From yvgarcia at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 00:03:20 2009
From: yvgarcia at gmail.com (Yolanda Garcia)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:03:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Mixer and Open Mike Night at Washington Seminar
References: <FAE8C7D0CAF4497B9A736DBE0537A7CE@yourdc685efcd2>
	<4983c88c.0807c00a.5b28.527e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <010a01c98400$7eef7ae0$6701a8c0@yolanda>

Hi Liz,

The NABS mixer is going to be Monday evening Feb 9 from 9:00 to 11:00. This 
way it gives everyone enough time to go out to eat prior to the event and 
won't run too late just in case you have appointments with representatives 
the next day. Hope you plan on coming! Limbo is going to be a blast!

Warmly,
Yolanda

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Liz Bottner" <liz.bottner at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Nabs Mixer and Open Mike Night at Washington Seminar


One question: what time will the mixer be held? To my knowledge, that one
all-important detail was left out of the email.

Thanks,

Liz

email:
liz.bottner at gmail.com
Visit my livejournal:
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/lizbot



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From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 00:14:58 2009
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:14:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
References: <7949e5e20901301519q4851cfdclb216143a15e97c97@mail.gmail.com><00ea01c983b9$9cacd290$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<20090131221702.GA16372@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <3DF11436ACBD4BC1AC0A27D04FFA3E59@Dezman>

Yeah, while I do agree that solutions should be made to dealing with 
capchas, I would say that it would be a little over the top to take a social 
networking site to the courts over the matter.

Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter


> Peter, what's to stop them is that the fact that blind people use the site 
> with sighted assistance is irrelevant.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 09:35:55AM -0600, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>Hello Linda and listers,
>>
>>It's also possible to invite Myspace and facebook contacts to join us on 
>>non-CAPTCHA Social Networks. And furthermore what's to stop these  folks 
>>from arguing against us in court saying that, "Despite our use of CAPTCHAS 
>>you folks still find ways to use our services so why should we change 
>>things?" Has anyone contemplated that possibility?
>>
>>    I know of two social sites which I've set up accounts on that don't 
>> require the use of any visual verification. They are www.linkedin.com and 
>> www.instantspot.com. If we're going to create presences on these networks 
>> why hasn't the NFB gotten "Linked In" or "Spotted?" This is a means to 
>> and end that could backfire on us in the courts big-time.
>>
>>Peter Donahue
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
> 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 05:44:40 2009
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 16:44:40 +1100
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Testing Procedures
In-Reply-To: <00d701c98194$0b7fd640$0201a8c0@Serene>
References: <20090128051434.29095.38159@biff.serotek.com>
	<00d701c98194$0b7fd640$0201a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <b6b933030901312144y2c42d1fdxc777cbcf8baa280@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jedi and all,

The ADA does stipulate that you can refuse an accommodation, in this
case the particular readers offered by DSO. Unfortunately I don't know
all the intricacies of whether or not this section of the law protects
you in this case. But, there should be some way for you to get around
this. Definitely find out if this is a real policy or just a
preference by asking to see any relevant policy in writing. If it's
just a preference, you should be able to negotiate with the department
to be allowed to use a reader that's agreeable to both you and them.
One option, as I've discussed earlier, is to use a TA for the course
or in the department if such people are available. TA's are usually
graduate students who are paid to assist with teaching in their
department, including tasks such as alternative testing. (I myself am
a TA and I just the other day proctored an exam for two students whose
disability accommodations, probably for learning disabilities,
included extra time and a quiet setting). Anyway, a TA is going to be
a good reader because he/she has passed the competitive graduate
admissions process and should be familiar with the material, but at
the same time this TA is entrusted by the professor to be honest and
honorable. Using the prof as a reader is another option although not
quite as good because working with the prof can naturally create some
performance anxiety.

The good thing is to keep doing what you're doing and advocate with
the professor without getting DSO involved unless  absolutely
necessary. This ensures that you have as much control as possible over
the efficiency of the testing process and the quality of the reading
you receive.

Please let us know what happens, as we can all learn from your situation.

Arielle

On 1/29/09, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> You don't have an absolute right to use your own reader for tests.  All the
> ADA says is that the college needs to provide a reasonable accommodation, in
> this case, the ODS readers.  Also, the test is the college's administering
> something, not your own reading/studying time.  If you feel comfortable,
> have a meeting with the DSO people to see why they won't let you use your
> own reader--if they simply want you to use their services or if they think
> there's too much possibility of someone's cheating.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: <nfbwatlk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:14 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Testing Procedures
>
>
>> Fellow Federationists:
>>
>> I would like your advice. I have decided to opt out of the SSD office at
>> my university in most cases because it's not terribly efficient in helping
>>
>> blind students succeed in a timely and convenient fashion. generally
>> speaking, I have been able to arrange appropriate accommodations without
>> difficulty. Most teachers have been really helpful in providing tests and
>> other homework in electronic format, or letting me decide who to work with
>>
>> and under what conditions. Recently, i began a class in Special education.
>>
>> The professor uses a test program that apparently doesn't allow for
>> electronic tests usable by students in any fashion. So, I decided that
>> hiring a reader would be appropriate. At first, my teacher agreed
>> providing that I cover myself by giving her proof of my blindness such as
>> an eligibility letter for voc rehab services. I was fine with that.
>> Tonight however, she sent me an e-mail saying that she'd never had a
>> student opt out of using SSD offices, so she asked a higher-up in her
>> department if I could indeed use my own reader. Apparently, according to
>> her, I cannot. Apparently, I am required to use SSD provided readers for
>> this exam. I was under the impression that I am allowed to hire and
>> utilize my own readers and/or choose not to utilize SSD support in my
>> classes. I can understand why she would prefer me to use an SSD reader so
>> as to guard against possible cheating. I, however, am perfectly fine not
>> hiring the reader who ordinarily reads my textbook to me. i have a few
>> readers to choose from. What are my rights in this situation? What are my
>> options? What would you do if you were me? Thanks very much for your help.
>>
>> --
>> REspectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 06:27:31 2009
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:27:31 +1100
Subject: [nabs-l] backpacks are unprofessional?
In-Reply-To: <002701c98289$875bca80$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <BAY136-DS3E90ED379BED435068A18DEC90@phx.gbl>
	<002701c98289$875bca80$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <b6b933030901312227q29322611oc1a68aa0d3ef069a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Martha and all,

It all depends on how much stuff you need to carry and how far you
need to travel with it. While backpacks are convenient and useful, if
using one is not allowed, there are other alternatives that are
equally useful for blind and sighted alike. I am not a guide dog user,
so I don't know if there are any special issues that would interfere
with using a purse or shoulder bag, but as a cane user I don't think
that wearing a bag on one shoulder (the one that you aren't using for
your cane/dog) is a problem. If I need to carry my laptop but no books
or papers, I will use a  laptop case that has a single shoulder strap,
and this case is big enough to fit other small essentials like a
wallet and even a water bottle. I don't remember where I bought this
but it was not expensive. I don't know the specifics of your
assignment but it doesn't sound like you would need both a laptop and
a Braille Note/notetaker at the same time.

Although I don't think blindness presents any special challenges to
computer transport, there is something to be said for trying to lessen
the load that you might be carrying with your one hand that isn't
occupied by the cane or dog. Certainly we can carry things with one
hand just like anyone else but having just one hand free can limit the
 weight/size that you can carry comfortably. The backpack does come in
handy if you have to transport a lot of papers or bags that aren't
easy to carry in one hand. But again, it seems like a briefcase with
shoulder straps would do the job.

I do think all of us can benefit by paying attention to what we are
carrying/packing and being sure to only take what's essential--to
enable us to move about as independently as possible and be able to
use our canes and dogs as effectively as possible.

Arielle

On 1/30/09, Antonio M. Guimaraes <iamantonio at cox.net> wrote:
> Hello Martha,
>
> I think your journalism teacher is making a reasonable enough request of all
> students. One can get roling brief cases, if the *equipment* is too heavy.
> You should not need much moren than a note-taker, or laptop, and a handheld
> recorder.
>
> There are big enough briefcases you can carry that will give you enough
> space. It sounds like this is not a work assignment, at which case you
> should push back about what is confortable for you.
>
> If the job requires students to quote unquote, look professional, and in the
> mind of this professor professional means no back pack, then you for out the
> money if you can.
>
> I could see finances as a reason not to comply, but you probably can either
> find a big enough briescase for your needs, or down size on what you carry
> to your assignments.
>
> Antonio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martha Harris" <latinanewschic at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing li" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <Journalists at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:39 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] backpacks are unprofessional?
>
>
>> Hi Everyone,
>> I'm a journalism major; as part of our magazine production, we have to go
>> out in to the community to sell ads, talk to Lions Clubs, have tables at
>> local events, ETC. We have two conditions: dress professionally, and don't
>>
>> wear a backpack. I totally understand the dress professionally, but what
>> do you all think about backpacks? Do they make us look too much like
>> students and not professionals, and if so, why? As a blind student, would
>> I not be taken seriously because "she doesn't know that everyone else has
>> different bags?" or something like that?
>> Personally, I prefer the backpack. It is painful to have the strap of a
>> messenger bag, satchel, or large purse on my left shoulder with the bag on
>>
>> the right side of my body, and having the strap on my right shoulder with
>> the bag hanging on the left gets in the way of my hand with the dog. Our
>> professor says that since our target audience is permanent residents
>> between 35 and 55 years old who live in the two surrounding counties and
>> not students like the traditional college magazine, we shouldn't look like
>>
>> we come from the university when we go into the town. Thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Martha
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From sarah at growingstrong.org  Sun Feb  1 11:26:04 2009
From: sarah at growingstrong.org (Sarah J. Blake)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 06:26:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] backpacks are unprofessional?
References: <BAY136-DS3E90ED379BED435068A18DEC90@phx.gbl><002701c98289$875bca80$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<b6b933030901312227q29322611oc1a68aa0d3ef069a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12AE09684BA847C19CC9D406DD79B0BD@TINYLAPTOP>

It is possible to carry a purse or reasonably sized bag on my dog arm--and I 
am fairly short and don't have much arm space to work with. On the other 
hand, a rolling bag is an option for carrying a significant amount of stuff. 
Another option is to use a small digital recorder and take notes later. This 
would be more time-intensive but would eliminate the need to carry a laptop 
if your laptop is heavy.


I'm protected by SpamBrave
http://www.spambrave.com/



From terri.rupp at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 19:58:46 2009
From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:58:46 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Agenda for Washington Seminar 2009
Message-ID: <a0d584a0902011158j4477b03ewb78c701d706f7a43@mail.gmail.com>

Falling in Love with NABS Seminar

National Association of Blind Students

Sunday February 8, 2009

Holiday Inn Capital

550 C. St. SW.

Washington DC


8:00AM-9:00AM  Registration $5.00


9:00AM-9:10AM  Terri Rupp, National Association of Blind Students President


9:10AM-9:25AM  Jesse Hartle, NFB Governmental Affairs Specialist


9:25AM-9:35AM  Allison Hilliker, www.bookshare.org


9:35AM-9:45AM  Mehgan Sidhu, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP.  Accessibility in
higher education and update on ITunes/ITunes U


9:45AM-9:55AM  Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D. - Office of Disability Policy, ETS


9:55AM-10:15AM  Braille Reading Between the Lines of Love - Panel on Braille
Readers.

Karen Anderson (Nebraska Association of Blind Students President), Nijat
Worley (Colorado Association of Blind Students 1st VP), Becky Booth (current
student at the Louisiana Center for the Blind)


10:15AM-10:35AM  They Call it Puppy Love - Panel on Bridging the Generation
Gap.

Anil Lewis (NFB of Georgia President, NFB Scholarship Committee Chair),
Isaiah Wilcox (Georgia Association of Blind Students President), David
Bouchard (a chapter president in high school).


10:35AM-11:00AM  The Business of Love - Panel on Employment.

Sean Whalen (working on the Obama team), JJ Meddaugh (NABS Secretary, how he
started his own business), Jonathan Lyens (NFB of CA Treasurer how he got to
work for the Mayer of San Francisco).


Breakout Sessions

11:00-11:45 Session 1

11:45-12:30 Session 2


12:30-2:00 LUNCH


2:00PM-2:30PM  The University of Love - Panel on Education

Arielle Silverman (NABS 1st VP), Yolanda Garcia (NABS Board Member), Corbb
O'Conner (Virginia Association of Blind Students President)


2:30PM-2:40PM  John Kelly, RFB&D


2:40PM-2:50PM  Mary Jo Thorp, NFB Youth Slam


2:50PM-3:00PM  Dr. Eddie Bell, Director of the Louisiana Tech Institute on
Blindness


3:00PM-3:15PM  Dr. Marc Maurer, National Federation of the Blind President


3:15PM-3:30PM  Roll Call of States


3:30PM  Adjourn



Breakout Sessions

11:00 -11:45  Session 1

NFB Training Centers – Pam Allen, Julie Deden, and Shawn Mayo

How-To Survive an Interview - Jen Kennedy, Lisamaria Martinez, and Allison
Hilliker

Blind Dating - Yolanda Garcia, JJ Meddaugh, and Joe Orozco

Technology and Techniques for Tough Classes - Arielle Silverman, BJ Sexton,
Matt McCubbin

How-to survive a new school/dorm/dining hall - Janice Jeang, Karen Anderson,
and Sean Whalen


11:45 – 12:30  Session 2

NFB Training Centers – Pam Allen, Julie Deden, and Shawn Mayo

How-To Survive an Interview - Yolanda Garcia, Sean Whalen, Jonathan Lyens

Blind Dating - Janice Jeang, BJ Sexton, Lisamaria Martinez

Technology and Techniques for Tough Classes - Arielle Silverman, JJ
Meddaugh, and Allison Hilliker

How-to survive a new school/dorm/dining hall - Jen Kennedy, Matt McCubbin,
and Cali Sandel

For more information on the National Association of Blind Students visit
www.nabslink.org.

From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sun Feb  1 22:08:24 2009
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 16:08:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] backpacks are unprofessional?
In-Reply-To: <12AE09684BA847C19CC9D406DD79B0BD@TINYLAPTOP>
References: <BAY136-DS3E90ED379BED435068A18DEC90@phx.gbl>
	<002701c98289$875bca80$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<b6b933030901312227q29322611oc1a68aa0d3ef069a@mail.gmail.com>
	<12AE09684BA847C19CC9D406DD79B0BD@TINYLAPTOP>
Message-ID: <7949e5e20902011408l7e85e9bbo95a6dc4946a9f42@mail.gmail.com>

Scott,

I'm quite behind on my E-mails, so I'm sorry that I'm asking this so
long after you posted your message.  What sort of groceries have you
found it convenient to carry with a backpack?  Any that you've tried
carrying and regretted later?
Courtney

On 2/1/09, Sarah J. Blake <sarah at growingstrong.org> wrote:
> It is possible to carry a purse or reasonably sized bag on my dog arm--and I
> am fairly short and don't have much arm space to work with. On the other
> hand, a rolling bag is an option for carrying a significant amount of stuff.
> Another option is to use a small digital recorder and take notes later. This
> would be more time-intensive but would eliminate the need to carry a laptop
> if your laptop is heavy.
>
>
> I'm protected by SpamBrave
> http://www.spambrave.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From snowball07 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 01:17:27 2009
From: snowball07 at gmail.com (Snowball07)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 19:17:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Mixer and Open Mike Night at Washington Seminar
References: <FAE8C7D0CAF4497B9A736DBE0537A7CE@yourdc685efcd2><4983c88c.0807c00a.5b28.527e@mx.google.com>
	<010a01c98400$7eef7ae0$6701a8c0@yolanda>
Message-ID: <281B937D10314A62A23B8DA91DE24267@Triumphonic03>

Hello Guys,

Thank  you Yolanda, for answering the emails.  Sorry for failing to list the 
most important information about the mixer. So, here is a recap!

Date- Monday, Feb. 9, 2009
Time- 9:00 pm to 11:00 pm
What- NABS Mixer- Open mike- dancing, limbo and more....!
Who- Everybody.
Price- $3 ahead of time $5 at the door. Thank you. Please email song 
preferences if you want to sing for the karaoke to-
janice.jeang at gmail.com

Kindest Regards,

Janice Jeang
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Yolanda Garcia" <yvgarcia at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Nabs Mixer and Open Mike Night at Washington Seminar


> Hi Liz,
>
> The NABS mixer is going to be Monday evening Feb 9 from 9:00 to 11:00. 
> This way it gives everyone enough time to go out to eat prior to the event 
> and won't run too late just in case you have appointments with 
> representatives the next day. Hope you plan on coming! Limbo is going to 
> be a blast!
>
> Warmly,
> Yolanda
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Liz Bottner" <liz.bottner at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Nabs Mixer and Open Mike Night at Washington Seminar
>
>
> One question: what time will the mixer be held? To my knowledge, that one
> all-important detail was left out of the email.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Liz
>
> email:
> liz.bottner at gmail.com
> Visit my livejournal:
> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
> Follow me on Twitter:
> http://twitter.com/lizbot
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yvgarcia%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com 



From valandkayla at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 03:14:28 2009
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 21:14:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ichapters
Message-ID: <da706cb30902011914x43ec1009s203a119d106fb55d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, i was wondering if any of you was familiar with  the website known
as ichapters.com. basically from what i understand it's a website that
offers a selection of books that you can order by chapter or by book
in either audio, hard copy, or digitally. it's got some sort of
software that goes with it--an uncealer that you need to open the book
with. i can't get it to work, meaning i can't get the software to open
the book. i wasn't sure if i'm doing something wrong and should call
tech support, or if any of you had heard of it and could give me some
advice.
I understand that getting the books from bookshare would be easier,
but bookshare doesn't have these two books that i need, and i was kind
of in a rush to get into my classes this semester. any help would be
appriciated as soon as possible. thank you.


From iamantonio at cox.net  Mon Feb  2 04:01:43 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 23:01:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
References: <auto-000083826551@mailfront1.g2host.com><00b701c98315$43fb8a00$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<auto-000083967694@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <001e01c984ea$f61429a0$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello Peter,

As David Andrews points out, Twitter apparently has an audio auternative for 
signing up to the service. I am a member of the site, and know lots of other 
blind people who post there, and the captcha has not stopped these many 
blind people from signing up.

There is no excuse for sites not to have a visual means of securing the 
site, and keeping bots out of the picture. I don't much understand your 
staunch opposition even to something like that, you say because it leaves 
out the deaf-blind.

I submit that if all a sight requires is a captcha for signing up, and one 
really wants to get signed up, one would arrange time with a sighted person 
to process their enrollment in the service.

While we don't want to be left out of the loop, and counted out of 
participation in onnline networking or what have you, I find it somewhat 
anoying that such continued opposition should go on without regard for a 
site's responsibility to keep out spammers. It should be considered that 
meaningful efforts to resolve the issue, such as audio captchas have been 
made.

Again, I am willing to bet that hundreds of blind people are on Twitter, and 
even more on FaceBook, despite your hatred for their antispam methods.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter


Peter:

It seems to me that it is not CAPTCHA's per se
that we are opposed to, but visual requirements
without reasonable alternatives.  Twitter does have an audio CAPTCHA.

These sites have reasonable security concerns and
it is their right and responsibility to take
steps to make them secure.  As long as they
provide us with reasonable alternatives we should
not oppose their visual approaches.

Dave

At 01:59 PM 1/30/2009, Peter Donahue wrote:
>Good afternoon everyone,
>
>     I'm sorry folks but if this organization opposes the use of CAPTCHA as 
> a
>means of site security it has no business putting its presences on these
>sites that require blind people to use them; particularly if the audio
>quality is horrible and the person is both blind  and deaf. I'm all for
>establishing presences on social networks but not on those that require the
>use of a CAPTCHA as a part of registration process. As far as I'm concerned
>we're shooting ourselves in the foot if this continues!!
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Danielsen, Chris (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
><CDanielsen at nfb.org>
>To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:58 PM
>Subject: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
>
>
>
>Dear Fellow Federationists:
>
>
>I am writing with exciting news! You can now
>follow the latest news and information from the
>National Federation of the Blind, the Voice of
>the Nation's Blind, on Twitter.  To follow our
>Twitter updates, go to
><http://www.twitter.com/NFB_voice>www.twitter.com/NFB_voice.
>You'll need to join Twitter if you don't have an account.
>
>
>
>Twitter is a social networking site that allows
>you to keep track of your friends, family, and
>interests online.  In addition to signing up for
>Web updates for the National Federation of the
>Blind, you can also opt to receive our Twitter
>updates via text message on your mobile
>phone.  And while you're at it, follow the 2009
>Braille Readers are Leaders campaign as well, by
>going to
><http://www.twitter.com/brailleliteracy>www.twitter.com/brailleliteracy
>
>
>
>We hope lots of you will follow our new Twitter
>feed­and don't hesitate to send us a direct
>message if you have questions or comments about what you read.
>
>
>
>Sincerely:
>
>
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1926 - Release Date: 1/30/2009 
>5:31 PM


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  2 05:24:24 2009
From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 00:24:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>

Hey all,
I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on the lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one group is more efficient than the other and what not.
I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to get my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting to become members of the organization this year.
Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
     I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not always there to spend time with me to help with the process.

I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that has audio instead of those absurd security captions.
I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that people can see them.
I really look forward to doing so.
mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
Thank you very much


Priscilla

From valandkayla at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 05:42:24 2009
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 23:42:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <da706cb30902012142i4fbd6ca8x2cd1be4f690374a8@mail.gmail.com>

I've set up an account on youtube and ran into no problems. but i'll
try creating another account in case they've changed things.

PS: while i can't get the visual asspect of youtube, youtube does not suck.

On 2/1/09, priscilla <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
> I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on the
> lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books
> which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
> this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one
> group is more efficient than the other and what not.
> I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to get
> my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
> Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting to
> become members of the organization this year.
> Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
> the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to
> sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
>      I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not
> always there to spend time with me to help with the process.
>
> I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that has
> audio instead of those absurd security captions.
> I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that
> people can see them.
> I really look forward to doing so.
> mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
> Thank you very much
>
>
> Priscilla
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>


From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 06:01:33 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 01:01:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <63af025c0902012201u4ad94f5fp1e0f6838de487725@mail.gmail.com>

A lot of websites are like that. It's not just YouTube. My boyfriend
complains about it constantly.

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 12:24 AM, priscilla
<priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Hey all,
> I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on the
> lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books
> which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
> this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one
> group is more efficient than the other and what not.
> I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to
> get my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
> Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting
> to become members of the organization this year.
> Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
> the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to
> sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
>     I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not
> always there to spend time with me to help with the process.
>
> I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that
> has audio instead of those absurd security captions.
> I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that
> people can see them.
> I really look forward to doing so.
> mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
> Thank you very much
>
>
> Priscilla
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Feb  2 06:04:12 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:04:12 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] ichapters
References: <da706cb30902011914x43ec1009s203a119d106fb55d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BB638D010FFE43D2B146B6EC6E1968DC@D3ZCJ891>

Does it cost?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Valerie Gibson" <valandkayla at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] ichapters


Hi, i was wondering if any of you was familiar with  the website known
as ichapters.com. basically from what i understand it's a website that
offers a selection of books that you can order by chapter or by book
in either audio, hard copy, or digitally. it's got some sort of
software that goes with it--an uncealer that you need to open the book
with. i can't get it to work, meaning i can't get the software to open
the book. i wasn't sure if i'm doing something wrong and should call
tech support, or if any of you had heard of it and could give me some
advice.
I understand that getting the books from bookshare would be easier,
but bookshare doesn't have these two books that i need, and i was kind
of in a rush to get into my classes this semester. any help would be
appriciated as soon as possible. thank you.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Feb  2 06:05:27 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 22:05:27 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <908EC172C7DF423B9938C7B8AA3EE29E@D3ZCJ891>

They don't have the click here for audio option?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "priscilla" <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>
To: <njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:24 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time


Hey all,
I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on the 
lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books 
which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one 
group is more efficient than the other and what not.
I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to get 
my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting to 
become members of the organization this year.
Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to 
sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
     I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not 
always there to spend time with me to help with the process.

I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that has 
audio instead of those absurd security captions.
I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that 
people can see them.
I really look forward to doing so.
mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
Thank you very much


Priscilla
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb  2 06:16:59 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 00:16:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A Battle Waiting to be Lost
References: <auto-000083826551@mailfront1.g2host.com><00b701c98315$43fb8a00$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn><auto-000083967694@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<001e01c984ea$f61429a0$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <000d01c984fd$dcaf0620$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

    Hello Antonio and listers,

Try using an audio CAPTCHA if you have a severe hearing impairment or are 
deaf-blind. There's also a credibility issue and potential consequences that 
could work against us should we need to resort to litigation to gain 
complete access to these communities.

    What individuals do about social networks is their business. The problem 
comes when an organization that champions and actively promotes Web and 
application accessibility knowingly establishes a presence on social 
networks it knows have accessibility issues for the blind. These sites can't 
be ignored. That's all the more the reason to not establish presences in 
these social communities in the organization's name to protect our chances 
of winning should we decide to sue these guys if they continue to fail to 
address accessibility issues. Let Myspace, Facebook and company wave this 
fact in our faces in the state or federal courts. After all we have 
presences on their sites so why should they care about accessibility. We can 
always get sighted help to deal with CAPTCHAS and such so why waste their 
time with this talk about inaccessibility.

If you ask me if we continue down this path and continue to create NFB 
presences on social communities we know have accessibility issues for the 
blind we've opened up a nasty can of worms for ourselves. It's a court 
battle just waiting to be lost.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes" <iamantonio at cox.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter


Hello Peter,

As David Andrews points out, Twitter apparently has an audio auternative for
signing up to the service. I am a member of the site, and know lots of other
blind people who post there, and the captcha has not stopped these many
blind people from signing up.

There is no excuse for sites not to have a visual means of securing the
site, and keeping bots out of the picture. I don't much understand your
staunch opposition even to something like that, you say because it leaves
out the deaf-blind.

I submit that if all a sight requires is a captcha for signing up, and one
really wants to get signed up, one would arrange time with a sighted person
to process their enrollment in the service.

While we don't want to be left out of the loop, and counted out of
participation in onnline networking or what have you, I find it somewhat
anoying that such continued opposition should go on without regard for a
site's responsibility to keep out spammers. It should be considered that
meaningful efforts to resolve the issue, such as audio captchas have been
made.

Again, I am willing to bet that hundreds of blind people are on Twitter, and
even more on FaceBook, despite your hatred for their antispam methods.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter


Peter:

It seems to me that it is not CAPTCHA's per se
that we are opposed to, but visual requirements
without reasonable alternatives.  Twitter does have an audio CAPTCHA.

These sites have reasonable security concerns and
it is their right and responsibility to take
steps to make them secure.  As long as they
provide us with reasonable alternatives we should
not oppose their visual approaches.

Dave

At 01:59 PM 1/30/2009, Peter Donahue wrote:
>Good afternoon everyone,
>
>     I'm sorry folks but if this organization opposes the use of CAPTCHA as
> a
>means of site security it has no business putting its presences on these
>sites that require blind people to use them; particularly if the audio
>quality is horrible and the person is both blind  and deaf. I'm all for
>establishing presences on social networks but not on those that require the
>use of a CAPTCHA as a part of registration process. As far as I'm concerned
>we're shooting ourselves in the foot if this continues!!
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Danielsen, Chris (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
><CDanielsen at nfb.org>
>To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:58 PM
>Subject: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
>
>
>
>Dear Fellow Federationists:
>
>
>I am writing with exciting news! You can now
>follow the latest news and information from the
>National Federation of the Blind, the Voice of
>the Nation's Blind, on Twitter.  To follow our
>Twitter updates, go to
><http://www.twitter.com/NFB_voice>www.twitter.com/NFB_voice.
>You'll need to join Twitter if you don't have an account.
>
>
>
>Twitter is a social networking site that allows
>you to keep track of your friends, family, and
>interests online.  In addition to signing up for
>Web updates for the National Federation of the
>Blind, you can also opt to receive our Twitter
>updates via text message on your mobile
>phone.  And while you're at it, follow the 2009
>Braille Readers are Leaders campaign as well, by
>going to
><http://www.twitter.com/brailleliteracy>www.twitter.com/brailleliteracy
>
>
>
>We hope lots of you will follow our new Twitter
>feed­and don't hesitate to send us a direct
>message if you have questions or comments about what you read.
>
>
>
>Sincerely:
>
>
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1926 - Release Date: 1/30/2009
>5:31 PM


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net 



From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 06:20:34 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 01:20:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Battle Waiting to be Lost
In-Reply-To: <000d01c984fd$dcaf0620$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <auto-000083826551@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<00b701c98315$43fb8a00$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<auto-000083967694@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<001e01c984ea$f61429a0$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<000d01c984fd$dcaf0620$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <63af025c0902012220m71e7cb7udb32d5be346094b7@mail.gmail.com>

I've seen Youth Slam videos and March for Independence videos and even
Straight Talk About Vision Loss on Youtube. Why would Riccobono and all the
others involved in these videos put them up there if that's just adding to
the problem?

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Peter Donahue <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

>    Hello Antonio and listers,
>
> Try using an audio CAPTCHA if you have a severe hearing impairment or are
> deaf-blind. There's also a credibility issue and potential consequences
> that
> could work against us should we need to resort to litigation to gain
> complete access to these communities.
>
>    What individuals do about social networks is their business. The problem
> comes when an organization that champions and actively promotes Web and
> application accessibility knowingly establishes a presence on social
> networks it knows have accessibility issues for the blind. These sites
> can't
> be ignored. That's all the more the reason to not establish presences in
> these social communities in the organization's name to protect our chances
> of winning should we decide to sue these guys if they continue to fail to
> address accessibility issues. Let Myspace, Facebook and company wave this
> fact in our faces in the state or federal courts. After all we have
> presences on their sites so why should they care about accessibility. We
> can
> always get sighted help to deal with CAPTCHAS and such so why waste their
> time with this talk about inaccessibility.
>
> If you ask me if we continue down this path and continue to create NFB
> presences on social communities we know have accessibility issues for the
> blind we've opened up a nasty can of worms for ourselves. It's a court
> battle just waiting to be lost.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes" <iamantonio at cox.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
>
>
> Hello Peter,
>
> As David Andrews points out, Twitter apparently has an audio auternative
> for
> signing up to the service. I am a member of the site, and know lots of
> other
> blind people who post there, and the captcha has not stopped these many
> blind people from signing up.
>
> There is no excuse for sites not to have a visual means of securing the
> site, and keeping bots out of the picture. I don't much understand your
> staunch opposition even to something like that, you say because it leaves
> out the deaf-blind.
>
> I submit that if all a sight requires is a captcha for signing up, and one
> really wants to get signed up, one would arrange time with a sighted person
> to process their enrollment in the service.
>
> While we don't want to be left out of the loop, and counted out of
> participation in onnline networking or what have you, I find it somewhat
> anoying that such continued opposition should go on without regard for a
> site's responsibility to keep out spammers. It should be considered that
> meaningful efforts to resolve the issue, such as audio captchas have been
> made.
>
> Again, I am willing to bet that hundreds of blind people are on Twitter,
> and
> even more on FaceBook, despite your hatred for their antispam methods.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
>
>
> Peter:
>
> It seems to me that it is not CAPTCHA's per se
> that we are opposed to, but visual requirements
> without reasonable alternatives.  Twitter does have an audio CAPTCHA.
>
> These sites have reasonable security concerns and
> it is their right and responsibility to take
> steps to make them secure.  As long as they
> provide us with reasonable alternatives we should
> not oppose their visual approaches.
>
> Dave
>
> At 01:59 PM 1/30/2009, Peter Donahue wrote:
> >Good afternoon everyone,
> >
> >     I'm sorry folks but if this organization opposes the use of CAPTCHA
> as
> > a
> >means of site security it has no business putting its presences on these
> >sites that require blind people to use them; particularly if the audio
> >quality is horrible and the person is both blind  and deaf. I'm all for
> >establishing presences on social networks but not on those that require
> the
> >use of a CAPTCHA as a part of registration process. As far as I'm
> concerned
> >we're shooting ourselves in the foot if this continues!!
> >
> >Peter Donahue
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Danielsen, Chris (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)"
> ><CDanielsen at nfb.org>
> >To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 9:58 PM
> >Subject: [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
> >
> >
> >
> >Dear Fellow Federationists:
> >
> >
> >I am writing with exciting news! You can now
> >follow the latest news and information from the
> >National Federation of the Blind, the Voice of
> >the Nation's Blind, on Twitter.  To follow our
> >Twitter updates, go to
> ><http://www.twitter.com/NFB_voice>www.twitter.com/NFB_voice.
> >You'll need to join Twitter if you don't have an account.
> >
> >
> >
> >Twitter is a social networking site that allows
> >you to keep track of your friends, family, and
> >interests online.  In addition to signing up for
> >Web updates for the National Federation of the
> >Blind, you can also opt to receive our Twitter
> >updates via text message on your mobile
> >phone.  And while you're at it, follow the 2009
> >Braille Readers are Leaders campaign as well, by
> >going to
> ><http://www.twitter.com/brailleliteracy>www.twitter.com/brailleliteracy
> >
> >
> >
> >We hope lots of you will follow our new Twitter
> >feed­and don't hesitate to send us a direct
> >message if you have questions or comments about what you read.
> >
> >
> >
> >Sincerely:
> >
> >
> >
> >Chris Danielsen
> >
> >Director of Public Relations
> >
> >NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >nabs-l mailing list
> >nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1926 - Release Date:
> 1/30/2009
> >5:31 PM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Mon Feb  2 07:00:23 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 02:00:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Agenda for Washington Seminar 2009
Message-ID: <20090202070023.8512.67830@biff.serotek.com>

Hi.


Unfortunately, I won't be able to make it this year. Will there be a 
recorded version of the bigger meetings or live stream I could listen 
to? There are a few items of interest that I'd like to hear. Thanks 
very much. Otherwise, I could see about getting someone in from the NFB 
History Group.

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  2 07:03:47 2009
From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 23:03:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] PlexTalk Pocket PTP1
Message-ID: <582944.54928.qm@web56101.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Anyone know where I can find an MP3 demonstration of this player? It looks to be a better value than the Stream, because of it's ability to record in multiple formats & settings, including DAISY. I've never seen a player of that size that can do that. 



      

From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Mon Feb  2 07:08:38 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 02:08:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Battle Waiting to be Lost
Message-ID: <20090202070838.5195.11703@biff.serotek.com>

Well, you can't deny that Pete has a point about the deaf-blind. Audio 
captions won't do them good, and the deaf-blind are indeed a part of 
our community just as much as any hearing blind person is. Personally 
though, I doubt anyone's trying to keep us out of these sites on 
purpose, so I bet they'll talk to us as long as we do the diplomatic 
thing and not jump on them right away. That's just my take on it all.

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 09:09:49 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 01:09:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A Battle Waiting to be Lost
In-Reply-To: <20090202070838.5195.11703@biff.serotek.com>
References: <20090202070838.5195.11703@biff.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <20090202090949.GA21434@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I've seen basic reasoning tasks alongside CAPTCHAs, but never by 
themselves.  I prefer the reasoning tasks because I know how to 
defeat the CAPTCHA if you are unscrupulous, but I can think of no 
automated means to defeat a reasoning task.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 02:08:38AM -0500, Jedi wrote:
> Well, you can't deny that Pete has a point about the deaf-blind. Audio  
> captions won't do them good, and the deaf-blind are indeed a part of our 
> community just as much as any hearing blind person is. Personally  
> though, I doubt anyone's trying to keep us out of these sites on  
> purpose, so I bet they'll talk to us as long as we do the diplomatic  
> thing and not jump on them right away. That's just my take on it all.
>
> -- 
> REspectfully,
> Jedi


From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 13:54:10 2009
From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 08:54:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <908EC172C7DF423B9938C7B8AA3EE29E@D3ZCJ891>
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
	<908EC172C7DF423B9938C7B8AA3EE29E@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <a7b0cbec0902020554m30d43cbcmd0dfb2a4aa4e35f8@mail.gmail.com>

Well, personally, I love YouTube. I've used it since 2006. It did have
a security caption thing, but that is only when you sign up. I can
upload videos with no problem. I honestly, have no problem using
YouTube and don't see why anyone else would.

On 2/2/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> They don't have the click here for audio option?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "priscilla" <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>
> To: <njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:24 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
>
>
> Hey all,
> I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on the
> lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books
> which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
> this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one
> group is more efficient than the other and what not.
> I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to get
> my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
> Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting to
> become members of the organization this year.
> Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
> the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to
> sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
>      I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not
> always there to spend time with me to help with the process.
>
> I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that has
> audio instead of those absurd security captions.
> I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that
> people can see them.
> I really look forward to doing so.
> mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
> Thank you very much
>
>
> Priscilla
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com
>


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 15:28:41 2009
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:28:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <a7b0cbec0902020554m30d43cbcmd0dfb2a4aa4e35f8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
	<908EC172C7DF423B9938C7B8AA3EE29E@D3ZCJ891>
	<a7b0cbec0902020554m30d43cbcmd0dfb2a4aa4e35f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4383d01d0902020728t158f2059x3bf070f48b71511c@mail.gmail.com>

Iwould suggest getting a Google account.  You can log in quickly with
your Google account so that you don't have to worry about pcatchas and
crap.
Beth

On 2/2/09, Franandah Damstra <fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, personally, I love YouTube. I've used it since 2006. It did have
> a security caption thing, but that is only when you sign up. I can
> upload videos with no problem. I honestly, have no problem using
> YouTube and don't see why anyone else would.
>
> On 2/2/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> They don't have the click here for audio option?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "priscilla" <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>
>> To: <njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:24 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
>>
>>
>> Hey all,
>> I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on
>> the
>> lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books
>> which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
>> this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one
>> group is more efficient than the other and what not.
>> I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to
>> get
>> my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
>> Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting
>> to
>> become members of the organization this year.
>> Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
>> the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to
>> sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
>>      I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not
>> always there to spend time with me to help with the process.
>>
>> I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that
>> has
>> audio instead of those absurd security captions.
>> I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that
>> people can see them.
>> I really look forward to doing so.
>> mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
>> Thank you very much
>>
>>
>> Priscilla
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Mon Feb  2 15:44:33 2009
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 10:44:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Battle Waiting to be Lost
Message-ID: <web-13363012@mailback1.g2host.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/attachments/20090202/2715d5cb/attachment.htm>

From cassonw at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 16:26:37 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 08:26:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0902020728t158f2059x3bf070f48b71511c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl>
	<908EC172C7DF423B9938C7B8AA3EE29E@D3ZCJ891>
	<a7b0cbec0902020554m30d43cbcmd0dfb2a4aa4e35f8@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383d01d0902020728t158f2059x3bf070f48b71511c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902020826v6f31b71dre21a1f8497f0c8c9@mail.gmail.com>

Just my own note.  I tryed to create a google account for this address a few
days ago and it took me half an hour just to get the stupid audiocaptcha
right.  i think this is a little rediculus and should be changed.
Bill
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:28 AM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Iwould suggest getting a Google account.  You can log in quickly with
> your Google account so that you don't have to worry about pcatchas and
> crap.
> Beth
>
> On 2/2/09, Franandah Damstra <fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, personally, I love YouTube. I've used it since 2006. It did have
> > a security caption thing, but that is only when you sign up. I can
> > upload videos with no problem. I honestly, have no problem using
> > YouTube and don't see why anyone else would.
> >
> > On 2/2/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> >> They don't have the click here for audio option?
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "priscilla" <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:24 PM
> >> Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey all,
> >> I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on
> >> the
> >> lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books
> >> which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
> >> this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one
> >> group is more efficient than the other and what not.
> >> I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to
> >> get
> >> my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
> >> Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is
> starting
> >> to
> >> become members of the organization this year.
> >> Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
> >> the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to
> >> sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
> >>      I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is
> not
> >> always there to spend time with me to help with the process.
> >>
> >> I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that
> >> has
> >> audio instead of those absurd security captions.
> >> I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that
> >> people can see them.
> >> I really look forward to doing so.
> >> mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
> >> Thank you very much
> >>
> >>
> >> Priscilla
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From jmassay1 at cox.net  Mon Feb  2 19:16:58 2009
From: jmassay1 at cox.net (JMassay)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:16:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Agenda for Washington Seminar
Message-ID: <E75D37DE40D24DB2972C3EEB55790107@MERLIN>

Hi Terri.  I will not be at Washington Seminar this year.  Will there be
materials available from the General and Break-out Sessions? It sounds like
there will be a lot going on.  I will be there in spirit.  Let me know about
the information and I'll see you in Baltimore in March.  Hope everyone has a
great experience in DC.


From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 19:23:29 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:23:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
Message-ID: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>

This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I will
be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.

If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't get
you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader doesn't
show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness, what
should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even though
you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
one of thousands of students? Please help... :(

From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 20:04:03 2009
From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:04:03 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] backpacks are unprofessional?
References: <BAY136-DS3E90ED379BED435068A18DEC90@phx.gbl><002701c98289$875bca80$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb><b6b933030901312227q29322611oc1a68aa0d3ef069a@mail.gmail.com><12AE09684BA847C19CC9D406DD79B0BD@TINYLAPTOP>
	<7949e5e20902011408l7e85e9bbo95a6dc4946a9f42@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD0EB372386748D1BFE05646E957E035@Bird>

Groceries in a backpack would get a bit dicey even for dry goods. The issue 
of smashing is huge. I've tried to carry a candy stash, and it's been 
rendered useless by the time I got home.

Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 15:08
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] backpacks are unprofessional?


> Scott,
>
> I'm quite behind on my E-mails, so I'm sorry that I'm asking this so
> long after you posted your message.  What sort of groceries have you
> found it convenient to carry with a backpack?  Any that you've tried
> carrying and regretted later?
> Courtney
>
> On 2/1/09, Sarah J. Blake <sarah at growingstrong.org> wrote:
>> It is possible to carry a purse or reasonably sized bag on my dog 
>> arm--and I
>> am fairly short and don't have much arm space to work with. On the other
>> hand, a rolling bag is an option for carrying a significant amount of 
>> stuff.
>> Another option is to use a small digital recorder and take notes later. 
>> This
>> would be more time-intensive but would eliminate the need to carry a 
>> laptop
>> if your laptop is heavy.
>>
>>
>> I'm protected by SpamBrave
>> http://www.spambrave.com/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com 



From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Mon Feb  2 20:05:03 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:05:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090202150503.6sm1khouh44ww404@webmail.utoronto.ca>

Hi,
I would recommend writing to the professor. They are human; even if  
it's a big university they should have some concern. Also refusal to  
write the test would be ideal, as long as you have made some effort to  
find back-ups. For instance, would it be possible to get someone you  
live with or a friend to read for you? If you've shown that  
initiative, it shows that you're really serious about learning the  
material and so the prof would find it harder to refuse assistance.  
Writing the test anyway wouldn't be great unless you truly think  
you're ready. Don't do this until you've written to the prof. If you  
can find their office telephone number that would be best; they would  
find it harder to say no over the phone, and you would have more  
opportunity to argue your case. If you can visit them in person that  
would be the absolute best though.
Good luck.
Sarah
Quoting Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>:

> This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I will
> be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.
>
> If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't get
> you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader doesn't
> show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness, what
> should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even though
> you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
> who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
> one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>





From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Mon Feb  2 20:08:00 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:08:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
Message-ID: <20090202200800.23937.97047@biff.serotek.com>

Hi.

Why didn't the student arrange for a back-up plan in case the first 
reader failed? That would be my first question. Second, I would try and 
talk to the professor if I could. Otherwise, then might be a perfect 
opportunity for dSS services to assist in the advocacy process where 
appropriate. Simply not taking the test might be more trouble than it's 
worth. Just my two cents. If a retake is possible, I do it that way if 
it were me.


Original message:
> This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I will
> be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.

> If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't get
> you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader doesn't
> show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness, what
> should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even though
> you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
> who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
> one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Mon Feb  2 20:14:36 2009
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 15:14:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <web-13371584@mailback1.g2host.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/attachments/20090202/5b16eb99/attachment.htm>

From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  2 20:45:28 2009
From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:45:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
References: <BAY105-DS2A2C1E6BDC069F9098798BAC50@phx.gbl><908EC172C7DF423B9938C7B8AA3EE29E@D3ZCJ891>
	<a7b0cbec0902020554m30d43cbcmd0dfb2a4aa4e35f8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DAF20560E504C0FA86FB16D83516532@usore540475a8f>

I think there is a lot of frustration in the blind community regarding 
capcha. I think we need to avoid getting to angry with this whole thing and 
put things in to prospective. Companies like YouTube have reasons to put it 
up. Yes, I am surprised that YouTube has not provided an audio capcha. This 
is because they are owned by Google. However, if Capcha is the worst thing 
we as blind people have to worry about in technology, I don't think it is 
worth fusing over too much. Yes I am for the wonderful things the NFB is 
doing to remedy the capcha problem. I think this needs to be addressed. But 
let's avoid saying to each other I will never be a part of this site because 
they have Capcha. I have learned over the years we just need to be patient. 
I use to be angry about this to. I still am to some degree. But let's be 
objective about this. Companies have reasons to put it on their web site. A 
lot of companies may not be aware of what the NFB is doing. They may not be 
aware of an audio capcha. I work for a company that has capcha. Thankfully 
when I am at the company, I can call the General Manager and she is nice 
enough to read me the word as it appears on the screen. Yes, I told her 
about the audio capcha. But the radio station struggles with money. That's 
ok in my mind. I could be pissed off at the company I work for. But I look 
at all the wonderful things they have done for me in the past few months. I 
think we as blind people need to put things in prospective and realize we 
wi9ll continue to work with companies to remedy this whole thing with 
Capcha. I will talk to you later.

"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Franandah Damstra" <fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time


> Well, personally, I love YouTube. I've used it since 2006. It did have
> a security caption thing, but that is only when you sign up. I can
> upload videos with no problem. I honestly, have no problem using
> YouTube and don't see why anyone else would.
>
> On 2/2/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> They don't have the click here for audio option?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "priscilla" <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>
>> To: <njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:24 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
>>
>>
>> Hey all,
>> I am emailing you all because today I had enough spare time to write on 
>> the
>> lists since I was busy with dealing with homework and some of the books
>> which seemed like pulling teeth out of the DSS.
>> this is only because they keep changing and turning over staff, and one
>> group is more efficient than the other and what not.
>> I called and went to there office numerous times and insisted on them to 
>> get
>> my books for one of my courses involving Caribbean literature.
>> Finally they ordered my books from RFB and D since the school is starting 
>> to
>> become members of the organization this year.
>> Anyway, I encounter another frustration.
>> the point is that YouTube is driving me crazy because whenever I want to
>> sign up, I can't see the images that are provided for security reasons.
>>      I am frustrated and tired about this because a sighted person is not
>> always there to spend time with me to help with the process.
>>
>> I don't know how to contact these people and request an alternative that 
>> has
>> audio instead of those absurd security captions.
>> I am wanting to upload some videos of my lovely cat on YouTube so that
>> people can see them.
>> I really look forward to doing so.
>> mom said I should upload them on YouTube only because my kitty is cute.
>> Thank you very much
>>
>>
>> Priscilla
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/commanderlumpy2003%40earthlink.net
> 



From valandkayla at gmail.com  Mon Feb  2 20:45:10 2009
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:45:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ichapters
In-Reply-To: <BB638D010FFE43D2B146B6EC6E1968DC@D3ZCJ891>
References: <da706cb30902011914x43ec1009s203a119d106fb55d@mail.gmail.com>
	<BB638D010FFE43D2B146B6EC6E1968DC@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <da706cb30902021245q1472f198r4d62f040ee8f75a9@mail.gmail.com>

it does per book. but it's only about 70 dollars or so, and the file
is useful for up to 160 days. so i figure $70's not bad for a book,
considering what the hard copy is.  but if you buy just one chapter,
it's like $2.
again, don't get too excited. i'm still trying to figure out it's
accessibility, so for now i'm playing around with it until i get an
answer. if i still can't figure it out and have gotten no other
answer, i'll contact tech support.

On 2/2/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Does it cost?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Valerie Gibson" <valandkayla at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] ichapters
>
>
> Hi, i was wondering if any of you was familiar with  the website known
> as ichapters.com. basically from what i understand it's a website that
> offers a selection of books that you can order by chapter or by book
> in either audio, hard copy, or digitally. it's got some sort of
> software that goes with it--an uncealer that you need to open the book
> with. i can't get it to work, meaning i can't get the software to open
> the book. i wasn't sure if i'm doing something wrong and should call
> tech support, or if any of you had heard of it and could give me some
> advice.
> I understand that getting the books from bookshare would be easier,
> but bookshare doesn't have these two books that i need, and i was kind
> of in a rush to get into my classes this semester. any help would be
> appriciated as soon as possible. thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  2 21:32:49 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:32:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0841896ED8CD47C485A652EB29B6BFC0@Ashley>

Hi Jamie,

I'm not sure what to reccommend.  My best advice is to prevent such a 
situation.  Have back up readers!

If your reader doesn't show up for a whole week before the exam, I think its 
the student's responsibility to go to the professor, the dss office or 
someone to find another reader.
Its the student's responsibility to learn the matterial and one should do 
something about accessibility problems way before an exam.

Definately talk to the professor or write about the situation, but prior to 
the exam!
I would say refusing to take the test because you could not prepare sends a 
bad message.  So perhaps the student should take the exam and see how they 
do.  If they fail the exam, that will teach them to be proactive and study 
next time with a different reader or tutor.

I did not have issues with readers for preparing for tests in my one math 
class I had.  But I did encounter the other part of this situation you 
described.

I was in a math class and had to use a combo of large print and readers for 
the text.  I could not get it in braille nor did rfb have it.
My class used an online assignment system called Course Compass.  As you 
described, the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible.  I was 
> not able to do the practice exercises and test preparation online like 
> other students because Course Compass was not accessible.  I use jaws.
So I did equivalent exercises from the text, the old fashioned way.  The 
advantage of doing it online was you got immediate feedback whether your 
answer was right or wrong.  But you can still practice the concepts and do 
homework out of the textbook.  So there's a solution to test prep.  If the 
software is inaccessible go back to doing it out of the textbook and write 
your work by hand.

I think a situation  like this won't arise if a student is proactive and 
addressess accessibility issues before an exam comes or better yet right 
when the class starts.  I think such big accessibility issues like 
inaccessible
software that is a big part of the class so you can prep for the exam, 
should be addressed eary on.

Hth,
Ashley


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:23 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing


> This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I 
> will
> be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.
>
> If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't 
> get
> you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader 
> doesn't
> show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness, 
> what
> should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even 
> though
> you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
> who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
> one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3816 (20090201) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Feb  3 00:35:02 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 16:35:02 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
	<0841896ED8CD47C485A652EB29B6BFC0@Ashley>
Message-ID: <CD0A5AECAEDF419EAF6CB81BBBCA6081@D3ZCJ891>

Okay, first of all, hopefully this would not happen. On the off chance that 
it did:

As people who are blind and visually impaired, we have the right to have the 
same preparation for a test as everyone else. If, for some bizarre reason, 
let's just be silly and say that aliens stole all of the math books, and no 
one knew the material that was on the test, would they still be expected to 
take that part of the test? The key in a problem like this is timing and the 
way in which you address the problem. Notify the appropriate people *ASAP*. 
Your disabilities services office should stand behind you here in advocating 
for you. If not, then there is something wrong. Again, this hopefully would 
not happen.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing


Hi Jamie,

I'm not sure what to reccommend.  My best advice is to prevent such a
situation.  Have back up readers!

If your reader doesn't show up for a whole week before the exam, I think its
the student's responsibility to go to the professor, the dss office or
someone to find another reader.
Its the student's responsibility to learn the matterial and one should do
something about accessibility problems way before an exam.

Definately talk to the professor or write about the situation, but prior to
the exam!
I would say refusing to take the test because you could not prepare sends a
bad message.  So perhaps the student should take the exam and see how they
do.  If they fail the exam, that will teach them to be proactive and study
next time with a different reader or tutor.

I did not have issues with readers for preparing for tests in my one math
class I had.  But I did encounter the other part of this situation you
described.

I was in a math class and had to use a combo of large print and readers for
the text.  I could not get it in braille nor did rfb have it.
My class used an online assignment system called Course Compass.  As you
described, the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible.  I was
> not able to do the practice exercises and test preparation online like
> other students because Course Compass was not accessible.  I use jaws.
So I did equivalent exercises from the text, the old fashioned way.  The
advantage of doing it online was you got immediate feedback whether your
answer was right or wrong.  But you can still practice the concepts and do
homework out of the textbook.  So there's a solution to test prep.  If the
software is inaccessible go back to doing it out of the textbook and write
your work by hand.

I think a situation  like this won't arise if a student is proactive and
addressess accessibility issues before an exam comes or better yet right
when the class starts.  I think such big accessibility issues like
inaccessible
software that is a big part of the class so you can prep for the exam,
should be addressed eary on.

Hth,
Ashley


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:23 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing


> This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I
> will
> be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.
>
> If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't
> get
> you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader
> doesn't
> show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness,
> what
> should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even
> though
> you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
> who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
> one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 3816 (20090201) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 01:04:14 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:04:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <CD0A5AECAEDF419EAF6CB81BBBCA6081@D3ZCJ891>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
	<0841896ED8CD47C485A652EB29B6BFC0@Ashley>
	<CD0A5AECAEDF419EAF6CB81BBBCA6081@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <63af025c0902021704hbf27508u46d13a4950f68054@mail.gmail.com>

This *did* happen, to a friend of mine. That is why I'm trying to gather
other people's input. I've been telling them a lot of what everyone here is,
but they insist that I don't understand, so I'm trying to get as much input
as I can for them.

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:35 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini <
ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> Okay, first of all, hopefully this would not happen. On the off chance that
> it did:
>
> As people who are blind and visually impaired, we have the right to have
> the
> same preparation for a test as everyone else. If, for some bizarre reason,
> let's just be silly and say that aliens stole all of the math books, and no
> one knew the material that was on the test, would they still be expected to
> take that part of the test? The key in a problem like this is timing and
> the
> way in which you address the problem. Notify the appropriate people *ASAP*.
> Your disabilities services office should stand behind you here in
> advocating
> for you. If not, then there is something wrong. Again, this hopefully would
> not happen.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 1:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
>
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> I'm not sure what to reccommend.  My best advice is to prevent such a
> situation.  Have back up readers!
>
> If your reader doesn't show up for a whole week before the exam, I think
> its
> the student's responsibility to go to the professor, the dss office or
> someone to find another reader.
> Its the student's responsibility to learn the matterial and one should do
> something about accessibility problems way before an exam.
>
> Definately talk to the professor or write about the situation, but prior to
> the exam!
> I would say refusing to take the test because you could not prepare sends a
> bad message.  So perhaps the student should take the exam and see how they
> do.  If they fail the exam, that will teach them to be proactive and study
> next time with a different reader or tutor.
>
> I did not have issues with readers for preparing for tests in my one math
> class I had.  But I did encounter the other part of this situation you
> described.
>
> I was in a math class and had to use a combo of large print and readers for
> the text.  I could not get it in braille nor did rfb have it.
> My class used an online assignment system called Course Compass.  As you
> described, the software the math department uses for
> > practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible.  I was
> > not able to do the practice exercises and test preparation online like
> > other students because Course Compass was not accessible.  I use jaws.
> So I did equivalent exercises from the text, the old fashioned way.  The
> advantage of doing it online was you got immediate feedback whether your
> answer was right or wrong.  But you can still practice the concepts and do
> homework out of the textbook.  So there's a solution to test prep.  If the
> software is inaccessible go back to doing it out of the textbook and write
> your work by hand.
>
> I think a situation  like this won't arise if a student is proactive and
> addressess accessibility issues before an exam comes or better yet right
> when the class starts.  I think such big accessibility issues like
> inaccessible
> software that is a big part of the class so you can prep for the exam,
> should be addressed eary on.
>
> Hth,
> Ashley
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:23 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
>
>
> > This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I
> > will
> > be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.
> >
> > If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't
> > get
> > you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> > practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> > teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader
> > doesn't
> > show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness,
> > what
> > should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even
> > though
> > you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> > you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the
> professor
> > who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> > university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs
> of
> > one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature database 3816 (20090201) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From ginsenshi at mchsi.com  Tue Feb  3 01:56:29 2009
From: ginsenshi at mchsi.com (Sean Moore)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:56:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1233597602.9498.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.25.1233597602.9498.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <8DCB8BB0B88E44C69019F415FD82AAB0@SeanMooreLPTP>

Try using firefox and WebVisum 

The solving CAPCHA is a life saver.


Yours,
Sean Moore 
and the wonderful SEGDI Guide Dog Franklin

Email: linkstarwind at cox.net, ginsenshi at mchsi.com 
Website: www.BaltoX1.BraveHost.com
 
Instant Messaging
AIM: BaltoX1
Yahoo: Ginsenshi2001
MSN: Linkstarwind at cox.net
Skype: Ginsenshi 
  


From hope.paulos at maine.edu  Tue Feb  3 02:13:23 2009
From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 21:13:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
Message-ID: <20090203021350.NJUI10307.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote>

I tried to do that.  After installing firefox, how do you get 
visum?

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sean Moore" <ginsenshi at mchsi.com
>To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:56:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time

>Try using firefox and WebVisum

>The solving CAPCHA is a life saver.


>Yours,
>Sean Moore
>and the wonderful SEGDI Guide Dog Franklin

>Email: linkstarwind at cox.net, ginsenshi at mchsi.com
>Website: www.BaltoX1.BraveHost.com

>Instant Messaging
>AIM: BaltoX1
>Yahoo: Ginsenshi2001
>MSN: Linkstarwind at cox.net
>Skype: Ginsenshi


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul
os%40maine.edu


From JFreeh at nfb.org  Tue Feb  3 02:58:24 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:58:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind and Wal-Mart Foundation
 Partner to Promote Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <auto-000084232470@mailfront1.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
cdanielsen at nfb.org



National Federation of the Blind and Wal-Mart Foundation
Partner to Promote Braille Literacy





Wal-Mart Foundation to Sponsor Web Site
  for Exchange of Braille Reading Materials



Baltimore, Maryland (February 2, 2009): The National Federation of 
the Blind, the oldest and largest organization of blind people in the 
United States and the country's leading advocate for Braille 
literacy, and the Wal-Mart Foundation are partnering to bring Braille 
reading materials to those who need them.  The Wal-Mart Foundation is 
sponsoring NFB ShareBraille, a Web site to facilitate the exchange of 
Braille books through a community-run library.   NFB ShareBraille 
will help connect those who want Braille with those who want to give 
Braille away, thus increasing the life of Braille materials.  The Web 
site is located at <http://www.nfbsharebraille.org/>www.nfbsharebraille.org.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
said: "There are many contributing factors to the decline in Braille 
literacy among the nation's blind children and adults, but access to 
Braille reading materials is one such factor.  That is why the 
National Federation of the Blind has launched NFB ShareBraille to 
help students, professionals, and avid readers find the Braille 
materials they need for enlightenment, productivity, and success.  We 
deeply appreciate the Wal-Mart Foundation sponsoring this important effort."



Crosby Cromwell, manager of disability markets for Wal-Mart Stores, 
Inc., said: "Literacy is critically important to a fulfilling and 
productive life, and this is no less true for the blind than it is 
for anyone else.  That is why we are proud to work with the National 
Federation of the Blind to increase the availability of Braille books 
and to support literacy for all blind Americans."



NFB ShareBraille is part of the NFB's Braille Readers are Leaders 
campaign, a national initiative to promote the importance of reading 
and writing Braille for blind children and adults.  One of the 
campaign goals is to make Braille resources more available through 
online sharing of materials, enhanced production methods, and 
improved distribution. NFB ShareBraille is designed to help in 
meeting this goal by encouraging blind people to trade Braille books 
and build their <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />personal 
libraries.  Frequently, Braille materials in good condition are 
discarded because a new home for the materials cannot be found. NFB 
ShareBraille now offers a way for a community to close that gap and 
keep Braille reading materials circulating.



The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign kicked off in July of 2008 
with the unveiling of the design of a commemorative coin to be minted 
in 2009 in recognition of the two-hundredth anniversary of the birth 
of Louis Braille.  The coin, which will feature the word "Braille" 
written in tactile Braille, will be released on March 26, 2009.  The 
Wal-Mart Foundation plans to support other aspects of the Braille 
Readers are Leaders campaign in addition to sponsoring NFB 
ShareBraille.  For more information about the campaign, please visit 
<http://www.braille.org/>www.braille.org.



###







About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives 
through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading 
force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
the United States for the blind led by the blind.




From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 03:15:42 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:15:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4987B6DE.6040407@gmail.com>

I would totally refuse to take the exam and probably skip the ranks of 
bureaucracy and go right up to the dean/department head or even the 
president.  That being said, I tend to be extremely bold and very pushy 
about my rights.


Jamie Principato wrote:
> This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I will
> be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.
> 
> If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't get
> you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader doesn't
> show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness, what
> should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even though
> you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
> who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
> one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
> 


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 04:26:54 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:26:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
Message-ID: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Hi all,

We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon 
and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible 
textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who 
I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good 
example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a 
national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the 
closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my 
intervention.

I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is 
there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told 
California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that 
cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be 
a good starting place.  *grin*

While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are 
aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process 
used here in Oregon anyway:

1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).  
Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks 
to the DSO.
2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the 
book.
4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software 
such as ABBYY FineReader.
7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in 
theory.
9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a 
"natural" voice into mp3 files.
10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled 
textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week 
quarter.

The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books 
are not available any sooner than that.

The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions 
of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling 
interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages 
missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that 
my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized 
textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours 
produces significantly better output in that time frame than her 
predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per 
book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed 
books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational 
institutions I am aware of in my state.

One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but 
the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students 
because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a 
month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or 
won't provide the textbook in question.

And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible 
for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not 
often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume 
required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers 
will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only 
when a student who needs it has registered for the class and 
purchased a book and not always even then.

This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing 
electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that 
the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin 
doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean, 
correct, digital source.

With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure 
it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joseph


From cassonw at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 04:46:48 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:46:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
In-Reply-To: <20090203021350.NJUI10307.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote>
References: <20090203021350.NJUI10307.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902022046g1c4b9daeh9a6a3cd897543019@mail.gmail.com>

For the rest of us, what does this extension do?

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at maine.edu> wrote:

> I tried to do that.  After installing firefox, how do you get visum?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sean Moore" <ginsenshi at mchsi.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:56:29 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
>>
>
>  Try using firefox and WebVisum
>>
>
>  The solving CAPCHA is a life saver.
>>
>
>
>  Yours,
>> Sean Moore
>> and the wonderful SEGDI Guide Dog Franklin
>>
>
>  Email: linkstarwind at cox.net, ginsenshi at mchsi.com
>> Website: www.BaltoX1.BraveHost.com
>>
>
>  Instant Messaging
>> AIM: BaltoX1
>> Yahoo: Ginsenshi2001
>> MSN: Linkstarwind at cox.net
>> Skype: Ginsenshi
>>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>
> for nabs-l:
>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul
>>
> os%40maine.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From jekis at fastmail.us  Tue Feb  3 05:18:58 2009
From: jekis at fastmail.us (Justin Ekis)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:18:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <E60ED7E57F3542FC941BA89E3837D904@justinPC>

Joseph,

I'll do some checking myself since I should know what's happening here in 
California before I start school. But if you want more details on what 
you're referring to in California, you might send this to the cabs list as 
well, maybe someone there knows more about it.
 cabs-talk at nfbnet.org

Hope this helps, and I may write again in a day or so.

Justin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation


> Hi all,
>
> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon and I 
> suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible textbooks 
> here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who I should talk 
> to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good example of textbook 
> legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a national problem.  Some 
> universities solve it well enough, but the closest to that at an Oregon 
> university is the direct result of my intervention.
>
> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is 
> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told 
> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that cannot be 
> obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be a good 
> starting place.  *grin*
>
> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are aware 
> of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process used here in 
> Oregon anyway:
>
> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).  Books 
> cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks to the DSO.
> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the book.
> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software such as 
> ABBYY FineReader.
> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in 
> theory.
> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a "natural" 
> voice into mp3 files.
> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled textbooks 
> and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week quarter.
>
> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books are 
> not available any sooner than that.
>
> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions of 
> badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling 
> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages 
> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that my 
> DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized textbook 
> once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours produces 
> significantly better output in that time frame than her predecessor, but 
> it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>
> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per book. 
> The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed books, and this 
> is standard policy at five higher educational institutions I am aware of 
> in my state.
>
> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but the 
> better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students because as 
> bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a month for the 
> publishers to finally respond that they don't have or won't provide the 
> textbook in question.
>
> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible for 
> scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not often 
> have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume required for 
> graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers will not provide 
> electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only when a student who needs 
> it has registered for the class and purchased a book and not always even 
> then.
>
> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing electronic 
> copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that the electronic 
> books are available to the DSO immediately to begin doing whatever they 
> need to in order to adapt the book from a clean, correct, digital source.
>
> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure it 
> stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joseph
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jekis%40fastmail.us
> 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Feb  3 05:39:27 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 21:39:27 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>

Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of 
textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of 
the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word 
for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still 
have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to 
destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could 
not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have my 
book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation


Hi all,

We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
intervention.

I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
a good starting place.  *grin*

While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
used here in Oregon anyway:

1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
to the DSO.
2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
book.
4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
such as ABBYY FineReader.
7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
theory.
9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
"natural" voice into mp3 files.
10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
quarter.

The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
are not available any sooner than that.

The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.

The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
institutions I am aware of in my state.

One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
won't provide the textbook in question.

And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
purchased a book and not always even then.

This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
correct, digital source.

With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joseph

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From jekis at fastmail.us  Tue Feb  3 06:26:18 2009
From: jekis at fastmail.us (Justin Ekis)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:26:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <8365011010994B2E9AD82C08860571B4@justinPC>

I think I've found a perfect list of examples for you. I found the 
California bill, and just for kicks did a site specific Google search for 
that bill number on nfbnet.org and struck gold. This 2005 post on blindlaw 
has a great list of state laws, with direct links.

http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/2005-October/002063.html

That should help plenty.

Best regards,

Justin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation


> Hi all,
>
> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon and I 
> suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible textbooks 
> here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who I should talk 
> to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good example of textbook 
> legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a national problem.  Some 
> universities solve it well enough, but the closest to that at an Oregon 
> university is the direct result of my intervention.
>
> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is 
> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told 
> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that cannot be 
> obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be a good 
> starting place.  *grin*
>
> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are aware 
> of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process used here in 
> Oregon anyway:
>
> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).  Books 
> cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks to the DSO.
> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the book.
> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software such as 
> ABBYY FineReader.
> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in 
> theory.
> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a "natural" 
> voice into mp3 files.
> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled textbooks 
> and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week quarter.
>
> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books are 
> not available any sooner than that.
>
> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions of 
> badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling 
> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages 
> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that my 
> DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized textbook 
> once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours produces 
> significantly better output in that time frame than her predecessor, but 
> it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>
> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per book. 
> The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed books, and this 
> is standard policy at five higher educational institutions I am aware of 
> in my state.
>
> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but the 
> better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students because as 
> bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a month for the 
> publishers to finally respond that they don't have or won't provide the 
> textbook in question.
>
> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible for 
> scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not often 
> have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume required for 
> graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers will not provide 
> electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only when a student who needs 
> it has registered for the class and purchased a book and not always even 
> then.
>
> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing electronic 
> copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that the electronic 
> books are available to the DSO immediately to begin doing whatever they 
> need to in order to adapt the book from a clean, correct, digital source.
>
> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure it 
> stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joseph
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jekis%40fastmail.us
> 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 07:09:42 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:09:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <20090203070942.GD23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Nicole,

Of course it is ridiculous.  That's the point, essentially.  If the 
publishers cannot or will not provide an accessible version of the 
text to the local DSO, the book should not be used.

