From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 00:10:08 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:10:08 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Understanding Symbolic Logic textbook In-Reply-To: <20090827035144.GB46555@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <9FC9E5E7C48A4BB4A42DE8EDDE8F61C3@dwrigh6> <20090826154405.GK44583@yumi.bluecherry.net> <090C885BAEDD44F28A0DF6F303E88026@Ashley> <20090827035144.GB46555@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <85ff10070908311710h70ebc6c8mc7e49d93b94bf5d5@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Let's not forget that in many situations where accessible materials cannot be found for whatever reason, paid or volunteer readers can stand in. They're not perfect, but in my opinion, much better to hire a reader than to not take a course. Unfortunately many DSO's don't present readers as an option, perhaps believing that readers are outdated or no longer necessary. But clearly, if independent access isn't an option due to technological limitations or other factors beyond the student's control, readers are an acceptable alternative and in some cases even better than alternative formats. And, remember that you can always negotiate a reader deal on your own--even if your DSO doesn't provide them as a routine accommodation. I think it's tempting to assume that using readers makes us more dependent. If the relationship you have with your reader is an appropriate supervisor-employee relationship, though, readers can expand your independence and enable you to tackle more challenging material in a more timely manner than waiting on an outside entity to provide alternative format. Arielle On 8/27/09, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Ashley, > > Most of what you need to know is found here: > > http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/index.html > > I think you'll likely want to read this in particular: > > http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/howto.html > > Being unable to take the class is its own consequence, more so > because you likely had to pay for the class and would not likely > receive full refund. > > As for remedy requested, I'd say the remedy is simple: Provide what > accommodations are needed for you to take the course, along with a > discount in tuition equal to that you were not refunded when you had > to drop the class before. > > These things are usually settled by agreements--either early > agreement between you and the university, or between the OCR and the > university. The former is problematic in that you won't have the OCR > to ensure they do what they need to do. The latter you have no > control over. All you may do is file a new complaint if they don't > follow the agreement. > > Any complaint may result in retaliation, which is not permitted, but > happens. If it does, you simply need to fine another complaint. > > Joseph > > -- > How many children in America are not taught how to read? > If they are blind, the answer is 90%. > Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 01:16:32PM -0400, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Joseph, >> >> I agree that the university has an obligation to provide accomodations >> and certainly to recommend not taking the class is no accomodation. >> >> I was at Marymount and I also was told not to take a class. It was a >> communication class named broadcast delivery and students had to prepare >> scripts and deliver on video for it. They said that I wouldn't see and >> thus be able to practice the nonverbal communication such as gestures. >> It didn't help the instructor was absent and the substitutes I had could >> not accomodate me; the instructor was away on medical leave a few weeks. >> The students practiced broadcast delivery such as public service >> announcements by reading the text and handouts. I read braille but this >> was not in braille or large print. So I couldn't do it. >> My point being the university did not accomodate me and they pressured me >> to drop the class and I did. >> >> I did not know you could file complaints. I thought that was for grades >> K-12. >> If I go back to school for another degree or grad school I'll keep this >> in mind. >> >> How do you file complaints >> with the office of civil rights in the department of education? >> What happens after you do it? I suppose you have to prove harm to >> justify your complaint. How do they resolve complaints? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Understanding Symbolic Logic textbook >> >> >>> Dave, >>> >>> Were I your roommate, I would file a complaint with the Office for >>> Civil Rights in the Department of Education straight away. The >>> university has an obligation to provide an accommodation here, and the >>> recommendation not to take the course is no accommodation! >>> >>> A good course in logic should be required study in my opinion because >>> of the value I have gained from it. It was required for the CS degree >>> I originally worked toward, but has been applicable to every other >>> field I have even investigated. >>> >>> They would have the same trouble with a symbolic logic text that they >>> have with a math text. Do they recommend that he not take math either? >>> This is inexcusable. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> -- >>> How many children in America are not taught how to read? >>> If they are blind, the answer is 90%. >>> Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 06:28:28PM -0500, Dave Wright wrote: >>>> Good evening all, I have a roommate who is in the process of >>>> searching without success for a textbook for one of his classes. The >>>> title of the book is: Understanding symbolic logic, by Virginia Klenk >>>> 3rd Ed >>>> >>>> He's been told by a number of representatives from the university's >>>> office of disabilities to not take the class as they would have a >>>> difficult time converting the materials. As we all know, this can be >>>> a rather frustrating situation. Any thoughts concerning this matter >>>> would be much appreciated. >>>> >>>> Best Regards: >>>> Dave Wright >>>> Work Phone: 347-422-7085 >>>> Email: >>>> dwrigh6 at gmail.com >>>> WebPage: >>>> http://www.knfbreader.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4364 (20090824) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Tue Sep 1 02:19:26 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:19:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone interaction with the computer Message-ID: <4FFD2A38CA78423EA4E30887AB59BA1E@thedjdinvasion> Hi All! Does anyone know of a good package that's accessible with jaws that works with the NV2 from LG that can Allow you to manage your address book using your computer Upload ring tones and also set ringtones for specific callers A software package called Datapilot claims to do this, but I can't see where you can manage what callers get what ringtones. From what I saw from the site, it says you can do this, but on first blush, it doesn't appear like you can. If anyone knows about this or other similar packages, please email here or off list at djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >From David ***** If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio station, and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out the station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're able to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and more! To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at http://www.radio360.us Follow us on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa or add us to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4385 (20090831) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From mhartle at nfb.org Tue Sep 1 15:21:32 2009 From: mhartle at nfb.org (Thorpe, Mary Jo) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 10:21:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Big Announcement!! about Braille Readers are Leaders Contest Message-ID: HI Federationists and Friends, We are pleased to announce that this fall there will be some new additions to the NFB's wonderful Braille Readers are Leaders program. For starters, we are going to be expanding the program to include some new categories. New categories will include competitions for : **Teens--beginner, intermediate, and advanced readers **Adults--beginner, intermediate, and advanced readers And so much more! Don't worry though. We're still keeping the original Braille Readers are Leaders that we all know and love. But, we will be adding some new components to that as well. The program is slated to kick off in November with these new additions, so start brushing up on your contractions and warming up those fingers! Please stay tuned for more details as they develop. If you have ideas or suggestions for Braille Readers are Leaders, or any other Braille programs, please let me know. You can contact me at the National Center, or email me at Mhartle at nfb.org or Mthorpe at nfb.org. Thanks. Sincerely, Mary Jo T. Hartle Mary Jo Thorpe-Hartle, MEd, NOMC Director of Education Jernigan Institute NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 1800 Johnson St. Baltimore, MD 21230 Phone: (410)659-9314 ext. 2407 Email: MTHORPE at nfb.org Fax: (410) 659-5129 Visit www.nfb.org From aec732 at msn.com Tue Sep 1 18:24:23 2009 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:24:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] responses to Jennifer and to Kevin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jennifer, RFB&D's focus is academic books so you may not fidn the leisure reading you want. You can suggest titles to Janice Treggett, th ebook acquisition librarian at: jtreggett at rfbd.org Kevin, sounds like you just about are there with downloads from RFB&D. If you still are stuck, call 1-800-221-4792 and select 4 for tech asupport. Michele or Kristen will be pleased to walk you through the part that still is causing you difficulty. Let me know how it goes! Thanks, Annemarie Cooke RFB&D consultant From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Tue Sep 1 21:27:30 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:27:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Anyone had success with SimNet based courses Message-ID: <15502748C0754F2AA5867C087B88DF38@D3DTZP41> Hello: As part of my studies, I am supposed to take a self-paced class in Excel. The class uses something called SimNet by McGraw Hill. The student buys this "card" and can then log onto a site where various Microsoft products are simulated. Anyone had luck using JAWS with this? Thank you. Regards, Robert From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 1 21:34:31 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:34:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard Message-ID: <7933B1D14C3344AAAA4E8EC4DB2E0393@dwrigh6> Good afternoon all, I'm currently attempting to access a discussion board on blackboard for a number of my classes with minimal success. Although I can successfully access the board threads, I'm not able to reply to any. When I activate the reply to thread link, I'm presented with a security warning which I cannot read. Although my blackboard session is still open, I'm not able to navigate around the sight. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I can't imagine what security warning I would need to confirm in order to reply to a discussion thread. Best Regards: Dave Wright Work Phone: 347-422-7085 Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com WebPage: http://www.knfbreader.com From haltaf at carrollu.edu Tue Sep 1 22:40:08 2009 From: haltaf at carrollu.edu (Hina) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:40:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard References: <7933B1D14C3344AAAA4E8EC4DB2E0393@dwrigh6> Message-ID: <6A3B064BCAC74807A550562142A60D6A@DB8D43F1> hi dave, i used black board and had same problem. i had to change from jaws to pc cursor and still it used to take me more then an hour to configure it unless i had a sighted person around to click on the frame. the frames they added recently made this site even more inaccessible for screen readers. hina. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Wright" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:34 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard Good afternoon all, I'm currently attempting to access a discussion board on blackboard for a number of my classes with minimal success. Although I can successfully access the board threads, I'm not able to reply to any. When I activate the reply to thread link, I'm presented with a security warning which I cannot read. Although my blackboard session is still open, I'm not able to navigate around the sight. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I can't imagine what security warning I would need to confirm in order to reply to a discussion thread. Best Regards: Dave Wright Work Phone: 347-422-7085 Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com WebPage: http://www.knfbreader.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/haltaf%40carrollu.edu From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 2 06:06:16 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 01:06:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard References: <7933B1D14C3344AAAA4E8EC4DB2E0393@dwrigh6> <6A3B064BCAC74807A550562142A60D6A@DB8D43F1> Message-ID: Since my last post to this thread, I've managed to find the following on google which may help with accessing the discussion boards more consistently. http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/accessibility/accessbridge/index.jsp As I'm even now attempting to post a reply, my browser locks up when I activate the "Reply" link. After installing the Java access bridge, I still have no access to the powerpoint presentations. I've been notified by sighted individuals that there are buttons that I am unable to find after trying on 2 windows machines: Windows XP Home and Windows 7, running IE8. Thus far, I've attempted to gain access using JAWS10, System Access, and Windoweyes 7.1. My next course of action is to follow the steps presented on the following page: http://cats.cdl.edu/cats-kb-wiki/tips-for-students-using-jaws-with-blackboardwebct-ce6/vista-4\ http://www.cod.edu/it/blackboard/ http://www.blackboard.com/company/accessibility.aspx http://hightech.redwoods.edu/accessibility/blackboard.htm At this point, probably the most frustrating aspect of this search is that none of this information was known by the UIC Disability Resource Center, DRC. All thoughts welcome. The reply link when activated has a hard time keeping focus when accessed with any known windows screenreader. I've realized that if I move my finger around the trackpad for a while, eventually my finger will land on the subject field, which when I left click on, causes the screenreader to again track focus. At this point, I can tab to the field for the message body where I paste in my reply text that I've had to type in a separate document. Best Regards: Dave Wright Work Phone: 347-422-7085 Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com WebPage: http://www.knfbreader.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hina" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard > hi dave, > i used black board and had same problem. i had to change from jaws to pc > cursor and still it used to take me more then an hour to configure it > unless i had a sighted person around to click on the frame. the frames > they added recently made this site even more inaccessible for screen > readers. > hina. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Wright" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:34 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard > > > Good afternoon all, > I'm currently attempting to access a discussion board on blackboard for a > number of my classes with minimal success. Although I can successfully > access the board threads, I'm not able to reply to any. When I activate > the reply to thread link, I'm presented with a security warning which I > cannot read. Although my blackboard session is still open, I'm not able to > navigate around the sight. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I can't > imagine what security warning I would need to confirm in order to reply to > a discussion thread. > > > Best Regards: > Dave Wright > Work Phone: 347-422-7085 > Email: > dwrigh6 at gmail.com > WebPage: > http://www.knfbreader.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/haltaf%40carrollu.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Wed Sep 2 12:57:59 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 05:57:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] responses to Jennifer and to Kevin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090902125759.GE6932@yumi.bluecherry.net> It is so nice to have Annemarie back at RFB&D even as a consultant, isn't it? *smile* Joseph -- How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90%--more than 52,000 children! Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 02:24:23PM -0400, Annemarie Cooke wrote: > >Hi Jennifer, RFB&D's focus is academic books so you may not fidn the leisure reading you want. You can suggest titles to Janice Treggett, th ebook acquisition librarian at: jtreggett at rfbd.org > > > >Kevin, sounds like you just about are there with downloads from RFB&D. If you still are stuck, call 1-800-221-4792 and select 4 for tech asupport. Michele or Kristen will be pleased to walk you through the part that still is causing you difficulty. > >Let me know how it goes! > >Thanks, > >Annemarie Cooke > >RFB&D consultant >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com From trev.saunders at gmail.com Wed Sep 2 14:02:48 2009 From: trev.saunders at gmail.com (Trevor Saunders) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:02:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Concerning Discussion boards on Blackboard In-Reply-To: References: <7933B1D14C3344AAAA4E8EC4DB2E0393@dwrigh6> <6A3B064BCAC74807A550562142A60D6A@DB8D43F1> Message-ID: Hi, I had this problem with internet explorer, but I solved it by simply using firefox. Installing the java access bridge may help, but is much more complicated than installing firefox, so I would strongly recommend going the firefox route. Trev From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Sep 2 14:49:47 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 07:49:47 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone interaction with the computer In-Reply-To: <4FFD2A38CA78423EA4E30887AB59BA1E@thedjdinvasion> References: <4FFD2A38CA78423EA4E30887AB59BA1E@thedjdinvasion> Message-ID: I've tried data piolit and it doesn't appear to work at all. There was a tool bar I usedonce for managing thatkind of stuff but I can't remember what it was I'l have to check the blind phones list. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Dunphy Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:19 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] cell phone interaction with the computer Hi All! Does anyone know of a good package that's accessible with jaws that works with the NV2 from LG that can Allow you to manage your address book using your computer Upload ring tones and also set ringtones for specific callers A software package called Datapilot claims to do this, but I can't see where you can manage what callers get what ringtones. From what I saw from the site, it says you can do this, but on first blush, it doesn't appear like you can. If anyone knows about this or other similar packages, please email here or off list at djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >From David ***** If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio station, and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out the station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're able to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and more! To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at http://www.radio360.us Follow us on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa or add us to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4385 (20090831) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From winy_kwany at yahoo.com Wed Sep 2 17:07:36 2009 From: winy_kwany at yahoo.com (Winy Kwany) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Print files for arrangement, any help? Message-ID: <665419.44054.qm@web62403.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I need print scores of popular pieces such as Widney Husten's "Greatest Love Of All" or "One Moment In time", Maria Carey's "Hero", or songs from Pocahontas' soundtracks such as "Between Two Worlds" or "Color of The Wind". Any other popular pieces--Cristian songs, other pieces, as long as they are quite familiar will be fine. I need them for arrangement purposes. My teacher assigns us to arrange anything that we want into four parts--for some instruments. I decide to choose pieces which sound familiar so I don't need to spend time to learn how it sounds like and can go straight to arrangement process. I will need only the print files--TIF, PDF or any format will be fine. Any help? Please contact me off list. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Any help will be highly apreciated. Thanks a lot. Win From jmatte28 at comcast.net Wed Sep 2 23:55:51 2009 From: jmatte28 at comcast.net (jonathan matte) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:55:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] thought I would try re introducing myself to the list Message-ID: Hi there everyone. I realized it's been a few months since I posted anything to this list and thought I might take a few minutes out to re introduce myself in the hopes that I might be able to make some new friends. My name is Jonathan but most of my friends typically call me Jon. I'm 27 years of age and from Massachusetts a city called Brockton located about 45 minutes south of Boston. I am totally blind and have been since birth. The only sort of usable vision I have is light perception. Just recently I moved in to my first apartment and live in a high rise/ complex for elderly/ disabled individuals, and low income singles/ families. Though I hopefully do not see myself living in this sort of situation for any longer then I absolutely have to it's definitely a huge step for me having moved out of my parents house. I have a wide variety of interests some of which include reading, listening to all types of music, talking online and on the phone, going out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around bookstores and music shops. I'm currently single and do not have any kids though like many people out their I'm definitely on the look out for that special person and now that I'm living on my own I hope that some doorways start to open up for me whether I end up meeting someone in public or online as many folks these days seem to be doing. If anyone out their would like to talk feel free to email me privately off list and I'll definitely make sure that I answer you back. My email address is jmatte28 at comcast.net or you can also IM me through aim. My screen name is tvvault82 Thanks for reading my little blurb and I hope to meet lots of new people. For those seeing my post who may be annoyed with my writing style or the fact that I sometimes update my intro every few months sorry for any aggravation this might cause but since I don't really post I thought it might be a good idea to re post to the site and introduce myself again. Regards Jonathan. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu Sep 3 01:31:09 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:31:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] thought I would try re introducing myself to the list References: Message-ID: <384D02DF662547099F671DB91A3D95CC@Ashley> Hi Jon, Its Ashley and I graduated from Marymount in the spring. You already introduced yourself here. How about staying and joining the conversations some. I have lots of interests too like reading, game shows, many forms of music, fitness, and spiritual growth. I hope you are looking for employment; with employment you can move to a general setting without elderly people. Anyway as you said good first step. Enjoy the list. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "jonathan matte" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: [nabs-l] thought I would try re introducing myself to the list > Hi there everyone. > I realized it's been a few months since I posted anything to this list and > thought I might take a few minutes out to re introduce myself in the hopes > that I might be able to make some new friends. > My name is Jonathan but most of my friends typically call me Jon. > I'm 27 years of age and from Massachusetts a city called Brockton located > about 45 minutes south of Boston. > I am totally blind and have been since birth. > The only sort of usable vision I have is light perception. > Just recently I moved in to my first apartment and live in a high rise/ > complex for elderly/ disabled individuals, and low income singles/ > families. > Though I hopefully do not see myself living in this sort of situation for > any longer then I absolutely have to it's definitely a huge step for me > having moved out of my parents house. > I have a wide variety of interests some of which include reading, > listening to all types of music, talking online and on the phone, going > out to dinner, sometimes to the movies, and browsing around bookstores and > music shops. > I'm currently single and do not have any kids though like many people out > their I'm definitely on the look out for that special person and now that > I'm living on my own I hope that some doorways start to open up for me > whether I end up meeting someone in public or online as many folks these > days seem to be doing. > If anyone out their would like to talk feel free to email me privately off > list and I'll definitely make sure that I answer you back. > My email address is > jmatte28 at comcast.net > or you can also IM me through aim. > My screen name is tvvault82 > Thanks for reading my little blurb and I hope to meet lots of new people. > For those seeing my post who may be annoyed with my writing style or the > fact that I sometimes update my intro every few months sorry for any > aggravation this might cause but since I don't really post I thought it > might be a good idea to re post to the site and introduce myself again. > > Regards Jonathan. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4390 (20090902) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From aurorasunrise at hotmail.com Thu Sep 3 03:35:04 2009 From: aurorasunrise at hotmail.com (Daphne Mitchell) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:35:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Info about Project Hire In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello listers, Sorry for the crosspost. Mississippi State's RRTC will be conducting two sessions of a web-based eight week mentoring/job readiness course. It is targeted towards U.S. highschool seniors/recent grads and/or college seniors/recent grads. The program is free of charge, and there are limited provisions allocated for assisting participants in obtaining internet access if necessary. Please read the attached files for further information. The deadline for applicants is September 11th. Daphne Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Announcement - for College participants Final.doc Type: application/msword Size: 101888 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Announcement - for participants Final.doc Type: application/msword Size: 101888 bytes Desc: not available URL: From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Sep 3 21:12:08 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:12:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD audio downloads In-Reply-To: <6120E8703C4548348F8EC82DFAE49ADC@Dezman> References: <6120E8703C4548348F8EC82DFAE49ADC@Dezman> Message-ID: <2AB8ABD0-6416-447C-BFEF-AD6327CF986D@gmail.com> Keep in mind that the new audioaccess download (different from audioplus download) are not compatible with as many devices. The AudioAccess books are meant to be played with Windows Media or a portable (Microsoft primarily) device with Digital Rights Management. AudioPlus books, on the other hand, will work on the VIctor Stream or BrailleNote with a proper User Authorization Key. I'd contact RFB&D directly if you have further issues. Corbb On Aug 30, 2009, at 10:33 PM, Dezman Jackson wrote: Rachael, What problems are you having. Dezman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rachel Becker" To: Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD audio downloads > Has anyone used the new RFB and D audio plus downloads. I am trying to > download books to a USB drive to read on my BrailleNote but am having > problems. Hope you all are having a good school year. > Rachel > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From jaedpo96 at aol.com Thu Sep 3 23:24:16 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:24:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Hay it's Jason again In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBFB04CA0A758A-27F8-1592D@webmail-d028.sysops.aol.com> I have good news about the graphing calculator. Mrs. Walton my vision teacher told me about a computer program called mathtrax. It is made by NASA and you download it to your computer from the internet. It is a free download. We haven't figured out how to use yet because Mrs. Walton is still trying to figure it out. She told me that it works pretty well. -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Becker To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:31 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] graphing calculator Hi Jason. I'm so glad you joined this list! I didn't use a talking graphing calculator for my math classes. Good luck with everything and I hope you have a great eighth-grade year. Rachel -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Polansky Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:38 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; david.andrews at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] graphing calculator I think I might of sent this message to David Andrews, but I don't think I sent it to the whole nabs list. I typed in the address of when I got the confirmation message, not to the actual list serve. Hi my name is Jason. I am in eighth grade, and I need a graphing calculator that talks for algebra. Could any of you tell me about talking I just joined the list serve about a few days ago, so that's why you haven't gott en any emails from me.graphing calculators. -----Original Message----- From: HAROLD SNIDER To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org Sent: Fri, Aug 28, 2009 10:12 pm Subject: [nabs-l] Price reduced on items for sale From Linda Snider: FOR SALE: New T-Mobile Wing Smart Phone with mobile speak, still in box, never used, asking $150.00 or best offer; New Plextalk PTR2/T1, still in box, never used, asking $450.00 or best offer; Used Braille Sense Plus with current updates, one 16 GB compact flash card, two 2-GB compact flash cards, one 4-GB thumb drive; one 4 GB compact flash card; and one -1 GB compact flash card with carrying case for flash cards, was asking $4,500.00 reduced to $4,000.00. Have original box for shipping to you. Scholar digital talking book player with Daisy, Standard CD and MP3 formats, asking $100.00 or best offer; Nokia 6220 Classic KNFB Reader Mobil with extra battery, travel charger, earphones, USB/phone cable, video cables, connectivity cable, and leather clip on carrying case, asking $1000.00 plus shipping-firm; MSI USB Dongle(bluetooth) asking $10.00; Used slightly-Telex cassette duplicator – 1 master and 3 slaves, asking $50.00. These items belong to my late husband. Please contact me at hlsnider at earthlink.net or call 301 460-4142 to discuss. _________________________________________ ______ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsultants.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 00:59:12 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:59:12 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Talking Scientific Calculator solutions In-Reply-To: <273146.70405.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <273146.70405.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <85ff10070909031759p19d489cmccbee7bd89e298ea@mail.gmail.com> Hi Kayleigh, Thanks so much for sharing these links with the list. I will see that the information gets forwarded to our extended announcement list in my next bulletin. Arielle On 9/1/09, Kayleigh Joiner wrote: > Hello NABS listers, > My name is Kayleigh and I am a high school senior in Texas. I have had a > little bit of experience with a calculator called the Orion TI-83. Here is a > link that compares this calculator along with several other talking > scientific calculators so that you can see which one will work best for you. > The one that I am referring to is in the second table. > http://www.tsbvi.edu/math/talk-sci-calc.htm > > That calculator will only speak the scientific part of it. In order to deal > with the graphing part of math you can download a product called the > Accessible Graphing Calculator (AGC). This is a piece of software that you > use on a computer. You can download it for a 30 day trial and if you like it > you can then purchase a liscense for it. Here is that link: > http://www.tsbvi.edu/math/talk-sci-calc.htm > > This information is from a teacher that is certified in teaching math and > blind/visually impaired students. > > If you have any other questions about other school subjects feel free to > email me off list at: kayleigh281 at yahoo.com > I hope that this information helps. > > Sincerely, > Kayleigh > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 01:12:22 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:12:22 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Tell Us About your State Division Events! Message-ID: <85ff10070909031812l2a76aa86u2b2c0b837a36c8b3@mail.gmail.com> Dear NABS members: As I did at the beginning of August, I will be sending out monthly bulletins on behalf of NABS to update our members and potential members about what NABS is doing and to convey information pertinent to blind students nationally. I send these bulletins to all of the student division listservs on NFBNet as well as to all of the individuals who have registered for NABS through our Website or at our last national convention. In these bulletins I'd like to regularly include announcements about upcoming state division events as well as brief summaries of events that have recently happened, in order to give people an idea of what NABS has been up to during the past month. If your student division has an event coming up in the next month that you'd like our national membership to be aware of, or if you've just had an event and would like to report, please send these updates to me as soon as your event details are planned or as soon as the event you'd like to report on has concluded. I'll be sure to include it in the next month's bulletin. Also, if you discover a new resource that you think would be of interest to blind students on the national level (such as math accessibility software, etc.) please send the info to me or post on the NABS-L mailing list and I'll be sure to spread the word to all of the students who subscribe to the bulletins. The next bulletin will be released on Tuesday, Sept. 8. Thanks for your help with making this new bulletin project successful and helpful to our membership. Best regards, Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dandrews at visi.com Fri Sep 4 02:42:49 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:42:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College Students Message-ID: > > > From > http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/28/access > > > > > > >Textbooks for the Disabled > > > >August 28, 2009 > >The Association of American Publishers and the University of Georgia >this week unveiled an electronic database aimed at making it easier >for blind, dyslexic and otherwise impaired college students to get >specialized textbooks in time for classes. > >The database, called AccessText, is >designed to centralize the process by which electronic versions of >textbooks are requested by colleges and supplied by publishers. >Experts say it will allow disabled students to get their textbooks >more efficiently, help colleges save money and avoid lawsuits, and >protect publishers' copyrights. > >For students whose disabilities prevent them from using traditional >texts, the normally straightforward task of acquiring books for >their courses can be tedious and frustrating. Federal law requires >that colleges and universities provide disabled students equal >access to educational materials, but this is often easier said than >done. College officials have to track down and contact the publisher >of every textbook that each of its disabled students buys and >request an electronic copy. If such a copy exists -- the likelihood >shrinks the older the book and the smaller the publisher -- college >officials still have to convert the file to a format that can be >read by whatever reading aid the student uses. If not, the college >has to wait, sometimes weeks, to obtain permission to scan the book >and create its own electronic version. > >Once a college has an electronic copy, converting to a readable >format can be another complex process, says Sean Keegan, associate >director of assistive technology at Stanford University. Math and >science texts often arrive as scanned pages, and cannot always be >easily read by the character-recognition software the university >uses to turn them into standard electronic files, Keegan says. "That >can take a longer amount of time to process that material internally >and turn it around and give that to the student efficiently," he says. > >Meanwhile, delays in the process can make it impossible for disabled >students to prepare for and participate in classes. "Students need >to have a book in time so they can do the assigned reading and study >for tests and papers," says Gaeir Dietrich, interim director of >high-tech training for the California Community Colleges system. "So >if the book doesn't come until the term has been in session for >three or four weeks, that puts that student very far behind." Some >students have sued colleges over such delays, she says. > >AccessText aims to mitigate these woes by streamlining the request >and delivery process, says Ed McCoyd, executive director for >accessibility affairs at AAP. > >"There's a lot of transactional friction taking place currently," >says McCoyd. "What AccessText is trying to do is take some of that >out of the transaction by having parties agree to streamlined rules up front." > >Having colleges submit requests using the AccessText portal should >eliminate the need for the publishers to require endless paperwork >with each request to protect its copyrights, McCoyd says. Under the >system, the copyright protection agreements can be handled once, >during registration, and the requester's bona fides can be verified >by a log-in. > >Currently, colleges that get tired of waiting for publishers to >process the paperwork and procure an electronic copy of a text >sometimes just scan a text themselves to try to satisfy the needs of >disabled students in a timely fashion, says Dietrich. > >AccessText is also set up to eliminate the need for different >colleges to convert the same text to a readable format once it is >acquired. Currently "numerous schools could be doing the exact same >thing, converting the same text," says Bruce Hildebrand, executive >director for higher education at the publishers' association. Under >the new system, "if one school has already spent the time and the >money to convert a file to a format, they could advise the >AccessText network, which could then make the info available that it >was still available in that format, and that school could share it >with another school" -- thereby sparing those colleges the time and >resources it would have used to convert the file themselves, he says. > >Eight major publishing houses paid a total of just under $1 million >to develop the AccessText network and maintain it through its beta >phase, which will end next July. From then on, it will sustain >itself by billing member colleges between $375 and $500 annually, >depending on size. > >Dietrich notes that community colleges might not benefit from the >AccessText network as much as other institutions, since "we have a >lot more vocational classes and basic-skills classes, and a lot of >those books don't come through those big publishers, they come >through specialized publishers," she says. "It doesn't solve that >part of the problem for us." > >The network includes 92 percent of all college textbook publishers >and is recruiting even more, according to AAP officials. From kevin at kevinlarose.net Fri Sep 4 03:12:17 2009 From: kevin at kevinlarose.net (Kevin LaRose) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:12:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB and D Update Message-ID: I forgot to update the other day that I got my RFB and D account activated, and I am now able to download RFB and D books and play them on my Stream. To those who assisted in this process, I thank you. Kevin LaRose kflarose on Twitter, if you're so inclined I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 14:03:53 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:03:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Grant Opportunities for Youth and Divisions Message-ID: <61246DE4E7804F28815A2F1B318E01D1@Rufus> The United Nations Alliance of Civilizations is launching the second edition of its Youth Solidarity Fund. This programme provides seed funding to outstanding youth projects demonstrating innovative approaches to building cross-cultural understanding. The 2009 edition of the Youth Solidarity Fund offers a total envelope of up to US$300,000. There are two levels of funding available: small grants for community or local-level projects needing funding of up to US$20,000 each and large grants for national or regional-level projects needing funding of up to US$30,000 each. A Youth Selection Committee will identify the best projects under each level of funding. Youth organizations from all over the world are invited to submit project proposals by September 30, 2009, 1:00 PM, New York time. The application guidelines and form are available at www.unaoc.org Do Something Save Our Music Contest (Deadline: October 23) VH1 and Do Something are calling on you to lead the fight for music education in schools. From now until October 16th, take action - tell everyone to "Save Our Music!" Organize an instrument drive. Create viral videos on what music means to you. Run an awareness campaign in your school. For more project ideas check out the "action ideas" section. The top 5 advocates will receive $1,000 for their school music program and Rock Band Video game packages. One grand prize winner gets $2500 in music funding and a Beatles Rock Band game system! Check your email and back here for mini-contests and giveaways throughout the campaign! Submit your projects by 10/23 for a chance to win! Upload photos and videos and you could win even more great prizes! Get started at: SaveOurMusic.org 2010 State Farm® Service-Learning Champion Award (Deadline: December 1) State Farm supports service-learning as a teaching method that enhances the academic achievement of students while engaging in service to the community. Teachers and parents are usually the primary individuals guiding a young person's education. Other adults often play a key role in broadening a youth's formal education through community service-learning activities. State Farm created the Service-Learning Champion Award to acknowledge this non-traditional advocate of service-learning. The State Farm Service-Learning Champion Award recognizes a business leader, community member or public official who has a passion for engaging youth in service-learning. Nominations for this annual award are due Dec.1, 2009. This annual award will be presented to the recipient at the 21st Annual National Service-Learning Conference in March 2010, in San Jose, Calif. Transportation, lodging, and conference registration costs for the award recipient will be provided by State Farm.  http://www.statefarm.com/about/part_spos/topics/nom_slchamp.asp __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4394 (20090904) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Fri Sep 4 18:00:52 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:00:52 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD audio downloads In-Reply-To: <2AB8ABD0-6416-447C-BFEF-AD6327CF986D@gmail.com> References: <6120E8703C4548348F8EC82DFAE49ADC@Dezman> <2AB8ABD0-6416-447C-BFEF-AD6327CF986D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090904180052.GA80562@yumi.bluecherry.net> Corbb, the AudioAccess books use Microsoft PlaysForSure, which is pretty easy to defeat so that you can play them anywhere. That's quite useful as I'm a Mac user, and basically Mac users are out of luck when it comes to RFB&D. RFB&D doesn't support Olearia, and KatiePlayer doesn't actually seem to ... work anymore. I do so wish they'd move to a system like Bookshare uses--include audio listing the name of the subscriber who is getting the book, zip it up with a password, and call it good. Joseph -- How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90%--more than 52,000 children! Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:12:08PM -0400, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > Keep in mind that the new audioaccess download (different from audioplus > download) are not compatible with as many devices. The AudioAccess books > are meant to be played with Windows Media or a portable (Microsoft > primarily) device with Digital Rights Management. > > AudioPlus books, on the other hand, will work on the VIctor Stream or > BrailleNote with a proper User Authorization Key. I'd contact RFB&D > directly if you have further issues. > > Corbb From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 01:29:15 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:29:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Understanding Symbolic Logic textbook In-Reply-To: <85ff10070908311710h70ebc6c8mc7e49d93b94bf5d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <9FC9E5E7C48A4BB4A42DE8EDDE8F61C3@dwrigh6> <20090826154405.GK44583@yumi.bluecherry.net> <090C885BAEDD44F28A0DF6F303E88026@Ashley> <20090827035144.GB46555@yumi.bluecherry.net> <85ff10070908311710h70ebc6c8mc7e49d93b94bf5d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090905012915.GG80562@yumi.bluecherry.net> Arielle, When it's the only option left and the DSO still won't employ paid readers and cannot find volunteers, they are still responsible for failure to provide services that are required by law. I've been told that readers were out of the question when I have asked before. Joseph -- How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90%--more than 52,000 children! Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ On Tue, Sep 01, 2009 at 10:10:08AM +1000, Arielle Silverman wrote: >Hi all, > >Let's not forget that in many situations where accessible materials >cannot be found for whatever reason, paid or volunteer readers can >stand in. They're not perfect, but in my opinion, much better to hire >a reader than to not take a course. Unfortunately many DSO's don't >present readers as an option, perhaps believing that readers are >outdated or no longer necessary. But clearly, if independent access >isn't an option due to technological limitations or other factors >beyond the student's control, readers are an acceptable alternative >and in some cases even better than alternative formats. And, remember >that you can always negotiate a reader deal on your own--even if your >DSO doesn't provide them as a routine accommodation. > >I think it's tempting to assume that using readers makes us more >dependent. If the relationship you have with your reader is an >appropriate supervisor-employee relationship, though, readers can >expand your independence and enable you to tackle more challenging >material in a more timely manner than waiting on an outside entity to >provide alternative format. > >Arielle From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 04:23:10 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 21:23:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH Message-ID: <67E78698B31B445EBC3FF26BCFE814A8@sacomputer> got this from a friend. Sony Partners With WGBH to Deliver Descriptive Video Service for DVDs By : Chris Tribbey Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is the latest studio to join forces with WGBH Media Access Group to deliver select DVDs with Descriptive Video Service (DVS), an optional feature that provides audio narration for visual elements, allowing consumers who are blind or who have impaired vision to "watch" the content. PBS Home Video and Universal Studios Home Entertainment have both released titles that include the feature. "I don't know how large the untapped market may be. We're doing it because it's the right thing to do," said Tracey Garvin, SVP of worldwide marketing for Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "There's so much visually that the impaired can't pick up. It really enriches the experience, and it's certainly worth the additional expense." The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 million people in the country with significant visual impairment. Mary Watkins, outreach director for WGBH's Media Access Group, said WGBH had done descriptive content for VHS, producing more than 200 titles from nearly all the studios. "The gap between the end of the road for the VHS format several years ago, and this announcement by Sony of all major titles going forward including a DVS track, has been painful to an audience that loves movies as much as sighted viewers," she said. "DVS on DVD enables people who are blind or have low vision to enjoy a movie independently, relieves their friends and loved ones of being amateur describers at home, and ensures a better return on Sony's original investment on the service for the theatrical release ... good news all around." The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 million people in the country with significant visual impairment. The first Sony titles to include the feature will be The Taking of Pelham 123 (Nov. 3), The Ugly Truth, Julie & Julia and District 9. Beginning this fall, any theatrical release from Sony including descriptive audio also will have the feature on eventual DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. Listed as an audio option in the languages option of DVDs and Blu-rays, Descriptive Video Service offers narration describing everything from facial expressions and gestures to costume and on-screen text. Garvin said that the transfer of a Descriptive Video Service for disc isn't a difficult task for the studio. She added that Sony is "really proud to be able to do this." Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! Quote by Vicki Moore From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 5 05:27:30 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 00:27:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH References: <67E78698B31B445EBC3FF26BCFE814A8@sacomputer> Message-ID: <001101ca2de9$91aca0c0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, I wonder if that will include talking menus? What's the sense in putting a DVS track on to the DVD if the blind viewer can't access the menu to launch it?Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 11:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH got this from a friend. Sony Partners With WGBH to Deliver Descriptive Video Service for DVDs By : Chris Tribbey Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is the latest studio to join forces with WGBH Media Access Group to deliver select DVDs with Descriptive Video Service (DVS), an optional feature that provides audio narration for visual elements, allowing consumers who are blind or who have impaired vision to "watch" the content. PBS Home Video and Universal Studios Home Entertainment have both released titles that include the feature. "I don't know how large the untapped market may be. We're doing it because it's the right thing to do," said Tracey Garvin, SVP of worldwide marketing for Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "There's so much visually that the impaired can't pick up. It really enriches the experience, and it's certainly worth the additional expense." The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 million people in the country with significant visual impairment. Mary Watkins, outreach director for WGBH's Media Access Group, said WGBH had done descriptive content for VHS, producing more than 200 titles from nearly all the studios. "The gap between the end of the road for the VHS format several years ago, and this announcement by Sony of all major titles going forward including a DVS track, has been painful to an audience that loves movies as much as sighted viewers," she said. "DVS on DVD enables people who are blind or have low vision to enjoy a movie independently, relieves their friends and loved ones of being amateur describers at home, and ensures a better return on Sony's original investment on the service for the theatrical release ... good news all around." The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 million people in the country with significant visual impairment. The first Sony titles to include the feature will be The Taking of Pelham 123 (Nov. 3), The Ugly Truth, Julie & Julia and District 9. Beginning this fall, any theatrical release from Sony including descriptive audio also will have the feature on eventual DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. Listed as an audio option in the languages option of DVDs and Blu-rays, Descriptive Video Service offers narration describing everything from facial expressions and gestures to costume and on-screen text. Garvin said that the transfer of a Descriptive Video Service for disc isn't a difficult task for the studio. She added that Sony is "really proud to be able to do this." Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! Quote by Vicki Moore _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 05:54:55 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 22:54:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] RFB and D Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DB8D8805CEC4124B4C904CC7A641D0F@sacomputer> In my case I got my stream key bu one of my bookss won't play right. I contacted rfb and tey didn't seem to kno what I was talking about. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin LaRose Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 8:12 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] RFB and D Update I forgot to update the other day that I got my RFB and D account activated, and I am now able to download RFB and D books and play them on my Stream. To those who assisted in this process, I thank you. Kevin LaRose kflarose on Twitter, if you're so inclined I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 05:54:55 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 22:54:55 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH In-Reply-To: <001101ca2de9$91aca0c0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <67E78698B31B445EBC3FF26BCFE814A8@sacomputer> <001101ca2de9$91aca0c0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Yeah was wondering that myself. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:28 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH Hello everyone, I wonder if that will include talking menus? What's the sense in putting a DVS track on to the DVD if the blind viewer can't access the menu to launch it?Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 11:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH got this from a friend. Sony Partners With WGBH to Deliver Descriptive Video Service for DVDs By : Chris Tribbey Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is the latest studio to join forces with WGBH Media Access Group to deliver select DVDs with Descriptive Video Service (DVS), an optional feature that provides audio narration for visual elements, allowing consumers who are blind or who have impaired vision to "watch" the content. PBS Home Video and Universal Studios Home Entertainment have both released titles that include the feature. "I don't know how large the untapped market may be. We're doing it because it's the right thing to do," said Tracey Garvin, SVP of worldwide marketing for Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "There's so much visually that the impaired can't pick up. It really enriches the experience, and it's certainly worth the additional expense." The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 million people in the country with significant visual impairment. Mary Watkins, outreach director for WGBH's Media Access Group, said WGBH had done descriptive content for VHS, producing more than 200 titles from nearly all the studios. "The gap between the end of the road for the VHS format several years ago, and this announcement by Sony of all major titles going forward including a DVS track, has been painful to an audience that loves movies as much as sighted viewers," she said. "DVS on DVD enables people who are blind or have low vision to enjoy a movie independently, relieves their friends and loved ones of being amateur describers at home, and ensures a better return on Sony's original investment on the service for the theatrical release ... good news all around." The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 million people in the country with significant visual impairment. The first Sony titles to include the feature will be The Taking of Pelham 123 (Nov. 3), The Ugly Truth, Julie & Julia and District 9. Beginning this fall, any theatrical release from Sony including descriptive audio also will have the feature on eventual DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. Listed as an audio option in the languages option of DVDs and Blu-rays, Descriptive Video Service offers narration describing everything from facial expressions and gestures to costume and on-screen text. Garvin said that the transfer of a Descriptive Video Service for disc isn't a difficult task for the studio. She added that Sony is "really proud to be able to do this." Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! Quote by Vicki Moore _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 06:00:14 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 23:00:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS download site In-Reply-To: <62DB51D798804EE08D666DA748F41600@Gateway> References: <62DB51D798804EE08D666DA748F41600@Gateway> Message-ID: You contct your regional library. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jennifer Aberdeen Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: NABS-L Subject: [nabs-l] NLS download site Does anyone know if there's a way to make requests for certain books to be made available for download, or do I just need to wait and see every week what becomes available? I just looked through the latest list of books, and for the second week in a row, there's nothing good. Jen Jen www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-415-5815 401-644-5607 freespirit328 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 15:37:31 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:37:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH References: <67E78698B31B445EBC3FF26BCFE814A8@sacomputer> Message-ID: <009d01ca2e3e$c8da7310$0a00000a@DHQ5QJF1> I am just glad it is coming back. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 11:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH > got this from a friend. > > > Sony Partners With WGBH to Deliver Descriptive Video Service for DVDs > > By : Chris Tribbey > Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is the latest studio to join forces with > WGBH Media Access Group to deliver select DVDs with Descriptive Video > Service > (DVS), an optional feature that provides audio narration for visual > elements, allowing consumers who are blind or who have impaired vision to > "watch" the > content. > > PBS Home Video and Universal Studios Home Entertainment have both released > titles that include the feature. > > "I don't know how large the untapped market may be. We're doing it because > it's the right thing to do," said Tracey Garvin, SVP of worldwide > marketing > for > Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "There's so much visually that the > impaired can't pick up. It really enriches the experience, and it's > certainly worth > the additional expense." > > The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 > million people in the country with significant visual impairment. > > Mary Watkins, outreach director for WGBH's Media Access Group, said WGBH > had > done descriptive content for VHS, producing more than 200 titles from > nearly > all the studios. > > "The gap between the end of the road for the VHS format several years ago, > and this announcement by Sony of all major titles going forward including > a > DVS > track, has been painful to an audience that loves movies as much as > sighted > viewers," she said. "DVS on DVD enables people who are blind or have low > vision > to enjoy a movie independently, relieves their friends and loved ones of > being amateur describers at home, and ensures a better return on Sony's > original > investment on the service for the theatrical release ... good news all > around." > > The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 > million people in the country with significant visual impairment. > > The first Sony titles to include the feature will be The Taking of Pelham > 123 (Nov. 3), The Ugly Truth, Julie & Julia and District 9. Beginning this > fall, > any theatrical release from Sony including descriptive audio also will > have > the feature on eventual DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. > > Listed as an audio option in the languages option of DVDs and Blu-rays, > Descriptive Video Service offers narration describing everything from > facial > expressions > and gestures to costume and on-screen text. > > Garvin said that the transfer of a Descriptive Video Service for disc > isn't > a difficult task for the studio. She added that Sony is "really proud to > be > able to do this." > > > Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! > Quote by Vicki Moore > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net Sat Sep 5 17:05:36 2009 From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 11:05:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] ear plugs Message-ID: <4F9032105B284D86A6937FED1C2120A1@usore540475a8f> Hello folks. I have a question for you all. Last night I went to a night club. I wor ear plugs because, I am blind. I do not want to be deaf and blind. How many of you ware ear plugs when you go to a night club or concert for this reason? Also, do you carry a folding, telescopic, or a straight cane with you. I am going to carry a telescopic cane with me because when I dance I don't know what to do sometimes with my straight cane. I will write to you all later. From corbbo at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 17:50:58 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:50:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH In-Reply-To: <009d01ca2e3e$c8da7310$0a00000a@DHQ5QJF1> References: <67E78698B31B445EBC3FF26BCFE814A8@sacomputer> <009d01ca2e3e$c8da7310$0a00000a@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <2D6CF3B6-FB40-41F7-A38A-EABAC84ABA78@gmail.com> One step at a time, folks. Let's be happy that the feature is more accessible than before, and we'll work with--and not against--the studios to make the menus accessible. Corbb P.S. How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90 percent! To help, please consider purchasing a Louis Braille Commemorative Silver Dollar from the U.S. Mint: http://www.braille.org On Sep 5, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Rania wrote: I am just glad it is coming back. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 11:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH > got this from a friend. > > > Sony Partners With WGBH to Deliver Descriptive Video Service for DVDs > > By : Chris Tribbey > Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is the latest studio to join forces > with > WGBH Media Access Group to deliver select DVDs with Descriptive Video > Service > (DVS), an optional feature that provides audio narration for visual > elements, allowing consumers who are blind or who have impaired > vision to > "watch" the > content. > > PBS Home Video and Universal Studios Home Entertainment have both > released > titles that include the feature. > > "I don't know how large the untapped market may be. We're doing it > because > it's the right thing to do," said Tracey Garvin, SVP of worldwide > marketing > for > Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "There's so much visually that the > impaired can't pick up. It really enriches the experience, and it's > certainly worth > the additional expense." > > The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 > million people in the country with significant visual impairment. > > Mary Watkins, outreach director for WGBH's Media Access Group, said > WGBH had > done descriptive content for VHS, producing more than 200 titles > from nearly > all the studios. > > "The gap between the end of the road for the VHS format several > years ago, > and this announcement by Sony of all major titles going forward > including a > DVS > track, has been painful to an audience that loves movies as much as > sighted > viewers," she said. "DVS on DVD enables people who are blind or have > low > vision > to enjoy a movie independently, relieves their friends and loved > ones of > being amateur describers at home, and ensures a better return on > Sony's > original > investment on the service for the theatrical release ... good news all > around." > > The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 > million people in the country with significant visual impairment. > > The first Sony titles to include the feature will be The Taking of > Pelham > 123 (Nov. 3), The Ugly Truth, Julie & Julia and District 9. > Beginning this > fall, > any theatrical release from Sony including descriptive audio also > will have > the feature on eventual DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. > > Listed as an audio option in the languages option of DVDs and Blu- > rays, > Descriptive Video Service offers narration describing everything > from facial > expressions > and gestures to costume and on-screen text. > > Garvin said that the transfer of a Descriptive Video Service for > disc isn't > a difficult task for the studio. She added that Sony is "really > proud to be > able to do this." > > > Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! > Quote by Vicki Moore > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 18:21:56 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 14:21:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] ear plugs In-Reply-To: <4F9032105B284D86A6937FED1C2120A1@usore540475a8f> References: <4F9032105B284D86A6937FED1C2120A1@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909051121g4f6b2d25vfc946545d4e46d2b@mail.gmail.com> I have the same reasoning you do about earplugs. I carry a folding cane with me. I like to wear a carrying case on my belt when I do this so that I can fold it up and carry it wherever. I wish I could go to clubs, but I can't because I don't have a way to get there. Beth On 9/5/09, Kevin Wassmer wrote: > Hello folks. I have a question for you all. Last night I went to a night > club. I wor ear plugs because, I am blind. I do not want to be deaf and > blind. How many of you ware ear plugs when you go to a night club or concert > for this reason? Also, do you carry a folding, telescopic, or a straight > cane with you. I am going to carry a telescopic cane with me because when I > dance I don't know what to do sometimes with my straight cane. I will write > to you all later. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 5 18:41:09 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 13:41:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH References: <67E78698B31B445EBC3FF26BCFE814A8@sacomputer><009d01ca2e3e$c8da7310$0a00000a@DHQ5QJF1> <2D6CF3B6-FB40-41F7-A38A-EABAC84ABA78@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002701ca2e58$705f6460$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, But to use that accessible feature you must be able to launch it. Accessible menus should be a part of the roll-out. There is a limit to this "one step at a time" attitude and this is once such instance. If funds are being used to add features to DVDs we'll not be able to use independently the money would be better spent investing in Braille Literacy awareness rather than adding features to DVDS we can't use without sighted assistance. I liken this to putting cheese down a rat hole! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH One step at a time, folks. Let's be happy that the feature is more accessible than before, and we'll work with--and not against--the studios to make the menus accessible. Corbb P.S. How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90 percent! To help, please consider purchasing a Louis Braille Commemorative Silver Dollar from the U.S. Mint: http://www.braille.org On Sep 5, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Rania wrote: I am just glad it is coming back. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 11:23 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Sony Partners With WGBH > got this from a friend. > > > Sony Partners With WGBH to Deliver Descriptive Video Service for DVDs > > By : Chris Tribbey > Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is the latest studio to join forces > with > WGBH Media Access Group to deliver select DVDs with Descriptive Video > Service > (DVS), an optional feature that provides audio narration for visual > elements, allowing consumers who are blind or who have impaired > vision to > "watch" the > content. > > PBS Home Video and Universal Studios Home Entertainment have both > released > titles that include the feature. > > "I don't know how large the untapped market may be. We're doing it > because > it's the right thing to do," said Tracey Garvin, SVP of worldwide > marketing > for > Sony Pictures Home Entertainment. "There's so much visually that the > impaired can't pick up. It really enriches the experience, and it's > certainly worth > the additional expense." > > The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 > million people in the country with significant visual impairment. > > Mary Watkins, outreach director for WGBH's Media Access Group, said > WGBH had > done descriptive content for VHS, producing more than 200 titles > from nearly > all the studios. > > "The gap between the end of the road for the VHS format several > years ago, > and this announcement by Sony of all major titles going forward > including a > DVS > track, has been painful to an audience that loves movies as much as > sighted > viewers," she said. "DVS on DVD enables people who are blind or have > low > vision > to enjoy a movie independently, relieves their friends and loved > ones of > being amateur describers at home, and ensures a better return on > Sony's > original > investment on the service for the theatrical release ... good news all > around." > > The American Foundation for the Blind estimates there are more than 20 > million people in the country with significant visual impairment. > > The first Sony titles to include the feature will be The Taking of > Pelham > 123 (Nov. 3), The Ugly Truth, Julie & Julia and District 9. > Beginning this > fall, > any theatrical release from Sony including descriptive audio also > will have > the feature on eventual DVD and Blu-ray Disc releases. > > Listed as an audio option in the languages option of DVDs and Blu- > rays, > Descriptive Video Service offers narration describing everything > from facial > expressions > and gestures to costume and on-screen text. > > Garvin said that the transfer of a Descriptive Video Service for > disc isn't > a difficult task for the studio. She added that Sony is "really > proud to be > able to do this." > > > Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! > Quote by Vicki Moore > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From freespirit328 at gmail.com Sat Sep 5 19:17:10 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 15:17:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS download site References: <62DB51D798804EE08D666DA748F41600@Gateway> Message-ID: <511DAC773675499FB317EB85629DC0B7@Gateway> OK, I was just hoping maybe there was an email address or something to send requests. No biggy; even though I don't like calling them, I will. Jen www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-415-5815 401-644-5607 freespirit328 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS download site > You contct your regional library. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jennifer Aberdeen > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:58 PM > To: NABS-L > Subject: [nabs-l] NLS download site > > Does anyone know if there's a way to make requests for certain books to be > made available for download, or do I just need to wait and see every week > what becomes available? > > I just looked through the latest list of books, and for the second week in > a > row, there's nothing good. > > Jen > > Jen > > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen > PO Box 1184 > Woonsocket, RI 02895 > 401-415-5815 > 401-644-5607 > freespirit328 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From chriswright11 at verizon.net Sun Sep 6 19:33:46 2009 From: chriswright11 at verizon.net (Christopher Wright) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 15:33:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] assistance needed Message-ID: <002301ca2f28$fb7003e0$2f01a8c0@myhome.westell.com> Hi all, This announcement is for those of us who go to church. In collaboration with Joni and Friends, Judy Redlich, one of the presenters on ACB Radio Mainstream, will be writing a chapter for a manual to help pastors and teachers understand how to assist blind persons most effectively. She is seeking insights from others who are blind in hopes that the tips shared might help blind persons be accepted, welcomed, and eventually integrated into the congregations they attend. All answers to a prepared questionnaire will be kept confidential, and no last names used. For a copy of the questionnaire, email me at chrisw1 at bestweb.net and I'll send it to you. She needs all responses by September 15. Thanks in advance. Christopher Wright, Production Assistant for the Christian Connection and Cry Justice, [heard on ACB Radio Mainstream. See the schedule for more information.] From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 01:09:02 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 21:09:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews Message-ID: Hello, Sorry for the cross-post. Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac Mate are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an mPower I want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new device the damn thing had better do what I need it to. KeySoft is not all that amusing for me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has more to do with personal preference. I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three products, but I would be interested in another round of personal reviews from anyone who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the units. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4401 (20090906) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 03:16:41 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:16:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4383d01d0909062016u5efc1039r4ed48d46b409e7a0@mail.gmail.com> I would not always recommend the BrailleNote if you want something that doesn't break every year. I hate having to ship it out to NEw York now instead of California;. Also now they do all the repair work in either Canada or New Zealand. Pretty stupid to me honestly. I've never used anything else though. I think the PacMate is a bit frustrating with the whizz wheels and all that. The blinking cursor seemed a bit weird to me. I've never seen a Braille Sense. So I think I'd stick with my BrailleNote even though I still have problems with it breaking because the positives outweigh the negatives. Beth On 9/6/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello, > > Sorry for the cross-post. > > Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac Mate > are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an mPower I > want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new device the damn > thing had better do what I need it to. KeySoft is not all that amusing for > me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has more to do with personal > preference. > > I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three products, > but I would be interested in another round of personal reviews from anyone > who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the units. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4401 (20090906) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 13:49:50 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 09:49:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: <004001ca2f62$960bd9e0$c2238da0$@com> Message-ID: <240FAB633620436DA6D147F29152778F@Rufus> Dean, Good point. I should have included what I was looking for. I'm looking for greater compatibility with mainstream devices. I agree with Gary that the Braille quality on the BrailleNote is pleasantly sharp, but I may consider trading that for quicker connectivity and conversion between file formats. Braille is, by the way, my main reason for wanting to evaluate new units. I like the benefits of the Icon and such products, but I like a unit with a built-in Braille display as opposed to the Pac Mate which at one point was selling as a detached piece. Is that still the case? I don't know how much I need third-party applications. The BrailleNote, unless I'm mistaken, does not offer much support for such collaboration, so I've never had the opportunity to really delve into what is available for Windows operating systems, or Linux for that matter. On that note, I would be willing to learn Linux if anyone has experience with the Elba, even if it does appear to be on the heavy side of the scale compared to the weight of the Braille Sense and BrailleNote. In brief, I bought a smaller laptop for greater portability, but for presentations I want a good Braille display system that can talk with the laptop without much fuss or additional file conversion steps. I could invest in a small Braille display, but there are trips when I want to be able to not have to carry two pieces of equipment when only one could suffice. At any rate, I really appreciate people's feedback. Like I said, the prices on these things are ridiculous. The price to fix them when they bust is equally disturbing, so I want to make sure my money is being well-spent. Your advice is good because it seems the only thing we can do without the opportunity to check into a store and play with one. Maybe Apple will figure out Braille display technology and give the current players a run for their money. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dean Martineau Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:26 PM To: 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List' Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Notetaker Reviews In this sort of thing, the first question is, what do you want to do with your device? Pac Mate runs Windows Mobile6, or maybe 6.1, so you can install third-party software on it, but it is less simple to use than the Braille Note. The more you can delineate about your intended use for the product, the better able you will be to elicit comparisons. If you want a package that does what it does out of the box but is not expandable, then Braille Note or Braille Sense would fit. Icon is somewhat expandable if you want to delve into Linux. Also, for the same reason that sighted people aren't buying PDA's much any more, many of us do many of the tasks formerly done on notetakers on powerful cell phones that are smaller and cheaper. Dean -----Original Message----- From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Mann Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:13 PM To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Notetaker Reviews Another note taker is the Icon from Levelstar. I don't know that much about that notetaker, but I do know a few pros of it. 1. It has a hard drive instead of flash memory, so it can store a lot of information. 2. It can play the new digital books from NLS. 3. It runs Linux, which is a really stable operating system. On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello, > > Sorry for the cross-post. > > Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac > Mate are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an > mPower I want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new > device the damn thing had better do what I need it to. KeySoft is not > all that amusing for me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has > more to do with personal preference. > > I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three > products, but I would be interested in another round of personal > reviews from anyone who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the > units. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4401 (20090906) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nfbcs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/tiger0581 %40earthlink .net _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/dean%40to pdotenterpri ses.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4401 (20090906) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nfbcs mailing list nfbcs at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jsorozco% 40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4402 (20090907) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4402 (20090907) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jaedpo96 at aol.com Mon Sep 7 13:51:09 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:51:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0909062016u5efc1039r4ed48d46b409e7a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0909062016u5efc1039r4ed48d46b409e7a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBFDD9639EDFD8-2EFC-1957F@webmail-d014.sysops.aol.com> Hi guys it's Jason from Maryland. I used a braille light, and I didn't like it because it wasn't very user friendly, and we kept having to sind it to Florida. In sixth the school system got 2 braille notes incsase one of them broke. The first one I had had to get sent in because it wasn't charging and had to get a new battery. I have used the other one for about six months now and it is working fine. I don't knpow much about the packmate, but I think since it's made by the same company as the braille light, that it is probably hard to use as well. I really like my braille note because it is very easy to use and the menus make it easiy to do what you need to do. -----Original Message----- From: Beth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 11:16 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews I would not always recommend the BrailleNote if you want something that doesn't break every year. I hate having to ship it out to NEw York now instead of California;. Also now they do all the repair work in either Canada or New Zealand. Pretty stupid to me honestly. I've never used anything else though. I think the PacMate is a bit frustrating with the whizz wheels and all that. The blinking cursor seemed a bit weird to me. I've never seen a Braille Sense. So I think I'd stick with my BrailleNote even though I still have problems with it breaking because the positives outweigh the negatives. Beth On 9/6/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello, > > Sorry for the cross-post. > > Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac Mate > are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an mPower I > want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new device the damn > thing had better do what I need it to. KeySoft is not all that amusing for > me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has more to do with personal > preference. > > I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three products, > but I would be interested in another round of personal reviews from anyone > who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the units. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4401 (20090906) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 14:31:51 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:31:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] braille note In-Reply-To: <8CBFDD9639EDFD8-2EFC-1957F@webmail-d014.sysops.aol.com> References: <4383d01d0909062016u5efc1039r4ed48d46b409e7a0@mail.gmail.com> <8CBFDD9639EDFD8-2EFC-1957F@webmail-d014.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909070731q55eb6c4dt1bf7ecf756813427@mail.gmail.com> Hey, I'm all about that. \Beth On 9/7/09, Polansky wrote: > Hi guys it's Jason from Maryland. I used a braille light, and I didn't > like it because it wasn't very user friendly, and we kept having to > sind it to Florida. In sixth the school system got 2 braille notes > incsase one of them broke. The first one I had had to get sent in > because it wasn't charging and had to get a new battery. I have used > the other one for about six months now and it is working fine. I don't > knpow much about the packmate, but I think since it's made by the same > company as the braille light, that it is probably hard to use as well. > I really like my braille note because it is very easy to use and the > menus make it easiy to do what you need to do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Beth > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2009 11:16 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews > > I would not always recommend the BrailleNote if you want something > that doesn't break every year. I hate having to ship it out to NEw > York now instead of California;. Also now they do all the repair work > in either Canada or New Zealand. Pretty stupid to me honestly. I've > never used anything else though. I think the PacMate is a bit > frustrating with the whizz wheels and all that. The blinking cursor > seemed a bit weird to me. I've never seen a Braille Sense. So I > think I'd stick with my BrailleNote even though I still have problems > with it breaking because the positives outweigh the negatives. > Beth > > On 9/6/09, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Sorry for the cross-post. >> >> Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac > Mate >> are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an > mPower I >> want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new device the > damn >> thing had better do what I need it to. KeySoft is not all that > amusing for >> me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has more to do with > personal >> preference. >> >> I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three > products, >> but I would be interested in another round of personal reviews from > anyone >> who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the units. >> >> Thanks in advance for any assistance. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >> crowd."--Max Lucado >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature >> database 4401 (20090906) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From kevin at kevinlarose.net Mon Sep 7 15:12:21 2009 From: kevin at kevinlarose.net (Kevin LaRose) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 08:12:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Yet another RFB and D Query Message-ID: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> I'm having yet another issue, and I thought I'd ask the question here before going to bother the RFB and D support staff tomorrow. Like I think I said in a message a few days ago, all my download issues have been resolved. I can now download a book, put it on my Stream, and the user key processes correctly. But I am now having a problem once all that is done. When I try and read, the Stream says "book error: 7", and that's the end of that. The Stream manual tells me this error indicates a problem with the MPEG file. Has anyone else had this issue with the Stream, and if so were you able to solve it? Once again, thanks for any info. Kevin LaRose kflarose on Twitter, if you're so inclined I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ From davidb521 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 17:05:23 2009 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David Bouchard) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 11:05:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Proofreading Documents in Duxbury Message-ID: <4aa52f3e.27015a0a.30bc.fffffc8c@mx.google.com> Hi. I am running Duxbury 10.7 on my computer, and I have a PAC Mate with a 40-35ll Braille display. I would like to be able to proofread documents that I translate/create with DBT in order to ensure that the correct formatting is being applied. When looking at the documents with Greade 2 Braille switched off, I don't really see the correct formatting, and sometimes I see something like graphic 572 or graphic 425. Does anyone have any suggestions on proofreading and editing these documents using Braille without having to transfer them to the PAC Mate, or emboss them? Thanks, David From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 16:48:04 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 12:48:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: <240FAB633620436DA6D147F29152778F@Rufus> References: <240FAB633620436DA6D147F29152778F@Rufus> Message-ID: <002826D2405E4B5CA30495B0E429C7CC@Jessica> Joe, Yes FS either sells the PacMate Braille Display separately or with the PacMate. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" Cc: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews > Dean, > > Good point. I should have included what I was looking for. > > I'm looking for greater compatibility with mainstream devices. I agree > with > Gary that the Braille quality on the BrailleNote is pleasantly sharp, but > I > may consider trading that for quicker connectivity and conversion between > file formats. Braille is, by the way, my main reason for wanting to > evaluate new units. I like the benefits of the Icon and such products, > but > I like a unit with a built-in Braille display as opposed to the Pac Mate > which at one point was selling as a detached piece. Is that still the > case? > > I don't know how much I need third-party applications. The BrailleNote, > unless I'm mistaken, does not offer much support for such collaboration, > so > I've never had the opportunity to really delve into what is available for > Windows operating systems, or Linux for that matter. > > On that note, I would be willing to learn Linux if anyone has experience > with the Elba, even if it does appear to be on the heavy side of the scale > compared to the weight of the Braille Sense and BrailleNote. > > In brief, I bought a smaller laptop for greater portability, but for > presentations I want a good Braille display system that can talk with the > laptop without much fuss or additional file conversion steps. I could > invest in a small Braille display, but there are trips when I want to be > able to not have to carry two pieces of equipment when only one could > suffice. > > At any rate, I really appreciate people's feedback. Like I said, the > prices > on these things are ridiculous. The price to fix them when they bust is > equally disturbing, so I want to make sure my money is being well-spent. > Your advice is good because it seems the only thing we can do without the > opportunity to check into a store and play with one. Maybe Apple will > figure out Braille display technology and give the current players a run > for > their money. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dean Martineau > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:26 PM > To: 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Notetaker Reviews > > In this sort of thing, the first question is, what do you want > to do with your device? Pac Mate runs Windows Mobile6, or > maybe 6.1, so you can install third-party software on it, but > it is less simple to use than the Braille Note. The more you > can delineate about your intended use for the product, the > better able you will be to elicit comparisons. If you want a > package that does what it does out of the box but is not > expandable, then Braille Note or Braille Sense would fit. Icon > is somewhat expandable if you want to delve into Linux. Also, > for the same reason that sighted people aren't buying PDA's > much any more, many of us do many of the tasks formerly done on > notetakers on powerful cell phones that are smaller and cheaper. > > Dean > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Mann > Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:13 PM > To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Notetaker Reviews > > Another note taker is the Icon from Levelstar. I don't know > that much about that notetaker, but I do know a few pros of it. > 1. It has a hard drive instead of flash memory, so it can > store a lot of information. > 2. It can play the new digital books from NLS. > 3. It runs Linux, which is a really stable operating system. > > On Sep 6, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Sorry for the cross-post. >> >> Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac >> Mate are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an >> mPower I want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new >> device the damn thing had better do what I need it to. > KeySoft is not >> all that amusing for me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has >> more to do with personal preference. >> >> I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three >> products, but I would be interested in another round of personal >> reviews from anyone who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the >> units. >> >> Thanks in advance for any assistance. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >> crowd."--Max Lucado >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4401 (20090906) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nfbcs mailing list >> nfbcs at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nfbcs: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/tiger0581 > %40earthlink > .net > > > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nfbcs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/dean%40to > pdotenterpri > ses.com > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of > virus signature database 4401 (20090906) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nfbcs mailing list > nfbcs at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nfbcs: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jsorozco% > 40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4402 (20090907) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4402 (20090907) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 17:22:04 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:22:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Yet another RFB and D Query In-Reply-To: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> References: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909071022o438afc47v69a76b3277e5bd9@mail.gmail.com> I usually redownload the book and start theprocess over again. It sucks,but that's what I usually do. I've had a book error or end of book issues so I just redownload the book so I can read it. Beth On 9/7/09, Kevin LaRose wrote: > I'm having yet another issue, and I thought I'd ask the question here before > going to bother the RFB and D support staff tomorrow. Like I think I said in > a message a few days ago, all my download issues have been resolved. I can > now download a book, put it on my Stream, and the user key processes > correctly. But I am now having a problem once all that is done. When I try > and read, the Stream says "book error: 7", and that's the end of that. The > Stream manual tells me this error indicates a problem with the MPEG file. > Has anyone else had this issue with the Stream, and if so were you able to > solve it? Once again, thanks for any info. > Kevin LaRose > > kflarose on Twitter, if you're so inclined > > > I'm protected by SpamBrave > http://www.spambrave.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From kevin at kevinlarose.net Mon Sep 7 17:47:43 2009 From: kevin at kevinlarose.net (Kevin LaRose) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 10:47:43 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Yet another RFB and D Query References: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> <4383d01d0909071022o438afc47v69a76b3277e5bd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've tried that, several times, to no avail. I've even tried transferring via the Humanware companion and copying manually on the SD card, with the same negative result. I'd think it was my Stream, but that is working great otherwise. So who knows? KL I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 19:10:16 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:10:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Yet another RFB and D Query In-Reply-To: References: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> <4383d01d0909071022o438afc47v69a76b3277e5bd9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909071210u594e8b1ex62e78b7ccf98e464@mail.gmail.com> Hmmmmm. I'm doing ym best to help. But I'm afraid RFB and D might have to step in. If anyone else knows why this problem is persisting, go aheadand write. Beth On 9/7/09, Kevin LaRose wrote: > I've tried that, several times, to no avail. I've even tried transferring > via the Humanware companion and copying manually on the SD card, with the > same negative result. I'd think it was my Stream, but that is working great > otherwise. So who knows? > KL > > > I'm protected by SpamBrave > http://www.spambrave.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 19:28:40 2009 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:28:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6975E645A7A9476A9F85CEBBE5EFAB23@VALUED04C3B21F> Hi Joe, Let me preface this by saying that I know absolutely nothing about the BrailleSense. Having used both a Braille Note and PacMAte, I prefer the PacMate by far. The Braille display is a separate piece, however it is so seamlessly integrated into the unit, that had I not been told this, I would have never noticed. PacMate is larger than either of the other two, but no larger than a small laptop. I like PacMate because: The OS is windows mobile and very familiar if you have used a phone or pda that runs Windows Mobile. If you use a qwerty keyboard and are a JAWS user, many of the commands will be very familiar. You can open and edit Excell files. (you may be able to do this with the newest version of Keysoft, I don't know) You get a 40 cell Braille display. As has been mentioned, you can install many third party applications. I have had the PacMate for a year and have found it to be stable. The wheel for navigation is not my thing, but you don't have to use it. If you want to check it out before you make a purchase, I could bring it to Sport one night. Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you. All the best, Sean From dlawless86 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 21:37:46 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:37:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: <6975E645A7A9476A9F85CEBBE5EFAB23@VALUED04C3B21F> References: <6975E645A7A9476A9F85CEBBE5EFAB23@VALUED04C3B21F> Message-ID: <423e6e460909071437n2f99adecy664ff8f54fc982f8@mail.gmail.com> Hi Joe, The BrailleNote is not always my favorite note taker to use simply because it does not use Windows Mobile. With Keysoft you have to convert your files and it takes time which could be better spent elsewhere. Also HumanWare has not always acted on the overwhelming concerns of it's clients and as a result their upgrades are not always an improvement on the product. GW Micro has awesome tech support and they will either stay on the phone with you until the issue gets fixed or will quickly fix it once it's been shipped to them. You can set the deefault file format as MS Word which makes file transfer quick and painless. Freedom Scientific's tech support isn't always the best but they do run a Windows Mobile product that seems to work well. The Pac Mate has come a long way since it was created and FS seems to listen to their customers' concerns and used them to improve the product. What's nice about the Pac Mate is that you can install a lot of third party software and use the JAWS commands that we all know and love. sorry if this is a bit rambly, but I hope this helps! Domonique On 9/7/09, Sean Whalen wrote: > Hi Joe, > > Let me preface this by saying that I know absolutely nothing about the > BrailleSense. Having used both a Braille Note and PacMAte, I prefer the > PacMate by far. The Braille display is a separate piece, however it is so > seamlessly integrated into the unit, that had I not been told this, I would > have never noticed. PacMate is larger than either of the other two, but no > larger than a small laptop. > > I like PacMate because: > > The OS is windows mobile and very familiar if you have used a phone or pda > that runs Windows Mobile. > > If you use a qwerty keyboard and are a JAWS user, many of the commands will > be very familiar. > > You can open and edit Excell files. (you may be able to do this with the > newest version of Keysoft, I don't know) > > You get a 40 cell Braille display. > > As has been mentioned, you can install many third party applications. > > I have had the PacMate for a year and have found it to be stable. The wheel > for navigation is not my thing, but you don't have to use it. > > If you want to check it out before you make a purchase, I could bring it to > Sport one night. > > Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you. > > All the best, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Mon Sep 7 21:41:59 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:41:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] RFBD audio downloads In-Reply-To: <20090904180052.GA80562@yumi.bluecherry.net> References: <6120E8703C4548348F8EC82DFAE49ADC@Dezman> <2AB8ABD0-6416-447C-BFEF-AD6327CF986D@gmail.com> <20090904180052.GA80562@yumi.bluecherry.net> Message-ID: <423e6e460909071441k5189cd3cg30fa9632d21fcb12@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Do you have to get the copyright form directly from RFBD or can you get it from their website? I've been trying to download books from the website and it is telling me that I need to sign a copyright form. Thanks, Domonique On 9/4/09, T. Joseph Carter wrote: > Corbb, the AudioAccess books use Microsoft PlaysForSure, which is > pretty easy to defeat so that you can play them anywhere. That's > quite useful as I'm a Mac user, and basically Mac users are out of > luck when it comes to RFB&D. RFB&D doesn't support Olearia, and > KatiePlayer doesn't actually seem to ... work anymore. > > I do so wish they'd move to a system like Bookshare uses--include > audio listing the name of the subscriber who is getting the book, zip > it up with a password, and call it good. > > Joseph > > -- > How many children in America are not taught how to read? > If they are blind, the answer is 90%--more than 52,000 children! > Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ > > > On Thu, Sep 03, 2009 at 05:12:08PM -0400, Corbb O'Connor wrote: >> Keep in mind that the new audioaccess download (different from audioplus >> download) are not compatible with as many devices. The AudioAccess books >> are meant to be played with Windows Media or a portable (Microsoft >> primarily) device with Digital Rights Management. >> >> AudioPlus books, on the other hand, will work on the VIctor Stream or >> BrailleNote with a proper User Authorization Key. I'd contact RFB&D >> directly if you have further issues. >> >> Corbb > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Mon Sep 7 21:51:33 2009 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 17:51:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Yet another RFB and D Query In-Reply-To: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> References: <6CA2CAAEDDA34883B97E5F6596D2475D@acer6e40e97492> Message-ID: Hi Kevin, I encountered this same problem just the other day as well. I honestly think that RFBD has made there downloads a bit complicated especially when you compare them to the NLS download site. If you want to fix this error, first make sure that you have unzipped all the files that were downloaded to your computer. Next, make sure that all of these files are all in one folder when you transfer them to your Victor Stream. I noticed that I received this error when I kept the files in the original folders that were downloaded from the RFBD site. However, once I put all of them in one huge folder for each disc of my book, the error message was no longer present and I was able to listen to my book without any additional problems. If you do the same, hopefully you will be able to enjoy the benefits of reading RFBD books on your Victor Stream. Elizabeth > From: kevin at kevinlarose.net > To: nabs at acb.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 08:12:21 -0700 > Subject: [nabs-l] Yet another RFB and D Query > > I'm having yet another issue, and I thought I'd ask the question here before > going to bother the RFB and D support staff tomorrow. Like I think I said in > a message a few days ago, all my download issues have been resolved. I can > now download a book, put it on my Stream, and the user key processes > correctly. But I am now having a problem once all that is done. When I try > and read, the Stream says "book error: 7", and that's the end of that. The > Stream manual tells me this error indicates a problem with the MPEG file. > Has anyone else had this issue with the Stream, and if so were you able to > solve it? Once again, thanks for any info. > Kevin LaRose > > kflarose on Twitter, if you're so inclined > > > I'm protected by SpamBrave > http://www.spambrave.com/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Sep 8 14:28:51 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:28:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: <6975E645A7A9476A9F85CEBBE5EFAB23@VALUED04C3B21F> References: <6975E645A7A9476A9F85CEBBE5EFAB23@VALUED04C3B21F> Message-ID: <003501ca3090$b1bb5ab0$15321010$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Hi, I just bought a Pac mate, but not before I did a lot of trials with the Braille note and Pac mate. I have heard good things about the Braille Sense, but haven't used one myself. Here is my comparison of the Braille Note versus Pac Mate. Note that I am using the Pac Mate with a Braille keyboard. 1. Until I made this purchase, I was using a Braille Lite 40, a much simpler model. With this in mind, I found the Braille Note much easier to learn and use initially. The menu system of the Pac mate can be more daunting at first, though as mentioned before it is almost identical to a Windows PC menu system. 2. It is easier to work with mainstream programs on the Pac mate, as mentioned before. It is possible to synchronize e-mails, contacts, calendar etc. on the ac Mate directly from your PC. This might be available for the Braille Note but I'm not sure. 3. The detachable Braille display on the Pac mate is wonderful; I have never used a Braille display with JAWS but it sounds really neat. 4. I have heard the Braille note has better support for additional languages. I am still not sure if this is the case. 5. The Pac Mate uses JAWS (a nicer sounding voice) than the Braille Note. Like my next comment, this is definitely not something that should keep you from buying it. 6. The Pac mate keyboard has a much different feel to it than the Braille Note. I first thought the keyboard on the Pac Mate felt spongy and that I'd be more likely to make errors on it than on the Braille Note. This initial discomfort is surmountable, but it takes some getting used to. 7. The Braille Note has a built-in FM radio which is fun. The Pac mate only has Windows Media Player. 8. The Braille Note comes with built-in wireless Internet capability but you have to buy a separate wireless card to use with the Pac Mate. 9. Both I think can have GPS capability at an extra cost. 10. Lastly, the Pac Mate opens a wider variety of file types including .rtf, .docx. .doc, etc. whereas I don't think the Braille Note does. I hope this all helps, and best of luck with your decision. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:29 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews Hi Joe, Let me preface this by saying that I know absolutely nothing about the BrailleSense. Having used both a Braille Note and PacMAte, I prefer the PacMate by far. The Braille display is a separate piece, however it is so seamlessly integrated into the unit, that had I not been told this, I would have never noticed. PacMate is larger than either of the other two, but no larger than a small laptop. I like PacMate because: The OS is windows mobile and very familiar if you have used a phone or pda that runs Windows Mobile. If you use a qwerty keyboard and are a JAWS user, many of the commands will be very familiar. You can open and edit Excell files. (you may be able to do this with the newest version of Keysoft, I don't know) You get a 40 cell Braille display. As has been mentioned, you can install many third party applications. I have had the PacMate for a year and have found it to be stable. The wheel for navigation is not my thing, but you don't have to use it. If you want to check it out before you make a purchase, I could bring it to Sport one night. Let me know if there is anything else I can tell you. All the best, Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Sep 8 14:35:03 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:35:03 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0909062016u5efc1039r4ed48d46b409e7a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0909062016u5efc1039r4ed48d46b409e7a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003601ca3091$8dbf5c00$a93e1400$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> The cursor settings can be changed to avoid the blinking. I find that weird too but I'm glad it can be changed unlike the old Braille lites. It would be nice if each vendor could do repairs rather than shipping a unit anywhere outside your own city, let alone state/province or country. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:17 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Notetaker Reviews I would not always recommend the BrailleNote if you want something that doesn't break every year. I hate having to ship it out to NEw York now instead of California;. Also now they do all the repair work in either Canada or New Zealand. Pretty stupid to me honestly. I've never used anything else though. I think the PacMate is a bit frustrating with the whizz wheels and all that. The blinking cursor seemed a bit weird to me. I've never seen a Braille Sense. So I think I'd stick with my BrailleNote even though I still have problems with it breaking because the positives outweigh the negatives. Beth On 9/6/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello, > > Sorry for the cross-post. > > Is it correct that the Braille Sense Plus, BrailleNote mPower and Pac Mate > are the only three Braille notetakers at the moment? I have an mPower I > want to get rid of, but at six thousand dollars for a new device the damn > thing had better do what I need it to. KeySoft is not all that amusing for > me, but for anyone considering the mPower it has more to do with personal > preference. > > I found a comparison chart on GW Micro's web site over these three products, > but I would be interested in another round of personal reviews from anyone > who can speak to their likes and dislikes on the units. > > Thanks in advance for any assistance. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4401 (20090906) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 8 16:31:34 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:31:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] BookSense manual now in Braille Message-ID: <76C1EEEBE1B14556B3092045E61488C4@dwrigh6> Hello all, Handy Tech North America is pleased to now offer a free complementary Brail Manual available upon request when you order either the standard or XT models of the BookSense. Enjoy the ability to learn the world's most advanced DAISY reader and multimedia player/recorder with the hard copy Braille manual laid out in front of you as you explore this intuitive and powerful access tool. This document is also available to people who obtained their BookSense elsewhere for only $49.99. I'm sorry, this offer is not available retroactively; however, existing HTNA customers may purchase this document for only $25.00. This document is being reproduced in Braille with permission from the copyright holder. As always, please don't hesitate to contact Handy Tech North America should you have any other questions whatsoever at: 651-636-5184 sales at handytech.us Best regards, Dave Wright Regional Sales Manager- Handy Tech North America Phone: 651-636-5184 X803 Mobile: 347-422-7085 Fax: 866-347-8249 E-mail: dave at handytech.us Web site: http://www.handytech.us From pajohns1 at vt.edu Tue Sep 8 23:50:55 2009 From: pajohns1 at vt.edu (pajohns1 at vt.edu) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:50:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] A Jeopardy classic contestant, Eddie Timanus where is he now? Message-ID: Groups, Tonight on Jeopardy a classic episode from 1999 featuring Eddie Timanus, a five time winner who Alex said was the show's first blind contestant. Out of idle curiousity I'd be interested to find out what he is up to these days and if he still calls Reston, VA., home. Thanks, Patrick From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 04:02:39 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:02:39 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS September Bulletin and Student Slate Fall 2009! Message-ID: <85ff10070909082102v239c7alfb32dfce07c03935@mail.gmail.com> national Association of Blind Students >From the Desk of the President September 8, 2009 In This Bulletin: 1. The Student Slate is Back! 2. Tis the Season of State Conventions 3. Save the Date 4. Want to Help Us Out? 5. Announcements 1. The Student Slate is Back! For over ten years the National Association of Blind Students has published a newsletter, the Student Slate, highlighting the goings-on in NABS as well as the array of things that blind students are doing every day. I’m pleased to attach the fall 2009 issue of the Student Slate to this bulletin for your enjoyment. The new editors of the Student Slate have promised to begin releasing our newsletter every three months. Enjoy and pass it on to anyone you know who wants to know what blind students have been doing lately! 2. Tis the Season: Fall is upon us, and along with the beginning of a new school year, fall is also the time when many NFB state conventions are happening across the country. At these conventions, NFB members throughout the state gather to share information, develop positions and goals regarding important blindness issues in the state, and also enjoy great fellowship in the process. Many of these state conventions also feature seminars, socials or other fun networking opportunities for students. If you want to find out when your state is having its next convention, you can go to http://www.nfb.org/nfb/state_conventions.asp?SnID=1342788108 and search for your state in the list. Click on your state’s link to get contact information for the state affiliate president, if you don’t already have it. Is your state doing something special for students at your convention? If so, we'd like to announce it in the next bulletin. Send details to Nabs.president at gmail.com Finally, we now have an online form through which to request a NABS board representative to come to your event. If you'd like to request a NABS rep at your convention or other student event, go to www.nabslink.org and click the "Request a NABS rep" link from the main page. 3. Save the Date: The National Association of Blind Students will be having its next meeting and student seminar on Sunday, January 31, at the Holiday Inn Capitol Hotel in Washington, D.C. We will be meeting just prior to the National Federation of the Blind's annual Washington Seminar, at which we meet with our national senators and representatives to discuss important legislative issues affecting blind Americans. Stay tuned for details about the NABS meeting and legislative seminar in future bulletins. Meanwhile, if you have any suggestions for us about what you'd like to see discussed at our meeting or the kinds of activities you'd like us to do as a student division, drop me an email and let me know. 4. Want to Help Us Out? The National Association of Blind Students has several ongoing committees that work on maintaining and developing specific aspects of the organization. All of our committees welcome new participants. You don't have to be a current student to serve on a committee; all that is required is willingness to work and to contribute your ideas. Please contact the following individuals if you are interested in joining their committee: Website: Meghan Whalen mewhalen at wisc.edu Listserv: Jedi Moerke blindjedi at clearwire.net Membership: Darian Smith ds94124 at aol.com Student Slate: Sean Whalen smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Fund-Raising: Isaiah Wilcox Iwilcox2011 at gmail.com 5. Announcements: Montana Student Division Campout: Jim Reed, president of the Montana Association of Blind Students, reports on a recent MABS campout. The Montana Association of Blind Students was recently organized and, despite its small membership, was able to put together a fun and inspiring event that combined recreation with the development of strong blindness philosophy: We had nine people attend. Noteworthy attendees include Dan Burke – state affiliate president, Cindy Letcher – state affiliate board member, and Jedi Moerke – President, Washington Association of Blind Students/NABS representative. We took care of some business matters including amending our constitution to allow for a smaller board, electing a Vice President, and planning a fundraiser (selling Louis Braille coins at our state convention). Additionally we offered and awarded a few scholarships for students attending the MAB state convention. Also, we all agreed that the long-term goal for the Student Division should be to establish and maintain a mentoring program. Last, due to the fact that I will be leaving Montana to attend LCB training center, and the fact that I will no longer be a student, I announced my resignation as MABS President, effective January 31st, 2010. Our newly elected VP will become the new president. We also had some good discussions. Dan Burke and Jedi Moerke led several discussions related to blindness, NFB blindness philosophy, the role/purpose of the NFB, state affiliates, and student divisions. Additionally, there was some discussion of training centers; we had LCB and CCB graduates present, and they represented their schools well. Most importantly, we had a lot of fun and new friendships were made. In addition to perfecting old skills such as hanging out around a campfire or falling in the river, many people got to learn and use new skills such as setting up tents, operating propane stoves, and starting, maintaining, and cooking over a campfire. Additionally, familiar blindness skills such as cane travel and cooking got to be practiced in a new environment. And, in a discovery that will benefit blind people everywhere, Jedi discovered a non-visual method for differentiating between cans of Pepsi products and Budweiser cans (the line surrounding the pull tab and mouth on the Budweiser can is a “figure 8” shape, whereas the line on the Pepsi can is more of an oval shape). FYI, there was no cost for anyone attending the campout. Using grant money from the NFB’s Imagination Fund, the Student Division spent $750 on food, supplies, tent rental, campsite reservations, bus tickets, gas, and a driver. Many people expressed an interest in making a Student Division campout an annual event. Southeast Regional Seminar Update: On August 14-16, 2009, the Georgia Association of Blind Students hosted a seminar for students in the Southeast in Macon, GA. There were about twenty-five students in attendance including representatives from Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi. The seminar featured a series of breakout sessions addressing topics of common interest to blind students such as technology, career development and blindness philosophy. Students also learned about fashion and had the chance to practice their newfound skills at a banquet and dance at the end of the seminar. Congratulations to the Southeast region for hosting such an educational seminar. Delaware Student Division Fund-Raiser: The Delaware student division is selling entertainment books until Dec. 10, 2009. Coupons in the books are valid until November 2010. To order your entertainment book go to http://www.fundraising.entertainment.com/esale2.cfm?CI=953897&SI=678037&LI=1 Additionally, Katherine Newman reports the following from Delaware: Next month Oct. 23-24 2009. Delaware is having our state convention in Dover and would like to invite our neighboring states: NJ, Pa, Maryland, and Northern Virginia. The Student Division Convention will be Friday night with partying afterwards. If anyone would like to attend please contact Catherine Newman via phone or email off line and I will give you more updates as they come out. Do need to reserve rooms by October 26. There will also be an auction on Saturday with neat items so if you are planning to come bring money. Hope to see you all at the Delaware convention and I hope you all had a GREAT summer. Sincerely Yours, Catherine Newman 302 384 6879 NABS_DelawareDivision at yahoo.com Virginia Youth Blowout: The National Federation of the Blind of Virginia, in association with the Virginia Student Division, is pleased to announce the second Virginia Youth Blowout, to be held at the National Center in Baltimore October 23-25. We are expecting 40 high schoolers from around the state to attend and learn about techniques for succeeding as a blind student, advancing their leadership skills, and building their confidence. About a dozen blind adult and college student mentors will lead the activities and supervise the students. Mark Riccobono will lead his very popular activity from two years ago with the students, where he taught them how a blind person can safely use a chainsaw to cut through a piece of wood. We're also hoping to have a hybrid car demonstration, and teach the students how to safely travel in a world with increasing numbers of quiet cars. Plus, the students will learn how to safely break boards with their bare hands! For more details or to receive an application, please contact John Bailey at 703-994-2040 or john_bailey17 at hotmail.com Talking Calculator Resources: Kayleigh Joiner, a high school student from Texas who participated in the 2009 Youth Slam, provides some useful information about accessible scientific and graphing calculators: Hello NABS listers, My name is Kayleigh and I am a high school senior in Texas. I have had a little bit of experience with a calculator called the Orion TI-83. Here is a link that compares this calculator along with several other talking scientific calculators so that you can see which one will work best for you. The one that I am referring to is in the second table. http://www.tsbvi.edu/math/talk-sci-calc.htm That calculator will only speak the scientific part of it. In order to deal with the graphing part of math you can download a product called the Accessible Graphing Calculator (AGC). This is a piece of software that you use on a computer. You can download it for a 30 day trial and if you like it you can then purchase a license for it. Here is that link: http://www.tsbvi.edu/math/talk-sci-calc.htm This information is from a teacher that is certified in teaching math and blind/visually impaired students. If you have any other questions about other school subjects feel free to email me off list at: kayleigh281 at yahoo.com I hope that this information helps. Sincerely, Kayleigh -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Student Slate Fall 2009.doc Type: application/msword Size: 94208 bytes Desc: not available URL: From agrima at nbp.org Wed Sep 9 18:16:05 2009 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:16:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Where Does the Garbage Go? in print/braille Message-ID: Hello - here's the September 2009 Book Club Selection from National Braille Press. -Tony Grima, NBP Where Does the Garbage Go? by Paul Showers A "Let's-Read-and-Find-Out/Science" book Print/Braille edition, in contracted braille, $5.99 Ages 4-9 Follow that garbage truck! ... to the landfill to see how trash keeps piling up ... to the incinerator to see how trash can be turned into energy ... to the recycling center to see how a soda bottle can be turned into a flowerpot. Clearly written and accessible to young children, "Where Does the Garbage Go?" shows how we deal with the problem of too much trash and provides ideas for easy ways to be a part of the solution. Diagrams explain how a landfill is built and how an incinerator works. Reading this descriptive book is like taking a school trip to the local trash and recycling center! "My 3 year old grandson loves this book. I bought it for him because he loves to watch the garbage truck come by every week. This book really taught him what happens to the garbage after pick-up." - E. Ellsner, Cailfornia To order or read more about this book online, visit http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/BC0909-GARBAGE.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 20. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Wed Sep 9 21:58:00 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 16:58:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] A September 11 Tribute On Radio360 Tonight Message-ID: Hi All! Join me on Let's Go To The Movies tonight at 9 PM eastern on Radio360, as we, in memory of September 11, present the story complete with audio description of United 93. This movie tells the gripping story of the passengers who attempted to take over the plane that was speculated to be headed towards the White House or Camp David, but crashed before doing any damage to any of the buildings. Hear the sounds of air traffic control to the panic passengers in this sad but gripping story. To hear it, save this email, and at 9 PM eastern, go to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to listen to the show. Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station manager http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4411 (20090909) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From info at michaelhingson.com Thu Sep 10 02:52:53 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:52:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Demos in the Washington D.C. Area Message-ID: All, If you know of anyone in the DC area who would like to see a demo of the KnfbReader Mobile I will be there this coming Tuesday and Wednesday, September 15 and 16 working with our new local dealer, Burt Levy at the Beyond Specs and the White Cane '& more' store located at 8720 Georgia Avenue, Suite #302 Silver Spring, MD 20910-3638. You may contact Bert at (301) 589-0866 to arrange for a demonstration of the Reader. Byrd has taken over the job from Harold Snider because of Harold's passing earlier this year. We will be demonstrating both the n82 and the N86 versions of the Reader. Since the N82 is rapidly disappearing we will probably be migrating fully to the N86 by the end of September unless we find a new stash of phones. Switching to the newer phone will require an increase in the overall price of the Reader. More on that later. I hope to see some of you while we are in DC. Best, The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 10 03:54:21 2009 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:54:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fw=3A_Accessible_World_Presents_Learn_Som?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ething!_=22Traveling_as_a_blind_person=2C=22_Septem?= =?iso-8859-1?q?ber_15th=2C_2009?= Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: News Wire To: ginisd at sbcglobal.net Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Accessible World Presents Learn Something! "Traveling as a blind person," September 15th, 2009 News Wire Come pick up information and tips on traveling! We will be holding a panel discussion on traveling for blind and visually impaired persons. Three experienced travelers will share their experiences and offer tips and suggestions to make traveling easier. Discussions are underway to add a fourth panelist who operates a travel agency specializing in travel for the blind. This is also a chance to share some of your own travel experiences as there will be some open time for questions and discussion. Panelists: Diana St. James, Owner, Dimension in Travel, Novato, California Ruth Ann Acosta Sherry Wells Larry Gasman Sherry Wells organized this panel.Thanks Sherry! See you there! Nan Hawthorne, Group Facilitator Email: hawthorne at nanhawthorne.com Date: Tuesday, September 15th, 2009 Time: 6:00 p.m. PDT, 7:00 p.m. MDT, 8:00 p.m. CDT, 9:00 p.m. EDT and elsewhere in the world Wednesday 1:00 GMT. Approximately 15 minutes prior to the event start time; go to the Accessible World Classroom at: http://conference321.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rs0f1c528bd81b Or, alternatively, Select the Accessible World Classroom at: www.accessibleworld.org Enter your first and last name. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available on every entry screen to the Accessible World rooms. All online interactive programs require no password, are free of charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience. To speak to us, hold down the control key and let up to listen. If no microphone is available, you may text chat with the attendees. Accessible World uses News Wires, like this one, to inform people of the topic and times for the many Discussion Groups on Accessible World. The lists are announce only to keep the traffic to a minimum. You can join the Accessible World Announce List, the Tek Talk Announce List or the Sports Talk Announce List by completing the form at: www.accessibleworld.org/mailinglists Accessible World Contacts: Robert Acosta, Chair Accessible World 818-998-0044 Email: boacosta at pacbell.net Web: www.helpinghands4theblind.org Joann Becker, Events Coordinator Accessible World 617-969-1213 Email: joannbecker at pcomcast.net George Buys, CEO. Talking Communities Email: buys at talkingcommunities.com The Accessible World, a division of Helping Hands For The Blind, a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization, seeks to educate the general public, the disabled community and the professionals who serve them by providing highly relevant information about new products, services, and training opportunities designed specifically to eliminate geographic and access barriers that adversely affect them -- If you no longer wish to receive any more announcements from the Accessible World announce list service, you may unsubscribe, edit your preferences or forward this email by using one of the links below. Unsubscribe: this link Update your preferences or unsubscribe: this link Forward a Message to Someone: this link -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: powerphplist.png Type: image/png Size: 2408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 10 15:00:01 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:00:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Go Totally Mobile Today! Message-ID: <033836AAB41C491E86216EACA7712BCC@dwrigh6> Hi all, Handy Tech North America still has a limited quantity of the Nokia N82 cell phones available. We have sold hundreds of these devices over the past couple of years bundled with the K-NFB Reader Mobile, Nuance Talks and Code Factory screen readers, Way Finder Access GPS navigation software and are sad's that the Nokia N82 has reached the end of its life cycle. The good news is that while this particular hardware will no longer be available, the software solutions continue happily on and are supported on other devices such as the new and exciting Nokia N86. Of course, everybody understands that products such as this are generally more expensive when they first come out is was the case with the N82. we still have 12 N82's on the shelf new, in the box and priced to go when purchased alone or as part of a K-NFB Reader Mobile, Mobile screen reader of GPS access solution. Please contact Handy Tech North America for pricing and to explore the software solutions that may be right for you by calling: 651-636-5184 Or by e-mailing: sales at handytech.us Visit Handy Tech North America on the Web at: http://www.handytech.us to read more about our company and the many other adaptive technology solutions we have to offer. All K-NFB reader bundles are custom built, tested and show up at your door ready to use. Best regards, Dave Wright Regional Sales Manager- Handy Tech North America Phone: 651-636-5184 X803 Mobile: 347-422-7085 Fax: 866-347-8249 E-mail: dave at handytech.us Web site: http://www.handytech.us From jty727 at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 18:50:46 2009 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:50:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State Association for Blind Students Message-ID: <54d8179e0909101150l6336d90cu6ca2e50c56294b47@mail.gmail.com> Hello, My name is Justin Young and I'm a visually impaired Student in Rochester, New York. In the process of the emails from NABS President Silverman I was informed that the New York State Division of NABS has been disorganized. I was also told many reorganizational attempts were made. Well, its important the Blind Students in the State of New York have a group just like the many other states. This is why I'm writing this. To any New Yorker on this list I think somehow the Division needs to be reorganized because its nice to have a organization to network with other Visually impaired people for suggestions/comments for example if they are facing problem and need advice on how to get it solved or different resources the other person has. We are all each other's resource because as the poet Robert Frost once said "Two roads I verged in a Wood and I, I took the one less Traveled by." Meaning no person is exactly alike and our decisions in life steer us to different areas of Study and just life in general. So, I really hope the New Yorkers agree with me and I really hope the State of New York can join in. Thank you for your time in reading this and I hope to hear from any and all New Yorkers. Sincerely, Justin T. Young From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 20:24:26 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:24:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State Associationfor Blind Students In-Reply-To: <54d8179e0909101150l6336d90cu6ca2e50c56294b47@mail.gmail.com> References: <54d8179e0909101150l6336d90cu6ca2e50c56294b47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Justin, Have you tried to contact Carl Jacobson the president of the State Chapter? The reason I ask is because he might have an old copy of the old constitution for the old student group. I actually also tried to get the student group up and going again. But, I kind of gave up because I was having a hard time finding four or five people to get the chapter up and going again. In fact, I was supposed to have gone to Baltimore last March to participate in the training seminar they had but even though they had paid for the plane ticket I would have had to for the cab to take me in two places from my home to the Albany International airport and back when I returned from Baltimore and From the airport to the Jernigan Center in Baltimore. Are you on Facebook by chance? Feel free to email me off list at jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com if you would like about this topic. The state of New York isn't my first attempt at starting to organize a student affiliate for either of the national blindness organizations. I attempted to try and organize a NABS affiliate for the American Council for the Blind in Vermont and the didn't really work very well. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State Associationfor Blind Students > Hello, > My name is Justin Young and I'm a visually impaired Student in > Rochester, New York. In the process of the emails from NABS President > Silverman I was informed that the New York State Division of NABS has > been disorganized. I was also told many reorganizational attempts > were made. Well, its important the Blind Students in the State of New > York have a group just like the many other states. This is why I'm > writing this. To any New Yorker on this list I think somehow the > Division needs to be reorganized because its nice to have a > organization to network with other Visually impaired people for > suggestions/comments for example if they are facing problem and need > advice on how to get it solved or different resources the other person > has. We are all each other's resource because as the poet Robert > Frost once said "Two roads I verged in a Wood and I, I took the one > less Traveled by." Meaning no person is exactly alike and our > decisions in life steer us to different areas of Study and just life > in general. So, I really hope the New Yorkers agree with me and I > really hope the State of New York can join in. > Thank you for your time in reading this and I hope to hear from any > and all New Yorkers. > > Sincerely, > > Justin T. Young > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 20:32:05 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:32:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State Associationfor Blind Students In-Reply-To: References: <54d8179e0909101150l6336d90cu6ca2e50c56294b47@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5FC1F485-6B2D-4623-965D-92D6A174EDEC@gmail.com> We're trying to get the Virginia group up and going -- I've been working on it for two years. What I am now trying, and something I would suggest to you, is to get a core group of students BEFORE working on organizational logistics, if possible. Have an informal group of blind folks get together when you can -- include high schoolers, college folks, and graduate students. I'm not saying that's easy -- but it might be easier than trying to divide up roles and assigning leadership right away. Corbb P.S. How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90 percent! To help, please consider purchasing a Louis Braille Commemorative Silver Dollar from the U.S. Mint: http://www.braille.org On Sep 10, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Jess wrote: Justin, Have you tried to contact Carl Jacobson the president of the State Chapter? The reason I ask is because he might have an old copy of the old constitution for the old student group. I actually also tried to get the student group up and going again. But, I kind of gave up because I was having a hard time finding four or five people to get the chapter up and going again. In fact, I was supposed to have gone to Baltimore last March to participate in the training seminar they had but even though they had paid for the plane ticket I would have had to for the cab to take me in two places from my home to the Albany International airport and back when I returned from Baltimore and From the airport to the Jernigan Center in Baltimore. Are you on Facebook by chance? Feel free to email me off list at jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com if you would like about this topic. The state of New York isn't my first attempt at starting to organize a student affiliate for either of the national blindness organizations. I attempted to try and organize a NABS affiliate for the American Council for the Blind in Vermont and the didn't really work very well. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State Associationfor Blind Students > Hello, > My name is Justin Young and I'm a visually impaired Student in > Rochester, New York. In the process of the emails from NABS President > Silverman I was informed that the New York State Division of NABS has > been disorganized. I was also told many reorganizational attempts > were made. Well, its important the Blind Students in the State of New > York have a group just like the many other states. This is why I'm > writing this. To any New Yorker on this list I think somehow the > Division needs to be reorganized because its nice to have a > organization to network with other Visually impaired people for > suggestions/comments for example if they are facing problem and need > advice on how to get it solved or different resources the other person > has. We are all each other's resource because as the poet Robert > Frost once said "Two roads I verged in a Wood and I, I took the one > less Traveled by." Meaning no person is exactly alike and our > decisions in life steer us to different areas of Study and just life > in general. So, I really hope the New Yorkers agree with me and I > really hope the State of New York can join in. > Thank you for your time in reading this and I hope to hear from any > and all New Yorkers. > > Sincerely, > > Justin T. Young > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu Sep 10 23:07:21 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:07:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Endorses Google Books Settlement Before Congress Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org National Federation of the Blind Endorses Google Books Settlement Before Congress Urges Justice Department to Support Settlement Washington, DC (September 10, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind, the nation's oldest and largest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for access by the blind to digital information, testified before the House Judiciary Committee today that the proposed settlement between Google and authors and publishers regarding the Google Books project should be approved. The Google Books settlement will make millions of titles available to the blind and other Americans with print disabilities, providing more access to the printed word than the blind have had in all of human history. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, told the House Judiciary Committee: "The Google settlement is, for the blind and many others, the next step in the democratization of knowledge. That process began with the introduction of the printing press and then, for the blind, with the invention of Braille. Now technology is available that transcends the traditional limitations of both print and Braille, promising to make millions of titles available to the blind in Braille or any other format of our choice. The narrow business interests of Google's competitors must not be allowed to block Americans who cannot read print from all of the opportunities that greater access to written knowledge will make available to them. It is time for the doors of the world's great libraries to be opened and welcome to everyone." The National Federation of the Blind also urged the United States Department of Justice, which is reviewing the terms of the settlement, to support the agreement. "The Google Books settlement is a major step forward in advancing the civil rights of blind Americans and others who cannot read print because it substantially increases our opportunities for education and employment," President Maurer said. "The Justice Department, which is tasked with protecting the civil rights of all Americans, should respect the agreement of the parties to the settlement and allow its access provisions to be fully implemented. In doing so, the government will send a strong message that it values the participation of the blind in society and believes that we should have access to all of the information to which our sighted friends and colleagues have access." ### From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 01:05:02 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:05:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] spss help Message-ID: Hello All! So, I'm using spss 17 with jaws, and I was wondering if anyone out there has been able to use it and how!! I need serious help!! Please email me off list. Thanks Mary -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From trev.saunders at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 01:42:24 2009 From: trev.saunders at gmail.com (Trevor Saunders) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:42:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] spss help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, spss has been discussed on blind-math at nfbnet.org a number of times. I don't remember if it works with jaws. If you find it doesn't work with jaws using "R" in command mode will work well with jaws, and R does the same things spsss does. Asking on blind-math at nfbnet.org should get you what you need though. Trev From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net Fri Sep 11 02:41:05 2009 From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:41:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question Message-ID: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend themselves? From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 03:18:04 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:18:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: <576D2445E1D14FA2B7F81E636A889FA7@teal6e6857f643> I am all for the air horn. VERY loud and instantanious. You will make them leave you alone if you promise to not blow it. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wassmer" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:41 PM Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question > Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a > blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, > then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the > gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned > around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend > themselves? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From alberto.2500 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 03:19:45 2009 From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (alberto arreola) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:19:45 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: <4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com> I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training to use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they don't know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two conceals weapon permits. Alberto -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Wassmer Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend themselves? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail .com From kevin at kevinlarose.net Fri Sep 11 04:04:01 2009 From: kevin at kevinlarose.net (Kevin LaRose) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:04:01 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> <576D2445E1D14FA2B7F81E636A889FA7@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <1F7DCA31480A454DB3525223AAAB91DA@acer6e40e97492> If one is properly schooled in self-defense techniques, a gun shouldn't be necessary. In fact, it could be seen as overkill. Um, wait, no pun intended there... I'm protected by SpamBrave http://www.spambrave.com/ From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 04:47:59 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:47:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: <728B4A3DDF3346D5A68CA0D21C4EDD4D@Rufus> I am no more in favor of allowing blind people to wield guns than I am in favor of allowing them to get behind the steering wheel of a car. In the woods under proper instruction or in an empty parking lot with a good guiding passenger, by all means enjoy yourself, but technology has not advanced far enough to justify the popular practice of either of these activities in the general public. The argument will no doubt be made that technological advancements did not keep scientists from envisioning themselves on the moon. This is true, but as dismal as it may be, space exploration was not achieved at the risk of lives outside of the people engaged in the experiment. For me it has nothing to do with ability. I have no doubt that blind people could learn the skills involved in handling a gun or steering a car. It has more to do with the basic element of sight involved in aiming the weapon and driving the vehicle, but I do not trust technology to weigh the delicate line between life and death, which is why I would never trust myself to board a plane that flew itself. After all, this too is not beyond the realm of contemplation. Don't let these observations fool you. It is no mystery I am politically conservative and pro gun rights. Yet I feel that as a minority segment of society we have very limited political capital to spend on educating Congress and the public at large. I would rather spend that little bit of capital on convincing people we can work competently in an office before we go trying to persuade folks we can blow a hole with decent accuracy. On a more practical level, I would rather use some of that capital to redirect funding toward finding ways to minimize or maybe even prevent blindness, so that if an intruder were to attempt to injure my family I can make damn sure that the first shot is all I needed. So, there's my twenty dollar's worth. I may have widened the scope of what was originally called for, but it's a fine discussion thread to kick off the semester. Never a dull moment on the good old NABS-L. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Wassmer Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend themselves? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4415 (20090910) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4415 (20090910) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 05:01:10 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:01:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <576D2445E1D14FA2B7F81E636A889FA7@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4aa9d995.141bf30a.4dba.ffff8a1f@mx.google.com> Or I thnk it is wasp spray or somethinglike tht. I can't remember what it is but it will get someone from a distence. It is likemace. But No I don't think a blind person should carry a handgun. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:18 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question I am all for the air horn. VERY loud and instantanious. You will make them leave you alone if you promise to not blow it. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wassmer" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:41 PM Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question > Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a > blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, > then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the > gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned > around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend > themselves? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From nefamphetamine at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 10:14:14 2009 From: nefamphetamine at gmail.com (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:14:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State Associationfor Blind Students In-Reply-To: <5FC1F485-6B2D-4623-965D-92D6A174EDEC@gmail.com> References: <54d8179e0909101150l6336d90cu6ca2e50c56294b47@mail.gmail.com> <5FC1F485-6B2D-4623-965D-92D6A174EDEC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d644bc30909110314h4187b4fai74aff652cf11ff3@mail.gmail.com> Heya: Proud New York City resident here who knows of many blind students throughout the 5 Burroughs and Long Island who might be willing to give your idea a try. First question is: How would we go about meeting up and the like when we lead such involved lives and you live upstate? Feel free to E-mail off list. Nef On 9/10/09, Corbb O'Connor wrote: > We're trying to get the Virginia group up and going -- I've been > working on it for two years. What I am now trying, and something I > would suggest to you, is to get a core group of students BEFORE > working on organizational logistics, if possible. Have an informal > group of blind folks get together when you can -- include high > schoolers, college folks, and graduate students. I'm not saying that's > easy -- but it might be easier than trying to divide up roles and > assigning leadership right away. > > Corbb > > P.S. How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they > are blind, the answer is 90 percent! To help, please consider > purchasing a Louis Braille Commemorative Silver Dollar from the U.S. > Mint: http://www.braille.org > > On Sep 10, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Jess wrote: > > Justin, > Have you tried to contact Carl Jacobson the president of the State > Chapter? > The reason I ask is because he might have an old copy of the old > constitution for the old student group. I actually also tried to get the > student group up and going again. But, I kind of gave up because I was > having a hard time finding four or five people to get the chapter up and > going again. In fact, I was supposed to have gone to Baltimore last > March to > participate in the training seminar they had but even though they had > paid > for the plane ticket I would have had to for the cab to take me in two > places from my home to the Albany International airport and back when I > returned from Baltimore and From the airport to the Jernigan Center in > Baltimore. Are you on Facebook by chance? Feel free to email me off > list > at jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com if you would like about this topic. > The > state of New York isn't my first attempt at starting to organize a > student > affiliate for either of the national blindness organizations. I > attempted to > try and organize a NABS affiliate for the American Council for the > Blind in > Vermont and the didn't really work very well. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin Young" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 2:50 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Possibility of Reorganizing the New York State > Associationfor Blind Students > > >> Hello, >> My name is Justin Young and I'm a visually impaired Student in >> Rochester, New York. In the process of the emails from NABS President >> Silverman I was informed that the New York State Division of NABS has >> been disorganized. I was also told many reorganizational attempts >> were made. Well, its important the Blind Students in the State of New >> York have a group just like the many other states. This is why I'm >> writing this. To any New Yorker on this list I think somehow the >> Division needs to be reorganized because its nice to have a >> organization to network with other Visually impaired people for >> suggestions/comments for example if they are facing problem and need >> advice on how to get it solved or different resources the other person >> has. We are all each other's resource because as the poet Robert >> Frost once said "Two roads I verged in a Wood and I, I took the one >> less Traveled by." Meaning no person is exactly alike and our >> decisions in life steer us to different areas of Study and just life >> in general. So, I really hope the New Yorkers agree with me and I >> really hope the State of New York can join in. >> Thank you for your time in reading this and I hope to hear from any >> and all New Yorkers. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Justin T. Young >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com > From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 11:39:48 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:39:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> <4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4EB6CA0607D44CA0AB0BC0A6B5CB6A48@SonyPC> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of whether a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main question at stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the proper training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The bigger question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. ----- Original Message ----- From: "alberto arreola" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training to > use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they don't > know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. > > You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of > heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two > conceals weapon permits. > Alberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kevin Wassmer > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a > blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, > then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the > gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned > around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend > themselves? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 14:09:21 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:09:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> <4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7664DE6D825246B381D6AF9E0618B5FF@teal6e6857f643> well in minnesota we can hunt but only with sighted help. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "alberto arreola" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:19 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training to > use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they don't > know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. > > You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of > heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two > conceals weapon permits. > Alberto > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Kevin Wassmer > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a > blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, > then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the > gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned > around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend > themselves? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 14:12:42 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:12:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com> <4EB6CA0607D44CA0AB0BC0A6B5CB6A48@SonyPC> Message-ID: <98B76AC3677F45E08569FDEC2F539707@teal6e6857f643> so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying a gun but rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with appropriate training and license like everyone else? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us that > the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of whether a > blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main question at stake. > In my opinion there is not a question that with the proper training a > blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The bigger question is > if the government denies us protections under the 2nd amendment, it will > set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "alberto arreola" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training to >> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >> don't >> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >> >> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >> conceals weapon permits. >> Alberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Kevin Wassmer >> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, >> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the >> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned >> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >> themselves? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 15:08:11 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:08:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <98B76AC3677F45E08569FDEC2F539707@teal6e6857f643> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com><4EB6CA0607D44CA0AB0BC0A6B5CB6A48@SonyPC> <98B76AC3677F45E08569FDEC2F539707@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <1A68ACC929764155885D035725DE2088@SonyPC> It is both. The right to bare arms is a right guaranteed by the constitution; this is not to be confused with a privilege. Having a weapon in the house is a good way of keeping safe, it has saved many peoples lives. As a political issue, it is important because it is clearly stating that blind people have exactly the same rights as sighted people. As a side bar, driving is a privelige. There is nothing in the constitution that guarantees it as a right. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying a gun but > rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with appropriate > training and license like everyone else? > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us >> that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of whether >> a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main question at >> stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the proper >> training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The bigger >> question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd >> amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "alberto arreola" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>to >>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>> don't >>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>> >>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>> conceals weapon permits. >>> Alberto >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, >>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>> the >>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>> turned >>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>> themselves? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 15:15:24 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:15:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <7664DE6D825246B381D6AF9E0618B5FF@teal6e6857f643> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com> <7664DE6D825246B381D6AF9E0618B5FF@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <1C8D0BF322124CAFB0B8389E4BB4504C@SonyPC> Hunting is different. In order to hunt you have to distinguish between the target animal and other movement and sounds in the woods. Not knowing what you are shooting at and what's behind it has caused many a hunting accident. Also people go hunting with buddies all the time. It is not that much of a limitation to be required to go hunting with a sighted buddy. Besides it is safer not only from a vision standpoint, but from a wilderness safety 1.1 standpoint as well. You know, the buddy system. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > well in minnesota we can hunt but only with sighted help. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "alberto arreola" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:19 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training to >> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >> don't >> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >> >> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >> conceals weapon permits. >> Alberto >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Kevin Wassmer >> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, >> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the >> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned >> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >> themselves? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 11 15:58:39 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:58:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: <005101ca32f8$bbb96c90$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, There are cases of blind persons who were forced to use guns in self defense. One such case happened here in Texas in the 1980s. Someone attempted to break in to the home of a blind person in the Austin Area. The gentlemen listened for the sound of the burglar's activities. Being sure the area was clear of others he pointed his gun, shot the burglar, and killed him. There are also accounts of blind hunters who successfully shot game with sighted assistance. There is an account of a federationist from I believe it is Iowa in a past issue of The Braille Monitor who successfully shot and killed a trophy elk. The above descriptions of the use of firearms by the blind indicate that even here it's possible with carefully thought-out alternative techniques and proper instruction in the use of firearms their use can be mastered by the blind. And like the sighted blind persons that make this choice must accept the consequences for improper and irresponsible use of weapons of any kind. As for the space program and risk taking remember those comments the next time you turn on your portable Braille Notetaker, read a book with your Victor Stream or your KNFB Reader Mobile, listen to music on your iPod, fly in a Very Lite Jet, or drive a car modified to permit a blind person to take the wheel the technology behind all of these inventions came from one place. If you said, "The Space Program" you're right. The next time you say that our space program took too many lives and is a risky business it's no more so than is going to war. War kills more individuals than the space program ever did. Those who became astronauts did so at their own risk a risk they knowingly took for the benefit of all humanity. And let us not forget that among our own ranks there are a few who wish to become astronauts one of which received and NFB Scholarship this year. I told a number of people that it would have been neat to be able to try out the car drivable by the blind at the Youth SLAM. For those of us who have delt with inadequate public transportation and want to make more efficient use of their time and have the freedom to live where they choose such a vehicle would be very empowering~~! I hope some prototypes are brought to next year's national convention for some of us to try out. That would be awesome! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wassmer" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:41 PM Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend themselves? _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From trillian551 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 16:11:19 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:11:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <005101ca32f8$bbb96c90$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> <005101ca32f8$bbb96c90$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Well, i mean, not for anything but if the other person got the shot out first, then the blind person is SOL. But that can happen to anyone. Oddly enough, the requirements to carry a gun in many states do not specify sight as a pre-requisite. So theoretically the yes is yes. It's a whole other story whether a blind person can shoot a gun safely, which is a bit of an oxymoron since guns aren't safe. Mary On 9/11/09, Peter Donahue wrote: > Good morning everyone, > > There are cases of blind persons who were forced to use guns in self > defense. One such case happened here in Texas in the 1980s. Someone > attempted to break in to the home of a blind person in the Austin Area. The > gentlemen listened for the sound of the burglar's activities. Being sure the > area was clear of others he pointed his gun, shot the burglar, and killed > him. > > There are also accounts of blind hunters who successfully shot game with > sighted assistance. There is an account of a federationist from I believe it > is Iowa in a past issue of The Braille Monitor who successfully shot and > killed a trophy elk. > > The above descriptions of the use of firearms by the blind indicate that > even here it's possible with carefully thought-out alternative techniques > and proper instruction in the use of firearms their use can be mastered by > the blind. And like the sighted blind persons that make this choice must > accept the consequences for improper and irresponsible use of weapons of any > kind. > > As for the space program and risk taking remember those comments the > next time you turn on your portable Braille Notetaker, read a book with your > Victor Stream or your KNFB Reader Mobile, listen to music on your iPod, fly > in a Very Lite Jet, or drive a car modified to permit a blind person to take > the wheel the technology behind all of these inventions came from one place. > If you said, "The Space Program" you're right. The next time you say that > our space program took too many lives and is a risky business it's no more > so than is going to war. War kills more individuals than the space program > ever did. Those who became astronauts did so at their own risk a risk they > knowingly took for the benefit of all humanity. And let us not forget that > among our own ranks there are a few who wish to become astronauts one of > which received and NFB Scholarship this year. > > I told a number of people that it would have been neat to be able to > try out the car drivable by the blind at the Youth SLAM. For those of us who > have delt with inadequate public transportation and want to make more > efficient use of their time and have the freedom to live where they choose > such a vehicle would be > very empowering~~! I hope some prototypes are brought to next year's > national convention for some of us to try out. That would be awesome! > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Wassmer" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:41 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > > Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a > blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, > then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time the > gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person turned > around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend themselves? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 17:24:09 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <1A68ACC929764155885D035725DE2088@SonyPC> Message-ID: <21D8594BE3A34E27A14CE466E15A9CAC@Rufus> Mark, I like your constitutional point. It is a difficult one to counter, but in thinking of it I remember something my high school history teacher used to repeat over and over, that just as in the dictionary, we must have responsibility before we have rights. It's cheesy, but I think it's valid for this discussion. A blind person may clear, draw and aim with stunning precision, but without the element of accuracy the activity is irresponsible. In hunting it is expected that missed shots will inevitably occur, but even in hunting great steps are taken to make sure that the missed shot does not result in a wounded bystander. Hunting is not the same as street encounters. One presumes that if a gun is drawn it is to defend, and if one is defending one is also under enormous stress. Adrenaline, coupled with the inability to clearly gauge a target, makes for an already tense situation turn all the more risky where human lives are at stake. If blind people are allowed to legally carry guns then I should think I have the right to pursue my original ambition of joining the Marine Corps. The second amendment, after all, spins out of defense of self and state, and so if I understand the risks and knowingly place my life at risk I should not be barred from joining the armed forces on account of my sight alone. Actually, the Air Force should be studying ways to accommodate blind people in the flying of their aircraft. Never mind the gentleman who spoke at convention about his own experience with flying. It is not independent until the aircraft is launched, flown and brought down by that individual. Again, in response to Peter's thoughtful contribution, my hesitation has nothing to do with ability but rather with the technology that stands between the person and the result. Some people feel adamant about driving or shooting or flying or whatever the case may be. I am not convinced that innocent people's lives should be put at risk because we believe in a very literal definition of equality. Why spend so much money on reinforcing that middle man when the funds could be devoted to fixing the root of the problem in the first place. My own life will not crumble if medicine does not allow me to see better before I die, but if the technology could be used to the advantage of eliminating the need for technology itself, I think we will carve out that equality far quicker than the current means of advocacy and education that takes years to make tangible differences. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:08 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question It is both. The right to bare arms is a right guaranteed by the constitution; this is not to be confused with a privilege. Having a weapon in the house is a good way of keeping safe, it has saved many peoples lives. As a political issue, it is important because it is clearly stating that blind people have exactly the same rights as sighted people. As a side bar, driving is a privelige. There is nothing in the constitution that guarantees it as a right. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying a gun but > rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with appropriate > training and license like everyone else? > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us >> that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of whether >> a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main question at >> stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the proper >> training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The bigger >> question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd >> amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "alberto arreola" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>to >>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>> don't >>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>> >>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>> conceals weapon permits. >>> Alberto >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, >>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>> the >>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>> turned >>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>> themselves? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto. 2500%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11% 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo dworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4417 (20090911) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4417 (20090911) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Fri Sep 11 18:06:57 2009 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:06:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: I find this to be a rather interesting topic. After reding what has been posted thus far, it appears as though there is an assumption that all sighted people who carry a gun are propperly trained in how to use it. How do you know this is true? If a person has sight then does that automatically mean that they are somehow qualified to use it? In the heat of the moment where self defence is necessary, is someone's vision alone really all that reliable? I understand this does not apply to every gun owner, but I do not believe that every sighted person is propperly equip to use a gun propperly. Therefore, I tend to think of the right to bare arms and the ability to use them propperly as two distinctly different issues. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 From pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu Fri Sep 11 19:45:54 2009 From: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu (Philip So) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:45:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing New York association for blind students Message-ID: Hi Justin, Jess, Corbb, My name is Philip So. I am in the New York City metro area and attend graduate school in New York City. Justin, getting the New York students together again is an excellent idea. Thanks for suggesting this. I agree with you, Jess, that Mr. Carl Jacobson may be able to help us. Also, Nooria Nodrat used to organize the New York student group. Maybe she has useful information and resources, too, such as a list of students email addresses. I can try to find out from her. Thanks, Corbb, for offering your advice. It does seem more realistic to get the folks together in some form or fashion first, before working on the more complicated details of establishing a formal organization. Do we currently have an listserv emailing list for New York students? If not, perhaps that may be a good starting point. That can get the folks together and perhaps build a core group, as Corbb suggests, and use the help of Mr. Jacobson and Nooria. Please share with us what you think. Whatever we decide, I would be glad to contribute my effort together with you guys. I would also be glad to get in touch with the person who moderates NFBnet's lists. Please feel free to email me off list at pcs2001 at columbia.edu, or find me on Facebook using the same email address. Thanks. Talk soon. Best regards, Philip So New York City metro area Email: pcs2001 at columbia.edu Email 2: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 19:51:15 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:51:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com><4EB6CA0607D44CA0AB0BC0A6B5CB6A48@SonyPC><98B76AC3677F45E08569FDEC2F539707@teal6e6857f643> <1A68ACC929764155885D035725DE2088@SonyPC> Message-ID: <9A9978942852481896678B85A5B8F6AC@teal6e6857f643> i understand where you are comming from but will we ever be treated equally? It isnt just guns or driving it is everything. textbooks, jobs, driving, ability to own firearms... -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > It is both. The right to bare arms is a right guaranteed by the > constitution; this is not to be confused with a privilege. Having a weapon > in the house is a good way of keeping safe, it has saved many peoples > lives. As a political issue, it is important because it is clearly stating > that blind people have exactly the same rights as sighted people. > > As a side bar, driving is a privelige. There is nothing in the > constitution that guarantees it as a right. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying a gun but >> rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with appropriate >> training and license like everyone else? >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us >>> that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of >>> whether a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main >>> question at stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the >>> proper training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The >>> bigger question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd >>> amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "alberto arreola" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> >>>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>>to >>>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>>> don't >>>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>>> >>>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>>> conceals weapon permits. >>>> Alberto >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>>> >>>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is >>>> yes, >>>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>>> the >>>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>>> turned >>>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>>> themselves? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 19:55:02 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:55:02 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com><7664DE6D825246B381D6AF9E0618B5FF@teal6e6857f643> <1C8D0BF322124CAFB0B8389E4BB4504C@SonyPC> Message-ID: <0FBA35495B574F388347C5B22ED098ED@teal6e6857f643> with us not being able to hunt then who is it that causes all of the accidents? in the woods you never know for sure what you are shooting at because you heard leaves being walked across therefore it wouldnt be that much different. At the improb this last summer i saw a comedian and he talked about the blind being able to hunt in minnesota and jokingly said the sighted person with them had to wear orange vest with braille on it. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > Hunting is different. In order to hunt you have to distinguish between the > target animal and other movement and sounds in the woods. Not knowing what > you are shooting at and what's behind it has caused many a hunting > accident. > > Also people go hunting with buddies all the time. It is not that much of a > limitation to be required to go hunting with a sighted buddy. Besides it > is safer not only from a vision standpoint, but from a wilderness safety > 1.1 standpoint as well. You know, the buddy system. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> well in minnesota we can hunt but only with sighted help. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "alberto arreola" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>to >>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>> don't >>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>> >>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>> conceals weapon permits. >>> Alberto >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, >>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>> the >>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>> turned >>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>> themselves? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From aspooner at blindinc.org Fri Sep 11 21:02:36 2009 From: aspooner at blindinc.org (Al Spooner) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:02:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <9A9978942852481896678B85A5B8F6AC@teal6e6857f643> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com><4EB6CA0607D44CA0AB0BC0A6B5CB6A48@SonyPC><98B76AC3677F45E08569FDEC2F539707@teal6e6857f643><1A68ACC929764155885D035725DE2088@SonyPC> <9A9978942852481896678B85A5B8F6AC@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: Hi All, I thought that you might be interested in knowing that there actually is a blind person that has been tested and can legally carry a concealed weapons permit in 13 states. He lives in Fargo, North Dakota. I remember hearing about this on national news just a couple of years ago. Al Spooner -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question i understand where you are comming from but will we ever be treated equally? It isnt just guns or driving it is everything. textbooks, jobs, driving, ability to own firearms... -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > It is both. The right to bare arms is a right guaranteed by the > constitution; this is not to be confused with a privilege. Having a weapon > in the house is a good way of keeping safe, it has saved many peoples > lives. As a political issue, it is important because it is clearly stating > that blind people have exactly the same rights as sighted people. > > As a side bar, driving is a privelige. There is nothing in the > constitution that guarantees it as a right. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying a gun but >> rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with appropriate >> training and license like everyone else? >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us >>> that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of >>> whether a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main >>> question at stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the >>> proper training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The >>> bigger question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd >>> amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "alberto arreola" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> >>>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>>to >>>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>>> don't >>>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>>> >>>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>>> conceals weapon permits. >>>> Alberto >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>>> >>>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is >>>> yes, >>>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>>> the >>>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>>> turned >>>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>>> themselves? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. org From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 21:41:56 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 17:41:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing New York association forblind students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Philip, You would like me to I can set up and email list through either yahoogroups or googlegroups? I don't mind doing this for the moment because right now I have a bit of extra time on my hands. I'm going to set up the email list now. I'm most likely going to be setting it up on yahoogroups. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip So" To: Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing New York association forblind students > Hi Justin, Jess, Corbb, > > My name is Philip So. I am in the New York City metro area and attend > graduate school in New York City. > > Justin, getting the New York students together again is an excellent > idea. Thanks for suggesting this. > > I agree with you, Jess, that Mr. Carl Jacobson may be able to help us. > Also, Nooria Nodrat used to organize the New York student group. > Maybe she has useful information and resources, too, such as a list of > students > email addresses. I can try to find out from her. > > Thanks, Corbb, for offering your advice. It does seem more realistic > to get the folks together in some form or fashion first, before > working on the more complicated details of establishing a formal > organization. > > Do we currently have an listserv emailing list for New York students? If > not, > perhaps that may be a good starting point. That can get the folks > together and perhaps build a core group, as Corbb suggests, and use > the help of Mr. Jacobson and Nooria. > > Please share with us what you think. Whatever we decide, I would be > glad to contribute my effort together with you guys. I would also be > glad to get in touch with the person who moderates NFBnet's lists. > > Please feel free to email me off list at pcs2001 at columbia.edu, or find > me on Facebook using the same email address. > > Thanks. Talk soon. > > Best regards, > > Philip So > > New York City metro area > Email: pcs2001 at columbia.edu > Email 2: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 22:11:38 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:11:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing New York association forblind students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <58D9DC21C8C34250B523AB5C6FE063EB@Jessica> Philip and Justin, Here is the information for a yahoogroup that I just started . NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com If you guys need to help subscribing to the group let me know. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip So" To: Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing New York association forblind students > Hi Justin, Jess, Corbb, > > My name is Philip So. I am in the New York City metro area and attend > graduate school in New York City. > > Justin, getting the New York students together again is an excellent > idea. Thanks for suggesting this. > > I agree with you, Jess, that Mr. Carl Jacobson may be able to help us. > Also, Nooria Nodrat used to organize the New York student group. > Maybe she has useful information and resources, too, such as a list of > students > email addresses. I can try to find out from her. > > Thanks, Corbb, for offering your advice. It does seem more realistic > to get the folks together in some form or fashion first, before > working on the more complicated details of establishing a formal > organization. > > Do we currently have an listserv emailing list for New York students? If > not, > perhaps that may be a good starting point. That can get the folks > together and perhaps build a core group, as Corbb suggests, and use > the help of Mr. Jacobson and Nooria. > > Please share with us what you think. Whatever we decide, I would be > glad to contribute my effort together with you guys. I would also be > glad to get in touch with the person who moderates NFBnet's lists. > > Please feel free to email me off list at pcs2001 at columbia.edu, or find > me on Facebook using the same email address. > > Thanks. Talk soon. > > Best regards, > > Philip So > > New York City metro area > Email: pcs2001 at columbia.edu > Email 2: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From alberto.2500 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 22:33:22 2009 From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (alberto arreola) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:33:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com><4EB6CA0607D44CA0AB0BC0A6B5CB6A48@SonyPC><98B76AC3677F45E08569FDEC2F539707@teal6e6857f643><1A68ACC929764155885D035725DE2088@SonyPC> <9A9978942852481896678B85A5B8F6AC@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4aaad034.9513f30a.4e9b.fffff72c@mx.google.com> Yes this guy actually has two conceals permits, he has a book out, and I put his website a couple of messages below when I first responded to this question. I say check it out, and I do agree with lots of the stuff he wrote in his book. The book is a good read. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Al Spooner Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 3:03 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question Hi All, I thought that you might be interested in knowing that there actually is a blind person that has been tested and can legally carry a concealed weapons permit in 13 states. He lives in Fargo, North Dakota. I remember hearing about this on national news just a couple of years ago. Al Spooner -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question i understand where you are comming from but will we ever be treated equally? It isnt just guns or driving it is everything. textbooks, jobs, driving, ability to own firearms... -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > It is both. The right to bare arms is a right guaranteed by the > constitution; this is not to be confused with a privilege. Having a weapon > in the house is a good way of keeping safe, it has saved many peoples > lives. As a political issue, it is important because it is clearly stating > that blind people have exactly the same rights as sighted people. > > As a side bar, driving is a privelige. There is nothing in the > constitution that guarantees it as a right. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying a gun but >> rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with appropriate >> training and license like everyone else? >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just those of us >>> that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The question of >>> whether a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main >>> question at stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the >>> proper training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted one. The >>> bigger question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd >>> amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it might lead to. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "alberto arreola" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> >>>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>>to >>>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>>> don't >>>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>>> >>>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>>> conceals weapon permits. >>>> Alberto >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>>> >>>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is >>>> yes, >>>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>>> the >>>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>>> turned >>>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>>> themselves? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aspooner%40blindinc. org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail .com From alberto.2500 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 22:35:34 2009 From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (alberto arreola) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:35:34 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <0FBA35495B574F388347C5B22ED098ED@teal6e6857f643> References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f><4aa9c1d3.9513f30a.5c45.4e51@mx.google.com><7664DE6D825246B381D6AF9E0618B5FF@teal6e6857f643> <1C8D0BF322124CAFB0B8389E4BB4504C@SonyPC> <0FBA35495B574F388347C5B22ED098ED@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4aaad0b8.9613f30a.035d.fffff6de@mx.google.com> Really funny of hhim. Ha ha ha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:55 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question with us not being able to hunt then who is it that causes all of the accidents? in the woods you never know for sure what you are shooting at because you heard leaves being walked across therefore it wouldnt be that much different. At the improb this last summer i saw a comedian and he talked about the blind being able to hunt in minnesota and jokingly said the sighted person with them had to wear orange vest with braille on it. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > Hunting is different. In order to hunt you have to distinguish between the > target animal and other movement and sounds in the woods. Not knowing what > you are shooting at and what's behind it has caused many a hunting > accident. > > Also people go hunting with buddies all the time. It is not that much of a > limitation to be required to go hunting with a sighted buddy. Besides it > is safer not only from a vision standpoint, but from a wilderness safety > 1.1 standpoint as well. You know, the buddy system. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> well in minnesota we can hunt but only with sighted help. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "alberto arreola" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she receives training >>>to >>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a weapon if they >>> don't >>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>> >>> You might be interested in checking out this website which you might of >>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>> conceals weapon permits. >>> Alberto >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do you think a >>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the answer is yes, >>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if by the time >>> the >>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>> turned >>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>> themselves? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail .com From alberto.2500 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 22:45:50 2009 From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (alberto arreola) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:45:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: References: <477C4E6674D04E6DA4B557C64FC26B81@usore540475a8f> Message-ID: <4aaad320.9513f30a.06c8.5295@mx.google.com> I do agree with you on that, and I would say that the sighted people who have these permits have just gotten enough training on there own to be able to take the test and pass it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 12:07 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question I find this to be a rather interesting topic. After reding what has been posted thus far, it appears as though there is an assumption that all sighted people who carry a gun are propperly trained in how to use it. How do you know this is true? If a person has sight then does that automatically mean that they are somehow qualified to use it? In the heat of the moment where self defence is necessary, is someone's vision alone really all that reliable? I understand this does not apply to every gun owner, but I do not believe that every sighted person is propperly equip to use a gun propperly. Therefore, I tend to think of the right to bare arms and the ability to use them propperly as two distinctly different issues. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackT oSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail .com From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 23:35:44 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:35:44 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] spss help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85ff10070909111635h54472371l961629c5e7210dd3@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mary and all, I'm going to provide an abbreviated version of my usual response to SPSS queries. If you have follow-up questions, feel free to email me off-list or give me a call at 602-502-2255 as some of this stuff is better explained over the phone. In general, JAWS accessibility with SPSS is limited. I'd suggest first opening SPSS and figuring out whether or not you have a "Syntax Editor" in the file menu. If so, then you can use syntax (commands) to run your analyses. Use MS-Excel for any data manipulations and to read output, and use SPSS only to run your commands. If you want to go this route, email me off-list for a list of basic SPSS commands or ask your stats instructor. The alternative is to use SAS, which is fully accessible. I don't know for sure if R is fully usable, but it sounds like some blind students have gotten it to work as well. But SAS is definitely workable. As a short-term solution, if you're just doing T-tests or chi-square tests, there's a cool website that is fully accessible and that will do these basic analyses. The URL is: http://www.graphpad.com/quickcalcs/index.cfm Microsoft Excel can also do descriptive stats and correlation (Pearson's r) by itself. This is what I'm teaching my undergrad students to do. OK, this is not as brief as I intended, but call or email me if you have questions about any of the alternatives I've suggested. Arielle On 9/11/09, Trevor Saunders wrote: > Hey, > > spss has been discussed on blind-math at nfbnet.org a number of times. I > don't remember if it works with jaws. If you find it doesn't work with jaws > using "R" in command mode will work well with jaws, and R does the same > things spsss does. Asking on blind-math at nfbnet.org should get you what you > need though. > > Trev > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 23:51:50 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:51:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question In-Reply-To: <21D8594BE3A34E27A14CE466E15A9CAC@Rufus> References: <21D8594BE3A34E27A14CE466E15A9CAC@Rufus> Message-ID: <7DA1E88F65FF429799C44D49E501E11D@SonyPC> That is an excellent point Joe. In my opinion your statement if we have responsibility before we have rights means it is are responsibility to properly utilize and not abuse are rights. But there is nothing said about giving different rights to different people. Attempting to deny someone something for any difference actual or perceived is an infringement on there civil rights. That is the core of the matter. In response to your comment on joining the armed forces I submit that there is no reason that a blind person couldn't do most non combat jobs in the military. In the military there is a lot of support and technical positions that are similar to many of the jobs blind people perform every day in both the public and private sector. This thread about firearms and the blind has generated so much chatter that I am wondering if there is any interest in starting a blind shooting sports list to discuss the sport of recreational shooting further. If you are interested in starting such a list feel free to email me off list at kramc11 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > Mark, > > I like your constitutional point. It is a difficult one to counter, but > in > thinking of it I remember something my high school history teacher used to > repeat over and over, that just as in the dictionary, we must have > responsibility before we have rights. It's cheesy, but I think it's valid > for this discussion. A blind person may clear, draw and aim with stunning > precision, but without the element of accuracy the activity is > irresponsible. In hunting it is expected that missed shots will > inevitably > occur, but even in hunting great steps are taken to make sure that the > missed shot does not result in a wounded bystander. Hunting is not the > same > as street encounters. One presumes that if a gun is drawn it is to > defend, > and if one is defending one is also under enormous stress. Adrenaline, > coupled with the inability to clearly gauge a target, makes for an already > tense situation turn all the more risky where human lives are at stake. > > If blind people are allowed to legally carry guns then I should think I > have > the right to pursue my original ambition of joining the Marine Corps. The > second amendment, after all, spins out of defense of self and state, and > so > if I understand the risks and knowingly place my life at risk I should not > be barred from joining the armed forces on account of my sight alone. > Actually, the Air Force should be studying ways to accommodate blind > people > in the flying of their aircraft. Never mind the gentleman who spoke at > convention about his own experience with flying. It is not independent > until the aircraft is launched, flown and brought down by that individual. > > Again, in response to Peter's thoughtful contribution, my hesitation has > nothing to do with ability but rather with the technology that stands > between the person and the result. Some people feel adamant about driving > or shooting or flying or whatever the case may be. I am not convinced > that > innocent people's lives should be put at risk because we believe in a very > literal definition of equality. Why spend so much money on reinforcing > that > middle man when the funds could be devoted to fixing the root of the > problem > in the first place. My own life will not crumble if medicine does not > allow > me to see better before I die, but if the technology could be used to the > advantage of eliminating the need for technology itself, I think we will > carve out that equality far quicker than the current means of advocacy and > education that takes years to make tangible differences. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mark J. Cadigan > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:08 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > It is both. The right to bare arms is a right guaranteed by the > constitution; this is not to be confused with a privilege. > Having a weapon in the house is a good way of keeping safe, it > has saved many peoples lives. > As a political issue, it is important because it is clearly > stating that blind people have exactly the same rights as > sighted people. > > As a side bar, driving is a privelige. There is nothing in the > constitution that guarantees it as a right. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question > > >> so you are saying that its not necessarily actually carrying > a gun but >> rather its the priveledge of being able to carry a gun with > appropriate >> training and license like everyone else? >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 6:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >> >> >>> The 2nd amendment should apply to all Americans, not just > those of us >>> that the government deems fit a certain criteria. The > question of whether >>> a blind person can safely use a fire arm is not the main question at >>> stake. In my opinion there is not a question that with the proper >>> training a blind person can be just as safe as a sighted > one. The bigger >>> question is if the government denies us protections under the 2nd >>> amendment, it will set a precedent and who knows ware it > might lead to. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "alberto arreola" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 11:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>> >>> >>>>I think a blind person could carry a gun if he or she > receives training >>>>to >>>> use it properly. I don't think anyone should carry a > weapon if they >>>> don't >>>> know how to handle it the way it is supposed to be used. >>>> >>>> You might be interested in checking out this website which > you might of >>>> heard of already. www.careymcwilliams.com This guy actually has two >>>> conceals weapon permits. >>>> Alberto >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Kevin Wassmer >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:41 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] an interesting question >>>> >>>> Hello folks. I have an interesting question for you all. Do > you think a >>>> blind person can cary a hand gun for self defence? If the > answer is yes, >>>> then how would a blind person be able to shoot someone if > by the time >>>> the >>>> gun was loaded the other berson atempting to hurt the blind person >>>> turned >>>> around very fast? Can a blind person cary a hand gun and defend >>>> themselves? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto. > 2500%40gmail >>>> .com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11% > 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloo > dworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4417 (20090911) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4417 (20090911) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 02:07:22 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:07:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind Message-ID: <4aab0259.9513f30a.5c45.78b2@mx.google.com> ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2009) — The blind and visually impaired often rely on others to provide cues and information on navigating through their environments. The problem with this method is that it doesn't give them the tools to venture out on their own, says Dr. Orly Lahav of Tel Aviv University's School of Education and Porter School for Environmental Studies. To give navigational "sight" to the blind, Dr. Lahav has invented a new software tool to help the blind navigate through unfamiliar places. It is connected to an existing joystick, a 3-D haptic device, that interfaces with the user through the sense of touch. People can feel tension beneath their fingertips as a physical sensation through the joystick as they navigate around a virtual environment which they cannot see, only feel: the joystick stiffens when the user meets a virtual wall or barrier. The software can also be programmed to emit sounds — a cappuccino machine firing up in a virtual café, or phones ringing when the explorer walks by a reception desk. Exploring 3D virtual worlds based on maps of real-world environments, the blind are able to "feel out" streets, sidewalks and hallways with the joystick as they move the cursor like a white cane on the computer screen that they will never see. Before going out alone, the new solution gives them the control, confidence and ability to explore new streets making unknown spaces familiar. It allows people who can't see to make mental maps in their mind. Dr. Lahav's software takes physical information from our world and digitizes it for transfer to a computer, with which the user interacts using a mechanical device. Her hope is that the blind will be able to explore the virtual environment of a new neighborhood in the comfort of their homes before venturing out into the real world. A touchy-feely virtual white stick "This tool lets the blind 'touch' and 'hear' virtual objects and deepens their sense of space, distance and perspective," says Dr. Lahav. "They can 'feel' intersections, buildings, paths, and obstacles with the joystick, and even navigate inside a shopping mall or a museum like the Louvre in a virtual environment before they go out to explore on their own." The tool transmits textures to the fingers and can distinguish among surfaces like tiled floors, asphalt, sidewalks and grass. In theory, any unknown space, indoors or out, can be virtually pre-explored, says Dr. Lahav. The territory just needs to be mapped first — and with existing applications like GIS (geography information system), the information is already there. A new road to independence The tool, called the BlindAid, was recently unveiled at the "Virtual Rehabilitation 2009 International Conference," where Dr. Lahav demonstrated case studies of people using the tool at the Carroll Center for the Blind, a rehabilitation center in Newton, Massachusetts. There, a partially blind woman first explored the virtual environment of the center — as well as the campus and 10 other sites, including a four-story building. After just three or four sessions, the woman was able to effectively navigate and explore real-world target sites wearing a blindfold. The virtual system becomes a computerized "white cane" for the blind, says Dr. Lahav. "They get feedback from the device that lets them build a cognitive map, which they later apply in the real world. It's like a high-tech walking cane," she says. "Our tool lets people 'see' their environment in advance so they can walk in it for real at a later time." Today the blind and visually impaired are very limited in their movements, which necessarily influences their quality of life. This solution could help them find new options, like closer routes from train or bus stations to the safety of home. "Ultimately, it helps the blind determine their own paths and gives them the ability to take control of their lives," says Dr. Lahav, who first began this research at Tel Aviv University, under Prof. David Mioduser, where she now works. She then further developed it with her MIT colleagues Dr. Mandayam Srinivasan and Dr. David W. Schloerb. Best regards, Gianfranco Di Cosmo From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 03:12:03 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:12:03 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind Message-ID: <4aab1188.9713f30a.7351.fffffe0e@mx.google.com> I'm sending this again in case the first one didn't get through. this looks interesting. ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2009) — The blind and visually impaired often rely on others to provide cues and information on navigating through their environments. The problem with this method is that it doesn't give them the tools to venture out on their own, says Dr. Orly Lahav of Tel Aviv University's School of Education and Porter School for Environmental Studies. To give navigational "sight" to the blind, Dr. Lahav has invented a new software tool to help the blind navigate through unfamiliar places. It is connected to an existing joystick, a 3-D haptic device, that interfaces with the user through the sense of touch. People can feel tension beneath their fingertips as a physical sensation through the joystick as they navigate around a virtual environment which they cannot see, only feel: the joystick stiffens when the user meets a virtual wall or barrier. The software can also be programmed to emit sounds — a cappuccino machine firing up in a virtual café, or phones ringing when the explorer walks by a reception desk. Exploring 3D virtual worlds based on maps of real-world environments, the blind are able to "feel out" streets, sidewalks and hallways with the joystick as they move the cursor like a white cane on the computer screen that they will never see. Before going out alone, the new solution gives them the control, confidence and ability to explore new streets making unknown spaces familiar. It allows people who can't see to make mental maps in their mind. Dr. Lahav's software takes physical information from our world and digitizes it for transfer to a computer, with which the user interacts using a mechanical device. Her hope is that the blind will be able to explore the virtual environment of a new neighborhood in the comfort of their homes before venturing out into the real world. A touchy-feely virtual white stick "This tool lets the blind 'touch' and 'hear' virtual objects and deepens their sense of space, distance and perspective," says Dr. Lahav. "They can 'feel' intersections, buildings, paths, and obstacles with the joystick, and even navigate inside a shopping mall or a museum like the Louvre in a virtual environment before they go out to explore on their own." The tool transmits textures to the fingers and can distinguish among surfaces like tiled floors, asphalt, sidewalks and grass. In theory, any unknown space, indoors or out, can be virtually pre-explored, says Dr. Lahav. The territory just needs to be mapped first — and with existing applications like GIS (geography information system), the information is already there. A new road to independence The tool, called the BlindAid, was recently unveiled at the "Virtual Rehabilitation 2009 International Conference," where Dr. Lahav demonstrated case studies of people using the tool at the Carroll Center for the Blind, a rehabilitation center in Newton, Massachusetts. There, a partially blind woman first explored the virtual environment of the center — as well as the campus and 10 other sites, including a four-story building. After just three or four sessions, the woman was able to effectively navigate and explore real-world target sites wearing a blindfold. The virtual system becomes a computerized "white cane" for the blind, says Dr. Lahav. "They get feedback from the device that lets them build a cognitive map, which they later apply in the real world. It's like a high-tech walking cane," she says. "Our tool lets people 'see' their environment in advance so they can walk in it for real at a later time." Today the blind and visually impaired are very limited in their movements, which necessarily influences their quality of life. This solution could help them find new options, like closer routes from train or bus stations to the safety of home. "Ultimately, it helps the blind determine their own paths and gives them the ability to take control of their lives," says Dr. Lahav, who first began this research at Tel Aviv University, under Prof. David Mioduser, where she now works. She then further developed it with her MIT colleagues Dr. Mandayam Srinivasan and Dr. David W. Schloerb. From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 03:44:44 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:44:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind Message-ID: <4aab192b.9613f30a.7f99.fffff845@mx.google.com> Oone more time in case this didn't get throgh. it's not showing up in my sent items. ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2009) — The blind and visually impaired often rely on others to provide cues and information on navigating through their environments. The problem with this method is that it doesn't give them the tools to venture out on their own, says Dr. Orly Lahav of Tel Aviv University's School of Education and Porter School for Environmental Studies. To give navigational "sight" to the blind, Dr. Lahav has invented a new software tool to help the blind navigate through unfamiliar places. It is connected to an existing joystick, a 3-D haptic device, that interfaces with the user through the sense of touch. People can feel tension beneath their fingertips as a physical sensation through the joystick as they navigate around a virtual environment which they cannot see, only feel: the joystick stiffens when the user meets a virtual wall or barrier. The software can also be programmed to emit sounds — a cappuccino machine firing up in a virtual café, or phones ringing when the explorer walks by a reception desk. Exploring 3D virtual worlds based on maps of real-world environments, the blind are able to "feel out" streets, sidewalks and hallways with the joystick as they move the cursor like a white cane on the computer screen that they will never see. Before going out alone, the new solution gives them the control, confidence and ability to explore new streets making unknown spaces familiar. It allows people who can't see to make mental maps in their mind. Dr. Lahav's software takes physical information from our world and digitizes it for transfer to a computer, with which the user interacts using a mechanical device. Her hope is that the blind will be able to explore the virtual environment of a new neighborhood in the comfort of their homes before venturing out into the real world. A touchy-feely virtual white stick "This tool lets the blind 'touch' and 'hear' virtual objects and deepens their sense of space, distance and perspective," says Dr. Lahav. "They can 'feel' intersections, buildings, paths, and obstacles with the joystick, and even navigate inside a shopping mall or a museum like the Louvre in a virtual environment before they go out to explore on their own." The tool transmits textures to the fingers and can distinguish among surfaces like tiled floors, asphalt, sidewalks and grass. In theory, any unknown space, indoors or out, can be virtually pre-explored, says Dr. Lahav. The territory just needs to be mapped first — and with existing applications like GIS (geography information system), the information is already there. A new road to independence The tool, called the BlindAid, was recently unveiled at the "Virtual Rehabilitation 2009 International Conference," where Dr. Lahav demonstrated case studies of people using the tool at the Carroll Center for the Blind, a rehabilitation center in Newton, Massachusetts. There, a partially blind woman first explored the virtual environment of the center — as well as the campus and 10 other sites, including a four-story building. After just three or four sessions, the woman was able to effectively navigate and explore real-world target sites wearing a blindfold. The virtual system becomes a computerized "white cane" for the blind, says Dr. Lahav. "They get feedback from the device that lets them build a cognitive map, which they later apply in the real world. It's like a high-tech walking cane," she says. "Our tool lets people 'see' their environment in advance so they can walk in it for real at a later time." Today the blind and visually impaired are very limited in their movements, which necessarily influences their quality of life. This solution could help them find new options, like closer routes from train or bus stations to the safety of home. "Ultimately, it helps the blind determine their own paths and gives them the ability to take control of their lives," says Dr. Lahav, who first began this research at Tel Aviv University, under Prof. David Mioduser, where she now works. She then further developed it with her MIT colleagues Dr. Mandayam Srinivasan and Dr. David W. Schloerb. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat Sep 12 16:39:09 2009 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:39:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind References: <4aab192b.9613f30a.7f99.fffff845@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <459CB8AC05144226B4B30CD10ABB60C7@Ashley> It came through. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind Oone more time in case this didn't get throgh. it's not showing up in my sent items. ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2009) - The blind and visually impaired often rely on others to provide cues and information on navigating through their environments. The problem with this method is that it doesn't give them the tools to venture out on their own, says Dr. Orly Lahav of Tel Aviv University's School of Education and Porter School for Environmental Studies. To give navigational "sight" to the blind, Dr. Lahav has invented a new software tool to help the blind navigate through unfamiliar places. It is connected to an existing joystick, a 3-D haptic device, that interfaces with the user through the sense of touch. People can feel tension beneath their fingertips as a physical sensation through the joystick as they navigate around a virtual environment which they cannot see, only feel: the joystick stiffens when the user meets a virtual wall or barrier. The software can also be programmed to emit sounds - a cappuccino machine firing up in a virtual café, or phones ringing when the explorer walks by a reception desk. Exploring 3D virtual worlds based on maps of real-world environments, the blind are able to "feel out" streets, sidewalks and hallways with the joystick as they move the cursor like a white cane on the computer screen that they will never see. Before going out alone, the new solution gives them the control, confidence and ability to explore new streets making unknown spaces familiar. It allows people who can't see to make mental maps in their mind. Dr. Lahav's software takes physical information from our world and digitizes it for transfer to a computer, with which the user interacts using a mechanical device. Her hope is that the blind will be able to explore the virtual environment of a new neighborhood in the comfort of their homes before venturing out into the real world. A touchy-feely virtual white stick "This tool lets the blind 'touch' and 'hear' virtual objects and deepens their sense of space, distance and perspective," says Dr. Lahav. "They can 'feel' intersections, buildings, paths, and obstacles with the joystick, and even navigate inside a shopping mall or a museum like the Louvre in a virtual environment before they go out to explore on their own." The tool transmits textures to the fingers and can distinguish among surfaces like tiled floors, asphalt, sidewalks and grass. In theory, any unknown space, indoors or out, can be virtually pre-explored, says Dr. Lahav. The territory just needs to be mapped first - and with existing applications like GIS (geography information system), the information is already there. A new road to independence The tool, called the BlindAid, was recently unveiled at the "Virtual Rehabilitation 2009 International Conference," where Dr. Lahav demonstrated case studies of people using the tool at the Carroll Center for the Blind, a rehabilitation center in Newton, Massachusetts. There, a partially blind woman first explored the virtual environment of the center - as well as the campus and 10 other sites, including a four-story building. After just three or four sessions, the woman was able to effectively navigate and explore real-world target sites wearing a blindfold. The virtual system becomes a computerized "white cane" for the blind, says Dr. Lahav. "They get feedback from the device that lets them build a cognitive map, which they later apply in the real world. It's like a high-tech walking cane," she says. "Our tool lets people 'see' their environment in advance so they can walk in it for real at a later time." Today the blind and visually impaired are very limited in their movements, which necessarily influences their quality of life. This solution could help them find new options, like closer routes from train or bus stations to the safety of home. "Ultimately, it helps the blind determine their own paths and gives them the ability to take control of their lives," says Dr. Lahav, who first began this research at Tel Aviv University, under Prof. David Mioduser, where she now works. She then further developed it with her MIT colleagues Dr. Mandayam Srinivasan and Dr. David W. Schloerb. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4417 (20090911) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu Sat Sep 12 19:13:36 2009 From: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu (Philip So) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:13:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing new york association of blind students Message-ID: Hi Jess, Thanks for setting up the Yahoo group. I have also already emailed the person who used to run the student division in New York to see if she has email addresses of former members and other students. The more people we have in our new discussion group, the more resourceful it will become. I will also ask the disability offices in universities in the New York City area, such as NYU, Columbia, CUNY, Hofstra, etc. to inform their blind and visually impaired students about this new group. I will let you know the list of universities I contact. Thanks. Best, Philip From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat Sep 12 19:58:11 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan Message-ID: <103924.51589.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone! It's been a really long time sicne I've written, but I had a question that I thought would interest the list in general. I may soon be traveling to Taiwan to teach English in a high school setting for a year (depends on the interview on Oct. 2, etc), but I was wondering if anyone has any information on how blind people are regarded in Taiwan? So far I ahve not revealed the blindness; I ahve been granted an interview. I thought it may be best for my references to bring up the matter, since it may be more well-regarded coming from a third-party, but then again if they have specific questions my references may not be the best ones to answer such a question. My dad, in particular, feels pretty strongly that it is something that I should have mentioend before now, but I tend to say that that would simply give them reason to deny me in order to make the hiring process easier. I am dealing with facts and they are dealing with fear, as I like to say. Alright, thanks! Help is aprpeciated! Also, thoughts on the presence/lack of presence of Chinese Braille is appreciated, and where I could hope to get a handle on it as I study the spoken language. Harry From kramc11 at gmail.com Sat Sep 12 22:05:06 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:05:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <9D4768666AEC46D983F3094BDBB36311@SonyPC> Due to all the interest over the topic of whether a blind person can successfully use a firearm I have started this group. Group name: Blindshooting Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blindshooting Group email: blindshooting at yahoogroups.com The blind shooting sports group is to discuss the sport of recreational shooting. We add a small twist to the standard plinking at cans and targets. We can't see the target we are shooting at. We are the blind marksmen of America. From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Sat Sep 12 22:21:58 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:21:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan In-Reply-To: <103924.51589.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <103924.51589.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca33f7$7230a610$5691f230$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> I think in any culture you'll find the people that will help you too much, and the people that think you can't do anything so don't let you try. And of course the few who have the same expectations for you as they would anyone else. It is fair to say that in North America blind people are regarded for the most part as capable, but whether or not we are treated that way is questionable. Sorry; I know that really doesn't help at all. As for Chinese Braille (would it be Cantonese in Taiwan?) I have been looking for the same thing but haven't found anything yet. The following link might be worth looking at though. It gives a run-down on Chinese Braille symbols, but a knowledge of the language itself helps. As for disclosure, I think you did the right thing as long as you have full confidence you could do most of the tasks they throw at you. http://www.braille.ch/pschin-e.htm Have fun, Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Harry Hogue Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan Hello everyone! It's been a really long time sicne I've written, but I had a question that I thought would interest the list in general. I may soon be traveling to Taiwan to teach English in a high school setting for a year (depends on the interview on Oct. 2, etc), but I was wondering if anyone has any information on how blind people are regarded in Taiwan? So far I ahve not revealed the blindness; I ahve been granted an interview. I thought it may be best for my references to bring up the matter, since it may be more well-regarded coming from a third-party, but then again if they have specific questions my references may not be the best ones to answer such a question. My dad, in particular, feels pretty strongly that it is something that I should have mentioend before now, but I tend to say that that would simply give them reason to deny me in order to make the hiring process easier. I am dealing with facts and they are dealing with fear, as I like to say. Alright, thanks! Help is aprpeciated! Also, thoughts on the presence/lack of presence of Chinese Braille is appreciated, and where I could hope to get a handle on it as I study the spoken language. Harry _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Sep 12 22:45:24 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:45:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College Students References: Message-ID: <006401ca33fa$b7e0bd00$0401a8c0@Serene> This is really awesome! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:42 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Textbooks for disabled, Particularly College Students > >> >> >> From >> http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/08/28/access >> >> >> >> >> >>Textbooks for the Disabled >> >> >> >>August 28, 2009 >> >>The Association of American Publishers and the University of Georgia this >>week unveiled an electronic database aimed at making it easier for blind, >>dyslexic and otherwise impaired college students to get specialized >>textbooks in time for classes. >> >>The database, called AccessText, is designed >>to centralize the process by which electronic versions of textbooks are >>requested by colleges and supplied by publishers. Experts say it will >>allow disabled students to get their textbooks more efficiently, help >>colleges save money and avoid lawsuits, and protect publishers' >>copyrights. >> >>For students whose disabilities prevent them from using traditional texts, >>the normally straightforward task of acquiring books for their courses can >>be tedious and frustrating. Federal law requires that colleges and >>universities provide disabled students equal access to educational >>materials, but this is often easier said than done. College officials have >>to track down and contact the publisher of every textbook that each of its >>disabled students buys and request an electronic copy. If such a copy >>exists -- the likelihood shrinks the older the book and the smaller the >>publisher -- college officials still have to convert the file to a format >>that can be read by whatever reading aid the student uses. If not, the >>college has to wait, sometimes weeks, to obtain permission to scan the >>book and create its own electronic version. >> >>Once a college has an electronic copy, converting to a readable format can >>be another complex process, says Sean Keegan, associate director of >>assistive technology at Stanford University. Math and science texts often >>arrive as scanned pages, and cannot always be easily read by the >>character-recognition software the university uses to turn them into >>standard electronic files, Keegan says. "That can take a longer amount of >>time to process that material internally and turn it around and give that >>to the student efficiently," he says. >> >>Meanwhile, delays in the process can make it impossible for disabled >>students to prepare for and participate in classes. "Students need to have >>a book in time so they can do the assigned reading and study for tests and >>papers," says Gaeir Dietrich, interim director of high-tech training for >>the California Community Colleges system. "So if the book doesn't come >>until the term has been in session for three or four weeks, that puts that >>student very far behind." Some students have sued colleges over such >>delays, she says. >> >>AccessText aims to mitigate these woes by streamlining the request and >>delivery process, says Ed McCoyd, executive director for accessibility >>affairs at AAP. >> >>"There's a lot of transactional friction taking place currently," says >>McCoyd. "What AccessText is trying to do is take some of that out of the >>transaction by having parties agree to streamlined rules up front." >> >>Having colleges submit requests using the AccessText portal should >>eliminate the need for the publishers to require endless paperwork with >>each request to protect its copyrights, McCoyd says. Under the system, the >>copyright protection agreements can be handled once, during registration, >>and the requester's bona fides can be verified by a log-in. >> >>Currently, colleges that get tired of waiting for publishers to process >>the paperwork and procure an electronic copy of a text sometimes just scan >>a text themselves to try to satisfy the needs of disabled students in a >>timely fashion, says Dietrich. >> >>AccessText is also set up to eliminate the need for different colleges to >>convert the same text to a readable format once it is acquired. Currently >>"numerous schools could be doing the exact same thing, converting the same >>text," says Bruce Hildebrand, executive director for higher education at >>the publishers' association. Under the new system, "if one school has >>already spent the time and the money to convert a file to a format, they >>could advise the AccessText network, which could then make the info >>available that it was still available in that format, and that school >>could share it with another school" -- thereby sparing those colleges the >>time and resources it would have used to convert the file themselves, he >>says. >> >>Eight major publishing houses paid a total of just under $1 million to >>develop the AccessText network and maintain it through its beta phase, >>which will end next July. From then on, it will sustain itself by billing >>member colleges between $375 and $500 annually, depending on size. >> >>Dietrich notes that community colleges might not benefit from the >>AccessText network as much as other institutions, since "we have a lot >>more vocational classes and basic-skills classes, and a lot of those books >>don't come through those big publishers, they come through specialized >>publishers," she says. "It doesn't solve that part of the problem for us." >> >>The network includes 92 percent of all college textbook publishers and is >>recruiting even more, according to AAP officials. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 02:04:54 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:04:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] O.t registering Sound taxi Message-ID: <4aac5346.9513f30a.06c8.ffff995d@mx.google.com> Hello. This might be a bit off topic so fee free to write me off list. I just bought the latest sound taxi and I can't for the life of me figure out how to register it. The web page comes up but how do I put in the info they gave me? The buy button I do see, but it flashes by to quickly to hit the enter licence code button. Thanks. I have tried contacting support with no luck. Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. From pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu Sun Sep 13 02:59:30 2009 From: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu (Philip So) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:59:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan Message-ID: Harry, I will email you off list. Hopefully I can help a little bit even though I am not from Taiwan. Philip From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 05:49:03 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <334735.77547.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sounds great. Tanks, Phillip. Harry --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Philip So wrote: > From: Philip So > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taiwan > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:59 PM > Harry, > > I will email you off list.  Hopefully I can help a > little bit even > though I am not from Taiwan. > > Philip > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Sep 13 15:37:01 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:37:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan References: <103924.51589.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011e01ca3488$09c3bd60$0401a8c0@Serene> Hi Harry I don't have any info for you, but way to go! I hope it works out! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan > Hello everyone! > > It's been a really long time sicne I've written, but I had a question that > I thought would interest the list in general. I may soon be traveling to > Taiwan to teach English in a high school setting for a year (depends on > the interview on Oct. 2, etc), but I was wondering if anyone has any > information on how blind people are regarded in Taiwan? So far I ahve not > revealed the blindness; I ahve been granted an interview. I thought it > may be best for my references to bring up the matter, since it may be more > well-regarded coming from a third-party, but then again if they have > specific questions my references may not be the best ones to answer such a > question. My dad, in particular, feels pretty strongly that it is > something that I should have mentioend before now, but I tend to say that > that would simply give them reason to deny me in order to make the hiring > process easier. I am dealing with facts and they are dealing with fear, > as I like to say. > Alright, thanks! > > Help is aprpeciated! Also, thoughts on the presence/lack of presence of > Chinese Braille is appreciated, and where I could hope to get a handle on > it as I study the spoken language. > > Harry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 17:53:15 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:53:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind In-Reply-To: <459CB8AC05144226B4B30CD10ABB60C7@Ashley> Message-ID: <4aad3193.9513f30a.4d75.63ee@mx.google.com> Yep. I like the consept. I try and emagine a rout as someone is telling me the directions but with bad directions it's kind of hard to do that. This would make it much easier. Andmaybe thte centers can encorrate it with there mobility. Give someone a rout or show them a hard consept like merging streets witht hi thing and then have them go out and do the travel lesson for real. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 9:39 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind It came through. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:44 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Virtual Maps For The Blind Oone more time in case this didn't get throgh. it's not showing up in my sent items. ScienceDaily (Sep. 10, 2009) - The blind and visually impaired often rely on others to provide cues and information on navigating through their environments. The problem with this method is that it doesn't give them the tools to venture out on their own, says Dr. Orly Lahav of Tel Aviv University's School of Education and Porter School for Environmental Studies. To give navigational "sight" to the blind, Dr. Lahav has invented a new software tool to help the blind navigate through unfamiliar places. It is connected to an existing joystick, a 3-D haptic device, that interfaces with the user through the sense of touch. People can feel tension beneath their fingertips as a physical sensation through the joystick as they navigate around a virtual environment which they cannot see, only feel: the joystick stiffens when the user meets a virtual wall or barrier. The software can also be programmed to emit sounds - a cappuccino machine firing up in a virtual café, or phones ringing when the explorer walks by a reception desk. Exploring 3D virtual worlds based on maps of real-world environments, the blind are able to "feel out" streets, sidewalks and hallways with the joystick as they move the cursor like a white cane on the computer screen that they will never see. Before going out alone, the new solution gives them the control, confidence and ability to explore new streets making unknown spaces familiar. It allows people who can't see to make mental maps in their mind. Dr. Lahav's software takes physical information from our world and digitizes it for transfer to a computer, with which the user interacts using a mechanical device. Her hope is that the blind will be able to explore the virtual environment of a new neighborhood in the comfort of their homes before venturing out into the real world. A touchy-feely virtual white stick "This tool lets the blind 'touch' and 'hear' virtual objects and deepens their sense of space, distance and perspective," says Dr. Lahav. "They can 'feel' intersections, buildings, paths, and obstacles with the joystick, and even navigate inside a shopping mall or a museum like the Louvre in a virtual environment before they go out to explore on their own." The tool transmits textures to the fingers and can distinguish among surfaces like tiled floors, asphalt, sidewalks and grass. In theory, any unknown space, indoors or out, can be virtually pre-explored, says Dr. Lahav. The territory just needs to be mapped first - and with existing applications like GIS (geography information system), the information is already there. A new road to independence The tool, called the BlindAid, was recently unveiled at the "Virtual Rehabilitation 2009 International Conference," where Dr. Lahav demonstrated case studies of people using the tool at the Carroll Center for the Blind, a rehabilitation center in Newton, Massachusetts. There, a partially blind woman first explored the virtual environment of the center - as well as the campus and 10 other sites, including a four-story building. After just three or four sessions, the woman was able to effectively navigate and explore real-world target sites wearing a blindfold. The virtual system becomes a computerized "white cane" for the blind, says Dr. Lahav. "They get feedback from the device that lets them build a cognitive map, which they later apply in the real world. It's like a high-tech walking cane," she says. "Our tool lets people 'see' their environment in advance so they can walk in it for real at a later time." Today the blind and visually impaired are very limited in their movements, which necessarily influences their quality of life. This solution could help them find new options, like closer routes from train or bus stations to the safety of home. "Ultimately, it helps the blind determine their own paths and gives them the ability to take control of their lives," says Dr. Lahav, who first began this research at Tel Aviv University, under Prof. David Mioduser, where she now works. She then further developed it with her MIT colleagues Dr. Mandayam Srinivasan and Dr. David W. Schloerb. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4417 (20090911) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 17:55:35 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:55:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Djd Invasion Returns To New York At A Special Time Tonight Message-ID: Hi All! You heard it right folks! I am back in New York, and tonight marks the first Djd Invasion to be aired for Radio360 live from the comforts of where the Djd Invasion all began..From my comfortable studios in New York! Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will feature Crazy Chris co hosting for part of the night SOme upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for good measure And most importantly.... Your calls and/or requests And more... Speaking of calls and requests... You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the address live at radio360.us or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address radio360usa or by phone at 516-717-4425 It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be celebrating the return to New York in style! So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to be connected to the program. I hope to see you awesome people there! Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager http://www.radio360.us From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun Sep 13 20:32:32 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan In-Reply-To: <011e01ca3488$09c3bd60$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <52862.69161.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks! --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Serena wrote: > From: Serena > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taiwan > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:37 AM > Hi Harry > > I don't have any info for you, but way to go!  I hope > it works out! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 3:58 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Taiwan > > > > Hello everyone! > > > > It's been a really long time sicne I've written, but I > had a question that I thought would interest the list in > general.  I may soon be traveling to Taiwan to teach > English in a high school setting for a year (depends on the > interview on Oct. 2, etc), but I was wondering if anyone has > any information on how blind people are regarded in > Taiwan?  So far I ahve not revealed the blindness; I > ahve been granted an interview.  I thought it may be > best for my references to bring up the matter, since it may > be more well-regarded coming from a third-party, but then > again if they have specific questions my references may not > be the best ones to answer such a question.  My dad, in > particular, feels pretty strongly that it is something that > I should have mentioend before now, but I tend to say that > that would simply give them reason to deny me in order to > make the hiring process easier.  I am dealing with > facts and they are dealing with fear, as I like to say. > > Alright, thanks! > > > > Help is aprpeciated!  Also, thoughts on the > presence/lack of presence of Chinese Braille is appreciated, > and where I could hope to get a handle on it as I study the > spoken language. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Sep 13 23:07:56 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:07:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of LG NV3 Message-ID: <001001ca34c7$08279af0$0401a8c0@Serene> Hi guys, I need to get a new cell and was looking at the LG nV3. How accessible is it? I saw on the web that it has voice commands, but Verizon's site didn't mention verbally identifying the person who's calling. E.G., if a friend whose number I have in my contacts list is calling, will the LG enV3 announce that this friend is calling? Thanks, Serena From jty727 at gmail.com Sun Sep 13 23:31:18 2009 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:31:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] accessibility of LG NV3 In-Reply-To: <001001ca34c7$08279af0$0401a8c0@Serene> References: <001001ca34c7$08279af0$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <54d8179e0909131631y2e084787sad8ce70fa00fd495@mail.gmail.com> Hey Serena! My name is Justin Young and I also have a verizon phone. I found it can be accessible as you want it to be. If it has voice command it will work. You can go to sound settings and once in it go to voice commands in that. Once there go to Prompts and then go to Mode. Once in mode ya can go to Readout and that should read everything. Also, if you are just looking for the Caller ID part you can do the same thing, but one different step. Remember the part when I talked prompts? Well, there is only one other option which says Call Alerts once in that go to Caller ID + Ring and that is how you get just the Caller ID part. It tells ya who is calling, texting, or sendin any other kind of message. Hope this helps ya! Justin On 9/13/09, Serena wrote: > Hi guys, > > I need to get a new cell and was looking at the LG nV3. How accessible is > it? I saw on the web that it has voice commands, but Verizon's site didn't > mention verbally identifying the person who's calling. E.G., if a friend > whose number I have in my contacts list is calling, will the LG enV3 > announce that this friend is calling? > > Thanks, > Serena > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 01:09:41 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:09:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Suit: Ban on service animals violates Fair Housing Act. Message-ID: <4aad97d5.171bf30a.03a7.ffffcbb3@mx.google.com> http://www.newsday. com/columnists/other-columnists/suit-lindenhurst- apartments-unlawfully-ban-service-animals-1.1436217Suit: Ban on service animals violates Fair Housing Act. A Lindenhurst apartment complex has violated the Fair Housing Act by excluding disabled people with service animals from renting, the federal government charged in a lawsuit released Thursday. On three separate occasions, according to the federal complaint, fair housing investigators from Long Island Housing Services in Bohemia posing as would-be renters were rejected when they told managers at Sunrise Villas in Lindenhurst they needed service dogs. In one case, the investigator said a dog was needed to help with a diabetic condition, and in another an epileptic condition was cited. "On each occasion, the testers were told that the development had a strict 'no pets' rule and that the complex would not rent to individuals with service animals," the government said. Sunrise Villas, a 100-unit complex on Leonard Court, is owned by Sunrise Villas Llc. The lawsuit also names the manager and assistant manager as defendants. Two messages left at the complex seeking comment were not returned, and a lawyer for Sunrise Villas also did not return two calls. Under federal law, landlords are required to make "accommodations" for the disabled. Sunrise managers, according to the lawsuit, told one of the test applicants they would permit guide dogs for the blind, but no other service animals. Trained service dogs can provide early warnings to diabetics and epileptics that allow them to take medication or seek help, said Michelle Sanantonio, director of Long Island Housing Services, the fair housing advocacy group that developed the case. She said federal law also recognizes chronic depression as a disability that can require apartments to permit a service animal. "There is a greater acceptance of blindness as a disability requiring a service animal," she said. "But there are a wide array of other conditions that can benefit from a service animal." The testing at Sunrise was prompted by a complaint by a disabled applicant who was denied housing, Sanantonio said. She said "no-pets" discrimination against the disabled was "widespread" on Long Island. The federal lawsuit announced by Brooklyn U.S. Attorney Benton Campbell seeks an injunction requiring the complex to alter its practices, damages for persons who were the victims of discrimination, and civil penalties. "Persons with disabilities are entitled to the protections of the Fair Housing Act," said Campbell in a statement. "This includes the right of individuals who require service animals to be able to rent apartments in the same manner as individuals without disabilities." "All knowledge, the totality of all questions and answers, is contained in the dog." - Franz Kafka - Investigations of the dog. From bcsarah.fan at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 14:50:17 2009 From: bcsarah.fan at gmail.com (Patricia) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 07:50:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] reading e-books on net library Message-ID: Hi everyone: I was wondering if anyone has ever been successful reading books on netlibrary. My French course has an e-book available on netlibrary that I have to access, but it doesn't seem accessible to me as a JAWS user. I was able to search for the book, find it and go to view book online, and when I did that a new window opened called "online reader" with a PDF embedded and JAWS said "alert empty document - open parent document button" which I knew meant that this book was an image. I proceeded to save what I thought was the book, open it in Kurzweil and convert it to text, only to find that what I had actually converted was the front cover only. I then asked for sighted assistance and found out that yes, indeed the whole book is there, but that you can only scroll through it one page at a time which i couldn't seem to get to work either. I did a Google search and found a site that talks about reading e-books with a screen reader, but this is using the Palm Reader, and I am not sure if this applies to books on netlibrary. Any help on this would be much appreciated. Patricia From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 15:01:23 2009 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:01:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association Message-ID: Hi all, Just in case this has not yet been sent out, Every Third Wednesday of the month, the NFB meets at Selis Manor, 135 West 23rd St. Between 6th and 7th avenues in Manhattan from 6 to about 7:30 pm. For those who are in the city and can attend, swing by next Wednesday the 16th, and we can discuss this year’s goals for the student association after the meeting is over. Hope to see you there, Alex (917) 532-7439 From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 15:21:42 2009 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:21:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SPSS 17and NABS division handbook Message-ID: Hi all, I have two questions. 1. Has anyone had success running SPSS 17 and JAWS 10? If so, how smoothly did SPSS run and how accessible is it? Were there any steps in particular which were taken in order to get the two programs to work well together? I’ve tried SPSS 17 on 3 different computers, all specifically set up to run it along with JAWS and have had no luck. I would like to know the same for ZoomText users, specifically those who use it along with speech. 2. Does anyone have a copy of the NABS Division Handbook? There is a link to it here at http://www.nabslink.org/about/campus_orgs.shtml But the page is under construction. Thanks Alex From JFreeh at nfb.org Mon Sep 14 16:29:57 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:29:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind and Motorola to Cooperate on Making Cell Phones Accessible to the Blind Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Jennifer Erickson Motorola, Inc. (847) 435-5320 Jennifer.erickson at motorola.com National Federation of the Blind and Motorola to Cooperate on Making Cell Phones Accessible to the Blind Baltimore, Maryland and Libertyville, Illinois (September 14, 2009): The National Federation of the Blind, the nation's oldest and largest organization of blind people and the leading advocate for making mainstream devices accessible to the blind, and Motorola Inc., a leading manufacturer of cell phones and other mobile communications devices, announced today that they have entered into a cooperation agreement to promote technologies that improve the accessibility of cell phones to blind consumers. Certain future Motorola cell phones will provide verbal readouts of information such as the time and date, battery level, signal strength, user's phone number, caller ID information for incoming calls, missed and received calls, and voice mail alerts. Blind users will also be able to take advantage of verbal readouts and voice-command features for ring tone status, inputting and accessing contacts, and various other settings. Motorola expects these cell phones to be available in 2010. The parties have also agreed to work together to make additional phones and features accessible to blind users. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "In an age where productivity and success increasingly depend on access to mobile technology such as cellular telephones, it is critical that blind Americans have equal access to today's cell phones through user interfaces that do not require vision. The National Federation of the Blind appreciates Motorola's commitment to making the features of its cell phone products accessible to blind users without the need for third-party software, and we look forward to working together with Motorola to make future improvements to the accessibility of telecommunication technology." ### From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 17:35:19 2009 From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:35:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] For sale: BrailleNote PK Message-ID: For sale: BrailleNote PK,running Keysoft 7.2. Comes with original cables, carrying case, print manual, and software. Owner doesn't have the original box anymore. I've verified that Braille display is in good working order. In fact, it feels almost like a new display, even though the unit's about two years old. Asking $1500 or best offer, call 503-610-8709 or email me at carter.tjoseph at gmail.com. Joseph -- How many children in America are not taught how to read? If they are blind, the answer is 90%--more than 52,000 children! Find out how you can help: http://www.braille.org/ From septembergirl95 at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 17:50:54 2009 From: septembergirl95 at gmail.com (Lucy Cox) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:50:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Alex, After you have this meeting, can you give me an idea of what you discuss and any decisions you make? Living in Syracuse, well, I won't make the meeting. *laugh* Btw, are you aware of this email list on Yahoo that someone started for New York Association of Blind Students? There have only been a few posts so far. Take care, Lucy septembergirl95 at gmail.com A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Castillo" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:01 AM Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association Hi all, Just in case this has not yet been sent out, Every Third Wednesday of the month, the NFB meets at Selis Manor, 135 West 23rd St. Between 6th and 7th avenues in Manhattan from 6 to about 7:30 pm. For those who are in the city and can attend, swing by next Wednesday the 16th, and we can discuss this year’s goals for the student association after the meeting is over. Hope to see you there, Alex (917) 532-7439 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/septembergirl95%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon Sep 14 19:05:41 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:05:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association References: Message-ID: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or anything like that, contact me at djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >From David ***** If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio station, and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out the station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're able to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and more! To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at http://www.radio360.us Follow us on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa or add us to your MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From guitargirl89 at windstream.net Mon Sep 14 20:46:42 2009 From: guitargirl89 at windstream.net (stacy timberlake) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:46:42 -0000 Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help In-Reply-To: <4804d1140908251157k6a4c0075rec050d0e287aa3cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <4804d1140908251157k6a4c0075rec050d0e287aa3cd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5361CC2320DE411E971B4ECB49A4DCB6@StacyPC> I just use Adobe--Maybe the new version works better because I haven't had any problems. Good luck! Stacy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cumbiambera2005" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help > hello nabsters, > I am needing some help. This year, one of my "accessible" textbooks is > going to be in PDF format. Does anyone know of an accessible program > that I might be able to get a hold of that will convert this to a text > file, preferrably something that is not going to cost me? I am not > sure how well Adobe works with jaws, but from my past experience with > it, I haven't found it very helpful. Does anyone know how this might > work? Obviously I will need access to my textbook, so any help would > be greatly appreciated. Thanks, > Ashley > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/guitargirl89%40windstream.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: 08/25/09 18:07:00 From jmassay1 at cox.net Mon Sep 14 21:26:43 2009 From: jmassay1 at cox.net (JMassay) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:26:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] SPSs and Jaws Message-ID: I just found a PDF file with changes to make to Jaws and a computer to run SPSS for accessibility. I have not yet tried it out but google SPSS and accessibility, it will bring this PDF up in a heading. Good luck and let everyone know if it works. Sorry I haven't had time to do it this semester. Jeannie From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 00:13:07 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:13:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> Message-ID: <85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> David, Here is a link to subscribe to an email list that I started. NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dunphy" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or > anything like that, contact me at > djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >>From David > > ***** > If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio station, > and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out the > station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called > Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're able > to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and > more! > To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at > http://www.radio360.us > Follow us on twitter at > http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa > or add us to your MySpace at > http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa > Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 00:16:19 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:16:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1C842E987D51437E9F5C8ABDF0F55333@Jessica> Lucy, That was me. And, I just started it over the weekend. It will take a bit of time for it to grow. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucy Cox" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association Hi Alex, After you have this meeting, can you give me an idea of what you discuss and any decisions you make? Living in Syracuse, well, I won't make the meeting. *laugh* Btw, are you aware of this email list on Yahoo that someone started for New York Association of Blind Students? There have only been a few posts so far. Take care, Lucy septembergirl95 at gmail.com A true friend is someone who thinks that you are a good egg even though he knows that you are slightly cracked. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Castillo" To: Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:01 AM Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association Hi all, Just in case this has not yet been sent out, Every Third Wednesday of the month, the NFB meets at Selis Manor, 135 West 23rd St. Between 6th and 7th avenues in Manhattan from 6 to about 7:30 pm. For those who are in the city and can attend, swing by next Wednesday the 16th, and we can discuss this year�s goals for the student association after the meeting is over. Hope to see you there, Alex (917) 532-7439 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/septembergirl95%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 00:41:31 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:41:31 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help References: <4804d1140908251157k6a4c0075rec050d0e287aa3cd@mail.gmail.com> <5361CC2320DE411E971B4ECB49A4DCB6@StacyPC> Message-ID: <91CB9203C160441CA26A9B5FE002D576@teal6e6857f643> ok ashley. This semester i am working with txtbooks from the publishers which are in text format or ABC=XIP files. Adobe and jaws 10 work fine since jaws 10 can read PDF. Also if you have a stream or other book reader that will read text you are set. I have found though that it is much easier to keep the text document on the computer and manually find what you are looking for. Also HEY Stacey...I miss you so call me sometime! -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "stacy timberlake" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Textbook Help >I just use Adobe--Maybe the new version works better because I haven't had >any problems. > Good luck! > Stacy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cumbiambera2005" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:57 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help > > >> hello nabsters, >> I am needing some help. This year, one of my "accessible" textbooks is >> going to be in PDF format. Does anyone know of an accessible program >> that I might be able to get a hold of that will convert this to a text >> file, preferrably something that is not going to cost me? I am not >> sure how well Adobe works with jaws, but from my past experience with >> it, I haven't found it very helpful. Does anyone know how this might >> work? Obviously I will need access to my textbook, so any help would >> be greatly appreciated. Thanks, >> Ashley >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/guitargirl89%40windstream.net > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: 08/25/09 > 18:07:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 00:55:38 2009 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:55:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> <85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> Message-ID: <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> Jess! Do ya have to have a Yahoo email account to join this group? On 9/14/09, Jess wrote: > David, > Here is a link to subscribe to an email list that I started. > NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Dunphy" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > > >> I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or >> anything like that, contact me at >> djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >>>From David >> >> ***** >> If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio station, >> >> and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out the >> >> station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called >> Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're able >> >> to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and >> more! >> To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at >> http://www.radio360.us >> Follow us on twitter at >> http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa >> or add us to your MySpace at >> http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa >> Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From trev.saunders at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 02:08:35 2009 From: trev.saunders at gmail.com (Trevor Saunders) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:08:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> <85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: no From newmanrl at cox.net Tue Sep 15 02:20:55 2009 From: newmanrl at cox.net (Robert Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:20:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] The NFB Where The Blind Work Needs Auto Industry Job Descriptions Message-ID: The NFB Where The Blind Work Needs Auto Industry Job Descriptions We need descriptions of jobs that are found within the field of the auto industry (manufacturing positions, design, sales, mechanic, auto body, parts, management, etc) and of how you do the job. Your description will be added to the NFB's "Where The Blind work," a new and ever growing resource of career descriptions and how the blind compete within them. This is a great resource to assist youth to plan for future employment and for the adult who is looking to change jobs and/or careers. Your description must follow the below five question format: When completed please email them to me at newmanrl at cox.net (A * indicates a required field): 1. * Name, * Industry in which you work, * Job title, Address 1, Address 2, City, State, Zip Code, Phone number, E-mail, * 2. Please explain to us what any worker would do on this job (specialized blindness alternatives will appear below). * 3. Please tell us the cause of your blindness. Then, let us know about the alternative methods and/or techniques you use to perform your job. * 4. Please let us know of any required special training, education, certificates, experience, etc. needed for this job. * 5. Please tell us about anyone or anything that aided you to be successful. (A joint project between the Jernigan Institute and the NFB Writers' Division; for all people) Visit the "Where The Blind Work" at- http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Blind_Work.asp?SnID=28992349 President NFB Writers' Division Robert Leslie Newman Email- newmanrl at cox.net Division Website- Http://www.nfb-writers-division.org From newmanrl at cox.net Tue Sep 15 02:48:33 2009 From: newmanrl at cox.net (Robert Newman) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:48:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #149- Framing Blindness Message-ID: NABS members RE: Framing Blindness Here is a very important principle that you need to be aware of or --- How do you frame, phrase your presentation of yourself or blindness? Depending upon how you do it, will be seen in the positive or negative response you get. If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows. Recall that I collect responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and learn from and that URL is- Http://thoughtprovoker.info If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER 149 Framing Blindness "sir, I'm looking for a job. I heard you have several openings. As you can see," the young blind man held up his white cane in emphasis as he addressed the business owner, "I am blind and because of it, I'm having a very tough time getting employment. Did you know that nearly 80% of the blind are unemployed? For centuries, blindness has been viewed as the worst handicap a human can have, but it is all a lie, a great misunderstanding. With the right tools," raising his cane again, "a cane or dog guide, and with Braille or for some, large print and other blindness skills, we can do most jobs, just as good as a sighted person. But we don't usually get a chance to prove it." lifting the cane for a third time. "Usually people can't see past this and we get pity, doubting thoughts and seldom an equal chance. Would you give me a try in one of your job openings?" "No, I won't. And I'm going to tell you why." The business owner, Ernest tone in his voice, palms flat on the counter top, leaned forward. "I listened to you, heard every word, processed the difficulties you laid out concerning the non-acceptance and unemployment of the blind. But think about how you framed your story and what you set me up to think. You walked in, gave me the woes about being blind, hit me with 5 negatives, to one positive and you want me to think you've got what I'm looking for in an employee?" Slapping a palm on the counter top in emphasis. "But this is what I'll consider --- I want you to go back outside, take a minute to think about how you need to present yourself to me, then come back in and try your spiel again. But concentrate on telling what you can do for me." Surprised at the businessman's response, the blind guy knotted, accepting the challenge, turned and using the best cane technique he had, exited the building. Minutes later he came back in. "sir, you are looking to hire a customer service representative. I believe I have the skills to fill the position." Indicating the cane in his hand, "As you can see, I am blind and if you would hear me out, I would like to explain how I feel I can make this a success." Getting a go-ahead sound, he continued. "Your job add listed a requirement of competency with a PC. I use a PC every day. And how it works for me, I use what is called screen reading software, it's voice output. This software will usually work with most computer applications. And if we find that it doesn't work right out of the box with your companies system, we could call my state rehab counselor and she can have her IT specialist come in and evaluate your system and tweak my special software to work with yours. Second, you require customer service experience and though I haven't been paid to perform that duty, I've had a couple of volunteer positions in which customer service was part of my responsibilities." "The answer is still no. Better, but still not good enough. I now know that you have abilities, special tools and some backup to aid you if you need technical assistance. However, though I'm feeling there is employment potential, but it appears to come with an equal weight of potential problems that I would have to overcome. So no again. Go back out, rethink and come back in and convince me that you are the best person for the job." Not fully surprised, though somewhat dismayed, yet encouraged, the blind guy knotted, turned and exited the building. Minutes later he came back in. "Sir," reaching out his right hand to give a shake in greeting, "my name is John. You have an opening for a customer service rep, it is one of my best skills and I want to talk to you about hiring me for the job. I'm a very competent PC user. I have references I will present that will vouch for my ability and reliability to be at work every day, on time and that I always give 110% to the job. May I talk to you about your position?" "Yes, let's talk," responded the business owner. Robert Leslie Newman Email- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER Website- Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Tue Sep 15 03:49:31 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:49:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #149- Framing Blindness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01ca35b7$8967f7e0$9c37e7a0$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> This is the best one in awhile. I wish all blind people used the third method. I wish that all employers would give us the chance to. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Newman Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:49 PM To: nfbnabs Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #149- Framing Blindness NABS members RE: Framing Blindness Here is a very important principle that you need to be aware of or --- How do you frame, phrase your presentation of yourself or blindness? Depending upon how you do it, will be seen in the positive or negative response you get. If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows. Recall that I collect responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and learn from and that URL is- Http://thoughtprovoker.info If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS sent directly to you, just write me and ask, at- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER 149 Framing Blindness "sir, I'm looking for a job. I heard you have several openings. As you can see," the young blind man held up his white cane in emphasis as he addressed the business owner, "I am blind and because of it, I'm having a very tough time getting employment. Did you know that nearly 80% of the blind are unemployed? For centuries, blindness has been viewed as the worst handicap a human can have, but it is all a lie, a great misunderstanding. With the right tools," raising his cane again, "a cane or dog guide, and with Braille or for some, large print and other blindness skills, we can do most jobs, just as good as a sighted person. But we don't usually get a chance to prove it." lifting the cane for a third time. "Usually people can't see past this and we get pity, doubting thoughts and seldom an equal chance. Would you give me a try in one of your job openings?" "No, I won't. And I'm going to tell you why." The business owner, Ernest tone in his voice, palms flat on the counter top, leaned forward. "I listened to you, heard every word, processed the difficulties you laid out concerning the non-acceptance and unemployment of the blind. But think about how you framed your story and what you set me up to think. You walked in, gave me the woes about being blind, hit me with 5 negatives, to one positive and you want me to think you've got what I'm looking for in an employee?" Slapping a palm on the counter top in emphasis. "But this is what I'll consider --- I want you to go back outside, take a minute to think about how you need to present yourself to me, then come back in and try your spiel again. But concentrate on telling what you can do for me." Surprised at the businessman's response, the blind guy knotted, accepting the challenge, turned and using the best cane technique he had, exited the building. Minutes later he came back in. "sir, you are looking to hire a customer service representative. I believe I have the skills to fill the position." Indicating the cane in his hand, "As you can see, I am blind and if you would hear me out, I would like to explain how I feel I can make this a success." Getting a go-ahead sound, he continued. "Your job add listed a requirement of competency with a PC. I use a PC every day. And how it works for me, I use what is called screen reading software, it's voice output. This software will usually work with most computer applications. And if we find that it doesn't work right out of the box with your companies system, we could call my state rehab counselor and she can have her IT specialist come in and evaluate your system and tweak my special software to work with yours. Second, you require customer service experience and though I haven't been paid to perform that duty, I've had a couple of volunteer positions in which customer service was part of my responsibilities." "The answer is still no. Better, but still not good enough. I now know that you have abilities, special tools and some backup to aid you if you need technical assistance. However, though I'm feeling there is employment potential, but it appears to come with an equal weight of potential problems that I would have to overcome. So no again. Go back out, rethink and come back in and convince me that you are the best person for the job." Not fully surprised, though somewhat dismayed, yet encouraged, the blind guy knotted, turned and exited the building. Minutes later he came back in. "Sir," reaching out his right hand to give a shake in greeting, "my name is John. You have an opening for a customer service rep, it is one of my best skills and I want to talk to you about hiring me for the job. I'm a very competent PC user. I have references I will present that will vouch for my ability and reliability to be at work every day, on time and that I always give 110% to the job. May I talk to you about your position?" "Yes, let's talk," responded the business owner. Robert Leslie Newman Email- newmanrl at cox.net THOUGHT PROVOKER Website- Http://www.thoughtprovoker.info _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 10:11:55 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:11:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion><85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0BB34D5155A04104B0D42339F50ED873@Jessica> Justin and all, I don't know. I don't think so. I'm not using a yahoo email address to subscribe to it. However I do have a yahoo email account anyway. If some of you are having trouble subscribing send me your email address off list and I can help you subscribe to the list and all I need to know is if you want individual or digest messages. jessica.trask.reagan. at gmail.com and put Assistance with New York Association of Blind students in the subject. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Young" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > Jess! > Do ya have to have a Yahoo email account to join this group? > > On 9/14/09, Jess wrote: >> David, >> Here is a link to subscribe to an email list that I started. >> NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com >> Jessica >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Dunphy" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association >> >> >>> I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or >>> anything like that, contact me at >>> djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >>>>From David >>> >>> ***** >>> If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio >>> station, >>> >>> and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out >>> the >>> >>> station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called >>> Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're >>> able >>> >>> to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and >>> more! >>> To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at >>> http://www.radio360.us >>> Follow us on twitter at >>> http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa >>> or add us to your MySpace at >>> http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa >>> Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From nefamphetamine at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 13:05:19 2009 From: nefamphetamine at gmail.com (Nefertiti Matos Olivares) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:05:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <0BB34D5155A04104B0D42339F50ED873@Jessica> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> <85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> <0BB34D5155A04104B0D42339F50ED873@Jessica> Message-ID: <3d644bc30909150605p7bc69fd6n42c4c10ac0c2358a@mail.gmail.com> No, you do not need to have a Yahoo account to join the group. Nef On 9/15/09, Jess wrote: > Justin and all, > I don't know. I don't think so. I'm not using a yahoo email address to > subscribe to it. However I do have a yahoo email account anyway. If some of > you are having trouble subscribing send me your email address off list and I > can help you subscribe to the list and all I need to know is if you want > individual or digest messages. jessica.trask.reagan. at gmail.com and put > Assistance with New York Association of Blind students in the subject. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Justin Young" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > > >> Jess! >> Do ya have to have a Yahoo email account to join this group? >> >> On 9/14/09, Jess wrote: >>> David, >>> Here is a link to subscribe to an email list that I started. >>> NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com >>> Jessica >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "David Dunphy" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association >>> >>> >>>> I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or >>>> anything like that, contact me at >>>> djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >>>>>From David >>>> >>>> ***** >>>> If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio >>>> station, >>>> >>>> and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out >>>> the >>>> >>>> station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters called >>>> Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're >>>> able >>>> >>>> to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, and >>>> more! >>>> To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at >>>> http://www.radio360.us >>>> Follow us on twitter at >>>> http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa >>>> or add us to your MySpace at >>>> http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa >>>> Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com > From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 15:37:33 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:37:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <3d644bc30909150605p7bc69fd6n42c4c10ac0c2358a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion><85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica><54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com><0BB34D5155A04104B0D42339F50ED873@Jessica> <3d644bc30909150605p7bc69fd6n42c4c10ac0c2358a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9A3B68A7AC094608BFB40080F24577A5@Jessica> Justin, You should have an invite now to join the group. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nefertiti Matos Olivares" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > No, you do not need to have a Yahoo account to join the group. > > Nef > > On 9/15/09, Jess wrote: >> Justin and all, >> I don't know. I don't think so. I'm not using a yahoo email address to >> subscribe to it. However I do have a yahoo email account anyway. If some >> of >> you are having trouble subscribing send me your email address off list >> and I >> can help you subscribe to the list and all I need to know is if you want >> individual or digest messages. jessica.trask.reagan. at gmail.com and put >> Assistance with New York Association of Blind students in the subject. >> Jessica >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Justin Young" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association >> >> >>> Jess! >>> Do ya have to have a Yahoo email account to join this group? >>> >>> On 9/14/09, Jess wrote: >>>> David, >>>> Here is a link to subscribe to an email list that I started. >>>> NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>> Jessica >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association >>>> >>>> >>>>> I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or >>>>> anything like that, contact me at >>>>> djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >>>>>>From David >>>>> >>>>> ***** >>>>> If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio >>>>> station, >>>>> >>>>> and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters >>>>> called >>>>> Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're >>>>> able >>>>> >>>>> to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, >>>>> and >>>>> more! >>>>> To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at >>>>> http://www.radio360.us >>>>> Follow us on twitter at >>>>> http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa >>>>> or add us to your MySpace at >>>>> http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa >>>>> Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 16:57:19 2009 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:57:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: <9A3B68A7AC094608BFB40080F24577A5@Jessica> References: <1B3899310B454D2C9811DC5043370560@thedjdinvasion> <85E07566F63549DA936C269D19E48920@Jessica> <54d8179e0909141755s7b13e09etdcfa0d28006f025d@mail.gmail.com> <0BB34D5155A04104B0D42339F50ED873@Jessica> <3d644bc30909150605p7bc69fd6n42c4c10ac0c2358a@mail.gmail.com> <9A3B68A7AC094608BFB40080F24577A5@Jessica> Message-ID: <54d8179e0909150957u66fab236i1c4c6fe6ee727bd6@mail.gmail.com> okay! Thanks On 9/15/09, Jess wrote: > Justin, > You should have an invite now to join the group. > Jessica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nefertiti Matos Olivares" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > > >> No, you do not need to have a Yahoo account to join the group. >> >> Nef >> >> On 9/15/09, Jess wrote: >>> Justin and all, >>> I don't know. I don't think so. I'm not using a yahoo email address to >>> subscribe to it. However I do have a yahoo email account anyway. If some >>> of >>> you are having trouble subscribing send me your email address off list >>> and I >>> can help you subscribe to the list and all I need to know is if you want >>> individual or digest messages. jessica.trask.reagan. at gmail.com and put >>> Assistance with New York Association of Blind students in the subject. >>> Jessica >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Justin Young" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association >>> >>> >>>> Jess! >>>> Do ya have to have a Yahoo email account to join this group? >>>> >>>> On 9/14/09, Jess wrote: >>>>> David, >>>>> Here is a link to subscribe to an email list that I started. >>>>> NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com >>>>> Jessica >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "David Dunphy" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:05 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New York Student Association >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I'm now in NY, so if I can help with a student division web site or >>>>>> anything like that, contact me at >>>>>> djdrocks4ever at gmail.com >>>>>>>From David >>>>>> >>>>>> ***** >>>>>> If you're tired of hearing the same old songs on your local radio >>>>>> station, >>>>>> >>>>>> and if you can't find the variety you've always wanted, then check out >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>>> station that I own and operate with a great group of broadcasters >>>>>> called >>>>>> Radio360. You'll hear all types of music and programming, plus you're >>>>>> able >>>>>> >>>>>> to control what you hear through requests, interaction with the djs, >>>>>> and >>>>>> more! >>>>>> To find out more about the station, visit us on the web at >>>>>> http://www.radio360.us >>>>>> Follow us on twitter at >>>>>> http://www.twitter.com/radio360usa >>>>>> or add us to your MySpace at >>>>>> http://www.myspace.com/radio360usa >>>>>> Come check us out, you won't be disappointed!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature database 4425 (20090914) __________ >>>>>> >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nefamphetamine%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 18:52:10 2009 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:52:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association Message-ID: HI all, those who will not be able to attend the NFB meeting in the city will be kept informed about everything. The Yahoo group is a great idea. A couple of days ago, a Google group was mentioned. Would there be any benefits to using Google groups rather than yahoo? Thanks, Alex From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 19:14:20 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:14:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59DA7400F79942BD93A65250947CB210@Jessica> Alex, yahoogroups and googlegroups are the same thing essentially. I was the one that mentioned it. And, I've already started the group. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Castillo" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:52 PM Subject: [nabs-l] New York Student Association > HI all, those who will not be able to attend the NFB meeting in the > city will be kept informed about everything. > > The Yahoo group is a great idea. > > A couple of days ago, a Google group was mentioned. Would there be > any benefits to using Google groups rather than yahoo? > > Thanks, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 19:43:28 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:43:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Message-ID: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> Hi All! Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York Party will take place!!! Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will feature Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for good measure Some cool oldies A Cash It Or Trash It track And most importantly.... Your calls and/or requests And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way Speaking of calls and requests... You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the address live at radio360.us or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address radio360usa or by phone at 516-717-4425 It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be celebrating the return to New York in style! So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to be connected to the program. I hope to see you awesome people there! Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Sep 15 19:56:19 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:56:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] possibility of re-organizing new york association of blind students In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If this is an official nabs list, why wouldn't you want it at the same place as the main nabs list, and most of the other state lists -- nfbnet.org? Dave Dave At 02:13 PM 9/12/2009, you wrote: >Hi Jess, > >Thanks for setting up the Yahoo group. > >I have also already emailed the person who used to run the student >division in New York to see if she has email addresses of former >members and other students. The more people we have in our new >discussion group, the more resourceful it will become. > >I will also ask the disability offices in universities in the New York >City area, such as NYU, Columbia, CUNY, Hofstra, etc. to inform their >blind and visually impaired students about this new group. > >I will let you know the list of universities I contact. > >Thanks. > >Best, >Philip > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4420 (20090912) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From jaedpo96 at aol.com Tue Sep 15 20:58:26 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:58:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah In-Reply-To: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> References: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> Message-ID: <8CC045E6758CF74-2138-1375D@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in Chicago in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it doesn't keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a half away from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the whitehouse. By the way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I have been listening to the station and I like the variety of music. From country to rock to pop to oldies you do it all, and there aren't very many regular radio stations that play so much variety. -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi All! Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York Party will take place!!! Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will feature Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for good measure Some cool oldies A Cash It Or Trash It track And most importantly.... Your calls and/or requests And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way Speaking of calls and requests... You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the address live at radio360.us or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address radio360usa or by phone at 516-717-4425 It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be celebrating the return to New York in style! So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to be connected to the program. I hope to see you awesome people there! Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From amylsabo at comcast.net Tue Sep 15 21:40:01 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:40:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight In-Reply-To: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> Message-ID: <1211898087.1568101253050801658.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello david, well, i have some awesome news to tell you but, it's also bad somewhat. my knee is of course acting up and, i cannot hardly walk at all! so, i'm home tonight with my knee up and all and, i will be here with big bells on to listen into the show tonight after all! i thought that i wasn't going to be able to listen in but, now i will be able to! i just wanted to tell you this my dear. thanks as always for all of the show updates and i will talk to you soon! hugs always, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:43:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi All! Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York Party will take place!!! Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will feature Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for good measure Some cool oldies A Cash It Or Trash It track And most importantly.... Your calls and/or requests And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way Speaking of calls and requests... You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the address live at radio360.us or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address radio360usa or by phone at 516-717-4425 It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be celebrating the return to New York in style! So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to be connected to the program. I hope to see you awesome people there! Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Sep 16 00:09:58 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:09:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah In-Reply-To: <8CC045E6758CF74-2138-1375D@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> References: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> <8CC045E6758CF74-2138-1375D@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000401ca3662$07ae2a70$170a7f50$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> So jealous Jason. Tell us all about it once you get back. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Polansky Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in Chicago in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it doesn't keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a half away from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the whitehouse. By the way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I have been listening to the station and I like the variety of music. From country to rock to pop to oldies you do it all, and there aren't very many regular radio stations that play so much variety. -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi All! Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York Party will take place!!! Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will feature Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for good measure Some cool oldies A Cash It Or Trash It track And most importantly.... Your calls and/or requests And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way Speaking of calls and requests... You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the address live at radio360.us or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address radio360usa or by phone at 516-717-4425 It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be celebrating the return to New York in style! So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to be connected to the program. I hope to see you awesome people there! Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Sep 16 00:13:15 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:13:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah References: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> <8CC045E6758CF74-2138-1375D@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <004901ca3662$7c7d1eb0$0401a8c0@Serene> Oh wow! You're lucky! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polansky" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:58 PM Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the > whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the > whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in Chicago > in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it doesn't > keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a half away > from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the whitehouse. By the > way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I have been listening to > the station and I like the variety of music. From country to rock to pop > to oldies you do it all, and there aren't very many regular radio stations > that play so much variety. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi All! > Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on > Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, crash > the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an hour, > thus killing The Djd Invasion. > But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York Party > will take place!!! > Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me > at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will > feature > Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for > good measure > Some cool oldies > A Cash It Or Trash It track > And most importantly.... > Your calls and/or requests > And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way > > Speaking of calls and requests... > You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the > address > live at radio360.us > or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address > radio360usa > or by phone at > 516-717-4425 > It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be > celebrating the return to New York in style! > So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on > to > http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html > to be connected to the program. > I hope to see you awesome people there! > Best regards, > David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager > http://www.radio360.us > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From albertyoo1 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 16 03:17:28 2009 From: albertyoo1 at hotmail.com (Albert Yoo) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:17:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah In-Reply-To: <000401ca3662$07ae2a70$170a7f50$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> References: <8395C36CA8774BB5B5E51C45A681E76F@thedjdinvasion> <8CC045E6758CF74-2138-1375D@webmail-d015.sysops.aol.com> <000401ca3662$07ae2a70$170a7f50$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Will there be any media there? Will you be on tv Jason? > From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:09:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > So jealous Jason. Tell us all about it once you get back. > Sarah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Polansky > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:58 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the > whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the > whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in > Chicago in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it > doesn't keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a > half away from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the > whitehouse. By the way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I > have been listening to the station and I like the variety of music. > From country to rock to pop to oldies you do it all, and there aren't > very many regular radio stations that play so much variety. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi All! > Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on > Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, > crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an > hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. > But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York > Party will take place!!! > Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join > me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which > will feature > Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for > good measure > Some cool oldies > A Cash It Or Trash It track > And most importantly.... > Your calls and/or requests > And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way > > Speaking of calls and requests... > You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at > the address > live at radio360.us > or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address > radio360usa > or by phone at > 516-717-4425 > It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be > celebrating the return to New York in style! > So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log > on to > http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html > to be connected to the program. > I hope to see you awesome people there! > Best regards, > David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager > http://www.radio360.us > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 12:07:43 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:07:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! Message-ID: <4383d01d0909160507n32ac7fady2871e935049baa3@mail.gmail.com> Hi, guys. Anybody had any good success with the latest version of Google Talk? I have the latest version in my computer, but with JAWS 10 and Windows Vista, it's doing something weird. The scripts for it are written only for JAWS 7, which I've had to upgrade. When I press the up arrow or down arrow key from the main edit thing field, I get "contact list unavailable partially checked." I downloaded Google Talk to track my e-mail, and plus some people talk to me through that messenger. So anyone know anything? Beth From liz.bottner at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 13:10:36 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:10:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Jobs] FW: Accepting applications to Summer 2010 Student Internship Program Message-ID: <4ab0e3c0.85c2f10a.61e7.ffffe462@mx.google.com> For your information. I apologize if this has been posted before. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot _____ Subject: Accepting applications to Summer 2010 Student Internship Program Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:33:02 -0500 To: mzavoli at hotmail.com From: careers at state.gov Hello: We are pleased to inform you that we are now accepting applications for the Summer 2010 Student Internship Program. Please click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/programs.html#SIP ) for more information, and to view the vacancy on USAJobs and start the online application process. The deadline to submit completed applications is November 2, 2009. Applicants must be U.S. citizens and a student in order to be eligible. Please read the vacancy announcement for all eligibility requirements. PLEASE NOTE: You may experience some technical difficulties with the online application system. Please click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/workaround.html ) for workaround instructions. We apologize for the inconvenience - we are working to fix this issue as quickly as possible. We appreciate your interest in a career with the U.S. Department of State. _____ You can view or update your subscriptions, password or e-mail address at any time on your User Profile Page. All you will need are your e-mail address and your password (if you have selected one). You can always use the "Forgot your Password" link on the Log-In page for help. This service is provided free of charge by the Office of Recruitment at the U.S. Department of State. Visit us on the web at http://careers.state.gov P.S. GovDocs can help you with any questions that you have about this e-mail subscription service. E-mail them at support at govdelivery.com with any questions. Please note that they will only answer technical questions relating to this e-mail subscription service. GovDelivery, Inc. sending on behalf of the U.S. Department of State . 2401 E Street NW . Suite 518-H . Washington DC 22520 . 1-800-439-1420 Image removed by sender. _____ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. Click here. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 332 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kramc11 at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 13:31:28 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:31:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0909160507n32ac7fady2871e935049baa3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0909160507n32ac7fady2871e935049baa3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0EDF09F7989949C5BD74F8A39860866B@SonyPC> I don't have any personal experience with it, but you can supposedly access some features of G-chat from AIM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:07 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! > Hi, guys. Anybody had any good success with the latest version of > Google Talk? I have the latest version in my computer, but with JAWS > 10 and Windows Vista, it's doing something weird. The scripts for it > are written only for JAWS 7, which I've had to upgrade. When I press > the up arrow or down arrow key from the main edit thing field, I get > "contact list unavailable partially checked." I downloaded Google > Talk to track my e-mail, and plus some people talk to me through that > messenger. So anyone know anything? > Beth > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From bcsarah.fan at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 15:31:30 2009 From: bcsarah.fan at gmail.com (Patricia) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:31:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] diagnostic and statistical manual 4th edition, text revision Message-ID: <8BEE5C2481F54BFBB2B1ECC5201C23FA@Athena> Any Psychology majors/grads out there using the DSM4TR yet? and if so what format is it in? I am required to have this for my abnormal psych course and I know beyond that as well. Being Canadian I found out makes me ineligible for any RFB&D texts, unless, of course, I'd like to go 4-track, and I am not eligle to register online. Somehow my Disability Service textbook coordinator found the DSM4TR on their website. I was hoping any psych majors could either A. hook me up with the manual if you have it, or B. tell me somewhere else where I could possibly look to find it. Thanks! Patricia From pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu Wed Sep 16 16:00:30 2009 From: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu (Philip So) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:00:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New York student association Message-ID: Thanks, Jess, for starting this group. And after subscribing, please introduce yourself to everyone. To post message, send email to newyorkassociationofblindstudents at yahoogroups.com Philip From pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu Wed Sep 16 16:20:06 2009 From: pcs2001 at caa.columbia.edu (Philip So) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:20:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New york student association Message-ID: I am also letting disability offices at universities know about our Yahoo group. I am mainly focusing on New York City area since I am more familiar with this geography. If someone out there could take other regions that would be great. At the same time, we probably want to keep the process managable. During the past 3 days, these universities have been notified and some of their students and recent alumni have already joined: 1) Hunter College 2) Columbia University and Barnard College 3) New York University 4) New School University 5) Cornell University Thanks. Below is what I wrote to the universities. Philip Email to universities Subject: Informal Email Discussion Group for New York Visually Impaired and Blind Students Dear Mr. Ms. Person , My name is Blah Blah. I am a blind university student. I am pleased to inform you that a group of blind and visually impaired students in New York have created an informal email discussion group. We would appreciate it very much if you could please inform your current students and recent alumni who may benefit from it. We hope this email discussion group can serve as an informal platform for blind and visually impaired university students in New York to meet and support one another. Please kindly inform your students that to subscribe to this email group, they can send a blank email to: newyorkassociationofblindstudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com A Yahoo account is not required to subscribe. Once your students have subscribed, they can introduce themselves to everyone and post messages by sending email to: newyorkassociationofblindstudents at yahoogroups.com Thank you very much. Best regards, From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 16:39:33 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:39:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals Message-ID: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just listen to trafic paterns? Silent signals, hazardous crossings Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at the Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native said. "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I think I'll have to find a different way.'' Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for the blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city of making maintenance a low priority. Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has failed to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they say, is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack the devices. "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done itself proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which also fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to keep signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if pedestrians notify officials. "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely on them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston Transportation Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, in Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's busiest intersections feel like a roll of the dice. "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline Downing, a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide Dog Users of Massachusetts. Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as his guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one day last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping signal is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all four crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested them, five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out by heavy morning traffic. "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state Commission for the Blind about the problem. "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install more audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans with Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, such as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can cost more than $10,000. Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully lobbied the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said that while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every intersection, saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We believe a blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of malfunction demonstrate their limits. But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow speeds. Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars meet certain decibel requirements. "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians are safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to determine speed and direction of the traffic.'' But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and that cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and keeping them working. "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace of mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then they don't work from one day to the next.'' C Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 17:29:22 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:29:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Jobs] FW: Accepting applications to Summer 2010Student Internship Program In-Reply-To: <4ab0e3c0.85c2f10a.61e7.ffffe462@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4ab12075.141bf30a.38c8.382f@mx.google.com> Sorry about my ignerence. What is this? and how many credits do you need to have? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:11 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Jobs] FW: Accepting applications to Summer 2010Student Internship Program For your information. I apologize if this has been posted before. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot _____ Subject: Accepting applications to Summer 2010 Student Internship Program Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:33:02 -0500 To: mzavoli at hotmail.com From: careers at state.gov Hello: We are pleased to inform you that we are now accepting applications for the Summer 2010 Student Internship Program. Please click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/programs.html#SIP ) for more information, and to view the vacancy on USAJobs and start the online application process. The deadline to submit completed applications is November 2, 2009. Applicants must be U.S. citizens and a student in order to be eligible. Please read the vacancy announcement for all eligibility requirements. PLEASE NOTE: You may experience some technical difficulties with the online application system. Please click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/workaround.html ) for workaround instructions. We apologize for the inconvenience - we are working to fix this issue as quickly as possible. We appreciate your interest in a career with the U.S. Department of State. _____ You can view or update your subscriptions, password or e-mail address at any time on your User Profile Page. All you will need are your e-mail address and SSTATE> your password (if you have selected one). You can always use the "Forgot your Password" link on the Log-In page for help. This service is provided free of charge by the Office of Recruitment at the U.S. Department of State. Visit us on the web at http://careers.state.gov P.S. GovDocs can help you with any questions that you have about this e-mail subscription service. E-mail them at support at govdelivery.com with any questions. Please note that they will only answer technical questions relating to this e-mail subscription service. GovDelivery, Inc. sending on behalf of the U.S. Department of State . 2401 E Street NW . Suite 518-H . Washington DC 22520 . 1-800-439-1420 Image removed by sender. _____ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. Click here. From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Wed Sep 16 18:23:34 2009 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:23:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com> References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000301ca36fa$d3903e10$7ab0ba30$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this problem completely. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah alawami Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just listen to trafic paterns? Silent signals, hazardous crossings Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at the Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native said. "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I think I'll have to find a different way.'' Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for the blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city of making maintenance a low priority. Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has failed to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they say, is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack the devices. "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done itself proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which also fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to keep signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if pedestrians notify officials. "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely on them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston Transportation Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, in Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's busiest intersections feel like a roll of the dice. "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline Downing, a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide Dog Users of Massachusetts. Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as his guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one day last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping signal is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all four crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested them, five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out by heavy morning traffic. "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state Commission for the Blind about the problem. "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install more audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans with Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, such as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can cost more than $10,000. Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully lobbied the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said that while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every intersection, saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We believe a blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of malfunction demonstrate their limits. But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow speeds. Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars meet certain decibel requirements. "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians are safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to determine speed and direction of the traffic.'' But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and that cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and keeping them working. "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace of mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then they don't work from one day to the next.'' C Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 20:09:39 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:09:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com> <000301ca36fa$d3903e10$7ab0ba30$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <000901ca3709$a02f05b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I agree with you Sara, I could see how they could be helpful but it is not a good idea to depend on them totally. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Jevnikar" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this problem > completely. > Sarah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Sarah alawami > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > > I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just > listen to trafic paterns? > > Silent signals, hazardous crossings > > Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind > > > > By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 > > > > Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily > negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at > the > Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested > crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. > > > > The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and > other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the > traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. > > > > "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native > said. > "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I > > think I'll have to find a different way.'' > > > > Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another > audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for > the > blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 > audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the > city of > making maintenance a low priority. > > > > Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its > streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has > failed > to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible > crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they > say, > is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack > the > devices. > > > > "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob > Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done > itself > proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' > > > > City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on > requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which > also > fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to > keep > signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker > if > pedestrians notify officials. > > > > "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who > rely on > them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston > Transportation > Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We > really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they > aren't > working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' > > > > Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty > signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. > > > > But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, > in > Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's > busiest > intersections feel like a roll of the dice. > > > > "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline > Downing, > a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide > Dog > Users of Massachusetts. > > > > Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as > his > guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one > day > last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping > signal > is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all > four > crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested > them, > five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, > designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out > by > heavy morning traffic. > > > > "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' > > > > He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state > Commission > for the Blind about the problem. > > > > "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. > > > > To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added > irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install > more > audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans > with > Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, > such > as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say > > they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can > cost > more than $10,000. > > > > Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse > for > the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully > lobbied > the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said > that > while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation > officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible > signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. > > > > Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even > suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every > intersection, > saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. > > > > "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris > Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We > believe a > blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is > learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' > > > > The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of > malfunction demonstrate their limits. > > > > But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, > especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow > speeds. > Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than > sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars > > meet certain decibel requirements. > > > > "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians > are > safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to > determine > speed and direction of the traffic.'' > > > > But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and > that > cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and > keeping them working. > > > > "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace > of > mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then > they > don't work from one day to the next.'' > > > > C Copyright > > 2009 The New York Times Company > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com > mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From kolbygarrison at triad.rr.com Wed Sep 16 19:30:32 2009 From: kolbygarrison at triad.rr.com (Kolby Garrison) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:30:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <000901ca3709$a02f05b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com><000301ca36fa$d3903e10$7ab0ba30$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> <000901ca3709$a02f05b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> Message-ID: <4E2092588E144F9198D4F4ADC2CA4C74@YOURXBFO0REXEG> I agree with what everyone has stated on this subject thus far. Adequate orientation and mobility training would completely eliminate the issue. There are audible signals on my college campus, and I do not rely on them whatsoever. There are times when I will cross when I hear others crossing and that the traffic is in my favor, but students cross whenever they want and the majority of the time I wait until I know that it is safe to cross by listening. I also cannot stand it when cars honk their horns at me in an attempt to tell me that I can go. Whenever a driver does this, I smile and wave the car on. Kolby From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:46:19 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:46:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! In-Reply-To: <0EDF09F7989949C5BD74F8A39860866B@SonyPC> References: <4383d01d0909160507n32ac7fady2871e935049baa3@mail.gmail.com> <0EDF09F7989949C5BD74F8A39860866B@SonyPC> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909161246u7660fe37k36a1660169a2c5d0@mail.gmail.com> How do you do that? Can you e-mail me privately and tell me how I can do that? I have AIM. On 9/16/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > I don't have any personal experience with it, but you can supposedly access > some features of G-chat from AIM. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:07 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! > > >> Hi, guys. Anybody had any good success with the latest version of >> Google Talk? I have the latest version in my computer, but with JAWS >> 10 and Windows Vista, it's doing something weird. The scripts for it >> are written only for JAWS 7, which I've had to upgrade. When I press >> the up arrow or down arrow key from the main edit thing field, I get >> "contact list unavailable partially checked." I downloaded Google >> Talk to track my e-mail, and plus some people talk to me through that >> messenger. So anyone know anything? >> Beth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From troubleclark at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 20:07:05 2009 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:07:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <4E2092588E144F9198D4F4ADC2CA4C74@YOURXBFO0REXEG> References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com> <000901ca3709$a02f05b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <4E2092588E144F9198D4F4ADC2CA4C74@YOURXBFO0REXEG> Message-ID: On 9/16/09, Kolby Garrison wrote: > I agree with what everyone has stated on this subject thus far. Adequate > orientation and mobility training would completely eliminate the issue. > There are audible signals on my college campus, and I do not rely on them > whatsoever. There are times when I will cross when I hear others crossing > and that the traffic is in my favor, but students cross whenever they want > and the majority of the time I wait until I know that it is safe to cross by > listening. I also cannot stand it when cars honk their horns at me in an > attempt to tell me that I can go. Whenever a driver does this, I smile and > wave the car on. > Kolby > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From aphelps at BISM.org Wed Sep 16 20:35:33 2009 From: aphelps at BISM.org (Amy Phelps) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:35:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <4E2092588E144F9198D4F4ADC2CA4C74@YOURXBFO0REXEG> References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com><000301ca36fa$d3903e10$7ab0ba30$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca><000901ca3709$a02f05b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> <4E2092588E144F9198D4F4ADC2CA4C74@YOURXBFO0REXEG> Message-ID: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC023D1154@blindmail.BISM.COM> Do we really want to settle for adequate or would it be better to have proper training? Warm regards, Amy C. Phelps   Amy C. Phelps, CRC, NOMC Director of Rehabilitation Services Phone: 410-737-2642 Mobile: 410-274-1647 E-mail: aphelps at bism.org "A frog in a well, can only see its piece of the sky" ~Unknown Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kolby Garrison Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:31 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals I agree with what everyone has stated on this subject thus far. Adequate orientation and mobility training would completely eliminate the issue. There are audible signals on my college campus, and I do not rely on them whatsoever. There are times when I will cross when I hear others crossing and that the traffic is in my favor, but students cross whenever they want and the majority of the time I wait until I know that it is safe to cross by listening. I also cannot stand it when cars honk their horns at me in an attempt to tell me that I can go. Whenever a driver does this, I smile and wave the car on. Kolby _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org From golfereric at comcast.net Wed Sep 16 21:03:46 2009 From: golfereric at comcast.net (golfereric at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:03:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] 2003 Microsoft Access Keyboard Shortcuts w/Zoomtext Message-ID: <465751795.2017651253135026620.JavaMail.root@sz0007a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Hello Everyone I'm taking a class called Business Systems Analysis & Design and for the first half of the class we are using Microsoft Access. I have 2003 Microsoft Access installed into my laptop. My question is, anyone know of any keyboard shortcuts for 2003 Microsoft Access while using Zoomtext Version 9.18.4 Thanks, Eric Gaudes From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 21:38:46 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:38:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New york student association In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Philip, Thanks for that. I'm do the Capital District which mainly includes Albany, Schenectady and Troy and surrounding areas. Did you email the letters to the Directors or Associate Directors of the Disability Services offices? Jessica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip So" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] New york student association >I am also letting disability offices at universities know about our Yahoo >group. > I am mainly focusing on New York City area since I am more familiar > with this geography. If someone out there could take other regions > that would be great. > At the same time, we probably want to keep the process managable. > During the past 3 days, these universities have been notified and some > of their students and recent alumni have already joined: > > 1) Hunter College > 2) Columbia University and Barnard College > 3) New York University > 4) New School University > 5) Cornell University > > Thanks. Below is what I wrote to the universities. > > Philip > > Email to universities > Subject: Informal Email Discussion Group for New York Visually > Impaired and Blind Students > > Dear Mr. Ms. Person , > > My name is Blah Blah. I am a blind university student. I am pleased > to inform you that a group of blind and visually impaired students in > New York have created an informal email discussion group. We would > appreciate it very much if you could please inform your current > students and recent alumni who > may benefit from it. > > We hope this email discussion group can serve as an informal platform > for blind and visually impaired university students in New York to > meet and support one another. > > Please kindly inform your students that to subscribe to this email > group, they can send a blank email to: > newyorkassociationofblindstudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com > A Yahoo account is not required to subscribe. > > Once your students have subscribed, they can introduce themselves to > everyone and post messages by sending email to: > newyorkassociationofblindstudents at yahoogroups.com > > Thank you very much. > > Best regards, > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 16 21:52:01 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:52:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com><000301ca36fa$d3903e10$7ab0ba30$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca><000901ca3709$a02f05b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1><4E2092588E144F9198D4F4ADC2CA4C74@YOURXBFO0REXEG> <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC023D1154@blindmail.BISM.COM> Message-ID: <000901ca3717$ecdbe550$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Amy and listers, I'll take proper training over adequate and the chance of getting a rear end full of fenders from an undetected hybrid vehicle who's minuscule sounds are masked by a blaring audible traffic signal any day. Audible traffic signals and hybrid vehicles are an open invitation to one's grave! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Phelps" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals Do we really want to settle for adequate or would it be better to have proper training? Warm regards, Amy C. Phelps Amy C. Phelps, CRC, NOMC Director of Rehabilitation Services Phone: 410-737-2642 Mobile: 410-274-1647 E-mail: aphelps at bism.org "A frog in a well, can only see its piece of the sky" ~Unknown Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kolby Garrison Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:31 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals I agree with what everyone has stated on this subject thus far. Adequate orientation and mobility training would completely eliminate the issue. There are audible signals on my college campus, and I do not rely on them whatsoever. There are times when I will cross when I hear others crossing and that the traffic is in my favor, but students cross whenever they want and the majority of the time I wait until I know that it is safe to cross by listening. I also cannot stand it when cars honk their horns at me in an attempt to tell me that I can go. Whenever a driver does this, I smile and wave the car on. Kolby _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From kramc11 at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 22:34:31 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:34:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! In-Reply-To: <4383d01d0909161246u7660fe37k36a1660169a2c5d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4383d01d0909160507n32ac7fady2871e935049baa3@mail.gmail.com><0EDF09F7989949C5BD74F8A39860866B@SonyPC> <4383d01d0909161246u7660fe37k36a1660169a2c5d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't know how to do it, but one of my friends has jury-rigged it to work somehow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! > How do you do that? Can you e-mail me privately and tell me how I can > do that? I have AIM. > > On 9/16/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >> I don't have any personal experience with it, but you can supposedly >> access >> some features of G-chat from AIM. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Beth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:07 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! >> >> >>> Hi, guys. Anybody had any good success with the latest version of >>> Google Talk? I have the latest version in my computer, but with JAWS >>> 10 and Windows Vista, it's doing something weird. The scripts for it >>> are written only for JAWS 7, which I've had to upgrade. When I press >>> the up arrow or down arrow key from the main edit thing field, I get >>> "contact list unavailable partially checked." I downloaded Google >>> Talk to track my e-mail, and plus some people talk to me through that >>> messenger. So anyone know anything? >>> Beth >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 23:46:16 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:46:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! In-Reply-To: References: <4383d01d0909160507n32ac7fady2871e935049baa3@mail.gmail.com> <0EDF09F7989949C5BD74F8A39860866B@SonyPC> <4383d01d0909161246u7660fe37k36a1660169a2c5d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909161646r31f8bd29m96a001afff6c256a@mail.gmail.com> Who is this friend? Could you put me in touch with this guy/girl? Thanks. Meanwhile, I've got Miranda IM installed on my computer and don't know how to get it to add all my accounts. Beth On 9/16/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > I don't know how to do it, but one of my friends has jury-rigged it to work > somehow. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! > > >> How do you do that? Can you e-mail me privately and tell me how I can >> do that? I have AIM. >> >> On 9/16/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: >>> I don't have any personal experience with it, but you can supposedly >>> access >>> some features of G-chat from AIM. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Beth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:07 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Google Talk again! >>> >>> >>>> Hi, guys. Anybody had any good success with the latest version of >>>> Google Talk? I have the latest version in my computer, but with JAWS >>>> 10 and Windows Vista, it's doing something weird. The scripts for it >>>> are written only for JAWS 7, which I've had to upgrade. When I press >>>> the up arrow or down arrow key from the main edit thing field, I get >>>> "contact list unavailable partially checked." I downloaded Google >>>> Talk to track my e-mail, and plus some people talk to me through that >>>> messenger. So anyone know anything? >>>> Beth >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 00:13:48 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:13:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals References: <4ab114cb.171bf30a.18d4.ffff986d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: seriously....I dont even have stop lights....just signs -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah alawami" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:39 AM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just > listen to trafic paterns? > > Silent signals, hazardous crossings > > Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind > > > > By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 > > > > Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily > negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at > the > Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested > crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. > > > > The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and > other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the > traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. > > > > "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native > said. > "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I > > think I'll have to find a different way.'' > > > > Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another > audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for > the > blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 > audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the > city of > making maintenance a low priority. > > > > Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its > streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has > failed > to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible > crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they > say, > is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack > the > devices. > > > > "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob > Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done > itself > proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' > > > > City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on > requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which > also > fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to > keep > signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker > if > pedestrians notify officials. > > > > "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who > rely on > them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston > Transportation > Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We > really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they > aren't > working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' > > > > Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty > signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. > > > > But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, > in > Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's > busiest > intersections feel like a roll of the dice. > > > > "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline > Downing, > a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide > Dog > Users of Massachusetts. > > > > Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as > his > guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one > day > last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping > signal > is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all > four > crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested > them, > five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, > designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out > by > heavy morning traffic. > > > > "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' > > > > He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state > Commission > for the Blind about the problem. > > > > "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. > > > > To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added > irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install > more > audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans > with > Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, > such > as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say > > they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can > cost > more than $10,000. > > > > Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse > for > the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully > lobbied > the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said > that > while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation > officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible > signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. > > > > Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even > suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every > intersection, > saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. > > > > "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris > Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We > believe a > blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is > learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' > > > > The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of > malfunction demonstrate their limits. > > > > But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, > especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow > speeds. > Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than > sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars > > meet certain decibel requirements. > > > > "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians > are > safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to > determine > speed and direction of the traffic.'' > > > > But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and > that > cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and > keeping them working. > > > > "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace > of > mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then > they > don't work from one day to the next.'' > > > > C Copyright > > 2009 The New York Times Company > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com > mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From corbbo at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 01:52:38 2009 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:52:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Jobs] FW: Accepting applications to Summer 2010Student Internship Program In-Reply-To: <4ab12075.141bf30a.38c8.382f@mx.google.com> References: <4ab12075.141bf30a.38c8.382f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It's for the US Department of State. P.S. There is a Braille literacy crisis in America, where only about 10 percent of Blind people know how to read and write Braille. For the whole story, and to help by purchasing the 2009 Commemorative Silver Dollar featuring Louis Braille, please take a moment to visit: www.Braille.org -- Thanks! On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Sarah alawami wrote: Sorry about my ignerence. What is this? and how many credits do you need to have? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Liz Bottner Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:11 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Jobs] FW: Accepting applications to Summer 2010Student Internship Program For your information. I apologize if this has been posted before. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot _____ Subject: Accepting applications to Summer 2010 Student Internship Program Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:33:02 -0500 To: mzavoli at hotmail.com From: careers at state.gov Hello: We are pleased to inform you that we are now accepting applications for the Summer 2010 Student Internship Program. Please click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/programs.html#SIP ) for more information, and to view the vacancy on USAJobs and start the online application process. The deadline to submit completed applications is November 2, 2009. Applicants must be U.S. citizens and a student in order to be eligible. Please read the vacancy announcement for all eligibility requirements. PLEASE NOTE: You may experience some technical difficulties with the online application system. Please click here (http://careers.state.gov/students/workaround.html ) for workaround instructions. We apologize for the inconvenience - we are working to fix this issue as quickly as possible. We appreciate your interest in a career with the U.S. Department of State. _____ You can view or update your subscriptions, password or e-mail address at any time on your User Profile Page. All you will need are your e-mail address and SSTATE> your password (if you have selected one). You can always use the "Forgot your Password" link on the Log-In page for help. This service is provided free of charge by the Office of Recruitment at the U.S. Department of State. Visit us on the web at http://careers.state.gov P.S. GovDocs can help you with any questions that you have about this e-mail subscription service. E-mail them at support at govdelivery.com with any questions. Please note that they will only answer technical questions relating to this e-mail subscription service. GovDelivery, Inc. sending on behalf of the U.S. Department of State . 2401 E Street NW . Suite 518-H . Washington DC 22520 . 1-800-439-1420 Image removed by sender. _____ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. Click here. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 05:36:56 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:36:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Vision - iPod touch Message-ID: <4ab1cafb.9713f30a.297e.6069@mx.google.com> iPod touch includes a screen reader and other innovative accessibility features that make it easier to use for those with impaired vision. The same VoiceOver screen reader made popular on the Mac and the iPhone is now a standard feature on iPod touch 32GB and 64GB (Fall 2009). It's the world's first gesture-based screen reader, enabling you to enjoy the fun and simplicity of iPod touch even if you can't see the screen. What makes VoiceOver on iPod touch remarkable is that you control it using simple gestures that let you physically interact with items on the screen. It's easy to learn and fun to use. Instead of memorizing hundreds of keyboard commands or endlessly pressing tiny arrow keys to find what you're looking for, with VoiceOver you simply touch the screen to hear a description of the item under your finger, then gesture with a double-tap, drag, or flick. VoiceOver delivers an experience unlike any screen reader you've used before. Traditional screen readers describe individual elements on the screen, but struggle to communicate where each element is located or provide information about adjoining objects. This contextual information is very important but typically filtered out by other screen readers. For example, "off-screen" models used by traditional screen readers to represent applications and web pages intentionally strip away contextual information and describe web pages as a list or menu of items. But with VoiceOver on iPod touch, you'll experience something entirely new. Because VoiceOver works with the touchscreen, you interact directly with objects on the screen and can understand their location and context. So, when you touch the upper-left corner of the screen, you'll hear what's in the upper-left corner of a web page, and as you drag your finger around the screen, you'll learn what's nearby, providing an amazing new sense of context and relationships between the items you hear. For many, VoiceOver on iPod touch will provide, perhaps for the first time, a true sense of not only how things appear on the screen, but also descriptions of what they are. You'll hear descriptions of every item, including status information such as battery level, Wi-Fi signal levels, and time of day. iPod touch even lets you know when the display changes to landscape or portrait, and when the screen is locked or unlocked. The speaking rate is adjustable so you can set it to a speed that best suits your listening ability. VoiceOver uses distinctive sound effects to alert you when an application opens, when the screen is updated, when a message dialog appears, and more. And when VoiceOver is talking, the volume of background sounds and music is automatically lowered, "ducking" under the voice, so you can clearly hear what VoiceOver is telling you. Dialog bubble graphic containing Japanese characters It Speaks Your Language VoiceOver includes built-in voices that speak over 21 languages including Bahasa Indonesian, Chinese (Cantonese), Chinese (China), Chinese (Taiwan), Dutch, English (U.S.), English (UK), English (Australian), Finnish, French (Canada), French (France), German, Greek, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese (Brazil), Portuguese (Portugal), Romanian, Russian, Slovak, Spanish (Mexico), Spanish (Spain), Swedish, Thai, and Turkish. Getting Started VoiceOver is built into iPod touch 32GB and 64GB (Fall 2009). There's nothing extra to purchase or install. All you need is iPod touch, iTunes 9 or later, and a Mac or PC. You can activate your iPod touch and enable VoiceOver without sighted assistance using iTunes with a compatible screen reader like VoiceOver (included in Mac OS X) or GW-Micro Window-Eyes for Windows XP and Windows Vista (sold separately). When you activate iPod touch using iTunes, you can enable VoiceOver to start using it right away. Or a sighted user can enable VoiceOver for you directly on iPod touch using the Accessibility menu in the Settings application. How It Works With VoiceOver enabled, you'll use a different but simple set of gestures to control iPod touch. For example, instead of tapping to activate a button, tap the button to hear a description of it, double-tap to activate it, and swipe up or down to adjust a slider. When an item on the screen is selected, a black rectangle called the VoiceOver cursor appears around it. The VoiceOver cursor is displayed for the benefit of sighted users with whom you may be sharing your iPod touch. When you prefer privacy, VoiceOver includes a screen curtain that turns off the display so no one can read it without your knowledge. In addition to touching and dragging around the screen, you can also flick left and right to move the VoiceOver cursor precisely to the next or previous item on the screen - no matter how big or small it is. By flicking, you have precise control of what you hear even when it might otherwise be difficult to place your finger on it. Practice Gestures With the Practice Gestures setting on iPod touch, you can hone your technique and learn new gestures. Or use Practice Gestures just to find out what each gesture does. You can access Practice Gestures from the VoiceOver preferences in Settings. Entering Text When you're typing text, such as an email message or a note, VoiceOver echoes each character on the keyboard as you touch it, and again to confirm when you enter it. You can also have VoiceOver speak each completed word instead of or in addition to individual characters as you type them. A flick up or down while typing moves the insertion point cursor left and right within the text, so you can edit a word just as easily and precisely as typing a new word. To help you type more quickly and accurately, iPod touch features word prediction and suggests the correct spelling when you type a word incorrectly. With Speak Auto-text enabled, you'll hear a sound effect and the suggested word spoken automatically. You can just keep typing to ignore it, or press the Space key to have iPod touch type it for you. VoiceOver features an innovative new virtual control called a "rotor." Turning the rotor - by rotating two fingers on the screen as if you were turning an actual dial - changes the way VoiceOver moves through a document based on a setting you choose. For example, a flick up or down might move through text word by word. But when you choose the "character" setting, each time you flick up or down VoiceOver will move through the text character by character - perfect when you're proofreading or editing text. You can also use the rotor to navigate web pages. When you're on a web page, the rotor contains the names of common items, such as headers, links, form elements, images, and more. You select a setting, then flick up and down to move to the previous or next occurrence of that item on the page, skipping over items in between. Cut, Copy & Paste Cut, copy, and paste comes to iPod touch. To bring up cut, copy, and paste options, use the rotor and choose Edit. Flick up or down to choose between the Select and Select All functions, then double tap. If you choose Select, the word closest to the insertion point is selected when you double tap. Pinch to increase or decrease the selection. If you choose Select All, the entire text is selected. When text is selected, cut, copy, and paste options appear on the screen. If you want to undo something, just give iPod touch a shake. You can also flick left or right to choose the undo action, then double tap. Applications VoiceOver works with all of the built-in applications that come with iPod touch, such as iPod, iTunes, Mail, Safari, and Maps. So you can surf the web, text and email your friends, check your stocks and the weather, and much, much more. Voice Control In addition to gestures, you can use your voice to play music. Just press and hold the Home button, listen for the audio prompt, and speak the name of the artist, album, or playlist you want to hear. You can pause, play, change tracks, and even shuffle your music. Never give up! no matter how big or small the struggle may seem! Quote by Vicki Moore From lindsay3.14 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 05:46:18 2009 From: lindsay3.14 at gmail.com (Lindsay Yazzolino) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:46:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] MatLab for statistics Message-ID: Hi, I am taking a statistics course and would appreciate if someone could explain to me what I will need to do to make MatLab work with either VoiceOver or JAWS. Thanks in advance for any input. Lindsay From lindsay3.14 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 05:51:14 2009 From: lindsay3.14 at gmail.com (Lindsay Yazzolino) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:51:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish Message-ID: Hi, I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you could tell me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols correctly. I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to be able to read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would also greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this with JAWS as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish symbols, perhaps using unicode? Thanks. Lindsay From harryhogue at yahoo.com Thu Sep 17 07:55:22 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Lindsay, You can change your keyboard layout to write in Spanish, at least in Windows. Let me know if you're interested in knowing how to do this and I can tell you how. It allows you to press the apostrophe followed by the letter you want accented, and shift with some other symbols--the inverted question mark, exclamation point, etc. I can give you the key commands, bu the best thing to do, I've found, is once you ahve it changed over, just turn JAWS or Voiceover to read characters and play around with the different symbols. I use a Focus 40 with JAWS, so I don't know if my display functions different as far as table layout, but I switch mine to ESP 438 or something like that. It's the only "esp" in there. You can, of course, always use another table, but those are the traditional symbols for what I guess is considered official Spanish Braille. Please odn't hesitate to write me off list if you have any other questions or need help with Spanish or whatever. It's a great language. Harry --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Lindsay Yazzolino wrote: > From: Lindsay Yazzolino > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:51 AM > Hi, > I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you > could tell > me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols > correctly. > I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to > be able to > read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would > also > greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this > with JAWS > as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish > symbols, > perhaps using unicode? Thanks. > > Lindsay > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > From achisleywade at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 17 16:28:39 2009 From: achisleywade at bellsouth.net (Arlene Chisley-Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Java Programs Message-ID: <48708.10301.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello NAB Students, I am in the process of developing an accessible Java graphical user interface (GUI) for blind students using Java Swing and wanted to get some feedback. The program can be launched from your screen reader. I want to understand how to assist blind students most effectively in navigating graphical user interface. I need to get some insight from others who are blind in hoping to develop programs that will be useful. The programs will have very descriptive audio to aid in the navigation for blind users. By using an accessible Java framework the graphical components user interface is made available to the screen reader. If you are already using some other means to aid you with graphical components please share your process with me. All information will be keep confidential, and no names will be used. Please email your comments to: achisleywade at acm.org Thanks in advance for your cooperation. Arlene From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 20:23:24 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:23:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] For your information- Change in membership committee contact information Message-ID: <409c235c0909171323g4a8a3bfco847068725dfef2f2@mail.gmail.com> Dear  Nabs membership,  I just wanted to let everybody know that there  is a very recent change in my contact information as membership contact.  The information sent out  by President Silverman in  the monthly bulletin was  absolutely correct  in listing my E-mail as DS94124 at aol.com. However,  since that time, I've moved communications to  the following address: dsmithnfb at gmail.com.  Please feel free to contact  me at this address from this point forward.  My  apoligies for any Mix-ups from the change .  best,  Darian Smith  Co- membership chair National Association of Blind Students From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 20:32:07 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:32:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) Message-ID: <409c235c0909171332j5f4db974uff7172a626f4c3c5@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I was going through some old files and found a recruitment write-up i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are wanting to change the world. Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members of your local student divisions. have a great day, Darian p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about the program. AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that engages youth ages 18 – 24 in team - based community service. Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, CPR and first aid. Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a lifetime! If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit for you or someone you know! What else you should know: aside from helping their country, corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an education award upon successful completion of the program. Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. For More information, please visit our website at: www.americorps.gov/nccc From myangelblessings at hotmail.com Thu Sep 17 22:18:33 2009 From: myangelblessings at hotmail.com (Ben Peters) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:18:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] google apps for colleges Message-ID: Hi All, has anyone used a google app provided by a college? My school recently started using google apps for their online material. They are now providing students a free and "required" email this new google app feature. I am having trouble properly setting my email up in outlook express; I've done this before with no problem, but because the instructions say to enter everything as GMAIL and my address is @mycr.redwoods.edu I am having trouble. If someone has used a school email through google apps and knows how to work this I could use some help. Thanks, Ben Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/benpeters10 MySpace: www.myspace.com/angelbenwithlove FaceBook: http://profile.to/benpeters10/ EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From kramc11 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 23:40:11 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:40:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] google apps for colleges In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My high school uses a similar program. Enter your address as whatever at mycr.redwoods.edu then enter the rest of the email as if it was a G-mail account. AKA The POP3 would be pop.gmail.com The SMTP is smtp.gmail.com 995 Outgoing mail port 465 Incoming mail port 995 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Peters" To: "nabs-l" ; "NABS" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:18 PM Subject: [nabs-l] google apps for colleges > > Hi All, has anyone used a google app provided by a college? My school > recently started using google apps for their online material. They are now > providing students a free and "required" email this new google app > feature. I am having trouble properly setting my email up in outlook > express; I've done this before with no problem, but because the > instructions say to enter everything as GMAIL and my address is > @mycr.redwoods.edu I am having trouble. If someone has used a school email > through google apps and knows how to work this I could use some help. > Thanks, Ben > > > > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/benpeters10 > MySpace: > www.myspace.com/angelbenwithlove > FaceBook: > http://profile.to/benpeters10/ > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 23:43:33 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:43:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <000901ca3717$ecdbe550$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4ab2c9a9.9513f30a.0409.0fff@mx.google.com> Yeah I was hit in february but tank the lord it wasn't my fault. I know when to cross and I did. I tin the other driver was blind though. Hehehe. But seriesly I wish the states here would provide the same trainign I got at the nfb center I went to. Not this point a to point b crap. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals Hello Amy and listers, I'll take proper training over adequate and the chance of getting a rear end full of fenders from an undetected hybrid vehicle who's minuscule sounds are masked by a blaring audible traffic signal any day. Audible traffic signals and hybrid vehicles are an open invitation to one's grave! Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Phelps" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals Do we really want to settle for adequate or would it be better to have proper training? Warm regards, Amy C. Phelps Amy C. Phelps, CRC, NOMC Director of Rehabilitation Services Phone: 410-737-2642 Mobile: 410-274-1647 E-mail: aphelps at bism.org "A frog in a well, can only see its piece of the sky" ~Unknown Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kolby Garrison Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:31 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals I agree with what everyone has stated on this subject thus far. Adequate orientation and mobility training would completely eliminate the issue. There are audible signals on my college campus, and I do not rely on them whatsoever. There are times when I will cross when I hear others crossing and that the traffic is in my favor, but students cross whenever they want and the majority of the time I wait until I know that it is safe to cross by listening. I also cannot stand it when cars honk their horns at me in an attempt to tell me that I can go. Whenever a driver does this, I smile and wave the car on. Kolby _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 23:43:33 2009 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:43:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <000301ca36fa$d3903e10$7ab0ba30$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4ab2c9aa.9513f30a.0409.1000@mx.google.com> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine won't. you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a to point b. I hate it. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Jevnikar Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this problem completely. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah alawami Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just listen to trafic paterns? Silent signals, hazardous crossings Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at the Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native said. "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I think I'll have to find a different way.'' Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for the blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city of making maintenance a low priority. Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has failed to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they say, is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack the devices. "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done itself proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which also fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to keep signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if pedestrians notify officials. "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely on them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston Transportation Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, in Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's busiest intersections feel like a roll of the dice. "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline Downing, a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide Dog Users of Massachusetts. Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as his guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one day last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping signal is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all four crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested them, five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out by heavy morning traffic. "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state Commission for the Blind about the problem. "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install more audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans with Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, such as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can cost more than $10,000. Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully lobbied the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said that while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every intersection, saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We believe a blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of malfunction demonstrate their limits. But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow speeds. Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars meet certain decibel requirements. "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians are safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to determine speed and direction of the traffic.'' But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and that cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and keeping them working. "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace of mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then they don't work from one day to the next.'' C Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From myangelblessings at hotmail.com Fri Sep 18 00:28:59 2009 From: myangelblessings at hotmail.com (Ben Peters) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:28:59 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] cancel my last message Message-ID: thanks anyway, but I got it figured out-Ben Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/benpeters10 MySpace: www.myspace.com/angelbenwithlove FaceBook: http://profile.to/benpeters10/ EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD Join me From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Sep 18 00:29:49 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:29:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) References: <409c235c0909171332j5f4db974uff7172a626f4c3c5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007701ca37f7$221e47a0$0401a8c0@Serene> Hi Darien I also am doing an AmeriCorps program--Unfortunately, I'm done at the end of this month. I help place public defender clients into drug rehab programs. I really enjoy it! Has anybody else on here ever done AmeriCorps? What have you guys done? Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "cabs-talk" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) Hi all, I was going through some old files and found a recruitment write-up i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are wanting to change the world. Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members of your local student divisions. have a great day, Darian p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about the program. AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that engages youth ages 18 – 24 in team - based community service. Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, CPR and first aid. Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a lifetime! If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit for you or someone you know! What else you should know: aside from helping their country, corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an education award upon successful completion of the program. Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. For More information, please visit our website at: www.americorps.gov/nccc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 01:49:05 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:49:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) In-Reply-To: <007701ca37f7$221e47a0$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: I worked with refugee families and victims of human trafficking. It's a noble job and a good way to get a taste of the real world in a way to connect with real people. I hope others will consider AmeriCorps, and be aware that Darian's promotion is but one component of the federal program. There are other areas for you to choose from. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:30 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) Hi Darien I also am doing an AmeriCorps program--Unfortunately, I'm done at the end of this month. I help place public defender clients into drug rehab programs. I really enjoy it! Has anybody else on here ever done AmeriCorps? What have you guys done? Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "cabs-talk" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) Hi all, I was going through some old files and found a recruitment write-up i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are wanting to change the world. Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members of your local student divisions. have a great day, Darian p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about the program. AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that engages youth ages 18 - 24 in team - based community service. Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, CPR and first aid. Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a lifetime! If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit for you or someone you know! What else you should know: aside from helping their country, corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an education award upon successful completion of the program. Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. For More information, please visit our website at: www.americorps.gov/nccc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu cco%40verizon.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 02:09:05 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:09:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] google apps for colleges References: Message-ID: <75D609A0FA754D328C83ED2AA3C4F830@teal6e6857f643> do you mean using gmail pop 3? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Peters" To: "nabs-l" ; "NABS" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: [nabs-l] google apps for colleges > > Hi All, has anyone used a google app provided by a college? My school > recently started using google apps for their online material. They are now > providing students a free and "required" email this new google app > feature. I am having trouble properly setting my email up in outlook > express; I've done this before with no problem, but because the > instructions say to enter everything as GMAIL and my address is > @mycr.redwoods.edu I am having trouble. If someone has used a school email > through google apps and knows how to work this I could use some help. > Thanks, Ben > > > > Follow me on Twitter: > http://twitter.com/benpeters10 > MySpace: > www.myspace.com/angelbenwithlove > FaceBook: > http://profile.to/benpeters10/ > > > > > > > > EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD > Join me > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 18 03:37:09 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:37:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Message-ID: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> NABSters: I recently joined a health club. Naturally, I have to deal with curious people who figure they can ask me whatever whenever. I'm working on finding ways to politely and firmly set boundaries as needed. For the most part, things have been okay. I've had to explain a lot (which gets old). But tonight, I experienced something so way out there that I just didn't know what to say or do! We'd just finished up a guest lecture. One of the other club members and I got to talking. Just before we planned to part ways, she said that I could identify her by the way she smelled. At thesame time, she stuck her wrist in front of my nose and told me to smell her perfume! I was mortified, and all I could think to say was Ëxcuse me?"as I recoiled. Apparently, she and this other blind guy (someone I happen to know( have this running joke that he can identify her by her scent. She figured then that that's how all blind people identify others. I tried to explain that this isn't so, and I think that she figured out quickly that her behavior was definitely inappropriate. I would like to know others on list have done in similar situations. Thanks. Respectfully, Jedi -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 04:46:07 2009 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:46:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> I've done this myself. Sometimes the perfume can be so strong that you could just identify them when they pass by you. But what if you run into a few other people who wear the same perfume? As you've stated you can't always tell. Voices usually help me, but sometimes one voice may sound the same as the other and so I'd get one person's name mixed with the other. I just get them to refresh my memory by saying who they are again. "excuse me no disrespect, but can you please not do that because to us that's considered inappropriate." is a way to approach someone in your case. Hope this helps. On 9/17/09, Jedi wrote: > NABSters: > > I recently joined a health club. Naturally, I have to deal with curious > people who figure they can ask me whatever whenever. I'm working on > finding ways to politely and firmly set boundaries as needed. For the > most part, things have been okay. I've had to explain a lot (which gets > old). But tonight, I experienced something so way out there that I just > didn't know what to say or do! > > We'd just finished up a guest lecture. One of the other club members > and I got to talking. Just before we planned to part ways, she said > that I could identify her by the way she smelled. At thesame time, she > stuck her wrist in front of my nose and told me to smell her perfume! I > was mortified, and all I could think to say was Ëxcuse me?"as I > recoiled. Apparently, she and this other blind guy (someone I happen to > know( have this running joke that he can identify her by her scent. She > figured then that that's how all blind people identify others. I tried > to explain that this isn't so, and I think that she figured out quickly > that her behavior was definitely inappropriate. > > I would like to know others on list have done in similar situations. > > Thanks. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com > -- Christina, bilateral facial cleft and total blindness. Beyond the face is a heart. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 05:35:12 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:35:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) In-Reply-To: References: <007701ca37f7$221e47a0$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <409c235c0909172235sc4dfd9dgd4ff394b76326160@mail.gmail.com> Yes, as Joe so accurately pointed out, there are multiple oppertunities within AmeriCorps. Their are Five basic Branches... SeniorCorps, Learn and Serve America, Vista and NCCC. If you check out the americorps website you will find out about all of them. Where did/do you both work? On 9/17/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > I worked with refugee families and victims of human trafficking. It's a > noble job and a good way to get a taste of the real world in a way to > connect with real people. I hope others will consider AmeriCorps, and be > aware that Darian's promotion is but one component of the federal program. > There are other areas for you to choose from. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community > Corps (NCCC) > > Hi Darien > > I also am doing an AmeriCorps program--Unfortunately, I'm done > at the end of this month. I help place public defender clients > into drug rehab programs. > I really enjoy it! Has anybody else on here ever done > AmeriCorps? What have you guys done? > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darian Smith" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "cabs-talk" > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:32 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) > > > Hi all, > I was going through some old files and found a recruitment write-up > i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would > be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are > wanting to change the world. > Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members > of your local student divisions. > have a great day, > Darian > > p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about > the program. > > AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! > > The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that > engages youth ages 18 - 24 in team - based community service. > Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be > trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, > CPR and first aid. > Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the > need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a > lifetime! > If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, > travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit > for you or someone you know! > What else you should know: aside from helping their country, > corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an > education award upon successful completion of the program. > Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and > insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. > > For More information, please visit our website at: > www.americorps.gov/nccc > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu > cco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4435 (20090917) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 06:08:53 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:08:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <4ab2c9aa.9513f30a.0409.1000@mx.google.com> References: <4ab2c9aa.9513f30a.0409.1000@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <409c235c0909172308s6299b62aw5086d02ff3dbaa1b@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will here. Please keep that in mind as you read. i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess that those who do are in the minority. 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction be"that person should have had better skills and that would have saved them"? On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: > Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine won't. > you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a to > point b. I hate it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah Jevnikar > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > > This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this problem > completely. > Sarah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah alawami > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > > I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just > listen to trafic paterns? > > Silent signals, hazardous crossings > > Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind > > > > By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 > > > > Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily > negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at the > Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested > crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. > > > > The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and > other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the > traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. > > > > "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native said. > > "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I > > think I'll have to find a different way.'' > > > > Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another > audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for the > blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 > audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city of > making maintenance a low priority. > > > > Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its > streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has failed > to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible > crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they say, > is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack the > devices. > > > > "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob > Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done itself > proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' > > > > City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on > requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which also > fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to keep > signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if > pedestrians notify officials. > > > > "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely on > them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston Transportation > Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We > really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't > working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' > > > > Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty > signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. > > > > But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, > in > Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's > busiest > intersections feel like a roll of the dice. > > > > "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline > Downing, > a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide > Dog > Users of Massachusetts. > > > > Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as > his > guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one > day > last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping > signal > is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all > four > crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested > them, > five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, > designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out > by > heavy morning traffic. > > > > "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' > > > > He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state > Commission > for the Blind about the problem. > > > > "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. > > > > To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added > irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install > more > audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans > with > Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, > such > as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say > > they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can > cost > more than $10,000. > > > > Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse > for > the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully > lobbied > the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said > that > while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation > officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible > signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. > > > > Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even > suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every > intersection, > saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. > > > > "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris > Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We > believe a > blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is > learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' > > > > The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of > malfunction demonstrate their limits. > > > > But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, > especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow > speeds. > Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than > sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars > > meet certain decibel requirements. > > > > "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians > are > safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to > determine > speed and direction of the traffic.'' > > > > But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and > that > cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and > keeping them working. > > > > "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace > of > mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then > they > don't work from one day to the next.'' > > > > C Copyright > > 2009 The New York Times Company > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com > mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 06:20:33 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:20:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <409c235c0909172308s6299b62aw5086d02ff3dbaa1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4ab2c9aa.9513f30a.0409.1000@mx.google.com> <409c235c0909172308s6299b62aw5086d02ff3dbaa1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <409c235c0909172320y14ca49b1tf4d3d777a99b7d94@mail.gmail.com> Dear list, Something I think I would like to add is that i was very fortunate to have been trainned at one of our three training centers, and I believe that the training I recieved made the difference in me becoming a confident traveler. something that I think I've done a decent job of stating as well as others on this list is that not everyone is so lucky. On 9/17/09, Darian Smith wrote: > Hello all, > now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and > sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will > here. Please keep that in mind as you read. > i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get > good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. > 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess > that those who do are in the minority. > 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's > forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due > with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection > sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an > Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I > am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every > single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel > effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or > by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught > way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same > time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. > I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind > person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction > be"that person should have had better skills and that would have > saved them"? > > On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: >> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine won't. >> you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a >> to >> point b. I hate it. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Sarah Jevnikar >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> >> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this >> problem >> completely. >> Sarah >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Sarah alawami >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> >> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just >> listen to trafic paterns? >> >> Silent signals, hazardous crossings >> >> Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind >> >> >> >> By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 >> >> >> >> Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily >> negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at >> the >> Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested >> crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. >> >> >> >> The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and >> other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the >> traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. >> >> >> >> "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native >> said. >> >> "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I >> >> think I'll have to find a different way.'' >> >> >> >> Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another >> audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for >> the >> blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 >> audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city >> of >> making maintenance a low priority. >> >> >> >> Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its >> streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has >> failed >> to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible >> crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they >> say, >> is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack >> the >> devices. >> >> >> >> "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob >> Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done >> itself >> proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' >> >> >> >> City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on >> requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which >> also >> fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to >> keep >> signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if >> pedestrians notify officials. >> >> >> >> "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely >> on >> them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston >> Transportation >> Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We >> really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't >> working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' >> >> >> >> Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty >> signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. >> >> >> >> But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, >> in >> Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's >> busiest >> intersections feel like a roll of the dice. >> >> >> >> "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline >> Downing, >> a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide >> Dog >> Users of Massachusetts. >> >> >> >> Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as >> his >> guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one >> day >> last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping >> signal >> is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all >> four >> crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested >> them, >> five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, >> designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out >> by >> heavy morning traffic. >> >> >> >> "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' >> >> >> >> He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state >> Commission >> for the Blind about the problem. >> >> >> >> "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. >> >> >> >> To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added >> irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install >> more >> audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans >> with >> Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, >> such >> as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say >> >> they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can >> cost >> more than $10,000. >> >> >> >> Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse >> for >> the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully >> lobbied >> the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said >> that >> while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation >> officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible >> signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. >> >> >> >> Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even >> suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every >> intersection, >> saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. >> >> >> >> "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris >> Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We >> believe a >> blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is >> learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' >> >> >> >> The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of >> malfunction demonstrate their limits. >> >> >> >> But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, >> especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow >> speeds. >> Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than >> sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars >> >> meet certain decibel requirements. >> >> >> >> "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians >> are >> safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to >> determine >> speed and direction of the traffic.'' >> >> >> >> But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and >> that >> cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and >> keeping them working. >> >> >> >> "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace >> of >> mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then >> they >> don't work from one day to the next.'' >> >> >> >> C Copyright >> >> 2009 The New York Times Company >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------ >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ >> >> <*> Your email settings: >> Individual Email | Traditional >> >> <*> To change settings online go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join >> (Yahoo! ID required) >> >> <*> To change settings via email: >> mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com >> mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com >> >> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >> >> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 12:44:24 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:44:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) In-Reply-To: <409c235c0909172235sc4dfd9dgd4ff394b76326160@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <58031E63D833441EAA136F647EE57E31@Rufus> NCC was actually my first choice, but I was an idiot and missed the deadline. I wound up doing a program under the National Direct Program and got a placement in Washington DC by way of Notre Dame AmeriCorps. Other organizations may do it differently, but ours had a regional orientation at the beginning of the service and then a national conference in the middle. In the local area there were about fifteen AmeriCorps members at six or so different sites. We had a general team meeting every two weeks, and this was nice to help build cohesion and compare notes on our experience. I learned a lot about the plight of the people on my case load, things not accurately portrayed by the media, and I learned a lot about nonprofit management. Anyway, I mentioned the different programs under AmeriCorps to make the point that you are bound to find something that works for you. For people with no work experience up to the point of college graduation this is certainly a good item to put on your resume, and although my program required members to be 21 and older, some programs will allow you to begin at the age of 18 before college is completed. Joe Orozco "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowd."--Max Lucado -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:35 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) Yes, as Joe so accurately pointed out, there are multiple oppertunities within AmeriCorps. Their are Five basic Branches... SeniorCorps, Learn and Serve America, Vista and NCCC. If you check out the americorps website you will find out about all of them. Where did/do you both work? On 9/17/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > I worked with refugee families and victims of human trafficking. It's > a noble job and a good way to get a taste of the real world in a way > to connect with real people. I hope others will consider AmeriCorps, > and be aware that Darian's promotion is but one component of the federal program. > There are other areas for you to choose from. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:30 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps > (NCCC) > > Hi Darien > > I also am doing an AmeriCorps program--Unfortunately, I'm done at the > end of this month. I help place public defender clients into drug > rehab programs. > I really enjoy it! Has anybody else on here ever done AmeriCorps? > What have you guys done? > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darian Smith" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > ; "cabs-talk" > Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:32 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) > > > Hi all, > I was going through some old files and found a recruitment write-up > i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would > be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are > wanting to change the world. > Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members > of your local student divisions. > have a great day, > Darian > > p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about the > program. > > AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! > > The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that > engages youth ages 18 - 24 in team - based community service. > Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be > trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, > CPR and first aid. > Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the > need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a > lifetime! > If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, > travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit > for you or someone you know! > What else you should know: aside from helping their country, > corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an > education award upon successful completion of the program. > Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and > insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. > > For More information, please visit our website at: > www.americorps.gov/nccc > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu > cco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm > ail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4436 (20090918) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4436 (20090918) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From merisa.musemic at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 14:19:59 2009 From: merisa.musemic at gmail.com (Merisa Musemic) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:19:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Media Player and MP3 files Message-ID: Hi NABSTERS! I know that Windows Media player requires a plugin so that it can creat Mp3 files. But How do I set my windows mediaplayer to rip mp3 files automatically when I insert a CD. I use Windows Media player 10. Thanks! Merisa From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 15:08:32 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:08:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> yeah my first semester of college i would have people always coming up and saying "hey teal i am in your sociology class" or another class i was taking and its like....so are 30 other people? i would just say oh hey like i knew who they were and carry on a 30 min conversation never really knowing who it was -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christina Mitchell" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:46 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? I've done this myself. Sometimes the perfume can be so strong that you could just identify them when they pass by you. But what if you run into a few other people who wear the same perfume? As you've stated you can't always tell. Voices usually help me, but sometimes one voice may sound the same as the other and so I'd get one person's name mixed with the other. I just get them to refresh my memory by saying who they are again. "excuse me no disrespect, but can you please not do that because to us that's considered inappropriate." is a way to approach someone in your case. Hope this helps. On 9/17/09, Jedi wrote: > NABSters: > > I recently joined a health club. Naturally, I have to deal with curious > people who figure they can ask me whatever whenever. I'm working on > finding ways to politely and firmly set boundaries as needed. For the > most part, things have been okay. I've had to explain a lot (which gets > old). But tonight, I experienced something so way out there that I just > didn't know what to say or do! > > We'd just finished up a guest lecture. One of the other club members > and I got to talking. Just before we planned to part ways, she said > that I could identify her by the way she smelled. At thesame time, she > stuck her wrist in front of my nose and told me to smell her perfume! I > was mortified, and all I could think to say was Ëxcuse me?"as I > recoiled. Apparently, she and this other blind guy (someone I happen to > know( have this running joke that he can identify her by her scent. She > figured then that that's how all blind people identify others. I tried > to explain that this isn't so, and I think that she figured out quickly > that her behavior was definitely inappropriate. > > I would like to know others on list have done in similar situations. > > Thanks. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com > -- Christina, bilateral facial cleft and total blindness. Beyond the face is a heart. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From RWest at nfb.org Fri Sep 18 15:16:22 2009 From: RWest at nfb.org (West, Renee) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:16:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?NFB-NEWSLINE=AE_Is_Pleased_to_Announce_th?= =?iso-8859-1?q?e__Addition_of_Science_News_magazine?= Message-ID: NFB-NEWSLINE® has recently added Science News magazine to its roster of over 300 publications. Published since 1922, this award-winning biweekly news magazine is written for science professionals and others interested in science, medicine, technology and physics. Content provides new development updates and discusses their scientific and real-life applications. Articles cover the environment, nutrition, agronomy, chemistry, research, development policy, mathematics, computers, behavioral sciences, astronomy, biology, materials science, biomedicine, life sciences, physics and technology. In print, the magazine reaches nearly 130,000 subscribers and more than one million readers. *** With a wide variety of publications available for free at any time day or night, to anyone who cannot read the printed word, NFB-NEWSLINE® is the ready and reliable source for information on hometown and global events and breaking news stories. Subscribers can access NFB-NEWSLINE® ‘s roster of publications as well as TV listings via any touch-tone phone, over a secure, text-only Web site, or by speedy download to a digital talking-book player. For more information about, or to sign up for, NFB-NEWSLINE®, please visit www.nfbnewsline.org. To read Science News and over 300 other publications online or on your digital talking-book player, please visit www.nfbnewslineonline.org today! Renee West Manager, Marketing and Outreach Sponsored Technology Programs NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 200 East Wells Street Baltimore MD 21230 Phone: (410) 659-9314 ext. 2411 Fax: (410) 659-5129 Websites: www.nfb.org; www.nfbnewsline.org; www.nfbnewslineonline.org There is a Braille literacy crisis in America. You can be part of the solution. Buy the Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar now! From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 15:20:26 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:20:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals References: <4ab2c9aa.9513f30a.0409.1000@mx.google.com><409c235c0909172308s6299b62aw5086d02ff3dbaa1b@mail.gmail.com> <409c235c0909172320y14ca49b1tf4d3d777a99b7d94@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <80E04CDB665947848A953487BCDFCCF2@teal6e6857f643> yeah in louisville even though most of the walk signs talked they taught you to go with the surge. Same as New York when i went to get my first guide dog. Some of their walk signs talked or chirped but there again they wouldnt let you push the button. You had to wait for the surge and know when to go. As far as making me more confident in my orientation the dog was the best thing that couldve happened. I can be in a place i dont know very well and heel him around with no problems. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > Dear list, > Something I think I would like to add is that i was very fortunate > to have been trainned at one of our three training centers, and I > believe that the training I recieved made the difference in me > becoming a confident traveler. something that I think I've done a > decent job of stating as well as others on this list is that not > everyone is so lucky. > > On 9/17/09, Darian Smith wrote: >> Hello all, >> now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and >> sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will >> here. Please keep that in mind as you read. >> i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get >> good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. >> 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess >> that those who do are in the minority. >> 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's >> forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due >> with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection >> sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an >> Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I >> am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every >> single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel >> effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or >> by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught >> way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same >> time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. >> I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind >> person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction >> be"that person should have had better skills and that would have >> saved them"? >> >> On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: >>> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine >>> won't. >>> you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a >>> to >>> point b. I hate it. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Sarah Jevnikar >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >>> >>> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this >>> problem >>> completely. >>> Sarah >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Sarah alawami >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >>> >>> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just >>> listen to trafic paterns? >>> >>> Silent signals, hazardous crossings >>> >>> Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind >>> >>> >>> >>> By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 >>> >>> >>> >>> Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily >>> negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at >>> the >>> Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested >>> crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. >>> >>> >>> >>> The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and >>> other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the >>> traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. >>> >>> >>> >>> "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native >>> said. >>> >>> "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I >>> >>> think I'll have to find a different way.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another >>> audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for >>> the >>> blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 >>> audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the >>> city >>> of >>> making maintenance a low priority. >>> >>> >>> >>> Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its >>> streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has >>> failed >>> to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible >>> crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they >>> say, >>> is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack >>> the >>> devices. >>> >>> >>> >>> "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob >>> Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done >>> itself >>> proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on >>> requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which >>> also >>> fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to >>> keep >>> signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker >>> if >>> pedestrians notify officials. >>> >>> >>> >>> "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who >>> rely >>> on >>> them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston >>> Transportation >>> Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We >>> really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they >>> aren't >>> working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty >>> signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. >>> >>> >>> >>> But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, >>> in >>> Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's >>> busiest >>> intersections feel like a roll of the dice. >>> >>> >>> >>> "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline >>> Downing, >>> a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide >>> Dog >>> Users of Massachusetts. >>> >>> >>> >>> Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as >>> his >>> guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one >>> day >>> last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping >>> signal >>> is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all >>> four >>> crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested >>> them, >>> five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, >>> designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out >>> by >>> heavy morning traffic. >>> >>> >>> >>> "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state >>> Commission >>> for the Blind about the problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. >>> >>> >>> >>> To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added >>> irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install >>> more >>> audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans >>> with >>> Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, >>> such >>> as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say >>> >>> they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can >>> cost >>> more than $10,000. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse >>> for >>> the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully >>> lobbied >>> the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said >>> that >>> while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation >>> officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible >>> signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. >>> >>> >>> >>> Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even >>> suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every >>> intersection, >>> saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. >>> >>> >>> >>> "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris >>> Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We >>> believe a >>> blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is >>> learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of >>> malfunction demonstrate their limits. >>> >>> >>> >>> But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, >>> especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow >>> speeds. >>> Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than >>> sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars >>> >>> meet certain decibel requirements. >>> >>> >>> >>> "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians >>> are >>> safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to >>> determine >>> speed and direction of the traffic.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and >>> that >>> cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and >>> keeping them working. >>> >>> >>> >>> "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace >>> of >>> mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then >>> they >>> don't work from one day to the next.'' >>> >>> >>> >>> C Copyright >>> >>> 2009 The New York Times Company >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------ >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ >>> >>> <*> Your email settings: >>> Individual Email | Traditional >>> >>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join >>> (Yahoo! ID required) >>> >>> <*> To change settings via email: >>> mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com >>> mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com >>> >>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >>> >>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 16:46:07 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:46:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) In-Reply-To: <58031E63D833441EAA136F647EE57E31@Rufus> References: <409c235c0909172235sc4dfd9dgd4ff394b76326160@mail.gmail.com> <58031E63D833441EAA136F647EE57E31@Rufus> Message-ID: <409c235c0909180946i678183dcvaf06fa92d6ae1b15@mail.gmail.com> I knew what I wanted to do from the get-go. Some years ago, I had met a NCC team ( NCCC is team-based) at the colorado center for the blind. They were working on one of the classrooms and I was a summer student at the time. Years had passed and every once and a while I was reminded and encouraged to join the program until one day I did. Let me say, that there were alot of challanges beyond those of a corps member who joins and adjusts to being away from home or with a new set of people. As you might imagine, it was more of a challange to be allowed to do tasks and use tools that my team mates could do. I believe the best gage of their expectations came from a conversation my team leader and I had when she tole me that her supervisor back on campus gave her strict instructions not to allow me to use any power tool ( a conversation that, of course, they did not have with me). That was but a small piece of a educational and great time for many reasons. I went to my first Crawfish boil and fish fry as well. And upon joining my shuffle round team in alabama; I had never listened to so much country in my life, lol. i gainned friends, some from New york to seattle and they are all dear to me and we've all been there for eachother; it was so amazing to look back and consider. it is worth noting that there are many many ways you can serve your community through national and community service, I just found a program that fit what I personally wanted to do. I believe that I'm not done serving just because I finished my term in NCCC. I actually want to see service as a movement alive in well in the NFb, maybe one day in a divisional form not much different than that of nabs, as that can show others that we are ready willing and able to serve our communities and are not simply an object of need that you see on the street. The particular branch of americorps I was in had very little exposure to blindness, and when leadership oppertunities were presented, I had to push a little to get the chance to contribute my skills. Still, there is a long way to go in this branch (maybe not in other, maybe more so in others). i can go back to the time when I started applying for team leader positions; though I was asked to be interviewed by four campuses, no offers came out of those interviews. I came to understand that most of the people who got excepted for positionson campuses were people who served in the same summer of service program that I did and were corps members like I was, so I had wondered why they didn't at least have me considered as an alternate for any possible openings. Again, that was one program. and I think for one story in one branch there are twenty successes, it's just that NCCC needed to see that i was more than a blind guy in an americorps uniform, because all of their project sponsors did. And that's what can happen if we work on community service as a part of what we do, we will be changing what it means to be blind in another important and real way. On 9/18/09, Joe Orozco wrote: > NCC was actually my first choice, but I was an idiot and missed the > deadline. I wound up doing a program under the National Direct Program and > got a placement in Washington DC by way of Notre Dame AmeriCorps. Other > organizations may do it differently, but ours had a regional orientation at > the beginning of the service and then a national conference in the middle. > In the local area there were about fifteen AmeriCorps members at six or so > different sites. We had a general team meeting every two weeks, and this > was nice to help build cohesion and compare notes on our experience. I > learned a lot about the plight of the people on my case load, things not > accurately portrayed by the media, and I learned a lot about nonprofit > management. Anyway, I mentioned the different programs under AmeriCorps to > make the point that you are bound to find something that works for you. For > people with no work experience up to the point of college graduation this is > certainly a good item to put on your resume, and although my program > required members to be 21 and older, some programs will allow you to begin > at the age of 18 before college is completed. > > Joe Orozco > > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the > crowd."--Max Lucado > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:35 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community > Corps (NCCC) > > Yes, as Joe so accurately pointed out, there are multiple > oppertunities within AmeriCorps. Their are Five basic Branches... > SeniorCorps, Learn and Serve America, Vista and NCCC. If you > check out the americorps website you will find out about all of them. > Where did/do you both work? > > > > On 9/17/09, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I worked with refugee families and victims of human > trafficking. It's >> a noble job and a good way to get a taste of the real world in a way >> to connect with real people. I hope others will consider AmeriCorps, >> and be aware that Darian's promotion is but one component of > the federal program. >> There are other areas for you to choose from. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >> crowd."--Max Lucado >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena >> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:30 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps >> (NCCC) >> >> Hi Darien >> >> I also am doing an AmeriCorps program--Unfortunately, I'm done at the >> end of this month. I help place public defender clients into drug >> rehab programs. >> I really enjoy it! Has anybody else on here ever done AmeriCorps? >> What have you guys done? >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darian Smith" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> ; "cabs-talk" >> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:32 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) >> >> >> Hi all, >> I was going through some old files and found a recruitment > write-up >> i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would >> be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are >> wanting to change the world. >> Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members >> of your local student divisions. >> have a great day, >> Darian >> >> p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about the >> program. >> >> AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! >> >> The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that >> engages youth ages 18 - 24 in team - based community service. >> Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be >> trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, >> CPR and first aid. >> Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the >> need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a >> lifetime! >> If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, >> travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit >> for you or someone you know! >> What else you should know: aside from helping their country, >> corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an >> education award upon successful completion of the program. >> Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and >> insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. >> >> For More information, please visit our website at: >> www.americorps.gov/nccc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu >> cco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gm >> ail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 4436 (20090918) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4436 (20090918) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 18:07:30 2009 From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:07:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Media Player and MP3 files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4804d1140909181107l27e03764oe9021d9c2d03a39b@mail.gmail.com> To save files as mp3, you need to do the following: Wehn in windows media player's main window, you will go to the tools menu by hitting alt t. Go down to options. Hit enter and there is a multi-page dialog box, so control tab until you get to the rip music page. Then if you tab through there it should have an option for format, and you choose mp3. Tried to explain this as simple as I can, so hope this helps. Anyway if you don't find it, let me know so that I can further assist you. Ashley On 9/18/09, Merisa Musemic wrote: > Hi NABSTERS! I know that Windows Media player requires a plugin so > that it can creat Mp3 files. But How do I set my windows mediaplayer > to rip mp3 files automatically when I insert a CD. I use Windows Media > player 10. > Thanks! > Merisa > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com > From mewhalen at wisc.edu Fri Sep 18 19:08:15 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:08:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> I dunno. I think that's possibly a good way to get to know people and make friends. At leasat they told you they had a class with you. I had the happen my freshman year and got in a study group that way and am still good friends with one of the girls from that group. I don't think that saying, "Hey, I think you're in class x with me" is blindness specific. It just gives you a commmon ground to start on and possibly a foundation for a friendship as you get to know each other better. I do agree about the perfume thing, though. That would be a little bit awkward. Meghan From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 21:06:33 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:06:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com><54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com><2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> Message-ID: <00c701ca38a3$e816e640$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> If I don't really know who is saying hi to me I ask them to state there name and once I hear a name I know who the person is. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >I dunno. I think that's possibly a good way to get to know people and make >friends. At leasat they told you they had a class with you. I had the >happen my freshman year and got in a study group that way and am still good >friends with one of the girls from that group. I don't think that saying, >"Hey, I think you're in class x with me" is blindness specific. It just >gives you a commmon ground to start on and possibly a foundation for a >friendship as you get to know each other better. > > I do agree about the perfume thing, though. That would be a little bit > awkward. > > Meghan > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From amylsabo at comcast.net Fri Sep 18 21:38:29 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:38:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Media Player and MP3 files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <497675828.2900771253309909740.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello marissa, as to ripping music into mp3 format there's anoother method besides media player and, it's a ripping software. it's called expressrip. you can download the software for free or buy the professional version through their web site. i don't know the exxact web address for it but, if you google cd ripping softwware you will find it! i hope this information has helped you out! take care and have fun ripping! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Merisa Musemic To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:19:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Windows Media Player and MP3 files Hi NABSTERS! I know that Windows Media player requires a plugin so that it can creat Mp3 files. But How do I set my windows mediaplayer to rip mp3 files automatically when I insert a CD. I use Windows Media player 10. Thanks! Merisa _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From jaedpo96 at aol.com Fri Sep 18 22:00:01 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:00:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish In-Reply-To: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC06C280A6DACB-2640-243D9@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> Hi my name is Jason and I am taking spanish. I use a braille note, and my vision teacher is ordering me the spanish program. She says that it is hard to use. I think the school system might order me a laptop. Maybe if you give me the commands too, then I can use the laptop in spanish class. My spanish teacher told me to avoid the accent marks until I get the spanish program on my braille note. -----Original Message----- From: Harry Hogue To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 3:55 am Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish Hi Lindsay, You can change your keyboard layout to write in Spanish, at least in Windows. Let me know if you're interested in knowing how to do this and I can tell you how. It allows you to press the apostrophe followed by the letter you want accented, and shift with some other symbols--the inverted question mark, exclamation point, etc. I can give you the key commands, bu the best thing to do, I've found, is once you ahve it changed over, just turn JAWS or Voiceover to read characters and play around with the different symbols. I use a Focus 40 with JAWS, so I don't know if my display functions different as far as table layout, but I switch mine to ESP 438 or something like that. It's the only "esp" in there. You can, of course, always use another table, but those are the traditional symbols for what I guess is considered official Spanish Braille. Please odn't hesitate to write me off list if you have any other questions or need help with Spanish or whatever. It's a great language. Harry --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Lindsay Yazzolino wrote: > From: Lindsay Yazzolino > Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:51 AM > Hi, > I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you > could tell > me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols > correctly. > I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to > be able to > read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would > also > greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this > with JAWS > as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish > symbols, > perhaps using unicode? Thanks. > > Lindsay > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Sep 18 22:33:54 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:33:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) References: <007701ca37f7$221e47a0$0401a8c0@Serene> <409c235c0909172235sc4dfd9dgd4ff394b76326160@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005701ca38b0$1ad533a0$0401a8c0@Serene> I work at the Public Defenders Office in Newark, NJ. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:35 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) > Yes, as Joe so accurately pointed out, there are multiple > oppertunities within AmeriCorps. Their are Five basic Branches... > SeniorCorps, Learn and Serve America, Vista and NCCC. If you check > out the americorps website you will find out about all of them. > Where did/do you both work? > > > > On 9/17/09, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I worked with refugee families and victims of human trafficking. It's a >> noble job and a good way to get a taste of the real world in a way to >> connect with real people. I hope others will consider AmeriCorps, and be >> aware that Darian's promotion is but one component of the federal >> program. >> There are other areas for you to choose from. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the >> crowd."--Max Lucado >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Serena >> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:30 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community >> Corps (NCCC) >> >> Hi Darien >> >> I also am doing an AmeriCorps program--Unfortunately, I'm done >> at the end of this month. I help place public defender clients >> into drug rehab programs. >> I really enjoy it! Has anybody else on here ever done >> AmeriCorps? What have you guys done? >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darian Smith" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> ; "cabs-talk" >> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 4:32 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] AmeriCorps national Civilian Community Corps (NCCC) >> >> >> Hi all, >> I was going through some old files and found a recruitment write-up >> i created last year as a member of AmeriCorps, and thought it would >> be of good use to all of you amazingly energetic students, that are >> wanting to change the world. >> Please feel free to pass it on to your friends, and other members >> of your local student divisions. >> have a great day, >> Darian >> >> p.s. feel freee to contact me if you have any questions about >> the program. >> >> AmeriCorps *NCCC: 15 years of getting things done! >> >> The national civilian community corps is an AmeriCorps program that >> engages youth ages 18 - 24 in team - based community service. >> Members come from all over the country to an assigned campus to be >> trained on needed skills such as conflict resolution, team building, >> CPR and first aid. >> Members then get assigned to a team and sent to an area where the >> need for service is the greatest; and then starts an opportunity of a >> lifetime! >> If you are or know a young person who likes to meet new people, >> travel, and be a part of a team, then this program is a perfect fit >> for you or someone you know! >> What else you should know: aside from helping their country, >> corps members get a small living allowance, health benefits, and an >> education award upon successful completion of the program. >> Additionally, the program covers the cost for food and travel, and >> insures that members are housed during the 10 months of service. >> >> For More information, please visit our website at: >> www.americorps.gov/nccc >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacu >> cco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4435 (20090917) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Fri Sep 18 23:01:27 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help Message-ID: <1870347473.2927521253314887512.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello all, i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. i'm using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when i type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't read it back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how can i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also having the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them too. so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and i will talk to you all soon! hugs, from amy From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 18 23:02:43 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:02:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals Message-ID: <20090918230243.17556.6692@web2.serotek.com> NABSters: I have to agree that excellent cane travel teachers are few and far between. Or, let me rephrase that. There are loads of teachers who are excellent at what they teach regardless of philosophy, but very few who adopt a philosophy based on the idea that its respectable to be blind. Based on that, I also agree that there are loads of ill equipped blind persons roaming the streets who could definitely benefit from audible signals rather than just sitting at home. On the other hand, having signals everywhere isn't that fantastic either. They're loud for one thing, not to mention annoying to both the blind and sighted alike. They also give creedence to the notion that the blind are helpless without them. I personally propose a hybrid solution (no pun intended as I have no desire to see anyone killed by one regardless of skill level). I propose vibrotactile solutions that one can either use or ignore. Or, those who want traffic signals can carry an application on their cell phones that receives them much like our GPS solutions work. That way, those who want them can use them, there is little maintanence required, deaf/blind people can benefit, and the casual signal user can determine when to use them. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello all, > now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and > sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will > here. Please keep that in mind as you read. > i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get > good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. > 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess > that those who do are in the minority. > 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's > forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due > with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection > sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an > Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I > am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every > single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel > effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or > by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught > way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same > time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. > I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind > person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction > be"that person should have had better skills and that would have > saved them"? > On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: >> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine won't. >> you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a to >> point b. I hate it. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Sarah Jevnikar >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this problem >> completely. >> Sarah >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Sarah alawami >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just >> listen to trafic paterns? >> Silent signals, hazardous crossings >> Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind >> By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 >> Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily >> negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at the >> Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested >> crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. >> The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and >> other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the >> traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. >> "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native said. >> "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I >> think I'll have to find a different way.'' >> Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another >> audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for the >> blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 >> audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city of >> making maintenance a low priority. >> Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its >> streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has failed >> to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible >> crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they say, >> is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack the >> devices. >> "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob >> Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done itself >> proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' >> City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on >> requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which also >> fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to keep >> signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if >> pedestrians notify officials. >> "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely on >> them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston Transportation >> Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We >> really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't >> working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' >> Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty >> signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. >> But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, >> in >> Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's >> busiest >> intersections feel like a roll of the dice. >> "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline >> Downing, >> a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide >> Dog >> Users of Massachusetts. >> Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as >> his >> guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one >> day >> last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping >> signal >> is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all >> four >> crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested >> them, >> five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, >> designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out >> by >> heavy morning traffic. >> "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' >> He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state >> Commission >> for the Blind about the problem. >> "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. >> To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added >> irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install >> more >> audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans >> with >> Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, >> such >> as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say >> they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can >> cost >> more than $10,000. >> Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse >> for >> the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully >> lobbied >> the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said >> that >> while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation >> officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible >> signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. >> Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even >> suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every >> intersection, >> saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. >> "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris >> Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We >> believe a >> blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is >> learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' >> The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of >> malfunction demonstrate their limits. >> But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, >> especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow >> speeds. >> Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than >> sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars >> meet certain decibel requirements. >> "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians >> are >> safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to >> determine >> speed and direction of the traffic.'' >> But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and >> that >> cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and >> keeping them working. >> "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace >> of >> mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then >> they >> don't work from one day to the next.'' >> C Copyright >> 2009 The New York Times Company >> ------------------------------------ >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ >> <*> Your email settings: >> Individual Email | Traditional >> <*> To change settings online go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join >> (Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From serenacucco at verizon.net Fri Sep 18 23:08:07 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:08:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish References: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CC06C280A6DACB-2640-243D9@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009501ca38b4$e2677460$0401a8c0@Serene> Hi Jason Your Braille teacher says the Spanish program on the Braillenote is hard to use--that's a bunch of BS! Once you create a file, all you do is press enter and the letter "l" together to switch to Spanish. Just use the signs you hopefully already know for the accents and the "en" sign for questionmark and dot 3 for apostrophe. Remember, there are no contractions in Spanish Braille. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polansky" To: Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > Hi my name is Jason and I am taking spanish. I use a braille note, and my > vision teacher is ordering me the spanish program. She says that it is > hard to use. I think the school system might order me a laptop. Maybe if > you give me the commands too, then I can use the laptop in spanish class. > My spanish teacher told me to avoid the accent marks until I get the > spanish program on my braille note. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Hogue > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 3:55 am > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > > Hi Lindsay, > > You can change your keyboard layout to write in Spanish, at least in > Windows. Let me know if you're interested in knowing how to do this and I > can tell you how. It allows you to press the apostrophe followed by the > letter you want accented, and shift with some other symbols--the inverted > question mark, exclamation point, etc. I can give you the key commands, > bu the best thing to do, I've found, is once you ahve it changed over, > just turn JAWS or Voiceover to read characters and play around with the > different symbols. > > > I use a Focus 40 with JAWS, so I don't know if my display functions > different as far as table layout, but I switch mine to ESP 438 or > something like that. It's the only "esp" in there. You can, of course, > always use another table, but those are the traditional symbols for what I > guess is considered official Spanish Braille. Please odn't hesitate to > write me off list if you have any other questions or need help with > Spanish or whatever. It's a great language. > > Harry > > > --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Lindsay Yazzolino wrote: > >> From: Lindsay Yazzolino >> Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:51 AM >> Hi, >> I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you >> could tell >> me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols >> correctly. >> I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to >> be able to >> read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would >> also >> greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this >> with JAWS >> as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish >> symbols, >> perhaps using unicode? Thanks. >> >> Lindsay >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 00:13:39 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:13:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com><54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com><2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> Message-ID: <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643> this is true but in the same semester i had a group from the social psychology class that asked me to borrow my cane for a "breaking social norms" project. Then i found out they went into target and knocked stuff off the shelves. Also i had a friend tell me a mutual friend died her hair very blak "kind of like the only thing you see Teal" -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >I dunno. I think that's possibly a good way to get to know people and make >friends. At leasat they told you they had a class with you. I had the >happen my freshman year and got in a study group that way and am still good >friends with one of the girls from that group. I don't think that saying, >"Hey, I think you're in class x with me" is blindness specific. It just >gives you a commmon ground to start on and possibly a foundation for a >friendship as you get to know each other better. > > I do agree about the perfume thing, though. That would be a little bit > awkward. > > Meghan > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From mewhalen at wisc.edu Sat Sep 19 01:24:00 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:24:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> I think these situations are not remotely related other than the semester they fell in. I wouldn't be offended by the hair remark. I'm sure it wasn't meant as offensive. Friends joke with one and other, and if it made you uncomfortable, you could have told your friend so. I think this friend was just trying to figure out how to try how to explain the color of the hair. As for the cane, college and life is full of immature people. Again, this was not an attack on you personally, it was just people being stupid people. Did you know the folks you lent your cane to? I know I would have been hesitant to loan it out to anyone and hope you had a back-up in case they forgot said cane in Target or broke it. Just my thoughts, meghan From jty727 at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 01:57:57 2009 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:57:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help In-Reply-To: <1870347473.2927521253314887512.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1870347473.2927521253314887512.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <54d8179e0909181857s62144fb6gdf0a44fbbfea410a@mail.gmail.com> Hi Amy! My name is Justin Young and I'm not familiar with the messenger thing, but I do use skype. What are you trying to do with skype? I ask cuz once I know this I can help ya further. If you are trying to do the chat thing its not really that accessible in terms of the typing it in. I've been told you can get the JAWS scripts for it though. If you like I can do some research and get back to you on how to add this part. If you are trying to do like a call or something for the most part as far as I know its farely accessible. I really hope this helps and its great to meet you! Justin On 9/18/09, Amy Sabo wrote: > hello all, > > i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. i'm > using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when i > type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't read it > back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how can > i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also having > the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them too. > > so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and i > will talk to you all soon! > > > hugs, > from amy > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From empower at smart.net Sat Sep 19 06:27:42 2009 From: empower at smart.net (Jamal Mazrui) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 01:27:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Introducing Homer.NET -- rapid application development tools Message-ID: Now available at http://EmpowermentZone.com/hnsetup.zip Homer.NET is a collection of libraries and executables to assist rapid application development with .NET-based languages. It includes functionality related to accessing Internet data, creating GUI forms, and using screen reader APIs. This is the first public beta. Below is the overview section of the documentation (in Homer.NET.txt or Homer.NET.htm). Jamal Homer.NET Beta 0.72 September 18, 2009 Copyright 2009 by Jamal Mazrui GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) The word "Homer" is a brand name I sometimes use for developer tools I create. Homer.NET is a set of developer tools for the .NET platform. I suggest unarchiving hnsetup.zip into a new directory, e.g., C:\Homer.NET There are three assemblies that define types in the Homer namespace. HomerJax.dll defines the Jax class containing static methods for accessing Internet resources. HomerAcc.dll defines the Acc class containing static methods for producing speech through an active screen reader, and other accessibility-related tasks. HomerLbc.dll implements classes for creating Windows forms conveniently via "Layout by Code" rather than a visually-oriented designer. The Lbc class has static methods for a variety of canned dialogs. The LbcForm class inherits from System.Windows.Forms.Form, and has instance methods and properties for adding controls to a form, which may be either a modal dialog or modeless window. JaxForm.exe is an interpreter for source code files written in JScript .NET. Such code can access any of the Homer.NET functionality. JaxFormW.exe is a Windows-only version that does not use a console mode environment. That environment is useful when developing and debugging a .js script (e.g., the print function), but often not appropriate at the production stage. Interactive JScript (InJs) is a REPL (read execute print loop) environment for testing JScript expressions, including functionality of Homer.NET. Load the program by running InJs.exe. Batch files starting with the word "Compile" build the Homer.NET assemblies from source code using compilers provided with the .NET 2.0 SDK. Batch files beginning with the word "Run" execute a JScript .NET file dynamically. The .js files illustrate functionality of Homer.NET. Samples of Homer.NET include compiled C# and VBNET fruit basket programs implemented with Layout by Code. A more sophisticated sample is executed with JaxForm via RunLbcDemo.bat. It includes a tip on the status line for each control and a menu system. All of this is done without any need to reference pixel coordinates for location or size. More specific layout information could be added if desired. RunJaxDemo.bat illustrates HomerJax functionality, including how you can easily get the content type, source HTML, or plain text of a web page; how you can download a file to disk, how you can translate between languages via the Google API; how you can read recent RSS items from AccessibleWorld.org; how you can list MP3 files from AccessibleWorld.org; how you can get messages from the public timeline of Twitter.com, or poast a tweet if you have a Twitter account. The demo shows how data is converted from JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) to what I call COM exchange format, and how XML data may be conveniently accessed as well. The functionality and documentation of Homer.NET will improve over time in response to comments, questions, and suggestions. Code contributions are also welcome. From jaedpo96 at aol.com Sat Sep 19 10:34:17 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:34:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC072BE00AA21C-5B78-FB7@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Yes I was on CBS. If you live in the DC area I was on news channel 8. There is a youtube video of me shaking hands with president Obomah. Try to find it by searching Chicago olympics 2016. -----Original Message----- From: Albert Yoo To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:17 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah Will there be any media there? Will you be on tv Jason? > From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:09:58 -0400 > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > So jealous Jason. Tell us all about it once you get back. > Sarah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Polansky > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:58 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the > whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the > whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in > Chicago in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it > doesn't keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a > half away from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the > whitehouse. By the way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I > have been listening to the station and I like the variety of music. > From country to rock to pop to oldies you do it all, and there aren't > very many regular radio stations that play so much variety. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi All! > Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on > Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, > crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an > hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. > But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York > Party will take place!!! > Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join > me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which > will feature > Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for > good measure > Some cool oldies > A Cash It Or Trash It track > And most importantly.... > Your calls and/or requests > And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way > > Speaking of calls and requests... > You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at > the address > live at radio360.us > or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address > radio360usa > or by phone at > 516-717-4425 > It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be > celebrating the return to New York in style! > So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log > on to > http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html > to be connected to the program. > I hope to see you awesome people there! > Best regards, > David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager > http://www.radio360.us > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/albertyoo1%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From jaedpo96 at aol.com Sat Sep 19 10:46:56 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:46:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah In-Reply-To: <000401ca3662$07ae2a70$170a7f50$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> References: <000401ca3662$07ae2a70$170a7f50$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <8CC072DA42B47FC-5B78-1073@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Hi it's Jason. It was really cool meeting the president. Him and his wife gave a speech about why the olympics should be in Chicago in 2016. He sead that Chicago is a very diverse and has a lot of people from different cultures. Even though the olympians are comming from different parts of the world, they will be able to see some of there culture. We had a choice to watch olympians play judo, fncing, or gymnastics. I chose judo and flipped this big man on the ground. I fell down with him, and had a blast. Of dourse they had mats on the ground, so nobody got hurt. Theyy wanted Obomah to flip somebody, but he sead that he didn't think the secret service would like that. I got to shake Obomah's hand and talked to him. -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Jevnikar To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:09 pm Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah So jealous Jason. Tell us all about it once you get back. Sarah -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Polansky Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:58 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in Chicago in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it doesn't keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a half away from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the whitehouse. By the way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I have been listening to the station and I like the variety of music. From country to rock to pop to oldies you do it all, and there aren't very many regular radio stations that play so much variety. -----Original Message----- From: David Dunphy To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party Takes Place Tonight Hi All! Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York Party will take place!!! Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which will feature Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for good measure Some cool oldies A Cash It Or Trash It track And most importantly.... Your calls and/or requests And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way Speaking of calls and requests... You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at the address live at radio360.us or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address radio360usa or by phone at 516-717-4425 It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be celebrating the return to New York in style! So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log on to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html to be connected to the program. I hope to see you awesome people there! Best regards, David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto ronto.ca _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From chickerland at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 13:39:15 2009 From: chickerland at gmail.com (Zach) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 07:39:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] want to get more inoolved in education, with blind people? Message-ID: <04DDAD728F54428D9ED7282AB1DBC05B@LAHSSSLAPTOP> Hi all, Just a quick note to all the blind students and teachers out here. Please come join us to talk about education, ask questions, even quiz each other. Mainly focusing on education, come and share your knowledge! You can join by clicking on any of the next 2 links: blind-education-request at freelists.org with subject "subscribe" or http://freelists.org/list/blind-education Hope to see you there! Zach From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 17:05:09 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:05:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <20090918230243.17556.6692@web2.serotek.com> References: <20090918230243.17556.6692@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: I thought it was interesting in an earlier post; it looked like there may be a federal grant or piece of legislation pushing this concept? I am curious for although I find the signals to be very annoying, they are also inconsistent. Perhaps that is the largest annoyance to me, for I have to ignore the audible signals as they are relatively different per city. Savannah has a chirping signal in some areas, and then in others they have a counting man who announces when to walk. When I have been in Raleigh they have a beeping signal that turns into a space shuttle or something when it is time to cross. I can not help but laugh at what sighted people think up, and as I have already said, I end up ignoring it so I don't get ran over! However, my concern with the mobility seems to fall into the same category as the Braille literacy. It does not seem difficult to me to cross the road, and it looks like people from the Federation training centers would say the same. Regardless of the road issue, I am more concerned about the lack of principles in travel, and Jennifer Kennedy and I have had this conversation. With the right principles you ought to be able to take crappy sighted information and translate it into a working route for your own needs. As I explore new areas of my city or campus, I enjoy having the ability to be independent with the minor help of solicitation. Now I am sure part of this is a confidence matter, but there are plenty of technique issues to be addressed as well. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:03 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals NABSters: I have to agree that excellent cane travel teachers are few and far between. Or, let me rephrase that. There are loads of teachers who are excellent at what they teach regardless of philosophy, but very few who adopt a philosophy based on the idea that its respectable to be blind. Based on that, I also agree that there are loads of ill equipped blind persons roaming the streets who could definitely benefit from audible signals rather than just sitting at home. On the other hand, having signals everywhere isn't that fantastic either. They're loud for one thing, not to mention annoying to both the blind and sighted alike. They also give creedence to the notion that the blind are helpless without them. I personally propose a hybrid solution (no pun intended as I have no desire to see anyone killed by one regardless of skill level). I propose vibrotactile solutions that one can either use or ignore. Or, those who want traffic signals can carry an application on their cell phones that receives them much like our GPS solutions work. That way, those who want them can use them, there is little maintanence required, deaf/blind people can benefit, and the casual signal user can determine when to use them. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello all, > now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and > sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will > here. Please keep that in mind as you read. > i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get > good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. > 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess > that those who do are in the minority. > 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's > forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due > with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection > sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an > Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I > am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every > single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel > effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or > by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught > way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same > time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. > I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind > person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction > be"that person should have had better skills and that would have > saved them"? > On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: >> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine won't. >> you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a to >> point b. I hate it. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Sarah Jevnikar >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this problem >> completely. >> Sarah >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Sarah alawami >> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just >> listen to trafic paterns? >> Silent signals, hazardous crossings >> Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind >> By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 >> Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily >> negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at the >> Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested >> crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. >> The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and >> other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the >> traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. >> "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native said. >> "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I >> think I'll have to find a different way.'' >> Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another >> audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for the >> blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 >> audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the city of >> making maintenance a low priority. >> Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its >> streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has failed >> to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible >> crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they say, >> is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack the >> devices. >> "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob >> Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done itself >> proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' >> City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on >> requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which also >> fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to keep >> signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker if >> pedestrians notify officials. >> "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who rely on >> them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston Transportation >> Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We >> really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they aren't >> working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' >> Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty >> signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. >> But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, >> in >> Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's >> busiest >> intersections feel like a roll of the dice. >> "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline >> Downing, >> a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide >> Dog >> Users of Massachusetts. >> Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as >> his >> guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one >> day >> last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping >> signal >> is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all >> four >> crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested >> them, >> five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, >> designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out >> by >> heavy morning traffic. >> "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' >> He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state >> Commission >> for the Blind about the problem. >> "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. >> To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added >> irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install >> more >> audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans >> with >> Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, >> such >> as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say >> they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can >> cost >> more than $10,000. >> Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse >> for >> the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully >> lobbied >> the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said >> that >> while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation >> officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible >> signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. >> Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even >> suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every >> intersection, >> saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. >> "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris >> Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We >> believe a >> blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is >> learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' >> The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of >> malfunction demonstrate their limits. >> But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, >> especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow >> speeds. >> Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than >> sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars >> meet certain decibel requirements. >> "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians >> are >> safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to >> determine >> speed and direction of the traffic.'' >> But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and >> that >> cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and >> keeping them working. >> "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace >> of >> mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then >> they >> don't work from one day to the next.'' >> C Copyright >> 2009 The New York Times Company >> ------------------------------------ >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ >> <*> Your email settings: >> Individual Email | Traditional >> <*> To change settings online go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join >> (Yahoo! ID required) >> <*> To change settings via email: >> mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com >> mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com >> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >> ronto.ca >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co m > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 19:01:01 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:01:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals References: <20090918230243.17556.6692@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <558A57A834984145B6B1C65A4FC07F07@teal6e6857f643> you would think so. There are federal grants for just about anything that has to do with city or public land. even sidewalks or blended curbs or ramps. Probably talking to a state representative that is local would be who yu need to talk to. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >I thought it was interesting in an earlier post; it looked like there may >be > a federal grant or piece of legislation pushing this concept? I am curious > for although I find the signals to be very annoying, they are also > inconsistent. > > Perhaps that is the largest annoyance to me, for I have to ignore the > audible signals as they are relatively different per city. Savannah has a > chirping signal in some areas, and then in others they have a counting man > who announces when to walk. When I have been in Raleigh they have a > beeping > signal that turns into a space shuttle or something when it is time to > cross. > > I can not help but laugh at what sighted people think up, and as I have > already said, I end up ignoring it so I don't get ran over! > > However, my concern with the mobility seems to fall into the same category > as the Braille literacy. It does not seem difficult to me to cross the > road, > and it looks like people from the Federation training centers would say > the > same. Regardless of the road issue, I am more concerned about the lack of > principles in travel, and Jennifer Kennedy and I have had this > conversation. > With the right principles you ought to be able to take crappy sighted > information and translate it into a working route for your own needs. As I > explore new areas of my city or campus, I enjoy having the ability to be > independent with the minor help of solicitation. Now I am sure part of > this > is a confidence matter, but there are plenty of technique issues to be > addressed as well. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jedi > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:03 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > > NABSters: > > I have to agree that excellent cane travel teachers are few and far > between. Or, let me rephrase that. There are loads of teachers who are > excellent at what they teach regardless of philosophy, but very few who > adopt a philosophy based on the idea that its respectable to be blind. > Based on that, I also agree that there are loads of ill equipped blind > persons roaming the streets who could definitely benefit from audible > signals rather than just sitting at home. > > On the other hand, having signals everywhere isn't that fantastic > either. They're loud for one thing, not to mention annoying to both the > blind and sighted alike. They also give creedence to the notion that > the blind are helpless without them. > > I personally propose a hybrid solution (no pun intended as I have no > desire to see anyone killed by one regardless of skill level). I > propose vibrotactile solutions that one can either use or ignore. Or, > those who want traffic signals can carry an application on their cell > phones that receives them much like our GPS solutions work. That way, > those who want them can use them, there is little maintanence required, > deaf/blind people can benefit, and the casual signal user can determine > when to use them. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> Hello all, >> now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and >> sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will >> here. Please keep that in mind as you read. >> i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get >> good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. >> 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess >> that those who do are in the minority. >> 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's >> forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due >> with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection >> sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an >> Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I >> am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every >> single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel >> effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or >> by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught >> way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same >> time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. >> I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind >> person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction >> be"that person should have had better skills and that would have >> saved them"? > >> On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: >>> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine >>> won't. >>> you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a > to >>> point b. I hate it. > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >>> Of Sarah Jevnikar >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > >>> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this > problem >>> completely. >>> Sarah > > > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf >>> Of Sarah alawami >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM >>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > >>> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just >>> listen to trafic paterns? > >>> Silent signals, hazardous crossings > >>> Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind > > > >>> By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 > > > >>> Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily >>> negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at > the >>> Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested >>> crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. > > > >>> The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and >>> other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the >>> traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. > > > >>> "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native > said. > >>> "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I > >>> think I'll have to find a different way.'' > > > >>> Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another >>> audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for > the >>> blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 >>> audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the >>> city > of >>> making maintenance a low priority. > > > >>> Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its >>> streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has > failed >>> to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible >>> crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they > say, >>> is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack > the >>> devices. > > > >>> "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob >>> Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done > itself >>> proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' > > > >>> City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on >>> requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which > also >>> fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to > keep >>> signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker >>> if >>> pedestrians notify officials. > > > >>> "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who >>> rely > on >>> them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston > Transportation >>> Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We >>> really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they >>> aren't >>> working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' > > > >>> Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty >>> signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. > > > >>> But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, >>> in >>> Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's >>> busiest >>> intersections feel like a roll of the dice. > > > >>> "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline >>> Downing, >>> a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide >>> Dog >>> Users of Massachusetts. > > > >>> Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as >>> his >>> guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one >>> day >>> last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping >>> signal >>> is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all >>> four >>> crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested >>> them, >>> five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, >>> designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out >>> by >>> heavy morning traffic. > > > >>> "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' > > > >>> He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state >>> Commission >>> for the Blind about the problem. > > > >>> "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. > > > >>> To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added >>> irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install >>> more >>> audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans >>> with >>> Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, >>> such >>> as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say > >>> they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can >>> cost >>> more than $10,000. > > > >>> Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse >>> for >>> the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully >>> lobbied >>> the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said >>> that >>> while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation >>> officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible >>> signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. > > > >>> Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even >>> suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every >>> intersection, >>> saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. > > > >>> "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris >>> Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We >>> believe a >>> blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is >>> learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' > > > >>> The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of >>> malfunction demonstrate their limits. > > > >>> But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, >>> especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow >>> speeds. >>> Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than >>> sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars > >>> meet certain decibel requirements. > > > >>> "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians >>> are >>> safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to >>> determine >>> speed and direction of the traffic.'' > > > >>> But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and >>> that >>> cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and >>> keeping them working. > > > >>> "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace >>> of >>> mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then >>> they >>> don't work from one day to the next.'' > > > >>> C Copyright > >>> 2009 The New York Times Company > > > >>> ------------------------------------ > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ > >>> <*> Your email settings: >>> Individual Email | Traditional > >>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join >>> (Yahoo! ID required) > >>> <*> To change settings via email: >>> mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com >>> mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com > >>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > >>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>> ronto.ca > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co > m > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 19 20:53:07 2009 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:53:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org Message-ID: <018E88BFAE08459099D9D294CB02784F@windows4c0ed96> Hello All, Right now I only have a desktop computer. I am a returning, slightly older student, and I wonder how many of you feel a notebook or netbook computer is something you can not live without on campus? Also, in San Diego we have an organization called notebooks for students, which offers discounted lap tops for students, see link below. Has anyone had experience with this group? Best, Ginnie http://notebooksforstudents.org/who_we_are.htm From serenacucco at verizon.net Sat Sep 19 21:15:10 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:15:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah References: <000401ca3662$07ae2a70$170a7f50$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca> <8CC072DA42B47FC-5B78-1073@webmail-d038.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003701ca396e$45b7ce20$0401a8c0@Serene> Wow! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polansky" To: Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > Hi it's Jason. It was really cool meeting the president. Him and his wife > gave a speech about why the olympics should be in Chicago in 2016. He sead > that Chicago is a very diverse and has a lot of people from different > cultures. Even though the olympians are comming from different parts of > the world, they will be able to see some of there culture. We had a choice > to watch olympians play judo, fncing, or gymnastics. I chose judo and > flipped this big man on the ground. I fell down with him, and had a blast. > Of dourse they had mats on the ground, so nobody got hurt. Theyy wanted > Obomah to flip somebody, but he sead that he didn't think the secret > service would like that. I got to shake Obomah's hand and talked to him. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sarah Jevnikar > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 8:09 pm > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > So jealous Jason. Tell us all about it once you get back. > Sarah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Polansky > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:58 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] meeting president Obomah > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi everyone it's Jason. I am going to meat president Obomah at the > whitehouse tommorow. He is having me and some other kids come to the > whitehouse to promote physical fitness and the olympics to be in > Chicago in 2016. He wants us to show that even though we are blind, it > doesn't keep us from being physically fit. i only live an hour and a > half away from DC, so I am very lucky to be asked to go to the > whitehouse. By the way David I will tune in to the show on radio360, I > have been listening to the station and I like the variety of music. > From country to rock to pop to oldies you do it all, and there aren't > very many regular radio stations that play so much variety. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dunphy > To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:43 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] The Reschedule Return To New York Djd Invasion Party > Takes Place Tonight > > Hi All! > Just when I thought I'd be able to celebrate my return to New York on > Sunday night, the computer decided to disconnect from the internet, > crash the screen reader, and then, not let me back online for nearly an > hour, thus killing The Djd Invasion. > But tonight's a new night, and The Djd Invasion Return To New York > Party will take place!!! > Because this is a special show, it will start at a special time. Join > me at 8 PM eastern (7 PM central) for tonight's Djd Invasion, which > will feature > Some upbeat pop and country tunes, with some rock thrown in perhaps for > good measure > Some cool oldies > A Cash It Or Trash It track > And most importantly.... > Your calls and/or requests > And more...Plus what ever other surprises may come your way > > Speaking of calls and requests... > You can reach me by email, aol instant messenger, or msn messenger at > the address > live at radio360.us > or, when I'm on the microphone, you can call in by skype at the address > radio360usa > or by phone at > 516-717-4425 > It's awesome to be back in New York, so The Djd Invasion will be > celebrating the return to New York in style! > So to join the fun, save this email, and at 8 PM eastern tonight, log > on to > http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.html > to be connected to the program. > I hope to see you awesome people there! > Best regards, > David Dunphy, Radio360 Station Manager > http://www.radio360.us > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4427 (20090915) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto > ronto.ca > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 22:01:22 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:01:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org References: <018E88BFAE08459099D9D294CB02784F@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: <1F6808887C064DD2995AE8B54E406572@teal6e6857f643> whenever you say cannot live without on campus do you mean living on campus? I will say that my trusty 3 year old labtop with lots of wear and tear has a new keyboard, inverter and crashed at the end of my first semester but was rebooted. My trusty labtop will be with me to the end but i am going to upgrade to a netbook since they are much smaller and cheaper. Yes it is handy especially if you have a long break but not long enough to go home. However my labtop does not have an SD card reader but any newer one would have the new accomodations for other new technology. Really you just need a durable computer whether itbe a desktop or labtop or netbook that is your choice but are you taking any classes with in class writing? Or even in class research? If you were going to get a notebook or netbook i would say netbook is better because of size and price plus they can have XP. If you did go to a newer labtop you would be working with vista and soon windows 7. Good Luck in College -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "V Nork" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org > Hello All, Right now I only have a desktop computer. I am a returning, > slightly older student, and I wonder how many of you feel a notebook or > netbook computer is something you can not live without on campus? Also, > in San Diego we have an organization called notebooks for students, which > offers discounted lap tops for students, see link below. Has anyone had > experience with this group? Best, Ginnie > > > http://notebooksforstudents.org/who_we_are.htm > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Sep 19 23:23:40 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:23:40 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: <4AB567FC.2070109@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Wow. I'm sorry, but I had to chuckle at this only because I've had people mention that I should be able to recognize them by smell, but I've never had them take it quite that far. The one I get a lot is someone proclaiming that I or some other blind person they know can recognize them by touching their face. My dad was quite bad about this when I was young, to the point that for a while as a child I believed I could do it even. Of course I really can't with any degree of accuracy, but that's what happens when a parent is mis-informed. I don't see a lot of my father these days, but even as recent as a year ago I over heard him telling a room mate of his that when we meet, all she has to do is to let me feel her face and I'll know who she is from then on. I've told him several times that doesn't work, but he seems to be resistant to being educated about that. Probably because he used to enjoy watching me feel people's faces, and because I'm his son. Relatives can be harder to educate in some respects than strangers. I find, for me, the direct aproach works best. Or maybe it's that I'm a Computer Scientist by training and I really don't know of any other more tactful way to talk to people? LOL I usually just come right out and tell someone that they're mistaken about a particular quality or ability which I do or do not possess. In the case where someone does something like holding an arm up in front of my face, I tell them, politely of course (at least I think it's politely) that it isn't ok to do stuff like that. If they ask why not, and they seem like they really want to learn I usually have a talk with them in which I ask them if they'd do that to a sighted person. They almost always say no. I ask them why not, and they usually mention something about boundaries or space. I tell them that even though I can't see, I have the same boundaries and personal space needs. It seems to get the point across, at least most of the time. I'd give it about a 90% success rate. - -- Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone who desperately deserves it. Joseph C. Lininger, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtWf8AAoJEMh8jNraUiwq7LcH/Ai7y9Jm1r/6IKZ9DmiyxgwW tWeo+IHUK2WhiB4lzl2ic//BLC0EHRPvA96nJKcuXbJ4jZUwrVTvJt1wDg0Nkzwr Dlix/cfj5exqIlzMk6wHrRF9dwx78xu5Y0ttPKgKkPKisTmzgSCtW13HacFX9AsL /xrJraVOaLI4vKlwvIksBg0LS+wj4LZhETySWMWm7cg/Od4MEpb4CvEDEWCkBFFm NZcTmKsvxKXiH3J2+WcA8Yl1Cqf6pF7bszUCYF8zEwU3y4qKR3g01/wX33BHlE88 Sx6sftsRFe4dfsYGdw4wUH2KmBW5S8BYb/SY7o6iBBtdOlJZY4Q45qNqLVdS3b0= =YOsQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Sep 19 23:26:53 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:26:53 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4AB568BD.70904@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I really don't think that one is due to the blindness. Ok, let me correct that. I don't think it is entirely because of your blindness. I think they recognize you and remember your name at least in part because of the blindness. Let's face it, blindness is a characteristic that sets us apart to an extent and makes us easier to recognize. But the talking to you and all that? That's probably just someone being friendly. It could be related to the fact they recognized you, of course. People tend to be more apt to talk to someone if they recognize them and can remember who they are. - -- Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone who desperately deserves it. Joseph C. Lininger, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtWi9AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqM6YH/1zDkyRjqACjwOKPcG+SYtlz cns6vy6e1GFQOecasGlZcgoiqsNbQkJrVZ1x9YA0UnxMxBiNgCcMtZVFBVRav+vR 1iao/qtWMyNLXQMz8U5MP0PCQEOs+oMJMLfENYyXLzKgv0tV//eVwT57B+5OGbxC 6z0w46cCUXt2HLaEFf3tt60UNh+Uz9XoZBT9P3dLJrLiKDhA49bChnSBVnbxTmjD Ci5TzNerq3h3NBoSRmpY+6iURLRfSpVBTUQFq/vJJZNnj/y+kQuTeEwj9cOuI7WV y3PZXjXewSBL/YW4cbzuMsDMzMpi9EoHxJGq+wnRLhAPGyFSfNDP6wLfJGfGDr4= =Tk7w -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Sep 19 23:44:56 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 17:44:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643> <0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> Message-ID: <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Howdy Meghan and listers, Boy don't I know about the immature people thing. Hell, I was one of them. As a teenager, my blind friends and I used to have sword fights with our foldable aluminum canes. We would fold them at the half way joint so that they weren't unwieldy, then use them as pretend swords. We'd clash them together, growl at each other, etc. We were clingon warriers, see. Or sometimes old fashoned knights. Or sometimes, when we got older, there was no back story. It was just called "a cane fight". It provided a perfect way to make a whole ton of noise and show off for the girls sitting at a neighboring table. In reality what we succeeded in doing was making total asses of ourselves. Of course these days I have to behave myself. Not because I really want to, but because youthful exuberance isn't tolerated past a certain age, unfortunately. That and because I now use a carbon fiber cane, and it would snap with the first stroke I think. However, if the situation should arise, I wouldn't hesitate to take up the old aluminum foldable again to defend my or someone I care about's honor! LOL I'm joking about that last part. Or am I? - -- Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone who desperately deserves it. Joseph C. Lininger, Meghan Whalen wrote: > I think these situations are not remotely related other than the > semester they fell in. I wouldn't be offended by the hair remark. I'm > sure it wasn't meant as offensive. Friends joke with one and other, and > if it made you uncomfortable, you could have told your friend so. I > think this friend was just trying to figure out how to try how to > explain the color of the hair. > > As for the cane, college and life is full of immature people. Again, > this was not an attack on you personally, it was just people being > stupid people. Did you know the folks you lent your cane to? I know I > would have been hesitant to loan it out to anyone and hope you had a > back-up in case they forgot said cane in Target or broke it. > > Just my thoughts, > meghan > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtWz4AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqn9IH/iZxVLzxje9XB7TT6y1muoQJ f2q2+92yNbOP73KkKCO7hBiFJZdN78jgOjmVH//ayqwMywnEI6e/y2OH5pM5A12G U2/WMuBzngaiyLWWY4B8ejMIut+eLOBfSxrlXbDReEEje/Vqdyq+xbrmmf9ubpe5 4uWH3iCFMW/vep5fSqX6mOLttLDMIz9teqGipu86crraCGrHs5hteQ2RBoAES+Sh ckEq2054RYphib/pWlTHK5GOz5DlSA+vkwUstpeT+KuhJO5wXwLZX9JEis56+IXw W48jeBNHj5YhzCMlD/r2ueunGaMgeoEZRAdtzNOMslnQnwCZWw2Y+f/3naMHG9A= =XQbc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 00:40:48 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:40:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: haha me and some friends at the office for the blind center in kentucky....but they were jet i sword fights. As for protecting somebody you care about i resort to an air horn. No physical harm but i bet they will leave you alone or someone would come to help? You are always going to have people who stare and ask completely inappropriate questions. Me and my dad were in target and the cashier said "why doesnt she want to look at me? am i ugly?". If they stare smile and pull your pockets out and if they make inappropriate comments just smile and walk away or you can always tell them that hurtt your feelings and make them feel like a complete jackass. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Howdy Meghan and listers, > Boy don't I know about the immature people thing. Hell, I was one of > them. As a teenager, my blind friends and I used to have sword fights > with our foldable aluminum canes. We would fold them at the half way > joint so that they weren't unwieldy, then use them as pretend swords. > We'd clash them together, growl at each other, etc. We were clingon > warriers, see. Or sometimes old fashoned knights. Or sometimes, when we > got older, there was no back story. It was just called "a cane fight". > It provided a perfect way to make a whole ton of noise and show off for > the girls sitting at a neighboring table. In reality what we succeeded > in doing was making total asses of ourselves. > > Of course these days I have to behave myself. Not because I really want > to, but because youthful exuberance isn't tolerated past a certain age, > unfortunately. That and because I now use a carbon fiber cane, and it > would snap with the first stroke I think. However, if the situation > should arise, I wouldn't hesitate to take up the old aluminum foldable > again to defend my or someone I care about's honor! LOL I'm joking about > that last part. Or am I? > - -- > Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > who desperately deserves it. > Joseph C. Lininger, > Meghan Whalen wrote: >> I think these situations are not remotely related other than the >> semester they fell in. I wouldn't be offended by the hair remark. I'm >> sure it wasn't meant as offensive. Friends joke with one and other, and >> if it made you uncomfortable, you could have told your friend so. I >> think this friend was just trying to figure out how to try how to >> explain the color of the hair. >> >> As for the cane, college and life is full of immature people. Again, >> this was not an attack on you personally, it was just people being >> stupid people. Did you know the folks you lent your cane to? I know I >> would have been hesitant to loan it out to anyone and hope you had a >> back-up in case they forgot said cane in Target or broke it. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> meghan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtWz4AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqn9IH/iZxVLzxje9XB7TT6y1muoQJ > f2q2+92yNbOP73KkKCO7hBiFJZdN78jgOjmVH//ayqwMywnEI6e/y2OH5pM5A12G > U2/WMuBzngaiyLWWY4B8ejMIut+eLOBfSxrlXbDReEEje/Vqdyq+xbrmmf9ubpe5 > 4uWH3iCFMW/vep5fSqX6mOLttLDMIz9teqGipu86crraCGrHs5hteQ2RBoAES+Sh > ckEq2054RYphib/pWlTHK5GOz5DlSA+vkwUstpeT+KuhJO5wXwLZX9JEis56+IXw > W48jeBNHj5YhzCMlD/r2ueunGaMgeoEZRAdtzNOMslnQnwCZWw2Y+f/3naMHG9A= > =XQbc > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From amylsabo at comcast.net Sun Sep 20 02:00:41 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:00:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] aim 7 Message-ID: <1022570963.3183361253412041215.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello all, well, the subject says it all. i'm trying to update from aim 6 to aim 7 and, i cannot find it on aol's web site to update. so, does anyone know or has the link so i can update to aim version 7 from aim 6? because with version 7 now you can use email addresses to create buddies now. can someone send that to me asap?? thanks again and i will talk tto you all soon! hugs, from amy From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun Sep 20 02:41:59 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:41:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] aim 7 References: <1022570963.3183361253412041215.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <004101ca399b$ed2094d0$0401a8c0@Serene> I don't have the link, but just try googling it. Google's really pretty smart, if you think about it. Good luck. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Sabo" To: "NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:00 PM Subject: [nabs-l] aim 7 > hello all, > > well, the subject says it all. i'm trying to update from aim 6 to aim 7 > and, i cannot find it on aol's web site to update. so, does anyone know or > has the link so i can update to aim version 7 from aim 6? because with > version 7 now you can use email addresses to create buddies now. can > someone send that to me asap?? > > thanks again and i will talk tto you all soon! > > > hugs, > from amy > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sun Sep 20 03:13:01 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:13:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I think one of my favorites happened when I'd gone out one Saturday night. I was talking to a woman, and this guy came up behind me. He says, "Sir, you can't see her face, but she doesn't trust you." I responded with a laugh and said, "Well, she shouldn't, since she doesn't know me." And he says, dead serious, "No, I mean, she thinks you're dishonest. Or shifty maybe. I've been watching you. You're facing her and looking at her sometimes, but you haven't met her gaze the entire time you've been talking to her. You keep moving your eyes around." I pointed to my white cane and said, "no muscle control over the eyes I'm afraid." The girl I was talking to laughed, as did the guy who had tried to "help" me. So it was all friendly. However, I found it interesting because I'd been asked why I didn't make eye contact before, but never had someone assume it was for any sinister reason. Not and tell me they were assuming that, anyway. - -- Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone who desperately deserves it. Joseph C. Lininger, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtZ29AAoJEMh8jNraUiwq1ncH/0u8dAtr5DBaPjrgOwCF7rRC euRGKAy6IrE5UUlYJNnpbNOCtr4SwlUPkYSskQOEAukyUeddQ+PfgnFOu7C291Ts a4SYpUEA3fGQdXyYt9UE4BOTGewSBY7aXUaeUpxj5Mlu6HdJ0QHoJfqtViMETWok aC3Hqq47RP5GoIY52taDIbaqv6fgI5uzY+N1dwjNHCKx3ZUOQAVxBJwvOyBdfUHG fwN7GAs/6w2bnskWdoTID4hloVcziom5Wjvg3fohzvBBZC85lKiAZCgMzzF2lFSX y6ob+6lKY6DbyezjYNyLuMqJ/3ohAGQB0HrM793JwE4QJGnNDjq4ZLuqM6gmB7Y= =ByON -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 03:31:34 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:31:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> yeah i get that too but it doesnt make since....really who looks the other person directly in the eyes when they talk to them? I dont think i even did that back 3 years ago when i had 20/20 vision...dont think i wil now either since i am totally blind NLP.... -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > I think one of my favorites happened when I'd gone out one Saturday > night. I was talking to a woman, and this guy came up behind me. He > says, "Sir, you can't see her face, but she doesn't trust you." I > responded with a laugh and said, "Well, she shouldn't, since she doesn't > know me." And he says, dead serious, "No, I mean, she thinks you're > dishonest. Or shifty maybe. I've been watching you. You're facing her > and looking at her sometimes, but you haven't met her gaze the entire > time you've been talking to her. You keep moving your eyes around." I > pointed to my white cane and said, "no muscle control over the eyes I'm > afraid." The girl I was talking to laughed, as did the guy who had tried > to "help" me. So it was all friendly. However, I found it interesting > because I'd been asked why I didn't make eye contact before, but never > had someone assume it was for any sinister reason. Not and tell me they > were assuming that, anyway. > - -- > Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > who desperately deserves it. > Joseph C. Lininger, > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtZ29AAoJEMh8jNraUiwq1ncH/0u8dAtr5DBaPjrgOwCF7rRC > euRGKAy6IrE5UUlYJNnpbNOCtr4SwlUPkYSskQOEAukyUeddQ+PfgnFOu7C291Ts > a4SYpUEA3fGQdXyYt9UE4BOTGewSBY7aXUaeUpxj5Mlu6HdJ0QHoJfqtViMETWok > aC3Hqq47RP5GoIY52taDIbaqv6fgI5uzY+N1dwjNHCKx3ZUOQAVxBJwvOyBdfUHG > fwN7GAs/6w2bnskWdoTID4hloVcziom5Wjvg3fohzvBBZC85lKiAZCgMzzF2lFSX > y6ob+6lKY6DbyezjYNyLuMqJ/3ohAGQB0HrM793JwE4QJGnNDjq4ZLuqM6gmB7Y= > =ByON > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From jaedpo96 at aol.com Sun Sep 20 10:45:20 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 06:45:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org In-Reply-To: <018E88BFAE08459099D9D294CB02784F@windows4c0ed96> References: <018E88BFAE08459099D9D294CB02784F@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: <8CC07F695953733-4FA8-8471@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> I have a netbook and I like it. It is very lighweight, and is very fast. My Dad thinks it's faster than our desktop. He likes to use it for his studdying for work. I used to have a desktop that broke down because it was really old. My Mom asked Anne Taylor from the NFB about what computer she uses because she is the derector of the technology center. She uses a samsung netbook. It comes withwindows xp instead of windows vista. -----Original Message----- From: V Nork To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sat, Sep 19, 2009 4:53 pm Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org Hello All, Right now I only have a desktop computer. I am a returning, slightly older student, and I wonder how many of you feel a notebook or netbook computer is something you can not live without on campus? Also, in San Diego we have an organization called notebooks for students, which offers discounted lap tops for students, see link below. Has anyone had experience with this group? Best, Ginnie http://notebooksforstudents.org/who_we_are.htm _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com Sun Sep 20 13:35:34 2009 From: Rachel at BeckerConsultants.com (Rachel Becker) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:35:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org In-Reply-To: <8CC07F695953733-4FA8-8471@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Are you still using a BrailleNote also? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On Behalf Of Polansky Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 6:45 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org I have a netbook and I like it. It is very lighweight, and is very fast. My Dad thinks it's faster than our desktop. He likes to use it for his studdying for work. I used to have a desktop that broke down because it was really old. My Mom asked Anne Taylor from the NFB about what computer she uses because she is the derector of the technology center. She uses a samsung netbook. It comes withwindows xp instead of windows vista. -----Original Message----- From: V Nork To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sat, Sep 19, 2009 4:53 pm Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org Hello All, Right now I only have a desktop computer. I am a returning, slightly older student, and I wonder how many of you feel a notebook or netbook computer is something you can not live without on campus? Also, in San Diego we have an organization called notebooks for students, which offers discounted lap tops for students, see link below. Has anyone had experience with this group? Best, Ginnie http://notebooksforstudents.org/who_we_are.htm _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rachel%40beckerconsu ltants.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 17:16:40 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:16:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org References: <018E88BFAE08459099D9D294CB02784F@windows4c0ed96> <8CC07F695953733-4FA8-8471@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <886E277BE4834BAD8C9E17B2C9AF8164@teal6e6857f643> plus if it is anything like a labtop you can get more ram to speed it up -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Polansky" To: Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org >I have a netbook and I like it. It is very lighweight, and is very fast. My >Dad thinks it's faster than our desktop. He likes to use it for his >studdying for work. I used to have a desktop that broke down because it was >really old. My Mom asked Anne Taylor from the NFB about what computer she >uses because she is the derector of the technology center. She uses a >samsung netbook. It comes withwindows xp instead of windows vista. > > -----Original Message----- > From: V Nork > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Sent: Sat, Sep 19, 2009 4:53 pm > Subject: [nabs-l] netbooks for students dot org > > Hello All, Right now I only have a desktop computer. I am a returning, > slightly older student, and I wonder how many of you feel a notebook or > netbook computer is something you can not live without on campus? Also, > in San Diego we have an organization called notebooks for students, which > offers discounted lap tops for students, see link below. Has anyone had > experience with this group? Best, Ginnie > > > http://notebooksforstudents.org/who_we_are.htm > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 20 17:46:04 2009 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:46:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note References: Message-ID: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> Hi Rachel and all,, Do you feel the braille note is an alternative to a netbook? I have never had access to a braille note, sure I know I can read up on it, but it is wonderful to have thoughts from all of you great folks on the front lines of being students, so to speak. Thanks for sharing any expertise, Ginnie From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sun Sep 20 22:29:13 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 16:29:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net> <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Teal, LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more problems. After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my question. I always thought that at least to a point people learned these expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of vision and which must be picked up visually? - -- Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone who desperately deserves it. Joseph C. Lininger, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= =gV8x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 22:41:12 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 17:41:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643> <0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net> <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <423e6e460909201541x6ea8737csba7739777b1208a1@mail.gmail.com> Jedi, That’s really unfortunate, not to mention embarrassing for both you and the woman. I find that as I grow older my tolerance for this type of ignorance diminishes. I still try to stay patient though. If something like that happens again maybe you could say “I really like your perfume but honestly, that’s never been a good way for me to identify people. Besides, by the time we’re finished working out neither one of us is going to smell very pretty so it might be better for you to state your name when you want to come talk to me. At least until I become familiar with your voice.” I find that trying to defuse an awkward situation with humor usually helps and doesn’t make the person feel stupid. I’m sorry that happened to you. Domonique On 9/19/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > yeah i get that too but it doesnt make since....really who looks the other > person directly in the eyes when they talk to them? I dont think i even did > that back 3 years ago when i had 20/20 vision...dont think i wil now either > since i am totally blind NLP.... > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph C. Lininger" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:13 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> I think one of my favorites happened when I'd gone out one Saturday >> night. I was talking to a woman, and this guy came up behind me. He >> says, "Sir, you can't see her face, but she doesn't trust you." I >> responded with a laugh and said, "Well, she shouldn't, since she doesn't >> know me." And he says, dead serious, "No, I mean, she thinks you're >> dishonest. Or shifty maybe. I've been watching you. You're facing her >> and looking at her sometimes, but you haven't met her gaze the entire >> time you've been talking to her. You keep moving your eyes around." I >> pointed to my white cane and said, "no muscle control over the eyes I'm >> afraid." The girl I was talking to laughed, as did the guy who had tried >> to "help" me. So it was all friendly. However, I found it interesting >> because I'd been asked why I didn't make eye contact before, but never >> had someone assume it was for any sinister reason. Not and tell me they >> were assuming that, anyway. >> - -- >> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >> who desperately deserves it. >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtZ29AAoJEMh8jNraUiwq1ncH/0u8dAtr5DBaPjrgOwCF7rRC >> euRGKAy6IrE5UUlYJNnpbNOCtr4SwlUPkYSskQOEAukyUeddQ+PfgnFOu7C291Ts >> a4SYpUEA3fGQdXyYt9UE4BOTGewSBY7aXUaeUpxj5Mlu6HdJ0QHoJfqtViMETWok >> aC3Hqq47RP5GoIY52taDIbaqv6fgI5uzY+N1dwjNHCKx3ZUOQAVxBJwvOyBdfUHG >> fwN7GAs/6w2bnskWdoTID4hloVcziom5Wjvg3fohzvBBZC85lKiAZCgMzzF2lFSX >> y6ob+6lKY6DbyezjYNyLuMqJ/3ohAGQB0HrM793JwE4QJGnNDjq4ZLuqM6gmB7Y= >> =ByON >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 23:08:44 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:08:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals In-Reply-To: <558A57A834984145B6B1C65A4FC07F07@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090918230243.17556.6692@web2.serotek.com> <558A57A834984145B6B1C65A4FC07F07@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <423e6e460909201608w59ee088bn4c402b95337a0bc9@mail.gmail.com> Darien, I think that you make a very good point. I’m sure that everyone on this list has at one point said or thought that if blind people don’t have the training then they should go out and get it. There are still blind people all over the country that have still not heard about the Federation. Their voc rehab services are substandard or nonexistent and if they have ever had an O and M lesson it was probably to teach them how to find the buttons on the telephone poles and get from point A to point B. I think that this article should serve as a reminder to us that our jobs as federationists are not even close to being done. We still have more people that need to be taught Braille and to travel independently and we still need to show the world that it is perfectly acceptable to be blind. Just My Thoughts, Domonique On 9/19/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > you would think so. There are federal grants for just about anything that > has to do with city or public land. even sidewalks or blended curbs or > ramps. Probably talking to a state representative that is local would be who > yu need to talk to. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Mandarino" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 12:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals > > >>I thought it was interesting in an earlier post; it looked like there may >>be >> a federal grant or piece of legislation pushing this concept? I am curious >> for although I find the signals to be very annoying, they are also >> inconsistent. >> >> Perhaps that is the largest annoyance to me, for I have to ignore the >> audible signals as they are relatively different per city. Savannah has a >> chirping signal in some areas, and then in others they have a counting man >> who announces when to walk. When I have been in Raleigh they have a >> beeping >> signal that turns into a space shuttle or something when it is time to >> cross. >> >> I can not help but laugh at what sighted people think up, and as I have >> already said, I end up ignoring it so I don't get ran over! >> >> However, my concern with the mobility seems to fall into the same category >> as the Braille literacy. It does not seem difficult to me to cross the >> road, >> and it looks like people from the Federation training centers would say >> the >> same. Regardless of the road issue, I am more concerned about the lack of >> principles in travel, and Jennifer Kennedy and I have had this >> conversation. >> With the right principles you ought to be able to take crappy sighted >> information and translate it into a working route for your own needs. As I >> explore new areas of my city or campus, I enjoy having the ability to be >> independent with the minor help of solicitation. Now I am sure part of >> this >> is a confidence matter, but there are plenty of technique issues to be >> addressed as well. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Jedi >> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:03 PM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> >> NABSters: >> >> I have to agree that excellent cane travel teachers are few and far >> between. Or, let me rephrase that. There are loads of teachers who are >> excellent at what they teach regardless of philosophy, but very few who >> adopt a philosophy based on the idea that its respectable to be blind. >> Based on that, I also agree that there are loads of ill equipped blind >> persons roaming the streets who could definitely benefit from audible >> signals rather than just sitting at home. >> >> On the other hand, having signals everywhere isn't that fantastic >> either. They're loud for one thing, not to mention annoying to both the >> blind and sighted alike. They also give creedence to the notion that >> the blind are helpless without them. >> >> I personally propose a hybrid solution (no pun intended as I have no >> desire to see anyone killed by one regardless of skill level). I >> propose vibrotactile solutions that one can either use or ignore. Or, >> those who want traffic signals can carry an application on their cell >> phones that receives them much like our GPS solutions work. That way, >> those who want them can use them, there is little maintanence required, >> deaf/blind people can benefit, and the casual signal user can determine >> when to use them. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> >> Original message: >>> Hello all, >>> now please consider, that I tend to be a little analytical, and >>> sometimes take a devil's advocate stance in some things, as I will >>> here. Please keep that in mind as you read. >>> i tend to hesitate in saying "oh, you don't need those signals, get >>> good training and that will fix the issue" for two reasons. >>> 1. how many blind people actually get good training? I would guess >>> that those who do are in the minority. >>> 2. I tend to believe that that angle is that of a person who's >>> forgotten what it was like to not have the confidence and make due >>> with what they have. It's not easy to face down a busy intersection >>> sometimes, and maybe in some situations, not all, but some... an >>> Audable signal might be helpful. I don't use them personally, but I >>> am not going to call for their removal until we can inshure that every >>> single blind person is armed with the skills needed to travel >>> effectivly. i think the ideal is to be trained at an NFB center or >>> by a good blind cane travel instructor. But you need to be taught >>> way before the age of transition. youth should know at the same >>> time kids who are sighted know how to cross a street. >>> I'll end my take on this topic with this question... If a blind >>> person was struck and killed bya car, would our knee-jerk reaction >>> be"that person should have had better skills and that would have >>> saved them"? >> >>> On 9/17/09, Sarah alawami wrote: >>>> Yeah it will but the states don't want to provide it. I know mine >>>> won't. >>>> you hve to beg beg beg the services here and they just teach the point a >> to >>>> point b. I hate it. >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>>> Of Sarah Jevnikar >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:24 AM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> >>>> This is ridiculous. Adequate O and M training would eliminate this >> problem >>>> completely. >>>> Sarah >> >> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>>> Of Sarah alawami >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:40 PM >>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: silent signals >> >>>> I think this author is making a big deal out of nothing. Can't we just >>>> listen to trafic paterns? >> >>>> Silent signals, hazardous crossings >> >>>> Advocates urge city to add, fix devices that aid the blind >> >> >> >>>> By Peter Schworm, Globe Staff | August 17, 2009 >> >> >> >>>> Yakir Arbib is blind. He is also a promising young pianist who daily >>>> negotiates the Green Line and busy urban streets on his way to study at >> the >>>> Berklee College of Music. None of it daunts him, except the congested >>>> crossroads at Massachusetts Avenue and Boylston Street. >> >> >> >>>> The chirping of an audible crossing signal is supposed to alert him and >>>> other visually impaired pedestrians when it is safe to cross the >>>> traffic-choked street, but for several weeks the signal hasn't worked. >> >> >> >>>> "I wait for some nice person, or I take a chance,'' the Israeli native >> said. >> >>>> "I don't know how I'm going to get around having to cross that street. I >> >>>> think I'll have to find a different way.'' >> >> >> >>>> Just blocks away, at Fairfield Street and Commonwealth Avenue, another >>>> audible signal for the blind was not functioning properly. Advocates for >> the >>>> blind say that at any given time, a significant number of Boston's 40 >>>> audible intersections work poorly or not at all, and they accuse the >>>> city >> of >>>> making maintenance a low priority. >> >> >> >>>> Further, they say, Boston has lagged other major cities in making its >>>> streets more navigable for the visually impaired, noting that it has >> failed >>>> to heed federal recommendations that urge cities to install audible >>>> crosswalk signals at new or upgraded intersections. Most glaring, they >> say, >>>> is that more than 100 intersections created as part of the Big Dig lack >> the >>>> devices. >> >> >> >>>> "In terms of accessibility, Boston is behind the eight ball,'' said Bob >>>> Hachey, president of Bay State Council of the Blind. "It has not done >> itself >>>> proud. It's been like getting blood from a stone.'' >> >> >> >>>> City officials say they install new signals almost exclusively based on >>>> requests from individuals and the state Commission for the Blind, which >> also >>>> fields complaints and requests. They said they are doing their best to >> keep >>>> signals working properly but would be able to address problems quicker >>>> if >>>> pedestrians notify officials. >> >> >> >>>> "I can see why it would be incredibly frustrating to pedestrians who >>>> rely >> on >>>> them,'' said Jim Gillooly, deputy commissioner of the Boston >> Transportation >>>> Department, which is responsible for installation and maintenance. "We >>>> really rely on people who use these signals to let us know if they >>>> aren't >>>> working. If we know about them, we'll get them fixed.'' >> >> >> >>>> Gillooly said his office has not received many complaints about faulty >>>> signals, adding that people should report problems for quicker results. >> >> >> >>>> But advocates say the audible signals are often on the blink for weeks, >>>> in >>>> Boston as well as neighboring communities, making some of the area's >>>> busiest >>>> intersections feel like a roll of the dice. >> >> >> >>>> "We all have crossings that we call 'pray and go,' '' said Pauline >>>> Downing, >>>> a Somerville resident who is blind. She is the former president of Guide >>>> Dog >>>> Users of Massachusetts. >> >> >> >>>> Hachey, of the Bay State Council of the Blind, with a German shepherd as >>>> his >>>> guide, visited the Massachusetts Avenue/Boylston Street intersection one >>>> day >>>> last week to document problems. When working properly, the chirping >>>> signal >>>> is supposed to sound for pedestrians walking in either direction in all >>>> four >>>> crosswalks - a total of eight audible signals - but as Hachey tested >>>> them, >>>> five failed to activate. A separate audible cue at the intersection, >>>> designed to help blind people locate the walk buttons, was drowned out >>>> by >>>> heavy morning traffic. >> >> >> >>>> "That's useless,'' he said. "It's far too low given the ambient noise.'' >> >> >> >>>> He spoke into a recorder to remind himself to notify the state >>>> Commission >>>> for the Blind about the problem. >> >> >> >>>> "Absolutely no audible signal,'' he said. >> >> >> >>>> To many who are visually impaired, signals that don't work are an added >>>> irritation to their complaint that the city has been slow to install >>>> more >>>> audible signals. Some have asserted the city is bound by the Americans >>>> with >>>> Disabilities Act to put in signals at new and upgraded intersections, >>>> such >>>> as those created by the Big Dig. But Boston transportation officials say >> >>>> they are not legally obligated by the act and note that the systems can >>>> cost >>>> more than $10,000. >> >> >> >>>> Jessie Lorenz, director of public policy for San Francisco's LightHouse >>>> for >>>> the Blind and Visually Impaired, which two years ago successfully >>>> lobbied >>>> the city to install accessible signals at some 80 intersections, said >>>> that >>>> while the question has not come before a court, federal transportation >>>> officials are recommending that new road projects include accessible >>>> signals, and local leaders are beginning to take note. >> >> >> >>>> Not all advocates for the blind press for more signals, and some even >>>> suggest it's unreasonable to expect audible signals at every >>>> intersection, >>>> saying vision-impaired pedestrians should not become reliant on them. >> >> >> >>>> "We have not tended to endorse audible traffic signals,'' said Chris >>>> Danielsen, spokesman for the National Federation of the Blind. "We >>>> believe a >>>> blind person should learn cane-travel techniques, and part of that is >>>> learning to hear the traffic patterns.'' >> >> >> >>>> The relative scarcity of the devices, Danielsen said, and the risk of >>>> malfunction demonstrate their limits. >> >> >> >>>> But complicating that view is the growing prevalence of quiet cars, >>>> especially hybrids, which can have virtually no engine noise at slow >>>> speeds. >>>> Some say they pose safety risks for those relying on senses other than >>>> sight. The federation is lobbying for federal legislation mandating cars >> >>>> meet certain decibel requirements. >> >> >> >>>> "Vehicles should emit a minimum level of sound so that all pedestrians >>>> are >>>> safe,'' Danielsen said. "Blind people need to hear the sound to >>>> determine >>>> speed and direction of the traffic.'' >> >> >> >>>> But other visually impaired people say audible signals are the key, and >>>> that >>>> cities like Boston need to make a priority of installing new ones and >>>> keeping them working. >> >> >> >>>> "You get excited initially when there's a new one. They give you peace >>>> of >>>> mind,'' said Tim Cumings, a Brighton resident who is blind. "But then >>>> they >>>> don't work from one day to the next.'' >> >> >> >>>> C Copyright >> >>>> 2009 The New York Times Company >> >> >> >>>> ------------------------------------ >> >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >>>> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/ >> >>>> <*> Your email settings: >>>> Individual Email | Traditional >> >>>> <*> To change settings online go to: >>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VIP_Forum/join >>>> (Yahoo! ID required) >> >>>> <*> To change settings via email: >>>> mailto:VIP_Forum-digest at yahoogroups.com >>>> mailto:VIP_Forum-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com >> >>>> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>>> VIP_Forum-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com >> >>>> <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto >>>> ronto.ca >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun Sep 20 23:38:43 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:38:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643> <0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net> <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> <4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <423e6e460909201638n4f2197a4nb6f0c8f52761466b@mail.gmail.com> Joseph, For some reason blind people just cannot pull off blank face. I have no idea why this is but every blind person I know (including myself) is like an open book when it comes to displaying emotions. I would really love to know if there is a scientific or psychological reason behind this. Domonique On 9/20/09, Joseph C. Lininger wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Teal, > LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other > people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even > more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never > break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the > psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've > known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated > visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually > got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a > router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a > few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the > entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and > one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, > "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I > wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to > look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more > problems. > > After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was > with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I > was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even > provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face > was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my question. > > I always thought that at least to a point people learned these > expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning > what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work > that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For > example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the > more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain > expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in > how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, > how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done > regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught > those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on > what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of > vision and which must be picked up visually? > - -- > Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > who desperately deserves it. > Joseph C. Lininger, > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > =gV8x > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From mewhalen at wisc.edu Sun Sep 20 23:41:01 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:41:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643> <0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net> <5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> <4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <68E7A462A7A548D3A78CA34CDB26CE13@Yoka> I'm really not sure, but this reminds me of summer of 2008. at a student event, we actually had someone talk to us about facial expressions and what communicates which emotions. It was very interesting. I think I've picked up on some of it even though I cannot see because I've read so much. A lot of that is provided in reading, so I think it's possible we pick up on it in texts we read and begin to learn/communicate facial expressions that way. Not sure this made sense. Meghan From dandrews at visi.com Sun Sep 20 23:46:34 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:46:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Java Programs In-Reply-To: <48708.10301.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <48708.10301.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Obviously we do everything from the keyboard, so all controls etc. need keyboard commands. I would advise downloading demo copies of JAWS and Window-Eyes, or using screen access to go www.satogo.com or NVDA to see how things work for most. Dave At 11:28 AM 9/17/2009, you wrote: >Hello NAB Students, > >I am in the process of developing an accessible Java graphical user >interface (GUI) for blind students using Java Swing and wanted to >get some feedback. The program can be launched from your screen >reader. I want to understand how to assist blind students most >effectively in navigating graphical user interface. I need to get >some insight from others who are blind in hoping to develop programs >that will be useful. The programs will have very descriptive audio >to aid in the navigation for blind users. By using an accessible >Java framework the graphical components user interface is made >available to the screen reader. If you are already using some other >means to aid you with graphical components please share your process with me. > >All information will be keep confidential, and no names will be >used. Please email your comments to: > >achisleywade at acm.org > >Thanks in advance for your cooperation. > >Arlene >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4435 (20090917) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 01:00:07 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:00:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net><5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643> <4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> Message-ID: <51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability to look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people say i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative change in our biological being. I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic is a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off or sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions through personality development of what actions give you these feelings, then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your question...i am a social work/psychology major -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph C. Lininger" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > Teal, > LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other > people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even > more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never > break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the > psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've > known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated > visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually > got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a > router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a > few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the > entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and > one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, > "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I > wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to > look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more > problems. > > After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was > with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I > was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even > provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face > was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my > question. > > I always thought that at least to a point people learned these > expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning > what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work > that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For > example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the > more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain > expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in > how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, > how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done > regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught > those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on > what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of > vision and which must be picked up visually? > - -- > Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > who desperately deserves it. > Joseph C. Lininger, > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > =gV8x > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 01:21:51 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:21:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net><5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643><4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> <51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <0D2F062ABD0240D59A4E747AFFCFDF10@SonyPC> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my facial expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else on the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't make/keep eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I am too unreadable at times. As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword situations. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt > the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability to > look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people say > i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person looks > like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes > naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are > actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental > stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment and > social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative change in > our biological being. > > I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic is a > personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off or sad > or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other peoples > responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions through > personality development of what actions give you these feelings, then > these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. > > Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > question...i am a social work/psychology major > > -Teal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph C. Lininger" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> Teal, >> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other >> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even >> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never >> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >> >> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've >> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a >> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the >> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, >> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more >> problems. >> >> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I >> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face >> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >> question. >> >> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning >> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For >> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the >> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done >> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught >> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of >> vision and which must be picked up visually? >> - -- >> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >> who desperately deserves it. >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >> =gV8x >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 02:30:28 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:30:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net><5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643><4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net> <51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <001101ca3a63$7d81c3b0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I agree with you! I was wondering the same thing. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt > the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability to > look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people say > i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person looks > like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes > naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are > actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental > stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment and > social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative change in > our biological being. > > I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic is a > personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off or sad > or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other peoples > responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions through > personality development of what actions give you these feelings, then > these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. > > Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > question...i am a social work/psychology major > > -Teal > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joseph C. Lininger" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 >> >> Teal, >> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other >> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even >> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never >> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >> >> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've >> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a >> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the >> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, >> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more >> problems. >> >> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I >> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face >> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >> question. >> >> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning >> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For >> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the >> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done >> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught >> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of >> vision and which must be picked up visually? >> - -- >> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >> who desperately deserves it. >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >> =gV8x >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 02:05:30 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:05:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help In-Reply-To: <54d8179e0909181857s62144fb6gdf0a44fbbfea410a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1870347473.2927521253314887512.