From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 00:07:09 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:07:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question Message-ID: <4383d01d0903311707m3d5850d9n5120f28c4fe8625a@mail.gmail.com> Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some questions. Do you have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for you? I'm curious. Beth From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 00:11:37 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:11:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. Beth On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a >> position >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print >> category, >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they >> would put it. >> >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up into >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, >> but >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps >> it >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written >> test >> and a brief eye exam. >> >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education in >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue >> not >> more policies. >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> of Jim Reed >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >> To: MAB List >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea >> >> Hey all, >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me preface >> it >> with some personal background to set the context: >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I did >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, >> but >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. >> >> That said, my idea: >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which they >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. >> >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. >> >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential services, >> it >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if a >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of >> society >> or it's government. >> >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. >> >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as >> negitive. >> >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most >> inclined >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here is >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal >> troubles. >> >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. >> >> Thoughts? >> Jim >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >>  | >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 00:23:37 2009 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:23:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <63af025c0903311723r5cb582cbw180a1e1b316c2afb@mail.gmail.com> People usually do ask for a drivers license rather than an ID, but they *ALWAYS* mean an ID. "Drivers license" is just the thing said out of habit because *MOST* individuals are sighted and use their license as their ID. I have never once encountered a situation where a state ID wasn't as readily accepted as a drivers license when ID was needed, even if "drivers license" was the term used, nor have I met anyone who has expressed difficulty with this. I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you are classified as legally blind, there is obviously a reason for it, and even if you could "sneak by" an eye test at the DMV, you shouldn't *have* to sneak by at all. You shouldn't be on the road. Just get a state ID. I have a friend right now who is a high partial, but he is most definitely legally blind and it shows in day to day activities. He is convinced he can drive though and has even gone as far as buying a vehicle. He fully intends to "sneak by" on the vision test, or possibly even listen to the person before him and memorize the letters on the chart. I think he's a fool if he does this. Regardless of how high a partial you are, if you are labeled as legally blind and your vision is less than what is required to get a license, you *SHOULD NOT HAVE A LICENSE*. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Beth wrote: > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > Beth > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a > >> position > >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print > >> category, > >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they > >> would put it. > >> > >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on > >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like > >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up > into > >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as > >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, > >> but > >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps > >> it > >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written > >> test > >> and a brief eye exam. > >> > >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education > in > >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue > >> not > >> more policies. > >> > >> Mandarino > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf > >> of Jim Reed > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM > >> To: MAB List > >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea > >> > >> Hey all, > >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > preface > >> it > >> with some personal background to set the context: > >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > did > >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, > >> but > >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > >> > >> That said, my idea: > >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > they > >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must > >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. > >> > >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > >> > >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > services, > >> it > >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if > a > >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of > >> society > >> or it's government. > >> > >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say > >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > >> > >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as > >> negitive. > >> > >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > >> inclined > >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here > is > >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal > >> troubles. > >> > >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one > >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> Jim > >> > >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > >> > >> | > >> -Napoleon Bonaparte > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Apr 1 00:45:19 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:45:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090331204519.7vz60xb74soo400w@webmail.utoronto.ca> That's a really good point. I have a health card that counts s photo id but it's not universally accepted. I had to argue with this one guy who kept asking me for a driver's license. I have a white cane which I have to use all the time; there's no way I'd have a driver's license. But Courtney (and others too) have made some good points for low-vision potential drivers and that makes sense to me. I should have thought of that before I dismissed the whole idea of a visually impaired person as a driver as a bad idea. That was horrible grammar; I apologize. Sarah Quoting Beth : > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > Beth > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >> anybody who is blind should not be driving. >> >> >> On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a >>> position >>> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print >>> category, >>> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they >>> would put it. >>> >>> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on >>> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like >>> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up into >>> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as >>> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, >>> but >>> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps >>> it >>> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written >>> test >>> and a brief eye exam. >>> >>> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education in >>> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue >>> not >>> more policies. >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> of Jim Reed >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >>> To: MAB List >>> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea >>> >>> Hey all, >>> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me preface >>> it >>> with some personal background to set the context: >>> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. >>> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. >>> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I did >>> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, >>> but >>> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. >>> >>> That said, my idea: >>> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which they >>> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must >>> permanatly surrender their drivers license. >>> >>> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. >>> >>> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential services, >>> it >>> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if a >>> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of >>> society >>> or it's government. >>> >>> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say >>> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. >>> >>> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is >>> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as >>> negitive. >>> >>> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most >>> inclined >>> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here is >>> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal >>> troubles. >>> >>> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one >>> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>> >>>  | >>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > From dandrews at visi.com Wed Apr 1 01:01:45 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:01:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Enhances and Expands Newspaper Service for the Blind Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Enhances and Expands Newspaper Service for the Blind NFB-NEWSLINE® Online Offers Blind Individuals More Options for Accessing the News Baltimore, Maryland (March 31, 2009): NFB-NEWSLINE®, the largest electronic newspaper service in the world for blind and print-disabled Americans, is pleased to announce the launch of NFB-NEWSLINE® Online (www.nfbnewslineonline.org). Through NFB-NEWSLINE® Online’s groundbreaking features, subscribers can enjoy both an enhanced experience in reading the news and dramatically increased flexibility in how they choose to access their favorite publication’s content. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The NFB-NEWSLINE® service was created so that blind people could benefit from independent access to information on world news and hometown events in the same way that our sighted colleagues can. The new features offered by NFB-NEWSLINE® Online are an extension of this service’s ability to allow independent and flexible access to news content by the blind. I am very proud of the increased choice and convenience that initiatives like Web News on Demand and NFB-NEWSLINE® In Your Pocket provide to NFB-NEWSLINE® subscribers.” NFB-NEWSLINE®, which began operation in 1995, offers over 275 newspapers and magazines as well as TV listings to over 65,000 subscribers through a standard touch-tone telephone. With the exciting launch of NFB-NEWSLINE® Online, subscribers also now have unequaled access and unrivaled flexibility in how they read their favorite publications. Two new initiatives have been designed to enhance the subscriber’s experience: Web News on Demand and NFB-NEWSLINE® In Your Pocket. Through the easy-to-use Web News on Demand feature, subscribers can, for the first time ever, visit a secure Web site that offers a customizable reading experience and the ability to send entire publications, particular sections, or single articles to their e-mail inbox. NFB- NEWSLINE® In Your Pocket is a dynamic software application that a subscriber installs on his or her computer. Through an Internet connection, this software automatically downloads the publications of the subscriber’s choice to his or her portable digital talking book player (such as the Victor Reader Stream or Icon/Braille+). Jerry Moreno, a retired social worker from North Carolina, said: “I love being able to get my favorite papers onto my digital talking book player in such an easy and quick way! NFB-NEWSLINE® In Your Pocket does it all for me, so that I can go about my morning routine and by the time I’m done my papers are loaded and ready for me to read along with my cup of coffee.” David DeNotaris, director of Bureau of Blindness & Visual Services with the Pennsylvania Office of Vocational Rehabilitation, said: “As a husband, father, avid sports fan, and busy professional, I particularly appreciate the fact that Web News on Demand allows me to access relevant local, national, and international news quickly, simply, and independently.” To experience the groundbreaking features of NFB-NEWSLINE® Online, please visit www.nfbnewslineonline.org. For further information please write to swhite at nfb.org or call (866) 504-7300. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From blindhistory at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:16:14 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:16:14 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0903311707m3d5850d9n5120f28c4fe8625a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0903311707m3d5850d9n5120f28c4fe8625a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You do have to have an sd card in the stream for transfering books (to get any books on the stream for that matter). The stream conpanion is how you transfer books from your PC to the stream HTH. If you have any more questions you can email me off list at blindhistory at gmail.com Lora On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm > one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some questions. Do you > have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from > the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for > you? I'm curious. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From anna.parker.11 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:18:24 2009 From: anna.parker.11 at gmail.com (anna parker) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 20:18:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: <63af025c0903311723r5cb582cbw180a1e1b316c2afb@mail.gmail.com> References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> <63af025c0903311723r5cb582cbw180a1e1b316c2afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: i love this topic, in fact a few of my friends and i were talking about it a while back. I am consider blind and i can drive if i choose to, i dont drive for many reasons but i am. When i went to talk to the people about driving they told me because i have to drive with a lens, i woulnt be able to drive at night which for me means i cant drive much in the winter, im fine that, with training with the lens, i will be a fine driver someday, but right now i dont feel like i can trust myself because i havnt had a lot of training, Being able to drive is a big thing for me because i feel like i need the freedom. Not everyones case is the same and i agree if your consider blind and driving then you should have to pass a trest every year, im fine with that. thats just how i feel and know some of my friends dont feel the same On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Jamie Principato wrote: > People usually do ask for a drivers license rather than an ID, but they > *ALWAYS* mean an ID. "Drivers license" is just the thing said out of habit > because *MOST* individuals are sighted and use their license as their ID. I > have never once encountered a situation where a state ID wasn't as readily > accepted as a drivers license when ID was needed, even if "drivers license" > was the term used, nor have I met anyone who has expressed difficulty with > this. I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you are classified as > legally blind, there is obviously a reason for it, and even if you could > "sneak by" an eye test at the DMV, you shouldn't *have* to sneak by at all. > You shouldn't be on the road. Just get a state ID. I have a friend right > now > who is a high partial, but he is most definitely legally blind and it shows > in day to day activities. He is convinced he can drive though and has even > gone as far as buying a vehicle. He fully intends to "sneak by" on the > vision test, or possibly even listen to the person before him and memorize > the letters on the chart. I think he's a fool if he does this. Regardless > of > how high a partial you are, if you are labeled as legally blind and your > vision is less than what is required to get a license, you *SHOULD NOT HAVE > A LICENSE*. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Beth wrote: > > > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > > Beth > > > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > > > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > > > > > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > > >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a > > >> position > > >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print > > >> category, > > >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as > they > > >> would put it. > > >> > > >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on > > >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements > like > > >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up > > into > > >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as > > >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of > others, > > >> but > > >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, > perhaps > > >> it > > >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a > written > > >> test > > >> and a brief eye exam. > > >> > > >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education > > in > > >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true > issue > > >> not > > >> more policies. > > >> > > >> Mandarino > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > >> Behalf > > >> of Jim Reed > > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM > > >> To: MAB List > > >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea > > >> > > >> Hey all, > > >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > > preface > > >> it > > >> with some personal background to set the context: > > >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > > >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > > >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > > did > > >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was > injury-free, > > >> but > > >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > > >> > > >> That said, my idea: > > >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > > they > > >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must > > >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. > > >> > > >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > > >> > > >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > > services, > > >> it > > >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, > if > > a > > >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of > > >> society > > >> or it's government. > > >> > > >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would > say > > >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > > >> > > >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > > >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as > > >> negitive. > > >> > > >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > > >> inclined > > >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here > > is > > >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or > legal > > >> troubles. > > >> > > >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even > one > > >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > > >> > > >> Thoughts? > > >> Jim > > >> > > >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > >> > > >> | > > >> -Napoleon Bonaparte > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > > >> mail.com > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:57:51 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:57:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Slate is Here Message-ID: Dear students: Jennifer Kennedy, your Student Slate editor-in-chief, has produced the latest edition of the NABS publication, and it is a publication you should now read at: http://www.nabslink.org/slate_winter2009.shtml Those of you at the leadership seminar last weekend, remember her challenge to you to put out one more edition before the current NABS presidency leaves office. She's counting on you for articles, so read over the latest volume, get busy typing and encourage your fellow division members to put out an article or three! Best, Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Apr 1 02:28:22 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:28:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-sence legislative idea Message-ID: <20090401022822.13970.1862@web1.serotek.com> Jim, First of all, someone attempting to passs a driver's license exam with poor eyesight isn't going to make it. Unfortunately, governments are too willing to provide restricted licenses in those muddy cases where a person just barely meets the visual requirements. In that way, accidents related to blind drivers is just as much the government's fault for allowing said person to pass (even under special circumstances) as it is for the citizen. As to those who become blind but still carry a valid license, that license will eventually expire anyway thus eventually preventing someone from legally driving. In the meantime, I hate to say it, but an accident may be exactly what's needed to bring someone out of denial and alert them to the fact that they need to find alternatives to trying to live life as a sighted person. Original message: > Hey all, > The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > preface it with some personal background to set the context: > 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > did not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was > injury-free, but could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > That said, my idea: > Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > they qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, > must permanatly surrender their drivers license. > I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > services, it does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of > another, and, if a person chooses to do so, that person does not > deserve the support of society or it's government. > And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say > blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as negitive. > As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > inclined to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking > about here is saving the next generation of blind people from injury, > death, or legal troubles. > As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one > life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > Thoughts? > Jim > "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >  | > -Napoleon Bonaparte > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 02:54:40 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:54:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 03:01:58 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:01:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory Message-ID: Hello All. So next semester I will be taking Music Theory. I will be meeting with my professor soon to discuss the class. But I'm wondering what the resources are out there. How can I do dictations? I have heard there is computer software that allows blind students to put in music notation, does anyone know anything about that? I am a braille music reader, so that should not be a problem, but my big thing is notations, since we do a lot of labs involving dictations and such. Thanks so much. -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 03:29:55 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:29:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] CCTV question In-Reply-To: <794591.43306.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <794591.43306.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0D4B7B3C-40C3-48D4-84EC-EBA622399B46@gmail.com> What about underlining instead of highlighting? ----- Corbb O'Connor The George Washington University '10 B.A. Political Communication & Economics On Mar 31, 2009, at 5:33 PM, Jim Reed wrote: Hey all, I have a Merlin CCTV, I used to use the "color" mode, but have recently switched mainly to "enhanced-positive" (brighter white, blacker black) or "color select 3" (yellow on black background). The problem is, my highlighter barely (if at all) shows up. All the highlighter does on those modes (and all the other modes other than color or black and white (which don't work for me)) is make the text a slightly brighter shade of whatever color is being displayed. I am also color blind and cant see slight changes in color shade/ brightness. I have tried using different highlighter colors and I have tried turning off the CCTV light, and nothing works. The only thing that has given me any success has been using my hand to partially cover a CCTV light, thus casting a shadow over the page which then (sometimes and to various degrees) allows the CCTV to recognize and display the highlighter. Any suggestions? Thanks, Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity." | -Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 04:10:55 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:10:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know how good the Companion software is. But if you have an SD slot in your laptop, it's far quicker to just transfer directly between the computer and the card or use the USB cable. Your computer will view the Stream or SD card as one more storage device. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question You do have to have an sd card in the stream for transfering books (to get any books on the stream for that matter). The stream conpanion is how you transfer books from your PC to the stream HTH. If you have any more questions you can email me off list at blindhistory at gmail.com Lora On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm > one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some questions. Do you > have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from > the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for > you? I'm curious. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Lora _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 04:24:41 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:24:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: <63af025c0903311723r5cb582cbw180a1e1b316c2afb@mail.gmail.com> References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> <63af025c0903311723r5cb582cbw180a1e1b316c2afb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7949e5e20903312124o267bf47fs366f5ee2aaac3217@mail.gmail.com> Jamie, I can see your point, to an extent. Let me try and explain more coherently what I was getting at earlier. I attended the school for the blind in my state for several years. There, I encountered a number of teachers with partial vision who could drive, with restrictions. For instance, one teacher I encountered couldn't drive in inclement weather or at night, but had a provisional license because she could drive at other times. Whether it was "safe" for her to be driving really wasn't something I considered it my business to decide. She passed enough of the regulations that she qualified, as long as she abided by certain conditions, to receive a license. It's these individuals, already hedged about with restrictions that I worry about ideas like this affecting. Courtney On 3/31/09, Jamie Principato wrote: > People usually do ask for a drivers license rather than an ID, but they > *ALWAYS* mean an ID. "Drivers license" is just the thing said out of habit > because *MOST* individuals are sighted and use their license as their ID. I > have never once encountered a situation where a state ID wasn't as readily > accepted as a drivers license when ID was needed, even if "drivers license" > was the term used, nor have I met anyone who has expressed difficulty with > this. I'm not sure I understand the problem. If you are classified as > legally blind, there is obviously a reason for it, and even if you could > "sneak by" an eye test at the DMV, you shouldn't *have* to sneak by at all. > You shouldn't be on the road. Just get a state ID. I have a friend right now > who is a high partial, but he is most definitely legally blind and it shows > in day to day activities. He is convinced he can drive though and has even > gone as far as buying a vehicle. He fully intends to "sneak by" on the > vision test, or possibly even listen to the person before him and memorize > the letters on the chart. I think he's a fool if he does this. Regardless of > how high a partial you are, if you are labeled as legally blind and your > vision is less than what is required to get a license, you *SHOULD NOT HAVE > A LICENSE*. > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:11 PM, Beth wrote: > >> Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with >> the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a >> "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. >> It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. >> Beth >> >> On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >> > anybody who is blind should not be driving. >> > >> > >> > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a >> >> position >> >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print >> >> category, >> >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as >> >> they >> >> would put it. >> >> >> >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on >> >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements >> >> like >> >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up >> into >> >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as >> >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of >> >> others, >> >> but >> >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, >> >> perhaps >> >> it >> >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written >> >> test >> >> and a brief eye exam. >> >> >> >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education >> in >> >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true >> >> issue >> >> not >> >> more policies. >> >> >> >> Mandarino >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> >> Behalf >> >> of Jim Reed >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >> >> To: MAB List >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea >> >> >> >> Hey all, >> >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me >> preface >> >> it >> >> with some personal background to set the context: >> >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. >> >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. >> >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I >> did >> >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, >> >> but >> >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. >> >> >> >> That said, my idea: >> >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which >> they >> >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must >> >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. >> >> >> >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. >> >> >> >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential >> services, >> >> it >> >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, >> >> if >> a >> >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of >> >> society >> >> or it's government. >> >> >> >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say >> >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. >> >> >> >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is >> >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as >> >> negitive. >> >> >> >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most >> >> inclined >> >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here >> is >> >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal >> >> troubles. >> >> >> >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one >> >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. >> >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >> >> >> | >> >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 1 04:28:55 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 23:28:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002f01c9b282$5ff7d5a0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, I believe that's what non-valid drivers licenses are for. They've worked for Mary, myself and many others for years. The old saying holds true in this situation, "If it ain't broke why fix it."We have bigger legislative fish to fry than this. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. Beth On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a >> position >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print >> category, >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they >> would put it. >> >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up into >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, >> but >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps >> it >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written >> test >> and a brief eye exam. >> >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education in >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue >> not >> more policies. >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> of Jim Reed >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >> To: MAB List >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea >> >> Hey all, >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me preface >> it >> with some personal background to set the context: >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I did >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, >> but >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. >> >> That said, my idea: >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which >> they >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. >> >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. >> >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential services, >> it >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if >> a >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of >> society >> or it's government. >> >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. >> >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as >> negitive. >> >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most >> inclined >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here is >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal >> troubles. >> >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. >> >> Thoughts? >> Jim >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >> | >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From nijat1989 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 05:41:48 2009 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (Nijat Worley) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:41:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question References: <4383d01d0903311707m3d5850d9n5120f28c4fe8625a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Beth, Glad to see you have joined the club. You have to have a card in the victor streem because the Streem does not have on board memory. Everything is stored on the SD card. You can either use a SD Card adapter to transfer electronic files, by plugging the adapter with the SD Card in it into your computer's USB port, or you can use the USB cord provided with your Victor Streem to transfer files. If you use the cable, you have to make sure that the SD card is in the Victor Streem. I believe the Streem companion is a software that you can install on your computer to transfer files from your computer to the Victor Streem. I have never used it, or have had the need for it, so I don't know too much about it. Nevertheless, that is the basic purpose of the Streem companion software. I would be glad to answer anymore questions you may have about the Victor Streem Reader. Have fun with your Victor Streem Reader. It is a great piece of technology. At your service, Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question > Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm > one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some questions. Do you > have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from > the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for > you? I'm curious. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 04:49:28 2009 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:49:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: <002f01c9b282$5ff7d5a0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> <002f01c9b282$5ff7d5a0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <63af025c0903312149x3533f207l837ca3176a8658d@mail.gmail.com> I've actually never heard of someone who was in fact legally blind (visually acuity of no better than 20/200 with correction in the better eye or no greater than a 20 degree field of vision) obtaining a license. Maybe it's different in other states. I know of plenty of people with very low vision (but not quite to this point yet) who were able to legally obtain licenses, but to be fair they do not fit the legal definition of blindness, so any legislation preventing the legally blind from having a license wouldn't affect them. Perhaps the definition and the laws relating to it vary from state to state? On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Beth and listers, > > I believe that's what non-valid drivers licenses are for. They've > worked for Mary, myself and many others for years. The old saying holds > true in this situation, "If it ain't broke why fix it."We have bigger > legislative fish to fry than this. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:11 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea > > > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > Beth > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a > >> position > >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print > >> category, > >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they > >> would put it. > >> > >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on > >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like > >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up > into > >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as > >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, > >> but > >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps > >> it > >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written > >> test > >> and a brief eye exam. > >> > >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education > in > >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue > >> not > >> more policies. > >> > >> Mandarino > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf > >> of Jim Reed > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM > >> To: MAB List > >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea > >> > >> Hey all, > >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > preface > >> it > >> with some personal background to set the context: > >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > did > >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, > >> but > >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > >> > >> That said, my idea: > >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > >> they > >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must > >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. > >> > >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > >> > >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > services, > >> it > >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if > >> a > >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of > >> society > >> or it's government. > >> > >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say > >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > >> > >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as > >> negitive. > >> > >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > >> inclined > >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here > is > >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal > >> troubles. > >> > >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one > >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> Jim > >> > >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > >> > >> | > >> -Napoleon Bonaparte > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From nijat1989 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 05:58:28 2009 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (Nijat Worley) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:58:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Selphone question Message-ID: <09B8AD08816848DF8A4ED37EB1AA538C@Nijatash> Greetings everyone, Speaking of selphones, I have a question my self about my selphone. I use the Nokia N82 with the Talks software on it. I was wondering if there was a way to mute the phone when you are on the phone so that people on the other end of the line don't hear the back round noise. I use my selphone for NFB confrance calls, and I know it is really helpful to mute your phone so as to reduce the noise level, so that people on the confrance call can hear each other. Please let me know if you have a remedy for this problem. Thanks, Nijat From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Apr 1 05:38:30 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:38:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Selphone question Message-ID: <20090401053830.23369.63727@web1.serotek.com> Nijat, Most conference call software systems have a mute function. Usually, you can press star or pound to hear the list of commands you can use. Usually, "mute" is one of these commands. These commands apply to anyone who wishes to use them, and it need not matter which phone you use. Original message: > Greetings everyone, > Speaking of selphones, I have a question my self about my selphone. > I use the Nokia N82 with the Talks software on it. I was wondering if > there was a way to mute the phone when you are on the phone so that > people on the other end of the line don't hear the back round noise. I > use my selphone for NFB confrance calls, and I know it is really > helpful to mute your phone so as to reduce the noise level, so that > people on the confrance call can hear each other. Please let me know if > you have a remedy for this problem. > Thanks, > Nijat > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 07:18:19 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 02:18:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Selphone question References: <09B8AD08816848DF8A4ED37EB1AA538C@Nijatash> Message-ID: Usually there's a mute feature built into the conference itself and you just press something like star 6. In any event, just ask the person whose moderating the call. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nijat Worley" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:58 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Selphone question > Greetings everyone, > Speaking of selphones, I have a question my self about my selphone. I > use the Nokia N82 with the Talks software on it. I was wondering if there > was a way to mute the phone when you are on the phone so that people on > the other end of the line don't hear the back round noise. I use my > selphone for NFB confrance calls, and I know it is really helpful to mute > your phone so as to reduce the noise level, so that people on the > confrance call can hear each other. Please let me know if you have a > remedy for this problem. > Thanks, > Nijat > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 07:56:34 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 00:56:34 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904010056r1c6b969ao7150fbb638c71773@mail.gmail.com> Tell me more about this music braile thing, i got the impression there was no standard for it. Where can one learn it? Let me know what you learn for the theory stuff i would like to take pre-theory here soon. Thanks, Bill On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello All. > So next semester I will be taking Music Theory. I will be meeting with > my professor soon to discuss the class. But I'm wondering what the > resources are out there. How can I do dictations? I have heard there > is computer software that allows blind students to put in music > notation, does anyone know anything about that? I am a braille music > reader, so that should not be a problem, but my big thing is > notations, since we do a lot of labs involving dictations and such. > Thanks so much. > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 08:09:06 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 01:09:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Selphone question In-Reply-To: References: <09B8AD08816848DF8A4ED37EB1AA538C@Nijatash> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904010109u1ecfdd85vec06e2a208a561b4@mail.gmail.com> I think it is a valid question anyway, since confrence calls may not be the only sit in which you don't want your phone babbling at you. On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Dezman Jackson wrote: > Usually there's a mute feature built into the conference itself > and you just press something like star 6. In any event, just ask the person > whose moderating the call. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nijat Worley" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:58 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Selphone question > > > Greetings everyone, >> Speaking of selphones, I have a question my self about my selphone. I use >> the Nokia N82 with the Talks software on it. I was wondering if there was a >> way to mute the phone when you are on the phone so that people on the other >> end of the line don't hear the back round noise. I use my selphone for NFB >> confrance calls, and I know it is really helpful to mute your phone so as to >> reduce the noise level, so that people on the confrance call can hear each >> other. Please let me know if you have a remedy for this problem. >> Thanks, >> Nijat >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From len at gatamundo.com Wed Apr 1 09:06:25 2009 From: len at gatamundo.com (Len Burns) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:06:25 -0800 Subject: [nabs-l] Business Statistics Message-ID: <49D32E91.7030407@gatamundo.com> Hi All, I am not terribly active on this list, but I sure appreciate the your collective wisdom. I will be starting the first of two quarters of business stats in a week or so, and want to run by you how I intend to succeed in this class. I think I have it under pretty good control, but would love to hear thoughts and suggestions. I have the book in an electronic format, in this case Word. This I know will be minimally useful, since so much of this class will be graphs and curves. Knowing this well in advance, I got funding for somebody to work with me one on one, and for a note taker in class to copy solutions off the board. The person who will be assisting me is a masters student in economics, and has extensive background in business stats. He will reproduce any necessary graphs in a raised line format, and help me sort through the extensive information captured by my note taker. He will also assist with the mid term and final. I am fluent in literary braille, but it has been more years than you want to know since I messed with math. So, I will be learning as much as necessary to get done what my class requires. Any good references for the current rendition of Nemeth would be very appreciated. I was smart enough this quarter to take only one class that is highly visual. Last quarter I had two of them and it was horrific, never again if I can help it. Best, -Len __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 10:23:47 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:23:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904010056r1c6b969ao7150fbb638c71773@mail.gmail.com> References: <26d2dfeb0904010056r1c6b969ao7150fbb638c71773@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904010323o1f9d19dfq50c4b155f2943900@mail.gmail.com> I am also a Braille music reader, but I usually have my professor type out descriptions of everything. I use Lime Aloud so that I can do the part-writing involved. As far as dictations go, I have to do it out loud because there's no way I can carry around a big bulky laptop and the printer around all the time, so doing it out loud seems more practical. If you have any questions regarding music, feel free to contact me. I am a music major at FSU, so I cn answer your questions. Beth On 4/1/09, Bill wrote: > Tell me more about this music braile thing, i got the impression there was > no standard for it. Where can one learn it? Let me know what you learn for > the theory stuff i would like to take pre-theory here soon. > Thanks, > Bill > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Mary Fernandez > wrote: > >> Hello All. >> So next semester I will be taking Music Theory. I will be meeting with >> my professor soon to discuss the class. But I'm wondering what the >> resources are out there. How can I do dictations? I have heard there >> is computer software that allows blind students to put in music >> notation, does anyone know anything about that? I am a braille music >> reader, so that should not be a problem, but my big thing is >> notations, since we do a lot of labs involving dictations and such. >> Thanks so much. >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> President Barack Obama >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 10:25:44 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:25:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com> Cool. My friend says you can get a couple gigs for $15 at the local Publix here in Tally, but I'm in need of a high capacity storage card. Where can I get one? Any suggestions? Beth On 4/1/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > I don't know how good the Companion software is. But if you have an SD slot > in your laptop, it's far quicker to just transfer directly between the > computer and the card or use the USB cable. Your computer will view the > Stream or SD card as one more storage device. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question > > You do have to have an sd card in the stream for transfering > books (to get any books on the stream for that matter). The > stream conpanion is how you transfer books from your PC to the > stream HTH. If you have any more questions you can email me off > list at blindhistory at gmail.com Lora > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm >> one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some > questions. Do you >> have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from >> the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for >> you? I'm curious. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%4 >> 0gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Lora > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 10:47:26 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:47:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-sence legislative idea References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><49D26CF3.7050900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003101c9b2b7$3fe4fa60$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I also it sounds scary. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Macy McClain" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing li" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-sence legislative idea I also agree as well. I don't think blind people driving would be a good idea. > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:20:19 -0400 > From: spangler.robert at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-sence legislative idea > > I definitely agree. > I have no interest in having blind people driving. > > > Jim Reed wrote: > > Hey all, > > The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > > preface it with some personal background to set the context: > > 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > > 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > > 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > > did not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was > > injury-free, but could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > > > > That said, my idea: > > Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > > they qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must > > permanatly surrender their drivers license. > > > > I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > > > > Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > > services, it does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of > > another, and, if a person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve > > the support of society or it's government. > > > > And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say > > blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > > > > This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > > truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as > > negitive. > > > > As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > > inclined to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking > > about here is saving the next generation of blind people from injury, > > death, or legal troubles. > > > > As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one > > life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > > > > Thoughts? > > Jim > > > > "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > > > | > > -Napoleon Bonaparte > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/singinggirl017%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ SkyDrive: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_032009 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 10:49:39 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 06:49:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004301c9b2b7$8f515080$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Sometimes I am asked for a drivers license so I just give them my photo ID. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. Beth On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a >> position >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print >> category, >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they >> would put it. >> >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up into >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, >> but >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps >> it >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written >> test >> and a brief eye exam. >> >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education in >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue >> not >> more policies. >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> of Jim Reed >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >> To: MAB List >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea >> >> Hey all, >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me preface >> it >> with some personal background to set the context: >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I did >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, >> but >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. >> >> That said, my idea: >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which >> they >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. >> >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. >> >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential services, >> it >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if >> a >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of >> society >> or it's government. >> >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. >> >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as >> negitive. >> >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most >> inclined >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here is >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal >> troubles. >> >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. >> >> Thoughts? >> Jim >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >> | >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From pajohns1 at vt.edu Wed Apr 1 13:12:06 2009 From: pajohns1 at vt.edu (pajohns1 at vt.edu) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:12:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Summer internship at Federal Elections Assistance Commission Message-ID: <4591E8737762485E81FCB2633219935D@useripvq7z5u3t> Forwarded from another list. ----- Original Message ----- From: Baquis, David Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:44 AM Know a person with a disability who is also interested in elections administration? See paid federal internship opportunity: http://www.eac.gov/about/employment/research-internship-2009.pdf/attachment_download/file Circulated by: David Baquis Accessibility Specialist U.S. Access Board www.access-board.gov 202-272-0013 From freespirit328 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 16:55:17 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:55:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea References: <345856.63700.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0903311711p1a5d4807y78035ba0e7eecc7c@mail.gmail.com> <004301c9b2b7$8f515080$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <5ED78435BB6246359B327F66448CB086@Gateway> One time, years ago, I was buying some CDs at a music store. I paid with my credit card and was asked for my license. I told her I didn't have a license, just a state ID. She told me she needed to see my license, and if I didn't have one then I couldn't buy the CDs. I had to speak with the manager, and it did get resolved, but it was just rediculous! Jen Shop my AVON online store http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com Get healthy! http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com Contact me: Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-762-3258 (home) 401-644-5607 (cell) freespirit328 at gmail.com SKYPE: J.Aberdeen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea > Sometimes I am asked for a drivers license so I just give them my photo > ID. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:11 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea > > > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > Beth > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >> anybody who is blind should not be driving. >> >> >> On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a >>> position >>> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print >>> category, >>> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they >>> would put it. >>> >>> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on >>> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like >>> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up >>> into >>> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as >>> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, >>> but >>> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps >>> it >>> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written >>> test >>> and a brief eye exam. >>> >>> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education >>> in >>> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue >>> not >>> more policies. >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> of Jim Reed >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM >>> To: MAB List >>> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea >>> >>> Hey all, >>> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me >>> preface >>> it >>> with some personal background to set the context: >>> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. >>> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. >>> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I >>> did >>> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, >>> but >>> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. >>> >>> That said, my idea: >>> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which >>> they >>> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must >>> permanatly surrender their drivers license. >>> >>> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. >>> >>> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential >>> services, >>> it >>> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if >>> a >>> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of >>> society >>> or it's government. >>> >>> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say >>> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. >>> >>> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is >>> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as >>> negitive. >>> >>> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most >>> inclined >>> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here >>> is >>> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal >>> troubles. >>> >>> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one >>> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>> >>> | >>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From nijat1989 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 18:09:21 2009 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (Nijat Worley) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:09:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question References: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: www.negg.com has good high capacity cards. I found a 16 Gig card for 99 dollars. Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 3:25 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question > Cool. My friend says you can get a couple gigs for $15 at the local > Publix here in Tally, but I'm in need of a high capacity storage card. > Where can I get one? Any suggestions? > Beth > > On 4/1/09, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I don't know how good the Companion software is. But if you have an SD >> slot >> in your laptop, it's far quicker to just transfer directly between the >> computer and the card or use the USB cable. Your computer will view the >> Stream or SD card as one more storage device. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >> crowd."--Max Lucado >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question >> >> You do have to have an sd card in the stream for transfering >> books (to get any books on the stream for that matter). The >> stream conpanion is how you transfer books from your PC to the >> stream HTH. If you have any more questions you can email me off >> list at blindhistory at gmail.com Lora >> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Beth wrote: >> >>> Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm >>> one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some >> questions. Do you >>> have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from >>> the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for >>> you? I'm curious. >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%4 >>> 0gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lora >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 3979 (20090331) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From chriswright11 at verizon.net Wed Apr 1 17:54:42 2009 From: chriswright11 at verizon.net (Christopher Wright) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:54:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory References: Message-ID: <006001c9b2f2$f05fa6c0$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> Is dictation required as part of your coursework, or would you dictate parts because you use braille music? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Fernandez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: [nabs-l] music theory > Hello All. > So next semester I will be taking Music Theory. I will be meeting with > my professor soon to discuss the class. But I'm wondering what the > resources are out there. How can I do dictations? I have heard there > is computer software that allows blind students to put in music > notation, does anyone know anything about that? I am a braille music > reader, so that should not be a problem, but my big thing is > notations, since we do a lot of labs involving dictations and such. > Thanks so much. > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.35/2033 - Release Date: 3/31/09 1:05 PM > > From bcsarah.fan at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 18:09:25 2009 From: bcsarah.fan at gmail.com (Patricia) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:09:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory Message-ID: <7FA843790D854516BCAE2AF801E4ECC4@Athena> Hi Mary: I don't have any suggestions about the music theory. I am a musician but don't read braille music nor know much about music theory. However what i was going to suggest is that you may get some good suggestions from the music talk mailing list. I am subscribed to that as well and people are really helpful. the address is http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/musictlk_nfbnet.org Hope this helps. Patricia From cassonw at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 18:37:23 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:37:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904011137t7819d59fmd11fb9ff38d8f389@mail.gmail.com> you could probably buy four 4 GB cards for about 80 On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Nijat Worley wrote: > www.negg.com has good high capacity cards. I found a 16 Gig card for 99 > dollars. > Nijat > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 3:25 AM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question > > > Cool. My friend says you can get a couple gigs for $15 at the local >> Publix here in Tally, but I'm in need of a high capacity storage card. >> Where can I get one? Any suggestions? >> Beth >> >> On 4/1/09, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> I don't know how good the Companion software is. But if you have an SD >>> slot >>> in your laptop, it's far quicker to just transfer directly between the >>> computer and the card or use the USB cable. Your computer will view the >>> Stream or SD card as one more storage device. >>> >>> Joe Orozco >>> >>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >>> crowd."--Max Lucado >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question >>> >>> You do have to have an sd card in the stream for transfering >>> books (to get any books on the stream for that matter). The >>> stream conpanion is how you transfer books from your PC to the >>> stream HTH. If you have any more questions you can email me off >>> list at blindhistory at gmail.com Lora >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Beth wrote: >>> >>> Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm >>>> one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some >>>> >>> questions. Do you >>> >>>> have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from >>>> the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for >>>> you? I'm curious. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%4 >>>> 0gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lora >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 3979 (20090331) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From kylaann at cox.net Wed Apr 1 18:51:52 2009 From: kylaann at cox.net (Kyla Chittenden) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:51:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] re CCTV References: Message-ID: <46B94E5E1F5E4592BFEE9BEA12F5F3F2@kylaslaptop> I don't know if your CCTV has a pointer (a small red light projected onto the paper), but sometimes the pointer helps aluminate hard to read text and/or highlighting. I'm not sure why this works, and I kind of figured this out by accident because I really cant see the pointer, but it works just the same. If that doesn't work then I would try different colors of highlighters. HTH Kyla From Coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com Wed Apr 1 19:03:13 2009 From: Coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com (Coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:03:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory In-Reply-To: 26d2dfeb0904010056r1c6b969ao7150fbb638c71773@mail.gmail.com References: fba03a170903312001yaa8bf1bi46f036eb9ba98685@mail.gmail.com 26d2dfeb0904010056r1c6b969ao7150fbb638c71773@mail.gmail.com Message-ID: <20090401190315.A0B694A882EA@mytelespace1.mytelespace.net> From dandrews at visi.com Wed Apr 1 19:23:03 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:23:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com > References: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: SD and HDSC cards are sold in many places, such as Best Buy, Radio Shack, Target, Wal-Mart, Amazon.com and many other on-line sources. Dave At 05:25 AM 4/1/2009, you wrote: >Cool. My friend says you can get a couple gigs for $15 at the local >Publix here in Tally, but I'm in need of a high capacity storage card. > Where can I get one? Any suggestions? >Beth > >On 4/1/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > > I don't know how good the Companion software is. But if you have > an SD slot > > in your laptop, it's far quicker to just transfer directly between the > > computer and the card or use the USB cable. Your computer will view the > > Stream or SD card as one more storage device. > > > > Joe Orozco > > > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question > > > > You do have to have an sd card in the stream for transfering > > books (to get any books on the stream for that matter). The > > stream conpanion is how you transfer books from your PC to the > > stream HTH. If you have any more questions you can email me off > > list at blindhistory at gmail.com Lora > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Beth wrote: > > > >> Hi, guys. I just purchased a VR stream! Yeah yeah yeah, I know, I'm > >> one of you now with the VR streams, but I have some > > questions. Do you > >> have to have an SD card in the stream in order to transfer books from > >> the PC to the stream? Also, what does the stream companion do for > >> you? I'm curious. > >> Beth > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%4 > >> 0gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Lora > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > > virus signature database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature > > database 3979 (20090331) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From liz.bottner at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 19:57:09 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:57:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49d3c70f.1e068e0a.496f.ffffdddd@mx.google.com> Hi, Do you not mean www.newegg.com? Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From dandrews at visi.com Wed Apr 1 20:25:50 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:25:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Imagineering Our Future Message-ID: Graphic Logo: NFB Jernigan Institute Imagineering Our Future Issue 11 March 31, 2009 In this issue: block quote list of 12 items • Message from the Executive Director • What's New • Education • Braille Initiative • Straight Talk About Vision Loss • Technology Talk • From the Jacobus tenBroek Library • Independence Market • Parent Outreach • Spotlight on the Imagination Fund • NFB Calendar • Citation list end block quote end block quote Message from the Executive Director block quote end block quote Our moment in history has finally arrived! When Louis Braille first observed the night writing code used by the French military, I wonder, did he recognize what the moment meant and how that moment would be a turning point in history? From our perspective in time, all we can do is speculate about the events of that moment and how they unfolded into the code that gives knowledge to the blind even today. However, we know much about our current moment in time and the turning point that is represented by the launch of the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar—hosted at the NFB Jernigan Institute on March 26, 2009. On that day, we released The Braille Literacy Crisis in America: Facing the Truth, Reversing the Trend, Empowering the Blind. This comprehensive report discusses the current status of Braille literacy—the crisis facing the blind—and provides our unwavering commitment to eliminate that crisis through our Braille Readers are Leaders Literacy Campaign. Of course, the Louis Braille coin first went on sale that day, and over seventeen thousand coins were sold—suggesting that this coin is going fast. And the National Aeronautics and Space Administration announced that two Louis Braille coins will fly on the STS-125 mission scheduled for later this year to provide servicing to the Hubble Space Telescope (the subject of the book Touch the Universe). What will mark this moment that we cannot yet recognize? What will it feel like to look back when 20, 30, 50 percent of blind children are getting adequate instruction in Braille? What will the imaginative new opportunities be when we have spread an understanding of Braille farther and wider than ever before? It is hard to fully answer any of these questions. However, we know with absolute certainty that our complete dedication, our bold advancement, and our hopeful spirit will forever be part of what makes this moment special. Thank you for being part of this important moment in time with the National Federation of the Blind. Graphic: Signature of Mark Riccobono Mark A. Riccobono, Executive Director, NFB Jernigan Institute Featured NFB News ANNOUNCING: Baltimore's new main event—the Cane Event! Join the NFB for a night of decadence with all proceeds benefiting our Braille literacy programs! Ladies & gentlemen, now presenting Baltimore’s newest main event, The Cane Event. Open bar, live entertainment, seated dinner, and live & silent auctions. Cocktail hour begins at 7:00 p.m. Black tie optional. $120 a ticket. For info visit TheCaneEvent.org. Braille is Beautiful. Logos: Deque Systems, Inc., BG&L, MDG, Smith Barney, IBM, M&T Bank The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) will host the Cane Event on April 4, 2009, at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute in south Federal Hill. The event will celebrate the NFB’s Braille Readers are Leaders literacy campaign. More than four hundred friends, colleagues, and blind people from across the nation are expected to attend. The event promises an evening of food, fun, and entertainment—featuring a catered dinner, silent and live auctions, and live music provided by Marquise. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “We are pleased and proud to welcome our friends from the Baltimore community, as well as friends from all over the country, to our annual fundraiser the Cane Event. The evening will surely be a remarkable celebration and will serve to highlight the importance of Braille literacy to the general public. There can be no doubt that the ability to read and write Braille competently and efficiently is the key to education, employment, and success for the blind. Despite the undisputed value of Braille, however, only about 10 percent of blind children in the United States are learning it. Please join us at the Cane Event as we work together to reverse the downward trend in Braille literacy.” Proceeds from this event will go to the National Federation of the Blind’s Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, a national initiative to promote the importance of reading and writing Braille for blind children and adults. The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign kicked off in July of 2008 with the unveiling of the design of a commemorative coin in recognition of the two-hundredth anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille (1809-1852), the inventor of the reading and writing code for the blind that bears his name. On March 26, the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar was released by the U.S. Mint. Cane Event tickets may be purchased online ; by phone at (410) 659-9314, extension 2419; or by e-mail. Education Parent gives her young son a cane lesson The NFB Jernigan Institute is holding an innovative Beginnings and Blueprints Early Childhood Conference in collaboration with the National Organization of Parents of Blind Children and various professionals in the early childhood field from across the Mid-Atlantic region. This two-day conference (May 8-9, 2009) will bring together families of blind children and early childhood service providers, teachers, and professionals in order to disseminate the NFB's approach to best practices in early childhood education for blind children. Families of blind and low vision children ages birth to seven who live in the Mid-Atlantic region are encouraged to attend. Families who live outside of the area are also welcome to attend if they desire, but should be aware that some of the exhibits and information will be region-specific. Families can choose among a variety of breakout sessions on topics such as early movement, literacy, and active learning. Families will also be able to consult with early childhood professionals. Children are encouraged to attend with their parents as there will be activities with young blind children in mind. Please complete the online or print registration form and submit by April 15, 2009. For more information please e-mail Mary Jo Thorpe, Education Programs Specialist, NFB Jernigan Institute; call (410) 659-9314, ext. 2407; or visit the Beginnings and Blueprints page. Plans are in full swing for the NFB Jernigan Institute’s Braille Enrichment for Literacy and Learning (BELL) program in the summer of 2009. The BELL program is designed to serve as a demonstration program that provides intensive Braille instruction to low vision children during the summer months. Statistics show that only 10 percent of blind and low vision children receive Braille instruction. Therefore, the NFB aims to promote intensive summer programs, led by its affiliate members, to help improve the amount of exposure to Braille by young blind and low vision children, raise literacy levels of this population, and stir up greater interest in Braille education. This pilot program will be modeled after the successful 2008 BELL Program led by the NFB of Maryland state affiliate. The NFB Jernigan Institute will expand this program into Wisconsin and Georgia as well during the summer of 2009. The program dates are: Wisconsin, June 15-26; Georgia, July 13-24; and Maryland, August 3-15. The states will host the Jernigan Institute’s BELL Core Team during the two weeks of their programs. BELL Core Team members will facilitate a variety of fun, hands-on lessons ranging from group activities to one-on-one instruction designed to teach Braille to low vision children ages four to twelve. Children will also be mentored by older blind role models with positive attitudes about blindness and visit various field trip sites. The NFB Jernigan Institute plans to make the curriculum from this program available to other states for future use in developing their own BELL summer programs. Braille Initiative Photo: Coin launch ceremony On March 26, 2009, the official launch ceremony of the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar took place at the NFB Jernigan Institute. More than three hundred NFB members and friends, as well as variety of special guests and speakers including Dr. Abraham Nemeth, Dr. Marc Maurer, Dr. Frederic K. Schroeder, and U.S. Mint Director Ed Moy, gathered in the Members Hall to celebrate this special day and to have the first opportunity to purchase their piece of the Braille literacy movement. During the launch program guests were treated to the reading of a very special resolution by MarChé Daughtry, Brandon Pickrel, and Jason Polansky. Additionally, White House Representative Kareem Dale was presented with a copy of The Braille Literacy Crisis in America: Facing the Truth, Reversing the Trend, Empowering the Blind, and Dr. Joyce Winterton of NASA announced that the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar will be the first commemorative coin to travel to space. If you missed the event or just want to relive it, you can watch or listen to the coin launch program, including speeches from Dr. Maurer and U.S. Mint Director Ed Moy. In addition to the formal launch ceremony in Baltimore, we had significant proclamations from over thirty governors or state legislatures, and thousands of members of the National Federation of the Blind gathered in about fifty towns and cities across America to celebrate this monumental day in history. Many met with public officials and participated in ceremonies to demonstrate our commitment to Braille literacy and full participation in society. Fifty thousand Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollars have been sold as of the publication of this newsletter. To purchase yours, please visit the U.S. Mint Web site. For more information about Braille, the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Siver Dollar, and the NFB's other Braille literacy efforts, please visit Braille.org, join the literacy campaign mailing list, or follow on the social networking site Twitter. Straight Talk About Vision Loss The 2008 scholarship class of the NFB. Photo: 2008 scholarship class of the NFB The Straight Talk About Vision Loss team presents Straight Talk About Vision Loss Episode 24. Anil Lewis discusses the NFB scholarship program with the Jernigan Institute executive director. TMarch 31 is the last day to apply for thirty NFB scholarships, ranging from $3,000 to $12,000, to be awarded at the NFB National Convention in July. Anil Lewis is chairman of the NFB scholarship committee as well as a national board member. Product and Access Technology Talk The NFB Jernigan Institute Access Technology team provides ongoing access technology awareness services for universities and colleges in the area. On March 3, Dr. Jonathan Lazar, associate professor in the Department of Computer and Information Sciences at Towson University, and a group of his students visited the International Braille and Technology Center for the Blind (IBTC). The team has reached out to groups of young engineers and computer scientists to help further accessibility in the next generation. As mentioned as an upcoming event in the previous newsletter, the Access Technology team attended and made three presentations at the California State University at Northridge’s annual Technology and Persons with Disabilities Conference this month. In addition to the preparations for this conference, they received a tech tip from Adobe on accessible PDFs and contributed three new posts to the AT blog—a final report on the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, a post on the Plextalk Pocket digital talking book player, and a write-up of the new KNFB Reader Mobile software update. The team also added a list of manufacturers of CCTVs —digital magnification devices using a camera and screen—to their technology list, broadening the resources available for low vision visitors to the site. From the tenBroek Library Several major events have happened recently or are about to happen at the National Center. The tenBroek Library wants to help you enjoy them, even if you cannot be here. On March 26, of course, the Jernigan Institute hosted the official unveiling of the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar. The tenBroek Library contributed some interesting items to be viewed (visually and tactilely) at the celebration, including several historic books in tactile codes other than Braille. We are especially pleased to have arranged to borrow, for this event, an extremely rare copy of the embossed pamphlet of 1829 in which Louis Braille first published the Braille code. For more information, take a look at the annotated bibliography of books on Louis Braille and the development of the Braille Code housed in the tenBroek Library. April 4 is the date of the Cane Event, a gala dinner party that will no doubt be the main event of the Mid-Atlantic social season. To honor the cane, the tenBroek Library presents this link to the NFB’s publication, Tom Bickford’s The Care and Feeding of the Long White Cane. Finally, the Jernigan Institute is presenting the second Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 17. The Obama administration will be represented by an official with great responsibility for programs related to blindness and other disabilities. The symposium will be of concern to lawyers and all interested in disability rights. More than fifty years ago, in his speech Within the Grace of God, Jacobus tenBroek laid out key arguments regarding blindness that have become fundamental to the disability rights movement. Please join the tenBroek Library as we celebrate Louis Braille, the long white cane, and Jacobus tenBroek! Independence Market The upcoming Cane Event celebration highlights the long white cane as a key to independence and freedom for blind people. With good mobility skills blind people gain control over their own movements and can travel freely and independently in both familiar and unfamiliar environments. Thomas Bickford's Care and Feeding of the Long White Cane (mentioned above) is a self-help guide that encourages blind individuals to grow their cane travel independence. The author shares his own experiences about learning how to use a long white cane and traveling independently in a variety of settings. The reader learns about choosing a cane, negotiating steps, walking down a city sidewalk and using landmarks as travel cues, making use of various modes of public transportation, and traveling in adverse weather conditions and in rough terrain. This practical how-to guide, encouraging blind individuals new to cane travel to venture out with their long white cane, is available from the Independence Market in print, Braille, and four-track cassette. The Independence Market also sells books geared toward teaching independent cane travel skills to children and youth: Independent Movement and Travel in Blind Children: A Promotion Model (by Joseph Cutter) is full of practical tips and strategies about how parents and teachers can help a blind child develop normal and independent movement. It includes detailed instructions and information about canes—what kind, when a child should get one, etc.—and introduces the "Bottom-Up" approach to teaching orientation and mobility to young children of developmental ages birth through kindergarten. Modular Instruction for Independent Travel for Students Who Are Blind or Visually Impaired (by Doris Willoughby and Sharon Monthei) is a practical guide for the mobility teacher, classroom teacher, or parent, that offers a thousand creative suggestions for teaching cane travel to preschool through high school blind and low vision students in every possible setting. And, of course, the Independence Market also has long white canes available in all sizes. Parent Outreach In honor of the two-hundredth birthday of Louis Braille, we are issuing a special edition of Future Reflections, our quarterly magazine for parents and teachers of blind children. The "Special Issue: A Celebration of Braille" edition features a brief biography of Louis Braille by children's author Deborah Kent-Stein; a fascinating historical timeline about the "War of the Dots"; a playful poem about Braille from deaf-blind author, John Lee Clark; descriptions of innovative Braille programs; inspiring stories that celebrate the impact Braille has had in the lives of ordinary blind people; and much more. The edition will be available online by mid-to-late-April and in print by the end of the month. Future Reflections has a print format domestic circulation of over fourteen thousand, and thousands more read it internationally and in other formats. The magazine informs, inspires, raises expectations, and provides a blueprint for change and action to improve the lives and education of blind and low vision children. Spotlight on the Imagination Fund Photo: NY Tweens and Teens program The Imagination Fund provides support for the outreach efforts of local Federation chapters and affiliates throughout the United States as well as the research, technology, and education programs and initiatives of the NFB Jernigan Institute. The Imagination Fund was established January 2004 with the Grand Opening of our NFB research and training institute. On May 17 and 18 of last year the National Federation of the Blind of New York and its Parents of Blind Children Division (POBC) held a two-day seminar for children, parents, educators, and other interested parties. The emphasis was on “tweens and teens.” The seminar addressed all aspects of the lives of blind children and focused on the changes in their needs and their dreams and goals. All aspects of their development were considered as presenters interacted with the participants. Every group was challenged concerning the need for and the use of such things as Braille, the long white cane, and adaptive technology. Attendees discussed the wide-ranging possibilities of career choices for young blind people. There was much hands-on exposure to Braille and alternative techniques. A cane walk in Midtown Manhattan was also included. The Tweens and Teens Seminar was supported by the fundraising efforts of the NFB as part of the Imagination Fund grant program. NFB Calendar 2009 Year of Louis Braille's Bicentennial, launch of the U.S. Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, and kickoff of the NFB Braille Literacy Campaign. March 26, 2009 U.S. Mint began sales of the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar. March 31, 2009 Deadline to apply for thirty NFB scholarships, ranging from $3,000 to $12,000, to be awarded at National Convention in July. Get more information or fill out an application online. Image: The Cane Event banner April 4, 2009 The Cane Event: Celebrating Braille Readers are Leaders, Members Hall, NFB headquarters, Baltimore. Image: Whozit wearing a top hat Break out your top hat and be a part of the Cane Event: Celebrating Braille Readers are Leaders, at the NFB Jernigan Institute. Please join us the evening of Saturday, April 4, for entertainment, food, and silent and live auctions. Support the Jernigan Institute and have fun. Visit thecaneevent.org for details and to buy your tickets online. You can be a Braille Literacy Champion! This ticket package option includes recognition for you or your company, two Cane Event tickets, and one Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar, all for $500. April 15, 2009 Jacob Bolotin Awards online application and nomination deadline. April 15, 2009 Deadline to sign up for Beginnings and Blueprints Early Childhood Conference. Sign up online or download a print registration form. April 17, 2009 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium. Register online. View the agenda. May 8-9, 2009 Beginnings and Blueprints Early Childhood Conference, open to parents of blind children ages birth to seven. Part of NFB Jernigan Institute's Early Childhood Education initiative. May 30, 2009 Pre-registration cut-off for NFB 2009 National Convention. When purchased online before May 31st, the pre-registration fee for convention is $15 ($20 on-site) and the cost of a banquet ticket is $35 ($40 on-site). June 8-13, 2009 Braille Enrichment for Literacy and Learning (BELL) program Core Team Member training at NFB Jernigan Institute. June 15-26, 2009 Braille Enrichment for Literacy and Learning (BELL) program in Wisconsin. July 3-8, 2009 NFB 2009 National Convention, Marriott at the Renaissance Center, Detroit, Michigan. For reservations, write directly to the Detroit Marriott Renaissance Center, 100 Renaissance Center, Detroit, Michigan 48243, or call 1-800-266-9432. Information for sponsors, exhibitors, and other attendees is online. Now available—discounted online pre-registration and banquet ticket sales. July 13-24, 2009 Braille Enrichment for Literacy and Learning (BELL) program in Georgia. July 6, 2009 Motor City March for Independence, A Walk for Opportunity, Detroit, Michigan. Register to participate in the third annual March in Detroit. Hear an audio report on last year's Dallas March. July 26-August 1, 2009 NFB Youth Slam: A STEM Leadership Academy, University of Maryland, College Park. View a video about this exciting event! August 3-15, 2009 Braille Enrichment for Literacy and Learning (BELL) program in Maryland. Citation block quote A good education is the key to success, and every American deserves an equal opportunity to receive a good education. Inherent to being educated is being literate. The ability to read and write means access to information that, in turn, leads to understanding and knowledge. And knowledge is power—the power to achieve, function in the family, thrive in the community, succeed in a job, and contribute to society. Nearly 90 percent of America’s blind children are not learning to read and write because they are not being taught Braille or given access to it. There is a Braille literacy crisis in America. The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States, is taking swift action to reverse this trend. This year, 2009, marks the 200th anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille, inventor of the system that allows blind people to read and write independently. Coinciding with this anniversary, the NFB has announced specific action to address the education of America’s blind children so that every blind child who has a need for Braille will have the opportunity to learn it. In this report to the nation on the state of Braille literacy in America, the NFB examines the history and decline of Braille education, addresses the crisis facing the blind today and key factors driving it, and proposes a number of action steps to double the Braille literacy rate by 2015 and eventually reverse it altogether. — The Braille Literacy Crisis in America: Facing the Truth, Reversing the Trend, Empowering the Blind, A Report to the Nation by the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, March 26, 2009 Back to Top Thank you for reading the NFB Jernigan Institute's Imagineering Our Future. block quote end block quote end Mentor Trevor Attenberg leads campers along the nature trail Photo: Group on white water raft Support the Jernigan Institute through the Imagination Fund Photo: Young woman playing flute Interesting links: Archive of Straight Talk about Vision Loss videos National Center for Blind Youth in Science Access Technology Tips Photo: Youth practicing martial art Blogs: Access Technology Voice of the Nation's Blind Photo: Senior couple Publication archives: Voice of the Diabetic Future Reflections Braille Monitor Photo: Mom and son take a moment and a hug Graphic Logo: National Federation of the Blind Visit us at nfb.org Photo: Blind little girl with cane Photo: Blind youth reading Braille book Photo: Blind girl examining model of constellations Photo: Blind boy with tactile globe Blind Teens Carry the 2007 Youth March for Independence Banner Imagine a Future Full of Opportunity Jernigan Institute, National Federation of the Blind, 1800 Johnson Street, Baltimore, MD 21230 (410) 659-9314 Fax (410) 659-5129 E-mail JerniganInstitute at nfb.org Visit us at www.nfb.org Better Business Bureau logo American Institute of Philanthropy logo The National Federation of the Blind meets the rigorous Standards for Charity Accountability set forth by the BBB Wise Giving Alliance and is Top-Rated by the American Institute of Philanthropy. Forward this newsletter. If this issue was forwarded to you and you'd like to subscribe, please e-mail JerniganInstitute at nfb.org. From Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com Wed Apr 1 20:59:13 2009 From: Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com (Rachel Becker) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:59:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille math books Message-ID: Have you had success getting Braille math books? How long does it take to get a book Brailled typically? How you do this and will the state agency pay for it? What can you do when professors are not sure which books they are using? Rachel From davidb521 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 21:49:03 2009 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David Bouchard) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:49:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea Message-ID: <49d3e139.2035640a.1b63.7256@mx.google.com> Perhaps we are discussing someone who goes legally blind, but has obtained a license before they became blind. David -----Original Message----- From: Jamie Principato Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea I've actually never heard of someone who was in fact legally blind (visually acuity of no better than 20/200 with correction in the better eye or no greater than a 20 degree field of vision) obtaining a license. Maybe it's different in other states. I know of plenty of people with very low vision (but not quite to this point yet) who were able to legally obtain licenses, but to be fair they do not fit the legal definition of blindness, so any legislation preventing the legally blind from having a license wouldn't affect them. Perhaps the definition and the laws relating to it vary from state to state? On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Beth and listers, > > I believe that's what non-valid drivers licenses are for. They've > worked for Mary, myself and many others for years. The old saying holds > true in this situation, "If it ain't broke why fix it."We have bigger > legislative fish to fry than this. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:11 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea > > > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > Beth > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a > >> position > >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print > >> category, > >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as they > >> would put it. > >> > >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on > >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements like > >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up > into > >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as > >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of others, > >> but > >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, perhaps > >> it > >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a written > >> test > >> and a brief eye exam. > >> > >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education > in > >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true issue > >> not > >> more policies. > >> > >> Mandarino > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > >> Behalf > >> of Jim Reed > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM > >> To: MAB List > >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea > >> > >> Hey all, > >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > preface > >> it > >> with some personal background to set the context: > >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > did > >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was injury-free, > >> but > >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > >> > >> That said, my idea: > >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > >> they > >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must > >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. > >> > >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > >> > >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > services, > >> it > >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, if > >> a > >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of > >> society > >> or it's government. > >> > >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would say > >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > >> > >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as > >> negitive. > >> > >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > >> inclined > >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here > is > >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or legal > >> troubles. > >> > >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even one > >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> Jim > >> > >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > >> > >> | > >> -Napoleon Bonaparte > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > >> mail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 22:02:06 2009 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 18:02:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea In-Reply-To: <49d3e139.2035640a.1b63.7256@mx.google.com> References: <49d3e139.2035640a.1b63.7256@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <63af025c0904011502h5b14862y71a1a05cbc7f1801@mail.gmail.com> Well like I said, if your vision becomes such that you wouldn't be able to obtain a license for the first time like this, you shouldn't be allowed to keep your license if you got one before losing vision. It really is common sense. If it's a matter of pride, there are so many other things a person can be proud of besides driving. If you feel like less of a person when not behind the wheel of a car, maybe it's time to have a look at life and learn what really makes someone a whole person. I'm sure this hypothetical person would feel like even less if they killed someone because they were too proud to admit they were blind. On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 5:49 PM, David Bouchard wrote: > Perhaps we are discussing someone who goes legally blind, but has obtained > a license before they became blind. > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Principato > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:49 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea > > I've actually never heard of someone who was in fact legally blind > (visually > acuity of no better than 20/200 with correction in the better eye or no > greater than a 20 degree field of vision) obtaining a license. Maybe it's > different in other states. I know of plenty of people with very low vision > (but not quite to this point yet) who were able to legally obtain licenses, > but to be fair they do not fit the legal definition of blindness, so any > legislation preventing the legally blind from having a license wouldn't > affect them. Perhaps the definition and the laws relating to it vary from > state to state? > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 12:28 AM, Peter Donahue >wrote: > > > Hello Beth and listers, > > > > I believe that's what non-valid drivers licenses are for. They've > > worked for Mary, myself and many others for years. The old saying holds > > true in this situation, "If it ain't broke why fix it."We have bigger > > legislative fish to fry than this. > > > > Peter Donahue > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Beth" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A common-since legislative idea > > > > > > Blind people should have some form of ID, and the problem I have with > > the surrender of a driver's license is this: everyone asks for a > > "driver's license." Not necessarily a Florida Identification Card. > > It has a number and that on it like a license, but stll not a license. > > Beth > > > > On 3/31/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > > > anybody who is blind should not be driving. > > > > > > > > > On 3/31/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > > >> I have had a few friends that are legally blind, but were not in a > > >> position > > >> of degenerative eye sight. Of course they were of the large print > > >> category, > > >> but never the less unattractive glasses and additional equipment as > they > > >> would put it. > > >> > > >> My only issue with this is that it is yet another thing based on > > >> generalizations. I understand the point, but I thin that statements > like > > >> these am what corner us into our own issues. We are easily caught up > > into > > >> what works for one or a few, and forget that blindness is just as > > >> individualized as personality. I am completely for the safety of > others, > > >> but > > >> even when it comes to elderly people and their driver's license, > perhaps > > >> it > > >> would be more appropriate to have them do something more than a > written > > >> test > > >> and a brief eye exam. > > >> > > >> Unfortunately, there is no expectation to even have driver's education > > in > > >> Georgia, so in my opinion the established safety nets are the true > issue > > >> not > > >> more policies. > > >> > > >> Mandarino > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > > >> Behalf > > >> of Jim Reed > > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:02 PM > > >> To: MAB List > > >> Subject: [nabs-l] a common-sence legislative idea > > >> > > >> Hey all, > > >> The following is not going to sit well with some of you so let me > > preface > > >> it > > >> with some personal background to set the context: > > >> 1. By 2005 I was legaly blind with RP. > > >> 2. In the summer of 2007 I bought a car. > > >> 3. In summer of 2008, I wrecked said car, with a passenger, because I > > did > > >> not see the sharp turn ahead. Fortunatly, the accident was > injury-free, > > >> but > > >> could have just as easily been a fatal roll-over. > > >> > > >> That said, my idea: > > >> Blind people, contingent upon recieving any government services which > > >> they > > >> qualify for,(in part, or in whole) as a result of being blind, must > > >> permanatly surrender their drivers license. > > >> > > >> I know some will say this is cohersive, and it is. > > >> > > >> Some will say it prevents blind people from recieving essential > > services, > > >> it > > >> does; but, no one has the right to endanger the life of another, and, > if > > >> a > > >> person chooses to do so, that person does not deserve the support of > > >> society > > >> or it's government. > > >> > > >> And lastly, some will make a free-choice arguement. To them I would > say > > >> blindness isnt a choice, its a fact. > > >> > > >> This is one of those "father knows best" type situations where what is > > >> truely best for the individual is percieved by that individual as > > >> negitive. > > >> > > >> As it seems likely that it is the younger blind people who are most > > >> inclined > > >> to make choices similar to mine, what we are really talking about here > > is > > >> saving the next generation of blind people from injury, death, or > legal > > >> troubles. > > >> > > >> As negitive as this may seem to some blind people, if it saves even > one > > >> life, blind or sighted, then it was worth it. > > >> > > >> Thoughts? > > >> Jim > > >> > > >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > >> > > >> | > > >> -Napoleon Bonaparte > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > > >> mail.com > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From nijat1989 at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 23:05:58 2009 From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (Nijat Worley) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:05:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question References: <4383d01d0904010325w5abd191i27e252783f1c6cd3@mail.gmail.com> <49d3c70f.1e068e0a.496f.ffffdddd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, that is what I ment. www.newegg.com Nijat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] victor reader stream question Hi, Do you not mean www.newegg.com? Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com From fowlers at syix.com Wed Apr 1 23:37:16 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:37:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Petition to improve the accessibility of Myspace Message-ID: Dear friends, The California Association of Blind Students Social Networking Committee has created a petition to improve the accessibility of Myspace. It has identified several issues which complicate the use of Myspace.com for users of screen reading software. Below you will find the URL which will allow you to sign the online petition. http://www.petitiononline.com/NFBC/petition.html If you prefer to received the print version of the petition please email me offlist. fowlers at syix.com Sincerely Angela Fowler CABS Social Networking Committee chair. Thank you Angela Fowler fowlers at syix.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 01:36:30 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:36:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Petition to improve the accessibility of Myspace In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0904011836j11acc8abwa45e10f9b0949030@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Angela. I've had a MySpace before, and I don't like it anyhow not just because of accessibility, but because of phishing and creepy people wanting to be my friends, and the lack of real names like Facebook has. Beth On 4/1/09, Angela fowler wrote: > Dear friends, > The California Association of Blind Students Social Networking Committee > has created a petition to improve the accessibility of Myspace. It has > identified several issues which complicate the use of Myspace.com for users > of screen reading software. Below you will find the URL which will allow you > to sign the online petition. > > http://www.petitiononline.com/NFBC/petition.html > > > > If you prefer to received the print version of the petition please email me > offlist. > > fowlers at syix.com > > Sincerely > > Angela Fowler > > CABS Social Networking Committee chair. > > > Thank you > > Angela Fowler > > fowlers at syix.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Apr 2 02:35:34 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:35:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating headers in Microsoft word 2007 Message-ID: <20090401223534.26bt03uf40ogsk8k@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi NABSters, I have to reference a paper by MLA citation and need to create a header for each page of my essay with my last name and the respective page number. Does anyone know what the JAWS keystrokes are for this, for microsoft 2007? Thank you so much, Sarah From NMPBRAT at aol.com Thu Apr 2 03:09:36 2009 From: NMPBRAT at aol.com (NMPBRAT at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 23:09:36 EDT Subject: [nabs-l] A common-sence legislative idea Message-ID: Hi to all, I don't post real often. In fact, very rarely. This particular thread though caught my attention. I would have to respectfully disagree with the post and I'll explain why. I have been legally blind since birth (I have anaridia and developed cataracts at the age of 2). For some of you, I guess I would be considered "high partial". I am now 29. For most of my life, I understood that I would never drive and I accepted that. Then, a couple years back, my doctor determined that I should have my cataracts removed, as he could no longer see to the back of my eye, where he needed to, in order to keep track of possible onset of glaucoma. Up to this point, doctors had discouraged removing the cataracts because of possible complications and since they (cataracts) were not significantly limiting my day to day activities, there was really no need to take the risk. My eye doctor now felt that the benefits outweighed the risks. So we went for it. After having them removed, my distance vision actually did improve but my reading vision was affected. I hadn't had a low vision evaluation in years, so I had one done. Reading glasses were the main reason for it but I got a few other gadgets out of it too. Another thing posed to me by the doctor doing the low vision evaluation was that he wanted to know if I had ever thought about driving and whether I had heard of a program called "bioptic driving". I told him that I had heard of it a couple years back but had basically dismissed it, as I didn't think my vision was good enough to do it. He asked if I would mind if he did a few preliminary tests since I was there, to which I said that was fine. After the preliminary tests, he stated that he thought there was a chance I would qualify but he wouldn't know for sure unless I came back and did the full evaluation. So, when I went back to get my glasses when they were ready, I also completed the full evaluation. I essentially passed that part with flying colors and was asked if I wanted to pursue the "bioptic driving program". Now, I was excited because I had the opportunity to do something that I believed would maybe never happen in my lifetime. Anyway, to make a long story short, I went through a year-long intensive program with multiple steps and processes, including training by various professionals and had to take the typical drivers test but with an additional portion to it that the typical driver doesn't have to do. The bioptic device provides me with the visual acuity of a normal driver, even though I am technically legally blind without the device. I am proud to say that I did pass the program and am now a licensed Ohio driver. I do have restrictions at this time, although I do have the option to go back and get some of those restrictions removed with some further training and testing if I so choose to do so. I feel so thankful and blessed to be given the extra independence that driving and a car can provide. Keep in mind, I still do use public transportation as well. I know that this option is only available in a few states . Here is my concern with your proposal. You are saying that because I am by law "legally blind", that in order to receive services I must surrender my license which I earned through this program and am blessed to have?! Even though with this special bioptic device, which makes my vision equal to that of any driver on the road, that suddenly just because I am legally blind I should not be allowed to drive?! Although I understand where your proposal is coming from, and I share some of the same concerns, I don't see how you can make it a "one size fits all" approach. I don't disagree that maybe there shouldn't be further restrictions but even with those further restrictions, I think you'll still miss some of the people who are going to be the ones who try to defy the odds and end up hurting someone else. As many restrictions that you want to put on people, there are always going to be people who still decide to do what they want, legal or not, find the loopholes and those are the people who are most likely to hurt others. In my opinion, I also think that every person who gets a DUI should also have their license permanently taken from them, as people who have one are more likely to have another DUI and maybe the next time, someone will get seriously hurt. However, others might argue that there are people that after getting one DUI, they straighten up their life and don't ever do it again, so should they be punished for making one mistake?! Basically, my point being, there are so many if's, and's, and but's and to try and group everyone together is just not fair. It's really not cut and dry. Like I said, with the device, my vision is equal to that of any other driver, maybe better than some, but without it, I'm legally blind. I went through the process, which not all make it through, and I earned my license. I don't think I should be punished for accomplishing something most never thought possible, including me. Thanks to all for hearing my side of the story! Have a great one!! Respectfully, Nicole Poston Canton, OH ************** Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a recession. (http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000003) From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 2 03:49:50 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:49:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Field-based summer work with public land management agencies Message-ID: <793021.44692.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, I have a problem and I wanted your opinions/suggestions. I chose a career in forestry my freshman year of college, proior to being diagnosed with RP. It wasnt until my junior year that I was diagnosed, and it wasnt until grad school that I resorted to using any adaptive equipment (zoom Text/CCTV). The last several summers, I have worked for public land management agencies sichas MT State Parks and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). All of these jobs were field-based (outside), and required driving. Due to some recient changes in my vision, a rough experience driving in Las Vegas (I live in MT), a scary experience driving in a white-out, and the near roll-over I mentioned in my letter the other day, I am begining to come to the conclusion that driving isn't such a good idea. But, there are no summer jobs in my field that are officed-based, and, it seems that in order to get the full-time/permant, office-based type positions (I use the term 'office-based' loosely), everyone has to "pay their dues" in the field. How am I supposed to do field work if I can't get to the field? (nearly all these jobs are solo, 1 man, 1 job). I am not willing to forgo the 8 years of education I have achieved in pursuit of this career, but if I cant get to the field, I may have to switch my thinking regarding my career goals. Any suggestions would be appreciated Thanks, Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 04:27:41 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 15:27:41 +1100 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver Message-ID: Hello NABS listers, I have been a JAWS user since elementary school, but the computers in the psych labs on campus are all Macs and I'd like to be able to use them with VoiceOver, if possible. However, I know little about VoiceOver and I wanted to get your feedback about how effective and user-friendly it is as a screen reader. Are most standard applications on the Macintosh (i.e. word processing, Internet, etc.) accessible with VoiceOver? Also, does anyone know where I can find a tutorial for basic VoiceOver commands or an easy way to get to a keyboard help menu on the Mac? I tried teaching myself on my friend's computer but having been a JAWS user forever I realize that I don't know enough about the Mac operating system itself to learn the screen reader without some kind of manual or at least some keyboard help. I apologize for the technical thread but I'm hoping that this information will be useful to other students on campuses where public computers are Macs. If the Macintosh is indeed fully accessible out of the box, this could greatly cut down on technology expenses and make on-campus public computers accessible to blind students. Arielle From mworkman at ualberta.ca Thu Apr 2 04:47:26 2009 From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 22:47:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Creating headers in Microsoft word 2007 In-Reply-To: <20090401223534.26bt03uf40ogsk8k@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Hi Sarah, My understanding is that you can use the same keystrokes for 2007 as you would for earlier versions. I'm still using 2000, and I've never actually inserted a header before, but here's what I came up with after playing around for a few minutes. To view and edit headers, try alt V, for the view menu, and then H for headers. To get back to normal view, alt V and then N. To insert page numbers, alt I, then U. Hope this works for you. Marc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 8:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Creating headers in Microsoft word 2007 Hi NABSters, I have to reference a paper by MLA citation and need to create a header for each page of my essay with my last name and the respective page number. Does anyone know what the JAWS keystrokes are for this, for microsoft 2007? Thank you so much, Sarah _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. ca From iwilcox2011 at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 06:21:20 2009 From: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com (Isaiah Wilcox) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 02:21:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Arielle, First off, let me say welcome to the mac world. I have had a mac book since August of last year and I absolutely love it. Unfortunately voiceover is currently unaccessible for most programs on the mac; for example, Firefox and Adobe Reader. But Apple is working on it. However, voiceover works well with most mac based programs such as TextEdit, I Mail, and all of Mac's menus and settings. I am going to e-mail you now a list of commands for voiceover and there is also a built in hands on tutorial on how to use voiceover but I will have to find it again. It is a bit hard to get used to especially being used to a PC but to learn the mac is well worth it. If you or anyone else has any questions about the mac please feel free contact me. Thanks, Isaiah From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 10:55:06 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 05:55:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] April 3rd Nickis View Message-ID: <7949e5e20904020355v457126dbgbefc9b5c6e37f6c8@mail.gmail.com> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Nickis View Petition About The Accessibility of My Space.doc Type: application/msword Size: 23552 bytes Desc: not available URL: From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 11:03:18 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 06:03:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Ignore My Last Message Message-ID: <7949e5e20904020403q5ac08a03y26106ba2b575a55c@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, I accidentally sent a message to the list entitled April 3rd Nickis View with an accompanying attachment. Please ignore and delete. I am having some rather odd technical difficulties which should be resolved posthaste, and this got sent to the wrong address. Thanks. Courtney From blindhistory at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 13:11:50 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 07:11:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Updating a webpage Message-ID: I have found that my student division webpage is in major need of updating. Does anyone know how to update a webpage? Thanks in advance. -- Lora From dandrews at visi.com Thu Apr 2 16:17:48 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:17:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: >>> Earle Harrison < earle at handytech.us > 4/1/2009 2:55 PM >>> Wednesday, April 1, 2009. For Immediate Distribution. Sales contact: Earle Harrison 651-636-5184 earle at handytech.us. Dancing Dots Braille Music Technology & Handy Tech North America present: Producing Braille and Print Music Materials with GOODFEEL Software from Dancing Dots. When: Thursday, April 30, and Friday, May 1, 2009 - 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM. Where: Handy Tech North America, 3989 Central Avenue NE., Suite 402, Columbia Heights, MN 55421. Telephone: 651-636-5184. Email: info at handytech.us. Web: Handy Tech North America: http://www.handytech.us. Registration: To register, fill out our Online Registration Form: http://www.handytech.us/prod_braille_reg.html. Overview: Many vision teachers and music educators who serve blind students are unsure how to help them to participate fully in school music programs and classes. In this two-day course, they will learn how to prepare accessible music notation quickly and at the local level. Sighted people who can read print music but who do not necessarily know anything about literary or music Braille can use the suite of software from Dancing Dots called GOODFEEL to enter, revise and automatically transcribe print music into the equivalent Braille score. An audio playback option is available as an aid to Braille music reading and for those students who cannot read Braille but can learn their part by listening to the notation being played back in tempo. Participants will learn the basics of Braille music. In an hour or so, you will learn to read and perform simple rhythmic patterns and melodies notated in Braille: hardcopy for blind readers, printed Braille font for sighted. The instructors will help participants to evaluate such questions as who should learn to read Braille music and when? How can students who cannot read Braille use Dancing Dots technology to learn musical pieces? With the release of GOODFEEL 3.0 in late 2005, Dancing Dots introduced the first version of their Braille music software that has been integrated with an established music editor software called Lime. Consequently, for blind participants, much of this course will focus on using Lime to read and write music. Blind students will use Lime with the JAWS for Windows screen reader. They will hear musical tones accompanied by verbal descriptions of notes and other score elements. This information is reinforced by reading the equivalent Braille music notation on an electronic Braille display connected to the PC. Sighted students see the familiar five-line musical staff and conventional printed notation. Presentation of print and Braille notation is synchronized so that sighted and blind students view the same information simultaneously in the medium best suited to their needs. What You Will Learn: All students will: * Learn the basics of Braille music notation using the "7 Little Steps" approach by Richard Taesch. All students will use the Lime notation editor which has been integrated with the GOODFEEL Braille Music Translator. They will learn to: * Create new Braille transcriptions through direct keyboard input, import via MusicXML format, and music OCR (SharpEye Music Reader software). * Listen back to the music notation at various tempos and how to mute or solo different parts as an aid to memorization and practice. * Produce Braille music materials applying a range of transcription options. Sighted participants will learn: * How to instruct blind students in the use of the accessible music notation software. * How to correct scanning errors. * How to enter details of the score not picked up by the music OCR software such as finger numbers in piano music. * How to compare music on screen to original hardcopy to ensure an accurate transcription before passing printed music to GOODFEEL to make a Braille score. Blind participants will: * Practice and reinforce Braille music reading skills. * Learn new pieces and exercises. * Produce printed musical scores using the Lime notation editor with the Lime Aloud access solution based on the JAWS for Windows screen reader. Throughout the course, students will learn how to reference online help and user manuals. The instructor will discuss options for installation and how to configure related hardware such as Braille displays and embossers to get the most out of the Dancing Dots technology. Tuition: $550 per person for two days. $400 for each additional participant from the same organization or family. Included: Course materials, PC workstation loaded with GOODFEEL and related software, scanners, electronic musical keyboards, box lunch, coffee/snacks. David Andrews and white cane Harry. From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 16:32:28 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:32:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Updating a webpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904020932r42c90ff1s159011239fbbb490@mail.gmail.com> We will probably need more information to be truely helpful. If there is some sort of content management system in place, it will be pretty sinple. If you have to login to the server and change the code, it gets more complicated. I would talk to the site administrator about how to go about doing updates and changes. Bill On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Lora wrote: > I have found that my student division webpage is in major need of updating. > Does anyone know how to update a webpage? Thanks in advance. > > -- > Lora > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 16:33:32 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 09:33:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Updating a webpage In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904020932r42c90ff1s159011239fbbb490@mail.gmail.com> References: <26d2dfeb0904020932r42c90ff1s159011239fbbb490@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904020933l1e6e0b53o5aa8d478fc69d5a3@mail.gmail.com> Also, message the nfbcs list they would probably mnore helpful then we are. Bill On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Bill wrote: > We will probably need more information to be truely helpful. If there is > some sort of content management system in place, it will be pretty sinple. > If you have to login to the server and change the code, it gets more > complicated. I would talk to the site administrator about how to go about > doing updates and changes. > Bill > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Lora wrote: > >> I have found that my student division webpage is in major need of >> updating. >> Does anyone know how to update a webpage? Thanks in advance. >> >> -- >> Lora >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > > From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 17:29:12 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:29:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] music theory In-Reply-To: <20090401190315.A0B694A882EA@mytelespace1.mytelespace.net> References: <20090401190315.A0B694A882EA@mytelespace1.mytelespace.net> Message-ID: Thanks everyone for all the info! And Bill, there is a standard braille code, I'll email you off list to talk about it. Again, thanks everyone. Mary On 4/1/09, Coloradorockiesfan at gmx.com wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From minesm at me.com Thu Apr 2 17:33:02 2009 From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 11:33:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Updating a webpage In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904020932r42c90ff1s159011239fbbb490@mail.gmail.com> References: <26d2dfeb0904020932r42c90ff1s159011239fbbb490@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <68DE7A4B-CBF9-487F-9C80-4EE38A923E09@me.com> Also what web authoring tool are you using? Maurice On Apr 2, 2009, at 10:32 AM, Bill wrote: > We will probably need more information to be truely helpful. If > there is > some sort of content management system in place, it will be pretty > sinple. > If you have to login to the server and change the code, it gets more > complicated. I would talk to the site administrator about how to go > about > doing updates and changes. > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Lora wrote: > >> I have found that my student division webpage is in major need of >> updating. >> Does anyone know how to update a webpage? Thanks in advance. >> >> -- >> Lora >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm > %40me.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 2 17:41:45 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 12:41:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Updating a webpage References: <26d2dfeb0904020932r42c90ff1s159011239fbbb490@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001901c9b3ba$4c165230$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Laura and listers, If you contact me off-list I can help you with this matter. I'm one of the architects of the new NABS Web Site and can assist you. Again please contact me off-list to discuss this further. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Updating a webpage We will probably need more information to be truely helpful. If there is some sort of content management system in place, it will be pretty sinple. If you have to login to the server and change the code, it gets more complicated. I would talk to the site administrator about how to go about doing updates and changes. Bill On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Lora wrote: > I have found that my student division webpage is in major need of > updating. > Does anyone know how to update a webpage? Thanks in advance. > > -- > Lora > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 2 21:00:12 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Changing NABS digest format Message-ID: <787247.76140.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, I dont know if this is the right place to send this to but, here goes: As I don't with to recieve 20-30 emails a day from NABS email list, I opted for he digest format. However, there is so much "stuff" that it is hard to find the subject headings, and it is hard to determine what is new material, and what is old material repeated for perhaps the 4th or 5th time. Is there some way to clean up, or de-clutter the digest format so that it is easier to find subject headings and ID new material? Thanks Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From dandrews at visi.com Thu Apr 2 22:04:39 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:04:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Changing NABS digest format In-Reply-To: <787247.76140.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <787247.76140.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The digests are composed by the list software, so can't be changed at this end. The only solution is that if there is something unique at the beginning of each new message, you can search for that. This is why most of us don't find the digests a satisfactory solution, even though the alternative is multiple messages. I have each list put into a separate folder, by my e-mail program, and if it isn't a list I have to read, I can delete all messages for that day, if I get behind. I of course read all nfbnet.org messages, at least skim them, since I am list owner for all of them. David Andrews At 04:00 PM 4/2/2009, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I dont know if this is the right place to send this to but, here goes: >As I don't with to recieve 20-30 emails a day from NABS email list, >I opted for he digest format. However, there is so much "stuff" that >it is hard to find the subject headings, and it is hard to determine >what is new material, and what is old material repeated for perhaps >the 4th or 5th time. Is there some way to clean up, or de-clutter >the digest format so that it is easier to find subject headings and >ID new material? > >Thanks >Jim > >"Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > | > -Napoleon Bonaparte > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Thu Apr 2 22:08:39 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:08:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Field-based summer work with public land management agencies In-Reply-To: <793021.44692.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <793021.44692.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, without knowing a lot about the job, some solutions that might work include, hiring a driver, finding a volunteer driver, asking for a reasonable accommodation -- that is them hiring a driver, job sharing with someone, teaming up with someone who can drive, and both of you do field work for both of you so you can get each person's done twice as quickly. Dave None of this may work -- but hopefully can get you thinking of creative solutions. Also another way to go at it is to think of the essential tasks of the job, and devising ways to do those essential tasks that don[t involve driving, or minimize it. DA At 10:49 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote: >Hey all, > >I have a problem and I wanted your opinions/suggestions. I chose a >career in forestry my freshman year of college, proior to being >diagnosed with RP. It wasnt until my junior year that I was >diagnosed, and it wasnt until grad school that I resorted to using >any adaptive equipment (zoom Text/CCTV). > >The last several summers, I have worked for public land management >agencies sichas MT State Parks and the Bureau of Land Management >(BLM). All of these jobs were field-based (outside), and required >driving. Due to some recient changes in my vision, a rough >experience driving in Las Vegas (I live in MT), a scary experience >driving in a white-out, and the near roll-over I mentioned in my >letter the other day, I am begining to come to the conclusion that >driving isn't such a good idea. > >But, there are no summer jobs in my field that are officed-based, >and, it seems that in order to get the full-time/permant, >office-based type positions (I use the term 'office-based' loosely), >everyone has to "pay their dues" in the field. How am I supposed to >do field work if I can't get to the field? (nearly all these jobs >are solo, 1 man, 1 job). > >I am not willing to forgo the 8 years of education I have achieved >in pursuit of this career, but if I cant get to the field, I may >have to switch my thinking regarding my career goals. > > >Any suggestions would be appreciated >Thanks, >Jim > >"Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > | > -Napoleon Bonaparte > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 23:00:08 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:00:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Changing NABS digest format In-Reply-To: References: <787247.76140.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904021600p52edef7pcbb8b7eeab910ec4@mail.gmail.com> One of the lists i subscribed to used headings at the beginning of each message so you could jump through by headings. Though i guess this is kinda a screenreader tip rather then a sighted tip. Bill On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM, David Andrews wrote: > The digests are composed by the list software, so can't be changed at this > end. The only solution is that if there is something unique at the > beginning of each new message, you can search for that. This is why most of > us don't find the digests a satisfactory solution, even though the > alternative is multiple messages. I have each list put into a separate > folder, by my e-mail program, and if it isn't a list I have to read, I can > delete all messages for that day, if I get behind. > > I of course read all nfbnet.org messages, at least skim them, since I am > list owner for all of them. > > David Andrews > > > At 04:00 PM 4/2/2009, you wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I dont know if this is the right place to send this to but, here goes: >> As I don't with to recieve 20-30 emails a day from NABS email list, I >> opted for he digest format. However, there is so much "stuff" that it is >> hard to find the subject headings, and it is hard to determine what is new >> material, and what is old material repeated for perhaps the 4th or 5th time. >> Is there some way to clean up, or de-clutter the digest format so that it is >> easier to find subject headings and ID new material? >> >> Thanks >> Jim >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >> | >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 23:05:42 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 16:05:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Changing NABS digest format In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904021600p52edef7pcbb8b7eeab910ec4@mail.gmail.com> References: <787247.76140.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904021600p52edef7pcbb8b7eeab910ec4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904021605k55b8962ahfd2b0ecceb438fed@mail.gmail.com> the NFB lists can be recieved in HTML format and uses level one headings to denote the beginning of a new message. ACB lists also use HTML messages with headings at the beginning of new messages. This is what i used when i subscribed to digests, though now i just get them all in gmail in normal form and let it thread stuff which i personally find more pleasing and easier to follow conversations. Bill On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Bill wrote: > One of the lists i subscribed to used headings at the beginning of each > message so you could jump through by headings. Though i guess this is kinda > a screenreader tip rather then a sighted tip. > Bill > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> The digests are composed by the list software, so can't be changed at this >> end. The only solution is that if there is something unique at the >> beginning of each new message, you can search for that. This is why most of >> us don't find the digests a satisfactory solution, even though the >> alternative is multiple messages. I have each list put into a separate >> folder, by my e-mail program, and if it isn't a list I have to read, I can >> delete all messages for that day, if I get behind. >> >> I of course read all nfbnet.org messages, at least skim them, since I am >> list owner for all of them. >> >> David Andrews >> >> >> At 04:00 PM 4/2/2009, you wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I dont know if this is the right place to send this to but, here goes: >>> As I don't with to recieve 20-30 emails a day from NABS email list, I >>> opted for he digest format. However, there is so much "stuff" that it is >>> hard to find the subject headings, and it is hard to determine what is new >>> material, and what is old material repeated for perhaps the 4th or 5th time. >>> Is there some way to clean up, or de-clutter the digest format so that it is >>> easier to find subject headings and ID new material? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>> >>> | >>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>> signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > > From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 3 05:40:57 2009 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 22:40:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Accessible World Presents Accessible Leopard April 6th Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "News Wire" To: Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:21 PM Subject: Accessible World Presents Accessible Leopard April 6th Accessible World Presents Accessible Leopard April 6th News Wire An Overview of an Accessible Leopard by Jim Denham The latest version of the Macintosh operating system, OS X 10.5, includes some incredible accessibility features. For users who are blind, the built-in VoiceOver screen review software offers a whole new way to use the Mac. This powerful tool offers features such as refreshable Braille support, an extensive help system and reliable access to many popular Macintosh applications. For the past several years, all Macintosh computers have shipped with an Intel based processor. This hardware platform allows the machine to run non-Apple operating systems, including Microsoft Windows. Apple even provides a utility, called Bootcamp, that allows the user to easily switch between operating systems. This dual operating system environment is a great solution for individuals who want to use both Mac and Windows on the same machine. The Tek Talk session to be held on 6 April will introduce users to the powerful screen review software included with all versions of Macintosh Leopard. The powerful Navigation and help features of VoiceOver and the Mac will be demonstrated. The session will also include information for sighted trainers who need to provide instruction to persons who are blind on the Mac. Finally, the ability to easily and efficiently switch between the Mac and Windows operating systems will be shown. Date: Monday, April 6th, 2009. Time: 5:00 p.m. PDT, 6:00 p.m. MDT, 7:00 p.m. CDT, and 8:00 p.m. EDT and elsewhere in the world Tuesday 0:00 GMT Approximately 15 minutes prior to the event start time; go to The Pat Price Tek Talk Training Room at: http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2 Or, alternatively. Select The Pat Price Tek Talk Training Room at: http://www.accessibleworld.org Enter your first and last names on the sign-in screen. All Tek Talk training events are recorded so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the Tek Talk archives on our website at http://www.accessibleworld.org All online interactive programs require no password, are free of charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience or text chat with the attendees. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available on every entry screen to the Accessible World online rooms. Sign up information for all Accessible World News Wires and discussion lists are also available at our website http://www.accessibleworld.org Accessible World Contacts: Robert Acosta, Chair Accessible World 818-998-0044 Email: boacosta at pacbell.net Web: http://www.helpinghands4theblind.org Joann Becker, Events Coordinator Accessible World 617-969-1213 Email: joannbecker at pcomcast.net George Buys, CEO Talking Communities Email: buys at talkingcommunities.com The Accessible World, a division of Helping Hands For The Blind, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization, seeks to educate the general public, the disabled community and the professionals who serve them by providing highly relevant information about new products, services, and training opportunities designed specifically to eliminate geographic and access barriers that adversely affect them. -- If you no longer wish to receive any more announcements from the Accessible World announce list service, you may unsubscribe, edit your preferences or forward this email by using one of the links below. Unsubscribe: http://www.accessibleworld.org/lists/?p=unsubscribe&uid=2104577453e8edbb74da0c0c7affc7a0 Update your preferences or unsubscribe: http://www.accessibleworld.org/lists/?p=preferences&uid=2104577453e8edbb74da0c0c7affc7a0 Forward a Message to Someone: http://www.accessibleworld.org/lists/?p=forward&uid=2104577453e8edbb74da0c0c7affc7a0&mid=337 -- Powered by PHPlist, www.phplist.com -- From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 12:56:26 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 08:56:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] National Competition for Young Writers Message-ID: <11EC1B5402F94C34AF7B5C7F3C944596@Rufus> THE YOUNKIN-RIVERA PRIZES FOR YOUNG WRITERS AT SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY CARBONDALE http://www.angelfire.com/il/yww/contest.html A nationwide competition for creative writers aged 15-18. Entries accepted during the month of April in the genres of poetry and prose. Prize in each category: $250 and a full tuition scholarship to the 2009 Young Writers Workshop at Southern Illinois University Carbondale. To enter in poetry: send no more than 2 poems (limit of 25 lines each) per entrant, along with an entry fee of $5. To enter in prose (fiction or essay): send one essay or story (no more 1000 words) per entrant, along with an entry fee of $5. To enter in both poetry and prose: send no more than 2 poems (limit of 25 lines each) and one essay or story (of no more than 1000 words) per entrant, along with an entry fee of $10. Entries longer than the limits listed above will be returned, along with their entry fees. Entrants must be U.S. citizens or permanent residents. All entries must be typed on white 8 1/2 by 11 inch paper. Do not put your name on your entries. Include a separate cover sheet with the following information on it: your name, home address, phone number, e- mail address, date of birth, and the name and address of your high school. Checks or money orders to cover the entry fee should be made out to SIUC, with "Young Writers Workshop" written in the check's memo line. Please do not send cash. Include a self-addressed stamped envelope for c ontest results. No entries will be returned, so please keep copies of the work you send. No e-mail or faxed submissions will be accepted. Prizes will be awarded at a ceremony during the annual Young Writers Workshop at Southern Illinois University Carbondale, a five-day, co-ed, residential creative writing workshop for high school sophomores, juniors, and seniors interested in developing their skills in the writing of poetry and prose. If a prizewinner cannot attend the Workshop, the prize will not be awarded to that winner. Travel costs to and from the Workshop are the responsibility of the winner. Previous award winners cannot enter again. The Young Writers Workshop will be held in 2009 from June 23 to June 27, 2009. To enter, send your submissions, postmarked from April 1 to April 30, 2009, to: The Younkin-Rivera Prizes for Young Writers Allison Joseph, Director The Young Writers Workshop Department of English Southern Illinois University Carbondale Faner Hall 2380--Mail Code 4503 1000 Faner Drive Carbondale, IL 62901 Questions only: aljoseph at siu.edu Winners will be announced at the end of May 2009. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3984 (20090402) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From hfurney at bgsu.edu Fri Apr 3 18:00:11 2009 From: hfurney at bgsu.edu (Hannah G Furney) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 14:00:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A89A@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> Hi. Here is an article that had a story about me in it. You can forward it to anyone that you know that I know. Tha is fine. Have a good day. Thanks. http://www.bgviews.com/our-views/campus/helping-those-like-her-1.1641821 Hannah Furney Cru National Federation of the Blind From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 20:46:56 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 16:46:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] mobility & crutches In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well I finally get to embrace on of my few fears. I am completely blind and will be having knee surgery this coming Monday morning. Thankfully this next week is my Spring break, but I am required to be on crutches for two. I am curious if there are any mobility tricks that could be suggested, as I have been on crutches previously but could not think of anything. I find them to be quite annoying, as I simply imagine myself as wearing an invisible leash, while I coordinate dozens of friends or classmates to help me from one location to another. Although it is affective, it is very cumbersome and annoying. I would appreciate any tips you guys might have, Mandarino, From troubleclark at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 21:52:06 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 17:52:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Changing NABS digest format In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904021605k55b8962ahfd2b0ecceb438fed@mail.gmail.com> References: <787247.76140.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904021600p52edef7pcbb8b7eeab910ec4@mail.gmail.com> <26d2dfeb0904021605k55b8962ahfd2b0ecceb438fed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Jim Just delete it. On 4/2/09, Bill wrote: > the NFB lists can be recieved in HTML format and uses level one headings to > denote the beginning of a new message. ACB lists also use HTML messages > with headings at the beginning of new messages. > This is what i used when i subscribed to digests, though now i just get them > all in gmail in normal form and let it thread stuff which i personally find > more pleasing and easier to follow conversations. > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Bill wrote: > >> One of the lists i subscribed to used headings at the beginning of each >> message so you could jump through by headings. Though i guess this is >> kinda >> a screenreader tip rather then a sighted tip. >> Bill >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:04 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> The digests are composed by the list software, so can't be changed at >>> this >>> end. The only solution is that if there is something unique at the >>> beginning of each new message, you can search for that. This is why most >>> of >>> us don't find the digests a satisfactory solution, even though the >>> alternative is multiple messages. I have each list put into a separate >>> folder, by my e-mail program, and if it isn't a list I have to read, I >>> can >>> delete all messages for that day, if I get behind. >>> >>> I of course read all nfbnet.org messages, at least skim them, since I am >>> list owner for all of them. >>> >>> David Andrews >>> >>> >>> At 04:00 PM 4/2/2009, you wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I dont know if this is the right place to send this to but, here goes: >>>> As I don't with to recieve 20-30 emails a day from NABS email list, I >>>> opted for he digest format. However, there is so much "stuff" that it is >>>> hard to find the subject headings, and it is hard to determine what is >>>> new >>>> material, and what is old material repeated for perhaps the 4th or 5th >>>> time. >>>> Is there some way to clean up, or de-clutter the digest format so that >>>> it is >>>> easier to find subject headings and ID new material? >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>>> >>>> | >>>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>> signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From pyyhkala at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 23:40:16 2009 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:40:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Please Sign & Share A Web Petition Regarding Access To Kindle & Ebooks For The Blind Message-ID: <695ace540904031640h635d46b4sba96d08ce2de2152@mail.gmail.com> Please go to the web address below and sign the petition regarding full access to the Amazon Kindle and other e-books: http://is.gd/qC8W The petition was developed through the NFB and Reading Rights Coalition. More information on the issue is available at: http://readingrights.org We are trying to get 50,000 electronic signatures by Sunday April 5th. In addition there is still time for you to come to New York On Tuesday April 7th for the Authors Guild informational protest. More information can be found on the above web site, or you can email me directly with questions as well. My Twitter page, shown below, has much more information and a Facebook event invitation for the NYC protest. Thanks, Mika Pyyhkala http://twitter.com/pyyhkala From troubleclark at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 23:59:34 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 19:59:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. In-Reply-To: References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca> <4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com> <20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Dear Rania Sincerely, Nathan Clark Did you everfind a driver? On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: > If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. > > On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca wrote: >> Hi Beth, >> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >> many job/volunteer position applications. >> Have a good day, >> Sarah >> >> >> Quoting Beth : >> >>> Sarah, >>> >>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>> them. >>> Beth >>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>> >>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Rania, >>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a criminal >>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with their >>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with them. >>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want any >>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied for >>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had similar >>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual impairment. >>>> Good luck, >>>> Sarah >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>> >>>>> Dear Rani >>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be on >>>>> time? >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>> >>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>> school. >>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never >>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the rite >>>>>> questions. >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> Rania, >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 01:20:45 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 21:20:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I applied to has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't find one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train because the last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until 10:30. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Clark" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Dear Rania > > Sincerely, > Nathan Clark > Did you everfind a driver? > > On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >> >> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >> wrote: >>> Hi Beth, >>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>> Have a good day, >>> Sarah >>> >>> >>> Quoting Beth : >>> >>>> Sarah, >>>> >>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>>> them. >>>> Beth >>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>> >>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a criminal >>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with their >>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with them. >>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want any >>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied for >>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had similar >>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual impairment. >>>>> Good luck, >>>>> Sarah >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be on >>>>>> time? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>>> school. >>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never >>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the >>>>>>> rite >>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From CDanielsen at nfb.org Sat Apr 4 01:55:44 2009 From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:55:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sign the petition to allow everyone access to e-books Message-ID: Dear Fellow Federationists: As many of you know, we are engaged in a campaign to obtain access for the blind and others with print disabilities to e-books available for Amazon's new Kindle 2 e-book reader. The new reader, which Amazon is working to make fully accessible to the blind, has the ability to use text-to-speech to read these e-books aloud; but under pressure from the Authors Guild, Amazon has announced that authors and publishers will be allowed to disable the text-to-speech function. The National Federation of the blind has joined with over twenty other organizations to create the reading Rights Coalition, which has set up an on-line petition to urge the Authors Guild and Amazon to reverse course. Please read and sign the petition here: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-To-Read Please note: If you are using screen access technology, the first three fields on the form to sign the petition may not be announced. They are, in order: (1) a drop-down menu from which to select your prefix (Mr., Mrs., etc.); (2) an edit field for your first name, and (3) an edit field for your last name. the rest of the fields should announce themselves as you tab to them. If you still have trouble filling out the form, please send the following information to readingrights at nfb.org and we will be happy to sign on your behalf. You will need to send us your name, address, e-mail address, and any personal comments you would like to make about this issue. Thank you so much for your participation in this critically important effort. Sincerely: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind P.S. Once you have signed the petition, please be sure to forward the link to all of the contacts in your address book that you believe will support us in this cause. From liamskitten at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 06:51:56 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:51:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. In-Reply-To: <000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca> <4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com> <20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca> <000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com> Rainia, Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they perhaps get you thinking of other options. Best of luck, Courtney On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: > Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I applied to > has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't find > one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train because the > last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until 10:30. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nathan Clark" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Dear Rania >> >> Sincerely, >> Nathan Clark >> Did you everfind a driver? >> >> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>> >>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Beth, >>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>> Have a good day, >>>> Sarah >>>> >>>> >>>> Quoting Beth : >>>> >>>>> Sarah, >>>>> >>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>>>> them. >>>>> Beth >>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>> >>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a criminal >>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with their >>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with them. >>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want any >>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied for >>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had similar >>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual impairment. >>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>> Sarah >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be on >>>>>>> time? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never >>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the >>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 13:38:51 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 09:38:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from the school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As far as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to me and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my ariea was able to let me car pull with them. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Rainia, > > Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last > class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could > approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was > interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on > campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your > last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even > someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely > suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they > perhaps get you thinking of other options. > Best of luck, > Courtney > > On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I applied >> to >> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't find >> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train because >> the >> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until 10:30. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nathan Clark" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Dear Rania >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Nathan Clark >>> Did you everfind a driver? >>> >>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>> >>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>> Have a good day, >>>>> Sarah >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>> >>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>> >>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>>>>> them. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with them. >>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied for >>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>> similar >>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual impairment. >>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be on >>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never >>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the >>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Apr 4 14:13:04 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:13:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com> <006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the > school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could > try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from the > school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As far > as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to me > and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my > ariea was able to let me car pull with them. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linda Stover" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Rainia, >> >> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >> Best of luck, >> Courtney >> >> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>> applied to >>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>> find >>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train because >>> the >>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until 10:30. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>>> Dear Rania >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Nathan Clark >>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>> >>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>> >>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>> Sarah >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>>>>>> them. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied for >>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be on >>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never >>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the >>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From empower at smart.net Sat Apr 4 15:45:00 2009 From: empower at smart.net (Jamal Mazrui) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 10:45:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PDF2TXT 3.3 released Message-ID: http://EmpowermentZone.com/p2tsetup.exe PDF2TXT now uses an updated version of the QuickPDF library, which is commercially available at http://QuickPDF.com Several years worth of fixes and enhancements are incorporated in this library version compared to the previous one used. Although the source code to this and other tools used by PDF2TXT is not available, its own source code in the PowerBASIC language, PDF2TXT.bas, is now installed along with the executable. As before, the Image Format checkbox (Alt+F) is available for optical character recognition (OCR) -- using Google Tesseract technology -- on image-based PDFs that elude text extraction methods. Due to technical issues, there is not a simple way of aborting an OCR process that has already started. This is now possible, however, via a work-around of launching another copy of PDF2TXT. It clears the deck during its startup phase. The Quit button (Alt+Q) may then be invoked to close either copy of the program (though no harm results from both being loaded). As Before the Grab URL button (Alt+G) gets the address of the current web page in Internet Explorer and sets it as the PDF source. This now works with versions of Internet Explorer above 6.0. The feature makes it easy to download and convert all PDFs linked to a web page. An additional hotkey is introduced: F11 for Elevate Version (like the EdSharp and FileDir programs). This checks whether a newer version of PDF2TXT is available, and offers to install it. The command makes future updates to the program particularly convenient to obtain. As before, the Extra HTML checkbox (Alt+X) uses a different conversion technology to produce a .htm conversion in addition to the .txt one. To further increase conversion options via this checkbox, it now also causes another technology to be used for producing the .txt file, using the PDFToText.exe utility that is also separately available at http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/home.html Thus PDF2TXT now incorporates three different .txt conversion methods, a .htm method, and an OCR one -- all of which are possible in a batch mode that processes every PDF in a directory. The program has become the most capable, free converter of PDFs available on Windows! Jamal From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 15:49:06 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:49:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <000f01c9b53c$e3df57a0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I have not tried to ask for a list yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could >> try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >> the school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As >> far as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to >> me and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from >> my ariea was able to let me car pull with them. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Linda Stover" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Rainia, >>> >>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>> Best of luck, >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>> applied to >>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>> find >>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train because >>>> the >>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until 10:30. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Rania >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>> >>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the >>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 4 19:03:22 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 12:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] hiring a driver/ is hiring a driver a reasonable accomidation? Message-ID: <142085.11813.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> hello, First, To the person who was trying to hire a driver to get to/from school: Are there no taxi cabs where you live? I take a cab to class and VR pays for it. Second, I am pursuing a job with Montana State Parks. At $10/hpur, the position I am interviewing for is the highest paid summer position avaliable within the MT state parks system.  As the pay is so pathetically low, it would probably cost me more money to hire a driver than I could make. Is it a reasonable accommodation to ask a government agency to hire a driver if the "qualifications" section of the vacancy announcement requires a valid drivers license, and, the "duties" section requires almost daily field work? hanks, Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 19:28:58 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 15:28:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] hiring a driver/ is hiring a driver a reasonableaccomidation? References: <142085.11813.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c9b55b$9ab3dd20$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Hi yes there are cabs near me but it will caust me $100 a day to use a cab to get to and from class. Rehab will not help me with transportation or hyering a driver because they helped me with transportation when i was attending classes at my local community college. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 3:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] hiring a driver/ is hiring a driver a reasonableaccomidation? hello, First, To the person who was trying to hire a driver to get to/from school: Are there no taxi cabs where you live? I take a cab to class and VR pays for it. Second, I am pursuing a job with Montana State Parks. At $10/hpur, the position I am interviewing for is the highest paid summer position avaliable within the MT state parks system. As the pay is so pathetically low, it would probably cost me more money to hire a driver than I could make. Is it a reasonable accommodation to ask a government agency to hire a driver if the "qualifications" section of the vacancy announcement requires a valid drivers license, and, the "duties" section requires almost daily field work? hanks, Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity." | -Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 4 20:01:27 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 13:01:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver Message-ID: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> hello, I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following suggestion. But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal background request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do not have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the check or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your local public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a pool of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as government employees. hope this helps jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From cassonw at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 20:55:40 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 13:55:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 20:58:20 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:58:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Thanks. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver hello, I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following suggestion. But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal background request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do not have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the check or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your local public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a pool of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as government employees. hope this helps jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity." | -Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sat Apr 4 23:08:42 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 18:08:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] hiring a driver/ is hiring a driver a reasonable accomidation? In-Reply-To: <142085.11813.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <142085.11813.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It may not be, which is why I suggested job sharing, forming a team, and other creative ideas as alternatives. Also, on the other hand, when making the accommodation the whole of state government needs to be considered, not your salary, or the one department you would be working for, according to the ADA. So, Montana couldn't really say they couldn't do it because it wasn't reasonable. Dave At 02:03 PM 4/4/2009, you wrote: >hello, >First, >To the person who was trying to hire a driver to get to/from school: >Are there no taxi cabs where you live? I take a cab to class and VR >pays for it. > >Second, >I am pursuing a job with Montana State Parks. At $10/hpur, the >position I am interviewing for is the highest paid summer position >avaliable within the MT state parks system. As the pay is so >pathetically low, it would probably cost me more money to hire a >driver than I could make. Is it a reasonable accommodation to ask a >government agency to hire a driver if the "qualifications" section >of the vacancy announcement requires a valid drivers license, and, >the "duties" section requires almost daily field work? > >hanks, >Jim > >"Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > | > -Napoleon Bonaparte > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 4 23:26:30 2009 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:26:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service From Jacob Struiksma jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones Hi everyone, I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 23:43:53 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:43:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090404234353.GA60434@yumi.bluecherry.net> I haven't used Talks on Windows Mobile, but it's a Windows Mobile device, so you should have all of those features--they would work with Talks. The major bit of fun is learning to touch type on the thumboard, and learning to use a new screen reader. That's not the biggest deal with MobileSpeak Pocket because they've got nice tutorials. I assume the same is true of Talks. Joseph On Sat, Apr 04, 2009 at 01:55:40PM -0700, Bill wrote: >Hi everyone, >I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon >wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? >Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite >thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or >crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you >for your help, Bill From cassonw at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 00:31:46 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:31:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: References: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904041731md19b59at666e70a7776db5c2@mail.gmail.com> is that for the original q with mobile speak? I know that the q9c has more memory and is reported to be less sluggish then the original q. Also, this device will be loaded with talks on windows mobile 6 or 6.1 i forget which. thanks anyway, Bill On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone > or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you > can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me > writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid > of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot > has > more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone > with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service > From > Jacob Struiksma > jacobstruiksma at gmail.com > Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > Hi everyone, > I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon > wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? > Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least > favorite > thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or > crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you > for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 00:43:43 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 20:43:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9585BA33ED4C450EA251B85DA1C03B65@Rufus> Stay away from the Q. I spend my time confused about whether I should throw a shoe at MSS for being so slow or the phone for being so uncooperative. I'm thinking it must surely be the phone or there would be more complaints about the software. In the midst of my frustrations, however, I tend not to be discriminatory about which I hate more. When I bought my phone Verizon did not appear to have much in the way of variety for MSS accessibility. I hope this has since changed. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:26 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service From Jacob Struiksma jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones Hi everyone, I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmowe r84%40hotmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From fowlers at syix.com Sun Apr 5 00:57:05 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 17:57:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: References: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1B810598F653488FBF5D68658A709B80@angelab> There is a Sam-sung phone which I have heard is the best in terms of accessibility. Does anyone know which model that is? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:27 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service >From Jacob Struiksma jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones Hi everyone, I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From cassonw at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 01:09:55 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:09:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <9585BA33ED4C450EA251B85DA1C03B65@Rufus> References: <9585BA33ED4C450EA251B85DA1C03B65@Rufus> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904041809k6d3f8102k4b38da0fe9b4be17@mail.gmail.com> whnyou say Mss what are you refering to? On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Stay away from the Q. I spend my time confused about whether I should > throw > a shoe at MSS for being so slow or the phone for being so uncooperative. > I'm thinking it must surely be the phone or there would be more complaints > about the software. In the midst of my frustrations, however, I tend not > to > be discriminatory about which I hate more. When I bought my phone Verizon > did not appear to have much in the way of variety for MSS accessibility. I > hope this has since changed. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when > you on phone > or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other > things you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it > freeze a lot for me writing messages and the battery has to be > charged all the time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the > Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot has more memory and > talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with > mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell > service From Jacob Struiksma jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows > live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > Hi everyone, > I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from > verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How > easy is it to learn? > Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your > least favorite thing about the device? Is the response > sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? > Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, > Bill _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmowe > r84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From fowlers at syix.com Sun Apr 5 01:30:21 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:30:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <9585BA33ED4C450EA251B85DA1C03B65@Rufus> References: <9585BA33ED4C450EA251B85DA1C03B65@Rufus> Message-ID: <29B6547426574426B5CD3A4264328926@angelab> When did you get your phone, Joe. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 5:44 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones Stay away from the Q. I spend my time confused about whether I should throw a shoe at MSS for being so slow or the phone for being so uncooperative. I'm thinking it must surely be the phone or there would be more complaints about the software. In the midst of my frustrations, however, I tend not to be discriminatory about which I hate more. When I bought my phone Verizon did not appear to have much in the way of variety for MSS accessibility. I hope this has since changed. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:26 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service >From Jacob Struiksma jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones Hi everyone, I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmowe r84%40hotmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 5 01:54:02 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Follow-up on CCTV question Message-ID: <459844.31444.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, For the benefit of anyone who may be experiencing the same troubles as I regarding the use of highlighters with CCTV's, here is what I found out: nothing. I called Enhanced Vision (the company that makes the Merlin CCTV) and--you wont believe this--their R & D people have never even considered the issue of using hghlighters with a CCTV. The tech support person I talked with made a very general suggestion that I experement with various light filters (for high end cameras) but had no specific recomendations. I know this didn't help, Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 02:17:08 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:17:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <29B6547426574426B5CD3A4264328926@angelab> Message-ID: <26BC1739DB434E8BA920DD236197E386@Rufus> January of last year. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela fowler Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:30 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones When did you get your phone, Joe. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 5:44 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones Stay away from the Q. I spend my time confused about whether I should throw a shoe at MSS for being so slow or the phone for being so uncooperative. I'm thinking it must surely be the phone or there would be more complaints about the software. In the midst of my frustrations, however, I tend not to be discriminatory about which I hate more. When I bought my phone Verizon did not appear to have much in the way of variety for MSS accessibility. I hope this has since changed. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:26 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service >From Jacob Struiksma jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones Hi everyone, I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmowe r84%40hotmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers% 40syix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 02:15:45 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 22:15:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904041809k6d3f8102k4b38da0fe9b4be17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mobile Speak Smartphone. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:10 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones whnyou say Mss what are you refering to? On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 5:43 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Stay away from the Q. I spend my time confused about whether I should > throw a shoe at MSS for being so slow or the phone for being so > uncooperative. > I'm thinking it must surely be the phone or there would be more > complaints about the software. In the midst of my frustrations, > however, I tend not to be discriminatory about which I hate more. > When I bought my phone Verizon did not appear to have much in the way > of variety for MSS accessibility. I hope this has since changed. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jacob Struiksma > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 7:26 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when > you on phone > or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things > you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot > for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the > time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone > which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have > Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile > 6.1 and sprint is my cell service From Jacob Struiksma > jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger > lawnmower84 at hotmail.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > Hi everyone, > I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon > wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to > learn? > Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least > favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the > device hang or crash, if so, how often? > Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you for your help, Bill > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmowe > r84%40hotmai awnmowe%0Ar84%40hotmai> > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com sorozco%0A%40gmail.com> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmai > l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 5 02:54:40 2009 From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 19:54:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904041731md19b59at666e70a7776db5c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <821052.45669.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com> The OS for the Q9C is Windows Mobile 6.1 Standard. Sadly, I heard that you are locked in to VZ Navigator which is graphic enough to the point that a screen reader may not be able to work with it. --- On Sat, 4/4/09, Bill wrote: From: Bill Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 5:31 PM is that for the original q with mobile speak? I know that the q9c has more memory and is reported to be less sluggish then the original q. Also, this device will be loaded with talks on windows mobile 6 or 6.1 i forget which. thanks anyway, Bill On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone > or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things you > can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot for me > writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the time. I got rid > of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone which I like a lot > has > more memory and talks when on call. I have Samsung Ace I325 smart phone > with mobile speak, running windows mobile 6.1 and sprint is my cell service > From > Jacob Struiksma > jacobstruiksma at gmail.com > Windows live messenger lawnmower84 at hotmail.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > Hi everyone, > I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon > wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? > Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least > favorite > thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the device hang or > crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many of you, thank you > for your help, Bill _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Sun Apr 5 04:52:25 2009 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 21:52:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904041731md19b59at666e70a7776db5c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <26d2dfeb0904041355s392aa444l235288d49a0ac8e0@mail.gmail.com> <26d2dfeb0904041731md19b59at666e70a7776db5c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: All the q phones do not talk when you on phone call. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bill Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 5:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Cell phones is that for the original q with mobile speak? I know that the q9c has more memory and is reported to be less sluggish then the original q. Also, this device will be loaded with talks on windows mobile 6 or 6.1 i forget which. thanks anyway, Bill On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jacob Struiksma wrote: > The big problem with the Q phone is that does not talk when you on phone > or if you in the middle of doing something like email or other things > you can not get to call. I had the first Q phone and it freeze a lot > for me writing messages and the battery has to be charged all the > time. I got rid of my Q phone and now have the Samsung ace I325 phone > which I like a lot has more memory and talks when on call. I have > Samsung Ace I325 smart phone with mobile speak, running windows mobile > 6.1 and sprint is my cell service From Jacob Struiksma > jacobstruiksma at gmail.com Windows live messenger > lawnmower84 at hotmail.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Bill > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 1:56 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Cell phones > > Hi everyone, > I am considering purchasing the Motorola Q9C with talks from verizon > wireless. does any one use this device? If so, How easy is it to learn? > Are you able to set appointments and reminders? What is your least > favorite thing about the device? Is the response sluggish? Does the > device hang or crash, if so, how often? Hope i haven't bored too many > of you, thank you for your help, Bill > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40 > hotmai > l.com r84%40hotmai%0Al.com> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmai > l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 10:47:18 2009 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 06:47:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello. My mum just got a macbook pro last week and I also want to know how to use voice over. Could you send me the stuff too please? My big question is, how do you get to the file menu? I've learned alot from just messing around, but it would be lovely to have some sort of a guide. Thank you so much inn advance! ~Franandah On 4/2/09, Isaiah Wilcox wrote: > Hi Arielle, > First off, let me say welcome to the mac world. I have had a mac book > since August of last year and I absolutely love it. Unfortunately > voiceover is currently unaccessible for most programs on the mac; for > example, Firefox and Adobe Reader. But Apple is working on it. > However, voiceover works well with most mac based programs such as > TextEdit, I Mail, and all of Mac's menus and settings. I am going > to e-mail you now a list of commands for voiceover and there is also a > built in hands on tutorial on how to use voiceover but I will have to > find it again. It is a bit hard to get used to especially being used > to a PC but to learn the mac is well worth it. If you or anyone else > has any questions about the mac please feel free contact me. > Thanks, > Isaiah > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From newmanrl at cox.net Sun Apr 5 13:49:17 2009 From: newmanrl at cox.net (Robert Newman) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 08:49:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #144- Blindness With Other Conditions Message-ID: NABS members RE: Blindness With Other conditions Love a surprise ending? In this newest THOUGHT PROVOKER I borrow from another genre to make my point. If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows. Recall that I collect responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and learn from and that URL is- Http://thoughtprovoker.info If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER 144 Blindness With Other Conditions "No, nothing else," answered Bill in response to my question- "Do you have any other major physical or emotional or life style considerations that you are concerned that your oncoming blindness will negatively impact or in reverse, will make your adjustment to blindness difficult?" I am a VR Counselor, this was my first visit with Bill. He is thirty, rapidly going blind due to RP and had just lost his job as a truck driver. My question reflected a major principle in achieving a successful outcome in adjusting to any major loss- you have to deal with the whole person. The strain in Bill's voice, the rubbing of sweating hands on his thighs told me my question had this guy reacting to something that he was unwilling to share. In my mind, I couldn't help but speculate, was he an alcoholic or an AIDS victim, or.? And so to plant the seed, an opportunity for later, I said, "Okay. And as we get to know one another, if in the future after you get a sense of how the rehabilitation process works, please don't hesitate to bring up any thing you'd like to talk about." Bill didn't wait very long and said, "Like I was saying, I've learned over the years that for me to.ah, manage my life, I've had to become a control freak. And I'm afraid blindness will.make me lose control." Finished, I walked Bill out to the reception area, where luck was with me. Randy, my next appointment was early. "Bill, meet Randy. He also has a form of RP, along with being deaf. And hey, he runs his own vending business." Out in the hallway walking to the elevator, I still felt good that Bill had met Randy, a guy that had another obviously serious condition in life to contend with and was doing well. At the open elevator doors, I shook Bill's hand. "I'll see you next week, at your place and we can talk more." And I would have said more, but we were interrupted. "Bill, let's go," interjected a male voice with very "no-nonsense" tone. "Richard!" I could tell Bill wasn't happy with this intrusion. Then to me, "This is my brother. Excuse me a moment." And taking Richard off to one side, they talked. Back at the elevator, Richard said, "I didn't want Bill to come to you. We take care of our own. I'll be." "Richard, stop!" Bill cut off his brother. "I'll meet you at the car." Then to me, he said, "Robert, I apologize for my brother. We are a very close and protective family. But ah, I don't mean to scare you, but if Richard comes to your office or wherever, don't ask him in. He'll settle down." And with that he was gone. I did not see Bill again for two months. We had four rescheduled appointments, bill calling in the day of each to cancel. Initially I thought denial was the major factor, but each successive call felt more like escalating stress and near panic. It is interesting to note, at some point in each conversation, he would refer to the "control" issue. Until, unexpectedly Bill showed up. "I was going to stay away. But I remember you said blindness can be managed even if you have other ah, issues, that you can still control your life. And I can't allow myself to lose control." A deep breath. "I want to explain. My brother and I both have.ah, are." Another deep breath, then in a rush, "I've not hurt anyone --- I've kept control --- fear I'm losing it --- I don't want to be like my brother." I had listened closely, was again puzzled, but excited to have Bill opening up. I thought, "Great, now we can get at those other key issues and work with them along side his blindness. Now we can have the best chance to get his life in balance; help him to get that control back that he speaks of as being so critical." In a sense holding my breath, I asked, "This is great, Bill. So help me to help you. Tell me what you are dealing with?" He said, "I am a vampire." Robert Leslie Newman Email- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER Website- Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info From troubleclark at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 14:41:05 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 10:41:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver In-Reply-To: <000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: ear Rani Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one driver. Sincerely, Nathan On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: > Thanks. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Reed" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > > > hello, > I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following suggestion. > But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from > applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal > background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. > Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal background > request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do not > have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the check > or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, > being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of > their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. > > Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your local > public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a pool > of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as > government employees. > > hope this helps > jim > > "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > > | > -Napoleon Bonaparte > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Apr 5 15:16:31 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 11:16:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <003201c9b601$80b9c2d0$0501a8c0@Serene> Hey Rania I just thought of a great idea. Are you friendly with anybody from your high school? High school kids love to earn extra money! Plus, they're done with school before evening time, unless, they're athletes and have tons of practice. Maybe, with permission of their parents, you could get some high school kids to be drivers. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Clark" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > ear Rani > Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one driver. > > Sincerely, > Nathan > > On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >> Thanks. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Reed" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >> >> >> hello, >> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >> suggestion. >> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. >> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >> background >> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do >> not >> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >> check >> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, >> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of >> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >> >> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your local >> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >> pool >> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as >> government employees. >> >> hope this helps >> jim >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >> | >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 15:52:55 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 11:52:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <000901c9b606$96e6b1d0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Know i have not found one to start with. I feel like I am starting to become fustrateed because I haven't found one yet. I can't even find the number to my local lions club. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Clark" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > ear Rani > Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one driver. > > Sincerely, > Nathan > > On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >> Thanks. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Reed" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >> >> >> hello, >> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >> suggestion. >> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. >> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >> background >> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do >> not >> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >> check >> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, >> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of >> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >> >> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your local >> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >> pool >> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as >> government employees. >> >> hope this helps >> jim >> >> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >> >> | >> -Napoleon Bonaparte >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 16:08:17 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:08:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <003201c9b601$80b9c2d0$0501a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <000901c9b608$bc986f70$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Everyone I went to high school with has graduated. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > Hey Rania > > I just thought of a great idea. Are you friendly with anybody from your > high school? High school kids love to earn extra money! Plus, they're > done with school before evening time, unless, they're athletes and have > tons of practice. Maybe, with permission of their parents, you could get > some high school kids to be drivers. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nathan Clark" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > > >> ear Rani >> Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one >> driver. >> >> Sincerely, >> Nathan >> >> On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >>> Thanks. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jim Reed" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >>> >>> >>> hello, >>> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >>> suggestion. >>> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >>> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >>> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. >>> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >>> background >>> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do >>> not >>> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >>> check >>> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, >>> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of >>> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >>> >>> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your >>> local >>> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >>> pool >>> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as >>> government employees. >>> >>> hope this helps >>> jim >>> >>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>> >>> | >>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From westbchris at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 19:48:44 2009 From: westbchris at gmail.com (Chris Westbrook) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:48:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><003201c9b601$80b9c2d0$0501a8c0@Serene> <000901c9b608$bc986f70$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <3ED85FD968B3420198C48D093419CA42@chrisw> Have you put an ad in the paper or advertised on kraigs list? You do have to be careful, upon doing a Google search on one of my responses I learned that he had been arrested for drug use. Even if you have to pay to get a criminal check, they are not expensive, and it would be worth it if you are unsure. Also make sure you're willing to pay. I'm paying $80 a week to get to and from work. Yes, it's expensive, double what I would pay paratransit, but it's less expensive than taking cabs and the reliability is worth it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > Everyone I went to high school with has graduated. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > > >> Hey Rania >> >> I just thought of a great idea. Are you friendly with anybody from your >> high school? High school kids love to earn extra money! Plus, they're >> done with school before evening time, unless, they're athletes and have >> tons of practice. Maybe, with permission of their parents, you could get >> some high school kids to be drivers. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nathan Clark" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >> >> >>> ear Rani >>> Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one >>> driver. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Nathan >>> >>> On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >>>> Thanks. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jim Reed" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >>>> >>>> >>>> hello, >>>> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >>>> suggestion. >>>> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >>>> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >>>> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. >>>> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >>>> background >>>> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do >>>> not >>>> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >>>> check >>>> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face >>>> it, >>>> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of >>>> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >>>> >>>> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your >>>> local >>>> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >>>> pool >>>> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as >>>> government employees. >>>> >>>> hope this helps >>>> jim >>>> >>>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>>> >>>> | >>>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/westbchris%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 20:20:21 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 16:20:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><003201c9b601$80b9c2d0$0501a8c0@Serene><000901c9b608$bc986f70$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <3ED85FD968B3420198C48D093419CA42@chrisw> Message-ID: <001b01c9b62b$f30415f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Thanks. I am going to put another add on cregslist because I got one response the first time but the person couldn't do it because it was to far and they were afraid of not geting me to class on time. Know i have not tried placing an add in the paper. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Westbrook" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > Have you put an ad in the paper or advertised on kraigs list? You do have > to be careful, upon doing a Google search on one of my responses I learned > that he had been arrested for drug use. Even if you have to pay to get a > criminal check, they are not expensive, and it would be worth it if you > are unsure. Also make sure you're willing to pay. I'm paying $80 a week > to get to and from work. Yes, it's expensive, double what I would pay > paratransit, but it's less expensive than taking cabs and the reliability > is worth it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 12:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > > >> Everyone I went to high school with has graduated. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:16 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >> >> >>> Hey Rania >>> >>> I just thought of a great idea. Are you friendly with anybody from your >>> high school? High school kids love to earn extra money! Plus, they're >>> done with school before evening time, unless, they're athletes and have >>> tons of practice. Maybe, with permission of their parents, you could >>> get some high school kids to be drivers. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >>> >>> >>>> ear Rani >>>> Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one >>>> driver. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Nathan >>>> >>>> On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Rania, >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jim Reed" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> hello, >>>>> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >>>>> suggestion. >>>>> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >>>>> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >>>>> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal >>>>> record. >>>>> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >>>>> background >>>>> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants >>>>> do not >>>>> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >>>>> check >>>>> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face >>>>> it, >>>>> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out >>>>> of >>>>> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >>>>> >>>>> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your >>>>> local >>>>> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >>>>> pool >>>>> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such >>>>> as >>>>> government employees. >>>>> >>>>> hope this helps >>>>> jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>>>> >>>>> | >>>>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/westbchris%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 5 22:47:38 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 15:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver Message-ID: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, If you can't find a driver, you may have to look at other alternatives: 1. Move closer to school/move to dorms; it would probaby be nice to be closer to campus resources and your classmates. 2. Leave class early enough to catch the last train and then have a classmate or a Disability support worker take notes/record the remainder of the lecture. (digital voice recorders are nice as the file can be emailed) 3. Concider transfering schools so that you can attend classes that are more favorable to your needs/schedual 4. Work with your Disability office to get class scheduals changed. (threaten #3 if they wont, and, I would take that threat straight to President of the university) Additionally, take your story public; get your fellow students behind you and use their support to pressure the university administration to change. There is no reason class should be ending at 1030pm anyway, and I bet your teachers and classmates hate the schedual as well. 5. Concider taking a combination of in-class and online courses (from outside insititutions if nesicary, then transfer the credits) 6. Often class scheduals cycle from semester to semester. What is only offered at 9 pm this semester may be offered at 3 pm next semester. Hopefully this helps Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 5 23:16:14 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:16:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver References: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <88EC1396B16A4B14AC1912714C720653@Ashley> Hi Jim, Your suggestions are good. But some are not practical for some people. Not all students can move closer because they have no where to go or cannot afford it. Second, I believe this individual goes to community college and dorms do not exist there. Also not all classes are online; even if the college offers online classes they may not be the credits this student needs. As to getting student and public support I agree. There is no reason a class should end as late as 10:30. I've not heard of that before. I bet professors hate teaching that late. Students often stay up late, but safety wise many of them probably hate driving that late at night. I'm sure a driver will be found. Advertising in the paper should yield results. Ashley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 5 23:26:24 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:26:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> Serena, The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class for privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent wich may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, more appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them contact her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the information and the professor send out the info to the class. But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could >> try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >> the school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As >> far as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to >> me and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from >> my ariea was able to let me car pull with them. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Linda Stover" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Rainia, >>> >>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>> Best of luck, >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>> applied to >>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>> find >>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train because >>>> the >>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until 10:30. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear Rania >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>> >>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, I've >>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do have >>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free criminal >>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to buy >>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from >>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the >>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Apr 5 23:35:48 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:35:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> <0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> Message-ID: <003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't give out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in the first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of students in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look up their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually standard college email addresses. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Serena, > > The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class for > privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent wich > may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, more > appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them > contact her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the > information and the professor send out the info to the class. > > But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable > and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rania" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could >>> try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >>> the school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. >>> As far as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give >>> it to me and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if >>> someone from my ariea was able to let me car pull with them. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Linda Stover" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>>> Rainia, >>>> >>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>> Best of luck, >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>> applied to >>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>>> find >>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>> because the >>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>> 10:30. >>>>> Rania, >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>> driver. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to >>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 5 23:56:15 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:56:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Hi Rania, Since you posted this almost two weeks ago, I sure hope you found a driver or at least are interviewing potential drivers. If not you need to be more aggressive. What time does your class start? Why on earth does it end at 10:30? That is late and a very odd ending time. What sort of class is it? I find it odd the classes take part in a hospital. You are right the institution will not likely give you names of students; that would violate their privacy. Its too bad you cannot leave a flyer. That is a great way to get their attention. You should put an ad in the paper. Contact local civic groups. Often they want to do volunteer work. I am thinking the lions club or Kwanis club or Rotery club. If you end up hiring one, get one main one and a backup. Get not only a resume, but references and ask the references questions. I suggest asking for one professional and one personal. Now as to questions, you may want to ask a blind person who has hired a driver before. I will say my suggestions come from someone who has not hired a driver yet. I am suggesting things based on interviewing and hiring readers and what I might do if I were hiring a driver. But with no experience, my ideas may or may not work. I don't know since I have not done it. That said, here are my ideas. You can internet research general interview questions. Include a handful of general interview questions. These include: Tell me about yourself. What work experience do you have? If they had several jobs, ask for the past five years. You don't need their hole work history. What interests you about this job? You can find more on the internet. Then ask some specific questions to driving. When I was interviewing readers I asked them if they had read before, what subjects they liked, and if they had done much research. My point being I want to ask questions to elicit responses about their qualifications and ability to do the job. For a driver I might ask these: 1. Have you driven before? 2. How long have you lived in the area? 3. Do you own a GPS? 4. Are you patient? I would pick about ten questions. You don't want to have too many. You won't have this driver for life. The interview should last about 30 minutes. You may want to ride around your community before hiring them to see their driving style. I also agree you need a background check. That is if hiring. If you get a volunteer from Lions club, they are honest good hearted people. So I wouldn't do a check on them. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:32 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from school. > What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never > interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the rite > questions. > Thank you. > Rania, > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3957 (20090324) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 5 23:59:28 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 19:59:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <000901c9b606$96e6b1d0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <29358D934C62482297F766A154E65691@Ashley> Rania, That would be frustrating. Why not use paratransit? Are they not in your area? When I was a commuter to college I used paratransit and family for my transportation. Moving to school eliminated the transit issue. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > Know i have not found one to start with. I feel like I am starting to > become fustrateed because I haven't found one yet. I can't even find the > number to my local lions club. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nathan Clark" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > > >> ear Rani >> Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one >> driver. >> >> Sincerely, >> Nathan >> >> On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >>> Thanks. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jim Reed" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >>> >>> >>> hello, >>> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >>> suggestion. >>> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >>> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >>> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. >>> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >>> background >>> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do >>> not >>> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >>> check >>> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face it, >>> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of >>> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >>> >>> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your >>> local >>> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >>> pool >>> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as >>> government employees. >>> >>> hope this helps >>> jim >>> >>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>> >>> | >>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 00:15:07 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:15:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver References: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001301c9b64c$be9befb0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Thanks. I have also been looking in to other alternitives as well. Thank you. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 6:47 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver Hello, If you can't find a driver, you may have to look at other alternatives: 1. Move closer to school/move to dorms; it would probaby be nice to be closer to campus resources and your classmates. 2. Leave class early enough to catch the last train and then have a classmate or a Disability support worker take notes/record the remainder of the lecture. (digital voice recorders are nice as the file can be emailed) 3. Concider transfering schools so that you can attend classes that are more favorable to your needs/schedual 4. Work with your Disability office to get class scheduals changed. (threaten #3 if they wont, and, I would take that threat straight to President of the university) Additionally, take your story public; get your fellow students behind you and use their support to pressure the university administration to change. There is no reason class should be ending at 1030pm anyway, and I bet your teachers and classmates hate the schedual as well. 5. Concider taking a combination of in-class and online courses (from outside insititutions if nesicary, then transfer the credits) 6. Often class scheduals cycle from semester to semester. What is only offered at 9 pm this semester may be offered at 3 pm next semester. Hopefully this helps Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity." | -Napoleon Bonaparte _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Apr 6 00:27:04 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:27:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver Message-ID: <20090406002704.29150.86505@web3.serotek.com> This is Jedi. I would also like a copy of the VoiceOver cheat sheet. Thanks. Original message: > Hello. My mum just got a macbook pro last week and I also want to know > how to use voice over. Could you send me the stuff too please? My big > question is, how do you get to the file menu? I've learned alot from > just messing around, but it would be lovely to have some sort of a > guide. Thank you so much inn advance! > ~Franandah > On 4/2/09, Isaiah Wilcox wrote: >> Hi Arielle, >> First off, let me say welcome to the mac world. I have had a mac book >> since August of last year and I absolutely love it. Unfortunately >> voiceover is currently unaccessible for most programs on the mac; for >> example, Firefox and Adobe Reader. But Apple is working on it. >> However, voiceover works well with most mac based programs such as >> TextEdit, I Mail, and all of Mac's menus and settings. I am going >> to e-mail you now a list of commands for voiceover and there is also a >> built in hands on tutorial on how to use voiceover but I will have to >> find it again. It is a bit hard to get used to especially being used >> to a PC but to learn the mac is well worth it. If you or anyone else >> has any questions about the mac please feel free contact me. >> Thanks, >> Isaiah >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 01:43:25 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:43:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver References: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <88EC1396B16A4B14AC1912714C720653@Ashley> Message-ID: <000501c9b659$146381e0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> thanks. Massage schools don't have housing. If they did they would be much more expensive. I am not sure why class doesn't get out until 10:30 but that's when it is skeduled to get out. I have thaught about moving closer but can't aford it and I would have to find another place to not only practice on client's but I would have to start my client base all over again and that is not easey to find people to practice on. