[nabs-l] Trays
Serena
serenacucco at verizon.net
Sat Nov 15 00:08:26 UTC 2008
You're not he only one, Beth. I can't, either!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays
> Okay. aybe I look less competent than everyone else on this list
> ecause I can't even carry my own trays. But again, we don't have
> trays in the dining hall. The only place wher I could practice this
> skill is in the Oglesby Student Union which I don't know how to get to
> without miimal assistance. This is just hard.
> Beth
>
> On 11/13/08, Yolanda Garcia <yvgarcia at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Beth,
>>
>> I'm not sure if your cafeteria is 24 hours, but if it isn't, then one
>> suggestion might be is to go early in the morning when they first open
>> because hardly anyone is there. This way, you might be able to do some
>> exploring of the layout of your cafeteria. Perhaps another option is
>> going
>> with a friend during finals week when most people are scarce on the scene
>> as
>> well and try to gain orientation that way. When next semester comes,
>> you'll
>> feel more confident to navigate around the cafeteria with your new found
>> orientation to the lay out.
>>
>> Alternatively, you can always get anO&M instructor from your VR to come a
>> few days before class starts in January to help with orienting you to the
>> cafeteria. It's been my experience that when you have a better
>> understanding
>> of the layout, that it's easier to navigate independently with each
>> passing
>> time.
>>
>> To practice carrying a tray, I have taught my summer students at various
>> training programs to use a regular cookie sheet, and practice holding it
>> at
>> the side of your body either at waist level or slightly above the hip
>> while
>> firmly wrapping their hand on the side of the tray furthest away from
>> your
>> body. I've also seen some counselors show their students to carry the
>> tray
>> in front of their body just as long as your pinky, ring finger, and
>> middle
>> finger are wrapped around the side that is furthest from their body and
>> using the pointer finger and thumb to grip the cup in between. BTW, the
>> finger positioning also applies if you are carrying the tray at the side
>> of
>> your body. Ultimately, you decide what feels most natural to you. Then as
>> my
>> students became more comfortable with slowly walking around the apartment
>> using their cane and carrying the tray, I would incorporate an empty
>> plate,
>> cup, bowl, or silverware one at a time to gradually give the tray more
>> weight like they would experience in a cafeteria or fast food setting
>> while
>> still using their cane. I noticed that doing a dry run like this in the
>> privacy of our apartment made them feel more comfortable then practicing
>> for
>> the first time in a crowded food court with tons of people around. Maybe
>> you
>> assimilate some sort of practice exercise like this either in your dorm
>> room
>> or when you go home for Thanksgiving break.
>>
>> I think that once you can get a firm foundation of the layout of your
>> cafeteria and master carrying a heavy tray, that you'll be able to fuse
>> these techniques together and conquer this situation with confidence and
>> ease in no time. Hope this helps.
>>
>> Warmest Regards,
>> Yolanda
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 3:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays
>>
>>
>>> Well, there ain' no trays at Suwannee Dining Hall here at FSU, so I've
>>> had to rely on others o help me get my food. Also, there is so much
>>> chaos and the cash register is outside the line, not inside the line
>>> and in every station like in a normal cafeteria/buffet. You know what
>>> I mean?
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> On 11/13/08, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> At the NFB centers they teach you a method for carrying a tray with
>>>> your non-cane hand by holding the tray against your hip and wrapping
>>>> your fingers around the drink if there is one.
>>>>
>>>> It's also pretty easy to carry a single bowl or plate in your
>>>> non-cane hand. One trick is to put silverware, napkins, etc. either
>>>> under the plate or in your pocket.
>>>>
>>>> The only things I haven't figured out is how to carry a plate and
>>>> cup with no tray, or to carry multiple drinks on a tray.
>>>>
>>>> As for travel through a cafeteria or food court, this can be
>>>> challenging, but don't be afraid to ask questions of people around
>>>> you even if there is no staff member or friend to help. "Is this the
>>>> salad line? No? Could you tell me where it is please?"
>>>>
>>>> One lesson I've learned is to stop and listen whenever I go into a
>>>> place like a fast-food restaurant, store or cafeteria. Listen for
>>>> audible landmarks like the cash registers, drink dispenser, TV or
>>>> background music and use these landmarks to keep your bearings as
>>>> you move through the store.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if others have experienced this, but I think I've
>>>> sometimes gotten in the habit of walking into a store or restaurant
>>>> and just moving without stopping to listen. I think that
>>>> subconsciously I tend to keep moving so other people don't think I'm
>>>> lost or helpless. But what I've learned is that in the long run,
>>>> it's better to take that extra second to stop and listen--and be able
>>>> to move more smoothly through the place and find the door on the way
>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 11/13/08, melissa R. Green <graduate56 at juno.com> wrote:
>>>>> Carrie,
>>>>> Thank you for your willingness to sare ideas with us.