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <54d8179e0909181857s62144fb6gdf0a44fbbfea410a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <409c235c0909201905m709e373exc8b259c0e4ae01f0@mail.gmail.com> Hi Amy, the only way I've navigated MSN is using f6 to toggle between the message window and the text box. i am not sure if that helps, but if it doesn't feel free to say so. I'll be happy to help anyway that I can, and I am positive so will anybody else on this list. we're a bunch of nice folks On 9/18/09, Justin Young wrote: > Hi Amy! > My name is Justin Young and I'm not familiar with the messenger thing, > but I do use skype. What are you trying to do with skype? I ask cuz > once I know this I can help ya further. If you are trying to do the > chat thing its not really that accessible in terms of the typing it > in. I've been told you can get the JAWS scripts for it though. If > you like I can do some research and get back to you on how to add this > part. If you are trying to do like a call or something for the most > part as far as I know its farely accessible. > I really hope this helps and its great to meet you! > Justin > > On 9/18/09, Amy Sabo wrote: >> hello all, >> >> i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. i'm >> using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when i >> type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't read >> it >> back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how >> can >> i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also >> having >> the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them >> too. >> >> so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and i >> will talk to you all soon! >> >> >> hugs, >> from amy >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 02:06:39 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:06:39 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help In-Reply-To: <409c235c0909201905m709e373exc8b259c0e4ae01f0@mail.gmail.com> References: <1870347473.2927521253314887512.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <54d8179e0909181857s62144fb6gdf0a44fbbfea410a@mail.gmail.com> <409c235c0909201905m709e373exc8b259c0e4ae01f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <409c235c0909201906u2bc4b096ic3d28baf93c29aa2@mail.gmail.com> ... Our canes and dogs don't bite.. hahaha. best, Darian On 9/20/09, Darian Smith wrote: > Hi Amy, > > the only way I've navigated MSN is using f6 to toggle between > the message window and the text box. i am not sure if that helps, > but if it doesn't feel free to say so. I'll be happy to help anyway > that I can, and I am positive so will anybody else on this list. > we're a bunch of nice folks > > On 9/18/09, Justin Young wrote: >> Hi Amy! >> My name is Justin Young and I'm not familiar with the messenger thing, >> but I do use skype. What are you trying to do with skype? I ask cuz >> once I know this I can help ya further. If you are trying to do the >> chat thing its not really that accessible in terms of the typing it >> in. I've been told you can get the JAWS scripts for it though. If >> you like I can do some research and get back to you on how to add this >> part. If you are trying to do like a call or something for the most >> part as far as I know its farely accessible. >> I really hope this helps and its great to meet you! >> Justin >> >> On 9/18/09, Amy Sabo wrote: >>> hello all, >>> >>> i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. >>> i'm >>> using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when >>> i >>> type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't >>> read >>> it >>> back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how >>> can >>> i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also >>> having >>> the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them >>> too. >>> >>> so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and >>> i >>> will talk to you all soon! >>> >>> >>> hugs, >>> from amy >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > From chickerland at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 03:11:59 2009 From: chickerland at gmail.com (Zach) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:11:59 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note References: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: Let me direct you to the braillenote list: list.humanware.com/listinfo/braillenote ask all the question you'd like on there! Zach P.S. If u have not done so already, please join the electronicsfortheblind mailing list. To join, click below: googlegroups.com/group/electronicsfortheblind Thank you for your consideration in this matter ----- Original Message ----- From: "V Nork" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note > Hi Rachel and all,, Do you feel the braille note is an alternative to a > netbook? I have never had access to a braille note, sure I know I can > read up on it, but it is wonderful to have thoughts from all of you great > folks on the front lines of being students, so to speak. Thanks for > sharing any expertise, Ginnie > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chickerland%40gmail.com From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 03:59:51 2009 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:59:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note In-Reply-To: References: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: <54f02f10909202059rbfbce61u6d72c1834d686f77@mail.gmail.com> That list is in error. I got a page not found screen. On 9/20/09, Zach wrote: > Let me direct you to the braillenote list: > list.humanware.com/listinfo/braillenote > ask all the question you'd like on there! > > Zach > P.S. If u have not done so already, please join the electronicsfortheblind > mailing list. To join, click below: > googlegroups.com/group/electronicsfortheblind > Thank you for your consideration in this matter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "V Nork" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:46 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note > > >> Hi Rachel and all,, Do you feel the braille note is an alternative to a >> netbook? I have never had access to a braille note, sure I know I can >> read up on it, but it is wonderful to have thoughts from all of you great >> folks on the front lines of being students, so to speak. Thanks for >> sharing any expertise, Ginnie >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chickerland%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com > -- Christina, bilateral facial cleft and total blindness. Beyond the face is a heart. From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 04:07:32 2009 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:07:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note In-Reply-To: <54f02f10909202059rbfbce61u6d72c1834d686f77@mail.gmail.com> References: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> <54f02f10909202059rbfbce61u6d72c1834d686f77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB6FC04.1030006@gmail.com> Hello, No, the braillenote is not an alternative to the netbook. Please keep in mind that this is my opinion, but it is not an alternative. I say this because they are made for different purposes. Braillenotes are designed for the blind, netbooks are designed for anyone. Netbooks are more portable, and their functionality surpasses that of a braillenote by a thousandfold. A braillenote however has a braille display. A netbook is much cheaper than a braillenote, however braillenotes have a braille keyboard. If you wish to have a blindness alternative to a netbook, please look at the levelstar icon and docking station, as they are a third of the price of a braillenote and are comparable to a netbook's features. If you wish to have a braille display though, my first choice would be a braille sense as the memory is much greater than that in a braille note, not to mention that the braille sense has built-in wireless and bluetooth and a user-replaceable battery. Thanks Nimer J Christina Mitchell wrote: > That list is in error. I got a page not found screen. > > On 9/20/09, Zach wrote: > >> Let me direct you to the braillenote list: >> list.humanware.com/listinfo/braillenote >> ask all the question you'd like on there! >> >> Zach >> P.S. If u have not done so already, please join the electronicsfortheblind >> mailing list. To join, click below: >> googlegroups.com/group/electronicsfortheblind >> Thank you for your consideration in this matter >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "V Nork" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:46 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note >> >> >> >>> Hi Rachel and all,, Do you feel the braille note is an alternative to a >>> netbook? I have never had access to a braille note, sure I know I can >>> read up on it, but it is wonderful to have thoughts from all of you great >>> folks on the front lines of being students, so to speak. Thanks for >>> sharing any expertise, Ginnie >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chickerland%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com >> >> > > > From ginisd at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 21 04:32:06 2009 From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:32:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note References: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> <54f02f10909202059rbfbce61u6d72c1834d686f77@mail.gmail.com> <4AB6FC04.1030006@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, this isgreat, i will follow up on all this, Ginnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nimer" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note > Hello, > > No, the braillenote is not an alternative to the netbook. Please keep in > mind that this is my opinion, but it is not an alternative. I say this > because they are made for different purposes. Braillenotes are designed > for the blind, netbooks are designed for anyone. Netbooks are more > portable, and their functionality surpasses that of a braillenote by a > thousandfold. A braillenote however has a braille display. A netbook is > much cheaper than a braillenote, however braillenotes have a braille > keyboard. If you wish to have a blindness alternative to a netbook, please > look at the levelstar icon and docking station, as they are a third of the > price of a braillenote and are comparable to a netbook's features. If you > wish to have a braille display though, my first choice would be a braille > sense as the memory is much greater than that in a braille note, not to > mention that the braille sense has built-in wireless and bluetooth and a > user-replaceable battery. > > Thanks > Nimer J > > Christina Mitchell wrote: >> That list is in error. I got a page not found screen. >> >> On 9/20/09, Zach wrote: >> >>> Let me direct you to the braillenote list: >>> list.humanware.com/listinfo/braillenote >>> ask all the question you'd like on there! >>> >>> Zach >>> P.S. If u have not done so already, please join the >>> electronicsfortheblind >>> mailing list. To join, click below: >>> googlegroups.com/group/electronicsfortheblind >>> Thank you for your consideration in this matter >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "V Nork" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:46 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Rachel and all,, Do you feel the braille note is an alternative to a >>>> netbook? I have never had access to a braille note, sure I know I can >>>> read up on it, but it is wonderful to have thoughts from all of you >>>> great >>>> folks on the front lines of being students, so to speak. Thanks for >>>> sharing any expertise, Ginnie >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chickerland%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.net From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 14:19:48 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:19:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help References: <1870347473.2927521253314887512.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><54d8179e0909181857s62144fb6gdf0a44fbbfea410a@mail.gmail.com> <409c235c0909201905m709e373exc8b259c0e4ae01f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48B21F29CB8D49C0AEA956AB1EF11600@teal6e6857f643> yeah i use msn live messenger and of course to toggle in that window alt tab and i know hotmail is unusually hard to navigate but i am not really sure what you are asking sorry and good luck -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] jaws help > Hi Amy, > > the only way I've navigated MSN is using f6 to toggle between > the message window and the text box. i am not sure if that helps, > but if it doesn't feel free to say so. I'll be happy to help anyway > that I can, and I am positive so will anybody else on this list. > we're a bunch of nice folks > > On 9/18/09, Justin Young wrote: >> Hi Amy! >> My name is Justin Young and I'm not familiar with the messenger thing, >> but I do use skype. What are you trying to do with skype? I ask cuz >> once I know this I can help ya further. If you are trying to do the >> chat thing its not really that accessible in terms of the typing it >> in. I've been told you can get the JAWS scripts for it though. If >> you like I can do some research and get back to you on how to add this >> part. If you are trying to do like a call or something for the most >> part as far as I know its farely accessible. >> I really hope this helps and its great to meet you! >> Justin >> >> On 9/18/09, Amy Sabo wrote: >>> hello all, >>> >>> i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. >>> i'm >>> using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when >>> i >>> type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't >>> read >>> it >>> back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how >>> can >>> i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also >>> having >>> the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them >>> too. >>> >>> so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and >>> i >>> will talk to you all soon! >>> >>> >>> hugs, >>> from amy >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 14:27:35 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:27:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net><5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643><4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net><51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643> <0D2F062ABD0240D59A4E747AFFCFDF10@SonyPC> Message-ID: <76D103D57C264B7FAFBF6D7469FB702F@teal6e6857f643> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to believe....maybe the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is alittle stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and i say i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time and in department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous florescent lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in a lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since birth? I have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in people blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of life. And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my facial > expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else on > the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't make/keep > eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I am > too unreadable at times. > > As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword situations. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt >> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability to >> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people say >> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes >> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental >> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment >> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative change >> in our biological being. >> >> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic is >> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off or >> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >> through personality development of what actions give you these feelings, >> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >> >> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >> question...i am a social work/psychology major >> >> -Teal >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA256 >>> >>> Teal, >>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other >>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even >>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never >>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>> >>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've >>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a >>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the >>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, >>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more >>> problems. >>> >>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I >>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face >>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>> question. >>> >>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning >>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For >>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the >>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done >>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught >>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of >>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>> - -- >>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>> who desperately deserves it. >>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>> >>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>> =gV8x >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 15:56:50 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:56:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <76D103D57C264B7FAFBF6D7469FB702F@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net><5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643><4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net><51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643><0D2F062ABD0240D59A4E747AFFCFDF10@SonyPC> <76D103D57C264B7FAFBF6D7469FB702F@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <15A8403885D74B01A660937982EFAF25@SonyPC> I have dark glasses because of severe light sensitivity. I didn't intend to imply I was emotionless, just that people say I am. I have been blind since birth. I don't intend to look unfriendly, just friends and family and the like say I do. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to believe....maybe > the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? > > As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > alittle stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why > and i say i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is > probably a psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the > time and in department stores it seems to be lighter because of the > numerous florescent lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure > whether i am in a lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually > impaired since birth? I have found a slight difference in personality > characteristics in people blind since birth and those that have become > blind in the middle of life. And honestly i have heard of people who wear > the dark shades but never personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you > why you choose to do so? > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >> facial expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware >> else on the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >> make/keep eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they >> think I am too unreadable at times. >> >> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >> situations. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt >>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability to >>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people >>> say i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes >>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental >>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment >>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>> change in our biological being. >>> >>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic is >>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off or >>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>> through personality development of what actions give you these feelings, >>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>> >>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>> >>> -Teal >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>> >>>> Teal, >>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>> other >>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>> even >>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>> never >>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>> >>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've >>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had >>>> a >>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took >>>> the >>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, >>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more >>>> problems. >>>> >>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said >>>> I >>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face >>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>> question. >>>> >>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning >>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. >>>> For >>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought >>>> the >>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>> done >>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>> taught >>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack >>>> of >>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>> - -- >>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>> >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>> >>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>> =gV8x >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 21 17:13:00 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:13:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Webinar with AbiSee Reading solutions Message-ID: Dear Adaptive Technology Professionals, teachers, and anybody interested in exciting new advances in technology for people who are blind or have low vision: The link below is for a free educational Webinar and FREE Netbook offer from Handy Tech North America and ABISee, the leader in adaptive reading solutions. At the seminar you will experience Zoom-Twix, the dream reading solution for vision impaired students, available for a limited time with a Free Netbook. We will also explore Eye-Pal SOLO LV, the breakthrough, hand-motion activated stand-alone auto-reader. If you would prefer a demonstration in person, then it would be my pleasure to meet with you, your students and co-workers so that you can see this exciting technology in action. Please click below to register for the online presentation and feel free to forward this e-mail to whoever you feel might be interested. Back to School Bundle: Get a Free "Acer Aspire One Netbook" with purchase of Eye-Pal, Zoom-Ex or Zoom-Twix. Offer good thru October 30th. If you're a teacher, evaluator or councilor, you know that finding the right reading tools for people who are Blind and Visually Impaired can be a challenge. We want to help . . . so we've made our advanced, affordable and effective reading solutions as easy to get as they are to use. Now through October 30th, ABISee, the leader in powerful yet easy-to-use assistive reading solutions will give you a Free "Acer Aspire One Netbook" (a $299 value) with each purchase of an Eye-Pal, Zoom-Ex or Zoom-Twix. Our Breakthrough Solutions Include: Eye-Pal created for people who are Blind, instantly reads aloud any printed materials and scans books too * Zoom-Ex designed for Low Vision reads, scans, and displays * Zoom-Twix, created especially for Students does everything above and adds a CCTV camera for distance viewing and image capture Click below to register your seat to experience these products live: ABISee Webinar for the V.I. Community Thursday Sept 24 at 3PM EST/ 12PM PST ABISee Webinar for the V.I. Community Thursday Sept 24 at 6PM EST/ 3PM PST I hope to see you at one of the above online events. Sincerely, Earle Harrison President, Handy Tech North America Voice: 651-636-5184 E-mail: info at handytech.us Fax: 866-347-8249 Web: http://www.handytech.us Best Regards: Dave Wright Work Phone: 347-422-7085 Email: dwrigh6 at gmail.com WebPage: http://www.knfbreader.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon Sep 21 20:50:32 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:50:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Message-ID: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com> Teal, I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, unless they let it. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to believe....maybe > the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? > As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is alittle > stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and i say > i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a > psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time and in > department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous florescent > lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in a > lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since birth? I > have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in people > blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of life. > And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never > personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my facial >> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else on >> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't make/keep >> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I am >> too unreadable at times. >> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword situations. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt >>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability to >>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people say >>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes >>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental >>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment >>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative change >>> in our biological being. >>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic is >>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off or >>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>> through personality development of what actions give you these feelings, >>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>> Teal, >>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at other >>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's even >>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and never >>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. I've >>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had a >>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took the >>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said was, >>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet more >>>> problems. >>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said I >>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my face >>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>> question. >>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and learning >>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. For >>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought the >>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been done >>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically taught >>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack of >>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>> - -- >>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>> =gV8x >>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net B -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From amylsabo at comcast.net Mon Sep 21 22:02:41 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:02:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help In-Reply-To: <48B21F29CB8D49C0AEA956AB1EF11600@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <771429305.3748231253570561651.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello there, thanks for that tip but, i already know how to use that one. thanks for your help and, i will talk to you soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Teal Bloodworth To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:19:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] jaws help yeah i use msn live messenger and of course to toggle in that window alt tab and i know hotmail is unusually hard to navigate but i am not really sure what you are asking sorry and good luck -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] jaws help > Hi Amy, > > the only way I've navigated MSN is using f6 to toggle between > the message window and the text box. i am not sure if that helps, > but if it doesn't feel free to say so. I'll be happy to help anyway > that I can, and I am positive so will anybody else on this list. > we're a bunch of nice folks > > On 9/18/09, Justin Young wrote: >> Hi Amy! >> My name is Justin Young and I'm not familiar with the messenger thing, >> but I do use skype. What are you trying to do with skype? I ask cuz >> once I know this I can help ya further. If you are trying to do the >> chat thing its not really that accessible in terms of the typing it >> in. I've been told you can get the JAWS scripts for it though. If >> you like I can do some research and get back to you on how to add this >> part. If you are trying to do like a call or something for the most >> part as far as I know its farely accessible. >> I really hope this helps and its great to meet you! >> Justin >> >> On 9/18/09, Amy Sabo wrote: >>> hello all, >>> >>> i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. >>> i'm >>> using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when >>> i >>> type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't >>> read >>> it >>> back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how >>> can >>> i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also >>> having >>> the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them >>> too. >>> >>> so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and >>> i >>> will talk to you all soon! >>> >>> >>> hugs, >>> from amy >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Mon Sep 21 22:12:02 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] jaws help In-Reply-To: <409c235c0909201905m709e373exc8b259c0e4ae01f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <729247646.3753151253571122588.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello darren, thanks for the tip on using msn messenger with jfw. this was somewhat i was looking for in help. thanks again and i will talk to you soon! hugs, from amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Darian Smith To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:05:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [nabs-l] jaws help Hi Amy, the only way I've navigated MSN is using f6 to toggle between the message window and the text box. i am not sure if that helps, but if it doesn't feel free to say so. I'll be happy to help anyway that I can, and I am positive so will anybody else on this list. we're a bunch of nice folks On 9/18/09, Justin Young wrote: > Hi Amy! > My name is Justin Young and I'm not familiar with the messenger thing, > but I do use skype. What are you trying to do with skype? I ask cuz > once I know this I can help ya further. If you are trying to do the > chat thing its not really that accessible in terms of the typing it > in. I've been told you can get the JAWS scripts for it though. If > you like I can do some research and get back to you on how to add this > part. If you are trying to do like a call or something for the most > part as far as I know its farely accessible. > I really hope this helps and its great to meet you! > Justin > > On 9/18/09, Amy Sabo wrote: >> hello all, >> >> i'am having some major problems with jaws and msn messenger and skype. i'm >> using the latest version of msn messenger and jfw 10 on my desktop. when i >> type something into the msn messenger conversation window it doesn't read >> it >> back to me or read what the receiver of the conversation is saying. how >> can >> i fix this problem? also, for skype i'm using skype 3.8 and i'm also >> having >> the same problem but, it also won't all the menus and options for them >> too. >> >> so, anyone who could help me on this would be awesome. thanks again and i >> will talk to you all soon! >> >> >> hugs, >> from amy >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From amylsabo at comcast.net Mon Sep 21 22:31:49 2009 From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:31:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Perform-talk] The scholarship is now open Message-ID: <2085722753.3762251253572309125.JavaMail.root@sz0144a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> hello all, here is something good for us students who are looking for scholarships to apply for. please pass this onto as many students that you know of. also, can this also be put into the next nabs bulletin for october? thanks again and good luck to everyone in applying for it! hugs, from amy ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Dennis To: Performing Arts Division list Sent: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Perform-talk] The scholarship is now open Pass this along to other lists. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT Dennis Holston, President Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind (917) 903-5650 dholston at nyc.rr.com www.padnfb.org Application Process Begins Scholarships for Blind Performing Arts Majors New York, NY (September 21, 2009): The non-profit Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind (PAD, NFB) is currently taking applications for its Mary Anne Parks Performing Arts Scholarship. The scholarship will be awarded at the NFB's annual convention July 3-8, 2010 in Dallas, Texas. The winner will receive $1,000 and an all-expense-paid trip to the convention. The scholarship is open to legally blind students (high school through graduate school). Applicants must either be currently majoring in or planning to major in some form of the performing arts in the fall of 2010. The deadline is March 31. Applications are available to download at: www.padnfb.org Applicants will be judged on their performing arts achievements and excellence, performing arts-related aspirations and goals, academic excellence and community service endeavors. "Finalists," says Scholarship Coordinator Lisa Ostrow, from the Boston area, "will be contacted for a teleconference interview with the Scholarship Committee." "The Mary Anne Parks Performing Arts Scholarship," says PAD's President Dennis Holston "was created in memory of our late secretary, Mary Anne Parks, of Atlanta, Georgia. Mary Anne was a master's candidate and a dynamic leader who held several offices in the NFB. She died at age 30 in August of 2007 on her way to do volunteer teaching for Hands on Atlanta when a car struck the van in which she was riding." To contact Scholarship Coordinator Lisa Ostrow, send an e-mail to: scholarships at padnfb.org ### About the National Federation of the Blind: With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. ******** Dennis Sumlin Holston. President: Performing Arts Division of the National Federation of the Blind. (347) 875-7469 http://www.padnfb.org President: Westchester chapter of New York State. Artist Recruitment Specialist: The Visionary Media Company _______________________________________________ Perform-talk mailing list Perform-talk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/perform-talk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Perform-talk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/perform-talk_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net From kim at senderogroup.com Tue Sep 22 02:56:09 2009 From: kim at senderogroup.com (Kim Casey) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:56:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sendero GPS v6.1 Released! Message-ID: Announcing Sendero GPS 6.1 for the BrailleNote family of Products September 21, 2009 Personalize your POI content Version 6.1 is Sendero's twelfth version since our laptop GPS in 2000. It has been 14 years since we began working on the first prototypes. There are 7 improvements since version 6.0 was released in July. Most notably, the POI Media content feature, the ability to add audio and text content to your POIs, is back it is even better than before! Attach the sound of Big Ben chiming at noon to that POI. Attach a recording your waiter reading the menu at your favorite restaurant. Save your bus schedule as a KeySoft text file and attach it to that bus stop POI. The possibilities are endless. A sound cue will occur when you come across a POI with media content. To see all 7 changes from v6.0 to v6.1, visit http://www.SenderoGroup.com/v61changes.htm To see all 25 changes from v5 to v6.0, visit http://www.SenderoGroup.com/v60changes.htm For those of you who already have v6.0 Sendero GPS on an mPower or PK, your free upgrade is eagerly awaiting you at MySendero.com. To get started using the POI Media Content feature visit Section 7.5 in the V6 online manuals, http://www.senderogroup.com/supportgps.htm For those of you who are still on the fence or would like to try 6.1 before you buy you can fill out the following form and download a Trial Version, http://www.senderogroup.com/testdrive.htm, for either your BrailleNote mPower or PK. You will have access to all countries we currently support for the 15 days, after which you can purchase a full version, opt for the Pay-As-You-Go payment plan, or uninstall the 15 day trial version and re-install your old version of Sendero GPS. For more information, call Sendero toll free, 1-888-757-6810 Contact Sendero Group: http://www.senderogroup.com Toll free phone (US and Canada): 1-888-757-6810 Direct phone: +1 530 757-6800 From info at michaelhingson.com Tue Sep 22 03:08:48 2009 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:08:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] On-line Demonstrations of KNFB Reader Mobile Software and Nokia N86 Message-ID: The National Federation of the Blind and The Michael Hingson Group will hold online demonstrations and discussions of the KnfbReader Mobile this Friday afternoon, September 25, 2009, and Saturday, September 26, 2009. The purpose of these meetings is to showcase the KnfbReader Mobile using the new Nokia N86 platform. "We are excited about the possibilities afforded by the Nokia N86 and its ability to support the KnfbReader Mobile in the future", states Michael Hingson president of The Michael Hingson Group. During these online sessions we will discuss the features of the KnfbReader Mobile as well as pricing and availability with the Nokia N86. The N86 has many new and interesting features not available on earlier platforms supported by the KnfbReader Mobile. These sessions will be of interest both to existing users as well as those who are interested in purchasing a Reader in the future. After opening presentations Michael Hingson will take questions on all aspects of the reader. Those who received this announcement are invited to encourage their friends and colleagues to join the session so that as many as possible can learn about this amazing device which is changing the lives of many blind people throughout the world. If you have questions or want to learn more about decay NFB reader mobile please contact: Michael Hingson Email: info at michaelhingson.com (415) 827-4084 Date: Friday September 25, 2009. Time: 2:00 P.M. Pacific, 3:00 P.M. Mountain, 4:00 P.M. Central, 5:00 P.M. Eastern, and elsewhere in the world 21:00 GMT Friday September 25. Date: Saturday September 26, 2009. Time: 10:00 A.M. Pacific, 11:00 A.M. Mountain, 12:00 P.M. Central, 1:00 P.M. Eastern, and elsewhere in the world 18:00 GMT Saturday September 26. Where: KnfbReader Mobile conference room: which you can locate by clicking on the following link: Enter the Conference Room Here Or, alternatively, http://74.208.96.53/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rsb18eeae3cfd2. After reaching the conference room entry page follow the instructions to enter the conference room itself. No password is required. We will record the event and put it on Michael Hingson's web site http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com so if you are unable to participate live at the above times then you may download the presentation or podcast from the website listed above. This online interactive program requires no password, is free of Charge, and open to anyone worldwide having an Internet connection, a Computer, speakers, and a sound card. Those with microphones can interact audibly with the presenters and others in the virtual audience. If you are a first-time user of the Talking Communities online conferencing software, there is a small, safe software program that you need to download and then run. A link to the software is available On the entry screen to the online conference room. The Michael Hingson Group "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: a40513.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 8779 bytes Desc: not available URL: From artds55 at comcast.net Tue Sep 22 03:19:52 2009 From: artds55 at comcast.net (by way of David Andrews ) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:19:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Job Announcement Vending Program Director Oregon Message-ID: Post Code: D717 Announcement Number: LEBL0903 Classification Number: Z7002 Open: 09/9/2009 Close: 09/30/2009 Location: Portland Availability: Full Time PRINCIPAL EXECUTIVE/MANAGER B (PRINCIPAL EXECUTIVE/MANAGER B (Business Enterprise Program Director)) $3,672 - $5,406 MONTHLY To be considered for this vacancy you must apply to announcement number LEBL0903. INTRODUCTION The mission of the Oregon Commission for the Blind is to promote the full integration of blind Oregonians into society through employment and independent living. The Business Enterprise Program (BEP) offers legally blind Oregonians opportunities to manage food service and vending facilities in government buildings throughout Oregon. BEP’s purpose is to create employment for blind persons who are referred to the program by the rehabilitation staff of the agency. There are currently 25 facilities ranging from small dry-stands to large cafeterias. The agency is seeking a Director of the BEP. The chosen candidate will be responsible for the overall management, fiscal oversight and administration of the program. This position is management service and is not represented by a union. This recruitment announcement will be used to establish a list of qualified candidates to fill the current vacancy. SCOPE OF THE POSITION The Business Enterprise Program Director oversees all programmatic, administrative, financial and federal reporting matters related to the program. Specific duties include: * Provide support services for up to 25 business enterprise units operated by blind managers. * Develop staff competence to complete program functions. Conduct performance appraisals, disciplinary actions and signing off on leave requests. * Provide fiscal oversight of program and ensure all financial matters are handled appropriately. * Ensure appropriate training to qualified clients entering the vending programs, including interviewing and evaluation of potential managers. * Work with the Business Enterprise Consumer Committee (BECC) to ensure their active participation in major Administrative decisions and policy and program decisions affecting the overall administration of the program. * Propose such rules and regulations as may be required for the operation of the BE Program. * License and assign managers to units as they become available. * Make surveys of buildings or properties to determine their suitability as locations for vending facilities to be operated by blind persons. * Complete necessary contractual arrangements for establishment and operations of vending facilities with appropriate property management companies. * Arrange for the design, installation of equipment, supplies, and initial stock for new or remodeled units. * Prepare reports as may be required on status of BE Program. * Ensure availability of in-service and upward mobility training opportunities for facility managers. * Document contacts with BEP managers, public representatives and private vendors utilizing the BEP’s caseload management system. * Other duties as assigned. QUALIFICATIONS Bachelor's or higher degree in Social Work/Human Services/Business Administration or related field AND knowledge of the Randolph-Sheppard Act and Regulations; Oregon Revised Statutes regarding the BEP; and the BEP Rules and Regulations (Handbook). Knowledge of small business operation with an emphasis on vending and food service and management. Also, have knowledge of blindness and be able to select, train and assist legally blind individuals in successful management of their units. OR Bachelor's degree in a field not closely related AND one year of human services related experience working with business development initiatives for legally blind or other underrepresented individuals. AND knowledge of the Randolph-Sheppard Act and Regulations; Oregon Revised Statutes regarding the BEP; and the BEP Rules and Regulations (Handbook). Knowledge of small business operation with an emphasis on vending and food service and management. Also, have knowledge of blindness and be able to select, train and assist legally blind individuals in successful management of their units. SUBMIT THE FOLLOWING TO APPLY: 1) A completed Management Service Application Form (located at the end of this announcement) AND 2) A current resume. Your resume must clearly indicate that you meet the qualifications listed above. AND 3) An Oregon Application form PD100 that can be obtained from the following website: http://www.oregon.gov/DAS/STJOBS/stjobsapplication.shtml#Standard_Application__PD100_ AND 4) Answers to the following questions. Please limit your answers to half a page each. * Describe your experience managing a federal or state program supporting business enterprise or blind individuals. * Describe your experience working with an advisory body, such as the Business Enterprise Consumer Committee or other such entities. What is your philosophy or approach if your agency’s decisions are challenged by an advisory body? * Give two examples of instances you have resolved or been unable to resolve conflict in the workplace. You may deliver, mail, email or FAX your completed application to: E-mail your application to: recruitment.ocb at state.or.us Indicate announcement number LEBL0903 in the subject line. Or mail your application to: Oregon Commission for the Blind 535 SE 12th Ave. Portland, OR 97214 Or FAX your application to 971-673-1570 If you need assistance to participate in the application process, you are encouraged to call 503-945-5698 (voice) or 503-945-6214 (TTY) between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. (Pacific Time) Monday through Friday. Keep a copy of your application materials for your job interviews. The Oregon Commission for the Blind does not provide copies. Although faxing your application is an option, the Oregon Commission for the Blind is not responsible for materials that are illegible or missing as a result of FAX transmission errors or loss in the mail or e-mail. Due to the high volume of incoming applications, we are unable to verify receipt of applications. The salary on all announcements may change without notice. Notice of your application results will be sent to you by mail. Although agencies are not required to delay their selection process, you may request a review of your application results. This review request must be received in writing within 10 days from the date of the notice. Although, additional application information cannot be submitted for active applications, you may submit a new application when you feel you have new/updated qualification information. If you are offered employment, the offer will be contingent upon the outcome of a criminal background and driving records check. Any history of criminal activity will be reviewed and could result in the withdrawal of the offer or termination of employment. WORKING CONDITIONS Requires occasional lifting for short periods. Frequent statewide travel is required. Some out-of-state travel may be required. You must have a valid driver's license and an acceptable driving record. If not, you must be able to provide an alternate method of transportation. PLEASE CONSIDER JOINING US! The Oregon Commission for the Blind offers an array of benefits including medical, dental, and life insurance, as well as paid holidays, vacation and sick leave. For additional information, please refer to the following website for details: http://oregon.gov/DAS/OP/Benefits.shtml. The Oregon Commission for the Blind is committed to affirmative action, equal employment opportunity and workplace diversity. Oregon Commission for the Blind MANAGEMENT SERVICE APPLICATION FORM APPLICANT NAME: MAILING ADDRESS: EMPLOYEE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (REQUIRED): OR HOME PHONE: WORK PHONE: E-MAIL: ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­ POSITION: PEMB/Business Enterprise Program Director I understand that any oral or written statement that is false, fraudulent, or misleading in this material, or made in the course of any related employment process, whether made by me or by others at my request, will result in rejection of this material, denial of employment, or dismissal from state service if discovered after employment, and in many circumstances, prosecution for a crime. I certify that all statements contained herein are true and complete whether made by me or others at my request. I understand that I must prove that I am authorized to work in the United States if I am hired. I authorize the employing agency to verify the employment and education information provided in this material. I authorize my driving record to be checked if the position for which I am applying requires driving. I understand and agree to a pre-employment drug screening and a criminal history background check. APPLICANT SIGNATURE: DATE: RECRUITMENT TRACKING INFORMATION PLEASE COMPLETE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION: Job Applied For: Classification Number: ___________________ Announcement Number: HOW DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THIS POSITION? Newspaper (List Publication) State Jobs Page State Agency website Other website (List website) Employee Referral Friend Other: VOLUNTARY INFORMATION The information you provide below is voluntary. Affirmative Action The State of Oregon has an Affirmative Action Policy. If you choose to provide this information, it will help us evaluate the effectiveness of our affirmative action programs. This will also be used for research and statistical purposes. Ethnic Background (check only one) (A) Asian or Pacific Islander: Persons having origins in any of the peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, the Indian subcontinent, or the Pacific Islands. This area includes, for example, China, Japan, Korea, the Philippine Islands and Samoa. (B) African American (not of Hispanic origin): Persons having origins in any of the black ethnic groups. (H) Hispanic: Persons having origins in any of the Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American or other Spanish cultures, regardless of ethnicity. (I) Native American or Alaskan Native: Persons having origins in any of the original peoples of North America, and who maintain cultural identification through tribal affiliation or community recognition. (W) Caucasian (not of Hispanic origin): Persons having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, North Africa or the Middle East. Gender: MALE FEMALE Disabled: YES NO (Checking the “yes” box has no effect on an employer's obligation to provide reasonable accommodation under state and federal disability laws.) ATTENTION: Attach this page to your application materials, even if you do not provide the voluntary information. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4445 (20090921) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Tue Sep 22 14:44:26 2009 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:44:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: [duxuser] Braille Grammars--Latin, French, and Spanish Needing Good Homes Message-ID: <03B0A005F7DA4106AB1D2040728F4909@D3DTZP41> Hello: I am forwarding this since I thought it might be of interest. Regards, Robert Jaquiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Thomas" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:08 AM Subject: [duxuser] Braille Grammars--Latin, French, and Spanish Needing Good Homes > > > Please write to me off-list if your agency or collection of braille > materials would benefit from these high school and/or college-level > grammars. > Thank you, and thanks also to Duxbury for letting me post this. > Catherine > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -Catherine Thomas > braille at panix.com / > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > * * * > * This message is via list duxuser at freelists.org. > * To unsubscribe, send a blank message with > * unsubscribe > * as the subject to . You may also > * subscribe, unsubscribe, and set vacation mode and other subscription > * options by visiting http://www.freelists.org. The list archive > * is also located there. > * Duxbury Systems' web site is http://www.duxburysystems.com > * * * From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue Sep 22 16:29:50 2009 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:29:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sam Broadcaster or Station Playlist Message-ID: <014701ca3ba1$e8a06680$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello everyone, I'm on the verge of purchasing radio broadcast software for use during convention streaming and other purposes. Before putting the plastic down I wanted to find out if you have found the Sam Broadcaster or Station Playlist family of radio station software more blind-friendly. Right now we're leaning towards Station Playlist; particularly since there are JAWS scripts available for it. Has anyone created similar scripts for the Sam Broadcaster? I thought I heard that someone produced podcasts demonstrating these products. If so can you tell me where I can download them from? Thanks for the advice and assistance. Your thoughts and feedback will greatly aid our final decision. All the best. Peter Donahue "Will you come and awake our lost land from its slumber And her fetters we'll break, links that long are encumbered. And the air will resound with hosannas to greet you On the shore will be found gallant Irishmen to greet you." Will You Come to the Bower Traditional Irish Folk Song From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 20:24:48 2009 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:24:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote mPower BT 32 for Sale Message-ID: <7202614FF21C47C49AC57576FC3E67FF@Rufus> I am selling a BrailleNote mPower BT 32. It was last serviced in January of this year with new battery and display cleaning. If I had to pick the top three best qualities of the unit they would be the crisp Braille display, the context sensitive help system and ease of menu navigation. >From the manufacturer's website: The BrailleNote mPower BT provides a choice of output options by combining a crisp, high definition Braille display with clear, responsive speech. Features • 32 cell refreshable Braille display • Nine-key Braille keyboard • Speech output • Effortless thumb navigation by line, sentence, or paragraph • One-handed mode for people with limited mobility • Context sensitive help and indexed user guide • Serves as a Braille display for PC\'s screen reader • Weight: 1.3kg / 2.9lb • Dimensions: 25cm x 15.5cm x 5cm / 9.9” x 6.1” x 2” The package comes in its original box but only includes the unit, carrying case and AC adapter. I am asking $2,500 but will entertain the best offer. The list price was $6,195. If interested, please write to jsorozco at gmail.com. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4448 (20090922) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 21:26:12 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:26:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090918033709.5690.8802@web3.serotek.com> <54f02f10909172146h211220f2o29bdbc8e5e9a672b@mail.gmail.com> <2E6FF7358C2E44E08E70038E3002328B@teal6e6857f643> <44B5723640C042B48CAF7D5EFC1FC0FD@Yoka> <2149656451DE45789C6B786708D2CF3E@teal6e6857f643><0D33E466C1DF49089EFC0F5278BFE181@Yoka> <4AB56CF8.3000508@pcdesk.net> <4AB59DBD.4050908@pcdesk.net><5350451F4B89443CA31A18D0D6012909@teal6e6857f643><4AB6ACB9.5000409@pcdesk.net><51DAFB7EE1034FBDA021D06844DE3C74@teal6e6857f643><0D2F062ABD0240D59A4E747AFFCFDF10@SonyPC><76D103D57C264B7FAFBF6D7469FB702F@teal6e6857f643> <15A8403885D74B01A660937982EFAF25@SonyPC> Message-ID: Hello All Today in developmental psych my teacher was talking about babies imitating adults facial expressions. Adult leans over crib and makes a face with a noise like ooh aww and baby mimics this. Then i caught her off guard like if baby couldnt see this facial expression. This was appropriate since i am the only totally blind person in my schools history and i have a guide dog. She replied with certain words naturally give yu the appropriate facial expression. This meand that happy things give yu a smile naturally and mean things are hard to say with a smile. This may answer the conversation we had going. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >I have dark glasses because of severe light sensitivity. I didn't intend to >imply I was emotionless, just that people say I am. > > I have been blind since birth. I don't intend to look unfriendly, just > friends and family and the like say I do. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >> believe....maybe the facial expression you do show is presumibly >> unfriendly? >> >> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >> alittle stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure >> why and i say i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is >> probably a psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all >> the time and in department stores it seems to be lighter because of the >> numerous florescent lighting but other times i cannot really tell for >> sure whether i am in a lighted room or not. Have you been blind or >> visually impaired since birth? I have found a slight difference in >> personality characteristics in people blind since birth and those that >> have become blind in the middle of life. And honestly i have heard of >> people who wear the dark shades but never personally met anyone that >> does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>> facial expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware >>> else on the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>> make/keep eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they >>> think I am too unreadable at times. >>> >>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>> situations. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt >>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability >>>> to look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>> people say i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical >>>> blind person looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are >>>> describing comes naturally from your environment and maturation during >>>> infancy. We are actually talking about this in developmental psych. >>>> Reflexes like reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>> developmental stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these >>>> through environment and social interaction while others say it is a >>>> specific cognative change in our biological being. >>>> >>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic >>>> is a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>> off or sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing >>>> other peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these >>>> emotions through personality development of what actions give you these >>>> feelings, then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>> >>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>> >>>> -Teal >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>> >>>>> Teal, >>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>> other >>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>> even >>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>> never >>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>> >>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>> I've >>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had >>>>> a >>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took >>>>> the >>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>> was, >>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>> more >>>>> problems. >>>>> >>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said >>>>> I >>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>> face >>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>> question. >>>>> >>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>> learning >>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. >>>>> For >>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought >>>>> the >>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>> done >>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>> taught >>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack >>>>> of >>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>> - -- >>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>>> >>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>> =gV8x >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 21:29:40 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:29:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com> Message-ID: <94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this gave me an indifferent impression. Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw and was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero and gave me some saying i will use in the future. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > Teal, > > I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice too > much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight at > some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality differences > between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life experiences shape our > perceptions, but not so much so that it fundamentally changes an > individual on such a deep level. That is, unless they let it. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >> believe....maybe >> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? > >> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >> alittle >> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and i >> say >> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time and >> in >> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >> florescent >> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in a >> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >> birth? I >> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in people >> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of life. >> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? > >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>> facial >>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else on >>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't make/keep >>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I am >>> too unreadable at times. > >>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>> situations. > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI isnt >>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability >>>> to >>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people >>>> say >>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing comes >>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental >>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment >>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>> change >>>> in our biological being. > >>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic >>>> is >>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off >>>> or >>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>> feelings, >>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. > >>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major > >>>> -Teal > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA256 > >>>>> Teal, >>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>> other >>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>> even >>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>> never >>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. > >>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>> I've >>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that actually >>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We had >>>>> a >>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took >>>>> the >>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room and >>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>> was, >>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. I >>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>> more >>>>> problems. > >>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I was >>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all said >>>>> I >>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>> face >>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>> question. > >>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>> learning >>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. >>>>> For >>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought >>>>> the >>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with certain >>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able to, >>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>> done >>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>> taught >>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack >>>>> of >>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>> - -- >>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, > >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > >>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>> =gV8x >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > B > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From jaedpo96 at aol.com Tue Sep 22 21:49:15 2009 From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:49:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note In-Reply-To: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> References: <84BD226B816E4BE1A11EA1CA636D64F6@windows4c0ed96> Message-ID: <8CC09E5A992B592-90F0-8029@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com> Hi everyone it's Jasn. A netbook has a built in wireless card for the internet, and a braille note doesn't. My netbook holds 2 gigs and my braille note holds 120 megabites. I have never used the internet because you have to buy a wireless card and our wireless network is secure, and the man that programed my netbook to work with our wireless doesn't know braille and can't work on braille notes. My Mom wants me to use the netbook for the internet because she wants me to learn how to use JAWS well on the computer because when I have a job, my boss would wnt me to use a computer so he can see what I'm doing. He wouldn't learn braille just because I am working for him. -----Original Message----- From: V Nork To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:46 pm Subject: [nabs-l] Question about netbooks and braille note Hi Rachel and all,, Do you feel the braille note is an alternative to a netbook? I have never had access to a braille note, sure I know I can read up on it, but it is wonderful to have thoughts from all of you great folks on the front lines of being students, so to speak. Thanks for sharing any expertise, Ginnie _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 22:23:43 2009 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:23:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NEW York State students online Conference Message-ID: Hi all, for those who live in New York State, and have not subscribed or have not been keeping up with the Yahoo group(newyorkassociationofblindstudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com.) New York State will have an online conference. The details are below as posted on the Yahoo Group. Skype can hold up to 25 people in one conference, provided the host's computer can handle the load. Any hardcore skype users are welcome to host. My Skype user name is Mr.Elex. I am willing to host the conference if no one else wants to host. We will do a skype chat as well for those of us who will not participate in the voice call. Please submit the skype user names of those who will participate by tomorrow night. And if you want to host, state that as well. We should start at around 9:45 this Wednesday the 23rd. Also as a note, if there are any problems, or enough people prefer the phone to Skype, we can still do a phone conference. This is a sure thing; however we will not have the text chat feature available for those who cannot do voice chatting. In case of a Skype disaster, the phone conference number to call is (712) 432-1438 And the access code is 1041787. Thanks, Alex From kramc11 at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 22:30:33 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:30:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com> <94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth > and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a > wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child when > he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents since he > was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this gave me an > indifferent impression. > > Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw and > was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero and > gave me some saying i will use in the future. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> Teal, >> >> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice too >> much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight at >> some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, unless >> they let it. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> >> Original message: >>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>> believe....maybe >>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >> >>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>> alittle >>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and i >>> say >>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time and >>> in >>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>> florescent >>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in a >>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>> birth? I >>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in people >>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>> life. >>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? >> >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>> facial >>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>> on >>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>> make/keep >>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I am >>>> too unreadable at times. >> >>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>> situations. >> >> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>> isnt >>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability >>>>> to >>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people >>>>> say >>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>> comes >>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct developmental >>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through environment >>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>> change >>>>> in our biological being. >> >>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic >>>>> is >>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off >>>>> or >>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>> feelings, >>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >> >>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >> >>>>> -Teal >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >> >>>>>> Teal, >>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>> other >>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>> even >>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>> never >>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >> >>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>> I've >>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>> actually >>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>> had a >>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for a >>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took >>>>>> the >>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>> and >>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>> was, >>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. >>>>>> I >>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>> more >>>>>> problems. >> >>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>> was >>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>> said I >>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>> face >>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>> question. >> >>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>> learning >>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't work >>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. >>>>>> For >>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought >>>>>> the >>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>> certain >>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing in >>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>> to, >>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>> done >>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>> taught >>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas on >>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of lack >>>>>> of >>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>> - -- >>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >> >>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> >>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> B >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From jty727 at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 23:06:59 2009 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 19:06:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NEW York State students online Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54d8179e0909221606m4a60a790r358c4e12e1a84a55@mail.gmail.com> Hi Alex! I love this idea. Unfortunately I have another event during the listed time frame. Is there a way those who don't have time to particapate in the conference can get what was discussed at the conference or something? Justin On 9/22/09, Alexander Castillo wrote: > Hi all, for those who live in New York State, and have not subscribed > or have not been keeping up with the Yahoo > group(newyorkassociationofblindstudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com.) > New York State will have an online conference. The details are below > as posted on the Yahoo Group. > > Skype can hold up to 25 people in one conference, > provided the host's computer can handle the load. > Any hardcore skype users are welcome to host. My Skype user name is > Mr.Elex. I am willing to host the conference if no one else wants to > host. We will do a skype chat as well for those of us who will not > participate in the voice call. > > Please submit the skype user names of those who will participate by > tomorrow night. And if you want to host, state that as well. > > We should start at around 9:45 this Wednesday the 23rd. > > Also as a note, if there are any problems, or enough people prefer the > phone to Skype, we can still do a phone conference. This is a sure > thing; however we will not have the text chat feature available for > those who cannot do voice chatting. > > In case of a Skype disaster, the phone conference number to call is > (712) 432-1438 > > And the access code is 1041787. > > Thanks, > Alex > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Tue Sep 22 23:56:20 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:56:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com><94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> <6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> Message-ID: Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things like this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going to have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around people without knowing how to act. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have >a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the >miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >> gave me an indifferent impression. >> >> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw and >> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero and >> gave me some saying i will use in the future. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jedi" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>> Teal, >>> >>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight >>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>> unless they let it. >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> >>> >>> Original message: >>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>> believe....maybe >>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>> >>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>> alittle >>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>> i say >>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>> and in >>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>> florescent >>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>> a >>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>> birth? I >>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in people >>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>> life. >>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? >>> >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>> facial >>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>> on >>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>> make/keep >>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>> am >>>>> too unreadable at times. >>> >>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>> situations. >>> >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>> isnt >>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability >>>>>> to >>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people >>>>>> say >>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>> comes >>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>> developmental >>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>> environment >>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>> change >>>>>> in our biological being. >>> >>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic >>>>>> is >>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off >>>>>> or >>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>> feelings, >>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>> >>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>> >>>>>> -Teal >>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>> >>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>> other >>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>> even >>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>> never >>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>> >>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>> I've >>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>> actually >>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>> had a >>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>> was, >>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> problems. >>> >>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>> said I >>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>> face >>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>> question. >>> >>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>> learning >>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. >>>>>>> For >>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>> certain >>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>> to, >>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>> done >>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>> taught >>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>> >>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>> >>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> B >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 01:27:02 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:27:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com> <94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> <6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> Message-ID: Hello All. I have not been following this thread faithfully, however, I just schemed through and found some very interesting questions that are actually not unique in this setting. I am a psychology major at Emory University, where research is our middle name! Thus, some of this facial expression experiments have been conducted here. but I will just talk about a very classic experiment by Paul Ekman. Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures from all around the world. He took clips of those videos and classified the facial expression, by categorizing what muscles in the face were used to make those expressions. As he watched more and more clipse he determined a clear pattern of emotions, of people across cultures who had never met each other, some of which had not tv or access to the outside world, and who had radically different customs and traditions. He then took pictures of different faces and asked others what emotion the subject in the picture was experiencing. He discovered that for the most part most people could tell what the picture was showing. Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which are: Anger Disgust Fear Happiness Sadness Surprise Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, contempt, pride, excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, satisfaction, sensory pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All this is to say, that facial expression are not cultural or learned behavior, but rather biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face reflect at the very least these emotions that I listed. The only difference is that we are not readily conscious of how we make these face of guilt for example. Sighted people can look in the mirror and practice looking ashamed, it is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain lowering of the brows, we have to think about it and consciously make an effort if we want to become proficient at making these expressions at will. I am a performer as well, and one of the big things I work on is facial expression, how do I consciously convey to the audience what I'm feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And it is a valid skill to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a little bit that anger we fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a little long. But all this is to merely say, that when you are pissed off, it will show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not show any facial expression or significantly lack body language, this is not do to being blind and not having learned expressions, it is rather a personality thing, and it probably just means that you are much more cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than most people. Mary On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if > they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a > waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it > harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things like > this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going to > have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around > people without knowing how to act. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have >>a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >>people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the >>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>> >>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw and >>> >>> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero and >>> >>> gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>> >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jedi" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>> Teal, >>>> >>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight >>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>> unless they let it. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>> believe....maybe >>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>> >>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>> alittle >>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>> i say >>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>> and in >>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>> florescent >>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>> a >>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>> birth? I >>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in people >>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>> life. >>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do so? >>>> >>>>> -Teal >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>> facial >>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>> on >>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>> make/keep >>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>> am >>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>> >>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>> situations. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and ability >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception people >>>>>>> >>>>>>> say >>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>> comes >>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We are >>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>> environment >>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>> change >>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>> >>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this topic >>>>>>> >>>>>>> is >>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed off >>>>>>> >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>> >>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>> >>>>>>> -Teal >>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>> >>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>> >>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and took >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I was. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried to >>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> problems. >>>> >>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister even >>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>> question. >>>> >>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive expressions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I thought >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>> >>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>> >>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> B >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From kramc11 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 01:35:17 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:35:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com><94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643><6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> Message-ID: What you are not taking into consideration is does this kid you are referring to have multiple disabilities? Does he have some sort of cognitive challenge on top of his blindness? You can't necessarily know if he does or not if he is high functioning. Another factor is what happened to this kid when he was little. What influenced his behavior? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if > they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a > waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it > harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things > like this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are > going to have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been > around people without knowing how to act. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have >>a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >>people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the >>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>> >>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw >>> and was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my >>> hero and gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>> >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jedi" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>> Teal, >>>> >>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight >>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>> unless they let it. >>>> >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi >>>> >>>> >>>> Original message: >>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>> believe....maybe >>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>> >>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>> alittle >>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>> i say >>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>> and in >>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>> florescent >>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>> a >>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>> birth? I >>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in >>>>> people >>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>> life. >>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>> so? >>>> >>>>> -Teal >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>> facial >>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>> on >>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>> make/keep >>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>> am >>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>> >>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>> situations. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>> ability to >>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>> people say >>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>> comes >>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>> environment >>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>> change >>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>> >>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>> topic is >>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>> off or >>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>> >>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>> >>>>>>> -Teal >>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>> >>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>> >>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>> took the >>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>> was. I >>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> problems. >>>> >>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>> question. >>>> >>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>> expressions. For >>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>> thought the >>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>> >>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>> >>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>> B >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From mwillows at sbcglobal.net Wed Sep 23 03:18:16 2009 From: mwillows at sbcglobal.net (Mary Willows) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:18:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Bridging for Braille and California convention Message-ID: Fellow Federationists, The deadline for pre-registering for the California 2009 convention is only 15 days away. Don't miss the first "Bridging for Braille" event. Whozit will meet his friends at the Golden Gate Bridge and walk the bridge to bring the message of braille literacy to the San Francisco Bay Area. This event will mark the beginning of the California state convention. For more information about the convention registration walking, or sponsoring a walker go to www.nfbcal.org Mary Willows, President National Federation of the Blind of California mwillows at sbcglobal.net From dandrews at visi.com Wed Sep 23 03:23:37 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:23:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Thruoureyes Show Announcement Message-ID: > > >The next Thruoureyes with Joe Ruffalo internet radio program is >scheduled for tomorrow > >Wednesday September 23 at > >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />8:00 PM EST. Mr. >Ruffalo will be speaking with Vincent Chaney about the concerns and >available technology pertaining to blind diabetics. A portion of >the program will also inform listeners about the new developments >within the New Jersey affiliate. > > To listen to the program via telephone, please call > >1-605-475-6333, access code: > >833520. > >To access the show online visit www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html > >The call in number for anyone > >interested in asking a question during the interview is 1-888-572-0141 From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 04:03:41 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:03:41 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I don’t know much of the literature beyond what’s already been stated. I do think it’s true that automatic things like smiling and frowning shouldn’t be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual activities like mimicking other people’s movements, etc. But, I’m also optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out there who developed without major issues or problems. People and especially babies are amazingly resilient. Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about blind children. It’s been well-documented that lots of blind kids and adults engage in behaviors that are “socially inappropriate” or whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us seems to be that if someone who’s blind consistently does anything that’s weird, obnoxious, etc. it’s because they “just don’t know any better” and they’ve been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue that what they’re doing would have any negative effects on them or on anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth to them, they’d immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, or whatever the term may be. OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that this “lack of knowledge” explanation is just the tip of the iceberg and there’s a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and also because of my personal experience. As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child—more than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some things that almost everyone around me thought were socially inappropriate. I won’t go into a huge amount of detail but I would, for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I didn’t reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that “social skills” made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded for “good” ones. And yet I kept doing the same “bad” things anyway. Why? I don’t entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were “wrong” but I didn’t understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness because it was always on my IEP, but I didn’t know how I was supposed to act, so I couldn’t improve. I also think part of it had to do with lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn’t like it when I made these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, so it really didn’t matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I think I knew that I wasn’t directly hurting anybody—I definitely wanted to avoid doing that—and so I honestly didn’t understand what the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that’s almost a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I’m not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I’ve figured out how to get along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone else’s needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who’ve put up with me for years and a boyfriend who’s put up with me for a few months. I don’t poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even managed to get elected president of this student organization. My imperfections have remained, but somehow I’ve figured out how to turn them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I’ve also discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn’t work in social interactions, and I’ve felt the rewards of good behavior. So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn’t expect all blind people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the so-called “rules” all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care less about whether or not my behavior was “appropriate”, but I probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than just tell them what they’re doing isn’t cool. First of all, we need to stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model good behavior—everything from good hygiene to being nice to each other—as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. Butt-Wiggler probably won’t stop until he decides he wants to to impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people become adults, I think it’s harder for them to get motivated to make lasting change. But, it’s certainly not impossible. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From iamantonio at cox.net Wed Sep 23 04:29:23 2009 From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:29:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish References: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CC06C280A6DACB-2640-243D9@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> <009501ca38b4$e2677460$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: Serena, You say there are no contractions in Spanish braille. I don't think we know that for sure. It would be more accurate to say that there are no contractions in American Spanish braille. I bet that if you go to Mexico, and Spain, and south-american countries, they will use contractions in their braille. I am Brazilian, and I know with as certainty as I have about being alive that there absolutely is a contracted portuguese braille. There is just no reason for Americans studying portuguese to make a practice of learning it when they learn portuguese. They will need contacts in Brazil or portugal to guide them through how to write abbreviated Portuguese braille. I don't hold you to the fire on this one, but way too many times I heard people say that English is the only language with abbreviated braille. this is a real narrow view of braille in the world today. Antonio Guimaraes If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary works in Braille. Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > Hi Jason > > Your Braille teacher says the Spanish program on the Braillenote is hard > to use--that's a bunch of BS! Once you create a file, all you do is press > enter and the letter "l" together to switch to Spanish. Just use the > signs you hopefully already know for the accents and the "en" sign for > questionmark and dot 3 for apostrophe. Remember, there are no > contractions in Spanish Braille. > > Serena > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Polansky" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > > >> Hi my name is Jason and I am taking spanish. I use a braille note, and my >> vision teacher is ordering me the spanish program. She says that it is >> hard to use. I think the school system might order me a laptop. Maybe if >> you give me the commands too, then I can use the laptop in spanish class. >> My spanish teacher told me to avoid the accent marks until I get the >> spanish program on my braille note. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Harry Hogue >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> >> Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 3:55 am >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >> >> Hi Lindsay, >> >> You can change your keyboard layout to write in Spanish, at least in >> Windows. Let me know if you're interested in knowing how to do this and >> I can tell you how. It allows you to press the apostrophe followed by >> the letter you want accented, and shift with some other symbols--the >> inverted question mark, exclamation point, etc. I can give you the key >> commands, bu the best thing to do, I've found, is once you ahve it >> changed over, just turn JAWS or Voiceover to read characters and play >> around with the different symbols. >> >> >> I use a Focus 40 with JAWS, so I don't know if my display functions >> different as far as table layout, but I switch mine to ESP 438 or >> something like that. It's the only "esp" in there. You can, of course, >> always use another table, but those are the traditional symbols for what >> I guess is considered official Spanish Braille. Please odn't hesitate to >> write me off list if you have any other questions or need help with >> Spanish or whatever. It's a great language. >> >> Harry >> >> >> --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Lindsay Yazzolino wrote: >> >>> From: Lindsay Yazzolino >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:51 AM >>> Hi, >>> I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you >>> could tell >>> me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols >>> correctly. >>> I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to >>> be able to >>> read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would >>> also >>> greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this >>> with JAWS >>> as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish >>> symbols, >>> perhaps using unicode? Thanks. >>> >>> Lindsay >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Sep 23 05:07:39 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:07:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Message-ID: <20090923050739.19467.86146@web3.serotek.com> Teal, I noticed how, in the beginning, you stated that those blind from birth have (in your experience) different personality characteristics than those not been blind from birth. I also noticed that you mentioned only one guy you know who is socially awkward. No offense, but it seems to me that you've made a generalization based on one person and based on only one characteristic. I actually find myself a little disturbed at that. I have certainly seen my fare share of socially awkward blind people, but I've also seen my fare share of similar sighted people. Perhaps they seem awkward in different ways, but I also know that awkwardness is easier to spot in the blind since the blind have a salient characteristic that's easy to blame for awkward behavior. In other words, social awkwardness is easier to spot in the blind since we're already biased toward thinking that the blind are in some way fundamentally different from the sighted since the blind can't see, especially when our society seems to think that vision is necessary for appropriate non-verbal communication and since the people in question have been blind since birth. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > What you are not taking into consideration is does this kid you are > referring to have multiple disabilities? Does he have some sort of cognitive > challenge on top of his blindness? You can't necessarily know if he does or > not if he is high functioning. > Another factor is what happened to this kid when he was little. What > influenced his behavior? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things >> like this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are >> going to have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been >> around people without knowing how to act. >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>> birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>> this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>> themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have >>> a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >>> people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the >>> miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw >>>> and was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my >>>> hero and gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jedi" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> Teal, >>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>> unless they let it. >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>> alittle >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>>> i say >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>> and in >>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>> florescent >>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>>> a >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>> birth? I >>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>> people >>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>> life. >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>> so? >>>>>> -Teal >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>> facial >>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>> situations. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>> ability to >>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>> people say >>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>> topic is >>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>> off or >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>>>>>> -Teal >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>> took the >>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>> was. I >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>> expressions. For >>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>> thought the >>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> B >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 05:35:19 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:35:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com> <94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> <6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> Message-ID: <409c235c0909222235i5214fd2ft93d9ef83d2808a2a@mail.gmail.com> a couple of things that were interesting were the concept of space. I find so much that people will grap you and push you to redirect you; something you would clearly not do to a sighted individual. I wonder what logical reason people have cross their minds to make it ok. to do something like that. As for people identifying themselves; some people do a rather good job of saying where I've met them ( that is those who don't screw up my name lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I would actually hold a conversation with someone for a couple of minutes and within this conversation I could figure out what project they had, what team they were on, and by doing so I was able to successfully id the person. So the only way I think this relates back, is sometimes you just have to kind of make a person talk a bit and you'll probably find out who it is if you have time to. On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello All. > I have not been following this thread faithfully, however, I just > schemed through and found some very interesting questions that are > actually not unique in this setting. I am a psychology major at Emory > University, where research is our middle name! Thus, some of this > facial expression experiments have been conducted here. but I will > just talk about a very classic experiment by Paul Ekman. > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures from all around the > world. He took clips of those videos and classified the facial > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the face were used to make > those expressions. As he watched more and more clipse he determined a > clear pattern of emotions, of people across cultures who had never met > each other, some of which had not tv or access to the outside world, > and who had radically different customs and traditions. > He then took pictures of different faces and asked others what emotion > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He discovered that for > the most part most people could tell what the picture was showing. > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which are: > Anger > Disgust > Fear > Happiness > Sadness > Surprise > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, contempt, pride, > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, satisfaction, sensory > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All this is to say, that > facial expression are not cultural or learned behavior, but rather > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face reflect at the very > least these emotions that I listed. The only difference is that we are > not readily conscious of how we make these face of guilt for example. > Sighted people can look in the mirror and practice looking ashamed, it > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain lowering of the brows, we > have to think about it and consciously make an effort if we want to > become proficient at making these expressions at will. I am a > performer as well, and one of the big things I work on is facial > expression, how do I consciously convey to the audience what I'm > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And it is a valid skill > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a little bit that anger we > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a little long. > But all this is to merely say, that when you are pissed off, it will > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not show any facial > expression or significantly lack body language, this is not do to > being blind and not having learned expressions, it is rather a > personality thing, and it probably just means that you are much more > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than most people. > Mary > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things >> like >> this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going to >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around >> people without knowing how to act. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>> >>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw >>>> and >>>> >>>> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero >>>> and >>>> >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>>> >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jedi" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Teal, >>>>> >>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>> unless they let it. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>> >>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>> alittle >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>>> i say >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>> and in >>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>> florescent >>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>>> a >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>> birth? I >>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>> people >>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>> life. >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>> so? >>>>> >>>>>> -Teal >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>> facial >>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>> >>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>> situations. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>>> >>>>>>>> -Teal >>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>> took >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>>> question. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>> expressions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>>> >>>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> B >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 15:34:01 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:34:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com><94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643><6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> <409c235c0909222235i5214fd2ft93d9ef83d2808a2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yes this is true. And the reason people tend to grabl you is because they think you are incompetant. Not all people are this way. When me and a few friends went out in the big city of louisbille kentucky we had numerous people grab our arms...hard enough to even bruise then drag us what they think to be the right way. My favorite people are the ones that ask questions. but you are right. engage in a friendly conversation then politely ask their name. People i am around frequently even if i do not recognize their voice they announce themself when approaching me. My old school did an article on me and the other blind guy and they quoted me about talking to someone for thirty minutes and never knowing who they were which of course helped. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:35 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >a couple of things that were interesting were the concept of space. > I find so much that people will grap you and push you to redirect > you; something you would clearly not do to a sighted individual. I > wonder what logical reason people have cross their minds to make it > ok. to do something like that. > > As for people identifying themselves; some people do a rather good > job of saying where I've met them ( that is those who don't screw > up my name lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I would actually > hold a conversation with someone for a couple of minutes and within > this conversation I could figure out what project they had, what > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to successfully id the > person. So the only way I think this relates back, is sometimes > you just have to kind of make a person talk a bit and you'll > probably find out who it is if you have time to. > > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> Hello All. >> I have not been following this thread faithfully, however, I just >> schemed through and found some very interesting questions that are >> actually not unique in this setting. I am a psychology major at Emory >> University, where research is our middle name! Thus, some of this >> facial expression experiments have been conducted here. but I will >> just talk about a very classic experiment by Paul Ekman. >> Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures from all around the >> world. He took clips of those videos and classified the facial >> expression, by categorizing what muscles in the face were used to make >> those expressions. As he watched more and more clipse he determined a >> clear pattern of emotions, of people across cultures who had never met >> each other, some of which had not tv or access to the outside world, >> and who had radically different customs and traditions. >> He then took pictures of different faces and asked others what emotion >> the subject in the picture was experiencing. He discovered that for >> the most part most people could tell what the picture was showing. >> Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which are: >> Anger >> Disgust >> Fear >> Happiness >> Sadness >> Surprise >> Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, contempt, pride, >> excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, satisfaction, sensory >> pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All this is to say, that >> facial expression are not cultural or learned behavior, but rather >> biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face reflect at the very >> least these emotions that I listed. The only difference is that we are >> not readily conscious of how we make these face of guilt for example. >> Sighted people can look in the mirror and practice looking ashamed, it >> is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain lowering of the brows, we >> have to think about it and consciously make an effort if we want to >> become proficient at making these expressions at will. I am a >> performer as well, and one of the big things I work on is facial >> expression, how do I consciously convey to the audience what I'm >> feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And it is a valid skill >> to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a little bit that anger we >> fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a little long. >> But all this is to merely say, that when you are pissed off, it will >> show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not show any facial >> expression or significantly lack body language, this is not do to >> being blind and not having learned expressions, it is rather a >> personality thing, and it probably just means that you are much more >> cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than most people. >> Mary >> >> On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: >>> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad >>> if >>> they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically >>> a >>> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is >>> it >>> harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things >>> like >>> this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going >>> to >>> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around >>> people without knowing how to act. >>> >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>>>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>>>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I >>>>have >>>>a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >>>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain >>>>the >>>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since >>>>> birth >>>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do >>>>> a >>>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess >>>>> this >>>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>>> >>>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>>>> >>>>> -Teal >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jedi" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Teal, >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had >>>>>> sight >>>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>>>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>>>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>>> unless they let it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>> Jedi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>>> >>>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>>> alittle >>>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> i say >>>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>>> and in >>>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>>> florescent >>>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>>> birth? I >>>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>>> life. >>>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but >>>>>>> never >>>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>>> so? >>>>>> >>>>>>> -Teal >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>>> facial >>>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware >>>>>>>> else >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the >>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>>> situations. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind >>>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Teal >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never >>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking >>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that >>>>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with >>>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. >>>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>>> took >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel >>>>>>>>>> room >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center >>>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to >>>>>>>>>> kill >>>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of >>>>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who >>>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's >>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>>> expressions. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, >>>>>>>>>> seeing >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been >>>>>>>>>> able >>>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments >>>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any >>>>>>>>>> ideas >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of >>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>> B >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> President Barack Obama >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 15:49:48 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:49:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: yeah i agree with you on hearing all of the visual aspects of development. It makes you wonder how some of the greatest people that happen to be blind have made it as far as they have. Also thinking about it there are probably the same amount of socially awkward people who are sighted as those who are not. Also i know i need more accomodations than the average student but i usually wait until after class and pull the professor aside rather than asking in the middle of class and alienating myself. I didnt mean all were socially awkward i have just had encounters that made the question arise. Honestly some of the people whom i consider a hero are totally blind and have anywhere from a PhD to masters or maybe nothing at all. The fact that they have these challenges but still have the will to succeed is honorable and gives me determination. As for social norms some of them are alittle unrealistic. Besides really who decides what is normal? Yes statistics but really looking at the list of social norms do you know more people that fit them or more that dont? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:03 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Hi all, As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I don’t know much of the literature beyond what’s already been stated. I do think it’s true that automatic things like smiling and frowning shouldn’t be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual activities like mimicking other people’s movements, etc. But, I’m also optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out there who developed without major issues or problems. People and especially babies are amazingly resilient. Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about blind children. It’s been well-documented that lots of blind kids and adults engage in behaviors that are “socially inappropriate” or whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us seems to be that if someone who’s blind consistently does anything that’s weird, obnoxious, etc. it’s because they “just don’t know any better” and they’ve been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue that what they’re doing would have any negative effects on them or on anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth to them, they’d immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, or whatever the term may be. OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that this “lack of knowledge” explanation is just the tip of the iceberg and there’s a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and also because of my personal experience. As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child—more than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some things that almost everyone around me thought were socially inappropriate. I won’t go into a huge amount of detail but I would, for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I didn’t reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that “social skills” made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded for “good” ones. And yet I kept doing the same “bad” things anyway. Why? I don’t entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were “wrong” but I didn’t understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness because it was always on my IEP, but I didn’t know how I was supposed to act, so I couldn’t improve. I also think part of it had to do with lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn’t like it when I made these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, so it really didn’t matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I think I knew that I wasn’t directly hurting anybody—I definitely wanted to avoid doing that—and so I honestly didn’t understand what the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that’s almost a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I’m not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I’ve figured out how to get along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone else’s needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who’ve put up with me for years and a boyfriend who’s put up with me for a few months. I don’t poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even managed to get elected president of this student organization. My imperfections have remained, but somehow I’ve figured out how to turn them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I’ve also discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn’t work in social interactions, and I’ve felt the rewards of good behavior. So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn’t expect all blind people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the so-called “rules” all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care less about whether or not my behavior was “appropriate”, but I probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than just tell them what they’re doing isn’t cool. First of all, we need to stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model good behavior—everything from good hygiene to being nice to each other—as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. Butt-Wiggler probably won’t stop until he decides he wants to to impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people become adults, I think it’s harder for them to get motivated to make lasting change. But, it’s certainly not impossible. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 16:34:47 2009 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:34:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice Message-ID: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> I don't really want to go into agonizing detail at this moment as I am still on campus winding down and regaining my composure after a heated battle, but does anyone on this list know where or how I, as a blind student, can find affordable or voluntary legal advice, or if it comes to it, a lawyer to represent me in an issue involving equal access to course materials and discrimination? Thanks -Jamie From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 17:23:56 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:23:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I really enjoyed Arielle's post, and I felt that it alluded or perhaps more so reminded me of a recent realization I had. I lost my sight in middle school, and since that point have encountered a large array of social questions and appropriate behavior from countless parents. My mother did not have to do much in regards to restricting inappropriate behavior, but recognized that some of the mannerisms that come with blindness are not limited to those who have been blind their whole life. I was asked not to rock, poke my eyes, and several other things for the first few years, in which those tendencies seemed to not be an issue any more. My point however is that I personally find myself chasing this visual perfection, and until recently I never stepped back to see how wrong it is. I constantly find myself very embarrassed if I cook something wrong, spill a glass of water, break a cheap whine glass, or something else that I contribute to being blind related. However, thanks to my girlfriend I find that I am also correcting her on various behaviors that I would not let myself do. A great example is when she is filling up the sink for dishes she turn the water to full blast, and she is not paying attention that it is splashing. My room mate leaves crap everywhere, and is constantly loosing his stuff as he has no idea where he put it down. As well as a weird situation regarding a friend of mine who is an extremely sloppy eater and she is commenting on how impressed she is that I can eat the same meal and not have the same mess left over? Not that I am implying it is okay to be a mess, but I realize that my expectations on myself are not realistic, and it is okay to make mistakes. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:04 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Hi all, As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I don't know much of the literature beyond what's already been stated. I do think it's true that automatic things like smiling and frowning shouldn't be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual activities like mimicking other people's movements, etc. But, I'm also optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out there who developed without major issues or problems. People and especially babies are amazingly resilient. Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about blind children. It's been well-documented that lots of blind kids and adults engage in behaviors that are "socially inappropriate" or whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us seems to be that if someone who's blind consistently does anything that's weird, obnoxious, etc. it's because they "just don't know any better" and they've been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue that what they're doing would have any negative effects on them or on anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth to them, they'd immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, or whatever the term may be. OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that this "lack of knowledge" explanation is just the tip of the iceberg and there's a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and also because of my personal experience. As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child-more than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some things that almost everyone around me thought were socially inappropriate. I won't go into a huge amount of detail but I would, for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I didn't reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that "social skills" made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded for "good" ones. And yet I kept doing the same "bad" things anyway. Why? I don't entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were "wrong" but I didn't understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness because it was always on my IEP, but I didn't know how I was supposed to act, so I couldn't improve. I also think part of it had to do with lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn't like it when I made these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, so it really didn't matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I think I knew that I wasn't directly hurting anybody-I definitely wanted to avoid doing that-and so I honestly didn't understand what the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that's almost a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I'm not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I've figured out how to get along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone else's needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who've put up with me for years and a boyfriend who's put up with me for a few months. I don't poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even managed to get elected president of this student organization. My imperfections have remained, but somehow I've figured out how to turn them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I've also discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn't work in social interactions, and I've felt the rewards of good behavior. So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn't expect all blind people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the so-called "rules" all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care less about whether or not my behavior was "appropriate", but I probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than just tell them what they're doing isn't cool. First of all, we need to stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model good behavior-everything from good hygiene to being nice to each other-as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. Butt-Wiggler probably won't stop until he decides he wants to to impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people become adults, I think it's harder for them to get motivated to make lasting change. But, it's certainly not impossible. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g mail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed Sep 23 18:20:44 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:20:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <20090923182044.27039.83446@web1.serotek.com> Arielle, Thanks for your public disclosure. Your experiences are actually quite common for blind kids. I have a few theories as to why. First of all, let me say that I was more or less int the same position. I'd try to converse with kids about whatever interested me. Sometimes I got lucky and found kids interested in the same things as me, and sometimes not. But I was also thought of as argumentative by some, outspoken by most, negative, and socially awkward. I felt like teachers literally monitored my every move with keen interest. A lot of times, I'd never know I'd done something "inappropriate" (in quotes) until the head of my IEP team mentioned it. Most of the time, these "inappropriate" actions were really no big deal and probably didn't warrant the attention they got. I think the real reason why blind kids find themselves in our situation is twofold. First of all, the blind in general are expected to be passive, and so people are totally put off when we're not. We seem over the top when, in reality, we're no different from any other kid or adult. Also, the fact that we're remarkably different doesn't help; teachers and kids are more likely to notice our behaviors. Teachers are even more notorious than kids because, after all, they're looking out for our best interests, right? Bigger than that, there's also the strong belief that blind people are socially awkward because we can't see. We can't rely on visual cues to communicate. Most people don't understand that nonverbal communication can be nonvisual. Special educators and those who work with the blind literally have it drilled into them that disabled people are socially disadvantaged and possibly even awkward, especially the blind since we're so detached from reality, we're egocentric because we can't physically see the presence of others or objects in space, and we may even feel anxiety or a lack of control because we don't know what's in our physical reality. No joke, this stuff is actually in introductory special education texts as recent as 2009. Add these factors together, and some blind kids are bound for trouble. If I could advise professionals in the field, I'd start by telling them that what they think they know about blindness is probably not true. I'd also tell them to get away from that intervension model they're so fond of. Intervension generally means that you look for places where you can intervene. And sometimes, things are best left alone or best dealt with by natural consequences. You wiggle your butt on someone's body, and you'll probably get slapped. That kind of thing. I know that growing up, teachers couldn't figure out why I was so miserable. Could it be because they were constantly on my ass about stupid things that my peers probably did too? As to the eye pressing thing, I have a friend who has a theory that eye pressing might actually be a way of relieving pain or pressure in the eyes. I'd be interested to know if this is so. As to rocking and other similar behaviors, I'm not a fan of the sensory stimulous model. I think that sighted people do weird things like that, too. The only difference is that they know what weird behaviors are acceptable and which one's aren't. Since we can't see what other ticks people have, we just make up our own. That's just my two cents. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi all, > As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness > issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. > Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I > don’t know much of the literature beyond what’s already been stated. I > do think it’s true that automatic things like smiling and frowning > shouldn’t be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions > of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been > functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I > read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual > activities like mimicking other people’s movements, etc. But, I’m also > optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out > there who developed without major issues or problems. People and > especially babies are amazingly resilient. > Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot > more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles > as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about > blind children. It’s been well-documented that lots of blind kids and > adults engage in behaviors that are “socially inappropriate” or > whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us > seems to be that if someone who’s blind consistently does anything > that’s weird, obnoxious, etc. it’s because they “just don’t know any > better” and they’ve been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue > that what they’re doing would have any negative effects on them or on > anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth > to them, they’d immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, > or whatever the term may be. > OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that > this “lack of knowledge” explanation is just the tip of the iceberg > and there’s a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of > what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and > also because of my personal experience. > As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was > sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child—more > than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some > things that almost everyone around me thought were socially > inappropriate. I won’t go into a huge amount of detail but I would, > for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation > and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I > didn’t reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of > being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my > eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as > early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I > was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I > was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like > they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that “social skills” > made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and > punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded > for “good” ones. And yet I kept doing the same “bad” things anyway. > Why? I don’t entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were “wrong” but I > didn’t understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social > mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely > painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about > what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I > was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness > because it was always on my IEP, but I didn’t know how I was supposed > to act, so I couldn’t improve. I also think part of it had to do with > lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn’t like it when I made > these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and > being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, > so it really didn’t matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I > think I knew that I wasn’t directly hurting anybody—I definitely > wanted to avoid doing that—and so I honestly didn’t understand what > the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up > against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to > do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. > Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting > reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I > still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that’s almost > a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been > described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I’m > not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand > will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I’ve figured out how to get > along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone > else’s needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who’ve put up > with me for years and a boyfriend who’s put up with me for a few > months. I don’t poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a > speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even > managed to get elected president of this student organization. My > imperfections have remained, but somehow I’ve figured out how to turn > them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I’ve also > discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn’t work > in social interactions, and I’ve felt the rewards of good behavior. > So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, > first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in > NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all > had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn’t expect all blind > people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the > so-called “rules” all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a > little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care > less about whether or not my behavior was “appropriate”, but I > probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and > person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind > folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than > just tell them what they’re doing isn’t cool. First of all, we need to > stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing > but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model > good behavior—everything from good hygiene to being nice to each > other—as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially > mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they > should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be > able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that > social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant > to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. > Butt-Wiggler probably won’t stop until he decides he wants to to > impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people > become adults, I think it’s harder for them to get motivated to make > lasting change. But, it’s certainly not impossible. > Arielle > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From dlawless86 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 19:15:17 2009 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:15:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice In-Reply-To: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <423e6e460909231215p1eaf8718hff0300865dc7403f@mail.gmail.com> Jamie, I am so sorry to hear that you are having trouble getting equal access to materials at school. I don't know of anyone off hand but maybe you could contact the blind lawyers division of the NFB and see if someone could point you in the right direction. I wish you the best of luck. Domonique On 9/23/09, Jamie Principato wrote: > I don't really want to go into agonizing detail at this moment as I am still > on campus winding down and regaining my composure after a heated battle, but > does anyone on this list know where or how I, as a blind student, can find > affordable or voluntary legal advice, or if it comes to it, a lawyer to > represent me in an issue involving equal access to course materials and > discrimination? > Thanks > > -Jamie > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 19:15:54 2009 From: alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com (alena roberts) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:15:54 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice In-Reply-To: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3af83dbb0909231215v40fb7931rf494a70d9b6e3013@mail.gmail.com> There should be a legal services office on your campus. You can always talk to them. You might also consider contacting the NFB for advice. I'm sorry you're dealing with discrimination. -- Alena Roberts Blog: http://www.blindgal.com/ From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed Sep 23 19:35:56 2009 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:35:56 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice References: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0B244879FD5B44CA84FCF19D6B325610@labarre> Jamie, please feel free to contact me off list at the infromation below. The NFB has an interest in equal access to curriculum and course materials. If we can't help you directly, we can send you in the right direction. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Principato" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:34 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice >I don't really want to go into agonizing detail at this moment as I am >still > on campus winding down and regaining my composure after a heated battle, > but > does anyone on this list know where or how I, as a blind student, can find > affordable or voluntary legal advice, or if it comes to it, a lawyer to > represent me in an issue involving equal access to course materials and > discrimination? > Thanks > > -Jamie > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com > From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 21:15:41 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:15:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> thinking about it i dont poke at my eyes but i do frequently rub them and i keep them closed when i am really tired. Also i have found myself to accidently touch people in inappropriate places when they are being quiet and probably staring...i dont know if i am alone in that. I had a similar situation about roomates. I had some of the most disgusting roomates when i lived on campus. Sink filled with nasty dishes all of the time, trashcan overflowing whether there was a bag in it or not, gum on the kitchen floors and since a couple were homosexual their friends would use permanent marker and draw inappropriate pictures on the door while writing inappropriate things as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Mandarino" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >I really enjoyed Arielle's post, and I felt that it alluded or perhaps more > so reminded me of a recent realization I had. > > I lost my sight in middle school, and since that point have encountered a > large array of social questions and appropriate behavior from countless > parents. My mother did not have to do much in regards to restricting > inappropriate behavior, but recognized that some of the mannerisms that > come > with blindness are not limited to those who have been blind their whole > life. I was asked not to rock, poke my eyes, and several other things for > the first few years, in which those tendencies seemed to not be an issue > any > more. > > My point however is that I personally find myself chasing this visual > perfection, and until recently I never stepped back to see how wrong it > is. > I constantly find myself very embarrassed if I cook something wrong, spill > a > glass of water, break a cheap whine glass, or something else that I > contribute to being blind related. However, thanks to my girlfriend I find > that I am also correcting her on various behaviors that I would not let > myself do. A great example is when she is filling up the sink for dishes > she > turn the water to full blast, and she is not paying attention that it is > splashing. My room mate leaves crap everywhere, and is constantly loosing > his stuff as he has no idea where he put it down. As well as a weird > situation regarding a friend of mine who is an extremely sloppy eater and > she is commenting on how impressed she is that I can eat the same meal and > not have the same mess left over? > > Not that I am implying it is okay to be a mess, but I realize that my > expectations on myself are not realistic, and it is okay to make mistakes. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Arielle Silverman > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:04 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > Hi all, > > As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness > issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. > Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I > don't know much of the literature beyond what's already been stated. I > do think it's true that automatic things like smiling and frowning > shouldn't be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions > of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been > functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I > read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual > activities like mimicking other people's movements, etc. But, I'm also > optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out > there who developed without major issues or problems. People and > especially babies are amazingly resilient. > > Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot > more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles > as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about > blind children. It's been well-documented that lots of blind kids and > adults engage in behaviors that are "socially inappropriate" or > whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us > seems to be that if someone who's blind consistently does anything > that's weird, obnoxious, etc. it's because they "just don't know any > better" and they've been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue > that what they're doing would have any negative effects on them or on > anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth > to them, they'd immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, > or whatever the term may be. > > OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that > this "lack of knowledge" explanation is just the tip of the iceberg > and there's a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of > what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and > also because of my personal experience. > > As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was > sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child-more > than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some > things that almost everyone around me thought were socially > inappropriate. I won't go into a huge amount of detail but I would, > for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation > and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I > didn't reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of > being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my > eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as > early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I > was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I > was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like > they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that "social skills" > made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and > punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded > for "good" ones. And yet I kept doing the same "bad" things anyway. > Why? I don't entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were "wrong" but I > didn't understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social > mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely > painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about > what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I > was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness > because it was always on my IEP, but I didn't know how I was supposed > to act, so I couldn't improve. I also think part of it had to do with > lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn't like it when I made > these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and > being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, > so it really didn't matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I > think I knew that I wasn't directly hurting anybody-I definitely > wanted to avoid doing that-and so I honestly didn't understand what > the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up > against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to > do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. > > Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting > reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I > still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that's almost > a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been > described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I'm > not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand > will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I've figured out how to get > along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone > else's needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who've put up > with me for years and a boyfriend who's put up with me for a few > months. I don't poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a > speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even > managed to get elected president of this student organization. My > imperfections have remained, but somehow I've figured out how to turn > them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I've also > discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn't work > in social interactions, and I've felt the rewards of good behavior. > > So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, > first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in > NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all > had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn't expect all blind > people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the > so-called "rules" all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a > little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care > less about whether or not my behavior was "appropriate", but I > probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and > person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind > folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than > just tell them what they're doing isn't cool. First of all, we need to > stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing > but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model > good behavior-everything from good hygiene to being nice to each > other-as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially > mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they > should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be > able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that > social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant > to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. > Butt-Wiggler probably won't stop until he decides he wants to to > impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people > become adults, I think it's harder for them to get motivated to make > lasting change. But, it's certainly not impossible. > > Arielle > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g > mail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed Sep 23 22:21:48 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:21:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish References: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CC06C280A6DACB-2640-243D9@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com><009501ca38b4$e2677460$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <007701ca3c9c$3e587630$0401a8c0@Serene> Yes, I meant American Spanish Braille. Thanks for the education about Braille in Spanish-speaking countries and Portugal. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > Serena, > > You say there are no contractions in Spanish braille. > > I don't think we know that for sure. It would be more accurate to say that > there are no contractions in American Spanish braille. > > I bet that if you go to Mexico, and Spain, and south-american countries, > they will use contractions in their braille. > > I am Brazilian, and I know with as certainty as I have about being alive > that there absolutely is a contracted portuguese braille. There is just no > reason for Americans studying portuguese to make a practice of learning it > when they learn portuguese. > > They will need contacts in Brazil or portugal to guide them through how to > write abbreviated Portuguese braille. > > I don't hold you to the fire on this one, but way too many times I heard > people say that English is the only language with abbreviated braille. > this is a real narrow view of braille in the world today. > > Antonio Guimaraes > > If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup > trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of > highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary > works in Braille. > > Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. > http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 > Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > > >> Hi Jason >> >> Your Braille teacher says the Spanish program on the Braillenote is hard >> to use--that's a bunch of BS! Once you create a file, all you do is >> press enter and the letter "l" together to switch to Spanish. Just use >> the signs you hopefully already know for the accents and the "en" sign >> for questionmark and dot 3 for apostrophe. Remember, there are no >> contractions in Spanish Braille. >> >> Serena >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Polansky" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >> >> >>> Hi my name is Jason and I am taking spanish. I use a braille note, and >>> my vision teacher is ordering me the spanish program. She says that it >>> is hard to use. I think the school system might order me a laptop. Maybe >>> if you give me the commands too, then I can use the laptop in spanish >>> class. My spanish teacher told me to avoid the accent marks until I get >>> the spanish program on my braille note. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Harry Hogue >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> >>> Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 3:55 am >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >>> >>> Hi Lindsay, >>> >>> You can change your keyboard layout to write in Spanish, at least in >>> Windows. Let me know if you're interested in knowing how to do this and >>> I can tell you how. It allows you to press the apostrophe followed by >>> the letter you want accented, and shift with some other symbols--the >>> inverted question mark, exclamation point, etc. I can give you the key >>> commands, bu the best thing to do, I've found, is once you ahve it >>> changed over, just turn JAWS or Voiceover to read characters and play >>> around with the different symbols. >>> >>> >>> I use a Focus 40 with JAWS, so I don't know if my display functions >>> different as far as table layout, but I switch mine to ESP 438 or >>> something like that. It's the only "esp" in there. You can, of course, >>> always use another table, but those are the traditional symbols for what >>> I guess is considered official Spanish Braille. Please odn't hesitate >>> to write me off list if you have any other questions or need help with >>> Spanish or whatever. It's a great language. >>> >>> Harry >>> >>> >>> --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Lindsay Yazzolino wrote: >>> >>>> From: Lindsay Yazzolino >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:51 AM >>>> Hi, >>>> I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you >>>> could tell >>>> me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols >>>> correctly. >>>> I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to >>>> be able to >>>> read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would >>>> also >>>> greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this >>>> with JAWS >>>> as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish >>>> symbols, >>>> perhaps using unicode? Thanks. >>>> >>>> Lindsay >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From kramc11 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 22:27:09 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:27:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <8A72633F24664D2989E3BB8533B17417@SonyPC> I never poke at my eyes, but I do close them/stare at nothing a lot. I was in the library the other day and a kid asked me why I was looking at a point on a blank wall over my laptop screen. Lol. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > thinking about it i dont poke at my eyes but i do frequently rub them and > i keep them closed when i am really tired. Also i have found myself to > accidently touch people in inappropriate places when they are being quiet > and probably staring...i dont know if i am alone in that. > > I had a similar situation about roomates. I had some of the most > disgusting roomates when i lived on campus. Sink filled with nasty dishes > all of the time, trashcan overflowing whether there was a bag in it or > not, gum on the kitchen floors and since a couple were homosexual their > friends would use permanent marker and draw inappropriate pictures on the > door while writing inappropriate things as well. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Mandarino" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:23 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>I really enjoyed Arielle's post, and I felt that it alluded or perhaps >>more >> so reminded me of a recent realization I had. >> >> I lost my sight in middle school, and since that point have encountered a >> large array of social questions and appropriate behavior from countless >> parents. My mother did not have to do much in regards to restricting >> inappropriate behavior, but recognized that some of the mannerisms that >> come >> with blindness are not limited to those who have been blind their whole >> life. I was asked not to rock, poke my eyes, and several other things for >> the first few years, in which those tendencies seemed to not be an issue >> any >> more. >> >> My point however is that I personally find myself chasing this visual >> perfection, and until recently I never stepped back to see how wrong it >> is. >> I constantly find myself very embarrassed if I cook something wrong, >> spill a >> glass of water, break a cheap whine glass, or something else that I >> contribute to being blind related. However, thanks to my girlfriend I >> find >> that I am also correcting her on various behaviors that I would not let >> myself do. A great example is when she is filling up the sink for dishes >> she >> turn the water to full blast, and she is not paying attention that it is >> splashing. My room mate leaves crap everywhere, and is constantly loosing >> his stuff as he has no idea where he put it down. As well as a weird >> situation regarding a friend of mine who is an extremely sloppy eater and >> she is commenting on how impressed she is that I can eat the same meal >> and >> not have the same mess left over? >> >> Not that I am implying it is okay to be a mess, but I realize that my >> expectations on myself are not realistic, and it is okay to make >> mistakes. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:04 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> Hi all, >> >> As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness >> issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. >> Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I >> don't know much of the literature beyond what's already been stated. I >> do think it's true that automatic things like smiling and frowning >> shouldn't be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions >> of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been >> functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I >> read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual >> activities like mimicking other people's movements, etc. But, I'm also >> optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out >> there who developed without major issues or problems. People and >> especially babies are amazingly resilient. >> >> Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot >> more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles >> as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about >> blind children. It's been well-documented that lots of blind kids and >> adults engage in behaviors that are "socially inappropriate" or >> whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us >> seems to be that if someone who's blind consistently does anything >> that's weird, obnoxious, etc. it's because they "just don't know any >> better" and they've been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue >> that what they're doing would have any negative effects on them or on >> anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth >> to them, they'd immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, >> or whatever the term may be. >> >> OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that >> this "lack of knowledge" explanation is just the tip of the iceberg >> and there's a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of >> what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and >> also because of my personal experience. >> >> As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was >> sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child-more >> than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some >> things that almost everyone around me thought were socially >> inappropriate. I won't go into a huge amount of detail but I would, >> for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation >> and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I >> didn't reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of >> being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my >> eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as >> early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I >> was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I >> was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like >> they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that "social skills" >> made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and >> punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded >> for "good" ones. And yet I kept doing the same "bad" things anyway. >> Why? I don't entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were "wrong" but I >> didn't understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social >> mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely >> painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about >> what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I >> was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness >> because it was always on my IEP, but I didn't know how I was supposed >> to act, so I couldn't improve. I also think part of it had to do with >> lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn't like it when I made >> these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and >> being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, >> so it really didn't matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I >> think I knew that I wasn't directly hurting anybody-I definitely >> wanted to avoid doing that-and so I honestly didn't understand what >> the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up >> against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to >> do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. >> >> Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting >> reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I >> still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that's almost >> a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been >> described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I'm >> not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand >> will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I've figured out how to get >> along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone >> else's needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who've put up >> with me for years and a boyfriend who's put up with me for a few >> months. I don't poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a >> speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even >> managed to get elected president of this student organization. My >> imperfections have remained, but somehow I've figured out how to turn >> them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I've also >> discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn't work >> in social interactions, and I've felt the rewards of good behavior. >> >> So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, >> first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in >> NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all >> had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn't expect all blind >> people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the >> so-called "rules" all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a >> little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care >> less about whether or not my behavior was "appropriate", but I >> probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and >> person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind >> folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than >> just tell them what they're doing isn't cool. First of all, we need to >> stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing >> but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model >> good behavior-everything from good hygiene to being nice to each >> other-as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially >> mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they >> should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be >> able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that >> social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant >> to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. >> Butt-Wiggler probably won't stop until he decides he wants to to >> impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people >> become adults, I think it's harder for them to get motivated to make >> lasting change. But, it's certainly not impossible. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 22:53:45 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 17:53:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com><94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643><6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> Message-ID: <0ABE93CA7530478A9869D3651B84506A@teal6e6857f643> This kid had no other disabilities. He attends kentucky christian college and is a minestry major. Like i said he was blind from birth, phillipino and adopted to a family in illinois. He had never really had many friends and had a girlfriend but never affection between the two and she was sighted. He was nice as can be but alittle awkward by his comments and actions. Also he had a guide dog from Leader dog but always used a cane when traveling with this dog that never listened to him. I am sure he has a story and he was exceptionally nice just alittle weird. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > What you are not taking into consideration is does this kid you are > referring to have multiple disabilities? Does he have some sort of > cognitive challenge on top of his blindness? You can't necessarily know if > he does or not if he is high functioning. > > Another factor is what happened to this kid when he was little. What > influenced his behavior? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:56 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad >> if they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is >> basically a waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my >> mind....is it harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to >> lose? Things like this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or >> not they are going to have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had >> never really been around people without knowing how to act. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> >> >>>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I >>>have a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and >>>when people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to >>>explain the miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> >>> >>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>> >>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw >>>> and was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my >>>> hero and gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>>> >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jedi" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Teal, >>>>> >>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had >>>>> sight at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant >>>>> personality differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, >>>>> and life experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>> unless they let it. >>>>> >>>>> Respectfully, >>>>> Jedi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>> >>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>> alittle >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why >>>>>> and i say >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>> and in >>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>> florescent >>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am >>>>>> in a >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>> birth? I >>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>> people >>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>> life. >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but >>>>>> never >>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>> so? >>>>> >>>>>> -Teal >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>> facial >>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware >>>>>>> else on >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>>> am >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>> >>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the >>>>>>> time >>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>> situations. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>> ability to >>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>> people say >>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind >>>>>>>> person >>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>> topic is >>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>> off or >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>> >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>>> >>>>>>>> -Teal >>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never >>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that >>>>>>>>> it's even >>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working >>>>>>>>> for a >>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>> took the >>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to >>>>>>>>> kill >>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>> was. I >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who >>>>>>>>> had >>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>>> question. >>>>> >>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>> expressions. For >>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>> thought the >>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments >>>>>>>>> been done >>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of >>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>>> >>>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>> B >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From freespirit328 at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 23:07:32 2009 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:07:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: I usually keep my eyes shut all the time because they are very dry and it's very uncomfortable to keep them open. Some people made comments about it to me and said that I should always keep my eyes open. So I bought a pair of dark glasses, and now they don't know if my eyes are open or not. Problem solved. Jen www.youravon.com/jaberdeen Jennifer Aberdeen PO Box 1184 Woonsocket, RI 02895 401-415-5815 401-644-5607 freespirit328 at gmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > thinking about it i dont poke at my eyes but i do frequently rub them and > i keep them closed when i am really tired. Also i have found myself to > accidently touch people in inappropriate places when they are being quiet > and probably staring...i dont know if i am alone in that. > > I had a similar situation about roomates. I had some of the most > disgusting roomates when i lived on campus. Sink filled with nasty dishes > all of the time, trashcan overflowing whether there was a bag in it or > not, gum on the kitchen floors and since a couple were homosexual their > friends would use permanent marker and draw inappropriate pictures on the > door while writing inappropriate things as well. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Mandarino" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:23 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>I really enjoyed Arielle's post, and I felt that it alluded or perhaps >>more >> so reminded me of a recent realization I had. >> >> I lost my sight in middle school, and since that point have encountered a >> large array of social questions and appropriate behavior from countless >> parents. My mother did not have to do much in regards to restricting >> inappropriate behavior, but recognized that some of the mannerisms that >> come >> with blindness are not limited to those who have been blind their whole >> life. I was asked not to rock, poke my eyes, and several other things for >> the first few years, in which those tendencies seemed to not be an issue >> any >> more. >> >> My point however is that I personally find myself chasing this visual >> perfection, and until recently I never stepped back to see how wrong it >> is. >> I constantly find myself very embarrassed if I cook something wrong, >> spill a >> glass of water, break a cheap whine glass, or something else that I >> contribute to being blind related. However, thanks to my girlfriend I >> find >> that I am also correcting her on various behaviors that I would not let >> myself do. A great example is when she is filling up the sink for dishes >> she >> turn the water to full blast, and she is not paying attention that it is >> splashing. My room mate leaves crap everywhere, and is constantly loosing >> his stuff as he has no idea where he put it down. As well as a weird >> situation regarding a friend of mine who is an extremely sloppy eater and >> she is commenting on how impressed she is that I can eat the same meal >> and >> not have the same mess left over? >> >> Not that I am implying it is okay to be a mess, but I realize that my >> expectations on myself are not realistic, and it is okay to make >> mistakes. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Arielle Silverman >> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:04 AM >> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> Hi all, >> >> As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness >> issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. >> Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I >> don't know much of the literature beyond what's already been stated. I >> do think it's true that automatic things like smiling and frowning >> shouldn't be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions >> of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been >> functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I >> read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual >> activities like mimicking other people's movements, etc. But, I'm also >> optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out >> there who developed without major issues or problems. People and >> especially babies are amazingly resilient. >> >> Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot >> more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles >> as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about >> blind children. It's been well-documented that lots of blind kids and >> adults engage in behaviors that are "socially inappropriate" or >> whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us >> seems to be that if someone who's blind consistently does anything >> that's weird, obnoxious, etc. it's because they "just don't know any >> better" and they've been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue >> that what they're doing would have any negative effects on them or on >> anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth >> to them, they'd immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, >> or whatever the term may be. >> >> OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that >> this "lack of knowledge" explanation is just the tip of the iceberg >> and there's a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of >> what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and >> also because of my personal experience. >> >> As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was >> sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child-more >> than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some >> things that almost everyone around me thought were socially >> inappropriate. I won't go into a huge amount of detail but I would, >> for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation >> and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I >> didn't reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of >> being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my >> eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as >> early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I >> was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I >> was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like >> they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that "social skills" >> made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and >> punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded >> for "good" ones. And yet I kept doing the same "bad" things anyway. >> Why? I don't entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were "wrong" but I >> didn't understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social >> mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely >> painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about >> what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I >> was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness >> because it was always on my IEP, but I didn't know how I was supposed >> to act, so I couldn't improve. I also think part of it had to do with >> lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn't like it when I made >> these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and >> being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, >> so it really didn't matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I >> think I knew that I wasn't directly hurting anybody-I definitely >> wanted to avoid doing that-and so I honestly didn't understand what >> the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up >> against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to >> do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. >> >> Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting >> reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I >> still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that's almost >> a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been >> described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I'm >> not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand >> will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I've figured out how to get >> along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone >> else's needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who've put up >> with me for years and a boyfriend who's put up with me for a few >> months. I don't poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a >> speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even >> managed to get elected president of this student organization. My >> imperfections have remained, but somehow I've figured out how to turn >> them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I've also >> discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn't work >> in social interactions, and I've felt the rewards of good behavior. >> >> So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, >> first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in >> NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all >> had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn't expect all blind >> people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the >> so-called "rules" all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a >> little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care >> less about whether or not my behavior was "appropriate", but I >> probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and >> person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind >> folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than >> just tell them what they're doing isn't cool. First of all, we need to >> stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing >> but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model >> good behavior-everything from good hygiene to being nice to each >> other-as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially >> mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they >> should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be >> able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that >> social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant >> to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. >> Butt-Wiggler probably won't stop until he decides he wants to to >> impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people >> become adults, I think it's harder for them to get motivated to make >> lasting change. But, it's certainly not impossible. >> >> Arielle >> >> >> -- >> Arielle Silverman >> President, National Association of Blind Students >> Phone: 602-502-2255 >> Email: >> nabs.president at gmail.com >> Website: >> www.nabslink.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >> mail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 00:53:18 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:53:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com><12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <16CF7BE927B146D2A42867FD3C859467@teal6e6857f643> yeah my eyes get dry and itchy too especially in the summer so i bought clear eyes which actually does help ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >I usually keep my eyes shut all the time because they are very dry and it's >very uncomfortable to keep them open. Some people made comments about it to >me and said that I should always keep my eyes open. So I bought a pair of >dark glasses, and now they don't know if my eyes are open or not. Problem >solved. > > Jen > > www.youravon.com/jaberdeen > > Jennifer Aberdeen > PO Box 1184 > Woonsocket, RI 02895 > 401-415-5815 > 401-644-5607 > freespirit328 at gmail.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> thinking about it i dont poke at my eyes but i do frequently rub them and >> i keep them closed when i am really tired. Also i have found myself to >> accidently touch people in inappropriate places when they are being quiet >> and probably staring...i dont know if i am alone in that. >> >> I had a similar situation about roomates. I had some of the most >> disgusting roomates when i lived on campus. Sink filled with nasty dishes >> all of the time, trashcan overflowing whether there was a bag in it or >> not, gum on the kitchen floors and since a couple were homosexual their >> friends would use permanent marker and draw inappropriate pictures on the >> door while writing inappropriate things as well. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jason Mandarino" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:23 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> >>>I really enjoyed Arielle's post, and I felt that it alluded or perhaps >>>more >>> so reminded me of a recent realization I had. >>> >>> I lost my sight in middle school, and since that point have encountered >>> a >>> large array of social questions and appropriate behavior from countless >>> parents. My mother did not have to do much in regards to restricting >>> inappropriate behavior, but recognized that some of the mannerisms that >>> come >>> with blindness are not limited to those who have been blind their whole >>> life. I was asked not to rock, poke my eyes, and several other things >>> for >>> the first few years, in which those tendencies seemed to not be an issue >>> any >>> more. >>> >>> My point however is that I personally find myself chasing this visual >>> perfection, and until recently I never stepped back to see how wrong it >>> is. >>> I constantly find myself very embarrassed if I cook something wrong, >>> spill a >>> glass of water, break a cheap whine glass, or something else that I >>> contribute to being blind related. However, thanks to my girlfriend I >>> find >>> that I am also correcting her on various behaviors that I would not let >>> myself do. A great example is when she is filling up the sink for dishes >>> she >>> turn the water to full blast, and she is not paying attention that it is >>> splashing. My room mate leaves crap everywhere, and is constantly >>> loosing >>> his stuff as he has no idea where he put it down. As well as a weird >>> situation regarding a friend of mine who is an extremely sloppy eater >>> and >>> she is commenting on how impressed she is that I can eat the same meal >>> and >>> not have the same mess left over? >>> >>> Not that I am implying it is okay to be a mess, but I realize that my >>> expectations on myself are not realistic, and it is okay to make >>> mistakes. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Arielle Silverman >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:04 AM >>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As both a psychology student and someone interested in blindness >>> issues I think this is a very interesting and important topic. >>> Regarding the first issue, that of learning facial expressions, I >>> don't know much of the literature beyond what's already been stated. I >>> do think it's true that automatic things like smiling and frowning >>> shouldn't be affected by blindness, while more controlled expressions >>> of feelings would be. I will admit that as someone who has been >>> functionally totally blind since birth I get a little depressed when I >>> read about all the theories of development that emphasize visual >>> activities like mimicking other people's movements, etc. But, I'm also >>> optimistic because I know there are plenty of totally blind people out >>> there who developed without major issues or problems. People and >>> especially babies are amazingly resilient. >>> >>> Regarding the issue of social skills and awkwardness I have a lot >>> more to say. This issue inevitably comes up often among NFB circles >>> as well as in the psychology and education literature especially about >>> blind children. It's been well-documented that lots of blind kids and >>> adults engage in behaviors that are "socially inappropriate" or >>> whatever you want to call them. The common opinion among many of us >>> seems to be that if someone who's blind consistently does anything >>> that's weird, obnoxious, etc. it's because they "just don't know any >>> better" and they've been so sheltered that they honestly have no clue >>> that what they're doing would have any negative effects on them or on >>> anyone else. If only someone would sit them down and explain the truth >>> to them, they'd immediately wise up and start acting more appropriate, >>> or whatever the term may be. >>> >>> OK, I may be exaggerating a little here, but I am quite convinced that >>> this "lack of knowledge" explanation is just the tip of the iceberg >>> and there's a lot more going on. I have this conviction because of >>> what I know about psychology and about human beings in general, and >>> also because of my personal experience. >>> >>> As I mentioned I have been blind all my life. I will say I was >>> sheltered, but probably about as much as the average blind child-more >>> than some, less than others. I recall that when I was a kid I did some >>> things that almost everyone around me thought were socially >>> inappropriate. I won't go into a huge amount of detail but I would, >>> for instance, get really fixated on a certain topic of conversation >>> and want to talk about it to the exclusion of more popular topics. I >>> didn't reach out much to other kids or adults, I was often accused of >>> being bossy and argumentative, and I was frequently caught poking my >>> eyes. I have memories of being reprimanded for these activities as >>> early as kindergarten and as late as the sixth or seventh grade. And I >>> was definitely made aware repeatedly by multiple adults that what I >>> was doing was inappropriate, although to me at the time it seemed like >>> they were calling my behavior criminal. I know that "social skills" >>> made up the bulk of my IEP for most of those years. I was scolded and >>> punished for this wide array of bad deeds and occasionally rewarded >>> for "good" ones. And yet I kept doing the same "bad" things anyway. >>> Why? I don't entirely know. Perhaps I knew they were "wrong" but I >>> didn't understand why; yet I still knew if I made those social >>> mistakes I would get in trouble and getting in trouble was definitely >>> painful. I think part of it is that I was really deeply confused about >>> what the adult world expected from me. I was repeatedly told that I >>> was socially deficient and it was somehow related to my blindness >>> because it was always on my IEP, but I didn't know how I was supposed >>> to act, so I couldn't improve. I also think part of it had to do with >>> lack of motivation. I knew that adults didn't like it when I made >>> these social errors but most of them (fixating on my own interests and >>> being argumentative, for instance) came from me being self-centered, >>> so it really didn't matter to me that it was socially inappropriate. I >>> think I knew that I wasn't directly hurting anybody-I definitely >>> wanted to avoid doing that-and so I honestly didn't understand what >>> the big deal was. No, I never had the desire to wiggle my butt up >>> against someone, but honestly if I had a compelling enough reason to >>> do it, I probably would have kept it up despite admonitions. >>> >>> Around the end of middle school I noticed that I stopped getting >>> reprimanded for being socially deficient. And, what happened? Today I >>> still like to talk about things I find interesting, but that's almost >>> a survival skill for anyone in a Ph.D. program. I have definitely been >>> described by a few people as bossy and argumentative, and I know I'm >>> not always the most empathetic person. When I am very tired my hand >>> will occasionally wander into my eye. But, I've figured out how to get >>> along decently with most people most of the time, and when someone >>> else's needs supersede my own. I have a few good friends who've put up >>> with me for years and a boyfriend who's put up with me for a few >>> months. I don't poke my eyes when I am going out with him or giving a >>> speech. (If I ever do, you have the right to yell at me!) Heck, I even >>> managed to get elected president of this student organization. My >>> imperfections have remained, but somehow I've figured out how to turn >>> them into assets rather than letting them get in my way. I've also >>> discovered, through life experience, what works and what doesn't work >>> in social interactions, and I've felt the rewards of good behavior. >>> >>> So why am I making this deep self-disclosure to all of you? I guess, >>> first of all, to make the point that we have all kinds in the NFB, in >>> NABS and among the leadership here. We all have flaws and we have all >>> had struggles of some kind in our lives. We shouldn't expect all blind >>> people or all NFB members to act exactly the same or to follow all the >>> so-called "rules" all the time. I think a lot of my issues had only a >>> little bit to do with blindness. Blindness might have made me care >>> less about whether or not my behavior was "appropriate", but I >>> probably would have been a pretty nerdy and opinionated child and >>> person had I been sighted. In our efforts to persuade other blind >>> folks to behave with social grace, I think we need to do more than >>> just tell them what they're doing isn't cool. First of all, we need to >>> stop making fun of and talking about them because that does nothing >>> but breed resentment and hostility. Second, I think we must role-model >>> good behavior-everything from good hygiene to being nice to each >>> other-as much as we can. Then, people we mentor (or will potentially >>> mentor later) will see what they can strive toward, not just what they >>> should strive away from. And finally, although I know we might not be >>> able to make this happen for our blind friends, I honestly think that >>> social norms and customs have to be personally meaningful and relevant >>> to people before they will consistently follow them. So Mr. >>> Butt-Wiggler probably won't stop until he decides he wants to to >>> impress a girl or to land a job. The tragedy is that once people >>> become adults, I think it's harder for them to get motivated to make >>> lasting change. But, it's certainly not impossible. >>> >>> Arielle >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Arielle Silverman >>> President, National Association of Blind Students >>> Phone: 602-502-2255 >>> Email: >>> nabs.president at gmail.com >>> Website: >>> www.nabslink.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blind.subscriber%40g >>> mail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 03:28:42 2009 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:28:42 +1000 Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice In-Reply-To: <0B244879FD5B44CA84FCF19D6B325610@labarre> References: <63af025c0909230934s26678288uf51c8d10dca9d1cc@mail.gmail.com> <0B244879FD5B44CA84FCF19D6B325610@labarre> Message-ID: <85ff10070909232028m567f7cd2u8dacbaf2e643f957@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jamie, I don't know if you've tried nonlegal means such as talking with someone a step above the offender, but that would be a good first step. In most cases complaints can be lodged with the dean of students or the chair of the department where you are having the problems. Litigation can be powerful and effective, but it is also expensive and time-consuming. Some issues can be resolved easily if you can get just one person with authority on your side. If you have tried going as far up the chain of command at your university as you can without positive changes, you could try talking to Scott LaBarre. He is in Colorado but I know he's helped blind students out in other states. His phone is 303-504-5979 Best of luck and feel free to share the details if you feel that we can be of assistance. Arielle On 9/24/09, Scott C. LaBarre wrote: > Jamie, please feel free to contact me off list at the infromation below. > The NFB has an interest in equal access to curriculum and course materials. > If we can't help you directly, we can send you in the right direction. > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jamie Principato" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:34 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Legal advice > > >>I don't really want to go into agonizing detail at this moment as I am >>still >> on campus winding down and regaining my composure after a heated battle, >> but >> does anyone on this list know where or how I, as a blind student, can find >> affordable or voluntary legal advice, or if it comes to it, a lawyer to >> represent me in an issue involving equal access to course materials and >> discrimination? >> Thanks >> >> -Jamie >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 03:40:57 2009 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:40:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish In-Reply-To: <007701ca3c9c$3e587630$0401a8c0@Serene> References: <353485.19964.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CC06C280A6DACB-2640-243D9@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com> <009501ca38b4$e2677460$0401a8c0@Serene> <007701ca3c9c$3e587630$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: Hello All. As far as the braillenote goes, once you get your language pack, you will get unicode for accented spanish characters. The wonderful thing about the language pack is that it has a great manual. However, if you are on a qt, you can access your accented character by pressing function with x, then, once you have found it, you can assign a short cut to it, by pressing function with a I think. You can press help at that point and it'll give you the exact command. I speak several languages, and the braillenote is a great way of writing a language in braille. It at least gets you familiarized with the basic braille code of that language for future reference. Good luck, and Spanish is easy!! And yes, there are contractions in every language, we just don't know them. And a lot of latin american countries at least, do not teach every blind child braille. Most of them are illiterate, but that's a discussion for another day. Yours, Mary On 9/23/09, Serena wrote: > Yes, I meant American Spanish Braille. Thanks for the education about > Braille in Spanish-speaking countries and Portugal. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 12:29 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish > > >> Serena, >> >> You say there are no contractions in Spanish braille. >> >> I don't think we know that for sure. It would be more accurate to say that >> >> there are no contractions in American Spanish braille. >> >> I bet that if you go to Mexico, and Spain, and south-american countries, >> they will use contractions in their braille. >> >> I am Brazilian, and I know with as certainty as I have about being alive >> that there absolutely is a contracted portuguese braille. There is just no >> >> reason for Americans studying portuguese to make a practice of learning it >> >> when they learn portuguese. >> >> They will need contacts in Brazil or portugal to guide them through how to >> >> write abbreviated Portuguese braille. >> >> I don't hold you to the fire on this one, but way too many times I heard >> people say that English is the only language with abbreviated braille. >> this is a real narrow view of braille in the world today. >> >> Antonio Guimaraes >> >> If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup >> trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of >> highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary >> >> works in Braille. >> >> Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you. >> http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169 >> Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Serena" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 7:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >> >> >>> Hi Jason >>> >>> Your Braille teacher says the Spanish program on the Braillenote is hard >>> to use--that's a bunch of BS! Once you create a file, all you do is >>> press enter and the letter "l" together to switch to Spanish. Just use >>> the signs you hopefully already know for the accents and the "en" sign >>> for questionmark and dot 3 for apostrophe. Remember, there are no >>> contractions in Spanish Braille. >>> >>> Serena >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Polansky" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >>> >>> >>>> Hi my name is Jason and I am taking spanish. I use a braille note, and >>>> my vision teacher is ordering me the spanish program. She says that it >>>> is hard to use. I think the school system might order me a laptop. Maybe >>>> >>>> if you give me the commands too, then I can use the laptop in spanish >>>> class. My spanish teacher told me to avoid the accent marks until I get >>>> the spanish program on my braille note. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Harry Hogue >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> >>>> Sent: Thu, Sep 17, 2009 3:55 am >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >>>> >>>> Hi Lindsay, >>>> >>>> You can change your keyboard layout to write in Spanish, at least in >>>> Windows. Let me know if you're interested in knowing how to do this and >>>> >>>> I can tell you how. It allows you to press the apostrophe followed by >>>> the letter you want accented, and shift with some other symbols--the >>>> inverted question mark, exclamation point, etc. I can give you the key >>>> commands, bu the best thing to do, I've found, is once you ahve it >>>> changed over, just turn JAWS or Voiceover to read characters and play >>>> around with the different symbols. >>>> >>>> >>>> I use a Focus 40 with JAWS, so I don't know if my display functions >>>> different as far as table layout, but I switch mine to ESP 438 or >>>> something like that. It's the only "esp" in there. You can, of course, >>>> >>>> always use another table, but those are the traditional symbols for what >>>> >>>> I guess is considered official Spanish Braille. Please odn't hesitate >>>> to write me off list if you have any other questions or need help with >>>> Spanish or whatever. It's a great language. >>>> >>>> Harry >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Thu, 9/17/09, Lindsay Yazzolino wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Lindsay Yazzolino >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Reading and writing Spanish >>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> Date: Thursday, September 17, 2009, 12:51 AM >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I am taking a Spanish course and am wondering if any of you >>>>> could tell >>>>> me how I can set my Braille display to show Spanish symbols >>>>> correctly. >>>>> I am using a BrailleConnect with a Mac, and would love to >>>>> be able to >>>>> read Spanish accented characters with VoiceOver, but would >>>>> also >>>>> greatly appreciate if someone could show me how to do this >>>>> with JAWS >>>>> as well. Also, is there a way to quickly input Spanish >>>>> symbols, >>>>> perhaps using unicode? Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Lindsay >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>>>> account info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu Sep 24 04:41:53 2009 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:41:53 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Washington Post article on silent cars Message-ID: The following article on the danger posed by silent cars appeared today on the front page of the Washington Post. Washington Post The Deadly Silence of the Electric Car Automakers Propose Vroom-Vroom Substitutes to Alert Pedestrians Byline: Peter Whoriskey Publication Date: 09/23/2009 Link to Article After years of trying to make cars sound as if they were riding on air, engineers are considering how they might bring back some noise. They're trying to make some of them -- those silent hybrids -- more audible. But how? A team of engineers developing the Leaf, the forthcoming electric car from Nissan and a front-runner in the race for a mass-market electric car, have recently been presenting their ideas for artificial noises to government officials and focus groups. Maybe Chime Number 22? Melody Number 39? Perhaps a futuristic whirring like the aircraft in 'Blade Runner'? As hybrids proliferate and major automakers such as Nissan and General Motors prepare to launch battery electric vehicles next year, some automakers are seeking to address concerns in the United States and Japan that the nearly noiseless vehicles may be so quiet that they pose a threat to pedestrians. At a meeting earlier this month and another over the summer, Nissan presented the chime, the melody and a futuristic whir to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which has recently gathered evidence that the vehicles may pose a safety risk. Regulatory committees in the United States and Japan are also studying complaints about the cars, and Congress is weighing a measure requiring vehicles to issue 'non-visual' warnings to pedestrians. 'We are studying potential artificial noises that can be added to the vehicle,' said Scott Becker, a Nissan senior vice president. But the nascent industry is divided over whether safety sounds should be added to the quiet cars and, if so, what those noises should be. 'Frankly, we've been working for 30 years to make cars quiet -- never thinking they could become too quiet,' said Robert Strassburger, vice president for vehicle safety at the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, an industry group that has been working to address the concerns. But now 'those vehicles may be difficult to detect.' Hybrid vehicles typically operate on hushed battery-powered electric motors when idling and traveling at low speeds. At higher speeds, the noisier internal-combustion engine kicks in. Toyota, which makes the popular hybrid Prius, a small car that runs very quietly at low speeds, does not add artificial sounds. Cars like Tesla's Roadster, Nissan's Leaf and General Motors' Volt, which will depend on battery electric power, may be even quieter. Officials at Tesla say they have no intention of implementing 'fake noises.' The company already makes the $109,000 electric Roadster, a luxury product popular with eco-conscious celebrity customers. 'We have delivered more than 700 cars, and our customers overwhelmingly say the relative quiet of the powertrain is one of the most appealing aspects of the car,' said Tesla spokeswoman Rachel Konrad. 'Thanks to widespread electric vehicle adoption, we will all enjoy far less noise pollution in the future.' Evidence that the hybrid sales spurt poses a safety threat has been scant, in part because the phenomenon is new and the hybrid cars represent only a small fraction of the more than 230 million vehicles on the road, transportation officials said. But an as-yet-unreleased NHTSA study of accidents in 12 states compares accident rates for some hybrid vehicles and their internal combustion engine counterparts. Covering more than 8,000 hybrid electric vehicles and nearly 600,000 gasoline-fueled cars, the analysis suggests that during certain low-speed maneuvers such as turning and backing up, hybrid vehicles are 50 percent more likely to be involved in an accident with a pedestrian, said Ronald Medford, acting deputy administrator of NHTSA. 'We certainly know that blind pedestrians rely heavily on the sound of vehicles as a means of determining when it is safe to cross the road,' Medford said. 'But all of us are susceptible.' The potential problem arises at speeds less than 15 mph, when the electric and hybrid vehicles are notably quiet, almost silent. At higher speeds, the rush of air and the slap of tires makes the electrics almost as noisy as their gasoline-powered counterparts. Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) has introduced a bill that would require the Department of Transportation to establish a safety standard under which cars would have to be equipped to issue 'non-visual alerts' so that pedestrians can determine the vehicle's location, motion and speed. It has garnered 139 sponsors, among them Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.), who says he has been startled by a quiet car. 'I was down in Florida in the parking lot of a shopping center, and I was wheeling my groceries with my wife, and I didn't hear a car come up behind me,' Stearns told reporters. 'If all the cars are silent in the future, it does pose a problem.' But if electric cars are to be equipped with sound, there is little agreement over what the sound should be, how loud it ought to be and whether manufacturers should be allowed to create their own distinctive audio tracks. Some automakers are already experimenting with or planning to develop noises. The Fisker Karma, a luxury electric vehicle, will have an integrated audio system that will both alert pedestrians and give the car a 'distinctive audio signature' that will be 'reflective of the car's advanced technology,' a spokesman said. Officials with the National Federation of the Blind, which has pressed the safety issue with automakers and regulators, have advocated that electric cars make sounds similar to those of gas-powered cars. 'Society is conditioned to that sound,' said John Pare, director of strategic initiatives for the group. There is some concern that if a variety of noises are permitted, then electric cars could merely add another layer to the urban cacophony, potentially conflicting with state and local laws governing decibel levels. 'If we all do it differently, we will confuse the heck out of the consumer,'' said Nancy Gioia, director of hybrid and sustainable technology at Ford. Nissan declined to release the audio tracks being considered but said it would make its final decision in consultation with regulators. It is also seeking approval from drivers, some of whom have been fussy about the various sounds tested. 'They are too flat and irritating in hearing for more than even five minutes,' one respondent in a Nissan test said. 'Monotonous sound makes me sleepy,' said another. Said Pare: 'We are certain that there is a safe level of sound that isn't burdensome to society.' From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 24 05:53:34 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:53:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <409c235c0909222235i5214fd2ft93d9ef83d2808a2a@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20090921205032.2758.40796@web3.serotek.com> <94579968117E4513BDB432B4E91A4C1F@teal6e6857f643> <6D910E2E3ACD4F1CA8C5F7DDFE557F51@SonyPC> <409c235c0909222235i5214fd2ft93d9ef83d2808a2a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Why do people think it is okay to touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted adults. I have thought about this a lot and have concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as we are semi-helpless and need assistance. Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully functional, rights-holding adults. Dave At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: >a couple of things that were interesting were the concept of space. >I find so much that people will grap you and push you to redirect >you; something you would clearly not do to a sighted individual. I >wonder what logical reason people have cross their minds to make it >ok. to do something like that. > > As for people identifying themselves; some people do a rather good >job of saying where I've met them ( that is those who don't screw >up my name lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I would actually >hold a conversation with someone for a couple of minutes and within >this conversation I could figure out what project they had, what >team they were on, and by doing so I was able to successfully id the >person. So the only way I think this relates back, is sometimes >you just have to kind of make a person talk a bit and you'll >probably find out who it is if you have time to. > >On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez wrote: > > Hello All. > > I have not been following this thread faithfully, however, I just > > schemed through and found some very interesting questions that are > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a psychology major at Emory > > University, where research is our middle name! Thus, some of this > > facial expression experiments have been conducted here. but I will > > just talk about a very classic experiment by Paul Ekman. > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures from all around the > > world. He took clips of those videos and classified the facial > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the face were used to make > > those expressions. As he watched more and more clipse he determined a > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across cultures who had never met > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to the outside world, > > and who had radically different customs and traditions. > > He then took pictures of different faces and asked others what emotion > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He discovered that for > > the most part most people could tell what the picture was showing. > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which are: > > Anger > > Disgust > > Fear > > Happiness > > Sadness > > Surprise > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, contempt, pride, > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, satisfaction, sensory > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All this is to say, that > > facial expression are not cultural or learned behavior, but rather > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face reflect at the very > > least these emotions that I listed. The only difference is that we are > > not readily conscious of how we make these face of guilt for example. > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and practice looking ashamed, it > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain lowering of the brows, we > > have to think about it and consciously make an effort if we want to > > become proficient at making these expressions at will. I am a > > performer as well, and one of the big things I work on is facial > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the audience what I'm > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And it is a valid skill > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a little bit that anger we > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a little long. > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are pissed off, it will > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not show any facial > > expression or significantly lack body language, this is not do to > > being blind and not having learned expressions, it is rather a > > personality thing, and it probably just means that you are much more > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than most people. > > Mary > > > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things > >> like > >> this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going to > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around > >> people without knowing how to act. > >> > >> -Teal > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > >> > >> > >>>I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > >>> > >>> > >>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents > >>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. > >>>> > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the future. > >>>> > >>>> -Teal > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Jedi" > >>>> To: > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Teal, > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice > >>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality > >>>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life > >>>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it > >>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, > >>>>> unless they let it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Respectfully, > >>>>> Jedi > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Original message: > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to > >>>>>> believe....maybe > >>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? > >>>>> > >>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > >>>>>> alittle > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and > >>>>>> i say > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a > >>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time > >>>>>> and in > >>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous > >>>>>> florescent > >>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in > >>>>>> a > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since > >>>>>> birth? I > >>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in > >>>>>> people > >>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of > >>>>>> life. > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never > >>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do > >>>>>> so? > >>>>> > >>>>>> -Teal > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my > >>>>>>> facial > >>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else > >>>>>>> on > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't > >>>>>>> make/keep > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I > >>>>>>> am > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. > >>>>> > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > >>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword > >>>>>>> situations. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI > >>>>>>>> isnt > >>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and > >>>>>>>> ability > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception > >>>>>>>> people > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> say > >>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person > >>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing > >>>>>>>> comes > >>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We > >>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct > >>>>>>>> developmental > >>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through > >>>>>>>> environment > >>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative > >>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>> in our biological being. > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this > >>>>>>>> topic > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed > >>>>>>>> off > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions > >>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these > >>>>>>>> feelings, > >>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > >>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> -Teal > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" > >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Teal, > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > >>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at > >>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's > >>>>>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and > >>>>>>>>> never > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > >>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. > >>>>>>>>> I've > >>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated > >>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that > >>>>>>>>> actually > >>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We > >>>>>>>>> had a > >>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for > >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > >>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and > >>>>>>>>> took > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said > >>>>>>>>> was, > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > >>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I > >>>>>>>>> was. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet > >>>>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>>> problems. > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I > >>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > >>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all > >>>>>>>>> said I > >>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister > >>>>>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my > >>>>>>>>> face > >>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my > >>>>>>>>> question. > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these > >>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and > >>>>>>>>> learning > >>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't > >>>>>>>>> work > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive > >>>>>>>>> expressions. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> For > >>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I > >>>>>>>>> thought > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with > >>>>>>>>> certain > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able > >>>>>>>>> to, > >>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been > >>>>>>>>> done > >>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically > >>>>>>>>> taught > >>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas > >>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of > >>>>>>>>> lack of > >>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? > >>>>>>>>> - -- > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > >>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > >>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > >>>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > >>>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > >>>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > >>>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > >>>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>>>> B > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Mary Fernandez > > Emory University 2012 > > P.O. Box 123056 > > Atlanta Ga. > > 30322 > > Phone: 732-857-7004 > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > > President Barack Obama > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 4452 (20090924) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Thu Sep 24 06:30:34 2009 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:30:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] HandyTech at the NFB of Iowa Convention Message-ID: <3BC5BC033FA2467A86BCD36330F61B45@dwrigh6> Handy Tech North America is pleased to be exhibiting at this year's Iowa state convention of the National Federation of the blind taking place from September 25-27 2009. If you will be visiting, or live in the Des Moines area and would like to get your hands on some of the cool adaptive technology products offered by HTNA, please contact me directly by sending e-mail to: earle at handytech.us Appointments may also be scheduled outside of exhibit hours In addition to the high quality Braille devices that bear the name Handy Tech, we will have items such as cases for the BookSense, I-Phone, N82 and netbooks. You can also get your hands on the Nokia N86 cell phone, the latest device to be supported by the revolutionary K-NFB Reader Mobile 'Software. There is still a limited supply of Nokia N82 and Nokia 6220 Classic available for sale as well. We will also have products from GW Micro such as Braille"Sense Plus notetaker, BookSense DAISY book Reader and Portable SenseView Pocket. So if you are visiting, or live in the Des Moines area, and you are looking for excellent pricing on products from a company whose reputation for high quality service and support is well known throughout the adaptive technology industry, we welcome the opportunity to meet with you in person. Best Regards, Earle Harrison Handy Tech North America Phone: 651-636-5184 Fax: 866-347-8249 E-mail: earle at handytech.us Web: www.handytech.us From dandrews at visi.com Thu Sep 24 06:52:26 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:52:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Rehab Counselor Job Rochester, Minnesota Message-ID: Minnesota State Services for the Blind has an opening for a Rehabilitation Counselor in Rochester, Minnesota. For those of you who know her -- this is Jan Bailey's job. We are sorry to se her go and would really like to find somebody who is good, for the position -- info below. Date Posted: 09/22/2009 Closing Date: 10/01/2009 Hiring Agency: Employment & Econ Development Dept Location: Rochester Who May Apply: Open to all qualified job seekers Posting Number: 09DEED000195 Employment Conditions: Permanent, Full-time Work Shift: Day Shift Days of Work: Monday-Friday , 08:00 AM-04:30 PM Travel Required: yes Job Grouping: Human Resources Classified Status: Classified Job Description: This position is part of the State Services for the Blind, located in Rochester. To plan and provide individualized vocational rehabilitation services needed to facilitate the achievement of the customer's vocational rehabilitation goal. Develop, monitor and maintain case services budget, which accurately reflects the supports needed by each customer to reach an employment goal. Assess eligibility for services according to Federal guidelines and Unit Policy, minimizing the length of time that passes between the date of application and the date of eligibility determination. Carry out a comprehensive assessment of all factors relevant to the development and preparation of the Individualized Plan for Employment (IPE) in accordance with Federal law and Unit Policy. Working in partnership with the customer, implement and successfully complete IPEs resulting in gainful employment. Provide support to the overall mission of the WorkForce Development Unit through a variety of activities. There is extensive traveling (same day) in Southeastern Minnesota and to Twin Cities area, primarily to visit clients. Minimum Qualifications: To qualify, you must have a Master's degree in Rehabilitation Counseling or a closely-related field (e.g., Rehabilitation Teaching, Employment/Placement Counseling, Counseling and Guidance, Educational Psychology) with graduate-level coursework in each of the following: theories and techniques of counseling; medical/psycho-social aspects of disability; assessment; and occupational information or job placement. You must submit a copy of your transcripts. Mail to: Dept of Employment and Economic Development, Attn: Susan Zeches, 1st National Bank Building, 332 Minnesota Street, Suite E200, St. Paul, MN 55101 or fax to 651-297-5343. Selection Process: The selection process is a resume-based, skill-matching process. Your resume will be entered into a database. The software program matches your skills with the skills needed to perform the duties of the position. If your skills match the required skills for this position, the department may contact you. NOTE: This position is being posted concurrently for internal candidates and if not filled with an internal candidate will be filled through this competitive announcement. To ensure consideration for this position, once you submit your resume through Resume Builder, you must apply directly to posting number 09DEED000195 by checking the "Apply for this job" box found near the top of this announcement. How to Apply: You are strongly encouraged to submit your resume through the online Resume Builder at <https://statejobs.doer.state.mn.us/ResumeBuilder>. You may copy and paste in your existing resume or let the software create a resume for you. You may edit your resume later should your contact information or experience change. The Resume Builder also collects your work preference information so we can match you with future job openings that meet your interests. Current State Employees: Please note that employment provisions (including but not limited to seniority and leave accrual) vary among the three branches of Minnesota State government. When considering a job with another branch of state government, you are highly encouraged to explore these differences. For assistance, please direct questions to both your current and anticipated Human Resources offices. If you wish to apply with a paper copy, submit your resume AND a completed State of Minnesota Employment Application form to: Minnesota Management & Budget (MMB), 200 Centennial Office Building, 658 Cedar Street, St. Paul, MN 55155. Be sure to indicate the posting number of this job on your application. The paper application is available on the State Employment Web and MMB web sites, at any state agency HR office, or by calling 651-259-3637. Contact for More Information: Sue Zeches, 651/259-7107 / sue.zeches at state.mn.us. From harryhogue at yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 08:24:47 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <378277.75275.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The physical focus with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are not given in this context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A coin always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... Harry --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: > From: David Andrews > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM > Why do people think it is okay to > touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted > adults.  I have thought about this a lot and have > concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class > as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as > we are semi-helpless and need assistance. > > Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully > functional, rights-holding adults. > > Dave > > At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: > > a couple of things that  were interesting > were  the concept of space. > > I find so much that  people will grap you > and  push you to redirect > > you; something  you would clearly not do to a > sighted individual.  I > > wonder what logical reason > people   have cross their minds  to make > it > > ok. to do something like that. > > > >  As for  people identifying > themselves;  some people do a rather good > > job of saying   where I've met them ( > that is   those who don't screw > > up my   name > lol).   within my time in AmeriCorps,  I > would  actually > > hold a conversation with someone for  a couple of > minutes and  within > > this conversation I could  figure out  what > project  they had, what > > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to > successfully id  the > > person.  So the only way  I  > think  this relates back, is sometimes > > you just have to kind of   make a > person talk  a bit  and you'll > > probably find out who it is if you have time to. > > > > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez > wrote: > > > Hello All. > > > I have not been following this thread faithfully, > however, I just > > > schemed through and found some very interesting > questions that are > > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a > psychology major at Emory > > > University, where research is our middle name! > Thus, some of this > > > facial expression experiments have been conducted > here. but I will > > > just talk about a very classic experiment  > by Paul Ekman. > > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures > from all around the > > > world. He took clips of those videos and > classified the facial > > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the > face were used to make > > > those expressions. As he watched more and more > clipse he determined a > > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across > cultures who had never met > > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to > the outside world, > > > and who had radically different customs and > traditions. > > > He then took pictures of different faces and > asked others what emotion > > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He > discovered that for > > > the most part most people could tell what the > picture was showing. > > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which > are: > > > Anger > > > Disgust > > > Fear > > > Happiness > > > Sadness > > > Surprise > > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, > contempt, pride, > > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt,  relief, > satisfaction, sensory > > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All > this is to say, that > > > facial expression are not cultural or learned > behavior, but rather > > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face > reflect at the very > > > least these emotions that I listed. The only > difference is that we are > > > not readily conscious of how we make these face > of guilt for example. > > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and > practice looking ashamed, it > > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain > lowering of the brows, we > > > have to think about it and consciously make an > effort if we want to > > > become proficient at making these expressions at > will. I am a > > > performer as well, and one of the big things I > work on is facial > > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the > audience what I'm > > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And > it is a valid skill > > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a > little bit that anger we > > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a > little long. > > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are > pissed off, it will > > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not > show any facial > > > expression or significantly lack body language, > this is not do to > > > being blind and not having learned expressions, > it is rather a > > > personality thing, and it probably just means > that you are much more > > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than > most people. > > > Mary > > > > > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth > wrote: > > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind > people are socially awkwad if > > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you > that explaining is basically a > > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought > questions to my mind....is it > > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to > never have it to lose? Things > > >> like > > >> this and if one has been sheltered either > sighted or not they are going to > > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy > had never really been around > > >> people without knowing how to act. > > >> > > >>          >    -Teal > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > > >> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >> > > >> > > >>>I hope you are not implying that all > people that have been blind since > > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have > lots of sighted friends, but > > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to > act. Also when people concitter > > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that > they see absolootly nothing. I have > > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not > enough to do much with and when > > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't > bother with attempting to explain the > > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just > confuses people. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > > >>> > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 > PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> well honestly i have only been around > one guy totally blind since birth > > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he > was happy or excited he would do a > > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against > someone and would giggle like a child > > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was > sheltered his whole life by his parents > > >>>> since he was adopted and the only > blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this > > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. > > >>>> > > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can > see like looking through a straw > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be > a priest. He is probably my hero > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the > future. > > >>>> > > >>>>          >   -Teal > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>> From: "Jedi" > > >>>> To: > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 > PM > > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Teal, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys > you're hanging with, but I don't notice > > >>>>> too much difference between those > born blind versus those who had sight > > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, > there is no significant personality > > >>>>> differences between the two. Life > experiences may vary, and life > > >>>>> experiences shape our > perceptions, but not so much so that it > > >>>>> fundamentally changes an > individual on such a deep level. That is, > > >>>>> unless they let it. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Respectfully, > > >>>>> Jedi > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Original message: > > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I > am sorry but that is hard to > > >>>>>> believe....maybe > > >>>>>> the facial expression you do > show is presumibly unfriendly? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> As for them not talking to > you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > > >>>>>> alittle > > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i > oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and > > >>>>>> i say > > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont > just see darkness. This is probably a > > >>>>>> psychological factor in that > i see a type of gray scale all the time > > >>>>>> and in > > >>>>>> department stores it seems to > be lighter because of the numerous > > >>>>>> florescent > > >>>>>> lighting but other times i > cannot really tell for sure whether i am in > > >>>>>> a > > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you > been blind or visually impaired since > > >>>>>> birth? I > > >>>>>> have found a slight > difference in personality characteristics in > > >>>>>> people > > >>>>>> blind since birth and those > that have become blind in the middle of > > >>>>>> life. > > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of > people who wear the dark shades but never > > >>>>>> personally met anyone that > does. Can i ask you why you choose to do > > >>>>>> so? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>        >      -Teal > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > > >>>>>> To: "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 8:21 PM > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just > think I am angry or something based off my > > >>>>>>> facial > > >>>>>>> expression. I am just > neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else > > >>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. > Some people don't like it when I don't > > >>>>>>> make/keep > > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes > people don't talk to me, because they think I > > >>>>>>> am > > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do > you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > > >>>>>>> affects others reaction > to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless > body language create a lot of oukword > > >>>>>>> situations. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message > ----- > > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > > >>>>>>> To: "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September > 20, 2009 9:00 PM > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have > had vision before but my eye movement via TBI > > >>>>>>>> isnt > > >>>>>>>> the best however > people say through my facial expressions and > > >>>>>>>> ability > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>> look in the direction > of the person thanks to depth perception > > >>>>>>>> people > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> say > > >>>>>>>> i dont even look > blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person > > >>>>>>>> looks like but i > believe all of these reflexes you are describing > > >>>>>>>> comes > > >>>>>>>> naturally from your > environment and maturation during infancy. We > > >>>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> actually talking > about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing > and walking and talking is a distinct > > >>>>>>>> developmental > > >>>>>>>> stage according to > piaget. Some say we learn these through > > >>>>>>>> environment > > >>>>>>>> and social > interaction while others say it is a specific cognative > > >>>>>>>> change > > >>>>>>>> in our biological > being. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that > it is a very interesting question and this > > >>>>>>>> topic > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>> a personal interest. > As for showing the world when you are pissed > > >>>>>>>> off > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> or > > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i > dont think you learn from actually seeing other > > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to > an action. I believe you learn these emotions > > >>>>>>>> through personality > development of what actions give you these > > >>>>>>>> feelings, > > >>>>>>>> then these feelings > are visually portrayed naturally. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on > anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > > >>>>>>>> question...i am a > social work/psychology major > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>      >       -Teal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original > Message ----- > > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. > Lininger" > > >>>>>>>> To: "National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Teal, > > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. > Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > > >>>>>>>>> muscle control > over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at > > >>>>>>>>> other > > >>>>>>>>> people, eye > contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for > a person to never make eye contact, and that it's > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> more > disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly > and > > >>>>>>>>> never > > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm > afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat > related, and I'd be curious to know what the > > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and > sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > > >>>>>>>>> little ground > work for the more general question, so bare with me. > > >>>>>>>>> I've > > >>>>>>>>> known for some > time that my emotions and moods  are communicated > > >>>>>>>>> visually, at > least sometimes. But I had something happen that > > >>>>>>>>> actually > > >>>>>>>>> got me curious > about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We > > >>>>>>>>> had a > > >>>>>>>>> router go down in > a data center at a company I had been working for > > >>>>>>>>> a > > >>>>>>>>> few months ago. > I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > > >>>>>>>>> everything > working, and that router went down at about 4 am and > > >>>>>>>>> took > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> entire company > off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room > > >>>>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>> one of the first > things the guy driving me to the data center said > > >>>>>>>>> was, > > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you > look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > > >>>>>>>>> someone." I > hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I > > >>>>>>>>> was. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware > of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried > > >>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and > ready for another day despite the promise of yet > > >>>>>>>>> more > > >>>>>>>>> problems. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> After this, I > became curious about exactly how expressive or not I > > >>>>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>>> with body > language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > > >>>>>>>>> known me for a > while, mainly family members about it and they all > > >>>>>>>>> said I > > >>>>>>>>> was in fact > expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> provided a > running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my > > >>>>>>>>> face > > >>>>>>>>> was doing while > conversing with people at her house. So, here's my > > >>>>>>>>> question. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I always thought > that at least to a point people learned these > > >>>>>>>>> expressions and > that mostly by observing those around them and > > >>>>>>>>> learning > > >>>>>>>>> what they meant. > I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't > > >>>>>>>>> work > > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I > could even understand certain reflexive > > >>>>>>>>> expressions. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> For > > >>>>>>>>> example, > stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I > > >>>>>>>>> thought > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> more detailed > stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with > > >>>>>>>>> certain > > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that > sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing > > >>>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see > others doing these things and never have been able > > >>>>>>>>> to, > > >>>>>>>>> how would I have > possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been > > >>>>>>>>> done > > >>>>>>>>> regarding such > things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking > the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically > > >>>>>>>>> taught > > >>>>>>>>> those while I > didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas > > >>>>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>>>> what governs what > visual cues are natural or learned in spite of > > >>>>>>>>> lack of > > >>>>>>>>> vision and which > must be picked up visually? > > >>>>>>>>> - -- > > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The > condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > > >>>>>>>>> body's natural > desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > > >>>>>>>>> who desperately > deserves it. > > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. > Lininger, > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG > v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > > >>>>>>>>> > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > > >>>>>>>>> > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > > >>>>>>>>> > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > > >>>>>>>>> > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > > >>>>>>>>> > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x > > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > >>>>> B > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Email services provided by the > System Access Mobile Network.  Visit > > >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more > about accessibility anywhere. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>> nabs-l: > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mary Fernandez > > > Emory University 2012 > > > P.O. Box 123056 > > > Atlanta Ga. > > > 30322 > > > Phone: 732-857-7004 > > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we > understand that > > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > > > President Barack Obama > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, > version of virus signature database 4452 (20090924) > __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Sep 24 08:44:57 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:44:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Message-ID: <20090924084457.10554.734@web1.serotek.com> Dave, Sadly, there are blind people who also agree that we're more dependent than everyone else, too and would therefore be grateful to be pulled and prodded. Sad indeed. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Why do people think it is okay to touch us when they wouldn't do the > same to sighted adults. I have thought about this a lot and have > concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class as small > children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as we are > semi-helpless and need assistance. > Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully functional, > rights-holding adults. > Dave > At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: >> a couple of things that were interesting were the concept of space. >> I find so much that people will grap you and push you to redirect >> you; something you would clearly not do to a sighted individual. I >> wonder what logical reason people have cross their minds to make it >> ok. to do something like that. >> As for people identifying themselves; some people do a rather good >> job of saying where I've met them ( that is those who don't screw >> up my name lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I would actually >> hold a conversation with someone for a couple of minutes and within >> this conversation I could figure out what project they had, what >> team they were on, and by doing so I was able to successfully id the >> person. So the only way I think this relates back, is sometimes >> you just have to kind of make a person talk a bit and you'll >> probably find out who it is if you have time to. >> On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez wrote: >>> Hello All. >>> I have not been following this thread faithfully, however, I just >>> schemed through and found some very interesting questions that are >>> actually not unique in this setting. I am a psychology major at Emory >>> University, where research is our middle name! Thus, some of this >>> facial expression experiments have been conducted here. but I will >>> just talk about a very classic experiment by Paul Ekman. >>> Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures from all around the >>> world. He took clips of those videos and classified the facial >>> expression, by categorizing what muscles in the face were used to make >>> those expressions. As he watched more and more clipse he determined a >>> clear pattern of emotions, of people across cultures who had never met >>> each other, some of which had not tv or access to the outside world, >>> and who had radically different customs and traditions. >>> He then took pictures of different faces and asked others what emotion >>> the subject in the picture was experiencing. He discovered that for >>> the most part most people could tell what the picture was showing. >>> Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which are: >>> Anger >>> Disgust >>> Fear >>> Happiness >>> Sadness >>> Surprise >>> Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, contempt, pride, >>> excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, satisfaction, sensory >>> pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All this is to say, that >>> facial expression are not cultural or learned behavior, but rather >>> biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face reflect at the very >>> least these emotions that I listed. The only difference is that we are >>> not readily conscious of how we make these face of guilt for example. >>> Sighted people can look in the mirror and practice looking ashamed, it >>> is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain lowering of the brows, we >>> have to think about it and consciously make an effort if we want to >>> become proficient at making these expressions at will. I am a >>> performer as well, and one of the big things I work on is facial >>> expression, how do I consciously convey to the audience what I'm >>> feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And it is a valid skill >>> to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a little bit that anger we >>> fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a little long. >>> But all this is to merely say, that when you are pissed off, it will >>> show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not show any facial >>> expression or significantly lack body language, this is not do to >>> being blind and not having learned expressions, it is rather a >>> personality thing, and it probably just means that you are much more >>> cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than most people. >>> Mary >>> On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: >>>> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind people are socially awkwad if >>>> they are blind from birth. I agree with you that explaining is basically a >>>> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought questions to my mind....is it >>>> harder to lose your vision mid life or to never have it to lose? Things >>>> like >>>> this and if one has been sheltered either sighted or not they are going to >>>> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy had never really been around >>>> people without knowing how to act. >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>> I hope you are not implying that all people that have been blind since >>>>> birth are socially awkward. I may not have lots of sighted friends, but >>>>> this is not due to me not knowing how to act. Also when people concitter >>>>> themselves blind it does not meen that they see absolootly nothing. I have >>>>> a little bit of usable vision, but not enough to do much with and when >>>>> people ask I say I am blind. I don't bother with attempting to explain the >>>>> miniscule amount of vision I have, it just confuses people. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>> well honestly i have only been around one guy totally blind since birth >>>>>> and he was socially awkward. When he was happy or excited he would do a >>>>>> wiggling of the butt up against someone and would giggle like a child >>>>>> when he was 27. I think he was sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>>>> since he was adopted and the only blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>>>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>>>> Another guy with retina problems can see like looking through a straw >>>>>> and >>>>>> was a senior in college trying to be a priest. He is probably my hero >>>>>> and >>>>>> gave me some saying i will use in the future. >>>>>> -Teal >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Jedi" >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>> I don't know which blind guys you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>>>> too much difference between those born blind versus those who had sight >>>>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, there is no significant personality >>>>>>> differences between the two. Life experiences may vary, and life >>>>>>> experiences shape our perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>>>> fundamentally changes an individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>>>> unless they let it. >>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>> Jedi >>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>>>> the facial expression you do show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>>>>> As for them not talking to you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>>>> alittle >>>>>>>> stereotipical for me but i oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>>>>> i say >>>>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>>>> psychological factor in that i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>>>> and in >>>>>>>> department stores it seems to be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>>>> florescent >>>>>>>> lighting but other times i cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>>>> birth? I >>>>>>>> have found a slight difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>> blind since birth and those that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>> And honestly i have heard of people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>>>>> personally met anyone that does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>>>> so? >>>>>>>> -Teal >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>> Most sighted people just think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>>>> facial >>>>>>>>> expression. I am just neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>>>>>> As a side note, how do you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>>>>> affects others reaction to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>>>>> occasionally emotionless body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>>>> situations. >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>>>> the best however people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> look in the direction of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>> i dont even look blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>>>>> looks like but i believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>>>> naturally from your environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> actually talking about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>>>> stage according to piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>> and social interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>> in our biological being. >>>>>>>>>> I agree with yu that it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> a personal interest. As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> sad or even happy i dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>>>>> peoples responses to an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>>>> through personality development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>>>> then these feelings are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>>>>>>> Dont quote me on anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>>>>> question...i am a social work/psychology major >>>>>>>>>> -Teal >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. Lininger" >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>>>>> muscle control over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> people, eye contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>>>> disconcerting for a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>> more disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly and >>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>> break it. I'm afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>>>>>>>> This is somewhat related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>>>> psychologists and sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>>>>> little ground work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>> known for some time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>>>>> visually, at least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>> got me curious about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>>>> router go down in a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> few months ago. I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>>>> everything working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>>>> took >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> entire company off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> one of the first things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>>>>> someone." I hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> look pleasant and ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>>>>>>>> After this, I became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> with body language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>>>>> known me for a while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>>>> was in fact expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>> provided a running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>>> was doing while conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>>>> I always thought that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>>>> expressions and that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>>>> what they meant. I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>> that way, and I could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>>>> expressions. >>>>>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>>>>> example, stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> more detailed stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>> expressions, that sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> how I can't see others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>>>> how would I have possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>> regarding such things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>>>> those while I didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> what governs what visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>>>> vision and which must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>>>>> body's natural desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>>>>> who desperately deserves it. >>>>>>>>>>> Joseph C. Lininger, >>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>>>>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>>>>>>>>>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>>>>>>>>>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>>>>>>>>>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>>>>>>>>>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>>>>>>>>>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>> B >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> -- >>> Mary Fernandez >>> Emory University 2012 >>> P.O. 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Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu Sep 24 09:53:30 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:53:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Message-ID: <20090924095330.14564.39391@web1.serotek.com> Harry, That may be, but it's still no less acceptable to me to be grabbed and steered, especially when I can communicate just fine. When I find sighted people getting flustered, I tell them to stop, breathe, think clearly, then try again. If that doesn't work, I ask them key questions that are likely to get me the answers I want. Even less acceptable are the times when sighted people grab me thinking I want their help when they haven't even asked and just assumed that I did. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Please do not forget that often when people direct through some > physical means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate > direction; many people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The > physical focus with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are > not given in this context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing > gestures is used. Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction > to the person's desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal > direction is used. > I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A > coin always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... > Harry > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: >> From: David Andrews >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM >> Why do people think it is okay to >> touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted >> adults.  I have thought about this a lot and have >> concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class >> as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as >> we are semi-helpless and need assistance. >> Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully >> functional, rights-holding adults. >> Dave >> At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: >>> a couple of things that  were interesting >> were  the concept of space. >>> I find so much that  people will grap you >> and  push you to redirect >>> you; something  you would clearly not do to a >> sighted individual.  I >>> wonder what logical reason >> people   have cross their minds  to make >> it >>> ok. to do something like that. >>>   As for  people identifying >> themselves;  some people do a rather good >>> job of saying   where I've met them ( >> that is   those who don't screw >>> up my   name >> lol).   within my time in AmeriCorps,  I >> would  actually >>> hold a conversation with someone for  a couple of >> minutes and  within >>> this conversation I could  figure out  what >> project  they had, what >>> team they were on, and by doing so I was able to >> successfully id  the >>> person.  