From dravant at ameritech.net Sat May 1 19:24:35 2010 From: dravant at ameritech.net (denise avant) Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 14:24:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] items for sale Message-ID: Hello dave, I am making some slight changes in my home computer use. and I have the following items for sale can you post them on any of your lists you think appropriate. Thank you. Acer Netbook computer with cd/dvd external drive see below Acer Aspire One AOA150-1672 8.9-Inch Netbook (1.6 GHz Intel Atom N270 Processor, 1 GB RAM, 160 GB Hard Drive, XP Home, 6 Cell Battery) Pink 1. HQRP USB 2.0 External Slim CD / DVD-RW (DVD Burner) Drive (White) for Acer Aspire One ZG5 ; Dell Mini 9 10 12 Netbook/Subnotebook lu HQRP Asking $200.00 total 2. Jaws for windows professional version 11 no smas left asking $550.00 3. 3. Hp 1012 lasar printer $65.00 The computer/cd drive have been rarely used. The same is true for the printer. All items are excellent working condition. If interested, e-mail me at dravant at ameritech.net Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (6) Recent Activity: · New Members 2 Visit Your Group -- List Owners: Tom Klaus and Rick Harmon to post a message, send a message to: blind-bst at yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from the list, send a message to: blind-bst-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com Other list commands are listed below. MARKETPLACE Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. ---------- Welcome to Mom Connection! Share stories, news and more with moms like you. ---------- Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests. Image removed by sender. Yahoo! Groups Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use . -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 5af948a.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 359 bytes Desc: not available URL: From srp at internode.on.net Sun May 2 02:38:09 2010 From: srp at internode.on.net (Steve Pattison) Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 21:38:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] new product announcement from Solona. Has to do with iPhone Message-ID: >From Bernard Maldonado To: bits at acb.org I have posted this on twitter and the solona webpage, but I thought I'd send the text to the bits mailing list also. I apologize if anyone has already read the article. This is the blog article text: By Bernard Maldonado For over one year, Solona has worked hard to provide the highest quality of Captcha Solving for screen reader users. Now, I am happy to announce the first adaptive product offered by Solona. iPhone owners keep reading! Do you find your fingers dancing around the touch screen of your iPhone? Have you ever wondered how to make touch screen navigation a little easier on your Apple device? Solona is proud to introduce a new screen protector that transforms your iPhone touch screen into a tactile keyboard. Whether you prefer landscape mode or portrait mode, the new Solona Enhanced Screen Protector will function properly and provide you with a tactile map of the keyboard. Each screen protector is carefully embossed with the tactile effect so that your touch screen navigation is fast and accurate. Here's how it works. Each letter key is elevated with one distinct dot. Each function key is elevated with two distinct dots. That way, you can easily distinguish between letters and function keys. This slight enhancement provides your iPhone with an additional layer of accessibility. If you are interested in receiving an Enhanced Screen Protector, please read the Screen Protector Page for more information and instructions to order your's today. You may elect to send your own for us to process . We will enhance them free of charge and return them to you via USPS. The other option is to purchase a set of two Tactile Screen Protectors directly from Solona. For a fixed price of $19, Solona will provide you with two Power Support brand Crystal Screen Protectors for your iPhone that have been enhanced with the tactile keyboard effect. iPhones are magnificent devices. Apple is to be commended for incorporating native accessibility into both families of products. Most people use screen protectors in an effort to reduce the threat of screen damage and to extend the life and accuracy of the touch screen functionality. If you are already using screen protectors, then you understand how they work. Imagine your current screen protector, yet with elevated dots strategically positioned on each key to provide you with a roadmap of your iPhone keyboard. If you have never used a screen protector for your iPhone, I recommend that you do some independent research. Discover how other people use them. Read about how to install them. Get an idea for how they help extend the life of your iPhone touch screen. If you would like to enhance your iPhone touch screen with an Enhanced Screen Protector by Solona, please visit the Solona Screen Protector Page at www.solona.net. From bcsarah.fan at gmail.com Sun May 2 19:05:29 2010 From: bcsarah.fan at gmail.com (bcsarah.fan at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 12:05:29 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS archives Message-ID: Hi: This question may have an obvious answer but figured it was valid and that I would ask anyway. Where are the archives for the list located? There doesn't seem to be a link to them at the beginning of e-mails (I receive digest mode) and there's nothing in my subscription reminder e-mail or in that log in page either. Am I missing something? I just wanted to check the archives for a topic before I mindlessly posted it to the list when it has probably been discussed a thousand times before. Thanks, Patricia From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun May 2 19:22:38 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 12:22:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers Message-ID: <8EDCD384-2F87-40FC-A7BA-4804670B7102@gmail.com> Hello to all. I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who attend there. Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? Take care. a nervous Sarah From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun May 2 19:32:28 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 15:32:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS archives Message-ID: <46FD0057-440C-44D9-9C48-ED89F3D7ED29@mac.com> Patricia: Just type the word "help" without the quotes to the request address and you'll get an email with info and instructions that should help. Jorge From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun May 2 20:16:37 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 16:16:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] End Your Weekend Right With The Djd Invasion Tonight Message-ID: <7936DA1EFA074BD2BCDFCB0C8B5A76D7@radio360usa> Hi All! The last couple of weeks saw things move slowly for The Djd Invasion show. Some technical difficulties among other things took away from the broadcasting and listening experience for all concerned with the show. But tonight, all that has changed, and the invasion is ready to end the weekend in style! Join me starting at 8 PM eastern for the first Djd Invasion of May 2010 on the station where variety matters most, Radio360! This evening's program really defines what avriety is all about. As far as the music, whether you want some oldies, new music, upbeat songs or balads, there's something in tonight's lineup for the eclectic music fan. In addition, we've got a cash it or trash it track, and perhaps Will, one of our other djs, may decide to challenge us to some fun game play. Will that happen? Tune in and find out! And as always, your requests and comments are welcome by email, msn or aol instant messenger at the address live at radio360.us or when the lines are open, we'll be happy to take your calls through skype at the address radio360usa or by telephone at 516-717-4425 The weather outside may be warm, but the invasion sound will be hot tonight, so to listen, save this message, and between 8 PM and 12 AM eastern, go to http://www.radio360.us/players/playerselection.shtml to select your listening options and to tune in. Hope to see you all there! Best regards, David AKA Djd, host of The Djd Invasion on Radio360 http://www.radio360.us From dianefilipe at peoplepc.com Sun May 2 20:30:02 2010 From: dianefilipe at peoplepc.com (Diane) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 14:30:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: <8EDCD384-2F87-40FC-A7BA-4804670B7102@gmail.com> References: <8EDCD384-2F87-40FC-A7BA-4804670B7102@gmail.com> Message-ID: <67A50D842E6241C7A98BC2A5E058ACE8@DianePC> Congratulations Sarah! Are you in Boston? Di ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "nabs list list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:22 PM Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers > Hello to all. > > I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to > live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who > attend there. > > Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? > > Take care. > > a nervous > > Sarah > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 2 20:35:43 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 15:35:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots Message-ID: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> Good afternoon all, I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago when I began digging a little deeper. The federation has always been an important force in my life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits of information at state conventions or national events. But most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, life events have spurred me on to discover more about our roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has a point which I think is important, so stay with me. I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need for further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an amazing job of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are available online going back 25 years, and important speeches are available in both text and recorded form going back before that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it took to get out there every day and command respect from a sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the older generation of the federation of being too "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I think we've lost respect for our past. I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness should not limit our life choices. Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. We will all be better for it. Best, Briley From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun May 2 20:57:01 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 15:57:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard In-Reply-To: <30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> References: <93F33BE1-6948-4CF6-86B4-F6055B0EEDB0@mac.com> <30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> Message-ID: This is slightly off topic, but have any of you thought about purchasing an IPad with an external bluetooth keyboard as an alternative to a braille notetaker? You could also connect a blue tooth braille display for more hands on reading. This would still be a cheaper alternative to a notetaker. I'm just curious to see what people think. Best Wishes, Domonique On 4/30/10, Serena wrote: > Hi guys, > > One thing I don't like about the computer-style keyboard is, at least on my > friend's BN I get to practice on, it doesn't display the last character I > write, until I type another. (My friend is deaf-blind, so we communicate > via the BN when we're hanging out.) E.G., if I write "What?", I don't see > the question mark on the display, until I press the space bar. Since I'm > not all that familiar with the layout, I'm not always sure if I wrote a > question mark or a slash. I don't know I wrote a slash, until I press the > space bar! Is this a flaw with the computer-style keyboard? Or is there a > setting that can be changed to make the display show each character as you > write, like the Braille keyboard does? > > Thanks, > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:00 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer > keyboard > > >> Some people prefer to use an electronic notetaker such as the BrailleNote >> because the accessibility is built in and they like the simplicity when >> all that is really needed is taking notes. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "clinton waterbury" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >> keyboard >> >> >>> This is true, but why take a laptop when that would be duplicating what >>> you're using the bn/pac mate or what ever you want to use as a notetaker? >>> You could just turn around and get a braille display that connects up to >>> a laptop for reading braille for the price you pay for something that >>> does word processing and all that kind of stuff like the bn does, but >>> that's a matter of personal preference. >>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>> >>>> Well, >>>> it really depends. >>>> I have used a computer keyboard a lot with my laptop, but like the >>>> ability to write grade 2 braille. >>>> Part of it is the ability to type entire words, being able to take notes >>>> >>>> a lot faster--only typing one sign for the, etc. >>>> The thing is, I haven't been used to a computer keyboard on a notebook >>>> device, so I'd go for braille just because I know it better, but in your >>>> >>>> case it may depend. >>>> However, I wouldn't recommend you rely souly on the Apex. >>>> In my experience the note has been perfect for taking notes and that's >>>> about it--(E.G. completely failing at Internet except at my home >>>> network), though they claim they have made improvements. >>>> My best bet is go for which ever one you feel better, but try and get >>>> a--or take your laptop as a backup. >>>> >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sun May 2 21:40:50 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 14:40:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard References: <93F33BE1-6948-4CF6-86B4-F6055B0EEDB0@mac.com><30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> Message-ID: <12D00B5E868D407A9F32FFC58FFA0365@stanford.edu> This is JMHO, but, for something that I would take to class and depend on and need to run right all the time, I would rather have one of the electronic Braille notetakers that has the accessibility features built in. If I could find some combination of Braille displays, screen readers, and other mainstream and adaptive technology that I felt was less likely to have problems, I would certainly consider it. BTW, does anyone know how long it takes an IPad or other device of the sorts to start up? That is the other trade off--the Braille notetakers usually take less than 5 seconds to start. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard > This is slightly off topic, but have any of you thought about > purchasing an IPad with an external bluetooth keyboard as an > alternative to a braille notetaker? You could also connect a blue > tooth braille display for more hands on reading. This would still be a > cheaper alternative to a notetaker. I'm just curious to see what > people think. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 4/30/10, Serena wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> One thing I don't like about the computer-style keyboard is, at least on >> my >> friend's BN I get to practice on, it doesn't display the last character I >> write, until I type another. (My friend is deaf-blind, so we communicate >> via the BN when we're hanging out.) E.G., if I write "What?", I don't >> see >> the question mark on the display, until I press the space bar. Since I'm >> not all that familiar with the layout, I'm not always sure if I wrote a >> question mark or a slash. I don't know I wrote a slash, until I press >> the >> space bar! Is this a flaw with the computer-style keyboard? Or is there >> a >> setting that can be changed to make the display show each character as >> you >> write, like the Braille keyboard does? >> >> Thanks, >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >> keyboard >> >> >>> Some people prefer to use an electronic notetaker such as the >>> BrailleNote >>> because the accessibility is built in and they like the simplicity when >>> all that is really needed is taking notes. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "clinton waterbury" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>> keyboard >>> >>> >>>> This is true, but why take a laptop when that would be duplicating what >>>> you're using the bn/pac mate or what ever you want to use as a >>>> notetaker? >>>> You could just turn around and get a braille display that connects up >>>> to >>>> a laptop for reading braille for the price you pay for something that >>>> does word processing and all that kind of stuff like the bn does, but >>>> that's a matter of personal preference. >>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, >>>>> it really depends. >>>>> I have used a computer keyboard a lot with my laptop, but like the >>>>> ability to write grade 2 braille. >>>>> Part of it is the ability to type entire words, being able to take >>>>> notes >>>>> >>>>> a lot faster--only typing one sign for the, etc. >>>>> The thing is, I haven't been used to a computer keyboard on a notebook >>>>> device, so I'd go for braille just because I know it better, but in >>>>> your >>>>> >>>>> case it may depend. >>>>> However, I wouldn't recommend you rely souly on the Apex. >>>>> In my experience the note has been perfect for taking notes and that's >>>>> about it--(E.G. completely failing at Internet except at my home >>>>> network), though they claim they have made improvements. >>>>> My best bet is go for which ever one you feel better, but try and get >>>>> a--or take your laptop as a backup. >>>>> >>>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun May 2 21:42:01 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 16:42:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The archives are at: http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/nabs-l_nfbnet.org Unfortunately search isn't working right now, so the best thing to do is probably search via google or another search engine, you could put nabs-l nfbnet.org in your search string. Dave At 02:05 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >Hi: > >This question may have an obvious answer but figured it was valid and >that I would ask anyway. Where are the archives for the list located? >There doesn't seem to be a link to them at the beginning of e-mails (I >receive digest mode) and there's nothing in my subscription reminder >e-mail or in that log in page either. Am I missing something? I just >wanted to check the archives for a topic before I mindlessly posted it >to the list when it has probably been discussed a thousand times >before. > >Thanks, > >Patricia From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 2 22:11:18 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 17:11:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard In-Reply-To: <12D00B5E868D407A9F32FFC58FFA0365@stanford.edu> References: <93F33BE1-6948-4CF6-86B4-F6055B0EEDB0@mac.com><30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> <12D00B5E868D407A9F32FFC58FFA0365@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <7964B631-80FF-4EBA-AA72-890DB95970CF@gmail.com> One of the advantages of an Apple IPad is that it starts up just as fast as a notetaker, and, (honestly), seems to have less issues than a notetaker. Also, getting an IPad repaired is far easier and less expensive than getting a notetaker repaired. We've all had to deal with Human-where-art-thou at some point, and I'd much rather take my IPad to an Apple Store than send my unit in for an undetermined period of time. Also, the accessibility is built in to Apple devices. I haven't had any issues with Voiceover being unreliable, and while nothing is perfect and everything will stop working at some point, I find using it much more pleasant and convenient than using an overpriced notetaker. I miss having a notetaker sometimes because of the built in braille display, however since the IPad now supports bluetooth options, I am more comfortable with the idea of recommending the Apple option to students. Briley On May 2, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > This is JMHO, but, for something that I would take to class and depend on and need to run right all the time, I would rather have one of the electronic Braille notetakers that has the accessibility features built in. If I could find some combination of Braille displays, screen readers, and other mainstream and adaptive technology that I felt was less likely to have problems, I would certainly consider it. BTW, does anyone know how long it takes an IPad or other device of the sorts to start up? That is the other trade off--the Braille notetakers usually take less than 5 seconds to start. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard > > >> This is slightly off topic, but have any of you thought about >> purchasing an IPad with an external bluetooth keyboard as an >> alternative to a braille notetaker? You could also connect a blue >> tooth braille display for more hands on reading. This would still be a >> cheaper alternative to a notetaker. I'm just curious to see what >> people think. >> >> Best Wishes, >> Domonique >> >> On 4/30/10, Serena wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> One thing I don't like about the computer-style keyboard is, at least on my >>> friend's BN I get to practice on, it doesn't display the last character I >>> write, until I type another. (My friend is deaf-blind, so we communicate >>> via the BN when we're hanging out.) E.G., if I write "What?", I don't see >>> the question mark on the display, until I press the space bar. Since I'm >>> not all that familiar with the layout, I'm not always sure if I wrote a >>> question mark or a slash. I don't know I wrote a slash, until I press the >>> space bar! Is this a flaw with the computer-style keyboard? Or is there a >>> setting that can be changed to make the display show each character as you >>> write, like the Braille keyboard does? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:00 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>> keyboard >>> >>> >>>> Some people prefer to use an electronic notetaker such as the BrailleNote >>>> because the accessibility is built in and they like the simplicity when >>>> all that is really needed is taking notes. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "clinton waterbury" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:55 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>>> keyboard >>>> >>>> >>>>> This is true, but why take a laptop when that would be duplicating what >>>>> you're using the bn/pac mate or what ever you want to use as a notetaker? >>>>> You could just turn around and get a braille display that connects up to >>>>> a laptop for reading braille for the price you pay for something that >>>>> does word processing and all that kind of stuff like the bn does, but >>>>> that's a matter of personal preference. >>>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Well, >>>>>> it really depends. >>>>>> I have used a computer keyboard a lot with my laptop, but like the >>>>>> ability to write grade 2 braille. >>>>>> Part of it is the ability to type entire words, being able to take notes >>>>>> >>>>>> a lot faster--only typing one sign for the, etc. >>>>>> The thing is, I haven't been used to a computer keyboard on a notebook >>>>>> device, so I'd go for braille just because I know it better, but in your >>>>>> >>>>>> case it may depend. >>>>>> However, I wouldn't recommend you rely souly on the Apex. >>>>>> In my experience the note has been perfect for taking notes and that's >>>>>> about it--(E.G. completely failing at Internet except at my home >>>>>> network), though they claim they have made improvements. >>>>>> My best bet is go for which ever one you feel better, but try and get >>>>>> a--or take your laptop as a backup. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Sun May 2 22:23:09 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 17:23:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> Message-ID: As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is what we had to fight for! And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to be in the real world. Dave At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >Good afternoon all, > >I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to >often overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. >I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully >understand our history until about a month ago when I began digging >a little deeper. > >The federation has always been an important force in my life, and >has shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods >where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard about what great >leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits of information at >state conventions or national events. But most of the focus has >always been on the here and now, which is understandable to a point. >It is vital that we understand the obstacles that the blind >community as a whole faces on a daily basis, and how the federation >is responding to them. However, life events have spurred me on to >discover more about our roots. I'll keep the story short for >brevity's sake, but it has a point which I think is important, so stay with me. > >I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of >the blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need >for further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for >being a federationist. He began asking me questions about how the >federation began, how the philosophy developed, and how the >rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to >answer a lot of his questions, and was disappointed in myself. I >knew vague details about Dr. Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa >Commission for the Blind, and something about airplane issues in the >70's and 80's, but beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB >was supremely limited. After discussing this with some of my friends >in the organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. >I'm on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We have >lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots are vital to >the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. > >I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an >amazing job of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a >gold mine of information, even some of the parts that are hard to >see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are available online going back >25 years, and important speeches are available in both text and >recorded form going back before that. I have found myself appalled >by the discrimination that blind people faced even just twenty years >ago. The fortitude it took to get out there every day and command >respect from a sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. > >I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the >older generation of the federation of being too "militant," or >"confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older >generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read >about what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take >for granted today, you develop a greater respect for their views and >approach. We still have a long way to go in some respects, but we >have come far, and I think we've lost respect for our past. > >I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and >progress our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be >amazed, and it will make you really understand, respect, and love >this organization. I have had my share of frustrations with the >organization over the years. But I must admit that I am so proud to >be a part of the NFB, not just for what it has meant to me, but what >it has done even before I was born to insure that I can live and >work in a world where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. >No organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we must >all remember to appreciate this community we have, built upon a >solid foundation provided by many generations of blind people before >us, tirelessly working to show that blindness should not limit our >life choices. > >Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. >We will all be better for it. > >Best, >Briley From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun May 2 22:45:19 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 18:45:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard References: <93F33BE1-6948-4CF6-86B4-F6055B0EEDB0@mac.com><30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> Message-ID: <33F70B1D78FA44F487F0B279B44AC6E7@Ashley> I don't always keep up with latest technology. What does the IPAD do? If you got one does it have built in talking software or how would you use it? I definately am looking for an alternative that is cheaper than a electronic notetaker. Currently I have a Braille Note but when it crashes I may not be able to afford to replace it. Voc rehab bought it for me but I may be employed when something happens to it. Therefore I'd be on my own with expenses. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard > This is slightly off topic, but have any of you thought about > purchasing an IPad with an external bluetooth keyboard as an > alternative to a braille notetaker? You could also connect a blue > tooth braille display for more hands on reading. This would still be a > cheaper alternative to a notetaker. I'm just curious to see what > people think. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 4/30/10, Serena wrote: >> Hi guys, >> >> One thing I don't like about the computer-style keyboard is, at least on >> my >> friend's BN I get to practice on, it doesn't display the last character I >> write, until I type another. (My friend is deaf-blind, so we communicate >> via the BN when we're hanging out.) E.G., if I write "What?", I don't >> see >> the question mark on the display, until I press the space bar. Since I'm >> not all that familiar with the layout, I'm not always sure if I wrote a >> question mark or a slash. I don't know I wrote a slash, until I press >> the >> space bar! Is this a flaw with the computer-style keyboard? Or is there >> a >> setting that can be changed to make the display show each character as >> you >> write, like the Braille keyboard does? >> >> Thanks, >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:00 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >> keyboard >> >> >>> Some people prefer to use an electronic notetaker such as the >>> BrailleNote >>> because the accessibility is built in and they like the simplicity when >>> all that is really needed is taking notes. >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "clinton waterbury" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>> keyboard >>> >>> >>>> This is true, but why take a laptop when that would be duplicating what >>>> you're using the bn/pac mate or what ever you want to use as a >>>> notetaker? >>>> You could just turn around and get a braille display that connects up >>>> to >>>> a laptop for reading braille for the price you pay for something that >>>> does word processing and all that kind of stuff like the bn does, but >>>> that's a matter of personal preference. >>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, >>>>> it really depends. >>>>> I have used a computer keyboard a lot with my laptop, but like the >>>>> ability to write grade 2 braille. >>>>> Part of it is the ability to type entire words, being able to take >>>>> notes >>>>> >>>>> a lot faster--only typing one sign for the, etc. >>>>> The thing is, I haven't been used to a computer keyboard on a notebook >>>>> device, so I'd go for braille just because I know it better, but in >>>>> your >>>>> >>>>> case it may depend. >>>>> However, I wouldn't recommend you rely souly on the Apex. >>>>> In my experience the note has been perfect for taking notes and that's >>>>> about it--(E.G. completely failing at Internet except at my home >>>>> network), though they claim they have made improvements. >>>>> My best bet is go for which ever one you feel better, but try and get >>>>> a--or take your laptop as a backup. >>>>> >>>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From gera1027 at gmail.com Sun May 2 22:49:08 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 17:49:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness Message-ID: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to use it can serve two purposes: 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind to let us know. 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it easier to get to know the route by ourselves. Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought on recently. Gerardo From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun May 2 23:03:30 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 19:03:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <77E039D735D94E008E2E106349B19387@Serene> You should always use your cane when using sighted guide for the reasons you salready pointed out and, this might seem obvious, safety! You can't simply rely on sighted people to be careful for you ... you have to be careful yourself. I have a friend who's deaf and blind, so can't speak to tell me where to go. as a result, I always use sighted guide with him because that's our only way to stay together. I don't actually think of what we're doing as "sighted guide.' I just think of it as how we communicate while walking, just part of our friendship. I'm always as independent and safe as possible when we're walking and, if I'm ever not, he finds a way to tell me! **smile** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "BlindStudents" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:49 PM Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted > guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with > has > never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert > us > of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to > use it can serve two purposes: > 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to > oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind > to let us know. > 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it > easier to get to know the route by ourselves. > Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: > Is > it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I > know > the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience > while > studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I > wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held > it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the > experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out > but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a > conflict > because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people > and > lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind > aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives > me > the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people > feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know > in > the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how > advanced > you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to > be > able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping > these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might > learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought > on recently. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun May 2 23:06:22 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 19:06:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home Message-ID: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> Hi all, Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got that class three times a week. I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm sure some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing parent or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or dinner or maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned that way. I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be involved and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or "Parents: a blind child's first mobility teacher". I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got involved with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more around here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was as a teen. They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the laundry machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do laundry, labeling, and how to clean some areas. So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they can't teach you everything. Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works for dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the refrigerator and freezer food. Ashley From clb5590 at gmail.com Sun May 2 23:11:55 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 19:11:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home In-Reply-To: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> References: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> Message-ID: I keep my food in certain aries of the refridgerator and cabinets, and my roommates know this, and they have done well with not moving it around. I do not label things with unique packaging, but a labeler is great for this. My mom started early with helping me with things. Everyone in my family knew how to help me though, it wasn't just her, and i was always expected to do as much as my brother and sister chores wise, so when i needed to learn something new they just taught me. Early intervention teachers did come to my house when i was young and helped my parents get started, and before that they didn't know what to do, so i am very thankful they were able to get help early. I think it is sad that many eye doctor's offices refuse to connect blind people or parents of blind children with blindness organizations or other blind people they know. I understand confidentiality, but these rules were not around when i was younger, so my early intervention specialist connected my mom with the nfb, and she was able to meet several successful blind adults which really helped my family to not limit me. Cindy On 5/2/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our > state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind > instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got > that class three times a week. > > I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm sure > some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing parent > or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or dinner or > maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned that way. > > I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be involved > and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or "Parents: a > blind child's first mobility teacher". > I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got involved > with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more around > here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was as a teen. > They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the laundry > machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do laundry, > labeling, and how to clean some areas. > > So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This > was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab > teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of > your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they can't > teach you everything. > > Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works for > dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the refrigerator and > freezer food. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun May 2 23:17:44 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 19:17:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] getting employment Message-ID: Hi all, Now that I finished school last year, I'm looking for employment full time or part time if that is what comes along.I am looking for administrative and clerical jobs mostly because that is what I'm qualified for. I haven't found many leads yet partly since the economy is bad. Any advice? I'm trying to network with friends and former coworkers from internships. How long did the job search take? When you were interviewed did they ask you about your vision or were accomodations discussed? I am hopefully when I do apply and then get interviewed they focus on my skills not my vision. I don't mind sharing about alternative techniques and how I might use different tools for the job, but I don't want much focus on my visual impairment. Ashley From dandrews at visi.com Sun May 2 23:19:50 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 18:19:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: In my opinion a person should always use his/her cane, even when using the sighted guide technique. Ultimately, you are responsible for your mobility -- not someone else. It isn't fair to dump the whole thing on them. You have a vested interest in traveling safely. Finally, if a person is on your left side, for example, they might misjudge the distance between you and an obstacle or another person on the right, away from them. If you are using your cane on that side you will pick it up. Dave At 05:49 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has >never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us >of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >use it can serve two purposes: >1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >to let us know. >2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >easier to get to know the route by ourselves. From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 2 23:30:54 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 18:30:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and our purpose as an organization will better define that line between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom much is given, much is required, and I think people all too often forget that. Briley On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is what we had to fight for! > > And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to be in the real world. > > Dave > > At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >> Good afternoon all, >> >> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago when I began digging a little deeper. >> >> The federation has always been an important force in my life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits of information at state conventions or national events. But most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, life events have spurred me on to discover more about our roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >> >> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need for further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >> >> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an amazing job of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are available online going back 25 years, and important speeches are available in both text and recorded form going back before that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it took to get out there every day and command respect from a sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >> >> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the older generation of the federation of being too "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I think we've lost respect for our past. >> >> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness should not limit our life choices. >> >> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. We will all be better for it. >> >> Best, >> Briley > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 2 23:33:09 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 18:33:09 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard In-Reply-To: <33F70B1D78FA44F487F0B279B44AC6E7@Ashley> References: <93F33BE1-6948-4CF6-86B4-F6055B0EEDB0@mac.com><30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> <33F70B1D78FA44F487F0B279B44AC6E7@Ashley> Message-ID: <1EE567C1-09E3-4609-8B4B-165C47020249@gmail.com> Check out apple.com/accessibility for more information, but yes, the IPad does have a built in screen reader at no extra cost to the blind user. It is a touch screen device that some may compare to a netback. It also serves as a completely accessible EBook reader, and I think will change the face of assistive technology in many ways. We are moving closer to a universal access mindset, and this will only help us on our way to equality with a sighted public. Briley On May 2, 2010, at 5:45 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > I don't always keep up with latest technology. What does the IPAD do? If you got one does it have built in talking software or how would you use it? > > I definately am looking for an alternative that is cheaper than a electronic notetaker. Currently I have a Braille Note but when it crashes I may not be able to afford to replace it. Voc rehab bought it for me but I may be employed when something happens to it. Therefore I'd be on my own with expenses. > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard > > >> This is slightly off topic, but have any of you thought about >> purchasing an IPad with an external bluetooth keyboard as an >> alternative to a braille notetaker? You could also connect a blue >> tooth braille display for more hands on reading. This would still be a >> cheaper alternative to a notetaker. I'm just curious to see what >> people think. >> >> Best Wishes, >> Domonique >> >> On 4/30/10, Serena wrote: >>> Hi guys, >>> >>> One thing I don't like about the computer-style keyboard is, at least on my >>> friend's BN I get to practice on, it doesn't display the last character I >>> write, until I type another. (My friend is deaf-blind, so we communicate >>> via the BN when we're hanging out.) E.G., if I write "What?", I don't see >>> the question mark on the display, until I press the space bar. Since I'm >>> not all that familiar with the layout, I'm not always sure if I wrote a >>> question mark or a slash. I don't know I wrote a slash, until I press the >>> space bar! Is this a flaw with the computer-style keyboard? Or is there a >>> setting that can be changed to make the display show each character as you >>> write, like the Braille keyboard does? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Serena >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:00 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>> keyboard >>> >>> >>>> Some people prefer to use an electronic notetaker such as the BrailleNote >>>> because the accessibility is built in and they like the simplicity when >>>> all that is really needed is taking notes. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "clinton waterbury" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:55 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>>> keyboard >>>> >>>> >>>>> This is true, but why take a laptop when that would be duplicating what >>>>> you're using the bn/pac mate or what ever you want to use as a notetaker? >>>>> You could just turn around and get a braille display that connects up to >>>>> a laptop for reading braille for the price you pay for something that >>>>> does word processing and all that kind of stuff like the bn does, but >>>>> that's a matter of personal preference. >>>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Well, >>>>>> it really depends. >>>>>> I have used a computer keyboard a lot with my laptop, but like the >>>>>> ability to write grade 2 braille. >>>>>> Part of it is the ability to type entire words, being able to take notes >>>>>> >>>>>> a lot faster--only typing one sign for the, etc. >>>>>> The thing is, I haven't been used to a computer keyboard on a notebook >>>>>> device, so I'd go for braille just because I know it better, but in your >>>>>> >>>>>> case it may depend. >>>>>> However, I wouldn't recommend you rely souly on the Apex. >>>>>> In my experience the note has been perfect for taking notes and that's >>>>>> about it--(E.G. completely failing at Internet except at my home >>>>>> network), though they claim they have made improvements. >>>>>> My best bet is go for which ever one you feel better, but try and get >>>>>> a--or take your laptop as a backup. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 2 23:48:40 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 18:48:40 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <3E39DDD7-5CE7-4562-A1A8-CFD6C0D3E35F@gmail.com> It is encouraged to use a cane, even when traveling sighted guide. This way, you are still in command of your own travel. You still are interacting with your environment, in addition to the information the sighted person may be providing you. Traveling at any point with no mobility aid is not safe, and leaves you vulnerable. Briley On May 2, 2010, at 5:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted > guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has > never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us > of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to > use it can serve two purposes: > 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to > oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind > to let us know. > 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it > easier to get to know the route by ourselves. > Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is > it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know > the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while > studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I > wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held > it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the > experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out > but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict > because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and > lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind > aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me > the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people > feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in > the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced > you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be > able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping > these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might > learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought > on recently. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun May 2 23:54:15 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 19:54:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> Message-ID: Briley, I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan posts. I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's funny that you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I have to contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is almost completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the National Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with fundraising and technological design that everyday philosophy has been forgotten. It is my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner than the engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 years, maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the source, are you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and our purpose as an organization will better define that line between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom much is given, much is required, and I think people all too often forget that. Briley On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is what we had to fight for! > > And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to be in the real world. > > Dave > > At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >> Good afternoon all, >> >> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago when I began digging a little deeper. >> >> The federation has always been an important force in my life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits of information at state conventions or national events. But most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, life events have spurred me on to discover more about our roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >> >> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need for further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >> >> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an amazing job of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are available online going back 25 years, and important speeches are available in both text and recorded form going back before that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it took to get out there every day and command respect from a sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >> >> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the older generation of the federation of being too "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I think we've lost respect for our past. >> >> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness should not limit our life choices. >> >> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. We will all be better for it. >> >> Best, >> Briley > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 3 00:01:16 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:01:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <8C1FEF53EAF747B08EA6E735E4C37D60@Ashley> Gerardo, I think its fine to use your cane while walking sighted guide. I've done it for the reasons you mentioned. It gives me more protection if the sighted person forgets to alert, me of drop offs. My advice is to make your cane arc narrower though because you don't want to trip your guide. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "BlindStudents" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:49 PM Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted > guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with > has > never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert > us > of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to > use it can serve two purposes: > 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to > oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind > to let us know. > 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it > easier to get to know the route by ourselves. > Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: > Is > it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I > know > the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience > while > studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I > wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held > it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the > experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out > but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a > conflict > because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people > and > lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind > aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives > me > the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people > feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know > in > the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how > advanced > you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to > be > able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping > these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might > learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought > on recently. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From ccook01 at knology.net Mon May 3 00:18:00 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:18:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <000001caea56$16fbd3d0$44f37b70$@net> Dave, I agree with you here. I have been in that spot where my guide mis judged an obstacle. Kind of hurt -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In my opinion a person should always use his/her cane, even when using the sighted guide technique. Ultimately, you are responsible for your mobility -- not someone else. It isn't fair to dump the whole thing on them. You have a vested interest in traveling safely. Finally, if a person is on your left side, for example, they might misjudge the distance between you and an obstacle or another person on the right, away from them. If you are using your cane on that side you will pick it up. Dave At 05:49 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has >never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us >of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >use it can serve two purposes: >1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >to let us know. >2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >easier to get to know the route by ourselves. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From trillian551 at gmail.com Mon May 3 00:37:15 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:37:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <3E39DDD7-5CE7-4562-A1A8-CFD6C0D3E35F@gmail.com> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <3E39DDD7-5CE7-4562-A1A8-CFD6C0D3E35F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Gerardo, First, i agree with everyone else about cane use while using sighted guide. As for the second part of your email. I was born in colombia, and so I am very aware of how blindness is viewed in Hispanic/Latino countries. For the most part your own family members will most likely encourage you to not use your cane, preferring that you use your sighted cousins, brothers, sisters and other relatives you guide you around. You have two choices, either you go with the flow, or you decide to take your independence in your own hands and choose to use your cane. In America, it is true that the Federation has done quite a lot of positive work as far as social views are concerned, however, I know everyone on this list comes across someone 5 out of 7 days in the week who are simply amazed that they can walked on their own, or who will grab them terrified that a blind person is actually walking. So, no matter where you are, you are always goign to come across this conflict. Using your cane is a loud and clear announcement that you are blind and that you can't hide it. But think about it, how much better can you hide it when you don't use it? What will people think when you just walk around hesitantly, stumbling along, or running into things? They might not think your blind, but that you have something seriously wrong with you. It's important for us to be very comfortable with our blindness, to accept it, and accepting your cane is a very good step. The more comfortable you feel, the more comfortable others will feel too. I know the stigma that comes along with it, when i came to the U.S. I absolutely detested my cane. But back in the 1940s when the Federation first began, I know that every blind person here felt the same way, it took someone to accept their blindness, to defy society's view that blind people cannot do anything more intellectually stringent than making chairs, for any change to come along. Hope this helps. Mary On 5/2/10, Briley Pollard wrote: > It is encouraged to use a cane, even when traveling sighted guide. This way, > you are still in command of your own travel. You still are interacting with > your environment, in addition to the information the sighted person may be > providing you. Traveling at any point with no mobility aid is not safe, and > leaves you vulnerable. > > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 5:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >> has >> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >> us >> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >> >> use it can serve two purposes: >> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >> >> to let us know. >> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >> >> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: >> Is >> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >> know >> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >> while >> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >> >> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >> >> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >> >> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >> conflict >> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >> and >> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >> >> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >> me >> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know >> in >> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >> advanced >> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >> be >> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >> >> on recently. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com Mon May 3 01:42:11 2010 From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 18:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers Message-ID: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Congrats on the admission. I will miss seeing you around campus. Sent from my iPod On May 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: Hello to all. I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who attend there. Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? Take care. a nervous Sarah _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 3 02:05:36 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 21:05:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a whole. Thanks for your thoughts, Briley On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Briley, > > I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan posts. > I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's funny that > you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I have to > contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our > generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is almost > completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the National > Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with fundraising > and technological design that everyday philosophy has been forgotten. It is > my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner than the > engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 years, > maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the source, are > you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of > entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and > our purpose as an organization will better define that line > between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom > much is given, much is required, and I think people all too > often forget that. > > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that > our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is > what we had to fight for! >> >> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, > but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever > be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some > stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement > attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to > be in the real world. >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>> Good afternoon all, >>> >>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel > is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a > movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly > didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago > when I began digging a little deeper. >>> >>> The federation has always been an important force in my > life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during > the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard > about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits > of information at state conventions or national events. But > most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is > understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the > obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily > basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, > life events have spurred me on to discover more about our > roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has > a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>> >>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved > with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently > realized his need for further training, and that lead him to > ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me > questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy > developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. > I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was > disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. > Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, > and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but > beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely > limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the > organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm > on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me > after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We > have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots > are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >>> >>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done > an amazing job of making our history available to us. > www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the > parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are > available online going back 25 years, and important speeches > are available in both text and recorded form going back before > that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that > blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it > took to get out there every day and command respect from a > sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>> >>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization > accuse the older generation of the federation of being too > "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree > with how the older generation has approached some issues, when > you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to > be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a > greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a > long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I > think we've lost respect for our past. >>> >>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the > beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 > years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really > understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my > share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But > I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not > just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even > before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world > where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No > organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we > must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built > upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind > people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness > should not limit our life choices. >>> >>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our > history. We will all be better for it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Briley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 3 02:53:59 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 22:53:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home References: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> Message-ID: <1896152944E3478991F01F5181D46F2F@Ashley> Hi Cindy, That's a good story. I am the youngest of three children; muy brothers are older. You were fortunate that your mom was like this. My mother never had the patience to show me things. My parents did most of the house work; so looking back my brothers didn't do many jobs either. They often helped my father in the yard moe grass though. I'm glad to hear stories like yours. Being taught how to take care of a home along with your siblings is the way it should be. Then you aren't thrown into it as an adult having to learn so much at once. Early intervention people came to work with me but I think that was focussed on the basics such as my gross and fine motor skills. Cindy even though you keep your food in certain areas of the cabinents, many things feel alike such as canned fruits and vegetables and box mixes. You must have a good memory to know what everything is! That or some vision to read labels. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Bennett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills at home >I keep my food in certain aries of the refridgerator and cabinets, and > my roommates know this, and they have done well with not moving it > around. I do not label things with unique packaging, but a labeler is > great for this. > > My mom started early with helping me with things. Everyone in my > family knew how to help me though, it wasn't just her, and i was > always expected to do as much as my brother and sister chores wise, so > when i needed to learn something new they just taught me. > > Early intervention teachers did come to my house when i was young and > helped my parents get started, and before that they didn't know what > to do, so i am very thankful they were able to get help early. > > I think it is sad that many eye doctor's offices refuse to connect > blind people or parents of blind children with blindness organizations > or other blind people they know. I understand confidentiality, but > these rules were not around when i was younger, so my early > intervention specialist connected my mom with the nfb, and she was > able to meet several successful blind adults which really helped my > family to not limit me. > > Cindy > > On 5/2/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our >> state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind >> instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got >> that class three times a week. >> >> I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm >> sure >> some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing >> parent >> or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or dinner >> or >> maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned that way. >> >> I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be >> involved >> and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or "Parents: a >> blind child's first mobility teacher". >> I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got >> involved >> with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more around >> here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was as a >> teen. >> They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the laundry >> machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do laundry, >> labeling, and how to clean some areas. >> >> So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This >> was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab >> teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of >> your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they >> can't >> teach you everything. >> >> Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works >> for >> dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the refrigerator >> and >> freezer food. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Mon May 3 03:54:52 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 21:54:52 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] knfb reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006401caea74$6340d6a0$29c283e0$@org> Greetings Jorge, You might get the rest of your answers at www.knfbreader.com Classic knfb readers aren't being sold by the company anymore. I do know of several people who use the phone version as a stand-alone reader and never use the telephone component. Where we live in Colorado, A.T.&T. is not very good service, and both it and Team Mobile are horrible to use for people with certain hearing impairments or who work around sound equipment. As to the question of upgrading your phone are just buying the software, it's certainly doable. I don't know what the costs would be, but they're laid out on the website I listed above. I hope this helps. Regards, Maryann Migliorelli From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon May 3 03:57:57 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 23:57:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> "We're changing what it means to be blind," Are we really? Why is it, we still have a 75 percent unemployment rate among the blind, if we're really changing what it means to be blind? I brought this up to my sister, and she said, "What can you do? grow up you're blind!" She thinks the NFB is just a joke! Instead of Dr. Maurer giving the Banquet speach, Why not have a young person give the speach, and talk about the challenges they're facing! I'm turning 31, and I've yet to see the leadership involve the younger generation. Talk to us about Dr. Jernigan! What did he teach? What did he believe about blindness and blind people? I've been listening to the MP3's of his speach's, and he wanted us to be able to obtain a job, and to live on our own! But its become more about fund raising, and the convention has become something of a formality! I don't have to be there, to know this. you can hear it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but >I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if >something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a >responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs >to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on >my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of >the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation >didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach >to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly >of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better >effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a >whole. > > Thanks for your thoughts, > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Briley, >> >> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >> posts. >> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's funny >> that >> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I have to >> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >> almost >> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >> National >> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >> fundraising >> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been forgotten. It >> is >> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner than >> the >> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 years, >> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the source, >> are >> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> >> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >> often forget that. >> >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >> what we had to fight for! >>> >>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >> be in the real world. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>> Good afternoon all, >>>> >>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>> >>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >> of information at state conventions or national events. But >> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>> >>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >>>> >>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>> >>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>> >>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >> should not limit our life choices. >>>> >>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >> history. We will all be better for it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Briley >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Mon May 3 04:26:50 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 22:26:50 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006b01caea78$da7869a0$8f693ce0$@org> Greetings Briley, Bravo for you!!! Very well said!!! I would advise that you get the audio copy of "The mana and the movement" when you can, especially if you can get the one with the original speeches included. It's a long read but definitely worth the time and attention. It always amazes me to hear blind people say that they "did it all on their own." Our history is different in situations but not in the nature from many other civil rights minorities. None of us have done it alone. We all stand on the shoulders of some pretty incredible giants who have helped to pave the way for us, and, hopefully, we will all work to raise up new giants to continue moving our cause forward. Regards, Maryann Migliorelli From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Mon May 3 05:06:10 2010 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 00:06:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: It is true that fundraising plays a large role in the organization, but I believe that that is because, especially the way the economy is now, we need money. In order to lower the unemployment rate, the organization needs money to fund programs for blindness skills trainning. In order to raise the percentage of blind children learning Braille, the organization needs money to fund campaigns to promote Braille literacy and better education efforts for teachers of blind students. We are currently in the worst financial situation since the Great Depression so we may not have as much money as we may have had previously. Hence, the apparent increased trend toward fundraising. As far as national convention being a formality, I believe that that is going a little too far. I believe that part of the goal of national convention is to meet with other blind people to discuss what has worked and what hasn't; both in other states, and for previous generations. Also, the president of the National Federation of the Blind should give the banquet speech as the president represents the entire NFB and it shows a connection between the leadership of the organization and the members of the organization. The banquet speech is also, in part, a motivational speech thus more people will listen if it comes from the mouth of someone like the president. Also, the president is a very powerful institution, and I believe that we should utilize that institution whenever possible. I also do believe that young people in the organization need to be in some of the leadership roles in the organization, but that members of previous generations also need to be in a position of leadership because we do need to be able to look back to the past to see what has worked and what hasn't. Also, the previous generation is someone to look up to so it makes sense that they would be in a leadership role. Members of previous generations give a sense of tradition to the organization, and I believe that this is a valulable asset. These are simply my sentiments. Respectfully, Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students On 02/05/2010, RJ Sandefur wrote: > "We're changing what it means to be blind," Are we really? Why is it, we > still have a 75 percent unemployment rate among the blind, if we're really > changing what it means to be blind? I brought this up to my sister, and she > said, "What can you do? grow up you're blind!" She thinks the NFB is just a > joke! Instead of Dr. Maurer giving the Banquet speach, Why not have a young > person give the speach, and talk about the challenges they're facing! I'm > turning 31, and I've yet to see the leadership involve the younger > generation. Talk to us about Dr. Jernigan! What did he teach? What did he > believe about blindness and blind people? I've been listening to the MP3's > of his speach's, and he wanted us to be able to obtain a job, and to live on > our own! But its become more about fund raising, and the convention has > become something of a formality! I don't have to be there, to know this. you > can hear it. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > >>I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but >> >>I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if >> >>something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a >>responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs >>to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on >>my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of >>the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation >>didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach >>to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly >>of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better >>effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a >>whole. >> >> Thanks for your thoughts, >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Briley, >>> >>> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >>> posts. >>> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's funny >>> that >>> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I have to >>> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >>> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >>> almost >>> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >>> National >>> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >>> fundraising >>> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been forgotten. It >>> >>> is >>> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner than >>> the >>> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 years, >>> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the source, >>> are >>> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >>> >>> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >>> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >>> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >>> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >>> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >>> often forget that. >>> >>> Briley >>> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >>> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >>> what we had to fight for! >>>> >>>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >>> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >>> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >>> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >>> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >>> be in the real world. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>>> Good afternoon all, >>>>> >>>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >>> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >>> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >>> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >>> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>>> >>>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >>> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >>> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >>> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >>> of information at state conventions or national events. But >>> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >>> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >>> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >>> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >>> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >>> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >>> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>>> >>>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >>> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >>> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >>> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >>> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >>> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >>> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >>> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >>> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >>> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >>> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >>> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >>> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >>> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >>> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >>> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >>> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >>>>> >>>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >>> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >>> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >>> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >>> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >>> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >>> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >>> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >>> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >>> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>>> >>>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >>> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >>> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >>> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >>> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >>> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >>> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >>> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >>> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>>> >>>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >>> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >>> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >>> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >>> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >>> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >>> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >>> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >>> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >>> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >>> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >>> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >>> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >>> should not limit our life choices. >>>>> >>>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >>> history. We will all be better for it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Briley >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com “It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come.” --Dalai Lama From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 06:02:38 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 23:02:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: <67A50D842E6241C7A98BC2A5E058ACE8@DianePC> References: <8EDCD384-2F87-40FC-A7BA-4804670B7102@gmail.com> <67A50D842E6241C7A98BC2A5E058ACE8@DianePC> Message-ID: Not yet. I'm still in vegas. On May 2, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Diane wrote: > Congratulations Sarah! > Are you in Boston? > Di > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" > To: "nabs list list" > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:22 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers > > >> Hello to all. >> >> I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who attend there. >> >> Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? >> >> Take care. >> >> a nervous >> >> Sarah >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 06:03:14 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 23:03:14 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56822E1F-3422-4B4E-9318-AEB5AAA656E1@gmail.com> Oh lol. yeah. thanks. S On May 2, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Rob wrote: > Congrats on the admission. I will miss seeing you around campus. > > Sent from my iPod > > On May 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > Hello to all. > > I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who attend there. > > Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? > > Take care. > > a nervous > > Sarah > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 06:09:17 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 23:09:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: I use the cane when I'm gign sighted guide that way I can keep myself safe. I have no comments on the second questin though as I have not had those experiences though. Tc S On May 2, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted > guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has > never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us > of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to > use it can serve two purposes: > 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to > oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind > to let us know. > 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it > easier to get to know the route by ourselves. > Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is > it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know > the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while > studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I > wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held > it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the > experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out > but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict > because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and > lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind > aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me > the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people > feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in > the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced > you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be > able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping > these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might > learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought > on recently. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 06:10:51 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 23:10:51 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <8C1FEF53EAF747B08EA6E735E4C37D60@Ashley> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <8C1FEF53EAF747B08EA6E735E4C37D60@Ashley> Message-ID: <4ACE8C00-F77B-42B4-861F-79A6B3B696AA@gmail.com> OH I did not think of that. I usually use a normal arc with disasterous results though lol. Thanks. On May 2, 2010, at 5:01 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Gerardo, > I think its fine to use your cane while walking sighted guide. I've done it for the reasons you mentioned. It gives me more protection if the sighted person forgets to alert, me of drop offs. My advice > is to make your cane arc narrower though because you don't want to trip your guide. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" > To: "BlindStudents" > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:49 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > > >> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has >> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us >> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >> use it can serve two purposes: >> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >> to let us know. >> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is >> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know >> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while >> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict >> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and >> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me >> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in >> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced >> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be >> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >> on recently. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 3 06:21:46 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 01:21:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <85DDF3C2-E7C9-46D8-A04A-8791FFCD712E@gmail.com> Fundraising is of course important. I don't think focus needs to be taken from that. I think younger people are becoming more every day, but I think if younger people want more important roles, they need to step up a little more, and show that they care about the organization. Both the present as well as the past. Young people seem to be good at doing a lot of complaining and a lot of talking, but when it comes to getting their hands dirty, they are non committal. Of course this isn't true of everyone, and I think that our current NABS board is made up of people who really care and want to work to make this organization better. But all too often, I see students who want a title, but none of the responsibility that goes along with it. It is my sincere belief that if people had a firm foundation and understanding in where we have come from, they would be willing to put in the time and effort to push us forward, regardless of the recognition they'd receive for it. I know everyone wants appreciation for what they do, and I have at too been frustrated at times. But through learning and appreciating how far we've come, I care more about the blind, and less about my movement up the ladder. I don't say this to make myself appear any better than I am. I only say it to try and illustrate the power of knowledge, and I only wrote the original EMail to encourage everyone to explore it for themselves. I do wish that National would place a greater emphasis on our past, and require state leadership to know and understand more about it. This knowledge would help them more effectively lead their states, and spur local membership on to action. I also think it would help the entire organization feel more connected as a whole, from the local chapter all the way up to the president. Instead of just talking about it on this list, I want to know what we, as the younger generation, can do to change this? Talk is important, but action is required to make real change. I'm glad to see that this has opened discussion. Briley On May 3, 2010, at 12:06 AM, Jordan Richardson wrote: > It is true that fundraising plays a large role in the organization, > but I believe that that is because, especially the way the economy is > now, we need money. In order to lower the unemployment rate, the > organization needs money to fund programs for blindness skills > trainning. In order to raise the percentage of blind children > learning Braille, the organization needs money to fund campaigns to > promote Braille literacy and better education efforts for teachers of > blind students. We are currently in the worst financial situation > since the Great Depression so we may not have as much money as we may > have had previously. Hence, the apparent increased trend toward > fundraising. > > As far as national convention being a formality, I believe that that > is going a little too far. I believe that part of the goal of > national convention is to meet with other blind people to discuss what > has worked and what hasn't; both in other states, and for previous > generations. Also, the president of the National Federation of the > Blind should give the banquet speech as the president represents the > entire NFB and it shows a connection between the leadership of the > organization and the members of the organization. The banquet speech > is also, in part, a motivational speech thus more people will listen > if it comes from the mouth of someone like the president. Also, the > president is a very powerful institution, and I believe that we should > utilize that institution whenever possible. > > I also do believe that young people in the organization need to be in > some of the leadership roles in the organization, but that members of > previous generations also need to be in a position of leadership > because we do need to be able to look back to the past to see what has > worked and what hasn't. Also, the previous generation is someone to > look up to so it makes sense that they would be in a leadership role. > Members of previous generations give a sense of tradition to the > organization, and I believe that this is a valulable asset. > > These are simply my sentiments. > > Respectfully, > Jordan Richardson > 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > > On 02/05/2010, RJ Sandefur wrote: >> "We're changing what it means to be blind," Are we really? Why is it, we >> still have a 75 percent unemployment rate among the blind, if we're really >> changing what it means to be blind? I brought this up to my sister, and she >> said, "What can you do? grow up you're blind!" She thinks the NFB is just a >> joke! Instead of Dr. Maurer giving the Banquet speach, Why not have a young >> person give the speach, and talk about the challenges they're facing! I'm >> turning 31, and I've yet to see the leadership involve the younger >> generation. Talk to us about Dr. Jernigan! What did he teach? What did he >> believe about blindness and blind people? I've been listening to the MP3's >> of his speach's, and he wanted us to be able to obtain a job, and to live on >> our own! But its become more about fund raising, and the convention has >> become something of a formality! I don't have to be there, to know this. you >> can hear it. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> >> >>> I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but >>> >>> I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if >>> >>> something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a >>> responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs >>> to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on >>> my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of >>> the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation >>> didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach >>> to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly >>> of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better >>> effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a >>> whole. >>> >>> Thanks for your thoughts, >>> Briley >>> On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> Briley, >>>> >>>> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >>>> posts. >>>> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's funny >>>> that >>>> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I have to >>>> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >>>> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >>>> almost >>>> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >>>> National >>>> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >>>> fundraising >>>> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been forgotten. It >>>> >>>> is >>>> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner than >>>> the >>>> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 years, >>>> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the source, >>>> are >>>> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >>>> >>>> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >>>> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >>>> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >>>> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >>>> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >>>> often forget that. >>>> >>>> Briley >>>> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >>>> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >>>> what we had to fight for! >>>>> >>>>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >>>> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >>>> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >>>> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >>>> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >>>> be in the real world. >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> >>>>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>>>> Good afternoon all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >>>> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >>>> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >>>> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >>>> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>>>> >>>>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >>>> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >>>> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >>>> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >>>> of information at state conventions or national events. But >>>> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >>>> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >>>> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >>>> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >>>> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >>>> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >>>> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >>>> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >>>> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >>>> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >>>> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >>>> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >>>> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >>>> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >>>> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >>>> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >>>> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >>>> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >>>> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >>>> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >>>> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >>>> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >>>> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >>>>>> >>>>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >>>> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >>>> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >>>> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >>>> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >>>> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >>>> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >>>> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >>>> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >>>> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >>>> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >>>> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >>>> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >>>> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >>>> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >>>> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >>>> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >>>> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>>>> >>>>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >>>> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >>>> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >>>> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >>>> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >>>> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >>>> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >>>> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >>>> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >>>> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >>>> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >>>> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >>>> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >>>> should not limit our life choices. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >>>> history. We will all be better for it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Briley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >>>> 40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>>> info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>>> %40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>>> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Jordan Richardson > 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students > lilrichie411 at gmail.com > “It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as > much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the > long term for both yourself and others will come.” > --Dalai Lama > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 3 08:05:09 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 04:05:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots Message-ID: <20100503080509.1943.74157@web2> Briley, Thanks so much for your letter. I have often had many of the same sentiments you've expressed. As I learn more about the Federation's past, I feel a stronger sense of knowing when it comes to our present and future. I feel like a have a sort of road map of solid roots that informs my opinion on how I feel we ought to go about solving our more recent problems in society. Reading our past also helps me appreciate how the Federation has impacted my life outside of blindness. I find myself, for example, in favor of collectivve action instead of solitary advocacy in just about any situation where advocacy is needed. I also notice the federation's can-do attitude and problem-solving skills working in my daily life whether the issue is blindness-related or not. It's really hard to quantify/explain how the federation, especially its history, has influenced me. But I'm with you in that more of us need to keep in touch with our history. In that way, we have a much better sense of what it means to be blind. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Good afternoon all, > I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to > often overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. I've > grown up in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully understand > our history until about a month ago when I began digging a little deeper. > The federation has always been an important force in my life, and has > shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods where I > wasn't actively involved. I always heard about what great leaders we've > had, and was exposed to tidbits of information at state conventions or > national events. But most of the focus has always been on the here and > now, which is understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand > the obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily > basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, life > events have spurred me on to discover more about our roots. I'll keep > the story short for brevity's sake, but it has a point which I think is > important, so stay with me. > I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of > the blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need for > further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for being a > federationist. He began asking me questions about how the federation > began, how the philosophy developed, and how the rehabilitation views > of the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to answer a lot of his > questions, and was disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about > Dr. Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, and > something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but beyond that, > my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely limited. After > discussing this with some of my friends in the organization, I found > that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm on the board of our local > chapter, and it became apparent to me after out last meeting that this > is a widespread problem. We have lost touch with our past, and that is > never good. Roots are > vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. > I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an amazing > job of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a gold mine > of information, even some of the parts that are hard to see. Issues of > the Braille Monitor are available online going back 25 years, and > important speeches are available in both text and recorded form going > back before that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination > that blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it > took to get out there every day and command respect from a sighted > public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. > I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the older > generation of the federation of being too "militant," or > "confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older > generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read > about what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take for > granted today, you develop a greater respect for their views and > approach. We still have a long way to go in some respects, but we have > come far, and I think we've lost respect for our past. > I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and > progress our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be > amazed, and it will make you really understand, respect, and love this > organization. I have had my share of frustrations with the organization > over the years. But I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the > NFB, not just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even > before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world where I > am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No organization is perfect > because no person is perfect. But we must all remember to appreciate > this community we have, built upon a solid foundation provided by many > generations of blind people before us, tirelessly working to show that > blindness should not limit our life choices. > Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. We > will all be better for it. > Best, > Briley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 3 08:08:43 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 04:08:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots Message-ID: <20100503080843.32081.20801@web3> David, I'm not an "old timer" as you put it, but I agree with you one hundred percent. I frankly think that we sometimes ask for a lot we don't need because society's often willing to accommodate us without either side critically thinking about what implications exist in terms of overall inclusion. On the other hand, feeling comfortable with asking has also provided us comfort in asking for things that, especially with how technology's developing, we really need. And David, thanks for what your generation has done for us. It really means a lot to me. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that our > ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is what we had > to fight for! > And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, but where > we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever be as > comfortable as your generation with asking for some stuff. We also > feel somewhat like there is an entitlement attitude, and people are > not as self sufficient as they need to be in the real world. > Dave > At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >> Good afternoon all, >> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to >> often overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. >> I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully >> understand our history until about a month ago when I began digging >> a little deeper. >> The federation has always been an important force in my life, and >> has shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods >> where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard about what great >> leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits of information at >> state conventions or national events. But most of the focus has >> always been on the here and now, which is understandable to a point. >> It is vital that we understand the obstacles that the blind >> community as a whole faces on a daily basis, and how the federation >> is responding to them. However, life events have spurred me on to >> discover more about our roots. I'll keep the story short for >> brevity's sake, but it has a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of >> the blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need >> for further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for >> being a federationist. He began asking me questions about how the >> federation began, how the philosophy developed, and how the >> rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to >> answer a lot of his questions, and was disappointed in myself. I >> knew vague details about Dr. Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa >> Commission for the Blind, and something about airplane issues in the >> 70's and 80's, but beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB >> was supremely limited. After discussing this with some of my friends >> in the organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. >> I'm on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We have >> lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots are vital to >> the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. >> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an >> amazing job of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a >> gold mine of information, even some of the parts that are hard to >> see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are available online going back >> 25 years, and important speeches are available in both text and >> recorded form going back before that. I have found myself appalled >> by the discrimination that blind people faced even just twenty years >> ago. The fortitude it took to get out there every day and command >> respect from a sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the >> older generation of the federation of being too "militant," or >> "confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older >> generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read >> about what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take >> for granted today, you develop a greater respect for their views and >> approach. We still have a long way to go in some respects, but we >> have come far, and I think we've lost respect for our past. >> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and >> progress our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be >> amazed, and it will make you really understand, respect, and love >> this organization. I have had my share of frustrations with the >> organization over the years. But I must admit that I am so proud to >> be a part of the NFB, not just for what it has meant to me, but what >> it has done even before I was born to insure that I can live and >> work in a world where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. >> No organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we must >> all remember to appreciate this community we have, built upon a >> solid foundation provided by many generations of blind people before >> us, tirelessly working to show that blindness should not limit our >> life choices. >> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. >> We will all be better for it. >> Best, >> Briley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 3 08:14:42 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 04:14:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness Message-ID: <20100503081442.22386.43258@web1> Gerardo, I hate to inform you, but things aren't that much better in the U.S. than in Mexico. People see our canes and treat us differently here, too. We all have to ask ourselves about cane use and make decisions based on our inquiry just as Mexicans do. And unfortunately, while much change has taken place in our society to include us, we are still no where closer to full equality interpersonally than we were way back when. People still think we're either helpless or amazing. People are still afraid of blindness and blind people, and people would rather not show themselves as blind if that's what the dealis. These are generalizations, yes. but know that you're not alone here. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted > guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has > never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us > of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to > use it can serve two purposes: > 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to > oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind > to let us know. > 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it > easier to get to know the route by ourselves. > Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is > it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know > the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while > studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I > wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held > it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the > experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out > but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict > because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and > lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind > aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me > the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people > feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in > the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced > you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be > able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping > these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might > learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought > on recently. > Gerardo > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From corbbo at gmail.com Mon May 3 09:05:25 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 05:05:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am confused by the comments that Federation philosophy has been lost because of the fundraising and technology-based projects that our national office is working on. Those are two important projects, but our leadership in Baltimore is doing more than those. We have lawyers who are working to ensure we can take advantage of the same opportunities as the sighted; our governmental affairs team is working on our legislative priorities, including touch-screen kiosks and quiet cars; our education team continues to bring blind youth into the organization to show them that the possible career paths are limitless; our affiliate action team is working to strengthen the chapters and affiliates we have while finding new members and starting new chapters; and the list goes on. Yes, we are working on lots of priorities and projects, but each of them is backed by our philosophy on blindness. I don't understand how our philosophy is primarily for the banners -- it seems to me that the projects on which we work are effective precisely because of the philosophy. We aren't developing a car that the blind can drive just because it's fun or the technology is there, but we are working on this project because we believe that the blind are entitled to full, equal participation in society. Driving is one of those ways to participate. Am I a little scared by the idea of a bunch of blind people in cars on city streets? A little. But I'm confident that, just like when we teach people to use a chainsaw at the National Center, we will make sure that the skills are taught in a way that maximizes safety, confidence, and independence all at the same time. I would love to hear, Joe, why you say that the Federation won't exist in 50 years. To me, our work is timeless because our philosophy is our guiding light. --Corbb From clb5590 at gmail.com Mon May 3 12:17:42 2010 From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 08:17:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home In-Reply-To: <1896152944E3478991F01F5181D46F2F@Ashley> References: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> <1896152944E3478991F01F5181D46F2F@Ashley> Message-ID: Oh, i do label things, i just said i didn't label things with unique packaging. Cindy On 5/2/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Cindy, > That's a good story. I am the youngest of three children; muy brothers are > older. You were fortunate that your mom was like this. My mother never had > the patience to show me things. My parents did most of the house work; so > looking back my brothers didn't do many jobs either. They often helped my > father in the yard moe grass though. > > I'm glad to hear stories like yours. Being taught how to take care of a > home along with your siblings is the way it should be. Then you aren't > thrown into it as an adult having to learn so much at once. > > Early intervention people came to work with me but I think that was focussed > on the basics such as my gross and fine motor skills. > > Cindy even though you keep your food in certain areas of the cabinents, many > things feel alike such as canned fruits and vegetables and box mixes. You > must have a good memory to know what everything is! That or some vision to > read labels. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cindy Bennett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:11 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills at home > > >>I keep my food in certain aries of the refridgerator and cabinets, and >> my roommates know this, and they have done well with not moving it >> around. I do not label things with unique packaging, but a labeler is >> great for this. >> >> My mom started early with helping me with things. Everyone in my >> family knew how to help me though, it wasn't just her, and i was >> always expected to do as much as my brother and sister chores wise, so >> when i needed to learn something new they just taught me. >> >> Early intervention teachers did come to my house when i was young and >> helped my parents get started, and before that they didn't know what >> to do, so i am very thankful they were able to get help early. >> >> I think it is sad that many eye doctor's offices refuse to connect >> blind people or parents of blind children with blindness organizations >> or other blind people they know. I understand confidentiality, but >> these rules were not around when i was younger, so my early >> intervention specialist connected my mom with the nfb, and she was >> able to meet several successful blind adults which really helped my >> family to not limit me. >> >> Cindy >> >> On 5/2/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our >>> state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind >>> instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got >>> that class three times a week. >>> >>> I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm >>> sure >>> some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing >>> parent >>> or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or dinner >>> >>> or >>> maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned that way. >>> >>> I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be >>> involved >>> and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or "Parents: a >>> blind child's first mobility teacher". >>> I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got >>> involved >>> with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more around >>> here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was as a >>> teen. >>> They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the laundry >>> machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do laundry, >>> labeling, and how to clean some areas. >>> >>> So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This >>> was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab >>> teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of >>> your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they >>> can't >>> teach you everything. >>> >>> Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works >>> for >>> dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the refrigerator >>> and >>> freezer food. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com > From catherine.1966 at yahoo.com Mon May 3 12:42:00 2010 From: catherine.1966 at yahoo.com (Catherine Newman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 05:42:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <692503.14922.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://spikeh7107.justfree.com/ From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon May 3 14:01:43 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 10:01:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com><0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> Message-ID: <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic crisis. And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between 2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership will need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually supposed to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money and living for your purpose. My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state of the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of affiliate activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There is persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for these so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can bring the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate at which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at the local level. Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item has been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will not make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind can drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those cars. Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the technology that will navigate them. I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think the bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to satisfy Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a new generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation is too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the benefits of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers in math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a loyal finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the NFB. It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly transformed itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and business practice. Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young people that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? Sincerely, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 3 14:34:42 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 09:34:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com><0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> Message-ID: You make fair points, and much to think about. Though, to be fair, I did say that I think our current board is doing a great job, and full of people who want to work to change things. On May 3, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic crisis. > And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between > 2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots > advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense > ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see > outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership will > need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually supposed > to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money and > living for your purpose. > > My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state of > the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on > the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of affiliate > activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can > teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel > those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There is > persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual > fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for these > so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for > this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can bring > the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate at > which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at the > local level. > > Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item has > been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will not > make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and > immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind can > drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those cars. > Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford > them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the > technology that will navigate them. > > I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of > responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager > group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think the > bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to satisfy > Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a new > generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the > benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the > annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation is > too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared > enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the benefits > of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers in > math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, > want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a loyal > finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. > > Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the NFB. > It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. > Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned > from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly transformed > itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil > rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and > business practice. > > Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young people > that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? > > Sincerely, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From hope.paulos at maine.edu Mon May 3 15:09:28 2010 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:09:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <61D6AE659CF943168E8B8B02C272E4E3@Hope> Hi there. It's perfectly fine, in my opinion, to use your cane when going sighted guide. As far as the second question, I've never experienced this. I dislike using the cane, because I don't move as fast with a cane than I do with my guide dog. More people also talk to me when I'm with my dog than they do when I'm using a cane. If you have any questions about any of this, please feel free to email me off-list at hope.paulos at maine.edu Thanks! Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >I use the cane when I'm gign sighted guide that way I can keep myself safe. >I have no comments on the second questin though as I have not had those >experiences though. > > Tc > > S > On May 2, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >> has >> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >> us >> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >> to >> use it can serve two purposes: >> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >> mind >> to let us know. >> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >> it >> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: >> Is >> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >> know >> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >> while >> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when >> I >> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >> held >> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >> out >> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >> conflict >> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >> and >> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >> blind >> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >> me >> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know >> in >> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >> advanced >> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >> be >> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >> brought >> on recently. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Mon May 3 15:48:13 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 09:48:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard In-Reply-To: <7964B631-80FF-4EBA-AA72-890DB95970CF@gmail.com> References: <93F33BE1-6948-4CF6-86B4-F6055B0EEDB0@mac.com><30F860D1A7C64C079166D6FC8125E985@Serene> <12D00B5E868D407A9F32FFC58FFA0365@stanford.edu> <7964B631-80FF-4EBA-AA72-890DB95970CF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26A736B9-0717-4B14-90B7-2642076CE600@gmail.com> Yeah, I would hardily recommend apple for students especially! \When I had my macs break down the turn-around time was usually within two days of taking it into the apple store, and of course there's voiceover that, at least in my opinion, is beter than jaws for windows. On May 2, 2010, at 4:11 PM, Briley Pollard wrote: > One of the advantages of an Apple IPad is that it starts up just as fast as a notetaker, and, (honestly), seems to have less issues than a notetaker. Also, getting an IPad repaired is far easier and less expensive than getting a notetaker repaired. We've all had to deal with Human-where-art-thou at some point, and I'd much rather take my IPad to an Apple Store than send my unit in for an undetermined period of time. Also, the accessibility is built in to Apple devices. I haven't had any issues with Voiceover being unreliable, and while nothing is perfect and everything will stop working at some point, I find using it much more pleasant and convenient than using an overpriced notetaker. > > I miss having a notetaker sometimes because of the built in braille display, however since the IPad now supports bluetooth options, I am more comfortable with the idea of recommending the Apple option to students. > > Briley > > On May 2, 2010, at 4:40 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > >> This is JMHO, but, for something that I would take to class and depend on and need to run right all the time, I would rather have one of the electronic Braille notetakers that has the accessibility features built in. If I could find some combination of Braille displays, screen readers, and other mainstream and adaptive technology that I felt was less likely to have problems, I would certainly consider it. BTW, does anyone know how long it takes an IPad or other device of the sorts to start up? That is the other trade off--the Braille notetakers usually take less than 5 seconds to start. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer keyboard >> >> >>> This is slightly off topic, but have any of you thought about >>> purchasing an IPad with an external bluetooth keyboard as an >>> alternative to a braille notetaker? You could also connect a blue >>> tooth braille display for more hands on reading. This would still be a >>> cheaper alternative to a notetaker. I'm just curious to see what >>> people think. >>> >>> Best Wishes, >>> Domonique >>> >>> On 4/30/10, Serena wrote: >>>> Hi guys, >>>> >>>> One thing I don't like about the computer-style keyboard is, at least on my >>>> friend's BN I get to practice on, it doesn't display the last character I >>>> write, until I type another. (My friend is deaf-blind, so we communicate >>>> via the BN when we're hanging out.) E.G., if I write "What?", I don't see >>>> the question mark on the display, until I press the space bar. Since I'm >>>> not all that familiar with the layout, I'm not always sure if I wrote a >>>> question mark or a slash. I don't know I wrote a slash, until I press the >>>> space bar! Is this a flaw with the computer-style keyboard? Or is there a >>>> setting that can be changed to make the display show each character as you >>>> write, like the Braille keyboard does? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Serena >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 1:00 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>>> keyboard >>>> >>>> >>>>> Some people prefer to use an electronic notetaker such as the BrailleNote >>>>> because the accessibility is built in and they like the simplicity when >>>>> all that is really needed is taking notes. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "clinton waterbury" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 3:55 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] BrailleNote Apex--Braille keyboard v. computer >>>>> keyboard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> This is true, but why take a laptop when that would be duplicating what >>>>>> you're using the bn/pac mate or what ever you want to use as a notetaker? >>>>>> You could just turn around and get a braille display that connects up to >>>>>> a laptop for reading braille for the price you pay for something that >>>>>> does word processing and all that kind of stuff like the bn does, but >>>>>> that's a matter of personal preference. >>>>>> On Apr 28, 2010, at 3:59 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, >>>>>>> it really depends. >>>>>>> I have used a computer keyboard a lot with my laptop, but like the >>>>>>> ability to write grade 2 braille. >>>>>>> Part of it is the ability to type entire words, being able to take notes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a lot faster--only typing one sign for the, etc. >>>>>>> The thing is, I haven't been used to a computer keyboard on a notebook >>>>>>> device, so I'd go for braille just because I know it better, but in your >>>>>>> >>>>>>> case it may depend. >>>>>>> However, I wouldn't recommend you rely souly on the Apex. >>>>>>> In my experience the note has been perfect for taking notes and that's >>>>>>> about it--(E.G. completely failing at Internet except at my home >>>>>>> network), though they claim they have made improvements. >>>>>>> My best bet is go for which ever one you feel better, but try and get >>>>>>> a--or take your laptop as a backup. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jorge >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Mon May 3 15:58:47 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 09:58:47 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I started learning how to use the cane. The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the time I was about five. The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll take it from you." At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever since. On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted > guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has > never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us > of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to > use it can serve two purposes: > 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to > oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind > to let us know. > 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it > easier to get to know the route by ourselves. > Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is > it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know > the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while > studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I > wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held > it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the > experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out > but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict > because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and > lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind > aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me > the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people > feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in > the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced > you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be > able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping > these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might > learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought > on recently. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Mon May 3 16:18:12 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 12:18:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) References: <692503.14922.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: why is there only a link in the email with no text? Its best not to click on unknown links. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Newman" To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 8:42 AM Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) > http://spikeh7107.justfree.com/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Mon May 3 16:22:06 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:22:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: NASA Opens Applications For 'Inspired' High School Students Message-ID: Hello: I thought this might be of interest. Regards, Robert Jaquiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "NASA News" To: "NASA News" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: NASA Opens Applications For 'Inspired' High School Students > May 03, 2010 > > Ann Marie Trotta > Headquarters, Washington > 202-358-1601 > ann.marie.trotta at nasa.gov > > > > > RELEASE: 10-105 > > NASA OPENS APPLICATIONS FOR 'INSPIRED' HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS > > WASHINGTON -- High school students in the United States are invited to > participate in NASA's Interdisciplinary National Science Program > Incorporating Research Experience, or INSPIRE, through the program's > online learning community. > > Applications are being accepted from Monday, May 3 through Wednesday, > June 30. NASA will make selections for the program in September. > Selectees and their parents will participate in an online learning > community with opportunities to interact with peers, NASA engineers > and scientists. The online community also provides appropriate grade > level educational activities, discussion boards and chat rooms for > participants to gain exposure to careers and opportunities available > at NASA. > > Students selected for the program will have the option to compete for > unique grade-appropriate experiences during the summer of 2011 at > NASA facilities and participating universities. INSPIRE is designed > to encourage students in ninth through 12th grades to pursue careers > in science, technology, engineering and math, or STEM. The summer > experience provides students with a hands-on opportunity to > investigate education and careers in those disciplines. > > INSPIRE is part of NASA's education strategy to attract and retain > students in the STEM disciplines critical to NASA's missions. For > information about INSPIRE, visit: > > > > http://www.nasa.gov/education/INSPIRE > > > To apply for the program, visit: > > > > https://inspire.okstate.edu/index.cfm?liftoff=login.LoginForm > > > For information about NASA's education programs, visit: > > > > http://www.nasa.gov/education > > > -end- > > > > To subscribe to the list, send a message to: > hqnews-subscribe at mediaservices.nasa.gov > To remove your address from the list, send a message to: > hqnews-unsubscribe at mediaservices.nasa.gov From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon May 3 16:44:43 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 12:44:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com><0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn><16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> Message-ID: Well, if we're going to specifically hone in on whether or not the NABS board is full of people who are working hard to change things, this too is debatable. A few good weapons in that arcenal for sure. Yet, they did choose to run and put themselves out there, and that does demand a certain level of respect. Remember I do not blame the lack of progress on a complacent board but rather on the various political and logistical factors that make progress so slow. That is the fault of the political environment of the organization, not just the individuals. Unfortunately, I do not think a thorough understanding of the history would help the student division. It would certainly help individuals with their level of appreciation, but in a world of the NFB where if it don't make dollars it don't make sense, we need results, not just good feelings. From a purely neutral standpoint, the model the NFB has constructed for itself is almost brilliant. Me, I joined to help individuals, and I'm doing that in my local area on my spare time one agency consumer I randomly meet at a time. It's not that moneymakers aren't necessary and crucial to the movement. It's that the movement has given way to too many moneymakers. I'll raise funds because that's somehow where my career has landed me, but I want the funds I raise to go to state and local programs where measurable goals are met. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5082 (20100503) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From corbbo at gmail.com Mon May 3 16:56:18 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 12:56:18 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com><0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> Message-ID: <52896C60-0202-4894-BFCF-31A66778E71F@gmail.com> Joe, I am surprised that some don't see the benefits to our building of the Jernigan Institute. The older wing was crowded and didn't give us the flexibility we needed for large events. For those who don't see the benefits of what we have built in Baltimore, I urge you to go visit for a variety of different events. Our Members Hall is a huge, open space that works for youth events when they want to run around and for large-scale fundraisers. Our NFB of Utah Auditorium allows us to host the tenBroek Law Symposium every year, and provides space for our Baltimore chapter to have its meetings -- in essence -- for free. We have several conference rooms that make holding simultaneous conferences possible. As somebody who has organized and attended dozens of events in our building in Baltimore, the space gives us the flexibility, technology, and space to complete any type of event -- from formal galas to informal youth leadership conferences. If you haven't been to our Center for big and small events, I urge you to go. It is, after all, our building. Corbb From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 3 17:21:40 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 13:21:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots Message-ID: <20100503172140.2189.28982@web3> Joe, I first want to start by telling you that I agree with some of your observations. First, young blind people not in the Federation tend not to see its benefits because there doesn't seem much worth fighting for and the NFB seems not to value individual preferences. Many of the young non-NFB folks I speak to tell me that they don't want to join because the NFB doesn't seem to honor the fact that they prefer to use their remaining vision or get more assistance than what most NFB-ers are comfortable with. These young people also notice how easy it is to get what they ask for in most situations. They're views on that tend to change when they meet an obstacle they can't overcome alone. And yes, state-wide events seem not to draw people in unless one lives in an affiliate that caters to the young as well as those of middle age and older. I think you're right that we find ourselves in a bit of a bind so far as leadership is concerned. I don't think this is necessarily true nationally, but I definitely see it more on the state level. I know that Dr. Maurer has also observed this issue you're talking about in terms of older people not ready to give up the reigns and younger people not yet able to take them. I remember hearing him talk somewhat about this issue at a youth leadership seminar I attended back in 2006. I also think that Dr. Maurer and National are trying to address this issue in the states by some of the events you're talking about such as Youth slam. But first, I want to address your observations about fundraising. You're right that there has become quite an emphasis on fundraising in past years. It's not that that emphasis hasn't been there. It's just that our fundraising techniques have changed and we require more money to continue moving forward with our new programming. Back in the day, our fundraising efforts included telephone solicitations, mailing campeigns, greeting card sales, private wills, bequests, etc. These things still go on, but I think we've really begun to understand how helpful each individual member of our movement can be in getting funds, especially with technologies like conveyo. The Race for Independence/The March for Independence is a publicity campaign meant to bring our efforts into the public mind and give a target for individual community contributors to think about. For one thing, it's much easier for a non-NFB person to give money if they feel there's some kind of immediate cause and the March for Independence/Race for Independence provides a spotlight and an immediate cause. More than that, it gives us all a great excuse to freak out the local townspeople wherever we happen to convene. *Grin* about the places where our money goes. You're right that STEM programs like Youth Slam are very focused and may not represent the career goals of many students. However, these events include more than just science: there are philosophy discussions, technology seminars, recreational events, one-on-one mentoring opportunities, an opportunity to practice independent movement, and opportunity for people my age to practice mentoring and leadership skills, an opportunity to gain public attention and support, and opportunity to network with other foundations and agencies, and a way of giving young people contact with our movement in a seeminly less threatening environment. My affiliate has gained at least three participants since Youth Slam came around, and other kids are asking questions about Youth Slam. The science stuff is really just the surface of what we're really doing. If you haven't served at a Youth slam, you may want to and you'll know what I mean. And really, it takes a lot of money to put one of these on and support the staff and facilities for those who participate. The Jernigan Institute is definitely worth our money. I also want to talk some about our leadership bind that I mentioned. I think Youth Slam is one way to draw in and retain youth. The Imagination grants are another way since they can be used for local seminars. My affiliate just used a grant to put on a seminar for blind youth, their parents, and the teachers and professionals who serve them. The seminar was a great success and I think we've gotten some new leadership out of it. The Affiliate Action crew has spent an aweful lot of time and resources to bring many of us to Baltimore to train us in ways that our affiliate leadership may not. for one thing, I've been to many training seminars put on by Affiliate Action where I learned about growing affiliates , teaching the philosophy, learning how to work with older leadership, etc. So I feel that when I do find myself in a leadership position, i'll be more than ready. There is one thing I'd like to address spinning off your topic a bit. I think you're right that that there are a lot of affiliates and chapters where participation and energy are hard to come by. I experience that quite a lot and it drains my energy and enthusiasm as a local leader. I find it difficult to get excited about a project if I'm practically the only one doing it. I guess this takes me back to Briley and her initial statements. It's much easier and more meaningful to get involved in a colllective effort when one knows about its history. I know that my involvement has strengthened especially since I've learned the hard core parts of our history. If nothing else, I feel responsible for carrying out plans set forth by people who have suffered quite a lot on my behalf. About the car. That one's kind of tricky. I know what you mean in that the car won't necessarily get us jobs in and of itself. I also hear corbb about blind people getting on the road. I think Corbb's right that we'll find some way to make sure blind drivers are as safe as our sighted counterparts. I know there are a few reasons why we're working with Virginia Tech to build this car. It's more than just blind people doing the same as the sighted do. First of all, having a car will open up a few more opportunities, especially to those who do not live in an area with good transit and who don't have a lot of money to aford cabs on a regular basis. Yes, the car itself would represent a considerable investment, but it's hard to tell just yet how much greater that investment would be compared to regular taxi service.In any case, the car's technology will prove that a seemingly visual environment can be adapted for non-visual use; technology manufacturers will then have no more excuses not to build products with everyone in mind. Finally, the general public can't imagine blind people walking around. Imagine how much they're thinking will have to be re-examined when blind people start driving! After all, the car has raised some interesting discussion among blind people. I hope I'm making some sense. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic crisis. > And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between > 2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots > advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense > ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see > outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership will > need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually supposed > to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money and > living for your purpose. > My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state of > the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on > the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of affiliate > activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can > teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel > those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There is > persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual > fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for these > so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for > this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can bring > the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate at > which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at the > local level. > Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item has > been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will not > make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and > immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind can > drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those cars. > Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford > them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the > technology that will navigate them. > I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of > responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager > group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think the > bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to satisfy > Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a new > generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the > benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the > annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation is > too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared > enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the benefits > of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers in > math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, > want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a loyal > finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. > Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the NFB. > It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. > Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned > from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly transformed > itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil > rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and > business practice. > Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young people > that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? > Sincerely, > Joe > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 17:42:26 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 13:42:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should need it, but I put my trust in him. ~Jewel On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: > As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I > started learning how to use the cane. > > The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the time I > was about five. > > The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll take > it from you." > > At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! > > At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever > since. > On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >> has >> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >> us >> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >> >> use it can serve two purposes: >> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >> >> to let us know. >> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >> >> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: >> Is >> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >> know >> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >> while >> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >> >> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >> >> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >> >> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >> conflict >> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >> and >> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >> >> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >> me >> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know >> in >> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >> advanced >> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >> be >> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >> >> on recently. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 17:50:24 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 13:50:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> Message-ID: Hi, You make some very valid points. I find that the best ways to learn about the past of the NFB (which is anything before 2008 for me) is by reading previous Braille Monitor articles, as you said. Specifically, there was an article within the last year...I'm not sure when exactly, but it was republished from an edition of the Slate and Style. It was basically a speech given by Mrs. Jernigan to a group of writers, about the beginning of the Braille Monitor. It was very interesting. I also find the Kernel books to be a great reminder of the past, and I have a few books I got from Bookshare about Dr. Ten-Brooks and Dr. Jernigan (please excuse any bad spelling of names), both of whom I am sure we can all say the NFB would not truly be here without. If you haven't read the Kernel books yet, go to the Independenc Market and order some! They are free, and available in large print, tape (2 or 4 track) or Braille. I have a number of them in Braille, which I will certainly pass on when I'm finished...well, maybe, or maybe I'll just keep them to read over and over. Sometime, I'll do some work and make a list of the top 20 most important topics of the NFB since its beginning...or something like that. I'll list it here when I get to it. ~Jewel On 5/3/10, Briley Pollard wrote: > You make fair points, and much to think about. Though, to be fair, I did say > that I think our current board is doing a great job, and full of people who > want to work to change things. > On May 3, 2010, at 9:01 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic >> crisis. >> And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between >> 2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots >> advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense >> ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see >> outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership >> will >> need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually >> supposed >> to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money and >> living for your purpose. >> >> My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state of >> the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on >> the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of >> affiliate >> activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can >> teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel >> those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There >> is >> persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual >> fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for >> these >> so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for >> this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can bring >> the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate >> at >> which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at >> the >> local level. >> >> Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item >> has >> been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will >> not >> make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and >> immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind >> can >> drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those cars. >> Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford >> them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the >> technology that will navigate them. >> >> I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of >> responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager >> group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think >> the >> bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to >> satisfy >> Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a >> new >> generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the >> benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the >> annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation >> is >> too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared >> enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the >> benefits >> of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers in >> math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, >> want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a >> loyal >> finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. >> >> Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the >> NFB. >> It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. >> Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned >> from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly transformed >> itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil >> rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and >> business practice. >> >> Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young people >> that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? >> >> Sincerely, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon May 3 19:47:32 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 14:47:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1><6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64CC870B834F465AB67D268E83EB2A43@RainaIsmailPC> I use my cane as well. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 12:42 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness Hi, I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should need it, but I put my trust in him. ~Jewel On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: > As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I > started learning how to use the cane. > > The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the > time I was about five. > > The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? > I'll take it from you." > > At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! > > At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever > since. > On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going >> sighted guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm >> going with has never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus >> doesn't know to alert us of steps and the like. So I was thinking >> that if this technique is fine to >> >> use it can serve two purposes: >> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able >> to oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have >> the mind >> >> to let us know. >> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus >> make it >> >> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: >> Is >> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though >> I know the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad >> experience while studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some >> years ago in that when I >> >> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >> held >> >> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of >> the experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work >> them out >> >> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >> conflict because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as >> blind people and lets us move around by ourselves but also because >> here in Mexico the blind >> >> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane >> gives me the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the >> sighted people feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another >> country when I know in the US you guys don't have to cope with these >> things because of how advanced you guys are in the work you've done >> all these years. some day I hope to be able to be like you guys and >> really live by your standards, thus hoping these questions bring on a >> good discussion from which more than one might learn something new >> and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >> >> on recently. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.water >> bury%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2851 - Release Date: 05/03/10 01:27:00 From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 18:52:52 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 14:52:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS archives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you go to the NFB website (), click "Topic Index" and look for "discussion groups." Click that. It'll bring you to where you click "Change or Join" (I don't know if that's exact wording for that last one). Go down the list of discussion groups until you find the NABS list. Click it, and look for "archives" (I use JAWS, so do a ctrl+f and type in "archives" to get to it quickly. From there, you will be brought to the archives. Hope that helps! ~Jewel On 5/2/10, David Andrews wrote: > The archives are at: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/pipermail/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > Unfortunately search isn't working right now, so the best thing to do > is probably search via google or another search engine, you could put > nabs-l nfbnet.org in your search string. > > Dave > > At 02:05 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>Hi: >> >>This question may have an obvious answer but figured it was valid and >>that I would ask anyway. Where are the archives for the list located? >>There doesn't seem to be a link to them at the beginning of e-mails (I >>receive digest mode) and there's nothing in my subscription reminder >>e-mail or in that log in page either. Am I missing something? I just >>wanted to check the archives for a topic before I mindlessly posted it >>to the list when it has probably been discussed a thousand times >>before. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Patricia > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 18:04:22 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:04:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, I found out I start May 18. The website said jul 1 and the scholarship committee will decide if I get the thing this week. I think this is unfair. I think they should have given me more time to prepare. I am not packed and nothing is bought. I thought I'd have tome to find a place to stay during the summer but I guess not. I don't want to put myself in an unsafe situation. All of this is making me stress so what do I do now besides breathe? Lol. On May 2, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Rob wrote: > Congrats on the admission. I will miss seeing you around campus. > > Sent from my iPod > > On May 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > Hello to all. > > I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who attend there. > > Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? > > Take care. > > a nervous > > Sarah > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 18:06:12 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:06:12 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <61D6AE659CF943168E8B8B02C272E4E3@Hope> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <61D6AE659CF943168E8B8B02C272E4E3@Hope> Message-ID: <8FCF0273-8CFE-4C12-A666-41CA98DC8A74@gmail.com> I move faster with my cane then with my dog strangely enough. My cane sometimes give me support if my leg should decide to have a bad day. Gatsby still thinks mommy is hurt, or maybe she knows something I don't. Lol. dogs are smart things. Take care. S On May 3, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Hope Paulos wrote: > Hi there. It's perfectly fine, in my opinion, to use your cane when going sighted guide. As far as the second question, I've never experienced this. I dislike using the cane, because I don't move as fast with a cane than I do with my guide dog. More people also talk to me when I'm with my dog than they do when I'm using a cane. If you have any questions about any of this, please feel free to email me off-list at > hope.paulos at maine.edu > > Thanks! > Hope and Beignet > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:09 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness > > >> I use the cane when I'm gign sighted guide that way I can keep myself safe. I have no comments on the second questin though as I have not had those experiences though. >> >> Tc >> >> S >> On May 2, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has >>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us >>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >>> use it can serve two purposes: >>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >>> to let us know. >>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is >>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know >>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while >>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict >>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and >>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me >>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in >>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced >>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be >>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >>> on recently. >>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 18:07:22 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:07:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <6355B14F-98AF-42B9-9703-4E3BC98613C3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1F451D39-1D67-44B7-86F4-338BE488C098@gmail.com> Oh wow good story there. I used my cane starting at 5 as that's when I got one, the short ones that go up to the chest. I can see why now I was a slower travler. the longer canes have helped me with my travling,except when I accidently slam them int eh car door. lol Tc all. S On May 3, 2010, at 8:58 AM, clinton waterbury wrote: > As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I started learning how to use the cane. > > The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the time I was about five. > > The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll take it from you." > > At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! > > At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever since. > On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with has >> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert us >> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >> use it can serve two purposes: >> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >> to let us know. >> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: Is >> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I know >> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience while >> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a conflict >> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people and >> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives me >> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know in >> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how advanced >> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to be >> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >> on recently. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 18:14:42 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:14:42 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] new product announcement from Solona. Has to do with iPhone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4979FC18-5CC9-4EB4-BD8D-70595A7A5BDB@gmail.com> that's good but some apps require landskape and some require portrate so would you buy 2? to me tha'ts a bit counter productive and a bit counterintuative. Take care. S On May 1, 2010, at 7:38 PM, Steve Pattison (by way of David Andrews ) wrote: > >From Bernard Maldonado > To: bits at acb.org > > I have posted this on twitter and the solona webpage, but I thought I'd send > the text to the bits mailing list also. I apologize if anyone has already > read the article. > > This is the blog article text: > > By Bernard Maldonado > > For over one year, Solona has worked hard to provide the highest quality of > Captcha Solving for screen reader users. Now, I am happy to announce the > first adaptive product offered by Solona. > > iPhone owners keep reading! > > Do you find your fingers dancing around the touch screen of your iPhone? > Have you ever wondered how to make touch screen navigation a little easier > on your Apple device? > > Solona is proud to introduce a new screen protector that transforms your > iPhone touch screen into a tactile keyboard. > > Whether you prefer landscape mode or portrait mode, the new Solona Enhanced > Screen Protector will function properly and provide you with a tactile map > of the keyboard. > > Each screen protector is carefully embossed with the tactile effect so that > your touch screen navigation is fast and accurate. > > Here's how it works. Each letter key is elevated with one distinct dot. > Each function key is elevated with two distinct dots. That way, you can > easily distinguish between letters and function keys. This slight > enhancement provides your iPhone with an additional layer of accessibility. > > If you are interested in receiving an Enhanced Screen Protector, please read > the Screen Protector Page for more information and instructions to order > your's today. You may elect to send your own for us to process . > We will enhance them free of charge and return them to you via USPS. The > other option is to purchase a set of two Tactile Screen Protectors directly > from Solona. > > For a fixed price of $19, Solona will provide you with two Power Support > brand Crystal Screen Protectors for your iPhone that have been enhanced with > the tactile keyboard effect. > > iPhones are magnificent devices. Apple is to be commended for incorporating > native accessibility into both families of products. > > Most people use screen protectors in an effort to reduce the threat of > screen damage and to extend the life and accuracy of the touch screen > functionality. > > If you are already using screen protectors, then you understand how they > work. Imagine your current screen protector, yet with elevated dots > strategically positioned on each key to provide you with a roadmap of your > iPhone keyboard. > > If you have never used a screen protector for your iPhone, I recommend that > you do some independent research. Discover how other people use them. Read > about how to install them. Get an idea for how they help extend the life of > your iPhone touch screen. > > If you would like to enhance your iPhone touch screen with an Enhanced > Screen Protector by Solona, please visit the Solona Screen Protector Page at > www.solona.net. > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 18:11:05 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:11:05 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home In-Reply-To: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> References: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> Message-ID: I've never labeled freezer food and fridge food I go by smell and taste alone which is pretty interesting sometimes. I can't believe it's not better is gross on a taco salad for instance. As to the center I learned a bit at the bureau services for the blind but they shrugged me off with out worning and i had to buy my own stuff and they would not reimburse me at all when I had to buy the mail eggs and stuff I used to cook with. They sort of taught me how to label but they were not that helpful in that regard and it did not help that the services here don't like the nfb or the nfb canes much. Take care. S On May 2, 2010, at 4:06 PM, wrote: > Hi all, > > Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got that class three times a week. > > I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm sure some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing parent or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or dinner or maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned that way. > > I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be involved and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or "Parents: a blind child's first mobility teacher". > I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got involved with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more around here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was as a teen. They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the laundry machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do laundry, labeling, and how to clean some areas. > > So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they can't teach you everything. > > Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works for dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the refrigerator and freezer food. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 19:24:33 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 15:24:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: <8FCF0273-8CFE-4C12-A666-41CA98DC8A74@gmail.com> References: <00d201caea49$adf92920$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <61D6AE659CF943168E8B8B02C272E4E3@Hope> <8FCF0273-8CFE-4C12-A666-41CA98DC8A74@gmail.com> Message-ID: I use my cane for support sometimes, but I learned today that my cane is badly bent at the bottom because of this...my doctor asked me why my cane was bent, and I told him "Umm...because if I lose my balance and don't have my support cane, I lean on my long cane." I was so embarrassed to admit that I do that, because I know I'm not supposed to, and for exactly that reason. This cane is only 3 months old, and I've already bent it up! Well, I've told myself I'm going to stop doing that, that I'm going to use my support cane...now if I could just get that folding support cane so it'd not be so cumbersome! On 5/3/10, Sarah Alawami wrote: > I move faster with my cane then with my dog strangely enough. My cane > sometimes give me support if my leg should decide to have a bad day. Gatsby > still thinks mommy is hurt, or maybe she knows something I don't. Lol. dogs > are smart things. > > Take care. > > S > On May 3, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Hope Paulos wrote: > >> Hi there. It's perfectly fine, in my opinion, to use your cane when going >> sighted guide. As far as the second question, I've never experienced >> this. I dislike using the cane, because I don't move as fast with a cane >> than I do with my guide dog. More people also talk to me when I'm with my >> dog than they do when I'm using a cane. If you have any questions about >> any of this, please feel free to email me off-list at >> hope.paulos at maine.edu >> >> Thanks! >> Hope and Beignet >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness >> >> >>> I use the cane when I'm gign sighted guide that way I can keep myself >>> safe. I have no comments on the second questin though as I have not had >>> those experiences though. >>> >>> Tc >>> >>> S >>> On May 2, 2010, at 3:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>> has >>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >>>> us >>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>> to >>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>> mind >>>> to let us know. >>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>> it >>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>> email: Is >>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>> know >>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>> while >>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when >>>> I >>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>> held >>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>> out >>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>> conflict >>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>> and >>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>> blind >>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >>>> me >>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>> people >>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>> know in >>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>> advanced >>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >>>> be >>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>> might >>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>> brought >>>> on recently. >>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon May 3 19:52:21 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 14:52:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For whatever it is worth, I will use my cane but also take the arm of another totally blind person, or have him or her take my arm depending upon preference. In that case, the point isn't for anyone to necessarily lead or follow. Rather, I find it easier to carry on a conversation if we are following the same path. If I take a sighted persons arm, I also always use my cane so they are not having to worry about steps and curbs on my behalf. Since I don't depend upon them for that information, I also tend to walk next to them rather than slightly behind them, which also makes conversation easier. I really don't know why it is advocated that one either go sighted guide completely or use a cane. I find the two to complement each other well. I also have observed that I do not learn a new route as well if I am hanging on to someone's arm even if I use my cane. It is an interesting thing, but walking completely alone apparently heightens my awareness even beyond what I might expect. Particularly when I am trying to learn where something is, I will ask for directions or follow, without hanging on although I'll usually explain that it makes it easier for me to learn. On Mon, 3 May 2010 13:42:26 -0400, Jewel S. wrote: >Hi, >I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). >I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. >Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >need it, but I put my trust in him. >~Jewel >On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >> started learning how to use the cane. >> >> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the time I >> was about five. >> >> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll take >> it from you." >> >> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >> >> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >> since. >> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> >>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>> has >>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >>> us >>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine to >>> >>> use it can serve two purposes: >>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the mind >>> >>> to let us know. >>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make it >>> >>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same email: >>> Is >>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>> know >>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>> while >>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when I >>> >>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I held >>> >>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them out >>> >>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>> conflict >>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>> and >>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the blind >>> >>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >>> me >>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted people >>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I know >>> in >>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>> advanced >>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >>> be >>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one might >>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots brought >>> >>> on recently. >>> Gerardo >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 3 20:35:13 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 15:35:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <20100503172140.2189.28982@web3> References: <20100503172140.2189.28982@web3> Message-ID: Well articulated as always, Jedi. On May 3, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Jedi wrote: > Joe, > > I first want to start by telling you that I agree with some of your observations. > > First, young blind people not in the Federation tend not to see its benefits because there doesn't seem much worth fighting for and the NFB seems not to value individual preferences. Many of the young non-NFB folks I speak to tell me that they don't want to join because the NFB doesn't seem to honor the fact that they prefer to use their remaining vision or get more assistance than what most NFB-ers are comfortable with. These young people also notice how easy it is to get what they ask for in most situations. They're views on that tend to change when they meet an obstacle they can't overcome alone. And yes, state-wide events seem not to draw people in unless one lives in an affiliate that caters to the young as well as those of middle age and older. > > I think you're right that we find ourselves in a bit of a bind so far as leadership is concerned. I don't think this is necessarily true nationally, but I definitely see it more on the state level. I know that Dr. Maurer has also observed this issue you're talking about in terms of older people not ready to give up the reigns and younger people not yet able to take them. I remember hearing him talk somewhat about this issue at a youth leadership seminar I attended back in 2006. I also think that Dr. Maurer and National are trying to address this issue in the states by some of the events you're talking about such as Youth slam. But first, I want to address your observations about fundraising. > > You're right that there has become quite an emphasis on fundraising in past years. It's not that that emphasis hasn't been there. It's just that our fundraising techniques have changed and we require more money to continue moving forward with our new programming. Back in the day, our fundraising efforts included telephone solicitations, mailing campeigns, greeting card sales, private wills, bequests, etc. These things still go on, but I think we've really begun to understand how helpful each individual member of our movement can be in getting funds, especially with technologies like conveyo. The Race for Independence/The March for Independence is a publicity campaign meant to bring our efforts into the public mind and give a target for individual community contributors to think about. For one thing, it's much easier for a non-NFB person to give money if they feel there's some kind of immediate cause and the March for Independence/Race for Independence provides a spotlight and an immediate cause. More than that, it gives us all a great excuse to freak out the local townspeople wherever we happen to convene. *Grin* > > about the places where our money goes. You're right that STEM programs like Youth Slam are very focused and may not represent the career goals of many students. However, these events include more than just science: there are philosophy discussions, technology seminars, recreational events, one-on-one mentoring opportunities, an opportunity to practice independent movement, and opportunity for people my age to practice mentoring and leadership skills, an opportunity to gain public attention and support, and opportunity to network with other foundations and agencies, and a way of giving young people contact with our movement in a seeminly less threatening environment. My affiliate has gained at least three participants since Youth Slam came around, and other kids are asking questions about Youth Slam. The science stuff is really just the surface of what we're really doing. If you haven't served at a Youth slam, you may want to and you'll know what I mean. And really, it takes a lot of money to put one of these on and support the staff and facilities for those who participate. The Jernigan Institute is definitely worth our money. > > I also want to talk some about our leadership bind that I mentioned. I think Youth Slam is one way to draw in and retain youth. The Imagination grants are another way since they can be used for local seminars. My affiliate just used a grant to put on a seminar for blind youth, their parents, and the teachers and professionals who serve them. The seminar was a great success and I think we've gotten some new leadership out of it. The Affiliate Action crew has spent an aweful lot of time and resources to bring many of us to Baltimore to train us in ways that our affiliate leadership may not. for one thing, I've been to many training seminars put on by Affiliate Action where I learned about growing affiliates , teaching the philosophy, learning how to work with older leadership, etc. So I feel that when I do find myself in a leadership position, i'll be more than ready. > > There is one thing I'd like to address spinning off your topic a bit. I think you're right that that there are a lot of affiliates and chapters where participation and energy are hard to come by. I experience that quite a lot and it drains my energy and enthusiasm as a local leader. I find it difficult to get excited about a project if I'm practically the only one doing it. I guess this takes me back to Briley and her initial statements. It's much easier and more meaningful to get involved in a colllective effort when one knows about its history. I know that my involvement has strengthened especially since I've learned the hard core parts of our history. If nothing else, I feel responsible for carrying out plans set forth by people who have suffered quite a lot on my behalf. > > About the car. That one's kind of tricky. I know what you mean in that the car won't necessarily get us jobs in and of itself. I also hear corbb about blind people getting on the road. I think Corbb's right that we'll find some way to make sure blind drivers are as safe as our sighted counterparts. I know there are a few reasons why we're working with Virginia Tech to build this car. It's more than just blind people doing the same as the sighted do. First of all, having a car will open up a few more opportunities, especially to those who do not live in an area with good transit and who don't have a lot of money to aford cabs on a regular basis. Yes, the car itself would represent a considerable investment, but it's hard to tell just yet how much greater that investment would be compared to regular taxi service.In any case, the car's technology will prove that a seemingly visual environment can be adapted for non-visual use; technology manufacturers will then have no more excuses not to build products with everyone in mind. Finally, the general public can't imagine blind people walking around. Imagine how much they're thinking will have to be re-examined when blind people start driving! After all, the car has raised some interesting discussion among blind people. > > I hope I'm making some sense. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic crisis. >> And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between >> 2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots >> advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense >> ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see >> outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership will >> need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually supposed >> to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money and >> living for your purpose. > >> My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state of >> the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on >> the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of affiliate >> activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can >> teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel >> those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There is >> persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual >> fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for these >> so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for >> this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can bring >> the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate at >> which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at the >> local level. > >> Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item has >> been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will not >> make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and >> immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind can >> drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those cars. >> Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford >> them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the >> technology that will navigate them. > >> I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of >> responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager >> group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think the >> bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to satisfy >> Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a new >> generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the >> benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the >> annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation is >> too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared >> enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the benefits >> of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers in >> math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, >> want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a loyal >> finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. > >> Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the NFB. >> It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. >> Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned >> from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly transformed >> itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil >> rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and >> business practice. > >> Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young people >> that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? > >> Sincerely, > >> Joe > >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ > >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >> http://www.eset.com > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 20:53:36 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:53:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: References: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That sure is short notice! Do what you do for your professors during the regular semesters while at Berkeley...talk to them prior to the first class, discuss any accommodations you might need, and work out any kinks. Make sure they know what you need, and be ready to remind them (like "Professor, could you tell me what you just put on the overhead?"). Congratulations on getting there, and enjoy your time. Don't stress out too much! Take a look at roommates.com, apartmentfinder.com, and craigslist.org for apartments and roommate situations. Hopefully you can find something! ~Jewel On 5/3/10, Sarah Alawami wrote: > Well, I found out I start May 18. The website said jul 1 and the scholarship > committee will decide if I get the thing this week. I think this is unfair. > I think they should have given me more time to prepare. I am not packed and > nothing is bought. I thought I'd have tome to find a place to stay during > the summer but I guess not. I don't want to put myself in an unsafe > situation. > > All of this is making me stress so what do I do now besides breathe? Lol. > On May 2, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Rob wrote: > >> Congrats on the admission. I will miss seeing you around campus. >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On May 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> >> Hello to all. >> >> I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to >> live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who >> attend there. >> >> Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? >> >> Take care. >> >> a nervous >> >> Sarah >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 20:57:16 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:57:16 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <20100503172140.2189.28982@web3> Message-ID: But isn't it true that if we don't study history it's doomed to repeat? At least, that's what I learned in school. I think if we appreciate where we came from, we can better look forward to what we might do. I also find myself doing fundraisers more than I'd like...I don't *mind* fundraising, but I'd rather be educating, advocating, and assisting others. I'd rather get a group together to do a project than raise the funds to hire someone to do it. ~Jewel On 5/3/10, Briley Pollard wrote: > Well articulated as always, Jedi. > On May 3, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Jedi wrote: > >> Joe, >> >> I first want to start by telling you that I agree with some of your >> observations. >> >> First, young blind people not in the Federation tend not to see its >> benefits because there doesn't seem much worth fighting for and the NFB >> seems not to value individual preferences. Many of the young non-NFB folks >> I speak to tell me that they don't want to join because the NFB doesn't >> seem to honor the fact that they prefer to use their remaining vision or >> get more assistance than what most NFB-ers are comfortable with. These >> young people also notice how easy it is to get what they ask for in most >> situations. They're views on that tend to change when they meet an >> obstacle they can't overcome alone. And yes, state-wide events seem not to >> draw people in unless one lives in an affiliate that caters to the young >> as well as those of middle age and older. >> >> I think you're right that we find ourselves in a bit of a bind so far as >> leadership is concerned. I don't think this is necessarily true >> nationally, but I definitely see it more on the state level. I know that >> Dr. Maurer has also observed this issue you're talking about in terms of >> older people not ready to give up the reigns and younger people not yet >> able to take them. I remember hearing him talk somewhat about this issue >> at a youth leadership seminar I attended back in 2006. I also think that >> Dr. Maurer and National are trying to address this issue in the states by >> some of the events you're talking about such as Youth slam. But first, I >> want to address your observations about fundraising. >> >> You're right that there has become quite an emphasis on fundraising in >> past years. It's not that that emphasis hasn't been there. It's just that >> our fundraising techniques have changed and we require more money to >> continue moving forward with our new programming. Back in the day, our >> fundraising efforts included telephone solicitations, mailing campeigns, >> greeting card sales, private wills, bequests, etc. These things still go >> on, but I think we've really begun to understand how helpful each >> individual member of our movement can be in getting funds, especially with >> technologies like conveyo. The Race for Independence/The March for >> Independence is a publicity campaign meant to bring our efforts into the >> public mind and give a target for individual community contributors to >> think about. For one thing, it's much easier for a non-NFB person to give >> money if they feel there's some kind of immediate cause and the March for >> Independence/Race for Independence provides a spotlight and an immediate >> cause. More than that, it gives us all a great excuse to freak out the >> local townspeople wherever we happen to convene. *Grin* >> >> about the places where our money goes. You're right that STEM programs >> like Youth Slam are very focused and may not represent the career goals of >> many students. However, these events include more than just science: there >> are philosophy discussions, technology seminars, recreational events, >> one-on-one mentoring opportunities, an opportunity to practice independent >> movement, and opportunity for people my age to practice mentoring and >> leadership skills, an opportunity to gain public attention and support, >> and opportunity to network with other foundations and agencies, and a way >> of giving young people contact with our movement in a seeminly less >> threatening environment. My affiliate has gained at least three >> participants since Youth Slam came around, and other kids are asking >> questions about Youth Slam. The science stuff is really just the surface >> of what we're really doing. If you haven't served at a Youth slam, you may >> want to and you'll know what I mean. And really, it takes a lot of money >> to put one of these on and support the staff and facilities for those who >> participate. The Jernigan Institute is definitely worth our money. >> >> I also want to talk some about our leadership bind that I mentioned. I >> think Youth Slam is one way to draw in and retain youth. The Imagination >> grants are another way since they can be used for local seminars. My >> affiliate just used a grant to put on a seminar for blind youth, their >> parents, and the teachers and professionals who serve them. The seminar >> was a great success and I think we've gotten some new leadership out of >> it. The Affiliate Action crew has spent an aweful lot of time and >> resources to bring many of us to Baltimore to train us in ways that our >> affiliate leadership may not. for one thing, I've been to many training >> seminars put on by Affiliate Action where I learned about growing >> affiliates , teaching the philosophy, learning how to work with older >> leadership, etc. So I feel that when I do find myself in a leadership >> position, i'll be more than ready. >> >> There is one thing I'd like to address spinning off your topic a bit. I >> think you're right that that there are a lot of affiliates and chapters >> where participation and energy are hard to come by. I experience that >> quite a lot and it drains my energy and enthusiasm as a local leader. I >> find it difficult to get excited about a project if I'm practically the >> only one doing it. I guess this takes me back to Briley and her initial >> statements. It's much easier and more meaningful to get involved in a >> colllective effort when one knows about its history. I know that my >> involvement has strengthened especially since I've learned the hard core >> parts of our history. If nothing else, I feel responsible for carrying out >> plans set forth by people who have suffered quite a lot on my behalf. >> >> About the car. That one's kind of tricky. I know what you mean in that the >> car won't necessarily get us jobs in and of itself. I also hear corbb >> about blind people getting on the road. I think Corbb's right that we'll >> find some way to make sure blind drivers are as safe as our sighted >> counterparts. I know there are a few reasons why we're working with >> Virginia Tech to build this car. It's more than just blind people doing >> the same as the sighted do. First of all, having a car will open up a few >> more opportunities, especially to those who do not live in an area with >> good transit and who don't have a lot of money to aford cabs on a regular >> basis. Yes, the car itself would represent a considerable investment, but >> it's hard to tell just yet how much greater that investment would be >> compared to regular taxi service.In any case, the car's technology will >> prove that a seemingly visual environment can be adapted for non-visual >> use; technology manufacturers will then have no more excuses not to build >> products with everyone in mind. Finally, the general public can't imagine >> blind people walking around. Imagine how much they're thinking will have >> to be re-examined when blind people start driving! After all, the car has >> raised some interesting discussion among blind people. >> >> I hope I'm making some sense. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> >> Original message: >>> The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic >>> crisis. >>> And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between >>> 2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots >>> advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense >>> ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see >>> outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership >>> will >>> need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually >>> supposed >>> to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money >>> and >>> living for your purpose. >> >>> My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state >>> of >>> the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on >>> the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of >>> affiliate >>> activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can >>> teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel >>> those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There >>> is >>> persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual >>> fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for >>> these >>> so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for >>> this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can >>> bring >>> the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate >>> at >>> which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at >>> the >>> local level. >> >>> Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item >>> has >>> been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will >>> not >>> make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and >>> immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind >>> can >>> drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those >>> cars. >>> Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford >>> them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the >>> technology that will navigate them. >> >>> I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of >>> responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager >>> group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think >>> the >>> bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to >>> satisfy >>> Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a >>> new >>> generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the >>> benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the >>> annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation >>> is >>> too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared >>> enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the >>> benefits >>> of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers >>> in >>> math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, >>> want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a >>> loyal >>> finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. >> >>> Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the >>> NFB. >>> It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. >>> Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned >>> from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly >>> transformed >>> itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil >>> rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and >>> business practice. >> >>> Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young >>> people >>> that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? >> >>> Sincerely, >> >>> Joe >> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >>> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Mon May 3 20:58:37 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:58:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] canes and increasing sensation of blindness In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sometimes tough love is the besst kind...~Jewel On 5/3/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: > For whatever it is worth, I will use my cane but also take the arm of > another totally blind person, or have him or her take my arm depending upon > preference. In that > case, the point isn't for anyone to necessarily lead or follow. Rather, I > find it easier to carry on a conversation if we are following the same path. > If I take a sighted > persons arm, I also always use my cane so they are not having to worry about > steps and curbs on my behalf. Since I don't depend upon them for that > information, I > also tend to walk next to them rather than slightly behind them, which also > makes conversation easier. I really don't know why it is advocated that one > either go > sighted guide completely or use a cane. I find the two to complement each > other well. > > I also have observed that I do not learn a new route as well if I am hanging > on to someone's arm even if I use my cane. It is an interesting thing, but > walking > completely alone apparently heightens my awareness even beyond what I might > expect. Particularly when I am trying to learn where something is, I will > ask for > directions or follow, without hanging on although I'll usually explain that > it makes it easier for me to learn. > > On Mon, 3 May 2010 13:42:26 -0400, Jewel S. wrote: > >>Hi, > >>I use my cane while holding someone's arm all the time. However, I do >>not consider it "sighted guide" so much as keeping with my friend who >>knows the way...especially since the person who usually does this with >>me is my legally blind boyfriend. I hold his arm for balance >>primarily, and to keep track of where he is, as I have no peripheral >>vision. As we walk, he might point things out to me that I would miss >>with my cane no matter what (the mailboxes that stick out at >>head-height, the wet branches in front of my face, etcetra). I use my >>cane so he can concentrate on where we are going and things in front >>of us. I find the curbs and steps on my own, and sometimes if the >>light is too low, I find curbs and such for the both of us, as he is >>not as good with the cane (lack of practice!). > >>I find that if I take someone's arm, I am far less likely to learn the >>route. I have done entire routes on someone's arm that, looking back, >>I couldn't tell you the first thing. This is partly because of my poor >>memory, but also because when I hold someone's arm, unless I'm in >>charge of navigation (which does occur sometimes), I let that work go, >>and concentrate more on balance, what my cane is finding, and sounds. >>I can enjoy myself a bit better this way. > >>Personally, I think holding someone's arm and using a cane at the same >>time is perfectly fine. That's just my opinion, so feel free to shoot >>me down, but that won't stop me from doing it myself! I don't like to >>put all the responsibility on the other person, no matter how good a >>guide they are...though there is one exception. My O&M instructor >>would do sighted guide with me to get quickly to a location, and my >>cane just got in his way, and he was very good at guiding (he better >>be, since he teaches other people how to be sighted guides, too!), so >>I allow my cane to remain at my side, ready to pull out if I should >>need it, but I put my trust in him. > >>~Jewel > >>On 5/3/10, clinton waterbury wrote: >>> As far as the cane issue goes, when I was about three years of age, I >>> started learning how to use the cane. >>> >>> The only problem was that I would flat out refuse to use it until the >>> time I >>> was about five. >>> >>> The travel instructor finally said "Ok, you don't want to use it? I'll >>> take >>> it from you." >>> >>> At that point, I tried and faled miserably to walk around without it! >>> >>> At the day's end, I did get the cane back, and have been using it ever >>> since. >>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >>> >>>> Hi guys: I'm curious as to is it fine to use a cane while going sighted >>>> guide with someone? for instance suppose the person whom I'm going with >>>> has >>>> never done sighted guide with a blind person, thus doesn't know to alert >>>> us >>>> of steps and the like. So I was thinking that if this technique is fine >>>> to >>>> >>>> use it can serve two purposes: >>>> 1.-Be able to go along sighted guide but at the same time being able to >>>> oneself find and sort obstacles the sighted person might not have the >>>> mind >>>> >>>> to let us know. >>>> 2.-Be able to start mapping in our minds the route following, thus make >>>> it >>>> >>>> easier to get to know the route by ourselves. >>>> Also I've got another subject on my mind, thus sending in the same >>>> email: >>>> Is >>>> it normal that when using a cane I have conflict in using it? though I >>>> know >>>> the cane is how we get around by ourselves thanks to a bad experience >>>> while >>>> studying for a diploma in Humanistic Therapy some years ago in that when >>>> I >>>> >>>> wanted to use the cane again after some years of having it dusting, I >>>> held >>>> >>>> it in my hand but wasn't able to use it at ease because memories of the >>>> experience came flooding back. fortunately I've been able to work them >>>> out >>>> >>>> but am curious as to know if this has happened to you guys? It's a >>>> conflict >>>> because for one I'm aware that the cane makes us unique as blind people >>>> and >>>> lets us move around by ourselves but also because here in Mexico the >>>> blind >>>> >>>> aren't viewed as equals in some respects, thus when using the cane gives >>>> me >>>> the feeling that lets blindness show even more, making the sighted >>>> people >>>> feel ill at ease; speaking from experience in another country when I >>>> know >>>> in >>>> the US you guys don't have to cope with these things because of how >>>> advanced >>>> you guys are in the work you've done all these years. some day I hope to >>>> be >>>> able to be like you guys and really live by your standards, thus hoping >>>> these questions bring on a good discussion from which more than one >>>> might >>>> learn something new and enrich the topic of appreciating our roots >>>> brought >>>> >>>> on recently. >>>> Gerardo >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon May 3 21:30:19 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 17:30:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots Message-ID: <65FFE6C1-A788-4150-A9A0-B6E3F4C33A3F@mac.com> Joe: You make perfectly good points. I was fortunate enough to attend the NF ADVOCACY AND LEADERSHIP PROGRAM In Washington DC earlier last month, and I saw the progress that we're heading for. However, I was in the HQ, so of course there were things going on. But I do get many complaints from blind people I know similar to yours regarding local-level programs. One person asked me "So what's the Progress? Whats the quote on quote changing what it menas to be blind all about lately? We got to a point where we're good and now what?" I do not share your philosophy that we will some how fade away, but I know blind citizens do doubt our usefulness in today's rapid world. I think part of it is the instant-news-channel, but I think its partly a fault of the affiliates not concentrating on giving out their message. My affiliate for example, is filled with great people who do their best, however, they don't reach out, and that's a problem. Our problem isn't projects, its outreach. I saw the Governmental Affairs and Education team do great jobs at the conference, and I have no problem with giving a dollar here and there--money does matter, but if we don't reach out to the youth and inform them of what we're doing, we'll start to lose support amongst the young generation. NABS is good, but who knew about it? I myself proposed to create a youth division of the NFB cause I never knew about the NABS until this year when I got in contact with Marry Jo, the director of education to propose my idea when she told me that there was such a thing already. Its not that we don't exist, its that we need to reach out and bring more people into our camp--to believe what we believe and to understand what we do and who we are--and that depends on history, and on right-now-project information. Do that, reach out and trust me the new generation will be up and ready to start their role in no time. Jorge From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon May 3 21:33:08 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 17:33:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <52896C60-0202-4894-BFCF-31A66778E71F@gmail.com> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com><0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn><16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> <52896C60-0202-4894-BFCF-31A66778E71F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56A0A610D1594FDC8F97B23BD1BE6619@Rufus> Corbb, Prior to the building expansion there was a third level where renovations could have been made to accommodate large-scale events. The Baltimore chapter was more than sufficiently accommodated in the 4th floor conference room, and if the scholarship committee was easily managed with the resources the Center had prior to the expansion, I imagine any other multidimensional activity could have been just as easily housed. I'm not saying we were wrong to expand the building, but I wonder how much of it was based on need and how much of it came out of a want. Fancy foyers and glass elevators do nothing to advance our mission except to say that we have a swanky house to live in. Yes, it is our building, but as you can now see, it is also our debt. An expansion that ran an excess of twenty million dollars, to me, translates to a lot of programs that could have more effectively reached the masses. I wonder what percentage of those funds could have been used to preserve the Jobline service? More importantly, you site special events as the sole reason for reaping benefits from the expansion. What about the other 300 plus days of the year where the building ought to be used for practical activities? Even the NASA program is housed on a university campus, so by your logic we have actually failed to meet the expectation for the expansion uses. Jedi, I think you have a good sense of where I'm coming from. Enticing young people is difficult, because while you do not want to water down the philosophy for the sake of drawing in new people, you do not want to run the risk of alienating the new generation. To keep the thread in line with the original post, I think history taught us a lot about the unity that could be derived from rallying around specific civil rights issues. Today, we pursue equality in the technology arena, but first, you alienate the older generation who cares very little for technology; and second, we will never fully catch up with the leaps and bounds of technical evolution. Open source is great, but because this is mostly volunteer-driven, how do you enforce standards that fully accommodate accessibility? I am very glad to see the technology bill of rights offered as part of this year's legislative agenda. My only fear is that in time this legislation would be about as effective as the web accessibility standards that did not account for CAPTCHA and other features of the Web 2.0 era. It's all about balance, and even if we devote resources to crafting an equal playing field in technology, there is still the issue of procuring jobs that make this technology advocacy worth our efforts. I do not envy the job of our NFB president. I have mostly found Dr. Maurer to be receptive to most ideas that are brought to his attention. I think the difficulty of his job is outlined in the way we want to stay on top of the technological evolution that runs today's world versus the fundamental reasons that necessitated the NFB in the first place. He is open-minded, yet I fear sometimes he may be a bit too open-minded. A little smack down seems to be in order at times, and from my vantage point it would appear as though he is trying too hard to satisfy too many people simultaneously. Too many cooks in the kitchen at the National Center perhaps? Or, maybe I'm completely off my rocker. Maybe my theories will be proven wrong. Maybe I need to try to get into one of them there leadership seminars to remind me of what it was that made me passionate about the NFB at one point, assuming an invitation to the National Center is even attainable after my tangents. *grin* What I do know for certain is that somewhere along the way I burned out on the NFB, and this alone would not be worth your concern as a future leader, except, I'm not the only one. The difference between today and many years ago is that many years ago people felt a good kind of exhaustion. You can tell from the literature that it was really a movement. Today the NFB has transformed itself into a service provider, and it's difficult to work up extra reserves of energy for something that is not so much a movement as it is a well-oiled marketing machine that caters too much to publicity and not enough to character development. The new breed of independence is good for print and television. It's not good enough for daily life where it matters most. To me, this is most troubling. Yet I appreciate the open debate. I do not know that this thread has a real right or wrong answer, because ironically, only time will tell how successful the current strategies will turn out. I do hope though that the people that plan to build a career of working for the NFB will take note of the points raised here on both sides and build an organization that intrigues everyone regardless of generation. And, regardless of organization affiliation, because I think today's generation is far more willing to cooperate across the aisle than our proverbial parents. This too will no doubt have an impact on how history evolves. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5083 (20100503) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 3 23:13:35 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 16:13:35 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: References: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks. I'll takea look. yeah it is short notice. Let's hope I get the scholarship. On May 3, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > That sure is short notice! Do what you do for your professors during > the regular semesters while at Berkeley...talk to them prior to the > first class, discuss any accommodations you might need, and work out > any kinks. Make sure they know what you need, and be ready to remind > them (like "Professor, could you tell me what you just put on the > overhead?"). Congratulations on getting there, and enjoy your time. > Don't stress out too much! > > Take a look at roommates.com, apartmentfinder.com, and craigslist.org > for apartments and roommate situations. Hopefully you can find > something! > > ~Jewel > > On 5/3/10, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> Well, I found out I start May 18. The website said jul 1 and the scholarship >> committee will decide if I get the thing this week. I think this is unfair. >> I think they should have given me more time to prepare. I am not packed and >> nothing is bought. I thought I'd have tome to find a place to stay during >> the summer but I guess not. I don't want to put myself in an unsafe >> situation. >> >> All of this is making me stress so what do I do now besides breathe? Lol. >> On May 2, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Rob wrote: >> >>> Congrats on the admission. I will miss seeing you around campus. >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On May 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>> Hello to all. >>> >>> I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to >>> live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who >>> attend there. >>> >>> Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? >>> >>> Take care. >>> >>> a nervous >>> >>> Sarah >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon May 3 23:26:19 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 19:26:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] knfb classic Message-ID: <56311DAF-5BF1-40C9-AE86-B1F689227DF8@mac.com> Just wondering, does anyone know where I would be able to find the old KNFB Reader classic? Thanks. Jorge From dandrews at visi.com Mon May 3 23:58:06 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 18:58:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe: While I have concerns about fund-raising, I will also point out that the NFB now has an Affiliate Services Department, something we didn't formally have for our first 60 plus years. Dave At 09:01 AM 5/3/2010, you wrote: >The trend toward intense fundraising began well before the economic crisis. >And, I don't blame a nonprofit for engaging in fundraising. Yet between >2001 and 2007, to me, there is almost a dramatic shift from grassroots >advocacy to a consumer provider. Perhaps this was owed to the immense >ticket price of the building expansion, whose benefits I still do not see >outweighing the costs. It is just one more item the future leadership will >need to administer with little direction as to what it is actually supposed >to accomplish. There is a very fine line between living for the money and >living for your purpose. > >My belief that the organization will fade is based on the general state of >the affiliates. We cannot assume the organization is doing well based on >the Braille Monitor and yearly banquet addresses. The decline of affiliate >activity has also been observed well before the economic crisis. You can >teach a chapter how to organize itself, but if there are no funds to fuel >those strategies, where exactly is that chapter expected to turn? There is >persistent pressure to raise money for what has now become an annual >fundraising drive at the national convention. I do not much care for these >so-called friendly competitions among states to get the most pledges for >this Race for Independence. How about a race for the states who can bring >the most people, to, convention? The economy has only increased the rate at >which affiliates are not capable of proper recruitment and education at the >local level. > >Fighting for an increase in social security caps? That legislative item has >been around for years. Social security is a third rail issue that will not >make progress in a climate where health care reform, financial reform and >immigration reform already dominate the headlines. Cars that the blind can >drive? How about giving blind people a destination to go with those cars. >Without jobs, blind people won't be able to move them, let alone afford >them, or do we honestly feel we will see a reasonable rate for the >technology that will navigate them. > >I don't know that I agree young people are not willing to assume roles of >responsibility. I think last summer's election is indicative of an eager >group that is willing to do what they can to help their peers. I think the >bigger issue is attempting to carve out success while attempting to satisfy >Baltimore, often work with uncooperative state affiliates and energize a new >generation of young people who quite frankly do not necessarily see the >benefits of coming around the NFB unless it is for the festivities of the >annual convention. There are always exceptions, but the older generation is >too reluctant to let go of the reins, and young people are not prepared >enough to take them over even if they had access. I appreciate the benefits >of the STEM program the NFB has locked on to help youth explore careers in >math and science, but here's a reminder, not all youth, blind or sighted, >want to go to work for NASA. To me, this too is another reminder of a loyal >finance base the NFB has worked up into a so-called innovative program. > >Don't get me wrong. Believe it or not, I have immense respect for the NFB. >It never fails to inspire me to aim higher when I come around NFB events. >Yet I fear that over the past several years my respect has mostly turned >from inspiration to admiration of the way it has so seamlessly transformed >itself without blatantly calling attention to itself. This isn't civil >rights anymore. This is a shrewd combination of public relations and >business practice. > >Knowledge of the past is immensely important. But, is it the young people >that need to be reminded most, or the older generation? > >Sincerely, > >Joe From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Tue May 4 00:54:45 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 20:54:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home References: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> Message-ID: <71253D43DD41460DAA62C2DD1C8CDD25@Ashley> Hi Sara, For fridge food I also go by smell and I can feel the difference in containers sometimes; the orange juice carton feels different than the milk one. I also use my vision. I don't think I'd label fridge food. But freezer food feels similar and you can't smell it. So I would need a labeling method for freezer items. For the center, where was this? Was the Bureau services a residential facility you stayed at? Take care. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills at home > I've never labeled freezer food and fridge food I go by smell and taste > alone which is pretty interesting sometimes. I can't believe it's not > better is gross on a taco salad for instance. > > As to the center I learned a bit at the bureau services for the blind but > they shrugged me off with out worning and i had to buy my own stuff and > they would not reimburse me at all when I had to buy the mail eggs and > stuff I used to cook with. > > They sort of taught me how to label but they were not that helpful in that > regard and it did not help that the services here don't like the nfb or > the nfb canes much. > > Take care. > > S > On May 2, 2010, at 4:06 PM, > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our >> state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind >> instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got >> that class three times a week. >> >> I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm >> sure some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing >> parent or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or >> dinner or maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned >> that way. >> >> I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be >> involved and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or >> "Parents: a blind child's first mobility teacher". >> I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got >> involved with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more >> around here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was >> as a teen. They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the >> laundry machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do >> laundry, labeling, and how to clean some areas. >> >> So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This >> was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab >> teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of >> your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they >> can't teach you everything. >> >> Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works >> for dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the >> refrigerator and freezer food. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 4 01:28:49 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 20:28:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <56A0A610D1594FDC8F97B23BD1BE6619@Rufus> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn> <16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus> <52896C60-0202-4894-BFCF-31A66778E71F@gmail.com> <56A0A610D1594FDC8F97B23BD1BE6619@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe, when I worked for the NFB, 91-95, there were approximately 40 employees, maybe 45. There are now well over 100. There are also many more programs now. I don't think third floor expansion would have held everything. And ... when it comes to fund raising, you are comparing apples and oranges. You are making the assumption that the money we raised and put into a building would also have been available for program services. In addition to my careers in management, assistive technology, reading services, daisy books, AT software sales and marketing, and news writing, I was also a fund raiser -- and it doesn't work that way. Raising capital campaign money is different from program money. There were times when I doubted the wisdom of some of the expansions Dr. Jernigan started -- but he almost always turned out to be right! Dave At 04:33 PM 5/3/2010, you wrote: >Corbb, > >Prior to the building expansion there was a third level where renovations >could have been made to accommodate large-scale events. The Baltimore >chapter was more than sufficiently accommodated in the 4th floor conference >room, and if the scholarship committee was easily managed with the resources >the Center had prior to the expansion, I imagine any other multidimensional >activity could have been just as easily housed. I'm not saying we were >wrong to expand the building, but I wonder how much of it was based on need >and how much of it came out of a want. Fancy foyers and glass elevators do >nothing to advance our mission except to say that we have a swanky house to >live in. Yes, it is our building, but as you can now see, it is also our >debt. An expansion that ran an excess of twenty million dollars, to me, >translates to a lot of programs that could have more effectively reached the >masses. I wonder what percentage of those funds could have been used to >preserve the Jobline service? More importantly, you site special events as >the sole reason for reaping benefits from the expansion. What about the >other 300 plus days of the year where the building ought to be used for >practical activities? Even the NASA program is housed on a university >campus, so by your logic we have actually failed to meet the expectation for >the expansion uses. > >Jedi, > >I think you have a good sense of where I'm coming from. Enticing young >people is difficult, because while you do not want to water down the >philosophy for the sake of drawing in new people, you do not want to run the >risk of alienating the new generation. To keep the thread in line with the >original post, I think history taught us a lot about the unity that could be >derived from rallying around specific civil rights issues. Today, we pursue >equality in the technology arena, but first, you alienate the older >generation who cares very little for technology; and second, we will never >fully catch up with the leaps and bounds of technical evolution. Open >source is great, but because this is mostly volunteer-driven, how do you >enforce standards that fully accommodate accessibility? I am very glad to >see the technology bill of rights offered as part of this year's legislative >agenda. My only fear is that in time this legislation would be about as >effective as the web accessibility standards that did not account for >CAPTCHA and other features of the Web 2.0 era. It's all about balance, and >even if we devote resources to crafting an equal playing field in >technology, there is still the issue of procuring jobs that make this >technology advocacy worth our efforts. > >I do not envy the job of our NFB president. I have mostly found Dr. Maurer >to be receptive to most ideas that are brought to his attention. I think >the difficulty of his job is outlined in the way we want to stay on top of >the technological evolution that runs today's world versus the fundamental >reasons that necessitated the NFB in the first place. He is open-minded, >yet I fear sometimes he may be a bit too open-minded. A little smack down >seems to be in order at times, and from my vantage point it would appear as >though he is trying too hard to satisfy too many people simultaneously. Too >many cooks in the kitchen at the National Center perhaps? > >Or, maybe I'm completely off my rocker. Maybe my theories will be proven >wrong. Maybe I need to try to get into one of them there leadership >seminars to remind me of what it was that made me passionate about the NFB >at one point, assuming an invitation to the National Center is even >attainable after my tangents. *grin* What I do know for certain is that >somewhere along the way I burned out on the NFB, and this alone would not be >worth your concern as a future leader, except, I'm not the only one. The >difference between today and many years ago is that many years ago people >felt a good kind of exhaustion. You can tell from the literature that it >was really a movement. Today the NFB has transformed itself into a service >provider, and it's difficult to work up extra reserves of energy for >something that is not so much a movement as it is a well-oiled marketing >machine that caters too much to publicity and not enough to character >development. The new breed of independence is good for print and >television. It's not good enough for daily life where it matters most. > >To me, this is most troubling. Yet I appreciate the open debate. I do not >know that this thread has a real right or wrong answer, because ironically, >only time will tell how successful the current strategies will turn out. I >do hope though that the people that plan to build a career of working for >the NFB will take note of the points raised here on both sides and build an >organization that intrigues everyone regardless of generation. And, >regardless of organization affiliation, because I think today's generation >is far more willing to cooperate across the aisle than our proverbial >parents. This too will no doubt have an impact on how history evolves. > >Best, > >Joe From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 4 01:29:45 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 20:29:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] knfb classic In-Reply-To: <56311DAF-5BF1-40C9-AE86-B1F689227DF8@mac.com> References: <56311DAF-5BF1-40C9-AE86-B1F689227DF8@mac.com> Message-ID: If you post on the reader-users list, http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/reader-users_nfbnet.org I am sure there is somebody who will sell you one. Dave At 06:26 PM 5/3/2010, you wrote: >Just wondering, >does anyone know where I would be able to find the old KNFB Reader classic? From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue May 4 03:33:13 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 21:33:13 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future Message-ID: Hi all, Whenever a question arises regarding NFB philosophy, the person asking the question is often advised to read books or listen to long speeches in order to find the answer. But to me the essence of NFB philosophy is very simple and can be conveyed with the sentence, "It is respectable to be blind." A single sentence, which can be stated in a single breath. The rest, I believe, is our collective opinions about how the respectability of blind people can best be affirmed and upheld. People can and do debate about the details, the policy positions and the program priorities that the organized blind should take toward the end of respectability. But the core of our philosophy, the notion that blindness is respectable and that the blind deserve dignity, is in my opinion a truth that very few people would argue against. And I fully believe that many people who choose to affiliate with the ACB, or not to join a blindness organization at all, are still NFB-ers at heart because they are committed to the respectability of being blind and they demonstrate it through their daily actions and full participation in society. I don't believe the NFB will be gone in fifty years because this basic truth will still exist and will still need our effort to keep respectability a reality for the blind. I will say that I don't agree with all the policy decisions and priorities that the NFB has taken in recent years. If it were up to me, for instance, I would spend much less time and resources on Web accessibility lawsuits and more energy trying to improve the quality of education at state schools for the blind, or the accessibility of entry-level jobs so blind teens can work in the same kinds of part-time jobs as their sighted peers and develop a sense of self-reliance. I don't agree fully with our Social Security Earnings legislation, and I have felt disappointed by the lack of concrete plans to match our rhetoric about fixing the Braille literacy crisis. I also don't agree with some of the political norms that have become widely accepted in the Federation on the national and state levels. However, I recognize that the NFB is run by human beings and that our programs not only depend on funding, but also tend to reflect the particular whims of our leaders and their preferences, talents, strengths and weaknesses. I am aware that while I am president of NABS, our student division will probably be strong in some areas and weak in others corresponding to my particular interests. It's something we can remedy by involving a diverse group of leaders, but it can't be fully avoided. I too sometimes feel burned out, and sometimes perceive our national convention as more like a big sales outfit than like the meeting of a civil rights organization. However, I keep working in the Federation and I plan to do so forever because I recognize that there is still more work to be done to make respectability a reality for all blind people. There are still blind people of all ages and backgrounds who haven't yet realized what their potential is or how to reach it. And daily encounters with the public remind me that the truth about blindness is a surprise rather than a given for many of our sighted brethren. Furthermore, I recognize that our organization cannot possibly get better in my eyes if I don't make myself part of the solution. I believe that it is up to our newer members and particularly our younger members to identify new issues, new points of change, and to bring them to the attention of the current leadership. I often hear from national and state NFB leaders that students are important because we are the future leaders of the organization. This mantra, while well-intentioned, I think is only part of the story. We are the future of the NFB but we are part of the present as well. We have important contributions to make that we can put into practice today, in NABS and also in our affiliates, and we are capable of engaging in full-fledged leadership. For example, I know that the Wisconsin student division just hosted their affiliate's state convention. I also know of at least one state student division that managed the legislative appointments for their affiliate's Washington Seminar delegation. Whether or not we hold elected offices in our chapters or affiliates, we can always involve ourselves by offering to serve on committees, head up projects, or present novel ideas to the leadership. The key is to figure out how to make a solution happen, and to offer to do the necessary work, instead of merely complaining about the problem. Arielle From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Tue May 4 03:59:28 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 21:59:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader References: <10804E4B-FA07-499C-B322-459C5181BE64@mac.com> Message-ID: <0AFEB641AD9D4250B67F759FAC13CEF8@azizaLatD430> George, Email me off list please? Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 4:55 PM Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader > Hi all. > I'm now starting highschool this fall in NYC, and I'm considering several > things to get to be ready for school. I have different ideas, depending on > what I noticed, but one of things I realized is that there are times, > specially towards the start of the year, but it still happens that the > Science or Social Studies teacher is telling us to read out of certain > books and we don't have them or its not scanned yet, but we have to do the > classwork for that day. > Do you think the KNFB READER would be a good idea to get? > > The other thing too is that when we go places--restaurants and the like, > the menus have to be read to me. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against > having things read to me when its absolutely needed, but the thing is, I'm > always thinking - what if I'm by myself? Or with friends? With my parents > its fine, and I'm sure my friends would never say anything, but if I can > do this by myself why not? > > What do you guys think? Is it worth saving up for a KNFB mobile device? > > (getting the cell version is would force our family plan out the window > cause we'd have to switch companies) > > Any feedback is appreciated. > > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue May 4 04:16:38 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 21:16:38 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] living skills at home In-Reply-To: <71253D43DD41460DAA62C2DD1C8CDD25@Ashley> References: <45F1B48FBAD643CB8AC2DC619BB1B410@Ashley> <71253D43DD41460DAA62C2DD1C8CDD25@Ashley> Message-ID: bereau services in nevada does not have a center. I went to the lcb finily witht he nevada services kicking and screaming the whole time. Take care. On May 3, 2010, at 5:54 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Sara, > For fridge food I also go by smell and I can feel the difference in containers sometimes; the orange juice carton feels different than the milk one. I also use my vision. I don't think I'd label fridge food. But freezer food feels similar and you can't smell it. So I would need a labeling method for freezer items. > > For the center, where was this? Was the Bureau services a residential facility you stayed at? > > Take care. > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] living skills at home > > >> I've never labeled freezer food and fridge food I go by smell and taste alone which is pretty interesting sometimes. I can't believe it's not better is gross on a taco salad for instance. >> >> As to the center I learned a bit at the bureau services for the blind but they shrugged me off with out worning and i had to buy my own stuff and they would not reimburse me at all when I had to buy the mail eggs and stuff I used to cook with. >> >> They sort of taught me how to label but they were not that helpful in that regard and it did not help that the services here don't like the nfb or the nfb canes much. >> >> Take care. >> >> S >> On May 2, 2010, at 4:06 PM, wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Obtaining living skills is real important to our success. I went to our state's center which seemed to have high expectations and some blind instructors. I am still developing my skills in cooking though. We got that class three times a week. >>> >>> I know many of you went to NFB centers at one point or another, but I'm sure some of your instruction came at home. You might have had a willing parent or family member show you tasks and then you helped with chores or dinner or maybe you had a rehab teacher come to your home and learned that way. >>> >>> I read articles from Future reflections about parents needing to be involved and teaching their kids such as the article "Chore Wars" or "Parents: a blind child's first mobility teacher". >>> I came from a protective family but as I got older and my dad got involved with NFB and I also got more assertive I got to do a little more around here. I had a few rehab teachers come to my home too. This was as a teen. They were good. I got my microwave and oven labeled and the laundry machines. I got some basics down from them like how to do laundry, labeling, and how to clean some areas. >>> >>> So what skills did you learn at home? Who taught you table skills? This was done for me at school by teachers of the vision impaired and a rehab teacher showed me a few things too. I was curious where you got some of your skills from because even if you attend a center of any kind they can't teach you everything. >>> >>> Also, what techniques work for you to label food items? Dimo tape works for dry items such as cans and boxes. But I wonder about the refrigerator and freezer food. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue May 4 05:01:39 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 01:01:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com><0E5C66A77BCB4E73B35480F1F78A850B@hometwxakonvzn><16340557675A4AB89F61023C19299A68@Rufus><52896C60-0202-4894-BFCF-31A66778E71F@gmail.com><56A0A610D1594FDC8F97B23BD1BE6619@Rufus> Message-ID: <8A1D7B33816843DA903335683C0D61CB@Rufus> David, Very true, capital campaigns are different from program development. Yet, there is also a certain level of funding capital you deteriorate when you exhaust funding sources for something as massive as a building project. In terms others can understand, the window of opportunity is not without boundaries, and the money you could have otherwise requested for program design will have been spent by the massive funds that went to finance this multimillion-dollar expansion. Surely you are not suggesting that the line of donors that put up the expansion is completely independent of the program donors. It is not unreasonable to suggest that the same funding sources can't be tapped after the capital project is complete, but funders also want to see the results of the programs that were supposedly going to be incubated in the expansion. As you will know, the focus of a capital campaign is not the building itself, but rather, the benefits the extra capacity will render to the community it serves. As a previous fundraiser yourself, can you honestly tell me the expansion has evolved into a good return on investment? So, what are the results? We could go program by program, and even with evidence on both sides I doubt we would ever convince each other of the other's points. A capital campaign should have left the organization in a much better position to fundraise, economy notwithstanding, because although funds for new programs have experienced a dip since the recession began, loyal funding for existing programs has not fallen off the rails. The ideal nonprofit does rely on at least 85% of its funding to be generated from individuals, but this is no typical operation. The 85% the NFB is relying on also happens to represent a sector of the population that is largely unemployed. In response to your previous post, I agree the Affiliate Action department is an excellent resource with excellent staff, but four individuals are not going to reverse the persistent trend of declining membership numbers, not as long as the department continues to operate in a vacuum, and as much as I love the people that run Affiliate Action, how is it that the NFB managed to get so big so fast in times where there were no streaming feeds, list-serves, no teleconference lines or TOPS curriculums? At this rate, you may be wondering why I bother sticking around. Hahaha, I sometimes wonder too, but I've got one more NFB card to play before I call it good and fully turn to my own future nonprofit venture. I've never shied away from hard work. It's just that I finally figured out I did not have to serve on a board to make a difference. This is something our history speaks of, but maybe I needed to grow up a little before I could fully appreciate it. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5083 (20100503) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Tue May 4 05:06:20 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 01:06:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ~Jewel On 5/3/10, Arielle Silverman wrote: > Hi all, > > Whenever a question arises regarding NFB philosophy, the person asking > the question is often advised to read books or listen to long speeches > in order to find the answer. But to me the essence of NFB philosophy > is very simple and can be conveyed with the sentence, "It is > respectable to be blind." A single sentence, which can be stated in a > single breath. The rest, I believe, is our collective opinions about > how the respectability of blind people can best be affirmed and > upheld. People can and do debate about the details, the policy > positions and the program priorities that the organized blind should > take toward the end of respectability. But the core of our philosophy, > the notion that blindness is respectable and that the blind deserve > dignity, is in my opinion a truth that very few people would argue > against. And I fully believe that many people who choose to affiliate > with the ACB, or not to join a blindness organization at all, are > still NFB-ers at heart because they are committed to the > respectability of being blind and they demonstrate it through their > daily actions and full participation in society. I don't believe the > NFB will be gone in fifty years because this basic truth will still > exist and will still need our effort to keep respectability a reality > for the blind. > > I will say that I don't agree with all the policy decisions and > priorities that the NFB has taken in recent years. If it were up to > me, for instance, I would spend much less time and resources on Web > accessibility lawsuits and more energy trying to improve the quality > of education at state schools for the blind, or the accessibility of > entry-level jobs so blind teens can work in the same kinds of > part-time jobs as their sighted peers and develop a sense of > self-reliance. I don't agree fully with our Social Security Earnings > legislation, and I have felt disappointed by the lack of concrete > plans to match our rhetoric about fixing the Braille literacy crisis. > I also don't agree with some of the political norms that have become > widely accepted in the Federation on the national and state levels. > However, I recognize that the NFB is run by human beings and that our > programs not only depend on funding, but also tend to reflect the > particular whims of our leaders and their preferences, talents, > strengths and weaknesses. I am aware that while I am president of > NABS, our student division will probably be strong in some areas and > weak in others corresponding to my particular interests. It's > something we can remedy by involving a diverse group of leaders, but > it can't be fully avoided. > > I too sometimes feel burned out, and sometimes perceive our national > convention as more like a big sales outfit than like the meeting of a > civil rights organization. However, I keep working in the Federation > and I plan to do so forever because I recognize that there is still > more work to be done to make respectability a reality for all blind > people. There are still blind people of all ages and backgrounds who > haven't yet realized what their potential is or how to reach it. And > daily encounters with the public remind me that the truth about > blindness is a surprise rather than a given for many of our sighted > brethren. Furthermore, I recognize that our organization cannot > possibly get better in my eyes if I don't make myself part of the > solution. I believe that it is up to our newer members and > particularly our younger members to identify new issues, new points of > change, and to bring them to the attention of the current leadership. > > I often hear from national and state NFB leaders that students are > important because we are the future leaders of the organization. This > mantra, while well-intentioned, I think is only part of the story. We > are the future of the NFB but we are part of the present as well. We > have important contributions to make that we can put into practice > today, in NABS and also in our affiliates, and we are capable of > engaging in full-fledged leadership. For example, I know that the > Wisconsin student division just hosted their affiliate's state > convention. I also know of at least one state student division that > managed the legislative appointments for their affiliate's Washington > Seminar delegation. Whether or not we hold elected offices in our > chapters or affiliates, we can always involve ourselves by offering to > serve on committees, head up projects, or present novel ideas to the > leadership. The key is to figure out how to make a solution happen, > and to offer to do the necessary work, instead of merely complaining > about the problem. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From graduate56 at juno.com Tue May 4 04:57:26 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 22:57:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <006b01caea78$da7869a0$8f693ce0$@org> Message-ID: <222458FBD1A24A4E9F1133DD865842DC@melissa> I like that. Raising up new giants. You are also correct. No minority has done it alone. Finally, there have been and still are many sighted people that work to make our movement a success. That should be pointed out. Not all sighted people are against us. Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maryann Migliorelli" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > Greetings Briley, > Bravo for you!!! Very well said!!! > > I would advise that you get the audio copy of "The mana and the movement" > when you can, especially if you can get the one with the original speeches > included. It's a long read but definitely worth the time and attention. > > It always amazes me to hear blind people say that they "did it all on > their > own." Our history is different in situations but not in the nature from > many other civil rights minorities. None of us have done it alone. We > all > stand on the shoulders of some pretty incredible giants who have helped to > pave the way for us, and, hopefully, we will all work to raise up new > giants > to continue moving our cause forward. > > Regards, > Maryann Migliorelli > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ $653/Month for $150,000 Mortgage! Free Quotes. No SSN or Credit Check. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bdfb22676a052ea40cst05duc From graduate56 at juno.com Tue May 4 05:05:37 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 23:05:37 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7BFF7C6A3788426F883B4C6DE5C6E120@melissa> You have made some really good points. However, I would add that not knowing our history can apply to many cultures. I am thankful to the generations of leaders that have struggled to provide me with the freedom that I have today. I also would make the point that many of the older generation do not want to support change. Which is a problem in the federation and in other organizations and cultures as well. Just like other groups and cultures, the nfb does have its share of people who complain. As well as those who talk the talk but can't walk the walk. I would also add that affiliates need to both cultivate and support the chapters, and devisions more. This is the only way that we will continue to change what it means to be blind. Like others have said, I don't agree with everything that the nfb supports. I also think that there are some people that are excluded because they have another disability other than blindness. However, I choose to be apart of the Nfb. This is because I can relate to many parts of the phillosiphy and the ideas that is the foundation of the federation. Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > Good afternoon all, > > I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel is to often > overlooked in our organization; our history as a movement. I've grown up > in this organization, and admittedly didn't fully understand our history > until about a month ago when I began digging a little deeper. > > The federation has always been an important force in my life, and has > shaped my views about my blindness, even during the periods where I wasn't > actively involved. I always heard about what great leaders we've had, and > was exposed to tidbits of information at state conventions or national > events. But most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which > is understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the obstacles > that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily basis, and how the > federation is responding to them. However, life events have spurred me on > to discover more about our roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's > sake, but it has a point which I think is important, so stay with me. > > I am dating someone who has never been actively involved with any of the > blindness consumer organizations. He recently realized his need for > further training, and that lead him to ask me my reasons for being a > federationist. He began asking me questions about how the federation > began, how the philosophy developed, and how the rehabilitation views of > the NFB evolved. I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, > and was disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. Jernigan's > involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, and something about > airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but beyond that, my historical > knowledge of the NFB was supremely limited. After discussing this with > some of my friends in the organization, I found that the problem wasn't > just with me. I'm on the board of our local chapter, and it became > apparent to me after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. > We have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots are vital > to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't exist. > > I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done an amazing job > of making our history available to us. www.nfb.org is a gold mine of > information, even some of the parts that are hard to see. Issues of the > Braille Monitor are available online going back 25 years, and important > speeches are available in both text and recorded form going back before > that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that blind people > faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it took to get out there > every day and command respect from a sighted public is not just > commendable, but amazing to me. > > I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization accuse the older > generation of the federation of being too "militant," or > "confrontational." While I do not always agree with how the older > generation has approached some issues, when you really dig and read about > what they had to indoor just to be able to do things we take for granted > today, you develop a greater respect for their views and approach. We > still have a long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I > think we've lost respect for our past. > > I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the beginnings and progress > our movement has made over the past 70 years. You will be amazed, and it > will make you really understand, respect, and love this organization. I > have had my share of frustrations with the organization over the years. > But I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not just for > what it has meant to me, but what it has done even before I was born to > insure that I can live and work in a world where I am seen as an equal > with my sighted peers. No organization is perfect because no person is > perfect. But we must all remember to appreciate this community we have, > built upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind people > before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness should not limit our > life choices. > > Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our history. We > will all be better for it. > > Best, > Briley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED! $160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bdfb22761e432ea40cst05duc From graduate56 at juno.com Tue May 4 04:56:31 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 22:56:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future References: Message-ID: <74D4A0008C2B45B49F660591D9F122B6@melissa> Wow! Very well said Arielle. Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future > Hi all, > > Whenever a question arises regarding NFB philosophy, the person asking > the question is often advised to read books or listen to long speeches > in order to find the answer. But to me the essence of NFB philosophy > is very simple and can be conveyed with the sentence, "It is > respectable to be blind." A single sentence, which can be stated in a > single breath. The rest, I believe, is our collective opinions about > how the respectability of blind people can best be affirmed and > upheld. People can and do debate about the details, the policy > positions and the program priorities that the organized blind should > take toward the end of respectability. But the core of our philosophy, > the notion that blindness is respectable and that the blind deserve > dignity, is in my opinion a truth that very few people would argue > against. And I fully believe that many people who choose to affiliate > with the ACB, or not to join a blindness organization at all, are > still NFB-ers at heart because they are committed to the > respectability of being blind and they demonstrate it through their > daily actions and full participation in society. I don't believe the > NFB will be gone in fifty years because this basic truth will still > exist and will still need our effort to keep respectability a reality > for the blind. > > I will say that I don't agree with all the policy decisions and > priorities that the NFB has taken in recent years. If it were up to > me, for instance, I would spend much less time and resources on Web > accessibility lawsuits and more energy trying to improve the quality > of education at state schools for the blind, or the accessibility of > entry-level jobs so blind teens can work in the same kinds of > part-time jobs as their sighted peers and develop a sense of > self-reliance. I don't agree fully with our Social Security Earnings > legislation, and I have felt disappointed by the lack of concrete > plans to match our rhetoric about fixing the Braille literacy crisis. > I also don't agree with some of the political norms that have become > widely accepted in the Federation on the national and state levels. > However, I recognize that the NFB is run by human beings and that our > programs not only depend on funding, but also tend to reflect the > particular whims of our leaders and their preferences, talents, > strengths and weaknesses. I am aware that while I am president of > NABS, our student division will probably be strong in some areas and > weak in others corresponding to my particular interests. It's > something we can remedy by involving a diverse group of leaders, but > it can't be fully avoided. > > I too sometimes feel burned out, and sometimes perceive our national > convention as more like a big sales outfit than like the meeting of a > civil rights organization. However, I keep working in the Federation > and I plan to do so forever because I recognize that there is still > more work to be done to make respectability a reality for all blind > people. There are still blind people of all ages and backgrounds who > haven't yet realized what their potential is or how to reach it. And > daily encounters with the public remind me that the truth about > blindness is a surprise rather than a given for many of our sighted > brethren. Furthermore, I recognize that our organization cannot > possibly get better in my eyes if I don't make myself part of the > solution. I believe that it is up to our newer members and > particularly our younger members to identify new issues, new points of > change, and to bring them to the attention of the current leadership. > > I often hear from national and state NFB leaders that students are > important because we are the future leaders of the organization. This > mantra, while well-intentioned, I think is only part of the story. We > are the future of the NFB but we are part of the present as well. We > have important contributions to make that we can put into practice > today, in NABS and also in our affiliates, and we are capable of > engaging in full-fledged leadership. For example, I know that the > Wisconsin student division just hosted their affiliate's state > convention. I also know of at least one state student division that > managed the legislative appointments for their affiliate's Washington > Seminar delegation. Whether or not we hold elected offices in our > chapters or affiliates, we can always involve ourselves by offering to > serve on committees, head up projects, or present novel ideas to the > leadership. The key is to figure out how to make a solution happen, > and to offer to do the necessary work, instead of merely complaining > about the problem. > > Arielle > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED! $160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bdfb224ad1452ea40cst05duc From catherine.1966 at yahoo.com Tue May 4 13:02:40 2010 From: catherine.1966 at yahoo.com (Catherine Newman) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 06:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] I apologizes for whatever was sent yesterday. Message-ID: <849393.3300.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Good Morning All! Whatever was sent yesterday came from someone who got into my account. I apologizes for that. I am still looking for a roommate for a young man (21 years old)  for the National Convention. He will be arriving on July 02 and returning home on the July 09. IF anyone be willing to share a double room please contact me offline and I will share his information with you. Thanks and Good Luck on your finials Everyone. Sincerely Yours, Catherine Newman nabs_delawaredivision at yahoo.com From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue May 4 02:48:24 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 20:48:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS May Bulletin! Message-ID: national Association of Blind Students >From the Desk of the President May 3, 2010 In This Bulletin: 1. Convention Countdown! 2. News from the Membership Committee! 3. State division Announcements 1. Convention Countdown! In exactly two months we will begin gathering in Dallas for our weeklong National Federation of the Blind (NFB) annual convention! Convention activities will begin on Saturday, July 3, and the convention will adjourn after the banquet on Thursday, July 8. Why should you come to the convention? Meet other blind students across the country (including people you may know from the NABS listserv) at our annual NABS meeting on Sunday, July 4. Meet blind lawyers, scientists, musicians, writers, social workers, and other professionals in our division meetings on July 4 and 5. Learn more about our training centers and how you can attend one. Browse the latest in assistive technology at the exhibit hall. Attend our general sessions on July 6, 7, and 8 to learn about important developments in technology, rehabilitation, and legislation for the blind. Have fun at karaoke, dancing, a talent show, Monte Carlo Night, and other exciting events! There will also be exciting workshops and social opportunities specifically for teens throughout the convention. Hotel rooms are still available! Call the Hilton Anatole at (214) 761-7500 to reserve your room today. Reservations will run out before June 1, so call soon. To pre-register for the convention, go to www.nfb.org It's not too late to talk to your state president if you need financial assistance to attend the convention or if you would like to find roommates. See you at convention! News from the Membership Committee: Greetings fellow students! The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner (president NFB of Utah) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there promises to be something for you! Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter and to your locally moderated list serve for more information regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! Wishing you the best in your finals, The Nabs membership committee. The membership committee is also working on planning some fun student events at convention! If you have ideas or suggestions, please contact Darian Smith at dsmithnfb at gmail.com or Janice Jeang at Janice.jeang at gmail.com More details will be announced in June. State Division Announcements: >From Wisconsin: The NFB of Wisconsin held their 35th annual state convention the weekend of April 23-25 in Appleton Wisconsin. This year, WABS hosted the convention for the first time. Friday morning began with mentoring opportunities with the younger students in astronomy and chemistry. We had our business meeting/seminar on Friday afternoon and rounded out the evening with a talent show. Saturday, over the lunch break, we held elections, and the new board is as follows: President, Chelsea Reilly Vice President, Sarah Baebler Secretary, Laurie Holzmann Treasurer, Meghan Whalen First board member, Imran Ahmed Second board member, Joanne Stark After a hasty election, we darted outdoors to the rain and whipped cream for an opportunity of a lifetime. How many people can say they had the chance to throw pies in the face of Dr. Maurer? Not many, and they all come from Wisconsin. We would like to thank our targets. They included: John Fritz, President of NFBW WABS' very own Vice President, Sarah Baebler Our NABS rep Sean Whalen and of course, Dr. Marc Maurer, President, National Federation of the Blind. Saturday evening, prior to the banquet, we had an opportunity for people to have their pictures taken. Proceeds went to WABS. Following the banquet and the auction, WABS held a prom, where people had the opportunity to have more pictures taken and dance the night away in their formal attire. Sunday, shortly after convention adjourned, WABS rounded up conventioneers to head to a nearby middle school to play goalball for a couple of hours. In the upcoming year, WABS plans to organize a variety of events and fundraising including but not limited to: selling pizza at the Lodi Agricultural Fair conducting our annual seminar with rock climbing swarming Washington DC and hopefully not getting snowed in and various fundraising activities as needed. We eagerly anticipate the upcoming year with this new dynamic board. Best, Chelsea Reilly, President Wisconsin Association of Blind Students >From Utah: Uabs will be holding a game night fundraiser on may 21st at 8pm at the red lion hotel at are state convention. For more information, contact Mac Biggers at utahabs at yahoo.com >From Michigan: If you have been a college student in the state of Michigan within the past five years, then the Michigan Association of Blind Students would like to hear from you. We are currently in the process of conducting a survey on the quality of services college students are receiving from the Michigan Commission for the Blind. If you would like to take part in our survey, send an email to students.nfbmi at gmail.com. We will be sending out surveys beginning on Monday, May 10, 2010, and would like to receive completed surveys no later than Monday, June 7, 2010. The Michigan Commission for the Blind will be holding a special meeting to discuss the adoption of a new college policy on Monday, June 21, 2010, and we want to make sure that the voices of college students are heard during this important meeting. Elizabeth Mohnke Michigan Association of Blind Students -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Tue May 4 19:30:44 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 13:30:44 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future References: <74D4A0008C2B45B49F660591D9F122B6@melissa> Message-ID: I agree! Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future > Wow! > Very well said Arielle. > > Melissa Green > No person has the right to rain on your dreams. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arielle Silverman" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 9:33 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] NFB-Past, Present and Future > > >> Hi all, >> >> Whenever a question arises regarding NFB philosophy, the person asking >> the question is often advised to read books or listen to long speeches >> in order to find the answer. But to me the essence of NFB philosophy >> is very simple and can be conveyed with the sentence, "It is >> respectable to be blind." A single sentence, which can be stated in a >> single breath. The rest, I believe, is our collective opinions about >> how the respectability of blind people can best be affirmed and >> upheld. People can and do debate about the details, the policy >> positions and the program priorities that the organized blind should >> take toward the end of respectability. But the core of our philosophy, >> the notion that blindness is respectable and that the blind deserve >> dignity, is in my opinion a truth that very few people would argue >> against. And I fully believe that many people who choose to affiliate >> with the ACB, or not to join a blindness organization at all, are >> still NFB-ers at heart because they are committed to the >> respectability of being blind and they demonstrate it through their >> daily actions and full participation in society. I don't believe the >> NFB will be gone in fifty years because this basic truth will still >> exist and will still need our effort to keep respectability a reality >> for the blind. >> >> I will say that I don't agree with all the policy decisions and >> priorities that the NFB has taken in recent years. If it were up to >> me, for instance, I would spend much less time and resources on Web >> accessibility lawsuits and more energy trying to improve the quality >> of education at state schools for the blind, or the accessibility of >> entry-level jobs so blind teens can work in the same kinds of >> part-time jobs as their sighted peers and develop a sense of >> self-reliance. I don't agree fully with our Social Security Earnings >> legislation, and I have felt disappointed by the lack of concrete >> plans to match our rhetoric about fixing the Braille literacy crisis. >> I also don't agree with some of the political norms that have become >> widely accepted in the Federation on the national and state levels. >> However, I recognize that the NFB is run by human beings and that our >> programs not only depend on funding, but also tend to reflect the >> particular whims of our leaders and their preferences, talents, >> strengths and weaknesses. I am aware that while I am president of >> NABS, our student division will probably be strong in some areas and >> weak in others corresponding to my particular interests. It's >> something we can remedy by involving a diverse group of leaders, but >> it can't be fully avoided. >> >> I too sometimes feel burned out, and sometimes perceive our national >> convention as more like a big sales outfit than like the meeting of a >> civil rights organization. However, I keep working in the Federation >> and I plan to do so forever because I recognize that there is still >> more work to be done to make respectability a reality for all blind >> people. There are still blind people of all ages and backgrounds who >> haven't yet realized what their potential is or how to reach it. And >> daily encounters with the public remind me that the truth about >> blindness is a surprise rather than a given for many of our sighted >> brethren. Furthermore, I recognize that our organization cannot >> possibly get better in my eyes if I don't make myself part of the >> solution. I believe that it is up to our newer members and >> particularly our younger members to identify new issues, new points of >> change, and to bring them to the attention of the current leadership. >> >> I often hear from national and state NFB leaders that students are >> important because we are the future leaders of the organization. This >> mantra, while well-intentioned, I think is only part of the story. We >> are the future of the NFB but we are part of the present as well. We >> have important contributions to make that we can put into practice >> today, in NABS and also in our affiliates, and we are capable of >> engaging in full-fledged leadership. For example, I know that the >> Wisconsin student division just hosted their affiliate's state >> convention. I also know of at least one state student division that >> managed the legislative appointments for their affiliate's Washington >> Seminar delegation. Whether or not we hold elected offices in our >> chapters or affiliates, we can always involve ourselves by offering to >> serve on committees, head up projects, or present novel ideas to the >> leadership. The key is to figure out how to make a solution happen, >> and to offer to do the necessary work, instead of merely complaining >> about the problem. >> >> Arielle >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Refinance Now 4.0% FIXED! > $160,000 Mortgage for $633/mo. Free. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bdfb224ad1452ea40cst05duc > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue May 4 22:10:56 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 18:10:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] email? Message-ID: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com> Hi Azziza and Megan. You noted in your emails that you wanted me to contact you off list but didn't give out your email. If I reply to the message, would that email you directly? Otherwise, please give me your email. Thanks. Jorge From marrie12 at gmail.com Tue May 4 23:32:04 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 16:32:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] email? In-Reply-To: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com> References: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com> Message-ID: <2F106980-1422-4B31-BA27-13411CD2AE99@gmail.com> No it won't. Try looking int he header of the message to see if you can access the email address. Talke care. On May 4, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi Azziza and Megan. > > You noted in your emails that you wanted me to contact you off list but didn't give out your email. > If I reply to the message, would that email you directly? > > Otherwise, please give me your email. > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 5 00:53:17 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 20:53:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] email? In-Reply-To: <2F106980-1422-4B31-BA27-13411CD2AE99@gmail.com> References: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com> <2F106980-1422-4B31-BA27-13411CD2AE99@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2AE038439D0A4DFEB137941CF96421EE@Rufus> If you're using JAWS, you can also use Shift + Alt + R to reply directly to the sender. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:32 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] email? No it won't. Try looking int he header of the message to see if you can access the email address. Talke care. On May 4, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hi Azziza and Megan. > > You noted in your emails that you wanted me to contact you off list but didn't give out your email. > If I reply to the message, would that email you directly? > > Otherwise, please give me your email. > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12 %40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5086 (20100504) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5086 (20100504) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 5 01:06:21 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 21:06:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site Message-ID: Hi All, Since I'm job searching now, since I have my BA now, I joined the network linked in to network. If you used and joined groups on www.linkedin.com how is it? Is it real accessible? So far it seems more straight forward than other social network sites i saw. What benefits are there to this? This online discussion stuff is new to me. I hope it helps me network and get employment. Ashley From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com Wed May 5 01:22:58 2010 From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 20:22:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] email? References: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com><2F106980-1422-4B31-BA27-13411CD2AE99@gmail.com> <2AE038439D0A4DFEB137941CF96421EE@Rufus> Message-ID: <6CD298FC216B439396FBB1E42DA2DCAF@computer> in actuality it's insert control r when not in the email. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] email? > If you're using JAWS, you can also use Shift + Alt + R to reply directly > to > the sender. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] email? > > No it won't. Try looking int he header of the message to see if > you can access the email address. > > Talke care. > On May 4, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Hi Azziza and Megan. >> >> You noted in your emails that you wanted me to contact you > off list but didn't give out your email. >> If I reply to the message, would that email you directly? >> >> Otherwise, please give me your email. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5086 (20100504) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5086 (20100504) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 5 04:29:18 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 23:29:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NFB President Marc Maurer to Receive Honorary Doctorate from University of South Carolina Upstate Message-ID: >Subject: NFB President Marc Maurer to Receive Honorary Doctorate >from University of South Carolina > Upstate >Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 08:08:28 -0400 >Thread-Topic: NFB President Marc Maurer to Receive Honorary >Doctorate from University of South > Carolina Upstate >thread-index: AcrrgnFgnLDRLIGFTEqcCXXFt29iRQ== >From: "Freeh, Jessica" >To: "Freeh, Jessica" > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > > > >CONTACT: > >Chris Danielsen > >Director of Public Relations > >National Federation of the Blind > >(410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > >(410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > >NFB President Marc Maurer to Receive Honorary Doctorate >from "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />University of South >Carolina Upstate > > > >Baltimore, Maryland (May 3, 2010): The National Federation of the >Blind (NFB), the largest organization of blind people in the United >States, today announced that its president, Dr. Marc Maurer, will >receive an honorary doctor of laws degree from the University of >South Carolina Upstate at the 2010 commencement ceremony on May 4, 2010. > > > >Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, >said: "I am pleased and privileged to receive an honorary degree >from the University of South Carolina Upstate. As president of the >largest organization of blind people in the United States, I have >been fortunate to play a role in many exciting and life-changing >developments for blind people in America. While we have made much >progress, there is still more to be done. Only 10 percent of blind >children are learning Braille in this country, and this directly >contributes to a 70 percent unemployment rate among blind people in >the United States. I humbly accept this honor on behalf of blind >Americans and pledge to work harder than ever to ensure that the >blind are not left behind in today's society." > > > >Maurer earned his law degree from Indiana University in 1977 and >began focusing on representing blind individuals in the courts. A >member of the bar in Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, Maryland, and the Bar of >the Supreme Court, Maurer is one of the most experienced lawyers in >the field of civil rights and discrimination against the blind. > >Maurer has been president of the National Federation of the Blind >since 1986. In that capacity, he joined President George W. Bush in >the Oval Office in 2001 to celebrate the organization's Everest >Expedition, and was present for Bush's signing into law the Help >America Vote Act of 2002. He has promoted new technology for the >blind, including the knfbReader Mobile (a revolutionary cell phone >application that scans and reads aloud most printed material) and >the prototype vehicle for the Blind Driver Challenge. He has >overseen the visionary expansion of the NFB Jernigan Institute, the >first training and research institute for the blind, led by the >blind. He has also previously served as president of the North >America/Caribbean Region of the World Blind Union. In November >2009, Dr. Maurer was awarded the Rev. John J. Cavanaugh, C.S.C., >Award for outstanding contributions in the field of public service >from the University of Notre Dame Alumni Association. > > > >For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, >please visit www.nfb.org. > > > > > >### > > > >About the National Federation of the Blind > >With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind >is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind >people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives >through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs >encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading >force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's >blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of >the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center >in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 5 04:34:46 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 04 May 2010 23:34:46 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video Message-ID: > >---------- >From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >To: Danielsen, Chris >Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource > >I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, >in case you didn't, here it is. We've been >asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended for >a one-stop resource for locating described >movies on DVD, and so now we've made >one. Please share far and wide as you see fit. > >Best, >Mary >*** > >WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the >Descriptive Video Service (DVS®) has debuted two >new online resources today for fans of described >movies. Both can be reached via a new, >easy-to-remember Web site address: www.describedmovies.org > >1. DVS on DVD >This page of our site has been updated to enable >description fans to learn about mainstream DVD >and Blu-ray discs that are available with audio >description, and provides a Amazon click through >option which takes you directly to the page of >amazon.com to order the disc. The DVD and >Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available >wherever discs are sold (online and in stores), >however clicking through our site to purchase >your movies will provide the Media Access Group >with a small percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. > >(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal >Pictures Home Entertainment, starring Meryl >Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is the >most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) > >2. Full List of DVS Movies >This page lists every movie we've described for >television, cable, DVS Home Video and DVS >Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS >debuted as a service in 1990. We're at nearly >800 films! The list is sortable by movie title >or distributor (the company for which we >originally described the film). Ask for >described versions of movies from your >television, cable or satellite provider, from >movies by mail services and from Web sites which >offer streaming or downloadable movies. > >As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >information about movies offered with >description in theaters equipped with Motion >Picture Access systems. And try >www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip >code, set the search filter for DVS and find the >equipped theaters, described movies and accessible showtimes near you. > >We like hearing from you, so please let us know >what you think, and if you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. > >Thank you. > >The Media Access Group at WGBH >Boston – Los Angeles >access.wgbh.org >617 300-3700 >access at wgbh.org From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Wed May 5 04:39:13 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 21:39:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <423930.91329.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It is a good sight. I have used it and found it a success. I networked and found one who has needed people to promote an organization. In fact, I have been working for some time with them to help improve there website and have developed a great relationship with the company. In essence, Linkedin is a good sight, it helps those connect and it helps with connecting like-minded individuals. Hope this helps --- On Tue, 5/4/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:06 PM > Hi All, > > Since I'm job searching now, since I have my BA now, I > joined the network linked in to network.  If you used > and joined groups on www.linkedin.com how is it?  Is it > real accessible?  So far it seems more straight forward > than other social network sites i saw.  What benefits > are there to this?  This online discussion stuff is new > to me.  I hope it helps me network and get employment. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From freespirit328 at gmail.com Wed May 5 05:05:14 2010 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 01:05:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site References: Message-ID: <31604B066BE04C06BDC30BD33A4552B0@Gateway> It's not free. I Don't think you can really use it unless you pay, but maybe there's something I don't know :) Jen From marrie12 at gmail.com Wed May 5 09:04:30 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 02:04:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] email? In-Reply-To: <2AE038439D0A4DFEB137941CF96421EE@Rufus> References: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com> <2F106980-1422-4B31-BA27-13411CD2AE99@gmail.com> <2AE038439D0A4DFEB137941CF96421EE@Rufus> Message-ID: I've had that fail so I jsut read headers and get emails from there. works fine, a bit of a pain but work s fine, for now anyways. Take catre. S On May 4, 2010, at 5:53 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > If you're using JAWS, you can also use Shift + Alt + R to reply directly to > the sender. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 7:32 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] email? > > No it won't. Try looking int he header of the message to see if > you can access the email address. > > Talke care. > On May 4, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > >> Hi Azziza and Megan. >> >> You noted in your emails that you wanted me to contact you > off list but didn't give out your email. >> If I reply to the message, would that email you directly? >> >> Otherwise, please give me your email. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12 > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5086 (20100504) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5086 (20100504) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed May 5 14:12:37 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 09:12:37 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Law Schools Discriminate Against Blind Applicants Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Law Schools Discriminate Against Blind Applicants National Federation of the Blind Files Complaints Against Nine Law Schools Baltimore, Maryland (May 5, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation's oldest and largest organization of blind people, announced today that it has filed complaints with the United States Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, requesting investigations of nine prominent law schools for violating the civil rights of blind and other print-disabled law school applicants. The NFB filed the complaints because the law schools require applicants who wish to have the convenience of applying online to use a centralized Internet-based application process provided by the Law School Admissions Council (LSAC) through its Web site (www.lsac.org) that is inaccessible to blind law school applicants. While sighted law school applicants can use the LSAC system to submit multiple law school applications at once, blind students must seek sighted assistance to use the LSAC system. Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act requires these law schools to offer equal access to their programs and services. The nine law schools named in the complaints are The University of Chicago Law School, Yeshiva University's Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, Atlanta's John Marshall Law School, University of Denver's Sturm College of Law, Washington and Lee University School of Law, University of Miami School of Law, William Mitchell College of Law, Gonzaga University School of Law, and Northeastern University School of Law. The complaints ask the Justice Department to require these law schools to suspend use of the LSAC application system until it is accessible to blind and other print-disabled students and to require each law school to provide the same application process in a format available to all students. The NFB already has a lawsuit pending against the LSAC for violating California law by maintaining an inaccessible Web site. Blind people access Web sites on computers equipped with screen access software that converts what is on the screen into synthesized speech or Braille. The keyboard is used instead of a mouse to navigate the Web site and click on selected links or buttons. If a Web site is improperly coded, however, blind computer users cannot access or interact with the site. The LSAC application process does not present information to screen access software and thus requires blind users to resort to sighted assistance. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "The National Federation of the Blind expects those who control admission to the practice of law to obey the law. Forcing blind law school applicants to use a separate and inherently unequal application process violates both the letter and the spirit of the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Rehabilitation Act. Accessibility standards for Web-based forms like those used in the Law School Admissions Council's application system have been in place for years and have been successfully implemented by many other Web sites, so there is no reason why the LSAC cannot make its application service available to blind law school applicants. That is why we have asked the United States Department of Justice to act swiftly and decisively to ensure that blind law school applicants are treated the same as their sighted peers." The National Federation of the Blind is represented in this matter by Daniel F. Goldstein and Mehgan Sidhu of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy; Laurence W. Paradis, Anna Levine, and Karla Gilbride of the Berkley firm Disability Rights Advocates; and Scott C. LaBarre of the Denver firm LaBarre Law Offices. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Wed May 5 15:04:41 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 09:04:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] email? References: <85EF587E-A4F8-4122-829F-986236FC7FE3@mac.com> Message-ID: Here's mine: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Aziza ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 4:10 PM Subject: [nabs-l] email? > Hi Azziza and Megan. > > You noted in your emails that you wanted me to contact you off list but > didn't give out your email. > If I reply to the message, would that email you directly? > > Otherwise, please give me your email. > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 5 16:22:39 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] webcast for book port plus Message-ID: >From: Pamela Rader >To: Discusses Book Port Plus DTB player/recorder >Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 11:07:57 -0400 >Subject: [Bpp] : > webcast for book port plus >Hi: > >APH will be conducting webcasts on Book Port Plus. > >For those of you who have been struggling with your new device and >wish to have more assistance, please read on. > >Book Port+ Webcast Presentations > >This month, join us for 3 webcast presentations featuring APH's new >book reader and digital recorder, the Book Port Plus. > >Friday, May 7th. >Getting Started: Using the Built-in Help Features to Get to Know >your Book Port Plus. > >Thursday, May 13th. >Text, Audio and DAISY: Finding Existing Titles and Sending New >Content to your Book Port Plus. > >Tuesday, May 18th. >Navigating the Different Files: Exploring Books, Newspapers, >Magazines, Documents and Audio Files. > >Webcasts in the month of June will cover features such as the >digital recorder, Bookmarks and the Menus. >We expect All presentations to last less than an hour, and all >webcasts will start at 12:00 PM ET (11:00 Central, 10:00 Mountain, >9:00 Pacific Time). >Space is limited. If you wish to participate in any of these >presentations, please send an e-mail message to Maria Delgado at > > mdelgado at aph.org. >Please include the name of the presentation(s) you wish to attend. > >Pamela Rader >APH Product Support Specialist > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed May 5 17:44:06 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 10:44:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots In-Reply-To: <222458FBD1A24A4E9F1133DD865842DC@melissa> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <006b01caea78$da7869a0$8f693ce0$@org> <222458FBD1A24A4E9F1133DD865842DC@melissa> Message-ID: Hello all, Just my little bit on the topic: I tend to subscribe to the idea that one is best served to know where they came from if they are to know where they are going. this said, it is always good to make one's self aware of their past. For myself as a member of the african- American community, Disabled community, and blind community; I feel like there's alot to learn as history goes because we are always building on that history. I find that the history of our movement in the NFB is something very much multi-layered and thought provoking and I would suggest that one takes a moment or a few hours and look into it. yet, looking into it isn't enough. I would suggest that one looks at events and asks themselves how they feel about what they are reading and if they agree or disagree with what is being presented to them. I'll take it a little further if you will allow, and encourage thos who are interested in exploring their respective ethnic histories and even disability history, because one thing that I tend to not hear amungst my friends who are blind (within the NFB and outside of it) is an understanding of the greater disability movement. While it is true that we should focus on our history to a certain degree, I would also respectfully put out there that we may do well to understand the struggles of the greater disability community; as it seems to me that we in general share a common misunderstanding from the "able- bodied" community as it relates to an understand of what we can and can't do. as people in the disability community, we all consider ourselves as normal as normalgoes, and believe it is respectible to be disabled. to close back on topic; we as a movement can benifit if we tried to understand the progress we've made and the possibilities that are yet to be discovered. This I believe (in my opinion) can be done if the generational gap is bridged. to Understand the struggles our elders have made is as equilly key as understanding the concerns and issues the youth in the movement face. if we take the time to understand and validate the fears and concerns, we'll find more common ground- maybe? Best, Darian On 5/3/10, Melissa Green wrote: > I like that. > Raising up new giants. You are also correct. No minority has done it > alone. > Finally, there have been and still are many sighted people that work to make > our movement a success. That should be pointed out. Not all sighted people > are against us. > > Melissa Green > No person has the right to rain on your dreams. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maryann Migliorelli" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > >> Greetings Briley, >> Bravo for you!!! Very well said!!! >> >> I would advise that you get the audio copy of "The mana and the movement" >> when you can, especially if you can get the one with the original speeches >> included. It's a long read but definitely worth the time and attention. >> >> It always amazes me to hear blind people say that they "did it all on >> their >> own." Our history is different in situations but not in the nature from >> many other civil rights minorities. None of us have done it alone. We >> all >> stand on the shoulders of some pretty incredible giants who have helped to >> pave the way for us, and, hopefully, we will all work to raise up new >> giants >> to continue moving our cause forward. >> >> Regards, >> Maryann Migliorelli >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > $653/Month for $150,000 Mortgage! > Free Quotes. No SSN or Credit Check. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bdfb22676a052ea40cst05duc > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 5 17:52:29 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 13:52:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site References: <31604B066BE04C06BDC30BD33A4552B0@Gateway> Message-ID: <80D240013098425993715174537CC553@Ashley> Jen, Linked in is free like other social network sites. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jennifer Aberdeen" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the linked in site > It's not free. > > I Don't think you can really use it unless you pay, but maybe there's > something I don't know :) > > Jen > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 5 17:56:37 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 13:56:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site References: <423930.91329.qm@web30901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6090BFEE4B0B447D9A150A3402D4F472@Ashley> William, What groups do you look for? I added the career network ministry i joined. But since I am not employed I wasn't sure what groups to look for and add other than my school. What type of people are in your network? ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] the linked in site It is a good sight. I have used it and found it a success. I networked and found one who has needed people to promote an organization. In fact, I have been working for some time with them to help improve there website and have developed a great relationship with the company. In essence, Linkedin is a good sight, it helps those connect and it helps with connecting like-minded individuals. Hope this helps --- On Tue, 5/4/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Subject: [nabs-l] the linked in site > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:06 PM > Hi All, > > Since I'm job searching now, since I have my BA now, I > joined the network linked in to network. If you used > and joined groups on www.linkedin.com how is it? Is it > real accessible? So far it seems more straight forward > than other social network sites i saw. What benefits > are there to this? This online discussion stuff is new > to me. I hope it helps me network and get employment. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Wed May 5 18:47:33 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 12:47:33 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Check out this article Message-ID: <8531A1D0FE2C4579B31CC3459F009419@azizaLatD430> A former summer student's mom wrote this article, check it out. http://cfgrassman.wordpress.com/.../bullies-from-playground-to-school-administration/ From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Wed May 5 23:19:06 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:19:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! ~jEWEL On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: > >> >>---------- >>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>To: Danielsen, Chris >>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >> >>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, >>in case you didn't, here it is. We've been >>asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended for >>a one-stop resource for locating described >>movies on DVD, and so now we've made >>one. Please share far and wide as you see fit. >> >>Best, >>Mary >>*** >> >>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the >>Descriptive Video Service (DVS®) has debuted two >>new online resources today for fans of described >>movies. Both can be reached via a new, >>easy-to-remember Web site address: www.describedmovies.org >> >>1. DVS on DVD >>This page of our site has been updated to enable >>description fans to learn about mainstream DVD >>and Blu-ray discs that are available with audio >>description, and provides a Amazon click through >>option which takes you directly to the page of >>amazon.com to order the disc. The DVD and >>Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available >>wherever discs are sold (online and in stores), >>however clicking through our site to purchase >>your movies will provide the Media Access Group >>with a small percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our >> efforts. >> >>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal >>Pictures Home Entertainment, starring Meryl >>Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is the >>most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >> >>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>This page lists every movie we've described for >>television, cable, DVS Home Video and DVS >>Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS >>debuted as a service in 1990. We're at nearly >>800 films! The list is sortable by movie title >>or distributor (the company for which we >>originally described the film). Ask for >>described versions of movies from your >>television, cable or satellite provider, from >>movies by mail services and from Web sites which >>offer streaming or downloadable movies. >> >>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>information about movies offered with >>description in theaters equipped with Motion >>Picture Access systems. And try >>www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip >>code, set the search filter for DVS and find the >>equipped theaters, described movies and accessible showtimes near you. >> >>We like hearing from you, so please let us know >>what you think, and if you have suggestions for making our pages more >> helpful. >> >>Thank you. >> >>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>Boston – Los Angeles >>access.wgbh.org >>617 300-3700 >>access at wgbh.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From info at michaelhingson.com Thu May 6 00:29:25 2010 From: info at michaelhingson.com (Michael Hingson) Date: Wed, 05 May 2010 19:29:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile At NFB National Convention Message-ID: Hello everyone, Once again this year the NFB and The Michael Hingson Group, Inc. will be selling the KnfbReader Mobile at our National convention. We want to help you with your purchase should you wish to buy a Reader at the convention. First, we will have plenty of KnfbReader Mobile systems available with either the Nokia N82 or the N86 hardware. Second, all systems will be configured and ready to activate. We will be happy to activate software for you in the exhibit hall when you purchase your KnfbReader Mobile. Third, once again we shall be utilizing the NFB %3 low interest technology loan as a way to help you buy a KnfbReader Mobile should you not wish to use cash or a credit card to make your purchase directly at the convention. Unfortunately, it will be difficult to approve and fund loans at the convention. The chair of the Loan Fund committee has told me that due to time constraints the committee will not be able to meet and approve loans during the convention. If you may be planning on using the loan fund to purchase a KnfbReader at the convention I would like to urge you to complete an application now rather than waiting until July. If your application is approved you can simply order the Reader from us for delivery at the convention which will save shipping charges. A link to the online loan application is available at http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com near the bottom of the page. In the field asking for the name of your dealer simply enter the words "NFB convention" should you plan to pick up your Reader at the convention. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of completing the application now should you wish to use the loan fund to purchase a KnfbReader Mobile. Curtis Chong, chair of the Loan Fund Committee tells me that any applications completed by late May should be funded by the convention. The sooner you complete the application the faster your loan will be completed. We cannot provide Readers to anyone who has not gone through the entire loan process and had their loan funded. We shall be ready to help anyone complete an application at the convention, but there will be a delay in you receiving your KnfbReader Mobile. Fourth, we will again be ready to answer any support questions of current users as well as helping you with any issues you may have. Representatives of KNFB Technologies will also be on hand to answer your questions. Finally, we are presently working on having a Reader users meeting sometime early in the convention. More details will follow on this when they become available. If anyone has any questions or wishes more information about the Reader please call me at (415) 827-4084 or email me at info at michaelhingson.com. Please tell your friends and anyone you know about how they can see this great technology at the NFB convention. All of us on the KnfbReader team look forward to serving you. Thank you for your support. Best, Michael Hingson The Michael Hingson Group, INC. "Speaking with Vision" Michael Hingson, President (415) 827-4084 info at michaelhingson.com www.michaelhingson.com for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit: http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com http://michaelhingson.com/images/knfbReader-michael_hingson.jpg __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5089 (20100505) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From missheather at comcast.net Thu May 6 00:38:05 2010 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:38:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some time or other. Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, discipled personally by other members of the church. This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works there it is. I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of the organisation must be made in the social context in which it operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are worth considering. 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do volunteer work. 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less leisure time for social group involvement. 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the incredible advances in medical competence, the development of technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights movement which has put the disability community out of institutions and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer transportation assistance. 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the respectability of blindness are harder to influence. 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the western world are adults over 65 years of age. The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask yourself the hard questions. I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of groups like the NFB. 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to take on leadership positions. 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. Regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a whole. Thanks for your thoughts, Briley On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Briley, > > I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan > posts. > I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's > funny that > you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I > have to > contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our > generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is > almost > completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the > National > Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with > fundraising > and technological design that everyday philosophy has been > forgotten. It is > my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner > than the > engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 > years, > maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the > source, are > you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of > entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and > our purpose as an organization will better define that line > between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom > much is given, much is required, and I think people all too > often forget that. > > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that > our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is > what we had to fight for! >> >> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, > but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever > be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some > stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement > attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to > be in the real world. >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>> Good afternoon all, >>> >>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel > is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a > movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly > didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago > when I began digging a little deeper. >>> >>> The federation has always been an important force in my > life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during > the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard > about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits > of information at state conventions or national events. But > most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is > understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the > obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily > basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, > life events have spurred me on to discover more about our > roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has > a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>> >>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved > with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently > realized his need for further training, and that lead him to > ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me > questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy > developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. > I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was > disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. > Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, > and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but > beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely > limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the > organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm > on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me > after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We > have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots > are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't > exist. >>> >>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done > an amazing job of making our history available to us. > www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the > parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are > available online going back 25 years, and important speeches > are available in both text and recorded form going back before > that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that > blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it > took to get out there every day and command respect from a > sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>> >>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization > accuse the older generation of the federation of being too > "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree > with how the older generation has approached some issues, when > you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to > be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a > greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a > long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I > think we've lost respect for our past. >>> >>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the > beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 > years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really > understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my > share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But > I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not > just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even > before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world > where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No > organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we > must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built > upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind > people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness > should not limit our life choices. >>> >>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our > history. We will all be better for it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Briley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Thu May 6 04:46:15 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 23:46:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors Message-ID: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com> Hi, For a while know I've been bouncing around ideas of things i would like to do as a carreer when i finish my gen ed classes, and while i find a lot of things interesting, i keep coming back to the thought of, "I'd really like to work with animals". Ever since i was seven i've wanted to become a veterinarian...that is until someone told me, when i was thirteen, "well, i wouldn't take my dogs to you". surprisingly, this wasn't a sighted person who told me this. Well, i ran across an article somewhere about a blind guy who got his M.D, and it got me thinking, why coudln't I be a vet? Even if there aren't a bunch of blind doctors, at least there are some. I think on the side, i'd like to become a certified dog trainer as well. So, what i want, all steriotyping aside, is to become a certified obedienace dog trainer, and if i can maybe train some sort of service dog like search and rescue or therapy dogs. As well as, train to become a vet tech, and if i really like what i do, advance my schooling to become a full fledged vet. My questions are: 1. What do you think of these jobs for a blind person? 2. Does anyone know of anyone who could help me overcome any sort of obsticles that i could come up against in getting these jobs? and 3. i guess this goes along with question 2, but is there anyone who's working for an M.D and would you be willing to email me off list or something so that i can pick your brain about how you got through, or are getting through, it? From marrie12 at gmail.com Thu May 6 15:31:23 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 08:31:23 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors In-Reply-To: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com> References: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4FBFDC97-6CF2-498D-9DDD-BEC52A5322E9@gmail.com> I might suggest talking to a guide dog school if you want to maybe train service animals or at least talk to them to see if you can intern there when it comes time. That's all I can help you with but good luck with your endeavors. On May 5, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > Hi, > > For a while know I've been bouncing around ideas of things i would like to do as a carreer when i finish my gen ed classes, and while i find a lot of things interesting, i keep coming back to the thought of, "I'd really like to work with animals". > > Ever since i was seven i've wanted to become a veterinarian...that is until someone told me, when i was thirteen, "well, i wouldn't take my dogs to you". surprisingly, this wasn't a sighted person who told me this. > > Well, i ran across an article somewhere about a blind guy who got his M.D, and it got me thinking, why coudln't I be a vet? Even if there aren't a bunch of blind doctors, at least there are some. > I think on the side, i'd like to become a certified dog trainer as well. > > So, what i want, all steriotyping aside, is to become a certified obedienace dog trainer, and if i can maybe train some sort of service dog like search and rescue or therapy dogs. > > As well as, train to become a vet tech, and if i really like what i do, advance my schooling to become a full fledged vet. > > My questions are: > 1. What do you think of these jobs for a blind person? > 2. Does anyone know of anyone who could help me overcome any sort of obsticles that i could come up against in getting these jobs? > and > 3. i guess this goes along with question 2, but is there anyone who's working for an M.D and would you be willing to email me off list or something so that i can pick your brain about how you got through, or are getting through, it? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu May 6 14:57:00 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 10:57:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Talks versus Mobile Speak Message-ID: <608AACA8-8E84-4FF9-85A4-5FFFDC6769C1@mac.com> Hello all. I've decided to drop the KNFB reader classic and fine some way to get the new KNFB-Reader Mobile. My question has 2 parts. Firstly: which screen reading software is better? Mobile Speak or Talks? Also, when you get your Nokia device, with Talks/Mobile Speak, can you still use the callendar, notes/wifi function without a plan? What things can you not use without a plan? Thanks. Jorge From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu May 6 18:51:22 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 14:51:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac Speech Scribe Message-ID: Hello NABS members: I had a quick question about a software that I want to run on my computer. I have just got my review copy of Mac Speech's Scribe program. For those of you who don't know, its a program that allows you to set it up so you can dictate emails and documents with your voice for the Macintosh system. However, based on previous experiences with the company, the set up menu is not that Voice-Over friendly, and I'm not sure how to set it up using Voice Over, so I was wondering if any of you knew anything about this and how to set it up using Voice Over. Thanks. Jorge From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu May 6 12:41:12 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 06:41:12 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] your help is needed Message-ID: Greetings: We are interested in talking to any blind/visually impaired college students who wish or plan to go to law school and who will be taking the Law School Admissions Test (LSAT). However, our needs are even more specific than that. The student needs to be a California resident and planning to attend a California law school. Secondarily, we would like to talk to students who may not be a California resident but do wish/plan to attend a California law school. Please contact me at the below information. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu May 6 13:59:01 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 09:59:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video Message-ID: Thanks Jewls. Very cool. Jorge From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Thu May 6 14:17:02 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 07:17:02 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 Message-ID: Greetings fellow students! The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner (president NFB of Utah and board member of the national Federation of the Blind) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there promises to be something for you! Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter and to your locally moderated list serve for more information regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! Wishing you the best in your finals, The Nabs membership committee. -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 7 03:18:42 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 22:18:42 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?_Statement_of_Daniel_Goldstein=2C_Before_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?Congress=2C_Achieving_the_Promise_of__the_Americans_with_D?= =?iso-8859-1?q?isabilities_Act_in_the_Digital_Age_=96_Current_Issues=2C_C?= =?iso-8859-1?q?hallenges=2C_and_Opportunities?= Message-ID: Statement of Daniel F. Goldstein, Esq. Partner, Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Before the United States House Committee on the Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties on Achieving the Promise of the Americans with Disabilities Act in the Digital Age – Current Issues, Challenges, and Opportunities Thursday April 22, 2010 Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me here today. As a partner in the Baltimore, Maryland law firm of Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP, I have been engaged in disability rights law, principally on behalf of the National Federation of the Blind (“NFB”), since 1986. In 1999, the NFB asked me to assist it in devising a strategy to promote the accessibility of digital information through education, negotiation and litigation. I have devoted much of the last 11 years to that effort. The ADA has played a valuable role in that undertaking, as we have worked to make websites, workplace software applications, ATMs, voting machines, cell phones and e-book reading devices accessible to people with vision and print disabilities. The challenge is immense. Digital information is everywhere, from consumer electronics and home appliances to the internet, computer screens and mobile devices to ticket kiosks and ATMs. It is difficult to identify an activity in modern American life in which digital information does not play a role. Because digital information is composed of zeros and ones, it is not inherently visual, aural or tactile but can be presented in any one or all of those modes with equivalent facility. Thus, the ubiquitous use of digital information should be great news for those who cannot access print because of a disability – whether it’s a vision disability, a learning disability, an intellectual disability, or a manual impairment or spinal cord injury. Similarly, digital information that was traditionally presented as speech can now produce mainstream accessibility for those with hearing impairments. Sadly, however, the potential for the disability community to have mainstream and therefore equal access has not been realized. So much electronic information is presented so that it is accessible only to one sense, resulting in persons with disabilities having unequal access and therefore being denied the opportunity for equal participation in all spheres of life. Thus, to give you a homely example, something as simple as setting the thermostat in one’s house, which a blind person could formerly do by adding tactile markings to the dial that controlled the thermostat, is now an inaccessible activity. Even though digital temperature controls could communicate both visually and audibly, most provide only visual information, leaving blind people worse off than before. A. The ADA and Public Accommodation Websites The ADA is key to unlocking these doors. Title III of the ADA applies to public accommodations, defined as 12 categories of commercial entities that interact with the public. We believe both the intent and the language of the ADA cover websites and other digital information and services provided by those covered entities, regardless of whether those entities also operate brick-and-mortar locations. In 1999, on behalf of the NFB, I filed suit in federal court in Massachusetts against America Online for violating Title III of the ADA by failing to make its service accessible to the blind. The First Circuit had held in the context of insurance services that a public accommodation may be covered under Title III of the ADA without the activity being linked to a physical place of public accommodation. We were anxious to follow that case law to its logical conclusion that websites that offer the services of a public accommodation, as delineated in Title III, are likewise covered by the ADA. However, AOL quickly decided to make its website fully accessible, so the matter was settled without creating any judicial precedent. In 2006, we filed suit against the Target Corporation over the inaccessibility of its website. After the federal court in San Francisco ruled that the portions of the website that had a nexus to the physical stores were covered by the ADA,[1] Target settled and has since made its website fully accessible.[2] Opponents of the application of Title III to commercial and educational websites might argue that some federal case law supports the proposition that e-commerce is outside the scope of the ADA. There is a line of reasoning adopted in some circuits that a place of public accommodation, within the meaning of Title III, must be an “actual, physical” place.[3] These courts have held that to state a claim under Title III, the plaintiff must allege either that there has been discrimination in a physical place, or that there is a “nexus” between the challenged act of discrimination and a physical place of public accommodation. This approach stands in stark contrast to the more commonsense view adopted by several other circuits that the phrase “public accommodation” encompasses more than just physical structures.[4] Most cases addressing the “place” argument have been in the context of insurance, considering whether the ADA’s non-discrimination requirements govern the substance of insurance policies. None of the circuit courts adopting the “physical place” line of reasoning have addressed the precise question of whether public accommodations that operate through the internet or its websites are places of public accommodation under Title III. So we do not currently know what conclusion these circuits would reach on that issue. In today’s increasingly online society, limiting the ADA (or any civil rights law) to only those businesses that operate in physical facilities would undermine the fundamental goals of civil rights. Given that one of the essential purposes of Title III is to eliminate discrimination against people with disabilities in the basic, day-to-day activities that are a fundamental part of living and functioning in a community, it is hard to imagine that coverage would depend on whether a covered entity offers its services and goods in a physical location, door-to-door, by phone, or online. In an age where hundreds of millions of Americans are increasingly using the internet every day to shop for groceries, plan their travel, conduct business, do their banking, attend college classes, and socialize with friends and family, it is undeniable that these websites are an indispensable part of basic, day-to-day life in the community. Despite this obvious reality of life in the internet era, one district court, in Access Now v. Southwest Airlines Co. has erroneously extended the “physical place” line of reasoning to conclude that it would not apply Title III to prohibit discriminatory access to Southwest’s website where the plaintiff had failed to allege a “nexus” between the site and a physical, brick-and-mortar place.[5] I have no doubt that the district court’s interpretation of Title III in the Southwest case was incorrect, and that a federal Court of Appeals squarely presented with the issue should reach the conclusion that Title III applies to goods and services provided over the internet. But the fact that the district court strayed so far from Title III’s fundamental purpose was troubling, and is one of the reasons that I applaud the Committee’s decision to hold this hearing. In light of Assistant Attorney General Perez’s affirmation last week that the Department of Justice continues to believe that public accommodations are covered by Title III even when they reach the public only via websites, it seems to me that the time has come to test this proposition in the courts as well as through the development of regulations by the Department of Justice. Court cases aside, in the years since the internet has become a mainstay of American life, some advocates and covered entities have reached agreements about accessibility of internet sites. Among the websites that have reached such agreements, variously, with the NFB, the American Council of the Blind and the New York and Massachusetts Offices of Attorney General are: Amazon.com, Apple’s iTunes, Major League Baseball, CVS, Radio Shack, Rite Aid, Staples, Ramada Hotels, and Priceline.com. Other companies with commercial websites have reached out proactively to secure certification from the NFB that their websites are accessible, including both large companies like G.E. and NewEgg and small businesses like my law firm. These agreements and the Target case have had a positive impact in increasing website accessibility across the commercial industry. A study of the top thirty-two online retailers’ websites that analyzed the websites’ accessibility one year before the Target decision and one year following the decision found a significant improvement in overall accessibility.[6] Using the standards and tools provided by the ADA, we are seeing voice-guided ATMs and Accessible Point-of-Sale Machines. In the case of the former, with the recent announcement by Bank of America that all of its ATMs now have voice-guidance and my settlement with the largest nonbank deployer of ATMs, Cardtronics, inaccessible ATMs are becoming the exception rather than the rule. ATMs, however, provide an important lesson. The technology to make ATMs accessible is older than the technology to make ATMs and the additional cost of accessibility in manufacturing and deploying ATMs is marginal. However, delay by banks and other deployers of ATMs to comply with the ADA until the national fleet of ATMs was mature led to a tremendous and unnecessary increase in costs in retrofitting or replacing functioning inaccessible ATMs. It also needlessly delayed the blind from having this convenience that so many rely on. When new technologies find acceptance in the marketplace, their adoption and improvement often occurs with dizzying speed. When accessibility is not built in from the outset, however, the disability community suffers significant competitive disadvantages whose later correction may come only as that technology is being replaced by something newer or better. When a Microsoft offers first Windows Vista and then Windows 7 that were accessible from the day each went on the market, or Apple develops, as it has, a technology that allows the controls of its iPad to be accessible to the blind, this is cause for celebration. The list of other technologies that have been accessible from their entry into the market, however, remains far too short. Gratuitous barriers to accessibility are still the rule, not the exception. Improved clarity about the application of the ADA to public accommodations operating over the internet will help. As is demonstrated by the experience of educational institutions, once the purchasers of technology understand their obligations and insist on accessibility by their suppliers, accessibility becomes mainstreamed. B. Inaccessible Digital Information in Education Nowhere is the impact of digital information felt more than in the field of education. The impact is pronounced here, perhaps more than in any other sphere because digital information and electronic technology have the potential to change the game for students with print disabilities. However, educational institutions are not meeting that potential. For example, a 2008 study that examined the accessibility of postsecondary education web pages found that 97% of the institutions in its sample contained significant accessibility barriers.[7] The study examined only top or home pages of university websites, suggesting that the significant barriers are even more deeply entrenched than indicated by the study. That the vast majority of educational institutions fail to recognize their obligations under the ADA to make their website information accessible is only the tip of the iceberg. Reliance on online education is steeply increasing, with online enrollments growing substantially faster than overall higher education enrollments in the past six years.[8] Meanwhile, digital books, course management systems, and other educational technologies have become an integral part of post-secondary education. Many of these technologies are completely – and gratuitously – inaccessible to students and others with print disabilities. While universities and institutions have often failed to appreciate their obligations under the ADA and their commercial power as consumers of educational technology, some positive examples of success demonstrate the kind of impact institutions can have if their obligations under the ADA are made clear and enforceable. i. Universities and Amazon’s Kindle DX In February 2009, the Kindle 2 was introduced with a read-out-loud feature, but with on-screen navigation that was not voiced and was therefore inaccessible to the blind. The Association of American Publishers and the Authors Guild sought to have Amazon terminate this feature. In response, the Reading Rights Coalition was formed, thirty-two nonprofits representing the print-disability community­including, among others, the blind, people with dyslexia and other learning disabilities, those with cerebral palsy, and those with upper spinal cord injuries. The Coalition worked on one hand to protect the inclusion of Text-to-Speech while fighting to have Amazon allow its menus to talk and thus make the device accessible. In May 2009, Amazon announced the launch of its Kindle DX e-book reader, which it had designed for educational use. Because Amazon failed to include accessible navigational controls, the device was inaccessible to the blind. Six colleges and universities simultaneously announced they would be deploying the Kindle DX during the 2009 – 2010 academic year. The National Federation of the Blind and the American Council of the Blind filed a complaint in federal court against Arizona State University and filed complaints with the Department of Justice and Department of Education against the remaining schools (Pace University, Case Western Reserve University, Reed College, Princeton University, and the University of Virginia’s Darden School of Business). These complaints alleged that by deploying the inaccessible Kindle, the colleges and universities violated their obligations under Titles II and III of the ADA to provide equal access to their services. While sighted students would benefit from the instant access, notetaking, and other services of the Kindle, blind students would be left behind, forced to rely on separate methods of access that are significantly inferior to even the print textbook experience. The complaint against the University of Virginia is still pending with the Department of Education, but the NFB, the ACB and the Department of Justice secured settlements with the other five schools under which those schools agreed, after the end of this semester, not to deploy inaccessible e-book readers. While those complaints were pending, other universities stepped forward to publicly pledge they would not adopt e-book technologies on their campus – including the Kindle – unless and until they were accessible. Those universities included Syracuse University, the University of Wisconsin and the University of Illinois. In response to this pressure, Amazon announced that it would release a fully accessible Kindle in the summer of 2010. And on March 9, 2010, the Reading Rights Coalition, the Association of American Publishers and the Authors Guild issued a joint statement, released on the White House blog, supporting mainstream accessibility when books are issued in formats other than print, such as e-books and audio books.[9] ii. Libraries and Adobe Digital Editions Adobe Digital Editions is the leading commercial e-book format used by libraries and also the format that can be read on the inaccessible Sony e-book reader. Until March 2009, Adobe e-books had been accessible to those who require speech to access text and who downloaded those books to a PC. In March 2009, however, Adobe stopped support of that accessible system and switched to a new, inaccessible e-book platform, called Adobe Digital Editions. As a result, numerous public library patrons with disabilities could no longer access their libraries’ digital collections. Advocacy from the Burton Blatt Institute and the Reading Rights Coalition prompted the American Library Association to adopt a resolution strongly recommending that libraries ensure that all electronic resources they procure are accessible to people with disabilities.[10] Shortly thereafter, the Los Angeles Public Library, responding to a letter from the Reading Rights Coalition, agreed to suspend future procurement of Adobe Digital Editions books until they are fully accessible.[11] In response, Adobe announced that it would release an accessible Adobe Digital Editions in 2010.[12] Thus, when institutional customers of technology, like libraries, act on their obligations under the ADA, the developers of those technologies find strong economic motivation to remove the barriers to accessibility. iii. California State University and BlackBoard California State University succeeded in moving one of the leading course-management software systems, BlackBoard Learn, toward accessibility. In the late-1990’s, the Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights launched an investigation into California State University campuses’ compliance with, among other statutes, Title II of the ADA. In response, the Cal State system revamped its approach to providing access to students with disabilities and has become a leader and model for educational institutions to follow. Specifically, rather than delegating accessibility obligations to an isolated Disability Student Services office, as most universities do, Cal State established a system-wide, coordinated approach to accessibility. Under this approach, accessibility experts work closely with the University’s information officers to ensure that the technology the university employs is accessible. Through this arrangement, Cal State requires that new technologies it procures be accessible to its students. When Cal State put out a request for proposals for new course management software, it turned down BlackBoard – the leading purveyor of course management software – because it did not meet Cal State’s accessibility requirements. Since that time, BlackBoard has issued two new releases of its software that greatly enhance its accessibility.[13] C. The Next Steps to Access to Technology We are not even halfway there on making the internet accessible and in making accessible the technologies used in the workplace and offered through public accommodations, like educational institutions. And, of course, new technologies continue to develop and flourish with astonishing speed. The barriers to accessibility, however, are not the result, for the most part, of intractable technological issues and need not (and as a practical matter, would not) slow down innovation. The biggest contributor to the growing accessibility gap continues to be a lack of commitment to making technology accessible. The ADA was a tremendous normative statement of the importance we attach as a nation to equal opportunity without regard to disability. But while the disability community has the responsibility to use the ADA and the other tools offered by federal and state laws, government must continue to make clear its commitment to that promise as well. The National Broadband Plan, for example, states as one of its goals that “every American should have affordable access to robust broadband service, and the means and skills to subscribe if they so choose.”[14] It envisions, among other things “improvements in public education through e-learning and online content” and improvements in health care through the expansion of “e-care.”[15] Without concrete steps to build in accessibility at every stage and level, this promise to “every American” will not be realized. Recognizing this, the National Broadband Plan specifically states that “hardware, software, services and digital content must be accessible and assistive technologies must be affordable.”[16] The Plan calls on the federal government to be a model of accessibility, to specifically support innovation in accessibility, and to clarify and modernize its accessibility laws, enforcement efforts, and subsidy programs. In that respect, the federal government has a long way to go, as it has failed to monitor and enforce the provisions of Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. The National Education Technology Plan, currently in draft form, addresses to some degree the need for Education Technology to be designed for mainstream accessibility for those with disabilities and we hope the final draft will be more robust. However, recent draft rules regarding Health Information Technology fail to wholeheartedly incorporate accessibility. Again, the federal government must make sure that the execution follows the good intentions. Our milestones under the ADA thus far have been significant, but we remain far behind where we ought to be in an era that relies so intrinsically upon digital information. The near future will only expedite the transition to digital information in critical sectors – including education, employment, health care, commerce and social life. If we do not ensure that people with disabilities have equal access to digital information, they face exclusion from participation in our society. The commitment we have already seen from the Department of Justice will take us nearer that goal. The Department of Education, Department of Health and Human Services, General Services Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and others have important opportunities to advance accessible technology as well. There are good reasons to believe that the disability community, acting for itself and with the support of governmental entities, can make great strides toward the day that it no longer must settle for separate and unequal access to technology, but will have, instead, the same access to mainstream technology and thus an equal opportunity to participate in the educational, economic and social life of this country. Thank you [1] Nat’l Fed’n of the Blind v. Target Corp., 452 F.Supp.2d 946 (N.D. Cal 2006). [2] Nat’l Fed’n of the Blind, v. Target Corp., No. 3:06-cv-01802-MHP Doc. 210 (N.D. Cal. Mar. 9, 2008) (final judgment and order approving settlement and dismissing claims). [3] See Weyer v. Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp., 198 F.3d 1104, 1114 (9th Cir. 2000) (concluding that places of public accommodation are “actual, physical places.”); see also Ford v. Schering-Plough Corp., 145 F.3d 601, 612–13 (3d Cir. 1998) (holding that plaintiff failed to allege a nexus between the place of public accommodation and the insurance benefits offered by the employer); Stoutenborough v. National Football League, 59 F.3d 580, 583–84 (6th Cir. 1995) (affirming the dismissal of a claim under Title III because the challenged service, the live telecast of a football game, was not offered by a place of public accommodation, the stadium). [4] See Carparts Distribution Ctr., Inc. v. Automotive Wholesalers Assoc. of New England, Inc., 37 F.3d 12, 19–20 (1st Cir. 1994) (holding that “public accommodations” encompasses more than actual physical structures and includes the defendant insurance company); Doe v. Mutual of Omaha Ins. Co., 179 F.3d 557, 559 (7th Cir. 1999) (noting that a “place of public accommodation” encompasses facilities open to the public in both physical and electronic space, including websites). [5] Access Now, Inc. v. Southwest Airlines Co., 227 F.Supp.2d 1312 (2002). On appeal, the 11th Circuit dismissed the appeal without reaching the merits of the case, so the 11th Circuit has not yet addressed the issue. See Access Now, Inc. v. Southwest Airlines Co., 385 F. 3d 1324 (11th Cir. 2004). [6] Jonathan Frank, "Web Accessibility for the Blind: Corporate Social Responsibility? or Litigation Avoidance?," pp.284, Proceedings of the 41st Annual Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences (HICSS 2008), 2008. [7] Project GOALS Evaluates 100 Pages in Higher Education for Accessibility Against Section 508 Standard, NCDAE Newsletter, April 2008. Retrieved: http://ncdae.org/community/newsletter/april2008/ [8] I. Elaine Allen and Jeff Seaman, Learning on Demand: Online Education in the United States, 2009, Babson Survey Research Group, January 2010. Retrieved at: http://www.sloan-c.org/publications/survey/pdf/learningondemand.pdf [9] http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/03/09/one-step-closer-full-access [10] Purchasing of Accessible Electronic Resources Resolution, American Library Association, July 15, 2009. Retrieved at: http://bbi.syr.edu/events/2009/docs/Purchasing_Accessible_ Electronic_Resources_Resolution_revised_52.doc. [11] Letter to Eve Hill from Martin Gomez, August 31, 2009. http://www.readingrights.org/477 [12] Bill McCoy, Adobe eBooks - Update on Accessibility Support, October 8, 2009. http://blogs.adobe.com/billmccoy/2009/10/adobe-ebooks--.html [13] National Federation of the Blind and Blackboard to Demonstrate New Accessibility Features at CSUN, March 25, 2010. http://www.nfb.org/nfb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=566 [14] http://www.broadband.gov/plan/executive-summary/ (“National Broadband Plan”). [15] Id. [16] National Broadband Plan at 181 (“Addressing Issues of Accessibility for Broadband Adoption and Utilization”). From minesm at me.com Fri May 7 04:22:49 2010 From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 22:22:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Mac Speech Scribe In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, just a few thoughts from me, you would probably be best to use a reader when trying to do this. That's what I found appears to work the best. Also as you can probably see my address in this e-mail perhaps we may wish to correspond off list does not too cluttered the list or others. I hope this helps you out Maurice minds. On May 6, 2010, at 12:51 PM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello NABS members: > > I had a quick question about a software that I want to run on my computer. > > > I have just got my review copy of Mac Speech's Scribe program. For those of you who don't know, its a program that allows you to set it up so you can dictate emails and documents with your voice for the Macintosh system. > However, based on previous experiences with the company, the set up menu is not that Voice-Over friendly, and I'm not sure how to set it up using Voice Over, so I was wondering if any of you knew anything about this and how to set it up using Voice Over. > > Thanks. > > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com From daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Fri May 7 04:31:24 2010 From: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com (Aziza Cano) Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 22:31:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: CABS Membership Meeting now Available Online! Message-ID: <36CDF9BABDCB4017B01EF9E47DDBFDDA@azizaLatD430> ----- Original Message ----- From: Angela Fowler To: daydreamingncolor at gmail.com Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:04 PM Subject: FW: CABS Membership Meeting now Available Online! Hey, can you put this on the NABS list? Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Angela Fowler [mailto:fowlers at syix.com] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:42 PM To: 'California Association of Blind Students Mailing List'; 'NFB of California List'; 'transition-council at googlegroups.com' Subject: CABS Membership Meeting now Available Online! Hello everyone: As you know, the California Association of Blind Students conducted an informative conference call last month in which we discussed NFB training centers. This call was recorded and is now available for download. Just visit http://www.nfbcal.org/cabs/recordings/ and click on Training Centers. If the file does not download, right click on the link and select Save Target As. I hope that you find this recording a useful and informative resource. sincerely, Angela Fowler (president) California Association of Blind Students From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 7 04:39:35 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 23:39:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] HumanWare Announces the BrailleNote Apex 18 Message-ID: >Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 11:24:31 -0400 >From: "Matthew Janusauskas" >Subject: [Bnannounce] HumanWare Announces the BrailleNote Apex 18 > >View this message in your browser > > > > > >HumanWare, the power is in your hands > > > > >HumanWare Announces the BrailleNote Apex 18 > >Longueuil, May 6, 2010 - HumanWare marks the 10th anniversary of the >BrailleNote by launching a new 18-cell version of the ultra-thin, >ultra-light BrailleNote Apex - a powerful notetaker designed for >students and professionals who are blind. > >Intelligent ergonomics is paramount in the design of the BrailleNote >Apex line and assures users with high performance, comfort and agility. >At only 2 cm (0.78") thick and weighing just 734 grams (1.8 lbs), the >BrailleNote Apex 18 is portable and affordable. The popular Apex full >sized Braille keyboard makes note taking quick and easy, while >HumanWare's signature thumb keys make extensive reading effortless. > > BrailleNote Apex 18 > >Student using a Braille Note Apex > > > > "HumanWare proudly supports Braille literacy and we are >committed to designing products that help blind people to fully >participate in the rapidly evolving, digital world. The affordable >BrailleNote Apex 18 extends the successful Apex line by continuing to >put digital communication at everyone's fingertips," says Gilles Pepin, >CEO of HumanWare > >The acclaimed KeySoft suite of applications, high computing power and >multiple storage options define the BrailleNote Apex 18's productivity. >Included are 8 GB of memory and support for high capacity SDHC cards, >four high-speed USB 2.0 ports, built-in Wi-Fi, Ethernet and Bluetooth. >Powerful specialized options include Sendero GPS, the Concise Oxford >Dictionary and Thesaurus, Nemeth Math Tutorial and many more tools that >help support student learning and continue to meet professional >expectations. > > > Orders are being taken now and the new BrailleNote Apex 18 will >begin shipping immediately through the sales locations provided below. >In addition, HumanWare's trade-in program has been extended for >BrailleNote Classic and mPower users. Do not delay in taking advantage >of this special program now. > >The new BrailleNote Apex 18 is the tenth note taking device in a line of >products that has been helping people who are blind since 2000. > >For the latest news and information about BrailleNote Apex, subscribe to >the BrailleNote Newswire visit www.humanware.com/apex > . > >About HumanWare > >HumanWare is the global leader in assistive technologies for the print >disabled. HumanWare offers a full range of low vision products including >the SmartView Synergy desktop video magnifier, the SmartView Pocket and >Versa handheld electronic magnifiers, and the myReader2, HumanWare's >unique "auto-reader." HumanWare's other innovative products include the >BrailleNote Apex, the leading productivity device for the blind in >education, business and for personal use; the Victor Reader Stream, and >other world leading digital audio book players; the ClassMate Reader, >the only portable book player to offer synchronized text and audio for >struggling readers, and the Breeze, a unique all-in-one talking GPS. > >For more information about these or other HumanWare products, please >contact us: > >Australia/Asia >Tel: +61 2 9686 2600 >Email: au.sales at humanware.com > >Canada >call toll free: 1-888-723-7273 >Email: ca.info at humanware.com > >UK/Europe >Tel: +44 1933 415 800 >Email: eu.info at humanware.com > >U.S.A >call toll free 1-800-722-3393 or (925) 680-7100 >Email: us.info at humanware.com > >Media contact: >Nicolas Lagace >Tel.: (450) 463-1717 >E-mail: nicolas.lagace at humanware.com > > > > > > >(c)2010 HumanWare. Unsubscribe > from this >newsletter. From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 7 04:46:54 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 23:46:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] ID Mate Omni Bar Code Reader for Sale Message-ID: >From: Tai Blas > >I have an I.D. Mate Omni bar code reader for sale on Ebay. The listing >can be found at: > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130388527770&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT > >The unit includes battery, AC charger, complact flash card and >database, bar code reader unit, a neckstrap, and extra labels which >can be affixed to anything you wish to identify. This product is >manufactured by En-Vision America. It has a database of millions of >items which it can identify. Preparation or use instructions are >included in the database for many products. The starting bid is $500 >and the buy it now price is $650. This is less expensive than new >units sold by En-Vision America. Please contact Tai Blas at >taiablas at gmail.com or call 515-710-4402 From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 7 04:59:07 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 23:59:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Colton's Digital Braille Watch Message-ID: >From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" >To: 'National Federation of the Blind of Wisconsin News >List' , 'Wisconsin > Association of Blind Students List' , 'Blind > Talk Mailing List' > >Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 13:45:44 -0500 >Thread-Topic: Colton's Digital Braille Watch >Thread-Index: AcrlpgCDVz+F2QHOQf+WYtOJRzZDrQG2OJ7wAACuzkAAABVP8AAAEikw >Subject: [Blindtlk] FW: Colton's Digital Braille Watch > >I am sending the following survey from the engineering students at >UW Madison who are working on a Digital Braille Watch invention. >They would very much appreciate as many answers to the questions as possible. >They are doing a presentation on the working prototype next week and >would like to use the answers at that time (no names necessary). >To see the attached survey, just click on the link below. >Thanks so much! > > >http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KX52NTJ > > >Holly Albrecht, From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri May 7 06:15:10 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 01:15:10 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors In-Reply-To: <4FBFDC97-6CF2-498D-9DDD-BEC52A5322E9@gmail.com> References: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com> <4FBFDC97-6CF2-498D-9DDD-BEC52A5322E9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <347BBBAE-959B-4301-8D6F-C572C69F2F03@gmail.com> As i'm not opposed to training guide dogs, i don't want to give off the impression that, I'm blind so i want to train guide dogs. That's like, when i tell people i have a boxer, most first responces are, "is it a guide dog?" It's a ligit question, but it's like people expect that if you have a dog or work with dogs, it's a guide dog because you're blind. Like i said, i'm not opposed to guide dog training, and on that note, i remember being at the CCB and a guide dog rep came to the center to talk to us, and someone asked if blind people could train guide dogs. They said no. My guesss was that you're training a dog to do something that you can't, so i can sort of see their point in that respect. Perhaps things have changed over the past few years, and i will try to talk to them again. If nothing else, it will give me some practice training dogs. On May 6, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > I might suggest talking to a guide dog school if you want to maybe train service animals or at least talk to them to see if you can intern there when it comes time. > > That's all I can help you with but good luck with your endeavors. > On May 5, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> For a while know I've been bouncing around ideas of things i would like to do as a carreer when i finish my gen ed classes, and while i find a lot of things interesting, i keep coming back to the thought of, "I'd really like to work with animals". >> >> Ever since i was seven i've wanted to become a veterinarian...that is until someone told me, when i was thirteen, "well, i wouldn't take my dogs to you". surprisingly, this wasn't a sighted person who told me this. >> >> Well, i ran across an article somewhere about a blind guy who got his M.D, and it got me thinking, why coudln't I be a vet? Even if there aren't a bunch of blind doctors, at least there are some. >> I think on the side, i'd like to become a certified dog trainer as well. >> >> So, what i want, all steriotyping aside, is to become a certified obedienace dog trainer, and if i can maybe train some sort of service dog like search and rescue or therapy dogs. >> >> As well as, train to become a vet tech, and if i really like what i do, advance my schooling to become a full fledged vet. >> >> My questions are: >> 1. What do you think of these jobs for a blind person? >> 2. Does anyone know of anyone who could help me overcome any sort of obsticles that i could come up against in getting these jobs? >> and >> 3. i guess this goes along with question 2, but is there anyone who's working for an M.D and would you be willing to email me off list or something so that i can pick your brain about how you got through, or are getting through, it? >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Fri May 7 11:22:11 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 07:22:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions Message-ID: Hi: I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the list can help me with. First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live called Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but the bar is still open. I went tonight for the first time since he passed away. Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever had just hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try to sing kereoke and just being around people. There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke thing every week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have never gone to this by myself but have gone with friends and really enjoyed it also for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun entertainment away from my house. At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe there. I sit at the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The waitresses and bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make sure everything is all right. However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not really known there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually seated at a table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, but as soon as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin going to Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no problem, but how do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with me, but the bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to call a cab. Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I usually have the driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able to hear my phone. At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide me to the bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them call Crocketts and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to pick me up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at Crocketts. But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to leave do I somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the bathroom, where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to call me back? Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of unsafe. Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were from out of town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I could go with. Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let me know they are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? How do you guys handle this? I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by yourself but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure out this getting home part I'd be fine. Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the mall/movies Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would like to get something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then go to the movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and spread out. It is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and the theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place to the other? When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information desk and get assistance to the food court. When I have finished eating how do I figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie theaters? Do I just start wandering around and asking random people for directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance again at the movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. Yes, I am the same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been taught in cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national convention. However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and do regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask questions on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! Kerri From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Fri May 7 11:44:47 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 07:44:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors References: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com><4FBFDC97-6CF2-498D-9DDD-BEC52A5322E9@gmail.com> <347BBBAE-959B-4301-8D6F-C572C69F2F03@gmail.com> Message-ID: Just last week I heard a SeroTalk podcast about guide dogs. One of the panel participants, who is blind, trained her own guide dog. It is possible. http://serotalk.com/ I have a friend who is blind and is in a vet tech program, so I don't think your goals are unattainable. Good luck ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 2:15 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] blind doctors > As i'm not opposed to training guide dogs, i don't want to give off the > impression that, I'm blind so i want to train guide dogs. That's like, > when i tell people i have a boxer, most first responces are, "is it a > guide dog?" It's a ligit question, but it's like people expect that if > you have a dog or work with dogs, it's a guide dog because you're blind. > > Like i said, i'm not opposed to guide dog training, and on that note, i > remember being at the CCB and a guide dog rep came to the center to talk > to us, and someone asked if blind people could train guide dogs. They said > no. My guesss was that you're training a dog to do something that you > can't, so i can sort of see their point in that respect. > > Perhaps things have changed over the past few years, and i will try to > talk to them again. If nothing else, it will give me some practice > training dogs. > On May 6, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >> I might suggest talking to a guide dog school if you want to maybe train >> service animals or at least talk to them to see if you can intern there >> when it comes time. >> >> That's all I can help you with but good luck with your endeavors. >> On May 5, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> For a while know I've been bouncing around ideas of things i would like >>> to do as a carreer when i finish my gen ed classes, and while i find a >>> lot of things interesting, i keep coming back to the thought of, "I'd >>> really like to work with animals". >>> >>> Ever since i was seven i've wanted to become a veterinarian...that is >>> until someone told me, when i was thirteen, "well, i wouldn't take my >>> dogs to you". surprisingly, this wasn't a sighted person who told me >>> this. >>> >>> Well, i ran across an article somewhere about a blind guy who got his >>> M.D, and it got me thinking, why coudln't I be a vet? Even if there >>> aren't a bunch of blind doctors, at least there are some. >>> I think on the side, i'd like to become a certified dog trainer as well. >>> >>> So, what i want, all steriotyping aside, is to become a certified >>> obedienace dog trainer, and if i can maybe train some sort of service >>> dog like search and rescue or therapy dogs. >>> >>> As well as, train to become a vet tech, and if i really like what i do, >>> advance my schooling to become a full fledged vet. >>> >>> My questions are: >>> 1. What do you think of these jobs for a blind person? >>> 2. Does anyone know of anyone who could help me overcome any sort of >>> obsticles that i could come up against in getting these jobs? >>> and >>> 3. i guess this goes along with question 2, but is there anyone who's >>> working for an M.D and would you be willing to email me off list or >>> something so that i can pick your brain about how you got through, or >>> are getting through, it? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Fri May 7 13:46:38 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 06:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors In-Reply-To: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <517001.86972.qm@web30905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In all seriousness, I would pursue this outside America since the attitude and general paradigm shift is still negative and not in hour favor. There are many opportunities available now to travel abroad. A good resource to start with is www.miusa.org. Hope this helps. I can state that when I have either traveled abroad or met those who have come here from other countries, the attitude towards us as blind people was generally positive and open-minded towards a progressive mind-set. I am considering taking an MBA here and then using it to manage firms abroad since I plan on making a permanent move abroad. --- On Thu, 5/6/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: > From: Valerie Gibson > Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Thursday, May 6, 2010, 12:46 AM > Hi, > > For a while know I've been bouncing around ideas of things > i would like to do as a carreer when i finish my gen ed > classes, and while i find a lot of things interesting, i > keep coming back to the thought of, "I'd really like to work > with animals".  > > Ever since i was seven i've wanted to become a > veterinarian...that is until someone told me, when i was > thirteen, "well, i wouldn't take my dogs to you". > surprisingly, this wasn't a sighted person who told me > this. > > Well, i ran across an article somewhere about a blind guy > who got his M.D, and it got me thinking, why coudln't I be a > vet? Even if there aren't a bunch of blind doctors, at least > there are some. > I think on the side, i'd like to become a certified dog > trainer as well. > > So, what i want, all steriotyping aside, is to become a > certified obedienace dog trainer, and if i can maybe train > some sort of service dog like search and rescue or therapy > dogs. > > As well as, train to become a vet tech, and if i really > like what i do, advance my schooling to become a full > fledged vet. > > My questions are: > 1.  What do you think of these jobs for a blind > person? > 2.  Does anyone know of anyone who could help me > overcome any sort of obsticles that i could come up against > in getting these jobs? > and > 3.  i guess this goes along with question 2, but is > there anyone who's working for an M.D and would you be > willing to email me off list or something so that i can pick > your brain about how you got through, or are getting > through, it? > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From brileyp at gmail.com Fri May 7 14:08:56 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 09:08:56 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] blind doctors In-Reply-To: <347BBBAE-959B-4301-8D6F-C572C69F2F03@gmail.com> References: <75ADEE0E-50B2-4B7B-BCC1-8EA8ED7ACC5F@gmail.com> <4FBFDC97-6CF2-498D-9DDD-BEC52A5322E9@gmail.com> <347BBBAE-959B-4301-8D6F-C572C69F2F03@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7FC6E305-E3AA-4B8A-8D1D-7A31F6334CF4@gmail.com> That is a total misnomer about blind people training guide dogs. I know quite a few blind people who have owner trained their dogs. In a lot of ways, the attitude of a lot of guide dog schools is very custodial in a way. Blind people need to keep foraging forward in this area. They used to say the same thing about blind mobility instructors, but obviously, they work out great. As for you pursuing a vet degree, I say go for it. Of course there will be people who tell you you can't do it, but with some creativity and fortitude, you'll do great. Briley On May 7, 2010, at 1:15 AM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > As i'm not opposed to training guide dogs, i don't want to give off the impression that, I'm blind so i want to train guide dogs. That's like, when i tell people i have a boxer, most first responces are, "is it a guide dog?" It's a ligit question, but it's like people expect that if you have a dog or work with dogs, it's a guide dog because you're blind. > > Like i said, i'm not opposed to guide dog training, and on that note, i remember being at the CCB and a guide dog rep came to the center to talk to us, and someone asked if blind people could train guide dogs. They said no. My guesss was that you're training a dog to do something that you can't, so i can sort of see their point in that respect. > > Perhaps things have changed over the past few years, and i will try to talk to them again. If nothing else, it will give me some practice training dogs. > On May 6, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >> I might suggest talking to a guide dog school if you want to maybe train service animals or at least talk to them to see if you can intern there when it comes time. >> >> That's all I can help you with but good luck with your endeavors. >> On May 5, 2010, at 9:46 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> For a while know I've been bouncing around ideas of things i would like to do as a carreer when i finish my gen ed classes, and while i find a lot of things interesting, i keep coming back to the thought of, "I'd really like to work with animals". >>> >>> Ever since i was seven i've wanted to become a veterinarian...that is until someone told me, when i was thirteen, "well, i wouldn't take my dogs to you". surprisingly, this wasn't a sighted person who told me this. >>> >>> Well, i ran across an article somewhere about a blind guy who got his M.D, and it got me thinking, why coudln't I be a vet? Even if there aren't a bunch of blind doctors, at least there are some. >>> I think on the side, i'd like to become a certified dog trainer as well. >>> >>> So, what i want, all steriotyping aside, is to become a certified obedienace dog trainer, and if i can maybe train some sort of service dog like search and rescue or therapy dogs. >>> >>> As well as, train to become a vet tech, and if i really like what i do, advance my schooling to become a full fledged vet. >>> >>> My questions are: >>> 1. What do you think of these jobs for a blind person? >>> 2. Does anyone know of anyone who could help me overcome any sort of obsticles that i could come up against in getting these jobs? >>> and >>> 3. i guess this goes along with question 2, but is there anyone who's working for an M.D and would you be willing to email me off list or something so that i can pick your brain about how you got through, or are getting through, it? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Fri May 7 15:14:55 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 08:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <423359.57342.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You can do the following: [1]. go outside and call the cab, put the phone on vibrate to know when they call. [2]. Since you know the bar near home, do you know your way around? Why is one guiding you? Do you use a cane or dog? Before leaving, reserve a pick-up time for leaving and comeing home. --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > From: Kerri Kosten > Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:22 AM > Hi: > > I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the > list can > help me with. > > First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live > called > Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but > the bar is > still open. I went tonight for the first time since he > passed away. > Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever > had just > hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try > to sing > kereoke and just being around people. > > There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke > thing every > week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have > never gone to > this by myself but have gone with friends and really > enjoyed it also > for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun > entertainment away > from my house. > > At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe > there. I sit at > the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The > waitresses and > bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make > sure > everything is all right. > > However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not > really known > there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually > seated at a > table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, > but as soon > as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. > > Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin > going to > Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no > problem, but how > do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with > me, but the > bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to > call a cab. > Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I > usually have the > driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able > to hear my > phone. > > At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide > me to the > bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them > call Crocketts > and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to > pick me > up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at > Crocketts. > > But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to > leave do I > somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the > bathroom, > where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to > call me > back? > Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of > unsafe. > Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were > from out of > town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I > could go > with. > > Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let > me know they > are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? > How do you guys handle this? > > I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by > yourself > but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure > out this > getting home part I'd be fine. > > > Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the > mall/movies > Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would > like to get > something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then > go to the > movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and > spread out. It > is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and > the > theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place > to the > other? > > When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information > desk and > get assistance to the food court. When I have finished > eating how do I > figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie > theaters? > > Do I just start wandering around and asking random people > for > directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance > again at the > movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? > > Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. > Yes, I am the > same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been > taught in > cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national > convention. > However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and > do > regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask > questions > on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 7 15:49:15 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 08:49:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nabs-presidents] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Janice Jeang Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 19:47:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Nabs-presidents] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 To: List for NABS State Presidents , Arizona-students at nfbnet.org, cabs-talk , Colorado Students , Florida Students , Gabs at nfbnet.org, Illinois Students , Kansas Students , Kentucky Students , Louisiana Students , mabs at nfbnet.org, Minnesota Students , National Association of Blind Students mailing list , Nebraska , New Hampshire Students , New Jersey Students , New Mexico Association of Blind Students , nfb-hi , North Carolina Students , Oabs at nfbnet.org, tabs_students at googlegroups.com, Tennessee Students , Utah Students , Virginia Students Hello Presidents, The Membership Committee is also proud to announce that recordings of the conference call will be available for your listening pleasures, on the off chance that another engagement is going to take precedence this Mother's Day. We will announce the launch of the new NABS audio website shortly. However, for those who have even a little bit of time to share, we would greatly appreciate as many of you guys as possible, to come in and help answer questions. I have always felt that sharing with and learning from other members of my Federation family helps invigorate the lesson, causing them to stay with me. Please join us in passing Federation Philosophy along to others, as well as creating a useful audio document. Hope to see y'all on Sunday! 712.775.7100 code- 257963#. Best, Janice Jeang ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: ; "cabs-talk" ; "Colorado Students" ; "Florida Students" ; ; "Illinois Students" ; "Kansas Students" ; "Kentucky Students" ; "List for NABS State Presidents" ; "Louisiana Students" ; ; "Minnesota Students" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "Nebraska" ; "New Hampshire Students" ; "New Jersey Students" ; "New Mexico Association of Blind Students" ; "nfb-hi" ; "North Carolina Students" ; ; ; "Tennessee Students" ; "Utah Students" ; "Virginia Students" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 9:17 AM Subject: [Nabs-presidents] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 Greetings fellow students! The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner (president NFB of Utah and board member of the national Federation of the Blind) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there promises to be something for you! Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter and to your locally moderated list serve for more information regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! Wishing you the best in your finals, The Nabs membership committee. -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." _______________________________________________ Nabs-presidents mailing list Nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-presidents_nfbnet.org _______________________________________________ Nabs-presidents mailing list Nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-presidents_nfbnet.org -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Fri May 7 16:21:50 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 09:21:50 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: <423359.57342.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <423359.57342.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Kerri. I would say that if you want to go to the bar, go for it. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting a night out to yourself, and believe it or not, alot of us as blind peoplego out with friends or by yourselves. I think a simple way of calling for a cab would be to ask the fron to call one- they'll have the addres and when the cab company calls, they will cal the bar and you can get an employee to let you know/help you out there if you need to. I know I am jumping around a little, but here's my thought on the different bars; you can absolutely go to whatever bar you want to, the difference may be simply that you just know people at your father's bar more so than you do the other bar. One thing to think about with how bars tend to serve you; some may be known for having great service and others may not be so known for it- so if one place treats you well, and one does not - it may be linked to that. As the Mall goes, I find getting general directions twards the food courtis good- the food court has a very distinctive food smell and you'll be able to find it rather easily. if you are not feeling very confident about it, you can always ask for assistance to the food court and or to the movies. If you have more time on your hands and you want to, maybe you might go exploring the mall. Exploring the mall can be rather fun because you may find stores in the mall that you didn't know were there (though, this could be equally not so great on your pocket book *smile*) both social events should be fun and i hope you take them as low-stress as they should be. As convention goes I would just say that you'll love it! there are many people who use many different modes of travel in the hotel, and gain so much from it. I hope this helps, Darian On 5/7/10, William ODonnell wrote: > You can do the following: > [1]. go outside and call the cab, put the phone on vibrate to know when they > call. > [2]. Since you know the bar near home, do you know your way around? Why is > one guiding you? Do you use a cane or dog? > > Before leaving, reserve a pick-up time for leaving and comeing home. > > --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> From: Kerri Kosten >> Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:22 AM >> Hi: >> >> I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the >> list can >> help me with. >> >> First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live >> called >> Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but >> the bar is >> still open. I went tonight for the first time since he >> passed away. >> Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever >> had just >> hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try >> to sing >> kereoke and just being around people. >> >> There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke >> thing every >> week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have >> never gone to >> this by myself but have gone with friends and really >> enjoyed it also >> for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun >> entertainment away >> from my house. >> >> At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe >> there. I sit at >> the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The >> waitresses and >> bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make >> sure >> everything is all right. >> >> However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not >> really known >> there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually >> seated at a >> table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, >> but as soon >> as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. >> >> Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin >> going to >> Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no >> problem, but how >> do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with >> me, but the >> bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to >> call a cab. >> Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I >> usually have the >> driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able >> to hear my >> phone. >> >> At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide >> me to the >> bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them >> call Crocketts >> and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to >> pick me >> up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at >> Crocketts. >> >> But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to >> leave do I >> somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the >> bathroom, >> where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to >> call me >> back? >> Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of >> unsafe. >> Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were >> from out of >> town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I >> could go >> with. >> >> Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let >> me know they >> are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? >> How do you guys handle this? >> >> I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by >> yourself >> but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure >> out this >> getting home part I'd be fine. >> >> >> Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the >> mall/movies >> Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would >> like to get >> something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then >> go to the >> movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and >> spread out. It >> is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and >> the >> theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place >> to the >> other? >> >> When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information >> desk and >> get assistance to the food court. When I have finished >> eating how do I >> figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie >> theaters? >> >> Do I just start wandering around and asking random people >> for >> directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance >> again at the >> movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? >> >> Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. >> Yes, I am the >> same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been >> taught in >> cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national >> convention. >> However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and >> do >> regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask >> questions >> on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! >> >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." From nabs.president at gmail.com Fri May 7 16:32:43 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 10:32:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: <423359.57342.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <423359.57342.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Kerri, You can go outside to call your cab if you don't want to do it in the bathroom. I think you will be pretty safe outside as long as you are obviously on your cell phone. When you call the cab, you can ask them to call your phone when they arrive, and put your phone on vibrate so you know when they call. Then, go outside and listen for an idling vehicle. Alternatively, when you call, you can tell them you're blind and that you won't be able to see them through the window, so the driver should park and come in and find you, or be sure to call your phone. Sometimes this is good if the place where you would meet the cab is crowded or it's hard to tell whether a cab has pulled up. As for your second question, you can definitely request assistance in finding the food court, and then ask directions to the movie theater. Since the mall is all on one level you will just want to be sure you are going the right way and then ask people as you are walking so you know when you are getting close to the theater. You might also be able to smell popcorn! In my experience, most mall-goers are more than happy to be an escort or at least to give directions, so don't worry about bothering people by asking questions. If no one is around, you can also walk into a random store and ask the storeclerk for directions. I have done this many times. When you get to the movie theater, ask where the line is or listen for the ticket counter and then follow the line until you get to the counter to buy your ticket. Best of luck and I hope you enjoy the karaoke and the movie. I am glad to see that you are interested and determined to get out on your own even without a lot of cane training. Many blind people in your situation would simply just stay home or only go out with sighted friends, so you are taking a good first step just by coming up with a plan and going. Arielle On 5/7/10, William ODonnell wrote: > You can do the following: > [1]. go outside and call the cab, put the phone on vibrate to know when they > call. > [2]. Since you know the bar near home, do you know your way around? Why is > one guiding you? Do you use a cane or dog? > > Before leaving, reserve a pick-up time for leaving and comeing home. > > --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> From: Kerri Kosten >> Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:22 AM >> Hi: >> >> I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the >> list can >> help me with. >> >> First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live >> called >> Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but >> the bar is >> still open. I went tonight for the first time since he >> passed away. >> Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever >> had just >> hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try >> to sing >> kereoke and just being around people. >> >> There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke >> thing every >> week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have >> never gone to >> this by myself but have gone with friends and really >> enjoyed it also >> for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun >> entertainment away >> from my house. >> >> At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe >> there. I sit at >> the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The >> waitresses and >> bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make >> sure >> everything is all right. >> >> However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not >> really known >> there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually >> seated at a >> table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, >> but as soon >> as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. >> >> Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin >> going to >> Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no >> problem, but how >> do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with >> me, but the >> bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to >> call a cab. >> Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I >> usually have the >> driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able >> to hear my >> phone. >> >> At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide >> me to the >> bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them >> call Crocketts >> and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to >> pick me >> up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at >> Crocketts. >> >> But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to >> leave do I >> somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the >> bathroom, >> where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to >> call me >> back? >> Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of >> unsafe. >> Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were >> from out of >> town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I >> could go >> with. >> >> Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let >> me know they >> are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? >> How do you guys handle this? >> >> I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by >> yourself >> but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure >> out this >> getting home part I'd be fine. >> >> >> Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the >> mall/movies >> Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would >> like to get >> something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then >> go to the >> movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and >> spread out. It >> is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and >> the >> theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place >> to the >> other? >> >> When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information >> desk and >> get assistance to the food court. When I have finished >> eating how do I >> figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie >> theaters? >> >> Do I just start wandering around and asking random people >> for >> directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance >> again at the >> movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? >> >> Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. >> Yes, I am the >> same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been >> taught in >> cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national >> convention. >> However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and >> do >> regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask >> questions >> on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! >> >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Fri May 7 18:25:30 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 13:25:30 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 43, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006f01caee12$ade0e6e0$09a2b4a0$@com> George, Without a plan the only things you cannot do are make phone calls or connect to the internet via the 3G network. Contacts, calendar, alarms and all the other functions are still usable. I am sure there are differing opinions on this, but having used both products, I feel that Talks is the superior, hands down. It is more responsive. It has much cleaner speech (it uses eloquence if you like that). I like some of the text navigation features of Mobile Speak slightly better, but Talks' are quite good as well. I'm no tech guru, just a user, but that is how I feel. Take care, Sean From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri May 7 18:08:22 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 14:08:22 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, I don't know about bars and stuff...don't really go. But I do know about the mall! When I go to the mall alone, I do some pre-day research. I go to the website for our mall, and look up the stores I know I will definitely want to go to. I get their letter-number coordinates (in our mall, like in many, the stores are seperated into sections labelled A, B, C, D, etc. The number can be one of two things. If the number is before the letter, like 1B, then the number is the floor number. If the number is after the letter, like A13, then that tells you where within the section the store is. So, for example, say a mall has the bottom floor sections named A, B, C, D, and E. The second floor, being smaller, is F, G, and H. Pretend there are two department stores, JCPenney's, which is A1 and F1. well, then, you know that A and F are both on the same sides of the mall. And if Belk's is at E1, H1, then you can assume that since these are both letters at the end of the list for the floors that the mall goes down t he alphabet from JCPenney's to Belk's, roughly. Now, say you are looking for Claire's, which is at C4. If there are 15 stores per section (look and see what the highest number is), then you can see Claire's is toward the beginning of the section, the fourth store. C1 might be Raido Shack...well, if it is, find that store and count to the fourth store. How do you find that one, you might ask? Well, the same way you learned where C4 is, by association with the other stores and sections. If Radio Shack is C1, maybe it's at a corner in the middle of the mall. Well, what's B15? Look for something you find easily, like Bath and Boyd Works (smells great!), Auntie Em's Pretzels (another good smell!), or a leather shop (a distinct smell). Perhaps there's a carousel in your mall, and C1 is the left of the carousel? Learn the landmarks of your store and find stores based on those landmarks. In Crabtree Valley Mall, my landmarks are Belk's red tables (they always have red tables in the aisles, so I know it's Belk's if there are red-clothed tables), Bath and Boyd Works, Radio Shack (it has a very bright blue neon sign, with some red too), Claire's bring pink interior, the Verizon stall which is toward the middle, and is always pretty crowded, and of course Auntie Em's pretzel shop. The elevator and escalator are also good landmarks to know where a store is in relation to them. Upstairs, I again use the elevator and escalator as landmarks, plus the food court, the candle store, Sharon's Luggage and Gifts, and so on. Once you have an idea of some landmarks, it wil make it much easier to find other places. Now, say you want to go by the mall on a spur-thought to a new store. You know it's somewhere on the JCPenney's side, but you aren't sure where. Go to JCPenney's and ask someone there to give you directions. Along the way, feel free to ask people as they pass if they see it, or if they passed it. Then they can tell you about how far, and you'll have peace of mind that you are on the right track. Sometimes, you will even find another person walking alone or with kids or something going the same way who doesn't mind you walking with her. Sometimes, you can have really great conversations and even meet really good people this way. I have made some friends this way. I hope this helps. If you want, let me know what mall it is, and I can look up it's layout and give you more detailed explanation of the layout. I can even get Mike to look at the map for definite layouts, which leads me to the last suggestion. Sometimes, it's best to have someone look at the map and either teach you the basics of the layout (A is at the north end, B and C right there after it to the south, E and F are side aisles in the center, and G H and I are mirror images of the A, B, C but with Belk's). Or get the map blown up and have someone use glue to raise the lines of the map. Then, use Braille labels or bump dots to mark important locations, such as the information booth, bathrooms, food court, your faviourte stores, etc. A map can be enlarged easily by printing it out and putting it in a copier machine. Gluing the parts into a folding piece of cardborad or such will help it last, and then you have a portable map...really, I should do this myself, but I've been lazy about it so far *blush* ~Jewel On 5/7/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi: > > I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the list can > help me with. > > First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live called > Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but the bar is > still open. I went tonight for the first time since he passed away. > Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever had just > hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try to sing > kereoke and just being around people. > > There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke thing every > week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have never gone to > this by myself but have gone with friends and really enjoyed it also > for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun entertainment away > from my house. > > At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe there. I sit at > the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The waitresses and > bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make sure > everything is all right. > > However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not really known > there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually seated at a > table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, but as soon > as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. > > Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin going to > Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no problem, but how > do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with me, but the > bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to call a cab. > Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I usually have the > driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able to hear my > phone. > > At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide me to the > bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them call Crocketts > and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to pick me > up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at Crocketts. > > But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to leave do I > somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the bathroom, > where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to call me > back? > Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of unsafe. > Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were from out of > town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I could go > with. > > Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let me know they > are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? > How do you guys handle this? > > I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by yourself > but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure out this > getting home part I'd be fine. > > > Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the mall/movies > Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would like to get > something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then go to the > movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and spread out. It > is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and the > theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place to the > other? > > When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information desk and > get assistance to the food court. When I have finished eating how do I > figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie theaters? > > Do I just start wandering around and asking random people for > directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance again at the > movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? > > Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. Yes, I am the > same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been taught in > cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national convention. > However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and do > regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask questions > on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Fri May 7 18:26:42 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 14:26:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Talks versus Mobile Speak In-Reply-To: <608AACA8-8E84-4FF9-85A4-5FFFDC6769C1@mac.com> References: <608AACA8-8E84-4FF9-85A4-5FFFDC6769C1@mac.com> Message-ID: I have a similar question. I will be getting my first accessible cell phone this summer and I'm not sure whether Talks or Mobile Speak is better as a screen reader. also, I know Mobile Speak is sold through the National Center for Customers with Disabilities at AT&T, but I'm not sure how to go about obtaining TALKS. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Katie On 5/6/10, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello all. > I've decided to drop the KNFB reader classic and fine some way to get the > new KNFB-Reader Mobile. > My question has 2 parts. > > Firstly: which screen reading software is better? Mobile Speak or Talks? > > > Also, when you get your Nokia device, with Talks/Mobile Speak, can you still > use the callendar, notes/wifi function without a plan? > What things can you not use without a plan? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri May 7 18:28:41 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Fri, 07 May 2010 14:28:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest Message-ID: <20100507182841.9424.89130@web1> Heather, that's one of the best analyses I've ever read on this issue. I was thinking more along the same lines as you as the topic progressed, but I don't think I could have said it better myself. Excellent and thanks. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi all, > It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", > "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about > the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as > it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, > let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar > groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of > how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs > which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want > to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some > time or other. > Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian > churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. > Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and > keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal > friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and > get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, > discipled personally by other members of the church. > This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, > get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical > interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of > the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by > friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are > the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training > classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by > strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a > local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a > smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works > there it is. > I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to > get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying > that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people > down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of > the organisation must be made in the social context in which it > operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are > worth considering. > 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do > volunteer work. > 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and > commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. > 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less > leisure time for social group involvement. > 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much > larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the > incredible advances in medical competence, the development of > technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights > movement which has put the disability community out of institutions > and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite > resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer > transportation assistance. > 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of > education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up > with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the > blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more > difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the > respectability of blindness are harder to influence. > 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the > western world are adults over 65 years of age. > The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different > from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen > nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive > for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why > are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused > on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is > to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to > increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever > the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my > town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB > philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth > and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that > new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of > encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside > them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a > better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to > meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all > my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical > presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can > be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask > yourself the hard questions. > I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is > person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new > members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, > scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of > groups like the NFB. > 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to > take on leadership positions. > 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the > work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work > occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of > techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. > What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will > determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. > Regards, > Heather Field > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 > years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted > at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that > we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the > leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is > just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the > specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard > is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While > I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may > be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as > someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at > empowering and educating the membership as a whole. > Thanks for your thoughts, > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> Briley, >> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >> posts. >> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's >> funny that >> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I >> have to >> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >> almost >> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >> National >> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >> fundraising >> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been >> forgotten. It is >> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner >> than the >> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 >> years, >> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the >> source, are >> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >> Best, >> Joe >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >> often forget that. >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >> what we had to fight for! >>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >> be in the real world. >>> Dave >>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>> Good afternoon all, >>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >> of information at state conventions or national events. But >> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't >> exist. >>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >> should not limit our life choices. >>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >> history. We will all be better for it. >>>> Best, >>>> Briley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >> 40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> http://www.eset.com >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> http://www.eset.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From brileyp at gmail.com Fri May 7 23:43:07 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 18:43:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: <20100507182841.9424.89130@web1> References: <20100507182841.9424.89130@web1> Message-ID: I second, Jedi. Thank you, Heather. That took a lot of thought and composition, and I'm grateful for it. Briley On May 7, 2010, at 1:28 PM, Jedi wrote: > Heather, > > that's one of the best analyses I've ever read on this issue. I was thinking more along the same lines as you as the topic progressed, but I don't think I could have said it better myself. Excellent and thanks. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hi all, >> It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", >> "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about >> the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as >> it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, >> let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar >> groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of >> how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs >> which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want >> to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some >> time or other. > >> Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian >> churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. >> Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and >> keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal >> friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and >> get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, >> discipled personally by other members of the church. > >> This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, >> get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical >> interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of >> the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by >> friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are >> the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training >> classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by >> strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a >> local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a >> smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works >> there it is. > >> I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to >> get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying >> that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people >> down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of >> the organisation must be made in the social context in which it >> operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are >> worth considering. > >> 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do >> volunteer work. >> 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and >> commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. >> 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less >> leisure time for social group involvement. >> 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much >> larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the >> incredible advances in medical competence, the development of >> technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights >> movement which has put the disability community out of institutions >> and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite >> resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer >> transportation assistance. >> 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of >> education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up >> with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the >> blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more >> difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the >> respectability of blindness are harder to influence. >> 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the >> western world are adults over 65 years of age. > >> The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different >> from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen >> nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive >> for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why >> are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused >> on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is >> to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to >> increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever >> the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my >> town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB >> philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth >> and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that >> new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of >> encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside >> them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a >> better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to >> meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all >> my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical >> presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can >> be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask >> yourself the hard questions. > >> I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is >> person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new >> members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, >> scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of >> groups like the NFB. >> 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to >> take on leadership positions. >> 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the >> work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work >> occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of >> techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. > >> What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will >> determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. > >> Regards, > >> Heather Field > > > > > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > >> I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 >> years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted >> at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that >> we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the >> leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is >> just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the >> specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard >> is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While >> I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may >> be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as >> someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at >> empowering and educating the membership as a whole. > >> Thanks for your thoughts, >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >>> Briley, > >>> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >>> posts. >>> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's >>> funny that >>> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I >>> have to >>> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >>> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >>> almost >>> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >>> National >>> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >>> fundraising >>> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been >>> forgotten. It is >>> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner >>> than the >>> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 >>> years, >>> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the >>> source, are >>> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. > >>> Best, > >>> Joe > >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > >>> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >>> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >>> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >>> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >>> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >>> often forget that. > >>> Briley >>> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >>>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >>> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >>> what we had to fight for! > >>>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >>> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >>> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >>> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >>> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >>> be in the real world. > >>>> Dave > >>>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>>> Good afternoon all, > >>>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >>> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >>> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >>> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >>> when I began digging a little deeper. > >>>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >>> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >>> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >>> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >>> of information at state conventions or national events. But >>> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >>> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >>> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >>> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >>> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >>> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >>> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. > >>>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >>> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >>> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >>> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >>> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >>> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >>> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >>> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >>> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >>> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >>> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >>> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >>> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >>> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >>> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >>> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >>> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't >>> exist. > >>>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >>> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >>> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >>> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >>> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >>> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >>> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >>> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >>> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >>> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. > >>>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >>> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >>> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >>> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >>> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >>> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >>> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >>> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >>> think we've lost respect for our past. > >>>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >>> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >>> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >>> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >>> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >>> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >>> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >>> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >>> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >>> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >>> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >>> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >>> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >>> should not limit our life choices. > >>>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >>> history. We will all be better for it. > >>>>> Best, >>>>> Briley > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >>> 40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com > > >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ > >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>> http://www.eset.com > > > >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5080 (20100502) __________ > >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>> http://www.eset.com > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat May 8 00:24:22 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 19:24:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: References: <423359.57342.qm@web30908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02a001caee44$cf1cabf0$6d5603d0$@com> Hello, I'm not posted here in a long time, but I did want to comment here. I agree with what was said about going to the bar--just go for it. As for the mall, wandering around is the best way if you have some extra time -- you gain confidence and knowledge of where things are without having to feel like you need to take someone's arm. I always like to rely on general directions; that is, get up fro mthe seating area (I would ask where the nearest trash can is for getting rid of your food, at the moment when you buy it, so you can just get up and through it out without having to ask for assistance at this point), then begin walking in the general direction of the other end of the mall. Along the way, casually ask someone if the movie theatre is in this area,, this way, etc. Ask if it is on the left or the right. Do not get caught in the trap of thinking you have to ask specific directions, because most sighted people find it very difficult to give specific directions, as they rely on signs and other large visual indicators for directions and guidance. When you get there, you will hear people in line, or may notice a line of folks as you walk -- this is most likely the ticket line. Ask, "Is this the end of the line?" If they say yes, stand there and gently put the end of your cane to the ankles of the person in front, and be sure and stand approximately two to three steps back as not to crowd the person in front of you. In this way, you will notice if they move forward. Again, general directions apply here -- and be sure and enjoy the movie! I hope this helps. Harry -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:22 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a couple of questions Hello Kerri. I would say that if you want to go to the bar, go for it. I think there is nothing wrong with wanting a night out to yourself, and believe it or not, alot of us as blind peoplego out with friends or by yourselves. I think a simple way of calling for a cab would be to ask the fron to call one- they'll have the addres and when the cab company calls, they will cal the bar and you can get an employee to let you know/help you out there if you need to. I know I am jumping around a little, but here's my thought on the different bars; you can absolutely go to whatever bar you want to, the difference may be simply that you just know people at your father's bar more so than you do the other bar. One thing to think about with how bars tend to serve you; some may be known for having great service and others may not be so known for it- so if one place treats you well, and one does not - it may be linked to that. As the Mall goes, I find getting general directions twards the food courtis good- the food court has a very distinctive food smell and you'll be able to find it rather easily. if you are not feeling very confident about it, you can always ask for assistance to the food court and or to the movies. If you have more time on your hands and you want to, maybe you might go exploring the mall. Exploring the mall can be rather fun because you may find stores in the mall that you didn't know were there (though, this could be equally not so great on your pocket book *smile*) both social events should be fun and i hope you take them as low-stress as they should be. As convention goes I would just say that you'll love it! there are many people who use many different modes of travel in the hotel, and gain so much from it. I hope this helps, Darian On 5/7/10, William ODonnell wrote: > You can do the following: > [1]. go outside and call the cab, put the phone on vibrate to know when they > call. > [2]. Since you know the bar near home, do you know your way around? Why is > one guiding you? Do you use a cane or dog? > > Before leaving, reserve a pick-up time for leaving and comeing home. > > --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > >> From: Kerri Kosten >> Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:22 AM >> Hi: >> >> I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the >> list can >> help me with. >> >> First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live >> called >> Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but >> the bar is >> still open. I went tonight for the first time since he >> passed away. >> Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever >> had just >> hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try >> to sing >> kereoke and just being around people. >> >> There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke >> thing every >> week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have >> never gone to >> this by myself but have gone with friends and really >> enjoyed it also >> for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun >> entertainment away >> from my house. >> >> At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe >> there. I sit at >> the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The >> waitresses and >> bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make >> sure >> everything is all right. >> >> However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not >> really known >> there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually >> seated at a >> table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, >> but as soon >> as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. >> >> Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin >> going to >> Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no >> problem, but how >> do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with >> me, but the >> bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to >> call a cab. >> Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I >> usually have the >> driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able >> to hear my >> phone. >> >> At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide >> me to the >> bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them >> call Crocketts >> and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to >> pick me >> up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at >> Crocketts. >> >> But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to >> leave do I >> somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the >> bathroom, >> where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to >> call me >> back? >> Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of >> unsafe. >> Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were >> from out of >> town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I >> could go >> with. >> >> Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let >> me know they >> are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? >> How do you guys handle this? >> >> I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by >> yourself >> but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure >> out this >> getting home part I'd be fine. >> >> >> Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the >> mall/movies >> Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would >> like to get >> something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then >> go to the >> movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and >> spread out. It >> is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and >> the >> theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place >> to the >> other? >> >> When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information >> desk and >> get assistance to the food court. When I have finished >> eating how do I >> figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie >> theaters? >> >> Do I just start wandering around and asking random people >> for >> directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance >> again at the >> movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? >> >> Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. >> Yes, I am the >> same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been >> taught in >> cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national >> convention. >> However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and >> do >> regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask >> questions >> on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! >> >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40 yahoo.com >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.co m > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From stevemax83 at yahoo.com Sat May 8 01:22:20 2010 From: stevemax83 at yahoo.com (Steven Max-Faults) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 18:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello All, I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. Thanks!   Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote: From: Jewel S. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! ~jEWEL On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: > >> >>---------- >>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>To: Danielsen, Chris >>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >> >>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, >>in case you didn't, here it is.  We've been >>asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended for >>a one-stop resource for locating described >>movies on DVD, and so now we've made >>one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >> >>Best, >>Mary >>*** >> >>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the >>Descriptive Video Service (DVS®) has debuted two >>new online resources today for fans of described >>movies.  Both can be reached via a new, >>easy-to-remember Web site address:  www.describedmovies.org >> >>1. DVS on DVD >>This page of our site has been updated to enable >>description fans to learn about mainstream DVD >>and Blu-ray discs that are available with audio >>description, and provides a Amazon click through >>option which takes you directly to the page of >>amazon.com to order the disc. The DVD and >>Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available >>wherever discs are sold (online and in stores), >>however clicking through our site to purchase >>your movies will provide the Media Access Group >>with a small percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our >> efforts. >> >>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal >>Pictures Home Entertainment, starring Meryl >>Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is the >>most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >> >>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>This page lists every movie we've described for >>television, cable, DVS Home Video and DVS >>Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS >>debuted as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly >>800 films!  The list is sortable by movie title >>or distributor (the company for which we >>originally described the film). Ask for >>described versions of movies from your >>television, cable or satellite provider, from >>movies by mail services and from Web sites which >>offer streaming or downloadable movies. >> >>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>information about movies offered with >>description in theaters equipped with Motion >>Picture Access systems.  And try >>www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip >>code, set the search filter for DVS and find the >>equipped theaters, described movies and accessible showtimes near you. >> >>We like hearing from you, so please let us know >>what you think, and if you have suggestions for making our pages more >> helpful. >> >>Thank you. >> >>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>Boston – Los Angeles >>access.wgbh.org >>617 300-3700 >>access at wgbh.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.com From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat May 8 01:31:15 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 18:31:15 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions References: Message-ID: In my home town, I feel safe asking random people for assistance in the mall. It is a nice neighborhood, so I do not have much to worry about, I am still on the look out nevertheless. How good are you about remembering directions? Is there more than one information desk? Could you get back to the information desk from the food court? If there is a second information desk closer to the food court than where you come in, could you ask them to take you to that one and then from there go to the food court then find your way back to the second information desk? In the future, can you go learn the mall more ahead of time? Just some thoughts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 4:22 AM Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions > Hi: > > I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the list can > help me with. > > First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live called > Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but the bar is > still open. I went tonight for the first time since he passed away. > Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever had just > hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try to sing > kereoke and just being around people. > > There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke thing every > week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have never gone to > this by myself but have gone with friends and really enjoyed it also > for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun entertainment away > from my house. > > At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe there. I sit at > the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The waitresses and > bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make sure > everything is all right. > > However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not really known > there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually seated at a > table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, but as soon > as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. > > Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin going to > Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no problem, but how > do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with me, but the > bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to call a cab. > Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I usually have the > driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able to hear my > phone. > > At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide me to the > bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them call Crocketts > and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to pick me > up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at Crocketts. > > But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to leave do I > somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the bathroom, > where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to call me > back? > Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of unsafe. > Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were from out of > town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I could go > with. > > Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let me know they > are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? > How do you guys handle this? > > I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by yourself > but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure out this > getting home part I'd be fine. > > > Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the mall/movies > Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would like to get > something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then go to the > movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and spread out. It > is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and the > theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place to the > other? > > When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information desk and > get assistance to the food court. When I have finished eating how do I > figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie theaters? > > Do I just start wandering around and asking random people for > directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance again at the > movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? > > Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. Yes, I am the > same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been taught in > cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national convention. > However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and do > regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask questions > on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From corbbo at gmail.com Sat May 8 01:59:23 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 21:59:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Internet Archive Launches Library for the Visually Impaired With 1M Books Message-ID: <0A8AA013-84E8-439A-8C5F-46E0E3BF8F45@gmail.com> Please distribute as appropriate. --- Internet Archive today launched a new service that will provide more than a million books in a specially designed format that can be read by visually impaired readers. The new service is part of the the non- profit’s Open Library project, which has been scanning and digitizing hundreds of thousands of books for the past several years and now has more than a million in its index. Internet Archive founder Brewster Kahle, who funds some of the Archive’s costs through his charitable foundation, said the new service more than doubles the number of books previously available to visually impaired readers. “Every person deserves the opportunity to enhance their lives through access to the books that teach, entertain and inspire,” Kahle said in a statement. “Bringing access to huge libraries of books to the blind and print disabled is truly one of benefits of the digital revolution.” The Archive founder — who also founded Alexa.com and later sold it to Amazon — said the project is also asking individuals to donate books to add to the digital library, the first 10,000 of which the project will fund the digitization of (the rest will be financed by donations from foundations, companies and government). The books being offered as part of the project are scanned by Archive volunteers and employees in 20 locations across the U.S. (and in several other countries), including San Francisco, Los Angeles, New York and the Library of Congress. The books are then digitized using a special format called DAISY, which can be used by the visually impaired or downloaded to devices that read the text aloud. Some books have come from other digitization projects, while scanned books come from the collections of more than 150 libraries that belong to the Open Content Alliance, which is also affiliated with the Internet Archive. The Open Library, which was originally launched in 2007 and whose motto is “A web page for every book,” just got a new design and features, including improved search. Google also has a book-scanning and digitization project called Google Books, which the company claims has more than 10 million books in digital format. Kahle has been building the Internet Archive and the Open Library since the late 1990s, with a vision of providing millions of digital books for free. A video of his talk at the TED conference in 2007 is embedded below. (Video on website.) From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat May 8 04:40:04 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 00:40:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Heather and all, A well-written, thought-provoking post as always. Yet I have to confess it was one of those messages where I heartily agreed with certain points and completely disagreed with others. Your message says that what happens in our community is up to us regardless of what the national office decides to build or how it decides to spend its money. Unfortunately, even in the Christian church example you provide, local branches, or in our case local chapters, cannot exist as independent operations with little regard for the customs, norms and influence promoted by the central body. People in the NFB are asked to give up their free time to attend meetings, to volunteer between meetings, to make donations, and to budget for expensive trips to conventions across the state and across the country. In a perfect world the warmth and camaraderie of one's own community would be enough to satisfy one's need to know to what end their time is being invested. Yet local chapters review presidential releases. Veteran members strongly encourage freshmen to attend conventions, and the freshmen and the curious succumb to these activities because it is human nature to want to learn and do more. Modern technology makes it impossible to settle for small-town satisfaction. This in of itself is not anything negative. The national conventions are large enough to accommodate individual interests. The problem comes into play when the national body leans on state affiliates to produce more than what the state affiliates can produce. What happens at the national level very much impacts local communities, because ultimately it is up to the general membership to help bring in the money to build what the national office wants. I do not buy into the belief that major decisions are dictated by convention resolutions, many of which are not fulfilled, but the level of tilted demand and fractured communication between the national office and state affiliates are one reason we witness incidents like the New Hampshire affiliate collapse. New Hampshire is the rare exception, but how many other New Hampshires are there in our midst? You make the excellent point that what the organization looks like in fifty years will largely depend on what we as individuals choose to contribute. That's an interesting proposal. I came into the organization almost nine years ago, made a lot of noise, discovered that the best way to be heard was to do the hard work, did the hard work so that I could give my complaints a foundation, and even after some of my better efforts discovered that diligent service only carries you so far. In my case, I could genuinely care less if people like me as an individual so long as the ideas I propose to help blind people as a whole are given a fair audience. Hard work, it seemed, was only appreciated so long as I followed the party line. Conventions are the place to debate decisions, and any debate between conventions is just unthinkable. Well, when it came to deciding whether I would spend my time developing my professional aspirations or devoting my time to an organization that only showed conditional appreciation for my talents, the choice wasn't that difficult. Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB but are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company. Does this somehow make my opinions less than worthy because I am not giving the organization 100 percent of my devotion? This logic, to me, suggests that if you are blind, you would be wrong not to belong to the NFB and pull your full weight. Not all cancer survivors devote the balance of their lives to finding a cure. Moreover, what good is believing in the philosophy if you do not exercise the philosophy in the areas that interest you most? I may very well be tuned into the wrong channel, but from where I'm sitting and the conversations I'm tapping into, people trip over themselves to complain about this or make fun of that, youth and adults alike, but hold them accountable in a public forum and it's all about amen to the glory of the NFB. Give credit where credit is due, but we really will not survive if we only know how to give unquestioning allegiance to the people in power. The NFB has historically questioned authority and raised a call to action to change that with which it did not agree. I take it the same cannot be said about internal calls for improvements? If only fully committed members are valued, then I guess I know where the door is. Maybe there really is no one patient enough to tame this weapon. Yet there is still the matter of the people yet to be brought in. These are people who are unfortunately made to feel less than perfect if they do not attend one of our training centers. These are people who are made to feel less loyal if they do not use one of our long canes. These are people who are not deemed "normal" if their personal habits, social skills and philosophies do not mesh with our own. As an example, one weekend I was at a leadership seminar at the National Center. A well-known student accidentally dropped their plate in the dining room at dinner time. The student was mortified not because they had dropped their plate, but because they had dropped their plate in the presence of other blind people in the highly esteemed National Center. I mean, so much for all this nonsense about how the National Center is supposed to be our house. I guarantee that if anyone from this list ever set foot into my home, you would never be made to feel as awkwardly uncomfortable as the National Center has the ability to make people feel. I felt so incredibly bad for the student in question but could honestly not think of what to say to make them feel better. It's arrogance in almost its purest form. I'm an arrogant guy and appreciate the mentality, but the organization cannot afford to be so condescending to the people who do not purchase the whole cow, not when the organization chooses to isolate itself from other cross disability groups and thinks its methods of doing things are better than even other blindness organizations. I think I could count the number of times the NFB has partnered up with other groups to send a message. And so here we are. I feel good about the service I provided to the NFB in my more active years. I fully intend to use my resources to try to help divisions, affiliates and local chapters expand their operations as soon as I can give the project proper attention, but to be honest, I do it because I care about the people more than I care about the organization and its doctrine. Somewhere along the way banquet speeches weren't enough to mobilize my efforts, and at the moment the only thing the NFB can offer me is the opportunity to raise money for projects with no short-term benefits to the people who genuinely need help getting educated and employed. My hard-earned dollars seem to be better spent on hungry families in Washington DC by way of my church. I believe the NFB will fade away in due course not because there will no longer be a need for proper advocacy on behalf of the blind. Rather, it will fade away because the up and coming generation will figure out that it can accomplish what the NFB wants to achieve and then some, and be more inclusive about it. As Heather pointed out, this generation is not a generation of joiners. The ones who do make it their life's work to help the blind need only come up with one good alternative to make both the NFB and ACB irrelevant, only, one, alternative. Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the tree and the forest Hi all, It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some time or other. Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, discipled personally by other members of the church. This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works there it is. I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of the organisation must be made in the social context in which it operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are worth considering. 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do volunteer work. 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less leisure time for social group involvement. 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the incredible advances in medical competence, the development of technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights movement which has put the disability community out of institutions and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer transportation assistance. 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the respectability of blindness are harder to influence. 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the western world are adults over 65 years of age. The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask yourself the hard questions. I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of groups like the NFB. 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to take on leadership positions. 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. Regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a whole. Thanks for your thoughts, Briley On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Briley, > > I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan > posts. > I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's > funny that > you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I > have to > contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our > generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is > almost > completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the > National > Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with > fundraising > and technological design that everyday philosophy has been > forgotten. It is > my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner > than the > engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 > years, > maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the > source, are > you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of > entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and > our purpose as an organization will better define that line > between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom > much is given, much is required, and I think people all too > often forget that. > > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that > our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is > what we had to fight for! >> >> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, > but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever > be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some > stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement > attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to > be in the real world. >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>> Good afternoon all, >>> >>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel > is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a > movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly > didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago > when I began digging a little deeper. >>> >>> The federation has always been an important force in my > life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during > the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard > about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits > of information at state conventions or national events. But > most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is > understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the > obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily > basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, > life events have spurred me on to discover more about our > roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has > a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>> >>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved > with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently > realized his need for further training, and that lead him to > ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me > questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy > developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. > I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was > disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. > Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, > and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but > beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely > limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the > organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm > on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me > after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We > have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots > are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't > exist. >>> >>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done > an amazing job of making our history available to us. > www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the > parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are > available online going back 25 years, and important speeches > are available in both text and recorded form going back before > that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that > blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it > took to get out there every day and command respect from a > sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>> >>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization > accuse the older generation of the federation of being too > "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree > with how the older generation has approached some issues, when > you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to > be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a > greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a > long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I > think we've lost respect for our past. >>> >>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the > beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 > years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really > understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my > share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But > I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not > just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even > before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world > where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No > organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we > must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built > upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind > people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness > should not limit our life choices. >>> >>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our > history. We will all be better for it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Briley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheat her%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat May 8 04:43:25 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 23:43:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics Message-ID: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> Hello everyone, I am writing because I am curious to know something. We always hear about the 70 percent unemployment rate, and that X number (93%?) of employed blind people read and write Braille, etc. I never see, however, where the facts are obtained. I have never seen a source, other than the NFB. How does the NFB get it's facts and figures, and what instrument do they use for measurement? I have always been taught never to take for truth what is said, just because it is stated, and it occurred to me recently that anytime facts or figures are mentioned there is never a source. Has anyone else wondered this? I do not mean to say the NFB is wrong, or start any sort of debate; I am simply quite honestly curious. Wishing you all well, Harry Hogue From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat May 8 08:51:27 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 03:51:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001caee8b$a5ef03d0$f1cd0b70$@com> Joe, I so Completely agree with your post , particularly concerning making people feel bad for not attending training centers (as if they are somehow lacking). I have noticed that it is more or less assumed, in some cases, that if someone is blind and has not gone to a training center (NFB or not), then they are necessarily less competent, etc. I have always said that life is what you make of it, and the most value you gain from any experience, be that at a training center or through living life in its various stages, is a different perspective. It is said that there cannot possibly be any new ideas, as all of the ideas have already been thought of by someone before you. In this case, a new idea is not what is needed (do this, don't do that, and so forth), but a new perspective. Change your perspective and you will change your world. It may sound selfish to some, but I say if you first live for yourself and then live to help others you will be on the right track, because you are no good to anyone if you are not first comfortable within your own skin, and first take care of your needs. No organization should become your life, whether that it religious, advocacy, or what have you. You should have your family, your profession (work) life, and then things about which you are passionate (cancer groups, NFB, helping children, etc). This should fall in with this category. If blindness is a characteristic, then I am going to live my life to show this; it makes me very angry when people make out like I am responsible to all blind people in the world to raise money, promote this or that program, and so forth. And, I have to freely admit that part of this is the fact that I do not like anything which resembles unquestioning obedience or fellowship -- that is to say, I take what I need from such things and leave the rest. I do not hold as closely to the church of my childhood for this reason, but that is a discussion for another time. The same is with the NFB. We are never told where they get their statistics, but are just expected to accept them unquestioningly as true and accurate. Once I got in college and began to question things around me, I realized how ridiculous many things are in the world, and religion was one (again, different discussion, as it has absolutely no relevance here), and that led me to think about how so many people never question what they are taught, and just accept it with no proof. The other thing is this: organizations love buzzwords. They love to throw them around, and they write their literature, deliver their speeches, and promote their programs with the clear message that they, and they alone have the answer and are right, and anyone who disagrees is stupid. This is a common thread with organizations/religious groups, if you notice. The point I want to emphasize is the "we have the answers," part. My basic thing I like to remember about people is this: Everyone thinks they're right, everyone knows best, everyone always has the answer, and no one can disagree or you're stupid. This goes for individuals as well as groups. And, then again, maybe I'm just scinical, bitter, and all the rest of it. But these are only my thoughts. Thanks for your time. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:40 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest Dear Heather and all, A well-written, thought-provoking post as always. Yet I have to confess it was one of those messages where I heartily agreed with certain points and completely disagreed with others. Your message says that what happens in our community is up to us regardless of what the national office decides to build or how it decides to spend its money. Unfortunately, even in the Christian church example you provide, local branches, or in our case local chapters, cannot exist as independent operations with little regard for the customs, norms and influence promoted by the central body. People in the NFB are asked to give up their free time to attend meetings, to volunteer between meetings, to make donations, and to budget for expensive trips to conventions across the state and across the country. In a perfect world the warmth and camaraderie of one's own community would be enough to satisfy one's need to know to what end their time is being invested. Yet local chapters review presidential releases. Veteran members strongly encourage freshmen to attend conventions, and the freshmen and the curious succumb to these activities because it is human nature to want to learn and do more. Modern technology makes it impossible to settle for small-town satisfaction. This in of itself is not anything negative. The national conventions are large enough to accommodate individual interests. The problem comes into play when the national body leans on state affiliates to produce more than what the state affiliates can produce. What happens at the national level very much impacts local communities, because ultimately it is up to the general membership to help bring in the money to build what the national office wants. I do not buy into the belief that major decisions are dictated by convention resolutions, many of which are not fulfilled, but the level of tilted demand and fractured communication between the national office and state affiliates are one reason we witness incidents like the New Hampshire affiliate collapse. New Hampshire is the rare exception, but how many other New Hampshires are there in our midst? You make the excellent point that what the organization looks like in fifty years will largely depend on what we as individuals choose to contribute. That's an interesting proposal. I came into the organization almost nine years ago, made a lot of noise, discovered that the best way to be heard was to do the hard work, did the hard work so that I could give my complaints a foundation, and even after some of my better efforts discovered that diligent service only carries you so far. In my case, I could genuinely care less if people like me as an individual so long as the ideas I propose to help blind people as a whole are given a fair audience. Hard work, it seemed, was only appreciated so long as I followed the party line. Conventions are the place to debate decisions, and any debate between conventions is just unthinkable. Well, when it came to deciding whether I would spend my time developing my professional aspirations or devoting my time to an organization that only showed conditional appreciation for my talents, the choice wasn't that difficult. Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB but are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company. Does this somehow make my opinions less than worthy because I am not giving the organization 100 percent of my devotion? This logic, to me, suggests that if you are blind, you would be wrong not to belong to the NFB and pull your full weight. Not all cancer survivors devote the balance of their lives to finding a cure. Moreover, what good is believing in the philosophy if you do not exercise the philosophy in the areas that interest you most? I may very well be tuned into the wrong channel, but from where I'm sitting and the conversations I'm tapping into, people trip over themselves to complain about this or make fun of that, youth and adults alike, but hold them accountable in a public forum and it's all about amen to the glory of the NFB. Give credit where credit is due, but we really will not survive if we only know how to give unquestioning allegiance to the people in power. The NFB has historically questioned authority and raised a call to action to change that with which it did not agree. I take it the same cannot be said about internal calls for improvements? If only fully committed members are valued, then I guess I know where the door is. Maybe there really is no one patient enough to tame this weapon. Yet there is still the matter of the people yet to be brought in. These are people who are unfortunately made to feel less than perfect if they do not attend one of our training centers. These are people who are made to feel less loyal if they do not use one of our long canes. These are people who are not deemed "normal" if their personal habits, social skills and philosophies do not mesh with our own. As an example, one weekend I was at a leadership seminar at the National Center. A well-known student accidentally dropped their plate in the dining room at dinner time. The student was mortified not because they had dropped their plate, but because they had dropped their plate in the presence of other blind people in the highly esteemed National Center. I mean, so much for all this nonsense about how the National Center is supposed to be our house. I guarantee that if anyone from this list ever set foot into my home, you would never be made to feel as awkwardly uncomfortable as the National Center has the ability to make people feel. I felt so incredibly bad for the student in question but could honestly not think of what to say to make them feel better. It's arrogance in almost its purest form. I'm an arrogant guy and appreciate the mentality, but the organization cannot afford to be so condescending to the people who do not purchase the whole cow, not when the organization chooses to isolate itself from other cross disability groups and thinks its methods of doing things are better than even other blindness organizations. I think I could count the number of times the NFB has partnered up with other groups to send a message. And so here we are. I feel good about the service I provided to the NFB in my more active years. I fully intend to use my resources to try to help divisions, affiliates and local chapters expand their operations as soon as I can give the project proper attention, but to be honest, I do it because I care about the people more than I care about the organization and its doctrine. Somewhere along the way banquet speeches weren't enough to mobilize my efforts, and at the moment the only thing the NFB can offer me is the opportunity to raise money for projects with no short-term benefits to the people who genuinely need help getting educated and employed. My hard-earned dollars seem to be better spent on hungry families in Washington DC by way of my church. I believe the NFB will fade away in due course not because there will no longer be a need for proper advocacy on behalf of the blind. Rather, it will fade away because the up and coming generation will figure out that it can accomplish what the NFB wants to achieve and then some, and be more inclusive about it. As Heather pointed out, this generation is not a generation of joiners. The ones who do make it their life's work to help the blind need only come up with one good alternative to make both the NFB and ACB irrelevant, only, one, alternative. Joe Orozco "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the tree and the forest Hi all, It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some time or other. Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, discipled personally by other members of the church. This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works there it is. I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of the organisation must be made in the social context in which it operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are worth considering. 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do volunteer work. 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less leisure time for social group involvement. 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the incredible advances in medical competence, the development of technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights movement which has put the disability community out of institutions and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer transportation assistance. 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the respectability of blindness are harder to influence. 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the western world are adults over 65 years of age. The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask yourself the hard questions. I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of groups like the NFB. 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to take on leadership positions. 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. Regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a whole. Thanks for your thoughts, Briley On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Briley, > > I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan > posts. > I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's > funny that > you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I > have to > contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our > generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is > almost > completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the > National > Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with > fundraising > and technological design that everyday philosophy has been > forgotten. It is > my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner > than the > engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 > years, > maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the > source, are > you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of > entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and > our purpose as an organization will better define that line > between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom > much is given, much is required, and I think people all too > often forget that. > > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that > our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is > what we had to fight for! >> >> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, > but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever > be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some > stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement > attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to > be in the real world. >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>> Good afternoon all, >>> >>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel > is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a > movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly > didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago > when I began digging a little deeper. >>> >>> The federation has always been an important force in my > life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during > the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard > about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits > of information at state conventions or national events. But > most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is > understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the > obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily > basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, > life events have spurred me on to discover more about our > roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has > a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>> >>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved > with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently > realized his need for further training, and that lead him to > ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me > questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy > developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. > I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was > disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. > Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, > and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but > beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely > limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the > organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm > on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me > after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We > have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots > are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't > exist. >>> >>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done > an amazing job of making our history available to us. > www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the > parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are > available online going back 25 years, and important speeches > are available in both text and recorded form going back before > that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that > blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it > took to get out there every day and command respect from a > sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>> >>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization > accuse the older generation of the federation of being too > "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree > with how the older generation has approached some issues, when > you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to > be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a > greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a > long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I > think we've lost respect for our past. >>> >>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the > beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 > years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really > understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my > share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But > I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not > just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even > before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world > where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No > organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we > must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built > upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind > people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness > should not limit our life choices. >>> >>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our > history. We will all be better for it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Briley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% 40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheat her%40comcast.