From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 02:56:34 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 21:56:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PRS Transmitters, HELP!!!
In-Reply-To: <11348135.1264908727833.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <11348135.1264908727833.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <e5a820711001311856l7bf1f571y54a25c7fdc6fe4db@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

I did have to use these for my Biology class.
Many may not like my answer, but since they were inaccessible, either
a student sitting near me or the professor herself would help me log
in.
I memorized the four buttons to answer the questions. Since I sit up
front right near the professor, she would sort of look on making sure
my answer was received. Sometimes she would come over and ask me "Did
you want to answer say number 3?" and make sure it was submitted
properly.
She would read me the question or she would either have another
student or her graduate assistant/teaching assistants read it.

I knew these devices were in accessible but at the time I didn't
really know about the NFB and since the teacher didn't seem to have a
problem with accomodating me I never really saw an issue with it.
Now though, I realize these are definitely inaccessible.
I would do what has been suggested. Try writing a letter to Disability
services, if that doesn't work try showing how they are inaccessible
to both your professor and the DSS office, if that doesn't work go up
the chain...to the dean of the professors department...to maybe the
DSSes boss...like the head of Social Justice...if all this doesn't
work than I would definitely file a complaint.

Hope that helps.
Kerri

On 1/30/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Jamie,
>
> Hope has some good advice.  Keep fighting; demonstrate the inaccessibility
> of the device.
> You might have to drop the class since you cannot take the quizzes and
> you'll get a bad grade.  But either way keep at it.  If the DSs doesn't get
> it and offer a solution, go up the chain of command.  Write a letter to the
> head of that department.  Also go to the Dean of the school your professor
> teaches in and bring this to their attention.  The professor should
> accomodate you.  Finally file a complaint if nothing is resolved in the
> university.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>Sent: Jan 29, 2010 10:18 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PRS Transmitters, HELP!!!
>>
>>Honestly, I'd continue fighting the issue. I've never used a prs devices;
>>however, perhaps you need to demonstrate the inaccessibility of the
>> devices.
>>That way they see your issues  first hand.
>>HTH
>>Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 4:44 PM
>>Subject: [nabs-l] PRS Transmitters, HELP!!!
>>
>>
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> I'm a student at Florida State University. One of my professors this
>>> semester is employing the use of PRS (personal response
>>> something-or-other)
>>> transmitters for answering pop-quiz questions in class. These are little
>>> handheld devices that students use to electronically and instantly submit
>>> their answer to the professor in class. They're handy little devices, and
>>>
>>> I
>>> think it's great that technology is being brought into the classrooms in
>>> college, but it is my understanding that they are inaccessible. You need
>>> to
>>> be able to see the screen to log in and use them, even if you managed to
>>> memorize what every single button is for, and as a blind student, I can't
>>>
>>> do
>>> that.
>>>
>>> I've had professors use these in the past, and every time, an alternative
>>> was offered to me since the professor understood that the device was
>>> inaccessible. I would usually either approach my professor and simply
>>> tell
>>> him my answer and he'd write it down, or I would type it and e-mail it to
>>> him (the latter only when there was internet in the classroom or lecture
>>> hall). This time, however, my professor does not want to cooperate. He
>>> insists that I find a way to use the PRS transmitter, and when I
>>> contacted
>>> my university's Disability Resource Center, they told me I should be able
>>>
>>> to
>>> do it as well, but I can't figure out what they expect me to do. I don't
>>> think it's right or fair for me to rely on another student to log me in
>>> and
>>> select answers for me.
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone else has had to use PRS transmitters in their
>>> classes, and if so, how did you do it?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help, and please write back soon. I've already missed
>>> pop-quizzes, so this is becoming a pressing matter.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Jamie
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Feb  1 16:11:49 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:11:49 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Let Freedom Ring: Braille Letters to President Barack
 Obama is now available
Message-ID: <auto-000137440468@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear Federationists:

In the fall of 2009, the National Federation of 
the Blind put out a call for Americans to write 
letters to President Barack Obama expressing the 
role that being able to read and write Braille 
plays in their lives.  The NFB was flooded with 
responses from a large variety of blind and 
sighted people­from school children to working 
professionals to retired senior citizens.  While 
there are great variances in the people who 
responded, one factor was the same: that Braille 
plays a vital role in their lives and is an 
important, and indeed necessary, tool for the blind.

We have compiled one hundred of these letters 
into a book intended to be presented to President 
Barack Obama.  This morning, February 1, 2010, 
Secretary of Education Arne Duncan received the 
publication on behalf of the President at a 
ceremony at the United States Department of Education.

During the event, Secretary Duncan, other 
dignitaries from the Department of Education, and 
leaders of the NFB heard from various speakers, 
including Marc Maurer, President of the National 
Federation of the Blind, two school children, and 
a parent of a blind child.  Fredric K. Schroeder, 
First Vice President of the NFB, presented the 
book and asked the Secretary to support the NFB’s 
goal of doubling the number of school-age 
children reading Braille. Secretary Duncan left 
the event with the knowledge that Braille is 
vital to the independence of the blind.  And he 
left armed with the book that will give President Obama this knowledge as well.

Let Freedom Ring: Braille Letters to President 
Barack Obama is now available for you to read on 
our Web site at 
<file:///http://is.gd/7jiz3>http<file:///http://is.gd/7jiz3>://is.gd/7jiz3.

This event and the release of this book is a 
great way to begin our 2010 Washington Seminar!

Let Federationism Ring!


Mark A. Riccobono
Executive Director, Jernigan Institute
National Federation of the Blind
<file:///mailto:mriccobono at nfb.org>mriccobono at nfb.org




From daisydacia at centurytel.net  Mon Feb  1 17:10:26 2010
From: daisydacia at centurytel.net (daisydacia at centurytel.net)
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:10:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved in the
	NFB
Message-ID: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>

Hi everyone,
Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young people and also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be helpful.  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end of this week, please. 

thank you in advance. 

Dacia Luck



From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 19:23:31 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:23:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved in
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>
References: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002011123o3e5cc6aahe8b73c8026e8ed1f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
making blindness a nuisence with proper training.

Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
National Center?
What about the Jernigan Institute?
They may have some good suggestions.

As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get involved
in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't like
them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the NFB
seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
still in high school.
I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
was fascinated and immediately was hooked.

I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep youth
interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB has
to offer for students under 18.
I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
Jernigan Institute.

Kerri

On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers
> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young people and
> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be helpful.
>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a
> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end of
> this week, please.
>
> thank you in advance.
>
> Dacia Luck
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 21:55:53 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 13:55:53 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved in
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <e5a820711002011123o3e5cc6aahe8b73c8026e8ed1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>
	<e5a820711002011123o3e5cc6aahe8b73c8026e8ed1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002011355hc99d0a9na90c3fc591a58aed@mail.gmail.com>

Karri and Dacia,

  The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
(ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
the point)
 Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
also a good  aveanue.
  I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
focus groups.
 Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
 your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
might bring some students too?
  Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
very much say "Do it!" :)
 my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
  Best,
 Darian Smith
 Board member  /membership co-chair
 National association of blind students


On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>
> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
> National Center?
> What about the Jernigan Institute?
> They may have some good suggestions.
>
> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get involved
> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't like
> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the NFB
> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
> still in high school.
> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>
> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep youth
> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB has
> to offer for students under 18.
> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
> Jernigan Institute.
>
> Kerri
>
> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers
>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young people
>> and
>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>> helpful.
>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a
>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end of
>> this week, please.
>>
>> thank you in advance.
>>
>> Dacia Luck
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 07:53:11 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:53:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved in
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <409c235c1002011355hc99d0a9na90c3fc591a58aed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>
	<e5a820711002011123o3e5cc6aahe8b73c8026e8ed1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<409c235c1002011355hc99d0a9na90c3fc591a58aed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002012353r2002c391qaa618629ebf88030@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Darian:

Those are some good ideas.

I am hoping to go to convention this year.

I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
members and no officers or anything like that.
So, we are sort of getting one...

I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
participate lol.

Kerri

On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Karri and Dacia,
>
>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
> the point)
>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
> also a good  aveanue.
>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
> focus groups.
>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
> might bring some students too?
>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
> very much say "Do it!" :)
>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>   Best,
>  Darian Smith
>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>  National association of blind students
>
>
> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi:
>>
>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>>
>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>> National Center?
>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>> They may have some good suggestions.
>>
>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get involved
>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't like
>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the NFB
>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>> still in high school.
>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>>
>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep youth
>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB has
>> to offer for students under 18.
>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>> Jernigan Institute.
>>
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers
>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young people
>>> and
>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>> helpful.
>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a
>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end of
>>> this week, please.
>>>
>>> thank you in advance.
>>>
>>> Dacia Luck
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 10:15:19 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 02:15:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved in
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <e5a820711002012353r2002c391qaa618629ebf88030@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>
	<e5a820711002011123o3e5cc6aahe8b73c8026e8ed1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<409c235c1002011355hc99d0a9na90c3fc591a58aed@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5a820711002012353r2002c391qaa618629ebf88030@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002020215p6a6cbc9doe1f4f42ec5ab75e0@mail.gmail.com>

Kerri,
  I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
a good time for sure!
  If you have three people who are interested in getting something
started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
 We'll be  sending out the
 info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
chat.
 Best,
 Darian



On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Darian:
>
> Those are some good ideas.
>
> I am hoping to go to convention this year.
>
> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
> members and no officers or anything like that.
> So, we are sort of getting one...
>
> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
> participate lol.
>
> Kerri
>
> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Karri and Dacia,
>>
>>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>> the point)
>>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>> also a good  aveanue.
>>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>> focus groups.
>>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>> might bring some students too?
>>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>   Best,
>>  Darian Smith
>>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>>  National association of blind students
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>>>
>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>> National Center?
>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>> They may have some good suggestions.
>>>
>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get involved
>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't like
>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the NFB
>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>> still in high school.
>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>>>
>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep youth
>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB has
>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>> Jernigan Institute.
>>>
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers
>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young people
>>>> and
>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>> helpful.
>>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a
>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end
>>>> of
>>>> this week, please.
>>>>
>>>> thank you in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Dacia Luck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 14:04:10 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 06:04:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved in
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <409c235c1002020215p6a6cbc9doe1f4f42ec5ab75e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100201121026.iihflfhb008400gs@webmail2.centurytel.net>
	<e5a820711002011123o3e5cc6aahe8b73c8026e8ed1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<409c235c1002011355hc99d0a9na90c3fc591a58aed@mail.gmail.com>
	<e5a820711002012353r2002c391qaa618629ebf88030@mail.gmail.com>
	<409c235c1002020215p6a6cbc9doe1f4f42ec5ab75e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002020604h1d18687csf0af2bdfd8801dfc@mail.gmail.com>

Listers,
 Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
 another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
believe your advisor is karen Andersen
 Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
resources in addition to being just great people!
 Now I'll shut up lol.
  have a great day   all,
  Darian

On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Kerri,
>   I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
> a good time for sure!
>   If you have three people who are interested in getting something
> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>  We'll be  sending out the
>  info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
> chat.
>  Best,
>  Darian
>
>
>
> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Darian:
>>
>> Those are some good ideas.
>>
>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.
>>
>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>> So, we are sort of getting one...
>>
>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>> participate lol.
>>
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Karri and Dacia,
>>>
>>>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>>> the point)
>>>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>>> focus groups.
>>>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>>> might bring some students too?
>>>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>   Best,
>>>  Darian Smith
>>>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>  National association of blind students
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi:
>>>>
>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>> National Center?
>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>> They may have some good suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get involved
>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't like
>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the NFB
>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>>> still in high school.
>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>>>>
>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep youth
>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB has
>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>>> Jernigan Institute.
>>>>
>>>> Kerri
>>>>
>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers
>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>> people
>>>>> and
>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a
>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end
>>>>> of
>>>>> this week, please.
>>>>>
>>>>> thank you in advance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dacia Luck
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 14:08:13 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 06:08:13 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbc-info] Support GDB Training Staff
In-Reply-To: <DE33046582DF324092F2A982824D6B0307B95AC2@mse15be2.mse15.exchange.ms>
References: <DE33046582DF324092F2A982824D6B0307B95AC2@mse15be2.mse15.exchange.ms>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002020608k5ba74e9ahac4f066ac819fbf@mail.gmail.com>

This  may or may not speak to you, but it did to me and I wanted to
pass it along.  Please share with anyone; dog guide handler or not.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonathan Lyens <jonathan at lyens.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 00:50:10 -0500
Subject: [Nfbc-info] Support GDB Training Staff
To: nfbc-info at nfbnet.org

You'd be hard pressed to find a group of people more dedicated and
passionate about their work than the training staff at Guide Dogs for
the Blind. Together with the canine welfare technicians, resident
attendants, training class specialist, and other members of the training
department, the instructors work tirelessly to build the guide dog
partnerships that have touched so many of us, in ways we could never
have imagined.

But they can't do it alone; they need partnerships of their own. That's
why a majority of instructors and other training department staff have
joined together to partner with a labor union - OPEIU Local 29.



Organizing into a union will help instructors secure fair and safe
working conditions, freeing these dedicated people up to focus their
energies on what they do best - training guides and working with
clients.

Unfortunately, the leadership of Guide Dogs for the Blind is strongly
resisting efforts of instructors to organize into a union. That's where
you come in. If you support the instructors and training staff and their
efforts to win safe, fair working conditions, please call or email Nancy
Gardner, President and CEO of Guide Dogs for the Blind at
1-800-295-4050, or ngardner at guidedogs.com.

If you have further questions about the union, please don't hesitate to
contact me off-list for more information. Thank you for your support!

All the best-



Jonathan Lyens

Email: jonathan at lyens.com



_______________________________________________
Nfbc-info mailing list
Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Nfbc-info:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From corbbo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 14:16:34 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:16:34 -0000
Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fwd=3A_Oratio_for_BlackBerry_=AE_is_now__?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?available?=
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1772982256.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>


From: "HumanWare" <<mailto:marcom at humanware.com>marcom at humanware.com>
Date: February 1, 2010 11:56:55 AM EST
To: "Corbb O'Connor" <<mailto:corbbo at gmail.com>corbbo at gmail.com>
Subject: Oratio for BlackBerry ® is now available
Reply-To: <mailto:marcom at humanware.com>marcom at humanware.com



<http://hcamarketing.cmail1.com/t/y/l/olkkhd/ulkiiluyi/r>
HumanWare logo. The power is in your hands





Oratio for BlackBerry® is now available

Longueuil, QC, Canada and Barcelona, Spain, 
February 1st, 2010 – HumanWare and Code Factory 
are pleased to announce that Oratio for 
BlackBerry(R) smartphones is now available for 
purchase. Formally known as Orator for BlackBerry 
smartphones, Oratio is the first screen reader 
software solution that enables visually impaired 
users to access and operate BlackBerry 
smartphones using state of the art Text-To-Speech 
technology to convert the visual information 
displayed on the BlackBerry smartphone screen 
into a intuitive speech output. This enables its 
users to use BlackBerry smartphones to increase 
their independence and productivity in today's competitive world.
image of a BlackBerry® with Orator software.

Orator user


The name was changed from Orator to Oratio to 
avoid any confusion with an existing product 
called Orator being manufactured by a 
telecommunications company in the USA. "Although 
we got accustomed to the name Orator for 
BlackBerry in the last few months, Oratio is less 
generic and provides a more personalized name and 
sound for the product" says Michel Pepin, Product Manager at HumanWare.


Availability:

Oratio will first be released in North America in 
English, supporting the BlackBerry Curve 8520 
smartphone from AT&T, available through online 
purchasing from 
<http://hcamarketing.cmail1.com/t/y/l/olkkhd/ulkiiluyi/y>www.oratio4bb.com 
for $449 US for a single license. Support for 
additional BlackBerry smartphone models and 
languages will be available in subsequent versions of Oratio.

Oratio is the product of the joint collaborative 
efforts between HumanWare, Code Factory, the 
leading provider of screen reader technology and 
maker of Mobile Speak, and Research In Motion 
(RIM), the maker of the award winning portfolio 
of BlackBerry products and solutions. Oratio 
users will experience more freedom and 
independence in their activities with the ability 
to stay connected anytime, anywhere. Users will 
also experience greater flexibility to manage 
their day-to-day activities in ways that are most 
convenient for them, increase their productivity 
and achieve more by quickly and efficiently accessing information they need.

Oratio also provides employers with an 
accommodation solution for blind and visually 
impaired employees that leverages an 
organization's existing investment in BlackBerry 
infrastructure and technologies.

Feature rich, through its easy to use menu and 
efficient shortcut keys, Oratio will provide users with:
    * Intuitive and familiar audio user interface.
    * Easy-to-use customization options for frequently used settings.
    * Auto start mode when the device turns on.
    * Different verbosity levels to allow users 
to define the amount of information provided.
    * Keyboard echo settings for text entry.
    * Easy to use command structure.
    * Support for BlackBerry smartphone's core applications.

BlackBerry smartphones offer multiple 
applications essential in a business environment. 
Oratio was designed to support the core 
application found on the BlackBerry smatrtphones 
allowing visually impaired users to:
    * Manage instant messaging, emails, SMS and MMS.
    * Make and receive calls with access to caller ID on incoming calls.
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    * Schedule appointments and tasks with alarms and reminders.
    * Access to the phone's settings, ring tones, speed dials and voice tags.

"Oratio is the first screen reader solution for a 
JavaME operating software (O/S). While this first 
release version may not answer each specific 
individual user's needs, HumanWare, with the 
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remain dedicated and committed to the future 
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Oratio users to share their experiences with the 
product. This will provide us with directions on 
how to improve their BlackBerry smartphone 
experience" says Michel Pepin. "Our goal is to 
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by enabling them to access and operate BlackBerry 
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equivalent to solutions offered to sighted BlackBerry users".


About HumanWare

HumanWare 
(<http://hcamarketing.cmail1.com/t/y/l/olkkhd/ulkiiluyi/j>www.humanware.com) 
is the global leader in assistive technologies 
for the print disabled. HumanWare provides 
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HumanWare offers a collection of innovative 
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myReader2, HumanWare's unique "auto-reader". For 
more information about HumanWare, visit 
<http://hcamarketing.cmail1.com/t/y/l/olkkhd/ulkiiluyi/t>www.humanware.com.


About Code Factory

Code Factory is the leading provider of screen 
readers, screen magnifiers, and Braille 
interfaces for the widest range of mainstream 
mobile devices. Our mission is to break down 
barriers to the accessibility of mobile 
technology for the blind and visually impaired. 
Our accessible solutions are used in more than 50 
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blind such as ONCE, and carriers such as AT&T, 
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more about Code Factory, visit 
<http://hcamarketing.cmail1.com/t/y/l/olkkhd/ulkiiluyi/i>http://www.codefactory.es.
©2010 HumanWare. 
<http://hcamarketing.cmail1.com/t/y/u/olkkhd/ulkiiluyi/>Unsubscribe 
from this newsletter.





From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Tue Feb  2 17:32:41 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:32:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involved
	in	the NFB
Message-ID: <20100202173241.4623.18865@web3.serotek.com>

I've had it in mind to comment on what should be said to older members 
regarding the recruitment and retention of newer/younger members. Here 
are my thoughts as someone who is a member of what could be called an 
"older" affiliate with few young people in it.

No matter what happens, no matter what events are held and who they are 
designed to target, the real key to recruiting and retaining new/young 
people is to honor them. What does that mean? To honor someone is to 
listen carefully to them and treat them in a manner that says "We value 
what you have to contribute." Each of us has our own perceptions of 
reality; we intuit meaning out of those perceptions and give them 
varying levels of significance and make decisions based on all those 
things. So often, it's easy to assume that young people are 
automatically inexperienced, unrefined, or simply don't know what 
they're talking about. That's not always true. When we honor people, we 
hear them out completely, inquire of them for further elaboration and 
meaning, and add our own experiences and opinions to the mix to come up 
with something collaborative. In the process, we all learn something: 
young or new members learn how to navigate the new culture they're in, 
and older and more seasoned members learn how to incorporate fresh 
ideas into the existing system. New members know when they are valued 
or not valued. Think about those times in any social situation when you 
get the feeling like you're not welcome. It may have been nothing that 
anyone has done or said directly, but you just know. for that reason, 
it's important to pay attention to not only what's said or done, but 
what's not said or done. And on that note, it's important to ask 
ourselves at all times, "Is this an affiliate or chapter I would want 
to belong to?" If the answer is yes, keep doing what you're doing. If 
the answer is no or even maybe, it's time to re-evaluate and see what 
you come up with. As a final thought in this section, be aware of not 
only how your members treat new people, but how they treat each other. 
New members will evaluate their interest in the group if there is an 
atmosphere of mutual respect and honor toward all members no matter who 
or what they are. If that mutual respect doesn't exist, rest assured 
that you won't see those new members again.

Now what about events? It's not exactly true that all young people want 
big parties with no work involved, but a number of people seem to think 
that we do. I venture to say that a more appropriate way to think of 
things is to say that young people want to be a part of whatever's 
going on. Yes, a little social intermixed with work is important for 
all of us regardless of age or standing in the organization, and the 
affiliate or chapter would do some good to take that into account. If 
young people feel passionate about what they're doing in the 
Federation, they'll show up and provide their energy to it. yes, there 
will be young people who won't, but that's true of all people.

I remember one thing that both Joanne and Dr. shroeder have said in the 
past and that is this: first and foremost, be a friend to new people in 
the Federation. Get to know them. Find out what they're dreams, 
passions, worries, and ideas are. In the process, you'll know what 
kinds of projects they might be interested in and put them to work 
right away. Put young people's energy to good use as soon as its 
available, and there's nothing more exciting to a newly blind person or 
a blind person brought up feeling useless that there is something they 
can do and they're expected to do it.

I hope these comments help. Good luck with your elders at your upcoming 
convention.

Respectfully,
Jedi

Original message:
> Listers,
>  Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
>  another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
> believe your advisor is karen Andersen
>  Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
> any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
> resources in addition to being just great people!
>  Now I'll shut up lol.
>   have a great day   all,
>   Darian

> On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Kerri,
>>   I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
>> a good time for sure!
>>   If you have three people who are interested in getting something
>> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
>> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>>  We'll be  sending out the
>>  info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
>> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
>> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
>> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
>> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
>> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
>> chat.
>>  Best,
>>  Darian



>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Darian:

>>> Those are some good ideas.

>>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.

>>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
>>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>>> So, we are sort of getting one...

>>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
>>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
>>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>>> participate lol.

>>> Kerri

>>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Karri and Dacia,

>>>>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>>>> the point)
>>>>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>>>> focus groups.
>>>>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>>>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>>>> might bring some students too?
>>>>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>>   Best,
>>>>  Darian Smith
>>>>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>>  National association of blind students


>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi:

>>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.

>>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>>> National Center?
>>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>>> They may have some good suggestions.

>>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get involved
>>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't like
>>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the NFB
>>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>>>> still in high school.
>>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.

>>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep youth
>>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB has
>>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>>>> Jernigan Institute.

>>>>> Kerri

>>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an officers
>>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have a
>>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the end
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> this week, please.

>>>>>> thank you in advance.

>>>>>> Dacia Luck


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



>>>> --
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org



> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
> www.TeachBlindStudents.org

> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
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From coastguardgirl at samobile.net  Tue Feb  2 19:12:56 2010
From: coastguardgirl at samobile.net (Davis, Alexandria U.S. CG Aux/CAP 2LT)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:12:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] University Academics
Message-ID: <20100202191256.28667.97843@web1.serotek.com>

Hi there! I am a first year student at American Military University and 
am visually impaired. Could someone tell me how they write papers as a 
blind student? My school is heavily focused on papers, one term paper 
due every eight weeks plus essays for all exams with four long exams 
per class per eight week semester. Is this the same for civilian 
university? How long are your semesters and are papers this heavy? 
Thanks for any tips.

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From lilrichie411 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 22:09:31 2010
From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:09:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l]  [Mn-ABS-l] Jacobus tenBroek
Message-ID: <ca301f5e1002021409v207077ax320027cca9f30c6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I found this video on www.youtube.com about Dr. tenBroek.  Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ni4Il82KU

It's narrated by KEVIN WORLEY.

-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Feb  3 00:22:18 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 16:22:18 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] University Academics
References: <20100202191256.28667.97843@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <BAA0C861130A4B588B1BB95E5BC9FBA9@stanford.edu>

Before answering your questions, may I ask you a few?  What, if any, 
adaptive technology do you have/use?  Do you read/write Braille? Large 
print? If you read/write Braille, is your preference for typing a Braille 
keyboard or a qwerty keyboard?

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Davis, Alexandria U.S. CG Aux/CAP 2LT" <coastguardgirl at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] University Academics


> Hi there! I am a first year student at American Military University and am 
> visually impaired. Could someone tell me how they write papers as a blind 
> student? My school is heavily focused on papers, one term paper due every 
> eight weeks plus essays for all exams with four long exams per class per 
> eight week semester. Is this the same for civilian university? How long 
> are your semesters and are papers this heavy? Thanks for any tips.
>
> -- 
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 04:45:10 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 23:45:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>

Dear list,

I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
with its mainstream counterparts.

At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

Looking forward to your input,

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4829 (20100202) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Wed Feb  3 06:29:08 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:29:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100203062908.27725.93991@web1.serotek.com>

Joe,

You're not the only person taking a look at what some call the 
"blindness tax." Products that cost a lot of money, are geared 
specifically to the blind, and either don't compete equally with 
mainstream products and/or hardly do so have now been dubbed "blind 
ghetto products" simply because they do charge such an outrageous price 
even though they do exactly or nearly exactly what mainstream products do.

One company that's currently looking into these issues is SEROTEK. 
SEROTEK's business model is all about reducing the blindness tax and 
making necessary technology affordable to everyday blind consumers. 
SEROTEK openly supports companies who build products with universal 
design in mind since they would cost the same for a blind person to use 
them as a sighted person. Their products are priced according to what 
blind people can realistically be expected to pay, and SEROTEK supports 
mainstream products that have the duel function of helping the blind 
whether they were designed to or not. Keep your web browser pointed to 
http://www.serotalk.com for podcasts and other media related to both 
A.T. and mainstream technology with similar characteristics that I've 
mentioned here.

One way to put a dent into the pockets of those who would charge a 
blindness tax is not to buy their products or ask the government to buy 
them for us. For example, instead of choosing Jaws for Windows, a 
screen reader built by a company notorious for charging a blindness 
tax, try screen readers such as System Access, NVDA, or VoiceOver with 
the Mac. These readers are either free or low cost and work just as 
well as the conventional readers do for most every consumer. Similarly, 
buying mainstream products such as OmniPage instead of OpenBook is 
another example. Buying from blindness specific companies who make a 
genuine effort to lower their prices such as SEROTEK, TalkNav, and KNFB 
Reading Technologies is another way to make a statement with your wallet.

Just keep talking to people about your ideas. You will find quite a few 
people who support the mainstreaming of blindness technologies 
especially if it means lowering prices while meeting the same standards 
for quality as always. There will be some products whose prices won't 
change unless new materials are sought to make them and/or new methods 
of making them are discovered. One example would be the Braille 
display. In this case, it's worth shelling out the money because 
displays have a variety of uses. In that case, you want companies to 
support the use of displays without the extra hassle of finding unusual 
drivers. HandyTech is one company who supports plug and play drivers. I 
bought a Brailliant, but I'm thinking twice already.

Respectfully,
Jedi
Original message:
> Dear list,

> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
> with its mainstream counterparts.

> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

> Looking forward to your input,

> Joe Orozco

> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado


> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4829 (20100202) __________

> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

> http://www.eset.com



> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
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From jj at bestmidi.com  Wed Feb  3 06:29:15 2010
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 01:29:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: What you can do for Christine Boone and the MCBTC
Message-ID: <970F912C5F984083A048CF33B016A373@jage>


J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com
A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Timothy Paulding 
To: 'Timothy Paulding' ; 'Jacalyn Paulding' 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:42 PM
Subject: What you can do for Christine Boone and the MCBTC 


Hello All,

 

Christine Boone, Director of the Michigan Commission for the Blind Training Center in Kalamazoo, is due to be hastily dismissed from her position as director on Thursday 2/4/2010; that's the day after tomorrow. In her short time as director, Christine Boone has made tremendous positive change to the Michigan Commission for the Blind Training Center. She has encouraged greater independence of center students, introduced new programs and policies, and has sought greater feedback and input from center staff members. She was well on her way to making the center a place where students are empowered through learning confidence and the skills of blindness. 

 

The situation surrounding her dismissal does not add up at all. There are many missing pieces and there appears to be a number of hidden agendas at work. I have posted the related news articles at the bottom of this email

 

I write to you today in hopes that you are in support of Christine Boone and the positive changes she has made at the Michigan Commission for the Blind Training Center. To show that support, I urge you to make a couple quick phone calls. And don't worry, they will really be quick because the people answering these numbers want to get off the phone with you as quick as they can! When you call these offices, you may want to simply state the situation  as you understand it. You may want to include the following points:

 

  a.. Christine Boone, Director of the Michigan Commission for the Blind Training Center is due to be dismissed from her position on Thursday. 
  b.. Mrs. Boone has made a significant impact at the training center and as a concerned citizen of Michigan , you feel it would be a mistake to let her go 
  c.. Encourage the Governor/Director of DELEG to examine both sides of the situation and encourage them to allow Christine's voice to be heard. 
  d.. Christine Boone can be reached on her cell phone at (269) 329-8500 or home at (269) 343-1959. She would welcome a call from the Governor, the Director of DELEG, or any of their staff so that she may discuss her side of the story. 
 

I have pasted below the two numbers to call. One is the governor's office and the other is the main number for the Department of Energy Labor and Economic Growth. If only one or two people call, there is no chance of this making a difference. If everyone calls, there is at least a chance for Christine's side to be heard. Please distribute this email far and wide. We don't have much time so don't think about it, just do it! 

 

Michigan Department of Energy, Labor and Economic Growth

Carolyn sparkie-Heading, Secretary to the Director

(517) 373-1820

 

Office of the Governor 

PHONE: (517) 373-3400
PHONE: (517) 335-7858 - Constituent Services

 

*** RELATED NEWS ARTICLES ***

Story 1

http://www.wwmt.com/articles/blind-1371992-michigan-commission.html

 

Story 2

http://pr-canada.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=162727&Itemid=58

 

Story 3

http://www.wwmt.com/articles/center-1371891-training-blind.html

 

 

_____________________

Timothy J. Paulding

217 Paisley Ct.

Kalamazoo, MI  49006

Ph: 269-598-7696

tjpaulding at gmail.com

 

From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 08:23:27 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 03:23:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <20100203062908.27725.93991@web1.serotek.com>
References: <20100203062908.27725.93991@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002030023t3cf80637n588147822d77cad@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

I think this is finitely an issue and I couldn't agree with you more.

Look at Apple and what they've done with the iphone. They have made a
mainstream product, a product with a touchscreen accessible.
There is no reason why other mainstream companies can not do the same
or a similar thing.

I love what Serotech is doing. All blindness companies should be like
them...there is no reason we should have to pay extra money for access
to something a sighted person gets to have readily available to them
without an extra price what so ever.

Just my opinion.

Kerri

On 2/3/10, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> You're not the only person taking a look at what some call the
> "blindness tax." Products that cost a lot of money, are geared
> specifically to the blind, and either don't compete equally with
> mainstream products and/or hardly do so have now been dubbed "blind
> ghetto products" simply because they do charge such an outrageous price
> even though they do exactly or nearly exactly what mainstream products do.
>
> One company that's currently looking into these issues is SEROTEK.
> SEROTEK's business model is all about reducing the blindness tax and
> making necessary technology affordable to everyday blind consumers.
> SEROTEK openly supports companies who build products with universal
> design in mind since they would cost the same for a blind person to use
> them as a sighted person. Their products are priced according to what
> blind people can realistically be expected to pay, and SEROTEK supports
> mainstream products that have the duel function of helping the blind
> whether they were designed to or not. Keep your web browser pointed to
> http://www.serotalk.com for podcasts and other media related to both
> A.T. and mainstream technology with similar characteristics that I've
> mentioned here.
>
> One way to put a dent into the pockets of those who would charge a
> blindness tax is not to buy their products or ask the government to buy
> them for us. For example, instead of choosing Jaws for Windows, a
> screen reader built by a company notorious for charging a blindness
> tax, try screen readers such as System Access, NVDA, or VoiceOver with
> the Mac. These readers are either free or low cost and work just as
> well as the conventional readers do for most every consumer. Similarly,
> buying mainstream products such as OmniPage instead of OpenBook is
> another example. Buying from blindness specific companies who make a
> genuine effort to lower their prices such as SEROTEK, TalkNav, and KNFB
> Reading Technologies is another way to make a statement with your wallet.
>
> Just keep talking to people about your ideas. You will find quite a few
> people who support the mainstreaming of blindness technologies
> especially if it means lowering prices while meeting the same standards
> for quality as always. There will be some products whose prices won't
> change unless new materials are sought to make them and/or new methods
> of making them are discovered. One example would be the Braille
> display. In this case, it's worth shelling out the money because
> displays have a variety of uses. In that case, you want companies to
> support the use of displays without the extra hassle of finding unusual
> drivers. HandyTech is one company who supports plug and play drivers. I
> bought a Brailliant, but I'm thinking twice already.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
> Original message:
>> Dear list,
>
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>> your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>> settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>> Looking forward to your input,
>
>> Joe Orozco
>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>
> --
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Feb  3 10:44:47 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:44:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: TestPage 1.3 released
Message-ID: <auto-000138041740@mailfront1.g2host.com>


>Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:59:49 -0500 (EST)
>From: Jamal Mazrui <empower at smart.net>
>To: dean at topdotenterprises.com, jeff at jeffbishop.com,
>         editor at blindaccessjournal.com, curtischong at earthlink.net,
>         lpovinelli at aol.com, sweeties2 at verizon.net, pyyhkala at gmail.com,
>         kkellyp at gmail.com, skp1066 at aol.com, mmazrui at aol.com,
>         kforde-mazrui at virginia.edu, jansley2 at gmail.com, gosarah at yahoo.com,
>         john.oliveira at state.ma.us, paltschul at centurytel.net,
>         dbmusic at cybernex.net, don.barrett at ed.gov, rmshah at starpower.net,
>         mark.loeffler at ed.gov, dandrews at visi.com, scott.marshall at fcc.gov,
>         lazzaro at rcn.com, john at jamsite.us, jaws at hartgen.org
>Subject: TestPage 1.3 released
>
>http://EmpowermentZone.com/tpgsetup.exe
>
>This version generates a report in structured text format, including 
>a new section containing the source code of the page tested.  This 
>is useful so that a web developer can easily reference the HTML that 
>was tested, locating the places where issues were raised in other 
>sections of the report.
>
>Below I am pasting the introductory section of the TestPage documentation.
>
>Jamal
>
>TestPage is a command-line utility and dialog interface for doing a 
>simple, automated test of a web page for problems related to 
>accessibility for users with disabilities, or to other aspects of 
>HTML validity according to standards of the World Wide Web 
>Consortium, located at
>http://w3.org
>
>The command-line syntax is
>
>TestPage.exe URLPath FilePath
>
>The first parameter specifies the URL to test and the second 
>parameter specifies the file name of the resulting report.
>
>The TestPage installer, tpgsetup.exe, creates a shortcut for 
>launching an input box that prompts for the URL to test, which is 
>then passed onto the command-line utility.  The default hotkey for 
>invoking the input box is Alt+Control+Shift+T.  This may be changed 
>by modifying properties of the TestPage shortcut on the Windows desktop.
>
>The installer also creates a TestPage program group in the Windows 
>Start Menu, with options for launching the program, unstalling it, 
>browsing generated reports, or reading this documentation.  The 
>default program folder is
>C:\Program Files\TestPage
>
>The TestPage dialog is built with the PowerBASIC compiler from
>http://PowerBASIC.com
>Source code is also provided for VBScript and Visual Baisic .NET 
>versions of the same, simple dialog.
>
>If a URL is passed as a command-line parameter to TestPageGui.exe, 
>then it will be the default value in the input box.  If no parameter 
>is passed and Internet Explorer is open, the URL of its  web page is 
>used as the default value.  The domain name of the URL tested is 
>used for the file name of the report.  It is a structured text file 
>with sections titled web Accessibility Problems, HTML Validity 
>Problems, and Source Code of the Page.  The report is automatically 
>opened with the program associated with .txt files in the Windows 
>registry.  The default is Notepad, which may be changed, e.g., via 
>the Open With command on the context menu of Windows Explorer.
>
>The command-line utility, TestPage.exe, does the main work.  It is 
>built with the Ruby language and several related 
>packages.  Subsequent sections of this documentation provide more 
>detail using excerpts from material on the web.
>
>Please note that this program is only intended as a convenient, 
>mechanized test of web accessibility.  Hopefully, its ease of use 
>will enable more people to do accessibility checks and send them to 
>web developers, as appropriate.  In addition, since TestPage is open 
>source, programmers are encouraged to contribute improvements.  A 
>list of more sophisticated web evaluation tools is available at
>http://www.w3.org/QA/Tools/



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Feb  3 10:52:08 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:52:08 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
Message-ID: <auto-000138041901@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in 
others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't 
afford the technology they need or could use.

However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers, 
and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have 
been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and 
work for a state agency.

It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give 
manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy 
stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can 
negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.

Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more 
then you realize.

Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the 
solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.

David Andrews

At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
>Dear list,
>
>I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>Looking forward to your input,
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Feb  3 10:58:59 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 04:58:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <20100203062908.27725.93991@web1.serotek.com>
References: <20100203062908.27725.93991@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000138042247@mailfront1.g2host.com>

On the face of it what you say is true -- unfortunately, below the 
surface things are more complex.

Yes, Serotek is bringing down prices for individuals -- however, 
possibly at a cost.  I work for a state rehab agency -- we place 
people in competitive employment -- or at least try to (smile.)  The 
technology people are using at work is becoming increasingly 
sophisticated and complex.  We often need the upper end facilities 
for scripting provided by JAWS or Window-Eyes to make a job site 
accessible.  Serotek and NVDA just don't cut it.  They aren't trying 
to, but they also take the easy sales away from JAWS and Window-Eyes, 
leaving them with less of the market, and not providing them with the 
revenue they need to support the more complex applications.

It really is becoming more difficult providing blind people with 
access to entry-level jobs -- we do have a problem here.  And -- as 
much as they help in some areas, System Access and NVDA are also 
hurting us in some ways too.

Dave

At 12:29 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>Joe,
>
>You're not the only person taking a look at what some call the 
>"blindness tax." Products that cost a lot of money, are geared 
>specifically to the blind, and either don't compete equally with 
>mainstream products and/or hardly do so have now been dubbed "blind 
>ghetto products" simply because they do charge such an outrageous 
>price even though they do exactly or nearly exactly what mainstream 
>products do.
>
>One company that's currently looking into these issues is SEROTEK. 
>SEROTEK's business model is all about reducing the blindness tax and 
>making necessary technology affordable to everyday blind consumers. 
>SEROTEK openly supports companies who build products with universal 
>design in mind since they would cost the same for a blind person to 
>use them as a sighted person. Their products are priced according to 
>what blind people can realistically be expected to pay, and SEROTEK 
>supports mainstream products that have the duel function of helping 
>the blind whether they were designed to or not. Keep your web 
>browser pointed to http://www.serotalk.com for podcasts and other 
>media related to both A.T. and mainstream technology with similar 
>characteristics that I've mentioned here.
>
>One way to put a dent into the pockets of those who would charge a 
>blindness tax is not to buy their products or ask the government to 
>buy them for us. For example, instead of choosing Jaws for Windows, 
>a screen reader built by a company notorious for charging a 
>blindness tax, try screen readers such as System Access, NVDA, or 
>VoiceOver with the Mac. These readers are either free or low cost 
>and work just as well as the conventional readers do for most every 
>consumer. Similarly, buying mainstream products such as OmniPage 
>instead of OpenBook is another example. Buying from blindness 
>specific companies who make a genuine effort to lower their prices 
>such as SEROTEK, TalkNav, and KNFB Reading Technologies is another 
>way to make a statement with your wallet.
>
>Just keep talking to people about your ideas. You will find quite a 
>few people who support the mainstreaming of blindness technologies 
>especially if it means lowering prices while meeting the same 
>standards for quality as always. There will be some products whose 
>prices won't change unless new materials are sought to make them 
>and/or new methods of making them are discovered. One example would 
>be the Braille display. In this case, it's worth shelling out the 
>money because displays have a variety of uses. In that case, you 
>want companies to support the use of displays without the extra 
>hassle of finding unusual drivers. HandyTech is one company who 
>supports plug and play drivers. I bought a Brailliant, but I'm 
>thinking twice already.
>
>Respectfully,
>Jedi
>Original message:
>>Dear list,
>
>>I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>>rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>>find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>>for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>>the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>>this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>>If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>>seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>>that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>>with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>>At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>>I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>>Looking forward to your input,
>
>>Joe Orozco
>
>>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>crowd."--Max Lucado



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:45:47 2010
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:45:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
Message-ID: <CA6D46CC187D4078A11927D1DC6C25D4@raniaPC>

I am one of those who depend on the my state rehab to by the labtop jaws and
kerswale for me because I couldn't aford it and still cant should I need to
by something like this on my own.
Rania, 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.';
tabs_students at googlegroups.com; 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Dear list,

I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
with its mainstream counterparts.

At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

Looking forward to your input,

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4829 (20100202) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


_______________________________________________
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2664 - Release Date: 02/02/10
11:35:00



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:52:37 2010
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 07:52:37 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <e5a820711002030023t3cf80637n588147822d77cad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100203062908.27725.93991@web1.serotek.com>
	<e5a820711002030023t3cf80637n588147822d77cad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69CDF64301D4429FB31695ADB83E4F19@raniaPC>

Kerri I would have to agree with you!
I too wish more placesdid what apple has done. Rania, 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kerri Kosten
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:23 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Hi:

I think this is finitely an issue and I couldn't agree with you more.

Look at Apple and what they've done with the iphone. They have made a
mainstream product, a product with a touchscreen accessible.
There is no reason why other mainstream companies can not do the same or a
similar thing.

I love what Serotech is doing. All blindness companies should be like
them...there is no reason we should have to pay extra money for access to
something a sighted person gets to have readily available to them without an
extra price what so ever.

Just my opinion.

Kerri

On 2/3/10, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> You're not the only person taking a look at what some call the 
> "blindness tax." Products that cost a lot of money, are geared 
> specifically to the blind, and either don't compete equally with 
> mainstream products and/or hardly do so have now been dubbed "blind 
> ghetto products" simply because they do charge such an outrageous 
> price even though they do exactly or nearly exactly what mainstream
products do.
>
> One company that's currently looking into these issues is SEROTEK.
> SEROTEK's business model is all about reducing the blindness tax and 
> making necessary technology affordable to everyday blind consumers.
> SEROTEK openly supports companies who build products with universal 
> design in mind since they would cost the same for a blind person to 
> use them as a sighted person. Their products are priced according to 
> what blind people can realistically be expected to pay, and SEROTEK 
> supports mainstream products that have the duel function of helping 
> the blind whether they were designed to or not. Keep your web browser 
> pointed to http://www.serotalk.com for podcasts and other media 
> related to both A.T. and mainstream technology with similar 
> characteristics that I've mentioned here.
>
> One way to put a dent into the pockets of those who would charge a 
> blindness tax is not to buy their products or ask the government to 
> buy them for us. For example, instead of choosing Jaws for Windows, a 
> screen reader built by a company notorious for charging a blindness 
> tax, try screen readers such as System Access, NVDA, or VoiceOver with 
> the Mac. These readers are either free or low cost and work just as 
> well as the conventional readers do for most every consumer. 
> Similarly, buying mainstream products such as OmniPage instead of 
> OpenBook is another example. Buying from blindness specific companies 
> who make a genuine effort to lower their prices such as SEROTEK, 
> TalkNav, and KNFB Reading Technologies is another way to make a statement
with your wallet.
>
> Just keep talking to people about your ideas. You will find quite a 
> few people who support the mainstreaming of blindness technologies 
> especially if it means lowering prices while meeting the same 
> standards for quality as always. There will be some products whose 
> prices won't change unless new materials are sought to make them 
> and/or new methods of making them are discovered. One example would be 
> the Braille display. In this case, it's worth shelling out the money 
> because displays have a variety of uses. In that case, you want 
> companies to support the use of displays without the extra hassle of 
> finding unusual drivers. HandyTech is one company who supports plug 
> and play drivers. I bought a Brailliant, but I'm thinking twice already.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
> Original message:
>> Dear list,
>
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive 
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance 
>> from your rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some 
>> assistance after you find a job, but inevitably there comes a point 
>> when the expense comes directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how 
>> many people have had to settle for outdated technology because they 
>> simply cannot afford it.  But, that's the thing.  I'm only assuming 
>> there are tons of people who cannot afford this technology.  I'd like 
>> to lead a campaign to call public attention to this monopoly, and, 
>> I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you think me crazy.  
>> If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>> software simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from 
>> you.  I understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to 
>> develop.  Yet, it seems more of the price boost is owed to 
>> extravagant government contracts that allow the few players to charge 
>> something like $6,200 for a device that, despite its best 
>> advertisements, does not perform completely on par with its mainstream
counterparts.
>
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>> something I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>> Looking forward to your input,
>
>> Joe Orozco
>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the 
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi
>> %40samobile.net
>
> --
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40g
> mail.com
>

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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11:35:00



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 15:30:35 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:30:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <auto-000138041901@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <482EECF62BA5428D82EF751F24CC57A1@Rufus>

Hi David,

You're an excellent person to answer some of these questions, given your
diverse background.  These are not challenges to your message.  Rather, I'm
trying to get a better sense of the landscape.

1. If you agree there are many people who cannot afford the technology they
need, why is it unfair to criticize developers for maintaining high price
tags for their products?  In your experience, is it completely unfeasible to
ask companies to run a financing program similar to that GW Micro offers for
its Window Eyes product?

2. If the products are expensive to develop, why are consumers not receiving
more for their investment?  This sounds like a contradiction in itself, but
one would suppose that if updates and upgrades take time to release, why
aren't releases aiming to compete with mainstream devices?  8 gigs of memory
is appreciated and a long step from the previous capacity of Braille
notetakers, but one could purchase a netbook with 20 times the capacity at
20 times less than the cost of a Braille notetaker.

To clarify, I am not making government agencies the enemy.  I am holding
developers fully responsible for developing products that will largely be
marketed to government agencies.  In an age where government employees have
better computer systems at home than they do at work, it makes sense that
government agencies are overlooking the fact that the technology they are
dishing out thousands of dollars for is not meeting its full potential.  In
a normal market developers would develop products according to the needs of
the consumers.  Instead, we have a market where consumers can voice their
opinions and hope that their feedback will be filtered through agencies like
the IRS, who are primarily responsible for Freedom Scientific producing
40-cell Braille displays.  Adaptive technology companies make large
announcements about new products, get the customer base in a frenzy and
count on this customer base to pressure agencies into purchasing the
equipment.  There is something wrong with this picture.

I appreciate the work developers have done to keep blind people in the loop.
No one will deny that their products have made careers possible, but I think
there needs to be a real voice from consumers that is heard and responded
to.  The legislation concerning the technology bill of rights is one method,
but here again we are relying on policymakers to act on our behalf.

Given my background in professional fundraising, I would like to convene a
team of people to help me approach companies about setting up a fund to help
professionals obtain the technology they need to make their daily work
possible.  Yet, I do not think this is the first priority.  Such a step
would suggest we are okay with the current price structure and mostly lack
of financing opportunities.

Anyway, it's a rant, but I've already collected a score of personal stories
from people who disagree with your opinion.  Nevertheless, you seem to have
a well-rounded perspective on this issue and hope you can provide further
insight.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:52 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in 
others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't 
afford the technology they need or could use.

However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers, 
and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have 
been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and 
work for a state agency.

It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give 
manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy 
stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can 
negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.

Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more 
then you realize.

Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the 
solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.

David Andrews

At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
>Dear list,
>
>I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>technology.  While you're in college you might receive 
assistance from your
>rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some 
assistance after you
>find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have 
had to settle
>for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  
But, that's
>the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who 
cannot afford
>this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
attention to
>this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether 
or not you
>think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views 
to myself.
>If there is a high number of people unable to tap into 
emerging software
>simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to 
develop.  Yet, it
>seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant 
government contracts
>that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform 
completely on par
>with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet 
it's something
>I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>Looking forward to your input,
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>


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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:02:26 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:02:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: system76
Message-ID: <F8DD073A030040C18C085108C8ECACE2@Rufus>

Subject: [nabs] system76


Hi
 
if any of you do buy a computer from http://system76.com and you want
eloquence you can buy it for $5 or so at www.oralux.org
 
Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com
my blog is at http://jkenn337.klangoblog.net (updated frequently). Tired of
Microsoft Windows and paying thousands for screen-readers? try out NVDA, get
a mac--, nvda--for Windows, or try out and switch to grml, Ubuntu, Vinux, or
knoppix-adriane Linux desktops. Knoppix ubuntu and vinux-cli-max are the
most accessible for beginners. also try vinux-gui and encourage those at
www.cherrypal.com to use windows-xp and nvda knoppix-adriane Vinux-cli-max
or grml so all blind people can have an accessible computer.


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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Wed Feb  3 16:20:08 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:20:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100203162008.27649.44431@web1.serotek.com>

David,

I don't think anyone is turning technology developers and government 
offices into the enemy. But I also think that the problem is well 
noted. One obstacle to employment for some folks might just be the high 
price tag of JFW, particularly if they're not doing something 
particularly technical.

As an aside, I don't know if you've worked with SA much, but it's 
surprisingly flexible in places where JFW isn't. For example, I used to 
go to a gym that mostly used flash content in its member login 
software. The software's used for members to track their workouts and 
initiate the hardware that takes their heartrate and their mechanical 
motion in order to figure out how many calories have been burned. I 
just plugged my SA key into the computer and had access to the whole 
application. This was in 2008, and at the time, JFW would have had a 
hard time reading that application, especially since I would have had 
to install it first. That is, unless I decided to get some scripts for it.

Yes, work and recreation are two different things, but the point I'm 
making is that a lot of folks poopoo SA basically saying that it's 
kinda like the screen reader for the common person, but it can do some 
interesting things.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in
> others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't
> afford the technology they need or could use.

> However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers,
> and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have
> been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and
> work for a state agency.

> It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give
> manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy
> stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can
> negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.

> Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more
> then you realize.

> Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the
> solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.

> David Andrews

> At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
>> Dear list,

>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.

>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

>> Looking forward to your input,

>> Joe Orozco

>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado



> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:41:10 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:41:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <4b69a6c1.1608c00a.2b96.0cb8@mx.google.com>

I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.  
There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for 
things like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's 
ridiculous how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom 
Scientific, for example, overprice their products so that they 
can steal taxpayer money and then market to a tiny group of 
people.  The problem is we need this technology in order to do 
something a sighted person would do such as check e-mail like a 
sighted person would on his or her i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
Beth


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 16:41:12 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:41:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <4b69a6c3.1608c00a.2b96.0cb9@mx.google.com>

I have a friend who uses NVDA, and he loves it.
Beth


From hope.paulos at maine.edu  Wed Feb  3 16:45:37 2010
From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 11:45:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
Message-ID: <647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>

Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've needed 
adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without assistance 
from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school or college 
at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge $150 or more 
for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made 
especially for the blind is ludicrous. Especially when this device may not 
be compatible with mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, 
I'd be more than willing to assist you in any way possible.
Sincerely,
Hope Paulos
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
<nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing 
List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Dear list,
>
> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
> your
> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
> settle
> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
> Looking forward to your input,
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 17:53:06 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:53:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <7417541006DE434687BB0230EB7EA5B5@math.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <B3E2350F0D8647D9819AFD1DCF135094@Rufus>

John,

That's the kind of feedback I'm trying to generate.  I don't know how much
it really costs to develop some of these products and do not want to
leverage criticism if it really costs a lot of money to design these
devices.  Braille, I understand, will require special expertise.  Yet, even
in this case one has to wonder about the cost after the initial release.  Is
it costing a lot because the engineering is complex, or is it costing a lot
because companies are being inefficient about how they are going about their
development?

The parts that make up a notetaker are not altogether unique ones.  Consider
the battery, for example.  We are talking about special products but not
special products with completely unique pieces.

And the Pac Mate?  It's applying an existing  screen reader to an existing
operating platform.  Is the price still justifiable?  You don't even get
built-in wi/fi, but Freedom Scientific thinks itself a hero for dropping the
price by a few hundred dollars and then making up just over half of that by
selling outdated wi/fi and bluetooth cards.

Is it justifiable for people to have to pay $900 for what is basically a
text-based GPS program?  It's not as though Sendero is developing the maps
for this thing!  A sighted person can pay $10 for GPS through their carrier.
It would take them seven and a half years to pay for what a blind person has
to pay in one cough.

I am in favor of blind people making some sacrifice to independently
purchase their own equipment.  Someone earlier made the observation that
sighted people have to pay twice as much for a vehicle.  To me, the two
expenses are irrelevant, because if you want to throw in independent living,
blind people have to set aside a certain percentage for readers, taxis and
public transportation.  There are far fewer people with salaries capable of
absorbing daily living and crucial technology, just as there are far fewer
employers capable of affording some of this crucial technology.  People
should not have to make a choice based on cost alone, and the real
difference to blind people is that for us technology is a necessity to
compete on equal footing.  It is not a luxury as it is for the sighted
public.

I am blessed to be in the position to pay for some of my technology needs.
I am even more appreciative of the companies who have made it their mission
to help blind people get jobs.  Still, I hate to come across e-mails from
people who could really benefit from the new technology but cannot do so
because it is too much beyond their financial means.  I'd like to do
something about it.  I don't want to make developers out to be the bad guys,
but based on the feedback I've been accumulating, there very clearly needs
to be a compromise that benefits consumers as consumers and not consumers as
clients of government agencies who can afford to pay for the totals these
companies put out.  I would like to take the issue to the developers
themselves, but before I do I would like to get a real feel for the people
who disagree and can give valid reasons for why the current price structures
for adaptive technology are reasonable.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado 

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:30 AM
To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag

I've often wondered about the issues you bring up.  About a year ago I 
remember seeing an announcement for a GPS system that was 
supposedly a price 
breakthrough. The price? $850. For just a talking GPS.

So I understand your frustration. But how can you be sure the 
prices for 
adaptive equipment are inflated? I think you have to have more 
than vague 
suspicions before formally making a charge like that. In fact, doing so 
might do more harm than good. People might demand that 
government agencies 
stop buying  adaptive equipment if they suspect that the 
equipment their tax 
dollars are paying for is over priced. Rather than lowering the 
price for 
adaptive equipment, the result might be that government 
agencies just stop 
buying it.

A new Pac Mate with a 40 cell display costs about $5600. That 
seems like an 
incredible amount of money for a product that doesn't even have 
built in 
wireless, right? But if the Pac Mate is so over priced, why 
doesn't one of 
Freedom Scientific's competitors come out with a product that 
blows it out 
of the water for price/performance?

Another data point is the KNFB Reader. The NFB itself came out 
with the KNFB 
Reader. But at a base price of $1600, its not exactly a 
breakthrough product 
in terms of price. I doubt that the NFB is part of a conspiracy to keep 
prices high.

We've been over and over the issue of the cost of the Pac Mate on 
thepacmateger.com email list. And I have come to the conclusion 
that it just 
costs that much. You can put together the hardware for a lot less and 
install a free screen reader. But if you figure in the cost of 
jaws vs nvda 
and the cost of support (and you have to give Freedom 
Scientific credit for 
providing great support), $5600 doesn't seem far out of line.  
Honestly, I 
am no fan of Freedom Scientific. I think their licensing policies are 
draconian and I am fed up with their tendency to sue their competitors. 
But when I really think about it, I have to admit that the Pac 
Mate isn't 
that much over priced.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
<nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet 
NFBCS Mailing 
List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:45 PM
Subject: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag


> Dear list,
>
> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> technology.  While you're in college you might receive 
assistance from 
> your
> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some 
assistance after you
> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
> settle
> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it. 
 But, that's
> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who 
cannot afford
> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
attention to
> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether 
or not you
> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my 
views to myself.
> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into 
emerging software
> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to 
develop.  Yet, it
> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant 
government contracts
> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 
for a device
> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform 
completely on par
> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet 
it's something
> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
> Looking forward to your input,
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nfbcs:
> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jheim%40m
ath.wisc.edu
>
> 


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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Wed Feb  3 20:03:45 2010
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 12:03:45 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
Message-ID: <0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>

This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the members 
of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being able 
to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock. 
It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated new 
devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since this 
equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone who 
works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've 
> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without 
> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school 
> or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge 
> $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or thereabouts for 
> a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. Especially when this 
> device may not be compatible with mainstream software. If you need help 
> with this campaign, I'd be more than willing to assist you in any way 
> possible.
> Sincerely,
> Hope Paulos
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing 
> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
>> your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after 
>> you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>> settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>> that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, 
>> it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>
>> Looking forward to your input,
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature
>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>
>
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From tealbloodworth at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 22:26:27 2010
From: tealbloodworth at gmail.com (Teal Bloodworth)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:26:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
Message-ID: <8D433D2448C84556804EAEB1EC85C97C@teal6e6857f643>

has anyone ever been told that your public agency couldnt assist you with 
the adaptive technology? my first semester in college my labtop with 
windowss XP home crashed. not knowing what to do i went to my school's I T. 
they wer able to wipe out my computer and reboot it. the problem was that 
they put XP professional leaving me less than a week away from finals and a 
version of jaws that was not compadable wih my computer. My public agency 
purchased my new version of jaws but once i get a new computer and if it has 
a different version of windows which it probably will then i have too pay 
for Jaws out of pocket. all because i went to my school campuses I T instead 
of my A t instructor for help.

i will help any way that i can since i have ran into my fair share of A t 
problems.

            -Teal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've 
> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without 
> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school 
> or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge 
> $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or thereabouts for 
> a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. Especially when this 
> device may not be compatible with mainstream software. If you need help 
> with this campaign, I'd be more than willing to assist you in any way 
> possible.
> Sincerely,
> Hope Paulos
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing 
> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
>> your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after 
>> you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>> settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>> that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, 
>> it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>
>> Looking forward to your input,
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature
>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From brileyp at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:28:11 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:28:11 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
Message-ID: <CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com>

It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a dangerous door to expect the government to limit how much things can cost? At the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist as charities, they are businesses just like any other, except for the fact that they are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is horrible that they exploit our need for these products to make a buck? Of course. Isn't that capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any stretch of the imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the argument.

Briley
On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:

> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing to assist you in any way possible.
> Sincerely,
> Hope Paulos
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> 
>> Dear list,
>> 
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>> 
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>> 
>> Looking forward to your input,
>> 
>> Joe Orozco
>> 
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>> 
>> 
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>> 
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> 
>> http://www.eset.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From brileyp at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:37:34 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:37:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
	<0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>
Message-ID: <6849FE5F-8F49-4889-9F12-539898BEF0E1@gmail.com>

Voc Rehab agencies are supposed to provide training for equipment they provide for their clients. The key word in that sentence is "supposed to". The problem isn't always lack of instructors, but a lack of an adequate vendor's system in certain states. Everyone should remember you have the right to sea out an independent technology evaluation if you're not getting the services you need from voc. rehab. Usually, if you show initiative in that area and show you will stick to your guns and know what you need, they'll give. Backing down is never the answer, even though it can be difficult to push the issue with people who are in a position of authority. I know this was a bit off topic, but hope it is helpful.

