[nabs-l] Custodializm and sighted=blind interactions

[Jedi]

Listers:

I consider myself to have excellent cane travel skills, and I feel that 
my skills are self evident when I walk alone or when others walk with 
me regardless of whether they are blind or sighted. Ordinarily, I 
choose to converse with my friends and simply walk beside them because 
that's what's convenient for me. If I feel the desire or necessity to 
take an arm, I'll ask for it, and my friends (blind or sighted) don't 
mind. Usually, I take an arm when it's rediculously crowded or 
something like that.

Before I received cane travel lessons at the LCB, I didn't always feel 
so confident and competent, especially in places where my vision wasn't 
as effective as I would have liked. I might have been more willing to 
take an arm under those circumstances provided that I couldn't see some 
part of them and follow those cues instead. When I was with my blind 
friends, especially my NFB blind friends, I felt comfortable stretching 
out and experiencing the fullness of my blindness skills. I knew I 
could trust them not to laugh at me if I made a mistake. I knew that I 
could trust them to be patient enough to offer on-the-spot lessons if 
necessary, and I knew they'd be patient enough to give me cues to 
follow so I could follow them and really get the fullest experience out 
of independent movement. As for them, they may have been frustrated, 
impatient, and the like. But the thing is that they didn't show it. 
Instead, they seemed to realize how important it was for me to strike 
out on my own, and it was because of their patience that I got a taste 
of what I could expect should I decide to go through an appropriate 
course in cane travel. Also, I could learn through doing and observing 
how they interacted with the environment. As a side note, it always 
struck me that the leaders of my non-NFB blind groups tended to have 
some vision. In the NFB blind groups, it didn't matter. Often, the best 
and most confident leaders in our group had no vision at all or had no 
real travel vision to speak of. It was through their example that I 
understood in a real way that vision really doesn't matter. As a 
result, I still feel safe traveling with other NFB-ers. i can make a 
mistake, I can learn and grow even though I'm pretty confident and 
competent already, and I can trust in their understanding and 
encouragement should I need it.

On the same level, I hear where Jim is coming from. I have a blind 
friend who isn't really interested in getting out there and enjoying 
independent movement. If she was interested, she'd do it more than she 
currently does with our without me. As it stands, she really doesn't 
and so she isn't. when we travel together, I often take the lead 
because I can orient better. Sometimes, I let her take the lead so she 
can practice orienting, making decisions, and acting on them through 
movement in some direction or another. Sometimes, she makes bad 
decisions about when to cross a street, and she often wanders out in 
the middle of nowhere because she's trying to see what she really can't 
and doesn't have the blindness skills to compensate. Sure, I get 
frustrated because it takes her twenty minutes to walk to some place 
that I can reach in five. But, I try not to let it show for the same 
reasons my nFB mentors didn't let it show. I understand that it's not 
all about me, my convenience, getting some place, or any of that. 
Sometimes, it's about letting go and letting the less experienced 
actually get some experience so they can hopefully become more 
confident and competent.

Too often, we blind people aren't given the chance to stretch our wings 
because, to be honest, many sighted people feel its their 
responsibility to help and take care of us be it out of kindness or 
just a desire to get it done faster. That's the value of experiences 
like walking with an NFB friend who understands that I need to stretch 
out as much as they do, especially in an environment like Convention 
for example. From where I'm standing, it's always felt to me like 
there's an unspoken understanding that since we're not exactly in the 
real world, why not get out and explore our talents and sharpen our 
skills? On a much smaller level, I try to foster that sense of 
understanding even when I'm with only one NFB blind friend. In most 
cases, it really doesn't matter how long it takes to get to the grocery 
store. What matters is what happens between the time we leave my 
friend's house and when we get there. Does that make sense?