Providing the electronic book should be a prerequisite to ordering, 
not thing they can be asked for just prior to (or just after) the 
beginning of the term for a student who needs it.

The publishers may not be able to meet that request with every book 
they circulate today--but they could sure enough do it for all future 
books if a few states start adopting such laws if they want to sell 
their textbooks to universities!

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:39:27PM -0800, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of 
>textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of 
>the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word 
>for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still 
>have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to 
>destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could 
>not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have my 
>book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
>Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
>and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
>textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
>I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
>example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
>national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
>closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
>intervention.
>
>I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
>there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
>California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
>cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
>a good starting place.  *grin*
>
>While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
>aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
>used here in Oregon anyway:
>
>1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
>Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
>to the DSO.
>2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
>book.
>4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
>6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
>such as ABBYY FineReader.
>7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
>theory.
>9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
>"natural" voice into mp3 files.
>10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
>textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
>quarter.
>
>The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
>are not available any sooner than that.
>
>The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
>of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
>interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
>missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
>my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
>textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
>produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
>predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>
>The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
>book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
>books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
>institutions I am aware of in my state.
>
>One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
>the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
>because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
>month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
>won't provide the textbook in question.
>
>And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
>for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
>often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
>required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
>will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
>when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
>purchased a book and not always even then.
>
>This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
>electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
>the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
>doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
>correct, digital source.
>
>With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
>it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Joseph
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 08:31:06 2009
From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J. Bloomgren)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 01:31:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
References: <20090203021350.NJUI10307.hrndva-omta06.mail.rr.com@BrailleNote>
	<26d2dfeb0902022046g1c4b9daeh9a6a3cd897543019@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B1DC5992AFAD47D0B880BDC1F68B2AA2@Bird>

http://www.webvisum.com. Set up a free account with them and download the 
add-on.

Ben
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill" <cassonw at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 21:46
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time


> For the rest of us, what does this extension do?
>
> On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at maine.edu> wrote:
>
>> I tried to do that.  After installing firefox, how do you get visum?
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Sean Moore" <ginsenshi at mchsi.com
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:56:29 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Warning, YouTube sucks big time
>>>
>>
>>  Try using firefox and WebVisum
>>>
>>
>>  The solving CAPCHA is a life saver.
>>>
>>
>>
>>  Yours,
>>> Sean Moore
>>> and the wonderful SEGDI Guide Dog Franklin
>>>
>>
>>  Email: linkstarwind at cox.net, ginsenshi at mchsi.com
>>> Website: www.BaltoX1.BraveHost.com
>>>
>>
>>  Instant Messaging
>>> AIM: BaltoX1
>>> Yahoo: Ginsenshi2001
>>> MSN: Linkstarwind at cox.net
>>> Skype: Ginsenshi
>>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>
>> for nabs-l:
>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paul
>>>
>> os%40maine.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com 



From valandkayla at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 11:40:33 2009
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:40:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ichapters
Message-ID: <da706cb30902030340j247c90e2r376eb7549a852eb3@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, i don't know how many of you been following this post about
ichapters, but after seven hours of fittleing around and barowing a
few eyes, here are my results.
IChapters is 99.9 percent accessible as far as the site content goes.
the only tricky part is once you've created an account, installed the
viewer software (which is accessible), logged in, ordered your books,
and gone to your "My stuff" page, clicking on the open book link is
tricky because jaws displays it as a "page link" if you know what i
mean.  A sighted person, of course could use the mouse and click the
link, and what's supposed to happen is it asks you if you want to save
 or open it.  I save it, and it saves as a zip file.  I just need to
figure out more about jaws working with mouse related things.  All the
sighted person said was, "I dunno, i just clicked it, and the dialog
box appeared."

however, i digress.   once it's saved, if you go into the zipped
folder and click on the file, it will open up in adobe, but you'll
have to enter your username/password again, of course.
A problem i encountered was that i had adobe reader 8 and 9 installed,
and after looking on the adobe website, that's a big "NO!" because
apparently having two adobes conflict with programs, and the uncealer
won't work. so if anyone's planning to use this site and it's
features, learn from my mistake if you didn't already know that.
As i've said before, you can download chapter by chapter for about $2,
and the entire textbook for $70 or so.  you can also download the
audio copy as well, but i'm not too familiar with that, and i'm also
not too familiar with what publishers use this website.  For me, it
was my last resort to get a digital book that bookshare didn't have
and in a quick fashion.
If anyone has any questions about it, please let me know, and i'll try
to help out as much as i can.
the site again is:
http://www.ichapters.com
thanks.


From valandkayla at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 11:53:48 2009
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:53:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090203070942.GD23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
	<20090203070942.GD23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <da706cb30902030353q3d8c9340k3eeb0be01e120f1f@mail.gmail.com>

That is incredible that textbooks would be that bad, and here i
thought that the DSO office at my university was bad. I know this
doesn't help, but reguarding the publishers, and because i'm a fan of
IChapters now, i think all publishers should use IChapters. they still
get their money for the book; it's only useable up to a certain number
of days, it's accessible, and everyone wins. :)


On 2/3/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nicole,
>
> Of course it is ridiculous.  That's the point, essentially.  If the
> publishers cannot or will not provide an accessible version of the
> text to the local DSO, the book should not be used.
>
> Providing the electronic book should be a prerequisite to ordering,
> not thing they can be asked for just prior to (or just after) the
> beginning of the term for a student who needs it.
>
> The publishers may not be able to meet that request with every book
> they circulate today--but they could sure enough do it for all future
> books if a few states start adopting such laws if they want to sell
> their textbooks to universities!
>
> Joseph
>
> On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:39:27PM -0800, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>>Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of
>>textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of
>>
>>the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word
>>for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still
>>have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to
>>destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could
>>not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have
>> my
>>book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
>>Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
>>
>>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
>>and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
>>textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
>>I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
>>example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
>>national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
>>closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
>>intervention.
>>
>>I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
>>there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
>>California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
>>cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
>>a good starting place.  *grin*
>>
>>While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
>>aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
>>used here in Oregon anyway:
>>
>>1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
>>Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
>>to the DSO.
>>2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>>3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
>>book.
>>4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>>5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
>>6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
>>such as ABBYY FineReader.
>>7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>>8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
>>theory.
>>9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
>>"natural" voice into mp3 files.
>>10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
>>textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
>>quarter.
>>
>>The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
>>are not available any sooner than that.
>>
>>The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
>>of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
>>interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
>>missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
>>my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
>>textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
>>produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
>>predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>>
>>The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
>>book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
>>books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
>>institutions I am aware of in my state.
>>
>>One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
>>the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
>>because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
>>month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
>>won't provide the textbook in question.
>>
>>And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
>>for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
>>often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
>>required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
>>will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
>>when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
>>purchased a book and not always even then.
>>
>>This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
>>electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
>>the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
>>doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
>>correct, digital source.
>>
>>With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
>>it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Joseph
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>>
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>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>
> _______________________________________________
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From JFreeh at nfb.org  Tue Feb  3 14:48:05 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 08:48:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind and Onkyo Corporation
 Promote Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <auto-000086593425@mailfront2.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Christopher S. Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org



National Federation of the Blind and
Onkyo Corporation Promote Braille Literacy



Braille Essay Contest will Encourage Braille Usage Among the Blind





Baltimore, Maryland (February 3, 2009): The 
National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the 
oldest and largest organization of blind people 
in the United States, will administer the Onkyo 
Braille Literacy Essay Contest in the U.S. on 
behalf of the North American-Caribbean Region of 
the World Blind Union.  The essay contest, 
sponsored by Onkyo Corporation, a Japanese 
consumer electronics manufacturer, and the 
Braille Mainichi, part of the Mainichi Newspaper 
Company in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
/>Japan, was created to promote Braille literacy 
and to encourage the sharing of social and 
cultural information among blind and visually 
impaired persons.  Blind or visually impaired 
persons in the United States or Canada are eligible to apply.



  The essays must be written in Braille and must 
pertain either to how the individual gains 
knowledge or independence through Braille or to 
an individual concept about world peace from the 
viewpoint of persons with disabilities.  There 
will be two groups of competitors: a junior 
category for persons up to age twenty-five and a 
senior category for persons over age 
twenty-six.  Four cash prizes will be awarded at the end of the contest.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National 
Federation of the Blind, said: “We are very 
pleased to be a part of this important contest. 
There can be no doubt that the ability to read 
and write Braille competently and efficiently is 
the key to education, employment, and success for 
the blind.  Despite the undisputed value of 
Braille, however, only about 10 percent of blind 
children in the United States are learning 
it.  This contest will not only be a fun way for 
blind and visually-impaired persons to 
demonstrate the impact Braille has had on their 
lives but will also raise awareness of the 
importance of Braille literacy in every day applications.”



Administering the Onkyo Braille Literacy Essay 
Contest in the United States is a facet of the 
National Federation of the Blind’s “Braille 
Readers are Leaders” campaign, a national 
initiative to promote the importance of reading 
and writing Braille for blind children and 
adults.  The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign 
kicked off in July of 2008 with the unveiling of 
the design of a commemorative coin to be minted 
in 2009 in recognition of the two-hundredth 
anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille 
(1809–1852), the inventor of the reading and 
writing code for the blind that bears his name.



The contest begins on February 1, 2009, and ends 
on April 30, 2009.  All entries must be received by April 30.



For more information about the Onkyo Braille 
Literacy Essay Contest, including application 
information, please contact Trisha Tatam by phone 
at (410) 659-9314, ext. 2510 or by e-mail at 
<mailto:ttatam at nfb.org>ttatam at nfb.org. For more 
about the National Federation of the Blind’s 
Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, please 
visit <http://www.braille.org/>www.braille.org.





###





About the National Federation of the Blind


With more than 50,000 members, the National 
Federation of the Blind is the largest and most 
influential membership organization of blind 
people in the United States.  The NFB improves 
blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, 
research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and self-confidence.  It is the 
leading force in the blindness field today and 
the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 
the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and 
training center in the United States for the 
blind led by the blind.  Please visit our Web 
site: <http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org.




From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 16:55:10 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:55:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <498876EE.6010002@gmail.com>

That is similar to the process that occurs here in that I buy the books 
and take them to the office.  I am able to do this a month in advance so 
they usually have the books ordered from the publishers but I still 
shouldn't have to pay that retail price for a book when I'm getting it 
electronically.  Electronic books should be cheaper.  Often, however, 
the publishers don't respond in a timely fassion and they mess up.  So 
yes there needs to be better legislation.  If they have to chop up my 
book, either because they don't have it in their database or the 
publisher isn't cooperating, they do not rebind it and I am unable to 
return it.  I am still waiting for my Spanish textbook and the contact I 
was given at the publisher is not answering or getting back with me.

Robby

T. Joseph Carter wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon and 
> I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible 
> textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who I 
> should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good example of 
> textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a national 
> problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the closest to 
> that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my intervention.
> 
> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is 
> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told 
> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that cannot 
> be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be a good 
> starting place.  *grin*
> 
> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are aware 
> of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process used here 
> in Oregon anyway:
> 
> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).  Books 
> cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks to the DSO.
> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the book.
> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software such 
> as ABBYY FineReader.
> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in 
> theory.
> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a 
> "natural" voice into mp3 files.
> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled textbooks 
> and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week quarter.
> 
> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books are 
> not available any sooner than that.
> 
> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions of 
> badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling 
> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages 
> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that my 
> DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized textbook 
> once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours produces 
> significantly better output in that time frame than her predecessor, but 
> it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
> 
> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per 
> book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed books, 
> and this is standard policy at five higher educational institutions I am 
> aware of in my state.
> 
> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but the 
> better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students because 
> as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a month for 
> the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or won't provide 
> the textbook in question.
> 
> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible 
> for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not 
> often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume required 
> for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers will not 
> provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only when a student 
> who needs it has registered for the class and purchased a book and not 
> always even then.
> 
> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing electronic 
> copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that the 
> electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin doing 
> whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean, correct, 
> digital source.
> 
> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure it 
> stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joseph
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com 
> 
> 


From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 16:57:01 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 11:57:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <4988775D.3000204@gmail.com>

What is this NIMAS thing that they are using for secondary schools? 
Can't we work on the ability to use that?


Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
> Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of 
> textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of 
> the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word 
> for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still 
> have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to 
> destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could 
> not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have my 
> book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
> and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
> textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
> I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
> example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
> national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
> closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
> intervention.
> 
> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
> cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
> a good starting place.  *grin*
> 
> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
> aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
> used here in Oregon anyway:
> 
> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
> Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
> to the DSO.
> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
> book.
> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
> such as ABBYY FineReader.
> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
> theory.
> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
> "natural" voice into mp3 files.
> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
> textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
> quarter.
> 
> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
> are not available any sooner than that.
> 
> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
> of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
> my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
> textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
> produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
> predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
> 
> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
> book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
> books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
> institutions I am aware of in my state.
> 
> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
> the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
> because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
> month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
> won't provide the textbook in question.
> 
> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
> for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
> often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
> required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
> will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
> when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
> purchased a book and not always even then.
> 
> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
> electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
> the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
> doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
> correct, digital source.
> 
> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
> it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Joseph
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
> 


From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 20:06:16 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:06:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4988a3a8.050cc00a.4949.4c0d@mx.google.com>

Hi, 

If I were in that situation, and the reader didn't show up, the first time
that happened I would be in contact with that person. If it turned out they
wouldn't be able to come at all before the exam or whatever it was, I would
take it in my own hands to remedy the situation and find someone else from
whom I could obtain the same help. I might also talk to the professor to see
if I could get help from him/her, since that's what he/she is there for and
gets paid to do. 

Take care, 

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 





From cassonw at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 21:23:10 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:23:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <4988775D.3000204@gmail.com>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
	<4988775D.3000204@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902031323s2c6ec01er59248abc60ea1545@mail.gmail.com>

I have been told that about 4 years ago oregon tryed to pass legistlation
similar to this and it was blocked by the publishers.
Bill

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Robert Spangler
<spangler.robert at gmail.com>wrote:

> What is this NIMAS thing that they are using for secondary schools? Can't
> we work on the ability to use that?
>
>
> Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>
>> Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of
>> textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of
>> the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word
>> for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still
>> have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to
>> destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could
>> not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have my
>> book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" <
>> carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
>> and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
>> textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
>> I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
>> example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
>> national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
>> closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
>> intervention.
>>
>> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
>> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
>> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
>> cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
>> a good starting place.  *grin*
>>
>> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
>> aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
>> used here in Oregon anyway:
>>
>> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
>> Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
>> to the DSO.
>> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
>> book.
>> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
>> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
>> such as ABBYY FineReader.
>> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
>> theory.
>> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
>> "natural" voice into mp3 files.
>> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
>> textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
>> quarter.
>>
>> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
>> are not available any sooner than that.
>>
>> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
>> of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
>> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
>> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
>> my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
>> textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
>> produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
>> predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>>
>> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
>> book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
>> books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
>> institutions I am aware of in my state.
>>
>> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
>> the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
>> because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
>> month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
>> won't provide the textbook in question.
>>
>> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
>> for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
>> often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
>> required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
>> will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
>> when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
>> purchased a book and not always even then.
>>
>> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
>> electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
>> the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
>> doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
>> correct, digital source.
>>
>> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
>> it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 21:50:42 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:50:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <da706cb30902030353q3d8c9340k3eeb0be01e120f1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
	<20090203070942.GD23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<da706cb30902030353q3d8c9340k3eeb0be01e120f1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090203215042.GA26800@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Val pal,

I think I disagree about everybody winning with ichapters.  The 
time-limited nature of the textbooks is, I think, the flaw.  That 
seems like a great idea for a class that is not part of your major 
that you would otherwise use for a class and then sell back to the 
bookstore, but it does not really address books that you will use and 
retain for a professional career.

I am in my second year of my graduate program and I would not sell 
more than one of the textbooks I have purchased in the past two years 
because I use them again and again.  The one book I would sell is one 
I would happily be rid of, but I would replace it with another, 
similar textbook that was written by someone who knew what they were 
talking about, as it were.  *grin*

You know me though--this problem is fixable, and I will see it fixed 
one way or another.  I've already started changing one university.  I 
am now looking to change the state.  National standards are beginning 
to be sought even by publishers since so many states now have 
different laws with which the publishers must cooperate.  Because the 
laws are different, publishers have begun seeking a national 
standard.  Not enough that it's going to happen yet, of course, but 
it will happen eventually.  We're not at critical mass yet, and if we 
get more state laws, it'll happen sooner.

Joseph

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 05:53:48AM -0600, Valerie Gibson wrote:
>That is incredible that textbooks would be that bad, and here i
>thought that the DSO office at my university was bad. I know this
>doesn't help, but reguarding the publishers, and because i'm a fan of
>IChapters now, i think all publishers should use IChapters. they still
>get their money for the book; it's only useable up to a certain number
>of days, it's accessible, and everyone wins. :)
>
>
>On 2/3/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nicole,
>>
>> Of course it is ridiculous.  That's the point, essentially.  If the
>> publishers cannot or will not provide an accessible version of the
>> text to the local DSO, the book should not be used.
>>
>> Providing the electronic book should be a prerequisite to ordering,
>> not thing they can be asked for just prior to (or just after) the
>> beginning of the term for a student who needs it.
>>
>> The publishers may not be able to meet that request with every book
>> they circulate today--but they could sure enough do it for all future
>> books if a few states start adopting such laws if they want to sell
>> their textbooks to universities!
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:39:27PM -0800, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>>>Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of
>>>textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of
>>>
>>>the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word
>>>for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still
>>>have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to
>>>destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could
>>>not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have
>>> my
>>>book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
>>>and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
>>>textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
>>>I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
>>>example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
>>>national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
>>>closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
>>>intervention.
>>>
>>>I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
>>>there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
>>>California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
>>>cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
>>>a good starting place.  *grin*
>>>
>>>While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
>>>aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
>>>used here in Oregon anyway:
>>>
>>>1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
>>>Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
>>>to the DSO.
>>>2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>>>3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
>>>book.
>>>4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>>>5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
>>>6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
>>>such as ABBYY FineReader.
>>>7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>>>8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
>>>theory.
>>>9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
>>>"natural" voice into mp3 files.
>>>10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
>>>textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
>>>quarter.
>>>
>>>The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
>>>are not available any sooner than that.
>>>
>>>The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
>>>of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
>>>interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
>>>missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
>>>my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
>>>textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
>>>produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
>>>predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>>>
>>>The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
>>>book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
>>>books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
>>>institutions I am aware of in my state.
>>>
>>>One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
>>>the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
>>>because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
>>>month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
>>>won't provide the textbook in question.
>>>
>>>And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
>>>for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
>>>often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
>>>required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
>>>will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
>>>when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
>>>purchased a book and not always even then.
>>>
>>>This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
>>>electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
>>>the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
>>>doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
>>>correct, digital source.
>>>
>>>With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
>>>it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Tue Feb  3 22:33:24 2009
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:33:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a701c9864f$6d8b3db0$0501a8c0@Serene>

I'd try writing to the prof. about the situation.  I think it's harder for 
us to find Math readers than other subjects.  (I never took Math in college, 
but one of my friends did and was lucky enough to have a reader who happened 
to be one of his friends.)  Although the student could've asked for a reader 
among his/her classmates, that might not be as good for Math cuz the 
students in the class may or may not be good enough at Math to be a good 
reader.  It doesn't seem fair for the blind student in question to take the 
exam without properly studying, especially cuz it seems not to be the 
student's fault.  It seems to me the student couldn't really study for the 
exam without the reader.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:23 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing


> This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this question so that I 
> will
> be better able and more equipped to help someone that means a lot to me.
>
> If you're a student in a math class and the university you attend can't 
> get
> you a brailled textbook, and the software the math department uses for
> practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all accessible, and your
> teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and your reader 
> doesn't
> show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly due to illness, 
> what
> should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on test day even 
> though
> you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to take the test until
> you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to write to the professor
> who assigned the reader about the situation even though at such a big
> university it seems like the professors just don't care about the needs of
> one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Tue Feb  3 22:41:50 2009
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:41:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
	<web-13371584@mailback1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <00d001c98650$9af03930$0501a8c0@Serene>

I disagree on some of your points.  First, it's harder to find a good reader for Math or Science than, let's say, English.  That's probably why the prof. assigned the reader.  Also, I guess, Braille books are available to college students in some states, but aren't in others.  How do we really know what the student in question did or didn't do to to try to get the book?  Finally, it simply doesn't seem to me that this is the blind student's fault cuz the reader couldn't show up, possibly because of illness.  Taking the test at a later time, after the student has studied properly, doesn't seem to me to be asking people to let us do less because we're blind.  It seems to me that it's being fair and giving adaquate time to study.  I'd think that, if a sighted student got sick, he/she would be given adaquate time to prepare.  In this case, illness made it so the reader wasn't available.


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Jacobson 
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
  Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing


  Michael,

  When you are a student, it is a time to learn, not just what your professors want you to learn, but also how you will deal with situations when you are on the job.  As serious as it may be, making a mistake and failing a class is not the same thing as not completing a task on the job.  Forgetting the legal implications for a moment, it makes sense for those of us who are blind to develop our skills in managing readers and knowing how to check on the availability of textbooks while we are in school when failing usually means you can try again.  I don't really know what I would do if I were in your situation right now, but my heart goes out to you.  Some of what you should do depends upon how much of the material you have picked up in class, and how far your into the class.  If you have taken good notes on the lectures, you might still do all right, and you can try to pull your grade up from other tests.  However, in the long run, I would work on developing my own set of readers.  All situations are different, but I am a little surprised that a professor would assign a reader.  You also need to find out why a braille textbook is not available.  Did someone drop the ball, dis a publisher not provide an electronic file, did they provide an electronic file that wasn't useful, was the book available somewhere else but didn't get shipped, and on and on.  If you know the reason, next time you will have a better idea of which questions to ask maybe even before the class starts, to anticipate problems that might come up.

  This isn't attempting to address what is fair or what is legal, the attempt is to be practical.  If you don't complete a task on the job because a leader is sick, that will reflect on you and your ability to get your tasks done.  There is no law that says an employer must let you do less because you are blind but pay you the same.  Some employers will be somewhat understanding, but in the end, the responsibility is yours.  When in school, things are a little different because of what the law says and because of the existence of DSS offices and the like.  Still, taking a hand in monitoring the progress on your textbooks, making sure you have backup readers, even if it isn't your legal responsibility, will serve you well in the future.

  Best regards,

  Steve Jacobson


  On Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:23:29 -0500
   Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
  > This is more a survey than anything. I'm asking this 
  >question so that I will
  > be better able and more equipped to help someone that 
  >means a lot to me.
  > 
  > If you're a student in a math class and the university 
  >you attend can't get
  > you a brailled textbook, and the software the math 
  >department uses for
  > practice exercises and test preparation isn't at all 
  >accessible, and your
  > teacher assigns you a reader but no back-up reader, and 
  >your reader doesn't
  > show up for the entire week before a big exam, possibly 
  >due to illness, what
  > should you do? Should you still go and take the exam on 
  >test day even though
  > you couldn't adequately prepare? Should you refuse to 
  >take the test until
  > you are able to prepare properly? Should you try to 
  >write to the professor
  > who assigned the reader about the situation even though 
  >at such a big
  > university it seems like the professors just don't care 
  >about the needs of
  > one of thousands of students? Please help... :(
  > _______________________________________________
  > nabs-l mailing list
  > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
  >account info for nabs-l:
  > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
  > 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
  http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net

From serenacucco at verizon.net  Tue Feb  3 23:04:48 2009
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:04:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<498876EE.6010002@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>

One thing: it's a good rule of thumb to buy 2 copies of all your books you 
know aren't available from RFB and D or Bookshare, so you can scan one and 
use one with your readers.  I always bought mine at the same price as other 
students from the college bookstore, although I bought them used, as long as 
there wasn't any handwriting, I. E. former students' notes, in them.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Spangler" <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation


> That is similar to the process that occurs here in that I buy the books 
> and take them to the office.  I am able to do this a month in advance so 
> they usually have the books ordered from the publishers but I still 
> shouldn't have to pay that retail price for a book when I'm getting it 
> electronically.  Electronic books should be cheaper.  Often, however, the 
> publishers don't respond in a timely fassion and they mess up.  So yes 
> there needs to be better legislation.  If they have to chop up my book, 
> either because they don't have it in their database or the publisher isn't 
> cooperating, they do not rebind it and I am unable to return it.  I am 
> still waiting for my Spanish textbook and the contact I was given at the 
> publisher is not answering or getting back with me.
>
> Robby
>
> T. Joseph Carter wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon and 
>> I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible 
>> textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who I 
>> should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good example of 
>> textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a national 
>> problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the closest to that 
>> at an Oregon university is the direct result of my intervention.
>>
>> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is 
>> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told 
>> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that cannot 
>> be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be a good 
>> starting place.  *grin*
>>
>> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are aware 
>> of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process used here 
>> in Oregon anyway:
>>
>> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).  Books 
>> cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks to the DSO.
>> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the 
>> book.
>> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
>> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software such as 
>> ABBYY FineReader.
>> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in 
>> theory.
>> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a "natural" 
>> voice into mp3 files.
>> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled textbooks 
>> and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week quarter.
>>
>> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books are 
>> not available any sooner than that.
>>
>> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions of 
>> badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling 
>> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages 
>> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that my 
>> DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized textbook 
>> once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours produces 
>> significantly better output in that time frame than her predecessor, but 
>> it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>>
>> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per book. 
>> The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed books, and 
>> this is standard policy at five higher educational institutions I am 
>> aware of in my state.
>>
>> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but the 
>> better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students because 
>> as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a month for 
>> the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or won't provide 
>> the textbook in question.
>>
>> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible for 
>> scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not often 
>> have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume required for 
>> graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers will not provide 
>> electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only when a student who 
>> needs it has registered for the class and purchased a book and not always 
>> even then.
>>
>> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing electronic 
>> copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that the electronic 
>> books are available to the DSO immediately to begin doing whatever they 
>> need to in order to adapt the book from a clean, correct, digital source.
>>
>> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure it 
>> stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Tue Feb  3 23:19:12 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:19:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <00d001c98650$9af03930$0501a8c0@Serene>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>	<web-13371584@mailback1.g2host.com>
	<00d001c98650$9af03930$0501a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <4988d0a5.48c3f10a.2f7f.ffffdf35@mx.google.com>

True, the reader wasn't available, but that's no excuse, in my opinion, for
not taking it upon yourself and being proactive about the situation and
finding someone else to do the job. It's called advocating for yourself. You
shouldn't lay blame on someone else for a situation that you're involved in.
It's your exam and your grade, and by taking an active part in helping
prepare for it, you're showing the professor that you really are interested
in his/her class. 

Just my thoughts, 

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 





From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 00:07:04 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:07:04 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0902031323s2c6ec01er59248abc60ea1545@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
	<4988775D.3000204@gmail.com>
	<26d2dfeb0902031323s2c6ec01er59248abc60ea1545@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090204000704.GB26800@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I think they won't this time.  Four years ago was a difficult time 
for the NFB in Oregon and we were not really a very strong force at 
that time.  We're becoming stronger, and honestly I can make a better 
case for it than other people have in the past:

Simply put, the public higher education system is going to save money 
by the passage of the legislation I intend to propose.  A lot of 
money.  One of the smaller public university probably spends 
$7-10,000 every term producing electronic textbooks of such low 
quality that they are unusable and could/should get them into legal 
trouble under section 504.  One of the larger universities in Oregon 
probably pays far more.

The publishers can spend a few tens of dollars to save the state 
university system many thousands.  Oh, and the quality would be 
vastly improved as well.

Joseph

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 01:23:10PM -0800, Bill wrote:
>I have been told that about 4 years ago oregon tryed to pass legistlation
>similar to this and it was blocked by the publishers.
>Bill
>
>On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Robert Spangler
><spangler.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> What is this NIMAS thing that they are using for secondary schools? Can't
>> we work on the ability to use that?
>>
>>
>> Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>>
>>> Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of
>>> textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of
>>> the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word
>>> for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still
>>> have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to
>>> destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could
>>> not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have my
>>> book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.


From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 00:57:57 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:57:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Readers and Testing
In-Reply-To: <00a701c9864f$6d8b3db0$0501a8c0@Serene>
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a701c9864f$6d8b3db0$0501a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <4988e809.21a47e0a.0881.ffffe8e5@mx.google.com>

It isn't the student's fault that the reader was ill, no, but I would put
partial blame on the student for not pursuing another avenue to get the
studying done. That definitely wouldn't fly in a work situation.

Liz

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 





From iamantonio at cox.net  Wed Feb  4 02:16:16 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:16:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Recording Lectures... Not allowed?
References: <63af025c0901222214y633ac081v25958847ee033639@mail.gmail.com><346F73860D7A4F2FAF3F321637865D8E@D3ZCJ891><8E48EB21FC914B9DB0AD61566400A438@usore540475a8f><e37a61680901231017g4ec0e27fjcbf6d5cce3731cdf@mail.gmail.com><3CFA913160914A6AAC977C8DFADFE69E@UNCGL3A8463><3E7E8A9A28B8403F82EEC71F27E68C4C@TINYLAPTOP><63af025c0901231841g7cdf750fmb9ef1960004958d1@mail.gmail.com>
	<7949e5e20901231926g6d69762elbe8d05f031692355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c9866e$8fe90f30$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello Jamie,

Perhaps I am a little too late on chiming in on thsi thread, but I offer 
this as my take on your professor's concerns.

First, your professor need not wory about being misrepresented on the web. 
Even if you were to sellectively post things, and edit his speech, which you 
are not, your professor should not wory. That is, if he conducts himself 
with maturity and profesionalism, he should not wory.

A person with time and skill can make just about anyone say anything, so I 
could see where he's coming from.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6805063692754011230&q=bush&total=165832&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

The fact he's woried about the internet raises a flag that he may know he 
may be saying objectionable things, but of course you need not bring this to 
his attention.

Other suggestions about signing a contract yourself stating that you will 
not distribute, or otherwise make his recorded lectures available makes 
sense.

Good luck in this matter.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Recording Lectures... Not allowed?


> Jamie,
>
> My only real thought for addressing his concerns about his words being
> distorted is to inform him that you will be only using his lectures
> for personal use, and not distributing them, meaning that you would
> have no reason to put them on the Internet.  If he doesn't provide an
> alternative like a podcast to what your student services office has
> deemed a reasonable accomodation, I don't see that he has a leg to
> stand on, especially if you get a letter of accomodation as others on
> the list have suggested.
> Courtney
>
> On 1/23/09, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
>> That information will help me a lot when I put together a letter to 
>> Student
>> Services and to the professor. Here he isn't worried about selling his
>> lectures. He doesn't produce them for publishing purposes, nor does he
>> record them himself. He told me that he doesn't want things he says to 
>> get
>> wildly distorted and end up on the internet. I'm not sure how to address
>> that one.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Sarah J. Blake
>> <sarah at growingstrong.org>wrote:
>>
>>> Many students with good note-taking skills use a recorder as a
>>> supplementary method. There are many reasons why this can be helpful.
>>> Being
>>> able to go back through a recording can enable me to write down material
>>> that was read from a handout or PowerPoint very quickly during 
>>> class.Other
>>> students would have the time to write this information down while other
>>> discussion is going on or to take notes in the margins. Having a copy of
>>> the
>>> handout is helpful; but this does not allow for putting together how the
>>> handout and the other information might be related. Depending on a
>>> professor's lecture style, this kind of information can be extremely
>>> valuable.
>>>
>>> A recorder has also been invaluable to me in the event that my 
>>> technology
>>> broke down or battery died in the middle of class. It has not happened
>>> often
>>> but has happened a time or two. I am a good slate user; but there are
>>> certain advantages in using a laptop for note-taking.
>>>
>>> Occasionally I have run into a professor who was lecturing using 
>>> material
>>> that was intended for publication.Once in a while such a professor will
>>> ask
>>> not to be recorded. Sometimes professors have asked me to sign a form
>>> saying
>>> that I will not distribute the recordings. I am perfectly happy to do
>>> this.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm protected by SpamBrave
>>> http://www.spambrave.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 02:22:35 2009
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 20:22:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is On The Air Right Now
References: <63af025c0902021123x44a47ca9q28965c8a469f8ec3@mail.gmail.com><00a701c9864f$6d8b3db0$0501a8c0@Serene>
	<4988e809.21a47e0a.0881.ffffe8e5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <53FF12733C78434DAE46459D65E9FC47@homeuser>

We started at 9 PM eastern, and will go for the next couple of hours or so, 
give or take. So to listen, go to
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html
>From David 



From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Wed Feb  4 03:26:34 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:26:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <20090203222634.ytdiqao7c4gcg48w@webmail.utoronto.ca>

Hi,
I'l tell you what happened to me here in Toronto. Be warned: don't let  
it happen to you.
1. I registered with my dso. They didn't tell me I had to register  
with another office until August. This office allows me to get books  
in an alternate format, so without my registration the process of book  
translation couldn't begin.
2. I figured I had to buy my books (sighted students do, why shouldn't  
we?) but assumed my dso advisor would find out what books I needed and  
begin the process of conversion over the summer. I wasn't told  
anything to the contrary.
3. I didn't find out what books I needed until I read my class's  
course outlines. I bought my books during the first week of class, and  
then the translation began.
4. As I am studying math, the Braille books began to arrive in  
October, just before Canadian Thanksgiving - two months into the  
school year. I am still receiving books, as they were translated in  
two different cities, one of which was in a different province.
5. As I couldn't properly study math for that time, I am still catching up.
YES, my friends, something national or international, or something at  
all, has to be done to improve this process. A lot of my trouble arose  
out of my lack of knowledge, which is totally unacceptable. This is  
what I recommend  to students now:
1. Find out ASAP what courses you will take.
2. Talk to your registrar and see if you can get signed up before  
anyone else. You're guaranteed a spot and therefore textbook  
production can begin.
3. Speak to the prospective professors or deans regarding the courses  
you wish to take, explain your accommodations, and ask for textbook  
information.
6. Buy the books, and submit them to whichever office you need to.  
Make sure they've been sent away as soon as possible.
I hope these things will help future students so your first year is  
not the disaster mine was.
As you can tell, I'm glad someone brought this up. lol
Thank you very much for reading my tyrade.
Sarah


Quoting "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>:

> Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, publishers of
> textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic copy of
> the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text or word
> for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I still
> have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to
> destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE could
> not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them have my
> book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
> and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
> textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
> I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
> example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
> national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
> closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
> intervention.
>
> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
> cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
> a good starting place.  *grin*
>
> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
> aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
> used here in Oregon anyway:
>
> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
> Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
> to the DSO.
> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
> book.
> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
> such as ABBYY FineReader.
> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
> theory.
> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
> "natural" voice into mp3 files.
> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
> textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
> quarter.
>
> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
> are not available any sooner than that.
>
> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
> of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
> my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
> textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
> produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
> predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>
> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
> book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
> books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
> institutions I am aware of in my state.
>
> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
> the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
> because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
> month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
> won't provide the textbook in question.
>
> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
> for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
> often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
> required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
> will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
> when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
> purchased a book and not always even then.
>
> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
> electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
> the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
> doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
> correct, digital source.
>
> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
> it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joseph
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>





From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  4 04:08:10 2009
From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:08:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube update
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS3E68BF3475FCBDBDB2FB8BAC30@phx.gbl>

hey all,
I got an update for you about YouTube.
I finally got a chance to find someone who can read the darn captcha thing.
so, finally my account is created.
I uploaded my first video just out of curiosity.
Check it out at: http://youtube.com/watch?v=CK72uVJsIHI&feature=channel_page

feel free to make any comments if you have a YouTube account.
I always wanted to have a YouTube account just to post cool stuff since I have spare time to enjoy when I can.

Thank you very much


priscilla

From CDanielsen at nfb.org  Wed Feb  4 06:03:26 2009
From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 00:03:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind to Attend World Bank
	Workshop
Message-ID: <auto-000086744099@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear Fellow Federationists:

Dr. Fredric Schroeder, first vice president of the National 
Federation of the Blind, will address the World Bank workshop: 
"Actuality of Braille in Different Socioeconomic Settings," on 
February 10, 2009, at World Bank headquarters in Washington, DC.  The 
workshop, sponsored by the World Bank HDNSP, Education for All - Fast 
Track Initiative, GPDD, and the National Federation of the Blind, is 
intended to highlight the usability and affordability of Braille in 
all socioeconomic settings. The event will focus on current use of 
Braille in education in Africa and Latin America, with live 
interviews via videoconference with Kampala, Montevideo, and Sao Paulo.



Registration is required for the workshop and registered guests may 
use the 1818 H Street NW entrance to the World Bank headquarters.  To 
register, please contact Merced Blanquita Doroteo at 
<mailto:Mswan at worldbank.org>Mswan at worldbank.org.




From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 11:15:20 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:15:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<498876EE.6010002@gmail.com>
	<015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I think it is unreasonable for blind students to be expected to pay 
$6-800 for books every term.  That's what you advocate, and frankly 
financial aid doesn't pay for everything as it is.

On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 06:04:48PM -0500, Serena wrote:
> One thing: it's a good rule of thumb to buy 2 copies of all your books 
> you know aren't available from RFB and D or Bookshare, so you can scan 
> one and use one with your readers.  I always bought mine at the same 
> price as other students from the college bookstore, although I bought 
> them used, as long as there wasn't any handwriting, I. E. former 
> students' notes, in them.
>
> Serena


From jess28 at samobile.net  Wed Feb  4 12:55:05 2009
From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica Trask)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:55:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
Message-ID: <20090204125505.26646.95825@biff.serotek.com>

Hi Everyone,
It highly depends on what state your in the United State because New 
York State has a pretty good law if it's still on the books about 
accessible text books. This is the link for the New York Law on 
Accessible Textbooks. Chapter 219 of its Education Laws of 2003. I hope 
this helps those of you that are trying to a Accessible Textbook 
Legislation passed in your states.

-- 
Jessica Trask
www. samobile.net/users/jess28
Facebook Jessica Trask

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 18:08:14 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:08:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] State Farm Youth Advisery Board
Message-ID: <E3DFF6E1D0CF490595D04CE3B31D5838@MonkeyPaw>

 

 

Applications are now available for the State Farm Youth Advisory Board at
www.statefarmyab.com/apply.php.  The State Farm Youth Advisory Board is one
of the nations' most exciting opportunities for youth empowerment and
development.  The board is comprised of a diverse group of 30 young people,
ages 17-20, chosen from each of 12 U.S. State Farm zones which cover all
states within the United States, and one State Farm Canadian zone (Alberta,
New Brunswick, or Ontario provinces only).  Three at-large members are
nominated by State Farm's national service-learning partners.  Scholarships
are provided to Youth Advisory Board members.   

 

Members of this Board play an important leadership role in creating and
overseeing a $5 million a year signature service-learning initiative which
addresses pressing issues of importance to youth, State Farm, and
communities across North America.  The Youth Board collectively helps
identify these issues; develops the grant making processes for catalyzing
large-scale, student-driven service-learning projects that systemically
address the issues; selects the programs to receive grants; provides
technical assistance and oversight to site grantees; and assists with the
communications and outreach of the initiative.  The Youth Board interacts
with senior State Farm leaders in presenting and defending an analysis of
their grant-making decisions.   

Application must be postmarked March 31, 2009

 

 

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie



From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 19:29:51 2009
From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:29:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] NLS qualifications
Message-ID: <729974.91252.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I'm curious. If someone has 20/70 and are considered low vision (definitely visually impaired since they can only see out of one eye), and have a difficult time with small print even though their acuity is very good (eye strain can come a lot easier since you only have one eye working), it's still out of their qualification guidelines and I'm wondering why. You have to be legally blind to be on their service, essentially, low vision doesn't count. Any ideas on that one? I'm curious. 



      

From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Wed Feb  4 20:39:16 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:39:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<498876EE.6010002@gmail.com> <015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>
	<20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <20090204153916.s8n3vd89v8gcccwg@webmail.utoronto.ca>

I can understand paying the retail price for books, as any other  
student has to do that. Yes it costs a lot, but it costs a lot for  
sighted students too and how can we expect to be treated equally if we  
don't do at least what our sighted peers do. However, paying more to  
get the books in an alternate format is stupid in my opinion - that  
should never happen.
Sarah

Quoting "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>:

> I think it is unreasonable for blind students to be expected to pay
> $6-800 for books every term.  That's what you advocate, and frankly
> financial aid doesn't pay for everything as it is.
>
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 06:04:48PM -0500, Serena wrote:
>> One thing: it's a good rule of thumb to buy 2 copies of all your   
>> books you know aren't available from RFB and D or Bookshare, so you  
>>  can scan one and use one with your readers.  I always bought mine   
>> at the same price as other students from the college bookstore,   
>> although I bought them used, as long as there wasn't any   
>> handwriting, I. E. former students' notes, in them.
>>
>> Serena
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca





From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 21:07:31 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:07:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090203215042.GA26800@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>	<20090203070942.GD23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>	<da706cb30902030353q3d8c9340k3eeb0be01e120f1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090203215042.GA26800@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <498A0393.70101@gmail.com>

what state are you trying to change?  I would like to work on changing 
Ohio so if you would have any advice please share.


T. Joseph Carter wrote:
> Val pal,
> 
> I think I disagree about everybody winning with ichapters.  The 
> time-limited nature of the textbooks is, I think, the flaw.  That seems 
> like a great idea for a class that is not part of your major that you 
> would otherwise use for a class and then sell back to the bookstore, but 
> it does not really address books that you will use and retain for a 
> professional career.
> 
> I am in my second year of my graduate program and I would not sell more 
> than one of the textbooks I have purchased in the past two years because 
> I use them again and again.  The one book I would sell is one I would 
> happily be rid of, but I would replace it with another, similar textbook 
> that was written by someone who knew what they were talking about, as it 
> were.  *grin*
> 
> You know me though--this problem is fixable, and I will see it fixed one 
> way or another.  I've already started changing one university.  I am now 
> looking to change the state.  National standards are beginning to be 
> sought even by publishers since so many states now have different laws 
> with which the publishers must cooperate.  Because the laws are 
> different, publishers have begun seeking a national standard.  Not 
> enough that it's going to happen yet, of course, but it will happen 
> eventually.  We're not at critical mass yet, and if we get more state 
> laws, it'll happen sooner.
> 
> Joseph
> 
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 05:53:48AM -0600, Valerie Gibson wrote:
>> That is incredible that textbooks would be that bad, and here i
>> thought that the DSO office at my university was bad. I know this
>> doesn't help, but reguarding the publishers, and because i'm a fan of
>> IChapters now, i think all publishers should use IChapters. they still
>> get their money for the book; it's only useable up to a certain number
>> of days, it's accessible, and everyone wins. :)
>>
>>
>> On 2/3/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Nicole,
>>>
>>> Of course it is ridiculous.  That's the point, essentially.  If the
>>> publishers cannot or will not provide an accessible version of the
>>> text to the local DSO, the book should not be used.
>>>
>>> Providing the electronic book should be a prerequisite to ordering,
>>> not thing they can be asked for just prior to (or just after) the
>>> beginning of the term for a student who needs it.
>>>
>>> The publishers may not be able to meet that request with every book
>>> they circulate today--but they could sure enough do it for all future
>>> books if a few states start adopting such laws if they want to sell
>>> their textbooks to universities!
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:39:27PM -0800, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>>>> Excuse my language, but that is ridiculous. In my opinion, 
>>>> publishers of
>>>> textbooks should be required to provide colleges with an electronic 
>>>> copy of
>>>>
>>>> the book that can be embossed or easily converted into either text 
>>>> or word
>>>> for those of us who read our books on our notetakers. At Stanford, I 
>>>> still
>>>> have to purchase my books, but the OAE usually either has their own to
>>>> destroy or has a file from the publisher. In one case, when the OAE 
>>>> could
>>>> not get the book in time, and I had mine before they did, I let them 
>>>> have
>>>> my
>>>> book. However, I have never heard of this .mp3 process.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:26 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We're getting ready for our state legislative seminar here in Oregon
>>>> and I suggested to my state president that the problem of accessible
>>>> textbooks here in Oregon is abysmal at best.  He thinks he knows who
>>>> I should talk to here in Oregon about that, if I can get a good
>>>> example of textbook legislation to work from.  This is, I realize, a
>>>> national problem.  Some universities solve it well enough, but the
>>>> closest to that at an Oregon university is the direct result of my
>>>> intervention.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to push my state to adopt accessible textbook standards.  Is
>>>> there a good template out there from which I can work?  I am told
>>>> California does not allow its universities to use textbooks that
>>>> cannot be obtained in an accessible electronic format.  That might be
>>>> a good starting place.  *grin*
>>>>
>>>> While I am sure readers on this list and over on nabs-l (Cc'd) are
>>>> aware of what I mean by abysmal, I'll describe the standard process
>>>> used here in Oregon anyway:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Students buy the books at retail price (hundreds of dollars).
>>>> Books cannot be purchased early, and must be carried several blocks
>>>> to the DSO.
>>>> 2. Students deliver their books to their university's DSO.
>>>> 3. The DSO sends the book to the university print shop to cut up the
>>>> book.
>>>> 4. The cut book is returned to the DSO.
>>>> 5. The DSO scans the book using a B&W xerox machine at about 150 dpi.
>>>> 6. These scans are fed into an antiquated version of OCR software
>>>> such as ABBYY FineReader.
>>>> 7. ODS sends the book out to be "rebound" with a plastic comb.
>>>> 8. The poorly OCR'd text is edited by hand at least a little bit, in
>>>> theory.
>>>> 9. These lightly edited poor OCRs of textbooks are read using a
>>>> "natural" voice into mp3 files.
>>>> 10. The student must come to the DSO to collect their mangled
>>>> textbooks and mp3 CDs, usually about the third week of an 11 week
>>>> quarter.
>>>>
>>>> The process often _begins_ the first day of the term, because books
>>>> are not available any sooner than that.
>>>>
>>>> The mp3 CDs are next to useless since they are computer-read versions
>>>> of badly scanned text, full of errors and lacking anything resembling
>>>> interpretations of diagrams.  The printed books come back with pages
>>>> missing, out of order, torn, and otherwise destroyed.  I am told that
>>>> my DSO spends an average of four hours editing a moderately sized
>>>> textbook once scanned, and the new person who spends the four hours
>>>> produces significantly better output in that time frame than her
>>>> predecessor, but it's still pretty bad no matter how you look at it.
>>>>
>>>> The cost to the university is more than a day's pay for someone per
>>>> book.  The student's cost is several hundred dollars in destroyed
>>>> books, and this is standard policy at five higher educational
>>>> institutions I am aware of in my state.
>>>>
>>>> One of these is developing better policies based on my efforts, but
>>>> the better policies are meeting with lukewarm reactions by students
>>>> because as bad as the current system is, it doesn't involve waiting a
>>>> month for the publishers to finally respond that they don't have or
>>>> won't provide the textbook in question.
>>>>
>>>> And while some might argue that a blind student should be responsible
>>>> for scanning their own books, a more-than-full-time student does not
>>>> often have that luxury.  When you consider the reading volume
>>>> required for graduate studies, that's just not feasible.  Publishers
>>>> will not provide electronic copies to students, only to DSOs, only
>>>> when a student who needs it has registered for the class and
>>>> purchased a book and not always even then.
>>>>
>>>> This must stop.  The publishers should be routinely providing
>>>> electronic copies to DSOs as soon as they receive book orders so that
>>>> the electronic books are available to the DSO immediately to begin
>>>> doing whatever they need to in order to adapt the book from a clean,
>>>> correct, digital source.
>>>>
>>>> With the right pointers, I intend to do all that I can to make sure
>>>> it stops here in Oregon.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com 
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com 
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> 
> 


From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 21:12:05 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:12:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>	<498876EE.6010002@gmail.com>	<015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>
	<20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <498A04A5.4090709@gmail.com>

the only reason that I would agree with you on this is because we get 
our books in electronic format.  Usually, if you get an EText of a book 
online, it is cheaper than if you were to go get it physically from the 
bookstore.  So, in that case, it is unreasonable that we should pay the 
same price that everyone else does.


T. Joseph Carter wrote:
> I think it is unreasonable for blind students to be expected to pay 
> $6-800 for books every term.  That's what you advocate, and frankly 
> financial aid doesn't pay for everything as it is.
> 
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 06:04:48PM -0500, Serena wrote:
>> One thing: it's a good rule of thumb to buy 2 copies of all your books 
>> you know aren't available from RFB and D or Bookshare, so you can scan 
>> one and use one with your readers.  I always bought mine at the same 
>> price as other students from the college bookstore, although I bought 
>> them used, as long as there wasn't any handwriting, I. E. former 
>> students' notes, in them.
>>
>> Serena
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com 
> 
> 


From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com  Wed Feb  4 21:58:46 2009
From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:58:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OT Job Seekers
Message-ID: <016601c98713$c1393510$e74da962@Jessica>

From: chapter-presidents-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:chapter-presidents-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of C. Smyth
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:01 PM
To: NFB Chapter Presidents discussion list
Subject: [Chapter-presidents] Vocational Rehabilitation Counselor Position 

Greetings,
I work in the Clarksburg District Office of the West Virginia Division of Rehabilitation
Services which is looking to hire a vocational rehabilitation counselor for the blind
and visually impaired for our district.  This position has been posted on our state's
division of personnel website and to my knowledge, interviewing has not taken place
yet.  If anyone is interested, please go to
www.state.wv.us/admin/personnel
If you want to know more about the office in which I work and the geographic area
such as transportation, housing, stores, etc., please E-mail me at
cs.nfbwv at verizon.net
or call me at 304-622-0626 or 304-672-3445.
It would be great and really help with the changes the NFBWV is trying to make in
West Virginia if we can get a federationist to fill this position.
I am not in any way part of the hiring process, but will do whatever I can to assist
anyone and put in a good word for them with my district manager.
Charlene Smyth
NFBWV President

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Thu Feb  5 02:28:16 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 18:28:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <498A04A5.4090709@gmail.com>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<498876EE.6010002@gmail.com>
	<015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>
	<20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<498A04A5.4090709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090205022816.GE40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I find it rare that ebooks purchased online can be used as long as 
you want.  Most are time-limited purchases designed for students who 
are taking a class and only need the book for six months.

That's totally inappropriate for a book you will reference throughout 
your career.

Joseph

On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 04:12:05PM -0500, Robert Spangler wrote:
> the only reason that I would agree with you on this is because we get  
> our books in electronic format.  Usually, if you get an EText of a book  
> online, it is cheaper than if you were to go get it physically from the  
> bookstore.  So, in that case, it is unreasonable that we should pay the  
> same price that everyone else does.


From corbbo at gmail.com  Thu Feb  5 03:33:04 2009
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:33:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NLS qualifications
In-Reply-To: <729974.91252.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <729974.91252.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8C7BAE81-59DA-4E8D-99DA-3EA20286F020@gmail.com>

I'm no expert on NLS guidelines or the law -- but I do know that field  
restrictions play a role in legal blindness as well. I'm not sure if  
this applies to you or not, but that's something to consider. As for  
their rationale: I have no idea...have you tried contacting the NLS?

Corbb

-----
Corbb O'Connor
The George Washington University '10
B.A. Political Communication & Economics

On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Rob Lambert wrote:

I'm curious. If someone has 20/70 and are considered low vision  
(definitely visually impaired since they can only see out of one eye),  
and have a difficult time with small print even though their acuity is  
very good (eye strain can come a lot easier since you only have one  
eye working), it's still out of their qualification guidelines and I'm  
wondering why. You have to be legally blind to be on their service,  
essentially, low vision doesn't count. Any ideas on that one? I'm  
curious.




_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
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From iamantonio at cox.net  Thu Feb  5 03:36:46 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:36:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
References: <5A8A3C9BC02543028B1CF002926AC852@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <002a01c98742$f88aff60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hi,

I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people appretiate 
entertainment as much as the next guy, and video description greatly 
enhances the viewing experience.

The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to ensure that 
every picture in every theater is audio described. I think that is a 
wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being made on this direction.

Short and sweet for once.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 12:12 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description


> What do people think of the issue of video description?
>
> Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
> 



From iamantonio at cox.net  Thu Feb  5 03:41:01 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:41:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone else see the press release for KeySoft 8?
References: <131639.5169.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003001c98743$9071de70$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Robert,

You were waiting on the purchase of a braille note-taker because of its chat 
capabilities?

I think of some things as PC/Mac apps only, and chatting is one of them.

Chatting on a note-taker is pretty low on my priority list. I did enjoy 
hooking up braille lites, and chatting durring goalball tournament games. 
One deaf-blind schoolmate was able to join in the action back then.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob Lambert" <rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com>
To: "NFB Student List" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:17 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone else see the press release for KeySoft 8?


> I'm waiting for an MP3 file to see it in action, too. However I can say 
> this: KeySoft having the ability to handle NIMAS books for instructional 
> needs, as well as that new KeyChat feature, makes me seriously consider 
> the possibility of a VoiceNote in the future. This type of thing is 
> exactly what I wanted to have in the BrailleNote that was putting me off 
> from buying it - particularly the lack of KeyChat.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Thu Feb  5 04:15:59 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 23:15:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <20090205022816.GE40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>	<498876EE.6010002@gmail.com>	<015e01c98653$d0a76a50$0501a8c0@Serene>	<20090204111520.GD27734@yumi.bluecherry.net>	<498A04A5.4090709@gmail.com>
	<20090205022816.GE40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <498A67FF.3030101@gmail.com>

No, what I meant is that, as of now, I purchase my books at the 
bookstore and receive electronic versions on CD, in word format, from 
the office of accessibility.  If I could just pay the publishers 
directly for them to send me the Word files, should it not be cheaper?


T. Joseph Carter wrote:
> I find it rare that ebooks purchased online can be used as long as you 
> want.  Most are time-limited purchases designed for students who are 
> taking a class and only need the book for six months.
> 
> That's totally inappropriate for a book you will reference throughout 
> your career.
> 
> Joseph
> 
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 04:12:05PM -0500, Robert Spangler wrote:
>> the only reason that I would agree with you on this is because we get  
>> our books in electronic format.  Usually, if you get an EText of a 
>> book  online, it is cheaper than if you were to go get it physically 
>> from the  bookstore.  So, in that case, it is unreasonable that we 
>> should pay the  same price that everyone else does.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com 
> 
> 

-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - Recording Secretary


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Feb  5 05:41:16 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 23:41:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NLS qualifications
In-Reply-To: <8C7BAE81-59DA-4E8D-99DA-3EA20286F020@gmail.com>
References: <729974.91252.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<8C7BAE81-59DA-4E8D-99DA-3EA20286F020@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000084571878@mailfront1.g2host.com>

NLS guidelines are 20/200 or a field of less than 20 degrees.

Dave

At 09:33 PM 2/4/2009, you wrote:
>I'm no expert on NLS guidelines or the law -- but I do know that field
>restrictions play a role in legal blindness as well. I'm not sure if
>this applies to you or not, but that's something to consider. As for
>their rationale: I have no idea...have you tried contacting the NLS?
>
>Corbb
>
>-----
>Corbb O'Connor
>The George Washington University '10
>B.A. Political Communication & Economics
>
>On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Rob Lambert wrote:
>
>I'm curious. If someone has 20/70 and are considered low vision
>(definitely visually impaired since they can only see out of one eye),
>and have a difficult time with small print even though their acuity is
>very good (eye strain can come a lot easier since you only have one
>eye working), it's still out of their qualification guidelines and I'm
>wondering why. You have to be legally blind to be on their service,
>essentially, low vision doesn't count. Any ideas on that one? I'm
>curious.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1931 - Release Date: 
>2/2/2009 7:21 PM



From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  5 07:19:11 2009
From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 23:19:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] NLS qualifications
Message-ID: <807580.37300.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Thanks for your help, everyone.

On Feb 4, 2009, at 9:41 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

NLS guidelines are 20/200 or a field of less than 20 degrees.

Dave

At 09:33 PM 2/4/2009, you wrote:
I'm no expert on NLS guidelines or the law -- but I do know that field
restrictions play a role in legal blindness as well. I'm not sure if
this applies to you or not, but that's something to consider. As for
their rationale: I have no idea...have you tried contacting the NLS?

Corbb

-----
Corbb O'Connor
The George Washington University '10
B.A. Political Communication & Economics

On Feb 4, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Rob Lambert wrote:

I'm curious. If someone has 20/70 and are considered low vision
(definitely visually impaired since they can only see out of one eye),
and have a difficult time with small print even though their acuity is
very good (eye strain can come a lot easier since you only have one
eye working), it's still out of their qualification guidelines and I'm
wondering why. You have to be legally blind to be on their service,
essentially, low vision doesn't count. Any ideas on that one? I'm
curious.




_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1931 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 7:21 PM


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From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Thu Feb  5 09:07:43 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:07:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
In-Reply-To: <002a01c98742$f88aff60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <5A8A3C9BC02543028B1CF002926AC852@D3ZCJ891>
	<002a01c98742$f88aff60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <20090205090743.GG40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Antonio,

I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?  
Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the 
need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video 
description mandatory.

At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It 
seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we 
don't need.

Have I missed something?

Joseph

On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people appretiate  
> entertainment as much as the next guy, and video description greatly  
> enhances the viewing experience.
>
> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to ensure 
> that every picture in every theater is audio described. I think that is a 
> wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being made on this 
> direction.
>
> Short and sweet for once.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Thu Feb  5 09:11:17 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 01:11:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible textbook legislation
In-Reply-To: <498A0393.70101@gmail.com>
References: <20090203042654.GA23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<04F4D6E39CD54175B4D4C31B541F4D44@D3ZCJ891>
	<20090203070942.GD23050@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<da706cb30902030353q3d8c9340k3eeb0be01e120f1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090203215042.GA26800@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<498A0393.70101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090205091117.GH40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Oregon.

Recently a link to state legislation including California was posted.  
I'd start there.

Joseph

On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 04:07:31PM -0500, Robert Spangler wrote:
> what state are you trying to change?  I would like to work on changing  
> Ohio so if you would have any advice please share.


From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Thu Feb  5 09:51:37 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:51:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
In-Reply-To: <20090205090743.GG40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <5A8A3C9BC02543028B1CF002926AC852@D3ZCJ891>
	<002a01c98742$f88aff60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090205090743.GG40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <20090205045137.3qdwkmedcw04w0ck@webmail.utoronto.ca>

Why would they be hostile? Isn't any accommodation a good one?

Quoting "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>:

> Antonio,
>
> I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?
> Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the
> need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video
> description mandatory.
>
> At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It
> seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we
> don't need.
>
> Have I missed something?
>
> Joseph
>
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people   
>> appretiate entertainment as much as the next guy, and video   
>> description greatly  enhances the viewing experience.
>>
>> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to   
>> ensure that every picture in every theater is audio described. I   
>> think that is a wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being   
>> made on this direction.
>>
>> Short and sweet for once.
>>
>> Antonio Guimaraes
>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca





From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  5 18:20:46 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:20:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experience
Message-ID: <ECDF52B0ED694667B15578896D27D397@Ashley>

Hi all,

To acquire experience for employment and network purposes volunteering is great.  I am looking for positions where I can volunteer in an office such as Red cross.  Obviously I'll supply jaws and bring my electronic notetaker for notes.  Employers have to provide reasonable accomodations, but if volunteering you provide them.

What volunteer jobs have you done?  What were your duties and what accomodations did you have?

Thanks.
Ashley

From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Feb  5 21:27:19 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:27:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
Message-ID: <20090205212719.876.19134@biff.serotek.com>

Hi.

The NFB isn't opposed to, nor is it hostle to, video description. If 
someone wants to provide video description, then fantastic. we'll 
support them. The NFB's position is that it shouldn't be mandatory 
except for emergency broadcast systems or possibly the news. I was 
there when that resolution was passed.


Original message:
> Antonio,

> I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?
> Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the
> need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video
> description mandatory.

> At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It
> seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we
> don't need.

> Have I missed something?

> Joseph

> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>> Hi,

>> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people appretiate
>> entertainment as much as the next guy, and video description greatly
>> enhances the viewing experience.

>> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to ensure
>> that every picture in every theater is audio described. I think that is a
>> wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being made on this
>> direction.

>> Short and sweet for once.

>> Antonio Guimaraes
>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169

> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Thu Feb  5 19:36:26 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:36:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
In-Reply-To: <20090205045137.3qdwkmedcw04w0ck@webmail.utoronto.ca>
References: <5A8A3C9BC02543028B1CF002926AC852@D3ZCJ891>
	<002a01c98742$f88aff60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090205090743.GG40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<20090205045137.3qdwkmedcw04w0ck@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20090205193626.GK40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>

No, actually.  Consider the chirping lights.  The old models are 
actually dangerous to blind people.  Through the NFB's opposition to 
the things, new ones that get installed are much safer.

Many in the NFB still argue the things are basically never necessary.  
Having them fosters a false sense of security in undertrained blind 
pedestrians.  Without training, they may believe they can cross such 
a street safely, and realize their fatal mistake only when they hear 
the screech of brakes and tires.

On the other side of the coin, the NFB argues that putting the things 
everywhere may cause sighted people to THINK we need them to cross 
streets.  We want the blind to think about the things we can do, not 
the things they falsely believe that we cannot.

Neither are good, so the NFB is opposed to the old ones, and 
indifferent to the new ones at best.  Generally, if they're 
installing the new types that are not as loud or have to be actually 
activated, and if they're installing them while they service an 
intersection (which dramatically reduces costs to "just" several
thousand per intersection), we don't object too much.

Our opponents like to simplify that position to, "The NFB refuses to 
allow blind people to have these things that would make us safer!"  I 
suppose it is easier to attack an opponent than their argument, 
though.  This is why I hate politics--but that's a whole 'nother 
email, and I won't write it here.  *grin*

Joseph

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 04:51:37AM -0500, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca wrote:
> Why would they be hostile? Isn't any accommodation a good one?
>
> Quoting "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>:
>
>> Antonio,
>>
>> I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?
>> Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the
>> need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video
>> description mandatory.
>>
>> At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It
>> seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we
>> don't need.
>>
>> Have I missed something?
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people   
>>> appretiate entertainment as much as the next guy, and video   
>>> description greatly  enhances the viewing experience.
>>>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to   
>>> ensure that every picture in every theater is audio described. I   
>>> think that is a wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being   
>>> made on this direction.
>>>
>>> Short and sweet for once.
>>>
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From aspooner at blindinc.org  Thu Feb  5 12:42:44 2009
From: aspooner at blindinc.org (Al Spooner)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 06:42:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Summer Employment Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <auto-000086744099@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000086744099@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <000501c9878f$3f3857e0$0200a8c0@rocky>

Summer Employment Opportunity!

If you like working with blind youth, and are looking for a summer job,
please read on.
BLIND Incorporated is now accepting applications for additional staff for
our summer programs.

Two Opportunities:
1.	Buddy Program, children ages 9 - 13 
Dates of employment: Sunday, July 12 through Saturday, August 15 (5 weeks)
2.	Life 101 Program, teenagers ages 14 - 17 
Dates of employment: Sunday, June 7 through Saturday, August 15 (10 weeks)
(This one includes a free trip to our National Convention!)

For more information, please contact al Spooner off-line at
aspooner at blindinc.org or see me at our Washington Seminar.

Thanks!

Al Spooner
Assistant Director
Outreach and Marketing
BLIND, Incorporated
100 East 22nd Street
Minneapolis, MN 55404
Office: 612-872-0100
Toll Free: 800-597-9558
Fax: 612-872-9358 
Web Site: www.blindinc.org
E-mail: aspooner at blindinc.org
 


From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  6 02:50:48 2009
From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:50:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] watch how is your news Sunday night at 10:30FW: MTV
 Launches Disability News Show
In-Reply-To: <1102445445940.1101795480929.1584.3.54170501@scheduler>
References: <1102445445940.1101795480929.1584.3.54170501@scheduler>
Message-ID: <COL115-W6525D5EE562C4F428F12868BC10@phx.gbl>




Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:10:05 -0500From: jfa at aapd.comTo: albertyoo1 at hotmail.comSubject: MTV Launches Disability News Show




















MTV Launches News Comedy with Disabled Cast 

JFA is a free service of the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD)











In This Issue 

TUNE IN: New Comedy with Disabled Cast

Action Alert: Sign Call to Reform Long Term Care

Check it Out: First Ever "Official" DOL Disability Unemployment Stats Available

Action Alert: SAVE Independent Living Funding

New to the Blog: Medication Leads to Cardiac Deaths and Disability in Foreign Policy



TUNE IN: New Comedy with Disabled Cast


"How's Your News?" lets reporters with Down syndrome, Williams syndrome and other mental and physical challenges josh around with Hollywood stars. (Mtv)
>From the Washington Post (Feb. 5, 2009): Disabled Get Last Laugh on MTV's 'News'By Tom ShalesGroups once stigmatized can try to shed the stigma by morphing into a subculture or a "community," or, if politically oriented, a movement.It's happening or has happened with old people, fat people, transsexuals and countless others. In that spirit, MTV's new "How's Your News?" show can be seen not as exploitation of people who have mental disabilities but rather as the expression of a subculture that has much to contribute to the mainstream but never had much of an opportunity. "Can be" is the operative phrase, because some people might still see the half-hour program -- premiering Sunday night -- as some sort of condescending abuse, especially because the executive producers are Matt Stone and Trey Parker, the smart-alecky pair who turned children into foulmouthed cynics with their callous "South Park" cartoon. But "How's Your News?" is clearly not in the "South Park" vein; it's upbeat and moving and the disabled or disadvantaged people who star in the program appear to exert enough control over the content to dispel charges that they're being used...How's Your News? (30 minutes) debuts Sunday night at 10:30 on MTV. 
 >>> For More
Comment on the JFActivist Blog: Eager? Anxious? Indignant? Cautious? Hopeful? Proud? How do this story and the prospect of this new show make you feel?  Do you think it will be successful? How does it help or hurt our community? Will you be tuning in?



Action Alert: Sign Call to Reform Long Term Care

 
*** Join the Virtual Rally ***WHAT: A Call for Medicaid Transformation in the Long Term Care System: End the Institutional Bias NOWWHEN: Tuesday, February 3-Sunday, February 15WHERE: http://www.centerforself-determination.com/signon.html
 Sign the petition for a fundamental restructuring of the long-term care system in the United States. Current federal/state Medicaid financed long-term care is institutionally biased, excessively complex, outdated, overly expensive, provider-driven, and unfair. AAPD and its partners are calling for a shift from the present medically-oriented, institutional first funding to community first, whole health funding by Medicaid.
>>> To sign the Call
>>> For an Executive Summary of the Letter>>> For the Full Text of the Call>>> For the Long Version of the Plan: The Perfect Storm



Check it Out: First Ever "Official" DOL Disability Unemployment Stats Available



Check it out: The first ever "official" DOL unemployment rate for people with disabilities will be released on Friday, February 6, 2009 at 8:30. This data is the result of the US Census' monthly Current Population Survey (CPS) which collected the labor force data for people with a disability on behalf of the US Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) and the Office of Disability Employment Policy (ODEP).  Look for the data at http://www.bls.gov/cps/home.htm#notices on Friday morning, Feb. 6, 2009.
 






MODERATOR, Sarah Peterson, JUSTICE FOR ALL -- A Service of the American Association of People with Disabilities (AAPD). 
To respond to a JFA email, submit an article, or contact the moderator, email her at jfa at aapd.com. 

ACCESSIBILITY: To request to receive a text-only version of this and every JFA newsletter rather than the html version, please contact the moderator at jfa at aapd.com. 
 

DISCLAIMER: The JFA listserv is designed to share information of interest to people with disabilities and promote dialogue in the disability community. Information circulated does not necessarily express the views of AAPD. The JFA listserv is non-partisan. 
 