Briley
On Feb 3, 2010, at 2:03 PM, V Nork wrote:

> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the members of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being able to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock. It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated new devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> 
>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing to assist you in any way possible.
>> Sincerely,
>> Hope Paulos
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>> 
>>> Dear list,
>>> 
>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>> 
>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>> 
>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>> 
>>> Joe Orozco
>>> 
>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>> 
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>> 
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com



From brileyp at gmail.com  Wed Feb  3 23:41:18 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:41:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <B3E2350F0D8647D9819AFD1DCF135094@Rufus>
References: <B3E2350F0D8647D9819AFD1DCF135094@Rufus>
Message-ID: <602C1A09-2BAD-429A-995C-9B4E91CDC25A@gmail.com>

While it is true the technology can be costly to develop, (taking into account paying programers, etc), the price the public is charged can be considered above and beyond. It is true that there are affordable options available like System Access, as well as built in accessibility provided in Apple products, but Freedom Scientific still holds 80 percent of the market share.

Briley
On Feb 3, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Joe Orozco wrote:

> John,
> 
> That's the kind of feedback I'm trying to generate.  I don't know how much
> it really costs to develop some of these products and do not want to
> leverage criticism if it really costs a lot of money to design these
> devices.  Braille, I understand, will require special expertise.  Yet, even
> in this case one has to wonder about the cost after the initial release.  Is
> it costing a lot because the engineering is complex, or is it costing a lot
> because companies are being inefficient about how they are going about their
> development?
> 
> The parts that make up a notetaker are not altogether unique ones.  Consider
> the battery, for example.  We are talking about special products but not
> special products with completely unique pieces.
> 
> And the Pac Mate?  It's applying an existing  screen reader to an existing
> operating platform.  Is the price still justifiable?  You don't even get
> built-in wi/fi, but Freedom Scientific thinks itself a hero for dropping the
> price by a few hundred dollars and then making up just over half of that by
> selling outdated wi/fi and bluetooth cards.
> 
> Is it justifiable for people to have to pay $900 for what is basically a
> text-based GPS program?  It's not as though Sendero is developing the maps
> for this thing!  A sighted person can pay $10 for GPS through their carrier.
> It would take them seven and a half years to pay for what a blind person has
> to pay in one cough.
> 
> I am in favor of blind people making some sacrifice to independently
> purchase their own equipment.  Someone earlier made the observation that
> sighted people have to pay twice as much for a vehicle.  To me, the two
> expenses are irrelevant, because if you want to throw in independent living,
> blind people have to set aside a certain percentage for readers, taxis and
> public transportation.  There are far fewer people with salaries capable of
> absorbing daily living and crucial technology, just as there are far fewer
> employers capable of affording some of this crucial technology.  People
> should not have to make a choice based on cost alone, and the real
> difference to blind people is that for us technology is a necessity to
> compete on equal footing.  It is not a luxury as it is for the sighted
> public.
> 
> I am blessed to be in the position to pay for some of my technology needs.
> I am even more appreciative of the companies who have made it their mission
> to help blind people get jobs.  Still, I hate to come across e-mails from
> people who could really benefit from the new technology but cannot do so
> because it is too much beyond their financial means.  I'd like to do
> something about it.  I don't want to make developers out to be the bad guys,
> but based on the feedback I've been accumulating, there very clearly needs
> to be a compromise that benefits consumers as consumers and not consumers as
> clients of government agencies who can afford to pay for the totals these
> companies put out.  I would like to take the issue to the developers
> themselves, but before I do I would like to get a real feel for the people
> who disagree and can give valid reasons for why the current price structures
> for adaptive technology are reasonable.
> 
> Joe Orozco
> 
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> crowd."--Max Lucado 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 11:30 AM
> To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> I've often wondered about the issues you bring up.  About a year ago I 
> remember seeing an announcement for a GPS system that was 
> supposedly a price 
> breakthrough. The price? $850. For just a talking GPS.
> 
> So I understand your frustration. But how can you be sure the 
> prices for 
> adaptive equipment are inflated? I think you have to have more 
> than vague 
> suspicions before formally making a charge like that. In fact, doing so 
> might do more harm than good. People might demand that 
> government agencies 
> stop buying  adaptive equipment if they suspect that the 
> equipment their tax 
> dollars are paying for is over priced. Rather than lowering the 
> price for 
> adaptive equipment, the result might be that government 
> agencies just stop 
> buying it.
> 
> A new Pac Mate with a 40 cell display costs about $5600. That 
> seems like an 
> incredible amount of money for a product that doesn't even have 
> built in 
> wireless, right? But if the Pac Mate is so over priced, why 
> doesn't one of 
> Freedom Scientific's competitors come out with a product that 
> blows it out 
> of the water for price/performance?
> 
> Another data point is the KNFB Reader. The NFB itself came out 
> with the KNFB 
> Reader. But at a base price of $1600, its not exactly a 
> breakthrough product 
> in terms of price. I doubt that the NFB is part of a conspiracy to keep 
> prices high.
> 
> We've been over and over the issue of the cost of the Pac Mate on 
> thepacmateger.com email list. And I have come to the conclusion 
> that it just 
> costs that much. You can put together the hardware for a lot less and 
> install a free screen reader. But if you figure in the cost of 
> jaws vs nvda 
> and the cost of support (and you have to give Freedom 
> Scientific credit for 
> providing great support), $5600 doesn't seem far out of line.  
> Honestly, I 
> am no fan of Freedom Scientific. I think their licensing policies are 
> draconian and I am fed up with their tendency to sue their competitors. 
> But when I really think about it, I have to admit that the Pac 
> Mate isn't 
> that much over priced.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet 
> NFBCS Mailing 
> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 10:45 PM
> Subject: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> 
>> Dear list,
>> 
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive 
> assistance from 
>> your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some 
> assistance after you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>> settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it. 
> But, that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who 
> cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
> attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether 
> or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my 
> views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into 
> emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to 
> develop.  Yet, it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant 
> government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 
> for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform 
> completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>> 
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet 
> it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>> 
>> Looking forward to your input,
>> 
>> Joe Orozco
>> 
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>> 
>> 
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature
>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>> 
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> 
>> http://www.eset.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbcs mailing list
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nfbcs:
>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jheim%40m
> ath.wisc.edu
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
> info for nfbcs:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jsorozco%
> 40gmail.com
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of 
> virus signature database 4832 (20100203) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.eset.com
> 
> 
> 
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4832 (20100203) __________
> 
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> 
> http://www.eset.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com



From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 00:24:41 2010
From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 16:24:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <670401.53102.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

It all comes down to a supply/demand issue.
There is a great demand from a small minority group (05)% of total U.S population.  If products were marcketed as products to help cross-disabled and the aging, then we would be discussing (20)% of total US population.
Finally, the other issue deals with the cost of production and outsoursing of materials to produce these products.  I am not saying that I agree with either issue; however, the only way to reduce cost is by influincing product developers to incorporate full integration in to mainstremed products without limits by offering partial accessible options.  It comes down to the indirect and direct ignorence of the publics awareness of the blind and spisiffic products and there issues of importence.


--- On Wed, 2/3/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 6:28 PM
> It is a difficult question. While I
> agree that paying so much simply because I happen to be
> blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a dangerous door to
> expect the government to limit how much things can cost? At
> the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't
> exist as charities, they are businesses just like any other,
> except for the fact that they are selling to a small niche
> market. Do I think it is horrible that they exploit our need
> for these products to make a buck? Of course. Isn't that
> capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any stretch of the
> imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on
> this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the
> argument.
> 
> Briley
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
> 
> > Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless
> times that I've needed adaptive technology and haven't been
> able to purchase it without assistance from my vocational
> rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school or college at
> the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge
> $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying
> $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the
> blind is ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be
> compatible with mainstream software. If you need help with
> this campaign, I'd be more than willing to assist you in any
> way possible.
> > Sincerely,
> > Hope Paulos
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of
> Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>;
> <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>;
> "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> > 
> > 
> >> Dear list,
> >> 
> >> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags
> associated with adaptive
> >> technology.  While you're in college you
> might receive assistance from your
> >> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may
> get some assistance after you
> >> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point
> when the expense comes
> >> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how
> many people have had to settle
> >> for outdated technology because they simply cannot
> afford it.  But, that's
> >> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons
> of people who cannot afford
> >> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign
> to call public attention to
> >> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts
> on whether or not you
> >> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong,
> I'll keep my views to myself.
> >> If there is a high number of people unable to tap
> into emerging software
> >> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to
> hear from you.  I
> >> understand the technology itself costs a lot of
> money to develop.  Yet, it
> >> seems more of the price boost is owed to
> extravagant government contracts
> >> that allow the few players to charge something
> like $6,200 for a device
> >> that, despite its best advertisements, does not
> perform completely on par
> >> with its mainstream counterparts.
> >> 
> >> At this time I have only a vague idea for a
> strategy.  Yet it's something
> >> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly
> identified.
> >> 
> >> Looking forward to your input,
> >> 
> >> Joe Orozco
> >> 
> >> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn
> his back on the
> >> crowd."--Max Lucado
> >> 
> >> 
> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus,
> version of virus signature
> >> database 4829 (20100202) __________
> >> 
> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >> 
> >> http://www.eset.com
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your account info for nabs-l:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
> 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for nabs-l:
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> 


      


From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 01:07:24 2010
From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:07:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them
	involvedin	the NFB
References: <20100202173241.4623.18865@web3.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <C174BC2AC52B42D796227B98CE2EAB87@Jessica>

Well well stated JedI!  Right on!!!  common sense isn't so common, and I 
think all too often the opposite of what you just stated occurs much much 
more than people want to admit!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involvedin 
the NFB


> I've had it in mind to comment on what should be said to older members 
> regarding the recruitment and retention of newer/younger members. Here are 
> my thoughts as someone who is a member of what could be called an "older" 
> affiliate with few young people in it.
>
> No matter what happens, no matter what events are held and who they are 
> designed to target, the real key to recruiting and retaining new/young 
> people is to honor them. What does that mean? To honor someone is to 
> listen carefully to them and treat them in a manner that says "We value 
> what you have to contribute." Each of us has our own perceptions of 
> reality; we intuit meaning out of those perceptions and give them varying 
> levels of significance and make decisions based on all those things. So 
> often, it's easy to assume that young people are automatically 
> inexperienced, unrefined, or simply don't know what they're talking about. 
> That's not always true. When we honor people, we hear them out completely, 
> inquire of them for further elaboration and meaning, and add our own 
> experiences and opinions to the mix to come up with something 
> collaborative. In the process, we all learn something: young or new 
> members learn how to navigate the new culture they're in, and older and 
> more seasoned members learn how to incorporate fresh ideas into the 
> existing system. New members know when they are valued or not valued. 
> Think about those times in any social situation when you get the feeling 
> like you're not welcome. It may have been nothing that anyone has done or 
> said directly, but you just know. for that reason, it's important to pay 
> attention to not only what's said or done, but what's not said or done. 
> And on that note, it's important to ask ourselves at all times, "Is this 
> an affiliate or chapter I would want to belong to?" If the answer is yes, 
> keep doing what you're doing. If the answer is no or even maybe, it's time 
> to re-evaluate and see what you come up with. As a final thought in this 
> section, be aware of not only how your members treat new people, but how 
> they treat each other. New members will evaluate their interest in the 
> group if there is an atmosphere of mutual respect and honor toward all 
> members no matter who or what they are. If that mutual respect doesn't 
> exist, rest assured that you won't see those new members again.
>
> Now what about events? It's not exactly true that all young people want 
> big parties with no work involved, but a number of people seem to think 
> that we do. I venture to say that a more appropriate way to think of 
> things is to say that young people want to be a part of whatever's going 
> on. Yes, a little social intermixed with work is important for all of us 
> regardless of age or standing in the organization, and the affiliate or 
> chapter would do some good to take that into account. If young people feel 
> passionate about what they're doing in the Federation, they'll show up and 
> provide their energy to it. yes, there will be young people who won't, but 
> that's true of all people.
>
> I remember one thing that both Joanne and Dr. shroeder have said in the 
> past and that is this: first and foremost, be a friend to new people in 
> the Federation. Get to know them. Find out what they're dreams, passions, 
> worries, and ideas are. In the process, you'll know what kinds of projects 
> they might be interested in and put them to work right away. Put young 
> people's energy to good use as soon as its available, and there's nothing 
> more exciting to a newly blind person or a blind person brought up feeling 
> useless that there is something they can do and they're expected to do it.
>
> I hope these comments help. Good luck with your elders at your upcoming 
> convention.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
> Original message:
>> Listers,
>>  Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
>>  another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
>> believe your advisor is karen Andersen
>>  Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
>> any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
>> resources in addition to being just great people!
>>  Now I'll shut up lol.
>>   have a great day   all,
>>   Darian
>
>> On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Kerri,
>>>   I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
>>> a good time for sure!
>>>   If you have three people who are interested in getting something
>>> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
>>> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>>>  We'll be  sending out the
>>>  info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
>>> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
>>> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
>>> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
>>> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
>>> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
>>> chat.
>>>  Best,
>>>  Darian
>
>
>
>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey Darian:
>
>>>> Those are some good ideas.
>
>>>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.
>
>>>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>>>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
>>>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>>>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>>>> So, we are sort of getting one...
>
>>>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
>>>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
>>>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>>>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>>>> participate lol.
>
>>>> Kerri
>
>>>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Karri and Dacia,
>
>>>>>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>>>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>>>>> the point)
>>>>>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>>>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>>>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>>>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>>>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>>>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>>>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>>>>> focus groups.
>>>>>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>>>>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>>>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>>>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>>>>> might bring some students too?
>>>>>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>>>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>>>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>>>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>>>   Best,
>>>>>  Darian Smith
>>>>>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>>>  National association of blind students
>
>
>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi:
>
>>>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>
>>>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>>>> National Center?
>>>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>>>> They may have some good suggestions.
>
>>>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get 
>>>>>> involved
>>>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't 
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the 
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>>>>> still in high school.
>>>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>
>>>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep 
>>>>>> youth
>>>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB 
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>>>>> Jernigan Institute.
>
>>>>>> Kerri
>
>>>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an 
>>>>>>> officers
>>>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the 
>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> this week, please.
>
>>>>>>> thank you in advance.
>
>>>>>>> Dacia Luck
>
>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
>
>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>
> -- 
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 01:32:22 2010
From: jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com (Jessica Kostiw)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <20100203162008.27649.44431@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <211FC44C3B7C4777AC7E1BAB2FB21193@Jessica>

JedI!  That's amazing what you were able to do at your gym!  I want to look 
into SA!  Sounds great!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> David,
>
> I don't think anyone is turning technology developers and government 
> offices into the enemy. But I also think that the problem is well noted. 
> One obstacle to employment for some folks might just be the high price tag 
> of JFW, particularly if they're not doing something particularly 
> technical.
>
> As an aside, I don't know if you've worked with SA much, but it's 
> surprisingly flexible in places where JFW isn't. For example, I used to go 
> to a gym that mostly used flash content in its member login software. The 
> software's used for members to track their workouts and initiate the 
> hardware that takes their heartrate and their mechanical motion in order 
> to figure out how many calories have been burned. I just plugged my SA key 
> into the computer and had access to the whole application. This was in 
> 2008, and at the time, JFW would have had a hard time reading that 
> application, especially since I would have had to install it first. That 
> is, unless I decided to get some scripts for it.
>
> Yes, work and recreation are two different things, but the point I'm 
> making is that a lot of folks poopoo SA basically saying that it's kinda 
> like the screen reader for the common person, but it can do some 
> interesting things.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
>
> Original message:
>> Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in
>> others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't
>> afford the technology they need or could use.
>
>> However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers,
>> and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have
>> been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and
>> work for a state agency.
>
>> It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give
>> manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy
>> stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can
>> negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.
>
>> Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more
>> then you realize.
>
>> Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the
>> solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.
>
>> David Andrews
>
>> At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
>>> Dear list,
>
>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
>>> your
>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after 
>>> you
>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>>> settle
>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>>> that's
>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention 
>>> to
>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to 
>>> myself.
>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, 
>>> it
>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government 
>>> contracts
>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on 
>>> par
>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>>> something
>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>>> Looking forward to your input,
>
>>> Joe Orozco
>
>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>
> -- 
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
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From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 02:22:59 2010
From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:22:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
	<0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>
Message-ID: <0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc>

I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue, 
however I do have a position.

I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few 
individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are 
reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple to 
understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text 
translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays. 
However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would 
cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact. 
That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High school 
and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have the 
funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the 
funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would 
receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at 
least on one level.

Aziza
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the members 
> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being able 
> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock. 
> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated new 
> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since 
> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone 
> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've 
>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without 
>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high 
>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can 
>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or 
>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. 
>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream 
>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing 
>> to assist you in any way possible.
>> Sincerely,
>> Hope Paulos
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing 
>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
>>> your
>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after 
>>> you
>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>>> settle
>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>>> that's
>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention 
>>> to
>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to 
>>> myself.
>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, 
>>> it
>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government 
>>> contracts
>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on 
>>> par
>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>
>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>>> something
>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>
>>> Joe Orozco
>>>
>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>>> signature
>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com 



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:07:28 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:07:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
	<0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>
	<0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>

I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
us.
Beth

On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
> however I do have a position.
>
> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple to
> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High school
> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have the
> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
> least on one level.
>
> Aziza
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the members
>>
>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being able
>>
>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated new
>>
>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>
>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can
>>>
>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Hope Paulos
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>> your
>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>> you
>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>> settle
>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>> that's
>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>> to
>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>> myself.
>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>>>> it
>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>> contracts
>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>> par
>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>
>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>> something
>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>
>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>
>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>


From kramc11 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:15:46 2010
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:15:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
	<CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59705CC41EF0419895CA034C8CCB033C@SonyPC>

If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software comparable to 
JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a donation 
of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This would solve 
the problem without having to rely on government.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply 
> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a dangerous 
> door to expect the government to limit how much things can cost? At the 
> end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist as charities, 
> they are businesses just like any other, except for the fact that they are 
> selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is horrible that they 
> exploit our need for these products to make a buck? Of course. Isn't that 
> capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any stretch of the imagination, 
> and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on this subject. But I thought 
> I'd raise this aspect of the argument.
>
> Briley
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>
>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've 
>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without 
>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high 
>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can 
>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or 
>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. 
>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream 
>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing 
>> to assist you in any way possible.
>> Sincerely,
>> Hope Paulos
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing 
>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>
>>> Dear list,
>>>
>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
>>> your
>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after 
>>> you
>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>>> settle
>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>>> that's
>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention 
>>> to
>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to 
>>> myself.
>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, 
>>> it
>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government 
>>> contracts
>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on 
>>> par
>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>
>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>>> something
>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>
>>> Joe Orozco
>>>
>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>>> signature
>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com 



From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 03:45:35 2010
From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 19:45:35 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope><CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com>
	<59705CC41EF0419895CA034C8CCB033C@SonyPC>
Message-ID: <E23E9C7E55194F92BC6EBE0D306FE30B@azizapc>

My question, and I hope this makes sense... is:
If these things, like screen reading software, and such is becoming a 
standard necessity for blind people, why hasn't the price gone down? I mean, 
that's normally what happens with technology right? New stuff is really 
expensive, but overtime as it becomes used by a large amount of people the 
price goes down. So, if their is a specific population of people using this 
stuff, why hasn't the price decreased?

Also, does anyone know if the tech manifactures have considred taking a look 
at assistive tech and trying to make built in features on their general 
pieces of technology? Like, a computer with built in screen reader 
capabilitys, but one that actually works well enough so that we don't need 
to go and buy a separate one. If it was standard and included wouldn't it 
cost less?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software comparable 
> to JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a 
> donation of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This 
> would solve the problem without having to rely on government.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply 
>> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a dangerous 
>> door to expect the government to limit how much things can cost? At the 
>> end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist as charities, 
>> they are businesses just like any other, except for the fact that they 
>> are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is horrible that they 
>> exploit our need for these products to make a buck? Of course. Isn't that 
>> capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any stretch of the imagination, 
>> and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on this subject. But I thought 
>> I'd raise this aspect of the argument.
>>
>> Briley
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've 
>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without 
>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high 
>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies 
>>> can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or 
>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. 
>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream 
>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing 
>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Hope Paulos
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing 
>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from 
>>>> your
>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after 
>>>> you
>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>>>> settle
>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>>>> that's
>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot 
>>>> afford
>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention 
>>>> to
>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not 
>>>> you
>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to 
>>>> myself.
>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>>>> software
>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, 
>>>> it
>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government 
>>>> contracts
>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on 
>>>> par
>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>
>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>>>> something
>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>
>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>
>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>>>> signature
>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com 



From freespirit328 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 04:00:33 2010
From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:00:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
	<8D433D2448C84556804EAEB1EC85C97C@teal6e6857f643>
Message-ID: <E10E29AE2B3A4C20B196302939B82C16@Gateway>

Many times.

When I bought this computer almost four years ago, I didn't know that XP 
Media Center edition required a different version of Jaws then XP home. So 
Freedom Scientific sent me JFW for the home edition; I paid $200 for it just 
to find out it wouldn't work on my system. So I called and found out that I 
needed the version for XP Pro, which cost me another $200, and State 
services wouldn't pay a dime. It got me into a lot of trouble, but thank God 
for credit cards!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Browse through the latest AVON brochure online at:
http://shop.avon.com/shop/brochure.aspx

Shop AVON at home or office. Direct  delivery
and a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee.
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From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Thu Feb  4 04:21:48 2010
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:21:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>	<0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>	<0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc>
	<4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002501caa551$93e43120$bbac9360$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>

All the points raised are valid ones, which I agree with on principle, but
we need to look at this from other angles. Yes technology for the blind is
expensive, but that's because it's a niche market, so to speak. The number
of people requiring Braille or text to speech strictly because they cannot
read a screen is small in comparison to the larger populous. Economically
speaking, this means that there is a small demand, so prices must be higher
for technology providers to make profits. They need these profits to
operate, as any business would. So I would wonder if a better pursuit isn't
to pressure mainstream technology providers to make their products more
blind-friendly so that the number of assistive devices we need to purchase
is lessened. Obviously anything to do with Braille would unfortunately have
to remain in a "blind-specific" company, but given that North America has an
aging population it should make sense that technology providers make screens
larger, have better contrasts, and make all menus optionally audible. Apple
is making serious headway in this matter, and I think they are setting a
precedent that all companies should be following in order to remain
competitive. Scanners and OCR technology should in theory be made more
accessible (Adobe is making improvements in this way too) because companies
are now trying to make themselves as paperless as possible. Given that all
scanning and text-to-speech options are covered in the mainstream, more
resources can be allocated to funding more Braille-specific devices such as
embossers and Braille displays.

Now I know that this is not instant, and that often blind-specific products
such as JAWS or Kurzweill are superior to mainstream products but I think
this is changing. Given the popularity the IPad is likely to attract, I am
sure that in a few short years  we will be more likely to access electronic
material and many other benefits as of yet unimagined by the blind
community. I don't mean to perpetually wear rose-coloured glasses because I
know that all is not perfect, but I think this argument needs to be
redirected from sources of funding to developers of products to benefit not
just those with no or little vision but all society.

Thank you for your time.

Sarah Jevnikar

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Beth
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
us.
Beth

On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
> however I do have a position.
>
> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple
to
> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High
school
> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have
the
> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
> least on one level.
>
> Aziza
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the
members
>>
>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being
able
>>
>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated
new
>>
>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>
>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies
can
>>>
>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Hope Paulos
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear list,
>>>>
>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>> your
>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>> you
>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>> settle
>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>> that's
>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
afford
>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>> to
>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
you
>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>> myself.
>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
software
>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>>>> it
>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>> contracts
>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>> par
>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>
>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>> something
>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>
>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>
>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.
edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
et
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40
gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm
ail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
ronto.ca



From brileyp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 04:43:53 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <002501caa551$93e43120$bbac9360$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>	<0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>	<0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc>
	<4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>
	<002501caa551$93e43120$bbac9360$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <D18E2F4A-329B-40FE-BB2B-BADFD56F1225@gmail.com>

Yes... you make the same points I did, though perhaps more concisely.
On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:

> All the points raised are valid ones, which I agree with on principle, but
> we need to look at this from other angles. Yes technology for the blind is
> expensive, but that's because it's a niche market, so to speak. The number
> of people requiring Braille or text to speech strictly because they cannot
> read a screen is small in comparison to the larger populous. Economically
> speaking, this means that there is a small demand, so prices must be higher
> for technology providers to make profits. They need these profits to
> operate, as any business would. So I would wonder if a better pursuit isn't
> to pressure mainstream technology providers to make their products more
> blind-friendly so that the number of assistive devices we need to purchase
> is lessened. Obviously anything to do with Braille would unfortunately have
> to remain in a "blind-specific" company, but given that North America has an
> aging population it should make sense that technology providers make screens
> larger, have better contrasts, and make all menus optionally audible. Apple
> is making serious headway in this matter, and I think they are setting a
> precedent that all companies should be following in order to remain
> competitive. Scanners and OCR technology should in theory be made more
> accessible (Adobe is making improvements in this way too) because companies
> are now trying to make themselves as paperless as possible. Given that all
> scanning and text-to-speech options are covered in the mainstream, more
> resources can be allocated to funding more Braille-specific devices such as
> embossers and Braille displays.
> 
> Now I know that this is not instant, and that often blind-specific products
> such as JAWS or Kurzweill are superior to mainstream products but I think
> this is changing. Given the popularity the IPad is likely to attract, I am
> sure that in a few short years  we will be more likely to access electronic
> material and many other benefits as of yet unimagined by the blind
> community. I don't mean to perpetually wear rose-coloured glasses because I
> know that all is not perfect, but I think this argument needs to be
> redirected from sources of funding to developers of products to benefit not
> just those with no or little vision but all society.
> 
> Thank you for your time.
> 
> Sarah Jevnikar
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Beth
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:07 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
> there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
> bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
> chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
> 92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
> us.
> Beth
> 
> On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>> however I do have a position.
>> 
>> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
>> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple
> to
>> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
>> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
>> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High
> school
>> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have
> the
>> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
>> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
>> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
>> least on one level.
>> 
>> Aziza
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>> 
>>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the
> members
>>> 
>>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being
> able
>>> 
>>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
>>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated
> new
>>> 
>>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
>>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
>>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies
> can
>>>> 
>>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>>> your
>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>>> you
>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>> settle
>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>> that's
>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
> afford
>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>>> to
>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
> you
>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>> myself.
>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
> software
>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>>>>> it
>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>> contracts
>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>>> par
>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>> something
>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>> 
>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>> signature
>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>> 
>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.
> edu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
> et
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40
> gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm
> ail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
> ronto.ca
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com



From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Feb  4 04:49:29 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:49:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100204044929.6048.67797@web3.serotek.com>

What you're talking about already exists to some extent. The 
Accessibility is a Right Foundation (AIR) has a perpetual license of 
System Access which SEROTEK has given them. This version is called 
System access to Go and is provided free by going to 
http://www.satogo.com. The service will give you the option of saving 
your preferences and will create an account for you at SEROTEK in case 
you want to buy any of their products. You can use this free service 
any time you are logged onto the internet. You need only keep a browser 
window open for as long as you need the screen reader. It's a cloud 
application that will not leave anything behind on the host computer 
when you close the browser window. The only thing is that some 
computers are locked to prevent running executables from any other 
source than the computer itself or the server its attached to. In that 
case, you'll have difficulty running SAToGo, anything on a portable USB 
drive whether it's U3 enabled or not, etc.

Speaking of affordable software: I do want to let folks know about some 
options for Windows. We know about NVDA which has recently released a 
new version for free. I don't have the web site off hand, but a general 
internet search for NVDA will bring up the main page with a download 
link for access to both the desktop version and the portable version of 
the software.

Alternatively, SEROTEK has come out with some new options for 
purchasing their software. remember that System access costs $399 to 
buy it outright with a license for two personal computers. For $499, 
you get this license plus a U3 enabled System Access Mobile license 
which allows you access to a computer using a U3 drive. Alternatively, 
you can elect to purchase the software as a service either on a per 
rental basis or on a rent-to-own basis. The per rental service is 
called "Build a bundle," and you can pick and choose from the wide 
range of consumer services and products SEROTEK offers including System 
access, System Access Mobile, The System access Mobile Netork (the web 
portal which includes media content, social networking services, and 
streamlined access to your files and e-mail), the Remote Access feature 
(this allows you access to your computer when you're away from home), 
and the remote training and support feature (great for those who have 
friends using SEROTEK products who either need your help or who can 
help you with technology issues). You can pick and choose from this 
cornacopia of products. alternatively, you can rent to own the products 
(all of them together) for $24.95 a month for four years. afterward, 
the license is yours and you'd then only pay $129 a year if you want 
continued subscriptions to the web portal. If not, you're done paying 
for your screen reader since SMAs no longer exist at SEROTEK. A word 
about netbooks: since they use different processing technology, you'd 
need a special license at $149 unless you're simply using a U3 enabled 
SAM key to use the computer. All of this information is available in 
greater detail at http://www.serotek.com. To address the K-12 issue, 
SEROTEK does have Keys for K-12 which you can learn more about at 
SEROTEK's web site. No, I don't work for them, I'm just a user with 
something to contribute in our discussion regarding low cost technology.

Let me move for a minute to scanning software. Of all the blindness 
scanning software for computers, I've heard great things about EyePal 
and Kurzweil. However, these solutions are still quite expensive. If 
you can't get your hands on them, let me offer you some information 
that can help. Microsoft Office 2007 and above has a tool called 
Microsoft Document Imaging. A web search on this topic should get you 
the necessary info you need to install this add-on to your Office 
suite. Document imaging allows you to scan pages and turn them into 
Tagged Imaging format (tif) files which are then put through OCR 
software that comes along with the imaging product. This is a free 
solution with Office. For the most part, it does a pretty good job but 
isn't as sophistocated as our blindness scanning products are. OmniPage 
from Nuance is another solution with a variety of pricing options 
depending on what you want the software to do. In that case, you'lre 
looking at prices ranging from $135 to $449. Both of these options give 
you highly editable documents that retain their original layout for the 
most part. SEROTEK also offers Document Scan for $159; this product is 
primarily for scanning bills and memos. You can buy a light and 
portable USB scanner from SEROTEK which will work with Document Scan or 
any of the other products I've just mentioned. This scanner will also 
work with your standard blindness products. Remember that these 
products will not do exactly what our blindness products do, but they 
will convert printed text on a page to something electronic we can work 
with. Adobe Acrobat also has a similar feature with the added benefit 
of being able to OCR pdf documents not already processed. Last I 
checked, Acrobat costs $150.

I hope this information is useful to you. There are free and low cost 
options out there. While our blindness products are useful and do 
things these others won't, the fact they exist tells us that our 
blindness products can use mainstream software components that can, if 
utilized, lower the price of the products we use. If you need a 
technological solution that doesn't break your bank in a time when 
you're not elligible for government assistance, give these a think.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software comparable to
> JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a donation
> of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This would solve
> the problem without having to rely on government.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply
>> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a dangerous
>> door to expect the government to limit how much things can cost? At the
>> end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist as charities,
>> they are businesses just like any other, except for the fact that they are
>> selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is horrible that they
>> exploit our need for these products to make a buck? Of course. Isn't that
>> capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any stretch of the imagination,
>> and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on this subject. But I thought
>> I'd raise this aspect of the argument.

>> Briley
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:

>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can
>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Hope Paulos
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>> Dear list,

>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>> your
>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>> you
>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>> settle
>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>> that's
>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>> to
>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>> myself.
>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>>>> it
>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>> contracts
>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>> par
>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.

>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>> something
>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

>>>> Looking forward to your input,

>>>> Joe Orozco

>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado


>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________

>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>>>> http://www.eset.com



>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu


>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:24:52 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 21:24:52 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involvedin
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <C174BC2AC52B42D796227B98CE2EAB87@Jessica>
References: <20100202173241.4623.18865@web3.serotek.com>
	<C174BC2AC52B42D796227B98CE2EAB87@Jessica>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002032124y57f91821wabbfaca57bc649a7@mail.gmail.com>

I think that  there is certainly something to be said for  honoring
the  contributions of each other  as a general idea. People like being
appreciated   and valuedfor who they are.
 That said (and i appreciate Jedi saying it)  wouldn't  the question
of getting  youth involved in our  movement be kind of a tricky thing?
 Would seem as if you would need  to have a supportive leadership
structure on the  state level who will see the need for  the
regeneration  efforts to  insure that our battles are won not just now
but in years to come. Basically, I guess I'm asking-  wouldn't you
need younger students to bring about the need to honor the older
crowd?

 thoughts?
  Darian.

On 2/3/10, Jessica Kostiw <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well well stated JedI!  Right on!!!  common sense isn't so common, and I
> think all too often the opposite of what you just stated occurs much much
> more than people want to admit!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involvedin
> the NFB
>
>
>> I've had it in mind to comment on what should be said to older members
>> regarding the recruitment and retention of newer/younger members. Here are
>>
>> my thoughts as someone who is a member of what could be called an "older"
>> affiliate with few young people in it.
>>
>> No matter what happens, no matter what events are held and who they are
>> designed to target, the real key to recruiting and retaining new/young
>> people is to honor them. What does that mean? To honor someone is to
>> listen carefully to them and treat them in a manner that says "We value
>> what you have to contribute." Each of us has our own perceptions of
>> reality; we intuit meaning out of those perceptions and give them varying
>> levels of significance and make decisions based on all those things. So
>> often, it's easy to assume that young people are automatically
>> inexperienced, unrefined, or simply don't know what they're talking about.
>>
>> That's not always true. When we honor people, we hear them out completely,
>>
>> inquire of them for further elaboration and meaning, and add our own
>> experiences and opinions to the mix to come up with something
>> collaborative. In the process, we all learn something: young or new
>> members learn how to navigate the new culture they're in, and older and
>> more seasoned members learn how to incorporate fresh ideas into the
>> existing system. New members know when they are valued or not valued.
>> Think about those times in any social situation when you get the feeling
>> like you're not welcome. It may have been nothing that anyone has done or
>> said directly, but you just know. for that reason, it's important to pay
>> attention to not only what's said or done, but what's not said or done.
>> And on that note, it's important to ask ourselves at all times, "Is this
>> an affiliate or chapter I would want to belong to?" If the answer is yes,
>> keep doing what you're doing. If the answer is no or even maybe, it's time
>>
>> to re-evaluate and see what you come up with. As a final thought in this
>> section, be aware of not only how your members treat new people, but how
>> they treat each other. New members will evaluate their interest in the
>> group if there is an atmosphere of mutual respect and honor toward all
>> members no matter who or what they are. If that mutual respect doesn't
>> exist, rest assured that you won't see those new members again.
>>
>> Now what about events? It's not exactly true that all young people want
>> big parties with no work involved, but a number of people seem to think
>> that we do. I venture to say that a more appropriate way to think of
>> things is to say that young people want to be a part of whatever's going
>> on. Yes, a little social intermixed with work is important for all of us
>> regardless of age or standing in the organization, and the affiliate or
>> chapter would do some good to take that into account. If young people feel
>>
>> passionate about what they're doing in the Federation, they'll show up and
>>
>> provide their energy to it. yes, there will be young people who won't, but
>>
>> that's true of all people.
>>
>> I remember one thing that both Joanne and Dr. shroeder have said in the
>> past and that is this: first and foremost, be a friend to new people in
>> the Federation. Get to know them. Find out what they're dreams, passions,
>> worries, and ideas are. In the process, you'll know what kinds of projects
>>
>> they might be interested in and put them to work right away. Put young
>> people's energy to good use as soon as its available, and there's nothing
>> more exciting to a newly blind person or a blind person brought up feeling
>>
>> useless that there is something they can do and they're expected to do it.
>>
>> I hope these comments help. Good luck with your elders at your upcoming
>> convention.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>>
>> Original message:
>>> Listers,
>>>  Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
>>>  another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
>>> believe your advisor is karen Andersen
>>>  Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
>>> any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
>>> resources in addition to being just great people!
>>>  Now I'll shut up lol.
>>>   have a great day   all,
>>>   Darian
>>
>>> On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Kerri,
>>>>   I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
>>>> a good time for sure!
>>>>   If you have three people who are interested in getting something
>>>> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
>>>> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>>>>  We'll be  sending out the
>>>>  info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
>>>> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
>>>> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
>>>> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
>>>> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
>>>> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
>>>> chat.
>>>>  Best,
>>>>  Darian
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hey Darian:
>>
>>>>> Those are some good ideas.
>>
>>>>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.
>>
>>>>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>>>>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
>>>>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>>>>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>>>>> So, we are sort of getting one...
>>
>>>>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
>>>>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
>>>>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>>>>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>>>>> participate lol.
>>
>>>>> Kerri
>>
>>>>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Karri and Dacia,
>>
>>>>>>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>>>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>>>>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>>>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>>>>>> the point)
>>>>>>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>>>>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>>>>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>>>>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>>>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>>>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>>>>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>>>>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>>>>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>>>>>> focus groups.
>>>>>>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>>>>>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>>>>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>>>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>>>>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>>>>>> might bring some students too?
>>>>>>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>>>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>>>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>>>>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>>>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>>>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>>>>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>>>>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>>>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>>>>   Best,
>>>>>>  Darian Smith
>>>>>>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>>>>  National association of blind students
>>
>>
>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>
>>>>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>>>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>>
>>>>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>>>>> National Center?
>>>>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>>>>> They may have some good suggestions.
>>
>>>>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get
>>>>>>> involved
>>>>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the
>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>>>>>> still in high school.
>>>>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>>>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>>>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>>
>>>>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep
>>>>>>> youth
>>>>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>>>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>>>>>> Jernigan Institute.
>>
>>>>>>> Kerri
>>
>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an
>>>>>>>> officers
>>>>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the
>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> this week, please.
>>
>>>>>>>> thank you in advance.
>>
>>>>>>>> Dacia Luck
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From brileyp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 05:36:48 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 23:36:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <E23E9C7E55194F92BC6EBE0D306FE30B@azizapc>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope><CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com>
	<59705CC41EF0419895CA034C8CCB033C@SonyPC>
	<E23E9C7E55194F92BC6EBE0D306FE30B@azizapc>
Message-ID: <5C838E30-EC42-4DB4-8AA7-AAA4FAE49E5A@gmail.com>

Apple is really the leader in built in accessibility, and yes, I think that is the only way we're going to see a decrease in what we pay to use technology. If mainstream devices start coming with built in accessibility features, that would be a preferable solution. To answer your question, if a huge company like Freedom Scientific has 80 percent of the market share, and people are paying $800 for their screen reader...why would they lower their price? They may eventually go to a payment plan, but they really have no incentive business wise to do so. Blind people may be pissed at how much things cost...but at the end of the day, the companies still get the money. If we want a change, we'll have to stop using their products. The rub is that they're good products, and probably in many ways more efficient than the cheaper options. 

Just some thoughts,
Briley
On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Aziza wrote:

> My question, and I hope this makes sense... is:
> If these things, like screen reading software, and such is becoming a standard necessity for blind people, why hasn't the price gone down? I mean, that's normally what happens with technology right? New stuff is really expensive, but overtime as it becomes used by a large amount of people the price goes down. So, if their is a specific population of people using this stuff, why hasn't the price decreased?
> 
> Also, does anyone know if the tech manifactures have considred taking a look at assistive tech and trying to make built in features on their general pieces of technology? Like, a computer with built in screen reader capabilitys, but one that actually works well enough so that we don't need to go and buy a separate one. If it was standard and included wouldn't it cost less?
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> 
>> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software comparable to JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a donation of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This would solve the problem without having to rely on government.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>> 
>>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a dangerous door to expect the government to limit how much things can cost? At the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist as charities, they are businesses just like any other, except for the fact that they are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is horrible that they exploit our need for these products to make a buck? Of course. Isn't that capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any stretch of the imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the argument.
>>> 
>>> Briley
>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing to assist you in any way possible.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>> 
>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>> 
>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Feb  4 05:38:41 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:38:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100204053841.9184.47822@web3.serotek.com>

Sarah,

I agree that the blind are a niche market, and I also agree with the 
implementation of Universal design priciples and how they will 
undoubtedly benefit us. I think however, (and one person brought it up 
already) that the niche market of blind people might be paying extra 
for thing that we really ought not to. For example, some of our 
assistive technology products have very mainstream components. Why then 
are we expected to pay more? Why are we expected to pay more for 
products, that while specialized for us, also and often don't meet the 
specifications of mainstream products? aside from the specialized 
platform and the Braille input/output support, the braillenote apex, 
for example,now has stero sound, WiFi capability, more memory, 
replceable batteries, and chater services that mainstream products have 
had for much longer at at better prices. The PACMate is a simolar story.

respectfully,
Jedi
Original message:
> Yes... you make the same points I did, though perhaps more concisely.
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:

>> All the points raised are valid ones, which I agree with on principle, but
>> we need to look at this from other angles. Yes technology for the blind is
>> expensive, but that's because it's a niche market, so to speak. The number
>> of people requiring Braille or text to speech strictly because they cannot
>> read a screen is small in comparison to the larger populous. Economically
>> speaking, this means that there is a small demand, so prices must be higher
>> for technology providers to make profits. They need these profits to
>> operate, as any business would. So I would wonder if a better pursuit isn't
>> to pressure mainstream technology providers to make their products more
>> blind-friendly so that the number of assistive devices we need to purchase
>> is lessened. Obviously anything to do with Braille would unfortunately have
>> to remain in a "blind-specific" company, but given that North America has an
>> aging population it should make sense that technology providers make screens
>> larger, have better contrasts, and make all menus optionally audible. Apple
>> is making serious headway in this matter, and I think they are setting a
>> precedent that all companies should be following in order to remain
>> competitive. Scanners and OCR technology should in theory be made more
>> accessible (Adobe is making improvements in this way too) because companies
>> are now trying to make themselves as paperless as possible. Given that all
>> scanning and text-to-speech options are covered in the mainstream, more
>> resources can be allocated to funding more Braille-specific devices such as
>> embossers and Braille displays.

>> Now I know that this is not instant, and that often blind-specific products
>> such as JAWS or Kurzweill are superior to mainstream products but I think
>> this is changing. Given the popularity the IPad is likely to attract, I am
>> sure that in a few short years  we will be more likely to access electronic
>> material and many other benefits as of yet unimagined by the blind
>> community. I don't mean to perpetually wear rose-coloured glasses because I
>> know that all is not perfect, but I think this argument needs to be
>> redirected from sources of funding to developers of products to benefit not
>> just those with no or little vision but all society.

>> Thank you for your time.

>> Sarah Jevnikar

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Beth
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:07 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

>> I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>> there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>> bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>> chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>> 92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>> us.
>> Beth

>> On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>>> however I do have a position.

>>> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>>> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
>>> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple
>> to
>>> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>>> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>>> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
>>> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
>>> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High
>> school
>>> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have
>> the
>>> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
>>> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
>>> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
>>> least on one level.

>>> Aziza
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the
>> members

>>>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being
>> able

>>>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
>>>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated
>> new

>>>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
>>>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
>>>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies
>> can

>>>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>>> Dear list,

>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>> settle
>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>> afford
>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>> you
>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>> software
>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>>>> par
>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.

>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,

>>>>>> Joe Orozco

>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado


>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>> signature
>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________

>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>>>>>> http://www.eset.com



>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:

>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.
>> edu


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:

>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
>> et


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:

>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40
>> gmail.com



>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:

>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm
>> ail.com


>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>> ronto.ca


>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com


> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

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From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Thu Feb  4 06:04:04 2010
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 00:04:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: DEADLINE EXTENDED: 2009-2010 Fundamental Aeronautics
	Student Competitions
Message-ID: <D5CF59744833486EA8BF40A26A34262C@D3DTZP41>

Hello Lists:

     I thought this might be of interest to any budding engineers.

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss

----- Original Message ----- 
From: NASA Education 
To: Robert Jaquiss 
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 3:53 PM
Subject: DEADLINE EXTENDED: 2009-2010 Fundamental Aeronautics Student Competitions


 

The Fundamental Aeronautics Program has announced its new competitions for the academic year. Students from high school grades through graduate school are invited to research and design an amphibious tiltrotor vehicle with civilian applications. The competition has two divisions: High School and College/University. Teams or individuals may enter either contest, and the program encourages interdisciplinary partnerships. 

 

High school participants must be enrolled in an accredited high school, secondary school or home school. For the high school division, the deadline for final projects has been extended to March 15, 2010. 

 

Undergraduate and graduate participants must be enrolled in an accredited college or university. For the college and university division, the deadline for final papers has been extended to May 10, 2010. 

 

International students may participate, but they are not eligible for certain prizes. 

 

For more information about the contest, visit http://aero.larc.nasa.gov/competitions.htm . Questions about the contest should be directed to Dr. Elizabeth Ward at Elizabeth.B.Ward at nasa.gov . 

 

 



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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Feb  4 06:30:24 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:30:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them
	involvedin	the NFB
Message-ID: <20100204063024.9183.32228@web3.serotek.com>

Darian,

Honor is a two-way street. Sure, it's important to honor elders because 
they hold institutional information vital to the survival of the 
organization. On the other hand, many people don't often think of the 
second part of the honor street which is to honor young people, and not 
just because we have energy. Believe it or not, young people have great 
ideas and, as you pointed out, affiliate leaders (who tend to be older) 
need to support the entrance, growth, and development of those ideas. 
Most of that's done through mentoring, but you'd be surprised how many 
people in the Federation (and in other families and organizations) 
don't know how to mentor effectively. As Joanne once said, good 
mentoring isn't something you're born with. Mentoring skills take... 
well... mentoring. Perhaps it might be useful for our organization to 
do some organizational development where affiliate action spends the 
time to visit each affiliate, check things out, and makes suggestions 
to help the affiliate out on an organizationand interpersonal level 
while offering the needed resources to do it. We can send all kinds of 
people to the National center to get this kind of training, but it's 
hard for one person to implement it in an environment where the 
concepts may be unfamiliar or where people might be unwilling to hear 
them, especially from a younger person.

Respectfully,
Jedi
Original message:
> I think that  there is certainly something to be said for  honoring
> the  contributions of each other  as a general idea. People like being
> appreciated   and valuedfor who they are.
>  That said (and i appreciate Jedi saying it)  wouldn't  the question
> of getting  youth involved in our  movement be kind of a tricky thing?
>  Would seem as if you would need  to have a supportive leadership
> structure on the  state level who will see the need for  the
> regeneration  efforts to  insure that our battles are won not just now
> but in years to come. Basically, I guess I'm asking-  wouldn't you
> need younger students to bring about the need to honor the older
> crowd?

>  thoughts?
>   Darian.

> On 2/3/10, Jessica Kostiw <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well well stated JedI!  Right on!!!  common sense isn't so common, and I
>> think all too often the opposite of what you just stated occurs much much
>> more than people want to admit!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involvedin
>> the NFB


>>> I've had it in mind to comment on what should be said to older members
>>> regarding the recruitment and retention of newer/younger members. Here are

>>> my thoughts as someone who is a member of what could be called an "older"
>>> affiliate with few young people in it.

>>> No matter what happens, no matter what events are held and who they are
>>> designed to target, the real key to recruiting and retaining new/young
>>> people is to honor them. What does that mean? To honor someone is to
>>> listen carefully to them and treat them in a manner that says "We value
>>> what you have to contribute." Each of us has our own perceptions of
>>> reality; we intuit meaning out of those perceptions and give them varying
>>> levels of significance and make decisions based on all those things. So
>>> often, it's easy to assume that young people are automatically
>>> inexperienced, unrefined, or simply don't know what they're talking about.

>>> That's not always true. When we honor people, we hear them out completely,

>>> inquire of them for further elaboration and meaning, and add our own
>>> experiences and opinions to the mix to come up with something
>>> collaborative. In the process, we all learn something: young or new
>>> members learn how to navigate the new culture they're in, and older and
>>> more seasoned members learn how to incorporate fresh ideas into the
>>> existing system. New members know when they are valued or not valued.
>>> Think about those times in any social situation when you get the feeling
>>> like you're not welcome. It may have been nothing that anyone has done or
>>> said directly, but you just know. for that reason, it's important to pay
>>> attention to not only what's said or done, but what's not said or done.
>>> And on that note, it's important to ask ourselves at all times, "Is this
>>> an affiliate or chapter I would want to belong to?" If the answer is yes,
>>> keep doing what you're doing. If the answer is no or even maybe, it's time

>>> to re-evaluate and see what you come up with. As a final thought in this
>>> section, be aware of not only how your members treat new people, but how
>>> they treat each other. New members will evaluate their interest in the
>>> group if there is an atmosphere of mutual respect and honor toward all
>>> members no matter who or what they are. If that mutual respect doesn't
>>> exist, rest assured that you won't see those new members again.

>>> Now what about events? It's not exactly true that all young people want
>>> big parties with no work involved, but a number of people seem to think
>>> that we do. I venture to say that a more appropriate way to think of
>>> things is to say that young people want to be a part of whatever's going
>>> on. Yes, a little social intermixed with work is important for all of us
>>> regardless of age or standing in the organization, and the affiliate or
>>> chapter would do some good to take that into account. If young people feel

>>> passionate about what they're doing in the Federation, they'll show up and

>>> provide their energy to it. yes, there will be young people who won't, but

>>> that's true of all people.

>>> I remember one thing that both Joanne and Dr. shroeder have said in the
>>> past and that is this: first and foremost, be a friend to new people in
>>> the Federation. Get to know them. Find out what they're dreams, passions,
>>> worries, and ideas are. In the process, you'll know what kinds of projects

>>> they might be interested in and put them to work right away. Put young
>>> people's energy to good use as soon as its available, and there's nothing
>>> more exciting to a newly blind person or a blind person brought up feeling

>>> useless that there is something they can do and they're expected to do it.

>>> I hope these comments help. Good luck with your elders at your upcoming
>>> convention.

>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi

>>> Original message:
>>>> Listers,
>>>>  Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
>>>>  another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
>>>> believe your advisor is karen Andersen
>>>>  Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
>>>> any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
>>>> resources in addition to being just great people!
>>>>  Now I'll shut up lol.
>>>>   have a great day   all,
>>>>   Darian

>>>> On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Kerri,
>>>>>   I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
>>>>> a good time for sure!
>>>>>   If you have three people who are interested in getting something
>>>>> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
>>>>> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>>>>>  We'll be  sending out the
>>>>>  info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
>>>>> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
>>>>> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
>>>>> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
>>>>> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
>>>>> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
>>>>> chat.
>>>>>  Best,
>>>>>  Darian



>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hey Darian:

>>>>>> Those are some good ideas.

>>>>>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.

>>>>>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>>>>>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
>>>>>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>>>>>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>>>>>> So, we are sort of getting one...

>>>>>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
>>>>>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
>>>>>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>>>>>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>>>>>> participate lol.

>>>>>> Kerri

>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Karri and Dacia,

>>>>>>>   The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>>>>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>>>>>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>>>>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>>>>>>> the point)
>>>>>>>  Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>>>>>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>>>>>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>>>>>   I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>>>>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>>>>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>>>>>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>>>>>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>>>>>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>>>>>>> focus groups.
>>>>>>>  Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>>>>>>  your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>>>>>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>>>>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>>>>>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>>>>>>> might bring some students too?
>>>>>>>   Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>>>>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>>>>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>>>>>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>>>>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>>>>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>>>>>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>>>>>  my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>>>>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>>>>>   Best,
>>>>>>>  Darian Smith
>>>>>>>  Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>>>>>  National association of blind students


>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi:

>>>>>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>>>>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>>>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.

>>>>>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>>>>>> National Center?
>>>>>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>>>>>> They may have some good suggestions.

>>>>>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get
>>>>>>>> involved
>>>>>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>>>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the
>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>>>>>>> still in high school.
>>>>>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>>>>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>>>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>>>>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.

>>>>>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep
>>>>>>>> youth
>>>>>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>>>>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>>>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>>>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>>>>>>> Jernigan Institute.

>>>>>>>> Kerri

>>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an
>>>>>>>>> officers
>>>>>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>>  If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have

>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the
>>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> this week, please.

>>>>>>>>> thank you in advance.

>>>>>>>>> Dacia Luck


>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com


>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org

>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



>>>>> --
>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org



>>>> --
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org

>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

>>> --
>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.

>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com



>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



> --
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
> www.TeachBlindStudents.org

> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Feb  4 06:33:59 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 01:33:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100204063359.9183.90607@web3.serotek.com>

Oh dear. I'm so sorry about all the typos. I just dashed that message 
off without thinking, didn't I?

Respecctfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Sarah,

> I agree that the blind are a niche market, and I also agree with the
> implementation of Universal design priciples and how they will
> undoubtedly benefit us. I think however, (and one person brought it up
> already) that the niche market of blind people might be paying extra
> for thing that we really ought not to. For example, some of our
> assistive technology products have very mainstream components. Why then
> are we expected to pay more? Why are we expected to pay more for
> products, that while specialized for us, also and often don't meet the
> specifications of mainstream products? aside from the specialized
> platform and the Braille input/output support, the braillenote apex,
> for example,now has stero sound, WiFi capability, more memory,
> replceable batteries, and chater services that mainstream products have
> had for much longer at at better prices. The PACMate is a simolar story.

> respectfully,
> Jedi
> Original message:
>> Yes... you make the same points I did, though perhaps more concisely.
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:

>>> All the points raised are valid ones, which I agree with on principle, but
>>> we need to look at this from other angles. Yes technology for the blind is
>>> expensive, but that's because it's a niche market, so to speak. The number
>>> of people requiring Braille or text to speech strictly because they cannot
>>> read a screen is small in comparison to the larger populous. Economically
>>> speaking, this means that there is a small demand, so prices must be higher
>>> for technology providers to make profits. They need these profits to
>>> operate, as any business would. So I would wonder if a better pursuit isn't
>>> to pressure mainstream technology providers to make their products more
>>> blind-friendly so that the number of assistive devices we need to purchase
>>> is lessened. Obviously anything to do with Braille would unfortunately have
>>> to remain in a "blind-specific" company, but given that North America has an
>>> aging population it should make sense that technology providers make screens
>>> larger, have better contrasts, and make all menus optionally audible. Apple
>>> is making serious headway in this matter, and I think they are setting a
>>> precedent that all companies should be following in order to remain
>>> competitive. Scanners and OCR technology should in theory be made more
>>> accessible (Adobe is making improvements in this way too) because companies
>>> are now trying to make themselves as paperless as possible. Given that all
>>> scanning and text-to-speech options are covered in the mainstream, more
>>> resources can be allocated to funding more Braille-specific devices such as
>>> embossers and Braille displays.

>>> Now I know that this is not instant, and that often blind-specific products
>>> such as JAWS or Kurzweill are superior to mainstream products but I think
>>> this is changing. Given the popularity the IPad is likely to attract, I am
>>> sure that in a few short years  we will be more likely to access electronic
>>> material and many other benefits as of yet unimagined by the blind
>>> community. I don't mean to perpetually wear rose-coloured glasses because I
>>> know that all is not perfect, but I think this argument needs to be
>>> redirected from sources of funding to developers of products to benefit not
>>> just those with no or little vision but all society.

>>> Thank you for your time.

>>> Sarah Jevnikar

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Beth
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:07 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

>>> I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>>> there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>>> bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>>> chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>>> 92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>>> us.
>>> Beth

>>> On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>>>> however I do have a position.

>>>> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>>>> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
>>>> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple
>>> to
>>>> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>>>> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>>>> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
>>>> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
>>>> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High
>>> school
>>>> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have
>>> the
>>>> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
>>>> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
>>>> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
>>>> least on one level.

>>>> Aziza
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the
>>> members

>>>>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being
>>> able

>>>>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
>>>>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated
>>> new

>>>>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
>>>>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
>>>>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>>>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>>>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies
>>> can

>>>>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>>>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>>>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>>>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>>>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>>>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>>>> Dear list,

>>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>>> settle
>>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>>> afford
>>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>>> you
>>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>>> software
>>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>>>>> par
>>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.

