[nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice

Dezman Jackson jackson.dezman at gmail.com
Wed Jun 24 05:16:42 UTC 2009


Actually, I don't think you would even have to pay a pet fee.

Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jess" <jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice


> Teal,
> They are not allowed to discriminate against you especially when you have 
> the guide dog. You may have to pay a pet deposit on an apartment once you 
> get a guide dog but that is it. It's also illegal for them to discriminate 
> against you because you have a disability. My fiancée and I have been 
> living in New York State since 2004. We lived in Cheektowaga New York 
> which is 15 minutes outside of Buffalo from August of 2004 to December of 
> 2005. Then moved to Watervliet New York which is fifteen minutes outside 
> of Albany New York from December of 2005 to present. Does your boyfriend 
> work or anything? The apartment complexes would have to accept you with 
> your guide dog since about 90% of the time he or she is working and just 
> not a pet.  If neither one of you is working you could file for section 8 
> housing .
> Jessica
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Teal Blooworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
>> Hi All
>>
>> Actually I have found myself and others discussing this particular topic. 
>> Stacey, Tim and I a couple weeks ago in Louisville ventured out on many 
>> occasions to highland coffee and then later 4th st live and actually 
>> everybody wanted to just take us there opposed to simply telling us left 
>> or right or just directions when needed. People would "help" us off the 
>> bus or to the bus stop rather than let us try it ourselves but after some 
>> of them talked to us they realized we were people too and werent afraid 
>> to talk to us any longer.
>>
>> In owensboro where i go to school though it is a different situation. 
>> Teachers treat you differently in class and with me being the only blind 
>> person on campus i was alienated. On one occasion the social psychology 
>> class was doing a project "braking the social norms" and i actually had a 
>> student ask me to borrow my cane for this project. In shock, I let the 
>> girl borrow my spare cane just to find out that they went into target and 
>> knocked stuff off of the shelves. This is a stereotype and us as blind 
>> people cannot do that and really may be treated differently and 
>> stereotipically but still have to follow the same set of rules. Yes we 
>> have some accomodations, and yes we do have to work alittle harder to 
>> follow our dreams but still we are people.
>>
>> One thing i have found is that some people really are curious and do ask 
>> questions and personally i feel this is a good thing because they are 
>> curious and if they know hoew to help you then there is a chance they 
>> will. My boyfriend is also fine with the blindness and has really been a 
>> big help but he still worries about me doing things alone which is 
>> understandable. As for discrimination last week me and him were looking 
>> at apartments and the people gave us the run around and i think this was 
>> because i am blind. Also these apartments were not pet friendly and 
>> friday i found out i was accepted to guiding eyes in new york for the 
>> june 29th slot and they completely turned us down when i told them. 
>> discrimination is out there but is it really worht all the fuss?
>>
>> -Teal
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> According to social psychologists, prejudice is defined as an
>>> emotional reaction (usually negative, but can be positive) to members
>>> of a particular group. In common usage prejudice is often confused
>>> with stereotyping and discrimination. The three are related, but
>>> prejudice is the emotional component, while stereotyping is the
>>> attitude/cognition component and discrimination  is the behavioral
>>> component. In the case of blindness, prejudice might be someone's
>>> reluctance to talk to us (fear or disgust), fear of  becoming blind or
>>> anxiety about our safety. Stereotypes might include "blind people are
>>> slow/incompetent/dirty/can't do X job" or "blind people are all good
>>> at music". Discrimination would be actions like not teaching us to
>>> read, not letting us sit where we  want on an airplane or giving us
>>> preferential treatment like less homework or discounted bus fare. What
>>> the three all have  in common  is  that, even though technically they
>>> can all be either positive or negative, they arise from our group
>>> membership and lead to us all being treated or thought of as the same
>>> because of what group we belong to (i.e. blind  people) rather than
>>> our individual strengths and weaknesses.
>>>
>>> My argument before was that the emotional component (prejudice) is
>>> what underlies a lot of the persistent and hostile discrimination we
>>> get (no matter how many times you show someone how you do a job, they
>>> still don't think you can do it safely/won't let you try)  as well  as
>>> a lot of deficiencies in the services and education we  get (people
>>> feel an emotional aversion twoard blindness, and so are less willing
>>> to give us Braille/canes/let us have independent life experiences).
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 6/17/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can we define prejudice? I know the meaning of the word but perhaps a
>>>> clearer definition or an example as it relates to blindness would
>>>> help. I'm just afraid this will turn into a sighted people bashing
>>>> event; I've seen it before (not on this list) but it's a slippery 
>>>> slope.
>>>> Sarah
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Antonio Guimaraes <aguimaraes at nbp.org>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,,
>>>>>
>>>>> We sometimes seam to do things to prove a point. I would rather take
>>>>> part in some activity because I enjoy it, and want to get something 
>>>>> out
>>>>> of it than I have to prove to sighted people that I can dance, walk,
>>>>> swim, speak, read, sing, breathe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some days we tolerate ignorance better than others, but we should not
>>>>> tolerate discrimination at any time.
>>>>>
>>>>> When have you been discriminated against, and what steps did you take
>>>>> to resolve the situation? What steps should you have taken instead, or
>>>>> do you think your actions were appropriate?
>>>>>
>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" 
>>>>> <marrie12 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:21 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm this sounds like a seminar topic we once might have had at the 
>>>>>> LCB.
>>>>>> I've
>>>>>> ben lucky so far. My dance teacher is making me, for the first fiew 
>>>>>> times
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> I can get my barengs use my cane while doing the steps, and mainly so 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> get my ballence issues sorted out, but there will come a time, and 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> already has where I am out there on my own with theother students and 
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> have to perform this stuff in less then a month. Will I have my cane 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> dance with, no, but I feel confident enough  to know the ruteen and 
>>>>>> bee
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the exact pisition I'm supposed to be in. Now the person who is 
>>>>>> helping
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> just needs to tell me the steps and when to move and whair but like I
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> bnefore there will come a time when even that will probably not 
>>>>>> happen in
>>>>>> performance day. Am I afraid, Yes. However, I know that if I know the
>>>>>> steps
>>>>>> and get my barengs, I will be able ot show the sighted audience that 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> dance even though I have no site. There is a lot of truth in what you 
