[nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?

Tue Apr 21 10:30:24 UTC 2009

Sarah,
I would say no. Because I've also done the same thing as you have to a 
certain degree. Pretty much all my work experience has been in the field of 
working with students with either visual impairment or working at a pre 
college prep program which is sponsored by the Commission for the Blind and 
VESID which is the general rehabilitation agency in New York State.. And, up 
until last year it was run by the Director of the Disability Resource Center 
at SUNY Albany. Basically had the opportunity to work with with young adults 
who were sponsored by their respective agency because their counselors felt 
that these students could use sometime to get used to being on a college 
campus before some of them would have started in some cases college the 
following fall semester.
Jessica
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Jevnikar" <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?


> hi all,
> I've been reading this discussion with interest. I have a question about
> disclosure though: my resume hints at my being blind, but it's almost
> unintentionally. I've worked for the Canadian National Institute for the
> Blind, and have some scholarships from organizations/groups with the words
> "blind" or "disability" in the name of the company or scholarship. This
> means that a potential employer may notice I have a disability before I 
> show
> up at the interview. I know that explicit disclosure on a resume/cover
> letter is discourage, but is this unintentional disclosure an issue too?
> Thank you,
> Sarah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Joe Orozco
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 8:14 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?
>
> Jim,
>
> I have some thoughts on how, and perhaps more importantly why, NABS should
> incorporate job readiness into its operation.  That's part of a longer
> dialogue I'll get around to later after the semester is over.  For now 
> I'll
> offer some thoughts that may help you in your current situation.
>
> Let me preface my comments by pointing out that job searching is never 
> easy,
> blind or sighted.  People, including myself, will give you a list of do's
> and don'ts, but ultimately it comes down to you, your innovative ideas, 
> your
> strengths and your own familiarity with the field you've chosen for
> yourself.  No two resumes are the same, and no two employers will share 
> the
> same views about what disability means for their expectations of the 
> vacancy
> in question.
>
> It is my personal opinion that too much attention is given to the ADA, the
> EEOC and all things special accommodations.  Some people I've met become 
> so
> infatuated with the legalities of finding a job and have become so 
> obsessed
> with the subject of potential discrimination and pay less attention to
> meeting the realistic expectations of the job itself.  I think it's
> important to know your rights, but it's quite a different matter when you
> allow yourself to become a textbook operator.  I think people run the risk
> of becoming paranoid of discrimination when sometimes there is education 
> to
> be had on both sides of the equation, both from the side of the potential
> employer and from the perspective of the applicant.
>
>>From a pragmatic perspective, if the employer is going to belittle you for
> having a disability, no law will change that person's view of your
> abilities.  If you feel you have been discriminated against, you could
> pursue legal action, but legal action takes time and in the meantime 
> you're
> still without a job.  My personal take on the subject is that you had 
> better
> be prepared to take your complaint all the way if you're going to complain
> at all.  Laws have been written to protect individuals from unfair hiring
> standards, but know that this protection comes at a price as much to you 
> as
> the applicant as well as the offending company.  While the legal 
> proceedings
> are moving forward, you must learn from the experience and understand how 
> to
> engage a better marketing strategy to emphasize your skills over your
> disability.
>
> So, my advice is to familiarize yourself with the myths of the ADA.
> Sometimes it is a far better tactic to understand what a law does not do
> rather than what it could do.  Understand the relationship between 
> yourself
> and the potential employer.  When you're applying for a job, you're asking
> to be allowed to be a member of their team.  Unnecessary emphasis on laws
> and regulations does not make you a team player.  It makes you a potential
> liability.  Keep pushing for the type of training you are advocating, but
> never mind the legalities of equal rights and special accommodations.
> There's nothing in that area that Google can't help you decipher in a
> well-spent half hour.  What is harder to teach is resume building,
> interviewing skills and the social etiquette that goes along with the 
> basic
> human interaction involved in these interviews.
>
> My opinion on self-disclosure has never changed on any of the jobs I have
> previously held and am currently pursuing.  If it's a blindness-related 
> job,
> it only makes sense to point out the fact that you are blind and could be 
> a
> direct benefit to the organization's mission.   Otherwise, there is no
> reason to bring it up in your cover letter or resume.  Some people balk at
> this idea.  The thought process is that stating the fact that you are 
> blind
> only helps to emphasize how much you have been able to accomplish despite
> your being blind.
>
> My response to that logic is that there is arrogance, and then there is
> confidence.  An arrogant man needs to write it down to prove a point.  A
> confident man allows those around him to arrive at this conclusion all by
> themselves.  If what our NFB philosophy says is true, that blindness is 
> only
> a characteristic, I am not going to be a hypocrite and make blindness a
> noteworthy point of interest in my credentials.  The hiring manager need 
> not
> know I am blind, no more than it is their business that I am a male or
