[nabs-l] Blindness and Identity

[Marc Workman]

This will be the fourth time that I've clarified what I said, but what I
said keeps getting distorted, so I'll try one more time.

Jedi said,
two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I can give
birth.

I've read every message on this subject, and I didn't read one man, let
alone two, say anything like that.

How on earth could anyone know how you perceive yourself? I certainly don't,
and I have never said that I did.  For the record, I have no idea how Jedi
perceives herself.  I only know that she says that she doesn't give much
thought to her ability to give birth, and I don't question that at all.  But
that is just not the issue that is being discussed.  How you perceive
yourself has nothing to do with this.  Identity is much more than just how
you perceive yourself.  Your ability to perceive, how you perceive, what you
perceive, these are all already influenced by your identity.  So whether or
not you think about a particular feature of yourself does not alone
determine whether it is or is not a part of your identity.

I truly regret bringing up the ability to give birth.  There is way too much
bagage that comes with a discussion of that topic, and I clearly offended
some people, which I had no intention of doing.  The fact that I'm a man
makes my bringing it up all the more problematic for some.  I tried to
choose my words carefully, including the clarification that I was in no way
suggesting that women are defined by this ability, but even this wasn't
enough to avoid the bagage, which is fine, I get that.  It was a bad
example, but the disappointing thing is that so much energy has been focused
on this one example that it has over-shadowed what could have been a deeper
discussion of blindness and identity.  That is unfortunate and makes me
really wish I had never mentioned it.

No hard feelings I hope.

Marc



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
Behalf Of Jedi
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:46 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity


Briley,

I'm glad you said something because it took me a while to understand
why I replied so snarkily last time. I realized that I felt incensed
that two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I
can give birth. To me, it was as bad as if some sighted person got on
list and told us all that our lack of eyesight shapes how we see
ourselves. Some would say yes, and others would say no. For those who
would say no, I think we'd feel pretty frustrated because it would be
almost like that sighted person was telling us that because they saw us
differently because we're blind, so should we regardless if we do or
not. What frustrated me most is that I twice said that, in my
experience of not being a mother, I didn't think much about my ability
to have children and yet I felt argued with as though someone who saw
themselves as having more authority on the topic, a man, had the final
authority on how I felt about myself as a woman. It was so frustrating.
And you're quite right that men probably don't think about their
ability to be part of the procreation process any more or less than we
do. Same goes for sighted people. I've heard sighted people say that
they don't realize how much they take for granted, and that's quite
true. They mean to say that they feel sorry for us, but the fact is
that they really have no idea how much privilege they have in society
just as many in a given "superior" (in quotes) class don't. Thanks
again for your comments.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Jedi,

> I thought you handled the issue of giving birth quite capably. I am not
> a mother yet, so no, I don't think about my ability to pop out kids as
> a big part of who I am... or really ponder it as a part of identity at
> all. Do you men see your ability to participate in making children as a
> part of your identity? Probably not. So, it is semi chauvinist of you
> to assume we are attached to our uterus as a part of us that gives us
> self worth.

> Briley



> On Mar 27, 2010, at 3:55 AM, Jedi wrote:

>> Well, if we want to get down to brass tacks, we can all say that we
>> will never know just how our being is affects our perceptions, but the
>> bottom line still lies at the fact that our perception of our beingness
>> is largely determine by what our culture teaches us about it, and
>> identity is the presentation of how we respond to those teachings in
>> our interactions with ourselves and others.

>> I think it's interesting that two men have been interested in whether
>> or not I see myself differently because I can give birth yet no women
>> have weighed in on the subject. I also think they're more interesting
>> in my birthing abilities than I am. Well gentlemen, you're welcome to
>> those abilities so long as you're willing to take the identity that
>> comes with them. *tongue in cheek*

>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi



>> Original message:
>>> The point is that without ever having had the experience of being a man,
you
>>> cannot say for sure that your being a woman does or does not have an
impact
>>> on how you see yourself or experience the world. I suspect it does, but
>>> without any basis for comparison, you can't say. Just as my being blind
from
>>> birth prohibits me from determining whether or not or to what degree my
>>> blindness affects how I view myself and experience the world. My gut
feeling
>>> is that my blindness has a fairly profound affect on at least a
significant
>>> subset of the things I experience and the way in which I experience
them.

>>> Blindness is absolutely part of my identity, as is my height, skin color
and
>>> love of the Chicago Cubs. Your identity is just an exhaustive list of
all of
>>> the characteristics and attributes which make a particular person the
>>> particular person that they are.

>>> To what degree I identify myself as blind or identify with the greater
>>> community of blind people is a completely separate question from that of
>>> whether or not blindness is part of my identity.

>>> I don't think blindness, strictly defined, is a social construct, while
I
>>> think the concept of disability is. I'm sure that to articulate my
reasons
>>> for feeling this way would require more time than I am willing to put
into
>>> it now, but that is my gut feeling.

>>> Thought I'd throw my two cents into this interesting discussion.

>>> All the best,

>>> Sean


>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo
bile.net

>> --
>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.

>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com


> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo
bile.net

--
Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mworkman.lists%40gma
il.com