>>>>>> say
>>>>>> and I believe that by showing the sighted people, in my case that I 
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> dance, maybe not well, but I can dance, sing, and act, this will open
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> eyes, and many doors for me, and other blind people in the future. I 
>>>>>> hope
>>>>>> what I said makes sence. Sorry I rambled it is way too early in the
>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>> Hehaha!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh just in case anyone is interested in the dance class and what we 
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> google "life long dreams" in Nevada.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Arielle Silverman
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM
>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Recently we've been talking about airline discrimination, which has
>>>>>> historically served as a good representation of the kind of 
>>>>>> second-class
>>>>>> treatment that we often get in everyday interactions with members of 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> public. I think Jedi made some good points in describing the tendency 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> some sighted people to judge us as incompetent based on the role of 
>>>>>> sight
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> their own lives and their assumption that losing their sight would 
>>>>>> leave
>>>>>> them incapacitated. It is true that we are a tiny minority (even 
>>>>>> within
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>> community) and that a lot of sighted people simply don't know how we
>>>>>> perform
>>>>>> everyday tasks. In some cases this ignorance leads to discriminatory
>>>>>> treatment ("The blind person can't sit in the exit
>>>>>> row") or stereotypes ("Blind people are slow").
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I've always found fascinating, though, is that lack of
>>>>>> knowledge-ignorance-doesn't always translate into discrimination. In 
>>>>>> fact
>>>>>> many sighted people are simply curious, and if we tell or show them 
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> use the computer, read or travel, they quickly accept our alternative
>>>>>> techniques and treat us just the same as everyone else.
>>>>>> But this doesn't happen all  the time. And then, on the flip side, 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> those who know all the facts about blindness and still "don't get 
>>>>>> it".
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> includes, for  instance, the mobility instructor who's taught O&M for
>>>>>> thirty
>>>>>> years but who still insists that you should walk three blocks out of 
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> way rather than cross a busy intersection. Many of us find that our 
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> parents make more of a big deal out of our blindness than do people 
>>>>>> we've
>>>>>> just met, even if our parents have met competent blind people or been 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> blindness workshops, know Braille, etc. So there definitely is a
>>>>>> difference
>>>>>> between ignorance and prejudice. The combination of both is bad, but 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> easily have one without the other. And it's prejudice, not ignorance,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> actually causes us trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, while we can easily remedy ignorance with simple
>>>>>> education,
>>>>>> alleviating prejudice isn't that simple. It seems like much of the
>>>>>> persistence of people's prejudices comes from their emotional or 
>>>>>> "gut"
>>>>>> reactions to blindness. The experienced teacher of blind students may
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> all the facts about Braille, including the fact that children who 
>>>>>> learn
>>>>>> Braille while young can read just as fast as sighted children. And 
>>>>>> yet,
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> some gut level the teacher feels an aversion to Braille, seeing it as 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> stigma or a symbol of weakness. So no matter how well this teacher is
>>>>>> trained, if she gets a kid in her caseload who has partial sight, 
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to be  a struggle for the teacher to actively teach the child 
>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> parent who finds his child's blindness frightening, likewise, is 
>>>>>> going to
>>>>>> have a hard time letting the child play outside or do chores, no 
>>>>>> matter
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> much he reads about what is best for blind children, unless he 
>>>>>> figures
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> how to let go of  his fear. I think so much of the success of our
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> centers comes from their ability to not only teach us practical 
>>>>>> skills,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> also help us  overcome our own fears and negative feelings about
>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet, as Monica has demonstrated, there  are those sighted people 
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> display a lack of prejudice and who automatically include us and 
>>>>>> treat us
>>>>>> normally without any prior knowledge about blindness or education on 
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> parts. We all know sighted people like this, even though we often 
>>>>>> tend to
>>>>>> spend most of our mental energy grumbling about the sighted people 
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> treat
>>>>>> us strangely. My boyfriend never met a single blind person before me, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> yet in some ways seems to instinctively "get it" more than my mother, 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> example, who besides raising me for twenty-four years, also read many 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> leading  books about raising a blind child. (Never mind that many of 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> messages espoused in those books are rooted in prejudices of their 
>>>>>> own).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So  what do you guys think makes the difference between those
>>>>>> members of the sighted public who show prejudice and those who don't? 
>>>>>> Is
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> something about their personalities or experiences? And if simple
>>>>>> educating
>>>>>> isn't enough to address people's deep-seated emotional reactions, 
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> we do about it? Do we have any control over whether the sighted guy 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> street grabs us or treats us with respect? It's easy enough for us to
>>>>>> tell
>>>>>> who will be responsive to education about blindness and who won't. 
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> those who aren't responsive, how do we deal with them civilly while 
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> protecting our rights and our freedom? And how do we deal with 
>>>>>> educators
>>>>>> like O&M instructors, who have power over what we learn or what
>>>>>> accommodations we get but whose judgments are affected by their
>>>>>> misconceptions about blindness?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on this topic, as it's central 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> we act as an organization and how we can really change what it means 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> blind for ourselves and for others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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