[nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
Briley Pollard
brileyp at gmail.com
Sat Mar 27 12:57:59 UTC 2010
Also, for the record, finding identity in being female is not necessarily linked to our ability to produce offspring...there is more to being a woman than giving birth.
On Mar 27, 2010, at 12:22 AM, Marc Workman wrote:
> Jedi,
>
> What specifically do you find circular?
>
> You can keep telling me that you don't see yourself differently, and I will
> say yet again that how you see yourself is not the issue. I don't think
> about my ability to sense pain. Does this mean that possessing or lacking
> the ability to sense pain makes no difference to a person's identity? It
> would seem to according to your argument. I don't think of my ability for
> self-consciousness unless society draws my attention to it, so therefore
> being self-conscious does not affect my identity outside of a social
> context. It seems to me that being self-conscious or not is likely to have
> an impact on a person's identity regardless of social context. Whether one
> sees one's ability for self-consciousness as important or not makes
> absolutely no difference.
>
> You said,
> What it really comes down to is that society tells us what different
> experiences mean.
>
> It's this claim that I disagree with. You seem to be saying that there is
> no experience, physical or otherwise, that isn't entirely socially mediated.
> I just don't think the body is that malleable. I don't think society can
> make up the meaning of experiences out of thin air as you seem to imply.
>
> You also said,
> What I think is really going on with these brain studies is that blind
> people are using parts of their brains to make inferences about what they're
> being told. It's a skill we pick up over time as a way of supplimenting what
> we already get. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the sighted could do the
> same thing and that more of their brains would light up if they used the
> skill more. there's a fine distinction there.
>
> It sounds to me like you are saying that blind people end up developing
> skills that allow them to think in different ways. That is all that I have
> been suggesting. Of course sighted people could do it if they found a way
> of developing the skill, perhaps walking around blind folded would do it.
> If this isn't what you had in mind, then I'm afraid the distinction was a
> bit too fine for me.
>
> I'm not sure if we'll come to agreement either, but I do want to better
> understand the social constructionist position that you seem to be
> espousing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Marc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
> Behalf Of Jedi
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:20 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
>
>
> Marc,
>
> This is a circular argument as far as I'm concerned, and i don't think
> we're going to ever agree completely on this issue. I don't know how
> many times I have to tell you that I don't see myself differently
> because I have the ability to give birth. If I do, it's because I
> learned from my society that I'm supposed to. But before that, I really
> didn't care. And to be honest, I care about it less than some other
> women do. Same goes for my blindness. Before I learned that i'm
> different from others, it didn't occur to me that I couldn't see. I
> just figured that I was what I was. What it really comes down to is
> that society tells us what different experiences mean, and we think of
> ourselves based on those meanings. For example, most White people don't
> really think about the fact that they're White because it's not
> something that's regularly drawn attention to. That may be less true
> now that discussions about racism have become more mainstream, but
> people take their Whiteness for granted because they are sort of like
> the invisible norm. Other ethnicities don't have that luxury, so they
> are more aware of their skin color because society has told them that
> they are different from White people in fundamental ways. If there was
> no meaning assigned to skin color, we might observe that someone is
> Black and someone is White, but that's about as far as it would go. But
> instead, this socially constructed meaning created that identity that
> having a different skin color other than White produces.
>
> I think your article is interesting because it almost repeats long-held
> notions about blind people that have been around in the field of
> special education for a long time: blind people's language development
> is delayed, especially since they can't see what's being talked about
> in order to link some object with it's symbolic counterpart, yet blind
> people develop an amazingness with words themselves because they have
> no other way to really get information. Some folks believe that even
> our amazing ability with words isn't enough since we still can't link
> these words with the things they represent. What I think is really
> going on with these brain studies is that blind people are using parts
> of their brains to make inferences about what they're being told. It's
> a skill we pick up over time as a way of supplimenting what we already
> get. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the sighted could do the same
> thing and that more of their brains would light up if they used the
> skill more. there's a fine distinction there.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
>
>
> Original message:
>> Jedi,
>
>> I hope that I did not try to tell you what you think about your ability to
>> give birth. I said that I wasn't sure it was possible to say that you
> don't
>> see yourself differently. I admit I should have clarified, but what I
> said
>> has absolutely nothing to do with you and what you think about yourself.
