[nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice

Wed Jun 24 15:51:03 UTC 2009

I agree with Janice.  No pet fees, no deposits, nothing should be
forced on you because the guide dog is not a pet.  It's the same thing
if you needed a wheelchair and you were also paralyzed and had one of
them little monkeys.
Beth

On 6/24/09, Janice <snowball07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Teal,
>
> You are not allowed to be asked to pay a pet fee, a pet deposit, pet rent,
> or anything else that is related to such. This is because your dog is not a
> pet. it is and will be a mobility aid. When I went to TSE- The Seeing Eye, I
> was provided little cards with the ADA and dog guide accessibility rights on
> it. I am sure that once you know exactly what your school preferred mode of
> action in these cases is, it will be easier to deal with. Might I suggest
> that you just do not mention the dog for now. Then when you come back with
> him/ her deal with it then. I have lived in dorm rooms with my Seeing Eye
> dog, various apartments and houses, etc... and not really had too much of an
> issue. You know it is within your right by the law to have the dog, even in
> areas where dogs are quote "not allowed", because they are not a pet. So, I
> would say ask for forgiveness and not for permission... even though you
> shouldn't have to ask for either.
> Cheers,
>
> Janice
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dezman Jackson" <jackson.dezman at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
> Actually, I don't think you would even have to pay a pet fee.
>
> Dezman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess" <jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>
>
>> Teal,
>> They are not allowed to discriminate against you especially when you have
>> the guide dog. You may have to pay a pet deposit on an apartment once you
>> get a guide dog but that is it. It's also illegal for them to discriminate
>>
>> against you because you have a disability. My fiancée and I have been
>> living in New York State since 2004. We lived in Cheektowaga New York
>> which is 15 minutes outside of Buffalo from August of 2004 to December of
>> 2005. Then moved to Watervliet New York which is fifteen minutes outside
>> of Albany New York from December of 2005 to present. Does your boyfriend
>> work or anything? The apartment complexes would have to accept you with
>> your guide dog since about 90% of the time he or she is working and just
>> not a pet.  If neither one of you is working you could file for section 8
>> housing .
>> Jessica
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Teal Blooworth" <tealbloodworth at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> Actually I have found myself and others discussing this particular topic.
>>>
>>> Stacey, Tim and I a couple weeks ago in Louisville ventured out on many
>>> occasions to highland coffee and then later 4th st live and actually
>>> everybody wanted to just take us there opposed to simply telling us left
>>> or right or just directions when needed. People would "help" us off the
>>> bus or to the bus stop rather than let us try it ourselves but after some
>>>
>>> of them talked to us they realized we were people too and werent afraid
>>> to talk to us any longer.
>>>
>>> In owensboro where i go to school though it is a different situation.
>>> Teachers treat you differently in class and with me being the only blind
>>> person on campus i was alienated. On one occasion the social psychology
>>> class was doing a project "braking the social norms" and i actually had a
>>>
>>> student ask me to borrow my cane for this project. In shock, I let the
>>> girl borrow my spare cane just to find out that they went into target and
>>>
>>> knocked stuff off of the shelves. This is a stereotype and us as blind
>>> people cannot do that and really may be treated differently and
>>> stereotipically but still have to follow the same set of rules. Yes we
>>> have some accomodations, and yes we do have to work alittle harder to
>>> follow our dreams but still we are people.
>>>
>>> One thing i have found is that some people really are curious and do ask
>>> questions and personally i feel this is a good thing because they are
>>> curious and if they know hoew to help you then there is a chance they
>>> will. My boyfriend is also fine with the blindness and has really been a
>>> big help but he still worries about me doing things alone which is
>>> understandable. As for discrimination last week me and him were looking
>>> at apartments and the people gave us the run around and i think this was
>>> because i am blind. Also these apartments were not pet friendly and
>>> friday i found out i was accepted to guiding eyes in new york for the
>>> june 29th slot and they completely turned us down when i told them.
>>> discrimination is out there but is it really worht all the fuss?