>>>>> I had a hard time carrying my tray in school.
>>>>> To be honest, I didn't use a cane in school, except for mobility which
>>>>> I
>>>>> only
>>>>> got every three to four months.
>>>>> My mom worked with me on how to carry things level.
>>>>> I can't do that as well as I used to because of the slight tremors in
>>>>> my
>>>>> hands.
>>>>> I didn't really get to practice carrying a tray much until I got to
>>>>> the
>>>>> colorado
>>>>> center.
>>>>> I knew how to do it.
>>>>> But I sure got practice doing it at a buffet, and at windys as well.
>>>>> Lol!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Melissa R. Green
>>>>> Hold on to your dream and it shall be well with you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of
>>>>> Carrie Gilmer
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:23 AM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Trays
>>>>>
>>>>> If you wrap your one arm around the tray, you can usually also hold
>>>>> the
>>>>> glass (if there is one) you can also feel with your arm if things
>>>>> start
>>>>> to
>>>>> slide on the tray and adjust, this leaves your other hand free for the
>>>>> cane.
>>>>> I have taught this to elementary age students whose arms are not that
>>>>> long
>>>>> and it still works, I believe this method is also taught at our
>>>>> training
>>>>> centers.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President
>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
>>>>> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
>>>>> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
>>>>> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Beth
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:44 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] friends
>>>>>
>>>>> You might be right, only you can't possibly keep the thing level. I
>>>>> am horrible at keeping stuff level at last.
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/6/08, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> I find trays are a disaster and make things harder with a cane. At
>>>>>> least
>>>>>> with a plate/bowl you potentially have a cane hand free.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Ashley Bramlett
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:38 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>> I've gone to public places alone but not concerts that I can recall;
>>>>>> although that is auditory and there is no reason why we should not
>>>>>> and
>>>>> enjoy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> Beth said she did not go to social events alone and my point is you
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> to some and get something out of it. She said
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "but there are other things I won't do alone either: going to
>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which is
>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I don't
>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one hand
>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we don't;
>>>>>>> and going to parties and such."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is much more fun to go to things in groups but I don't think
>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>> should stop you from going to concerts, restaurants and parties if
>>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>>> what you want to do.
>>>>>> No I have not been to a concert alone that i recall, but I did go to
>>>>>> a
>>>>> play
>>>>>> at school alone. I've also gone to restaurants alone; I get tired of
>>>>>> cafeteria food and the Ballston commons Mall is near. You can easily
>>>>>> walk
>>>>>> there from the metro and buy stuff from a regular restaurant or food
>>>>> court.
>>>>>> Some students go in groups; others go alone.
>>>>>> Yes I do agree that attending a sporting event such as basketball or
>>>>>> baseball would not be fun alone because with the crowd and noise it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> difficult to navigate and you cannot ask your friend what is
>>>>>> happening
>>>>> then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However there are other events that you can do alone. Now if Beth or
>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wants to go to events in groups because that is there personality
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> fine. But blindness should not get in the way. I for one would like
>>>>>> to
>>>>> go
>>>>>> to more things like concerts or out to eat with friends but they're
>>>>>> busy
>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> most are just acquaintances, not close friends.
>>>>>> But I'll go to things alone to enjoy if its something I really want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Albert Yoo" <albertyoo1 at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:08 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley, have you gone to a concert alone? It wouldn't be any fun to
>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a concert or sporting event alone to a basketball football baseball
>>>>>>> or
>>>>> ice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hockey game you wouldn't be able to get around easily at the stadium
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you were alone. Albert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 11:38:08 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beth,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm surprised you are uncomfortable going to restaurants alone.
>>>>>>>> Unless
>>>>> at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> buffett you don't have to carry food to the table. Your school is
>>>>>>>> weird
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> you don't have trays. Most cafeterias do. I think you should go to
>>>>>>>> concerts or restaurants if you want to. Sometimes people are not
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be around to take you. Yes its more enjoyable to go to restaurants
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> concerts with friends but it is certainly possible to do alone. You
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> step out of your confort zone. On a tour bus my mom and I
>>>>>>>> encountered
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> sight seer alone from London touring Boston.