> I
>> was saying that it is literally impossible to make a claim like the one
> you
>> made. The reason it is impossible is because to know for sure if you do
> or
>> do not see yourself differently as a result of possessing the ability to
>> give birth, you would have had to have grown up as a man and as a woman,
>> which is not physically possible. So I suppose you can say that you don't
>> think about it, and you probably don't, but since you have nothing to
>> compare it to, it's impossible to say whether it does or does not shape
> how
>> you think about yourself. It would be like me saying, I don't think about
>> my ability to be self-aware. Therefore, it isn't a part of my identity,
> or,
>> I don't think much about my ability to feel pain, so I would be the same
>> person if I lacked this ability. I can say that I don't think about
> these
>> things, and it can be true that I don't think about these things, but I
>> can't say that they do not shape my identity, which is what I thought you
>> were trying to say.
>
>> The deeper claim I'm making is that identity is not something you can just
>> step outside of and say features X and Y are part of my identity, but
>> features A, B, and C are not. I want to say that there are things about
> you
>> that affect your identity that you are not at all aware of, and it is not
>> possible to step outside of your identity and take stock of the factors
> that
>> make you who you are. If you step outside of your identity, the you that
> is
>> doing the stepping disappears. So it's a philosophical claim that you can
>> never no for sure what exactly shapes your sense of self because knowing
>> this would require stepping outside yourself to have a look, but this is
> not
>> possible.
>
>> As for language processing, I'm going to paste an article abstract below
> my
>> name. It discusses the faster language processing that I mentioned.
>
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong: The difference in opinion here seems to be
>> that you think that identity is socially constructed. I'm only suggesting
>> that there is a close link between the body and identity and that
> possessing
>> a body that functions in a rather significantly different way (e.g., one
>> that is capable of visual perception versus one that is not) has a
>> non-trivial impact on one's sense of self. It doesn't strike me as a
>> particularly bold claim, no more than to say that I would probably be a
>> different person if I had a photographic memory, the ability to sense
>> infrared signals, or the sense of smell of a dog. And though I don't
> think
>> that how we perceive our bodies is beyond social influence, I'm not sure
>> that it is entirely socially constructed either.
>
>> Abstract follows.
>
>> Marc
>
>> Event -related potentials during auditory language processing in
>> congenitally blind and sighted people
>> Brigitte Roder
>> Abstract
>
>> While behavioral studies have documented delayed language acquisition in
>> blind children, other studies have revealed better speech discrimination
>> abilities for blind than sighted adults. Several brain imaging studies
> have
>> provided evidence for cortical reorganization due to visual deprivation
> but
>> the cerebral organization of language in blind humans is not known yet.
>
>> We hypothesized that the increasing specialization of language systems
>> normally observed during development may not take place to the same degree
>> in blind individuals since posterior visual areas do not receive their
>> adequate input. On the other hand, we hypothesized that blind people, due
> to
>> their greater reliance upon the auditory language signal, may process
> speech
>> faster than sighted people.
>
>> To test these assumptions, event-related potentials were recorded while 11
>> congenitally blind and 11 sighted adults matched in age, gender,
> handedness
>> and education were engaged in a language task. Participants listened to
>> sentences in order to decide after each sentence if it was meaningful or
>> not.
>
>> Incongruous sentence-final words elicited an N400 effect in both groups.
> The
>> N400 effect had a left-lateralized fronto-central scalp distribution in
> the
>> sighted but a symmetric and broad topography in the blind. Furthermore,
> the
>> N400 effect started earlier in the blind than in the sighted. Closed class
>> compared to open class sentence middle words elicited a more pronounced
> late
>> negativity in the blind than in the sighted.