>>>
>>> -Teal
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 12:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> According to social psychologists, prejudice is defined as an
>>>> emotional reaction (usually negative, but can be positive) to members
>>>> of a particular group. In common usage prejudice is often confused
>>>> with stereotyping and discrimination. The three are related, but
>>>> prejudice is the emotional component, while stereotyping is the
>>>> attitude/cognition component and discrimination  is the behavioral
>>>> component. In the case of blindness, prejudice might be someone's
>>>> reluctance to talk to us (fear or disgust), fear of  becoming blind or
>>>> anxiety about our safety. Stereotypes might include "blind people are
>>>> slow/incompetent/dirty/can't do X job" or "blind people are all good
>>>> at music". Discrimination would be actions like not teaching us to
>>>> read, not letting us sit where we  want on an airplane or giving us
>>>> preferential treatment like less homework or discounted bus fare. What
>>>> the three all have  in common  is  that, even though technically they
>>>> can all be either positive or negative, they arise from our group
>>>> membership and lead to us all being treated or thought of as the same
>>>> because of what group we belong to (i.e. blind  people) rather than
>>>> our individual strengths and weaknesses.
>>>>
>>>> My argument before was that the emotional component (prejudice) is
>>>> what underlies a lot of the persistent and hostile discrimination we
>>>> get (no matter how many times you show someone how you do a job, they
>>>> still don't think you can do it safely/won't let you try)  as well  as
>>>> a lot of deficiencies in the services and education we  get (people
>>>> feel an emotional aversion twoard blindness, and so are less willing
>>>> to give us Braille/canes/let us have independent life experiences).
>>>>
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 6/17/09, sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we define prejudice? I know the meaning of the word but perhaps a
>>>>> clearer definition or an example as it relates to blindness would
>>>>> help. I'm just afraid this will turn into a sighted people bashing
>>>>> event; I've seen it before (not on this list) but it's a slippery
>>>>> slope.
>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting Antonio Guimaraes <aguimaraes at nbp.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We sometimes seam to do things to prove a point. I would rather take
>>>>>> part in some activity because I enjoy it, and want to get something
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> of it than I have to prove to sighted people that I can dance, walk,
>>>>>> swim, speak, read, sing, breathe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some days we tolerate ignorance better than others, but we should not
>>>>>> tolerate discrimination at any time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When have you been discriminated against, and what steps did you take
>>>>>> to resolve the situation? What steps should you have taken instead, or
>>>>>> do you think your actions were appropriate?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami"
>>>>>> <marrie12 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hmm this sounds like a seminar topic we once might have had at the
>>>>>>> LCB.
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> ben lucky so far. My dance teacher is making me, for the first fiew
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> I can get my barengs use my cane while doing the steps, and mainly so
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> get my ballence issues sorted out, but there will come a time, and
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> already has where I am out there on my own with theother students and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> have to perform this stuff in less then a month. Will I have my cane
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> dance with, no, but I feel confident enough  to know the ruteen and
>>>>>>> bee
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the exact pisition I'm supposed to be in. Now the person who is
>>>>>>> helping
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> just needs to tell me the steps and when to move and whair but like I
>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>> bnefore there will come a time when even that will probably not
>>>>>>> happen in
>>>>>>> performance day. Am I afraid, Yes. However, I know that if I know the
>>>>>>> steps
>>>>>>> and get my barengs, I will be able ot show the sighted audience that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance even though I have no site. There is a lot of truth in what you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> say
>>>>>>> and I believe that by showing the sighted people, in my case that I
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> dance, maybe not well, but I can dance, sing, and act, this will open
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> eyes, and many doors for me, and other blind people in the future. I
>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>> what I said makes sence. Sorry I rambled it is way too early in the
>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>> Hehaha!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh just in case anyone is interested in the dance class and what we
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> google "life long dreams" in Nevada.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Arielle Silverman
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 10:01 PM
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Ignorance vs. Prejudice
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Recently we've been talking about airline discrimination, which has
>>>>>>> historically served as a good representation of the kind of
>>>>>>> second-class
>>>>>>> treatment that we often get in everyday interactions with members of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> public. I think Jedi made some good points in describing the tendency
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> some sighted people to judge us as incompetent based on the role of
>>>>>>> sight
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> their own lives and their assumption that losing their sight would
>>>>>>> leave
>>>>>>> them incapacitated. It is true that we are a tiny minority (even
>>>>>>> within
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>>>> community) and that a lot of sighted people simply don't know how we
>>>>>>> perform
>>>>>>> everyday tasks. In some cases this ignorance leads to discriminatory
>>>>>>> treatment ("The blind person can't sit in the exit
>>>>>>> row") or stereotypes ("Blind people are slow").