JFA ARCHIVES: All JFA postings from 1995 through October 2007 are available on the AAPD website. Archives of news and other articles featured on JFA since October 2007 are available by category and date on the JFActivist blog.








 



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Action Alert: SAVE Independent Living Funding

>>> For the Full Action Alert


Update: There is a group of Senators that are seriously talking about cutting the VR appropriation in the Stimulus Bill which INCLUDES the IL funding. The Senate is busy cutting programs from the bill today and should vote on the bill today or tomorrow! Democratic leaders still want the measure ready for President Obama's signature before February 16. Congress Needs to Hear from You Right Now: Persuade your Senator to keep IL funding in the stimulus bill. Tell them your Center will use the funds to hire critically needed employees to help people with disabilities gain employment opportunities.The Senators we need to target IMMEDIATELY to change their minds. Nelson, Nebraska Bayh, Indiana Bennet, Colorado Begich, Alaska Conrad, North DakotaLandreiu, LouisianaLincoln, Arkansas Lieberman, ConnecticutShaheen, New Hampshire Tester, Montana Udall, ColoradoUdall, New Mexico Warner, VirginiaWebb, VirginiaCarper, Delaware Klobuchar, Minnesota McCaskill, MissouriSelect the name to send an email.



Also New to the JFActivist Blog: 


Medication Linked to Cardiac Deaths: A press release from the Department of Health and Human services reports use of atypical antipsychotic drugs increases risk of sudden cardiac death in adults.
>>> For More

Clinton Speaks on the Role Disability Rights will have in Foreign Policy: In a town hall meeting with State Department personnel this Wednesday (Feb. 4, 2009), Secretary of State Hillary Clinton answered questions about the roll that disability rights should play in foreign policy.
>>> For the Transcript 







Forward email



 
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From srp at internode.on.net  Fri Feb  6 03:19:14 2009
From: srp at internode.on.net (Steve Pattison)
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:19:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe Audition 3 Script for Window-Eyes
Message-ID: <auto-000084724744@mailfront1.g2host.com>


Greetings,

I've just posted the first version of a script for Adobe Audition 3.0.
After talking with the Audition developers, and with the addition of
scripting to Window-Eyes, we've been able to make Audition much more
accessible than before (seeing as how it wasn't really accessible at all
before). Now you can hear detailed information as you navigate the
Audition window. For example, when you press Alt-Page Up and Alt-Page
Down to traverse through the various panes, you'll hear the pane name.
Then you can tab through the various controls in that pane and have both
the control's name and value read to you.

If you have a copy of Adobe Audition 3.0, give this script a try, and
let me know how you do.

http://www.gwmicro.com/scripts/adobe_audition_3

Aaron
-- 
To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
Micro Technical Support Team.

Aaron Smith
GW Micro
Phone: 260/489-3671
Fax: 260/489-2608
WWW: http://www.gwmicro.com
FTP: ftp://ftp.gwmicro.com
Technical Support & Web Development



From jj at bestmidi.com  Fri Feb  6 04:32:45 2009
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:32:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Keep Warm in DC
Message-ID: <DE0ABE035E5D40CF8D657D1E617781F4@jsquared>

Hello.

Worried about the cold weather in DC? The Michigan Association of Blind Students will be selling stylish black beanie caps at Washington Seminar to keep you warm. The hats feature a light gray Whozit emblem with the letters NFB.
We'll be selling them for only $10. Supplies are limited, so find any MABS representative during Washington Seminar to get yours while they last.

Hope to see everyone in DC,

J.J. Meddaugh
Michigan Association of Blind Students

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Fri Feb  6 05:24:51 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:24:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
In-Reply-To: <20090205212719.876.19134@biff.serotek.com>
References: <20090205212719.876.19134@biff.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <20090206052450.GL40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Jedi,

The news doesn't need video description, it's the television shows 
that would often benefit.  News programs feature reporters discussing 
the news and providing the video description for you.

Emergency Alert System I totally agree with.  I would like to see 
incentives for broadcasters to audio describe their programming--at 
this time none exist.  But I don't see the NFB at all in support of 
descried programming, and Dr. Maurer's comments have been critical of 
the idea as an unwanted and unnecessary accommodation we didn't even 
ask for.  I think his personal viewpoint is a bit myopic (no pun 
intended), but the conclusion that the NFB not intervene is 
reasonable enough to me.

Joseph

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 04:27:19PM -0500, Jedi wrote:
> Hi.
>
> The NFB isn't opposed to, nor is it hostle to, video description. If  
> someone wants to provide video description, then fantastic. we'll  
> support them. The NFB's position is that it shouldn't be mandatory  
> except for emergency broadcast systems or possibly the news. I was there 
> when that resolution was passed.
>
>
> Original message:
>> Antonio,
>
>> I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?
>> Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the
>> need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video
>> description mandatory.
>
>> At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It
>> seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we
>> don't need.
>
>> Have I missed something?
>
>> Joseph
>
>> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>> Hi,
>
>>> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people appretiate
>>> entertainment as much as the next guy, and video description greatly
>>> enhances the viewing experience.
>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to ensure
>>> that every picture in every theater is audio described. I think that is a
>>> wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being made on this
>>> direction.
>
>>> Short and sweet for once.
>
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>
> -- 
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit  
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  6 06:50:39 2009
From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:50:39 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
In-Reply-To: <20090205193626.GK40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <5A8A3C9BC02543028B1CF002926AC852@D3ZCJ891><002a01c98742$f88aff60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb><20090205090743.GG40987@yumi.bluecherry.net><20090205045137.3qdwkmedcw04w0ck@webmail.utoronto.ca>
	<20090205193626.GK40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV21A6CB610C13E910D5EF34B5C10@phx.gbl>

The new audible singles are not safe because they will go off when it is not
your turn when cars are turning.  The new ones are very loud and it makes it
hard to tell which stop light the sounds are coming from and also the sound
bounces from the tall buildings  With short blocks it is very hard to tell
which intersection the sound is coming from..  It makes it hard to hear what
the cars are doing.  I want to see the sidewalk fixed or improved before any
audible singles are put in.  
From
Jacob Struiksma


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:36 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Video Description

No, actually.  Consider the chirping lights.  The old models are actually
dangerous to blind people.  Through the NFB's opposition to the things, new
ones that get installed are much safer.

Many in the NFB still argue the things are basically never necessary.  
Having them fosters a false sense of security in undertrained blind
pedestrians.  Without training, they may believe they can cross such a
street safely, and realize their fatal mistake only when they hear the
screech of brakes and tires.

On the other side of the coin, the NFB argues that putting the things
everywhere may cause sighted people to THINK we need them to cross streets.
We want the blind to think about the things we can do, not the things they
falsely believe that we cannot.

Neither are good, so the NFB is opposed to the old ones, and indifferent to
the new ones at best.  Generally, if they're installing the new types that
are not as loud or have to be actually activated, and if they're installing
them while they service an intersection (which dramatically reduces costs to
"just" several thousand per intersection), we don't object too much.

Our opponents like to simplify that position to, "The NFB refuses to allow
blind people to have these things that would make us safer!"  I suppose it
is easier to attack an opponent than their argument, though.  This is why I
hate politics--but that's a whole 'nother email, and I won't write it here.
*grin*

Joseph

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 04:51:37AM -0500, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca wrote:
> Why would they be hostile? Isn't any accommodation a good one?
>
> Quoting "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>:
>
>> Antonio,
>>
>> I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?
>> Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the 
>> need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video 
>> description mandatory.
>>
>> At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It 
>> seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we 
>> don't need.
>>
>> Have I missed something?
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people   
>>> appretiate entertainment as much as the next guy, and video   
>>> description greatly  enhances the viewing experience.
>>>
>>> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to   
>>> ensure that every picture in every theater is audio described. I   
>>> think that is a wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being   
>>> made on this direction.
>>>
>>> Short and sweet for once.
>>>
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnika
>> r%40utoronto.ca
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph
> %40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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l.com



From davidb521 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  6 12:18:59 2009
From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 06:18:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe Audition 3 Script for Window-Eyes
References: <auto-000084724744@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <005201c98855$1769d7e0$0801a8c0@DavidBouchard>

Incidentally,  are there Jaws scripts for the program?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Pattison (by way of David Andrews<dandrews at visi.com>)" 
<srp at internode.on.net>
To: <david.andrews at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:19 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Adobe Audition 3 Script for Window-Eyes


>
> Greetings,
>
> I've just posted the first version of a script for Adobe Audition 3.0.
> After talking with the Audition developers, and with the addition of
> scripting to Window-Eyes, we've been able to make Audition much more
> accessible than before (seeing as how it wasn't really accessible at all
> before). Now you can hear detailed information as you navigate the
> Audition window. For example, when you press Alt-Page Up and Alt-Page
> Down to traverse through the various panes, you'll hear the pane name.
> Then you can tab through the various controls in that pane and have both
> the control's name and value read to you.
>
> If you have a copy of Adobe Audition 3.0, give this script a try, and
> let me know how you do.
>
> http://www.gwmicro.com/scripts/adobe_audition_3
>
> Aaron
> -- 
> To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
> correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
> pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
> Micro Technical Support Team.
>
> Aaron Smith
> GW Micro
> Phone: 260/489-3671
> Fax: 260/489-2608
> WWW: http://www.gwmicro.com
> FTP: ftp://ftp.gwmicro.com
> Technical Support & Web Development
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.com 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Feb  6 17:23:14 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:23:14 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: National Federation of the Blind Rejects
	Nelson-Collins Amendment
Message-ID: <EA1E394B7BC64DAF8374F7CDEB87F874@labarre>


Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Freeh, Jessica 
To: Alpidio Rolon ; Amy Buresh ; Anil Lewis ; Art Schreiber ; Beth Rival ; Bob Kresmer ; Carl Jacobsen ; Cathy Jackson ; Charlene Smyth ; Christine G. Hall ; Daniel Burke ; David Ticchi ; Don Galloway ; Donna Wood ; Elsie Lamp ; Franklin Shiner ; Fred Schroeder ; Fred Wurtzel ; Gary Ray ; Gary Wunder ; J.W. Smith ; James Antonacci ; Jennelle Bichler ; Jennifer Dunnam ; Jerree Harris ; Joe Ruffalo ; John Batron ; John Fritz ; Joyce Scanlan ; Kathy Davis ; Ken Rollman ; Kevan Worley ; Marie Johnson ; Mary Willows ; Melissa Riccobono ; Michael Barber ; Michael Freeman ; Michael Seay ; Minnie Walker ; Minnie Walker ; Nani Fife ; Pam Allen ; Parnell Diggs ; Patti Chang ; Richard Bennett ; Richard Gaffney ; Ron Brown ; Ron Gardner ; Sam Gleese ; Scott LaBarre ; Selena Sundling-Crawford ; Steven Priddle ; Terri Rupp ; Tommy Craig 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Rejects Nelson-Collins Amendment


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
cdanielsen at nfb.org

National Federation of the Blind Rejects Nelson-Collins Amendment

Urges Senate to Retain Rehabilitation Funding

Baltimore, Maryland (February 6, 2009): Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, the oldest and largest organization of blind people in the United States, said: "The purpose of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 currently being debated in the United States Senate is to reduce unemployment and to restore economic security for all Americans.  In order to accomplish this goal for Americans who are blind or have other disabilities, state vocational rehabilitation programs must be adequately funded. The National Federation of the Blind urges all members of the United States Senate to reject the Nelson-Collins Amendment and retain the $500 million currently allocated for vocational rehabilitation.  By doing so, the Senate will ensure that all Americans have the training needed to work and contribute to this nation's economic prosperity."

# # #


About the National Federation of the Blind

With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.




From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Feb  6 17:24:16 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 10:24:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: URGENT REQUEST!!!
Message-ID: <193BA71D49C242C3AF848584BF3CCD43@labarre>

Call your senators!  The money targeted for VR is exactly the kind of thing that supports securing employment.  
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kevan Worley 
To: 'Nancy Smith' ; 'Ken Schmidt' ; 'Jody Fitzsimmons' ; 'Joel Pavelis' ; 'Tim Poole' ; dan.whalen at state.co.us ; 'Scott Labarre' ; 'Vendor Talk Mailing List' ; al at a1foodservice.com ; crazyog at peoplepc.com ; DhrrJo at aol.com ; done.hudson at att.net ; hickey3131 at comcast.net ; hnlhoover at acsol.net ; jackriley07 at hotmail.com ; Jdmakers at aol.com ; jjfreivald at comast.net ; kevanworley at blindmerchants.org ; pdolphins at hotmail.com ; ppichardo at adelphia.net ; rick_penny59 at msn.com ; rotweilers2007 at comcast.net ; srightsell at juno.com ; stevedmasters at aol.com ; tattoad at msn.com ; vendcrew at msn.com ; wsclinton at peakpeak.com ; 'Al Falligan' ; 'Dave Merritt' ; Gene Fleeman ; HackneyCharles at aol.com ; Jeremiah Wells ; Jim Farley ; 'Joe Shaw' ; John Fritz (Wisconsin) ; Lorraine Magnessun ; 'Mary Hayes' ; Ray Marshall ; robinsond5 at michigan.gov ; Sharon Kingsbury ; suncat0 at gmail.com ; Art Stevenson ; 'Charles & Betty Allen' ; 'Debra Smith' ; Harold Wilson ; Jpj1955 at aol.com ; 'Kim Williams' ; 'Lynn Reynolds' ; 'Nick Gacos' ; Pamela Schnurr ; 'Sharon Paris' ; 'Sharon Paris' ; 'Virgil Stinnett' 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 9:25 AM
Subject: URGENT REQUEST!!!


Urgent request! Save VR dollars in stimulus package. Here is the latest alert. The Collins-Nelson amendment of late last night would strip the stimulus package of the $500 million which was to be included to support Voc Rehab programs. Please call your United States senators! Call their local office if you can't get through to the local office. The economic stimulus package should morally include the building of job opportunities and full inclusion of the blind and persons with disabilities. Please tell your senators to oppose the Collins-Nelson amendment. 

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Catriona Macdonald [mailto:cmacdonald at linchpinstrategies.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 7:44 AM
To: Catriona Macdonald
Subject: ALERT: SENATE AMENDMENT CUTS VR FUNDS

 

February 5, 2009 - PLEASE READ, CALL, AND FORWARD

 

Last night, moderate Senators (Democratic and Republican) negotiated an amendment to the economic recovery legislation that may be considered today.  The amendment eliminates the $500 million in funds for State Vocational Rehabilitation Grants.  

 

Anyone who cares about the availability of this funding to prevent use of Randolph-Sheppard set-aside funds to close budget gaps should call their Senators' offices TODAY.  

 

The Senate Operator's line has been very busy and difficult to get through.  If you want to try, the number is 202-224-3121. 

 

You can look up direct phone numbers for the Washington DC or local offices at the following website:
www.Senate.gov
You may have more luck getting through to the district office than to the DC office, though the staff who will advise Senators how to vote on the amendment are located in DC.  As a constituent, you can also send emails from the Senators' websites.



Please call both Senate offices TODAY.  If you have already called, call again.  Leave the following message with the receptionist who answer the phone:
- your name
- the town where you live
- "I am calling to urge my Senator to vote no on the Nelson-Collins amendment that eliminates the $500 million for vocational rehabilitation state grants."

 

 

 

Catriona Macdonald

President

Linchpin Strategies, LLC

 

700 12th St. NW, Suite 700

Washington, DC 20005

866-443-0998 MAIN

202-345-3334 MOBILE

202-478-2086 FAX

CMacdonald at LinchpinStrategies.com

 





 

From pyyhkala at gmail.com  Fri Feb  6 18:47:27 2009
From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (pyyhkala at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 13:47:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Massachusetts Member Looking For Washington Seminar
	Roommate Any Nights Fri to Wed
Message-ID: <695ace540902061047ne80be8eo4c7dbfbee92ee1d7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

If you will be or are thinking about attending the Washington Seminar,
and want to share a room and related expenses, one of our student
members from Massachusetts is looking for a roommate.

The persons name is
Ben Halsband
and he can be reached on his cell phone via voice or SMS at
978-460-0860

Ben will be at the Holiday Inn from
Friday Feb 6th
through
Wednesday Feb  11th
He is open to having a roommate either for the entire stay, or for
certain nights with in the stay.

Again if interested please call or SMS the above cell phone.  Feel
free to forward this to anyone who is going that you may think this
may be of interest too.

Thanks,
Mika

Follow live updates from the NFB of Massachusetts in Washington on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/nfbma

and/or follow my personal Twitter updates from Washington:
http://twitter.com/pyyhkala

and/or follow the official NFB Twitter account:
http://twitter.com/NFB_Voice


From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb  6 20:17:11 2009
From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:17:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] streetlights
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS50057093E7E8726087EBFBAC10@phx.gbl>

Hey,
speaking about putting audible stop signs, I used to intern with one of the senators from new jersey and during the staff meeting which included intern luncheons, I spoke directly to the senator and discussed the possibilities of putting streetlights that are easy to hear at each intersection so that both the blind and the sighted community including small children walking to school can benefit.
He said that the law cannot be addressed to congress at a national level but he offered to try to see if something can be done statewide.
I hope that he noted and considered that possibility when I discussed this because there are a lot of people who are on the same boat.

thank you very much

Priscilla

From JFreeh at nfb.org  Fri Feb  6 20:35:42 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:35:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Rejects Nelson-Collins
 Amendment
Message-ID: <auto-000087247185@mailfront2.g2host.com>

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org

National Federation of the Blind Rejects Nelson-Collins Amendment

Urges Senate to Retain Rehabilitation Funding

Baltimore, Maryland (February 6, 2009): Dr. Marc Maurer, President of 
the National Federation of the Blind, the oldest and largest 
organization of blind people in the United States, said: "The purpose 
of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 currently being 
debated in the United States Senate is to reduce unemployment and to 
restore economic security for all Americans.  In order to accomplish 
this goal for Americans who are blind or have other disabilities, 
state vocational rehabilitation programs must be adequately funded. 
The National Federation of the Blind urges all members of the United 
States Senate to reject the Nelson-Collins Amendment and retain the 
$500 million currently allocated for vocational rehabilitation.  By 
doing so, the Senate will ensure that all Americans have the training 
needed to work and contribute to this nation's economic prosperity."

# # #


About the National Federation of the Blind

With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives 
through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading 
force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
the United States for the blind led by the blind.




From hlsnider at verizon.net  Fri Feb  6 21:49:03 2009
From: hlsnider at verizon.net (HAROLD SNIDER)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:49:03 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: UPDATE: Invitation""Actuality of Braille in Different
 Socio-economic Settings" - February 10, 2009 World Bank HQ 9:30-12:00
Message-ID: <auto-000087261006@mailfront2.g2host.com>


----- Original Message ----- From: <kpeffley at worldbank.org>
To: "Global Partnership for Disability and Development" <GPDD at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:28 AM
Subject: UPDATE: Invitation""Actuality of Braille in Different 
Socio-economic Settings" - February 10, 2009 World Bank HQ 9:30-12:00


>Attached please find an updated agenda for the discussion "Actuality 
>of Braille
>in Different Socio-economic Settings"
>
>In-person participation is for registered guests.  To register, please send an
>email to Merced Blanquita Doroteo at  Mswan at worldbank.org by Sunday, 
>February 8.
>
>The event will be webcast at:
>
>      http://vcg01.worldbank.org/vc/
>       or
>      http://wbgvsivn.worldbank.org/starbak/default.jhtml
>
>
>Karen Peffley
>Disability & Development, HDNSP
>The World Bank
>
>(See attached file: Invite Feb. 10, 09.doc)
>
>
>
>
>
>             Maria Veronica
>             Reina
>             <mvreina at LAW.SYR.ED To
>             U>                          GPDD at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
>             Sent by: Global cc
>             Partnership for
>             Disability and Subject
>             Development                 [GPDD] FW: Invitation""Actuality of
>             <GPDD at LISTSERV.SYR.         Braille in Different Socio-economic
>             EDU>                        Settings" - February 10, 2009 World
>                                         Bank HQ 9:30-12:00
>
>             02/02/2009 11:14 AM
>
>
>              Please respond to
>             Global Partnership
>             for Disability and
>                 Development
>             <GPDD at LISTSERV.SYR.
>                    EDU>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>fyi
>
>From:] mnicoli at worldbank.org [mailto:mnicoli at worldbank.org]
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:10 AM
>Subject: Invitation""Actuality of Braille in Different 
>Socio-economic Settings"
>- February 10, 2009 World Bank HQ 9:30-12:00
>
>
>You are cordially invited to participate in a workshop on "Actuality 
>of Braille
>in Different Socio-Economic Settings" for the celebration of Louis Braille's
>bicentennial.
>The workshop is sponsored by: World Bank HDNSP & Education for All - 
>Fast Track
>Initiative, the Global Partnership For Disability & Development and 
>the National
>Federation of the Blinds.
>The event will be organized at the World Bank HQ in Washington D.C. with
>videoconference connections with Lagos, San Paulo, and webcast
>External participants should use the visitor entrance at 18th Street NW room
>(Room  MC 13-121)
>Please RSVP for logistics and special accommodations to Merced 
>Blanquita Doroteo
>at  Mswan at worldbank.org
>Best regards
>Marco
>
>
>
>
>Marco Nicoli
>Senior Knowledge Management Officer
>THE WORLD BANK
>HDNSP - Disability & Development Team
>1818 H Street, NW
>Washington D.C.  20433
>
>Contact Info:
>MNicoli at worldbank.org
>Phone 202-473-0304
>Fax      202-614-0471
>Skype  marco_nicoli_worldbank
>www.worldbank.org/disability[attachment "Invitation Workshop Braille.doc"
-------------- next part --------------
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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Feb  7 20:20:14 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 15:20:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Keep Warm in DC
In-Reply-To: <DE0ABE035E5D40CF8D657D1E617781F4@jsquared>
Message-ID: <D533056591F249A4917BC699840D47A9@MonkeyPaw>

Hello,

Another way to keep warm and help the economy is to visit one of the
District's many bars.  I've now given up alcohol altogether, but sometime
back my coworkers and I compiled what turned out to be quite the definitive
list of watering holes and their daily specials.  Anyway, never mind combing
the Internet.  I've uploaded the spreadsheet to the page below and trust
that while there may be some changes, you will at least learn of the
happening places that keep DC locals jolly year round.

You can find the Excel file at:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/277ulx

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of J.J. Meddaugh
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Keep Warm in DC

Hello.

Worried about the cold weather in DC? The Michigan Association of Blind
Students will be selling stylish black beanie caps at Washington Seminar to
keep you warm. The hats feature a light gray Whozit emblem with the letters
NFB.
We'll be selling them for only $10. Supplies are limited, so find any MABS
representative during Washington Seminar to get yours while they last.

Hope to see everyone in DC,

J.J. Meddaugh
Michigan Association of Blind Students
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com



From tmm326 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  7 22:10:50 2009
From: tmm326 at gmail.com (T. Medina)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:10:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Teachers Out There?
Message-ID: <4659BCA41F8E4345A96C4D4D7A6D92AD@DC4V3PD1>

Hi NABS,

I am a graduate student in Oregon who is teaching for the first time as a primary instructor.  I would be interested in connecting with other blind teachers to learn some tips about how to create engaging visual aids for my students (who need engaging).  Any tips?

Thanks very much.

Audrey

T. Audrey Medina, M.S.
Co-Director, AccessABILITY Student Union
aability at uoregon.edu
Doctoral Student, Counseling Psychology 
University of Oregon 
medina at uoregon.edu

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  8 01:10:59 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 20:10:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Teachers Out There?
References: <4659BCA41F8E4345A96C4D4D7A6D92AD@DC4V3PD1>
Message-ID: <071C28039928478EA80A4D22E45F9248@Ashley>

Hi,
I can't give you advice, not a teacher.  You may want to join nobe-l the 
teachers list for your questions.  But good luck.  What grade are you 
teaching?  For visuals, consider powerpoint.  Also, making a poster and 
labeling pictures will work too.
I go to Marymount and I'm a senior.

Enjoy the list.
Ashley 



From mgoalball at gmail.com  Sun Feb  8 02:31:03 2009
From: mgoalball at gmail.com (Matt McCubbin)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:31:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Mixer and raffle Reminder
Message-ID: <7165A3185BC54645AAEB9C7CF5BAEDE9@matt>

Hey all,
This is just a reminder, that NABS will be having a student mixer, Monday February 9, 2009, from 9:00 to 11:00 PM. Tickets cost $5 at the door, or buy your ticket Sunday morning during NABS registration from 8:00 to 9:00 for $3. The mixer will feature great music with our exclusive dynamic DJ, karaoke, a cash bar as well as food. Note food is first come, first serve.
NABS is also selling 50-50 raffle tickets, $1 for 1, or $5 for 6. You must be present at the NABS mixer to win.
Please also support your student division, by purchasing a slim, curvy sexy travel mug for $10. This mug features a lock lid, and a limited-edition graduation whozit with cap. Please find a NABS board member, if you have any questions.
We look forward to seeing all of you in Washington!
Best regards,
Matt McCubbin

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Feb  8 05:50:28 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:50:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Keep Warm in DC
In-Reply-To: <D533056591F249A4917BC699840D47A9@MonkeyPaw>
References: <DE0ABE035E5D40CF8D657D1E617781F4@jsquared>
	<D533056591F249A4917BC699840D47A9@MonkeyPaw>
Message-ID: <20090208055028.GA52614@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Joe,

It's a large NFB event.  The economy of the local drinking 
establishments is rather unlikely to suffer greatly.

Joseph

On Sat, Feb 07, 2009 at 03:20:14PM -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Another way to keep warm and help the economy is to visit one of the
>District's many bars.  I've now given up alcohol altogether, but sometime
>back my coworkers and I compiled what turned out to be quite the definitive
>list of watering holes and their daily specials.  Anyway, never mind combing
>the Internet.  I've uploaded the spreadsheet to the page below and trust
>that while there may be some changes, you will at least learn of the
>happening places that keep DC locals jolly year round.
>
>You can find the Excel file at:
>
>http://www.sendspace.com/file/277ulx
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
>Barrie


From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  8 09:30:51 2009
From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 01:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone use the JAWS pen drive?
Message-ID: <530374.34763.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I was curious about something. If I use the pen drive and remove it from, say a store computer, will it leave any traces behind that could harm the system for the next user? I was thinking that JAWS tandem would be a nice way to look at new computers without having to rely on the Windows magnifier or Microsoft Narrator. 



      

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Feb  8 11:23:47 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:23:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Video Description
In-Reply-To: <2F5135E47A2246548A738BB633A9711D@D47YKGH1>
References: <20090205193626.GK40987@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<2F5135E47A2246548A738BB633A9711D@D47YKGH1>
Message-ID: <20090208112347.GB52614@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I do not know which signals they're using where you live, but around 
here all of the new ones have little noises at each pole to help you 
locate the thing (dumb), and are only as loud as they need to be to 
be heard over the traffic at the current intersection.  Each pole 
makes the noise if activated, rather than having one pole make the 
noise for all corners at once.

It is possible to activate the walk light without activating the 
chirper as well.  I just hit the button and walk like any sighted 
person would (just paying more attention than most of them do.)

Joseph

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:50:39PM -0800, Jacob Struiksma wrote:
>The new audible singles are not safe because they will go off when it is not
>your turn when cars are turning.  The new ones are very loud and it makes it
>hard to tell which stop light the sounds are coming from and also the sound
>bounces from the tall buildings  With short blocks it is very hard to tell
>which intersection the sound is coming from..  It makes it hard to hear what
>the cars are doing.  I want to see the sidewalk fixed or improved before any
>audible singles are put in.  
>From
>Jacob Struiksma
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:36 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Video Description
>
>No, actually.  Consider the chirping lights.  The old models are actually
>dangerous to blind people.  Through the NFB's opposition to the things, new
>ones that get installed are much safer.
>
>Many in the NFB still argue the things are basically never necessary.  
>Having them fosters a false sense of security in undertrained blind
>pedestrians.  Without training, they may believe they can cross such a
>street safely, and realize their fatal mistake only when they hear the
>screech of brakes and tires.
>
>On the other side of the coin, the NFB argues that putting the things
>everywhere may cause sighted people to THINK we need them to cross streets.
>We want the blind to think about the things we can do, not the things they
>falsely believe that we cannot.
>
>Neither are good, so the NFB is opposed to the old ones, and indifferent to
>the new ones at best.  Generally, if they're installing the new types that
>are not as loud or have to be actually activated, and if they're installing
>them while they service an intersection (which dramatically reduces costs to
>"just" several thousand per intersection), we don't object too much.
>
>Our opponents like to simplify that position to, "The NFB refuses to allow
>blind people to have these things that would make us safer!"  I suppose it
>is easier to attack an opponent than their argument, though.  This is why I
>hate politics--but that's a whole 'nother email, and I won't write it here.
>*grin*
>
>Joseph
>
>On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 04:51:37AM -0500, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca wrote:
>> Why would they be hostile? Isn't any accommodation a good one?
>>
>> Quoting "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Antonio,
>>>
>>> I don't see it.  What has the NFB done to further video description?
>>> Dr. Maurer has gone on record more than once that he doesn't see the 
>>> need for it, and the NFB has taken a stand against making video 
>>> description mandatory.
>>>
>>> At best, it seems the NFB is indifferent to video descriptions.  It 
>>> seems to be somewhat hostile toward them as an accommodation that we 
>>> don't need.
>>>
>>> Have I missed something?
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:36:46PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think that video description is a non-issue. Blind people   
>>>> appretiate entertainment as much as the next guy, and video   
>>>> description greatly  enhances the viewing experience.
>>>>
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind is resolved to do work to   
>>>> ensure that every picture in every theater is audio described. I   
>>>> think that is a wonderful thing, and wish to see real effort being   
>>>> made on this direction.
>>>>
>>>> Short and sweet for once.
>>>>
>>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnika
>>> r%40utoronto.ca
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph
>> %40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai
>l.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Sun Feb  8 18:16:06 2009
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:16:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Comes Back To ACB Radio Interactive Today
Message-ID: <431BA59B45144591B521F3FF14954B34@homeuser>

Hello To All!
After a week off cause of the super bowl, The Djd Invasion returns to ACB Radio Interactive for another thrilling musical ride where variety is everything, and I just might even have a co host from New York joinine me tonight too!
The fun begins tonight at 5 PM central (6 PM eastern) and goes for three hours!
During the show, you can reach me by email/msn at
request at acbradio.org
by aol instant messenger at
djdrocks
or when I'm not playing a song, feel free to call in at
1-516-874-5071
and you can talk with me live on the air!
As I said, the fun will start at 5 PM central (6 PM eastern) so to listen, save this email, and at the above time mentioned, go to
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html
to be connected with the show. It should be a fun time, so I hope to see you all there!
Best regards,
David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com

From newmanrl at cox.net  Sun Feb  8 18:35:18 2009
From: newmanrl at cox.net (Robert Newman)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:35:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER 142- Literacy Nightmare
Message-ID: <05F581277E194D35AB25FA9904CBA1F6@D78R0TG1>

NABS
RE:  Literacy Nightmare 

Have any of you guys been denied Braille and given print as your main method
of reading and writing, where you really should have been given Braille as
your number one and print as second>? This TP looks at what would happen if
sighted students were denied regular print as their number 1 method for
literacy. If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows.  Recall that I
collect responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and
learn from and that URL is- Http://thoughtprovoker.info
<http://thoughtprovoker.info/>   If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS
sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at-  newmanrl at cox.net 

THOUGHT PROVOKER 142
Literacy Nightmare

"Give Our Children Literacy! Give Our Children Print!" chanted the crowd.

"This is CNN and this is the scene outside Central Elementary School. These
parents are angry and dramatically sending their message to the teachers of
this school and to the State Department of Education." The camera's lens
shows the front of a school.  A mass of people march back and forth  the
length of the block, waving large labeled placards.

WOMP, WOMP, WOMP! The sound of a helicopter is heard over the audio and the
view zooms up to an aerial shot.  We are looking down from a significant
height to a view of the school's entire property, which is surrounded by a
shoulder-to-shoulder phalanx of adults. The focus sharpens to the teacher's
parking lot, where police officers negotiate with parents blocking the
driveway to not allow the drivers of cars penned inside to leave.

The news anchor's face again fills the screen. "You've viewed the scene,
read the placards, and heard the chants. Now walk with me into this throng
and we will learn the specifics of what this is all about.

"Miss, pardon me." The anchor thrust the microphone at a woman waving a
placard labeled LITERACY NOW. "Could you tell our viewers what this
demonstration is about?" 

"Literacy! An efficient method of reading and writing. Our children are
being denied this right."

Seeing the camera, marchers crowd in. 

 "My daughter gets one hour of teaching per week to learn to read!" 

The man behind her shouts out, "The teacher who instructs my son to read and
write is not certified."

A man in a business suit edges in front of the mike, "They tell us that with
the increasing development of technology, computers reading aloud to us is
good enough.  Good enough!"

The first mother grabs the mike, "In my daughter's class they turned off the
computer monitors!"

"M'am, are you reporting the students are being denied seeing what is being
displayed upon the screen?" asked the shocked anchor.

"Not exactly." interjected another marcher. "My daughter tells me they allow
it to be switched on, but it's out of focus. She comes home with a
headache."

A man's face fills the screen. "My son tells me, in his class they have the
font programmed to either enlarge up to a ridiculous size, forcing you to
scroll and scroll to read, or the text is so tiny you have to stick your
nose up to the screen like you are smelling it." With a dramatic gesture he
thrusts forward a sheath of papers. "It goes beyond the computer. Look at
these hardcopy handouts." 

First showing what appears to be a worksheet, but is so light in contrast
that its nature is questionable. The second is in very tiny print. A third
is several pages stapled together and is in gigantic bold letters. "They
tell us it allows our child to function in the print world. But I ask you,
is this adequate in terms of being competitive?"

Another female voice gets the anchor's attention. "Oh, and the books, too!
They are either very large volumes that the average student refuses to use
or they are audio!"

 "Miss, for the sake of the viewers who have just tuned in, could you
clarify the major point of what your group claims is happening here?"

The most efficient method of reading and writing is being withheld from our
children! They say print is becoming obsolete. Literacy for our children is
being greatly restricted and we are not going to allow it anymore."

The face of the anchor again fills the screen as he gives his closing. "Is
the strongest method for reading and writing for these children being
systematically taken away? Is literacy being threatened here in this school
system? These parents think so and when you take away the student's
strongest method of literacy, what do we expect will happen?  This is CNN
action news."  And the screen faded to a last view of the angry, marching
parents.

"AAAHHH!" Marlene, a sighted teacher of blind/VI children, sat bolt upright
in bed, hand to her head. "Oh my God, that was a nightmare! Where did that
come from?" Yesterday's memory of running into Brad, a former VI student
came to mind. "

Brad had been almost bitter when he said, "I should have learnt Braille in
elementary school; it would have been more efficient for me than print.
Ever think what parents of normally sighted kids would do if you didn't
teach their children the most efficient method for reading and writing?"  He
said he was learning Braille now as a college student. 

Marlene flashed back to the scenes in her nightmare. Surely Brad was the
exception?  It was just a nightmare, not reality. Surely?


Robert Leslie Newman 
Email- newmanrl at cox.net
THOUGHT PROVOKER Website- 
Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info


From hjones711 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 00:04:13 2009
From: hjones711 at gmail.com (Hannah Jones)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 18:04:13 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] fourms
Message-ID: <b24a5f590902081604o6cdfa459s180a7de532fca64f@mail.gmail.com>

Some of us have long awaited them, forums for blind people can be found at:
http://blindworld.freeforums.org/

-- 
god bless
Hannah

From cnaylor073 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 01:04:52 2009
From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:04:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fourms
In-Reply-To: <b24a5f590902081604o6cdfa459s180a7de532fca64f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b24a5f590902081604o6cdfa459s180a7de532fca64f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54f02f10902081704j74931b2ei707ce7d2054fa56a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a bunch.

On 2/8/09, Hannah Jones <hjones711 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of us have long awaited them, forums for blind people can be found at:
> http://blindworld.freeforums.org/
>
> --
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Christina


From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Mon Feb  9 15:42:46 2009
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:42:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Teachers Out There?
In-Reply-To: <4659BCA41F8E4345A96C4D4D7A6D92AD@DC4V3PD1>
References: <4659BCA41F8E4345A96C4D4D7A6D92AD@DC4V3PD1>
Message-ID: <f088be8b3e7de.3e7def088be8b@onenet.net>

Audrey, you might want to contact elementary teachers who work at your state's School for the Blind. It shouldn't matter whether or not the teacher was blind or sighted, if they are trained to teach blind students.
If you email me at rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us then I will give you a teacher's email address that I think will help you.  Good Luck and have fun.  

Robert 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Medina" <tmm326 at gmail.com> 
Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009 4:47 pm 
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Teachers Out There? 
To: NABS mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> 

> Hi NABS, 
> 
> I am a graduate student in Oregon who is teaching for the first 
> time as a primary instructor. I would be interested in connecting 
> with other blind teachers to learn some tips about how to create 
> engaging visual aids for my students (who need engaging). Any tips? 
> 
> Thanks very much. 
> 
> Audrey 
> 
> T. Audrey Medina, M.S. 
> Co-Director, AccessABILITY Student Union 
> aability at uoregon.edu 
> Doctoral Student, Counseling Psychology 
> University of Oregon 
> medina at uoregon.edu 
> _______________________________________________ 
> nabs-l mailing list 
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l: 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs- 
> l_nfbnet.org/rmiller%40osb.k12.ok.us

From merisa.musemic at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 15:46:00 2009
From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 10:46:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed
Message-ID: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>

Hey all! I am using gmail. When I try to reply to a message or forward
a message, I am unable to find a forward or reply link. I turned my
keyboard shortcuts on, however when I hit r or f (shortcuts for
forward and reply, Jaws says there are no radio buttons on the page.
I'd also like to set Gmail with outlook express. Can someone tell me
how to do that?
Thanks!
Merisa


From cassonw at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 16:20:44 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 08:20:44 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902090820w4406e288yc0422f2f1744d757@mail.gmail.com>

To reply select the edit box beneath the forward and reply links at the
bottum of the message.  for gmail keyboard shortcuts, either bypass before
hitting the key or turn forms mode on.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 7:46 AM, Merisa Musemic <merisa.musemic at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hey all! I am using gmail. When I try to reply to a message or forward
> a message, I am unable to find a forward or reply link. I turned my
> keyboard shortcuts on, however when I hit r or f (shortcuts for
> forward and reply, Jaws says there are no radio buttons on the page.
> I'd also like to set Gmail with outlook express. Can someone tell me
> how to do that?
> Thanks!
> Merisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.be<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com>

From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 18:04:25 2009
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 12:04:25 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c98ae0$d90b17a0$8b2146e0$@com>

Marissa,
Here is a link that will automaticly configure your gmail to work with
outlook express so you don't have to do the manual settings.
I found this link quite helpful.
http:// www.mccks.edu/support/outlook_exp_help.html - 14k -
Hope this helps,
Sincerely,
Karrie Kinstetter

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Merisa Musemic
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 9:46 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed

Hey all! I am using gmail. When I try to reply to a message or forward
a message, I am unable to find a forward or reply link. I turned my
keyboard shortcuts on, however when I hit r or f (shortcuts for
forward and reply, Jaws says there are no radio buttons on the page.
I'd also like to set Gmail with outlook express. Can someone tell me
how to do that?
Thanks!
Merisa

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/skittlesfreak69%40gm
ail.com
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 02/08/09
17:57:00

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.19/1940 - Release Date: 02/08/09
17:57:00



From iwilcox2011 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 18:06:45 2009
From: iwilcox2011 at gmail.com (Isaiah Wilcox)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:06:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c60ed72a0902091006m14531b86yd6da85aabc81f92b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Merisa,
To assist you in your problems.  you might want to try turning your gmail
page into an HTML format.  To do this just find the link that says view as
HTML.  Also, in order to use Microsoft Outlook, you just go to gmail's
settings and then find the Forwarding and POP/IMAP tab. There will be a link
there to assist you in setting up your account.  If you need any more help,
feel free to e-mail me.

From liamskitten at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 20:55:07 2009
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:55:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <c60ed72a0902091006m14531b86yd6da85aabc81f92b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
	<c60ed72a0902091006m14531b86yd6da85aabc81f92b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7949e5e20902091255g48136634peb273d75cbff4156@mail.gmail.com>

Marissa,

In order to find the forward link and the reply button, look for the
link that says Basic HTML.  After you've clicked it, a forward link
should appear.  It will be below the heading which lists the sender's
address.  There will be several links including print and forward.  To
reply, scroll down to the end of a message.  It will say: quick reply.
 Below that, there will be an edit box.  If you want the entirety of
the message displayed so you can trim unnecessary lines of text as you
are replying, hit the button that says more reply options.  If you
need any more assistance, feel free to E-mail me offlist at
liamskitten at gmail.com and I will attempt to clarify things.
Courtney

On 2/9/09, Isaiah Wilcox <iwilcox2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Merisa,
> To assist you in your problems.  you might want to try turning your gmail
> page into an HTML format.  To do this just find the link that says view as
> HTML.  Also, in order to use Microsoft Outlook, you just go to gmail's
> settings and then find the Forwarding and POP/IMAP tab. There will be a link
> there to assist you in setting up your account.  If you need any more help,
> feel free to e-mail me.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Feb  9 21:56:03 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:56:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid
Message-ID: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>

Hi all,

I thought some of you may have done this even though we are students; I think you only have to be 18 to be certified.  Have any of you taken a first aid or CPR class?  I was considering getting certified in one or both through the American red Cross.  If you did it, how accessible was the class?  I'd imagine CPR would be more accessible.  You have to practice on models which are tactile and the instructor could use you in demonstration to the class.  

But first aid sounds more visual.  I have tunnel vision so can see wounds, but not sure if its enough to apply bandaids to it.  I'd be curious to know your thoughts and any alternative techniques you came up with.  I know for both there is a written exam and for CPR a performance one.  Was the exam read to you?
Hopefully this is possible; I think it would be great to have skills to rescue people.

Thanks.
Ashley

From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 22:23:01 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:23:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid
References: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>
Message-ID: <000501c98b04$f9fae7f0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Hi I took both first aid and cpr. I had an instructor work with me one on 
one. The instructor helped me find ware I had to place my hands on the dummy 
for the chest compressions and how to place my hands for the head tilt chin 
lift. You work with a video but if you need to move a little slower then the 
video that is ok. The instructor also read the test to me at the end. For 
first aid you also go by a video but you also practice what to do when you 
find someone in shock and how to care for woonds. Hope this helps.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 4:56 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid


> Hi all,
>
> I thought some of you may have done this even though we are students; I 
> think you only have to be 18 to be certified.  Have any of you taken a 
> first aid or CPR class?  I was considering getting certified in one or 
> both through the American red Cross.  If you did it, how accessible was 
> the class?  I'd imagine CPR would be more accessible.  You have to 
> practice on models which are tactile and the instructor could use you in 
> demonstration to the class.
>
> But first aid sounds more visual.  I have tunnel vision so can see wounds, 
> but not sure if its enough to apply bandaids to it.  I'd be curious to 
> know your thoughts and any alternative techniques you came up with.  I 
> know for both there is a written exam and for CPR a performance one.  Was 
> the exam read to you?
> Hopefully this is possible; I think it would be great to have skills to 
> rescue people.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 23:02:57 2009
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:02:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid
References: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>
Message-ID: <0213E598BF6842D5BD551113E85FDCCB@Dezman>

Ashley,
I've been certified in First aid and CPR a few times. The classes are very 
hands on and I've always had instructors who were willing to put things in 
more descriptive terms for my benefit.
What I remember about first aid is having to pretend to rap wounds and make 
slings and such for broken bones. This was pretty straight forward and of 
course you're always pretty much working with a partner and you practice on 
each other. With CPR it's a combination of using humans and test dummies and 
the instructor just comes around to make sure that everyone knows how to do 
the techniques and then you're marked off as having mastered that task. The 
written test are multiple choice and usually the instructor or another 
student would read it to me. They're are usually pretty good (at least at 
the red cross) with accommodations. There is a manual that goes with the 
class and if possible, I would recommend getting it ahead of time so that 
you can scan it or whatever you would do to get it in an accessible format. 
They might even be able to send it to you in electronic form. Hope that 
helps.

Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:56 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid


> Hi all,
>
> I thought some of you may have done this even though we are students; I 
> think you only have to be 18 to be certified.  Have any of you taken a 
> first aid or CPR class?  I was considering getting certified in one or 
> both through the American red Cross.  If you did it, how accessible was 
> the class?  I'd imagine CPR would be more accessible.  You have to 
> practice on models which are tactile and the instructor could use you in 
> demonstration to the class.
>
> But first aid sounds more visual.  I have tunnel vision so can see wounds, 
> but not sure if its enough to apply bandaids to it.  I'd be curious to 
> know your thoughts and any alternative techniques you came up with.  I 
> know for both there is a written exam and for CPR a performance one.  Was 
> the exam read to you?
> Hopefully this is possible; I think it would be great to have skills to 
> rescue people.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
> 



From hjones711 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 23:06:36 2009
From: hjones711 at gmail.com (Hannah Jones)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:06:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid
In-Reply-To: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>
References: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>
Message-ID: <b24a5f590902091506p71b6e4b4ub720c8b2dbcd9af1@mail.gmail.com>

It is very visual, but it can be done.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Ashley Bramlett
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I thought some of you may have done this even though we are students; I
> think you only have to be 18 to be certified.  Have any of you taken a first
> aid or CPR class?  I was considering getting certified in one or both
> through the American red Cross.  If you did it, how accessible was the
> class?  I'd imagine CPR would be more accessible.  You have to practice on
> models which are tactile and the instructor could use you in demonstration
> to the class.
>
> But first aid sounds more visual.  I have tunnel vision so can see wounds,
> but not sure if its enough to apply bandaids to it.  I'd be curious to know
> your thoughts and any alternative techniques you came up with.  I know for
> both there is a written exam and for CPR a performance one.  Was the exam
> read to you?
> Hopefully this is possible; I think it would be great to have skills to
> rescue people.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com
>



-- 
god bless
Hannah

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Mon Feb  9 23:22:10 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 15:22:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Teachers Out There?
In-Reply-To: <f088be8b3e7de.3e7def088be8b@onenet.net>
References: <4659BCA41F8E4345A96C4D4D7A6D92AD@DC4V3PD1>
	<f088be8b3e7de.3e7def088be8b@onenet.net>
Message-ID: <20090209232210.GC7539@yumi.bluecherry.net>

There aren't really any elementary teachers at the Oregon School for 
the Blind.  They have three students chronologically in sixth grade 
or younger, and they are not in an academic program.

The suggestion for the NOBE list was a good one, since teachers who 
are blind aren't that very common.  Carla McQuillan is right there in   
Eugene, but otherwise NOBE will have better luck on with the list.

Audrey might be glad she's in Eugene and not Monmouth and therefore 
not close enough to know what the current composition of the School 
for the Blind is.  That's a separate issue, though.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 09:42:46AM -0600, Robert Miller wrote:
>Audrey, you might want to contact elementary teachers who work at your state's School for the Blind. It shouldn't matter whether or not the teacher was blind or sighted, if they are trained to teach blind students.
>If you email me at rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us then I will give you a teacher's email address that I think will help you.  Good Luck and have fun.  
>
>Robert 
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "T. Medina" <tmm326 at gmail.com> 
>Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009 4:47 pm 
>Subject: [nabs-l] Any Teachers Out There? 
>To: NABS mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> 
>
>> Hi NABS, 
>> 
>> I am a graduate student in Oregon who is teaching for the first 
>> time as a primary instructor. I would be interested in connecting 
>> with other blind teachers to learn some tips about how to create 
>> engaging visual aids for my students (who need engaging). Any tips? 
>> 
>> Thanks very much. 
>> 
>> Audrey 
>> 
>> T. Audrey Medina, M.S. 
>> Co-Director, AccessABILITY Student Union 
>> aability at uoregon.edu 
>> Doctoral Student, Counseling Psychology 
>> University of Oregon 
>> medina at uoregon.edu 
>> _______________________________________________ 
>> nabs-l mailing list 
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs- 
>> l_nfbnet.org/rmiller%40osb.k12.ok.us
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From JFreeh at nfb.org  Mon Feb  9 02:33:46 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:33:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to Create
 Work Incentives and Opportunity
Message-ID: <auto-000085119590@mailfront1.g2host.com>

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Christopher Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org



National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to

Create Work Incentives and Opportunity






Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009

Introduced by Congressman Lewis



Washington, D.C. (February 8, 2009):  Congressman John Lewis (D-GA) 
has introduced legislation designed to help blind persons receiving 
Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) to return to work.  The 
Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009 (H.R. 886), will eliminate 
penalties that prevent blind persons from reentering the workforce 
and will facilitate their transition to employment.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
which has long advocated this change in policy, said: "This proposal 
will allow thousands of blind people to rejoin the workforce and 
become productive, tax-paying citizens.  Many blind people are 
understandably reluctant to take entry-level jobs because they are 
penalized by an immediate loss of SSDI benefits, and their work 
income rarely compensates for that loss.  This legislation will allow 
blind persons to make a smooth transition from dependence to 
opportunity.  We will work with Congressman Lewis to ensure the swift 
passage of this landmark legislation."



Congressman Lewis said: "Americans who are blind deserve the same 
opportunities as all other Americans.  Their blindness does not 
prevent them from making valuable contributions to our society, as 
evidenced by the many successful blind people I have personally met 
over the years.  The gifts and opportunities of these citizens should 
not be hindered by policies that discourage them from entering the 
workforce.  That is why I am proud to stand with my blind brothers 
and sisters and introduce this much-needed legislation."







# # #








About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives 
through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading 
force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
the United States for the blind led by the blind.



From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Tue Feb 10 00:21:16 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:21:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT first aid
In-Reply-To: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>
References: <512A49801760446A915AB549D98F292D@Ashley>
Message-ID: <20090209192116.4r5yu7dyscsckw8o@webmail.utoronto.ca>

Hi Ashley,
I took a first-aid course last year for a summer job. My mum came with  
me to describe things, but the instructor was pretty good about doing  
this once he realized description would be necessary. Where possible,  
I was the "victim" so I knew what to do. We didn't have a performance  
test but there was a written one, which the instructor read to me in  
private. It was a multiple choice test so it was okay to do it orally.
Hope this helps,
SarahQuoting Ashley  Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>:

> Hi all,
>
> I thought some of you may have done this even though we are   
> students; I think you only have to be 18 to be certified.  Have any   
> of you taken a first aid or CPR class?  I was considering getting   
> certified in one or both through the American red Cross.  If you did  
>  it, how accessible was the class?  I'd imagine CPR would be more   
> accessible.  You have to practice on models which are tactile and   
> the instructor could use you in demonstration to the class.
>
> But first aid sounds more visual.  I have tunnel vision so can see   
> wounds, but not sure if its enough to apply bandaids to it.  I'd be   
> curious to know your thoughts and any alternative techniques you   
> came up with.  I know for both there is a written exam and for CPR a  
>  performance one.  Was the exam read to you?
> Hopefully this is possible; I think it would be great to have skills  
>  to rescue people.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>





From corbbo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 00:52:39 2009
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:52:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to
	Create Work Incentives and Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <auto-000085119590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000085119590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <1ADB993D-D71B-4ABD-8499-AF73EEE2A817@gmail.com>

Does anybody else find it odd that this press release doesn't tell us  
anything about what the bill actually does, other than a one-sentence  
summary? I *think* I know what this bill is about, based on the  
Washington Seminar materials that I read, but I wonder if the press  
does...I guess we'll see.

Corbb

On Feb 8, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Freeh, Jessica (by way of David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com 
 >) wrote:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Christopher Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

cdanielsen at nfb.org



National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to

Create Work Incentives and Opportunity






Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009

Introduced by Congressman Lewis



Washington, D.C. (February 8, 2009):  Congressman John Lewis (D-GA)  
has introduced legislation designed to help blind persons receiving  
Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) to return to work.  The  
Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009 (H.R. 886), will eliminate  
penalties that prevent blind persons from reentering the workforce and  
will facilitate their transition to employment.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,  
which has long advocated this change in policy, said: "This proposal  
will allow thousands of blind people to rejoin the workforce and  
become productive, tax-paying citizens.  Many blind people are  
understandably reluctant to take entry-level jobs because they are  
penalized by an immediate loss of SSDI benefits, and their work income  
rarely compensates for that loss.  This legislation will allow blind  
persons to make a smooth transition from dependence to opportunity.   
We will work with Congressman Lewis to ensure the swift passage of  
this landmark legislation."



Congressman Lewis said: "Americans who are blind deserve the same  
opportunities as all other Americans.  Their blindness does not  
prevent them from making valuable contributions to our society, as  
evidenced by the many successful blind people I have personally met  
over the years.  The gifts and opportunities of these citizens should  
not be hindered by policies that discourage them from entering the  
workforce.  That is why I am proud to stand with my blind brothers and  
sisters and introduce this much-needed legislation."







# # #








About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is  
the largest and most influential membership organization of blind  
people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives  
through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs  
encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading force  
in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  In  
January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind  
Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the  
United States for the blind led by the blind.


_______________________________________________
Nfbv-announce mailing list
Nfbv-announce at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbv-announce_nfbnet.org



From liamskitten at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 03:28:19 2009
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 21:28:19 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to
	Create Work Incentives and Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <1ADB993D-D71B-4ABD-8499-AF73EEE2A817@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000085119590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<1ADB993D-D71B-4ABD-8499-AF73EEE2A817@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7949e5e20902091928h42606833s19263fa41e415a0b@mail.gmail.com>

Corb,

Could you give us an explanation?  I'm left wondering exactly what I
should be excited about.
Courtney

On 2/9/09, Corbb O'Connor <corbbo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anybody else find it odd that this press release doesn't tell us
> anything about what the bill actually does, other than a one-sentence
> summary? I *think* I know what this bill is about, based on the
> Washington Seminar materials that I read, but I wonder if the press
> does...I guess we'll see.
>
> Corbb
>
> On Feb 8, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Freeh, Jessica (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com
>  >) wrote:
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Christopher Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to
>
> Create Work Incentives and Opportunity
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009
>
> Introduced by Congressman Lewis
>
>
>
> Washington, D.C. (February 8, 2009):  Congressman John Lewis (D-GA)
> has introduced legislation designed to help blind persons receiving
> Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) to return to work.  The
> Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009 (H.R. 886), will eliminate
> penalties that prevent blind persons from reentering the workforce and
> will facilitate their transition to employment.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
> which has long advocated this change in policy, said: "This proposal
> will allow thousands of blind people to rejoin the workforce and
> become productive, tax-paying citizens.  Many blind people are
> understandably reluctant to take entry-level jobs because they are
> penalized by an immediate loss of SSDI benefits, and their work income
> rarely compensates for that loss.  This legislation will allow blind
> persons to make a smooth transition from dependence to opportunity.
> We will work with Congressman Lewis to ensure the swift passage of
> this landmark legislation."
>
>
>
> Congressman Lewis said: "Americans who are blind deserve the same
> opportunities as all other Americans.  Their blindness does not
> prevent them from making valuable contributions to our society, as
> evidenced by the many successful blind people I have personally met
> over the years.  The gifts and opportunities of these citizens should
> not be hindered by policies that discourage them from entering the
> workforce.  That is why I am proud to stand with my blind brothers and
> sisters and introduce this much-needed legislation."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> # # #
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives
> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs
> encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading force
> in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  In
> January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind
> Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the
> United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbv-announce mailing list
> Nfbv-announce at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbv-announce_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From valandkayla at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 05:03:40 2009
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 23:03:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Email Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20902091255g48136634peb273d75cbff4156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
	<c60ed72a0902091006m14531b86yd6da85aabc81f92b@mail.gmail.com>
	<7949e5e20902091255g48136634peb273d75cbff4156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <da706cb30902092103r7d83d515uc2591b17ffd18210@mail.gmail.com>

I know this may not be too helpful, but that's never happened bo me. i
never have used the keyboard shortcuts, but the reply and forward are
buttons, depending on where you're at. maybe you're jaws version has
something to do with it? just a guess.

On 2/9/09, Linda Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com> wrote:
> Marissa,
>
> In order to find the forward link and the reply button, look for the
> link that says Basic HTML.  After you've clicked it, a forward link
> should appear.  It will be below the heading which lists the sender's
> address.  There will be several links including print and forward.  To
> reply, scroll down to the end of a message.  It will say: quick reply.
>  Below that, there will be an edit box.  If you want the entirety of
> the message displayed so you can trim unnecessary lines of text as you
> are replying, hit the button that says more reply options.  If you
> need any more assistance, feel free to E-mail me offlist at
> liamskitten at gmail.com and I will attempt to clarify things.
> Courtney
>
> On 2/9/09, Isaiah Wilcox <iwilcox2011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Merisa,
>> To assist you in your problems.  you might want to try turning your gmail
>> page into an HTML format.  To do this just find the link that says view as
>> HTML.  Also, in order to use Microsoft Outlook, you just go to gmail's
>> settings and then find the Forwarding and POP/IMAP tab. There will be a
>> link
>> there to assist you in setting up your account.  If you need any more
>> help,
>> feel free to e-mail me.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>


From corbbo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 05:04:35 2009
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 00:04:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to
	Create Work Incentives and Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20902091928h42606833s19263fa41e415a0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000085119590@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<1ADB993D-D71B-4ABD-8499-AF73EEE2A817@gmail.com>
	<7949e5e20902091928h42606833s19263fa41e415a0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D7A80843-3D87-4784-8F67-201B76394C9A@gmail.com>

Hi Courtney,

That's exactly my point -- I have a hunch as to what it's getting at  
(that blind folks, under this law, might be under the same--broader-- 
income limits as seniors), but it's not clear at all!

-----
Corbb O'Connor
The George Washington University '10
B.A. Political Communication & Economics

On Feb 9, 2009, at 10:28 PM, Linda Stover wrote:

Corb,

Could you give us an explanation?  I'm left wondering exactly what I
should be excited about.
Courtney

On 2/9/09, Corbb O'Connor <corbbo at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anybody else find it odd that this press release doesn't tell us
> anything about what the bill actually does, other than a one-sentence
> summary? I *think* I know what this bill is about, based on the
> Washington Seminar materials that I read, but I wonder if the press
> does...I guess we'll see.
>
> Corbb
>
> On Feb 8, 2009, at 9:33 PM, Freeh, Jessica (by way of David Andrews
> <dandrews at visi.com
>> ) wrote:
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Christopher Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Praises Bill to
>
> Create Work Incentives and Opportunity
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009
>
> Introduced by Congressman Lewis
>
>
>
> Washington, D.C. (February 8, 2009):  Congressman John Lewis (D-GA)
> has introduced legislation designed to help blind persons receiving
> Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) to return to work.  The
> Blind Persons Return to Work Act of 2009 (H.R. 886), will eliminate
> penalties that prevent blind persons from reentering the workforce and
> will facilitate their transition to employment.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
> which has long advocated this change in policy, said: "This proposal
> will allow thousands of blind people to rejoin the workforce and
> become productive, tax-paying citizens.  Many blind people are
> understandably reluctant to take entry-level jobs because they are
> penalized by an immediate loss of SSDI benefits, and their work income
> rarely compensates for that loss.  This legislation will allow blind
> persons to make a smooth transition from dependence to opportunity.
> We will work with Congressman Lewis to ensure the swift passage of
> this landmark legislation."
>
>
>
> Congressman Lewis said: "Americans who are blind deserve the same
> opportunities as all other Americans.  Their blindness does not
> prevent them from making valuable contributions to our society, as
> evidenced by the many successful blind people I have personally met
> over the years.  The gifts and opportunities of these citizens should
> not be hindered by policies that discourage them from entering the
> workforce.  That is why I am proud to stand with my blind brothers and
> sisters and introduce this much-needed legislation."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> # # #
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives
> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs
> encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading force
> in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  In
> January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind
> Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the
> United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbv-announce mailing list
> Nfbv-announce at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbv-announce_nfbnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com



From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Tue Feb 10 16:03:08 2009
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:03:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
In-Reply-To: <017a01c98ae0$d90b17a0$8b2146e0$@com>
References: <df5bac6d0902090746l29b13601vd3fc0ae95adf7a04@mail.gmail.com>
	<017a01c98ae0$d90b17a0$8b2146e0$@com>
Message-ID: <ee04eb463f221.3f221ee04eb46@onenet.net>

Hey, does anyone know if  Serotek is still offering the free screen-reader “System Access Mobile” which could be downloaded on a USB Flashdrive?  They were offering it to public school students for free.  I used to be able to go to the following link, but now it's not available.  www.serotek.com/kk12.html
 
If there is another free screen-reader available please let me know, thanks. 

Thanks!
Robert

From jess28 at samobile.net  Tue Feb 10 16:26:58 2009
From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica Trask)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:26:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
Message-ID: <20090210162658.15377.69410@biff.serotek.com>

Robert,
Call customer service for Serotek.

-- 
Jessica Trask
www. samobile.net/users/jess28
Facebook Jessica Trask

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Tue Feb 10 16:39:56 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:39:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
Message-ID: <20090210163956.15377.32712@biff.serotek.com>

Hi.

You asked about SEROTEK's screen reader. You are only elegible for Keys 
for K-12 if you're still in the K-12 system. If you are, you'll want to 
contact SEROTEK directly by calling them. There number should be on the 
web site. Their site is under construction so that's why you haven't 
found the link. They recently overhauled their site.

If you are not in the K-12 system, you can still access System Access 
to Go by pointing your browser to http://www.satogo.com. You may want 
to think about getting a full license of System Access for yourself as 
certain license plans will let you have the System Access screen 
reader, the Mobile Network, and the portable U3 key. I have such a 
license and it costs me $24.95 a month for a full buy-out. As you know, 
SEROTEK no longer holds SMA's, so after my buy-out contract ends, I 
need not pay for new screen reader updates but will pay $129 a year for 
my mobile network subscription which includes a whole host of content 
including movies, radio streams, social networking capability, forums, 
chats, weather information, news feeds, and more. JAWS, Hal, and 
Window-Eyes users can sign up for a SAMNET account which gets you the 
content without the screen reader. Just call SEROTEK and see what they 
can do for you. Oh, by the way, tell them Jedi sent you.

I've been a SEROTEK user for a year and love it. I highly recommend it. 
The customer service is fantastic, the tech support amazing and prompt, 
and the service itself is easy to use and completely portable depending 
on how you arrange your service plan. SEROTEK is also selling a range 
of portable computing solutions including netbooks at a reasonable 
price. I highly recommend you stop by SEROTEK at http://www.serotek.com 
or give them a call (their number's on their site). And remember, tell 
'm Jedi sent you!

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us  Tue Feb 10 18:03:10 2009
From: rmiller at osb.k12.ok.us (Robert Miller)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 12:03:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
In-Reply-To: <20090210163956.15377.32712@biff.serotek.com>
References: <20090210163956.15377.32712@biff.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <f00dc03f38934.38934f00dc03f@onenet.net>

Jedi, thanks for the quick reply.  The information you gave will help a lot, thanks again!
Robert.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> 
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:48 am 
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers 
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org 

> Hi. 
> 
> You asked about SEROTEK's screen reader. You are only elegible for 
> Keys 
> for K-12 if you're still in the K-12 system. If you are, you'll 
> want to 
> contact SEROTEK directly by calling them. There number should be 
> on the 
> web site. Their site is under construction so that's why you 
> haven't 
> found the link. They recently overhauled their site. 
> 
> If you are not in the K-12 system, you can still access System 
> Access 
> to Go by pointing your browser to http://www.satogo.com. You may 
> want 
> to think about getting a full license of System Access for 
> yourself as 
> certain license plans will let you have the System Access screen 
> reader, the Mobile Network, and the portable U3 key. I have such a 
> license and it costs me $24.95 a month for a full buy-out. As you 
> know, 
> SEROTEK no longer holds SMA's, so after my buy-out contract ends, 
> I 
> need not pay for new screen reader updates but will pay $129 a 
> year for 
> my mobile network subscription which includes a whole host of 
> content 
> including movies, radio streams, social networking capability, 
> forums, 
> chats, weather information, news feeds, and more. JAWS, Hal, and 
> Window-Eyes users can sign up for a SAMNET account which gets you 
> the 
> content without the screen reader. Just call SEROTEK and see what 
> they 
> can do for you. Oh, by the way, tell them Jedi sent you. 
> 
> I've been a SEROTEK user for a year and love it. I highly 
> recommend it. 
> The customer service is fantastic, the tech support amazing and 
> prompt, 
> and the service itself is easy to use and completely portable 
> depending 
> on how you arrange your service plan. SEROTEK is also selling a 
> range 
> of portable computing solutions including netbooks at a reasonable 
> price. I highly recommend you stop by SEROTEK at 
> http://www.serotek.com 
> or give them a call (their number's on their site). And remember, 
> tell 
> 'm Jedi sent you! 
> 
> -- 
> REspectfully, 
> Jedi 
> 
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. 
> Visit 
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> nabs-l mailing list 
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org 
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l: 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs- 
> l_nfbnet.org/rmiller%40osb.k12.ok.us

From jess28 at samobile.net  Tue Feb 10 19:34:42 2009
From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica Trask)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:34:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
Message-ID: <20090210193442.15377.36760@biff.serotek.com>

Jedi,
Their website is fully up and running I've looked at it two or three 
different times. But the k-12  program isn't listed on their site.

-- 
Jessica Trask
www. samobile.net/users/jess28
Facebook Jessica Trask

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Tue Feb 10 21:42:13 2009
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:42:13 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution
Message-ID: <4813173B1B394E4CAE257AEB72D639CD@davee984e49f02>

It's time to spring in to the digital age of nonproprietary notetakers with an MSI Wind. Currently, HandyTech North America has a number of MSI Wind Packages that would be perfect for the student or any individual looking for a small and truly portable nonproprietary noteTaking solution. 

 

About the MSI wind:

The MSI Wind being offered in this promotion comes in black, a 1.6 GHz
single core processor, 160 GB hard drive, 1 GB of memory, wireless network and Bluetooth 
adaptor, 3 USB ports, integrated Real Tech Ethernet and audio adaptors, 6
cell lithium ion battery and is running Windows XP home. 

The cost of the MSI Wind itself is: $499.00 and is available for purchase
from handy Tech North America independent from this promotion.

Add a subnet SystemAccess screenReader license for $150 and $50 for neospeech for a powerful noteTaker  under $1000. Add the USB CD/DVD drive for another $100 and you have a fully mobile workstation. 


For more information please call:  651-636-5184. or send e-mail to:
sales at handytech.us.

Note that this limited promotion is only available from Handy Tech North
America and participating authorized dealers



Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com

From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 22:40:01 2009
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:40:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] the icon
Message-ID: <58828C45F8EB43498D59829AE4564C66@Dezman>

hey does anyone use the icon mobile manager. How do you like it? Would you recommend it?

Dezman

From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Wed Feb 11 02:09:37 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:09:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
Message-ID: <20090211020937.15377.31545@biff.serotek.com>

Yes, I know. As I said, it's till under construction, but you can still 
access it.


Original message:
> Jedi,
> Their website is fully up and running I've looked at it two or three
> different times. But the k-12  program isn't listed on their site.

> --
> Jessica Trask
> www. samobile.net/users/jess28
> Facebook Jessica Trask

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From ginsenshi at mchsi.com  Wed Feb 11 02:20:27 2009
From: ginsenshi at mchsi.com (Sean Moore)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:20:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1234288803.16781.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.21.1234288803.16781.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <6CE496161F284806BE9C7E8C8154D4AC@SeanMooreLPTP>

Try NVDA and you the lasteast Snapshot. Its not Window Eyes, JAWS or System 
Access but its free and can run a USB.