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver > Hi Jim, > > Your suggestions are good. But some are not practical for some people. > Not all students can move closer because they have no where to go or > cannot afford it. Second, I believe this individual goes to community > college and dorms do not exist there. > Also not all classes are online; even if the college offers online classes > they may not be the credits this student needs. > > As to getting student and public support I agree. There is no reason a > class should end as late as 10:30. I've not heard of that before. I bet > professors hate teaching that late. Students often stay up late, but > safety wise many of them probably hate driving that late at night. > > I'm sure a driver will be found. Advertising in the paper should yield > results. > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 01:59:02 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 21:59:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene><0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> <003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <000b01c9b65b$432c5db0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> We got a class list but only after being in class and having everyone put there names and contact info on it and then the teacher making copies for everyone. I do see what you are saying. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't give >out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she >announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in the >first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of students >in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look up >their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually >standard college email addresses. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Serena, >> >> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class for >> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent wich >> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, more >> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them >> contact her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >> >> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable >> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rania" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I >>>> could try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people >>>> from the school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like >>>> that. As far as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even >>>> give it to me and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if >>>> someone from my ariea was able to let me car pull with them. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Linda Stover" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Rainia, >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>> Best of luck, >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>>> applied to >>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>>>> find >>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>> because the >>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>> Rania, >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>> driver. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a >>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to >>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't >>>>>>>>>>> want any >>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Apr 6 02:27:10 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:27:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver In-Reply-To: <000501c9b659$146381e0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <88EC1396B16A4B14AC1912714C720653@Ashley> <000501c9b659$146381e0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <20090405222710.0xk84r0jgg0ckgo8@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi, These are great suggestions (the ones from Jim, Ashley and others) worth considering. I'd leave any threatening or hostility as a very very last resort. You don't want to burn bridges unnecessarily, but definitely take these to heart Rania and anyone else who is considering looking into this. Rather than focussing on how the suggestions given on this topic won't work, try to find the positives. Sarah P.S.: Sorry Jim for the repeat message - I was hoping to send this one to the list and not you alon. Quoting Rania : > thanks. Massage schools don't have housing. If they did they would be > much more expensive. I am not sure why class doesn't get out until > 10:30 but that's when it is skeduled to get out. I have thaught about > moving closer but can't aford it and I would have to find another place > to not only practice on client's but I would have to start my client > base all over again and that is not easey to find people to practice on. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver > > >> Hi Jim, >> >> Your suggestions are good. But some are not practical for some >> people. Not all students can move closer because they have no where >> to go or cannot afford it. Second, I believe this individual goes >> to community college and dorms do not exist there. >> Also not all classes are online; even if the college offers online >> classes they may not be the credits this student needs. >> >> As to getting student and public support I agree. There is no >> reason a class should end as late as 10:30. I've not heard of that >> before. I bet professors hate teaching that late. Students often >> stay up late, but safety wise many of them probably hate driving >> that late at night. >> >> I'm sure a driver will be found. Advertising in the paper should >> yield results. >> >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 6 02:28:17 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:28:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver References: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><88EC1396B16A4B14AC1912714C720653@Ashley> <000501c9b659$146381e0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <76DF82B3BE2E4A8F9D93B12615BD1FE6@Ashley> Rania, You confirmed what I said. I did not think you had housing at this school As you point out it is not easy to just move closer to your school for financial and other reasons. Good luck. I'm sure if you keep searching something will work out. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver > thanks. Massage schools don't have housing. If they did they would be much > more expensive. I am not sure why class doesn't get out until 10:30 but > that's when it is skeduled to get out. I have thaught about moving closer > but can't aford it and I would have to find another place to not only > practice on client's but I would have to start my client base all over > again and that is not easey to find people to practice on. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver > > >> Hi Jim, >> >> Your suggestions are good. But some are not practical for some people. >> Not all students can move closer because they have no where to go or >> cannot afford it. Second, I believe this individual goes to community >> college and dorms do not exist there. >> Also not all classes are online; even if the college offers online >> classes they may not be the credits this student needs. >> >> As to getting student and public support I agree. There is no reason a >> class should end as late as 10:30. I've not heard of that before. I bet >> professors hate teaching that late. Students often stay up late, but >> safety wise many of them probably hate driving that late at night. >> >> I'm sure a driver will be found. Advertising in the paper should yield >> results. >> >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From cassonw at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 03:13:05 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 20:13:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. In-Reply-To: <003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca> <000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com> <006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> <0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> <003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904052013o5cc4c5ceya8e6b7d8f1d8a024@mail.gmail.com> I am not sure how standard this is, but my school sets up lists for each class which anyone in the class can email. for example: a music performance class number 101 section 01 in the fall of 09 would be, 09fa-mup-101-01 at school.edu. I would imagine that even if the students cannot use it i would think the professor can, this might be a good method of asking the whole cvlass without having to get names. Bill On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Serena wrote: > I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't give > out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she > announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in the > first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of students > in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look up > their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually > standard college email addresses. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > > Serena, >> >> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class for >> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent wich >> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, more >> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them contact >> her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >> >> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable >> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could try >>>> to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from the >>>> school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As far as >>>> geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to me and I >>>> would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my ariea >>>> was able to let me car pull with them. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" < >>>> liamskitten at gmail.com> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>> Rainia, >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>> Best of luck, >>>>> Courtney >>>>> >>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>>> applied to >>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>>>> find >>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>> because the >>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>> Rania, >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>> driver. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to >>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca < >>>>>>>>>> sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 03:23:15 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 23:23:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <000d01c9b667$06b9dae0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I am still looking because I found one but the person couldn't do it because it was to far for them so I am still looking. My classes 2 nights a week will be from 6pm to 10:30pm and I will also have weekends too. I am not sur why they have it in a hospital but that's ware it is. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Hi Rania, > > Since you posted this almost two weeks ago, I sure hope you found a driver > or at least are interviewing potential drivers. If not you need to be > more aggressive. What time does your class start? Why on earth does it > end at 10:30? That is late and a very odd ending time. > What sort of class is it? > I find it odd the classes take part in a hospital. > You are right the institution will not likely give you names of students; > that would violate their privacy. > Its too bad you cannot leave a flyer. That is a great way to get their > attention. > > You should put an ad in the paper. Contact local civic groups. Often > they want to do volunteer work. I am thinking the lions club or Kwanis > club or Rotery club. > If you end up hiring one, get one main one and a backup. Get not only a > resume, but references and ask the references questions. I suggest asking > for one professional and one personal. > > Now as to questions, you may want to ask a blind person who has hired a > driver before. I will say my suggestions come from someone who has not > hired a driver yet. I am suggesting things based on interviewing and > hiring readers and what I might do if I were hiring a driver. But with no > experience, my ideas may or may not work. I don't know since I have not > done it. > > That said, here are my ideas. You can internet research general interview > questions. Include a handful of general interview questions. These > include: > Tell me about yourself. What work experience do you have? If they had > several jobs, ask for the past five years. You don't need their hole work > history. > What interests you about this job? You can find more on the internet. > Then ask some specific questions to driving. When I was interviewing > readers I asked them if they had read before, what subjects they liked, > and if they had done much research. My point being I want to ask > questions to elicit responses about their qualifications and ability to do > the job. For a driver I might ask these: > > 1. Have you driven before? > 2. How long have you lived in the area? > 3. Do you own a GPS? > 4. Are you patient? > > I would pick about ten questions. You don't want to have too many. You > won't have this driver for life. The interview should last about 30 > minutes. You may want to ride around your community before hiring them to > see their driving style. I also agree you need a background check. That > is if hiring. If you get a volunteer from Lions club, they are honest > good hearted people. So I wouldn't do a check on them. > > HTH, > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 7:32 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and from school. >> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have never >> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking the rite >> questions. >> Thank you. >> Rania, >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3957 (20090324) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From iwilcox2011 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 03:26:12 2009 From: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com (Isaiah Wilcox) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 23:26:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver In-Reply-To: <20090406002704.29150.86505@web3.serotek.com> References: <20090406002704.29150.86505@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: Attached is the list of the VoiceOver commands. I hope this helps -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: VoiceOver Keyboard Commands.doc Type: application/msword Size: 34816 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Isaiah Wilcox President of the Georgia Association of Blind Students Phone: 404-291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 03:49:54 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 23:49:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Finding a driver References: <674486.92628.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><88EC1396B16A4B14AC1912714C720653@Ashley><000501c9b659$146381e0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <76DF82B3BE2E4A8F9D93B12615BD1FE6@Ashley> Message-ID: <000901c9b66a$c031fd60$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Thank you. I am still looking and am hoping something will work out. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver > Rania, > You confirmed what I said. > I did not think you had housing at this school As you point out it is not > easy to just move closer to your school for financial and other reasons. > Good luck. I'm sure if you keep searching something will work out. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver > > >> thanks. Massage schools don't have housing. If they did they would be >> much more expensive. I am not sure why class doesn't get out until 10:30 >> but that's when it is skeduled to get out. I have thaught about moving >> closer but can't aford it and I would have to find another place to not >> only practice on client's but I would have to start my client base all >> over again and that is not easey to find people to practice on. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finding a driver >> >> >>> Hi Jim, >>> >>> Your suggestions are good. But some are not practical for some people. >>> Not all students can move closer because they have no where to go or >>> cannot afford it. Second, I believe this individual goes to community >>> college and dorms do not exist there. >>> Also not all classes are online; even if the college offers online >>> classes they may not be the credits this student needs. >>> >>> As to getting student and public support I agree. There is no reason a >>> class should end as late as 10:30. I've not heard of that before. I >>> bet professors hate teaching that late. Students often stay up late, >>> but safety wise many of them probably hate driving that late at night. >>> >>> I'm sure a driver will be found. Advertising in the paper should yield >>> results. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From pyyhkala at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 05:21:42 2009 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 01:21:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Association of Blind Citizens To Webcast Authors Guild Protest From NYC Tue Apr 7 12:00 P.M. EDT Message-ID: <695ace540904052221n73b0a0beh1c7554780090537a@mail.gmail.com> New York City (Monday April 6, 2009) The Association of Blind Citizens, ABC, will produce a live webcast of the Reading Rights Coalition, RRC, protest being held at The Authors Guild in New York City. The webcast will begin on Tuesday April 7th between 11:45 A.M. and 12:00 P.M. EDT Listeners around the world can access the web page: http://blindcitizens.org/live which has information and links for listening to the live event. It is recommended that you access this web page prior to the event so that you can install the Talking Communities conference web browser component in advance. A flash based and mp3 stream may also be available at the above web address. The Reading Rights Coalition is a joint effort made up of 27 organizations representing upwards of 15 million Americans who are blind or otherwise unable to readily use traditional print. RRC organizations and members will collectively protest the discriminatory separate but not equal stance of the Authors Guild as it relates to Ebooks and the Amazon Kindle 2 text to speech audio feature. "The water company does not charge separate rates for the use of water depending on whether the consumer is drinking it or using it to wash dishes; it simply charges for the amount of water used. By the same token, an e-book is not inherently visual or aural, and to claim that reading it either visually or aurally should cost a different price is discriminatory." http://readingrights.org The RRC web site, above, has in depth information regarding the protest, an electronic peitition, and other background and resource material. The board of directors of ABC, as well as all RRC organizations collectively, encourage you to sign the online petition, attend the protest in person or virtually, and sign up on the RRC web page to receive action alerts and updates. Contact: Mika Pyyhkala Vice President Association of Blind Citizens Google Voice/SMS: (617) 202-3497 pyyhkala at gmail.com Micro Blog: http://twitter.com/pyyhkala From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 10:56:50 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 06:56:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene><0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley><003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904052013o5cc4c5ceya8e6b7d8f1d8a024@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002b01c9b6a6$6487af50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Wow. i have never herd of schools doing something like that. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >I am not sure how standard this is, but my school sets up lists for each > class which anyone in the class can email. for example: a music > performance > class number 101 section 01 in the fall of 09 would be, > 09fa-mup-101-01 at school.edu. I would imagine that even if the students > cannot use it i would think the professor can, this might be a good method > of asking the whole cvlass without having to get names. > Bill > > On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Serena wrote: > >> I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't give >> out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she >> announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in >> the >> first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of >> students >> in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look up >> their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually >> standard college email addresses. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < >> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >> Serena, >>> >>> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class >>> for >>> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent >>> wich >>> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, >>> more >>> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them >>> contact >>> her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >>> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >>> >>> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable >>> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >>>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I >>>>> could try >>>>> to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from the >>>>> school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As >>>>> far as >>>>> geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to me >>>>> and I >>>>> would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my >>>>> ariea >>>>> was able to let me car pull with them. >>>>> Rania, >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" < >>>>> liamskitten at gmail.com> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>> driver. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rainia, >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>>> Best of luck, >>>>>> Courtney >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>>>> applied to >>>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>>>>> find >>>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>>> because the >>>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a >>>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've >>>>>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to >>>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca < >>>>>>>>>>> sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you >>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't >>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 10:58:31 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 06:58:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><20090324213759.5115fmmv5wgggkkg@webmail.utoronto.ca><4383d01d0903242054r7e310589of94a04f64c42c999@mail.gmail.com><20090325013828.0zppod540g0000cc@webmail.utoronto.ca><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> <0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> Message-ID: <002f01c9b6a6$a07d1c70$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I am looking for a driver also so I have a way to get to orientation so I hopefully won't end up having to spend $100 to get there and back by a cab because i won't be able to aford that for long. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Serena, > > The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class for > privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent wich > may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, more > appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them > contact her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the > information and the professor send out the info to the class. > > But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable > and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rania" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I could >>> try to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >>> the school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. >>> As far as geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give >>> it to me and I would have to wait until orientation to find out if >>> someone from my ariea was able to let me car pull with them. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Linda Stover" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>>> Rainia, >>>> >>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>> Best of luck, >>>> Courtney >>>> >>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>> applied to >>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>>> find >>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>> because the >>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>> 10:30. >>>>> Rania, >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>> driver. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a potential >>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one for >>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've tried >>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to >>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you with >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't want >>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to be >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 11:01:25 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 07:01:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver References: <228367.29448.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9b568$16894190$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><000901c9b606$96e6b1d0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <29358D934C62482297F766A154E65691@Ashley> Message-ID: <003501c9b6a7$080886e0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Hi Para transit doesn't go that far. They do but only on certain days. It doesn't run passed 5pm and my class would be at 6. Ware I am know transportation except for a cab is running after 5:30 and on weekends. There is something called access link in my state but they don't go in my county. When I tried to sign up a while back they were quick to get me off the phone because they don't come to my county. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > Rania, > That would be frustrating. Why not use paratransit? Are they not in your > area? When I was a commuter to college I used paratransit and family for > my transportation. Moving to school eliminated the transit issue. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:52 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver > > >> Know i have not found one to start with. I feel like I am starting to >> become fustrateed because I haven't found one yet. I can't even find the >> number to my local lions club. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nathan Clark" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 10:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >> >> >>> ear Rani >>> Did you find your driver yet? You might want to find more than one >>> driver. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Nathan >>> >>> On 4/4/09, Rania wrote: >>>> Thanks. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jim Reed" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 4:01 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Criminal background check for hiring a driver >>>> >>>> >>>> hello, >>>> I am not a laywer so I dont know the legality of the following >>>> suggestion. >>>> But, most people with a criminal record will probably be detered from >>>> applying for a job if you make a strong statement that you DO criminal >>>> background checks and that you WONT hire anyone with a criminal record. >>>> Combine that statement with making applicants fill out a criminal >>>> background >>>> request form, and you can be reasonably certian that your applicants do >>>> not >>>> have a record. People have know way of knowing if you actually do the >>>> check >>>> or not. (you can "do" the check without "doing" the check) Lets face >>>> it, >>>> being a hired driver is not such a great job that people will go out of >>>> their way to apply for a job that they know they wont get. >>>> >>>> Otherwise, you could concider sub-contracting a driver through your >>>> local >>>> public transportation office. Or, you can try to find a driver from a >>>> pool >>>> of people whom you know have already passed a background check, such as >>>> government employees. >>>> >>>> hope this helps >>>> jim >>>> >>>> "Ability is of little account without opportunity." >>>> >>>> | >>>> -Napoleon Bonaparte >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 14:42:42 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:42:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver In-Reply-To: References: <20090406002704.29150.86505@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: While Firefox and Adobe Reader are not accessible with Voiceover at this time, Apple's proprietary applications (such as Safari for the Internet and Preview for PDFs) are accessible. Microsoft Word 2003 is not, but I do not know about 2008--in any event, Apple's own program, called Pages (which will export to a Word format) is accessible with Voiceover. Best of luck, Corbb From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 6 18:31:08 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 11:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] The true value of the NABS Message-ID: <94472.84482.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, I am new to the NFB/NABS, but I just wanted to say I am plesantly suprised, and rather proud to be affiliated with the NFB/ NABS. After seeing the widespread interest that so many people are taking in Raina's attempt to find a driver, who wouldn't be? It is rare to see so many random strangers come together to solve the problems of one random individual. The NABS has truely built a culture they can be proud of. It is nice to know there is a nation full of people whom I can turn to if I have a problem. You all should be very proud of yourselfs. You all truely reflect what is good about (and largely missing from) American society.  Keep it up Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From pyyhkala at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 19:42:36 2009 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:42:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Association of Blind Citizens To Webcast Authors Guild Protest From NYC Tue Apr 7 12:00 P.M. EDT Message-ID: New York City (Monday April 6, 2009) The Association of Blind Citizens, ABC, will produce a live webcast of the Reading Rights Coalition, RRC, protest being held at The Authors Guild in New York City. The webcast will begin on Tuesday April 7th between 11:45 A.M. and 12:00 P.M. EDT Listeners around the world can access the web page: http://blindcitizens.org/live which has information and links for listening to the live event. It is recommended that you access this web page prior to the event so that you can install the Talking Communities conference web browser component in advance. A flash based and mp3 stream may also be available at the above web address. The Reading Rights Coalition is a joint effort made up of 27 organizations representing upwards of 15 million Americans who are blind or otherwise unable to readily use traditional print. RRC organizations and members will collectively protest the discriminatory separate but not equal stance of the Authors Guild as it relates to Ebooks and the Amazon Kindle 2 text to speech audio feature. "The water company does not charge separate rates for the use of water depending on whether the consumer is drinking it or using it to wash dishes; it simply charges for the amount of water used. By the same token, an e-book is not inherently visual or aural, and to claim that reading it either visually or aurally should cost a different price is discriminatory." http://readingrights.org The RRC web site, above, has in depth information regarding the protest, an electronic petition, and other background and resource material. . The board of directors of NFB of Massachusetts, ABC, as well as all RRC organizations collectively, encourage you to sign the online petition, attend the protest in person or virtually, and sign up on the RRC web page to receive action alerts and updates. We urge you to widely circulate this information to your email contacts, personal and professional networks, and on vehicles such as Facebook and Twitter. Contact: Mika Pyyhkala Vice President Association of Blind Citizens Google Voice/SMS: (617) 202-3497 pyyhkala at gmail.com Micro Blog: http://twitter.com/pyyhkala From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Mon Apr 6 19:50:31 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:50:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The true value of the NABS In-Reply-To: <94472.84482.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <94472.84482.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090406155031.llt7s02zr48k4o8o@webmail.utoronto.ca> I agree 100%! A very true point Jim. Nothing like NABS or the NFB exists here in Canada so it was a treasure trove to find such great people from all over to give advice on a host of topics. I had lost a lot of faith in the blind/visually impaired community, particularly youth, and this list has reminded me that there is much to be hopeful for. Have a good day, Sarah Quoting Jim Reed : > Hello all, > I am new to the NFB/NABS, but I just wanted to say I am plesantly > suprised, and rather proud to be affiliated with the NFB/ NABS. > After seeing the widespread interest that so many people are taking > in Raina's attempt to find a driver, who wouldn't be? It is rare to > see so many random strangers come together to solve the problems of > one random individual. The NABS has truely built a culture they can > be proud of. It is nice to know there is a nation full of people > whom I can turn to if I have a problem. You all should be very proud > of yourselfs. You all truely reflect what is good about (and > largely missing from) American society.  > Keep it up > Jim > > "Ability is of little account without opportunity." > >  | > -Napoleon Bonaparte > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > From troubleclark at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 20:26:26 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:26:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. In-Reply-To: <002b01c9b6a6$6487af50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com> <006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> <0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> <003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904052013o5cc4c5ceya8e6b7d8f1d8a024@mail.gmail.com> <002b01c9b6a6$6487af50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Dear Rani Why can't you put a flyer in the paper or in the hospital. This is wrong and I think you should have the right to do that. Sincerely, Nathan On 4/6/09, Rania wrote: > Wow. i have never herd of schools doing something like that. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >>I am not sure how standard this is, but my school sets up lists for each >> class which anyone in the class can email. for example: a music >> performance >> class number 101 section 01 in the fall of 09 would be, >> 09fa-mup-101-01 at school.edu. I would imagine that even if the students >> cannot use it i would think the professor can, this might be a good method >> of asking the whole cvlass without having to get names. >> Bill >> >> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Serena wrote: >> >>> I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't give >>> out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she >>> announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in >>> the >>> first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of >>> students >>> in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look up >>> their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually >>> standard college email addresses. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < >>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>> Serena, >>>> >>>> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class >>>> for >>>> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent >>>> wich >>>> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, >>>> more >>>> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them >>>> contact >>>> her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >>>> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >>>> >>>> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very reasonable >>>> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your classes? >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because the >>>>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I >>>>>> could try >>>>>> to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from the >>>>>> school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. As >>>>>> far as >>>>>> geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to me >>>>>> and I >>>>>> would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my >>>>>> ariea >>>>>> was able to let me car pull with them. >>>>>> Rania, >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" < >>>>>> liamskitten at gmail.com> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>> driver. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rainia, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the last >>>>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you could >>>>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving your >>>>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>>>> Best of luck, >>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>>>>> applied to >>>>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I can't >>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>>>> because the >>>>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a >>>>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've >>>>>>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have to >>>>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca < >>>>>>>>>>>> sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you >>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up with >>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've applied >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 20:41:41 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 13:41:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] VoiceOver In-Reply-To: References: <20090406002704.29150.86505@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: <20090406204141.GA14864@yumi.bluecherry.net> Office 2008 is a lost cause. Joseph On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 10:42:42AM -0400, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > While Firefox and Adobe Reader are not accessible with Voiceover at this > time, Apple's proprietary applications (such as Safari for the Internet > and Preview for PDFs) are accessible. Microsoft Word 2003 is not, but I > do not know about 2008--in any event, Apple's own program, called Pages > (which will export to a Word format) is accessible with Voiceover. > > Best of luck, > Corbb From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 20:49:01 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:49:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><000501c9b4c3$955bbed0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene><0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley><003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene><26d2dfeb0904052013o5cc4c5ceya8e6b7d8f1d8a024@mail.gmail.com><002b01c9b6a6$6487af50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <000d01c9b6f9$1e7d2640$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I am going to contact newspapers and find out how much a day they would charge to let me put one in. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Clark" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Dear Rani > Why can't you put a flyer in the paper or in the hospital. This is > wrong and I think you should have the right to do that. > > Sincerely, > Nathan > > On 4/6/09, Rania wrote: >> Wow. i have never herd of schools doing something like that. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:13 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>>I am not sure how standard this is, but my school sets up lists for each >>> class which anyone in the class can email. for example: a music >>> performance >>> class number 101 section 01 in the fall of 09 would be, >>> 09fa-mup-101-01 at school.edu. I would imagine that even if the students >>> cannot use it i would think the professor can, this might be a good >>> method >>> of asking the whole cvlass without having to get names. >>> Bill >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Serena wrote: >>> >>>> I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't >>>> give >>>> out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she >>>> announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in >>>> the >>>> first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of >>>> students >>>> in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look >>>> up >>>> their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually >>>> standard college email addresses. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < >>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>> Serena, >>>>> >>>>> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class >>>>> for >>>>> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent >>>>> wich >>>>> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, >>>>> more >>>>> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them >>>>> contact >>>>> her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >>>>> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >>>>> >>>>> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very >>>>> reasonable >>>>> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>> driver. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your >>>>> classes? >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>> driver. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because >>>>>> the >>>>>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I >>>>>>> could try >>>>>>> to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. >>>>>>> As >>>>>>> far as >>>>>>> geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> and I >>>>>>> would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my >>>>>>> ariea >>>>>>> was able to let me car pull with them. >>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" < >>>>>>> liamskitten at gmail.com> >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rainia, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the >>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>>>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>>>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>>>>> Best of luck, >>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>>>>>> applied to >>>>>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I >>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>>>>> because the >>>>>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a >>>>>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've >>>>>>>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca < >>>>>>>>>>>>> sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've >>>>>>>>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From jj at bestmidi.com Mon Apr 6 23:56:30 2009 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:56:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Author's Guild Protest on Consumerist Message-ID: <397C572CA0214D3D8AB7DB41B199C871@jage> This is starting to get a lot of press coverage. Here's one example. There's a comments section if you wish to peruse or add to it. http://consumerist.com/5201030/national-federation-of-the-blind-mounts-protest-over-kindle-2-restrictions J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com A premier Licensed Code Factory distributor From snowball07 at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 01:26:01 2009 From: snowball07 at gmail.com (Snowball07) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:26:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Nokia N82 for sale Message-ID: Hey Nabsters, I have a newly refurbish Nokia N82 for sale. I had a bit of a klutz moment and broken the screen. It was sent out to the official Nokia store and had a new screen put in. The phone comes with original box, warranty, and charger. The silver N82 will also come with a transfer of Talks already installed upon it. I am going to include the Elite case for the N82, that it has been outfitted with also. I am looking to sell the phone because while waiting for it to get fixed, I acquire a Nokia N95, which I use exclusively now. Not really needing the phone, and being unwilling to watch such a nice piece of technology go unused, I am hoping to make it mutually beneficial for someone. Buy.com's asking price is $369, and I am selling this at $300 plus $20 for shipping, since it is used, even though it has been completely refurbished. Nokia returned the phone to me without a battery... Brand new Nokia batteries can be purchased at- http://cellularfactory.com/det.jsp?d=31320&c=71224 for$12.97 for the NOKIA N82 650mAh Standard Lithium Cell Phone Battery. $17.31 for the NOKIA N82 OEM Battery.http://cellularfactory.com/det.jsp?d=29317&c=71224 The battery comes with free shipping,for a limited time from the above website. If interested please email me at- janice.jeang at gmail.com Thank you very much! Kindest Regards, Janice Jeang From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 7 06:39:10 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 23:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] DEY STOLE R ACRONYM!!! Message-ID: <21734.24814.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I typed "NABS" into search engine and this is what I found: North American Benthological Society North American Bluebird Society National Association for Bank Security   And my personal favorite: National Association of Black Scuba Divers From nefamphetamine at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 19:28:01 2009 From: nefamphetamine at gmail.com (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:28:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Perhaps a bit OT but read anyway and help if you can Message-ID: <3d644bc30904071228w1a8f85f2iddb7a07af99766bc@mail.gmail.com> I’m putting together a resource for a friend who is losing her site. Might anyone be able to tell me of some blindness-related blogs? I know of Fred’sHead. There must be others. Please help. Thanks Nefertiti From fowlers at syix.com Tue Apr 7 22:03:16 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:03:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Perhaps a bit OT but read anyway and help if you can In-Reply-To: <3d644bc30904071228w1a8f85f2iddb7a07af99766bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d644bc30904071228w1a8f85f2iddb7a07af99766bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47E8698B221A4D978BE4F47EF7BE8023@angelab> I actually have put together a web site whose target audience is anyone who wants to learn about blindness, how we do things, what's available to us... You know, all that good stuff. The URL is www.syix.com/seeingwithoutvision Let me know if you find it helpful, or how I could make it better. Thanks Angela -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nefertiti Matos Olivares Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Perhaps a bit OT but read anyway and help if you can I'm putting together a resource for a friend who is losing her site. Might anyone be able to tell me of some blindness-related blogs? I know of Fred'sHead. There must be others. Please help. Thanks Nefertiti _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From dlawless86 at gmail.com Tue Apr 7 22:04:26 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 17:04:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] switching from pc to mac Message-ID: <423e6e460904071504s5d173372oc39e64a8a94c2263@mail.gmail.com> Dear Nabsters, I am currently in the market for a new computer and am seriously considering getting a macbook. I am currently renting one for a week to see what the accessability is like and whether or not I really want one. I am wondering what kind of problems you guys have run into as far as accessability, navigation, and software compatibility. I am also curious as to whether or not I really need windows virtual machine running JAWS or Window Eyes. I can easily get access to a desktop with Kurzweil and a scanner and I'm really not sure what else I need windows virtual machine for. If you guys can please e-mail me off list to share your thoughts on this matter I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! Domonique Lawless dlawless86 at gmail.com From liz.bottner at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 03:00:41 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 23:00:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Perhaps a bit OT but read anyway and help if you can In-Reply-To: <3d644bc30904071228w1a8f85f2iddb7a07af99766bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d644bc30904071228w1a8f85f2iddb7a07af99766bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49dc131b.1ac1f10a.4ef5.5a94@mx.google.com> There is blind access journal, www.blindaccessjournal.com. I know there are more, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. If I do, I'll shoot them your way. Take care, Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From troubleclark at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 16:34:40 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 12:34:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. In-Reply-To: <000d01c9b6f9$1e7d2640$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com> <006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene> <0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley> <003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904052013o5cc4c5ceya8e6b7d8f1d8a024@mail.gmail.com> <002b01c9b6a6$6487af50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <000d01c9b6f9$1e7d2640$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: Dear Rania good for you On 4/6/09, Rania wrote: > I am going to contact newspapers and find out how much a day they would > charge to let me put one in. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nathan Clark" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > > >> Dear Rani >> Why can't you put a flyer in the paper or in the hospital. This is >> wrong and I think you should have the right to do that. >> >> Sincerely, >> Nathan >> >> On 4/6/09, Rania wrote: >>> Wow. i have never herd of schools doing something like that. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Bill" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>> >>> >>>>I am not sure how standard this is, but my school sets up lists for each >>>> class which anyone in the class can email. for example: a music >>>> performance >>>> class number 101 section 01 in the fall of 09 would be, >>>> 09fa-mup-101-01 at school.edu. I would imagine that even if the students >>>> cannot use it i would think the professor can, this might be a good >>>> method >>>> of asking the whole cvlass without having to get names. >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>>> I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't >>>>> give >>>>> out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she >>>>> announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there in >>>>> the >>>>> first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of >>>>> students >>>>> in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and look >>>>> up >>>>> their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually >>>>> standard college email addresses. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < >>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Serena, >>>>>> >>>>>> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a class >>>>>> for >>>>>> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent >>>>>> wich >>>>>> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, >>>>>> more >>>>>> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them >>>>>> contact >>>>>> her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >>>>>> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >>>>>> >>>>>> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very >>>>>> reasonable >>>>>> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>> driver. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your >>>>>> classes? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I >>>>>>>> could try >>>>>>>> to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. >>>>>>>> As >>>>>>>> far as >>>>>>>> geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> and I >>>>>>>> would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from my >>>>>>>> ariea >>>>>>>> was able to let me car pull with them. >>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" < >>>>>>>> liamskitten at gmail.com> >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rainia, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the >>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you >>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>>>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>>>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>>>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are merely >>>>>>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope they >>>>>>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>>>>>> Best of luck, >>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school I >>>>>>>>>> applied to >>>>>>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I >>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>>>>>> because the >>>>>>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a >>>>>>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for one, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You do >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have one >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 19:48:17 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 15:48:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. References: <000a01c9abab$0bbc0ac0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><7949e5e20904032351j4a71c0d1n557dde2e6880a163@mail.gmail.com><006301c9b52a$b23c25f0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><005301c9b52f$78b77870$0501a8c0@Serene><0B735C439FC84603A8592B1ED3CCC248@Ashley><003501c9b647$4086d040$0501a8c0@Serene><26d2dfeb0904052013o5cc4c5ceya8e6b7d8f1d8a024@mail.gmail.com><002b01c9b6a6$6487af50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><000d01c9b6f9$1e7d2640$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <002501c9b882$f7c28730$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Thank you. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Clark" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. > Dear Rania > good for you > > On 4/6/09, Rania wrote: >> I am going to contact newspapers and find out how much a day they would >> charge to let me put one in. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nathan Clark" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 4:26 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >> >> >>> Dear Rani >>> Why can't you put a flyer in the paper or in the hospital. This is >>> wrong and I think you should have the right to do that. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Nathan >>> >>> On 4/6/09, Rania wrote: >>>> Wow. i have never herd of schools doing something like that. >>>> Rania, >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Bill" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:13 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a driver. >>>> >>>> >>>>>I am not sure how standard this is, but my school sets up lists for >>>>>each >>>>> class which anyone in the class can email. for example: a music >>>>> performance >>>>> class number 101 section 01 in the fall of 09 would be, >>>>> 09fa-mup-101-01 at school.edu. I would imagine that even if the students >>>>> cannot use it i would think the professor can, this might be a good >>>>> method >>>>> of asking the whole cvlass without having to get names. >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Serena >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I respectfully disagree. Although the college might say they won't >>>>>> give >>>>>> out the class list for privacy reasons, I say, oh well! How will she >>>>>> announce to the class about needing a driver if she can't get there >>>>>> in >>>>>> the >>>>>> first place? My profs. never had a problem giving me the names of >>>>>> students >>>>>> in the class. Once I had the names, I could simply go online and >>>>>> look >>>>>> up >>>>>> their info in the student directory. Plus, their emails were usually >>>>>> standard college email addresses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < >>>>>> bookwormahb at earthlink.net> >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:26 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>> driver. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The college may be reluctant to give out lists of students in a >>>>>>> class >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> privacy reasons. They would distribute this without student consent >>>>>>> wich >>>>>>> may cause probablems. If Rania wishes to contact students a better, >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> appropriate way is to announce the first day of class and have them >>>>>>> contact >>>>>>> her. Another way to contact them is email the professor with the >>>>>>> information and the professor send out the info to the class. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But asking the institution for a list of students is not very >>>>>>> reasonable >>>>>>> and as Rania said they would likely not disclose this information. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ashley >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:13 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Why on earth wouldn't they give you a list of students in your >>>>>>> classes? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 9:38 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Those are really great ideas but I can't leave a flyer up because >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> school is in a hospital. I tried asking about leaving a flyer so I >>>>>>>>> could try >>>>>>>>> to find someone that way but I was told that they the people from >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> school are not alowd to ask other students to do things like that. >>>>>>>>> As >>>>>>>>> far as >>>>>>>>> geting a list of students I am not sure they would even give it to >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> and I >>>>>>>>> would have to wait until orientation to find out if someone from >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> ariea >>>>>>>>> was able to let me car pull with them. >>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" < >>>>>>>>> liamskitten at gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 2:51 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rainia, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is it possible to get a list of students who will be taking the >>>>>>>>>> last >>>>>>>>>> class of the evening with you? My thought was that perhaps you >>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>> approach them, explain your situation, and ask if anyone was >>>>>>>>>> interested in carpooling. Also, what about putting up flyers on >>>>>>>>>> campus with your contact info and the time you would be leaving >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> last class, inquiring if there would be anyone interested, even >>>>>>>>>> someone who was taking another late night class? These are >>>>>>>>>> merely >>>>>>>>>> suggestions, and whether they prove successful or not, I hope >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> perhaps get you thinking of other options. >>>>>>>>>> Best of luck, >>>>>>>>>> Courtney >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 4/3/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Know I have not found one yet. I also found out that the school >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> applied to >>>>>>>>>>> has a campis that is a little closer but I am still stuck if I >>>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>> one because the classes would be at night. I can't take a train >>>>>>>>>>> because the >>>>>>>>>>> last one is at 10 in the evening and class doesn't get out until >>>>>>>>>>> 10:30. >>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 7:59 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions to ask when looking to higher a >>>>>>>>>>> driver. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rania >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>> Did you everfind a driver? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, Nathan Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any more questions I will be happy to answer them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Beth, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can get them online? Cool! I didn't know that. When a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential >>>>>>>>>>>>>> employer, for paid work or volunteering, has asked me for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>> had to go to my local police station and get one myself. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay for them, unfortunately, but it's necessary to have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> many job/volunteer position applications. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have a good day, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Beth : >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the best way to criminal record check smebody? I've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in the white pages and such, but there are no free >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> record checks websites I know of. Most of the time you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. Am I correct about the buying thing? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've never had to do this either, but you might want to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> records check done for them - ask them to submit one to you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resume and cover letter. Ask for references and follow up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're putting a lot of trust into this person and you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubts about them at all. Questions such as why they've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applied >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the position, why they think they'd be good at it, their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengths/weaknesses are a good idea. Also ask if they've >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences, or have any contact with people with visual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impairment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quoting Nathan Clark : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Rani >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ask them do you know this area well enough? Are you going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nathan Clark >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/23/09, Rania wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi I am trying to find someone to higher to drive me to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What questions can I ask so it is like an interview? I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interviewed anyone before so I want to make sure I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rania, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>>>>>>>> info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>>>> signature database 3988 (20090404) __________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From blindhistory at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 22:27:44 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:27:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] OT Message-ID: Does anyone know how to get a nametag off of a shirt? I went to an event where I wore a nametag and then walked out in the rain with the name tag on my shirt. I got part of the nametag off, but the sticky part is still stuck. Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks. Just to keep this school related sort of the Idaho student division has 5 members. -- Lora From spangler.robert at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 22:36:11 2009 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:36:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] switching from pc to mac In-Reply-To: <423e6e460904071504s5d173372oc39e64a8a94c2263@mail.gmail.com> References: <423e6e460904071504s5d173372oc39e64a8a94c2263@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49DD26DB.8030502@gmail.com> I actually wouldn't mind seeing responses to this message posted on-list. Domonique Lawless wrote: > Dear Nabsters, > > I am currently in the market for a new computer and am seriously > considering getting a macbook. I am currently renting one for a week > to see what the accessability is like and whether or not I really > want one. I am wondering what kind of problems you guys have run into > as far as accessability, navigation, and software compatibility. I am > also curious as to whether or not I really need windows virtual > machine running JAWS or Window Eyes. I can easily get access to a > desktop with Kurzweil and a scanner and I'm really not sure what else > I need windows virtual machine for. If you guys can please e-mail me > off list to share your thoughts on this matter I'd really appreciate > it. > > Thanks! > Domonique Lawless > dlawless86 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - Recording Secretary Ohio Association of Blind Students - President From amylsabo at comcast.net Wed Apr 8 23:35:04 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:35:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] victor stream help! Message-ID: <789302450.2595291239233704767.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello all, well, i finally this past week put the new version 3.0 onto my stream and i was trying with at least 3 sd cards to do this! all of my music was in order but, now it's all ramdom like in the shuffle mode. i have tried many times to fix this but, it won't work! so, i was wondering how do you put all of your music into subfolders by artist, album, or song? and how do you put the levels onto the stream too to do this feature? i don't want to reformat my sd cards so any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks again and i look forward to any assistance if possible! hugs, from amy From fowlers at syix.com Wed Apr 8 23:35:32 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:35:32 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C2AE19E59BA4E84873CB1D1FCD0479D@angelab> And the California Division has... Just covering my backside (grin) I believe you can use mayonnaise to get it off. Just rub some mayo into the sticky stuff and it should clean off. It works for getting rid of pine sap anyway. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 3:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] OT Does anyone know how to get a nametag off of a shirt? I went to an event where I wore a nametag and then walked out in the rain with the name tag on my shirt. I got part of the nametag off, but the sticky part is still stuck. Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks. Just to keep this school related sort of the Idaho student division has 5 members. -- Lora _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 00:04:35 2009 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:04:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sticky laundry dilemmas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <49dd3b99.02578c0a.05fa.3816@mx.google.com> Dear Lora, A product called GOOP, which is good on grease, gum, crayon, and even permanent ink has been a lifesaver to me as a mother of four. I have never had a problem with color loss and GOOP. You can buy it usually in the hardware or car sections of a store, it works to remove car and real bad grease from hands for mechanics. Another product I swear by especially for sticky labels is Goo-Gone. It takes off even the most terribly cemented price tags, but I have not tried it on clothes so don't know if there would be color damage. This is a testament to the fact that the average blind person has the same average laundry and life problems as the average sighted person, smile. Best, Carrie Gilmer, President National Organization of Parents of Blind Children A Division of the National Federation of the Blind NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 Home Phone: 763-784-8590 carrie.gilmer at gmail.com www.nfb.org/nopbc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 5:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] OT Does anyone know how to get a nametag off of a shirt? I went to an event where I wore a nametag and then walked out in the rain with the name tag on my shirt. I got part of the nametag off, but the sticky part is still stuck. Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks. Just to keep this school related sort of the Idaho student division has 5 members. -- Lora _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 00:21:11 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:21:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! Message-ID: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and they work fine. Beth From blindhistory at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 01:51:51 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:51:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sticky laundry dilemmas In-Reply-To: <49dd3b99.02578c0a.05fa.3816@mx.google.com> References: <49dd3b99.02578c0a.05fa.3816@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thanks I've never heard of the products so I'll have to try them out. On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > Dear Lora, > A product called GOOP, which is good on grease, gum, crayon, and even > permanent ink has been a lifesaver to me as a mother of four. I have never > had a problem with color loss and GOOP. You can buy it usually in the > hardware or car sections of a store, it works to remove car and real bad > grease from hands for mechanics. > > Another product I swear by especially for sticky labels is Goo-Gone. It > takes off even the most terribly cemented price tags, but I have not tried > it on clothes so don't know if there would be color damage. > > This is a testament to the fact that the average blind person has the same > average laundry and life problems as the average sighted person, smile. > > Best, > > Carrie Gilmer, President > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > www.nfb.org/nopbc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Lora > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 5:28 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] OT > > Does anyone know how to get a nametag off of a shirt? I went to an event > where I wore a nametag and then walked out in the rain with the name tag on > my shirt. I got part of the nametag off, but the sticky part is still > stuck. > Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks. > > Just to keep this school related sort of the Idaho student division has 5 > members. > > -- > Lora > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From blindhistory at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 01:54:25 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 19:54:25 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You have to put the books into the audio folder or the other book folder in order for it to work. Also when you get the book onto the stream you have to put in the code for the book. On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the > answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after > having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about > them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it > says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and > they work fine. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From dandrews at visi.com Thu Apr 9 02:35:19 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:35:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com > References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Do you have a RFB&D key? Where did you put the books? They belong in $vrdtb. Dave At 07:21 PM 4/8/2009, you wrote: >Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the >answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after >having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about >them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it >says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and >they work fine. >Beth > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From liz.bottner at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 02:45:29 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 22:45:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49dd6121.c6c1f10a.1203.54f6@mx.google.com> I think RFB books go into the DTB folder. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From habnkid at aol.com Thu Apr 9 03:19:04 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:19:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] switching from pc to mac In-Reply-To: <49DD26DB.8030502@gmail.com> References: <423e6e460904071504s5d173372oc39e64a8a94c2263@mail.gmail.com> <49DD26DB.8030502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49DD6928.7030702@aol.com> I agree. Robert Spangler wrote: > I actually wouldn't mind seeing responses to this message posted on-list. > > > Domonique Lawless wrote: >> Dear Nabsters, >> >> I am currently in the market for a new computer and am seriously >> considering getting a macbook. I am currently renting one for a week >> to see what the accessability is like and whether or not I really >> want one. I am wondering what kind of problems you guys have run into >> as far as accessability, navigation, and software compatibility. I am >> also curious as to whether or not I really need windows virtual >> machine running JAWS or Window Eyes. I can easily get access to a >> desktop with Kurzweil and a scanner and I'm really not sure what else >> I need windows virtual machine for. If you guys can please e-mail me >> off list to share your thoughts on this matter I'd really appreciate >> it. >> >> Thanks! >> Domonique Lawless >> dlawless86 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> >> > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 9 03:21:32 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 20:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Sticky laundry dilemmas Message-ID: <125045.42872.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I never herd of these products. There is also an orange-smelling product used for greese from repairing engins and it also works for removing stains from cooking. I think it is a sope mixture since it needs to mix with water. I will update this list when I find out what this product is called. --- On Wed, 4/8/09, Lora wrote: > From: Lora > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sticky laundry dilemmas > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 9:51 PM > Thanks I've never heard of the > products so I'll have to try them out. > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Carrie Gilmer wrote: > > > Dear Lora, > > A product called GOOP, which is good on grease, gum, > crayon, and even > > permanent ink has been a lifesaver to me as a mother > of four. I have never > > had a problem with color loss and GOOP. You can buy it > usually in the > > hardware or car sections of a store, it works to > remove car and real bad > > grease from hands for mechanics. > > > > Another product I swear by especially for sticky > labels is Goo-Gone. It > > takes off even the most terribly cemented price tags, > but I have not tried > > it on clothes so don't know if there would be color > damage. > > > > This is a testament to the fact that the average blind > person has the same > > average laundry and life problems as the average > sighted person, smile. > > > > Best, > > > > Carrie Gilmer, President > > National Organization of Parents of Blind Children > > A Division of the National Federation of the Blind > > NFB National Center: 410-659-9314 > > Home Phone: 763-784-8590 > > carrie.gilmer at gmail.com > > www.nfb.org/nopbc > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > > Behalf > > Of Lora > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 5:28 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > > Subject: [nabs-l] OT > > > > Does anyone know how to get a nametag off of a shirt? > I went to an event > > where I wore a nametag and then walked out in the rain > with the name tag on > > my shirt. I got part of the nametag off, but the > sticky part is still > > stuck. > > Any suggestions would be appreciated thanks. > > > > Just to keep this school related sort of the Idaho > student division has 5 > > members. > > > > -- > > Lora > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai > > l.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Lora > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 03:41:50 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 22:41:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] victor stream help! References: <789302450.2595291239233704767.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <8F4B6718F7774ECB9F4D900FFD2D9D67@Dezman> Amy, You can create subfolders in the $vrMusic folder using your PC. You switch between levels with the 2 and 6 keys on the stream. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Sabo" To: "NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS" Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 6:35 PM Subject: [nabs-l] victor stream help! > > hello all, > > well, i finally this past week put the new version 3.0 onto my stream and > i was trying with at least 3 sd cards to do this! all of my music was in > order but, now it's all ramdom like in the shuffle mode. i have tried many > times to fix this but, it won't work! > > so, i was wondering how do you put all of your music into subfolders by > artist, album, or song? and how do you put the levels onto the stream too > to do this feature? i don't want to reformat my sd cards so any help would > be greatly appreciated! > > thanks again and i look forward to any assistance if possible! > > > > hugs, > from amy > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 03:43:43 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 23:43:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <49dd6121.c6c1f10a.1203.54f6@mx.google.com> References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> <49dd6121.c6c1f10a.1203.54f6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904082043q537b9a3fvba02ada4b8ee3833@mail.gmail.com> THere are zip folders in the file though. Also, I wasn't asked to put in a code. I think you do that once you turn on the book anyway. But anyhow, I don't get a detection when I put the books in the $vrdtb folder. I've got a key for RFBD because DBS in Florida purchased the stream with it. Beth On 4/8/09, Liz Bottner wrote: > I think RFB books go into the DTB folder. > > Liz > > email: > liz.bottner at gmail.com > Visit my livejournal: > http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/lizbot > Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March > for Independence: > http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea > m&fr_id=1050 > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Thu Apr 9 03:44:18 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:44:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sign Reading Rights Coalition Petition! Message-ID: As you know, the National Federation of the Blind, NFB, is part of the Reading Rights Coalition, along with 29 (and growing) groups that support people with disabilities. The Reading Rights Coalition has been created to raise awareness about the Authors Guild and to support the 15 million print-disabled people in the US who are effected by their decision to turn off the text-to-speech function on the Kindle 2, stating that it violates copyright law. We are asking everyone to go to the petition Web site at http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-To-Read , sign the petition, and forward to all of your contacts. We are trying to get 10,000 signatures and are one third of the way there. Please help! David Andrews From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 11:04:13 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 07:04:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> Beth, I believe you need a buy the RFB&D Key for your VR Stream so that you can read their book on the VR Stream. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the > answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after > having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about > them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it > says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and > they work fine. > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 12:32:32 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 08:32:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> <3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904090532l60fbd412wdfa17e5fa69bb175@mail.gmail.com> The trouble is that DBS purchased the UAK for the books. I just got off the phone and RFBD said the VR streamasn't compatible with the downloadable books! Can you believe this? Beth On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: > Beth, > I believe you need a buy the RFB&D Key for your VR Stream so that you can > read their book on the VR Stream. Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:21 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > > >> Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the >> answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after >> having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about >> them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it >> says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and >> they work fine. >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 14:24:12 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:24:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904090532l60fbd412wdfa17e5fa69bb175@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com><3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> <4383d01d0904090532l60fbd412wdfa17e5fa69bb175@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Beth, Can you get the Books on CD from RFBD and copy the book on to the VR Stream the old fashioned way? Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > The trouble is that DBS purchased the UAK for the books. I just got > off the phone and RFBD said the VR streamasn't compatible with the > downloadable books! Can you believe this? > Beth > > On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: >> Beth, >> I believe you need a buy the RFB&D Key for your VR Stream so that you >> can >> read their book on the VR Stream. Jessica >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:21 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! >> >> >>> Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the >>> answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after >>> having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about >>> them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it >>> says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and >>> they work fine. >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 15:08:39 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:08:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] electronic books In-Reply-To: References: <20090406002704.29150.86505@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: I am curious where blind people typically obtain electronic files of their books? I know that Book share exists, but is there any reliable web resources that are both accessible and for purchase? I am asking for I am interacting with several Christian publishers, and one specifically is interested in understanding what a competitive E-file would look like. Although they are a small publisher, I am very excited that they are more than willing to assist me and create some business changes. However, I need some help in regards to pointing them in the right direction, and probably will need to test them out myself. Sincerely, Mandarino From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 23:10:32 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 19:10:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T How You Do It Message-ID: <4DC0BE23364042E4BA89DC493B2B33E0@Rufus> Listen up folks, Those of you graduating in May and joining the rest of us in the working world, this is how you make life less stressful. And, if you've got more school beyond this May, reading this amusing little article is how you postpone studying for those finals.--Joe Orozco Take a Day Off -- On the Clock By Steven Yang I use all my vacation days. I read in a self-help book last year that when you have a superior mind, you have to give it time to breathe. So I let mine breathe at comic book stores and "World of Warcraft" conventions. The problem is that when you're as bright as I am, you need more than the two weeks of vacation a year I get at this company. Six to eight would be about right. I usually blow through my vacation time by April or May, which means I need to find other ways to take time off. I'll be honest; I've gotten pretty good at it. I use a few different tactics, but here is the tried-and-true method that will always get me a day away from the office. I start out by sending an e-mail to everyone the night before that says I'll be in late the next day because I have a contractor coming over to give me an estimate on my floors (or something similar). I don't even own my apartment, but my boss isn't smart enough to catch on. So I get to sleep in and spend the morning eating cereal and watching cartoons. When I finally get into the office around 11, I surf the web for a while after putting up a sign on my door that says, "Extremely Busy, E-Mail Only Please." I counter that by setting my e-mail office assistant with a message that states I will be in and out of the office a lot today and will return your e-mail when I can. It's a thing of beauty. I also decline all meetings for the day and say that I have a conflicting "high-pri" meeting. Then I swing by my boss' office around noon and let him know that I have a doctor's appointment over lunch and that the office always runs slow. By this time, he's totally forgotten that I came in late because he's too busy checking his fantasy football team and kissing up to his manager. This buys me about three hours. Mind you, I still haven't done any work. My three-hour lunch starts at my favorite bar eating potato skins and knocking back a few vodka shots. The nice thing about vodka is that no one can smell it on your breath. Major score. I follow that up with a trip to the comic book store and then swing by the office for the rest of the day. I usually do this on Fridays because everyone is out by 4 (they have zero work ethic). So that puts me back in the office a little after three with an hour to go. I watch a few more viral clips on the Internet and then make the rounds to chat people up until it's time to go. This is "hideout" time because it's when my boss usually comes looking for me to do his work. While I don't have a ton of friends at work, I can usually find someone to talk to about movies or superheroes before I head out the back stairs for the day. All without ever even opening my e-mail. From pyyhkala at gmail.com Thu Apr 9 19:44:50 2009 From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:44:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Live Interview On Kindle Today at 5:06 P.M. Eastern - Please Listen & Post On Facebook/Twitter Message-ID: <695ace540904091244u41d56b1fy995f7accb2624817@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Here are the links to listen to the upcoming interview of Chris Danielsen of NFB on the Air America network. The interview will be on a show called Doing Time, and the link for todays show is: http://airamerica.com/doingtime Note that right now I am getting an error on this page, but it did display correctly earlier. The link to listen to the live stream is: http://airamerica.com/listen The interview is scheduled at approximately 5:06 P.M. today Thursday April 9. Please post on Twitter, Facebook, etc. Thanks, Mika Regards, Mika Pyyhkala Tel/SMS: (617) 202-3497 http://twitter.com/pyyhkala Facebook: http://profile.to/mika From MRiccobono at nfb.org Fri Apr 10 01:07:53 2009 From: MRiccobono at nfb.org (Riccobono, Mark) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:07:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking participants with visual or motor impairments for interview study Message-ID: ---------- We have been asked to post the following: ---------- From: vmwb-bounces at mailman2.u.washington.edu [mailto:vmwb-bounces at mailman2.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Chandrika Jayant Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:27 AM To: vmwb at u.washington.edu Subject: [vmwb] Seeking participants with visual or motor impairments forinterview study The University of Washington is seeking people with motor and visual impairments for an interview about your use of mobile devices. The study consists of a one hour interview followed by a series of brief (5 minute) surveys the following week. Please see the attached announcement for details. Contact Shani Jayant (cjayant at cs.washington.edu) or Shaun Kane (skane at u.washington.edu) for more information. Participants do not need to be in Seattle, this can be conducted over the phone and online. Thank you! Richard Ladner, Shani Jayant, and Shaun Kane __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3832 (20090206) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: official recruitment letter1.doc Type: application/msword Size: 13312 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JWilson at nfb.org Fri Apr 10 01:12:58 2009 From: JWilson at nfb.org (Wilson, Joanne) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:12:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: University of Nebraska Job Post Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Servan, Carlos R [mailto:carlos.servan at nebraska.gov] Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 4:02 PM To: Edward Bell; Schroeder, Fredric K.; Wilson, Joanne; Riccobono, Mark Subject: FW: University of Nebraska Job Post Do you know anyone who can apply to this job? Colleagues, The University of Nebraska at Lincoln (UNL) is recruiting a full-time instructor/coordinator for the Visual Impairments Teacher Preparation Program. Please share this with anyone who might be interested or would know someone who might be interested. The announcement is attached and is pasted below. 318 Barkley Memorial Center / P.O. Box 830738 / Lincoln, NE 68583-0738 / (402) 472-3956 / FAX (402) 472-7697 Instructor/Coordinator Visual Impairments Teacher Preparation Program The candidate will have the full range of responsibilities associated with being a an instructor and coordinator of a program at a research university such as teach graduate courses in special education-visual impairments and blindness; advise and supervise teacher certification and masters students in special education; conduct the teacher preparation program in vision impairments/blindness; pursue external funding; contribute to area, college, and university governance; and collaborate to deliver professional development activities statewide with lead agencies, schools, and stakeholders in vision impairments/blindness. Earned doctoral degree in Special Education or related area with emphasis in children and/or youth with visual impairments and blindness preferred. Required qualifications include earned masters degree in Special Education or related area with emphasis in children and/or youth with visual impairments and blindness; teaching at the post-secondary/higher education level; ability to advise and supervise practicum experiences for licensure and graduate students; established record for delivery of distance-education coursework/training; proven track record for collaboration with state and local education agency personnel such as state schools for visual impairments/blindness, departments of education, and local school districts. Criminal background check required. Excellent benefits including staff/dependent scholarship program. Applicant review will begin April 10, 2009. Apply at https://employment.unl.edu requisition 090131 and attach required documents. The University of Nebraska has an active National Science Foundation ADVANCE gender equity program, and is committed to a pluralistic campus community through affirmative action, equal opportunity, work-life balance, and dual careers. DEPARTMENT OF SPECIAL EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION DISORDERS -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: University of Nebraska Job Announcement.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 67270 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 10 01:52:20 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 21:52:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><537158152.10666401237346183031.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <26d2dfeb0903172255o5aabc466yd4aab91d42786ab1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1417ED076A6A43B5B7F7C1DB6470C81B@Ashley> Hi all, I use jaws 10. I have the recent version of itunes. However, I find a big accessibility problem. I thought it was going to be more accessible. After I search and play the song sample, I cannot buy it. I've been told there is a grey buy link you need to click on to buy the individual song. I cannot get jaws to find it. Jaws will let me find whole albums and buy them, but not songs. I'm hoping to find a number to call itunes and allert them to this problem. After I have sighted help to buy a song, I can navigate with jaws to play songs. If you find other inaccessible features, I hope you inform itunes. Only if multiple blind people complain will they change and make it friendly to nonvisual access. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > Hi all, > > first, Amy says that iTunes does not support mp3 this is incorrect. Also, > iTunes has made many improvements in accessibility in version 8 and i use > win-eyes 7 and the few glitches there seemed to be in version 8 orf iTunes > have been worked out in 8.1. note that iTunes is still not accessible to > version 6 of wineyes due to its lack of scrypting ability. I have heard > and > it seems to be the opinion of those on the list who use it, that version > 10 > of jaws works well with iTunes. > > As for iPods, the 4th generation iPod Nano has fully speaking menus and > track info. Note there are some features and settings are not spoken. > iTunes is required for this to work. it uses the default voice that is > set > in windows or the default voice set for voiceover in macs. > > Here is the link to the page on apples website pertaining to accessibility > for the iPod and iTunes. > http://www.apple.com/accessibility/itunes/vision.html > > Hope this is helpful. Feel free to email me if you would like more > details > Bill > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Amy Sabo wrote: > >> hello ashely and all, >> >> to answer your questions about the ipod and the itunes here it is along >> with my opinion on it too! the ipod in my mind isn't accessible at all >> and >> before jfw 10 came along the software wasn't accessible at all. but, i >> could >> be wrong on it since i haven't gone to it since the release of jfw 10 and >> played around with it myself. >> >> i would recommend if i were you to use a accessible mp3 player like the >> victor stream to listen to your music. it's soooo accessible in putting >> music onto the player. for putting the music onto the player the songs >> need >> to be in mp3 format and itunes doesn't support music in that format. >> >> so, that's my forte and 2 cents worth on this topic. but, i'm sure that >> others on this list will be happy to chime in with their comments and >> suggestion for this topic. take care and i will talk to you all soon! >> >> >> >> hugs, >> from amy >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:01:13 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >> visual >> display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are they? >> >> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently if >> i >> can. Thanks. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3945 (20090318) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From info at michaelhingson.com Fri Apr 10 01:55:14 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:55:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Purchasing A KNFB Reader Mobile? Message-ID: Are you considering the purchase of a KnfbReader Mobile or do you know someone who may be interested in buying one? If so, I would like to speak with you. Please remember that the National Federation of the Blind is the only National distributor of the Reader and its related products. For more information about the reader or to place an order please visit http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com or please call me, Mike Hingson, at (888) 965-9191. The current configuration of the Reader we are providing includes the KnfbReader software, the Nokia 6220 Classic mobile phone, and an optional screen reader either Talks or MobileSpeak. The software and phone cost $1,370.00. Either Talks or MobileSpeak cost $295.00. The entire package including the screen reader option cost $1,665.00 plus shipping. Don't forget that the Federation also offers a %3 interest rate technology loan should you need to finance your Reader purchase. Information about the loan is available on the web site given above. We also accept both Visa and MasterCard orders. Join the technology revolution today and go totally globally mobile. Please contact me if you need any information or have any questions about the Reader. I hope to talk with you soon. Cordially, Mike Hingson The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 10 01:55:18 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 21:55:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley> <978F0AE4EA8A401FB604568B7693C4D6@Gateway> Message-ID: <623F33A7255F42A0AAF4270C73CD1601@Ashley> JJen, I have jfw 10 and find access problems. I cannot access the buy song individually with the keyboard. Some of it is usable but not easy. It takes patience to tab through the buttons. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > Ashley, > > The Ipod Nano 4th Generation is accessible. It has spoken menus. > > Itunes is accessible, that is, the latest fversion. I've heard that it's > only accessible with JFW 9 and above, but I have JFW 7.1, and it works > fine for me. It's not what you might want to call "easy," but it's doable > as far as I can tell. > > Jen > > Shop my AVON online store > http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com > > Get healthy! > http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com > > Contact me: > > Jennifer Aberdeen > PO Box 1184 > Woonsocket, RI 02895 > 401-762-3258 (home) > 401-644-5607 (cell) > freespirit328 at gmail.com > SKYPE: J.Aberdeen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:01 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > >> Hi all, >> >> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >> visual display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are >> they? >> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently if >> i can. Thanks. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3946 (20090318) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From blindhistory at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 02:24:36 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 20:24:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> <3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> <4383d01d0904090532l60fbd412wdfa17e5fa69bb175@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes you can get the RFBD books on CD and download them the old fashioned way. Lora On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Jess wrote: > Beth, > Can you get the Books on CD from RFBD and copy the book on to the VR Stream > the old fashioned way? > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:32 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > > > > The trouble is that DBS purchased the UAK for the books. I just got > > off the phone and RFBD said the VR streamasn't compatible with the > > downloadable books! Can you believe this? > > Beth > > > > On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: > >> Beth, > >> I believe you need a buy the RFB&D Key for your VR Stream so that you > >> can > >> read their book on the VR Stream. Jessica > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Beth" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:21 PM > >> Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > >> > >> > >>> Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the > >>> answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after > >>> having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about > >>> them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it > >>> says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and > >>> they work fine. > >>> Beth > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 10 03:49:30 2009 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:49:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] electronic books Message-ID: <20090410034907.KKOI882.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> I get a lot of my books from audible.com You have to buy them, but they're usually worth it at the end because it's read by people. Hannah > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jason Mandarino" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:08:39 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] electronic books >I am curious where blind people typically obtain electronic files of their >books? I know that Book share exists, but is there any reliable web >resources that are both accessible and for purchase? >I am asking for I am interacting with several Christian publishers, and one >specifically is interested in understanding what a competitive E-file would >look like. Although they are a small publisher, I am very excited that they >are more than willing to assist me and create some business changes. >However, I need some help in regards to pointing them in the right >direction, and probably will need to test them out myself. >Sincerely, >Mandarino >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 04:49:40 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:49:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Message-ID: <2AA16BAEA13246779B08B0E83BA0B2F6@Rufus> Hello all, I'm going to be scheduling a teleconference for students interested in helping with the development of NABSLink. As I have previously said, I cannot devote my complete attention to it on account of other obligations on my schedule, but this is why I need you to help us carry the site into its next phase. Moreover, we are interested in recruiting the student who can take over primary management of the site. If you're interested, please e-mail me off-list. I am thinking about Sunday, April 19 at 7:00 PM Eastern, but when we have a group together we can negotiate the time. Thanks in advance. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3994 (20090407) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 04:56:17 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:56:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> <3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> <4383d01d0904090532l60fbd412wdfa17e5fa69bb175@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904092156i6a66f901k403bdfffb24d4b48@mail.gmail.com> Yep. I was told it wasn't compaible with the downloads, which is pretty stupid if you know what I mean.. Beth On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: > Beth, > Can you get the Books on CD from RFBD and copy the book on to the VR Stream > the old fashioned way? > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:32 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > > >> The trouble is that DBS purchased the UAK for the books. I just got >> off the phone and RFBD said the VR streamasn't compatible with the >> downloadable books! Can you believe this? >> Beth >> >> On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: >>> Beth, >>> I believe you need a buy the RFB&D Key for your VR Stream so that you >>> can >>> read their book on the VR Stream. Jessica >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:21 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! >>> >>> >>>> Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the >>>> answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after >>>> having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about >>>> them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it >>>> says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and >>>> they work fine. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From freedmas at stolaf.edu Fri Apr 10 08:10:24 2009 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble Message-ID: <922c02e40904100110v27413286n4913f9a48a395a2@mail.gmail.com> Greetings! For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! Pax, Sydney From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Apr 10 13:40:03 2009 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:40:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble In-Reply-To: <922c02e40904100110v27413286n4913f9a48a395a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sydney, Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this feature on by accident. How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. It is even different between models from the same company. For example, different models of Dell computers are different. However, here is an overview of how it generally works. Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that makes your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It acts as sort of another shift key. Normally, it provides access to keys that may not be on your physical keyboard and it also controls laptop functions as well. For example, on my Dell laptop, pressing the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act as PGUP and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held down make my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the keys you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to normal when I let it up. Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen or have someone handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these because there is usually one that turns off the sound. However, one of these function keys, together with the FN key, likely acts as a NUM LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this NUM LOCK key turns on the use of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even when the FN key is not pressed. If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your computer, you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK key. There may be a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it again should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might be able to make an educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your best bet is to know for certain if you can find the documentation. On my computer, the NUM LOCK key is emulated by FN with F4. I can accidentally hit this combination when pressing CONTROL F4, for example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. I use that as an example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. I hope this background helps you find an answer. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: >Greetings! >For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! >Pax, >Sydney >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 16:22:34 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:22:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IPod and iTunes In-Reply-To: <1417ED076A6A43B5B7F7C1DB6470C81B@Ashley> References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><537158152.10666401237346183031.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><26d2dfeb0903172255o5aabc466yd4aab91d42786ab1@mail.gmail.com> <1417ED076A6A43B5B7F7C1DB6470C81B@Ashley> Message-ID: I will double check, but just for a heads up. I believe it is I tune 9 that is suppose to be fully accessible, and is posted to be released around June. I am running whatever variation of I tunes 8 they have sent out, so I have not expected much difference with the accessibility. Step one was the Nanno, and next will be I tune. Also to encourage some patients, Apple is in the process of getting rid of their Digital Rights management. I have yet to find an alternative direction for their security, but if not replaced that will alleviate a lot of head aches for us. For when they finally are rid of that security we will have easier access to choose what products to interact with I tunes with. That is also my issue with the Amazon's Candle device, it is completely locked down, and we as consumers have no choice but to use or ignore that product. Does not leave much room for competition or choice. Sincerely, Mandarino -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes Hi all, I use jaws 10. I have the recent version of itunes. However, I find a big accessibility problem. I thought it was going to be more accessible. After I search and play the song sample, I cannot buy it. I've been told there is a grey buy link you need to click on to buy the individual song. I cannot get jaws to find it. Jaws will let me find whole albums and buy them, but not songs. I'm hoping to find a number to call itunes and allert them to this problem. After I have sighted help to buy a song, I can navigate with jaws to play songs. If you find other inaccessible features, I hope you inform itunes. Only if multiple blind people complain will they change and make it friendly to nonvisual access. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > Hi all, > > first, Amy says that iTunes does not support mp3 this is incorrect. Also, > iTunes has made many improvements in accessibility in version 8 and i use > win-eyes 7 and the few glitches there seemed to be in version 8 orf iTunes > have been worked out in 8.1. note that iTunes is still not accessible to > version 6 of wineyes due to its lack of scrypting ability. I have heard > and > it seems to be the opinion of those on the list who use it, that version > 10 > of jaws works well with iTunes. > > As for iPods, the 4th generation iPod Nano has fully speaking menus and > track info. Note there are some features and settings are not spoken. > iTunes is required for this to work. it uses the default voice that is > set > in windows or the default voice set for voiceover in macs. > > Here is the link to the page on apples website pertaining to accessibility > for the iPod and iTunes. > http://www.apple.com/accessibility/itunes/vision.html > > Hope this is helpful. Feel free to email me if you would like more > details > Bill > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Amy Sabo wrote: > >> hello ashely and all, >> >> to answer your questions about the ipod and the itunes here it is along >> with my opinion on it too! the ipod in my mind isn't accessible at all >> and >> before jfw 10 came along the software wasn't accessible at all. but, i >> could >> be wrong on it since i haven't gone to it since the release of jfw 10 and >> played around with it myself. >> >> i would recommend if i were you to use a accessible mp3 player like the >> victor stream to listen to your music. it's soooo accessible in putting >> music onto the player. for putting the music onto the player the songs >> need >> to be in mp3 format and itunes doesn't support music in that format. >> >> so, that's my forte and 2 cents worth on this topic. but, i'm sure that >> others on this list will be happy to chime in with their comments and >> suggestion for this topic. take care and i will talk to you all soon! >> >> >> >> hugs, >> from amy >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:01:13 +0000 (UTC) >> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >> >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >> visual >> display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are they? >> >> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently if >> i >> can. Thanks. >> >> >> >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n et >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3945 (20090318) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 17:42:08 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:42:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T How You Do It In-Reply-To: <4DC0BE23364042E4BA89DC493B2B33E0@Rufus> References: <4DC0BE23364042E4BA89DC493B2B33E0@Rufus> Message-ID: <20090410174208.GA56876@yumi.bluecherry.net> Joe, For some reason, this one's not funny. I think maybe I've had too many co-workers like that. Joseph On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 07:10:32PM -0400, Joe Orozco wrote: > Listen up folks, > >Those of you graduating in May and joining the rest of us in the working >world, this is how you make life less stressful. And, if you've got more >school beyond this May, reading this amusing little article is how you >postpone studying for those finals.--Joe Orozco > > Take a Day Off -- On the Clock >By Steven Yang > >I use all my vacation days. I read in a self-help book last year that when >you have a superior mind, you have to give it time to breathe. So I let mine >breathe at comic book stores and "World of Warcraft" conventions. The >problem is that when you're as bright as I am, you need more than the two >weeks of vacation a year I get at this company. Six to eight would be about >right. > >I usually blow through my vacation time by April or May, which means I need >to find other ways to take time off. I'll be honest; I've gotten pretty good >at it. I use a few different tactics, but here is the tried-and-true method >that will always get me a day away from the office. > >I start out by sending an e-mail to everyone the night before that says I'll >be in late the next day because I have a contractor coming over to give me >an estimate on my floors (or something similar). I don't even own my >apartment, but my boss isn't smart enough to catch on. So I get to sleep in >and spend the morning eating cereal and watching cartoons. > >When I finally get into the office around 11, I surf the web for a while >after putting up a sign on my door that says, "Extremely Busy, E-Mail Only >Please." I counter that by setting my e-mail office assistant with a message >that states I will be in and out of the office a lot today and will return >your e-mail when I can. It's a thing of beauty. I also decline all meetings >for the day and say that I have a conflicting "high-pri" meeting. > >Then I swing by my boss' office around noon and let him know that I have a >doctor's appointment over lunch and that the office always runs slow. By >this time, he's totally forgotten that I came in late because he's too busy >checking his fantasy football team and kissing up to his manager. This buys >me about three hours. Mind you, I still haven't done any work. > >My three-hour lunch starts at my favorite bar eating potato skins and >knocking back a few vodka shots. The nice thing about vodka is that no one >can smell it on your breath. Major score. I follow that up with a trip to >the comic book store and then swing by the office for the rest of the day. I >usually do this on Fridays because everyone is out by 4 (they have zero work >ethic). So that puts me back in the office a little after three with an hour >to go. I watch a few more viral clips on the Internet and then make the >rounds to chat people up until it's time to go. This is "hideout" time >because it's when my boss usually comes looking for me to do his work. While >I don't have a ton of friends at work, I can usually find someone to talk to >about movies or superheroes before I head out the back stairs for the day. > >All without ever even opening my e-mail. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 19:44:25 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:44:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble References: Message-ID: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> That's interesting. I have a dell labtop and have never herd of an FN key before. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > Sydney, > > Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a > sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this > feature on by accident. > How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. It > is even different between models from the same company. For example, > different models of > Dell computers are different. However, here is an overview of how it > generally works. > > Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that makes > your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It acts as > sort of another shift > key. Normally, it provides access to keys that may not be on your > physical keyboard and it also controls laptop functions as well. For > example, on my Dell laptop, > pressing the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act as > PGUP and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held > down make my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the > keys you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to > normal when I > let it up. > > Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of > laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen or > have someone > handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these because there is > usually one that turns off the sound. However, one of these function > keys, together with the > FN key, likely acts as a NUM LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this NUM > LOCK key turns on the use of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even > when the > FN key is not pressed. > > If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your computer, > you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK key. > There may be > a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it again > should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might be able to > make an > educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your best bet is to know > for certain if you can find the documentation. On my computer, the NUM > LOCK key is > emulated by FN with F4. I can accidentally hit this combination when > pressing CONTROL F4, for example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. > I use that as an > example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. > > I hope this background helps you find an answer. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: > >>Greetings! > >>For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >>it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >>the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >>is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >>Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >>why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >>BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! > >>Pax, >>Sydney > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From freespirit328 at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 19:46:18 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:46:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><978F0AE4EA8A401FB604568B7693C4D6@Gateway> <623F33A7255F42A0AAF4270C73CD1601@Ashley> Message-ID: <02582627A3A64780932A881A3E7F0D2B@Gateway> Ashley, I have experienced what you are talking about. For example, the other day I tried purchasing the movie "Twilight" from Itunes. I never purchased it, let alone downloaded it. I couldn't figure it out and didn't have the patience. Now there's an issue with my Mano 4th Gen too. A message comes up saying that I have no more room for more music, but there's only eleven MP3's on it. It's got 16 GB, so I don't buy it. I think I need to remove everyone on it and start all over again, but of course, I can't figure that out for the life of me. Anyway, sorry for the rant...I'm just so frustrated. Jen Shop my AVON online store http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com Get healthy! http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com Contact me: Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-762-3258 (home) 401-644-5607 (cell) freespirit328 at gmail.com SKYPE: J.Aberdeen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > JJen, > I have jfw 10 and find access problems. I cannot access the buy song > individually with the keyboard. Some of it is usable but not easy. It > takes patience to tab through the buttons. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > >> Ashley, >> >> The Ipod Nano 4th Generation is accessible. It has spoken menus. >> >> Itunes is accessible, that is, the latest fversion. I've heard that it's >> only accessible with JFW 9 and above, but I have JFW 7.1, and it works >> fine for me. It's not what you might want to call "easy," but it's doable >> as far as I can tell. >> >> Jen >> >> Shop my AVON online store >> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com >> >> Get healthy! >> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com >> >> Contact me: >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen >> PO Box 1184 >> Woonsocket, RI 02895 >> 401-762-3258 (home) >> 401-644-5607 (cell) >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:01 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >>> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >>> visual display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are >>> they? >>> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently >>> if i can. Thanks. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3946 (20090318) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 20:16:28 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:16:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes In-Reply-To: <02582627A3A64780932A881A3E7F0D2B@Gateway> References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><978F0AE4EA8A401FB604568B7693C4D6@Gateway><623F33A7255F42A0AAF4270C73CD1601@Ashley> <02582627A3A64780932A881A3E7F0D2B@Gateway> Message-ID: Hey Jen, You should be able to access your Nanno from "my computer," and look at your mp3 under their appropriate folder. I'll ask some friends, but I was told that it has been mapped with the computer, and should display under the "my computer," folder. Mandarino -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Aberdeen Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:46 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes Ashley, I have experienced what you are talking about. For example, the other day I tried purchasing the movie "Twilight" from Itunes. I never purchased it, let alone downloaded it. I couldn't figure it out and didn't have the patience. Now there's an issue with my Mano 4th Gen too. A message comes up saying that I have no more room for more music, but there's only eleven MP3's on it. It's got 16 GB, so I don't buy it. I think I need to remove everyone on it and start all over again, but of course, I can't figure that out for the life of me. Anyway, sorry for the rant...I'm just so frustrated. Jen Shop my AVON online store http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com Get healthy! http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com Contact me: Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-762-3258 (home) 401-644-5607 (cell) freespirit328 at gmail.com SKYPE: J.Aberdeen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > JJen, > I have jfw 10 and find access problems. I cannot access the buy song > individually with the keyboard. Some of it is usable but not easy. It > takes patience to tab through the buttons. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > >> Ashley, >> >> The Ipod Nano 4th Generation is accessible. It has spoken menus. >> >> Itunes is accessible, that is, the latest fversion. I've heard that it's >> only accessible with JFW 9 and above, but I have JFW 7.1, and it works >> fine for me. It's not what you might want to call "easy," but it's doable >> as far as I can tell. >> >> Jen >> >> Shop my AVON online store >> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com >> >> Get healthy! >> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com >> >> Contact me: >> >> Jennifer Aberdeen >> PO Box 1184 >> Woonsocket, RI 02895 >> 401-762-3258 (home) >> 401-644-5607 (cell) >> freespirit328 at gmail.com >> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:01 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >>> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >>> visual display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are >>> they? >>> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently >>> if i can. Thanks. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmai l.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3946 (20090318) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmai l.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 10 20:29:48 2009 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:29:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble In-Reply-To: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: This key is on all laptop computers FN is function key. The function key plus other keys allow you to do things on the laptop computer. On my Dell laptop if I press FN the function key and either up or town arrow keys the screen display changes from bright to dark. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 12:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble That's interesting. I have a dell labtop and have never herd of an FN key before. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:40 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > Sydney, > > Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a > sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this > feature on by accident. > How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. > It is even different between models from the same company. For > example, different models of Dell computers are different. However, > here is an overview of how it generally works. > > Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that > makes your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It > acts as sort of another shift key. Normally, it provides access to > keys that may not be on your physical keyboard and it also controls > laptop functions as well. For example, on my Dell laptop, pressing > the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act as PGUP > and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held down make > my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the keys > you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to > normal when I let it up. > > Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of > laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen > or have someone handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these > because there is usually one that turns off the sound. However, one > of these function keys, together with the FN key, likely acts as a NUM > LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this NUM LOCK key turns on the use > of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even when the FN key is not > pressed. > > If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your > computer, you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK key. > There may be > a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it > again should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might > be able to make an educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your > best bet is to know for certain if you can find the documentation. On > my computer, the NUM LOCK key is emulated by FN with F4. I can > accidentally hit this combination when pressing CONTROL F4, for > example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. > I use that as an > example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. > > I hope this background helps you find an answer. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: > >>Greetings! > >>For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >>it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >>the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >>is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >>Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >>why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >>BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! > >>Pax, >>Sydney > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson >>%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04% > 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 10 20:48:21 2009 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 16:48:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] IPod and iTunes In-Reply-To: References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><537158152.10666401237346183031.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><26d2dfeb0903172255o5aabc466yd4aab91d42786ab1@mail.gmail.com> <1417ED076A6A43B5B7F7C1DB6470C81B@Ashley> Message-ID: ITunes 8 is accessible. I have an iPod Shuffle. I have downloaded songs using itunes 8 Albert > From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:22:34 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] IPod and iTunes > > I will double check, but just for a heads up. > > I believe it is I tune 9 that is suppose to be fully accessible, and is > posted to be released around June. I am running whatever variation of I > tunes 8 they have sent out, so I have not expected much difference with the > accessibility. Step one was the Nanno, and next will be I tune. Also to > encourage some patients, Apple is in the process of getting rid of their > Digital Rights management. I have yet to find an alternative direction for > their security, but if not replaced that will alleviate a lot of head aches > for us. For when they finally are rid of that security we will have easier > access to choose what products to interact with I tunes with. That is also > my issue with the Amazon's Candle device, it is completely locked down, and > we as consumers have no choice but to use or ignore that product. Does not > leave much room for competition or choice. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:52 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > Hi all, > I use jaws 10. I have the recent version of itunes. > However, I find a big accessibility problem. I thought it was going to be > more accessible. > After I search and play the song sample, I cannot buy it. I've been told > there is a grey buy link you need to click on to buy the individual song. I > > cannot get jaws to find it. Jaws will let me find whole albums and buy > them, but not songs. I'm hoping to find a number to call itunes and allert > them to this problem. After I have sighted help to buy a song, I can > navigate with jaws to play songs. > > If you find other inaccessible features, I hope you inform itunes. Only if > multiple blind people complain will they change and make it friendly to > nonvisual access. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:55 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > > > Hi all, > > > > first, Amy says that iTunes does not support mp3 this is incorrect. Also, > > iTunes has made many improvements in accessibility in version 8 and i use > > win-eyes 7 and the few glitches there seemed to be in version 8 orf iTunes > > have been worked out in 8.1. note that iTunes is still not accessible to > > version 6 of wineyes due to its lack of scrypting ability. I have heard > > and > > it seems to be the opinion of those on the list who use it, that version > > 10 > > of jaws works well with iTunes. > > > > As for iPods, the 4th generation iPod Nano has fully speaking menus and > > track info. Note there are some features and settings are not spoken. > > iTunes is required for this to work. it uses the default voice that is > > set > > in windows or the default voice set for voiceover in macs. > > > > Here is the link to the page on apples website pertaining to accessibility > > for the iPod and iTunes. > > http://www.apple.com/accessibility/itunes/vision.html > > > > Hope this is helpful. Feel free to email me if you would like more > > details > > Bill > > > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Amy Sabo wrote: > > > >> hello ashely and all, > >> > >> to answer your questions about the ipod and the itunes here it is along > >> with my opinion on it too! the ipod in my mind isn't accessible at all > >> and > >> before jfw 10 came along the software wasn't accessible at all. but, i > >> could > >> be wrong on it since i haven't gone to it since the release of jfw 10 and > >> played around with it myself. > >> > >> i would recommend if i were you to use a accessible mp3 player like the > >> victor stream to listen to your music. it's soooo accessible in putting > >> music onto the player. for putting the music onto the player the songs > >> need > >> to be in mp3 format and itunes doesn't support music in that format. > >> > >> so, that's my forte and 2 cents worth on this topic. but, i'm sure that > >> others on this list will be happy to chime in with their comments and > >> suggestion for this topic. take care and i will talk to you all soon! > >> > >> > >> > >> hugs, > >> from amy > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> > >> From: Ashley Bramlett > >> > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >> > >> Sent: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:01:13 +0000 (UTC) > >> > >> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > >> > >> > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> > >> > >> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I > >> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no > >> visual > >> display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are they? > >> > >> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently if > > >> i > >> can. Thanks. > >> > >> > >> > >> Ashley > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n > et > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > > signature database 3945 (20090318) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile1_042009 From dandrews at visi.com Fri Apr 10 20:55:13 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:55:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904092156i6a66f901k403bdfffb24d4b48@mail.gmail.co m> References: <4383d01d0904081721te460549x60c4e8e21c4836d8@mail.gmail.com> <3C1B675BDDBC4DC1B48A45A4F4EC2524@Jessica> <4383d01d0904090532l60fbd412wdfa17e5fa69bb175@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0904092156i6a66f901k403bdfffb24d4b48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Their downloadable format is protected WMA files, which the Stream doesn't support. Their current downloadable format is primarily aimed at their learning disabled customers, as it doesn't support full navigation like DAISY books. I understand they are coming out with downloadable DAISY books later this year. Dave At 11:56 PM 4/9/2009, you wrote: >Yep. I was told it wasn't compaible with the downloads, which is >pretty stupid if you know what I mean.. >Beth > >On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: > > Beth, > > Can you get the Books on CD from RFBD and copy the book on to the VR Stream > > the old fashioned way? > > Jessica > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Beth" > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:32 AM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > > > > > >> The trouble is that DBS purchased the UAK for the books. I just got > >> off the phone and RFBD said the VR streamasn't compatible with the > >> downloadable books! Can you believe this? > >> Beth > >> > >> On 4/9/09, Jess wrote: > >>> Beth, > >>> I believe you need a buy the RFB&D Key for your VR Stream so that you > >>> can > >>> read their book on the VR Stream. Jessica > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Beth" > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:21 PM > >>> Subject: [nabs-l] My VR stream won't detect my books! HELP! > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hi, guys. Those of you who have VR streams would probably know the > >>>> answer to this question: what is wrong with my VR stream if, after > >>>> having transfered my RFBD books on to it, it still says nothing about > >>>> them? Like, I'll try and navigate through the bookshelves, and it > >>>> says, "Music, 1 book, all music." I put two music files on there, and > >>>> they work fine. > >>>> Beth > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com David Andrews and white cane Harry. From freespirit328 at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 21:31:47 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:31:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><978F0AE4EA8A401FB604568B7693C4D6@Gateway><623F33A7255F42A0AAF4270C73CD1601@Ashley><02582627A3A64780932A881A3E7F0D2B@Gateway> Message-ID: <5AB1C1BDD3D84EEA9C51FD15C047EDEC@Gateway> Hi Jason, Thanks for the suggestion. I did look, but for some reason, for the Nano, there isn't anything I can click on to view fies on the device. I can do that with no problem with my MP3 Zenstone, but not with this thing. If you find anything else out, please let me know. I really appreciate your help. Jen Shop my AVON online store http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com Get healthy! http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com Contact me: Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-762-3258 (home) 401-644-5607 (cell) freespirit328 at gmail.com SKYPE: J.Aberdeen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > Hey Jen, > > You should be able to access your Nanno from "my computer," and look at > your > mp3 under their appropriate folder. I'll ask some friends, but I was told > that it has been mapped with the computer, and should display under the > "my > computer," folder. > > Mandarino > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > Ashley, > > I have experienced what you are talking about. For example, the other day > I > tried purchasing the movie "Twilight" from Itunes. I never purchased it, > let > > alone downloaded it. I couldn't figure it out and didn't have the > patience. > Now there's an issue with my Mano 4th Gen too. A message comes up saying > that I have no more room for more music, but there's only eleven MP3's on > it. It's got 16 GB, so I don't buy it. I think I need to remove everyone > on > it and start all over again, but of course, I can't figure that out for > the > life of me. > > Anyway, sorry for the rant...I'm just so frustrated. > > Jen > > Shop my AVON online store > http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com > > Get healthy! > http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com > > Contact me: > > Jennifer Aberdeen > PO Box 1184 > Woonsocket, RI 02895 > 401-762-3258 (home) > 401-644-5607 (cell) > freespirit328 at gmail.com > SKYPE: J.Aberdeen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > >> JJen, >> I have jfw 10 and find access problems. I cannot access the buy song >> individually with the keyboard. Some of it is usable but not easy. It >> takes patience to tab through the buttons. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >> >> >>> Ashley, >>> >>> The Ipod Nano 4th Generation is accessible. It has spoken menus. >>> >>> Itunes is accessible, that is, the latest fversion. I've heard that it's >>> only accessible with JFW 9 and above, but I have JFW 7.1, and it works >>> fine for me. It's not what you might want to call "easy," but it's >>> doable > >>> as far as I can tell. >>> >>> Jen >>> >>> Shop my AVON online store >>> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com >>> >>> Get healthy! >>> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com >>> >>> Contact me: >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen >>> PO Box 1184 >>> Woonsocket, RI 02895 >>> 401-762-3258 (home) >>> 401-644-5607 (cell) >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:01 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >>>> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >>>> visual display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are >>>> they? >>>> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently >>>> if i can. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmai > l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3946 (20090318) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > From freedmas at stolaf.edu Fri Apr 10 22:08:08 2009 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:08:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble In-Reply-To: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <922c02e40904101508o19e8d79bic223f534c711def3@mail.gmail.com> Yes. i did know of the laptop keys being able to switch, but i couldn't figure out how I had actually switched them. I tried the fn key and such and then finally figured out that there is actually a numlock key to the left of my insert key. :) So, problem solved! Sydney On 4/10/09, Rania wrote: > That's interesting. I have a dell labtop and have never herd of an FN key > before. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Jacobson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:40 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > > >> Sydney, >> >> Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a >> sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this >> feature on by accident. >> How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. It >> is even different between models from the same company. For example, >> different models of >> Dell computers are different. However, here is an overview of how it >> generally works. >> >> Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that makes >> your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It acts as >> sort of another shift >> key. Normally, it provides access to keys that may not be on your >> physical keyboard and it also controls laptop functions as well. For >> example, on my Dell laptop, >> pressing the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act as >> PGUP and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held >> down make my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the >> keys you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to >> normal when I >> let it up. >> >> Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of >> laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen or >> have someone >> handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these because there is >> usually one that turns off the sound. However, one of these function >> keys, together with the >> FN key, likely acts as a NUM LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this NUM >> LOCK key turns on the use of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even >> when the >> FN key is not pressed. >> >> If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your computer, >> you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK key. >> There may be >> a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it again >> >> should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might be able to >> make an >> educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your best bet is to know >> for certain if you can find the documentation. On my computer, the NUM >> LOCK key is >> emulated by FN with F4. I can accidentally hit this combination when >> pressing CONTROL F4, for example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. >> I use that as an >> example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. >> >> I hope this background helps you find an answer. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: >> >>>Greetings! >> >>>For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >>>it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >>>the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >>>is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >>>Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >>>why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >>>BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! >> >>>Pax, >>>Sydney >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Apr 10 23:27:35 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:27:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble References: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <002d01c9ba33$ee874270$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I am wondering if my control key can work as both in that case because when I hold the control key down and use the up or down arrows it changes the screene from light to dark. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Struiksma" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > This key is on all laptop computers FN is function key. The function key > plus other keys allow you to do things on the laptop computer. On my Dell > laptop if I press FN the function key and either up or town arrow keys the > screen display changes from bright to dark. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Rania > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 12:44 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > > That's interesting. I have a dell labtop and have never herd of an FN key > before. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Jacobson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:40 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > > >> Sydney, >> >> Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a >> sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this >> feature on by accident. >> How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. >> It is even different between models from the same company. For >> example, different models of Dell computers are different. However, >> here is an overview of how it generally works. >> >> Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that >> makes your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It >> acts as sort of another shift key. Normally, it provides access to >> keys that may not be on your physical keyboard and it also controls >> laptop functions as well. For example, on my Dell laptop, pressing >> the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act as PGUP >> and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held down make >> my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the keys >> you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to >> normal when I let it up. >> >> Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of >> laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen >> or have someone handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these >> because there is usually one that turns off the sound. However, one >> of these function keys, together with the FN key, likely acts as a NUM >> LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this NUM LOCK key turns on the use >> of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even when the FN key is not >> pressed. >> >> If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your >> computer, you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK > key. >> There may be >> a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it >> again should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might >> be able to make an educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your >> best bet is to know for certain if you can find the documentation. On >> my computer, the NUM LOCK key is emulated by FN with F4. I can >> accidentally hit this combination when pressing CONTROL F4, for >> example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. >> I use that as an >> example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. >> >> I hope this background helps you find an answer. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: >> >>>Greetings! >> >>>For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >>>it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >>>the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >>>is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >>>Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >>>why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >>>BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! >> >>>Pax, >>>Sydney >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson >>>%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04% >> 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 00:35:27 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:35:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble References: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <922c02e40904101508o19e8d79bic223f534c711def3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01c9ba3d$8eda1c80$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Glad to see you were able to fix it. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > Yes. i did know of the laptop keys being able to switch, but i > couldn't figure out how I had actually switched them. I tried the fn > key and such and then finally figured out that there is actually a > numlock key to the left of my insert key. :) So, problem solved! > > Sydney > > On 4/10/09, Rania wrote: >> That's interesting. I have a dell labtop and have never herd of an FN key >> before. >> Rania, >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Jacobson" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:40 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble >> >> >>> Sydney, >>> >>> Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a >>> sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this >>> feature on by accident. >>> How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. It >>> is even different between models from the same company. For example, >>> different models of >>> Dell computers are different. However, here is an overview of how it >>> generally works. >>> >>> Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that makes >>> your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It acts as >>> sort of another shift >>> key. Normally, it provides access to keys that may not be on your >>> physical keyboard and it also controls laptop functions as well. For >>> example, on my Dell laptop, >>> pressing the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act >>> as >>> PGUP and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held >>> down make my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the >>> keys you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to >>> normal when I >>> let it up. >>> >>> Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of >>> laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen or >>> have someone >>> handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these because there is >>> usually one that turns off the sound. However, one of these function >>> keys, together with the >>> FN key, likely acts as a NUM LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this >>> NUM >>> LOCK key turns on the use of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even >>> when the >>> FN key is not pressed. >>> >>> If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your computer, >>> you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK key. >>> There may be >>> a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it >>> again >>> >>> should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might be able >>> to >>> make an >>> educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your best bet is to know >>> for certain if you can find the documentation. On my computer, the NUM >>> LOCK key is >>> emulated by FN with F4. I can accidentally hit this combination when >>> pressing CONTROL F4, for example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. >>> I use that as an >>> example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. >>> >>> I hope this background helps you find an answer. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: >>> >>>>Greetings! >>> >>>>For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >>>>it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >>>>the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >>>>is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >>>>Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >>>>why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >>>>BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! >>> >>>>Pax, >>>>Sydney >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From liz.bottner at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 02:23:16 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:23:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha Message-ID: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> Hi, I thought this might interest some. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 Hi all. I read an article about a new type of captcha that could leave us in the dark all over again, so I thought it would be of interest. It's based on 3D image-identification. See http://news.cnet.com:80/8301-17938_105-10204300-1.html?tag=nl.e703 I tried to contact YUNiTi, the captcha's designers, but of course the contact form had the same style of captcha. So I contacted the article's author, who was kind enough to put me in touch with the co-founder of the company. The poor guy was stimied by the idea of giving us a viable alternative, but he says if anyone has one, he'd be happy to hear it. So...if anybody does, email me off list and I'll give you the co-founder's email address. he said I could give it out as long as I didn't post it anywhere. I hope, by getting this article out there, someone might have a flash of brilliance that might help us all, since if this takes hold, it would render WebVisum obsolete. From liz.bottner at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 02:34:28 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:34:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] My apologies Message-ID: <49e152fe.c5c2f10a.2fd1.ffffd46b@mx.google.com> Hi all, It seems in the email I recently forwarded to the list there wasn't a contact email address as is supposed. I know no further information, so please feel free to disregard the message unless someone else can make heads or tails of it. My apologies again, and take care, Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 05:48:30 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:48:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha References: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0B9E11AAAE1B40BAAB20091101CF65EB@thedjdinvasion> I think one thing you should do is to see that Web Visum's people see this article too. They might then have a clue what to do with their product to make it work. From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 14:54:19 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 07:54:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha In-Reply-To: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> References: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090412145419.GA588@yumi.bluecherry.net> Liz, I've submitted a comment, complete with a suggestion for how to do it the way a blind person would need to. Greatly amused by the use of a toilet in a CAPTCHA. Joseph On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:23:16PM -0400, Liz Bottner wrote: >Hi, > > > >I thought this might interest some. > > > >Liz > > > >email: > >liz.bottner at gmail.com > >Visit my livejournal: > >http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com > > >Follow me on Twitter: > >http://twitter.com/lizbot > >Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March >for Independence: > > >am&fr_id=1050> >http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea >m&fr_id=1050 > > > > >Hi all. I read an article about a new type of captcha that could leave >us in > >the dark all over again, so I thought it would be of interest. It's >based on > >3D image-identification. See >http://news.cnet.com:80/8301-17938_105-10204300-1.html?tag=nl.e703 > >I tried to contact YUNiTi, the captcha's designers, but of course the >contact form had the same style of captcha. So I contacted the article's >author, who was kind enough to put me in touch with the co-founder of >the >company. The poor guy was stimied by the idea of giving us a viable >alternative, but he says if anyone has one, he'd be happy to hear it. >So...if anybody does, email me off list and I'll give you the >co-founder's >email address. he said I could give it out as long as I didn't post it >anywhere. > >I hope, by getting this article out there, someone might have a flash of >brilliance that might help us all, since if this takes hold, it would >render > >WebVisum obsolete. > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 12 15:35:09 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:35:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter Message-ID: Hi All, Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so thankful she's alive being the age she is! Ashley From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sun Apr 12 16:16:15 2009 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:16:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter References: Message-ID: <889117E9D0B14CFB9B719A1531C93441@Hope> I couldn't agree more, Ashley. I also am going to spend the day with my family. I too am thankful my grandmother is still alive. Happy Easter!!! Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:35 AM Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter > Hi All, > > Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day > with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so thankful > she's alive being the age she is! > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu From corbbo at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 16:49:19 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:49:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] switching from pc to mac In-Reply-To: <49DD6928.7030702@aol.com> References: <423e6e460904071504s5d173372oc39e64a8a94c2263@mail.gmail.com> <49DD26DB.8030502@gmail.com> <49DD6928.7030702@aol.com> Message-ID: Since it ha been requeted, I am forwarding my reply to Domonique here. I use a Mac and primarily use the zoom feature instead of VoiceOver. Do you still see enough to see a computer screen when enlarged? If so, and if that's your preferred method for using a machine, then you're good to go with a Mac. If you depend on the voice software, I would recommend a Windows box...unless you're up to learn something new! As I said on the NABS list, you're all set to use the voice commands if you're using software written by Apple (i.e. Preview for PDs, Safari for Internet--which is much better than it used to be and pretty similar to Firefox, Pages instead of Word--which gives you much more freedom and still the ability to export to Word, iChat for Google, AIM, etc...which I think is far better anyway...the list goes on.) If you're up for learning a new way to do your work, then a Mac is great...more stable, looks sleeker, and much faster and longer- lasting. If you'd rather just go with what you know, then stick with a Windows box. As for using the Windows Virtual Machine, I'd suggest getting it if you plan to use Kurzweil. Kurzweil 1000 is not yet Mac compatible, though 3000 is, but that really doesn't do what we blind folks need (that software is intended for folks with learning disabilities). You can find Mac drivers for your scanners, but I prefer doing that on the PC side. I use Parallels to emulate a PC, though I'd suggest using a program called Fusion. Read Walt Mossberg's review from The Wall Street Journal at:http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20070802/fusion-is-latest-way-for-macs-to-operate-windows-pc-software/ Best of luck, and give me a shout when I can help Corbb On Apr 8, 2009, at 11:19 PM, Haben Girma wrote: I agree. Robert Spangler wrote: > I actually wouldn't mind seeing responses to this message posted on- > list. > > > Domonique Lawless wrote: >> Dear Nabsters, >> >> I am currently in the market for a new computer and am seriously >> considering getting a macbook. I am currently renting one for a week >> to see what the accessability is like and whether or not I really >> want one. I am wondering what kind of problems you guys have run >> into >> as far as accessability, navigation, and software compatibility. I am >> also curious as to whether or not I really need windows virtual >> machine running JAWS or Window Eyes. I can easily get access to a >> desktop with Kurzweil and a scanner and I'm really not sure what else >> I need windows virtual machine for. If you guys can please e-mail me >> off list to share your thoughts on this matter I'd really appreciate >> it. >> >> Thanks! >> Domonique Lawless >> dlawless86 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 17:26:51 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 12:26:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter References: Message-ID: <4DF7050B533A47148613A5FAF621D454@thedjdinvasion> I'm just spending easter with family. Happy easter to you too! From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Apr 12 18:32:48 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:32:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1160192199.593151239561168910.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello ashely, thanks for the sweet note that you posted here to the nabs list. as for me spending easter today it will be with friends. i'm going to some friends house for some fun and food for easter. unfortunately, i won't be with my family since mine lives in michigan and i live in colorado. but, i did somewhat spend a holiday with mom this past week. she came out to visit with me for her spring break. so, thanks again and i too hope that you also have a good easter too! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Ashley Bramlett To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:35:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter Hi All, Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so thankful she's alive being the age she is! Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Apr 12 18:35:26 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:35:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter In-Reply-To: <4DF7050B533A47148613A5FAF621D454@thedjdinvasion> Message-ID: <2110455284.593441239561326752.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello david, that sounds cool! i didn't know that... well, take care and i will talk to you soon my dear! hugs always, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:26:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] happy Easter I'm just spending easter with family. Happy easter to you too! _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sun Apr 12 19:23:35 2009 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:23:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter In-Reply-To: <1160192199.593151239561168910.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1160192199.593151239561168910.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Ame how do you like Colorado compared to Michigan? Why did you move to Colorado? Have a happy Easter. Did you know people before you moved to Colorado or did you have to meet new people when you got there? I have never moved to another state. I was wondering what that experience was like. Albert > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:32:48 +0000 > From: amylsabo at comcast.net > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] happy Easter > > hello ashely, > > thanks for the sweet note that you posted here to the nabs list. as for me spending easter today it will be with friends. i'm going to some friends house for some fun and food for easter. unfortunately, i won't be with my family since mine lives in michigan and i live in colorado. > > but, i did somewhat spend a holiday with mom this past week. she came out to visit with me for her spring break. so, thanks again and i too hope that you also have a good easter too! > > > > hugs, > from amy > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ashley Bramlett > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:35:09 +0000 (UTC) > > Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter > > > > Hi All, > > > > Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so thankful she's alive being the age she is! > > > > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sun Apr 12 19:54:36 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:54:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T How You Do It Message-ID: <20090412195436.17502.11094@web3.serotek.com> Joe, While your article is meant to be humorous, it brings home a good point that we often need reminding of. How many of us (myself included) get ourselves caught up in school work, civic activities, NFB, work, etc? How often do we take time for ourselves to do those things that make us feel like whole persons? In recent months, this point was brought sharply home to me; and trust me, it sucked beyond measure. We know that constant stress reduces the brain's ability to handle new information or to think critically and creatively. we also know that stress lowers the body's ability to fight off illness and keep energy levels at peak performance. While it's not advisable to completely forget our responsibilities, it's definitely worth while to remind ourselves to carve out a small piece of time for ourselves as often as needed and as possible. Consider Joe's contribution as an invitation to do the things you love once in a while in order to keep your sanity while you embark on all of you're life's daily journeys. Cheers and thanks. Original message: > Listen up folks, > Those of you graduating in May and joining the rest of us in the working > world, this is how you make life less stressful. And, if you've got more > school beyond this May, reading this amusing little article is how you > postpone studying for those finals.--Joe Orozco > Take a Day Off -- On the Clock > By Steven Yang > I use all my vacation days. I read in a self-help book last year that when > you have a superior mind, you have to give it time to breathe. So I let mine > breathe at comic book stores and "World of Warcraft" conventions. The > problem is that when you're as bright as I am, you need more than the two > weeks of vacation a year I get at this company. Six to eight would be about > right. > I usually blow through my vacation time by April or May, which means I need > to find other ways to take time off. I'll be honest; I've gotten pretty good > at it. I use a few different tactics, but here is the tried-and-true method > that will always get me a day away from the office. > I start out by sending an e-mail to everyone the night before that says I'll > be in late the next day because I have a contractor coming over to give me > an estimate on my floors (or something similar). I don't even own my > apartment, but my boss isn't smart enough to catch on. So I get to sleep in > and spend the morning eating cereal and watching cartoons. > When I finally get into the office around 11, I surf the web for a while > after putting up a sign on my door that says, "Extremely Busy, E-Mail Only > Please." I counter that by setting my e-mail office assistant with a message > that states I will be in and out of the office a lot today and will return > your e-mail when I can. It's a thing of beauty. I also decline all meetings > for the day and say that I have a conflicting "high-pri" meeting. > Then I swing by my boss' office around noon and let him know that I have a > doctor's appointment over lunch and that the office always runs slow. By > this time, he's totally forgotten that I came in late because he's too busy > checking his fantasy football team and kissing up to his manager. This buys > me about three hours. Mind you, I still haven't done any work. > My three-hour lunch starts at my favorite bar eating potato skins and > knocking back a few vodka shots. The nice thing about vodka is that no one > can smell it on your breath. Major score. I follow that up with a trip to > the comic book store and then swing by the office for the rest of the day. I > usually do this on Fridays because everyone is out by 4 (they have zero work > ethic). So that puts me back in the office a little after three with an hour > to go. I watch a few more viral clips on the Internet and then make the > rounds to chat people up until it's time to go. This is "hideout" time > because it's when my boss usually comes looking for me to do his work. While > I don't have a ton of friends at work, I can usually find someone to talk to > about movies or superheroes before I head out the back stairs for the day. > All without ever even opening my e-mail. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 12 20:00:03 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 13:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] A good discovery regarding the use of CCTVs Message-ID: <70639.892.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, I tried the following idea and it worked really well for me, so I decided to pass it on to everyone else: Use a pair of hemostats (basically locking tweezers) to clamp pages of a textbook together. This allows me to be able to leave a book open, underneath a CCTV without the book trying to close. This is particularly useful when dealing with a pesky assignment that requires alot of referencing/quoting from books, rather than simple reading assignments. Hope some will find this useful Jim "Ability is of little account without opportunity."  | -Napoleon Bonaparte From cowboy0210 at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 20:00:05 2009 From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com (Kevin Ledford) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:00:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Easter !!! Message-ID: <5487baf30904121300g5d3b645cle3384b883c94cb62@mail.gmail.com> > > Greetings everyone on this beautiful Easter Sunday !!! I don't post very > often but would like to wish everyone a safe, joyous and Happy Easter > regardless your religious beliefs !!! Best Regards, Kevin From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 20:26:02 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:26:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Easter !!! In-Reply-To: <5487baf30904121300g5d3b645cle3384b883c94cb62@mail.gmail.com> References: <5487baf30904121300g5d3b645cle3384b883c94cb62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904121326j27de30b2ucfb0740abdead197@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Kevin. I celebrated both Easter and a bit of Passover this year with a Jewish friend, so I know what you mean by regardless of religious beliefs. Beth On 4/12/09, Kevin Ledford wrote: >> >> Greetings everyone on this beautiful Easter Sunday !!! I don't post very >> often but would like to wish everyone a safe, joyous and Happy Easter >> regardless your religious beliefs !!! > > > Best Regards, > > Kevin > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From troubleclark at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 20:28:02 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:28:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] electronic books In-Reply-To: <20090410034907.KKOI882.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20090410034907.KKOI882.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: bookshare.org, rfbd.org are some resources to go to On 4/9/09, hannah wrote: > I get a lot of my books from audible.com You have to buy them, > but they're usually worth it at the end because it's read by > people. > Hannah > >> ----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Jason Mandarino" >To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > >Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 11:08:39 -0400 >>Subject: [nabs-l] electronic books > > >>I am curious where blind people typically obtain electronic files > of their >>books? I know that Book share exists, but is there any reliable > web >>resources that are both accessible and for purchase? > >>I am asking for I am interacting with several Christian > publishers, and one >>specifically is interested in understanding what a competitive > E-file would >>look like. Although they are a small publisher, I am very > excited that they >>are more than willing to assist me and create some business > changes. >>However, I need some help in regards to pointing them in the > right >>direction, and probably will need to test them out myself. > >>Sincerely, > >>Mandarino > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli > cious%40suddenlink.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Sun Apr 12 21:08:38 2009 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:08:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter Message-ID: <20090412210757.UTIM25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Hi All, Happy Easter. I've already spent part of the day with my friend and I'm going to spend the rest of it with family. Cheers, Hannah >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:35:09 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter >Hi All, >Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so thankful she's alive being the age she is! >Ashley >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sun Apr 12 21:15:31 2009 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:15:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Happy Easter !!! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904121326j27de30b2ucfb0740abdead197@mail.gmail.com> References: <5487baf30904121300g5d3b645cle3384b883c94cb62@mail.gmail.com> <4383d01d0904121326j27de30b2ucfb0740abdead197@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: How is passover celebrated? Do you have different passover food? How long does passover last? > Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 16:26:02 -0400 > From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Happy Easter !!! > > Thanks, Kevin. I celebrated both Easter and a bit of Passover this > year with a Jewish friend, so I know what you mean by regardless of > religious beliefs. > Beth > > On 4/12/09, Kevin Ledford wrote: > >> > >> Greetings everyone on this beautiful Easter Sunday !!! I don't post very > >> often but would like to wish everyone a safe, joyous and Happy Easter > >> regardless your religious beliefs !!! > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile1_042009 From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Apr 12 21:46:01 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 17:46:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Description of Raised-line Cheques Message-ID: <20090412174601.9xy2qhzmdcgksw0w@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi all, Does anyone know what all the lines on cheques are for? I have raised-line cheques but the raised lines are only so good if you remember what each one means ... Thank you vor your help, Sarah From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Sun Apr 12 22:30:27 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:30:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Description of Raised-line Cheques In-Reply-To: <20090412174601.9xy2qhzmdcgksw0w@webmail.utoronto.ca> References: <20090412174601.9xy2qhzmdcgksw0w@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <664924CB9838401B9197B85F7E2C954B@Jessica> Sarah, Date, Paid to the Order of , amount in dollars, amount of the dollar field written in words, memo line, and of course the signature line. I believe that is what you are after. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Description of Raised-line Cheques > Hi all, > Does anyone know what all the lines on cheques are for? I have > raised-line cheques but the raised lines are only so good if you remember > what each one means ... > Thank you vor your help, > Sarah > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sun Apr 12 23:57:32 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 19:57:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Description of Raised-line Cheques In-Reply-To: <664924CB9838401B9197B85F7E2C954B@Jessica> References: <20090412174601.9xy2qhzmdcgksw0w@webmail.utoronto.ca> <664924CB9838401B9197B85F7E2C954B@Jessica> Message-ID: <20090412195732.trm3g295oggkko88@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi! Thank you. It's in that order? The lines are sort of all over the place. Thank you again, Sarah Quoting Jess : > Sarah, > Date, Paid to the Order of , amount in dollars, amount of the dollar field > written in words, memo line, and of course the signature line. I believe > that is what you are after. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 5:46 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Description of Raised-line Cheques > > >> Hi all, >> Does anyone know what all the lines on cheques are for? I have >> raised-line cheques but the raised lines are only so good if you remember >> what each one means ... >> Thank you vor your help, >> Sarah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > From passionflower505 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 13 17:52:40 2009 From: passionflower505 at yahoo.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:52:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] spss Message-ID: <953604.69137.qm@web65601.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I have to start taking research classes for psychology, and they use SPSS, some statistics software or something. I've seen threads on the list about it not being accessible, but i was curious if anything had changed with that, or if there was an alternative software that you used. Thanks Cindy From fowlers at syix.com Mon Apr 13 03:20:10 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:20:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter In-Reply-To: <20090412210757.UTIM25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> References: <20090412210757.UTIM25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Message-ID: <4BDEAE16CC80414FB82EBCB9FC6A3318@angelab> Happy Easter to one and all. I hope your holiday was as pleasant as mine, visiting family and watching my son hunt Easter eggs. Since I had Jefferson I've rediscovered the magic which had been lost for a good few years. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of hannah Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 2:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] happy Easter Hi All, Happy Easter. I've already spent part of the day with my friend and I'm going to spend the rest of it with family. Cheers, Hannah >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 11:35:09 -0400 >Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter >Hi All, >Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so thankful she's alive being the age she is! >Ashley >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Apr 13 22:30:05 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:30:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter References: <889117E9D0B14CFB9B719A1531C93441@Hope> Message-ID: <009b01c9bc87$65441fa0$0301a8c0@Serene> I hope you akll had a great Easter! I also spent it with my family and am thankful my remaining grandmother is still alive. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] happy Easter >I couldn't agree more, Ashley. I also am going to spend the day with my >family. I too am thankful my grandmother is still alive. > Happy Easter!!! > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:35 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] happy Easter > > >> Hi All, >> >> Happy Easter to those who celebrate it. I hope you have a delightful day >> with friends or family. I'm going to see my grandmother. I'm so >> thankful she's alive being the age she is! >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Apr 13 11:39:29 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 04:39:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha In-Reply-To: <20090412145419.GA588@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> <20090412145419.GA588@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <20090413113929.GB7896@yumi.bluecherry.net> And I have received a reply. It seems the makers are aware of the problem and are considering what will work, but they want something secure. I suggested expecting the blind person to associate common sounds (the toilet flush, a duck's quack, etc) with the word that goes with it. I did point out that CAPTCHAs are annoying and will prove ineffective in the long run--I even described a trivial means to defeat any and every CAPTCHA invented now or in the future. We shall see what comes of it. Joseph On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 07:54:19AM -0700, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Liz, > > I've submitted a comment, complete with a suggestion for how to do it > the way a blind person would need to. > > Greatly amused by the use of a toilet in a CAPTCHA. > > Joseph > > On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:23:16PM -0400, Liz Bottner wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I thought this might interest some. >> >> >> >> Liz >> >> >> >> email: >> >> liz.bottner at gmail.com >> >> Visit my livejournal: >> >> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com >> >> >> Follow me on Twitter: >> >> http://twitter.com/lizbot >> >> Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March >> for Independence: >> >> >> > am&fr_id=1050> >> http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea >> m&fr_id=1050 >> >> >> >> >> Hi all. I read an article about a new type of captcha that could leave >> us in >> >> the dark all over again, so I thought it would be of interest. It's >> based on >> >> 3D image-identification. See >> http://news.cnet.com:80/8301-17938_105-10204300-1.html?tag=nl.e703 >> >> I tried to contact YUNiTi, the captcha's designers, but of course the >> contact form had the same style of captcha. So I contacted the article's >> author, who was kind enough to put me in touch with the co-founder of >> the >> company. The poor guy was stimied by the idea of giving us a viable >> alternative, but he says if anyone has one, he'd be happy to hear it. >> So...if anybody does, email me off list and I'll give you the >> co-founder's >> email address. he said I could give it out as long as I didn't post it >> anywhere. >> >> I hope, by getting this article out there, someone might have a flash of >> brilliance that might help us all, since if this takes hold, it would >> render >> >> WebVisum obsolete. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From freespirit328 at gmail.com Mon Apr 13 03:31:08 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 23:31:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes References: <020BE6326579455485678B361773C684@Ashley><978F0AE4EA8A401FB604568B7693C4D6@Gateway><623F33A7255F42A0AAF4270C73CD1601@Ashley><02582627A3A64780932A881A3E7F0D2B@Gateway> Message-ID: <44327060D93040AA99B0DCB15D0CAA0A@Gateway> I just wanted to say that I did finally figure out my Ipod. It's not easy! But now all my songs are on it (788), and it sounds really good. I plugged it into my stereo system and Vuala! Jen Shop my AVON online store http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com Get healthy! http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com Contact me: Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-762-3258 (home) 401-644-5607 (cell) freespirit328 at gmail.com SKYPE: J.Aberdeen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > Hey Jen, > > You should be able to access your Nanno from "my computer," and look at > your > mp3 under their appropriate folder. I'll ask some friends, but I was told > that it has been mapped with the computer, and should display under the > "my > computer," folder. > > Mandarino > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:46 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > Ashley, > > I have experienced what you are talking about. For example, the other day > I > tried purchasing the movie "Twilight" from Itunes. I never purchased it, > let > > alone downloaded it. I couldn't figure it out and didn't have the > patience. > Now there's an issue with my Mano 4th Gen too. A message comes up saying > that I have no more room for more music, but there's only eleven MP3's on > it. It's got 16 GB, so I don't buy it. I think I need to remove everyone > on > it and start all over again, but of course, I can't figure that out for > the > life of me. > > Anyway, sorry for the rant...I'm just so frustrated. > > Jen > > Shop my AVON online store > http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com > > Get healthy! > http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com > > Contact me: > > Jennifer Aberdeen > PO Box 1184 > Woonsocket, RI 02895 > 401-762-3258 (home) > 401-644-5607 (cell) > freespirit328 at gmail.com > SKYPE: J.Aberdeen > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes > > >> JJen, >> I have jfw 10 and find access problems. I cannot access the buy song >> individually with the keyboard. Some of it is usable but not easy. It >> takes patience to tab through the buttons. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 10:55 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >> >> >>> Ashley, >>> >>> The Ipod Nano 4th Generation is accessible. It has spoken menus. >>> >>> Itunes is accessible, that is, the latest fversion. I've heard that it's >>> only accessible with JFW 9 and above, but I have JFW 7.1, and it works >>> fine for me. It's not what you might want to call "easy," but it's >>> doable > >>> as far as I can tell. >>> >>> Jen >>> >>> Shop my AVON online store >>> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com >>> >>> Get healthy! >>> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com >>> >>> Contact me: >>> >>> Jennifer Aberdeen >>> PO Box 1184 >>> Woonsocket, RI 02895 >>> 401-762-3258 (home) >>> 401-644-5607 (cell) >>> freespirit328 at gmail.com >>> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:01 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ipod and itunes >>> >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> We all like music of some kind. What accessible Ipods are ut there? I >>>> know the Ipod shuffle is usable because it has tactile buttons and no >>>> visual display. Is itunes accessible? If there are problems what are >>>> they? >>>> I'm going to use itunes to get music and would access it independently >>>> if i can. Thanks. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmai > l.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3946 (20090318) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 13 04:04:45 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Who are the NABS state advisors for MT, ID, WY, ND, SD? Message-ID: <829364.25217.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, I was unable to access the NABS website, does anyone know who the two advisors are that are assigned to MT, ND, SD, ID, WY? Please email me off-list with name and contact info. Thanks Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From ccook01 at knology.net Tue Apr 14 03:09:47 2009 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:09:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <376023794B1B4FF281942D2CA95B1CD8@TheCooksPC> Corey Cook From cassonw at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 04:02:30 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:02:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble In-Reply-To: <000a01c9ba3d$8eda1c80$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <922c02e40904101508o19e8d79bic223f534c711def3@mail.gmail.com> <000a01c9ba3d$8eda1c80$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904132102g570ff52cp6e02b4e8521f2997@mail.gmail.com> IN my experience, the Fn key has always been the second key to the left On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Rania wrote: > Glad to see you were able to fix it. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" < > freedmas at stolaf.edu> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble > > > Yes. i did know of the laptop keys being able to switch, but i >> couldn't figure out how I had actually switched them. I tried the fn >> key and such and then finally figured out that there is actually a >> numlock key to the left of my insert key. :) So, problem solved! >> >> Sydney >> >> On 4/10/09, Rania wrote: >> >>> That's interesting. I have a dell labtop and have never herd of an FN key >>> before. >>> Rania, >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Steve Jacobson" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:40 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble >>> >>> >>> Sydney, >>>> >>>> Most laptops have the ability to have the keys you mentioned used as a >>>> sort of numeric pad. You almost certainly accidentally turned this >>>> feature on by accident. >>>> How this feature is activated varies some from computer to computer. It >>>> is even different between models from the same company. For example, >>>> different models of >>>> Dell computers are different. However, here is an overview of how it >>>> generally works. >>>> >>>> Usually a laptop has an "FN" key which is a sort of shift key that makes >>>> your keyboard behave differently when the key is held down. It acts as >>>> sort of another shift >>>> key. Normally, it provides access to keys that may not be on your >>>> physical keyboard and it also controls laptop functions as well. For >>>> example, on my Dell laptop, >>>> pressing the LEFT and RIGHT ARROWS with the FN key down makes them act >>>> as >>>> PGUP and PGDN. The UP and DOWN ARROW keys with the FN key held >>>> down make my screen brighter or darker. When I hold down my FN key, the >>>> keys you mention become a numeric keypad, but normally they return to >>>> normal when I >>>> let it up. >>>> >>>> Generally, the FN key pressed with function keys controls a number of >>>> laptop functions and particular keys. Unless you can see your screen or >>>> have someone >>>> handy to look at it, I wouldn't experiment with these because there is >>>> usually one that turns off the sound. However, one of these function >>>> keys, together with the >>>> FN key, likely acts as a NUM LOCK key. In the case of a laptop, this >>>> NUM >>>> LOCK key turns on the use of the keys you mention as a numeric pad even >>>> when the >>>> FN key is not pressed. >>>> >>>> If you have your manual or know the exact model number of your computer, >>>> you need to find out which key combination creates the NUM LOCK key. >>>> There may be >>>> a manual on your computer. Finding that combination and pressing it >>>> again >>>> >>>> should correct it. If you remember when it started, you might be able >>>> to >>>> make an >>>> educated guess as to what you pressed. Still, your best bet is to know >>>> for certain if you can find the documentation. On my computer, the NUM >>>> LOCK key is >>>> emulated by FN with F4. I can accidentally hit this combination when >>>> pressing CONTROL F4, for example sinct CNTRL is right next to my FN key. >>>> I use that as an >>>> example, though, don't assume it is F4 on your computer. >>>> >>>> I hope this background helps you find an answer. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Steve Jacobson >>>> >>>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:10:24 -0500, Sydney Walker Freedman wrote: >>>> >>>> Greetings! >>>>> >>>> >>>> For some reason, my laptop keyboard is acting strange. I do not have >>>>> it set to laptop mode and have a num pad connected to it. However, >>>>> the letters m, j, i, u, etc. are registering as numbers even when JAWS >>>>> is off. I can't type anything properly because of this problem. >>>>> Nothing seems to be awry in any keyboard settings, so I have no idea >>>>> why this is happening or how I can fix it. (At least I have a >>>>> BrailleNote. :) ) Any thoughts? Thanks! >>>>> >>>> >>>> Pax, >>>>> Sydney >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 07:02:37 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:02:37 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Computer keyboard trouble In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904132102g570ff52cp6e02b4e8521f2997@mail.gmail.com> References: <000b01c9ba14$c182d920$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <922c02e40904101508o19e8d79bic223f534c711def3@mail.gmail.com> <000a01c9ba3d$8eda1c80$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <26d2dfeb0904132102g570ff52cp6e02b4e8521f2997@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090414070237.GD22983@yumi.bluecherry.net> I've seen it the first as well. Many keyboards now make it the second because Control is used by Windows keyboardists so much. Joseph On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 09:02:30PM -0700, Bill wrote: >IN my experience, the Fn key has always been the second key to the left From jj at bestmidi.com Tue Apr 14 12:35:34 2009 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:35:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Who are the NABS state advisors for MT, ID, WY, ND, SD? References: <829364.25217.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2B862488D9094E0F923C41DA44EDD32B@jage> Hello. That is actually a cross-section of a few regions. ID is the eastern end of the Northwest region with Arielle Silverman. asilverman at nabslink.org Domonique Lawless heads up the mountain region including MT, ND, and SD. dlawless at nabslink.org WI falls in the midwest region which is mine. jmeddaugh at nabslink.org Did you have problems accessing the nabslink.org website? All of this and more is available on this site. If you received a specific error, please send it along so we can fix the problem. J.J. Meddaugh Secretary, National Association of Blind Students ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: "NABS mail list" Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:04 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Who are the NABS state advisors for MT, ID, WY, ND, SD? > Hello, > I was unable to access the NABS website, does anyone know who the two > advisors are that are assigned to MT, ND, SD, ID, WY? Please email me > off-list with name and contact info. > Thanks > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From habnkid at aol.com Tue Apr 14 16:50:57 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:50:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Library Research Survey Message-ID: <49E4BEF1.6060408@aol.com> Survey sent by Lisa O'Shaughnessy: We are three students currently enrolled in a masters program in Library Science at Pratt Institute in NYC. This semester, we are taking a class that focuses on the study of how people search for the different types of information they need (academic assignments, work info, personal info). For our final project, we are interested in discovering how visually impaired college students search for the information they need to satisfy their school assignments (papers, quizzes, etc.). We are posting to the California Association of Blind Students Facebook group in the hope to connect with some visually impaired college students. We need several volunteers to help us out by completing a short 15-question survey. The survey will take no more then half an hour to complete and will ask you questions about: how you search for information for school, what types of information sources your prefer (google vs. library), and what problems you may have encountered while searching. RAFFLE: As our way of saying thank you for participating in our project, we will be entering everyone who completes a survey into a raffle for a $20 gift certificate to either Amazon.com or the ITunes store. HOW TO RETURN THE QUESTIONNAIRE: Listed below please find the questionnaire we would like you to complete. Option one: After completing this survey, copy and paste the survey questions and your answers into a Facebook e-mail and send it to Lisa O’Shaughnessy, Julia Martin, and Polina Mitenko by April 20, 2009. Option two: Send the completed survey to LisaOShaughnessy at aol.com, JuliaWMartin at gmail.com, and pmitenko at pratt.edu by April 20, 2009 with the subject: HOW DO YOU SEARCH FOR INFORMATION TO SATISFY YOUR SCHOOL ASSIGNMENTS? Participation in this survey is completely voluntary. By filling out the survey you will be agreeing to participate within our project. All results and names of participants will be kept completely confidential and only viewed by the three of us conducting the survey. If at any time after completing the questionnaire you wish to withdraw your answers from our project please feel free to do so by sending one of us an e-mail via our Facebook accounts. Questionnaire: 1. Age: _________ Degree Pursued: choose one (_)Associates (_)Bachelors (_)Masters (_)Vocational (_)Certificate (_)Other:________________ Anticipated date of completion: _______ 2. How would you define your level of computer technology skills? __ Beginner (E-Mail and basic internet searching) __ Intermediate (Working knowledge of MS Office, in-depth Internet Searching, Facebook/Myspace user) __ Advanced (Working knowledge of MS Office, in-depth online searching, able to create HTML documents and publish them on the web) __ Professional (I work as an IT professional/computer programmer or other advanced technology position) 3. How often do you utilize the services provided by the Office of Disability Services at your school? (Please mark one of the following) __ Three or more times a semester __ Once or twice a semester __ Not as much as I'd like to __ Never __ I didn't know we had one __ I don't find them to be helpful 4. When searching for information for a school assignment do you find it: __ Easy (I can do it on my own) __ Manageable (I am able to do it on my own with a little extra effort) __ Difficult (I need help from another person or a lot of extra effort) __ Impossibly frustrating (It takes so much effort and so much time that it doesn't seem worth doing) 5. Where do you start searching when you are given a school assignment? (Please mark one following) __ Search Engine __ Wikipedia __ Online Database __ Library __ Library Catalog __ It depends on the subject 6. Typically, which resource provides you with the best information? __ Search Engine __ Wikipedia __ Online Database __ Library __ Library Catalog __ It depends on the subject 7. Do you do research in your school’s library building? __Yes __ No 8. How often do you ask a librarian/staff member for help in finding materials? __ Every time __ Only after I can’t find something __ Only for in-depth research question __ I don’t find librarian/staff helpful 9. Are there any services you would like your library to offer? 10. What search engine do you commonly use while searching the Internet for information? __ Google __ Yahoo __ Ask.com __ Other please list 11. Do you encounter any issues when interacting with the your school's library catalog? __ Yes __ No If yes, please mark one or more of the following: __ Not easy to navigate __ Does not interact well with my assistive technology device __ Not easy to locate the information I need __ Other please explain 12. Do you use any technological aids when doing research for school? __ Yes __ No 13. If yes, what do you use: (Please mark one or more of the following) __ Screen Magnifier Program __ Screen Reader Program __ Refreshable Braille Display __ Closed Circuit TV __ Other please list 14. Do you ever encounter any problems when your assistive technology interacts with another resource? If yes, please explain: 15. Is there anything you'd like to tell us that we haven't asked, or if you would like to expand on any of your answers, please do so below. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Apr 14 23:52:52 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:52:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Who are the NABS state advisors for MT, ID, WY, ND, SD? In-Reply-To: <2B862488D9094E0F923C41DA44EDD32B@jage> Message-ID: <15DB5C53378441CB8C8F2B0B9CBF3473@Rufus> NABSLink is down as a result of a DSL problem David Andrews reported earlier. The web site is hosted on the server that services NABS and a number of state affiliates. When it is back online you can go to the Contact link at the top of the page and find the list of board members with accompanying regional breakdowns. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of J.J. Meddaugh Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:36 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Who are the NABS state advisors for MT, ID, WY, ND, SD? Hello. That is actually a cross-section of a few regions. ID is the eastern end of the Northwest region with Arielle Silverman. asilverman at nabslink.org Domonique Lawless heads up the mountain region including MT, ND, and SD. dlawless at nabslink.org WI falls in the midwest region which is mine. jmeddaugh at nabslink.org Did you have problems accessing the nabslink.org website? All of this and more is available on this site. If you received a specific error, please send it along so we can fix the problem. J.J. Meddaugh Secretary, National Association of Blind Students ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: "NABS mail list" Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 12:04 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Who are the NABS state advisors for MT, ID, WY, ND, SD? > Hello, > I was unable to access the NABS website, does anyone know who the two > advisors are that are assigned to MT, ND, SD, ID, WY? Please email me > off-list with name and contact info. > Thanks > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes tmidi.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4000 (20090410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4000 (20090410) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From iwilcox2011 at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 03:13:27 2009 From: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com (Isaiah Wilcox) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:13:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Science advice Message-ID: Good day ladies and gentlemen. I, along with a colleague, need some feedback from individuals who have taken any science courses. For example, I would like to know what accommodations were made for you, what are some things to be aware of, or what couldn't you do? If you could, e-mail me off of the list, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -- Isaiah Wilcox 830 Westview Dr. SW Morehouse College Unit #140940 Atlanta Ga, 30314 Cell: (404) 291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed Apr 15 09:36:43 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:36:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Baltimore Sun Op-Ed Piece from Dr. Maurer on Kindle Message-ID: FYI. from the Baltimore Sun http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.blind14apr14,0,2676842.story Bias against blind book lovers By Marc Maurer April 14, 2009 I love to read, and I've been doing it ever since I was able. My wife is also an avid reader. But my wife and I are blind, and because I lead the Baltimore-based National Federation of the Blind, we have many blind friends. And although many of us read everything we can get our hands on, we can't get our hands on very much to read. There are services for us, of course. Government entities and nonprofit organizations convert books into Braille, audio, or digital form for our use. But only 5 percent of all books published undergo such a conversion. A few more are available as commercial audio books, but these are often abridged, and those that are unabridged are quite expensive. Nowadays, a solution to the problem of reading material is tantalizingly within our reach: the e-book. When Amazon released its new Kindle 2 e-book reader earlier this year, it announced that the device now includes text-to-speech software and can read e-books aloud. Those of us who are blind were filled with joy at this news. For the first time in history, it would now be possible, we hoped, for the blind to do something that everyone else takes for granted: purchase a brand new book and start reading it right away. Our hope quickly turned to despair, however - and then to anger. The Authors Guild doesn't want the Kindle 2 to be able to read books aloud. They say this new capability violates authors' copyrights. This argument has absolutely no basis in copyright law. Reading a print book aloud or having it read aloud to you in the privacy of your home is not a copyright violation; the only difference with the Kindle 2 is that a machine rather than a human being is doing the reading. In the face of this specious attack from the Authors Guild, Amazon initially took the legally and morally correct position that the text-to-speech feature of the Kindle 2 did not violate copyright law. But then the company backed down, saying it would allow authors and publishers to decide which books they would permit to be read aloud by the device. Dismayed, we contacted the Authors Guild. It claimed it did not oppose having e-books read aloud to the blind, as long as there was a national registry of blind people who would then be allowed to unlock the text-to-speech feature. This is wrong. The Authors Guild has no right to discriminate against disabled readers by segregating us into a separate and unequal class. If our sighted friends don't have to "sign up" to be permitted to read, then blind people shouldn't either. And once we buy a book, how we read it is nobody's business but ours. When we told the Authors Guild this, they added insult to injury by telling us that, if we wouldn't sign up for a registry, we would just have to pay extra in order to use text-to-speech. Needless to say, this is outrageous and reprehensible behavior from an organization of people who claim to support equal access to literature by all Americans. Instead of facilitating the free flow of information, the Authors Guild is making itself the arbiter of who is worthy of access to the printed word. The Authors Guild isn't just discriminating against blind people. People with other disabilities - especially brain injuries and conditions like dyslexia - would also benefit from the ability to have books read aloud to them electronically. Groups representing many of these people are joining us to protest the position of the Authors Guild and Amazon's craven response to it. At present, very few of us buy books in any form. If we could have e-books read aloud to us, however, we would happily pay for them. We are an untapped market consisting of some 15 million people to which authors and publishers have never before had direct access. For this reason, the position of the Authors Guild is not only morally repugnant but also bad business. Prohibiting the blind and others from reading commercially available e-books just means that authors and publishers won't get our money. The guild's position hurts both authors and people with print disabilities. In an age when how we get information is constantly and rapidly changing, it's important that people with disabilities have access to it in the same way that it is important for us to have access to physical structures, goods and services. Amazon took an important step in the right direction by including a read-aloud feature on the Kindle 2, but the Authors Guild is now trying to set us back. We are not going to allow them to stand in the doorway of the virtual bookstore to keep us out. Marc Maurer is president of the National Federation of the Blind. His e-mail is officeofthepresident at nfb.org. From enews at codefactory.info Wed Apr 15 09:26:46 2009 From: enews at codefactory.info (Code Factory_eNews) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:26:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] As shown at CSUN, you can now configure Mobile Speak function key! Message-ID: Logo Code Factory Caroline Ragot - Marketing Director marketing at codefactory.es Mobile Speak V3.82 Release of Mobile Speak V3.82 As shown at CSUN, you can now configure the Mobile Speak function key, a feature eagerly anticipated by thousands of users Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, Tuesday 14, 2009 Code Factory is happy to announce the release of Mobile Speak V3.82. This free update includes: * A configurable Mobile Speak function key feature which allows you to choose which key you want to use to perform Mobile Speak's commands such as increase or decrease volume and speed, read the date and time, read the current screen, etc. * Support for new devices such as the Nokia E75 and Nokia 5630. * Support for calendar on Nokia E66, Nokia E71 and Nokia E63. * Improved Web browser support: combo box list is now spoken when it is displayed. * Added user-selectable speech delay feature in the Advanced tab of the Mobile Speak's control panel. This can be useful inside some applications where Mobile Speak reacts faster than the screen is updated. The additional delay will ensure that the correct item is spoken. For a comprehensive list of changes from version 3.80 to version 3.82, go to http://codefactory.es/descargas/family_1/product_1/whats_new_symbian.html New users are invited to download a free 30-day trial version of Mobile Speak and discover how Mobile Speak for Symbian Phones can convert an otherwise inaccessible mainstream device into an essential communications tool. Users of previous versions of Mobile Speak (V3.0, V3.12, V3.25, V3.32, V3.40, V3.60, V3.80) are welcome to install the V3.82 update free-of-charge and enjoy the latest product enhancements. To obtain the download, follow the wizard at http://www.codefactory.es/en/downloads.asp?id=40. Mobile Speak for Symbian Phones V3.82 supports Symbian S60 3rd edition mobile phones: * Nokia 3250, Nokia 5320, Nokia 5500 Sport, Nokia 5630, Nokia 5700 Xpress Music, Nokia 6110 Navigator, Nokia 6120 Classic, Nokia 6121 Classic, Nokia 6124, Nokia 6210, Nokia 6220, Nokia 6290, Nokia 6650, Nokia E50, Nokia E51, Nokia E60, Nokia E61, Nokia E61i, Nokia E62, Nokia E63, Nokia E65, Nokia E66, Nokia E70, Nokia E71, Nokia E90 Communicator, Nokia N71, Nokia N73, Nokia N75, Nokia N76, Nokia N77, Nokia N78, Nokia N79, Nokia N80, Nokia N81, Nokia N82, Nokia N85, Nokia N91, Nokia N92, Nokia N93, Nokia N93i, Nokia N95, Nokia N95 8GB and Nokia N96. * Samsung i450, Samsung i550, Samsung i7110, Samsung i8510 INNOV8, Samsung G810 and Samsung L870. Note that Mobile Magnifier is not yet supported by the Nokia E75, Nokia N79, Nokia N85, nor any of the Samsung models. To read more about Mobile Speak for Symbian Phones, visit http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=24. To learn more about the other screen readers developed by Code Factory, visit http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=16. To buy Code Factory's software, contact your closest distributor. A list is available at: http://www.codefactory.es/en/purchase.asp?id=54. About Code Factory http://www.codefactory.es Code Factory is the leading provider of screen readers, screen magnifiers, and Braille interfaces for the widest range of mainstream mobile devices. Our mission is to break down barriers to the accessibility of mobile technology for the blind and visually impaired. Making accessibility means not just simple opportunity but also flexibility and affordability! Our accessible solutions are used in more than 50 countries and 30 languages. Among Code Factory's customers are well known organizations for the blind such as ONCE, and carriers such as AT&T, Bouygues Telecom, SFR, and Vodafone. We've also built strong partnerships with mainstream companies like HP, Microsoft, and Nokia as well as leading AT companies like Baum, HumanWare, Optelec and Sendero. For more information, feel free to contact Code Factory S.L.: Code Factory, S.L., Rambla d'Egara 148 2-2, 08221 Terrassa (Barcelona) info at codefactory.es, www.codefactory.es Code Factory, S.L. - 2009 Update your subscriptions, modify your password or e-mail address, or stop subscriptions at any time on your "Subscriber Preferences Page" at http://www.codefactory.es/en/services.asp. You will need to use your e-mail address to log in. You also can send an email to marketing at codefactory.es for any request related to your subscription. . From wolvessarah at hotmail.com Wed Apr 15 19:41:17 2009 From: wolvessarah at hotmail.com (sarah baebler) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:41:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Regional Student Seminar with rock climbing and goalball Message-ID: Hello one and all, Please see the attachment for the WI Association of Blind Students Spring Seminar and annual rock climbing event. This year we are making it regional and inviting surrounding states. We'd love for you to come. Any questions contact me off list. Thank you, Sarah Baebler WABS Vice President wolvessarah at hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CLIMB TO SUCCESS seminar and rock climbing.doc Type: application/msword Size: 38400 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 15 18:47:11 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state Message-ID: <198813.38060.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other student division leaders for advice. Background: The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of approx 50,000 The largest university has less than 10 blind students The MABS has approx 5 members The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, treasurer) and 4 board members   The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally doubt the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok to leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I disagree on both counts. In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know what I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president to being a dictator. I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have to say. Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Apr 15 18:17:32 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:17:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind to Present Second Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind to Present Second Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium Kareem Dale, President Obama's Special Assistant for Disability Policy, to Address Gathering and Field Questions Baltimore, Maryland (April 15, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) will present the second Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium on April 17, 2009, at the NFB Jernigan Institute in Baltimore. The symposium, entitled "New Perspectives on Disability Law: Advancing the Right to Live in the World" and named for NFB founder and pioneering legal scholar Dr. Jacobus tenBroek (1911-1968), will gather public officials, legal scholars, and disability rights advocates for a full-day seminar on the state of disability law in the United States and the world and will discuss how disability rights may be advanced in the future. Kareem Dale, special assistant for disability policy to United States President Barack Obama, will make a presentation to the gathering. Mr. Dale will speak on the Obama administration's policies on disability issues for approximately thirty minutes followed by a forty-five minute question and answer session. "Our first Jacobus tenBroek symposium was a stunning success, and we are looking forward to once again hosting leading players and thinkers in the disability community," said Dr. Marc Maurer, an attorney and President of the National Federation of the Blind. "Disability law is rapidly changing at the national and international level, and this forum will provide an opportunity for everyone to assess developments and plan strategies in this dynamic and critically important field." Other presenters at the 2009 symposium include Professor Gerard Quinn, National University of Ireland, Galway; Assistant Attorney General Maura Healey, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; Professor Samuel Bagenstos, UCLA School of Law; and Professor Peter Blanck, Burton Blatt Institute at Syracuse University. Dr. Jacobus tenBroek was a constitutional law scholar, a blind professor at Berkeley, and an author of treatises on the Fourteenth Amendment and social welfare. Dr. tenBroek created the concept that civil rights should apply to disabled Americans, and he published extensively on the application of the law to those with disabilities. His efforts to advance civil rights for the blind and others with disabilities included drafting the Model White Cane Law, which has had a profound influence on the development of civil rights laws for the disabled throughout the United States, and publishing authoritative articles like "The Right to Live in the World: The Disabled in the Law of Torts." For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please visit www.nfb.org. ### From brownbears at mchsi.com Wed Apr 15 20:07:35 2009 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda brown) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:07:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Member Message-ID: Hi, I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to join the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over the last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone know how I can join the division? Miranda From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 15 20:24:06 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 13:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability Message-ID: <981627.2481.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From liz.bottner at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 22:14:30 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:14:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha In-Reply-To: <20090413113929.GB7896@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> <20090412145419.GA588@yumi.bluecherry.net> <20090413113929.GB7896@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <49e65c2b.c5c2f10a.1940.6686@mx.google.com> Cool. Thanks for posting your findings. I, for one, definitely appreciate it. I would be interested to know if they follow up on your response. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From iwilcox2011 at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 03:32:03 2009 From: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com (Isaiah Wilcox) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:32:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser Message-ID: <13313545-E107-49AB-A4F0-5B71DC0D4728@gmail.com> THIS JUST IN! THIS JUST IN! The Georgia Association of Blind Students (GABS) is selling some fabulous T-Shirts for their first fundraiser. A description of the shirt is as follows: The shirt is of a royal blue color. Printed on the front of the shirt is the Whoseit logo along with the unique saying, “Everyday People Living Life Everyday!” beneath it in an elegant metallic silver. GABS would like for you to support our first fundraiser by purchasing a shirt. One shirt, sized small to extra- large, costs only twelve dollars. And a shirt sized 2X or 3X is just an additional three dollars. If you would like to purchase a shirt, please contact me either by e-mail or by phone. Just send me your name, your telephone number, your e-mail address, your mailing address, and the sizes and quantity of shirts that you want. The way that we are going to distribute the shirts are by mail: once we receive your payment, we will mail your shirt(s) to you. I have picture of the shirt if you would like to view it before you buy it. As always, the Georgia Association of Blind Students appreciates your support. Thanks in advanced. Isaiah Wilcox Phone: 404-291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Wed Apr 15 23:58:51 2009 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:58:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Message-ID: hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” --Aristotle From noreply at serotek.com Thu Apr 16 04:48:18 2009 From: noreply at serotek.com (Serotek Announcements) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:48:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] 200 Reasons not to Purchase an SMA Message-ID: Now through April 30, Serotek is offering $200 off System Access Mobile™ for anyone whose software maintenance agreement has lapsed, or who is not entitled to any additional upgrades with their SMA for Jaws® for Windows® or Window-Eyes™. Break away from the tyranny of price gouging for trivial updates. For just $299, purchase System Access for two computers that you can change at any time, p lus one license for a U3 Smart Drive that you can use to make any computer come alive with speech, Braille, and screen magnification. And with free upgrades for life, this will be the last money you will need to spend for regularly-updated and innovative screen reading and magnification. Are you wondering just how cost effective this decision would be for you? Let’s take a look at cases where an individual owns the latest software version of their screen reader, noting that an upgrade path would be even more expensive for those who are behind on their upgrades. You could choose to purchase a software maintenance agreement for JAWS 10.0 standard edition for $180, entitling you to two software upgrades, at which point another SMA purchase would be necessary. You could choose to purchase a software maintenance agreement for WindowEyes 7. 1 standard edition for $299, entitling you to three software upgrades at which point another software maintenance agreement purchase would be necessary. Or, you could just provide your serial number as proof that your SMA is past due, and System Access for two computers and one U3-enabled USB license is yours for only $299, that's $200 off the regular price of $499. To get started, simply visit the “my account” section of an existing SAMNet account. You can do this by opening the System Access menu with modifier+f and choosing the “My account” option, or by choosing option 16 from the SA Mobile Network Home screen. If you do not yet have an account with Serotek, you may create one by visiting www.satogo.com and choosing the “create new account” option. Once you have logged in and accessed the “my account” option, choose “buy more products and services” and follow the prompts in the buy wizard. You can also receive assistance from a Serotek sales representative by calling (612) 246-4818. The Serotek Team From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 16 06:34:33 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:34:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil 1000 V11 Message-ID: <417106C9616243E681239974D4EF695E@david6a79a76fb> Good morning all, I have an unopened copy of Kurzweil 1000 V11 for sale. For those of you unfamiliar with this piece of software, please feel free to write me off-list. I'm asking $700 for the package which includes shipping. Payment via Paypal is preferred. Please feel free to give me a shout with any questions. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com Mobile: (512)203-2474 Webpage: http://www.knfbreader.com From Neils at dessci.com Thu Apr 16 06:23:51 2009 From: Neils at dessci.com (Neil Soiffer) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:23:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] MathDaisy 1.0 Released Message-ID: Apologies for the commercial nature of this post, but it is something of interest to many people on the list... We at Design Science are happy to announce the release of our newest product, MathDaisy. Many educational institutions now require teachers, instructors, and professors to make classroom materials accessible to students with disabilities. MathDaisy makes it possible to save Microsoft Word documents containing equations as a DAISY book that can be read by students on a personal computer or a dedicated eBook reader. The press release has been published on our website at http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/090413.htm Our hope is that MathDaisy together with Word's Save as DAISY makes it easy enough to publish DAISY "books" with math in them that anyone can, and more importantly, will create accessible material to give to their students, colleagues, etc. Neil Soiffer Senior Scientist Design Science, Inc. www.dessci.com ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation Editor ~ From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 19:00:39 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:00:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha In-Reply-To: <49e65c2b.c5c2f10a.1940.6686@mx.google.com> References: <49e1506c.85c2f10a.7dd8.ffffc97c@mx.google.com> <20090412145419.GA588@yumi.bluecherry.net> <20090413113929.GB7896@yumi.bluecherry.net> <49e65c2b.c5c2f10a.1940.6686@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090416190039.GF29715@yumi.bluecherry.net> We've had a nice discussion about how people assume that hard for humans is hard for computers, and that it isn't generally so. We talked about how the current audio CAPTCHAs are often harder to use for some of us than getting someone to read the printed ones. The creator doesn't really understand the algorithmic aspects of audio manipulation. I explained what PCM samples are (16 bit signed numbers representing sound waveform amplitude over time for the nerds on the list) and that mixing two sounds was just a matter of adding them together and clipping the waveform if necessary. (You don't want it to be since that distorts sound.) So the developer is open to coming up with an equivalent we can use, but doesn't really know how to do it. In the meantime, given the choice between having us unable to use the site and having the site clogged with spam, however, we lose. Joseph On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 06:14:30PM -0400, Liz Bottner wrote: >Cool. Thanks for posting your findings. I, for one, definitely appreciate >it. I would be interested to know if they follow up on your response. > >Liz > >email: >liz.bottner at gmail.com >Visit my livejournal: >http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  >Follow me on Twitter: >http://twitter.com/lizbot >Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March >for Independence: >http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea >m&fr_id=1050 > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Apr 17 02:02:52 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors References: Message-ID: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From NLSDownload at loc.gov Fri Apr 17 03:50:53 2009 From: NLSDownload at loc.gov (NLSDownload NLSDownload) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:50:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service Message-ID: To all users of the NLS download pilot service: The pilot phase of the NLS downloadable audiobooks and magazines service will end April 28, 2009. It will be replaced by the permanent service Braille and Audio Reading Download (BARD), which you will be able to access at a new web site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, beginning Thursday, April 30, 2009. Users who know their passwords will be able to log on to the new site; users who rely on their browsers to remember their passwords will need new ones (follow instructions in Section II). All user accounts will be migrated to the new system, so you do not need to reapply. All materials previously downloaded will remain usable, so you will not need to redownload your reading material. This message describes what’s new about BARD and explains what steps must be taken to access the new site. Please read the entire message carefully. Section I. What’s new about BARD: 1. Unlimited downloading. The BARD service will no longer limit the number of books and magazines that you may download. Any account holder may download any item at any time. During heavy demand, however, NLS may limit the number of simultaneous downloads for each account. 2. New logon page. The site login will now use a form rather than a dialog box. It is the same type of logon found on most Internet pages and should be immediately familiar to users of other sites. This is an important note for screen-reader users. 