>
>> These results suggest that blind people process auditory language stimuli
>> faster than sighted people and that some language functions may be
>> reorganized in the blind.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>> Behalf Of Jedi
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 1:14 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
>
>
>> Marc,
>
>> Seems how you're not a woman, and seems how you're not me, it isn't
>> your place to tell me what I think about myself in light of my ability
>> to give birth. I'm telling you that aside from the social consequences
>> of being the child bearing half of the spiecies, I don't think about it
>> much, and I suspect you would because you're not a woman. That is not
>> to say that some women don't think about it more than I do, but I
>> personally don't think about it much. I also suspect that sighted
>> people think the same way. They think about the differences of
>> blindness more than many of us do.
>
>> Next, blind people do not have inherently better memories nor better
>> language processing skills. On the whole, we're on par with the sighted
>> even if there are small brain differences. Just hanging out at an NFB
>> meeting or convention shows us how many differences there are between
>> us all: some have better memories than others, some are well spoken
>> while others aren't. The research I'm speaking of shows that blind
>> people handle voice recognition with the same parts of the brain that
>> the sighted handle face recognition and that we handle space-related
>> tasks with the same mechanism the sighted do except that we use
>> different inputs for the information. The occipital lobe of the brain
>> lights up when reading Braille the same way it does when reading print.
>> For some of us, the occipital lobe lights up when listening to text
>> because that's our primary form of reading. that may be linked to the
>> researched you're talking about.
>
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>
>> Original message:
>>> Jedi,
>
>>> I'm not sure it's possible to say that you don't see yourself differently
>>> because you have the ability to give birth. I'm only saying that I
>> suspect
>>> I would view my body differently if I had that ability. It's not
>> something
>>> I'll ever know. But here's another example if that one doesn't satisfy
>> you.
>>> If I were a woman, I would probably be 60 pounds lighter and six or seven
>>> inches shorter on average. Again, I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty
>> sure
>>> that living in the world, in any world, with a body that is 60 pounds
>>> lighter and 7 inches shorter would have a non-trivial impact on my sense
>> of
>>> self.
>
>>> And here's a blindness example. In my experience, blind people tend to
>> have
>>> better memories than the average sighted person. Unless you want to
> argue
>>> that this is only because of social factors, which I admit probably is a
>>> factor but not the only factor, then better memories will be around even
>>> after all social barriers are removed. I'm pretty sure again that having
>> a
>>> better memory that allows me to quickly recall information changes the
> way
>> I
>>> am able to think in a non-trivial way. If I suddenly lost my better
>> memory,
>>> even if I didn't need it to get around successfully in the world, it
> would
>>> have an impact on my sense of self. Would I be a completely different
>>> person? Probably not, but it would affect my identity more than if I went
>>> out and got a haircut tomorrow.
>
>>> Example 2: You say that evidence shows that the brains of blind people
>> more
>>> or less process information the same way the brains of sighted people do.
>>> I've seen evidence that suggests the contrary, particularly with respect
>> to
>>> language processing. There is evidence that some blind people end up
>> using
>>> the occipital lobe, the part of the brain normally reserved for visual
>>> processing, to conduct language processing. As a result, studies have
>> shown
>>> that certain sorts of language processing occur faster among blind
> people.
>>> This seems to me that it could also affect the way I think and my sense
> of
>>> self in a non-trivial way. And it doesn't seem to be entirely social.
>> Any
>>> social context that includes an oral language will have the same result.
>>> Though I admit that this can be more or less emphasized depending on
>> social
>>> factors.
>
>>> Finally, I wonder if some people think there is a danger in acknowledging
>>> that blindness can shape our identities even in the absence of harmful
>>> social attitudes. I can see the potential danger. If we say that we are
>>> different, then others can argue that we should thus be treated
>> differently.