Http://www.nvda-project.org or
http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Snapshots

Sean and Franklin




From cassonw at gmail.com  Wed Feb 11 03:49:20 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:49:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Free screen-readers
In-Reply-To: <20090211020937.15377.31545@biff.serotek.com>
References: <20090211020937.15377.31545@biff.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902101949s75a7939bu61fc0747ab42db67@mail.gmail.com>

you might also try the wikipedia page on screan readers it seems to have a
pretty good list.  including which are open source or free i think.
Bill

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:

> Yes, I know. As I said, it's till under construction, but you can still
> access it.
>
>
> Original message:
>
>> Jedi,
>> Their website is fully up and running I've looked at it two or three
>> different times. But the k-12  program isn't listed on their site.
>>
>
>  --
>> Jessica Trask
>> www. samobile.net/users/jess28
>> Facebook Jessica Trask
>>
>
> --
> REspectfully,
> Jedi
>
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From info at michaelhingson.com  Thu Feb 12 02:57:11 2009
From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 20:57:11 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile to be featured on this week's Tek Talk
 Training Monday February 16, 2009
Message-ID: <auto-000085457522@mailfront1.g2host.com>



  The Accessible News Wire

 > During this week's Tek Talk event, Jim Gashel, Vice President of Business
 > Development for knfb Reading Technology, Inc. and Michael Hingson,
 > Director
 > of National Sales for the National Federation of the Blind KNFB 
Reader Mobile program will
 > demonstrate
 > their superior Mobile Reader product line for the blind and learning
 > disabled - featuring the first cell phone that reads and translates.
 >
 > The knfb Reader Mobile is a major advancement in print access for the
 > blind.
 > The software, delivered on a multifunction cell phone, allows the user to
 > snap pictures of any printed material and have it read aloud immediately.
 > The first of its kind, the pocket-sized device allows individuals to have
 > print analyzed and read aloud in real time and in real life situations.
 >
 > The latest version is now able to read in a variety of languages including
 > French, German, Dutch, Belgian Dutch, Italian, and Castilian.
 > Additionally,
 > the software is able to translate between languages, displaying and
 > reading
 > aloud translated text.
 >
 > Contact: Jim Gashel
 > Email: <mailto:jim at knfbreader.com>jim at knfbreader.com
 > Direct Line: 443-854-0854
 > Contact: Michael Hingson
 > Email:  <mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>info at michaelhingson.com
 > 888-965-9191
 >
 > Date:  Monday, February 16, 2009.
 >
 > Time:  5:00 p.m. Pacific, 6:00 p.m. Mountain, 7:00 p.m. Central, 8:00 p.m.
 > Eastern and elsewhere in the world Tuesday 1:00 GMT.
 >
 > Where:  Tek Talk Conference Room at:
 >
 > 
<http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2>http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2
 >
 >
 > Or, alternatively,
 >
 > <http://www.accessibleworld.org>http://www.accessibleworld.org 
names on the sign-in screen.
 >
 > All Tek Talk training events are recorded so if you are unable to
 > participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation
 > or podcast from the Tek Talk archives on our website at
 > <http://www.accessibleworld.org>http://www.accessibleworld.org 
<http://www.accessibleworld.org/> .
 >
 > All online interactive programs require no password, are free of charge,
 > and
 > open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a computer,
 > speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly
 > with
 > the presenters and others in the virtual audience.
 >
 > If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online
 > conferencing
 > software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to
 > download
 > and then run. A link to the software is available on every entry screen to
 > the Accessible World online rooms.
 >
 > Sign up information for all Accessible World News Wires and discussion
 > lists
 > are also available at our website: 
<http://www.accessibleworld.org>http://www.accessibleworld.org
 >
 > Media Contacts:
 > Robert Acosta, Chair, Planning Committee
 > 818-998-0044
 > Email: <mailto:boacosta at pacbell.net>boacosta at pacbell.net
 > <http://us.mc836.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=boacosta at pacbell.net>
 > Web: 
<http://www.helpinghands4theblind.com>http://www.helpinghands4theblind.com
 >
 > George Buys
 > CEO. Talking Communities
 > Email: 
<mailto:buys at talkingcommunities.com>buys at talkingcommunities.com 
<mailto:buys at talkingcommunities.com>
 >
 > The Accessible World, a division of Vision Worldwide, Inc. a 501(c)(3)
 > not-for-profit organization, seeks to educate the general public, the
 > disabled community and the professionals who serve them by providing
 > highly relevant information about new products, services, and training
 > opportunities designed specifically to eliminate geographic and access
 > barriers that adversely affect them.
 >



The Michael Hingson Group
      "Speaking with Vision"
                  Michael Hingson, President
                          (415) 827-4084
                    <mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>info at michaelhingson.com
                    www.michaelhingson.com


for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>
http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg

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From terri.rupp at gmail.com  Thu Feb 12 07:12:52 2009
From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:12:52 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Thank you for a successful seminar
Message-ID: <a0d584a0902112312t3bdd779fy2194a43dc1931d6e@mail.gmail.com>

Dear NABS,This past Sunday, NABS held it annual Winter Student Seminar.  I
would like to thank everyone who attended.  I would also like to thank all
of the speakers who did such an excellent job.  We wculdn't have done it
without you there.  For those of you who attend the NABS Mixer Monday night,
we hope you had fun.  If this is something that you would like to see again,
please let us know.  As you heard during the seminar, we will be emailing
those of you who registered a copy of the Student Slate.  If you didn't get
a chance to register, or would like a copy, please visit the NABS website at
www.nabslink.org to become a member.  The Student Slate will also be posted
on www.nabslink.org in just a few days.

If you didn't get a chance to purchase one of our fabulous limited edition
NABS travel mugs in DC, we have some left that can be shipped to you.  These
18 ounce insulated travel mugs have been described as tall, curvy, and sexy.
 They are blue mugs featuring the NFB Logo and whozit wearing a graduation
hat.  The mugs sell for $10 and can be shipped to you including a shipping
fee.  If you would like to get your hands on one of these sexy mugs email me
off list with "NABS Travel Mugs" in the subject line.

Yours,
Terri Rupp, President
National Association of Blind Students
(707)-567-3019
nabs.president at gmail.com

From terri.rupp at gmail.com  Thu Feb 12 07:33:25 2009
From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:33:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Need contact info for the new Delaware Student Division
Message-ID: <a0d584a0902112333s730a10b1o82a21bfd0bd19d76@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Delaware Students,During the Roll Call of States on Sunday's NABS
Seminar, I learned that Delaware has organized a student division.  I'd
really like to get in touch with you.  Please contact me off list.

Yours,
Terri Rupp, President
National Association of Blind Students
(707)-567-3019
nabs.president at gmail.com

From blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 12 22:49:44 2009
From: blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com (Juan Carlos Munoz)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:49:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
Message-ID: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>


Hey NABS
 
This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be holding it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to school in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009

From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 03:22:43 2009
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley Alexander)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:22:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
In-Reply-To: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>

hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
on the nabs list!
Thanks In Advance,
Ashley


On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey NABS
>
> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be holding
> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to school
> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how
> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let
> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 03:23:53 2009
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley Alexander)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:23:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
In-Reply-To: <4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
	<4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4804d1140902121923p268b9554g21184d0d370d2af@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/09, Ashley Alexander <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
> list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
> seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
> but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
> you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
> the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
> money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
> So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
> ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
> could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
> something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
> money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
> at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
> also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
> the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
> have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
> We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
> on the nabs list!
> Thanks In Advance,
> Ashley
>
>
> On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey NABS
>>
>> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
>> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be
>> holding
>> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to
>> school
>> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
>> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how
>> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let
>> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
>> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
>


From JFreeh at nfb.org  Fri Feb 13 03:38:09 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:38:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Responds to Authors Guild
 Statement on the Amazon Kindle 2
Message-ID: <auto-000085724071@mailfront1.g2host.com>

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT:
Chris Danielsen
Director of Public Relations
National Federation of the Blind
(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org

National Federation of the Blind Responds to Authors Guild
Statement on the Amazon Kindle 2

Baltimore, Maryland (February 12, 2009): The National Federation of 
the Blind, the largest organization of blind people in the United 
States, today responded to a statement put out by the Authors Guild 
advising its members to consider negotiating contracts prohibiting 
e-books to be read aloud by the new Amazon Kindle 2, which 
incorporates text-to-speech technology. The Authors Guild argues that 
the reading of a book out loud by a machine is a copyright 
infringement unless the copyright holder has specifically granted 
permission for the book to be read aloud.

Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
said: "The National Federation of the Blind supports all technologies 
that allow blind people to have better access to the printed word, 
including the ability of devices like the Kindle 2 to read commercial 
e-books aloud using text-to-speech technology. Although the Authors 
Guild claims that it supports making books accessible to the blind, 
its position on the inclusion of text-to-speech technology in the 
Kindle 2 is harmful to blind people. The Authors Guild says that 
having a book read aloud by a machine in the privacy of one's home or 
vehicle is a copyright infringement. But blind people routinely use 
readers, either human or machine, to access books that are not 
available in alternative formats like Braille or audio. Up until now, 
no one has argued that this is illegal, but now the Authors Guild 
says that it is. This is absolutely wrong. The blind and other 
readers have the right for books to be presented to us in the format 
that is most useful to us, and we are not violating copyright law as 
long as we use readers, either human or machine, for private rather 
than public listening. The key point is that reading aloud in private 
is the same whether done by a person or a machine, and reading aloud 
in private is never an infringement of copyright.

"Amazon has taken a step in the right direction by including 
text-to-speech technology for reading e-books aloud on its new Kindle 
2," Dr. Maurer continued. "We note, however, that the device itself 
cannot be used independently by a blind reader because the controls 
to download a book and begin reading it aloud are visual and 
therefore inaccessible to the blind. We urge Amazon to rectify this 
situation as soon as possible in order to make the Kindle 2 a device 
that truly can be used both by blind and sighted readers. By doing 
so, Amazon will make it possible for blind people to purchase a new 
book and begin reading it immediately, just as sighted people do."



###



About the National Federation of the Blind

With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives 
through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force 
in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In 
January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind 
Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the 
United States for the blind led by the blind.



From passionflower505 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 13 03:59:19 2009
From: passionflower505 at yahoo.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:59:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
In-Reply-To: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <220845.67009.qm@web65607.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

The easiest option would be a 50/50 raffle. Make a ticket with two of the same number on it and rip it in half when sold. Give one half to the buyer, and put the other in to a drawing bag.

That is the only thing our student division has done. ,and while we are not the richest, we decided on it because we did not want to invest our money in purchasing things that might not get sold quite yet until we raise a good treasury foundation
Cindy

--- On Thu, 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Thursday, February 12, 2009, 5:49 PM
> Hey NABS
>  
> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in
> because I need some fundraising ideas. The Texas Association
> of Blind Students will be holding it's annual spring
> conference next month in Austin, and if you go to school in
> Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if
> any of you would be willing to share your ideas for raising
> any amount of money, how successful the project was, etc.
> You can e-mail me offline or you can let everyone else in on
> your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look forward
> to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>  
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to
> connect. 
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/passionflower505%40yahoo.com


      


From blind.subscriber at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 05:36:04 2009
From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 00:36:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
In-Reply-To: <4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
	<4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAANDgCwCkws5MjINsB9e5GikBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hey Ashley,

It is good to see you on the list. It has been disappointing to me to see
how many people have not shared this list serve to other students. We need
to spread the word better, for this list serve can only be a strong as the
collective interest and minds make it.

Remember all you have to do is tell people www.nfbnet.org and they got it!

On the topic of fundraising Michigan came up with the idea of having a bar
sponsor their cause and getting a band to play for them for a Friday night.
I am in the process of looking into something similar, but do not know of
the effectiveness of such a fundraiser. I like jazz, and I have heard that
there is a really good blind jazz artist in Atlanta, so I have begun trying
to touch base with that individual for help.

Mandarino,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
of Ashley Alexander
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas

hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
on the nabs list!
Thanks In Advance,
Ashley


On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey NABS
>
> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be holding
> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to
school
> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how
> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let
> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows LiveT: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
>
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gm
ail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
mail.com



From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Fri Feb 13 20:08:45 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:08:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to the
	list
Message-ID: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>

Hi there.
I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make some friends along the way.
So here's a little bit about me.
My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
I am totally blind and have been since birth.
I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this time or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under this list.
I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around in bookstores and music shops.
I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for hours.
I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able to meet someone at some point in my life.
My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel free to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.
Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB and I try to be neutral on both fronts.
I know there has always been some disagreements between both organizations when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved with the political aspects of the organization.
I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some new friends.
If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off list.
My email address is
jmatte28 at comcast.net
Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
My screen name is tvvault82
I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
Sincerely Jonathan.

From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 20:20:40 2009
From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:20:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Need contact info for the new Delaware Student Division
References: <a0d584a0902112333s730a10b1o82a21bfd0bd19d76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009601c98e18$8af74530$dd49a962@Jessica>


Hello all,

Anyone on this list who programs or does sys admin work should know
that most computers and languages measure time from January 1st, 1970.
When you get a time in most programs, you are actually getting a very
long number that is the number of milliseconds from that date.

Well today the epoch timer will reach 1234567890 seconds at 23:31:30
UTC

Here is a site that is tracking it
http://coolepochcountdown.com/

In the sprit, here is the xkcd on the subject
http://xkcd.com/376/
<img src="
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bug.png" />



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Feb 13 20:48:53 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:48:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Olympus Recorder File Transfers
Message-ID: <003d01c98e1c$7c08f4c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good afternoon everyone,

    I've been contacted by someone wishing to purchass an Olympus Recorder 
for recording an up-coming event. They wish to post the recordings to their 
Web site when the event is over. I have heard that there are accessibility 
issues with the software that comes with this line of recorders that could 
present problems when transferring files from the recorder to a PC for 
further processing and archiving. How can these issues best be delt with? 
Can a direct transfer via My Computer be done with this product rather than 
using the software supplied with it? They want to record a conference in 
April so we have plenty of time to coach them on how to use the device and 
to work out these concerns prior to the event. Thanks for your help.

Peter Donahue

 "Given a chance to dream it can be done.
The promise of tomorrow is real.
Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
Flying for Me,
John Denver 



From aguimaraes at nbp.org  Fri Feb 13 20:54:49 2009
From: aguimaraes at nbp.org (Antonio Guimaraes)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:54:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
	thelist
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <01C91962EC8D4CA588792871686EC820@nbp2.local>

Hello John,

I saw this message on the other NABS list back in December, and it's good to 
hear from you again.

this is a pretty high traffic list, so you're bound to find something 
interesting, helpful, and informative. Anything student-related goes, so 
don't be surprised if some of it does not relate to a none-student.

If you haven't yet seen, mozy your way onto our new web site and let us know 
what you think.

the address is

www.nabslink.org

Regards,

Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.

Customer Service Representative
National Braille Press
1800 548-read, ext 40.
aguimaraes at nbp.org

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:08 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to 
thelist


> Hi there.
> I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I 
> like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I 
> thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in 
> the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make 
> some friends along the way.
> So here's a little bit about me.
> My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
> I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located 
> roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
> I am totally blind and have been since birth.
> I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this time 
> or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would 
> probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under 
> this list.
> I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which 
> include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the 
> phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around 
> in bookstores and music shops.
> I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for 
> hours.
> I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able 
> to meet someone at some point in my life.
> My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a 
> bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more 
> specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel free 
> to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.
> Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to 
> everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB 
> and I try to be neutral on both fronts.
> I know there has always been some disagreements between both organizations 
> when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to 
> take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved 
> with the political aspects of the organization.
> I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some 
> new friends.
> If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off 
> list.
> My email address is
> jmatte28 at comcast.net
> Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
> My screen name is tvvault82
> I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
> Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
> Sincerely Jonathan.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org
> 




From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 21:02:24 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:02:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
	thelist
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <006101c98e1e$6035a020$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Hi My name is Rania, Welcome to the list. I am looking for another school to 
go to for massage therapy since I didn't finish the program ware I was 
attending. This list has been vary helpful. Feel free to ask questions.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:08 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to 
thelist


> Hi there.
> I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I 
> like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I 
> thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in 
> the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make 
> some friends along the way.
> So here's a little bit about me.
> My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
> I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located 
> roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
> I am totally blind and have been since birth.
> I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this time 
> or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would 
> probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under 
> this list.
> I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which 
> include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the 
> phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around 
> in bookstores and music shops.
> I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for 
> hours.
> I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able 
> to meet someone at some point in my life.
> My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a 
> bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more 
> specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel free 
> to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.
> Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to 
> everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB 
> and I try to be neutral on both fronts.
> I know there has always been some disagreements between both organizations 
> when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to 
> take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved 
> with the political aspects of the organization.
> I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some 
> new friends.
> If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off 
> list.
> My email address is
> jmatte28 at comcast.net
> Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
> My screen name is tvvault82
> I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
> Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
> Sincerely Jonathan.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 20:57:49 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:57:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
In-Reply-To: <4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
	<4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4995DECD.1080408@gmail.com>

Hey, I think you're the girl I met at the mixer.  Nice to meet you!  I 
myself am looking for any advice that I can get to work on OABS.


Ashley Alexander wrote:
> hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
> list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
> seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
> but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
> you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
> the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
> money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
> So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
> ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
> could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
> something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
> money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
> at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
> also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
> the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
> have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
> We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
> on the nabs list!
> Thanks In Advance,
> Ashley
> 
> 
> On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey NABS
>>
>> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
>> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be holding
>> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to school
>> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
>> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how
>> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let
>> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
>> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
> 

-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - Recording Secretary


From hjones711 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 14 00:33:08 2009
From: hjones711 at gmail.com (Hannah Jones)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:33:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
Message-ID: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all
Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me questions
than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind person
(me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question and
answer part any ideas of what i should say?
-- 
god bless
Hannah

From nijat1989 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 14 03:02:59 2009
From: nijat1989 at gmail.com (gmail)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:02:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
References: <BAY136-W9D4B3E88AFD82E3F28B0ADFBB0@phx.gbl>
	<4804d1140902121922u305d4f78o1573f6a7bf220426@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C17426F58E1344409D3F8EB500A3613F@Nijatash>

Hi Ashley,
   Welcome to the NABS list. We will be glad to give you advice any time you 
need it.
   Both of those are good fundraiser ideas. Make sure that you are not the 
only one doing the selling. Get other people from your state student 
division to help you out. Also, I have found that it is very hard to do 
fundraising at NFB events since everybody else is doing the same thing. You 
have to make sure that whatever you are selling is unique, or otherwise you 
will not be able to sell it. As you know, many divisions of the NFB sell 
candy, food, hats, and tee-shirts at convention, therefore, it is very hard 
to raise lot of money at national events. However, concentrate on local 
events. Do not just do fundraisers at NFB events. Make sure that you go out 
into the community in your city, school, and community to do fundraising. Go 
to local parades, festivals, and anywhere else where you can sell food or 
anything else. Some chapters have done car washes to raise money. Some 
chapters have gone to local book stores to wrap books or presents during 
holidays. Some chapters go to parades and sell ears of corn and other 
delicious stuff. Again, do not limit yourselves to the blind community.
   I hope these ideas help.
   Nijat

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Alexander" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas


hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
on the nabs list!
Thanks In Advance,
Ashley


On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey NABS
>
> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be holding
> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to 
> school
> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how
> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let
> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com 



From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb 14 06:09:31 2009
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:09:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] PK for sale
Message-ID: <6009DD5CFECA4703BF4303A7E9BD5C9D@davee984e49f02>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David" <shotgun at byrdsoft.com>
To: <gps-talkusers at freelists.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:57 AM
Subject: [gps-talkusers] PK for sale


>I have a PK equipped with Sendero's GPS 5.3 and one SMA update.  It also 
>has or will soon have version 8.0 of KeySoft when it is available.  I will 
>include all cables and the newest case offered by Executive Cases for the 
>PK.  It is in excellent condition, I'd like $1600 for it.
>
> Contact me off list at shotgun at byrdsoft.com if you are interested.
>
> Dave
>
> "War remains the decisive human failure."
> John Kenneth Galbraith
>
> 



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Sat Feb 14 14:23:01 2009
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 08:23:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
	<006101c98e1e$6035a020$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>
Message-ID: <691DEE2908B04CDFB422ADFF8CFD3C0B@homeuser>

Hello To All!
I am in the market for an accessible digital recorder that has stereo sound 
preferbily. I know the olympus models have some good recorders, but if there 
are better ones out there, I'd be interested. Can't afford the victor stream 
now or would get that instead. But I am looking for a digital recorder that 
has built in stereo capability and maybe has voice guidance through the 
various menus. Would also be interested to know if what ever models you 
recommend could be purchased at radio shack, target, bestbuy, etc. I need to 
get one soon, as I will need it for my classes.
Hope someone can help.
>From David 



From minesm at me.com  Sat Feb 14 17:02:27 2009
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:02:27 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder
In-Reply-To: <691DEE2908B04CDFB422ADFF8CFD3C0B@homeuser>
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
	<006101c98e1e$6035a020$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>
	<691DEE2908B04CDFB422ADFF8CFD3C0B@homeuser>
Message-ID: <54A87327-CD08-4289-B15C-05416EC8391E@me.com>

I'm curios, what platform?


On Feb 14, 2009, at 7:23 AM, David Dunphy wrote:

> Hello To All!
> I am in the market for an accessible digital recorder that has  
> stereo sound preferbily. I know the olympus models have some good  
> recorders, but if there are better ones out there, I'd be  
> interested. Can't afford the victor stream now or would get that  
> instead. But I am looking for a digital recorder that has built in  
> stereo capability and maybe has voice guidance through the various  
> menus. Would also be interested to know if what ever models you  
> recommend could be purchased at radio shack, target, bestbuy, etc. I  
> need to get one soon, as I will need it for my classes.
> Hope someone can help.
>> From David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm 
> %40me.com



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 14 18:11:18 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:11:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution
References: <4813173B1B394E4CAE257AEB72D639CD@davee984e49f02>
Message-ID: <4509279A858F4D748C064F2572EFADCD@D3ZCJ891>

What is a subnet SystemAccess screenReader?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Wright" <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB of Illinois Mailing List" <il-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
"Illinois Association of Blind Students List" <iabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution


It's time to spring in to the digital age of nonproprietary notetakers with 
an MSI Wind. Currently, HandyTech North America has a number of MSI Wind 
Packages that would be perfect for the student or any individual looking for 
a small and truly portable nonproprietary noteTaking solution.



About the MSI wind:

The MSI Wind being offered in this promotion comes in black, a 1.6 GHz
single core processor, 160 GB hard drive, 1 GB of memory, wireless network 
and Bluetooth
adaptor, 3 USB ports, integrated Real Tech Ethernet and audio adaptors, 6
cell lithium ion battery and is running Windows XP home.

The cost of the MSI Wind itself is: $499.00 and is available for purchase
from handy Tech North America independent from this promotion.

Add a subnet SystemAccess screenReader license for $150 and $50 for 
neospeech for a powerful noteTaker  under $1000. Add the USB CD/DVD drive 
for another $100 and you have a fully mobile workstation.


For more information please call:  651-636-5184. or send e-mail to:
sales at handytech.us.

Note that this limited promotion is only available from Handy Tech North
America and participating authorized dealers



Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From blindhistory at gmail.com  Sat Feb 14 19:57:46 2009
From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:57:46 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
In-Reply-To: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ea6d2ed00902141157n669f89dt1128ff6b3145af36@mail.gmail.com>

there are varying degrees of blindness. I am legally blind and people alot
of the time don't think I am blind because I can see color.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Hannah Jones <hjones711 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> --
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle

From minesm at me.com  Sat Feb 14 22:18:04 2009
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 15:18:04 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Olympus Recorder File Transfers
In-Reply-To: <003d01c98e1c$7c08f4c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <003d01c98e1c$7c08f4c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <72ECA86D-3139-4D17-A071-6CA8AFB84979@me.com>

I have successfully transfered files from my DS40 to a computer in  
both Mac, Linux, and Windows. You should be able to do this without  
the software.

On Feb 13, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:

> Good afternoon everyone,
>
>    I've been contacted by someone wishing to purchass an Olympus  
> Recorder
> for recording an up-coming event. They wish to post the recordings  
> to their
> Web site when the event is over. I have heard that there are  
> accessibility
> issues with the software that comes with this line of recorders that  
> could
> present problems when transferring files from the recorder to a PC for
> further processing and archiving. How can these issues best be delt  
> with?
> Can a direct transfer via My Computer be done with this product  
> rather than
> using the software supplied with it? They want to record a  
> conference in
> April so we have plenty of time to coach them on how to use the  
> device and
> to work out these concerns prior to the event. Thanks for your help.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> "Given a chance to dream it can be done.
> The promise of tomorrow is real.
> Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
> Flying for Me,
> John Denver
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  
> for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm 
> %40me.com



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 14 22:42:44 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:42:44 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Test 02-42 PM
Message-ID: <3B61C9F3C5464B9E87E07361DFEF42D2@D3ZCJ891>

Just seeing how long this takes to get through. I posted a response at least two hours ago, and it still has not come through yet.

From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 15 00:00:17 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:00:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
	thelist
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <003801c98f00$63f08990$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Jonathan and listers,

    You're from Brockton? I'm originally from there myself but now live in 
San Antonio Texas with my family and my wife Mary. I've been wanting to chat 
with someone from Brockton for a while now. You know Brockton has a chapter. 
I'm not sure who their president is these days, but I used to belong to it 
when I was still there. Hope to chat with you more in the future.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to 
thelist


Hi there.
I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I 
like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I 
thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in the 
hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make some 
friends along the way.
So here's a little bit about me.
My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located 
roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
I am totally blind and have been since birth.
I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this time 
or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would probably 
have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under this list.
I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which 
include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the 
phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around in 
bookstores and music shops.
I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for hours.
I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able to 
meet someone at some point in my life.
My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a 
bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more specifically 
about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel free to ask and 
I'll be happy to elaborate.
Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to everyone 
on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB and I try 
to be neutral on both fronts.
I know there has always been some disagreements between both organizations 
when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to take 
a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved with 
the political aspects of the organization.
I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some new 
friends.
If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off 
list.
My email address is
jmatte28 at comcast.net
Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
My screen name is tvvault82
I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
Sincerely Jonathan.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 15 00:16:00 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:16:00 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Test Again 4-15
Message-ID: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>

My test from 2-42 did not go through.

From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 00:28:13 2009
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:28:13 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Hello.  Just introducing myself.
Message-ID: <32CD2D1938B549F0AC6FFFAD00916B5A@DavidWebsterPC>

        Hi folks.  I'm Dave.  I'm from California but live in Arkansas now.  I'm not a student but hope its ok I'm on the list.  Anyhow I like the stuff I've seen so far and hope I can get to know some folks here on the list especially here in the Arkansas area.  .

From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 01:47:15 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:47:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Test 02-42 PM
References: <3B61C9F3C5464B9E87E07361DFEF42D2@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <6130A3DC19D04E848660272F897610D5@homexpuser>

i got your test email but never saw whatever response your refering to


From thisischris89 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 01:52:02 2009
From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:52:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Olympus Recorder File Transfers
In-Reply-To: <003d01c98e1c$7c08f4c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <003d01c98e1c$7c08f4c0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <3D905D8954EF41499D363807FB319ADE@consumer281f9d>

Hi,
Having the software isn't exactly essential as the DS series has support for
the USB mass storage class.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:49 PM
To: NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List
Cc: nfb-web at nfbnet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindcasting at freelists.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Olympus Recorder File Transfers

Good afternoon everyone,

    I've been contacted by someone wishing to purchass an Olympus Recorder 
for recording an up-coming event. They wish to post the recordings to their 
Web site when the event is over. I have heard that there are accessibility 
issues with the software that comes with this line of recorders that could 
present problems when transferring files from the recorder to a PC for 
further processing and archiving. How can these issues best be delt with? 
Can a direct transfer via My Computer be done with this product rather than 
using the software supplied with it? They want to record a conference in 
April so we have plenty of time to coach them on how to use the device and 
to work out these concerns prior to the event. Thanks for your help.

Peter Donahue

 "Given a chance to dream it can be done.
The promise of tomorrow is real.
Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
Flying for Me,
John Denver 


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l.com



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 15 01:57:50 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:57:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution
References: <4813173B1B394E4CAE257AEB72D639CD@davee984e49f02>
Message-ID: <0692FA5CFE4E44FE9FBA591CA44AABAC@D3ZCJ891>

What's a subnet SystemAccess screenReader?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Wright" <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB of Illinois Mailing List" <il-talk at nfbnet.org>; 
"Illinois Association of Blind Students List" <iabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution


It's time to spring in to the digital age of nonproprietary notetakers with 
an MSI Wind. Currently, HandyTech North America has a number of MSI Wind 
Packages that would be perfect for the student or any individual looking for 
a small and truly portable nonproprietary noteTaking solution.



About the MSI wind:

The MSI Wind being offered in this promotion comes in black, a 1.6 GHz
single core processor, 160 GB hard drive, 1 GB of memory, wireless network 
and Bluetooth
adaptor, 3 USB ports, integrated Real Tech Ethernet and audio adaptors, 6
cell lithium ion battery and is running Windows XP home.

The cost of the MSI Wind itself is: $499.00 and is available for purchase
from handy Tech North America independent from this promotion.

Add a subnet SystemAccess screenReader license for $150 and $50 for 
neospeech for a powerful noteTaker  under $1000. Add the USB CD/DVD drive 
for another $100 and you have a fully mobile workstation.


For more information please call:  651-636-5184. or send e-mail to:
sales at handytech.us.

Note that this limited promotion is only available from Handy Tech North
America and participating authorized dealers



Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com
_______________________________________________
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 15 03:47:13 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 19:47:13 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Test 02-42 PM
References: <3B61C9F3C5464B9E87E07361DFEF42D2@D3ZCJ891>
	<6130A3DC19D04E848660272F897610D5@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <43C63F29FCBC4EEE8F912BEACEB29080@D3ZCJ891>

There's one that never went through that I re-sent, and the resend did go 
through.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Test 02-42 PM


i got your test email but never saw whatever response your refering to

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From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 04:05:27 2009
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:05:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Test Again 4-15
In-Reply-To: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>
References: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <7949e5e20902142005s2e041398v301a15a9d6a847e2@mail.gmail.com>

Nicole,

This one came through.
Courtney

On 2/14/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> My test from 2-42 did not go through.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 04:26:28 2009
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 22:26:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Test 02-42 PM
In-Reply-To: <3B61C9F3C5464B9E87E07361DFEF42D2@D3ZCJ891>
References: <3B61C9F3C5464B9E87E07361DFEF42D2@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <7949e5e20902142026v520ea03bhc5e417e24ca3a34d@mail.gmail.com>

Nicole,

I just received your response and it is 10:24 central time.
Courtney

On 2/14/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Just seeing how long this takes to get through. I posted a response at least
> two hours ago, and it still has not come through yet.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 15 04:43:58 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:43:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea6d2ed00902141157n669f89dt1128ff6b3145af36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0A4B6108E294624A2FDE0CA0E90A142@D3ZCJ891>

I forget the exact numbers, but I read in a book once that the word blind 
refers to just a tiny bit of vision loss to totally blind. Blind is not like 
the word deaf; deaf usually means no hearing or not enough to comprehend 
speech, but blind refers to the entire range.
Maybe tell them how they can best assist you. One of my pet peeves (and I 
that people just don't know better) is when someone goes to lead me, and 
they grab me instead of letting me hold onto their arm.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lora and Myrtle" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pannel


there are varying degrees of blindness. I am legally blind and people alot
of the time don't think I am blind because I can see color.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Hannah Jones <hjones711 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me 
> questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind 
> person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question 
> and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> --
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
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From amylsabo at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 04:44:17 2009
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 04:44:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
 the list
In-Reply-To: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <2056120238.540621234673057874.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello john,

welcome to the land of nabs. i'm glad that you decided to join us for some unique but some major fun here! it doesn't matter that you aren't a student at all there are some  people here who aren't students anymore but, were at one time but decided to stay for interaction and all! i hope that you enjoy this list as i have for many years!

i have also met many friends here and shared lots of information to and also given lots of advice too! so your presence will be greatly appreciated here and welcome... well, that's all for now take care and i will talk to you soon!


hugs,
from amy sabo 

----- Original Message -----

From: jonathan matte 

To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org

Sent: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:08:45 +0000 (UTC)

Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to the list



Hi there.

I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make some friends along the way.

So here's a little bit about me.

My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.

I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.

I am totally blind and have been since birth.

I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this time or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under this list.

I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around in bookstores and music shops.

I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for hours.

I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able to meet someone at some point in my life.

My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel free to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.

Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB and I try to be neutral on both fronts.

I know there has always been some disagreements between both organizations when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved with the political aspects of the organization.

I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some new friends.

If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off list.

My email address is

jmatte28 at comcast.net

Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.

My screen name is tvvault82

I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.

Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.

Sincerely Jonathan.

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From amylsabo at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 04:54:09 2009
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 04:54:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder
In-Reply-To: <691DEE2908B04CDFB422ADFF8CFD3C0B@homeuser>
Message-ID: <294263992.542661234673649439.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello david,

as to help you out in finding a acessible digital recorder i have a idea that might help you out. my sister had a sony i cannot remember the model or type at all since when my mom was here visiting me well when i was sick with my surgery she was doing some major cleaning and since she wasn't using she gave it to my mom to give to my dad.

but, she forgot to give the cd to mom so i believe that she still has the cd. she had purchased it at the bookstore here in littleton where she begun her schooling. so, if i find the cd over the weekend i will email to you the model number and type and all. but, to see if you can purchase this at like best buy, target, and all you can go to www.sony.com
 to find it out. i hope that this was helpful for you. take care and good luck in finding a good acessible digital recorder for your needs!


hugs always,
from amy


----- Original Message -----

From: David Dunphy 

To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 

Sent: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 14:23:01 +0000 (UTC)

Subject: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder



Hello To All!

I am in the market for an accessible digital recorder that has stereo sound 

preferbily. I know the olympus models have some good recorders, but if there 

are better ones out there, I'd be interested. Can't afford the victor stream 

now or would get that instead. But I am looking for a digital recorder that 

has built in stereo capability and maybe has voice guidance through the 

various menus. Would also be interested to know if what ever models you 

recommend could be purchased at radio shack, target, bestbuy, etc. I need to 

get one soon, as I will need it for my classes.

Hope someone can help.

>From David 





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From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 04:59:09 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself
	tothelist
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser>
	<003801c98f00$63f08990$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <9A01C1C3221E42BEBB46EDCA18197FBB@homexpuser>

Hi there.
I wasn't aware that Brockton has a chapter there doesn't seem to be a 
massachusetts list serve around here 



From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 05:08:03 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:08:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just posting again to the list
Message-ID: <BDECBD7A577E43989B9167632E84DB37@homexpuser>

hi there again folks.
I'm not sure if some of you didn't happen to read the post i placed yesterday but I thought I would just send out a brief re cap again because I was disappointed by the lack of responses I got to my post.
My name is Jonathan but most of my friends call me Jon.
I'm a new member from Massachusetts and come from Brockton a city located about 45 minutes south of Boston.
I consider myself to be pretty laid back but I do have a wide range of interests some of which include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around in gbookstores and music shops to name only a few.
I'm not currently in college myself at this time and am not exactly sure what my future plans are with regard to this sort of thing but I figured I would most likely be able to meet people roughly my own age under this list serve.
I'm single and don't have kids though who isn't looking to find that special someone.
I received a few responses, but I'm also aware that there are many people who read the lists that don't generally reply but I'm really interested in getting to know new people.
So if you feel up to messaging me there are a few ways to reach me.
You can email me.
My email address is
jmatte28 at comcast.net
or you can IM me on aim.
My screen name is tvvault82
Unfortunately I do not have or use MSN Messenger or Skype but I'm very good about getting back to people so if you do email me you will hear back from me fairly quickly.
Hope everyone is having a good weekend and maybe I'll end up hearing from some more folks.

Take care.

From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 15 05:13:17 2009
From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:13:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] the eagerness to get involved and be active
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS6970D3FB3B84C63240BC5BAB60@phx.gbl>

hi to all liters,
I am trying to get involved in this project that takes place for 8 days in another country only because I went to this human rights conference yesterday
After I went to the human rights conference at keen University, I receive an email about a great opportunity to participate in a tour at the Dominican republic where you become active in community service projects throughout the stay in that particular country by helping the impoverished population with different organizations.
in other words, it is like a form of being involved as a volunteer at the peace corpse.
I know that I need some accommodations especially when it comes to traveling alone for the first time to an unfamiliar setting.
But, I don't know how to ask or answer this particular question only because I am iffy due to the different interpretations that society has towards us.
I think that we are equal just like all of the other society members throughout the world, and it is very sad to see so much discrimination and prejudice as well as the huge amount of inequality we receive when it comes to accessing certain things even if we strive to be independent.
Although we do our best to be as independent as possible, we all face many challenges when we want to try to participate in certain activities such as going to museums of art as an example.
So, I am only saying this because I need some tips on how to deal with this being that I never traveled abroad before and I would really like to do this since I still have the opportunity to learn a lot because as I get older, it will be more difficult when I start working.

Thank you very much.


Priscilla

From hjones711 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 05:17:43 2009
From: hjones711 at gmail.com (Hannah Jones)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:17:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
In-Reply-To: <ea6d2ed00902141157n669f89dt1128ff6b3145af36@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea6d2ed00902141157n669f89dt1128ff6b3145af36@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b24a5f590902142117l348600le3337e9c85c09593@mail.gmail.com>

I totally agree with you.

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Lora and Myrtle <blindhistory at gmail.com>wrote:

> there are varying degrees of blindness. I am legally blind and people alot
> of the time don't think I am blind because I can see color.
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Hannah Jones <hjones711 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> > Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> > college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked
> a
> > lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me
> questions
> > than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind
> person
> > (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question
> and
> > answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> > --
> > god bless
> > Hannah
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com
>



-- 
god bless
Hannah

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 15 05:22:24 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:22:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B26CD8CD34504FBD917F1056D623AA6F@D3ZCJ891>

Am I the only one who sometimes receives the reply to messages before the 
actual message?

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hannah Jones" <hjones711 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel


Hi all
Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me questions
than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind person
(me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question and
answer part any ideas of what i should say?
-- 
god bless
Hannah
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 15 05:32:15 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:32:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution
References: <4813173B1B394E4CAE257AEB72D639CD@davee984e49f02>
	<4509279A858F4D748C064F2572EFADCD@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <3C46EBB885104153A62BB8B70671E673@D3ZCJ891>

How long does the promotion last? Does it work with JAWS?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution


What is a subnet SystemAccess screenReader?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Wright" <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB of Illinois Mailing List" <il-talk at nfbnet.org>;
"Illinois Association of Blind Students List" <iabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution


It's time to spring in to the digital age of nonproprietary notetakers with
an MSI Wind. Currently, HandyTech North America has a number of MSI Wind
Packages that would be perfect for the student or any individual looking for
a small and truly portable nonproprietary noteTaking solution.



About the MSI wind:

The MSI Wind being offered in this promotion comes in black, a 1.6 GHz
single core processor, 160 GB hard drive, 1 GB of memory, wireless network
and Bluetooth
adaptor, 3 USB ports, integrated Real Tech Ethernet and audio adaptors, 6
cell lithium ion battery and is running Windows XP home.

The cost of the MSI Wind itself is: $499.00 and is available for purchase
from handy Tech North America independent from this promotion.

Add a subnet SystemAccess screenReader license for $150 and $50 for
neospeech for a powerful noteTaker  under $1000. Add the USB CD/DVD drive
for another $100 and you have a fully mobile workstation.


For more information please call:  651-636-5184. or send e-mail to:
sales at handytech.us.

Note that this limited promotion is only available from Handy Tech North
America and participating authorized dealers



Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com


_______________________________________________
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From hjones711 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 06:03:59 2009
From: hjones711 at gmail.com (Hannah Jones)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:03:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
In-Reply-To: <D0A4B6108E294624A2FDE0CA0E90A142@D3ZCJ891>
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<ea6d2ed00902141157n669f89dt1128ff6b3145af36@mail.gmail.com>
	<D0A4B6108E294624A2FDE0CA0E90A142@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <b24a5f590902142203l3f72d24dw20d4208e2c4cc2f4@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with you... or... they just grab me out of nowhere... or, when i am
waiting for the bus calling the cops... Still not sure why they did that.

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini <
ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> I forget the exact numbers, but I read in a book once that the word blind
> refers to just a tiny bit of vision loss to totally blind. Blind is not
> like
> the word deaf; deaf usually means no hearing or not enough to comprehend
> speech, but blind refers to the entire range.
> Maybe tell them how they can best assist you. One of my pet peeves (and I
> that people just don't know better) is when someone goes to lead me, and
> they grab me instead of letting me hold onto their arm.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lora and Myrtle" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pannel
>
>
> there are varying degrees of blindness. I am legally blind and people alot
> of the time don't think I am blind because I can see color.
>
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM, Hannah Jones <hjones711 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> > Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> > college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked
> a
> > lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me
> > questions
> > than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind
> > person
> > (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question
> > and
> > answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> > --
> > god bless
> > Hannah
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com
>



-- 
god bless
Hannah

From thisischris89 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 06:54:48 2009
From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:54:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution
In-Reply-To: <3C46EBB885104153A62BB8B70671E673@D3ZCJ891>
References: <4813173B1B394E4CAE257AEB72D639CD@davee984e49f02><4509279A858F4D748C064F2572EFADCD@D3ZCJ891>
	<3C46EBB885104153A62BB8B70671E673@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <5B8B63F3B6FD4706836931194035231E@consumer281f9d>

These are standard computers running windows. You can install any screen
reader of your choosing. The promotion just gives you an opportunity to buy
the system access screenreader at what seems to be a reduced price.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Nicole B. Torcolini
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:32 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution

How long does the promotion last? Does it work with JAWS?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution


What is a subnet SystemAccess screenReader?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Wright" <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB of Illinois Mailing List" <il-talk at nfbnet.org>;
"Illinois Association of Blind Students List" <iabs-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution


It's time to spring in to the digital age of nonproprietary notetakers with
an MSI Wind. Currently, HandyTech North America has a number of MSI Wind
Packages that would be perfect for the student or any individual looking for
a small and truly portable nonproprietary noteTaking solution.



About the MSI wind:

The MSI Wind being offered in this promotion comes in black, a 1.6 GHz
single core processor, 160 GB hard drive, 1 GB of memory, wireless network
and Bluetooth
adaptor, 3 USB ports, integrated Real Tech Ethernet and audio adaptors, 6
cell lithium ion battery and is running Windows XP home.

The cost of the MSI Wind itself is: $499.00 and is available for purchase
from handy Tech North America independent from this promotion.

Add a subnet SystemAccess screenReader license for $150 and $50 for
neospeech for a powerful noteTaker  under $1000. Add the USB CD/DVD drive
for another $100 and you have a fully mobile workstation.


For more information please call:  651-636-5184. or send e-mail to:
sales at handytech.us.

Note that this limited promotion is only available from Handy Tech North
America and participating authorized dealers



Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab
le.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab
le.com 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai
l.com



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 15 07:25:10 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:25:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Displaying Windows Media in Firefox
Message-ID: <000301c98f3e$8a26c230$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good morning everyone,

    I recently installed the latest version of Firefox and like its 
enhancements when Web vism is activated. Whenever I play an audio file a 
Firefox Window appears rather than Windows Media Player being displayed. The 
Windows Media Player is displayed when I play a video file. I want it to 
display if I play audio or video files. Is there something I need to fix in 
Firefox to cause the Windows Media Player to display when audio files are 
played rather than Firefox? Does Firefox have its own player for audio 
content? Help with this will be very much appreciated.

Peter Donahue



"Given a chance to dream it can be done.
The promise of tomorrow is real.
Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
Flying for Me,
John Denver 



From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Sun Feb 15 07:37:45 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 02:37:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
Message-ID: <20090215073745.18266.36971@p2025330.pubip.peer1.net>

Hi there.

The number one thing I would get across to them is that blindness is no 
different than any other aspect of diversity with which the student and 
faculty bodies might be familiar. We blind people have our frustrations 
with the majority (the sighted in this case), we have our civil rights 
movement, and we have the same cares and concerns just like anyone 
else. bringing blindness into the realm of something they can already 
feel familiar with will definitely take the mystery out of things and 
help the sighted relate more on a personal level, especially if the 
audience contains students of other minority groups.

It's been suggested here that you take care to define the difference 
between "blind" and "totally blind." Instead, I would suggest bringing 
it home that the amount of blindness matters less than how one chooses 
to deal with it. I know some totally blind people who function more 
efficiently than many low vision people do and visa-versa. This idea of 
functionality vs visual acuity will definitely emphasize that it need 
not matter how much one can see, and that ability isn't linked with 
visual acuity. If you choose to share your visual condition with the 
audience, that is your choice. Some will find it interesting for sure.

I hope that helps. Cheers and good luck.
Original message:
> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> --
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 09:48:38 2009
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley Alexander)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 03:48:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Displaying Windows Media in Firefox
In-Reply-To: <000301c98f3e$8a26c230$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <000301c98f3e$8a26c230$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <4804d1140902150148g4517f587xb982206d97d56432@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Peter,
Hmmm, i have never seen this problem before. i too use firefox, but
have not heard of such a problem, or even that firefox has its own
audio player.
Apparently, this is something to do with the "mime settings", which
are in the "prefernces" dialog in the control pannel. It's some kind
of plugin that is a quicktime one that comes with firefox when you
installed it, and it's trying to take control of it all. I would go to
the control pannel and see what you can find. i found this information
on
http://forums.dvdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-32595.html
i would go check it out, and see what you can come up with.
Hope this helps,
Ashley


On 2/15/09, Peter Donahue <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Good morning everyone,
>
>     I recently installed the latest version of Firefox and like its
> enhancements when Web vism is activated. Whenever I play an audio file a
> Firefox Window appears rather than Windows Media Player being displayed. The
> Windows Media Player is displayed when I play a video file. I want it to
> display if I play audio or video files. Is there something I need to fix in
> Firefox to cause the Windows Media Player to display when audio files are
> played rather than Firefox? Does Firefox have its own player for audio
> content? Help with this will be very much appreciated.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> "Given a chance to dream it can be done.
> The promise of tomorrow is real.
> Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
> Flying for Me,
> John Denver
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From sarah at growingstrong.org  Sun Feb 15 10:22:58 2009
From: sarah at growingstrong.org (Sarah J. Blake)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:22:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Powerful NoteTaking Solution
References: <4813173B1B394E4CAE257AEB72D639CD@davee984e49f02>
	<4509279A858F4D748C064F2572EFADCD@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <C57FB90BF88645C0B160BDCB215D35DD@TINYLAPTOP>

The MSI Wind is comparable to the Acer Aspire One and other tiny laptops. It 
is also more expensive.


I'm protected by SpamBrave
http://www.spambrave.com/



From cassonw at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 10:44:41 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 02:44:41 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Displaying Windows Media in Firefox
In-Reply-To: <4804d1140902150148g4517f587xb982206d97d56432@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000301c98f3e$8a26c230$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<4804d1140902150148g4517f587xb982206d97d56432@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902150244s6448ae20v1d4ec8e766f9bb62@mail.gmail.com>

My advice would be to go to tools>options>applications there is a list of a
million file types and you can decide there how you would like firefox to
handle them.  not sure if this applies to pre 3.0 releases, but if your
firefox is older then 3 you should update tit for security reasons.
Bill

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 1:48 AM, Ashley Alexander <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hello Peter,
> Hmmm, i have never seen this problem before. i too use firefox, but
> have not heard of such a problem, or even that firefox has its own
> audio player.
> Apparently, this is something to do with the "mime settings", which
> are in the "prefernces" dialog in the control pannel. It's some kind
> of plugin that is a quicktime one that comes with firefox when you
> installed it, and it's trying to take control of it all. I would go to
> the control pannel and see what you can find. i found this information
> on
> http://forums.dvdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-32595.html
> i would go check it out, and see what you can come up with.
> Hope this helps,
> Ashley
>
>
> On 2/15/09, Peter Donahue <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Good morning everyone,
> >
> >     I recently installed the latest version of Firefox and like its
> > enhancements when Web vism is activated. Whenever I play an audio file a
> > Firefox Window appears rather than Windows Media Player being displayed.
> The
> > Windows Media Player is displayed when I play a video file. I want it to
> > display if I play audio or video files. Is there something I need to fix
> in
> > Firefox to cause the Windows Media Player to display when audio files are
> > played rather than Firefox? Does Firefox have its own player for audio
> > content? Help with this will be very much appreciated.
> >
> > Peter Donahue
> >
> >
> >
> > "Given a chance to dream it can be done.
> > The promise of tomorrow is real.
> > Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
> > Flying for Me,
> > John Denver
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 12:54:02 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 07:54:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B26CD8CD34504FBD917F1056D623AA6F@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <004701c98f6c$7d017fe0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

no I get the same thing.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pannel


> Am I the only one who sometimes receives the reply to messages before the
> actual message?
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hannah Jones" <hjones711 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
>
>
> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me 
> questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind 
> person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question 
> and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> -- 
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From ginsenshi at mchsi.com  Sun Feb 15 13:23:11 2009
From: ginsenshi at mchsi.com (Sean Moore)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:23:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1234634402.3393.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.15.1234634402.3393.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <DD734D1677AA4355ADC4F105E52E8956@SeanMooreLPTP>

You can possiblly buy one used from-
link 1 to a used Milestone Voice recorder and mp3 player
http://www.blindbargains.com/boards.php?t=103

link 2 to used Victor Reader Stream
http://www.blindbargains.com/boards.php?t=80

No idea if either item is still up for grabs.

Yours,
Sean Moore
and the wonderful SEGDI Guide Dog Franklin

Contact Information
Home: (404) 300-9908
Cell: (478) 258-4103

Email: linkstarwind at cox.net, ginsenshi at mchsi.com
Website: www.BaltoX1.BraveHost.com

Instant Messaging
AIM: BaltoX1
Yahoo: Ginsenshi2001
MSN: Linkstarwind at cox.net
Skype: Ginsenshi

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 1:00 PM
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 28, Issue 14


> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. just thought that I would try introducing myself to the list
>      (jonathan matte)
>   2. Re: Need contact info for the new Delaware Student Division
>      (Jessica Kostiw)
>   3. Olympus Recorder File Transfers (Peter Donahue)
>   4. Re: just thought that I would try introducing myself to
>      thelist (Antonio Guimaraes)
>   5. Re: just thought that I would try introducing myself to
>      thelist (Rania)
>   6. Re: Looking for ideas (Robert Spangler)
>   7. pannel (Hannah Jones)
>   8. Re: Looking for ideas (gmail)
>   9. PK for sale (Dave Wright)
>  10. looking for an accessible digital recorder (David Dunphy)
>  11. Re: looking for an accessible digital recorder (Maurice Mines)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:08:45 -0500
> From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
> the list
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52 at homexpuser>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi there.
> I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I 
> like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I 
> thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in 
> the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make 
> some friends along the way.
> So here's a little bit about me.
> My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
> I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located 
> roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
> I am totally blind and have been since birth.
> I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this time 
> or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would 
> probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under 
> this list.
> I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which 
> include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the 
> phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around 
> in bookstores and music shops.
> I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for 
> hours.
> I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able 
> to meet someone at some point in my life.
> My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a 
> bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more 
> specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel free 
> to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.
> Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to 
> everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB 
> and I try to be neutral on both fronts.
> I know there has always been some disagreements between both organizations 
> when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to 
> take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved 
> with the political aspects of the organization.
> I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some 
> new friends.
> If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off 
> list.
> My email address is
> jmatte28 at comcast.net
> Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
> My screen name is tvvault82
> I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
> Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
> Sincerely Jonathan.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:20:40 -0600
> From: "Jessica Kostiw" <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Need contact info for the new Delaware Student
> Division
> To: "Virginia Association of Blind Students list" <vabs at nfbnet.org>,
> "Tracy Soforenko" <tracy.soforenko at verizon.net>, "Tanya Stewart"
> <tstewart at olb.org>, "Rob Hobson" <rob_hobs at hotmail.com>, "phil
> templet" <pjtemplet at cox.net>, <PGWardski at aol.com>,
> <kathryn.collins at sbcglobal.net>, "Jenn Huckaby"
> <jkhuckaby1985 at gmail.com>, "James Konechne" <jakon22 at gmail.com>,
> "Hannah Jones" <hjones711 at gmail.com>, "Deja Rolfe"
> <deja.powell at gmail.com>, "David Sexton" <david at rustytelephone.net>,
> "Chris Booher" <chris_booher at hotmail.com>,
> <blackburn.kristen at gmail.com>, "Aimee Kim" <aimeeskim at gmail.com>,
> "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <009601c98e18$8af74530$dd49a962 at Jessica>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Anyone on this list who programs or does sys admin work should know
> that most computers and languages measure time from January 1st, 1970.
> When you get a time in most programs, you are actually getting a very
> long number that is the number of milliseconds from that date.
>
> Well today the epoch timer will reach 1234567890 seconds at 23:31:30
> UTC
>
> Here is a site that is tracking it
> http://coolepochcountdown.com/
>
> In the sprit, here is the xkcd on the subject
> http://xkcd.com/376/
> <img src="
> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bug.png" />
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:48:53 -0600
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Olympus Recorder File Transfers
> To: "NFBnet GUI Talk Mailing List" <gui-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: nfb-web at nfbnet.org, nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindcasting at freelists.org
> Message-ID: <003d01c98e1c$7c08f4c0$210110ac at yourfsyly0jtwn>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
>    I've been contacted by someone wishing to purchass an Olympus Recorder
> for recording an up-coming event. They wish to post the recordings to 
> their
> Web site when the event is over. I have heard that there are accessibility
> issues with the software that comes with this line of recorders that could
> present problems when transferring files from the recorder to a PC for
> further processing and archiving. How can these issues best be delt with?
> Can a direct transfer via My Computer be done with this product rather 
> than
> using the software supplied with it? They want to record a conference in
> April so we have plenty of time to coach them on how to use the device and
> to work out these concerns prior to the event. Thanks for your help.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> "Given a chance to dream it can be done.
> The promise of tomorrow is real.
> Children of Spaceship Earth the future belongs to us all."
> Flying for Me,
> John Denver
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:54:49 -0500
> From: "Antonio Guimaraes" <aguimaraes at nbp.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself
> to thelist
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <01C91962EC8D4CA588792871686EC820 at nbp2.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello John,
>
> I saw this message on the other NABS list back in December, and it's good 
> to
> hear from you again.
>
> this is a pretty high traffic list, so you're bound to find something
> interesting, helpful, and informative. Anything student-related goes, so
> don't be surprised if some of it does not relate to a none-student.
>
> If you haven't yet seen, mozy your way onto our new web site and let us 
> know
> what you think.
>
> the address is
>
> www.nabslink.org
>
> Regards,
>
> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>
> Customer Service Representative
> National Braille Press
> 1800 548-read, ext 40.
> aguimaraes at nbp.org
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:08 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
> thelist
>
>
>> Hi there.
>> I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I
>> like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I
>> thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in
>> the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make
>> some friends along the way.
>> So here's a little bit about me.
>> My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
>> I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located
>> roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
>> I am totally blind and have been since birth.
>> I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this 
>> time
>> or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would
>> probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under
>> this list.
>> I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which
>> include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the
>> phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around
>> in bookstores and music shops.
>> I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for
>> hours.
>> I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able
>> to meet someone at some point in my life.
>> My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a
>> bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more
>> specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel 
>> free
>> to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.
>> Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to
>> everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB
>> and I try to be neutral on both fronts.
>> I know there has always been some disagreements between both 
>> organizations
>> when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to
>> take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved
>> with the political aspects of the organization.
>> I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some
>> new friends.
>> If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off
>> list.
>> My email address is
>> jmatte28 at comcast.net
>> Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
>> My screen name is tvvault82
>> I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
>> Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
>> Sincerely Jonathan.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:02:24 -0500
> From: "Rania" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself
> to thelist
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <006101c98e1e$6035a020$2d01a8c0 at DHQ5QJF1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi My name is Rania, Welcome to the list. I am looking for another school 
> to
> go to for massage therapy since I didn't finish the program ware I was
> attending. This list has been vary helpful. Feel free to ask questions.
> Rania,
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:08 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing myself to
> thelist
>
>
>> Hi there.
>> I don't normally do the whole list serves thing, but every now and then I
>> like to try new things and since I enjoy getting to know new people I
>> thought that it might be interesting to try joining a list like this in
>> the hopes that I might be able to get to know some new people and make
>> some friends along the way.
>> So here's a little bit about me.
>> My name is Jonathan though most of my friends typically call me Jon.
>> I'm 26 and from the state of Massachusetts a city called Brockton located
>> roughly 45 minutes south of Boston.
>> I am totally blind and have been since birth.
>> I should state right up front that I'm not actually a student at this 
>> time
>> or enrolled in a college or university, but I figured that I would
>> probably have the most luck with meeting people my age by posting under
>> this list.
>> I like to think that I have a wide variety of interests some of which
>> include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online, on the
>> phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around
>> in bookstores and music shops.
>> I could shop around a place such as bBarnes And Noble or Borders for
>> hours.
>> I'm single and have no children though like many people I hope to be able
>> to meet someone at some point in my life.
>> My 2 biggest passions in life are great books and music though I can be a
>> bit ecclectic on both fronts so if you would like to know more
>> specifically about what sorts of books or music I'm in to please feel 
>> free
>> to ask and I'll be happy to elaborate.
>> Before closing this intro up I would just like to make it clear to
>> everyone on this list that I'm not actually a member of either NFB or ACB
>> and I try to be neutral on both fronts.
>> I know there has always been some disagreements between both 
>> organizations
>> when it comes to dealing with the blind and sighted world but I try to
>> take a bit out of both organization without specifically getting involved
>> with the political aspects of the organization.
>> I'm mainly here to get to know different people and to perhaps make some
>> new friends.
>> If anybody would like to contact me privately I ask that you do this off
>> list.
>> My email address is
>> jmatte28 at comcast.net
>> Or if you like to instant message feel free to send me an IM on aim.
>> My screen name is tvvault82
>> I'm sorry but I do not have skype or MSN.
>> Thanks for reading this and hope to hear from some new people soon.
>> Sincerely Jonathan.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:57:49 -0500
> From: Robert Spangler <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <4995DECD.1080408 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Hey, I think you're the girl I met at the mixer.  Nice to meet you!  I
> myself am looking for any advice that I can get to work on OABS.
>
>
> Ashley Alexander wrote:
>> hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
>> list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
>> seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
>> but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
>> you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
>> the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
>> money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
>> So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
>> ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
>> could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
>> something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
>> money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
>> at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
>> also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
>> the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
>> have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
>> We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
>> on the nabs list!
>> Thanks In Advance,
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey NABS
>>>
>>> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
>>> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be 
>>> holding
>>> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to 
>>> school
>>> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
>>> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, 
>>> how
>>> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can 
>>> let
>>> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
>>> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
>>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com
>>
>
> -- 
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senate - Recording Secretary
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:33:08 -0600
> From: Hannah Jones <hjones711 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID:
> <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me 
> questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind 
> person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question 
> and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> -- 
> god bless
> Hannah
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 20:02:59 -0700
> From: "gmail" <nijat1989 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <C17426F58E1344409D3F8EB500A3613F at Nijatash>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Ashley,
>   Welcome to the NABS list. We will be glad to give you advice any time 
> you
> need it.
>   Both of those are good fundraiser ideas. Make sure that you are not the
> only one doing the selling. Get other people from your state student
> division to help you out. Also, I have found that it is very hard to do
> fundraising at NFB events since everybody else is doing the same thing. 
> You
> have to make sure that whatever you are selling is unique, or otherwise 
> you
> will not be able to sell it. As you know, many divisions of the NFB sell
> candy, food, hats, and tee-shirts at convention, therefore, it is very 
> hard
> to raise lot of money at national events. However, concentrate on local
> events. Do not just do fundraisers at NFB events. Make sure that you go 
> out
> into the community in your city, school, and community to do fundraising. 
> Go
> to local parades, festivals, and anywhere else where you can sell food or
> anything else. Some chapters have done car washes to raise money. Some
> chapters have gone to local book stores to wrap books or presents during
> holidays. Some chapters go to parades and sell ears of corn and other
> delicious stuff. Again, do not limit yourselves to the blind community.
>   I hope these ideas help.
>   Nijat
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Alexander" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Looking for ideas
>
>
> hey guys this is Ashley from Texas. I just subscribed to the mailing
> list a few days ago, by recommendation of someone at Washington
> seminar. Well anyway, just thought I'd drop in and introduce myself,
> but also wanted to add some input here to Juan's message. As some of
> you may remember from Washington seminar, I've been selling candy for
> the past few weeks, and that's been going ok, but I'm running out of
> money, and you know how us students are poor! :)
> So anyway, just wanted to let people know that I too am looking for
> ideas on how best to go about fundraising. My next thought was that I
> could possibly do some baking like I did last year, making cookies or
> something to that effect, and maybe that would give me some good
> money. I'm proud to say that with the candy sells, i was able to make
> at least 50 dollars, so I'm very pleased at how those went, but I'm
> also looking forward to new ideas, as it is, the more money we make,
> the more successful we will be, and the more opportunities we will
> have. So again, any ideas and input would be greatly appreciated!
> We here in Texas are looking forward to hearing the great ideas here
> on the nabs list!
> Thanks In Advance,
> Ashley
>
>
> On 2/12/09, Juan Carlos Munoz <blinddrummer1989 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hey NABS
>>
>> This is Juan Munoz from Texas, and I'm writing in because I need some
>> fundraising ideas. The Texas Association of Blind Students will be 
>> holding
>> it's annual spring conference next month in Austin, and if you go to
>> school
>> in Texas, I encourage you to go. I basically was wondering if any of you
>> would be willing to share your ideas for raising any amount of money, how
>> successful the project was, etc. You can e-mail me offline or you can let
>> everyone else in on your secret. I really appreciate your help, and look
>> forward to implementing some of these ideas for TABS.
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Windows Live?: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nijat1989%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 00:09:31 -0600
> From: "Dave Wright" <gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [nabs-l] PK for sale
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <6009DD5CFECA4703BF4303A7E9BD5C9D at davee984e49f02>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David" <shotgun at byrdsoft.com>
> To: <gps-talkusers at freelists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:57 AM
> Subject: [gps-talkusers] PK for sale
>
>
>>I have a PK equipped with Sendero's GPS 5.3 and one SMA update.  It also
>>has or will soon have version 8.0 of KeySoft when it is available.  I will
>>include all cables and the newest case offered by Executive Cases for the
>>PK.  It is in excellent condition, I'd like $1600 for it.
>>
>> Contact me off list at shotgun at byrdsoft.com if you are interested.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> "War remains the decisive human failure."
>> John Kenneth Galbraith
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 08:23:01 -0600
> From: "David Dunphy" <djdrocks4ever at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <691DEE2908B04CDFB422ADFF8CFD3C0B at homeuser>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Hello To All!
> I am in the market for an accessible digital recorder that has stereo 
> sound
> preferbily. I know the olympus models have some good recorders, but if 
> there
> are better ones out there, I'd be interested. Can't afford the victor 
> stream
> now or would get that instead. But I am looking for a digital recorder 
> that
> has built in stereo capability and maybe has voice guidance through the
> various menus. Would also be interested to know if what ever models you
> recommend could be purchased at radio shack, target, bestbuy, etc. I need 
> to
> get one soon, as I will need it for my classes.
> Hope someone can help.
>>From David
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 10:02:27 -0700
> From: Maurice Mines <minesm at me.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] looking for an accessible digital recorder
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Message-ID: <54A87327-CD08-4289-B15C-05416EC8391E at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I'm curios, what platform?
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2009, at 7:23 AM, David Dunphy wrote:
>
>> Hello To All!
>> I am in the market for an accessible digital recorder that has
>> stereo sound preferbily. I know the olympus models have some good
>> recorders, but if there are better ones out there, I'd be
>> interested. Can't afford the victor stream now or would get that
>> instead. But I am looking for a digital recorder that has built in
>> stereo capability and maybe has voice guidance through the various
>> menus. Would also be interested to know if what ever models you
>> recommend could be purchased at radio shack, target, bestbuy, etc. I
>> need to get one soon, as I will need it for my classes.
>> Hope someone can help.
>>> From David
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm
>> %40me.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 28, Issue 14
> ************************************** 



From jess28 at samobile.net  Sun Feb 15 14:06:14 2009
From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica Trask)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:06:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Displaying Windows Media in Firefox
Message-ID: <20090215140614.21243.18156@p2025330.pubip.peer1.net>

Peter,
There is a plug in that you need to get so Firefox can play windows 
Media Player.

-- 
Jessica Trask
www. samobile.net/users/jess28
Facebook Jessica Trask

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 16:10:26 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:10:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] any fans of oldies/ easy listening music out their
Message-ID: <868C5DA2CC99428D849376D6147EE197@homexpuser>

Okay so it's sunday and what can I say I'm feeling absolutely bored out of my tree as the expression goes so I'm probably going to head down cellar and do some cleaning which I tend to procrastinate about doing.
I think we've all done that at some point in our lifetime.
Anyways I posted this because yesterday I ent down in to my basement to go through some of my record albums and couldn't believe that I found aa llawrence welk LP and a Liberace album.
Have you ever just neglected to clean and then when your going through stuf to toss out your reaction is like wait a sec! I had this?
Well I was really surprised so I put the albums on my turn table and they sounded great so thought I would see just for fun and to brantch off from the usual list topics if anyone out their has a liking for that sort of music.
Feel free to email me off list if you want to chat about music as I really wouldn't want to clog up the trafic lanes so to speak with this sort of conversation.
As I said it was just a boring day over here so thought it might be fun to post something slightly random just to see what sorts of responses I might get.
Have a good rest of your weekend.

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 15 16:57:22 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:57:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing
	myselftothelist
References: <9472CDA1B5B24905BA3A5B60E6601C52@homexpuser><003801c98f00$63f08990$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<9A01C1C3221E42BEBB46EDCA18197FBB@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <FEDD5F05193E403B9808A9BF64575EA8@Ashley>

If you contact the MA president of nfb you can find out all chapters.  There 
may be a MA website as well listing that info.  Virginia has one and we tell 
events, chapter info and newsletter on it.

Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] just thought that I would try introducing 
myselftothelist


> Hi there.
> I wasn't aware that Brockton has a chapter there doesn't seem to be a 
> massachusetts list serve around here
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3853 (20090214) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 15 17:00:10 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:00:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B26CD8CD34504FBD917F1056D623AA6F@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <7C1B9B3F380E4B2BB4D5BDCF5E1A1E7C@Ashley>

Nicole, no you are not.  I also recieve replies to the message before the 
beginning message.  Its frustrating because i don't know what  they're 
talking avout then.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pannel


> Am I the only one who sometimes receives the reply to messages before the
> actual message?
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hannah Jones" <hjones711 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
>
>
> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me 
> questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind 
> person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question 
> and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> -- 
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3853 (20090214) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 15 18:27:35 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:27:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] just posting again to the list
References: <BDECBD7A577E43989B9167632E84DB37@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <67A7E869A9764A7E832A3C879B84C2BB@Ashley>

Hi Jon,

Welcome.  You joined the other nabs a few months ago and I saw you there. 
People are busy but they will get around to introducing themselves.  There 
seem to be many young adults here and we talk about lots of school stuff.  I 
will be a graduate from Marymount soon.