So the only way  I >> think  this relates back, is sometimes >>> you just have to kind of   make a >> person talk  a bit  and you'll >>> probably find out who it is if you have time to. >>> On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez >> wrote: >>>> Hello All. >>>> I have not been following this thread faithfully, >> however, I just >>>> schemed through and found some very interesting >> questions that are >>>> actually not unique in this setting. I am a >> psychology major at Emory >>>> University, where research is our middle name! >> Thus, some of this >>>> facial expression experiments have been conducted >> here. but I will >>>> just talk about a very classic experiment >> by Paul Ekman. >>>> Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures >> from all around the >>>> world. He took clips of those videos and >> classified the facial >>>> expression, by categorizing what muscles in the >> face were used to make >>>> those expressions. As he watched more and more >> clipse he determined a >>>> clear pattern of emotions, of people across >> cultures who had never met >>>> each other, some of which had not tv or access to >> the outside world, >>>> and who had radically different customs and >> traditions. >>>> He then took pictures of different faces and >> asked others what emotion >>>> the subject in the picture was experiencing. He >> discovered that for >>>> the most part most people could tell what the >> picture was showing. >>>> Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which >> are: >>>> Anger >>>> Disgust >>>> Fear >>>> Happiness >>>> Sadness >>>> Surprise >>>> Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, >> contempt, pride, >>>> excitement, embarrassment, guilt,  relief, >> satisfaction, sensory >>>> pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All >> this is to say, that >>>> facial expression are not cultural or learned >> behavior, but rather >>>> biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face >> reflect at the very >>>> least these emotions that I listed. The only >> difference is that we are >>>> not readily conscious of how we make these face >> of guilt for example. >>>> Sighted people can look in the mirror and >> practice looking ashamed, it >>>> is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain >> lowering of the brows, we >>>> have to think about it and consciously make an >> effort if we want to >>>> become proficient at making these expressions at >> will. I am a >>>> performer as well, and one of the big things I >> work on is facial >>>> expression, how do I consciously convey to the >> audience what I'm >>>> feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And >> it is a valid skill >>>> to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a >> little bit that anger we >>>> fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a >> little long. >>>> But all this is to merely say, that when you are >> pissed off, it will >>>> show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not >> show any facial >>>> expression or significantly lack body language, >> this is not do to >>>> being blind and not having learned expressions, >> it is rather a >>>> personality thing, and it probably just means >> that you are much more >>>> cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than >> most people. >>>> Mary >>>> On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth >> wrote: >>>>> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind >> people are socially awkwad if >>>>> they are blind from birth. I agree with you >> that explaining is basically a >>>>> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought >> questions to my mind....is it >>>>> harder to lose your vision mid life or to >> never have it to lose? Things >>>>> like >>>>> this and if one has been sheltered either >> sighted or not they are going to >>>>> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy >> had never really been around >>>>> people without knowing how to act. >>    -Teal >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: >> What would you do? >>>>>> I hope you are not implying that all >> people that have been blind since >>>>>> birth are socially awkward. I may not have >> lots of sighted friends, but >>>>>> this is not due to me not knowing how to >> act. Also when people concitter >>>>>> themselves blind it does not meen that >> they see absolootly nothing. I have >>>>>> a little bit of usable vision, but not >> enough to do much with and when >>>>>> people ask I say I am blind. I don't >> bother with attempting to explain the >>>>>> miniscule amount of vision I have, it just >> confuses people. >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 >> PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: >> What would you do? >>>>>>> well honestly i have only been around >> one guy totally blind since birth >>>>>>> and he was socially awkward. When he >> was happy or excited he would do a >>>>>>> wiggling of the butt up against >> someone and would giggle like a child >>>>>>> when he was 27. I think he was >> sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>>>>> since he was adopted and the only >> blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>>>>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>>>>> Another guy with retina problems can >> see like looking through a straw >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> was a senior in college trying to be >> a priest. He is probably my hero >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> gave me some saying i will use in the >> future. >>   -Teal >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Jedi" >>>>>>> To: >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 >> PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward >> Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>> I don't know which blind guys >> you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>>>>> too much difference between those >> born blind versus those who had sight >>>>>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, >> there is no significant personality >>>>>>>> differences between the two. Life >> experiences may vary, and life >>>>>>>> experiences shape our >> perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>>>>> fundamentally changes an >> individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>>>>> unless they let it. >>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>> Jedi >>>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I >> am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>>>>> the facial expression you do >> show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>>>>>> As for them not talking to >> you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>>>>> alittle >>>>>>>>> stereotipical for me but i >> oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>>>>>> i say >>>>>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont >> just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>>>>> psychological factor in that >> i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>>>>> and in >>>>>>>>> department stores it seems to >> be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>>>>> florescent >>>>>>>>> lighting but other times i >> cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you >> been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>>>>> birth? I >>>>>>>>> have found a slight >> difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>> blind since birth and those >> that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>> And honestly i have heard of >> people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>>>>>> personally met anyone that >> does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>>>>> so? >>      -Teal >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> >>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, >> 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward >> Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>> Most sighted people just >> think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>>>>> facial >>>>>>>>>> expression. I am just >> neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. >> Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes >> people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>>>>>>> As a side note, how do >> you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>>>>>> affects others reaction >> to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>>>>>> occasionally emotionless >> body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>>>>> situations. >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message >> ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September >> 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have >> had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>>>>> the best however >> people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> look in the direction >> of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>> i dont even look >> blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>>>>>> looks like but i >> believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>>>>> naturally from your >> environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> actually talking >> about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing >> and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>>>>> stage according to >> piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>> and social >> interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>> in our biological >> being. >>>>>>>>>>> I agree with yu that >> it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> a personal interest. >> As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>> sad or even happy i >> dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>>>>>> peoples responses to >> an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>>>>> through personality >> development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>>>>> then these feelings >> are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>>>>>>>> Dont quote me on >> anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>>>>>> question...i am a >> social work/psychology major >>       -Teal >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original >> Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. >> Lininger" >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, >> September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP >> SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. >> Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>>>>>> muscle control >> over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> people, eye >> contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>>>>> disconcerting for >> a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> more >> disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly >> and >>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>> break it. I'm >> afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>>>>>>>>> This is somewhat >> related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>>>>> psychologists and >> sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>>>>>> little ground >> work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>> known for some >> time that my emotions and moods  are communicated >>>>>>>>>>>> visually, at >> least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>> got me curious >> about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>>>>> router go down in >> a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>> few months ago. >> I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>>>>> everything >> working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>>>>> took >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> entire company >> off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> one of the first >> things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you >> look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>>>>>> someone." I >> hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware >> of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> look pleasant and >> ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>>>>>>>>> After this, I >> became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> with body >> language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>>>>>> known me for a >> while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>>>>> was in fact >> expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>> provided a >> running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>>>> was doing while >> conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>>>>> I always thought >> that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>>>>> expressions and >> that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>>>>> what they meant. >> I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>> that way, and I >> could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>>>>> expressions. >>>>>>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>>>>>> example, >> stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> more detailed >> stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>> expressions, that >> sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> how I can't see >> others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>>>>> how would I have >> possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>> regarding such >> things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking >> the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>>>>> those while I >> didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>> what governs what >> visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>>>>> vision and which >> must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The >> condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>>>>>> body's natural >> desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>>>>>> who desperately >> deserves it. >>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph C. >> Lininger, >>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP >> SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG >> v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>>>>> -----END PGP >> SIGNATURE----- >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing >> list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>>> B >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Email services provided by the >> System Access Mobile Network.  Visit >>>>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more >> about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>>> -- >>>> Mary Fernandez >>>> Emory University 2012 >>>> P.O. 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Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From harryhogue at yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 10:43:31 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? In-Reply-To: <20090924095330.14564.39391@web1.serotek.com> Message-ID: <460844.38988.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree, from the stand point of the blind person (which I am, of course). I was looking at it from the point of view of the random person on the street; a rather useful exercise, in my opinion. Respectfully, Harry --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Jedi wrote: > From: Jedi > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 4:53 AM > Harry, > > That may be, but it's still no less acceptable to me to be > grabbed and steered, especially when I can communicate just > fine. When I find sighted people getting flustered, I tell > them to stop, breathe, think clearly, then try again. If > that doesn't work, I ask them key questions that are likely > to get me the answers I want. Even less acceptable are the > times when sighted people grab me thinking I want their help > when they haven't even asked and just assumed that I did. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: > > Please do not forget that often when people direct > through some physical means, it is simply the best way they > know to communicate direction; many people find it tedious > to verbally direct someone.  The physical focus with > the sighted person is pointing.  Explanations are not > given in this context; minimal verbal direction, while > maximizing gestures is used.  Likewise, with a blind > person, a physical direction to the person's desired course > (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. > > > I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is > logical to me.  A coin always has two sides, a story > multiple interpretations, etc... > > > Harry > > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews > wrote: > > >> From: David Andrews > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What > would you do? > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > >> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM > >> Why do people think it is okay to > >> touch us when they wouldn't do the same to > sighted > >> adults.  I have thought about this a lot and > have > >> concluded that part of their minds put us in the > same class > >> as small children, so it is okay to touch and > direct us as > >> we are semi-helpless and need assistance. > > >> Clearly some people don't regard us as > independent, fully > >> functional, rights-holding adults. > > >> Dave > > >> At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: > >>> a couple of things that  were interesting > >> were  the concept of space. > >>> I find so much that  people will grap you > >> and  push you to redirect > >>> you; something  you would clearly not do to > a > >> sighted individual.  I > >>> wonder what logical reason > >> people   have cross their minds  to make > >> it > >>> ok. to do something like that. > > >>>   As for  people identifying > >> themselves;  some people do a rather good > >>> job of saying   where I've met them ( > >> that is   those who don't screw > >>> up my   name > >> lol).   within my time in AmeriCorps,  I > >> would  actually > >>> hold a conversation with someone for  a > couple of > >> minutes and  within > >>> this conversation I could  figure out  what > >> project  they had, what > >>> team they were on, and by doing so I was able > to > >> successfully id  the > >>> person.  So the only way  I > >> think  this relates back, is sometimes > >>> you just have to kind of   make a > >> person talk  a bit  and you'll > >>> probably find out who it is if you have time > to. > > >>> On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez > >> wrote: > >>>> Hello All. > >>>> I have not been following this thread > faithfully, > >> however, I just > >>>> schemed through and found some very > interesting > >> questions that are > >>>> actually not unique in this setting. I am > a > >> psychology major at Emory > >>>> University, where research is our middle > name! > >> Thus, some of this > >>>> facial expression experiments have been > conducted > >> here. but I will > >>>> just talk about a very classic experiment > >> by Paul Ekman. > >>>> Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote > cultures > >> from all around the > >>>> world. He took clips of those videos and > >> classified the facial > >>>> expression, by categorizing what muscles > in the > >> face were used to make > >>>> those expressions. As he watched more and > more > >> clipse he determined a > >>>> clear pattern of emotions, of people > across > >> cultures who had never met > >>>> each other, some of which had not tv or > access to > >> the outside world, > >>>> and who had radically different customs > and > >> traditions. > >>>> He then took pictures of different faces > and > >> asked others what emotion > >>>> the subject in the picture was > experiencing. He > >> discovered that for > >>>> the most part most people could tell what > the > >> picture was showing. > >>>> Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions > which > >> are: > >>>> Anger > >>>> Disgust > >>>> Fear > >>>> Happiness > >>>> Sadness > >>>> Surprise > >>>> Later, in 1992, he added to the list, > disgust, > >> contempt, pride, > >>>> excitement, embarrassment, guilt,  > relief, > >> satisfaction, sensory > >>>> pleasure and shame. I think i got them > all. All > >> this is to say, that > >>>> facial expression are not cultural or > learned > >> behavior, but rather > >>>> biological. Thus, as a blind person, our > face > >> reflect at the very > >>>> least these emotions that I listed. The > only > >> difference is that we are > >>>> not readily conscious of how we make these > face > >> of guilt for example. > >>>> Sighted people can look in the mirror and > >> practice looking ashamed, it > >>>> is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain > >> lowering of the brows, we > >>>> have to think about it and consciously > make an > >> effort if we want to > >>>> become proficient at making these > expressions at > >> will. I am a > >>>> performer as well, and one of the big > things I > >> work on is facial > >>>> expression, how do I consciously convey to > the > >> audience what I'm > >>>> feeling? It takes practice but it is > doable. And > >> it is a valid skill > >>>> to learn, since sometimes we want to hide > a > >> little bit that anger we > >>>> fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer > was a > >> little long. > >>>> But all this is to merely say, that when > you are > >> pissed off, it will > >>>> show on your face. Smile. If you however, > do not > >> show any facial > >>>> expression or significantly lack body > language, > >> this is not do to > >>>> being blind and not having learned > expressions, > >> it is rather a > >>>> personality thing, and it probably just > means > >> that you are much more > >>>> cool-headed, and get less easily aroused > than > >> most people. > >>>> Mary > > >>>> On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth > >> wrote: > >>>>> Right i have no usable vision. Not all > blind > >> people are socially awkwad if > >>>>> they are blind from birth. I agree > with you > >> that explaining is basically a > >>>>> waste of time. I am saying this guy > brought > >> questions to my mind....is it > >>>>> harder to lose your vision mid life or > to > >> never have it to lose? Things > >>>>> like > >>>>> this and if one has been sheltered > either > >> sighted or not they are going to > >>>>> have a bit of social awkwardness. This > guy > >> had never really been around > >>>>> people without knowing how to act. > > > >>    -Teal > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students > >> mailing list" > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 > PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: > >> What would you do? > > > >>>>>> I hope you are not implying that > all > >> people that have been blind since > >>>>>> birth are socially awkward. I may > not have > >> lots of sighted friends, but > >>>>>> this is not due to me not knowing > how to > >> act. Also when people concitter > >>>>>> themselves blind it does not meen > that > >> they see absolootly nothing. I have > >>>>>> a little bit of usable vision, but > not > >> enough to do much with and when > >>>>>> people ask I say I am blind. I > don't > >> bother with attempting to explain the > >>>>>> miniscule amount of vision I have, > it just > >> confuses people. > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > >>>>>> To: "National Association of > Blind > >> Students mailing list" > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 > 5:29 > >> PM > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: > >> What would you do? > > > >>>>>>> well honestly i have only been > around > >> one guy totally blind since birth > >>>>>>> and he was socially awkward. > When he > >> was happy or excited he would do a > >>>>>>> wiggling of the butt up > against > >> someone and would giggle like a child > >>>>>>> when he was 27. I think he > was > >> sheltered his whole life by his parents > >>>>>>> since he was adopted and the > only > >> blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this > >>>>>>> gave me an indifferent > impression. > > >>>>>>> Another guy with retina > problems can > >> see like looking through a straw > >>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>> was a senior in college trying > to be > >> a priest. He is probably my hero > >>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>> gave me some saying i will use > in the > >> future. > > > >>   -Teal > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>>> From: "Jedi" > >>>>>>> To: > >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, > 2009 3:50 > >> PM > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > >> Situations: What would you do? > > > >>>>>>>> Teal, > > >>>>>>>> I don't know which blind > guys > >> you're hanging with, but I don't notice > >>>>>>>> too much difference > between those > >> born blind versus those who had sight > >>>>>>>> at some point. > Fundamentally, > >> there is no significant personality > >>>>>>>> differences between the > two. Life > >> experiences may vary, and life > >>>>>>>> experiences shape our > >> perceptions, but not so much so that it > >>>>>>>> fundamentally changes an > >> individual on such a deep level. That is, > >>>>>>>> unless they let it. > > >>>>>>>> Respectfully, > >>>>>>>> Jedi > > > >>>>>>>> Original message: > >>>>>>>>> you dont show any > emotion? I > >> am sorry but that is hard to > >>>>>>>>> believe....maybe > >>>>>>>>> the facial expression > you do > >> show is presumibly unfriendly? > > >>>>>>>>> As for them not > talking to > >> you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > >>>>>>>>> alittle > >>>>>>>>> stereotipical for me > but i > >> oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and > >>>>>>>>> i say > >>>>>>>>> i am totally blind but > i dont > >> just see darkness. This is probably a > >>>>>>>>> psychological factor > in that > >> i see a type of gray scale all the time > >>>>>>>>> and in > >>>>>>>>> department stores it > seems to > >> be lighter because of the numerous > >>>>>>>>> florescent > >>>>>>>>> lighting but other > times i > >> cannot really tell for sure whether i am in > >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>> lighted room or not. > Have you > >> been blind or visually impaired since > >>>>>>>>> birth? I > >>>>>>>>> have found a slight > >> difference in personality characteristics in > >>>>>>>>> people > >>>>>>>>> blind since birth and > those > >> that have become blind in the middle of > >>>>>>>>> life. > >>>>>>>>> And honestly i have > heard of > >> people who wear the dark shades but never > >>>>>>>>> personally met anyone > that > >> does. Can i ask you why you choose to do > >>>>>>>>> so? > > > >>      -Teal > >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message > ----- > >>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. > Cadigan" > >> > >>>>>>>>> To: "National > Association of > >> Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > September 20, > >> 2009 8:21 PM > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward > >> Situations: What would you do? > > > >>>>>>>>>> Most sighted > people just > >> think I am angry or something based off my > >>>>>>>>>> facial > >>>>>>>>>> expression. I am > just > >> neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else > >>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>> the emotional > spectrum. > >> Some people don't like it when I don't > >>>>>>>>>> make/keep > >>>>>>>>>> eye contact. > Sometimes > >> people don't talk to me, because they think I > >>>>>>>>>> am > >>>>>>>>>> too unreadable at > times. > > >>>>>>>>>> As a side note, > how do > >> you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > >>>>>>>>>> affects others > reaction > >> to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > >>>>>>>>>> occasionally > emotionless > >> body language create a lot of oukword > >>>>>>>>>> situations. > > > >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original > Message > >> ----- > >>>>>>>>>> From: "Teal > Bloodworth" > >> > >>>>>>>>>> To: "National > Association > >> of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > September > >> 20, 2009 9:00 PM > >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] > >> Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Honestly, yes > i have > >> had vision before but my eye movement via TBI > >>>>>>>>>>> isnt > >>>>>>>>>>> the best > however > >> people say through my facial expressions and > >>>>>>>>>>> ability > > >>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> look in the > direction > >> of the person thanks to depth perception > >>>>>>>>>>> people > > >>>>>>>>>>> say > >>>>>>>>>>> i dont even > look > >> blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind > person > >>>>>>>>>>> looks like but > i > >> believe all of these reflexes you are describing > >>>>>>>>>>> comes > >>>>>>>>>>> naturally from > your > >> environment and maturation during infancy. We > >>>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>> actually > talking > >> about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > >>>>>>>>>>> reaching, > grabbing > >> and walking and talking is a distinct > >>>>>>>>>>> developmental > >>>>>>>>>>> stage > according to > >> piaget. Some say we learn these through > >>>>>>>>>>> environment > >>>>>>>>>>> and social > >> interaction while others say it is a specific > cognative > >>>>>>>>>>> change > >>>>>>>>>>> in our > biological > >> being. > > >>>>>>>>>>> I agree with > yu that > >> it is a very interesting question and this > >>>>>>>>>>> topic > > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> a personal > interest. > >> As for showing the world when you are pissed > >>>>>>>>>>> off > > >>>>>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>>>> sad or even > happy i > >> dont think you learn from actually seeing other > >>>>>>>>>>> peoples > responses to > >> an action. I believe you learn these emotions > >>>>>>>>>>> through > personality > >> development of what actions give you these > >>>>>>>>>>> feelings, > >>>>>>>>>>> then these > feelings > >> are visually portrayed naturally. > > >>>>>>>>>>> Dont quote me > on > >> anything, this is my opinion of the answer to > your > >>>>>>>>>>> question...i > am a > >> social work/psychology major > > > >>       -Teal > > >>>>>>>>>>> ----- > Original > >> Message ----- > >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph > C. > >> Lininger" > >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National > >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > >> September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: > [nabs-l] > >> Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN > PGP > >> SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hash: > SHA256 > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Teal, > >>>>>>>>>>>> LOL That's > funny. > >> Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > >>>>>>>>>>>> muscle > control > >> over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking > at > >>>>>>>>>>>> other > >>>>>>>>>>>> people, > eye > >> contact, that sort of thing. I have been told > it's > >>>>>>>>>>>> > disconcerting for > >> a person to never make eye contact, and that it's > >>>>>>>>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>>>>> more > >> disconcerting for a person to make eye contact > constantly > >> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> never > >>>>>>>>>>>> break it. > I'm > >> afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> This is > somewhat > >> related, and I'd be curious to know what the > >>>>>>>>>>>> > psychologists and > >> sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > >>>>>>>>>>>> little > ground > >> work for the more general question, so bare with > me. > >>>>>>>>>>>> I've > >>>>>>>>>>>> known for > some > >> time that my emotions and moods  are > communicated > >>>>>>>>>>>> visually, > at > >> least sometimes. But I had something happen that > >>>>>>>>>>>> actually > >>>>>>>>>>>> got me > curious > >> about trying to find out exactly how it happens. > We > >>>>>>>>>>>> had a > >>>>>>>>>>>> router go > down in > >> a data center at a company I had been working for > >>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> few months > ago. > >> I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > >>>>>>>>>>>> > everything > >> working, and that router went down at about 4 am > and > >>>>>>>>>>>> took > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> entire > company > >> off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel > room > >>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> one of the > first > >> things the guy driving me to the data center said > >>>>>>>>>>>> was, > >>>>>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, > you > >> look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to > kill > >>>>>>>>>>>> someone." > I > >> hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though > I > >>>>>>>>>>>> was. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't > even aware > >> of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried > >>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>> look > pleasant and > >> ready for another day despite the promise of yet > >>>>>>>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>>>>>> problems. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> After > this, I > >> became curious about exactly how expressive or not > I > >>>>>>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>>>>> with body > >> language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people > who had > >>>>>>>>>>>> known me > for a > >> while, mainly family members about it and they > all > >>>>>>>>>>>> said I > >>>>>>>>>>>> was in > fact > >> expressive visually, at least to a point. My > sister > >>>>>>>>>>>> even > >>>>>>>>>>>> provided > a > >> running commentary one day for a few minutes on > what my > >>>>>>>>>>>> face > >>>>>>>>>>>> was doing > while > >> conversing with people at her house. So, here's > my > >>>>>>>>>>>> question. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I always > thought > >> that at least to a point people learned these > >>>>>>>>>>>> > expressions and > >> that mostly by observing those around them and > >>>>>>>>>>>> learning > >>>>>>>>>>>> what they > meant. > >> I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't > >>>>>>>>>>>> work > >>>>>>>>>>>> that way, > and I > >> could even understand certain reflexive > >>>>>>>>>>>> > expressions. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> For > >>>>>>>>>>>> example, > >> stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, > I > >>>>>>>>>>>> thought > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> more > detailed > >> stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with > >>>>>>>>>>>> certain > >>>>>>>>>>>> > expressions, that > >> sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing > >>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>> how I > can't see > >> others doing these things and never have been > able > >>>>>>>>>>>> to, > >>>>>>>>>>>> how would > I have > >> possibly picked them up? Have any experiments > been > >>>>>>>>>>>> done > >>>>>>>>>>>> regarding > such > >> things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such > as > >>>>>>>>>>>> nodding, > shaking > >> the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically > >>>>>>>>>>>> taught > >>>>>>>>>>>> those > while I > >> didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any > ideas > >>>>>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>>>>>>>> what > governs what > >> visual cues are natural or learned in spite of > >>>>>>>>>>>> lack of > >>>>>>>>>>>> vision and > which > >> must be picked up visually? > >>>>>>>>>>>> - -- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Stress > (N): The > >> condition that occurs when ones mind overrides > the > >>>>>>>>>>>> body's > natural > >> desire to reach out and slap the hell out of > someone > >>>>>>>>>>>> who > desperately > >> deserves it. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph C. > >> Lininger, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN > PGP > >> SIGNATURE----- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Version: > GnuPG > >> v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > > >> > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > > >> > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > > >> > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > > >> > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > > >> > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > > >> > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > >>>>>>>>>>>> =gV8x > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----END > PGP > >> SIGNATURE----- > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l > mailing > >> list > >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>>> To > unsubscribe, > >> change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>>> To > unsubscribe, > >> change your list options or get your account info > >>>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change > >> your list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your > >> list options or get your account info for > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>>>>>>> B > > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Email services provided by > the > >> System Access Mobile Network.  Visit > >>>>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn > more > >> about accessibility anywhere. > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list > >> options or get your account info for > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list > >> options or get your account info for > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options > >> or get your account info for > >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or > >> get your account info for > >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > > > >>>> -- > >>>> Mary Fernandez > >>>> Emory University 2012 > >>>> P.O. Box 123056 > >>>> Atlanta Ga. > >>>> 30322 > >>>> Phone: 732-857-7004 > >>>> In reaffirming the greatness of our > nation, we > >> understand that > >>>> greatness is never a given. It must be > earned. > >>>> President Barack Obama > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get > >> your account info for > >>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart > Security, > >> version of virus signature database 4452 > (20090924) > >> __________ > > >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart > Security. > > >>> http://www.eset.com > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your > >> account info for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile > Network.  Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about > accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > From harryhogue at yahoo.com Thu Sep 24 10:45:49 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 03:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Website for Chinese Braille Message-ID: <243180.52483.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, I wanted to make any who is interested aware of a website I recently found providing excellent information concerning Chinese Braille. Anyone who is knowledgeable in reading Chinese Braille should feel free to correct any inconsistances, but as far as I can tell it will serve me well for my studies of Chinese in hopeful anticipation of my accpetance for a job position in Taiwan. Thanks, Harry http://www.braille.ch/pschin-e.htm From mewhalen at wisc.edu Thu Sep 24 12:57:20 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:57:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> I don't think their friends were doing that because they were homosexuals. It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your roommates' sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. Just my thoughts, meghan From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 13:54:39 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:54:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <378277.75275.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A56AA8E499340C2B17A6365B94ED90A@teal6e6857f643> yes you are right. on our trip through the city we had numerous people grab us for help whether we asked or not and then we asked a guy and he said yeah keep going straight and you will feel two cars then diaganal to the right for the door. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 3:24 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The physical focus with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are not given in this context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A coin always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... Harry --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: > From: David Andrews > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM > Why do people think it is okay to > touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted > adults. I have thought about this a lot and have > concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class > as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as > we are semi-helpless and need assistance. > > Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully > functional, rights-holding adults. > > Dave > > At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: > > a couple of things that were interesting > were the concept of space. > > I find so much that people will grap you > and push you to redirect > > you; something you would clearly not do to a > sighted individual. I > > wonder what logical reason > people have cross their minds to make > it > > ok. to do something like that. > > > > As for people identifying > themselves; some people do a rather good > > job of saying where I've met them ( > that is those who don't screw > > up my name > lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I > would actually > > hold a conversation with someone for a couple of > minutes and within > > this conversation I could figure out what > project they had, what > > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to > successfully id the > > person. So the only way I > think this relates back, is sometimes > > you just have to kind of make a > person talk a bit and you'll > > probably find out who it is if you have time to. > > > > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez > wrote: > > > Hello All. > > > I have not been following this thread faithfully, > however, I just > > > schemed through and found some very interesting > questions that are > > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a > psychology major at Emory > > > University, where research is our middle name! > Thus, some of this > > > facial expression experiments have been conducted > here. but I will > > > just talk about a very classic experiment > by Paul Ekman. > > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures > from all around the > > > world. He took clips of those videos and > classified the facial > > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the > face were used to make > > > those expressions. As he watched more and more > clipse he determined a > > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across > cultures who had never met > > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to > the outside world, > > > and who had radically different customs and > traditions. > > > He then took pictures of different faces and > asked others what emotion > > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He > discovered that for > > > the most part most people could tell what the > picture was showing. > > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which > are: > > > Anger > > > Disgust > > > Fear > > > Happiness > > > Sadness > > > Surprise > > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, > contempt, pride, > > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, > satisfaction, sensory > > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All > this is to say, that > > > facial expression are not cultural or learned > behavior, but rather > > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face > reflect at the very > > > least these emotions that I listed. The only > difference is that we are > > > not readily conscious of how we make these face > of guilt for example. > > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and > practice looking ashamed, it > > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain > lowering of the brows, we > > > have to think about it and consciously make an > effort if we want to > > > become proficient at making these expressions at > will. I am a > > > performer as well, and one of the big things I > work on is facial > > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the > audience what I'm > > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And > it is a valid skill > > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a > little bit that anger we > > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a > little long. > > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are > pissed off, it will > > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not > show any facial > > > expression or significantly lack body language, > this is not do to > > > being blind and not having learned expressions, > it is rather a > > > personality thing, and it probably just means > that you are much more > > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than > most people. > > > Mary > > > > > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth > wrote: > > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind > people are socially awkwad if > > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you > that explaining is basically a > > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought > questions to my mind....is it > > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to > never have it to lose? Things > > >> like > > >> this and if one has been sheltered either > sighted or not they are going to > > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy > had never really been around > > >> people without knowing how to act. > > >> > > >> > -Teal > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > > >> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >> > > >> > > >>>I hope you are not implying that all > people that have been blind since > > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have > lots of sighted friends, but > > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to > act. Also when people concitter > > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that > they see absolootly nothing. I have > > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not > enough to do much with and when > > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't > bother with attempting to explain the > > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just > confuses people. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > > >>> > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 > PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> well honestly i have only been around > one guy totally blind since birth > > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he > was happy or excited he would do a > > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against > someone and would giggle like a child > > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was > sheltered his whole life by his parents > > >>>> since he was adopted and the only > blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this > > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. > > >>>> > > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can > see like looking through a straw > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be > a priest. He is probably my hero > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the > future. > > >>>> > > >>>> > -Teal > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>> From: "Jedi" > > >>>> To: > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 > PM > > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Teal, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys > you're hanging with, but I don't notice > > >>>>> too much difference between those > born blind versus those who had sight > > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, > there is no significant personality > > >>>>> differences between the two. Life > experiences may vary, and life > > >>>>> experiences shape our > perceptions, but not so much so that it > > >>>>> fundamentally changes an > individual on such a deep level. That is, > > >>>>> unless they let it. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Respectfully, > > >>>>> Jedi > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Original message: > > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I > am sorry but that is hard to > > >>>>>> believe....maybe > > >>>>>> the facial expression you do > show is presumibly unfriendly? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> As for them not talking to > you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > > >>>>>> alittle > > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i > oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and > > >>>>>> i say > > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont > just see darkness. This is probably a > > >>>>>> psychological factor in that > i see a type of gray scale all the time > > >>>>>> and in > > >>>>>> department stores it seems to > be lighter because of the numerous > > >>>>>> florescent > > >>>>>> lighting but other times i > cannot really tell for sure whether i am in > > >>>>>> a > > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you > been blind or visually impaired since > > >>>>>> birth? I > > >>>>>> have found a slight > difference in personality characteristics in > > >>>>>> people > > >>>>>> blind since birth and those > that have become blind in the middle of > > >>>>>> life. > > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of > people who wear the dark shades but never > > >>>>>> personally met anyone that > does. Can i ask you why you choose to do > > >>>>>> so? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > -Teal > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > > >>>>>> To: "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 8:21 PM > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just > think I am angry or something based off my > > >>>>>>> facial > > >>>>>>> expression. I am just > neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else > > >>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. > Some people don't like it when I don't > > >>>>>>> make/keep > > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes > people don't talk to me, because they think I > > >>>>>>> am > > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do > you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > > >>>>>>> affects others reaction > to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless > body language create a lot of oukword > > >>>>>>> situations. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message > ----- > > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > > >>>>>>> To: "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September > 20, 2009 9:00 PM > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have > had vision before but my eye movement via TBI > > >>>>>>>> isnt > > >>>>>>>> the best however > people say through my facial expressions and > > >>>>>>>> ability > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>> look in the direction > of the person thanks to depth perception > > >>>>>>>> people > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> say > > >>>>>>>> i dont even look > blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person > > >>>>>>>> looks like but i > believe all of these reflexes you are describing > > >>>>>>>> comes > > >>>>>>>> naturally from your > environment and maturation during infancy. We > > >>>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> actually talking > about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing > and walking and talking is a distinct > > >>>>>>>> developmental > > >>>>>>>> stage according to > piaget. Some say we learn these through > > >>>>>>>> environment > > >>>>>>>> and social > interaction while others say it is a specific cognative > > >>>>>>>> change > > >>>>>>>> in our biological > being. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that > it is a very interesting question and this > > >>>>>>>> topic > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>> a personal interest. > As for showing the world when you are pissed > > >>>>>>>> off > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> or > > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i > dont think you learn from actually seeing other > > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to > an action. I believe you learn these emotions > > >>>>>>>> through personality > development of what actions give you these > > >>>>>>>> feelings, > > >>>>>>>> then these feelings > are visually portrayed naturally. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on > anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > > >>>>>>>> question...i am a > social work/psychology major > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > -Teal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original > Message ----- > > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. > Lininger" > > >>>>>>>> To: "National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Teal, > > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. > Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > > >>>>>>>>> muscle control > over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at > > >>>>>>>>> other > > >>>>>>>>> people, eye > contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for > a person to never make eye contact, and that it's > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> more > disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly > and > > >>>>>>>>> never > > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm > afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat > related, and I'd be curious to know what the > > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and > sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > > >>>>>>>>> little ground > work for the more general question, so bare with me. > > >>>>>>>>> I've > > >>>>>>>>> known for some > time that my emotions and moods are communicated > > >>>>>>>>> visually, at > least sometimes. But I had something happen that > > >>>>>>>>> actually > > >>>>>>>>> got me curious > about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We > > >>>>>>>>> had a > > >>>>>>>>> router go down in > a data center at a company I had been working for > > >>>>>>>>> a > > >>>>>>>>> few months ago. > I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > > >>>>>>>>> everything > working, and that router went down at about 4 am and > > >>>>>>>>> took > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> entire company > off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room > > >>>>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>> one of the first > things the guy driving me to the data center said > > >>>>>>>>> was, > > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you > look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > > >>>>>>>>> someone." I > hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I > > >>>>>>>>> was. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware > of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried > > >>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and > ready for another day despite the promise of yet > > >>>>>>>>> more > > >>>>>>>>> problems. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> After this, I > became curious about exactly how expressive or not I > > >>>>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>>> with body > language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > > >>>>>>>>> known me for a > while, mainly family members about it and they all > > >>>>>>>>> said I > > >>>>>>>>> was in fact > expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> provided a > running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my > > >>>>>>>>> face > > >>>>>>>>> was doing while > conversing with people at her house. So, here's my > > >>>>>>>>> question. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I always thought > that at least to a point people learned these > > >>>>>>>>> expressions and > that mostly by observing those around them and > > >>>>>>>>> learning > > >>>>>>>>> what they meant. > I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't > > >>>>>>>>> work > > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I > could even understand certain reflexive > > >>>>>>>>> expressions. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> For > > >>>>>>>>> example, > stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I > > >>>>>>>>> thought > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> more detailed > stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with > > >>>>>>>>> certain > > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that > sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing > > >>>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see > others doing these things and never have been able > > >>>>>>>>> to, > > >>>>>>>>> how would I have > possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been > > >>>>>>>>> done > > >>>>>>>>> regarding such > things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking > the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically > > >>>>>>>>> taught > > >>>>>>>>> those while I > didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas > > >>>>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>>>> what governs what > visual cues are natural or learned in spite of > > >>>>>>>>> lack of > > >>>>>>>>> vision and which > must be picked up visually? > > >>>>>>>>> - -- > > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The > condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > > >>>>>>>>> body's natural > desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > > >>>>>>>>> who desperately > deserves it. > > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. > Lininger, > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG > v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > > >>>>>>>>> > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > > >>>>>>>>> > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > > >>>>>>>>> > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > > >>>>>>>>> > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > > >>>>>>>>> > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x > > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > >>>>> B > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Email services provided by the > System Access Mobile Network. Visit > > >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more > about accessibility anywhere. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>> nabs-l: > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mary Fernandez > > > Emory University 2012 > > > P.O. Box 123056 > > > Atlanta Ga. > > > 30322 > > > Phone: 732-857-7004 > > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we > understand that > > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > > > President Barack Obama > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, > version of virus signature database 4452 (20090924) > __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 13:57:36 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:57:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com><12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> <35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> Message-ID: <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina and violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >I don't think their friends were doing that because they were homosexuals. >It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. > > If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were > friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your roommates' > sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once > again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of > college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. > > Just my thoughts, > meghan > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 14:16:37 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:16:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> <35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909240716i4a62da4ex5692e355dbc7666f@mail.gmail.com> THat's extremely offensive and inappropriate. I"m serious. You don't have to draw inappropriate stuff to express how you feel about stuff. I am proud to be straight as an arrow and not ashamed to admit it in public, but do I go around saying I like whatever? I don't think so. Also, elaborating on Arielle's post, I think teachers are notorious for having such expectations on blind people because they need them to be passive and obedient. This reminds me of something that I was taught in AP English. If anybody's heard of Chomsky, there's something he said about obedience being the way the world works. If you're not passive enough, he says, you could lose your job and place in school. Beth On 9/24/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina and > violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and > alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Meghan Whalen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>I don't think their friends were doing that because they were homosexuals. >>It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. >> >> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your roommates' >> >> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> meghan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From thisischris89 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 14:26:14 2009 From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christoper Kchao) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:26:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com><12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643><35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: It was never relevant and still isn't. That just happens to be the context for the things drawn on the walls, etc. There was entirely no need to miss the point altogether. Oh well, back to the topic. *smiles* -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:58 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina and violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >I don't think their friends were doing that because they were homosexuals. >It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. > > If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were > friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your roommates' > sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once > again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of > college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. > > Just my thoughts, > meghan > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai l.com From mewhalen at wisc.edu Thu Sep 24 16:20:09 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:20:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Note of Caution References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> <35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: I know I'm not a moderator or anything on this list, but I do want to take a moment to caution everyone on this list that every message is archived and available for reference to non-members. This should be a place we feel safe discussing issues relating to blindness, but it is also important to remember there is no insurance that things on this list stay on the list. Please remember this before sending messages. Thanks, Meghan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina > and violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and > alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Meghan Whalen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>I don't think their friends were doing that because they were homosexuals. >>It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. >> >> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >> roommates' sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the >> doors. Once again, I think these were just college students being like a >> lot of college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >> >> Just my thoughts, >> meghan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40wisc.edu > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 17:06:44 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:06:44 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] From the nabs membership committee Message-ID: <409c235c0909241006y6ef6bf4fnf7c52be37f225239@mail.gmail.com> Dear Nabs membership We would like to thank everybody who could attend the membership discussion regarding elections. We greatly value your participation and enthusiasm; for without it, we would not have an organized student division. As Chairs of the membership committee, we would like to initiate a topic discussion series including topics that would most interest you, that we discuss via conference call. Below we have listed five topics that may or may not peek your interest. If these topics sound good,we’ll look further into making them happen. If they don’t Jump off of the page and grab you, and you might have suggestions for topics that might be of particular interest to blind students, please let us know, and we’ll do our best to make it happen. The nabs membership committee is excited and looks forward to getting the opportunity to work with all of you, and wants this exciting series of thought-provoking and interactive discussions to be built by and for you all as students. Also, if you may have interest, we plan on having guest speakers to facilitate the discussions. Thank you in advance for your constructive feed back and thoughtful suggestions; as our goal is to Find a way to get the membership communicating on subjects that we would all like to learn and discuss more about. One final thing; if you would like to assist in recruiting guest speakers for the conference call series, or if you would like to help out with the membership committee please feel free to contact either Janice or myself, Thanks. Contact info: Janice Jeang- Janice.jeang at gmail.com Darian Smith- dsmithnfb at gmail.com Suggested topics External outreach/relations: Service learning. How can your local division/chapter get involved in the community? What are the Benefits of getting involved? Why ought we get involved (Social responsibility, Perception-changing?) What is Service learning? Students in Sports; how the individual student can get involved in sports and recreational activities. What kinds of sports can blind people get involved with? How can I get involved? Why is involvement in sports important for an individual (blind or not)? Dating and relationships Fashion (what’s cool to wear on a date) Proper conduct and helpful hints (how to conduct one’s self/techniques one can use at clubs, restaurants and theaters) Career; I can really do that?! What kinds of unique jobs do blind people hold? How did they get there? How did they show that they could be successful in their job? Blind Parenting? >From Hospital to home; how did they do it? (How does one perceive the blind parent in the hospital?) How does one insure their child is safe, happy, and healthy? (Alternative techniques for feeding, changing, monitoring your child… and more!) How does one navigate general public perception of the blind parent? From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 18:34:10 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:34:10 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Community Service? Message-ID: <409c235c0909241134k62e8a918n5d3622432f3f3124@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, Recently, I just completed an AmeriCorps year of service. Within that time, I was lucky enough to meet alot of great people, and be exposed to alot of the country, it's beauty, culture, and community needs. i was fortunate enough to have been able to be a part of the solution as it related to addressing some of those community needs, and I was also very fortunate to get the oppertunity to change what it means to be blind to some people on some level. twards the end of my termm, I started to think about where this fits within our movement. I am interested to get people's views on this. Also, what do people feel about getting involved doing community service work? do people already do this on their own? do people do this with church groups or chapters? I look forward to hearing people's thoughts on the matter. Best, Darian Smith From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 18:57:24 2009 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:57:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> It may be beside the immediate point, but is certainly relevant. Attributing the inappropriate drawings to the fact that the roommates were gay is completely absurd. Sure, the inappropriate content may have been different inappropriate content had the roommates been heterosexual, but it would have been inappropriate content just the same. As a minority population that is often discriminated against, misunderstood, and mischaracterized, I find it odd that some among us think it respectable to do the same to other groups. Believe me, there are plenty of college apartments with heterosexual content that would offend many scrawled on their walls. It bothered me when I first saw that message, but I decided to let it go. Now that we're here, Meghan is 100% right. Here here and two thumbs up! More to the immediate point, I don't think filthy apartments are any indicator of social awkwardness or akin to eye poking, rocking, etc. While I agree wholeheartedly with Arielle on the issue, I think it is also useful to realize that social norms apply to the blind as well as the sighted. I don't think it holds water to say that sighted people have their own idiosyncratic things about them so it is OK for blind people to rock. Social norms matter. How you look and present yourself matters. It is certainly inappropriate to label every undesirable behavior of a blind child, e.g. obstinacy or egocentricity as a symptom of social dysfunction, but I think it useful and appropriate for parents to discourage behaviors, commonly called blindisms, which only serve to perpetuate societies views on blindness and to further set apart the blind individual as different. Sean From blind.subscriber at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 19:13:33 2009 From: blind.subscriber at gmail.com (Jason Mandarino) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:13:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Librarian In-Reply-To: <7202614FF21C47C49AC57576FC3E67FF@Rufus> References: <7202614FF21C47C49AC57576FC3E67FF@Rufus> Message-ID: I was curious if anyone would know of a blind librarian that would interact with their libraries card catalogue system? I am trying to find an accessible card catalogue that I could work within. Thanks, From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 19:20:30 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:20:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> References: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909241220k629d05b1p2d425197b9b93f20@mail.gmail.com> Right on. But how should parents go about it? WHat about the overuse of punishment for moving one's head back and forth or rocking and eye poking? WHat about the dangerous consequence of mental illness as a result of the lack of sociality and social skills? ANy thoughts on those? Beth On 9/24/09, Sean Whalen wrote: > It may be beside the immediate point, but is certainly relevant. Attributing > the inappropriate drawings to the fact that the roommates were gay is > completely absurd. Sure, the inappropriate content may have been different > inappropriate content had the roommates been heterosexual, but it would have > been inappropriate content just the same. > > As a minority population that is often discriminated against, misunderstood, > and mischaracterized, I find it odd that some among us think it respectable > to do the same to other groups. > > Believe me, there are plenty of college apartments with heterosexual content > that would offend many scrawled on their walls. > > It bothered me when I first saw that message, but I decided to let it go. > > Now that we're here, Meghan is 100% right. Here here and two thumbs up! > > More to the immediate point, I don't think filthy apartments are any > indicator of social awkwardness or akin to eye poking, rocking, etc. While I > agree wholeheartedly with Arielle on the issue, I think it is also useful to > realize that social norms apply to the blind as well as the sighted. I don't > think it holds water to say that sighted people have their own idiosyncratic > things about them so it is OK for blind people to rock. Social norms matter. > How you look and present yourself matters. It is certainly inappropriate to > label every undesirable behavior of a blind child, e.g. obstinacy or > egocentricity as a symptom of social dysfunction, but I think it useful and > appropriate for parents to discourage behaviors, commonly called blindisms, > which only serve to perpetuate societies views on blindness and to further > set apart the blind individual as different. > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 20:55:09 2009 From: alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com (alena roberts) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:55:09 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Community Service? In-Reply-To: <409c235c0909241134k62e8a918n5d3622432f3f3124@mail.gmail.com> References: <409c235c0909241134k62e8a918n5d3622432f3f3124@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3af83dbb0909241355o2995a3bdk6560b30a87f57203@mail.gmail.com> Darian, I too did a year with Americorps VISTA, and I think that giving back to our communities is one of the best ways to change the minds of the people around us. I really believe that if the people in our communities see us participating as volunteers, they'll realize that the blind are far more capable then they probably thought. I applaud you, and I recommend to everyone on this list to look into doing a year with Americorps. The pay is horrible, but the impact you make is so worth it. -- Alena Roberts Blog: http://www.blindgal.com/ From kramc11 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 21:07:11 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:07:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have lots of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just seems like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people than sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than anyone else. I would appreciate your thoughts, Mark From thisischris89 at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 21:43:12 2009 From: thisischris89 at gmail.com (Christoper Kchao) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:43:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> References: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> Message-ID: Hi, It was not my intent to personally call anyone out in my last post. In fact, I agree with Meghan that the orientation of the roommates has little to do with whether or not people drew inappropriate things on the walls. More to the point, I'm tempted to think that Teal's word were more than likely misinterpreted or poorly chosen, and he simply brought up the nature of his roommates to further shed light on what exactly the inappropriate phrases/drawings involved. I apologize if i was at all unclear regarding the intent of my message, given the brief nature in which it was written. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sean Whalen Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:57 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff It may be beside the immediate point, but is certainly relevant. Attributing the inappropriate drawings to the fact that the roommates were gay is completely absurd. Sure, the inappropriate content may have been different inappropriate content had the roommates been heterosexual, but it would have been inappropriate content just the same. As a minority population that is often discriminated against, misunderstood, and mischaracterized, I find it odd that some among us think it respectable to do the same to other groups. Believe me, there are plenty of college apartments with heterosexual content that would offend many scrawled on their walls. It bothered me when I first saw that message, but I decided to let it go. Now that we're here, Meghan is 100% right. Here here and two thumbs up! More to the immediate point, I don't think filthy apartments are any indicator of social awkwardness or akin to eye poking, rocking, etc. While I agree wholeheartedly with Arielle on the issue, I think it is also useful to realize that social norms apply to the blind as well as the sighted. I don't think it holds water to say that sighted people have their own idiosyncratic things about them so it is OK for blind people to rock. Social norms matter. How you look and present yourself matters. It is certainly inappropriate to label every undesirable behavior of a blind child, e.g. obstinacy or egocentricity as a symptom of social dysfunction, but I think it useful and appropriate for parents to discourage behaviors, commonly called blindisms, which only serve to perpetuate societies views on blindness and to further set apart the blind individual as different. Sean _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai l.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 24 22:04:30 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:04:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <378277.75275.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010a01ca3d62$fdf34b70$0401a8c0@Serene> Yes, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The physical focus with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are not given in this context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A coin always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... Harry --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: > From: David Andrews > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM > Why do people think it is okay to > touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted > adults. I have thought about this a lot and have > concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class > as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as > we are semi-helpless and need assistance. > > Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully > functional, rights-holding adults. > > Dave > > At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: > > a couple of things that were interesting > were the concept of space. > > I find so much that people will grap you > and push you to redirect > > you; something you would clearly not do to a > sighted individual. I > > wonder what logical reason > people have cross their minds to make > it > > ok. to do something like that. > > > > As for people identifying > themselves; some people do a rather good > > job of saying where I've met them ( > that is those who don't screw > > up my name > lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I > would actually > > hold a conversation with someone for a couple of > minutes and within > > this conversation I could figure out what > project they had, what > > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to > successfully id the > > person. So the only way I > think this relates back, is sometimes > > you just have to kind of make a > person talk a bit and you'll > > probably find out who it is if you have time to. > > > > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez > wrote: > > > Hello All. > > > I have not been following this thread faithfully, > however, I just > > > schemed through and found some very interesting > questions that are > > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a > psychology major at Emory > > > University, where research is our middle name! > Thus, some of this > > > facial expression experiments have been conducted > here. but I will > > > just talk about a very classic experiment > by Paul Ekman. > > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures > from all around the > > > world. He took clips of those videos and > classified the facial > > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the > face were used to make > > > those expressions. As he watched more and more > clipse he determined a > > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across > cultures who had never met > > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to > the outside world, > > > and who had radically different customs and > traditions. > > > He then took pictures of different faces and > asked others what emotion > > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He > discovered that for > > > the most part most people could tell what the > picture was showing. > > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which > are: > > > Anger > > > Disgust > > > Fear > > > Happiness > > > Sadness > > > Surprise > > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, > contempt, pride, > > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, > satisfaction, sensory > > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All > this is to say, that > > > facial expression are not cultural or learned > behavior, but rather > > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face > reflect at the very > > > least these emotions that I listed. The only > difference is that we are > > > not readily conscious of how we make these face > of guilt for example. > > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and > practice looking ashamed, it > > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain > lowering of the brows, we > > > have to think about it and consciously make an > effort if we want to > > > become proficient at making these expressions at > will. I am a > > > performer as well, and one of the big things I > work on is facial > > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the > audience what I'm > > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And > it is a valid skill > > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a > little bit that anger we > > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a > little long. > > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are > pissed off, it will > > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not > show any facial > > > expression or significantly lack body language, > this is not do to > > > being blind and not having learned expressions, > it is rather a > > > personality thing, and it probably just means > that you are much more > > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than > most people. > > > Mary > > > > > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth > wrote: > > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind > people are socially awkwad if > > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you > that explaining is basically a > > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought > questions to my mind....is it > > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to > never have it to lose? Things > > >> like > > >> this and if one has been sheltered either > sighted or not they are going to > > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy > had never really been around > > >> people without knowing how to act. > > >> > > >> > -Teal > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > > >> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >> > > >> > > >>>I hope you are not implying that all > people that have been blind since > > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have > lots of sighted friends, but > > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to > act. Also when people concitter > > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that > they see absolootly nothing. I have > > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not > enough to do much with and when > > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't > bother with attempting to explain the > > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just > confuses people. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > > >>> > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 > PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> well honestly i have only been around > one guy totally blind since birth > > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he > was happy or excited he would do a > > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against > someone and would giggle like a child > > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was > sheltered his whole life by his parents > > >>>> since he was adopted and the only > blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this > > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. > > >>>> > > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can > see like looking through a straw > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be > a priest. He is probably my hero > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the > future. > > >>>> > > >>>> > -Teal > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>> From: "Jedi" > > >>>> To: > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 > PM > > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Teal, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys > you're hanging with, but I don't notice > > >>>>> too much difference between those > born blind versus those who had sight > > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, > there is no significant personality > > >>>>> differences between the two. Life > experiences may vary, and life > > >>>>> experiences shape our > perceptions, but not so much so that it > > >>>>> fundamentally changes an > individual on such a deep level. That is, > > >>>>> unless they let it. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Respectfully, > > >>>>> Jedi > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Original message: > > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I > am sorry but that is hard to > > >>>>>> believe....maybe > > >>>>>> the facial expression you do > show is presumibly unfriendly? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> As for them not talking to > you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > > >>>>>> alittle > > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i > oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and > > >>>>>> i say > > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont > just see darkness. This is probably a > > >>>>>> psychological factor in that > i see a type of gray scale all the time > > >>>>>> and in > > >>>>>> department stores it seems to > be lighter because of the numerous > > >>>>>> florescent > > >>>>>> lighting but other times i > cannot really tell for sure whether i am in > > >>>>>> a > > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you > been blind or visually impaired since > > >>>>>> birth? I > > >>>>>> have found a slight > difference in personality characteristics in > > >>>>>> people > > >>>>>> blind since birth and those > that have become blind in the middle of > > >>>>>> life. > > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of > people who wear the dark shades but never > > >>>>>> personally met anyone that > does. Can i ask you why you choose to do > > >>>>>> so? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > -Teal > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > > >>>>>> To: "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 8:21 PM > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just > think I am angry or something based off my > > >>>>>>> facial > > >>>>>>> expression. I am just > neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else > > >>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. > Some people don't like it when I don't > > >>>>>>> make/keep > > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes > people don't talk to me, because they think I > > >>>>>>> am > > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do > you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > > >>>>>>> affects others reaction > to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless > body language create a lot of oukword > > >>>>>>> situations. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message > ----- > > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > > >>>>>>> To: "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September > 20, 2009 9:00 PM > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have > had vision before but my eye movement via TBI > > >>>>>>>> isnt > > >>>>>>>> the best however > people say through my facial expressions and > > >>>>>>>> ability > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>> look in the direction > of the person thanks to depth perception > > >>>>>>>> people > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> say > > >>>>>>>> i dont even look > blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person > > >>>>>>>> looks like but i > believe all of these reflexes you are describing > > >>>>>>>> comes > > >>>>>>>> naturally from your > environment and maturation during infancy. We > > >>>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> actually talking > about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing > and walking and talking is a distinct > > >>>>>>>> developmental > > >>>>>>>> stage according to > piaget. Some say we learn these through > > >>>>>>>> environment > > >>>>>>>> and social > interaction while others say it is a specific cognative > > >>>>>>>> change > > >>>>>>>> in our biological > being. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that > it is a very interesting question and this > > >>>>>>>> topic > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>> a personal interest. > As for showing the world when you are pissed > > >>>>>>>> off > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> or > > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i > dont think you learn from actually seeing other > > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to > an action. I believe you learn these emotions > > >>>>>>>> through personality > development of what actions give you these > > >>>>>>>> feelings, > > >>>>>>>> then these feelings > are visually portrayed naturally. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on > anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > > >>>>>>>> question...i am a > social work/psychology major > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > -Teal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original > Message ----- > > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. > Lininger" > > >>>>>>>> To: "National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Teal, > > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. > Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > > >>>>>>>>> muscle control > over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at > > >>>>>>>>> other > > >>>>>>>>> people, eye > contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for > a person to never make eye contact, and that it's > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> more > disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly > and > > >>>>>>>>> never > > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm > afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat > related, and I'd be curious to know what the > > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and > sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > > >>>>>>>>> little ground > work for the more general question, so bare with me. > > >>>>>>>>> I've > > >>>>>>>>> known for some > time that my emotions and moods are communicated > > >>>>>>>>> visually, at > least sometimes. But I had something happen that > > >>>>>>>>> actually > > >>>>>>>>> got me curious > about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We > > >>>>>>>>> had a > > >>>>>>>>> router go down in > a data center at a company I had been working for > > >>>>>>>>> a > > >>>>>>>>> few months ago. > I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > > >>>>>>>>> everything > working, and that router went down at about 4 am and > > >>>>>>>>> took > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> entire company > off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room > > >>>>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>> one of the first > things the guy driving me to the data center said > > >>>>>>>>> was, > > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you > look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > > >>>>>>>>> someone." I > hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I > > >>>>>>>>> was. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware > of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried > > >>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and > ready for another day despite the promise of yet > > >>>>>>>>> more > > >>>>>>>>> problems. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> After this, I > became curious about exactly how expressive or not I > > >>>>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>>> with body > language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > > >>>>>>>>> known me for a > while, mainly family members about it and they all > > >>>>>>>>> said I > > >>>>>>>>> was in fact > expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> provided a > running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my > > >>>>>>>>> face > > >>>>>>>>> was doing while > conversing with people at her house. So, here's my > > >>>>>>>>> question. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I always thought > that at least to a point people learned these > > >>>>>>>>> expressions and > that mostly by observing those around them and > > >>>>>>>>> learning > > >>>>>>>>> what they meant. > I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't > > >>>>>>>>> work > > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I > could even understand certain reflexive > > >>>>>>>>> expressions. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> For > > >>>>>>>>> example, > stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I > > >>>>>>>>> thought > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> more detailed > stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with > > >>>>>>>>> certain > > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that > sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing > > >>>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see > others doing these things and never have been able > > >>>>>>>>> to, > > >>>>>>>>> how would I have > possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been > > >>>>>>>>> done > > >>>>>>>>> regarding such > things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking > the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically > > >>>>>>>>> taught > > >>>>>>>>> those while I > didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas > > >>>>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>>>> what governs what > visual cues are natural or learned in spite of > > >>>>>>>>> lack of > > >>>>>>>>> vision and which > must be picked up visually? > > >>>>>>>>> - -- > > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The > condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > > >>>>>>>>> body's natural > desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > > >>>>>>>>> who desperately > deserves it. > > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. > Lininger, > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG > v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > > >>>>>>>>> > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > > >>>>>>>>> > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > > >>>>>>>>> > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > > >>>>>>>>> > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > > >>>>>>>>> > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x > > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > >>>>> B > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Email services provided by the > System Access Mobile Network. Visit > > >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more > about accessibility anywhere. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>> nabs-l: > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mary Fernandez > > > Emory University 2012 > > > P.O. Box 123056 > > > Atlanta Ga. > > > 30322 > > > Phone: 732-857-7004 > > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we > understand that > > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > > > President Barack Obama > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, > version of virus signature database 4452 (20090924) > __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Thu Sep 24 22:12:04 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:12:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <378277.75275.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <011201ca3d64$0c7664b0$0401a8c0@Serene> I forgot to say ... Once in college, my best friend and I were going to the cafeteria and he saw some stranger walking towards me with his/her arms out as if he/she wanted to guide me, without even saying a word to me. Instead of letting me find this out, my friend politely but sternly told the stranger that we were ok, implying, "How dare you try touching my friend to guide her without even talking to her! That simply isn't right!" The person eventually left us alone.! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The physical focus with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are not given in this context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A coin always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... Harry --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: > From: David Andrews > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM > Why do people think it is okay to > touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted > adults. I have thought about this a lot and have > concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class > as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as > we are semi-helpless and need assistance. > > Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully > functional, rights-holding adults. > > Dave > > At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: > > a couple of things that were interesting > were the concept of space. > > I find so much that people will grap you > and push you to redirect > > you; something you would clearly not do to a > sighted individual. I > > wonder what logical reason > people have cross their minds to make > it > > ok. to do something like that. > > > > As for people identifying > themselves; some people do a rather good > > job of saying where I've met them ( > that is those who don't screw > > up my name > lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I > would actually > > hold a conversation with someone for a couple of > minutes and within > > this conversation I could figure out what > project they had, what > > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to > successfully id the > > person. So the only way I > think this relates back, is sometimes > > you just have to kind of make a > person talk a bit and you'll > > probably find out who it is if you have time to. > > > > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez > wrote: > > > Hello All. > > > I have not been following this thread faithfully, > however, I just > > > schemed through and found some very interesting > questions that are > > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a > psychology major at Emory > > > University, where research is our middle name! > Thus, some of this > > > facial expression experiments have been conducted > here. but I will > > > just talk about a very classic experiment > by Paul Ekman. > > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures > from all around the > > > world. He took clips of those videos and > classified the facial > > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the > face were used to make > > > those expressions. As he watched more and more > clipse he determined a > > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across > cultures who had never met > > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to > the outside world, > > > and who had radically different customs and > traditions. > > > He then took pictures of different faces and > asked others what emotion > > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He > discovered that for > > > the most part most people could tell what the > picture was showing. > > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which > are: > > > Anger > > > Disgust > > > Fear > > > Happiness > > > Sadness > > > Surprise > > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, > contempt, pride, > > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, > satisfaction, sensory > > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All > this is to say, that > > > facial expression are not cultural or learned > behavior, but rather > > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face > reflect at the very > > > least these emotions that I listed. The only > difference is that we are > > > not readily conscious of how we make these face > of guilt for example. > > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and > practice looking ashamed, it > > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain > lowering of the brows, we > > > have to think about it and consciously make an > effort if we want to > > > become proficient at making these expressions at > will. I am a > > > performer as well, and one of the big things I > work on is facial > > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the > audience what I'm > > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And > it is a valid skill > > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a > little bit that anger we > > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a > little long. > > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are > pissed off, it will > > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not > show any facial > > > expression or significantly lack body language, > this is not do to > > > being blind and not having learned expressions, > it is rather a > > > personality thing, and it probably just means > that you are much more > > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than > most people. > > > Mary > > > > > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth > wrote: > > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind > people are socially awkwad if > > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you > that explaining is basically a > > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought > questions to my mind....is it > > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to > never have it to lose? Things > > >> like > > >> this and if one has been sheltered either > sighted or not they are going to > > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy > had never really been around > > >> people without knowing how to act. > > >> > > >> > -Teal > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students > mailing list" > > >> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >> > > >> > > >>>I hope you are not implying that all > people that have been blind since > > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have > lots of sighted friends, but > > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to > act. Also when people concitter > > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that > they see absolootly nothing. I have > > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not > enough to do much with and when > > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't > bother with attempting to explain the > > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just > confuses people. > > >>> > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > >>> To: "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > > >>> > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 > PM > > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: > What would you do? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> well honestly i have only been around > one guy totally blind since birth > > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he > was happy or excited he would do a > > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against > someone and would giggle like a child > > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was > sheltered his whole life by his parents > > >>>> since he was adopted and the only > blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this > > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. > > >>>> > > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can > see like looking through a straw > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be > a priest. He is probably my hero > > >>>> and > > >>>> > > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the > future. > > >>>> > > >>>> > -Teal > > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>> From: "Jedi" > > >>>> To: > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 > PM > > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> Teal, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys > you're hanging with, but I don't notice > > >>>>> too much difference between those > born blind versus those who had sight > > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, > there is no significant personality > > >>>>> differences between the two. Life > experiences may vary, and life > > >>>>> experiences shape our > perceptions, but not so much so that it > > >>>>> fundamentally changes an > individual on such a deep level. That is, > > >>>>> unless they let it. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Respectfully, > > >>>>> Jedi > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Original message: > > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I > am sorry but that is hard to > > >>>>>> believe....maybe > > >>>>>> the facial expression you do > show is presumibly unfriendly? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> As for them not talking to > you that is rediculus. The dark shades is > > >>>>>> alittle > > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i > oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and > > >>>>>> i say > > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont > just see darkness. This is probably a > > >>>>>> psychological factor in that > i see a type of gray scale all the time > > >>>>>> and in > > >>>>>> department stores it seems to > be lighter because of the numerous > > >>>>>> florescent > > >>>>>> lighting but other times i > cannot really tell for sure whether i am in > > >>>>>> a > > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you > been blind or visually impaired since > > >>>>>> birth? I > > >>>>>> have found a slight > difference in personality characteristics in > > >>>>>> people > > >>>>>> blind since birth and those > that have become blind in the middle of > > >>>>>> life. > > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of > people who wear the dark shades but never > > >>>>>> personally met anyone that > does. Can i ask you why you choose to do > > >>>>>> so? > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > -Teal > > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" > > > >>>>>> To: "National Association of > Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, > 2009 8:21 PM > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward > Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just > think I am angry or something based off my > > >>>>>>> facial > > >>>>>>> expression. I am just > neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else > > >>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. > Some people don't like it when I don't > > >>>>>>> make/keep > > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes > people don't talk to me, because they think I > > >>>>>>> am > > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do > you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time > > >>>>>>> affects others reaction > to you? In my experience my dark glasses and > > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless > body language create a lot of oukword > > >>>>>>> situations. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message > ----- > > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" > > > >>>>>>> To: "National Association > of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September > 20, 2009 9:00 PM > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have > had vision before but my eye movement via TBI > > >>>>>>>> isnt > > >>>>>>>> the best however > people say through my facial expressions and > > >>>>>>>> ability > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>> look in the direction > of the person thanks to depth perception > > >>>>>>>> people > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> say > > >>>>>>>> i dont even look > blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person > > >>>>>>>> looks like but i > believe all of these reflexes you are describing > > >>>>>>>> comes > > >>>>>>>> naturally from your > environment and maturation during infancy. We > > >>>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>> actually talking > about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like > > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing > and walking and talking is a distinct > > >>>>>>>> developmental > > >>>>>>>> stage according to > piaget. Some say we learn these through > > >>>>>>>> environment > > >>>>>>>> and social > interaction while others say it is a specific cognative > > >>>>>>>> change > > >>>>>>>> in our biological > being. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that > it is a very interesting question and this > > >>>>>>>> topic > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>> a personal interest. > As for showing the world when you are pissed > > >>>>>>>> off > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> or > > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i > dont think you learn from actually seeing other > > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to > an action. I believe you learn these emotions > > >>>>>>>> through personality > development of what actions give you these > > >>>>>>>> feelings, > > >>>>>>>> then these feelings > are visually portrayed naturally. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on > anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your > > >>>>>>>> question...i am a > social work/psychology major > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > -Teal > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> ----- Original > Message ----- > > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. > Lininger" > > >>>>>>>> To: "National > Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, > September 20, 2009 5:29 PM > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] > Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Teal, > > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. > Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had > > >>>>>>>>> muscle control > over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at > > >>>>>>>>> other > > >>>>>>>>> people, eye > contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's > > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for > a person to never make eye contact, and that it's > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> more > disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly > and > > >>>>>>>>> never > > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm > afraid I never learned the finer points though. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat > related, and I'd be curious to know what the > > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and > sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a > > >>>>>>>>> little ground > work for the more general question, so bare with me. > > >>>>>>>>> I've > > >>>>>>>>> known for some > time that my emotions and moods are communicated > > >>>>>>>>> visually, at > least sometimes. But I had something happen that > > >>>>>>>>> actually > > >>>>>>>>> got me curious > about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We > > >>>>>>>>> had a > > >>>>>>>>> router go down in > a data center at a company I had been working for > > >>>>>>>>> a > > >>>>>>>>> few months ago. > I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get > > >>>>>>>>> everything > working, and that router went down at about 4 am and > > >>>>>>>>> took > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> entire company > off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room > > >>>>>>>>> and > > >>>>>>>>> one of the first > things the guy driving me to the data center said > > >>>>>>>>> was, > > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you > look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill > > >>>>>>>>> someone." I > hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I > > >>>>>>>>> was. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware > of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried > > >>>>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and > ready for another day despite the promise of yet > > >>>>>>>>> more > > >>>>>>>>> problems. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> After this, I > became curious about exactly how expressive or not I > > >>>>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>>> with body > language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had > > >>>>>>>>> known me for a > while, mainly family members about it and they all > > >>>>>>>>> said I > > >>>>>>>>> was in fact > expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister > > >>>>>>>>> even > > >>>>>>>>> provided a > running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my > > >>>>>>>>> face > > >>>>>>>>> was doing while > conversing with people at her house. So, here's my > > >>>>>>>>> question. > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I always thought > that at least to a point people learned these > > >>>>>>>>> expressions and > that mostly by observing those around them and > > >>>>>>>>> learning > > >>>>>>>>> what they meant. > I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't > > >>>>>>>>> work > > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I > could even understand certain reflexive > > >>>>>>>>> expressions. > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> For > > >>>>>>>>> example, > stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I > > >>>>>>>>> thought > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> the > > >>>>>>>>> more detailed > stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with > > >>>>>>>>> certain > > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that > sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing > > >>>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see > others doing these things and never have been able > > >>>>>>>>> to, > > >>>>>>>>> how would I have > possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been > > >>>>>>>>> done > > >>>>>>>>> regarding such > things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as > > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking > the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically > > >>>>>>>>> taught > > >>>>>>>>> those while I > didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas > > >>>>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>>>> what governs what > visual cues are natural or learned in spite of > > >>>>>>>>> lack of > > >>>>>>>>> vision and which > must be picked up visually? > > >>>>>>>>> - -- > > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The > condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the > > >>>>>>>>> body's natural > desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone > > >>>>>>>>> who desperately > deserves it. > > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. > Lininger, > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG > v1.4.9 (MingW32) > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX > > >>>>>>>>> > DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV > > >>>>>>>>> > /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc > > >>>>>>>>> > sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW > > >>>>>>>>> > +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix > > >>>>>>>>> > 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= > > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x > > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP > SIGNATURE----- > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing > list > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, > change your list options or get your account info > > >>>>>>>> for > > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change > your list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your > list options or get your account info for > > >>>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > >>>>> B > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Email services provided by the > System Access Mobile Network. Visit > > >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more > about accessibility anywhere. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>>> nabs-l: > > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list > options or get your account info for > > >>>> nabs-l: > > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>> nabs-l mailing list > > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options > or get your account info for > > >>> nabs-l: > > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> nabs-l mailing list > > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or > get your account info for > > >> nabs-l: > > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mary Fernandez > > > Emory University 2012 > > > P.O. Box 123056 > > > Atlanta Ga. > > > 30322 > > > Phone: 732-857-7004 > > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we > understand that > > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > > > President Barack Obama > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > nabs-l mailing list > > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for > > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, > version of virus signature database 4452 (20090924) > __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 22:24:47 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:24:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> Message-ID: <4DA66D1A863B4B55B91585ED7B07A179@teal6e6857f643> first i am a girl and second...those things might've been inappropriate to say but you know what i felt threatened. Saying that i was saying because they were homosexual and thats not what i meant at all. I knew they had a part in it and was simply trying to put the perspective of what kind of people i lived with. Coming through the windows with cops following and everything else because they did not respect me at all. Sorry to those offended on the content of me clarrifying what was drawn but think about what you are saying to me as well. Like i said i felt very threatened by the remark that was put towards me. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christoper Kchao" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > Hi, > It was not my intent to personally call anyone out in my last post. In > fact, > I agree with Meghan that the orientation of the roommates has little to do > with whether or not people drew inappropriate things on the walls. More to > the point, I'm tempted to think that Teal's word were more than likely > misinterpreted or poorly chosen, and he simply brought up the nature of > his > roommates to further shed light on what exactly the inappropriate > phrases/drawings involved. I apologize if i was at all unclear regarding > the > intent of my message, given the brief nature in which it was written. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Sean Whalen > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:57 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > It may be beside the immediate point, but is certainly relevant. > Attributing > the inappropriate drawings to the fact that the roommates were gay is > completely absurd. Sure, the inappropriate content may have been different > inappropriate content had the roommates been heterosexual, but it would > have > been inappropriate content just the same. > > As a minority population that is often discriminated against, > misunderstood, > and mischaracterized, I find it odd that some among us think it > respectable > to do the same to other groups. > > Believe me, there are plenty of college apartments with heterosexual > content > that would offend many scrawled on their walls. > > It bothered me when I first saw that message, but I decided to let it go. > > Now that we're here, Meghan is 100% right. Here here and two thumbs up! > > More to the immediate point, I don't think filthy apartments are any > indicator of social awkwardness or akin to eye poking, rocking, etc. While > I > agree wholeheartedly with Arielle on the issue, I think it is also useful > to > realize that social norms apply to the blind as well as the sighted. I > don't > think it holds water to say that sighted people have their own > idiosyncratic > things about them so it is OK for blind people to rock. Social norms > matter. > How you look and present yourself matters. It is certainly inappropriate > to > label every undesirable behavior of a blind child, e.g. obstinacy or > egocentricity as a symptom of social dysfunction, but I think it useful > and > appropriate for parents to discourage behaviors, commonly called > blindisms, > which only serve to perpetuate societies views on blindness and to further > set apart the blind individual as different. > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 22:25:42 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:25:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Note of Caution References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com><12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643><35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka><64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <9253B44194AE494981B63C6EFE555AF6@teal6e6857f643> was this directed towards me? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:20 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Note of Caution >I know I'm not a moderator or anything on this list, but I do want to take >a moment to caution everyone on this list that every message is archived >and available for reference to non-members. > > This should be a place we feel safe discussing issues relating to > blindness, but it is also important to remember there is no insurance that > things on this list stay on the list. > > Please remember this before sending messages. > > Thanks, > Meghan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:57 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina >> and violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab >> and alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Meghan Whalen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> >>>I don't think their friends were doing that because they were >>>homosexuals. It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of >>>life. >>> >>> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >>> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >>> roommates' sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the >>> doors. Once again, I think these were just college students being like >>> a lot of college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> meghan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40wisc.edu >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 22:26:55 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:26:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com><12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643><35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka><64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> <4383d01d0909240716i4a62da4ex5692e355dbc7666f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6CF7854EB91E47848FEBE9C691DBEFDF@teal6e6857f643> oh my gosh i did not draw this stuff i was clarrifying what was drawn....will you people back off and quit even saying my name because i am about to just quit this list and report you all. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > THat's extremely offensive and inappropriate. I"m serious. You don't > have to draw inappropriate stuff to express how you feel about stuff. > I am proud to be straight as an arrow and not ashamed to admit it in > public, but do I go around saying I like whatever? I don't think so. > Also, elaborating on Arielle's post, I think teachers are notorious > for having such expectations on blind people because they need them to > be passive and obedient. This reminds me of something that I was > taught in AP English. If anybody's heard of Chomsky, there's > something he said about obedience being the way the world works. If > you're not passive enough, he says, you could lose your job and place > in school. > Beth > > On 9/24/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: >> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina >> and >> violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and >> alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Meghan Whalen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> >>>I don't think their friends were doing that because they were >>>homosexuals. >>>It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. >>> >>> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >>> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >>> roommates' >>> >>> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >>> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >>> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >>> >>> Just my thoughts, >>> meghan >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:21:15 2009 From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:21:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <6CF7854EB91E47848FEBE9C691DBEFDF@teal6e6857f643> References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> <35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> <4383d01d0909240716i4a62da4ex5692e355dbc7666f@mail.gmail.com> <6CF7854EB91E47848FEBE9C691DBEFDF@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <63af025c0909241621p1e0f16cnb26ea472f007a1ea@mail.gmail.com> Beth, Are you saying then that the blind should be passive for the sake of not troubling the water, so to speak? ... On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > oh my gosh i did not draw this stuff i was clarrifying what was > drawn....will you people back off and quit even saying my name because i am > about to just quit this list and report you all. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:16 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > > THat's extremely offensive and inappropriate. I"m serious. You don't >> have to draw inappropriate stuff to express how you feel about stuff. >> I am proud to be straight as an arrow and not ashamed to admit it in >> public, but do I go around saying I like whatever? I don't think so. >> Also, elaborating on Arielle's post, I think teachers are notorious >> for having such expectations on blind people because they need them to >> be passive and obedient. This reminds me of something that I was >> taught in AP English. If anybody's heard of Chomsky, there's >> something he said about obedience being the way the world works. If >> you're not passive enough, he says, you could lose your job and place >> in school. >> Beth >> >> On 9/24/09, Teal Bloodworth wrote: >> >>> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina >>> and >>> violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and >>> alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Meghan Whalen" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>> >>> >>> I don't think their friends were doing that because they were >>>> homosexuals. >>>> It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. >>>> >>>> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >>>> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >>>> roommates' >>>> >>>> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >>>> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >>>> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >>>> >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> meghan >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com > From jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Thu Sep 24 23:29:39 2009 From: jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com (Jess) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:29:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <926E9D8AE5F64CD99EDBFB39CACB5782@VALUED04C3B21F> Message-ID: <2BDD9B2CC89C45B7A2322FC854054540@Jessica> Christopher, If you can email me off list. A bunch of us students a conference call last night about getting an NFB Student group started in New York. And, I know you said you would be interested. My e-mail address in is jessica.trask.reagan at gmail.com Put New York Association of Blind Students in the subject. There is also an email list that I've started as well. NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.com If you need me to invite you to the group just let me know. Jessica ----- Original Message ----- NewYorkAssociationofBlindStudents-subscribe at yahoogroups.comFrom: "Christoper Kchao" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > Hi, > It was not my intent to personally call anyone out in my last post. In > fact, > I agree with Meghan that the orientation of the roommates has little to do > with whether or not people drew inappropriate things on the walls. More to > the point, I'm tempted to think that Teal's word were more than likely > misinterpreted or poorly chosen, and he simply brought up the nature of > his > roommates to further shed light on what exactly the inappropriate > phrases/drawings involved. I apologize if i was at all unclear regarding > the > intent of my message, given the brief nature in which it was written. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Sean Whalen > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:57 PM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > It may be beside the immediate point, but is certainly relevant. > Attributing > the inappropriate drawings to the fact that the roommates were gay is > completely absurd. Sure, the inappropriate content may have been different > inappropriate content had the roommates been heterosexual, but it would > have > been inappropriate content just the same. > > As a minority population that is often discriminated against, > misunderstood, > and mischaracterized, I find it odd that some among us think it > respectable > to do the same to other groups. > > Believe me, there are plenty of college apartments with heterosexual > content > that would offend many scrawled on their walls. > > It bothered me when I first saw that message, but I decided to let it go. > > Now that we're here, Meghan is 100% right. Here here and two thumbs up! > > More to the immediate point, I don't think filthy apartments are any > indicator of social awkwardness or akin to eye poking, rocking, etc. While > I > agree wholeheartedly with Arielle on the issue, I think it is also useful > to > realize that social norms apply to the blind as well as the sighted. I > don't > think it holds water to say that sighted people have their own > idiosyncratic > things about them so it is OK for blind people to rock. Social norms > matter. > How you look and present yourself matters. It is certainly inappropriate > to > label every undesirable behavior of a blind child, e.g. obstinacy or > egocentricity as a symptom of social dysfunction, but I think it useful > and > appropriate for parents to discourage behaviors, commonly called > blindisms, > which only serve to perpetuate societies views on blindness and to further > set apart the blind individual as different. > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thisischris89%40gmai > l.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessica.trask.reagan%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 25 00:38:01 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:38:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <20090925003801.1016.45916@web2.serotek.com> Teal, With all due respect, they didn't write that stuff because they were lesbian. They wrote it because they were immature. If they were not Lesbian, they might have said so-and-so loves dick instead. Not to be crass, but it's important to remember that we often judge the behaviors of those in minority groups based on their minority characteristic. I've seen you do this twice: once with your friend born blind, and now with your Lesbian room mates. I suggest you research what Beatrice Right called "The Fundamental Negative Bias." C Edwin Vaughan discusses the concept extremely well in his book entitled THE STRUGGLE OF BLIND PEOPLE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION; THE REHABILITATION-DEPENDENCY CONFLICT; EMPOWERMENT IN THE BLINDNESS COMMUNITY. Another example of this bias is when poverty and skin color are directly blamed for street violence without looking at all the possibilities and without considering that there are many darked skinned (and light skinned) poor people who do not engage in violence. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina and > violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and > alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Meghan Whalen" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> I don't think their friends were doing that because they were homosexuals. >> It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. >> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your roommates' >> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >> Just my thoughts, >> meghan >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 25 01:10:05 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:10:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com> Mark, I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual acuity. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also > blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have > lots of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and > otherwise fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. > It just seems like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently > than they would treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I > can put my finger on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find > this to be true? > Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people > than sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with > the blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just > because your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different > than anyone else. > I would appreciate your thoughts, > Mark > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 01:14:35 2009 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:14:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <20090925003801.1016.45916@web2.serotek.com> References: <20090925003801.1016.45916@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <4383d01d0909241814v6a747765t79a7f2df33a7bdee@mail.gmail.com> Jamie, I am not saying so. I'm saying other people want it that way, and I was comparing this statement to something I learned in high school. Beth On 9/24/09, Jedi wrote: > Teal, > > With all due respect, they didn't write that stuff because they were > lesbian. They wrote it because they were immature. If they were not > Lesbian, they might have said so-and-so loves dick instead. Not to be > crass, but it's important to remember that we often judge the behaviors > of those in minority groups based on their minority characteristic. > I've seen you do this twice: once with your friend born blind, and now > with your Lesbian room mates. I suggest you research what Beatrice > Right called "The Fundamental Negative Bias." C Edwin Vaughan discusses > the concept extremely well in his book entitled THE STRUGGLE OF BLIND > PEOPLE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION; THE REHABILITATION-DEPENDENCY CONFLICT; > EMPOWERMENT IN THE BLINDNESS COMMUNITY. Another example of this bias is > when poverty and skin color are directly blamed for street violence > without looking at all the possibilities and without considering that > there are many darked skinned (and light skinned) poor people who do > not engage in violence. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina >> and >> violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and >> alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Meghan Whalen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>> I don't think their friends were doing that because they were >>> homosexuals. >>> It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. > >>> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >>> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >>> roommates' >>> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >>> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >>> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. > >>> Just my thoughts, >>> meghan > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 01:16:59 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:16:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? References: <378277.75275.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <010a01ca3d62$fdf34b70$0401a8c0@Serene> Message-ID: <8A454C505CE44210BE80DC73320E5A08@teal6e6857f643> the way you people ar talking to me is NOT!!! appropriate so who are you to judge -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > Yes, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Harry Hogue" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? > > > Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical > means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many > people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The physical focus > with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are not given in this > context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. > Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's > desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. > > I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A coin > always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... > > Harry > > > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: > >> From: David Andrews >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM >> Why do people think it is okay to >> touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted >> adults. I have thought about this a lot and have >> concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class >> as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as >> we are semi-helpless and need assistance. >> >> Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully >> functional, rights-holding adults. >> >> Dave >> >> At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: >> > a couple of things that were interesting >> were the concept of space. >> > I find so much that people will grap you >> and push you to redirect >> > you; something you would clearly not do to a >> sighted individual. I >> > wonder what logical reason >> people have cross their minds to make >> it >> > ok. to do something like that. >> > >> > As for people identifying >> themselves; some people do a rather good >> > job of saying where I've met them ( >> that is those who don't screw >> > up my name >> lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I >> would actually >> > hold a conversation with someone for a couple of >> minutes and within >> > this conversation I could figure out what >> project they had, what >> > team they were on, and by doing so I was able to >> successfully id the >> > person. So the only way I >> think this relates back, is sometimes >> > you just have to kind of make a >> person talk a bit and you'll >> > probably find out who it is if you have time to. >> > >> > On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez >> wrote: >> > > Hello All. >> > > I have not been following this thread faithfully, >> however, I just >> > > schemed through and found some very interesting >> questions that are >> > > actually not unique in this setting. I am a >> psychology major at Emory >> > > University, where research is our middle name! >> Thus, some of this >> > > facial expression experiments have been conducted >> here. but I will >> > > just talk about a very classic experiment >> by Paul Ekman. >> > > Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures >> from all around the >> > > world. He took clips of those videos and >> classified the facial >> > > expression, by categorizing what muscles in the >> face were used to make >> > > those expressions. As he watched more and more >> clipse he determined a >> > > clear pattern of emotions, of people across >> cultures who had never met >> > > each other, some of which had not tv or access to >> the outside world, >> > > and who had radically different customs and >> traditions. >> > > He then took pictures of different faces and >> asked others what emotion >> > > the subject in the picture was experiencing. He >> discovered that for >> > > the most part most people could tell what the >> picture was showing. >> > > Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which >> are: >> > > Anger >> > > Disgust >> > > Fear >> > > Happiness >> > > Sadness >> > > Surprise >> > > Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, >> contempt, pride, >> > > excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, >> satisfaction, sensory >> > > pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All >> this is to say, that >> > > facial expression are not cultural or learned >> behavior, but rather >> > > biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face >> reflect at the very >> > > least these emotions that I listed. The only >> difference is that we are >> > > not readily conscious of how we make these face >> of guilt for example. >> > > Sighted people can look in the mirror and >> practice looking ashamed, it >> > > is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain >> lowering of the brows, we >> > > have to think about it and consciously make an >> effort if we want to >> > > become proficient at making these expressions at >> will. I am a >> > > performer as well, and one of the big things I >> work on is facial >> > > expression, how do I consciously convey to the >> audience what I'm >> > > feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And >> it is a valid skill >> > > to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a >> little bit that anger we >> > > fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a >> little long. >> > > But all this is to merely say, that when you are >> pissed off, it will >> > > show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not >> show any facial >> > > expression or significantly lack body language, >> this is not do to >> > > being blind and not having learned expressions, >> it is rather a >> > > personality thing, and it probably just means >> that you are much more >> > > cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than >> most people. >> > > Mary >> > > >> > > On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth >> wrote: >> > >> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind >> people are socially awkwad if >> > >> they are blind from birth. I agree with you >> that explaining is basically a >> > >> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought >> questions to my mind....is it >> > >> harder to lose your vision mid life or to >> never have it to lose? Things >> > >> like >> > >> this and if one has been sheltered either >> sighted or not they are going to >> > >> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy >> had never really been around >> > >> people without knowing how to act. >> > >> >> > >> >> -Teal >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> > >> To: "National Association of Blind Students >> mailing list" >> > >> >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: >> What would you do? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>>I hope you are not implying that all >> people that have been blind since >> > >>>birth are socially awkward. I may not have >> lots of sighted friends, but >> > >>>this is not due to me not knowing how to >> act. Also when people concitter >> > >>>themselves blind it does not meen that >> they see absolootly nothing. I have >> > >>>a little bit of usable vision, but not >> enough to do much with and when >> > >>>people ask I say I am blind. I don't >> bother with attempting to explain the >> > >>>miniscule amount of vision I have, it just >> confuses people. >> > >>> >> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >> > >>> >> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 >> PM >> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: >> What would you do? >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>>> well honestly i have only been around >> one guy totally blind since birth >> > >>>> and he was socially awkward. When he >> was happy or excited he would do a >> > >>>> wiggling of the butt up against >> someone and would giggle like a child >> > >>>> when he was 27. I think he was >> sheltered his whole life by his parents >> > >>>> since he was adopted and the only >> blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >> > >>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Another guy with retina problems can >> see like looking through a straw >> > >>>> and >> > >>>> >> > >>>> was a senior in college trying to be >> a priest. He is probably my hero >> > >>>> and >> > >>>> >> > >>>> gave me some saying i will use in the >> future. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> -Teal >> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >>>> From: "Jedi" >> > >>>> To: >> > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 >> PM >> > >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward >> Situations: What would you do? >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>>> Teal, >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> I don't know which blind guys >> you're hanging with, but I don't notice >> > >>>>> too much difference between those >> born blind versus those who had sight >> > >>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, >> there is no significant personality >> > >>>>> differences between the two. Life >> experiences may vary, and life >> > >>>>> experiences shape our >> perceptions, but not so much so that it >> > >>>>> fundamentally changes an >> individual on such a deep level. That is, >> > >>>>> unless they let it. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Respectfully, >> > >>>>> Jedi >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> Original message: >> > >>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I >> am sorry but that is hard to >> > >>>>>> believe....maybe >> > >>>>>> the facial expression you do >> show is presumibly unfriendly? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> As for them not talking to >> you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >> > >>>>>> alittle >> > >>>>>> stereotipical for me but i >> oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >> > >>>>>> i say >> > >>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont >> just see darkness. This is probably a >> > >>>>>> psychological factor in that >> i see a type of gray scale all the time >> > >>>>>> and in >> > >>>>>> department stores it seems to >> be lighter because of the numerous >> > >>>>>> florescent >> > >>>>>> lighting but other times i >> cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >> > >>>>>> a >> > >>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you >> been blind or visually impaired since >> > >>>>>> birth? I >> > >>>>>> have found a slight >> difference in personality characteristics in >> > >>>>>> people >> > >>>>>> blind since birth and those >> that have become blind in the middle of >> > >>>>>> life. >> > >>>>>> And honestly i have heard of >> people who wear the dark shades but never >> > >>>>>> personally met anyone that >> does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >> > >>>>>> so? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> -Teal >> > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >> >> > >>>>>> To: "National Association of >> Blind Students mailing list" >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, >> 2009 8:21 PM >> > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward >> Situations: What would you do? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>> Most sighted people just >> think I am angry or something based off my >> > >>>>>>> facial >> > >>>>>>> expression. I am just >> neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >> > >>>>>>> on >> > >>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. >> Some people don't like it when I don't >> > >>>>>>> make/keep >> > >>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes >> people don't talk to me, because they think I >> > >>>>>>> am >> > >>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>> As a side note, how do >> you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >> > >>>>>>> affects others reaction >> to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >> > >>>>>>> occasionally emotionless >> body language create a lot of oukword >> > >>>>>>> situations. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message >> ----- >> > >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >> >> > >>>>>>> To: "National Association >> of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September >> 20, 2009 9:00 PM >> > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have >> had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >> > >>>>>>>> isnt >> > >>>>>>>> the best however >> people say through my facial expressions and >> > >>>>>>>> ability >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> to >> > >>>>>>>> look in the direction >> of the person thanks to depth perception >> > >>>>>>>> people >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> say >> > >>>>>>>> i dont even look >> blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >> > >>>>>>>> looks like but i >> believe all of these reflexes you are describing >> > >>>>>>>> comes >> > >>>>>>>> naturally from your >> environment and maturation during infancy. We >> > >>>>>>>> are >> > >>>>>>>> actually talking >> about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >> > >>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing >> and walking and talking is a distinct >> > >>>>>>>> developmental >> > >>>>>>>> stage according to >> piaget. Some say we learn these through >> > >>>>>>>> environment >> > >>>>>>>> and social >> interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >> > >>>>>>>> change >> > >>>>>>>> in our biological >> being. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> I agree with yu that >> it is a very interesting question and this >> > >>>>>>>> topic >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> is >> > >>>>>>>> a personal interest. >> As for showing the world when you are pissed >> > >>>>>>>> off >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> or >> > >>>>>>>> sad or even happy i >> dont think you learn from actually seeing other >> > >>>>>>>> peoples responses to >> an action. I believe you learn these emotions >> > >>>>>>>> through personality >> development of what actions give you these >> > >>>>>>>> feelings, >> > >>>>>>>> then these feelings >> are visually portrayed naturally. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> Dont quote me on >> anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >> > >>>>>>>> question...i am a >> social work/psychology major >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> -Teal >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> ----- Original >> Message ----- >> > >>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. >> Lininger" >> > >>>>>>>> To: "National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, >> September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >> Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP >> SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > >>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Teal, >> > >>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. >> Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >> > >>>>>>>>> muscle control >> over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >> > >>>>>>>>> other >> > >>>>>>>>> people, eye >> contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >> > >>>>>>>>> disconcerting for >> a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >> > >>>>>>>>> even >> > >>>>>>>>> more >> disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly >> and >> > >>>>>>>>> never >> > >>>>>>>>> break it. I'm >> afraid I never learned the finer points though. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> This is somewhat >> related, and I'd be curious to know what the >> > >>>>>>>>> psychologists and >> sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >> > >>>>>>>>> little ground >> work for the more general question, so bare with me. >> > >>>>>>>>> I've >> > >>>>>>>>> known for some >> time that my emotions and moods are communicated >> > >>>>>>>>> visually, at >> least sometimes. But I had something happen that >> > >>>>>>>>> actually >> > >>>>>>>>> got me curious >> about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >> > >>>>>>>>> had a >> > >>>>>>>>> router go down in >> a data center at a company I had been working for >> > >>>>>>>>> a >> > >>>>>>>>> few months ago. >> I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >> > >>>>>>>>> everything >> working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >> > >>>>>>>>> took >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> the >> > >>>>>>>>> entire company >> off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >> > >>>>>>>>> and >> > >>>>>>>>> one of the first >> things the guy driving me to the data center said >> > >>>>>>>>> was, >> > >>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you >> look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >> > >>>>>>>>> someone." I >> hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >> > >>>>>>>>> was. >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> I >> > >>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware >> of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >> > >>>>>>>>> to >> > >>>>>>>>> look pleasant and >> ready for another day despite the promise of yet >> > >>>>>>>>> more >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> After this, I >> became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >> > >>>>>>>>> was >> > >>>>>>>>> with body >> language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >> > >>>>>>>>> known me for a >> while, mainly family members about it and they all >> > >>>>>>>>> said I >> > >>>>>>>>> was in fact >> expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >> > >>>>>>>>> even >> > >>>>>>>>> provided a >> running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >> > >>>>>>>>> face >> > >>>>>>>>> was doing while >> conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >> > >>>>>>>>> question. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> I always thought >> that at least to a point people learned these >> > >>>>>>>>> expressions and >> that mostly by observing those around them and >> > >>>>>>>>> learning >> > >>>>>>>>> what they meant. >> I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >> > >>>>>>>>> work >> > >>>>>>>>> that way, and I >> could even understand certain reflexive >> > >>>>>>>>> expressions. >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> For >> > >>>>>>>>> example, >> stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >> > >>>>>>>>> thought >> > >>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> the >> > >>>>>>>>> more detailed >> stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >> > >>>>>>>>> certain >> > >>>>>>>>> expressions, that >> sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >> > >>>>>>>>> in >> > >>>>>>>>> how I can't see >> others doing these things and never have been able >> > >>>>>>>>> to, >> > >>>>>>>>> how would I have >> possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >> > >>>>>>>>> done >> > >>>>>>>>> regarding such >> things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >> > >>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking >> the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >> > >>>>>>>>> taught >> > >>>>>>>>> those while I >> didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >> > >>>>>>>>> on >> > >>>>>>>>> what governs what >> visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >> > >>>>>>>>> lack of >> > >>>>>>>>> vision and which >> must be picked up visually? >> > >>>>>>>>> - -- >> > >>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The >> condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >> > >>>>>>>>> body's natural >> desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >> > >>>>>>>>> who desperately >> deserves it. >> > >>>>>>>>> Joseph C. >> Lininger, >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP >> SIGNATURE----- >> > >>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG >> v1.4.9 (MingW32) >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >> > >>>>>>>>> >> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >> > >>>>>>>>> >> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >> > >>>>>>>>> >> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >> > >>>>>>>>> >> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >> > >>>>>>>>> >> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >> > >>>>>>>>> =gV8x >> > >>>>>>>>> -----END PGP >> SIGNATURE----- >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing >> list >> > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list options or get your account info >> > >>>>>>>>> for >> > >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> > >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, >> change your list options or get your account info >> > >>>>>>>> for >> > >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >> > >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change >> your list options or get your account info for >> > >>>>>>> nabs-l: >> > >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >> list options or get your account info for >> > >>>>>> nabs-l: >> > >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > >>>>> B >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> -- >> > >>>>> Email services provided by the >> System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> > >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more >> about accessibility anywhere. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> > >>>>> nabs-l: >> > >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >> options or get your account info for >> > >>>> nabs-l: >> > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>> nabs-l mailing list >> > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >> or get your account info for >> > >>> nabs-l: >> > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> nabs-l mailing list >> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >> get your account info for >> > >> nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Mary Fernandez >> > > Emory University 2012 >> > > P.O. Box 123056 >> > > Atlanta Ga. >> > > 30322 >> > > Phone: 732-857-7004 >> > > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we >> understand that >> > > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> > > President Barack Obama >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > nabs-l mailing list >> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >> your account info for >> > > nabs-l: >> > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, >> version of virus signature database 4452 (20090924) >> __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 01:40:15 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:40:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i live because there is no one my age. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > Mark, > > I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind > friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That > is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the > stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. > > I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends > treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the > difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual acuity. > > Respectfully Submitted > Original message: >> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have lots >> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just seems >> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? > > > >> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people than >> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >> anyone else. > > > >> I would appreciate your thoughts, > > > >> Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From guitargirl89 at windstream.net Wed Sep 16 13:27:51 2009 From: guitargirl89 at windstream.net (stacy timberlake) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:27:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help In-Reply-To: <91CB9203C160441CA26A9B5FE002D576@teal6e6857f643> References: <4804d1140908251157k6a4c0075rec050d0e287aa3cd@mail.gmail.com><5361CC2320DE411E971B4ECB49A4DCB6@StacyPC> <91CB9203C160441CA26A9B5FE002D576@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <95BE7C0B6F674FD89684894A8AF16714@StacyPC> TEAL-- Hey woman! I miss you so much! How are you liking having the dog guide? Are you coming to state convention? I will most def call you! --Stacy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Textbook Help > ok ashley. This semester i am working with txtbooks from the publishers > which are in text format or ABC=XIP files. Adobe and jaws 10 work fine > since jaws 10 can read PDF. Also if you have a stream or other book reader > that will read text you are set. I have found though that it is much > easier > to keep the text document on the computer and manually find what you are > looking for. > > Also HEY Stacey...I miss you so call me sometime! > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "stacy timberlake" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Textbook Help > > >>I just use Adobe--Maybe the new version works better because I haven't >>had >>any problems. >> Good luck! >> Stacy >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Cumbiambera2005" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:57 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help >> >> >>> hello nabsters, >>> I am needing some help. This year, one of my "accessible" textbooks is >>> going to be in PDF format. Does anyone know of an accessible program >>> that I might be able to get a hold of that will convert this to a text >>> file, preferrably something that is not going to cost me? I am not >>> sure how well Adobe works with jaws, but from my past experience with >>> it, I haven't found it very helpful. Does anyone know how this might >>> work? Obviously I will need access to my textbook, so any help would >>> be greatly appreciated. Thanks, >>> Ashley >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/guitargirl89%40windstream.net >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: >> 08/25/09 >> 18:07:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/guitargirl89%40windstream.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.100/2373 - Release Date: 09/15/09 13:37:00 From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 02:27:07 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:27:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Stacey Timberlake References: <4804d1140908251157k6a4c0075rec050d0e287aa3cd@mail.gmail.com><5361CC2320DE411E971B4ECB49A4DCB6@StacyPC><91CB9203C160441CA26A9B5FE002D576@teal6e6857f643> <95BE7C0B6F674FD89684894A8AF16714@StacyPC> Message-ID: <0A3825E7934D4876B685A56E4229B026@teal6e6857f643> Hey So yes i love my beautiful yello lab Barton. He is amazing except that it gets irritating with people in stores "look at the dog" or either asking to pet barton or telling me about their dog. Oh well though atleast they are asking. I have had a couple people i hear making noises to call him over to them and its like hey great thanks get him distracted and kill me one day. No i am not going to state convention. I havent really had a break to sit and relax because it was louisville, new york then come home to move and start school. I am doing good in school though. Plus i dont know when it is or how i would get there. Maybe next year. I would've liked to have gone to the national convention but i was in New York getting my doggy. Also to email me off list.... Tealbloodworth at gmail.com yes call me and i look forward to hearing from you. I miss the best Moca at Highland coffee and it would be a blast getting there with Barton. Maybe next summer? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "stacy timberlake" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Textbook Help > TEAL-- > Hey woman! I miss you so much! How are you liking having the dog guide? > Are you coming to state convention? > I will most def call you! > --Stacy > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Textbook Help > > >> ok ashley. This semester i am working with txtbooks from the publishers >> which are in text format or ABC=XIP files. Adobe and jaws 10 work fine >> since jaws 10 can read PDF. Also if you have a stream or other book >> reader >> that will read text you are set. I have found though that it is much >> easier >> to keep the text document on the computer and manually find what you are >> looking for. >> >> Also HEY Stacey...I miss you so call me sometime! >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "stacy timberlake" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 4:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Textbook Help >> >> >>>I just use Adobe--Maybe the new version works better because I haven't >>>had >>>any problems. >>> Good luck! >>> Stacy >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Cumbiambera2005" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:57 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook Help >>> >>> >>>> hello nabsters, >>>> I am needing some help. This year, one of my "accessible" textbooks is >>>> going to be in PDF format. Does anyone know of an accessible program >>>> that I might be able to get a hold of that will convert this to a text >>>> file, preferrably something that is not going to cost me? I am not >>>> sure how well Adobe works with jaws, but from my past experience with >>>> it, I haven't found it very helpful. Does anyone know how this might >>>> work? Obviously I will need access to my textbook, so any help would >>>> be greatly appreciated. Thanks, >>>> Ashley >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/guitargirl89%40windstream.net >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.67/2326 - Release Date: >>> 08/25/09 >>> 18:07:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/guitargirl89%40windstream.net > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.100/2373 - Release Date: > 09/15/09 13:37:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 25 02:43:56 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:43:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? Message-ID: <20090925024356.9724.44486@web2.serotek.com> Teal, Please understand that we're not attempting to judge you. I believe that those who have posted have done so in good faith and only want to point out that being Lesbian has no real relevence to your friends' immature behaviors. On that note, how often have the blind been judged regarding our behaviors simply because we're blind? It's more or less the same thing, and I appreciate the fact that your presence in this discussion has really brought that home for us. Thanks. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > the way you people ar talking to me is NOT!!! appropriate so who are you to > judge > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> Yes, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate! >> Serena >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Harry Hogue" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >> Please do not forget that often when people direct through some physical >> means, it is simply the best way they know to communicate direction; many >> people find it tedious to verbally direct someone. The physical focus >> with the sighted person is pointing. Explanations are not given in this >> context; minimal verbal direction, while maximizing gestures is used. >> Likewise, with a blind person, a physical direction to the person's >> desired course (read: pointing) and minimal verbal direction is used. >> I hope I am making sense to the rest of you; it is logical to me. A coin >> always has two sides, a story multiple interpretations, etc... >> Harry >> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, David Andrews wrote: >>> From: David Andrews >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 12:53 AM >>> Why do people think it is okay to >>> touch us when they wouldn't do the same to sighted >>> adults. I have thought about this a lot and have >>> concluded that part of their minds put us in the same class >>> as small children, so it is okay to touch and direct us as >>> we are semi-helpless and need assistance. >>> Clearly some people don't regard us as independent, fully >>> functional, rights-holding adults. >>> Dave >>> At 12:35 AM 9/23/2009, you wrote: >>>> a couple of things that were interesting >>> were the concept of space. >>>> I find so much that people will grap you >>> and push you to redirect >>>> you; something you would clearly not do to a >>> sighted individual. I >>>> wonder what logical reason >>> people have cross their minds to make >>> it >>>> ok. to do something like that. >>>> As for people identifying >>> themselves; some people do a rather good >>>> job of saying where I've met them ( >>> that is those who don't screw >>>> up my name >>> lol). within my time in AmeriCorps, I >>> would actually >>>> hold a conversation with someone for a couple of >>> minutes and within >>>> this conversation I could figure out what >>> project they had, what >>>> team they were on, and by doing so I was able to >>> successfully id the >>>> person. So the only way I >>> think this relates back, is sometimes >>>> you just have to kind of make a >>> person talk a bit and you'll >>>> probably find out who it is if you have time to. >>>> On 9/22/09, Mary Fernandez >>> wrote: >>>>> Hello All. >>>>> I have not been following this thread faithfully, >>> however, I just >>>>> schemed through and found some very interesting >>> questions that are >>>>> actually not unique in this setting. I am a >>> psychology major at Emory >>>>> University, where research is our middle name! >>> Thus, some of this >>>>> facial expression experiments have been conducted >>> here. but I will >>>>> just talk about a very classic experiment >>> by Paul Ekman. >>>>> Paul Ekman took videos of 100s of remote cultures >>> from all around the >>>>> world. He took clips of those videos and >>> classified the facial >>>>> expression, by categorizing what muscles in the >>> face were used to make >>>>> those expressions. As he watched more and more >>> clipse he determined a >>>>> clear pattern of emotions, of people across >>> cultures who had never met >>>>> each other, some of which had not tv or access to >>> the outside world, >>>>> and who had radically different customs and >>> traditions. >>>>> He then took pictures of different faces and >>> asked others what emotion >>>>> the subject in the picture was experiencing. He >>> discovered that for >>>>> the most part most people could tell what the >>> picture was showing. >>>>> Thus, he came up with a few basic emotions which >>> are: >>>>> Anger >>>>> Disgust >>>>> Fear >>>>> Happiness >>>>> Sadness >>>>> Surprise >>>>> Later, in 1992, he added to the list, disgust, >>> contempt, pride, >>>>> excitement, embarrassment, guilt, relief, >>> satisfaction, sensory >>>>> pleasure and shame. I think i got them all. All >>> this is to say, that >>>>> facial expression are not cultural or learned >>> behavior, but rather >>>>> biological. Thus, as a blind person, our face >>> reflect at the very >>>>> least these emotions that I listed. The only >>> difference is that we are >>>>> not readily conscious of how we make these face >>> of guilt for example. >>>>> Sighted people can look in the mirror and >>> practice looking ashamed, it >>>>> is a certain slant of the eyes, a certain >>> lowering of the brows, we >>>>> have to think about it and consciously make an >>> effort if we want to >>>>> become proficient at making these expressions at >>> will. I am a >>>>> performer as well, and one of the big things I >>> work on is facial >>>>> expression, how do I consciously convey to the >>> audience what I'm >>>>> feeling? It takes practice but it is doable. And >>> it is a valid skill >>>>> to learn, since sometimes we want to hide a >>> little bit that anger we >>>>> fell towards our manager! Ok, my answer was a >>> little long. >>>>> But all this is to merely say, that when you are >>> pissed off, it will >>>>> show on your face. Smile. If you however, do not >>> show any facial >>>>> expression or significantly lack body language, >>> this is not do to >>>>> being blind and not having learned expressions, >>> it is rather a >>>>> personality thing, and it probably just means >>> that you are much more >>>>> cool-headed, and get less easily aroused than >>> most people. >>>>> Mary >>>>> On 9/22/09, Teal Bloodworth >>> wrote: >>>>>> Right i have no usable vision. Not all blind >>> people are socially awkwad if >>>>>> they are blind from birth. I agree with you >>> that explaining is basically a >>>>>> waste of time. I am saying this guy brought >>> questions to my mind....is it >>>>>> harder to lose your vision mid life or to >>> never have it to lose? Things >>>>>> like >>>>>> this and if one has been sheltered either >>> sighted or not they are going to >>>>>> have a bit of social awkwardness. This guy >>> had never really been around >>>>>> people without knowing how to act. >>> -Teal >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students >>> mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:30 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: >>> What would you do? >>>>>>> I hope you are not implying that all >>> people that have been blind since >>>>>>> birth are socially awkward. I may not have >>> lots of sighted friends, but >>>>>>> this is not due to me not knowing how to >>> act. Also when people concitter >>>>>>> themselves blind it does not meen that >>> they see absolootly nothing. I have >>>>>>> a little bit of usable vision, but not >>> enough to do much with and when >>>>>>> people ask I say I am blind. I don't >>> bother with attempting to explain the >>>>>>> miniscule amount of vision I have, it just >>> confuses people. >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:29 >>> PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward Situations: >>> What would you do? >>>>>>>> well honestly i have only been around >>> one guy totally blind since birth >>>>>>>> and he was socially awkward. When he >>> was happy or excited he would do a >>>>>>>> wiggling of the butt up against >>> someone and would giggle like a child >>>>>>>> when he was 27. I think he was >>> sheltered his whole life by his parents >>>>>>>> since he was adopted and the only >>> blind/V.I. in the house. I guess this >>>>>>>> gave me an indifferent impression. >>>>>>>> Another guy with retina problems can >>> see like looking through a straw >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> was a senior in college trying to be >>> a priest. He is probably my hero >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> gave me some saying i will use in the >>> future. >>> -Teal >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Jedi" >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 >>> PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward >>> Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>> I don't know which blind guys >>> you're hanging with, but I don't notice >>>>>>>>> too much difference between those >>> born blind versus those who had sight >>>>>>>>> at some point. Fundamentally, >>> there is no significant personality >>>>>>>>> differences between the two. Life >>> experiences may vary, and life >>>>>>>>> experiences shape our >>> perceptions, but not so much so that it >>>>>>>>> fundamentally changes an >>> individual on such a deep level. That is, >>>>>>>>> unless they let it. >>>>>>>>> Respectfully, >>>>>>>>> Jedi >>>>>>>>> Original message: >>>>>>>>>> you dont show any emotion? I >>> am sorry but that is hard to >>>>>>>>>> believe....maybe >>>>>>>>>> the facial expression you do >>> show is presumibly unfriendly? >>>>>>>>>> As for them not talking to >>> you that is rediculus. The dark shades is >>>>>>>>>> alittle >>>>>>>>>> stereotipical for me but i >>> oddly keep my eyes open....Not sure why and >>>>>>>>>> i say >>>>>>>>>> i am totally blind but i dont >>> just see darkness. This is probably a >>>>>>>>>> psychological factor in that >>> i see a type of gray scale all the time >>>>>>>>>> and in >>>>>>>>>> department stores it seems to >>> be lighter because of the numerous >>>>>>>>>> florescent >>>>>>>>>> lighting but other times i >>> cannot really tell for sure whether i am in >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> lighted room or not. Have you >>> been blind or visually impaired since >>>>>>>>>> birth? I >>>>>>>>>> have found a slight >>> difference in personality characteristics in >>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>> blind since birth and those >>> that have become blind in the middle of >>>>>>>>>> life. >>>>>>>>>> And honestly i have heard of >>> people who wear the dark shades but never >>>>>>>>>> personally met anyone that >>> does. Can i ask you why you choose to do >>>>>>>>>> so? >>> -Teal >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "Mark J. Cadigan" >>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of >>> Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, >>> 2009 8:21 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Awkward >>> Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>>> Most sighted people just >>> think I am angry or something based off my >>>>>>>>>>> facial >>>>>>>>>>> expression. I am just >>> neutral, neither happy nor mad or any ware else >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> the emotional spectrum. >>> Some people don't like it when I don't >>>>>>>>>>> make/keep >>>>>>>>>>> eye contact. Sometimes >>> people don't talk to me, because they think I >>>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>>> too unreadable at times. >>>>>>>>>>> As a side note, how do >>> you think wearing dark sunglasses all the time >>>>>>>>>>> affects others reaction >>> to you? In my experience my dark glasses and >>>>>>>>>>> occasionally emotionless >>> body language create a lot of oukword >>>>>>>>>>> situations. >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message >>> ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Teal Bloodworth" >>> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association >>> of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September >>> 20, 2009 9:00 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >>> Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>>>> Honestly, yes i have >>> had vision before but my eye movement via TBI >>>>>>>>>>>> isnt >>>>>>>>>>>> the best however >>> people say through my facial expressions and >>>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> look in the direction >>> of the person thanks to depth perception >>>>>>>>>>>> people >>>>>>>>>>>> say >>>>>>>>>>>> i dont even look >>> blind. I am not sure of what a typical blind person >>>>>>>>>>>> looks like but i >>> believe all of these reflexes you are describing >>>>>>>>>>>> comes >>>>>>>>>>>> naturally from your >>> environment and maturation during infancy. We >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> actually talking >>> about this in developmental psych. Reflexes like >>>>>>>>>>>> reaching, grabbing >>> and walking and talking is a distinct >>>>>>>>>>>> developmental >>>>>>>>>>>> stage according to >>> piaget. Some say we learn these through >>>>>>>>>>>> environment >>>>>>>>>>>> and social >>> interaction while others say it is a specific cognative >>>>>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>>>>> in our biological >>> being. >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with yu that >>> it is a very interesting question and this >>>>>>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> a personal interest. >>> As for showing the world when you are pissed >>>>>>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> sad or even happy i >>> dont think you learn from actually seeing other >>>>>>>>>>>> peoples responses to >>> an action. I believe you learn these emotions >>>>>>>>>>>> through personality >>> development of what actions give you these >>>>>>>>>>>> feelings, >>>>>>>>>>>> then these feelings >>> are visually portrayed naturally. >>>>>>>>>>>> Dont quote me on >>> anything, this is my opinion of the answer to your >>>>>>>>>>>> question...i am a >>> social work/psychology major >>> -Teal >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original >>> Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Joseph C. >>> Lininger" >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National >>> Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, >>> September 20, 2009 5:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] >>> Awkward Situations: What would you do? >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP >>> SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA256 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Teal, >>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL That's funny. >>> Honestly, I've never had much sight and never had >>>>>>>>>>>>> muscle control >>> over my eyes. So I don't know much about looking at >>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> people, eye >>> contact, that sort of thing. I have been told it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> disconcerting for >>> a person to never make eye contact, and that it's >>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>> disconcerting for a person to make eye contact constantly >>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>>> break it. I'm >>> afraid I never learned the finer points though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is somewhat >>> related, and I'd be curious to know what the >>>>>>>>>>>>> psychologists and >>> sociologists among you think. I'll need to lay a >>>>>>>>>>>>> little ground >>> work for the more general question, so bare with me. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've >>>>>>>>>>>>> known for some >>> time that my emotions and moods are communicated >>>>>>>>>>>>> visually, at >>> least sometimes. But I had something happen that >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> got me curious >>> about trying to find out exactly how it happens. We >>>>>>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>>>>>> router go down in >>> a data center at a company I had been working for >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> few months ago. >>> I'd had a bad day the day before trying to get >>>>>>>>>>>>> everything >>> working, and that router went down at about 4 am and >>>>>>>>>>>>> took >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> entire company >>> off the Internet. Well, I came out of my hotel room >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the first >>> things the guy driving me to the data center said >>>>>>>>>>>>> was, >>>>>>>>>>>>> "wow Joe, you >>> look really pissed off. Like maybe you'd like to kill >>>>>>>>>>>>> someone." I >>> hadn't given any hint to being pissed off, though I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> wasn't even aware >>> of it being communicated in my looks, I'd tried >>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>>> look pleasant and >>> ready for another day despite the promise of yet >>>>>>>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>>>>>>> problems. >>>>>>>>>>>>> After this, I >>> became curious about exactly how expressive or not I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>>> with body >>> language, facial expressions, etc. I asked people who had >>>>>>>>>>>>> known me for a >>> while, mainly family members about it and they all >>>>>>>>>>>>> said I >>>>>>>>>>>>> was in fact >>> expressive visually, at least to a point. My sister >>>>>>>>>>>>> even >>>>>>>>>>>>> provided a >>> running commentary one day for a few minutes on what my >>>>>>>>>>>>> face >>>>>>>>>>>>> was doing while >>> conversing with people at her house. So, here's my >>>>>>>>>>>>> question. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I always thought >>> that at least to a point people learned these >>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions and >>> that mostly by observing those around them and >>>>>>>>>>>>> learning >>>>>>>>>>>>> what they meant. >>> I knew basic stuff like a smile or frown didn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>>>>>>> that way, and I >>> could even understand certain reflexive >>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For >>>>>>>>>>>>> example, >>> stiffening in response to fear or anger. However, I >>>>>>>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> more detailed >>> stuff, arching eyebrows, moving of the eyes with >>>>>>>>>>>>> certain >>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions, that >>> sort of thing was learned behavior. Well, seeing >>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> how I can't see >>> others doing these things and never have been able >>>>>>>>>>>>> to, >>>>>>>>>>>>> how would I have >>> possibly picked them up? Have any experiments been >>>>>>>>>>>>> done >>>>>>>>>>>>> regarding such >>> things? And more interesting... Some stuff, such as >>>>>>>>>>>>> nodding, shaking >>> the head, or shrugging, I had to be specifically >>>>>>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>>>>>> those while I >>> didn't other expressions. Does anyone have any ideas >>>>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>>>> what governs what >>> visual cues are natural or learned in spite of >>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of >>>>>>>>>>>>> vision and which >>> must be picked up visually? >>>>>>>>>>>>> - -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stress (N): The >>> condition that occurs when ones mind overrides the >>>>>>>>>>>>> body's natural >>> desire to reach out and slap the hell out of someone >>>>>>>>>>>>> who desperately >>> deserves it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph C. >>> Lininger, >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP >>> SIGNATURE----- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG >>> v1.4.9 (MingW32) >>> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKtqy5AAoJEMh8jNraUiwqY60IALYQNeXJZERY61pNgDFV2sWX >>> DKqZ/byNBPAMmQJ5A4ptHoKLpBcYu1iRylKmm+3ch3hhYDdBT/mswkev5eCi5rWV >>> /5xQQWftxoUnOG0uILdlJFojtcZJHny8OK9eskikf3YC8JFDeoOoFEUrKYjx8YBc >>> sEpJyUPGYcmXbSjCskxTHFjfW2eqwAvZJzzPiG9e9HeXa/0Ze8a3HF0i8hhUZrSW >>> +g6Y9ICCvgz8gHS6Bsmyi9Bn3s0ZDPlhuBdjIBAfzVDnLDHVhQmfAz6618GTi0ix >>> 5zrxd8v7yyt8tTRagfgugApM6DNsSyosw81YFCuLax55dzfYRfk+yhBX6AN1N+w= >>>>>>>>>>>>> =gV8x >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----END PGP >>> SIGNATURE----- >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing >>> list >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, >>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, >>> change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change >>> your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your >>> list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>>>>>>>> B >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Email services provided by the >>> System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more >>> about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list >>> options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options >>> or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or >>> get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>>>> -- >>>>> Mary Fernandez >>>>> Emory University 2012 >>>>> P.O. Box 123056 >>>>> Atlanta Ga. >>>>> 30322 >>>>> Phone: 732-857-7004 >>>>> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we >>> understand that >>>>> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >>>>> President Barack Obama >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get >>> your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dandrews%40visi.com >>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, >>> version of virus signature database 4452 (20090924) >>> __________ >>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>> http://www.eset.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >>> account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 02:50:49 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:50:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090925003801.1016.45916@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <4C3401AFD69548DB99986A8F4C2CF27A@teal6e6857f643> all i said was that those people I.E. my friend blind from birth made questions arise that were there before i met him. But you know what i am going to be the bigger person here and know when to shut my mouth and you should do the same. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > Teal, > > With all due respect, they didn't write that stuff because they were > lesbian. They wrote it because they were immature. If they were not > Lesbian, they might have said so-and-so loves dick instead. Not to be > crass, but it's important to remember that we often judge the behaviors of > those in minority groups based on their minority characteristic. I've seen > you do this twice: once with your friend born blind, and now with your > Lesbian room mates. I suggest you research what Beatrice Right called "The > Fundamental Negative Bias." C Edwin Vaughan discusses the concept > extremely well in his book entitled THE STRUGGLE OF BLIND PEOPLE FOR > SELF-DETERMINATION; THE REHABILITATION-DEPENDENCY CONFLICT; EMPOWERMENT IN > THE BLINDNESS COMMUNITY. Another example of this bias is when poverty and > skin color are directly blamed for street violence without looking at all > the possibilities and without considering that there are many darked > skinned (and light skinned) poor people who do not engage in violence. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina >> and >> violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and >> alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Meghan Whalen" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>> I don't think their friends were doing that because they were >>> homosexuals. >>> It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. > >>> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >>> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >>> roommates' >>> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >>> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >>> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. > >>> Just my thoughts, >>> meghan > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Fri Sep 25 02:59:44 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces Message-ID: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I owuld like to get everyone's thoughts on modifying a set of wooden chess pieces to distinguish the white pieces from the black pieces. They ahve velt on the bottom, the king measures 3.75in high, with bases at 1.5in. I do not remember if they are painted or natural woods; I think they are painted, though. They are accompanying a chess board that I build, so no modification on that score is necessary. They are double-weighted. Harry From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 25 03:21:44 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:21:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <20090925032144.12791.15375@web2.serotek.com> Teal, I was also the only totalblind person at my school (except for the guy in the life skills class that no one ever really saw), and so that really changed how I perceived the high school environment based on how I felt others treated me. However, whether she knew it or not, my mother made an excellent choice by sending me to school for the blind summer camps and the like to socialize me with other blind kids. I realy felt an even stronger network with the federation since not only are we blind, but we have more or less the same views on blindness. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only > totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year > university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i live > because there is no one my age. > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> Mark, >> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind >> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That >> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends >> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual acuity. >> Respectfully Submitted >> Original message: >>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have lots >>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just seems >>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people than >>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>> anyone else. >>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >>> Mark >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri Sep 25 03:29:51 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:29:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <20090925032951.13575.6401@web2.serotek.com> Teal, Oh, you're absolutely right! The absolutely insidious nature of prejudice and judgemental attitudes toward minorities always starts with assumptions that are confirmed by someone from said minority who acts them out and mirrors those assumptions back to us! I'm so glad you noticed that since it's the cornerstone of the blindness experience! Part of the issue we face is that the sighted base their responses to us on misconceptions. But we also must give validity to the experiences the sighted have in which some blind person mirrored the stereotypes back to them and thus reinforced them. Naturally, the blind often mirror stereotypes to each other and reinforce them. I'll give you a fantastic example. When i was younger, I did more or less the same as the other partially blind students and guided the totally blind around campus during summer blind camps. I did this partialy because sighted adults told me to, but also because the totally blind in my space mirrored the stereotype of helplessness to me. That didn't change until I met Federationists who totally blew my thinking out of the water and changed my conception of what blindness (at any level) really means in our lives. Thanks so much for bringing that up since It's definitely worth discussing. As Dr. Jernigan used to say, "The blind often see themselves as others see them, and thus do much to make perceptions of blindness a reality." Okay, that's not a direct quote, but it's close enough. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > all i said was that those people I.E. my friend blind from birth made > questions arise that were there before i met him. But you know what i am > going to be the bigger person here and know when to shut my mouth and you > should do the same. > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:38 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> Teal, >> With all due respect, they didn't write that stuff because they were >> lesbian. They wrote it because they were immature. If they were not >> Lesbian, they might have said so-and-so loves dick instead. Not to be >> crass, but it's important to remember that we often judge the behaviors of >> those in minority groups based on their minority characteristic. I've seen >> you do this twice: once with your friend born blind, and now with your >> Lesbian room mates. I suggest you research what Beatrice Right called "The >> Fundamental Negative Bias." C Edwin Vaughan discusses the concept >> extremely well in his book entitled THE STRUGGLE OF BLIND PEOPLE FOR >> SELF-DETERMINATION; THE REHABILITATION-DEPENDENCY CONFLICT; EMPOWERMENT IN >> THE BLINDNESS COMMUNITY. Another example of this bias is when poverty and >> skin color are directly blamed for street violence without looking at all >> the possibilities and without considering that there are many darked >> skinned (and light skinned) poor people who do not engage in violence. >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> they drew two girls touching each other and then put violet loves vagina >>> and >>> violet was my roomate. they also wrote other things like cunt scab and >>> alyssa loves puss because alyssa was also homosexual. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Meghan Whalen" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:57 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>>> I don't think their friends were doing that because they were >>>> homosexuals. >>>> It is important not to jump to conclusions in all aspects of life. >>>> If these people who were writing inappropriate things on the doors were >>>> friends of your roommates, I don't think it was because of your >>>> roommates' >>>> sexual orientation that their friends were writing on the doors. Once >>>> again, I think these were just college students being like a lot of >>>> college students...having fun, goofing around, all of that. >>>> Just my thoughts, >>>> meghan >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jlineback at austin.rr.com Fri Sep 25 03:37:07 2009 From: jlineback at austin.rr.com (Jeanine Lineback) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:37:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] PacMate Omni for sale! Message-ID: Jeanine Lineback I have a PacMate Omni for sale with a 20 character Braille display, an executive products leather case, a wireless card, a modem card and an ether net cable connector, plusthe original shipping box, power chord, documentation and a couple of extra compact flash cards. Asking price $1,599.00 plus cost of shipping. I am willing to negotiate on the asking price. Shipping cost will be approximately $16.00 to $20.00. If you are interested send e-mail to: jeanine.lineback at gmail.com Or call: (512) 919-0430 For more information! From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 10:20:48 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 06:20:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I modified my set of wooden chess pieces by flattening the tops of the black pieces and rounding off the white ones. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:59 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces > Hello, > > I owuld like to get everyone's thoughts on modifying a set of wooden chess > pieces to distinguish the white pieces from the black pieces. They ahve > velt on the bottom, the king measures 3.75in high, with bases at 1.5in. I > do not remember if they are painted or natural woods; I think they are > painted, though. They are accompanying a chess board that I build, so no > modification on that score is necessary. They are double-weighted. > > Harry > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Fri Sep 25 10:36:48 2009 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <951573.63481.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What tool did you use for this? --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > From: Mark J. Cadigan > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 5:20 AM > I modified my set of wooden chess > pieces by flattening the tops of the black pieces and > rounding off the white ones. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:59 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess > Pieces > > > > Hello, > > > > I owuld like to get everyone's thoughts on modifying a > set of wooden chess pieces to distinguish the white pieces > from the black pieces.  They ahve velt on the bottom, > the king measures 3.75in high, with bases at 1.5in.  I > do not remember if they are painted or natural woods; I > think they are painted, though.  They are accompanying > a chess board that I build, so no modification on that score > is necessary.  They are double-weighted. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 11:37:57 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:37:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: <951573.63481.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <951573.63481.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I used a small file to start. Then I used 100 grit sand paper to smooth out the piece. I did the final sanding with with 300 grit sand paper. Then I put a clear high gloss lacquer over the entire piece for uniformity. Then i buffed this out with a polishing bit on a dremmal tool. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces What tool did you use for this? --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > From: Mark J. Cadigan > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 5:20 AM > I modified my set of wooden chess > pieces by flattening the tops of the black pieces and > rounding off the white ones. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:59 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess > Pieces > > > > Hello, > > > > I owuld like to get everyone's thoughts on modifying a > set of wooden chess pieces to distinguish the white pieces > from the black pieces. They ahve velt on the bottom, > the king measures 3.75in high, with bases at 1.5in. I > do not remember if they are painted or natural woods; I > think they are painted, though. They are accompanying > a chess board that I build, so no modification on that score > is necessary. They are double-weighted. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 11:43:55 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:43:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: <951573.63481.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <951573.63481.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <640C58AD7770443C82F793EC8E288C79@SonyPC> I used a small file to start. Then I used 100 grit sand paper to smooth out the piece. I did the final sanding with with 300 grit sand paper. Then I put a clear high gloss lacquer over the entire piece for uniformity. Then i buffed this out with a polishing bit on a dremmal tool. if they are painted you will have to repaint the pieces, but if they are natural I suggest stripping off the original varnish and reapplying it from scratch. This will give you a uniform finish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces What tool did you use for this? --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Mark J. Cadigan wrote: > From: Mark J. Cadigan > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 5:20 AM > I modified my set of wooden chess > pieces by flattening the tops of the black pieces and > rounding off the white ones. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:59 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess > Pieces > > > > Hello, > > > > I owuld like to get everyone's thoughts on modifying a > set of wooden chess pieces to distinguish the white pieces > from the black pieces. They ahve velt on the bottom, > the king measures 3.75in high, with bases at 1.5in. I > do not remember if they are painted or natural woods; I > think they are painted, though. They are accompanying > a chess board that I build, so no modification on that score > is necessary. They are double-weighted. > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From mewhalen at wisc.edu Fri Sep 25 12:42:40 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 07:42:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Note of Caution References: <85ff10070909222103m2841c59aode3c9480cc68e95d@mail.gmail.com> <12D8DC13CC0E4F11907631AF004DACA2@teal6e6857f643> <35C76463D2D245478F6AE4AA143F9264@Yoka> <64464CEF3FB24376BBE65614922FF4E7@teal6e6857f643> <9253B44194AE494981B63C6EFE555AF6@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: This was directed to the list as a whole. I'm not big on singling people out and making them feel uncomfortable, no. Meghan From liz.bottner at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 14:09:57 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:09:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4abccf1f.02c3f10a.1e06.2f91@mx.google.com> Hi, Accessible pieces are made already. One color is full while the other has a little of the top cut off. I have a set like that myself. You could do that to yours if you wanted. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From alberto.2500 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 14:09:47 2009 From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (Alberto Arreola) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:09:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: <8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com> <8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> Message-ID: <4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, and I'm now the only blind student at the university I go to. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i live because there is no one my age. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > Mark, > > I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind > friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That > is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the > stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. > > I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends > treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the > difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual acuity. > > Respectfully Submitted > Original message: >> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have lots >> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just seems >> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? > > > >> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people than >> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >> anyone else. > > > >> I would appreciate your thoughts, > > > >> Mark >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail .com From kramc11 at gmail.com Fri Sep 25 15:12:34 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:12:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: <4abccf1f.02c3f10a.1e06.2f91@mx.google.com> References: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4abccf1f.02c3f10a.1e06.2f91@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <552BA71BE09C4B97A40C7A32C5AB9D77@SonyPC> The adaptive pieces that are commercially available are not as nice as the ones they have for sighted players. If you modify your own pieces you will end up with a much higher quality product. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Liz Bottner" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces Hi, Accessible pieces are made already. One color is full while the other has a little of the top cut off. I have a set like that myself. You could do that to yours if you wanted. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 00:40:13 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:40:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com><8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> <4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was 45 minutes away from my highschool. >From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those who are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were friends to kid with them. Do you have similar feelings in your environment? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, and > I'm > now the only blind student at the university I go to. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Teal Bloodworth > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only > totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year > university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i live > because there is no one my age. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> Mark, >> >> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind >> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That >> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >> >> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends >> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >> acuity. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> Original message: >>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have lots >>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>> seems > >>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >> >> >> >>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>> than > >>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>> anyone else. >> >> >> >>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >> >> >> >>> Mark >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From mewhalen at wisc.edu Sat Sep 26 01:31:22 2009 From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:31:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com> <8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> <4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3819F930855E4BB68F1D141B9D67F3C0@Yoka> Smile, I think I've made a very similar joke amongst friends once or twice. I know this wasn't directed at me, but I was the only blind student at my high school, too. There had been blind students before me, including one Sean Whalen, so, I was dealing with little sister complex, too, but that's an entirely different subject. I wanted to make sure people at my school were educated, so I joined the school's diversity organization. I helped educate, and helped my principal to decide to have a half-day workshop for incoming freshman on acceptance and tolerance of people who are different from you. I really do think it got through to a lot of people. I spoke to all different age students around the district about overcoming false barriers that society sets for you and how your limits are only where you put them. Well, I'm getting off topic, but there's my own 2.5 cents. Best, meghan From kramc11 at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 02:28:41 2009 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:28:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com><8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643><4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I am the only blind student to ever attend my high school. I keep in contact with my blind friends outside of school, and it is good to talk and share ideas. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teal Bloodworth" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in > just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with > everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led > to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. I > thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course work > but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my school, it > was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i went to > highschool went to this college which was weird because it was 45 minutes > away from my highschool. > >>From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those who > are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different > personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing matter > i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my hands." I > would never use that but i would tell people that if they were friends to > kid with them. > > Do you have similar feelings in your environment? > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alberto Arreola" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, and >> I'm >> now the only blind student at the university I go to. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Teal Bloodworth >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only >> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >> live >> because there is no one my age. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jedi" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> >>> Mark, >>> >>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind >>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That >>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >>> >>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends >>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>> acuity. >>> >>> Respectfully Submitted >>> Original message: >>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>> lots >>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>> seems >> >>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >>> >>> >>> >>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>> than >> >>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>> anyone else. >>> >>> >>> >>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >>> >>> >>> >>>> Mark >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com From alberto.2500 at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 02:53:52 2009 From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (Alberto Arreola) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:53:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com><8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> <4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4abd8242.9713f30a.42cc.4b55@mx.google.com> I'm having an easy time in college everyone is really cool, and I haven't had problems with any studends. I'm usually a really easy person to get along with, and I don't view my disability as a disability just a little problem which I find ways around. I used to be friends with the majority of the football players in my high school, and I still am. We used to be quite a fun bunch of people. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Teal Bloodworth Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was 45 minutes away from my highschool. >From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those who are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were friends to kid with them. Do you have similar feelings in your environment? -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, and > I'm > now the only blind student at the university I go to. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Teal Bloodworth > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only > totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year > university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i live > because there is no one my age. > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jedi" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> Mark, >> >> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind >> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That >> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >> >> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends >> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >> acuity. >> >> Respectfully Submitted >> Original message: >>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have lots >>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>> seems > >>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >> >> >> >>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>> than > >>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>> anyone else. >> >> >> >>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >> >> >> >>> Mark >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > bile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma > il.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > .com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma il.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail .com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 13:11:06 2009 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:11:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com><8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643><4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003101ca3eaa$cf8087f0$2c01a8c0@DHQ5QJF1> I was the only blind student in my high school until my last year. I was also the first blind person to go threw the massage program at my local community college. Now I am the 5th blind student to attend at the school ware i am currently taking classes. Rania, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >I am the only blind student to ever attend my high school. I keep in >contact with my blind friends outside of school, and it is good to talk and >share ideas. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Teal Bloodworth" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in >> just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with >> everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led >> to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. >> I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course >> work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my >> school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i >> went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was 45 >> minutes away from my highschool. >> >>>From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those who >> are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different >> personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing matter >> i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my hands." >> I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were friends >> to kid with them. >> >> Do you have similar feelings in your environment? >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alberto Arreola" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> >>> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, and >>> I'm >>> now the only blind student at the university I go to. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Teal Bloodworth >>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>> >>> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only >>> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >>> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >>> live >>> because there is no one my age. >>> >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jedi" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>> >>> >>>> Mark, >>>> >>>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my >>>> blind >>>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. >>>> That >>>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >>>> >>>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted >>>> friends >>>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>>> acuity. >>>> >>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>> Original message: >>>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are >>>>> also >>>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>>> lots >>>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>>> seems >>> >>>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>>> than >>> >>>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>>> anyone else. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma >>> il.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>> .com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com > From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sat Sep 26 12:25:43 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:25:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com><8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643> <4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4ABE0847.4010900@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Teal, Once again I find myself laughing at a comment in this thread because I've used that "I see with my hands" line when joking with someone. The thing is, you've gotta be careful who you say that too. Not because you might offend someone, I'm careful enough to avoid that. But because I've had them counter with, "That sounds like fun. Go ahead." They were joking of course. I think. But what do you say in response to something like that? LOL I'm not really expecting an answer to that by the way. I told you all about it so you could get some of the amusement I experienced remembering it. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, Teal Bloodworth wrote: > just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in > just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with > everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led > to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. > I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course > work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my > school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i > went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was > 45 minutes away from my highschool. > >> From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those who > are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different > personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing > matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my > hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were > friends to kid with them. > > Do you have similar feelings in your environment? > > -Teal > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" > > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, >> and I'm >> now the only blind student at the university I go to. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Teal Bloodworth >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only >> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >> live >> because there is no one my age. >> >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >> >> >>> Mark, >>> >>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind >>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That >>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >>> >>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends >>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>> acuity. >>> >>> Respectfully Submitted >>> Original message: >>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>> lots >>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>> seems >> >>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >>> >>> >>> >>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>> than >> >>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>> anyone else. >>> >>> >>> >>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >>> >>> >>> >>>> Mark >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >> >> bile.net >>> >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma >> >> il.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >> >> .com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKvghHAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq51YH/3Ey65HNaNjSRsZiv86PPIYU KGPstFGk6ae/HL6fkXsto1zGG4PeZ0wf0G8pB+MJgCy0g+1+JDqa+iLxuKgrMCj4 h0n4BXXsULeaisU/bCbVdqBmu6OXSPEJB685tUWdF3kegnftn1xg9bYZ88qd/kRe 5WpMbJLA65pKxMrjBKpbzmHquFDzzVlZ2TBauUjWVyAI19IxLNECynulJ+ZgaeUA EjA3PYLhNO0A0bgpyRufdUQEkYnY5hMcsDDHcacPBrcP8L8l0eazMGHHKK77PgAU xADsNy6RbDDPIkNViXIgPtmFvb47DIelw5cSsRKrtkIJ2+42Ee+DxK6dCuVtPmI= =JMxY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From liz.bottner at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 13:26:44 2009 From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:26:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Thoughts on Modifying Wooden Chess Pieces In-Reply-To: <552BA71BE09C4B97A40C7A32C5AB9D77@SonyPC> References: <571862.80592.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4abccf1f.02c3f10a.1e06.2f91@mx.google.com> <552BA71BE09C4B97A40C7A32C5AB9D77@SonyPC> Message-ID: <4abe167f.48c3f10a.387a.ffffed1f@mx.google.com> My pieces work fine for me, but whatever works for you. Liz email: liz.bottner at gmail.com Visit my livejournal: http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com  Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/lizbot From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 16:35:25 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:35:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090925011005.2277.24935@web2.serotek.com><8E85D54C27DF4C1CAC340E99D4133BD5@teal6e6857f643><4abccf2b.161bf30a.450b.ffff8703@mx.google.com> <3819F930855E4BB68F1D141B9D67F3C0@Yoka> Message-ID: <1920061D6FD44F21B50F1FD02CBFED6F@teal6e6857f643> haha it wasnt really directed to any one person. I know what you mean about little sister syndrom. There had been a guy with alittle vision...he said "like looking through a straw". He was brilliant and wanted to be a priest. Was not there my first semester at the 4 year but was there the 2nd. Loved him Community college, with the people that i went to highschool with even, was not as accepting. Like i said they were people from before that didnt realize i was still the same person but then in the 4 year college it was brilliantly real life and i made some real lifetime friends I just dont understand it. And one person said they were challenged by it rather than defined by it. Some people treat blindness as a leparcee but i hope those people meet a blind person to see that we are just as real as they are...its just easier to sleep in or take a mid day nap haha. And yes my kidding pick up line is when around a select group of people. And it was always proceeding a laugh. I also had the "well then okay" jokingly or the "well hell you touch me enough when you are walking around with the lights off". I had a friend who was very short and would stand in a distance yelling "hey Teal can you see me?" i would reply with no you are blending into the ground or i would say objects may appear smaller at a long distance. Me and my friends could do this because we were all young single adults there for the right reason and only that. Real people that were just likeable. ok there is my testimony haha -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meghan Whalen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > Smile, I think I've made a very similar joke amongst friends once or > twice. > > I know this wasn't directed at me, but I was the only blind student at my > high school, too. There had been blind students before me, including one > Sean Whalen, so, I was dealing with little sister complex, too, but that's > an entirely different subject. > > I wanted to make sure people at my school were educated, so I joined the > school's diversity organization. I helped educate, and helped my > principal to decide to have a half-day workshop for incoming freshman on > acceptance and tolerance of people who are different from you. I really > do think it got through to a lot of people. > > I spoke to all different age students around the district about overcoming > false barriers that society sets for you and how your limits are only > where you put them. > > Well, I'm getting off topic, but there's my own 2.5 cents. > > Best, > meghan > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Sat Sep 26 16:56:55 2009 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:56:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff Message-ID: <20090926165655.781.16416@web2.serotek.com> NABSters: I try to be excessively careful when joking like that in case my friends actually think that's how they should interact with another blind person they might meet. After all, that's how this thread got started. One blind guy joked with a sighted friend that he could identify her by smell since her perfume is strong and unusual. As a result, she got it in her head that all blind people did this and thus stuck her wrist in front of my nose at first meeting with the invitation to become familiar with her scent. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > Teal, > Once again I find myself laughing at a comment in this thread because > I've used that "I see with my hands" line when joking with someone. The > thing is, you've gotta be careful who you say that too. Not because you > might offend someone, I'm careful enough to avoid that. But because I've > had them counter with, "That sounds like fun. Go ahead." They were > joking of course. I think. But what do you say in response to something > like that? LOL I'm not really expecting an answer to that by the way. I > told you all about it so you could get some of the amusement I > experienced remembering it. > - -- > Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those > of us who actually do. > Joseph C. Lininger, > Teal Bloodworth wrote: >> just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in >> just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with >> everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led >> to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. >> I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course >> work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my >> school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i >> went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was >> 45 minutes away from my highschool. >>> From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those who >> are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different >> personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing >> matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my >> hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were >> friends to kid with them. >> Do you have similar feelings in your environment? >> -Teal >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" >> >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, >>> and I'm >>> now the only blind student at the university I go to. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Teal Bloodworth >>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and only >>> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >>> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >>> live >>> because there is no one my age. >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff >>>> Mark, >>>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my blind >>>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. That >>>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. >>>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted friends >>>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>>> acuity. >>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>> Original message: >>>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are also >>>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>>> lots >>>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and otherwise >>>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>>> seems >>>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my finger >>>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be true? >>>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>>> than >>>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with the >>>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just because >>>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>>> anyone else. >>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, >>>>> Mark >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo >>> bile.net >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma >>> il.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail >>> .com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKvghHAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq51YH/3Ey65HNaNjSRsZiv86PPIYU > KGPstFGk6ae/HL6fkXsto1zGG4PeZ0wf0G8pB+MJgCy0g+1+JDqa+iLxuKgrMCj4 > h0n4BXXsULeaisU/bCbVdqBmu6OXSPEJB685tUWdF3kegnftn1xg9bYZ88qd/kRe > 5WpMbJLA65pKxMrjBKpbzmHquFDzzVlZ2TBauUjWVyAI19IxLNECynulJ+ZgaeUA > EjA3PYLhNO0A0bgpyRufdUQEkYnY5hMcsDDHcacPBrcP8L8l0eazMGHHKK77PgAU > xADsNy6RbDDPIkNViXIgPtmFvb47DIelw5cSsRKrtkIJ2+42Ee+DxK6dCuVtPmI= > =JMxY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 17:47:31 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:47:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090926165655.781.16416@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <8A05AF818E0B4065AEC4F54974E62EFB@TheDoubleD> Hello! I'm not going to blame the guy who made the joke though. I mean, he was trying to be funny or maybe just make a casual statement. But either way, he had no way of knowing that she was going to think that all blind people identified sighted people that way. I imagine he was addressing his situation with her, and not talking about all blind people from what I understand of the intro of this topic. And if she took it that literally, that's not his fault. It's her's for not seeing it for the light comment/joke it was and/or for not asking him to confirm or deny her theory about how blind people identify others. Just my thoughts. >From David __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4459 (20090926) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 19:52:06 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:52:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090926165655.781.16416@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: <1B7C0F1089E2434598CAC57161D0FDDF@teal6e6857f643> Yes but what i am saying is not just to the general public. I guess the people at this school are on a different mentality of what you are thinking. When i say friends that means they are this way around me. My second semester when Jamey, the guy i spoke of came back me and him were completely different from one another. He was very active in the church and ministry on campus while i was in a social work program with alot of friends on campus while attending all social events like dances or even basketball games. They really got off lucky because we were different in a very blunt way but yet we were both very friendly and spoke to everyone. Yes the baseball team spoke to me much more than Jamey but he did live under them and one day their toilet overflowed and it was a shitty situation. I know where you are coming from but i am talking about in a college situation rather than an place of employment. No this would not be appropriate but in a friendly small college atmosphere where you know everybody very well and who to kid with or put on your business face. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > NABSters: > > I try to be excessively careful when joking like that in case my friends > actually think that's how they should interact with another blind person > they might meet. After all, that's how this thread got started. One blind > guy joked with a sighted friend that he could identify her by smell since > her perfume is strong and unusual. As a result, she got it in her head > that all blind people did this and thus stuck her wrist in front of my > nose at first meeting with the invitation to become familiar with her > scent. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 > >> Teal, >> Once again I find myself laughing at a comment in this thread because >> I've used that "I see with my hands" line when joking with someone. The >> thing is, you've gotta be careful who you say that too. Not because you >> might offend someone, I'm careful enough to avoid that. But because I've >> had them counter with, "That sounds like fun. Go ahead." They were >> joking of course. I think. But what do you say in response to something >> like that? LOL I'm not really expecting an answer to that by the way. I >> told you all about it so you could get some of the amusement I >> experienced remembering it. >> - -- >> Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those >> of us who actually do. >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> Teal Bloodworth wrote: >>> just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in >>> just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with >>> everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led >>> to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. >>> I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course >>> work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my >>> school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i >>> went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was >>> 45 minutes away from my highschool. > >>>> From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those >>>> who >>> are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different >>> personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing >>> matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my >>> hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were >>> friends to kid with them. > >>> Do you have similar feelings in your environment? > >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" >>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>>> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, >>>> and I'm >>>> now the only blind student at the university I go to. > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Teal Bloodworth >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > >>>> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and >>>> only >>>> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >>>> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >>>> live >>>> because there is no one my age. > >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>>>> Mark, > >>>>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my >>>>> blind >>>>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. >>>>> That >>>>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>>>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. > >>>>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted >>>>> friends >>>>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>>>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>>>> acuity. > >>>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are >>>>>> also >>>>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>>>> lots >>>>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and >>>>>> otherwise >>>>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>>>> seems > >>>>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my >>>>>> finger >>>>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be >>>>>> true? > > > >>>>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>>>> than > >>>>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with >>>>>> the >>>>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just >>>>>> because >>>>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>>>> anyone else. > > > >>>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, > > > >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > >>>> bile.net > >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma > >>>> il.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > >>>> .com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKvghHAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq51YH/3Ey65HNaNjSRsZiv86PPIYU >> KGPstFGk6ae/HL6fkXsto1zGG4PeZ0wf0G8pB+MJgCy0g+1+JDqa+iLxuKgrMCj4 >> h0n4BXXsULeaisU/bCbVdqBmu6OXSPEJB685tUWdF3kegnftn1xg9bYZ88qd/kRe >> 5WpMbJLA65pKxMrjBKpbzmHquFDzzVlZ2TBauUjWVyAI19IxLNECynulJ+ZgaeUA >> EjA3PYLhNO0A0bgpyRufdUQEkYnY5hMcsDDHcacPBrcP8L8l0eazMGHHKK77PgAU >> xADsNy6RbDDPIkNViXIgPtmFvb47DIelw5cSsRKrtkIJ2+42Ee+DxK6dCuVtPmI= >> =JMxY >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From jbahm at pcdesk.net Sun Sep 27 10:44:22 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 04:44:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] request for comments Message-ID: <4ABF4206.3040206@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Good morning listers, I would like to invite you to check out my revamped web site. http://www.pcdesk.net The writing section is the part that has the most information on it at this time. In particular, I think many of you will find observations on braille of interest. The direct link to that is: http://www.pcdesk.net/writing/braille1.html I encourage you to browse the entire site if you have the time though. I'm looking for input from both technical people like myself and non-techies. Feel free to comment on anything from organization to material on the site to slaughtering my grammar. I am planning to add more information to the site over the next few months. IN particular, I plan on adding several guides and shorter articles to the writing section, as well as adding a few of my programming projects to the projects section. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKv0IGAAoJEMh8jNraUiwqrCsH/2xUrJLVLA1J+u5H0ylghMne ECHJ5cz9Zw1ZIo9iDy/I7ftqzOi0utQqz/Rod1ThqP3XJa9cNQ3Ku3VQstlSFWUK IWzZjggH0jV3y9hNFxSA6lOoBoBPCdAD1cTkkqCtBi1iZzNn9yZxfkbLC5TdNHAy M9p6cv6lHKkUdHquoiFZf6vXyxA0Qm3YeCMqp71FPuETHPqLS7ncqyX0ufwMblYU m6EHSuFCp+MA8tB55a6AhS1pVhwftnwQPx3TnILobNiafbJL/MrnuPLbz9Yj4TAJ Dbhe1/ppfVpHC7lhxpiqjiyMg6K3Er9tyvPhUs/fl+DOGsC4tnpTGPEoqIRMX4A= =yFeO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 17:34:22 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:34:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090926165655.781.16416@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: okay well if thats how you are meaning. I feel you should politely tell the person that action and behavior is not appropriate in a public setting to someone you are not familiar with. It sounds to be an immaturity behavior...how old is this person? There should be an understanding since we are a minority meaning there is not really that many as far as demographics. I liked when a person on here said they actually help teach people how to act towards the disabled. It sounds to me like this person would be this way towards sighted friends as well acting in a joking manner. Maybe i am wrong but do you not act differently around your friends than the general public? With us being blind we are more cautious in our behaviors in public because we have to be. We cannot read peoples facial expressions or gestures to have a better understanding of what they are trying to say or the point they are trying to get across. If you are going to fight me on what i meant on being cautious thats the whole conversation on having facial expressions being blind and i have the answer to that as well. It doesnt matter if you can see or not as an infant your parents teach you through audible facial expressions. That is kind of what i meant on certain words you cannot say without making the appropriate facial expression. Meaning you cannot say Grr with a smile on your face, yes without a smile...smile without a smile. Your parents teach you social language as an infant giving you a social smile and appropriate behavior in public. We are people too and you cannot single those who are ignorant and sighted any differently than you want them to treat you. Thats the golden rule and just understand respectably to the ignorance rather than be offended unless this action is repeated by the same person over and over after being explained of it's offensiveness. -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > NABSters: > > I try to be excessively careful when joking like that in case my friends > actually think that's how they should interact with another blind person > they might meet. After all, that's how this thread got started. One blind > guy joked with a sighted friend that he could identify her by smell since > her perfume is strong and unusual. As a result, she got it in her head > that all blind people did this and thus stuck her wrist in front of my > nose at first meeting with the invitation to become familiar with her > scent. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 > >> Teal, >> Once again I find myself laughing at a comment in this thread because >> I've used that "I see with my hands" line when joking with someone. The >> thing is, you've gotta be careful who you say that too. Not because you >> might offend someone, I'm careful enough to avoid that. But because I've >> had them counter with, "That sounds like fun. Go ahead." They were >> joking of course. I think. But what do you say in response to something >> like that? LOL I'm not really expecting an answer to that by the way. I >> told you all about it so you could get some of the amusement I >> experienced remembering it. >> - -- >> Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those >> of us who actually do. >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> Teal Bloodworth wrote: >>> just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in >>> just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with >>> everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led >>> to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. >>> I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course >>> work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my >>> school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i >>> went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was >>> 45 minutes away from my highschool. > >>>> From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those >>>> who >>> are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different >>> personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing >>> matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my >>> hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were >>> friends to kid with them. > >>> Do you have similar feelings in your environment? > >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" >>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>>> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, >>>> and I'm >>>> now the only blind student at the university I go to. > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Teal Bloodworth >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > >>>> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and >>>> only >>>> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >>>> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >>>> live >>>> because there is no one my age. > >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>>>> Mark, > >>>>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my >>>>> blind >>>>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. >>>>> That >>>>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>>>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. > >>>>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted >>>>> friends >>>>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>>>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>>>> acuity. > >>>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are >>>>>> also >>>>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>>>> lots >>>>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and >>>>>> otherwise >>>>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>>>> seems > >>>>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my >>>>>> finger >>>>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be >>>>>> true? > > > >>>>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>>>> than > >>>>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with >>>>>> the >>>>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just >>>>>> because >>>>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>>>> anyone else. > > > >>>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, > > > >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > >>>> bile.net > >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma > >>>> il.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > >>>> .com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKvghHAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq51YH/3Ey65HNaNjSRsZiv86PPIYU >> KGPstFGk6ae/HL6fkXsto1zGG4PeZ0wf0G8pB+MJgCy0g+1+JDqa+iLxuKgrMCj4 >> h0n4BXXsULeaisU/bCbVdqBmu6OXSPEJB685tUWdF3kegnftn1xg9bYZ88qd/kRe >> 5WpMbJLA65pKxMrjBKpbzmHquFDzzVlZ2TBauUjWVyAI19IxLNECynulJ+ZgaeUA >> EjA3PYLhNO0A0bgpyRufdUQEkYnY5hMcsDDHcacPBrcP8L8l0eazMGHHKK77PgAU >> xADsNy6RbDDPIkNViXIgPtmFvb47DIelw5cSsRKrtkIJ2+42Ee+DxK6dCuVtPmI= >> =JMxY >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From tealbloodworth at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 17:36:28 2009 From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:36:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Social Stuff References: <20090926165655.781.16416@web2.serotek.com> Message-ID: oh yeah and i have people i can identify by smelling them. Abercrombie is very strong as well as some hollister perfume or cologne also there are people that just smell bad -Teal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > NABSters: > > I try to be excessively careful when joking like that in case my friends > actually think that's how they should interact with another blind person > they might meet. After all, that's how this thread got started. One blind > guy joked with a sighted friend that he could identify her by smell since > her perfume is strong and unusual. As a result, she got it in her head > that all blind people did this and thus stuck her wrist in front of my > nose at first meeting with the invitation to become familiar with her > scent. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA256 > >> Teal, >> Once again I find myself laughing at a comment in this thread because >> I've used that "I see with my hands" line when joking with someone. The >> thing is, you've gotta be careful who you say that too. Not because you >> might offend someone, I'm careful enough to avoid that. But because I've >> had them counter with, "That sounds like fun. Go ahead." They were >> joking of course. I think. But what do you say in response to something >> like that? LOL I'm not really expecting an answer to that by the way. I >> told you all about it so you could get some of the amusement I >> experienced remembering it. >> - -- >> Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those >> of us who actually do. >> Joseph C. Lininger, >> Teal Bloodworth wrote: >>> just be sturn almost stubborn in asking questions and dont try to fit in >>> just be yourself. college is much easier but its not. I was friends with >>> everybody that i went to highschool with before my car accident that led >>> to my vision loss and it was awkward because they didnt know how to act. >>> I thought college would be easier and it is but it isnt. Harder course >>> work but easier social interaction because with the diversity in my >>> school, it was a very openminded and nonjudge mental and no one that i >>> went to highschool went to this college which was weird because it was >>> 45 minutes away from my highschool. > >>>> From a personal view there is not much difference in going with those >>>> who >>> are sighted or those who are not. Everyone will have different >>> personalities that you will either like or not like. In a laughing >>> matter i had a good pick up line..."i cant see so i have to see with my >>> hands." I would never use that but i would tell people that if they were >>> friends to kid with them. > >>> Do you have similar feelings in your environment? > >>> -Teal >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto Arreola" >>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 9:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>>> That goes for me. I was the only blind student in my hight school, >>>> and I'm >>>> now the only blind student at the university I go to. > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Teal Bloodworth >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > >>>> that must be nice for all of you. in highschool i was the first and >>>> only >>>> totally blind person, at my community college same and at the four year >>>> university same. I guess i dont really have any blind friends where i >>>> live >>>> because there is no one my age. > >>>> -Teal >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:10 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Stuff > > >>>>> Mark, > >>>>> I also find that many of my friends are blind. However, many of my >>>>> blind >>>>> friends are struggling with their blindness more than I seem to be. >>>>> That >>>>> is to say that some of them deny their blindness while others live the >>>>> stereotypes. Some of my best friends are sighted. > >>>>> I haven't noticed a remarkable difference between how my sighted >>>>> friends >>>>> treat me versus how my blind friends treat me. I think what makes the >>>>> difference is philosophical understanding of blindness, not visual >>>>> acuity. > >>>>> Respectfully Submitted >>>>> Original message: >>>>>> Reading this thread makes me think; most of my closest friends are >>>>>> also >>>>>> blind. This is not to say that I don't have sighted friends, I have >>>>>> lots >>>>>> of friends that are sighted. I go to a mainstream school and >>>>>> otherwise >>>>>> fully participate in everything that my sighted friends do. It just >>>>>> seems > >>>>>> like my sighted colleagues still treat me differently than they would >>>>>> treat another sighted classmate. It's nothing that I can put my >>>>>> finger >>>>>> on, just an impression I get. Do any of you also find this to be >>>>>> true? > > > >>>>>> Also do you find that it is easier to make friends with blind people >>>>>> than > >>>>>> sighted people? I think it is, because you don't have to deal with >>>>>> the >>>>>> blindness thing. I mean you don't have to teach them that just >>>>>> because >>>>>> your eyes don't work it doesn't make you drastically different than >>>>>> anyone else. > > > >>>>>> I would appreciate your thoughts, > > > >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo > >>>> bile.net > >>>>> -- >>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: > >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gma > >>>> il.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail > >>>> .com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > >> iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKvghHAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq51YH/3Ey65HNaNjSRsZiv86PPIYU >> KGPstFGk6ae/HL6fkXsto1zGG4PeZ0wf0G8pB+MJgCy0g+1+JDqa+iLxuKgrMCj4 >> h0n4BXXsULeaisU/bCbVdqBmu6OXSPEJB685tUWdF3kegnftn1xg9bYZ88qd/kRe >> 5WpMbJLA65pKxMrjBKpbzmHquFDzzVlZ2TBauUjWVyAI19IxLNECynulJ+ZgaeUA >> EjA3PYLhNO0A0bgpyRufdUQEkYnY5hMcsDDHcacPBrcP8L8l0eazMGHHKK77PgAU >> xADsNy6RbDDPIkNViXIgPtmFvb47DIelw5cSsRKrtkIJ2+42Ee+DxK6dCuVtPmI= >> =JMxY >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tealbloodworth%40gmail.com > From fowlers at syix.com Tue Sep 29 00:37:30 2009 From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela fowler) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:37:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program Message-ID: <27F571B7A82143E69C65B8BA8D85105E@angelab> Hello everyone, Please distribute this to all students who may be interested. _____ Announcing 2010 Opportunities for B/VI Students to Explore the Globe Here at Global Explorers, we are passionate about providing the most comprehensive and genuine travel experience available to students and educators of all backgrounds and abilities. We are a non-profit organization committed to sustainable tourism and responsible global citizenship. Developed in partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer Erik Weihenmayer, Global Explorers' nationally-recognized Leading the Way program is our only individual enrollment program. As of this year, students of all physical abilities between the ages of 14 and 21 are welcome to apply. Leading the Way integrates science, service, leadership, and culture, resulting in a life-changing adventure. Far more than just a fun trip, each expedition involves preparatory curriculum prior to travel and a service leadership project post travel. By making necessary accommodations and focusing on what participants can do, the program prepares students to act on the passions they discover. Through their unique stories, the teams help spread messages of hope and inspiration, while breaking down barriers between those with and without disabilities. In summer 2010, we are offering two expeditions: Rim to River Expedition: Grand Canyon, Arizona, USA July 6-20, 2010 | Price Range: $2,100-2,700 Exact price TBD | We help you fundraise! In partnership with Grand Canyon Youth (www.gcyouth.org ), this program provides a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for students of all abilities to explore the wonders of the Grand Canyon from its majestic rim to its world-renowned river. Yucatan Leadership Program, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico July 10-18, 2010 | Price range: $2,100-2,700 Exact price TBD | We help you fundraise! This team will explore leadership development as they venture through the renowned ruins of the Maya Civilization, explore the colorful reefs of the Sian Ka'an Biosphere, kayak along ancient Maya trade routes and swim with the world's largest fish: the whale shark! What You Can Do Please encourage students to visit our website to learn more about our program. Students can apply at: http://globalexplorers.wufoo.com/forms/leading-the-way-application/. The application deadline is November 15. We rely on your recommendations! Please nominate a student online: http://globalexplorers.wufoo.com/forms/2010-nomination-form/ and we will follow up with him/her. To discuss other ways to get involved or to request additional info or material preferences (Braille, LP), please contact me at laura at globalexplorers.org or 1-877-627-1425. Sincerely, Laura Portalupi Leading the Way Intern Global Explorers 420 S. Howes St. Suite B300 Fort Collins, CO 80521 www.globalexplorers.org laura at globalexplorers.org (office) 877.627.1425 (fax) 970.672.1073 From serenacucco at verizon.net Tue Sep 29 00:52:43 2009 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:52:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program References: <27F571B7A82143E69C65B8BA8D85105E@angelab> Message-ID: <004c01ca409f$2727add0$0401a8c0@Serene> Although I've never participated, I have a friend who did ... I think she went to Peru. She had a great time! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela fowler" To: ; "'NFB of California List'" ; "'General Discussion List for Writers'" ; "'Writer's Division Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 8:37 PM Subject: [nabs-l] FW: The Global Explorers Leading the Way Program > Hello everyone, > Please distribute this to all students who may be interested. > > > _____ > > > > > Announcing 2010 Opportunities for B/VI Students to Explore the Globe > > > Here at Global Explorers, we are passionate about providing the most > comprehensive and genuine travel experience available to students and > educators of all backgrounds and abilities. We are a non-profit > organization > committed to sustainable tourism and responsible global citizenship. > > Developed in partnership with world-renowned blind adventurer Erik > Weihenmayer, Global Explorers' nationally-recognized Leading the Way > program > is our only individual enrollment program. As of this year, students of > all > physical abilities between the ages of 14 and 21 are welcome to apply. > Leading the Way integrates science, service, leadership, and culture, > resulting in a life-changing adventure. Far more than just a fun trip, > each > expedition involves preparatory curriculum prior to travel and a service > leadership project post travel. > > By making necessary accommodations and focusing on what participants can > do, > the program prepares students to act on the passions they discover. > Through > their unique stories, the teams help spread messages of hope and > inspiration, while breaking down barriers between those with and without > disabilities. > > In summer 2010, we are offering two expeditions: > > Rim to River Expedition: Grand Canyon, Arizona, USA > > July 6-20, 2010 | Price Range: $2,100-2,700 Exact price TBD | We help you > fundraise! > > In partnership with Grand Canyon Youth (www.gcyouth.org > ), this program provides a once-in-a-lifetime > opportunity for students of all abilities to explore the wonders of the > Grand Canyon from its majestic rim to its world-renowned river. > > Yucatan Leadership Program, Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico > > July 10-18, 2010 | Price range: $2,100-2,700 Exact price TBD | We help you > fundraise! > > This team will explore leadership development as they venture through the > renowned ruins of the Maya Civilization, explore the colorful reefs of the > Sian Ka'an Biosphere, kayak along ancient Maya trade routes and swim with > the world's largest fish: the whale shark! > > What You Can Do > > Please encourage students to visit our website to learn more about our > program. Students can apply at: > http://globalexplorers.wufoo.com/forms/leading-the-way-application/. The > application deadline is November 15. > > We rely on your recommendations! Please nominate a student online: > http://globalexplorers.wufoo.com/forms/2010-nomination-form/ and we will > follow up with him/her. > > > To discuss other ways to get involved or to request additional info or > material preferences (Braille, LP), please contact me at > laura at globalexplorers.org or 1-877-627-1425. > > Sincerely, > > > Laura Portalupi > > > Leading the Way Intern > Global Explorers > 420 S. Howes St. Suite B300 > Fort Collins, CO 80521 > www.globalexplorers.org > > laura at globalexplorers.org > > (office) 877.627.1425 > > (fax) 970.672.1073 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From dandrews at visi.com Tue Sep 29 06:36:55 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:36:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Welcomes the Hope Bus Tour Message-ID: > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASe > > > > > >CONTACT: > >Chris Danielsen > >Director of Public Relations > >National Federation of the Blind > >(410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > >(410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >cdanielsen at nfb.org > > >National Federation of the Blind Welcomes the Hope Bus Tour > > > > > >Hope Bus Tour Will Visit 50 Charities in 50 Days > >Baltimore, Maryland (September 28, 2009): The >National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the >oldest and largest organization of blind people >in the United States, will welcome the Hope Bus >Tour to the NFB Jernigan Institute in Baltimore >on September 29. The Hope Bus Tour is visiting >fifty pre-selected charities in fifty days, >raising public awareness of charities that are >doing exceptional work in their communities to >improve the lives of people who are in need. > > > >Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National >Federation of the Blind, said: “We are truly >honored to be one of the fifty charities that >the Hope Bus Tour has chosen to highlight. The >occasion could not be better timed, as the >National Federation of the Blind has undertaken >the largest Braille literacy campaign in history >this year. Nine out of ten blind children in >"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" >/>America’s public schools do not know and are >not being taught how to read and write using >Braille. The education of tens of thousands of >blind children across the nation and the >successful rehabilitation of adults who are >losing vision depend on our success, and the >exposure from the Hope Bus Tour will certainly >help us reach out to members of our community and beyond.” > > > >Congress authorized the minting in 2009 of >400,000 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver >Dollars to mark the two-hundredth anniversary of >the birth of Louis Braille (1809–1852) and to >support the efforts of the National Federation >of the Blind to promote literacy among blind >Americans. This unique and beautiful >commemorative coin is the first U.S. currency to >feature tactile, readable Braille. These coins >will no longer be available after December 31, >2009. A portion of the money from sales of the >2009 Louis Braille Bicentennial Silver Dollar >will be used to support the NFB’s “Braille >Readers are Leaders” campaign, a national >initiative created to double the number of blind >children learning Braille by 2015, improve >certification standards for teachers of Braille, >and conduct innovative programs to support Braille literacy. > > > >Those interested in ordering a Louis Braille >Bicentennial Silver Dollar should visit >www.braille.org or >call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). For more >information about the National Federation of the >Blind and the Braille Readers are Leaders >campaign, visit www.braille.org. > > > > > >### > > > >About the National Federation of the Blind > >With more than 50,000 members, the National >Federation of the Blind is the largest and most >influential membership organization of blind >people in the United States. The NFB improves >blind people’s lives through advocacy, >education, research, technology, and programs >encouraging independence and >self-confidence. It is the leading force in the >blindness field today and the voice of the >nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened >the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan >Institute, the first research and training >center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, >version of virus signature database 4465 (20090928) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue Sep 29 07:38:35 2009 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 02:38:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Books settlement Delayed Indefinitely Message-ID: September 24, 2009, 6:34 pm Google Books Settlement Delayed Indefinitely By Miguel Helft As currently written, the controversial settlement between Google and groups representing publishers and authors is officially dead. On Thursday, a federal judge gave the parties time to negotiate a new deal that would address some of the many objections filed by various groups. Judge Denny Chin of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York granted a motion to delay an Oct. 7 hearing on the settlement, which would pave the way for Google to create an immense digital library and bookstore. The motion was filed earlier this week by the Authors Guild and the Association of American Publishers, the plaintiffs in the case, and was unopposed by Google, the defendant. Judge Chin said that it made no sense to hold a hearing on the current settlement since the parties have indicated that they are negotiating significant changes to it. In his order , Judge Chin indicated that he took seriously the long list of objections that various parties have raised about the agreement. "The current settlement agreement raises significant issues, as demonstrated not only by the number of objections, but also by the fact that the objectors include countries, states, nonprofit organizations, and prominent authors and law professors," Judge Chin wrote. "Clearly, fair concerns have been raised." But Judge Chin also echoed comments made by the Justice Department last week that the settlement, if properly revised, could offer great benefits, most notably, by providing broad access to millions of out-of-print books that are largely locked up in a small group of university libraries. "The settlement would offer many benefits to society, as recognized by supporters of the settlement as well as D.O.J.," he wrote, referring to the Department of Justice , which filed its own brief in the case last week. "It would appear that if a fair and reasonable settlement can be struck, the public would benefit." The first clear signs that the settlement in its current form would be derailed came late Friday, when the Justice Department raised a number of legal and antitrust objections to it. In its brief, the department also said that the parties appeared willing to renegotiate many aspects of the agreement to overcome its opposition The decision by the plaintiffs to ask for more time represents a stark reversal from earlier this year. In April, a group of authors and the heirs of others, including representatives of the estate of John Steinbeck, first asked the court to delay the fairness hearing and deadline for filing objections. The authors asked for a four-month delay, and the parties, eager to have the agreement approved quickly, reluctantly recommended a two-month delay. Judge Chin sided with the authors. Observers say the delay provided the time necessary for the many critics of the deal, including the Justice Department, to come forward. The court received more than 400 filings, the majority of them raising issues about various parts of the agreement. Instead of the scheduled fairness hearing, Judge Chin asked the parties to convene in court on Oct. 7 for a status conference. The purpose of the conference is to "determine how to proceed with the case as expeditiously as possible, as this case has now been pending for more than four years," he wrote. The Authors Guild and the Association of American sued Google in 2005 for copyright infringement over the company's plan to scan books from major libraries and make them available online. The parties announced the settlement, which took two years to negotiate, in October. The settlement also appears to be facing another challenge in a French court. From mohnked at hotmail.com Tue Sep 29 17:08:07 2009 From: mohnked at hotmail.com (Diana Mohnke) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:08:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NFB MI State Convention Flyer In-Reply-To: <182625.38019.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <182625.38019.qm@web65703.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello, Below is a message I received regarding our upcoming NFB of Michigan state convention. The convention is being held November 6-8 in Grand Rapids, MI. Please see the attached informational flyer for more information. Diana Mohnke --- On Mon, 9/28/09, Kim Mohnke wrote: From: Kim Mohnke Subject: NFB State Convention Flyer To: kitties_kimmy at yahoo.com Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 10:49 PM Hello, I am with the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan contacting you about our upcoming State Convention. Attached you will find an informational flyer about this exciting event. If you received this through the mail and through this email you only have to respond once. Feel free to pass this flyer along to anyone you think can benefit from attending. We welcome all to our convention. Hope to see all your bright smiling faces at our convention. Kimberly Mohnke NFB Lansing Chapter Secretary _________________________________________________________________ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing™ now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2009 State Convention flyer.doc Type: application/msword Size: 50688 bytes Desc: not available URL: From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Tue Sep 29 17:59:28 2009 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 13:59:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Another Captcha Service To Help The Blind Message-ID: <82F58EFE542D465AA377D90C93CBF0C2@TheDoubleD> Hi All! I imagine some of you have heard of the web visum add-on for Firefox which allows for those visual captchas to be solved. I want to make you aware of another service called Solona, which can be found at http://www.solona.net What makes this service unique is that humans solve the captchas for you instead of a computer/bot. Below I have linked to a podcast that my friend Hope and I produced that we hope will appear on BlindCoolTech that explains how this service works. Since we all deal with these annoying captchas, I thought it would be appropriate to post here. The url to download this podcast is http://tinyurl.com/yad9gxf Feel free to share this with your blind friends too. Best regards, David Dunphy http://www.radio360.us __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4468 (20090929) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kayleigh281 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 29 23:43:21 2009 From: kayleigh281 at yahoo.com (Kayleigh Joiner) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Unit Circle Message-ID: <666093.26776.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello listers, This is Kayleigh from Texas. I am currently taking pre-calculus and we have started covering the unit circle. I am not aware of anything that is available for the blind concerning this topic. If anyone has any suggesstions they would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Kayleigh From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 01:00:17 2009 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 20:00:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Unit Circle In-Reply-To: <666093.26776.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <666093.26776.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kayleigh, What you could do is, if you have a Braille protractor and one of those tactile boards from APH you could draw one. I supose one could also draw it with a Braille protractor, a stylus, and Braille paper. Let me know if this helps. Hoping you are well, Jordan 2009/9/29 Kayleigh Joiner > Hello listers, > This is Kayleigh from Texas. I am currently taking pre-calculus and we have > started covering the unit circle. I am not aware of anything that is > available for the blind concerning this topic. If anyone has any > suggesstions they would be greatly appreciated. > Sincerely, > Kayleigh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson lilrichie411 at gmail.com "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." --Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. From jbahm at pcdesk.net Wed Sep 30 03:13:22 2009 From: jbahm at pcdesk.net (Joseph C. Lininger) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 21:13:22 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Unit Circle In-Reply-To: <666093.26776.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <666093.26776.qm@web52001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AC2CCD2.5090904@pcdesk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Well, I'm not sure exactly what you're needing. If you are asking for a little bit of information on the unit circle, I've provided it below. I've also given a basic suggestion for tactile things you can do to help you visualize it if you need that. The unit circle is a circle with a radius of 1 unit centered at the origin (0,0) in the Cartesian coordinate system. . The term unit is general, and depends on what units you're working with. Also, if you're working in a different coordinate system, such as polar, the definition changes slightly. Of course, polar coordinates are just circular coordinates, so once you grasp the concept of a unit circle you won't have any trouble with those. Anyway, I'm getting off track here. If (x,y) is a point on the unit circle in the first quadrant in the Cartesian coordinate system, then x and y are the lengths of the legs of a right triangle with hypotenuse 1. This means the Pythagorean Theorem holds. That is: x ^ 2 + y ^ 2 = 1 The values for x and y can vary, but the hypotenuse will always be one if the point is on the unit circle. Points on the unit circle can be found in the other quadrants as well by taking negative x and/or y values. That's the overview. If you remember that, then the work you do in precalculous will be a lot easier. As for tactile representations, you can draw one using a protractor as has already been suggested. If you don't have one, you could draw an approximation of a unit circle, enough to allow you to visualize it anyway, using basic graphing techniques. To do this, what I suggest is that you simply solve the Pythagorean Theorem for interesting values of x and y. The ones you'll want to solve for include: y = 1 y = -1 x = 1 x = -1 Also solve for some values between these. For example, solve for x = .5 and y = .5, as well as their negative equivalents. You can do this with any degree of precision you want. Be very careful you keep the positive values and negative values straight! It may seem silly to mention that at this stage, but trust me it's a simple mistake to make when you start squaring and adding repeatedly and some of the numbers are negative. If you lose a sign, you'll start getting results like -1 = 1. LOL Once you've got all the points you want, plot these points on a piece of braille graph paper. Then draw a circle (using glue, string, a magic marker, or something like that) that passes smoothly through all of these points. If you do it right, you'll end up with a circle centered at the origin which crosses the x axis at points (1,0) and (-1,0), and which crosses the y axis at (0,1) and (0,-1). If you need further assistance, don't hesitate to ask. Unit circles are actually pretty interesting in mathematics, although they probably don't seem like it while you're first learning about them. I didn't think so when I took precalculous, anyway. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, Kayleigh Joiner wrote: > Hello listers, > This is Kayleigh from Texas. I am currently taking pre-calculus and we have started covering the unit circle. I am not aware of anything that is available for the blind concerning this topic. If anyone has any suggesstions they would be greatly appreciated. > Sincerely, > Kayleigh > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jbahm%40pcdesk.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKwszSAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq6NEH/i4FbdWzaDqpfns8fYqg/FkA nz6y+cVJY1uD3X6ksolDu/N7XQAb7jXxbxINUIaavZeWH20cETTGkZJJve/Er+GV JR/izM4HkO2dSywDhYw0lTUBxdRlXvgxa35oHbMVQtcBqPZt1f0PtPlH+/0hFe4e n+YV8bQE7icuw5fXEeGfI0M6sDX50HklRHZZeqNt2lESCCneT30hnNdGazOhJmMV Uv6bFQwvqO8OAaC6JICIU7rdLm/fJVVYNiH+EjW5bnXzrGfnbmPZkYEUZ12ITR76 ZU+QAnY3UH7uY3J+W8JlCLB55epxs3z3PCXojdPZHh7TfHrgfvFxUXDiLhpsMVI= =JPSn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 22:40:49 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:40:49 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <409c235c0909301540r4538adf5r256b7883e0e208a5@mail.gmail.com> Dear Nabs membership We would like to thank everybody who could attend the membership discussion regarding elections. We greatly value your participation and enthusiasm; for without it, we would not have an organized student division. As Chairs of the membership committee, we would like to initiate a topic discussion series including topics that would most interest you, that we discuss via conference call. Below we have listed five topics that may or may not peek your interest. If these topics sound good,we’ll look further into making them happen. If they don’t Jump off of the page and grab you, and you might have suggestions for topics that might be of particular interest to blind students, please let us know, and we’ll do our best to make it happen. The nabs membership committee is excited and looks forward to getting the opportunity to work with all of you, and wants this exciting series of thought-provoking and interactive discussions to be built by and for you all as students. Also, if you may have interest, we plan on having guest speakers to facilitate the discussions. Thank you in advance for your constructive feed back and thoughtful suggestions; as our goal is to Find a way to get the membership communicating on subjects that we would all like to learn and discuss more about. One final thing; if you would like to assist in recruiting guest speakers for the conference call series, or if you would like to help out with the membership committee please feel free to contact either Janice or myself, Thanks. Contact info: Janice Jeang- Janice.jeang at gmail.com Darian Smith- dsmithnfb at gmail.com Suggested topics External outreach/relations: Service learning. How can your local division/chapter get involved in the community? What are the Benefits of getting involved? Why ought we get involved (Social responsibility, Perception-changing?) What is Service learning? Students in Sports; how the individual student can get involved in sports and recreational activities. What kinds of sports can blind people get involved with? How can I get involved? Why is involvement in sports important for an individual (blind or not)? Dating and relationships Fashion (what’s cool to wear on a date) Proper conduct and helpful hints (how to conduct one’s self/techniques one can use at clubs, restaurants and theaters) Career; I can really do that?! What kinds of unique jobs do blind people hold? How did they get there? How did they show that they could be successful in their job? Blind Parenting? >From Hospital to home; how did they do it? (How does one perceive the blind parent in the hospital?) How does one insure their child is safe, happy, and healthy? (Alternative techniques for feeding, changing, monitoring your child… and more!) How does one navigate general public perception of the blind parent? From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed Sep 30 22:51:31 2009 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 15:51:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] From the nabs Membership Committee Message-ID: <409c235c0909301551y6a29bbe3ta3f50704af02e5b9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Nabs membership  We would like to thank everybody who could attend the membership discussion regarding elections.   We greatly value your participation and enthusiasm; for without it, we  would not  have an organized student division.  As  Chairs of the membership committee, we would  like  to initiate a topic discussion series including topics that would most interest you, that we  discuss via conference call.  Below we have listed five topics that  may or may not peek your interest.  If these topics sound good,we’ll look further into making them happen.   If they don’t Jump off of the page and grab you, and you might have  suggestions for topics that might be of particular interest to blind students,  please let us know, and we’ll do our best to make it happen. The  nabs membership committee  is excited  and  looks forward to getting the opportunity to work with all of you, and wants this exciting series of thought-provoking and interactive discussions to be built  by and for you all as students. Also, if you may have interest, we plan on having guest  speakers to facilitate the  discussions. Thank you in advance for your constructive feed back and  thoughtful suggestions; as our goal is to Find a way to get the membership communicating on subjects that we would all like to learn and discuss more about.  One final thing; if you would like  to assist in recruiting guest speakers for the conference call series, or   if you would  like to help out  with  the membership committee please feel free to contact either Janice or myself, Thanks.  Contact info:  Janice Jeang- Janice.jeang at gmail.com Darian Smith- dsmithnfb at gmail.com Suggested topics External outreach/relations: Service learning.  How can your local division/chapter get involved in the community?  What are the Benefits of getting involved? Why ought we get involved (Social responsibility, Perception-changing?) What is Service learning? Students in Sports; how the individual student can get involved in sports and recreational activities. What kinds of sports can blind people get involved with? How can I get involved? Why is involvement in sports important for an individual (blind or not)? Dating and relationships Fashion (what’s cool to wear on a date) Proper conduct and helpful hints (how to conduct one’s self/techniques one can use at clubs, restaurants and theaters)  Career; I can really do that?! What kinds of unique jobs do blind people hold? How did they get there? How did they show that they could be successful in their job? Blind Parenting? >From Hospital to home; how did they do it? (How does one perceive the blind parent in the hospital?) How does one insure their child is safe, happy, and healthy? (Alternative techniques for feeding, changing, monitoring your child… and more!) How does one navigate general public perception of the blind parent?