>>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

>>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,

>>>>>>> Joe Orozco

>>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado


>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________

>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com



>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:

>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.
>>> edu


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:

>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
>>> et


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:

>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40
>>> gmail.com



>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:

>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm
>>> ail.com


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>>> ronto.ca


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com


>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Feb  4 06:47:01 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 22:47:01 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <20100204053841.9184.47822@web3.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <E20F97A6E9DE4DDA8C2EFE1E3F93B72E@stanford.edu>

I don't want to get too involved in this conversation, but I think that 
Braille displays cost a good amount to make, which is the reason that some 
of the technology is so expensive.  Just look at the difference in the price 
of the VoiceNote, BrailleNote 18, and BrailleNote 32.  I don't know why the 
other components cost so much.  Is there anyone who could shed some light 
(no pun intended) on why other components cost so much and why things like 
screen readers and magnifiers often are not included in mainstream 
technology or, if they are, are not as good as the ones marketed by the 
specialized companies?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Sarah,
>
> I agree that the blind are a niche market, and I also agree with the 
> implementation of Universal design priciples and how they will undoubtedly 
> benefit us. I think however, (and one person brought it up already) that 
> the niche market of blind people might be paying extra for thing that we 
> really ought not to. For example, some of our assistive technology 
> products have very mainstream components. Why then are we expected to pay 
> more? Why are we expected to pay more for products, that while specialized 
> for us, also and often don't meet the specifications of mainstream 
> products? aside from the specialized platform and the Braille input/output 
> support, the braillenote apex, for example,now has stero sound, WiFi 
> capability, more memory, replceable batteries, and chater services that 
> mainstream products have had for much longer at at better prices. The 
> PACMate is a simolar story.
>
> respectfully,
> Jedi
> Original message:
>> Yes... you make the same points I did, though perhaps more concisely.
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
>
>>> All the points raised are valid ones, which I agree with on principle, 
>>> but
>>> we need to look at this from other angles. Yes technology for the blind 
>>> is
>>> expensive, but that's because it's a niche market, so to speak. The 
>>> number
>>> of people requiring Braille or text to speech strictly because they 
>>> cannot
>>> read a screen is small in comparison to the larger populous. 
>>> Economically
>>> speaking, this means that there is a small demand, so prices must be 
>>> higher
>>> for technology providers to make profits. They need these profits to
>>> operate, as any business would. So I would wonder if a better pursuit 
>>> isn't
>>> to pressure mainstream technology providers to make their products more
>>> blind-friendly so that the number of assistive devices we need to 
>>> purchase
>>> is lessened. Obviously anything to do with Braille would unfortunately 
>>> have
>>> to remain in a "blind-specific" company, but given that North America 
>>> has an
>>> aging population it should make sense that technology providers make 
>>> screens
>>> larger, have better contrasts, and make all menus optionally audible. 
>>> Apple
>>> is making serious headway in this matter, and I think they are setting a
>>> precedent that all companies should be following in order to remain
>>> competitive. Scanners and OCR technology should in theory be made more
>>> accessible (Adobe is making improvements in this way too) because 
>>> companies
>>> are now trying to make themselves as paperless as possible. Given that 
>>> all
>>> scanning and text-to-speech options are covered in the mainstream, more
>>> resources can be allocated to funding more Braille-specific devices such 
>>> as
>>> embossers and Braille displays.
>
>>> Now I know that this is not instant, and that often blind-specific 
>>> products
>>> such as JAWS or Kurzweill are superior to mainstream products but I 
>>> think
>>> this is changing. Given the popularity the IPad is likely to attract, I 
>>> am
>>> sure that in a few short years  we will be more likely to access 
>>> electronic
>>> material and many other benefits as of yet unimagined by the blind
>>> community. I don't mean to perpetually wear rose-coloured glasses 
>>> because I
>>> know that all is not perfect, but I think this argument needs to be
>>> redirected from sources of funding to developers of products to benefit 
>>> not
>>> just those with no or little vision but all society.
>
>>> Thank you for your time.
>
>>> Sarah Jevnikar
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Beth
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:07 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>>> I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>>> there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>>> bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>>> chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>>> 92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>>> us.
>>> Beth
>
>>> On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>>>> however I do have a position.
>
>>>> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>>>> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR 
>>>> are
>>>> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its 
>>>> simple
>>> to
>>>> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>>>> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>>>> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person 
>>>> would
>>>> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its 
>>>> fact.
>>>> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High
>>> school
>>>> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have
>>> the
>>>> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack 
>>>> the
>>>> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth 
>>>> would
>>>> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, 
>>>> at
>>>> least on one level.
>
>>>> Aziza
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the
>>> members
>
>>>>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being
>>> able
>
>>>>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker 
>>>>> shock.
>>>>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated
>>> new
>
>>>>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, 
>>>>> since
>>>>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not 
>>>>> everyone
>>>>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, 
>>>>> Ginnie.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it 
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>>>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies
>>> can
>
>>>>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>>>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>>>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>>>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than 
>>>>>> willing
>>>>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS 
>>>>>> Mailing
>>>>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>>>> Dear list,
>
>>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance 
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance 
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense 
>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>>> settle
>>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>>> afford
>>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>>> you
>>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>>> software
>>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. 
>>>>>>> Yet,
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a 
>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> par
>>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>
>>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.
>>> edu
>
>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
>>> et
>
>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> gmail.com
>
>
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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From brileyp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 07:57:49 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 01:57:49 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them
	involvedin	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <20100204063024.9183.32228@web3.serotek.com>
References: <20100204063024.9183.32228@web3.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <BCCF5F0A-39B0-4AAA-9FE7-8F65E6D42066@gmail.com>

This is a big part of the problem in my state. Young people are largely ignored, therefore the student division isn't as effective as it could be. It feels like we're 2 separate organizations sometimes rather than parts of a whole.	
On Feb 4, 2010, at 12:30 AM, Jedi wrote:

> Darian,
> 
> Honor is a two-way street. Sure, it's important to honor elders because they hold institutional information vital to the survival of the organization. On the other hand, many people don't often think of the second part of the honor street which is to honor young people, and not just because we have energy. Believe it or not, young people have great ideas and, as you pointed out, affiliate leaders (who tend to be older) need to support the entrance, growth, and development of those ideas. Most of that's done through mentoring, but you'd be surprised how many people in the Federation (and in other families and organizations) don't know how to mentor effectively. As Joanne once said, good mentoring isn't something you're born with. Mentoring skills take... well... mentoring. Perhaps it might be useful for our organization to do some organizational development where affiliate action spends the time to visit each affiliate, check things out, and makes suggestions to help the affiliate out on an organizationand interpersonal level while offering the needed resources to do it. We can send all kinds of people to the National center to get this kind of training, but it's hard for one person to implement it in an environment where the concepts may be unfamiliar or where people might be unwilling to hear them, especially from a younger person.
> 
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
> Original message:
>> I think that  there is certainly something to be said for  honoring
>> the  contributions of each other  as a general idea. People like being
>> appreciated   and valuedfor who they are.
>> That said (and i appreciate Jedi saying it)  wouldn't  the question
>> of getting  youth involved in our  movement be kind of a tricky thing?
>> Would seem as if you would need  to have a supportive leadership
>> structure on the  state level who will see the need for  the
>> regeneration  efforts to  insure that our battles are won not just now
>> but in years to come. Basically, I guess I'm asking-  wouldn't you
>> need younger students to bring about the need to honor the older
>> crowd?
> 
>> thoughts?
>>  Darian.
> 
>> On 2/3/10, Jessica Kostiw <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Well well stated JedI!  Right on!!!  common sense isn't so common, and I
>>> think all too often the opposite of what you just stated occurs much much
>>> more than people want to admit!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involvedin
>>> the NFB
> 
> 
>>>> I've had it in mind to comment on what should be said to older members
>>>> regarding the recruitment and retention of newer/younger members. Here are
> 
>>>> my thoughts as someone who is a member of what could be called an "older"
>>>> affiliate with few young people in it.
> 
>>>> No matter what happens, no matter what events are held and who they are
>>>> designed to target, the real key to recruiting and retaining new/young
>>>> people is to honor them. What does that mean? To honor someone is to
>>>> listen carefully to them and treat them in a manner that says "We value
>>>> what you have to contribute." Each of us has our own perceptions of
>>>> reality; we intuit meaning out of those perceptions and give them varying
>>>> levels of significance and make decisions based on all those things. So
>>>> often, it's easy to assume that young people are automatically
>>>> inexperienced, unrefined, or simply don't know what they're talking about.
> 
>>>> That's not always true. When we honor people, we hear them out completely,
> 
>>>> inquire of them for further elaboration and meaning, and add our own
>>>> experiences and opinions to the mix to come up with something
>>>> collaborative. In the process, we all learn something: young or new
>>>> members learn how to navigate the new culture they're in, and older and
>>>> more seasoned members learn how to incorporate fresh ideas into the
>>>> existing system. New members know when they are valued or not valued.
>>>> Think about those times in any social situation when you get the feeling
>>>> like you're not welcome. It may have been nothing that anyone has done or
>>>> said directly, but you just know. for that reason, it's important to pay
>>>> attention to not only what's said or done, but what's not said or done.
>>>> And on that note, it's important to ask ourselves at all times, "Is this
>>>> an affiliate or chapter I would want to belong to?" If the answer is yes,
>>>> keep doing what you're doing. If the answer is no or even maybe, it's time
> 
>>>> to re-evaluate and see what you come up with. As a final thought in this
>>>> section, be aware of not only how your members treat new people, but how
>>>> they treat each other. New members will evaluate their interest in the
>>>> group if there is an atmosphere of mutual respect and honor toward all
>>>> members no matter who or what they are. If that mutual respect doesn't
>>>> exist, rest assured that you won't see those new members again.
> 
>>>> Now what about events? It's not exactly true that all young people want
>>>> big parties with no work involved, but a number of people seem to think
>>>> that we do. I venture to say that a more appropriate way to think of
>>>> things is to say that young people want to be a part of whatever's going
>>>> on. Yes, a little social intermixed with work is important for all of us
>>>> regardless of age or standing in the organization, and the affiliate or
>>>> chapter would do some good to take that into account. If young people feel
> 
>>>> passionate about what they're doing in the Federation, they'll show up and
> 
>>>> provide their energy to it. yes, there will be young people who won't, but
> 
>>>> that's true of all people.
> 
>>>> I remember one thing that both Joanne and Dr. shroeder have said in the
>>>> past and that is this: first and foremost, be a friend to new people in
>>>> the Federation. Get to know them. Find out what they're dreams, passions,
>>>> worries, and ideas are. In the process, you'll know what kinds of projects
> 
>>>> they might be interested in and put them to work right away. Put young
>>>> people's energy to good use as soon as its available, and there's nothing
>>>> more exciting to a newly blind person or a blind person brought up feeling
> 
>>>> useless that there is something they can do and they're expected to do it.
> 
>>>> I hope these comments help. Good luck with your elders at your upcoming
>>>> convention.
> 
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
> 
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> Listers,
>>>>> Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
>>>>> another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
>>>>> believe your advisor is karen Andersen
>>>>> Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
>>>>> any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
>>>>> resources in addition to being just great people!
>>>>> Now I'll shut up lol.
>>>>>  have a great day   all,
>>>>>  Darian
> 
>>>>> On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Kerri,
>>>>>>  I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
>>>>>> a good time for sure!
>>>>>>  If you have three people who are interested in getting something
>>>>>> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
>>>>>> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>>>>>> We'll be  sending out the
>>>>>> info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
>>>>>> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
>>>>>> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
>>>>>> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
>>>>>> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
>>>>>> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
>>>>>> chat.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Darian
> 
> 
> 
>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey Darian:
> 
>>>>>>> Those are some good ideas.
> 
>>>>>>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.
> 
>>>>>>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>>>>>>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised at
>>>>>>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>>>>>>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>>>>>>> So, we are sort of getting one...
> 
>>>>>>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though since
>>>>>>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference call.
>>>>>>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>>>>>>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>>>>>>> participate lol.
> 
>>>>>>> Kerri
> 
>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Karri and Dacia,
> 
>>>>>>>>  The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>>>>>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we all
>>>>>>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>>>>>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you get
>>>>>>>> the point)
>>>>>>>> Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;   the
>>>>>>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org" is
>>>>>>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>>>>>>  I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>>>>>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>>>>>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a joint
>>>>>>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at a
>>>>>>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw there
>>>>>>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own little
>>>>>>>> focus groups.
>>>>>>>> Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships with
>>>>>>>> your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually impaired;
>>>>>>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>>>>>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak at
>>>>>>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe they
>>>>>>>> might bring some students too?
>>>>>>>>  Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>>>>>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>>>>>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There is
>>>>>>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>>>>>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>>>>>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I would
>>>>>>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>>>>>> my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>>>>>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>>>>>>  Best,
>>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>>> Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>>>>>> National association of blind students
> 
> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi:
> 
>>>>>>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all it
>>>>>>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>>>>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
> 
>>>>>>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>>>>>>> National Center?
>>>>>>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>>>>>>> They may have some good suggestions.
> 
>>>>>>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get
>>>>>>>>> involved
>>>>>>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>>>>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the
>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who are
>>>>>>>>> still in high school.
>>>>>>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got older...I
>>>>>>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>>>>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the convention. I
>>>>>>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
> 
>>>>>>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep
>>>>>>>>> youth
>>>>>>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes so I
>>>>>>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>>>>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and the
>>>>>>>>> Jernigan Institute.
> 
>>>>>>>>> Kerri
> 
>>>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an
>>>>>>>>>> officers
>>>>>>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>>>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would be
>>>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>>> If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could have
> 
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by the
>>>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> this week, please.
> 
>>>>>>>>>> thank you in advance.
> 
>>>>>>>>>> Dacia Luck
> 
> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
> 
> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
> 
> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
> 
> 
> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
> 
>>>> --
>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jessicac.kostiw%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
> 
> -- 
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
> 
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From brileyp at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 08:26:23 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 02:26:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <E20F97A6E9DE4DDA8C2EFE1E3F93B72E@stanford.edu>
References: <20100204053841.9184.47822@web3.serotek.com>
	<E20F97A6E9DE4DDA8C2EFE1E3F93B72E@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <405B1624-11DE-4CFB-95D1-791C0F895800@gmail.com>

It is important to remember that we are a small market in the grand scheme of things. So it will take being a little louder, (not necessarily in an aggressive way mind you), about what our needs ere so mainstream companies will hear. Apple has paved the way in some respects, so we can only hope this trend will continue. 
On Feb 4, 2010, at 12:47 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:

> I don't want to get too involved in this conversation, but I think that Braille displays cost a good amount to make, which is the reason that some of the technology is so expensive.  Just look at the difference in the price of the VoiceNote, BrailleNote 18, and BrailleNote 32.  I don't know why the other components cost so much.  Is there anyone who could shed some light (no pun intended) on why other components cost so much and why things like screen readers and magnifiers often are not included in mainstream technology or, if they are, are not as good as the ones marketed by the specialized companies?
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> 
> 
>> Sarah,
>> 
>> I agree that the blind are a niche market, and I also agree with the implementation of Universal design priciples and how they will undoubtedly benefit us. I think however, (and one person brought it up already) that the niche market of blind people might be paying extra for thing that we really ought not to. For example, some of our assistive technology products have very mainstream components. Why then are we expected to pay more? Why are we expected to pay more for products, that while specialized for us, also and often don't meet the specifications of mainstream products? aside from the specialized platform and the Braille input/output support, the braillenote apex, for example,now has stero sound, WiFi capability, more memory, replceable batteries, and chater services that mainstream products have had for much longer at at better prices. The PACMate is a simolar story.
>> 
>> respectfully,
>> Jedi
>> Original message:
>>> Yes... you make the same points I did, though perhaps more concisely.
>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:21 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
>> 
>>>> All the points raised are valid ones, which I agree with on principle, but
>>>> we need to look at this from other angles. Yes technology for the blind is
>>>> expensive, but that's because it's a niche market, so to speak. The number
>>>> of people requiring Braille or text to speech strictly because they cannot
>>>> read a screen is small in comparison to the larger populous. Economically
>>>> speaking, this means that there is a small demand, so prices must be higher
>>>> for technology providers to make profits. They need these profits to
>>>> operate, as any business would. So I would wonder if a better pursuit isn't
>>>> to pressure mainstream technology providers to make their products more
>>>> blind-friendly so that the number of assistive devices we need to purchase
>>>> is lessened. Obviously anything to do with Braille would unfortunately have
>>>> to remain in a "blind-specific" company, but given that North America has an
>>>> aging population it should make sense that technology providers make screens
>>>> larger, have better contrasts, and make all menus optionally audible. Apple
>>>> is making serious headway in this matter, and I think they are setting a
>>>> precedent that all companies should be following in order to remain
>>>> competitive. Scanners and OCR technology should in theory be made more
>>>> accessible (Adobe is making improvements in this way too) because companies
>>>> are now trying to make themselves as paperless as possible. Given that all
>>>> scanning and text-to-speech options are covered in the mainstream, more
>>>> resources can be allocated to funding more Braille-specific devices such as
>>>> embossers and Braille displays.
>> 
>>>> Now I know that this is not instant, and that often blind-specific products
>>>> such as JAWS or Kurzweill are superior to mainstream products but I think
>>>> this is changing. Given the popularity the IPad is likely to attract, I am
>>>> sure that in a few short years  we will be more likely to access electronic
>>>> material and many other benefits as of yet unimagined by the blind
>>>> community. I don't mean to perpetually wear rose-coloured glasses because I
>>>> know that all is not perfect, but I think this argument needs to be
>>>> redirected from sources of funding to developers of products to benefit not
>>>> just those with no or little vision but all society.
>> 
>>>> Thank you for your time.
>> 
>>>> Sarah Jevnikar
>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>> Of Beth
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 10:07 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>>>> I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>>>> there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>>>> bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>>>> chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>>>> 92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>>>> us.
>>>> Beth
>> 
>>>> On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>>>>> however I do have a position.
>> 
>>>>> I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>>>>> individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
>>>>> reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple
>>>> to
>>>>> understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>>>>> translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>>>>> However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
>>>>> cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
>>>>> That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. High
>>>> school
>>>>> and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have
>>>> the
>>>>> funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
>>>>> funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
>>>>> receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
>>>>> least on one level.
>> 
>>>>> Aziza
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the
>>>> members
>> 
>>>>>> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being
>>>> able
>> 
>>>>>> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
>>>>>> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated
>>>> new
>> 
>>>>>> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
>>>>>> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
>>>>>> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
>>>>>>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>>>>>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies
>>>> can
>> 
>>>>>>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>>>>>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>>>>>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>>>>>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
>>>>>>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
>>>>>>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>>>> settle
>>>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>>>> afford
>>>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>>>> you
>>>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>>>> software
>>>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. Yet,
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>>>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>>>>>> par
>>>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>> 
>>>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>> 
>>>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>> 
>>>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>> 
>>>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>> 
>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> 
>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>> 
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.
>>>> edu
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>> 
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.n
>>>> et
>> 
>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>> 
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40
>>>> gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>> 
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gm
>>>> ail.com
>> 
>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>>>> ronto.ca
>> 
>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>> 
>> -- 
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Thu Feb  4 11:10:53 2010
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 03:10:53 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope><CCA709CC-21C0-4B50-B8AA-C94A2C40CAEE@gmail.com><59705CC41EF0419895CA034C8CCB033C@SonyPC><E23E9C7E55194F92BC6EBE0D306FE30B@azizapc>
	<5C838E30-EC42-4DB4-8AA7-AAA4FAE49E5A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8292DD357E834518ADFDD5D494C74215@windows4c0ed96>

I am not a conservative politically, but I am a pragmatist.  As you say in 
this message, the more expensive products like Jaws and Window eyes may have 
some advantages that make  these screen readers easier to use or more 
efficient than the cheaper versions.  With time, we can hope  to encourage 
work towards universal design, as many have mentioned in this discussion. 
Just one quick classic  example of universal design  may be the Prodigy 
blood glucose meter, which costs under forty dollars and which the NFB has 
praised as the best product for a blind diabetic to use.   The Prodigy came 
out as a new product about four years ago.Before the prodigy,  a large 
number of blind diabetics were using  a special adaptive product called 
"Voice Mates" by Accucheck, it was the only talking meter  that was very 
feasible to use without vision for some time.  Yet this specialized  Voice 
Mates device cost over five hundred dollars and does not have the same ease 
of use as the cheaper Prodigy.  Yet the Prodigy was designed and 
manufactured for the mass, say sighted market. But it was seen as a 
desireable feature for the sighted to hear their blood sugar read out loud. 
Now of course, the market for diabetic devices is far  from a small niche 
market, since America has now in excess of sixteen million diabetics.  My 
point is that even though we  as consumers of blindness products are a small 
market, we can work to encourage universal designs and utilize alternative 
products such as Seroteck.    But I feel this  is a long term strategy, and 
waiting for the great day may leave many blind people without the assistive 
technology they need for months and years.  It sometimes eludes sighted 
people what a necessity what we may call a talking computer system is.  It 
simply gives one access to a quality of life impossible without assistive 
technology.  It seems to me in the short run, a strategy we might use is to 
find non govermental money  from charitable organizations or philanthropists 
to buy existing technology such as Pac Mates or Braille Notes for our 
consumers, while we are  working  for changes in the pricing structure or 
the marketplace to bring down costs for blindness gear over a time.    I 
think this could be done on perhaps a cost sharing basis, with someone 
always bearing a part of the cost of his or her equipment.   I would like to 
see the costs of training and repair also be considered In another post, 
someone details the many marvelous things available through Seroteck.  But 
if you have been out of the loop about technology because you could not 
afford it, who will teach or tune you in to this stuff?  Peer help should 
maybe be organized, or affordable training subsidized, this is just a 
thought..  In my case, I do have funding from the Department of Rehab in 
california and I have received many helpful pieces of adaptive equipment, 
not without a struggle at times, and been denied for many things.I also am 
lucky to be able, at least currently to pay out of pocket for some things 
myself. Next week, someone will be coming to my home to repair my Open Book, 
which just has some mysterious glitch all of a sudden.  It will cost the 
state agency or DOR one hundred and sixty dollars for two hours of  repair 
of my equipment.  This would be steep for many to pay themselves.  It seems 
people can be in a catch 22 situation, they need technology to get ahead, 
but they cannot afford technology.  But like Jo Orozco asks , what are the 
dimensions of the need we have out  there? Would it be embarrassing for an 
individual to write in to this list to say he or she is not able to afford 
technology or training?  What of someone who has a case closed for whatever 
reason, can such a person come forward and ask for help without feeling 
humiliated?  I throw out all this since I know this is a highly intelligent, 
creative list and solutions can be found  probably if we work together..   I 
am not a business major, alas, but this change in the marketplace may take 
some time, I could be wrong.  So  in the meantime why not tap into 
charitable foundations that could buy current popular technology for  blind 
individuals such as Jaws, Window Eyes, Pac mate, Braille Note, Open Book, 
and so on.  One advantage of these familiar products is that one is more 
likely to find peers who can help them learn  or trouble shoot this 
technology.  I can easily contact many people, or at least I think I could, 
who are Window Eyes users if I need help, since this screen reader has a 
large user base.    Having non profits or private charitable foundations 
help could be done on a  cost sharing basis perhaps, with someone always 
paying in part for  his or her equipment.  I have thought that non 
governmental money from non profit organizations or donations from  large 
corporations would liberate some from the  sometimes daunting Voc Rehab 
bureaucracy.  What about approaching such entities as the Bill and Melinda 
Gates Foundation?  Or even someone like Dan Googin? There also may be grants 
available from  certain agencies in the public or private sectorI am not 
aware of; although I  am planning to  read up on grant writing..  Forgive me 
for my brainstorming  style here, these are just some preliminary thoughts. 
And again, this  issue is complex, and I am so glad we are discusssing this. 
I would be happy to work on any campaign  that develops.  Best regards, 
GinnieOriginal Message ----- 
From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Apple is really the leader in built in accessibility, and yes, I think 
> that is the only way we're going to see a decrease in what we pay to use 
> technology. If mainstream devices start coming with built in accessibility 
> features, that would be a preferable solution. To answer your question, if 
> a huge company like Freedom Scientific has 80 percent of the market share, 
> and people are paying $800 for their screen reader...why would they lower 
> their price? They may eventually go to a payment plan, but they really 
> have no incentive business wise to do so. Blind people may be pissed at 
> how much things cost...but at the end of the day, the companies still get 
> the money. If we want a change, we'll have to stop using their products. 
> The rub is that they're good products, and probably in many ways more 
> efficient than the cheaper options.
>
> Just some thoughts,
> Briley
> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Aziza wrote:
>
>> My question, and I hope this makes sense... is:
>> If these things, like screen reading software, and such is becoming a 
>> standard necessity for blind people, why hasn't the price gone down? I 
>> mean, that's normally what happens with technology right? New stuff is 
>> really expensive, but overtime as it becomes used by a large amount of 
>> people the price goes down. So, if their is a specific population of 
>> people using this stuff, why hasn't the price decreased?
>>
>> Also, does anyone know if the tech manifactures have considred taking a 
>> look at assistive tech and trying to make built in features on their 
>> general pieces of technology? Like, a computer with built in screen 
>> reader capabilitys, but one that actually works well enough so that we 
>> don't need to go and buy a separate one. If it was standard and included 
>> wouldn't it cost less?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>
>>> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software comparable 
>>> to JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a 
>>> donation of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This 
>>> would solve the problem without having to rely on government.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>
>>>
>>>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply 
>>>> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a 
>>>> dangerous door to expect the government to limit how much things can 
>>>> cost? At the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist 
>>>> as charities, they are businesses just like any other, except for the 
>>>> fact that they are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is 
>>>> horrible that they exploit our need for these products to make a buck? 
>>>> Of course. Isn't that capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any 
>>>> stretch of the imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on 
>>>> this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the argument.
>>>>
>>>> Briley
>>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've 
>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it 
>>>>> without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in 
>>>>> high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that 
>>>>> companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying 
>>>>> $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is 
>>>>> ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with 
>>>>> mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more 
>>>>> than willing to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" 
>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS 
>>>>> Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear list,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance 
>>>>>> from your
>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance 
>>>>>> after you
>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to 
>>>>>> settle
>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, 
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot 
>>>>>> afford
>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
>>>>>> attention to
>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to 
>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. 
>>>>>> Yet, it
>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government 
>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a 
>>>>>> device
>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on 
>>>>>> par
>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's 
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>>>>>> signature
>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From l.sterling0 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:32:12 2010
From: l.sterling0 at gmail.com (lsterling0)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:32:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [gui-talk] Fwd: Press Release: Technology Bill Of
	RightsIntroduced	For Blind U.S. Citizens
Message-ID: <007501caa5af$39aadfc0$ad009f40$@com>



Owner of vipspouses a list for visually impaired and blind individuals to
discuss frustrations in their lives.
for an invertation To join contact 
lsterling0 at gmail.com



-----Original Message-----
From: gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:gui-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Pattison
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:36 PM
To: CUG Members
Subject: [gui-talk] Fwd: Press Release: Technology Bill Of RightsIntroduced
For Blind U.S. Citizens

From: Accessible Devices parker2745 at accessible-devices.com

 U.S. Representative Jan Schakowsky Introduces Technology Bill of 
Rights for the Blind
WASHINGTON, Jan. 27 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/
National Federation of the Blind Applauds Measure to Ensure Blind People 
Equal Access
to Technology
Representative Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) today introduced the Technology Bill 
of Rights
for the Blind (H.R. 4533), which will mandate that all consumer 
electronics, home
appliances, kiosks, and electronic office technology provide user 
interfaces that
are accessible to the blind.
Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: 
"The National
Federation of the Blind appreciates the wise and decisive action taken 
today by Representative
Schakowsky. In recent years, advances in microchip and digital technology 
have led
to the proliferation of everyday products such as dishwashers or copy 
machines that
have visual displays and other user interfaces that are inaccessible to 
individuals
who are blind or have low vision. Inaccessibility of these devices is a 
major barrier
to a blind person's independence and productivity. The Technology Bill of 
Rights
will ensure that manufacturers make their products accessible to all 
consumers, and
that blind people will not be left behind as technology continues to 
advance."
"The importance of access to technology in today's society cannot be 
overstated.
In many cases, a person's livelihood depends upon the ability to use 
technology,"
said Representative Schakowsky. "This bill will allow people who are blind 
or have
low vision to compete on a level playing field with their sighted peers 
and remain
productive members of society."
About the National Federation of the Blind
With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the 
largest
and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United 
States.
The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, 
research, technology,
and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the 
leading force
in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In 
January 2004
the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, 
the first
research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the 
blind.
SOURCE National Federation of the Blind

Regards Steve
Email:  srp at internode.on.net
MSN Messenger:  internetuser383 at hotmail.com
Skype:  steve1963
Twitter:  steve9782

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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 15:49:35 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 07:49:35 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them involvedin
	the NFB
In-Reply-To: <BCCF5F0A-39B0-4AAA-9FE7-8F65E6D42066@gmail.com>
References: <20100204063024.9183.32228@web3.serotek.com>
	<BCCF5F0A-39B0-4AAA-9FE7-8F65E6D42066@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002040749x5e78c462n4836a5ef8d50ab48@mail.gmail.com>

Agreed,
 honoring, respecting each other is just  that-- doing so to  "each
other".   It would be great if  state affiliate presidents   were
rather good at this  concept we call mentoring and  visited each
chapter. Or, just somebody who  is respected in the state affiliate
and has this skill.   It's my personal view  that mentor ship is not
simply the  one -way flow  or sharing of information, but the
communication of  expiriences between two people  (with a value  put
on each person's point  of view)
 both  people share with a little more of a focus  on  topic related
expiriences being shared with the person who  is viewed to have a
Privilage in knowing  the subject area ( knowing how to make funnel
cake with  chocolate sprinkles, for example).

  with that said, I'm  off to  learn stuff! :) have a great day listers!
  Darian

On 2/3/10, Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a big part of the problem in my state. Young people are largely
> ignored, therefore the student division isn't as effective as it could be.
> It feels like we're 2 separate organizations sometimes rather than parts of
> a whole.	
> On Feb 4, 2010, at 12:30 AM, Jedi wrote:
>
>> Darian,
>>
>> Honor is a two-way street. Sure, it's important to honor elders because
>> they hold institutional information vital to the survival of the
>> organization. On the other hand, many people don't often think of the
>> second part of the honor street which is to honor young people, and not
>> just because we have energy. Believe it or not, young people have great
>> ideas and, as you pointed out, affiliate leaders (who tend to be older)
>> need to support the entrance, growth, and development of those ideas. Most
>> of that's done through mentoring, but you'd be surprised how many people
>> in the Federation (and in other families and organizations) don't know how
>> to mentor effectively. As Joanne once said, good mentoring isn't something
>> you're born with. Mentoring skills take... well... mentoring. Perhaps it
>> might be useful for our organization to do some organizational development
>> where affiliate action spends the time to visit each affiliate, check
>> things out, and makes suggestions to help the affiliate out on an
>> organizationand interpersonal level while offering the needed resources to
>> do it. We can send all kinds of people to the National center to get this
>> kind of training, but it's hard for one person to implement it in an
>> environment where the concepts may be unfamiliar or where people might be
>> unwilling to hear them, especially from a younger person.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>> Original message:
>>> I think that  there is certainly something to be said for  honoring
>>> the  contributions of each other  as a general idea. People like being
>>> appreciated   and valuedfor who they are.
>>> That said (and i appreciate Jedi saying it)  wouldn't  the question
>>> of getting  youth involved in our  movement be kind of a tricky thing?
>>> Would seem as if you would need  to have a supportive leadership
>>> structure on the  state level who will see the need for  the
>>> regeneration  efforts to  insure that our battles are won not just now
>>> but in years to come. Basically, I guess I'm asking-  wouldn't you
>>> need younger students to bring about the need to honor the older
>>> crowd?
>>
>>> thoughts?
>>>  Darian.
>>
>>> On 2/3/10, Jessica Kostiw <jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Well well stated JedI!  Right on!!!  common sense isn't so common, and I
>>>> think all too often the opposite of what you just stated occurs much
>>>> much
>>>> more than people want to admit!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:32 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] recruiting young people and keeping them
>>>> involvedin
>>>> the NFB
>>
>>
>>>>> I've had it in mind to comment on what should be said to older members
>>>>> regarding the recruitment and retention of newer/younger members. Here
>>>>> are
>>
>>>>> my thoughts as someone who is a member of what could be called an
>>>>> "older"
>>>>> affiliate with few young people in it.
>>
>>>>> No matter what happens, no matter what events are held and who they are
>>>>> designed to target, the real key to recruiting and retaining new/young
>>>>> people is to honor them. What does that mean? To honor someone is to
>>>>> listen carefully to them and treat them in a manner that says "We value
>>>>> what you have to contribute." Each of us has our own perceptions of
>>>>> reality; we intuit meaning out of those perceptions and give them
>>>>> varying
>>>>> levels of significance and make decisions based on all those things. So
>>>>> often, it's easy to assume that young people are automatically
>>>>> inexperienced, unrefined, or simply don't know what they're talking
>>>>> about.
>>
>>>>> That's not always true. When we honor people, we hear them out
>>>>> completely,
>>
>>>>> inquire of them for further elaboration and meaning, and add our own
>>>>> experiences and opinions to the mix to come up with something
>>>>> collaborative. In the process, we all learn something: young or new
>>>>> members learn how to navigate the new culture they're in, and older and
>>>>> more seasoned members learn how to incorporate fresh ideas into the
>>>>> existing system. New members know when they are valued or not valued.
>>>>> Think about those times in any social situation when you get the
>>>>> feeling
>>>>> like you're not welcome. It may have been nothing that anyone has done
>>>>> or
>>>>> said directly, but you just know. for that reason, it's important to
>>>>> pay
>>>>> attention to not only what's said or done, but what's not said or done.
>>>>> And on that note, it's important to ask ourselves at all times, "Is
>>>>> this
>>>>> an affiliate or chapter I would want to belong to?" If the answer is
>>>>> yes,
>>>>> keep doing what you're doing. If the answer is no or even maybe, it's
>>>>> time
>>
>>>>> to re-evaluate and see what you come up with. As a final thought in
>>>>> this
>>>>> section, be aware of not only how your members treat new people, but
>>>>> how
>>>>> they treat each other. New members will evaluate their interest in the
>>>>> group if there is an atmosphere of mutual respect and honor toward all
>>>>> members no matter who or what they are. If that mutual respect doesn't
>>>>> exist, rest assured that you won't see those new members again.
>>
>>>>> Now what about events? It's not exactly true that all young people want
>>>>> big parties with no work involved, but a number of people seem to think
>>>>> that we do. I venture to say that a more appropriate way to think of
>>>>> things is to say that young people want to be a part of whatever's
>>>>> going
>>>>> on. Yes, a little social intermixed with work is important for all of
>>>>> us
>>>>> regardless of age or standing in the organization, and the affiliate or
>>>>> chapter would do some good to take that into account. If young people
>>>>> feel
>>
>>>>> passionate about what they're doing in the Federation, they'll show up
>>>>> and
>>
>>>>> provide their energy to it. yes, there will be young people who won't,
>>>>> but
>>
>>>>> that's true of all people.
>>
>>>>> I remember one thing that both Joanne and Dr. shroeder have said in the
>>>>> past and that is this: first and foremost, be a friend to new people in
>>>>> the Federation. Get to know them. Find out what they're dreams,
>>>>> passions,
>>>>> worries, and ideas are. In the process, you'll know what kinds of
>>>>> projects
>>
>>>>> they might be interested in and put them to work right away. Put young
>>>>> people's energy to good use as soon as its available, and there's
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> more exciting to a newly blind person or a blind person brought up
>>>>> feeling
>>
>>>>> useless that there is something they can do and they're expected to do
>>>>> it.
>>
>>>>> I hope these comments help. Good luck with your elders at your upcoming
>>>>> convention.
>>
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Jedi
>>
>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>> Listers,
>>>>>> Granted, this is to Karri and  Dacia, but  can apply to everybody.
>>>>>> another real helpful tool is your  nabs student advisor.  Kerri: I
>>>>>> believe your advisor is karen Andersen
>>>>>> Dacia: I believe your advisor is Megan Whalan (forgive the tuypos if
>>>>>> any, I'm in a bit of a rush).  Both of  these individuals are  great
>>>>>> resources in addition to being just great people!
>>>>>> Now I'll shut up lol.
>>>>>>  have a great day   all,
>>>>>>  Darian
>>
>>>>>> On 2/2/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Kerri,
>>>>>>>  I heard about the event you guys had at convention; it sounded like
>>>>>>> a good time for sure!
>>>>>>>  If you have three people who are interested in getting something
>>>>>>> started; you have  three more  than some  and  sometimes it's not the
>>>>>>> number of people, but the effort those three put into  the efforts.
>>>>>>> We'll be  sending out the
>>>>>>> info for the next call - yes  fellow listers another one is coming up
>>>>>>> soon! so  please do  keep  a look out on the list serve for  it. As
>>>>>>> always, these calls are open to everybody and you are more than
>>>>>>> welcome to listen or comment as you feel (so long as  it's done with
>>>>>>> respect in mind).  Kerri, you are more than welcome to-as anybody is
>>>>>>> to contact me off-list  should you have any questions or wish to
>>>>>>> chat.
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Darian
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hey Darian:
>>
>>>>>>>> Those are some good ideas.
>>
>>>>>>>> I am hoping to go to convention this year.
>>
>>>>>>>> I am in West Virginia. They are sort of a rural little state.
>>>>>>>> We really don't have a student division right now. Money was raised
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> our last state convention to start one. Right now it has like three
>>>>>>>> members and no officers or anything like that.
>>>>>>>> So, we are sort of getting one...
>>
>>>>>>>> I am hoping soon I can get involved with NABS nationally though
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>> our state doesn't have one. I hope to attend the next conference
>>>>>>>> call.
>>>>>>>> I would've attended the last one but I am not attending Washington
>>>>>>>> Seminar and I mistakenly thought you had to be attending that to
>>>>>>>> participate lol.
>>
>>>>>>>> Kerri
>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Karri and Dacia,
>>
>>>>>>>>>  The question of how to get youth involved is our  organization's
>>>>>>>>> version of " what's  the meaning of life"  - a question that  we
>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> think we have an answer to but  not just one things seems to work.
>>>>>>>>> (ok, maybe  not the best thing I could have used, but I'm sure you
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> the point)
>>>>>>>>> Affiliate action is always a good direction to go in, as well;
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> National Association of Blind Student's website "www.nabslink.org"
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> also a good  aveanue.
>>>>>>>>>  I also  would suggest talking with the President of  the Parents
>>>>>>>>> Divisionon both state and  national levels to see how to get  in
>>>>>>>>> contact with parents of blind children and  possibly work out a
>>>>>>>>> joint
>>>>>>>>> meeting between the parent's division and the student division  at
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> state convention or something like that.  This way, you can  saw
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is something for everyone. and both groups can have   their own
>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>> focus groups.
>>>>>>>>> Another way of doing things is to  try to develope relationships
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> your school for the  blind and or teachers of the visually
>>>>>>>>> impaired;
>>>>>>>>> invite them to convention, if any of them have  a view of blindness
>>>>>>>>> that is similar in philosiphy to that of the NFB; have them speak
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> your student meeting- if they know they are going to talk, maybe
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> might bring some students too?
>>>>>>>>>  Karri- this past year's convention was a great one to be at for
>>>>>>>>> sure.  There always is  such great energy at these conventions, but
>>>>>>>>> this last one stood out to me in just  the livelyness of it.  There
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> generally alot of activity  going on- so many places to go to  and
>>>>>>>>> people to see and not enough time to do it.  if you get the
>>>>>>>>> oppertunity to go to this year's convention (in Dallas Texas) I
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> very much say "Do it!" :)
>>>>>>>>> my question for you Karri is, what state are you in?  are you
>>>>>>>>> involved with  the student division / chapter in your state?
>>>>>>>>>  Best,
>>>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>>>> Board member  /membership co-chair
>>>>>>>>> National association of blind students
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, Kerri Kosten <kerrik2006 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am a 22-year-old college student. I really like the NFB and all
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> stands for including it's philosophy of equality for the bind and
>>>>>>>>>> making blindness a nuisence with proper training.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have you tried contacting the Aphiliate Action department at the
>>>>>>>>>> National Center?
>>>>>>>>>> What about the Jernigan Institute?
>>>>>>>>>> They may have some good suggestions.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> As for myself, when I was younger the NFB really tried to get
>>>>>>>>>> involved
>>>>>>>>>> in my Mother and I's lives. But, my mother for some reason didn't
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> them...I guess she thought she could do better with me.
>>>>>>>>>> I wish so much now that she would've gotten involved...because the
>>>>>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>>>>>> seems to have so much for youth...at least youth under 18 or who
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> still in high school.
>>>>>>>>>> I also had a lot of misconceptions about the NFB when I got
>>>>>>>>>> older...I
>>>>>>>>>> thought they were just a bunch of blind people.
>>>>>>>>>> I was bored this past July and decided to listen to the
>>>>>>>>>> convention. I
>>>>>>>>>> was fascinated and immediately was hooked.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> I honestly don't know and can't understand why it's hard to keep
>>>>>>>>>> youth
>>>>>>>>>> interested in the NFB...I honestly wish I were younger sometimes
>>>>>>>>>> so I
>>>>>>>>>> could participate in all the social, and academic programs the NFB
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> to offer for students under 18.
>>>>>>>>>> I hope this message does not offend anyone...just my thoughts.
>>>>>>>>>> But, I would try contacting the Aphiliate Action department and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Jernigan Institute.
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kerri
>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/1/10, daisydacia at centurytel.net <daisydacia at centurytel.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> Two weeks from now, the MO state affiliate will be hosting an
>>>>>>>>>>> officers
>>>>>>>>>>> seminar.  I was asked to present on the topic of recruiting young
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> also how to keep them involved.  Any suggestions to include in my
>>>>>>>>>>> presentation as well as any literature anyone can think of would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>> If any literature could be sent as an attachment or if I could
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> website to go to it would be most helpful.  I need the info by
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> this week, please.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thank you in advance.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dacia Luck
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide
>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide
>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>>>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Feb  4 16:43:08 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:43:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100204164308.32035.29298@web1.serotek.com>

Well, when it comes to SEROTEK products, they include a remote training 
and support system where other users can access your computer remotely 
(only with your permission) and help you learn or troubleshoot any 
time. Also, SEROTEK often does technology talks meant to demonstrate 
their products and the products of other companies, but the additional 
benefit is that you get some training while you listen. And really, you 
won't find better tech support anywhere. So to answer your question, 
the traing is peer powered, and the technology itself is easy to learn 
so you don't spend forever training.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> I am not a conservative politically, but I am a pragmatist.  As you say in
> this message, the more expensive products like Jaws and Window eyes may have
> some advantages that make  these screen readers easier to use or more
> efficient than the cheaper versions.  With time, we can hope  to encourage
> work towards universal design, as many have mentioned in this discussion.
> Just one quick classic  example of universal design  may be the Prodigy
> blood glucose meter, which costs under forty dollars and which the NFB has
> praised as the best product for a blind diabetic to use.   The Prodigy came
> out as a new product about four years ago.Before the prodigy,  a large
> number of blind diabetics were using  a special adaptive product called
> "Voice Mates" by Accucheck, it was the only talking meter  that was very
> feasible to use without vision for some time.  Yet this specialized  Voice
> Mates device cost over five hundred dollars and does not have the same ease
> of use as the cheaper Prodigy.  Yet the Prodigy was designed and
> manufactured for the mass, say sighted market. But it was seen as a
> desireable feature for the sighted to hear their blood sugar read out loud.
> Now of course, the market for diabetic devices is far  from a small niche
> market, since America has now in excess of sixteen million diabetics.  My
> point is that even though we  as consumers of blindness products are a small
> market, we can work to encourage universal designs and utilize alternative
> products such as Seroteck.    But I feel this  is a long term strategy, and
> waiting for the great day may leave many blind people without the assistive
> technology they need for months and years.  It sometimes eludes sighted
> people what a necessity what we may call a talking computer system is.  It
> simply gives one access to a quality of life impossible without assistive
> technology.  It seems to me in the short run, a strategy we might use is to
> find non govermental money  from charitable organizations or philanthropists
> to buy existing technology such as Pac Mates or Braille Notes for our
> consumers, while we are  working  for changes in the pricing structure or
> the marketplace to bring down costs for blindness gear over a time.    I
> think this could be done on perhaps a cost sharing basis, with someone
> always bearing a part of the cost of his or her equipment.   I would like to
> see the costs of training and repair also be considered In another post,
> someone details the many marvelous things available through Seroteck.  But
> if you have been out of the loop about technology because you could not
> afford it, who will teach or tune you in to this stuff?  Peer help should
> maybe be organized, or affordable training subsidized, this is just a
> thought..  In my case, I do have funding from the Department of Rehab in
> california and I have received many helpful pieces of adaptive equipment,
> not without a struggle at times, and been denied for many things.I also am
> lucky to be able, at least currently to pay out of pocket for some things
> myself. Next week, someone will be coming to my home to repair my Open Book,
> which just has some mysterious glitch all of a sudden.  It will cost the
> state agency or DOR one hundred and sixty dollars for two hours of  repair
> of my equipment.  This would be steep for many to pay themselves.  It seems
> people can be in a catch 22 situation, they need technology to get ahead,
> but they cannot afford technology.  But like Jo Orozco asks , what are the
> dimensions of the need we have out  there? Would it be embarrassing for an
> individual to write in to this list to say he or she is not able to afford
> technology or training?  What of someone who has a case closed for whatever
> reason, can such a person come forward and ask for help without feeling
> humiliated?  I throw out all this since I know this is a highly intelligent,
> creative list and solutions can be found  probably if we work together..   I
> am not a business major, alas, but this change in the marketplace may take
> some time, I could be wrong.  So  in the meantime why not tap into
> charitable foundations that could buy current popular technology for  blind
> individuals such as Jaws, Window Eyes, Pac mate, Braille Note, Open Book,
> and so on.  One advantage of these familiar products is that one is more
> likely to find peers who can help them learn  or trouble shoot this
> technology.  I can easily contact many people, or at least I think I could,
> who are Window Eyes users if I need help, since this screen reader has a
> large user base.    Having non profits or private charitable foundations
> help could be done on a  cost sharing basis perhaps, with someone always
> paying in part for  his or her equipment.  I have thought that non
> governmental money from non profit organizations or donations from  large
> corporations would liberate some from the  sometimes daunting Voc Rehab
> bureaucracy.  What about approaching such entities as the Bill and Melinda
> Gates Foundation?  Or even someone like Dan Googin? There also may be grants
> available from  certain agencies in the public or private sectorI am not
> aware of; although I  am planning to  read up on grant writing..  Forgive me
> for my brainstorming  style here, these are just some preliminary thoughts.
> And again, this  issue is complex, and I am so glad we are discusssing this.
> I would be happy to work on any campaign  that develops.  Best regards,
> GinnieOriginal Message -----
> From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>> Apple is really the leader in built in accessibility, and yes, I think
>> that is the only way we're going to see a decrease in what we pay to use
>> technology. If mainstream devices start coming with built in accessibility
>> features, that would be a preferable solution. To answer your question, if
>> a huge company like Freedom Scientific has 80 percent of the market share,
>> and people are paying $800 for their screen reader...why would they lower
>> their price? They may eventually go to a payment plan, but they really
>> have no incentive business wise to do so. Blind people may be pissed at
>> how much things cost...but at the end of the day, the companies still get
>> the money. If we want a change, we'll have to stop using their products.
>> The rub is that they're good products, and probably in many ways more
>> efficient than the cheaper options.

>> Just some thoughts,
>> Briley
>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Aziza wrote:

>>> My question, and I hope this makes sense... is:
>>> If these things, like screen reading software, and such is becoming a
>>> standard necessity for blind people, why hasn't the price gone down? I
>>> mean, that's normally what happens with technology right? New stuff is
>>> really expensive, but overtime as it becomes used by a large amount of
>>> people the price goes down. So, if their is a specific population of
>>> people using this stuff, why hasn't the price decreased?

>>> Also, does anyone know if the tech manifactures have considred taking a
>>> look at assistive tech and trying to make built in features on their
>>> general pieces of technology? Like, a computer with built in screen
>>> reader capabilitys, but one that actually works well enough so that we
>>> don't need to go and buy a separate one. If it was standard and included
>>> wouldn't it cost less?

>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software comparable
>>>> to JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a
>>>> donation of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This
>>>> would solve the problem without having to rely on government.

>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply
>>>>> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a
>>>>> dangerous door to expect the government to limit how much things can
>>>>> cost? At the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't exist
>>>>> as charities, they are businesses just like any other, except for the
>>>>> fact that they are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is
>>>>> horrible that they exploit our need for these products to make a buck?
>>>>> Of course. Isn't that capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any
>>>>> stretch of the imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion on
>>>>> this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the argument.

>>>>> Briley
>>>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:

>>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it
>>>>>> without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in
>>>>>> high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that
>>>>>> companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying
>>>>>> $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is
>>>>>> ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with
>>>>>> mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more
>>>>>> than willing to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS
>>>>>> Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>>>>>>> Dear list,

>>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance
>>>>>>> from your
>>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance
>>>>>>> after you
>>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>>> settle
>>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>>>>>>> afford
>>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>>>>>>> attention to
>>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.
>>>>>>> Yet, it
>>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a
>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
>>>>>>> par
>>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.

>>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

>>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,

>>>>>>> Joe Orozco

>>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado


>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________

>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com



>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu


>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com


>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com


>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com


>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.net


> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From winy_kwany at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  4 17:30:13 2010
From: winy_kwany at yahoo.com (Winy Kwany)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:30:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with DVD project
Message-ID: <533275.68838.qm@web62406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi all,
I need inputs, ideas and suggestions. We are asked to do DVD reviews for Music History subject. For instance, we are now studying Baroque music and there is a DVD entitled "Tamerlino" by Handel. We are asked to write every detail that we can see and listen. I am totally blind, so what I can get from watching a DVD is very limited than what my sighted friend gets. We have tried to work together as best as we can. She is willing to tell me info that we need such as title, composer, conductor, story line, etc, but that's all that she can do. The opera is not sung or spoken in English. For sighted people, it is not a problem since they can read the English translation on the screan, but for me, it's really a problem. It's impossible for me to expect her to read everything. The DVD is 90-120 minutes long, and we have to finish watching it in one week. It's difficult to find time to watch it together because of different schedule, and if we do find time,
 again, not realistic to expect her to read everything.
Would you give me any tips, suggestions, and things that I can do to deal better with this? I will have this DVD's project from this semester onwards, from Baroque to 20th century music. We will watch many things, especially opera. Any suggestions?
Any help will highly apreciated. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Many thanks.
Winy.


      


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:55:59 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:55:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Price Tag Preliminary Conclusions
Message-ID: <07453315EFA64048B1EDBB04C2388835@Rufus>

Dear all,

I've collected a decent sample of people's thoughts concerning the steep
prices of adaptive technology.  It is by no means conclusive but at least
provides a sense of where people stand on the issue across several
list-serves.

On the one hand there are people who agree that the prices associated with
adaptive technology are too high.  Mainstream products offer better capacity
and functionality at a fraction of those products sold by adaptive
developers.  Despite new releases, members of this camp have also pointed
out that the general functionality of these products have not changed.
People need this technology to be able to carry out their jobs in the
workplace and should not have to invest thousands of dollars to be able to
take advantage of this technology.

There is a second camp that believes the solution will be found in universal
design.  The blind population is a small niche market; therefore, we cannot
hold adaptive companies accountable for trying to make a profit.  The best
option is to convince mainstream developers to incorporate accessible
designs into their products so that the price of adaptive technology can
decrease.

The third and smallest camp argues that adaptive technology is expensive to
design but well worth the price.  People should be able to invest in their
own technology for maximum independence.  If sighted people can make large
investments in vehicles and other high-ticket expenses, so should the blind.

The only common factor that all three groups appear to agree upon is a
payment plan that would at least give consumers the ability to slowly pay
off the cost of adaptive products.

Only in a perfect world will we find a plan that satisfies everyone's
opinions.  Yet, for a campaign to do something as significant as to
encourage a change in sales tactics across several major companies, we need
to try to be as united in our resolve to make it work, and this is assuming
that a campaign is something people are interested in working hard to keep
alive.  I think we can bring about a satisfactory change in the status quo
that could keep consumers and companies on the same page.  I'm willing to
put my resources to work on the issue and only wonder if anyone else would
step forward to lend a hand.

If you're interested, please e-mail me at:

jsorozco at gmail.com

Let's see what we can do to help people that need technology get the
technology.   This is one area where people should not be left behind
because they could not afford to stay caught up.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4835 (20100204) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:58:47 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:58:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Price Tag Preliminary Conclusions
Message-ID: <D9E929C8693B4976A8AE8C77C1592E6E@Rufus>

Dear all,

I've collected a decent sample of people's thoughts concerning the steep
prices of adaptive technology.  It is by no means conclusive but at least
provides a sense of where people stand on the issue across several
list-serves.

On the one hand there are people who agree that the prices associated with
adaptive technology are too high.  Mainstream products offer better capacity
and functionality at a fraction of those products sold by adaptive
developers.  Despite new releases, members of this camp have also pointed
out that the general functionality of these products have not changed.
People need this technology to be able to carry out their jobs in the
workplace and should not have to invest thousands of dollars to be able to
take advantage of this technology.

There is a second camp that believes the solution will be found in universal
design.  The blind population is a small niche market; therefore, we cannot
hold adaptive companies accountable for trying to make a profit.  The best
option is to convince mainstream developers to incorporate accessible
designs into their products so that the price of adaptive technology can
decrease.

The third and smallest camp argues that adaptive technology is expensive to
design but well worth the price.  People should be able to invest in their
own technology for maximum independence.  If sighted people can make large
investments in vehicles and other high-ticket expenses, so should the blind.

The only common factor that all three groups appear to agree upon is a
payment plan that would at least give consumers the ability to slowly pay
off the cost of adaptive products.

Only in a perfect world will we find a plan that satisfies everyone's
opinions.  Yet, for a campaign to do something as significant as to
encourage a change in sales tactics across several major companies, we need
to try to be as united in our resolve to make it work, and this is assuming
that a campaign is something people are interested in working hard to keep
alive.  I think we can bring about a satisfactory change in the status quo
that could keep consumers and companies on the same page.  I'm willing to
put my resources to work on the issue and only wonder if anyone else would
step forward to lend a hand.

If you're interested, please e-mail me at:

jsorozco at gmail.com

Let's see what we can do to help people that need technology get the
technology.   This is one area where people should not be left behind
because they could not afford to stay caught up.

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4835 (20100204) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:59:08 2010
From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:59:08 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with DVD project
References: <533275.68838.qm@web62406.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A3F5AD3FFBC1403B8CE0E8F908C7A3ED@wind>

Hello Winy,

You might want to consider working with your professor to come up with a 
more accessible project that would achieve similar results and a learning 
opportunity equal to that offered to your sighted peers.

Another idea is to do some research to see if a transcript for the 
sub-titles might exist online.

Again, you might want to consider consulting your professor for additional 
ideas.

Regards,

Darrell Shandrow
Returning home from Washington Seminar!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Winy Kwany" <winy_kwany at yahoo.com>
To: <menvi-discuss at menvi.org>; <braillem at topica.com>; 
<blind-musicians at yahoogroups.com>; <braille-music-chat at yahoogroups.com>; 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <musictlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:30 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Dealing with DVD project


> Hi all,
> I need inputs, ideas and suggestions. We are asked to do DVD reviews for 
> Music History subject. For instance, we are now studying Baroque music and 
> there is a DVD entitled "Tamerlino" by Handel. We are asked to write every 
> detail that we can see and listen. I am totally blind, so what I can get 
> from watching a DVD is very limited than what my sighted friend gets. We 
> have tried to work together as best as we can. She is willing to tell me 
> info that we need such as title, composer, conductor, story line, etc, but 
> that's all that she can do. The opera is not sung or spoken in English. 
> For sighted people, it is not a problem since they can read the English 
> translation on the screan, but for me, it's really a problem. It's 
> impossible for me to expect her to read everything. The DVD is 90-120 
> minutes long, and we have to finish watching it in one week. It's 
> difficult to find time to watch it together because of different schedule, 
> and if we do find time,
> again, not realistic to expect her to read everything.
> Would you give me any tips, suggestions, and things that I can do to deal 
> better with this? I will have this DVD's project from this semester 
> onwards, from Baroque to 20th century music. We will watch many things, 
> especially opera. Any suggestions?
> Any help will highly apreciated. I look forward to hearing from you soon. 
> Many thanks.
> Winy.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com
> 



From dlawless86 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:06:10 2010
From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:06:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <20100204164308.32035.29298@web1.serotek.com>
References: <20100204164308.32035.29298@web1.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <423e6e461002041206t547e0398w125bbd43a8f3c292@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,
I think your  idea regarding the non profit organizations taking the
brunt of the cost for development of AT products has some merit. It is
slightly unrealistic  though because without  charging some kind of
fee there won't be any money to use for research and development. I
agree that the fees A T companies charge us  are exorbitant but I
think finding  a middle ground between  no cost and  charging us an
arm and a leg for products is a better solution. If you drop the price
entirely then you lose the stability of the product because companies
have no resources or desire to develop it further.

Domonique

On 2/4/10, Jedi <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Well, when it comes to SEROTEK products, they include a remote training
> and support system where other users can access your computer remotely
> (only with your permission) and help you learn or troubleshoot any
> time. Also, SEROTEK often does technology talks meant to demonstrate
> their products and the products of other companies, but the additional
> benefit is that you get some training while you listen. And really, you
> won't find better tech support anywhere. So to answer your question,
> the traing is peer powered, and the technology itself is easy to learn
> so you don't spend forever training.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
>
> Original message:
>> I am not a conservative politically, but I am a pragmatist.  As you say in
>> this message, the more expensive products like Jaws and Window eyes may
>> have
>> some advantages that make  these screen readers easier to use or more
>> efficient than the cheaper versions.  With time, we can hope  to encourage
>> work towards universal design, as many have mentioned in this discussion.
>> Just one quick classic  example of universal design  may be the Prodigy
>> blood glucose meter, which costs under forty dollars and which the NFB has
>> praised as the best product for a blind diabetic to use.   The Prodigy
>> came
>> out as a new product about four years ago.Before the prodigy,  a large
>> number of blind diabetics were using  a special adaptive product called
>> "Voice Mates" by Accucheck, it was the only talking meter  that was very
>> feasible to use without vision for some time.  Yet this specialized  Voice
>> Mates device cost over five hundred dollars and does not have the same
>> ease
>> of use as the cheaper Prodigy.  Yet the Prodigy was designed and
>> manufactured for the mass, say sighted market. But it was seen as a
>> desireable feature for the sighted to hear their blood sugar read out
>> loud.
>> Now of course, the market for diabetic devices is far  from a small niche
>> market, since America has now in excess of sixteen million diabetics.  My
>> point is that even though we  as consumers of blindness products are a
>> small
>> market, we can work to encourage universal designs and utilize alternative
>> products such as Seroteck.    But I feel this  is a long term strategy,
>> and
>> waiting for the great day may leave many blind people without the
>> assistive
>> technology they need for months and years.  It sometimes eludes sighted
>> people what a necessity what we may call a talking computer system is.  It
>> simply gives one access to a quality of life impossible without assistive
>> technology.  It seems to me in the short run, a strategy we might use is
>> to
>> find non govermental money  from charitable organizations or
>> philanthropists
>> to buy existing technology such as Pac Mates or Braille Notes for our
>> consumers, while we are  working  for changes in the pricing structure or
>> the marketplace to bring down costs for blindness gear over a time.    I
>> think this could be done on perhaps a cost sharing basis, with someone
>> always bearing a part of the cost of his or her equipment.   I would like
>> to
>> see the costs of training and repair also be considered In another post,
>> someone details the many marvelous things available through Seroteck.  But
>> if you have been out of the loop about technology because you could not
>> afford it, who will teach or tune you in to this stuff?  Peer help should
>> maybe be organized, or affordable training subsidized, this is just a
>> thought..  In my case, I do have funding from the Department of Rehab in
>> california and I have received many helpful pieces of adaptive equipment,
>> not without a struggle at times, and been denied for many things.I also am
>> lucky to be able, at least currently to pay out of pocket for some things
>> myself. Next week, someone will be coming to my home to repair my Open
>> Book,
>> which just has some mysterious glitch all of a sudden.  It will cost the
>> state agency or DOR one hundred and sixty dollars for two hours of  repair
>> of my equipment.  This would be steep for many to pay themselves.  It
>> seems
>> people can be in a catch 22 situation, they need technology to get ahead,
>> but they cannot afford technology.  But like Jo Orozco asks , what are the
>> dimensions of the need we have out  there? Would it be embarrassing for an
>> individual to write in to this list to say he or she is not able to afford
>> technology or training?  What of someone who has a case closed for
>> whatever
>> reason, can such a person come forward and ask for help without feeling
>> humiliated?  I throw out all this since I know this is a highly
>> intelligent,
>> creative list and solutions can be found  probably if we work together..
>> I
>> am not a business major, alas, but this change in the marketplace may take
>> some time, I could be wrong.  So  in the meantime why not tap into
>> charitable foundations that could buy current popular technology for
>> blind
>> individuals such as Jaws, Window Eyes, Pac mate, Braille Note, Open Book,
>> and so on.  One advantage of these familiar products is that one is more
>> likely to find peers who can help them learn  or trouble shoot this
>> technology.  I can easily contact many people, or at least I think I
>> could,
>> who are Window Eyes users if I need help, since this screen reader has a
>> large user base.    Having non profits or private charitable foundations
>> help could be done on a  cost sharing basis perhaps, with someone always
>> paying in part for  his or her equipment.  I have thought that non
>> governmental money from non profit organizations or donations from  large
>> corporations would liberate some from the  sometimes daunting Voc Rehab
>> bureaucracy.  What about approaching such entities as the Bill and Melinda
>> Gates Foundation?  Or even someone like Dan Googin? There also may be
>> grants
>> available from  certain agencies in the public or private sectorI am not
>> aware of; although I  am planning to  read up on grant writing..  Forgive
>> me
>> for my brainstorming  style here, these are just some preliminary
>> thoughts.
>> And again, this  issue is complex, and I am so glad we are discusssing
>> this.
>> I would be happy to work on any campaign  that develops.  Best regards,
>> GinnieOriginal Message -----
>> From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>> Apple is really the leader in built in accessibility, and yes, I think
>>> that is the only way we're going to see a decrease in what we pay to use
>>> technology. If mainstream devices start coming with built in
>>> accessibility
>>> features, that would be a preferable solution. To answer your question,
>>> if
>>> a huge company like Freedom Scientific has 80 percent of the market
>>> share,
>>> and people are paying $800 for their screen reader...why would they lower
>>> their price? They may eventually go to a payment plan, but they really
>>> have no incentive business wise to do so. Blind people may be pissed at
>>> how much things cost...but at the end of the day, the companies still get
>>> the money. If we want a change, we'll have to stop using their products.
>>> The rub is that they're good products, and probably in many ways more
>>> efficient than the cheaper options.
>
>>> Just some thoughts,
>>> Briley
>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 9:45 PM, Aziza wrote:
>
>>>> My question, and I hope this makes sense... is:
>>>> If these things, like screen reading software, and such is becoming a
>>>> standard necessity for blind people, why hasn't the price gone down? I
>>>> mean, that's normally what happens with technology right? New stuff is
>>>> really expensive, but overtime as it becomes used by a large amount of
>>>> people the price goes down. So, if their is a specific population of
>>>> people using this stuff, why hasn't the price decreased?
>
>>>> Also, does anyone know if the tech manifactures have considred taking a
>>>> look at assistive tech and trying to make built in features on their
>>>> general pieces of technology? Like, a computer with built in screen
>>>> reader capabilitys, but one that actually works well enough so that we
>>>> don't need to go and buy a separate one. If it was standard and included
>>>> wouldn't it cost less?
>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>> If there was a nonprofit company out there that made software
>>>>> comparable
>>>>> to JFW it could solve the problem. This company would only request a
>>>>> donation of whatever you can afford for the use of there software. This
>>>>> would solve the problem without having to rely on government.
>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" <brileyp at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 6:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>>> It is a difficult question. While I agree that paying so much simply
>>>>>> because I happen to be blind is ridiculous, isn't it opening a
>>>>>> dangerous door to expect the government to limit how much things can
>>>>>> cost? At the end of the day, assistive technology companies don't
>>>>>> exist
>>>>>> as charities, they are businesses just like any other, except for the
>>>>>> fact that they are selling to a small niche market. Do I think it is
>>>>>> horrible that they exploit our need for these products to make a buck?
>>>>>> Of course. Isn't that capitalism though? I'm no conservative by any
>>>>>> stretch of the imagination, and I honestly don't have a firm opinion
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> this subject. But I thought I'd raise this aspect of the argument.
>
>>>>>> Briley
>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>>>>>>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it
>>>>>>> without assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> high school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that
>>>>>>> companies can charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying
>>>>>>> $6,200 or thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is
>>>>>>> ludicrous. Especially when this device may not be compatible with
>>>>>>> mainstream software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more
>>>>>>> than willing to assist you in any way possible.
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>>>>>>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS
>>>>>>> Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>>>>>>>> Dear list,
>
>>>>>>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>>>>>>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance
>>>>>>>> from your
>>>>>>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance
>>>>>>>> after you
>>>>>>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense
>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>>>>>>>> settle
>>>>>>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot
>>>>>>>> afford
>>>>>>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>>>>>>>> attention to
>>>>>>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>>>>>>> myself.
>>>>>>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging
>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>>>>>>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.
>>>>>>>> Yet, it
>>>>>>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>>>>>>> contracts
>>>>>>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a
>>>>>>>> device
>>>>>>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> par
>>>>>>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>>>>>>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>>>>>>>> Looking forward to your input,
>
>>>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>>>>>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
>>>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>>>>> signature
>>>>>>>> database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
>>>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>>>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu
>
>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com
>
>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ginisd%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 20:21:51 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:21:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook
Message-ID: <5EEF166543EF4055A5EC5391BB73E7FD@Rufus>

Hello,

Over the past couple days I have engaged a discussion on several lists
concerning the price of adaptive technology.  There are varying views on
whether or not these prices are fair, and there appears to be interest in
creating a campaign to address the issue.  If you are interested in lending
your views or your support, please e-mail me at the address below.  This
would be preferable to a prolonged discussion across multiple lists.  Please
e-mail anyone you feel would be interested in participating, and please
especially help us find representatives from the leading adaptive technology
companies.  We are not interested in creating a landscape of corporations
versus consumers.  At this time there is no evidence suggesting adaptive
technology companies are not willing to discuss our concerns, and
preliminary feedback on the issue mostly agrees that we should find a plan
that takes into account the real cost of production and the impact to a
consumer's personal finances.  We do not know if the answer lies in lower
prices, payment plans or philanthropic programs to help offset the cost of
this technology, but we will not find answers if we do not hear from you.

