[nabs-l] Training

Peter Donahue pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net
Sat Nov 15 18:53:00 UTC 2008


Hello Beth and listers,

    Do it.

Peter Donahue
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food


I'll think about it, and I'll see if I can't get some sort of training.
Beth

On 11/15/08, Peter Donahue <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello Beth and listers,
>
>     Demonstrating to a potential employer that you are able to manage
> yourself and can get around a workplace independently is definitely a 
> battle
> all of must fight. There's no choice when it comes to this one. There are
> still members of the public who believe we're unable to get our own meals,
> or still worse use the bathroom independently. If we refuse to address 
> these
> skill sets not only are we selling ourselves short, but we're perpetuating
> and reinforcing these beliefs in the minds of the public. The thinking 
> goes
> like this, "If this blind lady can't get her own food how will she ever be
> able to get around my workplace or run errands." Those of us who choose 
> not
> to learn something as simple as serving one's self in a restaurant 
> cafeteria
> line will pay the price of failing to learn these valuable skills. I've 
> seen
> it happen all too often. Keep talking to Carlos about the LCB and discuss
> your situation with Pam Allen. All the best.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 10:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>
>
> Peter,
>
> I agree with Serena because, in my opinion, you've got to choose your
> battles.  I've chosen not t fight with the cafeteria scene so much,
> and I know it would help me navigate a workplace later in life, but in
> reality, academics and socialization are more important because with
> academics, you have to write papers and do research and stuff.  With
> socialization, you have to work hard at elegance and eating and food
> manners and even datng etiquette and so on.  It will win yourself a
> good partner in life and a good place in society.  That's just my two
> cents.
> Beth
>
> On 11/14/08, Peter Donahue <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Hello Serena and listers,
>>
>> Learning to negotiate the cafeteria successfully in school will enable 
>> you
>> to negotiate a workplace successfully later in life so they do go
>> hand-in-hand.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> Of course, ideally, we should learn how to carry trays and orient to the
>> cafeteria.  This is easier said than done, however, especially if you're
>> not
>> great with spacial orientation and/or you have really small hands.  The
>> cafeteria staff aren't "obligated" to help us with serving our food in 
>> the
>> sense that they owe us anything.  Having said that, if that's one of the
>> only accommodations we ask for, I think we deserve some slack about
>> getting
>> help with serving our food.  I'm sorry, but I just think dealing with
>> academics and socializing is more important in college than trying to
>> negotiate the cafeteria scene, especially if we know we're not great at
>> orienting etc.  It's not good to falsely act as if we can do something
>> independently if we know we need help.  Part of being independent is
>> knowing
>> when to ask for assistance.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 10:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>
>>
>>> Good evening everyone,
>>>
>>> Cafeteria personnel are not obligated to assist you with serving your
>>> food.
>>> Finding a competent blind person who can negotiate complicated room
>>> layouts
>>> including those with large areas to navigate and who can manage a
>>> cafeteria
>>> line independently and learning their, "Tricks of the trade"  is the 
>>> best
>>> medicine for this condition.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>> HiBeth.  I'm not sure how your cafeteria is set up, but if I go
>>> to the union, the central cafeteria in my college, which is very
>>> big, I go to the cash register and ask someone to assist me in
>>> walking around to each station.  Then they'll assist me with
>>> ringing me up and to find a table.  This cafeteria is really big.
>>> One big room with another room coming off of that and stairs
>>> everywhere.  There are balconies to sit  on, too.  It's a nice
>>> place, but I don't like the size.  Smile.  As far as what the
>>> woman said, it was uncalled for.  Was that an employee that told
>>> you this, or merely a student?
>>>
>>> Hope and Beignet
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:49:24 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>>The reason the staff doesn't want to help at peak hours is
>>> because
>>>>there are less of them doing more work.  The manager e-mailed me
>>> today
>>>>when I sent him an e-mail.  I e-mailed the location manager
>>> saying
>>>>what was up, and he said why not sit down and let somene just
>>> bring it
>>>>to me.  Well, not a bad idea.  But I'll have to let him know if
>>> it
>>>>appens again.  Honestly, I'm more worried about obtaining my
>>> basic
>>>>needs right about now.  But I could get my own tray, but then I'd
>>> have
>>>>to carry it around all day.  But then there's this one lady who
>>> said
>>>>the staff isn't paid to serve a blind customer.  I mean, not in
>>> that
>>>>manner we're talking about.  I didn't appreciate the woman's
>>> comments
>>>>as much as I don't appreciate bad service or help forthousands of
>>>>dollars in a meal plan contract, even though Florida's Division
>>> of
>>>>Blind Services sponsors it.  It's still thousands of taxpayer
>>> dollars
>>>>going into MY meal plan.
>>>>Beth
>>>
>>>>On 11/13/08, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Honestly, I don't see why the staff doesn't wanna help you.  I
>>> don't mean to
>>>>> say they owe you anything, but I even got help carrying my food
>>> in college.
>>>>> The trays they had there were simply too big for my really small
>>> hands.  I
>>>>> think some of the staff weren't too into the idea at first, but
>>> then, the
>>>>> managers got everybody on board.  I realize now, I could've
>>> bought my own
>>>>> tray before going to college, but I guess I felt orienting to
>>> campus and
>>>>> dealing with hiring and firing readers was more important than
>>> trying to
>>>>> deal with the cafeteria scene.
>>>
>>>>> Serena
>>>
>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Good idea.  I'll have to go sometime, but how do I deal with the
>>> staff
>>>>>> problem now whle I don't have a tray?
>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>> On 11/13/08, Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Beth,
>>>
>>>>>>> If you want to shop at Walmart or somewhere paratransit is not a
>>> good
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>> since they can be unreliable keeping you waiting or come before
>>> your are
>>>>>>> finished shopping.
>>>