Enjoy.
Ashley
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:08 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] just posting again to the list


> hi there again folks.
> I'm not sure if some of you didn't happen to read the post i placed 
> yesterday but I thought I would just send out a brief re cap again because 
> I was disappointed by the lack of responses I got to my post.
> My name is Jonathan but most of my friends call me Jon.
> I'm a new member from Massachusetts and come from Brockton a city located 
> about 45 minutes south of Boston.
> I consider myself to be pretty laid back but I do have a wide range of 
> interests some of which include reading, listening to all types of music, 
> talking online, on the phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the 
> movies, and browsing around in gbookstores and music shops to name only a 
> few.
> I'm not currently in college myself at this time and am not exactly sure 
> what my future plans are with regard to this sort of thing but I figured I 
> would most likely be able to meet people roughly my own age under this 
> list serve.
> I'm single and don't have kids though who isn't looking to find that 
> special someone.
> I received a few responses, but I'm also aware that there are many people 
> who read the lists that don't generally reply but I'm really interested in 
> getting to know new people.
> So if you feel up to messaging me there are a few ways to reach me.
> You can email me.
> My email address is
> jmatte28 at comcast.net
> or you can IM me on aim.
> My screen name is tvvault82
> Unfortunately I do not have or use MSN Messenger or Skype but I'm very 
> good about getting back to people so if you do email me you will hear back 
> from me fairly quickly.
> Hope everyone is having a good weekend and maybe I'll end up hearing from 
> some more folks.
>
> Take care.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3853 (20090214) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sun Feb 15 19:29:48 2009
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 14:29:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B26CD8CD34504FBD917F1056D623AA6F@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <013501c98fa3$c45c3bf0$0501a8c0@Serene>

No, you're not.  I do a lot.  I'm guessing it's just something about how 
messages get sent to the list, something that's beyond my technology 
knowledge.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pannel


> Am I the only one who sometimes receives the reply to messages before the
> actual message?
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hannah Jones" <hjones711 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
>
>
> Hi all
> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me 
> questions
> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind 
> person
> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question 
> and
> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
> -- 
> god bless
> Hannah
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 19:42:39 2009
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:42:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is Back To Party Hard On Tonight's Djd
	Invasion
Message-ID: <BEEC3904FEF8484DA8B20D321B889D16@homeuser>

Hello To All!
The Djd Invasion returns to ACB Radio Interactive this evening from 6 to 9 PM eastern (that's 5 to 8 PM central time) with a great program featuring:
Songs from the pop, rock and country genres of music
Find out what happens when Nirvana, ACDC, Def Leppard, Guns N Roses, and Metallica get together
And for the first time in awhile, I'll be delivering the idiot of the week award
All this plus your requests by email/msn messenger at the address
request at acbradio.org
by aol instant messenger at the address
djdrocks
or when I'm not playing a song, feel free to pick up the phone and give the show a call at
1-516-874-5071
or just skype me at
thedjdinvasion
This should be an upbeat and fun show tonight, so to listen at any time between 6 and 9 PM eastern, (5 and 8 PM central) save this email, and at the above mentioned time, go to
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html
to be connected to the program live!
I hope to see you all there!
Best regards,
David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Sun Feb 15 20:34:00 2009
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:34:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is Back To Party Hard On Tonight's
 Djd Invasion
In-Reply-To: <BEEC3904FEF8484DA8B20D321B889D16@homeuser>
Message-ID: <644001193.663791234730040613.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello david,

thanks as always for posting this announcement about the show for tonight to the lists and all! i will be of course listening and giving my 2 cents worth and all during the show! this sounds like this will be the bomb of all shows tonight and, i cannot wait to hear it.

thanks again and i will talk to you soon my dear...


hugs always,
from amy

----- Original Message -----

From: David Dunphy 

To: winamp4theblind at freelists.org, announce at acbradio.org, friends at acbradio.org, nabs at acb.org, National Association of Blind Students mailing list 

Sent: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:42:39 +0000 (UTC)

Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is Back To Party Hard On Tonight's Djd Invasion



Hello To All!

The Djd Invasion returns to ACB Radio Interactive this evening from 6 to 9 PM eastern (that's 5 to 8 PM central time) with a great program featuring:

Songs from the pop, rock and country genres of music

Find out what happens when Nirvana, ACDC, Def Leppard, Guns N Roses, and Metallica get together

And for the first time in awhile, I'll be delivering the idiot of the week award

All this plus your requests by email/msn messenger at the address

request at acbradio.org

by aol instant messenger at the address

djdrocks

or when I'm not playing a song, feel free to pick up the phone and give the show a call at

1-516-874-5071

or just skype me at

thedjdinvasion

This should be an upbeat and fun show tonight, so to listen at any time between 6 and 9 PM eastern, (5 and 8 PM central) save this email, and at the above mentioned time, go to

http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html

to be connected to the program live!

I hope to see you all there!

Best regards,

David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion

http://www.thedjdinvasion.com

_______________________________________________

nabs-l mailing list

nabs-l at nfbnet.org

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org

To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 21:28:53 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:28:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] the eagerness to get involved and be active
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DS6970D3FB3B84C63240BC5BAB60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <DB435C0223E24292970261191872B8FD@MonkeyPaw>

Priscilla,

I think it wonderful that you want to travel abroad to help others.  I
myself have not done such a service, a pity really given my ultimate career
objective, but I am fortunate to be in touch with at least three individuals
who have done so.  E-mail me off list.  I'll put you in touch with them.

In the way of general advice I would suggest that before you can convince
others of your abilities, you need to be able to articulate those abilities
in a way that is going to convince yourself.  If you go into this project
feeling confident and fully prepared to overcome whatever challenge you may
encounter, you will do a phenomenal job of convincing others.  I would never
tell you that it is going to be easy.  Requesting accommodations is always
an exercise in patience, but I do believe the issue of equal inclusion is as
small and as casual an issue as the person is willing to make it.

I'm very proud of you for finding opportunities to participate in community
service.  In college I went on two mission trips with one of my university's
campus ministries.  Both summers I worked in Iowa our students prepared and
served food at a local homeless chapter in Des Moines, and my year following
college I was an AmeriCorps volunteer.  Each experience was gratifying in
ways I would need a separate post to express to you.  I can only imagine
that the experience you will gain from visiting another country will be
extraordinary.  Keep us posted, and if you run into issues with the
organization running the program, you come back here and let us know.  We'll
help you straighten them out.

Best,

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of priscilla
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:13 AM
To: nabs-l
Subject: [nabs-l] the eagerness to get involved and be active

hi to all liters,
I am trying to get involved in this project that takes place for 8 days in
another country only because I went to this human rights conference
yesterday After I went to the human rights conference at keen University, I
receive an email about a great opportunity to participate in a tour at the
Dominican republic where you become active in community service projects
throughout the stay in that particular country by helping the impoverished
population with different organizations.
in other words, it is like a form of being involved as a volunteer at the
peace corpse.
I know that I need some accommodations especially when it comes to traveling
alone for the first time to an unfamiliar setting.
But, I don't know how to ask or answer this particular question only because
I am iffy due to the different interpretations that society has towards us.
I think that we are equal just like all of the other society members
throughout the world, and it is very sad to see so much discrimination and
prejudice as well as the huge amount of inequality we receive when it comes
to accessing certain things even if we strive to be independent.
Although we do our best to be as independent as possible, we all face many
challenges when we want to try to participate in certain activities such as
going to museums of art as an example.
So, I am only saying this because I need some tips on how to deal with this
being that I never traveled abroad before and I would really like to do this
since I still have the opportunity to learn a lot because as I get older, it
will be more difficult when I start working.

Thank you very much.


Priscilla
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com



From corbbo at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 22:15:16 2009
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:15:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Test Again 4-15
In-Reply-To: <7949e5e20902142005s2e041398v301a15a9d6a847e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>
	<7949e5e20902142005s2e041398v301a15a9d6a847e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD9499B6-19E2-4817-9560-3CC32743271D@gmail.com>

Dave, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that you will ever  
receive a copy of your own message to the list.

Corbb

On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:05 PM, Linda Stover wrote:

Nicole,

This one came through.
Courtney

On 2/14/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> My test from 2-42 did not go through.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com



From cassonw at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 01:07:57 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 17:07:57 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Test Again 4-15
In-Reply-To: <FD9499B6-19E2-4817-9560-3CC32743271D@gmail.com>
References: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>
	<7949e5e20902142005s2e041398v301a15a9d6a847e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD9499B6-19E2-4817-9560-3CC32743271D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902151707s7fd23a5g9b33ed076bb8c382@mail.gmail.com>

whether you get your own messages can be set in the preferences for the list
in your account on nfbnet.org

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Corbb O'Connor <corbbo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dave, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that you will ever
> receive a copy of your own message to the list.
>
> Corbb
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:05 PM, Linda Stover wrote:
>
> Nicole,
>
> This one came through.
> Courtney
>
> On 2/14/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>
>> My test from 2-42 did not go through.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From hjones711 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 01:14:05 2009
From: hjones711 at gmail.com (Hannah Jones)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:14:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
In-Reply-To: <013501c98fa3$c45c3bf0$0501a8c0@Serene>
References: <b24a5f590902131633y652b55c8la08278045b94139e@mail.gmail.com>
	<B26CD8CD34504FBD917F1056D623AA6F@D3ZCJ891>
	<013501c98fa3$c45c3bf0$0501a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <b24a5f590902151714q451ea2eaodd989245c135a6b7@mail.gmail.com>

Thank yall very much for the ideas and feedback!

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:

> No, you're not.  I do a lot.  I'm guessing it's just something about how
> messages get sent to the list, something that's beyond my technology
> knowledge.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <
> ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] pannel
>
>
>  Am I the only one who sometimes receives the reply to messages before the
>> actual message?
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hannah Jones" <hjones711 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 4:33 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] pannel
>>
>>
>> Hi all
>> Long time no email from me, sorry about that. I talked to my mentor at
>> college today, and being that this was the second time we met, we talked a
>> lot about blindness, I told her that i would prefer people ask me
>> questions
>> than just stare... So we decided to do a pannel... to have one blind
>> person
>> (me), a deaf person, and a person in a wheelchair, besides the question
>> and
>> answer part any ideas of what i should say?
>> --
>> god bless
>> Hannah
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hjones711%40gmail.com
>



-- 
god bless
Hannah

From catherine.1966 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 16 02:47:12 2009
From: catherine.1966 at yahoo.com (Catherine Newman)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 18:47:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <129387.51515.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

catherine.1966 at yahoo.com


      

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 16 04:11:25 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:11:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
References: <129387.51515.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <F3588FCA2CEC464E8D0AFA1A0F8B8BA8@Ashley>

Catherine,
You are already subscribed.  I think you're new so how about telling us 
where you go to school?  I go to Marymount university.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Catherine Newman" <catherine.1966 at yahoo.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)


> catherine.1966 at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature database 3855 (20090216) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> 



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Feb 16 18:43:22 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:43:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Talking Glucose Meters
Message-ID: <auto-000088845617@mailfront2.g2host.com>

I have been asked to circulate the following:
Dave


Ladies and Gentlemen:

My name is Bernadette M. Jacobs.  I am a member of the National 
Federation of the Blind, (NFB), and have been for many, many 
years.  The NFB believes that
blind people have a right to use accessible glucose monitoring 
meters.   If you or someone you know has been denied the right to an 
accessible meter, the
NFB should be notified.

I am currently working as a "Consultant" with Diagnostic Devices, 
INC., (DDI), makers of the "New Prodigy Voice," the very newest of 
the Talking Glucose
Monitoring Systems for the Blind/Visually Impaired diabetic.

As everyone here that we are addressing is well aware, independent 
monitoring of one's blood sugars is vital and of utmost importance in 
our diabetes management!!!
"A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH!!!"

We of the NFB are well aware that there are many, many blind/visually 
impaired diabetic patients who not only do not have meters they can 
independently
use, but they are unable to receive such a meter because many 
insurance companies, brokers, and managed care facilities do not have 
these meters either
on their formularies, or simply do not consider us "In Network."

DDI, and NFB are currently working together with insurance companies 
and other managed care facilities in an effort to make things happen 
so that the "New
Prodigy Voice" is available to anyone and everyone who needs a 
talking meter which he/she can use completely independently  After 
all, Independence is
what we're all about!!

For those of you who need a talking glucose monitoring system and 
need more options available to you, I would cordially, as well as 
personally invite anyone
to contact me or Charlie Brown off list at:

You may contact Charlie Brown at
cbrown at actionfund.org
  or by calling  him at 410 659 9314, ext. 2206.  You may reach me as follows:

Bernadette M. Jacobs

1501 Langford Road

Gwynn Oak, MD 21207-4958

Home Phone: 410-455-5311.

Email:
bandbjacobs at verizon.net

For anyone who doesn't have computer access, I am a Grade Two Braille 
reader.  Also for those with Limited Long Distance, you can call me 
and I'll simply
offer to call you back to help you.

Cordially,

Bernadette M. Jacobs  



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Feb 16 19:00:44 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:00:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Test Again 4-15
In-Reply-To: <FD9499B6-19E2-4817-9560-3CC32743271D@gmail.com>
References: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>
	<7949e5e20902142005s2e041398v301a15a9d6a847e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD9499B6-19E2-4817-9560-3CC32743271D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000086110013@mailfront1.g2host.com>

It depends on your ISP, and your list settings.  I believe that gmail 
blocks these messages, don't know if you can change that.  Most ISP's 
don't though, so most people do get copies of their own posts.

Dave

At 04:15 PM 2/15/2009, you wrote:
>Dave, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe that you will ever
>receive a copy of your own message to the list.
>
>Corbb
>
>On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:05 PM, Linda Stover wrote:
>
>Nicole,
>
>This one came through.
>Courtney
>
>On 2/14/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>My test from 2-42 did not go through.
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>
>Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1931 - Release Date: 
>2/2/2009 7:21 PM



From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 21:51:24 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:51:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Inquiring About Student Divisions
Message-ID: <4999DFDC.5060008@gmail.com>

Hey all,

I met a gentleman on the plane back from Washington Seminar who works 
for GM.  He is doing some work at Virginia Tech involving vehicles and 
would appreciate some input from a blind person regarding installing 
sound in hybrid cars.  If there is a student division in the area or 
anyone near there who would be interested, please let me know.

Also - Is there a student division in the state of Kentucky?  I was 
asked by someone else.

Thanks,
Robby
-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - Recording Secretary


From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 21:59:48 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:59:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
Message-ID: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there,

I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on here?
Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of blind
students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
this?

From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Mon Feb 16 22:08:51 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:08:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAFED6A1BB4A4E708603154AD9B15458@homexpuser>

Hi there I'm not from florida I'm a mass native myself but I haven't heard 
from anyone from around here either so your not the only one that is 
experiencing this sort of situation 



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 22:16:59 2009
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:16:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4383d01d0902161416x2797878ge2fd3a9214b371b8@mail.gmail.com>

No worries.  Beth here. My name is Beth Taurasi for those of you who
don't know me.  I live in Tally during the year, in Titusville during
the other times of the year when school is not in session.  I go to
Florida State University, and I love it here.  The thing is I'm trying
to teach myself not to be such a procrastinator. lol  Anyway,
Tallahassee has an NFB chapter and a FCB chapter.  I am aware that
FABS is inactive.  I don't know of too many students in lorida who
know what NFB is all about.
Beth

On 2/16/09, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
> anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on here?
> Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
> division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
> our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of blind
> students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
> even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
> our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
> how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
> this?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>


From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 22:22:27 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:22:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0902161416x2797878ge2fd3a9214b371b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
	<4383d01d0902161416x2797878ge2fd3a9214b371b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63af025c0902161422t7c3511d9w949545364bb21f99@mail.gmail.com>

Beth,

Hey, that's where I'm planning to go starting in the fall. I know a hand
full of blind students in Tally, but not many and I didn't know if there
were too many others up there at FSU besides them. Glad to hear there are.

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> No worries.  Beth here. My name is Beth Taurasi for those of you who
> don't know me.  I live in Tally during the year, in Titusville during
> the other times of the year when school is not in session.  I go to
> Florida State University, and I love it here.  The thing is I'm trying
> to teach myself not to be such a procrastinator. lol  Anyway,
> Tallahassee has an NFB chapter and a FCB chapter.  I am aware that
> FABS is inactive.  I don't know of too many students in lorida who
> know what NFB is all about.
> Beth
>
> On 2/16/09, Jamie Principato <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
> > anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on
> here?
> > Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
> > division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
> > our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of
> blind
> > students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
> > even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think
> that
> > our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas
> of
> > how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians
> reading
> > this?
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb 16 22:30:39 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:30:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAFED6A1BB4A4E708603154AD9B15458@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <003d01c99086$334d6f60$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Jonathan and listers,

You should have received a private email from me several days ago. Please 
let me know off-list if you got it or not.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Florida Students


Hi there I'm not from florida I'm a mass native myself but I haven't heard
from anyone from around here either so your not the only one that is
experiencing this sort of situation


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net 



From blind.subscriber at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 22:45:34 2009
From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:45:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAMJOUvR4hPFKgJ+ufuTaPgIBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Hey Jamie,

Give me a call when you get this or a few minutes to talk. I am running into
difficulty with touching base with your President as well.

Name: Jason Mandarino
Mobile: (706) 399-6993
Appropriate email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net

Thanks,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jamie Principato
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students

Hi there,

I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on here?
Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of blind
students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
this?
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
mail.com



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 23:20:44 2009
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:20:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <003d01c99086$334d6f60$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
	<AAFED6A1BB4A4E708603154AD9B15458@homexpuser>
	<003d01c99086$334d6f60$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <4383d01d0902161520y7f995f8aka8c5fa00c2068531@mail.gmail.com>

Jamie,
Hey, cool.  We should meet up when you go to FSU this fall.  If you
want, you can Facebook me or e-mail me privately and I can tell you
more about the blind in Tallahassee.
Beth

On 2/16/09, Peter Donahue <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello Jonathan and listers,
>
> You should have received a private email from me several days ago. Please
> let me know off-list if you got it or not.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Florida Students
>
>
> Hi there I'm not from florida I'm a mass native myself but I haven't heard
> from anyone from around here either so your not the only one that is
> experiencing this sort of situation
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>


From iamantonio at cox.net  Mon Feb 16 23:32:56 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:32:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
Message-ID: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello all,

I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some thought in about reading and literacy.

First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?

I have as many questions as I think I have the answers. 

First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.

By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text to speech. 

I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy. 

I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing. 

Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.

I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small fraction of the material.

A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving on to something else.

So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time to read about religion, and so fourth.

I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy skills.

Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?

What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Feb 16 23:33:31 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:33:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for
	blind people
Message-ID: <8AA63FD1264E42C4BD0DE55C25EA09A0@D3ZCJ891>

Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for blind people

Thursday, June 5, 2008
Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for blind people 


In 2007 the National Federation of the Blind reported that hybrid cars, because they make little noise at slower speeds, posed a hazard to blind pedestrians


"I'm used to being able to get sound cues from my environment and negotiate accordingly. I hadn't imagined there was anything I really wouldn't be able to hear," said Deborah Kent Stein, chairwoman of the National Federation of the Blind's Committee on Automotive and Pedestrian Safety. "We did a test, and I discovered, to my great dismay, that I couldn't hear it."


Now two Stanford University graduate students have solved that problem by creating a soft, high-pitch hum that can be heard when the silent electric motor of the hybrid is engaged.


Everett Meyer, co-founder of Enhanced Vehicle Acoustics, who will graduate next week with an M.D./Ph.D. degree in immunology, and fellow founder Bryan Bai, who also will graduate next week with a Ph.D. in electrical engineering, say that adding the sound is a public safety issue, especially for blind people who use their hearing to maneuver.


The Palo Alto Daily News says the California blind community already supports their invention.


"The specter is that any time you cross a street, you don't know if it's safe to cross. ... That's a fundamental change that's happened only in the past few years,'' said Brian Bashin, a member of the California National Federation of the Blind's Quiet Cars Committee. "In the previous 100 years, cars have always made enough noise.''


The patent-pending system designed by Meyer and Bai still will be quieter than most gasoline-engine cars. 


"At less than 50 decibels, the sound is practically inaudible inside the car. But the system externally emits a soft engine noise from four speakers attached to the vehicle's front and rear," the Daily News reports. 


The sound system plugs into the hybrid's computer system and takes less energy than a car radio.
Posted by BA Haller at 7:42 AM  
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  d.. Assistive Technology News 
  e.. BBC's Ouch! 
  f.. Center for an Accessible Society 
  g.. Disability Blogroll 
  h.. Disability Culture Watch 
  i.. Disability Films 
  j.. Disability Media 
  k.. Disability Rights Promotion International Media Monitoring 
  l.. Disaboom 
  m.. disTHIS! Film Series 
  n.. DREDF Media and Disability Initiative 
  o.. Endeavor Freedom TV 
  p.. Funky Flamingo TV 
  q.. Inclusion Daily Express 
  r.. Media&Disability.net 
  s.. National Arts and Disability Center 
  t.. National Center on Disability and Journalism 
  u.. New Mobility magazine 
  v.. Patricia Bauer blog 
  w.. Planet of the Blind 
  x.. Profoundly Yours 
  y.. Ragged Edge Online Archive 
  z.. Rolling Rains Report 
 
Blog Archive
  a.. ▼ 2009 (444) 
    a.. ▼ February (163) 
      a.. New book details how interaction with horses helpe... 
      b.. Navigating NY City while going blind and deaf 
      c.. Upcoming disability-themed film inspires Bob Dylan... 
      d.. Teacher declared not guilty of abuse charges in Fl... 
      e.. Mom's dedication helps twins with autism progress 
      f.. Ohio governor wants to cut insurance premiums for ... 
      g.. Using sensors to help elderly people stay safe in ... 
      h.. Amazing Race's deaf contestant says hearing impair... 
      i.. Neighbors dispute that 21 developmentally disabled... 
      j.. President Obama wants to hear from disabled people... 
      k.. Mixed reactions from parents on court ruling of no... 
      l.. Disabled people in upstate NY to lose transportati... 
      m.. Sculptor channels struggles with dyslexia into wor... 
      n.. Support programs make college possible for student... 
      o.. Federal Appeals Court ruling confirms ADA covers d... 
      p.. Mother says teacher's aide sent her son with Asper... 
      q.. Deaf-blind woman escapes abductor 
      r.. Florida boy, 10, with autism arrested 
      s.. Mental health concerns among young adults, childre... 
      t.. NY Gov. Paterson tells town meeting "SNL" parody o... 
      u.. Florida trial trying to determine if teacher hitti... 
      v.. Health care groups soften ad campaign against N.Y.... 
      w.. California's cuts to SSI could devastate people wi... 
      x.. Disabled children in Bulgaria live in prison-like ... 
      y.. At Winter Special Olympics, VP Biden says Adminstr... 
      z.. New book recounts man's life with leprosy 
      aa.. Women more likely to be disabled by strokes 
      ab.. Blindness group lobbies Amazon Kindle 2 to keep re... 
      ac.. No link between vaccines, autism, special federal ... 
      ad.. Invisible Kansans create Web presence to tell thei... 
      ae.. Wrestler in New Zealand wants to be first blind co... 
      af.. The economic crisis and disabled Latin Americans 
      ag.. Canadian man with Down syndrome finally released a... 
      ah.. Scottish furniture factory for disabled workers bu... 
      ai.. A look at how 21 developmentally disabled men remo... 
      aj.. Students with dyslexia lose appeal for accommodati... 
      ak.. Parents sue Kaiser for coverage of their children ... 
      al.. The Roloffs reflect on life as LP reality stars 
      am.. First awards at Winter Special Olympics go to snow... 
      an.. Rapping about web access 
      ao.. Blind singer Scott MacIntyre makes it into top 36 ... 
      ap.. Woman at center of right-to-die case in Italy dies... 
      aq.. California worries about costs of octuplets to tax... 
      ar.. Atlanta-based program tries to bring digital infor... 
      as.. Interpreter creates children's books in ASL, Engli... 
      at.. EEOC lawsuit filed against Hawaii car dealership, ... 
      au.. Ireland cuts educational supports for hundreds of ... 
      av.. Canadian researcher wants to change how Paralympic... 
      aw.. First blind person to lead board of St. Louis blin... 
      ax.. Pennsylvania appeals court rules against parents w... 
      ay.. School district says it was overcharged by autism ... 
      az.. Los Angeles Zoo offers program for children with a... 
      ba.. Canadian researchers developing "mind-reading" dev... 
      bb.. Swedish study reports first-time mothers who give ... 
      bc.. Florida community plans conference on disaster pre... 
      bd.. ARC of Utah closing after 50 years 
      be.. Ugandans with donated wheelchairs told not to sell... 
      bf.. Paralympian sailor given AAPD leadership award 
      bg.. VP Biden to visit World Winter Games of Special Ol... 
      bh.. Disability activists, people with autism, parents ... 
      bi.. The new aesthetic prosthetics 
      bj.. Is "Big Bang Theory" an "Aspie sitcom"? 
      bk.. Friends say fatally beaten mother would not want a... 
      bl.. TSA defends its screening of wheelchair users afte... 
      bm.. New study pinpoints two genes that may cause autis... 
      bn.. "The Soloist," about Julliard-trained homeless mus... 
      bo.. DREDF starts YouTube channel 
      bp.. Canada probes deaths of several children with CP a... 
      bq.. N.M. advocates lobby for vital funding for people ... 
      br.. Nebraska parents want oversight of developmental d... 
      bs.. Baltimore police seek killer of disabled man 
      bt.. Octuplets' mom received $168,000 in disability pay... 
      bu.. Brain helmet may speed diagnosis of strokes 
      bv.. Group promotes better access to adaptive skiing 
      bw.. California budget crisis beginning to affect progr... 
      bx.. Jailing of man with Down syndrome in Canada highli... 
      by.. Families of developmentally disabled Hawaiians exp... 
      bz.. British soldier becomes first amputee to guard Que... 
      ca.. Australian online bookshop offers books in multipl... 
      cb.. Oregon lawmaker proposes voluntary database for la... 
      cc.. New encyclopedia traces history of disability in A... 
      cd.. Times investigation shows British doctor who claim... 
      ce.. Swimmer, coach with Down syndrome build a bond 
      cf.. Utah school district uses brain fitness program to... 
      cg.. SFSU student with autism flourishes 
      ch.. Advocates say mental health care in crisis in West... 
      ci.. USF developing smart chair for people with disabil... 
      cj.. "How's Your News?" episode revisits camp where dev... 
      ck.. Nursing homes evicting residents with less insuran... 
      cl.. Minnesota appeals court says intrepreter not a "ri... 
      cm.. Florida teacher who let class "vote out" child wit... 
      cn.. A comparison of House, Senate economic recovery pl... 
      co.. Ohio teen with autism charged with attempted murde... 
      cp.. Italian government stops death of woman in vegetat... 
      cq.. Rwanda begins program for its many disabled people... 
      cr.. Disability activists start campaign to keep suppor... 
      cs.. Legally blind teen with CP scores as a wrestler 
      ct.. Australian children as young as 4 receive electros... 
      cu.. Is comedy about N.Y. Gov. Paterson a different kin... 
      cv.. Federal judge criticizes Sarah Palin in open court... 
      cw.. Medicaid's computer problems in Wisconsin delay ne... 
      cx.. Disabled kids join ski activity in Maine, adaptive... 
      cy.. Ohio parents face child endangerment charges after... 
      cz.. Making video games accessible to deaf people 
      da.. Attorney argues that Nebraska man has MR diagnosis... 
      db.. One-man show tries to defuse stigma about mental i... 
      dc.. California town approves ordinance that allows dis... 
      dd.. Massachusetts families protest cuts to development... 
      de.. Secretary of State Clinton discusses the role of d... 
      df.. First U.S. Dept. of Labor disability unemployment ... 
      dg.. Convent that assisted people with disabilities to ... 
      dh.. Maryland school districts changes to people-first ... 
      di.. Leprosy drug holds promise for treating autoimmune... 
      dj.. Virginia autism bill stalls 
      dk.. Georgia teen honored as state's Physically Challen... 
      dl.. "America's Next Top Model" contestant with Asperge... 
      dm.. Wheelchair user sues LIRR over public embarassment... 
      dn.. Inclusive dance a hit in Hong Kong 
      do.. Massachusetts van driver charged after leaving dis... 
      dp.. "How's Your News" receives good review in The Wash... 
      dq.. SNL parodies Gov. Paterson again 
      dr.. Danish company quietly successful at saving poor p... 
      ds.. Texas state senator proposes plan to overhaul MR i... 
      dt.. More Disability Pride Inaugural Ball photos, video... 
      du.. New Flemish novel focuses on main character with A... 
      dv.. Disability official in Bahamas discusses access 
      dw.. Utah blind couple must trek far to catch bus 
      dx.. Trial of Google execs over Web video of taunting a... 
      dy.. Blind Babies Foundation celebrates 60th anniversar... 
      dz.. Basketball player with Down syndrome scores three ... 
      ea.. Learning disability drives 19-year-old college gra... 
      eb.. Tammy Duckworth to be nominated to VA post 
      ec.. Texas governor says situation with state MR instit... 
      ed.. Wisconsin governor asks legislature to require ins... 
      ee.. Big Brothers, Sisters program in Virginia adds dea... 
      ef.. Public school for children with autism to open in ... 
      eg.. Universities offer programs to attract disabled ve... 
      eh.. Drops in children's exposure to lead may be leadin... 
      ei.. Attorney appeals to U.S. Supreme Court to keep Mas... 
      ej.. Appeals court upholds convicted killer's MR claim 
      ek.. Study: Mental illness alone not a trigger for viol... 
      el.. British woman with MS continues her challenge to a... 
      em.. Israelis with disabilities need transportation to ... 
      en.. Web site supports protest of Oscars over Jerry Lew... 
      eo.. Scott MacIntyre competes on "American Idol's" Holl... 
      ep.. Texas parents developing 21-acre park for young pe... 
      eq.. NY health care groups use blind disabled man in ad... 
      er.. Death at developmental disability center prompts m... 
      es.. Kenyan explosion sends almost 200 people to burn u... 
      et.. Adults with developmental disabilities are treated... 
      eu.. Stem cell research hopes for a rebirth under Obama... 
      ev.. Iowa deals with cuts to services for people with d... 
      ew.. Virginia parents seek insurance coverage for autis... 
      ex.. British executive with dyslexia develops voice-act... 
      ey.. China adds disability access signs 
      ez.. Blind actress adds depth to "Molly Sweeney" role 
      fa.. New Internet connection in remote part of Kenya us... 
      fb.. Terrible Towels' sales support people with develop... 
      fc.. Osmond family member with MS on his way to Hollywo... 
      fd.. Video of Liyana concert in NY City available onlin... 
      fe.. Mental health programs in Tennessee face cuts 
      ff.. Pre-school autism program in S.C. saved for now 
      fg.. Mothers of disabled children in India face abandon... 
    a.. ► January (281) 
  a.. ► 2008 (1923) 
    a.. ► December (234) 
    a.. ► November (233) 
    a.. ► October (243) 
    a.. ► September (229) 
    a.. ► August (224) 
    a.. ► July (218) 
    a.. ► June (171) 
    a.. ► May (116) 
    a.. ► April (95) 
    a.. ► March (81) 
    a.. ► February (54) 
    a.. ► January (25) 
 
About Me
 
  BA Haller 
  I have studied the media for almost 20 years and this blog is about my research interest: the media and disability. The media have real power to define what the public knows about disability and that's what I investigate. I am also a writer and media watcher and want to tell others what I find out about this topic. 
View my complete profile 
 
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From iamantonio at cox.net  Mon Feb 16 23:36:44 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:36:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAMJOUvR4hPFKgJ+ufuTaPgIBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <025e01c9908f$6d4b6330$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello Jason,

I know that Kathy Davis, the president of the NFB in Florida, is in training 
at Louisiana Center for the Blind. This could be delaying her ability to 
respond, but I know her, and find her caring and helpful. Keep trying, or 
ask that she direct your query to a vice-president, or board member.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Mandarino" <blind.subscriber at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Florida Students


> Hey Jamie,
>
> Give me a call when you get this or a few minutes to talk. I am running 
> into
> difficulty with touching base with your President as well.
>
> Name: Jason Mandarino
> Mobile: (706) 399-6993
> Appropriate email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net
>
> Thanks,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Jamie Principato
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
>
> Hi there,
>
> I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
> anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on 
> here?
> Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
> division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
> our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of 
> blind
> students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
> even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
> our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
> how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
> this?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 23:45:06 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:45:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <025e01c9908f$6d4b6330$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAMJOUvR4hPFKgJ+ufuTaPgIBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<025e01c9908f$6d4b6330$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <63af025c0902161545h435c5f00ma517c37625f9ab8f@mail.gmail.com>

That's definitely useful information, but is this the same person who is
currently president of FABS?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Antonio M. Guimaraes <iamantonio at cox.net>wrote:

> Hello Jason,
>
> I know that Kathy Davis, the president of the NFB in Florida, is in
> training at Louisiana Center for the Blind. This could be delaying her
> ability to respond, but I know her, and find her caring and helpful. Keep
> trying, or ask that she direct your query to a vice-president, or board
> member.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" <
> blind.subscriber at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Florida Students
>
>
>  Hey Jamie,
>>
>> Give me a call when you get this or a few minutes to talk. I am running
>> into
>> difficulty with touching base with your President as well.
>>
>> Name: Jason Mandarino
>> Mobile: (706) 399-6993
>> Appropriate email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Jamie Principato
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
>>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
>> anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on
>> here?
>> Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
>> division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
>> our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of
>> blind
>> students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
>> even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
>> our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
>> how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
>> this?
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 00:03:04 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:03:04 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Test Again 4-15
In-Reply-To: <auto-000086110013@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <FE1DD47DD6454497B35D0365AF17B84E@D3ZCJ891>
	<7949e5e20902142005s2e041398v301a15a9d6a847e2@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD9499B6-19E2-4817-9560-3CC32743271D@gmail.com>
	<auto-000086110013@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <20090217000304.GA57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Dave,

The reason for that is because Gmail "Sent Messages" have the same 
message ID as the message sent through the server.  It sees the 
message coming through the server as a duplicate, and therefore 
ignores it.

The way to avoid this is to never let Gmail see the message until it 
comes from the list.  Use your own mail program and don't use the 
Gmail SMTP server to send.  I have a second Gmail account I use for 
sending mail only to avoid this problem, however it has its 
limitations.  Namely, Gmail adds this "Sender" header field to 
messages that plays havoc with some mail software.  (Sun's Messenger 
Express and Dan Bernstein's ezmlm come to mind..)

Unfortunately, I have yet to find a good alternative to Gmail for a 
SMTP server I can use from anywhere.

Sorry if that's a nerdier explanation than anybody wanted.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 01:00:44PM -0600, David Andrews wrote:
> It depends on your ISP, and your list settings.  I believe that gmail  
> blocks these messages, don't know if you can change that.  Most ISP's  
> don't though, so most people do get copies of their own posts.
>
> Dave


From iamantonio at cox.net  Tue Feb 17 00:08:35 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:08:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAMJOUvR4hPFKgJ+ufuTaPgIBAAAAAA==@gmail.com><025e01c9908f$6d4b6330$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<63af025c0902161545h435c5f00ma517c37625f9ab8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <026a01c99093$e0548ec0$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Nope,

Kathy is not president of the student division, but could put some pressure 
on that individual if need be.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Florida Students


> That's definitely useful information, but is this the same person who is
> currently president of FABS?
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Antonio M. Guimaraes 
> <iamantonio at cox.net>wrote:
>
>> Hello Jason,
>>
>> I know that Kathy Davis, the president of the NFB in Florida, is in
>> training at Louisiana Center for the Blind. This could be delaying her
>> ability to respond, but I know her, and find her caring and helpful. Keep
>> trying, or ask that she direct your query to a vice-president, or board
>> member.
>>
>> Antonio Guimaraes
>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" <
>> blind.subscriber at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Florida Students
>>
>>
>>  Hey Jamie,
>>>
>>> Give me a call when you get this or a few minutes to talk. I am running
>>> into
>>> difficulty with touching base with your President as well.
>>>
>>> Name: Jason Mandarino
>>> Mobile: (706) 399-6993
>>> Appropriate email: j.mandarino1 at comcast.net
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jamie Principato
>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
>>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
>>> anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on
>>> here?
>>> Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
>>> division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch 
>>> with
>>> our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of
>>> blind
>>> students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally 
>>> didn't
>>> even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think 
>>> that
>>> our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas 
>>> of
>>> how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians 
>>> reading
>>> this?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 17 00:23:26 2009
From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:23:26 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast has been updated.
Message-ID: <74E5A370810B44239BCF15E12F75D1AA@usore540475a8f>

I have responded to someone's request. I did a podcast where I walked from my house to Subway. I explained how I was crossing 2 streets with traffic lights. The major streets I crossed were 2200 West and Red Wood Road. I figured it would be best to explain how I do this while I am crossing the streets. I also talked about The Washington Seminar I attended. I talked about the importants of having minimal sound, and other legislation. I hope you enjoy the podcast.

"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche

From iamantonio at cox.net  Tue Feb 17 00:28:11 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:28:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem
	forblind people
References: <8AA63FD1264E42C4BD0DE55C25EA09A0@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <001201c99096$9d882810$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

The text attached reads:

Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for blind people

Thursday, June 5, 2008
Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for blind people


In 2007 the National Federation of the Blind reported that hybrid cars, 
because they make little noise at slower speeds, posed a hazard to blind 
pedestrians


"I'm used to being able to get sound cues from my environment and negotiate 
accordingly. I hadn't imagined there was anything I really wouldn't be able 
to hear," said Deborah Kent Stein, chairwoman of the National Federation of 
the Blind's Committee on Automotive and Pedestrian Safety. "We did a test, 
and I discovered, to my great dismay, that I couldn't hear it."


Now two Stanford University graduate students have solved that problem by 
creating a soft, high-pitch hum that can be heard when the silent electric 
motor of the hybrid is engaged.


Everett Meyer, co-founder of Enhanced Vehicle Acoustics, who will graduate 
next week with an M.D./Ph.D. degree in immunology, and fellow founder Bryan 
Bai, who also will graduate next week with a Ph.D. in electrical 
engineering, say that adding the sound is a public safety issue, especially 
for blind people who use their hearing to maneuver.


The Palo Alto Daily News says the California blind community already 
supports their invention.


"The specter is that any time you cross a street, you don't know if it's 
safe to cross. ... That's a fundamental change that's happened only in the 
past few years,'' said Brian Bashin, a member of the California National 
Federation of the Blind's Quiet Cars Committee. "In the previous 100 years, 
cars have always made enough noise.''


The patent-pending system designed by Meyer and Bai still will be quieter 
than most gasoline-engine cars.


"At less than 50 decibels, the sound is practically inaudible inside the 
car. But the system externally emits a soft engine noise from four speakers 
attached to the vehicle's front and rear," the Daily News reports.


The sound system plugs into the hybrid's computer system and takes less 
energy than a car radio.
Posted by BA Haller at 7:42 AM
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About Me

  BA Haller
  I have studied the media for almost 20 years and this blog is about my 
research interest: the media and disability. The media have real power to 
define what the public knows about disability and that's what I investigate. 
I am also a writer and media watcher and want to tell others what I find out 
about this topic.
View my complete profile


Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem 
forblind people


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
> 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 00:29:47 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:29:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Antonio,

I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct 
and separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet 
blissfully unaware of a great many things.

Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, 
and yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of 
them on these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted 
whose literacy I also question.

Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability 
to write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those 
forms of reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist 
in writing.

Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use 
spellings indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather 
than access to the written word in a way that includes some form of 
letter-sound correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to 
these lists write their messages as single long paragraphs?  These 
types of errors negatively impact what others' think of them, 
particularly if those others do not use a screen reader to access 
their world.

Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that 
is truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are 
going to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that 
includes written communication, we must learn to write in a way that 
is meant to be read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.

This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability 
to hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a 
website through a screen reader is simply not enough.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some thought in about reading and literacy.
>
>First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?
>
>I have as many questions as I think I have the answers. 
>
>First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.
>
>By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text to speech. 
>
>I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy. 
>
>I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing. 
>
>Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.
>
>I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small fraction of the material.
>
>A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving on to something else.
>
>So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time to read about religion, and so fourth.
>
>I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy skills.
>
>Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?
>
>What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>
>Antonio Guimaraes
>Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 
>Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From carlos.montas at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 00:31:44 2009
From: carlos.montas at gmail.com (Carlos J montas)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:31:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8DE2BC6590FA4BD5A776C3B2DF9E8D17@CarlosPC>

Good afternoon to you Jamie, my name is Carlos J montas. I live in Florida. 
How ever, I am currently living in Louisiana as I am attending the Louisiana 
center for the blind in Ruston. I have had some difficulty contacting are 
president of are division. If you would like please contact me at 
carlos.montas at gmail.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 3:59 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students


> Hi there,
>
> I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
> anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on 
> here?
> Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
> division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
> our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of 
> blind
> students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
> even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
> our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
> how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
> this?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40gmail.com 



From liamskitten at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 00:55:00 2009
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Linda Stover)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:55:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast has been updated.
In-Reply-To: <74E5A370810B44239BCF15E12F75D1AA@usore540475a8f>
References: <74E5A370810B44239BCF15E12F75D1AA@usore540475a8f>
Message-ID: <7949e5e20902161655x96b54dak8ebf170c50cb1474@mail.gmail.com>

Kevin,

Can you provide those of us who are not familiar with your podcast a
link.  Thank you very much.
Courtney

On 2/16/09, Kevin Wassmer <commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have responded to someone's request. I did a podcast where I walked from
> my house to Subway. I explained how I was crossing 2 streets with traffic
> lights. The major streets I crossed were 2200 West and Red Wood Road. I
> figured it would be best to explain how I do this while I am crossing the
> streets. I also talked about The Washington Seminar I attended. I talked
> about the importants of having minimal sound, and other legislation. I hope
> you enjoy the podcast.
>
> "You say, Son, let's forget the past,
> I want another chance, gonna make it last.
> You're begging me for a brand new start,
> trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
> but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com  Tue Feb 17 01:13:31 2009
From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 17:13:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast has been updated.
In-Reply-To: <74E5A370810B44239BCF15E12F75D1AA@usore540475a8f>
References: <74E5A370810B44239BCF15E12F75D1AA@usore540475a8f>
Message-ID: <COL0-DAV38E843D8DE6057D54C88F7B5B40@phx.gbl>

Do you have link to the pod cast of what you talking about in this email
message?
From
Jacob Struiksma
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kevin Wassmer
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: hands-list at googlegroups.com
Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast has been updated.

I have responded to someone's request. I did a podcast where I walked from
my house to Subway. I explained how I was crossing 2 streets with traffic
lights. The major streets I crossed were 2200 West and Red Wood Road. I
figured it would be best to explain how I do this while I am crossing the
streets. I also talked about The Washington Seminar I attended. I talked
about the importants of having minimal sound, and other legislation. I hope
you enjoy the podcast.

"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start, trying to mend a bridge that's been
blown apart, but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai
l.com



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Feb 17 01:32:59 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:32:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem
	forblind people
References: <8AA63FD1264E42C4BD0DE55C25EA09A0@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <008001c9909f$b0b03eb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Nicole and listers,

Could you please extract the text and send again? There are several images 
but no text documents attached to this email message. I'm sure we'd like to 
read what these folks have come up with.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem 
forblind people


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net



From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net  Tue Feb 17 01:35:06 2009
From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 18:35:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] my podcast has been updated.
References: <74E5A370810B44239BCF15E12F75D1AA@usore540475a8f>
	<7949e5e20902161655x96b54dak8ebf170c50cb1474@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E9E01EE3C8764C28B344B2A5580628B9@usore540475a8f>

Oh, that was dumb. The link is
http://www.gcast.com/u/kevinmcfan
"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linda Stover" <liamskitten at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my podcast has been updated.


> Kevin,
>
> Can you provide those of us who are not familiar with your podcast a
> link.  Thank you very much.
> Courtney
>
> On 2/16/09, Kevin Wassmer <commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I have responded to someone's request. I did a podcast where I walked 
>> from
>> my house to Subway. I explained how I was crossing 2 streets with traffic
>> lights. The major streets I crossed were 2200 West and Red Wood Road. I
>> figured it would be best to explain how I do this while I am crossing the
>> streets. I also talked about The Washington Seminar I attended. I talked
>> about the importants of having minimal sound, and other legislation. I 
>> hope
>> you enjoy the podcast.
>>
>> "You say, Son, let's forget the past,
>> I want another chance, gonna make it last.
>> You're begging me for a brand new start,
>> trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
>> but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Tue Feb 17 02:18:31 2009
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:18:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <004d01c990a6$07a84950$0501a8c0@Serene>

Joseph

That's true, but don't many sighted people write emails, without 
proofreading them, as well?  I'm sure many of them are literate!  And what 
about instant messaging and text messaging?  There are tons of abbreviations 
people use, but that doesn't mean they're illiterate.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice


> Antonio,
>
> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct and 
> separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet blissfully 
> unaware of a great many things.
>
> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, and 
> yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of them on 
> these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted whose 
> literacy I also question.
>
> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability to 
> write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those forms of 
> reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist in writing.
>
> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use spellings 
> indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather than access to 
> the written word in a way that includes some form of letter-sound 
> correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to these lists write 
> their messages as single long paragraphs?  These types of errors 
> negatively impact what others' think of them, particularly if those others 
> do not use a screen reader to access their world.
>
> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that is 
> truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are going 
> to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that includes 
> written communication, we must learn to write in a way that is meant to be 
> read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>
> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability to 
> hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a website 
> through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some 
>>thought in about reading and literacy.
>>
>>First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting 
>>reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?
>>
>>I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the 
>>discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles, 
>>magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.
>>
>>By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text 
>>to speech.
>>I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but 
>>not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell 
>>properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not 
>>indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best 
>>speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>>Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she 
>>or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.
>>
>>I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages 
>>in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without 
>>braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and 
>>with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small 
>>fraction of the material.
>>
>>A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than 
>>the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate 
>>person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is 
>>better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array 
>>of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on 
>>topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic 
>>for a month, then moving on to something else.
>>
>>So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we 
>>tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time 
>>to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>
>>I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much 
>>time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to 
>>being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken 
>>media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy 
>>skills.
>>
>>Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see 
>>that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an 
>>electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>
>>What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy 
>>promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>
>>Antonio Guimaraes
>>Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, 
>>America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 03:10:50 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:10:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students
In-Reply-To: <63af025c0902161359k3d4190bcj976d5efc8f78e709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED3D6520681043519878E6A7F8293E55@MonkeyPaw>

Jamie,

Up to this point you've concentrated on what you do not have.  You're unable
to communicate with the FABS board, and while this is certainly important,
it is only one problem.  Let's focus on what you do have.  You have a
Florida student list-serve.  You have at least three students from Florida
who have come out and introduced themselves to you.  You have access to
representatives from other divisions.  More importantly, you have ideas.
Now, tell me, how are you going to make it come together, and where can we
begin to help?

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jamie Principato
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Florida Students

Hi there,

I know I posted a similar question once before, but I thought I'd see if
anything changed since then. Do we have any other Florida students on here?
Or perhaps any FABS board members? I'm finding that the Florida student
division is rather...inactive. I've yet to successfully get in touch with
our president or anyone else in leadership. I know there are plenty of blind
students in the state, but a lot of the students I know personally didn't
even know we had a student division or even what the NFB was. I think that
our state division can definitely be more active, and I have some ideas of
how, but first I'd like to see who's out there. So, any floridians reading
this?
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%40gmail.com



From iamantonio at cox.net  Tue Feb 17 03:16:24 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:16:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <000d01c990ae$1d9d7f20$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello Joseph,

Thank you for your thoughtful, inteligent response. I understand your point 
about literacy being about reading and writing, annd not about ability to 
think. In our discussion, we should separate what it means to be inteligent 
from what it means to be literate. At least I think it might be useful in 
your context, even though I somehow think one reflects on the other.

Let me present to you my mother. Mom is highly inteligent, yet not very 
educated. She is insucure about her english, and does not cultivate the 
habbit of reading. She has always been preoccupied either about raising a 
family, or in current times, keeping a home durring tough economic climate. 
She can read and write in portuguese, and somewhat more limmitedly in 
English. I would not call her illiterate, because she can read and write. 
Yet she gets by without newspapers, and even the internet to some extent. 
She does go on her Orcut page, like a Flicker or FaceBook for 
south-Americans, so she is confortable with new learning.

If we define literacy as the ability to read and write, mom is both 
inteligent and literate. Take it with a grain of salt, she is my mom after 
all, so I better follow one of the commandments, and honor mother and 
father.

If you get more sofisticated, you may accept the UNESCO deffinition:

"'Literacy' is the ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, 
communicate, compute and use printed and written materials associated with 
varying contexts. Literacy involves a continuum of learning to enable an 
individual to achieve his or her goals, to develop his or her knowledge and 
potential, and to participate fully in the wider society."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy

this deffinition calls for personal growth, and participation in society. 
One should use his or her ability to write as a vehicle for achieving one's 
goals, developing one's knowledge and potential, and participating in one's 
society. Sounds empowering, and progress-bound. Don't just know how to read, 
but use reading to improve your position and standing in your social 
circles.

In another way, this definition of literacy goes beyond the basics, even to 
suggest that you be able and confortable with statistics, perhaps.

"ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate, compute 
and use printed and written materials associated with varying contexts."

Compute, it said. So, I guess I could say I was literate enough to realize 
that the National Library Services for the Blind was publishing way too many 
books on magic tricks. More than I care to read, or even care to know so 
much of their resources would be going to such fruitless publications.

I think compute information could be refering to some level of mathematical 
computations as a demonstration of literacy. Fare enough.

This definition, and I like this definition a lot, calls you to

1. identify

Find, procure, locate, get your hand on relevant material for your subject. 
Identifying is part of research.

2.  understand,

One must be able to comprehend. This requires a knowledge of the vocabulary, 
and command of the language. If you can't handle Shakespeare, or Hawthorn, 
then you aught to do some work, start from easier readings before you tackle 
such writers.

3. interpret,

This comes after understanding, and undeniably requires some level of 
inteligence. Most people have inteligence, and that sets humans apart from 
other animals.

To interpret is to make inferences from your reading. It's reading between 
the lines, and having knowledge of the author's intent.

Because literacy requires interpreting, and interpreting requires 
inteligence, then literacy requires inteligence.

4. Create

It's fine to read and write, but to simply be able to write, and not do it 
is not an accurate demonstration of literacy. Also, the Definition does not 
call for being able to write well, just well enough  for your social 
context. One need not be able to tell a story, unless she or he is a 
journalist, or biographer, or the holder of a job where you need to be an 
attention-grabbing story-teller.

5. communicate,.

this is the one that I think calls for more excelency. You must be able to 
communicate, or convey a message. Did I spell convey correctly? If not, had 
you noticed it before? If it is a misspelling, and I had doubts about it, 
you think I would consult a dictionary about it if these were an actual 
manuscript or professional document? You bet I would! this is no excuse for 
filling the list with incomprehenssive blabberings on, which I hope I don't 
do too much of.

I think communicating is the first call for one's ability to make a 
difference. If you want to be well-respected, and considered as someone who 
gets it, and writes effectively, you better be a good communicator. There 
are entire college courses and majors on this topic, so I won't pretend I 
know the first thing about it.

6. compute and use printed and written materials associated with varying 
contexts.

The language about varying contexts calls for broadness of mind. So read all 
the NLS books about magic and card tricks, and you will likely not be 
fulfilling this requirement. Completely ignore the cart tricks books, and 
any other book on fun performance-related subjects, and you could not be 
fulfilling this requirement once again. Whatever else this might mean, it 
does call for one to read widely.

So whatever literacy means will depend on the definition of another word: 
reading.

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice


> Antonio,
>
> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct and 
> separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet blissfully 
> unaware of a great many things.
>
> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, and 
> yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of them on 
> these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted whose 
> literacy I also question.
>
> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability to 
> write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those forms of 
> reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist in writing.
>
> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use spellings 
> indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather than access to 
> the written word in a way that includes some form of letter-sound 
> correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to these lists write 
> their messages as single long paragraphs?  These types of errors 
> negatively impact what others' think of them, particularly if those others 
> do not use a screen reader to access their world.
>
> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that is 
> truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are going 
> to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that includes 
> written communication, we must learn to write in a way that is meant to be 
> read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>
> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability to 
> hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a website 
> through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some 
>>thought in about reading and literacy.
>>
>>First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting 
>>reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?
>>
>>I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the 
>>discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles, 
>>magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.
>>
>>By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text 
>>to speech.
>>I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but 
>>not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell 
>>properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not 
>>indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best 
>>speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>>Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she 
>>or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.
>>
>>I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages 
>>in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without 
>>braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and 
>>with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small 
>>fraction of the material.
>>
>>A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than 
>>the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate 
>>person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is 
>>better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array 
>>of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on 
>>topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic 
>>for a month, then moving on to something else.
>>
>>So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we 
>>tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time 
>>to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>
>>I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much 
>>time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to 
>>being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken 
>>media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy 
>>skills.
>>
>>Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see 
>>that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an 
>>electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>
>>What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy 
>>promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>
>>Antonio Guimaraes
>>Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, 
>>America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From thisischris89 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 03:17:34 2009
From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christopher Kchao)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:17:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <004d01c990a6$07a84950$0501a8c0@Serene>
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb><20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<004d01c990a6$07a84950$0501a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <01CC9C7FAD944E109877CAC1385E7778@consumer281f9d>

I'm struggling to find the main point in your message, but I would like to
address the issue of mediums such as e-mail/instant messaging/texting. There
are a handful of people who are lacking in the Braille skills department,
and that pertains to the proofreading issue you mentioned. I don't believe
that Braille is archaic or unnecessary. I do however think that it isn't as
efficient as other mediums. It's doubtful that the volume of reading I do in
college would permit me to use Braille as my primary reading medium; it
seems that there simply aren't enough hours in the day. Especially for a
child who has been blind since birth, Braille aids in creating a solid
foundation for them so that they may learn to read and write with proper
spelling and syntax. Things like spelling cannot be properly conveied, or is
that conveyed through passive listening. I see an increasing problem
occurring, or occurring with those who heavily rely on synthetic speech,
especially the eloquence synth found in JAWS. It doesn't make proofreading
very easy because words have the tendency to sound like they're written with
proper spelling if they're close enough to sounding like whatever word
you're really aiming to write. Spellcheck exists in computers, but some
people can be too lazy to use automation, autimation, or is that audimation
to make their writing look more presentable, or presentable. It's a setback
that I've seen many blind people face, myself included.
I don't use much Braille these days due to a heavy workload and the
ever-growing need for efficiency, but there are times when I don't know the
spelling of common words that I probably would have known had I actually
read them on a regular basis.
Also, I'm wondering if for blind people, the term "reading" contains about
as much ambiguity as terms like "watching" a show or going to "see" an old
friend. I don't think of myself listening to a book that I scanned for a
class, listening to the TV, or hearing someone later. If you want to get
picky though, perhaps using speech or an audio book isn't exactly reading by
definition.
I think that only having the ability to use auditory or electronic mediums
to access written material makes a person literate just as much as
collecting jazz records makes them a musician. The term "functionally
illiterate" comes to mind.
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Serena
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice

Joseph

That's true, but don't many sighted people write emails, without 
proofreading them, as well?  I'm sure many of them are literate!  And what 
about instant messaging and text messaging?  There are tons of abbreviations

people use, but that doesn't mean they're illiterate.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice


> Antonio,
>
> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct and 
> separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet blissfully 
> unaware of a great many things.
>
> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, and 
> yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of them on 
> these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted whose 
> literacy I also question.
>
> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability to 
> write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those forms of 
> reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist in writing.
>
> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use spellings 
> indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather than access to 
> the written word in a way that includes some form of letter-sound 
> correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to these lists write

> their messages as single long paragraphs?  These types of errors 
> negatively impact what others' think of them, particularly if those others

> do not use a screen reader to access their world.
>
> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that is 
> truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are going 
> to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that includes 
> written communication, we must learn to write in a way that is meant to be

> read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>
> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability to 
> hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a website 
> through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some

>>thought in about reading and literacy.
>>
>>First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting 
>>reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?
>>
>>I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the 
>>discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles,

>>magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.
>>
>>By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text 
>>to speech.
>>I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but

>>not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell 
>>properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not 
>>indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best 
>>speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>>Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she 
>>or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.
>>
>>I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages

>>in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without 
>>braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and 
>>with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small 
>>fraction of the material.
>>
>>A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than 
>>the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate 
>>person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is 
>>better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array 
>>of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on 
>>topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic 
>>for a month, then moving on to something else.
>>
>>So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we 
>>tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time 
>>to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>
>>I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much

>>time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to

>>being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken 
>>media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy 
>>skills.
>>
>>Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see

>>that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an 
>>electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>
>>What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy 
>>promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>
>>Antonio Guimaraes
>>Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, 
>>America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40g
mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net 


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From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 03:47:51 2009
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:47:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <000d01c990ae$1d9d7f20$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>	<20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<000d01c990ae$1d9d7f20$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <499A3367.6000405@gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

I really appreciate that we are taking the time to discuss this topic 
thoughtfully.  It is a popular argument, especially since so many blind 
people cannot read Braille due to losing sight later in life and not 
having the time or motivation to learn it.  Of course, these people 
would be offended if they were called illiterate.  It is my personal 
opinion that every blind person should attempt at their fullest to learn 
Braille.  Ever since I was a child, I have utilized Braille for many 
different tasks, including labeling, reading notes while presenting, and 
identifying door signs.  On the other hand, however, there are many 
applications where it may be easier or more appropriate to use one's 
auditory skills.  For instance, we often don't have a choice if a 
publication isn't available in Braille.  I guess the best compromize is 
to possess both skills--that is, the ability to capture information by 
reading and listening--however, one is not literate if they cannot 
read..  This is because of several reasons; the main one that comes to 
mind is the ability to write clearly, cleanly, and denote paragraphs and 
punctuation as earlier stated by Mr. Carter.  These types of skills are 
not attained simply by listening.

  Mr. Guimaraes , I apologize but I do not understand where your mother 
fits into the equasion.  We are discussing literacy.  Your mother, even 
though she may not be fully proficient in English literacy, is still 
literate in her native tongue.  So, to my mind, she is literate and that 
example is irrelevent.

Thanks for an intelligent discussion,
Robby

Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
> Hello Joseph,
> 
> Thank you for your thoughtful, inteligent response. I understand your 
> point about literacy being about reading and writing, annd not about 
> ability to think. In our discussion, we should separate what it means to 
> be inteligent from what it means to be literate. At least I think it 
> might be useful in your context, even though I somehow think one 
> reflects on the other.
> 
> Let me present to you my mother. Mom is highly inteligent, yet not very 
> educated. She is insucure about her english, and does not cultivate the 
> habbit of reading. She has always been preoccupied either about raising 
> a family, or in current times, keeping a home durring tough economic 
> climate. She can read and write in portuguese, and somewhat more 
> limmitedly in English. I would not call her illiterate, because she can 
> read and write. Yet she gets by without newspapers, and even the 
> internet to some extent. She does go on her Orcut page, like a Flicker 
> or FaceBook for south-Americans, so she is confortable with new learning.
> 
> If we define literacy as the ability to read and write, mom is both 
> inteligent and literate. Take it with a grain of salt, she is my mom 
> after all, so I better follow one of the commandments, and honor mother 
> and father.
> 
> If you get more sofisticated, you may accept the UNESCO deffinition:
> 
> "'Literacy' is the ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, 
> communicate, compute and use printed and written materials associated 
> with varying contexts. Literacy involves a continuum of learning to 
> enable an individual to achieve his or her goals, to develop his or her 
> knowledge and potential, and to participate fully in the wider society."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy
> 
> this deffinition calls for personal growth, and participation in 
> society. One should use his or her ability to write as a vehicle for 
> achieving one's goals, developing one's knowledge and potential, and 
> participating in one's society. Sounds empowering, and progress-bound. 
> Don't just know how to read, but use reading to improve your position 
> and standing in your social circles.
> 
> In another way, this definition of literacy goes beyond the basics, even 
> to suggest that you be able and confortable with statistics, perhaps.
> 
> "ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate, 
> compute and use printed and written materials associated with varying 
> contexts."
> 
> Compute, it said. So, I guess I could say I was literate enough to 
> realize that the National Library Services for the Blind was publishing 
> way too many books on magic tricks. More than I care to read, or even 
> care to know so much of their resources would be going to such fruitless 
> publications.
> 
> I think compute information could be refering to some level of 
> mathematical computations as a demonstration of literacy. Fare enough.
> 
> This definition, and I like this definition a lot, calls you to
> 
> 1. identify
> 
> Find, procure, locate, get your hand on relevant material for your 
> subject. Identifying is part of research.
> 
> 2.  understand,
> 
> One must be able to comprehend. This requires a knowledge of the 
> vocabulary, and command of the language. If you can't handle 
> Shakespeare, or Hawthorn, then you aught to do some work, start from 
> easier readings before you tackle such writers.
> 
> 3. interpret,
> 
> This comes after understanding, and undeniably requires some level of 
> inteligence. Most people have inteligence, and that sets humans apart 
> from other animals.
> 
> To interpret is to make inferences from your reading. It's reading 
> between the lines, and having knowledge of the author's intent.
> 
> Because literacy requires interpreting, and interpreting requires 
> inteligence, then literacy requires inteligence.
> 
> 4. Create
> 
> It's fine to read and write, but to simply be able to write, and not do 
> it is not an accurate demonstration of literacy. Also, the Definition 
> does not call for being able to write well, just well enough  for your 
> social context. One need not be able to tell a story, unless she or he 
> is a journalist, or biographer, or the holder of a job where you need to 
> be an attention-grabbing story-teller.
> 
> 5. communicate,.
> 
> this is the one that I think calls for more excelency. You must be able 
> to communicate, or convey a message. Did I spell convey correctly? If 
> not, had you noticed it before? If it is a misspelling, and I had doubts 
> about it, you think I would consult a dictionary about it if these were 
> an actual manuscript or professional document? You bet I would! this is 
> no excuse for filling the list with incomprehenssive blabberings on, 
> which I hope I don't do too much of.
> 
> I think communicating is the first call for one's ability to make a 
> difference. If you want to be well-respected, and considered as someone 
> who gets it, and writes effectively, you better be a good communicator. 
> There are entire college courses and majors on this topic, so I won't 
> pretend I know the first thing about it.
> 
> 6. compute and use printed and written materials associated with varying 
> contexts.
> 
> The language about varying contexts calls for broadness of mind. So read 
> all the NLS books about magic and card tricks, and you will likely not 
> be fulfilling this requirement. Completely ignore the cart tricks books, 
> and any other book on fun performance-related subjects, and you could 
> not be fulfilling this requirement once again. Whatever else this might 
> mean, it does call for one to read widely.
> 
> So whatever literacy means will depend on the definition of another 
> word: reading.
> 
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
> 
> 
>> Antonio,
>>
>> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct 
>> and separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet 
>> blissfully unaware of a great many things.
>>
>> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, 
>> and yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of 
>> them on these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted 
>> whose literacy I also question.
>>
>> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability 
>> to write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those 
>> forms of reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist 
>> in writing.
>>
>> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use 
>> spellings indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather 
>> than access to the written word in a way that includes some form of 
>> letter-sound correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to 
>> these lists write their messages as single long paragraphs?  These 
>> types of errors negatively impact what others' think of them, 
>> particularly if those others do not use a screen reader to access 
>> their world.
>>
>> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that 
>> is truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are 
>> going to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that 
>> includes written communication, we must learn to write in a way that 
>> is meant to be read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>>
>> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability 
>> to hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a 
>> website through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw 
>>> some thought in about reading and literacy.
>>>
>>> First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is 
>>> getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter 
>>> the method?
>>>
>>> I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>> First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the 
>>> discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, 
>>> articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are 
>>> conveyed.
>>>
>>> By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an 
>>> text to speech.
>>> I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for 
>>> literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not 
>>> learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect 
>>> spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>> I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best 
>>> speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>>> Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though 
>>> she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable 
>>> communicator.
>>>
>>> I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs 
>>> messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two 
>>> hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get 
>>> at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would only be 
>>> able to read a small fraction of the material.
>>>
>>> A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world 
>>> than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the 
>>> literate person is by some measures a more interesting person because 
>>> she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some authority 
>>> about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set out a 
>>> reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I limmited 
>>> myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving on to 
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we 
>>> tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the 
>>> time to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>>
>>> I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as 
>>> much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the 
>>> only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, 
>>> or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing 
>>> good literacy skills.
>>>
>>> Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do 
>>> you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by 
>>> reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy 
>>> promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>>
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, 
>>> America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com 
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 
> 

-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senate - Recording Secretary


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 04:08:59 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:08:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <004d01c990a6$07a84950$0501a8c0@Serene>
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<004d01c990a6$07a84950$0501a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <20090217040859.GD57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Serena,

All I can say is that there is a difference between a hastily written 
(and not proofread) email and one written by someone with little or 
no experience with the written word.  If one cannot see the written 
word (or even if the written word takes such great effort to see that 
one generally chooses speech as an alternative), he or she is 
deprived of valuable written information--even when it is read aloud.

My example of writing is just the most obvious case in which a person 
can see the effects of this missing information.  As such, I think it 
does constitute a literacy deficit.

It's an important if unfortunate fact of human nature that even some 
of those who should understand the situation when they encounter the  
writing of a person who lacks this skill will nonetheless think less 
of that person for such things.  Solid Braille skills make a blind 
person better able to function in the sighted world, not less able.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 09:18:31PM -0500, Serena wrote:
> Joseph
>
> That's true, but don't many sighted people write emails, without  
> proofreading them, as well?  I'm sure many of them are literate!  And 
> what about instant messaging and text messaging?  There are tons of 
> abbreviations people use, but that doesn't mean they're illiterate.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" 
> <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"  
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
>
>
>> Antonio,
>>
>> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct 
>> and separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet 
>> blissfully unaware of a great many things.
>>
>> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, 
>> and yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of 
>> them on these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted 
>> whose literacy I also question.
>>
>> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability 
>> to write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those 
>> forms of reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist 
>> in writing.
>>
>> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use spellings 
>> indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather than access to 
>> the written word in a way that includes some form of letter-sound  
>> correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to these lists 
>> write their messages as single long paragraphs?  These types of errors  
>> negatively impact what others' think of them, particularly if those 
>> others do not use a screen reader to access their world.
>>
>> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that is 
>> truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are 
>> going to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that 
>> includes written communication, we must learn to write in a way that is 
>> meant to be read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>>
>> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability to 
>> hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a website  
>> through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw 
>>> some thought in about reading and literacy.
>>>
>>> First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is 
>>> getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter 
>>> the method?
>>>
>>> I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>> First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the  
>>> discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, 
>>> articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are 
>>> conveyed.
>>>
>>> By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an 
>>> text to speech.
>>> I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for 
>>> literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not 
>>> learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect 
>>> spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>> I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best  
>>> speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my 
>>> writing.
>>> Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though 
>>> she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable 
>>> communicator.
>>>
>>> I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs 
>>> messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two 
>>> hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get 
>>> at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would only be 
>>> able to read a small fraction of the material.
>>>
>>> A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world 
>>> than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the 
>>> literate person is by some measures a more interesting person because 
>>> she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some authority 
>>> about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set out a 
>>> reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I limmited 
>>> myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving on to 
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we  
>>> tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the 
>>> time to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>>
>>> I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as 
>>> much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the 
>>> only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, 
>>> or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing 
>>> good literacy skills.
>>>
>>> Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do 
>>> you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by 
>>> reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy  
>>> promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>>
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, 
>>> America's Online Charity Shopping Mall  
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
>> nabs-l:
  
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 
>> 
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 04:15:13 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:15:13 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <000d01c990ae$1d9d7f20$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<000d01c990ae$1d9d7f20$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <20090217041513.GE57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Antonio,

If I my restate what I understand your first point to be succinctly, 
literacy seems to have a language context.  That is, your mom is 
literate in Portuguese, but much less literate in English.