If you are interested in participating in a working group, please e-mail me
at:

jsorozco at gmail.com

Thank you in advance,

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4836 (20100204) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Thu Feb  4 20:38:37 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 15:38:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
Message-ID: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>

Hi:

To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my friends put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I went into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had been put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody know how to correct this?

Thanks,
Serena

From jsorozco at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 21:24:01 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:24:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook publishers heading to iPad
Message-ID: <9AD885015FC34D6EB3D13EF03F17CEE0@Rufus>

Subject: Textbook publishers heading to iPad


 

Textbook publishers heading to iPad

Major publishers sign deal with ScrollMotion to adapt their textbooks and
study guides for Apple's iPad, iPhone, and iPod Touch.

Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10446865-37.html?part=rss
<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10446865-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2
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Apple <http://news.cnet.com/apple/>   
February 3, 2010 11:37 AM PST 

Textbook publishers heading to iPad

by Lance Whitney <http://www.cnet.com/profile/lancewhitney/>  

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Publishers aren't wasting any time getting their books onto the new iPad.

  <http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20100203/hero_20100127_270x326.png>
(Credit: Apple <http://www.apple.com> ) 

Publishers Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, Kaplan Publishing, McGraw-Hill
Education, and Pearson have signed deals to be among the first to port their
textbooks over to Apple's new tablet. Heading to the iPad as well as the
iPhone  <http://www.cnet.com/apple-iphone.html> and iPod Touch
<http://www.cnet.com/ipod/>  will be their textbooks, study guides, and test
prep manuals.

Announced on Wednesday, the agreements were made with ScrollMotion, a
company that develops the iPhone e-reader app Iceberg Reader and works with
publishers to digitize their books for the mobile market. 

The digital textbooks promise a slew of options to take advantage of the
medium, according to ScrollMotion. Students can mark text in any of six
different colors to visually categorize each highlight. They can write notes
or use the microphone built into the iPad and iPhone to record audio notes.

Students can also search for text by subject, topic, and other criteria. The
digital books are even capable of playing quick videos to accompany the
content. Finally, students can take interactive quizzes and track their
right and wrong answers on the device.

Even before Apple chief Steve Jobs touted the iPad
<http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10444360-82.html>  as the ultimate
e-book reader, publishers were eager to hop on board.

At an earnings conference call the day before the iPad launch last week,
McGraw Hill CEO Terry McGraw dangled
<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10444004-37.html> remarks about his
company's college textbooks potentially running on an Apple tablet. The
publisher's CourseSmart textbook line is already available as an iPhone and
iPod Touch app. McGraw seemed confident that the same content now on the
iPhone could run out of the box on a tablet device.

Debate has surfaced as to whether the iPad could push other e-book readers
out of the marketplace or at least make a dent in their sales. The iPad has
a couple of potential drawbacks. Its LCD screen is seen as less friendly on
the eyes than the e-ink used in dedicated readers like the Kindle. And for
consumers only interested in reading books, the iPad's starting price of
$499 could be hard to swallow compared to the lower cost of most standalone
e-book readers.

  <http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bn/mugs/blog_lance_whitney_60x60.png> Lance
Whitney wears a few different technology hats--journalist, Web developer,
and software trainer. He's a contributing editor for Microsoft TechNet
Magazine and writes for other computer publications and Web sites. You can
follow Lance on Twitter at @lancewhit <http://www.twitter.com/lancewhit> .
Lance is a member of the CNET Blog Network, and he is not an employee of
CNET. 

Topics: 



iPhone <http://news.cnet.com/apple/iphone/> , 




iPod <http://news.cnet.com/apple/ipod/> , 




iPad <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?categoryId=10442813> 


Tags: 



iPad <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=iPad> ,




e-books <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=e-books> ,




e-book  <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=e-book+readers>
readers,




iPhone <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=iPhone> ,




iPod  <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=iPod+Touch> Touch,




Apple <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=Apple> ,




textbooks <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=textbooks> ,




ScrollMotion
<http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=ScrollMotion> 


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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 22:31:47 2010
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:31:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] jaws 11, excel 2007, and pivot tables
Message-ID: <3fea3c411002041431y5e5fca0dxb529c8327e43a3b@mail.gmail.com>

Are pivot tables accessible with jaws? I tried using the pivot tables
but could not navigate the drop boxes to move column titles into the
spreadsheet and compute math nor could i switch between the table and
the new spreadsheet as well as go back to the original worksheet.

I am figuring that i can do most things using formulas, but what about
data with two or more layers such as figuring how many females drink
alcohol? Is the only thing i can do is separate the data first, or is
there an easier accessible way?

Thanks

Cindy


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Feb  5 00:51:34 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 16:51:34 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Searching for Carriage Returns?
Message-ID: <F813CAFAA7D44F2CA96D93ECC6A0D1F6@stanford.edu>

Does anyone know if it is possible to find and replace carriage returns in MS Word?

Nicole

From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 02:58:17 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 21:58:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
In-Reply-To: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
seems to me.
Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
have my siblings/family on my profile too.

Kerri

On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi:
>
> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my friends
> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I went
> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had been
> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody know how
> to correct this?
>
> Thanks,
> Serena
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 19:50:25 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 14:50:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: A Personal Assistant on Your iPhone
Message-ID: <0655ED1088C04B298D7A0CEEB5447795@Rufus>

Subject: A Personal Assistant on Your iPhone



A Personal Assistant on Your iPhone

A start-up called Siri says it combines "speech recognition with a brain" in
its new virtual personal assistant for the iPhone. The application is
designed to perform simple tasks such as booking restaurant reservations.

Source:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/a-personal-assistant-on-your-iphone
/

Comment:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/a-personal-assistant-on-your-iphone
/#comments

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February 5, 2010, 12:00 am 

A Personal Assistant on Your iPhone

By JENNA  <http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/author/jenna-wortham/> WORTHAM

The pop-culture record shows that most artificially intelligent assistants
don't work out too well for their human masters.

There's the comically co-dependent - and largely unhelpful - duo from Star
Wars, C-3PO and R2-D2. And who could forget HAL 9000, the glowing red orb
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to your pocket - more specifically, to your Apple iPhone. 

Various riffs on the virtual personal assistant concept have been around for
while. Remember the Milk <http://www.rememberthemilk.com/>  and Jott
<http://jott.com/> are examples of electronic crutches intended to help
users be more efficient and complete tasks. And during the dot-com era,
there was a great deal of hype about a coming generation of digital "agents"
that were supposed to go out and perform various tasks for people on the
Web. 

But where Siri breaks away from the pack, says Dag Kittlaus, co-founder and
chief executive of the company, is that it is "speech recognition with a
brain." 

"This is the first version of a computer assistance that understands
language, has the ability to delegate tasks and learn," Mr. Kittlaus said. 

First, users speak a command, like, "Find a table for two at 9 tonight,"
"Get two tickets to 'Crazy Heart' at 8," "Send a taxi to my house," or even
"What kid-friendly events are going on in New York this weekend?" Using
G.P.S. and speech-recognition technology powered by Nuance, the application
translates the spoken command and uses a set of algorithms to search for the
answer. 

Mr. Kittlaus describes the application as the "mother of mash-ups" because
the company has partnered with several companies, including OpenTable,
MovieTickets, StubHub, CitySearch and TaxiMagic, to generate results. 

Siri is a "do engine rather than a search engine," Mr. Kittlaus said. 

Siri, which was founded in 2007, was incubated in the Stanford Research
Institute, as part of a DARPA
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/d/defense
_advanced_research_projects_agency/index.html?inline=nyt-org> -financed
artificial intelligence project called CALO <http://caloproject.sri.com/> ,
or Cognitive Agent that Learns and Organizes. As a result, Mr. Kittlaus
said, Siri will learn more about its user and tailor its results based on
preferences over time. 

Currently, the application is available free for download. 

"This is intended for everyone to help in their menial tasks," Mr. Kittlaus
said, "not just for someone in a corner office."

To make money, the company says it receives a small fee from any monetary
transactions, like purchasing movie tickets, that are conducted through
Siri.

Recently, the company closed a $15.5 million Series B round of venture
financing, led by Li Ka-Shing, a Chinese billionaire who has also invested
in Facebook
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/facebook_inc/index.ht
ml?inline=nyt-org>  and the music streaming service Spotify. Previously, the
company raised $8.5 million from Menlo Ventures and Morgenthaler Ventures. 

Currently, Siri is available only for the iPhone, but the company intends to
also offer versions compatible with Android phones and BlackBerrys. 

The company also hopes to introduce features that will allow users to send
requests to Siri via e-mail and instant message.

*	

	           
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ack-friday-shopping/> to Help Navigate Black Friday Sales

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What We're Reading


blog.facebook.com


Facebook: Six Years  <http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=287542162130>
of Making Connections


Mark Zuckerberg marks Facebook's sixth birthday and says the site is now 400
million members strong. - Brad Stone
<http://www.publish2.com/journalists/brad-stone>  


businessweek.com


Addressing
<http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2010/tc2010023_986637.htm
> the Dearth of Female Entrepreneurs


One researcher examines why there so few women running high-tech businesses.
- Jenna Wortham <http://www.publish2.com/journalists/jenna-wortham>  


mediapost.com


Google
<http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=1218
21> Patent Filings Shed Light On Future Of Internet And Online Advertising


Hints of Google's advertising strategy emerge from patents. - Vindu Goel
<http://www.publish2.com/journalists/vindu-goel>  


usatoday.com


Hulu  <http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2010-02-03-hulu03_ST_N.htm>
explores premium pricing


Will fans still love Hulu if it's not free? - Jenna Wortham
<http://www.publish2.com/journalists/jenna-wortham>  

*	See more of  <http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/what-were-reading/> what
we're reading > |
<http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/global/icons/feed_icon_8x8.gif> Feed
<http://www.publish2.com/newsgroups/nyt-technology-journalists/rss/> 


On the Blogs


*	Gadgetwise <javascript:void(0);> 
*	Media Decoder <javascript:void(0);> 
*	Green Inc. <javascript:void(0);> 
*	Bay Area <javascript:void(0);>  


The
<http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/the-first-wave-of-ipad-gadge
ts/> First Wave of iPad Gadgets


Apple has a new device, which can mean, among other things, one certain
thing: a brand new bunch of accessories for it. 


New
<http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/nda-feb-3-1-am-new-olympus-p
en-e-pl1-targets-everyday-users/> Olympus PEN E-PL1 Is Aimed at Everyday
Users


Olympus has announced a new slick-looking PEN Micro Four Thirds camera that
is easy to use and priced at $600. 


App
<http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/we-have-all-long-known-how-t
/> of the Week: Free Calls, if You Don't Mind Ads


iCall lets you make free calls from your iPhone. 


Is
<http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/is-the-ipad-a-kids-best-frie
nd/> the iPad a Child's Best Friend?


Why Apple may have created the ultimate plaything for kids. 


AT
<http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/att-apple-allow-cheap-calls-
on-3g-data-network/> &T and Apple Allow Cheap VoIP Calls on 3G


The first VoIP product running on the iPhone is iCall, a free app that lets
you make free calls to the United States and Canada if you listen to an ad
and limit calls to five minutes. 


Behind
<http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/behind-the-scenes-at-crazy
-heart-a-saga-worthy-of-its-own-country-song/> the Scenes at 'Crazy Heart,'
a Saga Worthy of Its Own Country Song


Behind the scenes at "Crazy Heart," a saga worthy of its own country song. 


Speed
<http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/speed-read-for-friday-feb-
5/> Read for Friday, Feb. 5


Speed Read for Friday, Feb. 5 


Fox
<http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/fox-files-more-suits-again
st-alleged-dvd-pirates/> Files More Suits Claiming DVD Piracy


Fox has filed suit against dozens more people it claims sold illegally
downloaded versions of some of its films. 


On
<http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/buy-buttons-still-turned-o
ff-on-amazon-for-some-macmillan-titles/> Amazon, Buy Buttons Still Off for
Some Macmillan Titles


Despite saying Sunday that it was capitulating to Macmillan publishers in a
dispute over ebook pricing, Amazon has still not turned back on the "buy"
buttons for some Macmillan titles. 


New
<http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/new-york-observer-to-help-
create-las-vegas-weekly/> York Observer to Help Create Las Vegas Weekly


Observer Media Group will join forces with Wendoh Media, a Las Vegas-based
publisher, to create Vegas Seven, a free newspaper about life in that city. 


Anticipating
<http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/anticipating-federal-rules-new
-power-plant-requests-carbon-dioxide-limits/> Federal Rules, New Power Plant
Requests Carbon Dioxide Limits


A Texas company that builds power plants around the country said Thursday
that it had been granted a federal permit for a new plant near San Francisco
that, at its own request, sets a limit for carbon dioxide output. 


Hackers
<http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/hackers-hit-europes-carbon-mar
ket/> Hit Europe's Carbon Market


German authorities say fraudsters probably made money from gaining access to
national registry of carbon credits. 


Britain
<http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/britain-mulls-energy-market-re
forms/> Mulls Energy Market Reforms


The British Office of Gas and Electricity Markets unveiled a sweeping menu
of proposals aimed at reconciling growing energy demands with the European
Union's renewable energy targets. 


A
<http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/a-boon-in-smaller-distributed-
solar-projects/> Boom in 'Distributed' Solar Projects


Over the past few weeks, some 1,300 megawatts' worth of distributed solar
deals and initiatives have been announced or approved. 


Household
<http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/03/household-pesticide-is-finding
-its-way-into-california-rivers-study-suggests/> Pesticide Is Finding Its
Way Into California Rivers, Study Suggests


California Rivers contain toxins found in a commonly used home pesticide,
according to study published in Environmental Science and Technology. 


Are
<http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/are-you-there-god-its-me-scott/
> You There God? It's Me, Scott


Share International's leader Benjamin Creme says that the next messiah is
already with him. He is the San Francisco Bay Area writer Raj Patel, whose
book The Value of Nothing was a New York Times best-seller. 


Bay
<http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/health-care-for-ex-inmates-and-
other-highlights-from-fridays-bay-area-report/> Area Report Highlights:
Health Care for Ex-Inmates and Vermouth's New Appeal


Two highlights from Friday's Bay Area Report 


San
<http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/san-franciscos-charter-an-obsta
cle-to-muni-budget-fix/> Francisco's Charter an Obstacle to Muni Budget Fix


San Francisco's Municipal Transportation Agency, which already made sweeping
changes to bus routes and cut 80 jobs in December to save $3.2 million,
still faces a mid-year deficit of $16.9 million. 


Take
<http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/take-5-independent-film-childre
ns-performance-and-a-saxophone-quartet/> 5: Independent Films, a Children's
Performance and a Saxophone Quartet


Wondering what to do this weekend? We've got you covered: 


Organic
<http://bayarea.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/a-summit-on-the-future-of-the-d
eli/> or Authentic? The Saul's Deli Debate


Saul's Restaurant and Delicatessen, a Berkeley favorite, finds its migration
to more natural and healthy foods meeting with customer resistance. 


Other Technology Blogs


*	All Things D <http://allthingsd.com/>  

*	AppleInsider <http://appleinsider.com/>  

*	Ars Technica <http://arstechnica.com/>  

*	Boy Genius Report <http://www.boygeniusreport.com/>  

*	CNet News <http://news.cnet.com/>  

*	DigiTimes <http://www.digitimes.com/index.asp>  

*	Digits <http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/>  

*	GigaOm <http://gigaom.com/>  

*	Mashable <http://mashable.com/>  

*	PaidContent <http://paidcontent.org/>  

*	Post Tech <http://voices.washingtonpost.com/posttech/>  

*	ReadWriteWeb <http://www.readwriteweb.com/>  

*	Search Engine Land <http://searchengineland.com/>  

*	Silicon Alley  <http://www.businessinsider.com/alleyinsider> Insider


*	Tech Trader Daily <http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/>  

*	TechCrunch <http://www.techcrunch.com/>  

*	Techdirt <http://www.techdirt.com/>  

*	Techflash <http://www.techflash.com/>  

*	Techmeme <http://techmeme.com/>  

*	The Register <http://www.theregister.co.uk/>  

*	VentureBeat <http://venturebeat.com/>  

*	Wired News <http://www.wired.com/>  


Driven to Distraction


VIDEO


Distracted
<http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/07/18/technology/1194841442782/distract
ed-drivers.html> Drivers


 75 Thumbnail
<http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/18/technology/5879_1_drivedistr
action_75x75.jpg> Most people are aware of the dangers of trying to
multitask while driving, but most continue to do it anyway.


INTERACTIVE FEATURE


Gauging
<http://www.nytimes.com//interactive/2009/07/19/technology/20090719-driving-
game.html> Your Distraction


 75 Thumbnail
<http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/07/19/technology/driving-game-75.j
pg> A game illustrates the potential consequences of distractions like
texting on your driving ability.


RELATED ARTICLES


*	Promoting
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/technology/07distracted.html> the Car
Phone, Despite Risks 

*	High-Tech
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/technology/22distracted.html> Devices
Help Drivers Put Down Phone 

*	Drivers
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/technology/19distracted.html> Dismiss
Risks of Multitasking on the Road 

*	Go
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/technology/series/driven_to_distraction/
index.html> to All Related Coverage > 


About Bits


Bits offers a steady stream of news and analysis on the technology industry
throughout the day from New York Times writers and freelancers. We cover
start-ups <http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/category/start%20ups/> , tech
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Internet, Web start-ups, digital culture, communications, convergence, N.Y.
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February 05
 
<http://community.nytimes.com/comments/bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/a-p
ersonal-assistant-on-your-iphone/> 


A
<http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/05/a-personal-assistant-on-your-iphon
e/> Personal Assistant on Your iPhone


A start-up called Siri says it combines "speech recognition with a brain" in
its new virtual personal assistant for the iPhone. The application is
designed to perform simple tasks such as booking restaurant reservations.

February 04
 
<http://community.nytimes.com/comments/bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/nyc
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New
<http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/nyc-announces-winners-of-local-app
s-contest/> York City Names Winners of Apps Contest


A variation on Yelp for taxis and a high-tech guide to subway entrances took
home top honors in a city contest for apps using municipal data.

February 04
 
<http://community.nytimes.com/comments/bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/mic
rosofts-innovation-versus-dick-brass/> 


Tech
<http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/tech-talk-podcast-navigating-the-s
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This week's Tech Talk podcast examines controlled serendipity, Internet
aggregation and the two major flavors of Microsoft's Windows 7 operating
system for PCs.

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<http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/aol-snags-another-google-exec-to-o
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David Eun, who oversaw Google's relationships with media companies, has
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From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 20:28:50 2010
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:28:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Searching for Carriage Returns
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1265392804.28887.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.21.1265392804.28887.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <A1F23884508C4E68A4130E929F71AAEE@VALUED04C3B21F>

Nicole,

Search for ^p to find any instance where the creator of the document pressed
enter to go to a new line.

Hope it helps,

Sean Whalen



From jsorozco at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 22:04:46 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 17:04:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dominion
Message-ID: <041B88821A0E47B6A5E7C3F6177B0A3D@Rufus>

Hello,

I suppose this will show the nerdy side of me, or confirm it, but if anyone
is interested in playing a completely accessible online RPG strategy game,
you should check out Dominion.  The rounds run for seven weeks at a time,
and a new round is set to start this weekend.  More information is at:

http://www.kamikazegames.com/dominion/

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4839 (20100205) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 23:27:31 2010
From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:27:31 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] California Association of Blind Students Febuary Newsletter
Message-ID: <181A161C5E6149C5A2A4A438ECE8BA35@azizapc>

Hi all,
Please find attached the Febuary issue of the CABS newsletter. Remember, submissions can be made for future newsletters by emailing me off list.
Thank you.
Aziza Cano
California Association of Blind Students, First Vice-President
Channel Islands Chapter, Secretary
Young Energetic Students Supporting Independence, President
www.yessinfb.org
-------------- next part --------------
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Feb  6 02:53:55 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:53:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NAGDU Seven Night Caribbean Cruise
Message-ID: <auto-000138535544@mailfront1.g2host.com>


National Association of Guide Dog Users



7-Night Caribbean Group Cruise



The National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU) has partnered 
with Cheryl Echevarria, a member of NAGDU and Owner of 
Echevarriatravel.com, to sponsor a 7-day Caribbean Cruise for the 
benefit of NAGDU. For every person booking passage on this cruise, 
$25 will be donated to the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
with a matching contribution of $25 from Echevarriatravel.com



The National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU) is a special 
interest Division of the National Federation of the Blind for people 
who currently use guide dogs as mobility tools, those considering 
getting a guide dog, or those who want to learn more about the use of 
such dogs. One of NAGDU's major projects is the establishment of a 
national toll-free education and advocacy hotline that will provide 
on-demand access to information about guide dog use, including 
information about state and federal laws that protect the civil 
rights of service animal users. This hotline will also afford callers 
the ability to speak with a specially trained volunteer advocate to 
help resolve access issues. All Proceeds from this cruise will be 
used to support this innovative service and other valuable programs 
of the National Association of Guide Dog Users.



Sailing Date: November 6, 2010 (round trip from Miami, FL)



Come enjoy a 7-night cruise aboard the new ship from Norwegian Cruise 
Lines, EPIC, which will make it's maiden voyage in July 2010. Enjoy 
the amenities this beautiful ship has to offer and visit the 
beautiful ports of St. Maarten, St. Thomas, Nassau and Miami, plus 
two additional days at sea. Whether it's the entertainment of Blue 
Man Group, Fat Cats, The Second City Comedy Troupe, the first aqua 
park at sea, or just relaxing at the spa or in a lounge chair at the 
pool, this cruise has something for every member of the family, 
including the kids.



Inside Staterooms (Category KK): $768.10*

Family Balcony Staterooms (Category B2): $1208.10*



*Other staterooms are available! (These are closed to groups, but can 
be added as an individual space and put into the group. Because of 
this the price may vary!).

The above pricing is per person and based upon double occupancy. 
Prices include $25 donation to the National Association of Guide Dog 
Users, cruise fare, port charges, and all government taxes and fees 
(subject to change). Prices do not include air fare, transfers, or 
gratuities (all can be added and appropriate charges will apply).



Documentation Required

A U.S. Passport, valid for 6 months after the date of travel, will be 
required to board the ship.



Payment Information

$300.00 per person deposit is due no later than June 1, 2010 ($25 of 
this deposit is non-refundable) Payment plans are available for the 
balance of the fare.

Final Payment is due no later than August 1, 2010



Trip cancellation insurance is available and highly recommended. It 
is suggested that passengers with chronic illnesses purchase travel 
health insurance. This insurance must be purchased at the time of the deposit.



For more information or to book your travel

Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Contractor
<http://echevarriatravel.com/>http://Echevarriatravel.com
1-866-580-5574
blog.echevarriatravel.com
<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10


Be sure to mention NAGDU to secure these rates!

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb  6 02:59:42 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:59:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Searching for Carriage Returns
References: <mailman.21.1265392804.28887.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
	<A1F23884508C4E68A4130E929F71AAEE@VALUED04C3B21F>
Message-ID: <C9C984999DB044A59A9EFDE346740F3D@stanford.edu>

Thanks.  Where did you find that information?  Are there ones for pagebreak 
and line break as well?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sean Whalen" <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Searching for Carriage Returns


> Nicole,
>
> Search for ^p to find any instance where the creator of the document 
> pressed
> enter to go to a new line.
>
> Hope it helps,
>
> Sean Whalen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 03:59:55 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:59:55 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
Message-ID: <8115380913CA4ADE8207B692E802E40D@sarahcomp>

Not only software but hadware. I had to settle for a bltm20 fr years and now
all I have   is a recorder and a slate and stylus for taking notes wich is
fine but man my hand akes after a while. And I had to slate out an outline
for a 6 minute speech. Rehab will not upgrade me to a braille display and my
blazer is about 8 or 9 years old.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:45 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Cc: 'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.';
tabs_students at googlegroups.com; 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Dear list,

I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
with its mainstream counterparts.

At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.

Looking forward to your input,

Joe Orozco

"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
crowd."--Max Lucado
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4829 (20100202) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 04:22:00 2010
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 22:22:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dominion
In-Reply-To: <041B88821A0E47B6A5E7C3F6177B0A3D@Rufus>
References: <041B88821A0E47B6A5E7C3F6177B0A3D@Rufus>
Message-ID: <7949e5e21002052022u5187cc5ai3a7060abb6833dba@mail.gmail.com>

Joe,

Thanks so much for this!  If it shows your nurdy side, you're in good
company; I've wanted to play immersive strategy-related RP for a long
time, but I could never find anything accessible.  So, I'm definitely
glad you found this.
Courtney

On 2/5/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I suppose this will show the nerdy side of me, or confirm it, but if anyone
> is interested in playing a completely accessible online RPG strategy game,
> you should check out Dominion.  The rounds run for seven weeks at a time,
> and a new round is set to start this weekend.  More information is at:
>
> http://www.kamikazegames.com/dominion/
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4839 (20100205) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sat Feb  6 17:55:26 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 12:55:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene>

I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a 
sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it didn't 
work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the regular 
site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list you as 
her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer


> Hi:
>
> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
> seems to me.
> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>
> Kerri
>
> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi:
>>
>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my 
>> friends
>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I went
>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had 
>> been
>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody know 
>> how
>> to correct this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Serena
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  6 22:33:17 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 14:33:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A follow up on the  ebay accessibility problem.
Message-ID: <83DF72B122304455807E56A8852BE610@sarahcomp>

Hello to all. I've tried www.ebay.com for selling some stuff for someone and
I cannot get it to work. Is there a way to operate that site easier? I've
tried IE7 and  jaws and saToGo and firefox with jaws. Nothing. All goes well
until I try an change the location of the item. I do what ever I can and
nothing happens when I click the link to change location. Help. And I need
to get this done asap. If you want you can write me off list. But I'm
frustrated to no end here. And every list I contact either gives me no
answer or stuff I've tried. Growl!

Take care of yourselves.

Sarah alawami 
MsN: chellist at hotmail.com
AIM: kales2 at cox.net
skype: marrie1
twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1
website: http://www.marrie.org



From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:37:08 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:37:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A follow up on the ebay accessibility problem.
In-Reply-To: <83DF72B122304455807E56A8852BE610@sarahcomp>
References: <83DF72B122304455807E56A8852BE610@sarahcomp>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002061637x7e332ed0s540b994faf79e408@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

Try activating the jaws cursor and clicking the change location link
with the mouse button on the keyboard....that may do the trick


Hope this helps.

Kerri

On 2/6/10, Sarah alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello to all. I've tried www.ebay.com for selling some stuff for someone and
> I cannot get it to work. Is there a way to operate that site easier? I've
> tried IE7 and  jaws and saToGo and firefox with jaws. Nothing. All goes well
> until I try an change the location of the item. I do what ever I can and
> nothing happens when I click the link to change location. Help. And I need
> to get this done asap. If you want you can write me off list. But I'm
> frustrated to no end here. And every list I contact either gives me no
> answer or stuff I've tried. Growl!
>
> Take care of yourselves.
>
> Sarah alawami
> MsN: chellist at hotmail.com
> AIM: kales2 at cox.net
> skype: marrie1
> twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1
> website: http://www.marrie.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>


From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 00:39:26 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:39:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
In-Reply-To: <003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene>
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a lot!
I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!

Kerri

On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it didn't
> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the regular
> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list you as
> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>
>
>> Hi:
>>
>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>> seems to me.
>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>> friends
>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I went
>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had
>>> been
>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody know
>>> how
>>> to correct this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Serena
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 01:04:59 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:04:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Textbook publishers heading to iPad
In-Reply-To: <9AD885015FC34D6EB3D13EF03F17CEE0@Rufus>
References: <9AD885015FC34D6EB3D13EF03F17CEE0@Rufus>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002061704q2d14c235i93814a00145fbae4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi:

This is nice, but wonder if these ebooks will be accessible and could
be read on either the iphone, ipad, or ipod touch with voice over.

Just my thoughts.

Kerri

On 2/4/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Subject: Textbook publishers heading to iPad
>
>
>
>
> Textbook publishers heading to iPad
>
> Major publishers sign deal with ScrollMotion to adapt their textbooks and
> study guides for Apple's iPad, iPhone, and iPod Touch.
>
> Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10446865-37.html?part=rss
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> Apple <http://news.cnet.com/apple/>
> February 3, 2010 11:37 AM PST
>
> Textbook publishers heading to iPad
>
> by Lance Whitney <http://www.cnet.com/profile/lancewhitney/>
>
> *	Font size
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> <http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10446865-37.html#comments> comment
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> Publishers aren't wasting any time getting their books onto the new iPad.
>
>   <http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20100203/hero_20100127_270x326.png>
> (Credit: Apple <http://www.apple.com> )
>
> Publishers Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, Kaplan Publishing, McGraw-Hill
> Education, and Pearson have signed deals to be among the first to port their
> textbooks over to Apple's new tablet. Heading to the iPad as well as the
> iPhone  <http://www.cnet.com/apple-iphone.html> and iPod Touch
> <http://www.cnet.com/ipod/>  will be their textbooks, study guides, and test
> prep manuals.
>
> Announced on Wednesday, the agreements were made with ScrollMotion, a
> company that develops the iPhone e-reader app Iceberg Reader and works with
> publishers to digitize their books for the mobile market.
>
> The digital textbooks promise a slew of options to take advantage of the
> medium, according to ScrollMotion. Students can mark text in any of six
> different colors to visually categorize each highlight. They can write notes
> or use the microphone built into the iPad and iPhone to record audio notes.
>
> Students can also search for text by subject, topic, and other criteria. The
> digital books are even capable of playing quick videos to accompany the
> content. Finally, students can take interactive quizzes and track their
> right and wrong answers on the device.
>
> Even before Apple chief Steve Jobs touted the iPad
> <http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10444360-82.html>  as the ultimate
> e-book reader, publishers were eager to hop on board.
>
> At an earnings conference call the day before the iPad launch last week,
> McGraw Hill CEO Terry McGraw dangled
> <http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10444004-37.html> remarks about his
> company's college textbooks potentially running on an Apple tablet. The
> publisher's CourseSmart textbook line is already available as an iPhone and
> iPod Touch app. McGraw seemed confident that the same content now on the
> iPhone could run out of the box on a tablet device.
>
> Debate has surfaced as to whether the iPad could push other e-book readers
> out of the marketplace or at least make a dent in their sales. The iPad has
> a couple of potential drawbacks. Its LCD screen is seen as less friendly on
> the eyes than the e-ink used in dedicated readers like the Kindle. And for
> consumers only interested in reading books, the iPad's starting price of
> $499 could be hard to swallow compared to the lower cost of most standalone
> e-book readers.
>
>   <http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bn/mugs/blog_lance_whitney_60x60.png> Lance
> Whitney wears a few different technology hats--journalist, Web developer,
> and software trainer. He's a contributing editor for Microsoft TechNet
> Magazine and writes for other computer publications and Web sites. You can
> follow Lance on Twitter at @lancewhit <http://www.twitter.com/lancewhit> .
> Lance is a member of the CNET Blog Network, and he is not an employee of
> CNET.
>
> Topics:
>
>
>
> iPhone <http://news.cnet.com/apple/iphone/> ,
>
>
>
>
> iPod <http://news.cnet.com/apple/ipod/> ,
>
>
>
>
> iPad <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?categoryId=10442813>
>
>
> Tags:
>
>
>
> iPad <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=iPad> ,
>
>
>
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> e-books <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=e-books> ,
>
>
>
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> e-book  <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=e-book+readers>
> readers,
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
> textbooks <http://news.cnet.com/8300-13579_3-37.html?keyword=textbooks> ,
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> ScrollMotion
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> Recent posts from Apple
>
> Textbook  <http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10446865-37.html> publishers
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>
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> sell 8 million iPads by 2012
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sun Feb  7 01:17:59 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 20:17:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com><003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene>

Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of the 
profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when I looked at 
"help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was that you have to log 
in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean you can't edit it from the 
mobile site?  Or only that you can't use your cell phone to do it?  (This 
doesn't apply to me anyway.)

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer


> Thanks a lot!
> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>
> Kerri
>
> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
>> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it 
>> didn't
>> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the regular
>> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list you 
>> as
>> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>
>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>> seems to me.
>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi:
>>>>
>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>> friends
>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I 
>>>> went
>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had
>>>> been
>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody 
>>>> know
>>>> how
>>>> to correct this?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Serena
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Feb  7 02:12:01 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 20:12:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <482EECF62BA5428D82EF751F24CC57A1@Rufus>
References: <auto-000138041901@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<482EECF62BA5428D82EF751F24CC57A1@Rufus>
Message-ID: <auto-000138613798@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Joe:

No one likes expensive devices and software.  However, just objecting 
to the expense doesn't change what the company has to pay to develop 
and market a product.  A lot of the cost is in the marketing, sales, 
and support of a product -- if we could figure a way to bring those 
costs down, it might help.  The numbers also hurt us -- that is 
relatively speaking, it isn't a large market, so there just aren't 
economies of scale.  One of the most successful AT devices of all 
times is the Stream.  I don't know how many Humanware has sold, 
although I have heard in the 12,000 to 15,000 range, which seems 
about right t0o me.  Apple probably sells 100,000 iPods a month -- 
that is what I mean by economies of scale.

Can or should a company set up a financing program.  Well, it is 
nice, but easier to do for software, because the actual costs are not 
great, so you don't actually have to front money.  With hardware, the 
company has to actually build something -- which m4eans buying the 
parts etc.  So we generally just see financing of software by 
companies themselves.


I personally think the government should subsidize purchases, or the 
companies, to make things cheaper.  Otherwise I don't know how it will happen.

Dave

At 09:30 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>You're an excellent person to answer some of these questions, given your
>diverse background.  These are not challenges to your message.  Rather, I'm
>trying to get a better sense of the landscape.
>
>1. If you agree there are many people who cannot afford the technology they
>need, why is it unfair to criticize developers for maintaining high price
>tags for their products?  In your experience, is it completely unfeasible to
>ask companies to run a financing program similar to that GW Micro offers for
>its Window Eyes product?
>
>2. If the products are expensive to develop, why are consumers not receiving
>more for their investment?  This sounds like a contradiction in itself, but
>one would suppose that if updates and upgrades take time to release, why
>aren't releases aiming to compete with mainstream devices?  8 gigs of memory
>is appreciated and a long step from the previous capacity of Braille
>notetakers, but one could purchase a netbook with 20 times the capacity at
>20 times less than the cost of a Braille notetaker.
>
>To clarify, I am not making government agencies the enemy.  I am holding
>developers fully responsible for developing products that will largely be
>marketed to government agencies.  In an age where government employees have
>better computer systems at home than they do at work, it makes sense that
>government agencies are overlooking the fact that the technology they are
>dishing out thousands of dollars for is not meeting its full potential.  In
>a normal market developers would develop products according to the needs of
>the consumers.  Instead, we have a market where consumers can voice their
>opinions and hope that their feedback will be filtered through agencies like
>the IRS, who are primarily responsible for Freedom Scientific producing
>40-cell Braille displays.  Adaptive technology companies make large
>announcements about new products, get the customer base in a frenzy and
>count on this customer base to pressure agencies into purchasing the
>equipment.  There is something wrong with this picture.
>
>I appreciate the work developers have done to keep blind people in the loop.
>No one will deny that their products have made careers possible, but I think
>there needs to be a real voice from consumers that is heard and responded
>to.  The legislation concerning the technology bill of rights is one method,
>but here again we are relying on policymakers to act on our behalf.
>
>Given my background in professional fundraising, I would like to convene a
>team of people to help me approach companies about setting up a fund to help
>professionals obtain the technology they need to make their daily work
>possible.  Yet, I do not think this is the first priority.  Such a step
>would suggest we are okay with the current price structure and mostly lack
>of financing opportunities.
>
>Anyway, it's a rant, but I've already collected a score of personal stories
>from people who disagree with your opinion.  Nevertheless, you seem to have
>a well-rounded perspective on this issue and hope you can provide further
>insight.
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:52 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in
>others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't
>afford the technology they need or could use.
>
>However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers,
>and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have
>been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and
>work for a state agency.
>
>It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give
>manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy
>stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can
>negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.
>
>Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more
>then you realize.
>
>Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the
>solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.
>
>David Andrews
>
>At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
> >Dear list,
> >
> >I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> >technology.  While you're in college you might receive
>assistance from your
> >rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some
>assistance after you
> >find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> >directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have
>had to settle
> >for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.
>But, that's
> >the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who
>cannot afford
> >this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>attention to
> >this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether
>or not you
> >think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views
>to myself.
> >If there is a high number of people unable to tap into
>emerging software
> >simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
> >understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to
>develop.  Yet, it
> >seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant
>government contracts
> >that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
> >that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform
>completely on par
> >with its mainstream counterparts.
> >
> >At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet
>it's something
> >I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
> >
> >Looking forward to your input,
> >
> >Joe Orozco
> >
> >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> >crowd."--Max Lucado
> >



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 05:27:20 2010
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:27:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
In-Reply-To: <001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene>
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com><003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <76B0FDD2CBB44E8E8B78C5E2DD3C0C10@raniaPC>

I just edit my profile from the regular site.
Rania, 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Serena
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer

Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of the
profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when I looked at
"help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was that you have to log
in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean you can't edit it from the
mobile site?  Or only that you can't use your cell phone to do it?  (This
doesn't apply to me anyway.)

Serena


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer


> Thanks a lot!
> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>
> Kerri
>
> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
>> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it 
>> didn't
>> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the regular
>> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list you 
>> as
>> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>
>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>> seems to me.
>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi:
>>>>
>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>> friends
>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I 
>>>> went
>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had
>>>> been
>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody 
>>>> know
>>>> how
>>>> to correct this?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Serena
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
om
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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om
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 02/06/10
11:35:00



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 03:24:48 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 19:24:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] A follow up on the ebay accessibility problem.
In-Reply-To: <e5a820711002061637x7e332ed0s540b994faf79e408@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161CBBD86EAF4C23A16DDC904BF785A7@sarahcomp>

Tried that. No go.  And my jaws loses focus  and gets stuck at the start
button. I've had that problem for years now. Lol. I'll try that again
though. I even tried with the vertual mouse with satogo but no luck there
eaather.


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kerri Kosten
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A follow up on the ebay accessibility problem.

Hi:

Try activating the jaws cursor and clicking the change location link with
the mouse button on the keyboard....that may do the trick


Hope this helps.

Kerri

On 2/6/10, Sarah alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello to all. I've tried www.ebay.com for selling some stuff for 
> someone and I cannot get it to work. Is there a way to operate that 
> site easier? I've tried IE7 and  jaws and saToGo and firefox with 
> jaws. Nothing. All goes well until I try an change the location of the 
> item. I do what ever I can and nothing happens when I click the link 
> to change location. Help. And I need to get this done asap. If you 
> want you can write me off list. But I'm frustrated to no end here. And 
> every list I contact either gives me no answer or stuff I've tried. Growl!
>
> Take care of yourselves.
>
> Sarah alawami
> MsN: chellist at hotmail.com
> AIM: kales2 at cox.net
> skype: marrie1
> twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1
> website: http://www.marrie.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40g
> mail.com
>

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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Feb  7 04:54:29 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:54:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <4b69a6c1.1608c00a.2b96.0cb8@mx.google.com>
References: <4b69a6c1.1608c00a.2b96.0cb8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000138361508@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are 
throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with 
little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the 
situation.

Dave

At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things 
>like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous 
>how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for 
>example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer 
>money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we 
>need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would 
>do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her 
>i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>Beth



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Feb  7 05:10:18 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2010 23:10:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
	<647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope>
	<0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96>
	<0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc>
	<4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000138362004@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Just because you say it costs to much, that doesn't reduce the costs 
of developing, marketing and supporting technology.  I understand the 
frustrati0on of every body here, but you folks are completely 
unrealistic as to what is going on.  Just saying something is to 
expensive doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Dave

At 09:07 PM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>us.
>Beth
>
>On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
> > however I do have a position.
> >
> > I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
> > individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR are
> > reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its simple to
> > understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
> > translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
> > However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person would
> > cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its fact.
> > That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts. 
> High school
> > and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have the
> > funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack the
> > funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth would
> > receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, at
> > least on one level.
> >
> > Aziza
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> >
> >
> >> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the members
> >>
> >> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being able
> >>
> >> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker shock.
> >> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated new
> >>
> >> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, since
> >> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not everyone
> >> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, Ginnie.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> >>
> >>
> >>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
> >>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it without
> >>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
> >>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies can
> >>>
> >>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
> >>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
> >>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
> >>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than willing
> >>> to assist you in any way possible.
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>> Hope Paulos
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
> >>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing
> >>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Dear list,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> >>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
> >>>> your
> >>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
> >>>> you
> >>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> >>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
> >>>> settle
> >>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
> >>>> that's
> >>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
> >>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention
> >>>> to
> >>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
> >>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
> >>>> myself.
> >>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
> >>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
> >>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
> >>>> it
> >>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
> >>>> contracts
> >>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
> >>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on
> >>>> par
> >>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
> >>>>
> >>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
> >>>> something
> >>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
> >>>>
> >>>> Looking forward to your input,
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe Orozco
> >>>>
> >>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> >>>> crowd."--Max Lucado



From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 05:11:49 2010
From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:11:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope><0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96><0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc><4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000138362004@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <52EFF042DFE849F8B56F264F4FEEA2CA@azizapc>

I agree with Dave, we can not discredit the fact that the things we use are 
expensive to make. However, is there a way to reduce the cost, which would 
then reduce the cost we pay?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Just because you say it costs to much, that doesn't reduce the costs of 
> developing, marketing and supporting technology.  I understand the 
> frustrati0on of every body here, but you folks are completely unrealistic 
> as to what is going on.  Just saying something is to expensive doesn't 
> amount to a hill of beans.
>
> Dave
>
> At 09:07 PM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>>I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>>there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>>bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>>chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>>92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>>us.
>>Beth
>>
>>On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>> > however I do have a position.
>> >
>> > I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>> > individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR 
>> > are
>> > reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its 
>> > simple to
>> > understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>> > translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>> > However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person 
>> > would
>> > cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its 
>> > fact.
>> > That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts.
>> High school
>> > and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't have 
>> > the
>> > funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack 
>> > the
>> > funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth 
>> > would
>> > receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, 
>> > at
>> > least on one level.
>> >
>> > Aziza
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> >
>> >
>> >> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the 
>> >> members
>> >>
>> >> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being 
>> >> able
>> >>
>> >> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker 
>> >> shock.
>> >> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your complicated 
>> >> new
>> >>
>> >> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, 
>> >> since
>> >> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not 
>> >> everyone
>> >> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, 
>> >> Ginnie.
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that I've
>> >>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it 
>> >>> without
>> >>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>> >>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that companies 
>> >>> can
>> >>>
>> >>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>> >>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>> >>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>> >>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than 
>> >>> willing
>> >>> to assist you in any way possible.
>> >>> Sincerely,
>> >>> Hope Paulos
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'"
>> >>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS 
>> >>> Mailing
>> >>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Dear list,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> >>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance 
>> >>>> from
>> >>>> your
>> >>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance 
>> >>>> after
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense 
>> >>>> comes
>> >>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>> >>>> settle
>> >>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>> >>>> that's
>> >>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot 
>> >>>> afford
>> >>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
>> >>>> attention
>> >>>> to
>> >>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not 
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>> >>>> myself.
>> >>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>> >>>> software
>> >>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> >>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. 
>> >>>> Yet,
>> >>>> it
>> >>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>> >>>> contracts
>> >>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a 
>> >>>> device
>> >>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely 
>> >>>> on
>> >>>> par
>> >>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>> >>>> something
>> >>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Looking forward to your input,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Joe Orozco
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> >>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com 



From kerrik2006 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 08:14:52 2010
From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 03:14:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
In-Reply-To: <76B0FDD2CBB44E8E8B78C5E2DD3C0C10@raniaPC>
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<76B0FDD2CBB44E8E8B78C5E2DD3C0C10@raniaPC>
Message-ID: <e5a820711002070014j2d6ddd02ke8c04d2428c69552@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think you can edit that part from the mobile site....have to
do it from the regular one unfortunately.

Kerri

On 2/7/10, Rania <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just edit my profile from the regular site.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Serena
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>
> Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of the
> profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when I looked at
> "help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was that you have to log
> in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean you can't edit it from the
> mobile site?  Or only that you can't use your cell phone to do it?  (This
> doesn't apply to me anyway.)
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>
>
>> Thanks a lot!
>> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
>> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
>> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
>> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>>
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
>>> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it
>>> didn't
>>> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the regular
>>> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list you
>>> as
>>> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi:
>>>>
>>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>>> seems to me.
>>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>>
>>>> Kerri
>>>>
>>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>
>>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>>> friends
>>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I
>>>>> went
>>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he had
>>>>> been
>>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody
>>>>> know
>>>>> how
>>>>> to correct this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Serena
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
> om
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>
>>>
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From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Sun Feb  7 14:31:57 2010
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:31:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <auto-000138041901@mailfront1.g2host.com><482EECF62BA5428D82EF751F24CC57A1@Rufus>
	<auto-000138613798@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <BDFC212D2AD34CEE94517AC2E864241C@D3DTZP41>

Hello:

     I have been following this thread for a few days. It is my 
understanding that in Germany, the government does subsidize the purchase of 
adaptive equipment. As a member of the R&D Committee, I have heard of 
various attempts to bring down the cost of braille displays. All the efforts 
have to date failed. Windows is a very complex operating system. Screen 
readers have to analyze what is going on in order to make the displayed 
information accessible. Third party software developers can and do employ an 
assortment of techniques to make their products more appealing. This adds to 
the complexity. Microsoft works with the screen reader vendors so their 
products work with Windows. Apple chose a different approach by developing 
their own system in house. All vendors of operating systems are constantly 
trying to out perform the competition. This in turn makes the vendors of 
adaptive technology constantly have to innovate. The cost for all this 
competition has to be borne by someone and unfortunately its us.

Regards,

Robert

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Joe:
>
> No one likes expensive devices and software.  However, just objecting to 
> the expense doesn't change what the company has to pay to develop and 
> market a product.  A lot of the cost is in the marketing, sales, and 
> support of a product -- if we could figure a way to bring those costs 
> down, it might help.  The numbers also hurt us -- that is relatively 
> speaking, it isn't a large market, so there just aren't economies of 
> scale.  One of the most successful AT devices of all times is the Stream. 
> I don't know how many Humanware has sold, although I have heard in the 
> 12,000 to 15,000 range, which seems about right t0o me.  Apple probably 
> sells 100,000 iPods a month -- 
> that is what I mean by economies of scale.
>
> Can or should a company set up a financing program.  Well, it is nice, but 
> easier to do for software, because the actual costs are not great, so you 
> don't actually have to front money.  With hardware, the company has to 
> actually build something -- which m4eans buying the parts etc.  So we 
> generally just see financing of software by companies themselves.
>
>
> I personally think the government should subsidize purchases, or the 
> companies, to make things cheaper.  Otherwise I don't know how it will 
> happen.
>
> Dave
>
> At 09:30 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>>Hi David,
>>
>>You're an excellent person to answer some of these questions, given your
>>diverse background.  These are not challenges to your message.  Rather, 
>>I'm
>>trying to get a better sense of the landscape.
>>
>>1. If you agree there are many people who cannot afford the technology 
>>they
>>need, why is it unfair to criticize developers for maintaining high price
>>tags for their products?  In your experience, is it completely unfeasible 
>>to
>>ask companies to run a financing program similar to that GW Micro offers 
>>for
>>its Window Eyes product?
>>
>>2. If the products are expensive to develop, why are consumers not 
>>receiving
>>more for their investment?  This sounds like a contradiction in itself, 
>>but
>>one would suppose that if updates and upgrades take time to release, why
>>aren't releases aiming to compete with mainstream devices?  8 gigs of 
>>memory
>>is appreciated and a long step from the previous capacity of Braille
>>notetakers, but one could purchase a netbook with 20 times the capacity at
>>20 times less than the cost of a Braille notetaker.
>>
>>To clarify, I am not making government agencies the enemy.  I am holding
>>developers fully responsible for developing products that will largely be
>>marketed to government agencies.  In an age where government employees 
>>have
>>better computer systems at home than they do at work, it makes sense that
>>government agencies are overlooking the fact that the technology they are
>>dishing out thousands of dollars for is not meeting its full potential. 
>>In
>>a normal market developers would develop products according to the needs 
>>of
>>the consumers.  Instead, we have a market where consumers can voice their
>>opinions and hope that their feedback will be filtered through agencies 
>>like
>>the IRS, who are primarily responsible for Freedom Scientific producing
>>40-cell Braille displays.  Adaptive technology companies make large
>>announcements about new products, get the customer base in a frenzy and
>>count on this customer base to pressure agencies into purchasing the
>>equipment.  There is something wrong with this picture.
>>
>>I appreciate the work developers have done to keep blind people in the 
>>loop.
>>No one will deny that their products have made careers possible, but I 
>>think
>>there needs to be a real voice from consumers that is heard and responded
>>to.  The legislation concerning the technology bill of rights is one 
>>method,
>>but here again we are relying on policymakers to act on our behalf.
>>
>>Given my background in professional fundraising, I would like to convene a
>>team of people to help me approach companies about setting up a fund to 
>>help
>>professionals obtain the technology they need to make their daily work
>>possible.  Yet, I do not think this is the first priority.  Such a step
>>would suggest we are okay with the current price structure and mostly lack
>>of financing opportunities.
>>
>>Anyway, it's a rant, but I've already collected a score of personal 
>>stories
>>from people who disagree with your opinion.  Nevertheless, you seem to 
>>have
>>a well-rounded perspective on this issue and hope you can provide further
>>insight.
>>
>>Joe Orozco
>>
>>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:52 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>
>>Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in
>>others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't
>>afford the technology they need or could use.
>>
>>However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers,
>>and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have
>>been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and
>>work for a state agency.
>>
>>It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give
>>manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy
>>stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can
>>negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.
>>
>>Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more
>>then you realize.
>>
>>Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the
>>solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.
>>
>>David Andrews
>>
>>At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
>> >Dear list,
>> >
>> >I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> >technology.  While you're in college you might receive
>>assistance from your
>> >rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some
>>assistance after you
>> >find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> >directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have
>>had to settle
>> >for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.
>>But, that's
>> >the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who
>>cannot afford
>> >this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>>attention to
>> >this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether
>>or not you
>> >think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views
>>to myself.
>> >If there is a high number of people unable to tap into
>>emerging software
>> >simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> >understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to
>>develop.  Yet, it
>> >seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant
>>government contracts
>> >that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> >that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform
>>completely on par
>> >with its mainstream counterparts.
>> >
>> >At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet
>>it's something
>> >I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>> >
>> >Looking forward to your input,
>> >
>> >Joe Orozco
>> >
>> >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> >crowd."--Max Lucado
>> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:24:43 2010
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:24:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus><647FB1CF96834AC28BD374F8BE20220B@Hope><0F450CDBC0994739B3871C79F602D015@windows4c0ed96><0EFE033398664660A335ECBA5946D72C@azizapc><4383d01d1002031907h85d647fyfd634d700a5d389@mail.gmail.com><auto-000138362004@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<52EFF042DFE849F8B56F264F4FEEA2CA@azizapc>
Message-ID: <BF86718E85084E488AD8E99D55ACDA6B@Dezman>

I think one way companies could reduce the cost is to take advantage of 
existing mainstream devices.  For example, why couldn't Freedom Scientific 
have simply designed a JFW for Pocket PC that would run on say a Dell PDA 
running Windows Mobile, smartphones, etc as oppose to reinventing the 
hardware wheel with the pacmate? These mainstream devices could easily be 
pared with a Braille display via bluetooth or USB if one desired.  Those are 
just my thoughts, but I'm not in the assistive technology development 
business and don't know all the complexities of the design of this stuff.

Best,
Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aziza" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>I agree with Dave, we can not discredit the fact that the things we use are 
>expensive to make. However, is there a way to reduce the cost, which would 
>then reduce the cost we pay?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> Just because you say it costs to much, that doesn't reduce the costs of 
>> developing, marketing and supporting technology.  I understand the 
>> frustrati0on of every body here, but you folks are completely unrealistic 
>> as to what is going on.  Just saying something is to expensive doesn't 
>> amount to a hill of beans.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 09:07 PM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>>>I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>>>there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>>>bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>>>chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>>>92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>>>us.
>>>Beth
>>>
>>>On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>>> > however I do have a position.
>>> >
>>> > I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>>> > individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR 
>>> > are
>>> > reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its 
>>> > simple to
>>> > understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>>> > translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>>> > However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person 
>>> > would
>>> > cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its 
>>> > fact.
>>> > That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts.
>>> High school
>>> > and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't 
>>> > have the
>>> > funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack 
>>> > the
>>> > funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth 
>>> > would
>>> > receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations, 
>>> > at
>>> > least on one level.
>>> >
>>> > Aziza
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the 
>>> >> members
>>> >>
>>> >> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being 
>>> >> able
>>> >>
>>> >> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker 
>>> >> shock.
>>> >> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your 
>>> >> complicated new
>>> >>
>>> >> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, 
>>> >> since
>>> >> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not 
>>> >> everyone
>>> >> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, 
>>> >> Ginnie.
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that 
>>> >>> I've
>>> >>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it 
>>> >>> without
>>> >>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>> >>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that 
>>> >>> companies can
>>> >>>
>>> >>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>> >>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>> >>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>> >>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than 
>>> >>> willing
>>> >>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>> >>> Hope Paulos
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind 
>>> >>> Students.'"
>>> >>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS 
>>> >>> Mailing
>>> >>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Dear list,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with 
>>> >>>> adaptive
>>> >>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance 
>>> >>>> from
>>> >>>> your
>>> >>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance 
>>> >>>> after
>>> >>>> you
>>> >>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense 
>>> >>>> comes
>>> >>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had 
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> settle
>>> >>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>> >>>> that's
>>> >>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot 
>>> >>>> afford
>>> >>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
>>> >>>> attention
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or 
>>> >>>> not you
>>> >>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>> >>>> myself.
>>> >>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>>> >>>> software
>>> >>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you. 
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. 
>>> >>>> Yet,
>>> >>>> it
>>> >>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>> >>>> contracts
>>> >>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a 
>>> >>>> device
>>> >>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely 
>>> >>>> on
>>> >>>> par
>>> >>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>> >>>> something
>>> >>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Joe Orozco
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>> >>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 



From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb  7 19:13:14 2010
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 13:13:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <4b69a6c1.1608c00a.2b96.0cb8@mx.google.com>
	<auto-000138361508@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <003e01caa829$9a544560$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Dave and listers,

    And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has been
used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing 
practices of these
companies be launched! There are too many voices speaking out against the
state of adaptive technology marketing and such to continue to ignore it.
Something must change!