>>> So I can understand why it might be better to deny it even if it's true.
>>> Alternatively, you could just not think it's true, but I think the
>> examples
>>> of better memories and increased language processing abilities, plus
>> others
>>> that I'm sure I could come up with if I spent some time researching,
>> suggest
>>> that blindness does generally affect the ways in which we are able to
>> think
>>> and thus our sense of self in what I keep saying are merely non-trivial
>>> ways.
>
>>> Regards,
>
>>> Marc
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>>> Behalf Of Jedi
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 11:57 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
>
>
>>> Marc,
>
>>> I'm a woman, and I don't see myself differently because I have the
>>> ability to give birth, but I do perceive the world based on the fact
>>> that sexism in all its forms is still alive and well int he world. As
>>> to blindness, I definitely think that we physically perceive the world
>>> slightly different than the sighted, but not enough to really warrant
>>> saying that blindness fundamentally shifts our world view.
>>> Neuroscientists are starting to show that the blind and sighted use the
>>> same rules for perceiving the world, we just use different inputs or
>>> modalities even though our brains more or less process the information
>>> the same way the brains of sighted people do. I think however, that
>>> being blind has produced a number of very interesting experiences that
>>> we all have in common including a world that is obsessed with
>>> perceiving the world visually. I use the word "obsessed" because it's
>>> clear that while vision is useful, it's almost like sighted people
>>> sometimes go overboard with touchscreens and a lot of flashy and
>>> unnecessary graphic material. Add the fact that the NfB as an
>>> organization with assumptions and values that shape our blindness lives
>>> and even our non-blindness lives, and you've got the making of a
>>> cultural identity.
>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Jedi
>
>
>>> Original message:
>>>> I think the issue of blindness constituting identity is definitely very
>>>> interesting, and I've been thinking about it a bit recently.
>
>>>> I believe that blindness does shape our sense of who we are, and this is
>>>> largely socially influenced, but it's also deeper than that. It's
> almost
>>>> certainly true that the challenges, discrimination, exclusion, etc that
>>>> blind people routinely experience influence our identity. However, and
>>> this
>>>> is where I part somewhat with so called NFB philosophy, I'm not sure
>> that,
>>>> in the absence of these factors, blindness would be reduced to a mere
>>>> characteristic, if mere characteristic is supposed to mean something
>>> rather
>>>> trivial and unimportant like hair and eye colour. I definitely think
>>> that,
>>>> in the absence of social and environmental barriers, blind people would
>> be
>>>> able to flourish as well as anyone else; I don't question that claim,
> but
>>> I
>>>> think perceiving the world in a unique way, in the way blind people do
>>> with
>>>> little or no sight, is a significant factor in how a person's identity
> is
>>>> constituted.
>
>>>> Arielle called sex a mere characteristic. As with blindness, if calling
>>> it
>>>> a mere characteristic is supposed to mean that it is as trivial as being
>> 5
>>>> foot 6 instead of 5 foot 5, then I don't think it is a mere
>>> characteristic.
>>>> I don't have evidence of this, but I think I would feel differently
> about
>>> my
>>>> body if I had the ability to grow a human being inside of it. My hunch
>> is
>>>> that the ability, or lack of ability, to give birth probably affects how
>>> one
>>>> views one's body and thus one's sense of self in a non-trivial way.
>>>> Similarly, relying heavily on auditory input, developing better
> memories,
>>>> perceiving the world with little to no reliance on sight, I think these
>>> all
>>>> affect a person's sense of identity in non-trivial ways, and they don't
>>>> depend on social factors.
>
>>>> Clarification, I'm not trying to suggest that women are defined by their
>>>> ability to give birth. I'm only saying that to possess that ability
>> might
>>>> shape how you think about yourself in a way that is more significant
> than
>>>> whether you have short or long hair.
>
>>>> Best,
>
>>>> Marc
>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>>>> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:08 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] being scholastically social?