Literacy also incorporates the ability to read, use, and produce 
written language.  I think we can agree on that point.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:16:24PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
> Hello Joseph,
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful, inteligent response. I understand your 
> point about literacy being about reading and writing, annd not about 
> ability to think. In our discussion, we should separate what it means to 
> be inteligent from what it means to be literate. At least I think it 
> might be useful in your context, even though I somehow think one reflects 
> on the other.
>
> Let me present to you my mother. Mom is highly inteligent, yet not very  
> educated. She is insucure about her english, and does not cultivate the  
> habbit of reading. She has always been preoccupied either about raising a 
> family, or in current times, keeping a home durring tough economic 
> climate. She can read and write in portuguese, and somewhat more 
> limmitedly in English. I would not call her illiterate, because she can 
> read and write. Yet she gets by without newspapers, and even the internet 
> to some extent. She does go on her Orcut page, like a Flicker or FaceBook 
> for south-Americans, so she is confortable with new learning.
>
> If we define literacy as the ability to read and write, mom is both  
> inteligent and literate. Take it with a grain of salt, she is my mom 
> after all, so I better follow one of the commandments, and honor mother 
> and father.
>
> If you get more sofisticated, you may accept the UNESCO deffinition:
>
> "'Literacy' is the ability to identify, understand, interpret, create,  
> communicate, compute and use printed and written materials associated 
> with varying contexts. Literacy involves a continuum of learning to 
> enable an individual to achieve his or her goals, to develop his or her 
> knowledge and potential, and to participate fully in the wider society."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy
>
> this deffinition calls for personal growth, and participation in society. 
> One should use his or her ability to write as a vehicle for achieving 
> one's goals, developing one's knowledge and potential, and participating 
> in one's society. Sounds empowering, and progress-bound. Don't just know 
> how to read, but use reading to improve your position and standing in 
> your social circles.
>
> In another way, this definition of literacy goes beyond the basics, even 
> to suggest that you be able and confortable with statistics, perhaps.
>
> "ability to identify, understand, interpret, create, communicate, compute 
> and use printed and written materials associated with varying contexts."
>
> Compute, it said. So, I guess I could say I was literate enough to 
> realize that the National Library Services for the Blind was publishing 
> way too many books on magic tricks. More than I care to read, or even 
> care to know so much of their resources would be going to such fruitless 
> publications.
>
> I think compute information could be refering to some level of 
> mathematical computations as a demonstration of literacy. Fare enough.
>
> This definition, and I like this definition a lot, calls you to
>
> 1. identify
>
> Find, procure, locate, get your hand on relevant material for your 
> subject. Identifying is part of research.
>
> 2.  understand,
>
> One must be able to comprehend. This requires a knowledge of the 
> vocabulary, and command of the language. If you can't handle Shakespeare, 
> or Hawthorn, then you aught to do some work, start from easier readings 
> before you tackle such writers.
>
> 3. interpret,
>
> This comes after understanding, and undeniably requires some level of  
> inteligence. Most people have inteligence, and that sets humans apart 
> from other animals.
>
> To interpret is to make inferences from your reading. It's reading 
> between the lines, and having knowledge of the author's intent.
>
> Because literacy requires interpreting, and interpreting requires  
> inteligence, then literacy requires inteligence.
>
> 4. Create
>
> It's fine to read and write, but to simply be able to write, and not do 
> it is not an accurate demonstration of literacy. Also, the Definition 
> does not call for being able to write well, just well enough  for your 
> social context. One need not be able to tell a story, unless she or he is 
> a journalist, or biographer, or the holder of a job where you need to be 
> an attention-grabbing story-teller.
>
> 5. communicate,.
>
> this is the one that I think calls for more excelency. You must be able 
> to communicate, or convey a message. Did I spell convey correctly? If 
> not, had you noticed it before? If it is a misspelling, and I had doubts 
> about it, you think I would consult a dictionary about it if these were 
> an actual manuscript or professional document? You bet I would! this is 
> no excuse for filling the list with incomprehenssive blabberings on, 
> which I hope I don't do too much of.
>
> I think communicating is the first call for one's ability to make a  
> difference. If you want to be well-respected, and considered as someone 
> who gets it, and writes effectively, you better be a good communicator. 
> There are entire college courses and majors on this topic, so I won't 
> pretend I know the first thing about it.
>
> 6. compute and use printed and written materials associated with varying  
> contexts.
>
> The language about varying contexts calls for broadness of mind. So read 
> all the NLS books about magic and card tricks, and you will likely not be 
> fulfilling this requirement. Completely ignore the cart tricks books, and 
> any other book on fun performance-related subjects, and you could not be  
> fulfilling this requirement once again. Whatever else this might mean, it 
> does call for one to read widely.
>
> So whatever literacy means will depend on the definition of another word: 
> reading.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Feb 17 05:00:51 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:00:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car
	problemforblind people
References: <8AA63FD1264E42C4BD0DE55C25EA09A0@D3ZCJ891>
	<008001c9909f$b0b03eb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <C626B6DA59FE44E1834DBCF42A0D27BD@D3ZCJ891>

Sorry, not sure what my computer did.
Thursday, June 5, 2008
Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for blind people


In 2007 the National Federation of the Blind reported that hybrid cars, 
because they make little noise at slower speeds, posed a hazard to blind 
pedestrians


"I'm used to being able to get sound cues from my environment and negotiate 
accordingly. I hadn't imagined there was anything I really wouldn't be able 
to hear," said Deborah Kent Stein, chairwoman of the National Federation of 
the Blind's Committee on Automotive and Pedestrian Safety. "We did a test, 
and I discovered, to my great dismay, that I couldn't hear it."


Now two Stanford University graduate students have solved that problem by 
creating a soft, high-pitch hum that can be heard when the silent electric 
motor of the hybrid is engaged.


Everett Meyer, co-founder of Enhanced Vehicle Acoustics, who will graduate 
next week with an M.D./Ph.D. degree in immunology, and fellow founder Bryan 
Bai, who also will graduate next week with a Ph.D. in electrical 
engineering, say that adding the sound is a public safety issue, especially 
for blind people who use their hearing to maneuver.


The Palo Alto Daily News says the California blind community already 
supports their invention.


"The specter is that any time you cross a street, you don't know if it's 
safe to cross. ... That's a fundamental change that's happened only in the 
past few years,'' said Brian Bashin, a member of the California National 
Federation of the Blind's Quiet Cars Committee. "In the previous 100 years, 
cars have always made enough noise.''


The patent-pending system designed by Meyer and Bai still will be quieter 
than most gasoline-engine cars.


"At less than 50 decibels, the sound is practically inaudible inside the 
car. But the system externally emits a soft engine noise from four speakers 
attached to the vehicle's front and rear," the Daily News reports.


The sound system plugs into the hybrid's computer system and takes less 
energy than a car radio.
Posted by BA Haller at 7:42 AM

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From mworkman at ualberta.ca  Tue Feb 17 05:48:14 2009
From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:48:14 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <LNEJJKLNICEECFDGEDGLIEIMDIAA.mworkman@ualberta.ca>

A very interesting question.  As someone who relies almost exclusively on
JAWS, and who considers himself a decent writer, I'm going to take a stab at
defending the notion that synthetic speech can improve one's writing.

First off, I'm no braille detractor.  I lament the fact that my braille
skills aren't stronger (primarily because braille is the most efficient way
for a blind person to speak and read at the same time).

However, I've wondered to myself whether the fact that I construct sentences
and paragraphs in such a way that they sound good when read aloud makes a
difference in my writing.  Professors often encourage students to read their
work aloud before submiting it, but I don't think this is actually done very
often.  In my case, it is always read aloud, and this likely changes the way
I write to some extent.  I suspect it affects the way I construct sentences
as well as the words I choose, and I would argue that the effect is a
positive one.

I also think that reading something aloud with JAWS allows you to catch all
kinds of mistakes that the average sighted reader often misses.  Consider,
for example, a sentence from Joseph's message below.

"Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use
spellings indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather
than access to the written word in a way that includes some form of
letter-sound correspondence."

I could be mistaken, but I don't think the comma following "consider" is
correct.  Maybe a colon would be okay, but I don't think it actually needs
any punctuation.  This isn't to pick on Joseph at all; if it is a mistake,
it's a minor mistake in an otherwise well-written message from a talented
writer.  The point I want to make is that having JAWS read your text often
results in catching mistakes that sighted readers overlook.  When listening
to the sentence above, I notice right away that the pause after consider
doesn't sound right; though it probably *looks* fine at a glance.  True,
there are many mistakes that are virtually undetectable using JAWS, but my
point is only that this goes both ways.

The last point I will make is that, while it is true that we can learn
spelling and the rules of grammar much faster when using braille or print,
this isn't the only way to learn them.  You can set JAWS to read every
punctuation mark, and you can go and listen to books on grammar, with the
result that you end up having a better grasp of grammar and spelling rules
than most sighted readers.  Unlike tape and other forms of audio, JAWS
allows one to move through a sentence character by character and to
determine which punctuation marks will be read aloud.  This, I think, makes
JAWS somewhat unique.  It would be interesting to know what part of the
brain is activated when a JAWS user is using JAWS to read a textbook.  I
would not be at all surprised if it were the same part of the brain that is
activated in braille readers when reading braille and sighted readers when
reading print.  Do any of you happen to have an FMRI machine?

Marc

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of T. Joseph Carter
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice


Antonio,

I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct
and separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet
blissfully unaware of a great many things.

Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed,
and yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of
them on these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted
whose literacy I also question.

Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability
to write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those
forms of reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist
in writing.

Or for that matter, how many posters to
these lists write their messages as single long paragraphs?  These
types of errors negatively impact what others' think of them,
particularly if those others do not use a screen reader to access
their world.

Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that
is truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are
going to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that
includes written communication, we must learn to write in a way that
is meant to be read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.

This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability
to hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a
website through a screen reader is simply not enough.

Joseph

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some
thought in about reading and literacy.
>
>First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting
reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?
>
>I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>
>First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the
discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles,
magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.
>
>By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text to
speech.
>
>I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but
not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell properly.
I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not indicative of, or a
prerequisit for literacy.
>
>I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best
speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>
>Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she
or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.
>
>I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages
in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without
braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and
with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small fraction
of the material.
>
>A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than the
passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate person is
by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is better
informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array of topics.
To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on topics of
interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic for a month,
then moving on to something else.
>
>So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we
tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time to
read about religion, and so fourth.
>
>I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much
time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to
being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken media,
I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy skills.
>
>Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see
that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an
electronic file with my text to speech features?
>
>What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy
promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>
>Antonio Guimaraes
>Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
>Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gm
ail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman%40ualberta.
ca



From lindsay3.14 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 06:01:42 2009
From: lindsay3.14 at gmail.com (Lindsay Yazzolino)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:01:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090217002947.GC57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <805832C59CEA4AB39509DF11AD6E228A@lyndsay1f2138a>

Hi Antonio and List,



I agree wholeheartedly with what Joseph has said regarding this topic. I 
definitely draw a distinction between literacy (the ability to read and 
write) and being informed, and believe that, with the widespread use of 
text-to-speech and other auditory means of conveying printed information, 
the former is rapidly becoming far less of a challenge to achieving the 
latter. Although I would not be surprised if such audio materials help to 
increase literacy to some extent, I firmly believe that, for those of us who 
cannot easily access printed materials, we must be able to know Braille and 
read it fluently if we are to achieve our full potential as far as literacy 
is concerned. I must disagree with the idea that understanding spoken 
language is a useful criterion for achieving literacy. The truth is that 
spoken and written language are in some ways very different. As I learned 
the first week in my introductory linguistics course, every person (with the 
possible exception of those with certain cognitive impairments affecting 
language) naturally and effortlessly acquires spoken language regardless of 
his/her ability to read, and the way we speak is not always reflected in our 
writing. This is where I believe that audio materials often fall short, and 
good Braille skills are essential. Now, I realize that, audio books, 
newspapers, magazines, etc. are usually read verbatim and that they 
therefore provide the same content that we would otherwise be reading in 
Braille or print. In listening to them, however, it is difficult, if not 
impossible, to pick up on spelling, grammar, and other written conventions 
which are crucial to polished writing. The truth is that, in the world of 
writing, we are judged just as much by our use of proper spelling and 
grammar as we are by our ability to express whatever it is that we are 
trying to say, and I therefore believe that both of these factors are 
important in assessing one's literacy. I am the first to admit that I am 
somewhat of a spelling and grammar snob, and often find myself making 
(sometimes, but not always incorrect) judgments about a person's 
intelligence based on his/her writing. I have certainly seen plenty of posts 
on this list by people who I would consider intelligent, but not necessarily 
the most literate (I expect that many of these posters are probably not 
efficient Braille readers), and must therefore stress that intelligence and 
literacy are not necessarily the same thing! I have also found from my own 
experiences correcting my schoolwork and other writing using a screen reader 
that it is easy to overlook certain errors which may be acceptable in 
everyday speech, but not necessarily in writing. Fortunately, I have been an 
avid Braille reader since childhood, and am usually able to notice and 
correct such errors using my Braille display.



All this being said, I find myself using synthesized speech considerably 
more often than I use Braille, although in many ways I still prefer the 
experience of reading Braille and feel that I don't retain information as 
well when using speech. I consider myself a relatively fast Braille reader, 
but still find it more efficient to accomplish certain tasks such as 
checking e-mail, surfing the net, and reading textbooks using a screen 
reader. I sometimes regret that I don't use Braille more often, but know 
that It would literally be impossible to get most things done if this were 
the case.



I must also add that I view literacy as a continuum, and don't believe that 
anyone, even the most avid readers and eloquent writers, is ever completely 
literate. Literacy is a process which spans a lifetime, and we learn more 
about our written language every day, whether or not we realize it.



Thanks, Antonio, for posting this topic! I certainly find it interesting, 
and look forward to reading (or perhaps I should say "listening?") to what 
others have to say!



Lindsay


Lindsay Yazzolino
Lindsay3.14 at gmail.com
Follow me on Twitter! Username: Pi3_14
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice


> Antonio,
>
> I would argue that being literate and being informed are two distinct and 
> separate things.  I know many people who are literate and yet blissfully 
> unaware of a great many things.
>
> Contrarily, I know a few people who seem to be pretty well informed, and 
> yet I would question their literacy.  You've encountered some of them on 
> these NFB lists, actually--but I know others who are sighted whose 
> literacy I also question.
>
> Literacy to my mind connotes both the ability to read and the ability to 
> write.  While it is true that reading can take many forms, those forms of 
> reading that involve the spoken word do not generally assist in writing.
>
> Consider, how many very intelligent people on these lists use spellings 
> indicative of working almost entirely with speech rather than access to 
> the written word in a way that includes some form of letter-sound 
> correspondence.  Or for that matter, how many posters to these lists write 
> their messages as single long paragraphs?  These types of errors 
> negatively impact what others' think of them, particularly if those others 
> do not use a screen reader to access their world.
>
> Some of the people I'm thinking of are undeniably brilliant, so that is 
> truly a shame.  The sighted world judges by appearance.  If we are going 
> to compete on equal terms in the sighted world in any way that includes 
> written communication, we must learn to write in a way that is meant to be 
> read with the eye, rather than heard with the ear.
>
> This to me is why literacy is more than just reading and the ability to 
> hear and understand an audio book or access the contents of a website 
> through a screen reader is simply not enough.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 06:32:56PM -0500, Antonio M. Guimaraes wrote:
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw some 
>>thought in about reading and literacy.
>>
>>First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is getting 
>>reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter the method?
>>
>>I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>>First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the 
>>discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, articles, 
>>magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.
>>
>>By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an text 
>>to speech.
>>I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, but 
>>not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell 
>>properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not 
>>indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>>I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best 
>>speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.
>>Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though she 
>>or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.
>>
>>I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs messages 
>>in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, and without 
>>braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these mailings, and 
>>with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to read a small 
>>fraction of the material.
>>
>>A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than 
>>the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate 
>>person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he is 
>>better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider array 
>>of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with books on 
>>topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about one topic 
>>for a month, then moving on to something else.
>>
>>So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we 
>>tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the time 
>>to read about religion, and so fourth.
>>
>>I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as much 
>>time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the only way to 
>>being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or in spoken 
>>media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good literacy 
>>skills.
>>
>>Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you see 
>>that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an 
>>electronic file with my text to speech features?
>>
>>What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy 
>>promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>>
>>Antonio Guimaraes
>>Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
>>http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, 
>>America's Online Charity Shopping Mall 
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lindsay3.14%40gmail.com
> 



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Tue Feb 17 06:26:06 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 00:26:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid
	carproblemforblind people
References: <8AA63FD1264E42C4BD0DE55C25EA09A0@D3ZCJ891><008001c9909f$b0b03eb0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<C626B6DA59FE44E1834DBCF42A0D27BD@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <001b01c990c8$9e96c630$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Nicole and listers,

    It happened again.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid 
carproblemforblind people


Sorry, not sure what my computer did.
Thursday, June 5, 2008
Stanford grad students solve quiet hybrid car problem for blind people


In 2007 the National Federation of the Blind reported that hybrid cars,
because they make little noise at slower speeds, posed a hazard to blind
pedestrians


"I'm used to being able to get sound cues from my environment and negotiate
accordingly. I hadn't imagined there was anything I really wouldn't be able
to hear," said Deborah Kent Stein, chairwoman of the National Federation of
the Blind's Committee on Automotive and Pedestrian Safety. "We did a test,
and I discovered, to my great dismay, that I couldn't hear it."


Now two Stanford University graduate students have solved that problem by
creating a soft, high-pitch hum that can be heard when the silent electric
motor of the hybrid is engaged.


Everett Meyer, co-founder of Enhanced Vehicle Acoustics, who will graduate
next week with an M.D./Ph.D. degree in immunology, and fellow founder Bryan
Bai, who also will graduate next week with a Ph.D. in electrical
engineering, say that adding the sound is a public safety issue, especially
for blind people who use their hearing to maneuver.


The Palo Alto Daily News says the California blind community already
supports their invention.


"The specter is that any time you cross a street, you don't know if it's
safe to cross. ... That's a fundamental change that's happened only in the
past few years,'' said Brian Bashin, a member of the California National
Federation of the Blind's Quiet Cars Committee. "In the previous 100 years,
cars have always made enough noise.''


The patent-pending system designed by Meyer and Bai still will be quieter
than most gasoline-engine cars.


"At less than 50 decibels, the sound is practically inaudible inside the
car. But the system externally emits a soft engine noise from four speakers
attached to the vehicle's front and rear," the Daily News reports.


The sound system plugs into the hybrid's computer system and takes less
energy than a car radio.
Posted by BA Haller at 7:42 AM




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 06:56:03 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:56:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] O/T The Nutty Pot
Message-ID: <7AE655876C4049C2B26FDD8FF4575D44@MonkeyPaw>

Hello all,

This has absolutely nothing to do with blindness.  If you're mad, delete and
move on.  It does, however, have everything to do with college students who
may fall ill with the common cold and may want something to help when mamma
isn't around to exercise those time-tested remedies.  Why, I believe even
Mike Freeman may appreciate the vintage nature of this exercise.

What I am about to convey to you is nothing short of absolutely friggin'
gross, but having tried it just last week, I promise you it works.

It's called the Nutty Pot, though I believe its real name is the neti pot.
Either way you say it, I thought it sounded like some toy Harry Potter and
his click must have conjured up.  Regardless, at its most basic, it is a
little kettle you fill up with warm water.  You drop a bag of herbs into the
water much like preparing tea.  Tilt your head sideways, and after inserting
the little spout into one of your nostrils, allow the substance to wash down
your nasal passage.  The substance will roll around behind your face, which
will no doubt bear the silliest of expressions, and damned if the substance
comes trickling out of your other nostril.  If you do it right, it will be a
steady trickle.  You breathe through your mouth, and I am of the opinion
that no matter how well you do it, a drop or two will find their way down
your throat.  Of course it tastes nasty, but then again, if you've made it
that far, there is nothing exactly prim and proper about medicated water in
one way and watery mucus out the other.

So there you have it.  Laugh now, but when your sinuses are full of junk,
I'll let you choose whether you want to be the pot or the kettle.

Amused,

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie



From KZakhnini at nfb.org  Tue Feb 17 10:35:48 2009
From: KZakhnini at nfb.org (Zakhnini,
	Karen)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:35:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Youth Slam
Message-ID: <auto-000086199429@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Invent new things, learn more about sports, perform astronomy, 
examine new technology, learn about engineering, solve crimes like on 
CSI, design solutions for the environment, meet new friends from all 
over the United States, play goal ball, watch movies, dance, make 
podcasts, meet blind role models, and experience many other 
adventures at the NFB Youth Slam.

 From July 26-August 1, 2009, two hundred blind and low vision high 
school students will stay at the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />University of 
Maryland, College Park, to be mentored by blind role models during 
fun and challenging activities meant to build confidence, expand 
leadership and advocacy skills, and increase science literacy. 
Participants will also attend various social events as well as 
workshops on topics such as leadership, career preparation, and 
advocacy. The NFB Youth Slam will culminate in an inspiring rally in 
Washington DC!  But you must act now!  The deadline for applications 
is March 1!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = 
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Those interested in participating as students or mentors should 
complete an application by March 1, 2009.  After an initial screening 
process, eligible students will be accepted into the program through 
random selection. Students and mentors need not have a strong 
interest in science, technology, engineering, or math (STEM) in order 
to participate, enjoy, and benefit from this academy.  Don't miss out 
on this amazing opportunity!!!

  If you are interested in being a student or mentor participant or 
if you'd like to learn more about the NFB Youth Slam visit 
<http://www.blindscience.org/ncbys/youth_slam.asp>http://www.blindscience.org/ncbys/youth_slam.asp. 


Send questions about the NFB Youth Slam to 
<mailto:youthslam at nfb.org>youthslam at nfb.org.

Sincerely,
Karen C. Zakhnini
Education Project Manager
Jernigan Institute
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND

Phone: (410) 659-9314, ext. 2293
Fax: (410) 659-5129

Support Braille literacy and empowering programs by sponsoring me in 
the Motor City March for Independence!  Visit 
<http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?px=1003222&pg=personal&fr_id=1050>http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?px=1003222&pg=personal&fr_id=1050



From qmsingleton at comcast.net  Tue Feb 17 10:44:07 2009
From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:44:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo Announcement,
 Jim McCarthy  Interview
Message-ID: <auto-000086199756@mailfront1.g2host.com>

The next "Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo" live internet radio show is 
scheduled for February 18, 2009 at 8:00 PM EST.

  Mr. Ruffalo will be interviewing director of governmental affairs 
for the National Federation of the Blind, James McCarthy.

A brief summary of this year's Washington Seminar, what listeners 
could be doing

to assist in legislative initiatives presently, and advisement 
concerning how to

stay informed with legislative issues year round are topics that will 
be discussed on the evening's show.

I invite you to visit 
<http://www.thruoureyes.org/>www.thruoureyes.org or to  hear the 
program live via telephone dial 201 793 9022 with the access code:

2400484.




From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Tue Feb 17 11:09:13 2009
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 05:09:13 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] O/T The Nutty Pot
References: <7AE655876C4049C2B26FDD8FF4575D44@MonkeyPaw>
Message-ID: <230A57502EEC4733B6FACD333E8F6304@davee984e49f02>

Joe, you're right... Freggin disgusting... I'll stick to my vix if I want an 
Ole fassion treatment.


Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 12:56 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] O/T The Nutty Pot


> Hello all,
>
> This has absolutely nothing to do with blindness.  If you're mad, delete 
> and
> move on.  It does, however, have everything to do with college students 
> who
> may fall ill with the common cold and may want something to help when 
> mamma
> isn't around to exercise those time-tested remedies.  Why, I believe even
> Mike Freeman may appreciate the vintage nature of this exercise.
>
> What I am about to convey to you is nothing short of absolutely friggin'
> gross, but having tried it just last week, I promise you it works.
>
> It's called the Nutty Pot, though I believe its real name is the neti pot.
> Either way you say it, I thought it sounded like some toy Harry Potter and
> his click must have conjured up.  Regardless, at its most basic, it is a
> little kettle you fill up with warm water.  You drop a bag of herbs into 
> the
> water much like preparing tea.  Tilt your head sideways, and after 
> inserting
> the little spout into one of your nostrils, allow the substance to wash 
> down
> your nasal passage.  The substance will roll around behind your face, 
> which
> will no doubt bear the silliest of expressions, and damned if the 
> substance
> comes trickling out of your other nostril.  If you do it right, it will be 
> a
> steady trickle.  You breathe through your mouth, and I am of the opinion
> that no matter how well you do it, a drop or two will find their way down
> your throat.  Of course it tastes nasty, but then again, if you've made it
> that far, there is nothing exactly prim and proper about medicated water 
> in
> one way and watery mucus out the other.
>
> So there you have it.  Laugh now, but when your sinuses are full of junk,
> I'll let you choose whether you want to be the pot or the kettle.
>
> Amused,
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James 
> M.
> Barrie
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net 



From dwebster125 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 19:32:27 2009
From: dwebster125 at gmail.com (Dave Webster)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:32:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is Back To Party Hard On Tonight's
	Djd Invasion
In-Reply-To: <644001193.663791234730040613.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
References: <644001193.663791234730040613.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <D9E10F8BCF3C42C08FD6BD34BDE31F7B@DavidWebsterPC>

Hey aimee this is DAve.  Remember we talked when I was at lions world.  I'mf 
rom California.  I had your msn address for your instant messenger but I 
just recently got a new desktop and lost yourmsn address.  What is it and 
I'll put you on my contact list.  Do you have an aol as well?  thanks.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Amy Sabo" <amylsabo at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:34 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is Back To Party Hard On Tonight's 
Djd Invasion

> hello david,
>
> thanks as always for posting this announcement about the show for tonight 
> to the lists and all! i will be of course listening and giving my 2 cents 
> worth and all during the show! this sounds like this will be the bomb of 
> all shows tonight and, i cannot wait to hear it.
>
> thanks again and i will talk to you soon my dear...
>
>
> hugs always,
> from amy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: David Dunphy
>
> To: winamp4theblind at freelists.org, announce at acbradio.org, 
> friends at acbradio.org, nabs at acb.org, National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing list
>
> Sent: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:42:39 +0000 (UTC)
>
> Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Is Back To Party Hard On Tonight's Djd 
> Invasion
>
>
>
> Hello To All!
>
> The Djd Invasion returns to ACB Radio Interactive this evening from 6 to 9 
> PM eastern (that's 5 to 8 PM central time) with a great program featuring:
>
> Songs from the pop, rock and country genres of music
>
> Find out what happens when Nirvana, ACDC, Def Leppard, Guns N Roses, and 
> Metallica get together
>
> And for the first time in awhile, I'll be delivering the idiot of the week 
> award
>
> All this plus your requests by email/msn messenger at the address
>
> request at acbradio.org
>
> by aol instant messenger at the address
>
> djdrocks
>
> or when I'm not playing a song, feel free to pick up the phone and give 
> the show a call at
>
> 1-516-874-5071
>
> or just skype me at
>
> thedjdinvasion
>
> This should be an upbeat and fun show tonight, so to listen at any time 
> between 6 and 9 PM eastern, (5 and 8 PM central) save this email, and at 
> the above mentioned time, go to
>
> http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html
>
> to be connected to the program live!
>
> I hope to see you all there!
>
> Best regards,
>
> David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion
>
> http://www.thedjdinvasion.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> nabs-l mailing list
>
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dwebster125%40gmail.com 



From freespirit328 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 00:37:28 2009
From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:37:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
Message-ID: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway>

Hi all,

It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but I thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll Center.

I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would have never learned had I not gone at all.

Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend, so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.

Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it successfully. I learn routs very quickly.

I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.

The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. I was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so it's not too bad.

Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.

Jen


Shop my AVON online store
http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com

Get healthy!
http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com

Contact me:

Jennifer Aberdeen
PO Box 1184
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-762-3258 (home)
401-644-5607 (cell)
freespirit328 at gmail.com
SKYPE: J.Aberdeen

From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 00:51:33 2009
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:51:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
References: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway>
Message-ID: <5BB7DFE1572845CDB59FF9B26C455539@Dezman>

Jennifer,
Congrads on your completing your independence training.

Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com>
To: "NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 6:37 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


> Hi all,
>
> It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but I 
> thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll 
> Center.
>
> I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good 
> for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would have 
> never learned had I not gone at all.
>
> Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a 
> gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend, 
> so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an 
> induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a 
> table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.
>
> Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not 
> realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the 
> train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did 
> learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to 
> another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the 
> buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some 
> friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it 
> successfully. I learn routs very quickly.
>
> I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how 
> to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I 
> know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.
>
> The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. I 
> was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so 
> it's not too bad.
>
> Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do 
> it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.
>
> Jen
>
>
> Shop my AVON online store
> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com
>
> Get healthy!
> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com
>
> Contact me:
>
> Jennifer Aberdeen
> PO Box 1184
> Woonsocket, RI 02895
> 401-762-3258 (home)
> 401-644-5607 (cell)
> freespirit328 at gmail.com
> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
> 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Feb 18 02:23:36 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:23:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
Message-ID: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>

One of the things that has always interested me is whether people have to go to resources and training or the resources and training come to them. Of course, some of us do not really have much of a choice, depending on what is available.  Just out of curiosity:
1. Did you go to:
a. a school for the blind for most of your education
b. a public school for most of your education
c. a mixture of the two

If you could do it over again, which would you prefer?

2. Same question for mobility training

3. Same question for life skills (cooking, cleaning, etc)

From cassonw at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 03:34:28 2009
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:34:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
In-Reply-To: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <26d2dfeb0902171934r2e281481s52d4731c5aa6331a@mail.gmail.com>

1:b
2:c
3:a
all my education was through public schools.  I did some mobility training
through the school system though most of it was through the training center
similar to an NFB training center.  Life skills i learned from my parents
and the training center.
Bill

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini <
ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> One of the things that has always interested me is whether people have to
> go to resources and training or the resources and training come to them. Of
> course, some of us do not really have much of a choice, depending on what is
> available.  Just out of curiosity:
> 1. Did you go to:
> a. a school for the blind for most of your education
> b. a public school for most of your education
> c. a mixture of the two
>
> If you could do it over again, which would you prefer?
>
> 2. Same question for mobility training
>
> 3. Same question for life skills (cooking, cleaning, etc)
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>

From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 03:35:23 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:35:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <000401c99179$ef31f9f0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

I went to public for all of my education.
If I could do it over again I don't think I would.
I had mobility training in school.
Cooking and cleaning I had someone come to my house and I learned how to do 
some things but after high school I went to a center like the nfb centers to 
learn the other important skills i needed.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:23 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It


> One of the things that has always interested me is whether people have to 
> go to resources and training or the resources and training come to them. 
> Of course, some of us do not really have much of a choice, depending on 
> what is available.  Just out of curiosity:
> 1. Did you go to:
> a. a school for the blind for most of your education
> b. a public school for most of your education
> c. a mixture of the two
>
> If you could do it over again, which would you prefer?
>
> 2. Same question for mobility training
>
> 3. Same question for life skills (cooking, cleaning, etc)
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From jess28 at samobile.net  Wed Feb 18 03:40:56 2009
From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica Trask)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:40:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
Message-ID: <20090218034056.26278.72813@p2025330.pubip.peer1.net>

Original message:
> One of the things that has always interested me is whether people have 
> to go to resources and training or the resources and training come to 
> them. Of course, some of us do not really have much of a choice, 
> depending on what is available.  Just out of curiosity:
1. Did you go to:
 b. a public school for all of your education


> If you could do it over again, which would you prefer? No, but, I've 
> also adapted very well to my visual impairment. At the school for the 
> Blind I could have went to if my mom wanted me to I would have been one 
> of the highest functioning visually impaired students there.  Note this 
> the school for the blind  that referee to in the in the Second and 
> Third questions was the one that I would have attended had my mom gone 
> that route after we moved to West Valley City Utah where I finished my 
> last two years of public high school.

 2. Same question for mobility training
Firstly, I had the opportunity to attend a summer camp at the Utah 
School for the Blind in Utah organized at the time by the outreach 
director of the school for the Blind where I first got introduced to 
Orientation and Mobility. That being said I didn't start getting O&M 
training until I was a Sophomore in high school because they didn't 
feel that I really needed it until then. I like to say that it a 
strange way that was like the right of passage for me because it was 
teaching me to be an independent traveler in much the same way that my 
fully-sighted friends were getting their drivers licenses. No, I 
wouldn't have changed this.

 3. Same question for life skills (cooking, cleaning, etc) Once again 
it comes to summer camp that I mentioned in the above answer because 
the way the summer camp was designed was so that that the Blind and 
Visually Impaired students who especially got the outreach services 
during the regular school year. This is where we learned the adaptive 
techniques for cooking and cleaning and many other things. Also, I 
attended when I was 21 years old the General Blindness skills training 
at the Division of Services for the Blind and VIsually Impaired in Salt 
Lake City,Utah. Note this training program is now being run by a fellow 
federationist.

-- 
Jessica Trask
www. samobile.net/users/jess28
Facebook Jessica Trask

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From cnaylor073 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 03:44:04 2009
From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:44:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
In-Reply-To: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <54f02f10902171944o316d8956ncf1fc1db58d6395d@mail.gmail.com>

Well for me when I was between 4 and 5, I went to a headstart program
at the cerebral palsy center.  After that I never went back to school
because back then my parents didn't have resources to put me into a
suitable school.  They didn't know rather to put me in a public school
or if they had a choice of a blind school, they didn't know where.
They also didn't want me to get teased in school either so they were
confused on which schools I should go to.  So when I turned 10, I
learned the basics of braille and mobility at home before I went to
school.  I did learned to cook a little but had a bad experience with
the instructor I had which caused me to terminate her.  The second
school I went too in awhile was a school mixed with people with
various disabilities but I really didn't learn school stuff there,
just stuff that little kids do when they go to school.  Social workers
thought that just because I was blind that I was also mentally
disabled so they put me into this school for a year just to see what
all I could do in terms of following directions.  Fortunately I was
able to prove them wrong because while the other students were slow at
following directions, I was too advanced.  So the next school year
round I was transferred from that school and put into a public school,
but was in special ed classes until I got to high school.  In high
school I was in regular ed, but was a bit behind in catching up with
the other students in terms of note taking and the certain areas I was
weak in like Math and history.  So then came 10th grade and they put
me in resource and there I stayed until my senior year of high school.
 I did better in the resource classes and got all A's and B's.  If I
had to do it all over again I would choose to go into public school.
For cooking, cleaning, and mobility, I did a mixture of both (went to
centers and had training at home).  For ADL if I had to do it over I'd
much rather prefer to go to centers than do it at home.

On 2/17/09, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> One of the things that has always interested me is whether people have to go
> to resources and training or the resources and training come to them. Of
> course, some of us do not really have much of a choice, depending on what is
> available.  Just out of curiosity:
> 1. Did you go to:
> a. a school for the blind for most of your education
> b. a public school for most of your education
> c. a mixture of the two
>
> If you could do it over again, which would you prefer?
>
> 2. Same question for mobility training
>
> 3. Same question for life skills (cooking, cleaning, etc)
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Christina


From iamantonio at cox.net  Wed Feb 18 03:49:55 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:49:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
References: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway>
Message-ID: <4E7BB42B01254D8F96D669A5B6B29AC8@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello Jen,

Thank you for your update. It sounds like the people at the Carroll Center 
were Accomodating, and even resourceful in training you. Now you have some 
of the basics of daily living, and blindness-related techniques.

You are wondering what will be your next step, and I have a few words of 
encouragement.

First, the next steps, and the general direction you give your life is 
exactly that--the direction you, the one who will live it, will decide to go 
towards. There will be challenges, and there will be nay-sayers. People will 
tell you how you can't do this or that because you are in a wheel chair, 
besides being blind, and if blindness weren't enough to limit you, you have 
to contend with not knowing where you are going, and not being able to find 
your way there. But I think you know better, and only you can prove these 
people wrong.

First it might mean you insist on serving the family brekfest on sunday 
morning. Then you might decide you want the responsibility of grocery 
shopping for the entire family. Next you can pick a cleaning chore thought 
to be impossible, and the next thing you know you have the practice, and 
your parent's confidence that you are capable, and willing to venture out on 
your own. This venturing out might happen in concert with a college 
graduation, so that you are trained and employed in your field of choice, 
and have the needed support of your parents for the things you do need help 
with.

When it comes to shopping, you can go on

www.peapod.com

a service I use in Rhode Island and would be willing to teach you. The 
peapod driver will deliver your groceries right to your kitchen counter on 
the day and time you specify. If you need to be familiar with peapod, 
contact me privately, and we can go over it on the phone, or in person. Once 
you learn, you won't want to go back for too much at a brick and morter 
store.

One thing the Carroll Center may not have worked on with you is personal 
confidence, but the NFB centers, as good as they may be, do not have a 
monopoly on confidence and encouragement. I do find that our membership is 
rich in kind encouragement, inspiration, and some times the perverbial 
well-deserved kick in the --- to jumpstart one's motivation. We 
independence-minded, empowerment-guided members have been through, and are 
going through some of the same struggles that the nauvice faces. We've been 
there, and are usually willing to share the wealth. and wealth we have, in 
information, resourcefulness, ingenuity, and more.

Don't hesitate to turn to your blind family for guidance, and your close by 
NFB friends for individualized tips and tricks.

Sincerely yours,

Antonio Guimaraes
Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com>
To: "NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:37 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


> Hi all,
>
> It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but I 
> thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll 
> Center.
>
> I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good 
> for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would have 
> never learned had I not gone at all.
>
> Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a 
> gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend, 
> so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an 
> induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a 
> table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.
>
> Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not 
> realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the 
> train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did 
> learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to 
> another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the 
> buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some 
> friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it 
> successfully. I learn routs very quickly.
>
> I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how 
> to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I 
> know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.
>
> The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. I 
> was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so 
> it's not too bad.
>
> Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do 
> it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.
>
> Jen
>
>
> Shop my AVON online store
> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com
>
> Get healthy!
> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com
>
> Contact me:
>
> Jennifer Aberdeen
> PO Box 1184
> Woonsocket, RI 02895
> 401-762-3258 (home)
> 401-644-5607 (cell)
> freespirit328 at gmail.com
> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From jmatte28 at comcast.net  Wed Feb 18 04:08:40 2009
From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:08:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <4FE08033EC3442C68A32391DE0C17871@homexpuser>

I think you've started up an interesting topic so I wanted to throw my 2 
cents in to the discussion.
I had what I like to refer to as a split sort of education if you will.
Most of my elementary school through high school years I went to the Perkins 
School For The blind for in Watertown Massachusetts.
But during my stint as a 2 year senior I also took some courses at Watertown 
Public High School.
I think in a way I benefited from both.
While I didn't per say walk away from the public high school having really 
made any friends per say I felt by the time my high school years were over 
ready to try a public school setting again.
I use to be in public school from first through about 4th grade but had some 
real educational struggles with the public school system so for many years I 
went to school with blind people which comprise about 90 percent of my 
friends.
I just thought that this was a fascinating discussion so wanted to comment

Regards Jonathan. 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Feb 18 05:13:50 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:13:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
	<4FE08033EC3442C68A32391DE0C17871@homexpuser>
Message-ID: <DB398A16694642B08C01B4F5868BF4DC@D3ZCJ891>

Okay, having heard a few different stories, I will now tell mine, but I 
first want to say that I think that it is sad when parents do not know about 
the resources available or how to proceed.

1. a. I went to public school for all of my education. My mother was an 
advocate for me from the start. Were she got the resources or to whom she 
talked to get the information, I do not know. She was adamant that I would 
have an aide in school, which did happen. I am glad that I attended public 
school. I do not know if all of the opportunities, such as numerous AP 
classes from which to choose, would have been available at a school for the 
blind.  Also, I feel that growing up in and around sighted peers helps 
develop some of the skills that are critical for getting along in a sighted 
world. I do regret not having any blind academic friends near by, though.

2 and 3 are pretty much the same answer as 1. My mobility training started 
in--gosh--it seems like pre-school. The mobility instructors always came to 
my school district, and the last few years of high school, I had a local 
one.  One of the benefits of working in my own tow was that I got to learn 
routes that I knew that I would actually use.

As far as cooking and cleaning, I learned part from good old mom (cheers to 
the mothers) and part from a blind mentor.  It was always interesting to get 
two perspectives on things, the sighted way and the 
tactile/audible/smellable way. I did go to a summer program for life 
skills/job training once. I also attended a kind of college information 
program called DO-IT.

In retrospect, in spite of a few bumps here and there, things went quite 
well, and I do not think that I would change much, except for maybe trying 
to keep one mobility instructor (that was not my fault or something over 
which I or my parents had much control).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It


I think you've started up an interesting topic so I wanted to throw my 2
cents in to the discussion.
I had what I like to refer to as a split sort of education if you will.
Most of my elementary school through high school years I went to the Perkins
School For The blind for in Watertown Massachusetts.
But during my stint as a 2 year senior I also took some courses at Watertown
Public High School.
I think in a way I benefited from both.
While I didn't per say walk away from the public high school having really
made any friends per say I felt by the time my high school years were over
ready to try a public school setting again.
I use to be in public school from first through about 4th grade but had some
real educational struggles with the public school system so for many years I
went to school with blind people which comprise about 90 percent of my
friends.
I just thought that this was a fascinating discussion so wanted to comment

Regards Jonathan.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 05:33:24 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:33:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
In-Reply-To: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway>
References: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway>
Message-ID: <20090218053324.GI57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Jen,

Why is a train station not realistic?

Joseph

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:37:28PM -0500, Jennifer Aberdeen wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but I thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll Center.
>
>I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would have never learned had I not gone at all.
>
>Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend, so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.
>
>Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it successfully. I learn routs very quickly.
>
>I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.
>
>The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. I was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so it's not too bad.
>
>Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.
>
>Jen


From freespirit328 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 06:05:27 2009
From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:05:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
References: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway>
	<20090218053324.GI57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <26B0913E824C4309A6D970CE5D2BDAF8@Gateway>

Hi Joseph,

It is, but most likely I would always be with someone when I used it, so we 
didn't practice that.

It wouldn't be safe for me to go alone because of my neurological disorder 
which makes me respond slightly slower to things. For example, I would know 
when to cross the street, but my brain wouldn't realize it until a few 
seconds after, so my time might not be sufficient enough to cross safely. 
Plus profound hearing loss in one ear and absolutely no experience with 
getting around alone in places where everyone's a stranger...I would have a 
panic attack most defintley.

Jen

Shop my AVON online store
http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com

Get healthy!
http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com

Contact me:

Jennifer Aberdeen
PO Box 1184
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-762-3258 (home)
401-644-5607 (cell)
freespirit328 at gmail.com
SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


> Jen,
>
> Why is a train station not realistic?
>
> Joseph
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:37:28PM -0500, Jennifer Aberdeen wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but I 
>>thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll 
>>Center.
>>
>>I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good 
>>for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would have 
>>never learned had I not gone at all.
>>
>>Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a 
>>gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend, 
>>so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an 
>>induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a 
>>table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.
>>
>>Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not 
>>realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the 
>>train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did 
>>learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to 
>>another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the 
>>buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some 
>>friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it 
>>successfully. I learn routs very quickly.
>>
>>I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how 
>>to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I 
>>know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.
>>
>>The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. I 
>>was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so 
>>it's not too bad.
>>
>>Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do 
>>it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.
>>
>>Jen
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com 



From freespirit328 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 06:11:32 2009
From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:11:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891><4FE08033EC3442C68A32391DE0C17871@homexpuser>
	<DB398A16694642B08C01B4F5868BF4DC@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <D568FAEFC26845F9B0AD303901156E2B@Gateway>

1. I attended public school and was in regular education classes. During 
elementary school I was totally independent, only having resource a couple 
days a week, but in middle and high school I had a teacher's assistant with 
me all day. I didn't socialize with other students, just kept up with my 
grades.

2. I didn't have mobility training in school. I wasn't totally blind in both 
eyes at the time, so they didn't think I needed it. Even now I don't have 
mobility training on a regular basis.

3. I only took a cooking class my senior year in high school. It wasn't much 
adapted for me though, so I didn't learn much. I didn't learn anything 
really about cooking until recently.


Shop my AVON online store
http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com

Get healthy!
http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com

Contact me:

Jennifer Aberdeen
PO Box 1184
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-762-3258 (home)
401-644-5607 (cell)
freespirit328 at gmail.com
SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It


> Okay, having heard a few different stories, I will now tell mine, but I
> first want to say that I think that it is sad when parents do not know 
> about
> the resources available or how to proceed.
>
> 1. a. I went to public school for all of my education. My mother was an
> advocate for me from the start. Were she got the resources or to whom she
> talked to get the information, I do not know. She was adamant that I would
> have an aide in school, which did happen. I am glad that I attended public
> school. I do not know if all of the opportunities, such as numerous AP
> classes from which to choose, would have been available at a school for 
> the
> blind.  Also, I feel that growing up in and around sighted peers helps
> develop some of the skills that are critical for getting along in a 
> sighted
> world. I do regret not having any blind academic friends near by, though.
>
> 2 and 3 are pretty much the same answer as 1. My mobility training started
> in--gosh--it seems like pre-school. The mobility instructors always came 
> to
> my school district, and the last few years of high school, I had a local
> one.  One of the benefits of working in my own tow was that I got to learn
> routes that I knew that I would actually use.
>
> As far as cooking and cleaning, I learned part from good old mom (cheers 
> to
> the mothers) and part from a blind mentor.  It was always interesting to 
> get
> two perspectives on things, the sighted way and the
> tactile/audible/smellable way. I did go to a summer program for life
> skills/job training once. I also attended a kind of college information
> program called DO-IT.
>
> In retrospect, in spite of a few bumps here and there, things went quite
> well, and I do not think that I would change much, except for maybe trying
> to keep one mobility instructor (that was not my fault or something over
> which I or my parents had much control).
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "jonathan matte" <jmatte28 at comcast.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
>
>
> I think you've started up an interesting topic so I wanted to throw my 2
> cents in to the discussion.
> I had what I like to refer to as a split sort of education if you will.
> Most of my elementary school through high school years I went to the 
> Perkins
> School For The blind for in Watertown Massachusetts.
> But during my stint as a 2 year senior I also took some courses at 
> Watertown
> Public High School.
> I think in a way I benefited from both.
> While I didn't per say walk away from the public high school having really
> made any friends per say I felt by the time my high school years were over
> ready to try a public school setting again.
> I use to be in public school from first through about 4th grade but had 
> some
> real educational struggles with the public school system so for many years 
> I
> went to school with blind people which comprise about 90 percent of my
> friends.
> I just thought that this was a fascinating discussion so wanted to comment
>
> Regards Jonathan.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Feb 18 06:16:06 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:16:06 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
References: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway><20090218053324.GI57859@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<26B0913E824C4309A6D970CE5D2BDAF8@Gateway>
Message-ID: <A89FD8CA7AC24F619D8C7A3A0D9384C3@D3ZCJ891>

If you do not mind me asking, are your other disabilities in anyway 
connected to the cause of your blindness?  All of my disabilities, which 
include blindness, hearing loss, and complete loss of smell, are either 
results of my cancer or of the cancer treatment.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


Hi Joseph,

It is, but most likely I would always be with someone when I used it, so we
didn't practice that.

It wouldn't be safe for me to go alone because of my neurological disorder
which makes me respond slightly slower to things. For example, I would know
when to cross the street, but my brain wouldn't realize it until a few
seconds after, so my time might not be sufficient enough to cross safely.
Plus profound hearing loss in one ear and absolutely no experience with
getting around alone in places where everyone's a stranger...I would have a
panic attack most defintley.

Jen

Shop my AVON online store
http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com

Get healthy!
http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com

Contact me:

Jennifer Aberdeen
PO Box 1184
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-762-3258 (home)
401-644-5607 (cell)
freespirit328 at gmail.com
SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


> Jen,
>
> Why is a train station not realistic?
>
> Joseph
>
> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:37:28PM -0500, Jennifer Aberdeen wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but I
>>thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll
>>Center.
>>
>>I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good
>>for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would have
>>never learned had I not gone at all.
>>
>>Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a
>>gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend,
>>so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an
>>induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a
>>table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.
>>
>>Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not
>>realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the
>>train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did
>>learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to
>>another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the
>>buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some
>>friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it
>>successfully. I learn routs very quickly.
>>
>>I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how
>>to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I
>>know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.
>>
>>The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. I
>>was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so
>>it's not too bad.
>>
>>Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do
>>it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.
>>
>>Jen
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From braille at nbpcb.org  Wed Feb 18 10:35:02 2009
From: braille at nbpcb.org (Braille Certification)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:35:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Test Coming to New York, March 15
Message-ID: <auto-000089167781@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Braille Test Coming to New York, March 15



THE NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN

LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB)



As you may be aware, the National Literary Braille Competency Test 
(NLBCT) of the National Library Service (NLS) has been transferred to 
the administration of the National Blindness Professional 
Certification Board (NBPCB). With the NLBCT as its cornerstone, the 
NBPCB has established the National Certification in Literary Braille 
(NCLB), which is a complete professional credential that requires 
recertification on a five year cycle. Individuals who were certified 
with the NLBCT prior to 2006 will need to retest through the NBPCB; 
however, the initial fee may be waived if the applicant can show 
proof of original NLBCT credential.



The NCLB is currently the only nationally recognized certification in 
literary Braille. The examination has not been substantially changed 
from its earlier version once administered by the NLS, however a five 
year recertification requirement has been instituted in the interest 
of maintaining high standards. The exam is not aimed at transcribers. 
Rather, it is a valid test of a person's ability to competently read, 
write, and understand contracted, literary Braille, and is being 
targeted to all individuals who teach Braille professionally, and/or 
those seeking to be credentialed in this area.



See the following details for testing in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 
ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />New York:



Date:

Sunday, March 15, 2009

Time:

8:00am-5:00pm (Doors close 8:30am)

Location:

Lighthouse International

(6th Floor Studio/Jr. Ballroom)

111 East 59th Street

New York, NY 10022-1202

Cost:

$250 combined application/testing fee

Deadline:

Sunday, March 1, 2009



Subsequent NCLB examinations will be convened wherever an appropriate 
venue can be procured, and sufficient applicant numbers make it 
possible. Please contact the NBPCB for more details.



To apply online go to:

<http://www.nbpcb.org/nclb/application/>www.nbpcb.org/nclb/application/



or to download the NCLB Candidate Guidelines please visit:

<http://www.nbpcb.org/pages/downloaddocuments.php/>www.nbpcb.org/pages/downloaddocuments.php/



For additional information please visit the NBPCB website at: 
<http://www.nbpcb.org/>www.nbpcb.org, call the NBPCB office at (318) 
257-4554, or contact Louise Walch, NBPCB Coordinator, at: 
<http://mail.nbpcb.org/src/compose.php?send_to=braille%40nbpcb.org>braille at nbpcb.org.

-------------- next part --------------
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From freespirit328 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 14:00:04 2009
From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:00:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
References: <A8C83CE816D74D6A977D146A67280721@Gateway><20090218053324.GI57859@yumi.bluecherry.net><26B0913E824C4309A6D970CE5D2BDAF8@Gateway>
	<A89FD8CA7AC24F619D8C7A3A0D9384C3@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <28BFBAAA6F1F4A1F87F99AC1FE06DC48@Gateway>

Hi Nicole,

Yes, in a sense...it's kindof confusing. My neurological disorder accurred 
first, then the delayed response, vision loss, hearing loss,and ability to 
walk.

Jen

Shop my AVON online store
http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com

Get healthy!
http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com

Contact me:

Jennifer Aberdeen
PO Box 1184
Woonsocket, RI 02895
401-762-3258 (home)
401-644-5607 (cell)
freespirit328 at gmail.com
SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 1:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


> If you do not mind me asking, are your other disabilities in anyway
> connected to the cause of your blindness?  All of my disabilities, which
> include blindness, hearing loss, and complete loss of smell, are either
> results of my cancer or of the cancer treatment.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
>
>
> Hi Joseph,
>
> It is, but most likely I would always be with someone when I used it, so 
> we
> didn't practice that.
>
> It wouldn't be safe for me to go alone because of my neurological disorder
> which makes me respond slightly slower to things. For example, I would 
> know
> when to cross the street, but my brain wouldn't realize it until a few
> seconds after, so my time might not be sufficient enough to cross safely.
> Plus profound hearing loss in one ear and absolutely no experience with
> getting around alone in places where everyone's a stranger...I would have 
> a
> panic attack most defintley.
>
> Jen
>
> Shop my AVON online store
> http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com
>
> Get healthy!
> http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com
>
> Contact me:
>
> Jennifer Aberdeen
> PO Box 1184
> Woonsocket, RI 02895
> 401-762-3258 (home)
> 401-644-5607 (cell)
> freespirit328 at gmail.com
> SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
>
>
>> Jen,
>>
>> Why is a train station not realistic?
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:37:28PM -0500, Jennifer Aberdeen wrote:
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>It's Jennifer from Rhode Island. I don't write too much on the list, but 
>>>I
>>>thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the Carroll
>>>Center.
>>>
>>>I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just as good
>>>for someone in my situation. I learned a great deal of things I would 
>>>have
>>>never learned had I not gone at all.
>>>
>>>Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment. While I'm still not a
>>>gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals. Food has never been my best friend,
>>>so I eat to live as some might say. I learned how to cook using an
>>>induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can put on a
>>>table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.
>>>
>>>Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were just not
>>>realistic for me. Learning how to go to the train station to take the
>>>train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me. I did
>>>learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one building to
>>>another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of the
>>>buildings like the back of my head. I even went out to eat with some
>>>friends using para transit. It was very stressful for me, but I did it
>>>successfully. I learn routs very quickly.
>>>
>>>I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast. I learned how
>>>to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and stylis. I
>>>know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.
>>>
>>>The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and staff. 
>>>I
>>>was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone there, so
>>>it's not too bad.
>>>
>>>Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston. I wish I could do
>>>it over again. Now I'm home and bored. I don't know what to do next.
>>>
>>>Jen
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com 



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 17:13:09 2009
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 11:13:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A Special Edition Of The Djd Invasion Airs Tonight
Message-ID: <700009837AF6462CAC8A4852C0D3296A@homeuser>

Hello To All!
With my birthday weekend coming up, which means I'm in the mood to have some fun, plus the requests I've gotten to do some shows on my private server, which means we don't have to follow the acb radio interactive guide lines, I've decided to put on a show for all of you tonight!
This show will begin at 8 PM central, which is actually 9 PM eastern this evening.
This show will have somewhat of an older sound to it, with a focus on the 70's, and maybe some 60's and 80's; I'm just not sure yet. And you never know if a new tune might sneak in there or not.
The show will be fun, and you're invited to participate in it!
You can do so by sending messages by email or msn messenger to the address
djdrocks4ever at gmail.com
by aol instant messenger at the address
djdrocks
or when I'm not playing a song and am talking on the air, you are invited to call in live to the show. The phone number you can use is
1-516-874-5071
or you can hit me up on skype if you'd rather not use the phone at the name
thedjdinvasion
This should be a cool show with some nice tunes thrown in that are upbeat and happy in sound, so to listen, save this email, and at 8 PM central time, which is 9 PM eastern, go to
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com/listen.html
to be connected with the program. I hope to see you there!
Best regards,
David, A.K.A Djd, host of The Djd Invasion
http://www.thedjdinvasion.com

From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Feb 18 19:22:24 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:22:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Through Our Eyes Radio Program Interview  Change
Message-ID: <auto-000086438627@mailfront1.g2host.com>

We previously announced that Joe Ruffalo of Through Our Eyes Radio 
would be interviewing NFB's Legislative Director Jim McCarthy on 
Wednesday February 18th.  Unfortunately, due to technical 
malfunctions it is necessary to reschedule this interview.  We will 
place an appropriate announcement on NFBNET.ORG lists when we know 
when the rescheduled interview will take place.

We and Through Our Eyes Radio apologize for any inconvenience that 
this may cause you.

David Andrews



David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Wed Feb 18 20:11:49 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
Message-ID: <20090218201149.18889.27322@p2025330.pubip.peer1.net>

Hi.

Here is my measuring stick in regards to literacy. Is a sighted person 
deemed literate if she or he only reads via speech? In other words, is 
a sighted person literate if he or she doesn't know how to read print? 
I personally would say no. I would further add that my feelings on 
literacy are easily translated to Braille and its role in a blind 
person's tool kit. Does that mean that using audio material is bad? No. 
Of course not. The sighted are beginning to understand the value of 
audio access in their daily lives just as we have. And for us, audio 
has been a large part to our access to material since Braille has been 
in such short supply in comparison to print. Since we now have 
unprecedented access to electronic material, it's up to the reader as 
to which should be used: Braille or audio. increasingly, the same 
choice is being granted to the sighted reader.  in short, i don't think 
using audio is selling out. However, I do believe that it's easier to 
be lazy and not read when reading for oneself might be the best option, 
and that goes for anyone blind or sighted. What troubles me most about 
the literacy debate for the blind is that audio access is being used as 
an excuse not to teach or learn Braille. That to me, is the real 
travesty. It sounds to me like you use Braille. If you're frustrated 
with your reading speed, you're certainly welcome to improve it just as 
is anyone (blind or sighted). The Braille literacy campeign isn't about 
restricting access to a person's chosen reading methods. It's about 
making sure that Braille isn't denied to students based on the ease of 
access to audio materials or visual acuity or any other reason. When a 
population's literacy rate is as low as ours, there's good reason to 
man the baracades and get busy fighting for the right to read. After 
all, this matter of choice is a non-issue if a person has no access to 
Braille, right?


Original message:
> Hello all,

> I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to throw 
> some thought in about reading and literacy.

> First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is 
> getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter 
> the method?

> I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.

> First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the 
> discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books, 
> articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are conveyed.

> By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an 
> text to speech.

> I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for literacy, 
> but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not learn to spell 
> properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect spelling is not 
> indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.

> I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best 
> speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my writing.

> Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even though 
> she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable communicator.

> I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs 
> messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two hours, 
> and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to get at these 
> mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would only be able to 
> read a small fraction of the material.

> A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world than 
> the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the literate 
> person is by some measures a more interesting person because she or he 
> is better informed, and can discuss with some authority about a wider 
> array of topics. To this effect, I have set out a reading list with 
> books on topics of interest to me. I limmited myself to learning about 
> one topic for a month, then moving on to something else.

> So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we 
> tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the 
> time to read about religion, and so fourth.

> I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting as 
> much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is the 
> only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on Kurzweil, or 
> in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or practicing good 
> literacy skills.

> Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do you 
> see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by reading an 
> electronic file with my text to speech features?

> What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy 
> promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.

> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From hfurney at bgsu.edu  Wed Feb 18 20:13:02 2009
From: hfurney at bgsu.edu (Hannah G Furney)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:13:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pac Mate or Voice Note
Message-ID: <023FF489B0008B4D9E6729B9F01EB224363C945DC6@MAIL6.bgsu.edu>

i was wonderinf if anyone had a Pac Mate or a Voice note that they are not usig anymore.  I need one so I can take notes in class or other events.  I need one with a qweetry keybard on it.    If you could please email me at hfurney at bgsu.edu


Hannah Furney
Cru
Phi Mu Fraternity
Community Service Chair-2009

From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Wed Feb 18 20:51:53 2009
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 14:51:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: GPS upgrade, 50% discount for a limited time
Message-ID: <5767B14F3B52471AAABC31E2B89D6C25@davee984e49f02>




Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kim Casey" <kim at senderogroup.com>
To: <Kim at senderogroup.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 9:26 AM
Subject: GPS upgrade, 50% discount for a limited time


> Hello Sendero GPS users,
>
> For those of you who have not taken advantage of the latest BrailleNote 
> GPS version 5, here is a one time offer for a super discount. To read 
> about all the improvements in version 5, go to 
> <http://senderogroup.com/v50changes.htm>http://senderogroup.com/v50changes.htm
>
> 1. Purchase a BrailleNote GPS upgrade by the end of February 2009 and 
> receive 50% off. This would be a $75 purchase instead of the normal $149 
> upgrade charge to upgrade from version 4.2. The same applies to all other 
> GPS version upgrades during this short window of opportunity.
>
> 2. Upgrade by the end of March 2009 and receive a 25% discount on 
> upgrades. The sooner you commit, the better the price.
>
> 3. For those wishing to purchase an SMA for two future upgrades, normally 
> $249, we will extend the same offer, 50% by the end of February and 25% 
> off by the end of March.
>
>
>
> Sendero Group  - "The GPS company:" Featuring Sendero GPS on the 
> BrailleNote as well as Sense Nav and the new Mobile Geo for Windows Mobile 
> devices. Also distributing Trekker, Victor Stream, KNFB Mobile Reader, 
> Talks, Mobile Speak, Tiger embossers, Miniguide and ID Mate
>
> Sendero Group, LLC
> 429 F Street
> Davis, CA 95616
> (888) 757-6810 toll free
> (530) 757-6800
> (530) 757-6830 Fax
> 



From enews at codefactory.info  Thu Feb 19 03:20:59 2009
From: enews at codefactory.info (Code Factory_eNews)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:20:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Mobile Speak Smartphone and Mobile Speak Pocket V2.1
Message-ID: <auto-000089331333@mailfront2.g2host.com>


Logo Code Factory


Caroline Ragot - Marketing Director
<mailto:marketing at codefactory.es>marketing at codefactory.es

Mobile Speak Smartphone & Pocket V2.1


Code Factory Releases V2.1 of Mobile Speak Smartphone and Mobile Speak Pocket




Support for more than 15 new devices, full support for Windows Mobile 
6.1, support for the new Bookshare format and many more new features.


Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, February 18, 2009

In the last few years the number of users of Code Factory's screen 
readers for Windows Mobile devices has been skyrocketing. Code 
Factory is currently the only company developing screen readers for 
more than one mobile operating system: Symbian, Windows Mobile and 
Blackberry from RIM. Mobile Speak Smartphone and Mobile Speak Pocket 
are the two versions of Code Factory's screen reader available for 
Windows Mobile devices.

One of the great features unique to Mobile Speak Smartphone and 
Mobile Speak Pocket is the User Centered Licensing System released 
more than a year ago, which allows users to deactivate their license 
from a device and reactivate it in a new supported device without any 
additional cost.  This new licensing system has encouraged our 
customers to frequently switch from one device to another; that is 
why our development team has worked very hard to support more than 15 
new smartphones and Pocket PCs. The other big competitive advantage 
of choosing a Windows Mobile Code Factory screen reader is the 
opportunity to experience traveling and walking around with Mobile 
Geo, Code Factory's award-winning GPS application.  V2.1 of Mobile 
Speak Smartphone and Mobile Speak Pocket will be compatible with V1.5 
of Mobile Geo, planed to be released by March 2009.


NEW DEVICES supported by V2.1

Version 2.1.205 of Mobile Speak Smartphone supports five new smartphones:
    * Samsung SGH-i200,
    * Palm Treo 500,
    * Palm Treo 500V from Vodafone,
    * HTC S640 and
    * HTC S740.

Version 2.1.205 of Mobile Speak Pocket supports eleven new Pocket PCs:
    * AT&T Samsung Epix,
    * HP iPAQ 910 (Business Messenger),
    * Samsung SCH-i760 from Verizon Wireless,
    * HP iPAQ 600 Business Navigator,
    * Sprint HTC Touch Pro,
    * AT&T HTC Fuze,
    * Verizon xv6850 Touch Pro,
    * Sprint HTC Touch Diamond,
    * Palm Treo 800W from Sprint,
    * Palm Treo Pro, and
    * Asus P750.



HIGHLIGHTED FEATURES of V2.1




  Both Mobile Speak Smartphone and Mobile Speak Pocket V2.1.205 include:

    * Full support for Windows Mobile 6.1.

    * Improvements to Code Factory's built-in Braille reader 
application, also called BRF reader:
        * Support for the new Bookshare format. To learn more about 
the new Bookshare library visit 
<http://www.benetech.org/about/press_releases/PR_2009-01-26_Bookshare.shtml>http://www.benetech.org/about/press_releases/PR_2009-01-26_Bookshare.shtml.
        * Added a Find function that lets you enter a search string 
using computer Braille or literary (grade 1 or 2) Braille.
        * New options for adding bookmarks and jumping to a selected bookmark.
        * With Mobile Speak Pocket, pressing DoubleTap4 in a BRF file 
will now close it.
        * In Mobile Speak Smartphone as well as Mobile Speak Pocket, 
you can access the Braille Reader through a dedicated icon located in 
the Mobile Speak control panel.
        * To learn more about the BRF Reader visit 
<http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=241>http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=241. 

    * New upgrade installation process

This new upgrade installation process allows the user to install a 
new build (or reinstall the same one that is already on the device), 
without first uninstalling Mobile Speak and its components if they 
are already running on the device. There is no need to stop Mobile 
Speak/Magnifier to do this.

    * Enhanced support for Office OneNote

You can install Office OneNote on your device if you connect it to a 
computer with Microsoft Office 2007. Just launch OneNote 2007 on your 
PC when the device is already connected via ActiveSync or Windows 
Mobile Device Center, and you will be prompted to install OneNote 
Mobile. Mobile Speak Pocket and Mobile Speak Smarpthone now read the 
list of saved OneNote files, read all menu and toolbar option names 
rather than the bitmap number for some, and inform you if there is a 
sound clip inserted in the note.


V2.1.205 also features new settings and commands for both Mobile 
Speak Smartphone and Mobile Speak Pocket

    * New settings and commands for Mobile Speak Smartphone
        * Two new commands for the Default command layout: Home+4 
will open the Start menu wherever you are. Home+Long4 will return 
focus to the Today screen.

        * The user dictionary has been redesigned. It can be opened 
by pressing Home+4 in the Settings command layout. It is now possible 
to navigate the list of pronunciation entries using the Left/Right 
arrow keys; pressing the left softkey will now close this dialog and 
automatically save your new entries and changes to existing ones; and 
the right softkey will now open the menu of options, including 
"Cancel" which will let you exit the user dictionary without saving 
any entries or modifications.

        * Supported cell editing in Excel Mobile: After opening the 
Excel file, select "Edit mode" from the menu opened by the right 
softkey. Navigate to the cell you wish to edit, and select "Cell 
text" from the "Edit" sub-menu in the right softkey menu. This should 
place you in an edit field where you can use the left and right arrow 
keys to position the cursor at the point where you wish to start 
editing. Press the left softkey to save your revision to the cell 
entry, or select "Cancel" from the right softkey menu.

        * New "Character repeat filter" option. You will find this 
option in Control Panel > Modes > Text Processing. This is checked by 
default and so when you have a string of repeated symbols like 20 
dashes, Mobile Speak Smartphone will only say "dash" three times.

        * New help mode: Press Home+Long5 in any layout and in any 
screen to get context-sensitive help. Press the left softkey to close 
this screen. Only available in English.
    * New settings and commands for Mobile Speak Pocket
        * New command for switching between existing command layouts: 
Press Alt+Tab  (Default and Mobile Geo layout, if Mobile Geo is 
installed and running).

        * Easier way to enable and disable response to screen taps 
respectively: Use the commands Alt+Ctrl+Shift+Left and 
Alt+Ctrl+Shift+Right, rather than the touch screen itself.

