[nabs-l] Research Paper Help

Thu Jun 18 23:07:11 UTC 2009

Joe,

You said

"the school need not be expected to carry out this courtesy."

Then you said,

"a school should have no excuses not to show the blind student to their
classrooms."

You have to admit there is some ambiguity here.  My guess is that what you
are saying is that the school does have a responsibility to provide the
service, but that in cases where the school is not providing this service,
it is then up to the student to find his or her own way.

If that is indeed what you meant, then we agree, but that is not at all what
you implied in the original post.  You made it sound like the school, quote,
need not be expected to carry out this courtesy, end quote, but a student
could request this of the school, and the school would be hard pressed to
say no.  You offer the example of going to the newspapers, which suggest
that a student could shame them into doing it.  For me, however, there is a
big difference between saying the school is failing to meet its
responsibilities, and saying that the school would have a difficult time
facing a public shaming.  The latter assertion doesn't imply that the school
has any responsibility whatsoever, and it really sounded like you were
adopting the latter position.  Now, I really can't tell if you favour the
former, like me, or the latter.

No sarcasm at all.  Those are only minimal standards of accessibility that
came off the top of my head.  If I thought about it, I could come up with
many others.  It may be true that absolutely no school meets even these
minimal criteria (I really have no idea), but that is beside the point.  The
point is that, unless the school does meet the criteria, the school has a
responsibility to assist students with orientation to classrooms and other
destinations.  If a school were fully accessible, then I could accept the
argument that it is entirely the student's responsibility, but, as you said,
no schools are, so the school thus has a responsibility.

Marc

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:56 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Research Paper Help

Marc,

Your tone suggests it would be wrong of me to say it is the responsibility
of the blind person to find their own classrooms?

This is your criteria for deeming a campus accessible:

1. Fully accessible maps

2. Braille on every classroom door

3. Accessible elevators

4. Constructed in a way that requires little orientation for the blind
individual

I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic, correct me if I'm wrong.  But
no institution could come clean on all four points, and even if it planned
to do so in the future, there is still the matter of the here and now where
the blind student still needs to find their way.  My e-mail very clearly
suggests a school should have no excuses not to show the blind student to
their classrooms.  Imagine how that would pan out in the local newspapers?
But, yes, ultimately, if the university is taking its sweet time about
getting its act together, it is the responsibility of the student to find
their way around campus just as it is their responsibility, and not the
school's, to have the assignments completed.  The student should file a
complaint or do whatever they need to do to rectify the situation, but I'm
referring to what needs to be done today because when classes start the
student needs to get there with or without the university's assistance.
College is, after all, one step away from real life, and accessible maps,
labeled doors and such are certainly not a part of finding the office for an
interview.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of mworkman at ualberta.ca
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:39 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Research Paper Help

I'm curious Joe, if not through public funding, and if not
through assistance from the university, then whose
responsibility is it.  My gut tells me you will say that it is
of course the blind person's responsibility, but my gut has
been wrong in the past.

Just in case my gut is right this time, I would say that unless
the university provides fully accessible maps, braille on every
classroom door, accessible elevators, and is constructed in a
manner that requires little in the way of orientation for a
blind person to get around, then the university does have a
responsibility to offer this sort of assistance.  In Canada
anyways, I think it would be pretty easy to argue that this is
a reasonable accommodation that doesn't impose an undo
hardship, and I suspect the same would be true in american law.

But I am genuinely curious whose responsibility you believe  it is.

Marc

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:35 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Research Paper Help

Someone from the disability office should be able to undertake
this task.
If such an office does not exist, as may be true in a private
institution, there is still some type of compliance officer on
hand who should find a student worker to show the blind person
to his or her classes.  A blind student need not have
government assistance to be shown this courtesy.  In turn, the
school need not be expected to carry out this courtesy, but I
think they will be hard-pressed not to do such a small favor.
Keep us posted, and write to me off list if you need someone to
help you move forward with something more solid with the school.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on
the crowd."--Max Lucado

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of V Nork
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:48 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Research Paper Help

Hi all, Hope any of you can help me with some information for a
research topic on mobility.  It involves a hypothetical
question.  What would happen to a visually impaired student on
your campus if he or she needed help with orientation and
mobility but had no funding from government or social agencies?
 Let us say in this example the student already had basic white
cane skills, but just needed to have someone walk with them
until they had a route planned?  Would the college or
university offer direct help?  On my campus, such help is seen
as the individual responsibility of the blind student.   It is
simply sink or swim if one does not have help or money to pay
for it.It was suggested to me that someone who needed help
should post a flyer on college bulletin boards.  It just seems
to me that is reasonable to think that some member of the
college or university could be designated to offer some
assistance as a kind of mobility aideto do an initial run
through so a student could get to classes each semester.  I
have tried to lobby for this in a low key way, but so far my
suggestions have fallen on unreceptive ears.   My request for
tactile maps has also been seemingly ignored.  Is this similar
or not to the situation on your campus?  Thanks for any
thoughts, Ginnie _______________________________________________
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