>
>
>>>> Hi again,
>
>>>> Re-reading the posts thus far, I will add that I agree with Jedi.
>>>> Blindness itself doesn't constitute the social identity. The identity
>>>> comes from the social reaction we experience as a result of blindness,
>>>> and the ways we've developed to respond to that social reaction. I
>>>> would venture to guess that this is similar to the effects of skin
>>>> color or biological sex on the development of racial and gender
>>>> identities. Race and sex are mere characteristics to the extent that
>>>> they by themselves don't influence how people function, just as
>>>> blindness by itself doesn't significantly alter or take away from how
>>>> we function. It's the social expectations associated with race, sex,
>>>> and disability that shape how those identities form and how they
>>>> influence people's sense of self.
>
>>>> Arielle
>
>
>>>> On 3/25/10, Arielle Silverman <nabs.president at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>
>>>>> A few comments from an amateur social psychologist:
>
>>>>> There is research showing that members of minority groups (i.e. ethnic
>>>>> minorities) sometimes experience the same kinds of awkward
>>>>> interactions with majority group members that we have discussed as
>>>>> happening to blind people. Specifically, majority group members (i.e.
>>>>> white Americans) sometimes feel awkward when interacting with minority
>>>>> members, especially out of concern that they might accidentally come
>>>>> across as being prejudiced or racist. The result is that the
>>>>> interaction tends to be strained and there is more tension than there
>>>>> should be, and minority group members can get left out as a result of
>>>>> the awkwardness. Of course this doesn't happen to all minority members
>>>>> and certainly many majority members have no problem interacting across
>>>>> race or ethnicity lines, just as plenty of sighted people have no
>>>>> problem befriending, working with or dating blind people. But it is a
>>>>> general tendency.
>
>>>>> I think the question of whether blindness is an identity or a
>>>>> situation/characteristic is interesting. My hunch is that it depends
>>>>> on who you ask; in other words, blind people can range from being
>>>>> completely disidentified (and often not voluntarily associating with
>>>>> other blind people) to completely identified and highly affiliated (to
>>>>> the point of having no close sighted friends). For low-identifiers,
>>>>> blindness probably feels more like a single characteristic; for high
>>>>> identifiers, blindness may feel like a trait coupled with a social
>>>>> group label. In the NFB, when we talk about "the blind" or "the
>>>>> nation's blind", we are implicitly acknowledging that the blind have a
>>>>> common identity, even if we don't all believe that this common
>>>>> identity or fate is rooted in culture.
>
>>>>> As part of my Ph.D. training I do intend to do some research
>>>>> investigating whether blindness is a coherent identity and, if it is,
>>>>> whether it has similar effects on people's self-concept and behavior
>>>>> as other identities (i.e. ethnic, religious, etc.) For example, I
>>>>> suspect that the constant messages we get from the public about our
>>>>> inferiority and the devastation of blindness pose unique psychological
>>>>> issues that we contend with, and that it can be difficult to see
>>>>> ourselves as whole, capable beings when our identities as blind people
>>>>> are construed in the public eye as compromised or broken.
>
>>>>> One final thought: I've found it interesting that many sighted people
>>>>> seem to think of blindness as a condition or trait but don't think of
>>>>> "the blind" as a coherent group with the same rights as racial,
>>>>> ethnic, and other cultural groups. This was apparent in the debate
>>>>> over the movie Blindness. I heard several people (some sighted, some
>>>>> blind) argue that the movie was OK because the people portrayed in it
>>>>> weren't "real blind people"; rather, they were sighted people who went
>>>>> blind as part of the plot. Of course, any of us who were sighted at
>>>>> one time know that people who go blind are still blind people;
>>>>> nevertheless, there appeared to be that distinction in some people's
>>>>> minds. I think this is also why it's hard for us to make civil rights
>>>>> arguments against blatant injustices (i.e. "Treating blacks with this
>>>>> kind of discrimination is unacceptable, and so treating us this way is
>>>>> also unacceptable"). A lot of people just don't get it, or think that
>>>>> treating blind people differently is OK because stereotypes about
>>>>> blindness are somehow more valid than stereotypes about other minority
>>>>> groups. I'm not sure how to bridge that thought gap or how to
>>>>> demonstrate the existence of the common blind identity in situations
>>>>> where we are all affected by the same discriminations or denials of
>>>>> rights.
