[nabs-l] The "state of the student divisions"
T. Joseph Carter
carter.tjoseph at gmail.com
Thu May 7 03:26:10 UTC 2009
Angela,
I think we're getting our regular Joes mixed up here.
Nathan replied to T. Joseph Carter (that's me) with a message that
seems to have been directed at Joe Orozco. I, seeing that it was a
reply to me, responded as if it had been directed to me. (I have
been known to respond to Joe, though my preference is Joseph.)
We have to remember to keep our loquacious and undispassionate
Josephs delineated.
Joseph
On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 06:00:38PM -0700, Angela fowler wrote:
>Good come-back Joe, bravo!
>I personally have been learning since I was a teenager that I don't know
>everything. I'm forever learning. (grin)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 4:33 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] The "state of the student divisions"
>
>Nathan,
>
>Are you saying that you're learning that I don't know everything, or that we
>are all learning and therefore not expected to know everything?
>
>Either one looks correct to me. *grin*
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 04:13:42PM -0400, Nathan Clark wrote:
>>Dear Joe
>>We are learning. You don't know everything.
>>
>>
>>On 5/6/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> They do. It was private enough that I hadn't noticed it. *grin*
>>>
>>> Joseph
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 10:48:22PM -0700, Bill wrote:
>>>>Might it be helpful for the nabs state presidents to have a private
>>>>list like the state affiliate presidents do. This would make it
>>>>easier for things like this to be sent to the people who really want to
>see it.
>>>>Bill VP
>>>>Oregon Association of Blind Students
>>>>503-768-8982
>>>>cassonw at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Mary Fernandez
>>>> <trillian551 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I cannot agree with Arielle more. Blind students are a minority,
>>>>> and as such we should strive to help and support each other rather
>>>>> than argue and accuse each other. It is true that this grant came
>>>>> out, and some took advantage, some did not. It was mis-information,
>>>>> or lost information. But that's not what really matters: now we
>>>>> know that vital information can be lost in the list-serve, so
>>>>> instead of making such a big deal out of it, lets figure out a
>>>>> better way of disseminating important announcements, and there
>>>>> already have been suggestions, and get on with it. This is not the
>>>>> last grant for which we'll have an opportunity to apply. Next year,
>>>>> we will be more aware of what is going on, and take full advantage
>>>>> of it, if it is a reasonable goal for our individual state
>>>>> divisions. so lets work together, and learn to learn from our
>>>>> mistakes, take constructive criticism, and add it all up, so that
>>>>> our individual states become stronger and better organized, thus
>>>>> making our national presence also stronger.
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/4/09, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > Hi all,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Having watched this thread unfold over the past few days, I don't
>>>>> > feel it is necessary or appropriate for us to be sending emails
>>>>> > back and forth with such an accusatory tone. The grant
>>>>> > opportunity did go out on the list, but as others have pointed
>>>>> > out, many of us simply missed it. This isn't anybody's fault but
>>>>> > just something that happens on high-traffic email lists. In the
>>>>> > future we may want to set up a page within the NABS website to
>>>>> > post such grant opportunities, and/or repost it a few times.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I also don't feel it appropriate for us to be putting down
>>>>> > student divisions who knew about the grant but who didn't follow up
>on it.