        * New input method called Touch Keypad: This method is used 
in the same way as the Touch Virtual Keyboard input method, but the 
screen orientation remains in portrait mode. There are two keypad 
types: Numeric and Letters. When this input method is activated, the 
Numeric keypad is selected by default. You switch between keypad 
types by pressing the Mobile Speak Pocket Control key. The Numeric 
keypad has five rows with three keys each. The first four rows are 
similar to a 12-key dial-pad with 1,2,3 in the first row, 4,5,6 in 
the next, 7,8,9 in the third, and *,0,# in the fourth. The bottom row 
has keys for the Left softkey, Backspace key, and Right softkey (from 
left to right). If you wish to long-press a key in the first four 
rows of this keypad, press the MSP Shift key to switch to the 
"Numeric: Long" mode. Pressing the Shift key again will switch you 
back to the mode for short key presses. On the other hand, the 
Letters keypad has seven rows with five keys each. Letters are not 
arranged in QWERTY or any language-dependent keyboard layout. 
Instead, you have the letters 'a' through 'e' in the first row, 'f' 
through 'j' in the second, 'k' through 'o' in the third, 'p' through 
't' in the fourth, and 'u' through 'y' in the fifth. Then the sixth 
row has the following keys: 'z', period, apostrophe, dash, and the 
Symbol key. The last row has the following keys: Space, comma, 
ampersand, forward slash, and Backspace. When you press the Mobile 
Speak Pocket Shift key while the Letters keypad is selected, then you 
switch to the "Uppercase" mode. The first five rows will input the 
uppercase equivalents of the letters from 'a' through 'y'. The sixth 
row has the following keys: 'Z', colon, at sign, underscore, and the 
Symbol key. The last row has the following keys: space, question 
mark, open parenthesis, close parenthesis, and Backspace. To exit the 
Touch Keypad, press the Mobile Speak Pocket Alt key.

To read the full list of new features and improvements made for V2.1, 
visit 
<http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/family_1/product_3/Whats_new_pocketpc.html>http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/family_1/product_3/Whats_new_pocketpc.html 
for Mobile Speak Pocket and
<http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/family_1/product_2/whats_new_smartphone.html>http://www.codefactory.es/descargas/family_1/product_2/whats_new_smartphone.html 
for Mobile Speak Smartphone.

New users are invited to download a free 30-day trial version of 
Mobile Speak Pocket and Mobile Speak Smartphone and discover how 
Mobile Speak can convert an otherwise inaccessible mainstream device 
into an essential communications tool. Users of previous versions of 
Mobile Speak Pocket and Mobile Speak Smartphone are welcome to 
install the V2.1 update free-of-charge and enjoy the latest product 
enhancements. To obtain the download, follow the wizard at 
<http://www.codefactory.es/en/downloads.asp?id=44>http://www.codefactory.es/en/downloads.asp?id=44. 


To read more about Mobile Speak Smartphone, visit 
<http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=36>http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=36. 


To read more about Mobile Speak Pocket, visit 
<http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=98>http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=98. 


To learn more about the other screen readers developed by Code 
Factory, visit 
<http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=16>http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=16. 


To buy Code Factory's software, contact your closest distributor. A 
list is available at: 
<http://www.codefactory.es/en/purchase.asp?id=54>http://www.codefactory.es/en/purchase.asp?id=54. 





  About Code Factory

Founded in 1998 and headquartered in Terrassa/Barcelona, Spain, Code 
Factory is the global leader committed to the development of products 
designed to eliminate barriers to the accessibility of mobile 
technology for the blind and visually impaired. Today, Code Factory 
is the leading provider of screen readers, screen magnifiers, and 
Braille interfaces for the widest range of mainstream mobile devices 
including Symbian-based and Windows Mobile-powered Smartphones as 
well as Pocket PC phones and PDAs. Its product line is the only one 
to support phones working on the GSM, CDMA and WCDMA networks. Code 
Factory's success lies in giving excellent customer support and in 
responding immediately to the needs of its end users.

Among Code Factory's customers are well known organizations like 
ONCE, and carriers such as TIM, Vodafone, SFR, Bouygues Telecom and 
AT&T. The company also collaborated with leading TTS providers and 
Braille manufacturers, thus enabling Code Factory to provide 
excellent text-to-speech technology in many languages for Mobile 
Speak products, and to incorporate support for over twenty wireless 
Braille devices into the software.



For more information, feel free to contact Code Factory S.L.:


Code Factory, S.L., Rambla d'Egara 148 2-2, 08221 Terrassa (Barcelona)
<mailto:info at codefactory.es>info at codefactory.es, www.codefactory.es
Code Factory, S.L. - 2009



From JFreeh at nfb.org  Thu Feb 19 03:33:05 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:33:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Daniel "Rudy" Ruettiger to Serve as National Ambassador
 for Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <auto-000089332550@mailfront2.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org



Daniel "Rudy" Ruettiger to Serve as
National Ambassador for Braille Literacy



Baltimore, Maryland (February 18, 2009): The National Federation of 
the Blind (NFB), the nation's leading advocate for Braille literacy, 
announced today that Daniel "Rudy" Ruettiger, a motivational speaker 
and former collegiate football player best known as the inspiration 
for the motion picture Rudy, will serve as a National Ambassador for 
Braille literacy.  As an ambassador, Ruettiger will help advance the 
NFB's Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, a national initiative to 
promote the importance of reading and writing Braille for blind 
children and adults.  The Braille Readers are Leaders campaign kicked 
off in July of 2008 with the unveiling of the design of a 
commemorative coin to be released on March 26, 2009, in recognition 
of the two hundredth anniversary of the birth of Louis Braille 
(1809-1852), the inventor of the reading and writing code for the 
blind that bears his name.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
said: "The National Federation of the Blind is pleased to have Mr. 
Ruettiger as part of this historic initiative to bring Braille 
literacy to all of the blind children and adults in <?xml:namespace 
prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
/>America who need it.  As an extremely well-known American 
personality and powerful motivational speaker, Mr. Ruettiger's impact 
as a national spokesperson for Braille literacy will surely be 
huge.  There can be no doubt that the ability to read and write 
Braille competently and efficiently is the key to education, 
employment, and success for the blind.  Despite the undisputed value 
of Braille, however, only about 10 percent of blind children in the 
United States are currently learning it.  Society would never accept 
a 10 percent literacy rate among sighted children; it should not 
accept such an outrageously low literacy rate among the blind.  The 
Braille Readers are Leaders campaign, with the support of influential 
Americans like Mr. Ruettiger, will reverse the downward trend in 
Braille literacy and ensure that equal opportunities in education and 
employment are available to all of the nation's blind."



Mr. Ruettiger said: "I am honored and pleased to serve as a National 
Ambassador for the Braille Readers are Leaders campaign.  I strongly 
believe that one person can make a difference, and I am excited to 
help the National Federation of the Blind in its mission to improve 
the lives of blind children and adults throughout the country through 
the power of Braille literacy."



For more information about the Braille Readers Are Leaders campaign 
and the Louis Braille commemorative coin, please visit 
<http://www.braille.org/>www.braille.org.





###




From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 16:06:45 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:06:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to You or Go to It
In-Reply-To: <26d2dfeb0902171934r2e281481s52d4731c5aa6331a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <02B5B9C1F2634853B2ECD28D4C9B4779@D3ZCJ891>
	<26d2dfeb0902171934r2e281481s52d4731c5aa6331a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <499d8365.48c3f10a.404f.7b41@mx.google.com>

Hi all, 

I was educated from kindergarten-12th grade in public school. Personally, I
am glad of this as when in a school for the blind, interaction with sighted
peers might not happen as often, although some could argue that blindness
skills might not be stressed as heavily. I was also glad for the challenging
academics as well as the school orchestra, in which I played from fourth
grade until I graduated high school. 

I had mobility from around preschool age on up into high school from an
instructor from the local blindness agency. As far as cooking and cleaning
goes, my mom showed me a few things, and others I've learned from trial and
error along the way. 

Take care, 

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 
Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March
for Independence:
http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
m&fr_id=1050




From bcsarah.fan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 17:22:36 2009
From: bcsarah.fan at gmail.com (Patricia)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:22:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] come to you or go to it
Message-ID: <DA75EF55834D47D28EE8C59122BDB952@Athena>

Hi: 

This is definitely an interesting topic, and it's also interesting to hear about others experiences. For me personally all of my schooling was in the publicschool system, and like many of us who went to public school, I was the only blind person in my school. If I could do it over again, I think I would still go through the public school system because although there are certain aspects that were difficult for me like I didn't have a very comprehensive physical education program and it was often harder to make friends, I have one really close friend from my school days whom I've been friends with since the third grade and I wouldn't give anything up for that. 

For my elementary school years I had a local O and M instructor who also happened to be my vision teacher. Unfortunately he was extremely discouraging and thus I didn't learn much from him despite having O and m for that time once a week. Anything I did wrong he would react with some nasty comments, and was extremely hard on me. As a vision teacher he even told methat I would essentially never amount to anything and that by grade 7 I would be in the lifeskills program (which was not the mainstreamed academic program) because I needed too much help. And here i am going for my Bachelors in Psychology, to graduate next year. I didn't have O and M in the 7th grade as my vision teacher now became a school teacher thankfully. I was so happy not to deal with him again but because of that my O and M suffered. I had O and M again from grades 8-12 but it was only once a month for half an hour a month, or sometimes for 2 or 3 hours on rare weekends (I'm usually mentally spent after an hour and a half of O and M). Before entering college I only had one lesson before I had to start classes, and only saw my new instructor maybe four times in the two years that i was at that paritcular college. At the school i am at now I've had maybe 10 lessons over the past three years. So needless to say it's slim pickings over here and I'm not the most confident independent traveller.   

I really haven't had all that much lifeskills trainiing. My parents would try to teach me things but aren't the most patient people, and now mom's getting this attitude that it's up to the professionals to teach me, which I don't fully agree with. I did get the opportunity to go to a month long independent living thing, but it didn't focus exclusively on O and M/other lifeskills as I would have liked it to, and at the end of it the coordinator told my parents that they had to keep an eye on me because I wasn't very motivated... way to encourage! I was just getting out of my shell by the end of that month, and technically it wasn't even a month. I guess the most that I have learned has been as a result of living on campus, where you have to do things on your own because nobody else is going to do them for you. I am lucky though because I am only an hour and a half from home if I truly need anything. I went from going home even two weeks in my first year away to going home only for holidays and reading break now. After only three days here in my first year I was completely exhausted and pretty much slept the weekend i was home just to recoperate. 

I've been reading the posts about the training centres, how does that work? Do you have to pay to go to them? where are centres located? I'm really thinking i need to get some independent living skills and think that would be a perfect opportunity before I head off to grad school. The only thing I know of here is Balance in Toronto, do you know anything about that, Sarah? 

Anyway that got a little more rambly than i anticipated, but you brought up such an interesting topic, Nicole.

Patricia 

From spaulding.scott at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 19:08:32 2009
From: spaulding.scott at gmail.com (Scott Spaulding)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:08:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] come to you or go to it
In-Reply-To: <DA75EF55834D47D28EE8C59122BDB952@Athena>
References: <DA75EF55834D47D28EE8C59122BDB952@Athena>
Message-ID: <499dae35.0707d00a.5e63.3d28@mx.google.com>

I went to the school for the blind in Illinois from 76-81 and I finished in
public schools. I graduated from high school in 90.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
Please sponsor me in the 3rd annual NFB March for Independence that will
take place in Detroit MI on July 6th 2009. You can learn about the march and
sponsor me at http://www.marchforindependence.org/goto/ScottSpaulding Please
pass this URL on to anyone who you think might be interested in sponsoring
me or helping in any way.


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Patricia
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:23 PM
To: nabs
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] come to you or go to it

Hi: 

This is definitely an interesting topic, and it's also interesting to hear
about others experiences. For me personally all of my schooling was in the
publicschool system, and like many of us who went to public school, I was
the only blind person in my school. If I could do it over again, I think I
would still go through the public school system because although there are
certain aspects that were difficult for me like I didn't have a very
comprehensive physical education program and it was often harder to make
friends, I have one really close friend from my school days whom I've been
friends with since the third grade and I wouldn't give anything up for that.


For my elementary school years I had a local O and M instructor who also
happened to be my vision teacher. Unfortunately he was extremely
discouraging and thus I didn't learn much from him despite having O and m
for that time once a week. Anything I did wrong he would react with some
nasty comments, and was extremely hard on me. As a vision teacher he even
told methat I would essentially never amount to anything and that by grade 7
I would be in the lifeskills program (which was not the mainstreamed
academic program) because I needed too much help. And here i am going for my
Bachelors in Psychology, to graduate next year. I didn't have O and M in the
7th grade as my vision teacher now became a school teacher thankfully. I was
so happy not to deal with him again but because of that my O and M suffered.
I had O and M again from grades 8-12 but it was only once a month for half
an hour a month, or sometimes for 2 or 3 hours on rare weekends (I'm usually
mentally spent after an hour and a half of O and M). Before entering college
I only had one lesson before I had to start classes, and only saw my new
instructor maybe four times in the two years that i was at that paritcular
college. At the school i am at now I've had maybe 10 lessons over the past
three years. So needless to say it's slim pickings over here and I'm not the
most confident independent traveller.   

I really haven't had all that much lifeskills trainiing. My parents would
try to teach me things but aren't the most patient people, and now mom's
getting this attitude that it's up to the professionals to teach me, which I
don't fully agree with. I did get the opportunity to go to a month long
independent living thing, but it didn't focus exclusively on O and M/other
lifeskills as I would have liked it to, and at the end of it the coordinator
told my parents that they had to keep an eye on me because I wasn't very
motivated... way to encourage! I was just getting out of my shell by the end
of that month, and technically it wasn't even a month. I guess the most that
I have learned has been as a result of living on campus, where you have to
do things on your own because nobody else is going to do them for you. I am
lucky though because I am only an hour and a half from home if I truly need
anything. I went from going home even two weeks in my first year away to
going home only for holidays and reading break now. After only three days
here in my first year I was completely exhausted and pretty much slept the
weekend i was home just to recoperate. 

I've been reading the posts about the training centres, how does that work?
Do you have to pay to go to them? where are centres located? I'm really
thinking i need to get some independent living skills and think that would
be a perfect opportunity before I head off to grad school. The only thing I
know of here is Balance in Toronto, do you know anything about that, Sarah? 

Anyway that got a little more rambly than i anticipated, but you brought up
such an interesting topic, Nicole.

Patricia 
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spaulding.scott%40gm
ail.com



From AZNOR99 at aol.com  Thu Feb 19 19:18:12 2009
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:18:12 EST
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [blindlaw] NFB sues LSAC
Message-ID: <c05.57416619.36cf0a74@aol.com>

Thought you might find this of interest.
Ronza
 
 
 
  
____________________________________
 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com
Reply-to: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
To:  blindlaw at nfbnet.org
Sent: 2/19/2009 12:38:45 P.M. Eastern Standard  Time
Subj: [blindlaw] NFB sues LSAC


Greetings:

I am part of the legal team filing this  complaint today and thought the list 
would be interested in the below  release.
*****************

FOR IMMEDIATE  RELEASE


CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public  Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314,  extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
cdanielsen at nfb.org

LSAC  Discriminates Against Blind Law School Applicants
National Federation of  the Blind Sues Law School Admissions Council for 
Inaccessible Web Site and  LSAT Preparation Materials


Baltimore, Maryland (February 19, 2009):  The National Federation of the 
Blind, the nation's oldest and largest  organization of blind people; its 
California affiliate; and a blind law school  applicant, Deepa Goraya, are filing a 
lawsuit today against the Law School  Admissions Council (LSAC).  The complaint 
asserts that the LSAC, the body  that administers the Law School Admissions 
Test (which most aspiring law  students must take) and provides other services 
to law schools and law school  applicants, violates the California Disabled 
Persons Act and the Unruh Act  because its Web site (www.lsac.org) and LSAT 
preparation materials are  inaccessible to blind law school applicants.  The 
plaintiffs have  attempted to meet with the LSAC to resolve the matter, but the LSAC 
canceled a  planned meeting.



Blind people access Web sites on computers  equipped with screen access 
software that converts what is on the screen into  synthesized speech or Braille.  
The keyboard is used instead of a mouse  to navigate the Web site and click on 
selected links or buttons. If a Web site  is improperly coded, however, blind 
computer users cannot access the  site.  Blind people can also use screen 
readers to access certain kinds  of electronic documents, including those in the 
popular Portable Document  Format (PDF).  However, if PDF files are not 
properly "tagged," they  cannot be used by the blind.  The LSAC Web site contains 
accessibility  barriers including improperly formatted online forms, tables and 
charts that  cannot be read by screen access software, and faulty keyboard 
navigation  support.  These access barriers make it difficult or impossible for 
blind  people to use the Web site to register to take the LSAT, among other  
things.  The Web site is also the only avenue for people to apply online  to any 
law school accredited by 



the American Bar  Association.  However, blind applicants cannot submit their 
applications  without sighted assistance because the application forms are 
improperly  formatted.  In addition, none of the LSAT practice materials, which  
include previously administered versions of the test that sighted people can  
obtain on the LSAC Web site, are available in accessible electronic  formats.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation  of the Blind, said: 
"The Internet is extremely useful to blind people, as well  as our sighted 
peers, when Web sites are properly formatted according to  well-established 
guidelines; there is no good reason for any Web site offering  goods and services to 
the public to be inaccessible to blind people.  For  too long, blind people 
have experienced barriers to entering the legal  profession, despite our long 
history of demonstrated success in that  field.  The National Federation of the 
Blind will not sit quietly while  the LSAC willfully refuses to provide the 
same services to blind people  seeking admission to law school that it does to 
the sighted.  The LSAC is  engaging in blatant discrimination against the blind 
and we will not stand for  it."



Deepa Goraya, a law school applicant and named plaintiff  in the suit, said: 
"Trying to use the LSAC Web site made the experience of  applying to law 
school a nightmare when it should have been as easy for me as  for anyone else.  I 
had to select and rely upon a reader for over fifty  hours to complete my law 
school applications.  Also, none of the practice  tests available on the Web 
site were accessible.  I want the process of  gaining admission to law school 
to be easier for all blind people who are  interested in entering this noble 
profession, and I hope this action will  achieve that goal."





###





About  the National Federation of the Blind


With more than 50,000 members,  the National Federation of the Blind is the 
largest and most influential  membership organization of blind people in the 
United States.  The NFB  improves blind people's lives through advocacy, 
education, research,  technology, and programs encouraging independence and 
self-confidence.   It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice 
of the  nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation 
 of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
the  United States for the blind led by the blind.  

Scott C. LaBarre,  Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste.  918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640  (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com  (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential  and privileged 
information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may  not read, 
copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this  message in error, 
please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or  slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and 
destroy and delete it from your system. This  message and any attachments are 
covered by the Electronic
Communications  Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§  2510-2521.
_______________________________________________
blindlaw  mailing  list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
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From JWilson at nfb.org  Thu Feb 19 22:24:43 2009
From: JWilson at nfb.org (Wilson,
	Joanne)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:24:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide dog policy does not
 discriminate
Message-ID: <auto-000089497528@mailfront2.g2host.com>


----------
From: Brammer, Robert [AG] [mailto:rbrammer at ag.state.ia.us]
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 1:53 PM
To: Brammer, Robert [AG]
Subject: Atty. Gen. release: Jury finds IA Dept. 
for Blind's guide dog policy does not discriminate

To News Editors.   From Bob Brammer (Iowa 
Attorney General’s Office – 515-281-6699.)
Please find a release pasted below.  This will be 
posted soon at 
<http://www.iowaattorneygeneral.org/>www.IowaAttorneyGeneral.org 
.  A jury entered a verdict Wednesday in this 
case in Polk County District Court.
Best regards,  Bram
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For immediate release – Thursday, February 19, 2009.
Contact Bob Brammer – 515-281-6699

Jury finds Iowa Department for the Blind’s
Guide Dog Policy Does Not Discriminate

             Des Moines.  A Polk County jury has 
rejected a Des Moines woman’s claim that the 
State of Iowa Department for the Blind 
discriminated against her by refusing her request 
to use a guide dog while she attended the 
Department’s orientation and adjustment training program.

             The Department for the Blind 
orientation and training program is a 
comprehensive program that utilizes a totally 
non-visual approach to teaching blindness 
skills.  Students with partial vision are 
required to wear eyeshades to prevent reliance 
upon any visual cues during training.  Department 
policies prohibit the use of any visual aids 
within the orientation and training program, 
including guide dogs.  The Department has no 
objection to guide dogs in other situations.

             Stephanie Dohmen, who is legally 
blind, attended the program for several months 
beginning in September 2000 and sought to 
re-enter the program in June 2002 accompanied by her guide dog.

             Dohmen claimed in her lawsuit that 
the Department’s policy violated her rights under 
the Iowa Civil Rights Act and under federal laws 
that prohibit discrimination on the basis of disability.

             After a six-day trial, the 
eight-person jury rejected Dohmen’s claims in a verdict entered Wednesday.


             The Department for the Blind, which 
was represented in the trial by the Iowa Attorney 
General’s Office, argued that a totally 
non-visual approach – and training without 
assistance of a guide-dog or other visual aids – 
is the most effective approach for 
visually-impaired persons who are learning skills 
and techniques for dealing with blindness.

             The Department places no limitations 
upon the use of guide dogs in other settings, 
including in the Department for the Blind 
building in downtown Des Moines.   For example, 
Karen Keninger, the Director of the Department, 
uses a guide dog, and the dog accompanied 
Keninger during her testimony at the trial.

             The orientation program typically 
includes about six months of full-time training 
in various problem-solving skills, such as 
cane-travel on public streets, using Braille, 
using computers, and dealing with many other situations.

             The Department for the Blind’s 
orientation and adjustment program was 
established in 1959 and is considered by many to 
be one of the most effective in the country.

             During the trial, the State 
Department for the Blind presented testimony from 
Joanne Wilson and Frederic K. Schroeder, each a 
former Commissioner of the U.S. Rehabilitation 
Services Administration, which oversees programs 
for the blind around the country.

             “Iowa’s orientation program 
profoundly changes lives,” said Wilson, who also 
is Executive Director of the National Federation 
of the Blind.  “It works.  It’s a cutting-edge 
program and a model for other states.”  Wilson is 
a Webster City native and ISU graduate who went 
through the Iowa Department for the Blind’s orientation program herself.

             Schroeder said:  “To me the central 
point is that individuals have a choice in the 
type of training they take.  While programs must 
and should make reasonable accommodations, they 
cannot be required to alter the fundamentals of the program.”

- 30 -




From priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 20 02:16:16 2009
From: priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com (priscilla)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:16:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to you or go to it
In-Reply-To: <mailman.41.1235066404.3954.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.41.1235066404.3954.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DS24C7A509C9E0C48D5E975BAB30@phx.gbl>

hi all listers,
I think that this topic was very interesting.
I mostly went to public school since pre-school up to the 12th grade.
initially when my parents just arrived from Ecuador into the united states, 
they were very confused at first in terms of which school I was supposed to 
go to.
When I was around 2 years old, I went to a special center where people with 
different disabilities such as cerebral palsy among other things went to be 
taught different skills.
Mom did not want that kind of school for me so I went to a public school 
ever since and I did quite well.
There I learned Braille since the age of 3 with a vision teacher who was the 
most patient and nicest person in the world, mom even says that I have her 
smile and attitude.
she helped me learn how to be patient and confident since I was little.
Although I did fine in public school, I did suffer discrimination from some 
teachers, but the kids seemed more compassionate accept for the usual 
teasing that they always do as young teenagers.
I had mobility every week since I was in pre-school with a good instructor 
until I moved out of Newark when I started high school. When I was in 
grammar school I had an aid since 5th trade until the eighth grade, but she 
was a very discouraging person because she said "I don't think you will be 
able to make it to college because you can't do anything on your own. You 
have to be used to walking along with someone talking to you when they are 
trying to tell you directions instead of being held, there will be no aid in 
high school, I don't think you will make it that far." To my grammar school 
aid, hello, I made it far, very far, I am in college living on my own.
then as I was in high school, I had a discouraging mobility teacher who had 
the nerve to tell mom that I never learned anything and never developed my 
travel skills since the age of 7.
in other words, she thought I was stuck at the level of travel skills of a 
seven year old which to me is just pure nonsense from her part.
Mom finally told her off and whenever she came home to practice mobility 
lessons, she would say I am doing fine just to make mom feel better and stay 
on terms with her.
Oh, I forgot to tell you that I had an aid all through high school and she 
was not the usual person who would help you do everything.
Like anyone, she helped me during my first and part of my second year of 
high school and said, when you go to college, there will be no aid so we 
better start this when you are young.
Thanks to her, I learned the basic skills needed for college.
I remember when I was a senior in high school, she would work at the 
principle office and help with other duties while I was in class as well as 
brail handouts that my teacher would provide for me to read.
She gradually weaned herself as the years of high school went by from the 
first day she came where she helped me do everything until my senior year 
where she was not there at all except brailing my handouts.
Then as I came to college, I got back to my old mobility instructor who says 
that I always find a different route to get to places, and that I am 
improving a lot.
but one thing I notice a lot is that every time I go out to class or lunch, 
people come by and ask me if I need assistance even though I know where the 
class is.
I learned to teach myself how to get from one place to another sometimes, 
thanks to the living on campus in a dormitory experience.
I think that living away from home as well as trial and error is the best 
way to learn rather than those training programs.
This is just my personal view only because the last time I went to the wings 
program, I did not really get much out of it and was often having a hard 
time getting along with some of the people there.
But the good program that helped me at least get the most basic things is 
the drew program which was a pretty good training program.
For example when I am at the cafeteria, I always go to lunch with this nice 
lady who also has a son with cerebral palsy.
She used to help me a lot during the first year of living on campus which 
was my sophomore year in college because she figured that I was new to the 
cafeteria.
I remember her saying "you think I am going to spread the icing on the cake 
for you? uh uh uh no no no, I want you to do this yourself."
So when she grabbed me a chocolate cupcake, she gave me a plastic spatula 
and she taught me how to spread the icing on it.
She also says "I can carry the tray since it is to big for your small hands, 
but you are going to get your own drink ok you need to learn this so when 
you graduate you know and remember how to do that.
I like her the most because she is a person who understands what it is to 
encourage someone with a disability to live a normal and independent life 
and I thank her a million times for that.

She taught me how to scoop ice cream and put the hot fudge on it and said 
"you are doing this on your own, but I will still be there.
so, these are all of my experiences that I have acquired, what do you all 
think?

Sorry if this is way to long, but I couldn't miss a bit of information.

If I were to go back, I would start the living away from home process since 
day 1 of my freshman year, only because I could get a lot more out of  it 
rather than starting it  later.

Thank you very much.


Priscilla

Ps. Nobody, not even my school counselor as well as most of the adults in 
high school as well as my eighth grade teacher  thought I was going to be 
able to make it through college or high school due to the dependence they 
thought I had on people and the amount of incompetence, but they are all 
lightheaded due to being  shamed of themselves by me proving them totally 
wrong.
I think this is interesting, what are your views? 



From passionflower505 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 20 02:44:25 2009
From: passionflower505 at yahoo.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:44:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] a large print foreign language textbook question
Message-ID: <936371.38754.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I have a friend who is not on this list. She is currently encountering a problem with being able to have access to her Spanish textbooks. She reads all of her other books electronically just fine, but her Spanish books do not scan clearly enough for anyone to be able to understand. She cannot see the print that is in the textbook, and when the company was asked, they said that they did not sell any large print books, nor did they have an electronic copy that they were willing to release to her.

I was curious if any of you have encountered this situation, i was unsure of what to say since i am totally blind and am at a school who is willing to buy me brailled foreign language texts. You can reply off list so i can put you in contact with her. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks
Cindy Bennett
President: NC Association of Blind Students


      


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Feb 20 04:25:43 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:25:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Come to you or go to it
References: <mailman.41.1235066404.3954.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<BAY105-DS24C7A509C9E0C48D5E975BAB30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9A5453CF4CB4461EA1946C3410F852D2@D3ZCJ891>

I guess sometimes it is hard to balance the academic part with the life 
skills. I feel that I was very fortunate that this was not too much of a 
problem for me as the life skills training was done outside of school hours, 
but still in my school district.
As far as independence goes, I was the one who finally said in eighth grade, 
"okay, enough, I can get from class to class on my own." However, there was 
still one class that I always got assistance going to and from because there 
was a dangerous hill.  One of my sighted friends had broken her elbow 
falling on that hill, and everyone agreed that that was not what we wanted 
for me.
As far as doing things on my own, I do as much as I can. I get help in the 
cafeteria, though, because things are not in the best places for me to get 
me myself, and it's sometimes hard to carry a tray and use a guide dog. Any 
suggestions for this one?
As far as people asking if I need or helping too much, well... If it's 
someone that I probably will not see again and I don't really have time to 
explain, I just grin and bear it. Not sure why people think that they have 
to get a paper towel for me instead of showing me where the dispenser is. 
However, if it is someone who helps me often, I try to explain what I can do 
on my own.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "priscilla" <priscillagarces1987 at hotmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Come to you or go to it


hi all listers,
I think that this topic was very interesting.
I mostly went to public school since pre-school up to the 12th grade.
initially when my parents just arrived from Ecuador into the united states,
they were very confused at first in terms of which school I was supposed to
go to.
When I was around 2 years old, I went to a special center where people with
different disabilities such as cerebral palsy among other things went to be
taught different skills.
Mom did not want that kind of school for me so I went to a public school
ever since and I did quite well.
There I learned Braille since the age of 3 with a vision teacher who was the
most patient and nicest person in the world, mom even says that I have her
smile and attitude.
she helped me learn how to be patient and confident since I was little.
Although I did fine in public school, I did suffer discrimination from some
teachers, but the kids seemed more compassionate accept for the usual
teasing that they always do as young teenagers.
I had mobility every week since I was in pre-school with a good instructor
until I moved out of Newark when I started high school. When I was in
grammar school I had an aid since 5th trade until the eighth grade, but she
was a very discouraging person because she said "I don't think you will be
able to make it to college because you can't do anything on your own. You
have to be used to walking along with someone talking to you when they are
trying to tell you directions instead of being held, there will be no aid in
high school, I don't think you will make it that far." To my grammar school
aid, hello, I made it far, very far, I am in college living on my own.
then as I was in high school, I had a discouraging mobility teacher who had
the nerve to tell mom that I never learned anything and never developed my
travel skills since the age of 7.
in other words, she thought I was stuck at the level of travel skills of a
seven year old which to me is just pure nonsense from her part.
Mom finally told her off and whenever she came home to practice mobility
lessons, she would say I am doing fine just to make mom feel better and stay
on terms with her.
Oh, I forgot to tell you that I had an aid all through high school and she
was not the usual person who would help you do everything.
Like anyone, she helped me during my first and part of my second year of
high school and said, when you go to college, there will be no aid so we
better start this when you are young.
Thanks to her, I learned the basic skills needed for college.
I remember when I was a senior in high school, she would work at the
principle office and help with other duties while I was in class as well as
brail handouts that my teacher would provide for me to read.
She gradually weaned herself as the years of high school went by from the
first day she came where she helped me do everything until my senior year
where she was not there at all except brailing my handouts.
Then as I came to college, I got back to my old mobility instructor who says
that I always find a different route to get to places, and that I am
improving a lot.
but one thing I notice a lot is that every time I go out to class or lunch,
people come by and ask me if I need assistance even though I know where the
class is.
I learned to teach myself how to get from one place to another sometimes,
thanks to the living on campus in a dormitory experience.
I think that living away from home as well as trial and error is the best
way to learn rather than those training programs.
This is just my personal view only because the last time I went to the wings
program, I did not really get much out of it and was often having a hard
time getting along with some of the people there.
But the good program that helped me at least get the most basic things is
the drew program which was a pretty good training program.
For example when I am at the cafeteria, I always go to lunch with this nice
lady who also has a son with cerebral palsy.
She used to help me a lot during the first year of living on campus which
was my sophomore year in college because she figured that I was new to the
cafeteria.
I remember her saying "you think I am going to spread the icing on the cake
for you? uh uh uh no no no, I want you to do this yourself."
So when she grabbed me a chocolate cupcake, she gave me a plastic spatula
and she taught me how to spread the icing on it.
She also says "I can carry the tray since it is to big for your small hands,
but you are going to get your own drink ok you need to learn this so when
you graduate you know and remember how to do that.
I like her the most because she is a person who understands what it is to
encourage someone with a disability to live a normal and independent life
and I thank her a million times for that.

She taught me how to scoop ice cream and put the hot fudge on it and said
"you are doing this on your own, but I will still be there.
so, these are all of my experiences that I have acquired, what do you all
think?

Sorry if this is way to long, but I couldn't miss a bit of information.

If I were to go back, I would start the living away from home process since
day 1 of my freshman year, only because I could get a lot more out of  it
rather than starting it  later.

Thank you very much.


Priscilla

Ps. Nobody, not even my school counselor as well as most of the adults in
high school as well as my eighth grade teacher  thought I was going to be
able to make it through college or high school due to the dependence they
thought I had on people and the amount of incompetence, but they are all
lightheaded due to being  shamed of themselves by me proving them totally
wrong.
I think this is interesting, what are your views?


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Fri Feb 20 05:59:28 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:59:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
In-Reply-To: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <20090220005928.74zwts8a8sws4kww@webmail.utoronto.ca>

Hi,
I agreee with you in some senses. Sorry - JAWS is causing issues so  
there may be spelling errors throughout this. I used to solely use  
Braille, but now use both for convenience. Both being braille and  
speech. I think the idea of the literacy campaign is to promote the  
teaching of Braille to young kids just learning to read. Too many of  
them didn't learn it before and so had issues writing, as I understand  
it. Teaching of Braille to those just learning to read at all is  
critical, but I can understand for practicality it is best to use  
voice for things like cokmputers or school reading as much must be  
done at once and a screenreader can go much faster than any pair of  
hands or eyes. I just think you might be missing the point when it  
comes to why the literacy campaign is happening - we who know Braille  
and have enough literacy to not use it all the tim e are fine but  
those who have never been taught cannot expect to be competitive in  
academics or the workplace. Or that's just my take on the situation.
Thank you for reading this,
Sarah



Quoting "Antonio M. Guimaraes" <iamantonio at cox.net>:

> Hello all,
>
> I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to   
> throw some thought in about reading and literacy.
>
> First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is   
> getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter  
>  the method?
>
> I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>
> First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the   
> discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books,   
> articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are   
> conveyed.
>
> By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an   
> text to speech.
>
> I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for   
> literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not   
> learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect   
> spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>
> I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best  
>  speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my   
> writing.
>
> Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even   
> though she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable   
> communicator.
>
> I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs   
> messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two   
> hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to   
> get at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would   
> only be able to read a small fraction of the material.
>
> A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world   
> than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the   
> literate person is by some measures a more interesting person   
> because she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some   
> authority about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set   
> out a reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I   
> limmited myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving  
>  on to something else.
>
> So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we   
> tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the   
> time to read about religion, and so fourth.
>
> I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting   
> as much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is   
> the only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on   
> Kurzweil, or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or   
> practicing good literacy skills.
>
> Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do   
> you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by   
> reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?
>
> What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy   
> promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>





From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Feb 20 06:51:22 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:51:22 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice
References: <024c01c9908e$e5b65f60$020fa8c0@userf9b4fa60eb>
	<20090220005928.74zwts8a8sws4kww@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <7B2D26247219499F9D225BB86D4DAF1C@D3ZCJ891>

    Reading and writing is definitely a skill that is needed. Once you know 
it, then you can usually choose between Braille or speech, unless only one 
or the other is available. We all have different preferences. For example, I 
prefer to read email and write code on the computer with JAWS. However, 
whenever proof reading something, I certainly prefer Braille; even with the 
punctuation settings turned up on JAWS, it is hard, if not impossible, to 
catch everything that you can and hopefully would catch with Braille. Ever 
read/heard the spell checker poem?

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How you read, Braille or voice


Hi,
I agreee with you in some senses. Sorry - JAWS is causing issues so
there may be spelling errors throughout this. I used to solely use
Braille, but now use both for convenience. Both being braille and
speech. I think the idea of the literacy campaign is to promote the
teaching of Braille to young kids just learning to read. Too many of
them didn't learn it before and so had issues writing, as I understand
it. Teaching of Braille to those just learning to read at all is
critical, but I can understand for practicality it is best to use
voice for things like cokmputers or school reading as much must be
done at once and a screenreader can go much faster than any pair of
hands or eyes. I just think you might be missing the point when it
comes to why the literacy campaign is happening - we who know Braille
and have enough literacy to not use it all the tim e are fine but
those who have never been taught cannot expect to be competitive in
academics or the workplace. Or that's just my take on the situation.
Thank you for reading this,
Sarah



Quoting "Antonio M. Guimaraes" <iamantonio at cox.net>:

> Hello all,
>
> I am a braille reader, though not  a very fast one. I'd like to
> throw some thought in about reading and literacy.
>
> First, what is literacy? Is braille the only way to literacy? Is
> getting reading done part of being literate, and informed, no matter
>  the method?
>
> I have as many questions as I think I have the answers.
>
> First, for me literacy is the ability to read and right, and the
> discernment to stay informed by reading a wide variety of books,
> articles, magazines, journals, and any other form where words are
> conveyed.
>
> By my definition, literacy can and does include spoken language, an
> text to speech.
>
> I am a firm believer that braille is an integral vehicle for
> literacy, but not the soul vehicle. Without braille, one can not
> learn to spell properly. I am also tempted to argue that perfect
> spelling is not indicative of, or a prerequisit for literacy.
>
> I should disclose, in case you didn't notice, that I am not the best
>  speller, and that I do make quite a few spelling mistakes in my
> writing.
>
> Still, the literate person does not read in braille only, even
> though she or he needs a good amount of it to be a good, reputable
> communicator.
>
> I use speech on my computer, and was able to get through 300 nabs
> messages in one sitting. I think this was done on less than two
> hours, and without braille. I wanted a quick and efficient way to
> get at these mailings, and with my braille reading speed, I would
> only be able to read a small fraction of the material.
>
> A well-read person is more literate, and best exposed to the world
> than the passive listener who has no developed interests. So, the
> literate person is by some measures a more interesting person
> because she or he is better informed, and can discuss with some
> authority about a wider array of topics. To this effect, I have set
> out a reading list with books on topics of interest to me. I
> limmited myself to learning about one topic for a month, then moving
>  on to something else.
>
> So, March might be Antonio's philosophy month, and not the kind we
> tipically talk about. April could be birds month, may would the the
> time to read about religion, and so fourth.
>
> I feel some reservation and small amount of guilt for not devoting
> as much time to reading in braille. After all, braille for some is
> the only way to being literate, and if I sell out and read on
> Kurzweil, or in spoken media, I would not be aquiring knowledge, or
> practicing good literacy skills.
>
> Do you see the hole in the argument of braille as the only way? Do
> you see that I would still be accessing and gaining knowledge by
> reading an electronic file with my text to speech features?
>
> What are your thoughts as we embark on the biggest braille literacy
> promotion campaign? Keep it honest, and inspiring if you can.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>




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From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Fri Feb 20 15:57:23 2009
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:57:23 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] national law journal article on suit against LSAC
Message-ID: <1F585E6C1BF04ADE802A82848A100315@labarre>

Greetings:

Below I am pasting a National Law Journal article on the lawsuit we filed yesterday.  Because I have been on the team dealing with this, I want folks to know that we first wrote LSAC a letter in December.  Joan Vantol got in touch with Dr. Maurer to set up a meeting in Baltimore for January 26th.  A few days before, she abruptly canceled the meeting and only stated that she would be in touch at some point to reschedule.  We remain open to conducting negotiations with LSAC, but our first obligation is to protect the rights of blind/visually impaired individuals affected by these and similar practices.
***********
 

Blind law student sues Law School Admissions Council over accessibility 

Sheri Qualters / Staff reporter 
February 20, 2009


The National Federation of the Blind and a blind law school applicant filed a discrimination lawsuit against the national law school admissions test administrator, The Law School Admissions Council, in a California Superior Court. 

The lawsuit, which was filed on Feb. 19 in Alameda County, claims that the Newtown, Pa.-based admissions council violates two California laws requiring equal access to disabled persons because its Web site and Law School Admission Test (LSAT) preparation materials are inaccessible to the blind. National Federation of the Blind v. Law School Admissions Council Inc., No. RG-09436691 (Alameda Co., Calif., Super. Ct.). 

The lawsuit's claims include alleged violations of California's Disabled Persons Act and California's Unruh Act, which requires businesses to offer equal accommodations and facilities to disabled persons. The plaintiffs are also asking the court for a declaratory judgment stating that California laws require the admissions council to provide blind persons equal access to its Web site. 

The federation has successfully targeted corporations with inadequate Web site accessibility for the blind. Last August, retailer Target Corp. agreed to change its Web site and establish a $6 million claims fund to settle a discrimination class action brought by the federation. National Federation of the Blind v. Target, No. 06-01802 (N.D. Calif.). [NLJ, 8-28-08.] 

In September, Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley and the federation negotiated a deal with Apple Inc. to make Apple's iTunes and iTunes U fully accessible to the blind. [NLJ 9-30-08.] 

The Law School Admissions Council is "engaging in blatant discrimination against the blind" said the blind federation's president, Marc Maurer, in a statement. 

"For too long, blind people have experienced barriers to entering the legal profession, despite our long history of demonstrated success in that field," stated Maurer. "The National Federation of the Blind will not sit quietly while the LSAC willfully refuses to provide the same services to blind people seeking admission to law school that it does to the sighted." 

The admissions council generally does not comment on pending lawsuits, but decided to make an exception in this case to express its disappointment, said general counsel Joan Van Tol.

The council is disappointed that the federation chose to litigate "when we fully expected to address their concerns through productive meetings." Van Tol also said the council has been working on setting up a meeting at the federation's offices "so they could demonstrate new assistive technologies that we'd like to learn about."

Here is a link to the article:  http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202428419045

 

 

 

  
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.

From JFreeh at nfb.org  Fri Feb 20 19:06:22 2009
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 13:06:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] LSAC Discriminates Against Blind Law School Applicants
Message-ID: <auto-000086742902@mailfront1.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org



LSAC Discriminates Against Blind Law School Applicants


National Federation of the Blind Sues Law School Admissions Council 
for Inaccessible Web Site and LSAT Preparation Materials



Baltimore, Maryland (February 19, 2009): The National Federation of 
the Blind, the nation's oldest and largest organization of blind 
people; its California affiliate; and a blind law school applicant, 
Deepa Goraya, are filing a lawsuit today against the Law School 
Admissions Council (LSAC).  The complaint asserts that the LSAC, the 
body that administers the Law School Admissions Test (which most 
aspiring law students must take) and provides other services to law 
schools and law school applicants, violates the California Disabled 
Persons Act and the Unruh Act because its Web site (www.lsac.org) and 
LSAT preparation materials are inaccessible to blind law school 
applicants.  The plaintiffs have attempted to meet with the LSAC to 
resolve the matter, but the LSAC canceled a planned meeting.



Blind people access Web sites on computers equipped with screen 
access software that converts what is on the screen into synthesized 
speech or Braille.  The keyboard is used instead of a mouse to 
navigate the Web site and click on selected links or buttons. If a 
Web site is improperly coded, however, blind computer users cannot 
access the site.  Blind people can also use screen readers to access 
certain kinds of electronic documents, including those in the popular 
Portable Document Format (PDF).  However, if PDF files are not 
properly "tagged," they cannot be used by the blind.  The LSAC Web 
site contains accessibility barriers including improperly formatted 
online forms, tables and charts that cannot be read by screen access 
software, and faulty keyboard navigation support.  These access 
barriers make it difficult or impossible for blind people to use the 
Web site to register to take the LSAT, among other things.  The Web 
site is also the only avenue for people to apply online to any law 
school accredited by



the American Bar Association.  However, blind applicants cannot 
submit their applications without sighted assistance because the 
application forms are improperly formatted.  In addition, none of the 
LSAT practice materials, which include previously administered 
versions of the test that sighted people can obtain on the LSAC Web 
site, are available in accessible electronic formats.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
said: "The Internet is extremely useful to blind people, as well as 
our sighted peers, when Web sites are properly formatted according to 
well-established guidelines; there is no good reason for any Web site 
offering goods and services to the public to be inaccessible to blind 
people.  For too long, blind people have experienced barriers to 
entering the legal profession, despite our long history of 
demonstrated success in that field.  The National Federation of the 
Blind will not sit quietly while the LSAC willfully refuses to 
provide the same services to blind people seeking admission to law 
school that it does to the sighted.  The LSAC is engaging in blatant 
discrimination against the blind and we will not stand for it."



Deepa Goraya, a law school applicant and named plaintiff in the suit, 
said: "Trying to use the LSAC Web site made the experience of 
applying to law school a nightmare when it should have been as easy 
for me as for anyone else.  I had to select and rely upon a reader 
for over fifty hours to complete my law school applications.  Also, 
none of the practice tests available on the Web site were 
accessible.  I want the process of gaining admission to law school to 
be easier for all blind people who are interested in entering this 
noble profession, and I hope this action will achieve that goal."





###







About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives 
through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading 
force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
the United States for the blind led by the blind.






From tweetybaby19 at comcast.net  Fri Feb 20 23:06:26 2009
From: tweetybaby19 at comcast.net (EVELYN  E. VALDEZ)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:06:26 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] 0'Lucky Greetings
In-Reply-To: <30809408.1235166020525.JavaMail.www@app18>
Message-ID: <1455756983.45551235171186891.JavaMail.root@sz0058a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


----- Forwarded Message ----- 
From: "Kevan O'Worley" <outreach at nfb.org> 
To: tweetybaby19 at comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:40:07 PM GMT - 05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: 0'Lucky Greetings 






  



A little luck for St.Patrick's Day? 


St. Patrick's Day Braille Graphic


Luck is great, but what we really need is your help! 



Your donation of $7 supports the Imagination Fund 

and the programs and initiatives of the NFB Jernigan Institute. 

Did you know  that only 10 percent of blind children 

are getting Braille instruction in school? 

Partner with us to stop this Braille literacy crisis! 
Help us double the number of Braille readers by  the year 2015!  


An additional donation of only $3 will directly benefit 

blind children, youth, adults, and seniors 

who are losing their vision 

(their families will benefit as well). 



Thank You ! 



(thank you)   




SEND eCARD 


  


The St. Patrick's Day eCard 
shows a picture of the word  " Braille " in large letters, 

where the "B" is decorated with  a green top hat and shamrocks, 

and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  



and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  



where the "B" is decorated with  a green top hat and shamrocks, 

and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  



and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  

Thank You ! 



(thank you)   




SEND eCARD 


  


The St. Patrick's Day eCard 
shows a picture of the word  " Braille " in large letters, 

where the "B" is decorated with  a green top hat and shamrocks, 

and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  



and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  



where the "B" is decorated with  a green top hat and shamrocks, 

and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  



and the letters "a" and "e" are also decorated with green shamrocks . 







  





  





  









  





  





  




Unsubscribe from receiving email, or change your email preferences.

From tonysohl at cox.net  Sat Feb 21 14:39:16 2009
From: tonysohl at cox.net (tony sohl)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:39:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
Message-ID: <5758A61C314F4B0CA5490CC0DB6FB6A1@swenson>

Hi I am taking a geology class and I am looking for the periodic table in an accessible format that is easy to use. If anyone knows of one or where I can get my hands on one then let me know.

From tonysohl at cox.net  Sat Feb 21 14:41:19 2009
From: tonysohl at cox.net (tony sohl)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:41:19 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Volcanos
Message-ID: <264240731EE54F85B22F3F08121020D4@swenson>

Hi I am taking a geology class and this is tony Sohl. I am wondering are there any tactile models of volcanoes? I am looking for tactile models of an eruption of one. If anyone knows where I can find one then let me know.

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 21 16:02:34 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 08:02:34 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
References: <5758A61C314F4B0CA5490CC0DB6FB6A1@swenson>
Message-ID: <724AFF965CED41C6B77AC22EFA30896D@D3ZCJ891>

Go to
http://www.blindscience.org/ncbys/Chemistry.asp?SnID=2
and go to the heading that says Miscellaneous.
Below that, you will find a link to the Periodic Table in the form of an 
Access database.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tony sohl" <tonysohl at cox.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements


Hi I am taking a geology class and I am looking for the periodic table in an 
accessible format that is easy to use. If anyone knows of one or where I can 
get my hands on one then let me know.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Feb 21 16:44:37 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:44:37 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
In-Reply-To: <5758A61C314F4B0CA5490CC0DB6FB6A1@swenson>
References: <5758A61C314F4B0CA5490CC0DB6FB6A1@swenson>
Message-ID: <auto-000086824432@mailfront1.g2host.com>

The National Braille Association, nba.org used to sell various tables 
in Braille.

Dave

At 08:39 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>Hi I am taking a geology class and I am looking for the periodic 
>table in an accessible format that is easy to use. If anyone knows 
>of one or where I can get my hands on one then let me know.
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1964 - Release Date: 
>02/21/09 11:05:00



From tonysohl at cox.net  Sat Feb 21 20:56:54 2009
From: tonysohl at cox.net (tony sohl)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:56:54 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
References: <5758A61C314F4B0CA5490CC0DB6FB6A1@swenson>
	<724AFF965CED41C6B77AC22EFA30896D@D3ZCJ891>
Message-ID: <75380B4637E947AEB3EA9912134C9A6D@swenson>

Hi thank you very much.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements


> Go to
> http://www.blindscience.org/ncbys/Chemistry.asp?SnID=2
> and go to the heading that says Miscellaneous.
> Below that, you will find a link to the Periodic Table in the form of an
> Access database.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tony sohl" <tonysohl at cox.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:39 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
>
>
> Hi I am taking a geology class and I am looking for the periodic table in 
> an
> accessible format that is easy to use. If anyone knows of one or where I 
> can
> get my hands on one then let me know.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tonysohl%40cox.net 



From merisa.musemic at gmail.com  Sat Feb 21 22:38:41 2009
From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:38:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws
Message-ID: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! I downloaded itunes last week. I attempted to setup an account,
but find that itunes is not accessible with Jaws at all. If anyone can
help please let me know. I am also wondering what type of music
devices do some of use. Do some of you use mp3 players or ipods?
Thanks!
Merisa


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 21 22:42:14 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 14:42:14 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
References: <5758A61C314F4B0CA5490CC0DB6FB6A1@swenson><724AFF965CED41C6B77AC22EFA30896D@D3ZCJ891>
	<75380B4637E947AEB3EA9912134C9A6D@swenson>
Message-ID: <73160AD78DD34888B3746C00AA767374@D3ZCJ891>

You're welcome. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tony sohl" <tonysohl at cox.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements


Hi thank you very much.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements


> Go to
> http://www.blindscience.org/ncbys/Chemistry.asp?SnID=2
> and go to the heading that says Miscellaneous.
> Below that, you will find a link to the Periodic Table in the form of an
> Access database.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "tony sohl" <tonysohl at cox.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:39 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] periodic table of elements
>
>
> Hi I am taking a geology class and I am looking for the periodic table in
> an
> accessible format that is easy to use. If anyone knows of one or where I
> can
> get my hands on one then let me know.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tonysohl%40cox.net


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From lilrichie411 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 21 23:17:45 2009
From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:17:45 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca301f5e0902211517j64c2f1c1ya48ea07ec2d78e7e@mail.gmail.com>

Merisa,
What version of iTunes are you using?  I have found that JAWS works
best with version 8.0 or later.  That is not to say that it has
perfect accessibility, but JAWS will read the majority of what is in
iTunes.
I use an mp3 player.  You don't have to deal with iTunes' coded files.
Hope this helps,
Jordan

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Merisa Musemic
<merisa.musemic at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi! I downloaded itunes last week. I attempted to setup an account,
> but find that itunes is not accessible with Jaws at all. If anyone can
> help please let me know. I am also wondering what type of music
> devices do some of use. Do some of you use mp3 players or ipods?
> Thanks!
> Merisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com
>


From chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 00:15:51 2009
From: chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com (Chelsea Munoz)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 18:15:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c99482$be124ee0$3a36eca0$@com>

If you have JAWS9, Itunes should work. I have the fourth Generation Ipod
which is also accessible. If you need any more help, let me know.



From solsticesinger at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 01:13:58 2009
From: solsticesinger at gmail.com (solsticesinger)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:13:58 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws
References: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c99482$be124ee0$3a36eca0$@com>
Message-ID: <0C968E4414AB4CCBA49A2FFA8B47FD92@shannon>

Chelsea,

We met last summer at convention. Can you contact me offlist?

Shannon
"The different among us tell our stories because we are all only human and 
so much need a witness to the truth,"
Claudia Bepko
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chelsea Munoz" <chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws


If you have JAWS9, Itunes should work. I have the fourth Generation Ipod
which is also accessible. If you need any more help, let me know.


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com 



From merisa.musemic at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 02:32:54 2009
From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:32:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws
In-Reply-To: <000001c99482$be124ee0$3a36eca0$@com>
References: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c99482$be124ee0$3a36eca0$@com>
Message-ID: <df5bac6d0902211832yd6458c1mf212213054865d4e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks! I do have Jaws 9. When I try to create an acount. I am unable
to move through the diffrent oparts of the form. Is there a way to do
that?
Thanks!
Merisa

On 2/21/09, Chelsea Munoz <chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you have JAWS9, Itunes should work. I have the fourth Generation Ipod
> which is also accessible. If you need any more help, let me know.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merisa.musemic%40gmail.com
>


From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 22 03:38:31 2009
From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:38:31 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws
References: <df5bac6d0902211438i1c7322d3j33426f54b7bffdaf@mail.gmail.com><000001c99482$be124ee0$3a36eca0$@com>
	<df5bac6d0902211832yd6458c1mf212213054865d4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B5956A2D0EED453A86B7B36A7687A327@usore540475a8f>

I have that problem to.
"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Merisa Musemic" <merisa.musemic at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Itunes Accessability With Jaws


> Thanks! I do have Jaws 9. When I try to create an acount. I am unable
> to move through the diffrent oparts of the form. Is there a way to do
> that?
> Thanks!
> Merisa
>
> On 2/21/09, Chelsea Munoz <chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you have JAWS9, Itunes should work. I have the fourth Generation Ipod
>> which is also accessible. If you need any more help, let me know.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/merisa.musemic%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/commanderlumpy2003%40earthlink.net
> 



From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 22 03:56:37 2009
From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:56:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Book Share question
Message-ID: <32C68BF3F8FC4617A8965A07D1E82564@usore540475a8f>

Hello Nabsters. I just down loaded a book from Book Share. I can't copy it from my hard drive to my compac flash drive. I am doing this so I can then copy it to my Braille Note. I use to do this. But now when I try to coppy it wants a pass word. I enter my pass word and nothing happens. What am I doing wrong? I will talk to you later.
"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche

From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net  Sun Feb 22 05:15:28 2009
From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:15:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center
Message-ID: <20090222051602.OESD25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>

Congrats and I hope you got a lot out of it.
Best,
Hannah

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" <freespirit328 at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:05:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center

>Hi Joseph,

>It is, but most likely I would always be with someone when I used 
it, so we
>didn't practice that.

>It wouldn't be safe for me to go alone because of my neurological 
disorder
>which makes me respond slightly slower to things.  For example, I 
would know
>when to cross the street, but my brain wouldn't realize it until 
a few
>seconds after, so my time might not be sufficient enough to cross 
safely.
>Plus profound hearing loss in one ear and absolutely no 
experience with
>getting around alone in places where everyone's a stranger...I 
would have a
>panic attack most defintley.

>Jen

>Shop my AVON online store
>http://jaberdeen.avonrepresentative.com

>Get healthy!
>http://jaberdeen.qhealthbeauty.com

>Contact me:

>Jennifer Aberdeen
>PO Box 1184
>Woonsocket, RI 02895
>401-762-3258 (home)
>401-644-5607 (cell)
>freespirit328 at gmail.com
>SKYPE: J.Aberdeen
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "T.  Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Finally done at training center


>> Jen,

>> Why is a train station not realistic?

>> Joseph

>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:37:28PM -0500, Jennifer Aberdeen 
wrote:
>>>Hi all,

>>>It's Jennifer from Rhode Island.  I don't write too much on the 
list, but I
>>>thought I would send a short message about my experiences at the 
Carroll
>>>Center.

>>>I know...it's not an NFB Center, but in my opinion, it was just 
as good
>>>for someone in my situation.  I learned a great deal of things I 
would have
>>>never learned had I not gone at all.

>>>Cooking I think is my greatest accomplishment.  While I'm still 
not a
>>>gourmet chef, I can cook basic meals.  Food has never been my 
best friend,
>>>so I eat to live as some might say.  I learned how to cook using 
an
>>>induction unit, which is basically a portable burner that I can 
put on a
>>>table at my level so that I don't spill or knock anything over.

>>>Mobility was somewhat of a challange because some things were 
just not
>>>realistic for me.  Learning how to go to the train station to 
take the
>>>train somewhere just isn't a realistic or practical goal for me.  
I did
>>>learn the layout of the area though and how to get from one 
building to
>>>another without assistance...I know the layout of the inside of 
the
>>>buildings like the back of my head.  I even went out to eat with 
some
>>>friends using para transit.  It was very stressful for me, but I 
did it
>>>successfully.  I learn routs very quickly.

>>>I have great computer skills, and I learn things very fast.  I 
learned how
>>>to use K1000, various note takers and how to use a slate and 
stylis.  I
>>>know how to use a digital recorder and the Victor Stream as well.

>>>The best part was that I made a lot of friends, both students and 
staff.  I
>>>was very sad the day I left, but I keep in touch with everyone 
there, so
>>>it's not too bad.

>>>Anyway, that was an  overview of my training in Boston.  I wish I 
could do
>>>it over again.  Now I'm home and bored.  I don't know what to do 
next.

>>>Jen

>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespiri
t328%40gmail.com


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli
cious%40suddenlink.net


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 22 05:31:01 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:31:01 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A Book Share question
References: <32C68BF3F8FC4617A8965A07D1E82564@usore540475a8f>
Message-ID: <24615B4A48E345D6B78963F19DA02BD9@D3ZCJ891>

I have not used the new site, but have you successfully copied a book from 
the new site to your cf card before?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Wassmer" <commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:56 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] A Book Share question


Hello Nabsters. I just down loaded a book from Book Share. I can't copy it 
from my hard drive to my compac flash drive. I am doing this so I can then 
copy it to my Braille Note. I use to do this. But now when I try to coppy it 
wants a pass word. I enter my pass word and nothing happens. What am I doing 
wrong? I will talk to you later.
"You say, Son, let's forget the past,
I want another chance, gonna make it last.
You're begging me for a brand new start,
trying to mend a bridge that's been blown apart,
but you know... you never built it dad." (Queensryche
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 07:01:26 2009
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:01:26 +1100
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
Message-ID: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

I was just wondering if you guys have had a chance to check out our
new Web site at
www.nabslink.org

We've set up a lot of cool features on this Web site and provide a lot
of useful information--all in one place!

We'd really love it if you could take a few minutes to look over the
Web site, and give us some feedback about how it looks, what you like
and what you'd recommend improving!

You can either give us feedback on-list or send an email to the
webmaster link at the bottom of the homepage.

Enjoy!

Arielle Silverman
First Vice-President, NABS


From chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 14:24:31 2009
From: chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com (Chelsea Munoz)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 08:24:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
In-Reply-To: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c994f9$4cb1ad50$e61507f0$@com>

Thanks Arielle; will check it out!



From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 17:20:11 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 09:20:11 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
In-Reply-To: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090222172011.GG91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Arielle,

I went looking for a sample constitution last night, and got two 
links.  The first page had its links all under construction, and the 
second had two sample constitutions in word format, but nobody had a 
version of word old enough to open either one.

The site looks good, but it's missing the important stuff we were 
looking for last night.  Our friends in Texas helped us out in the 
meantime, along with a quick search and replace, plus some other 
small edits.  *grin*

Joseph

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 06:01:26PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I was just wondering if you guys have had a chance to check out our
>new Web site at
>www.nabslink.org
>
>We've set up a lot of cool features on this Web site and provide a lot
>of useful information--all in one place!
>
>We'd really love it if you could take a few minutes to look over the
>Web site, and give us some feedback about how it looks, what you like
>and what you'd recommend improving!
>
>You can either give us feedback on-list or send an email to the
>webmaster link at the bottom of the homepage.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Arielle Silverman
>First Vice-President, NABS
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 18:09:36 2009
From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:09:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Volcanoes
In-Reply-To: <264240731EE54F85B22F3F08121020D4@swenson>
Message-ID: <49a194e5.1f2a400a.4276.ffffda87@mx.google.com>

Dear Tony,
The ones I have seen you can buy at specialty toy stores or science museum
toy/souvenir stores. I suppose you could google it or science museum and a
state for example. I know Maryland, Minnesota, and Texas all have good ones,
many do these days. So does the Smithsonian. I have made my own. You can use
play doh or modeling clay and build a "mountain" leaving a hole in the
middle with a place for a cup at the bottom and a straw or plastic tube. In
all the kits it is vinegar and baking soda that makes the "volcanic"
eruption. You could add some red food coloring I suppose to make it look
like hot lava. I have not tried that and don't know what it would do to the
chemical balance, don't think much.

It works great and is fun. I have done it at Saturday School, and it is fun.

 
 
Carrie Gilmer, President
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
Home Phone: 763-784-8590
carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
www.nfb.org/nopbc
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of tony sohl
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:41 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Volcanos

Hi I am taking a geology class and this is tony Sohl. I am wondering are
there any tactile models of volcanoes? I am looking for tactile models of an
eruption of one. If anyone knows where I can find one then let me know.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai
l.com



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb 22 18:48:29 2009
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:48:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
References: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090222172011.GG91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <000701c9951e$28867df0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good afternoon everyone,

    I'm one of the developers of the NABS Web Site. Here is the direct link 
to the NABS Constitution itself:
http://www.nabslink.org/members/constitution.shtml

        This too can serve to be a model constitution. Others were supposed 
to finish the sections they were responsible for creating hence the "Under 
Construction" pages. Hope this helps.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!


Arielle,

I went looking for a sample constitution last night, and got two
links.  The first page had its links all under construction, and the
second had two sample constitutions in word format, but nobody had a
version of word old enough to open either one.

The site looks good, but it's missing the important stuff we were
looking for last night.  Our friends in Texas helped us out in the
meantime, along with a quick search and replace, plus some other
small edits.  *grin*

Joseph

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 06:01:26PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I was just wondering if you guys have had a chance to check out our
>new Web site at
>www.nabslink.org
>
>We've set up a lot of cool features on this Web site and provide a lot
>of useful information--all in one place!
>
>We'd really love it if you could take a few minutes to look over the
>Web site, and give us some feedback about how it looks, what you like
>and what you'd recommend improving!
>
>You can either give us feedback on-list or send an email to the
>webmaster link at the bottom of the homepage.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Arielle Silverman
>First Vice-President, NABS
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 20:05:19 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:05:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
In-Reply-To: <000701c9951e$28867df0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090222172011.GG91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<000701c9951e$28867df0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <20090222200519.GH91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Thanks Peter--we did get what we needed, as I noted before, by using 
the Texas constitution as a model.  We had to make a couple of minor 
changes we'd like to un-make when we have more students, but you've 
got to start somewhere.  We're just excited to get started.

Joseph

On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:48:29PM -0600, Peter Donahue wrote:
>Good afternoon everyone,
>
>    I'm one of the developers of the NABS Web Site. Here is the direct link 
>to the NABS Constitution itself:
>http://www.nabslink.org/members/constitution.shtml
>
>        This too can serve to be a model constitution. Others were supposed 
>to finish the sections they were responsible for creating hence the "Under 
>Construction" pages. Hope this helps.
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:20 AM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
>
>
>Arielle,
>
>I went looking for a sample constitution last night, and got two
>links.  The first page had its links all under construction, and the
>second had two sample constitutions in word format, but nobody had a
>version of word old enough to open either one.
>
>The site looks good, but it's missing the important stuff we were
>looking for last night.  Our friends in Texas helped us out in the
>meantime, along with a quick search and replace, plus some other
>small edits.  *grin*
>
>Joseph
>
>On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 06:01:26PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I was just wondering if you guys have had a chance to check out our
>>new Web site at
>>www.nabslink.org
>>
>>We've set up a lot of cool features on this Web site and provide a lot
>>of useful information--all in one place!
>>
>>We'd really love it if you could take a few minutes to look over the
>>Web site, and give us some feedback about how it looks, what you like
>>and what you'd recommend improving!
>>
>>You can either give us feedback on-list or send an email to the
>>webmaster link at the bottom of the homepage.
>>
>>Enjoy!
>>
>>Arielle Silverman
>>First Vice-President, NABS
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From corbbo at gmail.com  Sun Feb 22 20:07:32 2009
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:07:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a large print foreign language textbook question
In-Reply-To: <936371.38754.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <936371.38754.qm@web65616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FEA29270-1531-4545-89AE-ECF25A3194C8@gmail.com>

Hi Cindy,

When in Spanish classes, I used RFB&Ds versions of the books. They  
worked quite well, too.

-----
Corbb O'Connor
The George Washington University '10
B.A. Political Communication & Economics

On Feb 19, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Cindy Bennett wrote:

I have a friend who is not on this list. She is currently encountering  
a problem with being able to have access to her Spanish textbooks. She  
reads all of her other books electronically just fine, but her Spanish  
books do not scan clearly enough for anyone to be able to understand.  
She cannot see the print that is in the textbook, and when the company  
was asked, they said that they did not sell any large print books, nor  
did they have an electronic copy that they were willing to release to  
her.

I was curious if any of you have encountered this situation, i was  
unsure of what to say since i am totally blind and am at a school who  
is willing to buy me brailled foreign language texts. You can reply  
off list so i can put you in contact with her. I appreciate any advice.

Thanks
Cindy Bennett
President: NC Association of Blind Students




_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
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From jmassay1 at cox.net  Sun Feb 22 20:37:36 2009
From: jmassay1 at cox.net (JMassay)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:37:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS-l Done at Training Center
Message-ID: <4357D13433494C90B287C9527CFE9CAD@MERLIN>

Jenn,

Everything you learned to do is a part of living every day.  We are all only
limited by what we choose to allow to do so,.I do congratulate you on
finishing, I too, went to the Carroll Center.  In many ways, I wish that I
had gone to an NFB Center but am glad I learned mobility from Heather Platt.
The rest of your life starts here: start living.

Jeannie Massay


From jmassay1 at cox.net  Sun Feb 22 20:42:38 2009
From: jmassay1 at cox.net (JMassay)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 14:42:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] a booksharequestion
Message-ID: <7A84CA6AF0FA4836BDF808B71FFC6C80@MERLIN>

Kevin,

Hi!  You now have to unzip the bookshare file.  From the list view, go to
the file menu, arrow down to unpack all file and press enter.this will bring
up a unpack wizard.  Follow the directions.  When you get to a password
button, you must enter your bookshare password.  Follow the remaining
directions.  When you finish you will have 2 files.  One zipped, which will
announce that it is a zipped file and one that will announce only the name
of the book and your name.  

Hope that helps,

Jeannie Massay 

Oklahoma 


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 02:15:58 2009
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Notebook Research Sites
Message-ID: <69805683CC704DEFAA11AA914D204649@MonkeyPaw>

Hello,

Sorry for the cross-post.  I figure these two lists might see the largest
audiences for notebook purchases.  I'm currently in the market for a new
notebook, and my two most highly recommended sites for those of you in the
midst of, or on the verge of, purchasing a new system are:

www.NoteBookReview.com/

And

www.LapTopMag.com/

I know investing in computers can be a time-consuming endeavor.  I'm going
on the third day of investigating good models, but I hope these sites will
make the process as easy for you as it has been for me.

Best,

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie



From ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 23 03:04:00 2009
From: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com (Cindy Garcia)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:04:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
Message-ID: <327678.30233.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>



Cindy Garcia
Music Major
PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
Skype: cinraymel06Hello, my name is Cindy Garcia and I'm a student at San antonio College here in Texas. I wanted to introduce myself here on this list. My major is music education. I hope to teach people of all ages about the art of music, and to show them my love for singing so that they may sing and have fun. I look forward to learning alot from this list.


      


From blind.subscriber at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 05:02:29 2009
From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:02:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <327678.30233.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <327678.30233.qm@web54605.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAPyGL/qhJi9Hoo+KTsPHlFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>

Welcome Cindy, I hope you enjoy networking with your fellow students.