>>>>>>> I'd suggest getting a ride.  Much easier said than done.  I had
>>> that
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>> too.  But ask around.  Ask your hall mates.  Ask your roommate
>>> if she
>>>>>>> drives.  Any friendly faculty or staff?  Once or twice a nice
>>> nursing
>>>>>>> faculty member gave me a ride to the mall.  If you do get a ride
>>> offer to
>>>>>>> pay gas or something for it.
>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 10:34 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Good idea.  However, I have a problem with the paratransit bus
>>>>>>>> service.  Since I live in a dorm, I can't necessarily designate
>>> a
>>>>>>>> place for the paratransit driver to pick me up.  Worse, I have
>>> to wait
>>>>>>>> an hour more than necessary for them to pick me back up.  Hence,
>>> my
>>>>>>>> friend and I have nicknamed it "dial-a-wait."
>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Linda Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Beth,
>>>
>>>>>>>>> What about paratransite?  I have a friend who schedules them to
>>> take
>>>>>>>>> him to a particular place, and then pick him up in their next
>>> window
>>>>>>>>> of opportunity.
>>>>>>>>> Courtney
>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Good thinking, Heather.  Trick is to get someone with a car to
>>> bring
>>>>>>>>>> me down there.
>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, H.  Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth,
>>>>>>>>>>> Take your own tray to the dining hall with you.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Places like Walmart have a huge array of tray choices, many of
>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> value for money.  Spend half an hour choosing the inexpensive
>>> tray
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> would most fit your needs.  Then, simply take your own tray with
>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> all of your meals in the dining-hall.  This will improve your
>>> ability
>>>>>>>>>>> to be independent and will lessen the ability of others to
>>> impact
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> day.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Heather Field
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank God I found this e-mail, Arielle.  I'm having a huge
>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> with staff at my dining hall who are not willing to help me get
>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> food or serve myself.  Since I have to hold a cane in my right
>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>> and since they don't have trays and since the stations are mre
>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>> one and helter-skelter and since nobody taught me how to
>>> maneuver
>>>>>>>>>>> around that big cafeteria, I'm blown away by how rude the staff
>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> behaved lately.  During peak hours, I'd walk in and say that I
>>> needed
>>>>>>>>>>> some help, and nobody helps out.  Their excuse?  Short staff.  I
>>>>>>>>>>> spoke
>>>>>>>>>>> to a few people on the matter, and since the cafeteria people
>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> willing to help, they say I should talk to a manager about this.
>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> wish I could see now so that I could serve myself and not have
>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hold
>>>>>>>>>>> a cane in my right hand and not have to be so precise with
>>> holding
>>>>>>>>>>> stand-alone bowls and stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> With serving food as a blind person there are two issues.  The
>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> is knowing what you're dishing out without seeing it, and the
>>> second
>>>>>>>>>>>> is properly maneuvering the food with the utensils from the
>>> serving
>>>>>>>>>>>> container to your  plate and ensuring that you are dishing up 
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> appropriate  amount.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To resolve the first issue, since touching is not really an
>>> option,
>>>>>>>>>>>> the best thing is to get information--either from people ahead
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the buffet line  or  from whomever is serving the
>>> food/setting up
>>>>>>>>>>>> the buffet.  Obviously once you've learned the  order of the
>>> buffet
>>>>>>>>>>>> once,  it'll be easier to go back and serve  oneself
>>> independently
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>  second time  around.  When serving "family-style"  and passing
>>>>>>>>>>>> dishes
>>>>>>>>>>>> around the table,  this problem is virtually nonexistent since
>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> easy to find  out  what someone has passed  you before serving
>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself from it.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The second issue, though, is one that does take practice to
>>> overcome
>>>>>>>>>>>> especially for those of us who  were not expected to serve
>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>> growing  up.  I wasn't really expected to do it at all until I
>>> was a
>>>>>>>>>>>> teenager, which  caused  me to struggle a bit with the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanics
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> maneuvering  the food and  gauging the portion size.  I 
>>>>>>>>>>>> improved
>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> this  a lot when I was in training at  the Louisiana  Center
>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> had to serve ourselves in a buffet line (with sleepshades  on)
>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever someone prepared their final cooking project (a meal
>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> forty).  Like others  have said, operating the utensils
>>> correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>> take practice and trial and error.  A training center is a 
>>>>>>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>>>> to develop this skill because everyone else is practicing, too,
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>> there's  not  as much pressure to do it exactly right or move
>>>>>>>>>>>> quickly
>>>>>>>>>>>> through the line.  You can also  practice by  cooking yourself
>>>>>>>>>>>> something and transferring some of it from one  container to
>>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>>> (even if  it's just Ramen or  Easy Mac).
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To gauge portion sizes  I've used two techniques.  One is  to
>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>> much weight I've added to  my  plate  or  bowl and how the
>>> weight is
>>>>>>>>>>>> distributed.  The other,  if it's  hot or steaming food that