>>>>> > This should be seen as a learning opportunity for the future
>>>>> > rather than a chance to tear each other down.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Our student divisions are all in existence because of the
>>>>> > motivation and drive of their leaders, but as we've discussed
>>>>> > frequently here and at NABS events, many of our state divisions
>>>>> > are small, young, and/or struggling to establish or maintain
>>>>> > basic structure. Again, much of this is just a result of being
>>>>> > part of a small community, and being students. There simply
>>>>> > aren't a huge number of blind students in any state, and student
>>>>> > organizations in general tend to be transient at times. For these
>>>>> > reasons, it can be difficult for many state divisions to get
>>>>> > organized quickly enough to decide what kind of project they
>>>>> > would want to do with grant funding, let alone writing a proposal
>>>>> > and being able to commit to pulling it off. For example, when I
>>>>> > was president of the Arizona student division we wanted to
>>>>> > organize a camping/hiking trip, but we simply couldn't get enough
>>>>> > students to make a commitment to participate to go forward with
>>>>> > planning the logistics. In this kind of situation a grant may or
>>>>> > may not have helped to bring more students into the event-money is
>nice, but isn't everything.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > That's not to say that we should just accept inactivity from our
>>>>> > student divisions, however. Let's see Joe's message as a
>>>>> > challenge rather than an attack, and all go back to our states to
>>>>> > decide what new projects we'd like to initiate, and make a real
>>>>> > commitment to spearhead these projects. It doesn't have to be
>>>>> > anything big, or even anything that requires outside funding, but
>>>>> > just something new to get more students in or at least to
>>>>> > motivate and inspire our existing members.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Remember that the NABS board members are all here to offer
>>>>> > support and guidance, and feel free to email any of us if you
>>>>> > have questions, or even if you'd just like one of us to sit in on
>>>>> > your next division conference call.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Respectfully,
>>>>> > Arielle Silverman
>>>>> > First Vice-President, NABS
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 5/5/09, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> Jim,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think it's a fair concern. There are lots of reasons why
>>>>> >> students divisions may not be doing well, but if they are not,
>>>>> >> we need to know about it. Certainly, Joe cannot be expected to
>>>>> >> do more--and we all have our own circumstances that may reduce
>>>>> >> what time we can give to the organization.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Even so, if more is needed, need to be honest with ourselves
>>>>> >> about the nature of the problem or else we cannot solve it. I
>>>>> >> don't know if Joe's concern is founded or not, since I can speak
>>>>> >> only for Oregon.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Joseph
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 01:22:48PM -0700, Jim Reed wrote:
>>>>> >>>Joe,
>>>>> >>>I am somewhat offended by you questioning the state of the state
>>>>> >>>student divisions, simply based on the poor turnout for your
>>>>> >>>grant.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>I will tell you what the state of the state divisions is:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>As students we are all still learning.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>As students, we are all busy.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>We are all hear as volunteers because we want to be. We are
>>>>> >>>hoping to
>>>>> make
>>>>> >>> a better life for ourselves and others; but, as vollenteeers,
>>>>> >>> we are
>>>>> not
>>>>> >>> obligated to do anyuthing.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>As volunteers, not all of us will have the all the requisite
>>>>> >>>skills
>>>>> needed
>>>>> >>> to serve our organizations, thus serving in a state division is
>>>>> >>> also a learning oppertunity. It is incumbent upon national and
>>>>> >>> state
>>>>> leadership
>>>>> >>> to make sure we have the oppertunity to learn the requisite
>skills.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>So Joe, next time, instead of threatening to call people out for
>>>>> >>>being lazy if they don't fill out your grant application,
>>>>> >>>offer to teach us the grant writing process. If you truely
>>>>> >>>think we are incapable to manage a
>>>>> grant,
>>>>> >>> then do something to fix that situation. Otherwise, please
>>>>> >>> keep your judgemental comments to yourself.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>The state of the state divisions is not one of appathy; given
>>>>> >>>the right conditions and oppertunities, it is one of desire,
>>>>> >>>energy, and willingness to learn.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>Respectfully,
>>>>> >>>Jim Reed
>>>>> >>>President, Montana Association of Blind Students
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>"Ignorance killed the cat; curiosity was framed."
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>> >>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>>> Emory University 2012
>>>>> P.O. Box 123056
>>>>> Atlanta Ga.
>>>>> 30322
>>>>> Phone: 732-857-7004
>>>>> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that
>>>>> greatness is never a given. It must be earned.
>>>>> President Barack Obama
>>>>>
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