[nabs-l] Blindness and Identity

Sun Mar 28 03:09:42 UTC 2010

I don't think anyone said that anyone should spend less time with other blind people. I think the point was made by a few individuals that sometimes, blind people associate exclusively with other blind people on a personal level, and this is what can be unhealthy. I think balance is always important in anything. No one should have blind or sighted friends simply based on the fact of whether they can see or not. But having only  friends  that belong to one subset of people can be limiting in some ways.

Briley

On Mar 27, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> With all due respect to the discussions thus far regarding the
> components of identity and culture, I'd like to steer the conversation
> a little closer to what we originally started with when we were
> talking about belonging, or lack thereof, in the sighted world,
> joining student clubs, etc. I am curious--Is there such a thing as
> "over-identifying" with blindness or spending too much time with blind
> people? Does spending time with blind people necessarily take away
> from how much time and energy you can put into relationships with the
> sighted? Or, is it possible to simultaneously feel a strong connection
> with other blind people and still engage in productive connections
> with sighted people at work, and have healthy social connections with
> sighted people as well?
> 
> I tend to take the latter view, and am a little saddened when people
> make comments to the effect that we should spend less time with other
> blind people in order to achieve our goal of integration, as if the
> two objectives are mutually exclusive. Sometimes I think people (blind
> and sighted alike) have the implicit assumption that relationships
> with sighted people are somehow superior to relationships we have with
> the blind, and that it's to our advantage to, for example, avoid
> spending all our time at NFB meetings, or try not to work in the
> blindness field on principle, or to only date sighted people. Of
> course, people differ in the extremity of these views. But I do think
> it's entirely possible and healthy to juggle a strong "blind identity"
> with the other identities and connections we have in the world,
> without taking away from either one.
> 
> I'm interested to hear your views about this, but I'd like to close
> with a concrete example. When I was in high school and college, most
> of my close friends were blind. I often felt, as many of you have
> described, that I could only sustain casual relationships with sighted
> people, but that I could only feel the deep, reciprocal connections I
> had with other blind people. When I started graduate school, after
> receiving blindness training at LCB and being a member and leader in
> NABS for five years, I finally began to perceive that my fellow
> students, who were all sighted, didn't care much about my blindness
> and were for the most part able to treat me like anyone else. I have
> been dating a sighted guy for the past year, which is something I
> never thought would happen, and with him I feel the same kind of
> reciprocal intimacy that I thought I could only have with other blind
> people. My point in disclosing all that is that I honestly don't think
> I would have reached this level of confidence and belonging in my
> sighted community if I hadn't had the strong, affirming relationships
> that I had for so many years with my blind friends. Around other blind
> people I felt normal and capable, and was able to become a
> reciprocating partner and a leader. I had to be able to do those
> things and practice them over time before I could go into the
> uncertainty of a new sighted community with the right social skills
> and confidence to integrate and build new connections, including
> finding my boyfriend. It's just something to think about.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 3/27/10, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This will be the fourth time that I've clarified what I said, but what I
>> said keeps getting distorted, so I'll try one more time.
>> 
>> Jedi said,
>> two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I can give
>> birth.
>> 
>> I've read every message on this subject, and I didn't read one man, let
>> alone two, say anything like that.
>> 
>> How on earth could anyone know how you perceive yourself? I certainly don't,
>> and I have never said that I did.  For the record, I have no idea how Jedi
>> perceives herself.  I only know that she says that she doesn't give much
>> thought to her ability to give birth, and I don't question that at all.  But
>> that is just not the issue that is being discussed.  How you perceive
>> yourself has nothing to do with this.  Identity is much more than just how
>> you perceive yourself.  Your ability to perceive, how you perceive, what you
>> perceive, these are all already influenced by your identity.  So whether or
>> not you think about a particular feature of yourself does not alone
>> determine whether it is or is not a part of your identity.
>> 
>> I truly regret bringing up the ability to give birth.  There is way too much
>> bagage that comes with a discussion of that topic, and I clearly offended
>> some people, which I had no intention of doing.  The fact that I'm a man
>> makes my bringing it up all the more problematic for some.  I tried to
>> choose my words carefully, including the clarification that I was in no way