    I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration to 
me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs due 
to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been 
recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these exams 
last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the 
hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology 
instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to keep 
their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem 
which can no longer be tolerated!

    A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be 
technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the technology 
vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while 
holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
situation.

Dave

At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>Beth


_______________________________________________
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http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 18:22:22 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:22:22 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <BF86718E85084E488AD8E99D55ACDA6B@Dezman>
Message-ID: <79ADB9A1171A4A3199FE58C85C443ECA@sarahcomp>

But then they would end up charging about $1000 for the software like the
usually do. I understand we are paying for research, time and programming
hours but 1000 is too much for one on a fixed incom.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dezman Jackson
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 8:25 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

I think one way companies could reduce the cost is to take advantage of
existing mainstream devices.  For example, why couldn't Freedom Scientific
have simply designed a JFW for Pocket PC that would run on say a Dell PDA
running Windows Mobile, smartphones, etc as oppose to reinventing the
hardware wheel with the pacmate? These mainstream devices could easily be
pared with a Braille display via bluetooth or USB if one desired.  Those are
just my thoughts, but I'm not in the assistive technology development
business and don't know all the complexities of the design of this stuff.

Best,
Dezman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aziza" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


>I agree with Dave, we can not discredit the fact that the things we use are

>expensive to make. However, is there a way to reduce the cost, which would 
>then reduce the cost we pay?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
>> Just because you say it costs to much, that doesn't reduce the costs of 
>> developing, marketing and supporting technology.  I understand the 
>> frustrati0on of every body here, but you folks are completely unrealistic

>> as to what is going on.  Just saying something is to expensive doesn't 
>> amount to a hill of beans.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 09:07 PM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>>>I would have to agree with Aziza.  Assistive tech costs too much, and
>>>there needs to be something done about those who are sitting on their
>>>bums collecting government benefits.  We don't have the money nor a
>>>chance to be employable without assistive tech.  Worse, with the 70 to
>>>92.5% chance of us not having jobs, that assistive tech is vital for
>>>us.
>>>Beth
>>>
>>>On 2/3/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I'm personally not in favor of making anyone the enemy in this issue,
>>> > however I do have a position.
>>> >
>>> > I believe assistive tech costs to much, and unnecessarily so. Few
>>> > individuals can afford them on their own, and organizations like DOR 
>>> > are
>>> > reluctant to pay for things for a reason, they are expensive. Its 
>>> > simple to
>>> > understand, we need more. We need screen readers, OCR software, text
>>> > translation software, embossers, scanners, printers, braille displays.
>>> > However, to make an office setting work perfectly for a blind person 
>>> > would
>>> > cost much more than setting an office up for a sighted person. Its 
>>> > fact.
>>> > That isn't really my main concern. My main concern is districts.
>>> High school
>>> > and younger. They refuse to purchase technology because they don't 
>>> > have the
>>> > funds, or they don't get their students the training because they lack

>>> > the
>>> > funds. If training and our tech costed less perhaps our blind youth 
>>> > would
>>> > receive a better blindness skills education in main stream situations,

>>> > at
>>> > least on one level.
>>> >
>>> > Aziza
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
>>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 12:03 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> This is such a complex issue, but so critical to the lives of  the 
>>> >> members
>>> >>
>>> >> of our community.  It should be pointed out, I think, that just being

>>> >> able
>>> >>
>>> >> to afford the equipment is sometimes just the beginning of sticker 
>>> >> shock.
>>> >> It can be extremely expensive to find instruction for your 
>>> >> complicated new
>>> >>
>>> >> devices, if you can  even find it.  This is true also for repair, 
>>> >> since
>>> >> this equipment is so specialized and esoteric at this time, not 
>>> >> everyone
>>> >> who works on computers will be able to do repairs if needed Best, 
>>> >> Ginnie.
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
>>> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:45 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Dear Joe. I agree with you. There have been countless times that 
>>> >>> I've
>>> >>> needed adaptive technology and haven't been able to purchase it 
>>> >>> without
>>> >>> assistance from my vocational rehabilitation agency. (I was in high
>>> >>> school or college at the time). It's horrible to think that 
>>> >>> companies can
>>> >>>
>>> >>> charge $150 or more for even  software updates.  Paying $6,200 or
>>> >>> thereabouts for a device made especially for the blind is ludicrous.
>>> >>> Especially when this device may not be compatible with mainstream
>>> >>> software. If you need help with this campaign, I'd be more than 
>>> >>> willing
>>> >>> to assist you in any way possible.
>>> >>> Sincerely,
>>> >>> Hope Paulos
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Cc: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind 
>>> >>> Students.'"
>>> >>> <nabs at acb.org>; <tabs_students at googlegroups.com>; "'NFBnet NFBCS 
>>> >>> Mailing
>>> >>> List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:45 PM
>>> >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Dear list,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with 
>>> >>>> adaptive
>>> >>>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance 
>>> >>>> from
>>> >>>> your
>>> >>>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance 
>>> >>>> after
>>> >>>> you
>>> >>>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense 
>>> >>>> comes
>>> >>>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had 
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> settle
>>> >>>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>>> >>>> that's
>>> >>>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot 
>>> >>>> afford
>>> >>>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public 
>>> >>>> attention
>>> >>>> to
>>> >>>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or 
>>> >>>> not you
>>> >>>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to
>>> >>>> myself.
>>> >>>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging 
>>> >>>> software
>>> >>>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you. 
>>> >>>> I
>>> >>>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop. 
>>> >>>> Yet,
>>> >>>> it
>>> >>>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government
>>> >>>> contracts
>>> >>>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a 
>>> >>>> device
>>> >>>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely 
>>> >>>> on
>>> >>>> par
>>> >>>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's
>>> >>>> something
>>> >>>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Looking forward to your input,
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Joe Orozco
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>>> >>>> crowd."--Max Lucado
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> 


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From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sun Feb  7 19:21:28 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:21:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com><003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com><001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene><76B0FDD2CBB44E8E8B78C5E2DD3C0C10@raniaPC>
	<e5a820711002070014j2d6ddd02ke8c04d2428c69552@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004901caa82a$bf4e4130$0201a8c0@Serene>

Thanks.  I hate the regular site!  I guess, editing that part will have to 
wait till my computer geneous brother comes home next weekend for a visit.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer


>I don't think you can edit that part from the mobile site....have to
> do it from the regular one unfortunately.
>
> Kerri
>
> On 2/7/10, Rania <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just edit my profile from the regular site.
>> Rania,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Serena
>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:18 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>
>> Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of the
>> profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when I looked 
>> at
>> "help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was that you have to 
>> log
>> in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean you can't edit it from the
>> mobile site?  Or only that you can't use your cell phone to do it?  (This
>> doesn't apply to me anyway.)
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>
>>
>>> Thanks a lot!
>>> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
>>> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
>>> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
>>> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>>>
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
>>>> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it
>>>> didn't
>>>> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the 
>>>> regular
>>>> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list 
>>>> you
>>>> as
>>>> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>>>>
>>>> Serena
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>>>> seems to me.
>>>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>>>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>>>> friends
>>>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I
>>>>>> went
>>>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> to correct this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Serena
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>> om
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>> n.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>> om
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> l.com
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>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>>
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 20:51:26 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 12:51:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <003e01caa829$9a544560$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <1F65596163E242B58B72483DF431419E@sarahcomp>

Agreed. Is there a way we could arange that?  I refuse to speak in public
though. Lol. I suck.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:13 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Hello Dave and listers,

    And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has been
used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing
practices of these companies be launched! There are too many voices speaking
out against the state of adaptive technology marketing and such to continue
to ignore it.
Something must change!

    I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration to
me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs due
to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been
recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these exams
last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the
hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology
instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to keep
their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem
which can no longer be tolerated!

    A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be
technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the technology
vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while
holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
situation.

Dave

At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>Beth


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From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Sun Feb  7 21:35:05 2010
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 15:35:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <1F65596163E242B58B72483DF431419E@sarahcomp>
Message-ID: <002701caa83d$6a359b90$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Sarah and listers,

    One way is for us to contact Dr. Maurer to ask him to include this item 
on the main convention agenda. I can do this but I'm only one voice. This is 
more likely to happen if he receives a large number of requests from members 
wanting this item to be on the convention agenda for discussion. Who else 
will contact him with the same request?

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah alawami" <marrie12 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


Agreed. Is there a way we could arange that?  I refuse to speak in public
though. Lol. I suck.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:13 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Hello Dave and listers,

    And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has been
used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing
practices of these companies be launched! There are too many voices speaking
out against the state of adaptive technology marketing and such to continue
to ignore it.
Something must change!

    I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration to
me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs due
to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been
recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these exams
last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the
hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology
instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to keep
their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem
which can no longer be tolerated!

    A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be
technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the technology
vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while
holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
situation.

Dave

At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>Beth


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 22:01:20 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:01:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <002701caa83d$6a359b90$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <679D877331E64972B8BEE16DFB4E7DB4@sarahcomp>

How do you go about doing  that? I still refue to spea in public but I'll do
what I can  behind the sceens to help.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 1:35 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Hello Sarah and listers,

    One way is for us to contact Dr. Maurer to ask him to include this item
on the main convention agenda. I can do this but I'm only one voice. This is
more likely to happen if he receives a large number of requests from members
wanting this item to be on the convention agenda for discussion. Who else
will contact him with the same request?

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sarah alawami" <marrie12 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


Agreed. Is there a way we could arange that?  I refuse to speak in public
though. Lol. I suck.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:13 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Hello Dave and listers,

    And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has been
used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing
practices of these companies be launched! There are too many voices speaking
out against the state of adaptive technology marketing and such to continue
to ignore it.
Something must change!

    I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration to
me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs due
to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been
recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these exams
last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the
hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology
instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to keep
their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem
which can no longer be tolerated!

    A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be
technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the technology
vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while
holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
situation.

Dave

At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>Beth


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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Sun Feb  7 22:36:46 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:36:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100207223646.3382.17464@web3.serotek.com>

Peter,

I think you're right on. If we continue to accept the notion that 
there's no real way to bring down costs because we're a small market 
and the cost of research and development is porportionally expensive, 
then we comfirm our acceptance of the status quo I think the National 
federation of the blind is the perfect organization for the creativity 
of consumers to meet the experience of the developers in a conversation 
that could really yield something impressive. How many times have w in 
the Organized Blind told some outside part of the blindness community 
that we would no longer be bossed around by bureaucracy or, in this 
case, rediculous pricing? Instead, we invited these people to meet with 
us and develop unique solutions that have empowered and brought 
sustainability to the blindness system. Why can't we do that again? 
Remember that it was the National federation of the Blind and Kurzweil 
Technologies who entered into conversations with each other and built 
the world's first handheld reading machine. The main goal was to 
produce a machine with mainstream components so that the price wouldn't 
be as high as it could have been otherwise. As a result, we were able 
to drop the price of the KNFB Reader by putting into a cell phone with 
a screen reader. we then dropped the price further and further over 
time to the point where what was once $3500 became about $1700 or less 
depending on the phone you use. Let's say that KnFB Reading 
Technologies came up with a platform for the iPhone. We've just dropped 
the price further by no longer needing a third party screen reading 
software unless the consumer wants to buy a phone that requires one. 
The bottom line here is that its doable if we're willing to make it 
doable. Need I also remind all of you that the Federation was a major 
voice in the development of HumanWare's victor Reader Stream? As a 
result, HumanWare was able to create a device that was simple, 
effective, and relatively inexpensive. Some are saying that the Stream 
is one of the most highly sought after of humanWare's products and, to 
tell you the truth, I think that it's the best they have these days 
since there have been so many changes over there. Just my thoughts.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Hello Dave and listers,

>     And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has been
> used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
> industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
> situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
> circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
> nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
> full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing
> practices of these
> companies be launched! There are too many voices speaking out against the
> state of adaptive technology marketing and such to continue to ignore it.
> Something must change!

>     I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration to
> me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs due
> to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been
> recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these exams
> last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the
> hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology
> instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to keep
> their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem
> which can no longer be tolerated!

>     A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be
> technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the technology
> vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while
> holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

> Peter Donahue

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
> throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
> little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
> situation.

> Dave

> At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>> I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>> There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>> like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>> how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>> example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>> money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>> need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>> do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>> i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>> Beth


> _______________________________________________
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From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Sun Feb  7 22:38:00 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2010 17:38:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
Message-ID: <20100207223800.3386.26061@web3.serotek.com>

I will Peter. Should we write him by e-mail, by snail mail, or call?

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Hello Sarah and listers,

>     One way is for us to contact Dr. Maurer to ask him to include this item
> on the main convention agenda. I can do this but I'm only one voice. This is
> more likely to happen if he receives a large number of requests from members
> wanting this item to be on the convention agenda for discussion. Who else
> will contact him with the same request?

> Peter Donahue


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah alawami" <marrie12 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Agreed. Is there a way we could arange that?  I refuse to speak in public
> though. Lol. I suck.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:13 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

> Hello Dave and listers,

>     And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has been
> used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
> industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
> situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
> circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
> nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
> full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing
> practices of these companies be launched! There are too many voices speaking
> out against the state of adaptive technology marketing and such to continue
> to ignore it.
> Something must change!

>     I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration to
> me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs due
> to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been
> recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these exams
> last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the
> hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology
> instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to keep
> their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem
> which can no longer be tolerated!

>     A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be
> technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the technology
> vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while
> holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

> Peter Donahue

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
> throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
> little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
> situation.

> Dave

> At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>> I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>> There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>> like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>> how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>> example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>> money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>> need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>> do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>> i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>> Beth


> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From jsorozco at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 00:23:47 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:23:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <auto-000138613798@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <FD399AFDCC9948CCBF0974AEAE111E52@Rufus>

David,

I don't know that companies can have it both ways.  On the one hand you're
saying that the cost of sales and marketing justifies the current price of
adaptive products, but then you say that we have to consider the fact that
there is a small market.  The Freedom Scientifics of the world are not
exactly pitching radio and television commercials.  They may be spending a
little money on Internet advertisement, but after a product is launched, do
you really see that many ads competing for business?  If we can agree that
the government is an adaptive company's largest customer, I think we could
agree there is something to be said for customer loyalty, a loyalty whose
need for extravagant sales and marketing is minimal.  I would argue that it
is blind people themselves who carry the bulk of the marketing through their
blogs, podcasts and list posts.

Where does profit measure into your logic model?  You can't possibly think
the money is all being spent on sales, marketing and support.  By the way,
the support at Freedom Scientific isn't exactly scientific.  Too many times
I have found better help on the lists than I have from their
representatives.  This is, of course, not true across the board.  There are
a couple of great guys over there, but my point is that we should not
minimize the amount the executives are pocketing at our expense.  Would
Wafra Partners have bought Freedom Scientific if it did not see something to
gain from the purchase?  Here here for capitalism, but surely these
executives must know that better products would also mean greater demand.

I don't know how much it costs to develop a single notetaker.  I think they
could have made a better Pac Mate seeing as how all they did was transplant
an existing operating system and screen reader.  I think JAWS 11 could have
had more to it than the Research It feature.  What I do know is that
companies like Freedom Scientific and Humanware have a development roadmap.
We may be in the dark about what may lie in three upgrades from now, but
their engineers know what they're going to consist of.  If what you say is
true that the money is comparable to the cost of what it takes to get the
product out, then I think consumers have every right to put pressure on the
companies to speed up those roadmaps.

A couple of computer science students have been asking Humanware to release
a public version of the SDK so that they can release their own applications
to extend the functionality of the new Apex.  Humanware has said it would
only sell the SDK to companies, and from what I understand, these prices are
not low.  What does that tell you about the company's interest in extending
development?

I do not mean to oversimplify the problem.  I also do not mean to trivialize
the contributions of adaptive developers.  I would like to see opportunities
for more working professionals to afford the technology.  If, however, I and
others are going to be expected to shell out hundreds, sometimes thousands,
of dollars to get the latest software release or hardware upgrades, we want
more for our hard-earned money.  Consumer satisfaction is also part of that
capitalism monster, and for too long we have been given bits and pieces and
have been expected to be satisfied.

Talk to us a little more about this subsidy program.  You may be on to
something.  I hope to get my little group of interested people into action
here in the next couple of weeks.  Part of it is finding the time to
coordinate it all between a full-time job and running a part-time business.
My group have their own schedules to juggle, but I really am confident about
the outcomes.  We're not going to fail on account of lack of hard work.

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:12 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Joe:

No one likes expensive devices and software.  However, just objecting 
to the expense doesn't change what the company has to pay to develop 
and market a product.  A lot of the cost is in the marketing, sales, 
and support of a product -- if we could figure a way to bring those 
costs down, it might help.  The numbers also hurt us -- that is 
relatively speaking, it isn't a large market, so there just aren't 
economies of scale.  One of the most successful AT devices of all 
times is the Stream.  I don't know how many Humanware has sold, 
although I have heard in the 12,000 to 15,000 range, which seems 
about right t0o me.  Apple probably sells 100,000 iPods a month -- 
that is what I mean by economies of scale.

Can or should a company set up a financing program.  Well, it is 
nice, but easier to do for software, because the actual costs are not 
great, so you don't actually have to front money.  With hardware, the 
company has to actually build something -- which m4eans buying the 
parts etc.  So we generally just see financing of software by 
companies themselves.


I personally think the government should subsidize purchases, or the 
companies, to make things cheaper.  Otherwise I don't know how 
it will happen.

Dave

At 09:30 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>You're an excellent person to answer some of these questions, 
given your
>diverse background.  These are not challenges to your message. 
 Rather, I'm
>trying to get a better sense of the landscape.
>
>1. If you agree there are many people who cannot afford the 
technology they
>need, why is it unfair to criticize developers for maintaining 
high price
>tags for their products?  In your experience, is it completely 
unfeasible to
>ask companies to run a financing program similar to that GW 
Micro offers for
>its Window Eyes product?
>
>2. If the products are expensive to develop, why are consumers 
not receiving
>more for their investment?  This sounds like a contradiction 
in itself, but
>one would suppose that if updates and upgrades take time to 
release, why
>aren't releases aiming to compete with mainstream devices?  8 
gigs of memory
>is appreciated and a long step from the previous capacity of Braille
>notetakers, but one could purchase a netbook with 20 times the 
capacity at
>20 times less than the cost of a Braille notetaker.
>
>To clarify, I am not making government agencies the enemy.  I 
am holding
>developers fully responsible for developing products that will 
largely be
>marketed to government agencies.  In an age where government 
employees have
>better computer systems at home than they do at work, it makes 
sense that
>government agencies are overlooking the fact that the 
technology they are
>dishing out thousands of dollars for is not meeting its full 
potential.  In
>a normal market developers would develop products according to 
the needs of
>the consumers.  Instead, we have a market where consumers can 
voice their
>opinions and hope that their feedback will be filtered through 
agencies like
>the IRS, who are primarily responsible for Freedom Scientific producing
>40-cell Braille displays.  Adaptive technology companies make large
>announcements about new products, get the customer base in a frenzy and
>count on this customer base to pressure agencies into purchasing the
>equipment.  There is something wrong with this picture.
>
>I appreciate the work developers have done to keep blind 
people in the loop.
>No one will deny that their products have made careers 
possible, but I think
>there needs to be a real voice from consumers that is heard 
and responded
>to.  The legislation concerning the technology bill of rights 
is one method,
>but here again we are relying on policymakers to act on our behalf.
>
>Given my background in professional fundraising, I would like 
to convene a
>team of people to help me approach companies about setting up 
a fund to help
>professionals obtain the technology they need to make their daily work
>possible.  Yet, I do not think this is the first priority.  Such a step
>would suggest we are okay with the current price structure and 
mostly lack
>of financing opportunities.
>
>Anyway, it's a rant, but I've already collected a score of 
personal stories
>from people who disagree with your opinion.  Nevertheless, you 
seem to have
>a well-rounded perspective on this issue and hope you can 
provide further
>insight.
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:52 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in
>others.  You are right that there are many individuals who can't
>afford the technology they need or could use.
>
>However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers,
>and government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have
>been on all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and
>work for a state agency.
>
>It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give
>manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy
>stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can
>negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.
>
>Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more
>then you realize.
>
>Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the
>solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.
>
>David Andrews
>
>At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
> >Dear list,
> >
> >I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
> >technology.  While you're in college you might receive
>assistance from your
> >rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some
>assistance after you
> >find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
> >directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have
>had to settle
> >for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.
>But, that's
> >the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who
>cannot afford
> >this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>attention to
> >this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether
>or not you
> >think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views
>to myself.
> >If there is a high number of people unable to tap into
>emerging software
> >simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
> >understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to
>develop.  Yet, it
> >seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant
>government contracts
> >that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 
for a device
> >that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform
>completely on par
> >with its mainstream counterparts.
> >
> >At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet
>it's something
> >I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
> >
> >Looking forward to your input,
> >
> >Joe Orozco
> >
> >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
> >crowd."--Max Lucado
> >


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From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net  Mon Feb  8 01:36:18 2010
From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:36:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
References: <20100207223800.3386.26061@web3.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <004201caa85f$1dd79e70$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Jedi and listers,

    You can do either. His e-mail address is:
officeofthepresident at nfb.org


    I hope others will do likewise.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jedi" <loneblindjedi at samobile.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


I will Peter. Should we write him by e-mail, by snail mail, or call?

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Hello Sarah and listers,

>     One way is for us to contact Dr. Maurer to ask him to include this 
> item
> on the main convention agenda. I can do this but I'm only one voice. This 
> is
> more likely to happen if he receives a large number of requests from 
> members
> wanting this item to be on the convention agenda for discussion. Who else
> will contact him with the same request?

> Peter Donahue


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah alawami" <marrie12 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Agreed. Is there a way we could arange that?  I refuse to speak in public
> though. Lol. I suck.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:13 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

> Hello Dave and listers,

>     And what about the fact that some of what we pay for this stuff has 
> been
> used by one vendor to sue the competition in an attempt to monopolize the
> industry?  All of us are feeling the desperation and disgust over this
> situation that has gone on for too long. Perhaps it's time to stop
> circulating the same old fashion voodoo we've heard for years concerning
> nitch markets, high development and production costs ,etc, and that a
> full-scale investigation in to the development, marketing and pricing
> practices of these companies be launched! There are too many voices 
> speaking
> out against the state of adaptive technology marketing and such to 
> continue
> to ignore it.
> Something must change!

>     I was reminded of this last night when Mary expressed her frustration 
> to
> me over not being able to send in her Pack Mate for some needed repairs 
> due
> to the high cost. She lost several family members to cancer and has been
> recommended for a colonoscopy. She was scheduled to have one of these 
> exams
> last fall but had to back out due to the high co-payment charged by the
> hospital. The money had to go to repairing some of our adaptive technology
> instead. When people are forced to jeopardize their health in order to 
> keep
> their access technology up-to-date and working we have a serious problem
> which can no longer be tolerated!

>     A main agenda item of this year's national convention will be
> technology. Perhaps time should be made for presentations by the 
> technology
> vendors and discussions to find ways of developing this technology while
> holding down and reducing costs to users. JMO.

> Peter Donahue

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag


> Yes the technology is expensive and no one likes it, but you are
> throwing around words like "overpriced," and "steal money" with
> little regard for the truth.  This does nothing towards improving the
> situation.

> Dave

> At 10:41 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>> I believe that we shouldn't have to pay so much for technology.
>> There comes a point where we are all going to have to pay for things
>> like the BrailleNote that I wrote this e-mail on.  It's ridiculous
>> how companies like HumanWare Ltd and Freedom Scientific, for
>> example, overprice their products so that they can steal taxpayer
>> money and then market to a tiny group of people.  The problem is we
>> need this technology in order to do something a sighted person would
>> do such as check e-mail like a sighted person would on his or her
>> i-phone.  Good points, Joe.
>> Beth


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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 06:18:26 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 22:18:26 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <FD399AFDCC9948CCBF0974AEAE111E52@Rufus>
Message-ID: <972A56D5D42142AB836F994A99ACF640@sarahcomp>

I too will do that , iin the morning when I'm more awake. Right now I fell I
can't make much sence when Im this tired.

Take care and  I hep he wont mind my sucky writing. Lol.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 4:24 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

David,

I don't know that companies can have it both ways.  On the one hand you're
saying that the cost of sales and marketing justifies the current price of
adaptive products, but then you say that we have to consider the fact that
there is a small market.  The Freedom Scientifics of the world are not
exactly pitching radio and television commercials.  They may be spending a
little money on Internet advertisement, but after a product is launched, do
you really see that many ads competing for business?  If we can agree that
the government is an adaptive company's largest customer, I think we could
agree there is something to be said for customer loyalty, a loyalty whose
need for extravagant sales and marketing is minimal.  I would argue that it
is blind people themselves who carry the bulk of the marketing through their
blogs, podcasts and list posts.

Where does profit measure into your logic model?  You can't possibly think
the money is all being spent on sales, marketing and support.  By the way,
the support at Freedom Scientific isn't exactly scientific.  Too many times
I have found better help on the lists than I have from their
representatives.  This is, of course, not true across the board.  There are
a couple of great guys over there, but my point is that we should not
minimize the amount the executives are pocketing at our expense.  Would
Wafra Partners have bought Freedom Scientific if it did not see something to
gain from the purchase?  Here here for capitalism, but surely these
executives must know that better products would also mean greater demand.

I don't know how much it costs to develop a single notetaker.  I think they
could have made a better Pac Mate seeing as how all they did was transplant
an existing operating system and screen reader.  I think JAWS 11 could have
had more to it than the Research It feature.  What I do know is that
companies like Freedom Scientific and Humanware have a development roadmap.
We may be in the dark about what may lie in three upgrades from now, but
their engineers know what they're going to consist of.  If what you say is
true that the money is comparable to the cost of what it takes to get the
product out, then I think consumers have every right to put pressure on the
companies to speed up those roadmaps.

A couple of computer science students have been asking Humanware to release
a public version of the SDK so that they can release their own applications
to extend the functionality of the new Apex.  Humanware has said it would
only sell the SDK to companies, and from what I understand, these prices are
not low.  What does that tell you about the company's interest in extending
development?

I do not mean to oversimplify the problem.  I also do not mean to trivialize
the contributions of adaptive developers.  I would like to see opportunities
for more working professionals to afford the technology.  If, however, I and
others are going to be expected to shell out hundreds, sometimes thousands,
of dollars to get the latest software release or hardware upgrades, we want
more for our hard-earned money.  Consumer satisfaction is also part of that
capitalism monster, and for too long we have been given bits and pieces and
have been expected to be satisfied.

Talk to us a little more about this subsidy program.  You may be on to
something.  I hope to get my little group of interested people into action
here in the next couple of weeks.  Part of it is finding the time to
coordinate it all between a full-time job and running a part-time business.
My group have their own schedules to juggle, but I really am confident about
the outcomes.  We're not going to fail on account of lack of hard work.

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 9:12 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag

Joe:

No one likes expensive devices and software.  However, just objecting to the
expense doesn't change what the company has to pay to develop and market a
product.  A lot of the cost is in the marketing, sales, and support of a
product -- if we could figure a way to bring those costs down, it might
help.  The numbers also hurt us -- that is relatively speaking, it isn't a
large market, so there just aren't economies of scale.  One of the most
successful AT devices of all times is the Stream.  I don't know how many
Humanware has sold, although I have heard in the 12,000 to 15,000 range,
which seems about right t0o me.  Apple probably sells 100,000 iPods a month
-- that is what I mean by economies of scale.

Can or should a company set up a financing program.  Well, it is nice, but
easier to do for software, because the actual costs are not great, so you
don't actually have to front money.  With hardware, the company has to
actually build something -- which m4eans buying the parts etc.  So we
generally just see financing of software by companies themselves.


I personally think the government should subsidize purchases, or the
companies, to make things cheaper.  Otherwise I don't know how it will
happen.

Dave

At 09:30 AM 2/3/2010, you wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>You're an excellent person to answer some of these questions,
given your
>diverse background.  These are not challenges to your message. 
 Rather, I'm
>trying to get a better sense of the landscape.
>
>1. If you agree there are many people who cannot afford the
technology they
>need, why is it unfair to criticize developers for maintaining
high price
>tags for their products?  In your experience, is it completely
unfeasible to
>ask companies to run a financing program similar to that GW
Micro offers for
>its Window Eyes product?
>
>2. If the products are expensive to develop, why are consumers
not receiving
>more for their investment?  This sounds like a contradiction
in itself, but
>one would suppose that if updates and upgrades take time to
release, why
>aren't releases aiming to compete with mainstream devices?  8
gigs of memory
>is appreciated and a long step from the previous capacity of Braille 
>notetakers, but one could purchase a netbook with 20 times the
capacity at
>20 times less than the cost of a Braille notetaker.
>
>To clarify, I am not making government agencies the enemy.  I
am holding
>developers fully responsible for developing products that will
largely be
>marketed to government agencies.  In an age where government
employees have
>better computer systems at home than they do at work, it makes
sense that
>government agencies are overlooking the fact that the
technology they are
>dishing out thousands of dollars for is not meeting its full
potential.  In
>a normal market developers would develop products according to
the needs of
>the consumers.  Instead, we have a market where consumers can
voice their
>opinions and hope that their feedback will be filtered through
agencies like
>the IRS, who are primarily responsible for Freedom Scientific producing 
>40-cell Braille displays.  Adaptive technology companies make large 
>announcements about new products, get the customer base in a frenzy and 
>count on this customer base to pressure agencies into purchasing the 
>equipment.  There is something wrong with this picture.
>
>I appreciate the work developers have done to keep blind
people in the loop.
>No one will deny that their products have made careers
possible, but I think
>there needs to be a real voice from consumers that is heard
and responded
>to.  The legislation concerning the technology bill of rights
is one method,
>but here again we are relying on policymakers to act on our behalf.
>
>Given my background in professional fundraising, I would like
to convene a
>team of people to help me approach companies about setting up
a fund to help
>professionals obtain the technology they need to make their daily work 
>possible.  Yet, I do not think this is the first priority.  Such a step 
>would suggest we are okay with the current price structure and
mostly lack
>of financing opportunities.
>
>Anyway, it's a rant, but I've already collected a score of
personal stories
>from people who disagree with your opinion.  Nevertheless, you
seem to have
>a well-rounded perspective on this issue and hope you can
provide further
>insight.
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the 
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:52 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>Max,  You are right in some of your conclusions -- but not in others.  
>You are right that there are many individuals who can't afford the 
>technology they need or could use.
>
>However, you seem to be making the Assistive Technology developers, and 
>government agencies the enemy.  This is not the case.  I have been on 
>all sides of the fence, individual, technology developer, and work for 
>a state agency.
>
>It is not like the defense industry, the government doesn't give 
>manufacturers big open-ended, cost plus contracts.  Yes, they buy 
>stuff, but at the going price, or in come cases less because they can 
>negotiate discounts due to volume.  They are not the enemy here.
>
>Secondly, all this stuff is expensive to develop -- I suspect more then 
>you realize.
>
>Yes, a way to help individuals acquire technology is needed, but the 
>solution isn't to make the government, or developers your enemy.
>
>David Andrews
>
>At 10:45 PM 2/2/2010, you wrote:
> >Dear list,
> >
> >I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive 
> >technology.  While you're in college you might receive
>assistance from your
> >rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some
>assistance after you
> >find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes 
> >directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have
>had to settle
> >for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.
>But, that's
> >the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who
>cannot afford
> >this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public
>attention to
> >this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether
>or not you
> >think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views
>to myself.
> >If there is a high number of people unable to tap into
>emerging software
> >simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I 
> >understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to
>develop.  Yet, it
> >seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant
>government contracts
> >that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200
for a device
> >that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform
>completely on par
> >with its mainstream counterparts.
> >
> >At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet
>it's something
> >I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
> >
> >Looking forward to your input,
> >
> >Joe Orozco
> >
> >"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the 
> >crowd."--Max Lucado
> >


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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 14:00:05 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 06:00:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
In-Reply-To: <004901caa82a$bf4e4130$0201a8c0@Serene>
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com>
	<003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com>
	<001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<76B0FDD2CBB44E8E8B78C5E2DD3C0C10@raniaPC>
	<e5a820711002070014j2d6ddd02ke8c04d2428c69552@mail.gmail.com>
	<004901caa82a$bf4e4130$0201a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002080600w6e2f37a0u45e1b76458543743@mail.gmail.com>

hey all.
  Serina, I didn't know you had a daughter lol.
 While it may be the  case that you do (or not). I am wondering if you
can't just  make the changes on the  website, not the moble website.
  just a thought.
  Darian.

On 2/7/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> Thanks.  I hate the regular site!  I guess, editing that part will have to
> wait till my computer geneous brother comes home next weekend for a visit.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>
>
>>I don't think you can edit that part from the mobile site....have to
>> do it from the regular one unfortunately.
>>
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 2/7/10, Rania <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I just edit my profile from the regular site.
>>> Rania,
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Serena
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:18 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>
>>> Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of the
>>> profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when I looked
>>> at
>>> "help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was that you have to
>>> log
>>> in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean you can't edit it from the
>>> mobile site?  Or only that you can't use your cell phone to do it?  (This
>>> doesn't apply to me anyway.)
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot!
>>>> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
>>>> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
>>>> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
>>>> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>>>>
>>>> Kerri
>>>>
>>>> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
>>>>> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the
>>>>> regular
>>>>> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list
>>>>> you
>>>>> as
>>>>> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>>>>>
>>>>> Serena
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>>>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>>>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>>>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>>>>> seems to me.
>>>>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>>>>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I
>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>>>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to correct this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Serena
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
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>>> n.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Mon Feb  8 15:29:11 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:29:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
References: <00f201caa5da$073fdd80$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002041858m32863e6etdf62073e82497d2b@mail.gmail.com><003801caa755$90a67fd0$0201a8c0@Serene><e5a820711002061639v2c2a2feo5d751f2b2524ac5c@mail.gmail.com><001901caa793$62f7f990$0201a8c0@Serene><76B0FDD2CBB44E8E8B78C5E2DD3C0C10@raniaPC><e5a820711002070014j2d6ddd02ke8c04d2428c69552@mail.gmail.com><004901caa82a$bf4e4130$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<409c235c1002080600w6e2f37a0u45e1b76458543743@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006101caa8d3$77137490$0201a8c0@Serene>

lol, I don't have a daughter.  Why can't I make the change on the regular 
site?  Simple ... I absolutely hate the regular site!  Maybe, I have too old 
a version of Jaws or maybe, I just don't have the pacience to deal with all 
the graphics and tons of links on every page that have nothing to do with my 
profile!

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer


> hey all.
>  Serina, I didn't know you had a daughter lol.
> While it may be the  case that you do (or not). I am wondering if you
> can't just  make the changes on the  website, not the moble website.
>  just a thought.
>  Darian.
>
> On 2/7/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Thanks.  I hate the regular site!  I guess, editing that part will have 
>> to
>> wait till my computer geneous brother comes home next weekend for a 
>> visit.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:14 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>
>>
>>>I don't think you can edit that part from the mobile site....have to
>>> do it from the regular one unfortunately.
>>>
>>> Kerri
>>>
>>> On 2/7/10, Rania <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I just edit my profile from the regular site.
>>>> Rania,
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Serena
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:18 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of the
>>>> profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when I 
>>>> looked
>>>> at
>>>> "help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was that you have to
>>>> log
>>>> in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean you can't edit it from the
>>>> mobile site?  Or only that you can't use your cell phone to do it? 
>>>> (This
>>>> doesn't apply to me anyway.)
>>>>
>>>> Serena
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a lot!
>>>>> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself
>>>>> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
>>>>> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
>>>>> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>>>>>
>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I got a
>>>>>> sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct relation, it
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> work.  I ended up getting him to list me as his sister,using the
>>>>>> regular
>>>>>> site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, you can tell your mom how to list
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> her daughter in her profile and then you can confirm that this is 
>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Serena
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>>>>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>>>>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>>>>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>>>>>> seems to me.
>>>>>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When 
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd 
>>>>>>>> selected
>>>>>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody
>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> to correct this?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Serena
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>>>> om
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>>>> n.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>>>> om
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>>>> n.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai
>>>> l.com
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 
>>>> 02/06/10
>>>> 11:35:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 15:44:57 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:44:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA Question
Message-ID: <4AF8DB9F452845C1AC47A6EA8BB4D566@hometwxakonvzn>

I resently installed NVDA, and I have a question concerning it. When I turn on my computer, Jaw automatically comes up speaking. Is their a way to make NVDA do the same thing? RJ

From corbbo at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 17:07:00 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:07:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FYI on CLEP
Message-ID: <4ed9a39a1002080907m17102da2mde65d61a50d422c4@mail.gmail.com>

I received this from the folks at CLEP today. I sent a reply asking about
screen readers and what "comparable documentation" we should expect to
provide, since IEPs are only provided to K-12 students.
-Corbb


This communication is in response to your e-mail inquiry regarding
accommodations available to visually impaired test takers during CLEP exams.
CLEP is committed to working with test takers with special needs. Only
students with documented hearing, learning, physical, or visual disabilities
are eligible to receive testing accommodations. Contact a CLEP test center
prior to registration to ensure that the accommodation you need is
available. If you do not attend the testing institution, you must submit an
Individualized Education Plan (IEP) from your score recipient institution,
or comparable documentation, to the test center. Each test center sets its
own guidelines for submitting documentation and approving accommodations.

Testing accommodations that may be provided with appropriate disability
documentation include:

Zoom Text (screen magnification)
Modifiable screen colors
Use of a reader or amanuensis
Scripts (for language exams)
Extended time
Untimed rest breaks

If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail at
clep at info.collegeboard.org. Alternatively, our toll free number is
800.257.9558. Agents are available from 8 AM to 6 PMeastern time, Monday
through Friday. Any agent would be happy to assist you.

We appreciate your business.

Sincerely,

CLEP Services

From trev.saunders at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 17:45:18 2010
From: trev.saunders at gmail.com (trev.saunders at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:45:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NVDA Question
In-Reply-To: <4AF8DB9F452845C1AC47A6EA8BB4D566@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <4AF8DB9F452845C1AC47A6EA8BB4D566@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <E1NeXfi-0005iJ-Cc@main>

Hi,

yes, it's some where in the nvda  prefrences brought up with nvda+n.

Trev


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 18:40:49 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 10:40:49 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
In-Reply-To: <409c235c1002080600w6e2f37a0u45e1b76458543743@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FE2C8151A04E434CA447873CE20552B1@sarahcomp>

Or try http://lite.facebook.com that is a usable site and I do use it all
the time.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Darian Smith
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 6:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer

hey all.
  Serina, I didn't know you had a daughter lol.
 While it may be the  case that you do (or not). I am wondering if you can't
just  make the changes on the  website, not the moble website.
  just a thought.
  Darian.

On 2/7/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
> Thanks.  I hate the regular site!  I guess, editing that part will 
> have to wait till my computer geneous brother comes home next weekend for
a visit.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 3:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>
>
>>I don't think you can edit that part from the mobile site....have to  
>>do it from the regular one unfortunately.
>>
>> Kerri
>>
>> On 2/7/10, Rania <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I just edit my profile from the regular site.
>>> Rania,
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Serena
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 5:18 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>
>>> Does anybody know how to edit the "education and work" section of 
>>> the profile?  There is no link for it on the mobile sight and, when 
>>> I looked at "help," it didn't really help at all.  All it said was 
>>> that you have to log in from a computer to do it.  Does this mean 
>>> you can't edit it from the mobile site?  Or only that you can't use 
>>> your cell phone to do it?  (This doesn't apply to me anyway.)
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 7:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot!
>>>> I may do that....though she isn't much of a facebook user herself 
>>>> lol....I  just want it for my profile more than anything lol.
>>>> But I may try this....it's a good idea thanks!
>>>> Hopefully they get the site fixed soon!
>>>>
>>>> Kerri
>>>>
>>>> On 2/6/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> I think there's some flaw in the m.facebook.com site ... When I 
>>>>> got a sighted person to try putting my bro in w/ the correct 
>>>>> relation, it didn't work.  I ended up getting him to list me as 
>>>>> his sister,using the regular site, so I can confirm it.  Maybe, 
>>>>> you can tell your mom how to list you as her daughter in her 
>>>>> profile and then you can confirm that this is true.
>>>>>
>>>>> Serena
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" <kerrik2006 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Ntional Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] to all who use m.facebook.com on trhe computer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have the same problem. I tried to enter my Moms name as she has a
>>>>>> facebook account and it keeps putting her as my brother.
>>>>>> I have no idea how to change this...there doesn't seem a way to
>>>>>> properly select the right relation...or at least that's the way it
>>>>>> seems to me.
>>>>>> Hopefully someone else will have another idea as I would also like to
>>>>>> have my siblings/family on my profile too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kerri
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/4/10, Serena <serenacucco at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To all those who use m.facebook.com on your computer ... Many of my
>>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>> put their siblings in their profile, so I decided to try it.  When I
>>>>>>> went
>>>>>>> into the family area, I wrote my bro's name and thaught I'd selected
>>>>>>> "brother" as the relation.  When I was done, however, I saw that he
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> put in my profile as my daughter.  I'm using Jaws 7.0  Does anybody
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to correct this?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Serena
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>>> n.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
>>> n.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2672 - Release Date: 02/06/10
>>> 11:35:00
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c
om
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co
m
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From inland2wards at att.net  Mon Feb  8 20:29:07 2010
From: inland2wards at att.net (Anne Ward)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 12:29:07 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Discrimination in Oakland
Message-ID: <C72B9ABF2B5344DC876878BC22B0E3C0@dennisPC>

This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to distribute it widely.

Anne Ward



Discrimination in Oakland?

 

Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she had to "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East Bay ParaTransit bus.  The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.  Marvelena's status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was her traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing eye dog.

 

To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray came to my house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past president of the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer group.  They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a ride home.  At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside.  I walked out with them to bus number 352.  The driver asked if the dog was going along too.  Marvelena replied that it was.  The driver then decided that her bus was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block down the street.  By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused entry to Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the partially opened door that no one had said anything about a dog and that she had "issues" with dogs.  She said they had to wait for another paratransit  bus to come and take them.  Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the bus with the dog and forced his way through the partially opened door and got on the bus.  The driver slammed the door and wouldn't let Marvelena and Darla on the bus.

 

Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker phone.  That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end the impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus".  I informed the driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they could get away with that.  Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move to the back.  While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get on the bus.  Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another friend were conferring through the open door.  At that point the passenger on the bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and would walk the rest of the way home.  She got off the bus and left.  The driver reported that the passenger had left the bus because of the dog which was a baldfaced lie.  The driver then said that the company was sending another bus to take them home.

 

This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so that we could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights and left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus while the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.  Chris then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there after.

 

One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I explained the situation.  The policeman said something to the effect that it depended on the bus company's policy.  I said that was nonsense.  That it had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law called the ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to public places as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed unaware of the law.

 

Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take them home.  The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two bus drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.

 

Questions that arise:

  1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service animals does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities hire a driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
  2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid of dogs, why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling with service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
  3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the company to know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
  4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She routinely yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move him."  She was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and he moved himself, I did not move him.
  5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of ADA access laws?
 

Issues to note:

  1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not make any noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the driver and lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.

From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 21:07:35 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:07:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Discrimination in Oakland
Message-ID: <4b707c93.0504c00a.2242.ffff8ee1@mx.google.com>

This is a disgrace!  Why would anybody want to discriminate 
against that blind couple?  This is ludicrous.  If I were locked 
in a bus, a dark bus all by myself and didn't know where I was, 
I'd call 911 immediately and get the police in on this.  If I 
were anybody on that bus, I would have said, "What the ... this 
is against the ADA!"
Beth


From alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:19:58 2010
From: alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com (alena roberts)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:19:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Discrimination in Oakland
In-Reply-To: <C72B9ABF2B5344DC876878BC22B0E3C0@dennisPC>
References: <C72B9ABF2B5344DC876878BC22B0E3C0@dennisPC>
Message-ID: <3651E0F5-F4BB-4350-A460-87C63DF68538@gmail.com>

In 2010 this is an unacceptable tragedy. I think what that couple experienced should never happen, especially not on a para transit bus. I think the head of police in Oakland needs to be notified that his officers aren't aware of the law, and the couple should consider bringing a lawsuit against the bus company. 

Alena
On Feb 8, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Anne Ward wrote:

> This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to distribute it widely.
> 
> Anne Ward
> 
> 
> 
> Discrimination in Oakland?
> 
> 
> 
> Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she had to "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East Bay ParaTransit bus.  The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.  Marvelena's status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was her traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing eye dog.
> 
> 
> 
> To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray came to my house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past president of the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer group.  They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a ride home.  At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside.  I walked out with them to bus number 352.  The driver asked if the dog was going along too.  Marvelena replied that it was.  The driver then decided that her bus was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block down the street.  By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused entry to Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the partially opened door that no one had said anything about a dog and that she had "issues" with dogs.  She said they had to wait for another paratransit  bus to come and take them.  Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the bus with the dog and forced his way through the partially opened door and got on the bus.  The driver slammed the door and wouldn't let Marvelena and Darla on the bus.
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker phone.  That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end the impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus".  I informed the driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they could get away with that.  Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move to the back.  While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get on the bus.  Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another friend were conferring through the open door.  At that point the passenger on the bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and would walk the rest of the way home.  She got off the bus and left.  The driver reported that the passenger had left the bus because of the dog which was a baldfaced lie.  The driver then said that the company was sending another bus to take them home.
> 
> 
> 
> This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so that we could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights and left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus while the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.  Chris then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there after.
> 
> 
> 
> One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I explained the situation.  The policeman said something to the effect that it depended on the bus company's policy.  I said that was nonsense.  That it had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law called the ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to public places as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed unaware of the law.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take them home.  The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two bus drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.
> 
> 
> 
> Questions that arise:
> 
>  1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service animals does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities hire a driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>  2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid of dogs, why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling with service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>  3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the company to know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>  4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She routinely yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move him."  She was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and he moved himself, I did not move him.
>  5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of ADA access laws?
> 
> 
> Issues to note:
> 
>  1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not make any noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the driver and lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alena.roberts2282%40gmail.com



From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:24:17 2010
From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:24:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Discrimination in Oakland
References: <C72B9ABF2B5344DC876878BC22B0E3C0@dennisPC>
	<3651E0F5-F4BB-4350-A460-87C63DF68538@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD811EECCF6F4C61A93EAD9EB2B95414@azizapc>

I agree.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "alena roberts" <alena.roberts2282 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Discrimination in Oakland


> In 2010 this is an unacceptable tragedy. I think what that couple 
> experienced should never happen, especially not on a para transit bus. I 
> think the head of police in Oakland needs to be notified that his officers 
> aren't aware of the law, and the couple should consider bringing a lawsuit 
> against the bus company.
>
> Alena
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 12:29 PM, Anne Ward wrote:
>
>> This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to 
>> distribute it widely.
>>
>> Anne Ward
>>
>>
>>
>> Discrimination in Oakland?
>>
>>
>>
>> Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she had to 
>> "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East Bay ParaTransit bus. 
>> The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.  Marvelena's 
>> status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was her 
>> traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing eye 
>> dog.
>>
>>
>>
>> To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray came to 
>> my house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past president 
>> of the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer group. 
>> They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a ride 
>> home.  At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside.  I 
>> walked out with them to bus number 352.  The driver asked if the dog was 
>> going along too.  Marvelena replied that it was.  The driver then decided 
>> that her bus was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block 
>> down the street.  By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and 
>> refused entry to Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the 
>> partially opened door that no one had said anything about a dog and that 
>> she had "issues" with dogs.  She said they had to wait for another 
>> paratransit  bus to come and take them.  Chris said that they had a legal 
>> right to get on the bus with the dog and forced his way through the 
>> partially opened door and got on the bus.  The driver slammed the door 
>> and wouldn't let Marvelena and Darla on the bus.
>>
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker phone. 
>> That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end the 
>> impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus".  I informed 
>> the driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they could 
>> get away with that.  Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move to 
>> the back.  While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get on 
>> the bus.  Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another 
>> friend were conferring through the open door.  At that point the 
>> passenger on the bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and 
>> would walk the rest of the way home.  She got off the bus and left.  The 
>> driver reported that the passenger had left the bus because of the dog 
>> which was a baldfaced lie.  The driver then said that the company was 
>> sending another bus to take them home.
>>
>>
>>
>> This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so that 
>> we could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights and 
>> left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus while 
>> the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.  Chris 
>> then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there after.
>>
>>
>>
>> One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I explained 
>> the situation.  The policeman said something to the effect that it 
>> depended on the bus company's policy.  I said that was nonsense.  That it 
>> had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law called the 
>> ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to public places 
>> as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed unaware of the law.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take them home. 
>> The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two bus 
>> drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.
>>
>>
>>
>> Questions that arise:
>>
>>  1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service animals 
>> does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities hire a 
>> driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>>  2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid of dogs, 
>> why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling with 
>> service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>>  3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the company to 
>> know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>>  4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She routinely 
>> yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move him."  She 
>> was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and he moved 
>> himself, I did not move him.
>>  5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of ADA 
>> access laws?
>>
>>
>> Issues to note:
>>
>>  1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not make any 
>> noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the driver and 
>> lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alena.roberts2282%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com 



From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Mon Feb  8 22:51:13 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:51:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Discrimination in Oakland
Message-ID: <20100208225113.17675.14393@web1.serotek.com>

Anne,

I would like to refer you to our Guide dog Users' division using the 
contact information below. Our Guide Dog Users' President will have 
much more information about what can be done if anything and would have 
more resources to get this issue resolved.

I'm terribly sorry this issue of discrimination took place. Good luck 
to your friends in resolving the issue.

Respectfully,
Jedi

PS. Here is the contact information for the National Association of 
Guide Dog Users.

National Association of Guide Dog Users, a Division of the NFB (NAGDU)
President: Marion Gwizdala
1003 Papaya Drive
Tampa, Florida 33619
Home: 813-626-2789
E-mail: blind411 at verizon.net
Web site: http://www.nfb-nagdu.org/


Original message:
> This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to 
> distribute it widely.

> Anne Ward



> Discrimination in Oakland?



> Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she had 
> to "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East Bay ParaTransit 
> bus.  The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.  
> Marvelena's status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus 
> was her traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her 
> seeing eye dog.



> To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray came to 
> my house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past 
> president of the American Council of the Blind which is a national 
> consumer group.  They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay 
> ParaTransit for a ride home.  At about 9:15 they got a call that their 
> ride was outside.  I walked out with them to bus number 352.  The 
> driver asked if the dog was going along too.  Marvelena replied that it 
> was.  The driver then decided that her bus was not positioned correctly 
> and drove about a half block down the street.  By the time we got to 
> her she was on her cell phone and refused entry to Chris and Marvelena, 
> yelling at them through the partially opened door that no one had said 
> anything about a dog and that she had "issues" with dogs.  She said 
> they had to wait for another paratransit  bus to come and take them.  
> Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the bus with the dog 
> and forced his way thro
>  ugh the partially opened door and got on the bus.  The driver slammed 
> the door and wouldn't let Marvelena and Darla on the bus.



> Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker phone. 
> That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end the 
> impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus".  I informed 
> the driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they 
> could get away with that.  Chris and Marvelena said that she would not 
> move to the back.  While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed 
> to get on the bus.  Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and 
> another friend were conferring through the open door.  At that point 
> the passenger on the bus said that she had had it with waiting so long 
> and would walk the rest of the way home.  She got off the bus and left. 
> The driver reported that the passenger had left the bus because of the 
> dog which was a baldfaced lie.  The driver then said that the company 
> was sending another bus to take them home.



> This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so that 
> we could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights 
> and left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus 
> while the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.  
> Chris then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there after.



> One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I 
> explained the situation.  The policeman said something to the effect 
> that it depended on the bus company's policy.  I said that was 
> nonsense.  That it had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a 
> federal law called the ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right 
> of access to public places as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed 
> unaware of the law.



> Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take them 
> home.  The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two 
> bus drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.



> Questions that arise:

>   1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service 
> animals does a company whose sole clientele are people with 
> disabilities hire a driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>   2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid of 
> dogs, why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling 
> with service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>   3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the company 
> to know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>   4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She routinely 
> yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move him."  
> She was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and he 
> moved himself, I did not move him.
>   5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of ADA 
> access laws?


> Issues to note:

>   1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not make 
> any noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the 
> driver and lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From kc2992a at student.american.edu  Tue Feb  9 01:16:50 2010
From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 20:16:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FYI on CLEP
In-Reply-To: <4ed9a39a1002080907m17102da2mde65d61a50d422c4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ed9a39a1002080907m17102da2mde65d61a50d422c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2fdbeb321002081716w13d3e1fw37b0b7707f5c0d97@mail.gmail.com>

Try sending a letter from the DSS office at your university. AU DSS provides
letters to its students which list the accommodations the student needs for
professors. If GW has something similar, I would send that. I hope you don't
have to send medical records in the end. I took a CLEP in high school, so I
had an IEP then and am not sure what you should do now.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Corbb O'Connor <corbbo at gmail.com> wrote:

> I received this from the folks at CLEP today. I sent a reply asking about
> screen readers and what "comparable documentation" we should expect to
> provide, since IEPs are only provided to K-12 students.
> -Corbb
>
>
> This communication is in response to your e-mail inquiry regarding
> accommodations available to visually impaired test takers during CLEP
> exams.
> CLEP is committed to working with test takers with special needs. Only
> students with documented hearing, learning, physical, or visual
> disabilities
> are eligible to receive testing accommodations. Contact a CLEP test center
> prior to registration to ensure that the accommodation you need is
> available. If you do not attend the testing institution, you must submit an
> Individualized Education Plan (IEP) from your score recipient institution,
> or comparable documentation, to the test center. Each test center sets its
> own guidelines for submitting documentation and approving accommodations.
>
> Testing accommodations that may be provided with appropriate disability
> documentation include:
>
> Zoom Text (screen magnification)
> Modifiable screen colors
> Use of a reader or amanuensis
> Scripts (for language exams)
> Extended time
> Untimed rest breaks
>
> If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail at
> clep at info.collegeboard.org. Alternatively, our toll free number is
> 800.257.9558. Agents are available from 8 AM to 6 PMeastern time, Monday
> through Friday. Any agent would be happy to assist you.
>
> We appreciate your business.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> CLEP Services
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
American University
631 521 3018

From corbbo at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 17:12:30 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:12:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: CLEP
References: <5497009.1265720808323.JavaMail.CLEP@info.collegeboard.com>
Message-ID: <D2100075-D37B-4E2A-9DF4-D051ABAC2349@gmail.com>

JAWS is not available, says CLEP. Hope this helps.

Begin forwarded message:

From: CLEP <CLEP at info.collegeboard.com>
Date: February 9, 2010 8:06:49 AM EST
To: corbbo at gmail.com
Subject: CLEP

Thank you for contacting CLEP.

Unfortunately, JAWS is not an available option for CLEP testing.  
Documentation can be provided by your physician or other medical  
professional.

We hope this information is helpful. If you write to us again, please  
include all previous messages.

Sincerely,
CLEP

Please visit the College Board website at  www.collegeboard.com/clep


Be sure to add @info.collegeboard.com to your address book or safe  
sender list to ensure that you receive e-mail messages from ETS.

JS 7581506

TRACKING NUMBER: A00008878239-00032620156

     -----Original Message-----


     From: corbbo at gmail.com
     Sent: 08 Feb 10 12:05:58
     To:  <clep at info.collegeboard.com>
     Cc:
     Subject: Re: CLEP

     Hello,

Thanks for your message. You mention that ZoomText is available for  
screen
mangnification, but is JAWS available--that is screen reading  
technology on
the computer? Also, I am already in college, and IEPs are only issued  
for
K-12 students. What "comparable" documentation should I expect to have  
to
present?

Thank you,
Corbb O'Connor

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:54 AM, CLEP <CLEP at info.collegeboard.com>  
wrote:

> Dear Corbb O'Connor:
>
> This communication is in response to your e-mail inquiry regarding
> accommodations available to visually impaired test takers during  
> CLEP exams.
> CLEP is committed to working with test takers with special needs. Only
> students with documented hearing, learning, physical, or visual  
> disabilities
> are eligible to receive testing accommodations. Contact a CLEP test  
> center
> prior to registration to ensure that the accommodation you need is
> available. If you do not attend the testing institution, you must  
> submit an
> Individualized Education Plan (IEP) from your score recipient  
> institution,
> or comparable documentation, to the test center. Each test center  
> sets its
> own guidelines for submitting documentation and approving  
> accommodations.
>
> Testing accommodations that may be provided with appropriate  
> disability
> documentation include:
>
> Zoom Text (screen magnification)
> Modifiable screen colors
> Use of a reader or amanuensis
> Scripts (for language exams)
> Extended time
> Untimed rest breaks
>
> If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail at
> clep at info.collegeboard.org. Alternatively, our toll free number is
> 800.257.9558. Agents are available from 8 AM to 6 PMeastern time,  
> Monday
> through Friday. Any agent would be happy to assist you.
>
> We appreciate your business.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> CLEP Services
>
> JS 7581506
>
> TRACKING NUMBER: A00008878239-00032619914
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged  
> or
> confidential information.
> It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even  
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> addressed incorrectly.
> If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not
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> and
> delete it from
> your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.
>
> Thank you for your compliance.
> --------------------------------------------------
>

--------------------------------------------------
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain privileged  
or confidential information.
It is solely for use by the individual for whom it is intended, even  
if addressed incorrectly.
If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender; do not  
disclose, copy, distribute,
or take any action in reliance on the contents of this information;  
and delete it from
your system. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.

Thank you for your compliance.
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From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Tue Feb  9 17:32:50 2010
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:32:50 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: 2010 Archeological Field School Opportunity
Message-ID: <63CA5C1A469B40149AFD93FDFFE074F5@D3DTZP41>

Hello:

     Just in case there are some students interested in archeology I thought 
the following might be of interest.