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I've always found fascinating, though, is that lack of
>>>>>>> knowledge-ignorance-doesn't always translate into discrimination. In
>>>>>>> fact
>>>>>>> many sighted people are simply curious, and if we tell or show them
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> use the computer, read or travel, they quickly accept our alternative
>>>>>>> techniques and treat us just the same as everyone else.
>>>>>>> But this doesn't happen all  the time. And then, on the flip side,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> those who know all the facts about blindness and still "don't get
>>>>>>> it".
>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>> includes, for  instance, the mobility instructor who's taught O&M for
>>>>>>> thirty
>>>>>>> years but who still insists that you should walk three blocks out of
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> way rather than cross a busy intersection. Many of us find that our
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> parents make more of a big deal out of our blindness than do people
>>>>>>> we've
>>>>>>> just met, even if our parents have met competent blind people or been
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> blindness workshops, know Braille, etc. So there definitely is a
>>>>>>> difference
>>>>>>> between ignorance and prejudice. The combination of both is bad, but
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> easily have one without the other. And it's prejudice, not ignorance,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> actually causes us trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, while we can easily remedy ignorance with simple
>>>>>>> education,
>>>>>>> alleviating prejudice isn't that simple. It seems like much of the
>>>>>>> persistence of people's prejudices comes from their emotional or
>>>>>>> "gut"
>>>>>>> reactions to blindness. The experienced teacher of blind students may
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> all the facts about Braille, including the fact that children who
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> Braille while young can read just as fast as sighted children. And
>>>>>>> yet,
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> some gut level the teacher feels an aversion to Braille, seeing it as
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> stigma or a symbol of weakness. So no matter how well this teacher is
>>>>>>> trained, if she gets a kid in her caseload who has partial sight,
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to be  a struggle for the teacher to actively teach the child
>>>>>>> Braille.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> parent who finds his child's blindness frightening, likewise, is
>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>> have a hard time letting the child play outside or do chores, no
>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> much he reads about what is best for blind children, unless he
>>>>>>> figures
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> how to let go of  his fear. I think so much of the success of our
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> centers comes from their ability to not only teach us practical
>>>>>>> skills,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> also help us  overcome our own fears and negative feelings about
>>>>>>> blindness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yet, as Monica has demonstrated, there  are those sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> display a lack of prejudice and who automatically include us and
>>>>>>> treat us
>>>>>>> normally without any prior knowledge about blindness or education on
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> parts. We all know sighted people like this, even though we often
>>>>>>> tend to
>>>>>>> spend most of our mental energy grumbling about the sighted people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> treat
>>>>>>> us strangely. My boyfriend never met a single blind person before me,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> yet in some ways seems to instinctively "get it" more than my mother,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> example, who besides raising me for twenty-four years, also read many
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> leading  books about raising a blind child. (Never mind that many of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> messages espoused in those books are rooted in prejudices of their
>>>>>>> own).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So  what do you guys think makes the difference between those
>>>>>>> members of the sighted public who show prejudice and those who don't?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> something about their personalities or experiences? And if simple
>>>>>>> educating
>>>>>>> isn't enough to address people's deep-seated emotional reactions,
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> we do about it? Do we have any control over whether the sighted guy
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> street grabs us or treats us with respect? It's easy enough for us to
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> who will be responsive to education about blindness and who won't.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those who aren't responsive, how do we deal with them civilly while
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> protecting our rights and our freedom? And how do we deal with
>>>>>>> educators
>>>>>>> like O&M instructors, who have power over what we learn or what
>>>>>>> accommodations we get but whose judgments are affected by their
>>>>>>> misconceptions about blindness?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I look forward to a lively discussion on this topic, as it's central
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> we act as an organization and how we can really change what it means
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> blind for ourselves and for others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aguimaraes%40nbp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/snowball07%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>