3. New search functionality. BARD searches will yield more effective results. The use of multiple search terms will return only results containing all of the terms. 4. New “Most Popular Books” list. By selecting the “Most Popular Book” link from the home page, users may access a list of the top twenty most downloaded books on the BARD service in the last ninety days. Fiction and nonfiction titles will be listed separately. 5. Redesigned magazine section. The “Recently Added Magazines” link will now display links to only the most recent issue of each magazine. Magazines older than one year may be accessed from each title’s magazine archive. Links to the archive are at the bottom of each magazine’s page. Section II. Take the following steps to access the new site: 1. You must know your login ID and password to log on to the new site. For all users, your login ID is your e-mail address. 2. If you know your login ID and password, you will not need to do anything. Simply access the new site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, starting Thursday, April 30. 3. If you have forgotten your password, you must obtain a new one before you can log on to the new site. Since the new site has a different address from the pilot site, you cannot rely on your web browser to automatically log in to BARD. 4. If you do not know your password but you are able to automatically log on to the pilot site because your browser knows your password, you must choose a new password. To do so, select the link “Update My Settings” from the site home page. From the settings page, select the first link, “Change Your Password.” Enter your new password twice, and then select the “Change Password” button. Remember this new password to access BARD. 5. If you cannot log on to the site because you do not know your password, you may have a new one sent to you. Access the password recovery page at https://www.nlstalkingbooks.org/cgi-bin/public/dtbscripts_v2/recoverpw.cgi. Enter your e-mail address and then select the “Send Me a New Password” button. A new temporary password will be generated and sent to your e-mail address. Once you retrieve the password, log on to the site and choose your new password. Remember this new password to access BARD. 6. If for some reason you are not able to use any of these options, please send a request for a new password to NLSDownload at loc.gov. Because of the anticipated large number of requests, please expect your new password within two business days. The last day of availability of the pilot site will be Tuesday, April 28. The service will not be available at all on Wednesday, April 29, to allow user accounts to be migrated to the new site, which will be available on Thursday, April 30. NLS appreciates all who have participated in the pilot test. Your feedback has allowed us to continuously improve the site and to plan future expansions, such as the inclusion of braille books. Though the pilot phase is ending, we remain open to your feedback about the BARD service. Please send your comments to NLSDownload at loc.gov. Send questions or requests about the book and magazine collection to your library. From blindhistory at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 04:01:54 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:01:54 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: It is just a formality and legality. I have had problems with professors who have gone back on their part of the letter. By having them sign the letter you have a signature to back you up. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Serena wrote: > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From cowboy0210 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 04:15:59 2009 From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com (cowboy0210 at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:15:59 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser In-Reply-To: <13313545-E107-49AB-A4F0-5B71DC0D4728@gmail.com> References: <13313545-E107-49AB-A4F0-5B71DC0D4728@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1856211733-1239941755-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1223742320-@bxe1064.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Dear Mr. Wilcox, Good eveving. How soon will shirts actually be physically available? Is there a remote possibility Mr. Anil Lewis might be able to bring a couple next weekend to the Utah State convention? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Isaiah Wilcox Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:32:03 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser THIS JUST IN! THIS JUST IN! The Georgia Association of Blind Students (GABS) is selling some fabulous T-Shirts for their first fundraiser. A description of the shirt is as follows: The shirt is of a royal blue color. Printed on the front of the shirt is the Whoseit logo along with the unique saying, “Everyday People Living Life Everyday!” beneath it in an elegant metallic silver. GABS would like for you to support our first fundraiser by purchasing a shirt. One shirt, sized small to extra- large, costs only twelve dollars. And a shirt sized 2X or 3X is just an additional three dollars. If you would like to purchase a shirt, please contact me either by e-mail or by phone. Just send me your name, your telephone number, your e-mail address, your mailing address, and the sizes and quantity of shirts that you want. The way that we are going to distribute the shirts are by mail: once we receive your payment, we will mail your shirt(s) to you. I have picture of the shirt if you would like to view it before you buy it. As always, the Georgia Association of Blind Students appreciates your support. Thanks in advanced. Isaiah Wilcox Phone: 404-291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com From cassonw at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 04:47:40 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:47:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <981627.2481.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <981627.2481.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987@mail.gmail.com> I was under the impression that employers were required to provide 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that should not effect their desision. Just my two cents, Bill VP Oregon Association of Blind Students 503-768-8982 cassonw at gmail.com On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hey all, > > As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces > others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of > you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > > > > > http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > > I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, > Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 05:02:08 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to explain the legistics. Bill On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From hfurney at bgsu.edu Fri Apr 17 05:04:54 2009 From: hfurney at bgsu.edu (Hannah G Furney) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:04:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are blind. Thanks. Hannah Furney National Federation of the Blind From computerguy6428 at samobile.net Fri Apr 17 05:11:55 2009 From: computerguy6428 at samobile.net (Dave Webster) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:11:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <20090417051155.759.46730@web3.serotek.com> I use to go to bars and drink all the time. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From blindhistory at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 05:37:26 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:37:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state In-Reply-To: <198813.38060.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <198813.38060.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: For the time being could you have the officers also be board members? What my state has doneis that we have combined the secretary/treasurer position into one position held by one person which has helped some. On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind > Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other student > division leaders for advice. > > Background: > The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. > The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 > The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of > approx 50,000 > The largest university has less than 10 blind students > The MABS has approx 5 members > The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, treasurer) > and 4 board members > The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. > > I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our > leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally doubt > the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. > > I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our > organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok to > leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I > disagree on both counts. > > In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary > position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know what > I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president to > being a dictator. > > I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have to > say. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 17 05:49:46 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California Message-ID: <504001.51759.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be Sacramento, CA.  If you think you might be interested, let me know. Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 05:51:35 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB@sarahd0fffdcf6> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 sense worth. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 17 07:21:00 2009 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:21:00 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> References: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> Message-ID: What do you want to know about going to bar as blind person? From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah G Furney Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:05 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are blind. Thanks. Hannah Furney National Federation of the Blind _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 17 07:22:52 2009 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:22:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would write my own letter. You are the person taking the class and blind so you know what you need and do not need. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; MnABS listserve; WABS listserv Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From habnkid at aol.com Fri Apr 17 08:33:41 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:33:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49E83EE5.4070303@aol.com> Hey Jordan, before I was even sure of attending this college I contacted the DSS office to alert them to what I would need and to ask them how they would go about fulfilling those accommodations. They've used the information I've given them to compose letters to my professors. Each term I always have a talk with professors before and after class because the messages in that letter don't always get through. This semester I plan to introduce my professors to the braille process and our embosser before fall term even begins. That way I hope that things will move smoothly from day one, and not week two. As to your question, it really all depends on the folks at your DSS office. Do you trust them to write a good letter? If you don't, then you should definitely write it yourself and let the DSS office know you'll do that, perhaps just to keep open those friendly communication channels. good luck, Haben Jordan Richardson wrote: > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 10:29:49 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:29:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB@Jessica> Miranda, What pare the United States are you in because they have regionally people that would be put in charge of reach you? Also Terri may not be the right person for you to be contacting. Also if you go to http://www.nabslinks.org you can join Nabs a large with out having to join a state affiliate. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miranda brown" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Member > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to > join > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over > the > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From nefamphetamine at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 11:31:06 2009 From: nefamphetamine at gmail.com (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:31:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California In-Reply-To: <504001.51759.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <504001.51759.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3d644bc30904170431r34e43ca4k68ed30ebb60b0b5c@mail.gmail.com> Would I ever be interested! Do you have an agenda ready? On 4/17/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hey all, > I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day > camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and > King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come > along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be > Sacramento, CA.  If you think you might be interested, let me know. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com > From len at gatamundo.com Fri Apr 17 11:40:40 2009 From: len at gatamundo.com (Len Burns) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:40:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987@mail.gmail.com> References: <981627.2481.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49E86AB8.1050002@gatamundo.com> My own experience is that there is the law, and then the strategic choices you need to make to maximize your chances of being hired. If somebody does not want to hire you, there are dozens of ways to justify this without overtly mentioning blindness. I neither emphasize nor de-emphasize my blindness. It is simply an aspect of who I am in life. I deal with this with potential employers in exactly the same manner. I am matter of fact, and practical. If I need an accommodation in the hiring process, I might choose to discuss my blindness in that context. If not, I manage it in the interview itself. I often ask outright of any concerns held by the interviewers so that I may dispell them in the open. I know that what is not asked is a lot more dangerous to me than what is out on the table. -Len Bill wrote: > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. >> >> >> >> >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp >> >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 11:56:39 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:56:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Miranda, My first question is regarding where you live. Most states ideally have a student division, but due to the need of student participation and leadership, that is not always the case. If you visit the Student Division main site: www.nabslink.org You will find a link that is labeled State Divisions. This will give you a message about not being completed, but if you keep scrolling you will receive a list of states with the appropriate contact. Now a few states are also being reorganized due to a lack of leadership, or other reasons. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me using the below information. Sincerely, Mandarino Mobile: (706) 399-6993 Email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miranda brown Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:08 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] Member Hi, I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to join the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over the last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone know how I can join the division? Miranda _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri Apr 17 13:55:56 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:55:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090417095556.i7521h6j48oo808o@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi Jordan, I think that notifying your professors one way or the other is essential for you to be accommodated. I think your approach should be twofold: have the DSS office write a letter if that is there procedure but also write or phone your professors yourself to tell them specifically what you need. That way they can put a name to a face, you can put a name to a voice, and that knowledge will make it much easier for you to get any help you may need later. If you take the initiative now both parties will feel more comfortable with each other if something comes up. HTH, Sarah Quoting Jordan Richardson : > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > From fowlers at syix.com Fri Apr 17 15:40:25 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:40:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Science advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28B9112D40E44290A6DDE966F28F2C69@angelab> Could you please post these responses on list? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Isaiah Wilcox Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Science advice Good day ladies and gentlemen. I, along with a colleague, need some feedback from individuals who have taken any science courses. For example, I would like to know what accommodations were made for you, what are some things to be aware of, or what couldn't you do? If you could, e-mail me off of the list, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -- Isaiah Wilcox 830 Westview Dr. SW Morehouse College Unit #140940 Atlanta Ga, 30314 Cell: (404) 291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From fowlers at syix.com Fri Apr 17 16:13:17 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:13:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB@sarahd0fffdcf6> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> <941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB@sarahd0fffdcf6> Message-ID: The DSS office is there to help us, not to dictate to us that we follow rules which other students are not subject too. I personally let the DSS office put me in contact with the professors and handle getting the book lists and such, but once I actually meet the professor I deal with them one-on-one as much as possible. If there's a handout I need, I'll ask them to email it. Often the DSS office never sees it. If your DSS office is dictating the way you relate to a professor, they are way out of line. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:52 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 sense worth. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 17 16:42:44 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:42:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Message-ID: <569123.3166.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In regard to writing individual letters to professors, in the past, I wrote each professor a standard email introducing me and me also copied the DS office on that email. This kept lines of communication open so misunderstandings were kept to a minimum. Keep coppies of all emails so they can be used as evidence in proving discrimination issues at your college. From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 17:06:20 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:06:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Member In-Reply-To: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB@Jessica> Message-ID: Just as a correction point, the address is: www.nabslink.org/ Thanks, Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jess Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 6:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member Miranda, What pare the United States are you in because they have regionally people that would be put in charge of reach you? Also Terri may not be the right person for you to be contacting. Also if you go to http://www.nabslinks.org you can join Nabs a large with out having to join a state affiliate. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miranda brown" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Member > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting > to join the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of > times over the last couple of months and and have not heard anything > back. Does anyone know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask. > reagan%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4012 (20090416) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4016 (20090417) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4016 (20090417) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 17 17:14:38 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:14:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state References: <198813.38060.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00fc01c9bf7f$ff0f89d0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, Good for those members! North Dakota has about 20 members state-wide and they're doing big things. If you want your affiliate, chapter, or division to grow you must first believe that it can despite the difficulties. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: "NABS mail list" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state Hello, My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other student division leaders for advice. Background: The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of approx 50,000 The largest university has less than 10 blind students The MABS has approx 5 members The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, treasurer) and 4 board members The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally doubt the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok to leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I disagree on both counts. In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know what I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president to being a dictator. I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have to say. Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From passionflower505 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 17 17:18:21 2009 From: passionflower505 at yahoo.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:18:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] spss Message-ID: <818329.75794.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I apologize, but i have to ask this question again. Apparently i accidentally spammed one of the nabs emails which explains why i haven't been receiving them for about a month, but anyways, for psych, i have to take research classes that require the use of spss. I know there has been some discussion of it on the list, but i was curious about its accessibility. Is it accessible with jaws, or is there a good alternative? Thanks Cindy Bennett President: NC Association of Blind Students From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 17:43:48 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:43:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007f01c9bf84$1115cf00$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I just wrote up what accomadations I need and gave it to the school. They will give them to the teachers so the teachers can help me out. In my experience the teachers have also asked me what else they can do to help me in the best way possible. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:02 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Hi, I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to explain the legistics. Bill On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i > had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have > the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 18:35:00 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:35:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> References: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1@MAIL6.bgsu.edu> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904171135r15ff33ebla059d41d928898f2@mail.gmail.com> It's no big deal. A bar is a bar, and going to a bar would be kind of fun, and ordering drinks is a good thing. But still. Beth On 4/17/09, Hannah G Furney wrote: > Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if > anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are > blind. Thanks. > > Hannah Furney > National Federation of the Blind > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From braillewoman at earthlink.net Fri Apr 17 19:49:59 2009 From: braillewoman at earthlink.net (Marianne Haas) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:49:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <49E86AB8.1050002@gatamundo.com> Message-ID: <007801c9bf95$b12cdef0$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> I am blind myself and it depends. I usually disclose before an in terview since otherwise interviewers are shocked and do not do a good job interviewing. It is true that some people will find excuses not to interview me. I would not want to work for someone who will find every excuse n ot to hire me. Marianne -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Len Burns Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:41 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability My own experience is that there is the law, and then the strategic choices you need to make to maximize your chances of being hired. If somebody does not want to hire you, there are dozens of ways to justify this without overtly mentioning blindness. I neither emphasize nor de-emphasize my blindness. It is simply an aspect of who I am in life. I deal with this with potential employers in exactly the same manner. I am matter of fact, and practical. If I need an accommodation in the hiring process, I might choose to discuss my blindness in that context. If not, I manage it in the interview itself. I often ask outright of any concerns held by the interviewers so that I may dispell them in the open. I know that what is not asked is a lot more dangerous to me than what is out on the table. -Len Bill wrote: > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. >> >> >> >> >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_j sdisc.hcsp >> >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/braillewoman%40earth link.net From bpollpeter at hotmail.com Fri Apr 17 19:51:43 2009 From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 14:51:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 accomodations letter to professors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I do not believe that any student with a disability need make disclosures to their professors beforehand. A student with a disability knows what works and what does not work for them in the classroom environment. Despite what some may think, we are the experts about our disabilities. Should an instructor have any questions for me I am more than willing to answer them. I am also ornery and like the surprise on most professors faces when I show up to the first day of class! Bridgit Pollpeter > From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:00:02 -0500 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. MathDaisy 1.0 Released (Neil Soiffer) > 2. Re: FW: a new type of captcha (T. Joseph Carter) > 3. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Serena) > 4. PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service > (NLSDownload NLSDownload) > 5. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Lora) > 6. Re: GABS Fundraiser (cowboy0210 at gmail.com) > 7. Re: Job seekers- disclosing disability (Bill) > 8. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Bill) > 9. (no subject) (Hannah G Furney) > 10. Re: (no subject) (Dave Webster) > 11. Re: Sustaining a student division in a rural state (Lora) > 12. OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip > exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California > (Jim Reed) > 13. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Sarah Alawami) > 14. Re: (no subject) (Jacob Struiksma) > 15. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Jacob Struiksma) > 16. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Haben Girma) > 17. Re: Member (Jess) > 18. Re: OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day > trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in > California (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) > 19. Re: Job seekers- disclosing disability (Len Burns) > 20. Re: Member (Jason Mandarino) > 21. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors > (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) > 22. Re: Science advice (Angela fowler) > 23. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Angela fowler) > 24. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (William ODonnell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:23:51 -0500 > From: Neil Soiffer (by way of David Andrews > ) > Subject: [nabs-l] MathDaisy 1.0 Released > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Apologies for the commercial nature of this post, but it is something of > interest to many people on the list... > > We at Design Science are happy to announce the release of our newest > product, MathDaisy. Many educational institutions now require teachers, > instructors, and professors to make classroom materials accessible to > students with disabilities. MathDaisy makes it possible to save > Microsoft Word documents containing equations as a DAISY book that can > be read by students on a personal computer or a dedicated eBook reader. > > The press release has been published on our website at > http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/090413.htm > > Our hope is that MathDaisy together with Word's Save as DAISY makes it easy > enough to publish DAISY "books" with math in them that anyone can, and more > importantly, will create accessible material to give to their students, > colleagues, etc. > > Neil Soiffer > Senior Scientist > Design Science, Inc. > www.dessci.com > ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation > Editor ~ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:00:39 -0700 > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <20090416190039.GF29715 at yumi.bluecherry.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > We've had a nice discussion about how people assume that hard for > humans is hard for computers, and that it isn't generally so. We > talked about how the current audio CAPTCHAs are often harder to use > for some of us than getting someone to read the printed ones. > > The creator doesn't really understand the algorithmic aspects of > audio manipulation. I explained what PCM samples are (16 bit signed > numbers representing sound waveform amplitude over time for the nerds > on the list) and that mixing two sounds was just a matter of adding > them together and clipping the waveform if necessary. (You don't > want it to be since that distorts sound.) > > So the developer is open to coming up with an equivalent we can use, > but doesn't really know how to do it. In the meantime, given the > choice between having us unable to use the site and having the site > clogged with spam, however, we lose. > > Joseph > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 06:14:30PM -0400, Liz Bottner wrote: > >Cool. Thanks for posting your findings. I, for one, definitely appreciate > >it. I would be interested to know if they follow up on your response. > > > >Liz > > > >email: > >liz.bottner at gmail.com > >Visit my livejournal: > >http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com? > >Follow me on Twitter: > >http://twitter.com/lizbot > >Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March > >for Independence: > >http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea > >m&fr_id=1050 > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:52 -0400 > From: "Serena" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0 at Serene> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:50:53 -0500 > From: NLSDownload NLSDownload (by way of David > Andrews ) > Subject: [nabs-l] PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > To all users of the NLS download pilot service: > > The pilot phase of the NLS downloadable audiobooks and magazines > service will end April 28, 2009. It will be replaced by the permanent > service Braille and Audio Reading Download (BARD), which you will be > able to access at a new web site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, beginning > Thursday, April 30, 2009. > > Users who know their passwords will be able to log on to the new site; > users who rely on their browsers to remember their passwords will need > new ones (follow instructions in Section II). All user accounts will be > migrated to the new system, so you do not need to reapply. All > materials previously downloaded will remain usable, so you will not need > to redownload your reading material. > > This message describes what???s new about BARD and explains what steps > must be taken to access the new site. Please read the entire message > carefully. > > Section I. What???s new about BARD: > > 1. Unlimited downloading. The BARD service will no longer limit the > number of books and magazines that you may download. Any account holder > may download any item at any time. During heavy demand, however, NLS > may limit the number of simultaneous downloads for each account. > > 2. New logon page. The site login will now use a form rather than a > dialog box. It is the same type of logon found on most Internet pages > and should be immediately familiar to users of other sites. This is an > important note for screen-reader users. > > 3. New search functionality. BARD searches will yield more effective > results. The use of multiple search terms will return only results > containing all of the terms. > > 4. New ???Most Popular Books??? list. By selecting the ???Most Popular > Book??? link from the home page, users may access a list of the top > twenty most downloaded books on the BARD service in the last ninety > days. Fiction and nonfiction titles will be listed separately. > > 5. Redesigned magazine section. The ???Recently Added Magazines??? > link will now display links to only the most recent issue of each > magazine. Magazines older than one year may be accessed from each > title???s magazine archive. Links to the archive are at the bottom of > each magazine???s page. > > > Section II. Take the following steps to access the new site: > > 1. You must know your login ID and password to log on to the new site. > For all users, your login ID is your e-mail address. > > 2. If you know your login ID and password, you will not need to do > anything. Simply access the new site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, starting > Thursday, April 30. > > 3. If you have forgotten your password, you must obtain a new one > before you can log on to the new site. Since the new site has a > different address from the pilot site, you cannot rely on your web > browser to automatically log in to BARD. > > 4. If you do not know your password but you are able to automatically > log on to the pilot site because your browser knows your password, you > must choose a new password. To do so, select the link ???Update My > Settings??? from the site home page. From the settings page, select the > first link, ???Change Your Password.??? Enter your new password twice, > and then select the ???Change Password??? button. Remember this new > password to access BARD. > > 5. If you cannot log on to the site because you do not know your > password, you may have a new one sent to you. Access the password > recovery page at > https://www.nlstalkingbooks.org/cgi-bin/public/dtbscripts_v2/recoverpw.cgi. > Enter your e-mail address and then select the ???Send Me a New > Password??? button. A new temporary password will be generated and sent > to your e-mail address. Once you retrieve the password, log on to the > site and choose your new password. Remember this new password to access > BARD. > > 6. If for some reason you are not able to use any of these options, > please send a request for a new password to NLSDownload at loc.gov. > Because of the anticipated large number of requests, please expect your > new password within two business days. > > The last day of availability of the pilot site will be Tuesday, April > 28. The service will not be available at all on Wednesday, April 29, to > allow user accounts to be migrated to the new site, which will be > available on Thursday, April 30. > > NLS appreciates all who have participated in the pilot test. Your > feedback has allowed us to continuously improve the site and to plan > future expansions, such as the inclusion of braille books. Though the > pilot phase is ending, we remain open to your feedback about the BARD > service. Please send your comments to NLSDownload at loc.gov. Send > questions or requests about the book and magazine collection to your > library. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:01:54 -0600 > From: Lora > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > It is just a formality and legality. I have had problems with professors who > have gone back on their part of the letter. By having them sign the letter > you have a signature to back you up. > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Serena wrote: > > > Hi Jordan > > > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > > > Serena > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > > thx, > > > > -- > > Jordan Richardson > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > > --Aristotle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Lora > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:15:59 +0000 > From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: > <1856211733-1239941755-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1223742320- at bxe1064.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Dear Mr. Wilcox, > > Good eveving. How soon will shirts actually be physically available? Is there a remote possibility Mr. Anil Lewis might be able to bring a couple next weekend to the Utah State convention? > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Isaiah Wilcox > > Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:32:03 > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser > > > THIS JUST IN! THIS JUST IN! > > The Georgia Association of Blind Students (GABS) is selling some > fabulous T-Shirts for their first fundraiser. A description of the > shirt is as follows: The shirt is of a royal blue color. Printed on > the front of the shirt is the Whoseit logo along with the unique > saying, ?Everyday People Living Life Everyday!? beneath it in an > elegant metallic silver. GABS would like for you to support our first > fundraiser by purchasing a shirt. One shirt, sized small to extra- > large, costs only twelve dollars. And a shirt sized 2X or 3X is just > an additional three dollars. If you would like to purchase a shirt, > please contact me either by e-mail or by phone. Just send me your > name, your telephone number, your e-mail address, your mailing > address, and the sizes and quantity of shirts that you want. The way > that we are going to distribute the shirts are by mail: once we > receive your payment, we will mail your shirt(s) to you. I have > picture of the shirt if you would like to view it before you buy it. > As always, the Georgia Association of Blind Students appreciates your > support. Thanks in advanced. > > > Isaiah Wilcox > Phone: 404-291-7791 > E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:47:40 -0700 > From: Bill > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces > > others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of > > you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > > > > I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, > > Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:08 -0700 > From: Bill > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hi, > I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think > that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the > person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but > rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see > no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more > likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS > office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the > professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a > letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need > this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to > explain the legistics. > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: > > > Hi Jordan > > > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > > > Serena > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > > > > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > > thx, > > > > -- > > Jordan Richardson > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > > --Aristotle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:04:54 -0400 > From: Hannah G Furney > Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Message-ID: > <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1 at MAIL6.bgsu.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are blind. Thanks. > > Hannah Furney > National Federation of the Blind > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:11:55 -0400 > From: Dave Webster > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: <20090417051155.759.46730 at web3.serotek.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" > > I use to go to bars and drink all the time. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:37:26 -0600 > From: Lora > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > For the time being could you have the officers also be board members? What > my state has doneis that we have combined the secretary/treasurer position > into one position held by one person which has helped some. > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > > Hello, > > My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind > > Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other student > > division leaders for advice. > > > > Background: > > The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. > > The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 > > The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of > > approx 50,000 > > The largest university has less than 10 blind students > > The MABS has approx 5 members > > The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, treasurer) > > and 4 board members > > The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. > > > > I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our > > leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally doubt > > the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. > > > > I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our > > organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok to > > leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I > > disagree on both counts. > > > > In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary > > position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know what > > I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president to > > being a dictator. > > > > I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have to > > say. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Lora > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:49:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Reed > Subject: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a > 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in > California > To: NABS mail list > Message-ID: <504001.51759.qm at web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hey all, > I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be Sacramento, CA.? If you think you might be interested, let me know. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 > From: "Sarah Alawami" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB at sarahd0fffdcf6> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule > follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists > the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 > sense worth. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Serena > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:21:00 -0700 > From: "Jacob Struiksma" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > What do you want to know about going to bar as blind person? > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Hannah G Furney > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:05 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if > anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are > blind. Thanks. > > Hannah Furney > National Federation of the Blind > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:22:52 -0700 > From: "Jacob Struiksma" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I would write my own letter. You are the person taking the class and blind > so you know what you need and do not need. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Jordan Richardson > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; MnABS listserve; > WABS listserv > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:33:41 -0700 > From: Haben Girma > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49E83EE5.4070303 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > > Hey Jordan, before I was even sure of attending this college I contacted > the DSS office to alert them to what I would need and to ask them how > they would go about fulfilling those accommodations. They've used the > information I've given them to compose letters to my professors. Each > term I always have a talk with professors before and after class because > the messages in that letter don't always get through. This semester I > plan to introduce my professors to the braille process and our embosser > before fall term even begins. That way I hope that things will move > smoothly from day one, and not week two. > > As to your question, it really all depends on the folks at your DSS > office. Do you trust them to write a good letter? If you don't, then you > should definitely write it yourself and let the DSS office know you'll > do that, perhaps just to keep open those friendly communication channels. > > good luck, > Haben > > Jordan Richardson wrote: > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > > thx, > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:29:49 -0400 > From: "Jess" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB at Jessica> > > Miranda, > What pare the United States are you in because they have regionally people > that would be put in charge of reach you? Also Terri may not be the right > person for you to be contacting. Also if you go to http://www.nabslinks.org > you can join Nabs a large with out having to join a state affiliate. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miranda brown" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Member > > > > Hi, > > > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to > > join > > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over > > the > > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > > know how I can join the division? > > > > Miranda > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:31:06 -0400 > From: Nefertiti Matos Olivares > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a > 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in > California > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <3d644bc30904170431r34e43ca4k68ed30ebb60b0b5c at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Would I ever be interested! Do you have an agenda ready? > > On 4/17/09, Jim Reed wrote: > > Hey all, > > I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day > > camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and > > King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come > > along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be > > Sacramento, CA.? If you think you might be interested, let me know. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:40:40 -0700 > From: Len Burns > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49E86AB8.1050002 at gatamundo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > My own experience is that there is the law, and then the strategic > choices you need to make to maximize your chances of being hired. If > somebody does not want to hire you, there are dozens of ways to justify > this without overtly mentioning blindness. > > I neither emphasize nor de-emphasize my blindness. It is simply an > aspect of who I am in life. I deal with this with potential employers > in exactly the same manner. I am matter of fact, and practical. If I > need an accommodation in the hiring process, I might choose to discuss > my blindness in that context. If not, I manage it in the interview > itself. I often ask outright of any concerns held by the interviewers > so that I may dispell them in the open. I know that what is not asked > is a lot more dangerous to me than what is out on the table. > > -Len > > Bill wrote: > > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > > should not effect their desision. > > Just my two cents, > > Bill VP > > Oregon Association of Blind Students > > 503-768-8982 > > cassonw at gmail.com > > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > > >> Hey all, > >> > >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces > >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of > >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > >> > >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, > >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> > >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:56:39 -0400 > From: "Jason Mandarino" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Miranda, > > My first question is regarding where you live. Most states ideally have a > student division, but due to the need of student participation and > leadership, that is not always the case. > > If you visit the Student Division main site: > www.nabslink.org > You will find a link that is labeled State Divisions. > This will give you a message about not being completed, but if you keep > scrolling you will receive a list of states with the appropriate contact. > > Now a few states are also being reorganized due to a lack of leadership, or > other reasons. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me > using the below information. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > Mobile: (706) 399-6993 > Email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Miranda brown > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:08 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Member > > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to join > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over the > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:55:56 -0400 > From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: <20090417095556.i7521h6j48oo808o at webmail.utoronto.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" > > Hi Jordan, > I think that notifying your professors one way or the other is > essential for you to be accommodated. I think your approach should be > twofold: have the DSS office write a letter if that is there procedure > but also write or phone your professors yourself to tell them > specifically what you need. That way they can put a name to a face, > you can put a name to a voice, and that knowledge will make it much > easier for you to get any help you may need later. If you take the > initiative now both parties will feel more comfortable with each other > if something comes up. > HTH, > Sarah > > > Quoting Jordan Richardson : > > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > > thx, > > > > -- > > Jordan Richardson > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > > --Aristotle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:40:25 -0700 > From: "Angela fowler" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Science advice > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <28B9112D40E44290A6DDE966F28F2C69 at angelab> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Could you please post these responses on list? > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Isaiah Wilcox > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Science advice > > Good day ladies and gentlemen. > > I, along with a colleague, need some feedback from individuals who have > taken any science courses. For example, I would like to know what > accommodations were made for you, what are some things to be aware of, or > what couldn't you do? If you could, e-mail me off of the list, that would > be greatly appreciated. Thanks > > -- > Isaiah Wilcox > 830 Westview Dr. SW > Morehouse College Unit #140940 > Atlanta Ga, 30314 > > Cell: (404) 291-7791 > E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:13:17 -0700 > From: "Angela fowler" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The DSS office is there to help us, not to dictate to us that we follow > rules which other students are not subject too. I personally let the DSS > office put me in contact with the professors and handle getting the book > lists and such, but once I actually meet the professor I deal with them > one-on-one as much as possible. If there's a handout I need, I'll ask them > to email it. Often the DSS office never sees it. If your DSS office is > dictating the way you relate to a professor, they are way out of line. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:52 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule > follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists > the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 > sense worth. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Serena > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:42:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: William ODonnell > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <569123.3166.qm at web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > In regard to writing individual letters to professors, in the past, I wrote each professor a standard email introducing me and me also copied the DS office on that email. This kept lines of communication open so misunderstandings were kept to a minimum. Keep coppies of all emails so they can be used as evidence in proving discrimination issues at your college. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 > ************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009 From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Apr 17 20:02:20 2009 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:02:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jordan, Judging from some of the responses you have gotten, I believe there is some confusion about this letter. To some degree, how you handle a situation like this is going to depend upon your personal preferences and which DSS services you decide to use. As I understand things at the University of Minnesota, the purpose of any letter is at least partly to make certain the professor knows about any reasonable accommodation that you need. If you don't need any accommodations at all, you probably don't need a letter at all as some have indicated. However, if you need to make alternative test arrangements, need to sit near the front, or need hand- outs in an electronic format, you will need to communicate those needs to the professor. As I understand it, you can have the DSS office contact the professor directly or you can contact the professor. It sounds to me as though you have already decided that you will contact the professor, which is what I would do. The question is, then, whose letter to use? If you are going to use the DSS office to administer tests to you, the professor needs to know exactly what procedure needs to be followed, where to send or bring the test, to whom to send it, how much lead time is required, and so on. Obviously, if a test is to be brailled and if there are diagrams, significant lead time will be needed. Knowing you as I do, I would guess that you will want to send your own letter to the prof so you can portray yourself and what you need in a positive light. Seeing their letter, at least for the first time, might not be a bad idea so you know for certain what the exact procedure is for taking tests using the DSS office. You could still either revise their letter or incorporate the fundamentals into a letter of your own. Since I don't know what you have already discussed with the DSS office, it could be that you already are certain of the procedures and are well able to lay them out to a professor in your own words. If that is the case, you probably don't even need their letter. If you're not sure, though, seeing there letter, whether you use it or not, gives you a way to know what specifics need to be communicated. If you are not going to use any services of the DSS office, you may still want to explain how you will handle tests so that you don't run into problems on the day of the test. It isn't helpful to sit down to take your first test only to find that you are making enough noise to distract other students. It isn't always easy to find an empty room at the U of M on short notice. In my day, I just went and talked to the professor after the first class. Things were a little simpler then, though, because I was usually the only student who needed any kind of accommodations. Now, it is not that uncommon for their to be more than one student using some special equipment to be taking classes from a professor. Having something in writing on file with the professor helps insure that whatever you need is accounted for when test day comes around. I would always rather speak for myself, but I would want to be sure I covered all of the necessary bases. How you approach this is both a matter of philosophy and practicality. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:58:51 -0500, Jordan Richardson wrote: >hi all, >i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things >that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had >heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the >DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to >just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the >latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? >thx, >-- >Jordan Richardson >lilrichie411 at gmail.com > What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies >--Aristotle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From AZNOR99 at aol.com Fri Apr 17 20:12:42 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:12:42 EDT Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Letter of accommodations Message-ID: Jordan, I have been on both sides of this situation, having been a student needing accommodations and also working at a college Disability Services Office helping others obtain the accommodations they need. I think each student first needs to figure out what role they wish to play in his or her own education. For example, if you want to take a more back-seat approach, meaning you want DSS to get your books, talk to your professors, schedule your exams, then it might make sense for you to let them write the letter. However, if you want to be more involved in your education, and if you are willing to advocate for yourself, then you may want to decide whether you want or need a letter at all. You are entitled to accommodations as a blind person. But only you know which ones work best and which ones are unnecessary for you. For example, if you have a laptop or notetaker, you wouldn't need or want someone in your classes taking notes for you, right? Well, the DSS office might not know that. And if they are the mechanism used to convey to your professor what you need, then you'll always be an outsider to your own education. Some on this list have mentioned the letter as a contract between the teacher and the student. It will again, be up to you whether or not you feel a "contract" is necessary. The instructor cannot deny you an accommodation simply because you didn't submit the request in writing in advance in the form of a contract. But if you feel more comfortable writing out your expectations for the instructor and also providing a guide for what he or she should expect, then that makes sense. For myself, I always went over to introduce myself to my instructors just as soon as I registered for the following semester. At that time, I asked the instructor which textbooks and materials he or she intended to use and also explained my blindness and which accommodations I would need. This conversation usually took place in the middle of the semester prior to the course in question, so that gave me a great deal of time to acquire the books and work out accommodations. I offered to put the accommodations I would need in writing, and some of the instructors accepted, but others took notes and said they wouldn't need my write-up. I did encounter a few that wouldn't agree to provide accommodations until they received verification of my disability. In those situations, I would ask the DSS Office to write a letter stating simply that I was registered with their office as having a disability and that I would be making any and all arrangements for accommodations myself. And that worked really well for me. If you want to talk more about this, or if you have any questions, feel free to get in touch with me off-list. Good luck. Ronza In a message dated 4/17/2009 2:57:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org writes: Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to nabs-l at nfbnet.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org You can reach the person managing the list at nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. MathDaisy 1.0 Released (Neil Soiffer) 2. Re: FW: a new type of captcha (T. Joseph Carter) 3. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Serena) 4. PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service (NLSDownload NLSDownload) 5. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Lora) 6. Re: GABS Fundraiser (cowboy0210 at gmail.com) 7. Re: Job seekers- disclosing disability (Bill) 8. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Bill) 9. (no subject) (Hannah G Furney) 10. Re: (no subject) (Dave Webster) 11. Re: Sustaining a student division in a rural state (Lora) 12. OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California (Jim Reed) 13. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Sarah Alawami) 14. Re: (no subject) (Jacob Struiksma) 15. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Jacob Struiksma) 16. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Haben Girma) 17. Re: Member (Jess) 18. Re: OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) 19. Re: Job seekers- disclosing disability (Len Burns) 20. Re: Member (Jason Mandarino) 21. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) 22. Re: Science advice (Angela fowler) 23. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Angela fowler) 24. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (William ODonnell) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:23:51 -0500 From: Neil Soiffer (by way of David Andrews ) Subject: [nabs-l] MathDaisy 1.0 Released To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Apologies for the commercial nature of this post, but it is something of interest to many people on the list... We at Design Science are happy to announce the release of our newest product, MathDaisy. Many educational institutions now require teachers, instructors, and professors to make classroom materials accessible to students with disabilities. MathDaisy makes it possible to save Microsoft Word documents containing equations as a DAISY book that can be read by students on a personal computer or a dedicated eBook reader. The press release has been published on our website at http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/090413.htm Our hope is that MathDaisy together with Word's Save as DAISY makes it easy enough to publish DAISY "books" with math in them that anyone can, and more importantly, will create accessible material to give to their students, colleagues, etc. Neil Soiffer Senior Scientist Design Science, Inc. www.dessci.com ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation Editor ~ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:00:39 -0700 From: "T. Joseph Carter" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <20090416190039.GF29715 at yumi.bluecherry.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed We've had a nice discussion about how people assume that hard for humans is hard for computers, and that it isn't generally so. We talked about how the current audio CAPTCHAs are often harder to use for some of us than getting someone to read the printed ones. The creator doesn't really understand the algorithmic aspects of audio manipulation. I explained what PCM samples are (16 bit signed numbers representing sound waveform amplitude over time for the nerds on the list) and that mixing two sounds was just a matter of adding them together and clipping the waveform if necessary. (You don't want it to be since that distorts sound.) So the developer is open to coming up with an equivalent we can use, but doesn't really know how to do it. In the meantime, given the choice between having us unable to use the site and having the site clogged with spam, however, we lose. Joseph On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 06:14:30PM -0400, Liz Bottner wrote: >Cool. Thanks for posting your findings. I, for one, definitely appreciate >it. I would be interested to know if they follow up on your response. > >Liz > >email: >liz.bottner at gmail.com >Visit my livejournal: >http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com? >Follow me on Twitter: >http://twitter.com/lizbot >Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March >for Independence: >http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=te a >m&fr_id=1050 > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gm ail.com ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:52 -0400 From: "Serena" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Message-ID: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0 at Serene> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:50:53 -0500 From: NLSDownload NLSDownload (by way of David Andrews ) Subject: [nabs-l] PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed To all users of the NLS download pilot service: The pilot phase of the NLS downloadable audiobooks and magazines service will end April 28, 2009. It will be replaced by the permanent service Braille and Audio Reading Download (BARD), which you will be able to access at a new web site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, beginning Thursday, April 30, 2009. Users who know their passwords will be able to log on to the new site; users who rely on their browsers to remember their passwords will need new ones (follow instructions in Section II). All user accounts will be migrated to the new system, so you do not need to reapply. All materials previously downloaded will remain usable, so you will not need to redownload your reading material. This message describes what???s new about BARD and explains what steps must be taken to access the new site. Please read the entire message carefully. Section I. What???s new about BARD: 1. Unlimited downloading. The BARD service will no longer limit the number of books and magazines that you may download. Any account holder may download any item at any time. During heavy demand, however, NLS may limit the number of simultaneous downloads for each account. 2. New logon page. The site login will now use a form rather than a dialog box. It is the same type of logon found on most Internet pages and should be immediately familiar to users of other sites. This is an important note for screen-reader users. 3. New search functionality. BARD searches will yield more effective results. The use of multiple search terms will return only results containing all of the terms. 4. New ???Most Popular Books??? list. By selecting the ???Most Popular Book??? link from the home page, users may access a list of the top twenty most downloaded books on the BARD service in the last ninety days. Fiction and nonfiction titles will be listed separately. 5. Redesigned magazine section. The ???Recently Added Magazines??? link will now display links to only the most recent issue of each magazine. Magazines older than one year may be accessed from each title???s magazine archive. Links to the archive are at the bottom of each magazine???s page. Section II. Take the following steps to access the new site: 1. You must know your login ID and password to log on to the new site. For all users, your login ID is your e-mail address. 2. If you know your login ID and password, you will not need to do anything. Simply access the new site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, starting Thursday, April 30. 3. If you have forgotten your password, you must obtain a new one before you can log on to the new site. Since the new site has a different address from the pilot site, you cannot rely on your web browser to automatically log in to BARD. 4. If you do not know your password but you are able to automatically log on to the pilot site because your browser knows your password, you must choose a new password. To do so, select the link ???Update My Settings??? from the site home page. From the settings page, select the first link, ???Change Your Password.??? Enter your new password twice, and then select the ???Change Password??? button. Remember this new password to access BARD. 5. If you cannot log on to the site because you do not know your password, you may have a new one sent to you. Access the password recovery page at https://www.nlstalkingbooks.org/cgi-bin/public/dtbscripts_v2/recoverpw.cgi. Enter your e-mail address and then select the ???Send Me a New Password??? button. A new temporary password will be generated and sent to your e-mail address. Once you retrieve the password, log on to the site and choose your new password. Remember this new password to access BARD. 6. If for some reason you are not able to use any of these options, please send a request for a new password to NLSDownload at loc.gov. Because of the anticipated large number of requests, please expect your new password within two business days. The last day of availability of the pilot site will be Tuesday, April 28. The service will not be available at all on Wednesday, April 29, to allow user accounts to be migrated to the new site, which will be available on Thursday, April 30. NLS appreciates all who have participated in the pilot test. Your feedback has allowed us to continuously improve the site and to plan future expansions, such as the inclusion of braille books. Though the pilot phase is ending, we remain open to your feedback about the BARD service. Please send your comments to NLSDownload at loc.gov. Send questions or requests about the book and magazine collection to your library. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:01:54 -0600 From: Lora Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 It is just a formality and legality. I have had problems with professors who have gone back on their part of the letter. By having them sign the letter you have a signature to back you up. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Serena wrote: > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:15:59 +0000 From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Message-ID: <1856211733-1239941755-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1223742320-@ bxe1064.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Dear Mr. Wilcox, Good eveving. How soon will shirts actually be physically available? Is there a remote possibility Mr. Anil Lewis might be able to bring a couple next weekend to the Utah State convention? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Isaiah Wilcox Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:32:03 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser THIS JUST IN! THIS JUST IN! The Georgia Association of Blind Students (GABS) is selling some fabulous T-Shirts for their first fundraiser. A description of the shirt is as follows: The shirt is of a royal blue color. Printed on the front of the shirt is the Whoseit logo along with the unique saying, ?Everyday People Living Life Everyday!? beneath it in an elegant metallic silver. GABS would like for you to support our first fundraiser by purchasing a shirt. One shirt, sized small to extra- large, costs only twelve dollars. And a shirt sized 2X or 3X is just an additional three dollars. If you would like to purchase a shirt, please contact me either by e-mail or by phone. Just send me your name, your telephone number, your e-mail address, your mailing address, and the sizes and quantity of shirts that you want. The way that we are going to distribute the shirts are by mail: once we receive your payment, we will mail your shirt(s) to you. I have picture of the shirt if you would like to view it before you buy it. As always, the Georgia Association of Blind Students appreciates your support. Thanks in advanced. Isaiah Wilcox Phone: 404-291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.c om ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:47:40 -0700 From: Bill Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I was under the impression that employers were required to provide 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that should not effect their desision. Just my two cents, Bill VP Oregon Association of Blind Students 503-768-8982 cassonw at gmail.com On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hey all, > > As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces > others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of > you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > > > > > http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > > I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, > Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:08 -0700 From: Bill Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Hi, I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to explain the legistics. Bill On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:04:54 -0400 From: Hannah G Furney Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" Message-ID: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1 at MAIL6.bgsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are blind. Thanks. Hannah Furney National Federation of the Blind ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:11:55 -0400 From: Dave Webster Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Message-ID: <20090417051155.759.46730 at web3.serotek.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" I use to go to bars and drink all the time. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:37:26 -0600 From: Lora Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 For the time being could you have the officers also be board members? What my state has doneis that we have combined the secretary/treasurer position into one position held by one person which has helped some. On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind > Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other student > division leaders for advice. > > Background: > The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. > The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 > The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of > approx 50,000 > The largest university has less than 10 blind students > The MABS has approx 5 members > The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, treasurer) > and 4 board members > The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. > > I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our > leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally doubt > the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. > > I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our > organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok to > leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I > disagree on both counts. > > In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary > position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know what > I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president to > being a dictator. > > I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have to > say. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:49:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Reed Subject: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California To: NABS mail list Message-ID: <504001.51759.qm at web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hey all, I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be Sacramento, CA.? If you think you might be interested, let me know. Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 From: "Sarah Alawami" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Message-ID: <941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB at sarahd0fffdcf6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 sense worth. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:21:00 -0700 From: "Jacob Struiksma" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What do you want to know about going to bar as blind person? From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hannah G Furney Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:05 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you are blind. Thanks. Hannah Furney National Federation of the Blind _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:22:52 -0700 From: "Jacob Struiksma" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would write my own letter. You are the person taking the class and blind so you know what you need and do not need. From Jacob Struiksma -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:59 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; MnABS listserve; WABS listserv Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:33:41 -0700 From: Haben Girma Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <49E83EE5.4070303 at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Hey Jordan, before I was even sure of attending this college I contacted the DSS office to alert them to what I would need and to ask them how they would go about fulfilling those accommodations. They've used the information I've given them to compose letters to my professors. Each term I always have a talk with professors before and after class because the messages in that letter don't always get through. This semester I plan to introduce my professors to the braille process and our embosser before fall term even begins. That way I hope that things will move smoothly from day one, and not week two. As to your question, it really all depends on the folks at your DSS office. Do you trust them to write a good letter? If you don't, then you should definitely write it yourself and let the DSS office know you'll do that, perhaps just to keep open those friendly communication channels. good luck, Haben Jordan Richardson wrote: > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:29:49 -0400 From: "Jess" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Message-ID: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB at Jessica> Miranda, What pare the United States are you in because they have regionally people that would be put in charge of reach you? Also Terri may not be the right person for you to be contacting. Also if you go to http://www.nabslinks.org you can join Nabs a large with out having to join a state affiliate. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miranda brown" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Member > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to > join > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over > the > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:31:06 -0400 From: Nefertiti Matos Olivares Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <3d644bc30904170431r34e43ca4k68ed30ebb60b0b5c at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Would I ever be interested! Do you have an agenda ready? On 4/17/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hey all, > I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day > camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and > King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come > along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be > Sacramento, CA.? If you think you might be interested, let me know. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:40:40 -0700 From: Len Burns Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <49E86AB8.1050002 at gatamundo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed My own experience is that there is the law, and then the strategic choices you need to make to maximize your chances of being hired. If somebody does not want to hire you, there are dozens of ways to justify this without overtly mentioning blindness. I neither emphasize nor de-emphasize my blindness. It is simply an aspect of who I am in life. I deal with this with potential employers in exactly the same manner. I am matter of fact, and practical. If I need an accommodation in the hiring process, I might choose to discuss my blindness in that context. If not, I manage it in the interview itself. I often ask outright of any concerns held by the interviewers so that I may dispell them in the open. I know that what is not asked is a lot more dangerous to me than what is out on the table. -Len Bill wrote: > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. >> >> >> >> >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp >> >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:56:39 -0400 From: "Jason Mandarino" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Miranda, My first question is regarding where you live. Most states ideally have a student division, but due to the need of student participation and leadership, that is not always the case. If you visit the Student Division main site: www.nabslink.org You will find a link that is labeled State Divisions. This will give you a message about not being completed, but if you keep scrolling you will receive a list of states with the appropriate contact. Now a few states are also being reorganized due to a lack of leadership, or other reasons. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me using the below information. Sincerely, Mandarino Mobile: (706) 399-6993 Email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miranda brown Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:08 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] Member Hi, I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to join the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over the last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone know how I can join the division? Miranda _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:55:56 -0400 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Message-ID: <20090417095556.i7521h6j48oo808o at webmail.utoronto.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Hi Jordan, I think that notifying your professors one way or the other is essential for you to be accommodated. I think your approach should be twofold: have the DSS office write a letter if that is there procedure but also write or phone your professors yourself to tell them specifically what you need. That way they can put a name to a face, you can put a name to a voice, and that knowledge will make it much easier for you to get any help you may need later. If you take the initiative now both parties will feel more comfortable with each other if something comes up. HTH, Sarah Quoting Jordan Richardson : > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:40:25 -0700 From: "Angela fowler" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Science advice To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Message-ID: <28B9112D40E44290A6DDE966F28F2C69 at angelab> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Could you please post these responses on list? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Isaiah Wilcox Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:13 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Science advice Good day ladies and gentlemen. I, along with a colleague, need some feedback from individuals who have taken any science courses. For example, I would like to know what accommodations were made for you, what are some things to be aware of, or what couldn't you do? If you could, e-mail me off of the list, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -- Isaiah Wilcox 830 Westview Dr. SW Morehouse College Unit #140940 Atlanta Ga, 30314 Cell: (404) 291-7791 E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:13:17 -0700 From: "Angela fowler" Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The DSS office is there to help us, not to dictate to us that we follow rules which other students are not subject too. I personally let the DSS office put me in contact with the professors and handle getting the book lists and such, but once I actually meet the professor I deal with them one-on-one as much as possible. If there's a handout I need, I'll ask them to email it. Often the DSS office never sees it. If your DSS office is dictating the way you relate to a professor, they are way out of line. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:52 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 sense worth. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:42:44 -0700 (PDT) From: William ODonnell Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Message-ID: <569123.3166.qm at web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In regard to writing individual letters to professors, in the past, I wrote each professor a standard email introducing me and me also copied the DS office on that email. This kept lines of communication open so misunderstandings were kept to a minimum. Keep coppies of all emails so they can be used as evidence in proving discrimination issues at your college. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 ************************************** **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Apr 17 20:48:45 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:48:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 accomodations letter to professors References: Message-ID: <00fb01c9bf9d$e732b300$0301a8c0@Serene> Way to go, Bridget! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bridgit Pollpeter" To: Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 accomodations letter to professors I do not believe that any student with a disability need make disclosures to their professors beforehand. A student with a disability knows what works and what does not work for them in the classroom environment. Despite what some may think, we are the experts about our disabilities. Should an instructor have any questions for me I am more than willing to answer them. I am also ornery and like the surprise on most professors faces when I show up to the first day of class! Bridgit Pollpeter > From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:00:02 -0500 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. MathDaisy 1.0 Released (Neil Soiffer) > 2. Re: FW: a new type of captcha (T. Joseph Carter) > 3. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Serena) > 4. PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service > (NLSDownload NLSDownload) > 5. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Lora) > 6. Re: GABS Fundraiser (cowboy0210 at gmail.com) > 7. Re: Job seekers- disclosing disability (Bill) > 8. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Bill) > 9. (no subject) (Hannah G Furney) > 10. Re: (no subject) (Dave Webster) > 11. Re: Sustaining a student division in a rural state (Lora) > 12. OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day trip > exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in California > (Jim Reed) > 13. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Sarah Alawami) > 14. Re: (no subject) (Jacob Struiksma) > 15. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Jacob Struiksma) > 16. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Haben Girma) > 17. Re: Member (Jess) > 18. Re: OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a 10ish-day > trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in > California (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) > 19. Re: Job seekers- disclosing disability (Len Burns) > 20. Re: Member (Jason Mandarino) > 21. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors > (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) > 22. Re: Science advice (Angela fowler) > 23. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (Angela fowler) > 24. Re: Accommedations Letter to Professors (William ODonnell) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 01:23:51 -0500 > From: Neil Soiffer (by way of David Andrews > ) > Subject: [nabs-l] MathDaisy 1.0 Released > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Apologies for the commercial nature of this post, but it is something of > interest to many people on the list... > > We at Design Science are happy to announce the release of our newest > product, MathDaisy. Many educational institutions now require teachers, > instructors, and professors to make classroom materials accessible to > students with disabilities. MathDaisy makes it possible to save > Microsoft Word documents containing equations as a DAISY book that can > be read by students on a personal computer or a dedicated eBook reader. > > The press release has been published on our website at > http://www.dessci.com/en/company/press/releases/090413.htm > > Our hope is that MathDaisy together with Word's Save as DAISY makes it > easy > enough to publish DAISY "books" with math in them that anyone can, and > more > importantly, will create accessible material to give to their students, > colleagues, etc. > > Neil Soiffer > Senior Scientist > Design Science, Inc. > www.dessci.com > ~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, WebEQ, Equation > Editor ~ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:00:39 -0700 > From: "T. Joseph Carter" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: a new type of captcha > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <20090416190039.GF29715 at yumi.bluecherry.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > We've had a nice discussion about how people assume that hard for > humans is hard for computers, and that it isn't generally so. We > talked about how the current audio CAPTCHAs are often harder to use > for some of us than getting someone to read the printed ones. > > The creator doesn't really understand the algorithmic aspects of > audio manipulation. I explained what PCM samples are (16 bit signed > numbers representing sound waveform amplitude over time for the nerds > on the list) and that mixing two sounds was just a matter of adding > them together and clipping the waveform if necessary. (You don't > want it to be since that distorts sound.) > > So the developer is open to coming up with an equivalent we can use, > but doesn't really know how to do it. In the meantime, given the > choice between having us unable to use the site and having the site > clogged with spam, however, we lose. > > Joseph > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 06:14:30PM -0400, Liz Bottner wrote: > >Cool. Thanks for posting your findings. I, for one, definitely appreciate > >it. I would be interested to know if they follow up on your response. > > > >Liz > > > >email: > >liz.bottner at gmail.com > >Visit my livejournal: > >http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com? > >Follow me on Twitter: > >http://twitter.com/lizbot > >Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the > >March > >for Independence: > >http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea > >m&fr_id=1050 > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >nabs-l: > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:52 -0400 > From: "Serena" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0 at Serene> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS > listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:50:53 -0500 > From: NLSDownload NLSDownload (by way of David > Andrews ) > Subject: [nabs-l] PLEASE READ] Changes to NLS Download Service > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > To all users of the NLS download pilot service: > > The pilot phase of the NLS downloadable audiobooks and magazines > service will end April 28, 2009. It will be replaced by the permanent > service Braille and Audio Reading Download (BARD), which you will be > able to access at a new web site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, beginning > Thursday, April 30, 2009. > > Users who know their passwords will be able to log on to the new site; > users who rely on their browsers to remember their passwords will need > new ones (follow instructions in Section II). All user accounts will be > migrated to the new system, so you do not need to reapply. All > materials previously downloaded will remain usable, so you will not need > to redownload your reading material. > > This message describes what???s new about BARD and explains what steps > must be taken to access the new site. Please read the entire message > carefully. > > Section I. What???s new about BARD: > > 1. Unlimited downloading. The BARD service will no longer limit the > number of books and magazines that you may download. Any account holder > may download any item at any time. During heavy demand, however, NLS > may limit the number of simultaneous downloads for each account. > > 2. New logon page. The site login will now use a form rather than a > dialog box. It is the same type of logon found on most Internet pages > and should be immediately familiar to users of other sites. This is an > important note for screen-reader users. > > 3. New search functionality. BARD searches will yield more effective > results. The use of multiple search terms will return only results > containing all of the terms. > > 4. New ???Most Popular Books??? list. By selecting the ???Most Popular > Book??? link from the home page, users may access a list of the top > twenty most downloaded books on the BARD service in the last ninety > days. Fiction and nonfiction titles will be listed separately. > > 5. Redesigned magazine section. The ???Recently Added Magazines??? > link will now display links to only the most recent issue of each > magazine. Magazines older than one year may be accessed from each > title???s magazine archive. Links to the archive are at the bottom of > each magazine???s page. > > > Section II. Take the following steps to access the new site: > > 1. You must know your login ID and password to log on to the new site. > For all users, your login ID is your e-mail address. > > 2. If you know your login ID and password, you will not need to do > anything. Simply access the new site, https://nlsbard.loc.gov, starting > Thursday, April 30. > > 3. If you have forgotten your password, you must obtain a new one > before you can log on to the new site. Since the new site has a > different address from the pilot site, you cannot rely on your web > browser to automatically log in to BARD. > > 4. If you do not know your password but you are able to automatically > log on to the pilot site because your browser knows your password, you > must choose a new password. To do so, select the link ???Update My > Settings??? from the site home page. From the settings page, select the > first link, ???Change Your Password.??? Enter your new password twice, > and then select the ???Change Password??? button. Remember this new > password to access BARD. > > 5. If you cannot log on to the site because you do not know your > password, you may have a new one sent to you. Access the password > recovery page at > https://www.nlstalkingbooks.org/cgi-bin/public/dtbscripts_v2/recoverpw.cgi. > Enter your e-mail address and then select the ???Send Me a New > Password??? button. A new temporary password will be generated and sent > to your e-mail address. Once you retrieve the password, log on to the > site and choose your new password. Remember this new password to access > BARD. > > 6. If for some reason you are not able to use any of these options, > please send a request for a new password to NLSDownload at loc.gov. > Because of the anticipated large number of requests, please expect your > new password within two business days. > > The last day of availability of the pilot site will be Tuesday, April > 28. The service will not be available at all on Wednesday, April 29, to > allow user accounts to be migrated to the new site, which will be > available on Thursday, April 30. > > NLS appreciates all who have participated in the pilot test. Your > feedback has allowed us to continuously improve the site and to plan > future expansions, such as the inclusion of braille books. Though the > pilot phase is ending, we remain open to your feedback about the BARD > service. Please send your comments to NLSDownload at loc.gov. Send > questions or requests about the book and magazine collection to your > library. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:01:54 -0600 > From: Lora > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > It is just a formality and legality. I have had problems with professors > who > have gone back on their part of the letter. By having them sign the letter > you have a signature to back you up. > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Serena wrote: > > > Hi Jordan > > > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without > > asking > > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he > > believed > > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > > > Serena > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS > > listserv" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the > > things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i > > had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have > > the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me > > to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do > > the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter > > myself? > > thx, > > > > -- > > Jordan Richardson > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > > --Aristotle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Lora > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:15:59 +0000 > From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: > <1856211733-1239941755-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1223742320- at bxe1064.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Dear Mr. Wilcox, > > Good eveving. How soon will shirts actually be physically available? Is > there a remote possibility Mr. Anil Lewis might be able to bring a couple > next weekend to the Utah State convention? > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Isaiah Wilcox > > Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:32:03 > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] GABS Fundraiser > > > THIS JUST IN! THIS JUST IN! > > The Georgia Association of Blind Students (GABS) is selling some > fabulous T-Shirts for their first fundraiser. A description of the > shirt is as follows: The shirt is of a royal blue color. Printed on > the front of the shirt is the Whoseit logo along with the unique > saying, ?Everyday People Living Life Everyday!? beneath it in an > elegant metallic silver. GABS would like for you to support our first > fundraiser by purchasing a shirt. One shirt, sized small to extra- > large, costs only twelve dollars. And a shirt sized 2X or 3X is just > an additional three dollars. If you would like to purchase a shirt, > please contact me either by e-mail or by phone. Just send me your > name, your telephone number, your e-mail address, your mailing > address, and the sizes and quantity of shirts that you want. The way > that we are going to distribute the shirts are by mail: once we > receive your payment, we will mail your shirt(s) to you. I have > picture of the shirt if you would like to view it before you buy it. > As always, the Georgia Association of Blind Students appreciates your > support. Thanks in advanced. > > > Isaiah Wilcox > Phone: 404-291-7791 > E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:47:40 -0700 > From: Bill > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in > their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would > be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > > Hey all, > > > > As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces > > others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of > > you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > > > > I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana > > Fish, > > Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim > > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:02:08 -0700 > From: Bill > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Hi, > I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think > that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the > person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but > rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see > no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more > likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS > office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the > professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a > letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need > this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to > explain the legistics. > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: > > > Hi Jordan > > > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without > > asking > > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he > > believed > > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > > > Serena > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS > > listserv" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > > > > > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the > > things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i > > had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have > > the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me > > to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do > > the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter > > myself? > > thx, > > > > -- > > Jordan Richardson > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > > --Aristotle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:04:54 -0400 > From: Hannah G Furney > Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" > Message-ID: > <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB2243641A9A8D1 at MAIL6.bgsu.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if > anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you > are blind. Thanks. > > Hannah Furney > National Federation of the Blind > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:11:55 -0400 > From: Dave Webster > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: <20090417051155.759.46730 at web3.serotek.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" > > I use to go to bars and drink all the time. > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:37:26 -0600 > From: Lora > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > For the time being could you have the officers also be board members? What > my state has doneis that we have combined the secretary/treasurer position > into one position held by one person which has helped some. > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > > Hello, > > My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind > > Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other > > student > > division leaders for advice. > > > > Background: > > The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. > > The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 > > The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of > > approx 50,000 > > The largest university has less than 10 blind students > > The MABS has approx 5 members > > The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, > > treasurer) > > and 4 board members > > The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. > > > > I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our > > leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally > > doubt > > the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. > > > > I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our > > organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok > > to > > leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I > > disagree on both counts. > > > > In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary > > position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know > > what > > I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president > > to > > being a dictator. > > > > I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have > > to > > say. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Lora > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:49:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Reed > Subject: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a > 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in > California > To: NABS mail list > Message-ID: <504001.51759.qm at web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hey all, > I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day > camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, and > King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to come > along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be > Sacramento, CA.? If you think you might be interested, let me know. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 > From: "Sarah Alawami" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB at sarahd0fffdcf6> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a > rule > follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists > the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 > sense worth. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Serena > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS > listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:21:00 -0700 > From: "Jacob Struiksma" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] (no subject) > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > What do you want to know about going to bar as blind person? > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Hannah G Furney > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:05 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > > Hi. I just turned 21, and I have a qestion about that. I was wondering if > anyone could give me information on the issue of going to a bar when you > are > blind. Thanks. > > Hannah Furney > National Federation of the Blind > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:22:52 -0700 > From: "Jacob Struiksma" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I would write my own letter. You are the person taking the class and blind > so you know what you need and do not need. > From > Jacob Struiksma > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jordan Richardson > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:59 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; MnABS listserve; > WABS listserv > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai > l.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:33:41 -0700 > From: Haben Girma > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49E83EE5.4070303 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > > Hey Jordan, before I was even sure of attending this college I contacted > the DSS office to alert them to what I would need and to ask them how > they would go about fulfilling those accommodations. They've used the > information I've given them to compose letters to my professors. Each > term I always have a talk with professors before and after class because > the messages in that letter don't always get through. This semester I > plan to introduce my professors to the braille process and our embosser > before fall term even begins. That way I hope that things will move > smoothly from day one, and not week two. > > As to your question, it really all depends on the folks at your DSS > office. Do you trust them to write a good letter? If you don't, then you > should definitely write it yourself and let the DSS office know you'll > do that, perhaps just to keep open those friendly communication channels. > > good luck, > Haben > > Jordan Richardson wrote: > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the > > things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i > > had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have > > the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me > > to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do > > the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter > > myself? > > thx, > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:29:49 -0400 > From: "Jess" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB at Jessica> > > Miranda, > What pare the United States are you in because they have regionally people > that would be put in charge of reach you? Also Terri may not be the right > person for you to be contacting. Also if you go to > http://www.nabslinks.org > you can join Nabs a large with out having to join a state affiliate. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Miranda brown" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Member > > > > Hi, > > > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to > > join > > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over > > the > > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > > know how I can join the division? > > > > Miranda > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:31:06 -0400 > From: Nefertiti Matos Olivares > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OT- Looking for travel compainions to go on a > 10ish-day trip exploreing Yosemetee and Sequoia National Parks in > California > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <3d644bc30904170431r34e43ca4k68ed30ebb60b0b5c at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Would I ever be interested! Do you have an agenda ready? > > On 4/17/09, Jim Reed wrote: > > Hey all, > > I was just kicking around the idea of planning a 10-14 day > > camping/backpacking trip to check out California's Yosemitee, Sequoia, > > and > > King's Canyon National Parks. I am looking for a couple of people to > > come > > along. I was thinking sometime in June. The closest airport would be > > Sacramento, CA.? If you think you might be interested, let me know. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:40:40 -0700 > From: Len Burns > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49E86AB8.1050002 at gatamundo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > My own experience is that there is the law, and then the strategic > choices you need to make to maximize your chances of being hired. If > somebody does not want to hire you, there are dozens of ways to justify > this without overtly mentioning blindness. > > I neither emphasize nor de-emphasize my blindness. It is simply an > aspect of who I am in life. I deal with this with potential employers > in exactly the same manner. I am matter of fact, and practical. If I > need an accommodation in the hiring process, I might choose to discuss > my blindness in that context. If not, I manage it in the interview > itself. I often ask outright of any concerns held by the interviewers > so that I may dispell them in the open. I know that what is not asked > is a lot more dangerous to me than what is out on the table. > > -Len > > Bill wrote: > > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are > > not > > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired > > you. > > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in > > their > > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not > > allow > > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would > > be > > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem > > that > > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details > > that > > should not effect their desision. > > Just my two cents, > > Bill VP > > Oregon Association of Blind Students > > 503-768-8982 > > cassonw at gmail.com > > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > > >> Hey all, > >> > >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces > >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of > >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > >> > >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana > >> Fish, > >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > >> > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Jim > >> > >> > >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:56:39 -0400 > From: "Jason Mandarino" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Miranda, > > My first question is regarding where you live. Most states ideally have a > student division, but due to the need of student participation and > leadership, that is not always the case. > > If you visit the Student Division main site: > www.nabslink.org > You will find a link that is labeled State Divisions. > This will give you a message about not being completed, but if you keep > scrolling you will receive a list of states with the appropriate contact. > > Now a few states are also being reorganized due to a lack of leadership, > or > other reasons. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me > using the below information. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > Mobile: (706) 399-6993 > Email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Miranda brown > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:08 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Member > > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to > join > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over > the > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:55:56 -0400 > From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: <20090417095556.i7521h6j48oo808o at webmail.utoronto.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" > > Hi Jordan, > I think that notifying your professors one way or the other is > essential for you to be accommodated. I think your approach should be > twofold: have the DSS office write a letter if that is there procedure > but also write or phone your professors yourself to tell them > specifically what you need. That way they can put a name to a face, > you can put a name to a voice, and that knowledge will make it much > easier for you to get any help you may need later. If you take the > initiative now both parties will feel more comfortable with each other > if something comes up. > HTH, > Sarah > > > Quoting Jordan Richardson : > > > hi all, > > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the > > things > > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i > > had > > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have > > the > > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me > > to > > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do > > the > > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter > > myself? > > thx, > > > > -- > > Jordan Richardson > > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > > ?What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies? > > --Aristotle > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:40:25 -0700 > From: "Angela fowler" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Science advice > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <28B9112D40E44290A6DDE966F28F2C69 at angelab> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Could you please post these responses on list? > Thanks > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Isaiah Wilcox > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:13 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Science advice > > Good day ladies and gentlemen. > > I, along with a colleague, need some feedback from individuals who have > taken any science courses. For example, I would like to know what > accommodations were made for you, what are some things to be aware of, or > what couldn't you do? If you could, e-mail me off of the list, that would > be greatly appreciated. Thanks > > -- > Isaiah Wilcox > 830 Westview Dr. SW > Morehouse College Unit #140940 > Atlanta Ga, 30314 > > Cell: (404) 291-7791 > E-mail: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:13:17 -0700 > From: "Angela fowler" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > The DSS office is there to help us, not to dictate to us that we follow > rules which other students are not subject too. I personally let the DSS > office put me in contact with the professors and handle getting the book > lists and such, but once I actually meet the professor I deal with them > one-on-one as much as possible. If there's a handout I need, I'll ask them > to email it. Often the DSS office never sees it. If your DSS office is > dictating the way you relate to a professor, they are way out of line. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:52 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a > rule > follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists > the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 > sense worth. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Serena > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your > profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into > class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I > was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking > me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that > time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the > disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed > he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS > listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things > that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had > heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the > DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to > just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the > latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo > n.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:42:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: William ODonnell > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <569123.3166.qm at web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > In regard to writing individual letters to professors, in the past, I > wrote each professor a standard email introducing me and me also copied > the DS office on that email. This kept lines of communication open so > misunderstandings were kept to a minimum. Keep coppies of all emails so > they can be used as evidence in proving discrimination issues at your > college. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 17 > ************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 21:18:48 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:18:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jason, Your are incorrect at this moment in time New York doesn't have active student affiliate at this moment in time. And, I know for a while I know that the state of Utah didn't have an active student division. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member > Miranda, > > My first question is regarding where you live. Most states ideally have a > student division, but due to the need of student participation and > leadership, that is not always the case. > > If you visit the Student Division main site: > www.nabslink.org > You will find a link that is labeled State Divisions. > This will give you a message about not being completed, but if you keep > scrolling you will receive a list of states with the appropriate contact. > > Now a few states are also being reorganized due to a lack of leadership, > or > other reasons. If you have any further questions feel free to contact me > using the below information. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > Mobile: (706) 399-6993 > Email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Miranda brown > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:08 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] Member > > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting to > join > the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of times over > the > last couple of months and and have not heard anything back. Does anyone > know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From dianefilipe at peoplepc.com Fri Apr 17 21:33:10 2009 From: dianefilipe at peoplepc.com (Diane) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:33:10 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] spss In-Reply-To: <818329.75794.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <818329.75794.qm@web65606.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9EDD38F521F14755ACAC415804A00B0E@DianePC> Hi Cindy! I have had to use SPSS for stats and was able to have Disability Services help get me going using just the voice in Zoom Text. I don't think JAWS likes it too much, but I can't tell you for sure! Good LUCK!!!! Di ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Asociation of Blind Students" Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: [nabs-l] spss > > I apologize, but i have to ask this question again. Apparently i > accidentally spammed one of the nabs emails which explains why i haven't > been receiving them for about a month, but anyways, for psych, i have to > take research classes that require the use of spss. I know there has been > some discussion of it on the list, but i was curious about its > accessibility. Is it accessible with jaws, or is there a good alternative? > Thanks > > Cindy Bennett > President: NC Association of Blind Students > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 21:42:59 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 07:42:59 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <569123.3166.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <569123.3166.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, The tradition of submitting disability accommodation request letters to professors, as far as I know, is one that mainly applies to people who have hidden disabilities (i.e. learning disabilities, testing anxiety etc.) where some proof from an authority is needed to confirm that the disability is real. In the case of blindness, when you walk into class with a white cane or guide dog there should be no question as to the legitimacy of your disability and need for reasonable accommodations. I went to a school with a large and relatively custodial DSS office, and even there I was never once asked to submit an accommodation letter to my professors. The DSS insisted on emailing my professors to get the booklist, but even then they didn't use my name, so all the negotiations went on between the professor and myself and the professor took my word for it that I was blind and couldn't read a print test. Generally the only accommodation I requested directly from the professor was to be allowed to take the test on my laptop or Braille Note and send it by email to the professor. I worked with the DSS to obtain my textbooks, so the professor didn't have to be involved in that process other than providing the textbook titles. If you need a specific accommodation and your professor is stubborn about your needing to provide a letter, then I'd say write it yourself and get it signed by DSS if that's absolutely required. But I don't see any need to give them a letter as a matter of course. If you need info about textbooks in advance, just email the profs yourself and say that you are blind and need some information about what textbooks will be used for the course. Then on the first day of class introduce yourself and explain what, if any, accommodations you need to request for testing and such. It's as simple as that and often the DSS will make things seem a lot more complicated or rigid than they actually are. As for following rules, while at times rules are unavoidable, in this case you always have a choice as to whether or not you want to follow the DSS procedures or go your own way. There are plenty of ways to obtain course materials without the DSS and sometimes it can be a trade-off between freedom and convenience. You should never feel obligated to obey the advice of your DSS adviser about anything relating to your college career if you don't want to for any reason. You are the student, and the ultimate expert about what kinds of accommodations you do and don't need to be a successful student. Arielle On 4/18/09, William ODonnell wrote: > > In regard to writing individual letters to professors, in the past, I wrote > each professor a standard email introducing me and me also copied the DS > office on that email. This kept lines of communication open so > misunderstandings were kept to a minimum. Keep coppies of all emails so > they can be used as evidence in proving discrimination issues at your > college. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From amylsabo at comcast.net Fri Apr 17 22:15:13 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:15:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1074097949.2775761240006513698.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello jordan and all, in response to your note on having the dss office write a letter for you or not. as for me at my university it's the policy to have this done. it's called a faculty letter which states that i'm registered with the dss office and these are the accomodiations that i'm using in that class this semester. it's a good way to have it in writing for technical issues. but, i still introduce myself to the professor at the beginning of the semester preferably after class. i tell them who i'am and these are the accomodiations that i will be using in their class. i ask them if they want this for documentation and most appreciate it and most don''t. it just with the person or not. but, is also a contract that if you have any problems with discrimination with the prof than they have it in writing that these are the accomodiations that you are to use and if they don't agree to them they have a written copy for their benefit and also from the dss office. i also email the professor if i know who is teaching the class ahead of time. this is not always the case so i have to wait until the first day of class to do this. if you cannot talk to the professor after class which this does happen on the first day of class i email them as well too! so, it just pertains to the rules that dss office wants you to do and their procedures for it. it's a good thing but, i don't let them take control of my needs i do it myself! so, there's some food for thought on this topic take care all and i will talk to you all soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list , MnABS listserve , WABS listserv Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:58:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 22:39:07 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:39:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <569123.3166.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <569123.3166.qm@web30904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Good idea. I always archive something and kill it when it is at least 6 to 8 months old, especially colledge emails between me and my prof. S -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William ODonnell Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:43 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In regard to writing individual letters to professors, in the past, I wrote each professor a standard email introducing me and me also copied the DS office on that email. This kept lines of communication open so misunderstandings were kept to a minimum. Keep coppies of all emails so they can be used as evidence in proving discrimination issues at your college. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 22:39:07 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:39:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <0A51DB9768E24933A14F3D0869D4CB58@sarahd0fffdcf6> Oh I didn't think of that. I might do tha this semester as I'm going ot a colledge that is not very good at disability and such. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lora Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:02 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors It is just a formality and legality. I have had problems with professors who have gone back on their part of the letter. By having them sign the letter you have a signature to back you up. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Serena wrote: > Hi Jordan > > Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to > your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply > walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted > people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters > for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think > to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, > however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations > letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < > lilrichie411 at gmail.com> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > > hi all, > i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the > things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. > Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it > better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for > revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my > professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? > thx, > > -- > Jordan Richardson > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" > --Aristotle > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40 > verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%4 > 0gmail.com > -- Lora _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From wolvessarah at hotmail.com Fri Apr 17 22:47:11 2009 From: wolvessarah at hotmail.com (sarah baebler) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:47:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state In-Reply-To: <198813.38060.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <198813.38060.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 11:47:11 -0700 > From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state > > Hello, > My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other student division leaders for advice. > > Background: > The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. > The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 > The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of approx 50,000 > The largest university has less than 10 blind students > The MABS has approx 5 members > The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, treasurer) and 4 board members > The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. > > I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally doubt the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. > > I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok to leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. I disagree on both counts. > > In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our secretary position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I dont know what I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from being a president to being a dictator. > > I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents have to say. > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wolvessarah%40hotmail.com From fowlers at syix.com Sat Apr 18 01:21:40 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:21:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <1074097949.2775761240006513698.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1074097949.2775761240006513698.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Amy, just out of curiosity, which university do you attend? I'm asking this because I think its ludicrous for any university to mandate that the DSPS office force any services on a student which the student may not want or need. Obligated to offer? Yes, but the student should always be able to take it or leave it. OK, OK, I'll get off my soap box now. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hello jordan and all, in response to your note on having the dss office write a letter for you or not. as for me at my university it's the policy to have this done. it's called a faculty letter which states that i'm registered with the dss office and these are the accomodiations that i'm using in that class this semester. it's a good way to have it in writing for technical issues. but, i still introduce myself to the professor at the beginning of the semester preferably after class. i tell them who i'am and these are the accomodiations that i will be using in their class. i ask them if they want this for documentation and most appreciate it and most don''t. it just with the person or not. but, is also a contract that if you have any problems with discrimination with the prof than they have it in writing that these are the accomodiations that you are to use and if they don't agree to them they have a written copy for their benefit and also from the dss office. i also email the professor if i know who is teaching the class ahead of time. this is not always the case so i have to wait until the first day of class to do this. if you cannot talk to the professor after class which this does happen on the first day of class i email them as well too! so, it just pertains to the rules that dss office wants you to do and their procedures for it. it's a good thing but, i don't let them take control of my needs i do it myself! so, there's some food for thought on this topic take care all and i will talk to you all soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list , MnABS listserve , WABS listserv Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:58:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 18 03:12:18 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:12:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sustaining a student division in a rural state Message-ID: <20090418031218.3549.53576@web2.serotek.com> Jim, These are all good questions. I have a similar problem in Washington in that our affiliate is mostly comprised of older people who are not students, and our student membership is quite scant and spread out. It does indeed make sense to alter the constitution to apply to your situation. consider having a President, a VP, a Secretary/Treasurer officer, and two board members. That way, you have a little more wiggle room. Also, as much as it can really suck in the short run, you as President may need to make decisions for your entire group to benefit them in the long-run, particularly if your other members seem somewhat unresponsive. Luckily, having a small group means better communication. To bridge the distance, consider conference calling or Skyping. Either option works well. Good luck. Original message: > Hello, > My name is Jim Reed. I am president of the Montana Association of Blind > Students (MABS). I am puting this email out to reach out to other > student division leaders for advice. > Background: > The whole state of Montana has a population of less than 1 million. > The largest city in Montana has approx 100,000 > The two largest universities in the state have a combined enrollment of > approx 50,000 > The largest university has less than 10 blind students > The MABS has approx 5 members > The MABS consitution requires 4 officers (pres, VP, secretary, > treasurer) and 4 board members > The MABS has less total membership than we have officer/board positions. > I am trying to convince our members that we need to restructure our > leadership to reduce the number of people required, as I personally > doubt the MABS will ever have more than 10 members. > I am running into resistance as some members seem to believe that our > organization will grow. One person is making the argument that it is ok > to leave an empty board as the student population is transient anyway. > I disagree on both counts. > In the meantime, we have no board, and we have only filled our > secretary position. With out a board, we are essentially stalled, as I > dont know what I can do indepoendently before I cross the line from > being a president to being a dictator. > I would be curious to hear what some of our other rural [presidents > have to say. > Thanks, > Jim > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 03:29:35 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:29:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <1074097949.2775761240006513698.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1074097949.2775761240006513698.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <220CC3DE2E174023AA58575EE559620E@sarahd0fffdcf6> Yeah but at the LES office I go to at the schools yo are elegible for some accomiditions like a reader scribe and for others you are not. I could not have a note taker in my music theory class wich sucked but we worked around it by calling this person a reader scribe. But Yes I do have the letter written and do show it to my teacher as some have never tought a blind person before. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hello jordan and all, in response to your note on having the dss office write a letter for you or not. as for me at my university it's the policy to have this done. it's called a faculty letter which states that i'm registered with the dss office and these are the accomodiations that i'm using in that class this semester. it's a good way to have it in writing for technical issues. but, i still introduce myself to the professor at the beginning of the semester preferably after class. i tell them who i'am and these are the accomodiations that i will be using in their class. i ask them if they want this for documentation and most appreciate it and most don''t. it just with the person or not. but, is also a contract that if you have any problems with discrimination with the prof than they have it in writing that these are the accomodiations that you are to use and if they don't agree to them they have a written copy for their benefit and also from the dss office. i also email the professor if i know who is teaching the class ahead of time. this is not always the case so i have to wait until the first day of class to do this. if you cannot talk to the professor after class which this does happen on the first day of class i email them as well too! so, it just pertains to the rules that dss office wants you to do and their procedures for it. it's a good thing but, i don't let them take control of my needs i do it myself! so, there's some food for thought on this topic take care all and i will talk to you all soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list , MnABS listserve , WABS listserv Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:58:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 03:29:36 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:29:36 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene><941FB0FC2725405CAB403921452880AB@sarahd0fffdcf6> Message-ID: <04AC1C142CDF41DBAAE329BCF608EE5D@sarahd0fffdcf6> Believe me I tried to have me in contact with proffs and they said that I had to go thorugh tem not go to my proff or I had to make ther request first. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Angela fowler Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:13 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors The DSS office is there to help us, not to dictate to us that we follow rules which other students are not subject too. I personally let the DSS office put me in contact with the professors and handle getting the book lists and such, but once I actually meet the professor I deal with them one-on-one as much as possible. If there's a handout I need, I'll ask them to email it. Often the DSS office never sees it. If your DSS office is dictating the way you relate to a professor, they are way out of line. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:52 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 sense worth. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Hi Jordan Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 18 03:56:12 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:56:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability Message-ID: <20090418035612.5990.70263@web2.serotek.com> Hi. The article provided regards Brittish laws surrounding disability which are a little different from American laws. The ADA does specify that employers cannot ask you about your disabilities at any point in the process. or rather, that they should not. Unfortunately, they often do. Here's my philosophy on disclosure. There are some of us whose blindness will be more obvious depending on the job we're asking to fill, our past experience, and any schools we attended. for example, if you worked at Random City Society for the Blind, and your job experience at RCSB makes you qualified for the job you're applying for, it makes sense to mention it. If you attended Random State School for the Blind and it's relevant to your resume, then mention it. I often add my participation at the Louisiana Center for the Blind for two reasons. first, it points to my educational experiences. Second, it offers a perfect shoe-in to discuss how I'll do the job as a blind person. All this said, it's certainly not a good idea to make blindness the central focus of your resume unless it makes sense to do so such as in cases where you might be applying to fill the post at Random City Society for the Blind. At the interview. I personally don't find it helpful when employers ask how much I can see. I find that the focus moves in a negative direction when this happens. They may be curious, but they're also subconsciously equating sight with ability. I also don't want them to expect me to act as a sighted person when I'm not. I want to make it clear that I am indeed a blind person with some residual vision who uses blindness techniques, not visual ones. i also want to make it clear that my use of blindness techniques will not hamper me. I also personally feel that first meetings are not the appropriate time and place to discuss the inner workings of a medical condition. so, when an employer asks me, "How much can you see?" I have a few responses ready. If the vibe is good, I may ask why they're interested in knowing. Then, I can figure out what their real questions are. A lot of the time, the question is, "How are you going to do X?" so, I tell them how i'll do X. If the vibe is bad, it's probably not going to work out anyway. But, if I'm stuck having to educate, I'll simply say something like "just enough to get me into trouble, but not enough to get me out." Then, I'll launch into a brief explanation about how I'll do the job as a blind person. I have a strong preference for self acommodation where possible. For those of us who use Braille note takers, it's a good idea to pack it along in case you're required to do a writing test. If an internet connection is available, use it to e-mail the perspective boss the writing sample while you're still there. Hopefully, the boss will smile upon this arrangement. This is also a great way to show how you will solve accessibility problems. Also, for those with reading machines, particularly the KNFB Reader Mobile, bring it along since it has internet capability that will let you e-mail word attachments uploaded from your note taker and since it can read print and help you convert anything you may have to read out loud into Braille. If you're good with your technology, this process can be really efficient. If you don't have said technology, then it may prompt you to disclose your disability sooner so you can get appropriate acommodations. Otherwise, it may be useful to list your acommodations in your cover letter in case the employer wants you to do something at the interview. A word on blindness skills. I personally think it's a great idea to know braille in case one has to read out loud (which can happen). I also recommend being comfortable with a cane or guide dog because confident travelers look good to employers. My next bit of advice may be controversial, but I would not recommend taking paratransit to an interview. This arrangement may be just fine when you get the job, but I'd start out with a cab or driver to avoid stereotypes. If weather is poor, I would also recommend a cab or driver if you ordinarily take the bus. That way, you look fresh and nice at the interview. Taking cabs may also reduce personal stress. I don't know about you, but I'm a poor traveler when I experience anxiety (I get distracted), and I'd hate to be late for getting lost. By the way, I also recommend you feel comfortable with cooking and serving if you're getting a job in food service. again, travel skills are helpful. A word on appearances. I would highly recommend brushing your dog well before an interview and/or making sure your cane doesn't look like hell when you show up. Battle scars on canes are great for convention stories, but not for job interviews. Wear the best you have provided that it's appropriate. I personally don't have a problem with piercings and hair dye or tatoos. Unfortunately, others might. It's not a bad idea to scope out the place before sending in an application to see if your personal style is or isn't going to be a problem. I personally think it would suck if you like to wear piercings but can't. I did some research on job applications and interview practices regarding people with disabilities. here are some signs that might reduce your chances of discrimination. first, don't set your heart on jobs that ask about disabilities or health conditions on their applications. Chances are, they're looking at possible insurance issues, and they may mistakingly think that you're a liability. Second, go for small businesses run by people you have some network with; based on my research, don't go for small business owners you don't know or haven't got a network with since they're likely to discriminate and there isn't much you can do about it. The better bet in general is to go for large corperations and institutions with plenty of public accountability. They're less likely to discriminate and will receive public pressure if they do. Naturally, much of this is my own opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree. This has been a product of my experiences thus far. Any additional info would be most welcome. Original message: > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hey all, >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. >> Thanks, >> Jim >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From CDanielsen at nfb.org Sat Apr 18 04:48:24 2009 From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:48:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Los Angeles Festival of Books Message-ID: Dear Fellow Federationists: The Reading Rights Coalition, led by the National Federation of the Blind, is scheduled to participate in the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books. The coalition will have a table set up in one of the festival's exhibit areas so that we may provide the reading and publishing communities with information about our concerns regarding the threatened "turning off" of text-to-speech in books available for Amazon's Kindle 2 electronic reading device. The festival, the largest book fair in the world, will take place on the campus of the University of California at Los Angeles from April 25-26. If you would like to help with our exhibit, please contact Ann-Marie Laney by calling (410) 659-9314, extension 2219, or e-mail her at alaney at nfb.org. Please join us in our continuing efforts to ensure that everyone has access to e-books. From habnkid at aol.com Sat Apr 18 05:51:14 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:51:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987@mail.gmail.com> References: <981627.2481.qm@web65707.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904162147gc65a466y27e2b29c44742987@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49E96A52.1070201@aol.com> I haven't read the article, but I notice that it is based in the UK, so some of their suggestions might not apply to the US where the laws are different. When I was job hunting last year I was in Oregon and applying for jobs in Alaska. Hence all my contact with employers was via email and phone. So there was no reason for me to disclose my disability until I got the job. After one place decided to hire me simply based on my resume, I started discussing accommodations with them. Another place required a phone interview through which I did not disclose my blindness, but I had to reveal my hearing loss since I needed them to use a transcription service. The employers worked for the state of Alaska and were very aware of the ADA and EOE regulations. They hired me. There was also a time where for three weeks I desperately searched for a job, went to millions of interviews, filled out ten times as many applications, but wasn't getting anywhere. It was tourist season and there were plenty of jobs, but for one reason or another they weren't being given to me. Then my boyfriend's mother called up her friend who was director of a summer school that was hiring staff. She explained that I had excellent skills, was great with kids, etc. I had low vision and hearing, yet used lots of techniques to do things. Did the manager think I could do the job, my boyfriend's mother asked. I heard her talking on the phone, and I was mortified. My style of job hunting involved not revealing my disability unless I absolutely had to. After all, it shouldn't even factor into the hiring process, right? Well, I got that job at the summer school, and my boyfriend's mother showed me that disclosing a disability can sometimes truly have little effect on the hiring process, especially when social networking is involved. Haben Bill wrote: > I was under the impression that employers were required to provide > 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not > obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. > the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their > selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to > ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow > for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be > choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical > disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally > disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more > likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the > position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that > an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much > prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that > should not effect their desision. > Just my two cents, > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > > >> Hey all, >> >> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. >> >> >> >> >> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp >> >> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jim >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From habnkid at aol.com Sat Apr 18 05:59:25 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:59:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49E96C3D.5050401@aol.com> I agree Bill, it's really nice to let the DSS do all the work of explaining logistics. It means I get to walk into class and get taught without having the professor visibly contemplate whether I can actually be taught. I read all my textbooks and articles in braille, so it is absolutely important that my professors stay in communication with the DSS office. So, either a letter or an in-office conversation needs to be in place. From talking to people, I've come to the conclusion that it is not common for blind students to exclusively use braille for class handouts and readings; so I'm not describing the typical situation here. best, Haben Bill wrote: > Hi, > I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think > that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the > person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but > rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see > no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more > likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS > office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the > professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a > letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need > this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to > explain the legistics. > Bill > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: > > >> Hi Jordan >> >> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your >> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into >> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I >> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking >> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that >> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the >> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed >> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < >> lilrichie411 at gmail.com> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >> >> >> hi all, >> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things >> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had >> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the >> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to >> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the >> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? >> thx, >> >> -- >> Jordan Richardson >> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >> “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” >> --Aristotle >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sat Apr 18 10:44:14 2009 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:44:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Message-ID: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My professors would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. Before I transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or very little) accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to obtain my books in alternative formats at the beginning of the summer and would receive them in the middle of the semester, long after the class had started. If it was not for my parents acting as readers (these courses were i tv courses and were similar to distance education courses), I would nh passed the class. Although I don't believe my blindness to be a disability, I think reasonable accommodations are essential. A separate introduction to your peers? Not necessary. Books in accessible format? Essential! Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by nature a rule >follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it already lists >the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's just my 2 >sense worth. >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Serena >Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >Hi Jordan >Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your >profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into >class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I >was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking >me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that >time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the >disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed >he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. >Serena >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jordan Richardson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" >Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >hi all, >i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things >that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had >heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the >DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to >just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the >latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? >thx, >-- >Jordan Richardson >lilrichie411 at gmail.com >"What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" >--Aristotle >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc co%40verizo >n.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% 40gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine.edu From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Apr 18 14:05:32 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:05:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <20090418035612.5990.70263@web2.serotek.com> References: <20090418035612.5990.70263@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <20090418100532.8olfga7v0oooco0k@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi Jedi, I really like these suggestions. I'm just confused by what you mean when you say "I also don't want them to expect me to act as a sighted person when I'm not." I'm in the process of looking for a summer job so I'll definitely take your great ideas to heart. Sarah Quoting Jedi : > Hi. > > The article provided regards Brittish laws surrounding disability which > are a little different from American laws. The ADA does specify that > employers cannot ask you about your disabilities at any point in the > process. or rather, that they should not. Unfortunately, they often do. > Here's my philosophy on disclosure. > > There are some of us whose blindness will be more obvious depending on > the job we're asking to fill, our past experience, and any schools we > attended. for example, if you worked at Random City Society for the > Blind, and your job experience at RCSB makes you qualified for the job > you're applying for, it makes sense to mention it. If you attended > Random State School for the Blind and it's relevant to your resume, > then mention it. I often add my participation at the Louisiana Center > for the Blind for two reasons. first, it points to my educational > experiences. Second, it offers a perfect shoe-in to discuss how I'll do > the job as a blind person. All this said, it's certainly not a good > idea to make blindness the central focus of your resume unless it makes > sense to do so such as in cases where you might be applying to fill the > post at Random City Society for the Blind. > > At the interview. I personally don't find it helpful when employers ask > how much I can see. I find that the focus moves in a negative direction > when this happens. They may be curious, but they're also subconsciously > equating sight with ability. I also don't want them to expect me to act > as a sighted person when I'm not. I want to make it clear that I am > indeed a blind person with some residual vision who uses blindness > techniques, not visual ones. i also want to make it clear that my use > of blindness techniques will not hamper me. I also personally feel that > first meetings are not the appropriate time and place to discuss the > inner workings of a medical condition. so, when an employer asks me, > "How much can you see?" I have a few responses ready. If the vibe is > good, I may ask why they're interested in knowing. Then, I can figure > out what their real questions are. A lot of the time, the question is, > "How are you going to do X?" so, I tell them how i'll do X. If the vibe > is bad, it's probably not going to work out anyway. But, if I'm stuck > having to educate, I'll simply say something like "just enough to get > me into trouble, but not enough to get me out." Then, I'll launch into > a brief explanation about how I'll do the job as a blind person. > > I have a strong preference for self acommodation where possible. For > those of us who use Braille note takers, it's a good idea to pack it > along in case you're required to do a writing test. If an internet > connection is available, use it to e-mail the perspective boss the > writing sample while you're still there. Hopefully, the boss will smile > upon this arrangement. This is also a great way to show how you will > solve accessibility problems. Also, for those with reading machines, > particularly the KNFB Reader Mobile, bring it along since it has > internet capability that will let you e-mail word attachments uploaded > from your note taker and since it can read print and help you convert > anything you may have to read out loud into Braille. If you're good > with your technology, this process can be really efficient. If you > don't have said technology, then it may prompt you to disclose your > disability sooner so you can get appropriate acommodations. Otherwise, > it may be useful to list your acommodations in your cover letter in > case the employer wants you to do something at the interview. > > A word on blindness skills. I personally think it's a great idea to > know braille in case one has to read out loud (which can happen). I > also recommend being comfortable with a cane or guide dog because > confident travelers look good to employers. My next bit of advice may > be controversial, but I would not recommend taking paratransit to an > interview. This arrangement may be just fine when you get the job, but > I'd start out with a cab or driver to avoid stereotypes. If weather is > poor, I would also recommend a cab or driver if you ordinarily take the > bus. That way, you look fresh and nice at the interview. Taking cabs > may also reduce personal stress. I don't know about you, but I'm a poor > traveler when I experience anxiety (I get distracted), and I'd hate to > be late for getting lost. By the way, I also recommend you feel > comfortable with cooking and serving if you're getting a job in food > service. again, travel skills are helpful. > > A word on appearances. I would highly recommend brushing your dog well > before an interview and/or making sure your cane doesn't look like hell > when you show up. Battle scars on canes are great for convention > stories, but not for job interviews. Wear the best you have provided > that it's appropriate. I personally don't have a problem with piercings > and hair dye or tatoos. Unfortunately, others might. It's not a bad > idea to scope out the place before sending in an application to see if > your personal style is or isn't going to be a problem. I personally > think it would suck if you like to wear piercings but can't. > > I did some research on job applications and interview practices > regarding people with disabilities. here are some signs that might > reduce your chances of discrimination. first, don't set your heart on > jobs that ask about disabilities or health conditions on their > applications. Chances are, they're looking at possible insurance > issues, and they may mistakingly think that you're a liability. Second, > go for small businesses run by people you have some network with; based > on my research, don't go for small business owners you don't know or > haven't got a network with since they're likely to discriminate and > there isn't much you can do about it. The better bet in general is to > go for large corperations and institutions with plenty of public > accountability. They're less likely to discriminate and will receive > public pressure if they do. > > Naturally, much of this is my own opinion. Feel free to agree or > disagree. This has been a product of my experiences thus far. Any > additional info would be most welcome. > Original message: >> I was under the impression that employers were required to provide >> 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not >> obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. >> the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their >> selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to >> ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow >> for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be >> choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical >> disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally >> disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more >> likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the >> position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that >> an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much >> prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that >> should not effect their desision. >> Just my two cents, >> Bill VP >> Oregon Association of Blind Students >> 503-768-8982 >> cassonw at gmail.com > >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >>> Hey all, > >>> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >>> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >>> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > > > > >>> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > >>> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >>> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > >>> Thanks, > >>> Jim > > >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Apr 18 14:10:56 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:10:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <49E96C3D.5050401@aol.com> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6@mail.gmail.com> <49E96C3D.5050401@aol.com> Message-ID: <20090418101056.gpq7ynci80ws00gk@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi Haben, I'm impressed you get all your stuff in Braille. Is it all on time and everything? That's amazing - that has not at all been the case for me. Quoting Haben Girma : > > I agree Bill, it's really nice to let the DSS do all the work of > explaining logistics. It means I get to walk into class and get taught > without having the professor visibly contemplate whether I can actually > be taught. > > I read all my textbooks and articles in braille, so it is absolutely > important that my professors stay in communication with the DSS office. > So, either a letter or an in-office conversation needs to be in place. > From talking to people, I've come to the conclusion that it is not > common for blind students to exclusively use braille for class handouts > and readings; so I'm not describing the typical situation here. > > best, > Haben > > Bill wrote: >> Hi, >> I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. I think >> that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the >> person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction but >> rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none i see >> no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more >> likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have the DSS >> office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and if the >> professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a >> letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor i need >> this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to >> explain the legistics. >> Bill >> >> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Jordan >>> >>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to your >>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply walk into >>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. When I >>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without asking >>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at that >>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the >>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he believed >>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < >>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS listserv" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>> >>> >>> hi all, >>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things >>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had >>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the >>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to >>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the >>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? >>> thx, >>> >>> -- >>> Jordan Richardson >>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>> “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” >>> --Aristotle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca From len at gatamundo.com Sat Apr 18 16:29:01 2009 From: len at gatamundo.com (Len Burns) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:29:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> References: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> Message-ID: <49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would need none of these services. -Len Hope Paulos wrote: > In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My > professors would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. > Before I transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or very > little) accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to obtain my > books in alternative formats at the beginning of the summer and would > receive them in the middle of the semester, long after the class had > started. If it was not for my parents acting as readers (these courses > were i tv courses and were similar to distance education courses), I > would nh passed the class. Although I don't believe my blindness to be > a disability, I think reasonable accommodations are essential. A > separate introduction to your peers? Not necessary. Books in accessible > format? Essential! > Hope and Beignet > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sarah Alawami" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > >> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by > nature a rule >> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it > already lists >> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's > just my 2 >> sense worth. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Serena >> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > >> Hi Jordan > >> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter > to your >> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply > walk into >> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. > When I >> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, > without asking >> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it > at that >> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested > that the >> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he > believed >> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a > wheelchair. > >> Serena > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jordan Richardson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS > listserv" >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > >> hi all, >> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of > the things >> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. > Now, i had >> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better > to have the >> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or > for me to >> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If > i do the >> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter > myself? >> thx, > >> -- >> Jordan Richardson >> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two > bodies" >> --Aristotle >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc > co%40verizo >> n.net > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% > 40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul > os%40maine.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com From brownbears at mchsi.com Sat Apr 18 16:48:06 2009 From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda brown) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:48:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Member In-Reply-To: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB@Jessica> References: <25627131D12B48C88CFD67DD080074AB@Jessica> Message-ID: <9C90094330B24798940C050222F97CC3@MIRANDA> Thank you I went to the site and registered, I am from Iowa and there is no student division here yet. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jess Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:30 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Member Miranda, What pare the United States are you in because they have regionally people that would be put in charge of reach you? Also Terri may not be the right person for you to be contacting. Also if you go to http://www.nabslinks.org you can join Nabs a large with out having to join a state affiliate. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miranda brown" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:07 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Member > Hi, > > I joined the NABS mailing list a couple of months ago. I was wanting > to join the NABS division and I have tried to email Terri a couple of > times over the last couple of months and and have not heard anything > back. Does anyone know how I can join the division? > > Miranda > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask. > reagan%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brownbears%40mchsi.c om No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.285 / Virus Database: 270.11.59/2063 - Release Date: 04/16/09 16:38:00 From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 17:59:18 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:59:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <007801c9bf95$b12cdef0$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> References: <49E86AB8.1050002@gatamundo.com> <007801c9bf95$b12cdef0$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> Message-ID: <20090418175917.GA80135@yumi.bluecherry.net> As one who has been on both sides of the hiring process, let me pose a scenario: You've just been handed 30 résumés and given the instruction: Choose the three strongest candidates for interview. You discount a few who are under-qualified. A couple look over-qualified and are discounted because they are not likely to remain in the position for long. Now the decision gets tough. You have whittled down the applicants to the best for the job, but there are still about a dozen. You pare it down further by investigating the reputation of their academic institutions and previous employers. Six or seven remain. You think you heard some hesitation when you spoke to references. Now you have four. You have four candidates. You believe that the company could hire any one of them and be assured of a valuable employee. Three of them are going to get calls for interviews. There's just one thing--one of them has a disability, and talks about this in their cover letter. You don't know what effect their disability will have on anything, and thus far you have correctly and properly not even considered it. This person's qualifications speak for themselves that the person can do the job with some form of accommodations. And yet, you just don't know for sure. All that you do know for sure is that this person raised a question in your mind that the law forbids you to ask, and you're not really sure why. I think we know who gets called for the interview, so I won't stretch this out any further. It turns out one of the other three people also had a disability and disclosed at the time she was called for an interview. We hired her because we were convinced that she could do the job and her disability was not a factor. I tend not to disclose anything until the interview itself. There are dangers in this, dangers I have learned of only recently. These I do not know how to articulate in words yet, so I'll leave it at the above scenario for now. Joseph On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:49:59PM -0700, Marianne Haas wrote: >I am blind myself and it depends. I usually disclose before an in terview >since otherwise interviewers are shocked and do not do a good job >interviewing. It is true that some people will find excuses not to >interview me. I would not want to work for someone who will find every >excuse n ot to hire me. > >Marianne From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 18 18:20:02 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disabilities Message-ID: <245011.98535.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, First, I know the email link I provided was from the UK. I sent it because alot of the information was general, it did not pertain specificly to British law. Second, I just had a job interview on thursday. I was applying for a Survey Coordinator position with Montana Fish, WIldlife, and Parks. The survey will be conducted on recreationist on the Madision River in MT. The job involves talking to visitors, collecting data, analyising the data and writing a report. I still have much of my vision, so those task are not problematic. The problem is that the position involves driving to survey sites (the river is 170 miles long). I have recently decided that driving is becoming less and less of a good idea for me. So I had an internal battle as to whether to tell MT FWP, or not. My dad was telling me not to tell them because "your only going to be driving on backroads, theres nothing for you to hit." My voc rehab councelor was telling me to wait until after I was offered a job to disclose. And the President of the Montana state affiliate suggested waiting until the end of the interview. This was the advice I chose to follow. One of the things that made me apply for the job was that I thought I would be supervising two employees, and I thought I would be able to ride out to the river with them. Well, I got triped up in the interview when I was told that MTFWP had not yet decided if they were going to hire those extra people. At that point I didnt know what to do. My plans for using those other two employees as drivers (reasonable accomidation) went out the window. I did not follow the "6 p's" and I paid for it (the 6 P"s are Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). I had no plan for what to do if those other employees wouldnt be avaliable. So, I stuck with my original plan; At the end of the interview, I disclosed the fact that I couldnt drive. They said they appreciated me being honest. Anyhow, the interview was on Thursday, they were supposed to have made a desision on Friday. Today is Saturday, and I still havent heard anything. I hope I didn't disclose myself right out of a job. This really sucks because my goal is to work as a public land manager. I have had enopugh bosses and summer jobs to know that once you reach the full-time permant positions, it is almost all office work. The problem is, in order to get those full-time permant positions, you must first "pay your dues" by working in the field. And almost all field jobs involve driving. I am almost at a point where I am willing to drive inorder to obtain the summer jobs that will lead to full-time work. as the saying goes "get rich or die trying". I am almost willing to "succed or die trying." If only I could insure I wouldnt kill anyone else in the process... Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 18 18:45:34 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Message-ID: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can use them to my advantage. I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: 1. Reasonable accomidations 2. Disability law 3. disclosure stratagies 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. Other employment resources These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their education. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 19:09:41 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:09:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c9c059$3b9fa3b0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I think that is a good idea especially sinse my counselor wants so bad for me to go to work in stead of going back to school wich I am planing on doing even tho they don't like that idea. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If > others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to > use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed > to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind > people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can > use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to > host webinars geared toward > disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies > 5. Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think > such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the > education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities > for students to use their education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 18 19:17:07 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:17:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability Message-ID: <20090418191707.31183.49252@web3.serotek.com> Sarah, In regard to your question about being expected to act as a sighted person, I often find that sighted persons tend to expect me to use vision if they think I have enough of it rather than let me use the techniques that work for me. For example, my mother freaked out when I started wearing dark glasses because she feared they would compromise my already impaired vision. If indeed they do, I doubt there's much of a practical difference in 5.0 percent in my better eye versus 4.99999 percent in the same eye with dark glasses. My step dad didn't want me to use blindness techniques while watching my niece because he felt my low vision was far superior. So he forbad me to wear dark glasses (which I use for light sensativity) and turned up the lights as high as they could go so I could presumably see my niece better. If this were an employment situation, I probably could have sued. As another example, a job agency wanted to introduce me to employers as visually impaired and not blind (since they knew I have some vision) so as to increase my chances of getting hired. The only problem is that the employer might expect me to see more than I can, and I have no desire to educate on that level. So, simply saying that I use blindness techniques gives me a little more control over how I'll do things at any given time. Making such a statement also makes it clear that the amount of vision one has is not directly related to have much a person can do. I think that's why we blind people are often asked about visual acuity in the first place. The more sight you have, the more you can do and the less different from the sighted you are. You know what I mean? Original message: > Hi Jedi, > I really like these suggestions. I'm just confused by what you mean > when you say "I also don't want > them to expect me to act as a sighted person when I'm not." I'm in the > process of looking for a summer job so I'll definitely take your great > ideas to heart. > Sarah > Quoting Jedi : >> Hi. >> The article provided regards Brittish laws surrounding disability which >> are a little different from American laws. The ADA does specify that >> employers cannot ask you about your disabilities at any point in the >> process. or rather, that they should not. Unfortunately, they often do. >> Here's my philosophy on disclosure. >> There are some of us whose blindness will be more obvious depending on >> the job we're asking to fill, our past experience, and any schools we >> attended. for example, if you worked at Random City Society for the >> Blind, and your job experience at RCSB makes you qualified for the job >> you're applying for, it makes sense to mention it. If you attended >> Random State School for the Blind and it's relevant to your resume, >> then mention it. I often add my participation at the Louisiana Center >> for the Blind for two reasons. first, it points to my educational >> experiences. Second, it offers a perfect shoe-in to discuss how I'll do >> the job as a blind person. All this said, it's certainly not a good >> idea to make blindness the central focus of your resume unless it makes >> sense to do so such as in cases where you might be applying to fill the >> post at Random City Society for the Blind. >> At the interview. I personally don't find it helpful when employers ask >> how much I can see. I find that the focus moves in a negative direction >> when this happens. They may be curious, but they're also subconsciously >> equating sight with ability. I also don't want them to expect me to act >> as a sighted person when I'm not. I want to make it clear that I am >> indeed a blind person with some residual vision who uses blindness >> techniques, not visual ones. i also want to make it clear that my use >> of blindness techniques will not hamper me. I also personally feel that >> first meetings are not the appropriate time and place to discuss the >> inner workings of a medical condition. so, when an employer asks me, >> "How much can you see?" I have a few responses ready. If the vibe is >> good, I may ask why they're interested in knowing. Then, I can figure >> out what their real questions are. A lot of the time, the question is, >> "How are you going to do X?" so, I tell them how i'll do X. If the vibe >> is bad, it's probably not going to work out anyway. But, if I'm stuck >> having to educate, I'll simply say something like "just enough to get >> me into trouble, but not enough to get me out." Then, I'll launch into >> a brief explanation about how I'll do the job as a blind person. >> I have a strong preference for self acommodation where possible. For >> those of us who use Braille note takers, it's a good idea to pack it >> along in case you're required to do a writing test. If an internet >> connection is available, use it to e-mail the perspective boss the >> writing sample while you're still there. Hopefully, the boss will smile >> upon this arrangement. This is also a great way to show how you will >> solve accessibility problems. Also, for those with reading machines, >> particularly the KNFB Reader Mobile, bring it along since it has >> internet capability that will let you e-mail word attachments uploaded >> from your note taker and since it can read print and help you convert >> anything you may have to read out loud into Braille. If you're good >> with your technology, this process can be really efficient. If you >> don't have said technology, then it may prompt you to disclose your >> disability sooner so you can get appropriate acommodations. Otherwise, >> it may be useful to list your acommodations in your cover letter in >> case the employer wants you to do something at the interview. >> A word on blindness skills. I personally think it's a great idea to >> know braille in case one has to read out loud (which can happen). I >> also recommend being comfortable with a cane or guide dog because >> confident travelers look good to employers. My next bit of advice may >> be controversial, but I would not recommend taking paratransit to an >> interview. This arrangement may be just fine when you get the job, but >> I'd start out with a cab or driver to avoid stereotypes. If weather is >> poor, I would also recommend a cab or driver if you ordinarily take the >> bus. That way, you look fresh and nice at the interview. Taking cabs >> may also reduce personal stress. I don't know about you, but I'm a poor >> traveler when I experience anxiety (I get distracted), and I'd hate to >> be late for getting lost. By the way, I also recommend you feel >> comfortable with cooking and serving if you're getting a job in food >> service. again, travel skills are helpful. >> A word on appearances. I would highly recommend brushing your dog well >> before an interview and/or making sure your cane doesn't look like hell >> when you show up. Battle scars on canes are great for convention >> stories, but not for job interviews. Wear the best you have provided >> that it's appropriate. I personally don't have a problem with piercings >> and hair dye or tatoos. Unfortunately, others might. It's not a bad >> idea to scope out the place before sending in an application to see if >> your personal style is or isn't going to be a problem. I personally >> think it would suck if you like to wear piercings but can't. >> I did some research on job applications and interview practices >> regarding people with disabilities. here are some signs that might >> reduce your chances of discrimination. first, don't set your heart on >> jobs that ask about disabilities or health conditions on their >> applications. Chances are, they're looking at possible insurance >> issues, and they may mistakingly think that you're a liability. Second, >> go for small businesses run by people you have some network with; based >> on my research, don't go for small business owners you don't know or >> haven't got a network with since they're likely to discriminate and >> there isn't much you can do about it. The better bet in general is to >> go for large corperations and institutions with plenty of public >> accountability. They're less likely to discriminate and will receive >> public pressure if they do. >> Naturally, much of this is my own opinion. Feel free to agree or >> disagree. This has been a product of my experiences thus far. Any >> additional info would be most welcome. >> Original message: >>> I was under the impression that employers were required to provide >>> 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are not >>> obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired you. >>> the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in their >>> selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed to >>> ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not allow >>> for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you would be >>> choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with physical >>> disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally >>> disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more >>> likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the >>> position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem that >>> an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much >>> prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details that >>> should not effect their desision. >>> Just my two cents, >>> Bill VP >>> Oregon Association of Blind Students >>> 503-768-8982 >>> cassonw at gmail.com >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hey all, >>>> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >>>> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >>>> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. >>>> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp >>>> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana Fish, >>>> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jim >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> REspectfully, >> Jedi >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 18 20:09:04 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:09:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disabilities Message-ID: <20090418200904.32515.86694@web3.serotek.com> Jim, For me, it all comes back to self acommodation. Had I been in your shoes, I wouldn't have banked on the extra employees. Instead, i would have figured out how to hire a driver and paid for it using impairment related work expenses from SSI and SSDI benefits. But then again, that's assuming that you're receiving benefits in the first place. See, that's the tricky thing with drivers. Would a driver classify as a reasonable acommodation? Or would it be one of those why hire a blind guy who can't drive when I can hire a sighted girl who can? no sexist language intended. In any case, it's a problematic question that needs answering since so many job descriptions list a driver's license as a requirement for hire. What do you all think? Original message: > Hello, > First, I know the email link I provided was from the UK. I sent it > because alot of the information was general, it did not pertain > specificly to British law. > Second, I just had a job interview on thursday. I was applying for a > Survey Coordinator position with Montana Fish, WIldlife, and Parks. The > survey will be conducted on recreationist on the Madision River in MT. > The job involves talking to visitors, collecting data, analyising the > data and writing a report. > I still have much of my vision, so those task are not problematic. The > problem is that the position involves driving to survey sites (the > river is 170 miles long). I have recently decided that driving is > becoming less and less of a good idea for me. So I had an internal > battle as to whether to tell MT FWP, or not. My dad was telling me not > to tell them because "your only going to be driving on backroads, > theres nothing for you to hit." My voc rehab councelor was telling me > to wait until after I was offered a job to disclose. And the President > of the Montana state affiliate suggested waiting until the end of the > interview. This was the advice I chose to follow. > One of the things that made me apply for the job was that I thought I > would be supervising two employees, and I thought I would be able to > ride out to the river with them. Well, I got triped up in the interview > when I was told that MTFWP had not yet decided if they were going to > hire those extra people. At that point I didnt know what to do. My > plans for using those other two employees as drivers (reasonable > accomidation) went out the window. I did not follow the "6 p's" and I > paid for it (the 6 P"s are Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor > Performance). I had no plan for what to do if those other employees > wouldnt be avaliable. So, I stuck with my original plan; At the end of > the interview, I disclosed the fact that I couldnt drive. They said > they appreciated me being honest. > Anyhow, the interview was on Thursday, they were supposed to have made > a desision on Friday. Today is Saturday, and I still havent heard > anything. I hope I didn't disclose myself right out of a job. > This really sucks because my goal is to work as a public land manager. > I have had enopugh bosses and summer jobs to know that once you reach > the full-time permant positions, it is almost all office work. The > problem is, in order to get those full-time permant positions, you must > first "pay your dues" by working in the field. And almost all field > jobs involve driving. I am almost at a point where I am willing to > drive inorder to obtain the summer jobs that will lead to full-time > work. as the saying goes "get rich or die trying". I am almost willing > to "succed or die trying." If only I could insure I wouldnt kill anyone > else in the process... > Jim > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From amylsabo at comcast.net Sat Apr 18 20:18:47 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:18:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <595375589.2981381240085927883.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello angela, i attend the university of colorado-denver but, i will be transfering in the fall to metro state college to finish up my degree because the university isn''t working out for me academicallyy and financally. as to your note to me i'm the one who told which accomodiations that i needed from the dss office not them telling me which ones that i should use. i'm the one who is in control of my needs not them. the letter is one of their policies for all students who use their office not just blind students have to do this! so, i hope that i was able to answer and also clarify your note. take care and i will talk to you soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Angela fowler To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Sent: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:21:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors Amy, just out of curiosity, which university do you attend? I'm asking this because I think its ludicrous for any university to mandate that the DSPS office force any services on a student which the student may not want or need. Obligated to offer? Yes, but the student should always be able to take it or leave it. OK, OK, I'll get off my soap box now. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hello jordan and all, in response to your note on having the dss office write a letter for you or not. as for me at my university it's the policy to have this done. it's called a faculty letter which states that i'm registered with the dss office and these are the accomodiations that i'm using in that class this semester. it's a good way to have it in writing for technical issues. but, i still introduce myself to the professor at the beginning of the semester preferably after class. i tell them who i'am and these are the accomodiations that i will be using in their class. i ask them if they want this for documentation and most appreciate it and most don''t. it just with the person or not. but, is also a contract that if you have any problems with discrimination with the prof than they have it in writing that these are the accomodiations that you are to use and if they don't agree to them they have a written copy for their benefit and also from the dss office. i also email the professor if i know who is teaching the class ahead of time. this is not always the case so i have to wait until the first day of class to do this. if you cannot talk to the professor after class which this does happen on the first day of class i email them as well too! so, it just pertains to the rules that dss office wants you to do and their procedures for it. it's a good thing but, i don't let them take control of my needs i do it myself! so, there's some food for thought on this topic take care all and i will talk to you all soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jordan Richardson To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list , MnABS listserve , WABS listserv Sent: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 23:58:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors hi all, i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the things that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. Now, i had heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to have the DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for me to just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i do the latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter myself? thx, -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies" --Aristotle _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.n et _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 22:22:25 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:22:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors References: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> <49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> Message-ID: <77FEEFF4E33C44779D0D561C7C91E719@Dezman> Well I guess it depends on your perspective. If most of the world used Braille, needing then print on paper would be an alternative format and thus a special accommodation. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Burns" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would need > none of these services. > > -Len > > Hope Paulos wrote: >> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My professors >> would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. Before I >> transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or very little) >> accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to obtain my books in >> alternative formats at the beginning of the summer and would receive them >> in the middle of the semester, long after the class had started. If it >> was not for my parents acting as readers (these courses were i tv courses >> and were similar to distance education courses), I would nh passed the >> class. Although I don't believe my blindness to be a disability, I think >> reasonable accommodations are essential. A separate introduction to >> your peers? Not necessary. Books in accessible format? Essential! >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sarah Alawami" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >>> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by >> nature a rule >>> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it >> already lists >>> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's >> just my 2 >>> sense worth. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Serena >>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >>> Hi Jordan >> >>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter >> to your >>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >> walk into >>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >> When I >>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, >> without asking >>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it >> at that >>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested >> that the >>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >> believed >>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a >> wheelchair. >> >>> Serena >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jordan Richardson" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >> listserv" >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >> >>> hi all, >>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of >> the things >>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >> Now, i had >>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better >> to have the >>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or >> for me to >>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If >> i do the >>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >> myself? >>> thx, >> >>> -- >>> Jordan Richardson >>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two >> bodies" >>> --Aristotle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizo >>> n.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 22:29:08 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:29:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability References: <20090418191707.31183.49252@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: Jedi, That's exactly right. Someone, I believe it was kenneth Jernigan, called it the hierarchy of sight. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability > Sarah, > > In regard to your question about being expected to act as a sighted > person, I often find that sighted persons tend to expect me to use vision > if they think I have enough of it rather than let me use the techniques > that work for me. For example, my mother freaked out when I started > wearing dark glasses because she feared they would compromise my already > impaired vision. If indeed they do, I doubt there's much of a practical > difference in 5.0 percent in my better eye versus 4.99999 percent in the > same eye with dark glasses. My step dad didn't want me to use blindness > techniques while watching my niece because he felt my low vision was far > superior. So he forbad me to wear dark glasses (which I use for light > sensativity) and turned up the lights as high as they could go so I could > presumably see my niece better. If this were an employment situation, I > probably could have sued. As another example, a job agency wanted to > introduce me to employers as visually impaired and not blind (since they > knew I have some vision) so as to increase my chances of getting hired. > The only problem is that the employer might expect me to see more than I > can, and I have no desire to educate on that level. So, simply saying that > I use blindness techniques gives me a little more control over how I'll do > things at any given time. Making such a statement also makes it clear that > the amount of vision one has is not directly related to have much a person > can do. I think that's why we blind people are often asked about visual > acuity in the first place. The more sight you have, the more you can do > and the less different from the sighted you are. You know what I mean? > Original message: > > >> Hi Jedi, >> I really like these suggestions. I'm just confused by what you mean >> when you say "I also don't want >> them to expect me to act as a sighted person when I'm not." I'm in the >> process of looking for a summer job so I'll definitely take your great >> ideas to heart. >> Sarah >> Quoting Jedi : > >>> Hi. > >>> The article provided regards Brittish laws surrounding disability which >>> are a little different from American laws. The ADA does specify that >>> employers cannot ask you about your disabilities at any point in the >>> process. or rather, that they should not. Unfortunately, they often do. >>> Here's my philosophy on disclosure. > >>> There are some of us whose blindness will be more obvious depending on >>> the job we're asking to fill, our past experience, and any schools we >>> attended. for example, if you worked at Random City Society for the >>> Blind, and your job experience at RCSB makes you qualified for the job >>> you're applying for, it makes sense to mention it. If you attended >>> Random State School for the Blind and it's relevant to your resume, >>> then mention it. I often add my participation at the Louisiana Center >>> for the Blind for two reasons. first, it points to my educational >>> experiences. Second, it offers a perfect shoe-in to discuss how I'll do >>> the job as a blind person. All this said, it's certainly not a good >>> idea to make blindness the central focus of your resume unless it makes >>> sense to do so such as in cases where you might be applying to fill the >>> post at Random City Society for the Blind. > >>> At the interview. I personally don't find it helpful when employers ask >>> how much I can see. I find that the focus moves in a negative direction >>> when this happens. They may be curious, but they're also subconsciously >>> equating sight with ability. I also don't want them to expect me to act >>> as a sighted person when I'm not. I want to make it clear that I am >>> indeed a blind person with some residual vision who uses blindness >>> techniques, not visual ones. i also want to make it clear that my use >>> of blindness techniques will not hamper me. I also personally feel that >>> first meetings are not the appropriate time and place to discuss the >>> inner workings of a medical condition. so, when an employer asks me, >>> "How much can you see?" I have a few responses ready. If the vibe is >>> good, I may ask why they're interested in knowing. Then, I can figure >>> out what their real questions are. A lot of the time, the question is, >>> "How are you going to do X?" so, I tell them how i'll do X. If the vibe >>> is bad, it's probably not going to work out anyway. But, if I'm stuck >>> having to educate, I'll simply say something like "just enough to get >>> me into trouble, but not enough to get me out." Then, I'll launch into >>> a brief explanation about how I'll do the job as a blind person. > >>> I have a strong preference for self acommodation where possible. For >>> those of us who use Braille note takers, it's a good idea to pack it >>> along in case you're required to do a writing test. If an internet >>> connection is available, use it to e-mail the perspective boss the >>> writing sample while you're still there. Hopefully, the boss will smile >>> upon this arrangement. This is also a great way to show how you will >>> solve accessibility problems. Also, for those with reading machines, >>> particularly the KNFB Reader Mobile, bring it along since it has >>> internet capability that will let you e-mail word attachments uploaded >>> from your note taker and since it can read print and help you convert >>> anything you may have to read out loud into Braille. If you're good >>> with your technology, this process can be really efficient. If you >>> don't have said technology, then it may prompt you to disclose your >>> disability sooner so you can get appropriate acommodations. Otherwise, >>> it may be useful to list your acommodations in your cover letter in >>> case the employer wants you to do something at the interview. > >>> A word on blindness skills. I personally think it's a great idea to >>> know braille in case one has to read out loud (which can happen). I >>> also recommend being comfortable with a cane or guide dog because >>> confident travelers look good to employers. My next bit of advice may >>> be controversial, but I would not recommend taking paratransit to an >>> interview. This arrangement may be just fine when you get the job, but >>> I'd start out with a cab or driver to avoid stereotypes. If weather is >>> poor, I would also recommend a cab or driver if you ordinarily take the >>> bus. That way, you look fresh and nice at the interview. Taking cabs >>> may also reduce personal stress. I don't know about you, but I'm a poor >>> traveler when I experience anxiety (I get distracted), and I'd hate to >>> be late for getting lost. By the way, I also recommend you feel >>> comfortable with cooking and serving if you're getting a job in food >>> service. again, travel skills are helpful. > >>> A word on appearances. I would highly recommend brushing your dog well >>> before an interview and/or making sure your cane doesn't look like hell >>> when you show up. Battle scars on canes are great for convention >>> stories, but not for job interviews. Wear the best you have provided >>> that it's appropriate. I personally don't have a problem with piercings >>> and hair dye or tatoos. Unfortunately, others might. It's not a bad >>> idea to scope out the place before sending in an application to see if >>> your personal style is or isn't going to be a problem. I personally >>> think it would suck if you like to wear piercings but can't. > >>> I did some research on job applications and interview practices >>> regarding people with disabilities. here are some signs that might >>> reduce your chances of discrimination. first, don't set your heart on >>> jobs that ask about disabilities or health conditions on their >>> applications. Chances are, they're looking at possible insurance >>> issues, and they may mistakingly think that you're a liability. Second, >>> go for small businesses run by people you have some network with; based >>> on my research, don't go for small business owners you don't know or >>> haven't got a network with since they're likely to discriminate and >>> there isn't much you can do about it. The better bet in general is to >>> go for large corperations and institutions with plenty of public >>> accountability. They're less likely to discriminate and will receive >>> public pressure if they do. > >>> Naturally, much of this is my own opinion. Feel free to agree or >>> disagree. This has been a product of my experiences thus far. Any >>> additional info would be most welcome. >>> Original message: >>>> I was under the impression that employers were required to provide >>>> 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they are >>>> not >>>> obligated if they did not know about your disability when they hired >>>> you. >>>> the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all in >>>> their >>>> selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even allowed >>>> to >>>> ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to not >>>> allow >>>> for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you >>>> would be >>>> choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with >>>> physical >>>> disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other potentionally >>>> disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be more >>>> likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill the >>>> position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would seem >>>> that >>>> an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much >>>> prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not details >>>> that >>>> should not effect their desision. >>>> Just my two cents, >>>> Bill VP >>>> Oregon Association of Blind Students >>>> 503-768-8982 >>>> cassonw at gmail.com > >>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >>>>> Hey all, > >>>>> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy forces >>>>> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to some of >>>>> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an employer. > > > > >>>>> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp > >>>>> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with Montana >>>>> Fish, >>>>> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Jim > > >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>> -- >>> REspectfully, >>> Jedi > >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Sat Apr 18 22:29:36 2009 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:29:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors References: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> <49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> Message-ID: <3ED33EF6327543A7B5123D20323C9B4F@Hope> Dear Len- You're absolutely correct. Perhaps I should have phrased it better . I don't consider my blindness to be a disability in that I don't let it stop me from doing what I want to do. I agree with you that we need accommodations. That's why I posted about the bad experience with not getting books on time. No offense taken! Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Burns" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would need > none of these services. > > -Len > > Hope Paulos wrote: >> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My professors >> would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. Before I >> transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or very little) >> accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to obtain my books in >> alternative formats at the beginning of the summer and would receive them >> in the middle of the semester, long after the class had started. If it >> was not for my parents acting as readers (these courses were i tv courses >> and were similar to distance education courses), I would nh passed the >> class. Although I don't believe my blindness to be a disability, I think >> reasonable accommodations are essential. A separate introduction to >> your peers? Not necessary. Books in accessible format? Essential! >> Hope and Beignet >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Sarah Alawami" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >>> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by >> nature a rule >>> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it >> already lists >>> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's >> just my 2 >>> sense worth. >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>> Of Serena >>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >>> Hi Jordan >> >>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter >> to your >>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >> walk into >>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >> When I >>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, >> without asking >>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it >> at that >>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested >> that the >>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >> believed >>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a >> wheelchair. >> >>> Serena >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jordan Richardson" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >> listserv" >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >> >>> hi all, >>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of >> the things >>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >> Now, i had >>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better >> to have the >>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or >> for me to >>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If >> i do the >>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >> myself? >>> thx, >> >>> -- >>> Jordan Richardson >>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two >> bodies" >>> --Aristotle >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >> co%40verizo >>> n.net >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >> os%40maine.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu From minesm at me.com Sat Apr 18 22:40:09 2009 From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:40:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hi in this time of tite money within nabs i think as well who will pay for the webenars? I don't know much about what nabs lettership is think about but in the nfb I have alwase herd if you think of a idea you shud atlest a part of duing it. just my two bites have a good one. On Apr 18, 2009, at 12:45 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. > If others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for > the NABS to use some of its resources putting together a series of > Webinairs designed to teach us the most effective ways of getting > and holding jobs as blind people. I don't know about you guys, but I > really don't know anything about how the EOE, ADA, or other > disability laws apply to me, or how I can use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and > advocates to host webinars geared toward > disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could > be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies > 5. Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I > think such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it > furthers the education of its student members, and it promotes > vocational oppertunities for students to use their education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm > %40me.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Apr 18 22:44:15 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 17:44:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <000501c9c059$3b9fa3b0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <00e101c9c077$8e1127e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, If you attend the 2009 National Convention there will be an all-day employment workshop hosted by one of the top job placement trainers in the country and a great lady. See you in Detroit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? I think that is a good idea especially sinse my counselor wants so bad for me to go to work in stead of going back to school wich I am planing on doing even tho they don't like that idea. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If > others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to > use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed > to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind > people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can > use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to > host webinars geared toward > disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies > 5. Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think > such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the > education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities > for students to use their education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From habnkid at aol.com Sun Apr 19 02:31:26 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:31:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <20090418191707.31183.49252@web3.serotek.com> References: <20090418191707.31183.49252@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: <49EA8CFE.4000308@aol.com> Jedi, I love your explanation. I had to laugh when you mentioned wanting to sue your family for discrimination. The family can be such a powerful entity at times... We're combatting the old proverb "Treat others the way you'd want to be treated." Nope, equality doesn't work that way. Haben Jedi wrote: > Sarah, > > In regard to your question about being expected to act as a sighted > person, I often find that sighted persons tend to expect me to use > vision if they think I have enough of it rather than let me use the > techniques that work for me. For example, my mother freaked out when I > started wearing dark glasses because she feared they would compromise > my already impaired vision. If indeed they do, I doubt there's much of > a practical difference in 5.0 percent in my better eye versus 4.99999 > percent in the same eye with dark glasses. My step dad didn't want me > to use blindness techniques while watching my niece because he felt my > low vision was far superior. So he forbad me to wear dark glasses > (which I use for light sensativity) and turned up the lights as high > as they could go so I could presumably see my niece better. If this > were an employment situation, I probably could have sued. As another > example, a job agency wanted to introduce me to employers as visually > impaired and not blind (since they knew I have some vision) so as to > increase my chances of getting hired. The only problem is that the > employer might expect me to see more than I can, and I have no desire > to educate on that level. So, simply saying that I use blindness > techniques gives me a little more control over how I'll do things at > any given time. Making such a statement also makes it clear that the > amount of vision one has is not directly related to have much a person > can do. I think that's why we blind people are often asked about > visual acuity in the first place. The more sight you have, the more > you can do and the less different from the sighted you are. You know > what I mean? > Original message: > > >> Hi Jedi, >> I really like these suggestions. I'm just confused by what you mean >> when you say "I also don't want >> them to expect me to act as a sighted person when I'm not." I'm in the >> process of looking for a summer job so I'll definitely take your great >> ideas to heart. >> Sarah >> Quoting Jedi : > >>> Hi. > >>> The article provided regards Brittish laws surrounding disability which >>> are a little different from American laws. The ADA does specify that >>> employers cannot ask you about your disabilities at any point in the >>> process. or rather, that they should not. Unfortunately, they often do. >>> Here's my philosophy on disclosure. > >>> There are some of us whose blindness will be more obvious depending on >>> the job we're asking to fill, our past experience, and any schools we >>> attended. for example, if you worked at Random City Society for the >>> Blind, and your job experience at RCSB makes you qualified for the job >>> you're applying for, it makes sense to mention it. If you attended >>> Random State School for the Blind and it's relevant to your resume, >>> then mention it. I often add my participation at the Louisiana Center >>> for the Blind for two reasons. first, it points to my educational >>> experiences. Second, it offers a perfect shoe-in to discuss how I'll do >>> the job as a blind person. All this said, it's certainly not a good >>> idea to make blindness the central focus of your resume unless it makes >>> sense to do so such as in cases where you might be applying to fill the >>> post at Random City Society for the Blind. > >>> At the interview. I personally don't find it helpful when employers ask >>> how much I can see. I find that the focus moves in a negative direction >>> when this happens. They may be curious, but they're also subconsciously >>> equating sight with ability. I also don't want them to expect me to act >>> as a sighted person when I'm not. I want to make it clear that I am >>> indeed a blind person with some residual vision who uses blindness >>> techniques, not visual ones. i also want to make it clear that my use >>> of blindness techniques will not hamper me. I also personally feel that >>> first meetings are not the appropriate time and place to discuss the >>> inner workings of a medical condition. so, when an employer asks me, >>> "How much can you see?" I have a few responses ready. If the vibe is >>> good, I may ask why they're interested in knowing. Then, I can figure >>> out what their real questions are. A lot of the time, the question is, >>> "How are you going to do X?" so, I tell them how i'll do X. If the vibe >>> is bad, it's probably not going to work out anyway. But, if I'm stuck >>> having to educate, I'll simply say something like "just enough to get >>> me into trouble, but not enough to get me out." Then, I'll launch into >>> a brief explanation about how I'll do the job as a blind person. > >>> I have a strong preference for self acommodation where possible. For >>> those of us who use Braille note takers, it's a good idea to pack it >>> along in case you're required to do a writing test. If an internet >>> connection is available, use it to e-mail the perspective boss the >>> writing sample while you're still there. Hopefully, the boss will smile >>> upon this arrangement. This is also a great way to show how you will >>> solve accessibility problems. Also, for those with reading machines, >>> particularly the KNFB Reader Mobile, bring it along since it has >>> internet capability that will let you e-mail word attachments uploaded >>> from your note taker and since it can read print and help you convert >>> anything you may have to read out loud into Braille. If you're good >>> with your technology, this process can be really efficient. If you >>> don't have said technology, then it may prompt you to disclose your >>> disability sooner so you can get appropriate acommodations. Otherwise, >>> it may be useful to list your acommodations in your cover letter in >>> case the employer wants you to do something at the interview. > >>> A word on blindness skills. I personally think it's a great idea to >>> know braille in case one has to read out loud (which can happen). I >>> also recommend being comfortable with a cane or guide dog because >>> confident travelers look good to employers. My next bit of advice may >>> be controversial, but I would not recommend taking paratransit to an >>> interview. This arrangement may be just fine when you get the job, but >>> I'd start out with a cab or driver to avoid stereotypes. If weather is >>> poor, I would also recommend a cab or driver if you ordinarily take the >>> bus. That way, you look fresh and nice at the interview. Taking cabs >>> may also reduce personal stress. I don't know about you, but I'm a poor >>> traveler when I experience anxiety (I get distracted), and I'd hate to >>> be late for getting lost. By the way, I also recommend you feel >>> comfortable with cooking and serving if you're getting a job in food >>> service. again, travel skills are helpful. > >>> A word on appearances. I would highly recommend brushing your dog well >>> before an interview and/or making sure your cane doesn't look like hell >>> when you show up. Battle scars on canes are great for convention >>> stories, but not for job interviews. Wear the best you have provided >>> that it's appropriate. I personally don't have a problem with piercings >>> and hair dye or tatoos. Unfortunately, others might. It's not a bad >>> idea to scope out the place before sending in an application to see if >>> your personal style is or isn't going to be a problem. I personally >>> think it would suck if you like to wear piercings but can't. > >>> I did some research on job applications and interview practices >>> regarding people with disabilities. here are some signs that might >>> reduce your chances of discrimination. first, don't set your heart on >>> jobs that ask about disabilities or health conditions on their >>> applications. Chances are, they're looking at possible insurance >>> issues, and they may mistakingly think that you're a liability. Second, >>> go for small businesses run by people you have some network with; based >>> on my research, don't go for small business owners you don't know or >>> haven't got a network with since they're likely to discriminate and >>> there isn't much you can do about it. The better bet in general is to >>> go for large corperations and institutions with plenty of public >>> accountability. They're less likely to discriminate and will receive >>> public pressure if they do. > >>> Naturally, much of this is my own opinion. Feel free to agree or >>> disagree. This has been a product of my experiences thus far. Any >>> additional info would be most welcome. >>> Original message: >>>> I was under the impression that employers were required to provide >>>> 'reasonable' accomidations. This article seems to imply that they >>>> are not >>>> obligated if they did not know about your disability when they >>>> hired you. >>>> the law does not allow for employers to use your disibility at all >>>> in their >>>> selection process. In OR i believe that employers aren't even >>>> allowed to >>>> ask about disabilities. I imagine that one can extend the law to >>>> not allow >>>> for preference to be given to disabled applicants either since you >>>> would be >>>> choosing on non-relevant baseies. Unfortunatly those of us with >>>> physical >>>> disabilities have less choice about disclosure then other >>>> potentionally >>>> disabled applicants. Joseph has said to me that employers will be >>>> more >>>> likely to hire you if they can see how you would be able to forfill >>>> the >>>> position. Convincing the employer of this can be hard. It would >>>> seem that >>>> an interview would be a good place to discuss this, but you would much >>>> prefer that the interview focused on your own skills and not >>>> details that >>>> should not effect their desision. >>>> Just my two cents, >>>> Bill VP >>>> Oregon Association of Blind Students >>>> 503-768-8982 >>>> cassonw at gmail.com > >>>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >>>>> Hey all, > >>>>> As the summer-job seeking season is upon us, and as the economy >>>>> forces >>>>> others out of work, I thought the following would be useful to >>>>> some of >>>>> you. It deals with how/when to disclose your blindness to an >>>>> employer. > > > > >>>>> http://www.rnib.org.uk/xpedio/groups/public/documents/PublicWebsite/public_jsdisc.hcsp >>>>> > >>>>> I Hope some find it useful. I have an interview tomarrow with >>>>> Montana Fish, >>>>> Wildlife, and Parks. I guess I will see how it works then. > > > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Jim > > >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> > >>> -- >>> REspectfully, >>> Jedi > >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >>> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > From habnkid at aol.com Sun Apr 19 02:38:39 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:38:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Job seekers- disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <20090418175917.GA80135@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <49E86AB8.1050002@gatamundo.com> <007801c9bf95$b12cdef0$2101a8c0@vusd.solanocoe.k12.ca.us> <20090418175917.GA80135@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <49EA8EAF.9090606@aol.com> Joseph, you end with such a dramatic tone! Thanks for sharing that scenario. Disclosing one's disability in the early stages of the hiring process raises a question, as you said, and because of the ADA employers will not always feel safe to honestly ask the questions on their mind. Someone said earlier that the unasked questions are the most harmful. On top of that, it can be tricky to anticipate the questions, to read the hiring manager's mind to figure out what questions might be floating around in their. Yes, you set the tone quite nicely. /smile/ Haben T. Joseph Carter wrote: > As one who has been on both sides of the hiring process, let me pose a > scenario: > > You've just been handed 30 résumés and given the instruction: Choose > the three strongest candidates for interview. You discount a few who > are under-qualified. A couple look over-qualified and are discounted > because they are not likely to remain in the position for long. > > Now the decision gets tough. You have whittled down the applicants to > the best for the job, but there are still about a dozen. You pare it > down further by investigating the reputation of their academic > institutions and previous employers. Six or seven remain. You think > you heard some hesitation when you spoke to references. Now you have > four. > > You have four candidates. You believe that the company could hire any > one of them and be assured of a valuable employee. Three of them are > going to get calls for interviews. There's just one thing--one of > them has a disability, and talks about this in their cover letter. > You don't know what effect their disability will have on anything, and > thus far you have correctly and properly not even considered it. This > person's qualifications speak for themselves that the person can do > the job with some form of accommodations. > > And yet, you just don't know for sure. All that you do know for sure > is that this person raised a question in your mind that the law > forbids you to ask, and you're not really sure why. > > I think we know who gets called for the interview, so I won't stretch > this out any further. It turns out one of the other three people also > had a disability and disclosed at the time she was called for an > interview. We hired her because we were convinced that she could do > the job and her disability was not a factor. > > I tend not to disclose anything until the interview itself. There are > dangers in this, dangers I have learned of only recently. These I do > not know how to articulate in words yet, so I'll leave it at the above > scenario for now. > > Joseph > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 12:49:59PM -0700, Marianne Haas wrote: >> I am blind myself and it depends. I usually disclose before an in >> terview >> since otherwise interviewers are shocked and do not do a good job >> interviewing. It is true that some people will find excuses not to >> interview me. I would not want to work for someone who will find every >> excuse n ot to hire me. >> >> Marianne > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com From habnkid at aol.com Sun Apr 19 02:51:28 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:51:28 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disabilities In-Reply-To: <245011.98535.