>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> serving, is to hold my hand a little above the  plate/bowl and
>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> how much heat is rising from the food  and how far  it is
>>> spreading.
>>>>>>>>>>>> If I don't have enough food, there won't be much heat and it'll
>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> confined to one little spot instead of spreading across a wide
>>> area.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One more thing that hasn't come  up yet is the  proper way to
>>> serve
>>>>>>>>>>>> soup, stew, etc.  with a ladel.  I used to have the toughest
>>> time with
>>>>>>>>>>>> this  until I went to the center and figured  out what my
>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>> was.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because ladels have a sharp curve in the middle, when I was
>>> holding
>>>>>>>>>>>> the  handle straight, the bowl part of the ladel was actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> tipped
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I was spilling stuff before I could get it in the bowl.  I
>>> had to
>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out how to angle the handle (so it felt crooked) but the
>>> bowl
>>>>>>>>>>>> was actually facing straight up.  I think other  blind  people
>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been fooled by this deceptive handle as well which is why I
>>> bring it
>>>>>>>>>>>> up.  You can practice this by playing  with an  empty ladel
>>> (like
>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are doing dishes) and hold  the bowl in your non-dominant
>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>>> while  you  angle the handle with your dominant one.  Bend the
>>> handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> until you can feel that the  bowl is  facing straight up (even
>>>>>>>>>>>> though
>>>>>>>>>>>> the handle will feel crooked) and then try to remember the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> angle
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are serving things with the ladel.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/08, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pretty much use the same type of bowl, what we Italians call
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> maccaroni
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bowl, so i usually just put as much maccaroni in there as will
>>> fit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> love
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to eat! lol  Meat is trickier, but I usually have only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> piece
>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Hogue" <harryhogue at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serena, this may sound like a slightly silly question, but do
>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an appropriate portion size is by weight, etc, or by how many
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ladle-fulls,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon-fulls, etc? I have never really wanted to do that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to slowly anybody down or look awkward, etc.  But I agree
>>> it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> important...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 6:47 PM
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Harry
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always serve my own food at home with immidate family.  I
>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to learn that skill.  At family gatherings and on
>>> buffet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lines,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, others do it for me cause we're all having pretty 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things.  Even at State Convention this weekend, there was a
>>> survor
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast buffet to everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <harryhogue at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:39 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Serving Yourself Food
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the holidays coming up, here's an interesting point for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At family gatherings, or perhaps even at home with immediate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> family, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve your own plate or do you have someone else serve the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for you?
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for me, I have always had someone else always serve my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plate
>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>>> gatherings and at home with my family, for that matter, simply
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quicker and there is less risk of spilling, etc.  I am,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> however,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reminded
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> importance of being comfortable with this task by my Costa 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rica
>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>> host mother told me what was where and even made sure I knew
>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> serving
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spoon was--but I was not comfortable at 20 years old to serve
>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> own plate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to ask her to serve the plate for me.  This, then, set up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> precedent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person I needed help with getting food.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'm interested in hearing ohter thoughts.  And if we serve
>>> ourselves
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> home/at family gatherings, I then have to ask what is so
>>> diferent
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>> buffets,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially if you're with someone else and they're getting
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rice,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> chicken, potatoes, etc.  and it's likely you would want some 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just some thoughts to consider.
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harry
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>
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