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat May 8 15:29:33 2010 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 10:29:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4be58360.d7b4e50a.0178.70f5@mx.google.com> Hello, I agree with many of your points very generally Heather. I also think Harry and Joe's voices/experiences/points are valid, sincere, and not felt by only a fringe minority. I do say though Heather that this is not a simple thing and the three things you mention can not in reality be separated from leadership, fundraising or veteran members as a causal relationship. I agree above all the local health is where the most crucial effect happens, but it is still a microcosm of what happens nationally. I agree all groups have a similarity because all groups are made of humans, but I think in some ways a better comparison would be with other organized civil right grassroots campaigns. Looking at that, as well as your church comparison, I believe leadership is fundamental, crucially. Take Dr. King and the non-violent methods and movement for change. It had both a bottom up and top down approach. But in every case in history the bottom-up needs defined and vibrant and visionary leadership. Dr. King inspired the very "bottom" and as well every level. He went out in person and was deeply involved with communicating and encouraging local groups. They worked with other groups such as the NAACP, even though often times the groups were in very heated disagreement. Dr. King worked hard with his staff to work together for common missions. He also went out and marched with everyday people. The incidents before his death are a perfect example. His staff and advisors did not think he should take the time to go help the sanitation workers in person. Dr. King disagreed. He saw the sanitation workers marching with signs that read "I am a Man". This was bottom up~these were not members necessarily but they were saying at the core, and peacefully, what the whole thing was about. Dr. King realized this and that he must go support them and that it would also help the overall national efforts to bring them in. His first attempt there was a disaster, violence broke out. He and his staff then met with locals who were prone to that, they came down strongly and got them turned around. Then Dr. King came back and they did it again, without the violence. People/Individuals could talk with Dr. King one on one. They all felt "he cares about me/us". When Dr. King was murdered, the whole movement really struggled...yes people went on but the effect was enormous. Leadership counts huge! Also as time went on, some of the "fights" became less obvious. Ironically because of the victories it became harder to rally groups around more subtle and hidden racism. And in a way that is the path, a civil rights organization mission should be in the end to truly put itself out of a mission. The very hard part is to keep active in that middle place, where maybe the battles are less obvious or less "glamorous". It (Dr. King's organization) also was very narrow in its philosophy (i.e. if you thought violence had a place, the Southern Leadership group was not the group for you and those voices were drummed out~obviously because at the heart of Dr. King's movement was non-violence. This is proper and any group with out a core philosophy which all agree to and embrace can not go in a straight line direction to its goal. They had staff trained with exact methods that worked~they paid local staff. Then they trained volunteers. They kept to a message and methods that worked. But they were also open to new ideas and gave locals the chance to make personal difference~to lay their own lives on the line...for a very specific thing. This really helped the movement. On the other hand, generalized group think can fill stadiums with loyal followers, but in the end those groups are less vibrant, less able to change with changing needs, and in the end I believe they die out with only in great part affecting those who fill the stadium. It can be a thing needing great finesse and understanding of the members and even more, leadership, to tell the line between group think and unified philosophy. The difference is monumental. Money is needed. Of course. But the methods of getting it are key. People turn away when they feel they are only useful for that. Or they raise money and then it is not spent appropriately. Or they raise money with basically a "spin" on the reason. People eventually realize this and feel it...it may work short term but not long term. Take a church which constantly asks for money but never spends any on missions, just the building fund. Well a lot of good people leave that kind if thing~and well there could be long discussions on that. Also some churches seem so desperate~you join and you can tell they look at new people as looking to you to fix what is broken, or maybe to do the jobs no one has wanted to. Some want to keep people working in the nursery for example, and only the same old same old get to lead a Bible study or speak from the podium. New ideas are feared or shunned. There are cliques of the "popular". This is human behavior that sneaks into all groups and the leadership has to be proactive in repealing it. And finally being totally open about how the staff are paid verses accounting with trails and attempts of veils of routes for the salaries to give an appearance or with a intended purpose to make an organization able to say something or give some image with "accuracy"...that kind of lowered integrity or IMO, scam, seeps in like a stain. Likewise shifting statistics and slanting in favor...this has a short term great soundbite and short term positive effect but does not stand the test of time. Often sadly the real statistics are bad enough and sources valid so it was not really needed...These points are very valid and how they are answered does indeed determine the long term health of an organization. And finally as Barbara Pierce always likes to say, "The world is run by the people who show up" If you don't show up you can have no effect at all. Carrie Gilmer -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 7:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the tree and the forest Hi all, It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some time or other. Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, discipled personally by other members of the church. This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works there it is. I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of the organisation must be made in the social context in which it operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are worth considering. 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do volunteer work. 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less leisure time for social group involvement. 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the incredible advances in medical competence, the development of technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights movement which has put the disability community out of institutions and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer transportation assistance. 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the respectability of blindness are harder to influence. 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the western world are adults over 65 years of age. The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask yourself the hard questions. I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of groups like the NFB. 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to take on leadership positions. 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. Regards, Heather Field ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at empowering and educating the membership as a whole. Thanks for your thoughts, Briley On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Briley, > > I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan > posts. > I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's > funny that > you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I > have to > contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our > generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is > almost > completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the > National > Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with > fundraising > and technological design that everyday philosophy has been > forgotten. It is > my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner > than the > engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 > years, > maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the > source, are > you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of > entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and > our purpose as an organization will better define that line > between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom > much is given, much is required, and I think people all too > often forget that. > > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: > >> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that > our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is > what we had to fight for! >> >> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, > but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever > be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some > stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement > attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to > be in the real world. >> >> Dave >> >> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>> Good afternoon all, >>> >>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel > is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a > movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly > didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago > when I began digging a little deeper. >>> >>> The federation has always been an important force in my > life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during > the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard > about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits > of information at state conventions or national events. But > most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is > understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the > obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily > basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, > life events have spurred me on to discover more about our > roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has > a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>> >>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved > with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently > realized his need for further training, and that lead him to > ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me > questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy > developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. > I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was > disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. > Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, > and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but > beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely > limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the > organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm > on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me > after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We > have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots > are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't > exist. >>> >>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done > an amazing job of making our history available to us. > www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the > parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are > available online going back 25 years, and important speeches > are available in both text and recorded form going back before > that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that > blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it > took to get out there every day and command respect from a > sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>> >>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization > accuse the older generation of the federation of being too > "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree > with how the older generation has approached some issues, when > you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to > be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a > greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a > long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I > think we've lost respect for our past. >>> >>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the > beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 > years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really > understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my > share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But > I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not > just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even > before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world > where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No > organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we > must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built > upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind > people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness > should not limit our life choices. >>> >>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our > history. We will all be better for it. >>> >>> Best, >>> Briley >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5080 (20100502) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info > for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcas t.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carrie.gilmer%40gmai l.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 8 15:30:29 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 11:30:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe, Excellently written. Very true too. While state affiliates and local chapters have some discression to make and carry out their own programs and plans its not independent of national since many boundaries come from it. I think your aspirations beyond NFB are great and commendable. Go for your dreams. You have a lot going for you as a young adult. While the young students, nabs, are active in some states, not enough are. I think its because what you said, about the time commitment and what nfb can offer. Unless you buy the whole package and go to a nfb center it seems like your impact is minimal. Yes you can vote in elections and do some activities, even help write state resolutions as a member, but to do major things it really takes a lot of time. That is time a working professional may not have if they're going to devote energy to other worthy causes beyond blindness. You said "Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB but are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company." Well said. I too have other aspirations as a young adult. I want to help impoverished people get food and impact disadvantaged children and youth. I guess just devote what time you can to nfb. I do it for the people it will impact just as you do, rather than for organizational doctrine. Its important to have a balance. Good point about carrying out the philosophy. What good is believing in the philosophy if you don't exercise that philosophy in the areas that interest you most? That's why I thought the semi active members, the other 90 percent, maybe, perhaps are more active in their lives doing non blindness activities. I don't know but if that is the case, they too are living the philosophy by making a difference changing public perception about the capabilities of blind people even though nfb may not give them credit. I'd write more, but speaking of time I am getting ready to go to a federal event in DC today. Good discussion and I'm planning to chime in later. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:40 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the tree and the forest > Dear Heather and all, > > A well-written, thought-provoking post as always. Yet I have to confess > it > was one of those messages where I heartily agreed with certain points and > completely disagreed with others. > > Your message says that what happens in our community is up to us > regardless > of what the national office decides to build or how it decides to spend > its > money. Unfortunately, even in the Christian church example you provide, > local branches, or in our case local chapters, cannot exist as independent > operations with little regard for the customs, norms and influence > promoted > by the central body. People in the NFB are asked to give up their free > time > to attend meetings, to volunteer between meetings, to make donations, and > to > budget for expensive trips to conventions across the state and across the > country. In a perfect world the warmth and camaraderie of one's own > community would be enough to satisfy one's need to know to what end their > time is being invested. Yet local chapters review presidential releases. > Veteran members strongly encourage freshmen to attend conventions, and the > freshmen and the curious succumb to these activities because it is human > nature to want to learn and do more. Modern technology makes it > impossible > to settle for small-town satisfaction. > > This in of itself is not anything negative. The national conventions are > large enough to accommodate individual interests. The problem comes into > play when the national body leans on state affiliates to produce more than > what the state affiliates can produce. What happens at the national level > very much impacts local communities, because ultimately it is up to the > general membership to help bring in the money to build what the national > office wants. I do not buy into the belief that major decisions are > dictated by convention resolutions, many of which are not fulfilled, but > the > level of tilted demand and fractured communication between the national > office and state affiliates are one reason we witness incidents like the > New > Hampshire affiliate collapse. New Hampshire is the rare exception, but > how > many other New Hampshires are there in our midst? > > You make the excellent point that what the organization looks like in > fifty > years will largely depend on what we as individuals choose to contribute. > That's an interesting proposal. I came into the organization almost nine > years ago, made a lot of noise, discovered that the best way to be heard > was > to do the hard work, did the hard work so that I could give my complaints > a > foundation, and even after some of my better efforts discovered that > diligent service only carries you so far. In my case, I could genuinely > care less if people like me as an individual so long as the ideas I > propose > to help blind people as a whole are given a fair audience. Hard work, it > seemed, was only appreciated so long as I followed the party line. > Conventions are the place to debate decisions, and any debate between > conventions is just unthinkable. Well, when it came to deciding whether I > would spend my time developing my professional aspirations or devoting my > time to an organization that only showed conditional appreciation for my > talents, the choice wasn't that difficult. > > Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the > organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB > but > are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours > necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other > aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human > trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those > areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company. > Does this somehow make my opinions less than worthy because I am not > giving > the organization 100 percent of my devotion? This logic, to me, suggests > that if you are blind, you would be wrong not to belong to the NFB and > pull > your full weight. Not all cancer survivors devote the balance of their > lives to finding a cure. Moreover, what good is believing in the > philosophy > if you do not exercise the philosophy in the areas that interest you most? > > I may very well be tuned into the wrong channel, but from where I'm > sitting > and the conversations I'm tapping into, people trip over themselves to > complain about this or make fun of that, youth and adults alike, but hold > them accountable in a public forum and it's all about amen to the glory of > the NFB. Give credit where credit is due, but we really will not survive > if > we only know how to give unquestioning allegiance to the people in power. > The NFB has historically questioned authority and raised a call to action > to > change that with which it did not agree. I take it the same cannot be > said > about internal calls for improvements? > > If only fully committed members are valued, then I guess I know where the > door is. Maybe there really is no one patient enough to tame this weapon. > Yet there is still the matter of the people yet to be brought in. These > are > people who are unfortunately made to feel less than perfect if they do not > attend one of our training centers. These are people who are made to feel > less loyal if they do not use one of our long canes. These are people who > are not deemed "normal" if their personal habits, social skills and > philosophies do not mesh with our own. As an example, one weekend I was > at > a leadership seminar at the National Center. A well-known student > accidentally dropped their plate in the dining room at dinner time. The > student was mortified not because they had dropped their plate, but > because > they had dropped their plate in the presence of other blind people in the > highly esteemed National Center. I mean, so much for all this nonsense > about how the National Center is supposed to be our house. I guarantee > that > if anyone from this list ever set foot into my home, you would never be > made > to feel as awkwardly uncomfortable as the National Center has the ability > to > make people feel. I felt so incredibly bad for the student in question > but > could honestly not think of what to say to make them feel better. > > It's arrogance in almost its purest form. I'm an arrogant guy and > appreciate the mentality, but the organization cannot afford to be so > condescending to the people who do not purchase the whole cow, not when > the > organization chooses to isolate itself from other cross disability groups > and thinks its methods of doing things are better than even other > blindness > organizations. I think I could count the number of times the NFB has > partnered up with other groups to send a message. > > And so here we are. I feel good about the service I provided to the NFB > in > my more active years. I fully intend to use my resources to try to help > divisions, affiliates and local chapters expand their operations as soon > as > I can give the project proper attention, but to be honest, I do it because > I > care about the people more than I care about the organization and its > doctrine. Somewhere along the way banquet speeches weren't enough to > mobilize my efforts, and at the moment the only thing the NFB can offer me > is the opportunity to raise money for projects with no short-term benefits > to the people who genuinely need help getting educated and employed. My > hard-earned dollars seem to be better spent on hungry families in > Washington > DC by way of my church. > > I believe the NFB will fade away in due course not because there will no > longer be a need for proper advocacy on behalf of the blind. Rather, it > will fade away because the up and coming generation will figure out that > it > can accomplish what the NFB wants to achieve and then some, and be more > inclusive about it. As Heather pointed out, this generation is not a > generation of joiners. The ones who do make it their life's work to help > the blind need only come up with one good alternative to make both the NFB > and ACB irrelevant, only, one, alternative. > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the > tree and the forest > > Hi all, > It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", > "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about > the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as > it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, > let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar > groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of > how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs > which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want > to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some > time or other. > > Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian > churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. > Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and > keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal > friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and > get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, > discipled personally by other members of the church. > > This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, > get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical > interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of > the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by > friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are > the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training > classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by > strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a > local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a > smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works > there it is. > > I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to > get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying > that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people > down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of > the organisation must be made in the social context in which it > operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are > worth considering. > > 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do > volunteer work. > 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and > commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. > 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less > leisure time for social group involvement. > 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much > larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the > incredible advances in medical competence, the development of > technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights > movement which has put the disability community out of institutions > and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite > resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer > transportation assistance. > 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of > education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up > with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the > blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more > difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the > respectability of blindness are harder to influence. > 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the > western world are adults over 65 years of age. > > The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different > from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen > nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive > for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why > are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused > on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is > to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to > increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever > the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my > town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB > philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth > and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that > new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of > encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside > them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a > better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to > meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all > my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical > presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can > be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask > yourself the hard questions. > > I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is > person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new > members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, > scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of > groups like the NFB. > 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to > take on leadership positions. > 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the > work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work > occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of > techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. > > What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will > determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. > > Regards, > > Heather Field > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > > I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 > years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted > at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that > we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the > leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is > just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the > specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard > is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While > I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may > be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as > someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at > empowering and educating the membership as a whole. > > Thanks for your thoughts, > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Briley, >> >> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >> posts. >> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's >> funny that >> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I >> have to >> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >> almost >> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >> National >> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >> fundraising >> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been >> forgotten. It is >> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner >> than the >> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 >> years, >> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the >> source, are >> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> >> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >> often forget that. >> >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >> what we had to fight for! >>> >>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >> be in the real world. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>> Good afternoon all, >>>> >>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>> >>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >> of information at state conventions or national events. But >> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>> >>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't >> exist. >>>> >>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>> >>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>> >>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >> should not limit our life choices. >>>> >>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >> history. We will all be better for it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Briley >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheat > her%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat May 8 15:57:44 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 11:57:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile Message-ID: Hi Sean: Thanks for your input--don't worry, I'm looking for the honest user opinions, specially you guys who know both sides of the coin. I tend to trust the consumers more then the techies on this, cause sometimes the geek squads get tied up by all sorts of tech specs which don't matter in the long run. Ok. My next question would again be 2 parts. 1. Which phone is better? N82 or N86? Secondly: Can you use wifi on these phones? If so, how reliable is it? Thanks. Jorge From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Sat May 8 17:05:21 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 12:05:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo Hello All, I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. Thanks!   Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will see the link below. Rania, From: Jewel S. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! ~jEWEL On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: > >> >>---------- >>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>To: Danielsen, Chris >>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >> >>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >> >>Best, >>Mary >>*** >> >>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >> >>1. DVS on DVD >>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. >> >>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >> >>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>movies. >> >>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>information about movies offered with >>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems.  >>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>and accessible showtimes near you. >> >>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. >> >>Thank you. >> >>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>Boston – Los Angeles >>access.wgbh.org >>617 300-3700 >>access at wgbh.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 01:26:00 From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat May 8 17:28:06 2010 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 12:28:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific facts~really scientific? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4be59f29.68b1e70a.2cef.78c9@mx.google.com> Sorry Heather but I am tired of these statements, I think they are used too often as a cop out and excuse. And are they really scientifically verified as facts? Really? "I will close by sharing another two, scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of groups like the NFB." 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to take on leadership positions. IT depends on the definition of leadership>there are many leadership roles...is this only officers? Or heads of committees? Or leaders of a local one time specific thing like a fundraiser or a picnic? OR is it who will talk to the legislators when we all get in the office? How many times is it the same 10% doing it because it is so micromanaged by the 10% and they are afraid to give any one else a chance lest they "mess-up", power grubbing attention seeking themselves, the 10% just do with little effort on giving the 90% training/actual experience/encouragement to lead in some fashion, or the 10% insist on doing the same ineffective thing in the same ineffective way because that is how we do it. We all have experienced that in reality~only those who can face it and do something proactive about this factor in every human group succeed. 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. I really hate this one, seriously, I think it is cliché and a cop out not scientific fact of gravity or some thing that has to be. Those who have near 100% doing SOME work with all the passion and energy they do have to give are the groups who welcome with open arms and meet the realities of the tendencies mentioned in my response to #1. People do show up when they feel valued and have some thing real to do that they can tangibly feel has some effect either now or in the future and they are inspired to do so. Of course there are also always lazy complainers who just complain or those who only want to take and not give~but I find they are a minority in a group that has a vibrant vision, does not micromanage its grassroots members like children or use them as puppets, and values and encourages and REWARDS efforts on its behalf. "What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years." That is for sure heather. carrie From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sat May 8 17:28:06 2010 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 12:28:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4be59f2a.68b1e70a.2cef.78ca@mx.google.com> Heather, While I very much agree with much of what you had to say generally I think some of the numbered points you have are not that simple or even totally accurate in my experience or observations. 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do volunteer work. I really doubt this in INCLINATION, and while it may be true that statistically they actually do less in a very very general sense, there are lots and lots of young people very vibrantly volunteering and the inclination in people still exists in this generation. I think one difference may be that the young people look much more critically at what it is they give their time to. They are less willing to sit around in long meetings that appear to have little action oriented purpose. They are more inclined to want to be a part of direct impact volunteer efforts. 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. I don't think ,again, they are less inclined, I think the number and types of service clubs are much more varied today and there are more of them...spreading the young people out. And again I think the membership today is less (but only somewhat) inclined to join "mindlessly" or out of a generalized sense of civic duty than to a specific purpose/time...i.e. joining up "temporarily" for a specific purpose or project. On the other hand I know tons of young people who feel a sense of "civic" duty and join service clubs/groups especially for the poor or homeless or environmental or educational or inner city concerns....they want to have a direct and visible impact. 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less leisure time for social group involvement. The people who participated in the bus boycotts in the civil rights movement had no real leisure time. In fact they may have had less leisure time than many today. Truthfully our society overall has more leisure time than ever in history but we also are more selfish about taking our leisure time for leisure. A specific purpose whereby people think their involvement will actually change their circumstance or that of someone else's will call many; leisure or no leisure time. 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the incredible advances in medical competence, the development of technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights movement which has put the disability community out of institutions and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer transportation assistance. This is true in that there seems to be an organized group for everything under the sun~whether it is gumchewers united (fairly large group) or People for the Better understanding of the value of Mosquitos (a few minority of people who are coming from a side issue of those who love bats). But either group gets its strength from the same kinds of things. The good news is that more than ever minority groups can be heard and cheaply get world wide attention with new technologies and learned tried and true methods of organizing. The loudest and the most persistent get what they need~ done by those who show up. Get one celebrity~one sympathy factor~one message to make many identify~can zoom you ahead...money also does make a big difference...the people who go after it full time seriously do benefit from that. 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the respectability of blindness are harder to influence. Except for that blind children used to know more blind peers growing up because of residential schools for the blind, I think it is not true that less today have a contact with a formal group of/for the blind. I do not think networking or mentoring is more difficult necessarily~the kids may be harder to find cuz they are not all at one school in the state, but this can and has been overcome with some simple but very persistent and widespread effort. 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the western world are adults over 65 years of age. This is true. And it is a different focus initially, these people are much less likely to be focused on civil/educational/employment rights and much more on how do I live the rest of my life functioning without eyesight. However, once they are initially helped they are a pool of people who may have more time to volunteer, have life work and skill experience that can be extremely valuable, have some $$$$$, have professional networks for resources to tap, and can be made to understand how it is to grow up with what they are living with now~ and can be inspired to make a difference for the future. This fact could be a great asset if we use it/tap into it right. My ops:) Carrie~hope you are well heather~I miss you:) From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat May 8 17:46:10 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 13:46:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc Message-ID: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Hello all, I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and yet, temptations abound. 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you have over the applications in your computer. 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be compatible with PC products. 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that makes Office documents readable? 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of how well they meet my daily task expectations. Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat May 8 17:58:48 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 12:58:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> References: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: <000001caeed8$1ce27430$56a75c90$@com> I notice when I go to download a movie from blindmicemart.com that the SendSpace, after I register for free, still gives the "high speed download" and "regular download." No matter which I click on, I still get the same options about paying per month, etc. I never see the name of my movie as a link to click on; all it says is, "You are about to down load:," and tells me the size, etc. Thoughts/suggestions? Thanks! Harry -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:05 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo Hello All, I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. Thanks!   Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will see the link below. Rania, From: Jewel S. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! ~jEWEL On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: > >> >>---------- >>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>To: Danielsen, Chris >>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >> >>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >> >>Best, >>Mary >>*** >> >>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >> >>1. DVS on DVD >>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. >> >>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >> >>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>movies. >> >>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>information about movies offered with >>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems.  >>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>and accessible showtimes near you. >> >>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. >> >>Thank you. >> >>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>Boston – Los Angeles >>access.wgbh.org >>617 300-3700 >>access at wgbh.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 01:26:00 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sat May 8 17:59:33 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 13:59:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Brief Plug for iPad Message-ID: <7EED006DEA0B43728756687C379951CC@Rufus> >From CNET: Apple's iPad has been enjoying some free advertising as of late. Reports broke last week that the prime minister of Norway was using the tablet to govern from an airport. And now, a story has surfaced claiming a 99-year-old Portland, Ore., area woman is using the iPad to overcome medical woes. According to a report in The Oregonian, Virginia Campbell, of Lake Oswego, Ore., suffers from glaucoma, making it extremely difficult to engage in her favorite pastimes: reading and writing. After hearing about the iPad, Campbell, an alumnus of Portland's Reed College, decided that the tablet could be the tool she needed to get back to enjoying reading and writing. And she was right. The iPad has "changed her life," Campbell's daughter Ginny Adelsheim told The Oregonian in an interview. According to Adelsheim, her mother is now reading books on the iPad, thanks to its ability to increase the size of text to a readable level. Campbell has also increased the brightness on the display to further enhance her reading experience. And although she has never owned a computer, she is now writing poetry on the tablet. Perhaps fittingly, Campbell decided write the following limerick tribute to Apple's iPad: "To this technology-ninny it's clear In my compromised 100th year, That to read and to write Are again within sight Of this Apple iPad pioneer." A YouTube video of Campbell using her iPad, above, has been viewed 46,816 times so far. "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Sat May 8 20:16:02 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 14:16:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000d01caeeeb$47f2f330$d7d8d990$@org> Hi Kerri, First of all, none of your questions are stupid or even tedious. The best way to learn any of this is to ask in a safe place like this list. Here are a few suggestions regarding cabs and strange bars. You could find out if your cab company will put in a time call for you so you'll know approximately when a cab will be picking you up from the bar. You could also ask the driver who drops you off if he could come back at a designated time to get you. You could ask one of the waitresses or female patrons for directions or guidance to the bathroom or another quiet place where you can make your call, if the first two suggestions don't work out. Then you could put your phone on vibrate and keep it in a pocket so you would know when a cab is calling you from outside. Most bartenders or waitresses will try to keep there eyes out for a cab if they aren't extremely busy, especially for someone who is blind. Now, as for the mall, most people will try to give you some help or directions if you ask the right questions. When you go to the information desk, you can ask where the food court is in relation to the movie theater, ie. Is it on the same floor? Which end of the mall is it on? What major stores or landmarks are near it, like a fountain or other center display? When you have the answers to some of these things, you can ask other mall patrons for directions that will give you a better chance to get where you want to go. I know that most of us have been taught not to talk to strangers as kids, but the reality of it is that as a blind person, you will talk to many people in malls or other public places, and most of the experiences will be helpful. God out there. Enjoy the movies and a nice bar. With some common sense, persistence, and good preparation you can have plenty of good times in unfamiliar places. If you want to talk off list, my email is mrsmigs at migliorelli.org From brileyp at gmail.com Sat May 8 21:17:34 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 16:17:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the others who have been using Macs longer than I. I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with viruses, computer crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used it exclusively, (gave up Windows cold turkey as it were), since December. Here are my general impressions. You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow Leopard isn't Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives me just as much control over everything I need, (internet, music, word processing, EMail, etc), as Jaws, just in a different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, and it was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in Voiceover since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I don't miss Jaws at all, and I'd been using it for twelve years. The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than Outlook to me. Of course, I find everything on the Mac very easy to understand. I think this fits in though with the general commentary that Macs are really user friendly and self explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I stopped trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS reader is built right in. Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For example, I have my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over a link in the browser, it beeps instead of saying "link". You can also change it so that way it says link before the link text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is easily tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I find it does a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my word processing needs so far, but there are accessible options for office suite applications. I don't have them, so someone else might want to expound on IWork, but I've heard great things. Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple has been great at responding to accessibility requests. For example, I EMailed them after the recent ITunes update to inform them of some issues I was having. I got an EMail response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 EMails a day like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were solved. It is an attitude of universal access. I've just grown to semi expect that an application will work, and I have very rarely encountered things that are inaccessible to me, (as long as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew that). The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. It has gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes navigating around the system really intuitive. The internet is a breeze. I just need a few fingers, and I'm set to go. I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know computer problems happen on every platform, but I've experienced none thus far. If Voiceover gets cranky, (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a few weeks), I just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen reader and a new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it all became natural to me. I turned on my roommate's computer the other day, and kept trying to make Jaws work with Voiceover commands. I also installed some software for her, and the process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me on my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no fussing from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of things for me. I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll repost. If you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, let me know. I'd be happy to demo it for you. Briley On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello all, > > I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very > interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to > switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as > I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and > yet, temptations abound. > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in > terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system > upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to > compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know > it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit > different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you > have over the applications in your computer. > > 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? > I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be > compatible with PC products. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use > their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that > makes Office documents readable? > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks > but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great > but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering > if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't > much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do > that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping > those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date > information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that > even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of > how well they meet my daily task expectations. > > Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sat May 8 21:20:05 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sat, 08 May 2010 17:20:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc Message-ID: Hi Joe: I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the results. Your questions are addressed below: 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in terms of the screen reader? It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and usability. Is the screen reader only updated with system upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? Yes. For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." If you had to compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you have over the applications in your computer. 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that makes Office documents readable? Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% inaccessible. Complete control. I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% inaccessible. 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't use that. You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? Yes. Apple stores and authorized retalors. Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. If you're in the field--that's debatable. Hope that helps. Jorge From lilrichie411 at gmail.com Sat May 8 21:37:04 2010 From: lilrichie411 at gmail.com (Jordan Richardson) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 16:37:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics In-Reply-To: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> References: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> Message-ID: Harry, Don't quote me on this, and if someone else knows something else please feel free to give your sentiments, but I believe that the American Foundation for the Blind has these sort of statistics. I would also imagine that the NFB would conduct studies every so often. However, don't quote me on that. Jordan 2nd VP, MnABS On 07/05/2010, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am writing because I am curious to know something. We always hear about > the 70 percent unemployment rate, and that X number (93%?) of employed blind > people read and write Braille, etc. I never see, however, where the facts > are obtained. I have never seen a source, other than the NFB. How does the > NFB get it's facts and figures, and what instrument do they use for > measurement? > > > > I have always been taught never to take for truth what is said, just because > it is stated, and it occurred to me recently that anytime facts or figures > are mentioned there is never a source. Has anyone else wondered this? I do > not mean to say the NFB is wrong, or start any sort of debate; I am simply > quite honestly curious. > > > > Wishing you all well, > > > > Harry Hogue > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com “It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come.” --Dalai Lama From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Sat May 8 21:37:30 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 14:37:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> Are MAC's compatible with Braille displays? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > Hello all, > > I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very > interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to > switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, > as > I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, > and > yet, temptations abound. > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed > in > terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system > upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to > compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I > know > it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit > different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you > have over the applications in your computer. > > 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software > packages? > I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to > be > compatible with PC products. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use > their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that > makes Office documents readable? > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks > but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be > great > but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm > wondering > if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I > don't > much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to > do > that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping > those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date > information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that > even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense > of > how well they meet my daily task expectations. > > Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat May 8 21:48:18 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] I made it to berklee. any pointers In-Reply-To: References: <411985.65688.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well Now I'm frustrated. I don't know if I got the scholarship and I am going ot call them on monday and find out. All wish me luck. I hope I don't have to push it til spring to get in. Take care all. S On May 3, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Jewel S. wrote: > That sure is short notice! Do what you do for your professors during > the regular semesters while at Berkeley...talk to them prior to the > first class, discuss any accommodations you might need, and work out > any kinks. Make sure they know what you need, and be ready to remind > them (like "Professor, could you tell me what you just put on the > overhead?"). Congratulations on getting there, and enjoy your time. > Don't stress out too much! > > Take a look at roommates.com, apartmentfinder.com, and craigslist.org > for apartments and roommate situations. Hopefully you can find > something! > > ~Jewel > > On 5/3/10, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> Well, I found out I start May 18. The website said jul 1 and the scholarship >> committee will decide if I get the thing this week. I think this is unfair. >> I think they should have given me more time to prepare. I am not packed and >> nothing is bought. I thought I'd have tome to find a place to stay during >> the summer but I guess not. I don't want to put myself in an unsafe >> situation. >> >> All of this is making me stress so what do I do now besides breathe? Lol. >> On May 2, 2010, at 6:42 PM, Rob wrote: >> >>> Congrats on the admission. I will miss seeing you around campus. >>> >>> Sent from my iPod >>> >>> On May 2, 2010, at 12:22 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>> Hello to all. >>> >>> I made it to berklee for the summer session. I don't yet have a place to >>> live but will hopefully get that worked out as I know some people who >>> attend there. >>> >>> Any pointers in regard to classes and stuff I might need to be aware of? >>> >>> Take care. >>> >>> a nervous >>> >>> Sarah >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Sat May 8 23:38:17 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 18:38:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001301caef07$899b0d10$9cd12730$@com> George, I have used neither the N82 or N86, so I will be of little help on that front. I do believe that you can use wifi on both of them, but you should confirm that with somebody who is certain. Sean From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 8 23:10:00 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 19:10:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences Message-ID: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> Hi all, Can you share what volunteering you've done. I think volunteering has many beneficial purposes including building skills, experience, networking, and a way to help the community. Often organizations serve blind and disabled people, so if we volunteer we can serve being on the other end. I am putting out volunteer applications to nonprofits while I look for a job; I don't want a big gap on my resume. I volunteered at my talking book library checking/rewinding tapes. I also volunteered at a shelter with my church. I tutored children as well with Campus ministry in college. But have not done too much in depth. Anyone volunteered at a food bank at a warehouse where you sort food? Soup kitchen? I've thought about that but not sure if its visual; I mean would you need to read labels to sort food items. For serving at a soup kitchen, I imagine its big with lots of people; I wonder if you need to see the dishes and people so you know they are there to serve. I know once I have the dish, serving can be done by just placing the food on the plate and I can judge the amount and where the food is by feeling with the utensil. I have tunnel vision so I'd use that too. I'm also looking into volunteering at hospitals and nonprofit offices. I don't foresee much access issues in the office as long as jaws is compatable with the programs on their computers. Any advice or ideas would be helpful. Thanks. Ashley From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sat May 8 23:10:52 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 19:10:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> References: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: It can be difficult to find with a screenreader. I can do it equally with NVDA and Jaws (I have a demo version of JAWS 11.0). When you click on the title of the movie, it brings up a new window. Press B for button once to get to "High Speed Download." This is the one that costs, so unless you have a subscription, click the down arrow once to get to "Regular Download." It will open yet another window. This window has a bunch of junk and embedded objects, and it's crazy. However, I have found an easy way to bypass all that. When you get to that window, make sure you are at the top and click N for non-link text until you come to "Note". Arrow up several times (I think 4) until you find the link, which will be the title of the movie plus .mp3. This is the quickest way I use, as the find function with NVDA is complicated. However, if you are using JAWS, you can do a CTRL+F, type in the name of the movie, or a part...for example, for "Might Ducks" you might put in "Ducks"...it will come to the title in text, then the link. Click that link, which again will be the name of the movie + .mp3 When you click that link, it brings up a download manager window. It asks to open, save, or cancel. I highly recommend saving it, so you can watch it anytime you want. I have a seperate folder called "My Movies" that I put my movies in (I have almost 200!). Hopefully you'll be able to do it with these instructions. It's a matter of getting to the final download link. Once you find that, you're good to go. Do *not* download the download from the site...it gave my computer viruses and spyware up the kazoo! ~Jewel On 5/8/10, Rania wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Steven Max-Faults > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > > > Hello All, > > I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They > have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download > from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I > think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. > Thanks! > > > > Steven > > > > Steven Max-Faults > > > > SteveMax83 at yahoo.com > > 917-865-6953 (Mobile) > > --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download > link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will > see the link below. > Rania, > > From: Jewel S. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive > Video > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM > > yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK > ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY > DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO > DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, > OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH > VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO > MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! > > jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! > > ~jEWEL > > On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> >>>---------- >>>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>>To: Danielsen, Chris >>>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >>> >>>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >>> >>>Best, >>>Mary >>>*** >>> >>>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >>> >>>1. DVS on DVD >>>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. >>> >>>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >>> >>>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>>movies. >>> >>>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>>information about movies offered with >>>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems. >>>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>>and accessible showtimes near you. >>> >>>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>>you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. >>> >>>Thank you. >>> >>>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>>Boston – Los Angeles >>>access.wgbh.org >>>617 300-3700 >>>access at wgbh.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >> 40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c > om > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 > 01:26:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From aphelps at BISM.org Sat May 8 23:19:51 2010 From: aphelps at BISM.org (Amy Phelps) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 19:19:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics References: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> Message-ID: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC019F7832@blindmail.BISM.COM> Somewhere in the back of my memory I have the answer to this. I want to think that Dr. Ruby Rials at Louisiana Tech University, Professional Institute on Development and Research on Blindness conducted this study. Check with the Director Edward C Bell, Phd. He can give you some information on the study as well. http://www.pdrib.com/index.php Then, I also wonder if Dr. Fred Schroeder did the study. Either way, Dr. Bell can give you more information. ________________________________ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Jordan Richardson Sent: Sat 5/8/2010 5:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics Harry, Don't quote me on this, and if someone else knows something else please feel free to give your sentiments, but I believe that the American Foundation for the Blind has these sort of statistics. I would also imagine that the NFB would conduct studies every so often. However, don't quote me on that. Jordan 2nd VP, MnABS On 07/05/2010, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am writing because I am curious to know something. We always hear about > the 70 percent unemployment rate, and that X number (93%?) of employed blind > people read and write Braille, etc. I never see, however, where the facts > are obtained. I have never seen a source, other than the NFB. How does the > NFB get it's facts and figures, and what instrument do they use for > measurement? > > > > I have always been taught never to take for truth what is said, just because > it is stated, and it occurred to me recently that anytime facts or figures > are mentioned there is never a source. Has anyone else wondered this? I do > not mean to say the NFB is wrong, or start any sort of debate; I am simply > quite honestly curious. > > > > Wishing you all well, > > > > Harry Hogue > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail.com > -- Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come." --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 5704 bytes Desc: not available URL: From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat May 8 23:57:05 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 18:57:05 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: <000001caeed8$1ce27430$56a75c90$@com> References: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> <000001caeed8$1ce27430$56a75c90$@com> Message-ID: <000301caef0a$2a1c7560$7e556020$@com> I discovered the issue; IE was the problem-I switched to Firefox and things worked perfectly. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Harry Hogue Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:59 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo I notice when I go to download a movie from blindmicemart.com that the SendSpace, after I register for free, still gives the "high speed download" and "regular download." No matter which I click on, I still get the same options about paying per month, etc. I never see the name of my movie as a link to click on; all it says is, "You are about to down load:," and tells me the size, etc. Thoughts/suggestions? Thanks! Harry -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Rania Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:05 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo Hello All, I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. Thanks!   Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will see the link below. Rania, From: Jewel S. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive Video To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! ~jEWEL On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: > >> >>---------- >>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>To: Danielsen, Chris >>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >> >>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >> >>Best, >>Mary >>*** >> >>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >> >>1. DVS on DVD >>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. >> >>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >> >>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>movies. >> >>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>information about movies offered with >>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems.  >>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>and accessible showtimes near you. >> >>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. >> >>Thank you. >> >>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>Boston – Los Angeles >>access.wgbh.org >>617 300-3700 >>access at wgbh.org > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% > 40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c om _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 01:26:00 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun May 9 01:38:02 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:38:02 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: Briley, Excellent post. Thank you so much for the quick and thorough response. I too am curious as to how compatible a Mac would be with something like the Braille Sense Plus or Braille displays in general. What about documentation? I've heard there is no real manual to explain the functionality of Voiceover, but is this primarily because the screen reader is pretty intuitive? Is there a quick start guide of sorts? Thanks again.--Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: Briley Pollard [mailto:brileyp at gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 5:18 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the others who have been using Macs longer than I. I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with viruses, computer crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used it exclusively, (gave up Windows cold turkey as it were), since December. Here are my general impressions. You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow Leopard isn't Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives me just as much control over everything I need, (internet, music, word processing, EMail, etc), as Jaws, just in a different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, and it was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in Voiceover since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I don't miss Jaws at all, and I'd been using it for twelve years. The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than Outlook to me. Of course, I find everything on the Mac very easy to understand. I think this fits in though with the general commentary that Macs are really user friendly and self explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I stopped trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS reader is built right in. Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For example, I have my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over a link in the browser, it beeps instead of saying "link". You can also change it so that way it says link before the link text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is easily tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I find it does a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my word processing needs so far, but there are accessible options for office suite applications. I don't have them, so someone else might want to expound on IWork, but I've heard great things. Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple has been great at responding to accessibility requests. For example, I EMailed them after the recent ITunes update to inform them of some issues I was having. I got an EMail response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 EMails a day like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were solved. It is an attitude of universal access. I've just grown to semi expect that an application will work, and I have very rarely encountered things that are inaccessible to me, (as long as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew that). The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. It has gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes navigating around the system really intuitive. The internet is a breeze. I just need a few fingers, and I'm set to go. I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know computer problems happen on every platform, but I've experienced none thus far. If Voiceover gets cranky, (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a few weeks), I just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen reader and a new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it all became natural to me. I turned on my roommate's computer the other day, and kept trying to make Jaws work with Voiceover commands. I also installed some software for her, and the process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me on my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no fussing from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of things for me. I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll repost. If you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, let me know. I'd be happy to demo it for you. Briley On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello all, > > I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very > interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to > switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as > I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and > yet, temptations abound. > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in > terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system > upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to > compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know > it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit > different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you > have over the applications in your computer. > > 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? > I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be > compatible with PC products. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use > their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that > makes Office documents readable? > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks > but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great > but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering > if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't > much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do > that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping > those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date > information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that > even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of > how well they meet my daily task expectations. > > Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% 40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun May 9 02:20:47 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 22:20:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com><745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com><2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <000001caee8b$a5ef03d0$f1cd0b70$@com> Message-ID: I agree about how people supposedly aren't good Federationists if they don't go to NFB training centers. Really, if you have a goal for yourself, you can achieve it, without NFB training, as long as you already know the philosophy. I set a goal to learn public transportation. Thanks to my mom and a really great cane teacher from the Commission--a really great team--and, most of all, my hard worrk, I'm almost ready to start learning it! My NFB president, Joe Ruffalo, believes you don't have to believe everything the NFB says or do all of what the organization wants you to do, as long as you know what you're doing. E.G., if you know you could go somewhere alone, but choose to use sighted guide on a particular day, he says, go for it! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Hogue" To: ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 4:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the tree and the forest > Joe, > I so > Completely agree with your post , particularly concerning making people > feel bad for not attending training centers (as if they are somehow > lacking). I have noticed that it is more or less assumed, in some cases, > that if someone is blind and has not gone to a training center (NFB or > not), > then they are necessarily less competent, etc. I have always said that > life > is what you make of it, and the most value you gain from any experience, > be > that at a training center or through living life in its various stages, is > a > different perspective. It is said that there cannot possibly be any new > ideas, as all of the ideas have already been thought of by someone before > you. In this case, a new idea is not what is needed (do this, don't do > that, and so forth), but a new perspective. Change your perspective and > you > will change your world. > > It may sound selfish to some, but I say if you first live for yourself and > then live to help others you will be on the right track, because you are > no > good to anyone if you are not first comfortable within your own skin, and > first take care of your needs. No organization should become your life, > whether that it religious, advocacy, or what have you. You should have > your > family, your profession (work) life, and then things about which you are > passionate (cancer groups, NFB, helping children, etc). This should fall > in > with this category. If blindness is a characteristic, then I am going to > live my life to show this; it makes me very angry when people make out > like > I am responsible to all blind people in the world to raise money, promote > this or that program, and so forth. And, I have to freely admit that part > of this is the fact that I do not like anything which resembles > unquestioning obedience or fellowship -- that is to say, I take what I > need > from such things and leave the rest. I do not hold as closely to the > church > of my childhood for this reason, but that is a discussion for another > time. > The same is with the NFB. We are never told where they get their > statistics, but are just expected to accept them unquestioningly as true > and > accurate. Once I got in college and began to question things around me, I > realized how ridiculous many things are in the world, and religion was one > (again, different discussion, as it has absolutely no relevance here), and > that led me to think about how so many people never question what they are > taught, and just accept it with no proof. The other thing is this: > organizations love buzzwords. They love to throw them around, and they > write their literature, deliver their speeches, and promote their programs > with the clear message that they, and they alone have the answer and are > right, and anyone who disagrees is stupid. This is a common thread with > organizations/religious groups, if you notice. The point I want to > emphasize is the "we have the answers," part. My basic thing I like to > remember about people is this: Everyone thinks they're right, everyone > knows best, everyone always has the answer, and no one can disagree or > you're stupid. This goes for individuals as well as groups. And, then > again, maybe I'm just scinical, bitter, and all the rest of it. But these > are only my thoughts. > > Thanks for your time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:40 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and > the forest > > Dear Heather and all, > > A well-written, thought-provoking post as always. Yet I have to confess > it > was one of those messages where I heartily agreed with certain points and > completely disagreed with others. > > Your message says that what happens in our community is up to us > regardless > of what the national office decides to build or how it decides to spend > its > money. Unfortunately, even in the Christian church example you provide, > local branches, or in our case local chapters, cannot exist as independent > operations with little regard for the customs, norms and influence > promoted > by the central body. People in the NFB are asked to give up their free > time > to attend meetings, to volunteer between meetings, to make donations, and > to > budget for expensive trips to conventions across the state and across the > country. In a perfect world the warmth and camaraderie of one's own > community would be enough to satisfy one's need to know to what end their > time is being invested. Yet local chapters review presidential releases. > Veteran members strongly encourage freshmen to attend conventions, and the > freshmen and the curious succumb to these activities because it is human > nature to want to learn and do more. Modern technology makes it > impossible > to settle for small-town satisfaction. > > This in of itself is not anything negative. The national conventions are > large enough to accommodate individual interests. The problem comes into > play when the national body leans on state affiliates to produce more than > what the state affiliates can produce. What happens at the national level > very much impacts local communities, because ultimately it is up to the > general membership to help bring in the money to build what the national > office wants. I do not buy into the belief that major decisions are > dictated by convention resolutions, many of which are not fulfilled, but > the > level of tilted demand and fractured communication between the national > office and state affiliates are one reason we witness incidents like the > New > Hampshire affiliate collapse. New Hampshire is the rare exception, but > how > many other New Hampshires are there in our midst? > > You make the excellent point that what the organization looks like in > fifty > years will largely depend on what we as individuals choose to contribute. > That's an interesting proposal. I came into the organization almost nine > years ago, made a lot of noise, discovered that the best way to be heard > was > to do the hard work, did the hard work so that I could give my complaints > a > foundation, and even after some of my better efforts discovered that > diligent service only carries you so far. In my case, I could genuinely > care less if people like me as an individual so long as the ideas I > propose > to help blind people as a whole are given a fair audience. Hard work, it > seemed, was only appreciated so long as I followed the party line. > Conventions are the place to debate decisions, and any debate between > conventions is just unthinkable. Well, when it came to deciding whether I > would spend my time developing my professional aspirations or devoting my > time to an organization that only showed conditional appreciation for my > talents, the choice wasn't that difficult. > > Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the > organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB > but > are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours > necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other > aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human > trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those > areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company. > Does this somehow make my opinions less than worthy because I am not > giving > the organization 100 percent of my devotion? This logic, to me, suggests > that if you are blind, you would be wrong not to belong to the NFB and > pull > your full weight. Not all cancer survivors devote the balance of their > lives to finding a cure. Moreover, what good is believing in the > philosophy > if you do not exercise the philosophy in the areas that interest you most? > > I may very well be tuned into the wrong channel, but from where I'm > sitting > and the conversations I'm tapping into, people trip over themselves to > complain about this or make fun of that, youth and adults alike, but hold > them accountable in a public forum and it's all about amen to the glory of > the NFB. Give credit where credit is due, but we really will not survive > if > we only know how to give unquestioning allegiance to the people in power. > The NFB has historically questioned authority and raised a call to action > to > change that with which it did not agree. I take it the same cannot be > said > about internal calls for improvements? > > If only fully committed members are valued, then I guess I know where the > door is. Maybe there really is no one patient enough to tame this weapon. > Yet there is still the matter of the people yet to be brought in. These > are > people who are unfortunately made to feel less than perfect if they do not > attend one of our training centers. These are people who are made to feel > less loyal if they do not use one of our long canes. These are people who > are not deemed "normal" if their personal habits, social skills and > philosophies do not mesh with our own. As an example, one weekend I was > at > a leadership seminar at the National Center. A well-known student > accidentally dropped their plate in the dining room at dinner time. The > student was mortified not because they had dropped their plate, but > because > they had dropped their plate in the presence of other blind people in the > highly esteemed National Center. I mean, so much for all this nonsense > about how the National Center is supposed to be our house. I guarantee > that > if anyone from this list ever set foot into my home, you would never be > made > to feel as awkwardly uncomfortable as the National Center has the ability > to > make people feel. I felt so incredibly bad for the student in question > but > could honestly not think of what to say to make them feel better. > > It's arrogance in almost its purest form. I'm an arrogant guy and > appreciate the mentality, but the organization cannot afford to be so > condescending to the people who do not purchase the whole cow, not when > the > organization chooses to isolate itself from other cross disability groups > and thinks its methods of doing things are better than even other > blindness > organizations. I think I could count the number of times the NFB has > partnered up with other groups to send a message. > > And so here we are. I feel good about the service I provided to the NFB > in > my more active years. I fully intend to use my resources to try to help > divisions, affiliates and local chapters expand their operations as soon > as > I can give the project proper attention, but to be honest, I do it because > I > care about the people more than I care about the organization and its > doctrine. Somewhere along the way banquet speeches weren't enough to > mobilize my efforts, and at the moment the only thing the NFB can offer me > is the opportunity to raise money for projects with no short-term benefits > to the people who genuinely need help getting educated and employed. My > hard-earned dollars seem to be better spent on hungry families in > Washington > DC by way of my church. > > I believe the NFB will fade away in due course not because there will no > longer be a need for proper advocacy on behalf of the blind. Rather, it > will fade away because the up and coming generation will figure out that > it > can accomplish what the NFB wants to achieve and then some, and be more > inclusive about it. As Heather pointed out, this generation is not a > generation of joiners. The ones who do make it their life's work to help > the blind need only come up with one good alternative to make both the NFB > and ACB irrelevant, only, one, alternative. > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the > tree and the forest > > Hi all, > It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", > "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about > the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as > it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, > let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar > groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of > how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs > which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want > to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some > time or other. > > Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian > churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. > Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and > keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal > friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and > get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, > discipled personally by other members of the church. > > This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, > get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical > interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of > the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by > friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are > the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training > classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by > strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a > local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a > smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works > there it is. > > I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to > get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying > that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people > down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of > the organisation must be made in the social context in which it > operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are > worth considering. > > 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do > volunteer work. > 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and > commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. > 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less > leisure time for social group involvement. > 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much > larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the > incredible advances in medical competence, the development of > technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights > movement which has put the disability community out of institutions > and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite > resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer > transportation assistance. > 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of > education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up > with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the > blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more > difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the > respectability of blindness are harder to influence. > 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the > western world are adults over 65 years of age. > > The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different > from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen > nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive > for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why > are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused > on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is > to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to > increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever > the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my > town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB > philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth > and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that > new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of > encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside > them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a > better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to > meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all > my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical > presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can > be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask > yourself the hard questions. > > I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is > person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new > members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, > scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of > groups like the NFB. > 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to > take on leadership positions. > 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the > work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work > occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of > techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. > > What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will > determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. > > Regards, > > Heather Field > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > > I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 > years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted > at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that > we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the > leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is > just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the > specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard > is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While > I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may > be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as > someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at > empowering and educating the membership as a whole. > > Thanks for your thoughts, > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Briley, >> >> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >> posts. >> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's >> funny that >> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I >> have to >> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >> almost >> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >> National >> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >> fundraising >> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been >> forgotten. It is >> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner >> than the >> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 >> years, >> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the >> source, are >> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> >> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >> often forget that. >> >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >> what we had to fight for! >>> >>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >> be in the real world. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>> Good afternoon all, >>>> >>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>> >>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >> of information at state conventions or national events. But >> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>> >>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't >> exist. >>>> >>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>> >>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>> >>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >> should not limit our life choices. >>>> >>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >> history. We will all be better for it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Briley >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheat > her%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com Sun May 9 02:45:37 2010 From: rmlambert1987 at yahoo.com (Rob) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 19:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc Message-ID: <820183.10565.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Just about Every one in the market (smile) - just plug it in, and u got Braille . Sent from my iPod On May 8, 2010, at 2:37 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini" wrote: Are MAC's compatible with Braille displays? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc Hello all, I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and yet, temptations abound. 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you have over the applications in your computer. 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be compatible with PC products. 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that makes Office documents readable? 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of how well they meet my daily task expectations. Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rmlambert1987%40yahoo.com From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Sun May 9 02:47:05 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 20:47:05 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Talks versus Mobile Speak In-Reply-To: <608AACA8-8E84-4FF9-85A4-5FFFDC6769C1@mac.com> References: <608AACA8-8E84-4FF9-85A4-5FFFDC6769C1@mac.com> Message-ID: <4CA57603-1A67-4471-98CF-DC8E7E2AB9CC@gmail.com> The only problem with mobile speak that I had was that they had this user ID system, but they have ling since fixed the system to rely on phone numbers rather than a user ID. This means you can just install the software on any device, and as long as you have the same phone number, you have a full version in case you decide to go to windows mobile... *gags*. Just my opinion of microsoft. The issue with talx is that it is for symbion only and you won't be able to use it on any device accept the symbion phones. On May 6, 2010, at 8:57 AM, Jorge Paez wrote: > Hello all. > I've decided to drop the KNFB reader classic and fine some way to get the new KNFB-Reader Mobile. > My question has 2 parts. > > Firstly: which screen reading software is better? Mobile Speak or Talks? > > > Also, when you get your Nokia device, with Talks/Mobile Speak, can you still use the callendar, notes/wifi function without a plan? > What things can you not use without a plan? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 9 02:49:15 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:49:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: <58F08B12-5E50-4F7C-8E47-4BCCA3828EC3@gmail.com> Yes, a lot of them. You can see a list by going to apple.com/accessability. Briley On May 8, 2010, at 4:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Are MAC's compatible with Braille displays? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:46 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > > >> Hello all, >> >> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >> yet, temptations abound. >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >> compatible with PC products. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >> >> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From kfjelsted at gmail.com Sun May 9 02:57:13 2010 From: kfjelsted at gmail.com (Kevin Fjelsted) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:57:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: <000001caee8b$a5ef03d0$f1cd0b70$@com> References: <0FCE29E7-A63C-46EB-8C1E-8F98F4AADAA1@gmail.com> <745CC766-5CD4-4373-BC99-3F726CE85D96@gmail.com> <2A693A00-923F-4EB6-8404-84CF61DEC59D@gmail.com> <000001caee8b$a5ef03d0$f1cd0b70$@com> Message-ID: I am wondering if there isn't a natural tendency to form tribes groups and sub groups within an organization to get things done. Although I wasn't involved directly with NFB in the middle 80's I remember the incredible work that was done by NFB which was certainly equivalent to other fights to over come injustice and obtain equal rights. THis fight was pertaining to the airlines and certainly must have been a time of close clustering for those involved at the time. THere was a local fight in Minnesota pertaining to a theme park which would not let Blind people ride on theme park rides. THere was another fight in Minnesota pertaining to the need for BLindness Training that was responsive to the real needs of blind people not an organization that was self serving. In all these movements people had to take sides. Lines were drawn. People needed to know who was committed to stand with them. I contrast those memories with recent experiences that may illustrate my point more directly. I attended a local state convention last year in which I had made a personal goal to begin to try and integrate myself into NFB because I too wanted to learn more about how I could be involved in helping to make a difference as part of a team. Since I had not been involved in the various struggles and roots of the local organization I was not let in and learned very quickly that although there was a public convention there was a private convention consisting of dinners informal meetings breakfasts…. which was where the real work and sharing occurred. I attended another local convention today and observed the very same thing happening. After the main convention a grip of people who are more senior in the organization choose to invite some people to group with them for after hours meetings a dinner and more intimate sharing. Although there may be an overall organization for NFB with a mission a culture a membership goal and the like the true work will always get done by those who are on deck for a certain activity. THen as the activities evolve those who were committed when things were tough will have a natural defensive mechanism which will create a tribe, group or cluster that resists letting new people in. Interestingly enough those new people who wish to integrate may end up starting there own splinter tribes chiefly because the existing tribes won't let them in. At the same time the existing tribes will be scratching there heads wondering how to mentor the new people and then really scratching there heads about why those new people are starting there own groups and having to learn all over again what it means to be part of NFB without the help of the experienced ones. -Kevin On 5/8/10, Harry Hogue wrote: > Joe, > I so > Completely agree with your post , particularly concerning making people > feel bad for not attending training centers (as if they are somehow > lacking). I have noticed that it is more or less assumed, in some cases, > that if someone is blind and has not gone to a training center (NFB or not), > then they are necessarily less competent, etc. I have always said that life > is what you make of it, and the most value you gain from any experience, be > that at a training center or through living life in its various stages, is a > different perspective. It is said that there cannot possibly be any new > ideas, as all of the ideas have already been thought of by someone before > you. In this case, a new idea is not what is needed (do this, don't do > that, and so forth), but a new perspective. Change your perspective and you > will change your world. > > It may sound selfish to some, but I say if you first live for yourself and > then live to help others you will be on the right track, because you are no > good to anyone if you are not first comfortable within your own skin, and > first take care of your needs. No organization should become your life, > whether that it religious, advocacy, or what have you. You should have your > family, your profession (work) life, and then things about which you are > passionate (cancer groups, NFB, helping children, etc). This should fall in > with this category. If blindness is a characteristic, then I am going to > live my life to show this; it makes me very angry when people make out like > I am responsible to all blind people in the world to raise money, promote > this or that program, and so forth. And, I have to freely admit that part > of this is the fact that I do not like anything which resembles > unquestioning obedience or fellowship -- that is to say, I take what I need > from such things and leave the rest. I do not hold as closely to the church > of my childhood for this reason, but that is a discussion for another time. > The same is with the NFB. We are never told where they get their > statistics, but are just expected to accept them unquestioningly as true and > accurate. Once I got in college and began to question things around me, I > realized how ridiculous many things are in the world, and religion was one > (again, different discussion, as it has absolutely no relevance here), and > that led me to think about how so many people never question what they are > taught, and just accept it with no proof. The other thing is this: > organizations love buzzwords. They love to throw them around, and they > write their literature, deliver their speeches, and promote their programs > with the clear message that they, and they alone have the answer and are > right, and anyone who disagrees is stupid. This is a common thread with > organizations/religious groups, if you notice. The point I want to > emphasize is the "we have the answers," part. My basic thing I like to > remember about people is this: Everyone thinks they're right, everyone > knows best, everyone always has the answer, and no one can disagree or > you're stupid. This goes for individuals as well as groups. And, then > again, maybe I'm just scinical, bitter, and all the rest of it. But these > are only my thoughts. > > Thanks for your time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:40 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and > the forest > > Dear Heather and all, > > A well-written, thought-provoking post as always. Yet I have to confess it > was one of those messages where I heartily agreed with certain points and > completely disagreed with others. > > Your message says that what happens in our community is up to us regardless > of what the national office decides to build or how it decides to spend its > money. Unfortunately, even in the Christian church example you provide, > local branches, or in our case local chapters, cannot exist as independent > operations with little regard for the customs, norms and influence promoted > by the central body. People in the NFB are asked to give up their free time > to attend meetings, to volunteer between meetings, to make donations, and to > budget for expensive trips to conventions across the state and across the > country. In a perfect world the warmth and camaraderie of one's own > community would be enough to satisfy one's need to know to what end their > time is being invested. Yet local chapters review presidential releases. > Veteran members strongly encourage freshmen to attend conventions, and the > freshmen and the curious succumb to these activities because it is human > nature to want to learn and do more. Modern technology makes it impossible > to settle for small-town satisfaction. > > This in of itself is not anything negative. The national conventions are > large enough to accommodate individual interests. The problem comes into > play when the national body leans on state affiliates to produce more than > what the state affiliates can produce. What happens at the national level > very much impacts local communities, because ultimately it is up to the > general membership to help bring in the money to build what the national > office wants. I do not buy into the belief that major decisions are > dictated by convention resolutions, many of which are not fulfilled, but the > level of tilted demand and fractured communication between the national > office and state affiliates are one reason we witness incidents like the New > Hampshire affiliate collapse. New Hampshire is the rare exception, but how > many other New Hampshires are there in our midst? > > You make the excellent point that what the organization looks like in fifty > years will largely depend on what we as individuals choose to contribute. > That's an interesting proposal. I came into the organization almost nine > years ago, made a lot of noise, discovered that the best way to be heard was > to do the hard work, did the hard work so that I could give my complaints a > foundation, and even after some of my better efforts discovered that > diligent service only carries you so far. In my case, I could genuinely > care less if people like me as an individual so long as the ideas I propose > to help blind people as a whole are given a fair audience. Hard work, it > seemed, was only appreciated so long as I followed the party line. > Conventions are the place to debate decisions, and any debate between > conventions is just unthinkable. Well, when it came to deciding whether I > would spend my time developing my professional aspirations or devoting my > time to an organization that only showed conditional appreciation for my > talents, the choice wasn't that difficult. > > Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the > organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB but > are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours > necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other > aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human > trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those > areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company. > Does this somehow make my opinions less than worthy because I am not giving > the organization 100 percent of my devotion? This logic, to me, suggests > that if you are blind, you would be wrong not to belong to the NFB and pull > your full weight. Not all cancer survivors devote the balance of their > lives to finding a cure. Moreover, what good is believing in the philosophy > if you do not exercise the philosophy in the areas that interest you most? > > I may very well be tuned into the wrong channel, but from where I'm sitting > and the conversations I'm tapping into, people trip over themselves to > complain about this or make fun of that, youth and adults alike, but hold > them accountable in a public forum and it's all about amen to the glory of > the NFB. Give credit where credit is due, but we really will not survive if > we only know how to give unquestioning allegiance to the people in power. > The NFB has historically questioned authority and raised a call to action to > change that with which it did not agree. I take it the same cannot be said > about internal calls for improvements? > > If only fully committed members are valued, then I guess I know where the > door is. Maybe there really is no one patient enough to tame this weapon. > Yet there is still the matter of the people yet to be brought in. These are > people who are unfortunately made to feel less than perfect if they do not > attend one of our training centers. These are people who are made to feel > less loyal if they do not use one of our long canes. These are people who > are not deemed "normal" if their personal habits, social skills and > philosophies do not mesh with our own. As an example, one weekend I was at > a leadership seminar at the National Center. A well-known student > accidentally dropped their plate in the dining room at dinner time. The > student was mortified not because they had dropped their plate, but because > they had dropped their plate in the presence of other blind people in the > highly esteemed National Center. I mean, so much for all this nonsense > about how the National Center is supposed to be our house. I guarantee that > if anyone from this list ever set foot into my home, you would never be made > to feel as awkwardly uncomfortable as the National Center has the ability to > make people feel. I felt so incredibly bad for the student in question but > could honestly not think of what to say to make them feel better. > > It's arrogance in almost its purest form. I'm an arrogant guy and > appreciate the mentality, but the organization cannot afford to be so > condescending to the people who do not purchase the whole cow, not when the > organization chooses to isolate itself from other cross disability groups > and thinks its methods of doing things are better than even other blindness > organizations. I think I could count the number of times the NFB has > partnered up with other groups to send a message. > > And so here we are. I feel good about the service I provided to the NFB in > my more active years. I fully intend to use my resources to try to help > divisions, affiliates and local chapters expand their operations as soon as > I can give the project proper attention, but to be honest, I do it because I > care about the people more than I care about the organization and its > doctrine. Somewhere along the way banquet speeches weren't enough to > mobilize my efforts, and at the moment the only thing the NFB can offer me > is the opportunity to raise money for projects with no short-term benefits > to the people who genuinely need help getting educated and employed. My > hard-earned dollars seem to be better spent on hungry families in Washington > DC by way of my church. > > I believe the NFB will fade away in due course not because there will no > longer be a need for proper advocacy on behalf of the blind. Rather, it > will fade away because the up and coming generation will figure out that it > can accomplish what the NFB wants to achieve and then some, and be more > inclusive about it. As Heather pointed out, this generation is not a > generation of joiners. The ones who do make it their life's work to help > the blind need only come up with one good alternative to make both the NFB > and ACB irrelevant, only, one, alternative. > > Joe Orozco > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:38 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the > tree and the forest > > Hi all, > It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", > "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about > the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as > it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, > let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar > groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of > how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs > which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want > to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some > time or other. > > Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian > churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. > Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and > keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal > friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and > get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, > discipled personally by other members of the church. > > This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, > get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical > interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of > the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by > friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are > the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training > classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by > strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a > local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a > smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works > there it is. > > I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to > get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying > that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people > down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of > the organisation must be made in the social context in which it > operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are > worth considering. > > 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do > volunteer work. > 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and > commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. > 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less > leisure time for social group involvement. > 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much > larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the > incredible advances in medical competence, the development of > technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights > movement which has put the disability community out of institutions > and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite > resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer > transportation assistance. > 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of > education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up > with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the > blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more > difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the > respectability of blindness are harder to influence. > 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the > western world are adults over 65 years of age. > > The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different > from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen > nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive > for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why > are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused > on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is > to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to > increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever > the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my > town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB > philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth > and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that > new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of > encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside > them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a > better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to > meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all > my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical > presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can > be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask > yourself the hard questions. > > I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is > person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new > members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, > scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of > groups like the NFB. > 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to > take on leadership positions. > 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the > work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work > occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of > techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. > > What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will > determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. > > Regards, > > Heather Field > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots > > > I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 > years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted > at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that > we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the > leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is > just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the > specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard > is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While > I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may > be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as > someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at > empowering and educating the membership as a whole. > > Thanks for your thoughts, > Briley > On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Briley, >> >> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >> posts. >> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's >> funny that >> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I >> have to >> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >> almost >> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >> National >> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >> fundraising >> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been >> forgotten. It is >> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner >> than the >> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 >> years, >> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the >> source, are >> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> >> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >> often forget that. >> >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >> what we had to fight for! >>> >>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >> be in the real world. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>> Good afternoon all, >>>> >>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>> >>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >> of information at state conventions or national events. But >> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>> >>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't >> exist. >>>> >>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>> >>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>> >>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >> should not limit our life choices. >>>> >>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >> history. We will all be better for it. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Briley >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >> for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheat > her%40comcast.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com > -- Kevin Fjelsted B Harris, Inc. http://www.bharrisinc.com kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 Direct: 612.424.7332 From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Sun May 9 03:05:03 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:05:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] a couple of questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only solution I can give you is this. The best way to learn is to screw up. I have had countless times where I've gotten lost on a route, but that is why you ask random people for assistance. I have only had a couple of issues with people, but most of the time people have been willing to help me out. As far as the bar issue is concerned, while it may not be safe to stand outside alone in certain areas, it is a necessary evil. You can still have the driver call you to let you know they are there, another thing you could possibly do is give instructions to the dispatcher to have the driver look for you, give them descriptions such as "I have a white cane, and I'll be standing just outside the doors." You could also give them your name so they can get your attention that way. The problem with asking someone from the information desk at the mall to lead you to places is that they often times cannot leave the desk, as they might be the only one there. This is where you might just have to wander around, and if you hear someone walking tward you, you could get their attention by simply saying "Excuse me.", and if they respond, ask them where something is, you might have to ask multiple people, but that does not mean you are stupid by any means! I myself have had quite a few times where I've wanted to simply make sure I wasn't being misslead, but generally it is good to ask multiple people anyway on the count of the first and second person you ask might not know where something is. On May 7, 2010, at 5:22 AM, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi: > > I have a couple of questions I am hoping some people on the list can > help me with. > > First, my father owned a very very popular bar where I live called > Crocketts. My father passed away a couple of months ago but the bar is > still open. I went tonight for the first time since he passed away. > Tonight was kereoke night and I had more fun than I've ever had just > hanging out, listening to the different people sing or try to sing > kereoke and just being around people. > > There is a similar bar called Coaches that has a kereoke thing every > week just like Crocketts does that is very fun. I have never gone to > this by myself but have gone with friends and really enjoyed it also > for the same reasons...music, people, and just fun entertainment away > from my house. > > At Crocketts, since my father owned the bar I am safe there. I sit at > the bar (I don't drink) but I sit there anyway. The waitresses and > bartenders all know me and frequently check on me to make sure > everything is all right. > > However, at Coaches it is a diffferent story. I am not really known > there, and when I've gone with friends we are usually seated at a > table. The waitress comes around to serve drinks and food, but as soon > as the bill is paid they leave and we are on our own. > > Here is where my question comes in. I would like to begin going to > Coaches for their kereoke night. Getting there is no problem, but how > do I manage the getting home part? I carry my Iphone with me, but the > bar is so loud that it is impossible to hear anything to call a cab. > Also, how do I know when the cab gets there? Again I usually have the > driver call me when he arrives but again I wouldn't be able to hear my > phone. > > At Crocketts since everyone knows me, I have someone guide me to the > bathroom where it is quiet. I call a cab, and have them call Crocketts > and tell whoever answers the phone that they are outside to pick me > up. Of course this is no problem since everyone knows me at Crocketts. > > But, how do I manage this at Coaches? When I am ready to leave do I > somehow flag the waitress down and have her help me to the bathroom, > where I call the cab then wait in the bathroom for them to call me > back? > Waiting outside for the cab after I call would be kind of unsafe. > Unfortunately, the friends that went with me before were from out of > town and I don't have very many friends where i live that I could go > with. > > Is it appropriate to ask the driver to come inside to let me know they > are there...this way I don't have to wait outside? > How do you guys handle this? > > I know it isn't probably the safest thing to go to bars by yourself > but kereoke is a ton of fun and I know if I could figure out this > getting home part I'd be fine. > > > Also, I have another question. I would like to go to the mall/movies > Saturday. Again, I'll most likely be by myself. I would like to get > something to eat first in the food court in the mall, then go to the > movie theater. Our mall is pretty big and spacious and spread out. It > is all on one level but i am pretty sure the food court and the > theater are at separate ends. How do I get from one place to the > other? > > When I arrive at the mall, I plan to go to the information desk and > get assistance to the food court. When I have finished eating how do I > figure out how to get from the seating area to the movie theaters? > > Do I just start wandering around and asking random people for > directions to the movie theater, then obtain assistance again at the > movie theater to purchase a ticket, ETC to see the movie? > > Sorry for such a long email and so many dumb questions. Yes, I am the > same girl who posted a few weeks ago about not having been taught in > cane travel and wondering whether I should go to national convention. > However, I am tired of sitting around, and want to go and do > regardless of my skills and I figure the best way is to ask questions > on here as needed and just grab my NFB cane and go! > > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Sun May 9 03:20:31 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:20:31 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics In-Reply-To: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> References: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> Message-ID: <5AC620F6-B91F-43B3-8562-1DF7F12E6390@gmail.com> Harry. This is a vary valid point, and I have wondered the same thing on a few ocasions. I think if we were able to know where the statistics are gathered from, it may give us abetter idea of how to make that 70% unemployment rate drop like a rock. On May 7, 2010, at 10:43 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am writing because I am curious to know something. We always hear about > the 70 percent unemployment rate, and that X number (93%?) of employed blind > people read and write Braille, etc. I never see, however, where the facts > are obtained. I have never seen a source, other than the NFB. How does the > NFB get it's facts and figures, and what instrument do they use for > measurement? > > > > I have always been taught never to take for truth what is said, just because > it is stated, and it occurred to me recently that anytime facts or figures > are mentioned there is never a source. Has anyone else wondered this? I do > not mean to say the NFB is wrong, or start any sort of debate; I am simply > quite honestly curious. > > > > Wishing you all well, > > > > Harry Hogue > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Sun May 9 03:49:46 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:49:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: As far as voiceover and jaws are concerned, voiceover has loads better support for the OS in general. With iTunes, you can download things like vlc to play your wma files, but you cannot sync them to your iPod unless you convert them to mp3 or m4a. The mac has an application suite that is similar to microsoft office called iWork. You can still read/edit word, excel, and PowerPoint documents, and even save copies of the iWork files as microsoft word, excel, or even PowerPoint files. Mail is great! I have had no problems with mail, but I do wish they still had support for the pop protocol, as everything to my knowledge does not use Imap. I could be wrong on that, so anyone that knows about this can correct me if you want. They do release voiceover improvements with all upgrades of the OS. The reason for this is because when they fix the OS, they fix voiceover too. Ical and addressbook are about 99% accessible in my eyes, but still have some accessibility shortcomings. The most notable example in the addressbook is renaming groups. As of OS 10.6.3, they have not worked out a fix for the problem with groups, but you can create a workaround for this problem. The major thing is that voiceover does not crash most of the time to the point you have to restart the mac, but when it does, it is programmed to relaunch itself immediatly after such an event. With jaws, that thing crashes, and you're pretty much screwed and you have to restart the computer. Another major thing is that you can take your settings everywhere on a flashdrive. Just connect the drive when voiceover is on and it should ask if you want to use your preferences that are on the flashdrive. Really though, since I've been using a mac, nothing else compares to it, not even linux for its ease of use. As far as the stories you've heard about mac not being compatible, that is becoming increasingly more bogus each day I look around at the computer world. In conclusion, just about everything you can do with windows you can do with the mac, and with the mac, you have better control of what happens with updates and everything like that, and if you need to take a mac in for repairs, the apple turnaround time is generally about 1 to 3 days, and I've gotten my macs back from repairs at least 2 days after I turn them in. There are other places you can take your mac to get repaired, but I would still recommend just taking it to apple for repairs, as they know about the product, and they know all its quarks. They can also have an answer for you pretty quick, and they do listen to bugs/suggestions for the product. On May 8, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello all, > > I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very > interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to > switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as > I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and > yet, temptations abound. > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in > terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system > upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to > compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know > it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit > different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you > have over the applications in your computer. > > 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? > I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be > compatible with PC products. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use > their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that > makes Office documents readable? > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks > but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great > but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering > if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't > much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do > that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping > those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date > information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that > even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of > how well they meet my daily task expectations. > > Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Sun May 9 03:51:01 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:51:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: <97E251D0-D4CE-40B5-9F86-D707C823A439@gmail.com> Just an oopse... Moment. In the latest version of the OS, they have made iCal accessible when in earlier versions it was not so accessible. On May 8, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hello all, > > I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very > interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to > switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as > I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and > yet, temptations abound. > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in > terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system > upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to > compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know > it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit > different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you > have over the applications in your computer. > > 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? > I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be > compatible with PC products. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use > their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that > makes Office documents readable? > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks > but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great > but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering > if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't > much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do > that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping > those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date > information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that > even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of > how well they meet my daily task expectations. > > Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun May 9 04:20:04 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 21:20:04 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <97E251D0-D4CE-40B5-9F86-D707C823A439@gmail.com> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <97E251D0-D4CE-40B5-9F86-D707C823A439@gmail.com> Message-ID: <11D97301-FE9A-405E-A603-29033C6B5B90@gmail.com> OHr eally? I'll have to play with it. I've been havin gissues with it non stop since about a month ago. Take care. S On May 8, 2010, at 8:51 PM, clinton waterbury wrote: > Just an oopse... Moment. > > In the latest version of the OS, they have made iCal accessible when in earlier versions it was not so accessible. > On May 8, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >> yet, temptations abound. >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >> compatible with PC products. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >> >> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From lawnmower84 at hotmail.com Sun May 9 07:06:53 2010 From: lawnmower84 at hotmail.com (Jacob Struiksma) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 00:06:53 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Yes macs work with Braille displays -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:38 PM To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc Are MAC's compatible with Braille displays? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:46 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > Hello all, > > I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was > very interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's > offer to switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the > moment. Still, as I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes > to my office assembly, and yet, temptations abound. > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility > changed in terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only > updated with system upgrades, or are there ever updates between major > upgrades? If you had to compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their > functionality break down? I know it's not fair to compare one to the > other because the logic is a bit different, but I'm hoping you can > speak to the level of manipulation you have over the applications in > your computer. > > 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software > packages? > I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone > to be compatible with PC products. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs > use their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word > processor that makes Office documents readable? > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its > quirks but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, > would be great but in my opinion still had some accessibility > shortcomings. I'm wondering if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based > applications? > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I > don't much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend > to do that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but > I'm hoping those of you who are daily users of the system can give > up-to-date information since reviews can quickly become outdated. > And, I'm sure that even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not > truly give me a sense of how well they meet my daily task > expectations. > > Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at > all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40w > avecable.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lawnmower84%40hotmai l.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 9 13:19:40 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 06:19:40 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Nabs membership call today!! Message-ID: Greetings fellow students! The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner (president NFB of Utah and board member of the national Federation of the Blind) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there promises to be something for you! Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter and to your locally moderated list serve for more information regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! Wishing you the best in your finals, The Nabs membership committee. -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Sun May 9 13:47:17 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 09:47:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The Internet! Message-ID: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa> Hi There! Please feel free to pass the following on to anyone you feel would benefit from this message: In the past when we've done our monthly NABS conference calls, you could only listen in using your telephone. And if you couldn't call in or make the conference, you'd lose out on some potentially useful information. But starting tonight, all that changes... Tonight's Philosophy 101 conference call can be heard over the internet! Starting at 8 PM eastern (7 central, 6 mountan, 5 pacific) you can use the following link to tune in to our conference call using your computer: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html Once on that page, you'll be presented with different options for accessing the call live using your pc's default media player or our special web player! Can't make the call tonight? No problem. Soon after the call completes, a link will be sent to the nabs list and to the nabs twitter account for downloading the call. Now you can still benefit from the information we have to share even if you can't make the live presentation! So don't forget. Use this link to listen in starting at 8 PM eastern: http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html And if you have any problems, send an email to david.dunphy at nabslinkaudio.org Enjoy the call, and to the moms out there, have a happy Mother's Day! Warmest regards, David Dunphy From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Sun May 9 14:19:24 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 08:19:24 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: They work with a lot of braille displays. For the full list, go to. http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/devicesupport.html On May 8, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > Are MAC's compatible with Braille displays? > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:46 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > > >> Hello all, >> >> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >> yet, temptations abound. >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >> compatible with PC products. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >> >> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From carrie.gilmer at gmail.com Sun May 9 14:26:45 2010 From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com (Carrie Gilmer) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 09:26:45 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics In-Reply-To: <144BBD32E57C5045B736FBC8D447D0EC019F7832@blindmail.BISM.COM> Message-ID: <4be6c628.0b65e50a.3a69.ffff8de0@mx.google.com> Good question Harry. I believe the statistics that show that fluent Braille readers are twice a likely to be employed as large-print readers was done By Dr. Ruby Ryles. She has a couple of studies. The references Amy gives are very good. AFB also has statistics on a variety of things. The statistic that says that only 10% of blind children are reading Braille comes from APH and the federal quota census. Every year for the last over 40, of all the blind students counted (that would be those who meet the legal definition only) it is very regular that only approx ten percent are listed as having Braille as their primary reading media...They have records back over 100 years...in the 1960's and the percentages of children reading Braille was much higher and began to dramatically drop and has stayed at the miserable low levels they are. There was a good article in the Braille Monitor a year or two or three ago on the unemployment rate you mention~it actually discussed your very concerns and gave a good argument for not using the typical 70-75% we often use...if you just typed the words unemployment rate, and etc. in the search engine of NFB website I am sure you could find it. Also a good article to read if you think there can not be any questioning...:-) Carrie _____ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Amy Phelps Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 6:20 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics Somewhere in the back of my memory I have the answer to this. I want to think that Dr. Ruby Rials at Louisiana Tech University, Professional Institute on Development and Research on Blindness conducted this study. Check with the Director Edward C Bell, Phd. He can give you some information on the study as well. http://www.pdrib.com/index.php Then, I also wonder if Dr. Fred Schroeder did the study. Either way, Dr. Bell can give you more information. _____ From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org on behalf of Jordan Richardson Sent: Sat 5/8/2010 5:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics Harry, Don't quote me on this, and if someone else knows something else please feel free to give your sentiments, but I believe that the American Foundation for the Blind has these sort of statistics. I would also imagine that the NFB would conduct studies every so often. However, don't quote me on that. Jordan 2nd VP, MnABS On 07/05/2010, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am writing because I am curious to know something. We always hear about > the 70 percent unemployment rate, and that X number (93%?) of employed blind > people read and write Braille, etc. I never see, however, where the facts > are obtained. I have never seen a source, other than the NFB. How does the > NFB get it's facts and figures, and what instrument do they use for > measurement? > > > > I have always been taught never to take for truth what is said, just because > it is stated, and it occurred to me recently that anytime facts or figures > are mentioned there is never a source. Has anyone else wondered this? I do > not mean to say the NFB is wrong, or start any sort of debate; I am simply > quite honestly curious. > > > > Wishing you all well, > > > > Harry Hogue > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail .com > -- Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come." --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aphelps%40bism.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 8538 bytes Desc: not available URL: From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun May 9 14:41:57 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 10:41:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Nabs membership call today!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shawn, Are you still up to patching me through for this? Also, someone noted that they couldn't find the phone number in the past e-mails. Can we try to put the phone number in all reminders? This would be a new member, and hopefully he'll see this e-mail. ~Jewel On 5/9/10, Darian Smith wrote: > Greetings fellow students! > > The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference > call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on > Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. > If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling > 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. > On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner > (president NFB of Utah and board member of the national Federation of > the Blind) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). > We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in > the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. > So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there > promises to be something for you! > Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter > and to your locally moderated list serve for more information > regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! > Wishing you the best in your finals, > The Nabs membership committee. > > > > > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun May 9 14:59:50 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 10:59:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences In-Reply-To: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> References: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> Message-ID: I have done mostly volunteer work at animal shelters. I only volunteer at no-kills, for one thing, and I particularly like the cat-only shelters. Most of the stuff I do at the shelter is what I do for my kitty at home...give them food and water, clean out litter boxes, socialize and play...I can also clean out cages, sort laundry, and talk to potential adopters. I really enjoy it. I have also volunteered at a public library. I really enjoy telling people about good books, and am pretty good at the online catalog, so I can find a book in the catalog and give the the call number, though I can't find it on the shelf since there's no Braille or such. But anyone can help them find the book once I locate in the catalog on the computer. I am in the middle of getting started with another volunteer opportunity at the local public library. I'm working on starting the fundraiser for it. I want to get the books on CD labelled in Braille like the books at the library for teh blind. I twould cost 11 cents per book, so that's not bad...but there are lots of books! Imagine the worlds that would be opened if we could check out these books ourselves, in addition to t he library for the blind's, RFBD, Bookshrare, audible.com, and all the rest! I brought it up at the last NFB meeting, and they are going to support my endeavours with a contribution and help with the fundraising. It is the sort of fundraising I really like, raising money toward a specific goal that will advocate the blind and Braille and educate others, while giving us more independence! Volunteer work doesn't have to be structured. Look around your neighbourhood and see what needs doing. If you plan on working with kids, perhaps volunteer to start a fundraiser to update the local playground to be more accessible or safer. If your preference is working with people in need, maybe join the Big Brothers, Big Sisters program? Show that child how great a role model you are, teach them the bus routes and how to walk around the area safely, take them to museums and zoos and the park and places like that...you can do some real good as a mentor to a child. The best advice I can give though is to find what needs doing, and do it! Yes, working at a soup kitchen will work on your resume, but if you start a new program that brings a smile and a meal to needy people who live on the streets or in the woods, that would be better (yes, people still live in the woods...I met one the other day, real nice guy, just down on his luck). Volunteering as a tutor will work, but starting a new after-school program for teens would look better. Reading to kids at the library would work, but it'll look better if you raised funds for a new playground or a collection of TwinVision books for the library, or some such. Just some ideas, Jewel On 5/8/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > Can you share what volunteering you've done. I think volunteering has many > beneficial purposes including building skills, experience, networking, and a > way to help the community. Often organizations serve blind and disabled > people, so if we volunteer we can serve being on the other end. I am > putting out volunteer applications to nonprofits while I look for a job; I > don't want a big gap on my resume. > > I volunteered at my talking book library checking/rewinding tapes. I also > volunteered at a shelter with my church. I tutored children as well with > Campus ministry in college. > But have not done too much in depth. > > Anyone volunteered at a food bank at a warehouse where you sort food? Soup > kitchen? I've thought about that but not sure if its visual; I mean would > you need to read labels to sort food items. For serving at a soup kitchen, > I imagine its big with lots of people; I wonder if you need to see the > dishes and people so you know they are there to serve. I know once I have > the dish, serving can be done by just placing the food on the plate and I > can judge the amount and where the food is by feeling with the utensil. I > have tunnel vision so I'd use that too. > > I'm also looking into volunteering at hospitals and nonprofit offices. I > don't foresee much access issues in the office as long as jaws is compatable > with the programs on their computers. > > > Any advice or ideas would be helpful. > > Thanks. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Sun May 9 15:04:28 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 11:04:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: <000301caef0a$2a1c7560$7e556020$@com> References: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> <000001caeed8$1ce27430$56a75c90$@com> <000301caef0a$2a1c7560$7e556020$@com> Message-ID: I use IE to download just fine. The page after the buttons (you'll get both buttons whether you register or not) will indeed say You are about to download, with the name, size, etc. If you click N for Non-Link Text several times until you hear "Note" then scroll up, you should find the movie link as the second link up from "note". You can also press U (unvisited link) twice with the shift key to go up two links from "note" and it should go to the right link. This is what I do, because I like to bypass all the junk. ~Jewel On 5/8/10, Harry Hogue wrote: > I discovered the issue; IE was the problem-I switched to Firefox and things > worked perfectly. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Harry Hogue > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:59 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > I notice when I go to download a movie from blindmicemart.com that the > SendSpace, after I register for free, still gives the "high speed download" > and "regular download." No matter which I click on, I still get the same > options about paying per month, etc. I never see the name of my movie as a > link to click on; all it says is, "You are about to down load:," and tells > me the size, etc. > > Thoughts/suggestions? > > Thanks! > > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Rania > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:05 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Steven Max-Faults > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > > > Hello All, > > I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They > have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download > from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I > think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. > Thanks! > > > > Steven > > > > Steven Max-Faults > > > > SteveMax83 at yahoo.com > > 917-865-6953 (Mobile) > > --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download > link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will > see the link below. > Rania, > > From: Jewel S. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive > Video > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM > > yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK > ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY > DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO > DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, > OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH > VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO > MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! > > jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! > > ~jEWEL > > On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> >>>---------- >>>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>>To: Danielsen, Chris >>>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >>> >>>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >>> >>>Best, >>>Mary >>>*** >>> >>>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >>> >>>1. DVS on DVD >>>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. >>> >>>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >>> >>>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>>movies. >>> >>>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>>information about movies offered with >>>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems. >>>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>>and accessible showtimes near you. >>> >>>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>>you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. >>> >>>Thank you. >>> >>>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>>Boston – Los Angeles >>>access.wgbh.org >>>617 300-3700 >>>access at wgbh.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >> 40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c > om > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 > 01:26:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 9 17:28:07 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 10:28:07 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Nabs membership call today!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Jewl, Thanks for the reminder as it relates to the phone number- we've fixed the issue and are keeping what has happened last time in mind. i can patch you through if you are interested in asking questions and sharing your thoughts as well. Best, Darian On 5/9/10, Jewel S. wrote: > Shawn, > > Are you still up to patching me through for this? > > Also, someone noted that they couldn't find the phone number in the > past e-mails. Can we try to put the phone number in all reminders? > This would be a new member, and hopefully he'll see this e-mail. > > ~Jewel > > On 5/9/10, Darian Smith wrote: >> Greetings fellow students! >> >> The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference >> call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on >> Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. >> If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling >> 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. >> On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner >> (president NFB of Utah and board member of the national Federation of >> the Blind) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). >> We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in >> the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. >> So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there >> promises to be something for you! >> Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter >> and to your locally moderated list serve for more information >> regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! >> Wishing you the best in your finals, >> The Nabs membership committee. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >> spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun May 9 18:27:19 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 14:27:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc Message-ID: <34BF1385-E7BC-435F-B616-B346DE17E322@mac.com> Yes. (though, admitedly, I haven't tried that) , From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun May 9 19:08:46 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 12:08:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: <204201caefab$0cea05b0$6601a8c0@server> Hi Briley, This was a wonderful helpful post. I have been wanting to try the Mac and you may have pushed me over the edge. I do not know the various models, so can you tell me which model you have and do you have any recommendations as to which models are best and which to avoid, if any? I look forward to hearing from you and again I want to thank you for the great post. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the others who have >been using Macs longer than I. > > I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with viruses, computer > crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used it exclusively, (gave up > Windows cold turkey as it were), since December. Here are my general > impressions. > > You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow Leopard isn't > Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives me just as much control > over everything I need, (internet, music, word processing, EMail, etc), as > Jaws, just in a different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, > and it was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in Voiceover > since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I don't miss Jaws at all, > and I'd been using it for twelve years. > > The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than Outlook to me. Of > course, I find everything on the Mac very easy to understand. I think this > fits in though with the general commentary that Macs are really user > friendly and self explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I > stopped trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. > Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS reader is > built right in. > > Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For example, I have > my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over a link in the browser, it > beeps instead of saying "link". You can also change it so that way it says > link before the link text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is > easily tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of > things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. > > Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I find it does > a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my word processing needs so > far, but there are accessible options for office suite applications. I > don't have them, so someone else might want to expound on IWork, but I've > heard great things. > > Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple has been > great at responding to accessibility requests. For example, I EMailed them > after the recent ITunes update to inform them of some issues I was having. > I got an EMail response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly > thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 EMails a day > like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were solved. It is an attitude > of universal access. I've just grown to semi expect that an application > will work, and I have very rarely encountered things that are inaccessible > to me, (as long as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew > that). > > The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. It has > gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes navigating around the > system really intuitive. The internet is a breeze. I just need a few > fingers, and I'm set to go. > > I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know computer > problems happen on every platform, but I've experienced none thus far. If > Voiceover gets cranky, (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a > few weeks), I just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. > > It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen reader and a > new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it all became natural to > me. I turned on my roommate's computer the other day, and kept trying to > make Jaws work with Voiceover commands. I also installed some software for > her, and the process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me > on my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no fussing > from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of things for me. > > I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll repost. If > you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, let me know. I'd be > happy to demo it for you. > > Briley > > > On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, >> as >> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, >> and >> yet, temptations abound. >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed >> in >> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with >> system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had >> to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >> know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software >> packages? >> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to >> be >> compatible with PC products. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs >> use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its >> quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >> great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >> wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >> don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to >> do >> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm >> hoping >> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure >> that >> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense >> of >> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >> >> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun May 9 19:22:08 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 12:22:08 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac References: Message-ID: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> Hello Mac users, The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is the Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that the Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode and then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" back and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward to hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > Hi Joe: > I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the > results. > > Your questions are addressed below: > > 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed > in > terms of the screen reader? > > It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified > interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and > usability. > > Is the screen reader only updated with system > upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? > > Yes. > > For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not > always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, > if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says > simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." > > If you had to > compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I > know > it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit > different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you > have over the applications in your computer. > > 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use > their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that > makes Office documents readable? > > Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of > documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if > you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. > DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version > is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% > inaccessible. > > > Complete control. > > I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. > > > > As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) > unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. > Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% > inaccessible. > > > > > 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks > but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be > great > but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm > wondering > if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? > > Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, > literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't > use that. > > You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. > Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. > > 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I > don't > much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. > > iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it > there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. > > 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? > > Yes. > > Apple stores and authorized retalors. > > > Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. > If you're in the field--that's debatable. > > > Hope that helps. > Jorge > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 9 19:26:00 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:26:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: <915ED52D-FE4C-4C61-9891-E61D6A417C08@gmail.com> The fantastic thing is that you can run the Voiceover quickstart tutorial as soon as you turn on the Mac right out of the box. It'll take you through the basics even before you set up the Mac. It is fantastic. It has been hard to find a complete manual, but there are a lot of resources available, and they are becoming easier to find by the day. Handitech even offers Voiceover training, (check out their Mac Acadmey program they have going on this summer). I've figured a lot out on my own from friends, and it helps that the screen reader is completely built in. I don't feel like I'm learning a whole new piece of software on top of a new OS. They go hand and hand. Also, I've even called Apple before with Voiceover questions, and someone has always been able to help me. Once, I muted Voiceover and couldn't figure out how I'd done it. Turns out, I'd triple tapped the track pad. Lol. The Apple help desk person chuckled at me, but was able to help in less than 5 minutes. Here is the link to Apple's site with the list of compatible braille displays. http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/devicesupport.html Glad my response was helpful. :) Briley On May 8, 2010, at 8:38 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Briley, > > Excellent post. Thank you so much for the quick and thorough response. I > too am curious as to how compatible a Mac would be with something like the > Braille Sense Plus or Braille displays in general. What about > documentation? I've heard there is no real manual to explain the > functionality of Voiceover, but is this primarily because the screen reader > is pretty intuitive? Is there a quick start guide of sorts? Thanks > again.--Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: Briley Pollard [mailto:brileyp at gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 5:18 PM > To: jsorozco at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students > mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > > I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the > others who have been using Macs longer than I. > > I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with > viruses, computer crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used > it exclusively, (gave up Windows cold turkey as it were), since > December. Here are my general impressions. > > You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow > Leopard isn't Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives > me just as much control over everything I need, (internet, > music, word processing, EMail, etc), as Jaws, just in a > different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, and it > was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in > Voiceover since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I > don't miss Jaws at all, and I'd been using it for twelve years. > > The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than > Outlook to me. Of course, I find everything on the Mac very > easy to understand. I think this fits in though with the > general commentary that Macs are really user friendly and self > explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I stopped > trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. > Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS > reader is built right in. > > Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For > example, I have my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over > a link in the browser, it beeps instead of saying "link". You > can also change it so that way it says link before the link > text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is easily > tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of > things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. > > Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I > find it does a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my > word processing needs so far, but there are accessible options > for office suite applications. I don't have them, so someone > else might want to expound on IWork, but I've heard great things. > > Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple > has been great at responding to accessibility requests. For > example, I EMailed them after the recent ITunes update to > inform them of some issues I was having. I got an EMail > response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly > thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 > EMails a day like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were > solved. It is an attitude of universal access. I've just grown > to semi expect that an application will work, and I have very > rarely encountered things that are inaccessible to me, (as long > as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew that). > > The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. > It has gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes > navigating around the system really intuitive. The internet is > a breeze. I just need a few fingers, and I'm set to go. > > I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know > computer problems happen on every platform, but I've > experienced none thus far. If Voiceover gets cranky, > (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a few weeks), I > just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. > > It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen > reader and a new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it > all became natural to me. I turned on my roommate's computer > the other day, and kept trying to make Jaws work with Voiceover > commands. I also installed some software for her, and the > process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me on > my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no > fussing from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of > things for me. > > I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll > repost. If you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, > let me know. I'd be happy to demo it for you. > > Briley > > > On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. > I was very >> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my > employer's offer to >> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the > moment. Still, as >> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my > office assembly, and >> yet, temptations abound. >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the > accessibility changed in >> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only > updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? > If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break > down? I know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of > manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and > software packages? >> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was > more prone to be >> compatible with PC products. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? > Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word > processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook > has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, > would be great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. > I'm wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of > iTunes? I don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. > I intend to do >> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, > but I'm hoping >> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, > I'm sure that >> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly > give me a sense of >> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >> >> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up > their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% > 40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5096 (20100507) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 9 19:48:32 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:48:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <5ECAD439487547B9A9B6A35B672CEC2C@stanford.edu> Message-ID: On the Braille display front, if anyone is looking for one, I'm currently trying to sell a Hims SyncBraille 32, which is Apple supported. I just plugged it in, and ma using it right now. It works great. I'd love to keep it, but I'm moving and need the funds. It is in absolutely perfect condition, and comes with USB cable and carrying case. It is very thin and light, (I can fit it right into my purse). Price is negotiable, and a payment plan is an option. I'm looking to get $2000 for it, (which is $1200 less than what GWMicro sells them for). EMail me off list if you are interested. Briley On May 9, 2010, at 9:19 AM, clinton waterbury wrote: > They work with a lot of braille displays. > > For the full list, go to. > > http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/devicesupport.html > On May 8, 2010, at 3:37 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote: > >> Are MAC's compatible with Braille displays? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'Discussion list for NABS,National Alliance of Blind Students.'" ; "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 10:46 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >> >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >>> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >>> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >>> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >>> yet, temptations abound. >>> >>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >>> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>> have over the applications in your computer. >>> >>> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >>> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >>> compatible with PC products. >>> >>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>> makes Office documents readable? >>> >>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>> >>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>> >>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>> >>> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >>> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >>> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >>> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >>> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >>> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >>> >>> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun May 9 19:52:58 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 14:52:58 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Dennis, With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would be best. I hope this helps! Domonique On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Mac users, > The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and > encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is the > Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that the > Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows > programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode and > then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac > programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" back > and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward to > hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. > Best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jorge Paez" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > > >> Hi Joe: >> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >> results. >> >> Your questions are addressed below: >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed >> in >> terms of the screen reader? >> >> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >> usability. >> >> Is the screen reader only updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >> >> Yes. >> >> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not >> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, >> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >> >> If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >> know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version >> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >> inaccessible. >> >> >> Complete control. >> >> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >> >> >> >> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) >> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. >> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >> inaccessible. >> >> >> >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >> great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >> wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't >> >> use that. >> >> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >> don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> Yes. >> >> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >> >> >> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >> >> >> Hope that helps. >> Jorge >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun May 9 20:50:19 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 15:50:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: References: <585084.71983.qm@web113810.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <28422952C3074329BE8B00B4DA61D31F@RainaIsmailPC> <000001caeed8$1ce27430$56a75c90$@com> <000301caef0a$2a1c7560$7e556020$@com> Message-ID: <000601caefb9$3d1d9ea0$b758dbe0$@com> I think I have some viruses in my computer which were causing the issue; therefore, I need to get my computer scanned and fixed. I have Esset Nod32 -- I once heard that this worked with JAWS pretty well, but I've never found any that work just terrificly. Any thoughts on that? -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jewel S. Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 10:04 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo I use IE to download just fine. The page after the buttons (you'll get both buttons whether you register or not) will indeed say You are about to download, with the name, size, etc. If you click N for Non-Link Text several times until you hear "Note" then scroll up, you should find the movie link as the second link up from "note". You can also press U (unvisited link) twice with the shift key to go up two links from "note" and it should go to the right link. This is what I do, because I like to bypass all the junk. ~Jewel On 5/8/10, Harry Hogue wrote: > I discovered the issue; IE was the problem-I switched to Firefox and things > worked perfectly. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Harry Hogue > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:59 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > I notice when I go to download a movie from blindmicemart.com that the > SendSpace, after I register for free, still gives the "high speed download" > and "regular download." No matter which I click on, I still get the same > options about paying per month, etc. I never see the name of my movie as a > link to click on; all it says is, "You are about to down load:," and tells > me the size, etc. > > Thoughts/suggestions? > > Thanks! > > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Rania > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:05 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Steven Max-Faults > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > > > Hello All, > > I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They > have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download > from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I > think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. > Thanks! > > > > Steven > > > > Steven Max-Faults > > > > SteveMax83 at yahoo.com > > 917-865-6953 (Mobile) > > --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download > link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will > see the link below. > Rania, > > From: Jewel S. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive > Video > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM > > yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK > ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY > DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO > DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, > OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH > VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO > MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! > > jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! > > ~jEWEL > > On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> >>>---------- >>>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>>To: Danielsen, Chris >>>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >>> >>>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >>> >>>Best, >>>Mary >>>*** >>> >>>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >>> >>>1. DVS on DVD >>>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our efforts. >>> >>>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >>> >>>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>>movies. >>> >>>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>>information about movies offered with >>>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems. >>>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>>and accessible showtimes near you. >>> >>>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>>you have suggestions for making our pages more helpful. >>> >>>Thank you. >>> >>>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>>Boston – Los Angeles >>>access.wgbh.org >>>617 300-3700 >>>access at wgbh.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >> 40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c > om > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 > 01:26:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmai l.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun May 9 21:04:48 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 16:04:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics In-Reply-To: References: <000301caee68$ff6aa8b0$fe3ffa10$@com> Message-ID: <000701caefbb$42e9ecb0$c8bdc610$@com> Jordan, Thanks for your thoughts. I may simply do a little digging -- again, just out of curiosity. I think it is bad practice for the NFB to spout off statistics without giving folks the source. Now maybe I spent too much time in college writing papers and citing sources, but these are my thoughts. And my degree was in Spanish, not statistics, but I think it is a very bad idea to throw around numbers with no basis. And I say throw them around because often people quote these figures, perhaps without thinking about if they are, which is what most people do with facts and figures, I've noticed, and may (or may not) stop to consider that they could have changed slightly. How long, for example, has the NFB been at 50000 members? Has this not increased at all? Seven hundred chapters and 52 affiliates? Are there really no other chapters being started, anywhere? Again, not trying to start any sort of debate, but rather pointing out a couple of things which I've noticed and have always bugged me. And this only marginally has to do with the NFB -- I have these same thoughts and feelings about all different areas of life, just so no one things this is an NFB specific issue. Have an awesome day, Harry Hogue -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordan Richardson Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 4:37 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB Statistics Harry, Don't quote me on this, and if someone else knows something else please feel free to give your sentiments, but I believe that the American Foundation for the Blind has these sort of statistics. I would also imagine that the NFB would conduct studies every so often. However, don't quote me on that. Jordan 2nd VP, MnABS On 07/05/2010, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I am writing because I am curious to know something. We always hear about > the 70 percent unemployment rate, and that X number (93%?) of employed blind > people read and write Braille, etc. I never see, however, where the facts > are obtained. I have never seen a source, other than the NFB. How does the > NFB get it's facts and figures, and what instrument do they use for > measurement? > > > > I have always been taught never to take for truth what is said, just because > it is stated, and it occurred to me recently that anytime facts or figures > are mentioned there is never a source. Has anyone else wondered this? I do > not mean to say the NFB is wrong, or start any sort of debate; I am simply > quite honestly curious. > > > > Wishing you all well, > > > > Harry Hogue > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lilrichie411%40gmail .com > -- Jordan Richardson 2nd Vice President, Minnesota Association of Blind Students lilrichie411 at gmail.com "It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come." --Dalai Lama _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sun May 9 21:33:09 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 17:33:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences References: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> Message-ID: Jewel, Those are great opportunities you were in. I volunteered at the talking book library but not regular library. Great idea to label CD books in braille. There may be opportunities at the library; I'll see about it; reading to children or leading a discussion or something like that. Thanks for sharing! Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jewel S." To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences >I have done mostly volunteer work at animal shelters. I only volunteer > at no-kills, for one thing, and I particularly like the cat-only > shelters. Most of the stuff I do at the shelter is what I do for my > kitty at home...give them food and water, clean out litter boxes, > socialize and play...I can also clean out cages, sort laundry, and > talk to potential adopters. I really enjoy it. > > I have also volunteered at a public library. I really enjoy telling > people about good books, and am pretty good at the online catalog, so > I can find a book in the catalog and give the the call number, though > I can't find it on the shelf since there's no Braille or such. But > anyone can help them find the book once I locate in the catalog on the > computer. > > I am in the middle of getting started with another volunteer > opportunity at the local public library. I'm working on starting the > fundraiser for it. I want to get the books on CD labelled in Braille > like the books at the library for teh blind. I twould cost 11 cents > per book, so that's not bad...but there are lots of books! Imagine the > worlds that would be opened if we could check out these books > ourselves, in addition to t he library for the blind's, RFBD, > Bookshrare, audible.com, and all the rest! I brought it up at the last > NFB meeting, and they are going to support my endeavours with a > contribution and help with the fundraising. It is the sort of > fundraising I really like, raising money toward a specific goal that > will advocate the blind and Braille and educate others, while giving > us more independence! > > Volunteer work doesn't have to be structured. Look around your > neighbourhood and see what needs doing. If you plan on working with > kids, perhaps volunteer to start a fundraiser to update the local > playground to be more accessible or safer. If your preference is > working with people in need, maybe join the Big Brothers, Big Sisters > program? Show that child how great a role model you are, teach them > the bus routes and how to walk around the area safely, take them to > museums and zoos and the park and places like that...you can do some > real good as a mentor to a child. > The best advice I can give though is to find what needs doing, and do > it! Yes, working at a soup kitchen will work on your resume, but if > you start a new program that brings a smile and a meal to needy people > who live on the streets or in the woods, that would be better (yes, > people still live in the woods...I met one the other day, real nice > guy, just down on his luck). Volunteering as a tutor will work, but > starting a new after-school program for teens would look better. > Reading to kids at the library would work, but it'll look better if > you raised funds for a new playground or a collection of TwinVision > books for the library, or some such. > Just some ideas, > Jewel > > On 5/8/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Can you share what volunteering you've done. I think volunteering has >> many >> beneficial purposes including building skills, experience, networking, >> and a >> way to help the community. Often organizations serve blind and disabled >> people, so if we volunteer we can serve being on the other end. I am >> putting out volunteer applications to nonprofits while I look for a job; >> I >> don't want a big gap on my resume. >> >> I volunteered at my talking book library checking/rewinding tapes. I >> also >> volunteered at a shelter with my church. I tutored children as well >> with >> Campus ministry in college. >> But have not done too much in depth. >> >> Anyone volunteered at a food bank at a warehouse where you sort food? >> Soup >> kitchen? I've thought about that but not sure if its visual; I mean >> would >> you need to read labels to sort food items. For serving at a soup >> kitchen, >> I imagine its big with lots of people; I wonder if you need to see the >> dishes and people so you know they are there to serve. I know once I >> have >> the dish, serving can be done by just placing the food on the plate and I >> can judge the amount and where the food is by feeling with the utensil. >> I >> have tunnel vision so I'd use that too. >> >> I'm also looking into volunteering at hospitals and nonprofit offices. I >> don't foresee much access issues in the office as long as jaws is >> compatable >> with the programs on their computers. >> >> >> Any advice or ideas would be helpful. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 9 21:34:23 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 16:34:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <9B9405B9-3341-4E16-831F-1CE71066CCF4@gmail.com> There is no Kurzweil program, but there are OCR programs that work well which are a lot less expensive. I don't know if there is a Kurzweil 3000 equivalent, but there is a 1000 equivalent. Briley On May 9, 2010, at 2:22 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Mac users, > The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is the Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that the Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode and then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" back and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward to hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. > Best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > > >> Hi Joe: >> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the results. >> >> Your questions are addressed below: >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >> terms of the screen reader? >> >> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and usability. >> >> Is the screen reader only updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >> >> Yes. >> >> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >> >> If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% inaccessible. >> >> >> Complete control. >> >> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >> >> >> >> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% inaccessible. >> >> >> >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't use that. >> >> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> Yes. >> >> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >> >> >> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >> >> >> Hope that helps. >> Jorge >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 9 22:01:41 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 15:01:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nabs-presidents] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Janice Jeang Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 19:47:14 -0500 Subject: Re: [Nabs-presidents] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 To: List for NABS State Presidents , Arizona-students at nfbnet.org, cabs-talk , Colorado Students , Florida Students , Gabs at nfbnet.org, Illinois Students , Kansas Students , Kentucky Students , Louisiana Students , mabs at nfbnet.org, Minnesota Students , National Association of Blind Students mailing list , Nebraska , New Hampshire Students , New Jersey Students , New Mexico Association of Blind Students , nfb-hi , North Carolina Students , Oabs at nfbnet.org, tabs_students at googlegroups.com, Tennessee Students , Utah Students , Virginia Students Hello Presidents, The Membership Committee is also proud to announce that recordings of the conference call will be available for your listening pleasures, on the off chance that another engagement is going to take precedence this Mother's Day. We will announce the launch of the new NABS audio website shortly. However, for those who have even a little bit of time to share, we would greatly appreciate as many of you guys as possible, to come in and help answer questions. I have always felt that sharing with and learning from other members of my Federation family helps invigorate the lesson, causing them to stay with me. Please join us in passing Federation Philosophy along to others, as well as creating a useful audio document. Hope to see y'all on Sunday! 712.775.7100 code- 257963#. Best, Janice Jeang ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darian Smith" To: ; "cabs-talk" ; "Colorado Students" ; "Florida Students" ; ; "Illinois Students" ; "Kansas Students" ; "Kentucky Students" ; "List for NABS State Presidents" ; "Louisiana Students" ; ; "Minnesota Students" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" ; "Nebraska" ; "New Hampshire Students" ; "New Jersey Students" ; "New Mexico Association of Blind Students" ; "nfb-hi" ; "North Carolina Students" ; ; ; "Tennessee Students" ; "Utah Students" ; "Virginia Students" Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 9:17 AM Subject: [Nabs-presidents] nabs conference call: philosiphy 101 Greetings fellow students! The national Association of Blind Students will have a conference call regarding NFB Philosophy. This call is to take place on Sunday, May 9th at 8p.m. eastern time. If you are interested in joining this call, please join us by calling 712.775.7100 and dialing the pass code 257963. On the call, we will have special guest speakers Ron Gardner (president NFB of Utah and board member of the national Federation of the Blind) and Sam Gleese (president NFB of Mississippi). We are please to have such dynamic leaders with great experience in the movement joining us on what should be a can’t - miss call. So, no matter how long you’ve been involved with the NFB; there promises to be something for you! Please join us on Sunday and stay tuned to your Face book, Twitter and to your locally moderated list serve for more information regarding the call, including how to hear the call as it happens! Wishing you the best in your finals, The Nabs membership committee. -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com " Life is not about always making the right dicisions, it's about learning which dicisions are the right ones to make." _______________________________________________ Nabs-presidents mailing list Nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-presidents_nfbnet.org _______________________________________________ Nabs-presidents mailing list Nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-presidents_nfbnet.org -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 9 22:40:17 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 15:40:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing the Nabs Audio Center! Message-ID: Greetings Nabsters! Ever got caught up so deep in your studies that you missed out on one of our monthly conference calls? Ever wished you could gain access to the information and insight that is shared amungst your peers and leaders within our movement? Ever just wondered if there was a better way? Ever wished the questions would end and we'd get on to the actual announcement? Well, wonder and Lament no more! Ladies and Gentlemen introducing the National Association of Blind Students Audio and podcast center! Here you can listen to a call you might have missed or listen to a live stream of that monthly call that you just can't call into. The audio posts and stream will be available for calls starting with the philosiphy discussion this evening at 8p.m. eastern time! check it out at www.nabslinkaudio.org Much thanks to David Dumphy (of Radio 360 fame) for setting up this new and exciting oppertunity! We look forward to your joining of both this and future calls. Best, Darian Smith co-chair nabs membership committee Board Member: National Association of Blind Students -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From stevemax83 at yahoo.com Sun May 9 23:59:20 2010 From: stevemax83 at yahoo.com (Steven Max-Faults) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 16:59:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <984338.65968.qm@web113807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I also tried Firefox and everything worked fine. I’m not sure why we can’t find the download link with IE. I guess it could be our Jaws and/or IE versions, or just something we’re not doing right. Anyway, I won’t worry about it. Thanks!   Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Sun, 5/9/10, Jewel S. wrote: From: Jewel S. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with DescriptiveVideo To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010, 11:04 AM I use IE to download just fine. The page after the buttons (you'll get both buttons whether you register or not) will indeed say You are about to download, with the name, size, etc. If you click N for Non-Link Text several times until you hear "Note" then scroll up, you should find the movie link as the second link up from "note". You can also press U (unvisited link) twice with the shift key to go up two links from "note" and it should go to the right link. This is what I do, because I like to bypass all the junk. ~Jewel On 5/8/10, Harry Hogue wrote: > I discovered the issue; IE was the problem-I switched to Firefox and things > worked perfectly. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Harry Hogue > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:59 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > I notice when I go to download a movie from blindmicemart.com that the > SendSpace, after I register for free, still gives the "high speed download" > and "regular download."  No matter which I click on, I still get the same > options about paying per month, etc.  I never see the name of my movie as a > link to click on; all it says is, "You are about to down load:," and tells > me the size, etc. > > Thoughts/suggestions? > > Thanks! > > Harry > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Rania > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 12:05 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Steven Max-Faults > Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 8:22 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with > DescriptiveVideo > > > > > > Hello All, > > I thought the Movie Vault at BlindMiceMart.com was a great suggestion. They > have a lot of good movies. I was wondering if any one knows how to download > from SendSpace? For some reason, I’m not able to find the download link. I > think I had this problem before, but I don’t remember what I did. > Thanks! > > > > Steven > > > > Steven Max-Faults > > > > SteveMax83 at yahoo.com > > 917-865-6953 (Mobile) > > --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Jewel S. wrote:The download > link is near the bottom of the page it will say download link and you will > see the link below. > Rania, > > From: Jewel S. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Source for DVD's and Blu Ray Disks with Descriptive > Video > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 7:19 PM > > yOU CAN ALSO GET DOWNLOADABLE dvs MOVIES AT WW.BLINDMICEMART.COM AND CLICK > ON "bLIND mICE mART mOVIE vAULT." tHEY HAVE THOUSANDS DESCRIBED BY MANY > DIFFERENT COMPANIES (SUCH AS QUITE A FEW bRITISH ONES). tHEY ARE FREE TO > DOWNLOAD AND ARE MP3 FILES, SO YOUR nls tALKING bOOK pLAYER, vICTORsTREAM, > OR MP3 PLAYER WILL PLAY THEM. oNLY DRAWBACK? nO VIDEO FOR PEOPLE WITH ENOUGH > VISION TO SEE THE PICTURES. i CAN'T, THOUGH, SO THESE ARE GREAT, AND NO > MOVIES TAKEN UP PRECIOUS bRAILLE BOOK SHLEF SPACE! > > jUST A THOUGHT, NOT A REPLACEMENT! > > ~jEWEL > > On 5/5/10, David Andrews wrote: >> >>> >>>---------- >>>From: Mary Watkins [mailto:mary_watkins at wgbh.org] >>>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:20 PM >>>To: Danielsen, Chris >>>Subject: Hi Chris - New Resource >>> >>>I'm not sure if you saw this announcement yet, in case you didn't, >>>here it is.  We've been asked since the DVS Home Video effort ended >>>for a one-stop resource for locating described movies on DVD, and so >>>now we've made one.  Please share far and wide as you see fit. >>> >>>Best, >>>Mary >>>*** >>> >>>WGBH's Media Access Group, home to the Descriptive Video Service >>>(DVS®) has debuted two new online resources today for fans of >>>described movies.  Both can be reached via a new, easy-to-remember Web >>>site address:  www.describedmovies.org >>> >>>1. DVS on DVD >>>This page of our site has been updated to enable description fans to >>>learn about mainstream DVD and Blu-ray discs that are available with >>>audio description, and provides a Amazon click through option which >>>takes you directly to the page of amazon.com to order the disc. The >>>DVD and Blu-ray discs listed on the page are available wherever discs >>>are sold (online and in stores), however clicking through our site to >>>purchase your movies will provide the Media Access Group with a small >>>percentage of the sales revenue, and helps support our  efforts. >>> >>>(The hit comedy It's Complicated from Universal Pictures Home >>>Entertainment, starring Meryl Streep, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin is >>>the most recent movie released on DVD and Blu-ray with description.) >>> >>>2. Full List of DVS Movies >>>This page lists every movie we've described for television, cable, DVS >>>Home Video and DVS Theatrical (for movie theaters) since DVS debuted >>>as a service in 1990.  We're at nearly 800 films!  The list is >>>sortable by movie title or distributor (the company for which we >>>originally described the film). Ask for described versions of movies >>>from your television, cable or satellite provider, from movies by mail >>>services and from Web sites which offer streaming or downloadable >>>movies. >>> >>>As always, www.mopix.org takes you to >>>information about movies offered with >>>description in theaters equipped with Motion Picture Access systems. >>>And try www.captionfish.com ­ you can type in your zip code, set the >>>search filter for DVS and find the equipped theaters, described movies >>>and accessible showtimes near you. >>> >>>We like hearing from you, so please let us know what you think, and if >>>you have suggestions for making our pages more  helpful. >>> >>>Thank you. >>> >>>The Media Access Group at WGBH >>>Boston – Los Angeles >>>access.wgbh.org >>>617 300-3700 >>>access at wgbh.org >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2% >> 40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.c > om > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2861 - Release Date: 05/08/10 > 01:26:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 10 00:12:24 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 17:12:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Announcing nabs membership conference call live streaming! Message-ID: Dear listers, David Dumphy, who is handling the Launch of our Audio Site announces the following exciting news relating to our nabs membership conference calls! "I'd like to add that you can listen to the call using your computer. When it starts, which is at 8 PM eastern, you can go to http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html to hear it. And if you can't catch it, a link will be made available for you to download the call soon after it takes place. Enjoy." -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon May 10 00:18:46 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 20:18:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac Message-ID: <60D2FCEC-0284-4E92-B857-648D7D03A051@mac.com> I haven't had any experience with this, but if the facts hold true then it depends. If you choose Bootcamp you'll have to restart. If you choose VMWare Fusion, you can jump back and forth. Hope this helps. Jorge From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 10 00:39:01 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 19:39:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The Internet! In-Reply-To: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa> References: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa> Message-ID: <5CE36DE3-AD78-43E1-9B23-7615781A2671@gmail.com> This stream sounds fabulous. I like it much better than using my phone. Can hear it better. There is some fantastic conversation going on. Things that aren't usually talked about. I wish I could participate from my computer. But this will do. Great job, NABS board. This stuff is really useful. Briley On May 9, 2010, at 8:47 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > Hi There! > Please feel free to pass the following on to anyone you feel would benefit from this message: > In the past when we've done our monthly NABS conference calls, you could only listen in using your telephone. And if you couldn't call in or make the conference, you'd lose out on some potentially useful information. > But starting tonight, all that changes... > Tonight's Philosophy 101 conference call can be heard over the internet! > Starting at 8 PM eastern (7 central, 6 mountan, 5 pacific) you can use the following link to tune in to our conference call using your computer: > http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html > > > Once on that page, you'll be presented with different options for accessing the call live using your pc's default media player or our special web player! > Can't make the call tonight? No problem. > Soon after the call completes, a link will be sent to the nabs list and to the nabs twitter account for downloading the call. Now you can still benefit from the information we have to share even if you can't make the live presentation! > So don't forget. Use this link to listen in starting at 8 PM eastern: > http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html > And if you have any problems, send an email to > david.dunphy at nabslinkaudio.org > Enjoy the call, and to the moms out there, have a happy Mother's Day! > Warmest regards, > David Dunphy > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From jj at bestmidi.com Mon May 10 02:32:06 2010 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 22:32:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile References: Message-ID: Jorge, I'll try to answer this question with some of the differences noticed by our customers. N82 1. Candy-bar style brick phone, so all buttons are visible 2. Older phone so it is more stable with Talks and Mobile Speak 3. Slightly lower cost N86 1. Support for AT&T high-speed data 2. 8GB of memory built-in 3. Top keys such as send and end are perhaps easier to find by touch. 4. Better battery life. 5. Slide-out numeric keypad, so number keys are covered. 6. Built-in FM transmitter As for wi-fi, both phones include this feature and they behave basically the same. I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have further questions. J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com A premier Licensed Code Factory and KNFB Reader distributor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 11:57 AM Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile > Hi Sean: > > > Thanks for your input--don't worry, I'm looking for the honest user > opinions, specially you guys who know both sides of the coin. I tend to > trust the consumers more then the techies on this, cause sometimes the > geek squads get tied up by all sorts of tech specs which don't matter in > the long run. > > Ok. My next question would again be 2 parts. > > 1. Which phone is better? N82 or N86? > > Secondly: Can you use wifi on these phones? If so, how reliable is it? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From gera1027 at gmail.com Mon May 10 02:59:16 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 21:59:16 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Klango doesn't play YOutube videos anymore Message-ID: <007101caefec$c8bd4d10$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: Hoping some of you use Klango I'd appreciate any ideas on my little problem. since yesterday when I want to listen to a Youtube video on klango when pressing Enter on the video from within the Klango Interface's Youtube results nothing sounds! I know the play and stop and pause work because Klango makes the appropriate sounds; also when I convert the video to MP3 it sounds great with Winamp and Windows Media! What I'm wanting to do is to again be able to hear the video as before when pressing Enter on it from Klango's Youtube interface. Any ideas? I'm using the latest Klango version and haven't installed or moved anything. Any ideas? Gerardo From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Mon May 10 03:06:25 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 23:06:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences References: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> Message-ID: Try Valenterring at a hospice, or nursing home. I think you should try to find something at your local church, in reguard to office work as well. for example, helping to write the church bulliton. RJ Sandefur ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences > Jewel, > Those are great opportunities you were in. I volunteered at the talking > book library but not regular library. Great idea to label CD books in > braille. > There may be opportunities at the library; I'll see about it; reading to > children or leading a discussion or something like that. > > Thanks for sharing! > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jewel S." > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 10:59 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences > > >>I have done mostly volunteer work at animal shelters. I only volunteer >> at no-kills, for one thing, and I particularly like the cat-only >> shelters. Most of the stuff I do at the shelter is what I do for my >> kitty at home...give them food and water, clean out litter boxes, >> socialize and play...I can also clean out cages, sort laundry, and >> talk to potential adopters. I really enjoy it. >> >> I have also volunteered at a public library. I really enjoy telling >> people about good books, and am pretty good at the online catalog, so >> I can find a book in the catalog and give the the call number, though >> I can't find it on the shelf since there's no Braille or such. But >> anyone can help them find the book once I locate in the catalog on the >> computer. >> >> I am in the middle of getting started with another volunteer >> opportunity at the local public library. I'm working on starting the >> fundraiser for it. I want to get the books on CD labelled in Braille >> like the books at the library for teh blind. I twould cost 11 cents >> per book, so that's not bad...but there are lots of books! Imagine the >> worlds that would be opened if we could check out these books >> ourselves, in addition to t he library for the blind's, RFBD, >> Bookshrare, audible.com, and all the rest! I brought it up at the last >> NFB meeting, and they are going to support my endeavours with a >> contribution and help with the fundraising. It is the sort of >> fundraising I really like, raising money toward a specific goal that >> will advocate the blind and Braille and educate others, while giving >> us more independence! >> >> Volunteer work doesn't have to be structured. Look around your >> neighbourhood and see what needs doing. If you plan on working with >> kids, perhaps volunteer to start a fundraiser to update the local >> playground to be more accessible or safer. If your preference is >> working with people in need, maybe join the Big Brothers, Big Sisters >> program? Show that child how great a role model you are, teach them >> the bus routes and how to walk around the area safely, take them to >> museums and zoos and the park and places like that...you can do some >> real good as a mentor to a child. >> The best advice I can give though is to find what needs doing, and do >> it! Yes, working at a soup kitchen will work on your resume, but if >> you start a new program that brings a smile and a meal to needy people >> who live on the streets or in the woods, that would be better (yes, >> people still live in the woods...I met one the other day, real nice >> guy, just down on his luck). Volunteering as a tutor will work, but >> starting a new after-school program for teens would look better. >> Reading to kids at the library would work, but it'll look better if >> you raised funds for a new playground or a collection of TwinVision >> books for the library, or some such. >> Just some ideas, >> Jewel >> >> On 5/8/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Can you share what volunteering you've done. I think volunteering has >>> many >>> beneficial purposes including building skills, experience, networking, >>> and a >>> way to help the community. Often organizations serve blind and disabled >>> people, so if we volunteer we can serve being on the other end. I am >>> putting out volunteer applications to nonprofits while I look for a job; >>> I >>> don't want a big gap on my resume. >>> >>> I volunteered at my talking book library checking/rewinding tapes. I >>> also >>> volunteered at a shelter with my church. I tutored children as well >>> with >>> Campus ministry in college. >>> But have not done too much in depth. >>> >>> Anyone volunteered at a food bank at a warehouse where you sort food? >>> Soup >>> kitchen? I've thought about that but not sure if its visual; I mean >>> would >>> you need to read labels to sort food items. For serving at a soup >>> kitchen, >>> I imagine its big with lots of people; I wonder if you need to see the >>> dishes and people so you know they are there to serve. I know once I >>> have >>> the dish, serving can be done by just placing the food on the plate and >>> I >>> can judge the amount and where the food is by feeling with the utensil. >>> I >>> have tunnel vision so I'd use that too. >>> >>> I'm also looking into volunteering at hospitals and nonprofit offices. I >>> don't foresee much access issues in the office as long as jaws is >>> compatable >>> with the programs on their computers. >>> >>> >>> Any advice or ideas would be helpful. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From kimthurman at insightbb.com Mon May 10 03:09:54 2010 From: kimthurman at insightbb.com (Kimberly thurman) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 23:09:54 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> Message-ID: I must add that I have not had to ask for sighted assistance since I took this Macbook out of the box when it was brand new. Voice Over is very easy to restart on the rare occasion it crashes. On May 8, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Briley Pollard wrote: > I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the others who have been using Macs longer than I. > > I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with viruses, computer crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used it exclusively, (gave up Windows cold turkey as it were), since December. Here are my general impressions. > > You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow Leopard isn't Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives me just as much control over everything I need, (internet, music, word processing, EMail, etc), as Jaws, just in a different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, and it was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in Voiceover since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I don't miss Jaws at all, and I'd been using it for twelve years. > > The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than Outlook to me. Of course, I find everything on the Mac very easy to understand. I think this fits in though with the general commentary that Macs are really user friendly and self explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I stopped trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS reader is built right in. > > Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For example, I have my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over a link in the browser, it beeps instead of saying "link". You can also change it so that way it says link before the link text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is easily tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. > > Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I find it does a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my word processing needs so far, but there are accessible options for office suite applications. I don't have them, so someone else might want to expound on IWork, but I've heard great things. > > Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple has been great at responding to accessibility requests. For example, I EMailed them after the recent ITunes update to inform them of some issues I was having. I got an EMail response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 EMails a day like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were solved. It is an attitude of universal access. I've just grown to semi expect that an application will work, and I have very rarely encountered things that are inaccessible to me, (as long as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew that). > > The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. It has gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes navigating around the system really intuitive. The internet is a breeze. I just need a few fingers, and I'm set to go. > > I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know computer problems happen on every platform, but I've experienced none thus far. If Voiceover gets cranky, (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a few weeks), I just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. > > It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen reader and a new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it all became natural to me. I turned on my roommate's computer the other day, and kept trying to make Jaws work with Voiceover commands. I also installed some software for her, and the process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me on my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no fussing from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of things for me. > > I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll repost. If you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, let me know. I'd be happy to demo it for you. > > Briley > > > On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >> yet, temptations abound. >> >> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >> have over the applications in your computer. >> >> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >> compatible with PC products. >> >> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >> makes Office documents readable? >> >> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >> >> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >> >> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >> >> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >> >> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kimthurman%40insightbb.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon May 10 03:11:44 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 22:11:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and the forest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've been following this thread for some time with interest as there are some good points of discussion. Now that the discussion has touched my home state, I feel some obligation to comment, hopefully in a way that helps all of us learn something. Kevin, if I read your message correctly, I think you are trying to make some valid points that people within a group do come together as subgroups to get certain jobs done. I am concerned about what apparently happened to you yesterday, though. I was not present after our convention here yesterday having to leave early because of senior prom activities. However, I did try to check with a few others who were in attendance. It has been a long tradition for people to go out to a restaurant after Metro Chapter meetings here in Minnesota and sometimes after conventions. Some here will not know that our convention here yesterday was what we call a "semiannual" convention and is a one day meeting and was held at the building we own jointly with BLIND Incorporated. Since there is no banquet at this meeting, there was a group who decided to go out to eat after the convention adjourned just as happens after Metro Chapter meetings. These have never been invitation only activities, and I am told that was the case yesterday as well. Generally, though, a reservation is made at the destination restaurant and it is necessary to get a count of everyone who is interested in going. There is usually a good sized crowd in the lobby of our building when this is done, and people generally call out that they are interested in going. If someone who attends regularly is not heard, there is usually an attempt to determine if that person is going to get an accurate count. I suppose this could be seen as an invitation to someone who is not part of this process, but Kevin, you have gone out after a chapter meeting with us before. I am a little surprise to see this come up in a national forum, therefore. I also understand that there was some confusion surrounding this for someone yesterday involving a scheduled ride. , and because this is an informal event, there are probably things about it that could be handled better, but portraying it as is done here is not accurate. There is a lot to planning a convention, and there has to be some advanced planning. There is going to be decisions made that affect how an issue is presented to a convention at times, and this will sometimes involve a judgement call on the part of the leadership. However, it is really pretty hard to not have something presented at a convention if a significant number of people want it presented. Still, I'm not sure what breakfast is being referenced. If there is something that could help us avoid the feeling of exclusion you had, please let us know. >From where I stand, we are having to engage in quite a complex balancing act in the Federation. Many of us who came through the 70's and 80's did experience much that brought us closer together. We felt that the course we chose on many events was the only course open to us. While it helped us grow, it was also very polarizing, and placed some of our members in very difficult positions. It became evident to many of us that carrying signs and picketing were important tools in getting our message heard, but it also became evident that would get us only so far. We need to be able to hire legal assistance of high quality when our rights are threatened. We need to have an impact on research that effects by assisting in that research. We are doing this now in a way we couldn't have begun to do twenty-five years ago. However, this has also made us more than a grass roots consumer group. It puts stress on us as an organization and as members. We need to be more than a grass roots consumer group and we need to be more than a faceless agency. This takes funds and it also takes the work of our membership. It means that newer members need to learn what we are, what we have tried, what has worked and what has not. This takes time to learn. One man's long meeting is anothers attempt to try to impart years of experience, failures, and successes. It is frustrating to have someone tell you that you should do this or that without even taking the time to find out that you are already doing it or why it didn't work. We need to listen to new ideas, too, but those presenting them have a responsibility to make the case well enough to show their value. Too often, opinions are expressed and when people don't immediately jump on their particular bandwagon, they blame the system rather than the idea itself or the way it was presented. This organization has changed and will continue to change because it is necessary to achieve our goals, but it won't be necessarily for any of us. However, sharing the load will make the load easier to carry than fighting over it. On Sat, 8 May 2010 21:57:13 -0500, Kevin Fjelsted wrote: >I am wondering if there isn't a natural tendency to form tribes groups >and sub groups within an organization to get things done. >Although I wasn't involved directly with NFB in the middle 80's I >remember the incredible work that was done by NFB which was certainly >equivalent to other fights to over come injustice and obtain equal >rights. THis fight was pertaining to the airlines and certainly must >have been a time of close clustering for those involved at the time. >THere was a local fight in Minnesota pertaining to a theme park which >would not let Blind people ride on theme park rides. >THere was another fight in Minnesota pertaining to the need for >BLindness Training that was responsive to the real needs of blind >people not an organization that was self serving. >In all these movements people had to take sides. Lines were drawn. >People needed to know who was committed to stand with them. >I contrast those memories with recent experiences that may illustrate >my point more directly. >I attended a local state convention last year in which I had made a >personal goal to begin to try and integrate myself into NFB because I >too wanted to learn more about how I could be involved in helping to >make a difference as part of a team. >Since I had not been involved in the various struggles and roots of >the local organization I was not let in and learned very quickly that >although there was a public convention there was a private convention >consisting of dinners informal meetings breakfasts&. which was where >the real work and sharing occurred. >I attended another local convention today and observed the very same >thing happening. After the main convention a grip of people who are >more senior in the organization choose to invite some people to group >with them for after hours meetings a dinner and more intimate sharing. > Although there may be an overall organization > for NFB with a mission a culture a membership goal and the like the >true work will always get done by those who are on deck for a certain >activity. THen as the activities evolve those who were committed when >things were tough will have a natural defensive mechanism which will >create a tribe, group or cluster that resists letting new people in. >Interestingly enough those new people who wish to integrate may end up >starting there own splinter tribes chiefly because the existing tribes >won't let them in. > At the same time the existing tribes will be scratching there heads >wondering how to mentor the new people and then really scratching >there heads about why those new people are starting there own groups >and having to learn all over again what it means to be part of NFB >without the help of the experienced ones. >-Kevin >On 5/8/10, Harry Hogue wrote: >> Joe, >> I so >> Completely agree with your post , particularly concerning making people >> feel bad for not attending training centers (as if they are somehow >> lacking). I have noticed that it is more or less assumed, in some cases, >> that if someone is blind and has not gone to a training center (NFB or not), >> then they are necessarily less competent, etc. I have always said that life >> is what you make of it, and the most value you gain from any experience, be >> that at a training center or through living life in its various stages, is a >> different perspective. It is said that there cannot possibly be any new >> ideas, as all of the ideas have already been thought of by someone before >> you. In this case, a new idea is not what is needed (do this, don't do >> that, and so forth), but a new perspective. Change your perspective and you >> will change your world. >> >> It may sound selfish to some, but I say if you first live for yourself and >> then live to help others you will be on the right track, because you are no >> good to anyone if you are not first comfortable within your own skin, and >> first take care of your needs. No organization should become your life, >> whether that it religious, advocacy, or what have you. You should have your >> family, your profession (work) life, and then things about which you are >> passionate (cancer groups, NFB, helping children, etc). This should fall in >> with this category. If blindness is a characteristic, then I am going to >> live my life to show this; it makes me very angry when people make out like >> I am responsible to all blind people in the world to raise money, promote >> this or that program, and so forth. And, I have to freely admit that part >> of this is the fact that I do not like anything which resembles >> unquestioning obedience or fellowship -- that is to say, I take what I need >> from such things and leave the rest. I do not hold as closely to the church >> of my childhood for this reason, but that is a discussion for another time. >> The same is with the NFB. We are never told where they get their >> statistics, but are just expected to accept them unquestioningly as true and >> accurate. Once I got in college and began to question things around me, I >> realized how ridiculous many things are in the world, and religion was one >> (again, different discussion, as it has absolutely no relevance here), and >> that led me to think about how so many people never question what they are >> taught, and just accept it with no proof. The other thing is this: >> organizations love buzzwords. They love to throw them around, and they >> write their literature, deliver their speeches, and promote their programs >> with the clear message that they, and they alone have the answer and are >> right, and anyone who disagrees is stupid. This is a common thread with >> organizations/religious groups, if you notice. The point I want to >> emphasize is the "we have the answers," part. My basic thing I like to >> remember about people is this: Everyone thinks they're right, everyone >> knows best, everyone always has the answer, and no one can disagree or >> you're stupid. This goes for individuals as well as groups. And, then >> again, maybe I'm just scinical, bitter, and all the rest of it. But these >> are only my thoughts. >> >> Thanks for your time. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >> Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 11:40 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And, examining the tree and >> the forest >> >> Dear Heather and all, >> >> A well-written, thought-provoking post as always. Yet I have to confess it >> was one of those messages where I heartily agreed with certain points and >> completely disagreed with others. >> >> Your message says that what happens in our community is up to us regardless >> of what the national office decides to build or how it decides to spend its >> money. Unfortunately, even in the Christian church example you provide, >> local branches, or in our case local chapters, cannot exist as independent >> operations with little regard for the customs, norms and influence promoted >> by the central body. People in the NFB are asked to give up their free time >> to attend meetings, to volunteer between meetings, to make donations, and to >> budget for expensive trips to conventions across the state and across the >> country. In a perfect world the warmth and camaraderie of one's own >> community would be enough to satisfy one's need to know to what end their >> time is being invested. Yet local chapters review presidential releases. >> Veteran members strongly encourage freshmen to attend conventions, and the >> freshmen and the curious succumb to these activities because it is human >> nature to want to learn and do more. Modern technology makes it impossible >> to settle for small-town satisfaction. >> >> This in of itself is not anything negative. The national conventions are >> large enough to accommodate individual interests. The problem comes into >> play when the national body leans on state affiliates to produce more than >> what the state affiliates can produce. What happens at the national level >> very much impacts local communities, because ultimately it is up to the >> general membership to help bring in the money to build what the national >> office wants. I do not buy into the belief that major decisions are >> dictated by convention resolutions, many of which are not fulfilled, but the >> level of tilted demand and fractured communication between the national >> office and state affiliates are one reason we witness incidents like the New >> Hampshire affiliate collapse. New Hampshire is the rare exception, but how >> many other New Hampshires are there in our midst? >> >> You make the excellent point that what the organization looks like in fifty >> years will largely depend on what we as individuals choose to contribute. >> That's an interesting proposal. I came into the organization almost nine >> years ago, made a lot of noise, discovered that the best way to be heard was >> to do the hard work, did the hard work so that I could give my complaints a >> foundation, and even after some of my better efforts discovered that >> diligent service only carries you so far. In my case, I could genuinely >> care less if people like me as an individual so long as the ideas I propose >> to help blind people as a whole are given a fair audience. Hard work, it >> seemed, was only appreciated so long as I followed the party line. >> Conventions are the place to debate decisions, and any debate between >> conventions is just unthinkable. Well, when it came to deciding whether I >> would spend my time developing my professional aspirations or devoting my >> time to an organization that only showed conditional appreciation for my >> talents, the choice wasn't that difficult. >> >> Since only 10 percent of the people actually carry out the work of the >> organization, where does that leave those of us who want to help the NFB but >> are not passionate enough about the blindness movement to devote the hours >> necessary to make a real difference? I, for instance, have other >> aspirations. I want to work with troubled youth and victims of human >> trafficking, and I have to try to make time in a day to volunteer in those >> areas after I finish my full-time job and run my communications company. >> Does this somehow make my opinions less than worthy because I am not giving >> the organization 100 percent of my devotion? This logic, to me, suggests >> that if you are blind, you would be wrong not to belong to the NFB and pull >> your full weight. Not all cancer survivors devote the balance of their >> lives to finding a cure. Moreover, what good is believing in the philosophy >> if you do not exercise the philosophy in the areas that interest you most? >> >> I may very well be tuned into the wrong channel, but from where I'm sitting >> and the conversations I'm tapping into, people trip over themselves to >> complain about this or make fun of that, youth and adults alike, but hold >> them accountable in a public forum and it's all about amen to the glory of >> the NFB. Give credit where credit is due, but we really will not survive if >> we only know how to give unquestioning allegiance to the people in power. >> The NFB has historically questioned authority and raised a call to action to >> change that with which it did not agree. I take it the same cannot be said >> about internal calls for improvements? >> >> If only fully committed members are valued, then I guess I know where the >> door is. Maybe there really is no one patient enough to tame this weapon. >> Yet there is still the matter of the people yet to be brought in. These are >> people who are unfortunately made to feel less than perfect if they do not >> attend one of our training centers. These are people who are made to feel >> less loyal if they do not use one of our long canes. These are people who >> are not deemed "normal" if their personal habits, social skills and >> philosophies do not mesh with our own. As an example, one weekend I was at >> a leadership seminar at the National Center. A well-known student >> accidentally dropped their plate in the dining room at dinner time. The >> student was mortified not because they had dropped their plate, but because >> they had dropped their plate in the presence of other blind people in the >> highly esteemed National Center. I mean, so much for all this nonsense >> about how the National Center is supposed to be our house. I guarantee that >> if anyone from this list ever set foot into my home, you would never be made >> to feel as awkwardly uncomfortable as the National Center has the ability to >> make people feel. I felt so incredibly bad for the student in question but >> could honestly not think of what to say to make them feel better. >> >> It's arrogance in almost its purest form. I'm an arrogant guy and >> appreciate the mentality, but the organization cannot afford to be so >> condescending to the people who do not purchase the whole cow, not when the >> organization chooses to isolate itself from other cross disability groups >> and thinks its methods of doing things are better than even other blindness >> organizations. I think I could count the number of times the NFB has >> partnered up with other groups to send a message. >> >> And so here we are. I feel good about the service I provided to the NFB in >> my more active years. I fully intend to use my resources to try to help >> divisions, affiliates and local chapters expand their operations as soon as >> I can give the project proper attention, but to be honest, I do it because I >> care about the people more than I care about the organization and its >> doctrine. Somewhere along the way banquet speeches weren't enough to >> mobilize my efforts, and at the moment the only thing the NFB can offer me >> is the opportunity to raise money for projects with no short-term benefits >> to the people who genuinely need help getting educated and employed. My >> hard-earned dollars seem to be better spent on hungry families in Washington >> DC by way of my church. >> >> I believe the NFB will fade away in due course not because there will no >> longer be a need for proper advocacy on behalf of the blind. Rather, it >> will fade away because the up and coming generation will figure out that it >> can accomplish what the NFB wants to achieve and then some, and be more >> inclusive about it. As Heather pointed out, this generation is not a >> generation of joiners. The ones who do make it their life's work to help >> the blind need only come up with one good alternative to make both the NFB >> and ACB irrelevant, only, one, alternative. >> >> Joe Orozco >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of H. Field >> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:38 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots. And,examining the >> tree and the forest >> >> Hi all, >> It is very easy to blame generalised groups. "The older generation", >> "leadership", "fund-raising" and so on. However, the real truth about >> the growth and education of this organisation, the NFB, is the same as >> it is for all similar groups. To demonstrate what I'm referring to, >> let me take a moment to share what we can learn from other similar >> groups. One such similar group is the Christian church. I have read of >> how some other religious groups, and some sporting groups and clubs >> which function the same. But, for the purposes of this post, I want >> to use a group that most of us have had some experience with at some >> time or other. >> >> Many studies have been done over the years about how various Christian >> churches, grow and maintain, their membership and perform their work. >> Without fail, the results of the studies show that churches gain and >> keep new members wehn people are personally invited by a personal >> friend or relative. People continue to stay at a particular church and >> get involved in the work of their church because they are mentored, >> discipled personally by other members of the church. >> >> This is the simple truth. People join a Christian church of choice, >> get involved in church work, and promote that particular philosophical >> interpretation of the Bible which their church adheres to because of >> the personal factor. All the studies show that personal invitation by >> friend/family member, personal mentoring, and opportunity to serve are >> the tree factors in the growth and maintenance of a church. Training >> classes, media advertising, door knocking and "sales pitches" by >> strangers, and other publicity events such as having a booth at a >> local fair, will bring in a very small percentage of people of whom a >> smaller percentage actually stay. so, if you want to know what works >> there it is. >> >> I have been a chapter president and I know what it is like to try to >> get the work of the organisation done. It is not as simple as saying >> that the leadership or the older generation are letting young people >> down. The nfb exists within a society and any meaningful assessment of >> the organisation must be made in the social context in which it >> operates. Some current social trends in first world countries are >> worth considering. >> >> 1. Generations since the Baby-boomers are much less inclined to do >> volunteer work. >> 2. Post Baby-boomer generations are much less inclined to join, and >> commit to groups such as service clubs, The Red Cross etc. >> 3. The pressure for women to work outside of the home leaves less >> leisure time for social group involvement. >> 4. The number of disability groups vying for public attention is much >> larger in this century than the last. Factors causing this include the >> incredible advances in medical competence, the development of >> technology to sustain life longer, and the success of the civil rights >> movement which has put the disability community out of institutions >> and into the public arena. This means more people to consume finite >> resources such as jobs, government assistance programmes and volunteer >> transportation assistance. >> 5. A blindness specific social factor is the decentralisation of >> education for blind students. Many more blind children are growing up >> with minimal and marginal contact with formal groups of and/or for the >> blind. This means that networking on a personal basis is more >> difficult and, ironically, that attitudes against accepting the >> respectability of blindness are harder to influence. >> 6. The largest and fastest growing group of blind people in the >> western world are adults over 65 years of age. >> >> The world in which the current NFB is functioning is vastly different >> from the one that existed when it began, and even from the nineteen >> nineties. Yes, many of the things Doctor Jernigan told us to strive >> for in his speeches have not yet been achieved, but the reasons why >> are much more complex than simply saying the organisation has focused >> on fund-raising or centralising programmes. A far better approach is >> to begin with one's self and look at what one has personally done to >> increase the influence and effectiveness of the organisation. Whatever >> the national leadership decide to spend or build, what happens in my >> town is up to me and my blind and sighted friends who believe the NFB >> philosophy and live it as best we can. Local chapters are the mouth >> and arms and legs of the organisation. It is in local chapters that >> new people receive words of welcome and empowerment, hugs of >> encouragement and affirmation, friends and mentors to walk alongside >> them and visit them at home and teach them skills and hope for a >> better life. I ask myself how many new people I have brought to >> meetings after reaching out and getting to know them. Do I attend all >> my chapter meetings and events and make a difference by my physical >> presence? What have I done to reach out to other blind people? It can >> be a sobering experience if you are willing to sit down and ask >> yourself the hard questions. >> >> I began with the observation that reliable studies show that it is >> person to person outreach and mentoring/discipling that brings new >> members to social organisations. I will close by sharing another two, >> scientifically varified facts about the successful functioning of >> groups like the NFB. >> 1. Between 9 and 12 percent of the membership are willing and able to >> take on leadership positions. >> 2. Roughly ten percent of the people do roughly 90 percent of the >> work. Generally, the remaining membership attend sporadically, work >> occasionally and talk. and, I would assume in these days of >> techological communication, e-mail, text and twitter. >> >> What people are prepared to actually, do. in their community will >> determine what the NFB looks like and what it is doing in fifty years. >> >> Regards, >> >> Heather Field >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:05 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >> >> >> I think it is perhaps a stretch to say we won't exist in just 50 >> years, but I do think the purpose and philosophy will be very diluted >> at that point if something isn't done. I did bring it up to say that >> we have a responsibility to sea out information, but I do think the >> leadership needs to be more efficient at educating new comers. This is >> just speculation on my part, but I think part of the reason why the >> specifics and history of the philosophy stopped being pushed so hard >> is because the federation didn't want to scare off new members. While >> I think it is a poor approach to immediately yank away a cane that may >> be too short, or talk constantly of the "glory days" as soon as >> someone walks in the door, I think a better effort needs to be made at >> empowering and educating the membership as a whole. >> >> Thanks for your thoughts, >> Briley >> On May 2, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Briley, >>> >>> I don't know how many people actually read my series of action plan >>> posts. >>> I'm wrapping it up anyway just to finish my ramblings, and it's >>> funny that >>> you mention roots because it's basically the foreground of what I >>> have to >>> contribute. Yet, I am not convinced the blame rests squarely on our >>> generation. Actually, it is my theory that the older generation is >>> almost >>> completely responsible for our sense of complacency. I believe the >>> National >>> Center has saturated the work of the organization so much with >>> fundraising >>> and technological design that everyday philosophy has been >>> forgotten. It is >>> my personal belief that our philosophy has become more the banner >>> than the >>> engine, and at this rate I do not believe the NFB will exist in 50 >>> years, >>> maybe sooner. Outrageous? Of course it is, but considering the >>> source, are >>> you surprised? More later, but I'm glad the subject came up. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Briley Pollard >>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:31 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Appreciating our roots >>> >>> I do think our generation in many ways has a sense of >>> entitlement. I think a better understanding of our history and >>> our purpose as an organization will better define that line >>> between entitlement and creating a level playing field. To whom >>> much is given, much is required, and I think people all too >>> often forget that. >>> >>> Briley >>> On May 2, 2010, at 5:23 PM, David Andrews wrote: >>> >>>> As an old-timer, thank you! It is important to remember that >>> our ceiling is your floor. What you can take for granted is >>> what we had to fight for! >>>> >>>> And ... we came from a time that was in some ways simpler, >>> but where we asked for as little as possible. We will not ever >>> be as comfortable as your generation with asking for some >>> stuff. We also feel somewhat like there is an entitlement >>> attitude, and people are not as self sufficient as they need to >>> be in the real world. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 03:35 PM 5/2/2010, you wrote: >>>>> Good afternoon all, >>>>> >>>>> I am writing to open up a topic of conversation which I feel >>> is to often overlooked in our organization; our history as a >>> movement. I've grown up in this organization, and admittedly >>> didn't fully understand our history until about a month ago >>> when I began digging a little deeper. >>>>> >>>>> The federation has always been an important force in my >>> life, and has shaped my views about my blindness, even during >>> the periods where I wasn't actively involved. I always heard >>> about what great leaders we've had, and was exposed to tidbits >>> of information at state conventions or national events. But >>> most of the focus has always been on the here and now, which is >>> understandable to a point. It is vital that we understand the >>> obstacles that the blind community as a whole faces on a daily >>> basis, and how the federation is responding to them. However, >>> life events have spurred me on to discover more about our >>> roots. I'll keep the story short for brevity's sake, but it has >>> a point which I think is important, so stay with me. >>>>> >>>>> I am dating someone who has never been actively involved >>> with any of the blindness consumer organizations. He recently >>> realized his need for further training, and that lead him to >>> ask me my reasons for being a federationist. He began asking me >>> questions about how the federation began, how the philosophy >>> developed, and how the rehabilitation views of the NFB evolved. >>> I found myself unable to answer a lot of his questions, and was >>> disappointed in myself. I knew vague details about Dr. >>> Jernigan's involvement with the Iowa Commission for the Blind, >>> and something about airplane issues in the 70's and 80's, but >>> beyond that, my historical knowledge of the NFB was supremely >>> limited. After discussing this with some of my friends in the >>> organization, I found that the problem wasn't just with me. I'm >>> on the board of our local chapter, and it became apparent to me >>> after out last meeting that this is a widespread problem. We >>> have lost touch with our past, and that is never good. Roots >>> are vital to the life of any tree, and without them, we wouldn't >>> exist. >>>>> >>>>> I began to dig, which isn't hard to do. Nationals has done >>> an amazing job of making our history available to us. >>> www.nfb.org is a gold mine of information, even some of the >>> parts that are hard to see. Issues of the Braille Monitor are >>> available online going back 25 years, and important speeches >>> are available in both text and recorded form going back before >>> that. I have found myself appalled by the discrimination that >>> blind people faced even just twenty years ago. The fortitude it >>> took to get out there every day and command respect from a >>> sighted public is not just commendable, but amazing to me. >>>>> >>>>> I think that sometimes, the youth of this organization >>> accuse the older generation of the federation of being too >>> "militant," or "confrontational." While I do not always agree >>> with how the older generation has approached some issues, when >>> you really dig and read about what they had to indoor just to >>> be able to do things we take for granted today, you develop a >>> greater respect for their views and approach. We still have a >>> long way to go in some respects, but we have come far, and I >>> think we've lost respect for our past. >>>>> >>>>> I encourage everyone to sea out and understand the >>> beginnings and progress our movement has made over the past 70 >>> years. You will be amazed, and it will make you really >>> understand, respect, and love this organization. I have had my >>> share of frustrations with the organization over the years. But >>> I must admit that I am so proud to be a part of the NFB, not >>> just for what it has meant to me, but what it has done even >>> before I was born to insure that I can live and work in a world >>> where I am seen as an equal with my sighted peers. No >>> organization is perfect because no person is perfect. But we >>> must all remember to appreciate this community we have, built >>> upon a solid foundation provided by many generations of blind >>> people before us, tirelessly working to show that blindness >>> should not limit our life choices. >>>>> >>>>> Let's all make a greater effort to know and appreciate our >>> history. We will all be better for it. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Briley >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >>> 40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >>> virus signature database 5080 (20100502) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5080 (20100502) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>> for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp% >> 40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheat >> her%40comcast.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >> >-- >Kevin Fjelsted >B Harris, Inc. >http://www.bharrisinc.com >kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com >http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted >Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 >Direct: 612.424.7332 >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 10 03:27:24 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 20:27:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The Internet! In-Reply-To: <5CE36DE3-AD78-43E1-9B23-7615781A2671@gmail.com> References: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa> <5CE36DE3-AD78-43E1-9B23-7615781A2671@gmail.com> Message-ID: Briley, Thanks so much! I have to say that I listened to a bit of it via the stream and I enjoyed the sound quality as well. I think much thanks has to go to David for setting up this option and streaming this for us. Also, much thanks has to go to the membership committee as a whole for making this happen, everyone who joined the call and brought some wonderful insight and our guest speakers for being so giving of their time and knowledge. Thanks for the feedback and thank you everybody! These discussions with our peers on more of a personal level, and the ability to have more people exposed to the great information that we hear every month is what we hope for when we do this. Thanks again, Darian On 5/9/10, Briley Pollard wrote: > This stream sounds fabulous. I like it much better than using my phone. Can > hear it better. > > There is some fantastic conversation going on. Things that aren't usually > talked about. I wish I could participate from my computer. But this will do. > > Great job, NABS board. This stuff is really useful. > > Briley > On May 9, 2010, at 8:47 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > >> Hi There! >> Please feel free to pass the following on to anyone you feel would benefit >> from this message: >> In the past when we've done our monthly NABS conference calls, you could >> only listen in using your telephone. And if you couldn't call in or make >> the conference, you'd lose out on some potentially useful information. >> But starting tonight, all that changes... >> Tonight's Philosophy 101 conference call can be heard over the internet! >> Starting at 8 PM eastern (7 central, 6 mountan, 5 pacific) you can use the >> following link to tune in to our conference call using your computer: >> http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html >> >> >> Once on that page, you'll be presented with different options for >> accessing the call live using your pc's default media player or our >> special web player! >> Can't make the call tonight? No problem. >> Soon after the call completes, a link will be sent to the nabs list and to >> the nabs twitter account for downloading the call. Now you can still >> benefit from the information we have to share even if you can't make the >> live presentation! >> So don't forget. Use this link to listen in starting at 8 PM eastern: >> http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html >> And if you have any problems, send an email to >> david.dunphy at nabslinkaudio.org >> Enjoy the call, and to the moms out there, have a happy Mother's Day! >> Warmest regards, >> David Dunphy >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 10 11:45:49 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 06:45:49 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: <204201caefab$0cea05b0$6601a8c0@server> References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <204201caefab$0cea05b0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Hi Dennis, I'm glad I was helpful. I have a 13 inch, aluminum MacBook Pro. I would suggest going with one of the MacBook Pro models if you're looking for a lap top solution. You get more bang for your buck, and a lot more RAM as well as a faster processor right out of the gate. A new line of MacBook Pro's just launched. To get the upgrade processors though you'd have to get a 15 Inch model, and of course it is a little more expensive, but the upgrade in speed would be worth it. I love my 13 inch because it is so portable, and I can always upgrade the harddrive myself one day if I so choose. The specs on mine are; 4 GB Ram 2.56 GHZ Processor 320 GB Harddrive The Apple site makes it very easy to order and customize your orders. If you're looking for something that isn't a lap top, I'm not the person to talk to. I might be able to point you in the right direction though. I know a few people who are using Mac Minis in their home offices and love them, (particularly because they're so inexpensive). Hope this helps, Briley On May 9, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hi Briley, > This was a wonderful helpful post. I have been wanting to try the Mac and you may have pushed me over the edge. I do not know the various models, so can you tell me which model you have and do you have any recommendations as to which models are best and which to avoid, if any? I look forward to hearing from you and again I want to thank you for the great post. > Best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:17 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc > > >> I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the others who have been using Macs longer than I. >> >> I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with viruses, computer crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used it exclusively, (gave up Windows cold turkey as it were), since December. Here are my general impressions. >> >> You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow Leopard isn't Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives me just as much control over everything I need, (internet, music, word processing, EMail, etc), as Jaws, just in a different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, and it was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in Voiceover since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I don't miss Jaws at all, and I'd been using it for twelve years. >> >> The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than Outlook to me. Of course, I find everything on the Mac very easy to understand. I think this fits in though with the general commentary that Macs are really user friendly and self explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I stopped trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS reader is built right in. >> >> Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For example, I have my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over a link in the browser, it beeps instead of saying "link". You can also change it so that way it says link before the link text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is easily tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. >> >> Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I find it does a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my word processing needs so far, but there are accessible options for office suite applications. I don't have them, so someone else might want to expound on IWork, but I've heard great things. >> >> Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple has been great at responding to accessibility requests. For example, I EMailed them after the recent ITunes update to inform them of some issues I was having. I got an EMail response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 EMails a day like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were solved. It is an attitude of universal access. I've just grown to semi expect that an application will work, and I have very rarely encountered things that are inaccessible to me, (as long as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew that). >> >> The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. It has gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes navigating around the system really intuitive. The internet is a breeze. I just need a few fingers, and I'm set to go. >> >> I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know computer problems happen on every platform, but I've experienced none thus far. If Voiceover gets cranky, (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a few weeks), I just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. >> >> It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen reader and a new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it all became natural to me. I turned on my roommate's computer the other day, and kept trying to make Jaws work with Voiceover commands. I also installed some software for her, and the process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me on my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no fussing from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of things for me. >> >> I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll repost. If you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, let me know. I'd be happy to demo it for you. >> >> Briley >> >> >> On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >>> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >>> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >>> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >>> yet, temptations abound. >>> >>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >>> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>> have over the applications in your computer. >>> >>> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >>> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >>> compatible with PC products. >>> >>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>> makes Office documents readable? >>> >>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>> >>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>> >>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>> >>> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >>> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >>> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >>> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >>> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >>> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >>> >>> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com Mon May 10 15:22:43 2010 From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:22:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Last Night's Conference Call Is Now Available For Download Message-ID: Greetings All! In case this didn't get posted already, I'm inviting you to check our conference call on Philosophy 101 from last night. The link to check it out is at http://bit.ly/aSYNpg And to find out how you can subscribe to our presentations as a podcast, go to http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations If you have any questions or would like any of your individual student division calls recorded/streamed, email me at david.dunphy at nabslinkaudio.org All the best, David Dunphy From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Mon May 10 15:58:58 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 08:58:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences In-Reply-To: References: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi all, Jewl you bring up some great ideas. the biggest thing is finding something that you will enjoy and invest your time in it. I think it's very important to present ourselves as individuals that can, will and do give back to their communities. Think about it, with any person a community gives so much to us; blind or not, and to give something back that someone gave to us can be a verypositive and uplifting expirience. some say, that giving back is good for the soul. I've worked with blind seniors and youth in recreational programs and worked in community gardens as well. I've done mass mailings and recruitment visits for non-profits and am looking to expand and do more work with the sierra club and AmeriCorps Alums programs. I did a bunch of different things on project rounds with AmeriCorps as well. Darian On 5/9/10, RJ Sandefur wrote: > Try Valenterring at a hospice, or nursing home. I think you should try to > find something at your local church, in reguard to office work as well. for > example, helping to write the church bulliton. RJ Sandefur > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ashley Bramlett" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences > > >> Jewel, >> Those are great opportunities you were in. I volunteered at the talking >> book library but not regular library. Great idea to label CD books in >> braille. >> There may be opportunities at the library; I'll see about it; reading to >> children or leading a discussion or something like that. >> >> Thanks for sharing! >> Ashley >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jewel S." >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 10:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences >> >> >>>I have done mostly volunteer work at animal shelters. I only volunteer >>> at no-kills, for one thing, and I particularly like the cat-only >>> shelters. Most of the stuff I do at the shelter is what I do for my >>> kitty at home...give them food and water, clean out litter boxes, >>> socialize and play...I can also clean out cages, sort laundry, and >>> talk to potential adopters. I really enjoy it. >>> >>> I have also volunteered at a public library. I really enjoy telling >>> people about good books, and am pretty good at the online catalog, so >>> I can find a book in the catalog and give the the call number, though >>> I can't find it on the shelf since there's no Braille or such. But >>> anyone can help them find the book once I locate in the catalog on the >>> computer. >>> >>> I am in the middle of getting started with another volunteer >>> opportunity at the local public library. I'm working on starting the >>> fundraiser for it. I want to get the books on CD labelled in Braille >>> like the books at the library for teh blind. I twould cost 11 cents >>> per book, so that's not bad...but there are lots of books! Imagine the >>> worlds that would be opened if we could check out these books >>> ourselves, in addition to t he library for the blind's, RFBD, >>> Bookshrare, audible.com, and all the rest! I brought it up at the last >>> NFB meeting, and they are going to support my endeavours with a >>> contribution and help with the fundraising. It is the sort of >>> fundraising I really like, raising money toward a specific goal that >>> will advocate the blind and Braille and educate others, while giving >>> us more independence! >>> >>> Volunteer work doesn't have to be structured. Look around your >>> neighbourhood and see what needs doing. If you plan on working with >>> kids, perhaps volunteer to start a fundraiser to update the local >>> playground to be more accessible or safer. If your preference is >>> working with people in need, maybe join the Big Brothers, Big Sisters >>> program? Show that child how great a role model you are, teach them >>> the bus routes and how to walk around the area safely, take them to >>> museums and zoos and the park and places like that...you can do some >>> real good as a mentor to a child. >>> The best advice I can give though is to find what needs doing, and do >>> it! Yes, working at a soup kitchen will work on your resume, but if >>> you start a new program that brings a smile and a meal to needy people >>> who live on the streets or in the woods, that would be better (yes, >>> people still live in the woods...I met one the other day, real nice >>> guy, just down on his luck). Volunteering as a tutor will work, but >>> starting a new after-school program for teens would look better. >>> Reading to kids at the library would work, but it'll look better if >>> you raised funds for a new playground or a collection of TwinVision >>> books for the library, or some such. >>> Just some ideas, >>> Jewel >>> >>> On 5/8/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Can you share what volunteering you've done. I think volunteering has >>>> many >>>> beneficial purposes including building skills, experience, networking, >>>> and a >>>> way to help the community. Often organizations serve blind and disabled >>>> people, so if we volunteer we can serve being on the other end. I am >>>> putting out volunteer applications to nonprofits while I look for a job; >>>> >>>> I >>>> don't want a big gap on my resume. >>>> >>>> I volunteered at my talking book library checking/rewinding tapes. I >>>> also >>>> volunteered at a shelter with my church. I tutored children as well >>>> with >>>> Campus ministry in college. >>>> But have not done too much in depth. >>>> >>>> Anyone volunteered at a food bank at a warehouse where you sort food? >>>> Soup >>>> kitchen? I've thought about that but not sure if its visual; I mean >>>> would >>>> you need to read labels to sort food items. For serving at a soup >>>> kitchen, >>>> I imagine its big with lots of people; I wonder if you need to see the >>>> dishes and people so you know they are there to serve. I know once I >>>> have >>>> the dish, serving can be done by just placing the food on the plate and >>>> I >>>> can judge the amount and where the food is by feeling with the utensil. >>>> I >>>> have tunnel vision so I'd use that too. >>>> >>>> I'm also looking into volunteering at hospitals and nonprofit offices. I >>>> don't foresee much access issues in the office as long as jaws is >>>> compatable >>>> with the programs on their computers. >>>> >>>> >>>> Any advice or ideas would be helpful. >>>> >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From dianefilipe at peoplepc.com Mon May 10 17:30:07 2010 From: dianefilipe at peoplepc.com (Diane) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 11:30:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Ray McGeorge Message-ID: <77A772448BC748DCACE89230B600333B@DianePC> Greetings: I have the unfortunate task of informing you that our friend and long-time leader and colleague in the movement, Ray McGeorge is in the hospital with meningitis. Yesterday morning, Sunday, Diane was unable to wake Ray up and they immediately rushed Ray to the hospital. Because he had difficulty breathing, they placed Ray on a respirator and started pumping him full of antibiotics. Ray is in the ICU here at Rose Hospital in Denver. They are keeping him heavily Sedated and on the respirator to make it easier for his body to fight off the infection. The doctors are very confident that he will be able to fight this off but it will take a few days of intensive treatment. Diane tells me that Ray has triggered the respirator himself several times this morning meaning that he is gaining strength and trying to take over breathing on his own. For all of us who know Ray, we know that he has a tremendous positive attitude and that he is incredibly strong. I am confident also that Ray will come through this with flying colors but please add your positive thoughts and prayers. I will update you on Ray as I get more information. Please feel free to forward this post as broadly as you like. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ Colorado-talk mailing list Colorado-talk at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/colorado-talk_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Colorado-talk: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/colorado-talk_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Mon May 10 18:46:59 2010 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 13:46:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc In-Reply-To: References: <98217663D7D74274A7F3FB049D35435D@Rufus> <204201caefab$0cea05b0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <921BFBBE-234D-4B64-A96E-5086E10DADAE@sbcglobal.net> Good afternoon all, A few messages back, I believe someone asked about the availability of read receipts for Mac Mail. While this feature is not built in to the initial Mail interface at present, this is something I along with many other Mac users have expressed to Apple as being a desired feature. Anyway, all this to say that while the ability is not built in it is still possible if one is comfortable with using terminal commands. Please read the instructions by navigating to the following link: http://email.about.com/od/macosxmailtips/qt/et_request_recp.htm Hope this helps. Regards: Hai On May 10, 2010, at 6:45 AM, Briley Pollard wrote: > Hi Dennis, > > I'm glad I was helpful. I have a 13 inch, aluminum MacBook Pro. I would suggest going with one of the MacBook Pro models if you're looking for a lap top solution. You get more bang for your buck, and a lot more RAM as well as a faster processor right out of the gate. > > A new line of MacBook Pro's just launched. To get the upgrade processors though you'd have to get a 15 Inch model, and of course it is a little more expensive, but the upgrade in speed would be worth it. I love my 13 inch because it is so portable, and I can always upgrade the harddrive myself one day if I so choose. The specs on mine are; > > 4 GB Ram > 2.56 GHZ Processor > 320 GB Harddrive > > The Apple site makes it very easy to order and customize your orders. > > If you're looking for something that isn't a lap top, I'm not the person to talk to. I might be able to point you in the right direction though. I know a few people who are using Mac Minis in their home offices and love them, (particularly because they're so inexpensive). > > Hope this helps, > Briley > On May 9, 2010, at 2:08 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > >> Hi Briley, >> This was a wonderful helpful post. I have been wanting to try the Mac and you may have pushed me over the edge. I do not know the various models, so can you tell me which model you have and do you have any recommendations as to which models are best and which to avoid, if any? I look forward to hearing from you and again I want to thank you for the great post. >> Best, >> Dennis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >> >> >>> I can speak to a few of your questions, and will leave the others who have been using Macs longer than I. >>> >>> I was always a PC user, but after much frustration with viruses, computer crashes of doom, etc, I got a Mac. I've used it exclusively, (gave up Windows cold turkey as it were), since December. Here are my general impressions. >>> >>> You have to not expect VoiceOver to be Jaws because Snow Leopard isn't Windows. The way it interacts with programs gives me just as much control over everything I need, (internet, music, word processing, EMail, etc), as Jaws, just in a different way. I took this out of the box, turned it on, and it was 100 percent workable. I can't speak to the changes in Voiceover since I'm a relatively new user, but I know that I don't miss Jaws at all, and I'd been using it for twelve years. >>> >>> The Mail client is so easy to use, and a lot easier than Outlook to me. Of course, I find everything on the Mac very easy to understand. I think this fits in though with the general commentary that Macs are really user friendly and self explanatory. Everything was very intuitive, once I stopped trying to get things done using windows keyboard shortcuts. Multiple EMail accounts are easy to manipulate, and the RSS reader is built right in. >>> >>> Voiceover is also a very customizable screen reader. For example, I have my verbosity settings set so that when I'm over a link in the browser, it beeps instead of saying "link". You can also change it so that way it says link before the link text, or link after, if that is what you want. It is easily tailored to your individual needs. I'm sure there are a lot of things that it can do which I haven't discovered yet. >>> >>> Text Edit comes with the Mac, (similar to Note Pad, except I find it does a lot more than that). It has fulfilled all of my word processing needs so far, but there are accessible options for office suite applications. I don't have them, so someone else might want to expound on IWork, but I've heard great things. >>> >>> Voiceover fixes usually accompany any system update, and Apple has been great at responding to accessibility requests. For example, I EMailed them after the recent ITunes update to inform them of some issues I was having. I got an EMail response in 10 minutes asking for more information. Shortly thereafter, (probably due to the fact they were getting 100 EMails a day like mine), ITunes came out and our issues were solved. It is an attitude of universal access. I've just grown to semi expect that an application will work, and I have very rarely encountered things that are inaccessible to me, (as long as they don't include flash, but I'm sure you already knew that). >>> >>> The track pad commander on the MacBook Pros is also brilliant. It has gestures similar to that of the IPhone OS, and makes navigating around the system really intuitive. The internet is a breeze. I just need a few fingers, and I'm set to go. >>> >>> I've also never had a problem with my Mac freezing etc. I know computer problems happen on every platform, but I've experienced none thus far. If Voiceover gets cranky, (occasionally happens if I haven't restarted in a few weeks), I just hit command f5 a few times, and it's back to normal. >>> >>> It was a little overwhelming at first learning a new screen reader and a new OS, but I found that once I stuck with it, it all became natural to me. I turned on my roommate's computer the other day, and kept trying to make Jaws work with Voiceover commands. I also installed some software for her, and the process was a lot more arduous on windows than it is for me on my Mac. I plug something in, and it pretty much works with no fussing from me. This has taken a lot of the guess work out of things for me. >>> >>> I hope this has helped. If I think of anything I forgot, I'll repost. If you ever want to see Voiceover in action some time, let me know. I'd be happy to demo it for you. >>> >>> Briley >>> >>> >>> On May 8, 2010, at 12:46 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I keep hearing about all these wonderful things about Macs. I was very >>>> interested in the iPad review on Access World, and my employer's offer to >>>> switch out my PC for a Mac just gets more tempting by the moment. Still, as >>>> I get older I am less tolerant of drastic changes to my office assembly, and >>>> yet, temptations abound. >>>> >>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed in >>>> terms of the screen reader? Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? If you had to >>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I know >>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>> >>>> 2. How has the compatibility changed in terms of Macs and software packages? >>>> I originally hesitated, because it seemed the industry was more prone to be >>>> compatible with PC products. >>>> >>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>> >>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be great >>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm wondering >>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>> >>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I don't >>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>> >>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>> >>>> I know the best thing is to play around with Macs yourself. I intend to do >>>> that when I visit our home office in California in a month, but I'm hoping >>>> those of you who are daily users of the system can give up-to-date >>>> information since reviews can quickly become outdated. And, I'm sure that >>>> even playing with a Mac for an hour or so would not truly give me a sense of >>>> how well they meet my daily task expectations. >>>> >>>> Thanks for any information and/or website recommendations. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>>> database 5096 (20100507) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gymnastdave%40sbcglobal.net From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Mon May 10 20:26:43 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:26:43 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] OT: BookSense XT Raffle In-Reply-To: <8906A89FCBE542A1A6B15B5DB7E2E7A2@YOURZVIRQM73LR> References: <53A9328F586C466CA34556D7FA01DA28@jage> <019001cac781$2016e380$6044aa80$@org> <8906A89FCBE542A1A6B15B5DB7E2E7A2@YOURZVIRQM73LR> Message-ID: <005801caf07f$1ae7eb80$50b7c280$@org> Hi Meghan, So who won the Book Sense raffle? I know that a few of us bought tickets from the list, and I can't the only one wondering. Inquiring minds want to know, smile. Regards, Maryann Migliorelli From mrsmigs at migliorelli.org Mon May 10 20:42:01 2010 From: mrsmigs at migliorelli.org (Maryann Migliorelli) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 14:42:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] volunteer experiences In-Reply-To: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> References: <6E3247AD900C42B492B3A16214D2C3F2@Ashley> Message-ID: <005901caf081$3e160b80$ba422280$@org> Hi Ashley, I passed along one of your previous messages to the jobs list. I hope you don't mind. I would also recommend that you place this one there too. You might consider subscribing to it as well. You could get some great suggestions from posting these great questions on both lists. Respectfully, Maryann Migliorelli From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon May 10 21:04:06 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:04:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The Internet! In-Reply-To: References: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa> <5CE36DE3-AD78-43E1-9B23-7615781A2671@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, I had a dinner engagement last night and was unable to attend the philosophy call. I am currently listening to the archived presentation and I am very impressed. I will also add that I can take absolutely no credit personally for this innovation. Thanks so much to the NABS membership committee and to David for your creativity and willingness to put in the effort to organize the monthly calls, the live streaming, and the call archives. As far as I am aware this has never happened before in NABS and we are building a wealth of audio information for our current and future members. Also, if you have suggestions for topics you would like to see covered on future conference calls, please feel free to tell me, Janice, or Darian. As you can see from past calls, any topic relating to blindness and/or student life is fair game for discussion. I would strongly encourage all of you to participate in or listen to these calls. Arielle On 5/9/10, Darian Smith wrote: > Briley, > Thanks so much! > I have to say that I listened to a bit of it via the stream and I > enjoyed the sound quality as well. > I think much thanks has to go to David for setting up this option > and streaming this for us. Also, much thanks has to go to the > membership committee as a whole for making this happen, everyone who > joined the call and brought some wonderful insight and our guest > speakers for being so giving of their time and knowledge. > Thanks for the feedback and thank you everybody! > These discussions with our peers on more of a personal level, and > the ability to have more people exposed to the great information > that we hear every month is what we hope for when we do this. > > Thanks again, > Darian > > On 5/9/10, Briley Pollard wrote: >> This stream sounds fabulous. I like it much better than using my phone. >> Can >> hear it better. >> >> There is some fantastic conversation going on. Things that aren't usually >> talked about. I wish I could participate from my computer. But this will >> do. >> >> Great job, NABS board. This stuff is really useful. >> >> Briley >> On May 9, 2010, at 8:47 AM, David Dunphy wrote: >> >>> Hi There! >>> Please feel free to pass the following on to anyone you feel would >>> benefit >>> from this message: >>> In the past when we've done our monthly NABS conference calls, you could >>> only listen in using your telephone. And if you couldn't call in or make >>> the conference, you'd lose out on some potentially useful information. >>> But starting tonight, all that changes... >>> Tonight's Philosophy 101 conference call can be heard over the internet! >>> Starting at 8 PM eastern (7 central, 6 mountan, 5 pacific) you can use >>> the >>> following link to tune in to our conference call using your computer: >>> http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html >>> >>> >>> Once on that page, you'll be presented with different options for >>> accessing the call live using your pc's default media player or our >>> special web player! >>> Can't make the call tonight? No problem. >>> Soon after the call completes, a link will be sent to the nabs list and >>> to >>> the nabs twitter account for downloading the call. Now you can still >>> benefit from the information we have to share even if you can't make the >>> live presentation! >>> So don't forget. Use this link to listen in starting at 8 PM eastern: >>> http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html >>> And if you have any problems, send an email to >>> david.dunphy at nabslinkaudio.org >>> Enjoy the call, and to the moms out there, have a happy Mother's Day! >>> Warmest regards, >>> David Dunphy >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From freethaught at gmail.com Tue May 11 00:45:12 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 20:45:12 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Talks versus Mobile Speak References: <608AACA8-8E84-4FF9-85A4-5FFFDC6769C1@mac.com> Message-ID: Catie and others, I use Mobile speak, and am just about to switch to Talks with the KNFB reader phone I will use as a dealer in that camp. I hear that Mobile speak tends to crash a lot, and that may just be that Windows Mobile crashes a lot. I have also heard from my girlfriend that Talks is more stable, and sounds better since it uses the eloquence speech. one should consider Mobile Speak if they are likely to use GPS software. I find Mobile Geo superior to Way Finder Access, and the latter is not being updated and further developed for the time being. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katie Wang" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Talks versus Mobile Speak >I have a similar question. I will be getting my first accessible cell > phone this summer and I'm not sure whether Talks or Mobile Speak is > better as a screen reader. also, I know Mobile Speak is sold through > the National Center for Customers with Disabilities at AT&T, but I'm > not sure how to go about obtaining TALKS. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. Thanks! > Katie > > On 5/6/10, Jorge Paez wrote: >> Hello all. >> I've decided to drop the KNFB reader classic and fine some way to get the >> new KNFB-Reader Mobile. >> My question has 2 parts. >> >> Firstly: which screen reading software is better? Mobile Speak or Talks? >> >> >> Also, when you get your Nokia device, with Talks/Mobile Speak, can you >> still >> use the callendar, notes/wifi function without a plan? >> What things can you not use without a plan? >> >> Thanks. >> >> Jorge >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Tue May 11 00:55:43 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 20:55:43 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Ibis reader Message-ID: <52BEB192558C438E9F1E23BB08E07E71@userf9b4fa60eb> Hello all, I have just learned about a new service that allows one to read books across platforms, including mobile phones. The link came via a FaceBook post by Hai Nguyen, so here it goes. http://www.ibisreader.com/about/ Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone From freethaught at gmail.com Tue May 11 01:16:36 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 21:16:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile References: Message-ID: The quick and short answer to which phone is better is the N-86. Why? The short and sweet answer is that it has a much faster processor, and handles the KNFB software better than the N-82. You will pay a higher price for that, though. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 11:57 AM Subject: [nabs-l] KNFB Reader Mobile > Hi Sean: > > > Thanks for your input--don't worry, I'm looking for the honest user > opinions, specially you guys who know both sides of the coin. I tend to > trust the consumers more then the techies on this, cause sometimes the > geek squads get tied up by all sorts of tech specs which don't matter in > the long run. > > Ok. My next question would again be 2 parts. > > 1. Which phone is better? N82 or N86? > > Secondly: Can you use wifi on these phones? If so, how reliable is it? > > Thanks. > > Jorge > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Tue May 11 01:32:21 2010 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 21:32:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The Internet! In-Reply-To: References: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa>, <5CE36DE3-AD78-43E1-9B23-7615781A2671@gmail.com>, , Message-ID: Yes, I have also listened to the archive of the phone call as well, and I am equally impressed about what was discussed during the call as well as the idea to archive it for future references. I like the idea of the conference calls, but they do not always fit into my schedule. I have noticed a recent thread about volunteering, and I know that many students participate in internship opportunities during the summer. I cannot remember if this topic has already been discussed during one of the conference calls or not, but perhaps this could be a topic for one of the future conference calls. I am planning on working on a congressional campaign this summer, and I am a bit nervous because this will be my first real job experience as a blind person outside the realms of the National Federation of the Blind. I would love the opportunity to hear from those who have experienced a similar situation, and how they dealt with some of their first professional job experiences. Elizabeth > Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 15:04:06 -0600 > From: nabs.president at gmail.com > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The Internet! > > Hi all, > > I had a dinner engagement last night and was unable to attend the > philosophy call. I am currently listening to the archived presentation > and I am very impressed. I will also add that I can take absolutely no > credit personally for this innovation. Thanks so much to the NABS > membership committee and to David for your creativity and willingness > to put in the effort to organize the monthly calls, the live > streaming, and the call archives. As far as I am aware this has never > happened before in NABS and we are building a wealth of audio > information for our current and future members. > > Also, if you have suggestions for topics you would like to see covered > on future conference calls, please feel free to tell me, Janice, or > Darian. As you can see from past calls, any topic relating to > blindness and/or student life is fair game for discussion. I would > strongly encourage all of you to participate in or listen to these > calls. > > Arielle > > On 5/9/10, Darian Smith wrote: > > Briley, > > Thanks so much! > > I have to say that I listened to a bit of it via the stream and I > > enjoyed the sound quality as well. > > I think much thanks has to go to David for setting up this option > > and streaming this for us. Also, much thanks has to go to the > > membership committee as a whole for making this happen, everyone who > > joined the call and brought some wonderful insight and our guest > > speakers for being so giving of their time and knowledge. > > Thanks for the feedback and thank you everybody! > > These discussions with our peers on more of a personal level, and > > the ability to have more people exposed to the great information > > that we hear every month is what we hope for when we do this. > > > > Thanks again, > > Darian > > > > On 5/9/10, Briley Pollard wrote: > >> This stream sounds fabulous. I like it much better than using my phone. > >> Can > >> hear it better. > >> > >> There is some fantastic conversation going on. Things that aren't usually > >> talked about. I wish I could participate from my computer. But this will > >> do. > >> > >> Great job, NABS board. This stuff is really useful. > >> > >> Briley > >> On May 9, 2010, at 8:47 AM, David Dunphy wrote: > >> > >>> Hi There! > >>> Please feel free to pass the following on to anyone you feel would > >>> benefit > >>> from this message: > >>> In the past when we've done our monthly NABS conference calls, you could > >>> only listen in using your telephone. And if you couldn't call in or make > >>> the conference, you'd lose out on some potentially useful information. > >>> But starting tonight, all that changes... > >>> Tonight's Philosophy 101 conference call can be heard over the internet! > >>> Starting at 8 PM eastern (7 central, 6 mountan, 5 pacific) you can use > >>> the > >>> following link to tune in to our conference call using your computer: > >>> http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html > >>> > >>> > >>> Once on that page, you'll be presented with different options for > >>> accessing the call live using your pc's default media player or our > >>> special web player! > >>> Can't make the call tonight? No problem. > >>> Soon after the call completes, a link will be sent to the nabs list and > >>> to > >>> the nabs twitter account for downloading the call. Now you can still > >>> benefit from the information we have to share even if you can't make the > >>> live presentation! > >>> So don't forget. Use this link to listen in starting at 8 PM eastern: > >>> http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/listenlive.html > >>> And if you have any problems, send an email to > >>> david.dunphy at nabslinkaudio.org > >>> Enjoy the call, and to the moms out there, have a happy Mother's Day! > >>> Warmest regards, > >>> David Dunphy > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> nabs-l mailing list > >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >>> nabs-l: > >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > >> nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > Darian Smith > > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > > > > > -- > Arielle Silverman > President, National Association of Blind Students > Phone: 602-502-2255 > Email: > nabs.president at gmail.com > Website: > www.nabslink.org > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 From cnaylor073 at gmail.com Tue May 11 02:38:30 2010 From: cnaylor073 at gmail.com (Christina Mitchell) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 22:38:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Ray McGeorge In-Reply-To: <77A772448BC748DCACE89230B600333B@DianePC> References: <77A772448BC748DCACE89230B600333B@DianePC> Message-ID: Sorry to hear that. I hope he gets better soon. I'll be thinking of him. On 5/10/10, Diane wrote: > > Greetings: > > I have the unfortunate task of informing you that our friend and long-time > leader and colleague in the movement, Ray McGeorge is in the hospital with > meningitis. Yesterday morning, Sunday, Diane was unable to wake Ray up and > they immediately rushed Ray to the hospital. Because he had difficulty > breathing, they placed Ray on a respirator and started pumping him full of > antibiotics. Ray is in the ICU here at Rose Hospital in Denver. They are > keeping him heavily Sedated and on the respirator to make it easier for his > body to fight off the infection. The doctors are very confident that he > will be able to fight this off but it will take a few days of intensive > treatment. Diane tells me that Ray has triggered the respirator himself > several times this morning meaning that he is gaining strength and trying to > take over breathing on his own. For all of us who know Ray, we know that > he has a tremendous positive attitude and that he is incredibly strong. I > am confident also that Ray will come through this with flying colors but > please add your positive thoughts and prayers. I will update you on Ray as > I get more information. Please feel free to forward this post as broadly as > you like. > > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic > Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. > _______________________________________________ > Colorado-talk mailing list > Colorado-talk at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/colorado-talk_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > Colorado-talk: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/colorado-talk_nfbnet.org/dianefilipe%40peoplepc.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnaylor073%40gmail.com > -- Christina, 26 with bilateral facial cleft and total blindness. www.worldcf.org/forums From lizmohnke at hotmail.com Tue May 11 02:38:29 2010 From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 22:38:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Important Survey Announcement for Michigan College Students In-Reply-To: References: <64349B6E0F5A41119862602A93AAC678@radio360usa>, <5CE36DE3-AD78-43E1-9B23-7615781A2671@gmail.com>, , Message-ID: Hello List, The Michigan Association of Blind Students is currently conducting a survey on the quality of services college students are receiving from the Michigan Commission for the Blind. If you are a current college student or have been a college student in the state of Michigan within the past five years, and would like to take part in our survey, please send an email to students.nfbmi at gmail.com. Please include the name of your school in your email to verify that you are a student. We will be accepting completed surveys until Monday, June 7, 2010. The purpose of this survey is to provide the Michigan Commission for the Blind important information as they continue in their quest to form a new college policy. We are also using this survey to create a platform for college students to speak out in opposition to the Michigan Commission for the Blind without the fear of losing services or funding for their college education. The Michigan Commission for the Blind will be holding a special meeting to discuss the adoption of a new college policy on Monday, June 19, 2010, and we want to make sure that the voices of college students are heard during this important meeting. warm Regards, Elizabeth Mohnke Michigan Association of Blind Students _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 From agrima at nbp.org Tue May 11 15:45:37 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:45:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Revised and updated: Google It! A Guide to the World's Most Popular Search Engine Message-ID: Here's a notice about the updated Google reference for blind users. Thanks, Tony Grima National Braille Press Google It! A Guide to the World's Most Popular Search Engine New 2010 Second Edition! By Jonathan Mosen with Anna Dresner Braille edition, 1 volume, $14.00 Who in the world is not using Google these days? But are you using this powerful tool to the max? Did you know you can use Google to track packages, convert currency, find out the latest news, translate text, and that there are Google apps for most mobile phones? If not, order this updated Google tutorial to learn all about these features and more. Mosen's tutorial works regardless of how you access the internet - with Windows, a Mac, or a notetaker. "This book is a quick read, a handy reference, and a powerhouse of information. If there's anything you want to know, just Google it! This book will show you how to do so in ways that will dazzle your friends and associates... With either the hardcopy braille version or the downloadable one on your braille PDA notetaker, you can sit in front of your computer and experiment with each technique that Mosen describes and experience the amazing power firsthand..." - Deborah Kendrick in AccessWorld (review of the first edition) To order online, visit http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/GOOGLE.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 20. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue May 11 19:21:07 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 13:21:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: Greetings Friends: I just returned from Rose Hospital here in Denver where I was able to visit with Diane McGeorge and also able to see Ray very briefly. He is still in the ICU and on the respirator but he has been very stable today. Yesterday afternoon after I had last written, Ray hit a rough patch where many of his vital signs went out of wack including his temperature which exceeded 105 for a couple of hours. They instituted all kinds of treatment yesterday and brought everything under control in the night. Today, he has been showing definite signs of improvement in that he fusses when they try to move him around too much and he has been gripping Diane's hand and not wanting to let it go. He is still very heavily sedated but they are going to reduce those medicines slowly through the day with the hope that they will be able to revive him fully tomorrow. There is great hope that he has passed through the worst of the infection and has rounded the corner. Diane expressed great grattitude for everyone's thoughts and prayers. She wants all of us to keep them coming. From what the doctors have told Diane, it is now the beginning of the time period when they expect the antibiotics to start taking full effect and pushing back the infection. I am very confident and hopeful that Ray will fight through this, but we need to keep sending our prayers and positive thoughts Ray and Diane's way. I will update the lists further when I know more. Please feel free to circulate this broadly so that all of the McGeorge's friends know what is going on. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From catherine.1966 at yahoo.com Tue May 11 23:33:44 2010 From: catherine.1966 at yahoo.com (Catherine Newman) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 16:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <969364.29387.qm@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://www.bmc0.life-health-co.com/b.php From JFreeh at nfb.org Wed May 12 00:20:44 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 19:20:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB President Marc Maurer to Receive Honorary Doctorate from University of Notre Dame Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org NFB President Marc Maurer to Receive Honorary Doctorate from University of Notre Dame Baltimore, Maryland (May 11, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the largest organization of blind people in the United States, today announced that its president, Dr. Marc Maurer, will receive an honorary doctor of laws degree from the University of Notre Dame at the 2010 commencement ceremony on May 16, 2010. Maurer is a 1974 graduate of the University of Notre Dame. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: "I am pleased and privileged to receive an honorary degree from my alma mater. As president of the largest organization of blind people in the United States, I have been fortunate to play a role in many exciting and life-changing developments for blind people in America. While we have made much progress, there is still more to be done. Only 10 percent of blind children are learning Braille in this country, and this directly contributes to a 70 percent unemployment rate among blind people in the United States. I humbly accept this honor on behalf of blind Americans and pledge to work harder than ever to ensure that the blind are not left behind in today's society." Maurer earned his law degree from Indiana University in 1977 and began focusing on representing blind individuals in the courts. A member of the Bar in Indiana, Ohio, Iowa, Maryland, and the Bar of the Supreme Court, Maurer is one of the most experienced lawyers in the field of civil rights and discrimination against the blind. Maurer has been president of the National Federation of the Blind since 1986. In that capacity, he has joined President George W. Bush in the Oval Office in 2001 to celebrate the organization's Everest Expedition, and was present for Bush's signing into law the Help America Vote Act of 2002. He has promoted new technology for the blind, including the knfbReader Mobile (a revolutionary cell phone application that scans and reads aloud most printed material) and the prototype vehicle for the Blind Driver Challenge. He has overseen the visionary expansion of the NFB Jernigan Institute, the first training and research institute for the blind, led by the blind. He has also previously served as president of the North America/Caribbean Region of the World Blind Union. In November 2009, Dr. Maurer was awarded the Rev. John J. Cavanaugh, C.S.C., Award for outstanding contributions in the field of public service from the University of Notre Dame Alumni Association. For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please visit www.nfb.org. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 12 00:29:38 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 19:29:38 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NBP-Announce: General: New revised edition of :Google It! A Guide to the World's Most Popular Search Engine" Message-ID: >From: "Tony Grima" >To: >Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 11:43:13 -0400 >Subject: NBP-Announce: General: New revised edition of :Google It! A >Guide to the World's Most > Popular Search Engine" > >Google It! A Guide to the World's Most Popular Search Engine >New 2010 Second Edition! >By Jonathan Mosen with Anna Dresner >In braille (1 vol.), text or eBraille, $14.00 > >Who in the world is not using Google these days? But are you using this >powerful tool to the max? Did you know you can use Google to track >packages, convert currency, find out the latest news, translate text, >and that there are Google apps for most mobile phones? > >If not, order this updated Google tutorial to learn all about these >features and more. > >Mosen's tutorial works regardless of how you access the internet - with >Windows, a Mac, or a notetaker. > >"This book is a quick read, a handy reference, and a powerhouse of >information. If there's anything you want to know, just Google it! This >book will show you how to do so in ways that will dazzle your friends >and associates... With either the hardcopy braille version or the >downloadable one on your braille PDA notetaker, you can sit in front of >your computer and experiment with each technique that Mosen describes >and experience the amazing power firsthand..." >- Deborah Kendrick in AccessWorld >(review of the first edition) > >To order online, visit >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/GOOGLE.html > > >****** >To order any books, send payment to: >NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 >Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext >20. Or order any of our books online at >http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Nbp mailing list >Nbp at nbp.org > >PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message >and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . > >Visit us at http://www.nbp.org David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Wed May 12 03:36:29 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:36:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight's Conference Call Will Be Streamed Live On The internet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000301caf184$4f9d81e0$eed885a0$@com> Elizabeth, Nice choice to get involved in a Congressional campaign. I have done campaign work in 2006 as a volunteer on the Wisconsin Governor's race and as a paid employee in 2008 on the Presidential campaign out here in Arlington Virginia. I have had a range of experience from basic GOTV and voter ID calling, to volunteer recruitment and training. I have even done my share of door to door canvassing, though that can, at times, present some difficulties. I have always liked the dynamic of political campaigns. You work really hard and spend a lot of time with the same group of people, and the group almost inevitably ends up becoming close. As is the case with virtually any job, it is important to go in with ideas about how your time and particular set of skills can be best put to use. In all of my internship/employment experiences, be it campaign work, my Congressional internship, or anything else I've done, I could tell initially that my colleagues had doubts about how useful I would be or how much I would be able to contribute. Just be proactive and look for places you can be useful. Just because all of the other interns are doing a given task doesn't mean that that is what you have to be doing as well. A quick anecdote to illustrate: One afternoon late in the 08 campaign, my office manager was stressing about cutting turf on the computer for volunteer canvassers who were coming in. She was trying to show all the interns and volunteers how to cut the turf with the mapping program so she could go train a group that was coming in to do calling. Obviously, the mapping software was completely visual and I was of no help completing that task. She said she was sorry, but there was really nothing that I could do until the calling started later. I asked her why she didn't just let me go train the volunteer callers so she, the one who actually knew how to use the mapping software, could prepare the turf for the canvassers. This worked out great, but she never would have thought of it if I hadn't said something. Unfortunately, in many employment or volunteer settings, there will be things that a blind person either cannot do, or cannot do efficiently. Fortunately, there are a whole host of other things at which a blind person can excel. Focus on those, and you will become indispensible. In each job/internship that I have had, I have left knowing that my coworkers respect me and value me as an equal part of the team. If you have any questions, want to chat, or if there is any way in which I might be helpful to you, please feel free to email me directly. Take care, Sean From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 02:40:24 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 22:40:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies Message-ID: Hi All, For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what did you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? Friends at the companies you wanted to work for? Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such as a job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your college? I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to use my writing skills. My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did not elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means and will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party attempting to "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know nothing about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to know me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something may not work out in our relationship. Look forward to your thoughts. Ashley From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Wed May 12 04:56:59 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 00:56:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel Message-ID: Hi All: First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other posts. I really appreciate it! I have another independent travel/cane travel question. Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be guided and when should I be using my cane? Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn and become independent. In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me home, guide me...everything. We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may let her. But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? How do I handle this with my mother? As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it all the time I never learn to use my cane. I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an arm?" I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and use it sparingly! Thanks! Kerri From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Wed May 12 06:04:31 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 02:04:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel Message-ID: <20100512060431.22150.3274@web1> Kerri, The answer to your question is that it's a judgment call on your part. There are times when walking with someone is appropriate and times when it's not. You're also right that going out with your friends is a perfect opportunity to practice your independence. One option you have is to explicitly state what you're trying to accomplish; your statement would actively signal to your friend or family member that you're trying something new. If they've understood you correctly, then they will support your efforts by not getting in your way and they won't be offended by your independence. A word on rebellious independence. I personally think it's good to be a rebel, so knock yourself out. If you need to speak your truth and let folks know that you'd rather do something without assistance, then have at it. The difficulty in rebellious independence is that some folks don't know how to communicate competently and cause needless pain and suffering for all concerned. Just use your manners and you'll be fine. If your sighted companions are still offended, that's not your responsibility. In other words, if someone is offended by your independence, that's not on you so long as you haven't gone out of your way to be a jerk about it. Does that make sense? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi All: > First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other > posts. I really appreciate it! > I have another independent travel/cane travel question. > Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be > guided and when should I be using my cane? > Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I > was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy > folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since > learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely > the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. > I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like > it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother > wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and > battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being > guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very > important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if > I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn > and become independent. > In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in > with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I > really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind > person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would > pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient > it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of > course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the > cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray > they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I > was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When > I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person > because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a > responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. > I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I > have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be > rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience > with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used > to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me > home, guide me...everything. > We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. > I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not > mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may > let her. > But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I > follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? > How do I handle this with my mother? > As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it > all the time I never learn to use my cane. > I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as > "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an > arm?" > I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the > time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me > and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While > I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and > use it sparingly! > Thanks! > Kerri > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed May 12 06:44:27 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 02:44:27 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Kerri, I would first like to say that i'm also totally blind, 22 years old, and working on improving my cane travel skills, so I think we have a lot in common! With regard to your questions, I think you brought up some excellent points. It is definitely important for us to not inconvenient others when hanging out with our sighted peers so that they don't feel like they are taking care of us. For example, I agree with you that we should carry our food and drink in a restaurant and take a cab to the destination if getting a ride with someone is not convenient. However, I personally believe (though some Federationists may disagree with me) that accepting help in some situations is totally fine. For instance, my sighted friends would often offer me rides to get-togethers, but they also make the same offers to other sighted people who don't happen to have cars, and I don't see any problems in accepting and thanking them for the rides. Similarly, while we should definitely be aware of our surroundings at all times, I have found conversations much easier in unfamiliar places if I take my friend's arm. I can still continue to use my cane to locate steps and such, but I would not have to worry about veering off the course or losing track of my friend (which can happen if I just follow with my cane, especially in open spaces or crowded settings). To me, the most important questions is whether i would be able to do things for myself if assistance were not conveniently available. For example, would I be comfortable taking a cab to a dinner party if no one is willing/able to pick me up? Would i be able to go out and enjoy a movie on my own or with other visually impaired friends? As long as the answers to these questions are affirmative, I'm not overly concerned about accepting help when hanging out with my sighted friends; I actually don't think about it very much most of the time and just let things happen naturally. This is just my personal opinion, of course, and I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this. Most importantly, though, I hope you enjoy the outing with your friend! Katie On 5/12/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi All: > > First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other > posts. I really appreciate it! > > I have another independent travel/cane travel question. > > Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be > guided and when should I be using my cane? > > Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I > was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy > folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since > learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely > the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. > > I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like > it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother > wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and > battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being > guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very > important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if > I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn > and become independent. > > In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in > with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I > really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind > person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would > pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient > it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of > course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the > cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray > they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I > was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When > I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person > because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a > responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. > > I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I > have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be > rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience > with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used > to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me > home, guide me...everything. > > We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. > > I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not > mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may > let her. > > But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I > follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? > > How do I handle this with my mother? > > As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it > all the time I never learn to use my cane. > > I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as > "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an > arm?" > > I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the > time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me > and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While > I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and > use it sparingly! > > Thanks! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From brileyp at gmail.com Wed May 12 09:02:59 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 04:02:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Katie, I don't know any federationist, (at least not any I've ever met), who would tell you that accepting help is never ok. Of course there are certain situations where everyone, (sighted or blind), require help in some way. This may be a ride, or a friend when things are hard, or directions to a certain destination. If you never accept any help, that would alienate people. The issue is that you don't want to always rely on others because you have a lack of confidence in yourself due to your blindness. Only you can make the judgment call as to what is appropriate for you and when, as long as you are of the mindset that you are a capable woman with a lot to contribute. Asserting your independence is important to your growth both as a blind person and as an adult, but doing so with dignity is also important. Having the grace to accept help when necessary is also a form of independence. Briley On May 12, 2010, at 1:44 AM, Katie Wang wrote: > Hi, Kerri, > I would first like to say that i'm also totally blind, 22 years old, > and working on improving my cane travel skills, so I think we have a > lot in common! > With regard to your questions, I think you brought up some excellent > points. It is definitely important for us to not inconvenient others > when hanging out with our sighted peers so that they don't feel like > they are taking care of us. For example, I agree with you that we > should carry our food and drink in a restaurant and take a cab to the > destination if getting a ride with someone is not convenient. However, > I personally believe (though some Federationists may disagree with me) > that accepting help in some situations is totally fine. For instance, > my sighted friends would often offer me rides to get-togethers, but > they also make the same offers to other sighted people who don't > happen to have cars, and I don't see any problems in accepting and > thanking them for the rides. Similarly, while we should definitely be > aware of our surroundings at all times, I have found conversations > much easier in unfamiliar places if I take my friend's arm. I can > still continue to use my cane to locate steps and such, but I would > not have to worry about veering off the course or losing track of my > friend (which can happen if I just follow with my cane, especially in > open spaces or crowded settings). > To me, the most important questions is whether i would be able to do > things for myself if assistance were not conveniently available. For > example, would I be comfortable taking a cab to a dinner party if no > one is willing/able to pick me up? Would i be able to go out and enjoy > a movie on my own or with other visually impaired friends? As long as > the answers to these questions are affirmative, I'm not overly > concerned about accepting help when hanging out with my sighted > friends; I actually don't think about it very much most of the time > and just let things happen naturally. > This is just my personal opinion, of course, and I'm curious to hear > others' thoughts on this. Most importantly, though, I hope you enjoy > the outing with your friend! > Katie > > On 5/12/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: >> Hi All: >> >> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >> posts. I really appreciate it! >> >> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >> >> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >> guided and when should I be using my cane? >> >> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >> >> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >> and become independent. >> >> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >> >> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >> home, guide me...everything. >> >> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >> >> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >> let her. >> >> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >> >> How do I handle this with my mother? >> >> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >> >> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >> arm?" >> >> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >> use it sparingly! >> >> Thanks! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed May 12 13:46:55 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 08:46:55 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Ashley those are some good questions. I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place to work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my state license. I am looking to stay in my ariea. So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies Hi All, For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what did you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? Friends at the companies you wanted to work for? Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such as a job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your college? I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to use my writing skills. My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did not elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means and will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party attempting to "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know nothing about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to know me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something may not work out in our relationship. Look forward to your thoughts. Ashley _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 13:40:00 From kc2992a at student.american.edu Wed May 12 13:12:01 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 09:12:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies In-Reply-To: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: Hi all, I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am starting a paid internship soon. Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, if you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job site. Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for example. I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't heard anything back from them. I find this very surprising. And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues can be the best resource of all. Best of luck, Kate On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: > Ashley those are some good questions. > I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place to > work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my state > license. > I am looking to stay in my ariea. > So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? > Rania, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > Hi All, > > For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what did > you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? Friends > at the companies you wanted to work for? > Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such as > a > job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your > college? > > I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to > use my writing skills. > > My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did not > elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means > and > will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party attempting > to > "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know nothing > about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to know > me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something > may > not work out in our relationship. > > Look forward to your thoughts. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 > 13:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed May 12 14:51:06 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 09:51:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies In-Reply-To: References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: <8D78BF294FB24C36B68308CF9C96675C@RainaIsmailPC> There is an email list that goes out when ever there is a job opening. I am on that list but for some reason I am not receiving the email. I hope my email address is not blocking it. I asked if my email address is on there correctly and I am told it is. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katy Carroll Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 8:12 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies Hi all, I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am starting a paid internship soon. Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, if you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job site. Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for example. I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't heard anything back from them. I find this very surprising. And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues can be the best resource of all. Best of luck, Kate On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: > Ashley those are some good questions. > I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a > place to work so I at least have something in place while I wait to > receive my state license. > I am looking to stay in my ariea. > So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? > Rania, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > Hi All, > > For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, > what did you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet > site? Friends at the companies you wanted to work for? > Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with > such as a job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR > or your college? > > I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position > to use my writing skills. > > My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but > did not elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what > this means and will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a > third party attempting to "sell" me to an employer or place me > somewhere- a place I may know nothing about may not work to my > advantage because the employer may not get to know me and if I get a > job then they may not like my personality or something may not work > out in our relationship. > > Look forward to your thoughts. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04% > 40gmai > l.com ail04%40gmai%0Al.com> No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: > 05/11/10 13:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40stud > ent.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 13:40:00 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 14:59:00 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:59:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: Rania, Since you're still in school you have those resources. Use your career center if you have one. You have to know what kind of job you want; I guess its not massage related since you don't have your license. Ask other students and your professors about vacancies. I am guessing you want something tempoary since after you get your license you'll do something else permanent. Maybe a temp agency could help you. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania " To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > Ashley those are some good questions. > I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place > to > work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my > state > license. > I am looking to stay in my ariea. > So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? > Rania, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > Hi All, > > For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what > did > you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? > Friends > at the companies you wanted to work for? > Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such as > a > job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your > college? > > I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to > use my writing skills. > > My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did > not > elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means > and > will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party attempting > to > "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know nothing > about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to > know > me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something > may > not work out in our relationship. > > Look forward to your thoughts. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 > 13:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 12 15:09:23 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:09:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78023516A3AA4202B57B1BCF818B20A2@Rufus> Hi Kerri, Remember one thing anytime you head out, whether it be the mall or any other place. It's rather basic, but it's so basic that many of us forget it. We are our own worse critic. In other words, I think we sometimes have the tendency to over analyze what we're doing and spend not enough time actually enjoying what we're doing. >From your posts I gather you are not an unpleasant person. You seem friendly and thoughtful. I somehow doubt you would be one pegged to rudely tell someone that you are "Miss Independent and please back off now or else." You're clearly socially conscious, otherwise you would not have these questions, so just use these natural attributes and make the best of the situation. Though I am not suggesting that you pretend to be what you are not, I think it important for us to sometimes think about how we would act if we were fully sighted. Blindness only becomes a concrete social hindrance when you allow it to be. Remember the rest of the public is mostly curious about what we do and how we do it. Many people have not had the opportunity to interact with a blind person, and you could choose to be overly concerned about how they might perceive you, or you could take a deep breath, say "screw it" and just be yourself. Some blind people are idiots and get a stick up their butt when someone dares challenge their independence, as if they have something to prove to the world. How many times have you seen sighted people get their feathers all in a bunch when they offer each other help? Remember, you're a typical young adult first, and blind second. Which one the public hones in on is completely within your control. In terms of your outing, use a cane when you're completely confident. Grab an arm when you are not. But, learn how to distinguish between grabbing an arm is a necessity and grabbing an arm out of fear. If it is fear, figure out what it is you're afraid of. If you're afraid of tripping, you'll fall, make an ass out of yourself, but life will go on, right? Next time you'll learn how to properly sweep the cane in front of you to avoid the same mistake. Besides, it's not as if sighted people don't ever trip. If you're afraid of getting lost, chances are pretty good you'll learn something about your surroundings you did not previously know before. I could write you a long list of my most embarrassing moments, NFB or not. Yet I could also write an equally long list of things each experience taught me. Ultimately, turn the magnifier away from yourself. You can use this list as a learning resource to get all your questions answered, but in the moment, when you're out and about, remember to relax. People really will accept you for who you are, and all the little awkward incidents that could happen will be reduced to minor afterthoughts because you will have designed a good communication channel based on your personality not your disability. The family is a slightly different animal. I'll try to address that point later when I have a little more time if someone hasn't already covered it. Enjoy your dinner and movie! Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5108 (20100512) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Wed May 12 15:24:06 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:24:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Socializing skills and asking favors Message-ID: <00c701caf1e7$2c9f7eb0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: Great topic on cane and independence! Really hit home because I'm in the process of also trying to get more independent in going out with friends and the like since I'm getting tired of staying home all day and depending on people to take me here and there! So my questions are: 1.-Suppose I hear my cousins or friends say they're going to a movie or out to eat. How can I ask if I can go or should I wait for them to invite me if I want to go? Surely they won't because I feel they're afraid of not knowing how to cope with a blind person because in order for me to get schooling and such we had to leave my native town and now my cousins are afraid and don't know how to cope with me or already have their own group made up and are afraid to have me join. 2.-I already have figured out that while guiding me around I'll use the cane in one hand and sighted guide in the other so there's no problem there. 3.-While in the movie (unfortunately here in Mexico there's still no such thing as DVS in theaters as you guys) is it all right to ask my cousin or friend next to me to when they're no dialogues to tell me what's happening in the film or should I try and figure it out? Because if they tell me I will be more able to discuss the film like the sighted people because I don't feel as part of the group while I hear comments on the film while I'm not able to join in them in due form since probably I wasn't able to get all out of the film. All my questions for now but surely more will pop up as the days and weeks go by. Gerardo From missheather at comcast.net Wed May 12 15:32:19 2010 From: missheather at comcast.net (H. Field) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:32:19 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Windows 7 "compatibility Checker' Is a Trojan Message-ID: For your information ----- Original Message ----- From: "Accessible Devices" To: "Accessible Devices List" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Accessible Devices Windows 7 "compatibility Checker' Is a Trojan Scammers are infecting computers with a Trojan horse program disguised as software that determines whether PCs are compatible with Windows 7. The attack was first spotted by BitDefender on Sunday and is not yet widespread; the antivirus vendor is receiving reports of about three installs per hour from its users in the U.S. But because the scam is novel, it could end up infecting a lot of people, according to Catalin Cosoi, the head of BitDefender's Online Threats Lab. "This actually works because of the interest in Windows 7," he said. The scammers steal their marketing text directly from Microsoft, which offers a legitimate in its Web site. "Find out if your PC can run Windows 7," the e-mails read, echoing Microsoft's Web page. "This software scans your PC for potential issues with your hardware, devices, and installed programs, and recommends what to do before you upgrade." Users who try to install the attached, zipped file end up with a back-door Trojan horse program on their computer. BitDefender identifies the program as Trojan.Generic.3783603, the same one that's being used in a campaign. Once a victim has installed the software, criminals can pretty much do whatever they want on the PC, Cosoi said. That could mean installing a keylogger to steal banking credentials or even gaining full access to the hacked system. Cosoi guesses that a few thousand people have been infected by the Trojan to date, but that number will probably grow rapidly as more victims are taken in by the latest scam. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: This is an Announce only list. Subscribers are not able to post to this list. To unsubscribe from the Accessible Devices list copy the line below. 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Please Note: Accessible Devices is not able to provide tech support for software or products that we supply information about. _______________________________________________ A-d mailing list A-d at accessible-devices.com http://accessible-devices.com/mailman/listinfo/a-d_accessible-devices.com From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 15:33:59 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:33:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel References: Message-ID: <4A98797935354A3390A3D264F5FB2913@Ashley> Carrie, I am still in my 20's and struggle with this question. When I was your age I was in the middle of college and just starting to make sighted friends who seemed comfortable with me. I have tunnel vision, so if I'm going anywhere alone I need my cane. I don't think your problems fitting in with sighted people was just due to your travel skills. It was likely other factors such as personality, lack of common interests, and perhaps dress. In public school I found students were very kliqely. If you did not have interests and dress like the klique, you were not in this close group, the klique. Students were often in their own world and would not accept someone different. Did you go to a diverse city school? Well I did, with thousands of students. I'm sure others observed this too. The Asian students hung together; the Latinos hung together; the choir group was together; the football group was together. Why is that? Well because they have something in common such as language, culture or interest. I'm sure everyone has observed this in large institutions such as school. So yes your independence was a factor but don't think it was the only factor. I also was guided by my mother or family the majority of the time, but not in school of course. If you have been completely blind, surely you recieved some O and M service through school. I know I did, but it was not enough. But it showed me the basics to get started. I only saw the O and M teacher a few times a month, so of course we could not cover too much. Now as to the situation with your friend, do have fun anbe friendly. Its a judgement call on your end. I think accepting assistance in some situations is totally appropriate. So if its convenient for your friend to pick you up, you can accept it; she would probably do the same for other friends without cars. I agree with Katie that taking a person's arm in unfamiliar places makes it easier to have conversations. I think sighted guide is fine in restaurants and movie theaters. This is because restaurants can be noisy with narrow spaces between tables. You will make a scene if your friend has to tell you directions and talk to you to get to your table. Next in the movie theater that is a quiet place and I'm sure you and your friend wish to sit together. So just take her arm and she can lead you to a seat. Other open places with friends or family it may be more appropriate to follow them and use your cane. This may be a mall or park or some other trip like going to a museum. But some places either due to noise or the quietness it just sounds better to me to go sighted guide so you don't disrupt activity. I assume you live at home still. If so that's difficult to create independent opportunities. If your mom is like mine she is protective and does not have confidence in my abilities. I know I don't have a good sense of direction, but practice will help things. Maybe plan an outing alone such as to the mall. You said in another post you were going to a mall and bar. That is a good opportunity. Go to a mall or maybe a strip shopping center. Have a goal to find so many stores. If there is a special occasion in your family such as a birthday or anniversary do some research where you can find a particular gift or card. You can either do this online or by calling stores to find out what they sell. Then plan an independent trip to those stores and buy a present. Your family member will be impressed when you present it to them. as for your mom, I have the same problem and wish I had a better solution. All I can think of is to talk to her. Be nice but say now that you got a new cane and you are getting older you would like to walk independently. Tell her you'll get better with practice. HTH, Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > Hi All: > > First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other > posts. I really appreciate it! > > I have another independent travel/cane travel question. > > Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be > guided and when should I be using my cane? > > Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I > was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy > folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since > learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely > the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. > > I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like > it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother > wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and > battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being > guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very > important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if > I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn > and become independent. > > In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in > with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I > really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind > person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would > pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient > it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of > course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the > cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray > they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I > was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When > I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person > because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a > responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. > > I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I > have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be > rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience > with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used > to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me > home, guide me...everything. > > We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. > > I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not > mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may > let her. > > But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I > follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? > > How do I handle this with my mother? > > As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it > all the time I never learn to use my cane. > > I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as > "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an > arm?" > > I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the > time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me > and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While > I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and > use it sparingly! > > Thanks! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed May 12 16:35:44 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:35:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies In-Reply-To: References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: <09FE8BBF6CA8469193746D63248E83EB@RainaIsmailPC> Ashley I will be looking for a job as a massage therapist so I can start working while I am waiting for my license. I have to find places near me that will hyer me if they are hyering. My school doesn't have a career center. I wish they did! Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:59 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies Rania, Since you're still in school you have those resources. Use your career center if you have one. You have to know what kind of job you want; I guess its not massage related since you don't have your license. Ask other students and your professors about vacancies. I am guessing you want something tempoary since after you get your license you'll do something else permanent. Maybe a temp agency could help you. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania " To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > Ashley those are some good questions. > I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place > to > work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my > state > license. > I am looking to stay in my ariea. > So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? > Rania, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > Hi All, > > For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what > did > you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? > Friends > at the companies you wanted to work for? > Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such as > a > job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your > college? > > I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to > use my writing skills. > > My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did > not > elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means > and > will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party attempting > to > "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know nothing > about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to > know > me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something > may > not work out in our relationship. > > Look forward to your thoughts. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 > 13:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2869 - Release Date: 05/12/10 01:26:00 From gera1027 at gmail.com Wed May 12 15:35:59 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:35:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 Message-ID: <00cb01caf1e8$d3d5a0a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Hi guys: More questions: 1.-I unfortunately don't know how to cut food or meat. is it fine to ask whoever is next to me to do the favor without letting them feel like I'm more burden then a regular person? 2.-Regarding rides and the like is it my initiative to ask for it or should my friends offer them when they know I'm blind and don't have a car? For now all but surely more in the days to come. Gerardo From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 15:39:40 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:39:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: Katie! Where did you go to school? I am also in that area; I graduated from Marymount in Arlington. I have checked with older friends but they have no leads and some companies such as verizon are downsizing due to the recession. Still friends are good resources; networking is important. The problem I see is that there are few entry level jobs; most jobs are higher level requiring five years experience typically. I do check dcjobs.com but there as with many job ad sites many jobs are supervisory level. I'll still check though. You are very fortunate to have a paid internship. Many internships are unpaid. Where are you working? Who supplied accomodations? Good luck! Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > Hi all, > > I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am > starting a paid internship soon. > > Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job > database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, > if > you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job site. > Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for example. > I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't > heard > anything back from them. I find this very surprising. > And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues can > be the best resource of all. > > Best of luck, > Kate > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: > >> Ashley those are some good questions. >> I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place >> to >> work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my >> state >> license. >> I am looking to stay in my ariea. >> So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? >> Rania, >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies >> >> Hi All, >> >> For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what >> did >> you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? >> Friends >> at the companies you wanted to work for? >> Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such >> as >> a >> job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your >> college? >> >> I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to >> use my writing skills. >> >> My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did >> not >> elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means >> and >> will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party attempting >> to >> "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know >> nothing >> about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to >> know >> me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something >> may >> not work out in our relationship. >> >> Look forward to your thoughts. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai >> l.com >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 >> 13:40:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu >> > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 15:40:49 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:40:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> <8D78BF294FB24C36B68308CF9C96675C@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: Rania, if your email has a spam folder, check there. Perhaps these list emails are filtered as spam. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania " To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > There is an email list that goes out when ever there is a job opening. > I am on that list but for some reason I am not receiving the email. > I hope my email address is not blocking it. > I asked if my email address is on there correctly and I am told it is. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Katy Carroll > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 8:12 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > Hi all, > > I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am > starting a paid internship soon. > > Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job > database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, > if > you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job site. > Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for example. > I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't > heard > anything back from them. I find this very surprising. > And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues can > be the best resource of all. > > Best of luck, > Kate > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: > >> Ashley those are some good questions. >> I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a >> place to work so I at least have something in place while I wait to >> receive my state license. >> I am looking to stay in my ariea. >> So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? >> Rania, >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies >> >> Hi All, >> >> For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, >> what did you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet >> site? Friends at the companies you wanted to work for? >> Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with >> such as a job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR >> or your college? >> >> I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position >> to use my writing skills. >> >> My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but >> did not elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what >> this means and will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a >> third party attempting to "sell" me to an employer or place me >> somewhere- a place I may know nothing about may not work to my >> advantage because the employer may not get to know me and if I get a >> job then they may not like my personality or something may not work >> out in our relationship. >> >> Look forward to your thoughts. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04% >> 40gmai >> l.com> ail04%40gmai%0Al.com> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: >> 05/11/10 13:40:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40stud >> ent.american.edu >> > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 > 13:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed May 12 16:08:29 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 12:08:29 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies References: Message-ID: <8BC258074BFE42FAB5D7882FC59BF376@Serene> Connections are very important. Often, it's not just about what you know ... it's abotu who you know. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:40 PM Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies > Hi All, > > For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what > did you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? > Friends at the companies you wanted to work for? > Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such as > a job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your > college? > I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position to > use my writing skills. > > My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did > not elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this > means and will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party > attempting to "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I > may know nothing about may not work to my advantage because the employer > may not get to know me and if I get a job then they may not like my > personality or something may not work out in our relationship. > > Look forward to your thoughts. > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From serenacucco at verizon.net Wed May 12 16:40:56 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 12:40:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel References: Message-ID: <0C61EDD71425471EAB11570C5794BCBA@Serene> Of course, you don't want to be a burden to yoru new acquaintance. Using sighted guide in the restaurant and the movies, however, would be a good idea. Although it may seem like a burden to have your friend guide you, having her verbally direct you could seem like more of a burden to her, since she doesn't know how to do that yet. Also, assuming you're not trying to learn the layout of the restaurant or the movie theater, socializing with your friend is more important. Unless you're a spacial geneous, you won't really learn much about the layout if your friend verbally directs you. Let's face it ... restaurants are crowded places! It isn't always as easy to follow your friend in a crowded place as walking on the street. As long as you're the person making the decision to use sighted guide, not your friend making you use it, then it's fine for you to use it in the restaurant and the movies. Use your cane when you're using sighted guide! Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > Hi All: > > First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other > posts. I really appreciate it! > > I have another independent travel/cane travel question. > > Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be > guided and when should I be using my cane? > > Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I > was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy > folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since > learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely > the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. > > I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like > it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother > wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and > battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being > guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very > important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if > I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn > and become independent. > > In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in > with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I > really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind > person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would > pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient > it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of > course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the > cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray > they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I > was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When > I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person > because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a > responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. > > I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I > have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be > rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience > with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used > to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me > home, guide me...everything. > > We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. > > I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not > mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may > let her. > > But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I > follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? > > How do I handle this with my mother? > > As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it > all the time I never learn to use my cane. > > I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as > "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an > arm?" > > I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the > time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me > and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While > I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and > use it sparingly! > > Thanks! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 17:05:31 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:05:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 References: <00cb01caf1e8$d3d5a0a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <8E329AA7F933431AADE033AC6F0A4064@Ashley> Gerardo, Just like with Carrie's question, you need to decide based on the situation and balance independence with help. 1. If you cannot cut food and you have no other disability you should take time to learn. Ask a friend to show you. Is there someone you trust in your nfb chapter that can show you privately and not gossip? I could not do this for years. Finally a rehab teacher came to my home and one thing she showed me was cutting food. Would it be possible to get a teacher from the department for the blind to help you do such tasks? Also you may consider a center if your skills overall need improvement. For now just ask someone to cut your food up that's next to you. Did you go away to college? I wonder how you managed without someone there to cut your food? 2. Regarding rides, yes do ask if you need it. Your friends don't know your needs; they may not automatically ask; in other cultures that might be more the case but not here. Some close friends may offer you a ride though. If you do ask for rides offer something in return such as a meal or paying for gas. Also have alternative modes of transit so your friends don't always have to pick you up. What is the public transit like? Unfortunately in many areas of America it has a lot to be desired. Is there a door to door service for people with disabilities? Here its called metro access. For short distances cabs are an option too. I think getting help is alright but you need a way to do it more independently because the same people will not always be there to help you. For now I get a lot of rides from family because I'm at home. When I have a job I can afford to move out on my own. But I also have the door to door paratransit service, metro access. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "BlindStudents" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:35 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 > Hi guys: More questions: > 1.-I unfortunately don't know how to cut food or meat. is it fine to ask > whoever is next to me to do the favor without letting them feel like I'm > more burden then a regular person? > 2.-Regarding rides and the like is it my initiative to ask for it or > should > my friends offer them when they know I'm blind and don't have a car? For > now > all but surely more in the days to come. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From clinton.waterbury at gmail.com Wed May 12 17:06:01 2010 From: clinton.waterbury at gmail.com (clinton waterbury) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:06:01 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 In-Reply-To: <00cb01caf1e8$d3d5a0a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> References: <00cb01caf1e8$d3d5a0a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: The answer to both of those questions is no. You should learn how to cut your food. There are a number of strategies to use. You can go to a training center to learn those skills. With rides, you might want to take control of the situation and ask for the rides if you want them, but other than that, if you can, you should use cane travel. I am not trying to be rude about it, but trying to let you and others in your position know that you can do things such as this on your own. On May 12, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > Hi guys: More questions: > 1.-I unfortunately don't know how to cut food or meat. is it fine to ask > whoever is next to me to do the favor without letting them feel like I'm > more burden then a regular person? > 2.-Regarding rides and the like is it my initiative to ask for it or should > my friends offer them when they know I'm blind and don't have a car? For now > all but surely more in the days to come. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Wed May 12 17:22:44 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:22:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: <4A98797935354A3390A3D264F5FB2913@Ashley> References: <4A98797935354A3390A3D264F5FB2913@Ashley> Message-ID: Hey All: Thanks for the posts again and the support! I think I will just take all of your advice and use my judgment. I think I'll nice tell my friend that if she doesn't mind I would like to try to use my cane and walk beside her and she can give me directions but that if she feels uncomfortable at any time or the restaurant is really noisy and following her does create more of a scene than necessary I'll take her arm. Same for the movie theater...if she is cool with me walking beside her with my cane while she gives me directions and she is comfortable and things go smoothly and it's not causing a huge scene or she isn't say shouting loudly in order for me to hear her directions/follow her than I'll take an arm. I think you are right...it's a judgment call but now it seems simple to me...use the cane when it is comfortable and the process is unobtrusive and does not cause a scene but if I'm in a huge hurry or there is too much noise than grab an arm! I am going to try doing some independent travel this weekend to a couple of places to practice more of my cane travel. Thanks again! Kerri Kerri On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Carrie, > > I am still in my 20's and struggle with this question. When I was your age > I was in the middle of college and just starting to make sighted friends who > seemed comfortable with me. I have tunnel vision, so if I'm going anywhere > alone I need my cane. > > I don't think your problems fitting in with sighted people was just due to > your travel skills. It was likely other factors such as personality, lack > of common interests, and perhaps dress. In public school I found students > were very kliqely. If you did not have interests and dress like the klique, > you were not in this close group, the klique. Students were often in their > own world and would not accept someone different. Did you go to a diverse > city school? Well I did, with thousands of students. I'm sure others > observed this too. The Asian students hung together; the Latinos hung > together; the choir group was together; the football group was together. > Why is that? Well because they have something in common such as language, > culture or interest. I'm sure everyone has observed this in large > institutions such as school. > So yes your independence was a factor but don't think it was the only > factor. I also was guided by my mother or family the majority of the time, > but not in school of course. > > If you have been completely blind, surely you recieved some O and M service > through school. I know I did, but it was not enough. But it showed me the > basics to get started. I only saw the O and M teacher a few times a month, > so of course we could not cover too much. > > Now as to the situation with your friend, do have fun anbe friendly. Its a > judgement call on your end. I think accepting assistance in some > situations is totally appropriate. So if its convenient for your friend to > pick you up, you can accept it; she would probably do the same for other > friends without cars. I agree with Katie that taking a person's arm in > unfamiliar places makes it > easier to have conversations. > I think sighted guide is fine in restaurants and movie theaters. This is > because restaurants can be noisy with narrow spaces between tables. You > will make a scene if your friend has to tell you directions and talk to you > to get to your table. Next in the movie theater that is a quiet place and > I'm sure you and your friend wish to sit together. So just take her arm and > she can lead you to a seat. > > Other open places with friends or family it may be more appropriate to > follow them and use your cane. This may be a mall or park or some other > trip like going to a museum. But some places either due to noise or the > quietness it just sounds better to me to go sighted guide so you don't > disrupt activity. > > I assume you live at home still. If so that's difficult to create > independent opportunities. If your mom is like mine she is protective and > does not have confidence in my abilities. I know I don't have a good sense > of direction, but practice will help things. Maybe plan an outing alone > such as to the mall. You said in another post you were going to a mall and > bar. > That is a good opportunity. Go to a mall or maybe a strip shopping center. > Have a goal to find so many stores. > If there is a special occasion in your family such as a birthday or > anniversary do some research where you can find a particular gift or card. > You can either do this online or by calling stores to find out what they > sell. Then plan an independent trip to those stores and buy a present. > Your family member will be impressed when you present it to them. > > as for your mom, I have the same problem and wish I had a better solution. > All I can think of is to talk to her. Be nice but say now that you got a > new cane and you are getting older you would like to walk independently. > Tell her you'll get better with practice. > > HTH, > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > > >> Hi All: >> >> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >> posts. I really appreciate it! >> >> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >> >> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >> guided and when should I be using my cane? >> >> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >> >> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >> and become independent. >> >> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >> >> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >> home, guide me...everything. >> >> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >> >> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >> let her. >> >> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >> >> How do I handle this with my mother? >> >> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >> >> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >> arm?" >> >> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >> use it sparingly! >> >> Thanks! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed May 12 18:13:57 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 11:13:57 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: <78023516A3AA4202B57B1BCF818B20A2@Rufus> References: <78023516A3AA4202B57B1BCF818B20A2@Rufus> Message-ID: Kerri, first, thank you so much for asking the questions you have! I think it's not always easy to ask questions in front of your peers because it's not always easy to admit what you may not know. Not knowing something is healthy and it is even healthier to seek the answers to those things you want to/need to know about. I think that we all are kind of still figuring out what/where our level of independence is and learning about when to improve it in certain situations. I honestly have taken it as a process and most times I'm going to grab my trey and walk with my friend to find my seat and have my meal or will meet my friend at the movies or the ballpark because that's how I like to handle situations. There are times when my friend grabs my food before I get the chance to react or maybe they insist on picking me up. I have learned to let some of that go and not get too worked up over it. I would say challange yourself within what feels right for you- if your friend wants to pick you up and you feel like you can get there just fine and maybe you want the fresh air; then no problem with walking or taking the bus if you just want that time to do it. If you just feel like the travel is a bit much and you like the company of the friend then having them pick you up may not be a bad thing either. I would just say that you are undertaking a process that we are either going through, have gone through, and will go through. We all have good ideas and you have good thoughts and questions. Thank you for your thoughtfulness during this process of understanding what it means to be blind on a personal level. respectfully, Darian On 5/12/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > Hi Kerri, > > Remember one thing anytime you head out, whether it be the mall or any other > place. It's rather basic, but it's so basic that many of us forget it. We > are our own worse critic. > > In other words, I think we sometimes have the tendency to over analyze what > we're doing and spend not enough time actually enjoying what we're doing. > > >From your posts I gather you are not an unpleasant person. You seem > friendly and thoughtful. I somehow doubt you would be one pegged to rudely > tell someone that you are "Miss Independent and please back off now or > else." You're clearly socially conscious, otherwise you would not have > these questions, so just use these natural attributes and make the best of > the situation. Though I am not suggesting that you pretend to be what you > are not, I think it important for us to sometimes think about how we would > act if we were fully sighted. Blindness only becomes a concrete social > hindrance when you allow it to be. Remember the rest of the public is > mostly curious about what we do and how we do it. Many people have not had > the opportunity to interact with a blind person, and you could choose to be > overly concerned about how they might perceive you, or you could take a deep > breath, say "screw it" and just be yourself. Some blind people are idiots > and get a stick up their butt when someone dares challenge their > independence, as if they have something to prove to the world. How many > times have you seen sighted people get their feathers all in a bunch when > they offer each other help? > > Remember, you're a typical young adult first, and blind second. Which one > the public hones in on is completely within your control. > > In terms of your outing, use a cane when you're completely confident. Grab > an arm when you are not. But, learn how to distinguish between grabbing an > arm is a necessity and grabbing an arm out of fear. If it is fear, figure > out what it is you're afraid of. If you're afraid of tripping, you'll fall, > make an ass out of yourself, but life will go on, right? Next time you'll > learn how to properly sweep the cane in front of you to avoid the same > mistake. Besides, it's not as if sighted people don't ever trip. If you're > afraid of getting lost, chances are pretty good you'll learn something about > your surroundings you did not previously know before. I could write you a > long list of my most embarrassing moments, NFB or not. Yet I could also > write an equally long list of things each experience taught me. > > Ultimately, turn the magnifier away from yourself. You can use this list as > a learning resource to get all your questions answered, but in the moment, > when you're out and about, remember to relax. People really will accept you > for who you are, and all the little awkward incidents that could happen will > be reduced to minor afterthoughts because you will have designed a good > communication channel based on your personality not your disability. > > The family is a slightly different animal. I'll try to address that point > later when I have a little more time if someone hasn't already covered it. > Enjoy your dinner and movie! > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5108 (20100512) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Wed May 12 19:16:12 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:16:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies In-Reply-To: References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC><8D78BF294FB24C36B68308CF9C96675C@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: <60E6956A1D8F4A7D8F35AD4E0E498659@RainaIsmailPC> Thank you I will check in to it. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:41 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies Rania, if your email has a spam folder, check there. Perhaps these list emails are filtered as spam. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rania " To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > There is an email list that goes out when ever there is a job opening. > I am on that list but for some reason I am not receiving the email. > I hope my email address is not blocking it. > I asked if my email address is on there correctly and I am told it is. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Katy Carroll > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 8:12 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > Hi all, > > I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am > starting a paid internship soon. > > Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job > database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, > if > you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job site. > Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for example. > I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't > heard > anything back from them. I find this very surprising. > And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues can > be the best resource of all. > > Best of luck, > Kate > > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: > >> Ashley those are some good questions. >> I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a >> place to work so I at least have something in place while I wait to >> receive my state license. >> I am looking to stay in my ariea. >> So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? >> Rania, >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net >> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies >> >> Hi All, >> >> For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, >> what did you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet >> site? Friends at the companies you wanted to work for? >> Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with >> such as a job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR >> or your college? >> >> I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position >> to use my writing skills. >> >> My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but >> did not elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what >> this means and will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a >> third party attempting to "sell" me to an employer or place me >> somewhere- a place I may know nothing about may not work to my >> advantage because the employer may not get to know me and if I get a >> job then they may not like my personality or something may not work >> out in our relationship. >> >> Look forward to your thoughts. >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04% >> 40gmai >> l.com> ail04%40gmai%0Al.com> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: >> 05/11/10 13:40:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40stud >> ent.american.edu >> > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 > 13:40:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2869 - Release Date: 05/12/10 01:26:00 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 18:40:24 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:40:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel References: <0C61EDD71425471EAB11570C5794BCBA@Serene> Message-ID: <68C2AF5E14B94C60B942A992458E33BC@Ashley> Serena, Well said. I would use sighted guide for the same reasons. Restaurants are crowded and noisy and its more burden on a friend to verbally direct you in a narrow likely noisy place. I support independence and practicing cane skills but there is a time and place for that. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serena" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > Of course, you don't want to be a burden to yoru new acquaintance. Using > sighted guide in the restaurant and the movies, however, would be a good > idea. Although it may seem like a burden to have your friend guide you, > having her verbally direct you could seem like more of a burden to her, > since she doesn't know how to do that yet. Also, assuming you're not > trying to learn the layout of the restaurant or the movie theater, > socializing with your friend is more important. Unless you're a spacial > geneous, you won't really learn much about the layout if your friend > verbally directs you. Let's face it ... restaurants are crowded places! > It isn't always as easy to follow your friend in a crowded place as > walking on the street. As long as you're the person making the decision > to use sighted guide, not your friend making you use it, then it's fine > for you to use it in the restaurant and the movies. Use your cane when > you're using sighted guide! > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > > >> Hi All: >> >> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >> posts. I really appreciate it! >> >> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >> >> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >> guided and when should I be using my cane? >> >> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >> >> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >> and become independent. >> >> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >> >> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >> home, guide me...everything. >> >> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >> >> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >> let her. >> >> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >> >> How do I handle this with my mother? >> >> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >> >> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >> arm?" >> >> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >> use it sparingly! >> >> Thanks! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Wed May 12 18:42:28 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:42:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 In-Reply-To: References: <00cb01caf1e8$d3d5a0a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: Hi, Gerardo, 1. It would definitely be a good idea to learn to cut your food. Like Ashley said, a rehab teacher or someone from your NFB chapter can show you, but if that's not feasible you can even ask a family member or close friend to show you how to do it. It's really not that hard-- Just takes some practice. Meanwhile, just quietly ask for help from someone sitting next to you. 2. With regard to rides, it really depends on the situation. It's cool if people take the initiative to offer you rides, but it is ultimately your responsibility to figure out your own transportation needs, so you should certainly do the asking in some situations. However, unless it is a permanent carpool arrangement (where you are paying your share of gas and such), I don't think it is a good idea to rely on rides to get to your regular commitments (work, school, etc). Check out different transportation options in your area and learn how to use them. Hope that helps! Katie On 5/12/10, clinton waterbury wrote: > The answer to both of those questions is no. > > You should learn how to cut your food. There are a number of strategies to > use. You can go to a training center to learn those skills. > > With rides, you might want to take control of the situation and ask for the > rides if you want them, but other than that, if you can, you should use cane > travel. > > I am not trying to be rude about it, but trying to let you and others in > your position know that you can do things such as this on your own. > On May 12, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: > >> Hi guys: More questions: >> 1.-I unfortunately don't know how to cut food or meat. is it fine to ask >> whoever is next to me to do the favor without letting them feel like I'm >> more burden then a regular person? >> 2.-Regarding rides and the like is it my initiative to ask for it or >> should >> my friends offer them when they know I'm blind and don't have a car? For >> now >> all but surely more in the days to come. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Wed May 12 19:45:59 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:45:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Socializing skills and asking favors References: <00c701caf1e7$2c9f7eb0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Message-ID: <1DDBD7FC90BD4C64AF6A47DDB55A09A4@Ashley> Hi Gerardo, Are you living in Mexico? If so this makes quite a difference. I don't think they have door to door service for disabled people, paratransit service. Walking as a pedestrian there is also a bit different, but its more doable in the cities. I thought you were going to school. Is school finished for the semester. Your post says you're at home; also reading through the lines you're bored. Some of this depends on your personality. If you're outspoken you're more likely to talk and be included. Here are my thoughts. Personally I've never been much a movie person; its visual and a chore to follow the story; then you have all those flashbacks and people who sound alike making it hard to follow. But if you want to go the movies, then go. 1. If you hear your cousins or friends say they're going out and you want to join, you can certainly hint or ask outright to go. Depending on how close you are to friends, you may or may not want to ask; you don't want to be pushy. For your cousins I think its alright to just say it. You could say something like "Gee we haven't been out in a while. I'd like to also catch up with what is going on and I have lots of free time." If they don't get the hint you want to go and invite you, then say "So since I have free time now, how about I come along." It sounds like your family needs some education on the cane and your capabilities to be independent. 2. Yes use your cane while going sighted guide. But I suggest making your arc narrower so you don't trip the guide. Also if you're walking in a small group such as your cousins then shorten your cane by putting your hand further down the cane so again you don't trip the people in front of you. I found if I fully extend my cane it gets in the way of other people I'm walking with. 3. While at the movies, its fine if you ask what's happening when its quiet. But don't talk often and I suggest the person only say a sentence or two. Movies are quiet places and you don't want to disrupt other people or take away from someone's experience. What might help is to read up on the film prior to going to get a sense of the plot. Newspapers have movie reviews. You may be able to search online as well. Is the film also a book? If so you can read that. Talking to people who saw the movie can help too. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerardo Corripio" To: "BlindStudents" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:24 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Socializing skills and asking favors > Hi guys: Great topic on cane and independence! Really hit home because > I'm in the process of also trying to get more independent in going out > with > friends and the like since I'm getting tired of staying home all day and > depending on people to take me here and there! So my questions are: > 1.-Suppose I hear my cousins or friends say they're going to a movie or > out > to eat. How can I ask if I can go or should I wait for them to invite me > if > I want to go? Surely they won't because I feel they're afraid of not > knowing > how to cope with a blind person because in order for me to get schooling > and > such we had to leave my native town and now my cousins are afraid and > don't > know how to cope with me or already have their own group made up and are > afraid to have me join. > 2.-I already have figured out that while guiding me around I'll use the > cane > in one hand and sighted guide in the other so there's no problem there. > 3.-While in the movie (unfortunately here in Mexico there's still no such > thing as DVS in theaters as you guys) is it all right to ask my cousin or > friend next to me to when they're no dialogues to tell me what's happening > in the film or should I try and figure it out? Because if they tell me I > will be more able to discuss the film like the sighted people because I > don't feel as part of the group while I hear comments on the film while > I'm > not able to join in them in due form since probably I wasn't able to get > all > out of the film. > All my questions for now but surely more will pop up as the days and weeks > go by. > Gerardo > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed May 12 20:23:24 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 13:23:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: <68C2AF5E14B94C60B942A992458E33BC@Ashley> References: <0C61EDD71425471EAB11570C5794BCBA@Serene> <68C2AF5E14B94C60B942A992458E33BC@Ashley> Message-ID: I'll add that one of our great leaders in this movement had a deffinition of independent travel and I'm sure some can say just who this dynamic individual was so I'll leave it to audience participation*smile* “the ability to go where you want when you want, without inconvenience to yourself or others." I like that quote, and I think when we look at traveling independently that may be something to kind of keep in our minds to kind of ask ourselves if we are going where we want to go without putting others out to do it? Darian On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Serena, > Well said. I would use sighted guide for the same reasons. Restaurants are > crowded and noisy and its more burden on a friend to verbally direct you in > a narrow likely noisy place. I support independence and practicing cane > skills but there is a time and place for that. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serena" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:40 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > > >> Of course, you don't want to be a burden to yoru new acquaintance. Using >> sighted guide in the restaurant and the movies, however, would be a good >> idea. Although it may seem like a burden to have your friend guide you, >> having her verbally direct you could seem like more of a burden to her, >> since she doesn't know how to do that yet. Also, assuming you're not >> trying to learn the layout of the restaurant or the movie theater, >> socializing with your friend is more important. Unless you're a spacial >> geneous, you won't really learn much about the layout if your friend >> verbally directs you. Let's face it ... restaurants are crowded places! >> It isn't always as easy to follow your friend in a crowded place as >> walking on the street. As long as you're the person making the decision >> to use sighted guide, not your friend making you use it, then it's fine >> for you to use it in the restaurant and the movies. Use your cane when >> you're using sighted guide! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel >> >> >>> Hi All: >>> >>> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >>> posts. I really appreciate it! >>> >>> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >>> >>> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >>> guided and when should I be using my cane? >>> >>> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >>> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >>> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >>> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >>> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >>> >>> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >>> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >>> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >>> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >>> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >>> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >>> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >>> and become independent. >>> >>> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >>> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >>> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >>> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >>> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >>> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >>> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >>> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >>> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >>> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >>> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >>> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >>> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >>> >>> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >>> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >>> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >>> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >>> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >>> home, guide me...everything. >>> >>> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >>> >>> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >>> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >>> let her. >>> >>> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >>> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >>> >>> How do I handle this with my mother? >>> >>> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >>> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >>> >>> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >>> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >>> arm?" >>> >>> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >>> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >>> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >>> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >>> use it sparingly! >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From nabs.president at gmail.com Wed May 12 20:42:39 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:42:39 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Socializing skills and asking favors In-Reply-To: <1DDBD7FC90BD4C64AF6A47DDB55A09A4@Ashley> References: <00c701caf1e7$2c9f7eb0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <1DDBD7FC90BD4C64AF6A47DDB55A09A4@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi Gerardo, I know you live in Mexico and I don't know how easy or difficult it would be for you to come to the United States to attend one of our NFB training centers, but I just want to say that lots of students from other countries have attended our centers before. From all your posts it sounds like you really want to gain more independence and learn how to do more things, and I think that even a couple of months at one of our centers could really be helpful. I am going to put the main phone numbers for our three NFB centers at the bottom of this email if you want to call and find out how you might be able to go there as an international student. Again, I don't know the details but I do know several blind people from various parts of the world who have been able to attend our centers and have then either stayed in America or returned to their home country with newfound skills, independence, and confidence. If that's something you might want to do I would encourage you to at least give one of the centers a call and speak to the person who answers the phone or ask for the executive director, or send the director an email, and tell them about your situation to see what you can work out. Best of luck and please feel free to continue posting your questions and concerns to the list. Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Colorado Center for the Blind Director: Julie Deden 800-401-4632 jdeden at cocenter.org Louisiana Center for the Blind Pam Allen, Director 800-234-4166 pallen at lcb-ruston.com BLIND, Inc. Shawn Mayo, Director 800-597-9558 info at blindinc.org On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Hi Gerardo, > Are you living in Mexico? If so this makes quite a difference. I don't > think they have door to door service for disabled people, paratransit > service. Walking as a pedestrian there is also a bit different, but its > more doable in the cities. > > I thought you were going to school. Is school finished for the semester. > Your post says you're at home; also reading through the lines you're bored. > > Some of this depends on your personality. If you're outspoken you're more > likely to talk and be included. Here are my thoughts. Personally I've > never been much a movie person; its visual and a chore to follow the story; > then you have all those flashbacks and people who sound alike making it hard > to follow. But if you want to go the movies, then go. > > 1. If you hear your cousins or friends say they're going out and you want to > join, you can certainly hint or ask outright to go. > Depending on how close you are to friends, you may or may not want to ask; > you don't want to be pushy. For your cousins I think its alright to just > say it. You could say something like > "Gee we haven't been out in a while. I'd like to also catch up with what is > going on and I have lots of free time." If they don't get the hint you want > to go and invite you, then say "So since I have free time now, how about I > come along." It sounds like your family needs some education on the cane > and your capabilities to be independent. > > 2. Yes use your cane while going sighted guide. But I suggest making your > arc narrower so you don't trip the guide. Also if you're walking in a small > group such as your cousins then shorten your cane by putting your hand > further down the cane so again you don't trip the people in front of you. I > found if I fully extend my cane it gets in the way of other people I'm > walking with. > > 3. While at the movies, its fine if you ask what's happening when its quiet. > But don't talk often and I suggest the person only say a sentence or two. > Movies are quiet places and you don't want to disrupt other people or take > away from someone's experience. What might help is to read up on the film > prior to going to get a sense of the plot. Newspapers have movie reviews. > You may be able to search online as well. Is the film also a book? If so > you can read that. > Talking to people who saw the movie can help too. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerardo Corripio" > To: "BlindStudents" > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:24 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Socializing skills and asking favors > > >> Hi guys: Great topic on cane and independence! Really hit home because >> I'm in the process of also trying to get more independent in going out >> with >> friends and the like since I'm getting tired of staying home all day and >> depending on people to take me here and there! So my questions are: >> 1.-Suppose I hear my cousins or friends say they're going to a movie or >> out >> to eat. How can I ask if I can go or should I wait for them to invite me >> if >> I want to go? Surely they won't because I feel they're afraid of not >> knowing >> how to cope with a blind person because in order for me to get schooling >> and >> such we had to leave my native town and now my cousins are afraid and >> don't >> know how to cope with me or already have their own group made up and are >> afraid to have me join. >> 2.-I already have figured out that while guiding me around I'll use the >> cane >> in one hand and sighted guide in the other so there's no problem there. >> 3.-While in the movie (unfortunately here in Mexico there's still no such >> thing as DVS in theaters as you guys) is it all right to ask my cousin or >> friend next to me to when they're no dialogues to tell me what's happening >> in the film or should I try and figure it out? Because if they tell me I >> will be more able to discuss the film like the sighted people because I >> don't feel as part of the group while I hear comments on the film while >> I'm >> not able to join in them in due form since probably I wasn't able to get >> all >> out of the film. >> All my questions for now but surely more will pop up as the days and weeks >> go by. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 12 20:47:27 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:47:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Announces 2010 Scholarship Program Winners Message-ID: > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > >CONTACT: > >Chris Danielsen > >Director of Public Relations > >National Federation of the Blind > >(410) 659-9314, extension 2330 > >(410) 262-1281 (Cell) > >cdanielsen at nfb.org > > > >National Federation of the Blind Announces >2010 Scholarship Program Winners > > > >Baltimore, Maryland (May 12, 2010): The National >Federation of the Blind (NFB), the nation’s >oldest and largest organization of blind people, >today announced the winners of its 2010 >Scholarship Program, which awards thirty >scholarships each year to recognize achievement >by blind scholars. The winners are listed below >in alphabetical order with their home states and vocational goals: > > > * Beth Allred, CO: professional vocalist and music teacher > * "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" > />Sheri Anderson, TN: emergency management professional > * Sina Bahram, NC: computer-science technologist and entrepreneur > * Alicia Betancourt, FL: social worker for disabled persons > * Zachary Brubaker, PA: high school teacher of math and physics > * Chelsea Cook, VA: astronaut or astrophysicist or physicist > * Mary Fernandez, NJ: clinical psychologist > * C. J. Fish, VA: mental health counselor > * Rashi Goel, GA: environmental engineer > * Deepa Goraya, CA: attorney­disability > rights and civil rights legislation specialist > * Antonio Guimaraes, RI: social studies teacher, grades 5–12 > * Mary Hernandez, NE: classroom or itinerant teacher of blind students > * Chris Jeckel, IL: attorney > * Andrea Jenkins, GA: Spanish translator and interpreter > * Kayleigh Joiner, TX: elementary school teacher > * Melissa Lomax, NJ: high school English teacher > * Kirt Manwaring, UT: attorney > * Kristin Mathe, PA: professor of rhetoric (communication) > * Esha Mehta, CO: elementary school teacher > * Tabea Meyer, IN: social worker for children in school or foster care > * Josie Nielson, ID: violin soloist­performer and recording artist > * Shaun Reimers, UT: attorney and community activist > * Ashley Ritter, IN: teacher of blind children > * Cali Sandel, SC: federal program administrator, Washington, D.C. > * Jessica Scannell, NJ: teacher of blind > children, birth through junior high > * Quintina Singleton, NJ: teacher, special education classroom > * Yadiel Sotomayor, PR: English/Spanish translator or English teacher > * Tara Prakash Tripathi, FL: teacher of > access technology and active advocate > * Kayla Weathers, GA: special education > teacher for blind and visually impaired students > * Michelle Wesley, IL: veterinarian > > > >“These students represent academic excellence, >and many of them are doubtless future leaders of >this nation’s blind,” said Dr. Marc Maurer, >President of the National Federation of the >Blind. “They are forging a path in disciplines >as varied as astrophysics, computer science, >social work, law, and psychology. They are >proof of our conviction that we, the blind of >this nation, can compete on terms of equality >with our sighted peers, and we are very proud of their accomplishments.” > > > >In July each winner will attend the NFB’s >seventieth annual national convention in Dallas, >Texas, where the committee will spend several >days getting to know each student and then >decide which scholarship (ranging in value from >$3,000 to $12,000) to award each of them. The >scholarship winners will then be announced at >the banquet of the NFB convention on Thursday, July 8. > > > >For more information on the National Federation >of the Blind Scholarship Program, visit >www.nfb.org/scholarships. > > > >### > > > >About the National Federation of the Blind > >With more than 50,000 members, the National >Federation of the Blind is the largest and most >influential membership organization of blind >people in the United States. The NFB improves >blind people’s lives through advocacy, >education, research, technology, and programs >encouraging independence and >self-confidence. It is the leading force in the >blindness field today and the voice of the >nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened >the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan >Institute, the first research and training >center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. > David Andrews and long white cane Harry, dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From steve.jacobson at visi.com Wed May 12 20:46:59 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:46:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: <68C2AF5E14B94C60B942A992458E33BC@Ashley> Message-ID: Keep in mind that cane travel and "sighted guide" don't have to be mutually exclusive. One can hang on to the arm of another person to know where they are but still remain responsible for looking for obstacles and stairs with one's cane. One can then walk next to the other person making it easier to talk, dropping back when passing through a narrow aisle. I sometimes walk with other blind people that way, not because they necessarily know the way better than I, but so I know where they are as we talk. Still, I think it is very important to develop one's skills enough so that if they walk with someone else it ie because they choose to and not because they have to. Best regards, Steve Jacobsonbut still On Wed, 12 May 2010 14:40:24 -0400, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >Serena, >Well said. I would use sighted guide for the same reasons. Restaurants are >crowded and noisy and its more burden on a friend to verbally direct you in >a narrow likely noisy place. I support independence and practicing cane >skills but there is a time and place for that. >Ashley >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Serena" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:40 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel >> Of course, you don't want to be a burden to yoru new acquaintance. Using >> sighted guide in the restaurant and the movies, however, would be a good >> idea. Although it may seem like a burden to have your friend guide you, >> having her verbally direct you could seem like more of a burden to her, >> since she doesn't know how to do that yet. Also, assuming you're not >> trying to learn the layout of the restaurant or the movie theater, >> socializing with your friend is more important. Unless you're a spacial >> geneous, you won't really learn much about the layout if your friend >> verbally directs you. Let's face it ... restaurants are crowded places! >> It isn't always as easy to follow your friend in a crowded place as >> walking on the street. As long as you're the person making the decision >> to use sighted guide, not your friend making you use it, then it's fine >> for you to use it in the restaurant and the movies. Use your cane when >> you're using sighted guide! >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel >> >> >>> Hi All: >>> >>> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >>> posts. I really appreciate it! >>> >>> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >>> >>> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >>> guided and when should I be using my cane? >>> >>> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >>> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >>> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >>> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >>> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >>> >>> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >>> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >>> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >>> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >>> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >>> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >>> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >>> and become independent. >>> >>> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >>> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >>> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >>> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >>> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >>> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >>> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >>> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >>> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >>> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >>> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >>> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >>> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >>> >>> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >>> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >>> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >>> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >>> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >>> home, guide me...everything. >>> >>> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >>> >>> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >>> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >>> let her. >>> >>> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >>> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >>> >>> How do I handle this with my mother? >>> >>> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >>> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >>> >>> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >>> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >>> arm?" >>> >>> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >>> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >>> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >>> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >>> use it sparingly! >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Kerri >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Wed May 12 21:25:00 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:25:00 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: Greetings Friends: As often is the case in battling a significant illness, there are good days and bad days. This day represents a setback for Ray. This morning Ray had a seizure. Further scans revealed that there is a fluid build up on the brain causing pressure which undoubtedly led to the seizure. The doctors are exploring various alternatives to releave that pressure. This is a bump in the road but we expect Ray to recover fully. It just may take a little longer than we had hoped. Diane greatly appreciates all your continuing love and support. I will pass along an update once we have a better handle on the next step. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu May 13 01:28:10 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:28:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel Message-ID: <20100513012810.12815.88001@web2> Kerri, It sounds like you've got the hang of things. However, I would advise you to make your decisions based on your own comfort first before worrying about anyone else's. Your friend might be uncomfortable giving you directions at first, but that's no reason to simply take an arm. She'll be uncomfortable for a while until she gets the hang of giving verbal instructions. It will also take some time for you to get comfortable receiving and acting on them. You will probaby find that your comfort with independent travel will increase the more you do it. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hey All: > Thanks for the posts again and the support! > I think I will just take all of your advice and use my judgment. I > think I'll nice tell my friend that if she doesn't mind I would like > to try to use my cane and walk beside her and she can give me > directions but that if she feels uncomfortable at any time or the > restaurant is really noisy and following her does create more of a > scene than necessary I'll take her arm. Same for the movie > theater...if she is cool with me walking beside her with my cane while > she gives me directions and she is comfortable and things go smoothly > and it's not causing a huge scene or she isn't say shouting loudly in > order for me to hear her directions/follow her than I'll take an arm. > I think you are right...it's a judgment call but now it seems simple > to me...use the cane when it is comfortable and the process is > unobtrusive and does not cause a scene but if I'm in a huge hurry or > there is too much noise than grab an arm! > I am going to try doing some independent travel this weekend to a > couple of places to practice more of my cane travel. > Thanks again! > Kerri > Kerri > On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >> Carrie, >> I am still in my 20's and struggle with this question. When I was your age >> I was in the middle of college and just starting to make sighted friends who >> seemed comfortable with me. I have tunnel vision, so if I'm going anywhere >> alone I need my cane. >> I don't think your problems fitting in with sighted people was just due to >> your travel skills. It was likely other factors such as personality, lack >> of common interests, and perhaps dress. In public school I found students >> were very kliqely. If you did not have interests and dress like the klique, >> you were not in this close group, the klique. Students were often in their >> own world and would not accept someone different. Did you go to a diverse >> city school? Well I did, with thousands of students. I'm sure others >> observed this too. The Asian students hung together; the Latinos hung >> together; the choir group was together; the football group was together. >> Why is that? Well because they have something in common such as language, >> culture or interest. I'm sure everyone has observed this in large >> institutions such as school. >> So yes your independence was a factor but don't think it was the only >> factor. I also was guided by my mother or family the majority of the time, >> but not in school of course. >> If you have been completely blind, surely you recieved some O and M service >> through school. I know I did, but it was not enough. But it showed me the >> basics to get started. I only saw the O and M teacher a few times a month, >> so of course we could not cover too much. >> Now as to the situation with your friend, do have fun anbe friendly. Its a >> judgement call on your end. I think accepting assistance in some >> situations is totally appropriate. So if its convenient for your friend to >> pick you up, you can accept it; she would probably do the same for other >> friends without cars. I agree with Katie that taking a person's arm in >> unfamiliar places makes it >> easier to have conversations. >> I think sighted guide is fine in restaurants and movie theaters. This is >> because restaurants can be noisy with narrow spaces between tables. You >> will make a scene if your friend has to tell you directions and talk to you >> to get to your table. Next in the movie theater that is a quiet place and >> I'm sure you and your friend wish to sit together. So just take her arm and >> she can lead you to a seat. >> Other open places with friends or family it may be more appropriate to >> follow them and use your cane. This may be a mall or park or some other >> trip like going to a museum. But some places either due to noise or the >> quietness it just sounds better to me to go sighted guide so you don't >> disrupt activity. >> I assume you live at home still. If so that's difficult to create >> independent opportunities. If your mom is like mine she is protective and >> does not have confidence in my abilities. I know I don't have a good sense >> of direction, but practice will help things. Maybe plan an outing alone >> such as to the mall. You said in another post you were going to a mall and >> bar. >> That is a good opportunity. Go to a mall or maybe a strip shopping center. >> Have a goal to find so many stores. >> If there is a special occasion in your family such as a birthday or >> anniversary do some research where you can find a particular gift or card. >> You can either do this online or by calling stores to find out what they >> sell. Then plan an independent trip to those stores and buy a present. >> Your family member will be impressed when you present it to them. >> as for your mom, I have the same problem and wish I had a better solution. >> All I can think of is to talk to her. Be nice but say now that you got a >> new cane and you are getting older you would like to walk independently. >> Tell her you'll get better with practice. >> HTH, >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kerri Kosten" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel >>> Hi All: >>> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >>> posts. I really appreciate it! >>> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >>> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >>> guided and when should I be using my cane? >>> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >>> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >>> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >>> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >>> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >>> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >>> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >>> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >>> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >>> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >>> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >>> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >>> and become independent. >>> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >>> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >>> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >>> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >>> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >>> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >>> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >>> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >>> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >>> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >>> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >>> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >>> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >>> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >>> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >>> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >>> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >>> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >>> home, guide me...everything. >>> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >>> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >>> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >>> let her. >>> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >>> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >>> How do I handle this with my mother? >>> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >>> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >>> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >>> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >>> arm?" >>> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >>> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >>> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >>> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >>> use it sparingly! >>> Thanks! >>> Kerri >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu May 13 01:31:48 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:31:48 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Socializing skills and asking favors Message-ID: <20100513013148.3325.96406@web3> Gerardo, If I were you, I would ask to come along with your cousins. After all, how else will they get comfortable if they don't have an opportunity to minimize their discomfort? Also, I would recommend asking for descriptions of what's on the film so you can meaningfully discuss the film with them. Besides, they are members of your own family, so some social rules (such as the rule of don't impose) don't apply in teh same way they do with others. Just my opinion. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi guys: Great topic on cane and independence! Really hit home because > I'm in the process of also trying to get more independent in going out with > friends and the like since I'm getting tired of staying home all day and > depending on people to take me here and there! So my questions are: > 1.-Suppose I hear my cousins or friends say they're going to a movie or out > to eat. How can I ask if I can go or should I wait for them to invite me if > I want to go? Surely they won't because I feel they're afraid of not knowing > how to cope with a blind person because in order for me to get schooling and > such we had to leave my native town and now my cousins are afraid and don't > know how to cope with me or already have their own group made up and are > afraid to have me join. > 2.-I already have figured out that while guiding me around I'll use the cane > in one hand and sighted guide in the other so there's no problem there. > 3.-While in the movie (unfortunately here in Mexico there's still no such > thing as DVS in theaters as you guys) is it all right to ask my cousin or > friend next to me to when they're no dialogues to tell me what's happening > in the film or should I try and figure it out? Because if they tell me I > will be more able to discuss the film like the sighted people because I > don't feel as part of the group while I hear comments on the film while I'm > not able to join in them in due form since probably I wasn't able to get all > out of the film. > All my questions for now but surely more will pop up as the days and weeks > go by. > Gerardo > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu May 13 01:41:59 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:41:59 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 Message-ID: <20100513014159.3325.1654@web3> Well, for those of us not able to attend training centers to learn how to cut one's own meat, let me offer you a description of the procedure that I offered to another Federationist asking the same question. It reads as follows: If it were me, I'd practice cutting meat before heading out to the restaurant. This can be done with a pancake or something similar. The best technique I know for cutting meat and similar items is as follows. 1. start by getting a sense of the object's shape and location in relationship to other items on the plate. You can do this by gently tracing the object with the tines of the fork or with the blade of the knife you're about to cut it with. 2. Find, if at all possible, the pointiest bit of the object you're about to cut. If you are cutting a mostly round object, then just choose some old spot near the edge to start. 3. Stick the tines of the fork a short distance from the edge of the object. You want a bite-sized piece, so start with about an inch or so That's 2.54 centimeters for some folks. If that seems too big, go smaller until you find a bite size that's perfect for you. 4. With the blade of the knife, cut around the fork tines. How far you cut around the tines depends on the object itself and the distance from the object's edge you've chosen. Sometimes, it helps to put the knife edge as close to the tines as possible so you have continueous tactile contact without the tines actually getting in the way. 5. Eat the bite you've created. If it's too heavy on the way to your mouth, feel free to cut it in half. Don't forget that sighted people sometimes cut bites too big for them as well, so don't be embarrassed if this happens on occasion. 6. Restart the process. This time, having cut your first piece will allow you to find a pointy bit of the object where you can stick the tines of the fork. Repeat this process until your object is gone. 7. When cutting salad or pasta, run the blade of your knife through the dish widthwise across the pasta. If it's salad, cut widthwise and then lengthwise. Use your judgement on how necessary this really is. 8. Practice, practice, practice. Do this sort of thing at home as often as you can for maximum practice. Blindfold yourself if you have vision because it's not polite to have your face in your food even if you are trying to see what you're cutting. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > The answer to both of those questions is no. > You should learn how to cut your food. There are a number of > strategies to use. You can go to a training center to learn those skills. > With rides, you might want to take control of the situation and ask for > the rides if you want them, but other than that, if you can, you should > use cane travel. > I am not trying to be rude about it, but trying to let you and others > in your position know that you can do things such as this on your own. > On May 12, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Gerardo Corripio wrote: >> Hi guys: More questions: >> 1.-I unfortunately don't know how to cut food or meat. is it fine to ask >> whoever is next to me to do the favor without letting them feel like I'm >> more burden then a regular person? >> 2.-Regarding rides and the like is it my initiative to ask for it or should >> my friends offer them when they know I'm blind and don't have a car? For now >> all but surely more in the days to come. >> Gerardo >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clinton.waterbury%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Thu May 13 01:51:19 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:51:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 In-Reply-To: <8E329AA7F933431AADE033AC6F0A4064@Ashley> References: <00cb01caf1e8$d3d5a0a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> <8E329AA7F933431AADE033AC6F0A4064@Ashley> Message-ID: Quick note...if you are at a restaurant, it is perfectly acceptable to order food cut prior to reaching the table. The cooks have a quick and easy way of cutting meat and such, and it is not a burden nor is it a rare request. So if you're out at a restaurant, just ask for the cook to have the food cut before it comes to the table. No one will think anything of it. This is good for while you are learning how to cut your food, and even for after you learn if at a fancy restaurant and you don't trust yourself to keep food on the plate (sometimes, because of my nerve pain and shaking, I have a lot of trouble cutting food, so I still get it pre-cut at times). As for rides, yes, you should be the one to ask. However, if you have other transportation, such as city buses, paratransit services, or your two feet, you should consider thesese as well. Don't put all the weight of your transportation on your friends and family. Learn the bus routes to the places you go most, and learn about other transporation options. There is a book called "How to Live Well Without Owning a Car." It is available from the NLS BARD website in digital audio format, and is very useful. It is written for anyone who doesn't have a car, so ignore the section about car-sharing, since obviously you can't share a car you can't drive. But the rest of it is pretty relevant, and I found it useful. Ride-sharing and chipping in gas money or bartering (You could do your laundry at my house, if I could get a ride to the grocery store once a month when you go). Another book, "Finding Wheels" (also available from NLS) is intended more for adolescents with special needs, but I found it relevant to my life as well. Being independent enought to get places without relying on your friends or family will make it easier to go wherever you want, when you want. And your friends will be more likely to give you a ride if it's not every time you want to go somewhere. My two cents, Jewel On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: > Gerardo, > > Just like with Carrie's question, you need to decide based on the situation > and balance independence with help. > > 1. If you cannot cut food and you have no other disability you should take > time to learn. Ask a friend to show you. Is there someone you trust in > your nfb chapter that can show you privately and not gossip? I could not do > this for years. Finally a rehab teacher came to my home and one thing she > showed me was cutting food. Would it be possible to get a teacher from the > department for the blind to help you do such tasks? Also you may consider a > center if your skills overall need improvement. > For now just ask someone to cut your food up that's next to you. > Did you go away to college? I wonder how you managed without someone there > to cut your food? > > 2. Regarding rides, yes do ask if you need it. Your friends don't know your > needs; > they may not automatically ask; in other cultures that might be more the > case but not here. > Some close friends may offer you a ride though. If you do ask for rides > offer something in return such as a meal or paying for gas. > Also have alternative modes of transit so your friends don't always have to > pick you up. What is the public transit like? Unfortunately in many areas > of America it has a lot to be desired. Is there a door to door service for > people with disabilities? Here its called metro access. > For short distances cabs are an option too. > > I think getting help is alright but you need a way to do it more > independently because the same people will not always be there to help you. > For now I get a lot of rides from family because I'm at home. When I have a > job I can afford to move out on my own. But I also have the door to door > paratransit service, metro access. > > Ashley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gerardo Corripio" > To: "BlindStudents" > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:35 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Sociaolizing Part2 > > >> Hi guys: More questions: >> 1.-I unfortunately don't know how to cut food or meat. is it fine to ask >> whoever is next to me to do the favor without letting them feel like I'm >> more burden then a regular person? >> 2.-Regarding rides and the like is it my initiative to ask for it or >> should >> my friends offer them when they know I'm blind and don't have a car? For >> now >> all but surely more in the days to come. >> Gerardo >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu May 13 04:12:20 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:12:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: <20100513012810.12815.88001@web2> References: <20100513012810.12815.88001@web2> Message-ID: Hi All: Just wanted to update about tonight! I went with my friend and it was a lot of fun! I just took your advice and took her arm and used my cane on the other side. This really helped actually, and made me very independent in a sense, because the cane came to steps, curbs, and cars that were on my other side and my friend didn't have to tell me once to step up or down or anything like that! I explained to her what the cane did, and the first couple of times it came across an obsticle or came to a step up or curb she was able to see how it worked and how it helped me...I think she was impressed. By doing this, I definitely understood what you all have been telling me...there is a time and place to follow and use the cane and be totally independent but with a friend many times it looks better, and in my opinion at least gives them a better impression of blindness if you just take their arm and use the cane on the other side. This way you don't have to struggle to concentrate on following their directions and you can have a conversation with them but at the same time not be totally depending on them and looking helpless. I have not been able to try it much yet, but I do think I could do this by myself if I had to, and wwhen I do go to the movies or mall or somewhere by myself where it is appropriate to do so I will use my cane and just follow or explore! Thanks for all the help/suggestions/support. It helped me understand things a lot better and I believe I now understand the role of independence a lot more! Kerri On 5/12/10, Jedi wrote: > Kerri, > > It sounds like you've got the hang of things. However, I would advise > you to make your decisions based on your own comfort first before > worrying about anyone else's. Your friend might be uncomfortable giving > you directions at first, but that's no reason to simply take an arm. > She'll be uncomfortable for a while until she gets the hang of giving > verbal instructions. It will also take some time for you to get > comfortable receiving and acting on them. You will probaby find that > your comfort with independent travel will increase the more you do it. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> Hey All: > >> Thanks for the posts again and the support! > >> I think I will just take all of your advice and use my judgment. I >> think I'll nice tell my friend that if she doesn't mind I would like >> to try to use my cane and walk beside her and she can give me >> directions but that if she feels uncomfortable at any time or the >> restaurant is really noisy and following her does create more of a >> scene than necessary I'll take her arm. Same for the movie >> theater...if she is cool with me walking beside her with my cane while >> she gives me directions and she is comfortable and things go smoothly >> and it's not causing a huge scene or she isn't say shouting loudly in >> order for me to hear her directions/follow her than I'll take an arm. > >> I think you are right...it's a judgment call but now it seems simple >> to me...use the cane when it is comfortable and the process is >> unobtrusive and does not cause a scene but if I'm in a huge hurry or >> there is too much noise than grab an arm! > >> I am going to try doing some independent travel this weekend to a >> couple of places to practice more of my cane travel. > >> Thanks again! >> Kerri > >> Kerri > >> On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>> Carrie, > >>> I am still in my 20's and struggle with this question. When I was your >>> age >>> I was in the middle of college and just starting to make sighted friends >>> who >>> seemed comfortable with me. I have tunnel vision, so if I'm going >>> anywhere >>> alone I need my cane. > >>> I don't think your problems fitting in with sighted people was just due >>> to >>> your travel skills. It was likely other factors such as personality, >>> lack >>> of common interests, and perhaps dress. In public school I found >>> students >>> were very kliqely. If you did not have interests and dress like the >>> klique, >>> you were not in this close group, the klique. Students were often in >>> their >>> own world and would not accept someone different. Did you go to a >>> diverse >>> city school? Well I did, with thousands of students. I'm sure others >>> observed this too. The Asian students hung together; the Latinos hung >>> together; the choir group was together; the football group was together. >>> Why is that? Well because they have something in common such as >>> language, >>> culture or interest. I'm sure everyone has observed this in large >>> institutions such as school. >>> So yes your independence was a factor but don't think it was the only >>> factor. I also was guided by my mother or family the majority of the >>> time, >>> but not in school of course. > >>> If you have been completely blind, surely you recieved some O and M >>> service >>> through school. I know I did, but it was not enough. But it showed me >>> the >>> basics to get started. I only saw the O and M teacher a few times a >>> month, >>> so of course we could not cover too much. > >>> Now as to the situation with your friend, do have fun anbe friendly. Its >>> a >>> judgement call on your end. I think accepting assistance in some >>> situations is totally appropriate. So if its convenient for your friend >>> to >>> pick you up, you can accept it; she would probably do the same for other >>> friends without cars. I agree with Katie that taking a person's arm in >>> unfamiliar places makes it >>> easier to have conversations. >>> I think sighted guide is fine in restaurants and movie theaters. This is >>> because restaurants can be noisy with narrow spaces between tables. You >>> will make a scene if your friend has to tell you directions and talk to >>> you >>> to get to your table. Next in the movie theater that is a quiet place >>> and >>> I'm sure you and your friend wish to sit together. So just take her arm >>> and >>> she can lead you to a seat. > >>> Other open places with friends or family it may be more appropriate to >>> follow them and use your cane. This may be a mall or park or some other >>> trip like going to a museum. But some places either due to noise or the >>> quietness it just sounds better to me to go sighted guide so you don't >>> disrupt activity. > >>> I assume you live at home still. If so that's difficult to create >>> independent opportunities. If your mom is like mine she is protective >>> and >>> does not have confidence in my abilities. I know I don't have a good >>> sense >>> of direction, but practice will help things. Maybe plan an outing alone >>> such as to the mall. You said in another post you were going to a mall >>> and >>> bar. >>> That is a good opportunity. Go to a mall or maybe a strip shopping >>> center. >>> Have a goal to find so many stores. >>> If there is a special occasion in your family such as a birthday or >>> anniversary do some research where you can find a particular gift or >>> card. >>> You can either do this online or by calling stores to find out what they >>> sell. Then plan an independent trip to those stores and buy a present. >>> Your family member will be impressed when you present it to them. > >>> as for your mom, I have the same problem and wish I had a better >>> solution. >>> All I can think of is to talk to her. Be nice but say now that you got a >>> new cane and you are getting older you would like to walk independently. >>> Tell her you'll get better with practice. > >>> HTH, >>> Ashley >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > > >>>> Hi All: > >>>> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >>>> posts. I really appreciate it! > >>>> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. > >>>> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >>>> guided and when should I be using my cane? > >>>> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >>>> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >>>> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >>>> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >>>> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. > >>>> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >>>> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >>>> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >>>> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >>>> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >>>> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >>>> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >>>> and become independent. > >>>> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >>>> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >>>> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >>>> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >>>> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >>>> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >>>> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >>>> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >>>> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >>>> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >>>> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >>>> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >>>> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. > >>>> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >>>> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >>>> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >>>> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >>>> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >>>> home, guide me...everything. > >>>> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. > >>>> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >>>> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >>>> let her. > >>>> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >>>> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? > >>>> How do I handle this with my mother? > >>>> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >>>> all the time I never learn to use my cane. > >>>> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >>>> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >>>> arm?" > >>>> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >>>> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >>>> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >>>> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >>>> use it sparingly! > >>>> Thanks! >>>> Kerri > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu May 13 14:23:38 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:23:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac Message-ID: <84D3EE8CB2134B9199F601C3DFAFAB69@Rufus> Hello, Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad and iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions are very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. Mac Book Pro: I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. I have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. Voiceover: The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort with faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many delays in accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the logic of the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used the VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. I understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I somehow enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater flexibility without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor to be able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to interact more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the Mac Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes and selecting items from lists was awkward. iPad: I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard and to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use the same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I somehow thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a touch screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for more comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator to get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very short of my expectations. iPhone: I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with it. Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact with e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think the Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, the iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well be golden. So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring the Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also share their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've written here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative platform for what it is. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5112 (20100513) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From freethaught at gmail.com Thu May 13 15:34:32 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:34:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> Message-ID: <76D34CABF29F495894A414CECCCCBEBF@userf9b4fa60eb> Ashley and all, You will want to visit your local government career center, if your city has a one stop career center, and most metropolitan areas i think have one. They offer services like resume building workshops, have a listing of jobs available in your geographic and professional area, and more. It will help for you to come to job fares, and the career centers tend to sponsor, or know where they are being held. Hope this helps. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:39 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > Katie! > > Where did you go to school? I am also in that area; I graduated from > Marymount in Arlington. > I have checked with older friends but they have no leads and some > companies such as verizon are downsizing due to the recession. > Still friends are good resources; networking is important. The problem I > see is that there are few entry level jobs; most jobs are higher level > requiring five years experience typically. > > I do check dcjobs.com but there as with many job ad sites many jobs are > supervisory level. I'll still check though. > > You are very fortunate to have a paid internship. Many internships are > unpaid. Where are you working? Who supplied accomodations? > Good luck! > > Ashley > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Katy Carroll" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > >> Hi all, >> >> I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am >> starting a paid internship soon. >> >> Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job >> database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, >> if >> you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job site. >> Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for example. >> I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't >> heard >> anything back from them. I find this very surprising. >> And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues >> can >> be the best resource of all. >> >> Best of luck, >> Kate >> >> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: >> >>> Ashley those are some good questions. >>> I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place >>> to >>> work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my >>> state >>> license. >>> I am looking to stay in my ariea. >>> So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? >>> Rania, >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what >>> did >>> you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? >>> Friends >>> at the companies you wanted to work for? >>> Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such >>> as >>> a >>> job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your >>> college? >>> >>> I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position >>> to >>> use my writing skills. >>> >>> My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did >>> not >>> elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means >>> and >>> will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party >>> attempting >>> to >>> "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know >>> nothing >>> about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to >>> know >>> me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something >>> may >>> not work out in our relationship. >>> >>> Look forward to your thoughts. >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai >>> l.com >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 >>> 13:40:00 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Kathryn CARROLL >> American University >> 631 521 3018 >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu May 13 15:50:52 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:50:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac Message-ID: Joe, This is good stuff, and I, for one, really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. Do you know which version of the operating system you were using? My understanding is that there have been improvements with respect to VoiceOver's method of handling check boxes and such in the latest version, I think 10.7, but don't know the details. >From what I gather, web browsing on the MAC is significantly enough different that it takes time to really understand how to deal with web pages effectively. If I ever get the chance to really spend some time on the MAC, I would probably want to talk to some people experienced with the MAC to find out how they handle certain tasks. I know that there are a few MAC users here as well and hope they chime in. Your point that MACs are different than PC's is a good one and I have found I have to be careful making assumptions. For example, when my daughter got her MAC, she mentioned TextEdit. I assumed that TextEdit was a text editor. This seems like a reasonable assumption given the name, but as I'm sure you already know, it is not. It is a reasonably powerful word processor that is included with the operating system. As far as I can tell, it is a good deal more powerful than WordPad. What do your fellow employees use for word processing? I am told that Open Office works reasonably well with VoiceOver but that Microsoft Word for the MAC does not. I also think that the issue of VoiceOver being included free is something potential buyers have to be careful of as a reason to choose a MAC over a PC. It is included free, there is no doubt of that, and Apple should be commended for what they are doing. However, it appears to me that you still pay a good deal more for a MAC than a PC, and while buying a screen reader for a PC will certainly wipe out the difference, the total cost of each becomes less of an issue in my opinion. You would be very hard pressed to buy a PC with JFW without paying a good deal more than you would pay for a MAC, but buying a PC with one of the less expensive screen readers might be cheaper in some cases and the accessibility you get could be similar to what you get with VoiceOver. One really needs to decide if their interests and/or their environment make using a MAC the way to go. Being able to make such a choice is a very positive step, though, and I am not minimizing that in the least. It is very significant that we now have this option. Thanks again for sharing this information. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 13 May 2010 10:23:38 -0400, Joe Orozco wrote: >Hello, >Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad and >iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions are >very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. >Mac Book Pro: >I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know >that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell >Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a >disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. I >have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. >Voiceover: >The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort with >faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the >operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many delays in >accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the logic of >the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used the >VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. I >understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I somehow >enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater flexibility >without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to >copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor to be >able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on >relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the >majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to interact >more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the Mac >Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes and >selecting items from lists was awkward. >iPad: >I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard and >to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use the >same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I somehow >thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is >simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a touch >screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for more >comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator to >get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very >short of my expectations. >iPhone: >I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with it. >Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact with >e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think the >Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, the >iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of >accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well be >golden. >So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring the >Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also share >their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've written >here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have >been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just >remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative >platform for what it is. >Joe >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 5112 (20100513) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >nfbcs mailing list >nfbcs at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From freethaught at gmail.com Thu May 13 15:56:05 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:56:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel References: Message-ID: <5AC8130FDEE64F3B9FC749AAB494CD6A@userf9b4fa60eb> Kerri, I thank you for bringing up this issue, since it is something you are pondering and need to find an acceptable answer. First you should, as a 22-year old, be able to travel to and fro on your own. That means you can grab your cane, approach a car, get in, and stow your cane, and get to your place of destination. The driver will do their magic in getting you driven there. There is no reason to sight guide from your door to your seat in a car, yet you will be amazed how many people think this is such a hard job, and takes oh so much courage, and brain power on your part. This part of the trip is clear to me. You know your way, you can visualize every step of the way onto the car, and you don't need, and in my opinion, should not accept help. This is where I would be diplomatically independent at first, then if someone pushed the issue, would turn stubborn. Heck, your 15-year old brother, or 20-year old cousin, or basically someone of your age and ability does not take an arm to move about from one known place to another, do they? I would argue this point whenever you are confident you can get from point a to point b with ease, and without help. Now you get to the movies, and your friend wants to be helpful, or she did since I am a few days late. You may choose to take an arm ir you can get from the car to the line, and to the theater with more ease, or you may, if you want to gain the experience, ask the friend to walk beside you, and verbally direct you whenever you need to turn right or left, and the rest you can do. That includes up steps, doors, and yes, the sighted public who might be wondering why your friend isn't helping you, when in fact she is. I take more offers of sighted guide as some independent-minded people would like, but the key word here is I. I decide what is best for me, not what others see fit. I find it better to navigate through a restaurant to a table with friends sighted guide, but I am not shy about getting up to find the bathroom, or the napkins on my own. I take the arm of a friend after getting off the car, and when moving through Best Buy, but I am also the one asking the sales person the questions about the products I am interested in buying. There are some things people aught to be able to do, like finding and giving directions, locating a store, restaurant, bus stop, street, etc. The phrase orientation and mobility sums up what one needs to be doing. Be oriented, and be mobile. What you do as far as sighted guide will be different from others, and will progress with time. As you put it, one need not be rebellious about it most of the time, but if you can do the job, and you want to practice walking parking lots, side walks, navigating through doors, people, tables, aisles, and so on, you might need to inform your parents and friends that you need the practice, and that they need to help you try. Best luck with it. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > Hi All: > > First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other > posts. I really appreciate it! > > I have another independent travel/cane travel question. > > Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be > guided and when should I be using my cane? > > Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I > was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy > folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since > learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely > the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. > > I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like > it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother > wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and > battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being > guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very > important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if > I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn > and become independent. > > In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in > with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I > really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind > person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would > pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient > it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of > course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the > cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray > they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I > was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When > I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person > because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a > responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. > > I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I > have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be > rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience > with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used > to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me > home, guide me...everything. > > We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. > > I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not > mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may > let her. > > But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I > follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? > > How do I handle this with my mother? > > As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it > all the time I never learn to use my cane. > > I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as > "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an > arm?" > > I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the > time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me > and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While > I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and > use it sparingly! > > Thanks! > Kerri > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From kc2992a at student.american.edu Thu May 13 16:31:45 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 12:31:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies In-Reply-To: <76D34CABF29F495894A414CECCCCBEBF@userf9b4fa60eb> References: <4E5758F69A2B43A48ACC110E05050766@RainaIsmailPC> <76D34CABF29F495894A414CECCCCBEBF@userf9b4fa60eb> Message-ID: Ashely, I am living in Bethesda now. I went to American University and will be interning in Alexandria, VA. (A hike, I know.) It's nice to meet someone else in the area! Feel free to email me off-list at kc2992a at student.american.edu. Kate On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. < freethaught at gmail.com> wrote: > Ashley and all, > > You will want to visit your local government career center, if your city > has a one stop career center, and most metropolitan areas i think have one. > They offer services like resume building workshops, have a listing of jobs > available in your geographic and professional area, and more. > > It will help for you to come to job fares, and the career centers tend to > sponsor, or know where they are being held. > > Hope this helps. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > Student, Western Governors University > (617) 744-9716 > Eastern time zone > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" < > bookwormahb at earthlink.net> > > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < > nabs-l at nfbnet.org> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:39 AM > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies > > > Katie! >> >> Where did you go to school? I am also in that area; I graduated from >> Marymount in Arlington. >> I have checked with older friends but they have no leads and some >> companies such as verizon are downsizing due to the recession. >> Still friends are good resources; networking is important. The problem I >> see is that there are few entry level jobs; most jobs are higher level >> requiring five years experience typically. >> >> I do check dcjobs.com but there as with many job ad sites many jobs are >> supervisory level. I'll still check though. >> >> You are very fortunate to have a paid internship. Many internships are >> unpaid. Where are you working? Who supplied accomodations? >> Good luck! >> >> Ashley >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katy Carroll" < >> kc2992a at student.american.edu> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" < >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] job search strategies >> >> >> Hi all, >>> >>> I just graduated this month, and so I am out in the job market. I am >>> starting a paid internship soon. >>> >>> Does your school have a career center, or an office that keeps a job >>> database for students? Also, try some job websites likes monster.com or, >>> if >>> you want government work, usajobs.gov. You can try a more local job >>> site. >>> Since I am located in the DC area, I would be on dcjobs.com, for >>> example. >>> I have put my resume into a few job placement programs, but I haven't >>> heard >>> anything back from them. I find this very surprising. >>> And, finally, I have found that friends, acquaintances, and colleagues >>> can >>> be the best resource of all. >>> >>> Best of luck, >>> Kate >>> >>> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Rania wrote: >>> >>> Ashley those are some good questions. >>>> I will be graduating in two months and want to start looking for a place >>>> to >>>> work so I at least have something in place while I wait to receive my >>>> state >>>> license. >>>> I am looking to stay in my ariea. >>>> So are there any suggestions as to how I can get started? >>>> Rania, >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of bookwormahb at earthlink.net >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:40 PM >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] job search strategies >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> For those of you who graduated and are looking or looked for work, what >>>> did >>>> you do? What was the best source of job leads? An internet site? >>>> Friends >>>> at the companies you wanted to work for? >>>> Did your rehab counselor give you guidance or someone to work with such >>>> as >>>> a >>>> job coach? Did you recieve job development help through VR or your >>>> college? >>>> >>>> I want to get a clerical position, outreach position, or some position >>>> to >>>> use my writing skills. >>>> >>>> My VR counselor said she wants me to use Job placement services but did >>>> not >>>> elaborate on it; she will in a meeting. Do you all know what this means >>>> and >>>> will this help me? My gut feeling tells me that a third party >>>> attempting >>>> to >>>> "sell" me to an employer or place me somewhere- a place I may know >>>> nothing >>>> about may not work to my advantage because the employer may not get to >>>> know >>>> me and if I get a job then they may not like my personality or something >>>> may >>>> not work out in our relationship. >>>> >>>> Look forward to your thoughts. >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai >>>> l.com< >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai%0Al.com >>>> > >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2868 - Release Date: 05/11/10 >>>> 13:40:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Kathryn CARROLL >>> American University >>> 631 521 3018 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Thu May 13 16:42:33 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:42:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac References: <84D3EE8CB2134B9199F601C3DFAFAB69@Rufus> Message-ID: <028301caf2bb$4943b2a0$6601a8c0@server> Hi Joe,' I really appreciate hearing your observations. I plan on taking a similar Mac product journey soon. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:23 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac > Hello, > > Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad and > iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions > are > very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. > > Mac Book Pro: > > I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know > that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell > Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a > disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. I > have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. > > Voiceover: > > The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort > with > faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the > operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many delays > in > accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the logic > of > the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used the > VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. I > understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I somehow > enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater > flexibility > without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to > copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor to > be > able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on > relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the > majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to interact > more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the > Mac > Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes > and > selecting items from lists was awkward. > > iPad: > > I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard > and > to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use the > same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I > somehow > thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is > simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a > touch > screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for more > comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator to > get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very > short of my expectations. > > iPhone: > > I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with > it. > Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact with > e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think the > Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, > the > iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of > accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well > be > golden. > > So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring > the > Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also > share > their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've > written > here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have > been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just > remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative > platform for what it is. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5112 (20100513) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu May 13 18:03:34 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:03:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve, I am the only PC user in our office. I get made fun of all the time for not being one of the cool kids. Aside from a worthy learning curve, I have not seriously made a change up to this point because: 1. JAWS may have its quirks, but I have found more than 90 percent of the applications I use are more than 90 percent accessible. Those applications that are not very accessible straight out of the download I have usually found a script or two to rectify the issue. I am worried that with a built-in screen reader I am limited to what the manufacturer deems a core essential. Once I teach myself how to script I imagine I'll be able to extend JAWS beyond its current ability. 2. I have major beef with Freedom Scientific, but I appreciate the updates between major upgrades to address bugs. Updates in Mac do not necessarily mean updates in Voiceover. 3. Price. With Apple you really are tied to a limited variety of laptops. With a PC you can typically shop around and grab a decent system for well below the Mac price range. Now, as my exploration continues I may find these points are minor or maybe even non-existent. The Mac Book Pro I handled did not have the latest update, and so perhaps some of my less favorable observations would have been cleared up, and there is also the matter of the length of time I had to play with the technology. You're not going to fall in love with another operating system in one day. For now I can only say it was most definitely not love at first sight. MS Office is currently not accessible with the Mac, though this is supposed to change later this year. The same is true of Firefox. I understand Google Docs are also supposed to be already accessible with Voiceover and Safari. I can only offer that as hearsay as I did not even think to test this while I was in front of the laptop. I'll write more as I continue exploring. My only pointer up to this point is to find someone who can allow you to use the Mac at your own pace. An Apple store is not the best environment to test out a system. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:51 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac Joe, This is good stuff, and I, for one, really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences. Do you know which version of the operating system you were using? My understanding is that there have been improvements with respect to VoiceOver's method of handling check boxes and such in the latest version, I think 10.7, but don't know the details. >From what I gather, web browsing on the MAC is significantly enough different that it takes time to really understand how to deal with web pages effectively. If I ever get the chance to really spend some time on the MAC, I would probably want to talk to some people experienced with the MAC to find out how they handle certain tasks. I know that there are a few MAC users here as well and hope they chime in. Your point that MACs are different than PC's is a good one and I have found I have to be careful making assumptions. For example, when my daughter got her MAC, she mentioned TextEdit. I assumed that TextEdit was a text editor. This seems like a reasonable assumption given the name, but as I'm sure you already know, it is not. It is a reasonably powerful word processor that is included with the operating system. As far as I can tell, it is a good deal more powerful than WordPad. What do your fellow employees use for word processing? I am told that Open Office works reasonably well with VoiceOver but that Microsoft Word for the MAC does not. I also think that the issue of VoiceOver being included free is something potential buyers have to be careful of as a reason to choose a MAC over a PC. It is included free, there is no doubt of that, and Apple should be commended for what they are doing. However, it appears to me that you still pay a good deal more for a MAC than a PC, and while buying a screen reader for a PC will certainly wipe out the difference, the total cost of each becomes less of an issue in my opinion. You would be very hard pressed to buy a PC with JFW without paying a good deal more than you would pay for a MAC, but buying a PC with one of the less expensive screen readers might be cheaper in some cases and the accessibility you get could be similar to what you get with VoiceOver. One really needs to decide if their interests and/or their environment make using a MAC the way to go. Being able to make such a choice is a very positive step, though, and I am not minimizing that in the least. It is very significant that we now have this option. Thanks again for sharing this information. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 13 May 2010 10:23:38 -0400, Joe Orozco wrote: >Hello, >Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad and >iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions are >very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. >Mac Book Pro: >I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know >that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell >Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a >disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. I >have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. >Voiceover: >The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort with >faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the >operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many delays in >accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the logic of >the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used the >VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. I >understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I somehow >enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater flexibility >without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to >copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor to be >able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on >relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the >majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to interact >more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the Mac >Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes and >selecting items from lists was awkward. >iPad: >I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard and >to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use the >same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I somehow >thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is >simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a touch >screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for more >comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator to >get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very >short of my expectations. >iPhone: >I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with it. >Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact with >e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think the >Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, the >iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of >accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well be >golden. >So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring the >Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also share >their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've written >here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have >been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just >remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative >platform for what it is. >Joe >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >database 5112 (20100513) __________ >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >http://www.eset.com > >_______________________________________________ >nfbcs mailing list >nfbcs at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/steve.ja cobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5112 (20100513) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5112 (20100513) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Thu May 13 18:54:06 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:54:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: <5AC8130FDEE64F3B9FC749AAB494CD6A@userf9b4fa60eb> References: <5AC8130FDEE64F3B9FC749AAB494CD6A@userf9b4fa60eb> Message-ID: Hi, Kerri, Thanks for the update; I'm glad your outing went well. You bring many great questions and thoughts to the list, and i look forward to hearing more about your experiences in the future. Best of luck with your upcoming cane travel adventures! Katie On 5/13/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: > Kerri, > > I thank you for bringing up this issue, since it is something you are > pondering and need to find an acceptable answer. > > First you should, as a 22-year old, be able to travel to and fro on your > own. That means you can grab your cane, approach a car, get in, and stow > your cane, and get to your place of destination. The driver will do their > magic in getting you driven there. > > There is no reason to sight guide from your door to your seat in a car, yet > you will be amazed how many people think this is such a hard job, and takes > oh so much courage, and brain power on your part. > > This part of the trip is clear to me. You know your way, you can visualize > every step of the way onto the car, and you don't need, and in my opinion, > should not accept help. This is where I would be diplomatically independent > at first, then if someone pushed the issue, would turn stubborn. Heck, your > 15-year old brother, or 20-year old cousin, or basically someone of your age > and ability does not take an arm to move about from one known place to > another, do they? I would argue this point whenever you are confident you > can get from point a to point b with ease, and without help. > > Now you get to the movies, and your friend wants to be helpful, or she did > since I am a few days late. You may choose to take an arm ir you can get > from the car to the line, and to the theater with more ease, or you may, if > you want to gain the experience, ask the friend to walk beside you, and > verbally direct you whenever you need to turn right or left, and the rest > you can do. That includes up steps, doors, and yes, the sighted public who > might be wondering why your friend isn't helping you, when in fact she is. > > I take more offers of sighted guide as some independent-minded people would > like, but the key word here is I. I decide what is best for me, not what > others see fit. I find it better to navigate through a restaurant to a table > with friends sighted guide, but I am not shy about getting up to find the > bathroom, or the napkins on my own. > > I take the arm of a friend after getting off the car, and when moving > through Best Buy, but I am also the one asking the sales person the > questions about the products I am interested in buying. > > There are some things people aught to be able to do, like finding and giving > directions, locating a store, restaurant, bus stop, street, etc. The phrase > orientation and mobility sums up what one needs to be doing. Be oriented, > and be mobile. What you do as far as sighted guide will be different from > others, and will progress with time. > > As you put it, one need not be rebellious about it most of the time, but if > you can do the job, and you want to practice walking parking lots, side > walks, navigating through doors, people, tables, aisles, and so on, you > might need to inform your parents and friends that you need the practice, > and that they need to help you try. > > Best luck with it. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > Student, Western Governors University > (617) 744-9716 > Eastern time zone > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kerri Kosten" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel > > >> Hi All: >> >> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >> posts. I really appreciate it! >> >> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >> >> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >> guided and when should I be using my cane? >> >> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >> >> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >> and become independent. >> >> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >> >> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >> home, guide me...everything. >> >> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >> >> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >> let her. >> >> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >> >> How do I handle this with my mother? >> >> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >> >> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >> arm?" >> >> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >> use it sparingly! >> >> Thanks! >> Kerri >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From brileyp at gmail.com Thu May 13 19:17:29 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:17:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac In-Reply-To: <028301caf2bb$4943b2a0$6601a8c0@server> References: <84D3EE8CB2134B9199F601C3DFAFAB69@Rufus> <028301caf2bb$4943b2a0$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <6648CF58-7B32-47F4-800F-2F586C6B4964@gmail.com> What I did before purchase was rent a Mac for a week. That way, I had more than 15 minutes to fall in love. Getting the hang of a new OS and screen reader won't happen in store. Best, Briley On May 13, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hi Joe,' > I really appreciate hearing your observations. I plan on taking a similar Mac product journey soon. > Best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:23 AM > Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac > > >> Hello, >> >> Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad and >> iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions are >> very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. >> >> Mac Book Pro: >> >> I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know >> that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell >> Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a >> disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. I >> have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. >> >> Voiceover: >> >> The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort with >> faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the >> operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many delays in >> accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the logic of >> the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used the >> VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. I >> understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I somehow >> enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater flexibility >> without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to >> copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor to be >> able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on >> relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the >> majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to interact >> more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the Mac >> Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes and >> selecting items from lists was awkward. >> >> iPad: >> >> I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard and >> to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use the >> same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I somehow >> thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is >> simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a touch >> screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for more >> comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator to >> get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very >> short of my expectations. >> >> iPhone: >> >> I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with it. >> Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact with >> e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think the >> Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, the >> iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of >> accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well be >> golden. >> >> So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring the >> Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also share >> their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've written >> here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have >> been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just >> remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative >> platform for what it is. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5112 (20100513) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From CDanielsen at nfb.org Thu May 13 19:58:52 2010 From: CDanielsen at nfb.org (Danielsen, Chris) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:58:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Please post on all NFB list-serves Message-ID: The 2009 National Federation of the Blind Annual Report is Now Available! Take a look back on all of the accomplishments of the National Federation of the Blind in 2009 by reading the newest Annual Report! The 2009 Annual Report is available online as an accessible PDF file (http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/pdf/2009%20Annual%20Report_Accessible.pdf) or a BRF file (http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/brf/2009_NFB_Annual_Report.BRF). Print copies are also available for order from the Independence Market; call (410) 659-9314, extension 2216 now to order your copy. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Thu May 13 22:13:30 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 16:13:30 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: <1EBD7AB573194611A6696C5E05A0E2CF@labarre> Greetings Friends: Ray has had a much better day today. They ahve determined that there is not additional swelling or pressure on the brain and surgery will not be necessary. As for yesterday's seizure, they are not at all uncommon with this type of meningitis. They have eliminated the sedation and Ray seems to be coming around. He has moved his limbs several times today and has actually yawned on occasion. Although he is on the respirator still, he is attempting his own breathing much more often and they are considering taking him off the vent, perhaps tomorrow if he continues to make such good progress. These are all little steps, but they are steps in the right direction. Diane is in good spirits today and she is very grateful for all the thoughts and prayers. Keep them coming because they're making a difference. Thanks, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Fri May 14 00:17:18 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 17:17:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac References: <84D3EE8CB2134B9199F601C3DFAFAB69@Rufus><028301caf2bb$4943b2a0$6601a8c0@server> <6648CF58-7B32-47F4-800F-2F586C6B4964@gmail.com> Message-ID: <02a901caf2fa$d0db9e00$6601a8c0@server> Hi Briley, Where did you rent the Mack? Also thanks for your advice on the Mack models in response to my email. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac > What I did before purchase was rent a Mac for a week. That way, I had more > than 15 minutes to fall in love. Getting the hang of a new OS and screen > reader won't happen in store. > > Best, > Briley > On May 13, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: > >> Hi Joe,' >> I really appreciate hearing your observations. I plan on taking a >> similar Mac product journey soon. >> Best, >> Dennis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National >> Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:23 AM >> Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad >>> and >>> iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions >>> are >>> very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. >>> >>> Mac Book Pro: >>> >>> I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know >>> that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell >>> Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a >>> disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. >>> I >>> have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. >>> >>> Voiceover: >>> >>> The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort >>> with >>> faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the >>> operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many >>> delays in >>> accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the >>> logic of >>> the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used >>> the >>> VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. >>> I >>> understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I >>> somehow >>> enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater >>> flexibility >>> without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to >>> copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor >>> to be >>> able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on >>> relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the >>> majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to >>> interact >>> more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the >>> Mac >>> Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes >>> and >>> selecting items from lists was awkward. >>> >>> iPad: >>> >>> I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard >>> and >>> to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use >>> the >>> same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I >>> somehow >>> thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is >>> simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a >>> touch >>> screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for >>> more >>> comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator >>> to >>> get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very >>> short of my expectations. >>> >>> iPhone: >>> >>> I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with >>> it. >>> Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact >>> with >>> e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think >>> the >>> Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, >>> the >>> iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of >>> accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well >>> be >>> golden. >>> >>> So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring >>> the >>> Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also >>> share >>> their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've >>> written >>> here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have >>> been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just >>> remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative >>> platform for what it is. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5112 (20100513) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From harryhogue at yahoo.com Fri May 14 00:18:29 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 19:18:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Japanese Synthesizer Message-ID: <001b01caf2fa$fb195e50$f14c1af0$@com> Hello all, I ahv E asked about this before, and was given helpful advise, but the synthesizer has sense been deleted from the other computer I was using, and now I cannot find where I purchased it before. I want to say it was nextup.com, but I cannot find it anymore. I am looking for something to work with Windows Vist and JAWS 9.0. Thanks, guys. Talking with someone practicing Japanese over here and need to be able to read Kanji. From brileyp at gmail.com Fri May 14 02:48:12 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 21:48:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac In-Reply-To: <02a901caf2fa$d0db9e00$6601a8c0@server> References: <84D3EE8CB2134B9199F601C3DFAFAB69@Rufus><028301caf2bb$4943b2a0$6601a8c0@server> <6648CF58-7B32-47F4-800F-2F586C6B4964@gmail.com> <02a901caf2fa$d0db9e00$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: I rented it from the Mac Authority. And no problem. I'm no expert, but I like to share what I know. Briley On May 13, 2010, at 7:17 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hi Briley, > Where did you rent the Mack? Also thanks for your advice on the Mack models in response to my email. > Best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 12:17 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac > > >> What I did before purchase was rent a Mac for a week. That way, I had more than 15 minutes to fall in love. Getting the hang of a new OS and screen reader won't happen in store. >> >> Best, >> Briley >> On May 13, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: >> >>> Hi Joe,' >>> I really appreciate hearing your observations. I plan on taking a similar Mac product journey soon. >>> Best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'" ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 7:23 AM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book Pro, iPad and >>>> iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before. These impressions are >>>> very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user. >>>> >>>> Mac Book Pro: >>>> >>>> I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic. I don't know >>>> that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell >>>> Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a >>>> disappointment in the slightest. Very solid hardware and sleek design. I >>>> have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable. >>>> >>>> Voiceover: >>>> >>>> The speech is excellent. It is very human-sounding and did not distort with >>>> faster speeds. Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the >>>> operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too many delays in >>>> accessing what I needed. Where my admiration fell short was in the logic of >>>> the command structure. When navigating in Safari, for example, I used the >>>> VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by hyperlink. I >>>> understand there are different modes to navigate web pages, but I somehow >>>> enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with greater flexibility >>>> without the need to make adjustments. I did not much care for having to >>>> copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text processor to be >>>> able to tell certain formatting attributes. Finally, I was not keen on >>>> relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the >>>> majority of all keystrokes. On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable to interact >>>> more with a larger percentage of my keyboard. Certain keystrokes on the Mac >>>> Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand. Activating check boxes and >>>> selecting items from lists was awkward. >>>> >>>> iPad: >>>> >>>> I wasn't a fan. The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical keyboard and >>>> to me just seems much more comfortable. Both the iPad and iPhone use the >>>> same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses. Disappointing. I somehow >>>> thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but perhaps this is >>>> simply processor capacity? To me the iPad felt like a netbook with a touch >>>> screen. I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth keyboard for more >>>> comfortable typing. Portability seems to me the main driving motivator to >>>> get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very >>>> short of my expectations. >>>> >>>> iPhone: >>>> >>>> I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to play with it. >>>> Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and interact with >>>> e-mail. I don't know that I appreciated the size of the device, think the >>>> Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my hand. Yet, the >>>> iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of >>>> accessibility. If you can figure out the touch screen, it may very well be >>>> golden. >>>> >>>> So there you are, very basic impressions. I plan to continue exploring the >>>> Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch will also share >>>> their experiences moving from a PC environment. If any of what I've written >>>> here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may well have >>>> been my own ignorance. If you do play around with Mac products, just >>>> remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC. Accept the alternative >>>> platform for what it is. >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >>>> database 5112 (20100513) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca Fri May 14 03:06:30 2010 From: sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca (sarah.jevnikar at utoronto.ca) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 23:06:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel In-Reply-To: References: <20100513012810.12815.88001@web2> Message-ID: <20100513230630.h309mv0bkk4g4w0g@webmail.utoronto.ca> Kerri, I am so happy your outing went well. I wish you many more fun outings in the future, and please feel free to ask any nummber of questions you have in the future! Sarah Quoting Kerri Kosten : > Hi All: > > Just wanted to update about tonight! > > I went with my friend and it was a lot of fun! > > I just took your advice and took her arm and used my cane on the other > side. This really helped actually, and made me very independent in a > sense, because the cane came to steps, curbs, and cars that were on my > other side and my friend didn't have to tell me once to step up or > down or anything like that! I explained to her what the cane did, and > the first couple of times it came across an obsticle or came to a step > up or curb she was able to see how it worked and how it helped me...I > think she was impressed. > > By doing this, I definitely understood what you all have been telling > me...there is a time and place to follow and use the cane and be > totally independent but with a friend many times it looks better, and > in my opinion at least gives them a better impression of blindness if > you just take their arm and use the cane on the other side. This way > you don't have to struggle to concentrate on following their > directions and you can have a conversation with them but at the same > time not be totally depending on them and looking helpless. > > I have not been able to try it much yet, but I do think I could do > this by myself if I had to, and wwhen I do go to the movies or mall or > somewhere by myself where it is appropriate to do so I will use my > cane and just follow or explore! > > Thanks for all the help/suggestions/support. It helped me understand > things a lot better and I believe I now understand the role of > independence a lot more! > Kerri > > On 5/12/10, Jedi wrote: >> Kerri, >> >> It sounds like you've got the hang of things. However, I would advise >> you to make your decisions based on your own comfort first before >> worrying about anyone else's. Your friend might be uncomfortable giving >> you directions at first, but that's no reason to simply take an arm. >> She'll be uncomfortable for a while until she gets the hang of giving >> verbal instructions. It will also take some time for you to get >> comfortable receiving and acting on them. You will probaby find that >> your comfort with independent travel will increase the more you do it. >> >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> >> >> Original message: >>> Hey All: >> >>> Thanks for the posts again and the support! >> >>> I think I will just take all of your advice and use my judgment. I >>> think I'll nice tell my friend that if she doesn't mind I would like >>> to try to use my cane and walk beside her and she can give me >>> directions but that if she feels uncomfortable at any time or the >>> restaurant is really noisy and following her does create more of a >>> scene than necessary I'll take her arm. Same for the movie >>> theater...if she is cool with me walking beside her with my cane while >>> she gives me directions and she is comfortable and things go smoothly >>> and it's not causing a huge scene or she isn't say shouting loudly in >>> order for me to hear her directions/follow her than I'll take an arm. >> >>> I think you are right...it's a judgment call but now it seems simple >>> to me...use the cane when it is comfortable and the process is >>> unobtrusive and does not cause a scene but if I'm in a huge hurry or >>> there is too much noise than grab an arm! >> >>> I am going to try doing some independent travel this weekend to a >>> couple of places to practice more of my cane travel. >> >>> Thanks again! >>> Kerri >> >>> Kerri >> >>> On 5/12/10, Ashley Bramlett wrote: >>>> Carrie, >> >>>> I am still in my 20's and struggle with this question. When I was your >>>> age >>>> I was in the middle of college and just starting to make sighted friends >>>> who >>>> seemed comfortable with me. I have tunnel vision, so if I'm going >>>> anywhere >>>> alone I need my cane. >> >>>> I don't think your problems fitting in with sighted people was just due >>>> to >>>> your travel skills. It was likely other factors such as personality, >>>> lack >>>> of common interests, and perhaps dress. In public school I found >>>> students >>>> were very kliqely. If you did not have interests and dress like the >>>> klique, >>>> you were not in this close group, the klique. Students were often in >>>> their >>>> own world and would not accept someone different. Did you go to a >>>> diverse >>>> city school? Well I did, with thousands of students. I'm sure others >>>> observed this too. The Asian students hung together; the Latinos hung >>>> together; the choir group was together; the football group was together. >>>> Why is that? Well because they have something in common such as >>>> language, >>>> culture or interest. I'm sure everyone has observed this in large >>>> institutions such as school. >>>> So yes your independence was a factor but don't think it was the only >>>> factor. I also was guided by my mother or family the majority of the >>>> time, >>>> but not in school of course. >> >>>> If you have been completely blind, surely you recieved some O and M >>>> service >>>> through school. I know I did, but it was not enough. But it showed me >>>> the >>>> basics to get started. I only saw the O and M teacher a few times a >>>> month, >>>> so of course we could not cover too much. >> >>>> Now as to the situation with your friend, do have fun anbe friendly. Its >>>> a >>>> judgement call on your end. I think accepting assistance in some >>>> situations is totally appropriate. So if its convenient for your friend >>>> to >>>> pick you up, you can accept it; she would probably do the same for other >>>> friends without cars. I agree with Katie that taking a person's arm in >>>> unfamiliar places makes it >>>> easier to have conversations. >>>> I think sighted guide is fine in restaurants and movie theaters. This is >>>> because restaurants can be noisy with narrow spaces between tables. You >>>> will make a scene if your friend has to tell you directions and talk to >>>> you >>>> to get to your table. Next in the movie theater that is a quiet place >>>> and >>>> I'm sure you and your friend wish to sit together. So just take her arm >>>> and >>>> she can lead you to a seat. >> >>>> Other open places with friends or family it may be more appropriate to >>>> follow them and use your cane. This may be a mall or park or some other >>>> trip like going to a museum. But some places either due to noise or the >>>> quietness it just sounds better to me to go sighted guide so you don't >>>> disrupt activity. >> >>>> I assume you live at home still. If so that's difficult to create >>>> independent opportunities. If your mom is like mine she is protective >>>> and >>>> does not have confidence in my abilities. I know I don't have a good >>>> sense >>>> of direction, but practice will help things. Maybe plan an outing alone >>>> such as to the mall. You said in another post you were going to a mall >>>> and >>>> bar. >>>> That is a good opportunity. Go to a mall or maybe a strip shopping >>>> center. >>>> Have a goal to find so many stores. >>>> If there is a special occasion in your family such as a birthday or >>>> anniversary do some research where you can find a particular gift or >>>> card. >>>> You can either do this online or by calling stores to find out what they >>>> sell. Then plan an independent trip to those stores and buy a present. >>>> Your family member will be impressed when you present it to them. >> >>>> as for your mom, I have the same problem and wish I had a better >>>> solution. >>>> All I can think of is to talk to her. Be nice but say now that you got a >>>> new cane and you are getting older you would like to walk independently. >>>> Tell her you'll get better with practice. >> >>>> HTH, >>>> Ashley >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Kerri Kosten" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 12:56 AM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] questions about cane travel and independent travel >> >> >>>>> Hi All: >> >>>>> First, I wanted to say thanks for all your help/answers to my other >>>>> posts. I really appreciate it! >> >>>>> I have another independent travel/cane travel question. >> >>>>> Basically, if you have not had training when is it appropriate to be >>>>> guided and when should I be using my cane? >> >>>>> Before I got my nfb cane and really became interested in the NFB, I >>>>> was guided everywhere all the time. I had one of those short heavy >>>>> folding canes and would bring it along but not use it. I have since >>>>> learned that guiding me everywhere (I am totally blind) was definitely >>>>> the wrong approach and was much more damaging than helpful. >> >>>>> I ordered and received an NFB cane a few months ago and really like >>>>> it. However, it is still hard to not use sighted guide...my mother >>>>> wants to guide me all the time, and I feel like I have to fight and >>>>> battle to use my cane which isn't right! Though I don't mind being >>>>> guided in certain situations or if I am in a hurry, I think it is very >>>>> important to use it sparingly. Though guiding is definitely easier, if >>>>> I don't begin to use my cane and resist the guiding I'll never learn >>>>> and become independent. >> >>>>> In the past I have had a lot of trouble making friends and fitting in >>>>> with sighted people. I used to not understand why this is, but now I >>>>> really believe it was because of my lack of independence as a blind >>>>> person. For example, if a person wanted to do something they would >>>>> pick me up and drive me back home no matter how convient or inconvient >>>>> it may be for them; I didn't know how to use cabs. They would of >>>>> course always guide me everywhere, sometimes I believe I brought the >>>>> cane but never used it. If we ate at a restaurant and there was a tray >>>>> they would carry it to and from the table when we got the food or I >>>>> was finished. I would ocationly carry the drink but that was it. When >>>>> I look back at all of it, I think it really took a toll on the person >>>>> because it made it so that hanging out with me was more of a >>>>> responsibility/chore than just going to get coffee with a friend. >> >>>>> I have a chance to hang out with another sighted person tomorrow. I >>>>> have never hung out with this girl before. I don't want to be >>>>> rebelliously independent or be a pain/make it an unpleasant experience >>>>> with my display of independence but I don't want it to be like it used >>>>> to where this girl has to do everything for me, pick me up, take me >>>>> home, guide me...everything. >> >>>>> We are planning to go to out to eat and to a movie. >> >>>>> I have already offered to meet her there, but she says she does not >>>>> mind picking me up at all so if it's truly no inconvience to her I may >>>>> let her. >> >>>>> But, once we get to the restaurant and then later to hte movies do I >>>>> follow her and use my cane or let her guide me? >> >>>>> How do I handle this with my mother? >> >>>>> As I sadid before it's certainly easier to take an arm but if I do it >>>>> all the time I never learn to use my cane. >> >>>>> I want to do what's age-appropriate. I am 22...so do I think of it as >>>>> "Would a sighted 22-year-old follow this person or would they take an >>>>> arm?" >> >>>>> I am not one of those people who just does what the NFB says all the >>>>> time...but cane travel and independent travel is very important to me >>>>> and I want to become as good and efficient with it as possible. While >>>>> I believe guiding is good in some situations I want to be careful and >>>>> use it sparingly! >> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> Kerri >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sarah.jevnikar%40utoronto.ca > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Fri May 14 22:13:47 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 18:13:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac Message-ID: <128F3EC2-004F-4400-B4FB-EBA0E4D22E8D@mac.com> Actually, you can navigate with quickmode. Press both your arrows, then use right and left to navigate. Also, press vo keys u for a menu to jump from section to section that is exactly like the JAWS one, except you can jump by links, headings, and frames. Jorge From fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com Sat May 15 01:37:58 2010 From: fantasyfanatic01 at gmail.com (Franandah Damstra) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 21:37:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Japanese Synthesizer In-Reply-To: <001b01caf2fa$fb195e50$f14c1af0$@com> References: <001b01caf2fa$fb195e50$f14c1af0$@com> Message-ID: Well, most blind Japanese don't use Jaws. Many use a screen reader called "PC Talker". I've found a few Japanese voices, but I cannot remember where I have gotten them from. I will search around and ask some of my Japanese friends and, hopefully, get back to you. ~Franandah On 5/13/10, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello all, > > I ahv > > E asked about this before, and was given helpful advise, but the synthesizer > has sense been deleted from the other computer I was using, and now I cannot > find where I purchased it before. I want to say it was nextup.com, but I > cannot find it anymore. I am looking for something to work with Windows > Vist and JAWS 9.0. > > > > Thanks, guys. Talking with someone practicing Japanese over here and need > to be able to read Kanji. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Sat May 15 02:36:29 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 21:36:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Robert J. Sawyer, this week on The Guerra Show Message-ID: > >Author Robert J. Sawyer: Hugo, Nebula, and >Campbell Memorial Award-winning Science Fiction Writer is my guest >on The Guerra Show, Sunday, May 16, 2010. > >Sawyer is the author of WWW:Wake >and WWW:Watch, >which are a must-read, if not for the ability to capture how someone >with a vision loss utilizes both speech and Braille to access the >internet, but the ability to show realistically how someone who has >no sight copes in everyday society. > >These books are available from: National >Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped > >and >Robert >J. Sawyer on Audible.com > >Tune in starting at 9 PM Eastern, and bring on those questions for >this amazing friendly author. > > >"The Guerra Show" >Stephen Guerra, Host > > > >Contact me at: > > > >Send email to the Inbox of The Guerra Show > > > >Call in live to speak with Stephen at: >(866) 739-3668 > > > >Listen Live starting at 9 PM >Eastern on ACBRadio to The Guerra Show > >click here to follow "The Guerra >Show" on Twitter > > > >Check out the "The Guerra Show" Blog at: >The Guerra Show Blog > >check out "The Guerra Show" Web Site at: >The Guerra show David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sat May 15 03:20:50 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 22:20:50 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Japanese Synthesizer In-Reply-To: References: <001b01caf2fa$fb195e50$f14c1af0$@com> Message-ID: <000001caf3dd$9f153690$dd3fa3b0$@com> Hello, thank you for your assistance. I look forward to hearing anything you may know; I plan to visit Japan in December, so I look forward to being able to read Japanese/learning Japanese Braille (resources welcome. Thank you. Harry Hogue -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Franandah Damstra Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:38 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Japanese Synthesizer Well, most blind Japanese don't use Jaws. Many use a screen reader called "PC Talker". I've found a few Japanese voices, but I cannot remember where I have gotten them from. I will search around and ask some of my Japanese friends and, hopefully, get back to you. ~Franandah On 5/13/10, Harry Hogue wrote: > Hello all, > > I ahv > > E asked about this before, and was given helpful advise, but the synthesizer > has sense been deleted from the other computer I was using, and now I cannot > find where I purchased it before. I want to say it was nextup.com, but I > cannot find it anymore. I am looking for something to work with Windows > Vist and JAWS 9.0. > > > > Thanks, guys. Talking with someone practicing Japanese over here and need > to be able to read Kanji. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/fantasyfanatic01%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat May 15 20:51:06 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 13:51:06 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB Annual report now available References: <326FDA730E434F8B8F4091D6E13A00E5@DDTM62C1> Message-ID: > > The 2009 National Federation of > the Blind Annual Report is Now Available! > > Take a look back on all of the accomplishments of the National > Federation of the Blind in 2009 by reading the newest Annual Report! > The 2009 Annual Report is available online as an accessible PDF file > (http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/pdf/2009%20Annual%20Report_Accessible.pdf) > or a BRF file > (http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/brf/2009_NFB_Annual_Report.BRF). > Print copies are also available for order from the Independence > Market; call (410) 659-9314, extension 2216 now to order your copy. > > _______________________________________________ From catherine.1966 at yahoo.com Sat May 15 21:29:19 2010 From: catherine.1966 at yahoo.com (Catherine Newman) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 14:29:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <534135.60657.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://www.oe6.life-health-co.com/b.php From marrie12 at gmail.com Sat May 15 23:19:17 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 16:19:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> Message-ID: <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 stopover in Chicago. The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled check of the plane. She panicked in the plane, calling for help. After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news stories later, she finally got one. "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said sorry." From davidb521 at gmail.com Sun May 16 00:20:12 2010 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 19:20:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4bef3a3f.03ea960a.6506.ffffb40e@mx.google.com> How ridiculous. Well, some blind people are that dependent on those around them that this sort of thing could happen. david -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM To: nabs list list Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 stopover in Chicago. The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled check of the plane. She panicked in the plane, calling for help. After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news stories later, she finally got one. "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said sorry." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun May 16 01:17:14 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even if you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they do not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sarah Alawami Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM To: nabs list list Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 stopover in Chicago. The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled check of the plane. She panicked in the plane, calling for help. After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news stories later, she finally got one. "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said sorry." _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Sun May 16 01:33:17 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 18:33:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> Hello Sarah and all, I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too quickly. Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and sometimes I don't. If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > > Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > > United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who > was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > > Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went > public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 > stopover in Chicago. > > The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a > connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten > minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled > check of the plane. > > She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > > After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the > promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news > stories later, she finally got one. > > "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where > she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said > sorry." > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun May 16 02:25:07 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:25:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <55ED0491672F4EB7A9D8574BF8E0EF07@Serene> I agree with Darrel. Although the teen ideally should've tried to get off the plane by herself, ideally is the operative word. If I were flying alone, I probably wouldn't even know which way to turn once I got off the plane. I wouldn't just sit there, but I might also need help. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > Hello Sarah and all, > > I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too > quickly. > > Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I > wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and > sometimes I don't. > > If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly > does have a very legitimate complaint here. > > We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide > ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. > > As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due > diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > > On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >> April 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >> unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >> the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >> where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 16 03:07:17 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:07:17 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> Message-ID: <28D61EB3-25AF-4679-B0E6-978A7DDB5493@gmail.com> Abandoned? Was she really not paying attention? She couldn't get up and find the way out? I know I'm sounding mean, (perhaps fueled by a weekend with family), but really? Is my annoyance completely unwarranted? Briley On May 15, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > > Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > > United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who > was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > > Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went > public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 > stopover in Chicago. > > The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a > connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten > minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled > check of the plane. > > She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > > After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the > promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news > stories later, she finally got one. > > "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where > she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said > sorry." > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun May 16 03:15:11 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:15:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become indignant for all over one person's actions. There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair to point fingers. Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs sighted help in everything. We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > Hello Sarah and all, > > I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too quickly. > > Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and sometimes I don't. > > If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > > We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. > > As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > > On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 16 03:20:08 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:20:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <55ED0491672F4EB7A9D8574BF8E0EF07@Serene> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <55ED0491672F4EB7A9D8574BF8E0EF07@Serene> Message-ID: Once getting off the plane is a different issue. She just sat there... I get getting assistance after getting off. But if she was sitting there and no one came up to her, go looking. Be assertive. Don't just sit there. Briley On May 15, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Serena wrote: > I agree with Darrel. Although the teen ideally should've tried to get off the plane by herself, ideally is the operative word. If I were flying alone, I probably wouldn't even know which way to turn once I got off the plane. I wouldn't just sit there, but I might also need help. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > >> Hello Sarah and all, >> >> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too quickly. >> >> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and sometimes I don't. >> >> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >> >> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. >> >> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >> >> >> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun May 16 03:51:03 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:51:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <55ED0491672F4EB7A9D8574BF8E0EF07@Serene> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <55ED0491672F4EB7A9D8574BF8E0EF07@Serene> Message-ID: Listers, Let this be an example of why we need organizations like the NFB. If this were a perfect world then she would have had the skills to get herself off the plane, the airline attendants wouldn't have forgotten her, and all blind people wouldn't look useless because of this bad press. Needless to say, this is not a perfect world. There are countless blind people who still need training in alternative techniques and their are countless numbers of sighted people who need to learn that just because we're blind doesn't mean we can't think or walk. Let a story like this empower you instead of discourage you.The NFB is working to ensure through training and education that something like this doesn't have to happen anymore. Best Wishes, Domonique On 5/15/10, Serena wrote: > I agree with Darrel. Although the teen ideally should've tried to get off > the plane by herself, ideally is the operative word. If I were flying > alone, I probably wouldn't even know which way to turn once I got off the > plane. I wouldn't just sit there, but I might also need help. > > Serena > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darrell Shandrow" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind > teen > > >> Hello Sarah and all, >> >> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >> quickly. >> >> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >> sometimes I don't. >> >> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly >> >> does have a very legitimate complaint here. >> >> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide >> >> ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. >> >> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >> >> >> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>> April 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>> unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>> the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>> where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com Sun May 16 04:01:03 2010 From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (Nimer Jaber) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 23:01:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <28D61EB3-25AF-4679-B0E6-978A7DDB5493@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <28D61EB3-25AF-4679-B0E6-978A7DDB5493@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4BEF6DFF.4050806@gmail.com> Maybe she was sleep? I don't know why, but something about this whole thing sounds weird. Even if the air line employees forgot her, which I doubt, what about other passengers? Thanks Nimer J Briley Pollard wrote: > Abandoned? Was she really not paying attention? She couldn't get up and find the way out? > > I know I'm sounding mean, (perhaps fueled by a weekend with family), but really? Is my annoyance completely unwarranted? > > Briley > On May 15, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun May 16 04:07:25 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 23:07:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <55ED0491672F4EB7A9D8574BF8E0EF07@Serene> Message-ID: <1B345643-04B7-45E5-99B7-96C2FEA3C22A@gmail.com> Not everyone is assertive as some of you may be. When i was younger, and before i'd known the NFB, i probably would have done the same, because i'm shy and don't like to draw attention to myself. On May 15, 2010, at 10:20 PM, Briley Pollard wrote: > Once getting off the plane is a different issue. She just sat there... I get getting assistance after getting off. But if she was sitting there and no one came up to her, go looking. Be assertive. Don't just sit there. > > Briley > On May 15, 2010, at 9:25 PM, Serena wrote: > >> I agree with Darrel. Although the teen ideally should've tried to get off the plane by herself, ideally is the operative word. If I were flying alone, I probably wouldn't even know which way to turn once I got off the plane. I wouldn't just sit there, but I might also need help. >> >> Serena >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 9:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> >>> Hello Sarah and all, >>> >>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too quickly. >>> >>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and sometimes I don't. >>> >>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>> >>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. >>> >>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>> >>> >>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>> >>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>> >>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>> >>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>> >>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>> >>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>>> check of the plane. >>>> >>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>> >>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>> >>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>> sorry." >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun May 16 04:41:33 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 21:41:33 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <039801caf4b2$0fb88f30$6601a8c0@server> Hello everyone, I agree with Darrell. In addition to the points Darrell raised, let's also remember that according to the story the plane door was closed. I don't know that most people would know how to open the plane door, but as a mechanical engineer I can promise you that they are designed to be difficult to open. Moreover, if you did manage to open the door, it is possible that the moveable tunnel would already have been moved away from the plane in which case it would be 20 or more feet down to the ground. Even if the tunnel is still in place it would not be wise to enter it if airline personnel do not know you are there, because they could choose that moment to begin folding it up with you inside, which might prove fatal. Given the information the passenger had available to her I think she made a wise decision. Best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darrell Shandrow" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > Hello Sarah and all, > > I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too > quickly. > > Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I > wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and > sometimes I don't. > > If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly > does have a very legitimate complaint here. > > We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide > ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. > > As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due > diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > > On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >> April 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >> unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >> the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >> where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Sun May 16 05:26:30 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:26:30 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Hello Domonique, I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover is more able to handle such pages. I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you when you have a moment. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac > Dennis, > With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and > want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would > be best. I hope this helps! > > Domonique > > On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >> Hello Mac users, >> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is >> the >> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that >> the >> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode >> and >> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" >> back >> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward >> to >> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >> Best, >> Dennis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jorge Paez" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >> >> >>> Hi Joe: >>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>> results. >>> >>> Your questions are addressed below: >>> >>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility >>> changed >>> in >>> terms of the screen reader? >>> >>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>> usability. >>> >>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not >>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, >>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>> >>> If you had to >>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >>> know >>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>> have over the applications in your computer. >>> >>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs >>> use >>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>> makes Office documents readable? >>> >>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's >>> version >>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >>> inaccessible. >>> >>> >>> Complete control. >>> >>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>> >>> >>> >>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the >>> Mac) >>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy >>> iWork. >>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>> inaccessible. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its >>> quirks >>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>> great >>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>> wondering >>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>> >>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you >>> won't >>> >>> use that. >>> >>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>> >>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>> don't >>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>> >>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>> >>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>> >>> >>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>> >>> >>> Hope that helps. >>> Jorge >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun May 16 06:07:20 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 23:07:20 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: <46C7D733-D206-4914-864F-6A537A34DBE5@gmail.com> But if you are a student you can I think get it for $39. I've contacted them about it but they have not gotten back to me yet. On May 15, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Domonique, > I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. > > Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover is more able to handle such pages. > > I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you when you have a moment. > > All the best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac > > >> Dennis, >> With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and >> want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would >> be best. I hope this helps! >> >> Domonique >> >> On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >>> Hello Mac users, >>> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >>> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is the >>> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that the >>> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >>> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode and >>> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >>> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" back >>> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward to >>> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >>> Best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >>> >>> >>>> Hi Joe: >>>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>>> results. >>>> >>>> Your questions are addressed below: >>>> >>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed >>>> in >>>> terms of the screen reader? >>>> >>>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >>>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>>> usability. >>>> >>>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not >>>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, >>>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>>> >>>> If you had to >>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >>>> know >>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>> >>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>> >>>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version >>>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >>>> inaccessible. >>>> >>>> >>>> Complete control. >>>> >>>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) >>>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. >>>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>>> inaccessible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>>> great >>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>>> wondering >>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>> >>>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't >>>> >>>> use that. >>>> >>>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >>>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>>> >>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>>> don't >>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>> >>>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >>>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>>> >>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>>> >>>> >>>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun May 16 06:08:24 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 23:08:24 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4bef3a3f.03ea960a.6506.ffffb40e@mx.google.com> References: <4bef3a3f.03ea960a.6506.ffffb40e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <893D3F94-2D03-4C29-A8FB-9B15179221AB@gmail.com> I used to be but I changed after my first convention. I do get an escort but only after I exit the plain. On May 15, 2010, at 5:20 PM, David wrote: > How ridiculous. Well, some blind people are that dependent on those around > them that this sort of thing could happen. > david > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM > To: nabs list list > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind > teen > > I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that > be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and > get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > > Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > > United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who > was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > > Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went > public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 > stopover in Chicago. > > The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a > connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten > minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled > check of the plane. > > She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > > After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the > promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news > stories later, she finally got one. > > "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where > she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said > sorry." > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From marrie12 at gmail.com Sun May 16 06:12:16 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 23:12:16 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <28D61EB3-25AF-4679-B0E6-978A7DDB5493@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <28D61EB3-25AF-4679-B0E6-978A7DDB5493@gmail.com> Message-ID: Agreed. She should have known where the front of the plain was by the sound of the motor. After that she could have asked for help in getting to the gate. I think some serious training is needed to get her independence. That has helped me tremendously. Ok maybe not my spelling. lol. On May 15, 2010, at 8:07 PM, Briley Pollard wrote: > Abandoned? Was she really not paying attention? She couldn't get up and find the way out? > > I know I'm sounding mean, (perhaps fueled by a weekend with family), but really? Is my annoyance completely unwarranted? > > Briley > On May 15, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From jess28 at samobile.net Sun May 16 10:17:14 2010 From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 06:17:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Message-ID: <20100516101714.22877.42019@web3> Also, You guys aren't keeping in mind that she might have been also still considered an uncompanied miner even though she is eighteen years. I used to fly as an uncompanied miner when I would come back to the east coast from Salt Lake City Utah for the Summer and During Christmas Time. Jessica -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 16 13:38:13 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 08:38:13 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Hi! Voiceover does not work with flash. However, Java works just fine, and I rarely have incidents of the browser crashing. If it does, a little dialogue box pops up asking if you want to restore the session, which reopens everything that was open. Also, if you shut down your computer, restart the browser, there is an option in a menu which allows you to restore your last session. Navigating around the web took the most getting used too, but now I'm just as fast as I was on a Windows machine with Jaws. Briley On May 16, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Domonique, > I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. > > Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover is more able to handle such pages. > > I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you when you have a moment. > > All the best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac > > >> Dennis, >> With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and >> want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would >> be best. I hope this helps! >> >> Domonique >> >> On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >>> Hello Mac users, >>> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >>> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is the >>> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that the >>> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >>> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode and >>> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >>> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" back >>> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward to >>> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >>> Best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >>> >>> >>>> Hi Joe: >>>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>>> results. >>>> >>>> Your questions are addressed below: >>>> >>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed >>>> in >>>> terms of the screen reader? >>>> >>>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >>>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>>> usability. >>>> >>>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not >>>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, >>>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>>> >>>> If you had to >>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >>>> know >>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>> >>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>> >>>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version >>>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >>>> inaccessible. >>>> >>>> >>>> Complete control. >>>> >>>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) >>>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. >>>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>>> inaccessible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>>> great >>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>>> wondering >>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>> >>>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't >>>> >>>> use that. >>>> >>>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >>>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>>> >>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>>> don't >>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>> >>>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >>>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>>> >>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>>> >>>> >>>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 16 13:39:59 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 08:39:59 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <28D61EB3-25AF-4679-B0E6-978A7DDB5493@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8BA1A510-72A2-46FE-99B5-70462FAB243B@gmail.com> Not to mention that the seats are facing forward...towards the door. This girl is 18 with no additional disabilities as I understand it. I'm not judging her, and let's remember how the media likes to play up blindness. But instead of apologizing to the poor blind girl, someone should be offering her some training. Briley On May 16, 2010, at 1:12 AM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > Agreed. She should have known where the front of the plain was by the sound of the motor. After that she could have asked for help in getting to the gate. I think some serious training is needed to get her independence. That has helped me tremendously. Ok maybe not my spelling. lol. > On May 15, 2010, at 8:07 PM, Briley Pollard wrote: > >> Abandoned? Was she really not paying attention? She couldn't get up and find the way out? >> >> I know I'm sounding mean, (perhaps fueled by a weekend with family), but really? Is my annoyance completely unwarranted? >> >> Briley >> On May 15, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 16 13:47:21 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 08:47:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> Message-ID: <6A0F3CDB-A045-4621-996F-62AEA152D334@gmail.com> My fear is also that because of this, the next time I fly, I'm going to be harassed more than I already am. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I appreciate one or two offers of help to find my gate or my seat, but grabbing my arm and insisting that your job is to help me because I'm blind and must not know where I'm going, (yes this has happened quite a few times), is ridiculous. This kind of story is going to perpetuate the image that blind people are helpless and can't even get off of a plane by themselves. It is frustrating to me. I don't know this girl personally, so nothing of what I say is meant to be taken that way. But I'd be really embarrassed if this story was published about me. Briley On May 15, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: > This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even if > you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of > course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they do > not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM > To: nabs list list > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind > teen > > I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that > be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and > get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > > Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > > United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who > was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > > Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went > public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 > stopover in Chicago. > > The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a > connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten > minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled > check of the plane. > > She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > > After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the > promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news > stories later, she finally got one. > > "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where > she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said > sorry." > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From brileyp at gmail.com Sun May 16 14:39:03 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 09:39:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> Valory, Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not acceptable. Briley On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become indignant for all over one person's actions. > > There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair to point fingers. > > Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs sighted help in everything. > > We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > > Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > > But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > > On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > >> Hello Sarah and all, >> >> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too quickly. >> >> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and sometimes I don't. >> >> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >> >> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. >> >> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >> >> >> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From gera1027 at gmail.com Sun May 16 15:31:23 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 10:31:23 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blindteen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <00b301caf50c$d92a2130$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> I would have taken out my cane and tried finding my way out; surely someone from the passengers would see me and ask for help! Gerardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valerie Gibson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blindteen I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become indignant for all over one person's actions. There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair to point fingers. Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs sighted help in everything. We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > Hello Sarah and all, > > I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too > quickly. > > Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I > wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and > sometimes I don't. > > If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she certainly > does have a very legitimate complaint here. > > We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have wide > ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must cope. > > As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due > diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > > On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >> April 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >> unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >> the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >> where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From davidb521 at gmail.com Sun May 16 15:46:44 2010 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 10:46:44 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblind teen In-Reply-To: <20100516101714.22877.42019@web3> Message-ID: <4bf01369.074c640a.638a.ffff871d@mx.google.com> How would that be true? I'm not sure I quite understand how she would be an unaccompanied minor at that age, unless they make exceptionse with people who have disabilities. I was 16 and did not fly as an unaccompanied minor, but I flew Southwest. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jessica Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:17 AM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblind teen Also, You guys aren't keeping in mind that she might have been also still considered an uncompanied miner even though she is eighteen years. I used to fly as an uncompanied miner when I would come back to the east coast from Salt Lake City Utah for the Summer and During Christmas Time. Jessica -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com Sun May 16 16:48:11 2010 From: william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com (William ODonnell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 09:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <4BEF6DFF.4050806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <625642.73542.qm@web30902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I feel that we are only hearing a small part of the story. Unless this individual had both a visual and cognitive disability preventing her from safely leaving or asking for assistance, much information is missing about the other passengers and lack of assistance. I have flown many times and as soon as my cane or dog is visible, I have many people who ask me if I need help both passengers and flight attendants. --- On Sun, 5/16/10, Nimer Jaber wrote: > From: Nimer Jaber > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 12:01 AM > Maybe she was sleep? > > I don't know why, but something about this whole thing > sounds weird. > Even if the air line employees forgot her, which I doubt, > what about > other passengers? > > Thanks > Nimer J > > Briley Pollard wrote: > > Abandoned? Was she really not paying attention? She > couldn't get up and find the way out? > > > > I know I'm sounding mean, (perhaps fueled by a weekend > with family), but really? Is my annoyance completely > unwarranted? > > > > Briley > > On May 15, 2010, at 6:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > > > >    > >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by > her self. How hard can that be? just  get off and turn > right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and get out and > then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >> > >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >> > >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >> > >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman > from Vancouver Island who > >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >> > >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines > this week after she went > >> public about being forgotten in an empty United > Airlines plane on an April 7 > >> stopover in Chicago. > >> > >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants > to escort her to a > >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the > plane door seal shut. Ten > >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to > find her on an unscheduled > >> check of the plane. > >> > >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >> > >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a > $250 airline voucher and the > >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight > and a series of news > >> stories later, she finally got one. > >> > >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from > Jacksonville, Fla., where > >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count > how many times they said > >> sorry." > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> nabs-l mailing list > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get > your account info for nabs-l: > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>      > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com > >    > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/william.odonnell1%40yahoo.com > From serenacucco at verizon.net Sun May 16 17:10:11 2010 From: serenacucco at verizon.net (Serena) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:10:11 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblind teen References: <4bf01369.074c640a.638a.ffff871d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Some airlines make acceptions for people with disabilities. When I flew to LCB for the Buddy and even the STEP programs, I was considered an unaccompanied minor ... That was the only way I'd be given an escort. Serena ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblind teen > How would that be true? I'm not sure I quite understand how she would be > an > unaccompanied minor at that age, unless they make exceptionse with people > who have disabilities. I was 16 and did not fly as an unaccompanied minor, > but I flew Southwest. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Jessica > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:17 AM > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for > forgettingblind > teen > > Also, You guys aren't keeping in mind that she might have been also > still considered an uncompanied miner even though she is eighteen > years. I used to fly as an uncompanied miner when I would come back to > the east coast from Salt Lake City Utah for the Summer and During > Christmas Time. > Jessica > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/serenacucco%40verizon.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Sun May 16 03:28:33 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 22:28:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> Message-ID: We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. First, we don't know if there were other disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the more blatent situations I have heard of, but over the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall through the cracks when one turns over one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see the airlines as figures of authority who cannot be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this story that we need to control our own destinies and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be careful of condemning her, though, without knowing more. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: >This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even if >you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they do >not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf >Of Sarah Alawami >Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >To: nabs list list >Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >teen >I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April 7 >stopover in Chicago. >The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >check of the plane. >She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >stories later, she finally got one. >"They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >sorry." >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >om >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >database 4733 (20091231) __________ >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >http://www.eset.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sun May 16 18:30:34 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:30:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blindteen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> <6A0F3CDB-A045-4621-996F-62AEA152D334@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001f01caf525$e04df180$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Briley and everyone, Unless you charter your own plane. Problems solved! We'll be doing that this year as a result of having $1000.00 of professional recording equipment damaged by lovable Southwest Airlines. Add moving in to a new place in to the mix and you have a prime example of how a blind person can over-come issues of that nature despite the cost of doing so. See you in Dallas. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blindteen My fear is also that because of this, the next time I fly, I'm going to be harassed more than I already am. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I appreciate one or two offers of help to find my gate or my seat, but grabbing my arm and insisting that your job is to help me because I'm blind and must not know where I'm going, (yes this has happened quite a few times), is ridiculous. This kind of story is going to perpetuate the image that blind people are helpless and can't even get off of a plane by themselves. It is frustrating to me. I don't know this girl personally, so nothing of what I say is meant to be taken that way. But I'd be really embarrassed if this story was published about me. Briley On May 15, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: > This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even > if > you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of > course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they > do > not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Sarah Alawami > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM > To: nabs list list > Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind > teen > > I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can > that > be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left > and > get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > > Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > > United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who > was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > > Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went > public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April > 7 > stopover in Chicago. > > The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a > connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten > minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled > check of the plane. > > She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > > After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and > the > promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news > stories later, she finally got one. > > "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., > where > she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said > sorry." > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c > om > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature > database 4733 (20091231) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From valandkayla at gmail.com Sun May 16 18:47:01 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:47:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: there is a type of kurzwiel for the mac this should help you out: http://maccessibility.net/guides/all/ On May 16, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: > Hello Domonique, > I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. > > Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover is more able to handle such pages. > > I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from you when you have a moment. > > All the best, > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac > > >> Dennis, >> With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and >> want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would >> be best. I hope this helps! >> >> Domonique >> >> On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >>> Hello Mac users, >>> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >>> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is the >>> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that the >>> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >>> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode and >>> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >>> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" back >>> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward to >>> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >>> Best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >>> >>> >>>> Hi Joe: >>>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>>> results. >>>> >>>> Your questions are addressed below: >>>> >>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility changed >>>> in >>>> terms of the screen reader? >>>> >>>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >>>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>>> usability. >>>> >>>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its not >>>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. Also, >>>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>>> >>>> If you had to >>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >>>> know >>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation you >>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>> >>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs use >>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor that >>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>> >>>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's version >>>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >>>> inaccessible. >>>> >>>> >>>> Complete control. >>>> >>>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the Mac) >>>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy iWork. >>>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>>> inaccessible. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its quirks >>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>>> great >>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>>> wondering >>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>> >>>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you won't >>>> >>>> use that. >>>> >>>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >>>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>>> >>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>>> don't >>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>> >>>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >>>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>>> >>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>>> >>>> >>>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>>> >>>> >>>> Hope that helps. >>>> Jorge >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sun May 16 18:50:39 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:50:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Briley and everyone, If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than demanding to be treated like other passengers. We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these activities. Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All the best. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Briley Pollard" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blindteen Valory, Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not acceptable. Briley On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become > indignant for all over one person's actions. > > There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement > calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we > don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair > to point fingers. > > Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who > could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs > sighted help in everything. > > We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and > judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as > well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > > Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > > But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that > there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > > On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > >> Hello Sarah and all, >> >> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >> quickly. >> >> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >> sometimes I don't. >> >> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >> >> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >> cope. >> >> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >> >> >> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>> who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>> went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>> April 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>> Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>> unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>> the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>> where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 16 19:27:22 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 12:27:22 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: References: <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> Message-ID: hello all, I'm not quite ready to jump to a judgement here,but I certainly can see why some of the responces to this post have taken the tone that they have either way. If it were me, I would have been off of that plane with the rest of the passangers. But, it wasn't me; it was another person with a different background who's expiriences with their blindness and around blind people are different thanmine. I don't know what this young lady was thinking at the time; for all I know, she could be way more independent than I and for all I know could have other things going on beyond blindness. I feel like some of our best work as federationests is in not only education and empowerment, but guideing others, and doing so with a level of understanding and objective thinking that is in line with our movements greatest leaders. So, if we are to interact with a person such as the person featured in this article, I feel like we ought to consider how to best communicate that there are ways to effectivly handle situations like this one. If we want to let this person know that the NFB is available (and I think that we should) given the oppertunity is the right one, then take advantage of an oppertunity to expose someone to something different. I know that if I was approached by a person who was to say " why don't you just do ____ this way, it's so simple", I'm not too sure I'd want to hear anything this seemingly judgemental person is saying to me; who do they think they are? Just my two bits and fifty cents Darian On 5/15/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: > We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. > First, we don't know if there were other > disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any > independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is > largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the > more blatent situations I have heard of, but over > the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall > through the cracks when one turns over > one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see > the airlines as figures of authority who cannot > be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this > story that we need to control our own destinies > and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be > careful of condemning her, though, without > knowing more. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >> if >>you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >> do >>not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>Of Sarah Alawami >>Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>To: nabs list list >>Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>teen > >>I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >>be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >>get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April >> 7 >>stopover in Chicago. > >>The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>check of the plane. > >>She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>stories later, she finally got one. > >>"They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>sorry." > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>om > >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>database 4733 (20091231) __________ > >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >>http://www.eset.com > > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Sun May 16 19:34:17 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 12:34:17 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [blindkid] Youth Disability Advocates Needed! Open Hand "Youth Ability Summit" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This sounds awsome! pleas pass along to anyone interested. Darian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carlton Anne Cook Walker Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 12:02:47 -0400 Subject: [blindkid] Youth Disability Advocates Needed! Open Hand "Youth Ability Summit" To: blindkid at nfbnet.org, nfbp-students at yahoogroups.com FYI. I got this froma fellow Federationist, and I thought some of our students might be interested. I apologize if the information has already been posted. [I'm woefully behind in my listservs.] Take care, Carlton Youths aged 12-21 who we are interested in creating international change for peers with disabilities through human rights advocacy and cutting-edge awareness raising techniques are invited to apply to attend the Open Hands “Youth Ability Summit” in Damascus, Syria August 1-3 2010. Those selected will receive a free, round-trip ticket from anywhere in the continental U.S. and full accommodations to attend the Summit. At the Summit, participants will work together with Syrian youth involved in disability rights advocacy to share our cultures and perspectives, learn about the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities,and to create an action-packed, youth-centered global awareness campaign. Attending the conference in Damascus will also provide a unique opportunity to experience one of the world’s oldest continuously-inhabited cities. Damascus, renowned as a major cultural center of the Middle East, was chosen as the 2008 Arab Capital of Culture and boasts some of the finest antiquities and historical sites in the region. Syria is an extremely safe tourist destination, with no petty crime. The Youth Ability Summit is being organized by the Open Hands Initiative, dedicated to improving people-to-people understanding by emphasizing our basic shared values and common humanity and the Victor Pineda Foundation, an educational non-profit organization that promotes the rights and dignities of young people with disabilities. *Open Hands “Youth Ability Summit” * Apply at: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/291837/Open-Hands-Youth-Ability-Summit *Applications must be received by May 21, 2010 * Questions? Contact Rachel Walsh, Open Hands Initiative, 917-544-7260 **please note that all participants can be accompanied by one guest/parent/or guardian. All travelers must have a valid U.S. Passport that does not expire within 6-months of the date of travel. * -- Carlton Anne Cook Walker 105 Creamery Road Boiling Springs, PA 17007 Voice: 717-658-9894 Twitter: braillemom _______________________________________________ blindkid mailing list blindkid at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com Sun May 16 19:58:00 2010 From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 15:58:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: References: <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> Message-ID: Hello, all, I agree that we should be careful about passing judgment on this girl and the situation. Yes, she should have been more assertive; getting out her cane and walking in the general direction toward the front of the plane should have gotten her the assistance she needed, and it is odd that no other passenger offered help as everyone was getting off the plane. However, as Daryl said, it is typical for many airlines to ask passengers requiring special assistance to be the last to get off the plane, so if she was asked to do this then forgotten, she would definitely deserve an apology from the airline. Also, keep in mind that this may have been her first time flying alone, and her nervousness about the new situation may have affected her judgments. In any case, I wouldn't put all the blame on this blind girl without having more information, and it may not be entirely appropriate to label this article as "bad press" on the blind. On 5/15/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: > We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. > First, we don't know if there were other > disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any > independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is > largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the > more blatent situations I have heard of, but over > the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall > through the cracks when one turns over > one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see > the airlines as figures of authority who cannot > be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this > story that we need to control our own destinies > and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be > careful of condemning her, though, without > knowing more. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >> if >>you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >> do >>not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>Of Sarah Alawami >>Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>To: nabs list list >>Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>teen > >>I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >>be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >>get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April >> 7 >>stopover in Chicago. > >>The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>check of the plane. > >>She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>stories later, she finally got one. > >>"They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>sorry." > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>om > >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>database 4733 (20091231) __________ > >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >>http://www.eset.com > > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun May 16 20:30:32 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:30:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [blindkid] Youth Disability Advocates Needed! OpenHand "Youth Ability Summit" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6385231F2D6F493FAE659C474BB7FFA7@Rufus> *Syria is an extremely safe tourist destination, with no petty crime.* Of course, this may very well be owed to the fact that petty crimes sometimes result in the amputation of your hand under sharia law. That could be why... Seriously, it sounds like an extraordinary opportunity. I only wish I were young enough to apply. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darian Smith Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:34 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [blindkid] Youth Disability Advocates Needed! OpenHand "Youth Ability Summit" This sounds awsome! pleas pass along to anyone interested. Darian ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Carlton Anne Cook Walker Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 12:02:47 -0400 Subject: [blindkid] Youth Disability Advocates Needed! Open Hand "Youth Ability Summit" To: blindkid at nfbnet.org, nfbp-students at yahoogroups.com FYI. I got this froma fellow Federationist, and I thought some of our students might be interested. I apologize if the information has already been posted. [I'm woefully behind in my listservs.] Take care, Carlton Youths aged 12-21 who we are interested in creating international change for peers with disabilities through human rights advocacy and cutting-edge awareness raising techniques are invited to apply to attend the Open Hands "Youth Ability Summit" in Damascus, Syria August 1-3 2010. Those selected will receive a free, round-trip ticket from anywhere in the continental U.S. and full accommodations to attend the Summit. At the Summit, participants will work together with Syrian youth involved in disability rights advocacy to share our cultures and perspectives, learn about the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities,and to create an action-packed, youth-centered global awareness campaign. Attending the conference in Damascus will also provide a unique opportunity to experience one of the world's oldest continuously-inhabited cities. Damascus, renowned as a major cultural center of the Middle East, was chosen as the 2008 Arab Capital of Culture and boasts some of the finest antiquities and historical sites in the region. Syria is an extremely safe tourist destination, with no petty crime. The Youth Ability Summit is being organized by the Open Hands Initiative, dedicated to improving people-to-people understanding by emphasizing our basic shared values and common humanity and the Victor Pineda Foundation, an educational non-profit organization that promotes the rights and dignities of young people with disabilities. *Open Hands "Youth Ability Summit" * Apply at: http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/291837/Open-Hands-Youth-Ability-Summit *Applications must be received by May 21, 2010 * Questions? Contact Rachel Walsh, Open Hands Initiative, 917-544-7260 **please note that all participants can be accompanied by one guest/parent/or guardian. All travelers must have a valid U.S. Passport that does not expire within 6-months of the date of travel. * -- Carlton Anne Cook Walker 105 Creamery Road Boiling Springs, PA 17007 Voice: 717-658-9894 Twitter: braillemom _______________________________________________ blindkid mailing list blindkid at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/dsmith nfb%40gmail.com -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." - Teilhard de Chardin _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5118 (20100516) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5118 (20100516) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From ccook01 at knology.net Sun May 16 20:31:50 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:31:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: References: <000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com> Message-ID: Katie, I like your point of view here. Also I am getting the feeling we have not seen all details to this story. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katie Wang Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 3:58 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Hello, all, I agree that we should be careful about passing judgment on this girl and the situation. Yes, she should have been more assertive; getting out her cane and walking in the general direction toward the front of the plane should have gotten her the assistance she needed, and it is odd that no other passenger offered help as everyone was getting off the plane. However, as Daryl said, it is typical for many airlines to ask passengers requiring special assistance to be the last to get off the plane, so if she was asked to do this then forgotten, she would definitely deserve an apology from the airline. Also, keep in mind that this may have been her first time flying alone, and her nervousness about the new situation may have affected her judgments. In any case, I wouldn't put all the blame on this blind girl without having more information, and it may not be entirely appropriate to label this article as "bad press" on the blind. On 5/15/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: > We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. > First, we don't know if there were other > disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any > independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is > largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the > more blatent situations I have heard of, but over > the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall > through the cracks when one turns over > one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see > the airlines as figures of authority who cannot > be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this > story that we need to control our own destinies > and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be > careful of condemning her, though, without > knowing more. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >> if >>you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >> do >>not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >>Of Sarah Alawami >>Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>To: nabs list list >>Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>teen > >>I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >>be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >>get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April >> 7 >>stopover in Chicago. > >>The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>check of the plane. > >>She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>stories later, she finally got one. > >>"They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>sorry." > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo .c >>om > >>__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>database 4733 (20091231) __________ > >>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >>http://www.eset.com > > > > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40v isi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail. com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From darrell.shandrow at gmail.com Sun May 16 20:47:31 2010 From: darrell.shandrow at gmail.com (Darrell Shandrow) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:47:31 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> Hello Peter, I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example of the need to pick battles one can actually win. It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Briley and everyone, > > If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching > Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal > access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of > publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much > much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline > personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead > if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, > the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late > 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination > heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard > when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and > physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than > demanding to be treated like other passengers. > > We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several > hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; > a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest > against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in > remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the > airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these > activities. > Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large > passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or > two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. > They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down > and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and > not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters > aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and > upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All > the best. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting > blindteen > > > Valory, > > Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was > portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her > rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What > is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media > coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does > upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not > acceptable. > > Briley > > > On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >> indignant for all over one person's actions. >> >> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >> to point fingers. >> >> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >> sighted help in everything. >> >> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >> >> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >> >> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >> >> >>> Hello Sarah and all, >>> >>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>> quickly. >>> >>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>> sometimes I don't. >>> >>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>> >>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>> cope. >>> >>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>> >>> >>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>> >>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>> >>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>> >>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>> who >>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>> >>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>> went >>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>> April 7 >>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>> >>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>> Ten >>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>> unscheduled >>>> check of the plane. >>>> >>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>> >>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>> the >>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>> >>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>> where >>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>> sorry." >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > From ccook01 at knology.net Sun May 16 21:31:40 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:31:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: I agree, with you here. Personally as a blind person I do not wish to be seated in the emergency exit row. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darrell Shandrow Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History Hello Peter, I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example of the need to pick battles one can actually win. It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Briley and everyone, > > If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching > Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal > access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of > publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much > much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline > personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead > if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, > the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late > 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination > heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard > when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and > physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than > demanding to be treated like other passengers. > > We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several > hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; > a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest > against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in > remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the > airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these > activities. > Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large > passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or > two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. > They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down > and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and > not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters > aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and > upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All > the best. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting > blindteen > > > Valory, > > Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was > portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her > rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What > is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media > coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does > upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not > acceptable. > > Briley > > > On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >> indignant for all over one person's actions. >> >> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >> to point fingers. >> >> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >> sighted help in everything. >> >> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >> >> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >> >> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >> >> >>> Hello Sarah and all, >>> >>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>> quickly. >>> >>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>> sometimes I don't. >>> >>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>> >>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>> cope. >>> >>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>> >>> >>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>> >>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>> >>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>> >>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>> who >>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>> >>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>> went >>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>> April 7 >>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>> >>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>> Ten >>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>> unscheduled >>>> check of the plane. >>>> >>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>> >>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>> the >>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>> >>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>> where >>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>> sorry." >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From jsorozco at gmail.com Sun May 16 21:48:31 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:48:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Message-ID: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> Dear all, It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of the responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's actions, why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad of situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week for people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of our responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my first contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: How To Files - Traveling by Air When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible to ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to make your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone rates be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not being able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like the NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find the best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to stand in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll need to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into your flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat if this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying Southwest. When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters will be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to do is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to ask where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your plane headed to the same destination. After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is made easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap the heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask Cujo to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you has left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll get the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage said person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your flight. So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're at the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want to get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding your gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is to sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of walking and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite characters. And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you real world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to get overwhelmed and frustrated. Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to find the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave and already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the sounds you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of the metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering through the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives admonishing people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not even a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to be sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up the rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a phone. Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter the first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. Ask him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember when asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying until you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your finger in the right direction. Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting through the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers may learn a thing or two. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5118 (20100516) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From harryhogue at yahoo.com Sun May 16 22:19:35 2010 From: harryhogue at yahoo.com (Harry Hogue) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:19:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> Message-ID: <000001caf545$de026d50$9a0747f0$@com> Joe, I am saving this post to read in future. It is very well written and this idea is an excellent one. I may contribute to this thread myself. Hank you for your contribution and I hope others follow. -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:49 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Dear all, It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of the responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's actions, why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad of situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week for people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of our responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my first contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: How To Files - Traveling by Air When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible to ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to make your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone rates be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not being able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like the NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find the best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to stand in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll need to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into your flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat if this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying Southwest. When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters will be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to do is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to ask where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your plane headed to the same destination. After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is made easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap the heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask Cujo to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you has left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll get the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage said person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your flight. So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're at the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want to get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding your gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is to sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of walking and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite characters. And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you real world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to get overwhelmed and frustrated. Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to find the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave and already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the sounds you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of the metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering through the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives admonishing people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not even a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to be sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up the rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a phone. Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter the first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. Ask him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember when asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying until you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your finger in the right direction. Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting through the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers may learn a thing or two. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5118 (20100516) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c om __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4733 (20091231) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From davidb521 at gmail.com Sun May 16 22:35:01 2010 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:35:01 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> Message-ID: <4bf0731a.0752640a.6ded.ffff9200@mx.google.com> Hi. A couple of extra tips. Sometimes if you're flying with an airline that assigns seats, they may change your seating assignment at the last minute to put you in the bulkhead, or out of an exit row. I will try telling them not to do that beforehand next time, and see what the response is. I am not sure what will happen though. Also, if you want to walk through the metal detector with your cane, you ought to. Just tell the security agent that you will walk through the metal detector with your cane, but they are more than welcome to scan it on the other side. There's not enough metal on an NFB cane to set off the detector. That usually works for me, but you have to appear confident in doing this, as that makes an impression that you are competent. Also keep in mind that the TSA personnel are very touchy about you making physical contact with the metal detector. When you get to the other side of the checkpoint, and when you get your stuff, you can ask directions to your gate, a bathroom, or an eating establishment, whatever is your wish. When you're at your gate, you have the option of pre-boarding, which is a preference. I personally do not agree with pre-boarding, and if you don't want to pre-board, you should not be forced in to doing so. However, as I said, it is an individual preference. Also, I have heard that Delta has given a lot of blind passengers problems of one sort of another lately. They tried to take my cane from me, as well as having me post-board, but I refused on both counts, and was successful. That is all I have for now. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:49 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Dear all, It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of the responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's actions, why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad of situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week for people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of our responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my first contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: How To Files - Traveling by Air When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible to ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to make your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone rates be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not being able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like the NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find the best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to stand in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll need to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into your flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat if this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying Southwest. When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters will be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to do is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to ask where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your plane headed to the same destination. After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is made easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap the heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask Cujo to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you has left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll get the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage said person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your flight. So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're at the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want to get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding your gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is to sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of walking and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite characters. And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you real world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to get overwhelmed and frustrated. Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to find the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave and already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the sounds you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of the metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering through the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives admonishing people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not even a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to be sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up the rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a phone. Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter the first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. Ask him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember when asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying until you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your finger in the right direction. Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting through the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers may learn a thing or two. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5118 (20100516) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Sun May 16 23:15:41 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 18:15:41 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401caf54d$b4f480d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Darrell and everyone, Or a blind person being denied a job due to a representative from the company to whom the blind applicant was seeking a position with observing the blind person being moved from the exit due to the airline's unbelief in our ability to evacuate from an airplane or to assist other passengers in an emergency. The exit row battle is a very important issue. Dr. Jernigan made no bones about it. Hopefully in the future that war will be won. It's about the only "Unfinished business" we have with securing airtravel rights for the blind. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corey Cook" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History I agree, with you here. Personally as a blind person I do not wish to be seated in the emergency exit row. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darrell Shandrow Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:48 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History Hello Peter, I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example of the need to pick battles one can actually win. It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: > Hello Briley and everyone, > > If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching > Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal > access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of > publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much > much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline > personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead > if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, > the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late > 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination > heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard > when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and > physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than > demanding to be treated like other passengers. > > We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several > hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; > a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest > against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in > remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the > airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these > activities. > Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large > passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or > two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. > They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down > and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and > not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters > aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and > upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All > the best. > > Peter Donahue > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting > blindteen > > > Valory, > > Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was > portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her > rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What > is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media > coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does > upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not > acceptable. > > Briley > > > On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >> indignant for all over one person's actions. >> >> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >> to point fingers. >> >> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >> sighted help in everything. >> >> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >> >> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >> >> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >> >> >>> Hello Sarah and all, >>> >>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>> quickly. >>> >>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>> sometimes I don't. >>> >>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>> >>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>> cope. >>> >>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>> >>> >>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>> >>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>> >>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>> >>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>> who >>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>> >>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>> went >>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>> April 7 >>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>> >>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>> Ten >>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>> unscheduled >>>> check of the plane. >>>> >>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>> >>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>> the >>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>> >>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>> where >>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>> sorry." >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From liamskitten at gmail.com Sun May 16 23:39:12 2010 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 18:39:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: Corey, I think you unintentionally hit the nail on the head as to why the NFB is fighting these battles. You personally don't want to be seated in an emergency row. However, you do not have the right to limit other blind people's seating because of your personal preferences. The NFB fought these battles so that those who don't want to sit in certain seats can have their wishes respected, but those that do wish to have their wishes respected, too. I used the seat dilemma as an example because you brought it up. In every aspect of the airline battle, the NFB fights for these same principles. The organization fights to broaden opportunities; that does not force you to take them, but it allows others not to be limited. Courtney On 5/16/10, Corey Cook wrote: > I agree, with you here. > Personally as a blind person I do not wish to be seated in the emergency > exit row. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Darrell Shandrow > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > Hello Peter, > > I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example > of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > > It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > > There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would > be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > > If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily > bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of > a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > > On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure > equal >> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind > of >> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and > much >> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the > bulkhead >> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and > post-board, >> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard >> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more > than >> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> >> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit > row; >> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >> activities. >> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting > down >> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and >> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. > All >> the best. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> >> >> Valory, >> >> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What >> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. > Media >> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >> acceptable. >> >> Briley >> >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >> >>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> >>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>> to point fingers. >>> >>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>> sighted help in everything. >>> >>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> >>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> >>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> >>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>> >>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>> quickly. >>>> >>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>>> sometimes I don't. >>>> >>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>> >>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>> cope. >>>> >>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>> >>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>> >>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>> >>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>> who >>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>> went >>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>> April 7 >>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>> Ten >>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>> unscheduled >>>>> check of the plane. >>>>> >>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>> >>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>>> the >>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>> >>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>> where >>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they > said >>>>> sorry." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g > mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba > l.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g > mail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne > t > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Sun May 16 23:47:11 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 18:47:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Dennis, I am not currently using a mac but Voc Rehab is purchasing one for me and it should be here soon. I'll post more on it when I get it. If you have any questions though please feel free to email me and I'll see what I can find out. Best Wishes, Domonique On 5/16/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: > there is a type of kurzwiel for the mac > this should help you out: > http://maccessibility.net/guides/all/ > On May 16, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: > >> Hello Domonique, >> I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be >> some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only >> around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. >> >> Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari >> on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently >> with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, >> flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover is >> more able to handle such pages. >> >> I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from >> you when you have a moment. >> >> All the best, >> Dennis >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" >> >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac >> >> >>> Dennis, >>> With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and >>> want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would >>> be best. I hope this helps! >>> >>> Domonique >>> >>> On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >>>> Hello Mac users, >>>> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >>>> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is >>>> the >>>> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that >>>> the >>>> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >>>> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode >>>> and >>>> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >>>> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" >>>> back >>>> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward >>>> to >>>> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >>>> Best, >>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Joe: >>>>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>>>> results. >>>>> >>>>> Your questions are addressed below: >>>>> >>>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility >>>>> changed >>>>> in >>>>> terms of the screen reader? >>>>> >>>>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >>>>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>>>> usability. >>>>> >>>>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>>>> >>>>> Yes. >>>>> >>>>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its >>>>> not >>>>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. >>>>> Also, >>>>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>>>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>>>> >>>>> If you had to >>>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >>>>> know >>>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation >>>>> you >>>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>>> >>>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs >>>>> use >>>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor >>>>> that >>>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>>> >>>>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>>>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>>>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>>>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's >>>>> version >>>>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >>>>> inaccessible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Complete control. >>>>> >>>>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the >>>>> Mac) >>>>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy >>>>> iWork. >>>>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>>>> inaccessible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its >>>>> quirks >>>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>>>> great >>>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>>>> wondering >>>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>>> >>>>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>>>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you >>>>> won't >>>>> >>>>> use that. >>>>> >>>>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >>>>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>>>> >>>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>>>> don't >>>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>>> >>>>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >>>>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>>>> >>>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>>> >>>>> Yes. >>>>> >>>>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>>>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hope that helps. >>>>> Jorge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From ccook01 at knology.net Sun May 16 23:58:04 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 19:58:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> <4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Courtney, Thanks for the feedback. I honestly had no idea there was such a concern going on about the excit row seating. I think I will have to go back and reread some of those older Braille Monitor issues. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Courtney Stover Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:39 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History Corey, I think you unintentionally hit the nail on the head as to why the NFB is fighting these battles. You personally don't want to be seated in an emergency row. However, you do not have the right to limit other blind people's seating because of your personal preferences. The NFB fought these battles so that those who don't want to sit in certain seats can have their wishes respected, but those that do wish to have their wishes respected, too. I used the seat dilemma as an example because you brought it up. In every aspect of the airline battle, the NFB fights for these same principles. The organization fights to broaden opportunities; that does not force you to take them, but it allows others not to be limited. Courtney On 5/16/10, Corey Cook wrote: > I agree, with you here. > Personally as a blind person I do not wish to be seated in the emergency > exit row. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Darrell Shandrow > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > Hello Peter, > > I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example > of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > > It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > > There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would > be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > > If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily > bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of > a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > > On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure > equal >> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind > of >> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and > much >> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the > bulkhead >> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and > post-board, >> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard >> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more > than >> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> >> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit > row; >> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >> activities. >> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting > down >> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and >> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. > All >> the best. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> >> >> Valory, >> >> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What >> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. > Media >> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >> acceptable. >> >> Briley >> >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >> >>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> >>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>> to point fingers. >>> >>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>> sighted help in everything. >>> >>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> >>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> >>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> >>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>> >>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>> quickly. >>>> >>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>>> sometimes I don't. >>>> >>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>> >>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>> cope. >>>> >>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>> >>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>> >>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>> >>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>> who >>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>> went >>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>> April 7 >>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>> Ten >>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>> unscheduled >>>>> check of the plane. >>>>> >>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>> >>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>>> the >>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>> >>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>> where >>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they > said >>>>> sorry." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g > mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba > l.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g > mail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne > t > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From jj at bestmidi.com Mon May 17 00:39:35 2010 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:39:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblindteen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com><6A0F3CDB-A045-4621-996F-62AEA152D334@gmail.com> <001f01caf525$e04df180$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <407B641BE97B4F319429020D3857E72E@jage> Charter a plane? Why not Fedex? I know of lots of people doing this to avoid checked bag fees and the like. J.J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblindteen > Hello Briley and everyone, > > Unless you charter your own plane. Problems solved! We'll be doing that > this year as a result of having $1000.00 of professional recording > equipment > damaged by lovable Southwest Airlines. Add moving in to a new place in to > the mix and you have a prime example of how a blind person can over-come > issues of that nature despite the cost of doing so. See you in Dallas. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting > blindteen > > > My fear is also that because of this, the next time I fly, I'm going to be > harassed more than I already am. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I appreciate > one or two offers of help to find my gate or my seat, but grabbing my arm > and insisting that your job is to help me because I'm blind and must not > know where I'm going, (yes this has happened quite a few times), is > ridiculous. This kind of story is going to perpetuate the image that blind > people are helpless and can't even get off of a plane by themselves. It is > frustrating to me. I don't know this girl personally, so nothing of what I > say is meant to be taken that way. But I'd be really embarrassed if this > story was published about me. > > Briley > On May 15, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: > >> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >> if >> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >> do >> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Sarah Alawami >> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >> To: nabs list list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >> teen >> >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >> that >> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left >> and >> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >> April >> 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >> unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >> the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >> where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Mon May 17 00:57:56 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:57:56 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><4BEF4B5D.1040009@gmail.com> <1ADCE4CE-6E73-446B-8DE2-BE71AFB916AB@gmail.com> <002801caf528$ae3953d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn><4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> <001401caf54d$b4f480d0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <043f01caf55b$fcdde4f0$6601a8c0@server> Hello Peter, I really don't think that any rational potential employer is going to reach that conclusion any more than he is going to conclude that he shouldn't hire women because he saw some women on an airplane who were not strong enough to lift their own bag into the overhead without assistance. Certainly some employer might privately offer this as an excuse, but he would not be telling the truth about his motivation. He wouldn't have hired the blind person even if he had never seen one of us before. Also, I am willing to admit that I don't want blind people, elderly people, or anyone else sitting in the emergency isle who can not quickly read and follow the instructions on the emergency release for the exit. I really do not believe this is discrimination, and God knows we are living in a country which is exhibiting more discrimination today against the blind than I have seen at any time during my lifetime. Reasonable people can certainly disagree on this point and that is what makes for horse races. All the best, Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > Hello Darrell and everyone, > > Or a blind person being denied a job due to a representative from the > company to whom the blind applicant was seeking a position with observing > the blind person being moved from the exit due to the airline's unbelief > in > our ability to evacuate from an airplane or to assist other passengers in > an > emergency. The exit row battle is a very important issue. Dr. Jernigan > made > no bones about it. Hopefully in the future that war will be won. It's > about > the only "Unfinished business" we have with securing airtravel rights for > the blind. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Corey Cook" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:31 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > > I agree, with you here. > Personally as a blind person I do not wish to be seated in the emergency > exit row. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Darrell Shandrow > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:48 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > Hello Peter, > > I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example > of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > > It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > > There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would > be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > > If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily > bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of > a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > > On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure > equal >> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind > of >> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and > much >> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the > bulkhead >> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and > post-board, >> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >> guard >> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more > than >> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> >> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit > row; >> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >> activities. >> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting > down >> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >> and >> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. > All >> the best. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> >> >> Valory, >> >> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >> What >> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. > Media >> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >> acceptable. >> >> Briley >> >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >> >>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> >>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>> judgement >>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>> to point fingers. >>> >>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>> sighted help in everything. >>> >>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> >>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> >>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> >>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>> >>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>> quickly. >>>> >>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>> and >>>> sometimes I don't. >>>> >>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>> >>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>> cope. >>>> >>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>> due >>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>> turn >>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>> >>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>> >>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>> >>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>> who >>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>> went >>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>> April 7 >>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>> Ten >>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>> unscheduled >>>>> check of the plane. >>>>> >>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>> >>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>> and >>>>> the >>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>> news >>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>> >>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>> where >>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they > said >>>>> sorry." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g > mail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. > com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba > l.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g > mail.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne > t > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net From jj at bestmidi.com Mon May 17 00:55:52 2010 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:55:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> Message-ID: <40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on one side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, bathrooms, etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A gates on the left and the B gates on the right. In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. So you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to you. You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible to not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on luggage and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can go straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or any airline agents messing with your reservation. Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline and flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for American Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will often have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be found, such as the nearest gate. Who's next? Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Dear all, > > It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of > the > responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in > similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's actions, > why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad of > situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week for > people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS > website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of our > responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my > first > contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: > > How To Files - Traveling by Air > > When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible > to > ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to > make > your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to > navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone > rates > be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not > being > able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like > the > NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find the > best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all > possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to > stand > in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll need > to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into your > flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat if > this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying > Southwest. > > When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters > will > be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into > considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but > your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most > closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to > do > is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? > Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to ask > where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and > chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be > surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and > who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your > plane headed to the same destination. > > After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is > made > easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap > the > heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask > Cujo > to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you > has > left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll > get > the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage said > person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your > flight. > > So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're > at > the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're > running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want to > get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler > and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding > your > gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is > to > sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be > reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of > walking > and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite > characters. > > And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to > overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same > concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you > learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you real > world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. > > Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get > the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask > for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their > ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey > into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to > get overwhelmed and frustrated. > > Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to find > the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative > gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave and > already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these > directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the sounds > you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of > the > metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering through > the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives admonishing > people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? > > Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not > even > a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and > sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to be > sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up > the > rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and > put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is > currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a > phone. > > Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter > the > first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. > Ask > him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember > when > asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully > understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying > until > you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your finger > in the right direction. > > Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting through > the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately > your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and > how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think > important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers > may learn a thing or two. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5118 (20100516) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Mon May 17 02:15:09 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 20:15:09 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> <40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> Message-ID: Hi all, I would amend the beginning of this thread to add that most airlines have a curbside check-in option which is very convenient, especially if you are checking luggage. When I take a cab or have someone drive me to the airport I often ask them to drop me off at the curbside checkpoint for my airline; then I simply wait in the line (much shorter than inside) and check my bag with them and obtain my boarding pass. It is customary to give the curbside agent a small tip of $1 or $2, although I don't always do this if I am also paying bag fees. After checking in curbside, I simply walk into the terminal (without bags) and then locate security. One of the biggest hassles I face at the airport is airline staff trying to direct me to stand in a special "handicapped" line making it difficult for me to find the regular security line. I know I have flustered airline officials on more than one occasion with my gentle but firm statement of preference to go through the regular line. You will have to decide whether or not this is a battle worth fighting. In any case, once you find the end of the line, you can follow the rails and the person in front of you to stay in line effectively. To pre-board or not to pre-board is another choice to make. While I wouldn't put down anyone who chooses to preboard, I would say I don't think it's necessary, even if you are getting assistance to the gate. When your boarding group is called, you can simply follow the person in front of you in line down the jetway. I don't pre-board simply because I want to educate the airline staff and my fellow passengers that not all blind passengers require the same accommodations. Another airplane fact: Usually the A, B, and C seats are on the left (facing the front of the plane) while the D, E, and F seats are on the right (again, facing forward). You can count rows to find your seat. The airplane bathroom is usually at the very front or the very back of the plane, so if you want to go, simply get up and walk straight forward or straight back. I usually count how many rows I pass to get to the bathroom so I can find my row again on the way back, and if I am in an aisle seat, I'll put something on the seat so I can confirm that it is the right row. Arielle On 5/16/10, J.J. Meddaugh wrote: > While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to > navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. > > Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think of > the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on one side > of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, bathrooms, etc.) > on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and even gates > on the other side. A few larger airports will have two different sets of > gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A gates on the left and > the B gates on the right. > > > In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. So > you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've > traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to > travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to you. > You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. > > If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the > hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as > needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible to > not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one personal > item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a personal item > and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can generally measure > 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit larger and as long as > you're close to this number, you won't be singled out by a gate agent or TSA > employee. If you can stick to carry-on luggage and print your boarding pass > before you arrive at the airport, you can go straight through security to > your gate without your seat being moved or any airline agents messing with > your reservation. > > Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate hasn't > changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use text > messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline and flight > number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for American Airlines > flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current information. > Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. While there is > usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport website and/or > flight tracker is accessible for free. > > Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander > down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, cash > registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will often have a > list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better websites also > show where in each concourse a particular place can be found, such as the > nearest gate. > > Who's next? > Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. > > > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com > A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >> Dear all, >> >> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of >> the >> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's actions, >> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad of >> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week for >> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of our >> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >> first >> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >> >> How To Files - Traveling by Air >> >> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible >> to >> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >> make >> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to >> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >> rates >> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >> being >> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like >> the >> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find the >> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >> stand >> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll need >> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into your >> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat if >> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >> Southwest. >> >> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >> will >> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but >> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most >> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to >> do >> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to ask >> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and >> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your >> plane headed to the same destination. >> >> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >> made >> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >> the >> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >> Cujo >> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >> has >> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll >> get >> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage said >> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >> flight. >> >> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're >> at >> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want to >> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler >> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >> your >> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is >> to >> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >> walking >> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite >> characters. >> >> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same >> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you >> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you real >> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >> >> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get >> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask >> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their >> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey >> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to >> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >> >> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to find >> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative >> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave and >> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the sounds >> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >> the >> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering through >> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives admonishing >> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >> >> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >> even >> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to be >> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >> the >> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and >> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a >> phone. >> >> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter >> the >> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >> Ask >> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >> when >> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >> until >> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your finger >> in the right direction. >> >> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting through >> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately >> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and >> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think >> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers >> may learn a thing or two. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nabs.president%40gmail.com > -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Mon May 17 02:56:29 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 21:56:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes forforgettingblindteen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab><4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com><000c01caf495$85028600$8f079200$@com><6A0F3CDB-A045-4621-996F-62AEA152D334@gmail.com><001f01caf525$e04df180$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <407B641BE97B4F319429020D3857E72E@jage> Message-ID: <000f01caf56c$8d58a370$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello J.J. and everyone, , If you charter an entire airplane the whole aircraft cabin and hold are yours no Fed-X required. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.J. Meddaugh" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes forforgettingblindteen Charter a plane? Why not Fedex? I know of lots of people doing this to avoid checked bag fees and the like. J.J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgettingblindteen > Hello Briley and everyone, > > Unless you charter your own plane. Problems solved! We'll be doing that > this year as a result of having $1000.00 of professional recording > equipment > damaged by lovable Southwest Airlines. Add moving in to a new place in to > the mix and you have a prime example of how a blind person can over-come > issues of that nature despite the cost of doing so. See you in Dallas. > > Peter Donahue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Briley Pollard" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting > blindteen > > > My fear is also that because of this, the next time I fly, I'm going to be > harassed more than I already am. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I appreciate > one or two offers of help to find my gate or my seat, but grabbing my arm > and insisting that your job is to help me because I'm blind and must not > know where I'm going, (yes this has happened quite a few times), is > ridiculous. This kind of story is going to perpetuate the image that blind > people are helpless and can't even get off of a plane by themselves. It is > frustrating to me. I don't know this girl personally, so nothing of what I > say is meant to be taken that way. But I'd be really embarrassed if this > story was published about me. > > Briley > On May 15, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: > >> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >> if >> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >> do >> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Sarah Alawami >> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >> To: nabs list list >> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >> teen >> >> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >> that >> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left >> and >> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >> >> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >> April >> 7 >> stopover in Chicago. >> >> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >> unscheduled >> check of the plane. >> >> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >> the >> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >> stories later, she finally got one. >> >> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >> where >> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >> sorry." >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >> om >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature >> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon May 17 03:11:52 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 22:11:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <4BF059E3.9090305@gmail.com> Message-ID: Darrell, Having been one in the middle of that part of our history, we thought we did have a pretty good chance of winning and came pretty close. While the victory that we did get was very, very small, at least now there is consideration in advance as to who should sit in an exit row and the qualifications are better defined. There was none at all then, a blind person was often replaced by whomever sat closest. The policy was not enforced consistently. Before 1987 or so, I sat in exit rows at least four times without any issue being raised, and for the record, I never requested to sit in one, it was just coincidence. I am not pretending this is what we had hoped for, but we are no longer singled out to the degree that we were then, being repeatedly seated in an exit row and then asked publically when the plane was full to exchange places with virtually anyone else. It is also much easier to pick your battles after the fact. It wasn't just exit rows then, it was whether we should be able to keep canes, and whether there should be a limit on the number of handicapped people on a single flight, and whether there should be mandatory preboarding. There was an attempt to impose a requirement that handicapped persons be placed in a special services room with airline officials keeping their tickets so they would have to remain there, which happened to some travelers. During my involvement, I never maintained that all blind people should sit in exit rows. I also maintained that not all sighted persons were qualified to sit there, either. A person needs to feel they are able to handle that responsibility and there needed to be some basic qualifications established as well. I still feel I am probably better able to handle an exit row emergency better than many of the people who sit in that seat because I'm comfortable on the roof of my house and am not afraid of heights as the wing is generally a good ten feet or more off the ground. I am a decent swimmer and would not hesitate if exiting would mean jumping into water. I wonder how often, even under current regulations, whether the airlines make certain that people in exit rows have a fear of heights, are afraid of water, can swim, or whether they might even have a heart condition. However, in todays atmosphere with all of the problems that have been initiated by terrorists on airplanes, there is certainly nothing to be gained by opening this up now. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:47:31 -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >Hello Peter, >I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal >> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of >> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much >> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead >> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, >> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard >> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than >> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> >> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; >> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >> activities. >> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down >> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and >> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All >> the best. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> >> >> Valory, >> >> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What >> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media >> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >> acceptable. >> >> Briley >> >> >> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >> >>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> >>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>> to point fingers. >>> >>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>> sighted help in everything. >>> >>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> >>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> >>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> >>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>> >>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>> quickly. >>>> >>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>>> sometimes I don't. >>>> >>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>> >>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>> cope. >>>> >>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>> >>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>> >>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>> >>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>> who >>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>> went >>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>> April 7 >>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>> >>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>> Ten >>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>> unscheduled >>>>> check of the plane. >>>>> >>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>> >>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>>> the >>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>> >>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>> where >>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>>> sorry." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From freespirit328 at gmail.com Mon May 17 03:25:07 2010 From: freespirit328 at gmail.com (Jennifer Aberdeen) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 23:25:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Real Estate Licenses Message-ID: <1EF123CE215545018F697BC751AA8104@Gateway> Hi all, Has anyone successfully gone to real estate school and then taken the exam? Would a job in the real estate industry be something I could do without much trouble? Jen From minesm at me.com Mon May 17 05:41:26 2010 From: minesm at me.com (Maurice Mines) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 23:41:26 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75E03D66-5B84-4871-B094-5A57A620D99A@me.com> Also the other problem that we should possibly bring to their attention, is to make certain that anyone sitting in the exit row isn't three sheets to the wind, I can't tell you how many times I've seen this be a distinct problem. It has been such a problem for such a long amount of time that it was even mentioned occasionally in Dr. Jernigan's speeches. Just my two cents worth more use than Greeley Colorado. PS I am dictating this e-mail with MacSpeech Dictate, so if some words don't exactly mean what they shared in context please forgive me, the software. If you like to discuss all this did and did not come out, these write me off list, so as not to clutter the list. Thank you all in advance. On May 16, 2010, at 9:11 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote: > Darrell, > > Having been one in the middle of that part of our history, we thought we did have a pretty good chance of winning and > came pretty close. While the victory that we did get was very, very small, at least now there is consideration in advance > as to who should sit in an exit row and the qualifications are better defined. There was none at all then, a blind person > was often replaced by whomever sat closest. The policy was not enforced consistently. Before 1987 or so, I sat in exit > rows at least four times without any issue being raised, and for the record, I never requested to sit in one, it was just > coincidence. > > I am not pretending this is what we had hoped for, but we are no longer singled out to the degree that we were then, > being repeatedly seated in an exit row and then asked publically when the plane was full to exchange places with > virtually anyone else. It is also much easier to pick your battles after the fact. It wasn't just exit rows then, it was > whether we should be able to keep canes, and whether there should be a limit on the number of handicapped people > on a single flight, and whether there should be mandatory preboarding. There was an attempt to impose a requirement > that handicapped persons be placed in a special services room with airline officials keeping their tickets so they would > have to remain there, which happened to some travelers. > > During my involvement, I never maintained that all blind people should sit in exit rows. I also maintained that not all > sighted persons were qualified to sit there, either. A person needs to feel they are able to handle that responsibility and > there needed to be some basic qualifications established as well. I still feel I am probably better able to handle an exit > row emergency better than many of the people who sit in that seat because I'm comfortable on the roof of my house and > am not afraid of heights as the wing is generally a good ten feet or more off the ground. I am a decent swimmer and > would not hesitate if exiting would mean jumping into water. I wonder how often, even under current regulations, > whether the airlines make certain that people in exit rows have a fear of heights, are afraid of water, can swim, or > whether they might even have a heart condition. However, in todays atmosphere with all of the problems that have > been initiated by terrorists on airplanes, there is certainly nothing to be gained by opening this up now. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > > On Sun, 16 May 2010 13:47:31 -0700, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > >> Hello Peter, > >> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Hello Briley and everyone, >>> >>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal >>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of >>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much >>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead >>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, >>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard >>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than >>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >>> >>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; >>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>> activities. >>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down >>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and >>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All >>> the best. >>> >>> Peter Donahue >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>> blindteen >>> >>> >>> Valory, >>> >>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What >>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media >>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>> acceptable. >>> >>> Briley >>> >>> >>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>>> >>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>>> to point fingers. >>>> >>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>>> sighted help in everything. >>>> >>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>>> >>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>>> >>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>>> >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>>> >>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>>> quickly. >>>>> >>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>>>> sometimes I don't. >>>>> >>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>>> >>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>> cope. >>>>> >>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>>> >>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>>> >>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>>> >>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>>> who >>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>> went >>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>> April 7 >>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>>> >>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>>> Ten >>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>> check of the plane. >>>>>> >>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>>> >>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>>>> the >>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>>> >>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>>> where >>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>>>> sorry." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minesm%40me.com From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net Mon May 17 09:31:03 2010 From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 04:31:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Come to the Mac Academy! Message-ID: Sales contact: Dave Wright 651-636-5184 sales at handytech.us Come to the Mac Academy! Due to overwhelming response to the Mac Academy Workshops being offered by Handy Tech North America, the June 14-16 class has been sold out. The good news is that two more have been added for July and August of 2010 at the Handy Tech facility in Columbia Heights, MN and more are being scheduled around the United States and Canada. Please check the Handy Tech North America Web site for Mac training being offered at a location near you. Description This 5 day intensive workshop is designed to teach participants how to use the Voiceover screen reader that is installed on every Apple computer running the OSX10.6 Snow Leopard operating system. Each day will consist of group instruction, time for practice, and personalized one on one instruction. Topics covered include, setting up an Apple computer and using Voiceover out of the box, understanding the various elements, menus, and dialogs encountered within the OS, and the many applications that come pre-installed; word processing, browsing the internet, iTunes, file management and much more. Participants who do not already own an Apple computer will be provided one to use while in class and participants may also purchase a computer as part of the training so that they may take home the computer which they have been working with during the workshop. "Apple is the clear front runner in terms of off the shelf accessibility" states Earle Harrison, President and Founder of Handy Tech North America, "and we are proud to be among the first adaptive technology companies to offer such an in-depth and comprehensive class on this exciting and ever evolving technology." Who should attend? Adaptive technology trainers, vision teachers, technicians and rehabilitation professionals. Any blind or low vision professional or student interested in learning the free Voiceover screen reader included with every Apple Macintosh computer running the Snow Leopard OSX10.6 operating system, with the goal of becoming more competitive with their sighted classmates or co-workers. Time The first Mac Academy is scheduled to take place at the Handy Tech North America training center in Columbia Heights, Minnesota beginning Monday, June 14 until Friday, June 18, 2010. Cost The cost for this event is $1,000.00 per participant (this price does not include travel, lodging or food expenses). Maximum Capacity This class has a maximum capacity of 12 participants. There will be two instructors to insure quality one on one instruction. Accommodation/Special Group Rate Special room rates are available at the LivINN Suites located less than a mile from the training center. Complimentary transportation from the hotel to the training center will be provided by Handy Tech North America. Participants who choose to stay at a different hotel will be responsible for their own transportation. Questions? As always, please don't hesitate to contact Handy Tech North America should you have any questions whatsoever. We look forward to your participation. Phone: 651-636-5184; Email: info at handytech.us. Registration The link below will take you to a page where you can find out more about the hotel and how to register for the class: www.handytech.us/mac_academy_reg.html. Follow us on Twitter (www.twitter.com/handytechhtna) From kc2992a at student.american.edu Mon May 17 11:06:08 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 07:06:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Come to the Mac Academy! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Even though I am not a Mac user, I would probably go to this just so I could approach a Mac... Thanks for the info. Kate On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:31 AM, Hai Nguyen wrote: > Sales contact: > Dave Wright > 651-636-5184 > sales at handytech.us > > > > Come to the Mac Academy! > > Due to overwhelming response to the Mac Academy Workshops being > offered by Handy Tech North America, the June 14-16 class has been sold out. > The good news is that two more have been added for July and August of 2010 > at the Handy Tech facility in Columbia Heights, MN and more are being > scheduled around the United States and Canada. Please check the Handy Tech > North America Web site for Mac training being offered at a location near > you. > > Description > > This 5 day intensive workshop is designed to teach participants how to > use the Voiceover screen reader that is installed on every Apple computer > running the OSX10.6 Snow Leopard operating system. > > Each day will consist of group instruction, time for practice, and > personalized one on one instruction. > > Topics covered include, setting up an Apple computer and using > Voiceover out of the box, understanding the various elements, menus, and > dialogs encountered within the OS, and the many applications that come > pre-installed; word processing, browsing the internet, iTunes, file > management and much more. > > Participants who do not already own an Apple computer will be provided > one to use while in class and participants may also purchase a computer as > part of the training so that they may take home the computer which they have > been working with during the workshop. > > "Apple is the clear front runner in terms of off the shelf > accessibility" states Earle Harrison, President and Founder of Handy Tech > North America, "and we are proud to be among the first adaptive technology > companies to offer such an in-depth and comprehensive class on this > exciting and ever evolving technology." > > Who should attend? > > Adaptive technology trainers, vision teachers, technicians and > rehabilitation professionals. Any blind or low vision professional or > student interested in learning the free Voiceover screen reader included > with every Apple Macintosh computer running the Snow Leopard OSX10.6 > operating system, with the goal of becoming more competitive with their > sighted classmates or co-workers. > > Time > > The first Mac Academy is scheduled to take place at the Handy Tech > North America training center in Columbia Heights, Minnesota beginning > Monday, June 14 until Friday, June 18, 2010. > > Cost > > The cost for this event is $1,000.00 per participant (this price does > not include travel, lodging or food expenses). > > Maximum Capacity > > This class has a maximum capacity of 12 participants. There will be > two instructors to insure quality one on one instruction. > > Accommodation/Special Group Rate > > Special room rates are available at the LivINN Suites located less > than a mile from the training center. Complimentary transportation from the > hotel to the training center will be provided by Handy Tech North America. > Participants who choose to stay at a different hotel will be responsible for > their own transportation. > > Questions? > > As always, please don't hesitate to contact Handy Tech North America > should you have any questions whatsoever. We look forward to your > participation. > > Phone: 651-636-5184; Email: info at handytech.us. > > Registration > > The link below will take you to a page where you can find out more > about the hotel and how to register for the class: > > www.handytech.us/mac_academy_reg.html. > > > > Follow us on Twitter > (www.twitter.com/handytechhtna) > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From mewhalen at gmail.com Mon May 17 11:29:28 2010 From: mewhalen at gmail.com (Meghan Whalen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 06:29:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> <40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> Message-ID: This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to incorporate it into the resources page. Thanks much, Meghan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.J. Meddaugh" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to > navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. > > Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think > of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on one > side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, bathrooms, > etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and > even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two > different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A > gates on the left and the B gates on the right. > > > In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. So > you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've > traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to > travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to you. > You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. > > If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the > hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as > needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible to > not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one > personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a > personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can > generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit > larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled > out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on luggage > and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can go > straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or > any airline agents messing with your reservation. > > Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate > hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use > text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline and > flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for American > Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current > information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. > While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport > website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. > > Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander > down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, > cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will often > have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better > websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be > found, such as the nearest gate. > > Who's next? > Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. > > > J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com > A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe Orozco" > To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" > > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM > Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >> Dear all, >> >> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of >> the >> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >> actions, >> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >> of >> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >> for >> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >> our >> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >> first >> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >> >> How To Files - Traveling by Air >> >> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible >> to >> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >> make >> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to >> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >> rates >> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >> being >> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like >> the >> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >> the >> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >> stand >> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >> need >> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >> your >> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >> if >> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >> Southwest. >> >> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >> will >> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but >> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most >> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to >> do >> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >> ask >> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and >> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your >> plane headed to the same destination. >> >> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >> made >> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >> the >> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >> Cujo >> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >> has >> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll >> get >> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >> said >> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >> flight. >> >> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're >> at >> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >> to >> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler >> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >> your >> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is >> to >> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >> walking >> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite >> characters. >> >> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same >> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you >> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >> real >> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >> >> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get >> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask >> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their >> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey >> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to >> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >> >> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >> find >> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative >> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >> and >> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >> sounds >> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >> the >> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >> through >> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >> admonishing >> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >> >> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >> even >> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >> be >> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >> the >> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and >> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a >> phone. >> >> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter >> the >> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >> Ask >> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >> when >> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >> until >> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >> finger >> in the right direction. >> >> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >> through >> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately >> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and >> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think >> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers >> may learn a thing or two. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com > From marrie12 at gmail.com Mon May 17 12:01:25 2010 From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 05:01:25 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: There is a list for talking about macs and how to operate them. It is called the mac visionaries list. It is on google groups so search for it there. Also I'm working on a set of mac podcasts from a beginner's perspective. My contact info including the podcast link to the mac cast and other random bits are below if you need anything. Sarah Alawami msn: chellist at hotmail.com website: http://music.marrie.org twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1 podcast link: http://marrie.podbean.com On May 16, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Domonique Lawless wrote: > Dennis, > > I am not currently using a mac but Voc Rehab is purchasing one for me > and it should be here soon. I'll post more on it when I get it. If you > have any questions though please feel free to email me and I'll see > what I can find out. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/16/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> there is a type of kurzwiel for the mac >> this should help you out: >> http://maccessibility.net/guides/all/ >> On May 16, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: >> >>> Hello Domonique, >>> I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be >>> some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only >>> around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. >>> >>> Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari >>> on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently >>> with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, >>> flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover is >>> more able to handle such pages. >>> >>> I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing from >>> you when you have a moment. >>> >>> All the best, >>> Dennis >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac >>> >>> >>>> Dennis, >>>> With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and >>>> want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would >>>> be best. I hope this helps! >>>> >>>> Domonique >>>> >>>> On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >>>>> Hello Mac users, >>>>> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >>>>> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is >>>>> the >>>>> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand that >>>>> the >>>>> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >>>>> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode >>>>> and >>>>> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >>>>> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" >>>>> back >>>>> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look forward >>>>> to >>>>> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Dennis >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Joe: >>>>>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>>>>> results. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your questions are addressed below: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility >>>>>> changed >>>>>> in >>>>>> terms of the screen reader? >>>>>> >>>>>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely simplified >>>>>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>>>>> usability. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its >>>>>> not >>>>>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. >>>>>> Also, >>>>>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>>>>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>>>>> >>>>>> If you had to >>>>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? I >>>>>> know >>>>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation >>>>>> you >>>>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do Macs >>>>>> use >>>>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor >>>>>> that >>>>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>>>> >>>>>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>>>>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>>>>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>>>>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's >>>>>> version >>>>>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is 100% >>>>>> inaccessible. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Complete control. >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the >>>>>> Mac) >>>>>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy >>>>>> iWork. >>>>>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>>>>> inaccessible. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its >>>>>> quirks >>>>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>>>>> great >>>>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>>>>> wondering >>>>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>>>>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you >>>>>> won't >>>>>> >>>>>> use that. >>>>>> >>>>>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus features. >>>>>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>>>>> >>>>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>>>> >>>>>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid it >>>>>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>>>>> >>>>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>>>>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope that helps. >>>>>> Jorge >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com From steve.jacobson at visi.com Mon May 17 14:08:03 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:08:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes forforgettingblindteen In-Reply-To: <000f01caf56c$8d58a370$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: Peter, I'm glad that chartering works for you, but it really isn't practical for most people or for most trips. We shouldn't have to charter an aircraft to get the service and treatment that others are getting. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:56:29 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote: >Hello J.J. and everyone, >, > If you charter an entire airplane the whole aircraft cabin and hold are >yours no Fed-X required. >Peter Donahue >----- Original Message ----- >From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:39 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes >forforgettingblindteen >Charter a plane? Why not Fedex? >I know of lots of people doing this to avoid checked bag fees and the like. >J.J. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter Donahue" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 2:30 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for >forgettingblindteen >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >> Unless you charter your own plane. Problems solved! We'll be doing that >> this year as a result of having $1000.00 of professional recording >> equipment >> damaged by lovable Southwest Airlines. Add moving in to a new place in to >> the mix and you have a prime example of how a blind person can over-come >> issues of that nature despite the cost of doing so. See you in Dallas. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> >> >> My fear is also that because of this, the next time I fly, I'm going to be >> harassed more than I already am. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I appreciate >> one or two offers of help to find my gate or my seat, but grabbing my arm >> and insisting that your job is to help me because I'm blind and must not >> know where I'm going, (yes this has happened quite a few times), is >> ridiculous. This kind of story is going to perpetuate the image that blind >> people are helpless and can't even get off of a plane by themselves. It is >> frustrating to me. I don't know this girl personally, so nothing of what I >> say is meant to be taken that way. But I'd be really embarrassed if this >> story was published about me. >> >> Briley >> On May 15, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: >> >>> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >>> if >>> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >>> do >>> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Sarah Alawami >>> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>> To: nabs list list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>> teen >>> >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>> that >>> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left >>> and >>> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>> April >>> 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>> unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>> the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>> where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>> om >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From gwennacast at gmail.com Mon May 17 13:13:08 2010 From: gwennacast at gmail.com (Allison Manzino) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:13:08 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Instructions on adding BrailleNote as Braille Display Message-ID: <832E25C5-9F0F-47A2-89EE-70D7C95B6BA9@gmail.com> Hi all, Since I have successfully just paired my BrailleNote with my Macbook I decided to include step by step instructions for those who might be having the same trouble. It's finiky at best, but it does work after several attempts. If you are having trouble, you are welcome to E-mail me offlist and we can chat either by messenger or via Skype. As someone who loves to have the flexibility of the Braille display, I can't picture living without it and would love to assist anyone who is having difficulty. Here are the steps I take. 1. On the BrailleNote press O Chord. 2. Press C which will bring up the connectivity menu. 3. Navigate to Bluetooth and hit enter. 4. If Bluetooth is off press Y to turn it on 5. After turning Bluetooth on, go down to where it says search for devices. 6. Press Y for yes. 7. Once the BrailleNote finds the Macbook, press enter. 8. Navigate to Active sync and press enter. 9. If the BrailleNote is paired with the Macbook press R to remove the pairing. You may have to do this several times until the Braillenote reports that the pairing has been removed. 10. Once this has occured, pair the Macbook with the BrailleNote again by hitting active sync under Macbook in list of Bluetooth devices. 11. A dialog will be displayed and ask if you would like to pair the BrailleNote with the Mac. Hit Y for Yes. It will ask you for an authentication code. Type number sign 0000 in regular braille not nemeth code. Then hit enter. 12. The Macbook will display a pairing request you type 0000 in to the box that comes up and hit Pair. The Braillenote will display paired. 13. Then from the main menu of the BrailleNote hit T which will put it in to terminal mode. Hit B for Bluetooth port if it's not the default port. It will say Braille terminal. Bluetooth. Hit enter again and the Macbook should begin displaying. I hope my instructions are clear and not confusing. I need a second cup of coffee. I hope that helps, I wish the BrailleNote stayed connected to the Macbook all the time without having to pair every single time. Wonder if it's because I have an older BrailleNote Mpower and not the Apex. Well, take care and thank you to Erik and all for assisting me with this problem. Your patience are greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Allison -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. From spangler.robert at gmail.com Mon May 17 16:31:41 2010 From: spangler.robert at gmail.com (Robert Spangler) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 12:31:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Real Estate Licenses In-Reply-To: <1EF123CE215545018F697BC751AA8104@Gateway> References: <1EF123CE215545018F697BC751AA8104@Gateway> Message-ID: I would like to hear thoughts on this as well as I have been interested in this type of business. On 5/16/10, Jennifer Aberdeen wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone successfully gone to real estate school and then taken the exam? > > Would a job in the real estate industry be something I could do without much > trouble? > > Jen > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/spangler.robert%40gmail.com > -- Robert Spangler The University of Toledo Student Senator - Administrative Affairs Committee Chair, College of Arts and Sciences From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Mon May 17 19:09:07 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:09:07 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter References: Message-ID: <012d01caf5f4$6d680780$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Steve and everyone, While still more costly than traveling on the airlines private air charter does have advantages over this traditional mode of air transportation. Air taxis are bringing the cost of private air travel down to within range of individuals or small groups who want to fly to airports closer to their final destination, to avoid many of the problems faced by blind airline passengers and passengers in general, and have a superior air travel experience. If there are small groups of federationists willing to depart and return to the same airports this is an exciting new direction we can take when traveling by air. If each member of a group pays a portion of the cost or if fundraisers are undertaken to finance such a venture it is possible to enjoy a privilege once reserved only for the rich and famous. My experience with Southwest Airlines last year fired our interest in finding another way to fly particularly as we were facing issues that fell outside of the blindness realm. Ten years ago the late Michael C. Osborn made it his personal crusade to insure that those who used guide dogs could bring them in to the United Kingdom without the dog's having to undergo the long six-month quarantine period and to be able to accompany its owner in the aircraft cabin on the inbound leg of the trip. This campaign was later joined by many in the assistance dog community including the NFB. His campaign was a smashing success. It is now possible to bring guide dogs to the UK that meet the eligibility rules for entry under the UK'S Pet Travel Scheme without the dog needing to undergo quarantine and guide dogs can accompany blind persons in the airplane cabin on both legs of their trip to the UK. It was possible to have a guide dog accompany its blind owner in the plane cabin when flying in to the UK aboard an air charter before it became possible to do so on a scheduled airline. In Mike's spirit as a result of what happened last summer I made it my personal crusade to seek out a new direction when it comes to traveling by air and want to urge others to consider this possibility particularly if you live in areas with airports not served by the airlines. This may not be practical for every situation but it's another option to consider. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airlineapologizes forforgettingblindteen Peter, I'm glad that chartering works for you, but it really isn't practical for most people or for most trips. We shouldn't have to charter an aircraft to get the service and treatment that others are getting. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:56:29 -0500, Peter Donahue wrote: >Hello J.J. and everyone, >, > If you charter an entire airplane the whole aircraft cabin and hold are >yours no Fed-X required. >Peter Donahue >----- Original Message ----- >From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:39 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes >forforgettingblindteen >Charter a plane? Why not Fedex? >I know of lots of people doing this to avoid checked bag fees and the like. >J.J. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter Donahue" >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 2:30 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for >forgettingblindteen >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >> Unless you charter your own plane. Problems solved! We'll be doing >> that >> this year as a result of having $1000.00 of professional recording >> equipment >> damaged by lovable Southwest Airlines. Add moving in to a new place in to >> the mix and you have a prime example of how a blind person can over-come >> issues of that nature despite the cost of doing so. See you in Dallas. >> >> Peter Donahue >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 8:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> >> >> My fear is also that because of this, the next time I fly, I'm going to >> be >> harassed more than I already am. I'm a 23 year old woman, and I >> appreciate >> one or two offers of help to find my gate or my seat, but grabbing my arm >> and insisting that your job is to help me because I'm blind and must not >> know where I'm going, (yes this has happened quite a few times), is >> ridiculous. This kind of story is going to perpetuate the image that >> blind >> people are helpless and can't even get off of a plane by themselves. It >> is >> frustrating to me. I don't know this girl personally, so nothing of what >> I >> say is meant to be taken that way. But I'd be really embarrassed if this >> story was published about me. >> >> Briley >> On May 15, 2010, at 8:17 PM, Harry Hogue wrote: >> >>> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, >>> even >>> if >>> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; >>> they >>> do >>> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Sarah Alawami >>> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>> To: nabs list list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>> teen >>> >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>> that >>> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left >>> and >>> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>> who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>> went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>> April >>> 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>> Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>> unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>> the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>> where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>> om >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >> >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From jorgeapaez at mac.com Mon May 17 22:09:07 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:09:07 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Message-ID: <89E6E941-2346-43A8-97C8-9F1405F7125D@mac.com> Peter: You have a very good point. Specially for us here in NYC, who live close to the HQs for some of these charter companies. Might be a good idea to, for example, use it as a way to get to Albany or Buffolo for our state conventions and not have to depend on a sighted driving member to take us there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against using other ways of transportation to get there, and I'm certainly not against sighted friends helping out when needed, but it is a choice to consider if one wants independent travel without having to rely on anyone outside the group. Jorge From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue May 18 00:57:24 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:57:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter References: <89E6E941-2346-43A8-97C8-9F1405F7125D@mac.com> Message-ID: <004c01caf625$184b95b0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello "George and everyone, If your chapter or affiliate is willing to do some high-stepping fundraising this is a viable alternative but be practical. Unless you have members that have unusual circumstances that prevent them from traveling on a schedualed carrier or if a situation exists where using an air charter service would be preferable such as to prevent damage to sensitive equipment or if the event is held in an area not served by the airlines for example. Many of these companies can arrange for ground transportation to your departure airport and from the arrival airport to your final destination in addition to the flight itself. Many times your limmo or shuttle will pull up planeside. Your security clearances amount to nothing more than a check of identification and the Government watch lists and a brief inspection of your baggage. You arrange in advance with the charter company the kind of in fligyht catering or entertainment you want on board. I could go on forever on this subject but let our example speak for itself. So far as I know the few blind people I know who flew on a charter or a private flight were treated far better than they were by the airlines. The incentive for private air charter companies to treat all passengers as humans and not as animals is far greater than that of the airlines. The mistreatment of even one passenger can determine the future success of an air charter company hence they go above and beyond the call of duty to insure their customers have a wonderful experience with them. Of course some will do a better job than others but the over-all experience is far superior to that of scheduled air travel. If anyone wants to learn more about private air travel here are a few sites to visit: Air Charter Guide: http://www.aircharterguide.com Air Taxi World: http://www.airtaxiworld.com These are just a few sites for you to begin exploring the World of private jet and air charter. All the best. Peter Donahue Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Peter: You have a very good point. Specially for us here in NYC, who live close to the HQs for some of these charter companies. Might be a good idea to, for example, use it as a way to get to Albany or Buffolo for our state conventions and not have to depend on a sighted driving member to take us there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against using other ways of transportation to get there, and I'm certainly not against sighted friends helping out when needed, but it is a choice to consider if one wants independent travel without having to rely on anyone outside the group. Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From jty727 at gmail.com Tue May 18 02:03:58 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:03:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad Message-ID: Hey to All! Hope alls awesome with you all. I'm thinking highly of after I'm done with my Undergraduate education of going on to Law school because I really would like to go into Disability Law, but I'm not really sure how to go about this. I've done many google searches for it, but couldn't find what I was looking for. Any help I'd greatly appreciate it Justin Young From ccook01 at knology.net Tue May 18 02:37:00 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:37:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Phoenix Message-ID: Just an update, I am 3 weeks in to my program at the University of Phoenix. So far I am finding it rewarding and interesting. I had however forgotten how much I hate working on papers! And I must say having one week in witch to research and polish a 6 page paper is worse than an intire semester. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue May 18 02:38:10 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:38:10 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter In-Reply-To: <004c01caf625$184b95b0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> References: <89E6E941-2346-43A8-97C8-9F1405F7125D@mac.com> <004c01caf625$184b95b0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Message-ID: <331435A32E4F48EA8EABBEF298CDDD7A@Rufus> Hi Peter, I've seen so many posts about your charter flight it's redonkulous. But, humor me. How much is it going to cost to fly private from San Antonio to Dallas, a trip which if memory serves is about four hours and approximately 250 miles by car? Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 8:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Hello "George and everyone, If your chapter or affiliate is willing to do some high-stepping fundraising this is a viable alternative but be practical. Unless you have members that have unusual circumstances that prevent them from traveling on a schedualed carrier or if a situation exists where using an air charter service would be preferable such as to prevent damage to sensitive equipment or if the event is held in an area not served by the airlines for example. Many of these companies can arrange for ground transportation to your departure airport and from the arrival airport to your final destination in addition to the flight itself. Many times your limmo or shuttle will pull up planeside. Your security clearances amount to nothing more than a check of identification and the Government watch lists and a brief inspection of your baggage. You arrange in advance with the charter company the kind of in fligyht catering or entertainment you want on board. I could go on forever on this subject but let our example speak for itself. So far as I know the few blind people I know who flew on a charter or a private flight were treated far better than they were by the airlines. The incentive for private air charter companies to treat all passengers as humans and not as animals is far greater than that of the airlines. The mistreatment of even one passenger can determine the future success of an air charter company hence they go above and beyond the call of duty to insure their customers have a wonderful experience with them. Of course some will do a better job than others but the over-all experience is far superior to that of scheduled air travel. If anyone wants to learn more about private air travel here are a few sites to visit: Air Charter Guide: http://www.aircharterguide.com Air Taxi World: http://www.airtaxiworld.com These are just a few sites for you to begin exploring the World of private jet and air charter. All the best. Peter Donahue Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Peter: You have a very good point. Specially for us here in NYC, who live close to the HQs for some of these charter companies. Might be a good idea to, for example, use it as a way to get to Albany or Buffolo for our state conventions and not have to depend on a sighted driving member to take us there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against using other ways of transportation to get there, and I'm certainly not against sighted friends helping out when needed, but it is a choice to consider if one wants independent travel without having to rely on anyone outside the group. Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue 1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Tue May 18 02:41:01 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:41:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DB88643630C4DAD992C1438219CF167@Rufus> What exactly are you trying to find? You'll need to register to take the LSAT, preferably during the fall semester of your senior year. June administrations are probably better though reputedly more difficult since this is the heaviest exam period. I'm sure we can help with other questions, but I'm not sure if you're wondering about the exam, law school itself or the field of disability law. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:04 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad Hey to All! Hope alls awesome with you all. I'm thinking highly of after I'm done with my Undergraduate education of going on to Law school because I really would like to go into Disability Law, but I'm not really sure how to go about this. I've done many google searches for it, but couldn't find what I was looking for. Any help I'd greatly appreciate it Justin Young _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jty727 at gmail.com Tue May 18 02:54:33 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:54:33 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad In-Reply-To: <0DB88643630C4DAD992C1438219CF167@Rufus> References: <0DB88643630C4DAD992C1438219CF167@Rufus> Message-ID: Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. What I was looking for is if anyone knows of a law school offering a program in Disability Law. I appreciate the help Joe on the LSAts cuz I wasn't really sure how that worked On 5/17/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > What exactly are you trying to find? You'll need to register to take the > LSAT, preferably during the fall semester of your senior year. June > administrations are probably better though reputedly more difficult since > this is the heaviest exam period. I'm sure we can help with other > questions, but I'm not sure if you're wondering about the exam, law school > itself or the field of disability law. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:04 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad > > Hey to All! > Hope alls awesome with you all. I'm thinking highly of after I'm done > with my Undergraduate education of going on to Law school because I > really would like to go into Disability Law, but I'm not really sure > how to go about this. I've done many google searches for it, but > couldn't find what I was looking for. > Any help I'd greatly appreciate it > Justin Young > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5122 (20100517) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue May 18 04:03:21 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:03:21 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: <39331A444DFD4AAAA0881C347BDD00D1@labarre> Greetings: Since I last wrote, we had been blessed with a few days of relatively little change and signs of improvement. Today, however, is another one of those days with a bump in the road. Unfortunately, Ray suffered a stroke today. The doctors cannot predict ultimately how this will affect Ray. It is simply too early to tell. The good sign is that he has been stable since and he is moving all of his limbs around and has been over-breathing the respirator often. He also has a blood clot in his lung that they are discussing how to treat. One method is to insert through a catheter a filter in his artery would prevent that clot from either lodging in his heart or his brain. This afternoon I went down to the hospital and spent well over a half an hour in Ray's room, holding his hand and talking to him. My sense is that he is fighting this hard and that he has definitely not given up despite these bumps in the road. The strength emanating from Ray is palpable. We need to keep our prayers and thoughts focused on him. Diane told me again how very much she appreciates everyone's messages, prayers, thoughts, and love. Keep them coming! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From ccook01 at knology.net Tue May 18 04:14:50 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 00:14:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge In-Reply-To: <39331A444DFD4AAAA0881C347BDD00D1@labarre> References: <39331A444DFD4AAAA0881C347BDD00D1@labarre> Message-ID: Scott, Thanks for updating us. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:03 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB of Colorado Discussion List Cc: Jernigan, Mary Ellen; Dr. Maurer; Lisa Bonderson; Wadia, Kristina Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Greetings: Since I last wrote, we had been blessed with a few days of relatively little change and signs of improvement. Today, however, is another one of those days with a bump in the road. Unfortunately, Ray suffered a stroke today. The doctors cannot predict ultimately how this will affect Ray. It is simply too early to tell. The good sign is that he has been stable since and he is moving all of his limbs around and has been over-breathing the respirator often. He also has a blood clot in his lung that they are discussing how to treat. One method is to insert through a catheter a filter in his artery would prevent that clot from either lodging in his heart or his brain. This afternoon I went down to the hospital and spent well over a half an hour in Ray's room, holding his hand and talking to him. My sense is that he is fighting this hard and that he has definitely not given up despite these bumps in the road. The strength emanating from Ray is palpable. We need to keep our prayers and thoughts focused on him. Diane told me again how very much she appreciates everyone's messages, prayers, thoughts, and love. Keep them coming! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue May 18 05:08:05 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 01:08:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Message-ID: <20100518050805.10954.88177@web1> I've been reading all these responses with interest and would like to chime in. First, I don't think anyone is directly condemning this woman. Instead, I think the real question we're asking is this: what are the systems in place that put this woman in this particular situation? I think the other question some are asking is: what were you (the woman in the plane) thinking? I personally think that's a fair question and one that deserves asking. Surely, self preservation would kick in at some point and allow her to do something for herself whether she had additional disabilities or not. She did eventually, and that's a good thing. Maybe our role as potential mentors is to help her get that self preservation thing going a little sooner. More than that, our role as Federationists is to break down the systems that teach blind people not to think for ourselves in a variety of situations. For those of us on list reminding others not to judge, what I'm really hearing is that victim blaming is not helpful. And frankly, it isn't. Victim blaming removes responsibility from the power structures that create situations like these and removes the emphasis on the real question at hand which is, in my opinion, what systems created this situation and perpetuate situations like this and what do we do about them as a Federation and as individual Federationists? Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > hello all, > I'm not quite ready to jump to a judgement here,but I certainly can > see why some of the responces to this post have taken the tone > that they have either way. > If it were me, I would have been off of that plane with the rest of > the passangers. But, it wasn't me; it was another person with a > different background who's expiriences with their blindness and > around blind people are different thanmine. > I don't know what this young lady was thinking at the time; for all > I know, she could be way more independent than I and for all I know > could have other things going on beyond blindness. > I feel like some of our best work as federationests is in not only > education and empowerment, but guideing others, and doing so with > a level of understanding and objective thinking that is in line > with our movements greatest leaders. So, if we are to interact with > a person such as the person featured in this article, I feel like we > ought to consider how to best communicate that there are ways to > effectivly handle situations like this one. If we want to let this > person know that the NFB is available (and I think that we should) > given the oppertunity is the right one, then take advantage of an > oppertunity to expose someone to something different. > I know that if I was approached by a person who was to say " why > don't you just do ____ this way, it's so simple", I'm not too sure > I'd want to hear anything this seemingly judgemental person is > saying to me; who do they think they are? > Just my two bits and fifty cents > Darian > On 5/15/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. >> First, we don't know if there were other >> disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any >> independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is >> largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the >> more blatent situations I have heard of, but over >> the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall >> through the cracks when one turns over >> one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see >> the airlines as figures of authority who cannot >> be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this >> story that we need to control our own destinies >> and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be >> careful of condemning her, though, without >> knowing more. >> Best regards, >> Steve Jacobson >> On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: >>> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >>> if >>> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >>> do >>> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of Sarah Alawami >>> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>> To: nabs list list >>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>> teen >>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >>> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >>> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April >>> 7 >>> stopover in Chicago. >>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>> check of the plane. >>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>> sorry." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>> om >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> http://www.eset.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- > Darian Smith > Skype: The_Blind_Truth > Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com > “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are > spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue May 18 05:24:46 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History Message-ID: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter can't have given a better suggestion! Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many sighted persons I know. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hello Peter, > I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example > of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would > be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily > bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of > a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >> Hello Briley and everyone, >> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal >> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of >> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much >> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead >> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, >> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard >> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than >> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; >> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >> activities. >> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down >> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and >> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All >> the best. >> Peter Donahue >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Briley Pollard" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >> blindteen >> Valory, >> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What >> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media >> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >> acceptable. >> Briley >> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>> to point fingers. >>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>> sighted help in everything. >>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>> quickly. >>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>>> sometimes I don't. >>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>> cope. >>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>> who >>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>> went >>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>> April 7 >>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>> Ten >>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>> unscheduled >>>>> check of the plane. >>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>>> the >>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>> where >>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>>> sorry." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Tue May 18 05:49:46 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:49:46 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> Message-ID: <1A94DECB8FE843FFB87BA14F4398F473@stanford.edu> I have one question out of curiosity. Are there instructions on the emergency exit door? If so, are they in Braille? If not, should they be? Just some more food for thought. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter can't > have given a better suggestion! > > Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines think > we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency exits, > asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, and > altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For those who > think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and worth > fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as fifteen can sit > there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding or on the plane) > can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with the exceptions of > the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and the otherwise visibly > disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less competent, in the > opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. Others are allowed to > judge their fitness for sitting there, but we cannot. Is that worth > fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how society thinks of us in > this context is very indicative of how society thinks of us in others. > This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately quite true. The bottom line > here is that blind people are treated arbitrarily based on someone else's > opinion of what we can do versus our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind > is not limited to disability in our past, but has also been used to > separate People of Color from White folks back in the day and even now to > an often invisible extent. That's why Federationists fought. > Unfortunately, we did lose that battle, but that doesn't mean that we > won't reserect it someday. I hope we do as I consider myself more capable > of opening that exit than many sighted persons I know. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> Hello Peter, > >> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Hello Briley and everyone, > >>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>> equal >>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind >>> of >>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>> much >>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>> bulkhead >>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>> post-board, >>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>> guard >>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>> than >>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. > >>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>> row; >>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>> the >>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>> activities. >>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>> or >>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>> down >>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>> and >>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>> All >>> the best. > >>> Peter Donahue > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>> blindteen > > >>> Valory, > >>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>> was >>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>> What >>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>> Media >>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>> acceptable. > >>> Briley > > >>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. > >>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>> judgement >>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>> we >>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>> unfair >>>> to point fingers. > >>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>> needs >>>> sighted help in everything. > >>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>> and >>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > >>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > >>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > >>>>> Hello Sarah and all, > >>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>>> quickly. > >>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>> and >>>>> sometimes I don't. > >>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > >>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>> cope. > >>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>> due >>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > >>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>> can >>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>> turn >>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>>> who >>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>> went >>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>> April 7 >>>>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>>> Ten >>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>> check of the plane. > >>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>> and >>>>>> the >>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>> news >>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>>> where >>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>> said >>>>>> sorry." > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 18 09:13:35 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 04:13:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Big trade-in values when you upgrade to the thinnest, lightest, note taker available! Message-ID: >From: "HumanWare" >To: "david.andrews at nfbnet.org" >Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 01:32:08 +1000 >Subject: Big trade-in values when you upgrade to >the thinnest, lightest, note taker available! > > > >HumanWare logo. The power is in your hands > > > > >[] > > > > >Big trade-in values when you upgrade to the >thinnest, lightest, note taker available! > > >Call it spring cleaning, or cash for clunkers, >this is the time to trade up to the amazingly >popular BrailleNote Apex, now available with 32 >or 18 refreshable Braille cells. > >Whether you have a BrailleNote Classic, mPower >or a different brand of note taker, HumanWare >will extend a generous trade-in value when you >upgrade to the latest and greatest! > >The BrailleNote Apex offers cutting-edge >technology, exceptional ergonomics, built-in >WiFi, Ethernet, VGA visual display connectivity >and more memory and storage options. Here are >just a few of the compelling advantages and tempting reasons to upgrade: > * Available with a Braille or standard > QWERTY keyboard to suit your preference > * Choose a 32- or 18-cell refreshable Braille display > * Built-in WiFi 802.11 b/g protocol for easy Internet and email access > * 3 high-speed USB ports to connect printers, embossers, flash drives > * User-replaceable battery pack for continuous use > * Super thin and weighs less than 1.8 lbs > * Acclaimed KeySoft with Dictionary & > Thesaurus*, Nemeth Tutorial*, Sendero GPS* (*optional extensions) > >Visit >www.humanware.com/apex >to learn more about the Apex! > >A wide range of various brands and models will >be accepted for the trade-in program: >BrailleNote & VoiceNote Classics, BrailleNote & >VoiceNote mPower, BrailleNote PK, Braille n >Speak, Type n Speak, Braille Lite, BrailleSense, >VoiceSense, PAC Mate. (Trade-in units must be in >working order and trade in value will be based >on the age and condition of the unit.) > >CALL OR EMAIL US NOW TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SPECIAL OFFER! > >800-722-3393 or us.info at humanware.com > >©2010 HumanWare. >Unsubscribe >from this newsletter. > > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From vgc732 at optonline.net Tue May 18 09:51:43 2010 From: vgc732 at optonline.net (Vincent Chaney) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 04:51:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fw: Thru Our Eyes interviews, Wed. May 19, diabetes, tech tips, book reviews, etc Message-ID: Thru Our Eyes announces a doubleheader of education, information and inspiration! On Wednesday, May 19, at 8:00 EDT, Joe Ruffalo, member of the NFB board of directors and affiliate president in New Jersey, will host an hour interview with a timely topic on diabetes. Joe and his guests, Jerry Munden, vice president of business development for Prodigy Diabetes Care and Jordan Benis, chief operations officer for Advanced Diabetic Solutions will discuss the following: The history of each of the companies Their company's blood glucose monitors, the Prodigy Voice and the Solo V2 The importance of blood glucose monitoring by all diabetics Medicare and private insurance coverage for the audible blood glucose monitors and the difficulties experienced by many Jerry Munden will discuss the Prodigy Count-a-Dose and other products by Prodigy Diabetes Care available now and to come. Jordan Benis will speak about ADS and the other diabetic products they have, I.e. socks, shoes, slippers, etc. The objective for this very educational and informative interview is to provide the diabetic audience the knowledge of audible, accessible tools and information in their choice of a monitor and other diabetic products. Immediately following, The Bright Side will conduct an informative interview hosted by Jane Degenshein, a member of the at large chapter of the NFBNJ and leader of Eyes Closed, Hearts Open, ECHO and Jerry Moreno, president of a local chapter in North Carolina and a long time member of the NFB who will interview, Rebecca Irvin, member of the NFBNJ, northern chapter, Braille tutor, active member in her community and a true leader. Also highlighted will be Jerry's tech tips and Jane's book reviews. How to access Thru Our Eyes: Logging into www.thruoureyes.org or for JAWS users, www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html If you wish to call in a question or comment, please dial 1 888 572 0141 From peggychong at earthlink.net Tue May 18 10:03:39 2010 From: peggychong at earthlink.net (Peggy Chong) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 05:03:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Used Braille Books Needed for 2010 Braille Book Flea Market Message-ID: It is that time again. Donate your gently used but no longer needed braille books to the 2010 Braille Book Flea Market sponsored by the National Organization of Parents of Blind Children and the National Association to Promote the Use of Braille to be held at our national convention in Dallas TX. Books should be in good condition. Cookbooks, twin-vision books and books suitable for children are greatly needed. Do not forget those twin-vision books. We always run short. Box up the books so they do not get damaged during shipping and tape the box closed. Books can be sent Free Matter for the Blind to the following address. Vanessa Pena UPS Customer Counter 10155 Monroe Dallas, TX 75229 Search through the boxes in your basement and spare room and get your Braille book donations ready for shipping. If you have any questions, contact me, Peggy Chong at 515-277-1288 or e-mail at peggychong at earthlink.net. From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 18 10:31:52 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 05:31:52 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <1A94DECB8FE843FFB87BA14F4398F473@stanford.edu> References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> <1A94DECB8FE843FFB87BA14F4398F473@stanford.edu> Message-ID: There are, to the best of my knowledge printed instructions on exit row doors -- or windows. The airlines would however take the position that there is no need to put Braille there, because according to the Air Transportation Carrier Act, or whatever it is called, it is illegal for blind persons to sit there anyway. Dave At 12:49 AM 5/18/2010, you wrote: >I have one question out of curiosity. Are there instructions on the >emergency exit door? If so, are they in Braille? If not, should >they be? Just some more food for thought. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Tue May 18 12:41:15 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:41:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge In-Reply-To: <39331A444DFD4AAAA0881C347BDD00D1@labarre> References: <39331A444DFD4AAAA0881C347BDD00D1@labarre> Message-ID: Thanks for the update. Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 11:03 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB of Colorado Discussion List Cc: Jernigan, Mary Ellen; Dr. Maurer; Lisa Bonderson; Wadia,Kristina Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Greetings: Since I last wrote, we had been blessed with a few days of relatively little change and signs of improvement. Today, however, is another one of those days with a bump in the road. Unfortunately, Ray suffered a stroke today. The doctors cannot predict ultimately how this will affect Ray. It is simply too early to tell. The good sign is that he has been stable since and he is moving all of his limbs around and has been over-breathing the respirator often. He also has a blood clot in his lung that they are discussing how to treat. One method is to insert through a catheter a filter in his artery would prevent that clot from either lodging in his heart or his brain. This afternoon I went down to the hospital and spent well over a half an hour in Ray's room, holding his hand and talking to him. My sense is that he is fighting this hard and that he has definitely not given up despite these bumps in the road. The strength emanating from Ray is palpable. We need to keep our prayers and thoughts focused on him. Diane told me again how very much she appreciates everyone's messages, prayers, thoughts, and love. Keep them coming! Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2879 - Release Date: 05/17/10 01:26:00 From brileyp at gmail.com Tue May 18 12:56:04 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:56:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen In-Reply-To: <20100518050805.10954.88177@web1> References: <20100518050805.10954.88177@web1> Message-ID: <727153F3-FBFF-4463-9FCA-CB3D0285C7D7@gmail.com> Hi Jedi, I won't restate everything I said, but I think some people here are missing the point as to why this news story is so disturbing. It isn't this specific person that is the issue. I don't know her, none of us do, and like you said, victim blaming gets nowhere. However, it is the news story itself that depicts the larger issue here; how we are perceived by a sighted public. The fact that she was seen as a victim is the problem. Whether we have the whole story or not isn't important. The point is that both an airline and media outlets thought it was appropriate to portray blind people as incompetent and in need of custodial treatment by others. This woman wasn't necessarily a victim of the big bad airlines, but she is one of a society that still puts her into that helpless mindset. That is the tragedy of this situation. Briley On May 18, 2010, at 12:08 AM, Jedi wrote: > I've been reading all these responses with interest and would like to chime in. > > First, I don't think anyone is directly condemning this woman. Instead, I think the real question we're asking is this: what are the systems in place that put this woman in this particular situation? I think the other question some are asking is: what were you (the woman in the plane) thinking? I personally think that's a fair question and one that deserves asking. Surely, self preservation would kick in at some point and allow her to do something for herself whether she had additional disabilities or not. She did eventually, and that's a good thing. Maybe our role as potential mentors is to help her get that self preservation thing going a little sooner. More than that, our role as Federationists is to break down the systems that teach blind people not to think for ourselves in a variety of situations. > > For those of us on list reminding others not to judge, what I'm really hearing is that victim blaming is not helpful. And frankly, it isn't. Victim blaming removes responsibility from the power structures that create situations like these and removes the emphasis on the real question at hand which is, in my opinion, what systems created this situation and perpetuate situations like this and what do we do about them as a Federation and as individual Federationists? > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> hello all, >> I'm not quite ready to jump to a judgement here,but I certainly can >> see why some of the responces to this post have taken the tone >> that they have either way. >> If it were me, I would have been off of that plane with the rest of >> the passangers. But, it wasn't me; it was another person with a >> different background who's expiriences with their blindness and >> around blind people are different thanmine. >> I don't know what this young lady was thinking at the time; for all >> I know, she could be way more independent than I and for all I know >> could have other things going on beyond blindness. >> I feel like some of our best work as federationests is in not only >> education and empowerment, but guideing others, and doing so with >> a level of understanding and objective thinking that is in line >> with our movements greatest leaders. So, if we are to interact with >> a person such as the person featured in this article, I feel like we >> ought to consider how to best communicate that there are ways to >> effectivly handle situations like this one. If we want to let this >> person know that the NFB is available (and I think that we should) >> given the oppertunity is the right one, then take advantage of an >> oppertunity to expose someone to something different. >> I know that if I was approached by a person who was to say " why >> don't you just do ____ this way, it's so simple", I'm not too sure >> I'd want to hear anything this seemingly judgemental person is >> saying to me; who do they think they are? >> Just my two bits and fifty cents >> Darian > > > > >> On 5/15/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. >>> First, we don't know if there were other >>> disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any >>> independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is >>> largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the >>> more blatent situations I have heard of, but over >>> the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall >>> through the cracks when one turns over >>> one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see >>> the airlines as figures of authority who cannot >>> be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this >>> story that we need to control our own destinies >>> and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be >>> careful of condemning her, though, without >>> knowing more. > >>> Best regards, > >>> Steve Jacobson > >>> On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: > >>>> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >>>> if >>>> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>>> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >>>> do >>>> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. > > >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>> Of Sarah Alawami >>>> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>>> To: nabs list list >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>>> teen > >>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >>>> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >>>> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April >>>> 7 >>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>>> check of the plane. > >>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>> sorry." > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>>> om > >>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>>> database 4733 (20091231) __________ > >>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >>>> http://www.eset.com > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > > > >> -- >> Darian Smith >> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >> “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >> spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From agrima at nbp.org Tue May 18 13:37:39 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 09:37:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> Message-ID: <84D6254025B84972845FB7E4DCC5619B@nbp2.local> Hi all - I just wanted to de-lurk and mention that National Braille Press is publishing a new book on traveling next month - Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight, by Wendy David - and it gets at this sort stuff that you've been discussing here. An early draft description of the book is below. We'll be announcing it (and the pricing) when it rolls off the press in a couple of weeks - I'll post the announcement to this list. Best, Tony Grima, NBP DRAFT DESCRIPTION: "I once had an airline escort argue with me that if I didn't get in the wheelchair, he wouldn't show me to the gate. I chose to 'go it alone' and report him later." This gives you a hint of what's inside Wendy David's new book, Sites Unseen: Traveling the World Without Sight. Wendy and her partner Larry, both of whom are blind, have traversed the globe and kissed a few sea lions along the way. "People are always asking us," says David, "how do you manage foreign currency, how do you get through customs with a dog guide, who describes the unique sights to you, or how do you get around countries without public transportation?" I realized I could write a guide on how to travel when blind in a way that enhances the experience." This is not a what-to-see-in-Paris book; this is a how-to book for blind travelers. "There are so many resources out there for travelers with disabilities," says Wendy, "people just don't know about them." In Braille, eBraille, and DAISY From ccook01 at knology.net Tue May 18 14:25:56 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:25:56 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <1A94DECB8FE843FFB87BA14F4398F473@stanford.edu> References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> <1A94DECB8FE843FFB87BA14F4398F473@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Nicole, that might be a good idea. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:50 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History I have one question out of curiosity. Are there instructions on the emergency exit door? If so, are they in Braille? If not, should they be? Just some more food for thought. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter can't > have given a better suggestion! > > Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines think > we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency exits, > asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, and > altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For those who > think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and worth > fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as fifteen can sit > there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding or on the plane) > can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with the exceptions of > the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and the otherwise visibly > disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less competent, in the > opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. Others are allowed to > judge their fitness for sitting there, but we cannot. Is that worth > fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how society thinks of us in > this context is very indicative of how society thinks of us in others. > This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately quite true. The bottom line > here is that blind people are treated arbitrarily based on someone else's > opinion of what we can do versus our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind > is not limited to disability in our past, but has also been used to > separate People of Color from White folks back in the day and even now to > an often invisible extent. That's why Federationists fought. > Unfortunately, we did lose that battle, but that doesn't mean that we > won't reserect it someday. I hope we do as I consider myself more capable > of opening that exit than many sighted persons I know. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> Hello Peter, > >> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Hello Briley and everyone, > >>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>> equal >>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind >>> of >>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>> much >>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>> bulkhead >>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>> post-board, >>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>> guard >>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>> than >>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. > >>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>> row; >>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>> the >>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>> activities. >>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>> or >>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>> down >>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>> and >>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>> All >>> the best. > >>> Peter Donahue > >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>> blindteen > > >>> Valory, > >>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>> was >>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>> What >>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>> Media >>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>> acceptable. > >>> Briley > > >>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. > >>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>> judgement >>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>> we >>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>> unfair >>>> to point fingers. > >>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>> needs >>>> sighted help in everything. > >>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>> and >>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > >>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > >>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > >>>>> Hello Sarah and all, > >>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>>> quickly. > >>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>> and >>>>> sometimes I don't. > >>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > >>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>> cope. > >>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>> due >>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > >>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>> can >>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>> turn >>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>>> who >>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>> went >>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>> April 7 >>>>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>>> Ten >>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>> check of the plane. > >>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>> and >>>>>> the >>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>> news >>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>>> where >>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>> said >>>>>> sorry." > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From hope.paulos at maine.edu Tue May 18 14:36:53 2010 From: hope.paulos at maine.edu (Hope Paulos) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:36:53 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Phoenix References: Message-ID: <4357E81469C14BC88B5868DC9F4905E6@Hope> what are you studying, and how accessible are the courses? Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corey Cook" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Phoenix > Just an update, I am 3 weeks in to my program at the University of > Phoenix. > So far I am finding it rewarding and interesting. > I had however forgotten how much I hate working on papers! > And I must say having one week in witch to research and polish a 6 page > paper is worse than an intire semester. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine.edu From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Tue May 18 14:50:30 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:50:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Message-ID: <20100518145030.9559.65204@web2> Briley, Exactly and well stated. Respectfully Submitted Original message: > Hi Jedi, > I won't restate everything I said, but I think some people here are > missing the point as to why this news story is so disturbing. It isn't > this specific person that is the issue. I don't know her, none of us > do, and like you said, victim blaming gets nowhere. However, it is the > news story itself that depicts the larger issue here; how we are > perceived by a sighted public. The fact that she was seen as a victim > is the problem. Whether we have the whole story or not isn't important. > The point is that both an airline and media outlets thought it was > appropriate to portray blind people as incompetent and in need of > custodial treatment by others. This woman wasn't necessarily a victim > of the big bad airlines, but she is one of a society that still puts > her into that helpless mindset. That is the tragedy of this situation. > Briley > On May 18, 2010, at 12:08 AM, Jedi wrote: >> I've been reading all these responses with interest and would like to chime in. >> First, I don't think anyone is directly condemning this woman. Instead, >> I think the real question we're asking is this: what are the systems in >> place that put this woman in this particular situation? I think the >> other question some are asking is: what were you (the woman in the >> plane) thinking? I personally think that's a fair question and one that >> deserves asking. Surely, self preservation would kick in at some point >> and allow her to do something for herself whether she had additional >> disabilities or not. She did eventually, and that's a good thing. Maybe >> our role as potential mentors is to help her get that self preservation >> thing going a little sooner. More than that, our role as Federationists >> is to break down the systems that teach blind people not to think for >> ourselves in a variety of situations. >> For those of us on list reminding others not to judge, what I'm really >> hearing is that victim blaming is not helpful. And frankly, it isn't. >> Victim blaming removes responsibility from the power structures that >> create situations like these and removes the emphasis on the real >> question at hand which is, in my opinion, what systems created this >> situation and perpetuate situations like this and what do we do about >> them as a Federation and as individual Federationists? >> Respectfully, >> Jedi >> Original message: >>> hello all, >>> I'm not quite ready to jump to a judgement here,but I certainly can >>> see why some of the responces to this post have taken the tone >>> that they have either way. >>> If it were me, I would have been off of that plane with the rest of >>> the passangers. But, it wasn't me; it was another person with a >>> different background who's expiriences with their blindness and >>> around blind people are different thanmine. >>> I don't know what this young lady was thinking at the time; for all >>> I know, she could be way more independent than I and for all I know >>> could have other things going on beyond blindness. >>> I feel like some of our best work as federationests is in not only >>> education and empowerment, but guideing others, and doing so with >>> a level of understanding and objective thinking that is in line >>> with our movements greatest leaders. So, if we are to interact with >>> a person such as the person featured in this article, I feel like we >>> ought to consider how to best communicate that there are ways to >>> effectivly handle situations like this one. If we want to let this >>> person know that the NFB is available (and I think that we should) >>> given the oppertunity is the right one, then take advantage of an >>> oppertunity to expose someone to something different. >>> I know that if I was approached by a person who was to say " why >>> don't you just do ____ this way, it's so simple", I'm not too sure >>> I'd want to hear anything this seemingly judgemental person is >>> saying to me; who do they think they are? >>> Just my two bits and fifty cents >>> Darian >>> On 5/15/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>>> We need to be careful to lay too much blame on her without more information. >>>> First, we don't know if there were other >>>> disabilities involved. Second, you have to fiercely fight for any >>>> independence on airlines, and the fact that we do is >>>> largely because of airlines' actions. Frankly, this might be one of the >>>> more blatent situations I have heard of, but over >>>> the years I've seen and even experienced other cases where one can fall >>>> through the cracks when one turns over >>>> one's independence to the airlines. The fact is that many blind people see >>>> the airlines as figures of authority who cannot >>>> be challenged. This is true especially since 9/11. Let's learn from this >>>> story that we need to control our own destinies >>>> and we need to help others know that is what needs to be done. Let's be >>>> careful of condemning her, though, without >>>> knowing more. >>>> Best regards, >>>> Steve Jacobson >>>> On Sat, 15 May 2010 20:17:14 -0500, Harry Hogue wrote: >>>>> This is ridiculous. At least be proactive in mentioning your needs, even >>>>> if >>>>> you are not comfortable with traveling off the plane yourself. And of >>>>> course, if you make headlines, naturally the airline will apologize; they >>>>> do >>>>> not want the adverse publicity resulting from not apologizing, etc. >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Sarah Alawami >>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 6:19 PM >>>>> To: nabs list list >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind >>>>> teen >>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >>>>> be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >>>>> get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who >>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went >>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April >>>>> 7 >>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten >>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled >>>>> check of the plane. >>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and the >>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., where >>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>>> sorry." >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/harryhogue%40yahoo.c >>>>> om >>>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature >>>>> database 4733 (20091231) __________ >>>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com >>> -- >>> Darian Smith >>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth >>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com >>> “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are >>> spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> -- >> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From ccook01 at knology.net Tue May 18 16:05:13 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:05:13 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Phoenix In-Reply-To: <4357E81469C14BC88B5868DC9F4905E6@Hope> References: <4357E81469C14BC88B5868DC9F4905E6@Hope> Message-ID: Masters of information systems, and so far I have had very little trouble with the materials. Most of the reading is in PDF files. The only accessibility issue I have seems to be the platform they use for discussions. And that is handled with the jaws cursor. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phoenix what are you studying, and how accessible are the courses? Hope and Beignet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corey Cook" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:37 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Phoenix > Just an update, I am 3 weeks in to my program at the University of > Phoenix. > So far I am finding it rewarding and interesting. > I had however forgotten how much I hate working on papers! > And I must say having one week in witch to research and polish a 6 page > paper is worse than an intire semester. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40maine. edu _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From steve.jacobson at visi.com Tue May 18 16:18:36 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:18:36 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> Message-ID: You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are realizing how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an exit row. One thing I forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we were about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that would have not only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would have excluded us from quite a number of seats on some planes. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: >PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >can't have given a better suggestion! >Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >sighted persons I know. >Respectfully, >Jedi >Original message: >> Hello Peter, >> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>> Hello Briley and everyone, >>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure equal >>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind of >>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and much >>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the bulkhead >>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and post-board, >>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our guard >>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more than >>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit row; >>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of the >>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>> activities. >>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing or >>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting down >>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles and >>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. All >>> the best. >>> Peter Donahue >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>> blindteen >>> Valory, >>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it was >>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. What >>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. Media >>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>> acceptable. >>> Briley >>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such judgement >>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while we >>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems unfair >>>> to point fingers. >>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she needs >>>> sighted help in everything. >>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, and >>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>>> quickly. >>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this and >>>>> sometimes I don't. >>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>> cope. >>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our due >>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can >>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn >>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. >>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>>> who >>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>> went >>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>> April 7 >>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>>> Ten >>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>> check of the plane. >>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and >>>>>> the >>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news >>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>>> where >>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said >>>>>> sorry." >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >-- >Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From graduate56 at juno.com Tue May 18 16:49:51 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:49:51 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen References: <1A49F08960584EC3897F9961308214A6@simonc363664ab> <4654CC14-925E-47B7-9DD6-8C5A089E2C48@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all. Darrell and others are correct. We don't know if she has any other disabilities. It is a little strange though that the intire thing happened. I am sure that many people were disciplened for this mishap. IMHO blaming the young woman isn't solving anything. Furthermore there is a lot of information that we don't have concerning the situation. Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sarah Alawami" To: "nabs list list" Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 5:19 PM Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard can that >be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and turn left and >get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > > Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > > Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > > United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island who > was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > > Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she went > public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an April > 7 > stopover in Chicago. > > The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a > connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. Ten > minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an unscheduled > check of the plane. > > She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > > After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher and > the > promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of news > stories later, she finally got one. > > "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., > where > she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they said > sorry." > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf2c5037178451ddecst05duc From kc2992a at student.american.edu Tue May 18 16:59:14 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:59:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad In-Reply-To: References: <0DB88643630C4DAD992C1438219CF167@Rufus> Message-ID: Dear Justin, Syracuse University in New York has a very respected disability law program. Also, American University Washington College of Law has a good disability law clinic, despite not having a set program in disability law. Kate On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Justin Young wrote: > Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. What I was looking for is if > anyone knows of a law school offering a program in Disability Law. I > appreciate the help Joe on the LSAts cuz I wasn't really sure how that > worked > > On 5/17/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > > What exactly are you trying to find? You'll need to register to take the > > LSAT, preferably during the fall semester of your senior year. June > > administrations are probably better though reputedly more difficult since > > this is the heaviest exam period. I'm sure we can help with other > > questions, but I'm not sure if you're wondering about the exam, law > school > > itself or the field of disability law. > > > > Best, > > > > Joe > > > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their > sleeves, > > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young > > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:04 PM > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > > Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad > > > > Hey to All! > > Hope alls awesome with you all. I'm thinking highly of after I'm done > > with my Undergraduate education of going on to Law school because I > > really would like to go into Disability Law, but I'm not really sure > > how to go about this. I've done many google searches for it, but > > couldn't find what I was looking for. > > Any help I'd greatly appreciate it > > Justin Young > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > > info for nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > > %40gmail.com > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > > virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > > database 5122 (20100517) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > > nabs-l: > > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu > -- Kathryn CARROLL American University 631 521 3018 From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Tue May 18 17:06:51 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:06:51 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter References: <89E6E941-2346-43A8-97C8-9F1405F7125D@mac.com><004c01caf625$184b95b0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> <331435A32E4F48EA8EABBEF298CDDD7A@Rufus> Message-ID: <00b101caf6ac$82e58c50$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Joe and everyone, It can cost anywhere from $800.00 to $3000.00 depending on the air charter company and your arrangements with them. ----- We'll be flying with one of our cab drivers who is a pilot and owns his own airplane. We would have spent the same amount if we purchessed two first-class tickets or an entire row of seats if we flew with one of the airlines. And don't forget the baggage fees and all the rest. I'm not only blind but large hence the need for extra seats or the need to book in first class. By the time we added it all up it made more sense to charter a small plane than to travel at the mercy of the airlines. This is just the beginning. You'll hear all about our air charter experience during and following the national convention. I'm wondering if there are other list members who flew on a chartered plane or jet in the past? Peter Donahue Original Message ----- From: "Joe Orozco" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Hi Peter, I've seen so many posts about your charter flight it's redonkulous. But, humor me. How much is it going to cost to fly private from San Antonio to Dallas, a trip which if memory serves is about four hours and approximately 250 miles by car? Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 8:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Hello "George and everyone, If your chapter or affiliate is willing to do some high-stepping fundraising this is a viable alternative but be practical. Unless you have members that have unusual circumstances that prevent them from traveling on a schedualed carrier or if a situation exists where using an air charter service would be preferable such as to prevent damage to sensitive equipment or if the event is held in an area not served by the airlines for example. Many of these companies can arrange for ground transportation to your departure airport and from the arrival airport to your final destination in addition to the flight itself. Many times your limmo or shuttle will pull up planeside. Your security clearances amount to nothing more than a check of identification and the Government watch lists and a brief inspection of your baggage. You arrange in advance with the charter company the kind of in fligyht catering or entertainment you want on board. I could go on forever on this subject but let our example speak for itself. So far as I know the few blind people I know who flew on a charter or a private flight were treated far better than they were by the airlines. The incentive for private air charter companies to treat all passengers as humans and not as animals is far greater than that of the airlines. The mistreatment of even one passenger can determine the future success of an air charter company hence they go above and beyond the call of duty to insure their customers have a wonderful experience with them. Of course some will do a better job than others but the over-all experience is far superior to that of scheduled air travel. If anyone wants to learn more about private air travel here are a few sites to visit: Air Charter Guide: http://www.aircharterguide.com Air Taxi World: http://www.airtaxiworld.com These are just a few sites for you to begin exploring the World of private jet and air charter. All the best. Peter Donahue Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Peter: You have a very good point. Specially for us here in NYC, who live close to the HQs for some of these charter companies. Might be a good idea to, for example, use it as a way to get to Albany or Buffolo for our state conventions and not have to depend on a sighted driving member to take us there. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against using other ways of transportation to get there, and I'm certainly not against sighted friends helping out when needed, but it is a choice to consider if one wants independent travel without having to rely on anyone outside the group. Jorge _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue 1%40sbcglobal.net _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue May 18 18:28:26 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:28:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] additional activation code Message-ID: Hello, My name is Mary Fernandez and my authorization key is: da09d6ecd95ba48dc63c. Could I please get an additional activation, it is for my work computer. Thanks -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From nick at nickgawronski.com Tue May 18 18:20:54 2010 From: nick at nickgawronski.com (Nick Gawronski) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:20:54 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] looking for room mate for National convention Message-ID: <949BD991FC4C431AA59ECD40B5AFFFF9@chihuahuad1> Hi, My name is Nick Gawronski and I already have a room at the main hotel for the National convention and was trying to find a room mate. If anyone is interested and would like to get in touch with me please either email me off list at nick at nickgawronski.com with the subject line convention or something like this so I will know what it is in regards to or just reply privately to this message. You can also call my cell phone or text it at 713-898-5005. Looking forward to convention! Nick Gawronski From jess28 at samobile.net Tue May 18 19:21:09 2010 From: jess28 at samobile.net (Jessica) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:21:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Message-ID: <20100518192109.9559.53460@web2> Jorge, New York City is only about 2 and 45 minutes or so from Albany. So a Greyhound ticket wouldn't be that expensive. Also, I know a bunch of the city folks were up here in Albany about a month or so ago for I believe the legislative activities of the affiltate. And, I believe that they not using greyhound but a low cost bus company. Jessica -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From jty727 at gmail.com Tue May 18 20:02:17 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:02:17 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad In-Reply-To: References: <0DB88643630C4DAD992C1438219CF167@Rufus> Message-ID: Oh really? thanks Kate I'll have to look into them. On 5/18/10, Katy Carroll wrote: > Dear Justin, > > Syracuse University in New York has a very respected disability law program. > Also, American University Washington College of Law has a good disability > law clinic, despite not having a set program in disability law. > > Kate > > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Justin Young wrote: > >> Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. What I was looking for is if >> anyone knows of a law school offering a program in Disability Law. I >> appreciate the help Joe on the LSAts cuz I wasn't really sure how that >> worked >> >> On 5/17/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> > What exactly are you trying to find? You'll need to register to take >> > the >> > LSAT, preferably during the fall semester of your senior year. June >> > administrations are probably better though reputedly more difficult >> > since >> > this is the heaviest exam period. I'm sure we can help with other >> > questions, but I'm not sure if you're wondering about the exam, law >> school >> > itself or the field of disability law. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > Joe >> > >> > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Young >> > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:04 PM >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School after Undergrad >> > >> > Hey to All! >> > Hope alls awesome with you all. I'm thinking highly of after I'm done >> > with my Undergraduate education of going on to Law school because I >> > really would like to go into Disability Law, but I'm not really sure >> > how to go about this. I've done many google searches for it, but >> > couldn't find what I was looking for. >> > Any help I'd greatly appreciate it >> > Justin Young >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> > %40gmail.com >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> > virus signature database 5122 (20100517) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> > database 5122 (20100517) __________ >> > >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> > >> > http://www.eset.com >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > nabs-l mailing list >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> > nabs-l: >> > >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kc2992a%40student.american.edu >> > > > > -- > Kathryn CARROLL > American University > 631 521 3018 > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue May 18 21:50:00 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:50:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] To Charter or Not to Charter Message-ID: Jessica: Thanks for the info. Do you know what company that was? By the way: I was just using charter to Albany as an example, since I don't think the puddle jumpers to Albany from Laguardia are that much. However, charters are an interesting option to have in mind. Jorge From jorgeapaez at mac.com Tue May 18 22:55:36 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:55:36 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen Message-ID: <45805CA8-A406-45C6-80BF-A565178F92C8@mac.com> Agreed. From dlawless86 at gmail.com Tue May 18 23:00:32 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:00:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] additional activation code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mary, I don't think you meant to send this to the list. Just wanted to make sure you knew you sent it to the nabs-l mailing list as well as FS. I hope everything is okay! Best wishes, Domonique On 5/18/10, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hello, > My name is Mary > Fernandez and my authorization key is: da09d6ecd95ba48dc63c. Could I > please get an additional activation, it is for my work computer. > Thanks > > > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From trillian551 at gmail.com Tue May 18 23:06:14 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:06:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] additional activation code In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OOOPS. Not sure how that happened. On 5/18/10, Domonique Lawless wrote: > Hi Mary, > > I don't think you meant to send this to the list. Just wanted to make > sure you knew you sent it to the nabs-l mailing list as well as FS. I > hope everything is okay! > > Best wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/18/10, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> Hello, >> My name is Mary >> Fernandez and my authorization key is: da09d6ecd95ba48dc63c. Could I >> please get an additional activation, it is for my work computer. >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> President Barack Obama >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 19 00:58:14 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:58:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: FAQ on nonvisual development Message-ID: >Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:17:18 -0400 (EDT) >From: Jamal Mazrui >Subject: FAQ on nonvisual development > >Nonvisual Development FAQ > >This is a set of answers to frequently asked questions (FAQ) on the >subject of software development by people who are blind or visually >impaired (blind programmers). The initial version is by Jamal >Mazrui, who may be reached at the address >mailto://jamal at EmpowermentZone.com > >Corrections, modifications, and new topics are solicited for >inclusion in the FAQ. Indicate the question and answer being >addressed. Your name and email address will be listed as a >contributor unless you specify otherwise. > >The current version was posted on >May 18, 2010 >at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/NonvisualDevelopmentFAQ.htm > > > >---------- > >Contents > >Where can I find introductory examples for programming in a >particular language? >Are screen reader configuration sets available for the Microsoft >Visual Studio integrated development environment (IDE)? >Is a free version of Visual Studio available? >Are there tips for using Visual Studio with a screen reader? >Are other IDEs available for .NET development besides Visual Studio? >Is it possible to build .NET programs without Visual Studio? >What accessible text editors may be used for programming? >What tools are recommended for developing with the Java language? >What tools are recommended for developing with the Python language? >Is a simpler language available, e.g., one that does not involve >object oriented programming (OOP)? >Is there an IDE designed with screen reader support? >What screen readers may be customized for applications via scripting >languages? >Is there job training specifically for blind programmers? >What mailing lists exist for blind programmers? >What web sites have resources for blind programmers? >---------- > >Where can I find introductory examples for programming in a >particular language? > >Blind programmers have contributed to a project intended for this >purpose. Specifications and samples of a "fruit basket program" are >at the web site >http://FruitBasket.QuantumMyst.com > >A fruit basket program is intended as a simple but nontrivial >graphical user interface (GUI), exhibiting how a developer may >employ a particular programming language and platform, and how a >user may experience the result. The length and complexity of code >may be considered from a developer standpoint; the accessibility >and performance of the program may be considered from a user standpoint. > >Basically, the user interface contains an edit box for entering a >fruit name (e.g, apple), a listbox for collecting the fruit (the >basket), and buttons to add or delete items. Obviously, such a >program is not inherently useful, but it does offer an informative >example of a development approach, with comparisons possible to >other programs meeting the same criteria. Fruit basket samples are >available for many development approaches. > >---------- > >Are screen reader configuration sets available for the Microsoft >Visual Studio integrated development environment (IDE)? > >Blind programmers have developed a set of JAWS scripts for Visual >Studio (VS), which work with either VS 2005 or VS 2008. They do not >work with VS 2010, which uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) >controls rather than Windows Forms controls. > >The executable installer for the scripts works with 64-bit Windows >and Windows 7, as well as earlier versions of Windows. It is available at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/msenv2005.exe > >Pick your JAWS version in the installer dialog -- the default is the >latest version found on your computer. Otherwise, just press Enter >to accept all defaults of that dialog. > >A zip archive is also available for a manual install at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/msenv2005.zip > >Documentation for the scripts is in the file msenv2005.htm. It >gives steps for manual installation. It also includes a list of >hotkeys and a tutorial on developing a fruit basket program with C# and VS. > >---------- > >Is a free version of Visual Studio available? > >VS comes in various versions with increasing amounts of developer >tools and corresponding costs. The "Express Editions" may be freely >downloaded and used, even in commercial projects. Each Express >Edition is oriented to a particular language or platform: C#, >Visual Basic, Visual C++, or Visual Web Developer (for developing >web sites with ASP.NET). These are available at >http://www.microsoft.com/express/Windows/ > >---------- > >Are there tips for using Visual Studio with a screen reader? > >A collection of tips has been gathered from blind programming lists, >called "Nonvisual Development with .NET," posted at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/ndn.htm > >---------- > >Are other IDEs available for .NET development besides Visual Studio? > >Sharp Develop is an open source, cross platform IDE for .NET >languages, available at >http://www.icsharpcode.net/opensource/sd/ > >Eclipse is an open source, cross-platform IDE for Java and other >languages, available at >http://eclipse.org > >A plug in for C# development with Eclipse is called Emonic, available at >http://emonic.sourceforge.net/ > >---------- > >Is it possible to build .NET programs without Visual Studio? > >C#, Visual Basic, and JScript .NET command-line compilers are part >of the .NET Framework 2.0 Software Development Kit (SDK), which is >freely available at >http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa731542.aspx > >Later versions of the .NET Framework include these command-line >compilers in the distribution of the Framework, itself. Usually, a >shortcut is put on the Windows Start Menu for opening a command >prompt with PATH and other environment variables set so that these >tools are found when run. You could also search your hard disk for >the C# compiler, csc.exe, and then add its directory to your search path. > >---------- > >What accessible text editors may be used for programming? > > >Boxer >http://TextEditor.com > >EdSharp >http://EmpowermentZone.com/edsetup.exe > >NoteTab Pro >http://NoteTab.com > >TextPad >http://TextPad.com > >---------- > >What tools are recommended for developing with the Java language? > >Install the Java Development Kit (JDK) from >http://JavaSoft.com > >Also there is the Java Access Bridge (JAB), which should be >installed for each Java Virtual Machine (JVM) on your computer. A >direct download URL for the JAB is >http://www.renovation-software.com/files/tgsdk/accessbridge-2_0_1.exe > >Eclipse is an accessible IDE especially tailored for Java >development. It is available from >http://eclipse.org > >Also there is the Standard Widget Toolkit (SWT), a Java package that >produces accessible GUIs on Windows and Linux. > >---------- > >What tools are recommended for developing with the Python language? > >Install Python from >http://python.org > >Install the wxPython package for creating accessible GUIs from >http://wxPython.org > >For Windows development, install the Python for Windows extensions at >http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywin32/ > >Also install py2exe, a package for building stand-alone executables from >http://py2exe.org > >In Python, code indentation is syntactically required rather than >stylistically optional. The EdSharp editor includes features that >help screen reader users manage indentation efficiently, available at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/edsetup.exe > >---------- > >Is a simpler language available, e.g., one that does not involve >object oriented programming (OOP)? > >AutoIt is a Visual Basic-like language that is freely available from >http://AutoItScript.com > >---------- > >Is there an IDE designed with screen reader support? > >Sodbeans is being developed at >http://sodbeans.sourceforge.net/ > >---------- > >What screen readers may be customized for applications via scripting >languages? > > >HAL >http://YourDolphin.com > >JAWS >http://FreedomScientific.com > >Nonvisual Desktop Access >http://www.nvda-project.org/ > >Window-Eyes >http://GWMicro.com > >---------- > >Is there job training specifically for blind programmers? > >Lion's World Services For the Blind has a curriculum called >Enterprise Solutions Programming -- a 10-month course which prepares >clients to work in a wide range of programming environments >including .NET and others. Exams for Microsoft Certified >Professional Developer (MCPD) are offered through the program. >http://www.lwsb.org/enterprise_solutions_programming.asp > >---------- > >What mailing lists exist for blind programmers? > > >Blind Geeks -- Where Blind People Learn Programming >http://BlindGeeks.org > >BlindWebbers -- List for blind and visually impaired web authors >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/blindwebbers/ > >dev-accessibility -- Accessibility of Mozilla products to those with >disabilities >https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-accessibility > >GW-Scripting -- Discussion list for information regarding the >development and use of Window-Eyes scripts >http://www.gwmicro.com/Support/Email_Lists/ > >Java Accessibility >http://archives.java.sun.com/cgi-bin/wa?A0=java-access > >JAWSScripts -- For scripting and configuring JAWS >http://www.freelists.org/list/jawsscripts > >LibLouis and LibLouisXML -- List for the discussion and development >of the liblouis and liblouisxml braille translation, >back-translation, and formatting software >http://www.freelists.org/list/liblouis-liblouisxml > >NVDA Developers -- List for development of the Nonvisual Desktop >Access screen reader >http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/Community > >Open A11y of the Linux Foundation >http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/accessibility/email > >program-l -- Discussion group for visually impaired computer programmers >http://www.freelists.org/list/program-l > >ProgrammingBlind -- Programming while blind >http://www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > >---------- > >What web sites have resources for blind programmers? > > >AbilitiesSoft -- Developing software for people with disabilities >http://www.AbilitiesSoft.com/ > >Blind Geeks -- Where Blind People Learn Programming >http://BlindGeeks.org > >Inthane's Grab Bag -- Blind programming assistance >http://GrabBag.AlacornComputer.com > >NonvisualDevelopment -- promoting software development without >visual dependencies >http://NonvisualDevelopment.org > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed May 19 01:12:21 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:12:21 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge In-Reply-To: References: <39331A444DFD4AAAA0881C347BDD00D1@labarre> Message-ID: I just wanted to say that while I have never known Ray on a personal level, I have had the fortune of meeting and speaking to him a few times. I appreciate his strong will and his willingness to talk to you on a personal level. I wishHe anDiane as well, as his federation family in Colorado the best wishes love and prayers right now, as he recovers. Best wishes, Darian Smith On 5/18/10, Rania wrote: > Thanks for the update. > Rania, > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Scott C. LaBarre > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 11:03 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; NFB Affiliate > Presidents List; NFB of Colorado Discussion List > Cc: Jernigan, Mary Ellen; Dr. Maurer; Lisa Bonderson; Wadia,Kristina > Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge > > Greetings: > > Since I last wrote, we had been blessed with a few days of relatively little > change and signs of improvement. Today, however, is another one of those > days with a bump in the road. Unfortunately, Ray suffered a stroke today. > The doctors cannot predict ultimately how this will affect Ray. It is > simply too early to tell. The good sign is that he has been stable since > and he is moving all of his limbs around and has been over-breathing the > respirator often. He also has a blood clot in his lung that they are > discussing how to treat. One method is to insert through a catheter a > filter in his artery would prevent that clot from either lodging in his > heart or his brain. > > This afternoon I went down to the hospital and spent well over a half an > hour in Ray's room, holding his hand and talking to him. My sense is that > he is fighting this hard and that he has definitely not given up despite > these bumps in the road. The strength emanating from Ray is palpable. We > need to keep our prayers and thoughts focused on him. Diane told me again > how very much she appreciates everyone's messages, prayers, thoughts, and > love. Keep them coming! > Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. > > LaBarre Law Offices P.C. > 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 > Denver, Colorado 80222 > 303 504-5979 (voice) > 303 757-3640 (fax) > slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) > www.labarrelaw.com (website) > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged > information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, > copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in > error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, > and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments > are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ > 2510-2521. > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai > l.com > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2879 - Release Date: 05/17/10 > 01:26:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From dlawless86 at gmail.com Wed May 19 01:42:48 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 20:42:48 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac In-Reply-To: References: <205201caefac$eb238f30$6601a8c0@server> <03a701caf4b8$57579d80$6601a8c0@server> Message-ID: Dennis, I'll be getting the 13 inch mac book pro. I just graduated from Belmont University with a degree in German and a minor in Education. I'll be heading to grad school next year to work on my masters as a teacher of blind students and o and m instructor. Best Wishes, Domonique On 5/17/10, Sarah Alawami wrote: > There is a list for talking about macs and how to operate them. It is called > the mac visionaries list. It is on google groups so search for it there. > > Also I'm working on a set of mac podcasts from a beginner's perspective. > > My contact info including the podcast link to the mac cast and other random > bits are below if you need anything. > > > Sarah Alawami > msn: chellist at hotmail.com > website: http://music.marrie.org > twitter: http://twitter.com/marrie1 > podcast link: http://marrie.podbean.com > > On May 16, 2010, at 4:47 PM, Domonique Lawless wrote: > >> Dennis, >> >> I am not currently using a mac but Voc Rehab is purchasing one for me >> and it should be here soon. I'll post more on it when I get it. If you >> have any questions though please feel free to email me and I'll see >> what I can find out. >> >> Best Wishes, >> Domonique >> >> On 5/16/10, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> there is a type of kurzwiel for the mac >>> this should help you out: >>> http://maccessibility.net/guides/all/ >>> On May 16, 2010, at 12:26 AM, Dennis Clark wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Domonique, >>>> I really appreciate hearing from you. My fear was that Fusion would be >>>> some additional expensive program but to my surprise I think it is only >>>> around $80, a virtual bargain in the software world. >>>> >>>> Which Mac computer are you using? Also, do you happen to know if Safari >>>> on the Mac works better then Internet Explorer on Windows? Frequently >>>> with IE, one can have problems accessing webpages that use java links, >>>> flash, and silverlite. Do you happen to know if Safari with Voiceover >>>> is >>>> more able to handle such pages. >>>> >>>> I want to again thank you for your time and I look forward to hearing >>>> from >>>> you when you have a moment. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" >>>> >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 12:52 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Kurzweil on the Mac >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dennis, >>>>> With most programs you can jump back and forth. If you get a mac and >>>>> want to simultaneously run windows then a program called fusion would >>>>> be best. I hope this helps! >>>>> >>>>> Domonique >>>>> >>>>> On 5/9/10, Dennis Clark wrote: >>>>>> Hello Mac users, >>>>>> The various recent post on using the Mac have been really helpful and >>>>>> encouraging. The Windows based program which I most use on Windows is >>>>>> the >>>>>> Kurzweil programs for which there is no Mac version. I understand >>>>>> that >>>>>> the >>>>>> Mac can be run in some sort of Windows simulation mode where windows >>>>>> programs will run. If I were to run Kurzweil in this alternative mode >>>>>> and >>>>>> then need to jump back to the Mac email program or other supplied Mac >>>>>> programs would I have to reboot the computer or can you simply "jump" >>>>>> back >>>>>> and forth between the windows and Mac operating systems? I look >>>>>> forward >>>>>> to >>>>>> hearing about your experience. Thanks for your help. >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Dennis >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Jorge Paez" >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2010 2:20 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Basic Questions About Mac versus Pc >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Joe: >>>>>>> I have run Mac for the last 3 years and I'm extremely happy with the >>>>>>> results. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your questions are addressed below: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. In the most recent platform upgrade, how has the accessibility >>>>>>> changed >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> terms of the screen reader? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It has had vast improvements since its start, with extremely >>>>>>> simplified >>>>>>> interphase and nice twists for the users in terms of shurt-cuts and >>>>>>> usability. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is the screen reader only updated with system >>>>>>> upgrades, or are there ever updates between major upgrades? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For example: I'm running 10.6, but then I've upgraded to 10.6.3. Its >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> always the case, but many of these bring Voice Over updates along. >>>>>>> Also, >>>>>>> if you use iTunes for your music, iTunes may have an update that says >>>>>>> simply "fixes stability issues with Voice Over." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you had to >>>>>>> compare Voiceover to JAWS, how does their functionality break down? >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> it's not fair to compare one to the other because the logic is a bit >>>>>>> different, but I'm hoping you can speak to the level of manipulation >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> have over the applications in your computer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. How easy is it to control documents in the word processor? Do >>>>>>> Macs >>>>>>> use >>>>>>> their own version of MS Office, or is there a native word processor >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> makes Office documents readable? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Their text editor (called Text Edit) is great for almost all types of >>>>>>> documents. I would advice you to get iWork, Apple's version of MS if >>>>>>> you're dealing with Powerpoints, excell, etc. >>>>>>> DO NOT BUY THE MAC MS VERSION BECAUSE IT IS UNACCESSIBLE. Apple's >>>>>>> version >>>>>>> is 100% accessible while the MS made version of their own suite is >>>>>>> 100% >>>>>>> inaccessible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Complete control. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can't say it any simpler. Complete, 100% accessible control. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As far as MS docs, you should be fine with Text Edit (comes with the >>>>>>> Mac) >>>>>>> unless you're dealing with Powerpoint and Excell. In that case buy >>>>>>> iWork. >>>>>>> Don't buy the Mac version of MS done by MS because its 11000% >>>>>>> inaccessible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4. What can you tell us about their e-mail client? Outlook has its >>>>>>> quirks >>>>>>> but is almost 100 percent accessible. Sunbird, by contrast, would be >>>>>>> great >>>>>>> but in my opinion still had some accessibility shortcomings. I'm >>>>>>> wondering >>>>>>> if the same is true of iCal and Mac-based applications? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mac Mail is 100% accessible. All the features are at your fingertips, >>>>>>> literaly, with the exception of stationarry but I honestly think you >>>>>>> won't >>>>>>> >>>>>>> use that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You also have access to create signatures and a ton of bonus >>>>>>> features. >>>>>>> Ical however, is 100% inaccessible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 5. How much freedom do you have with Macs to go outside of iTunes? I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> much care for proprietary packages unless it's unavoidable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> iTunes is the best accessible solution I know. If you want to avoid >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> there are options, but I wouldn't be the person to ask. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 6. Are hardware repairs truly limited to Apple stores? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apple stores and authorized retalors. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Trust me, if you do anyoffice work the Mac will be perfect. >>>>>>> If you're in the field--that's debatable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope that helps. >>>>>>> Jorge >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dennisgclark%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marrie12%40gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From dlawless86 at gmail.com Wed May 19 01:57:12 2010 From: dlawless86 at gmail.com (Domonique Lawless) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 20:57:12 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus> <40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> Message-ID: Joe, This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was able to travel to my gate. My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little frazzled. Best Wishes, Domonique On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: > This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to > incorporate it into the resources page. > > Thanks much, > Meghan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J.J. Meddaugh" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to >> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. >> >> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think >> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on one >> >> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, bathrooms, >> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and >> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A >> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >> >> >> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. So >> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've >> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to >> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to you. >> >> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >> >> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible to >> >> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled >> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on luggage >> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can go >> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or >> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >> >> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline and >> >> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for American >> >> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport >> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >> >> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander >> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will often >> >> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >> found, such as the nearest gate. >> >> Who's next? >> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >> >> >> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of >>> the >>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>> actions, >>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >>> of >>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >>> for >>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >>> our >>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>> first >>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>> >>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible >>> >>> to >>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >>> make >>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to >>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >>> rates >>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >>> being >>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like >>> the >>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >>> the >>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>> stand >>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>> need >>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>> your >>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >>> if >>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >>> Southwest. >>> >>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >>> will >>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but >>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most >>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to >>> do >>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >>> ask >>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and >>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your >>> plane headed to the same destination. >>> >>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >>> made >>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >>> the >>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >>> Cujo >>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >>> has >>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll >>> get >>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>> said >>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >>> flight. >>> >>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're >>> >>> at >>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >>> to >>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler >>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >>> your >>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is >>> to >>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>> walking >>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite >>> characters. >>> >>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same >>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you >>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>> real >>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>> >>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get >>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask >>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their >>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey >>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to >>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>> >>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>> find >>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative >>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >>> and >>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>> sounds >>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >>> the >>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>> through >>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>> admonishing >>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>> >>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>> even >>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >>> be >>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >>> the >>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and >>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a >>> phone. >>> >>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter >>> the >>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >>> Ask >>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >>> when >>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >>> until >>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>> finger >>> in the right direction. >>> >>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>> through >>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately >>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and >>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think >>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers >>> may learn a thing or two. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 19 02:31:37 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 22:31:37 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI Message-ID: This could possibly be the dorkiest post I ever did write, but are there any American Idol fans? Did you see Lee tonight? I mean, butter my butt and call me a biscuit! That was friggin amazing! Vote! Vote! Vote! Okay, silly chick moment over. Ahem, use your cane, maintain your dog, read Braille and whatever else makes this list relevant. Hahaha, seriously, I think NABS needs an informal discussion forum to vent nonsense to break from the otherwise serious stuff. Amused, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From brileyp at gmail.com Wed May 19 02:56:03 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 21:56:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I vote yes. I think an off topic list would be appropriate. Maybe a Google group? I was home and totally forgot about AI. So sad. I always watch it. Have made a point of forgetting about the days since I graduated. Briley On May 18, 2010, at 9:31 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > This could possibly be the dorkiest post I ever did write, but are there any > American Idol fans? Did you see Lee tonight? I mean, butter my butt and > call me a biscuit! That was friggin amazing! Vote! Vote! Vote! Okay, > silly chick moment over. Ahem, use your cane, maintain your dog, read > Braille and whatever else makes this list relevant. Hahaha, seriously, I > think NABS needs an informal discussion forum to vent nonsense to break from > the otherwise serious stuff. > > Amused, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From marsha.drenth at gmail.com Wed May 19 12:42:25 2010 From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 08:42:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DC11A89ACF84B2E937F33D1A87CB9D1@Cptr233> Joe, Good Girlie moment, that should go down in the books. Lee was great, but I want Crystal to win! But to be fair I voted for both Lee and Crystal, becuz I want Kasey out of there! Yes Yes Yes back to business. Sorry this is not on topic. He started it! Marsha -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:32 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI This could possibly be the dorkiest post I ever did write, but are there any American Idol fans? Did you see Lee tonight? I mean, butter my butt and call me a biscuit! That was friggin amazing! Vote! Vote! Vote! Okay, silly chick moment over. Ahem, use your cane, maintain your dog, read Braille and whatever else makes this list relevant. Hahaha, seriously, I think NABS needs an informal discussion forum to vent nonsense to break from the otherwise serious stuff. Amused, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai l.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5127 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5127 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From oceanrls at hotmail.com Wed May 19 13:57:49 2010 From: oceanrls at hotmail.com (Rachel Jacobs) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 13:57:49 +0000 Subject: [nabs-l] brand new KNFB phone for sale at a reasonable cost! Message-ID: Hello. My name is Rachel Jacobs, and I am trying to sell a brand new KNFB phone. It has never been used and I am willing to sell it at a much lower cost. All offers are welcome. Please contact me at oceanrls at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 From trillian551 at gmail.com Wed May 19 15:14:44 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 11:14:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI In-Reply-To: <8DC11A89ACF84B2E937F33D1A87CB9D1@Cptr233> References: <8DC11A89ACF84B2E937F33D1A87CB9D1@Cptr233> Message-ID: I'm totally surprised Kasey is actually still there. And crystal is totally going to win, but Lee is awesome! lol. Ok, I'm at work, so inappropriate. lol. Mary On 5/19/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Joe, > > Good Girlie moment, that should go down in the books. Lee was great, but I > want Crystal to win! But to be fair I voted for both Lee and Crystal, becuz > I want Kasey out of there! > > Yes Yes Yes back to business. Sorry this is not on topic. He started it! > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:32 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI > > This could possibly be the dorkiest post I ever did write, but are there any > American Idol fans? Did you see Lee tonight? I mean, butter my butt and > call me a biscuit! That was friggin amazing! Vote! Vote! Vote! Okay, > silly chick moment over. Ahem, use your cane, maintain your dog, read > Braille and whatever else makes this list relevant. Hahaha, seriously, I > think NABS needs an informal discussion forum to vent nonsense to break from > the otherwise serious stuff. > > Amused, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5127 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5127 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 19 19:00:26 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:00:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus><40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> Message-ID: <0288416474C94CCE930732D25B8051EE@Rufus> Dear all, Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and no doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and future. A few more thoughts: 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it has been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the dog will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all that's required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take the initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes to your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person sitting next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if not headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable to ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if you are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never knows when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. Some of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the support rails in one of the crowded DC subways. 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find my luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster of bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some other colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if you want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in technology will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. We all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but do take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground people are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of their concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from one gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and no doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air is not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or negotiating a restaurant. Best, Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments up to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is here for. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Joe, This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was able to travel to my gate. My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little frazzled. Best Wishes, Domonique On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: > This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to > incorporate it into the resources page. > > Thanks much, > Meghan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J.J. Meddaugh" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to >> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. >> >> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think >> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on one >> >> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, bathrooms, >> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and >> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A >> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >> >> >> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. So >> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've >> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to >> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to you. >> >> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >> >> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible to >> >> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled >> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on luggage >> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can go >> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or >> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >> >> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline and >> >> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for American >> >> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport >> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >> >> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander >> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will often >> >> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >> found, such as the nearest gate. >> >> Who's next? >> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >> >> >> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of >>> the >>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>> actions, >>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >>> of >>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >>> for >>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >>> our >>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>> first >>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>> >>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible >>> >>> to >>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >>> make >>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to >>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >>> rates >>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >>> being >>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like >>> the >>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >>> the >>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>> stand >>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>> need >>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>> your >>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >>> if >>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >>> Southwest. >>> >>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >>> will >>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but >>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most >>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to >>> do >>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >>> ask >>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and >>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your >>> plane headed to the same destination. >>> >>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >>> made >>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >>> the >>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >>> Cujo >>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >>> has >>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll >>> get >>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>> said >>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >>> flight. >>> >>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're >>> >>> at >>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >>> to >>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler >>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >>> your >>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is >>> to >>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>> walking >>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite >>> characters. >>> >>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same >>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you >>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>> real >>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>> >>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get >>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask >>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their >>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey >>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to >>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>> >>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>> find >>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative >>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >>> and >>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>> sounds >>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >>> the >>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>> through >>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>> admonishing >>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>> >>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>> even >>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >>> be >>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >>> the >>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and >>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a >>> phone. >>> >>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter >>> the >>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >>> Ask >>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >>> when >>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >>> until >>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>> finger >>> in the right direction. >>> >>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>> through >>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately >>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and >>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think >>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers >>> may learn a thing or two. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes tmidi.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen %40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless 86%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5129 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 19 19:03:55 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:03:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI In-Reply-To: References: <8DC11A89ACF84B2E937F33D1A87CB9D1@Cptr233> Message-ID: <670CE7759EAE45609B471843045D42B5@Rufus> Girlfriend, are we tuned into the same show? Lee is so totally the better singer, but alas, I think the choir and extravagant production may have turned off some of the public. We'll see. *grin* Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Fernandez Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 11:15 AM To: marsha.drenth at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] O/T AI I'm totally surprised Kasey is actually still there. And crystal is totally going to win, but Lee is awesome! lol. Ok, I'm at work, so inappropriate. lol. Mary On 5/19/10, Marsha Drenth wrote: > Joe, > > Good Girlie moment, that should go down in the books. Lee was great, but I > want Crystal to win! But to be fair I voted for both Lee and Crystal, becuz > I want Kasey out of there! > > Yes Yes Yes back to business. Sorry this is not on topic. He started it! > > Marsha > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:32 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI > > This could possibly be the dorkiest post I ever did write, but are there any > American Idol fans? Did you see Lee tonight? I mean, butter my butt and > call me a biscuit! That was friggin amazing! Vote! Vote! Vote! Okay, > silly chick moment over. Ahem, use your cane, maintain your dog, read > Braille and whatever else makes this list relevant. Hahaha, seriously, I > think NABS needs an informal discussion forum to vent nonsense to break from > the otherwise serious stuff. > > Amused, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.d renth%40gmai > l.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5127 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 5127 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian 551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5129 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5129 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 19 19:53:26 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:53:26 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [vilam] How (And When) to Motivate Yourself Message-ID: <01589F55064D489BA90E7E00871E141A@Rufus> I hope the article below is of good use to some of the students and budding professionals here. Every now and then it does not hurt to get the extra kick.--Joe Orozco Subject: [vilam] How (And When) to Motivate Yourself How (And When) to Motivate Yourself - Peter Bregman - Harvard Business Review http://blogs.hbr.org/bregman/2010/05/how-and-when-to-motivate-yours.html I woke up this morning to pouring rain and temperatures in the low 40s. I had planned on going for an early bike ride in Central Park but now I wasn't so sure. I like to get some exercise every day and given my commitments for the rest of the day, this was my only opportunity. But did I really want to get so wet and cold? I decided to go for it, though I continued to question myself as I put on my biking clothes and got my bike out of the basement. I paused under the awning of our apartment building, as rain streamed down on either side of me. A friend of mine, Chris, happened to be dashing home to avoid the rain and stopped under the awning for a second. "Great day for a bike ride," he said, before running on. He's right, I thought, this is dumb. I stayed under the awning for a few more minutes as I considered retreating into the warmth of my apartment. Finally, knowing that I'd feel great after a good, hard ride, I got on my bike and took off, pedaling hard. The initial sting of the cold rain had me questioning myself again but I kept going. Then, after less than five minutes, the rain stopped bothering me. And after a few more minutes, it felt kind of good. Invigorating. It turned out to be a great ride. When I got back to the apartment building - drenched, a little muddy, and with a big smile on my face - one of my neighbors commented on how motivated and disciplined I was to be out on a day like that. But he was wrong. My ride in the rain taught me a good lesson about motivation and discipline: we need it less than we think. "I didn't need to be motivated for long," I laughed. "Just long enough to get outside." Because once I was already in the rain, it took no discipline to keep riding. Getting started was the hard part. Like getting into a cold pool. Once you're in, it's fine. It's getting in that takes motivation. In fact, when you think about it, we only need to be motivated for a few short moments. Between those moments, momentum or habit or unconscious focus takes over. I write at least one post a week. Does that take discipline? Sure. But when I break it down, the hardest part - the part for which I need the discipline - is sitting down to write. I'll find all sorts of things to distract me from starting. But if I can get myself to start a post, I don't need much discipline to finish it. Need willpower to work on something difficult? Ask yourself when you need that willpower the most. Received feedback that you should talk less in meetings? Figure out when are you most susceptible to blabbing on. Trying to maintain a commitment to yourself or someone else? Identify the times when you are most at risk of violating that commitment. Then, whatever you do, don't give up in the moments when you're most vulnerable. Don't give up the bike ride while standing under the awning watching it rain. Even when your friend tells you you're crazy to go out. In other words, never quit a diet while reading the dessert menu. It's too tempting. That's not the right time to second-guess your commitment. It's precisely the time to use your willpower and discipline. We waste a lot of time, energy, and focus second-guessing ourselves. Am I doing the right work? Is this project worthwhile? Is this employee going to work out? That moment-by-moment deliberation is a distraction at best and sabotage at worst. If you keep asking yourself whether a project is worth working on, you'll reduce your effort on that project - who wants to spend time on something that might fail? - and doom its success. On the other hand, it's impossible to ignore those feelings of uncertainty. The solution? Schedule them. Create an established time to second-guess yourself, a time when you know your commitment won't be weakened by the temptations of the moment. If you're going to break the diet, do it when your need for willpower is at its lowest. Decide to decide the next day, maybe after a healthy breakfast or a little exercise, when you know your inclination to stick to your goals will be naturally high. Then, if you decide to stay on the diet, commit fully and powerfully until the next scheduled time to deliberate. Knowing you have a planned pause allows you to focus and concentrate without hesitation until the established time to second guess yourself. And if you do eventually decide to change your commitment, you'll know it's not from momentary weakness. It'll be a strategic, rational, intentional decision. What's important is that your moment of choice is when you are in the right state of mind - when you need the least willpower - to make the best decision. Which is why, sitting here at my computer, dry, comfortable, and having had a great ride today, I decided to go out again tomorrow. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5129 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed May 19 20:35:01 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:35:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] [musictlk] Music technology presentation/q&A as well as guitar lessons at the upcoming NFB convention in Dallas this July Message-ID: <7C048E94-A4CF-4EB4-B0EB-232CFE793194@mac.com> No. I'm just using Voice Over. I have the recording area accessible but can't do anything with editing/mixing because Voice Over refuces to work in that area. Would that help me? Jorge From jorgeapaez at mac.com Wed May 19 20:40:35 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:40:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] O/T AI Message-ID: Mailinglist yes. But please, no google group, or it would eliminate those of us, myself included who don't use Gmail. From davidb521 at gmail.com Wed May 19 20:41:29 2010 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:41:29 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <0288416474C94CCE930732D25B8051EE@Rufus> Message-ID: <4bf44d05.0652640a.02d6.fffffb77@mx.google.com> Hi, Another technique for finding bags is to have some tactile identification on the bag. You can actually kneel in front of the carousel, and feel every bag that goes by until you discover yours. The down side to that is that it's a little uncomfortable, and if your arms aren't long enough, you may not be able to feel all of the bags that are farther back. But, it works well for the most part. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:00 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Dear all, Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and no doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and future. A few more thoughts: 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it has been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the dog will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all that's required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take the initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes to your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person sitting next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if not headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable to ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if you are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never knows when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. Some of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the support rails in one of the crowded DC subways. 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find my luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster of bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some other colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if you want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in technology will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. We all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but do take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground people are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of their concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from one gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and no doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air is not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or negotiating a restaurant. Best, Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments up to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is here for. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Joe, This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was able to travel to my gate. My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little frazzled. Best Wishes, Domonique On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: > This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to > incorporate it into the resources page. > > Thanks much, > Meghan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J.J. Meddaugh" > To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing > list" > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to >> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. >> >> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think >> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on one >> >> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, bathrooms, >> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and >> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A >> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >> >> >> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. So >> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've >> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to >> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to you. >> >> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >> >> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible to >> >> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled >> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on luggage >> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can go >> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or >> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >> >> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline and >> >> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for American >> >> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport >> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >> >> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander >> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will often >> >> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >> found, such as the nearest gate. >> >> Who's next? >> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >> >> >> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Joe Orozco" >> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some of >>> the >>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>> actions, >>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >>> of >>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >>> for >>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >>> our >>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>> first >>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>> >>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as possible >>> >>> to >>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >>> make >>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult to >>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >>> rates >>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >>> being >>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations like >>> the >>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >>> the >>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>> stand >>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>> need >>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>> your >>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >>> if >>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >>> Southwest. >>> >>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >>> will >>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, but >>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is most >>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have to >>> do >>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >>> ask >>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, and >>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on your >>> plane headed to the same destination. >>> >>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >>> made >>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >>> the >>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >>> Cujo >>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >>> has >>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, you'll >>> get >>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>> said >>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >>> flight. >>> >>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While you're >>> >>> at >>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >>> to >>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent traveler >>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >>> your >>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it is >>> to >>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>> walking >>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your favorite >>> characters. >>> >>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the same >>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless you >>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>> real >>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>> >>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to get >>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just ask >>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in their >>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your journey >>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely to >>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>> >>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>> find >>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the representative >>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >>> and >>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>> sounds >>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >>> the >>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>> through >>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>> admonishing >>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>> >>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>> even >>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >>> be >>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >>> the >>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out and >>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up a >>> phone. >>> >>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to encounter >>> the >>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >>> Ask >>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >>> when >>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >>> until >>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>> finger >>> in the right direction. >>> >>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>> through >>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and ultimately >>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying and >>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you think >>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent travelers >>> may learn a thing or two. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes tmidi.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen %40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless 86%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5129 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From kramc11 at gmail.com Wed May 19 22:09:21 2010 From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 18:09:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <4bf44d05.0652640a.02d6.fffffb77@mx.google.com> References: <4bf44d05.0652640a.02d6.fffffb77@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <13A0D7B4432C4E909FEB07B675452E86@SonyPC> I put a large duct tape "M" on the side of my bag. It is extremely visible, and quite unique. And, if you have to, you can quickly peel it off if you have to look professional. BTW duct tape fixes everything. Lol. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Hi, > Another technique for finding bags is to have some tactile identification > on > the bag. You can actually kneel in front of the carousel, and feel every > bag > that goes by until you discover yours. The down side to that is that it's > a > little uncomfortable, and if your arms aren't long enough, you may not be > able to feel all of the bags that are farther back. But, it works well for > the most part. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Dear all, > > Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people > register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and > no > doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and > future. > > A few more thoughts: > > 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it > has > been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the > dog > will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk > through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all > that's > required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra > frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take > the > initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes to > your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. > > 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person > sitting > next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet > know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if > not > headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable > to > ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if > you > are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or > luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your > experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes > sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never > knows > when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to > people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. > Some > of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the > support > rails in one of the crowded DC subways. > > 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find > my > luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't > beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster > of > bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some other > colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if you > want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. > > 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in technology > will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. We > all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but > do > take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground people > are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash > registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric > carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. > > Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain > airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of > their > concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the > easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change > planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough > questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from one > gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and no > doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air > is > not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or > negotiating a restaurant. > > Best, > > Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments > up > to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is > here for. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Joe, > This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can > incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be > intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a > trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that > I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at > the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my > hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking > me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how > she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could > travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was > able to travel to my gate. > > My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the > right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick > you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm > and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline > personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not > give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week > has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little > frazzled. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the > best way to >> incorporate it into the resources page. >> >> Thanks much, >> Meghan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> While airports can often seem like some of the most > confusing places to >>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple > of points. >>> >>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many > airports, think >>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of > the gates on one >>> >>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift > shops, bathrooms, >>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on > one side and >>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, > such as the A >>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>> >>> >>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from > each other. So >>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many > gates you've >>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right > concourse is to >>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is > nearest to you. >>> >>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>> >>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you > may save the >>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket > flagged as >>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often > very feasible to >>> >>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their > carry-on. It can >>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow > bags a bit >>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't > be singled >>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to > carry-on luggage >>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the > airport, you can go >>> straight through security to your gate without your seat > being moved or >>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>> >>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If > you can use >>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with > your airline and >>> >>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa > 2500" for American >>> >>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi > Internet access. >>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually > the airport >>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>> >>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can > either wander >>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses > clanging, >>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's > website will often >>> >>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>> >>> Who's next? >>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our > members. Some of >>>> the >>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact > same thing in >>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>> actions, >>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to > address a myriad >>>> of >>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, > devote a week >>>> for >>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is > managing the NABS >>>> website these days could create individual pages with a > compilation of >>>> our >>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. > Here's my >>>> first >>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>> >>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as > comfortable as possible >>>> >>>> to >>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is > possible to >>>> make >>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves > difficult to >>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that > the telephone >>>> rates >>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result > in your not >>>> being >>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while > organizations like >>>> the >>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will > need to find >>>> the >>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. > If at all >>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid > having to >>>> stand >>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in > luggage, you'll >>>> need >>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but > checking into >>>> your >>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to > choose your seat >>>> if >>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless > you're flying >>>> Southwest. >>>> >>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most > airline counters >>>> will >>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>> considerations that different airports are set up in > different ways, but >>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an > entrance that is most >>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now > all you have to >>>> do >>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound > difficult? >>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people > walking by to >>>> ask >>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling > suitcases and >>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your > questions, and >>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who > could be on your >>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>> >>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that > staying in line is >>>> made >>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane > to gently tap >>>> the >>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a > guide dog, ask >>>> Cujo >>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person > ahead of you >>>> has >>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this > before, you'll >>>> get >>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free > to engage >>>> said >>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may > be on your >>>> flight. >>>> >>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. > While you're >>>> >>>> at >>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. > If you're >>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since > you don't want >>>> to >>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a > diligent traveler >>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure > of finding >>>> your >>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around > exploring than it is >>>> to >>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>> walking >>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to > your favorite >>>> characters. >>>> >>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your > characters need to >>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, > it's the same >>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your > independence unless you >>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I > assure you >>>> real >>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>> >>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do > not try to get >>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the > airport. Just ask >>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People > vary in their >>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break > up your journey >>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be > less likely to >>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>> >>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your > task is to >>>> find >>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the > representative >>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the > direction they gave >>>> and >>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can > confirm these >>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>> sounds >>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here > the beep of >>>> the >>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>> through >>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>> admonishing >>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>> >>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. > This is not >>>> even >>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point > for blind and >>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you > don't want to >>>> be >>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while > generally holding up >>>> the >>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be > taken out and >>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find > out what is >>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not > work, pick up a >>>> phone. >>>> >>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going > to encounter >>>> the >>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and > identification. >>>> Ask >>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal > detectors. Remember >>>> when >>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make > sure you fully >>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, > keep trying >>>> until >>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>> finger >>>> in the right direction. >>>> >>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>> through >>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants > and ultimately >>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do > while flying and >>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any > details you think >>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even > frequent travelers >>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes > tmidi.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen > %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless > 86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5129 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com > From dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net Wed May 19 22:40:19 2010 From: dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net (Dennis Clark) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 15:40:19 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Air Travel Law Message-ID: <012d01caf7a4$429db750$6601a8c0@server> Hello everyone, Given the lively discussion during the past few days on the list concerning airline travel and questions as to what conduct is permited by the airlines and what is not, I am posting an excellent summary of the Air Carrier Access Act below. This wonderful exerpt is taken from a document titled DISABILITY LAW HANDBOOK written by Jacquie Brennan and Published by the DBTAC Southwest ADA Center. The document from which this is taken discusses many aspects of disability law and if you would like the complete document visit www.southwestADA.org where it can be downloaded for free. The title page states the following: This book is printed courtesy of the National Network of ADA Centers. There are a number of national training, technical assistance and resource development initiatives provided by the DBTACs. Additional information about these is available in the National DBTAC Initiatives section of this booklet. Copyright © 2009. All rights reserved. The information in this book is intended solely as informal guidance and is neither a determination of your legal rights or responsibilities under the Americans with Disabilities Act or other laws, nor binding on any agency with enforcement responsibility under the ADA and other disability-related laws. The following exerpt on the Air Carrier Access Act begins on page 43. Air Travel What disability law applies to air carriers? The Air Carrier Access Act. Is this a new law? Not really. It was passed by Congress in 1986. In 1990, the Department of Transportation published implementing regulations. The Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA) is supposed to minimize the special problems that travelers with disabilities face as they navigate through the complex air travel system. Does this law cover all kinds of disabilities or only mobility impairments? It does cover all kinds of disabilities. Under the ACAA, an individual with a disability is a person who has a physical or mental impairment that, on a permanent or temporary basis, substantially limits one or more major life activities, has a record of such an impairment, or is regarded as having such an impairment. If you are familiar with the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), then you may notice that the ACAA definition of an individual with a disability is almost identical to the ADA definition. There is one important difference, though. The ACAA covers even temporary disabilities, like broken bones. So airlines have to let people with disabilities on flights? Yes. Airlines cannot refuse a passenger just because that passenger has a disability. Also, airlines cannot limit the number of people with disabilities on a particular flight. Any information that other passengers get must also be provided to people with disabilities. The only exceptions are if the individual with a disability would endanger the health or safety of other passengers or violate an FAA safety rule, or if the plane has fewer than 30 seats and there are no lifts or boarding chairs available that can adapt to the space limitations of such a small plane. Can the air carrier require me to provide proof of my disability? An air carrier must not require any kind of proof as a condition for the provision of transportation, except in some very limited circumstances. If a person is traveling in a stretcher or incubator, needs medical oxygen during a flight, or if there is reasonable doubt that the person can complete the flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, then the air carrier may require a written statement from a physician saying that the passenger is capable of completing the flight without requiring extraordinary assistance during the flight. It must be dated within ten days of the initial departing flight. The air carrier may also require such a written statement if the passenger has a communicable disease that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety to others on the flight. In that case, the physician statement should say that the disease or infection would not, under present conditions in the patient's case, be communicable to other people during the normal course of a flight. It should also state what precautions should be taken to prevent transmission and it must be written within ten days of the flight for which it is presented. Do I have to give the airline advance notice that I will be on a flight, if I have a disability? Maybe. A carrier must not require a passenger with a disability to give advance notice that s/he will be traveling on a flight. However, if the passenger with a disability will require certain specific services, then advance notice must be provided. An air carrier may require that a passenger with a disability who requires carrier-supplied inflight medical oxygen give up to 72 hours' advance notice on international flights and 48 hours' advance notice on domestic flights, and check in one hour before the check-in time for the general public. And 48 hours' advance notice and check-in one hour before the check-in time for the general public is required to use a ventilator, respirator, continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) machine or portable oxygen container (POC). An air carrier does not have to allow an incubator or a person who must travel on a stretcher on the plane, but if it chooses to do so, it can require 48 hours' advance notice and check in one hour before the check-in time for the general public. Also, an air carrier does not have to provide a hook-up for a respirator, ventilator, CPAP machine or POC to the aircraft electrical power supply, but if it chooses to do so, it can require 48 hours' advance notice and check in one hours before the check-in time for the general public. Air carriers can also require 48 hours' advance notice and check in one hour before the check- in time for the general public in order to receive any of the following: . transportation for an electric wheelchair on an aircraft with fewer than 60 seats; . provision of hazardous materials packaging for batteries or other assistive devices that are required to have such packaging; . accommodation for a group of ten or more individuals with a disability who make reservations and travel as a group; . provision of an on-board wheelchair on an aircraft with more than 60 seats that does not have an accessible lavatory; . transportation of an emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the cabin; . transportation of a service animal on a flight segment scheduled to take 8 hours or more; and . accommodation of a passenger who has both severe vision and hearing impairments. It is up to the air carrier to provide the service or accommodation if the advance notice is given, and to make sure that reservations and other administrative services ensure that, when the advance notice is given, the notice is communicated, clearly and on time, to the people who will be responsible for providing the service or accommodation.Even if the passenger does not meet advance notice or check-in requirements, the air carrier must still provide the service or accommodation if it can do so by making reasonable efforts, without delaying the flight. Can the airline require me to travel with an assistant just because I have a disability? Air carriers may not generally require that a passenger with a disability travel with another person as a condition of being able to have the air transportation. However, passengers who fall into certain categories may be required to travel with a safety assistant if the air carrier determines that it is essential for safety. The categories are: . a passenger traveling in a stretcher or incubator; . a passenger who, because of mental disabilities, is unable to comprehend or respond appropriately to safety instructions from carrier personnel; . a passenger with a mobility impairment so severe that the person is unable to physically assist in his or her own evacuation of the aircraft; and . a passenger who has both severe hearing and severe vision impairments, if the passenger cannot establish some means of communication with personnel that is adequate to communicate safety instructions and enable the passenger to assist in his or her own evacuation of the aircraft. If the passenger with a disability believes that s/he can travel independently, but the air carrier disagrees, then the air carrier must not charge for the safety assistant's transportation. The air carrier is not required to find or provide the safety assistant. If the passenger voluntarily chooses to travel with a personal care attendant or safety assistant that the air carrier does not require, the air carrier may charge for the transportation of that person. Concern that a passenger with a disability might need help with personal care, like using the lavatory or eating, is not the basis for requiring the person to travel with a safety attendant. Air carriers have to make sure that personnel are trained about this. The air carrier is allowed to tell passengers that air carrier personnel are not required to provide those kinds of services. Can the airline charge a surcharge to me for providing accommodations? Air carriers are not allowed to impose charges for providing facilities, equipment, or services that the ACAA requires the air carriers to provide to passengers with a disability. However, if a passenger must use more than one seat because of the passenger's size or condition (like the use of a stretcher), then the carrier may charge for the extra seat(s). This is not considered a special charge. If the air carrier has a website for reservations and ticket purchase that is not accessible to people with certain disabilities, then it must allow people with disabilities to make reservations and purchase tickets in another way (such as by phone) without imposing additional charges. And if there is a price discount that is available only for online purchases, it must provide the same discount to people with disabilities who cannot access the inaccessible website.How can I find out in advance if the plane I will be on is accessible? Air carriers must provide the following kinds of information about the accessibility of the aircraft expected to make a particular flight: . the specific locations of seats with movable armrests (by row and seat number); . the specific location of seats that the air carrier does not make available to passengers with a disability (such as exit row seats); . any aircraft-related limitations on the ability to accommodate passengers with a disability, including limitations on the availability of level-entry boarding to the aircraft at any airport involved with the flight; . any limitations on the availability of storage facilities in the cabin or bay; . whether the aircraft has an accessible lavatory; and . the kinds of service to passengers with disabilities that are, or are not, available on the flight. Information and services must be available to people who use text telephone, whether through the carrier's TTY, voice relay, or other technology. Air carriers must provide access to TTY users during the same hours that telephone service is available to the general public. There can be no extra charges for TTY users. Carriers must list their TTY number any place they list their phone number. If the carrier does not have a TTY, then it must state how TTY users can reach reservation and ticketing services, such as through a voice relay service. Does the airport itself have to be accessible? Airports must be accessible to, and usable by, individuals with disabilities. Air carriers are responsible for accessibility for all airport facilities that are owned, leased, or controlled by the air carrier. Airport facilities have the same accessibility standards as do places of public accommodation under Title III of the ADA, including the implementing regulations promulgated by the U.S. Department of Justice. Air carriers must ensure that transportation systems within terminals, and between the terminal and other destinations, including moving sidewalks, shuttle vehicles, and people movers, comply with the accessibility requirements of the U.S. Department of Transportation's ADA rules. Animal relief areas must be available for service animals that accompany passengers departing, connecting, or arriving at an airport. Captioning must be enabled at all times on all televisions and other audiovisual displays that are capable of displaying captions and are located in any part of the terminal where passengers can go. New or replacement televisions or audiovisual displays must have high-contrast captioning capability. Air carriers are required to provide assistance when requested by a passenger with a disabilityto transport the passenger between gates to a connecting flight, as well as from the terminal entrance, or vehicle drop-off point, through the airport to the gate for a departing flight, and from the gate to the terminal exit or a vehicle pick-up point. This includes providing assistance in accessing key functional areas of the terminal, like ticket counters and baggage claim. It also includes a brief stop, at the passenger's request, at the entrance to a rest room on the route. Carriers at U.S. airports must, if requested, in cooperation with the airport operator, escort a passenger with a service animal to an animal relief area at the airport. When providing assistance to move through the terminal, carriers must assist passengers who are unable to carry luggage, with transporting both checked and carry-on luggage. The carrier may ask the passenger for credible verbal assurance that s/he cannot carry the luggage in question. If credible verbal assurance is not provided, the carrier may require documentation. Do individuals with disabilities have to go through the same security screenings as other passengers? All passengers, including passengers with disabilities, are subject to TSA security screening in U.S. airports. Likewise, at foreign airports, passengers, including passengers with disabilities, are subject to the security screening measures required by law in the country where the airport is located. If the air carrier imposes security measures that go beyond those mandated by TSA or a foreign security screening, then it must use the same criteria for passengers with disabilities as for other passengers. Passengers who use a mobility or other assistive device should not be subject to special screening just because of the device unless the device activates a security system or security personnel make a judgment that the device might conceal a weapon or other prohibited item. Air carriers may not require searches of individuals with disabilities to a greater extent, or for different reasons, than for other passengers. If a passenger with a disability requests a private screening, then it must be provided in time for the passenger to catch the plane. But if, with the use of technology, an appropriate screening of a passenger can be performed without necessitating a physical search of the person, then a private screening is not required. What services do the air carriers have to provide to passengers with disabilities on the plane? Air carrier personnel must provide the following assistance, when requested, for a person with a disability: . Assistance in moving to and from seats, as part of enplaning and deplaning; . Assistance in preparation for eating, such as opening packages and identifying food; . Assistance with the use of the on-board wheelchair, when there is one on the plane, to enable the person to move to and from a lavatory; . Assistance to a semi-ambulatory person in moving to and from the lavatory, not involving lifting or carrying the person; . Assistance in stowing and retrieving carry-on items, including mobility aids and other assistive devices stowed in the cabin; . Effective communication with passengers who have vision impairments and/or who are deaf or hard-of-hearing, so that these passengers have timely access to information the carrier provides to other passengers (info such as weather, on-board services, flight delays, and connecting gates). Air carrier personnel are not required to provide extensive special assistance, including assistance in actual eating, assistance within the restroom; assistance at the passenger's seat with elimination functions; and provision of medical services. I use a portable oxygen concentrator (POC) and when I tried to take it on a plane a few years ago, the airline would not allow it. Is it lawful for them to do that? Carriers, except for on-demand air taxi operators, who conduct passenger services must allow, on all aircraft with a capacity of more than 19 seats, any passenger with a disability to use a ventilator, respirator, continuous positive airway pressure machine (CPAP), or an FAA- approved portable oxygen concentrator (POC), unless either the device does not meet FAA requirements for medical portable electronic devices and does not display a manufacturer's label that indicates the device meets those FAA requirements or the device cannot be stowed and used in the passenger cabin consistent with TSA, FAA, and PHMSA regulations. What does an airline not have to provide under the ACAA? The airline is not required to actually provide the medical oxygen for use on the plane, the ability to carry an incubator, hook-up for a respirator to the plane's electrical system, or accommodations for a passenger who has to travel on a stretcher. If the airline chooses to provide any of these services, it may charge a reasonable fee and require 48-hour advance notice and 1-hour advance check-in. Are service animals covered by the ACAA? The ACAA definition of service animals includes guide dogs, signal dogs, psychiatric service animals, and emotional support animals. Airlines are required to allow service animals traveling with persons with disabilities to sit with them in the cabin of the aircraft. Persons traveling with pets, as opposed to service animals or emotional support animals, do not have any rights under the ACAA. To determine whether a qualified individual with a disability is entitled to travel with a service animal, airline personnel may ask questions and request documentation in certain circumstances. The questions that may be asked, and the level of documentation that may be required, will vary depending on the individual's disability and the type of service animal. The reason for the variation in requirements is because: 1) many people with disabilities who travel do not have obvious disabilities and the need for a service animal is not apparent; and 2) even for some individuals with obvious disabilities, the reason they need the service animal may not be apparent.If an individual has an obvious disability and: 1) the service animal is wearing a harness, tags, vests, or backpack; or 2) the person provides identification cards or other written documentation; or 3) credible verbal assurances that the animal is a service animal, then the airline should permit the animal to accompany the individual with a disability on the plane. If airline personnel are not certain of the animal's status, even after being told that an animal is a service animal, additional questions may be asked, including: "What tasks or functions does your animal perform for you?," "What has the animal been trained to do for you?," and "Would you describe how the animal performs this task or function for you?'' For emotional support or psychiatric service animals, airlines may request very specific diagnostic documentation 48 hours in advance of a flight. The documentation must: 1) be current (not be more than one year old); 2) be on letterhead from a licensed mental health professional; 3) state that the person has a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV); and 4) state that the animal is needed as an accommodation for air travel or for activity at the individual's destination. The documentation should also state that the health professional is treating the individual and include the date and type of the mental health professional's license and the state or other jurisdiction in which it was issued. It does not need to state the individual's diagnosis. Unusual animals such as miniature horses, pigs, and monkeys may be allowed to travel as service animals. To determine whether the animal will be allowed in the cabin the airline may take into account the animal's size, weight, and whether the animal would pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others, or cause a significant disruption in cabin service. If the animal would pose or cause any of these things, the animal may have to travel in the cargo hold. In addition, if there are restrictions on any of these animals at the final destination point of travel, the animal may not be allowed to fly the friendly skies at all. Other unusual animals such as snakes, other reptiles, ferrets, rodents, and spiders will be denied boarding the plane at all, as they may pose other safety and public health concerns. Foreign carriers are required to transport only dogs as service animals. Any service animal may be denied boarding privileges if the animal barks, growls, jumps on people or misbehaves in ways that indicate the animal has not been trained to behave properly in public settings, poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others, or poses a significant risk of disruption in airline service. Service animals cannot be denied passage because other passengers are annoyed by, or afraid of, animals. Airlines will make the accommodations needed to assure that other passengers are comfortable.A person traveling with a service animal may ask to pre-board and request a bulkhead seat or another seat that better suits their needs. People with disabilities can sit in any seat with their service animal unless they block an aisle or an area designated for emergency evacuation. If they cannot be accommodated in a requested seat, then they must be given the opportunity to move to another seat within the same class of service. Airlines are not required to make modifications that would constitute an undue burden or would fundamentally alter their programs. In order to accommodate a service animal, an airline does not have to ask another passenger to give up all or most of the space in front of their seats. Airline personnel may try to find someone willing to share their foot space. Airlines can voluntarily reseat a person traveling with a service animal to a business or first-class seat to accommodate a service animal, but are not required to do so. In-flight services and facilities do not have to be provided to service animals. Individuals traveling with the animals must provide for the animal's food, care, and supervision. However, in the terminal, airlines must provide animal relief areas and provide escort service to individuals traveling with service animals to these areas, upon request. What if I have a complaint under the ACAA? There are two options. All airlines are required to have a Complaint Resolution Official (CRO) immediately available to resolve disagreements between passengers with disabilities and the airline. A CRO must be designated by any carrier providing scheduled service, as well as a carrier providing nonscheduled service using aircraft with 19 or more passenger seats. A CRO must be available at each airport the carrier serves at all times when the carrier operates at the airport. The CRO may be available in person or by telephone. If a telephone link to the CRO is used, then TTY or similarly effective technology must be available for person with hearing impairments. CRO services must be available in the language(s) in which the carrier makes services available to the general public. Carriers must make passengers aware of the CRO's availability and contact info any time a person complains or raises a concern with carrier personnel or contractors about discrimination, accommodations, or services for passengers with a disability, that is not immediately resolved by carrier personnel. This includes issues at the airport, as well as when contacting reservation agents and accessing websites. The CRO must be completely familiar with the requirements of the ACAA and its implementing regulations, as well as the carrier's procedures with respect to passengers with disabilities. The CRO should be the carrier's expert in compliance with the ACAA. The carrier must make sure that each CRO has the authority to resolve complaints on the behalf of the carrier. The CRO must have the power to overrule the decision of other personnel, except that the CRO does not have to be given authority to countermand a decision of the pilot-in-command of an aircraft when the decision is based on safety considerations. If an individual believes that an air carrier has violated any provision of the ACAA and its implementing regulations, the individual may either seek assistance or file an informal complaint with the DOT no later than 6 months after the date of the incident by either: . Going to the Department's Aviation Consumer Protection Division at airco sumer.ost.dot.gov and selecting "Air Travel Problems and Complaints," or . Writing to DOT, Aviation Consumer Protection Division (C-75), 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE, Washington DC 20590. From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Wed May 19 23:24:48 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 16:24:48 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air References: <4bf44d05.0652640a.02d6.fffffb77@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6FA91116BA9A4F969CA09BFCD7F34322@stanford.edu> Just two quick comments. 1. If you wanted to avoid the metal detector and dog equipment situation altogether, you could find/make a slip collar leash with no metal to be used at the security point only and remove your dog's leash and harness. 2. I slightly question touching every bag on the carousel. Yes, it's our way of identifying things, but some people don't understand, and touching everyone's bag as it passed by could raise suspicions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Hi, > Another technique for finding bags is to have some tactile identification > on > the bag. You can actually kneel in front of the carousel, and feel every > bag > that goes by until you discover yours. The down side to that is that it's > a > little uncomfortable, and if your arms aren't long enough, you may not be > able to feel all of the bags that are farther back. But, it works well for > the most part. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Dear all, > > Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people > register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and > no > doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and > future. > > A few more thoughts: > > 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it > has > been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the > dog > will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk > through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all > that's > required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra > frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take > the > initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes to > your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. > > 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person > sitting > next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet > know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if > not > headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable > to > ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if > you > are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or > luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your > experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes > sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never > knows > when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to > people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. > Some > of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the > support > rails in one of the crowded DC subways. > > 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find > my > luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't > beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster > of > bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some other > colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if you > want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. > > 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in technology > will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. We > all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but > do > take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground people > are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash > registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric > carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. > > Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain > airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of > their > concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the > easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change > planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough > questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from one > gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and no > doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air > is > not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or > negotiating a restaurant. > > Best, > > Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments > up > to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is > here for. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Joe, > This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can > incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be > intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a > trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that > I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at > the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my > hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking > me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how > she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could > travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was > able to travel to my gate. > > My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the > right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick > you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm > and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline > personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not > give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week > has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little > frazzled. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the > best way to >> incorporate it into the resources page. >> >> Thanks much, >> Meghan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> While airports can often seem like some of the most > confusing places to >>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple > of points. >>> >>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many > airports, think >>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of > the gates on one >>> >>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift > shops, bathrooms, >>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on > one side and >>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, > such as the A >>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>> >>> >>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from > each other. So >>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many > gates you've >>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right > concourse is to >>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is > nearest to you. >>> >>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>> >>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you > may save the >>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket > flagged as >>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often > very feasible to >>> >>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their > carry-on. It can >>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow > bags a bit >>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't > be singled >>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to > carry-on luggage >>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the > airport, you can go >>> straight through security to your gate without your seat > being moved or >>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>> >>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If > you can use >>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with > your airline and >>> >>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa > 2500" for American >>> >>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi > Internet access. >>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually > the airport >>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>> >>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can > either wander >>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses > clanging, >>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's > website will often >>> >>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>> >>> Who's next? >>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our > members. Some of >>>> the >>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact > same thing in >>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>> actions, >>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to > address a myriad >>>> of >>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, > devote a week >>>> for >>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is > managing the NABS >>>> website these days could create individual pages with a > compilation of >>>> our >>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. > Here's my >>>> first >>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>> >>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as > comfortable as possible >>>> >>>> to >>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is > possible to >>>> make >>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves > difficult to >>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that > the telephone >>>> rates >>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result > in your not >>>> being >>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while > organizations like >>>> the >>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will > need to find >>>> the >>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. > If at all >>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid > having to >>>> stand >>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in > luggage, you'll >>>> need >>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but > checking into >>>> your >>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to > choose your seat >>>> if >>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless > you're flying >>>> Southwest. >>>> >>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most > airline counters >>>> will >>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>> considerations that different airports are set up in > different ways, but >>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an > entrance that is most >>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now > all you have to >>>> do >>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound > difficult? >>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people > walking by to >>>> ask >>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling > suitcases and >>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your > questions, and >>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who > could be on your >>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>> >>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that > staying in line is >>>> made >>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane > to gently tap >>>> the >>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a > guide dog, ask >>>> Cujo >>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person > ahead of you >>>> has >>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this > before, you'll >>>> get >>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free > to engage >>>> said >>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may > be on your >>>> flight. >>>> >>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. > While you're >>>> >>>> at >>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. > If you're >>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since > you don't want >>>> to >>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a > diligent traveler >>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure > of finding >>>> your >>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around > exploring than it is >>>> to >>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>> walking >>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to > your favorite >>>> characters. >>>> >>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your > characters need to >>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, > it's the same >>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your > independence unless you >>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I > assure you >>>> real >>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>> >>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do > not try to get >>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the > airport. Just ask >>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People > vary in their >>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break > up your journey >>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be > less likely to >>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>> >>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your > task is to >>>> find >>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the > representative >>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the > direction they gave >>>> and >>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can > confirm these >>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>> sounds >>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here > the beep of >>>> the >>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>> through >>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>> admonishing >>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>> >>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. > This is not >>>> even >>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point > for blind and >>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you > don't want to >>>> be >>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while > generally holding up >>>> the >>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be > taken out and >>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find > out what is >>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not > work, pick up a >>>> phone. >>>> >>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going > to encounter >>>> the >>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and > identification. >>>> Ask >>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal > detectors. Remember >>>> when >>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make > sure you fully >>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, > keep trying >>>> until >>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>> finger >>>> in the right direction. >>>> >>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>> through >>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants > and ultimately >>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do > while flying and >>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any > details you think >>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even > frequent travelers >>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes > tmidi.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen > %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless > 86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5129 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From ccook01 at knology.net Thu May 20 00:19:15 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:19:15 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <6FA91116BA9A4F969CA09BFCD7F34322@stanford.edu> References: <4bf44d05.0652640a.02d6.fffffb77@mx.google.com> <6FA91116BA9A4F969CA09BFCD7F34322@stanford.edu> Message-ID: Actually I was thinking the same thing. And raised suspicions in air ports are not a good thing. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:25 PM To: davidb521 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Just two quick comments. 1. If you wanted to avoid the metal detector and dog equipment situation altogether, you could find/make a slip collar leash with no metal to be used at the security point only and remove your dog's leash and harness. 2. I slightly question touching every bag on the carousel. Yes, it's our way of identifying things, but some people don't understand, and touching everyone's bag as it passed by could raise suspicions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Hi, > Another technique for finding bags is to have some tactile identification > on > the bag. You can actually kneel in front of the carousel, and feel every > bag > that goes by until you discover yours. The down side to that is that it's > a > little uncomfortable, and if your arms aren't long enough, you may not be > able to feel all of the bags that are farther back. But, it works well for > the most part. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Dear all, > > Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people > register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and > no > doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and > future. > > A few more thoughts: > > 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it > has > been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the > dog > will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk > through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all > that's > required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra > frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take > the > initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes to > your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. > > 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person > sitting > next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet > know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if > not > headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable > to > ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if > you > are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or > luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your > experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes > sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never > knows > when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to > people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. > Some > of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the > support > rails in one of the crowded DC subways. > > 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find > my > luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't > beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster > of > bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some other > colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if you > want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. > > 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in technology > will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. We > all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but > do > take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground people > are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash > registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric > carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. > > Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain > airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of > their > concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the > easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change > planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough > questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from one > gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and no > doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air > is > not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or > negotiating a restaurant. > > Best, > > Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments > up > to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is > here for. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Joe, > This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can > incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be > intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a > trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that > I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at > the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my > hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking > me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how > she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could > travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was > able to travel to my gate. > > My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the > right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick > you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm > and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline > personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not > give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week > has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little > frazzled. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the > best way to >> incorporate it into the resources page. >> >> Thanks much, >> Meghan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> While airports can often seem like some of the most > confusing places to >>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple > of points. >>> >>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many > airports, think >>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of > the gates on one >>> >>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift > shops, bathrooms, >>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on > one side and >>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, > such as the A >>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>> >>> >>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from > each other. So >>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many > gates you've >>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right > concourse is to >>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is > nearest to you. >>> >>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>> >>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you > may save the >>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket > flagged as >>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often > very feasible to >>> >>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their > carry-on. It can >>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow > bags a bit >>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't > be singled >>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to > carry-on luggage >>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the > airport, you can go >>> straight through security to your gate without your seat > being moved or >>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>> >>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If > you can use >>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with > your airline and >>> >>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa > 2500" for American >>> >>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi > Internet access. >>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually > the airport >>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>> >>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can > either wander >>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses > clanging, >>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's > website will often >>> >>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>> >>> Who's next? >>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our > members. Some of >>>> the >>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact > same thing in >>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>> actions, >>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to > address a myriad >>>> of >>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, > devote a week >>>> for >>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is > managing the NABS >>>> website these days could create individual pages with a > compilation of >>>> our >>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. > Here's my >>>> first >>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>> >>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as > comfortable as possible >>>> >>>> to >>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is > possible to >>>> make >>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves > difficult to >>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that > the telephone >>>> rates >>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result > in your not >>>> being >>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while > organizations like >>>> the >>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will > need to find >>>> the >>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. > If at all >>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid > having to >>>> stand >>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in > luggage, you'll >>>> need >>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but > checking into >>>> your >>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to > choose your seat >>>> if >>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless > you're flying >>>> Southwest. >>>> >>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most > airline counters >>>> will >>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>> considerations that different airports are set up in > different ways, but >>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an > entrance that is most >>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now > all you have to >>>> do >>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound > difficult? >>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people > walking by to >>>> ask >>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling > suitcases and >>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your > questions, and >>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who > could be on your >>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>> >>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that > staying in line is >>>> made >>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane > to gently tap >>>> the >>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a > guide dog, ask >>>> Cujo >>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person > ahead of you >>>> has >>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this > before, you'll >>>> get >>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free > to engage >>>> said >>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may > be on your >>>> flight. >>>> >>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. > While you're >>>> >>>> at >>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. > If you're >>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since > you don't want >>>> to >>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a > diligent traveler >>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure > of finding >>>> your >>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around > exploring than it is >>>> to >>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>> walking >>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to > your favorite >>>> characters. >>>> >>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your > characters need to >>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, > it's the same >>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your > independence unless you >>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I > assure you >>>> real >>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>> >>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do > not try to get >>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the > airport. Just ask >>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People > vary in their >>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break > up your journey >>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be > less likely to >>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>> >>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your > task is to >>>> find >>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the > representative >>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the > direction they gave >>>> and >>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can > confirm these >>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>> sounds >>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here > the beep of >>>> the >>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>> through >>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>> admonishing >>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>> >>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. > This is not >>>> even >>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point > for blind and >>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you > don't want to >>>> be >>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while > generally holding up >>>> the >>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be > taken out and >>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find > out what is >>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not > work, pick up a >>>> phone. >>>> >>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going > to encounter >>>> the >>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and > identification. >>>> Ask >>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal > detectors. Remember >>>> when >>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make > sure you fully >>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, > keep trying >>>> until >>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>> finger >>>> in the right direction. >>>> >>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>> through >>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants > and ultimately >>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do > while flying and >>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any > details you think >>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even > frequent travelers >>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes > tmidi.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen > %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless > 86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5129 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu May 20 01:19:15 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:19:15 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <012f01caf7ba$76ba9ec0$642fdc40$@com> Hi Justin, If you look online at US News and World Report, you will find rankings of Law Schools, both overall and by area of law. These rankings are by no means definitive, but they are a good start. There are not necessarily specialized law programs. All law school attendees receive the same J.d. degree. However, certain schools do have recognized expertise in particular areas. Regarding the LSAT, get started on the accommodations process as early as possible. I initially intended to take the LSAT in December of 09, but am finally scheduled for the October 2010 test. I ran into an issue where the accommodations I requested were not initially approved. I am still working with the LSAC to reach an understanding on that front. The bottom line is that it can take an inordinately long time to go through the process. If you decide to take the LSAT, feel free to be in touch with me. I have some study materials in electronic format that I could share with you. I would also be happy to answer any questions about the process. Good luck! Take care, Sean From kfjelsted at gmail.com Thu May 20 01:52:27 2010 From: kfjelsted at gmail.com (Kevin Fjelsted) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:52:27 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> Message-ID: I googled the title "Walking Alone and Marching Together!" and found some references including one on the NFB site that wants me to log in with a username and password. THe book appears to be purchasable from Amazon. Is this book available in an accessible format preferabley Braille? I would love to read it. -Kevin On 5/18/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: > You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are realizing > how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an exit > row. One thing I > forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we were > about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that would > have not > only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been > prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would have > excluded us from > quite a number of seats on some planes. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: > >>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>can't have given a better suggestion! > >>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>sighted persons I know. > >>Respectfully, >>Jedi > > >>Original message: >>> Hello Peter, > >>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>> Hello Briley and everyone, > >>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>> equal >>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind >>>> of >>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>>> much >>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>> bulkhead >>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>> post-board, >>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>> guard >>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>> than >>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. > >>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>>> row; >>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>> the >>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>> activities. >>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>> or >>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>>> down >>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>> and >>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>>> All >>>> the best. > >>>> Peter Donahue > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>> blindteen > > >>>> Valory, > >>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>> was >>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>> What >>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>> Media >>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>> acceptable. > >>>> Briley > > >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. > >>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>> judgement >>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>> we >>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>> unfair >>>>> to point fingers. > >>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>> needs >>>>> sighted help in everything. > >>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>> and >>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > >>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > >>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > >>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > >>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, > >>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>>>> quickly. > >>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>> and >>>>>> sometimes I don't. > >>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > >>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>>> cope. > >>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>> due >>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > >>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>> turn >>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>>> went >>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>> check of the plane. > >>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>> news >>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>> said >>>>>>> sorry." > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>-- >>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com > -- Kevin Fjelsted B Harris, Inc. http://www.bharrisinc.com kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 Direct: 612.424.7332 From davidb521 at gmail.com Thu May 20 02:00:39 2010 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 21:00:39 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4bf497d4.0752640a.6ded.1225@mx.google.com> It's just one of many options. And wouldn't beeping luggage indicators be sort of suspicious as well? What if they thought it was somesort of explosive device in there paranoia? All I do is just feel part of the bag AS it's going by until I find mine. Of course, if there are any other ideas you may have that do not involve depending on a sighted person, or using a beeping locator, I would welcome them. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Corey Cook Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:19 PM To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Actually I was thinking the same thing. And raised suspicions in air ports are not a good thing. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole B. Torcolini Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:25 PM To: davidb521 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Just two quick comments. 1. If you wanted to avoid the metal detector and dog equipment situation altogether, you could find/make a slip collar leash with no metal to be used at the security point only and remove your dog's leash and harness. 2. I slightly question touching every bag on the carousel. Yes, it's our way of identifying things, but some people don't understand, and touching everyone's bag as it passed by could raise suspicions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Hi, > Another technique for finding bags is to have some tactile identification > on > the bag. You can actually kneel in front of the carousel, and feel every > bag > that goes by until you discover yours. The down side to that is that it's > a > little uncomfortable, and if your arms aren't long enough, you may not be > able to feel all of the bags that are farther back. But, it works well for > the most part. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Joe Orozco > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:00 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Dear all, > > Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people > register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and > no > doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and > future. > > A few more thoughts: > > 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it > has > been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the > dog > will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk > through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all > that's > required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra > frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take > the > initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes to > your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. > > 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person > sitting > next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet > know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if > not > headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable > to > ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if > you > are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or > luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your > experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes > sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never > knows > when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to > people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. > Some > of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the > support > rails in one of the crowded DC subways. > > 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find > my > luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't > beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster > of > bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some other > colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if you > want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. > > 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in technology > will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. We > all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but > do > take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground people > are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash > registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric > carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. > > Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain > airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of > their > concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the > easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change > planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough > questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from one > gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and no > doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air > is > not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or > negotiating a restaurant. > > Best, > > Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments > up > to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is > here for. > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Joe, > This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can > incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be > intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a > trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that > I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at > the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my > hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking > me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how > she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could > travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was > able to travel to my gate. > > My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the > right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick > you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm > and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline > personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not > give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week > has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little > frazzled. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the > best way to >> incorporate it into the resources page. >> >> Thanks much, >> Meghan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> While airports can often seem like some of the most > confusing places to >>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple > of points. >>> >>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many > airports, think >>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of > the gates on one >>> >>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift > shops, bathrooms, >>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on > one side and >>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, > such as the A >>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>> >>> >>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from > each other. So >>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many > gates you've >>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right > concourse is to >>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is > nearest to you. >>> >>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>> >>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you > may save the >>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket > flagged as >>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often > very feasible to >>> >>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their > carry-on. It can >>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow > bags a bit >>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't > be singled >>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to > carry-on luggage >>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the > airport, you can go >>> straight through security to your gate without your seat > being moved or >>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>> >>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If > you can use >>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with > your airline and >>> >>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa > 2500" for American >>> >>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi > Internet access. >>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually > the airport >>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>> >>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can > either wander >>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses > clanging, >>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's > website will often >>> >>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>> >>> Who's next? >>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our > members. Some of >>>> the >>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact > same thing in >>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>> actions, >>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to > address a myriad >>>> of >>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, > devote a week >>>> for >>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is > managing the NABS >>>> website these days could create individual pages with a > compilation of >>>> our >>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. > Here's my >>>> first >>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>> >>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as > comfortable as possible >>>> >>>> to >>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is > possible to >>>> make >>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves > difficult to >>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that > the telephone >>>> rates >>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result > in your not >>>> being >>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while > organizations like >>>> the >>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will > need to find >>>> the >>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. > If at all >>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid > having to >>>> stand >>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in > luggage, you'll >>>> need >>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but > checking into >>>> your >>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to > choose your seat >>>> if >>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless > you're flying >>>> Southwest. >>>> >>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most > airline counters >>>> will >>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>> considerations that different airports are set up in > different ways, but >>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an > entrance that is most >>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now > all you have to >>>> do >>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound > difficult? >>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people > walking by to >>>> ask >>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling > suitcases and >>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your > questions, and >>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who > could be on your >>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>> >>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that > staying in line is >>>> made >>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane > to gently tap >>>> the >>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a > guide dog, ask >>>> Cujo >>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person > ahead of you >>>> has >>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this > before, you'll >>>> get >>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free > to engage >>>> said >>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may > be on your >>>> flight. >>>> >>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. > While you're >>>> >>>> at >>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. > If you're >>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since > you don't want >>>> to >>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a > diligent traveler >>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure > of finding >>>> your >>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around > exploring than it is >>>> to >>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>> walking >>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to > your favorite >>>> characters. >>>> >>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your > characters need to >>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, > it's the same >>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your > independence unless you >>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I > assure you >>>> real >>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>> >>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do > not try to get >>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the > airport. Just ask >>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People > vary in their >>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break > up your journey >>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be > less likely to >>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>> >>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your > task is to >>>> find >>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the > representative >>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the > direction they gave >>>> and >>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can > confirm these >>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>> sounds >>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here > the beep of >>>> the >>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>> through >>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>> admonishing >>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>> >>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. > This is not >>>> even >>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point > for blind and >>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you > don't want to >>>> be >>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while > generally holding up >>>> the >>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be > taken out and >>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find > out what is >>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not > work, pick up a >>>> phone. >>>> >>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going > to encounter >>>> the >>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and > identification. >>>> Ask >>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal > detectors. Remember >>>> when >>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make > sure you fully >>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, > keep trying >>>> until >>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>> finger >>>> in the right direction. >>>> >>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>> through >>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants > and ultimately >>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do > while flying and >>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any > details you think >>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even > frequent travelers >>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your > account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes > tmidi.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen > %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless > 86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of > virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 5129 (20100519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab le.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From ntorcolini at wavecable.com Thu May 20 02:46:58 2010 From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 19:46:58 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air References: <4bf497d4.0752640a.6ded.1225@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <52ADBD8DA5B4478AB65D6F151FC49EBB@stanford.edu> Lol, good point. I guess the point that anything that people are not used to they might turn into suspicion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > It's just one of many options. And wouldn't beeping luggage indicators be > sort of suspicious as well? What if they thought it was somesort of > explosive device in there paranoia? All I do is just feel part of the bag > AS > it's going by until I find mine. Of course, if there are any other ideas > you > may have that do not involve depending on a sighted person, or using a > beeping locator, I would welcome them. > David > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Corey Cook > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:19 PM > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Actually I was thinking the same thing. And raised suspicions in air ports > are not a good thing. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On > Behalf > Of Nicole B. Torcolini > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:25 PM > To: davidb521 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing > list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > Just two quick comments. > > 1. If you wanted to avoid the metal detector and dog equipment situation > altogether, you could find/make a slip collar leash with no metal to be > used > > at the security point only and remove your dog's leash and harness. > > 2. I slightly question touching every bag on the carousel. Yes, it's our > way of identifying things, but some people don't understand, and touching > everyone's bag as it passed by could raise suspicions. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David" > To: ; "'National Association of Blind Students mailing > list'" > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:41 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >> Hi, >> Another technique for finding bags is to have some tactile identification >> on >> the bag. You can actually kneel in front of the carousel, and feel every >> bag >> that goes by until you discover yours. The down side to that is that it's >> a >> little uncomfortable, and if your arms aren't long enough, you may not be >> able to feel all of the bags that are farther back. But, it works well >> for >> the most part. >> David >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Joe Orozco >> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:00 PM >> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> Dear all, >> >> Thanks for contributing to this thread. Given the rate at which people >> register on the NABS website, I know someone is reading the content, and >> no >> doubt your thoughts will be of tremendous value to students present and >> future. >> >> A few more thoughts: >> >> 1. I have a guide dog, and when coming up on the security checkpoint it >> has >> been my experience that personnel automatically try to wand me since the >> dog >> will set off the metal detector. So, I have Gator lie down while I walk >> through the detector then call him to me so that I am clear, and all >> that's >> required is for the representatives to pat down my guide. The extra >> frisking is sometimes random. You can't avoid this, but if you can take >> the >> initiative, if it is not random you can avoid adding a few more minutes >> to >> your journey by having them pat down the dog independent of you. >> >> 2. If you are connecting to a second or third flight, ask the person >> sitting >> next to you to help you read the connecting gate number if you do not yet >> know it. Your fellow passenger may be walking in the same direction, if >> not >> headed to the same gate themselves, in which case it is not unreasonable >> to >> ask if you can follow them. Actually, this simple maneuver may work if >> you >> are at the end of your trip and need to find ground transportation or >> luggage claim. Remember that bit of advice about breaking up your >> experience into small, digestible chunks. All this aside, it just makes >> sense to feel comfortable talking to the people around you. One never >> knows >> when a good educational opportunity will present itself, and talking to >> people just helps you smooth out other aspects of social development. >> Some >> of my more interesting friends I've met while clinging to one of the >> support >> rails in one of the crowded DC subways. >> >> 3. It's been a while since I've checked bags, but when I do I try to find >> my >> luggage locators. Some may find these look a little dorky, but you can't >> beat pressing a button and having your bags chirp at you from the cluster >> of >> bags around it. Others may suggest tying a bright pink Bowe or some >> other >> colorful mark to clearly identify your bag. You could do this, but if >> you >> want a higher degree of independence, luggage locators are a good bet. >> >> 4. Listen to your surroundings. Seriously, no great advance in >> technology >> will ever replicate the surround sound that happens between your ears. >> We >> all know the misconceptions of Super Man hearing abilities are false, but >> do >> take advantage of all the little clues from the sound of the ground >> people >> are walking on to the general direction of voices to the racket of cash >> registers, metal detectors, PA speakers, escalators, elevators, electric >> carts and other sounds that traditionally flow through an airport. >> >> Some people have gotten good at remembering the general layout of certain >> airports and could probably make a list of airports and the shapes of >> their >> concourses. I believe the Atlanta airport is supposed to be one of the >> easiest layouts, but to this day I forget what goes where when I change >> planes in Atlanta. Yet it's only a matter of time before I ask enough >> questions and harass enough people before I figure out how to get from >> one >> gate to the next. It truly is something of an adventure each time, and >> no >> doubt you will soon become an expert at recognizing that traveling by air >> is >> not too different from finding a new classroom, navigating a mall or >> negotiating a restaurant. >> >> Best, >> >> Still, ask questions if you have them. No one would suggest the comments >> up >> to this point have exhausted every possibility. That's what the list is >> here for. >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Domonique Lawless >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:57 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> Joe, >> This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can >> incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be >> intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a >> trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that >> I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at >> the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my >> hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking >> me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how >> she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could >> travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was >> able to travel to my gate. >> >> My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the >> right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick >> you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm >> and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline >> personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not >> give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week >> has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little >> frazzled. >> >> Best Wishes, >> Domonique >> >> On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >>> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the >> best way to >>> incorporate it into the resources page. >>> >>> Thanks much, >>> Meghan >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing >>> list" >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> While airports can often seem like some of the most >> confusing places to >>>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple >> of points. >>>> >>>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many >> airports, think >>>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of >> the gates on one >>>> >>>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift >> shops, bathrooms, >>>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on >> one side and >>>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, >> such as the A >>>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>>> >>>> >>>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from >> each other. So >>>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many >> gates you've >>>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right >> concourse is to >>>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is >> nearest to you. >>>> >>>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>>> >>>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you >> may save the >>>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket >> flagged as >>>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often >> very feasible to >>>> >>>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their >> carry-on. It can >>>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow >> bags a bit >>>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't >> be singled >>>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to >> carry-on luggage >>>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the >> airport, you can go >>>> straight through security to your gate without your seat >> being moved or >>>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>>> >>>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If >> you can use >>>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with >> your airline and >>>> >>>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa >> 2500" for American >>>> >>>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi >> Internet access. >>>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually >> the airport >>>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>>> >>>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can >> either wander >>>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses >> clanging, >>>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's >> website will often >>>> >>>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>>> >>>> Who's next? >>>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>>> >>>> >>>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our >> members. Some of >>>>> the >>>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact >> same thing in >>>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>>> actions, >>>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to >> address a myriad >>>>> of >>>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, >> devote a week >>>>> for >>>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is >> managing the NABS >>>>> website these days could create individual pages with a >> compilation of >>>>> our >>>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. >> Here's my >>>>> first >>>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>>> >>>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>>> >>>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as >> comfortable as possible >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is >> possible to >>>>> make >>>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves >> difficult to >>>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that >> the telephone >>>>> rates >>>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result >> in your not >>>>> being >>>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while >> organizations like >>>>> the >>>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will >> need to find >>>>> the >>>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. >> If at all >>>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid >> having to >>>>> stand >>>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in >> luggage, you'll >>>>> need >>>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but >> checking into >>>>> your >>>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to >> choose your seat >>>>> if >>>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless >> you're flying >>>>> Southwest. >>>>> >>>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most >> airline counters >>>>> will >>>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>>> considerations that different airports are set up in >> different ways, but >>>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an >> entrance that is most >>>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now >> all you have to >>>>> do >>>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound >> difficult? >>>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people >> walking by to >>>>> ask >>>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling >> suitcases and >>>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your >> questions, and >>>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who >> could be on your >>>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>>> >>>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that >> staying in line is >>>>> made >>>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane >> to gently tap >>>>> the >>>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a >> guide dog, ask >>>>> Cujo >>>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person >> ahead of you >>>>> has >>>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this >> before, you'll >>>>> get >>>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free >> to engage >>>>> said >>>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may >> be on your >>>>> flight. >>>>> >>>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. >> While you're >>>>> >>>>> at >>>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. >> If you're >>>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since >> you don't want >>>>> to >>>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a >> diligent traveler >>>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure >> of finding >>>>> your >>>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around >> exploring than it is >>>>> to >>>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>>> walking >>>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to >> your favorite >>>>> characters. >>>>> >>>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your >> characters need to >>>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, >> it's the same >>>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your >> independence unless you >>>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I >> assure you >>>>> real >>>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>>> >>>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do >> not try to get >>>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the >> airport. Just ask >>>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People >> vary in their >>>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break >> up your journey >>>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be >> less likely to >>>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>>> >>>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your >> task is to >>>>> find >>>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the >> representative >>>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the >> direction they gave >>>>> and >>>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can >> confirm these >>>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>>> sounds >>>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here >> the beep of >>>>> the >>>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>>> through >>>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>>> admonishing >>>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>>> >>>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. >> This is not >>>>> even >>>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point >> for blind and >>>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you >> don't want to >>>>> be >>>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while >> generally holding up >>>>> the >>>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be >> taken out and >>>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find >> out what is >>>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not >> work, pick up a >>>>> phone. >>>>> >>>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going >> to encounter >>>>> the >>>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and >> identification. >>>>> Ask >>>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal >> detectors. Remember >>>>> when >>>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make >> sure you fully >>>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, >> keep trying >>>>> until >>>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>>> finger >>>>> in the right direction. >>>>> >>>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>>> through >>>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants >> and ultimately >>>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do >> while flying and >>>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any >> details you think >>>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even >> frequent travelers >>>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>> sleeves, >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>>> >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your >> account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes >> tmidi.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen >> %40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless >> 86%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5125 (20100518) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of >> virus signature database 5128 (20100519) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 5129 (20100519) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co >> m >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecab > le.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne > t > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co > m > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com From jty727 at gmail.com Thu May 20 03:23:35 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 23:23:35 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School In-Reply-To: <012f01caf7ba$76ba9ec0$642fdc40$@com> References: <012f01caf7ba$76ba9ec0$642fdc40$@com> Message-ID: Hi Sean! Yes I would love any assistance because I'm unfamilar with how it works. How do you request accomadations? I know you have to take them in your Senior year before you enter your chosen law school. So far Syracus University is the only one which I've found offering anything Disability Law wise. I also wish you much luck on taking them. Look forward to many amazing chatts with you! Justin On 5/19/10, Sean Whalen wrote: > Hi Justin, > > If you look online at US News and World Report, you will find rankings of > Law Schools, both overall and by area of law. These rankings are by no means > definitive, but they are a good start. > > There are not necessarily specialized law programs. All law school attendees > receive the same J.d. degree. However, certain schools do have recognized > expertise in particular areas. > > Regarding the LSAT, get started on the accommodations process as early as > possible. I initially intended to take the LSAT in December of 09, but am > finally scheduled for the October 2010 test. I ran into an issue where the > accommodations I requested were not initially approved. I am still working > with the LSAC to reach an understanding on that front. The bottom line is > that it can take an inordinately long time to go through the process. > > If you decide to take the LSAT, feel free to be in touch with me. I have > some study materials in electronic format that I could share with you. I > would also be happy to answer any questions about the process. > > Good luck! > > Take care, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From davidb521 at gmail.com Thu May 20 03:29:18 2010 From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 22:29:18 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4bf4ac9b.2787650a.3e8c.143b@mx.google.com> If you have Web Braille with the National Library Service, you can download it from there, or order it from your state library. Also, I heard there was an audio book of it with the actual speeches incorporated in the book. David -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Fjelsted Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 8:52 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History I googled the title "Walking Alone and Marching Together!" and found some references including one on the NFB site that wants me to log in with a username and password. THe book appears to be purchasable from Amazon. Is this book available in an accessible format preferabley Braille? I would love to read it. -Kevin On 5/18/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: > You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are realizing > how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an exit > row. One thing I > forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we were > about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that would > have not > only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been > prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would have > excluded us from > quite a number of seats on some planes. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: > >>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>can't have given a better suggestion! > >>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>sighted persons I know. > >>Respectfully, >>Jedi > > >>Original message: >>> Hello Peter, > >>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>> Hello Briley and everyone, > >>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>> equal >>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the kind >>>> of >>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>>> much >>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>> bulkhead >>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>> post-board, >>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>> guard >>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>> than >>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. > >>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for several >>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>>> row; >>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand in >>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>> the >>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>> activities. >>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>> or >>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too often. >>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>>> down >>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>> and >>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>>> All >>>> the best. > >>>> Peter Donahue > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>> blindteen > > >>>> Valory, > >>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>> was >>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>> What >>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>> Media >>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>> acceptable. > >>>> Briley > > >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. > >>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>> judgement >>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>> we >>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>> unfair >>>>> to point fingers. > >>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>> needs >>>>> sighted help in everything. > >>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>> and >>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > >>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > >>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her that >>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > >>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > >>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, > >>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation too >>>>>> quickly. > >>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that I >>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>> and >>>>>> sometimes I don't. > >>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > >>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>>> cope. > >>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>> due >>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > >>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>> turn >>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the story. > >>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver Island >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>>> went >>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal shut. >>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>> check of the plane. > >>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>> news >>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, Fla., >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>> said >>>>>>> sorry." > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net > >>-- >>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40v isi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.co m > -- Kevin Fjelsted B Harris, Inc. http://www.bharrisinc.com kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 Direct: 612.424.7332 _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.co m From anjelinac26 at gmail.com Thu May 20 03:36:01 2010 From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 23:36:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> Message-ID: <19FD319125024C9680583391B5CE99E7@D9P3ZND1> Walking alone and marching together is available on Web-Braille. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Fjelsted" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History >I googled the title "Walking Alone and Marching Together!" and found > some references including one on the NFB site that wants me to log in > with a username and password. THe book appears to be purchasable from > Amazon. Is this book available in an accessible format preferabley > Braille? > I would love to read it. > -Kevin > > On 5/18/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are >> realizing >> how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an exit >> row. One thing I >> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we >> were >> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that >> would >> have not >> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been >> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would >> have >> excluded us from >> quite a number of seats on some planes. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: >> >>>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>>can't have given a better suggestion! >> >>>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>>sighted persons I know. >> >>>Respectfully, >>>Jedi >> >> >>>Original message: >>>> Hello Peter, >> >>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >> >>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >> >>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >> >>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case >>>> of >>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >> >> >>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>>> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >>>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>>> equal >>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>>> kind >>>>> of >>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, >>>>> and >>>>> much >>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by >>>>> airline >>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>>> bulkhead >>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>>> post-board, >>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the >>>>> late >>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>>> guard >>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested >>>>> and >>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>>> than >>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> >>>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>>> several >>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency >>>>> exit >>>>> row; >>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several >>>>> protest >>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>>> in >>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>>> the >>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>>> activities. >>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>>> or >>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>>> often. >>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, >>>>> "Sitting >>>>> down >>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>>> and >>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they >>>>> are. >>>>> All >>>>> the best. >> >>>>> Peter Donahue >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>>> blindteen >> >> >>>>> Valory, >> >>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>>> was >>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>>> What >>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>>> Media >>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it >>>>> does >>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>>> acceptable. >> >>>>> Briley >> >> >>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >> >>>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >> >>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>>> judgement >>>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>>> we >>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>>> unfair >>>>>> to point fingers. >> >>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB >>>>>> who >>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>>> needs >>>>>> sighted help in everything. >> >>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>>> and >>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB >>>>>> as >>>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >> >>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >> >>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>>> that >>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >> >>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >> >>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>>> too >>>>>>> quickly. >> >>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes I don't. >> >>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >> >>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they >>>>>>> must >>>>>>> cope. >> >>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>>> due >>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >> >> >>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> >>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>>> story. >> >>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>>> Island >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >> >>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>>> check of the plane. >> >>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>>> news >>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >> >>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>> sorry." >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >>>-- >>>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kevin Fjelsted > B Harris, Inc. > http://www.bharrisinc.com > kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted > Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 > Direct: 612.424.7332 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com > From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com Thu May 20 04:19:24 2010 From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 23:19:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013601caf7d3$a4542ae0$ecfc80a0$@com> Justin, You can find accommodation request materials at www.lsac.org. There are forms which you must fill out as well as forms that a medical professional must fill. Additionally, they will ask for history of accommodations in college and on past standardized tests. When requesting accommodations, be as specific and explicit as possible about what you want. It is a good idea to look at practice LSAT materials beforehand to help you make a determination as to which accommodations you will want to ask for. I know that viewing practice logic games ahead of time and devising strategies to deal with them helped me to ask for the most useful accommodations. I, for example, requested to be able to use MS Excel for logic games, which in most cases are dealt with by drawing diagrams. Excel offers the ability to put things in a much clearer spacial context than notes in a Word document. This has proved helpful, and I would have never thought to make such a request if I hadn't done practice problems. What year are you in school and when are you thinking about attending law school? Look around, though I am not familiar with many, there are surely at least a handful of schools with strength in disability law. Do some research online, and talk to prospective schools to see which program best fits your desires. Take care, Sean From jj at bestmidi.com Thu May 20 04:32:09 2010 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 00:32:09 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] BBQ in Dallas Message-ID: <1985E91021F74FF4B2E5B7A5ED65C5EF@jage> This seemingly shouldn't be hard to find, but I can not seem to locate the date for the BBQ in Dallas. It's mentioned in a number of places, but apparently everyone just knows when it is telepathically? If I were a guessing man, I'd say Tuesday, but want to make sure. Thanks. J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor From graduate56 at juno.com Thu May 20 04:36:36 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 22:36:36 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus><40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> Message-ID: This has been a really good topic for discussion. I wonder though how do you find your new gate whin its been changed? There is noone around and there has been no announcement. So how is this acomplished? Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Joe, > This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can > incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be > intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a > trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that > I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at > the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my > hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking > me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how > she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could > travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was > able to travel to my gate. > > My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the > right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick > you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm > and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline > personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not > give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week > has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little > frazzled. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to >> incorporate it into the resources page. >> >> Thanks much, >> Meghan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to >>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. >>> >>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think >>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on >>> one >>> >>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, >>> bathrooms, >>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and >>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A >>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>> >>> >>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. >>> So >>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've >>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to >>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to >>> you. >>> >>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>> >>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible >>> to >>> >>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled >>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on >>> luggage >>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can >>> go >>> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or >>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>> >>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline >>> and >>> >>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for >>> American >>> >>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport >>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>> >>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander >>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will >>> often >>> >>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>> >>> Who's next? >>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some >>>> of >>>> the >>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>> actions, >>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >>>> of >>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >>>> for >>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >>>> our >>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>>> first >>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>> >>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as >>>> possible >>>> >>>> to >>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >>>> make >>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult >>>> to >>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >>>> rates >>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >>>> being >>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations >>>> like >>>> the >>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >>>> the >>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>>> stand >>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>>> need >>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>>> your >>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >>>> if >>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >>>> Southwest. >>>> >>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >>>> will >>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, >>>> but >>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is >>>> most >>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have >>>> to >>>> do >>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >>>> ask >>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, >>>> and >>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on >>>> your >>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>> >>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >>>> made >>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >>>> the >>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >>>> Cujo >>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >>>> has >>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, >>>> you'll >>>> get >>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>>> said >>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >>>> flight. >>>> >>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While >>>> you're >>>> >>>> at >>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >>>> to >>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent >>>> traveler >>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >>>> your >>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it >>>> is >>>> to >>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>> walking >>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your >>>> favorite >>>> characters. >>>> >>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the >>>> same >>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless >>>> you >>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>>> real >>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>> >>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to >>>> get >>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just >>>> ask >>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in >>>> their >>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your >>>> journey >>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely >>>> to >>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>> >>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>>> find >>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the >>>> representative >>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >>>> and >>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>> sounds >>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >>>> the >>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>> through >>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>> admonishing >>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>> >>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>>> even >>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >>>> be >>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >>>> the >>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out >>>> and >>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up >>>> a >>>> phone. >>>> >>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to >>>> encounter >>>> the >>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >>>> Ask >>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >>>> when >>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >>>> until >>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>> finger >>>> in the right direction. >>>> >>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>> through >>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and >>>> ultimately >>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying >>>> and >>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you >>>> think >>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent >>>> travelers >>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Top-Ranked Online MBA's Your U.S. News® Guide to Online MBA's. Fully Accredited - Free Info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bc4faabde5380f7st06vuc From graduate56 at juno.com Thu May 20 04:43:03 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 22:43:03 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> Message-ID: <3E874113F22546AB8E0F8E6BCE793820@melissa> I believe that this book is also an MP3 download. I got an e-mail about this about two or three months ago. I wonder if its still available somewhere? Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Fjelsted" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History >I googled the title "Walking Alone and Marching Together!" and found > some references including one on the NFB site that wants me to log in > with a username and password. THe book appears to be purchasable from > Amazon. Is this book available in an accessible format preferabley > Braille? > I would love to read it. > -Kevin > > On 5/18/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >> You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are >> realizing >> how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an exit >> row. One thing I >> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we >> were >> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that >> would >> have not >> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been >> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would >> have >> excluded us from >> quite a number of seats on some planes. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Steve Jacobson >> >> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: >> >>>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>>can't have given a better suggestion! >> >>>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>>sighted persons I know. >> >>>Respectfully, >>>Jedi >> >> >>>Original message: >>>> Hello Peter, >> >>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >> >>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >> >>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >> >>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case >>>> of >>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >> >> >>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>>> Hello Briley and everyone, >> >>>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>>> equal >>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>>> kind >>>>> of >>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, >>>>> and >>>>> much >>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by >>>>> airline >>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>>> bulkhead >>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>>> post-board, >>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the >>>>> late >>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>>> guard >>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested >>>>> and >>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>>> than >>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >> >>>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>>> several >>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency >>>>> exit >>>>> row; >>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several >>>>> protest >>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>>> in >>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>>> the >>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>>> activities. >>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>>> or >>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>>> often. >>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, >>>>> "Sitting >>>>> down >>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>>> and >>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they >>>>> are. >>>>> All >>>>> the best. >> >>>>> Peter Donahue >> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>>> blindteen >> >> >>>>> Valory, >> >>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>>> was >>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>>> What >>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>>> Media >>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it >>>>> does >>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>>> acceptable. >> >>>>> Briley >> >> >>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >> >> >>>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >> >>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>>> judgement >>>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>>> we >>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>>> unfair >>>>>> to point fingers. >> >>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB >>>>>> who >>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>>> needs >>>>>> sighted help in everything. >> >>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>>> and >>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB >>>>>> as >>>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >> >>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >> >>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>>> that >>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >> >>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >> >>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>>> too >>>>>>> quickly. >> >>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes I don't. >> >>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >> >>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they >>>>>>> must >>>>>>> cope. >> >>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>>> due >>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >> >> >>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >> >>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>>> story. >> >>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >> >>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >> >>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>>> Island >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >> >>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after >>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on >>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >> >>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>>> check of the plane. >> >>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >> >>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>>> news >>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >> >>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>> sorry." >> >> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >> >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >> >> >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> >>>-- >>>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>nabs-l mailing list >>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Kevin Fjelsted > B Harris, Inc. > http://www.bharrisinc.com > kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com > http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted > Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 > Direct: 612.424.7332 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bdd0b66325d709fst05vuc From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu May 20 05:27:24 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 01:27:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: References: <91C0D38124D642A1B76BB443858DF440@Rufus><40F2F0E499B248898BAF36171F4D494A@jage> Message-ID: <0D4B783E6A414B7C876529E414C16BD9@Rufus> Hi Melissa, There are always exceptions, but I don't know that I've ever encountered a situation where gate changes were not announced either on the plane shortly before landing or via the airport's announcement system. To make sure though remember that if you are changing planes, there is always a representative just inside the gate after leaving the jet way. Ask them to double check that you are going to the right location. If you are headed to the gate for your first flight, you may wind up needing to go to the gate you were told and double check with the agent at the desk. It is highly unlikely that last-minute gate changes would not be announced throughout the airport. Regardless, you are at an airport, and even late at night or early in the morning you are never going to be in a situation where there is no one around to confirm your information. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa Green Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:37 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air This has been a really good topic for discussion. I wonder though how do you find your new gate whin its been changed? There is noone around and there has been no announcement. So how is this acomplished? Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Domonique Lawless" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > Joe, > This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can > incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be > intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a > trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that > I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at > the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my > hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking > me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how > she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could > travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was > able to travel to my gate. > > My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the > right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick > you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm > and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline > personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not > give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week > has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little > frazzled. > > Best Wishes, > Domonique > > On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to >> incorporate it into the resources page. >> >> Thanks much, >> Meghan >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >> list" >> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> >> >>> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to >>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. >>> >>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think >>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on >>> one >>> >>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, >>> bathrooms, >>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and >>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A >>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>> >>> >>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. >>> So >>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've >>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to >>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to >>> you. >>> >>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>> >>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible >>> to >>> >>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled >>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on >>> luggage >>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can >>> go >>> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or >>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>> >>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline >>> and >>> >>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for >>> American >>> >>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport >>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>> >>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander >>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will >>> often >>> >>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>> >>> Who's next? >>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>> >>> >>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some >>>> of >>>> the >>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>> actions, >>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >>>> of >>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >>>> for >>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >>>> our >>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>>> first >>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>> >>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>> >>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as >>>> possible >>>> >>>> to >>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >>>> make >>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult >>>> to >>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >>>> rates >>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >>>> being >>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations >>>> like >>>> the >>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >>>> the >>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>>> stand >>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>>> need >>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>>> your >>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >>>> if >>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >>>> Southwest. >>>> >>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >>>> will >>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, >>>> but >>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is >>>> most >>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have >>>> to >>>> do >>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >>>> ask >>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, >>>> and >>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on >>>> your >>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>> >>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >>>> made >>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >>>> the >>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >>>> Cujo >>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >>>> has >>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, >>>> you'll >>>> get >>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>>> said >>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >>>> flight. >>>> >>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While >>>> you're >>>> >>>> at >>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >>>> to >>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent >>>> traveler >>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >>>> your >>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it >>>> is >>>> to >>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>> walking >>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your >>>> favorite >>>> characters. >>>> >>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the >>>> same >>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless >>>> you >>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>>> real >>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>> >>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to >>>> get >>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just >>>> ask >>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in >>>> their >>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your >>>> journey >>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely >>>> to >>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>> >>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>>> find >>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the >>>> representative >>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >>>> and >>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>> sounds >>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >>>> the >>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>> through >>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>> admonishing >>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>> >>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>>> even >>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >>>> be >>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >>>> the >>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out >>>> and >>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up >>>> a >>>> phone. >>>> >>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to >>>> encounter >>>> the >>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >>>> Ask >>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >>>> when >>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >>>> until >>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>> finger >>>> in the right direction. >>>> >>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>> through >>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and >>>> ultimately >>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying >>>> and >>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you >>>> think >>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent >>>> travelers >>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>> sleeves, >>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>> >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>> signature >>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bes tmidi.com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen %40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless 86%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate 56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ Top-Ranked Online MBA's Your U.S. News® Guide to Online MBA's. Fully Accredited - Free Info! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bc4faabde5380f7st06vuc _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5130 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5130 (20100519) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From JFreeh at nfb.org Thu May 20 10:51:08 2010 From: JFreeh at nfb.org (Freeh, Jessica) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 05:51:08 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Key Stakeholders Agree on Measures to Protect Blind Pedestrians from Silent Cars Message-ID: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Chris Danielsen Director of Public Relations National Federation of the Blind (410) 659-9314, extension 2330 (410) 262-1281 (Cell) cdanielsen at nfb.org Key Stakeholders Agree on Measures to Protect Blind Pedestrians from Silent Cars Urge Passage as Part of Motor Vehicle Safety Act Baltimore, Maryland (May 19, 2010): The National Federation of the Blind (NFB), the American Council of the Blind (ACB), the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers (AAM), and the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers (AIAM) announced today that they have agreed on proposed legislative language that will protect blind pedestrians and others from the danger posed by silent vehicle technology. The four organizations are urging Congress to adopt and pass the language as part of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 2010­which is currently pending in both houses of Congress­as quickly as possible. The proposed language would require the Department of Transportation to promulgate a motor vehicle safety standard requiring automobiles to emit a minimum level of sound to alert the blind and other pedestrians. Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said: “The National Federation of the Blind commends the automobile industry for its leadership on this issue and for its genuine concern for the safety of blind Americans, cyclists, runners, small children, and other pedestrians. We look forward to working with the parties to this agreement, the United States Congress, and the Department of Transportation to ensure that America’s streets remain safe, both for those who drive and for those who do not.” "Good policy is a collaborative effort, and this is a good approach for pedestrians and automakers," said Dave McCurdy, President and CEO of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. Because blind pedestrians cannot locate and evaluate traffic using their vision, they must listen to traffic to discern its speed, direction, and other attributes in order to travel safely and independently. Other people, including pedestrians who are not blind, cyclists, runners, seniors, and small children, also benefit from hearing the sound of vehicle engines. New vehicles that employ hybrid or electric engine technology can be silent, rendering them extremely dangerous in situations where vehicles and pedestrians come into proximity with each other. A recent report released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) stated that hybrid and electric vehicles are nearly twice as likely to be involved in accidents with pedestrians as vehicles with internal combustion engines. ### About the National Federation of the Blind With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people’s lives through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind. From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu May 20 14:03:11 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:03:11 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Walking Alone and Marching Together Text and Audio Message-ID: <00c301caf825$30152150$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Good morning everyone, Below are links to Walking Alone and Marching Together. There are text and audio versions. The audio version is in MP3 Format and includes the original recordings of speeches and other presentations given by federation leaders: Text Only: http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/books/WAMT/wamtc.htm Audio: http://www.nfb.org/nfb/WAMT.asp?SnID=257718526 Enjoy. Peter Donahue "Will you come and awake our lost land from its slumber And her fetters we'll break, links that long are encumbered. And the air will resound with hosannas to greet you On the shore will be found gallant Irishmen to greet you." Will You Come to the Bower Traditional Irish Folk Song From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu May 20 14:49:55 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (bookwormahb at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 10:49:55 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog Message-ID: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> Hi all, A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about this. Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such as training center experiences. Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for two purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I go back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and reflect on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write my opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog entry? Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am looking for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I also think a blog will let anyone know more about me. Thanks! Ashley From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu May 20 15:09:33 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 10:09:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blogging: A sample Message-ID: WordPress.comHello: Here is a sample blog done by a blind lady who is getting a guide dog. This site would seem to be accessible. Regards, Robert Jaquiss ----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvia's Guide Dog Tale To: rjaquiss at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:31 AM Subject: [New post] Guide dog journey Guide dog journey Sylvia | May 20, 2010 at 9:31 am | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: http://wp.me/pPVh1-1P 5/20/10 How do you pack for 26 days! I’ve been working on getting myself packed in my spare time this week. How in the world do you pack for a 26 day trip away from home-you get a steamer trunk. The hilarious thing is that Seeing Eye suggested we bring only one bag and actually [...] Read more of this post Add a comment to this post WordPress.com | Thanks for flying with WordPress! Manage Subscriptions | One-click Unsubscribe | Publish text, photos, music, and videos by email using our Post by Email feature. Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: http://subscribe.wordpress.com From rjaquiss at earthlink.net Thu May 20 15:11:28 2010 From: rjaquiss at earthlink.net (Robert Jaquiss) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 10:11:28 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] New book from VIEW International Foundation Message-ID: Hello: VIEW International Foundation is please to announce that we have a new book available. This is the start of a new series which we are calling the Anne and Alex Explorer Series. The title is: Anne and Alex 1996; Book One. Anne age seven is Sighted and Alex age six is Blind. Anne and Alex are to be adopted by the family of Ben and Mary Walker who live in Forest Grove Oregon. Anne and Alex embark on a series of adventures. They visit real places which their readers could also visit. This series is intended for junior high and above. The good characters in this series adhere to traditional family values. For more information, to read a few chapters and have an opportunity to purchase a copy click on the following link: http://www.viewinternational.org/viewprojects.html Look for the word "Anne" for faster navigation. Regards, Robert Jaquiss From jty727 at gmail.com Thu May 20 15:45:47 2010 From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:45:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Going to Law School In-Reply-To: <013601caf7d3$a4542ae0$ecfc80a0$@com> References: <013601caf7d3$a4542ae0$ecfc80a0$@com> Message-ID: Well, I'll be at Nazareth College for 2 years and I'm not sure if I will go right after that or take a year off because I'd also liked to do the program for being certified as a Braille transcriber/proof reader. So, 3 to 4 years from now! On 5/20/10, Sean Whalen wrote: > Justin, > > You can find accommodation request materials at www.lsac.org. There are > forms which you must fill out as well as forms that a medical professional > must fill. Additionally, they will ask for history of accommodations in > college and on past standardized tests. > > When requesting accommodations, be as specific and explicit as possible > about what you want. It is a good idea to look at practice LSAT materials > beforehand to help you make a determination as to which accommodations you > will want to ask for. I know that viewing practice logic games ahead of time > and devising strategies to deal with them helped me to ask for the most > useful accommodations. I, for example, requested to be able to use MS Excel > for logic games, which in most cases are dealt with by drawing diagrams. > Excel offers the ability to put things in a much clearer spacial context > than notes in a Word document. This has proved helpful, and I would have > never thought to make such a request if I hadn't done practice problems. > > What year are you in school and when are you thinking about attending law > school? > > Look around, though I am not familiar with many, there are surely at least a > handful of schools with strength in disability law. Do some research online, > and talk to prospective schools to see which program best fits your desires. > > Take care, > > Sean > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu May 20 15:55:47 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 11:55:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air Message-ID: <20100520155547.17489.92253@web1> I often plan on the possibility that my gate's been changed, so I just ask someone who's getting off my first flight with me to read the monitor or ask a ticket agent anywhere in the vacinity. You do bring up a good point though: there should be an accessible way for getting at gate change information such as a phone line or something. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > This has been a really good topic for discussion. > I wonder though how do you find your new gate whin its been changed? > There is noone around and there has been no announcement. > So how is this acomplished? > Melissa Green > No person has the right to rain on your dreams. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Domonique Lawless" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >> Joe, >> This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can >> incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be >> intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a >> trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that >> I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at >> the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my >> hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking >> me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how >> she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could >> travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was >> able to travel to my gate. >> My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the >> right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick >> you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm >> and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline >> personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not >> give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week >> has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little >> frazzled. >> Best Wishes, >> Domonique >> On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >>> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way to >>> incorporate it into the resources page. >>> Thanks much, >>> Meghan >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing >>> list" >>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>>> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places to >>>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. >>>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, think >>>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on >>>> one >>>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, >>>> bathrooms, >>>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side and >>>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the A >>>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. >>>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. >>>> So >>>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates you've >>>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is to >>>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to >>>> you. >>>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. >>>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >>>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >>>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very feasible >>>> to >>>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >>>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >>>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be singled >>>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on >>>> luggage >>>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can >>>> go >>>> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved or >>>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. >>>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >>>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline >>>> and >>>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for >>>> American >>>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >>>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the airport >>>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. >>>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either wander >>>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >>>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will >>>> often >>>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>>> found, such as the nearest gate. >>>> Who's next? >>>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. >>>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>>> actions, >>>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a myriad >>>>> of >>>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a week >>>>> for >>>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>>>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation of >>>>> our >>>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>>>> first >>>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: >>>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air >>>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as >>>>> possible >>>>> to >>>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible to >>>>> make >>>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult >>>>> to >>>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the telephone >>>>> rates >>>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your not >>>>> being >>>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations >>>>> like >>>>> the >>>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to find >>>>> the >>>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>>>> stand >>>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>>>> need >>>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>>>> your >>>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your seat >>>>> if >>>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're flying >>>>> Southwest. >>>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline counters >>>>> will >>>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, >>>>> but >>>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is >>>>> most >>>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have >>>>> to >>>>> do >>>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound difficult? >>>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by to >>>>> ask >>>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases and >>>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, >>>>> and >>>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on >>>>> your >>>>> plane headed to the same destination. >>>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line is >>>>> made >>>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently tap >>>>> the >>>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, ask >>>>> Cujo >>>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of you >>>>> has >>>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, >>>>> you'll >>>>> get >>>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>>>> said >>>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on your >>>>> flight. >>>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While >>>>> you're >>>>> at >>>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't want >>>>> to >>>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent >>>>> traveler >>>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of finding >>>>> your >>>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it >>>>> is >>>>> to >>>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>>> walking >>>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your >>>>> favorite >>>>> characters. >>>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need to >>>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the >>>>> same >>>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless >>>>> you >>>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>>>> real >>>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. >>>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to >>>>> get >>>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just >>>>> ask >>>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in >>>>> their >>>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your >>>>> journey >>>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less likely >>>>> to >>>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. >>>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>>>> find >>>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the >>>>> representative >>>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they gave >>>>> and >>>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>>> sounds >>>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep of >>>>> the >>>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>>> through >>>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>>> admonishing >>>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? >>>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>>>> even >>>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind and >>>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want to >>>>> be >>>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding up >>>>> the >>>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out >>>>> and >>>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick up >>>>> a >>>>> phone. >>>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to >>>>> encounter >>>>> the >>>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and identification. >>>>> Ask >>>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. Remember >>>>> when >>>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you fully >>>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep trying >>>>> until >>>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>>> finger >>>>> in the right direction. >>>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>>> through >>>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and >>>>> ultimately >>>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying >>>>> and >>>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you >>>>> think >>>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent >>>>> travelers >>>>> may learn a thing or two. >>>>> Best, >>>>> Joe >>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>> sleeves, >>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>> signature >>>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ >>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>>>> http://www.eset.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > ____________________________________________________________ > Top-Ranked Online MBA's > Your U.S. News® Guide to Online MBA's. Fully Accredited - Free Info! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bc4faabde5380f7st06vuc > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Thu May 20 17:04:34 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 13:04:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blogging: A sample References: Message-ID: Hi Robert, Thanks for sharing. It was an interesting read. It was written in a personable style. I noticed there was a comment or two after it. I wonder if that is normal. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:09 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Blogging: A sample > WordPress.comHello: > > Here is a sample blog done by a blind lady who is getting a guide dog. > This site would seem to be accessible. > > Regards, > > Robert Jaquiss > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sylvia's Guide Dog Tale > To: rjaquiss at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:31 AM > Subject: [New post] Guide dog journey > > > Guide dog journey > Sylvia | May 20, 2010 at 9:31 am | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: > http://wp.me/pPVh1-1P > > 5/20/10 How do you pack for 26 days! I’ve been working on getting myself > packed in my spare time this week. How in the world do you pack for a 26 > day trip away from home-you get a steamer trunk. The hilarious thing is > that Seeing Eye suggested we bring only one bag and actually [...] > > Read more of this post > > Add a comment to this post > > > WordPress.com | Thanks for flying with WordPress! > Manage Subscriptions | One-click Unsubscribe | Publish text, photos, > music, and videos by email using our Post by Email feature. > > > Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: > http://subscribe.wordpress.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From liamskitten at gmail.com Thu May 20 17:48:33 2010 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 12:48:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> Message-ID: Ashley, www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command interface. Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to content featured on one in the other. If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll be more than happy to help. Courtney On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: > Hi all, > > A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about this. > Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such as > training center experiences. > > Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for two > purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I go > back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write > articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and reflect > on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about > volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write my > opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. > > What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? > Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital > recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog > entry? > > Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my > writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am looking > for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I also > think a blog will let anyone know more about me. > > Thanks! > > Ashley > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From jkenn337 at gmail.com Thu May 20 17:56:28 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 13:56:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history Message-ID: <4BF577CC.4000503@gmail.com> Hi Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open that exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can quickly read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the sky, or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion that its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, that a sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can see who knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door open in the quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're sitting there trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a plane full of pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone comes along shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. Then you got a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jj at bestmidi.com Thu May 20 18:06:49 2010 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 14:06:49 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air References: <20100520155547.17489.92253@web1> Message-ID: <5DF608CBA9734144B4027067A940A0C0@jage> Jedi and all, Maybe this got missed in one of those long replies, but you can text Google for the info. Text your flight number to 46645, such as "aa 250" or "southwest 1507". This info is usually quite current. J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jedi" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air >I often plan on the possibility that my gate's been changed, so I just ask >someone who's getting off my first flight with me to read the monitor or >ask a ticket agent anywhere in the vacinity. You do bring up a good point >though: there should be an accessible way for getting at gate change >information such as a phone line or something. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> This has been a really good topic for discussion. >> I wonder though how do you find your new gate whin its been changed? >> There is noone around and there has been no announcement. >> So how is this acomplished? >> Melissa Green >> No person has the right to rain on your dreams. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Domonique Lawless" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >>> Joe, >>> This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can >>> incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be >>> intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a >>> trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that >>> I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at >>> the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my >>> hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking >>> me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how >>> she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could >>> travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was >>> able to travel to my gate. > >>> My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the >>> right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick >>> you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm >>> and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline >>> personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not >>> give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week >>> has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little >>> frazzled. > >>> Best Wishes, >>> Domonique > >>> On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >>>> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best way >>>> to >>>> incorporate it into the resources page. > >>>> Thanks much, >>>> Meghan >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >>>>> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing places >>>>> to >>>>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of points. > >>>>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, >>>>> think >>>>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the gates on >>>>> one > >>>>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, >>>>> bathrooms, >>>>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one side >>>>> and >>>>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>>>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as the >>>>> A >>>>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. > > >>>>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each other. >>>>> So >>>>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates >>>>> you've >>>>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse is >>>>> to >>>>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to >>>>> you. > >>>>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. > >>>>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save the >>>>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket flagged as >>>>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very >>>>> feasible >>>>> to > >>>>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>>>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>>>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It can >>>>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a bit >>>>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be >>>>> singled >>>>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on >>>>> luggage >>>>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you can >>>>> go >>>>> straight through security to your gate without your seat being moved >>>>> or >>>>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. > >>>>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>>>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can use >>>>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your airline >>>>> and > >>>>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for >>>>> American > >>>>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>>>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet access. >>>>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the >>>>> airport >>>>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. > >>>>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either >>>>> wander >>>>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses clanging, >>>>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will >>>>> often > >>>>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>>>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>>>> found, such as the nearest gate. > >>>>> Who's next? >>>>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. > > >>>>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >>>>>> Dear all, > >>>>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same thing in >>>>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>>>> actions, >>>>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a >>>>>> myriad >>>>>> of >>>>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a >>>>>> week >>>>>> for >>>>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the NABS >>>>>> website these days could create individual pages with a compilation >>>>>> of >>>>>> our >>>>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>>>>> first >>>>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: > >>>>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air > >>>>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as >>>>>> possible > >>>>>> to >>>>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is possible >>>>>> to >>>>>> make >>>>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult >>>>>> to >>>>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the >>>>>> telephone >>>>>> rates >>>>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your >>>>>> not >>>>>> being >>>>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations >>>>>> like >>>>>> the >>>>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to >>>>>> find >>>>>> the >>>>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>>>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid having to >>>>>> stand >>>>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>>>>> need >>>>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking into >>>>>> your >>>>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose your >>>>>> seat >>>>>> if >>>>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're >>>>>> flying >>>>>> Southwest. > >>>>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline >>>>>> counters >>>>>> will >>>>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>>>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, >>>>>> but >>>>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is >>>>>> most >>>>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have >>>>>> to >>>>>> do >>>>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound >>>>>> difficult? >>>>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking by >>>>>> to >>>>>> ask >>>>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases >>>>>> and >>>>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your questions, >>>>>> and >>>>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on >>>>>> your >>>>>> plane headed to the same destination. > >>>>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in line >>>>>> is >>>>>> made >>>>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to gently >>>>>> tap >>>>>> the >>>>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, >>>>>> ask >>>>>> Cujo >>>>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead of >>>>>> you >>>>>> has >>>>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, >>>>>> you'll >>>>>> get >>>>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>>>>> said >>>>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on >>>>>> your >>>>>> flight. > >>>>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While >>>>>> you're > >>>>>> at >>>>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>>>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you don't >>>>>> want >>>>>> to >>>>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent >>>>>> traveler >>>>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of >>>>>> finding >>>>>> your >>>>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it >>>>>> is >>>>>> to >>>>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>>>> walking >>>>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your >>>>>> favorite >>>>>> characters. > >>>>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters need >>>>>> to >>>>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the >>>>>> same >>>>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless >>>>>> you >>>>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>>>>> real >>>>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. > >>>>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not try to >>>>>> get >>>>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just >>>>>> ask >>>>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in >>>>>> their >>>>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your >>>>>> journey >>>>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less >>>>>> likely >>>>>> to >>>>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. > >>>>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task is to >>>>>> find >>>>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the >>>>>> representative >>>>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they >>>>>> gave >>>>>> and >>>>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm these >>>>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>>>> sounds >>>>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the beep >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>>>> through >>>>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>>>> admonishing >>>>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? > >>>>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is >>>>>> not >>>>>> even >>>>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for blind >>>>>> and >>>>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't want >>>>>> to >>>>>> be >>>>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally holding >>>>>> up >>>>>> the >>>>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out >>>>>> and >>>>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>>>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, pick >>>>>> up >>>>>> a >>>>>> phone. > >>>>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to >>>>>> encounter >>>>>> the >>>>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and >>>>>> identification. >>>>>> Ask >>>>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. >>>>>> Remember >>>>>> when >>>>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you >>>>>> fully >>>>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep >>>>>> trying >>>>>> until >>>>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>>>> finger >>>>>> in the right direction. > >>>>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>>>> through >>>>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and >>>>>> ultimately >>>>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying >>>>>> and >>>>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you >>>>>> think >>>>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent >>>>>> travelers >>>>>> may learn a thing or two. > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Joe > >>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ > >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>> http://www.eset.com > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > > >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Top-Ranked Online MBA's >> Your U.S. News® Guide to Online MBA's. Fully Accredited - Free Info! >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bc4faabde5380f7st06vuc > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com > From corbbo at gmail.com Thu May 20 18:12:39 2010 From: corbbo at gmail.com (Corbb O'Connor) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 14:12:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] 2011 Spring Internships with the Dept of State: Message-ID: Special thanks to Nikki Jeffords at the Department for the Blind and Vision IMpaired in Virginia for passing this along! 2011 Spring Internships with the Dept of State: Please note that the deadline to submit completed applications is July 01, 2010. You must be a U.S. Citizen and a student (a full- or part-time continuing college or university junior, or graduate student - including graduating seniors intending to go on to graduate school) to be eligible. Please read the program description and vacancy announcement for more information. We appreciate your interest in a career with the U.S. Department of State. http://careers.state.gov/students/programs.html#SIP From mgoalball at gmail.com Thu May 20 18:32:47 2010 From: mgoalball at gmail.com (Matt McCubbin) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 14:32:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air In-Reply-To: <20100520155547.17489.92253@web1> References: <20100520155547.17489.92253@web1> Message-ID: <4BF5804F.7050103@gmail.com> Earlier in the thread, J.J. brought up a good point regarding Google. If you have an accessible phone, you can text Google for flight information. For instance, texting aa 1080 would return the flight information for American airlines flight 1080. Flight information includes departure and arrival times, current gate information, and the phone number to the airline. It is also benificial to create a note in your phone's notes program with your airline and flight number. That way, you don't have to keep typing in the information manually, and you can just send Google the note. If you are taking multiple flights, simply create two or three notes with this information. It is helpful to text Google often during your trip. Once before you leave your house, and even during the car/cab ride to the airport. I have had instances where gate information has changed, and I would have ended up at the wrong terminal if I hadn't checked my flight status. If I am taking a connecting flight, I'll text Google for the second flight's information immediately when when the first flight lands. You are aloud to use your phone once the wheels touchdown on the runway. I will still ask people around me for directions, especially in an unfamiliar terminal. But this service has definitely saved me time and hassles, and is a definite benifit to having an accessible phone. Best regards, Matt On 5/20/2010 11:55 AM, Jedi wrote: > I often plan on the possibility that my gate's been changed, so I just > ask someone who's getting off my first flight with me to read the > monitor or ask a ticket agent anywhere in the vacinity. You do bring > up a good point though: there should be an accessible way for getting > at gate change information such as a phone line or something. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > > Original message: >> This has been a really good topic for discussion. >> I wonder though how do you find your new gate whin its been changed? >> There is noone around and there has been no announcement. >> So how is this acomplished? >> Melissa Green >> No person has the right to rain on your dreams. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Domonique Lawless" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >>> Joe, >>> This is a great idea and I'm sure that Meghan who is most talented can >>> incorperate this into our site. Another thing to add is not to be >>> intimidated by airline personell. When I was traveling home from a >>> trip to China a skycap wouldn't listen to me when I said politely that >>> I didn't need assistance. She kept insisting that I follow her and at >>> the time I had no choice since she snatched my boarding pass out of my >>> hand after I deboarded and went through customs. She ended up taking >>> me to the special service room where I explained to her coworker how >>> she wouldn't respect my wishes and give me back my ticket so I could >>> travel to my gate. Since I firmly held my ground I got my way and was >>> able to travel to my gate. > >>> My point is that only you know what's best for you and no one has the >>> right to push you around, whether they want to take your cane or stick >>> you in a "special" room all by yourself. It is best to remain as calm >>> and informative as possible when dealing with stubborn airline >>> personell but sometimes you have to let the gloves come off and not >>> give in. I appologize if this doesn't make any sense. This past week >>> has been exceptionally stressful and my brain is still a little >>> frazzled. > >>> Best Wishes, >>> Domonique > >>> On 5/17/10, Meghan Whalen wrote: >>>> This is great material for the website. I'll figure out the best >>>> way to >>>> incorporate it into the resources page. > >>>> Thanks much, >>>> Meghan >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "J.J. Meddaugh" >>>> To: ; "National Association of Blind Students >>>> mailing >>>> list" >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:55 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >>>>> While airports can often seem like some of the most confusing >>>>> places to >>>>> navigate, they are often the most simple. Consider a couple of >>>>> points. > >>>>> Gates are usually organized in numerical order. For many airports, >>>>> think >>>>> of the gate area as a long hallway. Some will have all of the >>>>> gates on >>>>> one > >>>>> side of the hallway and other places (restaurants, gift shops, >>>>> bathrooms, >>>>> etc.) on the other side. Other airports place odd gates on one >>>>> side and >>>>> even gates on the other side. A few larger airports will have two >>>>> different sets of gates, one on each side of the hallway, such as >>>>> the A >>>>> gates on the left and the B gates on the right. > > >>>>> In many cases, these gates will be 50-100 feet a part from each >>>>> other. >>>>> So >>>>> you can use this judgment to get an idea of about how many gates >>>>> you've >>>>> traveled. What you may try doing once you find the right concourse >>>>> is to >>>>> travel down a few gates and then ask someone which gate is nearest to >>>>> you. > >>>>> You can also ask if it's on the left or right side. > >>>>> If you can avoid printing your ticket at the airport, you may save >>>>> the >>>>> hassle of having your seat reassigned or having your ticket >>>>> flagged as >>>>> needing special assistance. For shorter trips, it's often very >>>>> feasible >>>>> to > >>>>> not check any bags. Remember, you are allowed one carry-on and one >>>>> personal item. Many travelers stretch this to using a laptop bag as a >>>>> personal item and a smalled wheeled suitcase as their carry-on. It >>>>> can >>>>> generally measure 22 by 14 by 9, though some airlines allow bags a >>>>> bit >>>>> larger and as long as you're close to this number, you won't be >>>>> singled >>>>> out by a gate agent or TSA employee. If you can stick to carry-on >>>>> luggage >>>>> and print your boarding pass before you arrive at the airport, you >>>>> can >>>>> go >>>>> straight through security to your gate without your seat being >>>>> moved or >>>>> any airline agents messing with your reservation. > >>>>> Be sure to check on your flight from time to time to ensure the gate >>>>> hasn't changed or your flight is still running on time. If you can >>>>> use >>>>> text messaging on your phone, you can send a message with your >>>>> airline >>>>> and > >>>>> flight number to Google (46645). For instance, text "aa 2500" for >>>>> American > >>>>> Airlines flight 2500. You will receive a text back with the current >>>>> information. Alternatively, most airports offer wi-fi Internet >>>>> access. >>>>> While there is usually a fee to access the Internet, usually the >>>>> airport >>>>> website and/or flight tracker is accessible for free. > >>>>> Also, you may be looking for a snack or some food. You can either >>>>> wander >>>>> down your concourse and listen for sounds of grills, glasses >>>>> clanging, >>>>> cash registers, people ordering, etc. Or, the airport's website will >>>>> often > >>>>> have a list of food establishments and other landmarks. The better >>>>> websites also show where in each concourse a particular place can be >>>>> found, such as the nearest gate. > >>>>> Who's next? >>>>> Thanks, Joe, for starting this very useful idea. > > >>>>> J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com >>>>> A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Joe Orozco" >>>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 5:48 PM >>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] How to Files - Traveling by Air > > >>>>>> Dear all, > >>>>>> It seems the recent article resonated with some of our members. Some >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> responses suggest some people would have done the exact same >>>>>> thing in >>>>>> similar circumstances, so rather than criticize or judge people's >>>>>> actions, >>>>>> why don't we create an archive of ideas people have to address a >>>>>> myriad >>>>>> of >>>>>> situations. We could call each thread the How To Files, devote a >>>>>> week >>>>>> for >>>>>> people to generate ideas per thread, and whoever is managing the >>>>>> NABS >>>>>> website these days could create individual pages with a >>>>>> compilation of >>>>>> our >>>>>> responses so that people can peruse the information later. Here's my >>>>>> first >>>>>> contribution in hopes that others will follow suit: > >>>>>> How To Files - Traveling by Air > >>>>>> When traveling on an airplane, you should feel as comfortable as >>>>>> possible > >>>>>> to >>>>>> ensure an enjoyable experience. Remember these days it is >>>>>> possible to >>>>>> make >>>>>> your reservations over the Internet. If the website proves difficult >>>>>> to >>>>>> navigate, you may call the airline by phone and ask that the >>>>>> telephone >>>>>> rates >>>>>> be waived. Keep in mind that taking this route may result in your >>>>>> not >>>>>> being >>>>>> able to take advantage of online discounts, and while organizations >>>>>> like >>>>>> the >>>>>> NFB are working to ensure website accessibility, you will need to >>>>>> find >>>>>> the >>>>>> best course of action to reserve your trip there and then. If at all >>>>>> possible, try to check into your flight in advance to avoid >>>>>> having to >>>>>> stand >>>>>> in line to obtain your pass. If you have to check in luggage, you'll >>>>>> need >>>>>> to approach a counter or curb-side check-in anyway, but checking >>>>>> into >>>>>> your >>>>>> flight in advance means you'll have the opportunity to choose >>>>>> your seat >>>>>> if >>>>>> this was not done while purchasing your ticket or unless you're >>>>>> flying >>>>>> Southwest. > >>>>>> When you arrive at the airport keep in mind that most airline >>>>>> counters >>>>>> will >>>>>> be arranged in a central area. Of course you have to take into >>>>>> considerations that different airports are set up in different ways, >>>>>> but >>>>>> your transportation will usually drop you off at an entrance that is >>>>>> most >>>>>> closely located to your particular airline counter. Now all you have >>>>>> to >>>>>> do >>>>>> is find the lines that correspond with your counter. Sound >>>>>> difficult? >>>>>> Sometimes you may need to keep your ears open for people walking >>>>>> by to >>>>>> ask >>>>>> where the counter is located. Listen for heels, rolling suitcases >>>>>> and >>>>>> chattering kids who may be walking with their parents. You will be >>>>>> surprised at how willing people are willing to answer your >>>>>> questions, >>>>>> and >>>>>> who knows, if you don't ask, you may pass up someone who could be on >>>>>> your >>>>>> plane headed to the same destination. > >>>>>> After finding the correct line you may discover that staying in >>>>>> line is >>>>>> made >>>>>> easier through following the velvet ropes. Use your cane to >>>>>> gently tap >>>>>> the >>>>>> heel of the person in front of you. If you are using a guide dog, >>>>>> ask >>>>>> Cujo >>>>>> to move forward until you fill the vacant space the person ahead >>>>>> of you >>>>>> has >>>>>> left after moving forward. If you haven't tried all this before, >>>>>> you'll >>>>>> get >>>>>> the hang of it over time with a little practice. Feel free to engage >>>>>> said >>>>>> person in conversation. Chances are the person in line may be on >>>>>> your >>>>>> flight. > >>>>>> So, you've checked your bags and obtained your gate passes. While >>>>>> you're > >>>>>> at >>>>>> the counter you may request assistance to get to the gate. If you're >>>>>> running late, asking for assistance may be prudent since you >>>>>> don't want >>>>>> to >>>>>> get lost and potentially miss your flight. If you're a diligent >>>>>> traveler >>>>>> and have over an hour to kill, consider making an adventure of >>>>>> finding >>>>>> your >>>>>> gate. After all, it's much more fun to walk around exploring than it >>>>>> is >>>>>> to >>>>>> sit still for over an hour. What, you've got a book you'd rather be >>>>>> reading? Trust me, at 37,000 feet you won't be doing a whole lot of >>>>>> walking >>>>>> and will have plenty of time to catch up on what happens to your >>>>>> favorite >>>>>> characters. > >>>>>> And speaking of story plots, isn't it true that your characters >>>>>> need to >>>>>> overcome a conflict to make the story worth reading? Well, it's the >>>>>> same >>>>>> concept here. You will not fully appreciate your independence unless >>>>>> you >>>>>> learn how to fully experience the joys of getting lost. I assure you >>>>>> real >>>>>> world adventures are far more fulfilling than the ones on paper. > >>>>>> Here's the first major tip, when you're at the counter, do not >>>>>> try to >>>>>> get >>>>>> the representative to give you the whole layout of the airport. Just >>>>>> ask >>>>>> for general directions to the security checkpoint. People vary in >>>>>> their >>>>>> ability to give directions, and if you learn how to break up your >>>>>> journey >>>>>> into small pieces, you'll have greater success and will be less >>>>>> likely >>>>>> to >>>>>> get overwhelmed and frustrated. > >>>>>> Now, assuming you're still walking along by yourself, your task >>>>>> is to >>>>>> find >>>>>> the security checkpoint. With the general directions the >>>>>> representative >>>>>> gave you, you're going to start off heading in the direction they >>>>>> gave >>>>>> and >>>>>> already be on the lookout for the second person who can confirm >>>>>> these >>>>>> directions. So, obtain, then verify. As you walk keep in mind the >>>>>> sounds >>>>>> you can associate with checkpoints. You will no doubt here the >>>>>> beep of >>>>>> the >>>>>> metal detectors. Perhaps you'll hear the rattle of bags lumbering >>>>>> through >>>>>> the x-ray machines. Maybe frustrated security representatives >>>>>> admonishing >>>>>> people to take off shoes and pull out laptops? > >>>>>> Here's the next tip: Wear shoes you can easily take off. This is not >>>>>> even >>>>>> a blindness-related tip. This is just an important point for >>>>>> blind and >>>>>> sighted people alike. If you wear complicated boots, you don't >>>>>> want to >>>>>> be >>>>>> sprawled out on the floor undoing your laces while generally >>>>>> holding up >>>>>> the >>>>>> rest of the passengers. Also, prepare your computers to be taken out >>>>>> and >>>>>> put on the trays. Look at your airline's website to find out what is >>>>>> currently being allowed. Again, if the website does not work, >>>>>> pick up >>>>>> a >>>>>> phone. > >>>>>> Just before you get to the security checkpoint you're going to >>>>>> encounter >>>>>> the >>>>>> first TSA representative who will verify your pass and >>>>>> identification. >>>>>> Ask >>>>>> him or her where the nearest line is to the metal detectors. >>>>>> Remember >>>>>> when >>>>>> asking for directions to point with your finger to make sure you >>>>>> fully >>>>>> understand where they are directing you. If you're wrong, keep >>>>>> trying >>>>>> until >>>>>> you've got it right, or allow them to take your hand and point your >>>>>> finger >>>>>> in the right direction. > >>>>>> Okay, I've gotta run, but I hope others will chime in with getting >>>>>> through >>>>>> the security checkpoint and finding restrooms, restaurants and >>>>>> ultimately >>>>>> your gate. I think we can all collaborate on what to do while flying >>>>>> and >>>>>> how to properly exit the aircraft. And, please add any details you >>>>>> think >>>>>> important in the trip up to this point. I'm sure even frequent >>>>>> travelers >>>>>> may learn a thing or two. > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Joe > >>>>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>>>>> sleeves, >>>>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > >>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>>>> signature >>>>>> database 5118 (20100516) __________ > >>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>>>>> http://www.eset.com > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>> for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jj%40bestmidi.com >>>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mewhalen%40gmail.com >>>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dlawless86%40gmail.com >>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >>> > > >> ____________________________________________________________ >> Top-Ranked Online MBA's >> Your U.S. News® Guide to Online MBA's. Fully Accredited - Free Info! >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bc4faabde5380f7st06vuc > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >> > From steve.jacobson at visi.com Thu May 20 20:35:43 2010 From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 15:35:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history In-Reply-To: <4BF577CC.4000503@gmail.com> Message-ID: Josh, Anyone who sits in an exit row better take the responsibility seriously. If you think I would sit in an exit row and try to figure out how to open the door only after the crash, you don't think very much of me or other fellow blind people. Whenever I sat in an exit row, I simply asked for certain how it opened when the flight attendant came by at the beginning of the flight and asked if I new how to use the oxygen mask. It wasn't rocket science. However, I say again, nobody ever said that all blind persons should feel they should sit in an exit row. Further, while I feel I would have likely executed my responsibilities as well as the average person they would put there in my place, considering there was no real screening, that does not mean that the airlines would not have the right to say I was unfit for some other reason. This is fairly irrelevant anyway since this isn't an issue right now, but I can't believe you would truly think that a responsible blind person would not plan ahead if taking on such a responsibility. I also recall that at that time, it was common to hear flight attendants explaining to sighted persons how the exit worked. Best regards, Steve Jacobson On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:56:28 -0400, Josh wrote: >Hi >Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the >exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be >sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open that >exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can quickly >read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. >Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while >insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, >while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the sky, >or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion that >its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, that a >sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can see who >knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door open in the >quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're sitting there >trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a plane full of >pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone comes along >shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. Then you got >a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. >-- >Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com >_______________________________________________ >nabs-l mailing list >nabs-l at nfbnet.org >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com Thu May 20 21:39:39 2010 From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 17:39:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history References: Message-ID: My councilor was a former flight attendent, and she told me they hand you the instructions in braille. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history > Josh, > > Anyone who sits in an exit row better take the responsibility seriously. > If you think I would sit in an exit row and try to figure out how to open > the door only after the > crash, you don't think very much of me or other fellow blind people. > Whenever I sat in an exit row, I simply asked for certain how it opened > when the flight attendant > came by at the beginning of the flight and asked if I new how to use the > oxygen mask. It wasn't rocket science. However, I say again, nobody ever > said that all > blind persons should feel they should sit in an exit row. Further, while > I feel I would have likely executed my responsibilities as well as the > average person they would > put there in my place, considering there was no real screening, that does > not mean that the airlines would not have the right to say I was unfit for > some other reason. > This is fairly irrelevant anyway since this isn't an issue right now, but > I can't believe you would truly think that a responsible blind person > would not plan ahead if > taking on such a responsibility. I also recall that at that time, it was > common to hear flight attendants explaining to sighted persons how the > exit worked. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:56:28 -0400, Josh wrote: > >>Hi > >>Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the >>exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be >>sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open that >>exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can quickly >>read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. >>Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while >>insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, >>while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the sky, >>or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion that >>its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, that a >>sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can see who >>knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door open in the >>quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're sitting there >>trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a plane full of >>pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone comes along >>shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. Then you got >>a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. > > >>-- >>Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com From graduate56 at juno.com Thu May 20 21:40:46 2010 From: graduate56 at juno.com (Melissa Green) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 15:40:46 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> <3E874113F22546AB8E0F8E6BCE793820@melissa> Message-ID: <687F196B6FC24CEA929F603761B81088@melissa> Hi all. Here is the link to walking alone and marching together. You can download the book in Mp3 files. Go here, http://www.nfb.org/nfb/WAMT.asp HTH! Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History >I believe that this book is also an MP3 download. I got an e-mail about >this about two or three months ago. > I wonder if its still available somewhere? > > Melissa Green > No person has the right to rain on your dreams. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Fjelsted" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > >>I googled the title "Walking Alone and Marching Together!" and found >> some references including one on the NFB site that wants me to log in >> with a username and password. THe book appears to be purchasable from >> Amazon. Is this book available in an accessible format preferabley >> Braille? >> I would love to read it. >> -Kevin >> >> On 5/18/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are >>> realizing >>> how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an >>> exit >>> row. One thing I >>> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we >>> were >>> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that >>> would >>> have not >>> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been >>> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would >>> have >>> excluded us from >>> quite a number of seats on some planes. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>>>can't have given a better suggestion! >>> >>>>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>>>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>>>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>>>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>>>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>>>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>>>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>>>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>>>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>>>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>>>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>>>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>>>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>>>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>>>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>>>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>>>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>>>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>>>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>>>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>>>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>>>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>>>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>>>sighted persons I know. >>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Jedi >>> >>> >>>>Original message: >>>>> Hello Peter, >>> >>>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent >>>>> example >>>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >>> >>>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >>> >>>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >>> >>>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case >>>>> of >>>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >>> >>> >>>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>>>> Hello Briley and everyone, >>> >>>>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>>>> equal >>>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>>>> kind >>>>>> of >>>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, >>>>>> and >>>>>> much >>>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by >>>>>> airline >>>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>>>> bulkhead >>>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>>>> post-board, >>>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the >>>>>> late >>>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of >>>>>> discrimination >>>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>>>> guard >>>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested >>>>>> and >>>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing >>>>>> more >>>>>> than >>>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >>> >>>>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>>>> several >>>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency >>>>>> exit >>>>>> row; >>>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several >>>>>> protest >>>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>>>> in >>>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>>>> the >>>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>>>> activities. >>>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a >>>>>> thing >>>>>> or >>>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>>>> often. >>>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, >>>>>> "Sitting >>>>>> down >>>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these >>>>>> struggles >>>>>> and >>>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These >>>>>> nabsters >>>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they >>>>>> are. >>>>>> All >>>>>> the best. >>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for >>>>>> forgetting >>>>>> blindteen >>> >>> >>>>>> Valory, >>> >>>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>>>> was >>>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>>>> What >>>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>>>> Media >>>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it >>>>>> does >>>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>>>> acceptable. >>> >>>>>> Briley >>> >>> >>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and >>>>>>> become >>>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> >>>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>>>> judgement >>>>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>>>> unfair >>>>>>> to point fingers. >>> >>>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>>>> needs >>>>>>> sighted help in everything. >>> >>>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> >>>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> >>>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> >>>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>> >>>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>> quickly. >>> >>>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked >>>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes I don't. >>> >>>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>> >>>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they >>>>>>>> must >>>>>>>> cope. >>> >>>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise >>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>> due >>>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>> >>> >>>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>>>> story. >>> >>>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>>>> Island >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>>>> check of the plane. >>> >>>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline >>>>>>>>> voucher >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>>>> news >>>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>> sorry." >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> >>>>-- >>>>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin Fjelsted >> B Harris, Inc. >> http://www.bharrisinc.com >> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted >> Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 >> Direct: 612.424.7332 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Penny Stock Jumping 2000% > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bdd0b66325d709fst05vuc > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.com > From pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net Thu May 20 21:56:47 2010 From: pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net (Peter Donahue) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:56:47 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history References: <4BF577CC.4000503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <005e01caf867$591b1ef0$4001a8c0@yourfsyly0jtwn> Hello Josh and everyone, Not all sighted people could open those exit row doors either. All the instructions in the World will be of used if a blind or sighted passenger seated in that row cannot open the door. Personally I'd like to see aircraft cabins designed so all exits are free of passengers killing this whole issue. There are blind people capable of performing this task successfully. Read about one such incident in Walking Alone and Marching Together. Fortunately this will be a non-issue for us when we fly to Dallas in July. Peter Donahue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh" To: "nabs-l list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:56 PM Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history Hi Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open that exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can quickly read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the sky, or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion that its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, that a sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can see who knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door open in the quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're sitting there trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a plane full of pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone comes along shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. Then you got a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Thu May 20 23:58:21 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 18:58:21 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32981DDE0289420DA618979DE2A7A3CB@RainaIsmailPC> Wow that's interesting! They only do that if you are flying alone? Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of RJ Sandefur Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 4:40 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history My councilor was a former flight attendent, and she told me they hand you the instructions in braille. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history > Josh, > > Anyone who sits in an exit row better take the responsibility seriously. > If you think I would sit in an exit row and try to figure out how to > open the door only after the crash, you don't think very much of me or > other fellow blind people. > Whenever I sat in an exit row, I simply asked for certain how it > opened when the flight attendant came by at the beginning of the > flight and asked if I new how to use the oxygen mask. It wasn't > rocket science. However, I say again, nobody ever said that all blind > persons should feel they should sit in an exit row. Further, while I > feel I would have likely executed my responsibilities as well as the > average person they would put there in my place, considering there was > no real screening, that does not mean that the airlines would not have > the right to say I was unfit for some other reason. > This is fairly irrelevant anyway since this isn't an issue right now, > but I can't believe you would truly think that a responsible blind > person would not plan ahead if taking on such a responsibility. I > also recall that at that time, it was common to hear flight attendants > explaining to sighted persons how the exit worked. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Thu, 20 May 2010 13:56:28 -0400, Josh wrote: > >>Hi > >>Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the >>exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be >>sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open >>that exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can >>quickly read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. >>Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while >>insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, >>while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the >>sky, or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion >>that its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, >>that a sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can >>see who knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door >>open in the quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're >>sitting there trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a >>plane full of pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone >>comes along shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. >>Then you got a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. > > >>-- >>Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson >>%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksan > defur%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2886 - Release Date: 05/20/10 13:26:00 From jorgeapaez at mac.com Thu May 20 23:10:00 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 19:10:00 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Logic Studio Express Help Message-ID: <4772E3D6-5A0B-4BAF-B8BF-94D9AE330A0E@mac.com> Hello all. Just wondering if any of you had any tips on using Logic Express, (the latest version) for editing/mixing music. I can record all right, but the edit/mix panels have been unaccessible. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Jorge From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Thu May 20 23:14:44 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 19:14:44 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi: A couple of other good sites are www.wordpress.com Another good one is (this is through google so you could just use your gmail account if you already have one) www.blogspot.com. Whatever site you go with you can certainly upload audio, video, and pictures. As far as I know, there is no limit to how long a post can be. As someone else said you can have multiple blogs on Livejournal. I don't actually know if you can have multiple blogs on Blogspot and Wordpress but I imagine you can! Hope this helps! Kerri On 5/20/10, Courtney Stover wrote: > Ashley, > > www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very > accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which > makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an > excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command > interface. > > Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using > the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal > would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to > content featured on one in the other. > > If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me > privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll > be more than happy to help. > Courtney > > On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >> this. >> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >> as >> training center experiences. >> >> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for two >> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I >> go >> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and reflect >> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write >> my >> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >> >> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >> entry? >> >> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my >> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >> looking >> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >> also >> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From ccook01 at knology.net Thu May 20 23:52:23 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 19:52:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> Message-ID: You can have multiple blogs on blogspot. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kerri Kosten Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:15 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog Hi: A couple of other good sites are www.wordpress.com Another good one is (this is through google so you could just use your gmail account if you already have one) www.blogspot.com. Whatever site you go with you can certainly upload audio, video, and pictures. As far as I know, there is no limit to how long a post can be. As someone else said you can have multiple blogs on Livejournal. I don't actually know if you can have multiple blogs on Blogspot and Wordpress but I imagine you can! Hope this helps! Kerri On 5/20/10, Courtney Stover wrote: > Ashley, > > www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very > accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which > makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an > excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command > interface. > > Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using > the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal > would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to > content featured on one in the other. > > If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me > privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll > be more than happy to help. > Courtney > > On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >> this. >> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >> as >> training center experiences. >> >> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for two >> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I >> go >> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and reflect >> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write >> my >> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >> >> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >> entry? >> >> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my >> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >> looking >> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >> also >> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From ccook01 at knology.net Fri May 21 00:26:50 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:26:50 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <687F196B6FC24CEA929F603761B81088@melissa> References: <20100518052446.7090.13325@web2> <3E874113F22546AB8E0F8E6BCE793820@melissa> <687F196B6FC24CEA929F603761B81088@melissa> Message-ID: thanks Melissa for posting this link. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Melissa Green Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 5:41 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History Hi all. Here is the link to walking alone and marching together. You can download the book in Mp3 files. Go here, http://www.nfb.org/nfb/WAMT.asp HTH! Melissa Green No person has the right to rain on your dreams. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Green" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History >I believe that this book is also an MP3 download. I got an e-mail about >this about two or three months ago. > I wonder if its still available somewhere? > > Melissa Green > No person has the right to rain on your dreams. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Fjelsted" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > >>I googled the title "Walking Alone and Marching Together!" and found >> some references including one on the NFB site that wants me to log in >> with a username and password. THe book appears to be purchasable from >> Amazon. Is this book available in an accessible format preferabley >> Braille? >> I would love to read it. >> -Kevin >> >> On 5/18/10, Steve Jacobson wrote: >>> You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are >>> realizing >>> how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit in an >>> exit >>> row. One thing I >>> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we >>> were >>> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that >>> would >>> have not >>> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been >>> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would >>> have >>> excluded us from >>> quite a number of seats on some planes. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Steve Jacobson >>> >>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: >>> >>>>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>>>can't have given a better suggestion! >>> >>>>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>>>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>>>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>>>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>>>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>>>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>>>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>>>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>>>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>>>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>>>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>>>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>>>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>>>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>>>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>>>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>>>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>>>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>>>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>>>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>>>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>>>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>>>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>>>sighted persons I know. >>> >>>>Respectfully, >>>>Jedi >>> >>> >>>>Original message: >>>>> Hello Peter, >>> >>>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent >>>>> example >>>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >>> >>>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >>> >>>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >>> >>>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case >>>>> of >>>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >>> >>> >>>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>>>> Hello Briley and everyone, >>> >>>>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>>>> equal >>>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>>>> kind >>>>>> of >>>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, >>>>>> and >>>>>> much >>>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by >>>>>> airline >>>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>>>> bulkhead >>>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>>>> post-board, >>>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the >>>>>> late >>>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of >>>>>> discrimination >>>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>>>> guard >>>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested >>>>>> and >>>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing >>>>>> more >>>>>> than >>>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >>> >>>>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>>>> several >>>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency >>>>>> exit >>>>>> row; >>>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several >>>>>> protest >>>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>>>> in >>>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>>>> the >>>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>>>> activities. >>>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a >>>>>> thing >>>>>> or >>>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>>>> often. >>>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, >>>>>> "Sitting >>>>>> down >>>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these >>>>>> struggles >>>>>> and >>>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These >>>>>> nabsters >>>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they >>>>>> are. >>>>>> All >>>>>> the best. >>> >>>>>> Peter Donahue >>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for >>>>>> forgetting >>>>>> blindteen >>> >>> >>>>>> Valory, >>> >>>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>>>> was >>>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>>>> What >>>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>>>> Media >>>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it >>>>>> does >>>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>>>> acceptable. >>> >>>>>> Briley >>> >>> >>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and >>>>>>> become >>>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>> >>>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>>>> judgement >>>>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and >>>>>>> while >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>>>> unfair >>>>>>> to point fingers. >>> >>>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>>>> needs >>>>>>> sighted help in everything. >>> >>>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>> >>>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>> >>>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>> >>>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>> >>>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>> quickly. >>> >>>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked >>>>>>>> that I >>>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes I don't. >>> >>>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>> >>>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they >>>>>>>> must >>>>>>>> cope. >>> >>>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise >>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>> due >>>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>> >>> >>>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>>>> story. >>> >>>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>> >>>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>> >>>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>>>> Island >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>> >>>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after >>>>>>>>> she >>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>> >>>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>>>> check of the plane. >>> >>>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>> >>>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline >>>>>>>>> voucher >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>>>> news >>>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>> >>>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>> sorry." >>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com >>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail. com >>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcgloba l.net >>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40g mail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samo bile.net >>> >>>>-- >>>>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>nabs-l mailing list >>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%4 0visi.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kfjelsted%40gmail.co m >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin Fjelsted >> B Harris, Inc. >> http://www.bharrisinc.com >> kevin.fjelsted at bharrisinc.com >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinfjelsted >> Phone: 612.424.7333 EX. 301 >> Direct: 612.424.7332 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co m >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > Penny Stock Jumping 2000% > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4bf4bdd0b66325d709fst05vuc > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/graduate56%40juno.co m > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Fri May 21 03:36:19 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 23:36:19 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history Message-ID: <20100521033619.23478.76706@web3> Josh, Perhaps. However, in Walking Alone and Marching Together, Dr. Jernigan speaks of a test run they did where blind folks were in charge of opening emergency exit doors. They videotaped the whole thing and timed it; they found that the blind folks were as efficient as the sighted ones are expected to be. The reviewers of the tape did notice a slow down, but it was because flight attendents (trying to help of course) got in the way of the blind people's progress. Exit doors are going to be fairly consistent. If folks are worried about it, this kind of thing (opening the exit doors) could become part of our blindness training or part of some NFB workshop put on at a convention or something. Respectfully, Jedi PS. The sighted folks opening the door may be at a disadvantage since, often, a cabin will be dark and they'll be too stressed out to sit and read the directions. Since that's normal for us, we actually have the advantage. Original message: > Hi > Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the > exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be > sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open that > exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can quickly > read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. > Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while > insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, > while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the sky, > or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion that > its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, that a > sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can see who > knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door open in the > quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're sitting there > trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a plane full of > pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone comes along > shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. Then you got > a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Fri May 21 11:17:25 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 06:17:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history In-Reply-To: <20100521033619.23478.76706@web3> References: <20100521033619.23478.76706@web3> Message-ID: <6F95E699343D4413B4193A9DDCAB8D1C@RainaIsmailPC> I like that idea! Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jedi Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:36 PM To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org Subject: Re: [nabs-l] airlines and federation history Josh, Perhaps. However, in Walking Alone and Marching Together, Dr. Jernigan speaks of a test run they did where blind folks were in charge of opening emergency exit doors. They videotaped the whole thing and timed it; they found that the blind folks were as efficient as the sighted ones are expected to be. The reviewers of the tape did notice a slow down, but it was because flight attendents (trying to help of course) got in the way of the blind people's progress. Exit doors are going to be fairly consistent. If folks are worried about it, this kind of thing (opening the exit doors) could become part of our blindness training or part of some NFB workshop put on at a convention or something. Respectfully, Jedi PS. The sighted folks opening the door may be at a disadvantage since, often, a cabin will be dark and they'll be too stressed out to sit and read the directions. Since that's normal for us, we actually have the advantage. Original message: > Hi > Here's my thoughts on the whole exit row thing. If I'm sitting in the > exit row and the plane crashes or begins to crash; I don't want to be > sitting there trying to figure out the several steps needed to open > that exit row door. I'd rather have a sighted person there, who can > quickly read the directions and get that door open as quickly as possible. > Rather than me sitting there fiddling around with it all the while > insisting oh just hang on a moment I'll get it open, all the while, > while I'm fiddling with the doorr, the plane is falling out of the > sky, or sinking down into the river. There's some things in my opinion > that its just more efficient and in case of an emergency, life-savin, > that a sighted person well that I'd say, hey just let someone who can > see who knows what they're doing, sit there so they can get the door > open in the quickest time possible. the other thing is while you're > sitting there trying to fiddle around getting the door open you got a > plane full of pannicking people that want out of the plane, so someone > comes along shoves you out of the way, gets to the door and opens it. > Then you got a bunch of pissed off people at ya because you didn't move right away. > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi% > 40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2886 - Release Date: 05/20/10 13:26:00 From gera1027 at gmail.com Fri May 21 17:09:34 2010 From: gera1027 at gmail.com (Gerardo Corripio) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 12:09:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Blogging: A sample References: Message-ID: <00ba01caf908$642ac6a0$0e92910a@final8nt83doe1> Yes; that's the beauty of blogs that you can write and peple who read your entries can comment on them. and yes I also use Wordpress for my bllog which I need to update! it's in Spanish so that's why I don't give out the blog site. Gerardo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" To: "Robert Jaquiss" ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blogging: A sample Hi Robert, Thanks for sharing. It was an interesting read. It was written in a personable style. I noticed there was a comment or two after it. I wonder if that is normal. Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Jaquiss" To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:09 AM Subject: [nabs-l] Blogging: A sample > WordPress.comHello: > > Here is a sample blog done by a blind lady who is getting a guide dog. > This site would seem to be accessible. > > Regards, > > Robert Jaquiss > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sylvia's Guide Dog Tale > To: rjaquiss at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 8:31 AM > Subject: [New post] Guide dog journey > > > Guide dog journey > Sylvia | May 20, 2010 at 9:31 am | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: > http://wp.me/pPVh1-1P > > 5/20/10 How do you pack for 26 days! I’ve been working on getting myself > packed in my spare time this week. How in the world do you pack for a 26 > day trip away from home-you get a steamer trunk. The hilarious thing is > that Seeing Eye suggested we bring only one bag and actually [...] > > Read more of this post > > Add a comment to this post > > > WordPress.com | Thanks for flying with WordPress! > Manage Subscriptions | One-click Unsubscribe | Publish text, photos, > music, and videos by email using our Post by Email feature. > > > Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: > http://subscribe.wordpress.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gera1027%40gmail.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri May 21 18:03:07 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 12:03:07 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Ray McGeorge Update Message-ID: <516D3E876ECF427DA18372FDCB2A2E6F@labarre> Greetings: Ray McGeorge went into the hospital on May 9th and was diagnosed with bacterial meningitis. Diane rushed Ray via 911 to Rose hospital here in Denver because he was not waking up on that Sunday morning. Ray has not been conscious since that time and has suffered a number of serious set-backs including a significant stroke. Since earlier this week, Ray has been stable but has not showed any signs of improvement and he remains on a respirator. We need your continued thoughts and prayers. Diane again asked me to express her deeply heart felt gratitude for all the support you have given. I will send out further updates when warranted. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From tinadt at sbcglobal.net Fri May 21 19:32:18 2010 From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (tina thomas ) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 12:32:18 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] Ray McGeorge Update In-Reply-To: <516D3E876ECF427DA18372FDCB2A2E6F@labarre> Message-ID: <507706.18317.qm@smtp103.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Scott- Thanks for the updates on Ray. Please send him and my best wishes for a speedy recovery and my prayers. Tina "Trust your own instinct. Your mistakes might as well be your own instead of someone else's." - Billy Wilder -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:03 AM To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; National Association of Blind Students mailing list; NFB Affiliate Presidents List Subject: [nabs-l] Ray McGeorge Update Greetings: Ray McGeorge went into the hospital on May 9th and was diagnosed with bacterial meningitis. Diane rushed Ray via 911 to Rose hospital here in Denver because he was not waking up on that Sunday morning. Ray has not been conscious since that time and has suffered a number of serious set-backs including a significant stroke. Since earlier this week, Ray has been stable but has not showed any signs of improvement and he remains on a respirator. We need your continued thoughts and prayers. Diane again asked me to express her deeply heart felt gratitude for all the support you have given. I will send out further updates when warranted. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal.n et No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2887 - Release Date: 05/20/10 23:26:00 From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 22 03:15:38 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 23:15:38 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> Message-ID: <2ADE92E174D048A38D7F3233B9F2DF1F@Ashley> Hi Courtney, Thanks. Does the site walk you through setting it up? How often do you typically add to a blog? I can do it daily now but if I get busier it may only be a few times a week. What format are most blogs? Like journals? The guide dog sample Robert posted read like an entertaining journal explaining how that lady was preparing for guide dog school. I might use this site to begin with. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Courtney Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog > Ashley, > > www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very > accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which > makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an > excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command > interface. > > Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using > the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal > would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to > content featured on one in the other. > > If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me > privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll > be more than happy to help. > Courtney > > On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >> this. >> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >> as >> training center experiences. >> >> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for >> two >> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I >> go >> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and >> reflect >> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write >> my >> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >> >> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >> entry? >> >> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my >> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >> looking >> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >> also >> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From bookwormahb at earthlink.net Sat May 22 03:20:42 2010 From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 23:20:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> Message-ID: <0BE4D15C09B04444AB7B2FB4000DAED3@Ashley> Hi Kerri, Have you used both of these? Are they fully accessible? If you blog, what format do you use? A first person journaling style? How do you all promote your blog? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog > Hi: > > A couple of other good sites are > www.wordpress.com > > Another good one is (this is through google so you could just use your > gmail account if you already have one) > > www.blogspot.com. > > Whatever site you go with you can certainly upload audio, video, and > pictures. > As far as I know, there is no limit to how long a post can be. > > As someone else said you can have multiple blogs on Livejournal. I > don't actually know if you can have multiple blogs on Blogspot and > Wordpress but I imagine you can! > > Hope this helps! > Kerri > > On 5/20/10, Courtney Stover wrote: >> Ashley, >> >> www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very >> accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which >> makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an >> excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command >> interface. >> >> Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using >> the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal >> would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to >> content featured on one in the other. >> >> If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me >> privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll >> be more than happy to help. >> Courtney >> >> On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >>> this. >>> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >>> as >>> training center experiences. >>> >>> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for >>> two >>> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if >>> I >>> go >>> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >>> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and >>> reflect >>> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >>> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to >>> write >>> my >>> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >>> >>> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >>> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >>> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >>> entry? >>> >>> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow >>> my >>> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >>> looking >>> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >>> also >>> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net > From ccook01 at knology.net Sat May 22 04:44:21 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 00:44:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: <2ADE92E174D048A38D7F3233B9F2DF1F@Ashley> References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> <2ADE92E174D048A38D7F3233B9F2DF1F@Ashley> Message-ID: Ashley, It really depends on how often you want to update. I have a blog I update now and then, and some people update daily or weekly. Just depends on what you have to say. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:16 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog Hi Courtney, Thanks. Does the site walk you through setting it up? How often do you typically add to a blog? I can do it daily now but if I get busier it may only be a few times a week. What format are most blogs? Like journals? The guide dog sample Robert posted read like an entertaining journal explaining how that lady was preparing for guide dog school. I might use this site to begin with. Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Courtney Stover" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog > Ashley, > > www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very > accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which > makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an > excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command > interface. > > Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using > the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal > would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to > content featured on one in the other. > > If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me > privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll > be more than happy to help. > Courtney > > On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >> this. >> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >> as >> training center experiences. >> >> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for >> two >> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I >> go >> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and >> reflect >> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write >> my >> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >> >> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >> entry? >> >> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my >> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >> looking >> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >> also >> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Ashley >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From ccook01 at knology.net Sat May 22 04:47:14 2010 From: ccook01 at knology.net (Corey Cook) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 00:47:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: <0BE4D15C09B04444AB7B2FB4000DAED3@Ashley> References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> <0BE4D15C09B04444AB7B2FB4000DAED3@Ashley> Message-ID: You can put it as a link on fb, put a link in your email signature, And write how you want, Be it first person essay like, or research paper like. It is your blog. Corey Cook Email ccook01 at knology.net Facebook ccook01 at knology.net Skype coreym821 -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:21 PM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog Hi Kerri, Have you used both of these? Are they fully accessible? If you blog, what format do you use? A first person journaling style? How do you all promote your blog? Ashley ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kerri Kosten" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog > Hi: > > A couple of other good sites are > www.wordpress.com > > Another good one is (this is through google so you could just use your > gmail account if you already have one) > > www.blogspot.com. > > Whatever site you go with you can certainly upload audio, video, and > pictures. > As far as I know, there is no limit to how long a post can be. > > As someone else said you can have multiple blogs on Livejournal. I > don't actually know if you can have multiple blogs on Blogspot and > Wordpress but I imagine you can! > > Hope this helps! > Kerri > > On 5/20/10, Courtney Stover wrote: >> Ashley, >> >> www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very >> accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which >> makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an >> excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command >> interface. >> >> Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using >> the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal >> would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to >> content featured on one in the other. >> >> If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me >> privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll >> be more than happy to help. >> Courtney >> >> On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >>> this. >>> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >>> as >>> training center experiences. >>> >>> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for >>> two >>> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if >>> I >>> go >>> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >>> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and >>> reflect >>> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >>> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to >>> write >>> my >>> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >>> >>> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >>> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >>> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >>> entry? >>> >>> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow >>> my >>> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >>> looking >>> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >>> also >>> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.c om >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl ink.net > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne t From kerrik2006 at gmail.com Sat May 22 05:28:45 2010 From: kerrik2006 at gmail.com (Kerri Kosten) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 01:28:45 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> <2ADE92E174D048A38D7F3233B9F2DF1F@Ashley> Message-ID: Hi: It's all up to you...it's your blog. You can write in whatever style you want and update as often or as little as you want. Yes, both of the sites are accessible. Hope this helps! Kerri On 5/22/10, Corey Cook wrote: > Ashley, > It really depends on how often you want to update. > I have a blog I update now and then, and some people update daily or weekly. > Just depends on what you have to say. > > > Corey Cook > Email > ccook01 at knology.net > Facebook > ccook01 at knology.net > Skype > coreym821 > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf > Of Ashley Bramlett > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:16 PM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog > > Hi Courtney, > Thanks. Does the site walk you through setting it up? > How often do you typically add to a blog? I can do it daily now but if I > get busier it may only be a few times a week. > > What format are most blogs? Like journals? The guide dog sample Robert > posted read like an entertaining journal explaining how that lady was > preparing for guide dog school. > > I might use this site to begin with. Thanks. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Courtney Stover" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:48 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog > > >> Ashley, >> >> www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very >> accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which >> makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an >> excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command >> interface. >> >> Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using >> the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal >> would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to >> content featured on one in the other. >> >> If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me >> privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll >> be more than happy to help. >> Courtney >> >> On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >>> this. >>> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >>> as >>> training center experiences. >>> >>> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for >>> two >>> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if I > >>> go >>> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >>> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and >>> reflect >>> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >>> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to write > >>> my >>> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >>> >>> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >>> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >>> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >>> entry? >>> >>> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow my >>> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >>> looking >>> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >>> also >>> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Ashley >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. > com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl > ink.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne > t > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com > From liamskitten at gmail.com Sat May 22 09:32:25 2010 From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 04:32:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] how to blog In-Reply-To: References: <1DE8CBEF92CE4A06B112D16BD9EA37FB@Ashley> <2ADE92E174D048A38D7F3233B9F2DF1F@Ashley> Message-ID: Ashley, LJ will walk you through the initial process of setting everything up in terms of your account. After you get your account set up, the FAQ will give incredibly specific instructions about how to post an entry, the settings and what they mean.. etc. etc. One tip I'll give you right off the bat is that if your posts are going to be extremely long, the first thing you'll want to do is learn to make what's called an LJ cut. It's essentially like the read more links on other blogging sites. When people friend you, which is essentially like following on twitter, your entries will appear on their "friends" page. An LJ cut just lets you not clutter the page. Hope all this helps, and if you have more questions, feel free to E-mail me privately. Courtney On 5/22/10, Kerri Kosten wrote: > Hi: > > It's all up to you...it's your blog. > > You can write in whatever style you want and update as often or as > little as you want. > > Yes, both of the sites are accessible. > > Hope this helps! > > Kerri > > On 5/22/10, Corey Cook wrote: >> Ashley, >> It really depends on how often you want to update. >> I have a blog I update now and then, and some people update daily or >> weekly. >> Just depends on what you have to say. >> >> >> Corey Cook >> Email >> ccook01 at knology.net >> Facebook >> ccook01 at knology.net >> Skype >> coreym821 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On >> Behalf >> Of Ashley Bramlett >> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:16 PM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog >> >> Hi Courtney, >> Thanks. Does the site walk you through setting it up? >> How often do you typically add to a blog? I can do it daily now but if I >> get busier it may only be a few times a week. >> >> What format are most blogs? Like journals? The guide dog sample Robert >> posted read like an entertaining journal explaining how that lady was >> preparing for guide dog school. >> >> I might use this site to begin with. Thanks. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Courtney Stover" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] how to blog >> >> >>> Ashley, >>> >>> www.livejournal.com is an excellent blogging site. It is very >>> accessible. Much of its formatting is done through HTML codes, which >>> makes it perfect for blind people. The FAQ on the site provides an >>> excellent overview of what it can do, as well as the command >>> interface. >>> >>> Also, it is worth noting that you can create multiple accounts using >>> the same E-mail address. This means that both the informal and formal >>> would be on the same server, and it would be very easy to link to >>> content featured on one in the other. >>> >>> If you do use LJ and need any assistance, feel free to E-mail me >>> privately at liamskitten at gmail.com or cstover165 at gmail.com, and I'll >>> be more than happy to help. >>> Courtney >>> >>> On 5/20/10, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> A bit off topic, but I know this tech involved group would know about >>>> this. >>>> Some of you might have blogs about experiences related to blindness such >>>> as >>>> training center experiences. >>>> >>>> Anyway, I am interested in writing a blog. Actually I'd write two for >>>> two >>>> purposes. One will be a more informal journal about my progress and if >>>> I >> >>>> go >>>> back to school, I'll tell about that. Another one I'd like to write >>>> articles about things I'm interested in to showcase my writing and >>>> reflect >>>> on things. I don't know what that will be yet. I might write about >>>> volunteering if I begin to do that regularly. I also may decide to >>>> write >> >>>> my >>>> opinions of books I read or plays or concerts I attend. >>>> >>>> What are good sites for blogs? I have not done this before. Whatformat? >>>> Will they give me a template? Can I upload audio clips from a digital >>>> recorder to them? Is there a maximum amount of space allowed per blog >>>> entry? >>>> >>>> Any advice you have would be great. I think this will be a way toshow >>>> my >>>> writing style, share my opinions, and reflect some on my part. I am >>>> looking >>>> for work and I have some time to further practice my writing skills. I >>>> also >>>> think a blog will let anyone know more about me. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Ashley >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail. >> com >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthl >> ink.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ccook01%40knology.ne >> t >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kerrik2006%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/liamskitten%40gmail.com > From jfetter at nd.edu Mon May 24 00:33:25 2010 From: jfetter at nd.edu (James Fetter) Date: Sun, 23 May 2010 20:33:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Blind Students Interested in Academic Careers Message-ID: <4BF9C955.2040906@nd.edu> Dear All, I hope all of your semesters and final exams, whether you took or had to grade them, went well. I am in the beginning stages of organizing a group of blind academics and aspiring academics i.e. graduate students seeking academic careers, such as myself. By way of a brief introduction, I am a graduate student near completion of my Ph.D. in Political Science at Notre Dame and am currently on the job market. I envision this group starting out as a talk shop for trading ideas about seeking academic employment, publishing, getting access to secondary sources and other research materials, and all the other aspects of starting/advancing a career in the academy with special attention to any specific challenges or misconceptions we face as blind academics. If interested, please feel free to contact me off list at jfetter at nd.edu. If there is sufficient interest, I plan to arrange an informal get-together at Convention. I posted a similar message to the Blind Educators mailing list, so if you received that, my apologies for the double notification. All Best, James -- James Fetter University of Notre Dame Department of Political Science 217 O'Shaughnessy Notre Dame, IN 46556 574-323-4891 jfetter at nd.edu From aec732 at msn.com Mon May 24 05:34:24 2010 From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 00:34:24 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! Message-ID: SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! Are you an enthusiastic tandem rider? Or maybe tandeming is something you've wanted to try but haven't had the opportunity The Dallas Area Tandem Enthusiasists are offering captains and tandem bikes to the first 15 NFB conventioneers who sign up for the ride on Saturday, July 3 at 3 p.m. Please note this time is earlier than previous rides with DATE, the Dallas Area Tandem Enthusiasts who are once again generously providing us w3ith bikes and captains as well as helmets for those who need them. The cost will be $25 cash and includes round-trip transportation to a bike trail at scenic and safe White Rock Lake. We also may be able to have dinner at a nearby restaurant though the DATE captains are not available to join us this year. Participants must first register with Annemarie Cooke, aec732 at gmail.com, phone 732-247-2038 NO LATER THAN JUNE 1, 2010. You'll receive a liability waiver to complete and you need to bring it with you on the day of the ride. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5139 (20100523) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 24 06:59:55 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi Moerke) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 06:59:55 -0000 Subject: [nabs-l] SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8089780.6222.1274684389029.JavaMail.IP-0AC03BCF$@ip-0AC03BCF> Your email was read to me using Voice on the Go. Try it free for 30 days www.voiceonthego.com/30daysfree > Original Message: > --------------------------------- > > From: Annemarie Cooke > Sent: May 24, 2010 1:34:24 AM > To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org > Subject: [nabs-l] SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! > > > SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! > > Are you an enthusiastic tandem rider? Or maybe tandeming is something > you've wanted to try but haven't had the opportunity The Dallas Area > Tandem Enthusiasists are offering captains and tandem bikes to the > first 15 NFB conventioneers who sign up for the ride on Saturday, > July 3 at 3 p.m. Please note this time is earlier than previous rides > with DATE, the Dallas Area Tandem Enthusiasts who are once again > generously providing us w3ith bikes and captains as well as helmets > for those who need them. > > The cost will be $25 cash and includes round-trip transportation to a > bike trail at scenic and safe White Rock Lake. We also may be able > to have dinner at a nearby restaurant though the DATE captains are > not available to join us this year. > > Participants must first register with Annemarie Cooke, > aec732 at gmail.com, phone 732-247-2038 NO > LATER THAN JUNE 1, 2010. You'll receive a liability waiver to > complete and you need to bring it with you on the day of the ride. > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 5139 (20100523) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Mon May 24 08:52:04 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 04:52:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! Message-ID: <20100524085204.19341.6346@web3> Wow, that's annoying. I'm sorry for the shameless advertisement of Voice on the Go. Voice on the Go is a service that allows one to read, write, and respond to e-mails over the phone, update Facebook and Twitter status, input and call contacts via voice, and keep a calendar all over the telephone. I decided to try the service to see if it couldn't be a viable solution for newly blind people who are not tech savvy and don't wish to be such as many of the blind seniors I've met. So far, the service is interesting and I'd recommend it to anyone who's in need of an option like this for a cheap price. Unfortunately, the side affect seems to be that, every time I read an e-mail on the service, the e-mail's sender gets a message saying I've read their note via this service. That's good to know and highly annoying. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Your email was read to me using Voice on the Go. > Try it free for 30 days www.voiceonthego.com/30daysfree >> Original Message: >> --------------------------------- >> From: Annemarie Cooke >> Sent: May 24, 2010 1:34:24 AM >> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org >> Subject: [nabs-l] SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE >> 2010 CONVENTION! >> SPACE STILL IS AVAILABLE FOR TANDEM BIKING AT THE 2010 CONVENTION! >> Are you an enthusiastic tandem rider? Or maybe tandeming is something >> you've wanted to try but haven't had the opportunity The Dallas Area >> Tandem Enthusiasists are offering captains and tandem bikes to the >> first 15 NFB conventioneers who sign up for the ride on Saturday, >> July 3 at 3 p.m. Please note this time is earlier than previous rides >> with DATE, the Dallas Area Tandem Enthusiasts who are once again >> generously providing us w3ith bikes and captains as well as helmets >> for those who need them. >> The cost will be $25 cash and includes round-trip transportation to a >> bike trail at scenic and safe White Rock Lake. We also may be able >> to have dinner at a nearby restaurant though the DATE captains are >> not available to join us this year. >> Participants must first register with Annemarie Cooke, >> aec732 at gmail.com, phone 732-247-2038 NO >> LATER THAN JUNE 1, 2010. You'll receive a liability waiver to >> complete and you need to bring it with you on the day of the ride. >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 5139 (20100523) __________ >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> http://www.eset.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From brileyp at gmail.com Mon May 24 14:49:34 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 09:49:34 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] SyncBraille 32 $1500 Message-ID: <2B89755B-AFAD-4BB0-B46A-5062E358B551@gmail.com> Hey all, No worries, I will not spam everyone with technology I'm trying to unload. But I'm in a bit of a tight spot, so am willing to let this display go for $1500. It is worth a lot more than that, and is in 100 percent as new condition. But I know it is hard times for everyone, and I need to get it off of my hands. If you're interested, please EMail me off list at brileyp at gmail.com Also, please pass along this info to anyone who may be interested. I'm also trying to sell a Juliet Pro 60 embosser, and a GWMicro Voice Sense. Thank you, Briley From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Mon May 24 15:49:32 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 09:49:32 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: Greetings: I recently got off the phone with Diane to check on Ray's status as of this morning. Some time no news is good news and that is the case today. Ray remains stable and unconscious in the normal sense. The encouraging bit of news is that over the last couple of days, Ray has demonstrated more awareness and has definitely let us know that he is still with us. When I saw him Saturday, he squeezed my hand when I asked and he also wiggled his big toe when I asked. Yesterday, he was even a little more active and moving his left arm and leg, the non-stroke affected side. Dr. and Mrs. Maurer visited with Ray yesterday and he gripped their hands as well. There is no doubt in any of our mind sthat Ray is still with us and fighting very hard. He faces significant odds because of the multitude of issues he has faced, the most substantial of which is the major stroke he suffered last week. As all of you know, Ray is an extremely tough person and he is giving it everything he's got. We appreciate so much your continued thoughts and prayers and please keep them coming! I plan to visit Ray this afternoon and I will post an update later today. With warmest regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From raniaismail04 at gmail.com Mon May 24 18:11:25 2010 From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania ) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 13:11:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good news! Rania, -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 10:50 AM To: NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB of Colorado Discussion List; National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Greetings: I recently got off the phone with Diane to check on Ray's status as of this morning. Some time no news is good news and that is the case today. Ray remains stable and unconscious in the normal sense. The encouraging bit of news is that over the last couple of days, Ray has demonstrated more awareness and has definitely let us know that he is still with us. When I saw him Saturday, he squeezed my hand when I asked and he also wiggled his big toe when I asked. Yesterday, he was even a little more active and moving his left arm and leg, the non-stroke affected side. Dr. and Mrs. Maurer visited with Ray yesterday and he gripped their hands as well. There is no doubt in any of our mind sthat Ray is still with us and fighting very hard. He faces significant odds because of the multitude of issues he has faced, the most substantial of which is the major stroke he suffered last week. As all of you know, Ray is an extremely tough person and he is giving it everything he's got. We appreciate so much your continued thoughts and prayers and please keep them coming! I plan to visit Ray this afternoon and I will post an update later today. With warmest regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmai l.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2893 - Release Date: 05/24/10 01:26:00 From jsorozco at gmail.com Mon May 24 22:06:30 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 18:06:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries Message-ID: <3E12A08BA90E44E9A4441FBD1EB79EBB@Rufus> Hello, Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to download NLS books who do not live in the United States? I vaguely remember there being some kind of international program for this purpose. I'm trying to find something for someone who'd like to access books from the BARD database. Thanks for any help.--Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Mon May 24 22:59:28 2010 From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] interduction Message-ID: <389900.22052.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello to all my fellow NABS members, My name is Anmol Bhatia and I am happy to report that I will be attending my first NFB convention in Dallas this summer. I am from India but have lived in Arkansas for little more then 20 years since elementary school. Long story behind that which will share during the convention. I am currently a graduate student at University of Arkansas at Little Rock doing my graduate certificate in conflict mediation. I really am in need of a roommate to cut down on the cost of a hotel room. So if anyone is interested in sharing a room please email me off list at anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com Thanks so much in advance and I look forward to meeting all of you in Dallas. best wishes Anmol I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers. Hellen Keller From thebluesisloose at gmail.com Tue May 25 00:29:58 2010 From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 18:29:58 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] interduction In-Reply-To: <389900.22052.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <389900.22052.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Anmol. I"m Beth Taurasi. Currently, I"m undecided. I did music for a bit, then social work, now trying to get my independence at the Colorado Center for the Blind. I am from Florida, which is a first for the folks in Colorado. But they're pretty cool. I'll also be going to Dallas, so ... see you in DAllas! \Beth On 5/24/10, Anmol Bhatia wrote: > Hello to all my fellow NABS members, > My name is Anmol Bhatia and I am happy to report that I will be attending my > first NFB convention in Dallas this summer. > I am from India but have lived in Arkansas for little more then 20 years > since elementary school. > Long story behind that which will share during the convention. > I am currently a graduate student at University of Arkansas at Little Rock > doing my graduate certificate in conflict mediation. > I really am in need of a roommate to cut down on the cost of a hotel room. > So if anyone is interested in sharing a room please email me off list at > anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com > Thanks so much in advance and I look forward to meeting all of you in > Dallas. > > best wishes > Anmol > > > I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps > there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze > among flowers. > Hellen Keller > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 25 00:48:22 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 19:48:22 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Mobile Geo 2.5, Now available! Message-ID: >From: "Code Factory News (no reply)" >To: >Subject: Mobile Geo 2.5, Now available! >Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:48:05 +0200 > > >Logo Code Factory > > >Caroline Ragot - Marketing Director >marketing at codefactory.es > >Mobile Geo 2.5 > > >Mobile Geo 2.5, Now available! > > > > > >Support for 2010 Maps and POIs, Manual Route >Creation, Address Search by Zip Code and More... > > > > > >FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > > >Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, May 24, 2010 > > > >Three months after the release of Mobile Geo >2.0, Code Factory is proud to release V2.5, a >free update for all users of Mobile Geo 2.0. >Mobile Geo is the best navigation tool for blind >people who want to explore the world with their >mobile phone. To learn more about Mobile Geo >visit >http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=336 > >"The main goal of this new Mobile Geo version is >to allow our users to update their maps and POIs >for free. It is very important to us to make >sure that our users have access to the most >accurate data so that they feel safe traveling >with Mobile Geo. This means that even though Geo >2.5 is plugged into the Sendero 2010 GPS SDK, >all the new improvements of this new SDK are not >yet integrated" explains Eduard Sánchez, Code >Factory's CEO. "If we'd have added more of the >new SDK features, we would have had to charge >for this upgrade and we really wanted the users >of Mobile Geo 2.0 to have access to the 2010 >maps and POIs for free. Our development team has >also been working hard to bring you new exciting >and useful features powered by Mobile Geo's >engine such as the highly anticipated Manual >Route Creation feature. This is therefore a major free update!" > >Main highlights of Mobile Geo 2.5: > * Compatibility with 2010 maps and POIs, > available at > http://mobilegeo.senderogroup.com/users > (user: mgdemo2010, pwd: codefactory). Note that > full licenses will require new map keys for each registered user. > * Address search by zip postal code. There > are now two search options, you can either > search by city or zip code. It is especially > useful for big cities which have numerous zip > codes for the same area. For example instead of > searching by Barcelona you can search by 08004 for more accuracy. > * Manual route creation feature, which > allows you to save your own waypoints while > creating a route and then replay the route > following your own itinerary instead of Mobile > Geo's automatic route calculation. > * Support for Google Transit Feeds. You > first need to login to your Sendero account and > download the Google transit feed you are > interested in. Then you will be able to search > for the Google Transit information under the > "Travel/Entertainment" subcategory "Transit > Stop". There are already 20 feeds converted > such as New York City, Los Angeles and San Francisco, and more will follow! > * Support for 4 new country maps: Croatia, > Czech Republic, Greece, and United Arab > Emirates. To learn more about the supported > maps as well as region map bundles visit > http://www.codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=336#Maps > > * Easier ways to manage user POIs: You can > set a user POI as a route destination. Go to > Functions (left softkey) > Set positions > User > POI and you will access the POIs list. Then > when you press enter on the POI of your choice, > you can select between "Open", "Set as > destination", "Set as virtual position", or "Delete". > * Ability to create and save a route based > on a GPS replay. Go to Functions (left > softkey) > Modes > GPS Replays > GPS Replay > list, select a file from the list and press > Enter on it. The popup menu will show a new > option called "Create route from replay". Once > the route is created, you can load and follow > it, review its waypoints, delete the route and > do all the same things that you can do with any > other saved route in your device. > >Mobile Geo 2.5 is compatible with the current >version of Mobile Speak 4 for Windows Mobile, >there is no new version of Mobile Speak to install to run Geo 2.5. > >The direct link to download Mobile Geo 2.5 is >http://www.codefactory.es/download.asp?file=family_5/product_20/version_105/MobileGeo_2_5_21.zip > > >To upgrade from Mobile Geo 1.5 to Mobile Geo 2.5 >visit >http://codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=410 > > >To get a free trial of Mobile Geo 2.5, visit >http://codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=409 > > >To read the complete list of new features and >enhancements in Mobile Geo 2.5, visit >http://codefactory.es/en/products.asp?id=413 > > > >About Code Factory > > > >Founded in 1998 and headquartered in Terrassa >(Barcelona), Spain, Code Factory is the global >leader committed to the development of products >designed to eliminate barriers to the >accessibility of mobile technology for the blind >and visually impaired. Today, Code Factory is >the leading provider of screen readers, screen >magnifiers, and Braille interfaces for the >widest range of mainstream mobile devices. Among >Code Factory's customers are well known >organizations for the blind such as ONCE, and >carriers such as AT&T, Bouygues Telecom, SFR, >TIM and Vodafone. Code Factory has also built >strong partnerships with mainstream >multinational companies like RIM, Nokia, >Microsoft, and Hewlett Packard as well as >leading assistive technology companies such as >HumanWare, Optelec and Sendero Group. > >For more information, feel free to contact Code Factory S.L.: > > >Code Factory, S.L., Rambla d'Egara 148 2-2, 08221 Terrassa (Barcelona) >HelpDesk, www.codefactory.es >Code Factory, S.L. - 2010 > > > >---------- David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From nabs.president at gmail.com Tue May 25 01:46:15 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 19:46:15 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] NABS State Contacts Message-ID: Hi all, We are finishing up development of the revamped NABS website and we need to make sure that we have current contact information for all of our state student divisions. If you are the president of your state's student division or if you are serving as the student contact for your state (i.e. if your state doesn't have a student division yet), please email Meghan Whalen at mewhalen at wisc.edu and provide your name, phone and email. Please also let her know whether you would like your phone number, email address, or both to be listed on the NABS website as a contact for students in your state. Please contact Meghan even if you have recently given us your information, so we can verify that your contact info is current. Thanks! Also, as always, if you organize a state division or if your existing division changes presidents, please let me know who the president is so I can have an updated list of state presidents and so I can ensure that the president receives relevant announcements from NABS. Thanks for your cooperation. Arielle -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From dandrews at visi.com Tue May 25 01:57:43 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 20:57:43 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: <3E12A08BA90E44E9A4441FBD1EB79EBB@Rufus> References: <3E12A08BA90E44E9A4441FBD1EB79EBB@Rufus> Message-ID: Joe: I don't specifically know -- you could ask at NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD. I would guess that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, and in good standing, they could download. But it is not being offered to people who are citizens of other countries. Dave At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >Hello, > >Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to download NLS >books who do not live in the United States? I vaguely remember there being >some kind of international program for this purpose. I'm trying to find >something for someone who'd like to access books from the BARD database. >Thanks for any help.--Joe David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From ignasicambra at gmail.com Tue May 25 13:14:31 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:14:31 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] interduction In-Reply-To: References: <389900.22052.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48946CC3-A3C1-4472-996F-BA087BECE18D@gmail.com> I'll be going to Dallas too. I've been invited as the winner of the performing arts division's scholarship, although I've never been to one of these conventions and don't really know what's supposed to be going on over there. I'm from Spain but I've been studying in the US for three years now. All I know is that I will be opening and closing a talent show (or something like that) on july 7th. It should be exciting...hopefully I can get to meet some of you in there... IC On May 24, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Beth wrote: > Hi, Anmol. > I"m Beth Taurasi. Currently, I"m undecided. I did music for a bit, > then social work, now trying to get my independence at the Colorado > Center for the Blind. I am from Florida, which is a first for the > folks in Colorado. But they're pretty cool. > I'll also be going to Dallas, so ... see you in DAllas! > \Beth > > On 5/24/10, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >> Hello to all my fellow NABS members, >> My name is Anmol Bhatia and I am happy to report that I will be attending my >> first NFB convention in Dallas this summer. >> I am from India but have lived in Arkansas for little more then 20 years >> since elementary school. >> Long story behind that which will share during the convention. >> I am currently a graduate student at University of Arkansas at Little Rock >> doing my graduate certificate in conflict mediation. >> I really am in need of a roommate to cut down on the cost of a hotel room. >> So if anyone is interested in sharing a room please email me off list at >> anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com >> Thanks so much in advance and I look forward to meeting all of you in >> Dallas. >> >> best wishes >> Anmol >> >> >> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze >> among flowers. >> Hellen Keller >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From agrima at nbp.org Tue May 25 15:04:57 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:04:57 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] New, revised edition of "Using the Accessible iPod" Message-ID: <971DB1618B614E7DBD1512DE7EDD31DB@nbp2.local> Here's a new, revised book from NBP. -Tony Grima, NBP Using the Accessible iPod: iTunes 9 Edition in Braille, eBraille (CD or download), DAISY (CD or download), or text file, $15.00 This book provides the latest information on the accessible iPods created by Apple - the fourth and fifth generation iPod Nanos and the third generation iPod Shuffle - and the latest version of iTunes. Anna Dresner walks you through getting started with iTunes and using all the accessible features on these iPods. You'll learn to import music into iTunes; use the iTunes store; sync music, audiobooks, podcasts and video to your iPod; and much more. Appendices provide answers to frequently asked questions and resources for keeping up with new iPod developments. Read the complete Table of Contents here: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/ACCIPOD.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 20. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Tue May 25 15:13:58 2010 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:13:58 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Roomate for National Convention Message-ID: Hi list, one of our Students from Ny has a room for national convention and she is looking for roomates. contact her off list for more info at nihal_erkan at hotmail.com Thanks, Alex From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Tue May 25 17:31:49 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 11:31:49 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Ray McGeorge Update Message-ID: Greetings friends: Ray remains in stable but critical condition in the ICU at Rose Hospital. I spent some time with him yesterday afternoon and he acknowledged my presence by gripping my hand. Ray has not demonstrated any significant improvement but at least he has not faced any additional, major set-backs. Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers and please keep them coming. Some have asked me whether they should send cards, flowers, or other items. We appreciate the thought, but it is best not to do so at this time. Diane spends the large majority of each day at the hospital and pretty much only goes home to rest. Because Ray is in the ICU, items such as flowers are not allowed. Diane says that the best thing you can do now is to keep the prayers and positive thoughts coming. With warm regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From agrima at nbp.org Wed May 26 01:15:35 2010 From: agrima at nbp.org (Tony Grima) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 20:15:35 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NBP-Announce: New iTunes 9 edition of "Using the Accessible iPod" Message-ID: Using the Accessible iPod: iTunes 9 Edition in Braille, eBraille (CD or download), DAISY (CD or download), or text file, $15.00 This book provides the latest information on the accessible iPods created by Apple - the fourth and fifth generation iPod Nanos and the third generation iPod Shuffle - and the latest version of iTunes. Anna Dresner walks you through getting started with iTunes and using all the accessible features on these iPods. You'll learn to import music into iTunes; use the iTunes store; sync music, audiobooks, podcasts and video to your iPod; and much more. Appendices provide answers to frequently asked questions and resources for keeping up with new iPod developments. Read the complete Table of Contents here: http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/ACCIPOD.html ****** To order any books, send payment to: NBP, 88 St. Stephen Street, Boston, MA 02115-4302 Or call and charge it: toll-free (800) 548-7323 or (617) 266-6160 ext 20. Or order any of our books online at http://www.nbp.org/ic/nbp/publications/index.html . _______________________________________________ Nbp mailing list Nbp at nbp.org PLEASE DO NOT respond to this message! It is an automated message and your query will not reach us. Send questions to orders at nbp.org . Visit us at http://www.nbp.org From dandrews at visi.com Wed May 26 01:45:03 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 20:45:03 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] C.A.R.S. Division Reaching Out to NFB. Membership Message-ID: From: AmNaulty at aol.com [ mailto:AmNaulty at aol.com] Subject: C.A.R.S. Division Reaching Out to N.F.B. Membership This is a message from the C.A.R.S. Division of the National Federation of the Blind. We are asking the N.F.B. membership, across the country, to consider joining the C.A.R.S. Division. While we are only five years old, we are energetic and committed to growth. We are fast, fun and focused. Dues are only $5.00 each year. Many of us have very fond, happy memories of cars we once owned or family cars which took us to school, jobs and shopping. Keep those fun memories alive and join the C.A.R.S. Division of the National Federation of the Blind. When we convene in Dallas, Texas, the Division needs assistance with the following activities: 1. Setting up the C.A.R.S. Division table in the exhibit hall, Saturday, July 3, Noon to 4 p.m. 2. Covering the C.A.R.S. table during exhibit hours 3. Helping with the Automobile Show, Sunday, July 4, 12 Noon to 4 p.m. Monday evening, July 5, the C.A.R.S. Division will conduct a seminar with interesting guest speakers. Our annual general meeting and election of officers will take place that evening after the seminar. We would welcome interested N.F.B. members to get involved and join our fun activities. The C.A.R.S. Division will be offering affordable model cars, membership forms and agendas of C.A.R.S. activities at the table in the exhibit hall. We hope everyone will stop by and chat with our current members. It is always fun to meet new people and make new friends. We all know of Dr. Maurer's interest in driving a car; help us "drive" fun activities at the Convention and expand the work of the C.A.R.S. Division in 2010. If you have enjoyed the experience of seeing and touching the special interest cars and motorcycles at previous National Conventions, please consider donating a few hours to help the C.A.R.S. Division continue the tradition of fun and enjoyment for everyone. We invite you to contact: Joseph B. Naulty, President e-mail jnaulty at cfl.rr.com< mailto:jnaulty at cfl.rr.com> address: 996 South Fork Circle Melbourne, FL 32901 (321) 768-9500 David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dsmithnfb at gmail.com Wed May 26 18:39:41 2010 From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:39:41 -0700 Subject: [nabs-l] interduction In-Reply-To: <48946CC3-A3C1-4472-996F-BA087BECE18D@gmail.com> References: <389900.22052.qm@web53801.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <48946CC3-A3C1-4472-996F-BA087BECE18D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi all, at the risk of making this an "I'm going to dallas" string... I'm soo going to convetion and I'm excited to meet everyone who can make it! there's going to be alot to do and quite a bit of work to get done, but alot of fun shall take place as well. see you all there, Darian On 5/25/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I'll be going to Dallas too. I've been invited as the winner of the > performing arts division's scholarship, although I've never been to one of > these conventions and don't really know what's supposed to be going on over > there. I'm from Spain but I've been studying in the US for three years now. > All I know is that I will be opening and closing a talent show (or something > like that) on july 7th. It should be exciting...hopefully I can get to meet > some of you in there... > > IC > On May 24, 2010, at 8:29 PM, Beth wrote: > >> Hi, Anmol. >> I"m Beth Taurasi. Currently, I"m undecided. I did music for a bit, >> then social work, now trying to get my independence at the Colorado >> Center for the Blind. I am from Florida, which is a first for the >> folks in Colorado. But they're pretty cool. >> I'll also be going to Dallas, so ... see you in DAllas! >> \Beth >> >> On 5/24/10, Anmol Bhatia wrote: >>> Hello to all my fellow NABS members, >>> My name is Anmol Bhatia and I am happy to report that I will be attending >>> my >>> first NFB convention in Dallas this summer. >>> I am from India but have lived in Arkansas for little more then 20 years >>> since elementary school. >>> Long story behind that which will share during the convention. >>> I am currently a graduate student at University of Arkansas at Little >>> Rock >>> doing my graduate certificate in conflict mediation. >>> I really am in need of a roommate to cut down on the cost of a hotel >>> room. >>> So if anyone is interested in sharing a room please email me off list at >>> anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com >>> Thanks so much in advance and I look forward to meeting all of you in >>> Dallas. >>> >>> best wishes >>> Anmol >>> >>> >>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps >>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a >>> breeze >>> among flowers. >>> Hellen Keller >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloose%40gmail.com >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com > -- Darian Smith Skype: The_Blind_Truth Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com “We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” - Teilhard de Chardin From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 26 20:42:25 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:42:25 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Apple offering price breaks for college students Message-ID: <3828D1534786429EB8911DC8D6EF5364@Rufus> Apple offering price breaks for college students Promotion launched Tuesday offers college students and teachers of any grade a free iPod Touch with purchase of new Mac, plus educational pricing. Source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20005892-37.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Ne ws-Apple Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing From jsorozco at gmail.com Wed May 26 20:48:06 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:48:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: It's a Keyboard! No! It's a PC! Message-ID: <0482228E5FA944DE8A225825E384C84F@Rufus> See? Read below, and you may find that the idea of blind consumers requesting more for their money is not completely out of line. Is it completely crazy that a Braille display could be fitted to this new type of keyboard? I'm thinking it's about as crazy of a notion as people felt when Apple decided to build its own screen reader.--Joe Subject: It's a Keyboard! No! It's a PC! It's a Keyboard! No! It's a PC! Finally, the all-in-one keyboard PC surfaces on the market. Source: http://feeds.nytimes.com/click.phdo?i=5f16c89ee8224c45e2de066761a1435c * Home Page * Today's Paper * Video * Most Popular * Times Topics Search All NYTimes.comSearch New York Times Business DayPersonal Tech * World * U.S. * N.Y. / Region * Business * Technology * Science * Health * Sports * Opinion * Arts * Style * Travel * Jobs * Real Estate * Autos Search TechnologySearch Personal Tech > * Camcorders * Cellphones * Digital Cameras * Portable Computers * TVs * All Products All Products Pogue 's Posts > Gadgetwise > DIGITAL VIDEO & PHOTOGRAPHY * Digital Camcorders * Digital Cameras MOBILE * Cellphones * E-Book Readers * GPS * Headsets & Accessories MUSIC & VIDEO * Music Players * Speaker & Home Theater Systems * TVs * Video Players PERSONAL COMPUTING * Desktops * Portable Computers * Printers * Storage * Wi-Fi VIDEO GAMES * Game Systems & Accessories * Games _____ Gadgetwise - The New York Times Blog _____ May 24, 2010, 3:34 pm It's a Keyboard! No! It's a PC! By STEPHEN WILLIAMS Asus Eee PC Keyboard The idea of containing an entire computer - including display screen - on what is essentially just a keyboard, has been in the fermenting stage for some time at Asus. Enter, this month, the all-in-one Asus Eee PC Keyboard, which is finally shipping, at a price of $600. It's a handsome piece, not particularly radical; it looks like a silver-finished keyboard. The centerpiece, which is to the right of the full-size keys, is a five-inch, rectangular, 800-by-480 LED-lighted touch screen, which looks a lot like an iPhone. It is very crowded inside that slim wedge of a touch screen; Asus found spots for a 16-gigabyte solid-state drive, a gigabyte of RAM, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth chips, plus video outputs (including HDMI) and U.S.B. ports. Processing power comes from an Intel Atom chip. The computer runs Microsoft Windows XP version, not Vista. The device is not meant to replace a laptop for mobile workaholics. And it won't. The display is useful mainly as a window for Internet browsing, e-mailing, Facebooking and receiving RSS feeds. To Asus, the device is a desktop replacement or supplement. But in practice, it behaves like .well, a keyboard, with nicely clicking keys. Although the screen to the right side is bright and crisp, I would not get rid of that LCD monitor just yet. The device was first shown in January 2009, at the Consumer Electronics Show, and its introduction was an on-again, off-again affair, as the company waffled on specs and release dates for months before the "formal" release was announced earlier this month. It is now available for purchase at retailers including Amazon. * E-mail This * Print * Share Close * Linkedin * Digg * Facebook * Mixx * My Space * * Permalink * Personal Computing , Asus , Eee Keyboard PC Related Posts >From Gadgetwise * Cachet and Carry: New Slim PCs Arrive * From Bits: Sony Enters the Netbook Fray at a Premium Price * Disney Gets In on the Netbook Craze * Speed Up Your Computer's Graphics * Battle of the Netbook Stars, Continued _____ * Previous post Bringing an Internet Connection to Tuscany * Search This Blog * Previous post Bringing an Internet Connection to Tuscany * Subscribe * Gadgetwise RSS Follow us on * Twitter Topics * Digital Photography * Home Entertainment * Mobile Tech * Personal Computing Recent Posts May 24 It 's a Keyboard! No! It's a PC! Finally, the all-in-one keyboard PC surfaces on the market. May 24 Bringing an Internet Connection to Tuscany A global USB cellular data modem isn't cheap or super speedy, but it can provide Internet access when you need it, wherever you roam. May 24 Q. &A.: Keeping Picasa and Gmail Separate How to keep Picasa name tags out of your Gmail contacts list. May 21 DuPont Says It Is Working on an 'Affordable' OLED TV DuPont proposes an advanced television technology at lower prices. May 21 Sheet Music Apps for Your Phone Comparing two sheet-music apps for your iPhone or iPad. Archive Select Month May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 About Gadgetwise Gadgetwise is a blog about everything related to buying and using tech products. 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Video Game Review: 'Red Dead Redemption' Brings Old West to Life By SETH SCHIESEL There is no more succinct and appropriate way to describe Red Dead Redemption than a tour de force. State of the Art: Sony's Entry in the Big Sensor-Small Camera Race By DAVID POGUE The hybrid camera market for digital S.L.R.'s is young but growing. Sony joins the fray with the Alpha NEX-5. Home * World * U.S. * N.Y. / Region * Business * Technology * Science * Health * Sports * Opinion * Arts * Style * Travel * Jobs * Real Estate * Autos * Back to Top <> Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company * Privacy * Terms of Service * Search * Corrections * RSS * First Look * Help * Contact Us * Work for Us * Advertise * Site Map DCSIMG From ignasicambra at gmail.com Wed May 26 21:40:52 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:40:52 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Apple offering price breaks for college students In-Reply-To: <3828D1534786429EB8911DC8D6EF5364@Rufus> References: <3828D1534786429EB8911DC8D6EF5364@Rufus> Message-ID: For those of you who haven't considered a Mac as an extremely accessible and viable solution for school (or for anything actually...), I would recommend going to an Apple Store and taking the time to experiment with any computer that you like. They are all accessible. There is documentation online that will help you to understand how the built-in screen reader works. In any case, be aware that the free iPod touch that comes with new macs for students is the only inaccessible model that's still being manufactured (the $199 one). I think you can still use the money toward the purchase of an other iPod though. The $299 iPod touch is accessible. IC On May 26, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > Apple offering price breaks for college students > > Promotion launched Tuesday offers college students and teachers of any grade > a free iPod Touch with purchase of new Mac, plus educational pricing. > > Source: > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20005892-37.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Ne > ws-Apple > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From JHartle at nfb.org Thu May 27 02:48:00 2010 From: JHartle at nfb.org (Hartle, Jesse) Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 21:48:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Legislative Alert - Motor Vehicle Safety Act Message-ID: Dear Fellow Federationists: I am writing to report that all of our hard work on the issue of silent cars is paying off. Language that will protect the blind and others from the danger posed by silent hybrid and electric vehicles has been favorably reported to the United States House of Representatives by the Committee on Energy and Commerce as part of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 2010 (H.R. 5381). This legislation, which is a comprehensive bill to address numerous vehicle safety issues raised by the recent Toyota recalls, now includes language agreed to by the National Federation of the Blind, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers, and the Association of International Automobile Manufacturers. If passed by the House of Representatives and adopted by the Senate, this language will require the Department of Transportation to issue regulations requiring a minimum sound standard for hybrid and electric automobiles. This victory is a product of our hard work and the cooperation of the automobile industry, but we will need to remain vigilant to make sure this bill becomes law. We will keep you apprised of developments and let you know if action needs to be taken to secure this victory. Thank you again for all you do. Sincerely, Jesse M. Hartle Government Programs Specialist NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND Telephone: (410) 659-9314, extension 2233 E-mail: jhartle at nfb.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Legislative Alert 05-26-2010-.doc Type: application/msword Size: 25600 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freethaught at gmail.com Thu May 27 06:35:40 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 02:35:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries References: <3E12A08BA90E44E9A4441FBD1EB79EBB@Rufus> Message-ID: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> Joe, and Dave, Correct, U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded by U.S. $s. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > Joe: > > I don't specifically know -- you could ask at NLSDownload at loc.gov as they > do support for BARD. I would guess that if the person was a U.S. citizen, > and registered with NLS, and in good standing, they could download. But > it is not being offered to people who are citizens of other countries. > > Dave > > At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >>Hello, >> >>Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to download NLS >>books who do not live in the United States? I vaguely remember there >>being >>some kind of international program for this purpose. I'm trying to find >>something for someone who'd like to access books from the BARD database. >>Thanks for any help.--Joe > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From freethaught at gmail.com Thu May 27 06:56:01 2010 From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr.) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 02:56:01 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History References: Message-ID: <7BA63C3F3F844B3FB8D2DE99BBE77A1E@userf9b4fa60eb> Hi, Jedi, I wonder how you find yourself more capable to open the door, and the slide ramp better than many people you know if you haven't actually had the experience of, thus the ability to learn to deal with the equipment before. Just as there are capable, and not so capable sighted people, many of whom can not open the door and the slide, there are many blind people who are not capable of performing the duties. I for one don't mind, and don't care to sit in exit sitting, as long as I can sit in a place more or less determined by me. That would mean I would not choose to sit in a bulk head seat. If the airline can pre-screen for likely liabilities, IE. blind passenger who can't see the handle for the ramp, they will. And if I can be seated in a reasonable fashion, and get to my destination without snag, I am fine, and feel treated fairly for the services the airline offers. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are > realizing how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit > in an exit row. One thing I > forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we were > about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that > would have not > only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been > prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would > have excluded us from > quite a number of seats on some planes. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: > >>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>can't have given a better suggestion! > >>Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>sighted persons I know. > >>Respectfully, >>Jedi > > >>Original message: >>> Hello Peter, > >>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>> Hello Briley and everyone, > >>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>> equal >>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>> kind of >>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>>> much >>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>> bulkhead >>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>> post-board, >>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>> guard >>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>> than >>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. > >>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>> several >>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>>> row; >>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>> in >>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>> the >>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>> activities. >>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>> or >>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>> often. >>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>>> down >>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>> and >>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>>> All >>>> the best. > >>>> Peter Donahue > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>> blindteen > > >>>> Valory, > >>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>> was >>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>> What >>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>> Media >>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>> acceptable. > >>>> Briley > > >>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. > >>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>> judgement >>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>> we >>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>> unfair >>>>> to point fingers. > >>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>> needs >>>>> sighted help in everything. > >>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>> and >>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > >>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > >>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>> that >>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > >>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > >>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, > >>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>> too >>>>>> quickly. > >>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that >>>>>> I >>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>> and >>>>>> sometimes I don't. > >>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > >>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>>> cope. > >>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>> due >>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > >>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>> turn >>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>> story. > >>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>> Island >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>>> went >>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>> check of the plane. > >>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>> news >>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>> said >>>>>>> sorry." > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>-- >>Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>_______________________________________________ >>nabs-l mailing list >>nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>nabs-l: >>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > From loneblindjedi at samobile.net Thu May 27 09:58:34 2010 From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (Jedi) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 05:58:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History Message-ID: <20100527095834.2835.26299@web3> Antonio, It's kind of rediculous that I should have to prove my capacity to open the door to anyone much less you when sighted people don't have to. That's the issue, isn't it? As you have already stated, there's no guarantee that all sighted people are truly capable of opening the door, but it's enough to know that they believe they can by virtue of the intelligence to figure it out. Lest anyone think that a sighted person would be able to figure out how to open the door by means of reading visual instructions, I should point out that not all sighted people can understand diagrams of that sort much less utilize them. Just a thought. If the cabin is dark or smoky, visual instructions won't help anyone. Respectfully, Jedi Original message: > Hi, > Jedi, I wonder how you find yourself more capable to open the door, and the > slide ramp better than many people you know if you haven't actually had the > experience of, thus the ability to learn to deal with the equipment before. > Just as there are capable, and not so capable sighted people, many of whom > can not open the door and the slide, there are many blind people who are not > capable of performing the duties. > I for one don't mind, and don't care to sit in exit sitting, as long as I > can sit in a place more or less determined by me. That would mean I would > not choose to sit in a bulk head seat. > If the airline can pre-screen for likely liabilities, IE. blind passenger > who can't see the handle for the ramp, they will. And if I can be seated in > a reasonable fashion, and get to my destination without snag, I am fine, and > feel treated fairly for the services the airline offers. > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > Student, Western Governors University > (617) 744-9716 > Eastern time zone > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Jacobson" > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:18 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History >> You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are >> realizing how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit >> in an exit row. One thing I >> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we were >> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that >> would have not >> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been >> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would >> have excluded us from >> quite a number of seats on some planes. >> Best regards, >> Steve Jacobson >> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: >>> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>> can't have given a better suggestion! >>> Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>> think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>> exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>> and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>> those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>> worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>> fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>> or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>> the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>> the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>> competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>> Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>> cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>> society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>> thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>> quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>> arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>> our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>> in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>> White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>> That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>> battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>> we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>> sighted persons I know. >>> Respectfully, >>> Jedi >>> Original message: >>>> Hello Peter, >>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. >>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. >>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. >>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. >>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>>> Hello Briley and everyone, >>>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>>> equal >>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>>> kind of >>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>>>> much >>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>>> bulkhead >>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>>> post-board, >>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>>> guard >>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>>> than >>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. >>>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>>> several >>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>>>> row; >>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>>> in >>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>>> the >>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>>> activities. >>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>>> or >>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>>> often. >>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>>>> down >>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>>> and >>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>>>> All >>>>> the best. >>>>> Peter Donahue >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>>> blindteen >>>>> Valory, >>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>>> was >>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>>> What >>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>>> Media >>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>>> acceptable. >>>>> Briley >>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: >>>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. >>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>>> judgement >>>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>>> we >>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>>> unfair >>>>>> to point fingers. >>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>>> needs >>>>>> sighted help in everything. >>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>>> and >>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. >>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. >>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>>> that >>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. >>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: >>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, >>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>>> too >>>>>>> quickly. >>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> sometimes I don't. >>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. >>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>>>> cope. >>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>>> due >>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. >>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: >>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>>> story. >>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen >>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 >>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>>> Island >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. >>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. >>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>>> check of the plane. >>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. >>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>>> news >>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. >>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>> sorry." >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net >>> -- >>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. From catherine.1966 at yahoo.com Thu May 27 11:37:05 2010 From: catherine.1966 at yahoo.com (catherine.1966 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 04:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject) Message-ID: <864213.65931.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://tech.epkefloczoh.com From brileyp at gmail.com Thu May 27 13:10:26 2010 From: brileyp at gmail.com (Briley Pollard) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 08:10:26 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History In-Reply-To: <20100527095834.2835.26299@web3> References: <20100527095834.2835.26299@web3> Message-ID: It is also important to note that everyone else who sits in those seats is only instructed to give it up if they "feel they are not willing or able to complete these tasks." Why should we not be permitted to use our own judgment on this matter? We should have to prove it to someone else? I should think not. Briley On May 27, 2010, at 4:58 AM, Jedi wrote: > Antonio, > > It's kind of ridiculous that I should have to prove my capacity to open the door to anyone much less you when sighted people don't have to. That's the issue, isn't it? As you have already stated, there's no guarantee that all sighted people are truly capable of opening the door, but it's enough to know that they believe they can by virtue of the intelligence to figure it out. Lest anyone think that a sighted person would be able to figure out how to open the door by means of reading visual instructions, I should point out that not all sighted people can understand diagrams of that sort much less utilize them. Just a thought. If the cabin is dark or smoky, visual instructions won't help anyone. > > Respectfully, > Jedi > > Original message: >> Hi, > >> Jedi, I wonder how you find yourself more capable to open the door, and the >> slide ramp better than many people you know if you haven't actually had the >> experience of, thus the ability to learn to deal with the equipment before. > >> Just as there are capable, and not so capable sighted people, many of whom >> can not open the door and the slide, there are many blind people who are not >> capable of performing the duties. > >> I for one don't mind, and don't care to sit in exit sitting, as long as I >> can sit in a place more or less determined by me. That would mean I would >> not choose to sit in a bulk head seat. > >> If the airline can pre-screen for likely liabilities, IE. blind passenger >> who can't see the handle for the ramp, they will. And if I can be seated in >> a reasonable fashion, and get to my destination without snag, I am fine, and >> feel treated fairly for the services the airline offers. > > >> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > >> Student, Western Governors University >> (617) 744-9716 >> Eastern time zone >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve Jacobson" >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 12:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Airlines and Federation History > > >>> You make some very good points here. I don't think that some are >>> realizing how little is really expected of most people who choose to sit >>> in an exit row. One thing I >>> forgot to mention when I was writing about why we were as upset as we were >>> about exit rows in the 80's is that there was a policy considered that >>> would have not >>> only prohibited us from sitting in exit rows, we would also have been >>> prohibited from the row in front of or behind an exit row. That would >>> have excluded us from >>> quite a number of seats on some planes. > >>> Best regards, > >>> Steve Jacobson > >>> On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:24:46 -0400, Jedi wrote: > >>>> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read Walking Alone and Marching Together! Peter >>>> can't have given a better suggestion! > >>>> Unfortunately folks, this is exactly the press that makes airlines >>>> think we can't do for ourselves thus asking us not to sit in emergency >>>> exits, asking us to preboard, asking us to deplane after everyone else, >>>> and altogether treating us as though we can't handle ourselves. For >>>> those who think the emergency exit row thing is not such a big deal and >>>> worth fighting over, let me remind you that a person as young as >>>> fifteen can sit there, a person served alcohol (either before boarding >>>> or on the plane) can sit there, and anyone who judges themselves (with >>>> the exceptions of the deaf, the blind, the non-English speaking, and >>>> the otherwise visibly disabled) can sit there. So basically, we're less >>>> competent, in the opinion of FFA, than a fifteen-year-old or a drunk. >>>> Others are allowed to judge their fitness for sitting there, but we >>>> cannot. Is that worth fighting about? Absolutely! Unfortunately, how >>>> society thinks of us in this context is very indicative of how society >>>> thinks of us in others. This might sound harsh, but it's unfortunately >>>> quite true. The bottom line here is that blind people are treated >>>> arbitrarily based on someone else's opinion of what we can do versus >>>> our own. Arbitrary treatment of this kind is not limited to disability >>>> in our past, but has also been used to separate People of Color from >>>> White folks back in the day and even now to an often invisible extent. >>>> That's why Federationists fought. Unfortunately, we did lose that >>>> battle, but that doesn't mean that we won't reserect it someday. I hope >>>> we do as I consider myself more capable of opening that exit than many >>>> sighted persons I know. > >>>> Respectfully, >>>> Jedi > > >>>> Original message: >>>>> Hello Peter, > >>>>> I must say that NFB's issues with the airlines are an excellent example >>>>> of the need to pick battles one can actually win. > >>>>> It is my thought that the fight over the exit row was ridiculous. > >>>>> There's only one case where it might be a legitimate issue. That would >>>>> be if it resulted in a blind person actually being denied the trip. > >>>>> If the blind person can be reseated or a sighted one is voluntarily >>>>> bumped in order to secure the blind person's equal rights in the case of >>>>> a packed flight, then the matter is resolved IMHO. > > >>>>> On 5/16/2010 11:50 AM, Peter Donahue wrote: >>>>>> Hello Briley and everyone, > >>>>>> If people would take the time to read Walking Alone and Marching >>>>>> Together they would learn of the federation's long struggle to secure >>>>>> equal >>>>>> access for the blind in air travel. It is a history filled with the >>>>>> kind of >>>>>> publicity and dribble that can result from incidents like this one, and >>>>>> much >>>>>> much more. Blind people had their canes taken away from them by airline >>>>>> personnel, were told they couldn't sit in seat rows other than the >>>>>> bulkhead >>>>>> if they used a guide dog, were told they needed to preboard and >>>>>> post-board, >>>>>> the list goes on. Read past issues of The Braille Monitor from the late >>>>>> 1980s and the early 1990s to get an idea of the kind of discrimination >>>>>> heaped on blind air passengers and why today we must still be on our >>>>>> guard >>>>>> when stories of this kind hit the media. Blind people were arrested and >>>>>> physically removed from planes and went to jail for doing nothing more >>>>>> than >>>>>> demanding to be treated like other passengers. > >>>>>> We successfully closed down a US Airways ticket counter for >>>>>> several >>>>>> hours due to their demanding a blind person move from an emergency exit >>>>>> row; >>>>>> a seat he was assigned in the first place. The NFB held several protest >>>>>> against the FAA and the DOT due to their unwillingness to take a hand >>>>>> in >>>>>> remedying the discriminatory treatment we experienced at the hands of >>>>>> the >>>>>> airlines and still do. I know because I took part in several of these >>>>>> activities. >>>>>> Other types of air passengers now experience similar treatment. Large >>>>>> passengers are an example. The NFB can teach the flying public a thing >>>>>> or >>>>>> two about fighting the horrible treatment now experienced all too >>>>>> often. >>>>>> They just need to learn to stop, as Dr. Maurer put it in 1986, "Sitting >>>>>> down >>>>>> and shutting up!"We as federationists need to remember these struggles >>>>>> and >>>>>> not take the freedom of travel we now have for granted. These nabsters >>>>>> aren't just squealing over nothing but are remembering our past and >>>>>> upholding our legacy of collective action by reacting the way they are. >>>>>> All >>>>>> the best. > >>>>>> Peter Donahue > >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Briley Pollard" >>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 9:39 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Members] Airline apologizes for forgetting >>>>>> blindteen > > >>>>>> Valory, > >>>>>> Again, the reason this is upsetting is A, this girl, (from the way it >>>>>> was >>>>>> portrayed), isn't comfortable enough with herself to stand up for her >>>>>> rights, and B, (the biggest issue), how we're portrayed in the media. >>>>>> What >>>>>> is said about one of us is perceived to be a definition of all of us. >>>>>> Media >>>>>> coverage of us is so often negative and condescending, and yes, it does >>>>>> upset me, and yes it does push me to speak up about how this is not >>>>>> acceptable. > >>>>>> Briley > > >>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 10:15 PM, Valerie Gibson wrote: > > >>>>>>> I agree. Seems to quick to point out someone else's fault and become >>>>>>> indignant for all over one person's actions. > >>>>>>> There's just not enough imformation in the article to make such >>>>>>> judgement >>>>>>> calls. We can only say what we would do in that situation, and while >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> don't know this girl's background or mental capabilities it seems >>>>>>> unfair >>>>>>> to point fingers. > >>>>>>> Perhaps she did not know that there are organisations like the NFB who >>>>>>> could help her. Perhaps she has been told all of her life that she >>>>>>> needs >>>>>>> sighted help in everything. > >>>>>>> We've all been in a position where we did not know how to do things, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> judging that you have found this mailing list, you've found the NFB as >>>>>>> well as a sense of endependance. Not everyone has done so. > >>>>>>> Does it look bad for the blind community? Yes. > >>>>>>> But how's this for a solution: try and find this girl and tell her >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> there are places where she can learn a bit of independance. > >>>>>>> On May 15, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Darrell Shandrow wrote: > > >>>>>>>> Hello Sarah and all, > >>>>>>>> I think we may want to exercise care before judging this situation >>>>>>>> too >>>>>>>> quickly. > >>>>>>>> Many times while traveling by air, flight attendants have asked that >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> wait until the plane has emptied before leaving. Sometimes I do this >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> sometimes I don't. > >>>>>>>> If Jessica were asked to wait, then she were forgotten, then she >>>>>>>> certainly does have a very legitimate complaint here. > >>>>>>>> We also need to keep in mind that members of the blind community have >>>>>>>> wide ranging capabilities and other disabilities with which they must >>>>>>>> cope. > >>>>>>>> As always, this just comes down to the fact we all must exercise our >>>>>>>> due >>>>>>>> diligence while performing our jobs to avoid problems of this sort. > > >>>>>>>> On 5/15/2010 4:19 PM, Sarah Alawami wrote: > >>>>>>>>> I think she should have gotten off the plain by her self. How hard >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> that be? just get off and turn right and go up the ramp thing and >>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>> left and get out and then wait for your escort. but here's the >>>>>>>>> story. > >>>>>>>>> Airline apologizes for forgetting blind teen > >>>>>>>>> Edmonton Journal , May 15, 2010 > >>>>>>>>> United Airlines has apologized to a blind woman from Vancouver >>>>>>>>> Island >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> was abandoned on an empty plane in Chicago. > >>>>>>>>> Jessica Cabot of Courtenay, B.C., made headlines this week after she >>>>>>>>> went >>>>>>>>> public about being forgotten in an empty United Airlines plane on an >>>>>>>>> April 7 >>>>>>>>> stopover in Chicago. > >>>>>>>>> The 18-year-old was waiting for flight attendants to escort her to a >>>>>>>>> connecting flight to Florida when she heard the plane door seal >>>>>>>>> shut. >>>>>>>>> Ten >>>>>>>>> minutes later two maintenance staff happened to find her on an >>>>>>>>> unscheduled >>>>>>>>> check of the plane. > >>>>>>>>> She panicked in the plane, calling for help. > >>>>>>>>> After a series of complaints, Cabot received a $250 airline voucher >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> promise of an apology. Five weeks after her flight and a series of >>>>>>>>> news >>>>>>>>> stories later, she finally got one. > >>>>>>>>> "They just called," said Cabot, on the phone from Jacksonville, >>>>>>>>> Fla., >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> she is visiting her fiance. "I can't even count how many times they >>>>>>>>> said >>>>>>>>> sorry." > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue1%40sbcglobal.net > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>>> nabs-l: >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/darrell.shandrow%40gmail.com > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>>> nabs-l: >>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > >>>> -- >>>> Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit >>>> www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>>> nabs-l: >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net > > -- > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brileyp%40gmail.com From stevemax83 at yahoo.com Thu May 27 15:16:55 2010 From: stevemax83 at yahoo.com (Steven Max-Faults) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 08:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> Message-ID: <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It does seem justified that NLS services are only available to US citizens. However, I’m wondering about US citizens abroad, such as someone on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know?   Thanks, Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM Joe, and Dave, Correct, U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded by U.S. $s. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > Joe: > > I don't specifically know -- you could ask at NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD.  I would guess that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, and in good standing, they could download.  But it is not being offered to people who are citizens of other countries. > > Dave > > At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to download NLS >> books who do not live in the United States?  I vaguely remember there being >> some kind of international program for this purpose.  I'm trying to find >> something for someone who'd like to access books from the BARD database. >> Thanks for any help.--Joe > >                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax83%40yahoo.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Thu May 27 16:41:42 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:41:42 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> I wish NLS would collaborate with some international body to make the content available to people from other countries. It's a fine collection of books, and literature should not be limited to a specific country simply because we have the money to make it happen and others don't. But, perhaps another rant for another day. For the moment I am very appreciative that we at least have this service available to us. Joe “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:17 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries It does seem justified that NLS services are only available to US citizens. However, I’m wondering about US citizens abroad, such as someone on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know?   Thanks, Steven Steven Max-Faults SteveMax83 at yahoo.com 917-865-6953 (Mobile) --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. wrote: From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM Joe, and Dave, Correct, U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded by U.S. $s. Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. Student, Western Governors University (617) 744-9716 Eastern time zone ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" To: ; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > Joe: > > I don't specifically know -- you could ask at NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD.  I would guess that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, and in good standing, they could download.  But it is not being offered to people who are citizens of other countries. > > Dave > > At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to download NLS >> books who do not live in the United States?  I vaguely remember there being >> some kind of international program for this purpose.  I'm trying to find >> something for someone who'd like to access books from the BARD database. >> Thanks for any help.--Joe > >                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethau ght%40gmail.com > _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax 83%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu May 27 16:49:40 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 12:49:40 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> References: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> Message-ID: I think that if you're studying abroad, you can just go on the website and download as usual since you have a password and such. Part of the problem, i suspect, has to do with international copyright laws. Hopefully when google books become accessible the whole world will be able to access literature. I completely agree with Joe that literature should be accessible to everyone. If you think about it, no matter where in the world you are blind, you face the same challenges. Even with NLS books we stil have to wait some time before we have access to the latest books. Many blind people in other countries don't even have this opportunity. U.S. tax dollars go all over the world for different political reasons, so I don't see why literacy can't be incorperated. Mary On 5/27/10, Joe Orozco wrote: > I wish NLS would collaborate with some international body to make the > content available to people from other countries. It's a fine collection of > books, and literature should not be limited to a specific country simply > because we have the money to make it happen and others don't. But, perhaps > another rant for another day. For the moment I am very appreciative that we > at least have this service available to us. > > Joe > > “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:17 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > > > > > > It does seem justified that NLS services are only available > to US citizens. However, I’m wondering about US citizens > abroad, such as someone > on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know? > > > > Thanks, > > Steven > > Steven Max-Faults > > > > SteveMax83 at yahoo.com > > 917-865-6953 (Mobile) > > --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > wrote: > > From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > > Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM > > Joe, and Dave, > > Correct, > > U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, > but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. > > Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded > by U.S. $s. > > Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > > Student, Western Governors University > (617) 744-9716 > Eastern time zone > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" > To: ; "National Association of Blind > Students mailing list" > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > > >> Joe: >> >> I don't specifically know -- you could ask at > NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD.  I would guess > that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, > and in good standing, they could download.  But it is not being > offered to people who are citizens of other countries. >> >> Dave >> >> At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to > download NLS >>> books who do not live in the United States?  I vaguely > remember there being >>> some kind of international program for this purpose.  I'm > trying to find >>> something for someone who'd like to access books from the > BARD database. >>> Thanks for any help.--Joe >> >>                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com >> Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethau > ght%40gmail.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax > 83%40yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From jj at bestmidi.com Thu May 27 17:21:14 2010 From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:21:14 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Agenda Posted Message-ID: <5D6E5D35B3964B78B0086115ED30646F@jage> The convention agenda has just been posted online. Here it is in Microsoft Word format. http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/word/2010_Convention_Agenda_Web.doc J.J. Meddaugh - ATGuys.com A premier Code Factory, KNFB Reader, and Sendero distributor From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu May 27 17:37:51 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:37:51 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: References: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> Message-ID: Hey, Are there any changes to hte schedule, I want to finish that today. Thanks. Mary On 5/27/10, Mary Fernandez wrote: > I think that if you're studying abroad, you can just go on the website > and download as usual since you have a password and such. Part of the > problem, i suspect, has to do with international copyright laws. > Hopefully when google books become accessible the whole world will be > able to access literature. I completely agree with Joe that literature > should be accessible to everyone. If you think about it, no matter > where in the world you are blind, you face the same challenges. Even > with NLS books we stil have to wait some time before we have access to > the latest books. Many blind people in other countries don't even have > this opportunity. U.S. tax dollars go all over the world for > different political reasons, so I don't see why literacy can't be > incorperated. > Mary > > > On 5/27/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >> I wish NLS would collaborate with some international body to make the >> content available to people from other countries. It's a fine collection >> of >> books, and literature should not be limited to a specific country simply >> because we have the money to make it happen and others don't. But, >> perhaps >> another rant for another day. For the moment I am very appreciative that >> we >> at least have this service available to us. >> >> Joe >> >> “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >> sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:17 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >> >> >> >> >> >> It does seem justified that NLS services are only available >> to US citizens. However, I’m wondering about US citizens >> abroad, such as someone >> on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Steven >> >> Steven Max-Faults >> >> >> >> SteveMax83 at yahoo.com >> >> 917-865-6953 (Mobile) >> >> --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> wrote: >> >> From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >> Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM >> >> Joe, and Dave, >> >> Correct, >> >> U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, >> but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. >> >> Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded >> by U.S. $s. >> >> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >> Student, Western Governors University >> (617) 744-9716 >> Eastern time zone >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >> To: ; "National Association of Blind >> Students mailing list" >> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >> >> >>> Joe: >>> >>> I don't specifically know -- you could ask at >> NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD.  I would guess >> that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, >> and in good standing, they could download.  But it is not being >> offered to people who are citizens of other countries. >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to >> download NLS >>>> books who do not live in the United States?  I vaguely >> remember there being >>>> some kind of international program for this purpose.  I'm >> trying to find >>>> something for someone who'd like to access books from the >> BARD database. >>>> Thanks for any help.--Joe >>> >>>                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com >>> Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethau >> ght%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax >> 83%40yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From trillian551 at gmail.com Thu May 27 19:41:47 2010 From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 15:41:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: References: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> Message-ID: ooops, wrong email! On 5/27/10, Mary Fernandez wrote: > Hey, > Are there any changes to hte schedule, I want to finish that today. > Thanks. > Mary > > > On 5/27/10, Mary Fernandez wrote: >> I think that if you're studying abroad, you can just go on the website >> and download as usual since you have a password and such. Part of the >> problem, i suspect, has to do with international copyright laws. >> Hopefully when google books become accessible the whole world will be >> able to access literature. I completely agree with Joe that literature >> should be accessible to everyone. If you think about it, no matter >> where in the world you are blind, you face the same challenges. Even >> with NLS books we stil have to wait some time before we have access to >> the latest books. Many blind people in other countries don't even have >> this opportunity. U.S. tax dollars go all over the world for >> different political reasons, so I don't see why literacy can't be >> incorperated. >> Mary >> >> >> On 5/27/10, Joe Orozco wrote: >>> I wish NLS would collaborate with some international body to make the >>> content available to people from other countries. It's a fine >>> collection >>> of >>> books, and literature should not be limited to a specific country simply >>> because we have the money to make it happen and others don't. But, >>> perhaps >>> another rant for another day. For the moment I am very appreciative >>> that >>> we >>> at least have this service available to us. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> “Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their >>> sleeves, >>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all.”--Sam Ewing >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults >>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:17 AM >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> It does seem justified that NLS services are only available >>> to US citizens. However, I’m wondering about US citizens >>> abroad, such as someone >>> on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Steven >>> >>> Steven Max-Faults >>> >>> >>> >>> SteveMax83 at yahoo.com >>> >>> 917-865-6953 (Mobile) >>> >>> --- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >>> >>> Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM >>> >>> Joe, and Dave, >>> >>> Correct, >>> >>> U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, >>> but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. >>> >>> Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded >>> by U.S. $s. >>> >>> Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>> >>> Student, Western Governors University >>> (617) 744-9716 >>> Eastern time zone >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >>> To: ; "National Association of Blind >>> Students mailing list" >>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >>> >>> >>>> Joe: >>>> >>>> I don't specifically know -- you could ask at >>> NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD.  I would guess >>> that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, >>> and in good standing, they could download.  But it is not being >>> offered to people who are citizens of other countries. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to >>> download NLS >>>>> books who do not live in the United States?  I vaguely >>> remember there being >>>>> some kind of international program for this purpose.  I'm >>> trying to find >>>>> something for someone who'd like to access books from the >>> BARD database. >>>>> Thanks for any help.--Joe >>>> >>>>                         David Andrews:  dandrews at visi.com >>>> Follow me on Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nabs-l mailing list >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethau >>> ght%40gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/stevemax >>> 83%40yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >>> info for nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >>> %40gmail.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >>> nabs-l: >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> Mary Fernandez >> Emory University 2012 >> P.O. Box 123056 >> Atlanta Ga. >> 30322 >> Phone: 732-857-7004 >> In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that >> greatness is never a given. It must be earned. >> President Barack Obama >> > > > -- > Mary Fernandez > Emory University 2012 > P.O. Box 123056 > Atlanta Ga. > 30322 > Phone: 732-857-7004 > In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that > greatness is never a given. It must be earned. > President Barack Obama > -- Mary Fernandez Emory University 2012 P.O. Box 123056 Atlanta Ga. 30322 Phone: 732-857-7004 In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. President Barack Obama From braille at nbpcb.org Fri May 28 02:22:20 2010 From: braille at nbpcb.org (Louise Walch) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:22:20 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Testing at NFB National Convention Message-ID: A reminder to all: Testing for National Certification in Literary Braille (NCLB). will be held at this year's NFB National Convention in Dallas this July. Date: Sunday and Monday, July 4-5, 2010 Time: 1-5pm on both days Location: Hilton Anatole Hotel 2201 Stemmons Freeway Dallas, Texas 75207 Cost: $250 (or $75 per single section) Application deadline: Sunday, June 13, 2010 *Unless otherwise notified, candidates must be present for all four sections. Sections one and two will be offered on Sunday, July 4, and sections three and four will be offered on Monday, July 5. Alternative testing may be available on a very limited basis. To apply online go to: https://nbpcb.org/members/login.php?r=/members/er.php?eid=41 For further information please contact Louise Walch, NCLB coordinator at braille at nbpcb.org or call 318-257-4554. Thanks, Louise Louise Walch NCLB Braille Exam Coordinator braille at nbpcb.org www.nbpcb.org Louise G. Walch NBPCB Coordinator braille at nbpcb.org www.nbpcb.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NCLB General Announcement 2010.doc Type: application/msword Size: 25088 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 28 02:37:04 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:37:04 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> References: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> Message-ID: International copyright is a real can of worms -- but it is being worked on, so I think we could see some movement in the next few years. Dave At 11:41 AM 5/27/2010, you wrote: >I wish NLS would collaborate with some international body to make the >content available to people from other countries. It's a fine collection of >books, and literature should not be limited to a specific country simply >because we have the money to make it happen and others don't. But, perhaps >another rant for another day. For the moment I am very appreciative that we >at least have this service available to us. > >Joe > >"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > >-----Original Message----- >From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:17 AM >To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > > > > > >It does seem justified that NLS services are only available >to US citizens. However, I'm wondering about US citizens >abroad, such as someone >on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know? > > > >Thanks, > >Steven > >Steven Max-Faults > > > >SteveMax83 at yahoo.com > >917-865-6953 (Mobile) > >--- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > wrote: > >From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" > >Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM > >Joe, and Dave, > >Correct, > >U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, >but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. > >Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded >by U.S. $s. > >Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. > >Student, Western Governors University >(617) 744-9716 >Eastern time zone >----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >To: ; "National Association of Blind >Students mailing list" >Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries > > > > Joe: > > > > I don't specifically know -- you could ask at >NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD. I would guess >that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, >and in good standing, they could download. But it is not being >offered to people who are citizens of other countries. > > > > Dave > > > > At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: > >> Hello, > >> > >> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to >download NLS > >> books who do not live in the United States? I vaguely >remember there being > >> some kind of international program for this purpose. I'm >trying to find > >> something for someone who'd like to access books from the >BARD database. > >> Thanks for any help.--Joe > > > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri May 28 03:56:28 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:56:28 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: Greetings Friends: I visited with Ray and Diane in the hospital today. In short, there is no significant change. Ray remains stable with one step forward occuring yesterday afternoon. Ray was off the respirator for about two hours in the afternoon. They are attempting to gradually remove him from the vent and see how well he can maintain his own breathing. He remains unconscious except that he does seem to recognize us by gripping our hands when we hold his and some time turning his head towards our voices. These are tiny steps but steps in the right direction. The other good thing is that he has not suffered any further set backs since early last week. Again, Diane expresses her heart felt grattitude for all your prayers and thoughts. She needs them just as much as ever. Many of you have responded to my posts and I thank you for your responses. They are quite numerous and it is difficult for me to respond to each and every one of you. Please know we appreciate very much your messages and I pass them onto Diane and I tell Ray that many, many folks across the country are thinking of and praying for him. With warm regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri May 28 06:35:00 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 01:35:00 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Ray McGeorge Message-ID: Greetings Friends: I visited with Ray and Diane in the hospital today. In short, there is no significant change. Ray remains stable with one step forward occurring yesterday afternoon. Ray was off the respirator for about two hours in the afternoon. They are attempting to gradually remove him from the vent and see how well he can maintain his own breathing. He remains unconscious except that he does seem to recognize us by gripping our hands when we hold his and some time turning his head towards our voices. These are tiny steps but steps in the right direction. The other good thing is that he has not suffered any further set backs since early last week. Again, Diane expresses her heart felt gratitude for all your prayers and thoughts. She needs them just as much as ever. Many of you have responded to my posts and I thank you for your responses. They are quite numerous and it is difficult for me to respond to each and every one of you. Please know we appreciate very much your messages and I pass them onto Diane and I tell Ray that many, many folks across the country are thinking of and praying for him. With warm regards, Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 13:49:34 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:49:34 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games Message-ID: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> Hi, As I said before, first we gotta change the law. second, decide on a standard for audio game programming. third, make a good solid game company, made of multiple people, assigned their own task or tasks to make game creation more effective. perhaps collaborate through skype and dropbox. next change the law so games in a specialised format for people with disabilities may include sounds story lines plots music and characters from video games as longg as the game is in a specialised format for people who are blind visually impaired or similar disability that prevents them from playing that brand new accessible video game console. now, when the company has enough money, the company should save some. now use that money to develop your own game console, or take a standard console, re-flash and modify it for accessibility by disabled people. now go to game conventions and show off your new game console. eventually my brother and sister's generation, and even my generation will get old, lose eye-sight, and won't be able to play their favorite video games. so lets make a kind of national library or international library service nls for video games in specialised format. Sorry guys I'm not a programmer, just putting out ideas. now to make a great game, lets compare it to a book. a sighted person can go out and read a harry potter book, get it in print, I can sit down beside that person with my audio book or braille book from nls and read it, talk about and enjoy it along with my sighted friend. so lets incorporate that into games. first, lets put games on instead lets put them on blueray disks, lots of space, or maybe 32gig flash drives, read only flash memory. lots of room there to store data. when a blind person wants to play a game with his or her sighted friend, the person plugs headphones in, the game turns on accessibility mode when the console detects headphones plugged in. Point is we can't have one guy here and another there trying to do it on their own. a company, an organised company has to be started with both short and longterm goals. laws gotta be changed so we can make and sell good high quality games, we gotta take our games to the conventions and really mount a presence there. weneed the nfb and ACB both involved in this. who cares if you like them or hate them point is they're a big big organizations and they can help! but will they? now if blind people can help design accessible games, game consoles, and the like, working for soni or EA-games that'd be great! for too long here is how we made games. on guy starts a game company, uses visual basic, another starts his own company uses a different language and another and another. most of these die very fast because its usually too much work for one guy to make a really good game or he doesn't have the skills. we gotta organise, and either push game companiess to include accessibility, or organise and make one or two big game companies, have a standard, assign tasks, make our own or modify existing game consoles for accessibility. not only will it be enjoyable for the player but it'll make new jobs available, and let the sighted community know by our presence at gaming conventions that we want to be included in the video game fun as well. Josh -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 13:55:24 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:55:24 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 189 Message-ID: <4BFFCB4C.6070304@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 189 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:32:00 -0700 From: gamers-request at audyssey.org Reply-To: gamers at audyssey.org To: gamers at audyssey.org Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers at audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-request at audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-owner at audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Bryan Peterson) 2. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Mauricio Almeida) 3. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Bryan Peterson) 4. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Bryan Peterson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:18:55 -0600 From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID:<2EDEB76165724A41972B2872E9493B5E at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Exactly. I know of a lot of people, some right here on this list, who wouldn't be willing to wait that long, much less without hounding the developer so much that the dev became burned out as Thomas has with MOTA. And he's only been working on this project for about four years overall. We're a small enough market that realistically what you're suggesting is all but impossible. We are the Knights who say...Ni! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to > produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on > one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM > Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact >> that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, >> it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep >> up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game >> never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames >> market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys >> aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these >> expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new >> mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial >> game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels >> and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content >> free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored >> of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay >> value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. >> and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers >> start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more >> social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much >> rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some >> rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting >> with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even >> if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much >> more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the >> trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact >> there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV >> and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims >> about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that >> have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, >> when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is >> it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm >> asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when >> people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell >> them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on >> what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio >> games are only a 1 man operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your >> game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same >> programming language you do, and get together and form a programming >> team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 >> years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio >> game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I >> just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this >> is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, >> and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers alike to make it >> happen! >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: 27 May 2010 23:20:31 -0300 From: "Mauricio Almeida" To: Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID:<20100528022037.1CDE5E00027D at socom4.uol.com.br> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 alright mate. when i'm milionaire with my web business i'll shoot it down and program games you classify as good. for now, i will program what i have teh time to program. you have to consider that the blind public is not even one quarter of teh sighted public, and with the crackes out there noone would make real money out of it, which would be quite frustrating, since whomever the man developer is would have spent years in programming. mauricio -----Mensagem original----- De: "Charles Rivard" Para: "Gamers Discussion list" Data: Quinta, 27 de Maio de 2010 21:12 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just > keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio > games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your > own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll > still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it > should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders > clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is > most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. > Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out > there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play > troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply > frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good > games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have > and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but > because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, > perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your > money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about > purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming > wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write > or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If > I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention > out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Rivard" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to >> produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on >> one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Yohandy" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>> fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if >>> they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out >>> just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after >>> that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting >>> the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. >>> what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay >>> for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a >>> new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the >>> initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional >>> levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable >>> content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people >>> get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have >>> much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't >>> been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about >>> time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make >>> games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this >>> list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super >>> street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. >>> why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same >>> offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online >>> features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible >>> game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can >>> keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to >>> complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for >>> over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to >>> online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, >>> we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games >>> are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to >>> add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like >>> to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll >>> ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never >>> happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. >>> and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio games are only a 1 man >>> operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that >>> long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, >>> and get together and form a programming team. but give us something >>> good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! >>> this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands >>> now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an >>> hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many >>> people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, >>> developers and gamers alike to make it happen! >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:20:54 -0600 From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response That's exactly what I was getting at. I certainly wouldn't be willing to spend eight to ten years on one project, and to be quite frank I'm not necessarily enough of a team player to be willing to work with other people, not even people I knew well. That's an excellent way to potentially ruin friendships, particularly if you can't agree with your partner(s) on which way the game should go.. We are the Knights who say...Ni! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > The one-man game developing company is not an excuse. It's a fact, so, > while it is a shame, we've got to consider it. No ifs, ands, or buts. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Peterson" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to >> wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because >> we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out >> endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could >> find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd >> also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. >> That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's >> cold hard fact. >> We are the Knights who say...Ni! >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "clement chou" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as >>> well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. >>> There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I >>> think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank >>> Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens >>> wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I >>> for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the >>> cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the >>> same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can >>> only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other >>> people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Yohandy" >>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM >>> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >>> >>> >>>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>>> fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if >>>> they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out >>>> just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after >>>> that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting >>>> the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. >>>> what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay >>>> for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a >>>> new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the >>>> initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those >>>> additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the >>>> downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular >>>> game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game >>>> doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why >>>> this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I >>>> think it's about time developers start adding an online component to >>>> their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any >>>> developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few >>>> rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most >>>> accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing >>>> the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter >>>> didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable >>>> than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the >>>> game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are >>>> people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the >>>> game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about >>>> audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have >>>> online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when >>>> most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it >>>> all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm >>>> asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when >>>> people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell >>>> them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating >>>> on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the "oh but >>>> audio games are only a 1 man operation" excuse. Take 10 years to >>>> develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the >>>> same programming language you do, and get together and form a >>>> programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be >>>> proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely >>>> revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the >>>> audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and >>>> never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. >>>> something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and >>>> gamers alike to make it happen! >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>> list, >>>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:31:53 -0600 From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID:<85BC2661433342F5993CA7ABE2891F56 at OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original And that's another valid point. Those cheapskates who can't be bothered to pay for a game are often only too happy to help others of their ilk obtain illegal copies of games, and unless we obtain copyrights for our products, which can be quite expensive, there's really nothing we can do about it, especially if the game is based on something that's also copyrighted. We are the Knights who say...Ni! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mauricio Almeida" To: Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > alright mate. > when i'm milionaire with my web business i'll shoot it down and program > games you classify as good. > for now, i will program what i have teh time to program. > you have to consider that the blind public is not even one quarter of > teh sighted public, and with the crackes out there noone would make real > money out of it, which would be quite frustrating, since whomever the > man developer is would have spent years in programming. > > mauricio > -----Mensagem original----- > De: "Charles Rivard" > Para: "Gamers Discussion list" > Data: Quinta, 27 de Maio de 2010 21:12 > Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I > had the time, I would. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just >> keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio >> games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your >> own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll >> still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it >> should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space >> invaders >> clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is >> most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. >> Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out >> there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play >> troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply >> frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good >> games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have >> and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but >> because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, >> perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your >> money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about >> purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming >> wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm >> write >> or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If >> I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention >> out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles Rivard" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to >>> produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on >>> one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Yohandy" >>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM >>> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >>> >>> >>>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>>> fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if >>>> they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out >>>> just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after >>>> that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting >>>> the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. >>>> what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay >>>> for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a >>>> new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the >>>> initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those >>>> additional >>>> levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable >>>> content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people >>>> get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have >>>> much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't >>>> been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about >>>> time developers start adding an online component to their titles to >>>> make >>>> games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this >>>> list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super >>>> street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. >>>> why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same >>>> offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online >>>> features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible >>>> game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which >>>> can >>>> keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to >>>> complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for >>>> over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to >>>> online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, >>>> we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream >>>> games >>>> are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to >>>> add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like >>>> to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll >>>> ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never >>>> happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers >>>> want. >>>> and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio games are only a 1 >>>> man >>>> operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that >>>> long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, >>>> and get together and form a programming team. but give us something >>>> good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! >>>> this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands >>>> now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about >>>> an >>>> hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many >>>> people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of >>>> us, >>>> developers and gamers alike to make it happen! >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>> list, >>>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. End of Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 189 *************************************** -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 14:14:32 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:14:32 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 190 Message-ID: <4BFFCFC8.5030601@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 190 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:21:58 -0700 From: gamers-request at audyssey.org Reply-To: gamers at audyssey.org To: gamers at audyssey.org Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers at audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-request at audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-owner at audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: shoot 97 revamped? I hope?? - Re: Where have allthedevelopers gone? (Dakotah Rickard) 2. importing dos to windows (michael barnes) 3. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Ken) 4. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Ken) 5. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Hayden Presley) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:37:41 -0400 From: Dakotah Rickard To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] shoot 97 revamped? I hope?? - Re: Where have allthedevelopers gone? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I really want that game back. One more thing, please, if you're going to port it to windows, feel free to add whatever you want, after all, it's youre game. Please, though, please make the original game a playable style. I love that game. It's the first game my brothers, both of whom are sighted, played with me. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 5/27/10, Phil Vlasak wrote: > Hi Charles and K brothers, > I do plan to make a windows version of Shoot as part of my Cops game. > I personally like the bulls eye target that told you how close you were to > hitting the center of the target. > The way I figure your gun would work is that instead of aiming and firing > your gun, you would pull it out of your holster and as the gun was rising up > you would have to hit the space bar to fire at the correct tenth of a second > to hit the target. > If you know how the Ten Pin Bowling aiming works then it would be the same > effect except for being vertical instead of horizontal. > And if you missed the target going up, then you still had a chance to hit it > coming back down. > Phil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "The Kolesar Brothers" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] shoot 97 revamped? I hope?? - Re: Where have > allthedevelopers gone? > > >> Hey Charles. If you see it revised for windows? Le me know as well. >> ron >> Have a good day, >>> From the Kolesar brothers and our puppies >> kolesar16417 at roadrunner.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles Rivard" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:08 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] shoot 97 revamped? I hope?? - Re: Where have all >> thedevelopers gone? >> >> >> I loved the sounds of that game, and sure would like to see it available >> for >> Windows platforms. I liked the skeet shooting range, too. It was fun >> competing against other people in the house. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ken" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Where have all the developers gone? >> >> >>>I still miss Junkyard! That was cool, especially blowing up the propane >>>tank. >>> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2899 - Release Date: 05/27/10 > 02:25:00 > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:54:06 -0400 From: michael barnes To: gamers at audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] importing dos to windows Message-ID:<20100528025406.8468.42865 at web3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed" hey it would be cool if someone could make destination to mars for windows. you know with today sound efects and also run for president. it could have different presidents voices or to be safe have different people voices as the different people runing for president. if the makers of these games could be contact that would be great. -- Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network. Visit www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:59:11 -0400 From: "Ken" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Yes, and by the end of that time, Vista, windows 7 and whatever else we'd be coding for would be history. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > Hi, > Eight years spent on coding, and let's add on jobs etc to that. Shall we > say...15 years? > Best Regards, > Hayden > > -----Original Message----- > From: gamers-bounces at audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-bounces at audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Hayden Presley > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:24 PM > To: 'Gamers Discussion list' > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > Hi, > And sound...can you imagine playing the equivalent of Mortal Combat with > recorded sounds? Otherwise, you'd spend thousands upon thousands of > dollars. > Best Regards, > Hayden > > -----Original Message----- > From: gamers-bounces at audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-bounces at audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Bryan Peterson > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to > wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because > we > are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out > endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could > find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also > have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. > That's > partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard > fact. > We are the Knights who say...Ni! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "clement chou" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as >> well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. >> There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think >> bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank >> Commander, > >> while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss >> either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be >> interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply >> recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought >> up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing >> shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged >> death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Yohandy" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>> fact > >>> that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they >>> are, > >>> it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep >>> up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game >>> never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames >>> market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys >>> aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these >>> expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new >>> mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial >>> game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels >>> and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content >>> free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored >>> of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay >>> value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done >>> yet. > >>> and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers >>> start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more >>> social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd >>> much > >>> rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or >>> some > >>> rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting >>> with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even >>> if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much >>> more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the >>> trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in >>> fact > >>> there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV >>> and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims >>> about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that >>> have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, >>> when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is >>> it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so >>> I'm > >>> asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when >>> people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell >>> them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on >>> what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio >>> games are only a 1 man operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your >>> game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same >>> programming language you do, and get together and form a programming >>> team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 >>> years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the >>> audio > >>> game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I >>> just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this >>> is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, >>> and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers alike to make it >>> happen! >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2900 - Release Date: 05/27/10 14:30:00 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 23:02:20 -0400 From: "Ken" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original One of the best gaming experiences I have had is in playing Quake, talking to the other players using Teamtalk. The only way that could have been better is if Teamtalk could have positioned players' audio so you could hear where they were. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact > that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, > it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep > up > the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game > never > gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, > and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't > realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. > mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game > comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the > developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested > will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even > more > copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, > especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I > don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the > only > problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online > component > to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any > developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few > rounds > of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible > games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact > same > offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online > features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game > out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep > you > busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial > mode > on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys > make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few > audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate > through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even > video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no > developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. > This > is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, > I > tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating > on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio > games are only a 1 man operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your > game > if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming > language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us > something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and > say > wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it > stands > now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an > hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many > people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, > developers and gamers alike to make it happen! > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2900 - Release Date: 05/27/10 14:30:00 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 22:21:25 -0500 From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Yahondy, Sigh. We never said we wouldn't do it. That's not the issue. You are right, it is hard. You mentioned Street Fighter IV. How many devs do you think were working on that game? I grant you, I'd like to see some mainstream titles myself, but the way you are going about it, it sounds like a slap in the face to many devs of blind games. I don't want to start an argument, but you do have to look at it from the programmers' perspective. Best Regards, Hayden -----Original Message----- From: gamers-bounces at audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-bounces at audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:12 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just > keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio > games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your > own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll > still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it > should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders > clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is > most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. > Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out > there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play > troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply > frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good > games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have > and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but > because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, > perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your > money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about > purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming > wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write > or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If > I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention > out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Rivard" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to >> produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on >> one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Yohandy" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM >> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>> fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if >>> they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out >>> just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after >>> that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting >>> the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. >>> what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay >>> for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a >>> new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the >>> initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional >>> levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable >>> content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people >>> get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have >>> much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't >>> been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about >>> time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make >>> games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this >>> list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super >>> street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. >>> why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same >>> offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online >>> features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible >>> game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can >>> keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to >>> complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for >>> over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to >>> online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, >>> we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games >>> are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to >>> add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like >>> to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll >>> ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never >>> happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. >>> and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio games are only a 1 man >>> operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that >>> long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, >>> and get together and form a programming team. but give us something >>> good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! >>> this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands >>> now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an >>> hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many >>> people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, >>> developers and gamers alike to make it happen! >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. End of Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 190 *************************************** -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 14:22:23 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:22:23 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 191 Message-ID: <4BFFD19F.8050305@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 191 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:21:16 -0700 From: gamers-request at audyssey.org Reply-To: gamers at audyssey.org To: gamers at audyssey.org Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers at audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-request at audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-owner at audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Christopher Bartlett) 2. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Lisa Hayes) 3. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Lisa Hayes) 4. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (dark) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:00:53 -0700 From: "Christopher Bartlett" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID:<000001cafe1a$5f083a60$1d18af20$@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lest all be doom and gloom, I'd like to point out two counterexamples, being Entombed and Time of Conflict. Both David Greenwood and Jason Allen have been supporting the heck out of their respective new titles. There was a period for Entombed where we had six releases within 7 days to try and fix a set of bugs introduced in a new feature. David is creating an on-line component for ToC. Greenwood's games are of a complexity that dwarfs most other offerings in the market, and Allen's reconception of the rogue-like games is addictive and has lots of replay value. Most important of all, both of these developers have created and nourished vibrant communities around their games. Participants are encouraged to submit ideas, bug reports and suggestions for the direction of the games in question, and we see those suggestions being implemented. As an example, I wrote a several-page initial review and wish list for ToC when I first got it. The most recent revision incorporates some of the more important items on my wish list and hints David has given lead me to suspect that more are coming, as well as lots of cool stuff I never thought of. I would hold these developers up as examples of what can be accomplished by the canonical one-man shop. Crowd-sourcing creative development, at least to the extent of welcoming and taking the best of user input solves one part of the problem. Good and constant communications with the user base makes users willing to be patient. And lest those of us on the extreme fringe of complexity-seeking get too complacent, remember that a lot of the sighted market is content with less complex games too. My wife, who is sighted would far rather play Bejeweled, or Peggle than any FPS (they make her sick) or complex combat sim. The casual gaming market is every bit as important as the hard core market. Does that mean devs may spend time on these games that they could be spending on something more hard core? Of course. And rightly so from a business perspective. I get the sense that many devs create the games they have wanted to play, rather than having a business plan that says, I'll corner this part of the market with this title and go after the granny-gamers with this one and get the hard-core teens with Blood and Iron XII. Let's be real, this isn't something you do for a living, it's a labor of love. Still, it's a business and needs to conducted as such by those who wish to charge for their efforts. Then again, I haven't found a free game that has held my interest for more than a few minutes, so I'll continue to selectively buy what I like, and if the developer is willing to listen to my thoughts, he or she will win my loyalty. I've bought everything GMA produced except the VIP mud client, which I just wouldn't use. I will continue this record as long as David keeps producing games. Christopher Bartlett ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:14:53 +1000 From: "Lisa Hayes" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID:<0508AD866812417E9FBF480FDF88C3E7 at pc1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response And what sighted developer works eight to ten years on one game, that market would fall apart if that were the case. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > That's exactly what I was getting at. I certainly wouldn't be willing to > spend eight to ten years on one project, and to be quite frank I'm not > necessarily enough of a team player to be willing to work with other > people, not even people I knew well. That's an excellent way to > potentially ruin friendships, particularly if you can't agree with your > partner(s) on which way the game should go.. > We are the Knights who say...Ni! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Rivard" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> The one-man game developing company is not an excuse. It's a fact, so, >> while it is a shame, we've got to consider it. No ifs, ands, or buts. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bryan Peterson" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to >>> wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because >>> we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out >>> endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could >>> find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd >>> also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention >>> licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an >>> excuse, it's cold hard fact. >>> We are the Knights who say...Ni! >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "clement chou" >>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >>> >>> >>>> Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as >>>> well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. >>>> There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I >>>> think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank >>>> Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens >>>> wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I >>>> for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the >>>> cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the >>>> same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can >>>> only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other >>>> people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be >>>> great. >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Yohandy" >>>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM >>>> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >>>> >>>> >>>>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>>>> fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if >>>>> they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out >>>>> just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then >>>>> after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is >>>>> hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential >>>>> customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even >>>>> willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the >>>>> time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are >>>>> added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 >>>>> for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or >>>>> offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that >>>>> particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if >>>>> the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't >>>>> understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only >>>>> problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online >>>>> component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no >>>>> offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online >>>>> and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band >>>>> than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with >>>>> people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if >>>>> street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much >>>>> more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the >>>>> trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in >>>>> fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street >>>>> Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make >>>>> such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few >>>>> audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to >>>>> communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice >>>>> chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat >>>>> to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed >>>>> on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up >>>>> to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs >>>>> need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please >>>>> I don't want to hear the "oh but audio games are only a 1 man >>>>> operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that >>>>> long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, >>>>> and get together and form a programming team. but give us something >>>>> good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! >>>>> this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it >>>>> stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in >>>>> about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true >>>>> for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to >>>>> all of us, developers and gamers alike to make it happen! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>>> list, >>>>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>> list, >>>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:15:44 +1000 From: "Lisa Hayes" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID:<8B210C6A846D4CE9BF6575C0ADD31627 at pc1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response so the heck would I. I've got ideas, but no programming knowledge. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I > had the time, I would. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yohandy" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. > > >> ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just >> keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio >> games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your >> own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll >> still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it >> should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space >> invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating >> thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great >> games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know >> what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to >> play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply >> frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good >> games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have >> and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but >> because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, >> perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your >> money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about >> purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming >> wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm >> write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never >> happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming >> convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it >> on iphones. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles Rivard" >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >> >> >>> Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to >>> produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on >>> one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Yohandy" >>> To: "Gamers Discussion list" >>> Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM >>> Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. >>> >>> >>>> when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the >>>> fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if >>>> they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out >>>> just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after >>>> that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting >>>> the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. >>>> what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay >>>> for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a >>>> new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the >>>> initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those >>>> additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the >>>> downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular >>>> game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game >>>> doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why >>>> this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I >>>> think it's about time developers start adding an online component to >>>> their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any >>>> developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few >>>> rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most >>>> accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing >>>> the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter >>>> didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable >>>> than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the >>>> game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are >>>> people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the >>>> game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about >>>> audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have >>>> online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when >>>> most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it >>>> all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm >>>> asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when >>>> people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell >>>> them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating >>>> on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the "oh but >>>> audio games are only a 1 man operation" excuse. Take 10 years to >>>> develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the >>>> same programming language you do, and get together and form a >>>> programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be >>>> proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely >>>> revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the >>>> audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and >>>> never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. >>>> something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and >>>> gamers alike to make it happen! >>>> >>>> >>>> --- >>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>>> list, >>>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 05:21:16 +0100 From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Hi Yohandi, firstly, I will point out that many games actually do do the expantion bit your talking about. Entombed, rail racer, sound rts, che's card games topspeed, all have lots of expandable content, through user created stuff, --- in fact Ithink this is really going to take off when entombed's dungeon creator is released. Second, as regards online play, that is already being added to as many games in as efficient a way as possible, ==== sound rts and toc already have this and as Phil said it's looking at being added to more games, however lso bare in mind there are people (myself included), who are more concerned about a complete single player experience than online interaction, ---- so saying "all games should have this" doesn't take into account our taste. finally, the most major and complete thing to remember is resources. Capcom had a massive team of people working on Streetfighter Iv for four a pretty solid couple of years. For Streetfighter I don't know figures, but i do know the latest mortal combat titles have about 100-150 full time programmers working on the game, testing it, putting it through it's paces. Find 150 programmers who will work on an audio game for 2 years, --- and then you might well get the same result. For a fairer comparison it's more reasonable to compare audio games to independent graphical pc games developed with a similar amount of resources and by a similar number of people. One game for example which I play (not accessible unfortunately), is the game Hurrican. This is a very large exploration 2D platform shooter similar to Metroid or Mega man. it has many features, great sound and environments, and even a level creation tool which some people have used to make extra levels. However, while it's certainly as good as games produced 15 years ago on the Snes, ---- and graphically probably equaling a ps1 game, ---- can it equal games produced now? ---- hell no! And how long did it take to develope? ---- five! years! yes, five! years! for a game which is 10-15 years behind what is produced by companies like capcom. That is really the bottom line. Comparing audio games to games like streetfighter Iv, is like comparing a delivery boy with a bicicle to UPs, and asking why the delivery boy can't have that package in Hongkong tomorrow morning! Beware the grue! Dark. ------------------------------ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. End of Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 191 *************************************** -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From valandkayla at gmail.com Fri May 28 14:25:57 2010 From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:25:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games In-Reply-To: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> References: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <399E4B5D-EB04-4B6F-A24C-41A1FA0CB2BB@gmail.com> YAY, fellow gamer! :D I totally aggre with you. But just as annoying as it is for me to not be able to go out anb buy the same games my friends are playing, it's equally, if not more, frustrating to play a multi-user dungeon with NOTHING but blind people on there. I only say that because: 1. My sighted friends don't seem to understand teh concept of muds, which is odd considering all their visual online games came from the MUD. 2. The blind community is smal in comparison to the rest of the world, and the game world is smaller in comparison to the RL world. These two things combined is an ideal breeding ground for dramma caused by people who can't separate RL from RP (traditional or "hack and slash"). And now that i've vented, i just hav eto say that i think bridging the gap would be ideal, so that sighted people could fight alongside the blind players in a MUD, or, so that we may venture into the world of warcraft, secondlife, etc without thinking, "oh, this is a game for blind people". One final thought, I am sort of impressed at some of these browser based games out there, that are completely acccesible to the blind, and yo have mostly sighted players, compared to the mud, which is more complex in my oppinon. On May 28, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Josh wrote: > Hi, > > As I said before, first we gotta change the law. second, decide on a standard for audio game programming. third, make a good solid game company, made of multiple people, assigned their own task or tasks to make game creation more effective. perhaps collaborate through skype and dropbox. next change the law so games in a specialised format for people with disabilities may include sounds story lines plots music and characters from video games as longg as the game is in a specialised format for people who are blind visually impaired or similar disability that prevents them from playing that brand new accessible video game console. > now, when the company has enough money, the company should save some. now use that money to develop your own game console, or take a standard console, re-flash and modify it for accessibility by disabled people. now go to game conventions and show off your new game console. eventually my brother and sister's generation, and even my generation will get old, lose eye-sight, and won't be able to play their favorite video games. so lets make a kind of national library or international library service nls for video games in specialised format. Sorry guys I'm not a programmer, just putting out ideas. now to make a great game, lets compare it to a book. a sighted person can go out and read a harry potter book, get it in print, I can sit down beside that person with my audio book or braille book from nls and read it, talk about and enjoy it along with my sighted friend. so lets incorporate that into games. first, lets put games on instead lets put them on blueray disks, lots of space, or maybe 32gig flash drives, read only flash memory. lots of room there to store data. when a blind person wants to play a game with his or her sighted friend, the person plugs headphones in, the game turns on accessibility mode when the console detects headphones plugged in. Point is we can't have one guy here and another there trying to do it on their own. a company, an organised company has to be started with both short and longterm goals. laws gotta be changed so we can make and sell good high quality games, we gotta take our games to the conventions and really mount a presence there. weneed the nfb and ACB both involved in this. who cares if you like them or hate them point is they're a big big organizations and they can help! > but will they? > now if blind people can help design accessible games, game consoles, and the like, working for soni or EA-games that'd be great! for too long here is how we made games. on guy starts a game company, uses visual basic, another starts his own company uses a different language and another and another. most of these die very fast because its usually too much work for one guy to make a really good game or he doesn't have the skills. we gotta organise, and either push game companiess to include accessibility, or organise and make one or two big game companies, have a standard, assign tasks, make our own or modify existing game consoles for accessibility. not only will it be enjoyable for the player but it'll make new jobs available, and let the sighted community know by our presence at gaming conventions that we want to be included in the video game fun as well. > > Josh > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 14:36:28 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:36:28 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 193 Message-ID: <4BFFD4EC.5090708@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 193 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 01:02:22 -0700 From: gamers-request at audyssey.org Reply-To: gamers at audyssey.org To: gamers at audyssey.org Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers at audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-request at audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-owner at audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Thomas Ward) 2. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Thomas Ward) 3. Re: a drastic change is needed for audio games. (Thomas Ward) 4. Re: Monkey business (Castanedagarcia_Alfredo) 5. Re: to Liam (Castanedagarcia_Alfredo) 6. Re: Monkey Business (Castanedagarcia_Alfredo) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 02:59:42 -0400 From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Yohandy, For the most part I do agree with your comments below, and as someone who has played several mainstream games over the years I know where you are coming from. However, as a software developer with several years of programming and experience under my belt I have to say your expectations are unrealisticly high. Not saying your ideas and opinions are bad here, but just a bit unrealistic considering the challenges involved in adding voice chat, online pvp play, etc. First of all, the majority of those writing accessible games are not professional programmers. Many have not had any professional training of any kind and are self-taught through books, online tutorials, whatever. Not saying that is bad, but their skills may or may not be up to the challenge of creating something that complex. Like everything else in life if you don't have the necessary training/skills you can't do it. Let me use an example here. PCS Games has created some pretty decent games like Pac-Man Talks and Sarah using the GMA Engine. However, Phil is not a professional programmer, and the extent of his programming per say is limited to scripting the GMA Engine. He can create decent games using that engine, but doesn't have the skills to do what you are talking about on his own. Second of all, there is the issue of time. Since programming games isn't my full time job I don't exactly have all day to spend on writing accessible games. I usually get two or three hours a day tops to work on a game and that is why it is taking me forever to work on a game as relatively simple as Mysteries of the Ancients. The more complex the game the longer it will take. To be blunt about it saying, "take ten years if I have to in order to write a really good game," is easy to say when you aren't the person doing all the work, and have to look at it day in and day out. I'll be honest with you. Not counting my failed attempt at Montezuma's Revenge I've been working on Mysteries of the Ancients for two solid years. At this point I am completely burned out on the game, and down right sick of it. I doubt I can stand to work on it another full year let alone spend something like 10 years on a single project. It simply wouldn't be worth it to me personally. Third, there is the issue of money. When we talk mainstream developers we are talking a team of guys who are getting paid at least $60,000 or more to work on games like that. Not only do they have an entire team to work on the project, thus drastically reducing the time to add features like that, they are getting paid to do it. As for myself there is very little financial income from accessible games as it is let alone working my butt off for practically nothing. Over a 10 year period I could release five or more games for the same length of time It took me to create your so-called 10 year project. That is financially speaking more practical and realistic for me. However, all that said I don't think it would take 10 years to do what you ask. It would take at least a couple of years developing an engine that had the features like voice chat, online pvp play, etc. Once those features were designed into the engine it would be possible to create games like you are talking about. Although, it could get expensive creating such an engine. I don't know if you realised this or not but Philip Bennefall has out sourced certain components of the BGT engine to third-party professional developers. Not only does he get high quality work done, it saves him time, but it also is costing him quite a lot of money in the initial investment. I think that was a great idea, but I know I couldn't do it. I don't have a couple thousand or so to pay up front to another developer to help me develope my software. As far as joining with other accessible game developers again that is problematic. Right now the accessible game developers are all over the map as far as programming languages goes. Blind Adrenaline uses C# and Visual Basic .NET, Jim Kitchen uses Visual Basic 6, 7-128 uses Java, Philip Bennefall is developing his BGT Engine in C++, and I'm skilled in several different programming languages. I'm flexable in terms of programming languages, but I'd personally insist that the project be done in C++ which would immediately eliminate Java, Visual Basic, and the AutoIt developers. That basically leaves me with someone like Josh from Draconis and Philip from Blastbay, and I happen to know they have their own projects right now. So between our own projects and likely different schedules I doubt a colaberation between Blastbay, Draconis, and USA Games would be possible. The one thing I think I could do as a developer, though, is continue to maintain games, adding new levels, adding expantions, etc. For example, when Draconis released the ESP Pinball Party pack for Pinball Extreme that was a great idea in my opinion. They made money on an existing game, and it gave users something new to play even though basically it was the same game with slightly different tables. Other games, GMA Tank Commander, could be similarly expanded. Okay you get the six missions with the original game but if you get the expantion pack you get six extra missions. Now, that would be cool and be worth an extra $10 to $15 to me as a gamer, and I know it wouldn't be hard to create since GMA already has a working game engine. So, yeah, that is something I could do as a developer. As for things like voice chat, online play, we will see. I have to finish my current projects before I even consider adding something like that to my engine, and I'm not sure I really want to. I'm not exactly a big fan of player verses player type game play, I am a loner, so it isn't a feature I would necessarily get much use out of personally. If I add such features like that it will strictly be for the money and not for any personal motivation. Cheers! On 5/27/10, Yohandy wrote: > when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact > that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, > it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up > the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never > gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, > and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't > realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. > mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game > comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the > developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested > will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more > copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, > especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I > don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only > problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component > to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any > developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds > of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible > games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same > offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online > features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game > out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you > busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode > on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys > make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few > audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate > through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even > video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no > developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This > is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I > tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating > on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the "oh but audio > games are only a 1 man operation" excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game > if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming > language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us > something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say > wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands > now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an > hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many > people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, > developers and gamers alike to make it happen! > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 03:20:26 -0400 From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Dark, Very very true. One game you didn't mention that has many advanced features is Rail Racer by Blind Adrenaline. It comes with a track editor which allows you to add an unlimited number of custom tracks to the game. It also allows you to earn virtual money that can be turned in for upgrades for your racer. It has a chat client. Plus online racing with others. I have to say for an accessible game it is getting very very close to what Yohandy is talking about already. Then, there is the card games from the Blind Adrenaline card room. Okay they are simple card games, not quite as advanced as Rail Racer, but they are online games, and are pretty par for mainstream card games only accesssible. So that's just an example of where some developers are already heading. Just we are a few years behind the mainstream I guess. On 5/28/10, dark wrote: > While I appreciate your frustration, I think your assessment that no > developement is being done is, ---- well just plane wrong. > > Even in the five years that I've been playing audio games, I've noticed a > change, larger and more complex games, games with online competition, and > games with user created content. > > As technology improves in developement, so the games will improve, just at a > slower wrate than mainstream ones. > > For a truer comparison, try looking around at some of the independently > produced pc games, ---- look at the Smugglers series for instance, same > number of devs and amount of resources. > > and, as for suggestions, well I do have several, ---- but they're mostly > being taken into considderation already. > > The first, is user created content. level editers, sound editers etc. while > these are harder to produce, they don't half expand the game. For a look at > what effect they can have look at Jim's golf game. > > Many games though, are now doing this extremely, entombed, Rail Racer, time > of conflict sound rts etc. > > If for example shades of doom had an easily usable level creator which would > let you set where the monsters appeared, and make new monsters and items for > the game, ---- well we'd probably see a good few expantions. > > The second thought I have on expantion, is randomness. the more monsters etc > are just placed in one place, the less replay a game has. > > A brilliant example of this is Q9. A simple arcade style game, but you never > know where the monsters will appear, thus making it very fresh to play each > time, ---- ditto with tom's game. > > Another suggestion I have is exploration (especially when combined with > randomness as in entombed). The more area in a game you need to explore, the > longer it'll take you to finish. > > A final thought is using the online play we have. Afterall, Toc will be far > more interesting when it's possible to play against a number of humans than > against the computer. This might not be super fast voice chat, ---- but it > does the job, and provides a varied playing experience, particularly in > games like stratogy games where there is considderable variation in a > players' possible actions. > > Luckily though, these are all trends which are actually being expanded upon > anyway, and probably will continue to be in the future. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 03:34:58 -0400 From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 00:50:50 -0700 From: Castanedagarcia_Alfredo To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Monkey business Message-ID: <768A1798BAA9C141974271AE1F3B2DF48CF2C4D624 at HILLEMBA.HILLNET.ad.hsd.k12.or.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sig_name="Best regards,; Char=return; Sig_name="Hayden. I already listened to it, but I cannot find what I woant. I wonder why KSapergia is the type who does not like to reveal things in reviews? Alfredo ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 00:58:28 -0700 From: Castanedagarcia_Alfredo To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] to Liam Message-ID: <768A1798BAA9C141974271AE1F3B2DF48CF2C4D625 at HILLEMBA.HILLNET.ad.hsd.k12.or.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alfredo C. Garcia ________________________________________ From: gamers-bounces at audyssey.org [gamers-bounces at audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley [hdpresley at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 6:40 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: [Audyssey] to Liam Hi Liam, It is impossible to visit the scoreboards page as you get this error when going to it: Parse error: syntax error, unexpected '<' in /home1/lworksne/public_html/scores.php on line 2 Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 01:01:20 -0700 From: Castanedagarcia_Alfredo To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Monkey Business Message-ID: <768A1798BAA9C141974271AE1F3B2DF48CF2C4D626 at HILLEMBA.HILLNET.ad.hsd.k12.or.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Where is there review. Under the products? I remember how it used to be called ESP softworks. Is the game still on sale? Alfredo ------------------------------ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. End of Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 193 *************************************** -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From herekittykat2 at gmail.com Fri May 28 16:17:41 2010 From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel S.) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 12:17:41 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries In-Reply-To: References: <73304901DAE64B70B0D215D47D2F543C@userf9b4fa60eb> <436839.88843.qm@web113816.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <69D78BB4888D469F9DC5B2CD5996D6AB@Rufus> Message-ID: If you are registered with the BARD website, then you can download your books no matter where you are, so a U.S. citizen living abroad (having registered while in the U.S.) or on vacation would be able to download books from the BARD website no matter where they are, as long as they have an internet connection. Other countries have their own audible book program. I think it should be allowed that people of other countries could download books from other countries' programs for a per-book fee or an annual subscription fee, provided they are registered with their home country's program (have to be blind or physically handicapped) and provided they meet that country's requirements (for example, in one country, legal blindness may be 20/100 and in the U.S. it is 20/200, or another country may allow legal blindness include blind in one eye...these people would not be eligible for the U.S. program, however). Does this make sense? ~Jewel On 5/27/10, David Andrews wrote: > International copyright is a real can of worms -- but it is being > worked on, so I think we could see some movement in the next few years. > > Dave > > At 11:41 AM 5/27/2010, you wrote: >>I wish NLS would collaborate with some international body to make the >>content available to people from other countries. It's a fine collection >> of >>books, and literature should not be limited to a specific country simply >>because we have the money to make it happen and others don't. But, perhaps >>another rant for another day. For the moment I am very appreciative that >> we >>at least have this service available to us. >> >>Joe >> >>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >>[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Max-Faults >>Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:17 AM >>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >> >> >> >> >> >>It does seem justified that NLS services are only available >>to US citizens. However, I'm wondering about US citizens >>abroad, such as someone >>on vacation or study abroad? Does anyone know? >> >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Steven >> >>Steven Max-Faults >> >> >> >>SteveMax83 at yahoo.com >> >>917-865-6953 (Mobile) >> >>--- On Thu, 5/27/10, Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> wrote: >> >>From: Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" >> >>Date: Thursday, May 27, 2010, 2:35 AM >> >>Joe, and Dave, >> >>Correct, >> >>U.S. citizens can download, and otherwise utilize NLS services, >>but not anyone in the world is allowed such access. >> >>Seems a justified policy to me, since the NLS program is funded >>by U.S. $s. >> >>Antonio M. Guimaraes Jr. >> >>Student, Western Governors University >>(617) 744-9716 >>Eastern time zone >>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Andrews" >>To: ; "National Association of Blind >>Students mailing list" >>Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:57 PM >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NLS Accessibility in Other Countries >> >> >> > Joe: >> > >> > I don't specifically know -- you could ask at >>NLSDownload at loc.gov as they do support for BARD. I would guess >>that if the person was a U.S. citizen, and registered with NLS, >>and in good standing, they could download. But it is not being >>offered to people who are citizens of other countries. >> > >> > Dave >> > >> > At 05:06 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> Does anyone know if there are any provisions for people to >>download NLS >> >> books who do not live in the United States? I vaguely >>remember there being >> >> some kind of international program for this purpose. I'm >>trying to find >> >> something for someone who'd like to access books from the >>BARD database. >> >> Thanks for any help.--Joe >> > >> > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com >> > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 >> > > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com > Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com > From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 16:35:05 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 12:35:05 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for audio games Message-ID: <4BFFF0B9.3000104@gmail.com> Hi lets get the national federation of the blind, and american counsil of the blind involved. they got money, they can get the laws changed. Josh -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 28 16:39:57 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:39:57 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Announcing GotNET Message-ID: >Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:02:23 -0400 (EDT) >From: Jamal Mazrui >Subject: Announcing GotNET > >The .NET Framework is a strong choice for software application >developers. It has a comprehensive, consistent, and generally >well-documented class library that is free to use in any >project. Depending on personal preferences, one can code in C#, >Visual Basic, JScript, F#, IronPython, IronRuby, or other >languages. Programs may be built with either integrated development >environments, or with text editors and command-line compilers. > >The .NET Framework integrates two major accessibility APIs: the >older, Microsoft Active Accessibility (MSAA), and the newer, User >Interface Automation (UIA). While Gaps remain, there is much >accessibility support for both developers and users of this >platform. People with disabilities can thereby be involved in both >the development and use of .NET-based applications. > >The Microsoft accessibility development center is at >http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/bb735024.aspx > >Some open source, .NET accessibility tools may be found there, as >well as with a Google search like >site:codeplex.com accessibility > >One potential obstacle is that clients may not have the version of >the .NET Framework already installed that an application needs. I >found a good solution for this problem with Version 2.0 of the .NET >Framework, using the Microsoft Component Installer Software >Development Kit, available at >http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2A5E4EBC-651C-40AA-9525-1810AF47C317&displaylang=en > >However, I could not find a free, sufficiently automated solution >for later versions of the Framework. GotNET is a free, open source >program I have developed in attempt to address this need. It can >check whether the most common versions of the .NET Framework are >installed, and do so for one or more of them via the Internet if not >found: version 2.0, 3.5, or 4.0 (released last month). > >An executable installer for GotNET is available at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/netsetup.exe > >Alternatively, a zip archive for manual installation is available at >http://EmpowermentZone.com/netsetup.zip > >End users may run the GotNET installer to ensure they have .NET >available for any applications that may need it. More importantly, >the GotNET.exe utility in the distribution is available for .NET >developers to bundle with their applications, thereby ensuring that >necessary prerequisites are installed. > >Jamal > > > > >__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >signature database 5153 (20100528) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > >http://www.eset.com > > David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 18:26:21 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:26:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AUDIO GAMES Message-ID: <4C000ACD.6030508@gmail.com> hI So I think at national convention, even though I cannot attend, someone should bring this up. with the nfb and ACB working on it together maybe we can get laws passed that will require the big gaame companies to make their games accessible by blind and visually impaired folks. Josh -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jkenn337 at gmail.com Fri May 28 18:28:30 2010 From: jkenn337 at gmail.com (Josh) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:28:30 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 199 Message-ID: <4C000B4E.4020808@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 199 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 11:06:07 -0700 From: gamers-request at audyssey.org Reply-To: gamers at audyssey.org To: gamers at audyssey.org Send Gamers mailing list submissions to gamers at audyssey.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to gamers-request at audyssey.org You can reach the person managing the list at gamers-owner at audyssey.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: drastic change for audio games (Thomas Ward) 2. Re: drastic change for audio games (Thomas Ward) 3. The other side was drastic change for audio games (Ron Schamerhorn) 4. Re: drastic change for audio games (Thomas Ward) 5. Friday's Out of Sight events (Charles Rivard) 6. Re: drastic change for audio games (David Mehler) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 13:10:47 -0400 From: Thomas Ward To: Charles Rivard, Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] drastic change for audio games Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Thanks Charles. I'm glad to see a little common sense on this list besides myself. I'm really growing a bit sick of the people who want to complain about the way things are, make it sound so easy to fix, but when it comes down to doing something about it they are just hot air. If Josh really wants to see the laws changed why doesn't he go to court and file a suit against any game company he chooses to take to court. Why doesn't he fly to Washington, higher a lawyer, and go to Congress with his ideas. If it is so easy to do I want to see him do it. Show us how he plans to over come all the usual problems of money, influence, and on what legal grounds can he make his case. Same goes for the gamers on this list who want games equal to Street Fighter 4 or anything like that. I've got a very good suggestion for them. Please, take a few programming courses, spend a couple thousand for a high quality sound library, pay money for any tools/libraries they need, and come back in five years or so and let us know how well work on Accessible Street Fighter is coming along. I bet it will be a much bigger task than they could ever have imagined possible. Still according to them it is easy right? So show me how easy it is. On 5/28/10, Charles Rivard wrote: > How do you plan to change laws that big business game corporations do not > want changed? They have the clout and man power to keep things just as they > want them. They also have the money to apply influence. And that's just > one of the many hurdles to jump, and it's a huge one! Saying what you think > has to be done is very easy. Getting those things done is quite another. > Go ahead and pick any of your suggestions as to what needs to be done, work > on it, and let us know how you're progressing. Thanks. > --- > In God we trust. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 13:27:44 -0400 From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] drastic change for audio games Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Exactly. There also is no such thing as a standard programming language. A lot of it comes down to what you need the language to do as much as personal preference. If there was such a thing as a standard programming language, one that could do everything wee need, there wouldn't be so many of them to choose from. Case in point. Most professional game studios write their games in C++. Through a lot of personal research I've found C++ is in deed the best language of choice for designing vidio games, but however it does come at the price of added time and complexity. Newer rapid development languages like Microsoft's C# .NET are so much easier to use, handles things like strings better, etc but at the price of a bunch of extra dependencies like the .NET Framework, XNA Framework, and other .NET components that may or may not be present on your Windows operating system. There are good solid arguments to go either way. On 5/28/10, Bryan Peterson wrote: > That's the point Josh. Mainstream game designers have enough clout to see > that, barring more or less divine intervention, the law won't be changing > anytime soon, and certainly not without more money than we can afford to > fork over. As for the standard programming language, that's also not going > to happen since each developer has the language that he or she is most > familiar and comfortable with. So as much as I hate to say it, this probably > isn't going to happen. > We are the Knights who say...Ni! ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 13:44:38 -0400 From: "Ron Schamerhorn" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Subject: [Audyssey] The other side was drastic change for audio games Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello all Okay here I go wading in to the optomistic side of such a discussion. True our community lags behind the mainstream market when it comes to gaming. The points on this have been made by others so I won't repeat them here. What I would like to point out to everyone is rather the achievements which have been made in accessible gaming. SOD was quite a pioneering venture at the time, nothing like it had been attempted before. We have online play against other people with titles like Sound RTS, Rail Racer. Chatting [granted it's text] with RR, All In Play, Expansions and improvements it's covered with ongoing updates from Final conflict, and the Pinball party pack. User creation TOC, and it looks as though Entombed will soon have such a feature. Other devs continue to improve their games, squashing bugs or improving aspects of the game. The point I really would like to drive home here is that we've damnwell come a long way in a much shorter period of time then mainstream. Pong, or the old console TeleStar, even the Atari 2600. That is surely the 70's/80's. Our devs have only been going at this for what? The answer being about 15 years give or take. This compares with 30 or so? I believe the gaming for the blind has moved alot quicker in the overall scheme of things. I suggest instead of always looking at what isn't there, look upon the distance which has been covered in such a short period of time. Before it's said yes there is lots of room for improvement. I believe it will happen, but there will be some time taken for this evolution. One last point online scoreboards. It didn't take long for those to happen. Overall I'd rather encourage the inovation and envolope pushing of all accessible devs rather then pointing out the shortcomings. Thanks for reading Ron P.S. see other arguements on things like budgets, teams and such. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 13:46:22 -0400 From: Thomas Ward To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] drastic change for audio games Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Dark, Agreed. If we have to compare audio games to something let us try and compare them to the small independant mainstream game market for the PC. Although, it might be challenging it is at least something a one to three man operation can achieve realistically. Those small companies aren't trying to beat out Capcom or Nintendo, and neither should we. If we have to use Nintendo or somebody as a standard then let's aim for the quality and standards of say the Super NES era. While old by mainstream standards it would be extremely high considering the majority of accessible games. there is nothing wrong with games like Super Donkey Kong, Super Castlevania, Megaman, and other games of that era. Even now I find games like that enjoyable, and my wife and son enjoy them too. Just because something is old and isn't the latest and greatest doesn't make it necessarily bad. As you mentioned yourself Chess is very old, but is still one of the most enjoyable board games around. The rules haven't changed in 800 years or something like that. Should we now decide that it is old and add new pieces, create a larger board, change the rules, etc just because it hasn't been updated in so long? Of course not. Same holds true for vidio games. Just because Super Castlevania is old doesn't mean it is necessarily bad. It is true that it can't quite compare to newer encarnations like the later roll playing Castlevania games, but it still deserves to be considered a good game in its own right. Judge it for the quality it is rather than trying to judge it soully on what it lacks compared to modern games. Smile. On 5/28/10, dark wrote: > Again Josh, who! is going to do all this? > > Changing the law is a long and complex pprocess, and as I said, is dmnably > difficult when someone with big big money has a vested interest in the law > being otherwise. > > Then, "just get" ppeople toc ollaborate in that way on a game is, as Tom > ward said, far easier said than done. > > if you have the odd 500 k dollars floating around you might employ a bunch > of developers for a couple of years who will work full time, get enough > resources in terms of sound libraries, necessary third party developement > components etc, and perhaps come up with a game of similar quality to sf 4 > etc. > > As for the modification of a console, ---- see the above mentioning of law, > then apply the word license, ditto with publicity, ---- heck, i can't even > raise the thousand pounds or so it'd take for me to go to the site village > exhibition as a representative of audiogames.net > > This is why I strongly suggest that people, instead of considdering audio > games comapred to the mainstream console markit, considder the independently > produced pc games which have been built with similar amounts of resources, > time and man power. > > yes, audio games are stil behind in this respect, but the gap is > changing, ---- especially with games like time of conflict, rail racer and > entombed, and establishing a core of highly playable pc games with replay, > expantion and variety is I think a far more realistic aime than trying to > beat sony or nintendo. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 21:09:37 -0500 From: "Charles Rivard" To: Subject: [Audyssey] Friday's Out of Sight events Message-ID:<1CA0A974B09A4C7299484D901DA7508B at charlescd60016> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original The Out of Sight main site is at: http://www.out-of-sight.net Good morning gang! New Game Hosts! First of all, we would like to thank Lyn so much for her two years of hosting our On Stage and Memory Lane events! We can't thank you enough Lyn, and hope to see you soon! Second, two lovely ladies have graciously agreed to host these events, and they are: Suzy B. to host Memory Lane, beginning tonight, and Lisa filroy will host On Stage beginning on Saturday. Thank you ladies for volunteering to take over these very popular events! Cancellation: Trivial Pursuit is cancelled for this Saturday. In its place, Shelley will host her chain Reaction game for one hour, from 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM eastern. Thank you Shelley. Here are the events scheduled for Friday, May 28th: Word Burst 6:00 PM eastern Hosted by Kathy Mertz Location: Games Anyone Do you love to play Outburst? Do you love words? Let's put the two together and play Word Burst! Word Burst is the same as Outburst, except that you don't call out items in categories, such as Elvis hits or makes of cars. Instead, the members of each team call out anagrams of the word I will give you. So come in and find the words within a word. Hope to see you there. God's Praise and Worship Hour 7:00 PM eastern Hosted by Diane Location: How Great Thou Art Hi everyone come and join me, Diane, known as Live by Faith, for God's Praise and Worship hour from 7:00 to 8:00 PM eastern, on Fridays. We can come together and listen to a selection of songs that I have created to praise and worship God. Look forward to seeing you there. Be blessed! Memory Lane 8:00 PM eastern Hosted by Suzy B. Location: Out of Sight Presents Would you like to know more about your friends here on Out of Sight? Do you wonder what caused their blindness? Would you like to know about their passions? What careers they've had throughout life? If so, let's take a trip down Memory Lane. This event will be held on the fourth Friday evening of every month. Come on in and get to know a fellow Out of Sight member! This month's featured guest is: James Clayton, aka Plowboy! Have a wonderful holiday weekend! ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:06:03 -0400 From: David Mehler To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] drastic change for audio games Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I'd like to chime in my two cents on this issue. This is just my opinion take it for what it's worth. First of all, i agree with everything regarding the difficulty of changing a law. If your an individual, frankly forget it. NFB, ACB, and AFB, they won't take on a single person's task, casen point I had $5000+ worth of assistive technology in a bag illegally seized and destroyed, the perpetrators just lied to an official investigation and i'm still out. I took the situation to both the state and national NFB and ACB, neither would assist me. My point is unless it's an issue effecting the as Thomas put it 80%+ of blind individuals it's not financially feasible for them to do so. Frankly, it's rubbish, but it's also reality. As far as the issue of games vs. books I really don't see where we're doing so great in the books category either. Please don't take this next comment as a slight on bookshare, for it certainly is not and is not intended to be, I am a bookshare member myself and enjoy the service having also recommended it to several friends. I'm going to speak of college textbooks, and while it's true bookshare does have some, they don't have all, and they don't have the fifth edition of x book but only the third, whereas the profesor wants edition five and won't consent to you having an older edition of the book, forget the fact that 90% of the text probably hasn't changed. To get it in an accessible format, last time I went through college, I had to pay the full price for a print book just to take that to disability services, said sarcastically, just so they not me could contact the publisher and get that book on disk, the publisher won't talk to me directly. And does it come in that day, oh no, six weeks. I hope this has changed. Sorry, i didn't mean to get on a soap box with that last one, but it iritates me when people say things are easy to do and they are not. Collaboration, as Thomas mentioned there are Linux utilities out there that can do source code control but there are also windows equivalents. I would recommend a source code control system such as cvs or subversion for any project whether it's a single individual, or two or more in a collaborative effort. As for setting up a web site that's easy enough to do, paypal donations are no problem, i'm doing both of those at the moment, the point is there are ways to make it all come together. Skype for example can be used for computer to computer calls if there's a time zone difference between developers or long distance charges are a concern. It is possible in my opinion for two or more individuals to work on games, as for standardized language I don't think there is one, but if both developers are confident and competent with C++ for example, use that as your standardized language. Just my two cents. Dave. On 5/28/10, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Dark, > Agreed. If we have to compare audio games to something let us try and > compare them to the small independant mainstream game market for the > PC. Although, it might be challenging it is at least something a one > to three man operation can achieve realistically. Those small > companies aren't trying to beat out Capcom or Nintendo, and neither > should we. > If we have to use Nintendo or somebody as a standard then let's aim > for the quality and standards of say the Super NES era. While old by > mainstream standards it would be extremely high considering the > majority of accessible games. there is nothing wrong with games like > Super Donkey Kong, Super Castlevania, Megaman, and other games of that > era. Even now I find games like that enjoyable, and my wife and son > enjoy them too. Just because something is old and isn't the latest > and greatest doesn't make it necessarily bad. > As you mentioned yourself Chess is very old, but is still one of the > most enjoyable board games around. The rules haven't changed in 800 > years or something like that. Should we now decide that it is old and > add new pieces, create a larger board, change the rules, etc just > because it hasn't been updated in so long? Of course not. > Same holds true for vidio games. Just because Super Castlevania is old > doesn't mean it is necessarily bad. It is true that it can't quite > compare to newer encarnations like the later roll playing Castlevania > games, but it still deserves to be considered a good game in its own > right. Judge it for the quality it is rather than trying to judge it > soully on what it lacks compared to modern games. > > Smile. > > > On 5/28/10, dark wrote: >> Again Josh, who! is going to do all this? >> >> Changing the law is a long and complex pprocess, and as I said, is dmnably >> difficult when someone with big big money has a vested interest in the law >> being otherwise. >> >> Then, "just get" ppeople toc ollaborate in that way on a game is, as Tom >> ward said, far easier said than done. >> >> if you have the odd 500 k dollars floating around you might employ a bunch >> of developers for a couple of years who will work full time, get enough >> resources in terms of sound libraries, necessary third party developement >> components etc, and perhaps come up with a game of similar quality to sf 4 >> etc. >> >> As for the modification of a console, ---- see the above mentioning of >> law, >> then apply the word license, ditto with publicity, ---- heck, i can't even >> raise the thousand pounds or so it'd take for me to go to the site village >> exhibition as a representative of audiogames.net >> >> This is why I strongly suggest that people, instead of considdering audio >> games comapred to the mainstream console markit, considder the >> independently >> produced pc games which have been built with similar amounts of resources, >> time and man power. >> >> yes, audio games are stil behind in this respect, but the gap is >> changing, ---- especially with games like time of conflict, rail racer and >> entombed, and establishing a core of highly playable pc games with replay, >> expantion and variety is I think a far more realistic aime than trying to >> beat sony or nintendo. >> >> Beware the grue! >> >> Dark. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. > ------------------------------ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers at audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe at audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers at audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to Gamers-owner at audyssey.org. End of Gamers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 199 *************************************** -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri May 28 19:01:21 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 15:01:21 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games In-Reply-To: <399E4B5D-EB04-4B6F-A24C-41A1FA0CB2BB@gmail.com> References: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> <399E4B5D-EB04-4B6F-A24C-41A1FA0CB2BB@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've found my own preferred online strategy game which I've enjoyed playing alongside sighted people. I e-mailed the developer to give him my complements, and even though he did not take accessibility into account when writing the program, he is now taking accessibility into account when he releases the next version. In general though I have found that writing to companies and complementing their efforts really is a big boost for their morale and helps them continue to make their products screen reader-friendly. It's one method I hope to put a tiny dent in this over-priced adaptive technology market. Best, Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:26 AM To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games YAY, fellow gamer! :D I totally aggre with you. But just as annoying as it is for me to not be able to go out anb buy the same games my friends are playing, it's equally, if not more, frustrating to play a multi-user dungeon with NOTHING but blind people on there. I only say that because: 1. My sighted friends don't seem to understand teh concept of muds, which is odd considering all their visual online games came from the MUD. 2. The blind community is smal in comparison to the rest of the world, and the game world is smaller in comparison to the RL world. These two things combined is an ideal breeding ground for dramma caused by people who can't separate RL from RP (traditional or "hack and slash"). And now that i've vented, i just hav eto say that i think bridging the gap would be ideal, so that sighted people could fight alongside the blind players in a MUD, or, so that we may venture into the world of warcraft, secondlife, etc without thinking, "oh, this is a game for blind people". One final thought, I am sort of impressed at some of these browser based games out there, that are completely acccesible to the blind, and yo have mostly sighted players, compared to the mud, which is more complex in my oppinon. On May 28, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Josh wrote: > Hi, > > As I said before, first we gotta change the law. second, decide on a standard for audio game programming. third, make a good solid game company, made of multiple people, assigned their own task or tasks to make game creation more effective. perhaps collaborate through skype and dropbox. next change the law so games in a specialised format for people with disabilities may include sounds story lines plots music and characters from video games as longg as the game is in a specialised format for people who are blind visually impaired or similar disability that prevents them from playing that brand new accessible video game console. > now, when the company has enough money, the company should save some. now use that money to develop your own game console, or take a standard console, re-flash and modify it for accessibility by disabled people. now go to game conventions and show off your new game console. eventually my brother and sister's generation, and even my generation will get old, lose eye-sight, and won't be able to play their favorite video games. so lets make a kind of national library or international library service nls for video games in specialised format. Sorry guys I'm not a programmer, just putting out ideas. now to make a great game, lets compare it to a book. a sighted person can go out and read a harry potter book, get it in print, I can sit down beside that person with my audio book or braille book from nls and read it, talk about and enjoy it along with my sighted friend. so lets incorporate that into games. first, lets put games on instead lets put them on blueray disks, lots of space, or maybe 32gig flash drives, read only flash memory. lots of room there to store data. when a blind person wants to play a game with his or her sighted friend, the person plugs headphones in, the game turns on accessibility mode when the console detects headphones plugged in. Point is we can't have one guy here and another there trying to do it on their own. a company, an organised company has to be started with both short and longterm goals. laws gotta be changed so we can make and sell good high quality games, we gotta take our games to the conventions and really mount a presence there. weneed the nfb and ACB both involved in this. who cares if you like them or hate them point is they're a big big organizations and they can help! > but will they? > now if blind people can help design accessible games, game consoles, and the like, working for soni or EA-games that'd be great! for too long here is how we made games. on guy starts a game company, uses visual basic, another starts his own company uses a different language and another and another. most of these die very fast because its usually too much work for one guy to make a really good game or he doesn't have the skills. we gotta organise, and either push game companiess to include accessibility, or organise and make one or two big game companies, have a standard, assign tasks, make our own or modify existing game consoles for accessibility. not only will it be enjoyable for the player but it'll make new jobs available, and let the sighted community know by our presence at gaming conventions that we want to be included in the video game fun as well. > > Josh > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka yla%40gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From jsorozco at gmail.com Fri May 28 19:48:04 2010 From: jsorozco at gmail.com (Joe Orozco) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 15:48:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] AUDIO GAMES In-Reply-To: <4C000ACD.6030508@gmail.com> References: <4C000ACD.6030508@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think the NFB has already taken a good step toward this with the Technology Bill of Rights. It does not specifically highlight accessible games, but rather, technology in general. Games are good stuff, but tending to one area could have a nice ripple affect. Joe "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Josh Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:26 PM To: nabs-l list Subject: [nabs-l] AUDIO GAMES hI So I think at national convention, even though I cannot attend, someone should bring this up. with the nfb and ACB working on it together maybe we can get laws passed that will require the big gaame companies to make their games accessible by blind and visually impaired folks. Josh -- Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco %40gmail.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Fri May 28 20:42:02 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:42:02 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for audio games In-Reply-To: <4BFFF0B9.3000104@gmail.com> References: <4BFFF0B9.3000104@gmail.com> Message-ID: Can they? I mean...I'd be totally on board, but there are lots of issues which seem more important to work on right now. (distribution of accessible textbooks to people who need them, quiet cars, teaching braille to everyone who needs it, getting enough O&m instructors with quality training, etc) Don't get me wrong- I love computer games! But I think the consumer advocacy organizations have lots of other stuff to worry about. Again, I'd love to see the NFB and ACB get involved, but I think it's kind of low on the priority list right now. On 5/28/10, Josh wrote: > Hi > > lets get the national federation of the blind, and american counsil of > the blind involved. they got money, they can get the laws changed. > > Josh > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From dandrews at visi.com Fri May 28 21:20:06 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:20:06 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Dow Jones job: Student Intern - (000100970) Message-ID: >From: "Dick Davis" >To: "'Jobs for the Blind'" >Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 14:18:09 -0500 >Subject: [Jobs] FW: Dow Jones job: Student Intern - (000100970) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: compliance_boards at equest.com [mailto:compliance_boards at equest.com] >Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:48 AM >To: compliance_boards at equest.com >Subject: Dow Jones job: Student Intern - (000100970) > >Dow Jones: Student Intern - (000100970) > > > EQUEST CUSTOMER: > DowJones > > > Job Information and Destination Details: > > JOB APPLY URL: > http://ars2.equest.com/?response_id=3a1188f7c14b1ae50e8a9c6704f9cd55 > > COMPANY NAME: > Dow Jones > > JOB TITLE: > Student Intern > > COMPANY DESCRIPTION: > > > > > DESCRIPTION/RESPONSIBILITIES: > Dow Jones, a News Corporation company, is a leader in news and business >information world-wide. From 58 countries, in a dozen languages and through >newswires, Web sites, newspapers, newsletters, magazines, radio and >television, we inform and inspire audiences with authoritative, >differentiated and trusted content. We are The Wall Street Journal, Dow >Jones Newswires, Factiva, Barron's, MarketWatch, SmartMoney and other >specialized news and information products. We inform the discussions and >decisions of the world and develop technology to transform information into >insight. > >Dow Jones is seeking a summer intern to assist with development of web site >for Dow Jones Widget Library and mobile strategy. > >Required Skills: > >HTML, CSS, JavaScript, ASP.NET, C#. >College Students and entry level canddidates are welcome to apply > > > REQUIRED SKILLS: > STUDENT INTERN > > > > BENEFITS: > > > > INDUSTRY: Publishing, Media and Advertising > JOB CATEGORY: Secretarial > v2 JOB CATEGORY: Secretaries and Administrative Assistants > EMPLOYMENT TYPE: CONTRACT > FULLTIME/PARTTIME: PARTTIME > JOB PAYMENT: > SALARY RANGE: 0 - 0 > > % TRAVEL INCLUDED: 0 > % TELECOMMUTE: 0 > JOB START DATE: > JOB END DATE: > EDUCATION: > > --LOCATION OF JOB-- > > COUNTRY: USA > STATE/PROVINCE: MN > CITY: Minneapolis > ZIP CODE: 55401 > JOB# (REQUISITION NO): 000100970 > > --ADDITIONAL INFO-- > > OPENINGS: 1 > WORKHOURS: 40 David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Fri May 28 22:17:06 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:17:06 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Ray McGeorge Update Message-ID: Greetings Friends: Ray McGeorge remains in stable condition today unchanged from my last report. The news is that he is being moved from ICU to a long term acute care hospital called Kindred Hospital here in Denver. The hospital is close to Diane and Ray's home. They will continue to treat Ray and slowly remove him from the respirator. This is another step in the right direction because they would not allow the move unless he were stable enough to tollerate it. Keep those thoughts and prayers coming. Have a wonderful holiday weekend. We will keep everyone posted as to Ray's progress. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri May 28 23:02:39 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 19:02:39 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games In-Reply-To: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> References: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000D4B96-0CD7-4E14-AEDB-B74B6B21AF2E@gmail.com> There are several games available for modern video consoles that are accessible to us because of their use of positional audio. With headphones on, it's actually possible to play them. An other important thing is that most console remotes have a vibrator, which can vibrate at different amplitudes. For example I remember a PlayStation 1 game called Teken 3. The amplitude of a vibration was different when you hit your opponent and when you got hit, which basically allowed a blind person to play. I bit many sighted people on that game, and finished it in arcade mode many times. You just need to have the patience and the time to figure out which games are playable by us and which games aren't. In my case I found a very nice guy at the store. He would let me buy a game and exchange it if after a couple of weeks I saw that it wasn't accessible. He even took care of making a list of all games that I found to be accessible, in case an other blind customer comes by. We rarely get to find such efficient employees, but they exist... IC On May 28, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Josh wrote: > Hi, > > As I said before, first we gotta change the law. second, decide on a standard for audio game programming. third, make a good solid game company, made of multiple people, assigned their own task or tasks to make game creation more effective. perhaps collaborate through skype and dropbox. next change the law so games in a specialised format for people with disabilities may include sounds story lines plots music and characters from video games as longg as the game is in a specialised format for people who are blind visually impaired or similar disability that prevents them from playing that brand new accessible video game console. > now, when the company has enough money, the company should save some. now use that money to develop your own game console, or take a standard console, re-flash and modify it for accessibility by disabled people. now go to game conventions and show off your new game console. eventually my brother and sister's generation, and even my generation will get old, lose eye-sight, and won't be able to play their favorite video games. so lets make a kind of national library or international library service nls for video games in specialised format. Sorry guys I'm not a programmer, just putting out ideas. now to make a great game, lets compare it to a book. a sighted person can go out and read a harry potter book, get it in print, I can sit down beside that person with my audio book or braille book from nls and read it, talk about and enjoy it along with my sighted friend. so lets incorporate that into games. first, lets put games on instead lets put them on blueray disks, lots of space, or maybe 32gig flash drives, read only flash memory. lots of room there to store data. when a blind person wants to play a game with his or her sighted friend, the person plugs headphones in, the game turns on accessibility mode when the console detects headphones plugged in. Point is we can't have one guy here and another there trying to do it on their own. a company, an organised company has to be started with both short and longterm goals. laws gotta be changed so we can make and sell good high quality games, we gotta take our games to the conventions and really mount a presence there. weneed the nfb and ACB both involved in this. who cares if you like them or hate them point is they're a big big organizations and they can help! > but will they? > now if blind people can help design accessible games, game consoles, and the like, working for soni or EA-games that'd be great! for too long here is how we made games. on guy starts a game company, uses visual basic, another starts his own company uses a different language and another and another. most of these die very fast because its usually too much work for one guy to make a really good game or he doesn't have the skills. we gotta organise, and either push game companiess to include accessibility, or organise and make one or two big game companies, have a standard, assign tasks, make our own or modify existing game consoles for accessibility. not only will it be enjoyable for the player but it'll make new jobs available, and let the sighted community know by our presence at gaming conventions that we want to be included in the video game fun as well. > > Josh > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > -- > Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From ignasicambra at gmail.com Fri May 28 23:07:06 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 19:07:06 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games In-Reply-To: References: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> <399E4B5D-EB04-4B6F-A24C-41A1FA0CB2BB@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1FB3C533-E0B4-415F-89B5-690B09F88331@gmail.com> I agree. Especially when it comes to open source software, I find that developers are willing to improve accessibility if one approaches them with a positive attitude. It's useless to tell them "you didn't do this and that". If you tell them that their software is great, but this and that are missing for it to be fully accessible, they will generally listen. On May 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > I've found my own preferred online strategy game which I've enjoyed playing > alongside sighted people. I e-mailed the developer to give him my > complements, and even though he did not take accessibility into account when > writing the program, he is now taking accessibility into account when he > releases the next version. In general though I have found that writing to > companies and complementing their efforts really is a big boost for their > morale and helps them continue to make their products screen > reader-friendly. It's one method I hope to put a tiny dent in this > over-priced adaptive technology market. > > Best, > > Joe > > "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, > some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing > > -----Original Message----- > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org > [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson > Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:26 AM > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games > > YAY, fellow gamer! :D > > I totally aggre with you. But just as annoying as it is for me > to not be able to go out anb buy the same games my friends are > playing, it's equally, if not more, frustrating to play a > multi-user dungeon with NOTHING but blind people on there. I > only say that because: > 1. My sighted friends don't seem to understand teh concept of > muds, which is odd considering all their visual online games > came from the MUD. > 2. The blind community is smal in comparison to the rest of > the world, and the game world is smaller in comparison to the > RL world. These two things combined is an ideal breeding ground > for dramma caused by people who can't separate RL from RP > (traditional or "hack and slash"). > > And now that i've vented, i just hav eto say that i think > bridging the gap would be ideal, so that sighted people could > fight alongside the blind players in a MUD, or, so that we may > venture into the world of warcraft, secondlife, etc without > thinking, "oh, this is a game for blind people". > > One final thought, I am sort of impressed at some of these > browser based games out there, that are completely acccesible > to the blind, and yo have mostly sighted players, compared to > the mud, which is more complex in my oppinon. > On May 28, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Josh wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> As I said before, first we gotta change the law. second, > decide on a standard for audio game programming. third, make a > good solid game company, made of multiple people, assigned > their own task or tasks to make game creation more effective. > perhaps collaborate through skype and dropbox. next change the > law so games in a specialised format for people with > disabilities may include sounds story lines plots music and > characters from video games as longg as the game is in a > specialised format for people who are blind visually impaired > or similar disability that prevents them from playing that > brand new accessible video game console. >> now, when the company has enough money, the company should > save some. now use that money to develop your own game console, > or take a standard console, re-flash and modify it for > accessibility by disabled people. now go to game conventions > and show off your new game console. eventually my brother and > sister's generation, and even my generation will get old, lose > eye-sight, and won't be able to play their favorite video > games. so lets make a kind of national library or international > library service nls for video games in specialised format. > Sorry guys I'm not a programmer, just putting out ideas. now to > make a great game, lets compare it to a book. a sighted person > can go out and read a harry potter book, get it in print, I can > sit down beside that person with my audio book or braille book > from nls and read it, talk about and enjoy it along with my > sighted friend. so lets incorporate that into games. first, > lets put games on instead lets put them on blueray disks, lots > of space, or maybe 32gig flash drives, read only flash memory. > lots of room there to store data. when a blind person wants to > play a game with his or her sighted friend, the person plugs > headphones in, the game turns on accessibility mode when the > console detects headphones plugged in. Point is we can't have > one guy here and another there trying to do it on their own. a > company, an organised company has to be started with both short > and longterm goals. laws gotta be changed so we can make and > sell good high quality games, we gotta take our games to the > conventions and really mount a presence there. weneed the nfb > and ACB both involved in this. who cares if you like them or > hate them point is they're a big big organizations and they can help! >> but will they? >> now if blind people can help design accessible games, game > consoles, and the like, working for soni or EA-games that'd be > great! for too long here is how we made games. on guy starts a > game company, uses visual basic, another starts his own company > uses a different language and another and another. most of > these die very fast because its usually too much work for one > guy to make a really good game or he doesn't have the skills. > we gotta organise, and either push game companiess to include > accessibility, or organise and make one or two big game > companies, have a standard, assign tasks, make our own or > modify existing game consoles for accessibility. not only will > it be enjoyable for the player but it'll make new jobs > available, and let the sighted community know by our presence > at gaming conventions that we want to be included in the video > game fun as well. >> >> Josh >> >> -- >> Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com >> >> -- >> Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: >> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka > yla%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account > info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco > %40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From slabarre at labarrelaw.com Sat May 29 00:24:25 2010 From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 19:24:25 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Ray McGeorge Update Message-ID: Greetings Friends: Ray McGeorge remains in stable condition today unchanged from my last report. The news is that he is being moved from ICU to a long term acute care hospital called Kindred Hospital here in Denver. The hospital is close to Diane and Ray's home. They will continue to treat Ray and slowly remove him from the respirator. This is another step in the right direction because they would not allow the move unless he were stable enough to tolerate it. Keep those thoughts and prayers coming. Have a wonderful holiday weekend. We will keep everyone posted as to Ray's progress. Scott C. LaBarre, Esq. LaBarre Law Offices P.C. 1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918 Denver, Colorado 80222 303 504-5979 (voice) 303 757-3640 (fax) slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail) www.labarrelaw.com (website) CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the designated recipient, you may not read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender at 303) 504-5979 or slabarre at labarrelaw.com, and destroy and delete it from your system. This message and any attachments are covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510-2521. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5154 (20100528) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com Sat May 29 01:55:41 2010 From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt Manwaring) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 19:55:41 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games In-Reply-To: <1FB3C533-E0B4-415F-89B5-690B09F88331@gmail.com> References: <4BFFC9EE.9080805@gmail.com> <399E4B5D-EB04-4B6F-A24C-41A1FA0CB2BB@gmail.com> <1FB3C533-E0B4-415F-89B5-690B09F88331@gmail.com> Message-ID: I love games. Audiogames (which are getting quite a bit better), MUDS and online games have allo taken quite a bit of my time. :) So I have a cople thought. First of all, the MUD thin isa problem sometimes because, as VAlory said, most of them I'e played have had mostly blind people. That means small player base, most people having out of character drama, etc. Another problem, maybe worse, is the time you have to put in to the games to be any good. I remember one MUD I played whre you had to spend weeks and weeks, hours each day, before you could compete fairly with the top people in the game. Maybe that's unavoidable, but I don't like it. I prefer a game where, after a few hours, I can at least put up a fight. Next are the online browser games. These are usually really accessible, and usually have a large, mostly sighted player base. But, as with the MUDS, the people who have been playing longer automaticly have the edge. And, the interfaces usually get predictable similar and boring. I'm still looking for a text-based browser game which is (A) entertaining and (B) realisticly fair. Any gamers out there have ny suggestions? On 5/28/10, Ignasi Cambra wrote: > I agree. Especially when it comes to open source software, I find that > developers are willing to improve accessibility if one approaches them with > a positive attitude. It's useless to tell them "you didn't do this and > that". If you tell them that their software is great, but this and that are > missing for it to be fully accessible, they will generally listen. > On May 28, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Joe Orozco wrote: > >> I've found my own preferred online strategy game which I've enjoyed >> playing >> alongside sighted people. I e-mailed the developer to give him my >> complements, and even though he did not take accessibility into account >> when >> writing the program, he is now taking accessibility into account when he >> releases the next version. In general though I have found that writing to >> companies and complementing their efforts really is a big boost for their >> morale and helps them continue to make their products screen >> reader-friendly. It's one method I hope to put a tiny dent in this >> over-priced adaptive technology market. >> >> Best, >> >> Joe >> >> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, >> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson >> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:26 AM >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] drastic change for video games >> >> YAY, fellow gamer! :D >> >> I totally aggre with you. But just as annoying as it is for me >> to not be able to go out anb buy the same games my friends are >> playing, it's equally, if not more, frustrating to play a >> multi-user dungeon with NOTHING but blind people on there. I >> only say that because: >> 1. My sighted friends don't seem to understand teh concept of >> muds, which is odd considering all their visual online games >> came from the MUD. >> 2. The blind community is smal in comparison to the rest of >> the world, and the game world is smaller in comparison to the >> RL world. These two things combined is an ideal breeding ground >> for dramma caused by people who can't separate RL from RP >> (traditional or "hack and slash"). >> >> And now that i've vented, i just hav eto say that i think >> bridging the gap would be ideal, so that sighted people could >> fight alongside the blind players in a MUD, or, so that we may >> venture into the world of warcraft, secondlife, etc without >> thinking, "oh, this is a game for blind people". >> >> One final thought, I am sort of impressed at some of these >> browser based games out there, that are completely acccesible >> to the blind, and yo have mostly sighted players, compared to >> the mud, which is more complex in my oppinon. >> On May 28, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Josh wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> As I said before, first we gotta change the law. second, >> decide on a standard for audio game programming. third, make a >> good solid game company, made of multiple people, assigned >> their own task or tasks to make game creation more effective. >> perhaps collaborate through skype and dropbox. next change the >> law so games in a specialised format for people with >> disabilities may include sounds story lines plots music and >> characters from video games as longg as the game is in a >> specialised format for people who are blind visually impaired >> or similar disability that prevents them from playing that >> brand new accessible video game console. >>> now, when the company has enough money, the company should >> save some. now use that money to develop your own game console, >> or take a standard console, re-flash and modify it for >> accessibility by disabled people. now go to game conventions >> and show off your new game console. eventually my brother and >> sister's generation, and even my generation will get old, lose >> eye-sight, and won't be able to play their favorite video >> games. so lets make a kind of national library or international >> library service nls for video games in specialised format. >> Sorry guys I'm not a programmer, just putting out ideas. now to >> make a great game, lets compare it to a book. a sighted person >> can go out and read a harry potter book, get it in print, I can >> sit down beside that person with my audio book or braille book >> from nls and read it, talk about and enjoy it along with my >> sighted friend. so lets incorporate that into games. first, >> lets put games on instead lets put them on blueray disks, lots >> of space, or maybe 32gig flash drives, read only flash memory. >> lots of room there to store data. when a blind person wants to >> play a game with his or her sighted friend, the person plugs >> headphones in, the game turns on accessibility mode when the >> console detects headphones plugged in. Point is we can't have >> one guy here and another there trying to do it on their own. a >> company, an organised company has to be started with both short >> and longterm goals. laws gotta be changed so we can make and >> sell good high quality games, we gotta take our games to the >> conventions and really mount a presence there. weneed the nfb >> and ACB both involved in this. who cares if you like them or >> hate them point is they're a big big organizations and they can help! >>> but will they? >>> now if blind people can help design accessible games, game >> consoles, and the like, working for soni or EA-games that'd be >> great! for too long here is how we made games. on guy starts a >> game company, uses visual basic, another starts his own company >> uses a different language and another and another. most of >> these die very fast because its usually too much work for one >> guy to make a really good game or he doesn't have the skills. >> we gotta organise, and either push game companiess to include >> accessibility, or organise and make one or two big game >> companies, have a standard, assign tasks, make our own or >> modify existing game consoles for accessibility. not only will >> it be enjoyable for the player but it'll make new jobs >> available, and let the sighted community know by our presence >> at gaming conventions that we want to be included in the video >> game fun as well. >>> >>> Josh >>> >>> -- >>> Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com >>> >>> -- >>> Josh Kennedy jkenn337 at gmail.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nabs-l mailing list >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >>> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandka >> yla%40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account >> info for nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsorozco >> %40gmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for >> nabs-l: >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com > From troubleclark at gmail.com Sat May 29 14:47:20 2010 From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 10:47:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] looking for room mate for National convention In-Reply-To: <949BD991FC4C431AA59ECD40B5AFFFF9@chihuahuad1> References: <949BD991FC4C431AA59ECD40B5AFFFF9@chihuahuad1> Message-ID: Dear Nick My name is Nathan Clark, the one who was going to share a room with you at convention. Well I decided to get my own room and I am on the Tower side of the hotel. We will have to meet some place at convention. My cell phone number is 410-446-7259. I get to Dallas on July 2 and I leave July 9. What date do you get in and what time do you think you will get to the hotel? Sincerely, Nathan Clark On 5/18/10, Nick Gawronski wrote: > Hi, My name is Nick Gawronski and I already have a room at the main hotel > for the National convention and was trying to find a room mate. If anyone > is interested and would like to get in touch with me please either email me > off list at nick at nickgawronski.com with the subject line convention or > something like this so I will know what it is in regards to or just reply > privately to this message. You can also call my cell phone or text it at > 713-898-5005. Looking forward to convention! Nick Gawronski > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for > nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com > From nabs.president at gmail.com Sat May 29 18:03:23 2010 From: nabs.president at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 12:03:23 -0600 Subject: [nabs-l] Roommates for National Convention Message-ID: Hi all, I know several students have posted to the list or contacted me requesting roommates for national. I am not sure which of you have successfully found roommates via the listserv and who is still looking. If you are still in need of a roommate or a room, I'd suggest contacting your affiliate president first to find out if anyone else from your state has space in their room or is looking for a room. If you've already done this or there's no one else going from your state who can help you, please send me the following information and I'll see if I know of anyone else in NABS who can help you: -- Whether you have a room reserved -- If anyone else is staying with you in your room so far -- Your gender, and if you have a gender preference for your roommate(s) -- Any other special needs or preferences potential roommates should know about. Good luck and see everyone in Dallas! -- Arielle Silverman President, National Association of Blind Students Phone: 602-502-2255 Email: nabs.president at gmail.com Website: www.nabslink.org From charlie at for-the-people.com Sun May 30 21:22:33 2010 From: charlie at for-the-people.com (Charlie Richardson) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 16:22:33 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the Blind Community Message-ID: I have been asked to circulate this... Dave www.for-the-people.com is a voice chat community run by the blind and it's membership is primarily blind. There are general chat rooms, radio programs, FTP theatre which plays DVS TV programs and movies, tech events, parlor games such as trivia and name that tune style games and the list goes on. Funding to keep the site going is done through donations and fund raisers. We have teamed up with www.allinplay.com to put on a poker tournament which will be played on June 12. All Inplay is totally accessible. The deadline for signing up is June 7 at 11:59 pm, so help FTP out with a $20 donation and have yourself a seat in the tournament or make a donation to sponsor a player and have someone else play for you. In this tough economic time I realize that $20 is a lot when you're on a fixed income, but think of the good it does and it's like giving up a cup of coffee everyday for a month. See all the details at www.for-the-people.com/tournament.htm Remember, individually we can make a difference, together we can make a change. Let's do it here too. We, the community and management at FTP appreciate the help. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5155 (20100530) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jorgeapaez at mac.com Sun May 30 21:58:20 2010 From: jorgeapaez at mac.com (Jorge Paez) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 17:58:20 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] tech journalists needed Message-ID: Hello. This is Jorge writing. I am currently in the process of launching a tech journalism site. The aim of this site is to cover the vast arrays of developing technology, including software and hardware, and how it can be used by the blind. We will cover ---accessible technology (screen readers, Braille Notes, Braille Lites, Pacmates, iCons, Etc) but we will also cover technology that wasn't made with the blind as its main focus, or that are not centered around blindness such as computers, phones, and how we can make them accessible as an every day blind user. Tips and tricks, tutorials and reviews are accepted too. We are currently open for contributors from anywhere who are blind/VI, at any grade in school (we will require a writing sample) and who use these technologies in every-day-life. You can write as a "general technology" writer, which means you cover everything, or you can specify any particular areas. For more details or if you're interested contact me at computertechjorgepaez at gmail.com with any questions and/or a proposal of what you're writing about. (no attachments please, we will request a writing sample if we're interested) Thanks. Jorge From ignasicambra at gmail.com Mon May 31 00:35:47 2010 From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra) Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 20:35:47 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] Helping the Blind Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This website only works under Windows...it's really too bad. On May 30, 2010, at 5:22 PM, Charlie Richardson (by way of David Andrews ) wrote: > I have been asked to circulate this... > > Dave > > > www.for-the-people.com is a voice chat community run by the blind and it's membership is primarily blind. > > There are general chat rooms, radio programs, FTP theatre which plays DVS TV programs and movies, tech events, parlor games such as trivia and name that tune style games and the list goes on. > > Funding to keep the site going is done through donations and fund raisers. > > We have teamed up with www.allinplay.com to put on a poker tournament which will be played on June 12. All Inplay is totally accessible. The deadline for signing up is June 7 at 11:59 pm, so help FTP out with a $20 donation and have yourself a seat in the tournament or make a donation to sponsor a player and have someone else play for you. > > In this tough economic time I realize that $20 is a lot when you're on a fixed income, but think of the good it does and it's like giving up a cup of coffee everyday for a month. > > See all the details at www.for-the-people.com/tournament.htm > > Remember, individually we can make a difference, together we can make a change. Let's do it here too. > > We, the community and management at FTP appreciate the help. > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5155 (20100530) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > _______________________________________________ > nabs-l mailing list > nabs-l at nfbnet.org > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l: > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com Mon May 31 11:08:04 2010 From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 07:08:04 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] An Introduction to Behavioral Endocrinology, 3rd edition Message-ID: Hi all, would anyone happen to have the following book in electronic format? An Introduction to Behavioral Endocrinology, 3rd edition by Nelson It's not available on Bookshare. I've a class this Tuesday and don't want to spend hours on the scanner. Thanks, Alex From dandrews at visi.com Mon May 31 22:42:14 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 17:42:14 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] Cardtronics Settlement Message-ID: I have been asked to circulate the materials below. David Andrews The Proposed Remediation Plan provides as follows: (1) All Cardtronics-owned ATMs in Massachusetts will be Voice-guided no later than June 30, 2010. (2) By December 31, 2010, at least ninety percent (90%) of all transactions at covered ATMs occurring within the borders of Massachusetts will occur on ATMs that are Voice-guided. (3) All Cardtronics-owned ATMs nationally will be Voice-guided no later than December 31, 2010, with the exception of Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores which will be Voice-guided no later than March 31, 2011. (4) By March 31, 2011, at least ninety percent (90%) of all transactions at covered ATMs nationally will occur on ATMs that are Voice-guided. (5) With the assistance of the NFB, Cardtronics has developed enhanced scripts for the great majority of the ATMs it owns. With the exception of Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores, on or before December 31, 2010 Cardtronics will install enhanced scripts on all Cardtronics-owned ATMs, except where it is not technologically feasible to do so, in which cases, on or before December 31, 2010, Cardtronics shall either (i) replace such ATMs with ATMs on which an enhanced script can and will be installed, or (ii) remove such ATMs from the Cardtronics-owned fleet. Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores will be Voice-guided no later than March 31, 2011. Any script on any Cardtronics-owned ATM, including the enhanced scripts, shall meet the requirements set forth in the definition of “Voice-guided” and “Voice-Guidance” set forth in the Final Order[1] and as supplemented in paragraph 6 of this Order. (6) With the exception of Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores, by December 31, 2010, all Cardtronics-owned Voice-guided ATMs and those merchant-owned, Voice-guided ATMs that Cardtronics designates as making up a portion of the ninety percent (90%) transaction requirements of paragraphs 2 and 4 above, will have tactilely discernible controls, that is, operating mechanisms used in conjunction with speech output that can be located and operated by feel. When a numeric keypad is part of the tactilely discernible controls, all function keys will be mapped to the numeric keypad and, except for those remaining Wincor ATMs installed in Target stores prior to June 2007, the numeric keypad will have an “echo” effect such that the user’s numeric entries (other than the entry of a personal identification number) are repeated in voice form. All tactilely discernible controls will otherwise comply with applicable regulations. All Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores will meet these requirements no later than March 31, 2011. (7) With the exception of Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores, by December 31, 2010, all Cardtronics-owned ATMs will have appropriate signage as identified in the Final Order Ex. 1.[2] All Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores will meet these requirements no later than March 31, 2011. By December 31, 2010, Cardtronics will send such signage to each of its Merchant-owned customers that operate a Voice-guided ATM (with the exception of those customers for whom Cardtronics physically placed Braille signage on each of the customer’s Voice-guided ATMs after April 9, 2007) requesting that those customers install such signage on their Voice-guided ATMs. Cardtronics will include a letter from the NFB describing the importance of such signage with its request. On or before February 1, 2011, Cardtronics will provide the NFB with the approximate date on which it placed signage on each of the Merchant-owned Voice-guided ATMs or sent the appropriate signage by mail. (8) By December 31, 2012, Cardtronics will cause to have inspected all Cardtronics-owned, non-branded ATMs to ensure that the Voice-guided features of these ATMs are in working condition. Approximately 10,000 of these inspections shall take place in calendar years 2010 and 2011, with the balance taking place in calendar year 2012. To the extent Cardtronics can demonstrate to Class counsel that within the first two years of conducting such inspections the Voice-guided features are in compliance with the definition of Voice-guidance, the parties shall meet to discuss the results of these inspections and may agree in writing that Cardtronics shall cause to have inspected a minimum of 1,000 Cardtronics-owned, non-branded ATMs each year for the remainder of the term of the Agreement. These inspections will be documented in a manner showing that the person conducting the inspection used headphones to listen to the voice script on the ATM. Similarly, in the course of conducting its routine inspections of Cardtronics-owned, branded ATMs, such inspections shall be documented in a manner showing that the person conducting the inspection used headphones to listen to the voice script on the ATM. On a monthly basis, Cardtronics shall report the results of all inspections required by this paragraph to Class counsel. (9) In addition to the reporting requirements identified in the Final Order,[3] Cardtronics will report monthly between June 1, 2010 and December 31, 2011. For the period between June 1, 2010 and December 31, 2011, Cardtronics will add to the information it is currently reporting for each Cardtronics-owned ATM whether the enhanced script has been installed on the ATM, as well as the month and year of such installation. No later than October 31, 2010, for each Cardtronics-owned ATM on which it is not technologically feasible to install an enhanced script, Cardtronics will indicate whether it will replace such ATM with a Voice-guided ATM or remove the ATM from the fleet. (10) Cardtronics will keep its ATM locator on its website up to date as to whether a covered ATM is equipped with Voice-guidance. (11) Notice of the Proposed Remediation Plan will be provided to the Class in the manner described below. (12) In addition to the testing costs set forth in Final Order Ex. 1, Cardtronics will pay $60,000 to the NFB to be used for interim testing and other compliance monitoring by the NFB taking place in 2010 and the first quarter of 2011. The NFB shall provide Cardtronics with invoices as testing is completed, to be payable by Cardtronics within 30 days of receipt of each invoice. (13) Cardtronics will pay the NFB $145,000 for the reasonable fees and costs incurred by the NFB as a result of Cardtronics’ failure to comply with the Final Order. This amount includes attorneys’ fees and testing costs that the NFB incurred due to the failure of Cardtronics to comply with the Final Order and shall be paid in two equal installments of $72,500, one upon the effective date of this Court’s final approval of the Proposed Remediation Plan and the second 60 days thereafter. (14) The requirements set forth in Final Order Ex. 1 shall remain in effect, in whole or in part, for eight years from the date of this Court’s final approval of the Proposed Remediation Plan. The Parties may agree in writing to extend the requirements of Final Order Ex. 1 further or the Court may so order in connection with paragraph 13.3. Notwithstanding any expiration of Final Order Ex. 1, paragraphs 6, 7 and 13 of Final Order Ex. 1 shall continue to remain in effect in perpetuity. (15) To the extent that the requirements set forth herein are inconsistent with any provision of Final Order Ex. 1, this Order controls. All other terms and requirements of the Final Order, including Final Order Ex. 1, will remain in full force and effect. [1] Final Order Ex. 1 at 4. [2] See Final Order Ex. 1 at ¶ 4.2. [3] See id. at ¶ 4.4.1. UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, et al., Plaintiffs, v. CARDTRONICS, INC., et al., Defendants. ) Civil Action No. 03-11206-MEL ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) NOTICE OF PROPOSED REMEDIATION PLAN CONCERNING FINAL ORDER RELATING TO CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND HEARING TO BE HELD ON September 15, 2010 @ 2:30pm TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE NATIONWIDE CLASS CERTIFIED BY THIS COURT TO INCLUDE BLIND PATRONS OF AUTOMATED TELLER MACHINES (“ATMs”) OWNED OR OPERATED BY EITHER CARDTRONICS, INC. OR CARDTRONICS USA, INC. (collectively, “Cardtronics”) On December 4, 2007, this Court granted final approval of a class action settlement agreement entered into between Plaintiffs, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the National Federation of the Blind (“NFB”), and several individual blind persons, and Defendants, Cardtronics, Inc. and Cardtronics, LP (now Cardtronics USA, Inc.) (collectively “Cardtronics”) concerning, among other things, the accessibility of ATMs owned or operated by Cardtronics to blind patrons under the Americans with Disabilities Act (“ADA”) and Massachusetts state laws. DUE TO CARDTRONICS’ INABILITY TO MEET A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT REQUIREMENTS OF THIS COURT’S FINAL ORDER OF DECEMBER 4, 2007, THE PARTIES HAVE REACHED AGREEMENT ON A PROPOSED REMEDIATION PLAN, SUBJECT TO APPROVAL BY THIS COURT, THAT REQUIRES CARDTRONICS TO MEET ALL OF THEIR PRIOR OBLIGATIONS WITH EXTENSIONS OF TIME TO DO SO, PLUS ADDITIONAL OBLIGATIONS INTENDED TO ENSURE THAT THE MEMBERS OF THE CLASS ENJOY THE BENEFITS SET FORTH IN THE ORIGINAL SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND FINAL COURT ORDER. Cardtronics has agreed to a remediation plan that includes, among other actions, ensuring that with the exception of Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores, all ATMs owned by Cardtronics will offer voice guidance through a standard headphone jack located on the face of the ATM by no later than December 31, 2010; Cardtronics-owned ATMs located in 7-Eleven stores will offer voice guidance through a standard headphone jack located on the face of the ATM by no later than March 31, 2011, and that by March 31, 2011, at least ninety percent (90%) of all Transactions at Covered ATMs shall occur on ATMs that are Voice-guided or otherwise accessible to Blind people. Cardtronics has agreed to develop improved voice-guided scripts for all Cardtronics-owned ATMs to ensure that blind customers can easily access all ATM functions. Cardtronics has also agreed to institute an inspection program intended to ensure that voice-guided ATMs remain operational for blind customers. A full copy of the proposed remediation plan is available on the NFB’s website: www.nfb.org and on the Cardtronics’ website: www.cardtronics.net/news/nfb_remediationplan.asp. The locations of the existing ATMs covered by the Final Order and by the proposed remediation plan, with designation of voice-guidance status, can be obtained through Cardtronics’ ATM locator feature, available at www.cardtronics.net/about/atmlocator.asp. As part of the proposed remediation plan and subject to Court approval, Cardtronics has agreed to pay the amount of $145,000 in attorneys’ fees to the attorneys representing the class. These amounts will not detract from Cardtronics duties to provide accessible ATMs to the class. The Court will conduct a hearing on the motion of class counsel for their attorneys’ fees at the date and time set forth in the following paragraph. Cardtronics has also agreed to pay an additional $60,000 to the NFB for testing that the NFB will conduct to ensure compliance with the remediation plan requirements. YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED, pursuant to Rule 23 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and an Order of the Court dated May 18, 2010, and as thereafter amended that a Final Approval Hearing will be held on September 15, 2010, at 2:30pm, before that Court in the United States Courthouse, One Courthouse Way, Boston, Massachusetts 02210. The purpose of this Final Approval Hearing is to determine whether the proposed remediation plan should be approved by the Court as fair, reasonable and adequate and whether the application for award of attorneys’ fees and reimbursement for expenses should be approved. Class Members who wish to object to the proposed settlement must provide notice of and explanation of their objection in writing to the Court at the address above, with copies to Counsel at the addresses provided below, no later than Monday, August 30, 2010. Only Class Members filing timely objections may request to present their objections at the Final Approval Hearing. Office of the Massachusetts Attorney General Attn: Maura Healey, Esq. 100 Cambridge Street 11TH floor Boston, MA 02108 Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP Attn: Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, Esq. 120 E. Baltimore Street Suite 1700 Baltimore, MD 21202 Joseph Kociubes, Esq. Bingham McCutchen LLP 150 Federal Street Boston, MA 02110-1726 FOR FURTHER INFORMATION, VISIT www.cardtronics.net/news/ OR CONTACT COUNSEL FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: Commonwealth of Massachusetts Office of Attorney General Disability Rights Project (617) 727-2200 www.mass.gov/ago OR Brown, Goldstein & Levy, LLP (410) 962-1030 www.browngold.com EXCEPT AS INSTRUCTED IN THE NOTICE, PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT THE COURT. Dated: May 18, 2010 By Order of the United States District Court For the District of Massachusetts UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, et al., Plaintiffs v. E*TRADE ACCESS, INC., et al., Defendants CIVIL ACTION NO. 03-11206-MEL FINAL ORDER AND JUDGMENT Plaintiffs, Commonwealth of Massachusetts, National Federation of the Blind, Inc. (“NFB”), Adrienne Asch, Jennifer Bose, Norma Crosby, Dwight Sayer, Robert Crowley, Jr., Raymond Wayne, Terri Uttermohlen, and Bryan Bashin, seek final approval of the class action settlement that was approved preliminarily by this Court on July 26, 2007. See Memorandum and Order Granting Unopposed Motion for Preliminary Approval of Class Action Settlement and for Fairness Hearing (“Preliminary Approval Order”). Specifically, Plaintiffs have moved the Court for an Order: (1) finding that the class action Settlement Agreement between Plaintiffs and Defendants, Cardtronics, LP, and Cardtronics, Inc. (collectively “Cardtronics”), is a fair, reasonable and adequate settlement of all of the claims of the class against Defendants, overruling the single objection to the proposed settlement and finding that each class member shall be bound by the Settlement Agreement, including its release; (2) finding that the Notice published to the class satisfies the requirements of due process and Fed. R. Civ. P. 23; (3) approving an award of attorneys’ fees and costs by Defendants to Plaintiff, NFB, in the amount of $900,000, as agreed to by the parties; (4) dismissing this lawsuit on the merits and with prejudice as to all claims in the lawsuit against all Defendants; (5) attaching and incorporating by reference the terms of the Settlement Agreement; and (6) retaining jurisdiction of all matters relating to the interpretation, administration, implementation, effectuation and enforcement of the Settlement Agreement. I. Background A. Plaintiffs’ Claims Cardtronics currently owns and/or operates at least 23,300 ATMs throughout the United States, including approximately 15,000 ATMs formerly owned and/or operated by Defendant E*TRADE Access, Inc. (“Access”).[1] Approximately half of these ATMs are owned by independent merchants who are customers of Cardtronics (“Merchant-Owned ATMs”). This litigation concerns Plaintiffs’ request that Cardtronics’s fleet of ATMs be made accessible to and independently useable by blind people through the use of voice-guidance technology. Some of the ATMs in the Cardtronics fleet already have voice guidance. Those ATMs that are not currently voice-guided vary in their capacity to be made voice-guided. Many newer machines have the capacity to be upgraded to provide voice-guidance through a straightforward retrofit process (“Upgradeable ATMs”). Other, older, machines are not able to be upgraded and must be replaced completely in order to make voice guidance available. Plaintiffs’ Fourth Amended and Supplemental Class Action Complaint (“Fourth Amended Complaint”) alleges that Cardtronics has failed to make all of the ATMs it owns and/or operates accessible to blind individuals in violation of Title III of the ADA, 42 U.S.C. §§ 12181 et seq., and Section 4.34.5 of the Department of Justice Standards for Accessible Design, 28 C.F.R. pt. 36, app. A (“Standards”) (requiring that ATMs be “accessible to and independently useable by persons with vision impairments”). Title III is enforceable through a private right of action for injunctive relief and prevailing plaintiffs are entitled to attorneys’ fees. See 42 U.S.C. §§ 12188(a)(1), (2) and 12205. Plaintiffs have also alleged violations of the Massachusetts Public Accommodations Act (“MPAA”), Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 272, §§ 92A and 98, and the Massachusetts Equal Rights Act (“MERA”), Mass. Gen. Laws ch. 93, § 103. Although numerous procedural and substantive disputes have arisen throughout this litigation, the case turns primarily on the vigorously contested issues of whether Defendants’ ATMs are in violation of the Standards and, if they are, whether Plaintiffs are entitled to an injunction that would require Cardtronics to install voice-guidance capabilities on all ATMs it owns and/or operates, including Merchant-Owned ATMs. The lawsuit also includes claims against Defendant E*TRADE Bank, Inc. concerning its banking policies applicable to consumers’ use of the Cardtronics ATMs. These claims are derivative of the claims addressing the accessibility of the Cardtronics ATMs. B. Pre-Filing Settlement Negotiations On June 9, 2003, after lengthy negotiations, the Commonwealth and the NFB entered into a Partial Settlement Agreement (“PSA”) with Defendants Access and E*TRADE Bank, Inc. (collectively “E*TRADE”), pursuant to which Access agreed to equip the ATMs it owned with voice guidance over a period of two and one-half years. The parties were not able to reach agreement with respect to Merchant-Owned ATMs. C. Litigation On June 23, 2003, the Commonwealth and the NFB, along with several individual blind people and the NFB’s Massachusetts affiliate, filed the present suit against E*TRADE. From its inception, this litigation has been hard-fought. As fully detailed in the Preliminary Approval Order, this complex case involved numerous dispositive motions, voluminous document discovery and several significant discovery-related motions. II. Summary of the Settlement After an all-day mediation on April 9, 2007, and following further negotiations over the course of more than two months, the parties executed the Settlement Agreement on June 21, 2007. In summary, the settlement requires: All Cardtronics-Owned ATMs will be voice-guided by the end of this year, with two exceptions: a set of approximately 1,600 machines that already have voice-guidance, but do not have, as otherwise required by the Settlement Agreement, audible verification of all of the inputs by the ATM user; and a set of no more than 177 machines will be voice-guided by mid-2008. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.1.) As of April 9, 2007 and going forward, Cardtronics will only install Cardtronics-Owned ATMs that are voice-guided. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.1) As of April 9, 2007 and going forward, Cardtronics will only sell or make available to merchants ATMs that are voice-guided. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.2.1.) Cardtronics will identify the smallest subset of Merchant-Owned ATMs without voice guidance that collectively account for 80% of transactions at Merchant-Owned ATMs (“High Volume Merchants”) and will, within ninety (90) days of approval, offer those merchants that have Upgradeable ATMs the opportunity to upgrade to add voice guidance at no cost, and will offer those merchants whose machines are not upgradeable the opportunity to purchase a voice-guided machine at Cardtronics’s wholesale cost. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.2.2.) Regardless of the outcome of this marketing plan, Cardtronics will ensure that, by July 1, 2010, at least ninety (90) percent of all transactions on the ATMs covered by the settlement occur on voice-guided ATMs. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.3.) After July 1, 2010, Cardtronics will not add or renew any merchant-owned ATMs that are not voice-guided, so that any remaining ATMs constituting less than 10% of transaction volume that are not yet voice-guided will either become so or be eliminated. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.3.2.) Any additional functions that are added to ATMs covered by the settlement will be accessible to blind patrons within ninety (90) days unless Cardtronics believes doing so would not be technically feasible without causing undue burden or delay, in which case the parties are to meet and confer to attempt to eliminate the obstructions to adding such new functions. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.7.) Cardtronics-owned ATMs acquired after final approval of the settlement agreement shall be voice-guided within two (2) years; after-acquired Merchant-owned ATMs that are Merchant-Owned by High Volume Merchants will receive the upgrade or replacement offers described above. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 3.6.) Cardtronics will provide web-based information and signage to assist blind patrons in identifying which of its ATMs are voice-guided. (Settlement Agreement, ¶¶ 4.1, 4.2.) Cardtronics will report to Class Counsel throughout the term of the Settlement Agreement concerning the number of voice-guided ATMs and the percentage of transactions occurring on such ATMs, and that progress will be verified by Cardtronics and monitored by the NFB. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 4.4.) Cardtronics must comply with any future regulatory requirements that impose additional requirements, but if regulations require less than the Settlement Agreement, the Settlement Agreement controls. (Settlement Agreement ¶5.1) Class members will release claims for injunctive relief and attorneys’ fees under Title III of the ADA, the MPAA, the MERA, and any other claims held by the named plaintiffs to the extent such claims relate to the accessibility of ATMs to blind people. Class members also release claims for injunctive relief under state law to the extent it incorporates or is equivalent to Title III. (Settlement Agreement, ¶¶ 7.1, 7.2.) Class members (excepting the named plaintiffs) do not release claims for damages. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 7.1.3.) Cardtronics will pay $900,000 in attorneys’ fees to the NFB and make a contribution of $100,000 to the local consumer aid fund of the Massachusetts Attorney General. (Settlement Agreement, ¶¶ 9.1, 9.2.) Because the Settlement Agreement applies to all Cardtronics ATMs -- including former E*TRADE ATMs -- it supercedes the earlier PSA among E*TRADE, the Commonwealth, and the NFB. Although E*TRADE is not a party to the Settlement Agreement, that agreement concludes this litigation and calls for the dismissal with prejudice of all claims in this case against all Defendants. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 2.7(c).) The implementation of voice guidance on the ATMs makes it unnecessary for E*TRADE Bank to change its policies as sought in the lawsuit. In the Settlement Agreement, the parties agreed that the Court should retain jurisdiction of this case for purposes of the interpretation, administration, implementation, effectuation, and enforcement of this Agreement. (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 2.7(d).) In addition, Defendants have withdrawn their opposition to Plaintiffs’ motion for leave to file a Fourth Amended Complaint (Settlement Agreement, ¶ 2.1) and the Court has granted the parties’ joint motion for certification of a settlement class, which includes all persons who are Blind patrons of ATMs covered by the Settlement Agreement. III. Preliminary Approval As mentioned, on July 26, 2007, this Court granted Plaintiffs’ Unopposed Motion for Preliminary Approval of Class Action Settlement and scheduled a Fairness Hearing on the proposed settlement for December 4, 2007. In the Preliminary Approval Order, the Court approved the parties’ proposed plan for notifying class member of the settlement, as well as the form of the notice to be utilized for this purpose (“Notice”). IV. Notice to the Class The Court finds that the Notice approved in the Court’s Preliminary Approval Order was made available on Cardtronics’s website from approximately August 23, 2007 to November 1, 2007 and that a copy of the Notice was also available on the NFB’s website during that same period. The Court also finds that a copy of the Notice was mailed to a list of over 900 organizations, including a number composed of, and/or focused on the issues of, blind people. Of those mailings, 36 were returned due to incorrect addresses. The correct addresses were ascertained for 11 of those returned mailings and the Notice was then sent to those correct addresses. In addition, the Notice was emailed to 1,036 email addresses relating to the organizations referenced above, with a cover letter requesting that the recipient post and forward the Notice. Of those emails, 186 were returned as undeliverable. Fifteen organizations to whom the Notice was emailed notified class counsel that they had forwarded the Notice to other individuals or lists of individuals thought to be class members. Another ten organizations notified class counsel that they had posted the Notice on their websites. The NFB sent the Notice to over 50 email lists of blind individuals, including lists of blind lawyers, students, and travelers. In each of these paper and electronic mailings, counsel for the class offered to provide Braille versions of the Notice and/or the Settlement Agreement. Class counsel ultimately received and honored six requests for Braille documentation. The Court finds further that the Notice was published in the August/September edition of the Braille Monitor, which is the publication of the NFB and is regularly sent to its approximately 50,000 members, among others. The Notice was also published in the September, 2007, edition of the Braille Forum, as well as in the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, and USA Today on August 28, 2007. In addition, the Court finds that there has been only one objection to the proposed settlement. This objection purports to be on behalf of Mason P. James, of Loveland, Texas, and states only that “[m]e wish to object to the proposed settlement.” See Objection by Mason P. James (Sept. 27, 2007, Paper No. 270). DISCUSSION I. The Settlement Agreement is Granted Final Approval. A court may approve the settlement of a class action only upon finding that it is “fair, reasonable, and adequate.” Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(e)(1)(C); see also City P’ship Co. v. Atlantic Acquisition Ltd. P’ship, 100 F.3d 1041, 1043 (1st Cir. 1996) (same). The First Circuit has recognized a clear policy of encouraging settlements in class action cases, and has stated that “[w]hen sufficient discovery has been provided and the parties have bargained at arms-length, there is a presumption in favor of the settlement.” City P’ship, 100 F.3d at 1043. In determining the fairness, reasonableness and adequacy of a proposed class action settlement, several courts in this district have looked to the following factors set forth in City of Detroit v. Grinnell Corp., 495 F.2d 448, 463 (2d Cir. 1974), overruled on other grounds by Missouri v. Jenkins, 491 U.S. 274 (1989): (1) the complexity, expense and likely duration of the litigation; (2) the reaction of the class to the settlement; (3) the stage of the proceedings and the amount of discovery completed; (4) the risks of establishing liability; (5) the risks of establishing damages; (6) the risks of maintaining the class action through the trial; (7) the ability of the defendants to withstand a greater judgment; (8) the range of reasonableness of the settlement fund in light of the best possible recovery; (9) the range of reasonableness of the settlement fund to a possible recovery in light of all the attendant risks of litigation. For all of the reasons set forth in the Court’s Preliminary Approval Order, an analysis of these factors strongly supports this Court’s final approval of the Settlement Agreement as fair, reasonable and adequate. In addition, this Court overrules the single objection to the proposed settlement, as no reasons were provided for that objection as required by the Notice approved by the Court. Therefore, this Court also finds that all class members are bound by the Settlement Agreement, including its release provisions. II. Notice to the Class Rule 23(e) states that “notice of the proposed dismissal or compromise shall be given to all members of the class in such manner as the court directs.” The notice must satisfy Rule 23, as well as due process requirements. Cf. Besinga v. United States, 923 F.2d 133, 136-37 (9th Cir. 1991) (requirements of due process and Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(c)(2)(B) are similar). “‘[I]t is the court’s duty to ensure that the notice ordered is reasonably calculated to reach the absent class members.” Reppert v. Marvin Lumber and Cedar Co., 359 F.3d 53, 56 (1st Cir. 2004) (citations omitted). “When individual notice is infeasible, notice by publication in a newspaper of national circulation . . . is an acceptable substitute.” Mirfasihi v. Fleet Mortgage Corp., 356 F.3d 781, 786 (7th Cir. 2004). This Court finds that the notice program approved in its Preliminary Approval Order and now implemented by the parties was the best notice practicable under the circumstances and satisfied the requirements of due process and Fed. R. Civ. P. 23. The parties represented that there was no readily accessible list of the potential class members in this case and that such a list likely could not be created without enormous effort and expenditure. Notice here involved a combination of individual mailing -- through the Braille Monitor and Braille Forum to tens of thousands of blind people -- and publication in three newspapers of national circulation: The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and USA Today. Under these circumstances, individual notice was not required in order to satisfy the requirements of due process and Fed. R. Civ. P. 23. III. Attorneys’ Fees and Costs Class counsel have submitted an Unopposed Petition for an Award of Attorneys’ Fees and Costs, pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 23(h) and 54(d)(2). Specifically, class counsel request that the Court approve an award of attorneys’ fees and costs by Defendants to the NFB in the amount of $900,000, the amount agreed to by the parties as part of the class action settlement. The ADA provides that courts may award the prevailing party its “reasonable attorney’s fee, including litigation expenses, and costs.” 42 U.S.C. § 12205. Rules 23(h)(1) and (2) require that notice and an opportunity to object be provided. In this case, the Notice sent pursuant to the Preliminary Approval Order included the amount of the fees and provided an opportunity to object and no class member has objected to the proposed fee award. In evaluating a fee petition in a case such as this, the Court is to consider “the reasonableness of the hours spent and the hourly rate sought.” Weinberger v. Great Northern Nekoosa Corp., 925 F.2d 518, 529 (1st Cir. 1991) (quoting In re Spillance, 884 F.2d 642, 647 (1st Cir. 1989)). After due consideration of the filings of class counsel and the relevant case law cited therein, this Court finds that a fee award in the amount of $900,000 is well within the bounds of reasonableness under the circumstances of this case. The time spent by class counsel in litigating this complex case clearly was justified. In addition, the lodestar amount – calculated by multiplying these hours by reasonable prevailing rates – is almost twice the amount agreed upon in the settlement. The Court finds that the hourly rates charged by class counsel are commensurate with the rates charged by Boston attorneys of comparable experience in comparable matters and that the rates actually billed to the NFB were below those rates. In addition, the award sought is well below the actual amount of fees and costs paid by the NFB in connection with this litigation. For these reasons, the Court approves the fee award agreed to by the parties as part of the Settlement Agreement. IT IS HEREBY ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED THAT: 1. This Court has jurisdiction over the subject matter of this lawsuit and over all of the parties to the lawsuit, including the named Plaintiffs, all members of the class, and Defendants. 2. The Court adopts and incorporates the findings of the Preliminary Approval Order and hereby approves the Settlement Agreement as fair, reasonable and adequate in all respects. This is especially so in view of the complexity, expense and probable duration of further litigation, the risks of establishing liability, the intensive arm’s length negotiations of experienced counsel and the reasonableness of the relief obtained, considering the range of possible outcomes and the attendant risks of litigation. 3. The Court overrules the single objection to the settlement and finds that each class member is bound by the Settlement Agreement, including its release. 4. The Court finds that the Notice published to the class satisfies the requirements of due process and Fed. R. Civ. P. 23. 5. The Court finds that the attorneys’ fees and costs sought by class counsel are reasonable and approves an award of fees and costs, in the amount of $900,000, as agreed to by the parties. 6. The Court dismisses this lawsuit on the merits and with prejudice as to all claims in the lawsuit against all Defendants. 7. The Court attaches hereto as Exhibit 1 and incorporates into this Final Order and Judgment the terms of the Settlement Agreement. 8. The Court retains jurisdiction of all matters relating to the interpretation, administration, implementation, effectuation and enforcement of the Settlement Agreement. It is so ordered. Dated: _________________________ U.S.D.J. 397837 [1] On or about June 2, 2004, Cardtronics LP acquired Access’s ATM business. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From dandrews at visi.com Mon May 31 23:12:32 2010 From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 18:12:32 -0500 Subject: [nabs-l] 2010 NFB Convention Agenda Now Available Message-ID: Below is the text of the agenda for the 2010 NFB national convention. You can also download a fully-formatted Word version from the link below. Dave http://www.nfb.org/nfb/National_Convention.asp THE MEMBERS OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF TEXAS WELCOME YOU TO THE 70th ANNUAL CONVENTION OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND Marc Maurer, President National Federation of the Blind 200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place Baltimore, Maryland 21230 Mary Ellen Jernigan Executive Director for Operations and Chairwoman, Convention Organization and Activities Angela Wolf, President National Federation of the Blind of Texas 314 East Highland Mall Blvd., Suite 353 Austin, Texas 78752 Hilton Anatole Hotel 2201 Stemmons Freeway Dallas, Texas 75207 (214) 748-1200 The 70th annual convention of the National Federation of the Blind is being held in Dallas at the Hilton Anatole Hotel. As usual, our hotel rates are very good: singles and doubles are $62; triples and quads are $67. In addition to the room rates, there is a fifteen percent occupancy tax. There is no charge for children under sixteen in the room with parents as long as no extra bed is required. Proof of convention registration is necessary, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Otherwise, regular hotel rates must be paid. The Hilton Anatole is a non-smoking hotel; smoking is permitted only on the Gossip patio and fifteen feet from any outside entrance. HILTON ANATOLE GEOGRAPHY The Hilton Anatole consists of two main sections—the Atrium and the Tower. The Atrium section is further divided into Atrium I and Atrium II. At the lobby and mezzanine levels Atrium I, Atrium II, and the Tower are connected so that you can walk from Atrium I at the far east end of the hotel through Atrium II into the Tower at the far west end of the hotel as if it were one building. During the time of our convention the entire central area of Atrium II at the lobby level will be undergoing substantial renovation. This renovation will not impact our convention operation in any significant way since there will be a well-defined passageway linking Atrium I with the Tower. This passageway will run east and west along the south side of Atrium II at the lobby level. At levels above the mezzanine, Atrium I and Atrium II are contiguous with each other but not with the Tower—that is, to reach the sleeping rooms, you must use either the Atrium elevators or the Tower elevators, depending on which section your room is located in. The Tower sleeping room elevators do not stop at the mezzanine level. The Atrium sleeping room elevators stop at the mezzanine level, and you can reach the mezzanine level meeting rooms above the Atrium I lobby, the Atrium II lobby, and the Tower lobby. However, a flight of six or eight steps links the Atrium II mezzanine and the Tower mezzanine. If these steps are a problem, you can take a separate, single elevator that goes from the Tower lobby to the Tower mezzanine level. This elevator is located just west of the business center in the Tower lobby. At the west end of the Tower mezzanine is a stairway that leads to the Tower lobby. When you come down this stairway, you are facing east, and the Chantilly Ballroom is slightly ahead and on your right. Atrium I is the farthest-east section of the hotel and sits slightly south of Atrium II. Think of the entire hotel as a high-top tennis shoe lying on its side with the sole running along the north side, the toe pointing west, and the open top to the south. The right angle formed where the back of the shoe meets the sole in the hotel’s architecture is actually cut on the diagonal so that, when entering the hotel on that diagonal, you are facing southwest. Atrium I is much shorter in its north-south dimension than are Atrium II and the Tower on the east-west axis. After you step into the main entrance, a left turn takes you towards the check-in desk and Atrium I. If you stand with your back to the check-in desk, you are facing west. Atrium I is on your left, and Atrium II is slightly to your right and straight ahead. The Atrium elevators and stairway and escalators to the mezzanine-level meeting rooms are located just across from the Atrium front desk and main entrance in the general area where the two Atria join. Access to the temporary passageway between Atrium I and the Tower will be located here also. The lobby level of Atrium I and the area south of the temporary Atrium II passageway contains several meeting rooms, a brand new restaurant called the Media Grill & Bar, and the Grand Ballroom, which is located on the south side of Atrium II. The Khmer Pavilion is located roughly above the Grand Ballroom. The point at which the Atrium II lobby joins the Tower lobby is located just beyond the west end of the Grand Ballroom foyer. The exact configuration of this juncture is unknown at the time of this writing because of the renovations in progress. If any steps still remain by the time we arrive, there will be a ramp in place for wheelchair access. HOTEL FOOD SERVICE Breakfast will be available from 6:00 to 11:00 am in three locations: Common Ground in Atrium 1, serving grab-and-go continental breakfasts and ala carte items including hot breakfast sandwiches; The Terrace in Atrium 1 serving full hot breakfasts; and Gossips (beginning at 6:30 am) in the Tower serving specialty coffees and ala carte items. Lunch will be available from 11:00 am to 2:00 pm in the Common Ground serving soups, salads, deli and hot sandwiches, quick grab-and-go bag lunches, and other ala carte items; in The Terrace from 11:00 am to 2:00 pm serving a quick hot “blue plate” special each day; in Gossips from 11:00 am to 3:00 pm serving deli sandwiches and ala carte items; and in the Media Grill & Bar (located on the south side of Atrium II between the Atrium escalators and the Grand Ballroom) from 11:00 am to 10:00 pm offering a full-scale lunch and dinner menu. Dinner will be available in the Media Grill & Bar until 10:00 pm, with “deep-night” bar and selected food service continuing until 2:00 am; in the Rathskeller (accessed from the Tower lobby across from the potpourri shop), serving a typical sports bar menu; and in Nana, the five-star restaurant located on the twenty-seventh floor of the Tower, from 6:30 to 10:30 pm. In addition, sushi will be available in Gossips until 2:00 am; a variety of hot and cold lite fare will be available in the bar at Nana from 4:30 pm to 12:30 am; and room service is available on a twenty-four-hour basis. TEXAS-STYLE BARBEQUE AND LIVE MUSIC IN ANATOLE PARK Continue the excitement of convention opening day by enjoying a delicious Texas-style barbeque with family and friends under the stars in Anatole Park. Listen to the great acoustical sounds of one of Texas’ top performing singers and songwriters, Brian Burns, with friends Tommy Alverson and Davin James, who bring Texas and American country music back to the heart of the matter. All hosted by the NFB of Texas and all happening on Tuesday, July 6, starting at 6:00 pm. Tickets (while they last) are $45 per person and can be purchased in the registration area. ROOKIE ROUNDUP All first-time convention attendees are cordially invited to attend a reception from 8:00 to 10:00 pm on Saturday, July 3, in the Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby. President Maurer and other Federation leaders will be on hand to welcome you to the convention and preview the week’s activities. Veteran conventioneers should urge all first-timers to attend this special event. Also, first-time rookies are invited to join an informal, fun gathering on Monday, July 5, from 12:00 noon to 2:00 pm in the Affiliate Action Suite 2372. REGISTRATION & PREREGISTRATION Registration activities take place in the upper Chantilly foyer, Tower lobby beginning at 9:00 am on Sunday, July 4; at 8:30 am on Monday, July 5; and at other times as listed throughout the week. The fee for registration at convention is $20 per person (if you preregistered before May 31, the fee was $15), and all those attending the convention (both local and outoftown people) are asked to register. Convention registration is a requirement for door prize eligibility and a number of other convention activities. We condition rates for hotel rooms on proof of registration, including the showing of an NFB registration badge if requested. Therefore, please register as soon as possible after arrival. EXHIBITS Exhibits (excluding the NFB Independence Market) are on display in the Khmer Pavilion, Atrium third level. Exhibit hall hours are: Sunday 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Monday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Tuesday Noon to 1:45 pm; Sponsors only from 7:00-10:00 pm Wednesday Noon to 1:45 pm and 7:00 to 10:00 pm There is a special event for sponsor-level exhibitors only on Tuesday, July 6, from 7:00 to 10:00 pm (see “Special Attention” section and agenda listing for more information). Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at the NEWSLINE table. Any alterations in the general session schedule which may occur during the convention will result in conforming shifts in the exhibit schedule and will be announced in the exhibit areas. A number of affiliated NFB divisions and committees have tables. INDEPENDENCE MARKET & SHOWROOM OF INNOVATION The Independence Market and the Showroom of Innovation will be located in the Grand Ballroom, Atrium lobby. NFB publications, products, devices, canes, Louis Braille commemorative coins, jewelry, and other items will be available. Also in the Showroom of Innovation you can preview the nonvisual interface technology that might empower driving and other advanced applications. Put your hands on the wheel, touch the first generation blind driver challenge vehicle, and glimpse into the future. Be part of the revolution as we Race for Independence. Hours of operation for the Market and the Showroom are: Sunday 9:00 am to 5:00 pm Monday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Tuesday Noon to 1:45 pm Wednesday Noon to 1:45 pm—Note: Final time slot to visit Independence Market and Showroom of Innovation. MEETINGS General sessions of the convention convene at 9:00 am in the Chantilly Ballroom, Tower lobby on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. The convention adjourns promptly at 5:00 pm on Thursday, July 8. Please note that all requests for announcements by Dr. Maurer during general sessions must be submitted in Braille. BANQUET AND BANQUET TICKET EXCHANGE The banquet is being held in the Chantilly Ballroom, Tower lobby at 7:00 pm, Thursday, July 8. Banquet tickets purchased at convention are $45.00 (the cost was $40 if purchased before May 31) and are on sale during registration on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. Banquet tickets will not be available for purchase after Tuesday at 2:00 pm. It will be necessary to have your banquet ticket with you to attend the banquet; it will be collected at the banquet table. Arrangements should be made for reserved table assignments by taking the ticket(s) you purchase to the Banquet Exchange Table in the Chantilly lobby area, where you may exchange either an individual ticket or a group of tickets for reserved seating. Banquet tables seat ten people. RELIGIOUS SERVICES AND DEVOTIONS On Sunday, July 4, Fr. Gregory Paul, C.P., will celebrate a Roman Catholic Mass at 6:30 am in the Wedgwood Room, Tower lobby. Also on Sunday at 11:45 am services for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will be held in the Wedgwood Room, Tower lobby. Devotional services will be held in the Sapphire Room, Tower lobby at 8:00 am on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Services are nonsectarian and will end at least fifteen minutes prior to morning convention sessions. Coordinated by the National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith Division; Tom Anderson, President. K-NFB’S BLIO READER MAKING BOOKS ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Printed books are becoming digital and accessible. Blio is free e-reader software designed for presentation of digital media. Developed and distributed by K-NFB Reading Technology, Inc., shop at the online Blio bookstore with access to over one million free books. Read wherever you are by syncing your digital library to your mobile device. To learn more, visit the demonstration sessions listed in the agenda on Saturday, Sunday, and Wednesday. SPECIAL ATTENTION IS CALLED TO THE FOLLOWING ITEMS • A Federation Information Desk will be in the registration area from Sunday morning, July 4, through Thursday, July 8, if you have questions or need assistance. The Texas affiliate will also maintain a table near the hotel checkin desk in the main lobby to provide assistance and hospitality during much of the convention. • When you register, you will be given a name badge. Please wear it at all times during the convention. • The room number for the Presidential Suite is 2572. Someone will be on hand in the Presidential Suite throughout most of the convention to greet you and make appointments for you with the President or anyone else you wish to see. The Presidential Suite will not be open during the business sessions of the convention, the Monday morning Board of Directors meeting, or the Thursday evening banquet. Come to the Presidential Suite. You will be most welcome. • The room number for Mary Ellen Jernigan, Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities, is 2472. Questions concerning hotel rooms, meeting rooms, banquet, scheduling, registration, and other matters dealing with convention arrangements should be referred to the Chairwoman of Convention Organization and Activities. • Individuals needing to conduct business with the NFB Treasurer may do so by going to the Opal Room, Tower lobby on Tuesday, July 6, between 5:30 and 7:30 pm, or on Wednesday, July 7, between 12:00 noon and 2:00 pm. • The Texas Suite (Angela Wolf, President) is 2272. • The Affiliate Action and Rookie Activities Suite (Joanne Wilson and Pam Allen, Coordinators) is 2372. • Child-care services for children between the ages of six weeks and ten years are available during convention sessions, most meetings, and the banquet. Preregistration and payment by June 15 were required for child-care. Child-care is organized and supervised by Carla McQuillan, the executive director of Main Street Montessori Association. Alison McQuillan serves as the activities and staff coordinator. Please note that child-care provides morning and afternoon snacks, but parents are required to provide lunch for their child(ren) every day. Times listed are the opening and closing times for child-care. A late fee of $10 per quarter-hour per child will be assessed for all late pickups. Child-care hours are: Saturday, 7/3 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Sunday, 7/4 Closed Monday, 7/5 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Tuesday, 7/6 9:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Wednesday, 7/7 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Thursday, 7/8 8:30 am to 12:30 pm and 1:30 to 5:30 pm Banquet 7/8 6:30 pm to 30 minutes after banquet ends • A Special Evening for Sponsor-Level Exhibitors: Again this year, the exhibit hall will reopen from 7:00 to 10:00 pm on Tuesday, July 6, for a very special evening dedicated solely to Sponsor-Level Exhibitors. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. • The always popular Showcase of Talent is back again at 7:00 pm on Wednesday, July 7, presented by the Performing Arts Division. Admission price is $5.00. If you would like to participate in the Showcase, make sure to sign up early by contacting a Performing Arts Division board member at the convention. • Raffle tickets will not be sold in the registration area, and no raffles or other such drawings will take place during convention sessions or at the banquet. The single exception to this rule will be that national divisions may (if they request it in advance) conduct such drawings during the convention or at the banquet. The Sapphire Room, Tower lobby will be set aside at 12:00 noon on Thursday, July 8, for all other drawings. Any group or affiliate wishing to conduct drawings at this time (or any person wishing to know the winners) may go at noon on Thursday to the Sapphire Room. AFFILIATED DIVISIONS, COMMITTEES, AND GROUPS The Federation carries on its business through divisions, committees, and groups. The meetings of some of these have been scheduled for particular times and are listed in the agenda. Others have not been formally scheduled but will meet at the call of their chairpersons or presidents. If you have matters that you would like to discuss with any of the following divisions, committees, or groups, you should contact: Divisions: • Agriculture and Equestrian: Fred Chambers, President; • Assistive Technology Trainers: Michael Barber, President; • Classics, Antiques, and Rods or Special Interest Vehicles (CARS): Joseph B. Naulty, President; • Deaf-Blind: Burnell Brown, President; • Diabetes Action Network for the Blind: Michael Freeman, President; • Human Services: David Stayer, President; • National Association of the Blind in Communities of Faith: Tom Anderson, President; • National Association of Blind Entrepreneurs: James R. Bonerbo, President; • National Association of Blind Lawyers: Scott LaBarre, President; • National Association of Blind Merchants: Kevan Worley, President; • National Association of Blind Office Professionals: Lisa Hall, President; • National Association of Blind Piano Technicians: Don Mitchell, President; • National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals: Melody Lindsey, President; • National Association of Blind Students: Arielle Silverman, President; • National Association of Blind Veterans: Dwight Sayer, President; • National Association of Guide Dog Users: Marion Gwizdala, President; • National Association to Promote the Use of Braille (NAPUB): Nadine Jacobson, President; Divisions, Continued: • National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science: Curtis Chong, President; • National Federation of the Blind Krafters: Joyce Kane, President; • National Federation of the Blind Seniors: Judy Sanders, President; • National Organization of Blind Educators: Sheila Koenig, President; • National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC): Carol Castellano, President; • Performing Arts: Dennis H.R. Sumlin, President; • Public Employees: Ivan Weich, President; • Science and Engineering: John Miller, President; • Sports and Recreation: Lisamaria Martinez, President; • Travel and Tourism: Don Gillmore, President; • Writers: Robert Leslie Newman, President. Committees: • Ambassadors: Angela Wolf, Chairperson; • Blind Educator of the Year Award: David Ticchi, Chairperson; • Committee on Assistive Technology (COAT): Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Committee on Automobile and Pedestrian Safety (CAPS): Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Committee to Empower Underserved Populations (CEUP): Ron Brown, Chairperson; • Cultural Exchange and International Program: Diane McGeorge, Chairperson; • Distinguished Educator of Blind Children Award: Cathy Jackson, Chairperson; • Employment: Buna Dahal, Chairperson; • Genetic Education: Barbara Pierce, Chairperson; • Imagination Fund: Parnell Diggs, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Award: Ramona Walhof, Chairperson; • Jacobus tenBroek Memorial Fund: Tami Jones, Chairperson; • Kenneth Jernigan Fund: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Library Services: David Hyde, Chairperson; • Loan Fund: Donald C. Capps, Chairperson; • Membership: Ron Gardner, Chairperson; • Newel Perry Award: Allen Harris, Chairperson; • Newsletter Publications: Norma Crosby, Chairperson; • NFB-NEWSLINE® Steering: David DeNotaris, Chairperson; • PAC Plan: Scott LaBarre, Chairperson; • Planned Giving: John Halverson, Chairperson; • Promotion, Evaluation, and Advancement of Technology: Gary Wunder, Chairperson; Committees, Continued: • Public Relations: Christopher Danielsen, Chairperson; • Research and Development: Curtis Chong, Chairperson; • Resolutions: Sharon Maneki, Chairperson; • Scholarship: Anil Lewis, Chairperson; • Shares Unlimited in NFB (SUN): Sandy Halverson, Chairperson; • Spanish Translation: Norman Gardner, Chairperson; • White Cane and Affiliate Finance: Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson. Groups: • Blind Musicians: Linda Mentink, Chairperson; • Blind Parents: Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson; • Blind Professional Journalists: Elizabeth Campbell and Bryan Bashin, Co-Chairpersons; • Educators of Blind Children: Gail Wagner, Chairperson; • Geordi's Engineers: Lorraine Rovig, Chairperson; • Legislative Initiatives Discussion: Don Burns, Coordinator; • Living History: Michael Freholm, Chairperson; • NFB Ham Radio: D. Curtis Willoughby, Chairperson; • NFB in Judaism: David Stayer, Chairperson; • NFB Lions: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota, Co-Chairpersons; • Orientation and Mobility: Edward C. Bell, Chairperson; • Professionals in Blindness Education: Heather Field, Chairperson • Webmasters: Gary Wunder, Chairperson. CONVENTION AGENDA SATURDAY, JULY 3, 2010 7:30 - 8:45 am—HAM RADIO GROUP EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS Milan Room, Tower mezzanine Discuss convention frequencies, hotel architectural features, and distributing special FM receivers for the hearing-impaired and Spanish-speaking attendees. D. Curtis Willoughby (ka0vba), Chairperson 7:30 am - 6:30 pm—EDUCATION: TOP DOWN AND BOTTOM UP Parent, Teacher, Rehabilitation, and Orientation & Mobility Joint Conference for Families and Rehabilitation Professionals (7:30 to 8:45 am—Registration; 12:00 noon - 2:00 pm—NBPCB Awards Luncheon in Morocco Room) Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby NOPBC Fees: Adults $30; Youth (13-18) $20; Children (5-12) $10 NBPCB Fees (includes lunch): Students $75; Professionals $100 Note: Conference admission included with either registration above. Sponsors: National Organization of Parents of Blind Children (NOPBC); National Blindness Professional Certification Board (NBPCB); National Association of Blind Rehabilitation Professionals (NABRP); and the Professional Development & Research Institute on Blindness (PDRIB) at the Louisiana Tech University. Chairpersons: Carol Castellano and Edward Bell 8:30 am—CHILD-CARE (Preregistration by June 15 was required) Batik A & B and Cardinal A & B Rooms, Atrium Mezzanine Please see “Special Attention” section of agenda for further information. 8:30 - 11:30 am—WHAT’S NEW IN JAWS 11 AND A FIRST LOOK AT JAWS 12—FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC, INC. Senators Lecture Hall, Tower lobby Join Eric Damery, JAWS Product Manager, for an exciting and informative session covering the new details surrounding JAWS development during the past year. In addition to many demonstrations of JAWS 11 with Research It, this will also be the first look at JAWS 12 scheduled for public beta in August 2010. 9:00 am - 12:00 noon—GW MICRO: SENSE NOTETAKER AND BOOKSENSE TRAINING (Registration: $10; refreshments provided) Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine The Braille Sense Plus and other Sense notetakers are exciting devices in Braille notetaker technology. Learn new features, including the GW Sense Navigation GPS. See the BookSense in action; play your books and audio files with ease. Raul Gallegos and Jeremy Curry. To register, call 260-489-3671. SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE’S ACCESS TECHNOLOGY SEMINARS Governors Lecture Hall, Tower lobby 9:00 - 11:30 am—Apple’s Mac system, iPod series, iPhone, and iPad 1:00 - 2:00 pm—Ebay’s accessibility improvements 2:15 - 3:30 pm—Blackboard Learn, the online platform for education 3:45 - 5:00 pm—Accessing e-Books rapidly expanding market 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE SEMINAR Rosetta Room, Atrium mezzanine 9:00 am–Registration; 9:30 am–Seminar begins Staying on the cutting edge—what does it take? If you are seeking a job or focused on career advancement, don't miss this excellent opportunity to explore the building blocks of evolutionary employment. Buna Dahal, Chairperson 9:30 am - 2:30 pm—SENIORS SEMINAR: INTRO TO BLINDNESS SKILLS Sapphire Room, Tower lobby Please note—attendance is limited to around thirty-five people, so arrive promptly. Blind instructors introduce seniors to basic blindness skills: Braille, use of the long white cane, games, etc. Co-chaired by Ruth Sager and Ramona Walhof; Judy Sanders, President, NFB Seniors Division 10:30 am - 12:00 noon—“WHERE PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE COME TOGETHER”—NFB YOUTH TRACK (AGES 11 TO 18) Wyeth Room, Atrium mezzanine Kick off this year’s Youth Track activities with fun icebreakers and meet new friends. This is also a time for youth to debate the age-old issues of blindness while putting a fresh new spin on them for today. All Youth Track activities are sponsored by the NFB Jernigan Institute; Mary Jo Hartle, Coordinator 12:45 - 1:45 pm—WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE DISCUSSIONS—SESSION ONE (Session Two: Sunday at 5:30 pm; Session Three: Monday at 7:30 pm) Wyeth Room, Atrium mezzanine Session One covers research, history, and our literature. Moderated by Mark A. Riccobono, Executive Director, NFB Jernigan Institute SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued 1:00 - 3:00 pm—FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC; OPENBOOK 9 AND PEARL PORTABLE READING SOLUTION Senators Lecture Hall, Tower lobby Have lightning fast OCR with OpenBook in a portable solution that folds up. Connect via a USB port and scan documents. Have them read aloud using Eloquence voices or any of Real Speak Solo Direct human-sounding voices now available on OpenBook. Magnify work, write under the camera, and reformat text. 1:00 - 5:00 pm—HUMANWARE PRODUCT SHOWCASE AND USER GROUPS Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine Sessions: 1:00 Breeze; 2:00 Portable Devices; 3:00 Stream; 4:00 BrailleNote Join HumanWare to learn about recent updates and share product tips. Give us your suggestions or ask questions about your favorite HumanWare product. Door Prizes for every session! 1:00 - 6:00 pm—KRAFTERS DIVISION CRAFT SHOW Topaz Room, Tower lobby If you are interested in crafts and appreciate hand-made items, this is the place to be! Come and meet some very talented Federation crafters and purchase their beautiful items for sale. Joyce Kane, President 1:30 - 2:45 pm—EXPERIENCE THE BLIO READER: MAKING THE WORLD’S BOOKS ENJOYABLE, USABLE, AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Presented by James Gashel. 2:00 - 3:00 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS The Conquest of Independence Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Helpful strategies for raising and working with a young blind child. Instructor: Carla McQuillan The Blind Student in Science Class Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Tools and techniques to include blind students in all aspects of science. Instructors: Cary Supalo, Dr. Lillian Rankel, Marilyn Winograd, and Dr. Andrew Greenberg SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, Cont’d. Braille Reading Rates Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine Your child can become a Braille-reading speed demon! Instructors: Jerry Whittle and Dr. Eric Vasiliauskas Let Your Child Grow Up! Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine When is the right time to begin stepping back as a parent? Instructors: Rosy Carranza and Andrea Beasley 2:00 - 5:00 pm—GOAL BALL; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Gym, Verandah area Lisamaria Martinez, President 2:00 - 5:00 pm—GW MICRO: WINDOW-EYES TRAINING (Registration: $10; refreshments provided) Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine Explore the power of Window-Eyes with advanced scripting support, Office 2010, Windows 7, and much more. Come to see support for the Internet and scripting provided by a screen reader. Presenters: Jeremy Curry and Raul Gallegos. To register, call 260-489-3671. 2:00 - 5:00 pm—YOUTH TRACK CONCURRENT WORKSHOP SESSIONS Preparing for the Future: Wyeth Room, Atrium mezzanine 2:00 - 3:30 pm—High School Readiness (ages 11-14) 3:30 - 5:00 pm—College Readiness (ages 14-18) Working Out Workouts: Travertine Room, Atrium mezzanine 2:00 - 3:30 pm—For ages 14-18 3:30 - 5:00 pm—For ages 11-14 Looking Good without Looking: Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine 2:00 - 3:30 pm—For ages 14-18 3:30 - 5:00 pm—For ages 11-14 SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued 3:00 - 4:30 pm—TEACHER RECRUITMENT INITIATIVE Affiliate Action Suite 2372 If you are interested in improving the education of blind students, please join us. Learn how to contact universities in your area, put on recruitment presentations, and spread the word about this rewarding career. Hosted by the NFB Affiliate Action Team 3:00 - 4:45 pm—EXPERIENCE THE BLIO READER: MAKING THE WORLD’S BOOKS ENJOYABLE, USABLE, AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Presented by James Gashel. 3:15 - 4:15 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS ABC and 1, 2, 3 Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Early literacy and number understanding at home and at school. Instructors: Heather Field and Stephanie Kieszak-Holloway I Survived Math Class Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Tips to ensure your child understands, keeps up with, and even learns to love math. Social Skills Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine Strategies for fostering the development of age-appropriate social skills. Instructors: Denise Mackenstadt and Angela Frederick Low Vision: Focus on Success Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine Prepare your low vision child for success in school, at home, and in social life. Instructors: Marla Palmer and Mark Riccobono 4:30 - 5:30 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS Get Your Child Going! Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine Enhance and promote independent movement in the young or delayed child. Instructor: Denise Mackenstadt SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS, Cont’d. Technology Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Available technology; hear from students on how they employ it. Instructors: Richard Holloway and blind students Behavior: From Control to Support in Five Easy Lessons Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Steps to turn problem behavior into positive behavior. Instructor: Dr. Jerry Petroff Is Your Child Job Ready? Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine Learn how your child can gain experience and skills. 5:00 - 7:00 pm—SPANISH SEMINAR Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Blindness is blindness, no matter what the language. Meet new and old friends; learn about Federation philosophy and the truth about blindness—in Spanish. Moderator: Alpidio Rolón 5:00 - 8:00 pm—MIX-AND-MINGLE RECEPTION FOR PARENTS AND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS Morocco Room, Tower mezzanine 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS (NAGDU) BUSINESS MEETING Emerald Room, Tower lobby 6:00 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Find out about legal cases that NAGDU and NFB are involved in; learn about the work and development of affiliate divisions; celebrate the launch of the NAGDU Education and Advocacy Hotline; elect your division leaders. Marion Gwizdala, President SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued 6:30 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND OFFICE PROFESSIONALS Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine 6:30 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Learn about new technology and how blind telephone operators, receptionists, customer service reps, Braille transcribers and proofreaders, and other office workers solve problems and challenges in the office setting. Lisa Hall, President 7:00 - 8:30 pm—LIVING HISTORY GROUP Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Dedicated to recording, preserving, and appreciating Federation history. Michael Freholm, Chairperson 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NOPBC FAMILY HOSPITALITY NIGHT Miro Room, Tower mezzanine Relax and chat in an informal atmosphere. This is a great opportunity for new families to meet and connect with others. Veteran parents will be on hand to welcome and provide information. 7:00 - 10:00 pm—INDEPENDENCE SCIENCE, LLC FOCUS GROUP ONE Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine (Preregistration by May 15 was required to attend.) Independence Science LLC, in collaboration with Purdue University researchers, is collecting feedback on a new portable handheld data collection device for blind students to use in high school science laboratories. (Focus Group Two meets Monday at 7:00 pm) 7:30 - 9:00 pm—knfbReader MOBILE USERS MEETING Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine Conducted by Michael Hingson 7:30 - 11:00 pm—SALSA DANCE LESSIONS AND LATIN DANCE PARTY Metropolitan Ballroom, Tower mezzanine Get into the “rhythm” of the convention—learn the salsa! Group and individual instructions provided at any level of proficiency. Fee of $5.00 benefits the NFB Spanish Translation Committee. Add salsa dancing to your repertoire; people will be impressed. SATURDAY, JULY 3, Continued 8:00 - 9:00 pm—WHITE CANE AND AFFILIATE FINANCE COMMITTEE Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Alpidio Rolón, Chairperson 8:00 - 10:00 pm—NFB LIONS GROUP Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine NFB members who would like to join a Lions Club or are already Lions are urged to meet to share ideas and experiences. Please wear your shirts or vests for a photo. Co-Chairpersons: Ramona Walhof and Milton Ota 8:00 - 10:00 pm—ROOKIE ROUNDUP RECEPTION Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby First-time convention attendees—don’t miss this event! President Maurer and former rookies will be on hand to welcome you and answer questions about the week’s activities. Casual dress. Coordinator: Pam Allen, Director of the Louisiana Center for the Blind and President of the NFB of Louisiana 8:00 pm - midnight—KARAOKE NIGHT?? (Admission: $5.00) Peacock Terrace, West Wing Enjoy music, door prizes, and a cash bar; meet BLIND, Incorporated’s students and alumni and share their experiences from training. Here’s your chance to sing like a rock star; Braille song lists are available. Hosted by BLIND, Inc. 9:00 - 10:00 pm—NFB AMBASSADORS COMMITTEE MEETING Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine Angela Wolf, Chairperson SUNDAY, JULY 4, 2010 6:30 - 7:30 am—ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS Wedgwood Room, Tower lobby Father Gregory Paul, C.P., Celebrant 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET AND BARBEQUE TICKET SALES ($45 EACH); Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby 9:00 am - 5:00 pm—INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND SHOWROOM OF INNOVATION—Grand Ballroom, Atrium lobby 9:00 am 5:00 pm—EXHIBITS—Khmer Pavilion, Atrium, third level 11:45 am - 1:15 pm—CHURCH SERVICES FOR THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS Wedgwood Room, Tower lobby 1:00 - 2:00 pm—BLIND MUSICIANS GROUP Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Share ideas and tips and network with other blind musicians. Linda Mentink, Chairperson 1:00 - 5:00 pm—SELF-DEFENSE CLASS; SPORTS & REC DIVISION De Soto A & B Rooms, West Wing Lisamaria Martinez, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—AUTO SHOW (CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND SPECIAL INTEREST VEHICLES) Clock Tower Parking Lot Presented by the NFB CARS Division; Joe Naulty, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION—SECTIONS ONE AND TWO Governors Lecture Hall, Tower lobby Participants must have preregistered. Exam sections three and four are on Monday at 1:00 pm. Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board SUNDAY, JULY 4, Continued 1:00 - 6:30 pm—PROFESSIONALS IN BLINDNESS EDUCATION Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Heather Field, Chairperson 1:30 pm—RESOLUTIONS COMMITTEE Coronado Ballroom, West Wing Sharon Maneki, Chairperson 1:30 - 2:45 pm—EXPERIENCE THE BLIO READER: MAKING THE WORLD’S BOOKS ENJOYABLE, USABLE, AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Presented by James Gashel 2:00 - 4:30 pm—OPEN BRAILLE INITIATIVE Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine To make access to Braille easier, a group of prominent Braille device manufacturers have come together to develop and maintain an Open Standard for communications between screen readers and Braille displays. Do you want to know more? Join us for the OpenBraille initiative presentation. 2:30 - 5:30 pm—TRAVEL AND TOURISM DIVISION Milan Room, Tower mezzanine Don Gillmore, President 3:00 - 4:45 pm—EXPERIENCE THE BLIO READER: MAKING THE WORLD’S BOOKS ENJOYABLE, USABLE, AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Presented by James Gashel 3:00 - 5:00 pm—WHAT’S NEW WITH NFB-NEWSLINE® Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine Learn about the NFB’s free audible newspaper service for the blind and visually impaired. Topics cover Podable News, the new voices, the new on-demand article request feature, and more. Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at its exhibit hall table. 4:00 - 5:30 pm—SLATE MATES—NFB YOUTH TRACK (Ages 11-18) Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Pair up with members of the NFB Writers Division to learn the tricks of the trade to become a good writer. Bring your questions, and put your interests to work. SUNDAY, JULY 4, Continued 4:00 - 6:00 pm—FEDERATION REGENERATION Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine Learn how to develop quality programs for youth in your state while regenerating your Federation spirit. Presented by the NFB Jernigan Institute Education Team 4:30 - 6:00 pm—THIRTEENTH ANNUAL MOCK TRIAL—National Association of Blind Lawyers; Scott LaBarre, President Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby Admission: $5.00. Federation lawyers are pitted against each other reenacting an old Federation case with the audience serving as the jury. Although the subject matter is very serious, the courtroom portrayers are very entertaining. 5:30 - 6:30 pm—WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE DISCUSSIONS—SESSION TWO (Session Three: Monday at 7:30) Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine Session Two covers access technology and product development. Moderated by Mark A. Riccobono, Executive Director, NFB Jernigan Institute 5:30 - 8:00 pm—NEWSLETTER PUBLICATIONS COMMITTEE Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine Annual meeting and workshop for affiliate newsletter editors. Norma Crosby, Chairperson 6:00 - 8:00 pm—STORY TIME IDOL—NFB WRITERS DIVISION Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Tell and/or listen to tall and scary stories. Cost is $5.00 at the door and $1.00 to tell a story. Idol winners share in the take! Robert Leslie Newman, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND STUDENTS (NABS) Wedgwood Room, Tower lobby 6:00 pm–Registration ($5.00); 7:00 pm–Meeting Students, young professionals, parents, teachers, and anyone interested in learning about issues affecting blind students are welcome to attend. Arielle Silverman, President SUNDAY, JULY 4, Continued 6:30 - 8:00 pm—NFB AFFILIATE PRESIDENTS AND TREASURERS SEMINAR Rosetta Room, Atrium mezzanine All affiliate presidents and treasurers are asked to attend this session. Topics include internal controls, state charitable registrations, end-of-year preparations, and discussing individual state issues with facilitators Charlie Brown, Ron Gardner, Bridgid Burke, and Nick Lambright 7:00 - 8:30 pm—MEET THE BLIND MONTH ACTIVITIES AND OTHER SPECIAL EVENTS SEMINAR: PLANS AND ACTION EQUAL SUCCESS Manchester Room, Tower mezzanine October is “Meet the Blind Month.” Come and brainstorm with us as we look for fresh ideas for Meet the Blind Month! Learn new fundraising ideas, and get your chapter ready to change public perceptions of blindness. Karen Zakhnini, NFB Jernigan Institute 7:00 - 8:30 pm—PUBLIC EMPLOYEES DIVISION Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Ivan Weich, President 7:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND VETERANS Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine Discussing plans to increase our division membership in the coming year and holding elections. Dwight Sayer, President 7:30 - 9:30 pm—MEMBERSHIP COMMITTEE: FINDING, ATTRACTING, AND KEEPING NEW MEMBERS IN OUR CHAPTERS AND AFFILIATES Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine Success only comes before work in the dictionary. Let’s discuss creative ideas to increase our membership. Ron Gardner, Chairperson 7:30 - 9:30 pm—LIBRARY SERVICES COMMITTEE Milan Room, Tower mezzanine David Hyde, Chairperson 7:30 - 9:30 pm—BLIND PARENTS GROUP Travertine Room, Atrium mezzanine Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson SUNDAY, JULY 4, Continued 8:00 - 9:00 pm—JUDAISM MEETING Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine David Stayer, Chairperson, NFB in Judaism Group 8:00 - 9:30 pm—WEBMASTERS MEETING Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine A meeting for all NFB affiliate and division Webmasters to discuss the importance of an informative, accessible, and visually attractive Website. Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Webmasters Group 9:00 - 10:00 pm—SPANISH TRANSLATION COMMITTEE Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine Norman Gardner, Chairperson MONDAY, JULY 5, 2010 8:30 am - 5:00 pm—INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND SHOWCASE OF INNOVATION—Grand Ballroom, Atrium lobby 8:30 am 5:00 pm—EXHIBITS—Khmer Pavilion, Atrium, third level 8:30 am - 5:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET AND BARBEQUE TICKET SALES ($45 EACH); Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby 9:00 11:30 am—NFB BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING (Open to all) Chantilly Ballroom, Tower lobby 12:00 noon - 1:15 pm—THE DIVISION FOR ME—NFB YOUTH TRACK Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine Meet-and-greet with division representatives to discover the NFB’s dynamic and diverse divisions. Chat with knowledgeable reps about what’s happening now in their divisions and what’s in the works for the future. Our divisions are progressive—join up and join in the fun. 12:00 noon - 2:00 pm—FIRST-TIME NFB CONVENTION ATTENDEES Affiliate Action Suite 2372 Is this your first National Federation of the Blind convention? If so, please bring your own lunch and participate in a fun gathering; meet some friendly people and have your convention questions answered by experienced Federationists. 12:30 - 5:00 pm—DIABETES ACTION NETWORK (DAN) SEMINAR Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine 12:30 pm–Registration; 1:00 pm–Meeting begins Learn about research updates on the use of insulin pens by Dr. Ann Williams, strategies to get medical insurance providers to cover diabetes management equipment accessible to the blind, and more. Mike Freeman, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS (NABL) L’Entrecote Room, Atrium lobby 12:30 pm - Registration; 1:00 pm - Meeting begins Examine laws affecting blind people and others with disabilities; address ongoing struggles to gain equal access to Web sites, employment, legal texts and exams. Scott LaBarre, President MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NFB IN COMPUTER SCIENCE Rosetta Room, Atrium mezzanine 12:30 pm–Registration; 1:00 pm–Meeting begins Some of the topics include: the Macintosh as a productivity tool for the blind; Solona, a CAPTCHA-solving service; Association of Information Technology Professionals presentation; accessibility to Microsoft’s products by its director of accessibility, Rob Sinclair; elections; and much more. Curtis Chong, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF THE BLIND IN COMMUNITIES OF FAITH Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine 12:30 pm–Registration; 1:00 pm–Meeting begins The theme is “Meeting Challenges: Gaining Opportunities.” Speakers tell how their faith has helped them face and overcome challenges; also hear representatives from various faith-based libraries and publishing houses describe what their organizations do. Tom Anderson, President 12:30 - 5:00 pm—SPORTS AND RECREATION DIVISION ANNUAL MEETING Coronado Ballroom, West Wing 12:30 pm–Registration; 1:00 pm–Meeting begins Wear your sweats and come ready for hands-on presentations, audible darts, and more! Lisamaria Martinez, President 1:00 3:00 pm—PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE MEETING & SEMINAR Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine Don't wait for the media to discover you—come and share ideas and strategies on how to harness the power of the media! Topics: crafting press releases, pitching stories, and giving informative interviews. Chris Danielsen, Chairperson 1:00 - 4:00 pm—PERFORMING ARTS DIVISION Travertine Room, Atrium mezzanine General meeting with elections, an introduction to our new state divisions, and speakers. Dennis H.R. Sumlin, President 1:00 - 4:15 pm—NOPBC DIVISION ANNUAL MEETING: ISSUES AND ADVANCES IN EDUCATION Sapphire Room, Tower lobby Carol Castellano, President MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:00 - 4:30 pm—NOPBC ACTIVITIES FOR MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOLERS 1:00 - 2:30 pm—Diggin’ Into Science (ages 11-14) Miro Room, Tower mezzanine Hands-on science fun with instant snow, magnets, volcanoes, etc. Instructors: Dr. Lillian A. Rankel and Marilyn Winograd, with assistance from chemists Cary Supalo and Dr. Andrew Greenberg 3:00 - 4:30 pm—Peer-to-Peer Technology (ages 11-18) Milan Room, Tower mezzanine Calling all geeks to expound on technology you love and love to hate. Moderators: Jeremiah Beasley and John Fritz 3:00 - 4:30 pm—The Future Is Here in Science (ages 14-18) Miro Room, Tower mezzanine Hands-on chemistry activities; understanding chemical phenomena. Instructors: Dr. Lillian A. Rankel, Marilyn Winograd, Cary Supalo, and Dr. Andrew Greenberg 1:00 - 4:30 pm—NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLIND EDUCATORS Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine 1:00 pm–Registration; 1:30 pm–Meeting begins Blind teachers discuss techniques they use in their classrooms; participants also meet in groups specific to grade level and content areas of interest to create a network of mentors. If you teach or are considering a career in teaching at any level, please join us. Sheila Koenig, President 1:00 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND MERCHANTS REVOLUTIONIZING RANDOLPH-SHEPPARD: CREATING NEW, ROBUST, AND DIVERSE SMALL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE BLIND De La Salle Room, West Wing 1:00 pm–Registration; 1:30 pm–Meeting begins The title says it all. Let’s continue to protect and defend the Randolph-Sheppard Program. The need to expand business opportunities and to develop new business initiatives for the blind of America is pressing. At Your Service, Kevan Worley, President MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL CERTIFICATION IN LITERARY BRAILLE (NCLB) OFFICIAL EXAMINATION—SECTIONS THREE AND FOUR Governors Lecture Hall, Tower lobby Participants must have preregistered. Sponsored by the National Blindness Professional Certification Board 1:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND REHABILITATION PROFESSIONALS Madrid Room, Tower mezzanine 1:00 pm–Registration; 2:00 pm–Meeting begins Network, share mutual interests, find placement strategies, and examine and discuss concerns and current issues. Melody Lindsey, President 1:00 - 5:00 pm—“SENIORS IN CHARGE”—NFB SENIORS DIVISION MEETING AND (SOMEWHAT) SILENT AUCTION Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine Join us to hear enthusiastic seniors share ideas about what they are doing; find out ways to spread our message of hope to seniors who have recently become blind. And then, of course, we are also having our very popular not-so-silent auction. Judy Sanders, President 1:00 - 6:00 pm—HUMAN SERVICES DIVISION Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine 1:00–Registration; 2:00–Meeting begins; 5:00—Mingle and network Psychologists; social workers; counselors; and music, art, or dance therapists meet to discuss topics and network. David Stayer, President 1:30 3:00 pm—CULTURAL EXCHANGE AND INTERNATIONAL PROGRAM COMMITTEE Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine Diane McGeorge, Chairperson 1:30 - 4:30 pm—WRITERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Update members on division business, announce the 2010 winners of the youth and adult writing contests, visit with a published author and member of the NFB, and plan for the future. Robert Leslie Newman, President MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 3:00 - 5:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND PIANO TECHNICIANS Wedgwood Room, Tower lobby Piano tuning has long been considered one of the stereotypical career choices for the blind. Is this true? What can we do about it? Don Mitchell, President 5:00 - 6:30 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND LAWYERS (NABL) RECEPTION L’Entrecote Room, Atrium lobby For NABL members and seminar participants only to promote networking and fellowship within our membership. Hors d'oeuvres and cash bar available. Scott LaBarre, President 5:00 - 7:00 pm—BRAILLE BOOK FLEA MARKET De Soto A & B Rooms, West Wing A book lover’s dream! Browse tables of new and used Braille and print/Braille books. UPS volunteers will ship the books to your home free of charge. Donations requested to support the Braille Readers are Leaders program. Cosponsored by NOPBC and NAPUB. Coordinator: Peggy Chong 5:30 - 7:00 pm—KURZWEIL 1000 USERS’ CONTINGENT Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine Join the Kurzweil 1000 Users’ Contingent! Meet with Steve Baum, Vice President of Engineering, and share some Kurzweil 1000 experiences. Kurzweil 1000 is our state-of-the-art, text-to-speech and life navigation software for blind and visually impaired readers. 6:00 - 9:00 pm—INDOOR ROWING; SPORTS & REC DIVISION Coronado Ballroom, West Wing Lisamaria Martinez, President 6:00 - 10:00 pm—BACK TO BASICS: FOUNDATIONS IN MEMBERSHIP AND CHAPTER DEVELOPMENT Sapphire Room, Tower lobby Topics: running a purposeful chapter meeting, building membership, community projects and chapter fundraising, working with youth, and weaving Federation philosophy into local meetings. Presented by the NFB Affiliate Action Team MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 6:00 - 10:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF GUIDE DOG USERS (NAGDU) SILVER ANNIVERSARY CELEBRATION AND SEMINAR Emerald Room, Tower lobby 6:00 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Seminar begins Join us in celebrating twenty-five years of education and advocacy on behalf of guide dog users, recognize our founders and past leaders, initiate future projects, and “test drive” a guide dog! Marion Gwizdala, President 6:30 - 9:30 pm—SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING DIVISION Wyeth Room, Atrium mezzanine 6:30 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins John Miller, President 6:30 - 10:00 pm—ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY TRAINERS DIVISION Manchester Room, Tower mezzanine 6:30 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Topics: determining the right note taker for your student; plunging without fear into Windows 7 with Cathyanne Murtha of Access Technology Institute; Jsay Pro; and teaching the Mac. Michael Barber, President 7:00 - 8:30 pm—“BROKEN-HEARTED RIVER TO FREEDOM” a play by Jerry Whittle (Admission: $5.00; Second Performance is at 9:00 pm) Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby A man loses his sight during the Civil War, returns home, and learns to deal with his blindness and family. The play is performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players; proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. 7:00 - 9:00 pm—CLASSICS, ANTIQUES, AND RODS (CARS) DIVISION SEMINAR AND BUSINESS MEETING Obelisk B Room, Atrium mezzanine Come and hear speakers from automobile clubs talk about their activities and participate in the division business meeting. Joseph B. Naulty, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—COMMITTEE TO EMPOWER UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine Ron Brown, Chairperson MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO PROMOTE THE USE OF BRAILLE (NAPUB) SEMINAR Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine Hear about the remaining commemorative Louis Braille silver dollars and how to get one, NFB Share Braille Website, and more. Nadine Jacobson, President 7:00 - 10:00 pm—INDEPENDENCE SCIENCE FOCUS GROUP TWO Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine (Preregistration by May 15 was required to attend.) Independence Science LLC, in collaboration with Purdue University researchers, is collecting feedback on a new portable handheld data collection device for blind students to use in high school science laboratories. 7:30 - 8:30 pm—ME AND THE GOSSIP GIRLS—NFB YOUTH TRACK Dardenelles Room, Atrium mezzanine–Ages 11-14 Inverness Room, Atrium mezzanine–Ages 14-18 Girls—bring your questions and thoughts about makeup, dating, or how to get more involved in your school. Discussions will be led by blind mentors. Parents, please respect this is for teens only! 7:30 - 8:30 pm— ME AND THE GUYS—NFB YOUTH TRACK Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine–Ages 11-14 Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine–Ages 14-18 Guys—talk about cars, dating, school, or how to nail that perfect job to make a little extra money. Discussions will be led by blind mentors. Parents, please respect this is for teens only! 7:30 - 8:45 pm—WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? NFB JERNIGAN INSTITUTE DISCUSSIONS—SESSION THREE Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine Session Three covers education programs. Moderated by Mark A. Riccobono, Executive Director, NFB Jernigan Institute 7:30 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE FOR THE PROMOTION, EVALUATION, AND ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY Travertine Room, Atrium mezzanine Hear exhibitors explain briefly what they are exhibiting and where they are located in the exhibit hall. We will also evaluate the effectiveness of what our Committee is doing now and consider programs for the coming year. Gary Wunder, Chairperson MONDAY, JULY 5, Continued 8:00 - 9:00 pm—FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Library Room, Tower mezzanine All convention delegates involved in or interested in twelve-step recovery programs are invited to attend. A second Friends of Recovery meeting will be on Wednesday at 8:00 pm. Coordinator: Gary Ray 9:00 - 10:30 pm—“BROKEN-HEARTED RIVER TO FREEDOM” a play by Jerry Whittle (Admission: $5.00) Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby A man loses his sight during the Civil War, returns home, and learns to deal with his blindness and family. The play is performed by the Louisiana Center for the Blind Players; proceeds go to the Louisiana Center for the Blind’s summer training program for blind children. TUESDAY, JULY 6, 2010 8:00 - 8:45 am—DEVOTIONS Sapphire Room, Tower lobby 8:15 8:45 am—REGISTRATION ($20); BANQUET AND BARBEQUE TICKET SALES ($45 EACH)—Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby OPENING GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:35 am WELCOMING CEREMONIES 9:55 am CELEBRATION OF FREEDOM: VETERANS RECOGNIZED Dwight Sayer, President, National Association of Blind Veterans, National Federation of the Blind; Winter Gardens, Florida 10:05 am A DEFENSE DEPARTMENT PRIORITY FOR BLIND WOUNDED WARRIORS Colonel Donald Gagliano, M.D., Executive Director, Department of Defense/Department of Veterans Affairs Vision Center of Excellence; Washington, D.C. 10:20 am ROLL CALL OF STATES AND APPOINTMENT OF NOMINATING COMMITTEE 11:45 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20); FINAL BANQUET TICKET SALES ($45)—Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND SHOWROOM OF INNOVATION—Grand Ballroom, Atrium lobby TUESDAY, JULY 6, Continued 12:00 noon 1:45 pm—EXHIBITS—Khmer Pavilion, Atrium, third level 12:15 - 1:45 pm—LOUISIANA CENTER FOR THE BLIND ALUMNI LUNCHEON; Pam Allen, Director Peacock Terrace, West Wing GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm PRESIDENTIAL REPORT, Marc Maurer 3:00 pm THE FEDERATION IN THE WORLD FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE BLIND CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER AND SENATOR IN THAILAND Monthian Buntan, Senator; Bangkok, Thailand 3:20 pm THE BLIND DRIVER OPERATING A VEHICLE AT SPEED: CREATING THE TECHNOLOGY THAT PUTS THE CONTROLS UNDER OUR HANDS Parnell Diggs, Esq., Coordinator, Race for Independence; President, National Federation of the Blind of South Carolina; Garden City, South Carolina 3:35 pm SWEP AND THE BARS OF OUR PRISON Scott LaBarre, Esq., LaBarre Law Offices; President, National Federation of the Blind of Colorado; Denver, Colorado 3:50 pm THE XAVIER SOCIETY FOR THE BLIND: SERVING THE BLIND SINCE 1900 Father John R. Sheehan, S.J., Chairman, Board of Directors, Xavier Society for the Blind; New York, New York 4:05 pm ONE MILLION BOOKS FOR THE PRINT DISABLED AND MORE TO COME Brewster Kahle, Digital Librarian; San Francisco, California TUESDAY, JULY 6, Continued 4:20 pm NOT JUST SURVIVING THE DISASTER OF SEPTEMBER 11 BUT PROVIDING LEADERSHIP IN A DEADLY EMERGENCY Michael Hingson, President, Michael Hingson Group; Novato, California 4:35 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 5:00 pm ADJOURN 5:30 - 6:30 pm—NOMINATING COMMITTEE De La Salle Room, West Wing 5:30 - 6:30 pm—NFB-LINK, OUR ONLINE MENTORING PROGRAM Affiliate Action Suite 2372 Come help us honor the over 250 mentors that are a part of NFB-LINK and learn how you can become a mentor, too. NFB-LINK is our online mentoring program, and by becoming a mentor, you will see how a little time on the computer can make a huge difference. Current and future mentors, please attend! 6:00 pm—NFB OF TEXAS BARBEQUE AND LIVE MUSIC Anatole Park Enjoy eating a delicious Texas-style barbeque with all of the trimmings while listening to the music of singer/songwriter/guitarist Brian Burns, with friends Tommy Alverson and Davin James. 6:00 - 8:00 pm—AMERICAN FOUNDATION FOR THE BLIND INTRODUCES AccessWorld EVERY MONTH AND NEW ONLINE COMMUNITY RESOURCES Peacock Terrace, West Wing You are invited to our informational reception. Announcing AFB AccessWorld, every month—more authors, more information, more often. CareerConnect, FamilyConnect, and SeniorSite offer newly-expanded opportunities. Network with families, seniors, and successful mentors. We look forward to meeting you. TUESDAY, JULY 6, Continued 6:00 - 9:00 pm—DEAFBLIND DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING & ELECTIONS Obelisk B Room, Atrium mezzanine 6:00 pm–Registration; 7:00 pm–Meeting begins Burnell Brown, President 6:30 - 8:00 pm—MUSIC TECH WORKSHOP Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine Conducted by Cameron Strife; presented by the NFB Performing Arts Division 6:30 - 9:00 pm—COLORADO CENTER FOR THE BLIND OPEN HOUSE Topaz Room, Tower lobby Discover how good training can change your life. Julie Deden, Director 7:00 - 8:00 pm—ASTRONOMY AT YOUR FINGERTIPS (Ages 6-14) Morocco Room, Tower mezzanine Fun-filled astronomy-related activities in an out-of-this-world workshop! Instructor: Noreen Grice 7:00 - 8:30 pm—BOOKSHARE AT NFB MEMBER PARTY Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine Enjoy snacks and refreshments while meeting the Bookshare staff. This is your opportunity to talk with us and share your ideas; we’re here to listen. Plan to have fun with contests, drawings, and interacting with your fellow members. We look forward to seeing you. 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS IEP Workshop for Beginners Madrid Room, Tower mezzanine Focusing on evaluations, goals, strategies, and the law. Instructor: Carlton Walker Getting to Yes Manchester Room, Tower mezzanine Getting the team to work together so that it benefits your child. Instructor: Dan Frye Tactile Maps and the Development of Spatial Awareness Milan Room, Tower mezzanine Exploring ways to promote the development of spatial awareness. Instructor: Debbie Kent Stein TUESDAY, JULY 6, Continued 7:00 - 9:00 pm—NFB KRAFTERS DIVISION BUSINESS MEETING Fleur-de-lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine Unveiling new craft initiatives, including discussion on classes available via telephone conference and information on our Monday night nationwide chats. We are seeking teachers and students for crafting classes. Joyce Kane, President 7:00 - 9:00 pm—LEGISLATIVE STRATEGIES SEMINAR: MOVING LEGISLATION ON THE STATE AND NATIONAL LEVEL Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine Each affiliate should send one representative. Learn the best methods of increasing support for our legislative priorities. Changing lives through laws is our business. Led by Jesse Hartle, Lauren McLarney, and Ronza Othman 7:00 - 10:00 pm—A SPECIAL EVENING FOR SPONSOR-LEVEL EXHIBITORS Khmer Pavilion, Atrium, Third Level The exhibit hall reopens for an evening dedicated solely to sponsor-level exhibitors. Come and bring a guest to say “thank you” to our sponsors and to enjoy their interesting offers and demonstrations. Our convention sponsors are: Title: Deque Systems, Inc.; Platinum: HumanWare and UPS; Gold: Freedom Scientific and Oracle; Silver: Adobe; Bronze: National Industries for the Blind (NIB); and Exhibit Hall: En-Vision America, GW Micro, Inc., Independence Science, LLC, Independent Living Aids (ILA), Intel Corporation, Olympus, Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D), Sendero Group, and Vanda Pharmaceuticals, Inc. 7:00 - 10:00 pm—THE BEST THROWBACK PARTY AND DANCE EVER! NFB YOUTH TRACK (Ages 14-18) Metropolitan Ballroom, Tower mezzanine Choose your favorite decade and come dressed in your best digs. Compete in hula hoop contests, learn the “YMCA,” or show us your best moon walk while dressed as the late Michael Jackson in the 80’s. Prizes will be given to the best-dressed or most creative throwback participants. 8:00 - 9:00 pm—BEP: U.S. CURRENCY IDENTIFICATION FOCUS GROUP Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine Representatives of the U.S. Dept. of the Treasury’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) and the Office of Product Development provide an update on BEP’s progress to provide blind individuals with access to U.S. currency and discuss concepts it is currently testing. (Session Two: Wednesday at 7:00 pm.) TUESDAY, JULY 6, Continued 8:00 - 9:00 pm—PERFORMING ARTS DIVISION SEMINAR Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine A seminar on division development; discuss the future of the Performing Arts Division and ways to make it even better. Conducted by division board member, Jordy Stringer. Dennis H.R. Sumlin, President 8:30 - 9:30 pm—HOW TO HOLD A VOTER REGISTRATION DRIVE IN SIX EASY STEPS Edelweiss Room, Atrium mezzanine Learn how to plan and host a voter registration drive that will attract new members to your chapter and serve your local community. Coordinator: Lou Ann Blake, NFB Jernigan Institute 8:30 - 10:00 pm—NOPBC CONCURRENT SESSIONS FOR PARENTS IEP Workshop for Veteran Parents Madrid Room, Tower mezzanine Instructor: Carlton Walker Testing and Accommodations Manchester Room, Tower mezzanine Instructors: Barbara Mathews and a representative of the College Board Adapting and Creating Useable Materials for Students Milan Room, Tower mezzanine Instructor: Pat Renfranz WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, 2010 8:00 - 8:45 am—DEVOTIONS Sapphire Room, Tower lobby 8:15 8:45 am—REGISTRATION ($20)—Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am ELECTIONS 9:50 am THE APEX AND OTHER DEVELOPMENTS AT HUMANWARE Gilles Pepin, Chief Executive Officer, HumanWare; Drummondville, Canada 10:10 am THE FAILURE OF THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN MEETING THE NEEDS OF THE BLIND MARK RICCOBONO, Moderator; Executive Director, National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute; Baltimore, Maryland SHEILA AMATO, Ed.D., University Teacher Trainer; Massapequa Park, New York NOREEN GRICE, Founder and President of You Can Do Astronomy, LLC; New Britain, Connecticut LAURA WEBBER, Secretary, National Organization of Parents of Blind Children; Houston, Texas ERIC VASILIAUSKAS, M.D., parent and advocate; Los Angeles, California 11:10 am ASSURING INTERNET ACCESSIBILITY Preety Kumar, Chief Executive Officer, Deque Systems, Inc.; Reston, Virginia WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 11:30 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN 12:00 noon 12:30 pm and 1:30 - 2:00 pm—REGISTRATION ($20) Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—INDEPENDENCE MARKET AND SHOWROOM OF INNOVATION (Final time period to be open)—Grand Ballroom, Atrium lobby 12:00 noon 1:45 pm—EXHIBITS—Khmer Pavilion, Atrium, third level GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm FINANCIAL REPORT 3:05 pm STRATEGIC INITIATIVES REPORT John Paré, Executive Director for Strategic Initiatives, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland Jesse Hartle, Governmental Affairs Specialist, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland Lauren McLarney, Governmental Affairs Specialist, National Federation of the Blind; Baltimore, Maryland 3:35 pm REPORTS, RESOLUTIONS, AND OTHER BUSINESS 5:00 pm ADJOURN WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 7:00 - 8:00 pm—BEP: U.S. CURRENCY IDENTIFICATION FOCUS GROUP Steuben Room, Atrium mezzanine Representatives of the U.S. Dept. of the Treasury’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) and the Office of Product Development provide an update on BEP’s progress to provide blind individuals with access to U.S. currency and discuss concepts it is currently testing. 7:00 - 8:15 pm—EXPERIENCE THE BLIO READER: MAKING THE WORLD’S BOOKS ENJOYABLE, USABLE, AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Presented by James Gashel 7:00 - 8:30 pm—NFB IMAGINATION FUND GRANT-WRITING SEMINAR Fleur-de-Lis B Room, Atrium mezzanine Each affiliate should send at least one representative to this seminar. Learn to plan, write, and submit a strong grant application; discover key points and strategies about how to identify appropriate funders and submit a winning proposal. Mark A. Riccobono, Executive Director, NFB Jernigan Institute 7:00 - 9:00 pm—WHAT’S NEW WITH NFB-NEWSLINE® Lalique Room, Atrium mezzanine Learn about the NFB’s free audible newspaper service for the blind and visually impaired. Topics cover Podable News, the new voices, the new on-demand article request feature, and more. Sign up for NFB-NEWSLINE® at its exhibit hall table. 7:00 9:00 pm—“SOCIAL SECURITY AND SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME: WHAT APPLICANTS, ADVOCATES, AND RECIPIENTS SHOULD KNOW” SEMINAR Sapphire Room, Tower lobby Topics: Social Security and SSI benefits, including eligibility criteria, the application process, reporting obligations, and appeals process. Also get information on the Medicare prescription drug benefit income subsidy program. Presenter: Ronza Othman WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 7:00 10:00 pm—EXHIBITS—Khmer Pavilion, Atrium third level 7:00 - 11:00 pm—TENTH ANNUAL SHOWCASE OF TALENT—Fee: $5.00 Stemmons Auditorium, Atrium lobby Register early by contacting Performing Arts Division leaders at the convention by Tuesday. Proceeds benefit the division’s scholarship program and other programs. Sponsored by the Performing Arts Division; Dennis H.R. Sumlin, President 7:00 - 11:00 pm—NON 24-HOUR SLEEP WAKE DISORDER SEMINAR Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine Circadian rhythm sleep disorders in totally blind people. Total loss of light perception prevents synchronization of circadian body clock rhythms to the 24-hour day, leading to cyclic insomnia and daytime napping. The causes of this sleep disorder and possible treatment options will be presented and discussed. 7:30 - 9:00 pm—INTRODUCTION TO ORACLE SIEBEL CALL CENTER Obelisk B Room, Atrium mezzanine Don Mauck, Accessibility Evangelist at Oracle, will demonstrate the accessibility features built into the Oracle Siebel Call Center. Oracle CRM products are used by more than 4,000 enterprises and more than 4.6 million business users; these enterprises represent potential employment opportunities for the blind. 8:00 - 9:00 pm—FRIENDS OF RECOVERY MEETING Library Room, Tower mezzanine All convention delegates involved in or interested in twelve-step recovery programs are invited to attend. Gary Ray, Coordinator 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON AUTOMOBILE AND PEDESTRIAN SAFETY (CAPS); Deborah Kent Stein, Chairperson Fleur-de-Lis A Room, Atrium mezzanine 8:00 - 10:00 pm—COMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT Rosetta Room, Atrium mezzanine For the most part, technological developments tend to exclude blind people. Developers must change the ways future technologies are designed. Join us—perhaps you can suggest a technology or approach that nobody else has considered. Curtis Chong, Chairperson WEDNESDAY, JULY 7, Continued 8:00 - 11:30 pm—MONTE CARLO NIGHT Metropolitan Ballroom, Tower mezzanine Try your luck at any of the usual card games found on a casino floor. Sponsored by the National Association of Blind Students 8:30 - 9:45 pm—EXPERIENCE THE BLIO READER: MAKING THE WORLD’S BOOKS ENJOYABLE, USABLE, AND ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE! Peridot Room, Atrium mezzanine Presented by James Gashel THURSDAY, JULY 8, 2010 8:00 - 8:45 am—DEVOTIONS Sapphire Room, Tower lobby 8:15 8:45 am—REGISTRATION ($20)—Final opportunity to register. Chantilly Foyer Area, Tower lobby GENERAL SESSION 9:00 am INVOCATION 9:05 am BUYING AND SELLING ONLINE: EBAY BUILDS ACCESSIBILITY FOR THE BLIND INTO ITS PLATFORM Dane Glasgow, Vice President, Buyer Experience Product Management, Ebay, Inc.; San Jose, California 9:20 am BRAILLE IS LITERACY Deane Blazie, Inventor; Hobe Sound, Florida 9:35 am EIGHTY-FOUR LANGUAGES AND GROWING Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. David Fernandez-Barrial, Foreign Language Librarian, National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress; Washington, D.C. 9:55 am QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION 10:00 am EDUCATING BLIND CHILDREN: CHANGING THE PARADIGM Fredric K. Schroeder, Ph.D.; Research Professor; San Diego State University; Vienna, Virginia 10:20 am TOWARD FULL EMPLOYMENT FOR BLIND AMERICANS Lynnae Ruttledge, Commissioner, Rehabilitation Services Administration, United States Department of Education; Washington, D.C. THURSDAY, JULY 8, Continued 10:35 am ACCESSIBLE EDUCATION FOR ALL, INCLUDING THE BLIND: MEETING THE STANDARD Jessica Finnefrock, Senior Vice President, Product Development, Blackboard; Washington, D.C. 10:50 am ACCESSIBLE DESIGN, A MODEL FOR THE FUTURE Steve Eastman, President, Target.com; Minneapolis, Minnesota 11:05 am LOCATION-BASED SERVICES USING BUS STOP AND GEOCODED MEDIA CONTENT Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California 11:20 am BLIND CAR BUILDER? WE’RE HERE TO TELL YOU! Marcus Simmons, Chief Executive Officer, Simmons BOSS CREATIONS; Southfield, Michigan 11:35 am REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS 12:00 pm ADJOURN 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—HAM RADIO GROUP BUSINESS MEETING Milan Room, Tower mezzanine D. Curtis Willoughby (ka0vba), Chairperson 12:00 noon - 1:45 pm—RAFFLES AND DRAWINGS Sapphire Room, Tower lobby 12:15 - 1:45 pm—EVERYTHING YOU'VE EVER WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE NLS Obelisk A Room, Atrium mezzanine A question-and-answer session with Frank Kurt Cylke, Director, and staff of the National Library Service for the Blind and Physically Handicapped, Library of Congress. THURSDAY, JULY 8, Continued GENERAL SESSION 2:00 pm CALL TO ORDER 2:05 pm COPYRIGHT AND THE RIGHT TO READ Marybeth Peters, Esq., Register of Copyrights, Library of Congress, Copyright Office; Washington, D.C. 2:20 pm THE FUTURE OF BOOKS AND BEYOND Ray Kurzweil, President and Chief Executive Officer, K-NFB Reading Technology, Inc.; Wellesley Hills, Massachusetts 2:40 pm CALLING ALL DRIVERS: ADVANCING LEADERSHIP, COLLECTIVE ACTION, AND THE BOUNDARIES OF INDEPENDENCE Mark Riccobono, Executive Director, National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute; Baltimore, Maryland 3:00 pm THE INTERFACE THAT TOUCHES THE MIND: ADVANCING BEYOND AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES Dennis Hong, Ph.D., Director, Robotics and Mechanisms Laboratory, Virginia Polytechnic Institute; Blacksburg, Virginia 3:15 pm A PRACTICING BLIND PHYSICIAN Timothy Cordes M.D./Ph.D., Resident in Psychiatry, University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics; Madison, Wisconsin 3:30 pm DR. JACOB BOLOTIN AWARD Gary Wunder, Chairperson, Dr. Jacob Bolotin Award Committee, and Secretary, National Federation of the Blind; Columbia, Missouri 4:10 pm DISABILITY POLICY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE Kareem Dale, Special Assistant to the President on Disability Policy; Washington, D.C. 4:25 pm REPORTS AND RESOLUTIONS THURSDAY, JULY 8, Continued 5:00 pm ADJOURN 7:00 pm—BANQUET Chantilly Ballroom, Tower lobby INVOCATION MASTER OF CEREMONIES: Fredric K. Schroeder INTRODUCTIONS AND PRESENTATIONS BANQUET ADDRESS: Marc Maurer SCHOLARSHIP AWARDS 11:00 pm—SCIENCE FICTION MEETING All persons interested in science fiction and fantasy are welcome to join in an open discussion. Please contact Ed Meskys for room location. Thank You... The National Federation of the Blind acknowledges with gratitude our Title, Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, and Exhibit Hall Convention Sponsors below. Their messages follow. Title Sponsor: Deque Systems, Inc. Platinum Sponsors: HumanWare UPS Gold Sponsors: Freedom Scientific Oracle Silver Sponsor: Adobe Bronze Sponsor: National Industries for the Blind (NIB) Exhibit Hall Sponsors: En-Vision America GW Micro, Inc. Independence Science, LLC Independent Living Aids (ILA) Intel Corporation Olympus Recording for the Blind & Dyslexic (RFB&D) Sendero Group Vanda Pharmaceuticals, Inc. David Andrews: dandrews at visi.com Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/dandrews920 From kc2992a at student.american.edu Mon May 31 23:39:46 2010 From: kc2992a at student.american.edu (Katy Carroll) Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 19:39:46 -0400 Subject: [nabs-l] disability law programs Message-ID: Hi all, I remember someone not too far back asking which law schools have disability law programs. At the time, I only knew about Syracuse University and American University, but I recently found a directory of Disability Programs at law schools provided by the American Bar Association and thought I would share. The website is: http://new.abanet.org/disability/Pages/lawschools.aspx Enjoy! -- Kathryn CARROLL BlueLaw International LLP 703-647-7508 Cell: 631-521-3018