Regards,
Robert Jaquiss

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Jackson" <michael.jackson at UND.EDU>
To: <ARCH-L at LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:43 AM
Subject: 2010 Archeological Field School Opportunity


> Hello all (and apologies for cross-posting),
>
> Please feel free to share this information with your students, colleagues, 
> and anyone else who might have an interest.
>
> The Department of Anthropology, University of North Dakota, invites 
> students to attend its Archeological Field School in the summer of 2010. 
> The six-week field class is scheduled for 24 May through 2 July 2010. The 
> course is being offered in cooperation with the National Park Service. The 
> field school will be held at the Elbee and Karishta sites, located within 
> the Knife River Indian Villages National Historic Site, Mercer County, ND. 
> This National Historic Site was established in 1974 to preserve over 50 
> archeological sites located near the mouth of the Knife River in 
> west-central North Dakota. The Elbee Site is a multi-component site that 
> contains as many as eight cultural components, the most prominent being a 
> Plains Village occupation dating to A.D. 1520-1630. The site was recently 
> damaged by high water and ice flows in the Knife River, which has exposed 
> features and artifacts along the entire length of the site. Two 
> archeological features are presently hanging out of the cutbank and are 
> slated for excavation this summer. The goal of the 2010 will be salvage as 
> much archeological information as possible, before the features and other 
> parts of the archeological deposit are lost to future erosion.
>
> A geophysical survey of the Elbee site will occur before the field school, 
> in advance of the NPS Midwest Archeological Center's 
> Geophysical/Archeological Prospection Workshop. Our students will have the 
> opportunity to observe the workshop and gain exposure to this ever 
> expanding field of archeology. Students will receive hands-on training and 
> experience in the traditional areas of archeological research: the use of 
> different kinds of field equipment and techniques for excavation and 
> artifact recovery, site mapping, documentation, and record keeping. Use of 
> modern electronic mapping techniques and instruments will be demonstrated, 
> including an electronic total station and global positioning system (GPS) 
> receiver.
>
> Field school students will have the opportunity to conduct excavations at 
> the Karishta site, a nearby archeological site within the Knife River 
> Indian Villages National Historic Site, which has also been affected by 
> river erosion. If time permits, students will have the opportunity to do 
> archeological survey work elsewhere in the Knife River drainage of western 
> North Dakota.
>
> For more information and application materials, please visit our website:
> http://www.und.edu/dept/undar/fieldschool/fieldschool.html
>
> Thank you for your consideration.
>
> Best regards,
> Mike Jackson
> ------------------------------------
> Michael A. Jackson, M.A.
> Associate Research Archeologist
>
> Anthropology Research
> University of North Dakota
> Babcock Hall Room 301
> 236 Centennial Drive Stop 7094
> Grand Forks ND 58202-7094
>
> 701-777-4081 (phone)
> 701-777-2435 (fax)
> 701-740-1621 (cell)
> michael.jackson at und.edu
> www.und.edu/dept/undar
> ------------------------------------
>
> Subscription options and archives available:
> http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/arch-l.html 



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Feb  9 21:20:20 2010
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:20:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] looking for California blind student planning to attend
	law school in the next couple of years
Message-ID: <FA069B7B2B774BB8B3DC94B3E851536B@labarre>

Greetings:

We are looking to speak with a blind/legally blind college student who resides in California who plans on attending law school in California or elsewhere in the next two years.  This student or students should be planning to take the law school  admissions test (LSAT) some time in the next year and a half or so.  This request would also apply to a blind/legally blind Californian who may have a under graduate  degree and also plans to take the LSAT in the next year and a half or so.  Please feel free to distribute this message widely.  When responding, please email me at slabarre at labarrelaw.com and Anna Levine, alevine at dralegal.org, at Disability Rights Advocates.  Additionally, if you have responded to a similar message in the past, we kindly ask you to respond this time as well.  Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.

LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
www.labarrelaw.com (website)

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521.

From lilrichie411 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 10 03:56:22 2010
From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 21:56:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Conference call
In-Reply-To: <002801caaa04$19a734e0$4cf59ea0$@com>
References: <002801caaa04$19a734e0$4cf59ea0$@com>
Message-ID: <ca301f5e1002091956l49f585e9h24c7798caa1e6f9b@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jean Rauschenbach <rauschjc at gmail.com>
Date: 9 February 2010 21:49
Subject: Conference call
To: Minnesota Association of Blind Students List <mn-abs at nfbnet.org>, Amanda
Swanson <swanson_amanda at hotmail.com>, Amy Hatten <amykhatten at hotmail.com>,
Anthony LLawlor <alawlor50 at hotmail.com>, Betsy cyson <fledchen at gmail.com>,
Bev Collins <coll0366 at gmail.com>, "Erickson, Mark " <swifthawk57 at gmail.com>,
"Gittens, Michele" <mdm3g at aol.com>, Jean Rauschenbach <rauschjc at gmail.com>,
Jeffrey Thompson <JThompson6835 at q.com>, "Kamara, Kotumu " <kama0087 at umn.edu>,
Katlyn May Kress <leaderdog.faith at q.com>, "Langton, Deanna" <
drlangton1 at gmail.com>, "Lombard, JoAnne " <jlombard1951 at yahoo.com>, Lori
Durako <lori.durako at gmail.com>, Muzamil Yahya <muzamil.yahya at gmail.com>,
"Niska, Matthias" <mlniska04 at yahoo.com>, Reed Hoffman <
rhoffman58707 at yahoo.com>, "Richardson, Jordan " <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>,
"Samuelson, Bryce" <samue099 at umn.edu>, "Xiong, Lao " <laoxiong69 at hotmail.com
>



Greetings all,
Jordan Richardson has managed to get Marc Maurer's brother
Mat to chime in during our Conference call Wed, Feb 10 -
that's tomorrow if you are getting this tonight or today if
you are getting it tomorrow - Wednesday.

Not sure what he is going to talk about, but if you haver
met him, you know it is going to be great. I met him when I
was at BLIND Inc and he was a laugh riot. But maybe he will
put on his professional face. Come and be surprised.

The call is at 8:00 pm Wed, Feb 10.
Call 712-451-6000
At the prompt enter 6227   (NABS)

Piece of cake.  See you all there.

Jean Rauschenbach
2nd VP MNABS





-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From jaedpo96 at aol.com  Wed Feb 10 21:05:40 2010
From: jaedpo96 at aol.com (Polansky)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:05:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Conference call
In-Reply-To: <ca301f5e1002091956l49f585e9h24c7798caa1e6f9b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ca301f5e1002091956l49f585e9h24c7798caa1e6f9b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC78ABEF2A6909-AE4-27F3@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Jordan. It's Jason. My Mom sead that I could listen to the 
conference call tonight. I would like to know what time zoan you are 
talking about. I'm guessing that is 8 P.M. central because you are in 
Minnesota. I am in Maryland witch is eastern time. We are snowed in. We 
got about 2 feet last weekend, and we are getting over a foot today. I 
can hear the wind roaring from inside my room. My parents decided not 
to go to work today because the roads are very bad. We are off from 
school all this week. We are lucky that we have power, because a lot of 
places in our area don't have power. They sead on T.V. that this winter 
could be a record snowfall. We got 20 inches of snow just before 
Christmas, but that time it wasn't as windy. How is school going? It is 
going well for me. At the end of the week we will have used 9 snow 
days. I think that they are taking 2 days from our spring break, and 
adding 2 days to the end of the school year. Five of the snow days are 
built in to the calendar. We've never used 9 snow days before as long 
as I can remember. I think last year we used 4 or 5. I will talk to you 
on the conference call.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; WABS listserv <wabs at nfbwis.org>
Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 10:56 pm
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Conference call

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jean Rauschenbach <rauschjc at gmail.com>
Date: 9 February 2010 21:49
Subject: Conference call
To: Minnesota Association of Blind Students List <mn-abs at nfbnet.org>, 
Amanda
Swanson <swanson_amanda at hotmail.com>, Amy Hatten 
<amykhatten at hotmail.com>,
Anthony LLawlor <alawlor50 at hotmail.com>, Betsy cyson 
<fledchen at gmail.com>,
Bev Collins <coll0366 at gmail.com>, "Erickson, Mark " 
<swifthawk57 at gmail.com>,
"Gittens, Michele" <mdm3g at aol.com>, Jean Rauschenbach 
<rauschjc at gmail.com>,
Jeffrey Thompson <JThompson6835 at q.com>, "Kamara, Kotumu " 
<kama0087 at umn.edu>,
Katlyn May Kress <leaderdog.faith at q.com>, "Langton, Deanna" <
drlangton1 at gmail.com>, "Lombard, JoAnne " <jlombard1951 at yahoo.com>, Lori
Durako <lori.durako at gmail.com>, Muzamil Yahya <muzamil.yahya at gmail.com>,
"Niska, Matthias" <mlniska04 at yahoo.com>, Reed Hoffman <
rhoffman58707 at yahoo.com>, "Richardson, Jordan " 
<lilrichie411 at gmail.com>,
"Samuelson, Bryce" <samue099 at umn.edu>, "Xiong, Lao " 
<laoxiong69 at hotmail.com
>



Greetings all,
Jordan Richardson has managed to get Marc Maurer's brother
Mat to chime in during our Conference call Wed, Feb 10 -
that's tomorrow if you are getting this tonight or today if
you are getting it tomorrow - Wednesday.

Not sure what he is going to talk about, but if you haver
met him, you know it is going to be great. I met him when I
was at BLIND Inc and he was a laugh riot. But maybe he will
put on his professional face. Come and be surprised.

The call is at 8:00 pm Wed, Feb 10.
Call 712-451-6000
At the prompt enter 6227   (NABS)

Piece of cake.  See you all there.

Jean Rauschenbach
2nd VP MNABS





--
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com




From AZNOR99 at aol.com  Wed Feb 10 22:23:30 2010
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com (AZNOR99 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:23:30 EST
Subject: [nabs-l] Federal Judge Orders the National Conference of Bar
	Examine...
Message-ID: <140b5.508b7d83.38a48be2@aol.com>


 
Examiners to Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law  
School Graduate



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT:   
Chris Danielsen, National Federation of the Blind, 
(410) 659-9314,  ext. 2330  
Scott LaBarre, LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., (303)  
504-5979  
Daniel Goldstein, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP,  
(410) 962-1030  

Anna Levine, Disability Rights 
Advocates,  (510) 665-8644  



Federal Judge Orders the National  

Conference of Bar Examiners 
to Provide Individualized Testing  Accommodations 


to Blind Law School Graduate

San  

Francisco, California (February 5, 2010): A 

federal court has  ruled that the National Conference of Bar Examiners 
(NCBE) 

will cause  a blind law school graduate irreparable harm unless it provides 
her  

the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to take two  exams 
required 

to become a member of the State Bar of  California.  The court issued its 
ruling in an order 

granting the  law school graduate’s motion for preliminary injunction on 

Thursday,  February 4, 2010.  The 

court’s ruling allows the plaintiff,  Stephanie Enyart, to take the 
February 2010 

Multistate Bar Examination  (MBE) and March 2010 Multistate Professional 

Responsibility  Examination (MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the 

assistive  technology software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading 
(JAWS)  

and screen magnification (ZoomText). 

Dr. Marc Maurer,  President of the National Federation 

of the Blind, said: “The National  Federation of the Blind is extremely 
pleased 

with the ruling in this  case.  Law 

and equity simply do not permit the NCBE to dictate a  one-size-fits-all 
solution 

for all bar candidates with  disabilities.  We hope that this ruling will 
cause the 

NCBE to  think long and hard before it denies the requested accommodations 
of  

applicants to take its examinations.” 

The plaintiff,  

Stephanie Enyart, said: “A little 

over a year ago I sent my  first request for accommodations on the March 
2009 

MPRE, and tonight I  can go to sleep knowing when and how I can effectively 
take 

the exams  to fulfill my dreams.” 

Anna Levine of Disability Rights  

Advocates, an attorney representing the plaintiff, said: "I  

hope that our hard-fought victory here will send a message to testing  

organizations that they need to comply with the ADA and provide each  
individual test taker with 

a disability the accommodations that he or  she needs to demonstrate his or 
her 

actual knowledge, skills, and  abilities."  

The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the  

NCBE’s refusal, on multiple occasions during the past year, to allow  Ms. 
Enyart 

to use the same technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has  used on 
university 

and law school exams and in various jobs and  internships.  The suit 
charged that the NCBE violated 

the  Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California’s Unruh Civil 
Rights Act  by denying 

accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE.   



NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal  

obligations to Ms. Enyart by offering alternative accommodations, such  as 
a 

human reader, notwithstanding evidence that these alternatives  did not, in 
fact, 

accommodate Ms. Enyart’s disability.  In  rejecting NCBE’s argument, the 
court’s 

ruling paves the way for other  individuals prevented from pursuing their 

professional dreams by high  stakes testing providers who take a rigid 
approach 

to disability  accommodations.  



The plaintiff is represented with the  support of the 

National Federation of the Blind by LaBarre Law  Offices, P.C., in Denver, 
Colorado, and by 

Brown, Goldstein &  Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, Maryland.  The plaintiff is 
further represented  by 

Disability Rights Advocates, a nonprofit law center that  specializes in 
civil 

rights cases on behalf of persons with  disabilities, based in Berkeley, 
California.   


###

About the National Federation of 

the  Blind

With more than 50,000 members, the 

National Federation of  the Blind (NFB) is the largest and most influential 

membership  organization of blind people in the United 

States.  

The  NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education,  

research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and  

self-confidence.  It is the leading 

force in the  blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  
In January  2004 the NFB opened the 

National Federation of the Blind Jernigan  Institute, the first research 
and 

training center in the United  

States for the blind led by the blind.   


From lilrichie411 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 00:00:18 2010
From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:00:18 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Conference call
In-Reply-To: <8CC78ABEF2A6909-AE4-27F3@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
References: <ca301f5e1002091956l49f585e9h24c7798caa1e6f9b@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CC78ABEF2A6909-AE4-27F3@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <ca301f5e1002101600pc1cc517l12397e297ae7c12c@mail.gmail.com>

Jason,

Yes.  It will be 8 eastern.  As they say on TV- 9/8c.

Jordan
2nd VP, MnABS

P.S.  Yes I am great.  School is busy.  You are lucky to get snowdays seeing
as my school district did not ever call school days.



On 10 February 2010 15:05, Polansky <jaedpo96 at aol.com> wrote:

> Hi Jordan. It's Jason. My Mom sead that I could listen to the conference
> call tonight. I would like to know what time zoan you are talking about. I'm
> guessing that is 8 P.M. central because you are in Minnesota. I am in
> Maryland witch is eastern time. We are snowed in. We got about 2 feet last
> weekend, and we are getting over a foot today. I can hear the wind roaring
> from inside my room. My parents decided not to go to work today because the
> roads are very bad. We are off from school all this week. We are lucky that
> we have power, because a lot of places in our area don't have power. They
> sead on T.V. that this winter could be a record snowfall. We got 20 inches
> of snow just before Christmas, but that time it wasn't as windy. How is
> school going? It is going well for me. At the end of the week we will have
> used 9 snow days. I think that they are taking 2 days from our spring break,
> and adding 2 days to the end of the school year. Five of the snow days are
> built in to the calendar. We've never used 9 snow days before as long as I
> can remember. I think last year we used 4 or 5. I will talk to you on the
> conference call.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jordan Richardson <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>;
> WABS listserv <wabs at nfbwis.org>
> Sent: Tue, Feb 9, 2010 10:56 pm
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Conference call
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jean Rauschenbach <rauschjc at gmail.com>
> Date: 9 February 2010 21:49
> Subject: Conference call
> To: Minnesota Association of Blind Students List <mn-abs at nfbnet.org>,
> Amanda
> Swanson <swanson_amanda at hotmail.com>, Amy Hatten <amykhatten at hotmail.com>,
> Anthony LLawlor <alawlor50 at hotmail.com>, Betsy cyson <fledchen at gmail.com>,
> Bev Collins <coll0366 at gmail.com>, "Erickson, Mark " <swifthawk57 at gmail.com
> >,
> "Gittens, Michele" <mdm3g at aol.com>, Jean Rauschenbach <rauschjc at gmail.com
> >,
> Jeffrey Thompson <JThompson6835 at q.com>, "Kamara, Kotumu " <
> kama0087 at umn.edu>,
> Katlyn May Kress <leaderdog.faith at q.com>, "Langton, Deanna" <
> drlangton1 at gmail.com>, "Lombard, JoAnne " <jlombard1951 at yahoo.com>, Lori
> Durako <lori.durako at gmail.com>, Muzamil Yahya <muzamil.yahya at gmail.com>,
> "Niska, Matthias" <mlniska04 at yahoo.com>, Reed Hoffman <
> rhoffman58707 at yahoo.com>, "Richardson, Jordan " <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>,
> "Samuelson, Bryce" <samue099 at umn.edu>, "Xiong, Lao " <
> laoxiong69 at hotmail.com
>
>>
>>
>
>
> Greetings all,
> Jordan Richardson has managed to get Marc Maurer's brother
> Mat to chime in during our Conference call Wed, Feb 10 -
> that's tomorrow if you are getting this tonight or today if
> you are getting it tomorrow - Wednesday.
>
> Not sure what he is going to talk about, but if you haver
> met him, you know it is going to be great. I met him when I
> was at BLIND Inc and he was a laugh riot. But maybe he will
> put on his professional face. Come and be surprised.
>
> The call is at 8:00 pm Wed, Feb 10.
> Call 712-451-6000
> At the prompt enter 6227   (NABS)
>
> Piece of cake.  See you all there.
>
> Jean Rauschenbach
> 2nd VP MNABS
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jordan Richardson
> 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
> lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
> --Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jaedpo96%40aol.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From ujjvala.ballal at inclusiveplanet.com  Thu Feb 11 06:25:08 2010
From: ujjvala.ballal at inclusiveplanet.com (Ujjvala Ballal)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:55:08 +0530
Subject: [nabs-l] Help create a Braille voting template in South Africa!
Message-ID: <f163d67a1002102225w2456f5a9s287736af535bcc26@mail.gmail.com>

South Africa National Council for the Blind (SANCB) in collaboration
with Inclusive Planet <http://www.inclusiveplanet.com/> are looking
for your feedback on how we can create a Braille Voting template. The
South African National Council for the Blind (SANCB) team have worked
tirelessly over the last few months to come up with a design for a
Braille Voting Template which would enable secret ballot for blind
people in South Africa. Before implementing it, they wanted to get the
opinions from people across the globe, so that the best possible
solution comes out.

This need led to the birth of “Inclusive Ideas”
<http://www.inclusiveplanet.com/en/inclusiveideas> emerged. A platform
where we can collectively brainstorm. A platform where this global
exchange of ideas is possible. A platform where you can come, share
your idea. As simple as that! On one hand it enables us to leverage
the diversity of our members on Inclusive Planet from over 78
countries; and on the other hand it is also open to anyone across the
world who wants to contribute towards inclusiveness.

The possibilities of this platform are endless… we could help create
Braille voting templates in South Africa, help sighted people
understand the challenges faced by a visually impaired person, change
government policy or create a movement to make all websites
accessible!

We look forward to unlocking the power of collaboration through the
World Wide Web! So bring us your problems and bring us your ideas. We
will stir it all together and we are sure that something wonderful
will emerge!

www.inclusiveplanet.com is a website where the global print-impaired
community can share accessible content of all sorts i.e. books,
journals, class-notes, articles, blogs, audio etc. We currently have
3000 members from 76 countries sharing over 17,000 files. We have just
launched the Spanish version and will be launching the Arabic and
Turkish versions soon.

I would request members from different countries on this list to spare
a few minutes to go through the proposal and share your thoughts on
the SANCB Braille Voting Template Challenge.

You need NOT become a member of Inclusive Planet to comment. Non
members can just comment by clicking on the "Add Comment" button.
Please share your ideas for the sancb braille voting template
challenge <http://www.inclusiveplanet.com/group/453603>


Let’s create an Inclusive Planet! Together, there are no barriers.

Regards,
Ujjvala

Ujjvala.ballal at inclusiveplanet.com

www.twitter.com/inclusiveplanet

From JFreeh at nfb.org  Thu Feb 11 11:43:33 2010
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:43:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Federal Judge Orders the National Conference of Bar
 Examiners to Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations to Blind Law
 School Graduate
Message-ID: <auto-000139252193@mailfront1.g2host.com>



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen, National Federation of the Blind, (410) 659-9314, ext. 2330

Scott LaBarre, LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., (303) 504-5979

Daniel Goldstein, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, (410) 962-1030

Anna Levine, Disability Rights Advocates, (510) 665-8644



Federal Judge Orders the National Conference of Bar Examiners
to Provide Individualized Testing Accommodations

to Blind Law School Graduate



San Francisco, California (February 5, 2010):  A federal court has 
ruled that the National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) will cause 
a blind law school graduate irreparable harm unless it provides her 
the technology-based testing accommodations she needs to take two 
exams required to become a member of the State Bar of 
California.  The court issued its ruling in an order granting the law 
school graduate's motion for preliminary injunction on Thursday, 
February 4, 2010.  The court's ruling allows the plaintiff, Stephanie 
Enyart, to take the February 2010 Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) 
and March 2010 Multistate Professional Responsibility Examination 
(MPRE) on a laptop computer equipped with the assistive technology 
software Ms. Enyart relies upon for screen reading (JAWS) and screen 
magnification (ZoomText).



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
said: "The National Federation of the Blind is extremely pleased with 
the ruling in this case.  Law and equity simply do not permit the 
NCBE to dictate a one-size-fits-all solution for all bar candidates 
with disabilities.  We hope that this ruling will cause the NCBE to 
think long and hard before it denies the requested accommodations of 
applicants to take its examinations."



The plaintiff, Stephanie Enyart, said: "A little over a year ago I 
sent my first request for accommodations on the March 2009 MPRE, and 
tonight I can go to sleep knowing when and how I can effectively take 
the exams to fulfill my dreams."



Anna Levine of Disability Rights Advocates, an attorney representing 
the plaintiff, said: "I hope that our hard-fought victory here will 
send a message to testing organizations that they need to comply with 
the ADA and provide each individual test taker with a disability the 
accommodations that he or she needs to demonstrate his or her actual 
knowledge, skills, and abilities."



The suit was filed on November 3, 2009, due to the NCBE's refusal, on 
multiple occasions during the past year, to allow Ms. Enyart to use 
the same technology on the MBE and MPRE that she has used on 
university and law school exams and in various jobs and 
internships.  The suit charged that the NCBE violated the Americans 
with Disabilities Act (ADA) and California's Unruh Civil Rights Act 
by denying accommodations on the MBE and the MPRE.



NCBE had argued that it fulfilled its legal obligations to Ms. Enyart 
by offering alternative accommodations, such as a human reader, 
notwithstanding evidence that these alternatives did not, in fact, 
accommodate Ms. Enyart's disability.  In rejecting NCBE's argument, 
the court's ruling paves the way for other individuals prevented from 
pursuing their professional dreams by high stakes testing providers 
who take a rigid approach to disability accommodations.



The plaintiff is represented with the support of the National 
Federation of the Blind by LaBarre Law Offices, P.C., in Denver, 
Colorado, and by Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, in Baltimore, 
Maryland.  The plaintiff is further represented by Disability Rights 
Advocates, a nonprofit law center that specializes in civil rights 
cases on behalf of persons with disabilities, based in Berkeley, California.





###



About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
(NFB) is the largest and most influential membership organization of 
blind people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's 
lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading 
force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
the United States for the blind led by the blind.



__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus 
signature database 4852 (20100209) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

<http://www.eset.com>http://www.eset.com

From agrima at nbp.org  Thu Feb 11 18:46:12 2010
From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:46:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] From NBP: Using the internet in your job search
Message-ID: <5FE7B4A2D81340E6A7C15D05BFC1CB55@nbp2.local>

Read an excerpt from this book at the end of this email message!

If you are looking for a new job in today's competitive market, using
online job search tools is an absolute must. But where do you start?
Which online sites are best, or most important to your search? And how
can you use these online tools effectively and correctly?

Alison Doyle's "Internet Your Way to a New Job: How to Really Find a Job
Online" tells you how to:
- Create your professional presence online
- Market yourself as a strong candidate for employers
- Connect with contacts who will help you with your job search
- Help prospective employers find you
- Use sites like Facebook, VisualCV, and LinkedIn to your advantage

In braille (2 volumes), and PortaBook (CD and downloadable), $11.95

Read the table of contents for this book, or order it, at 
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/JOBONLINE.html

Note: Watch for Anna Dresner's new book, "Social Networking and You:
Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn for Blind Users" - coming soon from
National Braille Press!

******
To order any books, send payment to:
NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302
Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext
20. Or order any of our books online at
http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html .

EXCERPT FROM "INTERNET YOUR WAY TO A NEW JOB"

Which Sites to Use

Do you need to create a profile on every networking site there is? I
don't think so. First of all, there are more sites than you can easily
Keep track of. It's also better to have a few good profiles that you can
keep updated without spending all day working on online networking,
which
you could easily do.

I recommend starting with LinkedIn, JobFox, VisualCV, and Facebook.
Once you have created detailed profiles on those sites, you can
consider adding profiles at other sites, but don't overdo it.

What to Include in Your Profile

Keep your profiles simple. Remember that we're discussing professional
networking, so avoid adding Facebook applications that don't
relate to your job search. Prospective employers won't want to get gifts
or candy from you; see who you think is hot, or not; hug you; or do most
of the 30,000+ other applications you can add to your profile.

Include the following in your profile:
. Education
. Work Experience (current and past)
. Summary of Your Background (LinkedIn)
. Industry (LinkedIn)
. Location
. Web Sites
. Email Address (you may not want to make it public)

In addition to bolstering your professional presence, fully completing
your profile will allow contacts to search the networking sites and find
you. That's especially helpful when you want to be found by recruiters
or hiring managers looking for someone with your skills and experience.

# END OF EXCERPT




From corbbo at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 21:53:11 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:53:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium
Message-ID: <38070583-6B2B-4C82-9E91-275176B34E9E@gmail.com>

For anyone considering law school, going into a career involving  
disability advocacy, or is just interested in disability law, this is  
a great event!

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Blake, Lou Ann" <LBlake at nfb.org>
Date: February 11, 2010 4:43:46 PM EST
Subject: 2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium

Don't Miss Your Opportunity to Hear Assistant Attorney General for  
Civil Rights Tom Perez, Former Congressman Tony Coelho, and Other  
Leading Disabilities Rights Advocates

at the

2010 Jacobus tenBroek Disability Law Symposium

Equality, Difference, and the Right to Live in the World

April 15-16, 2010
at the
National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute
Baltimore, Maryland


Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights Tom Perez and former  
Congressman Tony Coelho head the list of distinguished law professors,  
practitioners, and advocates who will discuss the concepts of equality  
and difference as they relate to the disabled in employment,  
education, medical treatment, and access to technology.  With an  
expanded format to incorporate workshops, the 2010 symposium will  
provide more time for discussion, collaboration, and networking.

2010 plenary session presenters:

	• Adrienne Asch, Director, Center for Ethics, Yeshiva University
	• Dan Brock, Director, Division of Medical Ethics, Harvard Medical  
School
	• Richard Brown, Chief Judge, Wisconsin Court of Appeals
	• David Ferleger, Esquire, Law Office of David Ferleger
	• Dan Goldstein, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP
	• Andrew Imparato, President and CEO, American Association of People  
with Disabilities
	• Leslie Seid Margolis, Managing Attorney, Education Unit, Maryland  
Disability Law Center
	• Mark Weber, Vincent dePaul Professor of Law, DePaul University  
College of Law

2010 workshop facilitators:

	• Charles Brown, Director, Volunteer Lawyers for the Blind, American  
Action Fund for Blind Children and Adults
	• Ira Burnim, Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law
	• Claudia Center, Senior Staff Attorney, The Legal Aid Society  
Employment Law Center
	• Marc Charmatz, Senior Attorney, National Association of the Deaf
	• Robert Dinerstein, Professor of Law and Director of Clinical  
Programs,  American University Washington College of Law
	• Eve Hill, Senior Vice President, Burton Blatt Institute
	• Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP
	• Christopher Kuczynski, Esquire, Equal Employment Opportunity  
Commission
	• Jennifer Mathis, Deputy Legal Director, Bazelon Center for Mental  
Health Law
	• Ruby Moore, Executive Director, Georgia Advocacy Office, Inc.
	• Ari Ne'eman, President, Autistic Self-Advocacy Network
	• Steven Schwartz, Executive Director, Center for Public Representation

Documentation for CLE credits will be provided.

Registration fee: $175
Student registration fee: $25

A limited number of scholarships to cover the registration fee will be  
available to individuals with demonstrated financial need.

To learn more about the symposium and symposium sponsorship  
opportunities, view the agenda, and register online, please visit http://www.nfb.org/nfb/Law_Symposium.asp 
.  You may also download from this Web site a registration form to  
mail or fax.  Hotel information is also available on the symposium Web  
site.

For additional information, contact:

Lou Ann Blake, JD
Law Symposium Coordinator
Jacobus tenBroek Library
Jernigan Institute
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND
200 East Wells Street
at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland 21230
Telephone: 410-659-9314, ext. 2221
E-mail: lblake at nfb.org





From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 05:35:24 2010
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:35:24 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Link broken?
Message-ID: <20100212053524.GY32773@yumi.bluecherry.net>

I have been unable to login to NFB-Link since early December, and was 
just offered another mentee (hopefully one who can actually be 
contacted this time, I tried to reach my last one for weeks without 
success).

I still cannot login to the site, so I emailed the admin address, 
message bounced as no such email.

Who is maintaining it?  Have others been having problems, or is it 
just me?

Thanks,
Joseph



From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 08:31:10 2010
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:31:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
Message-ID: <4804d1141002120031p3977560do98d28f75072f6efd@mail.gmail.com>

Hello nabsters,
I am trying to create an itunes account because I would like to buy an
album from their store. I am currently experiencing some trouble doing
it in itunes as it is not reading me the information that goes in the
boxes, so I don't know what I'm supposed to put in each box. Is there
any other way to create an account without doing it directly in
itunes? If anyone else has shopped on the online store before, how did
you do it? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ashley


From valandkayla at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 12:00:28 2010
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:00:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
Message-ID: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>

I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to 
be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via 
the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's 
working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and 
purchase it rather than jaws.

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Fri Feb 12 16:05:59 2010
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:05:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
In-Reply-To: <4804d1141002120031p3977560do98d28f75072f6efd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4804d1141002120031p3977560do98d28f75072f6efd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901caabfd$44b971c0$ce2c5540$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>

Hey! I have an account and though it was annoying to set up (I managed to do
it without sighted assistance) it works well once it's set up. Rather than
using tab or shift tab to move between form fields, try using the arrow
keys. I know it took a few tries to get it right. Sorry I can't remember
exactly what I did. What version of JAWS are you using?
HTH,
Sarah

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:31 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?

Hello nabsters,
I am trying to create an itunes account because I would like to buy an
album from their store. I am currently experiencing some trouble doing
it in itunes as it is not reading me the information that goes in the
boxes, so I don't know what I'm supposed to put in each box. Is there
any other way to create an account without doing it directly in
itunes? If anyone else has shopped on the online store before, how did
you do it? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ashley

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
ronto.ca



From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Fri Feb 12 16:06:57 2010
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:06:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
In-Reply-To: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
References: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
Message-ID: <000a01caabfd$68baab20$3a300160$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>

JAWS 11 works well with ITunes. If you can upgrade your life will be much
easier.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Valerie
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:00 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?

I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to 
be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via 
the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's 
working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and 
purchase it rather than jaws.

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
ronto.ca



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 16:49:08 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:49:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
References: <4804d1141002120031p3977560do98d28f75072f6efd@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901caabfd$44b971c0$ce2c5540$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <2CDAA6F16B3A40F8BD524A8BB35C7DFF@hometwxakonvzn>

Hi Sarah, I'm RJ. I have a masters of theology, and am going for my 
docterate in the same thing. I just got on skype, and its really cool!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Jevnikar" <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?


> Hey! I have an account and though it was annoying to set up (I managed to 
> do
> it without sighted assistance) it works well once it's set up. Rather than
> using tab or shift tab to move between form fields, try using the arrow
> keys. I know it took a few tries to get it right. Sorry I can't remember
> exactly what I did. What version of JAWS are you using?
> HTH,
> Sarah
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Ashley
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:31 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>
> Hello nabsters,
> I am trying to create an itunes account because I would like to buy an
> album from their store. I am currently experiencing some trouble doing
> it in itunes as it is not reading me the information that goes in the
> boxes, so I don't know what I'm supposed to put in each box. Is there
> any other way to create an account without doing it directly in
> itunes? If anyone else has shopped on the online store before, how did
> you do it? Any help would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Ashley
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
> ronto.ca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org  Fri Feb 12 18:27:50 2010
From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:27:50 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Internship Opportunity Is Knocking for Someone
Message-ID: <52C0C494A2E849A6BBD3EC44F9B08772@PAULLAPTOP>



PASSING IT ON. 

 

http://www.pgatour.com/company/internships.html 


Eligibility 

Position requirements will vary according to job placement. However, as of May 21, 2010, all candidates must: 

·         be at least 20 years of age, and 

·         have completed your sophomore year in a 4-year undergraduate degree program or currently enrolled in a graduate degree program, and 

·         have a cumulative minimum GPA of 2.8 or better on a 4.0 scale, and 

·         be eligible to work in the United States. International students must obtain all visas and employment authorizations prior to the start of an internship. Contact the international advisor at your school several months prior to the start of an internship for work authorization requirements. 


NOTE: The ability to play golf or knowledge of the game is not required for many positions. 

Application Process 

What to do PRIOR to beginning the on-line application process: 

·         Create a resume in MS Word format (.doc). 

·         Download and complete the Personal Essay Form. 

·         Begin online application * 

Deadline for applications is February 28, 2010.

From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 19:07:23 2010
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:07:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
In-Reply-To: <7553002188652510821@unknownmsgid>
References: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
	<7553002188652510821@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4804d1141002121107wec2b6b4o3a8153c3824774e6@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, i am using jaws 9. I messed around with it a bit, and I
managed to get it to work. Not sure what I did exactly, but I did get
it to work. Thanks for your help.
Ashley


On 2/12/10, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
> JAWS 11 works well with ITunes. If you can upgrade your life will be much
> easier.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Valerie
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:00 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>
> I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to
> be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via
> the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's
> working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and
> purchase it rather than jaws.
>
> --
> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
> ronto.ca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 20:41:15 2010
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:41:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
In-Reply-To: <4804d1141002121107wec2b6b4o3a8153c3824774e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
	<7553002188652510821@unknownmsgid>
	<4804d1141002121107wec2b6b4o3a8153c3824774e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3fea3c411002121241k7d7c9cx8cf7e503fb49072f@mail.gmail.com>

I tried using the arrows, but i ran into problems when in was entering
my credit card information. It would not move through the boxes
smoothly and am using JAWS 11 with iTunes 9.

Cindy

On 2/12/10, Ashley <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, i am using jaws 9. I messed around with it a bit, and I
> managed to get it to work. Not sure what I did exactly, but I did get
> it to work. Thanks for your help.
> Ashley
>
>
> On 2/12/10, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
>> JAWS 11 works well with ITunes. If you can upgrade your life will be much
>> easier.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Valerie
>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:00 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>>
>> I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to
>> be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via
>> the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's
>> working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and
>> purchase it rather than jaws.
>>
>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>> ronto.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 21:13:02 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
In-Reply-To: <2CDAA6F16B3A40F8BD524A8BB35C7DFF@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <4804d1141002120031p3977560do98d28f75072f6efd@mail.gmail.com>
	<2CDAA6F16B3A40F8BD524A8BB35C7DFF@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002121313s4a8277b1mb3feed5b92759513@mail.gmail.com>

 My understanding of it is that if you  have a  later version of jaw
(JAWS 11) that you can work with  I tunes  well enough. I also   hear
that window eyes works with I tunes.
 Now, if you have an I touch or I phone, I tunes works     with that
of course. (assumeing you have  the newer generations of said apple
devices that have voice over on them)  hope thathelps,
  Darian

On 2/12/10, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sarah, I'm RJ. I have a masters of theology, and am going for my
> docterate in the same thing. I just got on skype, and its really cool!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah Jevnikar" <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>
>
>> Hey! I have an account and though it was annoying to set up (I managed to
>> do
>> it without sighted assistance) it works well once it's set up. Rather than
>> using tab or shift tab to move between form fields, try using the arrow
>> keys. I know it took a few tries to get it right. Sorry I can't remember
>> exactly what I did. What version of JAWS are you using?
>> HTH,
>> Sarah
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Ashley
>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:31 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>>
>> Hello nabsters,
>> I am trying to create an itunes account because I would like to buy an
>> album from their store. I am currently experiencing some trouble doing
>> it in itunes as it is not reading me the information that goes in the
>> boxes, so I don't know what I'm supposed to put in each box. Is there
>> any other way to create an account without doing it directly in
>> itunes? If anyone else has shopped on the online store before, how did
>> you do it? Any help would be appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> Ashley
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>> ronto.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From chriswright11 at verizon.net  Fri Feb 12 20:59:56 2010
From: chriswright11 at verizon.net (Christopher Wright)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 15:59:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
References: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
	<7553002188652510821@unknownmsgid>
	<4804d1141002121107wec2b6b4o3a8153c3824774e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<3fea3c411002121241k7d7c9cx8cf7e503fb49072f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49D8E2D96C8840688F2A769A9A6FC80F@DHP4VFK1>

Did you listen to the tutorial that's on the Blind Cool Tech web site?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?


>I tried using the arrows, but i ran into problems when in was entering
> my credit card information. It would not move through the boxes
> smoothly and am using JAWS 11 with iTunes 9.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 2/12/10, Ashley <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Actually, i am using jaws 9. I messed around with it a bit, and I
>> managed to get it to work. Not sure what I did exactly, but I did get
>> it to work. Thanks for your help.
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> On 2/12/10, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>> JAWS 11 works well with ITunes. If you can upgrade your life will be 
>>> much
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Valerie
>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:00 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>>>
>>> I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to
>>> be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via
>>> the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's
>>> working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and
>>> purchase it rather than jaws.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>>> ronto.ca
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net 


From chriswright11 at verizon.net  Fri Feb 12 22:35:30 2010
From: chriswright11 at verizon.net (Christopher Wright)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:35:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
References: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
	<7553002188652510821@unknownmsgid>
	<4804d1141002121107wec2b6b4o3a8153c3824774e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C8F8C1B0EA3E42A486B306E55D0FF266@DHP4VFK1>

I'm having trouble setting up a payment method.

I'm using Jaws 11 with Itunes 9.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?


> Actually, i am using jaws 9. I messed around with it a bit, and I
> managed to get it to work. Not sure what I did exactly, but I did get
> it to work. Thanks for your help.
> Ashley
>
>
> On 2/12/10, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
>> JAWS 11 works well with ITunes. If you can upgrade your life will be much
>> easier.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Valerie
>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:00 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>>
>> I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to
>> be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via
>> the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's
>> working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and
>> purchase it rather than jaws.
>>
>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>> ronto.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net 



From qmsingleton at comcast.net  Sat Feb 13 05:40:24 2010
From: qmsingleton at comcast.net (Quintina M. Singleton)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:40:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Thruoureyes Announcement
Message-ID: <auto-000139576552@mailfront1.g2host.com>


Thru Our Eyes announces a double show for this coming <?xml:namespace 
prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
/>Wednesday, February 17, 2010

Joe Ruffalo will interview Jesse Hartle, government programs specialist

on Wednesday, February 17 at 8:00 pm. Est.

The following topics to be discussed are as follows:

  history of the Washington Seminar

an overview of the issues in the past that the NFB made a difference

an overview of this year's issues

feature, "How all need to Get Involved"

the importance of thank you emails to the representatives

the importance to meet the Congressional representatives while they are

in their home districts

Stay tuned in to hear at 9:00 PM Jerry Moreno and Janie Degenshein 
interview David denotaris, director bureau of blindness and visual

services for the State of Pennsylvania and motivational speaker

Book corner:

LA Times by Stuart Woods 330 pages on 7 sides

Movie producer, Michael Vincent has a terrific future but a notorious 
mob laden past.

Will his past come back to haunt him? This perilous slope ride 
includes the mob and

Hollywood!

Shoot Him If He Runs by Stuart Woods 290 pages on 6 sides Attorney, 
Stone Barrington

returns to an island to track down a former CIA agent turned 
assassin. Holly Barker

joins him to defeat this foe!

Pandora's Daughter by Iris Johansen 375 pages on 7 sides

At the age of 15, Megan Blair's mother dies. For 12 years, she is 
unburdened with

the voices she heard when her mother was alive. Now, she is asked to 
call upon her

gift to locate her pursuer who is determined to eliminate her as well!

Quicksand by Iris Johansen 340 pages on 7 sides

Eve Duncan and her lover Joe Quinn seek the aid of Megan Blair (from 
Pandora's Daughter)in

stopping a serial killer who targets children.

  Hold on with the constant turmoil uncovered.

Survival of the Fittest by Johnathon Kellerman

As its title suggests, the game is to survive. A truly

unbelievable journey.

To listen to these  programs via telephone, please call

  1-605-475-6333, access code:

833520.

To access the show online visit www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html

The call in number for anyone

interested in asking a question is 1-888-572-0141.



From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 10:58:31 2010
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 04:58:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
In-Reply-To: <C8F8C1B0EA3E42A486B306E55D0FF266@DHP4VFK1>
References: <20100212120028.4146.66057@web2.serotek.com>
	<7553002188652510821@unknownmsgid>
	<4804d1141002121107wec2b6b4o3a8153c3824774e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<C8F8C1B0EA3E42A486B306E55D0FF266@DHP4VFK1>
Message-ID: <4804d1141002130258v1f0b1b4dr77370169650e2454@mail.gmail.com>

That is the same problem i had. I was using the arrows, and it didn't
work. It still was not reading the information that needed to go in
the boxes. I was able to create the account with no hastle at this
website called apple my info or something like that. And unfortunately
some of us just can't afford an upgrade right now. But anyway, I had
to mess with it a bit in order to set up the payment method. My
understanding of it is, if all of your information (including your
phone number) is filled in when you created your account, then all you
should have to do when entering the payment credintials is to first
enter the credit card number in the first edit box. Then, you would
select the date in the combo box for the expiration. The last one is
the security code. i had to mess with it but I was able to figure that
out. HTH,
Ashley


On 2/12/10, Christopher Wright <chriswright11 at verizon.net> wrote:
> I'm having trouble setting up a payment method.
>
> I'm using Jaws 11 with Itunes 9.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>
>
>> Actually, i am using jaws 9. I messed around with it a bit, and I
>> managed to get it to work. Not sure what I did exactly, but I did get
>> it to work. Thanks for your help.
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> On 2/12/10, Sarah Jevnikar <sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca> wrote:
>>> JAWS 11 works well with ITunes. If you can upgrade your life will be much
>>> easier.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Valerie
>>> Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 7:00 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Creating An Itunes Account?
>>>
>>> I ahd the same problem withitunes and jaws 10.  Jaws, in fact, used to
>>> be accesssible with the store, but now it's not reading anything via
>>> the arrow keys.  You could ry system access to go.  I find that's
>>> working really well with jaws, and if you like, do what i did and
>>> purchase it rather than jaws.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
>>> ronto.ca
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From carter.tjoseph at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 08:35:03 2010
From: carter.tjoseph at gmail.com (T. Joseph Carter)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 00:35:03 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Independence with a Price Tag
In-Reply-To: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
References: <C389AD3D7EB14C89BC56E1A59978F7FE@Rufus>
Message-ID: <20100213083502.GA78464@yumi.bluecherry.net>

Joe,

I'm pleased to see you getting positive remarks on this issue.  When 
I brought it up back in about 2004 (was it really that long ago?), I 
was eviscerated for suggesting that these products cost more than 
they ought to, and I believe I was accused of trying to steal jobs 
from those few blind folks fortunate enough to have them.

I think the difference now is that we can clearly see that devices 
intended for the sighted public could, and by all rights should, 
serve our needs in much the same way they do for the sighted world.

Audio and electronic text books are nothing new for us blind people, 
but the sighted world is increasingly taking interest in them for 
commuting and convenience.  At this point, the only difference 
between theirs and ours is that they have more books, and our devices 
have better features (multiple bookmarks, better navigation, etc.).

The average voice-based note-taker's got nothing on a modern cell 
phone with folding keyboard if you have a place to set down the 
keyboard.  It's even possible, though unlikely, that you can use 
Braille input and output with your cell phone at a fraction of what 
you'd pay Humanware or Freedom Scientific.

Large print users are beginning to recognize more and more that the 
hardware used to make our print bigger is basically a webcam with LED 
lights and a close focus lens.

They tell us it is an economy of scale, but we're starting to see 
that if it was ever true in the past, it is true no longer.  There is 
very little actually specialized hardware that needs to go into these 
things, and less and less specialized software.  About the only real 
specialized hardware at this point are alternative input devices for 
those who don't use QWERTY keyboards and Braille displays.  The rest 
of the hardware is essentially off-the-shelf, or at least ought to be 
at this point.

Joseph

On Tue, Feb 02, 2010 at 11:45:10PM -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>Dear list,
>
>I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from your
>rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after you
>find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to settle
>for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But, that's
>the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet, it
>seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>with its mainstream counterparts.
>
>At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>
>Looking forward to your input,
>
>Joe Orozco
>
>"A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>crowd."--Max Lucado
>
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 4829 (20100202) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carter.tjoseph%40gmail.com


From nabs.president at gmail.com  Sat Feb 13 19:15:46 2010
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 13:15:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS February Bulletin!
Message-ID: <85ff10071002131115o69c59b83n8ddcf844db384cf7@mail.gmail.com>

national Association of Blind Students
>From the Desk of the President
February 13, 2010

In This Bulletin:
1.  Washington Seminar Report!
2.  Legislative Update!
3. Scholarships for Convention!
4. NABS On Facebook and Twitter!
5.  NFB 2010 Scholarship Program

Washington Seminar Report!

On Sunday, January 31, the National Association of Blind Students held
our annual midwinter meeting in Washington, D.C. It was my pleasure to
organize this year’s meeting. In addition to the usual informational
updates and talks from our NFB president, NFB governmental affairs
director and NFB scholarship chairman, we had an excellent panel
discussion of job-finding skills and another panel discussion of NFB
blindness skills training opportunities. We also conducted breakout
sessions where students could ask questions and receive information
about on-campus involvement, academic issues, assistive technology and
NFB philosophy.

On Sunday evening, we held a NABS mixer and auction where students
could socialize and dance. NABS raised $750 in the auction.

Finally, on Monday morning, NABS held a student information fair where
representatives from RFB&D, BookShare, ETS, NewsLine, Blackboard, and
our three NFB training centers distributed information and talked with
students. This was our first time doing this, and I think it was quite
successful and informative for all who attended.

I’d like to thank everyone who attended our meeting, as well as all
those who presented information, for making it a success!

Legislative Update:
Sean Whalen, second vice-president of NABS, writes the following
regarding the NFB’s legislative work in Washington:
On Monday, February 1, NFB members from across the country, including
impressive numbers of students, converged on Washington DC to carry
our message regarding the legislative priorities of blind Americans to
Congress. Over the subsequent three days, we met with Senators,
Representatives and Congressional staff in virtually all 535
Congressional offices to educate them on issues of importance to the
blind. We talked to them about how important it is that cars can be
heard and how the proliferation of silent cars is a real threat to the
independent travel of the blind. We talked about implementing cheap
and easy common-sense solutions to ensure that blind individuals can
participate equally in society and the workplace by making certain
that we have access to home and office electronics and software. And
we showed them how the current rules governing eligibility for SSDI
benefits can actually serve as a disincentive to work for blind
recipients.

Now, Washington Seminar is over, however, the legislative work for the
year has just begun. Whether or not you attended Washington Seminar,
you can help with the critical work of garnering Congressional support
for our bills. It is crucial that Members of Congress hear from their
constituents about these issues. Each one of us can play a vital role
in forwarding our legislative agenda. Simply call or write to your
Senators and Representatives and, if they are not already signed on as
a cosponsor for our bills, let them know why the issue is important
and ask them to sign on. If you do not know who your Representatives
or Senators are, you can look them up at www.house.gov and
www.senate.gov respectively. To find out whether or not your
particular member is a cosponsor of a given bill, go to Thomas.loc.gov
(no www) and enter the bill number for the legislation you are
interested in checking on. Bill numbers are as follows:

H.R. 734 Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act in the House
S. 841 Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act in the Senate
H.R. 886 Blind Persons Earnings Fairness Act (SSDI) in the House
S. 2962 Blind Persons Earnings Fairness Act (SSDI) in the Senate
H.R. 4533 Technology Bill of Rights for the Blind in the House

Note: There has not yet been a technology access bill introduced in
the Senate. This is all the more reason to reach out to your Senators
to see if they would be interested in introducing such legislation.

After searching for the bill, click on the bill title on the search
results page. From there, you will find a “cosponsors” link that will
take you to a page which lists all current cosponsors of the bill.

If you wish to call your Senators and Representatives, you may call
the Capitol Switchboard at (202) 225-3121 and ask to be connected to
your Senator’s or Representative’s office.

It doesn’t take long to reach out to your elected officials, and
contact from constituents is one of the biggest determinants of where
Members of Congress come down on issues. Let’s keep up the momentum of
last week. Working together we can build a brighter future for blind
individuals throughout the United States!

Sincerely,

Sean Whalen


Convention Scholarships Available:

The NFB will be having its annual convention this year in Dallas, TX,
at the Hilton Anatole Hotel on July 3-8, 2010. Stay tuned for more
details regarding the convention and student activities. In the
meantime, if you have never attended an NFB convention before, you can
apply for funding to cover your expenses. Please contact your NFB
chapter or affiliate president to get a letter of support for your
funding application. If you don’t know who your affiliate president
is, go to
http://www.nfb.org/nfb/State_and_Local_Organizations.asp

NABS on Facebook and Twitter:

The National Association of Blind Students now has a page on Facebook
and an account on Twitter! Become a fan of NABS on Facebook to stay in
touch and communicate with other blind students across the country.
Follow us on Twitter to receive announcements about what NABS is doing
both nationally and in our state divisions.  You can find us by
searching for "National Association of Blind Students" on Facebook and
"NABSLINK" on Twitter.

Do you have a piece of news that you want us to post on Facebook and
Twitter? Please send it to the membership committee by writing an
email to

2010 Scholarship Applications Now Available:
Each year the National Federation of the Blind awards thirty
scholarships to legally blind college and graduate students across the
country.  The scholarship includes a cash award ranging from $3000 to
$12000, plus a free trip to the NFB national convention and often a
piece of assistive technology such as a KNFB Reader Mobile.  The
scholarship application for 2010 is now on the Web at
www.nfb.org/scholarships
Applications are due by March 31, 2010.
Already won a national NFB scholarship? You can apply again and
potentially win a second scholarship, also known as a TenBroek
fellowship.
In addition, many NFB affiliates offer scholarships to blind students.
 You needn't be an active member of the NFB to win.  Contact your NFB
state president for details.


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From lilrichie411 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 01:24:46 2010
From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:24:46 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
In-Reply-To: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com>
References: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com>
Message-ID: <ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com> wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to tab to it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult navigation of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site’s
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go the last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard “requests.”
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant change in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change, there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want to see in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant change in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 03:41:29 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:41:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Pac Mate Omni for Sale
Message-ID: <F9ED05A719CF41D1AB363BB016BDEAE1@Rufus>

Hello all,

I have a Pac Mate Omni BX420 for sale.  The firmware is the latest version,
6.2.  The unit is in excellent condition, including all cells on the Braille
display.  Scroll down for information about pricing and possible payment
plan.

Features:

* Access to the mobile version of Windows PowerPointR 
* Microsoft's Direct Push Technology for real time synchronization of
e-mail, calendar, contacts, and tasks 
* Smart filtering for rapid location of e-mail messages 
* Easy information searches via Windows Live Search 
* Support for the Windows Live Messenger voice clip feature providing users
with "push-to-talk" functionality in instant messaging 
* "Plug and Play" support for popular WiFi and BluetoothR cards

The package will include the following items:

* Pac Mate Omni
* 20 cell Pac Mate portable display
* AC adapter
* Braille quick reference guide
* USB cable
* Standard to mini USB adapter
* 1 gig cf card
* 128 meg cf card
* CF modem adapter
* CF Ethernet adapter
* CF wireless adapter and drivers
* CF FM tuner and drivers
* PCMCIA adapter
* Standard carrying case and included shoulder straps
* Executive products carrying case with included shoulder strap and
accessory pouch for the AC adapter
* FS Reader
* FSCommander

Alone, this unit is worth $3,795.  This unit, plus accessories, is being
sold at $1,150, including standard shipping.  I will sell it to you for
$1,350 if you prefer to work out a payment plan, also including standard
shipping.

If seriously interested, please e-mail me at:

jsorozco at gmail.com

PayPal is preferred.

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4864 (20100213) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From nabs.president at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 04:41:56 2010
From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:41:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] University Academics
In-Reply-To: <BAA0C861130A4B588B1BB95E5BC9FBA9@stanford.edu>
References: <20100202191256.28667.97843@web1.serotek.com>
	<BAA0C861130A4B588B1BB95E5BC9FBA9@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <85ff10071002132041q190a91d5o9e966955a4a2ae5b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Alexandria,

I am very behind on email, but I just saw your post and I am not sure
whether your question was answered. It certainly is an important issue
for many of us, which is why I am replying on-list.

I'd be curious to know what type of technology you currently use, as
well as what kind of papers you have to write. Do you have to do
research (from reading books, articles or studies) to write your
papers, or do you simply have to write about the in-class readings?

I am blind and I have written quite a few papers of both kinds
throughout my college and grad school career, so I should be able to
offer some advice once I get a better idea of what you are expected to
do, and what aspects you are having trouble with.

If you prefer you can write me off-list at
nabs.president at gmail.com

Best of luck this semester!

Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone: 602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Web:
www.nabslink.org

On 2/2/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Before answering your questions, may I ask you a few?  What, if any,
> adaptive technology do you have/use?  Do you read/write Braille? Large
> print? If you read/write Braille, is your preference for typing a Braille
> keyboard or a qwerty keyboard?
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Davis, Alexandria U.S. CG Aux/CAP 2LT" <coastguardgirl at samobile.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 11:12 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] University Academics
>
>
>> Hi there! I am a first year student at American Military University and am
>>
>> visually impaired. Could someone tell me how they write papers as a blind
>> student? My school is heavily focused on papers, one term paper due every
>> eight weeks plus essays for all exams with four long exams per class per
>> eight week semester. Is this the same for civilian university? How long
>> are your semesters and are papers this heavy? Thanks for any tips.
>>
>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Arielle Silverman
President, National Association of Blind Students
Phone:  602-502-2255
Email:
nabs.president at gmail.com
Website:
www.nabslink.org


From commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 14 05:54:17 2010
From: commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net (Kevin Wassmer)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:54:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
References: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com>
	<ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0985E4D6FBB84C40B200C60A05797349@kevin9ee0841f6>

I have to be honist. I don't even use facebooks site. I use m.facebook.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Richardson" <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: "Accessibility" <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com>
Cc: <president at nfb.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes


Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com> 
wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to tab to 
> it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top 
> navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in 
> building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best 
> experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult navigation 
> of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site’s
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go the 
> last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard “requests.”
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant change 
> in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change, there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the 
> previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want to see 
> in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant change 
> in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/commanderlumpy2003%40earthlink.net 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sun Feb 14 18:52:12 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:52:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
References: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com><ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>
	<0985E4D6FBB84C40B200C60A05797349@kevin9ee0841f6>
Message-ID: <006501caada6$d187e140$0201a8c0@Serene>

Me, too!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Wassmer" <commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes


I have to be honist. I don't even use facebooks site. I use m.facebook.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Richardson" <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: "Accessibility" <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com>
Cc: <president at nfb.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes


Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com>
wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to tab to 
> it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top 
> navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in 
> building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best 
> experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult navigation 
> of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site’s
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go the 
> last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard “requests.”
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant change 
> in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change, there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the 
> previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want to see 
> in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant change 
> in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/commanderlumpy2003%40earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sun Feb 14 18:58:06 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:58:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
References: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com><ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>
	<0985E4D6FBB84C40B200C60A05797349@kevin9ee0841f6>
Message-ID: <000d01caada7$a4ff2a10$0201a8c0@Serene>

I think the more people start to only use m.facebook.com, the more the 
Facebook people will really care about making the regular site accessible 
cuz that site will lose our business!


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Wassmer" <commanderlumpy2003 at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes


I have to be honist. I don't even use facebooks site. I use m.facebook.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Richardson" <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: "Accessibility" <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com>
Cc: <president at nfb.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes


Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com>
wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to tab to 
> it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top 
> navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in 
> building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best 
> experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult navigation 
> of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site’s
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go the 
> last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard “requests.”
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant change 
> in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change, there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the 
> previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want to see 
> in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant change 
> in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

_______________________________________________
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 14 19:47:27 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah alawami)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:47:27 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
In-Reply-To: <0985E4D6FBB84C40B200C60A05797349@kevin9ee0841f6>
Message-ID: <733A2411042C43F9B03564A3E9436DF4@sarahcomp>

But you cannot chat via mfacebook.com and there   are a bunch of captchas
solona  and webvisum cannot solve.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kevin Wassmer
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 9:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes

I have to be honist. I don't even use facebooks site. I use m.facebook.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Richardson" <lilrichie411 at gmail.com>
To: "Accessibility" <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com>
Cc: <president at nfb.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes


Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com> 
wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to tab to 
> it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top 
> navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in 
> building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best 
> experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult navigation 
> of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site's
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go the 
> last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard "requests."
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant change 
> in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change, there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the 
> previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want to see 
> in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant change 
> in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/commanderlumpy2003%4
0earthlink.net 


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From j8miller at soe.ucsd.edu  Sun Feb 14 20:44:59 2010
From: j8miller at soe.ucsd.edu (John Miller)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 14:44:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [Nfb-science] FW: Invitation for Students with
 Disabilities to San Diego Science	 & Technology Luncheon
Message-ID: <auto-000139691598@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Hello,
If you know of a blind middle school or high school student living in 
the Southern California area,
please share this information with them about the upcoming Feb 20 
AAAS event in San Diego.
Blind scientists would also be welcome at the event. Please RSVP.
very best,
John Miller


________________________________
From: Winnie Rodriguez [mailto:wrodrigu at aaas.org]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 7:56 PM
To: John Miller
Subject: Invitation for Students with Disabilities to San Diego 
Science & Technology Luncheon

Dear John,

I am writing to inform you of a free event next Saturday, Feb 20, at 
the San Diego Marriott Hotel and Marina for middle and high school 
students with disabilities. We, at AAAS, recognize the importance of 
providing role models to students with disabilities and conveying to 
them that a career in science is possible for ALL students. I hope 
you can assist me in disseminating this invitation to the NFB 
community in San Diego. One of our speakers is a San Francisco-based 
computer scientist who is blind.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), the 
world's largest scientific society, is holding its annual meeting in 
San Diego next month. Every year we invite students in the 
metropolitan area to meet professionals with disabilities who are 
working in science, technology, engineering, and math. Below are the 
brief details of the event.

What: AAAS Luncheon for Scientists and Students with Disabilities
When: Saturday, February 20, 2010, 10:00 am - 2:00 pm
Where: Seaview Room, San Diego Marriott Hotel and Marina
Why: Provide middle and high school students with disabilities 
(apparent and non-apparent) the opportunity to hear about the 
educational and life experiences of people with disabilities working 
in the sciences, engineering, technology, and mathematics

This is a free event. Anyone interested in attending this luncheon 
should RSVP via email or phone 
(wrodrigu at aaas.org<mailto:wrodrigu at aaas.org> or 202-326-6630) by 
Wednesday, February 17, 2010.