Are you connected with the Student Division in Texas? There are a few
connected to the list serve, and I am sure will be contacting you if you are
not.

Sincerely,

Mandarino


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Garcia
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:04 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction



Cindy Garcia
Music Major
PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
Skype: cinraymel06Hello, my name is Cindy Garcia and I'm a student at San
antonio College here in Texas. I wanted to introduce myself here on this
list. My major is music education. I hope to teach people of all ages about
the art of music, and to show them my love for singing so that they may sing
and have fun. I look forward to learning alot from this list.


      

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
mail.com



From ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 23 05:23:14 2009
From: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com (Cindy Garcia)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:23:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAPyGL/qhJi9Hoo+KTsPHlFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <221793.99147.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Well I have been to the tabs stuff a little bit buy I didn't talk to many people. Now that I'm VP. of my chapter, I plan to meet alot more people and get way more involved. thank you for thinking of me.

Cindy Garcia
Music Major
PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
Skype: cinraymel06


--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 11:02 PM
> Welcome Cindy, I hope you enjoy networking with your fellow
> students.
> 
> Are you connected with the Student Division in Texas? There
> are a few
> connected to the list serve, and I am sure will be
> contacting you if you are
> not.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mandarino
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Garcia
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:04 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
> 
> 
> 
> Cindy Garcia
> Music Major
> PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
> email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
> Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
> Skype: cinraymel06Hello, my name is Cindy Garcia and
> I'm a student at San
> antonio College here in Texas. I wanted to introduce myself
> here on this
> list. My major is music education. I hope to teach people
> of all ages about
> the art of music, and to show them my love for singing so
> that they may sing
> and have fun. I look forward to learning alot from this
> list.
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
> mail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccgarcia2005%40yahoo.com


      


From len at gatamundo.com  Mon Feb 23 05:44:09 2009
From: len at gatamundo.com (Len Burns)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:44:09 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
Message-ID: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>

Good evening all,

My name is Len Burns.  I am a returning student who finished my M.A. in
Family Counseling back in the eighties.  I was laid off about a year and
a half ago, from a good position with a mid-sized non-profit here in San
Jose California.  I found myself in the strange position of being over
qualified for entry level positions, and lacking the credentials for
management level.  I discussed this with several people whom I respect in my
field, and they all said the same thing.  Take course work.

So, I found a certificate program in Business Admin that met everybody's
requirements, and last October I began my adventure.

Fortunately for me, I have also had a foot in the tech field for many 
years, so centering my life around my laptop was not new.  Thus far, 
what surprises me most is how much technology has changed how I manage 
classes, and simultaneously how similar the headaches are to what they 
were when I was in school in the eighties.  I am here in part to 
strengthen strategies for things like the two statistics classes that 
are the next steps on my path.  I did stats as an under grad, and did 
well at it.  This will be a different flavour however.  That was social 
science stats, this is for business.  While I am here, I will contribute 
whatever bits of knowledge I am able, although I am fairly certain many 
of you are far more adept at this dance than am I.

In my spare time, I manage several email lists, have been baking bread 
since I was in my early teens, and am chief of staff for a fluffy feline 
we mostly just call Gata.

Two years ago, I would have never imagined myself in this circumstance, 
but the same can be said for lotta lotta other folks these days.

-Len
len at gatamundo.com


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Feb 23 06:21:48 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 22:21:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
Message-ID: <02F0187524FE45A99A669DF4BF9FAC2B@D3ZCJ891>

    Hi, my name is Nicole. You still in CA? I'm at Stanford. So... you 
conform to the general consensus that
"Dogs have masters and cats have staff?" (joke)
I don't have a cat, but would if I could. Instead, a loyal female black lab 
guide dog receives all the love, if not more, that a cat would receive.

Nicole and my guide dog Lexia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Len Burns" <len at gatamundo.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro


Good evening all,

My name is Len Burns.  I am a returning student who finished my M.A. in
Family Counseling back in the eighties.  I was laid off about a year and
a half ago, from a good position with a mid-sized non-profit here in San
Jose California.  I found myself in the strange position of being over
qualified for entry level positions, and lacking the credentials for
management level.  I discussed this with several people whom I respect in my
field, and they all said the same thing.  Take course work.

So, I found a certificate program in Business Admin that met everybody's
requirements, and last October I began my adventure.

Fortunately for me, I have also had a foot in the tech field for many
years, so centering my life around my laptop was not new.  Thus far,
what surprises me most is how much technology has changed how I manage
classes, and simultaneously how similar the headaches are to what they
were when I was in school in the eighties.  I am here in part to
strengthen strategies for things like the two statistics classes that
are the next steps on my path.  I did stats as an under grad, and did
well at it.  This will be a different flavour however.  That was social
science stats, this is for business.  While I am here, I will contribute
whatever bits of knowledge I am able, although I am fairly certain many
of you are far more adept at this dance than am I.

In my spare time, I manage several email lists, have been baking bread
since I was in my early teens, and am chief of staff for a fluffy feline
we mostly just call Gata.

Two years ago, I would have never imagined myself in this circumstance,
but the same can be said for lotta lotta other folks these days.

-Len
len at gatamundo.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 11:53:58 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 06:53:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
References: <221793.99147.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004701c995ad$6a4c35b0$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Hi Cindy welcome to the list. My name is Rania, I live in nj and am 
currently in the process of looking in to another school to go to so I can 
finish up and become a massage therapist. This list has been vary helpful. 
Feel free to ask questions.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Garcia" <ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction


>
> Well I have been to the tabs stuff a little bit buy I didn't talk to many 
> people. Now that I'm VP. of my chapter, I plan to meet alot more people 
> and get way more involved. thank you for thinking of me.
>
> Cindy Garcia
> Music Major
> PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
> email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
> Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
> Skype: cinraymel06
>
>
> --- On Sun, 2/22/09, Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 11:02 PM
>> Welcome Cindy, I hope you enjoy networking with your fellow
>> students.
>>
>> Are you connected with the Student Division in Texas? There
>> are a few
>> connected to the list serve, and I am sure will be
>> contacting you if you are
>> not.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Mandarino
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Garcia
>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:04 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
>>
>>
>>
>> Cindy Garcia
>> Music Major
>> PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
>> email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
>> Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
>> Skype: cinraymel06Hello, my name is Cindy Garcia and
>> I'm a student at San
>> antonio College here in Texas. I wanted to introduce myself
>> here on this
>> list. My major is music education. I hope to teach people
>> of all ages about
>> the art of music, and to show them my love for singing so
>> that they may sing
>> and have fun. I look forward to learning alot from this
>> list.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccgarcia2005%40yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 11:56:58 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 06:56:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
Message-ID: <005901c995ad$d56d7110$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Hi welcome to the list. My name is Rania, I live in nj and am currently 
looking for another school to attend so I can finish up and become a massage 
therapist. I look forward to reading your posts.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Len Burns" <len at gatamundo.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:44 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro


> Good evening all,
>
> My name is Len Burns.  I am a returning student who finished my M.A. in
> Family Counseling back in the eighties.  I was laid off about a year and
> a half ago, from a good position with a mid-sized non-profit here in San
> Jose California.  I found myself in the strange position of being over
> qualified for entry level positions, and lacking the credentials for
> management level.  I discussed this with several people whom I respect in 
> my
> field, and they all said the same thing.  Take course work.
>
> So, I found a certificate program in Business Admin that met everybody's
> requirements, and last October I began my adventure.
>
> Fortunately for me, I have also had a foot in the tech field for many 
> years, so centering my life around my laptop was not new.  Thus far, what 
> surprises me most is how much technology has changed how I manage classes, 
> and simultaneously how similar the headaches are to what they were when I 
> was in school in the eighties.  I am here in part to strengthen strategies 
> for things like the two statistics classes that are the next steps on my 
> path.  I did stats as an under grad, and did well at it.  This will be a 
> different flavour however.  That was social science stats, this is for 
> business.  While I am here, I will contribute whatever bits of knowledge I 
> am able, although I am fairly certain many of you are far more adept at 
> this dance than am I.
>
> In my spare time, I manage several email lists, have been baking bread 
> since I was in my early teens, and am chief of staff for a fluffy feline 
> we mostly just call Gata.
>
> Two years ago, I would have never imagined myself in this circumstance, 
> but the same can be said for lotta lotta other folks these days.
>
> -Len
> len at gatamundo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net  Mon Feb 23 14:34:25 2009
From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 06:34:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
Message-ID: <20090223143451.YUIJ25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>

Hi Welcome to the list.  My name is Hannah and I'm a student in 
high school.  I live in Arcata California.
Hannah

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Cindy Garcia <ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:04:00 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction



>Cindy Garcia
>Music Major
>PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
>email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
>Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
>Skype: cinraymel06Hello, my name is Cindy Garcia and I'm a 
student at San antonio College here in Texas.  I wanted to 
introduce myself here on this list.  My major is music education.  
I hope to teach people of all ages about the art of music, and to 
show them my love for singing so that they may sing and have fun.  
I look forward to learning alot from this list.




>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli
cious%40suddenlink.net


From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net  Mon Feb 23 14:34:29 2009
From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 06:34:29 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
Message-ID: <20090223143455.YUJD25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>

Welcome to the list Len.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Len Burns <len at gatamundo.com
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:44:09 -0800
>Subject: [nabs-l] Intro

>Good evening all,

>My name is Len Burns.  I am a returning student who finished my 
M.A.  in
>Family Counseling back in the eighties.  I was laid off about a 
year and
>a half ago, from a good position with a mid-sized non-profit here 
in San
>Jose California.  I found myself in the strange position of being 
over
>qualified for entry level positions, and lacking the credentials 
for
>management level.  I discussed this with several people whom I 
respect in my
>field, and they all said the same thing.  Take course work.

>So, I found a certificate program in Business Admin that met 
everybody's
>requirements, and last October I began my adventure.

>Fortunately for me, I have also had a foot in the tech field for 
many
>years, so centering my life around my laptop was not new.  Thus 
far,
>what surprises me most is how much technology has changed how I 
manage
>classes, and simultaneously how similar the headaches are to what 
they
>were when I was in school in the eighties.  I am here in part to
>strengthen strategies for things like the two statistics classes 
that
>are the next steps on my path.  I did stats as an under grad, and 
did
>well at it.  This will be a different flavour however.  That was 
social
>science stats, this is for business.  While I am here, I will 
contribute
>whatever bits of knowledge I am able, although I am fairly 
certain many
>of you are far more adept at this dance than am I.

>In my spare time, I manage several email lists, have been baking 
bread
>since I was in my early teens, and am chief of staff for a fluffy 
feline
>we mostly just call Gata.

>Two years ago, I would have never imagined myself in this 
circumstance,
>but the same can be said for lotta lotta other folks these days.

>-Len
>len at gatamundo.com

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli
cious%40suddenlink.net


From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 18:01:02 2009
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:01:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
In-Reply-To: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
Message-ID: <012901c995e0$b1f5aad0$15e10070$@com>

Hey Len,
Welcome to the list.
Hope you have fun on this list,
Sincerely,
Karrie

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Len Burns
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:44 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro

Good evening all,

My name is Len Burns.  I am a returning student who finished my M.A. in
Family Counseling back in the eighties.  I was laid off about a year and
a half ago, from a good position with a mid-sized non-profit here in San
Jose California.  I found myself in the strange position of being over
qualified for entry level positions, and lacking the credentials for
management level.  I discussed this with several people whom I respect in my
field, and they all said the same thing.  Take course work.

So, I found a certificate program in Business Admin that met everybody's
requirements, and last October I began my adventure.

Fortunately for me, I have also had a foot in the tech field for many 
years, so centering my life around my laptop was not new.  Thus far, 
what surprises me most is how much technology has changed how I manage 
classes, and simultaneously how similar the headaches are to what they 
were when I was in school in the eighties.  I am here in part to 
strengthen strategies for things like the two statistics classes that 
are the next steps on my path.  I did stats as an under grad, and did 
well at it.  This will be a different flavour however.  That was social 
science stats, this is for business.  While I am here, I will contribute 
whatever bits of knowledge I am able, although I am fairly certain many 
of you are far more adept at this dance than am I.

In my spare time, I manage several email lists, have been baking bread 
since I was in my early teens, and am chief of staff for a fluffy feline 
we mostly just call Gata.

Two years ago, I would have never imagined myself in this circumstance, 
but the same can be said for lotta lotta other folks these days.

-Len
len at gatamundo.com

_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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ail.com
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09
17:21:00

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Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/23/09
07:17:00



From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 18:02:27 2009
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:02:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <221793.99147.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAADSA47abc95Akm8BjFP8CtFChgsAEAAAAPyGL/qhJi9Hoo+KTsPHlFYBAAAAAA==@gmail.com>
	<221793.99147.qm@web54607.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <013001c995e0$e4214b90$ac63e2b0$@com>

Hey cindy,
Welcome to the list.
Sincerely,
Karrie

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Garcia
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction


Well I have been to the tabs stuff a little bit buy I didn't talk to many
people. Now that I'm VP. of my chapter, I plan to meet alot more people and
get way more involved. thank you for thinking of me.

Cindy Garcia
Music Major
PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
Skype: cinraymel06


--- On Sun, 2/22/09, Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jason Mandarino <blind.subscriber at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Introduction
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 11:02 PM
> Welcome Cindy, I hope you enjoy networking with your fellow
> students.
> 
> Are you connected with the Student Division in Texas? There
> are a few
> connected to the list serve, and I am sure will be
> contacting you if you are
> not.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mandarino
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Garcia
> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 10:04 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Introduction
> 
> 
> 
> Cindy Garcia
> Music Major
> PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
> email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
> Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
> Skype: cinraymel06Hello, my name is Cindy Garcia and
> I'm a student at San
> antonio College here in Texas. I wanted to introduce myself
> here on this
> list. My major is music education. I hope to teach people
> of all ages about
> the art of music, and to show them my love for singing so
> that they may sing
> and have fun. I look forward to learning alot from this
> list.
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g
> mail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccgarcia2005%40yahoo
.com


      

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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ail.com
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/22/09
17:21:00

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1966 - Release Date: 02/23/09
07:17:00



From tony.sales at rncb.ac.uk  Mon Feb 23 19:44:39 2009
From: tony.sales at rncb.ac.uk (Anthony Sales)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:44:39 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Vinux 1.3 Released!
Message-ID: <auto-000089997014@mailfront2.g2host.com>


Vinux 1.3 Released!

drbongo and ald0 are proud to announce the new release of Vinux - Linux for
the Visually Impaired!

This release includes a variety of new packages and features, as well as
solutions for bugs in earlier versions:

It includes a range of useful console applications and the yasr
screen-reader, a selection of forensic/recovery tools so it can be used as an
accessible recovery CD/USB pendrive by more experienced users. You can now
install it straight to a USB pendrive using the Ubuntu USB installer, from
the live CD or the ISO image once installed to hard drive. The username and
password entered during the installation process is now retained and of
course Orca, a full-screen magnifier and Braille support are all available
out of the box! If you would like to try it out or read more details then
please follow these links:

Vinux 1.3 ISO image - http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/latest_(1.3).iso

Vinux 1.3 MD5SUM - http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/latest_md5sum-1.3.txt

Vinux 1.3 Release Announcement -
http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/latest_release_announcement-1.3.txt

Vinux 1.3 Keybindings etc - http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/1.3/

There is one known issue in this release, the cups server does not work when
you install it to a hard drive, although it works fine from the live CD or a
USB pendrive install. There is a very simple fix for this which you can
implement once you have installed it if you want to print out any documents.
There is a script which will do this for you, or you can simply type the four
lines into the terminal using the sudo command!

Vinux Cups Fix Script http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/old/1.3/cupsfix.sh

If you have any questions or would like to give us feedback, please register
on the Vinux Forum/Mailing List so as not to clog up these mailing lists with
posts which may not be relevant to this mailing list.

Vinux Forum/Mailing List: http://groups.google.com/group/vinux-development

have fun,

drbongo and ald0




From chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 20:11:57 2009
From: chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com (Chelsea Munoz)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:11:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
In-Reply-To: <012901c995e0$b1f5aad0$15e10070$@com>
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
	<012901c995e0$b1f5aad0$15e10070$@com>
Message-ID: <000301c995f3$048275a0$0d8760e0$@com>

Hi to all the newbies; I'm a newbie, too.
My name is Chelsea, and I'm a first year college student from Austin, TX.
I look forward to being an active participant in the discussions, and to
talking to people off list as well!



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Feb 23 21:52:28 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:52:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Bargains: Portable Solutions,
 Innovators lead 2008 Blind  Bargains Access Award Winners
Message-ID: <auto-000090027433@mailfront2.g2host.com>



Blind Bargains: Portable Solutions, Innovators lead 2008 Blind 
Bargains Access Award Winners

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Media Contact: J.J. Meddaugh
Phone: (989) 284-7915
Email: bargains at blindbargains.com



Portable Solutions, Innovators lead 2008 Blind Bargains Access Award Winners





Hundreds of votes cast for 2nd Annual Event

Kalamazoo, MI, February 23, 2008 - After much anticipation and the 
casting of hundreds of votes, the results have been released for the 
2nd annual Blind Bargains Access Awards. The awards recognize the 
achievements of companies and individuals in the assistive technology 
arena and beyond and were decided by visitors to BlindBargains.com, a 
leading online resource for the blind and visually impaired.

Leading the pack for this year is the KNFB Reading Technology K-NFB 
Reader Mobile, a software package which uses a cellular phone and 
text-to-speech technology to read printed material. Winning in the 
areas of Best Software and Product of the Year, the selection 
continues a trend of portable devices garnering top recognition by 
site readers. "Our readers have a keen eye for recognizing the most 
influential products currently available and have made some excellent 
choices," commented J.J. Meddaugh, lead webmaster for Blind Bargains 
and a contest administrator.

The HumanWare Victor Reader Stream took home the Best Hardware 
category for a second year in a row, winning by the widest margin of 
any product. Other repeat winners include Freedom Scientific's JAWS 
for Windows as best screen reader, Independent Living Aids as best 
store, and the Fred's Head Companion as best blindness-related blog.

Long a staple for free Windows-based accessible games, Jim Kitchen's 
Kitchensinc Games took home the best accessible game award for their 
rendition of Monopoly. The program has undergone several updates and 
is highly configurable. Speaking of entertainment, Blind Cool Tech 
was the winner of the best blindness-related podcast category, a new 
edition to this year's voting. It features recordings on technology, 
human interest, and general blindness subjects.

With the conversion to digital talking books by the National Library 
Service, much attention has been given to a new pilot website which 
offers downloadable recordings of popular book titles. This website 
was recognized by readers as website of the year. The best company 
honor was awarded to Kurzweil Educational Systems, makers of the 
popular Kurzweil 1000 scanning program for Windows-based computers. 
Now at version 11, it has been a mainstay in optical character 
recognition for over a decade.

Ray Kurzweil has helped to pioneer many of the technologies which 
have changed the lives for millions of individuals. From the creation 
of the first scanner to read printed text to his endeavors with 
musical synthesis, his accomplishments cannot be overlooked. Blind 
Bargains readers recognized these achievements by awarding the person 
of the year honor to Kurzweil.

The Blind Bargains Access Awards were based entirely on reader 
submissions. A nomination period was held in early January and 
followed by a voting round. It was administered by A T Guys, LLC.

For a complete list of winners and nominees, please visit 
<http://www.blindbargains.com/awardlist08.php>http://www.blindbargains.com/awardlist08.php 


BlindBargains.com is a premier online destination featuring news, 
deals, and articles relevant to the blind and visually impaired. 
Visitors can find the lowest prices for useful products ranging from 
technology items to household gadgets through the site, Email, 
Twitter, or RSS. Other site features include user comments, an EBay 
Auction Gateway, and a merchant search portal.

A T Guys, LLC, the assistive technology experts, offer a wide variety 
of hardware and software solutions for budget-minded consumers and 
businesses. A premier Code Factory distributor, the company's 
portfolio of products includes mobile phone and PDA software, bar 
code readers, and online services.



David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 22:32:14 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:32:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
In-Reply-To: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
Message-ID: <49a323ba.0c2d400a.4799.ffff922b@mx.google.com>

Len, 

Welcome to the list. My name is Liz, and I am currently living in Delaware.
I'm in the process of helping to start a student division here in this small
state. I graduated with my Bachelor's degree about a year ago, and have been
looking for a job since then, with little success thus far, but good things
come to those who wait, or so they say. 

Some of my interests include reading, writing, computers/technology and
traveling. 

Take care, and again, welcome, 

Liz 

Email:
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 
Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March
for Independence:
http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
m&fr_id=1050




From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net  Mon Feb 23 22:46:03 2009
From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:46:03 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
Message-ID: <20090223224627.GSBO25379.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>

welcome everyone.

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chelsea Munoz" <chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:11:57 -0600
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Intro

>Hi to all the newbies; I'm a newbie, too.
>My name is Chelsea, and I'm a first year college student from 
Austin, TX.
>I look forward to being an active participant in the discussions, 
and to
>talking to people off list as well!


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sparklyli
cious%40suddenlink.net


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 22:55:33 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:55:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com><012901c995e0$b1f5aad0$15e10070$@com>
	<000301c995f3$048275a0$0d8760e0$@com>
Message-ID: <000901c99609$d7297420$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Hi Welcome to the list. My name is Rania,
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chelsea Munoz" <chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Intro


> Hi to all the newbies; I'm a newbie, too.
> My name is Chelsea, and I'm a first year college student from Austin, TX.
> I look forward to being an active participant in the discussions, and to
> talking to people off list as well!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 24 10:55:13 2009
From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob Lambert)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:55:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Vinux 1.3 Released!
In-Reply-To: <auto-000089997014@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <643727.91321.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

The ISO image link is invalid.

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Anthony Sales <tony.sales at rncb.ac.uk> wrote:
From: Anthony Sales <tony.sales at rncb.ac.uk>
Subject: [nabs-l] Vinux 1.3 Released!
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:44 AM

Vinux 1.3 Released!

drbongo and ald0 are proud to announce the new release of Vinux - Linux for
the Visually Impaired!

This release includes a variety of new packages and features, as well as
solutions for bugs in earlier versions:

It includes a range of useful console applications and the yasr
screen-reader, a selection of forensic/recovery tools so it can be used as an
accessible recovery CD/USB pendrive by more experienced users. You can now
install it straight to a USB pendrive using the Ubuntu USB installer, from
the live CD or the ISO image once installed to hard drive. The username and
password entered during the installation process is now retained and of
course Orca, a full-screen magnifier and Braille support are all available
out of the box! If you would like to try it out or read more details then
please follow these links:

Vinux 1.3 ISO image - http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/latest_(1.3).iso

Vinux 1.3 MD5SUM - http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/latest_md5sum-1.3.txt

Vinux 1.3 Release Announcement -
http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/latest_release_announcement-1.3.txt

Vinux 1.3 Keybindings etc - http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/1.3/

There is one known issue in this release, the cups server does not work when
you install it to a hard drive, although it works fine from the live CD or a
USB pendrive install. There is a very simple fix for this which you can
implement once you have installed it if you want to print out any documents.
There is a script which will do this for you, or you can simply type the four
lines into the terminal using the sudo command!

Vinux Cups Fix Script http://vinux.org.uk/downloads/old/1.3/cupsfix.sh

If you have any questions or would like to give us feedback, please register
on the Vinux Forum/Mailing List so as not to clog up these mailing lists with
posts which may not be relevant to this mailing list.

Vinux Forum/Mailing List: http://groups.google.com/group/vinux-development

have fun,

drbongo and ald0



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com



      

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 24 18:52:05 2009
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:52:05 +1100
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
In-Reply-To: <20090222200519.GH91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
References: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090222172011.GG91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<000701c9951e$28867df0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<20090222200519.GH91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
Message-ID: <b6b933030902241052n750979c6ta360709140fed011@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Joseph,

Is this for Oregon?

Good luck!
Arielle

On 2/23/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Peter--we did get what we needed, as I noted before, by using
> the Texas constitution as a model.  We had to make a couple of minor
> changes we'd like to un-make when we have more students, but you've
> got to start somewhere.  We're just excited to get started.
>
> Joseph
>
> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:48:29PM -0600, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>Good afternoon everyone,
>>
>>    I'm one of the developers of the NABS Web Site. Here is the direct link
>>
>>to the NABS Constitution itself:
>>http://www.nabslink.org/members/constitution.shtml
>>
>>        This too can serve to be a model constitution. Others were supposed
>>
>>to finish the sections they were responsible for creating hence the "Under
>>Construction" pages. Hope this helps.
>>
>>Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:20 AM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
>>
>>
>>Arielle,
>>
>>I went looking for a sample constitution last night, and got two
>>links.  The first page had its links all under construction, and the
>>second had two sample constitutions in word format, but nobody had a
>>version of word old enough to open either one.
>>
>>The site looks good, but it's missing the important stuff we were
>>looking for last night.  Our friends in Texas helped us out in the
>>meantime, along with a quick search and replace, plus some other
>>small edits.  *grin*
>>
>>Joseph
>>
>>On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 06:01:26PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>I was just wondering if you guys have had a chance to check out our
>>>new Web site at
>>>www.nabslink.org
>>>
>>>We've set up a lot of cool features on this Web site and provide a lot
>>>of useful information--all in one place!
>>>
>>>We'd really love it if you could take a few minutes to look over the
>>>Web site, and give us some feedback about how it looks, what you like
>>>and what you'd recommend improving!
>>>
>>>You can either give us feedback on-list or send an email to the
>>>webmaster link at the bottom of the homepage.
>>>
>>>Enjoy!
>>>
>>>Arielle Silverman
>>>First Vice-President, NABS
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Tue Feb 24 21:38:07 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:38:07 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
In-Reply-To: <b6b933030902241052n750979c6ta360709140fed011@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b6b933030902212301t1c03b804ide94e10b1f5374cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090222172011.GG91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<000701c9951e$28867df0$210110ac@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<20090222200519.GH91686@yumi.bluecherry.net>
	<b6b933030902241052n750979c6ta360709140fed011@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090224213807.GA9636@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Arielle,

Yes, it was for Oregon.  We got it, made the necessary changes to 
account for the five (plus Haben who could not make it) members we 
now have, and we formed the affiliate.  We did this in the midst of 
our state's membership and legislative seminar, and we were all 
pretty well exhausted afterward, so we haven't gotten around to 
reporting back properly and all.

I'm in class now, so I'm going to stop typing and at least act like a 
good student.  *grin*

Joseph

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 05:52:05AM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>Hi Joseph,
>
>Is this for Oregon?
>
>Good luck!
>Arielle
>
>On 2/23/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Peter--we did get what we needed, as I noted before, by using
>> the Texas constitution as a model.  We had to make a couple of minor
>> changes we'd like to un-make when we have more students, but you've
>> got to start somewhere.  We're just excited to get started.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 12:48:29PM -0600, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>Good afternoon everyone,
>>>
>>>    I'm one of the developers of the NABS Web Site. Here is the direct link
>>>
>>>to the NABS Constitution itself:
>>>http://www.nabslink.org/members/constitution.shtml
>>>
>>>        This too can serve to be a model constitution. Others were supposed
>>>
>>>to finish the sections they were responsible for creating hence the "Under
>>>Construction" pages. Hope this helps.
>>>
>>>Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "T. Joseph Carter" <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:20 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NABS Web Site!
>>>
>>>
>>>Arielle,
>>>
>>>I went looking for a sample constitution last night, and got two
>>>links.  The first page had its links all under construction, and the
>>>second had two sample constitutions in word format, but nobody had a
>>>version of word old enough to open either one.
>>>
>>>The site looks good, but it's missing the important stuff we were
>>>looking for last night.  Our friends in Texas helped us out in the
>>>meantime, along with a quick search and replace, plus some other
>>>small edits.  *grin*
>>>
>>>Joseph
>>>
>>>On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 06:01:26PM +1100, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>>>Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>I was just wondering if you guys have had a chance to check out our
>>>>new Web site at
>>>>www.nabslink.org
>>>>
>>>>We've set up a lot of cool features on this Web site and provide a lot
>>>>of useful information--all in one place!
>>>>
>>>>We'd really love it if you could take a few minutes to look over the
>>>>Web site, and give us some feedback about how it looks, what you like
>>>>and what you'd recommend improving!
>>>>
>>>>You can either give us feedback on-list or send an email to the
>>>>webmaster link at the bottom of the homepage.
>>>>
>>>>Enjoy!
>>>>
>>>>Arielle Silverman
>>>>First Vice-President, NABS
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>nabs-l:
>>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com  Wed Feb 25 17:45:26 2009
From: queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com (Marsha)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:45:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro
In-Reply-To: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
References: <49A237A9.8070906@gatamundo.com>
Message-ID: <27424B59B2324A4DA4B1E447FD693995@Cptr233>


Hello Len,
Nice to meet you here. My name is Marsha, currently not a student but will
be going back to school in the fall to finally get my LCSW degree. I
currently live in Baltimore, Maryland, but am originally from texas. This is
a great group for resources and information. If you need any thing or just
want to talk, send me a email. My contact info will be at the bottom of the
email. 
Have a good day,
Marsha

Email: queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Len Burns
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:44 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Intro

Good evening all,

My name is Len Burns.  I am a returning student who finished my M.A. in
Family Counseling back in the eighties.  I was laid off about a year and
a half ago, from a good position with a mid-sized non-profit here in San
Jose California.  I found myself in the strange position of being over
qualified for entry level positions, and lacking the credentials for
management level.  I discussed this with several people whom I respect in my
field, and they all said the same thing.  Take course work.

So, I found a certificate program in Business Admin that met everybody's
requirements, and last October I began my adventure.

Fortunately for me, I have also had a foot in the tech field for many 
years, so centering my life around my laptop was not new.  Thus far, 
what surprises me most is how much technology has changed how I manage 
classes, and simultaneously how similar the headaches are to what they 
were when I was in school in the eighties.  I am here in part to 
strengthen strategies for things like the two statistics classes that 
are the next steps on my path.  I did stats as an under grad, and did 
well at it.  This will be a different flavour however.  That was social 
science stats, this is for business.  While I am here, I will contribute 
whatever bits of knowledge I am able, although I am fairly certain many 
of you are far more adept at this dance than am I.

In my spare time, I manage several email lists, have been baking bread 
since I was in my early teens, and am chief of staff for a fluffy feline 
we mostly just call Gata.

Two years ago, I would have never imagined myself in this circumstance, 
but the same can be said for lotta lotta other folks these days.

-Len
len at gatamundo.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/queen.marsha.lindsey
%40gmail.com
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3879 (20090223) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3889 (20090225) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From atchisonrichard72 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 25 21:26:56 2009
From: atchisonrichard72 at gmail.com (Richard Atchison)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:26:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
Message-ID: <33920e820902251326x7203124ah8317b82d76e56b70@mail.gmail.com>

My name is Richard. Not sure how all of this works. I was wanting to
say "hi"  to everybody.


From Maurice.Sloane at humanware.com  Wed Feb 25 22:17:51 2009
From: Maurice.Sloane at humanware.com (Maurice Sloane)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:17:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] KeySoft 8: Tek Talk Presentation March 2
Message-ID: <auto-000090430293@mailfront2.g2host.com>

The following Tek Talk presentation on KeySoft 8 is scheduled for Monday
March 02, 2009, 5:0pm Pacific time.



KeySoft 8



At the Cutting Edge of Communication



Presenters:

Greg Stilson, HumanWare Product and Support Specialist

Phone; 800-722-3393

Greg.stilson at humanware.com



Dave Wilkinson, HumanWare US Western Region Blindness Product Specialist

Phone; 800-22-3393, ext. 241

Dave.wilkinson at humanware.com



Background

Greg Stilson and Dave Wilkinson travel throughout the United States
providing product trainings and presentations and getting customer
feedback for product functionality and improvement.  Greg and Dave work
closely with the Technical Support staff and are involved in product
research. Both have been BrailleNote users since its inception.



KeySoft 8 has been eagerly anticipated by BrailleNote mPower and PK
users. It offers the latest in chat capabilities, support for
Audible.com books, support for NIMAS books, direct access to the new
Bookshare.org web site, greatly enhanced HP printer support, a free
90-day test drive of the widely acclaimed Sendero GPS package, and more.



Date:  Monday, March 2, 2009.



Time:  5:00 p.m. Pacific, 6:00 p.m. Mountain, 7:00 p.m. Central, 8:00 PM

                    Eastern and elsewhere in the world Tuesday 1:00 GMT.



Where:  The Pat Price Tek Talk Training Room at:



http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsc9613dc89eb2



Or, alternatively,



http://www.accessibleworld.org <http://www.accessibleworld.org/> .
Select The Pat Price Tek Talk Training Room, enter your first and last
names on the sign-in screen.



All Tek Talk training events are recorded so if you are unable to
participate live at the above times then you may download the
presentation or podcast from the Tek Talk archives on our website at
http://www.accessibleworld.org <http://www.accessibleworld.org/> .



All online interactive programs require no password, are free of charge,
and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a computer,
speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly
with the presenters and others in the virtual audience.

If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online
conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you
need to download and then run. A link to the software is available on
every entry screen to the Accessible World online rooms.



Sign up information for all Accessible World News Wires and discussion
lists are also available at our website: http://www.accessibleworld.org
<http://www.accessibleworld.org/> .





________________



Maurice Sloane

HumanWare NZ



Direct Dial +64 3 940 2223

Mobile: +64 21 528 374

Email: maurice.sloane at humanware.com
<mailto:maurice.sloane at humanware.com>

Website: www.humanware.com
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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 25 22:18:48 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:18:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
References: <33920e820902251326x7203124ah8317b82d76e56b70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c99797$08944380$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Hi Welcome to the list.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Atchison" <atchisonrichard72 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS


> My name is Richard. Not sure how all of this works. I was wanting to
> say "hi"  to everybody.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From terri.rupp at gmail.com  Wed Feb 25 22:46:13 2009
From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:46:13 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Oregon Students
Message-ID: <a0d584a0902251446p33de610as2047e70a60b83d79@mail.gmail.com>

JosephI'm very pleased to hear that you, Haben and the other few students
were successful at organizing a student division.  You are right.  It does
get very exhausting at the end of it all, but we all love it don't we?
 Congratulations and keep up the great work!

Terri Rupp

From info at michaelhingson.com  Thu Feb 26 02:24:19 2009
From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:24:19 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing the New KnfbReader Mobile Sales Program
Message-ID: <auto-000090457911@mailfront2.g2host.com>


Announcing the New KnfbReader Mobile Sales Program

National Federation of the Blind Sales Initiative


Fellow Federationists and Friends:

On last month's presidential release Dr. Maurer 
announced the launch of a new program through 
which the NFB would be selling the KnfbReader 
Mobile.  I am excited to announce that the 
National Federation of the Blind KnfbReader 
Mobile sales program is now under way.  Beginning 
at the Washington Seminar the KnfbReader Mobile 
became available under this program.  All 
attendees of Washington Seminar had an 
opportunity to see the reader and to purchase 
it.  We got off to a good start at the seminar 
with several sales and a lot of demo time.

As you may have heard, the price for the Reader 
has dropped significantly over the past few 
months.  The price for the Reader software is now $995.

By the time you receive this announcement all 
readers will be shipping with a new and improved 
version of the KnfbReader Mobile software.  This 
latest edition of the program offers many fabulous improvements including:
·        significantly better character recognition,
·        a new and improved user interface,
·        language translation with the purchase 
of an extra language package, and
·        Support for the new Nokia 6220 Classic cell phone.

Add the cost of the cell phone for $350, thus 
making the cost for the complete KnfbReader 
Mobile $1,345 and you have the most affordable 
and portable reading system available on the market.

Under our sales program we will also be offering 
both Talks and MobileSpeak screen readers for the 
KnfbReader Mobile.  With either Talks or 
MobileSpeak, all of the standard functions of the 
cell phones used in the KnfbReader Mobile system 
become fully accessible to blind people.  We are 
excited to be able to offer not only the Reader 
but several ways to make the rest of the cell 
phone’s functions talk.  The price for either 
Talks or MobileSpeak is $295.  This means that 
for $1,640 you can have the latest and most 
advanced reading system available on the market 
today, as well as a fully accessible cell phone.

After you have purchased your new reader, the 
support team and I will be ready to give you all 
the technical assistance and encouragement you 
need.  We're always ready to answer any questions.

You can purchase your KnfbReader Mobile with 
MasterCard or VISA or by check.  Please contact 
me with any questions you may have at (888) 965-9191.

There’s even more great news to share:  The 
purchase of your KnfbReader Mobile can be 
financed under the NFB Technology Loan 
Program.  If you wish to finance your purchase 
under this program, the interest rate for your 
loan will be 3 percent (the best rate in 
town!).  To learn more about the loan program and 
to download an application, or to learn anything 
else about the NFB sales effort and the 
KnfbReader Mobile visit the special KnfbReader 
Mobile Web page at 
<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com.

Finally, I'm pleased to tell you that I will be 
looking for some people to help sell the 
KnfbReader Mobile.  If you're looking for extra 
income or something that can turn into a 
full-time job and if you believe that you can 
sell this product, please call me.  I can be 
reached at (888) 965-9191 any time from 8:00 AM 
to 5:30 PM Pacific Time.  If you need to leave a 
voicemail, rest assured that I will call you back 
as soon as possible.  You also may reach me at 
<mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>mailto:info at michaelhingson.com.

I look forward to hearing from you and to helping 
you with your purchase of a KnfbReader Mobile as 
well as to supporting you as you learn to use 
your new device.  I believe that this is a very 
exciting program that promises to be fruitful for 
the NFB.  We all helped make the KnfbReader 
Mobile a reality.  Because of the unwavering 
commitment of the National Federation of the 
Blind and Ray Kurzweil, the dream of a 
pocket-sized reading machine has now come to 
life.  We have the opportunity to make this 
revolutionary technology available to blind 
people everywhere.  I look forward to your help 
in making the KnfbReader Mobile the most 
widely-used product among blind people in the United States.

Best wishes for your success,

Mike Hingson


The Michael Hingson Group
      “Speaking with Vision”
                  Michael Hingson, President
                          (415) 827-4084
                    <mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>info at michaelhingson.com
                    www.michaelhingson.com


for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>
http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg

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From dnj.galloway at starpower.net  Thu Feb 26 02:36:52 2009
From: dnj.galloway at starpower.net (Don and June)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:36:52 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Brand New Braille note PK With Blue Logger GPS for Sale
Message-ID: <auto-000087361214@mailfront1.g2host.com>

For Sale: A Brand New Braille note PK with Blue Logger GPS

This unit has never been used. Asking $2,500 for both


Don Galloway
Please contact @ <mailto:Dgalloway at starpower.net>Dgalloway at starpower.net
Phone: (202) 882-3816
Mobile: (202) 441-6140




From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 03:27:11 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:27:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
In-Reply-To: <33920e820902251326x7203124ah8317b82d76e56b70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <33920e820902251326x7203124ah8317b82d76e56b70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49a60be9.02c3f10a.47b8.ffffe18c@mx.google.com>

Hi, 

And so you did! Haha! Welcome to the list, Richard. 

Take care, 

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 
Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March
for Independence:
http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
m&fr_id=1050




From iamantonio at cox.net  Thu Feb 26 04:01:31 2009
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:01:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
References: <33920e820902251326x7203124ah8317b82d76e56b70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <692EE840CEDD4E03AFD293CC5FA5623B@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello Richard,

Welcome to the NABS list. This is is, and this is how it works. You have a 
question that is student/blindness-related, and you write to the list.

You will surely find much on here that is of interest, informative, and 
thought-provoquing.

Welcome to the most informative and certainly Vibrant Generation of blind 
students around.

Antonio Guimaraes

If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup 
trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of 
highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary 
works in Braille.

Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Atchison" <atchisonrichard72 at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS


> My name is Richard. Not sure how all of this works. I was wanting to
> say "hi"  to everybody.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net 



From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 04:05:56 2009
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:05:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
In-Reply-To: <692EE840CEDD4E03AFD293CC5FA5623B@userf9b4fa60eb>
References: <33920e820902251326x7203124ah8317b82d76e56b70@mail.gmail.com>
	<692EE840CEDD4E03AFD293CC5FA5623B@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <63af025c0902252005t38108ba0udea5b0fbfcd74eeb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Richard. Welcome to NABS! Feel free to jump in on anything that sounds
interesting to you. There's always something up for discussion on this list.

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Antonio M. Guimaraes
<iamantonio at cox.net>wrote:

> Hello Richard,
>
> Welcome to the NABS list. This is is, and this is how it works. You have a
> question that is student/blindness-related, and you write to the list.
>
> You will surely find much on here that is of interest, informative, and
> thought-provoquing.
>
> Welcome to the most informative and certainly Vibrant Generation of blind
> students around.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
>
> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup
> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of
> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary
> works in Braille.
>
> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Atchison" <
> atchisonrichard72 at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
>
>
>  My name is Richard. Not sure how all of this works. I was wanting to
>> say "hi"  to everybody.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Feb 26 05:05:11 2009
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:05:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS
In-Reply-To: <49a60be9.02c3f10a.47b8.ffffe18c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <179475946.2763351235624711701.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

hello liz and all,

well, i decided to welcome all of the new people who have just joined the nabs list in a few days or so. so, i have decided to welcome you all at once. so, welcome to the land of nabs! my name is amy sabo and i'm a major chatterbox here on this list. i'm from colorado but, i'm originally from michigan. i'm currently attending the university of colorado-denver where i have been working on my degree in communications with a minor in political science. it has taken me longer than i thought so due to many medical issues in my life.

but, hopefully due to many academic issues i'm planning on transfering to metro state college in colorado to finish my degree finally! please don't be afraid to ask questions, give advice, vent, observe, but most of all just have fun!

just know that you aren't alone here and that together we can all change what it means to be a blind student in the world and the usa. so, that's all for now take care and i will talk to you all soon!


hugs,
from amy

----- Original Message -----

From: Liz Bottner 

To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' 

Sent: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:27:11 +0000 (UTC)

Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recently joined NABS



Hi, 



And so you did! Haha! Welcome to the list, Richard. 



Take care, 



Liz 



email: 

liz.bottner at gmail.com 

Visit my livejournal: 

http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 

Follow me on Twitter: 

http://twitter.com/lizbot 

Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March

for Independence:

http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea

m&fr_id=1050







_______________________________________________

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nabs-l at nfbnet.org

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org

To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:

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From blindhistory at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 06:07:37 2009
From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:07:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
Message-ID: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>

How do you guys destress after a hard day at school?

-- 
Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle

From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 14:26:00 2009
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:26:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008301c9981e$266e1840$2d01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1>

Trying listening to music or talking to a friend.
Rania,
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lora and Myrtle" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:07 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of


> How do you guys destress after a hard day at school?
>
> -- 
> Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com 



From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 14:57:53 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:57:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
In-Reply-To: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49a6add8.c5c2f10a.07f7.3f97@mx.google.com>

Hi, 

I'll read, listen to music, talk to friends, just lay down and relax, things
like that. 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 
Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March
for Independence:
http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
m&fr_id=1050




From jj at bestmidi.com  Thu Feb 26 15:02:21 2009
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:02:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GMAT?
Message-ID: <0029BDC6B2DD45D386CECD8FBF2C052D@jsquared>

I'm looking at possible masters programs and notice the GMAT is required for some I'm interested in. I've seen discussions on other tests, but am unsure as to the current accessibility of this test. Can anyone provide their experiences or what they may know about this test?
Thanks.


J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com
A premier licensed Code Factory distributor

From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Thu Feb 26 18:07:45 2009
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:07:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
In-Reply-To: <49a6add8.c5c2f10a.07f7.3f97@mx.google.com>
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<49a6add8.c5c2f10a.07f7.3f97@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <20090226130745.o6yvccq000sgoswo@webmail.utoronto.ca>

It depends on the kind of stress. Talking to someone or music helps,  
or sometimes I'll make tea or find some other hot beverage to sit and  
enjoy while I do one of the aforementioned things.

If it's really bad, or I'm angry on top of stressed, I'll blast the  
hardest rock/hip-hop I can find and that usually makes me happy.

I hope you feel better.

Sarah


Quoting Liz Bottner <liz.bottner at gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I'll read, listen to music, talk to friends, just lay down and relax, things
> like that.
>
> email:
> liz.bottner at gmail.com
> Visit my livejournal:
> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
> Follow me on Twitter:
> http://twitter.com/lizbot
> Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March
> for Independence:
> http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
> m&fr_id=1050
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>





From terri.rupp at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 20:44:42 2009
From: terri.rupp at gmail.com (Terri Rupp)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 12:44:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Electronic Textbooks (announcement)
In-Reply-To: <F0078745BDA1D442B9BA19143FEA66CD46CADA8832@BALT-X1-EXCH01.BGL.root>
References: <F0078745BDA1D442B9BA19143FEA66CD46CADA8832@BALT-X1-EXCH01.BGL.root>
Message-ID: <a0d584a0902261244y1a79fe3et8a22de606cd67816@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mehgan Sidhu <ms at browngold.com>
Date: Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Subject: Electronic Textbooks (announcement)
To: Terri Rupp <terri.rupp at gmail.com>


 As the economy worsens, more and more universities and publishers are
offering students electronic textbooks as an affordable option.
Unfortunately, most of these e-textbooks are inaccessible to blind students
and faculty.  The NFB is investigating this matter and needs to hear from
you.  If you are a student who attends a college or university that offers
e-textbooks to your sighted classmates, please contact Mehgan Sidhu by
e-mail at ms at browngold.com or phone at 410-962-1030 and leave a message that
includes your name, contact information, best times to reach you, and the
name of the college or university you attend.



Mehgan Sidhu

Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP

120 East Baltimore Street, Suite 1700

Baltimore, Maryland 21202

410-962-1030 x1324

410-385-0869 (fax)

ms at browngold.com

www.browngold.com



Confidentiality Notice



This e-mail may contain confidential information that may also be legally
privileged and that is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) named
above.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the
recipient, please be advised that any dissemination or copying of this
e-mail, or taking of any action in reliance on the information contained
herein, is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this e-mail in error,
please notify me immediately by use of the reply button, and then delete the
e-mail from your system.  Thank you!

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Feb 26 22:47:08 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:47:08 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com><49a6add8.c5c2f10a.07f7.3f97@mx.google.com>
	<20090226130745.o6yvccq000sgoswo@webmail.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <CCA96241C43C4544B646BF95CBDA00F3@D3ZCJ891>

I listen to music. There's certain songs that make me feel better. Mochas 
also work. What is it about chocolate?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OT sort of


It depends on the kind of stress. Talking to someone or music helps,
or sometimes I'll make tea or find some other hot beverage to sit and
enjoy while I do one of the aforementioned things.

If it's really bad, or I'm angry on top of stressed, I'll blast the
hardest rock/hip-hop I can find and that usually makes me happy.

I hope you feel better.

Sarah


Quoting Liz Bottner <liz.bottner at gmail.com>:

> Hi,
>
> I'll read, listen to music, talk to friends, just lay down and relax, 
> things
> like that.
>
> email:
> liz.bottner at gmail.com
> Visit my livejournal:
> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
> Follow me on Twitter:
> http://twitter.com/lizbot
> Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the 
> March
> for Independence:
> http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
> m&fr_id=1050
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>




_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 23:06:34 2009
From: chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com (Chelsea Munoz)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:06:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
In-Reply-To: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c99866$e67e8ff0$b37bafd0$@com>

Sometimes I listen to music, sometimes I call friends to chat. It depends on
my mood really. If I have homework to do, I take a little break from school
for awhile, and get back to it when I feel ready.



From blindhistory at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 00:18:17 2009
From: blindhistory at gmail.com (Lora and Myrtle)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:18:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
In-Reply-To: <000001c99866$e67e8ff0$b37bafd0$@com>
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001c99866$e67e8ff0$b37bafd0$@com>
Message-ID: <ea6d2ed00902261618k27aec9aem5c5bf26c135134f6@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for the suggestions.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Chelsea Munoz
<chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Sometimes I listen to music, sometimes I call friends to chat. It depends
> on
> my mood really. If I have homework to do, I take a little break from school
> for awhile, and get back to it when I feel ready.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle

From serenacucco at verizon.net  Fri Feb 27 00:28:09 2009
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:28:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007001c99872$44e8a200$0501a8c0@Serene>

After a long day of work, I IM friends, play the piano, or listen to music.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lora and Myrtle" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:07 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of


> How do you guys destress after a hard day at school?
>
> -- 
> Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 00:29:10 2009
From: chelseamunoz1028 at gmail.com (Chelsea Munoz)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:29:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
In-Reply-To: <ea6d2ed00902261618k27aec9aem5c5bf26c135134f6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea6d2ed00902252207r7ee3756ds1e17b4daf7562cfb@mail.gmail.com>	<000001c99866$e67e8ff0$b37bafd0$@com>
	<ea6d2ed00902261618k27aec9aem5c5bf26c135134f6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c99872$6e7ed7b0$4b7c8710$@com>

You're welcome. If you need help with anything else, let me know.
Chelsea



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Feb 27 01:40:45 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:40:45 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Louis Braille Coin Launch Invitation
Message-ID: <auto-000090656245@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Launch Invitation

The launch of the 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial 
Silver Dollar will take place on March 26, 2009, 
at the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan 
Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.

If you love Braille, want to learn more about it, 
or want to join us in our effort to bring 
awareness to the Braille literacy crisis, we urge 
you to attend this extraordinary event. It is not 
often that such a unique opportunity arises, and 
we hope that you will join us as we celebrate 
this defining moment in American history.

Festivities begin at 10:00 a.m. and will last 
until approximately 1:00 p.m. There will be 
activities for all ages, and the first 
opportunity to purchase the Louis Braille Coin 
will be available exclusively to those in attendance.

While seating is not limited, it is helpful for 
us to know how many people to expect. Please 
assist us in providing you with the best possible 
experience by filling out the event registration 
form at www.Braille.org. As details of the event 
are announced, your registration will ensure that you are the first to know.

Event address:
National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute
1800 Johnson Street
Baltimore, MD 21230

For more information please call 410-659-9314 x2230

U.S. Mint Information

The 2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar 
commemorates the 200th anniversary of the birth 
of Louis Braille, inventor of the Braille system, 
which is still used by the blind to read and write.

Louis Braille was born in Coupvray, France, near 
Paris, on January 4, 1809. At the age of three, 
he lost the sight in his left eye as the result 
of an accident in his father’s workshop. An 
infection spread to his right eye and he became 
completely blind by the age of four. At the age 
of 10, Braille received a scholarship to attend 
the Royal Institute for Blind Children in Paris, 
where he became the youngest student. At the 
school, most instruction was oral, but Braille 
read books for the blind, which had large letters embossed on the pages.

In 1821, a captain in Napoleon’s army, Charles 
Barbier de la Serre, visited Braille’s school and 
introduced a system he had invented called “night 
writing.” This was a method for communicating on 
the battlefield at night without having to talk 
or light a match, which could alert the enemy. It 
consisted of 12 raised dots which could be 
combined to represent words by sounds rather than 
letters. Over the next few months, Braille 
experimented with different configurations until 
he found a simpler one using just six dots.

By the age of 15, using a blunt awl (the same 
type of tool that had injured his left eye 12 
years earlier) to punch holes in paper to 
represent letters, Braille had developed the code 
that is essentially what we know today as modern 
Braille. It uses no more than six dots in a 
“cell” of two columns of up to three dots each to 
represent letters and contains a system of 
punctuation and “contractions” to speed reading 
and writing. It is read by passing the fingers over the raised dots.

Today, Braille has been adapted to almost every 
known language and is used everywhere from bus 
stops and maps to music notation and text books. 
In his native France, Louis Braille’s achievement 
was recognized in 1952 – the 100th anniversary of 
his death – when his body was moved to Paris and interred in the Pantheon.

Now, for the first time in history, a United 
States coin features readable Braille. It is 
available in both proof and uncirculated 
versions. The obverse (heads) features a portrait 
of Louis Braille designed by United States Mint 
Artistic Infusion Program (AIP) Master Designer 
Joel Iskowitz and sculpted by United States Mint 
Sculptor/Engraver Phebe Hemphill. It is also 
inscribed with LIBERTY, IN GOD WE TRUST, LOUIS BRAILLE, 1809 and 2009.

The reverse (tails), showing a child reading a 
book in Braille, was designed by United States 
Mint AIP Master Designer Susan Gamble and 
sculpted by United States Mint Sculptor/Engraver 
Joseph Menna. The word Braille (abbreviated Brl 
in Braille code) is depicted in the upper field. 
The word INDEPENDENCE is featured on a bookshelf 
behind the child, in addition to the inscriptions 
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ONE DOLLAR and E PLURIBUS UNUM.

Surcharges from sales of the 2009 Louis Braille 
Bicentennial Silver Dollar are authorized to be 
paid to the National Federation of the Blind to 
further its programs to promote Braille literacy.

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From merisa.musemic at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 02:19:05 2009
From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 21:19:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
Message-ID: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>

Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in
the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that
the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also
understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you
are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.
Thanks!
Merisa


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 04:36:23 2009
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 20:36:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090227043623.GF12144@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I don't like it as a music player.  As a book player, it rocks!  I 
have never seen a better product for book-reading.

Joseph

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 09:19:05PM -0500, Merisa Musemic wrote:
>Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in
>the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that
>the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also
>understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you
>are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.
>Thanks!
>Merisa


From amylsabo at comcast.net  Fri Feb 27 06:18:58 2009
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 06:18:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <238430503.3241521235715538969.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

dear marissa and all,

i'm so glad that you are going to get a victor reader stream. i love mine! i use it as my music player mainly and for reading my books i use the bookport from aph. i like to have one machine for my music and one for my books for school and also for pleasure.

as to the stream as a music player it rocks! i wouldn't use anything else for playing my music with a accessible player. so, those are my thoughts on the victor reader stream. take care and i will talk to you soon!


hugs,
from amy

----- Original Message -----

From: Merisa Musemic 

To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org

Sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:19:05 +0000 (UTC)

Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream



Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in

the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that

the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also

understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you

are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.

Thanks!

Merisa



_______________________________________________

nabs-l mailing list

nabs-l at nfbnet.org

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org

To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net



From ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 27 07:28:34 2009
From: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com (Cindy Garcia)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 23:28:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Reader streem.
Message-ID: <588651.42992.qm@web54603.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi, I do not have a streem yet, but i am going to get one soon. My roomate has one and I play with it all the time. I just love the recording option because of lexures. the info you got is right but I think it is nice too because there are not that many buttons to learn how to use. I love the streem and I think it is a good thing to invest in more so if you are a student. I hope this helps Melissa. If you have any questions, please fel free to contact me.


Cindy Garcia
Music Major
PCell phone, (512) 740-8173
email Address: ccgarcia2005 at yahoo.com
Msn: zacharycindy at hotmail.com
Skype: cinraymel06


      


From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Fri Feb 27 08:25:51 2009
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:25:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
Message-ID: <20090227082551.7274.2960@p2025330.pubip.peer1.net>

I meditate. I've been known to open up a window to get some fresh air 
and light some insense. It's a nice way to unwind. If I'm feeling 
particularly plugged up, I also talk to friends and work it out.
Original message:
> Trying listening to music or talking to a friend.
> Rania,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lora and Myrtle" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:07 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of


>> How do you guys destress after a hard day at school?

>> --
>> Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From cowboy0210 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 14:28:44 2009
From: cowboy0210 at gmail.com (Kevin Ledford)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:28:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5487baf30902270628t4afb379fl77c009286d89b70c@mail.gmail.com>

Good morning.

I have a Victor Reader Stream. I use it on a daily basis. I use it for my
textbooks and recording lectures. I know you can play music on it. You may
also play RFB& D books on it but you must purchase the authorization key
from RFB&D. When I purchased mine, it was $ 20.00 plus around $ 6.00 or 7.00
for shipping.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Merisa Musemic <merisa.musemic at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in
> the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that
> the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also
> understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you
> are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.
> Thanks!
> Merisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com
>



-- 
GIT-R-DONE !!!

From merisa.musemic at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 15:39:50 2009
From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:39:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Thank you!
Message-ID: <df5bac6d0902270739h3260020dpd5d69bf9772c5d81@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the info on VR stream. Amy you mentioned the bookport. I
looked at the AFB website, and it says that it was discontinued.
Merisa


From mworkman at ualberta.ca  Fri Feb 27 15:54:18 2009
From: mworkman at ualberta.ca (mworkman at ualberta.ca)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:54:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of
In-Reply-To: <20090227082551.7274.2960@p2025330.pubip.peer1.net>
Message-ID: <LNEJJKLNICEECFDGEDGLMEABDKAA.mworkman@ualberta.ca>

Guess I'm the only one who knocks back a glass of Johnny Walker Black.  Ah
well, I'm sure meditating and listening to music are healthier ways of
relieving stress.

Marc

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Jedi
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 1:26 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] OT sort of


I meditate. I've been known to open up a window to get some fresh air
and light some insense. It's a nice way to unwind. If I'm feeling
particularly plugged up, I also talk to friends and work it out.
Original message:
> Trying listening to music or talking to a friend.
> Rania,
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lora and Myrtle" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:07 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] OT sort of


>> How do you guys destress after a hard day at school?

>> --
>> Lora and Leader Dog Myrtle
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai
l.com


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo
bile.net

--
REspectfully,
Jedi

Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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ca



From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Fri Feb 27 16:58:29 2009
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:58:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
In-Reply-To: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49a81ba6.1f538c0a.5171.5a36@mx.google.com>

Hi, 

I purchased a Stream shortly after they came out, and I love mine. I use it
for both music and books. 

Take care, and if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. 

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 
Consider helping blind and visually impaired Delaware students in the March
for Independence:
http://www.marchforindependence.org/site/TR/walk/General?team_id=2830&pg=tea
m&fr_id=1050 




From kimthurman at insightbb.com  Fri Feb 27 17:39:21 2009
From: kimthurman at insightbb.com (Kim Thurman)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:39:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
In-Reply-To: <5487baf30902270628t4afb379fl77c009286d89b70c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
	<5487baf30902270628t4afb379fl77c009286d89b70c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b701c99902$5312b8d0$f9382a70$@com>

The Victor Reader Stream absolutely rocks!  I have all my text books on it,
record lectures with it, download NLS books on it, have played music on it,
recorded little memo notes on it.  It's a very handy gadget!

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kevin Ledford
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:29 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream

Good morning.

I have a Victor Reader Stream. I use it on a daily basis. I use it for my
textbooks and recording lectures. I know you can play music on it. You may
also play RFB& D books on it but you must purchase the authorization key
from RFB&D. When I purchased mine, it was $ 20.00 plus around $ 6.00 or 7.00
for shipping.

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Merisa Musemic
<merisa.musemic at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in
> the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that
> the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also
> understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you
> are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.
> Thanks!
> Merisa
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.c
om
>



-- 
GIT-R-DONE !!!
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kimthurman%40insight
bb.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 27 18:09:51 2009
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley  Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:09:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] database accessibility
Message-ID: <2CF23FC5CB224D838BA1D493B030C14C@Ashley>

Hi all,

I know some databases are accessible to jaws and some are not.  Anyone know the accessibility of Raisor's Edge?  Its a database program used by nonprofits and the organization I may volunteer for uses it.

Thanks.
Ashley

From hope.paulos at maine.edu  Fri Feb 27 18:16:17 2009
From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:16:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
References: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
	<5487baf30902270628t4afb379fl77c009286d89b70c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50B95271A89F460A8099C5958D2680FE@Hope>

HI there. I also use a vr stream. I use it to watch (or listen to rather) 
movies from the movie vault, record lectures, listen to books, and I have 
yet to try the music. I love my vr stream, and believe it is well worth the 
price.!!!

Hope and Beignet
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Ledford" <cowboy0210 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream


> Good morning.
>
> I have a Victor Reader Stream. I use it on a daily basis. I use it for my
> textbooks and recording lectures. I know you can play music on it. You may
> also play RFB& D books on it but you must purchase the authorization key
> from RFB&D. When I purchased mine, it was $ 20.00 plus around $ 6.00 or 
> 7.00
> for shipping.
>
> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Merisa Musemic 
> <merisa.musemic at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in
>> the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that
>> the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also
>> understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you
>> are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.
>> Thanks!
>> Merisa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cowboy0210%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> GIT-R-DONE !!!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu 



From KBowman at nfb.org  Fri Feb 27 20:52:32 2009
From: KBowman at nfb.org (Bowman,
	Kristi)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:52:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Assisting the March for Independence in Detroit
Message-ID: <auto-000090801705@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Greetings:

Do you have a friend, business associate, old 
high school buddy, or family member in the 
Detroit metro area? If you do, please let me know 
about them. As we approach our national 
convention in Detroit, we are again working to 
make our annual March for Independence – A Walk 
for Opportunity an extraordinary success. One of 
the ways we have found to be very effective is to 
seek the support of local political, community, 
civic, and corporate leaders. Our Michigan 
affiliate is already working hard to do this. 
Noor Allain, Kristi Bowman, and myself are also 
spending time in Detroit. We are still developing 
the route, we are still seeking community leaders 
to serve as co-chairs for the event, we are 
looking for imaginative ideas to make the event 
empowering and distinctive, and we are seeking 
financial sponsors. So search your memories. If 
you have an uncle who is a marketing director, a 
cousin who works for traffic engineering, a 
friend of a friend who is the president of the 
downtown Lions Club, and so on and so forth. 
Please let me know. No idea is too silly. Some 
won't work out, but I'd rather have them. Send me 
an e-mail please or call my office at (866) 
543-6808. We will be in Detroit next week, 
working with our Michigan affiliate leadership, 
the Chamber of Commerce, the Convention and 
Visitors Bureau, and others. Thank you and stay imagining.

At Your Service,

Kevan Worley
CEO,Worley Enterprises
kevanworley at blindmerchants.org

(866) 543-6808



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Feb 27 21:17:22 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:17:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] database accessibility
In-Reply-To: <2CF23FC5CB224D838BA1D493B030C14C@Ashley>
References: <2CF23FC5CB224D838BA1D493B030C14C@Ashley>
Message-ID: <auto-000090806966@mailfront2.g2host.com>

I haven't used the latest versions of Raisers' Edge, but until 
recently it was not very accessible.  I could get around in it a 
little bit, but couldn't work productively.  They keep making 
promises about accessibility, but never seem to do anything.

Dave

At 12:09 PM 2/27/2009, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I know some databases are accessible to jaws and some are 
>not.  Anyone know the accessibility of Raisor's Edge?  Its a 
>database program used by nonprofits and the organization I may 
>volunteer for uses it.
>
>Thanks.
>Ashley
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.4/1976 - Release Date: 
>02/27/09 13:27:00



From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com  Sat Feb 28 04:17:33 2009
From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:17:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Hear Ye! NOPBC 2009 Annual Conference Schedule and
 Pre-Registration
Message-ID: <auto-000087650303@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Greetings Everyone!

I am very excited to send out to you all the schedule and 
registration forms for our 2009 NOPBC Annual Conference to be held as 
part of our Annual NFB National Convention this year in Detroit, 
Michigan. Details on the hotel and where to make reservations can be 
found on the home page of our NFB website at 
<http://www.nfb.org/>www.nfb.org. We will be staying on the water's 
edge, with a beautiful walkway with a view to Canada across the 
water. Details about scholarships for first timers have been posted 
and reminders will continue to come. These details can also be found 
on the NFB site. Make your reservations for the hotel very soon. 
Convention attractions will come out in the April issue of the 
Braille Monitor.

Also get registered for the Independence March if you have not done 
so already! Everything that is "free" that we give to all who ask in 
literature and things like providing this list serv, and programs 
like Youth Slam! of course are not really free and pulled out of thin 
air. Even if you can not attend in Detroit, you can be a virtual 
marcher and help us raise funds to promote literacy, fight 
discrimination, develop and offer low or no cost programs, etc. Every 
penny and dollar counts and everyone can ask. How valuable are the 
NFB and NOPBC to you? Register today or this weekend at 
<http://www.marchforindependence.org/>www.marchforindependence.org.

I am getting really excited for July and being with old friends and 
new, all the energy, all the resources and support, all the LOVE, of 
us together in one place! It gives me goose bumps thinking about it. 
Lives are forever changed every year; mine changed in 1999 in Atlanta 
when I attended my first one with my eight year old son. If we are 
old friends I can't wait to see you again, if we have not yet met, 
maybe only through this list, I so look forward to meeting you in person!

Save $5 per person by pre-registering. Spread out the cost and get 
this one out of the way! Do it very soon. Imagine planning a get 
together for several hundred people and they don't let you know they 
are coming until the last minute! Especially for the children's 
programs, we want to have the right count of materials, so everyone 
get registered as early as possible! Also Pre-registration ENDS June 
1st, it will be here before you know it. Don't delay and get busy 
with the other things of spring and forget!

Please feel free to post any questions about convention or the NOPBC 
conference to this list or to me personally.

Motor City here we come!

Carrie Gilmer, President
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
Home Phone: 763-784-8590
<mailto:carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
www.nfb.org/nopbc

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 28 15:35:55 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 07:35:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream
References: <df5bac6d0902261819k5c77dafayed70e7cf24d67934@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <710FE68918394BD4B9751AD91B68427F@D3ZCJ891>

I use it mainly for recording. Although I have to use a sound editor (sound 
recorder works) to increase the volume and there is some background noise, 
it is not crackly or broken up.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Merisa Musemic" <merisa.musemic at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:19 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Victor Reader Stream


Hi! I'm considering investing into a Victor Reader stream sometime in
the future. I looked at humanware website. My understanding is that
the unit can read book share files as well as RFBD files. I also
understand that I can put music on it. I'd like to hear if any of you
are using Victor Reader Strream and your experience with it.
Thanks!
Merisa

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb 28 17:01:36 2009
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:01:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Nokia N82 and Talks tutorials
Message-ID: <127C694EAE0040A8A13061882F4E0536@davee984e49f02>

Hello all,

Handy Tech North America is pleased to now offer free of charge an N82 and
Talks screen reader audio tutorial.  The tutorial files are in MP3 format
and recorded by gadget girl Kelly Dunn from Handy Tech North America.  

These brief but informative lessons go a long way toward helping people who
are blind or have low vision better understand the physical layout of the
n82, the Talks screen reader and features of the phone itself.

These lessons are available free of charge to whoever could benefit from
them regardless of from where they purchased their phone or software and may
be downloaded from:

http://www.handytech.us/n82tutorial

We intend to add more lessons over time, so check back frequently.

If you have any questions about the N82, Talks or MobileSpeak Screen Readers
or any of the other many adaptive technology solutions we offer, don't
hesitate to contact us at:

651-636-5184

Or e-mail:  info at handytech.us



Best Regards:
David Wright

Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com
Mobile: 512-203-2474

http://www.knfbreader.com

From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Feb 28 20:17:37 2009
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:17:37 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: PDF to TXT 3.2 released
Message-ID: <auto-000087678391@mailfront1.g2host.com>


>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:20:23 -0500 (EST)
>From: Jamal Mazrui <empower at smart.net>



>http://EmpowermentZone.com/p2tsetup.exe
>
>PDF to TXT
>Version 3.2
>February 28, 2009
>
>This version adds the ability to convert from PDF to HTML format via a new
>checkbox called Extra HTML (which may be invoked with Alt+X).  If checked,
>a .htm target file is produced in addition to the .txt one.  A different
>conversion technique is used, originally posted at
>http://EmpowermentZone.com/pdf2htm.zip
>
>This option may be worth trying if the .txt result is unsatisfactory.  It
>may also be useful for webmasters who want to post AN HTML alternative to
>a PDF.  The conversion translates visual aspects of the PDF such as fonts,
>but not structural elements such as headings, unfortunately.
>
>Jamal



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 28 21:50:40 2009
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:50:40 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS Experiences
Message-ID: <39A3AECE44C34D20B5227EC6430ED79B@D3ZCJ891>

If this is not off topic, I would like to compare notes about certain things that I have been noticing going wrong with JAWS.

Nicole