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <245011.98535.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49EA91B0.5010008@aol.com> Hey Jim, do you have a cousin or sibling with a driver's license who could be your driver in exchange for some other favor, which could be money? As to Jedi's interesting point...If the blind guy already has a driver and the driver is not an expense to the company, then hiring a sighted driver is almost an equivalent. Haben Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > First, I know the email link I provided was from the UK. I sent it because alot of the information was general, it did not pertain specificly to British law. > > Second, I just had a job interview on thursday. I was applying for a Survey Coordinator position with Montana Fish, WIldlife, and Parks. The survey will be conducted on recreationist on the Madision River in MT. The job involves talking to visitors, collecting data, analyising the data and writing a report. > > I still have much of my vision, so those task are not problematic. The problem is that the position involves driving to survey sites (the river is 170 miles long). I have recently decided that driving is becoming less and less of a good idea for me. So I had an internal battle as to whether to tell MT FWP, or not. My dad was telling me not to tell them because "your only going to be driving on backroads, theres nothing for you to hit." My voc rehab councelor was telling me to wait until after I was offered a job to disclose. And the President of the Montana state affiliate suggested waiting until the end of the interview. This was the advice I chose to follow. > > One of the things that made me apply for the job was that I thought I would be supervising two employees, and I thought I would be able to ride out to the river with them. Well, I got triped up in the interview when I was told that MTFWP had not yet decided if they were going to hire those extra people. At that point I didnt know what to do. My plans for using those other two employees as drivers (reasonable accomidation) went out the window. I did not follow the "6 p's" and I paid for it (the 6 P"s are Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). I had no plan for what to do if those other employees wouldnt be avaliable. So, I stuck with my original plan; At the end of the interview, I disclosed the fact that I couldnt drive. They said they appreciated me being honest. > > Anyhow, the interview was on Thursday, they were supposed to have made a desision on Friday. Today is Saturday, and I still havent heard anything. I hope I didn't disclose myself right out of a job. > > This really sucks because my goal is to work as a public land manager. I have had enopugh bosses and summer jobs to know that once you reach the full-time permant positions, it is almost all office work. The problem is, in order to get those full-time permant positions, you must first "pay your dues" by working in the field. And almost all field jobs involve driving. I am almost at a point where I am willing to drive inorder to obtain the summer jobs that will lead to full-time work. as the saying goes "get rich or die trying". I am almost willing to "succed or die trying." If only I could insure I wouldnt kill anyone else in the process... > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From passionflower505 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 19 02:57:42 2009 From: passionflower505 at yahoo.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] test Message-ID: <307576.87892.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> For some reason, i am receiving some threads from the nabs list but not others, especially messages sent by myself, so sorry to clog the list, but i am just trying to figure out what is going on. Thanks Cindy Bennett President: NC Association of Blind Students From habnkid at aol.com Sun Apr 19 03:06:10 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:06:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille in Class In-Reply-To: <20090418101056.gpq7ynci80ws00gk@webmail.utoronto.ca> References: <004101c9bf00$9e101890$0301a8c0@Serene> <26d2dfeb0904162202l738797b4sd1fbb897dc7eb2e6@mail.gmail.com> <49E96C3D.5050401@aol.com> <20090418101056.gpq7ynci80ws00gk@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <49EA9522.8000703@aol.com> Hi Sarah, Braille is on time 80% of the time. Most of my professors have been great about handing me a braille copy of handouts in class at the same time they hand out the print copy to other students. Some professors have suggested that I just pick up the braille copy at the DSS office, but I just argue that I can't respect an assignment if the professor doesn't give it to me herself. I have to read the braille copy in class when everyone else is reading it and talking about it. Some professors have required several lectures from me about equal access and the true spirit of academics, and that usually gets them to email handouts and readings ahead of time to the DSS. The woman at the DSS who does the brailling does not read braille, but she's learned to work with Duxbury and the embosser amazingly well. Sarah, what's your experience been with braille? sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca wrote: > Hi Haben, > I'm impressed you get all your stuff in Braille. Is it all on time and > everything? That's amazing - that has not at all been the case for me. > > Quoting Haben Girma : > >> >> I agree Bill, it's really nice to let the DSS do all the work of >> explaining logistics. It means I get to walk into class and get taught >> without having the professor visibly contemplate whether I can actually >> be taught. >> >> I read all my textbooks and articles in braille, so it is absolutely >> important that my professors stay in communication with the DSS office. >> So, either a letter or an in-office conversation needs to be in place. >> From talking to people, I've come to the conclusion that it is not >> common for blind students to exclusively use braille for class handouts >> and readings; so I'm not describing the typical situation here. >> >> best, >> Haben >> >> Bill wrote: >>> Hi, >>> I think there is a significant likely difference in the two cases. >>> I think >>> that being a blind person you probably have more accomidations then the >>> person in the wheel chair. Here the letters are not of introduction >>> but >>> rather of the accomidations you require. Obviously if you have none >>> i see >>> no reason to bother with the letter. I think the letters make it more >>> likely that professors will cooperate with requests when they have >>> the DSS >>> office tell them they need to do something. You might just chat and >>> if the >>> professor is being unaccomidating, ask the DSS person to send them a >>> letter. I personally like the letters so when i tell the professor >>> i need >>> this, they already know how it is supposed to work and i don't have to >>> explain the legistics. >>> Bill >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:02 PM, Serena >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi Jordan >>>> >>>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter to >>>> your >>>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >>>> walk into >>>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >>>> When I >>>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, without >>>> asking >>>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it at >>>> that >>>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested that the >>>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >>>> believed >>>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a wheelchair. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jordan Richardson" < >>>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >>>> listserv" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> hi all, >>>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of the >>>> things >>>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >>>> Now, i had >>>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better to >>>> have the >>>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or for >>>> me to >>>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If i >>>> do the >>>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >>>> myself? >>>> thx, >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jordan Richardson >>>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>>> “What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two bodies” >>>> --Aristotle >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com From cassonw at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 04:50:59 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:50:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] test In-Reply-To: <307576.87892.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <307576.87892.qm@web65615.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904182150l5bf08ea9gae6bd8ebf79ccd8e@mail.gmail.com> you can configure whether you get your own messages sent to you in your settings which can be accessed by following the link at the bottum of any list email. As for other messages, some might get filtered as spam, others just take their sweet time ariving, as discussed before, sometimes i get the reply before even receiving the initial email. Bill On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote: > > For some reason, i am receiving some threads from the nabs list but not > others, especially messages sent by myself, so sorry to clog the list, but i > am just trying to figure out what is going on. > Thanks > Cindy Bennett > President: NC Association of Blind Students > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From len at gatamundo.com Sun Apr 19 06:46:23 2009 From: len at gatamundo.com (Len Burns) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:46:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <77FEEFF4E33C44779D0D561C7C91E719@Dezman> References: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> <49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> <77FEEFF4E33C44779D0D561C7C91E719@Dezman> Message-ID: <49EAC8BF.7000201@gatamundo.com> Agreed, as long as we are discussing this in terms of special accommodations." When you invoke the term "reasonable accommodation," you are invoking the protection of the ADA. To qualify for protection under the ADA one must have a qualifying disability. I for my part have no issue describing myself as a person with a disability. I do not find that this description in any way diminishes me. It is simply a fact of life, I do not have eyeballs. -Len Dezman Jackson wrote: > Well I guess it depends on your perspective. If most of the world used > Braille, needing then print on paper would be an alternative format and > thus a special accommodation. > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Burns" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 11:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > >> At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would >> need none of these services. >> >> -Len >> >> Hope Paulos wrote: >>> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My >>> professors would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. >>> Before I transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or >>> very little) accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to >>> obtain my books in alternative formats at the beginning of the summer >>> and would receive them in the middle of the semester, long after the >>> class had started. If it was not for my parents acting as readers >>> (these courses were i tv courses and were similar to distance >>> education courses), I would nh passed the class. Although I don't >>> believe my blindness to be a disability, I think reasonable >>> accommodations are essential. A separate introduction to your peers? >>> Not necessary. Books in accessible format? Essential! >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sarah Alawami" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>>> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by >>> nature a rule >>>> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it >>> already lists >>>> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's >>> just my 2 >>>> sense worth. >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>> Of Serena >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>>> Hi Jordan >>> >>>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter >>> to your >>>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >>> walk into >>>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >>> When I >>>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, >>> without asking >>>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it >>> at that >>>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested >>> that the >>>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >>> believed >>>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a >>> wheelchair. >>> >>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jordan Richardson" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >>> listserv" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>> >>>> hi all, >>>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of >>> the things >>>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >>> Now, i had >>>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better >>> to have the >>>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or >>> for me to >>>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If >>> i do the >>>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >>> myself? >>>> thx, >>> >>>> -- >>>> Jordan Richardson >>>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>>> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two >>> bodies" >>>> --Aristotle >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizo >>>> n.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com From len at gatamundo.com Sun Apr 19 06:51:45 2009 From: len at gatamundo.com (Len Burns) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:51:45 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <3ED33EF6327543A7B5123D20323C9B4F@Hope> References: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com> <49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> <3ED33EF6327543A7B5123D20323C9B4F@Hope> Message-ID: <49EACA01.4060704@gatamundo.com> Hope, I completely agree with the below. My blindness is a disability, but it is not the organizing factor of my life, much as others try to make this so at times. -L Hope Paulos wrote: > Dear Len- You're absolutely correct. Perhaps I should have phrased it > better . I don't consider my blindness to be a disability in > that I don't let it stop me from doing what I want to do. I agree with > you that we need accommodations. That's why I posted about the bad > experience with not getting books on time. > No offense taken! > > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Burns" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > >> At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would >> need none of these services. >> >> -Len >> >> Hope Paulos wrote: >>> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My >>> professors would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. >>> Before I transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or >>> very little) accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to >>> obtain my books in alternative formats at the beginning of the summer >>> and would receive them in the middle of the semester, long after the >>> class had started. If it was not for my parents acting as readers >>> (these courses were i tv courses and were similar to distance >>> education courses), I would nh passed the class. Although I don't >>> believe my blindness to be a disability, I think reasonable >>> accommodations are essential. A separate introduction to your peers? >>> Not necessary. Books in accessible format? Essential! >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sarah Alawami" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>>> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by >>> nature a rule >>>> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it >>> already lists >>>> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's >>> just my 2 >>>> sense worth. >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>> Of Serena >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>>> Hi Jordan >>> >>>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter >>> to your >>>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >>> walk into >>>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >>> When I >>>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, >>> without asking >>>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it >>> at that >>>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested >>> that the >>>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >>> believed >>>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a >>> wheelchair. >>> >>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jordan Richardson" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >>> listserv" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>> >>>> hi all, >>>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of >>> the things >>>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >>> Now, i had >>>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better >>> to have the >>>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or >>> for me to >>>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If >>> i do the >>>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >>> myself? >>>> thx, >>> >>>> -- >>>> Jordan Richardson >>>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>>> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two >>> bodies" >>>> --Aristotle >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizo >>>> n.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 19 07:38:46 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity Message-ID: <669934.45437.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey guys, I suggest the NABS sponsor a disc golf (folf) outing at the national convention. The Proffessional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) holds its World Championships in Kalamazoo, MI., aproxamatly 2 hours from Detroit (to host a world championship, its gotta be a nice course(s)). Also, I'm sure there are courses in the greater Detroit area. If you all are interested, I know where to look to try to track down the local disc golf clubs (Detroit and/or Kalamazoo). Let me know, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 09:56:44 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 04:56:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Take A Trip Around The World On TOnight's Djd Invasion Message-ID: Attention All Lovers Of Culture And Travel!!! This Djd Invasion Show Is For You!!! At last, the long-awaited, highly anticipated Around The World in 180 Minutes show is going to air tonight on ACB Radio Interactive at 6 PM central time (7 PM eastern time) up until 9 PM central (10 PM eastern). This means that each song will feature a tune either in a different language, a song that combines different languages, or a song with a title in a different language than English. And with all of these songs, you'll gain some interesting knowledge about the tunes too. For instance, Find out why a Peruvian play from 1913 landed Paul Simon in court Learn how a Catholic church crusader brought about a #1 song from 1963 And learn about one of the most popular tourist sites in Paris And more!!! All of this, plus your requests by email/msn messenger at the address request at acbradio.org by aol instant messenger at the address djdrocks or when I'm not playing songs, you can give me a call by dialing 1-516-874-5071 or by skyping me at thedjdinvasion to be connected with me live on the air! This adventure around the world, which will even include stops in Japan and Africa, should keep you interested and entertained for three hours, so to listen, save this email, and at 6 PM central or any time over the following three hours from that time, go to http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen/listen.html to be connected to the program! I hope to see you all there! Best regards, David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion http://www.thedjdinvasion.com From liamskitten at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 10:04:13 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 05:04:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <00e101c9c077$8e1127e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <000501c9c059$3b9fa3b0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <00e101c9c077$8e1127e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <7949e5e20904190304q4be64d72h913932984b950d56@mail.gmail.com> Jim, That's an excellent idea. I don't know what strategies could be developed to obtain funds for this sort of activity. However, with a seventy percent unemployment rate in the blindness community, this is definitely a set of topics which should be addressed. Unlike convention, which everyone can not attend, web seminars would be accessible to a much wider range of our membership. Courtney On 4/18/09, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > If you attend the 2009 National Convention there will be an all-day > employment workshop hosted by one of the top job placement trainers in the > country and a great lady. See you in Detroit. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > > I think that is a good idea especially sinse my counselor wants so bad for > me to go to work in stead of going back to school wich I am planing on > doing even tho they don't like that idea. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Reed" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:45 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > >> Hello, >> I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If >> others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to >> use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed >> to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind >> people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything >> about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can >> use them to my advantage. >> >> I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to >> host webinars geared toward >> disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: >> 1. Reasonable accomidations >> 2. Disability law >> 3. disclosure stratagies >> 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies >> 5. Other employment resources >> >> These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think >> such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the >> education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities >> for students to use their education. >> >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 10:55:03 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 06:55:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <3ED33EF6327543A7B5123D20323C9B4F@Hope> References: <20090418104222072.GSOY14673.hrndva-omta04.mail.rr.com><49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> <3ED33EF6327543A7B5123D20323C9B4F@Hope> Message-ID: <6F0692105DB24ECE91639A760533FF00@Jessica> Hope and all, Hudson Valley Community College the most recent college I've attended. The way the Disability Resource Center handled that was they done actually physically write a letter but instead they fill out a form and check off what accommodations you as the student think that you are going to need. and it is up to you as the student to make sure your professors get the sheet.. Then what I personally do is I send sent an email to each one of my professors introducing myself.And, I also sent some information to each one of the about my visual impairment just to educate them a bit about my visual impairment. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > Dear Len- You're absolutely correct. Perhaps I should have phrased it > better . I don't consider my blindness to be a disability in that > I don't let it stop me from doing what I want to do. I agree with you that > we need accommodations. That's why I posted about the bad experience with > not getting books on time. > No offense taken! > > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Len Burns" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > >> At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would need >> none of these services. >> >> -Len >> >> Hope Paulos wrote: >>> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My >>> professors would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. >>> Before I transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or very >>> little) accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to obtain my >>> books in alternative formats at the beginning of the summer and would >>> receive them in the middle of the semester, long after the class had >>> started. If it was not for my parents acting as readers (these courses >>> were i tv courses and were similar to distance education courses), I >>> would nh passed the class. Although I don't believe my blindness to be >>> a disability, I think reasonable accommodations are essential. A >>> separate introduction to your peers? Not necessary. Books in accessible >>> format? Essential! >>> Hope and Beignet >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Sarah Alawami" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>>> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by >>> nature a rule >>>> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it >>> already lists >>>> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's >>> just my 2 >>>> sense worth. >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>> Of Serena >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>>> Hi Jordan >>> >>>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter >>> to your >>>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >>> walk into >>>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >>> When I >>>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, >>> without asking >>>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it >>> at that >>>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested >>> that the >>>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >>> believed >>>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a >>> wheelchair. >>> >>>> Serena >>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jordan Richardson" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >>> listserv" >>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>> >>> >>>> hi all, >>>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of >>> the things >>>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >>> Now, i had >>>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better >>> to have the >>>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or >>> for me to >>>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If >>> i do the >>>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >>> myself? >>>> thx, >>> >>>> -- >>>> Jordan Richardson >>>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>>> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two >>> bodies" >>>> --Aristotle >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>> co%40verizo >>>> n.net >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>> os%40maine.edu >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Sun Apr 19 12:16:00 2009 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 08:16:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity In-Reply-To: <669934.45437.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <669934.45437.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, what is disc golf and how do you play disc golf? How do you keep track of the score in disc golf? Albert > Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:38:46 -0700 > From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity > > Hey guys, > I suggest the NABS sponsor a disc golf (folf) outing at the national convention. The Proffessional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) holds its World Championships in Kalamazoo, MI., aproxamatly 2 hours from Detroit (to host a world championship, its gotta be a nice course(s)). Also, I'm sure there are courses in the greater Detroit area. If you all are interested, I know where to look to try to track down the local disc golf clubs (Detroit and/or Kalamazoo). > > Let me know, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 From qmsingleton at comcast.net Sun Apr 19 18:25:21 2009 From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:25:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NAGDU on Thruoureyes Message-ID: The next "Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo" live internet radio show is scheduled for Wednesday April 22, 2009 at 8:00 PM EST. Mr. Ruffalo will be interviewing National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU) president, Marion Gwizdala. NAGDU's current initiatives and legislative issues related to service animals are some of the topics that will be discussed on the evening's program. I invite you to visit www.thruoureyes.org or to hear the program live via telephone dial 201 793 9022 with the access code: 2400484. To phone in live during the show to ask a question use: 1 888 572 0141 Thruoureyes is also pleased to announce the new Thruoureyes JAWS page. This page lists scheduled shows for the month, topics, and listen/download capability. the link is: www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 19 19:16:07 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 14:16:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><000501c9c059$3b9fa3b0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><00e101c9c077$8e1127e0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <7949e5e20904190304q4be64d72h913932984b950d56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008e01c9c123$4b5b4aa0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good afternoon everyone, There will be such an employment seminar during our national convention in Detroit. Plan to be there. Buna Dahal who is an employment specialist and motivation speaker will host the workshop. Learn more about Buna and her work by visiting: http://www.dynamicbuna.com You can get further information about the employment seminar by reading the April 2009 Braille Monitor. See you in Detroit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:04 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Jim, That's an excellent idea. I don't know what strategies could be developed to obtain funds for this sort of activity. However, with a seventy percent unemployment rate in the blindness community, this is definitely a set of topics which should be addressed. Unlike convention, which everyone can not attend, web seminars would be accessible to a much wider range of our membership. Courtney On 4/18/09, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > If you attend the 2009 National Convention there will be an all-day > employment workshop hosted by one of the top job placement trainers in the > country and a great lady. See you in Detroit. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rania" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:09 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > > I think that is a good idea especially sinse my counselor wants so bad for > me to go to work in stead of going back to school wich I am planing on > doing even tho they don't like that idea. > Rania, > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Reed" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:45 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > >> Hello, >> I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If >> others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS >> to >> use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed >> to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind >> people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything >> about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I >> can >> use them to my advantage. >> >> I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to >> host webinars geared toward >> disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: >> 1. Reasonable accomidations >> 2. Disability law >> 3. disclosure stratagies >> 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies >> 5. Other employment resources >> >> These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think >> such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the >> education of its student members, and it promotes vocational >> oppertunities >> for students to use their education. >> >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From bcsarah.fan at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 20:14:16 2009 From: bcsarah.fan at gmail.com (Patricia) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 13:14:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] job seekers disclosing their disability Message-ID: <66C28408909C4C66BC893E8DF9B3A5CB@Athena> Hi all: Really like this topic. I can't speak from much, but based on the little experience I do have I can see both sides of the coin, as it were. My first thought when applying for a job was not to disclose my disability until the interview. As Serena had mentionedre: accommodations, just walk in with my cane and then have the interviewer have no choice but to deal with me at that point. Because even in just other experiences I know that seeing a visible disability hinders some people. I remembered once applying for a job at City Hall and when i walked in and gave my resume they said that the position had already been filled, and I'm pretty sure that was because they didn't know how to deal nor want to deal with blindness as a factor to employment with them. With the summer job I currently have (this will be my third summer working for them) I had to disclose my disability as it was on the application form. In that way when they chose me to have an interview they knew immediately that I was blind and asked me what accommodations I would need. I think they were still unsure about me when I came to the interview, but then I could prove myself with my intelligence and knowledge, and that's what I think made them decide to ultimately hire me. That and the fact that it was the Federal Government, and the manager said that "we need to put our money where our mouth is." And they keep hiring me back. In fact, a week after I was hired in my first year i was told that providing things don't change too drastically I would be inployed until I graduate. Wehn I have my next job interview I think I will continue with the same philosophy and see where it takes me, though keeping in mind the value of disclosing ahead of time in certain cases. I really think it's a case by case thing, and I need to make the best judgements at the time. Just my two cents worth to the thread. Patricia From troubleclark at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 20:41:52 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:41:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors In-Reply-To: <6F0692105DB24ECE91639A760533FF00@Jessica> References: <49E9FFCD.7010208@gatamundo.com> <3ED33EF6327543A7B5123D20323C9B4F@Hope> <6F0692105DB24ECE91639A760533FF00@Jessica> Message-ID: Well blindness is a disabioity under the law. On 4/19/09, Jess wrote: > Hope and all, > Hudson Valley Community College the most recent college I've attended. > The way the Disability Resource Center handled that was they done actually > physically write a letter but instead they fill out a form and check off > what accommodations you as the student think that you are going to need. > and it is up to you as the student to make sure your professors get the > sheet.. Then what I personally do is I send sent an email to each one of my > professors introducing myself.And, I also sent some information to each one > of the about my visual impairment just to educate them a bit about my visual > impairment. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 6:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors > > >> Dear Len- You're absolutely correct. Perhaps I should have phrased it >> better . I don't consider my blindness to be a disability in that >> >> I don't let it stop me from doing what I want to do. I agree with you that >> >> we need accommodations. That's why I posted about the bad experience with >> not getting books on time. >> No offense taken! >> >> Hope and Beignet >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Len Burns" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >> >> >>> At risk of offending, If blindness is not a disability, one would need >>> none of these services. >>> >>> -Len >>> >>> Hope Paulos wrote: >>>> In my case the Dss office wrote the accommodation letters. My >>>> professors would then contactme to seeif I needed anything extra. >>>> Before I transfered to the college I attend now, I received no (or very >>>> little) accommodation. In fact, I'd contact the dss office to obtain my >>>> >>>> books in alternative formats at the beginning of the summer and would >>>> receive them in the middle of the semester, long after the class had >>>> started. If it was not for my parents acting as readers (these courses >>>> were i tv courses and were similar to distance education courses), I >>>> would nh passed the class. Although I don't believe my blindness to be >>>> a disability, I think reasonable accommodations are essential. A >>>> separate introduction to your peers? Not necessary. Books in accessible >>>> >>>> format? Essential! >>>> Hope and Beignet >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Sarah Alawami" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Date sent: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:51:35 -0700 >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>>> >>>>> I have to follow the rules of the disability office . I am by >>>> nature a rule >>>>> follower pluss it makes things a little easier for me as it >>>> already lists >>>>> the accomadations I am elegable for for that school. But that's >>>> just my 2 >>>>> sense worth. >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >>>>> Of Serena >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 7:03 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>>> >>>>> Hi Jordan >>>> >>>>> Do you really think you or the DSS Office has to write a letter >>>> to your >>>>> profs. in the first place? Blind people have a right to simply >>>> walk into >>>>> class, without any special explanation, just like sighted people. >>>> When I >>>>> was in college, the disability person wrote letters for me, >>>> without asking >>>>> me if I wanted her to. I guess, I didn't think to say no to it >>>> at that >>>>> time. My wheelchair using friend Anthony, however, requested >>>> that the >>>>> disability person not write accommodations letters for him cuz he >>>> believed >>>>> he didn't need any special introduction just cuz he uses a >>>> wheelchair. >>>> >>>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jordan Richardson" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> ; "MnABS listserve" ; "WABS >>>> listserv" >>>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 7:58 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accommedations Letter to Professors >>>> >>>> >>>>> hi all, >>>>> i just talked to the person at the DSS office today and one of >>>> the things >>>>> that we talked was the accommedations letter to the professors. >>>> Now, i had >>>>> heard about this through Jeff Thompson and MnABS. Is it better >>>> to have the >>>>> DSS office write the letter and send it to me for revisions, or >>>> for me to >>>>> just write the letter and to send it to my professors myself. If >>>> i do the >>>>> latter, should i tell the DSS office that i will write the letter >>>> myself? >>>>> thx, >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jordan Richardson >>>>> lilrichie411 at gmail.com >>>>> "What is a friend? A friend is a single soul dwelling in two >>>> bodies" >>>>> --Aristotle >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacuc >>>> co%40verizo >>>>> n.net >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul >>>> os%40maine.edu >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/len%40gatamundo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From m.barber at mchsi.com Sun Apr 19 21:57:11 2009 From: m.barber at mchsi.com (Michael D. Barber) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:57:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Iowa Pocket Pledge Message-ID: Iowa Pocket Pledge How many of us have memorized the NFB Pledge? How many of us still stumble through the pledge? Oh, don't raise your hands. I am pleased to announce that the National Federation of the Blind of Iowa will have available at our affiliate table at the NFB convention in Detroit a small plastic card, developed by our own Sarah Cranston, containing the NFB Pledge. Because we are celebrating the 200th anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille, and because we are totally committed to the Braille literacy program of the National Federation of the Blind, the pledge appears in Braille and can be carried in your pocket, your purse, your note taker case, or wherever you like. Oh, and did I say they are free? The pledge cards are free and can be picked up at our table in the Exhibit Hall. Oh, and while you're at our table, please avail yourselves of the opportunity to pick up one or several pairs of our famous Iowa stainless-steel folding scissors, which are $5 a pair. You always need a pair of good scissors, and they make excellent stocking-stuffers at Christmas time. See you in Detroit. Oh, and don't forget to register for the March For Independence. I've already raised $700. Cordially, Michael D. Barber, president National Federation of the Blind of Iowa m.barber at mchsi.com (515) 771-8348 From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 20 00:36:11 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability Message-ID: <234436.23351.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, I asked my VR councelor about SSDI/SSI disability related work expense and the PASS program. He told me I did not qualify to apply for either of those programs until I was already working. Here is an area of SSI lawe that can and should be fixed. In my case, the job I interviewed for pays $10/hour. I would not make any money if I have to pay a driver out of pocket, theirfore, I could not commit ahead of time to hiring a driver Yet I am unable to pursue the disability expenses or PASS until I have a job. Kind of a cath-22. A program that could help us get a job can't be applied for until we already have a job. This is especially relevant to college students with their annual summer job searches. "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net Mon Apr 20 01:33:03 2009 From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:33:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] test Message-ID: <20090420013136.PTTR882.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote> Cindy, I think there's a setting on the website for that. Not sure what it is, but that's what I've heard. > ----- Original Message ----- >From: Cindy Bennett To: National Asociation of Blind Students Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:57:42 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: [nabs-l] test >For some reason, i am receiving some threads from the nabs list but not others, especially messages sent by myself, so sorry to clog the list, but i am just trying to figure out what is going on. >Thanks >Cindy Bennett >President: NC Association of Blind Students >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli cious%40suddenlink.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Mon Apr 20 01:59:00 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 21:59:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability References: <234436.23351.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003701c9c15b$932d6420$0301a8c0@Serene> Hi Jim You don't actually have to wait to apply for SSI until you're working, only till you're 18. I don't know anything about SSDI, but SSI and SSDI are different. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: ; "NABS mail list" Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability > Hello, > > I asked my VR councelor about SSDI/SSI disability related work expense and > the PASS program. He told me I did not qualify to apply for either of > those programs until I was already working. > > Here is an area of SSI lawe that can and should be fixed. > > In my case, the job I interviewed for pays $10/hour. I would not make any > money if I have to pay a driver out of pocket, theirfore, I could not > commit ahead of time to hiring a driver Yet I am unable to pursue the > disability expenses or PASS until I have a job. Kind of a cath-22. A > program that could help us get a job can't be applied for until we already > have a job. This is especially relevant to college students with their > annual summer job searches. > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 03:26:54 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:26:54 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <003701c9c15b$932d6420$0301a8c0@Serene> References: <234436.23351.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <003701c9c15b$932d6420$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: Hi Jim, First, you can apply for SSI without a job, as Serena mentioned. Do you think there's any possibility of getting a voucher for a driver through your voc rehab counselor, especially if this is a temporary job designed to train you for higher levels of work? Since VR often pays for readers for school, I would think this might be justifiable along similar lines. When you are full-time employed the employer should pay for a driver as a reasonable accommodation, but for summer and other temporary jobs, it's much harder to negotiate this. I think since this is an important step on the ladder toward getting a full-time job at which the employer will be able to provide a driver, or driving might not even be necessary, you should at least investigate the idea of getting driver funding through VR. Arielle On 4/20/09, Serena wrote: > Hi Jim > > You don't actually have to wait to apply for SSI until you're working, only > till you're 18. I don't know anything about SSDI, but SSI and SSDI are > different. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Reed" > To: ; "NABS mail list" > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:36 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability > > >> Hello, >> >> I asked my VR councelor about SSDI/SSI disability related work expense and >> >> the PASS program. He told me I did not qualify to apply for either of >> those programs until I was already working. >> >> Here is an area of SSI lawe that can and should be fixed. >> >> In my case, the job I interviewed for pays $10/hour. I would not make any >> money if I have to pay a driver out of pocket, theirfore, I could not >> commit ahead of time to hiring a driver Yet I am unable to pursue the >> disability expenses or PASS until I have a job. Kind of a cath-22. A >> program that could help us get a job can't be applied for until we already >> >> have a job. This is especially relevant to college students with their >> annual summer job searches. >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 08:07:20 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 01:07:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <008e01c9c123$4b5b4aa0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <7949e5e20904190304q4be64d72h913932984b950d56@mail.gmail.com> <008e01c9c123$4b5b4aa0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <20090420080720.GF80135@yumi.bluecherry.net> Dynamic is an excellent description of Buna. *grin* I may be able to attend the seminar--I haven't looked too closely at my other obligations that day yet. I've had enough "fun" preparing for my Master's defense in just a few short weeks! I was lucky enough, should I be unable to attend, to have attended many of Buna's seminars at the Colorado Center for the Blind while I was there. I don't know how she's managed to fit even part of what I learned from her in eight months into a single session seminar, but I can certainly recommend it to my fellow nabsters. Few have Buna's skill, and fewer still have her dedication. If you're getting ready to enter the workforce, what she has to say might just change your life. Joseph On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 02:16:07PM -0500, Peter Donahue wrote: >Good afternoon everyone, > > There will be such an employment seminar during our national convention >in Detroit. Plan to be there. Buna Dahal who is an employment specialist and >motivation speaker will host the workshop. Learn more about Buna and her >work by visiting: >http://www.dynamicbuna.com > > You can get further information about the employment seminar by reading >the April 2009 Braille Monitor. See you in Detroit. > >Peter Donahue From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 10:06:02 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 06:06:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability In-Reply-To: <234436.23351.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <234436.23351.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, I if were you would double check with SSA about the PASS plan because that's a program that run. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: ; "NABS mail list" Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disability > Hello, > > I asked my VR councelor about SSDI/SSI disability related work expense and > the PASS program. He told me I did not qualify to apply for either of > those programs until I was already working. > > Here is an area of SSI lawe that can and should be fixed. > > In my case, the job I interviewed for pays $10/hour. I would not make any > money if I have to pay a driver out of pocket, theirfore, I could not > commit ahead of time to hiring a driver Yet I am unable to pursue the > disability expenses or PASS until I have a job. Kind of a cath-22. A > program that could help us get a job can't be applied for until we already > have a job. This is especially relevant to college students with their > annual summer job searches. > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 20 17:17:56 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] $12-15/ hour doing national park trail restoration Message-ID: <711296.28773.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> The attachment is for national park trail restoration positions paying 12-15 bucks an hour "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Mike Patterson wrote: From: Mike Patterson Subject: [RECNET] FW: Job Announcement To: RECNET at LISTS.UMT.EDU Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 8:45 AM From: Laurie Yung Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:21 PM To: Mike Patterson Subject: Job Announcement Importance: High   Please forward to RecNet.  Thanks!   ******************************** Laurie Yung Director, Wilderness Institute College of Forestry and Conservation University of Montana Missoula , MT 59812 (406) 243-6934 *********************************   -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Job Announcement - Trails for Learning.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 150353 bytes Desc: Job Announcement - Trails for Learning.pdf URL: From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 20 18:01:11 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? Message-ID: <697611.74634.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? My alma mater host such a list and it is an extrodinar success. Essentially it is like any other email list, except in this case, students and other job seekers subscribe to the list and then perspective employers post job/internship asnnouncements. It seems that there are enough entrapenurers, managers, and governemt workers within the NFB that such a list could become a success. Its a win-win, the employer gets free advertising for his/her job openings, and students get the benifit of having job announcements delivered right to their email boxes. Just an idea Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From liz.bottner at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 18:31:27 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:31:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? In-Reply-To: <697611.74634.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <697611.74634.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49ecbf2d.0610c00a.303b.0ba3@mx.google.com> Hi, There is the NFB jobs list serve. It can be found at: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs_nfbnet.org Take care, and I hope this helps. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 20 19:42:01 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:42:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Message-ID: <692925.83428.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, Many peole keep mentioning that there will be an employment seminar at the national convention. They seem to be missing the point of a web seminar. Not all (do I dare say most?) blind people will be unable to go to the national convention due to schedule conflicts, family commitments, financial issues, or they simply have no interest in going to Detroit in mid-summer.  I'm sure a web seminar would run counter to the NFB's stratagy of offering the employment seminar as an attraction drawing people to the national convention; to that I say "so what?". What a web seminar would do is provide everyone access to the necisary information; not just those who can afford to attend the convention.  Unfourtunatly, I have no skills or knowledge in disability law, nor do I have any knowledge on how to put on a web seminar. Hopefully someone with more knowledge or experience within these realms will take this idea and run with it. I would be willing to help, but I'm afraid I would be of little use. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From liamskitten at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 19:57:57 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:57:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? In-Reply-To: <697611.74634.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <697611.74634.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7949e5e20904201257t5d095eefh1af635c91cc6f044@mail.gmail.com> Jim, While there is not a list like this persee, the Nabs list performs this function, to an extent. Many prospective employers post job opportunities on list through the list owner David Andrews. Because the opportunities are being delivered through a list which many students are subscribed to, I am not sure how successful a case you could build for a separate list. By the way, what university did you attend? They seem to have some excellent post college services. Hoping your refreshing input continues, Courtney On 4/20/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? My > alma mater host such a list and it is an extrodinar success. Essentially it > is like any other email list, except in this case, students and other job > seekers subscribe to the list and then perspective employers post > job/internship asnnouncements. > > It seems that there are enough entrapenurers, managers, and governemt > workers within the NFB that such a list could become a success. > > Its a win-win, the employer gets free advertising for his/her job openings, > and students get the benifit of having job announcements delivered right to > their email boxes. > > Just an idea > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 20:56:48 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:56:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20904201257t5d095eefh1af635c91cc6f044@mail.gmail.com> References: <697611.74634.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7949e5e20904201257t5d095eefh1af635c91cc6f044@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <423e6e460904201356u3c922994v397060e803734a75@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jim and listers, David Andrews as well as various other listers post job announcements to the list when they receive them. They do not come all that frequently however, we do occasionally post them. Hope this helps! Domonique Lawless List-serve co-chair On 4/20/09, Linda Stover wrote: > Jim, > > While there is not a list like this persee, the Nabs list performs > this function, to an extent. Many prospective employers post job > opportunities on list through the list owner David Andrews. Because > the opportunities are being delivered through a list which many > students are subscribed to, I am not sure how successful a case you > could build for a separate list. > > By the way, what university did you attend? They seem to have some > excellent post college services. > Hoping your refreshing input continues, > Courtney > > On 4/20/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> Has the NABS ever considered or tried a "job announcement" email list? My >> alma mater host such a list and it is an extrodinar success. Essentially >> it >> is like any other email list, except in this case, students and other job >> seekers subscribe to the list and then perspective employers post >> job/internship asnnouncements. >> >> It seems that there are enough entrapenurers, managers, and governemt >> workers within the NFB that such a list could become a success. >> >> Its a win-win, the employer gets free advertising for his/her job >> openings, >> and students get the benifit of having job announcements delivered right >> to >> their email boxes. >> >> Just an idea >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From fowlers at syix.com Mon Apr 20 22:37:02 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:37:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar In-Reply-To: <692925.83428.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <692925.83428.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04ED6C8CEF6247D3BB3BE0A0A6E39C99@angelab> Well, if the web seminar isn't during convention, if it is... Say, in the middle of winter when nothing else is happening, the NFB shouldn't have a problem with it. We need to do more online outreach stuff anyway. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 12:42 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Hello, Many peole keep mentioning that there will be an employment seminar at the national convention. They seem to be missing the point of a web seminar. Not all (do I dare say most?) blind people will be unable to go to the national convention due to schedule conflicts, family commitments, financial issues, or they simply have no interest in going to Detroit in mid-summer.  I'm sure a web seminar would run counter to the NFB's stratagy of offering the employment seminar as an attraction drawing people to the national convention; to that I say "so what?". What a web seminar would do is provide everyone access to the necisary information; not just those who can afford to attend the convention.  Unfourtunatly, I have no skills or knowledge in disability law, nor do I have any knowledge on how to put on a web seminar. Hopefully someone with more knowledge or experience within these realms will take this idea and run with it. I would be willing to help, but I'm afraid I would be of little use. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 00:14:21 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:14:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now I'll offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never easy, blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, your strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share the same views about what disability means for their expectations of the vacancy in question. It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become so infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so obsessed with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education to be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential employer and from the perspective of the applicant. >From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime you're still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had better be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you as the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal proceedings are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how to engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your disability. So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between yourself and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the basic human interaction involved in these interviews. My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness-related job, it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be a direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are blind only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite your being blind. My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is only a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need not know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them decide how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot afford to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of the deck of cards as long as you can. Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field of interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the notion of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of national service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your network, your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do with the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something you cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half as cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire yourself? So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or so developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire you despite this fact. In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can see how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to get from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I could to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final report. Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're a bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about doing what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there any associations you could join? Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let me include that on our web site. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Hello, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can use them to my advantage. I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: 1. Reasonable accomidations 2. Disability law 3. disclosure stratagies 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. Other employment resources These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their education. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 21 00:44:15 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:44:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar References: <692925.83428.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004501c9c21a$4d8156b0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, I have repeatedly told several accounts of how I was able to attend a national convention having to deal with a number of extenuating circumstances. I have also seen several other members do the same. There's the lady that left a hospital on a Saturday afternoon after having her gallbladder removed and a hernia repaired and that same evening board a flight to Dallas for last year's national convention. Both her and I were out on the march the following Wednesday with many others. I know because I traveled with her. And we did it without a single cent of assistance from anyone. There was also the gentleman who was encouraged by members of his chapter to attend a national convention in 1984 during the June chapter meeting. That gentleman got busy and found the cash to put him in Phoenix. And it was a good thing he rose to the challenge as he and his wife celebrated their 24th Wedding Anniversary last month. There were several members that gave birth during the national convention. And for a few others the national convention was the last stop on their road of life. We've seen countless cases in which members who thought they couldn't afford to attend the national convention rise to the challenge and come to experience this life-changing event and they're glad they did. They set the example for others to follow. The assistance is there, but you must first believe you can attend and find a way to get there. There are too many examples of members who due to extenuating circumstances thought they couldn't attend the national convention but when they began to believe they could be there they made it happen and had their lives changed forever. Webinars are great, but a total immersion experience is the gold standard! Would you want someone to just tell you how to use a cane online, or meet successful blind role models who can actually show you how to use a cane at an NFB event? Would you want someone to just explain how they do their job over the Net, or have one or more blind persons walk you through what they do and show you the alternative techniques they use during an NFB employment seminar at the national convention?My advice to all of you is to find a way to be with us in Detroit this summer and get the total immersion experience; not just half of the program. This advice comes from someone who has constructed Web sites and other Internet resources for numerous NFB affiliates. Mary and I hope to see many of you in Detroit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Hello, Many peole keep mentioning that there will be an employment seminar at the national convention. They seem to be missing the point of a web seminar. Not all (do I dare say most?) blind people will be unable to go to the national convention due to schedule conflicts, family commitments, financial issues, or they simply have no interest in going to Detroit in mid-summer. I'm sure a web seminar would run counter to the NFB's stratagy of offering the employment seminar as an attraction drawing people to the national convention; to that I say "so what?". What a web seminar would do is provide everyone access to the necisary information; not just those who can afford to attend the convention. Unfourtunatly, I have no skills or knowledge in disability law, nor do I have any knowledge on how to put on a web seminar. Hopefully someone with more knowledge or experience within these realms will take this idea and run with it. I would be willing to help, but I'm afraid I would be of little use. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Apr 21 01:22:27 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:22:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Message-ID: <20090421012227.29007.81894@web1.serotek.com> Jim and All: I think a webinar is a great idea. we might even be able to hear from members of the NFB who worked for Job Opportunities for the Blind. Also, some of our leadership (both in NABS and nationally) have written some interesting articles on the subject of job readiness. Perhaps we can pool the talent that's already in place? Original message: > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If > others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS > to use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs > designed to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding > jobs as blind people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't > know anything about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to > me, or how I can use them to my advantage. > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates > to host webinars geared toward > disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies > 5. Other employment resources > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I > think such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it > furthers the education of its student members, and it promotes > vocational oppertunities for students to use their education. > Jim > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 01:42:26 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:42:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar In-Reply-To: <004501c9c21a$4d8156b0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <8E6524B0263448908631BFC4A32D9814@Rufus> Pete, Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment. A person could find the funds to get themselves to convention, or, they could find the funds to raise for the March for Independence. Which should they do if funds are tight all around? It's not a question specifically for you. Actually, it's a question I've pondered in general. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Good evening everyone, I have repeatedly told several accounts of how I was able to attend a national convention having to deal with a number of extenuating circumstances. I have also seen several other members do the same. There's the lady that left a hospital on a Saturday afternoon after having her gallbladder removed and a hernia repaired and that same evening board a flight to Dallas for last year's national convention. Both her and I were out on the march the following Wednesday with many others. I know because I traveled with her. And we did it without a single cent of assistance from anyone. There was also the gentleman who was encouraged by members of his chapter to attend a national convention in 1984 during the June chapter meeting. That gentleman got busy and found the cash to put him in Phoenix. And it was a good thing he rose to the challenge as he and his wife celebrated their 24th Wedding Anniversary last month. There were several members that gave birth during the national convention. And for a few others the national convention was the last stop on their road of life. We've seen countless cases in which members who thought they couldn't afford to attend the national convention rise to the challenge and come to experience this life-changing event and they're glad they did. They set the example for others to follow. The assistance is there, but you must first believe you can attend and find a way to get there. There are too many examples of members who due to extenuating circumstances thought they couldn't attend the national convention but when they began to believe they could be there they made it happen and had their lives changed forever. Webinars are great, but a total immersion experience is the gold standard! Would you want someone to just tell you how to use a cane online, or meet successful blind role models who can actually show you how to use a cane at an NFB event? Would you want someone to just explain how they do their job over the Net, or have one or more blind persons walk you through what they do and show you the alternative techniques they use during an NFB employment seminar at the national convention?My advice to all of you is to find a way to be with us in Detroit this summer and get the total immersion experience; not just half of the program. This advice comes from someone who has constructed Web sites and other Internet resources for numerous NFB affiliates. Mary and I hope to see many of you in Detroit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Hello, Many peole keep mentioning that there will be an employment seminar at the national convention. They seem to be missing the point of a web seminar. Not all (do I dare say most?) blind people will be unable to go to the national convention due to schedule conflicts, family commitments, financial issues, or they simply have no interest in going to Detroit in mid-summer. I'm sure a web seminar would run counter to the NFB's stratagy of offering the employment seminar as an attraction drawing people to the national convention; to that I say "so what?". What a web seminar would do is provide everyone access to the necisary information; not just those who can afford to attend the convention. Unfourtunatly, I have no skills or knowledge in disability law, nor do I have any knowledge on how to put on a web seminar. Hopefully someone with more knowledge or experience within these realms will take this idea and run with it. I would be willing to help, but I'm afraid I would be of little use. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue 1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Apr 21 02:03:47 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:03:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Buy Braille Coins Message-ID: Dick Davis, from our Minnesota Affiliate has written some instructions on ordering Louis Braille Commemorative Coins from the U.S. Mint. The price of the coins goes up on Monday April 27th so buy now! Dave How to order Braille coins from the U.S. Mint Online: Go to: catalog.usmint.gov In left hand column select commemoratives. 3 choices: proof, uncirculated, uncirculated with easy open capsule Select your choice and order. By phone: Call 800-872-6468 (800-usa-mint) Prices before and after 5 p.m. EDT on 4/27: Uncirculated with (or without) easy open capsule: before - $31.95 after - $33.95 Proof: before - $37.95 after - $41.95 Shipping costs - about $5.00 From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Apr 21 02:41:50 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:41:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> hi all, I've been reading this discussion with interest. I have a question about disclosure though: my resume hints at my being blind, but it's almost unintentionally. I've worked for the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, and have some scholarships from organizations/groups with the words "blind" or "disability" in the name of the company or scholarship. This means that a potential employer may notice I have a disability before I show up at the interview. I know that explicit disclosure on a resume/cover letter is discourage, but is this unintentional disclosure an issue too? Thank you, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Jim, I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now I'll offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never easy, blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, your strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share the same views about what disability means for their expectations of the vacancy in question. It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become so infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so obsessed with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education to be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential employer and from the perspective of the applicant. >From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime you're still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had better be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you as the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal proceedings are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how to engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your disability. So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between yourself and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the basic human interaction involved in these interviews. My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness-related job, it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be a direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are blind only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite your being blind. My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is only a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need not know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them decide how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot afford to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of the deck of cards as long as you can. Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field of interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the notion of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of national service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your network, your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do with the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something you cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half as cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire yourself? So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or so developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire you despite this fact. In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can see how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to get from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I could to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final report. Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're a bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about doing what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there any associations you could join? Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let me include that on our web site. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Hello, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can use them to my advantage. I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: 1. Reasonable accomidations 2. Disability law 3. disclosure stratagies 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. Other employment resources These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their education. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 21 05:09:16 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 22:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Jobs, interviews, resumes... Message-ID: <687033.85161.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Mr. Orozco, Thank you for your reply, and yes it does help some. First, I just want a job, no, I want a career in public land management (I am refering to national parks, national forest, BLM land, etc). I want to be a productive contributor to society. I have no interest in suing anybody for discrimination. I just want to know about the laws so I know what is or isn't possible. For example, I asked 4 different people if hiring a driver was a reasonable accomidation, and I got 4 different versions of "maybe". The only common answer amongst the four individuals was "the agency defines what is reasonable." Yet, according to you and others, I should not disclose my blindness. It is ironic that the one entity with the answer to the question "is a driver a reasonable accomidation?", can't be asked. In my opinion, a person should disclose their disability prior to a job offer (actually, it should be disclosed after the interview offer, but prior to the interview). In my opinion,  when a disabled person applies for a job, part of the interview should determine if and how the individual and the agency can work together so that the disabled person can do the job. In my mind, disclosing prior to the interview allows the the individual and the agency to begin a dialouge as to how you can be accomidated, that way when you go into the interview, the interviewer already knows that you can be successfully accomidated; knows the specific limitations of your diability, and as a reult, the fear of hiring a "dud" is lessened. Maybe my views are not realistic, I don't know Additionally, it seems dishonest to not disclose prior to a job offer. True, you have a stronger legal leg to stand on if you disclose after the job offer, but is the employer going to be happy knowing that you began the employment relationship on what essentially amounts to a lie? Is the employer going to be willing to go out of his/her way to work with you when you begain the employment relationshiop on a lie? A intentional omission is a lie. Regarding my additude towards my blindness, addmitedly it sucks. Blindness is not super-happy-fun-tiime, being blind sucks. Would I hire me? No, I would not hire me. Its not that I wouldnt hire me because I am blind, I wouldnt hire me because I represent an additional burden to the agency that a "normal" person does not.  It is called a DISability for a reason; I lack ability. My blindness doesnt make me "unique" or "special"; my blindness makes me a pain in the ass. Would you hire a hemorrhoid? There is no way to put a positive spin on blindness. You can polish a turd all day, but in the end, its stull a turd. Personally, honestly,  I don't truely believe that there is anything unique about me or my proffessional skill set that overcomes the fact that I am (or will be) a pain in the ass for my employer. I am banking on the fact that my forthcoming Masters degree will give me enough of an edge over my competition that an employer will be willing to accept the extra burden. I don't know, maybe I am jaded by the fact that for my whole life I never really concidered myself as disabled. I always denied my blindess; until reciently I was driving and reading unmagnified text. In my mind, I was blind, but not disabled. Then, it reached a point where I couldnt pretend anymore. I am blind; I am disabled. I used to believe that if I worked hard enough I could do anything I wanted. Now, its like "whats the point on trying?" Have I really been reduced to the point of begging for jobs that I cant really physiclly do 100%? Am I really just a charity case? Try as I might, I cant find anything positive that has came out of being blind. Thanks, Jim  "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From corbbo at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 05:15:13 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 01:15:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <6D73EE56-320A-4B60-AC3C-66ED0D77C281@gmail.com> Hi Sarah, I have no problem mentioning that I am the Treasurer of the Potomac Chapter in Virginia; I mention that I "advocate for full inclusion of people with disabilities to Congress and community members"; and I talk about my strengths in organizing/fundraising that I've learned in the NFB. Some people may look at that and say "oh don't say that, they'll discriminate." I look at it and say, "Why ignore a part of your skill set?" If you've done something in the NFB or broader disability community of which you are proud or have learned, mentioning it is a strength not a weakness. I was interviewing for an internship a few weeks ago, and--as always-- toward the middle of the interview when it was my turn to ask questions, I ask a question that I always ask in an interview: "Now I know there are laws about what you can and can't ask about my blindness. Let's put all of those away. What questions about my blindness can I answer for you?" Many employers will be put at ease, and they'll ask everything from how I use a computer to how I led tours of the Capitol last summer. This time, though, I got an interesting response: "I don't have any. I figure once you're this far along in your life, you're doing something right even though something medically might not be working right." Just goes to show you -- some people can put the disability aside and evaluate you like any other job candidate. After all, that's what we've wanted along. Corbb On Apr 20, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: hi all, I've been reading this discussion with interest. I have a question about disclosure though: my resume hints at my being blind, but it's almost unintentionally. I've worked for the Canadian National Institute for the Blind, and have some scholarships from organizations/groups with the words "blind" or "disability" in the name of the company or scholarship. This means that a potential employer may notice I have a disability before I show up at the interview. I know that explicit disclosure on a resume/cover letter is discourage, but is this unintentional disclosure an issue too? Thank you, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Jim, I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now I'll offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never easy, blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, your strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share the same views about what disability means for their expectations of the vacancy in question. It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become so infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so obsessed with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education to be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential employer and from the perspective of the applicant. > From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle > you for having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime you're still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had better be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you as the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal proceedings are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how to engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your disability. So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between yourself and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the basic human interaction involved in these interviews. My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness- related job, it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be a direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are blind only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite your being blind. My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is only a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need not know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them decide how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot afford to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of the deck of cards as long as you can. Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field of interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the notion of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of national service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your network, your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do with the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something you cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half as cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire yourself? So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or so developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire you despite this fact. In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can see how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to get from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I could to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final report. Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're a bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about doing what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there any associations you could join? Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let me include that on our web site. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Hello, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, or how I can use them to my advantage. I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: 1. Reasonable accomidations 2. Disability law 3. disclosure stratagies 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. Other employment resources These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their education. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 10:30:24 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 06:30:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <939227B65C0A4410B3E002DE5855734A@Jessica> Sarah, I would say no. Because I've also done the same thing as you have to a certain degree. Pretty much all my work experience has been in the field of working with students with either visual impairment or working at a pre college prep program which is sponsored by the Commission for the Blind and VESID which is the general rehabilitation agency in New York State.. And, up until last year it was run by the Director of the Disability Resource Center at SUNY Albany. Basically had the opportunity to work with with young adults who were sponsored by their respective agency because their counselors felt that these students could use sometime to get used to being on a college campus before some of them would have started in some cases college the following fall semester. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > hi all, > I've been reading this discussion with interest. I have a question about > disclosure though: my resume hints at my being blind, but it's almost > unintentionally. I've worked for the Canadian National Institute for the > Blind, and have some scholarships from organizations/groups with the words > "blind" or "disability" in the name of the company or scholarship. This > means that a potential employer may notice I have a disability before I > show > up at the interview. I know that explicit disclosure on a resume/cover > letter is discourage, but is this unintentional disclosure an issue too? > Thank you, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Jim, > > I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should > incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer > dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now > I'll > offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. > > Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never > easy, > blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's > and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, > your > strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for > yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share > the > same views about what disability means for their expectations of the > vacancy > in question. > > It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the > EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become > so > infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so > obsessed > with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to > meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's > important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you > allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk > of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education > to > be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential > employer and from the perspective of the applicant. > >>From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for > having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your > abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could > pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime > you're > still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had > better > be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain > at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring > standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you > as > the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal > proceedings > are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how > to > engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your > disability. > > So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. > Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do > rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between > yourself > and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking > to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws > and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential > liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but > never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. > There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a > well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, > interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the > basic > human interaction involved in these interviews. > > My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have > previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness-related > job, > it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be > a > direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no > reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at > this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are > blind > only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite > your being blind. > > My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is > confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A > confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by > themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is > only > a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a > noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need > not > know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or > Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first > meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without > advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a > deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume > that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them > decide > how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot > afford > to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will > overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of > the > deck of cards as long as you can. > > Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these > points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field > of > interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume > that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships > offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from > your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change > about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? > > When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the > notion > of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by > their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of > national > service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that > first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your > network, > your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well > figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. > > But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn > about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me > smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be > discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your > visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do > with > the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which > is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're > going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile > according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're > waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something > you > cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half > as > cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire > yourself? > So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or > so > developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire > you > despite this fact. > > In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use > course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, > because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea > there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical > street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can > see > how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to > get > from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I > could > to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final > report. > > Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have > had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and > put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're > a > bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the > way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. > > I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about > doing > what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago > spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land > manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there > any > associations you could join? > > Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to > you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let > me include that on our web site. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a > job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be > helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting > together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most > effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I > don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, > or how I can use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and > advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility > employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. > Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my > head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the > NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and > it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their > education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From liz.bottner at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 14:35:45 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:35:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jobs, interviews, resumes... In-Reply-To: <687033.85161.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <687033.85161.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49edd99f.85c2f10a.40d0.ffffce3b@mx.google.com> Jim and all, My view on when to disclose disability is this: I would rather not say anything until the interview itself. When I walk in with my dog or cane is when the people will know that I am blind. Up to that point, I will be viewed as equally as any other candidate. It shouldn't matter, anyway. I see no reason to give the potential employer a heads up because I'm blind. After all, that doesn't mean anything. So what? As far as proving you are a successful candidate, the interview, not anytime before, is the time to do just that. Sell yourself. Make the potential employer aware that just because you are blind doesn't mean that you are any less capable. If you have to, bring your laptop or electronic notetaker or any other technology that you use and demonstrate that. In no time, any doubts or fears that the employer has will hopefully be put to rest. Jim, as far as you not seeing blindness in a positive light, that really is unfortunate. True, it can be frustrating as anything, anyone would tell you that, I would think. However, it doesn't have to be viewed as a burden or negatively. There are so many of us out there that have gone through similar situations, and we can network with and talk to one another to get advice or just vent about what is a pain in the butt. I will admit, I haven't necessarily had a lot of interview experience myself as of yet, but all of what I said makes sense to me. Take from all of that what you want. I hope it helps, though. Take care, and feel free to contact me off list if you have any questions about anything I've said. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March for Independence: http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea m&fr_id=1050 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 21 14:49:33 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:49:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> <6D73EE56-320A-4B60-AC3C-66ED0D77C281@gmail.com> Message-ID: Corbb, Did you get the internship? Thought I heard you were working. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > Hi Sarah, > > I have no problem mentioning that I am the Treasurer of the Potomac > Chapter in Virginia; I mention that I "advocate for full inclusion of > people with disabilities to Congress and community members"; and I talk > about my strengths in organizing/fundraising that I've learned in the > NFB. Some people may look at that and say "oh don't say that, they'll > discriminate." I look at it and say, "Why ignore a part of your skill > set?" If you've done something in the NFB or broader disability community > of which you are proud or have learned, mentioning it is a strength not a > weakness. > > I was interviewing for an internship a few weeks ago, and--as always-- > toward the middle of the interview when it was my turn to ask questions, > I ask a question that I always ask in an interview: "Now I know there are > laws about what you can and can't ask about my blindness. Let's put all > of those away. What questions about my blindness can I answer for you?" > Many employers will be put at ease, and they'll ask everything from how I > use a computer to how I led tours of the Capitol last summer. This time, > though, I got an interesting response: "I don't have any. I figure once > you're this far along in your life, you're doing something right even > though something medically might not be working right." Just goes to show > you -- some people can put the disability aside and evaluate you like any > other job candidate. After all, that's what we've wanted along. > > Corbb > > > On Apr 20, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote: > > hi all, > I've been reading this discussion with interest. I have a question about > disclosure though: my resume hints at my being blind, but it's almost > unintentionally. I've worked for the Canadian National Institute for the > Blind, and have some scholarships from organizations/groups with the > words > "blind" or "disability" in the name of the company or scholarship. This > means that a potential employer may notice I have a disability before I > show > up at the interview. I know that explicit disclosure on a resume/cover > letter is discourage, but is this unintentional disclosure an issue too? > Thank you, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Jim, > > I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS > should > incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer > dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now > I'll > offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. > > Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never > easy, > blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's > and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, > your > strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for > yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share > the > same views about what disability means for their expectations of the > vacancy > in question. > > It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, > the > EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become > so > infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so > obsessed > with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to > meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's > important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you > allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the > risk > of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education > to > be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential > employer and from the perspective of the applicant. > >> From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you >> for > having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your > abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could > pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime > you're > still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had > better > be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to > complain > at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring > standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you > as > the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal > proceedings > are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how > to > engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your > disability. > > So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. > Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do > rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between > yourself > and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're > asking > to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws > and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a > potential > liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but > never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. > There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a > well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, > interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the > basic > human interaction involved in these interviews. > > My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have > previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness- related > job, > it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be > a > direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no > reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk > at > this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are > blind > only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite > your being blind. > > My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is > confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A > confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by > themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is > only > a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a > noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need > not > know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or > Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first > meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without > advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a > deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume > that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them > decide > how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot > afford > to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will > overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of > the > deck of cards as long as you can. > > Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these > points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field > of > interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume > that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there > internships > offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn > from > your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change > about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? > > When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the > notion > of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by > their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of > national > service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that > first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your > network, > your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very > well > figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. > > But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much > stubborn > about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me > smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be > discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your > visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do > with > the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. > Which > is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're > going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile > according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're > waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something > you > cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half > as > cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire > yourself? > So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or > so > developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire > you > despite this fact. > > In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use > course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated > it, > because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no > idea > there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical > street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can > see > how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to > get > from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I > could > to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final > report. > > Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may > have > had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics > and > put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. > You're a > bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from > the > way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. > > I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about > doing > what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago > spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land > manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there > any > associations you could join? > > Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to > you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to > let > me include that on our web site. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a > job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be > helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting > together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most > effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I > don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, > or how I can use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and > advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility > employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. > Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my > head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the > NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and > it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their > education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 21 15:08:13 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:08:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? References: Message-ID: <99BBB82596F84B6DB95A554BF713B7B9@Ashley> Hi Joe, I think job readiness is something nabs should put into its agenda more like at student seminars. Yes its hard to teach resume building and interview skills. Your campus career center can help out though. Mine has workshops on topics and I plan to go to them or you can sit down privately with a staff member and they can critique your resume. Interviewing is a learning experience for everyone and I've heard applicants get better over time. As to disclosure, I agree it should not be in the cover letter or resume. However, I think disclosing before or during the interview is fine. Jim did the right thing by disclosing. He cannot drive and that is essential to the job. The employer cannot accomodate him if he is not upfront and honest about his condition. While blindness should not be the central point of the interview, explaining how you do things may put them at ease. For instance if they ask about your communication skills, you can say something like "During meetings I took notes with my Braille Note and my notes allowed me to carry out my responsibilities after the meeting." This is a personal thing and no two blind people will handle it the same way. But that's some of my opinion. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > Jim, > > I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should > incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer > dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now > I'll > offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. > > Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never > easy, > blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's > and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, > your > strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for > yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share > the > same views about what disability means for their expectations of the > vacancy > in question. > > It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the > EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become > so > infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so > obsessed > with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to > meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's > important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you > allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk > of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education > to > be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential > employer and from the perspective of the applicant. > >>From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for > having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your > abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could > pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime > you're > still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had > better > be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain > at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring > standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you > as > the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal > proceedings > are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how > to > engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your > disability. > > So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. > Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do > rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between > yourself > and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking > to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws > and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential > liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but > never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. > There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a > well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, > interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the > basic > human interaction involved in these interviews. > > My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have > previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness-related > job, > it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be > a > direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no > reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at > this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are > blind > only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite > your being blind. > > My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is > confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A > confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by > themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is > only > a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a > noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need > not > know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or > Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first > meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without > advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a > deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume > that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them > decide > how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot > afford > to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will > overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of > the > deck of cards as long as you can. > > Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these > points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field > of > interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume > that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships > offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from > your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change > about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? > > When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the > notion > of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by > their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of > national > service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that > first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your > network, > your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well > figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. > > But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn > about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me > smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be > discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your > visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do > with > the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which > is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're > going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile > according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're > waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something > you > cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half > as > cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire > yourself? > So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or > so > developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire > you > despite this fact. > > In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use > course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, > because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea > there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical > street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can > see > how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to > get > from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I > could > to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final > report. > > Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have > had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and > put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're > a > bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the > way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. > > I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about > doing > what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago > spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land > manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there > any > associations you could join? > > Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to > you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let > me include that on our web site. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a > job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be > helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting > together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most > effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I > don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, > or how I can use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and > advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility > employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. > Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my > head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the > NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and > it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their > education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 21 15:15:11 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:15:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disabilities References: <245011.98535.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <87E209E42AAF47388F648CE83453BD3F@Ashley> Jim, Glad you interviewed for the position. Perhaps they're taking longer to decide. You did the right thing by disclosing you cannot drive and your visual limitations. I think driving on the job is rather hazardess. So don't do it! If you want such a position, find an alternative. Could rehab help pay for a driver? They pay for readers. How about geting a volunteer driver? I think you should be more open to other jobs to build experience. What was your degree in? How about doing a jobwith parks that does not involve driving? Maybe working at an information desk. Also what is your vision and acuity? You have a lot and I can see why you are struggling whether to use it or not. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:20 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Disclosing disabilities > Hello, > First, I know the email link I provided was from the UK. I sent it because > alot of the information was general, it did not pertain specificly to > British law. > > Second, I just had a job interview on thursday. I was applying for a > Survey Coordinator position with Montana Fish, WIldlife, and Parks. The > survey will be conducted on recreationist on the Madision River in MT. The > job involves talking to visitors, collecting data, analyising the data and > writing a report. > > I still have much of my vision, so those task are not problematic. The > problem is that the position involves driving to survey sites (the river > is 170 miles long). I have recently decided that driving is becoming less > and less of a good idea for me. So I had an internal battle as to whether > to tell MT FWP, or not. My dad was telling me not to tell them because > "your only going to be driving on backroads, theres nothing for you to > hit." My voc rehab councelor was telling me to wait until after I was > offered a job to disclose. And the President of the Montana state > affiliate suggested waiting until the end of the interview. This was the > advice I chose to follow. > > One of the things that made me apply for the job was that I thought I > would be supervising two employees, and I thought I would be able to ride > out to the river with them. Well, I got triped up in the interview when I > was told that MTFWP had not yet decided if they were going to hire those > extra people. At that point I didnt know what to do. My plans for using > those other two employees as drivers (reasonable accomidation) went out > the window. I did not follow the "6 p's" and I paid for it (the 6 P"s are > Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance). I had no plan for what to > do if those other employees wouldnt be avaliable. So, I stuck with my > original plan; At the end of the interview, I disclosed the fact that I > couldnt drive. They said they appreciated me being honest. > > Anyhow, the interview was on Thursday, they were supposed to have made a > desision on Friday. Today is Saturday, and I still havent heard anything. > I hope I didn't disclose myself right out of a job. > > This really sucks because my goal is to work as a public land manager. I > have had enopugh bosses and summer jobs to know that once you reach the > full-time permant positions, it is almost all office work. The problem is, > in order to get those full-time permant positions, you must first "pay > your dues" by working in the field. And almost all field jobs involve > driving. I am almost at a point where I am willing to drive inorder to > obtain the summer jobs that will lead to full-time work. as the saying > goes "get rich or die trying". I am almost willing to "succed or die > trying." If only I could insure I wouldnt kill anyone else in the > process... > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From hope.paulos at maine.edu Tue Apr 21 15:27:39 2009 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:27:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jobs, interviews, resumes... Message-ID: <20090421152533361.QXMM12638@hrndva-omta01.mail.rr.com> I agree with Liz. When I walk into the interview with my dog is when they will find out I'm blind. I'm always willing to answer questions if they have doubts about my ability to perform certain tasks. I think bringing in pieces of technology to demonstrate is a really good idea. I hadn't thought of that. I don't have much experience with interviews, either, but all of Liz' suggestions sound good. Although blindness can certainly be a pain to deal with, it certainly shouldn't stop you from persuing your goals in life. About 2 years ago, I ran a half marathon (13.1 miles). I was running with a sighted guide, but the run was mine. The guide couldn't run the steps for me. This year I hope to run another half and an entire marathon. Although running marathons is not student related, I speak about it here to show that blindness shouldn't stop us from persuing our goals. The only thing we can't do is see. Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- >From: "Liz Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Date sent: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 10:35:45 -0400 >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Jobs, interviews, resumes... >Jim and all, >My view on when to disclose disability is this: >I would rather not say anything until the interview itself. When I walk in >with my dog or cane is when the people will know that I am blind. Up to that >point, I will be viewed as equally as any other candidate. It shouldn't >matter, anyway. I see no reason to give the potential employer a heads up >because I'm blind. After all, that doesn't mean anything. So what? >As far as proving you are a successful candidate, the interview, not anytime >before, is the time to do just that. Sell yourself. Make the potential >employer aware that just because you are blind doesn't mean that you are any >less capable. If you have to, bring your laptop or electronic notetaker or >any other technology that you use and demonstrate that. In no time, any >doubts or fears that the employer has will hopefully be put to rest. >Jim, as far as you not seeing blindness in a positive light, that really is >unfortunate. True, it can be frustrating as anything, anyone would tell you >that, I would think. However, it doesn't have to be viewed as a burden or >negatively. There are so many of us out there that have gone through similar >situations, and we can network with and talk to one another to get advice or >just vent about what is a pain in the butt. >I will admit, I haven't necessarily had a lot of interview experience myself >as of yet, but all of what I said makes sense to me. Take from all of that >what you want. I hope it helps, though. >Take care, and feel free to contact me off list if you have any questions >about anything I've said. >Liz >email: >liz.bottner at gmail.com >Visit my livejournal: >http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  >Follow me on Twitter: >http://twitter.com/lizbot >Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March >for Independence: >http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id= 2830&pg=tea >m&fr_id=1050 >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul os%40maine..edu From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 21 15:28:00 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:28:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity References: <669934.45437.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <27F006C3F7C14F4A952300CBAD724AC5@Ashley> What is disc golf? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: "NABS mail list" Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:38 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity > Hey guys, > I suggest the NABS sponsor a disc golf (folf) outing at the national > convention. The Proffessional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) holds its World > Championships in Kalamazoo, MI., aproxamatly 2 hours from Detroit (to host > a world championship, its gotta be a nice course(s)). Also, I'm sure there > are courses in the greater Detroit area. If you all are interested, I know > where to look to try to track down the local disc golf clubs (Detroit > and/or Kalamazoo). > > Let me know, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 21 15:38:35 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:38:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? References: <912762.32683.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <001301c9c22a$b9cb1940$2d614bc0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Sara, No, untentional disclosure isn't a problem. On my resume, I also hint at it too. I said I volunteered for the talking book library. Even if they figure out your blind, you mention it in a positive light saying what you can do. I think explicit disclosure is a problem though. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > hi all, > I've been reading this discussion with interest. I have a question about > disclosure though: my resume hints at my being blind, but it's almost > unintentionally. I've worked for the Canadian National Institute for the > Blind, and have some scholarships from organizations/groups with the words > "blind" or "disability" in the name of the company or scholarship. This > means that a potential employer may notice I have a disability before I > show > up at the interview. I know that explicit disclosure on a resume/cover > letter is discourage, but is this unintentional disclosure an issue too? > Thank you, > Sarah > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Jim, > > I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should > incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer > dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now > I'll > offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. > > Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never > easy, > blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's > and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, > your > strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for > yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share > the > same views about what disability means for their expectations of the > vacancy > in question. > > It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the > EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become > so > infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so > obsessed > with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to > meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's > important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you > allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk > of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education > to > be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential > employer and from the perspective of the applicant. > >>From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for > having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your > abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could > pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime > you're > still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had > better > be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain > at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring > standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you > as > the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal > proceedings > are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how > to > engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your > disability. > > So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. > Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do > rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between > yourself > and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking > to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws > and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential > liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but > never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. > There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a > well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, > interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the > basic > human interaction involved in these interviews. > > My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have > previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness-related > job, > it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be > a > direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no > reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at > this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are > blind > only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite > your being blind. > > My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is > confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A > confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by > themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is > only > a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a > noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need > not > know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or > Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first > meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without > advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a > deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume > that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them > decide > how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot > afford > to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will > overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of > the > deck of cards as long as you can. > > Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these > points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field > of > interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume > that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships > offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from > your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change > about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? > > When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the > notion > of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by > their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of > national > service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that > first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your > network, > your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well > figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. > > But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn > about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me > smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be > discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your > visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do > with > the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which > is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're > going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile > according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're > waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something > you > cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half > as > cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire > yourself? > So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or > so > developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire > you > despite this fact. > > In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use > course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, > because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea > there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical > street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can > see > how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to > get > from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I > could > to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final > report. > > Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have > had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and > put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're > a > bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the > way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. > > I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about > doing > what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago > spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land > manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there > any > associations you could join? > > Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to > you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let > me include that on our web site. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a > job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be > helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting > together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most > effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I > don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, > or how I can use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and > advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility > employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. > Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my > head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the > NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and > it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their > education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From cassonw at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 15:57:26 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 08:57:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity In-Reply-To: <27F006C3F7C14F4A952300CBAD724AC5@Ashley> References: <669934.45437.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <27F006C3F7C14F4A952300CBAD724AC5@Ashley> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904210857u279b6e6av4875bab1a234b11e@mail.gmail.com> Is it the same thing as frizbee golf? Bill VP Oregon Association of Blind Students 503-768-8982 cassonw at gmail.com On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > What is disc golf? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" > To: "NABS mail list" > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 3:38 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Idea for a NABS national convention activity > > > Hey guys, >> I suggest the NABS sponsor a disc golf (folf) outing at the national >> convention. The Proffessional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) holds its World >> Championships in Kalamazoo, MI., aproxamatly 2 hours from Detroit (to host a >> world championship, its gotta be a nice course(s)). Also, I'm sure there are >> courses in the greater Detroit area. If you all are interested, I know where >> to look to try to track down the local disc golf clubs (Detroit and/or >> Kalamazoo). >> >> Let me know, >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From MRiccobono at nfb.org Tue Apr 21 16:53:49 2009 From: MRiccobono at nfb.org (Riccobono, Mark) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:53:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Actor Sought Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: bkmabma at yahoo.com [mailto:bkmabma at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:51 AM To: Steve Handschuh; Riccobono, Mark; McCarthy, Jim Subject: Blind Actor needed Do we have someone interested in something like this? From: Marie Ullrich [mailto:marie.ullrich at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:54 AM Subject: Re: graduate student's thesis film Hello , .... So, regarding finding an actor for the film who is blind - I'm going to hold another round of auditions very soon. I don't know how you'd get the word out, but here is a description of the character who is blind - and anyone who is interested can email me their headshot (or current photo) and acting resume, and for the audition I ask for a contemporary dramatic monologue. The shoot dates are May 30th - June 7th. There is no pay (I'm funding the film out of my own pocket), and there will be probably 5 or more hours of rehearsal before the shoot. I'm really only interested in local actors. PAUL SHERMAN Caucasian. Late 30's to early 40's. Tall, brunette or greying and / or curly hair. Paul is fully blind. He and his sister Nancy came from an affluent if not wealthy family in a medium sized city. Now Paul runs his own non-profit agency and is less affluent, but he cares deeply about the work he does. Beyond that, I wonder if you might have a student at Columbia might like to write a press release for the film. I have a list of bullet points that I'd like to be included but I don't really know how to shape it myself. I guess I could take a stab at writing it, but it only occurred to me while talking to you Friday that maybe you might have an ace student who you could recommend? The press release would go on my website (which is under construction) and in all Press / Marketing packets associated with the film. Hope I'm not asking too much! It was fantastic meeting you. Hope you had a great weekend despite the rain. Best regards, Marie Ullrich P.S. I should have mentioned, but Marie is pronounced like Calamari or Sari. Sometimes I get embarrassed about my name because it sounds pretentious so I kind of go by anything that starts with an M and is in the right ballpark. From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 21 16:59:53 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:59:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar References: <8E6524B0263448908631BFC4A32D9814@Rufus> Message-ID: <017401c9c2a2$979fc2d0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Joe and listers, Both. Where there's a will there's a way. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Pete, Let me play devil's advocate here for a moment. A person could find the funds to get themselves to convention, or, they could find the funds to raise for the March for Independence. Which should they do if funds are tight all around? It's not a question specifically for you. Actually, it's a question I've pondered in general. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:44 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Good evening everyone, I have repeatedly told several accounts of how I was able to attend a national convention having to deal with a number of extenuating circumstances. I have also seen several other members do the same. There's the lady that left a hospital on a Saturday afternoon after having her gallbladder removed and a hernia repaired and that same evening board a flight to Dallas for last year's national convention. Both her and I were out on the march the following Wednesday with many others. I know because I traveled with her. And we did it without a single cent of assistance from anyone. There was also the gentleman who was encouraged by members of his chapter to attend a national convention in 1984 during the June chapter meeting. That gentleman got busy and found the cash to put him in Phoenix. And it was a good thing he rose to the challenge as he and his wife celebrated their 24th Wedding Anniversary last month. There were several members that gave birth during the national convention. And for a few others the national convention was the last stop on their road of life. We've seen countless cases in which members who thought they couldn't afford to attend the national convention rise to the challenge and come to experience this life-changing event and they're glad they did. They set the example for others to follow. The assistance is there, but you must first believe you can attend and find a way to get there. There are too many examples of members who due to extenuating circumstances thought they couldn't attend the national convention but when they began to believe they could be there they made it happen and had their lives changed forever. Webinars are great, but a total immersion experience is the gold standard! Would you want someone to just tell you how to use a cane online, or meet successful blind role models who can actually show you how to use a cane at an NFB event? Would you want someone to just explain how they do their job over the Net, or have one or more blind persons walk you through what they do and show you the alternative techniques they use during an NFB employment seminar at the national convention?My advice to all of you is to find a way to be with us in Detroit this summer and get the total immersion experience; not just half of the program. This advice comes from someone who has constructed Web sites and other Internet resources for numerous NFB affiliates. Mary and I hope to see many of you in Detroit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] On-line "get a job" seminar Hello, Many peole keep mentioning that there will be an employment seminar at the national convention. They seem to be missing the point of a web seminar. Not all (do I dare say most?) blind people will be unable to go to the national convention due to schedule conflicts, family commitments, financial issues, or they simply have no interest in going to Detroit in mid-summer. I'm sure a web seminar would run counter to the NFB's stratagy of offering the employment seminar as an attraction drawing people to the national convention; to that I say "so what?". What a web seminar would do is provide everyone access to the necisary information; not just those who can afford to attend the convention. Unfourtunatly, I have no skills or knowledge in disability law, nor do I have any knowledge on how to put on a web seminar. Hopefully someone with more knowledge or experience within these realms will take this idea and run with it. I would be willing to help, but I'm afraid I would be of little use. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue 1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue Apr 21 17:15:03 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:15:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Jobs, interviews, resumes... Message-ID: <20090421171503.31881.2523@web3.serotek.com> Jim, This is Jedi. When you have a moment, would you contact me off-list? Thanks. Original message: > Mr. Orozco, > Thank you for your reply, and yes it does help some. First, I just want > a job, no, I want a career in public land management (I am refering to > national parks, national forest, BLM land, etc). I want to be a > productive contributor to society. I have no interest in suing anybody > for discrimination. I just want to know about the laws so I know what > is or isn't possible. For example, I asked 4 different people if hiring > a driver was a reasonable accomidation, and I got 4 different versions > of "maybe". The only common answer amongst the four individuals was > "the agency defines what is reasonable." Yet, according to you and > others, I should not disclose my blindness. It is ironic that the one > entity with the answer to the question "is a driver a reasonable > accomidation?", can't be asked. > In my opinion, a person should disclose their disability prior to a job > offer (actually, it should be disclosed after the interview offer, but > prior to the interview). In my opinion,  when a disabled person applies > for a job, part of the interview should determine if and how the > individual and the agency can work together so that the disabled person > can do the job. In my mind, disclosing prior to the interview allows > the the individual and the agency to begin a dialouge as to how you can > be accomidated, that way when you go into the interview, the > interviewer already knows that you can be successfully accomidated; > knows the specific limitations of your diability, and as a reult, the > fear of hiring a "dud" is lessened. Maybe my views are not realistic, I > don't know > Additionally, it seems dishonest to not disclose prior to a job offer. > True, you have a stronger legal leg to stand on if you disclose after > the job offer, but is the employer going to be happy knowing that you > began the employment relationship on what essentially amounts to a lie? > Is the employer going to be willing to go out of his/her way to work > with you when you begain the employment relationshiop on a lie? A > intentional omission is a lie. > Regarding my additude towards my blindness, addmitedly it sucks. > Blindness is not super-happy-fun-tiime, being blind sucks. Would I hire > me? No, I would not hire me. Its not that I wouldnt hire me because I > am blind, I wouldnt hire me because I represent an additional burden to > the agency that a "normal" person does not.  It is called a DISability > for a reason; I lack ability. My blindness doesnt make me "unique" or > "special"; my blindness makes me a pain in the ass. Would you hire a > hemorrhoid? There is no way to put a positive spin on blindness. You > can polish a turd all day, but in the end, its stull a turd. > Personally, honestly,  I don't truely believe that there is anything > unique about me or my proffessional skill set that overcomes the fact > that I am (or will be) a pain in the ass for my employer. I am banking > on the fact that my forthcoming Masters degree will give me enough of > an edge over my competition that an employer will be willing to > accept the extra burden. > I don't know, maybe I am jaded by the fact that for my whole life I > never really concidered myself as disabled. I always denied my > blindess; until reciently I was driving and reading unmagnified text. > In my mind, I was blind, but not disabled. Then, it reached a point > where I couldnt pretend anymore. I am blind; I am disabled. I used to > believe that if I worked hard enough I could do anything I wanted. Now, > its like "whats the point on trying?" Have I really been reduced to the > point of begging for jobs that I cant really physiclly do 100%? Am I > really just a charity case? Try as I might, I cant find anything > positive that has came out of being blind. > Thanks, > Jim > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From AZNOR99 at aol.com Tue Apr 21 18:47:48 2009 From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:47:48 EDT Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbmd] FW: Scholarships for students with disabilities Message-ID: ____________________________________ From: ERinglein at nfb.org Reply-to: nfbmd at nfbnet.org To: nfbmd at nfbnet.org, greater-baltimore at nfbnet.org Sent: 4/21/2009 1:31:08 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: [Nfbmd] FW: Scholarships for students with disabilities ____________________________________ From: Mollyne Honor [mailto:mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US] Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:44 AM To: LBPH_INFO-L at LISTSRV.MSDE.STATE.MD.US Subject: Scholarships for students with disabilities Google Lime Scholarship for Students with Disabilities Access to knowledge is our thing. When it comes to higher education for promising scholars, we don’t want anything to stand in the way. That’s why we ’re proud to partner with Lime. Google is committed to helping the innovators of the future make the most of their talents by providing scholarships and networking retreats for computer science students with disabilities. Recipients of the Google Lime Scholarship will receive a scholarship for the 2009–2010 academic year. Selected students will also be invited to attend the all-expenses-paid retreat at the Googleplex in Mountain View, CA, in 2010. Scholarships will be awarded based on the strength of candidates’ academic background and demonstrated passion - $10,000USD for those studying in the US and $5,000CAD for those studying in Canada (based on average tuition costs). Eligibility Requirements Candidates must be: * A student entering their junior or senior year of undergraduate study or be enrolled in a graduate program in the 2009–2010 academic year at a university in the United States or Canada (in addition to US and Canada citizens, international students with disabilities studying at universities in the US or Canada are also encouraged to apply) * Enrolled in a Computer Science or Computer Engineering program, or a closely related technical field as a full-time student for the 2009–2010 academic year * A person with a disability (defined as someone who has, or considers themselves to have, a long-term, or recurring, issue that impacts one or more activities that others may consider a daily function); this definition also includes the perception among others that a disability exists How To Apply Candidates will apply online via the Lime online application process, and provide the following: * Contact and education information * Current resume * Academic transcripts * Answers to essay questions * Two recommendation letters from a professor, adviser or supervisor _DOWNLOAD APPLICATION FORM_ (http://www.limeconnect.com/pdf/GoogleApplication.pdf) _DOWNLOAD FLYER_ (http://www.limeconnect.com/pdf/GoogleLimeScholarshipFlyer.pdf) Application Deadline: June 1, 2009 Visit us at _www.google.com/jobs/scholarships_ (http://www.google.com/jobs/scholarships) for more details. _______________________________________________ Nfbmd mailing list Nfbmd at www.nfbnet.org http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbmd_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbmd: http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbmd_nfbnet.org/aznor99%40aol.com **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 4863 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 21 20:23:03 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] What is disc golf? Message-ID: <823694.44760.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Many people have asked, and I have been replying to them off-list, but to reduce confusion, I will post it here. Disc golf is a rapidly growing sport, both nationaly and internationally. It is especially popular among high school and college students. Disc golf is essentially regular golf that is played with moidified frisbees. The disc vary in shape, flight characterisitcs and areodynamics, thus there are "drivers" "mid-rangers" and "putters". Instead of shooting a ball into a hole, you shoot a disc into a elevated basket. Disc golf is played on courses that somewhat resemble golf courses; there are tee boxes, fairways, roughs, and water hazards. The lenghth of most holes vary from 300-500 feet. Most courses have 9 or 18 holes. The rules, game play, and scoreing are almost all identical to golf.  Hope that answers your question Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 21 20:38:34 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] What is the status of Congressman Yarmuth's "dear collegues" letter? Message-ID: <850258.44588.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> A while back there was a post on this list regarding congressman Yamuth's dear colleages letter. Based on my understanding, his letter was geared towards trying to secure aupport for a federal appropreation to fund a congressional commitee to study ways to improve textbook access. I called MT's lone representative and asked him to support Yamuth. The other day I was looking for the results of Yamuth's efforts, but I couldnt find it. Does anyone know how that turned out? Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 21 20:50:30 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program Message-ID: <54447.17805.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, I wanted to make sure people knbow of the Workforce Recruitment Program. The program is an effort to recruit college students with disabilities into the federal workforce. Every year, thousands of disabled students are hired through this program. From my limited knowledge of the program, recruiters visit colleges throughout the U.S. where they interview disabled students. Then their names, contact info, skills, desired position, etc are put into a national database that all federal agencies have access to. The program seems to work. Today, I got a random, out-of-the-blue phone call from the U.S. Forest Service, now I have an interview on Friday with Mount Hood NF in Oregon. I will be interviewing for a Public Affairs Specialist trainee position. If I get the job, I will spend the next two summers training to be a Public Affairs Specialist, then when the incumbent retires, I will be converted to a permant position. This is the single best chance I have had yet to "make it". Sorry I don't have more specific info on the program, but if you google it or ask your DSS director, they may have more info. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 21 21:45:10 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:45:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program References: <54447.17805.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71B78E8843C84A28992D9E82A26EBF6D@Ashley> Jim, Hope your interview with the Forest Service goes well. This sounds like a great opportunity. Yes you described WRP right. Recruiters come to select colleges and conduct interviews, the info is put in the database and last the hiring agency contacts the student. I got a job through WRP last summer at Defense contract Management agency. It was in the EEO office. That's equal employment opportunity. Unfortunately they did not give me much work to do. The pay was good but I was very disappointed they could not put my skills to work. Lots of paperwork and filing and they could not come up with nonvisual stuff for me to do. Ashley From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 21 23:06:00 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Obama urges citizens to undertake national service Message-ID: <250591.11595.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Obama urges citizens to undertake national service By ANN SANNER, Associated Press Writer Ann Sanner, Associated Press Writer 37 mins ago WASHINGTON – Calling on Americans to volunteer, President Barack Obama signed a $5.7 billion national service bill Tuesday that triples the size of the AmeriCorps service program over the next eight years and expands ways for students to earn money for college. "What this legislation does, then, is to help harness this patriotism and connect deeds to needs," said Obama, a former community organizer in Chicago. "It creates opportunities to serve for students, seniors and everyone in between," he said. "And it is just the beginning of a sustained, collaborative and focused effort to involve our greatest resource — our citizens — in the work of remaking this nation." Joining Obama was Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, who has been battling brain cancer. Kennedy championed the legislation with Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and the bill was named in honor of the Massachusetts Democrat. Kennedy told the audience that included former President Bill Clinton, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and former first lady Rosalyn Carter that Obama's efforts echoed those of his late brother, President John F. Kennedy. "Today, another young president has challenged another generation to give back to their nation," Kennedy said, citing his brother's advocacy for the Peace Corps. The service law expands ways for students and seniors to earn money for college through their volunteer work. It aims to foster and fulfill people's desire to make a difference, such as by mentoring children, cleaning up parks or buildings and weatherizing homes for the poor. "I'm asking you to help change history's course, put your shoulder up against the wheel," Obama said. "And if you do, I promise you your life will be richer, our country will be stronger, and someday, years from now, you may remember it as the moment when your own story and the American story converged, when they came together, and we met the challenges of our new century." Bolstering voluntary public service programs has been a priority of Obama, who credits his work as a community organizer in his early 20s for giving him direction in life. The president cited his work in Chicago as an example of how one person can make a difference. "All that's required on your part is a willingness to make a difference," Obama said. "And that is, after all, the beauty of service: Anybody can do it." Obama visited the SEED School of Washington, a public boarding school that serves inner-city students facing problems in both the classroom and at home, for the signing ceremony. Afterward, Obama and first lady Michelle Obama joined Clinton to plant trees at a national park site along the Anacostia River in northeast Washington. At the Kenilworth Park and Aquatic Gardens, Obama rolled up his sleeves with volunteers from the Student Conservation Association and local public high schools. "Somebody forgot my boots," Obama joked to the students. Obama on Tuesday also nominated Nike Inc. vice president Maria Eitel to lead the federal agency that oversees the country's national service programs. Eitel, who's also president of the Nike Foundation, would have to be confirmed by the Senate to become CEO of the Corporation for National and Community Service. Congress passed the bill last month with largely bipartisan support and Obama is seeking $1.1 billion to fund it next year. Some Republicans complain it is too costly and is an unnecessary intrusion by government into something Americans already do eagerly and in great numbers — helping their neighbors and communities. The legislation provides for gradually increasing the size of the Clinton-era AmeriCorps to 250,000 enrollees from its current 75,000. It outlines five broad categories where people can direct their service: helping the poor, improving education, encouraging energy efficiency, strengthening access to health care and assisting veterans. AmeriCorps offers a range of volunteer opportunities including housing construction, youth outreach, disaster response and caring for the elderly. Most receive an annual stipend of slightly less than $12,000 for working 10 months to a year. AmeriCorps has seen a recent surge in applications, according to the Corporation for National and Community Service, which oversees the program. In March, the organization received 17,038 online AmeriCorps applications, nearly double those received in the previous month and nearly triple the 6,770 received last March. Alan Solomont, who chairs AmeriCorps' board, said former President John F. Kennedy's call to service inspired more people to help others than just those who joined the Peace Corps. He said this national service legislation could produce the same effect. "It is not unlike the moment in 1960 when President Kennedy asked Americans, you know, to serve, but it is certainly going to engage millions more today," Solomont said in a conference call arranged by the White House. The bill also ties volunteer work to money for college. People 55 and older could earn $1,000 education awards by getting involved in public service. Those awards can be transferred to a child, grandchild or even someone they mentored. Students from sixth grade through senior year of high school could earn a $500 education award for helping in their neighborhoods during a new summer program. "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From JFreeh at nfb.org Tue Apr 21 23:14:51 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:14:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading Rights Coalition to Participate in LA Times Festival of Books Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Reading Rights Coalition to Participate in LA Times Festival of Books Readers with Print Disabilities Will Urge Authors to Allow Everyone Access to E-books Los Angeles, California (April 21, 2009): The Reading Rights Coalition will participate in the LA Times Festival of Books to educate authors about the need to enable text-to-speech for books available for Amazon’s Kindle 2 reading device. The LA Times Festival of Books will take place April 25–26 at the University of California at Los Angeles and the Reading Rights Coalition will be in booth #207 located in zone B. The coalition includes the blind, people with dyslexia, people with learning or processing issues, seniors losing vision, people with spinal cord injuries, people recovering from strokes, and many others for whom the addition of text-to-speech on the Kindle 2 promises for the first time easy, mainstream access to over 260,000 books. Deborah Kent, who is blind and has written over one hundred books for children and young adults, said: “As both a blind person and a writer, I understand the importance of access to books for people of all ages and using all kinds of reading methods. The inclusion of text-to-speech in e-books for the Kindle 2 will help many young people with print disabilities to gain access to books, thereby ensuring that they will receive an equal education.” Randy Shaw, who will be speaking at the Book Festival about his new book, Beyond the Fields: Cesar Chavez, the UFW, and the Struggle for Justice in the 21st Century and is the author of The Activist’s Handbook, said: “As a writer, I see e-books not as a potential threat to my rights but as a way for my work to reach a broader market. Readers who have never purchased books before because they were inaccessible will now join the book-buying public, increasing the revenue and reach of writers on every subject and in every literary genre.” Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The issue of text-to-speech in e-books for the Kindle 2 is not one of copyrights but of civil rights. The Reading Rights Coalition stands for the principle that when an individual has lawfully purchased an e-book, he or she should be able to read it in whatever medium is most suitable for him or her. This principle advances the work of writers rather than taking rights away from them, and it allows people for whom reading was either an impossibility or a chore to join the mainstream of society. We hope to persuade our friends in the literary community that it is in their best interest to make their books available with text-to-speech, but in any event we will not stop our campaign until everyone has access to e-books.” For more information about the Reading Rights Coalition, please visit www.readingrights.org. To sign our petition, go to http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/We-Want-To-Read. If you are an author who supports our cause, please send your contact information to readingrights at nfb.org. From rubyrue at socal.rr.com Tue Apr 21 23:16:21 2009 From: rubyrue at socal.rr.com (Amber Boggs) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:16:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Final CALL-TO-ACTION Package: SEND NOW! Message-ID: >I have been asked to circulate the following: Dave >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Boggs" >To: "'Rick Boggs'" >Cc: "'Amber'" ; "'Chris Snyder'" >; "'Jack Patterson'" ; "'Teri >Grossman'" >Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 7:15 AM >Subject: Final CALL-TO-ACTION Package: SEND NOW! > > >>Please spread the word. All parties interested in supporting equal access >>to education for blind students and jobs for adults with disabilities >>ought >>to receive this call to action letter and should immediately respond by >>using the "sample demand letter" as a template to contact all of the >>critical administrators and legislators who can reinstate the grants. >> >>Thanks for your help. >> >>Rick Boggs >>www.rickboggs.com >> >>Word Doc's Attached >> >>Attention Advocate: >> >>I am writing to ask you to take action on an important, time sensitive >>matter concerning education of blind students and employment of people >>with >>vision loss and other disabilities. With respect for your time, this >>summary >>will be brief and somewhat general. For more detailed information, please >>contact me directly. >> >>The federal Department of Education, DOEd, normally provides the ONLY >>funding used to make educational videos for students accessible for >>students >>who are blind. The DOEd annually funds grants which pay audio description >>producers to add audio description to educational videos, so that students >>with visual impairments will have equal access to the information. Under >>somewhat unusual circumstances, the new grants which were announced for >>2009 >>have suddenly vanished from the DOEd website. It is urgent that community >>leaders such as yourself immediately contact key Congressional >>representatives and demand that the audio description grants be >>reinstated. >>The unprecedented last minute withdrawal of the grant RFPs announced in >>December 2008 will negatively impact blind students in K-12 classrooms and >>will cost people with disabilities their jobs in media production. In >>these >>difficult times, when the Secretary of the Department of Education tells >>the >>Washington Post about the new record high funding for education that has >>been included in the economic stimulus program, why would the DOEd >>suddenly >>cut a few million dollars, effectively diminishing the quality of >>education >>for blind kids and costing people with disabilities their jobs? Some >>inexplicable politics inside the DOEd could possibly be the cause for this >>sudden, unexpected change of budget priorities, but with enough loud >>voices >>speaking up immediately, we can restore the grant program to what Congress >>intended it to be. >> >>In December 2008, the Department of Education announced that an >>application >>period for new competition grants to provide audio description for >>educational videos for blind students would begin in March 2009. At the >>last minute, in early March, the announcement suddenly disappeared. >>Ordinarily, the grant status would be posted as "canceled" if the program >>were eliminated for some reason. Whatever the cause for the last minute >>change in budget priorities, we MUST INSIST that blind students NOT be >>left >>out of the benefits realized from the newly doubled DOEd budget, now $100 >>BILLION. As a totally blind producer of audio description, I will have to >>cancel my plans to hire several blind or disabled professionals, if the >>grants are not reinstated soon. Please join me in calling, emailing, and >>writing to the legislators who can make a difference and correct this >>oversight. Please find the enclosed/attached sample letter demanding >>reinstatement of the audio description grants and requesting an >>investigation into the DOEd procedures that lead to this destructive >>decision. Contact information for key legislators is also provided for >>your >>convenience. I am asking that you specifically contact the Secretary of >>Education, Arne Duncan, the Assistant Secretary of Education, Andrew J. >>Pepin, and the chair of the House Committee on Education and Labor, George >>Miller. We should also send an email to the Special Assistant to the >>President on Disability Policy, Kareem Dale (who is also blind). Please >>find the enclosed list of House Representatives to facilitate contacting >>your local Representative as well. DOEd information about the grants in >>question is included below, along with contact info for the individuals >>previously mentioned. >> >>Thank you for your immediate action supporting this effort to reinstate >>new >>competition grants for audio description of educational materials for >>students with visual impairments. >> >>Sincerely, >>Rick Boggs >>Mobile: 818-439-9698 >>www.rickboggs.com >>www.AccessibleClassroomVideos.org >>Postal: >>9250 Reseda Blvd #2b-107 >>Northridge, CA 91324 >> >> >>DOEd Grant Details: >>The following information was listed on the Department of Education's >>Forecast of >>Funding Opportunities. >>Program Office: >>Office of Special Education Programs (OSEP) >>CFDA Number: 84.327 >>Program Type: Discretionary/Competitive Grants, Contracts, Cooperative >>Agreements >>Also Known As: >>Technology and Media Services for Individuals with Disabilities; also >>known >>as Special >>Education-Technology Development, Demonstration, and Utilization; Media >>Services; >>and Instructional Materials. >>PROGRAM DESCRIPTION >>The purpose of this program is to: (1) improve results for children with >>disabilities >>by promoting the development, demonstration, and use of technology; (2) >>support educational >>media services activities designed to be of value in the classroom setting >>to children >>with disabilities; and (3) provide support for captioning and video >>description that >>is appropriate for use in the classroom setting. >>TYPES OF PROJECTS >>This program supports technology development, demonstration, and >>utilization. Educational >>media activities, such as video descriptions and captioning of educational >>materials, >>also are supported. >> >>KEY Contact Information: >>U.S. Department of Education: Promoting Educational Excellence for all >>Americans >> >>Secretary, U.S. Department of Education >>ARNE DUNCAN >>First Name: ARNE >>Last Name: DUNCAN >>Primary Phone: (202) 401-3000 >>Principal Office: (OS) Office of the Secretary >>Department of Education Organizational Structure and Offices >>E-Mail Address: >>arne.duncan at ed.gov >>Location >>Region: HEADQUARTERS >>Building Name: LBJ EDUCATION BUILDING >>Building Address: 400 Maryland Avenue, SW, Washington, DC 20202 >>Room Number: 7W311 >> >>Assistant Secretary, U.S. Department of Education >>ANDREW JOSEPH PEPIN >>First Name: ANDREW >>Middle Name: J. >>Last Name: PEPIN >>Primary Phone: (202) 245-7632 >>Principal Office: (OSERS) Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative >>Services >>Department of Education Organizational Structure and Offices >>E-Mail Address: >>Andrew.Pepin at ed.gov >>Location >>Region: HEADQUARTERS >>Building Name: POTOMAC CENTER PLAZA >>Building Address: 550 12th Street, SW, Washington, DC 20202 >>Room Number: 5106 >> >>The Honorable George Miller Chair >>Committee on Education and Labor >>Office Phone: (202) 225-2095 >>Email form on website: >>http://georgemiller.house.gov/ >>2181 Rayburn House Office Building >>United States House of Representatives >>Washington, D.C. 20515 >> >>Kareem Dale >>Disabilities Consultant to the President >>Email: Kareem_A._Dale at who.eop.gov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DOEd Call To Action.rtf Type: application/rtf Size: 21813 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DOEd Sample Demand Letter.rtf Type: application/rtf Size: 8202 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: House of representatives.doc Type: application/msword Size: 330240 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 02:29:57 2009 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:29:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Actor Sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh man! If it was only a woman and a younger age, I would do it in a heartbeat! My passion is acting and I am going to pursue it in the next year. I'm currently in my school's play "Around the World in Eighty Days" and have done quite a few plays for other theatres. My real passion is for voice acting, but I'm willing to take almost anything right now. If someone ever needs a young female actress for anything, please e-mail me and I will do whatever I can to do it! ~Franandah On 4/21/09, Riccobono, Mark wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: bkmabma at yahoo.com [mailto:bkmabma at yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Steve Handschuh; Riccobono, Mark; McCarthy, Jim > Subject: Blind Actor needed > > Do we have someone interested in something like this? > > From: Marie Ullrich [mailto:marie.ullrich at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:54 AM > Subject: Re: graduate student's thesis film > > > > Hello , > > .... > > So, regarding finding an actor for the film who is blind - I'm going to > hold another round of auditions very soon. I don't know how you'd get > the word out, but here is a description of the character who is blind - > and anyone who is interested can email me their headshot (or current > photo) and acting resume, and for the audition I ask for a contemporary > dramatic monologue. The shoot dates are May 30th - June 7th. There is no > pay (I'm funding the film out of my own pocket), and there will be > probably 5 or more hours of rehearsal before the shoot. I'm really only > interested in local actors. > > PAUL SHERMAN > Caucasian. Late 30's to early 40's. Tall, brunette or greying and / or > curly hair. Paul is fully blind. He and his sister Nancy came from an > affluent if not wealthy family in a medium sized city. Now Paul runs his > own non-profit agency and is less affluent, but he cares deeply about > the work he does. > > Beyond that, I wonder if you might have a student at Columbia might like > to write a press release for the film. I have a list of bullet points > that I'd like to be included but I don't really know how to shape it > myself. I guess I could take a stab at writing it, but it only occurred > to me while talking to you Friday that maybe you might have an ace > student who you could recommend? The press release would go on my > website (which is under construction) and in all Press / Marketing > packets associated with the film. > > Hope I'm not asking too much! It was fantastic meeting you. Hope you > had a great weekend despite the rain. > > Best regards, > > Marie Ullrich > P.S. I should have mentioned, but Marie is pronounced like Calamari or > Sari. Sometimes I get embarrassed about my name because it sounds > pretentious so I kind of go by anything that starts with an M and is in > the right ballpark. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Apr 22 02:50:42 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:50:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program In-Reply-To: <54447.17805.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <54447.17805.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c9c2f5$20be7aa0$623b6fe0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Good luck with the interview, Jim! That's great news! -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:51 PM To: MAB List; NABS mail list Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program Hey all, I wanted to make sure people knbow of the Workforce Recruitment Program. The program is an effort to recruit college students with disabilities into the federal workforce. Every year, thousands of disabled students are hired through this program. From my limited knowledge of the program, recruiters visit colleges throughout the U.S. where they interview disabled students. Then their names, contact info, skills, desired position, etc are put into a national database that all federal agencies have access to. The program seems to work. Today, I got a random, out-of-the-blue phone call from the U.S. Forest Service, now I have an interview on Friday with Mount Hood NF in Oregon. I will be interviewing for a Public Affairs Specialist trainee position. If I get the job, I will spend the next two summers training to be a Public Affairs Specialist, then when the incumbent retires, I will be converted to a permant position. This is the single best chance I have had yet to "make it". Sorry I don't have more specific info on the program, but if you google it or ask your DSS director, they may have more info. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From liamskitten at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 03:37:58 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:37:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program In-Reply-To: <71B78E8843C84A28992D9E82A26EBF6D@Ashley> References: <54447.17805.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <71B78E8843C84A28992D9E82A26EBF6D@Ashley> Message-ID: <7949e5e20904212037t7d48641cm5209e8a11f61c108@mail.gmail.com> Jim, Best of luck with your interview! Courtney On 4/21/09, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Jim, > Hope your interview with the Forest Service goes well. This sounds like a > great opportunity. Yes you described WRP right. Recruiters come to select > colleges and conduct interviews, the info is put in the database and last > the hiring agency contacts the student. > I got a job through WRP last summer at Defense contract Management agency. > It was in the EEO office. That's equal employment opportunity. > Unfortunately they did not give me much work to do. The pay was good but I > was very disappointed they could not put my skills to work. Lots of > paperwork and filing and they could not come up with nonvisual stuff for me > to do. > > Ashley > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 04:08:45 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:08:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? In-Reply-To: <99BBB82596F84B6DB95A554BF713B7B9@Ashley> Message-ID: <8F0064BC4C114D6E80625826AD6D379D@Rufus> Ashley, I agree that self-disclosure should occur at the point of interview. I am by no means advocating that a person should hide their condition, only that it be treated like any other characteristic and use the interview as a time to touch on the subject before moving on to other more pertinent skills. Sarah, Unintentional disclosure of blindness in the job entries of a resume does not have to be a negative point against you. There are sighted staff that work at the National Center for the Blind in Baltimore who would add their employment at the Center to their resumes. A future employer may see the entry and wonder why the person was working at a blindness-related organization, but then this is an opportunity for you to use the cover letter to help balance the employer's view of what it is you have to offer, leaving the point about your own blindness condition a mere point of curiosity. The issue of scholarships is another matter. If you feel they would enhance your likelihood of being hired by an employer, by all means include the item. Mentioning your having won an NFB national scholarship may increase your chances of being hired at one of the summer training centers. Otherwise, whether or not you obtained a scholarship will generally not make or break a potential interview offer, with the possible exception of the Fulbright, Rhode or other highly prestigious and well known opportunities. I would focus instead on awards you may have earned from a scholastic activity such as debate, honors society, dean's list, etc. Jim, The only point with which I take issue in your response is that of your perceived dishonesty with the employer at the point you do not mention your blindness in your initial contact. As I previously said to Ashley, I never advocated a case for lying about or hiding your blindness. Rather, I said the point is a non-issue, because an interview should be granted on whether your qualifications meet the vacancy requirements, not on whether or not you can see. I would hope that a blind applicant would not apply for an opening for which they know they are not qualified and still throw in the point about having a disability. Why stack up the odds against yourself? But, more to the point, finding a job is a test of competence under the best of circumstances. In the current economy it is exceptionally important to maintain control of the process as best as you can and minimize risks that may set your application aside. It may not be fair to presume people will reject an applicant on disability alone, but nor is it fair that more than 70 percent of blind people are unemployed. You're competing against that 70 percent as well as every member of the general public who may stumble upon the vacancy announcement. It's time to market yourself in the most positive light possible, at least until some distant future when blindness is not seen as the debilitating condition it is seen today. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:08 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? Hi Joe, I think job readiness is something nabs should put into its agenda more like at student seminars. Yes its hard to teach resume building and interview skills. Your campus career center can help out though. Mine has workshops on topics and I plan to go to them or you can sit down privately with a staff member and they can critique your resume. Interviewing is a learning experience for everyone and I've heard applicants get better over time. As to disclosure, I agree it should not be in the cover letter or resume. However, I think disclosing before or during the interview is fine. Jim did the right thing by disclosing. He cannot drive and that is essential to the job. The employer cannot accomodate him if he is not upfront and honest about his condition. While blindness should not be the central point of the interview, explaining how you do things may put them at ease. For instance if they ask about your communication skills, you can say something like "During meetings I took notes with my Braille Note and my notes allowed me to carry out my responsibilities after the meeting." This is a personal thing and no two blind people will handle it the same way. But that's some of my opinion. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > Jim, > > I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should > incorporate job readiness into its operation. That's part of a longer > dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over. For now > I'll > offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation. > > Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never > easy, > blind or sighted. People, including myself, will give you a list of do's > and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, > your > strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for > yourself. No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share > the > same views about what disability means for their expectations of the > vacancy > in question. > > It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the > EEOC and all things special accommodations. Some people I've met become > so > infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so > obsessed > with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to > meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself. I think it's > important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you > allow yourself to become a textbook operator. I think people run the risk > of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education > to > be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential > employer and from the perspective of the applicant. > >>From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for > having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your > abilities. If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could > pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime > you're > still without a job. My personal take on the subject is that you had > better > be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain > at all. Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring > standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you > as > the applicant as well as the offending company. While the legal > proceedings > are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how > to > engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your > disability. > > So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA. > Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do > rather than what it could do. Understand the relationship between > yourself > and the potential employer. When you're applying for a job, you're asking > to be allowed to be a member of their team. Unnecessary emphasis on laws > and regulations does not make you a team player. It makes you a potential > liability. Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but > never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations. > There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a > well-spent half hour. What is harder to teach is resume building, > interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the > basic > human interaction involved in these interviews. > > My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have > previously held and am currently pursuing. If it's a blindness-related > job, > it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be > a > direct benefit to the organization's mission. Otherwise, there is no > reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume. Some people balk at > this idea. The thought process is that stating the fact that you are > blind > only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite > your being blind. > > My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is > confidence. An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point. A > confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by > themselves. If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is > only > a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a > noteworthy point of interest in my credentials. The hiring manager need > not > know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or > Hispanic or six feet tall. Does this make things awkward when you first > meet the interviewer? Things are going to be awkward with or without > advance notice. The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a > deal you make of your blindness. Writing in your cover letter or resume > that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them > decide > how big of a deal it is to them. When you hunt for a job, you cannot > afford > to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will > overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases. Keep control of > the > deck of cards as long as you can. > > Now, to your specific situation. You do not have to respond to these > points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field > of > interest? What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume > that makes you stand out from the other candidates? Are there internships > offered by way of the agency you have applied to? What did you learn from > your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change > about it as you move forward into your next potential interview? > > When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the > notion > of volunteer service was emphasized. Many people get so overwhelmed by > their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of > national > service as a means to jump start their career. Yes, it may postpone that > first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your > network, > your skills and familiarity with the field in question. You may very well > figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected. > > But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn > about going into public land management. If this is true, this is me > smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it. Do not be > discouraged. What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your > visual abilities. I'm reading your post about those things you can do > with > the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore. Which > is it? Either you can do something or you cannot. At some point you're > going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile > according to those things you are completely confident about. If you're > waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something > you > cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half > as > cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire > yourself? > So you can't drive. Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or > so > developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire > you > despite this fact. > > In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use > course I was obligated to take from our geography department. I hated it, > because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods. I honestly had no idea > there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical > street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch. I can > see > how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to > get > from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I > could > to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final > report. > > Keep a portfolio. Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have > had a hand at producing. Draw their attention away from the logistics and > put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself. You're > a > bad ass if they figure out how to get you there. You convince me from the > way you express yourself about it. Now go out and convince them. > > I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about > doing > what you want to do. I did not have to get far in my class that long ago > spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land > manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field. Are there > any > associations you could join? > > Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to > you, and I love those 6 p's. If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let > me include that on our web site. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed > Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series? > > Hello, > I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a > job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be > helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting > together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most > effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I > don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything > about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me, > or how I can use them to my advantage. > > I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and > advocates to host webinars geared toward disabuility > employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be: > 1. Reasonable accomidations > 2. Disability law > 3. disclosure stratagies > 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5. > Other employment resources > > These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my > head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the > NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and > it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their > education. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4019 (20090418) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookworm ahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4023 (20090420) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4026 (20090421) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 04:24:02 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 00:24:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Companies that hire people working from home Message-ID: Who Hires Home-based Workers? Patrick Erwin, CareerBuilder.com writer In the last few years, working from home has gone from being a rarity to a reality. With advances in technology, more people are able to link to work from their home computers or laptops. And as employees continue to crave flexibility and yearn for a better work/life balance, more people are working from home for at least part of their workweek. Home-based companies While many companies are allowing existing employees to transition to various telecommuting options, some companies are also building work forces that are made up solely of employees working from home. Here is a sample of 10 companies that only hire at-home workers: . Alpine Access is a call center company that uses customer service representatives that work from home. Employees use their own telephones and computers. The company provides representatives for clients like Office Depot and J. Crew. . Convergys hires home-based call center agents who provide support in customer service, and also supplies sales agents or help desk staff for companies. . Extended Presence provides their clients with outbound sales agents and marketing support staff who work from home. . Internet Girl Friday provides information technology support as well as administrative services for clients nationwide. . LiveOps provides customer service support for a variety of major corporations. . Spheris provides support to medical professionals. Their services include medical transcription and clinical documentation. . Staffcentrix supplies virtual assistants for business clients, including CEOs and upper management of major corporations. . VIPDesk provides call center support and also offers a home-based concierge service to clients. . Voicelog provides representatives to perform verifications for transactions done online or by telephone. Many states require changes to telephone service and other remote transactions to be verified by a third party, which VoiceLog provides. . West At Home also hires home-based customer service agents. They cater to a specific range of industries, specializing in health care and pharmaceutical support, as well as the hospitality industry. Employees need to meet some basic requirements, including having a telephone and access to a PC. Although the work is conducted from home, interviews for the job aren't always done remotely. Working at home is a growing and legitimate opportunity, but workers should still beware of any job that asks you to invest money, provide access to a bank account or give up a great deal of personal information up front. These are indicators of a possible scam. Traditional companies with home-based workers Some traditional companies also have home-based workers in the mix as part of their overall staffing strategies. Companies as diverse as American Airlines, TDS Telecom, 1-800-FLOWERS, Sprint and Xerox have programs that enable traditional workers to transition to telecommuting or hire workers specifically to work at home. Aetna is one of the companies that has developed and implemented such a program. "Our telework program started as a grassroots initiative to keep talented employees when there were site consolidations." Aetna Telework Program Head Eileen Levin explains. The program, which started only a few years ago, has become very popular with employees. Levin notes that since the inception of the program, participation has jumped 300 percent. Around 10,000 Aetna employees, or 27 percent of the company's work force, now work from home. Levin says that the company looks at several factors before transitioning a job or task to be done at home. Aetna ensures that the employee is an appropriate candidate to work at home. It also confirms that the home office is a stable, business-friendly environment. And most importantly, Aetna carefully considers whether the job is an appropriate choice to be performed by home-based workers. Children's Healthcare of Atlanta is another company that is mixing traditional workers with employees who work from home. These home-based employees include medical transcriptionists and nurses who operate the hospital's Advice Line, a hotline where Laurie Peterson, one of the Advice Line nurses, has been working for CHOA from home for 11 years. She takes calls that vary from minor questions to emergency situations, and provides callers with a recommended course of action based on their conversations. Peterson says, "I really enjoy being able to use my nursing judgement and experience right here in the convenience of my own home. We get inquiries from people both locally and all over the world seeking help with their child's health problems. At the end of a shift, it's very fulfilling for me to know I've helped allay a parent's fears." If you're a worker who wants to transition from commuting to the office to working at home, talk to your company. Think about these discussion points before approaching your boss: . Talk to the company about how offering this option to you and other employees will benefit them. Money talks, so be sure to refer to any potential savings the company will see by implementing this program. With gas prices at a record high, you should also underscore your savings, as well as the environmental benefits of working from home. . Not every job or every process can be done from home, so be ready with a plan. Identify jobs and transactions at the company that can be done easily, safely and securely from home Patrick Erwin is a writer and blogger for CareerBuilder.com. He researches and writes about job search strategy, career management, hiring trends and workplace issues. From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 22 06:38:16 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <348316.58180.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, I'm just throwing this out there for something to think about. I was writing a letter earlier today, first, I originally wrote, "... my disability...", then I erased it and wrote "...my blindness..." . Is there a fundamental/philosophical difference between the two? After I experienced that, I thought it was interesting, and theirfore worth sharing Hummmm....? Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Apr 22 09:36:42 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 05:36:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <20090422093642.13206.11108@web2.serotek.com> Jim, For the most part, i don't necessarily think that exchanging one word for the other makes a lot of difference since blindness is a disability and since disabilities of any kind tend to create a knee-jerk reaction from the public. On the other hand, blindness is probably one of the most stigmatized types of disability. If nothing else, it's certainly the most mythicized and romanticized perhaps second only to mental illness. I personally prefer to say "my blindness" because I feel a strong bond with the NFB culture, history, and the overall experience of blindness as a minority group. I'm proud of my herritage and so therefore feel no shame in mentioning it. That's just me. Original message: > Hey all, > I'm just throwing this out there for something to think about. > I was writing a letter earlier today, first, I originally wrote, "... > my disability...", then I erased it and wrote "...my blindness..." . > Is there a fundamental/philosophical difference between the two? > After I experienced that, I thought it was interesting, and theirfore > worth sharing > Hummmm....? > Jim > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 11:22:44 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:22:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program References: <54447.17805.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><71B78E8843C84A28992D9E82A26EBF6D@Ashley> <7949e5e20904212037t7d48641cm5209e8a11f61c108@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005301c9c33c$a8f71930$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> good luck! Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Workforce Recruitment Program > Jim, > > Best of luck with your interview! > Courtney > > On 4/21/09, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Jim, >> Hope your interview with the Forest Service goes well. This sounds like >> a >> great opportunity. Yes you described WRP right. Recruiters come to >> select >> colleges and conduct interviews, the info is put in the database and last >> the hiring agency contacts the student. >> I got a job through WRP last summer at Defense contract Management >> agency. >> It was in the EEO office. That's equal employment opportunity. >> Unfortunately they did not give me much work to do. The pay was good but >> I >> was very disappointed they could not put my skills to work. Lots of >> paperwork and filing and they could not come up with nonvisual stuff for >> me >> to do. >> >> Ashley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Apr 22 15:57:06 2009 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 11:57:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? References: <348316.58180.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1BE4F7A73FC74523B6949AC352BA2FFB@nbp2.local> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major life function, sight. Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, but I am unequivocally disabled. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed Apr 22 17:17:13 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:17:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] U.S. Senators John Kerry and Arlen Specter Introduce Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org />U.S. Senators John Kerry and Arlen Specter Introduce Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act National Federation of the Blind Applauds Measure to Protect Lives and Preserve Independence of Blind Americans Washington, DC (April 22, 2009): Senators John Kerry (D-MA) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) introduced a bill, S. 841, intended to protect the blind and other pedestrians from injury or death as a result of silent vehicle technology. The Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2009 requires the Secretary of Transportation to conduct a study on how to protect the blind and others from being injured or killed by vehicles using hybrid, electric, and other silent engine technologies. Because blind pedestrians cannot locate and evaluate traffic using their vision, they must listen to traffic to discern its speed, direction, and other attributes in order to travel safely and independently. Other people, including pedestrians who are not blind, bicyclists, runners, and small children, also benefit from hearing the sound of vehicle engines. New vehicles that employ hybrid or electric engine technology can be silent, rendering them extremely dangerous in situations where vehicles and pedestrians come into proximity with each other. “The National Federation of the Blind appreciates the wise and decisive action taken today by Senators Kerry and Specter to preserve the right to safe and independent travel for the blind,” said Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind. “The blind, like all pedestrians, must be able to travel to work, to school, to church, and to other places in our communities without being injured or killed. This bill will benefit all pedestrians for generations to come as new vehicle technologies become more prevalent. The blind of America will do everything in our power to ensure its swift passage.” “I’m a major proponent of hybrid vehicles––I own one, I drive one, and I've seen firsthand their environmental and economic benefits,” said Senator Kerry. “The market is demanding new technologies in the auto industry, and Americans are demanding we finally kick our foreign oil addiction. As we continue to promote our energy independence, however, we must do more to ensure the safety of those who use senses other than sight to navigate the roads. I look forward to working with Secretary LaHood to ensure that hybrid vehicles are safe for everyone.” “Blind people have the same right to safe travel as all other pedestrians,” said Senator Specter. “I look forward to working with my colleagues on this important legislation to ensure that the blind and other pedestrians can continue to travel safely and independently.” ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From dandrews at visi.com Wed Apr 22 17:20:49 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:20:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Access to Copyrighted Works for the Blind Comment Period Extended Message-ID: Copyright Office Copyright Office Extends Filing Period for Comments and Reply Comments The Copyright Office and United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) are extending the period to file initial comments and reply comments in connection with the "Notice of Inquiry and Request for Comments on the Topic of Facilitating Access to Copyrighted Works for the Blind or Other Persons with Disabilities." The Copyright Office and USPTO published the Notice of Inquiry on March 26, 2009, and a Supplemental Notice on April 17, 2009. Initial comments were due on April 21, 2009. The deadline has been extended to April 28, 2009, at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time (EST). Reply comments were due on May 4, 2009. The deadline has been extended to May 12, 2009, at 5:00 PM Eastern Standard Time (EST). www.copyright.gov/docs/sccr/comments/. David Andrews and white cane Harry. From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 22 17:42:26 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 10:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] As finals approach, remember to relax, Things could be worse... Message-ID: <36397.53261.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> http://www.kevin.roussel.com/images/Jokes/Things%20can%20get%20worse.jpg "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From mworkman at ualberta.ca Wed Apr 22 18:50:04 2009 From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:50:04 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <1BE4F7A73FC74523B6949AC352BA2FFB@nbp2.local> Message-ID: An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, I suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some of you. Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified in the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, Disabilities, and Handicaps. In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed on impairments by certain social arrangements. Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than me with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not significantly impact on their lives. I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of these things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while since I read his work. I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law were a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled in order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, then I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet another example of how social arrangements are disabling. I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a quotation taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the position I've outlined. The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical nuisance. In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance (i.e., a neutral characteristic). Best, Marc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major life function, sight. Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, but I am unequivocally disabled. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. ca From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Apr 22 19:08:09 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:08:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] graduation ceremony Message-ID: <3DCA4044D7D349A5B4B18887E4240133@Ashley> Hi all, I think this has been discussed before, but don't know when. I will go to my college's graduation ceremony to recieve my diploma. As you know normally you walk single file and sit down in some order and graduates line up by the stage and walk as their name is called. What accomodations did you have? I am debating whether to have a guide. Its a big stage and I'll be nervous but I think a guide will take away from my moment. In high school I used the student beside me as a guide to and from the stage. The time I was walking, I did so alone. They offered me a guide but I felt I did not need it. What did you do? Thanks. Ashley From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 19:18:53 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 15:18:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] For blind music majors Message-ID: <005601c9c37f$2ddd23a0$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Title: Summer Braille Music Institute for Students Who Are Blind and Visually Impaired: Registration Deadline May 14 Do you know of a blind high school or college music student looking for ways to deal with theory and music reading? The National Resource Center for Blind Musicians is taking applications for its one-week Summer Braille Music Institute, which provides individualized help to students needing to master these challenges. The Center also provides year-round distance learning opportunities and answers questions related to braille music and special technology. The institute will be held at Overbrook School in the Philadelphia area, July 19-25. Deadline for applications is May 14, 2009. To learn more, visit www.blindmusicstudent.org for general information, or to request an application for this year's Institute. By the way, the National Resource Center for Blind Musicians is a great resource for teachers and parents as well. Rania, From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 22 21:29:38 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:29:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom text question Message-ID: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, I use Zoom Text. Within ZoomText, I have customized some settings (mouse pointer and color schemes), yet everytime I close (not disable) zoomtext, or restart my computer, I lose all of those customizations, and I have to go back and set them up all over again. Is there any way to set up Zoom text so that it remembers my custom settings? Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Apr 22 22:57:33 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:57:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] graduation ceremony References: <3DCA4044D7D349A5B4B18887E4240133@Ashley> Message-ID: <009e01c9c39d$b9851c00$0301a8c0@Serene> Hi Ashley Let me first say I absolutely don't use or condone sighted guide, unless it's absolutely necessary! I used a sighted guide at my graduation. I don't really think it took much away from my moment, but more power to you if you think you don't need one. I think sighted guide is all right, as long as you ask for it and think it's really necessary. I also think it's ok if you think that, if you don't use it in a particular situation, the powers that be may ask you to do something else that's really inappropriate. In my case, the DSS person wanted me to sit in a separate location reserved for people with disabilities. I refused! Even if I didn't need a guide for assistance, which I really did, I still would've used it, sacrificing my independence, as a compromise, so the DSS person wouldn't win, as far as making me sit in a separate location. One last instance in which sighted guide is ok is in a crowded place and when the person who suggests that you use it is acting in good faith, E.G. your friend from college who may just so happen to have a disability of his/her own, who knows you don't want to use it, but suggests it cuz of the crowd. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:08 PM Subject: [nabs-l] graduation ceremony > Hi all, > I think this has been discussed before, but don't know when. I will go to > my college's graduation ceremony to recieve my diploma. As you know > normally you walk single file and sit down in some order and graduates > line up by the stage and walk as their name is called. > What accomodations did you have? I am debating whether to have a guide. > Its a big stage and I'll be nervous but I think a guide will take away > from my moment. > > In high school I used the student beside me as a guide to and from the > stage. The time I was walking, I did so alone. They offered me a guide > but I felt I did not need it. > What did you do? > > Thanks. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 23:28:21 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:28:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? References: Message-ID: If any of you get the chance, I'd highly recommend the book: Disabling America: The Unintended Consequences of the Government's Protection of the Handicapped by Greg Perry It will really make you think about the ADA and the disability movement in a whole different way. If any of you are signed up with the NLS Digital talking book pilot download site, it is available there. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, > I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified > in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of > Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait > or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social > contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are > imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than > me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect > to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of > these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while > since > I read his work. > > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but > that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law > were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled > in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, > then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a > quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real > problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a > physical > nuisance. > > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, > we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Apr 22 23:50:00 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:50:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <20090422235000.17834.25768@web1.serotek.com> Mark, I totally agree except I'm not a fan of the word "impairment" in this context since "impairment" has been used to subjegate the blind through professional jargain, especially by way of delegating different roles to some of us with some sight and to others with none. I also note that "impairment" denotes "worse." I think of blindness more as a characteristic outside of the norm rather than an impairment.. that's just me though. Other than that, I agree whole-heartedly with what you have to say as I'm a student of disability studies. Though the aDA was meant to open social opportunities to disabled persons, the term itself is largely defined by the medical model. Original message: > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while since > I read his work. > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical > nuisance. > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > Best, > Marc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Apr 22 23:51:28 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:51:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom text question Message-ID: <20090422235128.13457.42575@web1.serotek.com> Jim, There should be a way to enable your settings at startup. You may find a way to keep your settings in the magnifyer tab, or you can find it int eh settings menu under "general" or something to that affect. It's been a while since I've worked with ZoomText, but that's what I remember. Original message: > Hello all, > I use Zoom Text. Within ZoomText, I have customized some settings > (mouse pointer and color schemes), yet everytime I close (not disable) > zoomtext, or restart my computer, I lose all of those customizations, > and I have to go back and set them up all over again. Is there any way > to set up Zoom text so that it remembers my custom settings? > Thanks, > Jim > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 00:17:45 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:17:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Call to Service Message-ID: <1210A295738F4D35B595BC9BCC5819D3@Rufus> Dear students: In light of the recent discussion surrounding employment, and given the extraordinary reputation Ms. Buna Dahl will bring to the employment seminar at National Convention, Peter Donahue has inquired into whether or not the seminar can be recorded. He has been told the seminar may be recorded, but now the ball is in your court. It is your responsibility to find among you someone with the expertise and equipment to make the recording possible. I have previously said my management of the web site would conclude on June 30, but I will remain on hand to specifically work with Peter to make that recording available via NABSLink to all persons who were unable to attend the National Convention. For our part there are other developments going into NABSLink, and in general it is a good practice to be able to rely upon the general membership for such volunteer service. If you're interested, take charge of the project. We need not be contacted except to process the final product. I hope the people who expressed an interest in seeing job readiness being incorporated into NABS will be first to jump at the opportunity to play a role in making what promises to be an excellent seminar available to people after the fact. In essence, this is a good time to stop talking and start acting. It is only through this higher level of expectation that we will begin to enjoy results on multiple fronts. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4029 (20090422) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Apr 23 00:59:23 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:59:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Call to Service In-Reply-To: <1210A295738F4D35B595BC9BCC5819D3@Rufus> References: <1210A295738F4D35B595BC9BCC5819D3@Rufus> Message-ID: <000001c9c3ae$bea80ce0$3bf826a0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Wow! This is great! Does it have to be professional equipment? I just have the recorder I use in lectures ... -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:18 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Call to Service Dear students: In light of the recent discussion surrounding employment, and given the extraordinary reputation Ms. Buna Dahl will bring to the employment seminar at National Convention, Peter Donahue has inquired into whether or not the seminar can be recorded. He has been told the seminar may be recorded, but now the ball is in your court. It is your responsibility to find among you someone with the expertise and equipment to make the recording possible. I have previously said my management of the web site would conclude on June 30, but I will remain on hand to specifically work with Peter to make that recording available via NABSLink to all persons who were unable to attend the National Convention. For our part there are other developments going into NABSLink, and in general it is a good practice to be able to rely upon the general membership for such volunteer service. If you're interested, take charge of the project. We need not be contacted except to process the final product. I hope the people who expressed an interest in seeing job readiness being incorporated into NABS will be first to jump at the opportunity to play a role in making what promises to be an excellent seminar available to people after the fact. In essence, this is a good time to stop talking and start acting. It is only through this higher level of expectation that we will begin to enjoy results on multiple fronts. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4029 (20090422) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From iamantonio at cox.net Thu Apr 23 01:33:38 2009 From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:33:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? References: Message-ID: <2AF3D5DF18DB4C15AF2CCD206F5507FE@userf9b4fa60eb> Marc, I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a physical descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. Antonio Guimaraes If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, > I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified > in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of > Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait > or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social > contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are > imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than > me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect > to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of > these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while > since > I read his work. > > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but > that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law > were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled > in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, > then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a > quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real > problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a > physical > nuisance. > > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, > we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 23 01:59:42 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:59:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Companies that hire stay at home workers Message-ID: <527872.56130.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Check out the link. http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2009/02/11/companies-that-hire-part-time-workers/?ncid=AOLCOMMjobsDYNLprim0001 "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From arielle71 at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 03:33:06 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:33:06 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS State Division Contacts Message-ID: Hello NABsters, On our Web site, www.nabslink.org there is a page containing contact information for state student division presidents (the page titled "State Divisions". If you are a student division president or appointed student contact in your state, please check to be sure your information is correct. If the information for your state is incorrect or outdated, or if your state isn't listed and you'd like to have your name down as a student contact/president, please email Joe Orozco at jsorozco at gmail.com Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, NABS From habnkid at aol.com Thu Apr 23 03:45:52 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:45:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom text question In-Reply-To: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49EFE470.5010209@aol.com> In ZoomText, go to File. Then under File, select the option that says Save As Default. That should do it. best, Haben Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > I use Zoom Text. Within ZoomText, I have customized some settings (mouse pointer and color schemes), yet everytime I close (not disable) zoomtext, or restart my computer, I lose all of those customizations, and I have to go back and set them up all over again. Is there any way to set up Zoom text so that it remembers my custom settings? > > Thanks, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From habnkid at aol.com Thu Apr 23 03:52:43 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:52:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom text question In-Reply-To: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49EFE60B.8020506@aol.com> You can also set ZoomText to automatically save the current settings whenever you're exiting ZoomText. That way, ZoomText will always start with the settings you used last. Here's how you do that: On the menu bar, click Settings. Under Settings click Program. Now a dialog box appears with checkboxes. Under the section that says Exit Settings, check the box next to "Save ZoomText Settings Automatically when exiting." Haben Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > I use Zoom Text. Within ZoomText, I have customized some settings (mouse pointer and color schemes), yet everytime I close (not disable) zoomtext, or restart my computer, I lose all of those customizations, and I have to go back and set them up all over again. Is there any way to set up Zoom text so that it remembers my custom settings? > > Thanks, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 23 04:07:06 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:07:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Call to Service References: <1210A295738F4D35B595BC9BCC5819D3@Rufus> <000001c9c3ae$bea80ce0$3bf826a0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <003501c9c3c8$f8a50690$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, We need to have as high-quality recordings we can get to post on the Web site. This is best achieved by using high-end digital recording equipment that can be plugged in to the sound system in the meeting room to obtain the best possible audio quality. This can be done by connecting a laptop with digital-audio recording software installed on it or a portable digital recorder to the sound system to capture the audio signal being sent out to the meeting room. The files created of the seminar sessions would then be edited to removed unwanted material and audio anomalies. Several processes are then run on the files to further improve their audio quality before they're posted to the Web site. It would also be possible to extract specific presentations for those wishing to hear a particular speaker or panel. Do we have any aspiring photographers, videographers , secretaries, or transcribers on the list? The NABS Link Web Site could use more pictures and video content in addition to what is all ready there. If there are those who davvle in photography or who produce video your help will be very much appreciated. As for the secretaries and transcribers on the list text transcripts of the seminar presentations could also be produced and posted to the Web site making them available to those unable to access audio content. We can supply you with presentations of interest you could transcribe to produce text versions of this valuable information. And here's the best part of all! Remember that helping NABS create content for its Web Site can count for volunteer experiences or perhaps earn you class credit. You could assist in creating new and exciting content for your division Web site and beef up your resumes as well. Please consider Joe's plea for assistance with this project and let him know how you can help. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Call to Service Wow! This is great! Does it have to be professional equipment? I just have the recorder I use in lectures ... -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 8:18 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Call to Service Dear students: In light of the recent discussion surrounding employment, and given the extraordinary reputation Ms. Buna Dahl will bring to the employment seminar at National Convention, Peter Donahue has inquired into whether or not the seminar can be recorded. He has been told the seminar may be recorded, but now the ball is in your court. It is your responsibility to find among you someone with the expertise and equipment to make the recording possible. I have previously said my management of the web site would conclude on June 30, but I will remain on hand to specifically work with Peter to make that recording available via NABSLink to all persons who were unable to attend the National Convention. For our part there are other developments going into NABSLink, and in general it is a good practice to be able to rely upon the general membership for such volunteer service. If you're interested, take charge of the project. We need not be contacted except to process the final product. I hope the people who expressed an interest in seeing job readiness being incorporated into NABS will be first to jump at the opportunity to play a role in making what promises to be an excellent seminar available to people after the fact. In essence, this is a good time to stop talking and start acting. It is only through this higher level of expectation that we will begin to enjoy results on multiple fronts. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4029 (20090422) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From habnkid at aol.com Thu Apr 23 04:26:23 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:26:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49EFEDEF.1010104@aol.com> With that argument, everyone has characteristics that at times become disabling. For instance, red hair is just a characteristic. However, if an actress with red hair auditions for a play where the director expresses a wish for his characters to all have black hair, then the redhead is temporarily disabled. There are things she can do about it, though. There's a line to be drawn. Some characteristics will place you in a disabled position more often than others. We could argue that red hair and blindness are both characteristics. However, blindness puts one in a disabled position far more often than red hair ever would in this society. Perhaps that's why red hair is just a characteristic while blindness is also categorized as an impairment. Marc, you say blindness is an impairment and not a disability. Then what is a disability? Haben mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while since > I read his work. > > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical > nuisance. > > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From habnkid at aol.com Thu Apr 23 05:07:16 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:07:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness Message-ID: <49EFF784.2030906@aol.com> In an earlier message Jedi stated that blindness is one of the most romanticized disabilities. In what ways has blindness been romanticized? How might one look at blindness so that it appears romantic? I'd love to hear what you all would have to say on the topic! Has anyone written a love song for the long white cane? /smile/ Haben From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 05:47:10 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 22:47:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom text question In-Reply-To: <49EFE470.5010209@aol.com> References: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <49EFE470.5010209@aol.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904222247q5694c038qe7d9f4f17c12c142@mail.gmail.com> In version 9.0, go to settings > program and select the check box that says save settings before exiting. if you don't change settings often, you can do what haben suggested. Bill On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Haben Girma wrote: > > In ZoomText, go to File. Then under File, select the option that says Save > As Default. That should do it. > > best, > Haben > > Jim Reed wrote: > >> Hello all, I use Zoom Text. Within ZoomText, I have customized some >> settings (mouse pointer and color schemes), yet everytime I close (not >> disable) zoomtext, or restart my computer, I lose all of those >> customizations, and I have to go back and set them up all over again. Is >> there any way to set up Zoom text so that it remembers my custom settings? >> >> Thanks, >> Jim >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 05:58:53 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 01:58:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] What is the status of Congressman Yarmuth's "dear collegues" letter? In-Reply-To: <850258.44588.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <850258.44588.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1F311468-A92C-4C21-A792-FEFD239AB0D2@gmail.com> You should e-mail Jim McCarthy at the National Center: jmccarthy at nfb.org Best of luck and let us know when you hear back, Corbb On Apr 21, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Jim Reed wrote: A while back there was a post on this list regarding congressman Yamuth's dear colleages letter. Based on my understanding, his letter was geared towards trying to secure aupport for a federal appropreation to fund a congressional commitee to study ways to improve textbook access. I called MT's lone representative and asked him to support Yamuth. The other day I was looking for the results of Yamuth's efforts, but I couldnt find it. Does anyone know how that turned out? Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From mworkman at ualberta.ca Thu Apr 23 06:01:08 2009 From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:01:08 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <2AF3D5DF18DB4C15AF2CCD206F5507FE@userf9b4fa60eb> Message-ID: I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with this topic. Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What I tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness is meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, blindness definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social factors. This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem to disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to blindness. I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in short, society itself, were different. If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time and effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians. If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in a society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was viewed as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to be valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best training possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into consideration when designing products and services, where blind people didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought experiments in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be blind? I don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, we'll never really know for sure. To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is not something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but you don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more than others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess the former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those cases, and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually result in society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's hoping anyways. Best, Marc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Marc, I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a physical descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. Antonio Guimaraes If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, > I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified > in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of > Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait > or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social > contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are > imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than > me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect > to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of > these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while > since > I read his work. > > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but > that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law > were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled > in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, > then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a > quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real > problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a > physical > nuisance. > > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, > we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. ca From thisischris89 at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 07:10:50 2009 From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 03:10:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: <1BE4F7A73FC74523B6949AC352BA2FFB@nbp2.local> Message-ID: Hello, I really doubt that I can fully buy into this. While social context is certainly important and a definite determining factor in how blindness is perceived, it isn't the only barrier we face and certainly doesn't encompass blindness in its entirety. For example, I can't even begin to ponder the idea that the difficulty I face with navigating the construction sites that are so ubiquitous in New York city is a result of social arrangements. I feel like such heavy emphasis on social factors often distorts our view of blindness. In all blindness circles, I've observed discussion about how ignorant sighted people are, or the stupid things sighted people do in regards to our blindness. A lot of us shrug blindness off as being the norm, but I suppose it's only that in our own heads. How many sighted people can adequately use their cellphones while driving and dial by touch? How many sighted people will turn on a light to look for an item in a cabinet right in front of them? Blind people have no choice but to dial by touch, and the light will be of little to no use. Being blind is certainly no picnic but at the same time, it isn't something that will stop our lives from progressing. The little bit of frustrationI periodically experience as a result of being blind doesn't come from all the things I wish I could see or everything I'm missing out on. The frustration comes from things like searching an entire room for a piece of paper smaller than a credit card that fell on the floor. While empowerment is certainly important among the blind community, we can't afford not to be realistic and dismiss the practical setbacks imposed by blindness. We as blind people are most certainly not self made. Therefore, I cannot simply shrug blindness off as a neutral or meaningless characteristic, not in good conscience anyway. There are numerous people, both blind and sighted that have worked to increase our ability to integrate and adapt in the sighted world. These people helped to enable us. Personally, I believe that viewing blindness as a characteristic is more relevant to our identity; it does not magically make us inside the norm in a sighted society. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mworkman at ualberta.ca Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, I suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some of you. Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified in the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, Disabilities, and Handicaps. In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed on impairments by certain social arrangements. Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than me with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not significantly impact on their lives. I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of these things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while since I read his work. I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law were a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled in order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, then I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet another example of how social arrangements are disabling. I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a quotation taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the position I've outlined. The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind person has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical nuisance. In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance (i.e., a neutral characteristic). Best, Marc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major life function, sight. Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, but I am unequivocally disabled. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. ca _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai l.com From jennifer.dunnam at earthlink.net Thu Apr 23 07:58:34 2009 From: jennifer.dunnam at earthlink.net (Jennifer Dunnam) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:58:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcement from BANA Seeking Participants Message-ID: *** Attention Braille Readers who are Attending the NFB National Convention in Detroit: The Braille Authority of North America (BANA), in response to consumer requests, is conducting an evaluation of the Nemeth Uniform Braille System (NUBS). NUBS is an experimental code designed to include literary, math, and scientific information, combining all three codes into one unified system. As an initial phase of this evaluation, BANA is recruiting interested braille readers who will be attending the National Federation of the Blind (NFB) convention during July 3-5, 2009, in Detroit, Michigan. BANA is looking for a broad representation of participants--readers of various ages, with different levels of braille reading experience, and both casual and professional users of braille. At the convention, selected individuals will take part in sessions examining the experimental code. Some individuals will be assigned to a group task, and others to a half-hour individual task. If an individual is not selected for the convention tasks, he or she will be welcome to participate in a later survey. If you are interested in being considered as a participant in this phase, please send a message to brailleauthority at gmail.com. You will be asked to fill out a simple demographic questionnaire that will help BANA determine into which group you fall. From all of the responses received BANA will create participant groups of similar size. From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 10:17:43 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 06:17:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom text question In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904222247q5694c038qe7d9f4f17c12c142@mail.gmail.com> References: <737416.61672.qm@web65716.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><49EFE470.5010209@aol.com> <26d2dfeb0904222247q5694c038qe7d9f4f17c12c142@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Jim. You can also for different applications you can also save the specific application so you also don't have to reset everything. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:47 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Zoom text question > In version 9.0, go to settings > program and select the check box that > says > save settings before exiting. if you don't change settings often, you can > do > what haben suggested. > Bill > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Haben Girma wrote: > >> >> In ZoomText, go to File. Then under File, select the option that says >> Save >> As Default. That should do it. >> >> best, >> Haben >> >> Jim Reed wrote: >> >>> Hello all, I use Zoom Text. Within ZoomText, I have customized some >>> settings (mouse pointer and color schemes), yet everytime I close (not >>> disable) zoomtext, or restart my computer, I lose all of those >>> customizations, and I have to go back and set them up all over again. Is >>> there any way to set up Zoom text so that it remembers my custom >>> settings? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Jim >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Apr 23 14:01:14 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:01:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <20090423140114.6778.91421@web2.serotek.com> Well, admittedly, good blindness sills training certainly helps to minimize the socalled setbacks of blindness. Just a thought. Original message: > Hello, > I really doubt that I can fully buy into this. While social context is > certainly important and a definite determining factor in how blindness is > perceived, it isn't the only barrier we face and certainly doesn't encompass > blindness in its entirety. For example, I can't even begin to ponder the > idea that the difficulty I face with navigating the construction sites that > are so ubiquitous in New York city is a result of social arrangements. I > feel like such heavy emphasis on social factors often distorts our view of > blindness. In all blindness circles, I've observed discussion about how > ignorant sighted people are, or the stupid things sighted people do in > regards to our blindness. A lot of us shrug blindness off as being the norm, > but I suppose it's only that in our own heads. How many sighted people can > adequately use their cellphones while driving and dial by touch? How many > sighted people will turn on a light to look for an item in a cabinet right > in front of them? Blind people have no choice but to dial by touch, and the > light will be of little to no use. > Being blind is certainly no picnic but at the same time, it isn't something > that will stop our lives from progressing. The little bit of frustrationI > periodically experience as a result of being blind doesn't come from all the > things I wish I could see or everything I'm missing out on. The frustration > comes from things like searching an entire room for a piece of paper smaller > than a credit card that fell on the floor. While empowerment is certainly > important among the blind community, we can't afford not to be realistic and > dismiss the practical setbacks imposed by blindness. We as blind people are > most certainly not self made. > Therefore, I cannot simply shrug blindness off as a neutral or meaningless > characteristic, not in good conscience anyway. There are numerous people, > both blind and sighted that have worked to increase our ability to integrate > and adapt in the sighted world. These people helped to enable us. > Personally, I believe that viewing blindness as a characteristic is more > relevant to our identity; it does not magically make us inside the norm in a > sighted society. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of mworkman at ualberta.ca > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while since > I read his work. > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical > nuisance. > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > Best, > Marc > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai > l.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 14:26:24 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 10:26:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NABS State Division Contacts Message-ID: <3049A4CC4AB3416CACB41B0D37EEEA85@Rufus> Subject: [nabs-l] NABS State Division Contacts Hello NABsters, On our Web site, www.nabslink.org there is a page containing contact information for state student division presidents (the page titled "State Divisions". If you are a student division president or appointed student contact in your state, please check to be sure your information is correct. If the information for your state is incorrect or outdated, or if your state isn't listed and you'd like to have your name down as a student contact/president, please email Joe Orozco at jsorozco at gmail.com Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, NABS _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4029 (20090422) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4029 (20090422) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cassonw at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 15:34:30 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:34:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: <1BE4F7A73FC74523B6949AC352BA2FFB@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904230834l53fdf4e4v714ba72052fbae33@mail.gmail.com> I think part of the picture that is missing is that the situations you guys keep coming up with where blindness is annoying are all constructs of our society. Take for example the piece of paper, if paper were not the form of keeping information, but someother form of data retainment and transmission that did not involve physical objects to be viewed using photons, then it would not be a problem. I agree with the original argument that blindness is a social construct. As argued, if the society was designed not around seeing things but say, around hearing things, then blindness would be less important to the blind and then the deaf would more in our position. what about if all was constructed around feeling things. then far fewer of us would be 'disabled.' This argument is very abstract and somewhat difficult to understand fully, and i am not sure if i understand it either. things that are unusual become disabling because our society builds its structure around the majority, sight, white skin, hearing, walking. The antynim of all these things are the things that have been disabling to people and we have constructed laws to reduce this disablement. I would postulate that sight is the main thing we rely on in our society because it is the furthest reaching in distance, and can transmit data without distortion or environmental variables effecting or degrading it. Bill VP Oregon Association of Blind Students 503-768-8982 cassonw at gmail.com On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Christopher Kchao wrote: > Hello, > I really doubt that I can fully buy into this. While social context is > certainly important and a definite determining factor in how blindness is > perceived, it isn't the only barrier we face and certainly doesn't > encompass > blindness in its entirety. For example, I can't even begin to ponder the > idea that the difficulty I face with navigating the construction sites that > are so ubiquitous in New York city is a result of social arrangements. I > feel like such heavy emphasis on social factors often distorts our view of > blindness. In all blindness circles, I've observed discussion about how > ignorant sighted people are, or the stupid things sighted people do in > regards to our blindness. A lot of us shrug blindness off as being the > norm, > but I suppose it's only that in our own heads. How many sighted people can > adequately use their cellphones while driving and dial by touch? How many > sighted people will turn on a light to look for an item in a cabinet right > in front of them? Blind people have no choice but to dial by touch, and the > light will be of little to no use. > Being blind is certainly no picnic but at the same time, it isn't something > that will stop our lives from progressing. The little bit of frustrationI > periodically experience as a result of being blind doesn't come from all > the > things I wish I could see or everything I'm missing out on. The frustration > comes from things like searching an entire room for a piece of paper > smaller > than a credit card that fell on the floor. While empowerment is certainly > important among the blind community, we can't afford not to be realistic > and > dismiss the practical setbacks imposed by blindness. We as blind people are > most certainly not self made. > Therefore, I cannot simply shrug blindness off as a neutral or meaningless > characteristic, not in good conscience anyway. There are numerous people, > both blind and sighted that have worked to increase our ability to > integrate > and adapt in the sighted world. These people helped to enable us. > Personally, I believe that viewing blindness as a characteristic is more > relevant to our identity; it does not magically make us inside the norm in > a > sighted society. > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of mworkman at ualberta.ca > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, > I > suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some > of you. > > Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified > in > the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, > Disabilities, and Handicaps. > > In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or > characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be > construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless > until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, > impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed > on impairments by certain social arrangements. > > Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. > The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many > people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than > me > with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to > my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in > tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, > accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in > wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not > significantly impact on their lives. > > I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, > lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make > travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of > these > things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My > blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in > mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while > since > I read his work. > > I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's > because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They > didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. > But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law > were > a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled > in > order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, > then > I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > > I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it > out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a > quotation > taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the > position I've outlined. > > The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem > is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind > person > has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical > nuisance. > > In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye > sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of > information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the > disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance > (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > > Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain > things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we > receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major > life function, sight. > > Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind > people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > > I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my > disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, > but I am unequivocally disabled. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta > . > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Apr 23 18:26:52 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:26:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <20090423182652.12649.44990@web1.serotek.com> Well, sight can be distorted since sight is basically what happens when light bounces off of objects into the human eye. Anything that interferes with that process will certainly distort what one sees. Original message: > I think part of the picture that is missing is that the situations you guys > keep coming up with where blindness is annoying are all constructs of our > society. Take for example the piece of paper, if paper were not the form of > keeping information, but someother form of data retainment and transmission > that did not involve physical objects to be viewed using photons, then it > would not be a problem. I agree with the original argument that blindness > is a social construct. As argued, if the society was designed not around > seeing things but say, around hearing things, then blindness would be less > important to the blind and then the deaf would more in our position. what > about if all was constructed around feeling things. then far fewer of us > would be 'disabled.' This argument is very abstract and somewhat difficult > to understand fully, and i am not sure if i understand it either. things > that are unusual become disabling because our society builds its structure > around the majority, sight, white skin, hearing, walking. The antynim of > all these things are the things that have been disabling to people and we > have constructed laws to reduce this disablement. I would postulate that > sight is the main thing we rely on in our society because it is the furthest > reaching in distance, and can transmit data without distortion or > environmental variables effecting or degrading it. > Bill VP > Oregon Association of Blind Students > 503-768-8982 > cassonw at gmail.com > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Christopher Kchao > wrote: >> Hello, >> I really doubt that I can fully buy into this. While social context is >> certainly important and a definite determining factor in how blindness is >> perceived, it isn't the only barrier we face and certainly doesn't >> encompass >> blindness in its entirety. For example, I can't even begin to ponder the >> idea that the difficulty I face with navigating the construction sites that >> are so ubiquitous in New York city is a result of social arrangements. I >> feel like such heavy emphasis on social factors often distorts our view of >> blindness. In all blindness circles, I've observed discussion about how >> ignorant sighted people are, or the stupid things sighted people do in >> regards to our blindness. A lot of us shrug blindness off as being the >> norm, >> but I suppose it's only that in our own heads. How many sighted people can >> adequately use their cellphones while driving and dial by touch? How many >> sighted people will turn on a light to look for an item in a cabinet right >> in front of them? Blind people have no choice but to dial by touch, and the >> light will be of little to no use. >> Being blind is certainly no picnic but at the same time, it isn't something >> that will stop our lives from progressing. The little bit of frustrationI >> periodically experience as a result of being blind doesn't come from all >> the >> things I wish I could see or everything I'm missing out on. The frustration >> comes from things like searching an entire room for a piece of paper >> smaller >> than a credit card that fell on the floor. While empowerment is certainly >> important among the blind community, we can't afford not to be realistic >> and >> dismiss the practical setbacks imposed by blindness. We as blind people are >> most certainly not self made. >> Therefore, I cannot simply shrug blindness off as a neutral or meaningless >> characteristic, not in good conscience anyway. There are numerous people, >> both blind and sighted that have worked to increase our ability to >> integrate >> and adapt in the sighted world. These people helped to enable us. >> Personally, I believe that viewing blindness as a characteristic is more >> relevant to our identity; it does not magically make us inside the norm in >> a >> sighted society. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of mworkman at ualberta.ca >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, >> I >> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some >> of you. >> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified >> in >> the World Health Organizations International Classification of Impairments, >> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait or >> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be >> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless >> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social contexts, >> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are imposed >> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. >> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than >> me >> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect to >> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in >> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >> significantly impact on their lives. >> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, >> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make >> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >> these >> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My >> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in >> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >> since >> I read his work. >> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but that's >> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. >> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >> were >> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled >> in >> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >> then >> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it >> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >> quotation >> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the >> position I've outlined. >> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem >> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >> person >> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a physical >> nuisance. >> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye >> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of >> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> Best, >> Marc >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, we >> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major >> life function, sight. >> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind >> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, >> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta >> . >> ca >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai >> l.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 23 19:25:43 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <827264.50167.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, Now that some of you had your chance to chime in, I will not throw out my 2 cents. I prefer the term "blind" over "disabled" because it is more specific. Coming from a science background, everything is based on specificity. I dont want people guessing as to what may be wrong with me, I'd rather they just know it straight away. Secondly, there is a certian negitive conotation that I associate with the term "disabled" If you break the word down dis = not, therefore "disability" literaly means not able. "Blindness", on the other hand does not have an inherently positive or negitive vibe to it.  Theres my 2 cents..........Hey we are in a depression/ressession, GIVE ME MY TWO CENTS BACK!!! Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From troubleclark at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 20:05:15 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:05:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <20090423182652.12649.44990@web1.serotek.com> References: <20090423182652.12649.44990@web1.serotek.com> Message-ID: Blindness is a disability in anyway you look at it. Legally, blindness falls under a idsability. Sincerely Nathan Clark On 4/23/09, Jedi wrote: > Well, sight can be distorted since sight is basically what happens when > light bounces off of objects into the human eye. Anything that > interferes with that process will certainly distort what one sees. > > > Original message: >> I think part of the picture that is missing is that the situations you >> guys >> keep coming up with where blindness is annoying are all constructs of our >> society. Take for example the piece of paper, if paper were not the form >> of >> keeping information, but someother form of data retainment and >> transmission >> that did not involve physical objects to be viewed using photons, then it >> would not be a problem. I agree with the original argument that blindness >> is a social construct. As argued, if the society was designed not around >> seeing things but say, around hearing things, then blindness would be less >> important to the blind and then the deaf would more in our position. what >> about if all was constructed around feeling things. then far fewer of us >> would be 'disabled.' This argument is very abstract and somewhat >> difficult >> to understand fully, and i am not sure if i understand it either. things >> that are unusual become disabling because our society builds its structure >> around the majority, sight, white skin, hearing, walking. The antynim of >> all these things are the things that have been disabling to people and we >> have constructed laws to reduce this disablement. I would postulate that >> sight is the main thing we rely on in our society because it is the >> furthest >> reaching in distance, and can transmit data without distortion or >> environmental variables effecting or degrading it. >> Bill VP >> Oregon Association of Blind Students >> 503-768-8982 >> cassonw at gmail.com > >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Christopher Kchao >> >> wrote: > >>> Hello, >>> I really doubt that I can fully buy into this. While social context is >>> certainly important and a definite determining factor in how blindness is >>> perceived, it isn't the only barrier we face and certainly doesn't >>> encompass >>> blindness in its entirety. For example, I can't even begin to ponder the >>> idea that the difficulty I face with navigating the construction sites >>> that >>> are so ubiquitous in New York city is a result of social arrangements. I >>> feel like such heavy emphasis on social factors often distorts our view >>> of >>> blindness. In all blindness circles, I've observed discussion about how >>> ignorant sighted people are, or the stupid things sighted people do in >>> regards to our blindness. A lot of us shrug blindness off as being the >>> norm, >>> but I suppose it's only that in our own heads. How many sighted people >>> can >>> adequately use their cellphones while driving and dial by touch? How many >>> sighted people will turn on a light to look for an item in a cabinet >>> right >>> in front of them? Blind people have no choice but to dial by touch, and >>> the >>> light will be of little to no use. >>> Being blind is certainly no picnic but at the same time, it isn't >>> something >>> that will stop our lives from progressing. The little bit of frustrationI >>> periodically experience as a result of being blind doesn't come from all >>> the >>> things I wish I could see or everything I'm missing out on. The >>> frustration >>> comes from things like searching an entire room for a piece of paper >>> smaller >>> than a credit card that fell on the floor. While empowerment is certainly >>> important among the blind community, we can't afford not to be realistic >>> and >>> dismiss the practical setbacks imposed by blindness. We as blind people >>> are >>> most certainly not self made. >>> Therefore, I cannot simply shrug blindness off as a neutral or >>> meaningless >>> characteristic, not in good conscience anyway. There are numerous people, >>> both blind and sighted that have worked to increase our ability to >>> integrate >>> and adapt in the sighted world. These people helped to enable us. >>> Personally, I believe that viewing blindness as a characteristic is more >>> relevant to our identity; it does not magically make us inside the norm >>> in >>> a >>> sighted society. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of mworkman at ualberta.ca >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? > >>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>> which, >>> I >>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>> some >>> of you. > >>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified >>> in >>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>> Impairments, >>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. > >>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait >>> or >>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be >>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless >>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>> contexts, >>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>> imposed >>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. > >>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>> building. >>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than >>> me >>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect >>> to >>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in >>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >>> significantly impact on their lives. > >>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, >>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>> make >>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>> these >>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My >>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had >>> in >>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>> since >>> I read his work. > >>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>> that's >>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>> disability. >>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >>> were >>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled >>> in >>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >>> then >>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > >>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it >>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>> quotation >>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the >>> position I've outlined. > >>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>> problem >>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>> person >>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>> physical >>> nuisance. > >>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye >>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of >>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > >>> Best, > >>> Marc > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? > > >>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > >>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, >>> we >>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>> major >>> life function, sight. > >>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>> blind >>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > >>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, >>> but I am unequivocally disabled. > >>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta >>> . >>> ca > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai >>> l.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 23 20:07:30 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness Message-ID: <70277.44933.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey, Does romanticisation of blindness have anything to do with dependence/interdependence? In romances, relationships, and family, there is a certian amout of interdependence among the lovebirds. is it because blind people are already closer to dependency than others, that we are some how inherently more qualified for a relationship? Or is it based on society's view of romance that one partner strives to take care of the other (ie. the man as the "bread winner"), thus there is a natural tendanc to view blind people in a similar light, that we need/want to be taken care of like the helpless housewife (put away your claws ladies, I;m not suggesting women are helpless or need/want to be taken cvare of). Ive never been good at philosopy. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 23 22:08:05 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage.  Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and  "green" energy, will potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation,  or further economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. Well thats my two cents Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 22:45:32 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:45:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness In-Reply-To: <70277.44933.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <70277.44933.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7949e5e20904231545i7eb3d09du84e9bc4f94c43aef@mail.gmail.com> Jim, I don't think this is quite what people are referring to. When someone romanticizes blindness, they often make it look far easier to be blind than it is. A particularly overused clitche is to give the blind individual special "superpowers" arising from their blindness. For example, about five years ago, there was a movie produced called Daredevil. The protagonist of the film was a blind vidgulantee. This man, using only the senses of hearing/smell/touch could stalk criminals across the rooftops of buildings in the dead of night, and was a very accurate knifethrower seeing as he couldn't see his targets. This is the type of scenario people are referring to when they speak of romanticizing blindness. Hth Courtney On 4/23/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hey, > > Does romanticisation of blindness have anything to do with > dependence/interdependence? In romances, relationships, and family, there is > a certian amout of interdependence among the lovebirds. is it because blind > people are already closer to dependency than others, that we are some how > inherently more qualified for a relationship? Or is it based on society's > view of romance that one partner strives to take care of the other (ie. the > man as the "bread winner"), thus there is a natural tendanc to view blind > people in a similar light, that we need/want to be taken care of like the > helpless housewife (put away your claws ladies, I;m not suggesting women are > helpless or need/want to be taken cvare of). > Ive never been good at philosopy. > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 22:50:30 2009 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:50:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act In-Reply-To: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7949e5e20904231550m30396de3wa3c298a1d600d1ce@mail.gmail.com> Jim, There is nothing in this act hindering the development of this technology. All that we are asking is that a small device be installed in the car so that when it is running on a battery, it will make enough noise to be heard. I, too, do not want to hinder the progress of society, and I, too, am an environmentalist,, but I also do not want to endanger my own safety. Without these devices, as hybrids become more prevalent, it will be extremely difficult for blind pedestrians to travel independtly and be safe while doing so. Just offering an alternative perspective. Courtney On 4/23/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars might > pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, there > is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign oil, > and enviromental damage. > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support > or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in > our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it > may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact > of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant > nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence > of forign oil. > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of > hybrids, alternative fuels, and  "green" energy, will potentially be the > savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could > jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and > individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you > will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. > Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind > persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing > world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of > silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal > progress, continued enviromental degradfation,  or further economic decline. > I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) > refuse to adapt. > > Well thats my two cents > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From habnkid at aol.com Thu Apr 23 23:33:13 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:33:13 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F0FAB9.20309@aol.com> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so that blame is not places on the characteristics? Haben mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty > about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with this > topic. > > Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What I > tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being > situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness is > meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because > blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, blindness > definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social > factors. > > This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is > associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem to > disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to blindness. > I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if > institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in short, > society itself, were different. > > If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time and > effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than > working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians. > If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges > blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible > blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my > instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in a > society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where > every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was viewed > as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to be > valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best training > possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into > consideration when designing products and services, where blind people > didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I > realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought experiments > in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be blind? I > don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, we'll > never really know for sure. > > To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > > To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or > characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is not > something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but you > don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase > persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some > characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more than > others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess > those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin > colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant > challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin > colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess the > former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those cases, > and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and > advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually result in > society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's > hoping anyways. > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Marc, > > I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a physical > descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about > social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > > Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or > characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with > ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of > highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary > works in Braille. > > Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. > http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 > Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > > > >> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, >> I >> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some >> of you. >> >> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified >> in >> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >> Impairments, >> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> >> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait >> or >> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be >> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless >> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >> contexts, >> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >> imposed >> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> >> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. >> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than >> me >> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect >> to >> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in >> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >> significantly impact on their lives. >> >> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, >> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make >> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >> these >> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My >> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in >> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >> since >> I read his work. >> >> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >> that's >> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. >> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >> were >> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled >> in >> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >> then >> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> >> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it >> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >> quotation >> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the >> position I've outlined. >> >> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >> problem >> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >> person >> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >> physical >> nuisance. >> >> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye >> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of >> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> >> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, >> we >> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major >> life function, sight. >> >> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind >> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >> >> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, >> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> >> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >> ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 23:40:54 2009 From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Adrianne Dempsey) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:40:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness References: <49EFF784.2030906@aol.com> Message-ID: <63986B1EFF454FBFB9B9B09D04264BC8@YOUR314E04A90B> I believe that the statement blindness is one of the most romanticized disabilities refers to the "amazing blind person comments." Sighted people usually look at blind people in one of two ways, either "blind people are helpless and can't do anything with out help," or "blind people are amazing at everything they do." All the stereotypes such as, "all blind people are talented piano players, blind people are good with their hands, blind people make grate massage therapists, blind people have super sonic hearing abilities, blind people are good in bed, blind people do not make judgments on other peoples appearances because they look at other peoples souls. While it is nice to think of blind people as being this amazing and noble, we all know that this romantic view does not apply to all blind people. Their are blind people who fit in many of these categories but most blind people do not fit all categories, and their is always some who don't fit any. So while blindness is much more romanticized by these stereotypes it doesn't mean love. We get both the positive and negative from stereotypes but the romanticized version sounds a lot nicer don't you think. teehee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:07 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness > > In an earlier message Jedi stated that blindness is one of the most > romanticized disabilities. In what ways has blindness been romanticized? > How might one look at blindness so that it appears romantic? I'd love to > hear what you all would have to say on the topic! Has anyone written a > love song for the long white cane? /smile/ > > Haben > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 24 00:30:48 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Who wants to help? Message-ID: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to vollenter to help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview tomarrow), if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the ball rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest format, so its better to meail be directly) First, we need to find the equipment.    1  Does anybody have, or have access to,  high-end A/V recording equipment?    2.  If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the equipment.              1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those funda avaliable?           2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need to find out where.           3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off the gear.           4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be willing to allow us                to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on recording/production as a project.            5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the Detroit chapter to find local              resources. Any Michigan students on the list?    3.  Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the P.A. system that          will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? Next we need to focus on personell     1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several people willing to take          turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties?      2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound boards or what          not.      3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage      4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) Lastly, we need to contact the speaker      1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can plan accordingly.       2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material along with the video.       3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and upoaded.       4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and dated) permission from           the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials on the web. I know           Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take further action until I           see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, but verify." I hope to hear from you guys, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From anna.parker.11 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 00:50:57 2009 From: anna.parker.11 at gmail.com (anna parker) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:50:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness In-Reply-To: <63986B1EFF454FBFB9B9B09D04264BC8@YOUR314E04A90B> References: <49EFF784.2030906@aol.com> <63986B1EFF454FBFB9B9B09D04264BC8@YOUR314E04A90B> Message-ID: nicely written andi, good job hun On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Adrianne Dempsey < adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com> wrote: > I believe that the statement blindness is one of the most romanticized > disabilities refers to the "amazing blind person comments." Sighted people > usually look at blind people in one of two ways, either "blind people are > helpless and can't do anything with out help," or "blind people are amazing > at everything they do." All the stereotypes such as, "all blind people are > talented piano players, blind people are good with their hands, blind people > make grate massage therapists, blind people have super sonic hearing > abilities, blind people are good in bed, blind people do not make judgments > on other peoples appearances because they look at other peoples souls. While > it is nice to think of blind people as being this amazing and noble, we all > know that this romantic view does not apply to all blind people. Their are > blind people who fit in many of these categories but most blind people do > not fit all categories, and their is always some who don't fit any. So > while blindness is much more romanticized by these stereotypes it doesn't > mean love. We get both the positive and negative from stereotypes but the > romanticized version sounds a lot nicer don't you think. teehee > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:07 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness > > > >> In an earlier message Jedi stated that blindness is one of the most >> romanticized disabilities. In what ways has blindness been romanticized? How >> might one look at blindness so that it appears romantic? I'd love to hear >> what you all would have to say on the topic! Has anyone written a love song >> for the long white cane? /smile/ >> >> Haben >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com > From spangler.robert at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 01:06:43 2009 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:06:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act In-Reply-To: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49F110A3.8040709@gmail.com> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. Thanks, Robby Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. > > Well thats my two cents > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - Recording Secretary Ohio Association of Blind Students - President From mworkman at ualberta.ca Fri Apr 24 01:19:03 2009 From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:19:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <49F0FAB9.20309@aol.com> Message-ID: Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most of my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than persons with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a disability whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a particular kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem is in me. That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we think about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we are referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to correct someone who said persons with disabilities. However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of Canada's major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I say it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about disability. To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it only seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, there was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and this could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that the designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. Far too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to be change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the special needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and it gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about disability differently. A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a disability, which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability anyway you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and for the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't think it's the right way of looking at it. Best, Marc -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Haben Girma Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so that blame is not places on the characteristics? Haben mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty > about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with this > topic. > > Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What I > tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being > situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness is > meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because > blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, blindness > definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social > factors. > > This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is > associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem to > disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to blindness. > I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if > institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in short, > society itself, were different. > > If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time and > effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than > working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians. > If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges > blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible > blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my > instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in a > society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where > every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was viewed > as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to be > valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best training > possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into > consideration when designing products and services, where blind people > didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I > realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought experiments > in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be blind? I > don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, we'll > never really know for sure. > > To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > > To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or > characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is not > something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but you > don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase > persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some > characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more than > others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess > those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin > colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant > challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin > colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess the > former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those cases, > and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and > advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually result in > society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's > hoping anyways. > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Marc, > > I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a physical > descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about > social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > > Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or > characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with > ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of > highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary > works in Braille. > > Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. > http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 > Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > > > >> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with which, >> I >> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade some >> of you. >> >> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified >> in >> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >> Impairments, >> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> >> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait >> or >> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be >> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless >> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >> contexts, >> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >> imposed >> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> >> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my building. >> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than >> me >> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect >> to >> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in >> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >> significantly impact on their lives. >> >> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, >> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that make >> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >> these >> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My >> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had in >> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >> since >> I read his work. >> >> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >> that's >> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of disability. >> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >> were >> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled >> in >> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >> then >> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> >> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it >> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >> quotation >> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the >> position I've outlined. >> >> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >> problem >> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >> person >> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >> physical >> nuisance. >> >> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye >> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of >> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> >> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, >> we >> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a major >> life function, sight. >> >> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for blind >> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >> >> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, >> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> >> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >> ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. ca From jonte711 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 01:43:07 2009 From: jonte711 at gmail.com (jonte) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:43:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <49f1187f.11045a0a.3fbb.ffffe4c5@mx.google.com> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car companies to accommodate us. Jonte -----Original Message----- From: Robert Spangler Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. Thanks, Robby Jim Reed wrote: > Hello, > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. > > Well thats my two cents > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senate - Recording Secretary Ohio Association of Blind Students - President _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 24 02:03:16 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:03:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness Message-ID: <20090424020316.32017.73831@web2.serotek.com> Or the opposite: blindness becomes this incredible sob story. Original message: > Jim, > I don't think this is quite what people are referring to. When > someone romanticizes blindness, they often make it look far easier to > be blind than it is. A particularly overused clitche is to give the > blind individual special "superpowers" arising from their blindness. > For example, about five years ago, there was a movie produced called > Daredevil. The protagonist of the film was a blind vidgulantee. This > man, using only the senses of hearing/smell/touch could stalk > criminals across the rooftops of buildings in the dead of night, and > was a very accurate knifethrower seeing as he couldn't see his > targets. This is the type of scenario people are referring to when > they speak of romanticizing blindness. Hth > Courtney > On 4/23/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hey, >> Does romanticisation of blindness have anything to do with >> dependence/interdependence? In romances, relationships, and family, there is >> a certian amout of interdependence among the lovebirds. is it because blind >> people are already closer to dependency than others, that we are some how >> inherently more qualified for a relationship? Or is it based on society's >> view of romance that one partner strives to take care of the other (ie. the >> man as the "bread winner"), thus there is a natural tendanc to view blind >> people in a similar light, that we need/want to be taken care of like the >> helpless housewife (put away your claws ladies, I;m not suggesting women are >> helpless or need/want to be taken cvare of). >> Ive never been good at philosopy. >> Jim >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 02:09:46 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:09:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act References: <49f1187f.11045a0a.3fbb.ffffe4c5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <205B3DBF995249EDB91526E70B3795CC@Dezman> Jonte, Remember what we're fighting for will benefit all pedestrians, the blind, bicyclists, children, etc. I don't know how feasible it would be to manufacture and sell such a cane to the blind. How much would it drive up the price? What about when the device goes dead or otherwise fails? Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I > think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car > companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > Thanks, > Robby > > Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence >> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >> hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in >> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >> methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because >> I (we) refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Apr 24 02:11:09 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:11:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <20090424021109.32027.11028@web2.serotek.com> Hey. I'm all for putting a sound maker in a hybrid. However, I think we're missing out on an excellent time to develop technology that will allow deaf-blind pedestrians to cross streets safely and independently, too. I was hoping the NFB would consider it, but no go. Well, I guess teh deaf-blind are going to have to beat on the drumbs a bit. I'll be right there on the baracades when they do. Original message: > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? > I think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the > car companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > Thanks, > Robby > Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >> dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >> this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid >> car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, >> there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, >> national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >> development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will >> potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next >> big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus >> helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national >> convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of >> this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting >> industy and inovation, not hindering it. >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >> in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >> societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further >> economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the >> bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From cassonw at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 02:16:08 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:16:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Who wants to help? In-Reply-To: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904231916u2fe67d74q600e408beefebcf4@mail.gmail.com> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career > seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to vollenter to > help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview tomarrow), > if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the ball > rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the > following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest > format, so its better to meail be directly) > > First, we need to find the equipment. > 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording > equipment? > 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the > equipment. > 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those funda > avaliable? > 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need to > find out where. > 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off the > gear. > 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be > willing to allow us > to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on > recording/production as a project. > 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the > Detroit chapter to find local > resources. Any Michigan students on the list? > 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the P.A. > system that > will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? > > Next we need to focus on personell > 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several people > willing to take > turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? > 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound boards > or what > not. > 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage > 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) > > Lastly, we need to contact the speaker > 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can plan > accordingly. > 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material > along with the video. > 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and > upoaded. > 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and > dated) permission from > the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials on > the web. I know > Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take > further action until I > see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, but > verify." > > I hope to hear from you guys, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From cassonw at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 02:19:55 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 19:19:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act In-Reply-To: <49f1187f.11045a0a.3fbb.ffffe4c5@mx.google.com> References: <49f1187f.11045a0a.3fbb.ffffe4c5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904231919p50eeb592p589154d48a9db754@mail.gmail.com> Don't you think those graphite canes are heavy enough already? Not sure about some of the rest of you, but i am rather hard on canes and any electronic device is not likely to last a weekend. Bill On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 6:43 PM, jonte wrote: > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I > think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car > companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > Thanks, > Robby > > Jim Reed wrote: > > Hello, > > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars > might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, > there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on > forign oil, and enviromental damage. > > > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the > support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great > leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this > development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. > Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are > much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national security > risk via a dependence of forign oil. > > > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development > of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the > savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could > jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and > individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you > will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. > Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind > persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing > world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of > silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal > progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic decline. > I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) > refuse to adapt. > > > > Well thats my two cents > > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 02:45:14 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:45:14 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Who wants to help? In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0904231916u2fe67d74q600e408beefebcf4@mail.gmail.com> References: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904231916u2fe67d74q600e408beefebcf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim and all, My understanding is that there is already going to be a general employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of the year. I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven other national conventions I've attended thus far. Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, NABS On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: > I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > >> Hello all, >> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career >> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to vollenter >> to >> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview tomarrow), >> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the ball >> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >> format, so its better to meail be directly) >> >> First, we need to find the equipment. >> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >> equipment? >> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the >> equipment. >> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those funda >> avaliable? >> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need to >> find out where. >> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >> the >> gear. >> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be >> willing to allow us >> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >> recording/production as a project. >> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >> Detroit chapter to find local >> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the P.A. >> system that >> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >> >> Next we need to focus on personell >> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several people >> willing to take >> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >> boards >> or what >> not. >> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >> >> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can plan >> accordingly. >> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >> along with the video. >> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and >> upoaded. >> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >> dated) permission from >> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials on >> the web. I know >> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take >> further action until I >> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >> but >> verify." >> >> I hope to hear from you guys, >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jonte711 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 02:49:14 2009 From: jonte711 at gmail.com (jonte) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:49:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <49f127fd.07025a0a.3798.ffffe344@mx.google.com> Dezman, Good point about the safety of children; though I think bicyclists really should be able to see where they are going and avoid any accidents. I'm not a technical genius, but wouldn't it be possible to invent a mechanism in the cane that beeps or vibrates in close proximity to a hybrid car? As for the device going dead or failing, I admit that I don't know what would happen in that situation. So, I pose the same question to you. What if the device that you want the car companies to install in the hybrid cars were to malfunction? Technology is not infallible. Jonte -----Original Message----- From: Dezman Jackson Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Jonte, Remember what we're fighting for will benefit all pedestrians, the blind, bicyclists, children, etc. I don't know how feasible it would be to manufacture and sell such a cane to the blind. How much would it drive up the price? What about when the device goes dead or otherwise fails? Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I > think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car > companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > Thanks, > Robby > > Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence >> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >> hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in >> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >> methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because >> I (we) refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com From arielle71 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 02:50:13 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:50:13 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Who wants to help? In-Reply-To: References: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904231916u2fe67d74q600e408beefebcf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi again, Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career seminar. (It's been a long week!) Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. Arielle On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Jim and all, > > My understanding is that there is already going to be a general > employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least > that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete > with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about > hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of > the year. > > I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an > advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the > agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven > other national conventions I've attended thus far. > > Arielle Silverman > First Vice-President, NABS > > On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career >>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>> vollenter >>> to >>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>> tomarrow), >>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>> ball >>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>> >>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>> equipment? >>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the >>> equipment. >>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>> funda >>> avaliable? >>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need >>> to >>> find out where. >>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >>> the >>> gear. >>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be >>> willing to allow us >>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>> recording/production as a project. >>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >>> Detroit chapter to find local >>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>> P.A. >>> system that >>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>> >>> Next we need to focus on personell >>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>> people >>> willing to take >>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>> boards >>> or what >>> not. >>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>> >>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>> plan >>> accordingly. >>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >>> along with the video. >>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and >>> upoaded. >>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>> dated) permission from >>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials >>> on >>> the web. I know >>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take >>> further action until I >>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >>> but >>> verify." >>> >>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Fri Apr 24 03:09:34 2009 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:09:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: Unfortunately, we can't just express a want for something and think that can make it happen. Try to first think how a hybrid car would be detectable among all the other cars. Then try to imagine what sort of feedback could be given by your cane that could be equal to even a small sound heard with your ears. It just isn't practical as far as I can see, and a small sound would also be useful to children and other pedestrians. I don't know how the laws read, bot most large trucks and fork lifts have loud warning beeps when they move already to warn everybody. We're asking for much less to avoid situations that could be much more dangerous. Best regards, Steve Jacobson >Original message: >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >> I think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the >> car companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> Thanks, >> Robby >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>> this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid >>> car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, >>> there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, >>> national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>> development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will >>> potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next >>> big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus >>> helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national >>> convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of >>> this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting >>> industy and inovation, not hindering it. >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further >>> economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the >>> bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >-- >REspectfully, >Jedi >Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 03:39:40 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:39:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act References: <49f127fd.07025a0a.3798.ffffe344@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Well, true you would think bicyclists typically have good eyesight, but hearing is still important. As for the cane, you're dealing with a lot of variables, for example, how would it distinguish a hybrid car from any other car? I mean,, look, somebody still has yet to come up with an effective cane that detects overhanging objects and the like, much less an object moving at 50 mph. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > Dezman, > Good point about the safety of children; though I think bicyclists really > should be able to see where they are going and avoid any accidents. > I'm not a technical genius, but wouldn't it be possible to invent a > mechanism in the cane that beeps or vibrates in close proximity to a > hybrid car? As for the device going dead or failing, I admit that I don't > know what would happen in that situation. So, I pose the same question to > you. What if the device that you want the car companies to install in the > hybrid cars were to malfunction? > Technology is not infallible. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dezman Jackson > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > Jonte, > > Remember what we're fighting for will benefit all pedestrians, the blind, > bicyclists, children, etc. I don't know how feasible it would be to > manufacture and sell such a cane to the blind. How much would it drive up > the price? What about when the device goes dead or otherwise fails? > > Dezman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jonte" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >> companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence >>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>> Detroit, >>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>> hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in >>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>> methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>> because >>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 03:40:53 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:40:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act References: <20090424021109.32027.11028@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <8DBED5B213B5486298DF8CC7F6BDBE95@Dezman> Good point, Jedi. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > Hey. > > I'm all for putting a sound maker in a hybrid. However, I think we're > missing out on an excellent time to develop technology that will allow > deaf-blind pedestrians to cross streets safely and independently, too. I > was hoping the NFB would consider it, but no go. Well, I guess teh > deaf-blind are going to have to beat on the drumbs a bit. I'll be right > there on the baracades when they do. > > > Original message: >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >> companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > >> Thanks, >> Robby > >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. > >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. > >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>> Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current >>> economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and >>> inovation, not hindering it. > >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>> methodologies? > >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further >>> economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the >>> bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. > >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim > >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com > From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 04:18:58 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:18:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness In-Reply-To: <20090424020316.32017.73831@web2.serotek.com> References: <20090424020316.32017.73831@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: My aim is not to be pessimistic in this, but to merely point out the reality that even in the social constructs of romantic humor; blindness is still not taken seriously. I was thinking through many of the saying that I have heard, especially in light of what Andi had to point out. As one well embracing of the twenty-first century, I found the following through google. But to preface such a comment, we must realize that expressions of blindness are aimed towards ignorance and not competence. So although we may be blind, it would not be profitable for us to love as blind, not in the sense that sighted people deem their definition. Love is blind Origin This was coined by Shakespeare and was quite a favorite line of his. It appears in several of his plays, including Two Gentlemen of Verona, Henry V and The Merchant Of Venice. For example, this piece from The Merchant Of Venice: Block quote start JESSICA: Here, catch this casket; it is worth the pains. I am glad 'tis night, you do not look on me, For I am much ashamed of my exchange: But love is blind and lovers cannot see The pretty follies that themselves commit; For if they could, Cupid himself would blush To see me thus transformed to a boy. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:03 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness Or the opposite: blindness becomes this incredible sob story. Original message: > Jim, > I don't think this is quite what people are referring to. When > someone romanticizes blindness, they often make it look far easier to > be blind than it is. A particularly overused clitche is to give the > blind individual special "superpowers" arising from their blindness. > For example, about five years ago, there was a movie produced called > Daredevil. The protagonist of the film was a blind vidgulantee. This > man, using only the senses of hearing/smell/touch could stalk > criminals across the rooftops of buildings in the dead of night, and > was a very accurate knifethrower seeing as he couldn't see his > targets. This is the type of scenario people are referring to when > they speak of romanticizing blindness. Hth > Courtney > On 4/23/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hey, >> Does romanticisation of blindness have anything to do with >> dependence/interdependence? In romances, relationships, and family, there is >> a certian amout of interdependence among the lovebirds. is it because blind >> people are already closer to dependency than others, that we are some how >> inherently more qualified for a relationship? Or is it based on society's >> view of romance that one partner strives to take care of the other (ie. the >> man as the "bread winner"), thus there is a natural tendanc to view blind >> people in a similar light, that we need/want to be taken care of like the >> helpless housewife (put away your claws ladies, I;m not suggesting women are >> helpless or need/want to be taken cvare of). >> Ive never been good at philosopy. >> Jim >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 24 04:21:38 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:21:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar.Who wants to help? References: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904231916u2fe67d74q600e408beefebcf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000d01c9c494$2acd20a0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Bill and listers, If you're talking about recording the employment Seminar and the NABS Meeting itself we can use your help. It will also make a fine edition to your resume. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar.Who wants to help? I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career > seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to vollenter > to > help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview tomarrow), > if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the ball > rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the > following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest > format, so its better to meail be directly) > > First, we need to find the equipment. > 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording > equipment? > 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the > equipment. > 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those funda > avaliable? > 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need to > find out where. > 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off > the > gear. > 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be > willing to allow us > to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on > recording/production as a project. > 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the > Detroit chapter to find local > resources. Any Michigan students on the list? > 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the P.A. > system that > will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? > > Next we need to focus on personell > 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several people > willing to take > turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? > 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound > boards > or what > not. > 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage > 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) > > Lastly, we need to contact the speaker > 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can plan > accordingly. > 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material > along with the video. > 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and > upoaded. > 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and > dated) permission from > the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials on > the web. I know > Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take > further action until I > see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, > but > verify." > > I hope to hear from you guys, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From paltschul at CENTURYTEL.NET Fri Apr 24 04:36:54 2009 From: paltschul at CENTURYTEL.NET (peter altschul) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:36:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking beta feedback on McTwit (a Twitter client) (fwd) Message-ID: http://EmpowermentZone.com/mtsetup.exe I have now developed a GUI version of McTwit. The initial, command line version is still included in the distribution. I am seeking feedback on this public beta. To help you decide whether to try it, pasted below are sections of the documentation. Jamal McTwit Beta 0.9 April 22, 2009 Copyright 2009 by Jamal Mazrui GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) Contents Description Installation Overview Getting Messages Sending Messages Managing Users Navigating Items Miscellaneous Commands Summary of Commands Development Notes MT Client twyt Twyt - A Twitter client for the easily distracted twyt - Command line twitter client Usage: mctwit COMMAND [options] [args] Bits of the twitter API that have been implemented and bits that need implementing in twitter.py How to install twyt How to use the twyt Python module Help on module twyt.twitter in twyt: Blog of Andrew Price Twyt Licence - ---------- Description McTwit is a Windows client for the social networking site called Twitter.com. It is designed for productivity by keyboard users. Additionally, if the JAWS, System Access, or Window-Eyes screen reader is active, select information is conveyed through direct speech messages. Such messages are also displayed on the status line for visual users. - ---------- Installation The installer for McTwit is called mtsetup.exe. The default location for the program is C:\Program Files\McTwit The installer also creates a desktop shortcut and a program group within the Windows Start Menu, with options to launch the program, read documentation, or uninstall. The default shortcutkey is Alt+Control+M. - ---------- Overview The McTwit program is a single dialog with a listbox, multi-line edit box, and many buttons. The listbox shows multiple message or user items from Twitter. The edit box -- also called the viewing area -- shows additional information about the current item in the list, e.g., the time of a message and full name of a user who posted it. Each button performs an action, often to fill the list with a particular type of item. All controls in the dialog may be accessed with a unique, mnemonic keystroke. For example, Alt+I focuses on items in the list, Alt+V focuses on the viewing area, and Alt+N invokes the New button, which filles the list with new messages by those you are following. This button is also the default, so it can be invoked by pressing Enter unless another button has focus. Buttons after New are in an alphabetical sequence until the Help and Close buttons at the end. A description of each control is available on the status line when the control has focus. A screen reader has a hotkey to read the status line. Several commands operate relative to a particular user, which McTwit calls the base user. If no items are in the list, the base user is yourself. Otherwise, it is obtained from the current item in the list. If the type of item is a message, the base user is the sender of the message. To re-establish yourself as the base user, press Alt+0 for the 0Items command, which clears the list. To specify a base user by typing a scree name rather than pointing to a list item, press Alt+1 for the 1Other command, which prompts you for the other user to be referenced by subsequent commands. - ---------- Getting Messages The New command, Alt+N, gets tweets by you or your "leaders" -- the McTwit term for users whom you are following. The Replies command, Alt+R, gets tweets that reference your screen name preceded by the @ sign -- a Twitter convention for replying publicly to someone. The Direct command, Alt+D, gets direct messages sent privately to you. The Public command, Alt+P, gets messages from the "public timeline" -- recent tweets posted by anyone. The Messages command, Alt+M, gets tweets by the base user. The Sent command, Alt+S, gets direct messages that you have sent. - ---------- Sending Messages The Tweet command, Alt+T, posts a public message by you, which is also called a "tweet" or "updating your status." The 2Tweet command, Alt+2, posts a public reply to the base user. The Write command, Alt+W, sends a direct message to the base user. - ---------- Managing Users The Leaders command, Alt+L, gets users that the base user is following. The followers command, Alt+F, gets users who are following the base user. The Join command, Alt+J, sets the base user as one of your leaders. The Zap command, Alt+Z, removes something according to the type of item. The command deletes a tweet or direct message by you. The command also drops someone as your leader, or blocks someone as your follower. The Unblock command, Alt+U, unblocks someone, so you may be followed again. The Extra command, Alt+X, gets more information about the base user, which is displayed in the viewing area. - ---------- Navigating Items The list of items supports navigation by arrow keys or the initial letter of an item. The Keywords command, Alt+K, searches for an item, starting at the top, based on text it contains. A match does not depend on capitalization. The Again command, Alt+A, searches for the next match, if any. The Order command, Alt+O, sorts the list items in alphabetical, reverse, or original order. Since messages are initially displayed with the most recent first, you can display them chronologically instead by choosing reverse order. The Query command, Alt+Q, prompts for a "regular expression" for filtering the list. The syntax of regular expressions is an advanced topic that is beyond the scope of this documentation (many tutorials are available on the web). If no punctuation symbols are used, the regular expression acts like the keywords search, except that it searches all text of each message or user item, not just the part displayed in the list. Various punctuation symbols have special meaning in a regular expression, and they may be used to specify almost any condition or combination of conditions for text to be considered a match. - ---------- Miscellaneous Commands The Bound command(Alt+B), sets a limit on the number of pages to be retrieved from Twitter. The default is 0, meaning no upper bound. Since Twitter limits the amount of resources consumed by each user per minute, you may wish to use this command if you are running into resource limits. An indication of this problem is when no items are retrieved by McTwit, even though you are fairly sure that updates are available on Twitter.com. The Export command, Alt+E, saves text of the current item -- text from both the list and viewing area. The text is appended to a file called Export.txt. This file is automatically opened in your default text editor after closing McTwit. You can then use the text in other ways. Delete the file if you want McTwit to start a new file in the next session. The Yield command, Alt+Y, is a convenience for screen reader users. It says the number of items in the list and then reads their text. The Configure command, Alt+C, lets you change settings such as your screen name and password, which are needed for authorization by Twitter. If this information is not found when McTwit is loading, you are prompted for it. The Help command, Alt+H, presents this documentation in your web browser. In addition, a summary of commands is displayed in the viewing area. This summary is in the following section. - ---------- Summary of Commands McTwit = Alt+ControlM, Launch or activate the McTwit program Items = Alt+I, Focus on list of messages or users View = Alt+V, Focus on Additional information about current list item New = Alt+N, Display new messages from leaders (friends whom you follow) Again = Alt+A, Find the next keywords match in the list Bound = Alt+B, Set an upper limit on the number of pages returned (0 means no limit) Configure = Alt+C, Change McTwit settings, e.g., user name and password Direct = Alt+D, Display direct messages that were sent privately to you Export = Alt+E, Save text of the current list item and view to the file Export.txt, which is opened after closing McTwit Followers = Alt+F, Display users who are following you Go = Alt+G, Open a referenced URL in your web browser Join = Alt+J, Start following a user Keywords = Alt+K, Find a list item based on text it contains Leaders = Alt+L, Display users whom you are following Messages = Alt+M, Display messages posted publicly by a user Order = Alt+O, Change the order of list items, e.g., alphabetize or reverse them Public = Alt+P, Display messages in the public timeline Query = Alt+Q, Filter list items based on a regular expression Replies = Alt+R, Display public, reply messages to you Sent = Alt+S, Display direct messages you sent privately to others Tweet = Alt+T, Update your status by posting a public message 2Tweet = Alt+2, Tweet with a public reply to another user Unblock = Alt+U, Unblock a user, so you may be followed Write = Alt+W, Write a private, direct message to another user E&Xtra = Alt+X, Display extra information about a user Yield = Alt+Y, Say the number of list items and read their text Zap = Alt+Z, Depending on the type of list item, delete a public tweet or direct message by you, block a user from following you, or Stop following a user 0Items = Alt+0, Clear the list, so queries are based on yourself 1Other = Alt+1, Set or clear the screen name of another user, which will be referenced instead of pointing to a list item Help = Alt+H, Display a summary of commands, hotkeys, and descriptions Close = Escape or Alt+F4, Close the McTwit program From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 04:40:51 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:40:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act In-Reply-To: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, I first want to commend your intentions as I think it is very important and valuable to be one who is aimed toward integrating into society rather than bending society. However, in spirit of being American, we are meant to be a nation that supports and cares for its minorities. The whole purpose of making buildings handicap accessible is to promote the equality of individuals that are unable to utilize stairs or narrow doors. Our nation has been devoted to the change for equality as we have fought for racial reconciliation, gender equality, education opportunities, and much more. America prides itself on being so accessible to information, but I find that although the internet is a friend to information it is an enemy to thought. Those who care about me and know me barely think for me, and those who do not know me will never think for me until I introduce myself. We are a market driven society that thrives on practical knowledge, and until things are done to promote blindness, the sighted world will become more and more removed from our grasp. I believe that the issue of touch phones is already taunting this reality, and other common appliances that have spurred our Federation to propose a technology bill of rights. Now how many times have you had someone ask you about Braille on ATM machines? They do not realize that there is Braille on the ATM machines within wall mart or other walk up tellers, but only the drive through machines. They also do not realize that they are made in the same place, and it is easier to adapt all of them, rather than a select few. My new municipal court building has a talking elevator as well, and I could point that such a thing is unnecessary. However, when people downtown see me, they forget that the sound prompts helped them out, and are more impressed with the novelty that I have an opportunity to be prompted to the floor I chose. My point being, there are plenty of things that I personally find dumb, but they are beneficial in spurring the thinking in the majority. Perhaps the most hilarious find on my campus is that they went a bit over board on the Braille signs. There is a sign located in the middle of my cafeteria that is labeled cafeteria, and I was informed by its existence through a friend who was curious. I follow along the wall of that particular section, and would easily go my entire time on campus without knowing there is a sign in the middle of a room just for me! However, my classrooms are labeled, and all I needed was some assistance in knowing where buildings were located rather than every class room. Sincerely, Mandarino -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf of Jim Reed Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM To: MAB List Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Hello, I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage.  Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and  "green" energy, will potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation,  or further economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. Well thats my two cents Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Apr 24 04:51:09 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 23:51:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Recording Vs. Webcasting Message-ID: <007201c9c498$49a82840$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good evening everyone, Let me first clarify a point about the employment seminar and recording vs. Webcasting this and the NABS annual meeting. Assuming the equipment can be found and personnel recruited to record these events you need to understand that if these events were to be Webcast there is a cost involved and the charges can be pretty steep in up-scale hotels. For example a hotel might charge a $150.00 setup fee for creating a Web stream and will charge the entity streaming their event a daily fee of $100.00 perse. I know because I was asked to inquire about this for one of our other divisions several years ago. For this reason it's better to record these programs and post them to the Web after the convention is over saving the affiliate lots of bucks. I also worked with another affiliate that tried to stream its state convention three years in a row and met with minimal success. Not knowing the state of the NABS treasury and Because of the short time period between now and the national convention recording NABS activities and posting them to the NABS Link Web Site is far more practical than attempting to stream them live. While on the subject of streaming last year's national convention general sessions and the march for independent were streamed live. I haven't heard if we'll stream this year's national convention. All I can say is stay tuned to this channel for further information. And remember too that hearing the convention streamed only gives you half of the experience. You only get a total immersion experience by attending in person. Mary and I proved over and over again that not even the gates of Hell will keep you from attending this life-changing event. Right now we have some barriers to surmount, but we'll see many of you in Detroit in July. This year we're especially blessed by having someone here that can share an eye witness account of how we did it. Keep those offers of help coming. Peter Donahue "Given a chance to dream it can be done. The promise of tomorrow is real. Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all." Flying for Me, John Denver From jonte711 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 05:51:35 2009 From: jonte711 at gmail.com (jonte) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:51:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <49f152ba.07025a0a.346b.21ae@mx.google.com> Maybe a sound device in the cane is not very feasible, but I really do not think that the car companies are going to be extremely concerned with accommodating small minorities. Convincing them to put a sound device in these hybrid cars will take a very long time. I think that we should first explore all possible alternatives. Jonte -----Original Message----- From: Steve Jacobson Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:09 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Unfortunately, we can't just express a want for something and think that can make it happen. Try to first think how a hybrid car would be detectable among all the other cars. Then try to imagine what sort of feedback could be given by your cane that could be equal to even a small sound heard with your ears. It just isn't practical as far as I can see, and a small sound would also be useful to children and other pedestrians. I don't know how the laws read, bot most large trucks and fork lifts have loud warning beeps when they move already to warn everybody. We're asking for much less to avoid situations that could be much more dangerous. Best regards, Steve Jacobson >Original message: >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >> I think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the >> car companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> Thanks, >> Robby >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>> this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid >>> car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, >>> there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, >>> national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>> development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will >>> potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next >>> big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus >>> helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national >>> convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of >>> this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting >>> industy and inovation, not hindering it. >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further >>> economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the >>> bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >-- >REspectfully, >Jedi >Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com From cassonw at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 07:25:26 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:25:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act In-Reply-To: <49f152ba.07025a0a.346b.21ae@mx.google.com> References: <49f152ba.07025a0a.346b.21ae@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904240025t4b58a916mee3abe19916824@mail.gmail.com> I think the person who mentioned the deaf-blind has a really good point. I know someone who is in that situation and not hearing traffic and stuff makes travel more difficult. I wish we could take this as an oppertunity to research a solution for both since now the problem is the same i.e. not hearing cars. Bill VP Oregon Association of Blind Students 503-768-8982 cassonw at gmail.com On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 10:51 PM, jonte wrote: > Maybe a sound device in the cane is not very feasible, but I really do not > think that the car companies are going to be extremely concerned with > accommodating small minorities. Convincing them to put a sound device in > these hybrid cars will take a very long time. I think that we should first > explore all possible alternatives. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Jacobson > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > Unfortunately, we can't just express a want for something and think that > can make it happen. Try to first think how a > hybrid car would be detectable among all the other cars. Then try to > imagine what sort of > feedback could be given by your cane that could be equal to even a small > sound heard with your ears. It just isn't > practical as far as I can see, and a small sound would also be useful to > children and other pedestrians. I don't know > how the laws read, bot most large trucks and fork lifts have loud warning > beeps when they move already to warn > everybody. We're asking for much less to avoid situations that could be > much more dangerous. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > >Original message: > >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? > >> I think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the > >> car companies to accommodate us. > >> Jonte > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Robert Spangler > >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > >> Thanks, > >> Robby > > >> Jim Reed wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars > >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other > >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, > >>> dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. > > >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the > >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next > >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating > >>> this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid > >>> car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, > >>> there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, > >>> national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. > > >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and > >>> development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will > >>> potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next > >>> big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus > >>> helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national > >>> convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of > >>> this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting > >>> industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind > >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the > >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps > >>> in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel > methodologies? > > >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of > >>> societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further > >>> economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the > >>> bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. > > >>> Well thats my two cents > >>> Jim > > >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > > >> -- > >> Robert Spangler > >> The University of Toledo > >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary > >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > >-- > >REspectfully, > >Jedi > > >Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > >www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > >_______________________________________________ > >nabs-l mailing list > >nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 11:52:10 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:52:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Whowants to help? In-Reply-To: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26E994CFFA35441CA19CBDA9F42E45EC@Rufus> Jim, Very well done. What Peter says is true of webcasts. Yet, if you're as diligent in your initial planning, I would not be surprised if you found a way to procure funding from divisions or people in the NFB to make the project happen. We'll make the material available online after the fact. For now can-do, motivated people like yourself will see the project through completion. This is exactly the take-charge attitude I was hoping for, and whether it is webcast or audio recording, the project will succeed because you chose to step up and encourage others to come up with you. Sincerely, Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:31 PM To: NABS mail list Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Whowants to help? Hello all, Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to vollenter to help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview tomarrow), if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the ball rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest format, so its better to meail be directly) First, we need to find the equipment.    1  Does anybody have, or have access to,  high-end A/V recording equipment?    2.  If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the equipment.           1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those funda avaliable?           2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need to find out where.           3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off the gear.           4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be willing to allow us              to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on recording/production as a project.           5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the Detroit chapter to find local              resources. Any Michigan students on the list?    3.  Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the P.A. system that         will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? Next we need to focus on personell     1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several people willing to take         turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties?      2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound boards or what         not.      3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage      4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) Lastly, we need to contact the speaker      1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can plan accordingly.       2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material along with the video.       3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and upoaded.       4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and dated) permission from           the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials on the web. I know          Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take further action until I          see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, but verify." I hope to hear from you guys, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4031 (20090423) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4031 (20090423) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pajohns1 at vt.edu Fri Apr 24 12:35:28 2009 From: pajohns1 at vt.edu (pajohns1 at vt.edu) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:35:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hybrid Car warning sounds was Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act References: <49f152ba.07025a0a.346b.21ae@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8805C90AD7D34C76BB4F83A4373C9E7D@useripvq7z5u3t> List, First off research has already begun on incorporating a warning sound for hybrid cars at low speed. Stanford has published the results of one study examining a warning sound device. The study was published earlier this semester, ask your college librarian to track the article down if you're interested. Also, GM is funding projects at Virginia Tech and Wright State (and possibly other universities as well) to build and test warning systems. Last I heard road testing of the warning system for the Virginia Tech car would begin in the Fall '09 semester. Someone attending Wright State might be able to provide an update on their project. Patrick @Virginia Tech ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > Maybe a sound device in the cane is not very feasible, but I really do not > think that the car companies are going to be extremely concerned with > accommodating small minorities. Convincing them to put a sound device in > these hybrid cars will take a very long time. I think that we should first > explore all possible alternatives. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Jacobson > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 10:09 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > Unfortunately, we can't just express a want for something and think that > can make it happen. Try to first think how a > hybrid car would be detectable among all the other cars. Then try to > imagine what sort of > feedback could be given by your cane that could be equal to even a small > sound heard with your ears. It just isn't > practical as far as I can see, and a small sound would also be useful to > children and other pedestrians. I don't know > how the laws read, bot most large trucks and fork lifts have loud warning > beeps when they move already to warn > everybody. We're asking for much less to avoid situations that could be > much more dangerous. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > >>Original message: >>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>> I think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the >>> car companies to accommodate us. >>> Jonte > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Spangler >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > >>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > >>> Thanks, >>> Robby > >>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>> dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. > >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>> this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid >>>> car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, >>>> there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, >>>> national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. > >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>> development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will >>>> potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next >>>> big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus >>>> helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national >>>> convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of >>>> this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting >>>> industy and inovation, not hindering it. > >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>> in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>> methodologies? > >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further >>>> economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the >>>> bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. > >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim > >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > > >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>-- >>REspectfully, >>Jedi > >>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pajohns1%40vt.edu From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 24 16:13:52 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] National conference employment seminar Message-ID: <270224.91391.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Arielle, You may have missed part of the conversation. What we were discussing was recording the NFB national convention employment seminar so that it can be posted on the web afterwords so that all can access it. Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 24 17:59:44 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act References: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994@Ashley> Hi Jim, I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear being hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps you don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying you comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough risk in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we cannot hear. we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise on the car to hear it. I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot be independent if I am dead from a car crash. You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" To: "MAB List" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Hello, I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign oil, and enviromental damage. Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence of forign oil. There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) refuse to adapt. Well thats my two cents Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Fri Apr 24 18:07:38 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act References: <49f1187f.11045a0a.3fbb.ffffe4c5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Jont, I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes wear out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still a valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I > think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car > companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > Thanks, > Robby > > Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence >> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >> hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in >> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >> methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because >> I (we) refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 24 19:39:52 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> NABS board and officers, I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and successful employment counters stereotypes. I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar that could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know an answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, and I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of older people, proffessionals, and strangers? Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills and knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,  some of us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have never looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the education/training needs to start at the most basic level. I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should host its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point.  I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do so. Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading this on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and I have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and to the needs of their voters... Thanks, Jim   "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:34:14 2009 From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise Message-ID: Dear all listers, This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of students backing out due to financial circumstances. I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and Brussels. the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it never happened. my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not count anymore since they are no longer at school I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was pretty sad. I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom as a last resort. but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work that are a week's worth or more. She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor information because I would like to go too." I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her being with me all the time. I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much Good day, Priscilla Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects which I need help in. From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:44:34 2009 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan In-Reply-To: <720742.14610.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <720742.14610.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello List, I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but I noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind college student who resides in the state of Michigan. I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person for anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering any questions you might have about what resources might be available in our state. I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be of any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, please feel free to contact me off list. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 From jonte711 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:49:18 2009 From: jonte711 at gmail.com (jonte) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04@mx.google.com> Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane that would detect a hybrid car. I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been developed that could save my life. -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Jont, I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes wear out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still a valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I > think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car > companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > Thanks, > Robby > > Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence >> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >> hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in >> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >> methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because >> I (we) refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 21:59:23 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to hiring a reader or something along those lines. So thinkabout it. Mary On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad with > me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of the > fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help me > but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go because > I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to > give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor > information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 times > for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how to > travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to > learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring > for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects > which I need help in. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From anna.parker.11 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 22:13:05 2009 From: anna.parker.11 at gmail.com (anna parker) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act In-Reply-To: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994@Ashley> References: <253786.6402.qm@web65715.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994@Ashley> Message-ID: i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people who can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because i do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be done now On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Jim, > I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for > our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the > street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear being > hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps you > don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying you > comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. > You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough risk > in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors > automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we cannot > hear. > > we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise on > the car to hear it. > I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot be > independent if I am dead from a car crash. > > You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others > will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on > this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this > one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" > To: "MAB List" > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > > Hello, > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars > might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, > there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on > forign oil, and enviromental damage. > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support > or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap in > our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it > may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the impact > of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant > nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a dependence > of forign oil. > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development of > hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the > savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could > jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and > individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you > will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic collapes. > Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind > persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the changing > world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era of > silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal > progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic decline. > I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) > refuse to adapt. > > Well thats my two cents > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com > From anna.parker.11 at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 22:29:55 2009 From: anna.parker.11 at gmail.com (anna parker) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan In-Reply-To: References: <720742.14610.qm@web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hey Elizabeth my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if youd like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me Anna On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth wrote: > > Hello List, > > I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but I > noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from > Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an > active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind college > student who resides in the state of Michigan. > > I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within > our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person for > anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering any > questions you might have about what resources might be available in our > state. > > I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to > unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of > the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are > over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be of > any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, please > feel free to contact me off list. > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry > > http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com > From taiablas at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 22:45:50 2009 From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Who wants to help? In-Reply-To: References: <111970.47958.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <26d2dfeb0904231916u2fe67d74q600e408beefebcf4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the convention. He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use his equipment. contact him at the national center. Tai Blas -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. Who wants to help? Hi again, Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career seminar. (It's been a long week!) Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. Arielle On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Jim and all, > > My understanding is that there is already going to be a general > employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least > that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete > with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about > hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of > the year. > > I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an > advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the > agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven > other national conventions I've attended thus far. > > Arielle Silverman > First Vice-President, NABS > > On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. >> >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention career >>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>> vollenter >>> to >>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>> tomarrow), >>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>> ball >>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>> >>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>> equipment? >>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the >>> equipment. >>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>> funda >>> avaliable? >>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need >>> to >>> find out where. >>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >>> the >>> gear. >>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be >>> willing to allow us >>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>> recording/production as a project. >>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >>> Detroit chapter to find local >>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>> P.A. >>> system that >>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>> >>> Next we need to focus on personell >>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>> people >>> willing to take >>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>> boards >>> or what >>> not. >>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>> >>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>> plan >>> accordingly. >>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >>> along with the video. >>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and >>> upoaded. >>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>> dated) permission from >>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials >>> on >>> the web. I know >>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take >>> further action until I >>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >>> but >>> verify." >>> >>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co m >> > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 23:10:28 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a blast. I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under your mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take responsibility. Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability services in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They can not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. Just some ideas. Sincerely, Mandarino -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of priscilla Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise Dear all listers, This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of students backing out due to financial circumstances. I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and Brussels. the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it never happened. my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not count anymore since they are no longer at school I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was pretty sad. I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom as a last resort. but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work that are a week's worth or more. She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor information because I would like to go too." I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her being with me all the time. I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much Good day, Priscilla Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects which I need help in. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 00:10:31 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're not that. Beth On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option > posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study > abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to > make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal > adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education > credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a blast. > > I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a > pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under your > mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take > responsibility. > > Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability services > in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running > out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my > additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They can > not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. > > Just some ideas. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of priscilla > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad with > me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of the > fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help me > but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go because > I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to > give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor > information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 times > for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how to > travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to > learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring > for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects > which I need help in. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Apr 25 01:09:50 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind or, simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a younger friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him a free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I know he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's international, so has different values than the average sighted American. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a > student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes > us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're > not that. > Beth > > On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >> blast. >> >> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >> your >> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >> responsibility. >> >> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >> services >> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >> can >> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >> >> Just some ideas. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of priscilla >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >> of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >> and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >> me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >> mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >> to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >> was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >> because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >> because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >> mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >> to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >> to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >> used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >> but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >> support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >> they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >> up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 01:31:04 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the average sighted American? This is weird. I know international students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the general sighted public is so self-centered these days. Beth On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: > I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that > students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, > regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My > senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I > asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody > wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind or, > simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a younger > friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him a > free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I know > he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's international, > so has different values than the average sighted American. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > >>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >> not that. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>> blast. >>> >>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>> your >>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>> services >>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>> can >>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>> Just some ideas. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of priscilla >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Apr 25 02:23:57 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com><002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > Question: how do international peopl have different values than the > average sighted American? This is weird. I know international > students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the > general sighted public is so self-centered these days. > Beth > > On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >> or, >> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >> younger >> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >> a >> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >> know >> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >> international, >> so has different values than the average sighted American. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>> not that. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>> option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>> education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>> a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>> of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>> help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>> can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>> moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>> how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>> to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 02:53:46 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material Message-ID: <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5@mail.gmail.com> Hello Everyone, I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Domonique Lawless From habnkid at aol.com Sat Apr 25 03:31:39 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405@aol.com> Hi Mark, I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. Haben mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most of > my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than persons > with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a disability > whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be > disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a particular > kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem is in > me. > > That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we think > about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we are > referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up > using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to > correct someone who said persons with disabilities. > > However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of Canada's > major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the > "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I > raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't > stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I say > it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about disability. > To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it only > seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our > institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, there > was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a > legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When > women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and this > could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that the > designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the > building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. Far > too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into > consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to be > change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets > labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the special > needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the > language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and it > gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about disability > differently. > > A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a disability, > which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability anyway > you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and for > the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't think > it's the right way of looking at it. > > Best, > > Marc > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > Behalf Of Haben Girma > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > > > Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with > disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the > problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so > that blame is not places on the characteristics? > > Haben > > mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >> > this > >> topic. >> >> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What I >> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness >> > is > >> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, blindness >> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >> factors. >> >> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem >> > to > >> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to blindness. >> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >> > short, > >> society itself, were different. >> >> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time >> > and > >> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >> > Canadians. > >> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges >> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in a >> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >> > viewed > >> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to >> > be > >> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >> > training > >> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >> > experiments > >> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be blind? >> > I > >> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >> > we'll > >> never really know for sure. >> >> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >> >> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is not >> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but >> > you > >> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more >> > than > >> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess >> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess the >> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those cases, >> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually result >> > in > >> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's >> hoping anyways. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> Marc, >> >> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a physical >> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about >> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >> >> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of >> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary >> works in Braille. >> >> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> > question? > >> >> >>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>> > which, > >>> I >>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>> > some > >>> of you. >>> >>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified >>> in >>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>> Impairments, >>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>> >>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait >>> or >>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be >>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless >>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>> contexts, >>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>> imposed >>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>> >>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>> > building. > >>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than >>> me >>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect >>> to >>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in >>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >>> significantly impact on their lives. >>> >>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, >>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>> > make > >>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>> these >>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My >>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had >>> > in > >>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>> since >>> I read his work. >>> >>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>> that's >>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>> > disability. > >>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >>> were >>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled >>> in >>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >>> then >>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>> >>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it >>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>> quotation >>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the >>> position I've outlined. >>> >>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>> problem >>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>> person >>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>> physical >>> nuisance. >>> >>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye >>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of >>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> >>> >>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>> >>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, >>> we >>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>> > major > >>> life function, sight. >>> >>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>> > blind > >>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>> >>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, >>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>> >>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>> ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >> ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > From JWilson at nfb.org Sat Apr 25 03:44:07 2009 From: JWilson at nfb.org (Wilson, Joanne) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program Message-ID: Free White Cane Message If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to jwilson at nfb.org. Thanks, Joanne Wilson Affiliate Action Executive Director 410-659-9314 extension 2335 jwilson at nfb.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Free White Cane Message.doc Type: application/msword Size: 30208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From habnkid at aol.com Sat Apr 25 04:10:38 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com><002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing to help. Haben Serena wrote: > I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me > any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more > overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who > went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found > anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my > sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz > they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > >> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>> acquaintances. My >>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>> Adventure. I >>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>> nobody >>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>> blind or, >>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> younger >>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>> him a >>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>> I know >>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> international, >>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>> study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>> them, so to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>> a legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>> will be a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>> under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>> all my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>> They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>> studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>> because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>> abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>> Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>> concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>> travel with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>> because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>> because of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>> does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>> explained to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>> which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>> situation and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>> to help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>> I am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>> depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>> school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>> from work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>> willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>> get moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>> to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>> trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>> deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>> signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>> learn how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>> excited to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Apr 25 06:15:41 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are dead wrong. Original message: > Hi Mark, > I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" > are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read > it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" > or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full > participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these > terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would > take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" > means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone > with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and > think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would > probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than > the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. > Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a > negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term > "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons > before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the > term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a > "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred > impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm > where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, > can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons > with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the > disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess > disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" > because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. > So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would > seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with > disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms > can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and > I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid > thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be > nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all > kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's > especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > Haben > mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most of >> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than persons >> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a disability >> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a particular >> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem is in >> me. >> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we think >> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we are >> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of Canada's >> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I say >> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about disability. >> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it only >> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, there >> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and this >> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that the >> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. Far >> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to be >> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the special >> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and it >> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about disability >> differently. >> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a disability, >> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability anyway >> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and for >> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't think >> it's the right way of looking at it. >> Best, >> Marc >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> Haben >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >> this >>> topic. >>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What I >>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness >> is >>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, blindness >>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>> factors. >>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem >> to >>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to blindness. >>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >> short, >>> society itself, were different. >>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time >> and >>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >> Canadians. >>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges >>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in a >>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >> viewed >>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to >> be >>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >> training >>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >> experiments >>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be blind? >> I >>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >> we'll >>> never really know for sure. >>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is not >>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but >> you >>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more >> than >>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess >>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess the >>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those cases, >>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually result >> in >>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's >>> hoping anyways. >>> Best, >>> Marc >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> Marc, >>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a physical >>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about >>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of >>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary >>> works in Braille. >>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >> which, >>>> I >>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >> some >>>> of you. >>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even codified >>>> in >>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>> Impairments, >>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any trait >>>> or >>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could be >>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially meaningless >>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>> contexts, >>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>> imposed >>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >> building. >>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled than >>>> me >>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with respect >>>> to >>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators in >>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social arrangements, >>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >> make >>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>> these >>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. My >>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had >> in >>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>> since >>>> I read his work. >>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>> that's >>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >> disability. >>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >>>> were >>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as disabled >>>> in >>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >>>> then >>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put it >>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>> quotation >>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support the >>>> position I've outlined. >>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>> problem >>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>> person >>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>> physical >>>> nuisance. >>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of eye >>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack of >>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>> Best, >>>> Marc >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled students, >>>> we >>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >> major >>>> life function, sight. >>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >> blind >>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive attitude, >>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> ca >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> ca >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> ca >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 25 19:34:14 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:34:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] GRE prep Message-ID: <124499.84038.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all,  I dont know what accesable materials are out there, but I do know that many testing centers and universities host GRE prep classes (they are expensive). Additionally, when you sign up for the test, GRE does (or at least used to) send a free CR ROM prep program. But having taken the GRE and attempted to study for it, I can say that based on my experience, it is a monumental task to think you can study/prep for it enough to dramaticly increase your score. For example, within the vocabulary section of my GRE prep book, there is a list of 200 or so words, and I had never even heard of 175 of them, let alone know what they mean. What I would encourage you to do is take an online practice exam, review your score, then make your prep plans according to your satisfaction with that score. BTW, if you need accomidations for the GRE, you MUST NOT use the standard GRE sign up process. There is a special sign up process for those needing accomidations (sorry, I don't remember the exact proces. My memory is foggy on this issue, but it seems like folks needing accomidations need to call to sign up for an accessable test, and they must provide proof of their disability). I did not realize this when I signed up, and it lead to all sorts of problems including 1) almost not being able to take the exam AND not getting my money refunded. 2) The GRE temporaraliy lost my scores. Lastly, the GRE has switched almost exclusivly to computer-based test formats, although in special situations paper formats can be avaliable. You need to find out if a Braille version is avaliable, then you need to decide if it would be to your advantage to take the Braille or the computer version. Also, if you take the computer version, dont plan on being able to use JAWS, ZoomText, or any other accesability software. At my testing center, the test computer had NOTHING on it, and there was NO WAY to install any accessability software (the CD drive was bolted shut). Other than being able to manually turn the computer on and off, the testing center has no control of the computer; the computer is EXCLUSIVLY controled by GRE. Also, you are not allowed to take ANYTHING into the testing room that was not preapproved by GRE; not your wallet, and in my case, not even a magnifying glass. Good luck, and I hope this helps Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 25 19:52:28 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:52:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] GRE discrimination? Message-ID: <988594.61608.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, If you read my last post titled "GRE prep", you read that there is no accessability software on the GRE testing computers, and no way to install accesability software on the testing computers. This is crap! There is absolutly no reason testing computers shouldnt/couldnt be set up to allow for accesability software. As I said in my last message, I did not sign up for an accomidated test, so I am not sure if the GRE has some way to allow for accessable software to be used, all I know is there was no way to install it on the testing computer. This may be something for the NABS to look into... Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sat Apr 25 20:29:34 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:29:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Paying for the GRE Message-ID: <916387.43231.qm@web65705.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> WARNING!! The GRE is not cheap! It was like $150 when I took it. Consider tryingf to find a scholarship or other funding to pay for it. At the time I was taking the test, I worked for a company that had an employee scholarship program, and I conmvinced them to pick up the cost of the exam. I am not sure how common this is, but it worked for me, and it may work for you. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 25 23:13:48 2009 From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:13:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hey all, I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on the trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what really annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and stuff. another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out the legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to approve it. but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, because of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with disabilities services. I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. what do you all think? Thank you very much. I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need deposits in as soon as possible. -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM To: Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) > 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) > 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) > 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) > 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) > 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) > 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) > 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) > 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) > 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. > Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) > 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) > 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) > 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) > 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) > 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) > 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) > 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > (Haben Girma) > 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) > 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) > 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Jim, > I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for > our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the > street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear being > hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps > you > don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying > you > comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. > You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough > risk > in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors > automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we > cannot > hear. > > we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise > on > the car to hear it. > I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot > be > independent if I am dead from a car crash. > > You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others > will > fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. > We > are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, that > silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Reed" > To: "MAB List" > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > > Hello, > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars > might > pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, > there > is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign > oil, > and enviromental damage. > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support > or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap > in > our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it > may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the > impact > of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant > nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a > dependence > of forign oil. > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development > of > hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the > savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could > jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and > individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you > will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic > collapes. > Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind > persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the > changing > world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era > of > silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal > progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic > decline. > I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) > refuse to adapt. > > Well thats my two cents > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4033 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Jont, > I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to > detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane > heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will > drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes > wear > out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off > and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. > > Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. > Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still > a > valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jonte" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >> companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence >>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>> Detroit, >>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>> hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in >>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>> methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>> because >>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Reed > Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment > seminars > To: NABS mail list > Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > NABS board and officers, > > I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job > training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and > successful employment counters stereotypes. > > I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value > associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar that > could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For > example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know an > answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, and > I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all > students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If > they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will > ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of > older people, proffessionals, and strangers? > > Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills and > knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some of > us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have never > looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the > education/training needs to start at the most basic level. > > I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should host > its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. > > ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention > efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not > compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is > availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a > NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of > project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. > > I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do so. > Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading this > on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; > they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough > phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and I > have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and > to the needs of their voters... > > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > ? > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 > From: "priscilla" > Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad > with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of > the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help > me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are > willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will > get moor information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 > times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how > to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited > to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get > tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for > projects which I need help in. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 > From: Elizabeth > Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hello List, > > I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but I > noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from > Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an > active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind > college student who resides in the state of Michigan. > > I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within > our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person > for anything related to the upcoming national convention including > answering any questions you might have about what resources might be > available in our state. > > I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to > unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of > the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are > over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be of > any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, > please feel free to contact me off list. > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry > http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 > From: jonte > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane > that would detect a hybrid car. > I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not > throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been > developed that could save my life. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > Jont, > I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to > detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane > heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will > drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes > wear > out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off > and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. > > Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. > Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still > a > valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jonte" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >> companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence >>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>> Detroit, >>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>> hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in >>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>> methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>> because >>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 > From: Mary Fernandez > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the > trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two > students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do > it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go > alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of > them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely > on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. > This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to > hiring a reader or something along those lines. > So thinkabout it. > Mary > > On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >> of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >> and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >> me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >> mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >> to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >> was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >> because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >> because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >> mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >> to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >> to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >> used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >> but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >> support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >> they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >> up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 > From: anna parker > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people who > can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because i > do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough > crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i > strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be done > now > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett > > wrote: > >> Hi Jim, >> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for >> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the >> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >> being >> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >> you >> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >> you >> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >> risk >> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >> cannot >> hear. >> >> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >> on >> the car to hear it. >> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >> be >> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >> >> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this >> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >> To: "MAB List" >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, >> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support >> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap >> in >> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >> it >> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >> impact >> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >> importiant >> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >> dependence >> of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of >> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you >> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. >> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing >> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >> of >> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. >> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >> refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 > From: anna parker > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > hey Elizabeth > my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if youd > like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming > sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me > Anna > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth wrote: > >> >> Hello List, >> >> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but >> I >> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from >> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an >> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >> college >> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >> >> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >> for >> anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering >> any >> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >> state. >> >> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of >> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are >> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >> of >> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >> please >> feel free to contact me off list. >> >> Elizabeth >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >> >> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 > From: "Tai Blas" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career > seminar. Who wants to help? > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the > convention. > He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use > his > equipment. contact him at the national center. > Tai Blas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career > seminar. > Who wants to help? > > Hi again, > > Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this > thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career > seminar. (It's been a long week!) > > Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need > to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention > general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, > who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the > right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. > > Arielle > > On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Jim and all, >> >> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >> the year. >> >> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >> >> Arielle Silverman >> First Vice-President, NABS >> >> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>> career >>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>> vollenter >>>> to >>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>> tomarrow), >>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>> ball >>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>> >>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>> equipment? >>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide >>>> the >>>> equipment. >>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>> funda >>>> avaliable? >>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need >>>> to >>>> find out where. >>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >>>> the >>>> gear. >>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would >>>> be >>>> willing to allow us >>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>> recording/production as a project. >>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>> P.A. >>>> system that >>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>> >>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>> people >>>> willing to take >>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>> boards >>>> or what >>>> not. >>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>> >>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>>> plan >>>> accordingly. >>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >>>> along with the video. >>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned >>>> and >>>> upoaded. >>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>>> dated) permission from >>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials >>>> on >>>> the web. I know >>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont >>>> take >>>> further action until I >>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >>>> but >>>> verify." >>>> >>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co > m >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 > From: "Jason Mandarino" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option > posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study > abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to > make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal > adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education > credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a > blast. > > I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a > pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under > your > mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take > responsibility. > > Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability > services > in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running > out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my > additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They > can > not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. > > Just some ideas. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of priscilla > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad > with > me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of > the > fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help > me > but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > because > I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to > give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor > information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 > times > for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how > to > travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to > learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring > for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects > which I need help in. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a > student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes > us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're > not that. > Beth > > On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >> blast. >> >> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >> your >> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >> responsibility. >> >> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >> services >> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >> can >> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >> >> Just some ideas. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of priscilla >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >> of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >> and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >> me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >> mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >> to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >> was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >> because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >> because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >> mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >> to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >> to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >> used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >> but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >> support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >> they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >> up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 > From: "Serena" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that > students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, > regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My > senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I > asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody > wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind > or, > simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a younger > friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him a > free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I know > he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's > international, > so has different values than the average sighted American. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > >>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >> not that. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>> to >>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>> legal >>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>> blast. >>> >>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>> your >>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>> services >>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>> running >>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>> can >>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>> Just some ideas. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of priscilla >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>> with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>> to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>> and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>> work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Question: how do international peopl have different values than the > average sighted American? This is weird. I know international > students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the > general sighted public is so self-centered these days. > Beth > > On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >> or, >> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >> younger >> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >> a >> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >> know >> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >> international, >> so has different values than the average sighted American. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>> not that. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>> option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>> education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>> a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>> of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>> help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>> can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>> moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>> how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>> to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 > From: "Serena" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any > differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more > overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who went > with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone else > to > go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted classmates > would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or > acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > >> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>> My >>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>> I >>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>> nobody >>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>> or, >>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> younger >>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>> a >>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>> know >>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> international, >>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>> study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>> my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>> They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>> studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>> because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>> for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>> it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>> not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>> am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>> school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>> willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>> her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>> the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>> signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 > From: Domonique Lawless > Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Everyone, > > I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what > accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done > to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right > direction I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Domonique Lawless > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 > From: Haben Girma > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > Hi Mark, > > I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" > are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read > it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" > or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full > participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these > terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would > take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" > means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone > with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and > think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would > probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than > the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. > Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a > negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term > "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons > before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the > term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a > "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred > impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm > where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, > can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons > with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the > disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess > disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" > because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. > So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would > seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with > disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms > can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and > I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > > Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid > thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be > nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all > kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's > especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > > Haben > > mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most >> of >> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >> persons >> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >> disability >> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a particular >> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem is >> in >> me. >> >> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >> think >> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >> are >> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> >> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of Canada's >> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >> say >> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >> disability. >> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >> only >> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, there >> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >> this >> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that >> the >> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >> Far >> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to be >> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >> special >> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >> it >> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >> disability >> differently. >> >> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >> disability, >> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >> anyway >> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >> for >> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't think >> it's the right way of looking at it. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> >> Haben >> >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >>> >> this >> >>> topic. >>> >>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What >>> I >>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness >>> >> is >> >>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>> blindness >>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>> factors. >>> >>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem >>> >> to >> >>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>> blindness. >>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>> >> short, >> >>> society itself, were different. >>> >>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time >>> >> and >> >>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>> >> Canadians. >> >>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges >>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in >>> a >>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>> >> viewed >> >>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to >>> >> be >> >>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>> >> training >> >>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>> >> experiments >> >>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>> blind? >>> >> I >> >>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>> >> we'll >> >>> never really know for sure. >>> >>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>> >>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>> not >>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but >>> >> you >> >>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more >>> >> than >> >>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess >>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>> the >>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>> cases, >>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>> result >>> >> in >> >>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's >>> hoping anyways. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> >>> >>> Marc, >>> >>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>> physical >>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about >>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>> >>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>> of >>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>> literary >>> works in Braille. >>> >>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> >> question? >> >>> >>> >>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>> >> which, >> >>>> I >>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>>> >> some >> >>>> of you. >>>> >>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>> codified >>>> in >>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>> Impairments, >>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>> >>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>> trait >>>> or >>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could >>>> be >>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>> meaningless >>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>> contexts, >>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>> imposed >>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>> >>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>> >> building. >> >>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>> than >>>> me >>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>> respect >>>> to >>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators >>>> in >>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>> >>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>> arrangements, >>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>>> >> make >> >>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>> these >>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>> My >>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had >>>> >> in >> >>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>> since >>>> I read his work. >>>> >>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>> that's >>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>> >> disability. >> >>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >>>> were >>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>> disabled >>>> in >>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >>>> then >>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>> >>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put >>>> it >>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>> quotation >>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>> the >>>> position I've outlined. >>>> >>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>> problem >>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>> person >>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>> physical >>>> nuisance. >>>> >>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>> eye >>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack >>>> of >>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>> >>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>> students, >>>> we >>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>> >> major >> >>>> life function, sight. >>>> >>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>> >> blind >> >>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>> >>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>> attitude, >>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>> >>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>> ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 > From: "Wilson, Joanne" (by way of David Andrews > ) > Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > > Free White Cane Message > > If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane > Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach > materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about > getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if > you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to > say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, > self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a > paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White > Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to > jwilson at nfb.org. > > Thanks, > Joanne Wilson > Affiliate Action Executive Director > 410-659-9314 extension 2335 > jwilson at nfb.org > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Free White Cane Message.doc > Type: application/msword > Size: 30208 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 > From: Haben Girma > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing > to help. > > Haben > > Serena wrote: >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>> acquaintances. My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>> Adventure. I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>> blind or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>> him a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>> I know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>> them, so to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>> a legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>> will be a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>> under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>> all my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>> abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>> concerns for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>> travel with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>> because it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>> because of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>> does not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>> explained to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>> which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>> situation and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>> to help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>> I am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>> depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>> from work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>> get moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>> to her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>> trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>> deposit the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>> learn how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>> excited to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 > From: Jedi > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541 at web2.serotek.