>
>>>>> Arielle
>
>>>>> On 3/25/10, Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> True. Maybe the reason I'm anti social is I have no social skills to
>>>>>> begin
>>>>>> it I wirhwe talk to much or don't' talk at all and sometimes I come
>>>>>> across
>>>>>> as rude but I'm so used to beeing int he teaching invironment that I
>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>> for me get out of it. I'm not making much sense as I am starting to
> get
>>> a
>>>>>> bit hungry.. Hehaha. I do know this much I have a harder time
>>> socialising
>>>>>> with the sighree then with the bind. theer is so much that can be
>>>>>> comunicated in silence. so much we can't see.
>
>>>>>> I really enjoy reading these discussions and view points as it makes
> me
>>>>>> think about what I need to work on or not bather working on.
>
>>>>>> Take care all.
>>>>>> On Mar 24, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Interesting. If we're talking straight up blindness, I think we've
>> all
>>>>>>> experienced a moment or two of feeling out of place in light of the
>>>>>>> dominant
>>>>>>> sighted crowd. I certainly experience with each meeting I attend
>> until
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> shake off the feeling and plunge forward. If we're talking ethnic
>>>>>>> minority,
>>>>>>> I can't say I've experienced that before, but I don't know if it's
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> the feeling is overshadowed by the blindness factor or because I've
>>>>>>> genuinely never witnessed this behavior.
>
>>>>>>> Regardless, what I find interesting about this discussion is that it
>>>>>>> makes
>>>>>>> blindness an identity factor. I think the original post asked how we
>>> as
>>>>>>> blind individuals handled campus involvement, when our philosophy
>>> claims
>>>>>>> blindness can be reduced to the level of a nuisance. I know this
>>>>>>> position
>>>>>>> does not claim blindness can be eliminated, but it would appear to
>>>>>>> suggest
>>>>>>> blindness is irrelevant to one's sense of self. So, rather than ask,
>>>>>>> "how
>>>>>>> do you, as a blind person, handle X, Y and Z," shouldn't we be asking
>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> handle the task in general?
>
>>>>>>> Interesting discussion.
>
>>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their
>>>>>>> sleeves,
>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:51 PM
>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] being scholastically social?
>
>>>>>>> Joe,
>
>>>>>>> The issue of inaccessibility to informal networks is actually
> becoming
>>>>>>> a key issue for those who study organizational communication and
>>>>>>> diversity. Basically, inaccessibility to informal networks is a fancy
>>>>>>> way of saying that one is left out or somehow treated differently
>> based
>>>>>>> on their minority group status. Either as a blind person or a member
>> of
>>>>>>> a minority group, have you ever had that gut feeling that you just
>>>>>>> didn't belong or that your social interactions were influenced by
> your
>>>>>>> minority status? Perhaps you were the only member of a minority or
> one
>>>>>>> of few? Maybe it wasn't something that anyone said directly, or maybe
>>>>>>> it was. But either way, that gut feeling was still there.
>>>>>>> Organizational scholars would say that this kind of thing is
>> controlled
>>>>>>> by context for sure. If your workplace and general environment are
>>>>>>> rather diverse and handle diversity well, you're probably less likely
>>>>>>> to have this experience. If not, than you probably will at some point
>>>>>>> and to some degree or other. But basically, the bottom line is that
>> for
>>>>>>> people who experience this problem, they tend to be the only one or
>> one
>>>>>>> of few representing their minority in an organization that hasn't yet
>>>>>>> become aware of its assumptions and ideologies favoring the dominant
>>>>>>> population. If you ask me, blindness will definitely cause one to
>>>>>>> experience this interesting problem at some point.
