[nabs-l] Prejudice, ignorance, and sighted domination

[Len Burns]

Arielle

I do not like the below either, but unfortunately it does have some
basis in fact.  While I have little doubt of your competence, blind
people in this culture are not expected to develop the same competences
as their sighted peers.  For this reason, the additional concern about a
blind persons ability to perfunction an activity is not always
unwarranted.  We are not expected to be competent, and simultaneously 
blamed because we are not.

-Len

Arielle Silverman wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Of course we want to know that people have certain skills before we 
> hire them to do things for us or with us. What I take issue with is 
> why we take for granted that a sighted person can do something, while
>  still requiring evidence before believing that a blind person can do
>  it. If we require proof or evidence from anyone (blind or sighted) 
> that they can do something, that's fine. But assuming that a sighted 
> companion will be good at hiking, for example, but requiring evidence
>  from a blind person just because they're blind is discrimination, 
> whether or not it's justified. And it's rooted in the assumption that
>  a blind person's abilities are less or at least different from the 
> abilities of a sighted individual.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 6/18/09, clinton waterbury <clinton.waterbury at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think this is a valid point.  I mean...  I would want to know if
>> a doctor had the right skills to treat a broken leg or something
>> like that, or even if someone who was fixing my computer wasn't
>> going to just screw it up even worse than it was before. It's like
>> when I was at the center for the blind here in salt lake city.  I
>> tok a woodshop class and managed to make a lamp, and avery time
>> someone asks if I got hurt in the process, whitch I did but it was
>> vary minor compared to other stuff I've heard about, I just tell 
>> them what happened and laugh about it seeing as how it was, by all 
>> accounts, a blunder on my part. The thing is though, crying
>> discrimination over just little things is there everywhere. On the
>> other hand though, if someone is telling me that my imput is not
>> valued simpley cause I can't see an image on a screen or anything 
>> like that, and said individual does research for several large 
>> companies...  Well then I'm gonna call bs on them. On Jun 17, 2009,
>> at 4:41 PM, Jim Reed wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>> 
>>> I wanted to start a slightly different topic as to how ignorance 
>>> leads the sighted domination.
>>> 
>>> First of all, sighted domination occurs because sighted people
>>> are ignorant of what blind people can do, or how they do it.
>>> Therefore, education is one way to avoid sighted domination. The
>>> other way is to actually do whatever it is the sighted person
>>> thinks you cant do. Part of the problem is that some blind people
>>> are so quick to scream "sighted domination" that ignorant sighted
>>> people are afraid to ask questions; this does nothing to reduce
>>> ignorance or to improve the public preception of blindness and
>>> blind people.
>>> 
>>> Second, like it or not, blindness does play a role in defining 
>>> relationships; it defines how people interact, how they share 
>>> information, and what activities they participate in. How is a 
>>> sighted person who has never interacted with a blind person
>>> supposed to know what is appropreate to do or say around blind
>>> people unless they are free and comfortable enough to ask
>>> questions and make mistakes?
>>> 
>>> Much sighted domination occurs because the sighted person does
>>> not have the confidence (or the necessary information to be
>>> confident) in the skills and abilities of a blind person. I am
>>> sorry, but I am not just going to take your word for it that you
>>> can be independent until you prove it to me. I am not going to
>>> put a blind person through an obstacle course just to decide if I
>>> want to be their friend, but it seems like it would be awfully
>>> hard to treat a blind person as "one of the guys" until they
>>> first prove that they are indeed capable of being just "one of
>>> the guys". Similarly, I am not going to go hiking in the
>>> wilderness with a blind partner until/ unless I knowhow their
>>> vision limits their function, and how they have overcome this
>>> limitation. This is not a sighted domination issue, this is a
>>> practical issue with potential life and death consiquences.
>>> Before I break my leg five miles in the backcountry, I need I
>>> know if and how my blind partner can handle the situation. If my
>>> life is potentially in their hands, I have a need and a right to
>>> know that they can do what needs to be done, and I am sorry, but
>>> in this situation I am not just going to take your word for it.
>>> 
>>> I guess the bottom line is, in my mind, that equality,
>>> confidence, and acceptance, much like respect, are earned, not
>>> given. This is not an attitude that I only take towards blind
>>> people, sighted people must prove themselves as well.  If you
>>> don't want to be dominated, then you need to prove to me that you
>>> can handle yourself; until then, try as I might, I am always
>>> going to be somewhat doubtful of your abilites, and try as I
>>> might, my doubts will be reflected in my actions.
>>> 
>>> One last note on equality. It is common knowledge how sighted
>>> people accomplish tasks, and sighted people are routinely
>>> required to prove that we do indeed have the skills we claim to
>>> have. However, it seems that the sighted are just supposed to
>>> accept the blind person's word that they can do the task.  It
>>> seems to be one big secret as to how blind people do task, there
>>> are laws preventing an employer from asking how the blind person
>>> would do the job, some blind people get pissed when you ask them
>>> if, or how they can do something, and, god forbid you ask them to
>>> prove it.  As a sighted person, everyone knows (with a fair
>>> amount of certianty) what your basic skills and abilities are,
>>> and they know (with a fair amount of certianty) how you
>>> accomplish your task. So, if blind people want to be treated as
>>> equals, why shouldnt sighted people have the right to know if,
>>> and how you can do something? And, why is it that blind people
>>> feel they have the right to get pissed off if I ask them if or
>>> how thay can do something, whereas I can ask any of my sighted
>>> friends the exact same questions without them thinking I am
>>> dominating or custodializing them? If you trueky want to be
>>> equals, then you all need to put up with, and handle, the same
>>> crap as everyone else, and in the same manner as everyone else.
>>> Personaly,  if someone doubts my skills and abilities, I don't
>>> cry domination or discrimination, instead I either attempt to
>>> prove them wrong, I ignore them, or I tell them to piss off. If I
>>> am truely an equal in society, I don't defend myself by crying
>>> discrimination, and I don't justify my actions based on the fact
>>> that I am "different".
>>> 
>>> I don't know, I guess this is the sighted side of me talking, but
>>>  these are some of the things I have been thinking about as of
>>> late.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "From compromise and things half done, Keep me with stern and
>>> stubborn pride, And when at last the fight is won, ... Keep me
>>> still unsatisfied." --Louis Untermeyer
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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