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" > > Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or > intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." > Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." > we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a > lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases > that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or > stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would > argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a > disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward > when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also > argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the > stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is > something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote > an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting > article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people > qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they > will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are > dead wrong. > Original message: > >> Hi Mark, > >> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > >> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > >> Haben > >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most >>> of >>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>> persons >>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>> disability >>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>> particular >>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>> is in >>> me. > >>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>> think >>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>> are >>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. > >>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>> Canada's >>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>> say >>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>> disability. >>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>> only >>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>> there >>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>> this >>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that >>> the >>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>> Far >>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>> be >>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>> special >>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>> it >>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>> disability >>> differently. > >>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>> disability, >>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>> anyway >>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>> for >>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>> think >>> it's the right way of looking at it. > >>> Best, > >>> Marc > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? > > >>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? > >>> Haben > >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with > >>> this > >>>> topic. > >>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>> What I >>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>> blindness > >>> is > >>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>> blindness >>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>> factors. > >>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>> seem > >>> to > >>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>> blindness. >>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in > >>> short, > >>>> society itself, were different. > >>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>> time > >>> and > >>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind > >>> Canadians. > >>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>> challenges >>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>> in a >>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was > >>> viewed > >>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>> to > >>> be > >>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best > >>> training > >>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought > >>> experiments > >>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>> blind? > >>> I > >>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, > >>> we'll > >>>> never really know for sure. > >>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > >>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>> not >>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>> but > >>> you > >>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more > >>> than > >>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>> possess >>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>> the >>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>> cases, >>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>> result > >>> in > >>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>> Here's >>>> hoping anyways. > >>>> Best, > >>>> Marc > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? > > >>>> Marc, > >>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>> physical >>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>> about >>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > >>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. > >>>> Antonio Guimaraes > >>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>> pickup >>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>> of >>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>> literary >>>> works in Braille. > >>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>> question? > > > >>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with > >>> which, > >>>>> I >>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade > >>> some > >>>>> of you. > >>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>> codified >>>>> in >>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>> Impairments, >>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. > >>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>> trait >>>>> or >>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could >>>>> be >>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>> meaningless >>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>> contexts, >>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>> imposed >>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. > >>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my > >>> building. > >>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>> many >>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>> than >>>>> me >>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>> respect >>>>> to >>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators >>>>> in >>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>> in >>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>> not >>>>> significantly impact on their lives. > >>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>> arrangements, >>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that > >>> make > >>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>>> these >>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>> My >>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>> had > >>> in > >>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>>> since >>>>> I read his work. > >>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>> that's >>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of > >>> disability. > >>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>> law >>>>> were >>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>> disabled >>>>> in >>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>> available, >>>>> then >>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > >>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put >>>>> it >>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>> quotation >>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>> the >>>>> position I've outlined. > >>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>> problem >>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>>> person >>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>> physical >>>>> nuisance. > >>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>> eye >>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack >>>>> of >>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>> the >>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Marc > >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? > > >>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > >>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>> students, >>>>> we >>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a > >>> major > >>>>> life function, sight. > >>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for > >>> blind > >>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > >>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>> my >>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>> attitude, >>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. > >>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>>>> ca > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>>> ca > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> ca > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 > ************************************** > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 23:35:43 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:35:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0904251635n4d6c072bueb30728e7f89724b@mail.gmail.com> I think you should just go. Why bother with compliance and stuff? Why bother with liability? FSU would be very happy to let me go to London to studyabroad. I don't think I would haveany troble. Everybod here is really adamant that I be as independent as possible. But just for kicks, I'd bring a friend because I am a woman, and I don't want toget raped and possibly haveto go through the laws that the country has regarding rape. The good new is you're not going to Saudi Arabia, where a blind woman was put in jail for premarital sex since she couldn't identify her rapist. Sad. Beth On 4/25/09, priscilla wrote: > hey all, > I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. > but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on the > trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what really > annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and > stuff. > another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out the > legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to approve > it. > but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have > someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, because > of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with > disabilities services. > I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. > what do you all think? > > Thank you very much. > I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need > deposits in as soon as possible. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM > To: > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 > >> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >> 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >> 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) >> 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) >> 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) >> 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) >> 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) >> 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) >> 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) >> 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. >> Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) >> 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) >> 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >> 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >> 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >> 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >> 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) >> 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? >> (Haben Girma) >> 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) >> 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) >> 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi Jim, >> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for >> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the >> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear being >> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >> you >> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >> you >> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >> risk >> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >> cannot >> hear. >> >> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >> on >> the car to hear it. >> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >> be >> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >> >> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >> will >> fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. >> We >> are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, that >> silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Reed" >> To: "MAB List" >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might >> pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, >> there >> is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign >> oil, >> and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support >> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap >> in >> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it >> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >> impact >> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant >> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >> dependence >> of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of >> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you >> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. >> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing >> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >> of >> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. >> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >> refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Jont, >> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will >> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >> wear >> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off >> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >> >> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still >> >> a >> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "jonte" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>> companies to accommodate us. >>> Jonte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Spangler >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>> dependence >>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>> >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>> >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>> Detroit, >>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>> hindering it. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>> in >>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>> methodologies? >>>> >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal >>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>> because >>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>> >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Jim Reed >> Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment >> seminars >> To: NABS mail list >> Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> NABS board and officers, >> >> I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job >> training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and >> successful employment counters stereotypes. >> >> I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value >> associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar that >> >> could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For >> example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know an >> >> answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, and >> >> I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all >> students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If >> they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will >> ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of >> older people, proffessionals, and strangers? >> >> Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills and >> >> knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some of >> us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have never >> >> looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the >> education/training needs to start at the most basic level. >> >> I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should host >> >> its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. >> >> ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention >> efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not >> compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is >> availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a >> NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of >> project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. >> >> I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do so. >> >> Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading this >> on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; >> they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough >> phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and I >> >> have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and >> to the needs of their voters... >> >> Thanks, >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> ? >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 >> From: "priscilla" >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of >> >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and >> >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me >> >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned >> >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to >> >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was >> >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because >> >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because >> >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom >> >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to >> >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >> willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >> >> get moor information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used >> >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but >> >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they >> >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up >> >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >> to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> >> projects which I need help in. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 >> From: Elizabeth >> Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Hello List, >> >> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but I >> >> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from >> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an >> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >> college student who resides in the state of Michigan. >> >> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >> for anything related to the upcoming national convention including >> answering any questions you might have about what resources might be >> available in our state. >> >> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of >> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are >> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be of >> >> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >> please feel free to contact me off list. >> >> Elizabeth >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 >> From: jonte >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane >> that would detect a hybrid car. >> I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not >> throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been >> developed that could save my life. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> Jont, >> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will >> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >> wear >> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off >> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >> >> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still >> >> a >> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "jonte" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>> companies to accommodate us. >>> Jonte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Spangler >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>> dependence >>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>> >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>> >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>> Detroit, >>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>> hindering it. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>> in >>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>> methodologies? >>>> >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal >>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>> because >>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>> >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 >> From: Mary Fernandez >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the >> trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two >> students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do >> it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go >> alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of >> them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely >> on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. >> This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to >> hiring a reader or something along those lines. >> So thinkabout it. >> Mary >> >> On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> President Barack Obama >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 >> From: anna parker >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people who >> can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because i >> do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough >> crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i >> strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be done >> now >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett >> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jim, >>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for >>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the >>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>> being >>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>> you >>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >>> you >>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>> risk >>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>> cannot >>> hear. >>> >>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >>> on >>> the car to hear it. >>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >>> be >>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>> >>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >>> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this >>> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >>> To: "MAB List" >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, >>> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >>> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support >>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap >>> >>> in >>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>> it >>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>> impact >>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>> importiant >>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>> dependence >>> of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of >>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you >>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. >>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing >>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >>> of >>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. >>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>> refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 >> From: anna parker >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> hey Elizabeth >> my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if youd >> like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming >> sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me >> Anna >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth wrote: >> >>> >>> Hello List, >>> >>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but >>> I >>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from >>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an >>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>> college >>> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>> >>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >>> for >>> anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering >>> any >>> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >>> state. >>> >>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of >>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are >>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>> of >>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>> please >>> feel free to contact me off list. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>> >>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 >> From: "Tai Blas" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >> seminar. Who wants to help? >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the >> convention. >> He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use >> his >> equipment. contact him at the national center. >> Tai Blas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >> seminar. >> Who wants to help? >> >> Hi again, >> >> Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this >> thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career >> seminar. (It's been a long week!) >> >> Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need >> to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention >> general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, >> who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the >> right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Jim and all, >>> >>> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >>> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >>> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >>> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >>> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >>> the year. >>> >>> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >>> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >>> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >>> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >>> >>> Arielle Silverman >>> First Vice-President, NABS >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>>> career >>>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>>> vollenter >>>>> to >>>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>>> tomarrow), >>>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>>> ball >>>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >>>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>>> >>>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>>> equipment? >>>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide >>>>> the >>>>> equipment. >>>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>>> funda >>>>> avaliable? >>>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need >>>>> to >>>>> find out where. >>>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >>>>> the >>>>> gear. >>>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would >>>>> be >>>>> willing to allow us >>>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>>> recording/production as a project. >>>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >>>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>>> P.A. >>>>> system that >>>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>>> >>>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>>> people >>>>> willing to take >>>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >>>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>>> boards >>>>> or what >>>>> not. >>>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>>>> plan >>>>> accordingly. >>>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >>>>> along with the video. >>>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned >>>>> and >>>>> upoaded. >>>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>>>> dated) permission from >>>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials >>>>> on >>>>> the web. I know >>>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont >>>>> take >>>>> further action until I >>>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >>>>> but >>>>> verify." >>>>> >>>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co >> m >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 >> From: "Jason Mandarino" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >> blast. >> >> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >> your >> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >> responsibility. >> >> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >> services >> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >> can >> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >> >> Just some ideas. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of priscilla >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 >> From: Beth >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >> not that. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>> blast. >>> >>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>> your >>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>> services >>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>> can >>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>> Just some ideas. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of priscilla >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 >> From: "Serena" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >> or, >> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a younger >> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him a >> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I know >> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >> international, >> so has different values than the average sighted American. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>> not that. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 >> From: Beth >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>> or, >>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> younger >>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>> a >>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>> know >>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> international, >>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 >> From: "Serena" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any >> differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who went >> with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone else >> to >> go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted classmates >> would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or >> acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>> My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>> I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>>> or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>>> a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>> know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>>> to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>> legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>>> a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>> my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>> for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>> with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>> it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>> not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>>> to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>> and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>> help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>> am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>> work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>> moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>> her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>> the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 16 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 >> From: Domonique Lawless >> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what >> accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done >> to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right >> direction I would greatly appreciate it. >> >> Thanks, >> Domonique Lawless >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 17 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 >> From: Haben Girma >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405 at aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >> >> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >> >> Haben >> >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most >>> of >>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>> persons >>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>> disability >>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a particular >>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem is >>> >>> in >>> me. >>> >>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>> think >>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>> are >>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>> >>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of Canada's >>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>> say >>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>> disability. >>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>> only >>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, there >>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>> this >>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that >>> the >>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>> Far >>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to be >>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>> special >>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>> it >>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>> disability >>> differently. >>> >>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>> disability, >>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>> anyway >>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>> for >>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't think >>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> >>> >>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> >>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >>>> >>> this >>> >>>> topic. >>>> >>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What >>>> >>>> I >>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness >>>> >>> is >>> >>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>> blindness >>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>> factors. >>>> >>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>> blindness. >>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>> >>> short, >>> >>>> society itself, were different. >>>> >>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time >>>> >>> and >>> >>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>> >>> Canadians. >>> >>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges >>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in >>>> >>>> a >>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>> >>> viewed >>> >>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to >>>> >>> be >>> >>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>> >>> training >>> >>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>> >>> experiments >>> >>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>> blind? >>>> >>> I >>> >>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>>> >>> we'll >>> >>>> never really know for sure. >>>> >>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>> >>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>> not >>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but >>>> >>> you >>> >>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more >>>> >>> than >>> >>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess >>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>> the >>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>> cases, >>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>> result >>>> >>> in >>> >>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's >>>> hoping anyways. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>> Marc, >>>> >>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>> physical >>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about >>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>> >>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>>> >>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>> >>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>> of >>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>> literary >>>> works in Braille. >>>> >>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> >>> question? >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>>> >>> which, >>> >>>>> I >>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>>>> >>> some >>> >>>>> of you. >>>>> >>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>> codified >>>>> in >>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>> Impairments, >>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>>> >>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>> trait >>>>> or >>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could >>>>> be >>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>> meaningless >>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>> contexts, >>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>> imposed >>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>>> >>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>>> >>> building. >>> >>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>> than >>>>> me >>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>> respect >>>>> to >>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators >>>>> in >>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>>> >>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>> arrangements, >>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>>>> >>> make >>> >>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>>> these >>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>> My >>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had >>>>> >>> in >>> >>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>>> since >>>>> I read his work. >>>>> >>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>> that's >>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>>> >>> disability. >>> >>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >>>>> were >>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>> disabled >>>>> in >>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >>>>> then >>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>>> >>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put >>>>> it >>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>> quotation >>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>> the >>>>> position I've outlined. >>>>> >>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>> problem >>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>>> person >>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>> physical >>>>> nuisance. >>>>> >>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>> eye >>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack >>>>> of >>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Marc >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>>> >>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>> students, >>>>> we >>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>>> >>> major >>> >>>>> life function, sight. >>>>> >>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>>> >>> blind >>> >>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>>> >>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>> attitude, >>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>>> >>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> >>>>> ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> >>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 18 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 >> From: "Wilson, Joanne" (by way of David Andrews >> ) >> Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" >> >> >> Free White Cane Message >> >> If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane >> Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach >> materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about >> getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if >> you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to >> say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, >> self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a >> paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White >> Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to >> jwilson at nfb.org. >> >> Thanks, >> Joanne Wilson >> Affiliate Action Executive Director >> 410-659-9314 extension 2335 >> jwilson at nfb.org >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: Free White Cane Message.doc >> Type: application/msword >> Size: 30208 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 19 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 >> From: Haben Girma >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305 at aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> >> Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >> generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >> case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, >> have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually >> taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in >> the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >> and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >> sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the >> tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing >> to help. >> >> Haben >> >> Serena wrote: >>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >>> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>>> acquaintances. My >>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>>> Adventure. I >>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>> nobody >>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>> blind or, >>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>> younger >>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>> him a >>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>>> I know >>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>> international, >>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>> not that. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>> option >>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>> study >>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>>> them, so to >>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>>> a legal >>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>> education >>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>>> will be a >>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>> services >>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>> running >>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>>> all my >>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>> studying >>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>>> concerns for >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>>> travel with >>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>>> because it >>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>> because of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>>> does not >>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>> explained to >>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>> situation and >>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>>> to help >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>>> I am. >>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>>> depend on >>>>>>> mom >>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>> school >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>>> from work >>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>> willing >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>>> get moor >>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>>> to her >>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>> support. >>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>>> deposit the >>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>> signing >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>>> learn how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>> excited to >>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>> projects >>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>> >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 20 >> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 >> From: Jedi >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541 at web2.serotek.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" >> >> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >> Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." >> we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a >> lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases >> that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would >> argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also >> argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the >> stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is >> something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote >> an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting >> article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people >> qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they >> will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are >> dead wrong. >> Original message: >> >>> Hi Mark, >> >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >> >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >> >>> Haben >> >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most >>>> >>>> of >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>> persons >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>> disability >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>> particular >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>> is in >>>> me. >> >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>> think >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>> are >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>> Canada's >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>>> say >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>> disability. >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>> only >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>> there >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>> this >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that >>>> >>>> the >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>> Far >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>> be >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>> special >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>>> it >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>> disability >>>> differently. >> >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>> disability, >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>> anyway >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>>> for >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>> think >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >> >>>> Best, >> >>>> Marc >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >> >> >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> >>>> Haben >> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >> >>>> this >> >>>>> topic. >> >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>> What I >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>> blindness >> >>>> is >> >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>> blindness >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>>> factors. >> >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>> seem >> >>>> to >> >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>> blindness. >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >> >>>> short, >> >>>>> society itself, were different. >> >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>> time >> >>>> and >> >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >> >>>> Canadians. >> >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>> challenges >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>> in a >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >> >>>> viewed >> >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>> to >> >>>> be >> >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >> >>>> training >> >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >> >>>> experiments >> >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>> blind? >> >>>> I >> >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >> >>>> we'll >> >>>>> never really know for sure. >> >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >> >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>>> not >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>> but >> >>>> you >> >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more >> >>>> than >> >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>> possess >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>>> the >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>> cases, >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>> result >> >>>> in >> >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>> Here's >>>>> hoping anyways. >> >>>>> Best, >> >>>>> Marc >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >> >> >>>>> Marc, >> >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>> physical >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>> about >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >> >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >> >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>> pickup >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>>> of >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>> literary >>>>> works in Braille. >> >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>> question? >> >> >> >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >> >>>> which, >> >>>>>> I >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >> >>>> some >> >>>>>> of you. >> >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>> codified >>>>>> in >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>> trait >>>>>> or >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could >>>>>> >>>>>> be >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>> meaningless >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>> contexts, >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>> imposed >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >> >>>> building. >> >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>> many >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>> than >>>>>> me >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>> respect >>>>>> to >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>> in >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>> not >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >> >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >> >>>> make >> >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>>>> these >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>>> My >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>> had >> >>>> in >> >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>>>> since >>>>>> I read his work. >> >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>> that's >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >> >>>> disability. >> >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>> law >>>>>> were >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>> disabled >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>> available, >>>>>> then >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put >>>>>> >>>>>> it >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>> quotation >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>>> the >>>>>> position I've outlined. >> >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>> problem >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> nuisance. >> >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>> eye >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>> the >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> >>>>>> Best, >> >>>>>> Marc >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >> >> >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>> students, >>>>>> we >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >> >>>> major >> >>>>>> life function, sight. >> >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >> >>>> blind >> >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >> >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>> my >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>> attitude, >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>>>> ca >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>>> ca >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> ca >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> REspectfully, >> Jedi >> >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> >> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >> ************************************** >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From fowlers at syix.com Sat Apr 25 23:45:49 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:45:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh yes, liability restrictions, a sinister bye-product of disability rights legislation and greedy lawyers. Couldn't you sign a paper relieving the school of liability? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of priscilla Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:14 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice hey all, I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on the trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what really annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and stuff. another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out the legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to approve it. but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, because of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with disabilities services. I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. what do you all think? Thank you very much. I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need deposits in as soon as possible. -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM To: Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) > 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) > 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) > 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) > 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) > 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) > 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) > 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) > 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) > 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. > Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) > 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) > 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) > 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) > 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) > 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) > 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) > 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > (Haben Girma) > 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) > 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) > 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Jim, > I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for > our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the > street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear being > hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps > you > don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying > you > comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. > You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough > risk > in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors > automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we > cannot > hear. > > we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise > on > the car to hear it. > I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot > be > independent if I am dead from a car crash. > > You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others > will > fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. > We > are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, that > silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Reed" > To: "MAB List" > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > > Hello, > I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars > might > pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, > there > is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign > oil, > and enviromental damage. > > Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support > or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap > in > our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it > may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the > impact > of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant > nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a > dependence > of forign oil. > > There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development > of > hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the > savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could > jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and > individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you > will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic > collapes. > Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. > > Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind > persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the > changing > world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era > of > silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? > > I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal > progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic > decline. > I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) > refuse to adapt. > > Well thats my two cents > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4033 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Jont, > I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to > detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane > heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will > drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes > wear > out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off > and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. > > Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. > Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still > a > valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jonte" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >> companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence >>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>> Detroit, >>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>> hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in >>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>> methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>> because >>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jim Reed > Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment > seminars > To: NABS mail list > Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > NABS board and officers, > > I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job > training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and > successful employment counters stereotypes. > > I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value > associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar that > could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For > example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know an > answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, and > I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all > students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If > they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will > ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of > older people, proffessionals, and strangers? > > Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills and > knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some of > us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have never > looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the > education/training needs to start at the most basic level. > > I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should host > its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. > > ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention > efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not > compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is > availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a > NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of > project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. > > I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do so. > Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading this > on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; > they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough > phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and I > have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and > to the needs of their voters... > > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > ? > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 > From: "priscilla" > Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad > with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of > the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help > me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are > willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will > get moor information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 > times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how > to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited > to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get > tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for > projects which I need help in. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 > From: Elizabeth > Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hello List, > > I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but I > noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from > Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an > active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind > college student who resides in the state of Michigan. > > I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within > our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person > for anything related to the upcoming national convention including > answering any questions you might have about what resources might be > available in our state. > > I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to > unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of > the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are > over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be of > any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, > please feel free to contact me off list. > > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry > http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mob ile2_042009 > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 > From: jonte > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane > that would detect a hybrid car. > I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not > throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been > developed that could save my life. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > Jont, > I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to > detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane > heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will > drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes > wear > out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off > and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. > > Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. > Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still > a > valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jonte" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >> companies to accommodate us. >> Jonte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Spangler >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >> >> Thanks, >> Robby >> >> Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>> dependence >>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>> Detroit, >>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>> hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>> in >>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>> methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>> because >>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> -- >> Robert Spangler >> The University of Toledo >> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 > From: Mary Fernandez > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the > trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two > students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do > it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go > alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of > them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely > on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. > This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to > hiring a reader or something along those lines. > So thinkabout it. > Mary > > On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >> of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >> and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >> me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >> mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >> to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >> was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >> because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >> because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >> mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >> to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >> to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >> used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >> but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >> support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >> they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >> up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail. com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 > From: anna parker > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people who > can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because i > do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough > crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i > strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be done > now > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett > > wrote: > >> Hi Jim, >> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for >> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the >> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >> being >> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >> you >> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >> you >> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >> risk >> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >> cannot >> hear. >> >> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >> on >> the car to hear it. >> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >> be >> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >> >> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this >> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >> To: "MAB List" >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, >> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support >> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap >> in >> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >> it >> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >> impact >> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >> importiant >> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >> dependence >> of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of >> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you >> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. >> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing >> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >> of >> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. >> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >> refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gma il.com >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 > From: anna parker > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > hey Elizabeth > my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if youd > like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming > sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me > Anna > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth wrote: > >> >> Hello List, >> >> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but >> I >> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from >> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an >> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >> college >> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >> >> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >> for >> anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering >> any >> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >> state. >> >> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of >> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are >> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >> of >> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >> please >> feel free to contact me off list. >> >> Elizabeth >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >> >> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mob ile2_042009 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gma il.com >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 > From: "Tai Blas" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career > seminar. Who wants to help? > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the > convention. > He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use > his > equipment. contact him at the national center. > Tai Blas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career > seminar. > Who wants to help? > > Hi again, > > Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this > thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career > seminar. (It's been a long week!) > > Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need > to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention > general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, > who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the > right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. > > Arielle > > On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Jim and all, >> >> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >> the year. >> >> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >> >> Arielle Silverman >> First Vice-President, NABS >> >> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>> career >>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>> vollenter >>>> to >>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>> tomarrow), >>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>> ball >>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>> >>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>> equipment? >>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide >>>> the >>>> equipment. >>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>> funda >>>> avaliable? >>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need >>>> to >>>> find out where. >>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >>>> the >>>> gear. >>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would >>>> be >>>> willing to allow us >>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>> recording/production as a project. >>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>> P.A. >>>> system that >>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>> >>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>> people >>>> willing to take >>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>> boards >>>> or what >>>> not. >>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>> >>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>>> plan >>>> accordingly. >>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >>>> along with the video. >>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned >>>> and >>>> upoaded. >>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>>> dated) permission from >>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials >>>> on >>>> the web. I know >>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont >>>> take >>>> further action until I >>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >>>> but >>>> verify." >>>> >>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co > m >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 > From: "Jason Mandarino" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option > posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study > abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to > make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal > adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education > credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a > blast. > > I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a > pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under > your > mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take > responsibility. > > Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability > services > in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running > out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my > additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They > can > not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. > > Just some ideas. > > Sincerely, > > Mandarino > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of priscilla > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad > with > me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of > the > fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help > me > but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > because > I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to > give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor > information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 > times > for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how > to > travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to > learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring > for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects > which I need help in. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a > student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes > us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're > not that. > Beth > > On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >> blast. >> >> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >> your >> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >> responsibility. >> >> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >> services >> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >> can >> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >> >> Just some ideas. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of priscilla >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >> of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >> and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >> me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >> mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >> to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >> was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >> because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >> because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >> mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >> to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >> to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >> used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >> but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >> support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >> they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >> up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 > From: "Serena" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that > students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, > regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My > senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I > asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody > wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind > or, > simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a younger > friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him a > free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I know > he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's > international, > so has different values than the average sighted American. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > >>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >> not that. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>> to >>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>> legal >>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>> blast. >>> >>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>> your >>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>> services >>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>> running >>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>> can >>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>> Just some ideas. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of priscilla >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>> with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>> to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>> and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>> work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 > From: Beth > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Question: how do international peopl have different values than the > average sighted American? This is weird. I know international > students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the > general sighted public is so self-centered these days. > Beth > > On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >> or, >> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >> younger >> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >> a >> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >> know >> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >> international, >> so has different values than the average sighted American. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>> not that. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>> option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>> education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>> a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>> of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>> help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>> can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>> moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>> how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>> to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 > From: "Serena" > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any > differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more > overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who went > with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone else > to > go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted classmates > would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or > acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > >> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>> My >>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>> I >>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>> nobody >>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>> or, >>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> younger >>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>> a >>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>> know >>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> international, >>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>> study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>> my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>> They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>> studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>> because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>> for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>> it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>> not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>> am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>> school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>> willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>> her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>> the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>> signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 > From: Domonique Lawless > Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: > <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5 at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hello Everyone, > > I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what > accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done > to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right > direction I would greatly appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Domonique Lawless > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 > From: Haben Girma > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > Hi Mark, > > I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" > are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read > it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" > or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full > participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these > terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would > take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" > means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone > with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and > think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would > probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than > the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. > Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a > negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term > "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons > before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the > term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a > "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred > impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm > where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, > can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons > with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the > disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess > disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" > because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. > So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would > seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with > disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms > can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and > I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > > Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid > thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be > nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all > kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's > especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > > Haben > > mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most >> of >> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >> persons >> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >> disability >> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a particular >> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem is >> in >> me. >> >> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >> think >> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >> are >> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> >> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of Canada's >> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >> say >> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >> disability. >> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >> only >> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, there >> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >> this >> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that >> the >> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >> Far >> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to be >> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >> special >> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >> it >> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >> disability >> differently. >> >> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >> disability, >> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >> anyway >> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >> for >> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't think >> it's the right way of looking at it. >> >> Best, >> >> Marc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> >> Haben >> >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >>> >> this >> >>> topic. >>> >>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. What >>> I >>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that blindness >>> >> is >> >>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>> blindness >>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>> factors. >>> >>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we seem >>> >> to >> >>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>> blindness. >>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>> >> short, >> >>> society itself, were different. >>> >>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my time >>> >> and >> >>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>> >> Canadians. >> >>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the challenges >>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living in >>> a >>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>> >> viewed >> >>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world to >>> >> be >> >>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>> >> training >> >>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>> >> experiments >> >>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>> blind? >>> >> I >> >>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>> >> we'll >> >>> never really know for sure. >>> >>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>> >>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>> not >>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, but >>> >> you >> >>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more >>> >> than >> >>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to possess >>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>> the >>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>> cases, >>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>> result >>> >> in >> >>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. Here's >>> hoping anyways. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> >>> >>> Marc, >>> >>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>> physical >>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument about >>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>> >>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>> >>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>> of >>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>> literary >>> works in Braille. >>> >>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> >> question? >> >>> >>> >>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>> >> which, >> >>>> I >>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>>> >> some >> >>>> of you. >>>> >>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>> codified >>>> in >>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>> Impairments, >>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>> >>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>> trait >>>> or >>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could >>>> be >>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>> meaningless >>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>> contexts, >>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>> imposed >>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>> >>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>> >> building. >> >>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, many >>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>> than >>>> me >>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>> respect >>>> to >>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators >>>> in >>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people in >>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would not >>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>> >>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>> arrangements, >>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>>> >> make >> >>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>> these >>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>> My >>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan had >>>> >> in >> >>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>> since >>>> I read his work. >>>> >>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>> that's >>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>> >> disability. >> >>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the law >>>> were >>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>> disabled >>>> in >>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are available, >>>> then >>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>> >>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put >>>> it >>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>> quotation >>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>> the >>>> position I've outlined. >>>> >>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>> problem >>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>> person >>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>> physical >>>> nuisance. >>>> >>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>> eye >>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack >>>> of >>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of the >>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>> >>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>> students, >>>> we >>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>> >> major >> >>>> life function, sight. >>>> >>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>> >> blind >> >>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>> >>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize my >>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>> attitude, >>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>> >>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>> ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 > From: "Wilson, Joanne" (by way of David Andrews > ) > Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > > Free White Cane Message > > If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane > Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach > materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about > getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if > you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to > say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, > self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a > paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White > Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to > jwilson at nfb.org. > > Thanks, > Joanne Wilson > Affiliate Action Executive Director > 410-659-9314 extension 2335 > jwilson at nfb.org > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: Free White Cane Message.doc > Type: application/msword > Size: 30208 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 > From: Haben Girma > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305 at aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing > to help. > > Haben > > Serena wrote: >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>> acquaintances. My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>> Adventure. I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>> blind or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>> him a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>> I know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>> them, so to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>> a legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>> will be a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>> under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>> all my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>> abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>> concerns for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>> travel with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>> because it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>> because of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>> does not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>> explained to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>> which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>> situation and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>> to help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>> I am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>> depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>> from work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>> get moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>> to her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>> trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>> deposit the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>> learn how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>> excited to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo n.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 > From: Jedi > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > question? > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541 at web2.serotek.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" > > Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or > intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." > Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." > we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a > lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases > that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or > stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would > argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a > disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward > when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also > argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the > stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is > something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote > an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting > article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people > qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they > will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are > dead wrong. > Original message: > >> Hi Mark, > >> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > >> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > >> Haben > >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in most >>> of >>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>> persons >>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>> disability >>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>> particular >>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>> is in >>> me. > >>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>> think >>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>> are >>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end up >>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. > >>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>> Canada's >>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>> say >>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>> disability. >>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>> only >>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>> there >>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>> this >>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was that >>> the >>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>> Far >>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>> be >>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>> special >>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>> it >>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>> disability >>> differently. > >>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>> disability, >>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>> anyway >>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>> for >>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>> think >>> it's the right way of looking at it. > >>> Best, > >>> Marc > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? > > >>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? > >>> Haben > >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel guilty >>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with > >>> this > >>>> topic. > >>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>> What I >>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>> blindness > >>> is > >>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>> blindness >>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>> factors. > >>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>> seem > >>> to > >>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>> blindness. >>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated if >>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in > >>> short, > >>>> society itself, were different. > >>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>> time > >>> and > >>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind > >>> Canadians. > >>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>> challenges >>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>> in a >>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world where >>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was > >>> viewed > >>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>> to > >>> be > >>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best > >>> training > >>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought > >>> experiments > >>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>> blind? > >>> I > >>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, > >>> we'll > >>>> never really know for sure. > >>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > >>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>> not >>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>> but > >>> you > >>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them more > >>> than > >>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>> possess >>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other skin >>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>> the >>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>> cases, >>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>> result > >>> in > >>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>> Here's >>>> hoping anyways. > >>>> Best, > >>>> Marc > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? > > >>>> Marc, > >>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>> physical >>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>> about >>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > >>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest with >>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. > >>>> Antonio Guimaraes > >>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>> pickup >>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>> of >>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>> literary >>>> works in Braille. > >>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>> question? > > > >>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with > >>> which, > >>>>> I >>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade > >>> some > >>>>> of you. > >>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>> codified >>>>> in >>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>> Impairments, >>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. > >>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>> trait >>>>> or >>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve could >>>>> be >>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>> meaningless >>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>> contexts, >>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>> imposed >>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. > >>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my > >>> building. > >>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>> many >>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>> than >>>>> me >>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>> respect >>>>> to >>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put elevators >>>>> in >>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door openers, >>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>> in >>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>> not >>>>> significantly impact on their lives. > >>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>> arrangements, >>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that > >>> make > >>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All of >>>>> these >>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>> My >>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>> had > >>> in > >>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a while >>>>> since >>>>> I read his work. > >>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>> that's >>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. They >>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of > >>> disability. > >>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>> law >>>>> were >>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>> disabled >>>>> in >>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>> available, >>>>> then >>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > >>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only put >>>>> it >>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>> quotation >>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>> the >>>>> position I've outlined. > >>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>> problem >>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a blind >>>>> person >>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>> physical >>>>> nuisance. > >>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>> eye >>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and lack >>>>> of >>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>> the >>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical nuisance >>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Marc > >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? > > >>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > >>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do certain >>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>> students, >>>>> we >>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a > >>> major > >>>>> life function, sight. > >>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for > >>> blind > >>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > >>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>> my >>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>> attitude, >>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. > >>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>>>> ca > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>>> ca > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> ca > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 > ************************************** > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From cassonw at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 23:51:15 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 16:51:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904251651h8dde2a1y7be5cc1a06a925c2@mail.gmail.com> Not allowing you to attend this trip only because of a disability i believe is discrimination. They offer a service and i believe if you pay for the service, they cannot refuse it to you. Someone correct me if this is wrong. Are they requireing you to have someone with you because you have a disability or because you receive services from DSS? What is the compliance office? If you put down the deposit and you cannot get someone to go, will they refuse to let you go? If so, will they refund your trip cost? Would you be comfortable going without a designated person to help you? If you are comforable with and they would refund, I would go ahead and go through the procedures required to go and work out the details afterwords. If you really want to do this then you will find ways to make it work, and remember the NFB is happy to help you in any way they can. Bill On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 4:13 PM, priscilla wrote: > hey all, > I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. > but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on the > trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what really > annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and > stuff. > another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out the > legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to approve > it. > but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have > someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, because > of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with > disabilities services. > I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. > what do you all think? > > Thank you very much. > I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need > deposits in as soon as possible. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM > To: > Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 > > Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >> 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >> 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) >> 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) >> 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) >> 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) >> 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) >> 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) >> 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) >> 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. >> Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) >> 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) >> 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >> 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >> 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >> 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >> 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) >> 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? >> (Haben Girma) >> 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) >> 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) >> 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Hi Jim, >> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for >> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the >> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear being >> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >> you >> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >> you >> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >> risk >> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >> cannot >> hear. >> >> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >> on >> the car to hear it. >> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >> be >> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >> >> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >> will >> fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. >> We >> are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, that >> silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >> To: "MAB List" >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might >> pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, >> there >> is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign >> oil, >> and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the support >> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap >> in >> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, it >> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >> impact >> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more importiant >> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >> dependence >> of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of >> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you >> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. >> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing >> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >> of >> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. >> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >> refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4033 (20090424) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Jont, >> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will >> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >> wear >> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off >> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >> >> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still >> a >> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>> companies to accommodate us. >>> Jonte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Spangler >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> Jim Reed wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>> dependence >>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>> >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>> >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>> Detroit, >>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>> hindering it. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>> in >>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>> methodologies? >>>> >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal >>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>> because >>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>> >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Jim Reed >> Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment >> seminars >> To: NABS mail list >> Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> NABS board and officers, >> >> I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job >> training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and >> successful employment counters stereotypes. >> >> I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value >> associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar that >> could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For >> example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know an >> answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, and I >> wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all >> students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If >> they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will >> ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of >> older people, proffessionals, and strangers? >> >> Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills and >> knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some of us >> (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have never >> looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the >> education/training needs to start at the most basic level. >> >> I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should host >> its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. >> >> ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention >> efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not >> compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is >> availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a NABS >> convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of project >> the Imagination Fund would jump all over. >> >> I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do so. >> Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading this on >> the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; they >> are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough phone >> calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and I have >> faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and to the >> needs of their voters... >> >> Thanks, >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> ? >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 >> From: "priscilla" >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >> willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >> get moor information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects >> which I need help in. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 >> From: Elizabeth >> Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Hello List, >> >> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but I >> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from >> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an >> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind college >> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >> >> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person for >> anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering any >> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >> state. >> >> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of >> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are >> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be of >> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, please >> feel free to contact me off list. >> >> Elizabeth >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >> >> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 >> From: jonte >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane >> that would detect a hybrid car. >> I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not >> throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been >> developed that could save my life. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> Jont, >> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will >> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >> wear >> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off >> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >> >> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still >> a >> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >> >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> >> >> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I >>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>> companies to accommodate us. >>> Jonte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Robert Spangler >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that >>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robby >>> >>> Jim Reed wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>> dependence >>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>> >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>> >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>> Detroit, >>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>> hindering it. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>> in >>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>> methodologies? >>>> >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal >>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>> because >>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>> >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> Robert Spangler >>> The University of Toledo >>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 >> From: Mary Fernandez >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the >> trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two >> students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do >> it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go >> alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of >> them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely >> on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. >> This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to >> hiring a reader or something along those lines. >> So thinkabout it. >> Mary >> >> On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> President Barack Obama >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 >> From: anna parker >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people who >> can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because i >> do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough >> crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i >> strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be done >> now >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett < >> bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> Hi Jim, >>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars for >>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross the >>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>> being >>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>> you >>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >>> you >>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>> risk >>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>> cannot >>> hear. >>> >>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >>> on >>> the car to hear it. >>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >>> be >>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>> >>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >>> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this >>> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >>> To: "MAB List" >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>> hand, >>> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >>> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support >>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great leap >>> in >>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>> it >>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>> impact >>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>> importiant >>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>> dependence >>> of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of >>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, you >>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. >>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing >>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >>> of >>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. >>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>> refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 >> From: anna parker >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> hey Elizabeth >> my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if youd >> like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming >> sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me >> Anna >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth wrote: >> >> >>> Hello List, >>> >>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but >>> I >>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list from >>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not an >>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>> college >>> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>> >>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >>> for >>> anything related to the upcoming national convention including answering >>> any >>> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >>> state. >>> >>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning of >>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes are >>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>> of >>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>> please >>> feel free to contact me off list. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>> >>> >>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 >> From: "Tai Blas" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >> seminar. Who wants to help? >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the >> convention. >> He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use >> his >> equipment. contact him at the national center. >> Tai Blas >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >> seminar. >> Who wants to help? >> >> Hi again, >> >> Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this >> thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career >> seminar. (It's been a long week!) >> >> Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need >> to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention >> general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, >> who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the >> right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> >>> Hi Jim and all, >>> >>> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >>> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >>> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >>> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >>> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >>> the year. >>> >>> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >>> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >>> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >>> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >>> >>> Arielle Silverman >>> First Vice-President, NABS >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>> >>>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound board. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello all, >>>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>>> career >>>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>>> vollenter >>>>> to >>>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>>> tomarrow), >>>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>>> ball >>>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in digest >>>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>>> >>>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>>> equipment? >>>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide the >>>>> equipment. >>>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>>> funda >>>>> avaliable? >>>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We need >>>>> to >>>>> find out where. >>>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and drop-off >>>>> the >>>>> gear. >>>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would be >>>>> willing to allow us >>>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>>> recording/production as a project. >>>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or the >>>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>>> P.A. >>>>> system that >>>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>>> >>>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>>> people >>>>> willing to take >>>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording duties? >>>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>>> boards >>>>> or what >>>>> not. >>>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>>>> plan >>>>> accordingly. >>>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V material >>>>> along with the video. >>>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned and >>>>> upoaded. >>>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>>>> dated) permission from >>>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and materials >>>>> on >>>>> the web. I know >>>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont take >>>>> further action until I >>>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, "trust, >>>>> but >>>>> verify." >>>>> >>>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co >> m >> >>> >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 >> From: "Jason Mandarino" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Message-ID: >> >> > gmail.com> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >> blast. >> >> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >> your >> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >> responsibility. >> >> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >> services >> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >> can >> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >> >> Just some ideas. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Mandarino >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of priscilla >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> Dear all listers, >> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of >> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >> with >> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and >> Brussels. >> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me >> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >> never happened. >> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned >> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to >> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >> the >> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was >> pretty sad. >> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because >> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >> me >> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because >> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom >> as a last resort. >> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to >> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >> that are a week's worth or more. >> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> because >> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing to >> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >> information because I would like to go too." >> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >> times >> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used >> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >> being with me all the time. >> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but >> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. >> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they >> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up >> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >> >> Thank you very much >> >> Good day, >> >> Priscilla >> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >> to >> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get tutoring >> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for projects >> which I need help in. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 >> From: Beth >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >> not that. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> >>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so to >>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a legal >>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>> blast. >>> >>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>> your >>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>> services >>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is running >>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>> can >>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>> Just some ideas. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of priscilla >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 >> From: "Serena" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >> or, >> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a younger >> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him a >> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I know >> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >> international, >> so has different values than the average sighted American. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>> not that. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 >> From: Beth >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Message-ID: >> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >> Beth >> >> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >> >>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but nobody >>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>> or, >>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> younger >>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>> a >>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>> know >>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> international, >>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 15 >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 >> From: "Serena" >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any >> differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who went >> with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone else >> to >> go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted classmates >> would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or >> acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>>> or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>>> a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>> know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>>> >>>>> ... > > [Message clipped] From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 00:14:20 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:14:20 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange program where you take classes at European universities as an international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being part of a school group. I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than that I was on my own. I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned about. The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, you can get the information you need from lectures by asking questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers do. However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, www.nabslink.org for information about the training that’s available to blind students and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll be able to do effectively and on your own. Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad questions. Arielle Silverman On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing > to help. > > Haben > > Serena wrote: >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>> acquaintances. My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>> Adventure. I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>> blind or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>> him a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>> I know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>> them, so to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>> a legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>> will be a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>> under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>> all my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>> abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>> concerns for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>> travel with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>> because it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>> because of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>> does not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>> explained to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>> which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>> situation and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>> to help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>> I am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>> depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>> from work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>> get moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>> to her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>> trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>> deposit the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>> learn how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>> excited to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From blindhistory at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 00:36:29 2009 From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:36:29 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: Arielle I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I totally agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a sighted person right next to you all of the time. On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hello all, > > Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like > how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored > group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange > program where you take classes at European universities as an > international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's > the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being > part of a school group. > > I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months > during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of > Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and > also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. > In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only > had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I > got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog > school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the > nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course > materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than > that I was on my own. > > I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind > person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time > were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind > students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including > students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. > (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will > I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, > now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the > experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more > independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my > entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t > have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had > a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced > the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country > or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned > about. > > The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by > itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a > new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without > your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have > a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the > NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, > you can get the information you need from lectures by asking > questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to > read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you > can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling > more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers > do. > > However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the > confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. > Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, > confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on > sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want > to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your > sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the > challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some > time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if > you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to > contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller > scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have > the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out > of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. > > Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, > www.nabslink.org > for information about the training that’s available to blind students > and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll > be able to do effectively and on your own. > > Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad questions. > > Arielle Silverman > > > On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: > > > > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a > > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the > > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, > > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually > > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in > > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced > > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they > > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the > > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing > > to help. > > > > Haben > > > > Serena wrote: > >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me > >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more > >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who > >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found > >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my > >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz > >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. > >> > >> Serena > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > >> > >> > >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the > >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international > >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the > >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. > >>> Beth > >>> > >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: > >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure > that > >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, > >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your > >>>> acquaintances. My > >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great > >>>> Adventure. I > >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but > >>>> nobody > >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being > >>>> blind or, > >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a > >>>> younger > >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving > >>>> him a > >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. > >>>> I know > >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's > >>>> international, > >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. > >>>> > >>>> Serena > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Beth" > >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>> > >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a > >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes > >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're > >>>>> not that. > >>>>> Beth > >>>>> > >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: > >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the > >>>>>> option > >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My > >>>>>> study > >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to > >>>>>> them, so to > >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of > >>>>>> a legal > >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the > >>>>>> education > >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had > a > >>>>>> blast. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this > >>>>>> will be a > >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years > >>>>>> under > >>>>>> your > >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take > >>>>>> responsibility. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability > >>>>>> services > >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is > >>>>>> running > >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover > >>>>>> all my > >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. > >>>>>> They > >>>>>> can > >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Just some ideas. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sincerely, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Mandarino > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] > On > >>>>>> Behalf > >>>>>> Of priscilla > >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM > >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dear all listers, > >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to > >>>>>> studying > >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out > >>>>>> because > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. > >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go > >>>>>> abroad > >>>>>> with > >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, > >>>>>> Belgium, > >>>>>> and > >>>>>> Brussels. > >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had > >>>>>> concerns for > >>>>>> me > >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually > >>>>>> travel with > >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip > >>>>>> because it > >>>>>> never happened. > >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I > >>>>>> mentioned > >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I > >>>>>> need > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times > >>>>>> because of > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it > >>>>>> does not > >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school > >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I > >>>>>> explained to > >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, > she > >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships > >>>>>> which > >>>>>> was > >>>>>> pretty sad. > >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my > >>>>>> situation and > >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad > >>>>>> because > >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid > >>>>>> to help > >>>>>> me > >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than > >>>>>> I am. > >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go > >>>>>> because > >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help > >>>>>> can't > >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to > >>>>>> depend on > >>>>>> mom > >>>>>> as a last resort. > >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another > >>>>>> school > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences > >>>>>> from work > >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. > >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > >>>>>> because > >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are > >>>>>> willing > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will > >>>>>> get moor > >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." > >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god > 1000 > >>>>>> times > >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to > get > >>>>>> used > >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed > >>>>>> to her > >>>>>> being with me all the time. > >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the > >>>>>> trip, > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for > >>>>>> support. > >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to > >>>>>> deposit the > >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday > unless > >>>>>> they > >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are > >>>>>> signing > >>>>>> up > >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving > other > >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate > >>>>>> it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you very much > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Good day, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Priscilla > >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to > >>>>>> learn how > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am > >>>>>> excited to > >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get > >>>>>> tutoring > >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for > >>>>>> projects > >>>>>> which I need help in. > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> mail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com > -- Lora From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 01:52:06 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:52:06 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Lora and all, Lora, I think you're right. What I meant was postponing the Europe trip until next year in order to go to a center and get strong blindness skills in the meantime. I feel it's much better to wait and be able to do the trip independently rather than going now and not being able to participate in the same way as the sighted students. As for "liability", I don't know the specific legalities, but denying a student access to study abroad on account of blindness is, at best, questionable under the ADA. They might argue that they're allowing you to go on the trip as long as you use what they deem to be a reasonable accommodation (the companion/guide), but remember also that under the ADA you have the right to refuse a specific accommodation. This is a kind of situation when getting a local or state NFB officer involved might be very helpful. Arielle On 4/26/09, Lora wrote: > Arielle > I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she > said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I totally > agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a > sighted person right next to you all of the time. > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like >> how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored >> group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange >> program where you take classes at European universities as an >> international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's >> the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being >> part of a school group. >> >> I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months >> during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of >> Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and >> also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. >> In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only >> had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I >> got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog >> school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the >> nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course >> materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than >> that I was on my own. >> >> I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind >> person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time >> were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind >> students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including >> students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. >> (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will >> I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, >> now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the >> experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more >> independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my >> entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t >> have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had >> a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced >> the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country >> or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned >> about. >> >> The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by >> itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a >> new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without >> your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have >> a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the >> NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, >> you can get the information you need from lectures by asking >> questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to >> read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you >> can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling >> more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers >> do. >> >> However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the >> confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. >> Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, >> confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on >> sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want >> to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your >> sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the >> challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some >> time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if >> you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to >> contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller >> scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have >> the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out >> of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. >> >> Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, >> www.nabslink.org >> for information about the training that’s available to blind students >> and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll >> be able to do effectively and on your own. >> >> Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad >> questions. >> >> Arielle Silverman >> >> >> On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: >> > >> > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >> > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >> > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, >> > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually >> > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in >> > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >> > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >> > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the >> > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing >> > to help. >> > >> > Haben >> > >> > Serena wrote: >> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >> >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >> >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >> >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >> >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >> >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >> >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >> >> >> >> Serena >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> >> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >> >> >> >> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >> >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >> >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >> >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >> >>> Beth >> >>> >> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >> that >> >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >> >>>> however, >> >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >> >>>> acquaintances. My >> >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >> >>>> Adventure. I >> >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >> >>>> nobody >> >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >> >>>> blind or, >> >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >> >>>> younger >> >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >> >>>> him a >> >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >> >>>> I know >> >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >> >>>> international, >> >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >> >>>> >> >>>> Serena >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>> From: "Beth" >> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>>> >> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >> >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >> >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >> >>>>> not that. >> >>>>> Beth >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >> >>>>>> option >> >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >> >>>>>> study >> >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >> >>>>>> them, so to >> >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >> >>>>>> a legal >> >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >> >>>>>> education >> >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >> a >> >>>>>> blast. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >> >>>>>> will be a >> >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >> >>>>>> under >> >>>>>> your >> >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >> >>>>>> responsibility. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >> >>>>>> services >> >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >> >>>>>> running >> >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >> >>>>>> all my >> >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >> >>>>>> They >> >>>>>> can >> >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Sincerely, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Mandarino >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >> On >> >>>>>> Behalf >> >>>>>> Of priscilla >> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >> >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >> >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >> >>>>>> studying >> >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >> >>>>>> because >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >> >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >> >>>>>> abroad >> >>>>>> with >> >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >> >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >> >>>>>> Belgium, >> >>>>>> and >> >>>>>> Brussels. >> >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >> >>>>>> concerns for >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >> >>>>>> travel with >> >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >> >>>>>> because it >> >>>>>> never happened. >> >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >> >>>>>> mentioned >> >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >> >>>>>> need >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >> >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >> >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >> >>>>>> because of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >> >>>>>> social >> >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >> >>>>>> does not >> >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >> >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >> >>>>>> explained to >> >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >> she >> >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >> >>>>>> which >> >>>>>> was >> >>>>>> pretty sad. >> >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >> >>>>>> situation and >> >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >> >>>>>> because >> >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >> >>>>>> to help >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >> >>>>>> I am. >> >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >> >>>>>> because >> >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >> >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >> >>>>>> can't >> >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >> >>>>>> depend on >> >>>>>> mom >> >>>>>> as a last resort. >> >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >> >>>>>> school >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >> >>>>>> from work >> >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >> >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >> >>>>>> because >> >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >> >>>>>> willing >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >> >>>>>> get moor >> >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >> >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >> 1000 >> >>>>>> times >> >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >> >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >> get >> >>>>>> used >> >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >> >>>>>> to her >> >>>>>> being with me all the time. >> >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >> >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >> >>>>>> trip, >> >>>>>> but >> >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >> >>>>>> support. >> >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >> >>>>>> deposit the >> >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >> unless >> >>>>>> they >> >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >> >>>>>> signing >> >>>>>> up >> >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >> other >> >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >> >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >> >>>>>> it. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Thank you very much >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Good day, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Priscilla >> >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >> >>>>>> learn how >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >> >>>>>> excited to >> >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >> >>>>>> tutoring >> >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >> >>>>>> projects >> >>>>>> which I need help in. >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> mail.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> nabs-l mailing list >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >> nabs-l: >> >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >> > > > > -- > Lora > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 01:59:57 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:59:57 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: One more thing: If you're going on a relatively short group trip abroad, where everyone in the group is going to the same places, staying in the same hotels, etc. then it's not a problem to just stick with members of the group, even if they're not close friends. I went on a three-week trip to eastern Europe with some students from my scholarship class whom I knew vaguely but not real well. Since I didn't speak the language and wasn't a very confident traveler at the time I walked around with other students in the group (or we'd break up into small groups). I went with different people at different times although after a while I did establish a regular group of sorts that I spent most of my time with. Even though these people weren't close friends it wasn't like I was a burden to them since they were just going places they would go anyway and I was just following them. And it was a great way to make friends! So if you want to have a safer experience, agreeing to walk around with at least one other person (even if it's not always the same person) is a compromise. Again, there's no reason to bring someone along just for that purpose. Arielle On 4/26/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi Lora and all, > > Lora, I think you're right. What I meant was postponing the Europe > trip until next year in order to go to a center and get strong > blindness skills in the meantime. I feel it's much better to wait and > be able to do the trip independently rather than going now and not > being able to participate in the same way as the sighted students. > > As for "liability", I don't know the specific legalities, but denying > a student access to study abroad on account of blindness is, at best, > questionable under the ADA. They might argue that they're allowing you > to go on the trip as long as you use what they deem to be a reasonable > accommodation (the companion/guide), but remember also that under the > ADA you have the right to refuse a specific accommodation. > > This is a kind of situation when getting a local or state NFB officer > involved might be very helpful. > > Arielle > > On 4/26/09, Lora wrote: >> Arielle >> I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she >> said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I >> totally >> agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a >> sighted person right next to you all of the time. >> >> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman >> wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like >>> how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored >>> group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange >>> program where you take classes at European universities as an >>> international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's >>> the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being >>> part of a school group. >>> >>> I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months >>> during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of >>> Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and >>> also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. >>> In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only >>> had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I >>> got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog >>> school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the >>> nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course >>> materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than >>> that I was on my own. >>> >>> I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind >>> person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time >>> were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind >>> students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including >>> students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. >>> (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will >>> I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, >>> now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the >>> experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more >>> independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my >>> entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t >>> have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had >>> a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced >>> the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country >>> or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned >>> about. >>> >>> The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by >>> itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a >>> new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without >>> your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have >>> a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the >>> NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, >>> you can get the information you need from lectures by asking >>> questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to >>> read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you >>> can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling >>> more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers >>> do. >>> >>> However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the >>> confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. >>> Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, >>> confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on >>> sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want >>> to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your >>> sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the >>> challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some >>> time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if >>> you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to >>> contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller >>> scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have >>> the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out >>> of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. >>> >>> Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, >>> www.nabslink.org >>> for information about the training that’s available to blind students >>> and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll >>> be able to do effectively and on your own. >>> >>> Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad >>> questions. >>> >>> Arielle Silverman >>> >>> >>> On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: >>> > >>> > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>> > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>> > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third >>> > World, >>> > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are >>> > usually >>> > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes >>> > in >>> > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >>> > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >>> > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just >>> > the >>> > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more >>> > willing >>> > to help. >>> > >>> > Haben >>> > >>> > Serena wrote: >>> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>> >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>> >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>> >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>> >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that >>> >> my >>> >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>> >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the >>> >> case. >>> >> >>> >> Serena >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >> >>> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but >>> >>> the >>> >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> >>> Beth >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>> that >>> >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>> >>>> however, >>> >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>> >>>> acquaintances. My >>> >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>> >>>> Adventure. I >>> >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>> >>>> nobody >>> >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>> >>>> blind or, >>> >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> >>>> younger >>> >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, >>> >>>> giving >>> >>>> him a >>> >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>> >>>> I know >>> >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> >>>> international, >>> >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Serena >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>>> From: "Beth" >>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it >>> >>>>> makes >>> >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. >>> >>>>> We're >>> >>>>> not that. >>> >>>>> Beth >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>> >>>>>> option >>> >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>> >>>>>> study >>> >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>> >>>>>> them, so to >>> >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>> >>>>>> a legal >>> >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>> >>>>>> education >>> >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we >>> >>>>>> had >>> a >>> >>>>>> blast. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>> >>>>>> will be a >>> >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>> >>>>>> under >>> >>>>>> your >>> >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> >>>>>> responsibility. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from >>> >>>>>> disability >>> >>>>>> services >>> >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>> >>>>>> running >>> >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>> >>>>>> all my >>> >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me >>> >>>>>> scholarships. >>> >>>>>> They >>> >>>>>> can >>> >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>> On >>> >>>>>> Behalf >>> >>>>>> Of priscilla >>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>> >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>> >>>>>> studying >>> >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>> >>>>>> because >>> >>>>>> of >>> >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>> >>>>>> abroad >>> >>>>>> with >>> >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>> >>>>>> Belgium, >>> >>>>>> and >>> >>>>>> Brussels. >>> >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>> >>>>>> concerns for >>> >>>>>> me >>> >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>> >>>>>> travel with >>> >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>> >>>>>> because it >>> >>>>>> never happened. >>> >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> >>>>>> mentioned >>> >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also >>> >>>>>> I >>> >>>>>> need >>> >>>>>> to >>> >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>> >>>>>> because of >>> >>>>>> the >>> >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>> >>>>>> social >>> >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>> >>>>>> does not >>> >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>> >>>>>> explained to >>> >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>> she >>> >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>> >>>>>> which >>> >>>>>> was >>> >>>>>> pretty sad. >>> >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>> >>>>>> situation and >>> >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study >>> >>>>>> abroad >>> >>>>>> because >>> >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>> >>>>>> to help >>> >>>>>> me >>> >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>> >>>>>> I am. >>> >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't >>> >>>>>> go >>> >>>>>> because >>> >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to >>> >>>>>> help >>> >>>>>> can't >>> >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>> >>>>>> depend on >>> >>>>>> mom >>> >>>>>> as a last resort. >>> >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>> >>>>>> school >>> >>>>>> to >>> >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>> >>>>>> from work >>> >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to >>> >>>>>> go >>> >>>>>> because >>> >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>> >>>>>> willing >>> >>>>>> to >>> >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>> >>>>>> get moor >>> >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>> >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>> 1000 >>> >>>>>> times >>> >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>> get >>> >>>>>> used >>> >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>> >>>>>> to her >>> >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>> >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel >>> >>>>>> too >>> >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>> >>>>>> trip, >>> >>>>>> but >>> >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> >>>>>> support. >>> >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>> >>>>>> deposit the >>> >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>> unless >>> >>>>>> they >>> >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>> >>>>>> signing >>> >>>>>> up >>> >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>> other >>> >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really >>> >>>>>> appreciate >>> >>>>>> it. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Good day, >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>> >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>> >>>>>> learn how >>> >>>>>> to >>> >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>> >>>>>> excited to >>> >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> >>>>>> tutoring >>> >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> >>>>>> projects >>> >>>>>> which I need help in. >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> mail.com >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for >>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>>> for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>>> for >>> >>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> >>> for >>> >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >> nabs-l: >>> >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > nabs-l mailing list >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> > nabs-l: >>> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lora >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > From trillian551 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 03:21:22 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:21:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi all. Priscilla. If you don't feel completely confortable with traveling alone, maybe perhaps you should consider postponing your trip. If it is a program through the college, and they absolutely refuse to let you travel alone, CEA, is an agency that has programs abroad for college students all over the world. You will still get credits, but it will not be a program through your college. Thus, allowing you to make the decision of how you want to travel. This time will also allow you to set certain goals, so that by the time you travel to europe you are more confident, like Arielle said, and have the normal nerves we all have when traveling abroad, but have earned the knowledge you can surpass this challenge as well. Sometimes, making decisions about these situations, and being realistic about our capabilities and skills is difficult. If I did not feel prepare to go to France, and knew that perhaps, I just had the most horrendous mobility skills, and could not travel by myself, I would not go this summer. Instead, I would wait until a time, when I knew that I had all the necessary skills to be as independent as possible. So that when people told me, you can't go because of X reason, I could say yes I can, and truly believe it. But no matter how prepare you are, you will be nervous. What I'm trying to get to, is perhaps to step back in these last few days and consider all your options. 1. Hire someone who is going on the trip. 2. Ask about signing a waver to be able to be freed of the compliance rules. And going by yourself. 3. Taking a later trip to europe, and looking at CEA or another agency, that is involved with study abroad. You can sometimes even study abroad with other colleges, just do your research, and you will find something. In the meantime, do not let not going now stop you, instead, work hard to improve yourself, so that you are as ready as you'll ever be when studying abroad. Mary On 4/25/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: > One more thing: > > If you're going on a relatively short group trip abroad, where > everyone in the group is going to the same places, staying in the same > hotels, etc. then it's not a problem to just stick with members of the > group, even if they're not close friends. > > I went on a three-week trip to eastern Europe with some students from > my scholarship class whom I knew vaguely but not real well. Since I > didn't speak the language and wasn't a very confident traveler at the > time I walked around with other students in the group (or we'd break > up into small groups). I went with different people at different times > although after a while I did establish a regular group of sorts that I > spent most of my time with. Even though these people weren't close > friends it wasn't like I was a burden to them since they were just > going places they would go anyway and I was just following them. And > it was a great way to make friends! > > So if you want to have a safer experience, agreeing to walk around > with at least one other person (even if it's not always the same > person) is a compromise. Again, there's no reason to bring someone > along just for that purpose. > > Arielle > > On 4/26/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Lora and all, >> >> Lora, I think you're right. What I meant was postponing the Europe >> trip until next year in order to go to a center and get strong >> blindness skills in the meantime. I feel it's much better to wait and >> be able to do the trip independently rather than going now and not >> being able to participate in the same way as the sighted students. >> >> As for "liability", I don't know the specific legalities, but denying >> a student access to study abroad on account of blindness is, at best, >> questionable under the ADA. They might argue that they're allowing you >> to go on the trip as long as you use what they deem to be a reasonable >> accommodation (the companion/guide), but remember also that under the >> ADA you have the right to refuse a specific accommodation. >> >> This is a kind of situation when getting a local or state NFB officer >> involved might be very helpful. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/26/09, Lora wrote: >>> Arielle >>> I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she >>> said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I >>> totally >>> agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a >>> sighted person right next to you all of the time. >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like >>>> how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored >>>> group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange >>>> program where you take classes at European universities as an >>>> international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's >>>> the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being >>>> part of a school group. >>>> >>>> I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months >>>> during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of >>>> Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and >>>> also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. >>>> In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only >>>> had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I >>>> got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog >>>> school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the >>>> nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course >>>> materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than >>>> that I was on my own. >>>> >>>> I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind >>>> person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time >>>> were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind >>>> students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including >>>> students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. >>>> (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will >>>> I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, >>>> now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the >>>> experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more >>>> independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my >>>> entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t >>>> have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had >>>> a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced >>>> the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country >>>> or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned >>>> about. >>>> >>>> The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by >>>> itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a >>>> new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without >>>> your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have >>>> a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the >>>> NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, >>>> you can get the information you need from lectures by asking >>>> questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to >>>> read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you >>>> can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling >>>> more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers >>>> do. >>>> >>>> However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the >>>> confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. >>>> Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, >>>> confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on >>>> sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want >>>> to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your >>>> sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the >>>> challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some >>>> time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if >>>> you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to >>>> contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller >>>> scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have >>>> the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out >>>> of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. >>>> >>>> Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> for information about the training that’s available to blind students >>>> and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll >>>> be able to do effectively and on your own. >>>> >>>> Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad >>>> questions. >>>> >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>>> > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>>> > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third >>>> > World, >>>> > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are >>>> > usually >>>> > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes >>>> > in >>>> > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >>>> > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >>>> > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just >>>> > the >>>> > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more >>>> > willing >>>> > to help. >>>> > >>>> > Haben >>>> > >>>> > Serena wrote: >>>> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>>> >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>> >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>>> >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>>> >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that >>>> >> my >>>> >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>>> >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the >>>> >> case. >>>> >> >>>> >> Serena >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>> >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>> >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but >>>> >>> the >>>> >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>> >>> Beth >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>> that >>>> >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>> >>>> however, >>>> >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>> >>>> acquaintances. My >>>> >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>> >>>> Adventure. I >>>> >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> >>>> nobody >>>> >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>> >>>> blind or, >>>> >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> >>>> younger >>>> >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, >>>> >>>> giving >>>> >>>> him a >>>> >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>> >>>> I know >>>> >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> >>>> international, >>>> >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it >>>> >>>>> makes >>>> >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. >>>> >>>>> We're >>>> >>>>> not that. >>>> >>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>> >>>>>> option >>>> >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>> >>>>>> study >>>> >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>> >>>>>> them, so to >>>> >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>> >>>>>> a legal >>>> >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>> >>>>>> education >>>> >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we >>>> >>>>>> had >>>> a >>>> >>>>>> blast. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>> >>>>>> will be a >>>> >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>> >>>>>> under >>>> >>>>>> your >>>> >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> >>>>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from >>>> >>>>>> disability >>>> >>>>>> services >>>> >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> >>>>>> running >>>> >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>> >>>>>> all my >>>> >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me >>>> >>>>>> scholarships. >>>> >>>>>> They >>>> >>>>>> can >>>> >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >>>>>> Behalf >>>> >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>> >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>> >>>>>> studying >>>> >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>> >>>>>> abroad >>>> >>>>>> with >>>> >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>> >>>>>> Belgium, >>>> >>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>> Brussels. >>>> >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>> >>>>>> concerns for >>>> >>>>>> me >>>> >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>> >>>>>> travel with >>>> >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>> >>>>>> because it >>>> >>>>>> never happened. >>>> >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> >>>>>> mentioned >>>> >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also >>>> >>>>>> I >>>> >>>>>> need >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>> >>>>>> because of >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>> >>>>>> social >>>> >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>> >>>>>> does not >>>> >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>> >>>>>> explained to >>>> >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>> she >>>> >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>> >>>>>> which >>>> >>>>>> was >>>> >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>> >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>> >>>>>> situation and >>>> >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study >>>> >>>>>> abroad >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>> >>>>>> to help >>>> >>>>>> me >>>> >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>> >>>>>> I am. >>>> >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't >>>> >>>>>> go >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to >>>> >>>>>> help >>>> >>>>>> can't >>>> >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>> >>>>>> depend on >>>> >>>>>> mom >>>> >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>> >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>> >>>>>> school >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>> >>>>>> from work >>>> >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to >>>> >>>>>> go >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>> >>>>>> willing >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>> >>>>>> get moor >>>> >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>> 1000 >>>> >>>>>> times >>>> >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>> get >>>> >>>>>> used >>>> >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>> >>>>>> to her >>>> >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>> >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel >>>> >>>>>> too >>>> >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>> >>>>>> trip, >>>> >>>>>> but >>>> >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> >>>>>> support. >>>> >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>> >>>>>> deposit the >>>> >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>> unless >>>> >>>>>> they >>>> >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>> >>>>>> signing >>>> >>>>>> up >>>> >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>> other >>>> >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really >>>> >>>>>> appreciate >>>> >>>>>> it. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>> >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>> >>>>>> learn how >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>> >>>>>> excited to >>>> >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> >>>>>> tutoring >>>> >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> >>>>>> projects >>>> >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>>> for >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lora >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 04:20:47 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 21:20:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Romanticisation of Blindness In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20904231545i7eb3d09du84e9bc4f94c43aef@mail.gmail.com> References: <70277.44933.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <7949e5e20904231545i7eb3d09du84e9bc4f94c43aef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090426042047.GB24324@yumi.bluecherry.net> For the record, Daredevil is a comic book character created in 1964 by Stan Lee. He was originally drawn by Bill Everett, and Jack Kirby was also in on his creation. Frank Miller brought Daredevil into the Marvel universe mainstream, according to many. Comic book nerds will recognize all of these names as staples of the industry. A young Matt Murdock pushed a blind man out of the path of a speeding truck. In a twist of comic book irony at its unpredictable best, radioactive material fell off the back of this truck, and it caused Matt's own blindness. Of course, you're shocked it was radioactive material, right? And of course, you know what that means--superpower time! He later discovers his other senses are superpowered. Matt's dad, a boxer, is killed by gangsters when he refuses to throw a fight. Eventually (like 1979 or 1980 or so, when Frank Miller took over the writing), these gangsters worked for the Kingpin. Matt, who realizes that he has these superpowers, decides he wants revenge. So he dons a red and devil costume and decides to go beat up bad guys for fun and revenge. He has nothing to fear because he has nothing left. Blindness has very little to do with Daredevil, and in fact Matt Murdock does a better job at being a good blind person than the average portrayal of a blind person by sighted people. He folds his money, he listens to what's going on around him, and is a successful lawyer who uses his brain and nonvisual techniques. He later gets hooked up with Black Widow, a defector from the USSR who runs around shooting everything and wears a skin-tight black outfit that is usually inked to look like either shiny leather or latex. The barrels of her weapons aren't the only thing the average male teenager is expected to find smoking. More recently the character's gone through craziness, because he's a comic book character, and insanity, character reboots, retroactive continuity, and other such things are commonplace. Also note that I'm describing the Daredevil of Earth 616, one universe. Daredevil was always one of my favorites--along with Batman and the X-Men. I don't look at him as any kind of model of a blind person really because blind person is just his "secret identity". Remember, this is stuff like Superman becoming Clark Kent by putting on a pair of glasses. You've gotta suspend a LOT of disbelief. Hmm, I just defeated a blind lawyer in court even though he knew I was lying. Tonight, a blind superhero who knows all about court this afternoon beats the living crap out of me. What a coincidence! Joseph On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 05:45:32PM -0500, Linda Stover wrote: >Jim, > >I don't think this is quite what people are referring to. When >someone romanticizes blindness, they often make it look far easier to >be blind than it is. A particularly overused clitche is to give the >blind individual special "superpowers" arising from their blindness. > >For example, about five years ago, there was a movie produced called >Daredevil. The protagonist of the film was a blind vidgulantee. This >man, using only the senses of hearing/smell/touch could stalk >criminals across the rooftops of buildings in the dead of night, and >was a very accurate knifethrower seeing as he couldn't see his >targets. This is the type of scenario people are referring to when >they speak of romanticizing blindness. Hth >Courtney > >On 4/23/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hey, >> >> Does romanticisation of blindness have anything to do with >> dependence/interdependence? In romances, relationships, and family, there is >> a certian amout of interdependence among the lovebirds. is it because blind >> people are already closer to dependency than others, that we are some how >> inherently more qualified for a relationship? Or is it based on society's >> view of romance that one partner strives to take care of the other (ie. the >> man as the "bread winner"), thus there is a natural tendanc to view blind >> people in a similar light, that we need/want to be taken care of like the >> helpless housewife (put away your claws ladies, I;m not suggesting women are >> helpless or need/want to be taken cvare of). >> Ive never been good at philosopy. >> >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From habnkid at aol.com Sun Apr 26 06:10:11 2009 From: habnkid at aol.com (Haben Girma) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:10:11 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> References: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> Hey Jedi, I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" would send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure how the phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is something that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain that? And thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating reading. Haben Jedi wrote: > Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or > intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." > Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." > we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had > a lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with > phrases that have a negative connotation or that are considered > negative or stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. > Jernigan would argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as > "person with a disability" except that "disabled person" is less > linguisticly awkward when used multiple times in a document or in > speech. He would also argue that "person with a disability" might > actually increase the stigma because we're effectively saying that the > disability part is something we're not supposed to bring any attention > to. Jernigan wrote an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." > It's an interesting article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person > and let people qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get > to know me, they will undoubtedly find that whatever negative > assumptions they have are dead wrong. > Original message: > >> Hi Mark, > >> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > >> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > >> Haben > >> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>> most of >>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>> persons >>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>> disability >>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>> particular >>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the >>> problem is in >>> me. > >>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how >>> we think >>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether >>> we are >>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I >>> end up >>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. > >>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>> Canada's >>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every >>> time I say >>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>> disability. >>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that >>> it only >>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>> there >>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, >>> and this >>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>> that the >>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability >>> today. Far >>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things >>> to be >>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>> special >>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>> and it >>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>> disability >>> differently. > >>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>> disability, >>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>> anyway >>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>> and for >>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>> think >>> it's the right way of looking at it. > >>> Best, > >>> Marc > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? > > >>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? > >>> Haben > >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>> guilty >>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with > >>> this > >>>> topic. > >>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>> What I >>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>> blindness > >>> is > >>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>> blindness >>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>> factors. > >>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>> seem > >>> to > >>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>> blindness. >>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be >>>> eliminated if >>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in > >>> short, > >>>> society itself, were different. > >>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>> time > >>> and > >>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind > >>> Canadians. > >>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>> challenges >>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life >>>> living in a >>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>> where >>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was > >>> viewed > >>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the >>>> world to > >>> be > >>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best > >>> training > >>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought > >>> experiments > >>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>> blind? > >>> I > >>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, > >>> we'll > >>>> never really know for sure. > >>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > >>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>> is not >>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social >>>> forces, but > >>> you > >>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>> more > >>> than > >>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>> possess >>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>> skin >>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>> possess the >>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>> cases, >>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>> result > >>> in > >>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>> Here's >>>> hoping anyways. > >>>> Best, > >>>> Marc > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? > > >>>> Marc, > >>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>> physical >>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>> about >>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > >>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>> with >>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. > >>>> Antonio Guimaraes > >>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>> pickup >>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>> number of >>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>> literary >>>> works in Braille. > >>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>> question? > > > >>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with > >>> which, > >>>>> I >>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade > >>> some > >>>>> of you. > >>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>> codified >>>>> in >>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>> Impairments, >>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. > >>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>> trait >>>>> or >>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>> could be >>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>> meaningless >>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>> contexts, >>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>> imposed >>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. > >>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my > >>> building. > >>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>> many >>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more >>>>> disabled than >>>>> me >>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>> respect >>>>> to >>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>> elevators in >>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>> openers, >>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many >>>>> people in >>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments >>>>> would not >>>>> significantly impact on their lives. > >>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>> arrangements, >>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that > >>> make > >>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. >>>>> All of >>>>> these >>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>> blindness. My >>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what >>>>> Jernigan had > >>> in > >>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>> while >>>>> since >>>>> I read his work. > >>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>> that's >>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>> They >>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of > >>> disability. > >>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote >>>>> the law >>>>> were >>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>> disabled >>>>> in >>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>> available, >>>>> then >>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > >>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>> put it >>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>> quotation >>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>> support the >>>>> position I've outlined. > >>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>> problem >>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>> blind >>>>> person >>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>> physical >>>>> nuisance. > >>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack >>>>> of eye >>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>> lack of >>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid >>>>> of the >>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>> nuisance >>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Marc > >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? > > >>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > >>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>> certain >>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>> students, >>>>> we >>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a > >>> major > >>>>> life function, sight. > >>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for > >>> blind > >>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > >>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to >>>>> minimize my >>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>> attitude, >>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. > >>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> > >>>>> ca > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> > >>>> ca > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> >>> ca > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 07:57:46 2009 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:57:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com><002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com><001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: If you're going to a place where the infrastructure is scanty, then do look in to your destination and be ready to be wrested from your comfort zone at second 1, but go! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Fernandez" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 21:21 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise Hi all. Priscilla. If you don't feel completely confortable with traveling alone, maybe perhaps you should consider postponing your trip. If it is a program through the college, and they absolutely refuse to let you travel alone, CEA, is an agency that has programs abroad for college students all over the world. You will still get credits, but it will not be a program through your college. Thus, allowing you to make the decision of how you want to travel. This time will also allow you to set certain goals, so that by the time you travel to europe you are more confident, like Arielle said, and have the normal nerves we all have when traveling abroad, but have earned the knowledge you can surpass this challenge as well. Sometimes, making decisions about these situations, and being realistic about our capabilities and skills is difficult. If I did not feel prepare to go to France, and knew that perhaps, I just had the most horrendous mobility skills, and could not travel by myself, I would not go this summer. Instead, I would wait until a time, when I knew that I had all the necessary skills to be as independent as possible. So that when people told me, you can't go because of X reason, I could say yes I can, and truly believe it. But no matter how prepare you are, you will be nervous. What I'm trying to get to, is perhaps to step back in these last few days and consider all your options. 1. Hire someone who is going on the trip. 2. Ask about signing a waver to be able to be freed of the compliance rules. And going by yourself. 3. Taking a later trip to europe, and looking at CEA or another agency, that is involved with study abroad. You can sometimes even study abroad with other colleges, just do your research, and you will find something. In the meantime, do not let not going now stop you, instead, work hard to improve yourself, so that you are as ready as you'll ever be when studying abroad. Mary On 4/25/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: > One more thing: > > If you're going on a relatively short group trip abroad, where > everyone in the group is going to the same places, staying in the same > hotels, etc. then it's not a problem to just stick with members of the > group, even if they're not close friends. > > I went on a three-week trip to eastern Europe with some students from > my scholarship class whom I knew vaguely but not real well. Since I > didn't speak the language and wasn't a very confident traveler at the > time I walked around with other students in the group (or we'd break > up into small groups). I went with different people at different times > although after a while I did establish a regular group of sorts that I > spent most of my time with. Even though these people weren't close > friends it wasn't like I was a burden to them since they were just > going places they would go anyway and I was just following them. And > it was a great way to make friends! > > So if you want to have a safer experience, agreeing to walk around > with at least one other person (even if it's not always the same > person) is a compromise. Again, there's no reason to bring someone > along just for that purpose. > > Arielle > > On 4/26/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> Hi Lora and all, >> >> Lora, I think you're right. What I meant was postponing the Europe >> trip until next year in order to go to a center and get strong >> blindness skills in the meantime. I feel it's much better to wait and >> be able to do the trip independently rather than going now and not >> being able to participate in the same way as the sighted students. >> >> As for "liability", I don't know the specific legalities, but denying >> a student access to study abroad on account of blindness is, at best, >> questionable under the ADA. They might argue that they're allowing you >> to go on the trip as long as you use what they deem to be a reasonable >> accommodation (the companion/guide), but remember also that under the >> ADA you have the right to refuse a specific accommodation. >> >> This is a kind of situation when getting a local or state NFB officer >> involved might be very helpful. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/26/09, Lora wrote: >>> Arielle >>> I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she >>> said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I >>> totally >>> agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a >>> sighted person right next to you all of the time. >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like >>>> how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored >>>> group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange >>>> program where you take classes at European universities as an >>>> international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's >>>> the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being >>>> part of a school group. >>>> >>>> I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months >>>> during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of >>>> Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and >>>> also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. >>>> In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only >>>> had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I >>>> got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog >>>> school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the >>>> nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course >>>> materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than >>>> that I was on my own. >>>> >>>> I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind >>>> person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time >>>> were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind >>>> students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including >>>> students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. >>>> (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will >>>> I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, >>>> now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the >>>> experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more >>>> independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my >>>> entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t >>>> have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had >>>> a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced >>>> the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country >>>> or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned >>>> about. >>>> >>>> The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by >>>> itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a >>>> new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without >>>> your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have >>>> a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the >>>> NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, >>>> you can get the information you need from lectures by asking >>>> questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to >>>> read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you >>>> can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling >>>> more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers >>>> do. >>>> >>>> However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the >>>> confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. >>>> Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, >>>> confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on >>>> sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want >>>> to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your >>>> sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the >>>> challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some >>>> time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if >>>> you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to >>>> contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller >>>> scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have >>>> the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out >>>> of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. >>>> >>>> Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, >>>> www.nabslink.org >>>> for information about the training that’s available to blind students >>>> and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll >>>> be able to do effectively and on your own. >>>> >>>> Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad >>>> questions. >>>> >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>>> > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>>> > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third >>>> > World, >>>> > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are >>>> > usually >>>> > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes >>>> > in >>>> > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being >>>> > experienced >>>> > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as >>>> > they >>>> > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just >>>> > the >>>> > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more >>>> > willing >>>> > to help. >>>> > >>>> > Haben >>>> > >>>> > Serena wrote: >>>> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>>> >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>> >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend >>>> >> who >>>> >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>>> >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that >>>> >> my >>>> >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>>> >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the >>>> >> case. >>>> >> >>>> >> Serena >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> >> >>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>> >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>> >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but >>>> >>> the >>>> >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>> >>> Beth >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>> that >>>> >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>> >>>> however, >>>> >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>> >>>> acquaintances. My >>>> >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>> >>>> Adventure. I >>>> >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> >>>> nobody >>>> >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>> >>>> blind or, >>>> >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> >>>> younger >>>> >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, >>>> >>>> giving >>>> >>>> him a >>>> >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>> >>>> I know >>>> >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> >>>> international, >>>> >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it >>>> >>>>> makes >>>> >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. >>>> >>>>> We're >>>> >>>>> not that. >>>> >>>>> Beth >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> option >>>> >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. >>>> >>>>>> My >>>> >>>>>> study >>>> >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>> >>>>>> them, so to >>>> >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense >>>> >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>> a legal >>>> >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>> >>>>>> education >>>> >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we >>>> >>>>>> had >>>> a >>>> >>>>>> blast. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>> >>>>>> will be a >>>> >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>> >>>>>> under >>>> >>>>>> your >>>> >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and >>>> >>>>>> take >>>> >>>>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from >>>> >>>>>> disability >>>> >>>>>> services >>>> >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time >>>> >>>>>> is >>>> >>>>>> running >>>> >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>> >>>>>> all my >>>> >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me >>>> >>>>>> scholarships. >>>> >>>>>> They >>>> >>>>>> can >>>> >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>> On >>>> >>>>>> Behalf >>>> >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>> >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>> >>>>>> studying >>>> >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> of >>>> >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>> >>>>>> abroad >>>> >>>>>> with >>>> >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>> >>>>>> Belgium, >>>> >>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>> Brussels. >>>> >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>> >>>>>> concerns for >>>> >>>>>> me >>>> >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>> >>>>>> travel with >>>> >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>> >>>>>> because it >>>> >>>>>> never happened. >>>> >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> >>>>>> mentioned >>>> >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also >>>> >>>>>> I >>>> >>>>>> need >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>> >>>>>> because of >>>> >>>>>> the >>>> >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>> >>>>>> social >>>> >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>> >>>>>> does not >>>> >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>> >>>>>> explained to >>>> >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help >>>> >>>>>> me, >>>> she >>>> >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>> >>>>>> which >>>> >>>>>> was >>>> >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>> >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>> >>>>>> situation and >>>> >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study >>>> >>>>>> abroad >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>> >>>>>> to help >>>> >>>>>> me >>>> >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off >>>> >>>>>> than >>>> >>>>>> I am. >>>> >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't >>>> >>>>>> go >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty >>>> >>>>>> soon. >>>> >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to >>>> >>>>>> help >>>> >>>>>> can't >>>> >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>> >>>>>> depend on >>>> >>>>>> mom >>>> >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>> >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>> >>>>>> school >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>> >>>>>> from work >>>> >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to >>>> >>>>>> go >>>> >>>>>> because >>>> >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>> >>>>>> willing >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>> >>>>>> get moor >>>> >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>> 1000 >>>> >>>>>> times >>>> >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> get >>>> >>>>>> used >>>> >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>> >>>>>> to her >>>> >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>> >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel >>>> >>>>>> too >>>> >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>> >>>>>> trip, >>>> >>>>>> but >>>> >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else >>>> >>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>> support. >>>> >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>> >>>>>> deposit the >>>> >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>> unless >>>> >>>>>> they >>>> >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>> >>>>>> signing >>>> >>>>>> up >>>> >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>> other >>>> >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really >>>> >>>>>> appreciate >>>> >>>>>> it. >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>> >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>> >>>>>> learn how >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>> >>>>>> excited to >>>> >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I >>>> >>>>>> get >>>> >>>>>> tutoring >>>> >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays >>>> >>>>>> for >>>> >>>>>> projects >>>> >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>> info >>>> for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> >>>>>> info >>>> for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>>> for >>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>>> for >>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >>> for >>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> >> for >>>> >> nabs-l: >>>> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> > nabs-l: >>>> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Lora >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 10:23:55 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 06:23:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> References: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> <49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> Message-ID: <8E4F4DB733E547879B665D6141B301CD@Jessica> Hello Everyone, As those of you know here in the US in the last five or 10 years or so the field of education has gone from using disability first language to person first language . examples of both are blind person Jane who just happens to be blind. Would you guys be offended if someone called you a blind or visually impaired person instead of saying I'm Jane and I just happen to be blind or visually impaired? Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haben Girma" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > Hey Jedi, > > I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the > phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" would > send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure how the > phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is something > that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain that? And > thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating reading. > > Haben > > Jedi wrote: >> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." Or, >> we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." we say >> a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a lot >> going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases that >> have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would argue >> that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also argue >> that "person with a disability" might actually increase the stigma >> because we're effectively saying that the disability part is something >> we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote an article >> in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting article. As >> for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people qualify that as they >> may. If they take the time to get to know me, they will undoubtedly find >> that whatever negative assumptions they have are dead wrong. >> Original message: >> >>> Hi Mark, >> >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >> >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >> >>> Haben >> >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>> most of >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>> persons >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>> disability >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>> particular >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>> is in >>>> me. >> >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>> think >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>> are >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>> up >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>> Canada's >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>>> say >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>> disability. >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>> only >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>> there >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>> this >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>> that the >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>> Far >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>> be >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>> special >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>>> it >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>> disability >>>> differently. >> >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>> disability, >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>> anyway >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>>> for >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>> think >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >> >>>> Best, >> >>>> Marc >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >> >> >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> >>>> Haben >> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>> guilty >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >> >>>> this >> >>>>> topic. >> >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>> What I >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>> blindness >> >>>> is >> >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>> blindness >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>>> factors. >> >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>> seem >> >>>> to >> >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>> blindness. >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>> if >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >> >>>> short, >> >>>>> society itself, were different. >> >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>> time >> >>>> and >> >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >> >>>> Canadians. >> >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>> challenges >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>> in a >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>> where >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >> >>>> viewed >> >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>> to >> >>>> be >> >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >> >>>> training >> >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >> >>>> experiments >> >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>> blind? >> >>>> I >> >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >> >>>> we'll >> >>>>> never really know for sure. >> >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >> >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>>> not >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>> but >> >>>> you >> >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>> more >> >>>> than >> >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>> possess >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>> skin >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>>> the >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>> cases, >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>> result >> >>>> in >> >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>> Here's >>>>> hoping anyways. >> >>>>> Best, >> >>>>> Marc >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >> >> >>>>> Marc, >> >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>> physical >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>> about >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >> >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>> with >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >> >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>> pickup >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>>> of >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>> literary >>>>> works in Braille. >> >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>> question? >> >> >> >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >> >>>> which, >> >>>>>> I >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >> >>>> some >> >>>>>> of you. >> >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>> codified >>>>>> in >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>> trait >>>>>> or >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>> could be >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>> meaningless >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>> contexts, >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>> imposed >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >> >>>> building. >> >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>> many >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>> than >>>>>> me >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>> respect >>>>>> to >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>> elevators in >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>> openers, >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>> in >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>> not >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >> >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >> >>>> make >> >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>> of >>>>>> these >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>>> My >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>> had >> >>>> in >> >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>> while >>>>>> since >>>>>> I read his work. >> >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>> that's >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>> They >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >> >>>> disability. >> >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>> law >>>>>> were >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>> disabled >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>> available, >>>>>> then >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>> put it >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>> quotation >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>>> the >>>>>> position I've outlined. >> >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>> problem >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> nuisance. >> >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>> eye >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>> lack of >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>> the >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>> nuisance >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> >>>>>> Best, >> >>>>>> Marc >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >> >> >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>> certain >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>> students, >>>>>> we >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >> >>>> major >> >>>>>> life function, sight. >> >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >> >>>> blind >> >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >> >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>> my >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>> attitude, >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>>>> ca >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>>> ca >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> ca >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 26 11:38:32 2009 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:38:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] GRE prep Message-ID: <972477.84530.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings all, Caplen is a national testing fosility with branches in major cities. With this said, they will help acomidate you with both the prep materials, readers, and the accessibility issue with the computers. If the software becomes an issue, they will provide a reader or someone to help with the PCS during the testing. Call 1800 kkaplan for more information and to find your local testing center. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 11:57:00 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:57:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904260457u2cb01cb3j53732c76cd26d16@mail.gmail.com> I"d just go. I can't sit around in my dorm and do nothing, so I'd just go out there and find out what's happening, and just plain go. Beth On 4/26/09, Ben J. Bloomgren wrote: > If you're going to a place where the infrastructure is scanty, then do look > in to your destination and be ready to be wrested from your comfort zone at > second 1, but go! > > Ben > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mary Fernandez" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 21:21 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > > > Hi all. > Priscilla. If you don't feel completely confortable with traveling > alone, maybe perhaps you should consider postponing your trip. If it > is a program through the college, and they absolutely refuse to let > you travel alone, CEA, is an agency that has programs abroad for > college students all over the world. You will still get credits, but > it will not be a program through your college. Thus, allowing you to > make the decision of how you want to travel. This time will also allow > you to set certain goals, so that by the time you travel to europe you > are more confident, like Arielle said, and have the normal nerves we > all have when traveling abroad, but have earned the knowledge you can > surpass this challenge as well. > Sometimes, making decisions about these situations, and being > realistic about our capabilities and skills is difficult. If I did not > feel prepare to go to France, and knew that perhaps, I just had the > most horrendous mobility skills, and could not travel by myself, I > would not go this summer. Instead, I would wait until a time, when I > knew that I had all the necessary skills to be as independent as > possible. So that when people told me, you can't go because of X > reason, I could say yes I can, and truly believe it. But no matter how > prepare you are, you will be nervous. > What I'm trying to get to, is perhaps to step back in these last few > days and consider all your options. > 1. Hire someone who is going on the trip. > 2. Ask about signing a waver to be able to be freed of the compliance > rules. And going by yourself. > 3. Taking a later trip to europe, and looking at CEA or another > agency, that is involved with study abroad. You can sometimes even > study abroad with other colleges, just do your research, and you will > find something. In the meantime, do not let not going now stop you, > instead, work hard to improve yourself, so that you are as ready as > you'll ever be when studying abroad. > Mary > > On 4/25/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >> One more thing: >> >> If you're going on a relatively short group trip abroad, where >> everyone in the group is going to the same places, staying in the same >> hotels, etc. then it's not a problem to just stick with members of the >> group, even if they're not close friends. >> >> I went on a three-week trip to eastern Europe with some students from >> my scholarship class whom I knew vaguely but not real well. Since I >> didn't speak the language and wasn't a very confident traveler at the >> time I walked around with other students in the group (or we'd break >> up into small groups). I went with different people at different times >> although after a while I did establish a regular group of sorts that I >> spent most of my time with. Even though these people weren't close >> friends it wasn't like I was a burden to them since they were just >> going places they would go anyway and I was just following them. And >> it was a great way to make friends! >> >> So if you want to have a safer experience, agreeing to walk around >> with at least one other person (even if it's not always the same >> person) is a compromise. Again, there's no reason to bring someone >> along just for that purpose. >> >> Arielle >> >> On 4/26/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>> Hi Lora and all, >>> >>> Lora, I think you're right. What I meant was postponing the Europe >>> trip until next year in order to go to a center and get strong >>> blindness skills in the meantime. I feel it's much better to wait and >>> be able to do the trip independently rather than going now and not >>> being able to participate in the same way as the sighted students. >>> >>> As for "liability", I don't know the specific legalities, but denying >>> a student access to study abroad on account of blindness is, at best, >>> questionable under the ADA. They might argue that they're allowing you >>> to go on the trip as long as you use what they deem to be a reasonable >>> accommodation (the companion/guide), but remember also that under the >>> ADA you have the right to refuse a specific accommodation. >>> >>> This is a kind of situation when getting a local or state NFB officer >>> involved might be very helpful. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 4/26/09, Lora wrote: >>>> Arielle >>>> I think that Priscilla doesn't have the time to go to a center since she >>>> said that time was running out (please correct me of I am wrong). I >>>> totally >>>> agree that you should be able to go on this trip by yourself without a >>>> sighted person right next to you all of the time. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Arielle Silverman >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla, I am not sure about the details of your proposed trip, like >>>>> how long you're planning to stay and whether it's a school-sponsored >>>>> group trip where a bunch of people go together or simply an exchange >>>>> program where you take classes at European universities as an >>>>> international student. I will, however, give you advice assuming it's >>>>> the most "risky" situation--a prolonged stay in Europe without being >>>>> part of a school group. >>>>> >>>>> I studied in Australia under this type of program for four months >>>>> during the spring of 2007. There I took classes at the University of >>>>> Melbourne, participated in sightseeing and other tourist events, and >>>>> also lived in a residential college (dorm), and I didn't have a guide. >>>>> In fact, I didn't know a single person in the whole country and only >>>>> had had brief email contact with the Australian program coordinator. I >>>>> got a few mobility lessons from a staff member at the local guide dog >>>>> school to learn my way around the campus and from the dorm to the >>>>> nearest tram stop, and I also got electronic copies of my course >>>>> materials from the disability services office in Melbourne. Other than >>>>> that I was on my own. >>>>> >>>>> I’m telling you this not to make myself sound like an amazing blind >>>>> person, because I’m not. On the contrary, my cane skills at that time >>>>> were far from exemplary. The fact is that I’m one of several blind >>>>> students who have traveled abroad without hired companions—including >>>>> students who went to places where English wasn’t the native language. >>>>> (For example, Kate Mendez from New York State went to Japan). Nor will >>>>> I deny the fact that I was scared out of my mind before I went. But, >>>>> now that I’m back safe and sound, I will say wholeheartedly that the >>>>> experience made me a stronger, more flexible, and ultimately a more >>>>> independent adult. Adjusting to life in Colorado after spending my >>>>> entire childhood and college years in Arizona (snow and all) wouldn’t >>>>> have been nearly as easy if I hadn’t gone abroad by myself. If I’d had >>>>> a companion follow me around everywhere, I wouldn’t have experienced >>>>> the ups and downs of trying to make new friends in a foreign country >>>>> or fully appreciated the unique culture and history that I learned >>>>> about. >>>>> >>>>> The point, which I can’t emphasize enough, is that *blindness by >>>>> itself* doesn’t necessitate having a full-time guide or companion in a >>>>> new place. Priscilla, you’re absolutely right to want to go without >>>>> your mother, and any school officials who claim that you have to have >>>>> a full-time companion are mistaken and should talk with members of the >>>>> NFB. If you’re going on a school trip, which it sounds like you are, >>>>> you can get the information you need from lectures by asking >>>>> questions and listening. You can hire other students in your group to >>>>> read printed things to you if they’re absolutely essential, and you >>>>> can go places with other people in the group, or if you’re feeling >>>>> more adventurous, go out there and explore just like sighted travelers >>>>> do. >>>>> >>>>> However, not everyone, blind or sighted, has the desire or the >>>>> confidence to face the challenges of studying abroad on their own. >>>>> Fortunately there’s other ways to build your blindness skills, >>>>> confidence and problem-solving abilities without having to rely on >>>>> sighted companionship. Priscilla, if you want to go abroad, and want >>>>> to have the best experience possible and an experience like what your >>>>> sighted friends are getting, but are worried about handling the >>>>> challenges of getting around etc., then I’d urge you to spend some >>>>> time at one of our NFB training centers before you decide to go, if >>>>> you haven’t already been to one. At a center you will learn how to >>>>> contend with unfamiliar areas and other challenges on a much smaller >>>>> scale before you jump into Europe, and when you come out you will have >>>>> the skills and the confidence to really jump in and get the most out >>>>> of it, without having to be tethered to somebody else. >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla and all, I’d encourage you to look at our Website, >>>>> www.nabslink.org >>>>> for information about the training that’s available to blind students >>>>> and the types of things that, as a well-trained blind student, you’ll >>>>> be able to do effectively and on your own. >>>>> >>>>> Feel free to write me off-list if you have specific study-abroad >>>>> questions. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/25/09, Haben Girma wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>>>> > generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>>>> > case that people from other countries, especially from the Third >>>>> > World, >>>>> > have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are >>>>> > usually >>>>> > taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes >>>>> > in >>>>> > the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being >>>>> > experienced >>>>> > and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as >>>>> > they >>>>> > sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just >>>>> > the >>>>> > tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more >>>>> > willing >>>>> > to help. >>>>> > >>>>> > Haben >>>>> > >>>>> > Serena wrote: >>>>> >> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>>>> >> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>>> >> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend >>>>> >> who >>>>> >> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>>>> >> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that >>>>> >> my >>>>> >> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>>>> >> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the >>>>> >> case. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Serena >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>> >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>> >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but >>>>> >>> the >>>>> >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>> >>> Beth >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>> that >>>>> >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>>> >>>> however, >>>>> >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>>> >>>> acquaintances. My >>>>> >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>>> >>>> Adventure. I >>>>> >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>> >>>> nobody >>>>> >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>> >>>> blind or, >>>>> >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>> >>>> younger >>>>> >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, >>>>> >>>> giving >>>>> >>>> him a >>>>> >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>>> >>>> I know >>>>> >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>> >>>> international, >>>>> >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Serena >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it >>>>> >>>>> makes >>>>> >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. >>>>> >>>>> We're >>>>> >>>>> not that. >>>>> >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>> >>>>>> option >>>>> >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. >>>>> >>>>>> My >>>>> >>>>>> study >>>>> >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>> >>>>>> them, so to >>>>> >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense >>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> a legal >>>>> >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> >>>>>> education >>>>> >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we >>>>> >>>>>> had >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>> >>>>>> will be a >>>>> >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>> >>>>>> under >>>>> >>>>>> your >>>>> >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and >>>>> >>>>>> take >>>>> >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from >>>>> >>>>>> disability >>>>> >>>>>> services >>>>> >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time >>>>> >>>>>> is >>>>> >>>>>> running >>>>> >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>> >>>>>> all my >>>>> >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me >>>>> >>>>>> scholarships. >>>>> >>>>>> They >>>>> >>>>>> can >>>>> >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>> On >>>>> >>>>>> Behalf >>>>> >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>> >>>>>> studying >>>>> >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>> >>>>>> because >>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>> >>>>>> abroad >>>>> >>>>>> with >>>>> >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>> >>>>>> Belgium, >>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>> >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>> >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>> >>>>>> concerns for >>>>> >>>>>> me >>>>> >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>> >>>>>> travel with >>>>> >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>> >>>>>> because it >>>>> >>>>>> never happened. >>>>> >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> >>>>>> mentioned >>>>> >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also >>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> need >>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>> >>>>>> because of >>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>> >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>>> >>>>>> social >>>>> >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>> >>>>>> does not >>>>> >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>> >>>>>> explained to >>>>> >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help >>>>> >>>>>> me, >>>>> she >>>>> >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>> >>>>>> which >>>>> >>>>>> was >>>>> >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>> >>>>>> situation and >>>>> >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study >>>>> >>>>>> abroad >>>>> >>>>>> because >>>>> >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>> >>>>>> to help >>>>> >>>>>> me >>>>> >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off >>>>> >>>>>> than >>>>> >>>>>> I am. >>>>> >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't >>>>> >>>>>> go >>>>> >>>>>> because >>>>> >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty >>>>> >>>>>> soon. >>>>> >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to >>>>> >>>>>> help >>>>> >>>>>> can't >>>>> >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>> >>>>>> depend on >>>>> >>>>>> mom >>>>> >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>> >>>>>> school >>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>> >>>>>> from work >>>>> >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to >>>>> >>>>>> go >>>>> >>>>>> because >>>>> >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>> >>>>>> willing >>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>> >>>>>> get moor >>>>> >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>> 1000 >>>>> >>>>>> times >>>>> >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have >>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>> get >>>>> >>>>>> used >>>>> >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>> >>>>>> to her >>>>> >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel >>>>> >>>>>> too >>>>> >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>> >>>>>> trip, >>>>> >>>>>> but >>>>> >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else >>>>> >>>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>> support. >>>>> >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>> >>>>>> deposit the >>>>> >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>> unless >>>>> >>>>>> they >>>>> >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>> >>>>>> signing >>>>> >>>>>> up >>>>> >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>> other >>>>> >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really >>>>> >>>>>> appreciate >>>>> >>>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>> >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>> >>>>>> learn how >>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>> >>>>>> excited to >>>>> >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I >>>>> >>>>>> get >>>>> >>>>>> tutoring >>>>> >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays >>>>> >>>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>> projects >>>>> >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> >>>>>> info >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>>> >>>>>> info >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>>> for >>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >>> for >>>>> >>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> >> for >>>>> >> nabs-l: >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > nabs-l mailing list >>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> > nabs-l: >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lora >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From sarah at growingstrong.org Sun Apr 26 15:22:10 2009 From: sarah at growingstrong.org (Sarah J. Blake) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:22:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] European universities References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com><002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com><001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has studied at a European university--or knows someone who has. I have considered this as a Ph.d. option; but one of the questions I have is how to handle things like getting oriented and arranging for other accommodations for very short-term trips (two to three weeks) of extremely intensive study. I have good blindness skills but do have some short-term memory loss due to other neurological issues. I considered taking someone with me; but that involves actually funding another ticket. The structure of a European program is extremely appealing to me; but this is a significant question I have. Sarah J. Blake Personal email: sjblake at growingstrong.org http://www.growingstrong.org I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ From freedmas at stolaf.edu Sun Apr 26 16:10:56 2009 From: freedmas at stolaf.edu (Sydney Walker Freedman) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 11:10:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] European universities In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com> <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com> <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: <922c02e40904260910x7cca5721q1c3279df282029ae@mail.gmail.com> Hello! I am in the process of making all of the arrangements for graduate study at the University of Limerick in Ireland. As far as arranging accommodations, find out who the disability services coordinator, housing coordinator, etc. are, as well as your course director, and contact them directly. Also, find the equivalent of voc. rehab. services (in Ireland it's NCBI) and see what they can offer (I will get mobility from them, but that's it). Contact people by e-mail, and set up times to chat over the phone if you can. Let me know if you have any more questions. Pax, Sydney On 4/26/09, Sarah J. Blake wrote: > I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has studied at a European > university--or knows someone who has. I have considered this as a Ph.d. > option; but one of the questions I have is how to handle things like getting > oriented and arranging for other accommodations for very short-term trips > (two to three weeks) of extremely intensive study. I have good blindness > skills but do have some short-term memory loss due to other neurological > issues. I considered taking someone with me; but that involves actually > funding another ticket. The structure of a European program is extremely > appealing to me; but this is a significant question I have. > > Sarah J. Blake > Personal email: sjblake at growingstrong.org > http://www.growingstrong.org > > > I'm protected by SpamBrave > http://www.spambrave.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu > From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 17:17:40 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 10:17:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] As finals approach, remember to relax, Things could be worse... In-Reply-To: <36397.53261.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <36397.53261.qm@web65709.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090426171740.GB26563@yumi.bluecherry.net> Jim, First, note that you posted an image to a list full of blind people. Most of us didn't get the joke. That's possibly a good thing, since the joke isn't exactly work-safe. Joseph On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 10:42:26AM -0700, Jim Reed wrote: >http://www.kevin.roussel.com/images/Jokes/Things%20can%20get%20worse.jpg > >"Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 26 19:01:18 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] GRE prep Message-ID: <43488.70529.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello, In response to whomever wrote the message to call Kaplan to secure test accomidations, you are wrong; you may wish to call Kaplan for accessable prep materials, but not for testing accomidations.  Kaplan is the company that produces the prep books and prep classes for the GRE. The company that writes/distributes the actual test is Educational Testing Service (ETS). That is who checks must be made out to when paying for the GRE. To the best of my knowledge, Kaplan and ETS do not work together; there was something in my Kaplan prep book inviting students who have taken the exam to report back to Kaplan, thus Kaplan can monitor changes in the GRE, and put out the most accurate review materials possible. If I can be of any furthwer assistance regarding GRe/GRE prep, please let me know. Here is the correct contact info you need: GRE home page: http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menuitem.fab2360b1645a1de9b3a0779f1751509/?vgnextoid=b195e3b5f64f4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD  GRE prep page (including full length practice exam) http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menuitem.1488512ecfd5b8849a77b13bc3921509/?vgnextoid=302b66f22c6a5010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD&vgnextchannel=d687e3b5f64f4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD GRE disability accomidations web page: http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menuitem.1488512ecfd5b8849a77b13bc3921509/?vgnextoid=e7edb17a180f7110VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD&vgnextchannel=3a6946f1674f4010VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD Other contact info for the ETS accomidations department Contacting ETS Disability Services Monday-Friday 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. New York time Phone: 1-609-771-7780 1-866-387-8602 (toll free for test takers in the United States, U.S. Territories* and Canada) E-mail: stassd at ets.org TTY: 1-609-771-7714 Fax: 1-609-771-7165 Mail:ETS Disability ServicePO Box 6054Princeton, NJ 08541–6054I hope this helps Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 26 19:11:50 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention Message-ID: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this case, sharing isn't caring. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 26 19:42:58 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:42:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <8E4F4DB733E547879B665D6141B301CD@Jessica> References: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> <49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> <8E4F4DB733E547879B665D6141B301CD@Jessica> Message-ID: The one that bothers me is to be called a "person with blindness." It sounds to contrived. Dave At 05:23 AM 4/26/2009, you wrote: >Hello Everyone, >As those of you know here in the US in the last five or 10 years or so the >field of education has gone from using disability first language to person >first language . examples of both are blind person Jane who just happens >to be blind. Would you guys be offended if someone called you a blind or >visually impaired person instead of saying I'm Jane and I just happen to be >blind or visually impaired? >Jessica >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Haben Girma" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:10 AM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > > > > Hey Jedi, > > > > I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the > > phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" would > > send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure how the > > phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is something > > that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain that? And > > thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating reading. > > > > Haben > > > > Jedi wrote: > >> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or > >> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." Or, > >> we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." we say > >> a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a lot > >> going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases that > >> have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or > >> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would argue > >> that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a > >> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward > >> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also argue > >> that "person with a disability" might actually increase the stigma > >> because we're effectively saying that the disability part is something > >> we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote an article > >> in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting article. As > >> for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people qualify that as they > >> may. If they take the time to get to know me, they will undoubtedly find > >> that whatever negative assumptions they have are dead wrong. > >> Original message: > >> > >>> Hi Mark, > >> > >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" > >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read > >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" > >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full > >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these > >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would > >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" > >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone > >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and > >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would > >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than > >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. > >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a > >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term > >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons > >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the > >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a > >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred > >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm > >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, > >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons > >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the > >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess > >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" > >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. > >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would > >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with > >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms > >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and > >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > >> > >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid > >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be > >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all > >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's > >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > >> > >>> Haben > >> > >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in > >>>> most of > >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than > >>>> persons > >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a > >>>> disability > >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be > >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a > >>>> particular > >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem > >>>> is in > >>>> me. > >> > >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we > >>>> think > >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we > >>>> are > >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end > >>>> up > >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to > >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. > >> > >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of > >>>> Canada's > >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the > >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I > >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't > >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I > >>>> say > >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about > >>>> disability. > >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it > >>>> only > >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our > >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, > >>>> there > >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a > >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When > >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and > >>>> this > >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was > >>>> that the > >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the > >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. > >>>> Far > >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into > >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to > >>>> be > >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets > >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the > >>>> special > >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the > >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and > >>>> it > >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about > >>>> disability > >>>> differently. > >> > >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a > >>>> disability, > >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability > >>>> anyway > >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and > >>>> for > >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't > >>>> think > >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. > >> > >>>> Best, > >> > >>>> Marc > >> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma > >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM > >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>>> question? > >> > >> > >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with > >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the > >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so > >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? > >> > >>>> Haben > >> > >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >> > >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel > >>>>> guilty > >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with > >> > >>>> this > >> > >>>>> topic. > >> > >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. > >>>>> What I > >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being > >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that > >>>>> blindness > >> > >>>> is > >> > >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because > >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, > >>>>> blindness > >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social > >>>>> factors. > >> > >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is > >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we > >>>>> seem > >> > >>>> to > >> > >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to > >>>>> blindness. > >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated > >>>>> if > >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in > >> > >>>> short, > >> > >>>>> society itself, were different. > >> > >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my > >>>>> time > >> > >>>> and > >> > >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than > >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind > >> > >>>> Canadians. > >> > >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the > >>>>> challenges > >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible > >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my > >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living > >>>>> in a > >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world > >>>>> where > >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was > >> > >>>> viewed > >> > >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world > >>>>> to > >> > >>>> be > >> > >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best > >> > >>>> training > >> > >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into > >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people > >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I > >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought > >> > >>>> experiments > >> > >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be > >>>>> blind? > >> > >>>> I > >> > >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, > >> > >>>> we'll > >> > >>>>> never really know for sure. > >> > >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > >> > >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or > >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is > >>>>> not > >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, > >>>>> but > >> > >>>> you > >> > >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase > >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some > >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them > >>>>> more > >> > >>>> than > >> > >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to > >>>>> possess > >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin > >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant > >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other > >>>>> skin > >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess > >>>>> the > >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those > >>>>> cases, > >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and > >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually > >>>>> result > >> > >>>> in > >> > >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. > >>>>> Here's > >>>>> hoping anyways. > >> > >>>>> Best, > >> > >>>>> Marc > >> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM > >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>>>> question? > >> > >> > >>>>> Marc, > >> > >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a > >>>>> physical > >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument > >>>>> about > >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > >> > >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or > >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest > >>>>> with > >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. > >> > >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes > >> > >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of > >>>>> pickup > >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number > >>>>> of > >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great > >>>>> literary > >>>>> works in Braille. > >> > >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. > >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 > >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: > >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >> > >>>> question? > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with > >> > >>>> which, > >> > >>>>>> I > >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade > >> > >>>> some > >> > >>>>>> of you. > >> > >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction > >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is > >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even > >>>>>> codified > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of > >>>>>> Impairments, > >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. > >> > >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any > >>>>>> trait > >>>>>> or > >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve > >>>>>> could be > >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially > >>>>>> meaningless > >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social > >>>>>> contexts, > >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are > >>>>>> imposed > >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. > >> > >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my > >> > >>>> building. > >> > >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, > >>>>>> many > >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled > >>>>>> than > >>>>>> me > >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen > >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this > >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with > >>>>>> respect > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put > >>>>>> elevators in > >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door > >>>>>> openers, > >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would > >>>>>> not > >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. > >> > >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social > >>>>>> arrangements, > >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that > >> > >>>> make > >> > >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> these > >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. > >>>>>> My > >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan > >>>>>> had > >> > >>>> in > >> > >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a > >>>>>> while > >>>>>> since > >>>>>> I read his work. > >> > >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but > >>>>>> that's > >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. > >>>>>> They > >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of > >> > >>>> disability. > >> > >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the > >>>>>> law > >>>>>> were > >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as > >>>>>> disabled > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are > >>>>>> available, > >>>>>> then > >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet > >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > >> > >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only > >>>>>> put it > >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find > >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a > >>>>>> quotation > >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> position I've outlined. > >> > >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real > >>>>>> problem > >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a > >>>>>> blind > >>>>>> person > >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a > >>>>>> physical > >>>>>> nuisance. > >> > >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of > >>>>>> eye > >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and > >>>>>> lack of > >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical > >>>>>> nuisance > >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > >> > >>>>>> Best, > >> > >>>>>> Marc > >> > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On > >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM > >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>>>>> question? > >> > >> > >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > >> > >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do > >>>>>> certain > >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled > >>>>>> students, > >>>>>> we > >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a > >> > >>>> major > >> > >>>>>> life function, sight. > >> > >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for > >> > >>>> blind > >> > >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > >> > >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize > >>>>>> my > >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive > >>>>>> attitude, > >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. > >> > >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >> > >>>>>> ca > >> > >> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >> > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > >> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >> > >> > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >> > >>>>> ca > >> > >> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> > >>>> nabs-l: > >> > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >> > >> > >> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>>> ca > >> > >> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > >> > >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 26 19:50:12 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:50:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice References: <4383d01d0904251635n4d6c072bueb30728e7f89724b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5084DBA017C646D7A7A43E3FD9824EB7@Ashley> Beth, Read the message carefully. She has to deal with liability because of the compliance office. This is being imposed on her. I think this is discrimination. Beth, she cannot just go on the trip due to the rules she is under. They are requiring her to be assisted. I think this is way wrong. Just because she is blind does not make her more of a liability. Its nice FSU is not like that raising irrational concerns about liability. Such concerns are based on the false notion that the blind cannot travel safely and are more of a safety hazard than other travelers. Sadly these problems about liability are still around in 2009. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice >I think you should just go. Why bother with compliance and stuff? > Why bother with liability? FSU would be very happy to let me go to > London to studyabroad. I don't think I would haveany troble. > Everybod here is really adamant that I be as independent as possible. > But just for kicks, I'd bring a friend because I am a woman, and I > don't want toget raped and possibly haveto go through the laws that > the country has regarding rape. The good new is you're not going to > Saudi Arabia, where a blind woman was put in jail for premarital sex > since she couldn't identify her rapist. Sad. > Beth > > On 4/25/09, priscilla wrote: >> hey all, >> I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. >> but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on the >> trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what really >> annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and >> stuff. >> another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out >> the >> legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to >> approve >> it. >> but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have >> someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, >> because >> of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with >> disabilities services. >> I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. >> what do you all think? >> >> Thank you very much. >> I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need >> deposits in as soon as possible. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: >> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM >> To: >> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >> >>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >>> 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >>> 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) >>> 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) >>> 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) >>> 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) >>> 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) >>> 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) >>> 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) >>> 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. >>> Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) >>> 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) >>> 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >>> 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >>> 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >>> 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >>> 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) >>> 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? >>> (Haben Girma) >>> 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) >>> 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) >>> 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> Hi Jim, >>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars >>> for >>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross >>> the >>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>> being >>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>> you >>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >>> you >>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>> risk >>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>> cannot >>> hear. >>> >>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >>> on >>> the car to hear it. >>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >>> be >>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>> >>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>> will >>> fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. >>> We >>> are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, >>> that >>> silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jim Reed" >>> To: "MAB List" >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> >>> Hello, >>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>> might >>> pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, >>> there >>> is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign >>> oil, >>> and enviromental damage. >>> >>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>> support >>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great >>> leap >>> in >>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>> it >>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>> impact >>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>> importiant >>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>> dependence >>> of forign oil. >>> >>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>> of >>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >>> you >>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>> collapes. >>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering >>> it. >>> >>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>> changing >>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >>> of >>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>> >>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>> societal >>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>> decline. >>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>> refuse to adapt. >>> >>> Well thats my two cents >>> Jim >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 >>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> Jont, >>> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >>> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >>> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it >>> will >>> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >>> wear >>> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears >>> off >>> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >>> >>> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >>> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is >>> still >>> >>> a >>> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "jonte" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> >>>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>>> I >>>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>>> companies to accommodate us. >>>> Jonte >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Robert Spangler >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something >>>> that >>>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Robby >>>> >>>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>>> dependence >>>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>> >>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>>> this >>>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>>> >>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>> development >>>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially >>>>> be >>>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our >>>>> economy >>>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>>> Detroit, >>>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>>> hindering it. >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>>> in >>>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>>> methodologies? >>>>> >>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>> societal >>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>>> because >>>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>>> >>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: Jim Reed >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment >>> seminars >>> To: NABS mail list >>> Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> NABS board and officers, >>> >>> I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job >>> training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and >>> successful employment counters stereotypes. >>> >>> I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value >>> associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar >>> that >>> >>> could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For >>> example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know >>> an >>> >>> answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, >>> and >>> >>> I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all >>> students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If >>> they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will >>> ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of >>> older people, proffessionals, and strangers? >>> >>> Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills >>> and >>> >>> knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some of >>> us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have >>> never >>> >>> looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the >>> education/training needs to start at the most basic level. >>> >>> I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should >>> host >>> >>> its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. >>> >>> ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention >>> efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not >>> compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is >>> availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a >>> NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of >>> project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. >>> >>> I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do >>> so. >>> >>> Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading >>> this >>> on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; >>> they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough >>> phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and >>> I >>> >>> have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and >>> to the needs of their voters... >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 >>> From: "priscilla" >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>> with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>> to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>> and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>> am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>> work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>> willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I >>> will >>> >>> get moor information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>> to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays >>> for >>> >>> projects which I need help in. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 >>> From: Elizabeth >>> Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >>> To: >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> >>> Hello List, >>> >>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but >>> I >>> >>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list >>> from >>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not >>> an >>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>> college student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>> >>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >>> for anything related to the upcoming national convention including >>> answering any questions you might have about what resources might be >>> available in our state. >>> >>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning >>> of >>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes >>> are >>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>> of >>> >>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>> please feel free to contact me off list. >>> >>> Elizabeth >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 6 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 >>> From: jonte >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> >>> Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane >>> that would detect a hybrid car. >>> I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not >>> throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been >>> developed that could save my life. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ashley Bramlett >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> Jont, >>> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >>> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >>> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it >>> will >>> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >>> wear >>> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears >>> off >>> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >>> >>> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >>> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is >>> still >>> >>> a >>> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >>> >>> Ashley >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "jonte" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> >>> >>>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>>> I >>>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>>> companies to accommodate us. >>>> Jonte >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Robert Spangler >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something >>>> that >>>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Robby >>>> >>>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>>> dependence >>>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>> >>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>>> this >>>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>>> >>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>> development >>>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially >>>>> be >>>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our >>>>> economy >>>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>>> Detroit, >>>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>>> hindering it. >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>>> in >>>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>>> methodologies? >>>>> >>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>> societal >>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>>> because >>>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>>> >>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Robert Spangler >>>> The University of Toledo >>>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 7 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 >>> From: Mary Fernandez >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the >>> trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two >>> students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do >>> it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go >>> alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of >>> them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely >>> on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. >>> This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to >>> hiring a reader or something along those lines. >>> So thinkabout it. >>> Mary >>> >>> On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>> of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>> help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>> can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>> moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>> how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>> to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> Emory University 2012 >>> P.O. Box 123056 >>> Atlanta Ga. >>> 30322 >>> Phone: 732-857-7004 >>> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >>> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >>> President Barack Obama >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 8 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 >>> From: anna parker >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people >>> who >>> can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because >>> i >>> do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough >>> crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i >>> strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be >>> done >>> now >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Jim, >>>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars >>>> for >>>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross >>>> the >>>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>>> being >>>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>>> you >>>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you >>>> saying >>>> you >>>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>>> risk >>>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>>> cannot >>>> hear. >>>> >>>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be >>>> noise >>>> on >>>> the car to hear it. >>>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I >>>> cannot >>>> be >>>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>>> >>>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>>> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >>>> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on >>>> this >>>> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >>>> To: "MAB List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>> hand, >>>> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >>>> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>> >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support >>>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great >>>> leap >>>> >>>> in >>>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>>> it >>>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>>> impact >>>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>>> importiant >>>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>>> dependence >>>> of forign oil. >>>> >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>> development >>>> of >>>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >>>> you >>>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>> collapes. >>>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing >>>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the >>>> era >>>> of >>>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>>> >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal >>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>> decline. >>>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>>> refuse to adapt. >>>> >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 >>> From: anna parker >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> hey Elizabeth >>> my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if >>> youd >>> like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming >>> sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me >>> Anna >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hello List, >>>> >>>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, >>>> but >>>> I >>>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list >>>> from >>>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not >>>> an >>>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>>> college >>>> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>>> >>>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions >>>> within >>>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact >>>> person >>>> for >>>> anything related to the upcoming national convention including >>>> answering >>>> any >>>> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >>>> state. >>>> >>>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning >>>> of >>>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes >>>> are >>>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>>> of >>>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>>> please >>>> feel free to contact me off list. >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>>> >>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 10 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 >>> From: "Tai Blas" >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >>> seminar. Who wants to help? >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the >>> convention. >>> He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use >>> his >>> equipment. contact him at the national center. >>> Tai Blas >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >>> seminar. >>> Who wants to help? >>> >>> Hi again, >>> >>> Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this >>> thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career >>> seminar. (It's been a long week!) >>> >>> Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need >>> to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention >>> general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, >>> who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the >>> right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>> Hi Jim and all, >>>> >>>> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >>>> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >>>> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >>>> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >>>> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >>>> the year. >>>> >>>> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >>>> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >>>> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >>>> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >>>> >>>> Arielle Silverman >>>> First Vice-President, NABS >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>>>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound >>>>> board. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>>>> career >>>>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>>>> vollenter >>>>>> to >>>>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>>>> tomarrow), >>>>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>>>> ball >>>>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>>>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in >>>>>> digest >>>>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>>>> >>>>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>>>> equipment? >>>>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide >>>>>> the >>>>>> equipment. >>>>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>>>> funda >>>>>> avaliable? >>>>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> find out where. >>>>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and >>>>>> drop-off >>>>>> the >>>>>> gear. >>>>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would >>>>>> be >>>>>> willing to allow us >>>>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>>>> recording/production as a project. >>>>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or >>>>>> the >>>>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>>>> P.A. >>>>>> system that >>>>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>>>> >>>>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>>>> people >>>>>> willing to take >>>>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording >>>>>> duties? >>>>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>>>> boards >>>>>> or what >>>>>> not. >>>>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>>>> >>>>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>>>>> plan >>>>>> accordingly. >>>>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V >>>>>> material >>>>>> along with the video. >>>>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned >>>>>> and >>>>>> upoaded. >>>>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>>>>> dated) permission from >>>>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and >>>>>> materials >>>>>> on >>>>>> the web. I know >>>>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont >>>>>> take >>>>>> further action until I >>>>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, >>>>>> "trust, >>>>>> but >>>>>> verify." >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co >>> m >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 11 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 >>> From: "Jason Mandarino" >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>> to >>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>> legal >>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>> blast. >>> >>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>> your >>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>> services >>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>> running >>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>> can >>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>> >>> Just some ideas. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Mandarino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of priscilla >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> Dear all listers, >>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>> of >>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>> with >>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>> and >>> Brussels. >>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>> me >>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>> with >>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>> never happened. >>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>> mentioned >>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>> to >>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>> the >>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>> to >>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>> was >>> pretty sad. >>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>> and >>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>> because >>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>> me >>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>> because >>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>> mom >>> as a last resort. >>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>> to >>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>> work >>> that are a week's worth or more. >>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>> because >>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>> to >>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>> information because I would like to go too." >>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>> times >>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>> used >>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>> being with me all the time. >>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>> but >>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>> support. >>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>> they >>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>> up >>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>> >>> Thank you very much >>> >>> Good day, >>> >>> Priscilla >>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>> to >>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>> tutoring >>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>> projects >>> which I need help in. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 12 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 >>> From: Beth >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>> not that. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>> option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>> education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>> a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>> of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>> help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>> can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>> moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>> how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>> to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 13 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 >>> From: "Serena" >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>> My >>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>> I >>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>> nobody >>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>> or, >>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>> younger >>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>> a >>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>> know >>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>> international, >>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>> study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>> my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>> They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>> studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>> because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>> for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>> it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>> need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>> not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>> am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>> school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>> willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>> her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>> the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>> signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 14 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 >>> From: Beth >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>> My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>> I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>> blind >>>> or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>> him >>>> a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>> know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>> so >>>>>> to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>> legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>> be >>>>>> a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>> under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>> my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>> abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>> for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>> with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>> it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>> not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>> explained >>>>>> to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>> which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>> and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>> help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>> am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>> on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>> work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>> moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>> her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>> trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>> the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 15 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 >>> From: "Serena" >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any >>> differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>> went >>> with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone >>> else >>> to >>> go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted >>> classmates >>> would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or >>> acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> >>> >>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>> that >>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>>> My >>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>>> I >>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>> nobody >>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>> blind >>>>> or, >>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>> younger >>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>> him >>>>> a >>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>>> know >>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>> international, >>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>> not that. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>> option >>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>> study >>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>>> legal >>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>> education >>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>> services >>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>> running >>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>> studying >>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>> explained >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>> she >>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>> situation >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>>> am. >>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> mom >>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>> school >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>> willing >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>>> moor >>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>> get >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>> support. >>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>> unless >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>> signing >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>> excited >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>> projects >>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 16 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 >>> From: Domonique Lawless >>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5 at mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what >>> accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done >>> to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right >>> direction I would greatly appreciate it. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Domonique Lawless >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 17 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 >>> From: Haben Girma >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405 at aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> >>> Hi Mark, >>> >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>> >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>> most >>>> of >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>> persons >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>> disability >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>> particular >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>> is >>>> >>>> in >>>> me. >>>> >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>> think >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>> are >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>> up >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>>> >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>> Canada's >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>>> say >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>> disability. >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>> only >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>> there >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>> this >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>> that >>>> the >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>> Far >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>> be >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>> special >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>>> it >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>> disability >>>> differently. >>>> >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>> disability, >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>> anyway >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>>> for >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>> think >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>> guilty >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >>>>> >>>> this >>>> >>>>> topic. >>>>> >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>> What >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>> blindness >>>>> >>>> is >>>> >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>> blindness >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>>> factors. >>>>> >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>> seem >>>>> >>>> to >>>> >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>> blindness. >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>> if >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>>> >>>> short, >>>> >>>>> society itself, were different. >>>>> >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>> time >>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>>> >>>> Canadians. >>>> >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>> challenges >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>> where >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>>> >>>> viewed >>>> >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>> to >>>>> >>>> be >>>> >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>>> >>>> training >>>> >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>>> >>>> experiments >>>> >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>> blind? >>>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>>>> >>>> we'll >>>> >>>>> never really know for sure. >>>>> >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>>> >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>>> not >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>> but >>>>> >>>> you >>>> >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>> more >>>>> >>>> than >>>> >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>> possess >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>> skin >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>>> the >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>> cases, >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>> result >>>>> >>>> in >>>> >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>> Here's >>>>> hoping anyways. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Marc >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marc, >>>>> >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>> physical >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>> about >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>> with >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>>>> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>> pickup >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>>> of >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>> literary >>>>> works in Braille. >>>>> >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> >>>> question? >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>>>> >>>> which, >>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>>>>> >>>> some >>>> >>>>>> of you. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>> codified >>>>>> in >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>>>> >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>> trait >>>>>> or >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>> could >>>>>> be >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>> meaningless >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>> contexts, >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>> imposed >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>>>> >>>> building. >>>> >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>> many >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>> than >>>>>> me >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>> respect >>>>>> to >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>> elevators >>>>>> in >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>> openers, >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>> in >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>> not >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>>>>> >>>> make >>>> >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>> of >>>>>> these >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>>> My >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>> had >>>>>> >>>> in >>>> >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>> while >>>>>> since >>>>>> I read his work. >>>>>> >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>> that's >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>> They >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>>>> >>>> disability. >>>> >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>> law >>>>>> were >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>> disabled >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>> available, >>>>>> then >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>> put >>>>>> it >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>> quotation >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>>> the >>>>>> position I've outlined. >>>>>> >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>> problem >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> nuisance. >>>>>> >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>> eye >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>> lack >>>>>> of >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>> the >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>> nuisance >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>> certain >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>> students, >>>>>> we >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>>>> >>>> major >>>> >>>>>> life function, sight. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>>>> >>>> blind >>>> >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>> my >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>> attitude, >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>>>> >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> >>>>>> ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> >>>>> ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 18 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 >>> From: "Wilson, Joanne" (by way of David Andrews >>> ) >>> Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program >>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" >>> >>> >>> Free White Cane Message >>> >>> If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane >>> Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach >>> materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about >>> getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if >>> you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to >>> say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, >>> self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a >>> paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White >>> Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to >>> jwilson at nfb.org. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Joanne Wilson >>> Affiliate Action Executive Director >>> 410-659-9314 extension 2335 >>> jwilson at nfb.org >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>> Name: Free White Cane Message.doc >>> Type: application/msword >>> Size: 30208 bytes >>> Desc: not available >>> URL: >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 19 >>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 >>> From: Haben Girma >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305 at aol.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> >>> Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>> generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>> case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, >>> have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually >>> taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in >>> the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >>> and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >>> sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the >>> tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing >>> to help. >>> >>> Haben >>> >>> Serena wrote: >>>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>>> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>>> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>>> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >>>> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>>> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>>> that >>>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>>>> however, >>>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>>>> acquaintances. My >>>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>>>> Adventure. I >>>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>>> nobody >>>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>>> blind or, >>>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>>> younger >>>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>>> him a >>>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>>>> I know >>>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>>> international, >>>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>>> not that. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>>> study >>>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>>>> them, so to >>>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>>>> a legal >>>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>>>> will be a >>>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>>> under >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>>>> all my >>>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>>>> concerns for >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>>>> travel with >>>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>>> because of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>>>> does not >>>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>>> explained to >>>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>>> situation and >>>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>>>> to help >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>>>> I am. >>>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>>>> depend on >>>>>>>> mom >>>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>>>> from work >>>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>>>> get moor >>>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>>>> to her >>>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>>>> deposit the >>>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>>> signing >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>>>> learn how >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>>> excited to >>>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 20 >>> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 >>> From: Jedi >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> question? >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541 at web2.serotek.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" >>> >>> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >>> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >>> Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." >>> we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a >>> lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases >>> that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >>> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would >>> argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >>> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >>> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also >>> argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the >>> stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is >>> something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote >>> an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting >>> article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people >>> qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they >>> will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are >>> dead wrong. >>> Original message: >>> >>>> Hi Mark, >>> >>>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >>>> persons" >>>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >>>> would >>>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >>>> "persons >>>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>> >>>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>> >>>> Haben >>> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>>> most >>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>>> persons >>>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>>> disability >>>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>>> particular >>>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>>> is in >>>>> me. >>> >>>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>>> think >>>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>>> are >>>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>>> up >>>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>> >>>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>>> Canada's >>>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >>>>> can't >>>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time >>>>> I >>>>> say >>>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>>> disability. >>>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>>> only >>>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>>> there >>>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >>>>> When >>>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>>> this >>>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>>> Far >>>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>>> be >>>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>>> special >>>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >>>>> the >>>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>>>> and >>>>> it >>>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>>> disability >>>>> differently. >>> >>>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>>> disability, >>>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>>> anyway >>>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>>>> and >>>>> for >>>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>>> think >>>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>> >>>>> Best, >>> >>>>> Marc >>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>> >>> >>>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >>>>> so >>>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>> >>>>> Haben >>> >>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>> >>>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>>> guilty >>>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >>>>>> with >>> >>>>> this >>> >>>>>> topic. >>> >>>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>>> What I >>>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>>> blindness >>> >>>>> is >>> >>>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >>>>>> because >>>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >>>>>> social >>>>>> factors. >>> >>>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>>> seem >>> >>>>> to >>> >>>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>>> blindness. >>>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>>> if >>>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>> >>>>> short, >>> >>>>>> society itself, were different. >>> >>>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>>> time >>> >>>>> and >>> >>>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >>>>>> than >>>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>> >>>>> Canadians. >>> >>>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>>> challenges >>>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >>>>>> my >>>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>>> in a >>>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>>> where >>>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>> >>>>> viewed >>> >>>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>>> to >>> >>>>> be >>> >>>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>> >>>>> training >>> >>>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>> >>>>> experiments >>> >>>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>>> blind? >>> >>>>> I >>> >>>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>> >>>>> we'll >>> >>>>>> never really know for sure. >>> >>>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>> >>>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >>>>>> or >>>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>>>> is >>>>>> not >>>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>>> but >>> >>>>> you >>> >>>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>>> more >>> >>>>> than >>> >>>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>>> possess >>>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >>>>>> significant >>>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>>>> possess >>>>>> the >>>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>>> cases, >>>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>>> result >>> >>>>> in >>> >>>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>>> Here's >>>>>> hoping anyways. >>> >>>>>> Best, >>> >>>>>> Marc >>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >>> >>> >>>>>> Marc, >>> >>>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>>> about >>>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>> >>>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>>> with >>>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >>>>>> out. >>> >>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>> >>>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>>> pickup >>>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>>>> number >>>>>> of >>>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>>> literary >>>>>> works in Braille. >>> >>>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>> >>>>> question? >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>> >>>>> which, >>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >>>>>>> persuade >>> >>>>> some >>> >>>>>>> of you. >>> >>>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >>>>>>> distinction >>>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>>> codified >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>> >>>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>>> trait >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>>> meaningless >>>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>>> contexts, >>>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>>> imposed >>>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>> >>>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>> >>>>> building. >>> >>>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >>>>>>> fifteen >>>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>>> respect >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>>> elevators >>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>>> openers, >>>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>> >>>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >>>>>>> that >>> >>>>> make >>> >>>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>> My >>>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>>> had >>> >>>>> in >>> >>>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> I read his work. >>> >>>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>>> that's >>>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>> >>>>> disability. >>> >>>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>>> law >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>>> available, >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >>>>>>> yet >>>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>> >>>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>>> put >>>>>>> >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>>> quotation >>>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>>>> support >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> position I've outlined. >>> >>>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>>> physical >>>>>>> nuisance. >>> >>>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>>> eye >>>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>>> lack >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>>> nuisance >>>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>> >>>>>>> Best, >>> >>>>>>> Marc >>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> question? >>> >>> >>>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>> >>>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>>> students, >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>> >>>>> major >>> >>>>>>> life function, sight. >>> >>>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>> >>>>> blind >>> >>>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>> >>>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>>> attitude, >>>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>> >>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>> >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> >>>>>>> ca >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>> >>>>>> ca >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> ca >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>> -- >>> REspectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> >>> >>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >>> ************************************** >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From arielle71 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 21:01:55 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:01:55 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> <49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> <8E4F4DB733E547879B665D6141B301CD@Jessica> Message-ID: Hi all, While I understand the theory behind using “person-first” language, I have to agree with Jedi. In English the convention is to use descriptive words before the noun they’re describing, and when we go to the trouble of putting the adjective after the noun, I think it calls too much attention to the adjective and implies a negative connotation. After all, we call “women” “women”, not “people who are female”; we call “redheads” “redheads” rather than “people with red hair”, etc. Saying “people who are female”, “people with red hair”, or “people who are blind” sounds awkward and contrived, and I think when we hear these phrases we tend to interpret them as meaning being female, redheaded or blind is something special or inferior. Arielle On 4/27/09, David Andrews wrote: > The one that bothers me is to be called a "person with > blindness." It sounds to contrived. > > Dave > > At 05:23 AM 4/26/2009, you wrote: >>Hello Everyone, >>As those of you know here in the US in the last five or 10 years or so the >>field of education has gone from using disability first language to person >>first language . examples of both are blind person Jane who just happens >>to be blind. Would you guys be offended if someone called you a blind or >>visually impaired person instead of saying I'm Jane and I just happen to >> be >>blind or visually impaired? >>Jessica >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Haben Girma" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:10 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> > Hey Jedi, >> > >> > I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the >> > phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" >> > would >> > send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure how >> > the >> > phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is something >> > that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain that? And >> > thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating reading. >> > >> > Haben >> > >> > Jedi wrote: >> >> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >> >> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >> >> Or, >> >> we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." we >> >> say >> >> a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a lot >> >> going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases >> >> that >> >> have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >> >> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would >> >> argue >> >> that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >> >> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >> >> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also >> >> argue >> >> that "person with a disability" might actually increase the stigma >> >> because we're effectively saying that the disability part is something >> >> we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote an article >> >> in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting article. As >> >> for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people qualify that as >> >> they >> >> may. If they take the time to get to know me, they will undoubtedly >> >> find >> >> that whatever negative assumptions they have are dead wrong. >> >> Original message: >> >> >> >>> Hi Mark, >> >> >> >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >> >>> persons" >> >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >> >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal >> >>> designs" >> >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >> >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >> >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >> >>> would >> >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >> >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. >> >>> Someone >> >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >> >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" >> >>> would >> >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather >> >>> than >> >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >> >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >> >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >> >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >> >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider >> >>> the >> >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >> >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >> >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >> >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >> >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >> >>> "persons >> >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >> >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >> >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >> >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described >> >>> it. >> >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >> >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >> >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both >> >>> terms >> >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >> >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >> >> >> >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a >> >>> kid >> >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to >> >>> be >> >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that >> >>> all >> >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >> >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >> >> >> >>> Haben >> >> >> >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >> >>>> most of >> >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >> >>>> persons >> >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >> >>>> disability >> >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >> >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >> >>>> particular >> >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the >> >>>> problem >> >>>> is in >> >>>> me. >> >> >> >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how >> >>>> we >> >>>> think >> >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether >> >>>> we >> >>>> are >> >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >> >>>> up >> >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try >> >>>> to >> >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> >> >> >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >> >>>> Canada's >> >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called >> >>>> the >> >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and >> >>>> I >> >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >> >>>> can't >> >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time >> >>>> I >> >>>> say >> >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >> >>>> disability. >> >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >> >>>> only >> >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >> >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >> >>>> there >> >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, >> >>>> a >> >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >> >>>> When >> >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >> >>>> this >> >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >> >>>> that the >> >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >> >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >> >>>> Far >> >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >> >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things >> >>>> to >> >>>> be >> >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >> >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >> >>>> special >> >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >> >>>> the >> >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >> >>>> and >> >>>> it >> >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >> >>>> disability >> >>>> differently. >> >> >> >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >> >>>> disability, >> >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >> >>>> anyway >> >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >> >>>> and >> >>>> for >> >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >> >>>> think >> >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >> >> >> >>>> Best, >> >> >> >>>> Marc >> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >> >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >> >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >> >>>> so >> >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> >> >> >>>> Haben >> >> >> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >> >> >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >> >>>>> guilty >> >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >> >>>>> with >> >> >> >>>> this >> >> >> >>>>> topic. >> >> >> >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >> >>>>> What I >> >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from >> >>>>> being >> >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >> >>>>> blindness >> >> >> >>>> is >> >> >> >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >> >>>>> because >> >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >> >>>>> blindness >> >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >> >>>>> social >> >>>>> factors. >> >> >> >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >> >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >> >>>>> seem >> >> >> >>>> to >> >> >> >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >> >>>>> blindness. >> >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >> >>>>> if >> >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >> >> >> >>>> short, >> >> >> >>>>> society itself, were different. >> >> >> >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >> >>>>> time >> >> >> >>>> and >> >> >> >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >> >>>>> than >> >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >> >> >> >>>> Canadians. >> >> >> >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >> >>>>> challenges >> >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's >> >>>>> possible >> >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life >> >>>>> living >> >>>>> in a >> >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >> >>>>> where >> >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >> >> >> >>>> viewed >> >> >> >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the >> >>>>> world >> >>>>> to >> >> >> >>>> be >> >> >> >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >> >> >> >>>> training >> >> >> >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >> >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >> >>>>> people >> >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >> >> >> >>>> experiments >> >> >> >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >> >>>>> blind? >> >> >> >>>> I >> >> >> >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that >> >>>>> exists, >> >> >> >>>> we'll >> >> >> >>>>> never really know for sure. >> >> >> >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >> >> >> >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >> >>>>> or >> >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> not >> >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >> >>>>> but >> >> >> >>>> you >> >> >> >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the >> >>>>> phrase >> >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >> >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >> >>>>> more >> >> >> >>>> than >> >> >> >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >> >>>>> possess >> >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain >> >>>>> skin >> >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >> >>>>> significant >> >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >> >>>>> skin >> >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >> >>>>> possess >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >> >>>>> cases, >> >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >> >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >> >>>>> result >> >> >> >>>> in >> >> >> >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >> >>>>> Here's >> >>>>> hoping anyways. >> >> >> >>>>> Best, >> >> >> >>>>> Marc >> >> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> Marc, >> >> >> >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >> >>>>> physical >> >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >> >>>>> about >> >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >> >> >> >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >> >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >> >>>>> with >> >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >> >>>>> out. >> >> >> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> >> >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >> >>>>> pickup >> >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >> >>>>> number >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >> >>>>> literary >> >>>>> works in Braille. >> >> >> >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >> >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >> >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: >> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >> >> >>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >> >> >> >>>> which, >> >> >> >>>>>> I >> >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >> >>>>>> persuade >> >> >> >>>> some >> >> >> >>>>>> of you. >> >> >> >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >> >>>>>> distinction >> >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >> >>>>>> is >> >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >> >>>>>> codified >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >> >>>>>> Impairments, >> >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> >> >> >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >> >>>>>> trait >> >>>>>> or >> >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >> >>>>>> could be >> >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >> >>>>>> meaningless >> >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >> >>>>>> contexts, >> >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >> >>>>>> imposed >> >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> >> >> >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >> >> >> >>>> building. >> >> >> >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >> >>>>>> many >> >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more >> >>>>>> disabled >> >>>>>> than >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >> >>>>>> fifteen >> >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find >> >>>>>> this >> >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >> >>>>>> respect >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >> >>>>>> elevators in >> >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >> >>>>>> openers, >> >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many >> >>>>>> people >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >> >>>>>> not >> >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >> >> >> >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >> >>>>>> arrangements, >> >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >> >>>>>> that >> >> >> >>>> make >> >> >> >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> these >> >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >> >>>>>> blindness. >> >>>>>> My >> >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >> >>>>>> had >> >> >> >>>> in >> >> >> >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >> >>>>>> while >> >>>>>> since >> >>>>>> I read his work. >> >> >> >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, >> >>>>>> but >> >>>>>> that's >> >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >> >>>>>> They >> >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >> >> >> >>>> disability. >> >> >> >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >> >>>>>> law >> >>>>>> were >> >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >> >>>>>> disabled >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >> >>>>>> available, >> >>>>>> then >> >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >> >>>>>> yet >> >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> >> >> >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >> >>>>>> put it >> >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I >> >>>>>> find >> >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >> >>>>>> quotation >> >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >> >>>>>> support >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> position I've outlined. >> >> >> >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >> >>>>>> problem >> >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >> >>>>>> blind >> >>>>>> person >> >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >> >>>>>> physical >> >>>>>> nuisance. >> >> >> >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> eye >> >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >> >>>>>> lack of >> >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >> >>>>>> nuisance >> >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> >> >> >>>>>> Best, >> >> >> >>>>>> Marc >> >> >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> >> >> >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >> >>>>>> certain >> >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >> >>>>>> students, >> >>>>>> we >> >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of >> >>>>>> a >> >> >> >>>> major >> >> >> >>>>>> life function, sight. >> >> >> >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued >> >>>>>> for >> >> >> >>>> blind >> >> >> >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >> >> >> >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to >> >>>>>> minimize >> >>>>>> my >> >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >> >>>>>> attitude, >> >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> >> >> >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >> >> >>>>>> ca >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >> >> >>>>> ca >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>> ca >> >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From freespirit328 at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 21:55:59 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:55:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream Message-ID: <52B6239C8A9D4FFEA51CC7DEB8B27976@Gateway> Hi all, I just received my new Victor Reader Stream this week, and I have some questions...questions that don't seem to be answered on the CD that came with it. They may seem obvious, but I want to make sure I have all the facts straight. Do I need to go out and buy a DS card in order to play books? If so, what do I need to look for, and where can I find them? Thanks, Jen Shop my AVON online store http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com Get healthy! http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com Contact me: Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-762-3258 (home) 401-644-5607 (cell) freespirit328 at gmail.com SKYPE: J.Aberdeen From dandrews at visi.com Sun Apr 26 22:07:25 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:07:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream In-Reply-To: <52B6239C8A9D4FFEA51CC7DEB8B27976@Gateway> References: <52B6239C8A9D4FFEA51CC7DEB8B27976@Gateway> Message-ID: They are actually called SD cards, for secure digital. They come in different sizes, one gigabyte, 2 gigs, 4, 8, 16. How big a card you buy depends on your budget, and what you want to store on it. They are widely available, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, etc. Dave At 04:55 PM 4/26/2009, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I just received my new Victor Reader Stream this week, and I have >some questions...questions that don't seem to be answered on the CD >that came with it. > >They may seem obvious, but I want to make sure I have all the facts straight. > >Do I need to go out and buy a DS card in order to play books? If so, >what do I need to look for, and where can I find them? > >Thanks, > >Jen >Shop my AVON online store >http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com > >Get healthy! >http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com > >Contact me: > >Jennifer Aberdeen >PO Box 1184 >Woonsocket, RI 02895 >401-762-3258 (home) >401-644-5607 (cell) >freespirit328 at gmail.com >SKYPE: J.Aberdeen >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 22:45:27 2009 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:45:27 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] European universities References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com><002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com><001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene> <49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> <922c02e40904260910x7cca5721q1c3279df282029ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Also know whether the university uses coordinators or not. In Mexico they use coordinators for darn near everything, and the coordinator is your go-between between you and the university. He helped me get used to how to address professors in Mexico and the whole bit. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:10 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] European universities > Hello! > > I am in the process of making all of the arrangements for graduate > study at the University of Limerick in Ireland. As far as arranging > accommodations, find out who the disability services coordinator, > housing coordinator, etc. are, as well as your course director, and > contact them directly. Also, find the equivalent of voc. rehab. > services (in Ireland it's NCBI) and see what they can offer (I will > get mobility from them, but that's it). Contact people by e-mail, and > set up times to chat over the phone if you can. Let me know if you > have any more questions. > > Pax, > Sydney > > On 4/26/09, Sarah J. Blake wrote: >> I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has studied at a >> European >> university--or knows someone who has. I have considered this as a Ph.d. >> option; but one of the questions I have is how to handle things like >> getting >> oriented and arranging for other accommodations for very short-term trips >> (two to three weeks) of extremely intensive study. I have good blindness >> skills but do have some short-term memory loss due to other neurological >> issues. I considered taking someone with me; but that involves actually >> funding another ticket. The structure of a European program is extremely >> appealing to me; but this is a significant question I have. >> >> Sarah J. Blake >> Personal email: sjblake at growingstrong.org >> http://www.growingstrong.org >> >> >> I'm protected by SpamBrave >> http://www.spambrave.com/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freedmas%40stolaf.edu >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 22:47:43 2009 From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:47:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? References: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com><49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> <8E4F4DB733E547879B665D6141B301CD@Jessica> Message-ID: Awesome linguistics there Arielle! You go girl! Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 15:01 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Hi all, While I understand the theory behind using “person-first” language, I have to agree with Jedi. In English the convention is to use descriptive words before the noun they’re describing, and when we go to the trouble of putting the adjective after the noun, I think it calls too much attention to the adjective and implies a negative connotation. After all, we call “women” “women”, not “people who are female”; we call “redheads” “redheads” rather than “people with red hair”, etc. Saying “people who are female”, “people with red hair”, or “people who are blind” sounds awkward and contrived, and I think when we hear these phrases we tend to interpret them as meaning being female, redheaded or blind is something special or inferior. Arielle On 4/27/09, David Andrews wrote: > The one that bothers me is to be called a "person with > blindness." It sounds to contrived. > > Dave > > At 05:23 AM 4/26/2009, you wrote: >>Hello Everyone, >>As those of you know here in the US in the last five or 10 years or so the >>field of education has gone from using disability first language to >>person >>first language . examples of both are blind person Jane who just happens >>to be blind. Would you guys be offended if someone called you a blind or >>visually impaired person instead of saying I'm Jane and I just happen to >> be >>blind or visually impaired? >>Jessica >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Haben Girma" >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:10 AM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> question? >> >> >> > Hey Jedi, >> > >> > I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the >> > phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" >> > would >> > send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure how >> > the >> > phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is >> > something >> > that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain that? And >> > thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating reading. >> > >> > Haben >> > >> > Jedi wrote: >> >> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >> >> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >> >> Or, >> >> we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." we >> >> say >> >> a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a lot >> >> going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases >> >> that >> >> have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >> >> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would >> >> argue >> >> that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >> >> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >> >> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also >> >> argue >> >> that "person with a disability" might actually increase the stigma >> >> because we're effectively saying that the disability part is something >> >> we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote an >> >> article >> >> in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting article. >> >> As >> >> for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people qualify that as >> >> they >> >> may. If they take the time to get to know me, they will undoubtedly >> >> find >> >> that whatever negative assumptions they have are dead wrong. >> >> Original message: >> >> >> >>> Hi Mark, >> >> >> >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >> >>> persons" >> >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could >> >>> read >> >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal >> >>> designs" >> >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >> >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >> >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >> >>> would >> >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled >> >>> person" >> >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. >> >>> Someone >> >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >> >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" >> >>> would >> >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather >> >>> than >> >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >> >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >> >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >> >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are >> >>> persons >> >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider >> >>> the >> >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >> >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially >> >>> incurred >> >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >> >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and >> >>> intelligence, >> >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >> >>> "persons >> >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >> >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >> >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred >> >>> impairments" >> >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described >> >>> it. >> >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it >> >>> would >> >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >> >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both >> >>> terms >> >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >> >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >> >> >> >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a >> >>> kid >> >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to >> >>> be >> >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that >> >>> all >> >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >> >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >> >> >> >>> Haben >> >> >> >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >> >>>> most of >> >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >> >>>> persons >> >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >> >>>> disability >> >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >> >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >> >>>> particular >> >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the >> >>>> problem >> >>>> is in >> >>>> me. >> >> >> >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how >> >>>> we >> >>>> think >> >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether >> >>>> we >> >>>> are >> >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I >> >>>> end >> >>>> up >> >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try >> >>>> to >> >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >> >> >> >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >> >>>> Canada's >> >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called >> >>>> the >> >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and >> >>>> I >> >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >> >>>> can't >> >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every >> >>>> time >> >>>> I >> >>>> say >> >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >> >>>> disability. >> >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that >> >>>> it >> >>>> only >> >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >> >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >> >>>> there >> >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, >> >>>> a >> >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >> >>>> When >> >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, >> >>>> and >> >>>> this >> >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >> >>>> that the >> >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >> >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability >> >>>> today. >> >>>> Far >> >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >> >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things >> >>>> to >> >>>> be >> >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >> >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >> >>>> special >> >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >> >>>> the >> >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >> >>>> and >> >>>> it >> >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >> >>>> disability >> >>>> differently. >> >> >> >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >> >>>> disability, >> >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >> >>>> anyway >> >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >> >>>> and >> >>>> for >> >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >> >>>> think >> >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >> >> >> >>>> Best, >> >> >> >>>> Marc >> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >> >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >> >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >> >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >> >>>> so >> >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >> >> >> >>>> Haben >> >> >> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >> >> >> >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >> >>>>> guilty >> >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >> >>>>> with >> >> >> >>>> this >> >> >> >>>>> topic. >> >> >> >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >> >>>>> What I >> >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from >> >>>>> being >> >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >> >>>>> blindness >> >> >> >>>> is >> >> >> >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >> >>>>> because >> >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >> >>>>> blindness >> >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >> >>>>> social >> >>>>> factors. >> >> >> >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >> >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >> >>>>> seem >> >> >> >>>> to >> >> >> >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >> >>>>> blindness. >> >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be >> >>>>> eliminated >> >>>>> if >> >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, >> >>>>> in >> >> >> >>>> short, >> >> >> >>>>> society itself, were different. >> >> >> >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >> >>>>> time >> >> >> >>>> and >> >> >> >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >> >>>>> than >> >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >> >> >> >>>> Canadians. >> >> >> >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >> >>>>> challenges >> >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's >> >>>>> possible >> >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life >> >>>>> living >> >>>>> in a >> >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >> >>>>> where >> >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness >> >>>>> was >> >> >> >>>> viewed >> >> >> >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the >> >>>>> world >> >>>>> to >> >> >> >>>> be >> >> >> >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >> >> >> >>>> training >> >> >> >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >> >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >> >>>>> people >> >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. >> >>>>> I >> >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >> >> >> >>>> experiments >> >> >> >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >> >>>>> blind? >> >> >> >>>> I >> >> >> >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that >> >>>>> exists, >> >> >> >>>> we'll >> >> >> >>>>> never really know for sure. >> >> >> >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >> >> >> >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >> >>>>> or >> >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> not >> >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social >> >>>>> forces, >> >>>>> but >> >> >> >>>> you >> >> >> >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the >> >>>>> phrase >> >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >> >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >> >>>>> more >> >> >> >>>> than >> >> >> >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >> >>>>> possess >> >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain >> >>>>> skin >> >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >> >>>>> significant >> >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >> >>>>> skin >> >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >> >>>>> possess >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >> >>>>> cases, >> >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals >> >>>>> and >> >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >> >>>>> result >> >> >> >>>> in >> >> >> >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >> >>>>> Here's >> >>>>> hoping anyways. >> >> >> >>>>> Best, >> >> >> >>>>> Marc >> >> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >> >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> Marc, >> >> >> >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >> >>>>> physical >> >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >> >>>>> about >> >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >> >> >> >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >> >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >> >>>>> with >> >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >> >>>>> out. >> >> >> >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> >> >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >> >>>>> pickup >> >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >> >>>>> number >> >>>>> of >> >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >> >>>>> literary >> >>>>> works in Braille. >> >> >> >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >> >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >> >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>>>> From: >> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >> >> >>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion >> >>>>>> with >> >> >> >>>> which, >> >> >> >>>>>> I >> >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >> >>>>>> persuade >> >> >> >>>> some >> >> >> >>>>>> of you. >> >> >> >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >> >>>>>> distinction >> >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >> >>>>>> is >> >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >> >>>>>> codified >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >> >>>>>> Impairments, >> >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >> >> >> >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >> >>>>>> trait >> >>>>>> or >> >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >> >>>>>> could be >> >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >> >>>>>> meaningless >> >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >> >>>>>> contexts, >> >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities >> >>>>>> are >> >>>>>> imposed >> >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >> >> >> >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >> >> >> >>>> building. >> >> >> >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >> >>>>>> many >> >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more >> >>>>>> disabled >> >>>>>> than >> >>>>>> me >> >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >> >>>>>> fifteen >> >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find >> >>>>>> this >> >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >> >>>>>> respect >> >>>>>> to >> >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >> >>>>>> elevators in >> >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >> >>>>>> openers, >> >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many >> >>>>>> people >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments >> >>>>>> would >> >>>>>> not >> >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >> >> >> >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >> >>>>>> arrangements, >> >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >> >>>>>> that >> >> >> >>>> make >> >> >> >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. >> >>>>>> All >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> these >> >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >> >>>>>> blindness. >> >>>>>> My >> >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what >> >>>>>> Jernigan >> >>>>>> had >> >> >> >>>> in >> >> >> >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >> >>>>>> while >> >>>>>> since >> >>>>>> I read his work. >> >> >> >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, >> >>>>>> but >> >>>>>> that's >> >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >> >>>>>> They >> >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >> >> >> >>>> disability. >> >> >> >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> law >> >>>>>> were >> >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >> >>>>>> disabled >> >>>>>> in >> >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >> >>>>>> available, >> >>>>>> then >> >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >> >>>>>> yet >> >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >> >> >> >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >> >>>>>> put it >> >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I >> >>>>>> find >> >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >> >>>>>> quotation >> >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >> >>>>>> support >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> position I've outlined. >> >> >> >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The >> >>>>>> real >> >>>>>> problem >> >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >> >>>>>> blind >> >>>>>> person >> >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >> >>>>>> physical >> >>>>>> nuisance. >> >> >> >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> eye >> >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >> >>>>>> lack of >> >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid >> >>>>>> of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >> >>>>>> nuisance >> >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >> >> >> >>>>>> Best, >> >> >> >>>>>> Marc >> >> >> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >> >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >> >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >> >>>>>> question? >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >> >> >> >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >> >>>>>> certain >> >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >> >>>>>> students, >> >>>>>> we >> >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of >> >>>>>> a >> >> >> >>>> major >> >> >> >>>>>> life function, sight. >> >> >> >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued >> >>>>>> for >> >> >> >>>> blind >> >> >> >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a >> >>>>>> difference. >> >> >> >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to >> >>>>>> minimize >> >>>>>> my >> >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >> >>>>>> attitude, >> >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >> >> >> >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >> >> >>>>>> ca >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>>> for >> >>>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >> >> >>>>> ca >> >> >> >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>>> for >> >> >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >> >> >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >> >>>> ca >> >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> >>>> for >> >>>> nabs-l: >> >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >> >> >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> nabs-l mailing list >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> >>> nabs-l: >> >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun Apr 26 22:51:48 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:51:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise References: Message-ID: <688A0FD00D7543B1B95EAFB91DCDCECC@Ashley> Hi Priscilla, First, when you write watch spelling and write in clear sentences. You have run ons and fragments. You wrote advise when you mean Advice with a C. Advise is a verb, to advise someone. What you want is advice, meaning ideas to help you. I don't mean to be mean. I just want to point it out because it reflects bad on one when you write like this. Since you are in college, I'm sure you can write clearly and well. Show that in your writing. Second on to your question. You should give us more background for us to help. I had many questions when I read this. 1. You indicate where you're studying but that's all. When are you going? If this is a college sponsored thing, surely there's other students going too. 2. How many classes? 3. What is the duration of your stay? 4. You need an assistant. Have you clearly thought about their roles? You may want to write this down because otherwise the guide may do too much. 5. Why would you be going on tours? Is this part of the package and a required part of your studies? 6. What is the lodging? You mentioned hotels. I would think if you're studying you'd live on campus. 7. You said you are traveling with your school. This implies other students are going. How many have signed up? If you went alone, you could get assistance from peers as needed. So far you say you've just asked verbally. Don't take your mother! It won't go well then. I think you have the wrong approach. You need to be agressive about looking and since its an accomodation, I think DSs should help fund it. I really doubt a friend will go along with you just to help for that length of time with no pay. Be realistic. I could not get volunteer readers and you think you're going to get a volunteer for this. Its expensive to travel and plus they are giving up their life while they assist you. Again, I don't want to be harsh. But you say you are frustrated, and I don't think you are being reasonable. It is unreasonable to ask friends to volunteer for this. So I would not be frustrated because you are asking a lot. Priscilla, you will need to pay an assistant if its that important to study abroad! My ideas: Put an ad on campus on boards or newspaper For pay give them an weekly stipend. For a volunteer you might be able to get a newly retired person to do this. If you don't mind going with an older person you could try it. If you wanted to go public you could put an ad in the paper or radio. I think you should pay anyone who goes. Traveling is expensive and they will need to pay for lodging, food, and more. Contact the lions clubs and explain. Contact other volunteer groups such as Rotery club or Kwanis. I hope it works out. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "priscilla" To: Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad > with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of > the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help > me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are > willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will > get moor information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 > times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how > to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited > to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get > tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for > projects which I need help in. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4034 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 00:00:31 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:00:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox Message-ID: <258B1913E8A24AB7BB87F2F453E461FD@Rufus> Hello all, I've reluctantly switched to Firefox as my default browser, mostly because it works better with my work assignments. It seems to work well so far, but two questions for my Firefox experts: 1. When I alt tab out of, and back into, the Firefox browser my cursor position is lost. The cursor jumps back to the top of the page. How can I remedy this? 2. How do I close a single tab in the browser? I'm referring to the equivalent of Control F4 that is true of other tab-oriented software. Thank you in advance for your assistance, and, WebVisum has not been solving my CAPTCHAS as diligently as I was hoping. Are there other related add-ons that would make navigation with JAWS 10 easier? Best, Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 00:21:37 2009 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:21:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Abroad Message-ID: <54f02f10904261721o3d779294ja4a9571abc1da8bf@mail.gmail.com> -- Christina I'll say that this whole thing is stupid. They should just let Priscilla go alone and enjoy herself because this is a good experience for her. If necessary she could use the students in the trip for assistance. I'm sure that if they see that she needs assistance in going from place to place, I'm pretty sure they would turn around and lend her a hand. They're not going to just leave her stranded like that. Even if she takes her mother or a friend, something could still happen. Nobody can always prevent an accident. I don't understand the school's point here. Like someone has said, this is discrimination and it's an issue that should be dealt with. People get sued almost every day for liability issues so I don't see why this is any different. And even if Priscilla takes a year off and goes to the nfb's training centers for training, this liability issue would still be in the way. What if she gets a job somewhere and she has to go to an unfamiliar place to complete her job? What would the boss say, that she has to bring somebody with her to the work place? I certainly hope not. Just my 2 sense here. From jj at bestmidi.com Mon Apr 27 00:27:05 2009 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:27:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox References: <258B1913E8A24AB7BB87F2F453E461FD@Rufus> Message-ID: The first may be a JAWS issue. As for the closing windows question, Control+W is the key you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "NFB-Web" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox > Hello all, > > I've reluctantly switched to Firefox as my default browser, mostly because > it works better with my work assignments. It seems to work well so far, > but > two questions for my Firefox experts: > > 1. When I alt tab out of, and back into, the Firefox browser my cursor > position is lost. The cursor jumps back to the top of the page. How can > I > remedy this? > > 2. How do I close a single tab in the browser? I'm referring to the > equivalent of Control F4 that is true of other tab-oriented software. > > Thank you in advance for your assistance, and, WebVisum has not been > solving > my CAPTCHAS as diligently as I was hoping. Are there other related > add-ons > that would make navigation with JAWS 10 easier? > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4035 (20090425) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From merisa.musemic at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 01:30:52 2009 From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:30:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream In-Reply-To: <52B6239C8A9D4FFEA51CC7DEB8B27976@Gateway> References: <52B6239C8A9D4FFEA51CC7DEB8B27976@Gateway> Message-ID: Hi Jen!I am waiting for my VR stream to arrive. You can get an SD card at electronic stores like Best Buy . Hth! Merisa On 4/26/09, Jennifer Aberdeen wrote: > Hi all, > > I just received my new Victor Reader Stream this week, and I have some > questions...questions that don't seem to be answered on the CD that came > with it. > > They may seem obvious, but I want to make sure I have all the facts > straight. > > Do I need to go out and buy a DS card in order to play books? If so, what do > I need to look for, and where can I find them? > > Thanks, > > Jen > Shop my AVON online store > http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com > > Get healthy! > http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com > > Contact me: > > Jennifer Aberdeen > PO Box 1184 > Woonsocket, RI 02895 > 401-762-3258 (home) > 401-644-5607 (cell) > freespirit328 at gmail.com > SKYPE: J.Aberdeen > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merisa.musemic%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 01:54:19 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:54:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream In-Reply-To: References: <52B6239C8A9D4FFEA51CC7DEB8B27976@Gateway> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904261854i2ab8688fg1d213172b0697fd4@mail.gmail.com> I got my VR stream's SD card thing at Wal-mart for about $30. It shouldn't cost much per gigabyte if you look around. Beth On 4/26/09, David Andrews wrote: > They are actually called SD cards, for secure digital. They come in > different sizes, one gigabyte, 2 gigs, 4, 8, 16. How big a card you > buy depends on your budget, and what you want to store on it. > > They are widely available, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, etc. > > Dave > > At 04:55 PM 4/26/2009, you wrote: >>Hi all, >> >>I just received my new Victor Reader Stream this week, and I have >>some questions...questions that don't seem to be answered on the CD >>that came with it. >> >>They may seem obvious, but I want to make sure I have all the facts >> straight. >> >>Do I need to go out and buy a DS card in order to play books? If so, >>what do I need to look for, and where can I find them? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jen >>Shop my AVON online store >>http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com >> >>Get healthy! >>http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com >> >>Contact me: >> >>Jennifer Aberdeen >>PO Box 1184 >>Woonsocket, RI 02895 >>401-762-3258 (home) >>401-644-5607 (cell) >>freespirit328 at gmail.com >>SKYPE: J.Aberdeen >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> >> >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >> >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >>http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 01:55:35 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:55:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. We were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. Anybody remember that? Beth On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying very > close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient outbreak of > the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this case, sharing > isn't caring. > > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 01:58:01 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:58:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice In-Reply-To: <5084DBA017C646D7A7A43E3FD9824EB7@Ashley> References: <4383d01d0904251635n4d6c072bueb30728e7f89724b@mail.gmail.com> <5084DBA017C646D7A7A43E3FD9824EB7@Ashley> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904261858ma549fd5r50ac6116283c9d33@mail.gmail.com> Oh. Well, then, I'd raise hell about it for lack of a better way to put it That's wht the NFB and good lawyers and a good lasuit can do. And I'd raise the amount of money in the lawsuit so that it would be higher than it would be if you got hurt suddenly and felt the schoo responsible for your being hurt or something. People sue though for ridiculous reasons such as a woman who sued McDonald's for her injury that resulted in spilling coffee on herself. Even thatisn't a wrthy case. Beth On 4/26/09, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Beth, > Read the message carefully. She has to > deal with liability because of the compliance office. > This is being imposed on her. I think this is discrimination. Beth, she > cannot just go on the trip due to the rules she is under. They are > requiring her to be assisted. I think this is way wrong. > Just because she is blind does not make her more of a liability. > > Its nice FSU is not like that raising irrational concerns about liability. > Such concerns are based on the false notion that the blind cannot travel > safely and are more of a safety hazard than other travelers. > Sadly these problems about liability are still around in 2009. > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:35 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice > > >>I think you should just go. Why bother with compliance and stuff? >> Why bother with liability? FSU would be very happy to let me go to >> London to studyabroad. I don't think I would haveany troble. >> Everybod here is really adamant that I be as independent as possible. >> But just for kicks, I'd bring a friend because I am a woman, and I >> don't want toget raped and possibly haveto go through the laws that >> the country has regarding rape. The good new is you're not going to >> Saudi Arabia, where a blind woman was put in jail for premarital sex >> since she couldn't identify her rapist. Sad. >> Beth >> >> On 4/25/09, priscilla wrote: >>> hey all, >>> I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. >>> but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on the >>> trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what really >>> annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and >>> stuff. >>> another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out >>> the >>> legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to >>> approve >>> it. >>> but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have >>> someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, >>> because >>> of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with >>> disabilities services. >>> I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. >>> what do you all think? >>> >>> Thank you very much. >>> I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need >>> deposits in as soon as possible. >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: >>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM >>> To: >>> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >>> >>>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >>>> 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >>>> 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) >>>> 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) >>>> 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) >>>> 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) >>>> 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) >>>> 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) >>>> 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) >>>> 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. >>>> Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) >>>> 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) >>>> 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >>>> 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >>>> 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >>>> 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >>>> 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) >>>> 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? >>>> (Haben Girma) >>>> 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) >>>> 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) >>>> 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 >>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Hi Jim, >>>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars >>>> for >>>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross >>>> the >>>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>>> being >>>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>>> you >>>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you saying >>>> you >>>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>>> risk >>>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>>> cannot >>>> hear. >>>> >>>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be noise >>>> on >>>> the car to hear it. >>>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I cannot >>>> be >>>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>>> >>>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>>> will >>>> fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on this. >>>> We >>>> are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, >>>> that >>>> silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jim Reed" >>>> To: "MAB List" >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>> might >>>> pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, >>>> there >>>> is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign >>>> oil, >>>> and enviromental damage. >>>> >>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>> support >>>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great >>>> leap >>>> in >>>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>>> it >>>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>>> impact >>>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>>> importiant >>>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>>> dependence >>>> of forign oil. >>>> >>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >>>> of >>>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >>>> you >>>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>> collapes. >>>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering >>>> it. >>>> >>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>> changing >>>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the era >>>> of >>>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>>> >>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>> societal >>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>> decline. >>>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>>> refuse to adapt. >>>> >>>> Well thats my two cents >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 >>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Jont, >>>> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >>>> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >>>> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it >>>> will >>>> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >>>> wear >>>> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears >>>> off >>>> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >>>> >>>> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >>>> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is >>>> still >>>> >>>> a >>>> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "jonte" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> >>>>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>>>> I >>>>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>>>> companies to accommodate us. >>>>> Jonte >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Robert Spangler >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>>>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>>>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>>>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>>>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>>>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>>>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something >>>>> that >>>>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>>>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Robby >>>>> >>>>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>>>> dependence >>>>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>>>> this >>>>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>>> development >>>>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially >>>>>> be >>>>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our >>>>>> economy >>>>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>>>> Detroit, >>>>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>>>> hindering it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>>>> in >>>>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>>>> methodologies? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>>> societal >>>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>>>> because >>>>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Robert Spangler >>>>> The University of Toledo >>>>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>>>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 3 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) >>>> From: Jim Reed >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment >>>> seminars >>>> To: NABS mail list >>>> Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>>> >>>> NABS board and officers, >>>> >>>> I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing job >>>> training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and >>>> successful employment counters stereotypes. >>>> >>>> I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value >>>> associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar >>>> that >>>> >>>> could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For >>>> example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know >>>> an >>>> >>>> answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, >>>> and >>>> >>>> I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all >>>> students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If >>>> they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will >>>> ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of >>>> older people, proffessionals, and strangers? >>>> >>>> Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills >>>> and >>>> >>>> knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some of >>>> us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have >>>> never >>>> >>>> looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the >>>> education/training needs to start at the most basic level. >>>> >>>> I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should >>>> host >>>> >>>> its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. >>>> >>>> ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention >>>> efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not >>>> compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is >>>> availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a >>>> NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type of >>>> project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. >>>> >>>> I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do >>>> so. >>>> >>>> Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading >>>> this >>>> on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; >>>> they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get enough >>>> phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, and >>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, and >>>> to the needs of their voters... >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ? >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 4 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 >>>> From: "priscilla" >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>>> the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>>> me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>> am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>> willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I >>>> will >>>> >>>> get moor information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>>> to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>> to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays >>>> for >>>> >>>> projects which I need help in. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 5 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 >>>> From: Elizabeth >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >>>> To: >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello List, >>>> >>>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, but >>>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list >>>> from >>>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not >>>> an >>>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>>> college student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>>> >>>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions within >>>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact person >>>> for anything related to the upcoming national convention including >>>> answering any questions you might have about what resources might be >>>> available in our state. >>>> >>>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning >>>> of >>>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes >>>> are >>>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>>> of >>>> >>>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>>> please feel free to contact me off list. >>>> >>>> Elizabeth >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 6 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 >>>> From: jonte >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane >>>> that would detect a hybrid car. >>>> I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not >>>> throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been >>>> developed that could save my life. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ashley Bramlett >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> Jont, >>>> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >>>> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >>>> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it >>>> will >>>> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >>>> wear >>>> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears >>>> off >>>> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. >>>> >>>> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >>>> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is >>>> still >>>> >>>> a >>>> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "jonte" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> >>>> >>>>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>>>> I >>>>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car >>>>> companies to accommodate us. >>>>> Jonte >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Robert Spangler >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. >>>>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>>>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that >>>>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>>>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>>>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>>>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something >>>>> that >>>>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>>>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Robby >>>>> >>>>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>>>> dependence >>>>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >>>>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>>>> this >>>>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >>>>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >>>>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >>>>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>>> development >>>>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially >>>>>> be >>>>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our >>>>>> economy >>>>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>>>> Detroit, >>>>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>>>> hindering it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps >>>>>> in >>>>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>>>> methodologies? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>>> societal >>>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>>>> because >>>>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Robert Spangler >>>>> The University of Toledo >>>>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>>>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 7 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 >>>> From: Mary Fernandez >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the >>>> trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two >>>> students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do >>>> it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go >>>> alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of >>>> them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely >>>> on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. >>>> This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to >>>> hiring a reader or something along those lines. >>>> So thinkabout it. >>>> Mary >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mary Fernandez >>>> Emory University 2012 >>>> P.O. Box 123056 >>>> Atlanta Ga. >>>> 30322 >>>> Phone: 732-857-7004 >>>> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >>>> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >>>> President Barack Obama >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 8 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 >>>> From: anna parker >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people >>>> who >>>> can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars because >>>> >>>> i >>>> do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough >>>> crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i >>>> strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be >>>> done >>>> now >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Jim, >>>>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars >>>>> for >>>>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross >>>>> the >>>>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>>>> being >>>>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>>>> you >>>>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you >>>>> saying >>>>> you >>>>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>>>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>>>> risk >>>>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>>>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>>>> cannot >>>>> hear. >>>>> >>>>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be >>>>> noise >>>>> on >>>>> the car to hear it. >>>>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I >>>>> cannot >>>>> be >>>>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>>>> >>>>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>>>> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >>>>> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on >>>>> this >>>>> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >>>>> To: "MAB List" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>>> hand, >>>>> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >>>>> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>> >>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>> support >>>>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great >>>>> leap >>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>>>> it >>>>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>>>> impact >>>>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>>>> importiant >>>>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>>>> dependence >>>>> of forign oil. >>>>> >>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>> development >>>>> of >>>>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>>>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>>>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>>>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >>>>> you >>>>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>> collapes. >>>>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>> changing >>>>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the >>>>> era >>>>> of >>>>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>>>> >>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>> societal >>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>> decline. >>>>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>>>> refuse to adapt. >>>>> >>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 9 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 >>>> From: anna parker >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> hey Elizabeth >>>> my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if >>>> youd >>>> like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this coming >>>> sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me >>>> Anna >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello List, >>>>> >>>>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, >>>>> but >>>>> I >>>>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list >>>>> from >>>>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not >>>>> an >>>>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>>>> college >>>>> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>>>> >>>>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions >>>>> within >>>>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact >>>>> person >>>>> for >>>>> anything related to the upcoming national convention including >>>>> answering >>>>> any >>>>> questions you might have about what resources might be available in our >>>>> state. >>>>> >>>>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>>>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning >>>>> of >>>>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes >>>>> are >>>>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>>>> of >>>>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>>>> please >>>>> feel free to contact me off list. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>>>> >>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 10 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 >>>> From: "Tai Blas" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >>>> seminar. Who wants to help? >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the >>>> convention. >>>> He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS use >>>> his >>>> equipment. contact him at the national center. >>>> Tai Blas >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Arielle Silverman >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >>>> seminar. >>>> Who wants to help? >>>> >>>> Hi again, >>>> >>>> Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this >>>> thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career >>>> seminar. (It's been a long week!) >>>> >>>> Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need >>>> to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention >>>> general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, >>>> who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the >>>> right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. >>>> >>>> Arielle >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>> Hi Jim and all, >>>>> >>>>> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >>>>> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >>>>> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >>>>> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >>>>> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >>>>> the year. >>>>> >>>>> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >>>>> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >>>>> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >>>>> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>> First Vice-President, NABS >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>>>>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound >>>>>> board. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>>>>> career >>>>>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>>>>> vollenter >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>>>>> tomarrow), >>>>>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>>>>> ball >>>>>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of the >>>>>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in >>>>>>> digest >>>>>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>>>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>>>>> equipment? >>>>>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>>>>> funda >>>>>>> avaliable? >>>>>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> find out where. >>>>>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and >>>>>>> drop-off >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> gear. >>>>>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> willing to allow us >>>>>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>>>>> recording/production as a project. >>>>>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>>>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>>>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>>>>> P.A. >>>>>>> system that >>>>>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>>>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> willing to take >>>>>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording >>>>>>> duties? >>>>>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>>>>> boards >>>>>>> or what >>>>>>> not. >>>>>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>>>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>>>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we can >>>>>>> plan >>>>>>> accordingly. >>>>>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V >>>>>>> material >>>>>>> along with the video. >>>>>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> upoaded. >>>>>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, and >>>>>>> dated) permission from >>>>>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and >>>>>>> materials >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the web. I know >>>>>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont >>>>>>> take >>>>>>> further action until I >>>>>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, >>>>>>> "trust, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> verify." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co >>>> m >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 11 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 >>>> From: "Jason Mandarino" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the option >>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>> to >>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>> legal >>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the education >>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>> blast. >>>> >>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be a >>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>> your >>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>> responsibility. >>>> >>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>> services >>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>> running >>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>> can >>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>> >>>> Just some ideas. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Mandarino >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of priscilla >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> Dear all listers, >>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>> of >>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>> with >>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>> and >>>> Brussels. >>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>> me >>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>> with >>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>> never happened. >>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>> mentioned >>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>> to >>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of >>>> the >>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>> to >>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>> was >>>> pretty sad. >>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>> and >>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>> because >>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help >>>> me >>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>> because >>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't >>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>> mom >>>> as a last resort. >>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>> to >>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>> work >>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>> because >>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>> to >>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get moor >>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>> times >>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>> used >>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>> being with me all the time. >>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>> but >>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>> support. >>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>> they >>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>> up >>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much >>>> >>>> Good day, >>>> >>>> Priscilla >>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how >>>> to >>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited to >>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>> tutoring >>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>> projects >>>> which I need help in. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>> mail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 12 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 >>>> From: Beth >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>> not that. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 13 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 >>>> From: "Serena" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>> My >>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>> I >>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>> nobody >>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being blind >>>> or, >>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>> younger >>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving him >>>> >>>> a >>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>> know >>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>> international, >>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>>> to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>> legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>> my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>> for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>> with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>> it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>> not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>>> to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>> and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>> help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>> am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>> work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>> moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>> her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>> the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 14 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 >>>> From: Beth >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>>> My >>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>>> I >>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>> nobody >>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>> blind >>>>> or, >>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>> younger >>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>> him >>>>> a >>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>>> know >>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>> international, >>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>> not that. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>> option >>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>> study >>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>>> legal >>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>> education >>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>> services >>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>> running >>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>> studying >>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>> explained >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>>> am. >>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> mom >>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>> school >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>> willing >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>>> moor >>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>> support. >>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>> signing >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>> projects >>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 15 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 >>>> From: "Serena" >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any >>>> differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>>> went >>>> with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone >>>> else >>>> to >>>> go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted >>>> classmates >>>> would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends or >>>> acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >>>> >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Beth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> >>>> >>>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>>> that >>>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>>>> My >>>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>>>> I >>>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>>> nobody >>>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>>> blind >>>>>> or, >>>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>>> younger >>>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>>> him >>>>>> a >>>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>>>> know >>>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>>> international, >>>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>>> not that. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>>> study >>>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>>> under >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>>> explained >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>>> situation >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>>>> am. >>>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> mom >>>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>>>> moor >>>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>>> signing >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>>> excited >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 16 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 >>>> From: Domonique Lawless >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5 at mail.gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what >>>> accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done >>>> to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right >>>> direction I would greatly appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Domonique Lawless >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 17 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 >>>> From: Haben Girma >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405 at aol.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Mark, >>>> >>>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >>>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >>>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >>>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>>> >>>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>>> most >>>>> of >>>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>>> persons >>>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>>> disability >>>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>>> particular >>>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>>> is >>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> me. >>>>> >>>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>>> think >>>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>>> are >>>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>>> up >>>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>>>> >>>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>>> Canada's >>>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time I >>>>> say >>>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>>> disability. >>>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>>> only >>>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>>> there >>>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>>> this >>>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>>> that >>>>> the >>>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>>> Far >>>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>>> be >>>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>>> special >>>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, and >>>>> it >>>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>>> disability >>>>> differently. >>>>> >>>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>>> disability, >>>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>>> anyway >>>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, and >>>>> for >>>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>>> think >>>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Marc >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>>>> >>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>>> guilty >>>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >>>>>> >>>>> this >>>>> >>>>>> topic. >>>>>> >>>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>>> What >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> >>>>> is >>>>> >>>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>>>> factors. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>>> seem >>>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>>> blindness. >>>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>>> if >>>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>>>> >>>>> short, >>>>> >>>>>> society itself, were different. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>>> time >>>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>>>> >>>>> Canadians. >>>>> >>>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>>> challenges >>>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>> a >>>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>>> where >>>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>>>> >>>>> viewed >>>>> >>>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>> be >>>>> >>>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>>>> >>>>> training >>>>> >>>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>>>> >>>>> experiments >>>>> >>>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>>> blind? >>>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>>>>> >>>>> we'll >>>>> >>>>>> never really know for sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>>>> >>>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability is >>>>>> not >>>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>> you >>>>> >>>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>>> more >>>>>> >>>>> than >>>>> >>>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>>> possess >>>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to possess >>>>>> the >>>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>>> cases, >>>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>>> result >>>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>>> Here's >>>>>> hoping anyways. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc, >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>>> about >>>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>>> with >>>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> >>>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>>> pickup >>>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number >>>>>> of >>>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>>> literary >>>>>> works in Braille. >>>>>> >>>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> >>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>>>>> >>>>> which, >>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>>>>>> >>>>> some >>>>> >>>>>>> of you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>>> codified >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>>> trait >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>>> meaningless >>>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>>> contexts, >>>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>>> imposed >>>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>>>>> >>>>> building. >>>>> >>>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>>> respect >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>>> elevators >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>>> openers, >>>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>>>>>> >>>>> make >>>>> >>>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my blindness. >>>>>>> My >>>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>>> had >>>>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> I read his work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>>> that's >>>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>>>>> >>>>> disability. >>>>> >>>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>>> law >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>>> available, >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>>> put >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>>> quotation >>>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to support >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> position I've outlined. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>>> physical >>>>>>> nuisance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>>> eye >>>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>>> lack >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>>> nuisance >>>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> question? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>>> students, >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>>>>> >>>>> major >>>>> >>>>>>> life function, sight. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>>>>> >>>>> blind >>>>> >>>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>>> attitude, >>>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> >>>>>>> ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> >>>>>> ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 18 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 >>>> From: "Wilson, Joanne" (by way of David Andrews >>>> ) >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program >>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>>> Message-ID: >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" >>>> >>>> >>>> Free White Cane Message >>>> >>>> If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane >>>> Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach >>>> materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about >>>> getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if >>>> you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to >>>> say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, >>>> self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a >>>> paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White >>>> Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to >>>> jwilson at nfb.org. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Joanne Wilson >>>> Affiliate Action Executive Director >>>> 410-659-9314 extension 2335 >>>> jwilson at nfb.org >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>> Name: Free White Cane Message.doc >>>> Type: application/msword >>>> Size: 30208 bytes >>>> Desc: not available >>>> URL: >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 19 >>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 >>>> From: Haben Girma >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305 at aol.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> >>>> Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>>> generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>>> case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, >>>> have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are usually >>>> taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in >>>> the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >>>> and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >>>> sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just the >>>> tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more willing >>>> to help. >>>> >>>> Haben >>>> >>>> Serena wrote: >>>>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>>>> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>>>> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>>>> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >>>>> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>>>> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>>>>> however, >>>>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>>>>> acquaintances. My >>>>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>>>>> Adventure. I >>>>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>>>> nobody >>>>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>>>> blind or, >>>>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>>>> younger >>>>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>>>> him a >>>>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>>>>> I know >>>>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>>>> international, >>>>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>>>> not that. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>>>> study >>>>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>>>>> them, so to >>>>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>>>>> a legal >>>>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>>>>> will be a >>>>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>>>> under >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>>>>> all my >>>>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>>>>> concerns for >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>>>>> travel with >>>>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>>>> because of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>>>>> does not >>>>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>>>> explained to >>>>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>>>> situation and >>>>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>>>>> to help >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>>>>> I am. >>>>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>>>>> depend on >>>>>>>>> mom >>>>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>>>>> from work >>>>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>>>>> get moor >>>>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>>>>> to her >>>>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>>>>> deposit the >>>>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>>>> signing >>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>>>>> learn how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>>>> excited to >>>>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 20 >>>> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 >>>> From: Jedi >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541 at web2.serotek.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" >>>> >>>> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >>>> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >>>> Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." >>>> we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a >>>> lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases >>>> that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >>>> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would >>>> argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >>>> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >>>> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also >>>> argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the >>>> stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is >>>> something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote >>>> an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting >>>> article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people >>>> qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they >>>> will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are >>>> dead wrong. >>>> Original message: >>>> >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>> >>>>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >>>>> persons" >>>>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>>>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>>>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>>>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>>>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >>>>> would >>>>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>>>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>>>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>>>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>>>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>>>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>>>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>>>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>>>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>>>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>>>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>>>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>>>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>>>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>>>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >>>>> "persons >>>>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>>>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>>>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>>>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>>>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>>>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>>>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>>>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>>>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>>> >>>>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>>>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>>>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>>>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>>>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>>> >>>>> Haben >>>> >>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>>>> most >>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>>>> persons >>>>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>>>> disability >>>>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>>>> particular >>>>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>>>> is in >>>>>> me. >>>> >>>>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>>>> think >>>>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>>>> are >>>>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>>>> up >>>>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>>> >>>>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>>>> Canada's >>>>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >>>>>> can't >>>>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time >>>>>> I >>>>>> say >>>>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>>>> disability. >>>>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>>>> only >>>>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>>>> there >>>>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >>>>>> When >>>>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>>>> this >>>>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>>>> that >>>>>> >>>>>> the >>>>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>>>> Far >>>>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>>>> be >>>>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>>>> special >>>>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >>>>>> the >>>>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>>>>> and >>>>>> it >>>>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>>>> disability >>>>>> differently. >>>> >>>>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>>>> disability, >>>>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>>>> anyway >>>>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>>>>> and >>>>>> for >>>>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>>>> think >>>>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >>>>>> so >>>>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>>> >>>>>> Haben >>>> >>>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>> >>>>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>>>> guilty >>>>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >>>>>>> with >>>> >>>>>> this >>>> >>>>>>> topic. >>>> >>>>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>>>> What I >>>>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>>>> blindness >>>> >>>>>> is >>>> >>>>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >>>>>>> social >>>>>>> factors. >>>> >>>>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>>>> seem >>>> >>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>> >>>>>> short, >>>> >>>>>>> society itself, were different. >>>> >>>>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>>>> time >>>> >>>>>> and >>>> >>>>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>> >>>>>> Canadians. >>>> >>>>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>>>> challenges >>>>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>>>> in a >>>>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>> >>>>>> viewed >>>> >>>>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>>>> to >>>> >>>>>> be >>>> >>>>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>> >>>>>> training >>>> >>>>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>> >>>>>> experiments >>>> >>>>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>>>> blind? >>>> >>>>>> I >>>> >>>>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>>> >>>>>> we'll >>>> >>>>>>> never really know for sure. >>>> >>>>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>> >>>>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>>>> but >>>> >>>>>> you >>>> >>>>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>>>> more >>>> >>>>>> than >>>> >>>>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>>>> possess >>>>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >>>>>>> significant >>>>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>>>> skin >>>>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>>>>> possess >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>>>> cases, >>>>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>>>> result >>>> >>>>>> in >>>> >>>>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>>>> Here's >>>>>>> hoping anyways. >>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>> >>>>>>> Marc >>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Marc, >>>> >>>>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>>>> physical >>>>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >>>>>>> out. >>>> >>>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>> >>>>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>>>> pickup >>>>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>>>>> number >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>>>> literary >>>>>>> works in Braille. >>>> >>>>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> >>>>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>> >>>>>> which, >>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >>>>>>>> persuade >>>> >>>>>> some >>>> >>>>>>>> of you. >>>> >>>>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >>>>>>>> distinction >>>>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>>>> codified >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>> >>>>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>>>> trait >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>>>> meaningless >>>>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>>>> contexts, >>>>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>>>> imposed >>>>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>> >>>>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>> >>>>>> building. >>>> >>>>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >>>>>>>> fifteen >>>>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>>>> respect >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>>>> elevators >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>>>> openers, >>>>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>> >>>>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >>>>>>>> that >>>> >>>>>> make >>>> >>>>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>>>> had >>>> >>>>>> in >>>> >>>>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> I read his work. >>>> >>>>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>> >>>>>> disability. >>>> >>>>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>>>> available, >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>> >>>>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>>>> quotation >>>>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> position I've outlined. >>>> >>>>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>> nuisance. >>>> >>>>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>>>> eye >>>>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>>>> lack >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>>>> nuisance >>>>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>> >>>>>>>> Marc >>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>>> question? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>> >>>>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>>>> students, >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>> >>>>>> major >>>> >>>>>>>> life function, sight. >>>> >>>>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>> >>>>>> blind >>>> >>>>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>> >>>>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>>>> attitude, >>>>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>> >>>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> >>>>>>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> >>>>>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>>> ca >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> REspectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> >>>> >>>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >>>> ************************************** >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jekis at fastmail.us Mon Apr 27 02:14:42 2009 From: jekis at fastmail.us (Justin Ekis) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:14:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox In-Reply-To: <258B1913E8A24AB7BB87F2F453E461FD@Rufus> References: <258B1913E8A24AB7BB87F2F453E461FD@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe, I occasionally have the same problem with alt-tab in firefox. I don't have any proof, but the newer firefox betas seem to do slightly better with this. As for closing a tab, control-f4 will do the job, as will control-w. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "NFB-Web" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 5:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox > Hello all, > > I've reluctantly switched to Firefox as my default browser, mostly because > it works better with my work assignments. It seems to work well so far, > but > two questions for my Firefox experts: > > 1. When I alt tab out of, and back into, the Firefox browser my cursor > position is lost. The cursor jumps back to the top of the page. How can > I > remedy this? > > 2. How do I close a single tab in the browser? I'm referring to the > equivalent of Control F4 that is true of other tab-oriented software. > > Thank you in advance for your assistance, and, WebVisum has not been > solving > my CAPTCHAS as diligently as I was hoping. Are there other related > add-ons > that would make navigation with JAWS 10 easier? > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4035 (20090425) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jekis%40fastmail.us > From fowlers at syix.com Mon Apr 27 02:20:56 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:20:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys talking about? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. We were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. Anybody remember that? Beth On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying > very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient > outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this > case, sharing isn't caring. > > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From fowlers at syix.com Mon Apr 27 02:22:09 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 19:22:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Abroad In-Reply-To: <54f02f10904261721o3d779294ja4a9571abc1da8bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <54f02f10904261721o3d779294ja4a9571abc1da8bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: The ADA specifically states that accommodations shall not be forced on people. I can find the passage if you want, I studied it for a paper last semester. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christina Mitchell Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 5:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Abroad -- Christina I'll say that this whole thing is stupid. They should just let Priscilla go alone and enjoy herself because this is a good experience for her. If necessary she could use the students in the trip for assistance. I'm sure that if they see that she needs assistance in going from place to place, I'm pretty sure they would turn around and lend her a hand. They're not going to just leave her stranded like that. Even if she takes her mother or a friend, something could still happen. Nobody can always prevent an accident. I don't understand the school's point here. Like someone has said, this is discrimination and it's an issue that should be dealt with. People get sued almost every day for liability issues so I don't see why this is any different. And even if Priscilla takes a year off and goes to the nfb's training centers for training, this liability issue would still be in the way. What if she gets a job somewhere and she has to go to an unfamiliar place to complete her job? What would the boss say, that she has to bring somebody with her to the work place? I certainly hope not. Just my 2 sense here. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 02:52:11 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:52:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904261952g3b267887u69ee83253649fa20@mail.gmail.com> We're talking about the recent sswine flu epidemic and how it may relate to the convention because lots of people are coming, and the flu has pread to New York City. It could come to the heartland of America, and then to Detroit where the convention is, if we're not careful. If it had been the 1918 Spanish influenza epidemic, things could have been a lot worse. Also, I asked the queston of the not-so-recent Avian flu epidemic. I remember a time when everybody was all up in arms about the bird flu and people getting that thing. I read an entire article about it and I don't remember where it was. Beth On 4/26/09, Angela fowler wrote: > At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys talking > about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. We > were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. Anybody > remember that? > Beth > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >> case, sharing isn't caring. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 02:54:35 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:54:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Studying Abroad In-Reply-To: <54f02f10904261721o3d779294ja4a9571abc1da8bf@mail.gmail.com> References: <54f02f10904261721o3d779294ja4a9571abc1da8bf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904261954pe6245b1gcb715ee73e8b5ad3@mail.gmail.com> Good points. I certainly hope that nobody gives me a hard time when I have to take a bunch of teenagers in a chorus somewhere, like to Europe or D.C. or somethng. I've been on band trips, but a parent was involved because I was a minor at the time. So being in charge of a bunch of kids should sound more fun. Beth On 4/26/09, Christina Mitchell wrote: > -- > Christina > I'll say that this whole thing is stupid. They should just let > Priscilla go alone and enjoy herself because this is a good > experience for her. If necessary she could use the students in the > trip for assistance. I'm sure that if they see that she needs > assistance in going from place to place, I'm pretty sure they would > turn around and lend her a hand. They're not going to just leave her > stranded like that. Even if she takes her mother or a friend, > something could still happen. Nobody can always prevent an accident. > I don't understand the school's point here. Like someone has said, > this is discrimination and it's an issue that should be dealt with. > People get sued almost every day for liability issues so I don't see > why this is any different. And even if Priscilla takes a year off and > goes to the nfb's training centers for training, this liability issue > would still be in the way. What if she gets a job somewhere and she > has to go to an unfamiliar place to complete her job? What would the > boss say, that she has to bring somebody with her to the work place? > I certainly hope not. Just my 2 sense here. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 03:33:49 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:33:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904261858ma549fd5r50ac6116283c9d33@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0904251635n4d6c072bueb30728e7f89724b@mail.gmail.com> <5084DBA017C646D7A7A43E3FD9824EB7@Ashley> <4383d01d0904261858ma549fd5r50ac6116283c9d33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <423e6e460904262033n7eb0592v674040caa37111bf@mail.gmail.com> Hi Priscilla, What your school is trying to impose on you is illegal. I can understand working out a buddy system with people who are going on the trip with you but that is a reasonable precaution for anyone. what state are you from by the way, and if you feel comfortable mentioning it, what school is it that has this "liability policy." Domonique On 4/26/09, Beth wrote: > Oh. > Well, then, I'd raise hell about it for lack of a better way to put it > That's wht the NFB and good lawyers and a good lasuit can do. And > I'd raise the amount of money in the lawsuit so that it would be > higher than it would be if you got hurt suddenly and felt the schoo > responsible for your being hurt or something. People sue though for > ridiculous reasons such as a woman who sued McDonald's for her injury > that resulted in spilling coffee on herself. Even thatisn't a wrthy > case. > Beth > > On 4/26/09, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Beth, >> Read the message carefully. She has to >> deal with liability because of the compliance office. >> This is being imposed on her. I think this is discrimination. Beth, she >> cannot just go on the trip due to the rules she is under. They are >> requiring her to be assisted. I think this is way wrong. >> Just because she is blind does not make her more of a liability. >> >> Its nice FSU is not like that raising irrational concerns about liability. >> Such concerns are based on the false notion that the blind cannot travel >> safely and are more of a safety hazard than other travelers. >> Sadly these problems about liability are still around in 2009. >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 7:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] traveling abroad advice >> >> >>>I think you should just go. Why bother with compliance and stuff? >>> Why bother with liability? FSU would be very happy to let me go to >>> London to studyabroad. I don't think I would haveany troble. >>> Everybod here is really adamant that I be as independent as possible. >>> But just for kicks, I'd bring a friend because I am a woman, and I >>> don't want toget raped and possibly haveto go through the laws that >>> the country has regarding rape. The good new is you're not going to >>> Saudi Arabia, where a blind woman was put in jail for premarital sex >>> since she couldn't identify her rapist. Sad. >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/25/09, priscilla wrote: >>>> hey all, >>>> I agree with the point of not bringing my mother on this trip to the EU. >>>> but, its not because I desired it or because I wanted to bring her on >>>> the >>>> trip because I want to act like a total dependent person, but what >>>> really >>>> annoys me is that my school puts on the policy issues of liability and >>>> stuff. >>>> another thing is that the dean called the compliance office to work out >>>> the >>>> legal plan for my mom to go but it seems like they are not going to >>>> approve >>>> it. >>>> but I am trying to fight for this, but the school requires me to have >>>> someone on the trip regardless if you are very independent or not, >>>> because >>>> of the stupid rules imposed by the compliance office on people with >>>> disabilities services. >>>> I think that my school should easy up here and be more flexible. >>>> what do you all think? >>>> >>>> Thank you very much. >>>> I rely need help concerning this since time is running out and I need >>>> deposits in as soon as possible. >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:00 PM >>>> To: >>>> Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >>>> >>>>> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >>>>> 2. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (Ashley Bramlett) >>>>> 3. Why the NABS should pursue its own employment seminars (Jim Reed) >>>>> 4. studying abroad advise (priscilla) >>>>> 5. From A Student In Michigan (Elizabeth) >>>>> 6. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (jonte) >>>>> 7. Re: studying abroad advise (Mary Fernandez) >>>>> 8. Re: Pedestrian safety improvement act (anna parker) >>>>> 9. Re: From A Student In Michigan (anna parker) >>>>> 10. Re: Webcasting the NFB national convention career seminar. >>>>> Who wants to help? (Tai Blas) >>>>> 11. Re: studying abroad advise (Jason Mandarino) >>>>> 12. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >>>>> 13. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >>>>> 14. Re: studying abroad advise (Beth) >>>>> 15. Re: studying abroad advise (Serena) >>>>> 16. GRE Material (Domonique Lawless) >>>>> 17. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? >>>>> (Haben Girma) >>>>> 18. White Cane Program (Wilson, Joanne) >>>>> 19. Re: studying abroad advise (Haben Girma) >>>>> 20. Re: "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? (Jedi) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 13:59:44 -0400 >>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <97844DEBCC9F43FFBEE8FA3C98F28994 at Ashley> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>>> reply-type=original >>>>> >>>>> Hi Jim, >>>>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars >>>>> for >>>>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross >>>>> the >>>>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>>>> being >>>>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. Perhaps >>>>> you >>>>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you >>>>> saying >>>>> you >>>>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>>>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>>>> risk >>>>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>>>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>>>> cannot >>>>> hear. >>>>> >>>>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be >>>>> noise >>>>> on >>>>> the car to hear it. >>>>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I >>>>> cannot >>>>> be >>>>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>>>> >>>>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and others >>>>> will >>>>> fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working on >>>>> this. >>>>> We >>>>> are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on this one, >>>>> that >>>>> silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jim Reed" >>>>> To: "MAB List" >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>> might >>>>> pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other hand, >>>>> there >>>>> is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on forign >>>>> oil, >>>>> and enviromental damage. >>>>> >>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>> support >>>>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great >>>>> leap >>>>> in >>>>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this development, >>>>> it >>>>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>>>> impact >>>>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>>>> importiant >>>>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>>>> dependence >>>>> of forign oil. >>>>> >>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>> development >>>>> of >>>>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be the >>>>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they could >>>>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>>>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >>>>> you >>>>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>> collapes. >>>>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>> changing >>>>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the >>>>> era >>>>> of >>>>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>>>> >>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>> societal >>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>> decline. >>>>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I (we) >>>>> refuse to adapt. >>>>> >>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:07:38 -0400 >>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>>> reply-type=original >>>>> >>>>> Jont, >>>>> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >>>>> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >>>>> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it >>>>> will >>>>> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >>>>> wear >>>>> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears >>>>> off >>>>> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they >>>>> are. >>>>> >>>>> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >>>>> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is >>>>> still >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "jonte" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>>>>> I >>>>>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the >>>>>> car >>>>>> companies to accommodate us. >>>>>> Jonte >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Robert Spangler >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>>> >>>>>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the >>>>>> legislation. >>>>>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>>>>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states >>>>>> that >>>>>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>>>>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>>>>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>>>>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something >>>>>> that >>>>>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>>>>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Robby >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet >>>>>>> cars >>>>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>>>>> dependence >>>>>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the >>>>>>> next >>>>>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid >>>>>>> car. >>>>>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, >>>>>>> national >>>>>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>>>> development >>>>>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our >>>>>>> economy >>>>>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>>>>> Detroit, >>>>>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>>>>> hindering it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>>>>> methodologies? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>>>> societal >>>>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Robert Spangler >>>>>> The University of Toledo >>>>>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>>>>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 3 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 12:39:52 -0700 (PDT) >>>>> From: Jim Reed >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Why the NABS should pursue its own employment >>>>> seminars >>>>> To: NABS mail list >>>>> Message-ID: <720742.14610.qm at web65708.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> NABS board and officers, >>>>> >>>>> I strongly urge the NABS to pursue its own efforts towards providing >>>>> job >>>>> training/readyness. Meaningful employment counters dependence, and >>>>> successful employment counters stereotypes. >>>>> >>>>> I think that for students, there would be an inherent advantage value >>>>> associated with attending a seperate NABS produced employment seminar >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> could possibly not be realized at the national convention level. For >>>>> example, I've never been the shy, quiet type. in class, if I don't know >>>>> an >>>>> >>>>> answer, I will ask the question, regardless of how stupid I may sound, >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> I wont give a damn what anyone thinks. But, on the other hand, not all >>>>> students are like me; many wont ask a question to save their life. If >>>>> they wont ask a question in a classroom, what are the chances they will >>>>> ask a question in a crowded national convention seminar that is full of >>>>> older people, proffessionals, and strangers? >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, as students, we may not be up to par with the job skills >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> knowledge of an older, proffessional crowd. Maybe, for example,? some >>>>> of >>>>> us (like me) may just be begining to accept our blindness, thus have >>>>> never >>>>> >>>>> looked for a job as a blind person before, and as a result, the >>>>> education/training needs to start at the most basic level. >>>>> >>>>> I could list many more reasons and examples as to why the NABS should >>>>> host >>>>> >>>>> its own job training workshops, but I think I've made my point. >>>>> >>>>> ?I'm not suggesting that we compete with the national convention >>>>> efforts,we could do it anytime between September and March, and not >>>>> compete directly with the convention. And, with the technology that is >>>>> availiable, these efforts could be entirely web based, or if there is a >>>>> NABS convention, that would be a good time to. I bet this is the type >>>>> of >>>>> project the Imagination Fund would jump all over. >>>>> >>>>> I do think this idea is worth pursuing, and I intend to continue to do >>>>> so. >>>>> >>>>> Please concider supporting this proposal. Also, for everyone reading >>>>> this >>>>> on the list, make sure you let our leaders know what you want and need; >>>>> they are not mind readers. If the NABS board and its officers get >>>>> enough >>>>> phone calls and emails in favor of an idea, they will hear the call, >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>> have faith that they will respond to the needs of their consituants, >>>>> and >>>>> to the needs of their voters... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:34:14 -0400 >>>>> From: "priscilla" >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>>> social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>> am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>> willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I >>>>> will >>>>> >>>>> get moor information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>>> up >>>>> >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>> excited >>>>> to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>> projects which I need help in. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 5 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:44:34 -0400 >>>>> From: Elizabeth >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >>>>> To: >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello List, >>>>> >>>>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, >>>>> but >>>>> >>>>> I >>>>> >>>>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list >>>>> from >>>>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not >>>>> an >>>>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>>>> college student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>>>> >>>>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions >>>>> within >>>>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact >>>>> person >>>>> for anything related to the upcoming national convention including >>>>> answering any questions you might have about what resources might be >>>>> available in our state. >>>>> >>>>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due to >>>>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning >>>>> of >>>>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes >>>>> are >>>>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can be >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>>>> please feel free to contact me off list. >>>>> >>>>> Elizabeth >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 6 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:49:18 -0500 >>>>> From: jonte >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <49f2332e.07045a0a.0581.ffff8a04 at mx.google.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane >>>>> that would detect a hybrid car. >>>>> I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not >>>>> throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been >>>>> developed that could save my life. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ashley Bramlett >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> Jont, >>>>> I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to >>>>> detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane >>>>> heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it >>>>> will >>>>> drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes >>>>> wear >>>>> out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears >>>>> off >>>>> and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they >>>>> are. >>>>> >>>>> Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. >>>>> Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is >>>>> still >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. >>>>> >>>>> Ashley >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "jonte" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? >>>>>> I >>>>>> think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the >>>>>> car >>>>>> companies to accommodate us. >>>>>> Jonte >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Robert Spangler >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>>> >>>>>> I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the >>>>>> legislation. >>>>>> It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid >>>>>> cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states >>>>>> that >>>>>> the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be >>>>>> done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car >>>>>> that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. >>>>>> And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something >>>>>> that >>>>>> is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted >>>>>> people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Robby >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim Reed wrote: >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet >>>>>>> cars >>>>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, >>>>>>> dependence >>>>>>> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>>>> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the >>>>>>> next >>>>>>> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid >>>>>>> car. >>>>>>> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, >>>>>>> national >>>>>>> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>>>> development >>>>>>> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>>>> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our >>>>>>> economy >>>>>>> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in >>>>>>> Detroit, >>>>>>> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>>>> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >>>>>>> hindering it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>>>> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. >>>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >>>>>>> methodologies? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>>>> societal >>>>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>>>> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I (we) refuse to adapt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Robert Spangler >>>>>> The University of Toledo >>>>>> Student Senate - Recording Secretary >>>>>> Ohio Association of Blind Students - President >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 7 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:59:23 -0400 >>>>> From: Mary Fernandez >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> Hi Priscilla. How about hiring a student that is already going on the >>>>> trip? I am going to Paris this summer, and the school is hiring two >>>>> students, who are in the program, and who want to work with me, to do >>>>> it. Basically, if I need to go shopping, and really don't want to go >>>>> alone, I can just arrange something with them to accompany me. One of >>>>> them is my friend, but again, this is not a matter where you can rely >>>>> on friends. Studying abroad is expensive, and hard not just for us. >>>>> This is also quite a reasonable accomodation, since it's comparable to >>>>> hiring a reader or something along those lines. >>>>> So thinkabout it. >>>>> Mary >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, priscilla wrote: >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>> for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>> with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>> it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>> not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>>> to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>> and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>> help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>> am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>> work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>> moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>> her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>> the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Mary Fernandez >>>>> Emory University 2012 >>>>> P.O. Box 123056 >>>>> Atlanta Ga. >>>>> 30322 >>>>> Phone: 732-857-7004 >>>>> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >>>>> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >>>>> President Barack Obama >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 8 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:13:05 -0500 >>>>> From: anna parker >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> i totally agree with what your saying, i am one of those blind people >>>>> who >>>>> can also drive but id like to see some kind of noise in the cars >>>>> because >>>>> >>>>> i >>>>> do tavel with out a car a lot of the time and it can be scary enough >>>>> crossing busy streets with out the fear of not hearing the cars.. so i >>>>> strongly believe something needs to be done and something needs to be >>>>> done >>>>> now >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Ashley Bramlett >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Jim, >>>>>> I am shocked you would not support legislation. We need to hear cars >>>>>> for >>>>>> our safety and independence. Blind people use auditory cues to cross >>>>>> the >>>>>> street. There is simply no way around it. I would not want to fear >>>>>> being >>>>>> hit because I cannot hear half the cars as I cross the street. >>>>>> Perhaps >>>>>> you >>>>>> don't care because you have enough vision to drive. I recall you >>>>>> saying >>>>>> you >>>>>> comtemplated driving in a job because you wanted it so desperately. >>>>>> You will put your safety at risk. Sorry, I will not. There is enough >>>>>> risk >>>>>> in crossing because we are pedestrians and the environment favors >>>>>> automobiles. Let's not make it more dangerous by having many cars we >>>>>> cannot >>>>>> hear. >>>>>> >>>>>> we are not against the hybrid we are only saying there needs to be >>>>>> noise >>>>>> on >>>>>> the car to hear it. >>>>>> I care about the environment, but I also care about my safety. I >>>>>> cannot >>>>>> be >>>>>> independent if I am dead from a car crash. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can have your own opinion but the national NFB, ACB, AFB and >>>>>> others >>>>>> will fight for this bill so you are outnumbered. Yes ACB is working >>>>>> on >>>>>> this. We are not working together with ACB but we actually agree on >>>>>> this >>>>>> one, that silent cars are a safety hazard to the blind. >>>>>> Ashley >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Reed" >>>>>> To: "MAB List" >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 6:08 PM >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >>>>>> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >>>>>> hand, >>>>>> there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence on >>>>>> forign oil, and enviromental damage. >>>>>> >>>>>> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >>>>>> support >>>>>> or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next great >>>>>> leap >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >>>>>> development, >>>>>> it >>>>>> may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. Remember, the >>>>>> impact >>>>>> of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there are much more >>>>>> importiant >>>>>> nation issues at stake. For example, national security risk via a >>>>>> dependence >>>>>> of forign oil. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and >>>>>> development >>>>>> of >>>>>> hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >>>>>> the >>>>>> savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >>>>>> could >>>>>> jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy and >>>>>> individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >>>>>> you >>>>>> will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >>>>>> collapes. >>>>>> Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not hindering >>>>>> it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >>>>>> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >>>>>> changing >>>>>> world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in the >>>>>> era >>>>>> of >>>>>> silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel methodologies? >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of >>>>>> societal >>>>>> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >>>>>> decline. >>>>>> I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because I >>>>>> (we) >>>>>> refuse to adapt. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well thats my two cents >>>>>> Jim >>>>>> >>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 9 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:29:55 -0500 >>>>> From: anna parker >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] From A Student In Michigan >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> hey Elizabeth >>>>> my name is anna parker, im from mi, im on the student boared if >>>>> youd >>>>> like to get back involled let me know, were having a meeting this >>>>> coming >>>>> sunday.. we would love to have you. get back to me >>>>> Anna >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Elizabeth >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello List, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not been keeping up to date with all of the post on the list, >>>>>> but >>>>>> I >>>>>> noticed one post asking if there were any blind students on the list >>>>>> from >>>>>> Michigan. I just wanted to let everyone know that even though I am not >>>>>> an >>>>>> active member of the student devision in Michigan, that I am a blind >>>>>> college >>>>>> student who resides in the state of Michigan. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not live near Detroit nor do I hold any leadership positions >>>>>> within >>>>>> our state affiliate, but I would be willing to serve as a contact >>>>>> person >>>>>> for >>>>>> anything related to the upcoming national convention including >>>>>> answering >>>>>> any >>>>>> questions you might have about what resources might be available in >>>>>> our >>>>>> state. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not been activally involved in convention planning so far due >>>>>> to >>>>>> unresolved health issues that I have been battling since the beginning >>>>>> of >>>>>> the semester on top of a hectic class schedule. However, once classes >>>>>> are >>>>>> over, I plan to devote more time to convention planning, so if I can >>>>>> be >>>>>> of >>>>>> any help to anyone as a representative from the state of Michigan, >>>>>> please >>>>>> feel free to contact me off list. >>>>>> >>>>>> Elizabeth >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry >>>>>> >>>>>> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anna.parker.11%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 10 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 17:45:50 -0500 >>>>> From: "Tai Blas" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >>>>> seminar. Who wants to help? >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <000001c9c52e$6bada780$4308f680$@com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> Mr. Will Schwatka usually takes care of recording needs for the >>>>> convention. >>>>> He has recorded NABS events in the past and may be able to let NABS >>>>> use >>>>> his >>>>> equipment. contact him at the national center. >>>>> Tai Blas >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Arielle Silverman >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:50 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Webcasting the NFB national convention career >>>>> seminar. >>>>> Who wants to help? >>>>> >>>>> Hi again, >>>>> >>>>> Sorry about the last message--I had slightly misinterpreted this >>>>> thread and thought we were talking about hosting our own career >>>>> seminar. (It's been a long week!) >>>>> >>>>> Before we spend any money or make any webcasting arrangements, we need >>>>> to talk to the people in charge of streaming the national convention >>>>> general sessions. I am not sure who that would be but Mrs. Jernigan, >>>>> who is in charge of all convention arrangements, can point us in the >>>>> right direction, and she should be made aware of these plans. >>>>> >>>>> Arielle >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Arielle Silverman wrote: >>>>>> Hi Jim and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> My understanding is that there is already going to be a general >>>>>> employment seminar at the convention on Friday, July 3. At least >>>>>> that's what's happened in past years. NABS isn't going to compete >>>>>> with this annual career seminar, although we can certainly talk about >>>>>> hosting a job-related podcast or seminar during a different part of >>>>>> the year. >>>>>> >>>>>> I believe the Affiliate Action department will also be hosting an >>>>>> advocacy seminar sometime during convention. Again, I haven't seen the >>>>>> agenda for this year, but am basing this on tradition from the seven >>>>>> other national conventions I've attended thus far. >>>>>> >>>>>> Arielle Silverman >>>>>> First Vice-President, NABS >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Bill wrote: >>>>>>> I have had little experience but would be happy to run the sound >>>>>>> board. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jim Reed wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>>>> Several things need to happen to make the NFB national convention >>>>>>>> career >>>>>>>> seminar available to all on the web. To begin with, you need to >>>>>>>> vollenter >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> help. I may be going to the convention (pending a job interview >>>>>>>> tomarrow), >>>>>>>> if I go, I will be willing to do my part. But for now, I can get the >>>>>>>> ball >>>>>>>> rolling. If you are interested in helping out with some or all of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> following task, please email me OFF LIST (I get the NABS list in >>>>>>>> digest >>>>>>>> format, so its better to meail be directly) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First, we need to find the equipment. >>>>>>>> 1 Does anybody have, or have access to, high-end A/V recording >>>>>>>> equipment? >>>>>>>> 2. If not, then the NFB/NABS needs to rent, or otherwize provide >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> equipment. >>>>>>>> 1. NABS board members, what needs to happen to make those >>>>>>>> funda >>>>>>>> avaliable? >>>>>>>> 2. The easiest thing would be to rent it in Detroit. We >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> find out where. >>>>>>>> 3. And we need to arainge for someone to pick-up and >>>>>>>> drop-off >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> gear. >>>>>>>> 4. Perhaps the local college or high school A/V clubs >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> willing to allow us >>>>>>>> to borrow their gear, or maybe even take on >>>>>>>> recording/production as a project. >>>>>>>> 5. It may be worth while to contact the MI affiliate, or >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Detroit chapter to find local >>>>>>>> resources. Any Michigan students on the list? >>>>>>>> 3. Due to compatability issues, we need to know the specs of the >>>>>>>> P.A. >>>>>>>> system that >>>>>>>> will be used in Detroit. Can anyone find that info? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Next we need to focus on personell >>>>>>>> 1. Depending on the lenght of the seminar, we may need several >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> willing to take >>>>>>>> turn running the camera. Who wants to take on recording >>>>>>>> duties? >>>>>>>> 2. Depending on the equipment, we may need people running sound >>>>>>>> boards >>>>>>>> or what >>>>>>>> not. >>>>>>>> 3. Post-convention, we need someone to edit the raw footage >>>>>>>> 4. Then we need to get it on the web. (Joe?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Lastly, we need to contact the speaker >>>>>>>> 1. It would be nice to find out her presentation plans so we >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> plan >>>>>>>> accordingly. >>>>>>>> 2. It would be nice to post her slide shows or other A/V >>>>>>>> material >>>>>>>> along with the video. >>>>>>>> 3. We need copies of any handouts, so that they can be scanned >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> upoaded. >>>>>>>> 4. To protect all of us, we need to secure written (signed, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> dated) permission from >>>>>>>> the speaker to record and post her presentation and >>>>>>>> materials >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the web. I know >>>>>>>> Joe mentioned that she already gave permission, but I wont >>>>>>>> take >>>>>>>> further action until I >>>>>>>> see a signed document. As President Ronald Regan said, >>>>>>>> "trust, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> verify." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope to hear from you guys, >>>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co >>>>> m >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/taiablas%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 11 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:10:28 -0400 >>>>> From: "Jason Mandarino" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>> option >>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My study >>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>> to >>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>> legal >>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>> education >>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>> blast. >>>>> >>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>> a >>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>> your >>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>> responsibility. >>>>> >>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>> services >>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>> running >>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all my >>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. They >>>>> can >>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>> >>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Mandarino >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of priscilla >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying >>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because >>>>> of >>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>> with >>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>> and >>>>> Brussels. >>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for >>>>> me >>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>> with >>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it >>>>> never happened. >>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>> mentioned >>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need >>>>> to >>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not >>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>> to >>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>> was >>>>> pretty sad. >>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>> and >>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>> because >>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>> help >>>>> me >>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. >>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>> because >>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>> can't >>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>> mom >>>>> as a last resort. >>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school >>>>> to >>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>> work >>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>> because >>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are willing >>>>> to >>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>> moor >>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>> times >>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>> used >>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her >>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>> but >>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>> support. >>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the >>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>> they >>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing >>>>> up >>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much >>>>> >>>>> Good day, >>>>> >>>>> Priscilla >>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>> how >>>>> to >>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>> to >>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>> tutoring >>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>> projects >>>>> which I need help in. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>> mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 12 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:10:31 -0400 >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27 at mail.gmail.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>> not that. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>> option >>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>> study >>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, so >>>>>> to >>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>> legal >>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>> education >>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>> blast. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will be >>>>>> a >>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years under >>>>>> your >>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>> services >>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>> running >>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>> my >>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>> They >>>>>> can >>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>> >>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>> studying >>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>> because >>>>>> of >>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad >>>>>> with >>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, >>>>>> and >>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>> for >>>>>> me >>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>> with >>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>> it >>>>>> never happened. >>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>> mentioned >>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>> need >>>>>> to >>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>> not >>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained >>>>>> to >>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which >>>>>> was >>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>> and >>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>> because >>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>> help >>>>>> me >>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>> am. >>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>> because >>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>> can't >>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on >>>>>> mom >>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>> school >>>>>> to >>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>> work >>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>> because >>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>> willing >>>>>> to >>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>> moor >>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>> times >>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>> used >>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>> her >>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, >>>>>> but >>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>> support. >>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>> the >>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>> they >>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>> signing >>>>>> up >>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>> >>>>>> Good day, >>>>>> >>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>> how >>>>>> to >>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>> to >>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>> tutoring >>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>> projects >>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>> mail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 13 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:09:50 -0400 >>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0 at Serene> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>>> reply-type=original >>>>> >>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure that >>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>>> My >>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>>> I >>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>> nobody >>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>> blind >>>>> or, >>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>> younger >>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>> him >>>>> >>>>> a >>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>>> know >>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>> international, >>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>> not that. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>> option >>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>> study >>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>>> legal >>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>> education >>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had a >>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>> under >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>> services >>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>> running >>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>> studying >>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>> explained >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she >>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>>> help >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>>> am. >>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> mom >>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>> school >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>> willing >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>>> moor >>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>> support. >>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>> signing >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other >>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>> projects >>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 14 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:31:04 -0400 >>>>> From: Beth >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> <4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635 at mail.gmail.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>> Beth >>>>> >>>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>>> that >>>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, however, >>>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>>>> My >>>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great Adventure. >>>>>> I >>>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>>> nobody >>>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>>> blind >>>>>> or, >>>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>>> younger >>>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>>> him >>>>>> a >>>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>>>> know >>>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>>> international, >>>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>>> not that. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>>> study >>>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>>> under >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover all >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social >>>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>>> explained >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>>> situation >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>>>> am. >>>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> mom >>>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>>>> moor >>>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>>> signing >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>>> excited >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 15 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:23:57 -0400 >>>>> From: "Serena" >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0 at Serene> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>>>> reply-type=original >>>>> >>>>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me any >>>>> differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>>>> went >>>>> with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found anyone >>>>> else >>>>> to >>>>> go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my sighted >>>>> classmates >>>>> would want to help me out with the trip just cuz they were my friends >>>>> or >>>>> acquaintances. This proved not to be the case. >>>>> >>>>> Serena >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>>> Beth >>>>>> >>>>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>>>>> however, >>>>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your acquaintances. >>>>>>> My >>>>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>>>>> Adventure. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>>>> nobody >>>>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> or, >>>>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>>>> younger >>>>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>>>> him >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>>>> international, >>>>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it makes >>>>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>>>> not that. >>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>>>> study >>>>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to them, >>>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of a >>>>>>>>> legal >>>>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we had >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this will >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>>>> under >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>>>>> travel >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>>>> explained >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>>>> situation >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to >>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I >>>>>>>>> am. >>>>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> mom >>>>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go >>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will get >>>>>>>>> moor >>>>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to >>>>>>>>> her >>>>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>>>> signing >>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>>>>> learn >>>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>>>> excited >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 16 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:53:46 -0500 >>>>> From: Domonique Lawless >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Material >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> <423e6e460904241953v11cb72e8v7de52a9b0c8800d5 at mail.gmail.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> >>>>> Hello Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I am going to take the GRE in the Fall and was wondering what >>>>> accessable study materials were out there, and what you guys have done >>>>> to prepare. If you could offer any advice or can point me in the right >>>>> direction I would greatly appreciate it. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Domonique Lawless >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 17 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0700 >>>>> From: Haben Girma >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <49F2841B.3020405 at aol.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>> >>>>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >>>>> persons" >>>>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>>>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>>>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>>>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>>>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >>>>> would >>>>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>>>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>>>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>>>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>>>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>>>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>>>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>>>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>>>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>>>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>>>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>>>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>>>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>>>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>>>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >>>>> "persons >>>>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>>>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>>>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>>>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>>>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>>>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>>>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>>>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>>>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>>>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>>>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>>>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>>>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>>>> >>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>>>> most >>>>>> of >>>>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>>>> persons >>>>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>>>> disability >>>>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>>>> particular >>>>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the problem >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> me. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how we >>>>>> think >>>>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether we >>>>>> are >>>>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>>>> up >>>>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>>>> Canada's >>>>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >>>>>> can't >>>>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time >>>>>> I >>>>>> say >>>>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>>>> disability. >>>>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>>>> only >>>>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>>>> there >>>>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >>>>>> When >>>>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>>>> this >>>>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>>>> that >>>>>> the >>>>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>>>> Far >>>>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things to >>>>>> be >>>>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>>>> special >>>>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >>>>>> the >>>>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>>>>> and >>>>>> it >>>>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>>>> disability >>>>>> differently. >>>>>> >>>>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>>>> disability, >>>>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>>>> anyway >>>>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>>>>> and >>>>>> for >>>>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>>>> think >>>>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >>>>>> so >>>>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>>>>> >>>>>> Haben >>>>>> >>>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>>>> guilty >>>>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> >>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> topic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>>>> What >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>> >>>>>> is >>>>>> >>>>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >>>>>>> social >>>>>>> factors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>>>> seem >>>>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>>>>> >>>>>> short, >>>>>> >>>>>>> society itself, were different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>> Canadians. >>>>>> >>>>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>>>> challenges >>>>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life living >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>>>>> >>>>>> viewed >>>>>> >>>>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the world >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>> be >>>>>> >>>>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>>>>> >>>>>> training >>>>>> >>>>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>>>>> >>>>>> experiments >>>>>> >>>>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>>>> blind? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> >>>>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>>>>>> >>>>>> we'll >>>>>> >>>>>>> never really know for sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> >>>>>> you >>>>>> >>>>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> >>>>>> than >>>>>> >>>>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>>>> possess >>>>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >>>>>>> significant >>>>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>>>> skin >>>>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>>>>> possess >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>>>> cases, >>>>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>>>> result >>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>>>> Here's >>>>>>> hoping anyways. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> question? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>>>> physical >>>>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >>>>>>> out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>>>> pickup >>>>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>>>>> number >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>>>> literary >>>>>>> works in Braille. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> >>>>>> question? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>>>>>> >>>>>> which, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >>>>>>>> persuade >>>>>>>> >>>>>> some >>>>>> >>>>>>>> of you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >>>>>>>> distinction >>>>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>>>> codified >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>>>> trait >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>>>> meaningless >>>>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>>>> contexts, >>>>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>>>> imposed >>>>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>>>>>> >>>>>> building. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more disabled >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >>>>>>>> fifteen >>>>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>>>> respect >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>>>> elevators >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>>>> openers, >>>>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many people >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> >>>>>> make >>>>>> >>>>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> I read his work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>>>>>> >>>>>> disability. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>>>> available, >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>>>> quotation >>>>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> position I've outlined. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>> nuisance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack of >>>>>>>> eye >>>>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>>>> lack >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>>>> nuisance >>>>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>>> question? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>>>> students, >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>>>>>> >>>>>> major >>>>>> >>>>>>>> life function, sight. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>>>>>> >>>>>> blind >>>>>> >>>>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to minimize >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>>>> attitude, >>>>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> ca >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>>> >>>>>>> ca >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>>> ca >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 18 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:44:07 -0500 >>>>> From: "Wilson, Joanne" (by way of David Andrews >>>>> ) >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] White Cane Program >>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Free White Cane Message >>>>> >>>>> If you have received a cane through our Free White Cane >>>>> Program, then this message is for you! We are preparing outreach >>>>> materials, and would like a few quotes describing how you felt about >>>>> getting your free cane. Whether this was your first cane, or if >>>>> you're an experienced cane user, we want to hear what you have to >>>>> say. For many, the White Cane is a symbol of independence, >>>>> self-sufficiency, and freedom. Please take a moment to tell us in a >>>>> paragraph or two what the cane you received through the Free White >>>>> Cane Program means to you. Please e-mail your comments to >>>>> jwilson at nfb.org. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Joanne Wilson >>>>> Affiliate Action Executive Director >>>>> 410-659-9314 extension 2335 >>>>> jwilson at nfb.org >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> Name: Free White Cane Message.doc >>>>> Type: application/msword >>>>> Size: 30208 bytes >>>>> Desc: not available >>>>> URL: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 19 >>>>> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:10:38 -0700 >>>>> From: Haben Girma >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> >>>>> Message-ID: <49F28D3E.2040305 at aol.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Serena, I know what you mean about internationals. It's a >>>>> generalization, so not true for everyone, but it does seem to be the >>>>> case that people from other countries, especially from the Third World, >>>>> have a stronger sense of social responsibility. Grandparents are >>>>> usually >>>>> taken care of by their children rather than sent to retirement homes in >>>>> the Third World. Also, the elderly are respected for being experienced >>>>> and wise, rather than being scorned for their old-fashion ways as they >>>>> sometimes are in America. Those are generalizations, again, and just >>>>> the >>>>> tip of the iceberg of why International students tend to be more >>>>> willing >>>>> to help. >>>>> >>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>> Serena wrote: >>>>>> I just meant that the international students I knew didn't treat me >>>>>> any differently just cuz I'm blind. True, they were sometimes more >>>>>> overprotective, but they never didn't want to help me. My friend who >>>>>> went with me on the trip was shocked when he asked me if I'd found >>>>>> anyone else to go with and I said I hadn't. He simply thought that my >>>>>> sighted classmates would want to help me out with the trip just cuz >>>>>> they were my friends or acquaintances. This proved not to be the >>>>>> case. >>>>>> >>>>>> Serena >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:31 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Question: how do international peopl have different values than the >>>>>>> average sighted American? This is weird. I know international >>>>>>> students who are very nice and help me whenever I ask for it, but the >>>>>>> general sighted public is so self-centered these days. >>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Serena wrote: >>>>>>>> I agree that it should be a student , not a gardian. I'm not sure >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> students going on the trip will necessarily want to help you, >>>>>>>> however, >>>>>>>> regardless of being paid, unless they're at least your >>>>>>>> acquaintances. My >>>>>>>> senior year of college, there was a trip to Six Flags Great >>>>>>>> Adventure. I >>>>>>>> asked several senior friends and acquaintances who were going, but >>>>>>>> nobody >>>>>>>> wanted to go with me, either cuz of the responsibility of my being >>>>>>>> blind or, >>>>>>>> simply, they didn't care about the situation! I ended up asking a >>>>>>>> younger >>>>>>>> friend, who wasn't going originally, to do it and "paid" him, giving >>>>>>>> him a >>>>>>>> free ticket the Office of Student Activities gave me to "pay" him. >>>>>>>> I know >>>>>>>> he would've gone with me, even if I didn't pay him, cuz he's >>>>>>>> international, >>>>>>>> so has different values than the average sighted American. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Serena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Beth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I like the idea of someone hired as a guide, but it should be a >>>>>>>>> student going on the trip, not a parent or guardian because it >>>>>>>>> makes >>>>>>>>> us, the blind, look like minors or something above children. We're >>>>>>>>> not that. >>>>>>>>> Beth >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 4/24/09, Jason Mandarino wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I am sure it varies from campus to campus, but I actually had the >>>>>>>>>> option >>>>>>>>>> posed to me in regards to paying for a friend to come with me. My >>>>>>>>>> study >>>>>>>>>> abroad program acted like I could be a potential liability to >>>>>>>>>> them, so to >>>>>>>>>> make things as convenient as possible they covered the expense of >>>>>>>>>> a legal >>>>>>>>>> adult to accompany me. This individual did not qualify for the >>>>>>>>>> education >>>>>>>>>> credits, and I did not even spend all my time with them, but we >>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> blast. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would not recommend taking your mother on this trip, as this >>>>>>>>>> will be a >>>>>>>>>> pioneer experience for you. You had approximately eighteen years >>>>>>>>>> under >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> mother, and it is now time for you to make some mistakes and take >>>>>>>>>> responsibility. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Additionally, you may be able to pull some funding from disability >>>>>>>>>> services >>>>>>>>>> in regards to the financing of your guide. Obviously your time is >>>>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>>>> out, so options may be worth while. My disability services cover >>>>>>>>>> all my >>>>>>>>>> additional expenses on campus, and randomly award me scholarships. >>>>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>> not use the money for other purposes, so we might as well. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Just some ideas. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Mandarino >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>>>> Of priscilla >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear all listers, >>>>>>>>>> This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to >>>>>>>>>> studying >>>>>>>>>> abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> students backing out due to financial circumstances. >>>>>>>>>> I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go >>>>>>>>>> abroad >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. >>>>>>>>>> This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, >>>>>>>>>> Belgium, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> Brussels. >>>>>>>>>> the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had >>>>>>>>>> concerns for >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually >>>>>>>>>> travel with >>>>>>>>>> the school not counting the last time I planned another trip >>>>>>>>>> because it >>>>>>>>>> never happened. >>>>>>>>>> my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I >>>>>>>>>> mentioned >>>>>>>>>> in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. >>>>>>>>>> The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. >>>>>>>>>> I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times >>>>>>>>>> because of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in >>>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>>> settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it >>>>>>>>>> does not >>>>>>>>>> count anymore since they are no longer at school >>>>>>>>>> I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I >>>>>>>>>> explained to >>>>>>>>>> her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, >>>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>>> unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> pretty sad. >>>>>>>>>> I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my >>>>>>>>>> situation and >>>>>>>>>> they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid >>>>>>>>>> to help >>>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>>> but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than >>>>>>>>>> I am. >>>>>>>>>> I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. >>>>>>>>>> I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help >>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>> unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to >>>>>>>>>> depend on >>>>>>>>>> mom >>>>>>>>>> as a last resort. >>>>>>>>>> but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another >>>>>>>>>> school >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences >>>>>>>>>> from work >>>>>>>>>> that are a week's worth or more. >>>>>>>>>> She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to >>>>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are >>>>>>>>>> willing >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will >>>>>>>>>> get moor >>>>>>>>>> information because I would like to go too." >>>>>>>>>> I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god >>>>>>>>>> 1000 >>>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>>> for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. >>>>>>>>>> but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> used >>>>>>>>>> to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed >>>>>>>>>> to her >>>>>>>>>> being with me all the time. >>>>>>>>>> I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too >>>>>>>>>> comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the >>>>>>>>>> trip, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for >>>>>>>>>> support. >>>>>>>>>> So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to >>>>>>>>>> deposit the >>>>>>>>>> money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday >>>>>>>>>> unless >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are >>>>>>>>>> signing >>>>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>>>> due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. >>>>>>>>>> So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate >>>>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Good day, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Priscilla >>>>>>>>>> Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to >>>>>>>>>> learn how >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am >>>>>>>>>> excited to >>>>>>>>>> learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get >>>>>>>>>> tutoring >>>>>>>>>> for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for >>>>>>>>>> projects >>>>>>>>>> which I need help in. >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> mail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 20 >>>>> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 02:15:41 -0400 >>>>> From: Jedi >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Message-ID: <20090425061541.22144.74541 at web2.serotek.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" >>>>> >>>>> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >>>>> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >>>>> Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." >>>>> we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had a >>>>> lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with phrases >>>>> that have a negative connotation or that are considered negative or >>>>> stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. Jernigan would >>>>> argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as "person with a >>>>> disability" except that "disabled person" is less linguisticly awkward >>>>> when used multiple times in a document or in speech. He would also >>>>> argue that "person with a disability" might actually increase the >>>>> stigma because we're effectively saying that the disability part is >>>>> something we're not supposed to bring any attention to. Jernigan wrote >>>>> an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." It's an interesting >>>>> article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person and let people >>>>> qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get to know me, they >>>>> will undoubtedly find that whatever negative assumptions they have are >>>>> dead wrong. >>>>> Original message: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Mark, >>>>> >>>>>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >>>>>> persons" >>>>>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>>>>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal >>>>>> designs" >>>>>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>>>>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>>>>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >>>>>> would >>>>>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>>>>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. >>>>>> Someone >>>>>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>>>>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" >>>>>> would >>>>>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather >>>>>> than >>>>>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>>>>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>>>>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>>>>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>>>>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider >>>>>> the >>>>>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>>>>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>>>>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>>>>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>>>>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >>>>>> "persons >>>>>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>>>>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>>>>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>>>>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described >>>>>> it. >>>>>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>>>>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>>>>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both >>>>>> terms >>>>>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>>>>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>>>> >>>>>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a >>>>>> kid >>>>>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to >>>>>> be >>>>>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that >>>>>> all >>>>>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>>>>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>>>> >>>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>>>>> persons >>>>>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>>>>> disability >>>>>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>>>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>>>>> particular >>>>>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> is in >>>>>>> me. >>>>> >>>>>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I end >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>>>> >>>>>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>>>>> Canada's >>>>>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every time >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> say >>>>>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>>>>> disability. >>>>>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that it >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>>>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >>>>>>> When >>>>>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, and >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>>>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability today. >>>>>>> Far >>>>>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>>>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>>>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>>>>> special >>>>>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>>>>> disability >>>>>>> differently. >>>>> >>>>>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>>>>> disability, >>>>>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>>>>> anyway >>>>>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>>>>> think >>>>>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>>>> Marc >>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>>>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>>>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>>>> >>>>>>> Haben >>>>> >>>>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>>>>> guilty >>>>>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >>>>>>>> with >>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>> >>>>>>>> topic. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>>>>> What I >>>>>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from >>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>>>>> blindness >>>>> >>>>>>> is >>>>> >>>>>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>>>>> blindness >>>>>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>> factors. >>>>> >>>>>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>>>>> seem >>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be eliminated >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>>> >>>>>>> short, >>>>> >>>>>>>> society itself, were different. >>>>> >>>>>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>>>>> time >>>>> >>>>>>> and >>>>> >>>>>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>>> >>>>>>> Canadians. >>>>> >>>>>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>>>>> challenges >>>>>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's >>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life >>>>>>>> living >>>>>>>> in a >>>>>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>>> >>>>>>> viewed >>>>> >>>>>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the >>>>>>>> world >>>>>>>> to >>>>> >>>>>>> be >>>>> >>>>>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>>> >>>>>>> training >>>>> >>>>>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>>> >>>>>>> experiments >>>>> >>>>>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>>>>> blind? >>>>> >>>>>>> I >>>>> >>>>>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that >>>>>>>> exists, >>>>> >>>>>>> we'll >>>>> >>>>>>>> never really know for sure. >>>>> >>>>>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>>> >>>>>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social forces, >>>>>>>> but >>>>> >>>>>>> you >>>>> >>>>>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the >>>>>>>> phrase >>>>>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>>>>> more >>>>> >>>>>>> than >>>>> >>>>>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain >>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >>>>>>>> significant >>>>>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>>>>> skin >>>>>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>>>>>> possess >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>>>>> cases, >>>>>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>>>>> result >>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>> >>>>>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>>>>> Here's >>>>>>>> hoping anyways. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc >>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc, >>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >>>>>>>> out. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> >>>>>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>>>>> pickup >>>>>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>>>>>> number >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>>>>> literary >>>>>>>> works in Braille. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> >>>>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>>> >>>>>>> which, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >>>>>>>>> persuade >>>>> >>>>>>> some >>>>> >>>>>>>>> of you. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >>>>>>>>> distinction >>>>>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>>>>> codified >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>>>>> trait >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>>>>> meaningless >>>>>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>>>>> contexts, >>>>>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>>>>> imposed >>>>>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>>> >>>>>>> building. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>>>>> many >>>>>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more >>>>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> me >>>>>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >>>>>>>>> fifteen >>>>>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>>>>> respect >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>>>>> elevators >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>>>>> openers, >>>>>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments would >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >>>>>>>>> that >>>>> >>>>>>> make >>>>> >>>>>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. All >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>>>>>> blindness. >>>>>>>>> My >>>>>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what Jernigan >>>>>>>>> had >>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>> >>>>>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>>>>> while >>>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>>> I read his work. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>>>>> They >>>>>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>>> >>>>>>> disability. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote the >>>>>>>>> law >>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>>>>> available, >>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >>>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I >>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>>>>> quotation >>>>>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>>>>>> support >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> position I've outlined. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>>>>> problem >>>>>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>>>>> blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>>> nuisance. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> eye >>>>>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>>>>> lack >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>>>>> nuisance >>>>>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Marc >>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>>>> question? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>>>>> students, >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of >>>>>>>>> a >>>>> >>>>>>> major >>>>> >>>>>>>>> life function, sight. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued >>>>>>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>>> blind >>>>> >>>>>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to >>>>>>>>> minimize >>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>>>>> attitude, >>>>>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> >>>>>>>> ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>> >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>>>> ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> REspectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 29 >>>>> ************************************** >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 27 04:25:47 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:25:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> Message-ID: <002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, By the time of the national convention this epidemic will have run its course and all will be well with the World. This isn't The Andromeda Strain after all. See you in Detroit. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela fowler" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys talking about? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. We were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. Anybody remember that? Beth On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying > very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient > outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this > case, sharing isn't caring. > > Jim > > > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Apr 27 05:04:22 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:04:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? Message-ID: <20090427050422.5249.74116@web1.serotek.com> I'd have a harder time of explaining it than Jernigan did. I suggest your read the article. Original message: > Hey Jedi, > I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the > phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" > would send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure > how the phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is > something that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain > that? And thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating > reading. > Haben > Jedi wrote: >> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >> Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." >> we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had >> a lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with >> phrases that have a negative connotation or that are considered >> negative or stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. >> Jernigan would argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as >> "person with a disability" except that "disabled person" is less >> linguisticly awkward when used multiple times in a document or in >> speech. He would also argue that "person with a disability" might >> actually increase the stigma because we're effectively saying that the >> disability part is something we're not supposed to bring any attention >> to. Jernigan wrote an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." >> It's an interesting article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person >> and let people qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get >> to know me, they will undoubtedly find that whatever negative >> assumptions they have are dead wrong. >> Original message: >>> Hi Mark, >>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled persons" >>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it would >>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term "persons >>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. >>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. >>> Haben >>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>> most of >>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>> persons >>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>> disability >>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>> particular >>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the >>>> problem is in >>>> me. >>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how >>>> we think >>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether >>>> we are >>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I >>>> end up >>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. >>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>> Canada's >>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really can't >>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every >>>> time I say >>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>> disability. >>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that >>>> it only >>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>> there >>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. When >>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, >>>> and this >>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>> that the >>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability >>>> today. Far >>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things >>>> to be >>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>> special >>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in the >>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>>> and it >>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>> disability >>>> differently. >>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>> disability, >>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>> anyway >>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>>> and for >>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>> think >>>> it's the right way of looking at it. >>>> Best, >>>> Marc >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language so >>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? >>>> Haben >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>> guilty >>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist with >>>> this >>>>> topic. >>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>> What I >>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>> blindness >>>> is >>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot because >>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>> blindness >>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through social >>>>> factors. >>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>> seem >>>> to >>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>> blindness. >>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be >>>>> eliminated if >>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in >>>> short, >>>>> society itself, were different. >>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>> time >>>> and >>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather than >>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind >>>> Canadians. >>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>> challenges >>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust my >>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life >>>>> living in a >>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>> where >>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was >>>> viewed >>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the >>>>> world to >>>> be >>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best >>>> training >>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind people >>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought >>>> experiments >>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>> blind? >>>> I >>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, >>>> we'll >>>>> never really know for sure. >>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. >>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, or >>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>>> is not >>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social >>>>> forces, but >>>> you >>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>> more >>>> than >>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>> possess >>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and significant >>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>> skin >>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>>> possess the >>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>> cases, >>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>> result >>>> in >>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>> Here's >>>>> hoping anyways. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Marc >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? >>>>> Marc, >>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>> physical >>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>> about >>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. >>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>> with >>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day out. >>>>> Antonio Guimaraes >>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>> pickup >>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>>> number of >>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>> literary >>>>> works in Braille. >>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>> question? >>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with >>>> which, >>>>>> I >>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can persuade >>>> some >>>>>> of you. >>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The distinction >>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and is >>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>> codified >>>>>> in >>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. >>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>> trait >>>>>> or >>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>> could be >>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>> meaningless >>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>> contexts, >>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>> imposed >>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. >>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my >>>> building. >>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>> many >>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more >>>>>> disabled than >>>>>> me >>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the fifteen >>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>> respect >>>>>> to >>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>> elevators in >>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>> openers, >>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many >>>>>> people in >>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments >>>>>> would not >>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. >>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles that >>>> make >>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. >>>>>> All of >>>>>> these >>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>>> blindness. My >>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what >>>>>> Jernigan had >>>> in >>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>> while >>>>>> since >>>>>> I read his work. >>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>> that's >>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>> They >>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of >>>> disability. >>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote >>>>>> the law >>>>>> were >>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>> disabled >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>> available, >>>>>> then >>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is yet >>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. >>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>> put it >>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>> quotation >>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>>> support the >>>>>> position I've outlined. >>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>> problem >>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>> blind >>>>>> person >>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> nuisance. >>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack >>>>>> of eye >>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>> lack of >>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid >>>>>> of the >>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>> nuisance >>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Marc >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? >>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. >>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>> certain >>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>> students, >>>>>> we >>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a >>>> major >>>>>> life function, sight. >>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for >>>> blind >>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. >>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to >>>>>> minimize my >>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>> attitude, >>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. >>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>>> ca >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>>> ca >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. >>>> ca >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>> for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- REspectfully, Jedi Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 05:31:53 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 01:31:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> <002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4383d01d0904262231h7d903eb4oc80b492e36b6aa7a@mail.gmail.com> I agree. After all, the bird flu was nothing. Just a bunch of srry Asian villages and live chickens and then, well, nothing else happened erwards. Beth On 4/27/09, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > By the time of the national convention this epidemic will have run its > course and all will be well with the World. This isn't The Andromeda Strain > after all. See you in Detroit. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela fowler" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > > At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys talking > about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. We > were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. Anybody > remember that? > Beth > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >> case, sharing isn't caring. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From davidb521 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 05:46:54 2009 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David Bouchard) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:46:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Message-ID: <49f546cb.01025a0a.3311.79ec@mx.google.com> Maybe you would not, but others might be concerned with the cost. Who knows how much cane prices would go up, and the weight of the cane may increase, which would not be good since the low weight of an NFB cane is what makes it so appealing. Also, the blind are not the only people at risk by these silent engines. As has been said, small children, joggers, etc are at risk. In my opinion, car manufacturors should be required to add a sound device to every new hybrid or electric vehicle produced to ensure that everyone can hear their presence. -----Original Message----- From: jonte Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 4:49 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Maybe there are numerous problems with putting a mechanism in the cane that would detect a hybrid car. I'll concede to that. However, if it ever were to happen, I would not throw a pity fest about the cost of the cane if a mechanism has been developed that could save my life. -----Original Message----- From: Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 1:07 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act Jont, I disagree. Putting a mechanism in every cane to detect the hybrid has several problems. It likely will make the cane heavier. It will make canes more fragile. Lastly and importantly it will drive up the cost of canes. We need canes to be affordable. My canes wear out in a handful of years, like three or four years. The paint wears off and its just older. So I want the cost of canes to stay where they are. Also such legislation will help all pedestrians not just blind people. Children are still taught to stop, look and listen. So listening is still a valuable cue for all. We should not take this away. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonte" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > How about putting a mechanism in the cane that detects the hybrid car? I > think that would be much more effective than trying to persuade the car > companies to accommodate us. > Jonte > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Spangler > Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Pedestrian safety improvement act > > I totally agree with you but I think you misunderstand the legislation. > It is not necessarily saying that we have to cause setbacks in hybrid > cars or even how we should be able to hear them. It simply states that > the department of transportation would have to research it. It can be > done without being a hinderance--there could be a mechanism on the car > that would make a sound whose speed changes with the speed of the car. > And let's remember that we don't want noise; we just want something that > is audible. I think that most blind people would agree with sighted > people that they don't want loud trucks driving past their houses. > > Thanks, > Robby > > Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello, >> I am not quite sure how to feel on this issue. On one hand, quiet cars >> might pose a saftey risk to blind persons and others, but on the other >> hand, there is such a thing as noise pollution, air pollution, dependence >> on forign oil, and enviromental damage. >> >> Aditionally, there is another element of this issue related to the >> support or hinderance of societal progress. Hybrids represent the next >> great leap in our society, if additional laws are passed regulating this >> development, it may prove to hinder the development of the hybrid car. >> Remember, the impact of hybrid cars isnt just a blindness issue, there >> are much more importiant nation issues at stake. For example, national >> security risk via a dependence of forign oil. >> >> There are also economic concerns. The continued research and development >> of hybrids, alternative fuels, and "green" energy, will potentially be >> the savior of our economy. If hybrids become the next big thing, they >> could jumpstart the nearly dead auto industry, thus helping our economy >> and individual families. If you go to the national convention in Detroit, >> you will all see first hand the conciquences of this current economic >> collapes. Now is the time to be supporting industy and inovation, not >> hindering it. >> >> Lastly, if blind independence is truely the goal of the NFB and blind >> persons, then the burden is on us -- blind people-- to adapt to the >> changing world, the burden is not on the world to adapt to us. Perhaps in >> the era of silent cars, it may be time to tweak cane-travel >> methodologies? >> >> I can't support this. I will not be a party to the hinderance of societal >> progress, continued enviromental degradfation, or further economic >> decline. I will not expect industy or tax payers to foot the bill because >> I (we) refuse to adapt. >> >> Well thats my two cents >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com >> > > -- > Robert Spangler > The University of Toledo > Student Senate - Recording Secretary > Ohio Association of Blind Students - President > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4033 (20090424) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jonte711%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.com From thisischris89 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 10:30:06 2009 From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:30:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] precalc Message-ID: <66FAFC48EEE2431A994225E590BCB56D@consumer281f9d> Hi all, I intend on taking precalculus during an eight week summer session starting in early June. So far, I've taken college algebra and have worked with readers and books from RFB&D. For things like exams, I use a brailler and then dictate all my work and answers to the reader/scribe. This has proven to work fairly well, excluding the chaos factor when describing graphs and other things of a visual nature. If there's anybody on here who has taken precalculus and could offer me some pointers from a practical standpoint (methods for taking notes, shortcuts, etc), I'd be very interested in connecting with you, provided that final exams aren't completely taking over your lives. Thanks From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 11:31:41 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 07:31:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: <20090427050422.5249.74116@web1.serotek.com> References: <20090427050422.5249.74116@web1.serotek.com> Message-ID: <8E08F747EFE94B44B72D80E3D2687DFE@Jessica> Haben, In the Educational System now in the United States it's become more common to see the person first language as opposed to saying disability first language. And, Like I've said in an earlier post the person first language has also only become common place in the last five or ten years in the US. Now, it's starting to also be used in medical and other general public areas. Also, being blind or visually impaired is a characteristic just like say having blonde hair or brown eyes is. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:04 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? > I'd have a harder time of explaining it than Jernigan did. I suggest your > read the article. > Original message: >> Hey Jedi, > >> I totally get your argument about how easily the tongue slides over the >> phrase "disabled person" while the phrase "person with a disability" >> would send the tongue tumbling along a needless marathon...I'm not sure >> how the phrase "person with a disaiblity" implies that a disaiblity is >> something that should not be brought into attention. Could you explain >> that? And thanks for the article, I"ll go find it for some fascinating >> reading. > >> Haben > >> Jedi wrote: >>> Well, I look at it this way. If we can indeed possess love or >>> intelligence, we don't say "she has love." or "She has intelligence." >>> Or, we don't say "A person with intelligence" or "A person with love." >>> we say a loving person or an intelligent person. I think Jernigan had >>> a lot going for him when he said that we only talk symantics with >>> phrases that have a negative connotation or that are considered >>> negative or stigmatizing characteristics. Let's take disability. >>> Jernigan would argue that "disabled person" is effectively the same as >>> "person with a disability" except that "disabled person" is less >>> linguisticly awkward when used multiple times in a document or in >>> speech. He would also argue that "person with a disability" might >>> actually increase the stigma because we're effectively saying that the >>> disability part is something we're not supposed to bring any attention >>> to. Jernigan wrote an article in 1993 called "Euphemisms Excoriated." >>> It's an interesting article. As for me, i just say I'm a blind person >>> and let people qualify that as they may. If they take the time to get >>> to know me, they will undoubtedly find that whatever negative >>> assumptions they have are dead wrong. >>> Original message: > >>>> Hi Mark, > >>>> I feel that the terms "persons with disabilities" and "disabled >>>> persons" >>>> are both a bit vague and interpretable in various ways. One could read >>>> it as "persons with disabilities caused by a lack of universal designs" >>>> or "persons with disabilities that prevent them from being full >>>> participants in society." I find that the message one gets from these >>>> terms depends on the attitudes they approach them with. I think it >>>> would >>>> take a lot of positive thinking to see that the term "disabled person" >>>> means social forces are restricting the person's participation. Someone >>>> with a negative attitude might hear the phrase "disabled person" and >>>> think "Oh, that guy just can't do it." The term "disabled person" would >>>> probably be interpreted as an inherently incompetent person rather than >>>> the more open-minded interpretation of one affected by social forces. >>>> Come to think of it, most people would be more likely to adopt a >>>> negative interpretation from both terms. I do like that the term >>>> "persons with disabilities" acknowledges that the subjects are persons >>>> before going to stress that the persons have disabilities. Consider the >>>> term "persons with socially incurred impairments." Can one possess a >>>> "socially incurred impairment?" Like a disability, a socially incurred >>>> impairment is abstract. So now I've come to that philosophical realm >>>> where we ask whether abstract concepts, such as love and intelligence, >>>> can be possessed. If not, then it would seem OK to use the term >>>> "persons >>>> with disabilities" because it would not mean that we possess the >>>> disabilities. If we can possess abstract concepts, if we can possess >>>> disabilities, then we can also possess "socially incurred impairments" >>>> because that's precisely what disabilities are, as you've described it. >>>> So if we can also possess socially incurred impairments, then it would >>>> seem philosophically appropriate to use the term persons with >>>> disabilities. Not that disabled persons is wrong, of course. Both terms >>>> can be interpreted in a variety of ways, as I said at the start, and >>>> I've just been thinking out some of those possibilities. > >>>> Yes, I, too, detest the term special needs. I would swallow it as a kid >>>> thinking that was how grown-ups wanted to get ablebodied children to be >>>> nice to disabled children. "Special" is a nice and simple word that all >>>> kids can understand. I now question it's use for any group, but it's >>>> especially repulsive to hear it used for adults. > >>>> Haben > >>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: >>>>> Haben, since you asked, and since you seem genuinely interested, in >>>>> most of >>>>> my writings on disability I try to say disabled persons, rather than >>>>> persons >>>>> with disabilities. The latter phrase suggests that I possess a >>>>> disability >>>>> whereas to be disabled is to have something imposed on me. I can be >>>>> disabled by social arrangements that are constructed to suit a >>>>> particular >>>>> kind of body, but if I am a person with a disability, then the >>>>> problem is in >>>>> me. > >>>>> That said, even though I think language is important in shaping how >>>>> we think >>>>> about things, I recognize that we have bigger problems than whether >>>>> we are >>>>> referred to as disabled people or people with disabilities, and I >>>>> end up >>>>> using the latter phrase quite a bit out of habit, so I wouldn't try to >>>>> correct someone who said persons with disabilities. > >>>>> However, today I met with some representatives from Bell, one of >>>>> Canada's >>>>> major telecommunications companies, and they have something called the >>>>> "Special Needs Centre". And Among the many topics my colleagues and I >>>>> raised with Bell was the atrocious name of this centre. I really >>>>> can't >>>>> stand the name special needs; it makes me shutter a little every >>>>> time I say >>>>> it. And I think it really reflects a bad way of thinking about >>>>> disability. >>>>> To connect it to what we've been talking about, I would argue that >>>>> it only >>>>> seems like we have special needs because we have built most of our >>>>> institutions without any consideration for blindness. For example, >>>>> there >>>>> was likely a time when many buildings didn't have women's washrooms, a >>>>> legislative building in the early twentieth century for instance. >>>>> When >>>>> women began getting elected to office, washrooms had to be built, >>>>> and this >>>>> could have been viewed as a special need. In fact, the problem was >>>>> that the >>>>> designers of the building just ignored women in their plans for the >>>>> building. Something similar happens in the case of disability >>>>> today. Far >>>>> too often, characteristics outside the norm just aren't taken into >>>>> consideration in the design of things. Then when we ask for things >>>>> to be >>>>> change to better suit people with different kinds of bodies, it gets >>>>> labelled as a special need rather than a failure in design. So the >>>>> special >>>>> needs centre is a situation where I think the attitude reflected in >>>>> the >>>>> language was important enough for us to bring it up at the meeting, >>>>> and it >>>>> gave us a chance to try to encourage them to start thinking about >>>>> disability >>>>> differently. > >>>>> A quick response to Nathan. Just because blindness is legally a >>>>> disability, >>>>> which I fully recognize, doesn't mean that blindness is a disability >>>>> anyway >>>>> you look at it. Legal definition is only one way of looking at it, >>>>> and for >>>>> the reasons I've mentioned in the last few messages, I really don't >>>>> think >>>>> it's the right way of looking at it. > >>>>> Best, > >>>>> Marc > >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>> Behalf Of Haben Girma >>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 5:33 PM >>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>> question? > > >>>>> Marc, you mention that you don't like using the phrase "persons with >>>>> disabilities" because it implies that the characteristics are the >>>>> problem, not the societal forces. How might use the English language >>>>> so >>>>> that blame is not places on the characteristics? > >>>>> Haben > >>>>> mworkman at ualberta.ca wrote: > >>>>>> I don't usually like to get into debates on lists because I feel >>>>>> guilty >>>>>> about cluttering up people's inboxes, but it's too hard to resist >>>>>> with > >>>>> this > >>>>>> topic. > >>>>>> Antonio, I didn't intend to suggest that blindness is meaningless. >>>>>> What I >>>>>> tried to get across is that blindness receives its meaning from being >>>>>> situated in a social context. I see how this might imply that >>>>>> blindness > >>>>> is > >>>>>> meaningless outside of a social context, but the point is moot >>>>>> because >>>>>> blindness can't exist outside a social context. In other words, >>>>>> blindness >>>>>> definitely always has meaning; it just gets its meaning through >>>>>> social >>>>>> factors. > >>>>>> This is also why I can completely agree with you that blindness is >>>>>> associated with tremendous challenges day in and day out. Where we >>>>>> seem > >>>>> to > >>>>>> disagree is that I don't think these challenges are inherent to >>>>>> blindness. >>>>>> I think that most, if not all, of the challenges could be >>>>>> eliminated if >>>>>> institutions, programs, policies, attitudes, physical structures, in > >>>>> short, > >>>>>> society itself, were different. > >>>>>> If I thought blindness were inherently negative, I'd be spending my >>>>>> time > >>>>> and > >>>>>> effort volunteering for the Foundation Fighting Blindness, rather >>>>>> than >>>>>> working to change society with the Alliance for Equality of Blind > >>>>> Canadians. > >>>>>> If social factors weren't at least partly responsible for the >>>>>> challenges >>>>>> blind people face, there would be no need for the NFB. It's possible >>>>>> blindness is inherently bad. I honestly don't know. I won't trust >>>>>> my >>>>>> instincts on this question because I have spent my entire life >>>>>> living in a >>>>>> society that views blindness as a terrible fate. Imagine a world >>>>>> where >>>>>> every book was available in alternative formats, where blindness was > >>>>> viewed > >>>>>> as a unique way of experiencing the world, an experience of the >>>>>> world to > >>>>> be > >>>>>> valued in its own right, where every blind person received the best > >>>>> training > >>>>>> possible, where inventors and business people took blindness into >>>>>> consideration when designing products and services, where blind >>>>>> people >>>>>> didn't face misconceptions and negative attitudes about blindness. I >>>>>> realize it sounds utopian, but we're always using wacky thought > >>>>> experiments > >>>>>> in philosophy. In this imagined world, would it be a tragedy to be >>>>>> blind? > >>>>> I > >>>>>> don't think so, but until we remove every social barrier that exists, > >>>>> we'll > >>>>>> never really know for sure. > >>>>>> To Jedi, totally agree with what you say about the term impairment. > >>>>>> To Haben, a disability is something that is imposed on impairments, >>>>>> or >>>>>> characteristics outside of the norm, as Jedi puts it. A disability >>>>>> is not >>>>>> something a person possesses. You can be disabled by social >>>>>> forces, but > >>>>> you > >>>>>> don't possess a disability, which is why I typically avoid the phrase >>>>>> persons with disabilities. You're absolutely right that some >>>>>> characteristics outside the norm have disabilities imposed on them >>>>>> more > >>>>> than > >>>>>> others, but I'm not sure if that means it is inherently worse to >>>>>> possess >>>>>> those characteristics rather than the others. Remember, certain skin >>>>>> colours throughout history have had negative attitudes and >>>>>> significant >>>>>> challenges associated with them that weren't associated with other >>>>>> skin >>>>>> colours, but this doesn't mean that it was inherently worse to >>>>>> possess the >>>>>> former skin colour. We now realize that society was wrong in those >>>>>> cases, >>>>>> and I'm cautiously opptimistic that the hard work of individuals and >>>>>> advocacy groups fighting to remove social barriers will eventually >>>>>> result > >>>>> in > >>>>>> society coming to realize that it was wrong about blindness too. >>>>>> Here's >>>>>> hoping anyways. > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Marc > >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio M. Guimaraes >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:34 PM >>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>> question? > > >>>>>> Marc, > >>>>>> I don't buy a lot of what you are saying. Blindness is not only a >>>>>> physical >>>>>> descriptor. It is not escencially meaningless. I see your argument >>>>>> about >>>>>> social reactions to blindness, and simply don't agree. > >>>>>> Perhaps reading and discussing Jernigan's points in Handicap or >>>>>> characteristic is in order, but we need to be a little more honest >>>>>> with >>>>>> ourselves about the challenges blindness does pose day in and day >>>>>> out. > >>>>>> Antonio Guimaraes > >>>>>> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of >>>>>> pickup >>>>>> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite >>>>>> number of >>>>>> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great >>>>>> literary >>>>>> works in Braille. > >>>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >>>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >>>>>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:50 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical > >>>>> question? > > > >>>>>>> An interesting question, and I'm going to throw out an opinion with > >>>>> which, > >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> suspect, quite a few will disagree at first, but maybe I can >>>>>>> persuade > >>>>> some > >>>>>>> of you. > >>>>>>> Blindness is not a disability. It is an impairment. The >>>>>>> distinction >>>>>>> between impairments and disabilities goes back nearly 40 years and >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> well-entrenched in the field of disability studies. It was even >>>>>>> codified >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the World Health Organizations International Classification of >>>>>>> Impairments, >>>>>>> Disabilities, and Handicaps. > >>>>>>> In short, an impairment is a physical descriptor of the body. Any >>>>>>> trait >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> characteristic that lands near the outer edges of the bell curve >>>>>>> could be >>>>>>> construed as an impairment. But impairments are essentially >>>>>>> meaningless >>>>>>> until you situate them in a social context, and in certain social >>>>>>> contexts, >>>>>>> impairments can become disabling. In other words, disabilities are >>>>>>> imposed >>>>>>> on impairments by certain social arrangements. > >>>>>>> Let me give you an example. I live on the fifteenth floor of my > >>>>> building. > >>>>>>> The building of course has an elevator, but when it stops working, >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> people who are not normally defined as disabled become more >>>>>>> disabled than >>>>>>> me >>>>>>> with respect to my building. I often voluntarily walk up the >>>>>>> fifteen >>>>>>> flights, but many who are use to taking the elevator would find this >>>>>>> difficult or impossible, and would become disabled at least with >>>>>>> respect >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> my building. This is rarely a problem though because we put >>>>>>> elevators in >>>>>>> tall buildings, but what if we also put ramps, automatic door >>>>>>> openers, >>>>>>> accessible washrooms, etc in all our buildings too? Then many >>>>>>> people in >>>>>>> wheelchairs would no longer be disabled, as their impairments >>>>>>> would not >>>>>>> significantly impact on their lives. > >>>>>>> I am certainly disabled, but not by my blindness, by social >>>>>>> arrangements, >>>>>>> lack of adequate blindness training in Canada, quiet automobiles >>>>>>> that > >>>>> make > >>>>>>> travel dangerous, discrimination, and the list goes on and on. >>>>>>> All of >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> things, however, are social factors that are imposed on my >>>>>>> blindness. My >>>>>>> blindness is essentially neutral, and I think this is what >>>>>>> Jernigan had > >>>>> in > >>>>>>> mind when calling blindness a characteristic, though it's been a >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> since >>>>>>> I read his work. > >>>>>>> I realize that this is not how disability is defined in the ADA, but >>>>>>> that's >>>>>>> because the people who defined disability in the ADA screwed up. >>>>>>> They >>>>>>> didn't go far enough in recognizing the social construction of > >>>>> disability. > >>>>>>> But that's not surprising when you consider the one's who wrote >>>>>>> the law >>>>>>> were >>>>>>> a bunch of lawyers and bureaucrats. So if I have to identify as >>>>>>> disabled >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> order to receive the supports, legal and otherwise, that are >>>>>>> available, >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> I will, but not because I am, just because I have to, and this is >>>>>>> yet >>>>>>> another example of how social arrangements are disabling. > >>>>>>> I think there are some problems with what I've said above. I only >>>>>>> put it >>>>>>> out there as a way of thinking about blindness and disability I find >>>>>>> persuasive and interesting. And in closeing, I'm going to paste a >>>>>>> quotation >>>>>>> taken from the homepage of the NFB site. I think it tends to >>>>>>> support the >>>>>>> position I've outlined. > >>>>>>> The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real >>>>>>> problem >>>>>>> is the misunderstanding and lack of information that exist. If a >>>>>>> blind >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> has proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a >>>>>>> physical >>>>>>> nuisance. > >>>>>>> In other words, the disabling aspect of blindness is not the lack >>>>>>> of eye >>>>>>> sight (i.e., not the impairment). It is the misunderstanding and >>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>> information (i.e., the social forces) that exist. If we get rid >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> disabling social forces, blindness is no more than a physical >>>>>>> nuisance >>>>>>> (i.e., a neutral characteristic). > >>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>> Marc > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:57 AM >>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical >>>>>>> question? > > >>>>>>> Hello, Just wanted to quickly throw in my two scents. > >>>>>>> Blindness is a disability. We who are blind are not able to do >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>> things. We benefit From or fight against services for disabled >>>>>>> students, >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> receive disability checks from the government, and we have loss of a > >>>>> major > >>>>>>> life function, sight. > >>>>>>> Jernigan never argued that the blind are not disabled, he argued for > >>>>> blind > >>>>>>> people not to see themselves as handicapped. There is a difference. > >>>>>>> I am disabled by definition, and clearly make an attempt to >>>>>>> minimize my >>>>>>> disability with the use of adapted technologies, and a positive >>>>>>> attitude, >>>>>>> but I am unequivocally disabled. > >>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > > >>>>>>> ca > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > > >>>>>> ca > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta. > >>>>> ca > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>> for nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/habnkid%40aol.com > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > REspectfully, > Jedi > > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon Apr 27 15:12:21 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:12:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> Message-ID: <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the United states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In large gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think that's why Jim brought it up. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela fowler" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys > talking > about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. > We > were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. > Anybody > remember that? > Beth > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >> case, sharing isn't caring. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From fowlers at syix.com Mon Apr 27 15:30:01 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:30:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0904262231h7d903eb4oc80b492e36b6aa7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab><002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4383d01d0904262231h7d903eb4oc80b492e36b6aa7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5C0AF40E50B4483FB349D953487D306F@angelab> And then there was mad cow disease. One isolated case in England and the whole United States is in a panic! Seems like folks are always crying wolf about something. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention I agree. After all, the bird flu was nothing. Just a bunch of srry Asian villages and live chickens and then, well, nothing else happened erwards. Beth On 4/27/09, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > By the time of the national convention this epidemic will have run > its course and all will be well with the World. This isn't The > Andromeda Strain after all. See you in Detroit. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela fowler" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > > At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys > talking about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of Beth > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be > worried. We were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu > epidemic. Anybody remember that? > Beth > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >> case, sharing isn't caring. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo >> s >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sb > cglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos > e%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 27 15:33:29 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:33:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab><002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4383d01d0904262231h7d903eb4oc80b492e36b6aa7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <23EB7FA0225445C49C0E4DBDA2D1029D@david6a79a76fb> I believe the concern here is very valid since this is a combination of genetic materials. Scary times. Best Regards: David Wright Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com Mobile: (512)203-2474 Webpage: http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >I agree. After all, the bird flu was nothing. Just a bunch of srry > Asian villages and live chickens and then, well, nothing else happened > erwards. > Beth > > On 4/27/09, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> By the time of the national convention this epidemic will have run >> its >> course and all will be well with the World. This isn't The Andromeda >> Strain >> after all. See you in Detroit. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angela fowler" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> >> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >> talking >> about? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. >> We >> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >> Anybody >> remember that? >> Beth >> >> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>> e%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 16:37:03 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:37:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] "Blindness" vs. "Disability" a philosophical question? In-Reply-To: References: <20090425061541.22144.74541@web2.serotek.com> <49F3FAC3.3030703@aol.com> <8E4F4DB733E547879B665D6141B301CD@Jessica> Message-ID: <20090427163703.GB27471@yumi.bluecherry.net> Dave, College students lose points for failing to adhere to that kind of bullcrap. I've lost points for it myself. Joseph On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 02:42:58PM -0500, David Andrews wrote: > The one that bothers me is to be called a "person with blindness." It > sounds to contrived. > > Dave From dlawless86 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 18:00:11 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:00:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> Message-ID: <423e6e460904271100j1aef451fg884f5580ff89701f@mail.gmail.com> Dear listers, While this is possibly a valid concern it is important to remember that there have been no fatalities in the U.S. as of yet. Also, if a person knows they are sick then it is their responsibility to take proper precautions and make the decision whether or not to attend large gatherings like convention. Influenza is spread by respitory droplets which means that the best way to prevent the flu is by washing your hands frequently, avoiding touching your face, coughing or sneezing into a ckleenex to protect others around you and refraining from sharing drinks with others. This will not completely remove the possibility of flu but it will greatly reduce your chances of getting it. Best Wishes, Domonique On 4/27/09, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the United > states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In large > gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think that's why > Jim brought it up. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela fowler" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > >> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >> talking >> about? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. >> We >> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >> Anybody >> remember that? >> Beth >> >> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>> e%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Mon Apr 27 18:15:44 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 13:15:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab><002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4383d01d0904262231h7d903eb4oc80b492e36b6aa7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000f01c9c764$2fddeca0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Beth and listers, This one will be nothing but pig feed too. No less than President Obama has also said so . Have a great day everyone. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:31 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention I agree. After all, the bird flu was nothing. Just a bunch of srry Asian villages and live chickens and then, well, nothing else happened erwards. Beth On 4/27/09, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > By the time of the national convention this epidemic will have run its > course and all will be well with the World. This isn't The Andromeda > Strain > after all. See you in Detroit. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela fowler" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > > At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys > talking > about? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Beth > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. > We > were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. > Anybody > remember that? > Beth > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >> case, sharing isn't caring. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >> e%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From fowlers at syix.com Mon Apr 27 18:54:46 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:54:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: New Service to Download RFB&D DAISY books (AudioPlus) Message-ID: <0A7E5DAE0B864F92844BB2740305E0AE@angelab> Thought you'd be interested in this. Subject: New Service to Download RFB&D DAISY books (AudioPlus) I just received some exciting news about RFB&D's new download service and wanted to share with everyone. RFB&D has just added a new service for members to download full (AudioPlus) DAISY books from their library, making it the first group to offer full audio DAISY textbooks online. This means that members can go to RFB&D's website to search for and download a RFB&D DAISY book, and play it on their own authorized DAISY player. This gives members instant access to RFB&D's large library of books. This is major step forward from the current method of receiving DAISY books by mail. Please share this news with any interested parties. More information can be found at: http://www.rfbd.org/audioplus/index.htm http://support.rfbd.org/audioplus/ Frequently Asked Questions about new Download service http://support.rfbd.org/audioplus/faq.htm#q2-3 Support about AudioPlus download service http://support.rfbd.org/audioplus/contact.htm Sam Ogami Accessible Technology Expert CSU Office of the Chancellor (562) 951-4201 voice (562) 951-4925 fax sogami at calstate.edu From aguimaraes at nbp.org Mon Apr 27 19:52:34 2009 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:52:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox References: <258B1913E8A24AB7BB87F2F453E461FD@Rufus> Message-ID: <1268216CAB804E51851895A8AB1D6993@nbp2.local> Hello Joe, Firefox is a good browser, but not one without its bugs. The loss of cursor position is a jaws issue I wrote to freedom scientific about, and that they are aware of. Doesn't hurt for them to hear from one more consumer, if you want to send their tech support a quick message. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 20. aguimaraes at nbp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "NFB-Web" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox > Hello all, > > I've reluctantly switched to Firefox as my default browser, mostly because > it works better with my work assignments. It seems to work well so far, > but > two questions for my Firefox experts: > > 1. When I alt tab out of, and back into, the Firefox browser my cursor > position is lost. The cursor jumps back to the top of the page. How can > I > remedy this? > > 2. How do I close a single tab in the browser? I'm referring to the > equivalent of Control F4 that is true of other tab-oriented software. > > Thank you in advance for your assistance, and, WebVisum has not been > solving > my CAPTCHAS as diligently as I was hoping. Are there other related > add-ons > that would make navigation with JAWS 10 easier? > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4035 (20090425) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From aguimaraes at nbp.org Mon Apr 27 20:03:29 2009 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:03:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab><002101c9c6f0$3e8f7710$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><4383d01d0904262231h7d903eb4oc80b492e36b6aa7a@mail.gmail.com> <23EB7FA0225445C49C0E4DBDA2D1029D@david6a79a76fb> Message-ID: <4B70630F578149A58FC199BA4E7B5847@nbp2.local> Scary times for sure, but either the swine flue will be affecting millions by July, and we'll cancel convention, and think about survival, or it will have run it's course, as Pete Donahue said. I was at convention general session in 2004, and a huge thunder stopped Maurer in his tracks. In 2005 London subways were attacked. The bird flue epidemic was serious, and pointed to the fact that we are very vulnerable, and not "immune" to all malities. If something is going to happen, it's going to happen, and the national office will react accordingly. For now, follow the news for the health threat this really is, but don't worry your blind little hearts out, please! Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 20. aguimaraes at nbp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Wright" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >I believe the concern here is very valid since this is a combination of >genetic materials. Scary times. > > > Best Regards: > David Wright > Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com > Mobile: (512)203-2474 > Webpage: http://www.knfbreader.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:31 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > >>I agree. After all, the bird flu was nothing. Just a bunch of srry >> Asian villages and live chickens and then, well, nothing else happened >> erwards. >> Beth >> >> On 4/27/09, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> By the time of the national convention this epidemic will have run >>> its >>> course and all will be well with the World. This isn't The Andromeda >>> Strain >>> after all. See you in Detroit. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angela fowler" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >>> >>> >>> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >>> talking >>> about? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >>> >>> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. >>> We >>> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >>> Anybody >>> remember that? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>>> e%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 20:03:51 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:03:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox In-Reply-To: <1268216CAB804E51851895A8AB1D6993@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <382D5889473E48F5993F40B923BAD8C0@Rufus> Hi Antonio, I downloaded the recent update for JAWS 10 earlier today. All is better now, though why the problem should have been there in the first place is beyond me. There are some components of Firefox that bug me, but overall I have to say the capacity to extend the browser to make customizations a huge benefit over its counterpart. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox Hello Joe, Firefox is a good browser, but not one without its bugs. The loss of cursor position is a jaws issue I wrote to freedom scientific about, and that they are aware of. Doesn't hurt for them to hear from one more consumer, if you want to send their tech support a quick message. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 20. aguimaraes at nbp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "NFB-Web" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox > Hello all, > > I've reluctantly switched to Firefox as my default browser, mostly > because it works better with my work assignments. It seems to work > well so far, but two questions for my Firefox experts: > > 1. When I alt tab out of, and back into, the Firefox browser my cursor > position is lost. The cursor jumps back to the top of the page. How > can I remedy this? > > 2. How do I close a single tab in the browser? I'm referring to the > equivalent of Control F4 that is true of other tab-oriented software. > > Thank you in advance for your assistance, and, WebVisum has not been > solving my CAPTCHAS as diligently as I was hoping. Are there other > related add-ons that would make navigation with JAWS 10 easier? > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40n > bp.org > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From aguimaraes at nbp.org Mon Apr 27 20:05:49 2009 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:05:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> Message-ID: <337204513F3544328176154F26E2D77D@nbp2.local> The swine flue has killed in the united states, in places like new York and Texas. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 20. aguimaraes at nbp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the > United states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In large > gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think that's why > Jim brought it up. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Angela fowler" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > >> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >> talking >> about? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Beth >> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. >> We >> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >> Anybody >> remember that? >> Beth >> >> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>> e%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 20:40:18 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:40:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] P.S. Questions About FireFox Message-ID: <7F7FC54286724DAFAFB556B04CC6A8A5@Rufus> Antonio, It seems I spoke to soon. It was working there for a while, but now the cursor gravitates to the bottom of the web page rather than the top. Again, this only happens when you Alt Tab back into a page. I wonder if Window Eyes has a similar problem? You know, sometimes I wish JAWS were a little human. I'd smack him around I would. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: Joe Orozco [mailto:jsorozco at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 4:04 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: RE: [nabs-l] Questions About Firefox Hi Antonio, I downloaded the recent update for JAWS 10 earlier today. All is better now, though why the problem should have been there in the first place is beyond me. There are some components of Firefox that bug me, but overall I have to say the capacity to extend the browser to make customizations a huge benefit over its counterpart. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Guimaraes Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:53 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox Hello Joe, Firefox is a good browser, but not one without its bugs. The loss of cursor position is a jaws issue I wrote to freedom scientific about, and that they are aware of. Doesn't hurt for them to hear from one more consumer, if you want to send their tech support a quick message. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 20. aguimaraes at nbp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "NFB-Web" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Questions About FireFox > Hello all, > > I've reluctantly switched to Firefox as my default browser, mostly > because it works better with my work assignments. It seems to work > well so far, but two questions for my Firefox experts: > > 1. When I alt tab out of, and back into, the Firefox browser my cursor > position is lost. The cursor jumps back to the top of the page. How > can I remedy this? > > 2. How do I close a single tab in the browser? I'm referring to the > equivalent of Control F4 that is true of other tab-oriented software. > > Thank you in advance for your assistance, and, WebVisum has not been > solving my CAPTCHAS as diligently as I was hoping. Are there other > related add-ons that would make navigation with JAWS 10 easier? > > Best, > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40n > bp.org > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 27 20:58:12 2009 From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:58:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] swine flu outbreak In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hello, I wouldn't be worried at all cause the flu is nothing new to me since I get it often. + the public is so consumed into buying into whatever the government has to say in the news as a type of sensationalism. I feel that this causes a great gap in the economy by the loss of business profits and many people being scarcely played due to closings of work places and intense fear of being sick. Not only the economy suffers from losses, but children are being deprived of having a much more valuable education in Mexico because schools are closed due to the fear of epidemics there as well as numerous strikes in terms of salaries and laborers etc. Also, I think this is a hoax that the government is trying to place on the media in order to further deepen the current economic recession which is causing the economy to get fragile. also it seems to me that the medical community is doing all kinds of experiments in laboratories by creating viruses and using them as pranks in order to fool the public. I am not trying to sound like a person who is to idealistic, but the point that I am trying to convey here is that this so called epidemic of the flu is just a part of another drama experiment that is made by the government to put everyone including the cdc in an uproar. we are not in 1918 where the flu has killed millions of people, we are in 2009 where medicine is advanced and there are a lot of options for those who want prevention against the flu. and to make it worse, I think that having face masks on all the time is ridiculous especially when going to public churches and stuff because you get sick anyway so there is no point. same thing for the salmonella outbreak on the pistachios which was yet another cause of huge drama followed by losses of millions of dollars of profits in ice cream companies, as well as those who are in charge of the distribution of such products. until further tests or any other strong evidence is confirmed about those cases of any kind of ailments caused by recalled products or any epidemic that has been tested fore, I will ignore the whole biased sensationalism. I still ate them and did not get sick so what are they trying to prove here. I have had the flu tons of times, even in the summer, why are people so hysterical and making a big scene out of that, its no different. I just hope I am not bashing anyone or being rude, and if I offended some people, I sincerely apologize for that. But, it is my personal opinion. so if I were to choose over walking around with masks on just because I heard about a supposed outbreak of the swine flu, I would ignore it, but if everyone else wants to buy on what the government wants the public to hear, well go ahead it is up to everyone. everyone has there own choice and the right to make any decision. so, if I were to travel to Mexico with friends or family, I would still go on a nice summer vacation. I hope everything goes well and that everyone does good on finals and stays healthy and that I haven't caused any type of heated arguments. Thank you very much. Good day, From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 21:12:26 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:12:26 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> References: <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> Message-ID: <20090427211226.GE27471@yumi.bluecherry.net> Something's always spreading. Take precautions, that is all. Joseph On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:12:21AM -0400, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the > United states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In > large gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think > that's why Jim brought it up. > > Ashley From arielle71 at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 21:25:12 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:25:12 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <337204513F3544328176154F26E2D77D@nbp2.local> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com> <9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab> <7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> <337204513F3544328176154F26E2D77D@nbp2.local> Message-ID: Hi all, I just wanted to send out a friendly reminder that this list is very high-traffic, and people have to sift through a lot of messages, so please ensure your posts are list-relevant. Specifically, posts should directly relate to blindness and/or student issues. Discussions of the swine flu outbreak are fine, but please carry them out on listservs devoted to this purpose, or among yourselves off-list. Respectfully, Arielle Silverman First Vice-President, NABS On 4/28/09, Antonio Guimaraes wrote: > The swine flue has killed in the united states, in places like new York and > Texas. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > National Braille Press > 1800 548-read, ext 20. > aguimaraes at nbp.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > >> Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the >> United states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In large >> >> gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think that's why >> >> Jim brought it up. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angela fowler" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> >>> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >>> talking >>> about? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >>> >>> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. >>> We >>> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >>> Anybody >>> remember that? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>>> e%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 27 21:25:43 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 14:25:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] the flu Message-ID: <646893.39389.qm@web65712.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, Making a plan for the convention regarding this flu outbreak doesnt have to be an involved process; it could be as simple as placing a phone call to the CDC to hear their advise; my guess is the CDC would advise that people with flu symptons stay home and call their doctor (probably good advise anyway). Planning does not equal panic; in fact, its just the opposite. Furthermore, just because you make a plan, that doesnt mean you have to implement it. But if a situation arises where you need to implement the plan, will be glad you had made those plans in advance, rather than having to act on the fly. Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 22:06:49 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:06:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention In-Reply-To: <337204513F3544328176154F26E2D77D@nbp2.local> References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab><7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley> <337204513F3544328176154F26E2D77D@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <33F7872F19EC4A8CA353BEAEBDE10B86@Jessica> Antonio, Get your information correct before you start assuming that it has killed people. I'm currently listening to Capital News Nine which is our local 24 hour news station in Albany New York. And, so far all the cases have been mild meaning that everyone whom has had it has recovered from it. I'm only about 80 miles or so from New York City. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > The swine flue has killed in the united states, in places like new York > and Texas. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > National Braille Press > 1800 548-read, ext 20. > aguimaraes at nbp.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > >> Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the >> United states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In >> large gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think >> that's why Jim brought it up. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Angela fowler" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> >>> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >>> talking >>> about? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Beth >>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >>> >>> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be worried. >>> We >>> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >>> Anybody >>> remember that? >>> Beth >>> >>> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>>> Hello all, >>>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>>> e%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 22:38:19 2009 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza C) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:38:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: New Service to Download RFB&D DAISY books (AudioPlus) In-Reply-To: <0A7E5DAE0B864F92844BB2740305E0AE@angelab> References: <0A7E5DAE0B864F92844BB2740305E0AE@angelab> Message-ID: <632092010904271538od53e4f0w9eb22a1de970d29@mail.gmail.com> Does this include the Victor Streem? On 4/27/09, Angela fowler wrote: > Thought you'd be interested in this. > > Subject: New Service to Download RFB&D DAISY books (AudioPlus) > > I just received some exciting news about RFB&D's new download service and > wanted to share with everyone. > > RFB&D has just added a new service for members to download full (AudioPlus) > DAISY books from their library, making it the first group to offer full > audio DAISY textbooks online. > > This means that members can go to RFB&D's website to search for and download > a RFB&D DAISY book, and play it on their own authorized DAISY player. This > gives members instant access to RFB&D's large library of books. This is > major step forward from the current method of receiving DAISY books by mail. > > Please share this news with any interested parties. > > More information can be found at: > http://www.rfbd.org/audioplus/index.htm > http://support.rfbd.org/audioplus/ > > Frequently Asked Questions about new Download service > http://support.rfbd.org/audioplus/faq.htm#q2-3 > > Support about AudioPlus download service > http://support.rfbd.org/audioplus/contact.htm > > > Sam Ogami > Accessible Technology Expert > CSU Office of the Chancellor > (562) 951-4201 voice > (562) 951-4925 fax > sogami at calstate.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com > From nrh_lists at n-republic.net Mon Apr 27 23:11:17 2009 From: nrh_lists at n-republic.net (Nehemiah Hall) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:11:17 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [nfbwnews] FW: Great Educational Opportunity Message-ID: <3833272518A3437E85BC7B28336422C5@lab.ccbdenver.org> I don't know anything about this other than what's in this message. Just thought some might find of use. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schneider, Katherine S." To: "'National Federation of the Blind of Wisconsin News List'" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:41 Subject: [nfbwnews] FW: Great Educational Opportunity > Know anybody ready to start on a Master's in business? This would be a > great opportunity. Kathie > -----Original Message----- > From: careerconnect at googlegroups.com > [mailto:careerconnect at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Baracco, Andrew W > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:29 PM > To: careerconnect at googlegroups.com > Subject: [CCMTM] Great Educational Opportunity > > > > > > THIS MESSAGE IS SENT ON BEHALF > > OF > > BROTHER ROBERT ROBINSON > > Greetings Brothers, > > I wanted to let you know about a great opportunity here at Wake Forest > where you can get a FREE education and get PAID while you're doing it.. > Our Dean of the Schools of Business is the former CEO of PepsiCo and very > committed to diversity. He's gone around to his CEO friends, who have > agreed to donate a bunch of money to pay tuition and fees, provide a > stipend, and a job, to diverse students. The details are below. The > problem is, response to the program has been dismal! As a faculty member, > I would be embarrassed for him to have to tell his CEO friends, "thanks so > much for your donation, but unfortunately I have to give it back because > we couldn't find any students who wanted it." > > So, I need your help. Please contact me if you, or ANYONE you know is > interested in the program. I want to take advantage of it and help out > as many young scholars as I can. Don't worry about whether or not you (or > they) have taken the GMAT, etc. All you need to do at this point is > JUST APPLY. In business, you have to act when the opportunity is > presented, and that is now. > > The Master of Art in Management program is designed specifically for > liberal arts majors only. The MA degree program is a 10 month intense > study of the basic functional areas of business. After graduation and > working for approximately two years, all MA graduates are eligible to > apply to Wake Forest as part of the MA/MBA joint degree program and get > the MBA in one year. The new Dean, Steve Reinemund, has created a new > scholarship for diverse students pursuing the MA degree called the > Corporate Fellowship. > > The Corporate Fellowship provides full tuition and a $21,000 stipend to > cover living expenses. Additionally, each Corporate Fellow will > participate in a practicum. The practicum has two components, > educational and professional development. Each student will be > assigned a mentor that is a high level executive with their sponsor > corporation. The mentor will oversee an educational project covering 4 of > the functional areas of business using their own corporation as the > subject. The student will visit the corporation 3 - 4 times during the > program to present his/her results of their research project. > > Additionally, the "Professional Development" component of the fellowship > provides career coaching and leadership development for the students. The > goal for the corporation is to be able to groom and hopefully, hire a top > candidate from a diverse background for their organization. Of course, > there is no obligation that the students accept any offer of employment. > Still, the student benefits, even if they are not ultimately hired by > their sponsor corporation in that they have the MA degree and > the type of experience that will make them more marketable. > > Wake Forest University has an opportunity for minority students to attend > their MBA program for FREE, and so far, the response has been very poor. > Please, please pass along this opportunity to your friends, > families, and networks to see if there is an interest. > > This is a great school and a tremendous opportunity to attend a top > graduate school. See details below. > > The contact person for anyone who is interested is: > > Derrick S. Boone, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Marketing > Room 3139 Worrell Professional Center > Babcock Graduate School of Management > Wake Forest University > 1834 Wake Forest Drive > Winston-Salem , NC 27109-8758 > derrick.boone at mba.wfu.edu > > p 336.758.4475 > f 336.758.4514 > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CareerConnect Mentor to Mentor" group. To post to this group, send email > to careerconnect at googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send > email to careerconnect+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/careerconnect?hl=en > -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~--- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 > 06:19:00 > > _______________________________________________ > nfbwnews mailing list > nfbwnews at nfbwis.org > http://mail.nfbwis.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbwnews_nfbwis.org > From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net Mon Apr 27 23:38:51 2009 From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:38:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] swine flu outbreak References: Message-ID: <7DA8E5E5D24046869F51281390772721@usore540475a8f> You couldn't have said it any better then me. I listened to Glenn Beck and many others about this very topic. They are all sayng "Don't pannick." My dad Is one of the most neurotic person when it comes to disease. He buys in to very thing the government says about illness. He bought masks and other things. I thought this was silly. However, that said, we need to be prepared and carry around hand sanitizer and things we do every day. I'm not going to worry about getting the flew at the convention just because the government and the media is making such an issue out of this. "You say, Son, let's forget the past, I want another chance, gonna make it last. You're begging me for a brand new start, trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart, but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche ----- Original Message ----- From: "priscilla" To: Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] swine flu outbreak > > hello, > I wouldn't be worried at all cause the flu is nothing new to me since I > get it often. > + the public is so consumed into buying into whatever the government has > to say in the news as a type of sensationalism. > I feel that this causes a great gap in the economy by the loss of > business profits and many people being scarcely played due to closings of > work places and intense fear of being sick. > Not only the economy suffers from losses, but children are being deprived > of having a much more valuable education in Mexico because schools are > closed due to the fear of epidemics there as well as numerous strikes in > terms of salaries and laborers etc. > Also, I think this is a hoax that the government is trying to place on the > media in order to further deepen the current economic recession which is > causing the economy to get fragile. > > also it seems to me that the medical community is doing all kinds of > experiments in laboratories by creating viruses and using them as pranks > in order to fool the public. > I am not trying to sound like a person who is to idealistic, but the > point that I am trying to convey here is that this so called epidemic of > the flu is just a part of another drama experiment that is made by the > government to put everyone including the cdc in an uproar. > we are not in 1918 where the flu has killed millions of people, we are in > 2009 where medicine is advanced and there are a lot of options for those > who want prevention against the flu. > and to make it worse, I think that having face masks on all the time is > ridiculous especially when going to public churches and stuff because you > get sick anyway so there is no point. > same thing for the salmonella outbreak on the pistachios which was yet > another cause of huge drama followed by losses of millions of dollars of > profits in ice cream companies, as well as those who are in charge of the > distribution of such products. > until further tests or any other strong evidence is confirmed about those > cases of any kind of ailments caused by recalled products or any epidemic > that has been tested fore, I will ignore the whole biased sensationalism. > I still ate them and did not get sick so what are they trying to prove > here. > I have had the flu tons of times, even in the summer, why are people so > hysterical and making a big scene out of that, its no different. > I just hope I am not bashing anyone or being rude, and if I offended some > people, I sincerely apologize for that. > But, it is my personal opinion. > so if I were to choose over walking around with masks on just because I > heard about a supposed outbreak of the swine flu, I would ignore it, but > if everyone else wants to buy on what the government wants the public to > hear, well go ahead it is up to everyone. > everyone has there own choice and the right to make any decision. > so, if I were to travel to Mexico with friends or family, I would still go > on a nice summer vacation. > > I hope everything goes well and that everyone does good on finals and > stays healthy and that I haven't caused any type of heated arguments. > > Thank you very much. > > Good day, > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/commanderlumpy2003%40earthlink.net > From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 00:24:16 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:24:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] precalc In-Reply-To: <66FAFC48EEE2431A994225E590BCB56D@consumer281f9d> References: <66FAFC48EEE2431A994225E590BCB56D@consumer281f9d> Message-ID: Hi Christopher! I'm a freshman at Emory University. while I have been fortunate to skip math this year, i did take calculus AP in high school.So, I'm really familiar with all the dirty tricks and short cuts out there. The one thing I would recommend if you are a braille reader, is to beg your college to provide the math books in braille. they could hire a private transcriber to get that done, that way graphs and such will not be such a problem. Pre-Calc has a lot of graphs curve analysis, so I really highly suggest getting those books in a format that you can physically look at. Contact me off list with more specfic questions. Mary On 4/27/09, Christopher Kchao wrote: > Hi all, > I intend on taking precalculus during an eight week summer session > starting in early June. So far, I've taken college algebra and have worked > with readers and books from RFB&D. For things like exams, I use a brailler > and then dictate all my work and answers to the reader/scribe. This has > proven to work fairly well, excluding the chaos factor when describing > graphs and other things of a visual nature. > If there's anybody on here who has taken precalculus and could offer me some > pointers from a practical standpoint (methods for taking notes, shortcuts, > etc), I'd be very interested in connecting with you, provided that final > exams aren't completely taking over your lives. > Thanks > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 28 00:29:05 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:29:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] swine flu outbreak References: Message-ID: <102EC8F7021F40C8B288EA69E071AC71@Ashley> Hi Priscilla, I do not think you are facing reality. This flu virus is serious. It is not a hoax by the government. No it has not killed people yet in US but it has in Mexico. Mexico is struggling and I certainly understand if they closed schools. Yes the media is a bit sensational. But this is serious. You should be glad the government is doing what it can so the virus does not spread in the US. Yes we should not be fearful and go live our lives. But when there is flu going around take precautions such as watching hands often. As to national convention, if its held, go if you planned to. But with large crowds comes more risk of viruses. I urge you to take precautions for your health if you attend the convention. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "priscilla" To: Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] swine flu outbreak > > hello, > I wouldn't be worried at all cause the flu is nothing new to me since I > get it often. > + the public is so consumed into buying into whatever the government has > to say in the news as a type of sensationalism. > I feel that this causes a great gap in the economy by the loss of > business profits and many people being scarcely played due to closings of > work places and intense fear of being sick. > Not only the economy suffers from losses, but children are being deprived > of having a much more valuable education in Mexico because schools are > closed due to the fear of epidemics there as well as numerous strikes in > terms of salaries and laborers etc. > Also, I think this is a hoax that the government is trying to place on the > media in order to further deepen the current economic recession which is > causing the economy to get fragile. > > also it seems to me that the medical community is doing all kinds of > experiments in laboratories by creating viruses and using them as pranks > in order to fool the public. > I am not trying to sound like a person who is to idealistic, but the > point that I am trying to convey here is that this so called epidemic of > the flu is just a part of another drama experiment that is made by the > government to put everyone including the cdc in an uproar. > we are not in 1918 where the flu has killed millions of people, we are in > 2009 where medicine is advanced and there are a lot of options for those > who want prevention against the flu. > and to make it worse, I think that having face masks on all the time is > ridiculous especially when going to public churches and stuff because you > get sick anyway so there is no point. > same thing for the salmonella outbreak on the pistachios which was yet > another cause of huge drama followed by losses of millions of dollars of > profits in ice cream companies, as well as those who are in charge of the > distribution of such products. > until further tests or any other strong evidence is confirmed about those > cases of any kind of ailments caused by recalled products or any epidemic > that has been tested fore, I will ignore the whole biased sensationalism. > I still ate them and did not get sick so what are they trying to prove > here. > I have had the flu tons of times, even in the summer, why are people so > hysterical and making a big scene out of that, its no different. > I just hope I am not bashing anyone or being rude, and if I offended some > people, I sincerely apologize for that. > But, it is my personal opinion. > so if I were to choose over walking around with masks on just because I > heard about a supposed outbreak of the swine flu, I would ignore it, but > if everyone else wants to buy on what the government wants the public to > hear, well go ahead it is up to everyone. > everyone has there own choice and the right to make any decision. > so, if I were to travel to Mexico with friends or family, I would still go > on a nice summer vacation. > > I hope everything goes well and that everyone does good on finals and > stays healthy and that I haven't caused any type of heated arguments. > > Thank you very much. > > Good day, > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4038 (20090427) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue Apr 28 00:30:25 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:30:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention References: <745159.69727.qm@web65706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com><4383d01d0904261855v3282e600o9980178dad17ca40@mail.gmail.com><9D41353A8CE54A35AE5861F8F7915314@angelab><7FDE51704D764A44872FDF43F8EFF912@Ashley><337204513F3544328176154F26E2D77D@nbp2.local> <33F7872F19EC4A8CA353BEAEBDE10B86@Jessica> Message-ID: <6F545963F1E0411782037992C25C5F8E@Ashley> Jessica, That's right! Thankfully it has not killed anyone yet! I urge everyone to listen to the news and keep abreast of this situation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jess" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > Antonio, > Get your information correct before you start assuming that it has killed > people. I'm currently listening to Capital News Nine which is our local 24 > hour news station in Albany New York. And, so far all the cases have been > mild meaning that everyone whom has had it has recovered from it. I'm only > about 80 miles or so from New York City. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio Guimaraes" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 4:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention > > >> The swine flue has killed in the united states, in places like new York >> and Texas. >> >> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> National Braille Press >> 1800 548-read, ext 20. >> aguimaraes at nbp.org >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ashley Bramlett" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >> >> >>> Angela, its a flu outbreak from Mexico and has spread to parts of the >>> United states. It has killed some in Mexico but not the US yet. In >>> large gatherings there is more potential for it to spread and I think >>> that's why Jim brought it up. >>> >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Angela fowler" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 10:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >>> >>> >>>> At the risk of sounding totally ignorant, what the heck are you guys >>>> talking >>>> about? >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Beth >>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:56 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Swine flu outbreak and national convention >>>> >>>> Hmmmmm. I wouldn't be so worried. If it were 1918, I would be >>>> worried. We >>>> were really up in arms some years ago about the bird flu epidemic. >>>> Anybody >>>> remember that? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> If I was in charge of the NFB national convention, I would be paying >>>>> very close attention to, and be prepairing to respond to the recient >>>>> outbreak of the swine flu virus should things get much worse. In this >>>>> case, sharing isn't caring. >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloos >>>>> e%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syix.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4035 (20090425) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4038 (20090427) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 28 00:57:29 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Descriptions for the blind Message-ID: <913131.42916.qm@web65702.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hey all, I was just curious, for those of you who have visited national parks or other public lands that have interpretive displays: 1) Were you able to gain access to accessable formats? 2) Were those materials adaquate for you to feel you had a good grasp of what was going on around you? 3) In addition to the existing educational/interpretive materials, would additional written or audio descriptions of the area inhance your experience? (feel free to respond off list) possible thesis brewing...... Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us Tue Apr 28 01:05:11 2009 From: David.B.Andrews at state.mn.us (David B Andrews) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:05:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: SmartView Xtend video magnifier: a great tool in the classroom - save $695! Message-ID: >>> "HumanWare" 4/27/2009 11:04 AM >>> HumanWare logo SmartView Xtend: Size up your work to cuceed HumanWare is proud to announce that we are offering a second stimulation package to our educational accounts. Our first package announced was with our renowned myReader 2. The price was lowered from $4,995 to $3,995, which is a savings of $1,000. This special runs through September 30, 2009. Our second Stimulation package is with our flag ship Video Magnifier called the SmartView Xtend 19" color/auto focus unit. The retail price is $2,695 and our stimulation package is slashing the price to $2,000 which is a savings of $695. This special ends on July 1, 2009. The SmartView Xtend is a great tool in the classroom for a child with vision impairments. Handouts and books don't have to be enlarged with a copier or ordered in large print, as the Xtend can magnify over 50 times what is viewed instantly, helping the child and the teacher save time. In a Special Day Class, the Xtend can be customized for each student, with its programmable high-contrast colors and preset zoom button. It can also help distance viewing on the blackboard in both environments, by plugging in any camcorder. Finally, its modularity and upgradeability make it perfect for the school or district to order what they need today, but have the option to add more features as needs of the school or children change. There are several other configurations of the SmartView Xtend. If you desire further information, please visit our website at: www.humanware.com. If you would like a demonstration of this product feel free to call our toll free number, 1-800-722-3393 (hit #3 for customer service). Thank you for your continued interest in HumanWare's products for blind, low vision and learning disabilities. ©2007 HumanWare. Unsubscribe from this newsletter. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 732804c.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 108707 bytes Desc: not available URL: From outreach at nfb.org Tue Apr 28 01:18:47 2009 From: outreach at nfb.org (Kevan Worley) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:18:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Make A Promise - Change A Life With A Dollar Message-ID: Did you know? YOU can change a life with a promise and a dollar? The National Federation of the Blind (NFB) Imagination Fund is launching a mini March for Independence campaign to support our Braille literacy initiatives, local and national outreach efforts, and the educational programs of the NFB Jernigan Institute. How it works: When you JOIN the Every Member, Every Friend Match Campaign you PROMISE to support the campaign with a $120 PROMISE (a dollar a day or $30 per month for the next four months) paid in flexible (options everyone can afford) automatic monthly installments deducted from your checking account or billed to your credit card. Then: YOU get just ONE OTHER PERSON to MATCH your PROMISE with the same flexible, personalized, automatic payment schedule. What Do You Get? When you make a promise and get only ONE match, we'll throw in your March for Independence t-shirt! More matches will get additional March incentives! Many of us have not yet started fundraising for the March for Independence! NOW IS THE TIME! DON'T DELAY! JOIN THE CAMPAIGN NOW! I'd like MORE INFORMATION From m1receive at rfbd.org Tue Apr 28 01:27:53 2009 From: m1receive at rfbd.org (RFB&D Member Update) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:27:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introducing downloadable AudioPlus! Message-ID: RFB&D members banner Click here to view this email as a web page Now RFB&D’s AudioPlus® DAISY books are just a download away! Dear Member, Formerly available on CD only, RFB&D’s AudioPlus books offer the variable speed, bookmarking and navigational features you count on and are now downloadable. No worries about CD mailings, storage or returns. All of our 50,000 books are now available to you in downloadable DAISY format. Getting started is easy! Simply visit the AudioPlus support website or call 800-221-4792 for further details and assistance. Plus, expanded 24/7 service and support We are delighted to inform you that we are moving to 24/7 member service and support. Now, RFB&D provides you direct and instant access to our products, educator tools and member services and support. RFB&D is committed to providing you with the same excellent service you have come to expect at www.rfbd.org, by contacting custserv at rfbd.org or calling member services at 800-221-4792. We look forward to continue serving your future needs. Sincerely, RFB&D This is a commercial message. If you would prefer not to receive further announcements from RFB&D, please click on the following link. Unsubscribe -PVTL:enUS: QjFRBFpoBnAJ++t2JgJGzs- © 2009, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, Incorporated. All rights reserved. 20 Roszel Road, Princeton, NJ 08540 Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic®, RFB&D®, AudioPlus®, Learning Through Listening®, the Heart and Headphones design, and all trademarks and service marks are owned by Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic, Incorporated. From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 02:04:07 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:04:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements Message-ID: <3CC59F73A7E6421AB5C86A4369D7EBD0@Rufus> Hello all, Please find on NABSLink right now a copy of the materials distributed at a student leadership seminar held at the National Center for the Blind. The leadership seminar was a weekend devoted to cultivating state student divisions through the development of strong leadership, and the materials are a follow-up packet to help participants take what they learned and build the momentum. Whether you were there or not, you are going to want to click on the link below: 1) because the materials are an essential tool to expanding your understanding of our parent organization and translating that knowledge to the development of your division; and 2) because there is tangible evidence on this page that the people in NABS know how to have a good time while teaching valuable lessons. Please see below for the link. The second announcement is a call for social networking junkies. If you break out in hives from being away from Facebook for too long, if you could write your own curriculum on how to do everything from friending to tweeting, and if the mere thought of being able to do all this as a transferable skill to your resume makes you practically leap from your seat, let me know. NABSLink wants to put you in charge of managing the division's social networking initiative. We're looking for someone who could bring the era of social networking to NABS in a fun and dynamic way that promotes the organization to larger audiences. We're looking for someone who can help NABSLink expand in leaps and bounds across the Internet beyond the boundaries of the main site. Please contact me off-list if you're interested in joining a different front of the web development team. This is but one more way you too can become involved in the student division at the national level. Regards, Joe Orozco Leadership Seminar 2009: http://nabslink.org/resources/leadership2009.shtml "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ebell at latech.edu Tue Apr 28 02:39:00 2009 From: ebell at latech.edu (Edward Bell) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:39:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Registration now open for the 2009 8th annual Rehab conference Message-ID: The Future is Ours and Theirs! Bridging the Gap between Parents and Professionals Who: Parents of Blind Children and Professionals in the Blindness Field What: A joint conference between the NOPBC, NBPCB, NABRP, and PDRIB to bring parents and families together with professionals who work in the area of rehabilitation and education. When: Friday, July 3, 2009 7:45 a.m. ­ 6:30 p.m. Where: Ambassador Ballroom, Renaissance Hotel, Detroit, Michigan Come and be a part of this first ever, joint conference that brings families of youth who are blind or visually impaired together with professionals who work in the field of education and rehabilitation of the blind. Break out sessions will be held to address topics unique to parents, as well as special interests for professionals. a.. Children talk with Dr. Maurer b.. NBPCB awards luncheon for rehabilitation professionals c.. Mix and mingle networking reception d.. NOPBC hospitality reception Schedule 7:45 a.m. - 8:45 a.m. Registration and coffee 8:45 a.m. - 11:50 a.m. Bridging the Gap between Parents and Professionals 12:00 p.m. - 2:00 p.m. NBPCB and Rehab luncheon 2:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. Breakout sessions. Special topic sessions will be held for parents, O&M, and rehabilitation professionals 5:00 p.m. - 6:30 p.m. Networking mix and mingle reception Online registration is now available for this conference. Go to the following link to register: http://www.nbpcb.org/pages/conferences.php Cost: $100 professionals; $75 students Registration includes Banquet Lunch Sponsored by: National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC) National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB) National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals (NABRP) Professional Development and Research Institute on Blindness (PDRIB) From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Apr 28 03:22:36 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 03:22:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements In-Reply-To: <3CC59F73A7E6421AB5C86A4369D7EBD0@Rufus> Message-ID: <743782801.2593061240888956932.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello joe, thanks for sending this news to the list. as to the link in the area to download the necessary documents well, i went to the link to do do this and it didn't do it for me. it said that the page was still under construction. did i do something wrong or what happened there? i also went to click the link to view a viedo from the seminar to watch it which was put onutube and when i went to view it there wasn't any sound there? am i doing something wrong perhaps??? thanks again and i will talk to you soon! hugs, from amy sabo ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Orozco To: 'Arizona Students' , 'California Students' , 'Colorado Center' , 'Colorado Students' , 'Florida Students' , 'Illinois Students' , 'Kansas Students' , 'Kentucky Students' , 'Louisiana Students' , 'Michigan' , 'Minnesota Students' , 'Missouri' , 'National' , 'Nebraska' , 'New Hampshire Students' , 'New Jersey Students' , 'North Carolina Students' , 'Ohio' , 'Pennsylvania' , 'Presidents' , 'TABS Students' , 'Tennessee Students' , 'Utah Students' , 'Virginia Students' Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:04:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements Hello all, Please find on NABSLink right now a copy of the materials distributed at a student leadership seminar held at the National Center for the Blind. The leadership seminar was a weekend devoted to cultivating state student divisions through the development of strong leadership, and the materials are a follow-up packet to help participants take what they learned and build the momentum. Whether you were there or not, you are going to want to click on the link below: 1) because the materials are an essential tool to expanding your understanding of our parent organization and translating that knowledge to the development of your division; and 2) because there is tangible evidence on this page that the people in NABS know how to have a good time while teaching valuable lessons. Please see below for the link. The second announcement is a call for social networking junkies. If you break out in hives from being away from Facebook for too long, if you could write your own curriculum on how to do everything from friending to tweeting, and if the mere thought of being able to do all this as a transferable skill to your resume makes you practically leap from your seat, let me know. NABSLink wants to put you in charge of managing the division's social networking initiative. We're looking for someone who could bring the era of social networking to NABS in a fun and dynamic way that promotes the organization to larger audiences. We're looking for someone who can help NABSLink expand in leaps and bounds across the Internet beyond the boundaries of the main site. Please contact me off-list if you're interested in joining a different front of the web development team. This is but one more way you too can become involved in the student division at the national level. Regards, Joe Orozco Leadership Seminar 2009: http://nabslink.org/resources/leadership2009.shtml "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net Tue Apr 28 06:32:52 2009 From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:32:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] another podcast Message-ID: <6398343B61B143148A73549562CEAE83@usore540475a8f> Hello folks. I have done a podcast. I owe you one sense I haven't done one sense the 16th of February. I talked about UTA and its paritransit program, audible traffic signals, and the Braille coin. Listen to the podcast at http://www.gcast.com/u/kevinmcfan "You say, Son, let's forget the past, I want another chance, gonna make it last. You're begging me for a brand new start, trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart, but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 12:18:31 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:18:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements In-Reply-To: <743782801.2593061240888956932.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <898639DA5CF6463682CEF473EA51FE26@Rufus> Hello Amy and all, Thanks for the notice. It works well on my end, but we'll be looking into why the zip folder may not be operating well for others. Also note that some of the YouTube videos require a little time to properly play when launched. They are all functioning, but I will embed the video on our site if it would make the start time quicker. Please keep me posted of anything you see wrong with the site in general! These issues need to be resolved as we make our way toward the second phase launch of the project, and we need fresh eyes and ears to keep us volunteers in line. Cordially, Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Sabo Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:23 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements hello joe, thanks for sending this news to the list. as to the link in the area to download the necessary documents well, i went to the link to do do this and it didn't do it for me. it said that the page was still under construction. did i do something wrong or what happened there? i also went to click the link to view a viedo from the seminar to watch it which was put onutube and when i went to view it there wasn't any sound there? am i doing something wrong perhaps??? thanks again and i will talk to you soon! hugs, from amy sabo ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Orozco To: 'Arizona Students' , 'California Students' , 'Colorado Center' , 'Colorado Students' , 'Florida Students' , 'Illinois Students' , 'Kansas Students' , 'Kentucky Students' , 'Louisiana Students' , 'Michigan' , 'Minnesota Students' , 'Missouri' , 'National' , 'Nebraska' , 'New Hampshire Students' , 'New Jersey Students' , 'North Carolina Students' , 'Ohio' , 'Pennsylvania' , 'Presidents' , 'TABS Students' , 'Tennessee Students' , 'Utah Students' , 'Virginia Students' Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 02:04:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements Hello all, Please find on NABSLink right now a copy of the materials distributed at a student leadership seminar held at the National Center for the Blind. The leadership seminar was a weekend devoted to cultivating state student divisions through the development of strong leadership, and the materials are a follow-up packet to help participants take what they learned and build the momentum. Whether you were there or not, you are going to want to click on the link below: 1) because the materials are an essential tool to expanding your understanding of our parent organization and translating that knowledge to the development of your division; and 2) because there is tangible evidence on this page that the people in NABS know how to have a good time while teaching valuable lessons. Please see below for the link. The second announcement is a call for social networking junkies. If you break out in hives from being away from Facebook for too long, if you could write your own curriculum on how to do everything from friending to tweeting, and if the mere thought of being able to do all this as a transferable skill to your resume makes you practically leap from your seat, let me know. NABSLink wants to put you in charge of managing the division's social networking initiative. We're looking for someone who could bring the era of social networking to NABS in a fun and dynamic way that promotes the organization to larger audiences. We're looking for someone who can help NABSLink expand in leaps and bounds across the Internet beyond the boundaries of the main site. Please contact me off-list if you're interested in joining a different front of the web development team. This is but one more way you too can become involved in the student division at the national level. Regards, Joe Orozco Leadership Seminar 2009: http://nabslink.org/resources/leadership2009.shtml "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4037 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo %40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4038 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4038 (20090427) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 16:22:20 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:22:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements References: <3CC59F73A7E6421AB5C86A4369D7EBD0@Rufus> Message-ID: <005201c9c81d$82ce3a50$2801a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I wanted to let you know that the videos worked for me. The first one got cut off during seen 2. I have not tried downloading the zip folder yet. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Arizona Students'" ; "'California Students'" ; "'Colorado Center'" ; "'Colorado Students'" ; "'Florida Students'" ; "'Illinois Students'" ; "'Kansas Students'" ; "'Kentucky Students'" ; "'Louisiana Students'" ; "'Michigan'" ; "'Minnesota Students'" ; "'Missouri'" ; "'National'" ; "'Nebraska'" ; "'New Hampshire Students'" ; "'New Jersey Students'" ; "'North Carolina Students'" ; "'Ohio'" ; "'Pennsylvania'" ; "'Presidents'" ; "'TABS Students'" ; "'Tennessee Students'" ; "'Utah Students'" ; "'Virginia Students'" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:04 PM Subject: [nabs-l] NABSLink Announcements > Hello all, > > Please find on NABSLink right now a copy of the materials distributed at a > student leadership seminar held at the National Center for the Blind. The > leadership seminar was a weekend devoted to cultivating state student > divisions through the development of strong leadership, and the materials > are a follow-up packet to help participants take what they learned and > build > the momentum. > > Whether you were there or not, you are going to want to click on the link > below: 1) because the materials are an essential tool to expanding your > understanding of our parent organization and translating that knowledge to > the development of your division; and 2) because there is tangible > evidence > on this page that the people in NABS know how to have a good time while > teaching valuable lessons. Please see below for the link. > > The second announcement is a call for social networking junkies. If you > break out in hives from being away from Facebook for too long, if you > could > write your own curriculum on how to do everything from friending to > tweeting, and if the mere thought of being able to do all this as a > transferable skill to your resume makes you practically leap from your > seat, > let me know. NABSLink wants to put you in charge of managing the > division's > social networking initiative. We're looking for someone who could bring > the > era of social networking to NABS in a fun and dynamic way that promotes > the > organization to larger audiences. We're looking for someone who can help > NABSLink expand in leaps and bounds across the Internet beyond the > boundaries of the main site. Please contact me off-list if you're > interested in joining a different front of the web development team. This > is but one more way you too can become involved in the student division at > the national level. > > Regards, > > Joe Orozco > > Leadership Seminar 2009: > > http://nabslink.org/resources/leadership2009.shtml > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4037 (20090427) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 28 22:17:43 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom Text question Message-ID: <410329.67254.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, I have fairly reciently switch from "color" mode to "yellow on black" for most of my academic-related computer use (Word, reading research, etc), it is just becoming too hard to stare at the normal color scheme for long periods of time without everything going cross-eyed and blurry. Out of a combination of mostly lazyness and a little necessity, I have more-and-more often left my computer on Black and yellow mode while using the internet for non-academic activities such as email and wasting time. However, when I leave it on Yellow and black mode, somethings on the internet become hard to see. For example, "hotlinks" which are normally displayed in blue text just completely disapear; I know something is there, but the computer doesnt display it. Other times, search bars do not show up. Is there any solution to these problems other than constaintly switching back-and-forth  between color modes? Thanks, Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From cassonw at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 02:11:51 2009 From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:11:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Zoom Text question In-Reply-To: <410329.67254.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <410329.67254.qm@web65701.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0904281911m5e652bcdidef1845ebbf6aa98@mail.gmail.com> I set the link color in my browser to green so they would show up bright in other color modes and be dark enough in normal color scheme. Bill On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > I have fairly reciently switch from "color" mode to "yellow on black" for > most of my academic-related computer use (Word, reading research, etc), it > is just becoming too hard to stare at the normal color scheme for long > periods of time without everything going cross-eyed and blurry. > > Out of a combination of mostly lazyness and a little necessity, I have > more-and-more often left my computer on Black and yellow mode while using > the internet for non-academic activities such as email and wasting time. > However, when I leave it on Yellow and black mode, somethings on the > internet become hard to see. For example, "hotlinks" which are normally > displayed in blue text just completely disapear; I know something is there, > but the computer doesnt display it. Other times, search bars do not show up. > Is there any solution to these problems other than constaintly switching > back-and-forth between color modes? > > Thanks, > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com > From jackson.dezman at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 03:35:46 2009 From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 22:35:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] window eyes 7.1 and aim Message-ID: Hello, Does anybody use AOL instant messenger with window eyes 7.1? If so, what version of AIM works with it? Thanks, Dezman From arielle71 at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 03:39:50 2009 From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:39:50 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE discrimination? In-Reply-To: <988594.61608.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <988594.61608.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi all, When I took the GRE in 2007, there was a Braille practice test available from ETS, and I think there still is. If you're a proficient Braille reader, this practice test can be tremendously helpful, at least for identifying your strengths and weaknesses and planning your study accordingly. Also, I believe that there is now a self-voicing computer-based GRE available, meaning that you can take the test independently on the computer without the need for a reader/scribe. Someone correct me if I am wrong about this. Arielle On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: > Hello all, > If you read my last post titled "GRE prep", you read that there is no > accessability software on the GRE testing computers, and no way to install > accesability software on the testing computers. This is crap! There is > absolutly no reason testing computers shouldnt/couldnt be set up to allow > for accesability software. As I said in my last message, I did not sign up > for an accomidated test, so I am not sure if the GRE has some way to allow > for accessable software to be used, all I know is there was no way to > install it on the testing computer. This may be something for the NABS to > look into... > > Jim > > "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com > From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 04:49:08 2009 From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Adrianne Dempsey) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 00:49:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise References: Message-ID: I apologize for this posting being late, but I hope you decided to go on the trip. I never went to Europe for school, but I spent six weeks traveling threw many of the countries in Europe. I can tell you what I know about that continent... Most of Europe has amazing public transportation. All of the Busses, trains, and trams talked and even if you don't speak the language if you know the name of the place your going you can usually pick that out. The countries that were former Soviet Union are a little less easy to navigate, but defanatly still doable. If you get lost most people I found are helpful. I don't know what all languages you speak but it is a good time to practice, most people their appreciate the effort even if your sentences are not perfect or even not full sentences. Also if all else fails, most people in Europe speak at least three languages, one of them is almost always English especially if it is someone our age. I did not have a GPS when I went, but if you have one I think it should be quite simple to get around. As far as the hotel, their will be workers their that speak English for sure, if tourist visit workers will speak English. I don't know about the presentations but I am sure if a class mate is their some one will tell you what is going on visually. I did not go on guided tours but if it is a group thing I bet you'll be fine. Good luck I hope everything go's well for you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "priscilla" To: Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] studying abroad advise > Dear all listers, > This is the second time I have this challenge when it cones to studying > abroad since the first time I planned it ahead did not work out because of > students backing out due to financial circumstances. > I already worked out with a friend who was really willing to go abroad > with me and she really liked the idea of going to Israel. > This time, I am going to Europe and traveling to Netherlands, Belgium, and > Brussels. > the dean met with me and my parents because my parents had concerns for me > being on the trip since it is the first time I would actually travel with > the school not counting the last time I planned another trip because it > never happened. > my situation is finding a close friend who can go because like I mentioned > in previous post, there will be visual tours, lectures, and also I need to > Hearn how to deal with being in the hotel. > The dean suggested mom going as a result but as a last resort. > I don' really like the idea of mom being with me at all times because of > the fact that I feel more comfortable being with other friends in social > settings, but most of my close friends already graduated so it does not > count anymore since they are no longer at school > I had a close friend who is going on the trip and although I explained to > her my situation, she still wanted to go and was glad to help me, she > unfortunately can't go because of family and financial hardships which was > pretty sad. > I tried talking to other friends to come and did explain my situation and > they already know, but again, they couldn't afford to study abroad because > of personal issues and the expenses not because they were afraid to help > me but they had other more complicated issues and are worse off than I am. > I even called my friend Valerie, but unfortunately she couldn't go because > she graduated already and she is starting med school pretty soon. > I am so frustrated because most of my friends who are glad to help can't > unfortunately due to other issues of there own and I have to depend on mom > as a last resort. > but here is another problem, mom recently transferred to another school to > teach and her employer is strict when it comes to long absences from work > that are a week's worth or more. > She called me up and told me "I am not sure I I will be able to go > because I have to talk to my employer and I don't really think they are > willing to give me the days I need to go on this trip with you, but I will > get moor information because I would like to go too." > I am glad that mom is supporting me on this trip and I thank god 1000 > times for having grateful parents really and wholeheartedly. > but, I am afraid she might interfere with the fact that I have to get used > to being with my friends and do other stuff with them as opposed to her > being with me all the time. > I understand she has very deep concerns but, I just don't feel too > comfortable being with mom while all my other friends are on the trip, but > this is my last resort since I don't really have anybody else for support. > So what do you all listers suggest please because I need to deposit the > money as soon as possible and the latest is this coming Monday unless they > cancel the trip which I am afraid because not many students are signing up > due to a bad economy thanks to president bush's plan for giving other > countries millions of dollars to be used in wars. > So, please reply to this post with any advice, I really appreciate it. > > Thank you very much > > Good day, > > Priscilla > Ps. I am starting to plan some days with my of m instructor to learn how > to travel on train because we might use that in Europe, and I am excited > to learn but it is very difficult since my classes overlap and I get > tutoring for my statistic course 4 days a week and have to use Fridays for > projects which I need help in. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 05:03:19 2009 From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Adrianne Dempsey) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 01:03:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] European universities References: <4383d01d0904241710h7716ec3ew2103d33b65709b27@mail.gmail.com><002901c9c542$88faeff0$0301a8c0@Serene><4383d01d0904241831x783c77d5t6e8c1e197ef4635@mail.gmail.com><001701c9c54c$e3aecd40$0301a8c0@Serene><49F28D3E.2040305@aol.com> Message-ID: <8D75139D4864402692D537DE6A9D4890@YOUR314E04A90B> Let me know where in Europe you plan to study. I have friends scattered threw out the continent, and perhaps I can give you contact information of some one in the country you wish to attend college in. I have no guarantees ofcourse as I do not have friends in every country, but it might be nice to have a contact their who knows the area. If the person does not live in that part of the country maybe they would know some one who does. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah J. Blake" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: [nabs-l] European universities >I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has studied at a European >university--or knows someone who has. I have considered this as a Ph.d. >option; but one of the questions I have is how to handle things like >getting oriented and arranging for other accommodations for very short-term >trips (two to three weeks) of extremely intensive study. I have good >blindness skills but do have some short-term memory loss due to other >neurological issues. I considered taking someone with me; but that involves >actually funding another ticket. The structure of a European program is >extremely appealing to me; but this is a significant question I have. > > Sarah J. Blake > Personal email: sjblake at growingstrong.org > http://www.growingstrong.org > > I'm protected by SpamBrave > http://www.spambrave.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail.com > From graduate56 at juno.com Wed Apr 29 05:40:42 2009 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 23:40:42 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE discrimination? References: <988594.61608.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <819847E3E68847898C5B15CB642283E9@melissa> Thanks for that info Arielle. I am nigotiating with my university about this test. They want me to take it and its at the end of my program. Its really rediculous. I am glad to know that there is a practice test and possibly other material in braille. I was told by ETS that I have to take the paper test and that is what I needed to register for. Have a blessed day. Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Facebook: Melissa Green northern colorado Skype: melissa5674 Messenger: graduate1531 at msn.com Twitter: melissa5674 Live journal: topaz5674 You must learn from the mistakes of others. You can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE discrimination? > Hi all, > > When I took the GRE in 2007, there was a Braille practice test > available from ETS, and I think there still is. If you're a proficient > Braille reader, this practice test can be tremendously helpful, at > least for identifying your strengths and weaknesses and planning your > study accordingly. > > Also, I believe that there is now a self-voicing computer-based GRE > available, meaning that you can take the test independently on the > computer without the need for a reader/scribe. Someone correct me if I > am wrong about this. > > Arielle > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If you read my last post titled "GRE prep", you read that there is no >> accessability software on the GRE testing computers, and no way to >> install >> accesability software on the testing computers. This is crap! There is >> absolutly no reason testing computers shouldnt/couldnt be set up to allow >> for accesability software. As I said in my last message, I did not sign >> up >> for an accomidated test, so I am not sure if the GRE has some way to >> allow >> for accessable software to be used, all I know is there was no way to >> install it on the testing computer. This may be something for the NABS to >> look into... >> >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Click now and enjoy a fantastic vacation in the wine country. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTHhwihw4kLr1Jb8RKjOmTGFl6iubVrP16xOI89ubySgKOcIWwTwCc/ From corbbo at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 14:26:10 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:26:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE discrimination? In-Reply-To: <819847E3E68847898C5B15CB642283E9@melissa> References: <988594.61608.qm@web65711.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <819847E3E68847898C5B15CB642283E9@melissa> Message-ID: <364C1571-915F-4600-8902-0EBBD26E6217@gmail.com> What ETS may have meant is that you cannot sign up for the self- voicing exam on the Internet, but rather need to complete that request on the paper form. You will also need to send proof of disability, but all of this information should be on the ETS website. On Apr 29, 2009, at 1:40 AM, Melissa Green wrote: Thanks for that info Arielle. I am nigotiating with my university about this test. They want me to take it and its at the end of my program. Its really rediculous. I am glad to know that there is a practice test and possibly other material in braille. I was told by ETS that I have to take the paper test and that is what I needed to register for. Have a blessed day. Sincerely, Melissa R. Green Facebook: Melissa Green northern colorado Skype: melissa5674 Messenger: graduate1531 at msn.com Twitter: melissa5674 Live journal: topaz5674 You must learn from the mistakes of others. You can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GRE discrimination? > Hi all, > > When I took the GRE in 2007, there was a Braille practice test > available from ETS, and I think there still is. If you're a proficient > Braille reader, this practice test can be tremendously helpful, at > least for identifying your strengths and weaknesses and planning your > study accordingly. > > Also, I believe that there is now a self-voicing computer-based GRE > available, meaning that you can take the test independently on the > computer without the need for a reader/scribe. Someone correct me if I > am wrong about this. > > Arielle > > On 4/26/09, Jim Reed wrote: >> Hello all, >> If you read my last post titled "GRE prep", you read that there is no >> accessability software on the GRE testing computers, and no way to >> install >> accesability software on the testing computers. This is crap! There >> is >> absolutly no reason testing computers shouldnt/couldnt be set up to >> allow >> for accesability software. As I said in my last message, I did not >> sign up >> for an accomidated test, so I am not sure if the GRE has some way >> to allow >> for accessable software to be used, all I know is there was no way to >> install it on the testing computer. This may be something for the >> NABS to >> look into... >> >> Jim >> >> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com ____________________________________________________________ Click now and enjoy a fantastic vacation in the wine country. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTHhwihw4kLr1Jb8RKjOmTGFl6iubVrP16xOI89ubySgKOcIWwTwCc/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From dkent5817 at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 29 18:43:40 2009 From: dkent5817 at worldnet.att.net (Deborah Kent Stein) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:43:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Looking for Stories about Inspiring Individuals Message-ID: Hi, Dave, Please post this to the NFB lists. It might be an opportunity for one or more Federationists to receive some well-deserved recognition and to spread the word about the abilities and achievements of blind people. Thanks! Debbie _______________ Looking for Stories about Inspiring Individuals Who do you know that deserves recognition for their efforts, sacrifices, and service to others? We are compiling stories in an upcoming book about individuals whose selfless devotion and accomplishments are inspiring, and whose enduring commitment is making this world a better place. Please tell us: · What did this person accomplish or is currently doing that you feel has made a difference for the better? · Was there a specific incident or turning point that compelled him or her to take action? · Is there anything else that you can tell us that makes him/her exceptional or unique? YOUR INFORMATION: Name: Email address: Phone: YOUR NOMINEE’S INFORMATION: Name: Email address: Phone: Website: The deadline to send us information is June 1, 2009. We hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, Katie Rountree russtree at aol.com and Jody Feagan jodyville at yahoo.com Jody Feagan Founder/Director San Miguel Writers' Conference & Workshops www.sanmiguelworkshops.com US Phone: 323/306/4068 Local # in San Miguel de Allende (Mexico): 152-0478 From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 29 19:43:39 2009 From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:43:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Study abroad advise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hello, I really appreciate your advice for the future if I ever decide to go abroad with a group. Unfortunately the trip to Europe has been canceled due to the effects of the economic crisis. the economic crisis has taken a toll on the school because most of the study abroad trips are being canceled due to lack of funds. I was very upset at first when I realized that the trip was canceled because that was my last chance to study abroad since I will graduate next year. when I spoke to mom and gave her the news about the cancelation she was upset too because she had the money already and had plans, but it never happened. this is the second time this happens at the school, why does it have to be this way. mom also said "you will get another opportunity to study abroad in the future or when you settle in with a good job," but I don't think so because it is not the same as doing it while in college and still young. this is why I want to start now because then I will outgrow the youth pretty soon and then its no more fun because what if I ever get married and have nice kids. so, I really want to do things now since I am still in the prime years of youth, meaning in college or grad school because you learn more easily. Actually certain areas of your brain don't stop developing until age 25, so that's why I need to take advantage of as much learning experiences so that when I become older, it wouldn't be as difficult to retain things at least in my personal opinion. once you get to a certain age, its hard to keep everything in your head unless I am wrong. anyway, I am sad by this unfortunate turn because that's the only opportunity I have in college once in a lifetime. "you can't fight against the current, even if you would like to." thank you all very much. From jim275_2 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 29 19:54:15 2009 From: jim275_2 at yahoo.com (Jim Reed) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] GRe computer accomidations Message-ID: <136316.26498.qm@web65713.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hello all, With regards to GRE computer accomidations, the accomidations seem to create  a disadvantage for blind (totals) students who choose to take the test on a computer. The fact that the GRE has its own generic voice system, (instead of the popular computer accessability program(s) used by blind students on a daily basis) means that blind students will have to learn the GRE system "on the fly", and this seems to suggest that they will be at an inherent disadvantage (especially in a timed test). If the goal of standardized testing is to remove as many variables as possible, unfamiliarity with GRE accomidations software seems to be a pretty large variable that has the potential to influence test results. I once again restate my idea that blind students should be able to use the accomidation software that best suits their needs; they should not be forced to choose between a Braille paper test or unfamiliar computer software. Thoughts? Jim "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed." From braille at nbpcb.org Wed Apr 29 20:50:11 2009 From: braille at nbpcb.org (Braille Certification) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:50:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Certification Announcement Message-ID: Hello Dave, The announcement which appears below and the attached document are to announce that testing for the National Certification in Literary Braille has been scheduled for Austin, Texas, Detroit, Michigan, Orangeburg, New York, and Albuquerque, New Mexico. National Blindness Professional Certification Board would like to announce that the NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) will be held on the following dates and locations: Austin, Texas Criss Cole Rehabilitation Center Friday, June 12, 2009 8:00am-5:00pm Detroit, Michigan Detroit Marriott Renaissance Center Saturday & Sunday, July 4-5, 2009 1:00pm-5:00pm Orangeburg, New York Dominican College Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:00am-5:00pm Albuquerque, New Mexico Albuquerque Grand Airport Hotel Saturday, Sept. 26, 2009 8:00am-5:00pm A combined application/testing fee of $250 applies. For updates, application deadlines, and to apply online go to: www.nbpcb.org/pages/announcements For additional information, please visit the NBPCB website at: www.nbpcb.org, or contact Louise Walch, NBPCB Coordinator, at (318) 257-4554 or braille at nbpcb.org. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Announcement NCLB 04-27-09.doc Type: application/msword Size: 33280 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aguimaraes at nbp.org Wed Apr 29 21:05:57 2009 From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:05:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] precalc References: <66FAFC48EEE2431A994225E590BCB56D@consumer281f9d> Message-ID: <2B5F3ADA24CF4EC0AC33CF706F8C202B@nbp2.local> hello Christopher, Braille, Braille, Braille, It sounds as though you might be on your way to a major that relies heavily on math. If so, you'll really need to get your hands on braille books. How else will you know the nemeth, and practice how to write your problems, and visualize the graphs? Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. National Braille Press 1800 548-read, ext 20. aguimaraes at nbp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Kchao" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:30 AM Subject: [nabs-l] precalc > Hi all, > I intend on taking precalculus during an eight week summer session > starting in early June. So far, I've taken college algebra and have worked > with readers and books from RFB&D. For things like exams, I use a brailler > and then dictate all my work and answers to the reader/scribe. This has > proven to work fairly well, excluding the chaos factor when describing > graphs and other things of a visual nature. > If there's anybody on here who has taken precalculus and could offer me > some > pointers from a practical standpoint (methods for taking notes, shortcuts, > etc), I'd be very interested in connecting with you, provided that final > exams aren't completely taking over your lives. > Thanks > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed Apr 29 22:12:54 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:12:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Study abroad advise References: Message-ID: <162A828769744E6DA6DFA03E1E72AAE6@Ashley> Hi Priscilla, Well, with all the trouble you had finding an assistant and the administration raising flags about liability, it doesn't sound like a fun way to start a trip. Now you don't have that hastle and can move on. I'm sure you're not the only upset one. All students who signed up were hoping for a great experience. I agree with your mother, that there will be other opportunities to study abroad. You can make that happen. No it will not be the same as in college. But you can do it while you're still a young adult like your 20s or 30s before marriage. You can still learn even though it won't be for course cridit. Learning should be life long. Enjoy college and its nice you're on the way to graduation. I wonder what you're studying. Ashley ill be other opportunities to study abroad ----- Original Message ----- From: "priscilla" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Study abroad advise > hello, > I really appreciate your advice for the future if I ever decide to go > abroad with a group. > Unfortunately the trip to Europe has been canceled due to the effects of > the economic crisis. > the economic crisis has taken a toll on the school because most of the > study abroad trips are being canceled due to lack of funds. > I was very upset at first when I realized that the trip was canceled > because that was my last chance to study abroad since I will graduate next > year. > when I spoke to mom and gave her the news about the cancelation she was > upset too because she had the money already and had plans, but it never > happened. > this is the second time this happens at the school, why does it have to be > this way. > mom also said "you will get another opportunity to study abroad in the > future or when you settle in with a good job," but I don't think so > because it is not the same as doing it while in college and still young. > this is why I want to start now because then I will outgrow the youth > pretty soon and then its no more fun because what if I ever get married > and have nice kids. > so, I really want to do things now since I am still in the prime years of > youth, meaning in college or grad school because you learn more easily. > Actually certain areas of your brain don't stop developing until age 25, > so that's why I need to take advantage of as much learning experiences so > that when I become older, it wouldn't be as difficult to retain things > at least in my personal opinion. > once you get to a certain age, its hard to keep everything in your head > unless I am wrong. > > anyway, I am sad by this unfortunate turn because that's the only > opportunity I have in college once in a lifetime. > "you can't fight against the current, even if you would like to." > > thank you all very much. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4043 (20090429) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Apr 30 03:53:50 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:53:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] precalc In-Reply-To: <2B5F3ADA24CF4EC0AC33CF706F8C202B@nbp2.local> References: <66FAFC48EEE2431A994225E590BCB56D@consumer281f9d> <2B5F3ADA24CF4EC0AC33CF706F8C202B@nbp2.local> Message-ID: <20090429235350.onjebxlm8o0csgk8@webmail.utoronto.ca> Hi there, Yes! Antonio is absolutely right. I'm majoring in actuarial science (primarily math) and Braille material is essential. This means that you need to find out the professors of your courses at least four months before the class starts, and get them to tell you what books they'll use. Your school should fund the cost of transcription of these books into Nemeth code, but it is your responsibility to find out what books you need, buy the print copies, and find out from your school where they need to be brought on campus to be either Brailled on site or sent away for brailling. If you've worked with Braille before you know how long transcription can take, so you MUST ACT QUICKLY. That was all in capital letters by the way, just in case you use JAWS like me. :) Good luck and don't hesitate to ask any further questions, and feel free to write me off list if you want. I'm happy to help in any way I can. Good luck, Sarah Quoting Antonio Guimaraes : > hello Christopher, > > Braille, Braille, Braille, > > It sounds as though you might be on your way to a major that relies > heavily on math. If so, you'll really need to get your hands on braille > books. How else will you know the nemeth, and practice how to write > your problems, and visualize the graphs? > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > National Braille Press > 1800 548-read, ext 20. > aguimaraes at nbp.org > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Kchao" > > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:30 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] precalc > > >> Hi all, >> I intend on taking precalculus during an eight week summer session >> starting in early June. So far, I've taken college algebra and have worked >> with readers and books from RFB&D. For things like exams, I use a brailler >> and then dictate all my work and answers to the reader/scribe. This has >> proven to work fairly well, excluding the chaos factor when describing >> graphs and other things of a visual nature. >> If there's anybody on here who has taken precalculus and could offer me some >> pointers from a practical standpoint (methods for taking notes, shortcuts, >> etc), I'd be very interested in connecting with you, provided that final >> exams aren't completely taking over your lives. >> Thanks >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca From jmassay1 at cox.net Thu Apr 30 18:47:53 2009 From: jmassay1 at cox.net (JMassay) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:47:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Accomodations Message-ID: <0819FC51911740BEBC8A60F06B1FFDF6@MERLIN> I took the GRE in the Summer of 2007 using JAWS. ETS did the scripting in order to make the entire test accessible. Before I took it , it was my understanding that prior versions only had the essay portion accessible in JAWS. At the time I took the test , there were still some odd "quirks" that they were supposedly going to fix. I haven't heard anything more about it. From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Thu Apr 30 23:36:15 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:36:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] attention span and concentration Message-ID: <000001c9c9ec$745e9430$5d1bbc90$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Hi NABS, I'm sitting here writing this to you after an entire day has passed with little work done. I have a million things to do in the next week, and need every minute of the time I have, but can't seem to stay focussed on a task for any length of time. My mind wanders too much or I find something else to do, often less urgent, to occupy my time. Any suggestions of things to do that would make focussing on one given task, and being motivated to do that task, easier for me? Thank you very much, Sarah