>
>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>> Jedi
>
>
>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>> Jedi,
>
>>>>>>>> I'm part of a minority group and have never experienced or
>>>>>>> witnessed this
>>>>>>>> behavior. What are you basing these conclusions on? Or,
>>>>>>> could you give
>>>>>>>> examples? If blind people are going to use this as a justification
>> to
>>>>>>>> explain their social isolation, I'd like the comparison to be
>>>>>>> accurate.
>
>>>>>>>> Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
>>>>>>> their sleeves,
>>>>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:59 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] being scholastically social?
>
>>>>>>>> It's not just a blindness thing precisely. It's not uncommon for
>>>>>>>> minority groups to have difficulty making friends on the job or in
>>>>>>>> school: things are cordial at work, but there's often lack of
>>>>>>> access to
>>>>>>>> informal social networks which can, in some cases, become a real
>>>>>>>> obstacle even during work hours. Causes might include anything from
>>>>>>>> just not knowing what to say to a minority group member to feeling a
>>>>>>>> large gap between minorities and their non-minority
>>>>>>> counterparts. There
>>>>>>>> really is no right way to handle this problem because it
>>>>>>> affects us all
>>>>>>>> so differently. If it concerns you that you're feeling left
>>>>>>> out, it may
>>>>>>>> be worth addressing to someone who you feel will most likely hear
>> you.
>
>>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>>> Jedi
>
>
>>>>>>>> Original message:
>>>>>>>>> I am currently in high school. I don't do much in terms of
>>>>>>>> clubs or other
>>>>>>>>> school activities in school. I briefly joined the stage crew
>>>>>>>> for a play, but
>>>>>>>>> I was kind of in the way. No one talked to me, about anything
>>>>>>>> other than
>>>>>>>>> professional questions about things of a technical nature. I
>>>>>>>> did my job
>>>>>>>>> well, but I clearly did not fit in. people were afraid that
>>>>>>>> if they talked
>>>>>>>>> to me they would offend me or something like that.
>
>>>>>>>>> Because I don't do many activities in school, I am involved
>>>>>>> in the boy
>>>>>>>>> scouts, life teen, and the NFB. Even at places such as boy
>>>>>>>> scouts and life
>>>>>>>>> teen, most of the conversations I have are professional or
>>>>>>>> technical in
>>>>>>>>> nature. I really don't have many sighted friends. I don't
>>>>>>>> know if this is
>>>>>>>>> blindness related, or what.
>
>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jamie Principato" <blackbyrdfly at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:11 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] being scholastically social?
>
>
>>>>>>>>>> In middle school, I would jump at the opportunity to get
>>>>>>>> involved in as
>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>> as my parents would allow. I did Student Government, Jazz
>>>>>>> Band, and a
>>>>>>>>>> Youth
>>>>>>>>>> Leadership organization that focused on competitive debate
>>>>>>> and public
>>>>>>>>>> speaking (think like a junior Toastmasters International). I
>>>>>>>> couldn't wait
>>>>>>>>>> for high school when I'd have even more interesting groups
>>>>>>>> and activities
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> choose from.