>>>>>>>> So people do do big things alone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Beth"
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 10:49 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I looooooove bowling. I usually get my ten frames wrth with
>>>>>>>>> friends,but there are other things I won't do alone either: going
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> concerts, which I have to do anyway; going to restaurants, which
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> fine with me because I don't have to carry food around which I
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> know how to do because I don't feel I can hold a plate with one
>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>> and cane with another, and we don't have trays at FSU, no we
>>>>>>>>> don't;
>>>>>>>>> and going to parties and such. I absolutely refuse to make an
>>>>>>>>> appearence at anything alone. I'd rater be in a group of friends
>>>>>>>>> because I don't want to look weird or anything.
>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Serena wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd have to disagree about adapted sports, especially bowling. I
>>>>>>>>>> love
>>>>>>>>>> bowling! I'll admit, I'm not that great, but who cares. All
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> really have to do for me is help me line up so the ball will go
>>>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> middle of the lane. Also, my deaf-blind friend (I mentioned in a
>>>>> recent
>>>>>>>>>> post asking about AIM) loves every sport you can imagine,
>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>>> golf!
>>>>>>>>>> He can see a little bit, but I think he mostly functions as a
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> as far as sports. If you have any specific questions you'd like
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>> him, I'm sure he'd be happy to tell me info to help someone else!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Serena
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue"
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Great topic, guys. I have never had really close friends, either.
>>>>>>>>>> Een
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> college, I neer developed close relationships--more like people I
>>>>>>>>>> talk
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> during class, etc. Part of that is my personality--I get really
>>>>>>>>>> quiet
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> group and jsut naturally prefer to be in a smaller group of
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> or two ther people). I have joined the chess club--yes I am a
>>>>>>>>>> nerd
>>>>>>>>>> lol--and
>>>>>>>>>> really like it, and get along great with those folks. I go to the
>>>>>>>>>> Spanish
>>>>>>>>>> table once a weekand do other things--so I make a concerted
>>>>>>>>>> effort.
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> good to know that I am not the only blind perso nthat suffers
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>> feelings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would loe to get out there and be able to play soccer--the real
>>>>>>>>>> thing,
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> some weird modified ersion with sighted people helping. Does
>>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>> feel this way? If this is better addressed either off list or on
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> sports
>>>>>>>>>> and rec list, that's fine. Just thinking of extracurricular
>>>>>>>>>> activities
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to participate in but can't. Soemthign we don't
>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>> say--but
>>>>>>>>>> when we say that people can participate equally--I don't know
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> entirely true when it comes to sports. Granted I've never done it
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>>>>> they migh suggest, but bowling... I see no way of a totally blind
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> bowl and get the same experience out of it with out sighted help
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> diminishes the experience; likewise, beep baseball and the other
>>>>>>>>>> adapted
>>>>>>>>>> sports. Dont' mean to go off on something I don't know much
>>>>>>>>>> about,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> think it does fit in well with our discussion of social
>>>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> making friends, etc. Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --- On Mon, 11/3/08, Beth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Beth
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] freinds
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 1:56 PM
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are right, Carey. The people in question could be too busy.
>>>>>>>>>> However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years
>>>>>>>>>> old,
>>>>>>>>>> already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her? I
>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>> envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> know why he has her? Because he can immitate appropriate social
>>>>>>>>>> skills. I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a
>>>>>>>>>> prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex. The key to winning
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> successful date and keeping that significant other is having good
>>>>>>>>>> social skills. I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a
>>>>>>>>>> friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt
>>>>>>>>>> with,
>>>>>>>>>> the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a
>>>>>>>>>> blind student. I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a
>>>>>>>>>> friend.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't give up.
>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well
>>>>>>>>>>> liked
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on
>>>>> this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to
>>>>>>>>>>> initiate,
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood
>>>>>>>>>>> Star,
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I
>>>>>>>>>>> invited
>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade
>>>>> school
>>>>>>>>>>> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is
>>>>> often
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even
>>>>>>>>>> listen to
>>>>>>>>>>> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do
>>>>>>>>>> lunch on
>>>>>>>>>>> Thursday and catch up?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> walk
>>>>>>>>>>> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> skill
>>>>>>>>>>> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think
>>>>>>>>>>> sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and
>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> high
>>>>>>>>>>> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't,
>>>>>>>>>> just too
>>>>>>>>>>> busy!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Carrie Gilmer, President
>>>>>>>>>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>>>>>>>>>>> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>> NFB National Center:
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> n.net
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.2/1784 - Release Date:
>>>>> 11/12/2008
>>>>> 7:01
>>>>> PM
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> Click for free info on paralegal training and make up to $150K/ year.
>>>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nffPAmJ7a8hqQrom5qEFzVrLD1Xq2qatLnzmBGWKFcxvwUZ/
>>>>>
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