> Hispanic or six feet tall.  Does this make things awkward when you first
> meet the interviewer?  Things are going to be awkward with or without
> advance notice.  The outcome of that interview comes down to how big of a
> deal you make of your blindness.  Writing in your cover letter or resume
> that you are blind only throws the ball in their court and lets them 
> decide
> how big of a deal it is to them.  When you hunt for a job, you cannot 
> afford
> to be idealistic and give people the benefit of the doubt that they will
> overlook their own personal misconceptions and biases.  Keep control of 
> the
> deck of cards as long as you can.
>
> Now, to your specific situation.  You do not have to respond to these
> points, but how many volunteer positions have you taken on in your field 
> of
> interest?  What, outside of academic studies, can you put on your resume
> that makes you stand out from the other candidates?  Are there internships
> offered by way of the agency you have applied to?  What did you learn from
> your interview last Thursday, and more importantly, what can you change
> about it as you move forward into your next potential interview?
>
> When I wrote the career section of the NABS web site I made sure the 
> notion
> of volunteer service was emphasized.  Many people get so overwhelmed by
> their failure to find a job and completely overlook the benefits of 
> national
> service as a means to jump start their career.  Yes, it may postpone that
> first "real" job, but it is an opportunity for you to build up your 
> network,
> your skills and familiarity with the field in question.  You may very well
> figure out that the job you you wanted was not at all what you expected.
>
> But, gauging from your writing, it would appear you are very much stubborn
> about going into public land management.  If this is true, this is me
> smacking you on the shoulder and telling you to go get it.  Do not be
> discouraged.  What I would ask you to do is fix your attitude about your
> visual abilities.  I'm reading your post about those things you can do 
> with
> the vision you have and those things you cannot do as much anymore.  Which
> is it?  Either you can do something or you cannot.  At some point you're
> going to have to get off the fence and develop your applicant profile
> according to those things you are completely confident about.  If you're
> waiting until the end of the interview to drop the shoe about something 
> you
> cannot do, you're making that the last impression, and if you sound half 
> as
> cautious in your post as you did in the interview, would you hire 
> yourself?
> So you can't drive.  Put that up front and spend the rest of the hour or 
> so
> developing arguments for why the interviewer would be stupid not to hire 
> you
> despite this fact.
>
> In my public administration degree back in undergrad there was a land use
> course I was obligated to take from our geography department.  I hated it,
> because we had to go out and survey neighborhoods.  I honestly had no idea
> there was so much importance given to the width and crown of a typical
> street and the distance between the street and somebody's porch.  I can 
> see
> how you're frustrated because I had to catch rides from my teammates to 
> get
> from neighborhood to neighborhood, but once we got there I did what I 
> could
> to support the other guys in terms of note taking to write our final 
> report.
>
> Keep a portfolio.  Show off samples of any reports and graphs you may have
> had a hand at producing.  Draw their attention away from the logistics and
> put it squarely on what you can do once you're at the site itself.  You're 
> a
> bad ass if they figure out how to get you there.  You convince me from the
> way you express yourself about it.  Now go out and convince them.
>
> I'm sorry I cannot offer you field-specific advice on how to go about 
> doing
> what you want to do.  I did not have to get far in my class that long ago
> spring semester to understand there was no way in hell I would be a land
> manager, but consider finding yourself a mentor in the field.  Are there 
> any
> associations you could join?
>
> Best of luck to you, and I hope my post was of at least minor benefit to
> you, and I love those 6 p's.  If they weren't so bold I'd ask Terri to let
> me include that on our web site.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Reed
> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 2:46 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Could the NABS host a "get a job" webinare series?
>
> Hello,
> I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in school to get a
> job. If others feel the same way, then I think it would be
> helpful for the NABS to use some of its resources putting
> together a series of Webinairs designed to teach us the most
> effective ways of getting and holding jobs as blind people. I
> don't know about you guys, but I really don't know anything
> about how the EOE, ADA, or other disability laws apply to me,
> or how I can use them to my advantage.
>
> I would suggest the NABS hire academics, proffessionals, and
> advocates to host webinars geared toward  disabuility
> employment issues. Some initial topic suggestions could be:
> 1. Reasonable accomidations
> 2. Disability law
> 3. disclosure stratagies
> 4. Public vs. private sector employment issues/stratagies 5.
> Other employment resources
>
> These are just a few ideas I came up with off the top of my
> head. I think such a project would be a perfect fit for the
> NABS, as it furthers the education of its student members, and
> it promotes vocational oppertunities for students to use their
> education.
>
> Jim
>
> "Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed."
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
> virus signature database 4018 (20090418) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
> virus signature database 4019 (20090418) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4019 (20090418) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4023 (20090420) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
> ronto.ca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com