Sincerely,
Winnie Rodriguez
Project on Science, Technology and Disability
American Association for the Advancement of Science
www.aaas.org<http://www.aaas.org>


Winnie Rodriguez
Project on Science, Technology and Disability
American Association for the Advancement of Science
1200 New York Ave NW
Washington, DC 20005
202.326.6630 phone
202.371.9849 fax
wrodrigu at aaas.org



From gwunder at earthlink.net  Mon Feb 15 06:38:11 2010
From: gwunder at earthlink.net (Gary Wunder)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:38:11 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Book Flea Market
Message-ID: <auto-000139438761@mailfront2.g2host.com>

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy Chong" <peggychong at earthlink.net>
To: "Peggy Chong" <PeggyChong at earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 11:16 AM
Subject: Braille Book Flea Market


>Hello to all:
>
>It is that time again.
>
>Donate your gently used but no longer needed braille books to the 2010
>Braille Book Flea Market sponsored by the National Organization of Parents
>of Blind Children and the National Association to Promote the Use of
>Braille.  Books should be in good condition.  Cookbooks, twin-vision books
>and books suitable for children are greatly needed.  Do not forget those
>twin-vision books.  We always run short.
>
>
>
>In a few weeks, we will have a local address in Texas where you can send the
>Braille Books you wish to donate. Begin your search through the boxes in
>your basement and spare room and get them ready for shipping.  If you have
>any questions, contact me, Peggy Chong at 515-277-1288 or e-mail at
>peggychong at earthlink.net.  Look for a Braille Book Flea Market update in the
>Braille Monitor very soon.  I will also send to this list the address for
>shipping.
>
>
>
>Peggy Chong



From newmanrl at cox.net  Tue Feb 16 00:07:12 2010
From: newmanrl at cox.net (Robert Leslie Newman)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:07:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] New THOUGHT PROVOKER #154- White Canes and Windmills
Message-ID: <69334DB7973048D681A0C1C4998248B8@RobertLesliePC>

NABS

RE: White Canes and Windmills 

 

 

This is a THOUGHT PROVOKER about Danny, a youth who be going into school
today, and it will be his first time with a long white cane in his hand.
Danny is up tight. see how he works off some anxiety and pumps up some
courage. If you have not read the PROVOKER, it follows.  Recall that I
collect responses and post them upon my web site for all the WWW to read and
learn from and that URL is-  <http://thoughtprovoker.info/>
Http://thoughtprovoker.info  If you wish to receive THOUGHT PROVOKERS sent
directly to you, just write me and ask, at-  newmanrl at cox.net 

 

 

THOUGHT PROVOKER 154

White Canes and Windmills

 

In his bedroom, Danny picked up his long white cane, his first. Its weight
was easy to handle. Holding it up and straight out before him, he gave it a
tentative sword-like, back-and-forth swish. This would be his first day
using it at school and he couldn't kid himself, he was nervous about how
people would react to him.

 

"Danny," his mother called up to him from downstairs. "Come down. You need
to start walking to school, son." 

 

"Sixty seconds, Mom." Lowering the cane, positioning it at center, Danny
tapped it left to right in the two-point touch method he had been taught.
"Wonder what the girls will think?" Danny looked inward and began to
fantasize.

 

It was a warm day. It was after school and he was walking home, using his
new cane. At Maple and Main, the usual group of snooty girls was gathered,
visiting. Danny knew they saw him coming; his stride was confident,
shoulders back, head up, swinging in a steady rhythm, arching his cane, not
staring down at shuffling feet like before. He was truckin'!

 

DING-DING, the ice-cream truck drove by. 

 

"Oh, stop, stop!" Cried all the girls, but the truck kept on rolling down
the street.

 

"I'll stop him!" In his dream, Danny leaps forward; cane flashing; he
sprints down the walk; catches up with the truck; reaches out and taps the
windshield with his cane tip; the truck stops.

 

"Danny." his mother calls again. 

 

"Yes Mom, just 40 seconds." Feeling excited about what he might be able to
use his cane for, Danny lifts it up, this time in the on-guard sword
position. In his fantasy he is now on the neighborhood playground, walking
with his cane and . . .

 

"Hey Squint, where's your magnifying glasses and what's that wimpy stick?"
The blunt end of a baseball bat poked into Danny's stomach, punctuating the
bully's last word.

 

Danny jumps back, whirls a three-sixty and with the tip of his cane flicks
the bully's baseball hat off his head. 

 

"Hey!" Taken by surprise, the bully retaliates, swinging the bat. 

 

The WHOOSH of the oncoming danger cues Danny to step back and the bat swings
by harmlessly. Countering with his trusty cane, Danny steps forward and
spanks the bully sharply on the seat of his pants.

 

"OUCH! Grrr, I'll get you for that!" Bat pulled back for another swing, the
bully leaps forward.

 

Danny jumps onto a lower rung of a set of climbing bars; the bully swings
again; Danny sidesteps; RING the bat strikes the bars; the bat brakes; the
bully yells with the pain of the splintering wood in his hands; Danny
thrusts out, inserting the dirty tip of his cane into the bully's open
mouth. 

 

"Danny?" His mother's voice brings him back. "Are you coming?"

 

"Twenty seconds, Mom." Danny's pumped, his thoughts are racing, seeing great
potential for him and his new cane; maybe even school-wide fame. . .

 

The scene is the crowded school's playground. He visualizes the towering
structures of the wind turbines lining the edge of the school's property.
This was recess and the kids were doing what they've done since the
windmills were built--they watched the whirling propellers, boasting on what
they'd do if they could climb the towers. 

 

Walking out in front of all the gathered students, Danny snaps on a hook to
the tip-end of his cane; he jumps skyward; he hooks a blade as it swings
down; he is lifted up and rides around waving to the astonishment and
admiration of all. 

 

"Danny, you need to come down, now!"

 

"Yes, Mom." New cane in hand, Danny speeds downstairs, ready to tackle the
day.

 

 
Robert Leslie Newman
Author of THOUGHT PROVOKER
http://www.thoughtprovoker.info <http://www.thoughtprovoker.info/> 
Thought Is The First Step To Beyond
 

From corbbo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 02:01:16 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:01:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
In-Reply-To: <ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com>
	<ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <543E943A-B5F2-4A01-A0A5-78F3EA4B0A0E@gmail.com>

I commend you, Jordan, for writing to Facebook directly, and not just  
complaining about the inaccessibility. Good, proactive work!

Corbb

On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Jordan Richardson wrote:

Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility 
+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com> wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to  
> tab to it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top  
> navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in  
> building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best  
> experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format  
> of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult  
> navigation of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the  
> screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site’s
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go  
> the last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard “requests.”
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many  
> sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database  
> several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in  
> an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant  
> change in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change,  
> there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate  
> with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the  
> previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are  
> frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to  
> change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want  
> to see in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden  
> your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant  
> change in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
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From aphelps at BISM.org  Tue Feb 16 13:29:33 2010
From: aphelps at BISM.org (Amy Phelps)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:29:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
In-Reply-To: <543E943A-B5F2-4A01-A0A5-78F3EA4B0A0E@gmail.com>
References: <d67d5d2729828d1468f5cad61599c6a4@tps.facebook.com><ca301f5e1002131724w32a0106cr8e626266ceb28340@mail.gmail.com>
	<543E943A-B5F2-4A01-A0A5-78F3EA4B0A0E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC0270665A@blindmail.BISM.COM>

Good job Jordan! If you write any other letters and need additional
signatures as related to Facebook, please feel free to include mine

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Corbb O'Connor
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format
Changes

I commend you, Jordan, for writing to Facebook directly, and not just  
complaining about the inaccessibility. Good, proactive work!

Corbb

On Feb 13, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Jordan Richardson wrote:

Hello,

Concerning the new layout, there are some features that were made less
of a convenience.  For example, the inbox, now only accessible from
the homepage, used to be in the top bar, thus accessible everywhere.
I, and many others as you will see when you look in the various groups
and fan pages, would like you to go back to the old format.  This deal
with the top bar is one of those reasons.

On a blindness note, your site was generally easier to navigate under
the old site rather than the new site.  The old site had everything in
a line such that the left column led to the middle column which in
turn led to the right column.  Now, The left column leads to the right
column which leads to the middle column.  This took me several tries
to figure out, and it still is an inconvenience.  Plus, everything in
the right column used to be a heading so I could simply jump from
heading to heading to get to wherever it was I wanted to go.  This new
site has become one big inconvenience for both sighted and blind
users.

Furthermore, there was a poll about the new layout on facebook, and
the results showed that the majority of the people did not like the
new format.  I advise you to look at resources like this when making
big decisions like changing the format of your site.

Thank you,
Jordan Richardson
lilrichie411 at gmail.com

On 09/02/2010, Accessibility <accessibility 
+0fqsjrr at support.facebook.com> wrote:
> Hi Jordan,
>
> We appreciate your email. In the recent changes to Facebook, we moved
> requests to #2 in the tab order on the page: you should be able to  
> tab to it
> very quickly. We've also made all of the dynamic menus in the top  
> navigation
> bar accessible via a keyboard or JAWS. We believe very strongly in  
> building
> the best product for our users, and providing them with the best  
> experience
> we can. We hope that you find value in the changes we've made and will
> continue to enjoy using Facebook.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kristjan
> User Operations
> Facebook
>
>
>
> -----Original Message to Facebook-----
> From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com
> To: The Facebook Team
> Subject: Accessibility: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
>
> Subject: Regarding New Facebook Format Changes
> Assistive Technology and Version: JAWS
> Description: Monday, February 8, 2010
>
> Dear Facebook administration,
>
> My name is Jordan Richardson and I am one of the many blind members of
> Facebook.  I am e-mailing you regarding the recent change in format  
> of the
> facebook site.  This new format has made the already difficult  
> navigation of
> your site even harder and more confusing.  For example, with the  
> screen
> reading software called Job Access With Speech (JAWS) and your site's
> previous format all I had to do in order to get to requests was go  
> the last
> heading (status) on the page and arrow down until I heard "requests."
>
> This new format has not only blind users in an uproar, but many  
> sighted
> users as well.  As you will find when you look over your database  
> several
> fanpages and groups have been created in opposition to this new format
> change.  This is not, however, the only reason why many users are in  
> an
> uproar.  Many users of Facebook are in an uproar over the constant  
> change in
> format.  The problem with the blind users is that with each change,  
> there
> has been something else that was made more difficult to navigate  
> with any
> screen reading software.
>
> I am proposing, as many users will support, that you go back to the  
> previous
> format of your site and keep it as it was.  Many users are  
> frustrated that
> just as they get used to a new format, your administration seems to  
> change
> it.  I suggest that you poll your users to find out what they want  
> to see in
> Facebook.  If you are already doing this, I suggest that you broaden  
> your
> sample size.
>
> As you will find, many Facebook users are angry over the constant  
> change in
> format of your site.
>
> Thank you,
> Jordan Richardson
> richa878 at umn.edu
> (763) 742-8792
>
> Also signed on:
> Em Clark
> Andy Nichols
> Carrie Gilmer
> David Bouchard
> Amanda Percy
> Charlotte Czarnecki
> Jessica Trask
> Chelsea Henrizi
> Aubrie Lucas
> Mike FARKAS
> Sylvia Stewart
> Kaylee Neal
> Brie Beck
> Loretta Weathersbee
> Nikole Wieringa Muriithi
>
>
> -----End Original Message to Facebook-----
>
>


-- 
Jordan Richardson
2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students
lilrichie411 at gmail.com
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
--Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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rg


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Feb 17 02:34:51 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:34:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NIB Leadership Development Fellowships
Message-ID: <auto-000139750019@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Applications for the Fellowship at National Industries for the Blind 
are now being accepted.

The Fellowship for Leadership Development, sponsored by National 
Industries for the Blind (NIB), is a salaried, two-year program that 
combines business-focused, on-the-job experience with formal 
management training. Legally blind individuals who have an 
undergraduate degree, work experience and passion for business are 
invited to apply.  Fellows are selected based on academic 
achievement, experience, motivation, references, and personal 
interviews. Fellows, who completed the program, have moved to 
management jobs, gaining financial independence and, as business 
leaders, have added value at all levels of the workplace and society.

Go to the NIB Website at <http://www.nib.org/>www.nib.org and look 
under the Business Leaders Program section to learn more about the 
NIB Fellowship. Or:

For the Fellowship Frequently Asked Questions, please 
<http://www.nib.org/documents/Businessleaders/Application%20FAQ_feb5%2010.docx>click 
here.  Read FAQs before applying.

For the Fellowship Application Form, please 
<http://www.nib.org/documents/Businessleaders/Application%20Form_feb5%2010.docx>click 
here.

The application deadline is April 15, 2010. If you have questions, 
contact Sandy Finley, NIB Business Leaders Program, at 
<mailto:fellowship at nib.org>fellowship at nib.org or 703.310.0506.


From corbbo at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 07:16:20 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:16:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Not yet released,
	but details about a text-only Facebook site
Message-ID: <3B95D142-26FB-49F0-A626-4A85FF0F7D04@gmail.com>

 From @lavrusik on Twitter

"Facebook Launches Facebook Zero: A Light Weight Mobile Site - http://bit.ly/bGsH2F 
"


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 12:28:19 2010
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:28:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Not yet released,
	but details about a text-only Facebook site
In-Reply-To: <3B95D142-26FB-49F0-A626-4A85FF0F7D04@gmail.com>
References: <3B95D142-26FB-49F0-A626-4A85FF0F7D04@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57CB1E3442A74E2D8414DA845EF6BAC3@raniaPC>

Thanks for sharing! Maybe it will be more helpful for us screene reader
users?
Rania, 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Corbb O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:16 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; Virginia
Association of Blind Students list
Subject: [nabs-l] Not yet released,but details about a text-only Facebook
site

 From @lavrusik on Twitter

"Facebook Launches Facebook Zero: A Light Weight Mobile Site -
http://bit.ly/bGsH2F "

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2692 - Release Date: 02/16/10
14:35:00



From liz.bottner at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 20:54:36 2010
From: liz.bottner at gmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:54:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac
Message-ID: <4b7c578b.9d15f10a.2aa0.6914@mx.google.com>

I'm passing this on in the hopes that someone here may be able to help.

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gatton, Tonia (OFB-LV)
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:29 PM
Subject: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac

Hi!  I have a totally blind student for whom I'm teaching how to use the
PC with Jaws. However, she also has a new Mac with voice Over at home.
Since our Center does not have Mac computers and I'm not familiar  with
how to use one, she is taking classes to learn how to use it through the
local apple store.  The lady who is working with her is very helpful but
she's never taught a blind person nor used the Voice Over.  So, I'm
looking for someone who would be willing to provide support/advice as
needed to my student and her Mac instructor.  If that's you, please
email me your contact info and I'll pass it on.

Thanks so much!

Tonia       



Tonia Gatton
Rehab Instructor
KY Office for the blind
Charles W McDowell Center
8412 Westport Road
Louisville, KY 40242
800-346-2115
(502) 429-4460 ext 224
(502) 429-7113 fax
tonia.gatton at ky.gov




From iamantonio at cox.net  Wed Feb 17 21:34:14 2010
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 16:34:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind parents conference call
Message-ID: <66807DAC190E4D60B97B978E58CF6B2A@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello all,

Join the National Association of Blind Students and the membership committee in our latest conference call.

This time we have Melissa and Marc Riccobono to discussing parenting as a blind person, and couple.

Melissa is blind, and the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Md. She has been a leader in the Human Services Division.

Marc Riccobono is director of the NFB Jernigan Institute. His leadership and ideas help drive our movement.

Marc and Melissa are parents to Austin Riccobono, and they are expecting a second child.

Join the call on February 28 at 7:00 pm eastern, 6 central, 5 mountain, 4 pacific.

Dial 712-775-7100,
 access code 257963.

Whether you are a parent, or might become a blind parent in the future; if you are a care-taker; if you want to know the joys and trials or parenting, and the unique aspects of parenting as a blind person, help make this call a success by joining and participating. 

This call is for you, so make the best of it.

Antonio Guimaraes
Membership committee

From minesm at me.com  Wed Feb 17 22:56:02 2010
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:56:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac
Message-ID: <0KY000D8ZD0XML50@asmtp026.mac.com>

My name is Maurice Mines. I am a third year masters student at the University of Northern Colorado majoring in educational technology. I would be happy to help you and your students. You can reply to me at minesm at me.com. If you would like to call me, my number is 9703531044.  I love forward to speaking with you or your students.
Maurice Mines

-----Original Message-----
From: Liz Bottner <liz.bottner at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:54 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac

I'm passing this on in the hopes that someone here may be able to help.

Liz 

email: 
liz.bottner at gmail.com 
Visit my livejournal: 
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 
Follow me on Twitter: 
http://twitter.com/lizbot 


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gatton, Tonia (OFB-LV)
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:29 PM
Subject: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac

Hi!  I have a totally blind student for whom I'm teaching how to use the
PC with Jaws. However, she also has a new Mac with voice Over at home.
Since our Center does not have Mac computers and I'm not familiar  with
how to use one, she is taking classes to learn how to use it through the
local apple store.  The lady who is working with her is very helpful but
she's never taught a blind person nor used the Voice Over.  So, I'm
looking for someone who would be willing to provide support/advice as
needed to my student and her Mac instructor.  If that's you, please
email me your contact info and I'll pass it on.

Thanks so much!

Tonia       



Tonia Gatton
Rehab Instructor
KY Office for the blind
Charles W McDowell Center
8412 Westport Road
Louisville, KY 40242
800-346-2115
(502) 429-4460 ext 224
(502) 429-7113 fax
tonia.gatton at ky.gov



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com



From corbbo at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 00:32:53 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:32:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac
In-Reply-To: <0KY000D8ZD0XML50@asmtp026.mac.com>
References: <0KY000D8ZD0XML50@asmtp026.mac.com>
Message-ID: <AE57C79A-BFC2-455F-ACF5-2D468C347C22@gmail.com>

I'd suggest interested folks contact Tonia directly as she is likely  
not a member of this list. Her e-mail is below her message.


On Feb 17, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Maurice Mines wrote:

My name is Maurice Mines. I am a third year masters student at the  
University of Northern Colorado majoring in educational technology. I  
would be happy to help you and your students. You can reply to me at minesm at me.com 
. If you would like to call me, my number is 9703531044.  I love  
forward to speaking with you or your students.
Maurice Mines

-----Original Message-----
From: Liz Bottner <liz.bottner at gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:54 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
 >
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac

I'm passing this on in the hopes that someone here may be able to help.

Liz

email:
liz.bottner at gmail.com
Visit my livejournal:
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
Follow me on Twitter:
http://twitter.com/lizbot


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On  
Behalf
Of Gatton, Tonia (OFB-LV)
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:29 PM
Subject: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac

Hi!  I have a totally blind student for whom I'm teaching how to use the
PC with Jaws. However, she also has a new Mac with voice Over at home.
Since our Center does not have Mac computers and I'm not familiar  with
how to use one, she is taking classes to learn how to use it through the
local apple store.  The lady who is working with her is very helpful but
she's never taught a blind person nor used the Voice Over.  So, I'm
looking for someone who would be willing to provide support/advice as
needed to my student and her Mac instructor.  If that's you, please
email me your contact info and I'll pass it on.

Thanks so much!

Tonia



Tonia Gatton
Rehab Instructor
KY Office for the blind
Charles W McDowell Center
8412 Westport Road
Louisville, KY 40242
800-346-2115
(502) 429-4460 ext 224
(502) 429-7113 fax
tonia.gatton at ky.gov



_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
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From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Fri Feb 19 00:34:45 2010
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Dave Wright)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:34:45 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Easy Braille
Message-ID: <5D49B6C60D69412F93FF6ED5E8FFFC01@davidc0a1011d1>

    Handy Tech North America is pleased to offer a fantastic opportunity to
purchase the popular Handy Tech Easy Braille with HID and Bluetooth support
for an
awesome price!

Between now and March 31, 2010, purchase this high quality 40 cell
refreshable
Braille display and receive 10 percent off of the retail price of $4990.00
plus a new Asus 1005PE Net book computer for free!  

Enjoy a full functioning Windows 7 netbook computer and one of the world's
highest quality,
reliable and ergonomically designed portable 40 cell Braille displays on the
market today and for only about 2 thirds the cost of proprietary and more
limited personal computing solutions.

The Asus 1005pe netbook being offered with this limited time promotion price
consists of the Atom 1.66 MGHZ processor, 2 gb of RAM, 250 MB
hard drive and as mentioned earlier runs the Windows 7 Home Premium
operating system.  

The Handy Tech Easy Braille consists of 40 curved Braille cells, comfortable
and quiet keyboard that can be used for input or control, 4 rechargeable
triple A batteries, sleek carrying case with shoulder strap and a soft
pocket that can be used for a cell phone and supports both the HID (Human
Interface Device) and Bluetooth protocols so prevalent today.

If you would like to take advantage of this great bargain and would like to
find out more, please don't hesitate to contact us at:

Phone:  651-636-5184 extension 803

E-mail:
dave at handytech.us



Best regards,
   Dave Wright
Regional Sales Manager- Handy Tech North America
 
Phone:  651-636-5184 X803
 
Mobile: 347-422-7085
 
Fax:  866-347-8249
 
E-mail:
dave at handytech.us
Follow us on Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/handytechhtna
Web site:
http://www.handytech.us

From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 02:10:17 2010
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 21:10:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Nontrad returning to student status
Message-ID: <C17F5D6E0DD149688FF45D27EE72EC3C@D9P3ZND1>

Hello all:
It's great to rejoin the list. I was a member last in 2005.
I'm wondering if there are any nontraditional students on list. I'm a 26-year-old parent of a 1-year-old daughter. After an almost five year hiatus I am ready to complete my undergrad degree.
I am wondering if there are other students who could share their experiences returning to school after time off.
Were there unseen struggles or obstacles you had to face?
Did you do anything to prepare yourself to return to the classroom?

Those are my questions for now.
Thanks

Anjelina
Sent from my iPhone

From minesm at me.com  Fri Feb 19 03:09:33 2010
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:09:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac
In-Reply-To: <AE57C79A-BFC2-455F-ACF5-2D468C347C22@gmail.com>
References: <0KY000D8ZD0XML50@asmtp026.mac.com>
	<AE57C79A-BFC2-455F-ACF5-2D468C347C22@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E62A97CC-7477-47DF-B8D1-2558F3E10760@me.com>

done Maurice ham call kd0iko.
On Feb 18, 2010, at 5:32 PM, Corbb O'Connor wrote:

> I'd suggest interested folks contact Tonia directly as she is likely not a member of this list. Her e-mail is below her message.
> 
> 
> On Feb 17, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Maurice Mines wrote:
> 
> My name is Maurice Mines. I am a third year masters student at the University of Northern Colorado majoring in educational technology. I would be happy to help you and your students. You can reply to me at minesm at me.com. If you would like to call me, my number is 9703531044.  I love forward to speaking with you or your students.
> Maurice Mines
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Liz Bottner <liz.bottner at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:54 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac
> 
> I'm passing this on in the hopes that someone here may be able to help.
> 
> Liz
> 
> email:
> liz.bottner at gmail.com
> Visit my livejournal:
> http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com
> Follow me on Twitter:
> http://twitter.com/lizbot
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Gatton, Tonia (OFB-LV)
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:29 PM
> Subject: [nfbcs] Looking for blind users of the Mac
> 
> Hi!  I have a totally blind student for whom I'm teaching how to use the
> PC with Jaws. However, she also has a new Mac with voice Over at home.
> Since our Center does not have Mac computers and I'm not familiar  with
> how to use one, she is taking classes to learn how to use it through the
> local apple store.  The lady who is working with her is very helpful but
> she's never taught a blind person nor used the Voice Over.  So, I'm
> looking for someone who would be willing to provide support/advice as
> needed to my student and her Mac instructor.  If that's you, please
> email me your contact info and I'll pass it on.
> 
> Thanks so much!
> 
> Tonia
> 
> 
> 
> Tonia Gatton
> Rehab Instructor
> KY Office for the blind
> Charles W McDowell Center
> 8412 Westport Road
> Louisville, KY 40242
> 800-346-2115
> (502) 429-4460 ext 224
> (502) 429-7113 fax
> tonia.gatton at ky.gov
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Feb 19 04:29:34 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:29:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Stream 3.1 free upgrade
Message-ID: <auto-000140104955@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Dear Victor Reader Friends:

HumanWare is please to announce the release of new Stream 3.1
software. Stream 3.1 is a free release that responds to popular
requests received from many Stream customers. New features include:
- Multi-level Talking Books bookshelf. The ability to create nested
folders on the Other Books, Podcast, and Text File bookshelves
introduced in version 3.0 has been extended to include the Talking
Books bookshelf. You can now optionally create nested folders within
the $VRDTB bookshelf folder and navigate the structure while browsing
the Talking Books bookshelf.
- For our friends in Spain we now support the Spanish braille
electronic text files with a file type of .BRA. At the time of this
announcement the Spanish 3.1 is not yet available but we are working
with our partner in Spain to release it as soon as possible.
- The popular percentage announcement on the Where Am I key that
informs you how much of the book you have listened to has been
extended to Talking Books and Audible books.
- When you set a start position for a Highlight bookmark the End
position can now be set with a single key press of the Bookmark key.
- The navigation UNDO feature has been extended to the Go To Page
function.
- We have introduced two shortcuts to reach the start or end of a
book. To quickly jump to the beginning of a book press the Go To key
once and then press the Rewind key once. To reach the end of the book
press the Go To key and then the Fast Forward key.
- When you press Cancel to end a recording the Stream will now ask you
to confirm. This prevents stopping a recording accidentally.
- Stream 3.1 will allow you to copy DAISY books from USB flash media
such as flash memory sticks or the NLS cartridges used by the NLS
library in the USA and the AFWA library in Western Australia. Each USB
flash book must be in its own folder. When you attach a cartridge or
flash media the Stream will automatically start playing the first
DAISY book on the media. Once the book is playing you can optionally
press key 3 to copy it to the Talking Books bookshelf of your SD card.
Stream 3.1 also includes several bug fixes. Please see the Release
Notes for full details.
Both the software and Release Notes can be downloaded from the Stream
support page at:
http://www.humanware.com/stream_support
Select the Software link on that page. You will find the Release Notes
at the top of the English 3.1 software download links. You can choose
from two English versions one with Samantha + Tom text-to-speech
voices and another with Samantha + Daniel (UK) voices. You can upgrade
to version 3.1 from any prior Stream version. To install the new
software, follow these steps:
- Download the software zip file
- Unzip the single UPG upgrade file from the zip file. You do not need
special unzip software. Simply press Enter to open the zip file and
you can then select the UPG file.
- Copy this UPG file to the root of your Stream SD card.
- Disconnect the Stream from the computer, connect it to AC power and
turn it on.
- The Stream will automatically start the update process which takes
about 2 minutes during which time it will announce intermittent
"please Wait" messages. The Stream will power off when the new
software is installed.
- When you power back on the UPG file will be automatically removed
from your SD card.
After the new software is installed, an html Release Notes document
will also be available in a HumanWare sub-folder of your Text
Bookshelf so you may read the Release Notes with your Stream. The html
version allows you to navigate the Release Notes section by section
using the 2/8 keys to select the level and keys 4 and 6 to move
between sections.
With this announcement, version 3.1 is available in Danish, Dutch,
English, Finnish, French, German, Norwegian, Polish, and Swedish. As
other languages become available they will be posted on the same
download page. We also are working on a new version of the Stream
Companion software for Windows which will be announced on the Newswire
when it is available.
HumanWare values your continued support of the Victor Reader Stream.
We remain committed to our customers to make the Stream the most
powerful, flexible, and enjoyable product used for listening to
digital talking books, computer files, and music.

Thank you,
The HumanWare Team



From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Fri Feb 19 19:54:59 2010
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 11:54:59 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] link to subscribe
Message-ID: <EE3397941E5E4D2A96A78CBD490C1454@windows4c0ed96>

Hi list, could someone please give me the direct link  to subscribe to the list so I can forward it to a student here in San Diego?  I think this link is embedded in every one of our  e mails, but I am not sure.  Many thanks, Ginny

From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org  Fri Feb 19 20:34:49 2010
From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:34:49 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Nontrad returning to student status
References: <C17F5D6E0DD149688FF45D27EE72EC3C@D9P3ZND1>
Message-ID: <8200D8FE070D4BA2AF7800F1A765B15F@PAULLAPTOP>

Hi Anjelina,  I'm Maryann Migliorelli.  You could definitely call me a non 
traditional student.  I'm starting back to school after twenty years away 
from the classroom.  I'm trying to do things like boning up on my math and 
writing skills and learning my way around the state rehab and application 
processes again.
I'm up for any advice the same way you are.
Best of luck to you.
Maryann Migliorelli




From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 20:55:39 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:55:39 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Nontrad returning to student status
In-Reply-To: <C17F5D6E0DD149688FF45D27EE72EC3C@D9P3ZND1>
References: <C17F5D6E0DD149688FF45D27EE72EC3C@D9P3ZND1>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002191255k4355f767pe0646c292d61f71d@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Anjelina,

 I myself took five years off before starting  college, I currently am
a student at a community college in San Francisca.
  What i tried to do was familiarize myself with  the campus it's
recourses and  it's layout.   I also got my classes as early as I
could and sat  down  with  a counsoler in the disabled students
programs and services office about as early as I could too.
 I guess, what I am saying  is that I tried to  research  and act
early.  One  thing I didn't do was  tap  the resources of  fellow
blind students and that seems to be something that you've done and are
obviously doing now.
  Just even being mindful of what   accomidations you are going to
need and  if you have  anyb access technology that you are intending
on using; doing your best to know it  pretty well.
  I know these are things that I've tried, but  of  course I am but
one student  trying to figure it all out in the grand scheme of
scholastics as it relates to  us as blind  students.
  I hope that helps and welcome back to the list!
  Darian

On 2/18/10, Anjelina <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all:
> It's great to rejoin the list. I was a member last in 2005.
> I'm wondering if there are any nontraditional students on list. I'm a
> 26-year-old parent of a 1-year-old daughter. After an almost five year
> hiatus I am ready to complete my undergrad degree.
> I am wondering if there are other students who could share their experiences
> returning to school after time off.
> Were there unseen struggles or obstacles you had to face?
> Did you do anything to prepare yourself to return to the classroom?
>
> Those are my questions for now.
> Thanks
>
> Anjelina
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From JFreeh at nfb.org  Sat Feb 20 03:27:31 2010
From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh,
	Jessica)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:27:31 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] AP: Judge says no quick ruling on Google book plans
Message-ID: <auto-000140608546@mailfront1.g2host.com>


[]


Judge says no quick ruling on Google book plans

By LARRY NEUMEISTER (AP) – 21 hours ago

NEW YORK ­ Supporters of Google's effort to 
create the world's largest digital library 
Internet told a federal judge Thursday that it would benefit society.

Marc Maurer, president of the National Federation 
of the Blind, said the audio capabilities of 
Google's system "will give us access to 10 million books."

One of the opponents ­ which include authors, 
foreign governments, corporate rivals and even 
the U.S. Department of Justice ­ countered at a 
packed court hearing in Manhattan that Google's 
plans were more about commerce, not access to books.

"It's not going to be a great library, it's going 
to be a good store," said Sarah Canzoneri, a 
member of the Children's Book Guild and plaintiff 
in a lawsuit by authors and publishers.

U.S. District Judge Denny Chin already has read 
more than 500 submissions about a $125 million 
settlement aimed at ending a pair of 2005 
lawsuits that tried to stop Google from scanning 
books into a gigantic online database.

On Thursday, he was hearing statements from 
interested parties before deciding whether 
changes made to a deal first announced in October 
2008 are sufficient to withstand constitutional scrutiny.

"To end the suspense, I'm not going to rule 
today," he said at the start. "There is just too much to digest."

He added, "Voluminous materials have been 
submitted. There is a lot of repetition. Some of 
the submissions even quote other submissions."

In court papers submitted last week, Google Inc., 
which is based in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns 
= "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
/>Mountain View, Calif., defended its deal with 
authors by saying its digital library lives up to 
the purpose of copyright law, which is to create 
and distribute expressive works.

"No one seriously disputes that approval of the 
settlement will open the virtual doors to the 
greatest library in history, without costing 
authors a dime they now receive or are likely to 
receive if the settlement is not approved," Google said.

The Department of Justice said Google and the 
plaintiffs have made substantial improvements to 
the original settlement, but it said "substantial issues remain."

It said the new deal raised antitrust concerns 
and suffered from the same core issue as the 
original agreement because it establishes 
forward-looking business arrangements that 
"confer significant and possibly anticompetitive 
advantages on a single entity ­ Google."

Still, the Department of Justice said it believes 
an approvable settlement may be achievable, 
perhaps by requiring rights holders to opt in to the settlement.

France and Germany, which oppose the settlement, 
noted they support a European book-scanning 
project, Europeana, because it is in compliance 
with their laws and requires permission from 
copyright holders before books are scanned.

Obtaining permission beforehand is what 
<http://amazon.com/>Amazon.com Inc. said it did 
when it engaged in a similar book-scanning 
project. Amazon's lawyers oppose the Google 
settlement and have asked to address the court. 
Other Google rivals including Microsoft Corp. and Yahoo Inc. also oppose it.

Among authors opposing the deal are folk singer 
Arlo Guthrie and writer Catherine Ryan Hyde, 
whose novel "Pay it Forward" was adapted and released as a movie.

"While I believe that the proposed Google Books 
Settlement has the potential to provide authors 
with additional exposure and perhaps additional 
sources of revenue for their works," Hyde wrote, 
"I continue to believe that the proposed 
settlement as amended remains critically flawed 
and is unfair to authors in a number of crucial respects."

Lawyers for the plaintiffs who brought the 2005 
lawsuits defended the settlement. Their 
submission to the judge said there were 
relatively few complaints, considering the 
ambitious plan to digitize all the world's books, 
and that many opponents "advance competitive and 
other parochial self-interests" that conflict 
with the broader interests of the publishing industry.

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.



__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, 
version of virus signature database 4878 (20100218) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

<http://www.eset.com>http://www.eset.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Feb 20 03:43:43 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:43:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] link to subscribe
In-Reply-To: <EE3397941E5E4D2A96A78CBD490C1454@windows4c0ed96>
References: <EE3397941E5E4D2A96A78CBD490C1454@windows4c0ed96>
Message-ID: <auto-000140250374@mailfront2.g2host.com>

The link to subscribe is:

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org

Dave

At 01:54 PM 2/19/2010, you wrote:
>Hi list, could someone please give me the direct link  to subscribe 
>to the list so I can forward it to a student here in San Diego?  I 
>think this link is embedded in every one of our  e mails, but I am 
>not sure.  Many thanks, Ginny



From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net  Sat Feb 20 04:06:51 2010
From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 20:06:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
Message-ID: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>

Hey everyone,
I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs 
on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a msg, 
a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why 
this is happening?
Thanks,
Hannah


From cnaylor073 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 04:28:48 2010
From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:28:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
In-Reply-To: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>
References: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>
Message-ID: <54f02f11002192028s4571c07g179e175f0675fc53@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah when I tried replying to someone's message, it wouldn't let me
reply and it had some sort of text I couldn't erase.

On 2/19/10, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs
> on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a msg,
> a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why
> this is happening?
> Thanks,
> Hannah
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com
>


-- 

Christina
25 with bilateral facial cleft and total blindness.
www. worldcf.org/forums


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 04:35:12 2010
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:35:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
In-Reply-To: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>
References: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>
Message-ID: <4383d01d1002192035h1cc9c203jed47cb5806b02a1c@mail.gmail.com>

I've never had this problem.  Are you refering to chat messages or
just plain messages in general?
Beth

On 2/19/10, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
> I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs
> on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a msg,
> a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why
> this is happening?
> Thanks,
> Hannah
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>


From kc2992a at student.american.edu  Sat Feb 20 15:07:27 2010
From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:07:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
In-Reply-To: <4383d01d1002192035h1cc9c203jed47cb5806b02a1c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>
	<4383d01d1002192035h1cc9c203jed47cb5806b02a1c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2fdbeb321002200707q631e81feq555ad3ee95281d3e@mail.gmail.com>

I've been having trouble with facebook in that I can type a message or post
a link, but when I click "Send" or "Post", nothing happens. It's very
frustrating. Not sure what to do about it.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've never had this problem.  Are you refering to chat messages or
> just plain messages in general?
> Beth
>
> On 2/19/10, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
> > Hey everyone,
> > I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs
> > on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a msg,
> > a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why
> > this is happening?
> > Thanks,
> > Hannah
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>



-- 
Kathryn CARROLL
American University
631 521 3018

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sat Feb 20 16:47:16 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:47:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
In-Reply-To: <2fdbeb321002200707q631e81feq555ad3ee95281d3e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>
	<4383d01d1002192035h1cc9c203jed47cb5806b02a1c@mail.gmail.com>
	<2fdbeb321002200707q631e81feq555ad3ee95281d3e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002200847o1813c326i69f157005bbc2e4d@mail.gmail.com>

I'm thinking that it  is probably a site issue, not so much anything
anybody's doing wrong.
   Darian

On 2/20/10, Katy Carroll <kc2992a at student.american.edu> wrote:
> I've been having trouble with facebook in that I can type a message or post
> a link, but when I click "Send" or "Post", nothing happens. It's very
> frustrating. Not sure what to do about it.
>
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've never had this problem.  Are you refering to chat messages or
>> just plain messages in general?
>> Beth
>>
>> On 2/19/10, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
>> > Hey everyone,
>> > I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs
>> > on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a msg,
>> > a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why
>> > this is happening?
>> > Thanks,
>> > Hannah
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kathryn CARROLL
> American University
> 631 521 3018
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sat Feb 20 16:58:35 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:58:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
References: <20100220040448.ZHME23562.omta02.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote><4383d01d1002192035h1cc9c203jed47cb5806b02a1c@mail.gmail.com><2fdbeb321002200707q631e81feq555ad3ee95281d3e@mail.gmail.com>
	<409c235c1002200847o1813c326i69f157005bbc2e4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101cab24d$f10f0600$0201a8c0@Serene>

Those of you who are having trouble with facebook, which site are you using? 
The regular, visual site?  Or m.facebook.com?  The answer could make a 
difference as far as why you're having trouble.  If it's the visual site, 
it's probably not cooperating w/ the version of Jaws (or whatever screen 
reader or enlargement program) you're using.  If it's m.facebook.com, the 
site is probably just messed up and will be ok later or tomorrow.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about facebook


> I'm thinking that it  is probably a site issue, not so much anything
> anybody's doing wrong.
>   Darian
>
> On 2/20/10, Katy Carroll <kc2992a at student.american.edu> wrote:
>> I've been having trouble with facebook in that I can type a message or 
>> post
>> a link, but when I click "Send" or "Post", nothing happens. It's very
>> frustrating. Not sure what to do about it.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've never had this problem.  Are you refering to chat messages or
>>> just plain messages in general?
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> On 2/19/10, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
>>> > Hey everyone,
>>> > I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs
>>> > on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a msg,
>>> > a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why
>>> > this is happening?
>>> > Thanks,
>>> > Hannah
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> >
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kathryn CARROLL
>> American University
>> 631 521 3018
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Darian Smith
> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org  Sat Feb 20 17:58:45 2010
From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:58:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] e book reader questions
Message-ID: <D034A4D6437C4E9C994C6B92771425FB@PAULLAPTOP>

Hello,  I'm wondering what book readers people are using for there electronic textbooks.  Is anyone using myscribe?  Are there scripts to be found anywhere?
Thanks for the help.
Maryann Migliorelli

From sparklylicious at suddenlink.net  Sat Feb 20 18:35:21 2010
From: sparklylicious at suddenlink.net (hannah)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] question about facebook
Message-ID: <20100220183313.CIWE29667.omta01.suddenlink.net@BrailleNote>

Just plain msgs using mobile facebook...

> ----- Original Message -----
>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:35:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about facebook

>I've never had this problem.  Are you refering to chat messages 
or
>just plain messages in general?
>Beth

>On 2/19/10, hannah <sparklylicious at suddenlink.net> wrote:
>> Hey everyone,
>> I'm just wondering if anyone else is having trouble sending msgs
>> on facebook.  Every time I try to send, delete or reply to a 
msg,
>> a msg comes up saying, "content not found." Does anyone know why
>> this is happening?
>> Thanks,
>> Hannah

>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesi
sloose%40gmail.com


>_______________________________________________
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>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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cious%40suddenlink.net


From minesm at me.com  Sun Feb 21 02:49:22 2010
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:49:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Question- Non Scientific Survey
Message-ID: <A8D31770-3A48-4CA9-9E2B-1503A96C81F0@me.com>

Hello NABsters,

I am T. A. -ing at the University of Northern Colorado in a teacher education class that deals with technology. The issue has come up in class discussion about students listening to music and or doing other things while doing their school work. I am curious as to  how many of you guys do any of this while using JAWS and or Window eyes? I am going to use a general consensus- no personal information will be shared with my class  and if there turn out to be a lot of responses then send me your response personally so that we don't bog down the list.

Maurice Mines
minesm at me.com
Amateur Radio Call Signal: kd0ikl


From skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 03:41:28 2010
From: skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com (Karrie Kinstetter)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 21:41:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Proper reintroduction
Message-ID: <026101cab2a7$c14c8320$43e58960$@com>

Hello Nabsters,

I've been on this list for about 2 years and responding to stuff here and
there but haven't done a proper introduction

For those of you who have me on messenger, facebook, twitter and the like
you already probably know a lot about me.

My name is Karrie Kinstetter. I'm 22 years old and am from Wisconsin. I go
to Northeast Wisconsin technical college and am not quite sure what I'm
majoring in, but intend to get certificates in social and human services and
behavioral studies. I'm also working toward a certificate in cultural
studies.

I hope someday to go a university and maybe major in social work or
psychology since both of those subjects interest me.

I also live on a farm and have possibly 20 or 30 cats some beef cattle and a
black lab named Hunter who has lots of energy for his age of 7 years.

I hope to learn a lot from this list.

Sincerely,

Karrie Kinstetter


From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Sun Feb 21 04:45:22 2010
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:45:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] probably OT  Facebook Picture Question
Message-ID: <000401cab2b0$af610600$0e231200$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>

Hi all,
Someone uploaded my facebook profile picture for me but now I'd like to use
it for something else. Is there any way of finding out the location of the
picture so I can find it again on my computer?
Thanks,
Sarah



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 16:03:33 2010
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 08:03:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Proper reintroduction
In-Reply-To: <026101cab2a7$c14c8320$43e58960$@com>
References: <026101cab2a7$c14c8320$43e58960$@com>
Message-ID: <409c235c1002210803q3c42522fmccaa4a9715fee13e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi  Karrie,

  Thank you for taking the time to re-introduce  yourself to the list
- it is much appreciated.
 I now  know a little more  about you than I did before! :)
 Take care,
  Darian

On 2/20/10, Karrie Kinstetter <skittlesfreak69 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Nabsters,
>
> I've been on this list for about 2 years and responding to stuff here and
> there but haven't done a proper introduction
>
> For those of you who have me on messenger, facebook, twitter and the like
> you already probably know a lot about me.
>
> My name is Karrie Kinstetter. I'm 22 years old and am from Wisconsin. I go
> to Northeast Wisconsin technical college and am not quite sure what I'm
> majoring in, but intend to get certificates in social and human services and
> behavioral studies. I'm also working toward a certificate in cultural
> studies.
>
> I hope someday to go a university and maybe major in social work or
> psychology since both of those subjects interest me.
>
> I also live on a farm and have possibly 20 or 30 cats some beef cattle and a
> black lab named Hunter who has lots of energy for his age of 7 years.
>
> I hope to learn a lot from this list.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Karrie Kinstetter
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith
Skype: The_Blind_Truth
Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
help!   To Get Involved  go to:
www.TeachBlindStudents.org


From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 16:34:16 2010
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:34:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Quick Note
Message-ID: <4A5516E81BBC4F91BD96251945586FD6@TheDjdInvasion>

Hi!
As I do each month, wanted to let you know that tonight is another edition of The Djd Invasion on Radio360 starting at 8 PM eastern, and we'll be combining the show with the birthday party we'll be having this evening, so if you want to join, come listen at this special link for this week, since the site is having some difficulties. The link is
http://www.wdjm3.com/players/playerselection.html
Hope to see you there!
Best regards,
David Dunphy, host of The Djd Invasion
http://www.radio360.us


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4881 (20100219) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


From jj at bestmidi.com  Sun Feb 21 17:18:16 2010
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:18:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Big Article in Kalamazoo Gazette on CHristine Boone
Message-ID: <38023FCE688F49EDAA7EC8C805AE31E1@jage>

Photo: John A. Lacko Christine Boone, former director of the Michigan Commission for the
Blind Training Center was fired from the job in January for developing a marksmanship
class at the school.
KALAMAZOO
 - Allowing blind students to shoot pellet guns at an outdoor target on school property
showed such an egregious lack of judgment, state officials say, that Christine Boone
was fired from her $96,000 job.
But Boone, 50, former director of the Michigan Commission for the Blind Training
Center in Kalamazoo, said the school's mission is to open doors for blind students
to allow them to "participate in every activity of daily living."
Boone said she was doing just that - empowering blind students - when she designed
a marksmanship class. Her boss, Patrick Cannon, director of the Michigan Commission
for the Blind in Lansing, gave his verbal consent, she said, when she discussed the
idea with him in March 2009.
On Feb. 4, she was fired.
Last Wednesday, she filed an appeal to her dismissal.
In a written statement provided to the Kalamazoo Gazette, Boone said that since her
appointment as director in 2006 she had regularly upgraded the school's curriculum
to meet student needs - such as replacing outdated typing classes with computer training,
introducing specialized technology to level the playing field between blind professionals
and their sighted colleagues, and establishing a peer-support system for blind college
students.
Through it all, Cannon had been a strong supporter, Boone said. Her performance reviews
were excellent, Boone said; only once had she received criticism when she missed
a record-keeping deadline after an illness.
In 2008, when Boone participated with a group of the school's students in a skydiving
jump, the Michigan Commission for the Blind's public-relations director helped publicize
the outing with a headline on a Web site story that read: "Blind Skydivers Challenge
Stereotypes."
So Boone was stunned, she said, to be fired for allowing a weekly class of adult
students to use two spring-loaded pellet rifles to shoot at a foam-covered plywood
target.
"You cannot have firearms on state property," said Mario Morrow, director of communications
for the Michigan Department of Energy, Labor and Economic Growth, who is handling
all media calls on the case. "It's  a safety-work-rule violation, a serious work-rule
violation.
"She created a curriculum where she taught the blind students how to shoot guns.
It was determined that she was to be terminated, immediately," Morrow said.
Morrow said Cannon asked for the investigation of Boone.
 "It has a lot to do with a judgment - he lost faith in her judgment," said Morrow,
who said he could only comment on the firing, not the investigation that led to Boone's
dismissal. "You design a class, you go out and purchase firearms and put them in
the hands of students."
Morrow denied Boone was given permission to conduct the class.  The Kalamazoo Gazette
was unable to reach Cannon, who was on vacation.
Program praised
Students must be legally blind and at least 16 years old to attend the training center,
a school located on 23 acres at 1541 Oakland Drive.  The school each year serves
about 165 students who live on campus.
"Several students found this (marksmanship) class to be life-changing, giving them,
at long last, the belief that they truly could achieve the same degree of excellence
in their lives as blind persons as they would have done as sighted individuals,"
Boone said.
The potential for that kind of outcome was what prompted Boone to spend six months
working with the school's recreation coordinator to develop the curriculum for the
marksmanship class. When the recreation coordinator was unable to arrange to hold
the class at an off-campus site, Boone said, the class's instructor inquired with
the Michigan State Police and the Kalamazoo Department of Public Safety about the
legality of conducting the class on campus. Boone said the instructor learned the
class could be held on campus using the spring-loaded pellet guns because they were
not considered to be firearms under state law.
 Center staff purchased two pellet rifles at a local Meijer Inc. store and set up
the targets in a wooded area in a ravine behind the school. The guns were stored
in a locked area.
The first class, for adults only, was held in mid-September, Boone said, and was
judged an overwhelming success by students and staff.
 So favorable was the response that Boone mentioned the new class in her presentation
at the annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan in November.
That's when she learned her boss was not happy, Boone said.
Class canceled
After Boone's presentation, Cannon telephoned her at home that same day and ordered
her to cancel the class.  He told her to meet with him in Lansing the next morning
and to bring the guns with her.
She suspended the class and reported to her meeting with Cannon, she said, but did
not bring the pellet guns with her for fear they might be mistaken for real weapons
at his office building in Lansing.
She said Cannon was furious she had not brought the guns with her. He insisted he
had confirmed the guns did qualify as firearms under state rules, and arranged to
have another staff person bring the weapons to him later that week. He told Boone
they would be destroyed.
A follow-up e-mail to Boone from Cannon said they would discuss the matter more after
he returned from a business trip.
But a week after meeting with Cannon, Boone was placed on emergency medical leave
when a congenital  problem with her leg and foot flared up and required treatment
at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. Doctors there ordered her not to work.
On Dec. 30, while still on medical leave, she was told to attend a meeting with Cannon
and her department's director of human relations.
She said she brought documentation that the pellet guns used did not meet the Civil
Service Workplace Safety definition of a firearm as "a weapon from which a dangerous
projectile may be expelled by explosive, gas or air."  The guns purchased were spring-loaded.
But she was never allowed to present her full case, said Boone, who has 30 years
of work in rehabilitation services and a law degree.
Boone said the work-safety rule she was accused of breaking lists numerous exceptions
to permit use of firearms, including getting permission from the proper authority.
When Boone insisted Cannon had given permission for the class, she said he acknowledged
remembering the conversation but he thought the class would be conducted off campus.
When she asked why that was not considered in her defense, Boone said she was told
by the director of human relations "that Mr. Cannon did not know what he was approving."
Morrow said civil service disciplinary action in Boone's case could have included
a warning or written reprimand.  But she was fired by Cannon, Morrow said, because
Boone's judgment "weighed heavily, as well as losing the confidence of her supervisors."
 Boone's supporters remain angry.
"This is as close to corruption as I've ever seen," said Larry Posont, president
of the National Federation of the Blind of Michigan, who organized a rally in Lansing
to protest Boone's dismissal. "When someone has the power Pat Cannon has, it's wrong.
Anybody who stands up to him, gets fired."

From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 21 22:45:41 2010
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 17:45:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Question- Non Scientific Survey
In-Reply-To: <A8D31770-3A48-4CA9-9E2B-1503A96C81F0@me.com>
References: <A8D31770-3A48-4CA9-9E2B-1503A96C81F0@me.com>
Message-ID: <5096b4731002211445y2fb38c42ifc8a3aa5a4693231@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Maurice,
  This is an interesting question. I don't listen to music or any
other sort of audio media when I use JAWS as it is simply too much of
a distraction, but I do listen to music sometimes when I do work on my
Braille Note, wich is similar to what sighted students do while they
read or write.
   Katie

On 2/20/10, Maurice Mines <minesm at me.com> wrote:
> Hello NABsters,
>
> I am T. A. -ing at the University of Northern Colorado in a teacher
> education class that deals with technology. The issue has come up in class
> discussion about students listening to music and or doing other things while
> doing their school work. I am curious as to  how many of you guys do any of
> this while using JAWS and or Window eyes? I am going to use a general
> consensus- no personal information will be shared with my class  and if
> there turn out to be a lot of responses then send me your response
> personally so that we don't bog down the list.
>
> Maurice Mines
> minesm at me.com
> Amateur Radio Call Signal: kd0ikl
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Feb 23 03:01:53 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:01:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Seeking Students for Braille Study
Message-ID: <auto-000140548188@mailfront2.g2host.com>

[Flyer for Students: Announcement of Study]

Seeking Students for Research Study

Students who are between the ages of 16 and 22 years who are braille 
readers and users of assistive technology are needed for a study. 
This study will explore how you use both braille and electronic 
information for classroom work, and how you learned these literacy 
practices. The purpose of this research will be to add to our 
understanding of the current role of both hard-copy (paper) braille 
and use of electronic access to information by people who are blind 
from ages 16-22, and your attitudes and perceptions about both 
braille and technology. This information will inform how we prepare 
pre-service teachers to instruct young braille readers.

If you are interested in participating in this study or getting more 
information, please contact me via email at  fmd22 at pitt.edu, by 
calling 412-521-5797, or by writing to me at:
Frances Mary D'Andrea
5513 Posvar Hall
University of Pittsburgh
Pittsburgh PA 15260

If you are under 18, you MUST have your parents' or guardians' 
permission. A consent form will be send to you in braille or 
electronically after you verify that you are:
1. between the ages of 16-22
2. a student enrolled in school
3. a braille reader
4. a user of electronic assistive technology devices, hardware, or software.
If you are under 18, your parents will also receive a consent form 
that must be signed before you can participate.

Let me know if you have any questions. Thank you for your interest!

Frances Mary D'Andrea



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Feb 23 03:12:29 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:12:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Survey on Synthesized Speech and Audio Description
Message-ID: <auto-000140950384@mailfront1.g2host.com>

We have been asked to circulate the following:

Dave


February 19, 2010

Recruiting Now for a Survey on Synthesized Speech and Audio Description

IBM Research-Japan and WGBH's Carl and Ruth Shapiro Family National 
Center for Accessible Media (NCAM) are conducting a joint study via 
an online survey
on the applicability of speech synthesis for audio description of 
Web-based video.

Adults (18+ years of age) who are blind or have low vision will be 
asked to share their opinions about a few short video clips which 
include synthesized
description.

NCAM is seeking participants with a range of familiarity with 
synthesized speech (from little or none to regular users) and as well 
as familiarity with
audio description (from little or none to regular users).

Interested in sharing your opinion? Please send an email to
access at wgbh.org
with "participate" in the subject line. Once the online survey is 
posted on or about March 1, you will be sent an email with the 
survey's Web site address
and asked to complete the survey by Friday, March 12. The survey, 
which will be accessible via screen-reading software, should take no 
longer than one
half hour.

NCAM will summarize and share the results of the survey once user 
opinions are analyzed.

NOTE: This is an early investigation into a subject many people who 
are blind or have low-vision have asked about for many years. Though 
we are conducting
this study, WGBH does not intend to substitute synthesized speech for 
human voices on the programs and movies we currently describe. 
Following this narrow
and limited initial study, further research will be required to 
expand the scope of investigation into larger populations, other 
types of media and other
parameters.

Thank you!

Mary

-- 
Mary Watkins
Director of Communications
   and Outreach
Media Access Group at WGBH
One Guest Street
Boston, MA  02135
617 300-3700
mary_watkins at wgbh.org
access.wgbh.org

Follow the Media Access Group on Facebook and Twitter (AccessWGBH)

WGBH Boston informs, inspires, and entertains millions through public
broadcasting, the Web, educational multimedia, and access services for
people with disabilities.



From corbbo at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 05:46:57 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:46:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] probably OT  Facebook Picture Question
In-Reply-To: <000401cab2b0$af610600$0e231200$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>
References: <000401cab2b0$af610600$0e231200$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <6CC2E014-6C56-4028-9514-DCBCCA37710A@gmail.com>

You can re-download the profile picture by right-clicking the profile  
photo. But that will be a lower quality, smaller photo than you  
initially uploaded. You cannot get the location of the original file  
still on your computer from Facebook. Maybe your friend could help you  
find it again?

Corbb


On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:

Hi all,
Someone uploaded my facebook profile picture for me but now I'd like  
to use
it for something else. Is there any way of finding out the location of  
the
picture so I can find it again on my computer?
Thanks,
Sarah


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
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From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Tue Feb 23 06:11:47 2010
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:11:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] probably OT  Facebook Picture Question
In-Reply-To: <6CC2E014-6C56-4028-9514-DCBCCA37710A@gmail.com>
References: <000401cab2b0$af610600$0e231200$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>
	<6CC2E014-6C56-4028-9514-DCBCCA37710A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009001cab44f$150fe620$3f2fb260$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>

Thanks :) I got someone to save it for me and send the .jpg file.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Corbb O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:47 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] probably OT Facebook Picture Question

You can re-download the profile picture by right-clicking the profile  
photo. But that will be a lower quality, smaller photo than you  
initially uploaded. You cannot get the location of the original file  
still on your computer from Facebook. Maybe your friend could help you  
find it again?

Corbb


On Feb 20, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:

Hi all,
Someone uploaded my facebook profile picture for me but now I'd like  
to use
it for something else. Is there any way of finding out the location of  
the
picture so I can find it again on my computer?
Thanks,
Sarah


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40uto
ronto.ca



From brownbears at mchsi.com  Tue Feb 23 19:36:52 2010
From: brownbears at mchsi.com (Miranda brown)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:36:52 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about HR 734
Message-ID: <661E6DD626CF479CA56BEA5111EBE3D1@MIRANDA>

I was wondering does anyone know how many co-sponsors we have for the bill
H.R. 734 and S. 841? I am writing a paper for my Comp class and would like
to include this. 
 

From jj at bestmidi.com  Tue Feb 23 20:45:16 2010
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:45:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about HR 734
References: <661E6DD626CF479CA56BEA5111EBE3D1@MIRANDA>
Message-ID: <598B7B9125B345D59DCA2E546A29901D@jage>

195 and 25 respectively.
Go to http://thomas.loc.gov where you can search for yourself.
Hope this helps.

J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com
A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Miranda brown" <brownbears at mchsi.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:36 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about HR 734


>I was wondering does anyone know how many co-sponsors we have for the bill
> H.R. 734 and S. 841? I am writing a paper for my Comp class and would like
> to include this.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com
> 



From seacknit at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 01:34:24 2010
From: seacknit at gmail.com (Sally Thomas)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 19:34:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
Message-ID: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>

Hi,

I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.

Sally Thomas

From fschroeder at sks.com  Thu Feb 25 03:16:40 2010
From: fschroeder at sks.com (Fredric Schroeder)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:16:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Passing of Seville Allen
Message-ID: <auto-000140915672@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Friends,

It is with unimaginable sadness that I inform you of the passing of Seville
Allen.  Seville has been ill for some time and this afternoon she passed
away.  I had the great privilege to spend some time with her yesterday
afternoon.  While ill and very weak, Seville was engaged and the fighter we
all knew.

As soon as I have details about funeral arrangements, I will pass that
along.  In the meantime, please join me in grieving the passing of a true
leader, mentor, leader and friend.

Fred Schroeder



From fschroeder at sks.com  Thu Feb 25 03:15:01 2010
From: fschroeder at sks.com (Fredric Schroeder)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 21:15:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Memorial Service for Seville Allen
Message-ID: <auto-000140916069@mailfront2.g2host.com>

Friends,

As you know, our dear friend and colleague Seville Allen passed away
yesterday, February 23.  A memorial service has been scheduled for Saturday,
March 13th at 2:00 PM.  The service will be held at Saint George's Episcopal
Church, 915 North Oakland Street in Arlington.  Please come and celebrate
Seville's life and the difference she made in expanding opportunities for
blind people in Virginia and the nation.

Gifts in Seville's memory can be made to the National Federation of the
Blind of Virginia or to Seville's church.

To contribute to the Federation, please send donations to:

Mark Roane, Treasurer
National Federation of the Blind of Virginia
702-5 Prince Edward St.
Fredericksburg, VA 22401
Please make checks payable to NFB of Virginia, Inc.

To contribute to Seville's church, please send donations to:

St George's Episcopal Church
915 North Oakland Street, Arlington, VA 22203-1916
(703) 525-8286
www.saintgeorgeschurch.org

Sincerely yours,

Fred Schroeder, President
National Federation of the Blind of Virginia



From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 14:45:41 2010
From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:45:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>

Hello Sally,

As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application can
be subjective. 
 
If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
then, perhaps, some modification is in order.

Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their technology,
so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.

On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
JAWS.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Darrell

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sally Thomas
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?

Hi,

I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader
on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer
with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used
both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
would be greatly appreciated.

Sally Thomas
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
mail.com



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 14:55:42 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 06:55:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
References: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <5BD0AD93-5F45-4508-BA0D-40EC663F7152@gmail.com>

I do use both the  and  it is not fair to compare screen readers like that . The windows and mac are 2 totally  different operating systems. That beeing said though voice over, the screen reader for the mac has a very high learning curve but it can be done. Jaws does everything for you but the mac screen reader makes you do everything. Make sense?