Respectfully,
Jedi

 Original message:
> This is very interesting. I have to say, I've never really had a situation
> like this. I guess I haven't really traveled with other blind people enough.
> When ever I'm at the Jernigan Institute, everyone around me either seems to
> know where they're going or already have a friend or room mate's arm. I had
> a blind friend when I was in elementary school, and when we would go
> somewhere she would always more than willingly take my arm, but her
> blindness skills were greatly lacking and she had absolutely no desire to
> improve any of them (her parents never believed she could be independent,
> and it seems as a result neither did she). But I did start to feel like a
> custodian, especially as we approached those fiercely independent young teen
> years. It actually began to have some strain on our friendship. Now I'm
> living with my boyfriend who is totally blind, and it's very different. Now
> we do walk sighted-guide from time to time, but it doesn't feel like
> custodializing at all. We're intimately involved with one another and have
> been in a very close relationship for a few years now. People would expect
> to see us more or less attached at the hip when we walk together. But when
> we walk like this, even when I'm guiding him, we do both still actively use
> our canes, if that matters. I just feel like I'm walking with him, not
> necessarily "looking after" him in any way. I think it's also important to
> note, however, that my boyfriend is *very* independent. He follows me with
> ease and often even takes lead. He's confident with his cane travel skills
> and at times I would venture to say his overall O&M is better than mine
> regardless of how much sight either of us has.
> I think it's the responsibility of the blind person first and foremost to
> know what they are capable of. If you know you aren't confident enough with
> your cane to take more than baby steps (or move at all in some cases), and
> you therefore wont be able to simply follow your friend, then it is your
> responsibility to either ask to take their arm or simply say "Go get what
> you need. I'll wait here. No worries." If you don't want to be guided and
> you don't want to wait, consider that all the more motivation to improve on
> mobility. Ultimately, if you have a preference, or a specific thing that
> will work for you, and you know what it is, it's your job to ask for it. It
> isn't your sighted companion's responsability to try and guess at what it
> might be and put themselves out in the process. The sighted person can
> certainly ask "What can we do to make this work better for both of us?", but
> that communication has to be there.


> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Jim Reed <jim275_2 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> Hey all,
>> In an earlier post, I told a breif story about going into a grocery store
>> with a blind guy, and I expressed my perceptions of that situation. Well, I
>> wrote the man who was the subject of that post, and I asked him some
>> questions. I don't think I posed the same questions to you all as I just
>> posed to him, so I have copied and pasted the relevant sections of my
>> letter, and I would like to hear your opinions and answers to the questions
>> I posed.

>> Thanks,

>> Jim
>> Here is the letter
>> _______________________________________________________________-

>> "...
>> Yesterday, when we went into the
>> grocery store, I offered you an elbow which you refused. No problem.
>> Since you refused my elbow, I assumed you knew the store and/or could
>> keep up with me, so, without giving you much of a second thought, I
>> took off looking for one soda cooler or another. However, several times
>> I looked back, and you were standing in almost the same place I left
>> you, or you were very slowly walking towards my general direction. I
>> tried walking slower, but within two steps I was already way in front
>> of you. Then, I would stop (or walk) and purposefully tap my cane to
>> give you a noise to follow, but the tapping did not really seem to make
>> a difference (aat least not in terms of your speed).


>> In general, I felt kind of uncomfortable being in the store with you. I
>> felt uncomfortable walking so slowly next to a grown man who seems in
>> good health, and I felt even more uncomfortable with my "wait and tap"
>> method. My discomfort stems from not having had to deal with these
>> situations (interacting with other blind people) before, and not really
>> knowing how, or what to do, or knowing what is appropriate and/or
>> expected.

>> My instinct is to treat you (or any other blind person)
>> as I would treat any of my sighted friends. That means, in the grocery
>> store for example, that I go from Point A to Point B,  get my stuff,
>> and get out as quickly as possible;  and I expect that my companion
>> will keep up without me slowing down. However, if I would have used
>> that approach with you yesterday, I probably would have been in the
>> store, found and bought our sodas, and been out the store, and you may
>> have still been standing somewhere near where I left you. If that had
>> been the case, I would have felt like a real jerk for having ditched my
>> blind companion because he could not keep up.  On the other hand, the
>> other approach, the custodial approach, is equally uncomfortable to me,
>> and that is the approach I felt like I was using with you (walking real
>> slow and needlessly tapping my cane).

>> I
>> know there has to be a happy medium between my "sink or swim" (keep up
>> or get left behind) approach, and my custodial (walk real slow and tap)
>> approach. For as much as blind people don't want to be custodialized, I
>> don't want to be a custodian. But at the same time, if blind people
>> want to be considered and treated as equals, then I shouldn't feel like
>> I have to wait for them, or accommodate them.

>> Are
>> all accommodations custodialism and a threat to blind independence?
>> Where and how is that line drawn? To what extent is it the
>> responsibility of the blind person to tell hs/her companion what they
>> need and want? What is the sighted person to do if the blind person
>> provides no such guidance? Is it the responsibility of the sighted to, and
>> how should a sighted persons determine and respond to  the needs and wants
>> of a blind companion?

>> In
>> a situation such as ours in the grocery store, the options (as I see
>> them) were for me to slow down, you to speed up, or for you to take my
>> elbow. Why should I slow down? Why should you speed up or take an
>> elbow? How are our differing needs and/or wants reconsiled without you
>> feeling custodialized, and without me feeling like a custodian?

>> Thanks, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts,
>> Jim"


>> "From compromise and things half done,
>> Keep me with stern and stubborn pride,
>> And when at last the fight is won,
>> ... Keep me still unsatisfied." --Louis Untermeyer



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