>> suggesting that women are defined by this ability, but even this wasn't
>> enough to avoid the bagage, which is fine, I get that.  It was a bad
>> example, but the disappointing thing is that so much energy has been focused
>> on this one example that it has over-shadowed what could have been a deeper
>> discussion of blindness and identity.  That is unfortunate and makes me
>> really wish I had never mentioned it.
>> 
>> No hard feelings I hope.
>> 
>> Marc
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>> Behalf Of Jedi
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:46 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity
>> 
>> 
>> Briley,
>> 
>> I'm glad you said something because it took me a while to understand
>> why I replied so snarkily last time. I realized that I felt incensed
>> that two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I
>> can give birth. To me, it was as bad as if some sighted person got on
>> list and told us all that our lack of eyesight shapes how we see
>> ourselves. Some would say yes, and others would say no. For those who
>> would say no, I think we'd feel pretty frustrated because it would be
>> almost like that sighted person was telling us that because they saw us
>> differently because we're blind, so should we regardless if we do or
>> not. What frustrated me most is that I twice said that, in my
>> experience of not being a mother, I didn't think much about my ability
>> to have children and yet I felt argued with as though someone who saw
>> themselves as having more authority on the topic, a man, had the final
>> authority on how I felt about myself as a woman. It was so frustrating.
>> And you're quite right that men probably don't think about their
>> ability to be part of the procreation process any more or less than we
>> do. Same goes for sighted people. I've heard sighted people say that
>> they don't realize how much they take for granted, and that's quite
>> true. They mean to say that they feel sorry for us, but the fact is
>> that they really have no idea how much privilege they have in society
>> just as many in a given "superior" (in quotes) class don't. Thanks
>> again for your comments.
>> 
>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi
>> 
>> 
>> Original message:
>>> Jedi,
>> 
>>> I thought you handled the issue of giving birth quite capably. I am not
>>> a mother yet, so no, I don't think about my ability to pop out kids as
>>> a big part of who I am... or really ponder it as a part of identity at
>>> all. Do you men see your ability to participate in making children as a
>>> part of your identity? Probably not. So, it is semi chauvinist of you
>>> to assume we are attached to our uterus as a part of us that gives us
>>> self worth.
>> 
>>> Briley
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 27, 2010, at 3:55 AM, Jedi wrote:
>> 
>>>> Well, if we want to get down to brass tacks, we can all say that we
>>>> will never know just how our being is affects our perceptions, but the
>>>> bottom line still lies at the fact that our perception of our beingness
>>>> is largely determine by what our culture teaches us about it, and
>>>> identity is the presentation of how we respond to those teachings in
>>>> our interactions with ourselves and others.
>> 
>>>> I think it's interesting that two men have been interested in whether
>>>> or not I see myself differently because I can give birth yet no women
>>>> have weighed in on the subject. I also think they're more interesting
>>>> in my birthing abilities than I am. Well gentlemen, you're welcome to
>>>> those abilities so long as you're willing to take the identity that
>>>> comes with them. *tongue in cheek*
>> 
>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> Original message:
>>>>> The point is that without ever having had the experience of being a man,
>> you
>>>>> cannot say for sure that your being a woman does or does not have an
>> impact
>>>>> on how you see yourself or experience the world. I suspect it does, but
>>>>> without any basis for comparison, you can't say. Just as my being blind
>> from
>>>>> birth prohibits me from determining whether or not or to what degree my
>>>>> blindness affects how I view myself and experience the world. My gut
>> feeling
>>>>> is that my blindness has a fairly profound affect on at least a
>> significant
>>>>> subset of the things I experience and the way in which I experience
>> them.
>> 
>>>>> Blindness is absolutely part of my identity, as is my height, skin color
>> and
>>>>> love of the Chicago Cubs. Your identity is just an exhaustive list of
>> all of
>>>>> the characteristics and attributes which make a particular person the
>>>>> particular person that they are.
>> 
>>>>> To what degree I identify myself as blind or identify with the greater
>>>>> community of blind people is a completely separate question from that of
>>>>> whether or not blindness is part of my identity.
>> 
>>>>> I don't think blindness, strictly defined, is a social construct, while
>> I
>>>>> think the concept of disability is. I'm sure that to articulate my
>> reasons
>>>>> for feeling this way would require more time than I am willing to put
>> into
>>>>> it now, but that is my gut feeling.
>> 
>>>>> Thought I'd throw my two cents into this interesting discussion.
>> 
>>>>> All the best,
>> 
>>>>> Sean
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org
> 
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