>
>>>>>>>>>> When I got to high school, I encountered a lot
>>>>>>>> of...problems...with the
>>>>>>>>>> school's Vision department (which is sad since I only went
>>>>>>>> to this high
>>>>>>>>>> school because we were told it offered the most for
>>>>>>> visually impaired
>>>>>>>>>> students). I could go on all day with the details here, but
>>>>>>>> I'll spare you
>>>>>>>>>> that. One of these issues was the fact that blind students
>>>>>>>> at this school
>>>>>>>>>> tended to be very...disconnected from the rest of the student
> body,
>>>>>>>>>> avoiding
>>>>>>>>>> activities and student events. I learned shortly after
>>>>>>>> joining Model UN
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> Psychology Club, attending the first Freshman dance, and
>>>>>>>> planning to go to
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> pep rally that the Vision department wasn't happy with the
>>>>>>>> fact t I joined
>>>>>>>>>> and attended these clubs without telling them first, and
>>>>>>>> that if I was
>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>> to keep attending, they'd need my mother to write up a
>>>>>>>> permission note (no
>>>>>>>>>> other student needed to do this) and they would have to first find
>> a
>>>>>>>>>> teacher
>>>>>>>>>> to stay late in the day and basically babysit me while I
>>>>>>> attend these
>>>>>>>>>> activities. Oh, and I wasn't allowed to go to that pep rally
>>>>>>>> unless I sat
>>>>>>>>>> with my TVI and the other teachers, not in the Freshman
>>>>>>>> stands with my
>>>>>>>>>> class. My mother and I told them that all of this was
>>>>>>>> unnecessary, and we
>>>>>>>>>> complained to the principal, but between this and a number of
> other
>>>>>>>>>> issues,
>>>>>>>>>> we just ended up taking matters into our own hands.
>
>>>>>>>>>> We registered as a home schooling family, and joined a home
>>>>>>>> school support
>>>>>>>>>> group with about 70 or so other families in the county. I
>>>>>>>> took advantage
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> my new freedom and got involved in a ton of extracurricular
>>>>>>>> activities in
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> community, even sports (something that never would have
>>>>>>> flown at that
>>>>>>>>>> school). Now that I'm in college, I try to get involved on
>>>>>>>> campus and in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> city when ever I can. I joined the university's fencing
>>>>>>>> club, a volunteer
>>>>>>>>>> organization, and I'm currently applying to Psi Chi. I also
>>>>>>>> try to get the
>>>>>>>>>> most out of campus cultural events like plays or concerts,
>>>>>>>> and make use of
>>>>>>>>>> campus facilities like the gym. THe only issue I've been
>>>>>>>> having is that
>>>>>>>>>> transportation in my city. The only bus that comes near by
>>>>>>>> house recently
>>>>>>>>>> changed its schedule and now stops running early in the
>>>>>>>> evening. The only
>>>>>>>>>> way to really go out in the evening for any sort of event or
>>>>>>>> get home from
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> club meeting is to take a cab or ride with a friend, but you
>>>>>>>> need to get
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> a bit first to make those sighted friends. I find that if
>>>>>>>> money is tight
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> month, it's pretty unlikely that I'll be doing much outside
>>>>>>>> of attending
>>>>>>>>>> class, including attending free activities or events. I
>>>>>>>> guess that's just
>>>>>>>>>> one price of living off campus though.
>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Darian Smith
>>>>>>>> <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi list,
>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm curious to here what people's thoughts are about becoming
>>>>>>>>>>> involved in clubs and campus activities in school (high school
>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> college). do you jump at the oppertunity to meet new
>>>>>>> people? do you
>>>>>>>>>>> feel nervous about it. have you met some of your best friends at
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> ralley, social club, campus society? how did your self-
>>>>>>>> identity as
>>>>>>>>>>> a blind person factor into your interactions with people? how
> did
>>>>>>>>>>> people interact with you?
>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>> Darian
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Darian Smith
>>>>>>>>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>>>>>>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>>>>>>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a
>>>>>>>> nationwide teacher
>>>>>>>>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>>>>>>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need
>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> help! To Get Involved go to:
>>>>>>>>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyr
>>>>>>>> dfly%40gmail.com
>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>>>> Email:
>>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>>> Website:
>>>>> www.nabslink.org
>
>
>
>>>> --
>>>> Arielle Silverman
>>>> President, National Association of Blind Students
>>>> Phone: 602-502-2255
>>>> Email:
>>>> nabs.president at gmail.com
>>>> Website:
>>>> www.nabslink.org
>
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