Take care. 
On Feb 25, 2010, at 6:45 AM, Darrell Shandrow wrote:

> Hello Sally,
> 
> As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
> judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application can
> be subjective. 
> 
> If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
> his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
> then, perhaps, some modification is in order.
> 
> Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their technology,
> so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
> probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.
> 
> On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
> consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
> JAWS.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Darrell
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sally Thomas
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader
> on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer
> with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used
> both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
> would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
> mail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From corbbo at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 21:49:03 2010
From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:49:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>

Hi Sally,

I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it  
anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have  
any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are  
accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's  
just easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and  
uses a magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac.  
It's built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built- 
in screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's  
easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen,  
then I'd say Windows.

Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
Corbb O'Connor
Senior, The George Washington University


On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:

Hi,

I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen  
reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a  
Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.   
Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you  
prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.

Sally Thomas
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for  
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com



From brileyp at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 23:04:40 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 17:04:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Juliet Pro 60 and Scanner for sale
Message-ID: <84FB5523-C952-49CC-8D15-8BE96FB6D37E@gmail.com>

Hi all,

No worries, I won't start clogging the list with for sale items. I just happen to have a few tech items on my hands I thought you all might find interesting.

I'm selling a Juliet Pro 60 and a Plustek Opticbook 3600 scanner. The braille embosser is still in the box it came in. I don't have the space I thought I would for it, so it needs to go. I have used the scanner, but it is still in great condition.

If you are interested in either of these items, please EMail me off list.

Best,
Briley

From chriswright11 at verizon.net  Thu Feb 25 23:06:39 2010
From: chriswright11 at verizon.net (Christopher Wright)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:06:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FAADEBA8E82D448B90EDD04329EE24C3@DHP4VFK1>

Hi Corbb,
As someone who is following Mac-related developments, as much as possible, 
I'd like to know what brings you to that conclusion.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Corbb O'Connor" <corbbo at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?


> Hi Sally,
>
> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it 
> anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have 
> any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are 
> accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's  just 
> easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and  uses a 
> magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac.  It's 
> built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built- in screen 
> reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's  easier for 
> him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen,  then I'd say 
> Windows.
>
> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
> Corbb O'Connor
> Senior, The George Washington University
>
>
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen 
> reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a  Windows 
> computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.   Have any 
> of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you  prefer?  Any 
> insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net 



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 23:10:54 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:10:54 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <366AA812-EE39-409C-91C3-103488DFD0E2@gmail.com>

For me voice  over reads more stuff then jaws ever  did and you have so many more tools built in, a dictionary right at your  finger tips, and more. and voice over is for me more responsive and when it crashes it just restarts with no fuss.

Take care.
On Feb 25, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Corbb O'Connor wrote:

> Hi Sally,
> 
> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's just easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and uses a magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac. It's built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built-in screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen, then I'd say Windows.
> 
> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
> Corbb O'Connor
> Senior, The George Washington University
> 
> 
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 23:22:21 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:22:21 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <FAADEBA8E82D448B90EDD04329EE24C3@DHP4VFK1>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
	<FAADEBA8E82D448B90EDD04329EE24C3@DHP4VFK1>
Message-ID: <732DBC00-315F-409A-B96D-D0C4EE7CC555@gmail.com>

Agreed. I use and love both operating systems but for me more programs are usable out of the box on the mac side of things and some software is more cheaper. lol.
On Feb 25, 2010, at 3:06 PM, Christopher Wright wrote:

> Hi Corbb,
> As someone who is following Mac-related developments, as much as possible, I'd like to know what brings you to that conclusion.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corbb O'Connor" <corbbo at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
> 
> 
>> Hi Sally,
>> 
>> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's  just easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and  uses a magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac.  It's built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built- in screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's  easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen,  then I'd say Windows.
>> 
>> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
>> Corbb O'Connor
>> Senior, The George Washington University
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a  Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.   Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you  prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Sally Thomas
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 23:24:16 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 15:24:16 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <074A7655-3EB6-4C82-BD3D-F2CB40E85F16@gmail.com>

	For me voice  over reads more stuff then jaws ever  did and you have so many more tools built in, a dictionary right at your  finger tips, and more. and voice over is for me more responsive and when it crashes it just restarts with no fuss.

Take care.
On Feb 25, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Corbb O'Connor wrote:

> Hi Sally,
> 
> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's just easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and uses a magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac. It's built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built-in screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen, then I'd say Windows.
> 
> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
> Corbb O'Connor
> Senior, The George Washington University
> 
> 
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From kimthurman at insightbb.com  Thu Feb 25 23:49:42 2010
From: kimthurman at insightbb.com (Kimberly thurman)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 18:49:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E38625BC-61F0-4C73-A1A1-6F731BE11E52@insightbb.com>

Hi:

I am a long-time Windows user with the screenreader, Jaws.  I recently got a Macbook Pro and am learning to use it quite well.  They are really like comparing apples and oranges.  At this point, I really can't say one is better than the other.  They are just different, that's all, just different.  hth
On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kimthurman%40insightbb.com



From taiablas at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:13:16 2010
From: taiablas at gmail.com (Tai Blas)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:13:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Room Share
Message-ID: <auto-000141511530@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I will be attending the NFB national convention in Dallas and am
looking to share a room. If you are female and would be willing to
share a room, please contact me at taiablas at gmail.com

Thanks.
Tai



From minesm at me.com  Fri Feb 26 02:33:55 2010
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 19:33:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <80D628DC-AD9B-47DD-A14B-A2820E584392@me.com>

hi I am a mac user and  i use a braille desplay. and seem to be fine.
On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Corbb O'Connor wrote:

> Hi Sally,
> 
> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's just easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and uses a magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac. It's built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built-in screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen, then I'd say Windows.
> 
> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
> Corbb O'Connor
> Senior, The George Washington University
> 
> 
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
> 
> 
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From seacknit at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 02:58:36 2010
From: seacknit at gmail.com (Sally Thomas)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:58:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
References: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <94E76D2314F64351A4C4A453A3E6FBCE@OwnerPC>

Well it just seems to be the way of the world.  One tool just won't do 
everything.  It's becoming apparent to me that the technology is evolving 
and needs are evolving too.

Thanks to you and Sarah for your information.

Sally Thomas
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <darrell.shandrow at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?


> Hello Sally,
>
> As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
> judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application 
> can
> be subjective.
>
> If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
> his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
> then, perhaps, some modification is in order.
>
> Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their 
> technology,
> so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
> probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.
>
> On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
> consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
> JAWS.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Sally Thomas
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader
> on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows 
> computer
> with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used
> both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/seacknit%40gmail.com 



From marrie12 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 04:26:10 2010
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:26:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <E38625BC-61F0-4C73-A1A1-6F731BE11E52@insightbb.com>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<E38625BC-61F0-4C73-A1A1-6F731BE11E52@insightbb.com>
Message-ID: <26B2EA73-F44B-4497-937C-91C7DE37CF6A@gmail.com>

Ah men! lol.  I am in both worlds and it will depend on my own circumstances of what I will use that day.

Blessings.
On Feb 25, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Kimberly thurman wrote:

> Hi:
> 
> I am a long-time Windows user with the screenreader, Jaws.  I recently got a Macbook Pro and am learning to use it quite well.  They are really like comparing apples and oranges.  At this point, I really can't say one is better than the other.  They are just different, that's all, just different.  hth
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Sally Thomas
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kimthurman%40insightbb.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Fri Feb 26 15:12:33 2010
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:12:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000018470787@mailback2.g2host.com>

Sally,

Please allow me to both agree with Darrell and maybe muddy the waters further.  It the school uses MACS, it may still be wise to see what software they are using on 
the MACS to determine if it is accessible.  For example, if a school makes heavy use of Microsoft Office on the MAC, a blind student might be better off with a 
Windows computer with Microsoft Office installed as Microsoft Word is, to my knowledge, not accessible on the MAC.  In other words, the hardware and the 
software must both be considered.  What is the school using for class web sites, and can web sites be used with one computer better than the other?  These are 
not questions that will necessarily give MAC or Windows the upper hand, but they need to be explored since he'll be in that school system for a few years to come.

I don't think any objective person would try to say that either MAC or Windows are flat out better because it is more complicated than that.  At this point, there are 
more accessible applications running on Windows, but one doesn't run "all accessible applications" only the ones they are interested in, so if what he needs to do 
on the MAC is accessible, then it may not matter.  Apple, on the other hand, has more control over the applications written for the MAC, so in some cases, 
accessibility is probably more stable.  I say all this only to illustrate the complexity.  

VoiceOver is included with the MAC as has been said.  However, when buying computers for my kids, I found that MACBooks were substantially more expensive 
than Windows laptops.  One can argue correctly that you might get more, but the fact remains that you will probably pay more.  A Windows laptop with a screen 
reader will likely cost you more, though, than a MACBook, in all fairness, but at least when I looked, the total costs made the fact that VoiceOver was included 
somewhat less significant.  This may have changed, though.  

These are not the kind of clear answers you are looking for, but please ask if you have more questions.

Best regards,

Steve

On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:45:41 -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:

>Hello Sally,

>As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
>judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application can
>be subjective. 
> 
>If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
>his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
>then, perhaps, some modification is in order.

>Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their technology,
>so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
>probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.

>On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
>consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
>JAWS.

>Hope this helps.

>Regards,

>Darrell

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Sally Thomas
>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?

>Hi,

>I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader
>on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer
>with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used
>both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
>would be greatly appreciated.

>Sally Thomas
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
>mail.com


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From jackson.dezman at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 15:23:32 2010
From: jackson.dezman at gmail.com (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:23:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
References: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6B4B2B547BA54329B257046F6A85374D@Dezman>

One great thing about the Mac is that you can have Windows on the machine as 
well thereby giving you the flexibility of both operating systems.

Dezman
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darrell Shandrow" <darrell.shandrow at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?


> Hello Sally,
>
> As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
> judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application 
> can
> be subjective.
>
> If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
> his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
> then, perhaps, some modification is in order.
>
> Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their 
> technology,
> so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
> probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.
>
> On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
> consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
> JAWS.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Darrell
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Sally Thomas
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader
> on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows 
> computer
> with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used
> both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Sally Thomas
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jackson.dezman%40gmail.com
> 



From kfjelsted at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:43:35 2010
From: kfjelsted at gmail.com (Kevin Fjelsted)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:43:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <FAADEBA8E82D448B90EDD04329EE24C3@DHP4VFK1>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
	<FAADEBA8E82D448B90EDD04329EE24C3@DHP4VFK1>
Message-ID: <b6d81871002261143m6894a1e6u60789ff486e63ee@mail.gmail.com>

There are a number of resources that will give a perspective on using
the mac. One web resource that I find helpful  is
http://www.lioncourt.com/.
I have a few entries on my blog at http://www.kfjelsted.com/ which
describe my personal experience.
It is also important to keep in mind that if one utilizes a Mac one
can run Windows within that Mac platform. THis is not true if one
picks a Windows platform I.E., there is a huge advantage by utilizing
a Mac platform over a WIndows platform from a flexibility perspective.

I think it is a very powerful statement when the former Vice President
of Software Engineering in charge of JAWS development for Freedom
Scientific is now using a Mac almost exclusively.
Another factor worth considering is that JAWS is languishing and
appears to be getting bugler and bugler as time goes on. Unless there
is a major effort to turn things around the JAWS screen reader will
run out of steam very soon.  THis is a separate issue so if JAWS is
being compared to be fair one should compare some of the other Windows
screen readers.
-Kevin
On 2/25/10, Christopher Wright <chriswright11 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hi Corbb,
> As someone who is following Mac-related developments, as much as possible,
> I'd like to know what brings you to that conclusion.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Corbb O'Connor" <corbbo at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>
>
>> Hi Sally,
>>
>> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it
>> anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have
>> any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are
>> accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's  just
>> easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and  uses a
>> magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac.  It's
>> built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built- in screen
>>
>> reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's  easier for
>> him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen,  then I'd say
>> Windows.
>>
>> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
>> Corbb O'Connor
>> Senior, The George Washington University
>>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen
>> reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a  Windows
>>
>> computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.   Have any
>> of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you  prefer?  Any
>> insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Sally Thomas
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kevin Fjelsted
B Harris, Inc.
http://www.bharrisinc.com
kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
Direct:  612.424.7332


From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org  Fri Feb 26 22:19:21 2010
From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:19:21 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] questions about e-college
Message-ID: <5D4F899913E44AC0B6CC2E1D05391B6B@PAULLAPTOP>

Hello Fellow students,
I'm wondering if anyone is using e-college for your online classes.  If so, what screen reader are you using and where did you get whatever scripts you needed to make it work.  Also, is anyone using my-scribe for your online textbooks?  Is there another preferred puff bookreader with the same features?
Thanks for any help given.  I'm investigating accessibility at Devry University.
Maryann Migliorelli

From kfjelsted at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 23:28:05 2010
From: kfjelsted at gmail.com (Kevin Fjelsted)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000018470787@mailback2.g2host.com>
References: <4b868d13.01145e0a.588f.171d@mx.google.com>
	<auto-000018470787@mailback2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <b6d81871002261528m1e36c254t136ad170a9ce91c6@mail.gmail.com>

I did a quick check using retail online pricing.
The JAWS professional software costs $1,095.00 at the Freedom
Scientific online store.
THen in order to keep current there is a yearly SMA cost of $260.00.
Since Apple has not released a NetBook we cannot compare Netbooks.
HOwever Apple will begin selling the IPad at the end of March for $499
which will be comparable and better than  a Netbook. The  IPad will
have the same accessibility using VoiceOver as the IPhone at no extra
cost.
 A non-Netbook WIndows laptop can be had for say $550 retail.
If one then adds screen reading software plus a productivity suite it
would seem  that we are at least $1800 for a system.

The Macbook laptop costs $999 retail.

With the Macbook one already  has built-in accessibility plus core
productivity functions including mail, text processing, address
management, and calendaring. One can add IWOrk for the Mac at $80 and
get Pages (word processor compatible with Microsoft WOrd) Numbers
(spreadsheet compatible with Excel) and Keynote (presentations
including powerpoint compatibility).

The Apple Mac Mini can be purchased for $599.00.  The Mini is a 2
pound very small system that is not battery powered. I use the Mini
because I can throw it in a backpack and it takes up about the quarter
of the room of a laptop.
 THe cool thing is that one doesn't need to attach a monitor if one
attaches a very short Apple provided converter cable to the Mini.

In the pricing discussions it is important to focus not only on the
hardware but the software as well.

On 2/26/10, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
> Sally,
>
> Please allow me to both agree with Darrell and maybe muddy the waters
> further.  It the school uses MACS, it may still be wise to see what software
> they are using on
> the MACS to determine if it is accessible.  For example, if a school makes
> heavy use of Microsoft Office on the MAC, a blind student might be better
> off with a
> Windows computer with Microsoft Office installed as Microsoft Word is, to my
> knowledge, not accessible on the MAC.  In other words, the hardware and the
> software must both be considered.  What is the school using for class web
> sites, and can web sites be used with one computer better than the other?
> These are
> not questions that will necessarily give MAC or Windows the upper hand, but
> they need to be explored since he'll be in that school system for a few
> years to come.
>
> I don't think any objective person would try to say that either MAC or
> Windows are flat out better because it is more complicated than that.  At
> this point, there are
> more accessible applications running on Windows, but one doesn't run "all
> accessible applications" only the ones they are interested in, so if what he
> needs to do
> on the MAC is accessible, then it may not matter.  Apple, on the other hand,
> has more control over the applications written for the MAC, so in some
> cases,
> accessibility is probably more stable.  I say all this only to illustrate
> the complexity.
>
> VoiceOver is included with the MAC as has been said.  However, when buying
> computers for my kids, I found that MACBooks were substantially more
> expensive
> than Windows laptops.  One can argue correctly that you might get more, but
> the fact remains that you will probably pay more.  A Windows laptop with a
> screen
> reader will likely cost you more, though, than a MACBook, in all fairness,
> but at least when I looked, the total costs made the fact that VoiceOver was
> included
> somewhat less significant.  This may have changed, though.
>
> These are not the kind of clear answers you are looking for, but please ask
> if you have more questions.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve
>
> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:45:41 -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
>
>>Hello Sally,
>
>>As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
>>judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application can
>>be subjective.
>>
>>If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
>>his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
>>then, perhaps, some modification is in order.
>
>>Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their technology,
>>so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
>>probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.
>
>>On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
>>consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
>>JAWS.
>
>>Hope this helps.
>
>>Regards,
>
>>Darrell
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>Of Sally Thomas
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>
>>Hi,
>
>>I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader
>>on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer
>>with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used
>>both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
>>would be greatly appreciated.
>
>>Sally Thomas
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
>>mail.com
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kevin Fjelsted
B Harris, Inc.
http://www.bharrisinc.com
kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
Direct:  612.424.7332


From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 00:59:14 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:59:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
Message-ID: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256@Rufus>

Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, but
I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, the
mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.  

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4899 (20100226) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From serenacucco at verizon.net  Sat Feb 27 01:54:33 2010
From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:54:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
References: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256@Rufus>
Message-ID: <001501cab74f$ced119f0$0201a8c0@Serene>

I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use 
Verizon, not gmail.

Serena


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail


> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, 
> but
> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, 
> the
> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net 



From ginisd at sbcglobal.net  Sat Feb 27 02:01:51 2010
From: ginisd at sbcglobal.net (V Nork)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:01:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: March Issue Now Available
Message-ID: <AA0460F4EE1A4982906821E6FFDBB2C7@windows4c0ed96>

March Issue Now Available
----- Original Message ----- 
From: AccessWorld 
To: AFB Subscriber 
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:04 PM
Subject: March Issue Now Available 


        
      AFB American Foundation
      for the Blind  TM   
                 
      
      Expanding possibilities for people with vision loss   

The March issue of AccessWorld is now available on our web site.

We apologize for the delay in getting these articles to you. We hope you'll find the information to be worth the wait. This issue features:




  a.. Editor's Page


  b.. A Look Back: Two Historical Interviews with Deane Blaize


  c.. An Evaluation of Kindle 2 and Sony Reader Digital Book Players, by Darren Burton-We report on the accessibility of two popular digital book players


  d.. Apex and Intel: A Commentary, by Deborah Kendrick-A perspective on two new products in the assistive technology market


  e.. What Can Policy Change Do for You?, by Paul Schroder-A look at pending legislation and what it could mean for you


  f.. The ScripTalk Experience, by Bradley Hodges-A look at how people are using ScripTalk to independently manage their prescription medications


  g.. Social Networking Is Becoming a Way of Life, by Marc Grossman-A discussion of popular social networking sites


  h.. Book Review: Assistive Technology for Students Who Are Blind or Visually Impaired: A Guide to Assessment


  i.. AccessWorld News


  j.. Letter to the Editor


Paul Schroeder
Acting Editor-in-Chief

AccessWorld® is the American Foundation for the Blind's technology magazine.

Be sure to sign up on the AccessWorld home page to receive AccessWorld Extra, the e-mail newsletter produced by AccessWorld staff six times per year. When you sign up for AccessWorld Extra, you are also added to the list of people who receive e-mail announcements when new issues of AccessWorld are posted.





"Remove" instructions
You are receiving this message because you are an AccessWorld reader. To be taken off the distribution list, please reply to this message with the word "remove" in the subject line, and we will remove you at once. (If you do not wish to read AccessWorld and you have received this e-mail in error, we sincerely apologize).

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Feb 27 07:21:35 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:21:35 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
References: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256@Rufus>
	<001501cab74f$ced119f0$0201a8c0@Serene>
Message-ID: <3AD6708333BB459F942259E640E906FE@stanford.edu>

Ditto. Sometimes, I also receive the reply before the original email. It's 
not just this list; it also happens on the other two NFB hosted lists to 
which I am subscribed.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail


>I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use 
>Verizon, not gmail.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, 
>> but
>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, 
>> the
>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>> sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature
>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 10:32:36 2010
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:32:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
In-Reply-To: <3AD6708333BB459F942259E640E906FE@stanford.edu>
References: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256@Rufus>
	<001501cab74f$ced119f0$0201a8c0@Serene>
	<3AD6708333BB459F942259E640E906FE@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <7949e5e21002270232r7f840107ucda0a18ea1ecc04c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all:

I, too, am receiving delayed mail.  Because of the variety of servers,
I'm thinking it has to be the NFB servers.
Courtney

On 2/27/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Ditto. Sometimes, I also receive the reply before the original email. It's
> not just this list; it also happens on the other two NFB hosted lists to
> which I am subscribed.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>>I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use
>>Verizon, not gmail.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>>
>>
>>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
>>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now,
>>> but
>>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail,
>>> the
>>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>>
>>> Joe Orozco
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>> sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature
>>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 15:22:27 2010
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania )
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:22:27 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
In-Reply-To: <3AD6708333BB459F942259E640E906FE@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4b890e8e.86c3f10a.428e.ffffbdd9@mx.google.com>

The same thing happends to me too.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Nicole B. Torcolini
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail

Ditto. Sometimes, I also receive the reply before the original email. It's 
not just this list; it also happens on the other two NFB hosted lists to 
which I am subscribed.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail


>I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use 
>Verizon, not gmail.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, 
>> but
>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, 
>> the
>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>> sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
>> signature
>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
n.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab
le.com 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai
l.com



From mewhalen at wisc.edu  Sat Feb 27 14:00:02 2010
From: mewhalen at wisc.edu (Meghan Whalen)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:00:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
References: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256@Rufus>
Message-ID: <7C2847B7D5E547A589E355278C5A96FB@YOURZVIRQM73LR>

I'm having the same problem.

Meghan
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:59 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail


> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, 
> but
> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, 
> the
> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40wisc.edu
> 



From spangler.robert at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 16:07:36 2010
From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:07:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
Message-ID: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu.

Thanks,
-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
Arts and Sciences


From rjaquiss at earthlink.net  Sat Feb 27 17:14:32 2010
From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:14:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
References: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5434D1A3166D4869AA5760396B59E81E@D3DTZP41>

Hello:

     I know of two blind hunters. I presume they own their own firearms and 
transport them. I would think the bigger issue would be could the individual 
use a weapon. Blind hunters have sighted people help them aim.

Regards,

Robert Jaquiss, President
Greater Ouachita Chapter
National Federation of the Blind
Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Spangler" <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns


> Hello all,
>
> Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
> guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
> with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
> Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu
>
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
> Arts and Sciences
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net 



From brileyp at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 17:58:41 2010
From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:58:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
In-Reply-To: <80D628DC-AD9B-47DD-A14B-A2820E584392@me.com>
References: <52CD820F340241D49E80247AA21C3C4E@OwnerPC>
	<2222F1E4-25AB-4F19-8A9E-27C84904AA87@gmail.com>
	<80D628DC-AD9B-47DD-A14B-A2820E584392@me.com>
Message-ID: <3EFF48F7-C5ED-4D0E-9066-5992189B1E20@gmail.com>

I'm also a Mac user, and I can say that it would've been awesome to have access to this technology in high school. Being able to use any of the computers my sighted peers were using would've have been more convenient on many fronts.

Good luck,
BrileyOn Feb 25, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Maurice Mines wrote:

> hi I am a mac user and  i use a braille desplay. and seem to be fine.
> On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Corbb O'Connor wrote:
> 
>> Hi Sally,
>> 
>> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's just easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and uses a magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac. It's built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built-in screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen, then I'd say Windows.
>> 
>> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
>> Corbb O'Connor
>> Senior, The George Washington University
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Sally Thomas
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com



From alberto.2500 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 19:20:16 2010
From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (Alberto Arreola)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:20:16 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
In-Reply-To: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b897071.9513f30a.14d3.676b@mx.google.com>

Yes I know of one person who has both a conceal weapons permit, and owns his
own guns.

His name is Carey McWilliams.
He has a book out, and he also has his own website where he puts up videos
of himself, and other things.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:08 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns

Hello all,

Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu.

Thanks,
-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
Arts and Sciences

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/alberto.2500%40gmail
.com



From alberto.2500 at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 19:39:18 2010
From: alberto.2500 at gmail.com (Alberto Arreola)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:39:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
In-Reply-To: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b8974e6.9413f30a.0502.6e39@mx.google.com>

You can email me off list if you are interested and I can provide you with
more information.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Spangler
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 9:08 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns

Hello all,

Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu.

Thanks,
-- 
Robert Spangler
The University of Toledo
Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
Arts and Sciences

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From minesm at me.com  Sat Feb 27 19:45:40 2010
From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 12:45:40 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
In-Reply-To: <7C2847B7D5E547A589E355278C5A96FB@YOURZVIRQM73LR>
References: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256@Rufus>
	<7C2847B7D5E547A589E355278C5A96FB@YOURZVIRQM73LR>
Message-ID: <4F30E190-34D4-46A8-9737-F37FCCCE5702@me.com>

hi same thing here as well. maurice ham call kd0iko.
On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:00 AM, Meghan Whalen wrote:

> I'm having the same problem.
> 
> Meghan
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:59 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> 
> 
>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, but
>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, the
>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>> 
>> Joe Orozco
>> 
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>> 
>> 
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>> 
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> 
>> http://www.eset.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40wisc.edu
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com



From blackbyrdfly at gmail.com  Sat Feb 27 21:33:53 2010
From: blackbyrdfly at gmail.com (Jamie Principato)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:33:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
In-Reply-To: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63af025c1002271333t11677778ifc1fa9c730a48f84@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, if anyone knows anything about this, could you e-mail me as well?
I'd really like to know.

Thanks,

-Jamie

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Robert Spangler <spangler.robert at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
> guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
> with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
> Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
> Arts and Sciences
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com
>

From info at michaelhingson.com  Sat Feb 27 22:45:34 2010
From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:45:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] KnfbReader Hints and Tricks discussion open to all
Message-ID: <auto-000141317032@mailfront2.g2host.com>

KnfbReader Hints and Tricks discussion open to all

Everyone is invited next Thursday, March 4,  to participate in a combined
on-line and telephone conference to discuss how we all use the KnfbReader
Mobile.  A number of persons have wanted a forum to learn from other users
"How do you do that?".  In response to these many requests we are arranging
for everyone to be able to call in via phone or Skype in on line to
participate.

This innovative program will take place next Thursday, March 4, beginning at
9PM Eastern time, 8PM Central, 7PM Mountain, 6PM Pacific and 4PM Hawaiian
time.  In order to attempt to make this program as available to all as
possible we are offering two ways to participate.  First you can Skype into
the program.  Skype is a communications program available free of charge
through the internet.  If you have Skype simply call my Skype name,
mhingson, and I will add you to the conference.  More instructions will be
published later about this if necessary.

If you wish to participate via phone Here are the dial-in instructions for
the call.  The call -- in number is (218) 339-3600.  The access code is
329906#.  Simply call in no later than times given above to be a part of
this call.  The program is free.  Only any relevant long distance charges
will apply.

Please bring your questions as well as your own reading techniques.  Please
be ready to share and learn from the many other KnfbReader Mobile users and
experts who will be participating in the call.  No question is too silly and
no idea is unwelcome.  If you do not own a KnfbReader Mobile here is a
chance for you to hear first hand from users how they read, learn, and
succeed using this marvelous invention.

I look forward to meeting you all next Thursday evening.  Thank you in
advance for participating in this first KnfbReader Mobile users forum.


Best,


Mike Hingson


The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
      "Speaking with Vision"
                  Michael Hingson, President
                          (415) 827-4084
                    info at michaelhingson.com
                    www.michaelhingson.com


for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com




From dandrews at visi.com  Sat Feb 27 22:59:51 2010
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:59:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] KnfbReader Hints and Tricks discussion open to all
Message-ID: <auto-000141317888@mailfront2.g2host.com>

KnfbReader Hints and Tricks discussion open to all

Everyone is invited next Thursday, March 4,  to participate in a combined
on-line and telephone conference to discuss how we all use the KnfbReader
Mobile.  A number of persons have wanted a forum to learn from other users
"How do you do that?".  In response to these many requests we are arranging
for everyone to be able to call in via phone or Skype in on line to
participate.

This innovative program will take place next Thursday, March 4, beginning at
9PM Eastern time, 8PM Central, 7PM Mountain, 6PM Pacific and 4PM Hawaiian
time.  In order to attempt to make this program as available to all as
possible we are offering two ways to participate.  First you can Skype into
the program.  Skype is a communications program available free of charge
through the internet.  If you have Skype simply call my Skype name,
mhingson, and I will add you to the conference.  More instructions will be
published later about this if necessary.

If you wish to participate via phone Here are the dial-in instructions for
the call.  The call -- in number is (218) 339-3600.  The access code is
329906#.  Simply call in no later than times given above to be a part of
this call.  The program is free.  Only any relevant long distance charges
will apply.

Please bring your questions as well as your own reading techniques.  Please
be ready to share and learn from the many other KnfbReader Mobile users and
experts who will be participating in the call.  No question is too silly and
no idea is unwelcome.  If you do not own a KnfbReader Mobile here is a
chance for you to hear first hand from users how they read, learn, and
succeed using this marvelous invention.

I look forward to meeting you all next Thursday evening.  Thank you in
advance for participating in this first KnfbReader Mobile users forum.


Best,


Mike Hingson


The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
      "Speaking with Vision"
                  Michael Hingson, President
                          (415) 827-4084
                    info at michaelhingson.com
                    www.michaelhingson.com


for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com




From iamantonio at cox.net  Sat Feb 27 22:19:57 2010
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 17:19:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder about conference call
Message-ID: <C18C4F94E2024DF99F3FA1991F752169@userf9b4fa60eb>

Hello all,

I am re-posting the message about the NABS conference call that will take place tomorrow.

Join the National Association of Blind Students and the membership committee in our latest conference call.

This time we have Melissa and Mark Riccobono to discussing parenting as a blind person, and couple.

Melissa is blind, and the president of the National Federation of the Blind of Md. She has been a leader in the Human Services Division.

Mark Riccobono is director of the NFB Jernigan Institute. His leadership and ideas help drive our movement.

Mark and Melissa are parents to Austin Riccobono, and they are expecting a second child.

Join the call on February 28 at 7:00 pm eastern, 6 central, 5 mountain, 4 pacific.

Dial 712-775-7100,
 access code 257963.

Whether you are a parent, or might become a blind parent in the future; if you are a care-taker; if you want to know the joys and trials or parenting, and the unique aspects of parenting as a blind person, help make this call a success by joining and participating. 

This call is for you, so make the best of it.

Antonio Guimaraes
Membership committee
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net

From jsorozco at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 01:59:42 2010
From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 20:59:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury
Message-ID: <B72399C1CC1E49C5BA351871D859B4DD@Rufus>

Hello,

Is Duxbury the only Braille translation software out there?  I'm considering
the purchase of an embosser and want to factor in the cost of the
appropriate software to make that purchase complete.  Thanks, and any
recommendations on good embosser models is appreciated.

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4901 (20100227) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From jty727 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 02:25:46 2010
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 21:25:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury
In-Reply-To: <B72399C1CC1E49C5BA351871D859B4DD@Rufus>
References: <B72399C1CC1E49C5BA351871D859B4DD@Rufus>
Message-ID: <54d8179e1002271825lc810c9aif5edfbd92ff39372@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if it's the only translation out there, but its the best
and most commonly used.  As for embossers, I personally have a Juliet
Justin

On 2/27/10, Joe Orozco <jsorozco at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Is Duxbury the only Braille translation software out there?  I'm considering
> the purchase of an embosser and want to factor in the cost of the
> appropriate software to make that purchase complete.  Thanks, and any
> recommendations on good embosser models is appreciated.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 4901 (20100227) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From davidb521 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 04:58:57 2010
From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 22:58:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury
In-Reply-To: <B72399C1CC1E49C5BA351871D859B4DD@Rufus>
Message-ID: <4b89f819.1408c00a.502e.3ade@mx.google.com>

Hi,
Duxbury is possibly the most comprehensive Braille translator that I know
of. The Index embossers made by a company in Sweden come with a piece of
software called WinBraille, but I don't like the translation tables. Some of
the contractions are a bit off, as well as some of the Braille symbols.
That's just my opinion, though.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:00 PM
To: 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury

Hello,

Is Duxbury the only Braille translation software out there?  I'm considering
the purchase of an embosser and want to factor in the cost of the
appropriate software to make that purchase complete.  Thanks, and any
recommendations on good embosser models is appreciated.

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4901 (20100227) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co
m



From jlastar at comcast.net  Sun Feb 28 07:20:51 2010
From: jlastar at comcast.net (Jennifer Applegate)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 01:20:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 40, Issue 28
References: <mailman.21.1267293605.25994.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <6F4D48FB333B4B40B1D8CB640E4BC6E3@YOURH99HMLEC97>

I had to purchase another laptop at the beginning of last semester, as the 
screen went out on my laptop that I use for college.  I ended up with 
purchasing a mini notebook by asues from best buy for $300, and it had a 
trial of microsoft office 2007 for 60 days on it.  I purchased a student 
version of the software from microsoft for $59 about the time it ran out. 
Initially I was hesitant about purchasing it, as it did not have jaws on it 
or a disk drive to load jaws.  However my brother is a techy person and used 
an external disk drive to load my jaws software onto the notebook.  So I 
spent a total of $360, and it has been great for college purposes, 
especially when someone sighted needs to look at the screen to help me.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 40, Issue 28


> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nabs-l-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>      (Kevin Fjelsted)
>   2. questions about e-college (Maryann Migliorelli)
>   3. Re: Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>      (Kevin Fjelsted)
>   4. Delayed Mail (Joe Orozco)
>   5. Re: Delayed Mail (Serena)
>   6. Fw: March Issue Now Available (V Nork)
>   7. Re: Delayed Mail (Nicole B. Torcolini)
>   8. Re: Delayed Mail (Courtney Stover)
>   9. Re: Delayed Mail (Rania )
>  10. Re: Delayed Mail (Meghan Whalen)
>  11. Blind People Owning Guns (Robert Spangler)
>  12. Re: Blind People Owning Guns (Robert Jaquiss)
>  13. Re: Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>      (Briley Pollard)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:43:35 -0600
> From: Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for
> school?
> Message-ID:
> <b6d81871002261143m6894a1e6u60789ff486e63ee at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> There are a number of resources that will give a perspective on using
> the mac. One web resource that I find helpful  is
> http://www.lioncourt.com/.
> I have a few entries on my blog at http://www.kfjelsted.com/ which
> describe my personal experience.
> It is also important to keep in mind that if one utilizes a Mac one
> can run Windows within that Mac platform. THis is not true if one
> picks a Windows platform I.E., there is a huge advantage by utilizing
> a Mac platform over a WIndows platform from a flexibility perspective.
>
> I think it is a very powerful statement when the former Vice President
> of Software Engineering in charge of JAWS development for Freedom
> Scientific is now using a Mac almost exclusively.
> Another factor worth considering is that JAWS is languishing and
> appears to be getting bugler and bugler as time goes on. Unless there
> is a major effort to turn things around the JAWS screen reader will
> run out of steam very soon.  THis is a separate issue so if JAWS is
> being compared to be fair one should compare some of the other Windows
> screen readers.
> -Kevin
> On 2/25/10, Christopher Wright <chriswright11 at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Hi Corbb,
>> As someone who is following Mac-related developments, as much as 
>> possible,
>> I'd like to know what brings you to that conclusion.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Corbb O'Connor" <corbbo at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2010 4:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for 
>> school?
>>
>>
>>> Hi Sally,
>>>
>>> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it
>>> anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have
>>> any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are
>>> accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's 
>>> just
>>> easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and  uses a
>>> magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac.  It's
>>> built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built- in 
>>> screen
>>>
>>> reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's  easier for
>>> him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen,  then I'd 
>>> say
>>> Windows.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
>>> Corbb O'Connor
>>> Senior, The George Washington University
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen
>>> reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a 
>>> Windows
>>>
>>> computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.   Have any
>>> of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you  prefer?  Any
>>> insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Sally Thomas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chriswright11%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Kevin Fjelsted
> B Harris, Inc.
> http://www.bharrisinc.com
> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
> Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
> Direct:  612.424.7332
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 15:19:21 -0700
> From: "Maryann Migliorelli" <mrsmigs at migliorelli.org>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, "Colorado Association of Blind Students List"
> <cabs at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] questions about e-college
> Message-ID: <5D4F899913E44AC0B6CC2E1D05391B6B at PAULLAPTOP>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello Fellow students,
> I'm wondering if anyone is using e-college for your online classes.  If 
> so, what screen reader are you using and where did you get whatever 
> scripts you needed to make it work.  Also, is anyone using my-scribe for 
> your online textbooks?  Is there another preferred puff bookreader with 
> the same features?
> Thanks for any help given.  I'm investigating accessibility at Devry 
> University.
> Maryann Migliorelli
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:28:05 -0600
> From: Kevin Fjelsted <kfjelsted at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for
> school?
> Message-ID:
> <b6d81871002261528m1e36c254t136ad170a9ce91c6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I did a quick check using retail online pricing.
> The JAWS professional software costs $1,095.00 at the Freedom
> Scientific online store.
> THen in order to keep current there is a yearly SMA cost of $260.00.
> Since Apple has not released a NetBook we cannot compare Netbooks.
> HOwever Apple will begin selling the IPad at the end of March for $499
> which will be comparable and better than  a Netbook. The  IPad will
> have the same accessibility using VoiceOver as the IPhone at no extra
> cost.
> A non-Netbook WIndows laptop can be had for say $550 retail.
> If one then adds screen reading software plus a productivity suite it
> would seem  that we are at least $1800 for a system.
>
> The Macbook laptop costs $999 retail.
>
> With the Macbook one already  has built-in accessibility plus core
> productivity functions including mail, text processing, address
> management, and calendaring. One can add IWOrk for the Mac at $80 and
> get Pages (word processor compatible with Microsoft WOrd) Numbers
> (spreadsheet compatible with Excel) and Keynote (presentations
> including powerpoint compatibility).
>
> The Apple Mac Mini can be purchased for $599.00.  The Mini is a 2
> pound very small system that is not battery powered. I use the Mini
> because I can throw it in a backpack and it takes up about the quarter
> of the room of a laptop.
> THe cool thing is that one doesn't need to attach a monitor if one
> attaches a very short Apple provided converter cable to the Mini.
>
> In the pricing discussions it is important to focus not only on the
> hardware but the software as well.
>
> On 2/26/10, Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com> wrote:
>> Sally,
>>
>> Please allow me to both agree with Darrell and maybe muddy the waters
>> further.  It the school uses MACS, it may still be wise to see what 
>> software
>> they are using on
>> the MACS to determine if it is accessible.  For example, if a school 
>> makes
>> heavy use of Microsoft Office on the MAC, a blind student might be better
>> off with a
>> Windows computer with Microsoft Office installed as Microsoft Word is, to 
>> my
>> knowledge, not accessible on the MAC.  In other words, the hardware and 
>> the
>> software must both be considered.  What is the school using for class web
>> sites, and can web sites be used with one computer better than the other?
>> These are
>> not questions that will necessarily give MAC or Windows the upper hand, 
>> but
>> they need to be explored since he'll be in that school system for a few
>> years to come.
>>
>> I don't think any objective person would try to say that either MAC or
>> Windows are flat out better because it is more complicated than that.  At
>> this point, there are
>> more accessible applications running on Windows, but one doesn't run "all
>> accessible applications" only the ones they are interested in, so if what 
>> he
>> needs to do
>> on the MAC is accessible, then it may not matter.  Apple, on the other 
>> hand,
>> has more control over the applications written for the MAC, so in some
>> cases,
>> accessibility is probably more stable.  I say all this only to illustrate
>> the complexity.
>>
>> VoiceOver is included with the MAC as has been said.  However, when 
>> buying
>> computers for my kids, I found that MACBooks were substantially more
>> expensive
>> than Windows laptops.  One can argue correctly that you might get more, 
>> but
>> the fact remains that you will probably pay more.  A Windows laptop with 
>> a
>> screen
>> reader will likely cost you more, though, than a MACBook, in all 
>> fairness,
>> but at least when I looked, the total costs made the fact that VoiceOver 
>> was
>> included
>> somewhat less significant.  This may have changed, though.
>>
>> These are not the kind of clear answers you are looking for, but please 
>> ask
>> if you have more questions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 07:45:41 -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote:
>>
>>>Hello Sally,
>>
>>>As with many things inside and outside the assistive technology arena, a
>>>judgment of which solution is the "best" for any particular application 
>>>can
>>>be subjective.
>>>
>>>If your son is able to complete his school work on terms of equality with
>>>his sighted peers, then the solution is best for his needs. If he is not,
>>>then, perhaps, some modification is in order.
>>
>>>Many schools continue to rely on Apple for all or most of their 
>>>technology,
>>>so your son's ability to use the same computer as other kids at school is
>>>probably a big help to him, his teachers and the school's support staff.
>>
>>>On the other hand, if the school relies on Windows, then he might want to
>>>consider switching to a screen reader like System Access, Window-Eyes or
>>>JAWS.
>>
>>>Hope this helps.
>>
>>>Regards,
>>
>>>Darrell
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>>Of Sally Thomas
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:34 PM
>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for school?
>>
>>>Hi,
>>
>>>I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen 
>>>reader
>>>on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a Windows 
>>>computer
>>>with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true.  Have any of you 
>>>used
>>>both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer?  Any insight you have
>>>would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>>Sally Thomas
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g
>>>mail.com
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Kevin Fjelsted
> B Harris, Inc.
> http://www.bharrisinc.com
> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted
> Phone:   612.424.7333 EX. 301
> Direct:  612.424.7332
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 19:59:14 -0500
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> Message-ID: <7B73E28DD4FE4B758127119FE3E0D256 at Rufus>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now, 
> but
> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail, 
> the
> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>
> Joe Orozco
>
> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 20:54:33 -0500
> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> Message-ID: <001501cab74f$ced119f0$0201a8c0 at Serene>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use
> Verizon, not gmail.
>
> Serena
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now,
>> but
>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail,
>> the
>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>> sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 18:01:51 -0800
> From: "V Nork" <ginisd at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <real-eyes at freelists.org>
> Cc: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: March Issue Now Available
> Message-ID: <AA0460F4EE1A4982906821E6FFDBB2C7 at windows4c0ed96>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> March Issue Now Available
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: AccessWorld
> To: AFB Subscriber
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:04 PM
> Subject: March Issue Now Available
>
>
>
>      AFB American Foundation
>      for the Blind  TM
>
>
>      Expanding possibilities for people with vision loss
>
> The March issue of AccessWorld is now available on our web site.
>
> We apologize for the delay in getting these articles to you. We hope 
> you'll find the information to be worth the wait. This issue features:
>
>
>
>
>  a.. Editor's Page
>
>
>  b.. A Look Back: Two Historical Interviews with Deane Blaize
>
>
>  c.. An Evaluation of Kindle 2 and Sony Reader Digital Book Players, by 
> Darren Burton-We report on the accessibility of two popular digital book 
> players
>
>
>  d.. Apex and Intel: A Commentary, by Deborah Kendrick-A perspective on 
> two new products in the assistive technology market
>
>
>  e.. What Can Policy Change Do for You?, by Paul Schroder-A look at 
> pending legislation and what it could mean for you
>
>
>  f.. The ScripTalk Experience, by Bradley Hodges-A look at how people are 
> using ScripTalk to independently manage their prescription medications
>
>
>  g.. Social Networking Is Becoming a Way of Life, by Marc Grossman-A 
> discussion of popular social networking sites
>
>
>  h.. Book Review: Assistive Technology for Students Who Are Blind or 
> Visually Impaired: A Guide to Assessment
>
>
>  i.. AccessWorld News
>
>
>  j.. Letter to the Editor
>
>
> Paul Schroeder
> Acting Editor-in-Chief
>
> AccessWorld? is the American Foundation for the Blind's technology 
> magazine.
>
> Be sure to sign up on the AccessWorld home page to receive AccessWorld 
> Extra, the e-mail newsletter produced by AccessWorld staff six times per 
> year. When you sign up for AccessWorld Extra, you are also added to the 
> list of people who receive e-mail announcements when new issues of 
> AccessWorld are posted.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Remove" instructions
> You are receiving this message because you are an AccessWorld reader. To 
> be taken off the distribution list, please reply to this message with the 
> word "remove" in the subject line, and we will remove you at once. (If you 
> do not wish to read AccessWorld and you have received this e-mail in 
> error, we sincerely apologize).
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 23:21:35 -0800
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> Message-ID: <3AD6708333BB459F942259E640E906FE at stanford.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> Ditto. Sometimes, I also receive the reply before the original email. It's
> not just this list; it also happens on the other two NFB hosted lists to
> which I am subscribed.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>>I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use
>>Verizon, not gmail.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>>
>>
>>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the 
>>> NFBNet
>>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now,
>>> but
>>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail,
>>> the
>>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>>
>>> Joe Orozco
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>> sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature
>>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 04:32:36 -0600
> From: Courtney Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> Message-ID:
> <7949e5e21002270232r7f840107ucda0a18ea1ecc04c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all:
>
> I, too, am receiving delayed mail.  Because of the variety of servers,
> I'm thinking it has to be the NFB servers.
> Courtney
>
> On 2/27/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Ditto. Sometimes, I also receive the reply before the original email. 
>> It's
>> not just this list; it also happens on the other two NFB hosted lists to
>> which I am subscribed.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>>
>>
>>>I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use
>>>Verizon, not gmail.
>>>
>>> Serena
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the 
>>>> NFBNet
>>>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now,
>>>> but
>>>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my 
>>>> Gmail,
>>>> the
>>>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>>>
>>>> Joe Orozco
>>>>
>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>>> sleeves,
>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>> signature
>>>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>>>
>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 07:22:27 -0800
> From: "Rania " <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> Message-ID: <4b890e8e.86c3f10a.428e.ffffbdd9 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The same thing happends to me too.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Nicole B. Torcolini
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
> Ditto. Sometimes, I also receive the reply before the original email. It's
> not just this list; it also happens on the other two NFB hosted lists to
> which I am subscribed.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Serena" <serenacucco at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>>I am, too.  I'm not the tech wizzard who knows what's causing it.  I use
>>Verizon, not gmail.
>>
>> Serena
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 7:59 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>>
>>
>>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the 
>>> NFBNet
>>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now,
>>> but
>>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail,
>>> the
>>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>>
>>> Joe Orozco
>>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>> sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>>
>>>
>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>> signature
>>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>>
>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>
>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizo
> n.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab
> le.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai
> l.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 08:00:02 -0600
> From: Meghan Whalen <mewhalen at wisc.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
> Message-ID: <7C2847B7D5E547A589E355278C5A96FB at YOURZVIRQM73LR>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed;
> reply-type=original
>
> I'm having the same problem.
>
> Meghan
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 6:59 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Delayed Mail
>
>
>> Is it just me, or are other people receiving delayed mail from the NFBNet
>> lists?  I've seen discussion on the Mac question for a couple days now,
>> but
>> I'm just now receiving Sally's original post.  I don't know if my Gmail,
>> the
>> mail server or my antivirus software is responsible.
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>> sleeves,
>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 4899 (20100226) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40wisc.edu
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:07:36 -0500
> From: Robert Spangler <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
> Message-ID:
> <19ccaa051002270807m7c1034fbqc7746c39bd536bcf at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello all,
>
> Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
> guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
> with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
> Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu.
>
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Robert Spangler
> The University of Toledo
> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
> Arts and Sciences
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:14:32 -0600
> From: "Robert Jaquiss" <rjaquiss at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
> Message-ID: <5434D1A3166D4869AA5760396B59E81E at D3DTZP41>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello:
>
>     I know of two blind hunters. I presume they own their own firearms and
> transport them. I would think the bigger issue would be could the 
> individual
> use a weapon. Blind hunters have sighted people help them aim.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robert Jaquiss, President
> Greater Ouachita Chapter
> National Federation of the Blind
> Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Robert Spangler" <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:07 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
>
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
>> guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
>> with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
>> Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -- 
>> Robert Spangler
>> The University of Toledo
>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
>> Arts and Sciences
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:58:41 -0600
> From: Briley Pollard <brileyp at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Does anyone use a MacBook or MacBook Pro for
> school?
> Message-ID: <3EFF48F7-C5ED-4D0E-9066-5992189B1E20 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'm also a Mac user, and I can say that it would've been awesome to have 
> access to this technology in high school. Being able to use any of the 
> computers my sighted peers were using would've have been more convenient 
> on many fronts.
>
> Good luck,
> BrileyOn Feb 25, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Maurice Mines wrote:
>
>> hi I am a mac user and  i use a braille desplay. and seem to be fine.
>> On Feb 25, 2010, at 2:49 PM, Corbb O'Connor wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Sally,
>>>
>>> I'll probably initiate a firestorm with this comment, but I'll say it 
>>> anyway. I'm a blind user of the Mac, and love it. But if I didn't have 
>>> any residual vision, I'd be a JAWS user. I find that more programs are 
>>> accessible with JAWS on the Windows operating system, and that it's just 
>>> easier to use. That said, if your son has remaining vision and uses a 
>>> magnification software to see the screen, then go for the Mac. It's 
>>> built-in, and very good. Combine that with VoiceOver, the built-in 
>>> screen reader on the Mac, and he'll be in good shape. But, if it's 
>>> easier for him to use the screen reader than squint to see the screen, 
>>> then I'd say Windows.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps -- and I'm happy to answer more questions!
>>> Corbb O'Connor
>>> Senior, The George Washington University
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 8:34 PM, Sally Thomas wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm the parent of a blind 13 year old.  He tells me that the screen 
>>> reader on the MacBook is great and that it is better than using a 
>>> Windows computer with JAWS.  I'm curious whether or not this is true. 
>>> Have any of you used both?  How do they compare?  Which do you prefer? 
>>> Any insight you have would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Sally Thomas
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/corbbo%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 40, Issue 28
> ************************************** 



From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca  Sun Feb 28 08:41:40 2010
From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (Sarah Jevnikar)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 03:41:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury
In-Reply-To: <4b89f819.1408c00a.502e.3ade@mx.google.com>
References: <B72399C1CC1E49C5BA351871D859B4DD@Rufus>
	<4b89f819.1408c00a.502e.3ade@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000101cab851$d9278cb0$8b76a610$@jevnikar@utoronto.ca>

Hi Joe and all,
I have an Index Basic-D which as mentioned comes with WinBraille. I also
have Duxbury, which generally seems more user-friendly. The advantage of
WinBraille is that you can emboss documents directly from Microsoft Word if
you want. I haven't used any of the aforementioned translation tables, so I
can't compare the two products in that sense.

The embosser itself is decent: you can print double-sided if you choose and
it's easy to configure. It has speech output which helps, in spite of the
fact that the embosser has a Swedish accent. I am told it can Braille
graphics but I haven't tried it myself. It doesn't come with a
sound-reducing case like some embossers do, and is loud. However it has
always served my purposes and any issues I've had have been with the
software rather than the embosser itself.
Apologies for the usual verbosity. I hope that helped some though.
Sarah

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:59 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Duxbury

Hi,
Duxbury is possibly the most comprehensive Braille translator that I know
of. The Index embossers made by a company in Sweden come with a piece of
software called WinBraille, but I don't like the translation tables. Some of
the contractions are a bit off, as well as some of the Braille symbols.
That's just my opinion, though.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:00 PM
To: 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] Duxbury

Hello,

Is Duxbury the only Braille translation software out there?  I'm considering
the purchase of an embosser and want to factor in the cost of the
appropriate software to make that purchase complete.  Thanks, and any
recommendations on good embosser models is appreciated.

Joe Orozco

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4901 (20100227) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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ronto.ca



From claudia.perry at verizon.net  Sun Feb 28 19:57:43 2010
From: claudia.perry at verizon.net (Claudia)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:57:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
In-Reply-To: <C18C4F94E2024DF99F3FA1991F752169@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <0KYK009GAI454925@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

Hello,

My name is Claudia Perry. I am a visually impaired student currently at
University of Phoenix. I live in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area, and
am very excited to be a member of this group. Perhaps I can learn new
techniques for school as a blind individual. I am also here to give any
ideas should you need it.

Regards, 

Claudia B. Perry

" There are no limitations except those we acknowledge. Anything the mind of
man can perceive he can achieve."

-- Napoleon Hill

-----Original Message-----




From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 28 21:28:38 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:28:38 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
References: <0KYK009GAI454925@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <4C5FF75C769144CC97359E1188A1EF53@stanford.edu>

Hi,

    Welcome to the list.  My name is Nicole; I am a sophomore at Stanford. 
If you don't mind me asking, do you read Braille or large print?  What 
technology do you use?

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Claudia" <claudia.perry at verizon.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:57 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!


> Hello,
>
> My name is Claudia Perry. I am a visually impaired student currently at
> University of Phoenix. I live in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area, 
> and
> am very excited to be a member of this group. Perhaps I can learn new
> techniques for school as a blind individual. I am also here to give any
> ideas should you need it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Claudia B. Perry
>
> " There are no limitations except those we acknowledge. Anything the mind 
> of
> man can perceive he can achieve."
>
> -- Napoleon Hill
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Sun Feb 28 21:37:08 2010
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:37:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns
Message-ID: <20100228213708.17595.4707@web3.serotek.com>

There is a blind man with a concealed weapons permit, but I can't 
remember his name off hand. he's either from California or Florida, but 
his name escapes me. He was all over the news for a while.

Respectfully Submitted


Original message:
> Hello:

>      I know of two blind hunters. I presume they own their own firearms and
> transport them. I would think the bigger issue would be could the individual
> use a weapon. Blind hunters have sighted people help them aim.

> Regards,

> Robert Jaquiss, President
> Greater Ouachita Chapter
> National Federation of the Blind
> Email: rjaquiss at earthlink.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Spangler" <spangler.robert at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 10:07 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Blind People Owning Guns


>> Hello all,

>> Does anyone know of any blind person who has experience with owning
>> guns, taken the concealed weapon carry test, or has any experience
>> with guns?  My sister needs to know for a school research project.
>> Please email rachael.spangler at rockets.utoledo.edu

>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Robert Spangler
>> The University of Toledo
>> Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of
>> Arts and Sciences

>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlink.net


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net

-- 
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit 
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 21:46:58 2010
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 16:46:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
In-Reply-To: <4C5FF75C769144CC97359E1188A1EF53@stanford.edu>
References: <0KYK009GAI454925@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
	<4C5FF75C769144CC97359E1188A1EF53@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <3fea3c411002281346h7b62ecabw34ebdcc7a8dd4291@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, I am a junior at UNC Wilmington. I just wanted to say that i
collect quotes, and i like the one in your signature.

Cindy

On 2/28/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>     Welcome to the list.  My name is Nicole; I am a sophomore at Stanford.
> If you don't mind me asking, do you read Braille or large print?  What
> technology do you use?
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claudia" <claudia.perry at verizon.net>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:57 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> My name is Claudia Perry. I am a visually impaired student currently at
>> University of Phoenix. I live in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area,
>> and
>> am very excited to be a member of this group. Perhaps I can learn new
>> techniques for school as a blind individual. I am also here to give any
>> ideas should you need it.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Claudia B. Perry
>>
>> " There are no limitations except those we acknowledge. Anything the mind
>> of
>> man can perceive he can achieve."
>>
>> -- Napoleon Hill
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Sun Feb 28 22:00:41 2010
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:00:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
References: <0KYK009GAI454925@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <43979C438C45412CA5040A9E8785E028@hometwxakonvzn>

Hi, I'm RJ Sandefur. I'm studying for my doctorate of theology.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Claudia" <claudia.perry at verizon.net>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 2:57 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!


> Hello,
>
> My name is Claudia Perry. I am a visually impaired student currently at
> University of Phoenix. I live in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area, 
> and
> am very excited to be a member of this group. Perhaps I can learn new
> techniques for school as a blind individual. I am also here to give any
> ideas should you need it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Claudia B. Perry
>
> " There are no limitations except those we acknowledge. Anything the mind 
> of
> man can perceive he can achieve."
>
> -- Napoleon Hill
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Feb 28 22:42:10 2010
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 14:42:10 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
References: <0KYK009GAI454925@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net><4C5FF75C769144CC97359E1188A1EF53@stanford.edu>
	<3fea3c411002281346h7b62ecabw34ebdcc7a8dd4291@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C8F5E8645824B5C8C31E03F41151C2D@stanford.edu>

You collect quotes? Do you just collect ones from famous people, or can they 
be from books as well?  I have a whole file of ones that I have written down 
from my reading. Would you like them?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!


> Hey, I am a junior at UNC Wilmington. I just wanted to say that i
> collect quotes, and i like the one in your signature.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 2/28/10, Nicole B. Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>     Welcome to the list.  My name is Nicole; I am a sophomore at 
>> Stanford.
>> If you don't mind me asking, do you read Braille or large print?  What
>> technology do you use?
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Claudia" <claudia.perry at verizon.net>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 11:57 AM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Greetings - New Member!
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> My name is Claudia Perry. I am a visually impaired student currently at
>>> University of Phoenix. I live in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan area,
>>> and
>>> am very excited to be a member of this group. Perhaps I can learn new
>>> techniques for school as a blind individual. I am also here to give any
>>> ideas should you need it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Claudia B. Perry
>>>
>>> " There are no limitations except those we acknowledge. Anything the 
>>> mind
>>> of
>>> man can perceive he can achieve."
>>>
>>> -- Napoleon Hill
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From iamantonio at cox.net  Sun Feb 28 23:03:48 2010
From: iamantonio at cox.net (Antonio M. Guimaraes)
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2010 18:03:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder about conference call
References: <C18C4F94E2024DF99F3FA1991F752169@userf9b4fa60eb>
Message-ID: <6D3E21B2924648F2BC6DF50FFAA9CB20@userf9b4fa60eb>

Conference call in about an hour

Antonio Guimaraes

If an infinite number of rednecks riding in an infinite number of pickup 
trucks fire an infinite number of shotgun rounds at an infinite number of 
highway signs, they will eventually produce all the world's great literary 
works in Braille.

Shop online and support the NFB of RI at no additional cost to you.
http://www.givebackamerica.com/charity.php?b=169
Givebackamerica.org, America's Online Charity Shopping Mall
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Antonio M. Guimaraes" <iamantonio at cox.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 5:19 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder about conference call


> Hello all,
>
> I am re-posting the message about the NABS conference call that will take 
> place tomorrow.
>
> Join the National Association of Blind Students and the membership 
> committee in our latest conference call.
>
> This time we have Melissa and Mark Riccobono to discussing parenting as a 
> blind person, and couple.
>
> Melissa is blind, and the president of the National Federation of the 
> Blind of Md. She has been a leader in the Human Services Division.
>
> Mark Riccobono is director of the NFB Jernigan Institute. His leadership 
> and ideas help drive our movement.
>
> Mark and Melissa are parents to Austin Riccobono, and they are expecting a 
> second child.
>
> Join the call on February 28 at 7:00 pm eastern, 6 central, 5 mountain, 4 
> pacific.
>
> Dial 712-775-7100,
> access code 257963.
>
> Whether you are a parent, or might become a blind parent in the future; if 
> you are a care-taker; if you want to know the joys and trials or 
> parenting, and the unique aspects of parenting as a blind person, help 
> make this call a success by joining and participating.
>
> This call is for you, so make the best of it.
>
> Antonio Guimaraes
> Membership committee
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/iamantonio%40cox.net